# 42 ttc naturally - anyone else?!



## Tess1

Hi
I am 42 and ttc naturally.  I sadly had a miscarriage in February following natural conception.  DH and I have looked into IVF but were told because my AMH is 3.2 we only have a 5% chance of success and we dont want to use donor eggs.  I would love to have contact with other woman who are in a similiar situation.  This is quiet a lonely process as we are private people and only a few close family members know so please get in touch and let me know your story xx


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## bizi5

Hi Tess
So sorry to hear about your mc   . I just wanted to say don't give up and also don't rule out IVF - my AMH is very low and yet I always responded adequately to IVF meds. Sadly our 3 cycles weren't successful, but you can see from my signature what happened after that!

I don't know where you are in the country but would recommend going for a consultation with an IVF clinic that has a lot of experience and good results with 40 somethings - I was at the Lister in London and they have the best success rates for over 40s in the UK. I couldn't recommend them highly enough (Jaya Parikh was our consultant).

You have got pg once and that is a very positive thing for your chances again.

Go for it and lots of luck!
xxx


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## Vaudelin

Tess - the fact that you have been pregnant in the past is a huge step in the right direction.  You have to believe that it can happen again.  If you do want to try IVF I would highly recommend the ARGC in London.  They didn't mention my age throughout my whole treatment!  I was just reading this morning about a lady on here who got pregnant naturally at 47 - now that really gave me hope!

xx


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## Tess1

Thankyou so much for your replys.  They do make me wonder if we have been too hasty with our decision on IVF and we are reconsidering.  The clinic we had our consultation in was Nurture in Nottingham and they are rated in the top 10 in the country for success.

I was wondering what supplements you would recommend to help.  I am taking bee pollen, Zita West fertility supplements and having acupunture.  I have heard about DHEA but havent tried it.  Anyone out there any advice or ideas?
thanks


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## catztayl

HI   

I just wanted to say that we're in the same situation, at the moment, trying to conceive naturally. Sadly, in two years of trying we haven't even had a hint of a BFP. We have just been referred to CARE at Manchester and am really not sure what to do yet.

As you say, it can be a very lonely journey. I'm in the position where nobody else knows in the family so it gets very hard trying to stay positive.

I'm sure we would all appreciate someone/somewhere to turn to when it gets tough.

Have you had any more thoughts on where you go next?

Judy


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## spin

Hi ladies - I too would highly recommend the argc in London. They are not fixated on peoples age - just your hormone profile - they like your fsh to be 10 or lower in order to be able to stimulate you effectively. After my last cycle with them I asked if I needed to move on to DE and was told "definately not - why would you want to do that when you have your own?" Althougth if you read my profile you will see I'm on my 7th attempt (2nd at argc) - I feel that in comparison the standard of treatment I received at my previous clinics was poor and a complete waste oftime, money and emotion. The clinic is open 7 days a week, including bank holidays so there is non of this nonsense about making your cycle fit around opening times - you get your egg collection when you follicles and hormone levels are at their optimum and it makes a massive difference to fertlisation rates - and hence quality of embryos to transfer. 

At our age we don't have time to mess around - so go straight to the best and ignore the rest!

Hopefully next Friday I will be able to post a BFP and it will give a big boost to all the other ladies trying over 40...

Spin x

ps I have also heard good reports about the Lister - but have not been myself


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## hopehopehope

tess - i agree with all the other posts. i was given 5% by one clinic, then another gave me an 11.8 if i went to 3 day enbryo transfer and 25% if i made it to 5 days. 
Also , you'll see form my sig, that i had my AMH re tested and it had DOUBLED in 14 months!!! i just had ivf  for the first time and yes, they only got one embryo to put back, but it's a shot at it. 
Also i started with a very expensive london clinic, but swapped mid cycle to reprofit which was half the price and even less if i go again - this will enable us to have 4 goes. After he looked at my eggs and embryo he said that i should have 3 more goes if this doesn't work before moving on to donor eggs if i want.


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## elinor

Hi Tess (and everyone else)

thought I'd post a quick reply, since although I am not ttc naturally that's mainly because I am single!

I have moved on to a DE cycle, but after various things I ended up giving up on IVF (similar odds quoted to you last year) January 2009. I had just had a third biochemical, after a miscarriage my first go in 2006 and could not cope with the physical, emotional and financial strain. However, I was not ready (despite AMH 3.4) to give up on my body. I tried stimulated IUI cycles for a few months - so as near 'natural' as it was possible for someone needing donor sperm to go. I figured that at over 40 they reckon about one egg in 5 is viable, so a mildly stimulated cycle producing 2 (or 3 if I was very lucky) follicles gave me at least some chance. My last couple of IVFs I had only got a couple of eggs, down regulating made me feel vile and I needed huge doses of stims. On much lower doses I got a couple of good follicles each time, and on the third go got pregnant. Unfortunately I miscarried jsut after 10 weeks, but I did manage to get pregnant (age 41).

I was quoted something like 5% odds for IVF, and IUI at 6 or 7% (IUI was a third of the drugs, a third of the cost, fewer scans and bloods... big part of the expense was for donor sperm 'slot' and you wouldn't have that part to count in...).

If you don't have tubal issues (and you got pregnant quite recently so I assume not), then this might be worth considering if you feel full IVF is not for you (or not for you at the moment).

It's also worth thinking about what you want in the long term - do you want a child anyhow? your 'own' child? do you have a financial 'limit' to how much you can fund? would you consider treatment abroad? (some places do tandem cycles - where you get IVF yourself but there is also a donor, so even if you don't produce many eggs, or if they fail to fertilise, their are donor eggs as 'back up') or DE or adoption? I know I tried the IUI and said I'd give it 3 or 4 shots on consecutive cycles, then take a break. I also wanted to do something rather than just sit on a waiting list for a DE cycle (though I am happy to have had that opportunity - I know I would welcome a baby if it were genetically 'mine' or not).

One test result isn't everything - AMH can give an indication, but there are folk on the 'poor responders' board who have good AMH and hormone profiles that look ideal on paper, but just in practice IVF doesn't work so well for them. Others have poor hormone results and then do much better than expected when it comes to having a cycle of treatment.

Lots of folk on 'poor responders' speak highly of the Lister in London (they also get better results for 40+ than many clinics) and having tried a few things over the years I _really_ recommend seeing more than one clinic, and judging on more than just results. Clinics can get 'good' results a number of ways: by discouraging some women from even trying with their own eggs; by having shorter 'waiting times' for those who have succeeded before; by not dealing with non-standard situations - I know there are some that get really great results but have cut-offs with AMH or FSH (or both!) - of course they are going to look better on paper than those willing to try with women whose hormone profile isn't excellent. I was particularly impressed with my current clinic because I didn't feel they were pushing me to a particular line of treatment because it suited _them_, but because they listened to _me_. They were willing to try IVF (despite 4 failed cycles - so not a great bet for helping their stats), they didn't give me false hope, but they didn't snatch it away either. They also didn't rule out IUI, and didn't insist that if I was on the DE waiting list I had to wait and not try anything else (some clinics - esp NHS - are like that).

Anyway, sorry to waffle on. Trying au naturel is definitely worth it, but you do have other options you can explore - good luck with whatever you decide to do!
best wishes
Elinor x


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## elinor

Ok here goes:

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=217901.0

this is the thread I was talking about. Hope the link works! It goes back a while, but gives a pretty thorough explanation (and parts of it sound like it might be similar for you).

best wishes
Elinor x


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## Tess1

Thank you so much for all your replys.  My DH and I decided to give up trying two months ago and then my following cycle I was 5 days late - I presumed I was pregnant and wasnt and was devastated.  I then realised I am not ready to give up and want to keep trying.  Each month is so difficult when my period comes and each month I am getting older! My friend works in marketing for IVF in Australia and she has told me to give up, at my age the chances of becoming pregnant are so slim and even if I did the baby is likely to have something wrong with it.  My brain tells me that is probably sound advice but my heart wants a baby.  I wish there was someone I could talk to who is in the same situation, I really appreciate your replys.  Any updates for any of you? x


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## bizi5

Hi Tess
I do think that 'the time to give up' is different for different people and you can only make that decision for yourself (your friend in Australia cannot decide it for you   ). I think there is a lot to be said for one's peace of mind/ability to move on to whatever next step/stage feels right by feeling that you did everything you could and tried all the possible options that felt right before feeling ready to decide to stop. And of course, maybe one of those options would work and you would not need to make that decision     . You know that the odds are not great, so your eyes are wide open to the facts, but that does not mean there is no hope of a successful pregnancy.
I am only 1 year younger than you, with an AMH of 0.7ng mol and now 28 weeks pg - a little natural miracle after our 3 failed ICSI cycles. 
I think my advice would be that if you are not ready to stop just yet, then just go for a consultation at one of the recommended clinics for over-40s (I'd still plug the Lister as the best one in the UK     - if you do, suggest you see Drs Parikh, Faris or Taylor) and then see what your options are. 
If you ever want to chat in real life, just PM me and I will give you my number   .
xxx


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## Vaudelin

Tess - I agree with Bizi - only you can make the decision and I would say follow your heart.  I know I am not ready to give up yet!  I still have hope and I still feel positive even though I have never ever seen those elusive two lines.  My acupuncturist has a client who has just fallen pregnant naturally for the first time at 47 - now that gave me hope!   

Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## bizi5

Loads of luck and   to you too, Vaudelin
xxx


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## little lebowski

Hi Tess
At nearly 42, having TTC naturally for 5 yrs (charting & temping), let down by the NHS after waiting for a year to be seen then told at 38 I was too old for IVF on the NHS. After scrimping & saving, I have just had a miscarriage after our first IVF attempt at a private clinic, I am devastated but it seems I just cannot give up & don't see why I should. I am a young 42 and in good health and I am not ready to give up, its too important to me and my partner. The day after the miscarriage, I ordered:
Clearblue Fertility Monitor
NHP Fertility Plus for Women Nutritional Supplement
Pre-seed Vaginal Lubricant
Getting Pregnant - Faster by Marilyn Glenville
Taking Charge of Your Fertility: The Definitive Guide to Natural Birth Control, Pregnancy Achievement and Reproductive Wealth.

Good luck & don't give up until you're sure you're ready to.
x


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## Tess1

Thank you so much for your replies.  They are a great encouragement.  

I have the clearblue monitor, pre-seed, books, acupuncturist, so we will stay trying for the moment.  I think if treatments weren't sooooo expensive we might try a London clinic, but trying to persuade my DH with such low odds would be challenging now that I have already told him that I don't think we should.  In the back of my head though, I would like to try it although I know I would take any disappointment quite hard - have to balance if it is worth putting us through that. Anyhow, fingers crossed for this month, monitor is telling me I am ovulating at the moment! Please pray for us! x


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## bizi5

Loads of luck, Tess - go for it. The reason I suggested going for a consultation in London is that your odds may not be as bad as you have been quoted in the past......
xxx


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## Trolley

Hi Ladies can I join you please . . . I will be 42 in October and we are back to TTC naturally following 1 misc. and 2 x failed cycles of IVF.

Hope you are all handling it better than me - the PMA is starting to wear out and I'm having a tough time.

No money eft for IVF sadly albeit my consultant said my chances were 1% so donor egg was his suggestion but, again, we don't have the funds :0(

Hope you have great weekends planned

T


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## Vaudelin

Hi Trolley - I think you are on the other thread I am on - 2ww TTC naturally. 

I am in a similar position as you - we can't afford to try IVF again so are leaving in the lap of the gods so to speak.  I have been using immune drugs this month but still no luck.  Am off to see an immune specialist in a couple of weeks to see if he has any other bright ideas that my clinic hasn't thought of.

Wishing everyone lots of luck this month.  I am going to have a few glasses of wine tonight to celebrate the imminent arrival of AF!!!  (I know I am DEFINITELY not pregnant).

xxxx


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## soozywong

Hi


I hope you don't mind if I join in this thread; I have just heard this morning that my AMH has dropped from 10.2 last September to 3.6 now.  I just don't understand how it can change so quickly if it's meant to be a predictor of ovarian reserve.  Doesn't make sense to me.  I'm 42 next week, and finding this all so hard.  About to embark on 2nd round of IVF (first round in Nov/Dec last year, BFN), but then got pg naturally last January and then m/c.  I'm on DHEA and was hoping that it would improve my AMH so can't believe it's dropped so much.  Feel devastated about it, but encouraged to read of others with lower AMHs who have got pg.  Like others on this thread, I just don't feel ready yet to let go of the dream of having our own baby.  But it is so so hard.


Really relate to a lot of what you are all saying.  I'm with the Lister as well who I have found to be very good; don't know what our chances are now with such a lowered AMH. I responded badly last time (although then 3 grade 1 embryos from 3 follicles).  But just have to remember it's the quality that counts, not quantity and have been doing everything I can think of - acupuncture, vitamins, eating healthily etc, to try and improve the quality.


Anyway, thanks for reading.


Susanna


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## Trolley

Hi Susanna,

Feel for you honey - we all have such different stories but are feeling the same angst :0(

The good thing is that you are not alone and this is the place to be when you want to talk as you can guarantee that we all feel your pain.

Vaudelin - enjoy the vino!

I have had a rotten week so can't wait for the weekend - had a nightmare trying to sort a mortgage out and stress at work so all of this on top of hankering for a baby bump has been too much for my brain this week and has left me feeling very sorry for myself.

As hard as it is we musn't give up hope as miracles do happen and there is no reason why it can't happen for any (or all!) of us . . . 

Have a lovely relaxing weekend girls

T


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## soozywong

Thanks Trolley, it is just so hard to keep going with the PMA isn't it, I am really struggling with it all, as have always wanted to have kids but just met my man late in life and nearly all my close friends have got them. But as you say it does help to talk to other people in the same situation.

Have a good weekend too everyone.

Susanna


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## little lebowski

Hi All
After my recent IVF experience I am not convinced that the AMH test is particularly reliable. Test 1 February (9.3) Test 2 July (1.5) - a re-test of the 9.3 sample came up with a different result (7). Hardly scientific!

At the risk of going slightly off topic, hope no-one minds - has anyone considered natural IVF? I've just started looking into this at the moment as Plan B - Plan A is still TTC naturally (clinic called Create in London). Because natural IVF doesn't use drugs its slightly cheaper. I was really poorly on stimulated IVF and even worse since finishing the treatment. After 9 weeks am still having bleeding, headaches and hot flushes from the downregulation (Prostap) and ovary and back pain, I think this must be from the stimulation drugs. I've been advised this can last for another 6-8 weeks so its kind of put a stop on TTC naturally as the oestrogen depletion means no follicles and no ovarian function until my body recovers. The downside of IVF that no-one tells you about ...!


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## soozywong

Hi Little Lebowski,

Very strange to hear your varying AMH results - it doesn't make sense does it, if it's meant to be an indicator of ovarian reserve, why does it then change so much in a few months, just don't get it at all.

Re natural IVF I have heard it can be good for poor responders, as far as I understand they just work with your one natural egg from that cycle.  Sorry to hear you had such a bad time with reacting to the drugs.  It sounds like for your situation it may be worth trying, especially if you didn't respond very well to the drugs anyway. But others probably know more than me.  I'm still trying the normal IVF at the moment, as I didn't have bad side effects (although don't like at all the thought of pumping myself with loads of drugs).

Good luck and hope you can have a relaxing weekend.

Susanna


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## Trolley

Hi Ladies,

I have read lots of references to 'natural' IVF on FF but have no idea what it is . .  ?

Do any of you know much about it?

T


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## hopehopehope

Hllo everyone!! 

My AMH 'went up' from 3.4 in Dec 08 to 6.7 in Jan 10 I was told when i got the results for the first one that there was no need for a retest that they were always the same - wish i hadn't listened to them. 

i'm on natural 2ww at the moment after failed ivf abroad. Planning on anoher IVF abroad in october but imagine eggs at 42/43 are better conceived naturally in utero so to speak.


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## Vaudelin

Wow - I have never heard of natural IVF.  I presume it is much cheaper because of no drugs to stimulate?  

I haven't had my AMH tested for 18 months.  I am too scared to to be honest.  My acupuncturist said she does needles to help with it - it is just so frustrating getting AF every month and wondering what is wrong with my stupid body.

I am in similar position and met my DH late in life - I was 42 last month and feel that time is just running away with me.  We have to believe though and I still do have hope.   

  to everyone

xxxx


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## hopehopehope

Hey Vaudelin - hello!
I am 6 months older that you and know so much how you feel - i only got married in april and we have been trying for a year, (i did try with donor sperm for 6 cycles before this - so it's a year and a half of trying for me)
PLEASE ignore stats - after my first ivf my doc said that even though we only had one grade one embie  and it was a bfn we should try again another two times as the embryo quality was good.  So we are going to do this, and will prob move onto donor eggs if none of this works. 
However in the meantime i am trying to conceive naturally. 

I really hate the stress that is put on us ladies over our crappy eggs - my dh has low count and poor motility and he is still told it is ok ( the pooor male ego) whilst i seem to be told at every opportunity how it's all because of my old eggs. I actually think it is due to sperm dna fragmentation ( as well as my eggs)  but its another £400 to test and we just can't afford it. 

Don't be scared of amh retest - i was sooooo scared and they 'sprung' the results  on me when i wasn't expecting it (which was good) and mine had doubled in 14 months!!!! 3.4 up tp 6.7. SO it might be good news!! When i originally had my amh test they seemed to think that it was set in stone and told me not to retest at the time - i think they're now beginning to realise that lots of ladies have a natural 'range' of amh and that it does vary. But really - does having another amh test make any difference to your situation 

We've just got to find the energy from somewhere to carry on and not lose hope (difficult i know) - which is why this site is great, i really have been picked up by the ladies here when I most needed it. 
Good luck


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## Vaudelin

Hopehopehope

I didn't realise that AMH could go up - I just presumed it went down and further down!  I'm not sure knowing my results would make much difference to my situation to be honest.  If it had gone down I would be even more stressed than I am now if that is at possible!  

Yes there are lots of inspiring stories on this site.  I was just reading one a few mins ago about a lady who is 47 and has just fallen pregnant naturally!  She has 3 children already from her twenties but it is still amazing to hear and gives me that little bit of hope that I so desperately need.  I really worry I am going to turn into a bitter old woman with no children - I so don't want to be like that!!!  

Do you use any fertility monitors or OPKs?


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## Trolley

Hey Ladies I hope you all had good weekends!

Ues I met my husband later too but he is younger so I automatically presume that I' the problem even though we have both been told we are fine - who knows!

I use the Clearblue Ovulation calculator Vaudelin and it's really good!

Don't laugh - I saw a psychic yesterday . . .  she was very accurate and it gave me hope so worth the £25!

T


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## hopehopehope

I use the clearblue digital thingy with the smiley face (when i was doing iui it was the ONLY one the clinic would rely on other than a blood test)  I  also keep a close eye on CM. 

Have to say am desperate for a baby - 42 and childless is not the place i wanted to be 10 years ago   

Am lucky to have the bestest husband in the world though


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## soozywong

Hi

Really relate to what you're saying.  If someone had told me I was going to be 42 (tomorrow!) and have no kids 10 years ago - well, I'm just glad I didn't know.  I've always wanted them and sometimes wonder how I'll cope if I'm not able to have them - can't face just feeling sad for the rest of my life!

I think it is so stressful.  Just starting 2nd round of IVF, on pill, got scan tomorrow (just how I want to spend my birthday!) and then depending on the results of that, could start pretty soon. Must admiit with having low AMH test and DHEA obviously not working, not feeling very positive about it, but it only takes one...

I just use ov sticks and CM when it's doing its thing. I must admit that's getting less as well and that's another thing that's stressing me out.  

Oh it's so much fun isn't it!?

Good luck everyone.

Susanna


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## Vaudelin

Susanna - I think we all feel pretty much the same.  I have wanted children for as long as I can remember but never really found anyone who felt the same.  I did not want to get pregnant "accidentally" when I was younger and bring up a child with a partner who didn't want the child.  I could never do that.  I too now have a wonderful DH whom I met late in life and he feels the same as me - at last!  I still have hope but it is fading a bit I must admit.  Keeping up the PMA is hard.

Trolley - I believe in psychics!  Will you let us know if the prediction comes true?

I used to use the CB OPKs with the smiley face - used to make me smile as well   I use the CB Fertility Monitor now. 

Where is everyone on their cycles - I am only on CD4 so early days for me.

xxxx


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## Trolley

Day 12 for me so 7 days till ovulation . . . 

A miserable weather day here on the south coast!

T


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## Vaudelin

Trolley - you ovulate quite late then?

Whereabouts are you from on the south coast?  I live in London now but am from Dorset.


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## Trolley

I live in Eastbourne and yes I do ov late which I believe in the heart is my problem Vaudelin although my concerne fell on deaf ears with my consultant.  He just kept telling me that I was too old and that was that but I refuse to give up as friends of mine who are older have conceived naturally albeit it took them longer.

I have finally bitten the bullett and ordered some Agnus Castus las tnight to see if it helps with my progesterone.  My Kinesiologist warned me against it but I'm gonna give it a go.

Hope you are OK Soozywong

T


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## Vaudelin

Have you thought about acupuncture to help with ovulation?  Mine is just wonderful - she has helped lower my NK Killer cells and also lower my FSH.  I have never felt so healthy in my life - I love her!


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## Trolley

Yes I had some acu sessions when I was having IVF but stopped because of £££ - £40 a pop and I was going every week!  Need to ask DH if I can start again . . . I was SO relaxed and loved it too!


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## Vaudelin

Acupuncture can get expensive - I only have it once every three weeks now - would love to have it every week.  Mine costs £45 a session - it all adds up!  I am so lucky though as my acupuncturist also works for Zita West but I see her privately.  If I saw her at the Zita West clinic I think it is something like £75/85 per session!!!


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## Trolley

WOW Vaudelin that is fantastic!!!  I am going to contact mine (she works at the Kite Clinic in London as was trained by Gerald Kite - not sure if you saw the article in the Daily Mail about him) and see if I have to go every week if I'm not having TX.  I'm sure every 3 weeks would be fine for me too  . . .

Roll on 5.30 - I want to escape from the office!


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## Vaudelin

Well I was having acpuncture once a week before treatment, then twice a week during treatment and then after my BFN and the thousands of pounds that had effectively gone down the drain on ICSI I thought I want to continue with acu but just cut it back a bit.  I was totally upfront with my acupuncturist and explained it was purely financial.  She was very understanding and as I had told her I could only go every three weeks she could tailor my treatment accordingly. 

Yes I have heard of the Kite Clinic - I am pretty sure I looked at their website.  I only chose mine originally because of convenience (I am pretty lazy!) but got very lucky. 

Not long til 5.30!!!!!

xxxx


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## Trolley

That's what I think I will do.  She is fab so I'm sure that she will understand.

She works in London 3 days a week but luckily she lives near me so I see her on Saturday mornings.

Wish I could wave a wand for us all!

T


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## soozywong

Hi Trolley and Vaudelin
Hi Trolley and Vaudelin

You two have been busy!  How do you access it at work, I'm in a massive open plan office and people would see.  Had a quick look at my yahoo and saw there were loads of replies on this thread  but couldn't get them till got home.

Trolley, I live on the South Coast too, in Brighton.  Used to live in Dorset too, near Bridport.  Vaudelin, where are you from?

I have acupuncture as well, feel like it really helps, have it twice a month before ovulation and then nothing after it.  She's a fertilty specialist and says that what I need; although will have more when start doing IVF proper. Vaudelin, that's amazing having a Zita West acupuncturist.

I came across a good book the other day called The Fertility Plan, by Jill Blakeway and Dr Sami S David which seems to be a good mixture of Eastern and Western medicine.  Have also read Zita West's book and some of Randine Lewis's.  Keep seeing adverts for a couple of US books, one about how to get pg naturally over 40 and the Pregnancy Miracle, but can't decide whether it will teach me anything new.  Basically it seems to be herbs, acu, supplemetns and diet to improve quality from what I can see.  Have either of you used DHEA, that can help with spontaneous pg as well as IVF>

Anyway, better go and cook.

More later...

Sx


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## Trolley

Hi Soozywong,

I reduce the pink box and position it in the screen so people behind can't see it :0)

I was in Brighton last Saturday and we were meant to be there on Friday night but DH is exhausted so we have cancelled dinner with our friends as he is working all day Saturday again.

Never tried DHEA but seen on here that lots of people have.  I am going to try Agnus Castus first (even though my Kinesiologhist warned me against it) as I think it might help as I have a short luteal phase.

You are right about the books - there is only so much they can tell us . . .

Morning Vaudelin!

5 days till I OV and I better had this month!!

T


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## Vaudelin

Morning!  Or should I say afternoon...

I have had a look at The Fertility Plan but reading the reviews on Amazon people were saying that you should only buy it if you are newbie to IF.  The Zita West book pretty much covers everything - I can't think of anything else there is to know to be honest so I thought I would give it a miss as I have read Zita. 

I have never tried DHEA - my acupuncturist said not to touch it!  Lots of ladies on here have had success with it though...

I tried agnus castus for two months and I didn't ovulate for both of those months so it isn't for me.  I don't think I need it to be honest.  Anything is worth a try if you don't ovulate - got to get those eggs moving!  I don't really understand - if you don't ovulate then what happens to the eggs?


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## Trolley

UGH who knows Vaudelin . . . I do ovulate but I ov late in the month by which time my progesterone has left the building!

My acu described ovulation as a popcorn machine - each month some popcorn is thown up in th air - sometimes it's good and sometimes it's bad :0)

Enjoy your cooking Soozywong!

T


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## hopehopehope

Trolley - if you have a short luteul phase and you are trying to conceive naturally you should use cyclogest rogestoerone pessaries from when you ovulate to your period - they will give you the boost you need - get your GP to prescribe them. It is REALLY good that you have longer rather than shorted follicular phase - i ovulate on day 11/12 which gives very little time for the eggs to mature - i also have a really high E2 level on Day 3 (230) which is not good. 

i read a fantastic post by a guy who had been trying to grt bfp with wife in '80's with no luck, had realised about the short luteul phase - had no help or suggestions for docs and basically requested prog support - she got bfp the very next month. This seems ( to me) a far more accurate way than the agnus castus (though i did use AC for 2 months when i was 34 and had a bout of very heavy periods). 

I'm on day 22 of a 28 day cycle ( first AF after ivf bizarely ovualted on day 14 after 5 years of day 12 - hope that's good news!!)

i'm on DHEA (3 weeks now) and have had no adverse affects. ( asyet!!) Am hoping it's going to be my route to being a mummy      

Trolley - could you pm your Accupnuncturist contact details? My dh half lives in london and not sure that my ACP knows what she is doing (depsite fact she is chinese!!)

Hello Vaudelin and little lebowski!!

Soozywong - hope pill scan goes well


----------



## Trolley

Hi HopeHopeHope,

Yes I have some Cycl;ogest pessaries left over from my 2 x TX's so had wnated to use them last month . . . only for the first time I didn't ovulate!

Going to try them this month though - I am at a stage now where I am trying everything!!!

My acu works at the Kite Clinic in London but I see her here in East Sussex as she lives down this way.  I will send you a PM with her name and the details.

T
x


----------



## hopehopehope

thank you xx (most people don't ovulate a couple of times a year my doc told me) Keep positive, you're not on your own xx


----------



## Vaudelin

I read that post by the guy whose wife used the Cyclogest and got pregnant (twice) - gave me real inspiration and hope.

Soozy - forgot to say that I was born in Poole.  I love visiting Dorset and it will always be my "home" even though I have been in London 20 years now! 

Trolley - fingers crossed for ovulation this month.  We all have a month where the cycles go a bit loopy...

I'm supposed to be working by the way - my boss is on hols and it is soooooooooo quiet.  I flick the screen over to something work related if anyone walks past!!!


----------



## Trolley

So do I Vaudelin LOL!!!!!  Not in the mood today :0)

I also read the post by Bobbity and it gave me hope . . . just hope that if I run out of Cyclogest that my GP prescribes me with some.  I guess I could always offer to pay for a private prescription if he say no!

T


----------



## Vaudelin

If you have a sympathetic GP they might give you some Cyclogest.  Good luck.  If not, then could you maybe speak to your clinic and see if they will help?  My clinic have given me a prescription for immune drugs and Cyclogest to try naturally.  Not sure how many months they will do this for though.  I am hoping at least three.


----------



## Trolley

Well that's fab Vaudelin!

My clininc got rid of me as soon as they could sadly as my Consultant wrote me off at 39!  He couldn't wait to see the back of me.

My GP, however, is fab so I will give it a go should I need more . . . .

Something has to work surely!!!

T


----------



## bizi5

Trolley - read the rest of the thread started by Bobbity and you will see the details of how I used cyclogest on my natural cycle - did it differently to he and his wife ........... but it worked 3rd time   . If you want any more info, just ask.
xxx


----------



## Trolley

Will def read it again Bizi5 thank you :0)


----------



## Vaudelin

Trolley - I can't believe your clinic treated you so badly!  I guess some are just like that.  As if getting a BFN isn't bad enough - we need the support afterwards. xx


----------



## Trolley

Vaudelin the Nurses were FAB but the consultant was horrific,  He was meant to fast track me through all my tests but it took 2 years hence I was 40 when I got all my results.  The NHS went nuts and granted me 2 free cycles which he had to perform.  He wrote to my PCT and asked for my funding to be removed as he felt I was too old.  They said no so he had to do it.  I shook before every appointment as I dreaded seeing him.  It was just awful honestly.

Bizi5 - read your post again and saw you only took 1 a day on your natural cyclea so will do the same :0)

T
x


----------



## soozywong

Hi Girls

Thanks for all your messages, sorry not been on for a bit, out all yesterday cos my birthday and then busy tonight (and can't access at work!).

Quick message now cos I'm knackered.  Trolley, can't believe what awful time you had but glad you got free IVF. I just missed that cos too old but I'm so lucky cos my father in law is paying for 2 rounds.

Well had some good news yesterday cos the nurse who did my pill scan said all looked good so suddenly will be starting treatment really soon (which means should prob. go to another thread cos this is meant to be naturally; I'll be back here if IVF doesn't work!).  Anyway, she said my ovaries didn't look like those of a woman with AMH of 3 as they looked perfectly healthy and she said that these AMH tests seemed to vary quite a lot so feel much more encouraged.  She also gave me lots of positive stories about women who had taken DHEA (wonder why some acupuncturists are against it), said embryos often better quality even if AMH hasn't gone up, including a woman of 46 who got pg; she said she knew of people with repeated failed IVF cycles who then got pg when took DHEA.  So that set me up for having a lovely birthday with my family and friends and felt better than had done for ages.

Anyway must go to bed, thanks again for all your messages and I'll keep in touch with you and your hints and tips on getting pg naturally if this cycle doesn't work... can't believe I'm starting again any minute now.

Sleep well everyone.  Keep dreaming.  One of my songs recently has been "Don't stop believing" so I'll sing it for you all now...

Sx


----------



## hopehopehope

soozy - come to this thread 40 plus and IVF using own eggs - anyone else out there? 
what clinic are you at?

Trolley - at least you got 2 free cycles, my local hospital wouldn't treat me whwn i was 38 and single as 
they said they wouldn't deal with single women and donor sperm, then by the time i found
out this was wrong, i was 40 and it was too late  
Am now happily married, but still angry that they messed up and i was the vicitm.


----------



## Trolley

HHH - I was told no initially so I drafted a case and went direct to the PCT and they overturned my hospital's decision thankfully - not that it worked of course!

How are you all?  My lot at work are driving me insane already today - roll on 5:00!!!!!

Need to look into DHEA I think Soozywong - not even sure where to buy it from and if it's safe to take with Agnus Castus!  I am rattling :0)

Morning Vaudelin!

T


----------



## Vaudelin

Morning!  Thank God it's Friday! 

Would be interested to hear how you get on the DHEA - I have read good and bad things.  I am quite tempted myself but my acupuncturist has said not to touch it.  If I am still in this position next year I might look into it. 

I am so bored at work - my main boss is away so I am twiddling my fingers again today.  Roll on the weekend!


----------



## Trolley

Me too Vaudelin - my I work for 2 Directors and 1 is in London but I am catching up - sadly the teams are high maintenance and driving me nuts!

I am about to google DHEA - would love to hear why acu's say not to use it?

I guess I shouldn't use it at the same time as Agnus Castus . . . 

T


----------



## Bright Eyes

Thought I might just drop in and join you girls. We have had years of IVF and in between going back to basics! Had a natural bfp in March but missed miscarriage at about 8 weeks. I was devastated . I think it was worse to have that expereince as now I get even more frustrated each month - thinking well it happened once. I had started to switch off from it all  and that's when it happened, but now it's all there in my head again.. clock and monitor watching and I hate it! I continue to take my vits ( tips taken off this site) , gave up on accupuncure and chineese meds ( as got the bfp wihout it), and keeping mself fit. Not had my fsh/amh done for ages as don't want to either have false hope or get the depressions about it... cannot do that much to really change it?  I still have 4 ready for FET and we hope to do this in Nov but I keep putting it off as that will be my last hope I feel out the window?
I think that we should never give up hope until our bodies are no longer capable... you just never know ...
Good Luck to us all for the rest of 2010!     Bright Eyes


----------



## Trolley

Hi Bright Eyes and welcome!

You are right to never give up!  We all have really low points as you are right now by the sound of it but you will get strong again honey :0)

Just keep on doing what you are doing . . . .

AFM 3 bars and the egg today on the monitor so early night again tonight ;0)

T


----------



## hopehopehope

wey hey hey trolley - go  for it!!

Hello bright eyes, i'm in similar position to you in that i did have a bfp natural 3 years ago then MC. My Af started yesterday and i feel very depressed, spent last night crying in front of tv, can't talk to dh - he probably thinks i'm upset over something totally different. i stupidly thought that my first natural cycle after ivf might work.

i am not going to give up as i will move on to donor eggs next year whn i am 43.  I feel as though i am grieving the loss of my own children that i will never have - is that something you have to go through before donor eggs?


----------



## Bright Eyes

Hope... My DH will not consider DE, we have been throught that and met the co-ordinator at Care. He will not consider Adoption either. So its a BFP of our own or nothing for me. It has caused so many argurments but he has to be 100% on board and he is not and nothing will change his mind and I have to accept that.. even if I don't agree with it.
T- have a good night !
Bright Eyes


----------



## hopehopehope

ah bright eyes - that's a difficult one. I just kind of told my dh, 'if ivf doean't work we'll have to use a donor'. Luckily i  have a close friend who used a sperm donor as her dh doesn't have any sperm and their child looks just like the daddy even though genetically he isn't. Whenever dh starts on his 'we'll have to think about it' speech, i just talk about them, and how the Daddy desperately wants another donor baby. I also have another friend who we've known since school who is trying for an egg donor baby with her dh so it has kind of normalised it for him. 
Re the adoption, i'm a teacher and have seen so many couples split when adoption goes wrong and the lack of support you get in our local area is awful -  i wouldn't risk it. I already do respite fostering, so if it comes to a total no at the end of this road then i would rather do long term fostering than adopt - especiallly since most adoption these days is 'open' so they maintain contact with birth families, you might as well foster. i feel that fostering is a great thing for men who are iffy about the commitment of adoption, we love our two girls to bits. Hats off to all those couples who do adopt but i couldn't.


----------



## Bright Eyes

Hope.. donor is really a no no... we've had the worse rows ever about it. When we went to even talk to care about it he was so rude and dismissive. Am a Social Worker and worked for a while in Adoption and Fostering ( before defecting to Adults as they are less hassle!) so aware of the issues but that's a no-go for DH too. have been trying to work on the foserting bit though as you say.. no long term committment.
It's just early nights and never say never at the moment! Love Bright Eyes


----------



## little lebowski

Hi All
Thought i'd drop back in with some news. After IVFback in July which resulted in an early miscarriage, had truly dreadul time of it since then with pain, bleeding, hot flushes, headaches. Advised by my clinic in August that ultrasound and bloods show no follicles, no ovarian activity, and that this may continue for 8 weeks or more. Have ruled out donor eggs and more IVF. So have been feeling pretty sorry for myself but started feeling a little better in the past 2 weeks, better enough to TTC naturally. 

I had a BFP confirmed with blood test (HCG 120) had a scan yesterday to check things given the recent miscarriage, nothing to see yet as too early I'm told so have to go back next week. The dr we saw says this is a "spontaneous new pregnancy". Hurrah for 42 yr olds, I hardly dare believe it, its very early days though of course. I had lost hope after the IVF. I used to love then hate reading posts like this, because they gave me hope, then my hopes would be dashed. But it seems it can and does happen, it has happened to me, I hope this will happen for others of our age. Best of Luck to ALL. xxx


----------



## Vaudelin

Wow little lebowski that is fantastic news well done you and DH!  Am thrilled for you.  I hope one day soon I will be writing a similar post myself. 

Please keep us posted.

xxxx


----------



## Eddieswife

Hi

I am 40 and have been ttc for just over a year.  I had a m/c at 6 weeks which was my first cycle after coming off the pill last September but nothing since.  We have been for an infertility appointment today and I have come away quite upset.  The consultant basically said my only chance of getting pregnant was IVF.  Well, we haven't got £4,000 - my dh is unemployed - and he never mentioned clomid until I asked about it and then he said I had to lose 17kg before he would prescribe it!!!  Talk about unfair.  That will take me at least 6 months to lose and by then I will be 6 months older and even less likely to conceive.  I feel very deflated


----------



## hopehopehope

little Leb - that's amazing news - please keep us posted, you know it gives us hope. 

Eddieswife - don't worry honey, was it your GP or a specialist who told you this. it might be if you have a high bmi that it is stopping you ovulating properly, also extra fat messes with your hormomnme levels - start the diet today - like me!! i have 4 stone to lose to get to bmi 25
i had clomid earlier this year when my bmi was 30.  Have you had AMH test done? Unless you have blocked tubes or sperm is imotile then there is still a good chance you could get a natural bfp. only somethin like 75% young people will get pregnant in first year of trying  and there aare ladies who try for 5 years then get pregnant. 

let me know your test results xx


----------



## Bright Eyes

Little leb - that is fab news. Fingers and toes crossed that all goes well for you.. Never say Never !    
Eddieeswife - sorry to hear that you have had upsetting feedback. Have they done any other tests or given you any possible reasons - apart from the usual age thing ?   
I was hoping that a week in warm Spain this week would do us some good on the loving stakes  but AF has decided to come a week later than usual  to put a stop on that and it's raining ....   Hey Ho.. all good plans and all that!
Bright Eyes x


----------



## little lebowski

Thanks for all the good wishes. Had some more blood tests, HCG on Tuesday: 120; on Wed, 340; by Friday 680 - its really early so hoping the levels are still increasing but won't know til Thursday & my scan appt. Wish me luck, I'm scared. Have been wandering about in a daze and keep thinking its all a dream that I'll wake up from any minute, imagining all sorts of horrors over the weekend ... think I need to get a grip.
At my IVF clinic my AMH before treatment was 9.3, it dropped to 1.5 during treatment, very low  & the clinic could not explain this, but it meant it would be very difficult for me to become pregnant at all, even with IVF. Along with that and a scan in August that showed no ovarian function after my miscarriage, my partner and I thought it was all over, a BFP seemed a clinical impossibility. 
The body can be a very strange thing!
Best of Luck to ALL xxx.


----------



## hopehopehope

omg little leb have all toes and fingers crossed and my heart is with you - wishing you the BESt of luck for your scan and numbers doubling every 48 hours


----------



## Trolley

CONGRATULATIONS LIttle Leb - I love that you are bringing us hope ... and great news!!!


----------



## Loll

Hello Ladies
Hope you dont mind me joining this thread. As you can see by my sig i have had a failed ivf this year but also a chem perg that had happened naturally before the ivf. We are now ttc naturally   

little lebowsk.. What fantastic news for you and also great hope for the rest of us. Big congrats x x

 to everyone x


----------



## MaisieCat

Hello Ladies,

Another "hope you don't mind me joining in".

My signature too tells you where I am with this.  I only discovered this site after I was booked in for IUI and was chatting to someone at work who has had successful IVF.

I'm on some other threads too, but there aren't many 'oldies' on there so I thought here might be a nice 'place' to discuss experiences past and current and - hopefully - hear some good news from some of you which will help give me hope.

I'm in the waiting period now after having been inseminated (eugh - it makes me sound like I'm a farmyard animal!) on 13th Sept.  Been told not to test until 1st October.  I suspect it will be back to the natural way for a bit if this doesn't work as our clinic is very busy (goes to show you sometime still have to wait even if you've saved the pennies).

Best wishes and   to everyone.  Look forward to following all your news.

A-M
xx


----------



## Trolley

Welcome Maisiecat and wishing you the best of luck.  The 2WW is tough :0(


----------



## MaisieCat

Thanks Trolley,

Read your sig.  Sorry to hear what you've been through.  Got a feeling I'm starting on a similar road.  Trying to juggle staying positive and not getting my hopes up.

Good luck with your natural efforts  

A-M
xx


----------



## little lebowski

Hello to Maisiecat, my thoughts & hopes are with you on the 2ww, get lots of rest.

A wee update from me: 
HCG levels today: 8,000 (and something, can't remember what) - a big step up from last Friday's 680 - which the doctor is pleased with. At the risk of sounding like I don't appreciate how lucky we are even to be at this early stage, I was so disappointed the scan didn't really show much, he said there was a dot which he thought was the sac (I really couldn't see anything) but its too small at this stage to see anything in it or a fetal pole, so have to go back next Thurs. My legs were shaking so much it was blurring the scan, I'm a complete nervous wreck. I worked out from TTC dates that I can't be much more than 5 weeks & 3 days at most. I convinced myself it would be bad news today, I woke up this morning with the room spinning  & I feel really off-balance, dizziness already! I feel so awful to be so negative, its driving my partner insane, maybe its hormonal changes. I guess the uncertainty is getting to me, it all seems so inconclusive, I feel like I've been holding my breath since last week.

Have worried myself sick the past 2 days cos I have had left-sided pain low down nr groin & scared to death of ectopic. The pain is mild, abit like ovulation pain but its enough to scare me, its worse for moving around and bending over so am on semi-bedrest for now. Could be "corpus luteum" pain according to the doc, I do hope so. I live in a very remote place, its 100 mile round trip to the hospital mainly on single track roads so hope we're not going to be making an unscheduled trip. Very best wishes to ALL xxx


----------



## Courgette

Hi Little L

Lovely lovely news, congratulations!!

I totally relate to your disbelief that 'it's' happened and all your fears as I am still having them!! Although we made the decision not to pursue fertility treatment, I still feel my conception was a miracle at my age and this little one is so precious   

Tons of luck and positive vibes to all of the others on this thread who are hoping for the same outcome ... it DOES happen, in my case, when you are least expecting it!!

xx


----------



## MaisieCat

Thanks for the support Little L.  I sincerely hope that you feel better soon and that your news stays good.  

Meeps - So lovely to hear about your success.  I will think about your story of unexpected success if I end up back to square one.  Perhaps all they say is true about forgetting all about it and 'just letting it happen'.

Also keeping me going is the fact that my Mum (and my Mum-in-law actually) was born when her Mum was 42.  Hoping I've inherited something from Nanny that will help me (I did get her blue eyes despite Mum and Dad's both being brown after all   ).  

Had my Pregnyl injection a couple of hours ago - anyone have any experience of this drug?  I know it's pregnancy hormone to help the womb lining, but is it likely to give me a load more hope raising symptoms (already sleeping on my side instead of my front cos boobies are so sore)?

  and   to anyone that feels the need xx

A-M.


----------



## hopehopehope

Hi to Loll, maisiecat and meeps!!

maisiecat - i found the pregnly didn't worsen any symptoms - was the prgesterone suppositories that drove me bonkers. 

AF due on Sun/mon had tummy rumblings since last sunday and no sore boobs, so don't think i ovulated this month. On pill a few days after AF for another IVF cycle around Aug 25th  - fed up of all this, but can't bare to think it's over.


----------



## MaisieCat

Thanks hopehopehope.  It's nice to get some clues about these things.  Bizarrely I seem to be getting an odd taste in my mouth - sort of metallic   .  Probably nothing.  I'll just get my milky drink then off to bed...

A-M
xx


----------



## hopehopehope

maisie cat - as pregnyl is the pregnancy hormone, then it might give you the metallic taste they say you get when you are just pregnant.


----------



## MaisieCat

Oh thanks Hope.  That'll be it then.  I've never heard that one before.  It's gone now though (sore boobies still with me though).


A-M
xx


----------



## Trolley

Morning girls,

Hope you are al having a lovely weekend!

Been using a CBFM since in ended my last IVF cycle . . . I usually ov on Day 19 which I believe is a huge problem for me as by then all the progesterone has left the building :0)  Started taking Agnus Castus last month to try and regulate ov.  POAS this morning and I have 2 bars on Day 12!!!  Now, this could either be good news and the AC is regulating my ov OR do you think that it could be affected by AF being 6 days late last month as I delayed it with Cyclogest?  I am counting from the day AF arrived . . . do you think I'm right?

T


----------



## MaisieCat

OMG Trolley that sounds a bit complicated for my little brain on a Sunday!   

We've been using the CBFM for a good while, but my ov. day is rarely beyond day 12 (usually 10 or 11) so I'm obviously at the total other end of the spectrum!  I've carried on with it through my IUI because I wasn't sure if it would mess it up for the future if I missed a month and it very nicely gave me 3 bars the morning after I had my trigger jab (which was on day 15).

Just googled Agnus Castus as I had no idea what it was and it's directed me to a very helpful natural health for women website - so thanks for that   .  I'll be having a proper read of it later.

Sorry I couldn't really help - I'm sure someone with some clues will be along soon.

A-M
xx


----------



## soozywong

Hi Everyone

Remember me!  Haven't been on for a while as been in the middle of IVF but have been keeping up to date with you all.  Welcome to the newcomers and congratulations to Little Lebs and Meeps.

Well, sadly I'm back again as I found out this morning my 2nd IVF didn't work.  I was on DHEA so was hoping it would be better and went really well initially; body responded really well and quickly to the drugs and had 6 follicles and good womb lining quite quickly.  Got 5 eggs and all fertilised and all got to good quality at day 3 so was really chuffed when they said they'd continue to blastocyst.  Sadly none of them quite got there, 2 were at morula stage (normally day 4), one of which was cavitating morula, so on the way to blastocyst.  Had those 2 put back a week last Saturday but I thought for the last couple of days that probably hadn't worked as my boobs which had been sore for weeks cos of all the drugs suddenly stopped being sore, and I just didn't feel pg.  So it wasn't a great surprise this morning but obviously still devastating.  

So we're back to trying naturally again for a while and see what happens.  One minute I think I haven't got the emotional energy to keep going and the next minute I feel that there is still hope.  And it's been good to read some of your hopeful stories too.  But it is just so exhausting isn't it.

I've got the day off work today as just can't face going in. My friends have been great as a lot of them know and had lots of supportive phone calls and texts, but they've nearly all got kids and it's just hard....

Trolley, I haven't used the CBFM but I would think it would make sense that you would always count the days from the day of your first period, even if it is late.  Maybe the AC is doing its thing.

Has anyone had any success stories with AC, I've never taken it but have heard it can help.  Are you self-medicating?  I'm going to start taking l'arginine again as I've heard that can really help too.

Sending you all much love and positive and hopeful vibes.

Thanks for reading and for your support and solidarity.

Lots of love

Sooz


----------



## Vaudelin

Sooz - I am so sorry to hear about your latest BFN.  Unfortunately there is nothing anyone can say that will make you feel better - it really sucks, I truly know how you are feeling.  Take some time to yourself and heal and maybe have a glass of wine! 

Quite a few girls are trying Apimist plus royal jelly which is supposed to help with egg quality.  I am going to try it next month - anything is worth a go as all I ever hear from cons these days is "what about egg donor" blah blah blah.  I told my gynae on Friday that I wasn't ready to discuss that yet.

Trolley - I think you should calculate from the start of AF.  Hopefully the agnus castus has done the trick!  Good luck.  

xxxx


----------



## soozywong

Thanks Vaudelin, it really does suck, there's nothing else for it. I did enjoy my glass of wine though, and because I hadn't drunk for ages and had it before supper, even one glass helped me feel a bit better for a few minutes!

Can you let me know where you got your Apimist from? Is this a new thing, I'd never heard of it before yesterday. It's so hard to know what's worth taking isn't it?  Each person/book has different advice etc, but if there's positive stories I'm happy to go for it! 

I know I don't feel ready for egg donation either, I don't even know if we'll ever go that route cos of finances and various other things, but definitely not ready for it yet.

Thanks again for your reply, I spent a lot of yesterday browsing FF and it's good to know you're not alone and also to read positive success stories from us "oldies".  

Soozx


----------



## Trolley

Morning Sooz . . some of us on another TTC Naturally thread (which Vaudelin is also on) bouight our Apimist from here:

http://www.purelyforyou.com/apimist-plus-pollen-p-13.html?sort=20a

Hope it helps :0)

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## Vaudelin

Sooz - and I am probably going to order mine from this website as I have ordered fresh royal jelly before with them and delivery was quick:

http://www.apitherapy.biz/home.html

I will certainly have a look at the website that Trolley has recommended to compare prices etc. 

xxxx

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## soozywong

Hi Everyone

I have also been posting on the "DHEA verdict" thread and been encouraged by someone on that to start taking DHEA again (she had 2 successful natural DHEA pregnancies) as was told today success rates for spontaneous pregnancy have been proved more so than for IVF so I thought it might be suitable for some of you.  Should go through your doctor as not necessarily right for everyone and some people recommend having tests of your levels beforehand.  Also there are some links with breast cancer risks so I've read it might not be right for people if have history of this in their family, but I feel encouraged again today reading about it and so wanted to pass it on to you lot.  I know one of your acupuncturist's was really against it - did you find out why? I told my acupuncturist about it and she didn't seem very excited about it either and just mentioned links to cancer, but I decided to take it anyway.

Thanks Trolley and Vaudelin for links to apimist, will have a look at this too.

Lots of luck to everyone and here's hoping this will be our time...

Sooz


----------



## Trolley

Where is the thread Sooz?  I was looking into DHEA myself . . .


----------



## Josie Jo

Re DHEA soz
I'm looking into it too. ordered some from Biovea but it's sitting on my desk, unopened. Bit nervous about self prescribing but heard good things


----------



## soozywong

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=239978.0

Hi Trolley, thread is as above, hope link works? If not, it's under TTC over 40, DHEA verdict.

Josie Jo, I've heard it's best not to self prescribe, have you got a doctor/consultant you can talk to about it.

I got mine from biovea too (think it's www.biovea.com)

Keep me posted.

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites

Sx


----------



## little lebowski

Hello all
Here I am with some more news but not so good this week. Had my scan this morning and the gestational sac is in the right place but after a very long silence the doctor said he expected to see something more & cannot and explained the sac was where the pregnancy had been (his use of the past tense was very distressing). He asked for a second opinion from another doctor, who felt it was still early days and so have to go back in 10 days for another scan.  Because I had a miscarriage 8 weeks ago and my cycle had not yet resumed my dates are unclear, but based on my TTC dates, I doubt I can be more than about 6 weeks pregnant. The first doctor said the sac looked the size of a 7 week pregnancy & therefore he expected to see a heartbeat.  I'm so confused because the advice I received from the second doctor and midwife was to stay positive & hope for the best while on the other hand, they said it does not look hopeful & to be realistic. This is the hardest thing & even after all the years of TTC & all the disappointments we've had, I really don't know how to get through this. Thanks everyone for all the good wishes. xxx


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## Trolley

Oh Little Leb that is exactly what happened to me so I feel for you.  I went for my scan on my own thinking there wouldn't be a prob and they had to call my DH to come as I was in a mess.  You poor thing.  So am I right in thinking you have to wait another 10 days for a scan?  I will keep everything crossed for you honey that they have scanned too early.

Hi Sooz I looked at the DHEA thread and like Josie Jo I am a bit nervous to try it . . . was your Doctor supportive when you saw them and did you have to take some research with you?  I am on Agnus Castus at the moment so will give that 3 months then look into this I think!  Thanks for the fab advice!

Hope you girls are all well!!  Been quiet on here today.

Big hugs Little Leb :0(

T


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## little lebowski

Hi Trolley
Yep, I have to go back in 10 days for another scan. The second doctor was very supportive and said after everything I've been through recently, they would not touch anything at this stage & want to give things a proper chance. Maybe they are just giving me time to miscarry naturally. My head's all over the place, I thought the 2ww was the longest 2 weeks of my life & on IVF it felt like an eternity, but it seems those have been replaced with an entirely new kind of agony ... x


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## Trolley

Well we are all here for you Little Leb :0(

Once again, I have everything crossed for you . . .


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## Vaudelin

Just wanted to send a massive HUG to Little lebowski.  From what you are saying, if you are only 6 weeks then surely they won't see much more than a sac at that stage?  I am no expert in early pregnancy!  Keeping everything crossed for you.  I can't imagine how you are feeling but we will stay positive and strong for you and pray that you have a little fighter in there.  Take care of yourself. 

xxxx


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## little lebowski

Vaudelin, Trolley and my other well wishers
From the bottom of my heart, I thank you all so much for the thoughts, hugs & wishes. I just can't talk to anyone about this, so it really means alot to me. I too hope that maybe its just too early but have to admit thats its a very small vain hope buried underneath a BIG fear of the worst. My TTC dates were 22, 24, 26 August. I had just started charting temps & CM again & ovulation registered on 26 August. I had  positive OPKs between 24-30 August. Based on that info I'm thinking conception was not before 26th August (28 days ago) & we haven't TTC since then. My LMP date is unclear because I miscarried on July 27 and bleeding continued until around Aug 20th. The uncertainty is just about sending me off the rails, I've such a headache from looking at my calendar and going over the dates again and again and again. 

Anyway though my news is not exactly what I'd wish for, I'm wishing positive vibes to all.
x


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## hopehopehope

little leb - i so hope that this turns out well for you - only tme will tell unfortunately

josie and dtrolley - i'm on Biovea DHEA for 8 weeks now and all fine (maybe hair and skin a tincy bit oilier and I think i am becomming more prone to 'pits' of depression - though this is due to not having my longed for baby) 
it has taken my cycle form 25 days back to 28 which is excellent news for me. 
in the maerican studioes they didn't base the 75mg a day on any indiviual hormone tests, but just gave everyone the same amount.  i spoek to my IVF clinic and also to Lister about it and they were happy for me to go ahead with it, but obviously couldn't prescribe or endorse it due to lack of  largeer scale tests. 

i am also taking Melatonin after reading the japapnese study in the Telegrapp last week

Hi to everyone - i'm ratttling off!!! hope3


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## soozywong

Little Leb, I was so so sorry to read your news, my heart is aching for you; I know that it's the uncertainty and waiting which is just so hard and trying to balance being hopeful and realistic.  I really hope that all will be well - it must be so hard when you don't know the dates exactly, but it does sound if it's only 6 weeks then there may still be hope. Thinking of you during the next few days.

Re DHEA, I had done some research on it and when went for my f/u with my consultant, Alison Taylor, at the Lister, I mentioned it to her and she said she had been about to recommend it to me as she'd just been to a conference where some fertility expert she really respected had been talking about it.  I am nervous about the links to cancer, as it seems like they don't have enough research on it to know "long term" effects of taking it and I don't quite know what the definition is of "long term" but will check all this when go for next f/u with Alison in October.  But I am encouraged by the increase in spontaneous pregnancy it can have.  Might write to Alison actually and check with her about starting to take it again.  Will keep you posted. 

Lots of love to you all, Sooz


----------



## Trolley

OOH yes Sooz please find out what you can and also what dosages they recommend - I would be really interested as want to give it a go and don't know where to start . . .

T


----------



## soozywong

Hi Trolley 

I know the dosage I was recommended was 25g 3 x a day. But they always do say about not self-medicating.  Are you under any consultant at the moment who could recommend, or maybe talk to GP (although less likely to know about it).  As I think I said my consultant didn't send me for any preliminary tests to check my levels although some people seem to recommend this.  Will keep you posted as I find out more...

Sx


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## MaisieCat

Sorry, not been on for a while.  Just wanted to pop on and pass   and best wishes to Little Leb.

 and    to everyone else as well of course.

A-M
xx


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## little lebowski

Thanks so much, Sooze, hopehopehope, and Maisiecat for your good wishes, and everyone else too... I'm trying to carry on as normal but its hard when things are so in limbo. I have a retroverted uterus which is not uncommon particularly in women like me with endometriosis & yesterday I found a web forum that inspired a wee tiny spark of hope. It seems there are numerous cases of women with this condition and it can take much longer than usual to see anything in the gestational sac. It anyone is interested the website is called: http://www.misdiagnosedmiscarriage.com

Prior to getting this positive HPT, I started taking a vitamin supplement called Fertility Plus, I had acupuncture twice which I have never tried before. I followed some advice about TTC only on every other day during the fertile time, I found this in a book called Taking Charge of Your Fertility. http://www.tcoyf.com/. These are the new things I tried.
love and peace to all xxx

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


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## little lebowski

Hi all
Well I never thought I'd be writing this post! we saw a tiny fetus and heartbeat at my scan today. Big smiles all round ;-)
Its still very early days and it is very very small so I have to go back in 2 weeks for a scan to measure it and to monitor the heartbeat because it was too small to do that today. The past 10 days have been awful, I was preparing myself for the worst. Even now I can't really let myself believe it. Roll on the next 2 weeks.
Big hugs to all
xx


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## Trolley

Congrats Little Leb that is awesome news!!!

Please send some of your baby dust our way :0)

T


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## soozywong

Little Leb, that is wonderful news, how amazing.  Will be thinking of you over the next few days...

Sooz


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## MaisieCat

Oh what wonderful news Little Leb!

 for you and your little one.  xxx

As for me, I'm back to TTC naturally for a bit now, as my IUI failed with a horrible painful AF much worse than normal arriving last Wednesday (I was due to test on the Friday).  I'm just about getting over it now and am back at work.  Clinic will be reviewing my case on Wednesday and I'm told they'll call me about next steps by the end of this week, however I'm expecting to have to wait at least a couple of cycles before having another tx.

So, if anyone has any special tricks up their sleeve that we can try, please do tell!  I'm already using the Clearblue monitor to pinpoint my ovulation day, am taking folic acid (who isn't!?) and we have both given up alcohol and caffiene (well about 95% of it).  

I was wondering about trying Zita West's supplements, but they are not cheap, although I do know they come as a nice sturdy capsule.  Can anyone recommend any others that come in a capsule form or a small pill - I have huge trouble swallowing big tablets if they start to dissolve even a tiny bit in my mouth before I can swallow them (I end up gagging and sometimes even throwing up)?  I know it sounds as though I'm being a wimp, but it's a serious issue I've had ever since I can remember and I just can't get over it.  

Thinking of you all with    and   .

A-M
xx


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## Trolley

Morning girls!

Good to  hear from you all as it's been quiet on here . . . 

Maisiecat I'm so sorry the treatment didn't work :0(  I take Fertility Plus tablets which are from the Marilyn Glenville Natural Health Practice.  Similar price to Zita's though.  Ihave been warned off anything in tablet form as they use wax to hold tablets together so capsules are a must :0)

I have been on Agnus Castus for 2 months as I have a short LP - I ov on Day 19 of a 28 days cycle.  Sadly it has had the opposite effect - this month I had a 25 days cycle and didn't ov at all so not a happy bunny.  Oh well start a fresh this month!

Love to you all

T


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## little lebowski

Cheers everyone for your thoughts and good wishes, even with the good news I'm pretty stressed out and having sleepless nights, awake from 3.30am this morning. My doc says I need to relax, ha ha! thats so easy for him to say. I'm not sure how to relax cos I think I forgot how to think positively anymore, which seems ridiculous given the circumstances. Its probably a self defence mechanism.

Maisiecat, I'm so sorry to hear the outcome of the IUI. I was on Menopur for my IVF, though I had a poor response to it, made me feel rather ill for awhile. I don't know a great deal about IUI, but how many phials of Menopur were you on, I was on 3 per day which I think was about 320, I also took ovitrelle and Pregnyl. My consultant has said maybe I got a natural BFP through some residual effects from the IVF stimulation as it takes some time for it to come out of your system. My GP also said that sometime a natural BFP happens after a failed stimulation treatment.

Like Trolley I took Fertility Plus tablets from the Marilyn Glenville Natural Health Practice, you can order online. I find these difficult to swallow so I emptied the capsules into a yoghurt and scoffed them that way. One other thing I did besides acupuncture was alter my diet slightly. I changed to full fat milk, started eating red meat twice a week, brazil nuts (chocolate ones!) & blueberries everyday, stopped alcohol and stuck to one cup of coffee a day. I am quite slender and I read somewhere your body can avoid a BFP if it feels your reserves are too low thats why I changed to whole milk & increased my protein intake. Obviously this might not be the diet for everyone & I don't know whether it made a difference but I feel I have more energy and people have commented that I look really healthy.

All the best, I don't know where the baby dust comes from but I'm hoping like mad that some lands on you folks too.
x


----------



## Loll

Congratulations little lebowski   

Sorry not been on for a while so Congrats to all i have missed and has always big hugs to those who have'nt  

Question for everyone...How many have tryed or know someone who has tryed acupunture and gone on to concieve naturally? please can you post your stories and experiances on here as i have recently had my first acupucture and would love to hear other peoples experiances of this... Thank you to all who respond to this post

  to all, Love Loll


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## Bright Eyes

Just wanted to send     to Little Leb - fab news and hope that all goes smoothy from here.
I had accupucture alongside 4 cycles of tx but not had it with natural trying as sort of lost faith in it really. Someone has suggested reflexology so may give that a go ?
I hoped to tx naturally but DH seems to have been aware during key times and AF didn't come to plan for a recent holiday so sent OV up the creek ! We have some frosties to use but not sure when as each month something seems to get in the way and sure DH does it on purpose ! We have Aunty from Aus next cycle, then bathroom upheaval the next and taking inlaws away a week the next and then xmas! In the new year we would risk the 2ww ending on our birthday! Why is it never easy.. then I think maybe it's a sign to keep trying other ways.. then I get cross for stressing about it..  
Love and Best thoughts to everyone
Bright Eyes


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## hopehopehope

little leb - thats amazing news - i am over the moon for you. PLEASE try to keep calm. I remember when i had my bfp i was fine until my GP wouldn't refer me to the hospital due to high mc risk, i got myself into such a state, my heart was pounding all the time, i'd wake in the middle of the night and couldn't go back to sleep - i felt generally 'wired' and culdn't switch off. it really didn't help me. Am sending you ltos and lots of      that you can just chill adn it'll be fine xx


Loll - i've had Acu, but no bfp's for me. i think it's all about relaxing and improving bloof flow - but this will only help if you have poor blood flow to start off with..

Trolley - i think Agnus Castus is too strong - you need to get progesterone support to lenghther Luteul phase. I'm now on 75mg DHEA and 3mg melatonin (works wonders with my sleep!) Maybe time to change tack the DHEA has lenghtened my cycle a little bit - but this is in the follicular phase. 


maisiecat -    you're time will come xx I'm taking DHEA , melatonin,  CoenzymeQ10,  Zinc ,  DHA/epa (non fish variety from water4net) folic acid  and Vitamin C. I count them all out on a saturday and keep them in a little box which has a section for each day so i  don't od on them! Very little caffeine, only one glass of wine or a beer each week  and lots and lots of sleep and cycling. I write down  my food every day and make sure i have at least 5 a day - more like 10! Also trying to lose weight (BMI 31) and eat foods without trans fats/sugar etc.  DH has carried on as normal and is forced to take a centrum once a day  - he hasn't given up smoking which i driving me mad!

Brighteyes - tis never a good time honey - go for it now xox 

I'm on pill till Saturday and expecting to start injecting for next round of IVf on Thursday 14th. I SOOO hope the  DHEa and Melatonin have made a difference


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## little lebowski

Hey Maisiecat. I meant to say that I was using ovulation tests too, but this time I used 2-3 different brands each day at the same time (yeah, to say I was slightly obsessed is an understatement!) and found I was getting slightly different results from each. The brands I used were First Response, Superdrug and ClearBlue. With First Response I had the earliest faint positive and then 6 days of increasingly strong positives, with Superdrug 2 days of faint positives, with Clearblue 3 days of faint positives. I concluded that First Response was (for me) the most sensitive test and we TTC every other day based on the results. I read somewhere that you can get false LH surges but I don't think this was the case with the First Response tests because I also had fertile CM. The First Response results meant we TTC over a slightly longer timeframe than we have before now,  about 7 days, whereas before we always TTC for about 3 days every day. I'd like to think it made a difference. It may be worthwhile experimenting with different ovulation kits.
lots of love & best wishes
xxx


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## soozywong

Hi everyone

Maisiecat, so sorry to hear treatment didn't work and that you had such a painful period.

Trolley, can you say more about not taking in tablet form cos of wax.  Who told you about that and why? I hadn't heard it before and have always taken them in tablet form.  Would you recommend Marilyn Glanville's then?

In terms of things trying, also on DHEA, just ordered apimist (see earlier posts), arrived yesterday but unfortunately 2 out of 4 of the jars (there was a deal on!) were broken, so need to let them know.  Also on lots of vitamins, co-enzyme Q10, l'arginine, Omega 3,6,9 etc.  

Little Leb, interesting re ov sticks, I've just got quite cheap ones from Access diagnostics which I usually get faint lines for a couple of days, this cycle, am on day 15, and still no line.  Have been beating myself up cos when we first started trying I didn't use them and I thought I ov on day 15 so tried uptil then, but I think my luteal phase is quite short so often it's a bit later so I've been driving myself mad thinking maybe if we'd tried later.... the mind is a horrible thing sometimes, wish I wasn't such an obsessive thinker!

Anyway, also have been acu for a couple of years now, only one BPF (then miscarriage) so hard to say how much is it has helped but I keep going with it cos I feel like it should be and might be helping.  I have also tried to cut back on wheat a bit, did cut back on dairy but lost weight and was too thin so am back on dairy now.  Is there an issue with eating potatoes or cheese - I've hard mentions of that?

Anyway, must do some work. Lots of love to you all.

IS anyone going to the fertility show in London in Nov? Me and DH (bless him) are going on the Friday 4th.

Sooz


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## little lebowski

Hi hopehopehope
yes, I have felt "wired" - that is exactly how it feels.
Still having sleepless nights, still knickerchecking 10 x a day (sorry for TMI!) and mad panic over every pain and twinge. Going back to work next week so will have less time to dwell on things, maybe that will help. 

I hope I can still stay on this thread & that no-one minds me posting here cos the support for us aged 42 or over is fantastic, but I do want to remain sensitive to other ladies on the thread. I looked at some other threads but don't feel I really belong anywhere else, not yet anyway.
bye for now
x


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## Trolley

Hi Soozywong,

Yes my friend is a nutritionist and she told me, as have other therapists that I have seen.  All tablets contain mainly wax to bind them together hence you should always go for capsules when taking vitamins and but them from a natural source.  They cost more but they do more.
Acu - I had 2 lots of acu alongside my 2 x IVF and it did nothing I'm afraid apart from relax me a bit.

Hope that helps!

T


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## MaisieCat

Hi all,

I wouldn't worry, LittleLeb, about staying on this thread.  I'm sure no-one minds.  It's lovely to have you here giving us a bit of hope  .  I do hope everything is still going well for you.

It's interesting what you said about the ov. sticks.  I used the normal Clearblue ones for a while, then hubby bought me one of the Fertility monitor things that you 'plug' a stick into and it reads it for you, tracking your cycle for you at the same time and giving you a couple of days 'warning' of your ov. as well.  I'm now wondering if I should trust just this one thing.

Have temporarily stopped worrying about what extra supplements to take.  Had my mind taken off it by a rather stressful and frustrating few conversations with my clinic regarding when I can start another tx.  (If you want the 'story' please feel free to read the 'essay' I posted on the clinic thread earlier!)  Hopefully I'll have some better news tomorrow.

Sooz - didn't know about the fertility show - will have a look at details for it tomorrow.  We're not far from London and hubby works there so we might be able to go for an afternoon.

Got to go  - just realised how late it is!

Best wishes
A-M
xx


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## soozywong

Hi

Just been for f/u at Lister and said I'd report back re DHEA.  She didn't seem to know about how long it was OK to take it for and when I mentioned about links to poss cancer risks, she didn't know about that so not very helpful I'm afraid.

Don't feel very positive about it all today. I'm on day 20 and got some bleeding this morning. Couldn't believe it, never had my period so early. I'm REALLY hoping implantation bleeding, obviously, but I did ovulate earlier than ever, day 11 or 12 I think so wondering if my cycle just completely up the spout post IVF. Very depressing. My last cycle straight after IVF got pregnant (and then m/c) so obviously was a bit hopeful for this one.

Started talking re donor eggs; don't feel ready for it yet but feels good just to be talking about different options.  Finding it all very hard today.

How are you all?

Sx


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## hopehopehope

sooz - pm me if you fancy a chat - we're the same age and the same donor considerations - i truly believe  you should take supplements to improve egg quality (see my dhea post) - lister wont and can't confirm any of this as studies are too small and not proven - but the supps i've listed on the dhea thred are the same ones the CHR CCRM use and they are experts in older ladies and poor egg quality - don't give up honey


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## soozywong

Hi

Quick message now as got to go to work; HHH, will pm you later, thank you.

Heavy bleed overnight so seems like it's just a horribly early period.  Hm, what is my body doing?

Sx


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## Trolley

Hi Ladies,

Sooz - sorry to hear it's all too much at the moment.  I have been the same as I didn't ov last month.  Went to see my acu on Saturday as I need relaxing and she was shocked that I haven't given up and she was saying donor eggs are my only option.  I need to contact the Lister to see how much the Donor Egg thing costs - although we have no pennies left  . . . .

Hi HHH - where is your DHEA post - is it on this thread honey?  Sorry to be dim!  Worried to try anything now and the Agnus Castus seemed to mess me up :0(

T


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## soozywong

Hi Trolley

Sorry to hear you're feeling like that too. Ended up working from home today, was going to go in but I just thought I'll spend the whole time rushing to the loo and trying not to look like I've been crying so what's the point. Fortunately my manager knows what's going on and she agreed if it ever feels too much I can work from home which is great.

Sorry to hear your acupuncturist saying that. I seem to be getting this message more and more; however looking at your thread, you had 2 blastocysts transferred less than a year ago which seems hopeful, and I do think it's important to give ourselves the best chance with our own eggs too. I'm sorry you're worried about trying DHEA - it's hard if you had a bad experience with AC - so hard to know what to do for the best. I'm going to read the Fertility Plan to see if I can pick up any gems. Think we'll try one more year with own eggs and then think what to do.

I just had a quick look at Lister website to try and work out DE costs earlier today - but couldn't really work it all out and there's currently a 2 year waiting list, although they do have links with overseas clincis where could be quicker but goodness knows how expensive - don't know how we'll afford it either, and still haven't got my heard round it yet either.

God, it's so so bloody tough, meanwhile friends around me are getting pg and it's just so hard.

Are you going to the Fertility Show - looks good?

HHH's DHEA post is on:

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=239978.new;topicseen#new

Lots of love

Sx


----------



## Trolley

Thanks Sooz that's fab!  No I need to look and see when and where the show is . . .  I was quite upset by what the acu said and her face was a picture when I said I was still trying.  She went on and on saying it would be really rare and that it's unusual that my friend of 44 just had a baby.  I felt pooped when I came out and it surprised me as she is a fertility specialist!

I looked into a clinic in Spain for DE treatment as my friend lives close by and it was £13k for 3 cycles.  They have a 90% success rate and if after 3 goes you aren't PG you get 30% of your money back.  Not cheap!

You're not wrong . . . it is very tough and I have had a rough couple of weeks :0(  On the up now though PMA PMA

Quick question for you all . .  At my acu appointment on Saturday I was asked for my AMH results.  Just called the clinic and they said that I was never tested . . . . do any of you know if I can get this done by my GP or do I have to go back to the clinic to have it done privately?

Hope you are all well!!

T


----------



## soozywong

I'm not surprised you were upset by what she said. You're "only" 41 and lots of people get pg at 41, I must say 42 feels worse - don't know when your birthday is but enjoy being 41 while you are.  But even at 42 it's not at all unheard of, I don't know why people are so negative. I suppose they're just trying to be realistic, like the fertility consultant was yesterday, but I'm wanting to try all the alternative stuff too.  

Re AMH, I think you have to get it done privately; never heard of a GP doing it but you could try.  I had it done before each IVF cycle.  Seems strange your clinic didn't test it. You'll probably have to go back to them.

Fertility Show is 5th and 6th November at Kensington Olympia; my DH is coming too which is really sweet of him.

Interesting re cost in Spain - that isn't at all cheap. Presumably if you get pg first round you don't have to pay £13k?  Whereabouts in Spain is it?

Glad you're feeling a bit more positive.  It is SUCH a roller coaster isn't it.

Sx


----------



## Trolley

Sooz - here is the link for the hospital in Spain.
I can forward you her e-mail to me in full with the attachments if you wanted to PM me your address to send it to.

http://www.urvistahermosa.com/default.php?lang=en

And this was her e-mail to me :

I am explaining you the fresh and synchronized egg donation program.

The procedure normally consists of two visits to Alicante. We can organize it and coming just once, but we would need some previous test to be done in your country.

In the first visit you will have an interview with the doctor, he will explain you the procedure and he will solve all your doubts, he will perform a medical exam with ultrasound scan and transfer test. Also blood tests on both you and your partner will be done in this visit and he will provide a sample to be analyzed and frozen, even if you decide to use fresh sperm, just in case. After the visit, the doctor 
will prescribe you your drugs.

The technique used is ICSI and we normally transfer on day 5 (blastocysts).

All previous results that you can bring or send to us before coming will be always helpful for the doctors.

Once both you and your ideal donor are prepared, you will come for the embryo transfer

Our hospital staff is available 24 hours in order you can be relaxed and supported during the whole treatment.

Our donors are young and healthy; just 3 out 10 interviewed women become a donor. She will be similar to you and she will have your blood group (if you prefer it). Normally, there is no waiting list.

I attach you the costs for one cycle, as you will see what is included.

There is a Refunding Program. It consists of 3 fresh cycles and the success rate is 90%. In case you are not pregnant after 3 cycles, we refund you 30% of the total price, but there is suitability test for this program. I attach you also the costs.

Also, in this program, one night of accommodation and airport/clinic transfers are included . Although Saturdays and Sundays our taxis do not work.

In case you have other questions, please let us know. If you prefer, we can set a time to call you and solve your doubts.

Kind Regards

Salome López

Tel. 0034 672 27 29 61

1 x EGG DONATION CYCLE&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; 6450,00 euros

**This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites**


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## Vaudelin

Trolley - I just can't believe what your acu said.  My lady is so fantastic. She has a client who has just fallen pregnant naturally at 47 - my acu said she was shocked when she heard the news but it gives everyone hope doesn't it. 

I am not quite ready to go down the DE route just yet.  I have however been doing a bit of research and the best deal I can find in this country so far is £8,000 at the Bridge Centre in London - they currently have a 6 month waiting list.  If me and DH did go down that route I think however we would probably go abroad as it does generally seem to be cheaper (approx 4,000 Euros). 

  to everyone

xxxx


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## little lebowski

Trolley, a colleague of mine had her first (natural) pregnancy at 42 and her second at 44. This has always given me hope.
Some folk suggest 3 cycles of IVF before trying DE. The clinic I had IVF at were v keen on DE, and I was strongly advised to choose DE at the outset (cos of low AMH and age). I didn't because I wanted to give things a chance, my clinic was quite pushy about DE and I felt it may have been more to do with clinic stats than my chances (yes, I'm such a cynic). You are doing exactly the right thing, researching everything to do with DE, you'll be able to make an informed decision.
big hugs
xxx


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## MaisieCat

Hello again Ladies,

Soozy and  Trolley - I'm sorry to hear you've both been feeling so down.   
We can all really do without healthcare professionals giving us negative vibes.  Yes, the IUI and IVF stats are low for those  42+, but plenty of people conceive at that age.  My Mum was born when her Mum was 42, and so were my DH's Mum and Auntie (identical twins) and there was no IVF or the like in those days.  Every time I get a bit down about it, I think of them and it renews my hope, especially if I think about having some of my Nan's genes - if she could do it, why shouldn't I?  

After being a bit upset by what I thought were going to be unnecessary delays before I could re-start tx, I got to chat to my consultant and he was marvellous.  He understood all my concerns about wanting to fit more tx in before I hit 42 (June '11) and I now have an IUI booked to start mid-end Nov and, if that fails, an IVF cycle promised for January.  I really could not have asked for more.  I'm now therefore brimming with      and we're now TTC naturally with renewed vigour in the meantime   .  DH won't know what's hit him, poor chap!!!

Having only had one tx, I have no experience of what is likely to happen to your cycle the month after.  I'm still using my Clearblue digital monitor and it has had me peeing on sticks for the last 6 days, starting on day 8 of my cycle.  It's given me 2 bars for the last 4 days and I usually only have 2 2 bar days before it gives me 3 for my ovulation.  I'm now wondering if I'm going to ovulate at all this month   , which has never happened before.  Does anyone have any ideas/experiences they can share?  Would be a shame for all the    and    to go to waste if I don't ovulate   .

I am intrigued by what's available at the Spanish clinic.  They sound as though they have no shortage of egg donors at all over there.  I don't think it's something we will be considering, as DH is totally against it, despite the fact that my lovely sister has offered to donate and even to be a surrogate.  He just finds it too 'weird' and I don't think I'd ever persuade him otherwise.  I do admit to having my own reservations but, on the other hand, can totally understand why others may take that route and would probably go for it if DH had the same view.  As regards price, I just had a quick look at our clinic's price list and they quote over £5k for an IVF with donor egg and I'm not sure that includes drugs   .  That makes the Spanish clinic sound very reasonable.

I'm going to have a look at going to the fertility show too I think.  Would anyone fancy meeting up there?  Not sure I fancy it on my own.  Alternatively, might be able to persuade my sis.

    to all.

A-M
xx


----------



## hopehopehope

maisiecat - good luck for this month   
Sooz - sorry it was a bleed   
Trolley - keep up the pma - it wears you down doesn't it


----------



## Trolley

Hiya ladies,

Vaudelin & Little Leb - it's good to hear stories like that!

Maisiecat - it does takes a month for your cycle to settle and it's not unusual not to ovulate at all now and again.  Your body gets a real beating during IVF so it's good to give it a bit of a rest so that the good eggs can float to the top whe you ov, unlike tx when they just get a mix of good and bad when they collect.

Morning HHH!

Had a day off yesterday to spend with my DH's aussie cousin and her husnabd and baby.  I got home on Tuesday night and everything had been moved . .  they had baby proofed the place!  They have been travelling for 6 weeks so they had 3 HUGE suitcases which had exploded in the spare room plus the lounge was full of the baby's toys!  ARGH!!!  I cooked a huge roast and as we opened some wine DH's cousin announced that she couldn't drink any as she is 6 weeks PG - GULP!  She had conceived in Venice.  Like taking a bullett!

Had a lovely day in Brighton yesterday with them although we spent a lot of time looking at baby clothes/toys which was hard but what can you do :0)  Had lunch which they paid for - wasn't going to drink but really needed 2 Mojito's!!

T


----------



## hopehopehope

trolley - you're a braver lady than me - i can't cope with any baby stuff at the moment


----------



## MaisieCat

Thanks for the reassurance *Trolley.* The monitor detected ovulation the very next day, so I needn't have worried. It was a few days late, but at least it happened. I just have to hope now that some good eggs already 'floated to the top'. 

*LittleLeb* - Interesting what you say about it being about the stats for the clinic - I was in fact wondering if that very thing had worked in my favour. My clinic reckon they are very good with older women, although they have not had very many of us in recent months (my consultant showed me all the stats when I met up with him about my concerns the other week). Having been told by the nurse at my last consultation that my AMH levels are more like that of a 30 y.o. I wondered if that swayed the consultant's decision to push me through to try to get another success on their stats. I hope they're right, that's all I can say. However, having read elsewhere that you can easily have very variable AMH readings and that it's quite possible to have good levels and still poor quality eggs, I'm not quite so sure. Who knows?

Thanks for the kind wishes *Hopehopehope*. Sorry you're finding it hard at the moment. I'm finding these feelings seem to come in waves - fortunately I'm still on an 'up' at the moment - just as well really as I have all the in-laws and a 2 year old niece staying here at the moment. It's a jolly good job they weren't here a couple of weeks ago.

Best wishes to you all.

A-M
xx


----------



## little lebowski

No more good news from me I'm sorry to say. The scan today could not detect a heartbeat. Not sure what else to say really I just wish it were different. Guess it all seemed too good to be true. My partner sobbed his heart out at the scan & I just held his hand. Trying to hold it together as his parents arrived today for a week long visit (they don't know) and the hospital have given me a week before "intervention". Not sure what to wish for on that score.
I hope I'll be back here with better news one day soon.
Hugs to all 
xx


----------



## Bright Eyes

Little Leb - I am so so sorry.   I really do know how you feel as went through a similar thing earlier on this year. It is so devastating to be given something and have it so quickly taken away. Thinking of You both and sending    over the airwaves.

Bright Eyes


----------



## soozywong

Little Leb, I've just read your message and wanted to say how so sorry I am as well; have been wondering how you were getting on over the last few days, it's so heartbreaking.  I know a little how you feel as also had a m/c earlier this year.  Will be thinking about you, and hope it's not too difficult with his parents.

Lots of love and hugs

Sooz


----------



## Trolley

Little Leb - my heart goes out to you honey as I experienced the same thing last year.

Here is you need to talk :0(  Sending you hugs x


----------



## MaisieCat

Oh *LittleLeb*, I'm so sorry  . What sickening news.

I can't begin to imagine how you must be feeling. All I can do is send you some big  , I suppose. Nothing I can say is going to make this any better I know.

Thinking of you.
A-M
xx


----------



## hopehopehope

little leb    nothing we can say honey    i feel very very sorry for your situation. I had the same thing a few years ago after a natural bfp - going for that scan is heartbreaking. Time......


----------



## little lebowski

Thanks so much everyone for all the thoughts & good wishes. It means alot as I just can't talk about it to people, perhaps I'm being abit of a coward, just want to get through the next week without thinking too much about things. The parents are lovely, they got so upset about the last miscarriage which isn't very long ago, that we decided not to tell them about our recent news. Just a tad awkward now that they're here for the week & there may come a point where we have to tell them. 

My GP persists in calling this a "missed abortion" and my options are "termination" as used in abortion cases.  I lost track of how many times he used the phrase "abortion" this morning. Am I alone in finding this turn of phrase extremely insensitive, is my GP just being an idiot, am I being over-sensitive? I felt like shouting at him but knew it would end in tears, which are very close to the surface.

To cap it all, we got back from the scan to find the drains around our poor old house have collapsed and we are flooded. Happy days! So no proper drainage, toilets not working as you would wish them to, new drains to be dug and laid, and a miscarriage on the way judging by the pains I'm getting tonight.

Sorry for the whinging, things will improve, they can't get much worse can they?
x


----------



## MaisieCat

LittleLeb - I have just PM'ed you. xx


----------



## hope25

Hello All...hope you dont mind me joining...i am 42 and have been trying for nearly 4 years...in nearly 8 years of marriage I have only had 2 BFPs...the first little embryos heartbeat gave up at 8 weeks...the next was twins...one lasted 8 weeks and the other struggled through to the end and I had a dd in 2006....since then ...not a single bfp despite ttc very seriously every cycle. I had one ivf last year and got a bfp...only for it to be an ectopic....have been ttc naturally since...just read little lebs post and had to give my     

I dont understand why your GP is calling it a missed abortion...doesnt that mean you missed the abortion so its ok...shouldnt it be missed pregnancy...and anyway...abortion implies something you have done...i.e terminate the pregnancy...shouldnt he be saying miscarriage which is what yours was...not an abortion...let alone missed abortion...sounds like a woman going to abort her baby but misses the appointment..  

I hope you look on the bright side that atleast you can get pregnant naturally...so dont give up.

I just read that men who have sticky semen are infertile if more than 25% of their sperm are stuck together..they also say 25 million sperm is normal count in each ejaculation...so that means that if men have less than 15 million or so normal unstuck sperm they can impregnate their wives...but my dh only has 2 mill sperm at best anyway and its all sticky,,,,the solution is taking 1000mg of vit c which lessens the stickiness and improves sperm quality..

I am a firm believer in this as the only viable preg I had was when I pumped my dh with 10 different vitamins including a giant vit c tablet...since then he became complacent and insisted he didnt need vits and they were just hype....but now I am convinced of the results...as I have not had a single bfp for 4 years...when I am all fine and ovulating well etc...even at my ivf they said my eggs were good quality and my physiology was of a younger woman..i got 12 eggs -all good--

I wish I could take the vits for him....but am forcing him to take atleast vit c  if not the rest of the other vits...lets see what happens...

I think this will be my last ttc natural cycle before I turn to IVF again as there is definatley male factor probs 

Sorry to ramble on...I am 43 next month so time is ticking so loudly for me

Wishing all you girls the very best and hope to read some uplifting bfp posts very soon...and very often...amen

luv
hope xx


----------



## hopehopehope

hope 25  - i'm with you honey  - i'm 43 in January and have NO children    fingers crossed as i'm in the middle of second ivf after shed loadds of supplements (self med) and have many more follies than last time 
Good luck xxx


----------



## soozywong

Welcome Hope 25; I agree I think supplements for men can make a  big difference too - DH took a load after he'd had a low result and his count improved from 11 million to 40 million in 2 months, along with improved morphology and motility. 

HHH, how's it going?  How many follies have you got this time? That's great news.  Thinking of you.

I'm having a trauma with my cycles since the last IVF, last month period day 20, not sure if ov or not but had CM around day 8-12, this month tiny bit of CM day 8, now day 12 and none since and done ov sticks since day 9 and all negative so far.  Don't know WHAT is going on, have I ov'd already, not yet, or am I not going to at all.  It's driving me slightly mad.  I'm sure I read somewhere that IVF can push your body into early menopause and of course I'm paranoid that's what's happened to me. I've never had cycles like this before...

Trying to stay positive but it's hard.

Hello to everyone else, thinking of you LittleLeb.

Sooz


----------



## hope25

Hi all

thanks for the welcome

HHH...great to know you have more follies...what are you taking...i started dhea but gp was very nervous about me self medicating etc etc...my hair did fall out alot...small price to pay I say...I am sending you lots of baby dust....hope we get some...no lots...of BFPS on this thread soon

sooz...great re your dh sperm count...my dh sperm count is only 2 mill at best and he says thats fine..and not taking vits...why..well both these stubborn traits are the fault of drs...when I got pregnant...my gp said 'well it only takes one"..and my dh held onto his words despite the fact he also called my dd a miracle baby and that my egg and his sperm must have alot of affinity for me to get preg....but dh just keeps saying "it takes only 1"

As far as not taking vits anymore...we went to create clinic and the consultant there laughed when I told her I was giving my husband so many vitamins....she said "why so many"...from that day my husband thinks I am silly to do it and gave up...hence the 4 years of nothing...except BFNs month after month...thanks create...you really helped...NOT!!!   

Sometimes I wish our dh would realise that drs word is not the be all...and listen to us

My husband has started to take a couple of vit c tablets again...but its not enough...I want him to take co enz 10 and all the others too (zinc, seleniuim etc)...its male factor only that was our problem...my tests always show my hormones etc to be of a younger woman but whats the use when the other half is not playing ball...

Hoping we can all pull through...so      for all of us...BFPs please...even one from our age group making it is so uplifting and hope giving so let them roll in please God

lots of luv
hope25


----------



## little lebowski

hi all. I hope I'll be back one day soon TTC naturally but not just yet. I was hospitalised during a natural miscarriage & discharged today. Need to get over the trauma before TTC again & am feeling very weak, was about to have a blood transfusion but then the Syntocinon started to take effect. Will pop back from time to time to see how everyone's doing but i might not post for awhile, just need to rest. best of luck everyone. xxx


----------



## hopehopehope

little leb


----------



## MaisieCat

from me too LittleLeb. xx


----------



## soozywong

Little Leb, am sending you a big hug, I'm so sorry, I hope you are able to get some rest.  Will be thinking of you.  Sx


----------



## Loll

Little Leb  so sorry chick x

I don't post much these days but i do come on site and try keep up with your posts. It really is a struggle sometime to keep myself motivated and reading your stories makes me feel am not alone

Well today i am in a strange mood. I am day 24 of my cycle and so due on this weekend, its also my birthday this weekend and i will be 44  . I am hoping and praying that af does not arrive but it prob will. I even tested today and got a BFN, stupid of me really, i knew when i was buying it not to bother and even when peeing on it i knew it was a waste of time.

On a positive note i had a doctor's appointment today (stomach ulcer) and while there (feeling sorry for myself due to my B/Day approaching) i asked if he thought i should give up ttc and maybe use contraceptives so as to protect myself and future (if any) pregnancy from any nasty health risks. 
I was taken back when he started ranting on saying that i was not old and my eggs are still viable (due to them all fertilizing when under going ivf 7mth ago) and that i had every chance of still conceiving natural. He said that all though i had only one good fallopian tube and that did limit my chances the fact i had/have good eggs means i should continue until around April time next year. If i had not got pregnant by then and only then would he discuss any form of contraceptive or the possibility that it was time to stop. He said it was nonsense that women should perhaps not have babies in their 40's and as long as she had viable eggs then age was just a number. it didn't seem to bother him that all though my eggs might have been good 7 mths ago they may not now! which in all honesty is the way i am starting to think. Not sure if he was just being nice because he took pity on me or if he was a bit stupid haha. He is not my usual GP, he is a registrar and will be with my surgery until August next year. I would say he probley late 50's although i don't like to guess ages but he certainly was not young (pot calling kettle springs to mind lol). Anyway i did come away felling slightly more hopeful than i have been feeling and hopefully might make you younger girls fell a little more hopeful too x x
 As always  to everyone x x


----------



## soozywong

Thanks Loll for a bit of hope. 

How is everyone?  You've all been very quiet; maybe been on different threads?

I haven't been feeling very positive recently, thinking a lot about donor eggs and at what point I should give up and look at that route.  Very hard decision, I don't feel ready to give up yet on trying for own biological children, but also don't feel very hopeful either.

I feel like I'm thinking about it so much; it is such a hard journey.

Off to the fertility show on Friday - hopefully that will be useful. Anyone else going?

Sooz


----------



## hopehopehope

loll - how lovely to have someone say something posiitve at last. I am nearly 43 and am REALLY fed up with men telling me that my eggs are crap. they have done far less research into sperm and i think in time they will probably find that its DNA fragmentation of the sperm as often as it's the fault of eggs when we're a bit older. 
All this treatment has made me feel old and depressed. I saw my doctor today about bad back and got grief off him for going abroad for ivf!! My money - i can spend it where i like - i can't see as to why i want to pay an NHS hospital private hospital amounts of money when i can get it for half the price somewhere else.  *hole. 

rant over. .

Soozy - don't give up yet hon xox look at Celine Dion - she did 6 ivf's until she got twins last weekend and she's 42. 
maisiecat, hope25 hope all's wellxoxo


----------



## soozywong

Hi HHH

Have been wondernig how you've been getting on, and I see from your sig that you've got 2 grade 1 embies, that's brilliant news.  Hope the 2WW isn't too hard, I know what it's like.  Can't believe that about the doctor, outrageous.

My friend told me re Celine Dion - but she took 6 goes!!  Lucky her having lots of money.

Thinking of you...

Sx


----------



## little lebowski

Hi all, its so nice to come here and hear good news (Maisicat, I just pm-ed you  )
I'm still on bedrest. I'm worried I'll stay in this state permanently (will spare you the details but its not so good). xx


----------



## hopehopehope

soozy - that's why we went abroad - total cost for icsi inc drugs, hotels for a week and flights for two was £2600 - half the price of icsi at lister. we've had two goes there - that's saved us enough money for another two goes - though if this doesn't work we probably will do Lister for #3 then look to donor eggs. i talked DH into leaving sperm frozen at reprofit so that we can do donor without him having to go back - thought it might help him make up his mind! 
i am derpearetly hoping that this time has worked though  

Little leb - is this after the MC and hospital love to you


----------



## little lebowski

hi hhh
yeah, difficult to find the words but it feels like nothing will ever be normal again. I think I'm still in shock or something. Physical and emotional exhaustion plus extreme grief. It may sound odd & selfish but I can't stop thinking about the baby & pregnancy  (I still have my pregnancy symtoms, its so hard). Its like a bereavement except we have no-one to share it with, a very lonely time. We'd only just about let ourselves believe we were parents to-be - parents not-to-be now. I'm not sure that we're going to try again, it took such a long time to reach that point. Leaving a maternity ward with nothing has changed me & I don't think I'm the same person I was, its made me feel careful about what to wish for. 

Still its nice to come here & hear how everyone's getting on & hopefully one day, I'll be in a position to give support to you all as you have to me. x


----------



## Loll

Oh dear we have all certainly been through the ringer and some more that others but at least on FF we understand what the other is going through or been through it really is a rough road and nice to be able to share your thoughts with people who don't judge you.

I have not had a good day today at work. One of my colleagues a girl of 25 as become pregnant with her 1st child and with my 30yr old boss due in Dec (her 1st baby) there was a lot of baby talk, not that that is a problem it was what they said about me that hurt. As they was talking my boss turned to me and said oh its good job you're not pregnant or poor Chris would have a nervous breakdown with 3 pregnant women (Chris is a 26 yr old Assistant Manager) as this was said one of the other women said to me oh well that won't be happening now will it? So i told them what the nice Dr had said to me the other day and they went into a world of their own as if i was not their hearing them. Basically the conversation went on the lines of... How unprofessional it was of him to tell me to continue trying at my age the other saying i agree that was just so stupid to even think such a thing never mind to say it to her. One then turned to me and said did you tell him that you feel you're too old? to which i replied well i did ask if it was worth ttc any longer, and she said oh really (utter discuss written all over her face) Well, she then said you will probley be going through the change now or at least you will soon, so it really is irresponsible of him to give you false hope. To which i said i don't really want to talk about it and went for my lunch break. 
Some people have no idea what it's like or what it feels like to want a child and struggle to conceive or should i say what a older woman feels.

I must say SOD THEM ALL. It's my life not theirs, and at least i am in a happy stable relationship with a man who loves me for me and i him. If we want to share our love with a child of our own then who should judge me!

My boss is not at all happy with her DH and as said to me on a few occasions she would be better off alone, and the 25 yr old as only just moved into a rented house with her BF and have no monies what so ever and struggle.

Oh now am feeling bad i have wrote that last statement as i am sounding *****y, this is not like me at all. In fact i like my boss and the young girl is really lovely, so am sorry for the rant but needed to get that off my chest!!

As always  to everyone x x


----------



## hopehopehope

little leb - i felt like that after mc at around8 weeks - i felt especially bad as i had split up with 'father' and had no hope of trying again. luckily, less than 3 years later i was marries to the love of my life, but it's just a bit too late    as you know i am on 2WW at the moment and found myself yesterday wishing that they had made a mistake and put donor embies back in cos then i really might get a BFP. I am so desperate to have my baby.  Have you thought about donor? One of my oldest friends has 2 donor ivf embies on board as we speak so it makes it more normal for me, another firend had to use donor sperm as DH taddies not working. I just feel as though it's a new style of blended family.

Loll - as i said in my post before sometimes i think EVERYONE wants to have a dig at me - but now i see it's not just me, it's you too!! Welcome!! if i were you i'd take the day off tomorrow and sod 'em!!You just have to remember how much MORE wanted and loved your baby will be when it happens. As i said to Little Leb, have you thought about donor eggs??


----------



## Loll

HI all 
Hopehopehope, Your message just made me smile thank you for that and your warm welcome to your world lol    Yep this is a lonely road we lead and at times isolating form the people we care about due to ignorance on their behalf. Good job we found FF where there is other people in the same boat otherwise i think i would go round the bend lol 

As always   to all,  big congrats to all BFP and PUPO x


----------



## little lebowski

Hey HHH
Keeping everything crossed for you this time, its tough the 2ww & I really feel for you, but you know what they say, pregnant until proven otherwise!
Have thought about donor eggs, our clinic suggested it earlier this year when I had IVF. My partner would try anything if I am happy to, the trouble is I set my heart on using my own eggs & I'm not ready to go down the donor route. Never say never though!

Loll - often people say the most tactless things without thinking.  I find that "this is not a subject for discussion", usually works with colleagues. 

I'm looking for tips on how to handle tactless medical staff. My last scan a few hours after miscarriage, the consultant turned to me and said "I just hope it has all gone down the toilet" - I was really really shocked by this, too shocked to say anything of course. This is the same consultant that misdiagnosed a miscarriage at 4 weeks saying that "the sac was where the pregnancy had been" - this caused me acute distress & yet we went on to see the baby & heartbeat a week later. Most unfortunatley this consultant comprises 50% of the gynaecology team in our tiny local hospital. I really detest the way that medical staff are so desensitised to human emotion.
x


----------



## Loll

oh little leb Poor you my heart goes out to you thats just awful. There's not much can be said other than "hey k**b watch what your saying you heartless git" Sorry for the language but i am totaly taken back by what you have posted and totaly lost for words x x


----------



## MaisieCat

Loll,
I just read your post about what happened to you at work.  I just can't believe some people!  I've said tactless things totally by mistake in the past and then felt sick to the stomach afterwards, even though it wasn't deliberate.  These ladies must have no compassion at all.  To think such things is one thing, but to say them within your earshot is totally another.  I am utterly disgusted!  

I wish I could have been there to stick up for you and make them realise how insensitive they were being.  Oooh I'm SO cross!

I suppose all you can do is put it down to their ignorance.

OK rant over!

Big  .
A-M
xx


----------



## hopehopehope

hey maisiecat - how are you feeling?


----------



## Loll

Hi all
I am feeling more myself today and looking forward to my B/Day on Sunday (just not going to think about the number haha)

Soozywong - Keep positive hun x

Hope 25 - How are you doing? been a while since we chat x

Little Leb   

HHH - Good luck for the 9th hun x

Maisiecat - Thank you. (Asked how you was doing on the other site hun) x


----------



## soozywong

Hi Everyone

You've been busy today!  

Little Leb, my heart goes out to you, you're in such a tough place at the moment and it sounds like you've had such an awful time with the medical staff which just makes it even harder - I really relate to all that, I think they just don't understand how it feels, it is so so hard to have that precious hope taken away so cruelly, and as you say such a lonely experience.

Loll, glad you're feeling better today and hope you manage to have a good birthday, can't believe your colleagues could be so insensitive, its' hard enough being surrounded by people who are pg, let alone having to hear those sort of comments.

HHH  Thinking of you in 2WW.  DE is such a tricky one isnt' it.  Have been thinking about it a lot and think it's an amazing option but not willing yet to give up the dream of OE.  I'm sure it helps if you know someone else who's going through it, nearly all my friends are your "standard" happy families!!

Hello to everyone else.

Off to fertility show tomorrow so will bring back any top tips.

Sx


----------



## hopehopehope

have fun soozy - any tips gratefully received!! Would love to know what they thought of AMH levels going up.


----------



## MaisieCat

Hi all,

Just a quick post today.  Thanks for asking after me HopeHopeHope.  I'm OK.  Had a bit of a tummy upset this morning though and stayed off work, but it seems to have gone now.  Still no 'classic' pg symptoms though, apart from feeling extra tired yesterday afternoon (had a nap), but I think that might have been the tummybug getting going.

Love to you all.
A-M
xx


----------



## soozywong

Maisie Cat, congratulations, that's amazing, I hadn't realised till yesterday.

I went to Fertility show yesterday - found it a mixture of hopeful and depressing really.
HHH, sorry didn't get chance to ask about your AMH.

I did find the guy at the Lister (the head honcho) very impressive, the way that they do support older women to have IVF as long as they know what their chances are and some encouraging statistics.  Some of it I found a bit depressing in terms of some people's takes on our chances at this age with OE.

Picked up a good DVD from the Donor Conception Network about donor families which DH and I watched this morning which gave me some hope and also chatted to a couple of the Spanish donor places.

Also, some good stuff on managing relationships and mindbody stuff which I found helpful.  It's the emotional and mental side of this that I just find so hard.  An interesting statistic is that infertility is for 50% of women the worst things that's happened to them (definitely is for me), but only for 15% of men.  Also went to a talk on adoption and fostering but it's confirmed for us that that's not the route that feels right for us.

Right, I need to do some work (am doing a PGCE this year and got an essay to write).

Lots of love to you all.

Sx


----------



## hopehopehope

i sooz - i'm a teacher too! How did you manage to get a Friday off to go to fertility show!!

Still on 2ww
Still driving me mad - the progesterone especially

Had a bit of mild tummy aches yesterday, the feeling AF is on way, today it has gone. But last time had tummy ache 3 days before AF and today is 5 days before, so wouldn't expect it anyways. more importantly stiill have horrendous back pain and can't take tablets for it.    it is so bad it is definitely masking Af spymptoms so i can't tell.


----------



## soozywong

Hi HHH

2WW is so hard isn't it, every little indication and you want to interpret it, and the worst thing is that pg symptoms and AF symptoms can feel the same.  My last 2WW in Sept my boobs were really sore and then about 2 or 3 days before AF due they just stopped being sore and I somehow just knew it hadn't worked. Really sorry to hear about your back pain - is that to do with fertility stuff or something completely separate - horrible.

What do you teach? I teach adult numeracy, and currently only teach once a week on Wed night (and work in social care policy at the council rest of the time). Am doing 2 years part time PGCE on Thurs night and have Fridays off to do all the studying involved, so conveniently took that for the Fertility Show and am now having to work all weekend as punishment!

Thinking of you in the next few days....

Sx


----------



## little lebowski

MAisiecat, I had awful awful lower back pain the day before my BFPs, so you never know, maybe a good sign for some. I also had what I thought was either a tummy bug and/or AF starting about 4 days after I got my last BFP & thought it was all over & it wasn't. I didn't have sore boobs til about 4 or 5 wks pregnant but what I did have was all manner of gastric upsets, sudden stomach cramps (not period pain, actual stomach pains), sleepless nights from pain under my ribs, groin pain, constipation, bloating, dizziness, crushing fatigue - lovely! but I do miss it.

You seem v calm, its definitely the best way to be if you can. I was off my head on my 2ww after IVF, even after my BFP, & now I only wish I had taken time to be kinder to myself, pace myself, and let myself just enjoy the moment following a BFP. At the time if anyone had said this to me, I'd have thought they were barking mad, I was simply terrified. 

Keeping absolutely everything crossed for you xxx


----------



## MaisieCat

Thanks for the congrats *Soozy*.  It IS amazing isn't it! 41 and and half year old eggs CAN do the business!

Sounds like you found the fertility show useful. Shame you have lots of work to do now to make up for having the day off.

Yes I am strangely calm, *LittleLeb*! It's driving DH nuts  . After all the symptom spotting and paranoia during the 2ww after my IUI, I think he was expecting more paranoia from me now I'm pregnant! I suppose I am quite a chilled person about a lot of things other people find stressful - I never worried a jot about exams at school for example - nor do I get worked up about interviews. I just get stressed about stupid trivial things instead  . _Que sera sera.
_ 
Love to all.
A-M
xx


----------



## hopehopehope

still got awful backpain - having to take paracetemol so i can walk. Still have sore b's.


----------



## MaisieCat

Oh you poor thing  hopehopehope!  I do hope the back pain subsides soon.


----------



## Loll

Morning all. Hope everyone is well.

Well AF arrived Friday and was heavy all weekend seems to have calmed down this morning. I did'nt let it spoil my birthday and had a lovely day yesterday and was a little spoilt from DH and the family. Anyway i have decided not to take the chinese herps as i dont think they help. I will continue to eat healthy and try some sperm friendly lub for a while and just see what happens.

HHH- Fingers and toes crossed for your test date tomorrow x

As always    to all x


----------



## little lebowski

Dear hope hope hope,
hang on in there, keeping my fingers crossed for you. 

Loll,  

I'm thinking I'm going for more acupuncture. I only had it twice but thought it helped. I've had a headache for 12 days now and can hear a pounding noise in my head, sounds like my pulse, nothing will shift it, GP says its probably anaemia so waiting for blood tests results.

Anyone else had probs. with employers? I wish I had never gone back to work - because my employer didn't follow occupational health advice to reduce my hours, work from home as much as poss. I got really stressed & felt ill because my workload was heavier than it was when I was fulltime, so my GP wrote to my emplyer to emphasise how important it was for my health to follow the advice given. Occupational health got really annoyed with my management and said I was to stay off work until my duties were reduced. Then there was no heartbeat & I had the miscarriage, can't help wondering if stress was a factor? 

Now my employer is sending me for a capability assessment with occupational health, the vibe is that my management do not think at my age I could really have been pregnant! I've been off work quite abit due to complications following miscarriage in July, then the most recent one. I always thought in pregnancy these days women had better employment rights, evidently not!


----------



## hopehopehope

little leb - that's truly awful - what do you do? Sexism, age descrimination, it's all in there. Keep postive, any proper occ health person will know it's all a load of ******** and of course you can't do your job after what you've been through

Loll - though you'd written chinese herpes which gave me a giggle

maisie - thanks for all your support

Well today was 13 days post EC and i tested and it was a BFN. boobs still sore, no spotting so there's still a tiny chance. But i think my progesterone is really high due to the pessaries and also i had 2 extra pregnyl shots, one on ET day and one last Sunday so that is probably takng a while to drop. enough to say i am absolutely devastated. DH away till saturday, which is why we tested this morning - but after that i had to leave for work 30 mins later adn i was still sobbing. 
have good friend coming round at 6 so i am holding back tears till then.


----------



## MaisieCat

Oh *Hope*, I'm SO sorry. Big  . And your DH away too. Hope your friend is helping you to feel a little better. You are right though, there is still a chance.   

*Loll* - I assumed you meant 'herbs', but it was a slightly unfortunate typo  .

*LittleLeb* - Oh, blimey.  You have just put all my little gripes right down to the bottom of the pecking order (I've posted some moans elsewhere today). I now feel so lucky that I'm supported at work (hospital catering dept.). I can't believe that they may now be doubting you were pregnant! I want to just come round there and give them some    . I do hope occy. health stay on your side and set the management straight.

Cheerio for now, I need food!

Lots of love and  
A-M
xx


----------



## Loll

So sorry about the typing mistake (still having a giggle about it myself) glad it caused a few smiles though.

Little Leb. That really is awful, i hope they get put stright  bloody idiots   

HHH. So sorry for you chick. Hope this week passes quick so your DH will be home with you soon    

Maisecat. Hope your still feeling well chick


----------



## soozywong

Hi

HHH, I'm so so sorry to hear your news, have been thinking about you, and must be really hard without DH around; hope you had a good cry with your friend yesterday.  So impressed you went straight to work, I tended to have a day off or work from home (which I realise you can't do as a teacher).  Hope you have good support around in the next few days.

Loll, glad you managed to have a good birthday.  I'm just starting again with the "herps", although think they're a mixture of chinese and western.

Little Leb, I can't believe that about your employers, that's terrible.  Hope your OH sorts it out.  Very stressful.

Maisie Cat, hope you're feeling OK.

Well, I got my period yesterday - at least back to a normal cycle, it was day 29, but of course I was harbouring a hope that maybe this cycle... as I'd heard that the first couple after IVF you can be more fertile, but sadly not to be.  We got some "Yes Baby" from the fertility show which is some new lub type stuff; who knows if it makes any difference.

  to everyone.

Sx


----------



## Trolley

Hi Ladies,

Sorry I have been awol but been having a tough time at home :0(

Had the ozzie rellies for 3 weeks in total which was hard but DH and I haven't been getting on so TTC has been at the back of my mind.

To remain sane I have been out lots with friends partying which included lots of birthday drinkies and stuff.

Hoping things will improve soon . . .

I will try and catch up on all your posts over the next few days but in the meantime take care

T
x


----------



## hopehopehope

Hi trolley - welcome back!!!

FYI i am now 14 days post EC, tested bfn yesterday, but still no AF or spotting, but do have headache and tummy ache. Desperately hoping that it's not AF on way and that i'll get a bfp by weekend


----------



## soozywong

Hi Trolley

Was wondering how you were - sorry to hear things have been tough.

HHH, really hope you get BFP by the weekend...

Hello to everyone else.

Sx


----------



## little lebowski

Dear HHH
Its so agonising (waiting) I know, but it sounds as if its not all over just yet! 
On my 2ww after IVF think I tested on day 8,9,10,11 - all BFNs until day 14. Wasn't the 9th Nov your test date (today?). I'm hoping like mad for you that it'll turn out a BFP.  

Trolley - 3 weeks of rellies is a huge strain on anyone no matter what the circumstances, you're both amazing so give each other a wee hug. Ours were here 9 days and though we all get on really well, the timing could not have been worse - so it was rather strained, I don't know who was more relieved when they were on their way. I just felt I had had my brave face on for way too long, the cracks were starting to show.

Soozywong  - sorry its not to be this cycle. Thanks for your post to me. I'm not sure I responded to everyone yet - its been abit of a blur over the past couple of weeks. I'm feeling abit better but no energy, insomnia not helping, having disturbing dreams, well, nightmares actually, when I do manage a kip (very unlike me). Thinking of going away for a few days on my own, probably do me good.
lots of love to all xxx


----------



## hopehopehope

quick update fo trolley sooz lolll maisie and little leb  

today 15 days post EC 12 days post 3 day ET

1. too scared to test today (sorry ladies)
2. no AF or spotting
3. sore boobs no longer sore
4. headache for 2 days
5. dull ache in tummy since last friday (6 days now)
6. Ran out of utrogestan so swapped to cyclogest, but could only get 400, so now taking 2 of those so that's 800 
    day.I hope that's not going to mean i 'hold onto' a bfn
7. Had probs with temp as ear themometer keeps giving wildly different readings. oral thermom said 37 this  morning.  Not much good at charting!!

8. Massively anxious - heart is literaly racing  , resting pulse is about 80!! As soon as i start to think about it i can hear my heart pounding.


Sorry to trouble you with all this - it's just with DH away till Saturday and working evenings, i have no-one to talk to (i told all my friends it was a bfn after mondays test)


----------



## little lebowski

Hope hope hope
Sorry its such a scarey anxious time, the waiting is just so horrible I know, I do think you've tested too early though but I do know what the wait is like & its completely natural to want to test asap. When I look at your profile, you are such a strong person & I'm full of admiration for you & your determination. Its no picnic to get to this point, you've done really really well. We're all rooting for you. x


----------



## little lebowski

Hope hope hope
one other thing, I noticed before both my recent BFPs I'd a headache, a kind of headache I hadn't had before - sort of at the back of my head low down, v. painful.
x


----------



## hopehopehope

thanks little leb - it's horrible being on my own , magnifying my symptoms!!


----------



## little lebowski

Och HHH, don't worry its natural & comes with the territory, though best not to look too much at symptoms. The body can be a strange thing. I had no classic symptoms with BFPs, I googled and obsessed over every last little detail of symptoms on web forums. I only recognised the distinctive headache the second time around & in fact thats what made me do a test the second time. I think I did have funny pains one night & thought it was AF on the way, now think that may have been implantation - it was really painful though & not what I expected, something like bad period pain plus abdominal cramps, thought I had food poisoning!
x


----------



## soozywong

HHH, this is such a difficult time for you, as Littleleb says symptoms can be so hard to judge as they do seem to vary hugely.  On the thermometer thing I tend to just use a digital one in my mouth and seems to give good readings, but again I know it's not completely reliable.  The waiting is bad enough as it is but even harder with your DH away.  Will you wait to do another test until he gets back?  Hope you're managing OK at work, so hard to focus isn't it when such a massive thing going on.

LittleLeb I'm glad to hear you're starting to feel a bit better.  Where are you thinking of going away to?

Hello to everyone else.

Lots of love

Sx


----------



## hopehopehope

lost plot with a naughty class today and walked out of work!
still have tummy ache - in fact it woke me up at 5 in the morning. 
That's 7 days of tummyache now. 
Tomorrow marks 14 days post 3 day ET.
Am testing on Saturday afternoon (will collect AM urine) when DH is home. 

Thank you all SO much for the support over this, i have needed it more this time than the last ivf - and all that on a
conceiving naturally thread!


----------



## Loll

Oh HHH wish i could give you a big    right now, no point saying try not worry and relax because i know that is impossible chick so all i will say is we your ff are thinking about you and with you every step of the way. XX


----------



## MaisieCat

Oh dear HHH, it's all getting to you isn't it.  You poor love.  It is SO stressful waiting to test.  The drugs cause so many symptoms themselves, that it's probably impossible to spot 'real' pg symptoms.  I think the 'real' ones are pretty subtle (although that is only my experience) - I noticed absolutely nothing (and still have no symptoms to speak of).

At least your AF is not rearing her ugly head.  That has got to be a good sign, surely.  I know it's pretty much impossible (as Loll said), but do try to relax and turn your mind to other things (preferably nice things   ).

Thinking of you and sending warm   and   .
A-M
xx


----------



## hopehopehope

thanks girls x am now convinced it will be a bfp as on last ivf i was bleeding 2/3 days ago


----------



## Mish3434

HHH, I have everything crossed for you tomorrow        I'm away over the weekend but I'm looking forward to logging on Sunday and seeing a lovely BFP from you

Shelley xx


----------



## soozywong

HHH, Sending you lots of love and got everything crossed.     Definitely a good sign AF not yet appeared.

AFM ,has anyone else had the experience of AF getting shorter.  It doesn't seem any lighter overall just more in the first couple of days, then this month practically nothing on day 3 and nothing on day 4.  All very odd. Has been getting increasingly like this over the last couple of years. Hoping it doesn't matter too much but doesn't feel very good.  Going to see my acupuncturist today and will see what she says.

Love to everyone.

Sx


----------



## hopehopehope

thanks mish and Sooz - went to work and came home after 20 mins as had brown streak after using pessary this morning. After that have had very very very light pinkish-ness when i wipe (tmi sorry) Am just staying lying down in case that helps - temp 37.5


----------



## MaisieCat

Hi all,

Sorry if I've missed anything, but haven't had time to catch up properly.

*Soozywong* - About short AFs - I only really started to take a lot of notice about how long mine were when I started to TTC, but since then mine have always been quite short. Also, I started using a 'mooncup' instead of tampons and that made me much more aware of what was going on down there. I would have a day or maybe 2 of what I would call 'warning' discharge (browny stuff) then 'proper' day 1 would be suddenly much heavier. Days 2 and sometimes 3 would be similar to day 1, but day 4 definitely subsiding and by day 5 just residual spotting. So this doesn't seem much longer than what you are getting now.

I suppose I don't worry about it because mine had always been like that (when I was paying close attention anyway), but it seems quite normal to me. Were yours a lot longer before? I personally think it's fine, but you could always ask your GP if you are worried.

*hopehopehope* - Ooh I'm still  for you. I suppose you have peed in your pot by now and are anxiously waiting for DH so you can do the 'deed'.    and good luck. xx

AFM - I now have an early scan booked for 23rd Nov - the same day as my first midwife appt so DH only has to have one day off to be there for both. Hope you don't mind hearing pg updates/news, but I'm hoping that, given I'm an 'oldie' success story, it will help give you some hope rather than make you upset. Please do say if you'd rather I kept quiet - I'll understand and will just pop back to support where I can instead  .

Love and  
A-M
xx


----------



## hopehopehope

bfn - totally gutted


----------



## Vaudelin

HHH - sending you        unfortunately I know how you feel xxxxxxxx


----------



## hopehopehope

oh Vaudeline, thank you. I'm devastated, the whole 'what's the point in life' and everything. I so wanted my own baby. I feel very angry with everyone, blaming DH cos he wont stop smoking and the fact that if we hadn't split up between ages 30 and 41 because he was too immature, then we could have had a family.


----------



## soozywong

HHH

Am SO SORRY to hear your news; it is just so so hard and I really do know it feels but we've also all got our own histories and I know that can make it additionally hard too.  I really hope you're able to give yourself the space and time you need, maybe take a couple of days off work if you need to? I really understand having such a strong feeling of really wanting your own baby - it's a very powerful drive.  Sending you lots of     .

MaisieCat, thanks for your experience re AF.  I asked acupuncturist and she said not to worry too much as long as it's not too light.

Sx


----------



## Loll

OH HHH feel gutted for you       so soory chick x


----------



## MaisieCat

So so SO sorry HHH.  I really don't know what else I can say.  
Big  .
A-M
xx


----------



## Mish3434

HHH,  Feel totally gutted for you       

Shelley x


----------



## hopehopehope

thanks Shelley - maisie - loll and sooz. This is SO much harder on ivf#2 than #1.
Appointment with Lister on 3rd Dec.


----------



## hope25

Hello All

I am sorry I have been away for a while...its just since my last post I checked this thread a few times and it seemed no one was posting...now I look and its really busy again...glad to see us girls back--have tried to catch up with all the posts

Loll..thanks for the pm...have pm'd you back...my blood boiled when I heard about the numb skull bints at your work...did they loose their grey cells whilst sneezing...    

Thought your GP was so sweet...and he IS RIGHT...my family friend got married for the first time at 46 and a year later she was pregnant..naturally (she tells me everything and wouldve had no qualms telling me if it was ivf)...and at 48 gave birth to a healthy baby girl who had the distinctive features of her family and was the spitting image of her maternal cousin. You ARE still years away from her age...dont give up..take vitamins..I swear by them..they really improve the quality of eggs. I too had a birthday this month..last Sunday to be precise...am 43 now...need to change my signature on here...AGAIN  

Little Leb...your management...how dare they   ..im lost for words...you are only 42..and they doubt your recent pregnancy....arghhhhhhhhhhhh...just try and put it out of your mind...no point stressing yourself and ruining your health..we are here for you...keep smiling chic  .

HHH..so sorry hun    the 2ww, and OTD is hell..I know...during my ectopic last year i thought i was BFN..then slight BFP..then alot of BFP..then hcg levels dropped...its horrible...I am so sorry...I know exactly what you have been through..dont give up...I am starting again at Lister too...might bump into you...will send you     across the waiting room  

maisiecat--you are our star...our hope , our inspiration...our goal...dont desert us...please do stay with us ,...i hang on your every word and its makes me feel so good to have a pregnancy on our thread...we want all the updates...please...this our special baby and I pray it grows so well...   ...looking forward to the next scan.

I know there are alot of us here and I am sorry I havent mentioned everyone..there was alot to catch up on and I am so sorry if I have the wrong scenario with the wrong name as I am writing from memory after a massive read....

I have decided to have another go at ivf as in these 4 long years ttc naturally for a sibling for my very very lonely dd who keeps pestering me daily re her missing brothers and sisters...I have not had a single BFP other than my one attempt at IVF last november which ended in an ectopic...have been ttc naturally since..but nothing...

Have bitten the bullet..and credit card..and decided to give it another go at Lister...I know this is a thread for ttc naturally...and Ive tried..but as you are all in my age group I would be grateful if i could stay here with you all ..I need some hand holding through this next ivf...would it be ok if i stay? I am starting my injections from tomorrow to get multiple eggs to grow..I   they grow..lots of them..healthy ones...

I wish lots o bfps on here...lots and lots for everyone
luv to all
hope25 
xx


----------



## MaisieCat

Hope25,

What a lovely thing to say!  I'm really touched.  You fair brought a tear to my eye.   

It's lovely to think that I could be an inspiration to anyone.  I just feel so very lucky and have been a little concerned that coming back to this TTC thread with ongoing pregnancy news might be upsetting for some.

If people are happy that I stay, then I see no reason why you can't.  It'is lovely to chat with people in the same age group, regardless of what stage they're at or how they are going about it.  I won't go anywhere if you don't!

I'll keep watching for new posts and give support where I can and will (so long as no-one else minds) let you all know how my scan goes on Tuesday.

Love and   to all.

A-M
xx


----------



## Loll

Hi All

Hope25 - lovely to hear from you and thank you for the pm. I certainly dont mind you been here and am glad your back on the ivf road. Wishing your af comes soon so you can get started on the meds chick. Be great to hear how things go for you so please keep us posted x x oh just going back to your pm... you are loved and thought of and hopefully you will be giving us all some positive news in the near future x x

Maisecat - i agree with Hope25 its great your still on this site you really do give us all some hope that it can and does happen x x

As always    to all x


----------



## MaisieCat

Ahhh.  Thanks Loll.
A-M
xx


----------



## little lebowski

hi all
Been away for a week so still catching up. 
*Hope hope hope,* so sorry to hear your news, you're in a tough place & anyone who's been there would be angry and in pain . And I know its not much help when folk say they know how you feel. It kind of helps and doesn't at the same time. For me personally, I decided its hard enough to deal with this kind of pain anyway, such intense grief and loss and sorrow & so difficult to articulate it to other people, so I said to my partner lets not make it any harder than it has to be, lets try and not be tough on ourselves or each other. Sometimes I haven't felt like that & I do feel intense rage at the unfairness - am only human! 
*
Maisiecat*, of course you should stay on this thread. Reading your recent posts brought a little tear to my eye, (it would have been my 12 week scan yesterday). I/others still want to hear all your news so please please stay with us!

*Hope 25*
I appreicate the support - it just got worse at work. I've had a horrid letter asking me to sign a disclaimer to say I have refused a service that was offered to support me in my return to work when I was pregnant, the thing is it was never offered to me! 
I'm really upset about this. Its just been awful (work), so am now considering whether or not I should leave. When I returned to work pregnant, following my recent miscarriage, my GP and occupational health recommended reduced hours and duties/ My manager then formally referred me to occupational health because I got stressed when she gave me too much work for my reduced hours, I just couldn;t do everything & occ health told me to stay off work. I then had the miscarriage. The referral appt was yesterday and I got really upset and ended up feeling really really down because the doctor said "you are making yourself ill staying at work, you should think about the fact that you have only one life and that your manager is not going to change so why go back to work" -am I making myself ill, I don't agree at all. I just wanted to be treated humanely rather than inhumanely? so I was feeling so awful after this I went to see my GP who gave me Temazepam (!), don;t think I will take it anyway but it seems really unfair to be treated so shoddily by work on top of what I've just been through. Looks like I'll be jobless pretty soon & if I take the chill pills, zombified too.

Sorry for the whining! I'll stop now ...


----------



## Loll

Little Leb - Aww hun some people are just so    and it makes me feel    at their thoughtlessness. Rather than leaving maybe you should just go back on the sick until your feeling more like your self and able to cope alittle better. At least you can then keep your options open for a while regagrding work. Do what ever you feel is right for you and sod them all. Sending you lots of    

Love 
Loll


----------



## hope25

Oh..Littleleb..how awful...if they want you to sign this declaration ...just refuse on the grounds that no service was offered in the first place..could you discuss this with someone at work..occ health or someone you can trust who will give you the right advice...I agree with loll..keep your options open.

How is everyone ...i started my ivf meds last thursday and on friday came down with a massive cheat infection...i thought i was dying..couldnt breathe..hope I get better soon as I doube they will do ec if they are not able to put me under safely.

Will be off for a follicle scan on wed..hope i am well enough to brave the weather

hope it doesnt go quiet on here again
come on girls  
luv
hope25xx


----------



## MaisieCat

I love this thread - can't let it go too quiet   .  It's so much nicer than the big 'baby' thread I've been posting on occasionally.  There are just too many people on there now and I just can't keep up.

I just can't believe what a rough time you are having LittleLeb.  I think you should refuse too.  I assume they are trying to cover themselves, so why should you co-operate if you are in the right.  Loll and Hope are right, you should try to keep your options open.  If you leave of your own free will, you've let them 'off the hook'.  I wonder if Citizens Advice can help you with advice on where you stand?

Good luck for your follicle scan Hope25.  Hope the weather isn't too bad.

Hope everyone else is OK too.

AFM - Sickness has well and truly set in   .  I won't call it m/s, cos it's not just mornings.  I know I mustn't complain, but feeling like I'm both hungover and travel-sick at the same time, almost all of the time is no fun.  The only time I haven't felt sick today so far was when I was eating my lunch (veggie haggis, sweetcorn and veggie gravy - yep, weird lunch, I know - it's just what I fancied!) and for about half an hour afterwards.  Now I'm back to feeling full-up and hungry at the same time.  Oh the joys! 

Will pop back tomorrow afternoon (if can stay awake!) and let you know how the scan and m/w appt went.

Heaps of love and   to all

A-M
xx


----------



## little lebowski

Hi all

Hope hope hope, thinking of you 

Maisiecat, nice to hear your news. Sorry you're feeling abit ick but its all worth it. M/S doesn;t describe it at all I agree. Mine was worse at night and during the night, better after eating, but then you don't feel much like eating when you're ick do you? I kinda miss it.

Started ovulation tests again yesterday & am not sure I want to ttc again yet cos I feel so stressed, keep thinking maybe its not a healthy time. On the other hand we've been ttc for about 5 yrs, so a life that consists of not ttc & not charting & not monitoring CM seems abit alien to me. My dear doctor said at my last appt _"probably best to wait 6 weeks after miscarriage at least but then you have so little time left anyway you'd maybe better not wait too long ..." good grief!_ So am now swithering between panic about time running out and fear about not being able to get pregnant/having another miscarriage & how to cope with either scenario.

Think I'm going to take everyone's advice and stay off sick for now. No sickpay though so not too chilled about that aspect. I made a complaint about bullying at work & it seems this is the backlash. Don't see why I should be penalised but hey-ho! Sorry to drone on, its just really bugging me.
Love to all xxx


----------



## hopehopehope

little leb - you're not droning at all, you haven't been treated well - how long have you worked there??
i'm with you on the TTC and tes stick business. I'm on day 10 now and DH wont be here till Friday late night no day13.

Not sure whether to bother testing or not - just do it Fri Sat Sun until he's away again on Monday- nothing else to do!!testing seems  to add stress. as this is my first cycle after ifv i'm not sure when it willlbe anyway. 

Hello to everyone xx


----------



## little lebowski

Hi hopehopehope
I have worked there nearly 2 yrs.
After my IVF in the summer I had a few problems and so didn't bother testing til Day 25 cos I didn't think anything was happening & my IVF clinic told me 2 weeks after my IVF cycle that my ovaries were "dormant" & had no follicles. 

Anyway I started testing on Day 25 after IVF cos I felt sure there were signs of fertile CM despite what the clinic said - I went through 3 different brands of different ovulation tests each day with varying results, which meant we ttc over a longer period of time because each test was telling me different results. Anyway I got pregnant that cycle after IVF and must have conceived between Days 26-31. So much for the IVF clinic's opinion! My cycle is usually a regular 28-29 day cycle so the IVF did throw it out abit.

I'm on Day 28 now (after miscarriage) and thought the same thing was happening again, signs of fertile CM the last few days but this time I only have First Response ovulation tests and am getting negatives on these. I'm just using the ovulation tests for the moment to try to confirm what I think are my other ovulation signs, I do think the CM seems the most reliable sign - for me anyway.  So  based on my previous experience I'm not going to rely totally on the ovulation tests alone.
Bon chance!


----------



## MaisieCat

Hi ladies,

I promised I'd come back on to tell you my news so here I am.

It's not brilliant I'm afraid.  I have posted the full story elsewhere but, to cut a long story short, they found a sac with something in it (it was not at all clear) and no heartbeat.  I've been told to go back in a week or so for another scan.

Spoke to m/w on the phone who said she'd try to get me another scan on the NHS (we paid for today's one), but she needs a 'clinical' reason to refer me.  She's going to speak to my GP and see if she can get it on the grounds that it's needed for dating.  She thinks my dates could be wrong because of the IUI drugs I had the month before.  My first full day of bleeding for my LMP was 1st October and my Clearblue Monitor gave me 3 bars on the 13th and 14th after 4 2 bar days.  The digital HPT on 29 Oct said 2-3 weeks.  She seems to think this could all be misleading and I might have actually concieved later than we think.  She did say to do another test, which I did and was still positive (3+ weeks).

I'm trying not to worry - I'm still feeling ever so sick, very tired (slept half the afternoon) and have sore, heavy boobies - also no sign of any bleeding at all.  Just hoping that the dates are all wrong or babe is a little bit of a slow starter   .

Hopehopehope - I kept having that trouble too - DH being away at crucial times.  What a nuisance.  Last time we were so determined that he even managed to do the business after a migraine cos he didn't want us to 'miss the boat' - poor love - I did feel a bit mean and it wasn't exactly romantic.  The things we do eh?

LittleLeb - I agree, you are not droning.  Sometimes we all need an 'outlet' for all the c**p in our lives.  Living your life around ovulation tests and the inevitable stress at the end of each month is not easy.  We have all been there and your work issues cannot be helping one bit.  Let it all out - we're here with those cyber    for them and    for you.

Love to all.
A-M
xx


----------



## little lebowski

Oh Maisiecat,  thanks for posting your news. Sorry its not clearer whats happening but its still really really early. Having had early scans, I'm now not sure I would be as keen to do that again cos it made me feel really tense every time when there was nothing except the sac, & on about the 3rd scan one doctor said the sac was where a pregnancy had been & then it turned out that he was wrong.  I then paid for a private scan by a Professor and "expert" in the field (I didn't tell anyone, not even you lot! sorry!!) and he said it wasn't good news, nothing seen in the sac. I couldn't understand it as I had pregnancy symptoms. Then the following week there was a h/b. It had just been too early to see anything before. They kept scanning me every week because I'd had recently had IVF, then miscarriage, and like you, the dates weren't clear so I imagine you should be able to get more scans on the NHS on that basis.

So take your time, its really early - get second, third opinions if you can. Keeping everything crossed.  
xx


----------



## MaisieCat

Oh I do hope you are right, LittleLeb.

The m/w did sound as though she was going to try hard to get another scan for me.  As she said, they're going to have to do something in order to get my dates right for all the scans/tests that are date-sensitive.  Trouble is I work for our local NHS trust and know that there are cuts and financial pressures everywhere.  No wonder she is having to justify any scans.  Hopefully when I ring tomorrow to tell her about the still postive test, there'll be some progress.
Thanks for the kind words and support.
A-M
xx


----------



## little lebowski

Maisiecat, do they monitor hcg levels at your clinic/docs? when there was nothing showing on my scans they kept checking hcg and it was going up all the time, ended up at 86,000 or something, the consultant said that meant pregnancy was developing even though nothing except the sac was on the scan. x


----------



## MaisieCat

LittleLeb,

No, they haven't mentioned that at all.  I suppose they must have gone up though (isn't that what the HPT tests look at) or I wouldn't have had a more advanced HPT test reading?

I did read our Trust's maternity protocol documents which say mums-to-be over 40 will have consultant-led treatment, so perhaps a consultant will get involved and sort this all out.  

Thanks again
A-M
xx


----------



## little lebowski

hi Maisiecat
By HPT - do you mean home pregnancy test? done by urine sample? if so, then we are talking about different things, I meant by a quantitative hcg test, some clinics/GPs do this routinely. My consultant requested whats known as _serial quantitative hcg tests_, which meant I had to have a blood test every 2-4 days, to measure hcg levels in the blood, it should double roughly every 2 days gives info on how early pregnancy is progressing.
x


----------



## soozywong

Hi

Sorry haven't been on for ages, combination of feeling low, and having lots of work, am being observed tonight teaching, so need to get preparing in a minute.

MaisieCat, so sorry to hear that you're got such uncertainty.  It does sound like there's promising signs but so hard not knowing what's going on.  I hope you're able to get another scan soon on the NHS.  Thinking of you; such a hard time.

LittleLeb, so sorry that everything at work such a nightmare, look after yourself, and don't take any rash decisions, which is what I think everyone else has been saying.

HHH, hello, hope you're starting to feel a little bit better.

Really relate to all discussions re ov, 3 months after IVF and I still don't know if ov this month or not (day 16), nothing on ov sticks - well V. faint yesterday (but don't think they're very good ones), temperature hasn't yet gone down (as usually does with LH surge) and not much CM, a little bit in last few days.  Driving me slightly mad.

Anyway, lots of love to all of you, sorry not to be in touch more but have been following all your news.

Sx


----------



## MaisieCat

Ah, LittleLeb, we are talking about different things then.  I haven't had any blood tests at all yet.

Thanks for the kind words Soozywong.  I do now have a scan at the local EPU, which the m/w has managed to arrange, but it's not until 7th December at 5  p.m.  I'll just have to concentrate on no news being good news in the meantime and try to forget I had the scan yesterday.  I still have most of my symptoms, although the sickness isn't quite as bad today.

Love to you all.
A-M
xx


----------



## little lebowski

*Maisiecat,* it might be worth asking about quantitative hcg in the meantime. When I had mine it did provide some extra clinical signs about what was happening.
*Soozywong, *nice to hear from you. Do you chart your temps, I do using online software at: http://www.fertilityfriend.com/ - I found this really helpful in pinpointing whether ovulation is taking place or not. Sometimes I am not sure about the ovulation sticks accuracy because I've had such different results on my mini-trial of different brands.

Someone asked me ages ago where I was going for a break. I went to a group of remote Scottish islands, there are 67 in the archipelago so see if anyone can work that one out!
Cheers all
xx

/links


----------



## MaisieCat

Littele Leb - I'm a bit worried about pestering the m/w or doctors about tests.  I don't want to get labelled as a whinger  .  They never seem very impressed when you ask about things you've found out about  for yourself - seem to think you're trying to do their job for them.  I'll see what DH thinks when he gets home.

By the way, those remote Scottish Islands sound wonderful - I really love that idea, apart from think about how you'd actually get there.  I assume it's boat rather than plane - and I get seasick really badly


----------



## little lebowski

Hi Maisiecat, My GP does a qualitative HCG test as standard practice following a positive HPT to confirm any pregnancy, IVF-related or not. I've had both the qualitative and quantitative test each time, straight after my HPT and then the quantitative type between scans. As I'm north of the border maybe clinical practice is different here? I doubt you'd be labelled a whinger but maybe theres other explanations for your doc not needing to order a hcg so not to worry.
You should just go with what feels right for you.
x


----------



## MaisieCat

Hi LittleLeb,  
I presume by north of the border you mean bonny Scotland .  I am under the impression that clinical practice does vary a lot over the regions, and probably even more so up there with you.  My GP didn't do anything at all to confirm my pregnancy.  She took a urine sample, but I don't even know what that was for (I  know I should have asked  ).  I've had no results either - I suppose I ought to ring the surgery and ask really, but kind of assumed they'd ring me if anything important/wrong was found.

Thanks for all your support.
A-M
xx


----------



## little lebowski

HI Maisiecat, wouldn't worry about it. I just thought most folk get these tests but then where I live is a long long way from even the most basic medical facilities so am thinking maybe my heavy duty monitoring was in part due to remoteness. Any slight complications here & its a helicopter ride to the mainland. Perhaps my GP is super-vigilant cos of this!
Hope all continues well for you.
x


----------



## jazzkitten

Hi Tess
we are also TTC, I am 42 and hubby 43, we only met when we were 39 and 40 and I never wanted children before.
We were married this year and have been trying since then (March).
Had tests at doctors - my blood came back, tested on Day 23 as progesterone 28 which is borderline anovulation apparently, but I wondered if the test was too late in  my cycle as I am sometimes 26 and sometimes 30 days.
Hubby has normal sperm test results. That's me anyway!
Keep in touch
x


----------



## soozywong

Hi Everyone

Just quick message before get down to studying - oops 10am already! 

MaisieCat, thinking of you and hope it's not too hard to wait till 7th December.  I have heard about these blood tests they can do too (although not had them) where they can monitor HCG levels.  If it was feeling too hard to wait, I guess it would do no harm to ask your GP to do them (or you might be able to get them done privately not too expensively) but I guess it depends on how you're feeling.

Little Leb, I have just started charting again, having not done it for a while, (just using paper) and that has been confusing because before I always had  dip in temperature at LH surge, but this time I haven't and it just seems to be going up gradually.  Still at least I got quite a strong line on ov stick after I posted last time (Wed pm) so that's encouraging.  But might look at the electronic one.  Whereabouts in Scotland are you?  We had a lovely holiday up there in July in Iona, Mull, Jura and Islay.

Welcome jazzkitten, sorry to hear re your test results, if you're worried it was at the wrong time, I guess it would be worth talking to the doctor and asking for a retest (in my experience, my GP often got blood tests wrong, did the wrong test, gave me the wrong result etc so I always think it's worth double and triple checking).

Lots of love to everyone else.

Sx


----------



## hopehopehope

Jaxxkitten - we don't ovulate every month, when i ovulate my progesterone is about 60.  I did Ov test sticks, waited till i got my LH surge then had prog test exaclty aweek later as my cycle varie between 25 and 29. i would get tested again, push for it, at our age we can't wait politely!

Little leb - can we all come and visit - i'd love some wilderness!


maisiecat - go back to your docs and push for hcg tests please Mrs, you can't possibly worry for another 12 days. (I'm sure you're ok though xxxx)


I'm off work with hideous back ache that started after my general anaesthetic for ivf egg collection - i think they yanked me. Couldn't sleep last night, sitting crying in pain between half one and half three. Doc signed me off work today for a week. have added iburpofen which i shouldn't take whe TTC but i can't have sex like this so i give up!

Love to everyone i missed out xx


----------



## little lebowski

Its been awfully quiet, hope all is well with everyone. Perhaps the snow is keeping everyone occupied?
*HHH *that backpain sounds awful - i had terrible pelvic pain after my IVF egg transfer - my clinic weren't that interested & just told me to take paracetamol which didn't touch the pain, i never found out why i had such pain. Hope you have gone back to your clinic?

*Soozywong*, I am v remote, in the Outer Hebs. Beautiful but mightily frozen just now!
x


----------



## hopehopehope

clinic was in Czech - so a bit for to get to to ask about pain! am sure they wouldn't be intersted any how - but will bear it in mind if there's an ivf#3


----------



## MaisieCat

Hi ladies,

I'm sorry, but I have bad news.

They only found a large sac with an empty yolk at the scan so it's classed as a 'missed miscarriage'. I know this is what happened to you, *LittleLeb*, so I'm sorry if this brings it all back  .

The way the sonographer (a lovely lady) explained it was that all the cells that were needed to build the sac, yolk etc did their job, but the one(s) that were meant to build the foetus didn't. The body is temporarily fooled into thinking there's a viable pregnancy, hence the symptoms and lack of bleeding. Well that's how I understand it, anyway - I have the 'little house', but no-one to live in it  . She said, in these cases, the body usually realises what's happened at 10-11 weeks and you then miscarry. (I know some of you know more about this than I do, so apologies if it's TMI.)

Got send to see a doctor as well, who was also lovely. She gave me some information leaflets and explained that I can either have an 'evacuation' procedure under General Anaesthetic, or wait for nature to take its course. I am going to wait because I don't want the added risk of a GA and I'm not actually in any pain (yet). I've got open access, day and night to the Obs and Gynae ward at the hospital so I can call or go there anytime. Luckily, we live literally 5 minutes away. She told me I should stay at home until it's all over - was very surprised I'd been to work for the last 2 weeks. I'm to self-certify for a week then go to GP and get signed off.

I am feeling surprisingly 'OK' at the moment. It is amazing what a difference truly sympathetic NHS staff can make (I am remembering your experience *LittleLeb*). I'm wide awake and in bed with the computer, the cat (who just farted unfortunately!), Chris Evans (in voice alone fortunately) and my first 'proper' cup of tea in an age.

I hope it doesn't sound callous, but I'm going to 'enjoy' the 'calm before the storm' while it lasts. Seems the best way to cope. Not sure what I'd have been like if I hadn't all the support on FF, but it seems to have really helped hearing everyone elses stories (of happiness and woe). They give me hope on one hand and make me realise how lucky I am in many ways on the other.

Loads of love and  and  all round.

A-M
xx

P.S. Welcome *jazzkitten* to this lovely thread of kindhearted ladies. xx


----------



## Mish3434

MaiseCat,  I'm so very sorry to see your sad news hun    Yes I do believe sypathetic staff can make a huge amount of difference at this horrible time    pleased you had good staff hun.  Take care of yourself I will be thinking of you during this sad time   

Shelley xx


----------



## soozywong

Hi Maisiecat

Was just thinking about you yesterday and wondering how you got on.  I'm really glad that the staff were sympathetic, I'm sure that does make a difference but I'm so so sorry to hear your news.  Will be thinking of you over the next few weeks  .

Sooz


----------



## MaisieCat

Mish3434 and Soozywong,

Thank you so much.  You are so very right about the sympathetic staff.  They really couldn't have been nicer.  The doctor even apologised for keeping me waiting after she'd had to rush off to deal with an emergency ectopic pregnancy.  Hearing that really made me feel lucky and that things could be a whole lot worse.

You take care of yourselves too.  Your support is invaluable.

A-M
xx


----------



## little lebowski

Dear Maisiecat
So sad to hear your news  
I have pm-ed you.
x


----------



## hopehopehope

Maisiecat - i am truly gutted for you.


----------



## MaisieCat

Thank you hopehopehope (and Littleleb, but I have PMed you back as well).

I've now got some brown spotting and had a few crampy feeling this morning.  Never though I'd be saying this, but I'm quite relieved in a way.  I just hope this is the beginning of the end, as it were.  I really don't want to have to have any interventions, but some people I've spoken to are getting me worried about infection setting in if it takes too long  .

Hope all you ladies are well.

Love
A-M
xx


----------



## little lebowski

Maisiecat
It does sound like somethings happening, I had a few days of the crampy spotting. I'm not sure you need worry about infection yet (?) my wait was about 2 weeks and I didn't have any probs. with infection. I know its another thing to worry bout though isn't it, just when you really don't need anything else to worry you. If you're worried talk to your GP cos, everyone's different. Maybe keep a check on your temperature (?) thats what I was advised.

Thinkin of you 
x


----------



## MaisieCat

Thanks Littleleb, that's really helpful.  My GP suggested not waiting too long because of the risk of infection and one of my Mum's friends, who I've known since I was a child and have therefore confided in mentioned infection too (I'm sure she meant well).

I think I might try and get a decent thermometer.  That way I can check my temperature and keep a proper eye on it rather than just relying upon my own judgement.  I've been feeling a bit peculiar for probably the last 10 days or so - the only way I can describe it is as if I'm 'coming down with something' but it never gets any worse.  They took my temperature at the hospital on Tuesday, so it obviously wasn't up then.  If I take my temperature a couple of times a day, I'll definitely spot an upward trend if there is one, won't I?  Talk about paranoid!!!  It's just the GP said an infection can take hold very quickly indeed.

This is ridiculous isn't it?  On the one hand, I'm thinking that I'm sure I'll know if there's a problem, because I'll feel really ill and we are so close to the hospital I can get attention very quickly if there's a problem.  On the other I'm worried I'm ignoring slight symptoms, which might be a warning.


----------



## little lebowski

Hi Maisiecat
You are right to be vigilant. Get a digital thermometer & keep checking. 
I was completely paranoid about infection too and with good reason. I had a very early miscarriage in my early 20s along with amoebic dysentery, I didn't even know I had either until after I was hospitalised with the early stages of peritonitis. This was when I lived abroad. I was in poor health due to the dysentery so possibly I was more susceptible to infection. Anyway, I became ill over a matter of a couple of weeks and then suddenly became seriously ill with terrible pain, fever, nausea and weight loss (they thought it was appendicitis at first). I was in hospital for weeks on intravenous antibiotics.
So there's a cautionary tale! I feel based on my own experience that you would know if you were heading for an infection, so, if you have the slightest concern get it checked out with your doc. However, on the bright side, I thought I'd be prime candidate for infection again due to my medical history but all's been fine, so fingers crossed for you too.
x


----------



## hope25

Dear maisecat

so sorry for your loss...i always wondered what missed mc meant ..and thanks to your detailed post...now i know...hope the bleeding cameand all is back to normal now so you can move on...i had an ectopic last winter and it was so painful and did me alot of damage tube wise and put me back so many months..so i suppose there is alot to be thankful for in your case not least the caring staff....it really helps..

I am on day 13 of my current cycle...will ttc naturally this month and if no joy then onto ivf num 3...havent had a natural bfp for 4.9 years now...wish me luck everyone

luv to all
hope 25xx


----------



## hopehopehope

hope -  have pm'd you - my af due in a week, then wait a cycle (for dh to stop smoking) then 3 weeks on pill, so antiscipating EC at Lister about third week Feb. 
Maisie - how 're you feeling/


----------



## MaisieCat

Hi Hope25 and Hopehopehope!

*hopehopehope* - Thanks for asking after me. I am feeling fine (details below). I hope you are well and your AF turns up as expected. xx

*Hope25* - Thank you. I am glad to have been of service educating you about a missed m/c. I had never heard of it before either, but now I feel like I am an expert, having spent rather a lot of time 'googling' the subject! Good luck with TTC naturally this month. xx

Hi to everyone else - Hope you are all well and have had a good Christmas.

*My update:*
After 4 days of brown spotting, red bleeding started 18 Dec. Had some awful recurring cramps this Sunday and Tuesday nights which woke me in the middle of the night and kept me up for about an hour each time. On the bright side, however, the cramps did make me pass a lot of clots of blood and lumps of tissue so I think finally I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. I had been getting a little worried that I would be forced to have an ERPC because I had been bleeding for so long. The GP examined me last Wednesday and said my os was still closed. I assume it must have opened now to let those clots out. Have been signed off sick again and am due back at work on Tuesday as long as the bleeding has stopped (it better had do or it'll have been 18 days, which seems rather too long).

*A quick question:* Do any of you know if it's possible to work out when next AF should be due after a m/c? I suspect it could be a bit random, but I'd rather get some idea if I can or I'll be living with panty-liners and constant knicker-checking for a month (and I've had quite enough of that believe you me!).

Finally HAPPY NEW YEAR to you all and may there be some  in 2011 for you all.

Love
A-M
xx


----------



## hope25

oh maisiecat...you poor thing...a looong bleed but atleast you can move ahead now..and its reassuring that everything is passing out so you wont need an erpc...take it easy and enjoy your time at home...


hope 2011 will be a happier year for all of us 40+ ladies...

HHH...might bump into you at lister in the new year....thnx for the pm...  

Hi to everyone else....wherever you are as its a little quiet here....all busy   no doubt...heheheh


----------



## little lebowski

Happy New Year to all!

Maisiecat, I hope things settle down soon. Your questions about AF after miscarriage - mine started 25 Nov (so that was 30 days post miscarriage). I'm usually a 28-31 days cycle so that was normal for me. Most people seem to get their next period between 4-6 weeks post miscarriage from what I've read. 

Things have not been normal for me since the last AF though. I had a normal AF on Nov 25, then started bleeding and cramping again on Dec 10 and it hasn't stopped since. Some days its been light and more like spotting but always with low grade cramping & pain low down on my left side. Then I had extremely heavy bleeding and clots on Dec 22 (approx the date I was expecting AF), thought I was going to have to go to hospital, no pain, but it was so sudden & heavy it went straight through my sanitary protection, knickers, leggings, dress, cardigan n' everything - one of the clots was the size of a golf ball! (sorry for TMI but it was scary). Awful as we were having dinner in a restaurant at the time & I had to rush to the loo. This was more like the start of my miscarriage, don't know what to think and its impossible getting a consultation around Xmas/New Year. Its gone back to brown spotting the last few days so am hoping things will settle down.

All the very best wishes for 2011
x


----------



## Googlegirl

Hi folks - saw this thread and am kinda in the same boat.  So sorry to hear of what everyone has been going through.  I'm also TTC naturally at 41 and just had M/C at 7 weeks at end of November.  AF came after 32 days and I am usually 28 day cycle so did not have to wait too long.  About to have some blood tests this week to check for any chromosomal problems and, if not, I will hopefully give it another shot. 

I'm so fed up thinking about it all the time and am trying to firmly put it in the hands of fate. As a consolation I took note of my sisters kids on Christmas Day, screaming the place down for hours on end and fighting like animals over the sea of toys - I think if anyone had told her that her children were a gift at that moment she may well have strangled them!

Bx


----------



## jazzkitten

LOL Beaklet - yes you have to remind yourself of the benefits and the disadvantages, as with everything I guess.
this thread has got so long now I have lost track but basically I'm 42 and TTC naturally.
We've had a couple of tests and they have shown that my husband is absolutely fine, my FSH is 2.3 which is pretty good I guess (unless someone wants to correct me?) and LH is normal.
The problem is my progesterone was 26 when it should have been 30 or above and the consultant says this is low.
So I have to have dye/X Ray to check for blockages and then if they are fine I will be put on Clomid.

I'm not sure of the mechanics of it all but I was told that I am not ovulating reliably. I have had positive ovulation tests (done by me at home) for months, and I know that Clomid is supposed to make you ovulate. I suppose it must be that my ovulation was triggered but not completed properly?

Anyone got any clues here?

Cheerio

Wendy


----------



## little lebowski

hi jazz kitten
thats interesting that you are getting positives on OPKs but not ovulation properly - I often wondered if that was the case for me as I've been getting positives on OPKS for the past 5 yrs that we've been TTC but only conceived post-IVF treatment, which my GP said is not uncommon. I've always treated OPKs as a secondary sign anyway but recently haven't had any of what I'd class as the primary signs (cervical mucus, ovulations pain etc.) I'm sorry I don't know anymore about this but I'd be interested in hearing more about it if anyone has any more info.
Gppd luck everyone for 2011.


----------



## hopehopehope

Jazz kitten - what is your day 3 E2 - that works hand in hand with FSH - high E2 will mask high fsh. 

little leb - did you keep the clot - foul i know , but worth 'showing' to specialist. 

Happy new year everyone! Let's hope it's our lucky one!!


----------



## hope25

OMG....jazz kitten and little leb...I have been ttc for 4 years..and been using OPK religiously...but although getting poitives on OPT never had a single bfp naturally...only bfp (which i mc) were from ivf ....so as I am off the my follow up next friday....maybe i should bring this up...this is so strange...there must be a clue and a whole field of study around this waiting to be explored unless someone already has....this whole ttc is such a minefield of unexplained...zillions of factors and one whole big mystery...  i wish someone would come up with some solutions fast...before its too late for us ladies..

heres hoping to a baby filled 2011 for us all


----------



## little lebowski

*Hope 25*
From what I read, its possible to have an LH surge and positive OPK and not ovulate, seems a number of factors can be involved incl. stress, illness, PCOS. Its also possible to have LH surges at times other than ovulation. I definitely think I did not ovulate last month because I chart my temperatures. One primary sign of ovulation is a sustained rise in temperature. My temperature seems to be going down not up, after I detected my LH surge. I gather your doctor can measure progesterone levels & work out from that if ovulation has taken place, I don't think my doctor is sufficiently interested to bother with this though. I just feel like time's passing by & I'm no further forward with understanding why I'm stuck in this situation.

*Hope Hope Hope*
No I didn't keep the clot, I was away from home when it happened & couldn't get an appt with anyone. I've got a scheduled appt 3 months post-miscarriage check-up on 13 Jan so may as well wait til then.

Thought I was doing quite well over Christmas until some friends announced their pregnancy, at 10 weeks. I'm so, so mean, but I selfishly wished they had kept it to themselves until after Christmas (we had planned on telling our respective families at Christmas & I don't want any reminders). I was really unprepared for how angry & upset I feel, it started me thinking about our recent experience & miscarriage at around 10 weeks. I just don't think I can see them at all because it all feels too raw & I just can't bear hearing anything about their news or the fact that "it just happened" & they hadn't even been TTC. I don't think I like myself as a person at the moment, am feeling very bitter, & thats not me at all.

Any tips, anyone, on dealing with pregnancy announcements?


----------



## hope25

Little Leb    ..its natural...dont be hard on yourself....is difficult to see others getting what we want so much for ourselves...we ALL understand hun...lets look forward with hope and faith..   
xx


----------



## MaisieCat

Oh crikey LittleLeb, how awful!  I really should count myself lucky that all the nasty bits of my mc happened at home and at night. 

When you say most people's AFs come about 4-6 weeks after a mc, when do you think I should start counting from - the start of the red bleeding, the passing of the first clots (that was about a week later), or the end?  Perhaps I'm just going to have to accept that I just won't have any idea when my next AF will start.

It's very interesting to hear what you all have to say about working out when or whether you are ovulating (I assume by OPK you are talking about ovulation predictor kits).  I'd been using a clearblue monitor for 6 months or so before we had the IUI treatment and used it straight after the IUI failure.  I'm assuming that month it correctly predicted ovulation, given that we conceived that month by going for it when it told us to!  It hadn't occurred to me that it might have been wrong previously.  Perhaps I should take my temperature as well?

I don't know what E2 is though.  Is that something you can check yourself?

I wish I had some tips on dealing with pregnancy announcements.  Fortunately I have not experienced any for a while, apart from those of my freind on here (which I am fine with).  Lots of people have commented to me how well I have coped with what has just happened to me, but I really can't explain how I'm coping or why I'm not feeling any different.  My sister and close family friends just think our family are made of 'strong stuff'   .  I'm not so sure - perhaps we just bottle things up?

I do admit to feeling a bit bitter sometimes and having regrets about not having started to TTC much earlier in life, but realise that it is pointless to let that get me down - there is nothing I can do about it now.  All I can do is do everything I can to help the situation from now onwards and hope that it will work.  Turning back the clock is one thing that nearly everyone wants to do as some point in their lives, but no-one will ever be able to do it.  Looking forward is the only way as far as I can see - with hope and faith as hope25 just said   .  

  to all
A-M
xx


----------



## little lebowski

*Maisiecat*
Everything I've read suggests you start counting from the first day of red bleeding.

*Hope 25 & Maisiecat*
I started using a Clearblue monitor in November but don't seem to be able to get it to work properly - anyone else had probs with it? I put the text stick in & it looks like its reading the stick, but when its ready to be read, there's an ! (exclamation mark) against the little digital image of the test stick. In the booklet it says this means something is wrong like you removed the stick too early (but I always leave it at least 15 mins). So my reading is permanently "High", I bought it on Amazon in July & then didn't need to use it til now so can't send it back (doh!) So I'm just carrying on with bought over the counter OPKs, First Response mainly as there's a buy one get one free at the mo. Though these have been reading positive for 10 days now! though I don't actually think I've ovulated cos my temperature seems very low still.

*Beaklet, Hope 25 & Maisiecat*
We haven't told many people about what happened recently but everyone seems to think I'm coping well, and I guess I go into automatic mode when I'm in company. But I just don't feel like that inside, I feel horrible & stressed, & I can't sleep until about 6am in the morning, thats not helping. I'm not normally like this, I usually bounce back, it seems to have turned me into a complete drama queen, every little thing stresses me out! (& I detest drama queens!) I can't seem to enjoy anything. I was given a diamond ring on Christmas Eve & its still in the box (yes, engagement ring).


----------



## MaisieCat

Oh Littleleb, you know what, I know what you mean.  

The last thing the GP told me to do to check it's all sorted was to do a home preg test.  I did one this morning and still have a positive result!  I've been to work this morning (first day back in nearly a month), trying to carry on as normal and have a GP appt at 4:30 this p.m. but since I got home (I only work mornings) I've just been feeling so down.  DH sent me an 'I love U' text and I burst into tears.  I just want to go to sleep and wake up and it all be gone.  

Also found out at work today that 2 other ladies there are pregnant (both of whom had m/c's last year but didn't really speak about it - not that anyone does, do they, apart from on here - I only know because I work in the office and see the sick notes etc.).  I don't work closely with them and we're not 'friends' as such, but I will see them every day and am not quite sure how that makes me feel.  

Sorry - this is all me, me, me again.

I'm not sure about the '!' on the Clearblue monitor.  I had it once or twice I think, but I think I might have taken it out too soon.  You have to wait until a little arrow appears on the screen telling you to take it out.  I seem to remember there being a helpline number in the booklet that came with it.  Have you tried ringing that?  Or if that's premium rate, there might be an e-mail address you can send a question to.  You may as well try - it's a bit of an expensive bit of kit to go to waste if there's a possibility that it's faulty.  I have often found contacting manufacturers direct about this sort of thing a lot better than trying to get a retailer to sort it out.  The fact that it was bought in July shouldn't matter - it must have a longer warranty than that.

Hope you get it sorted - I've found mine very good, so I think it would be worth it.

A-M
xx


----------



## little lebowski

Hi Maisiecat
First day back to work is bound to be tough, you're doing really well to go in.  It hits you when you least expect it, seems to be the way, hey? My partner was asked to be a godparent at Christmas & as any old trigger seems to start me off, I just went down & down & down, I couldn't understand why I did that. I didn't have a positive pregnancy test post-miscarriage, I half expected to tho' mine was negative & somehow I was surprised by that...
My GP muttered something about post-miscarriage blues being common. I gather its something like postnatal depression cos of the sudden depletion of hormones (tho' of course there is no bundle of joy to take your mind of things I guess). No idea how long this is supposed to last, but I'm not back at work & don't expect to be going back this month. I can't seem to think about anything other than how it felt being pregnant, what stage I'd be at now. I know this can't be good for me, but I don't seem able to adjust. Like you say, wish I could go to sleep & all would be gone when I wake up ... if only I could sleep - aaaargh!!


----------



## MaisieCat

I didn't really think I was having sleeping problems, but I suppose I am, sort of.  All the while I've been off sick (well most of the time), I've been sleeping in late and going to bed very late.  I thought it was just a vicious circle I'd got myself into, by staying up once or twice and then because I'd slept on in the morning, not feeling tired at bedtime.  However, it doesn't quite seem to tally.  

I've not been thinking too much about what stage I'd be at (well only fleetingly on occasion).  I'm now feeling more down because of the uncertainty I think (I was feeling pretty positive yesterday when I realised the bleeding was stopping).  That positive test this morning felt like a kick in the teeth.  All the times I've been wanting to see that darned + sign, and now I don't want it it's there   .  I just hope the doctor can offer something other than an ERPC.  Surely there must be another way of checking it's all gone rather than just a HPT.  I still can't face the thought of going under GA when there might not even be anything there to remove.

Has your GP given you anything for the 'blues'?  I'm a bit worried about talking to the GP about how I'm feeling in case they say I'm depressed and give me 'happy pills' (as my sister calls them).  My sister has just been put back on them again after splitting with her husband and seems to be on and off them all the time - I really don't want to go down that route if I can help it.  Maybe I shouldn't worry, some GPs seem to be more keen on handing these things out than others and mine just might not be one of those.

Bye for now   .
A-M
xx


----------



## little lebowski

Hi Maisiecat
I PMed you, my GP prescribed allsorts but I haven't taken them, I don't like pills but I understand they can help in acute situations. I'd give it some time, after all its still a very recent event. 

For me, I think its been a major life crisis & I can only think of a family bereavement as coming close to this kind of trauma (see, I'm going into drama queen mode again!, how I hate that!!!) On the other hand, in other aspects of my life I'm aware that I'm very lucky, there are people far worse off. 

Anyway, I am acutely aware I am not in the best place to be on this board giving support to those TTC, and after all thats what its all about, so I shall PM you now. And I'll come back here when I'm more cheery & have made sense of my Clearblue monitor. Yes, I shall take your sensible advice & ring the helpline, very good idea!
x


----------



## hopehopehope

hi Maisiecat, Hi little Leb  

Maisie - it is so hard after a MC, i felt depressed but unable to ask for help as i didn't want to take tablets as
I wanted to start trying again straightaway. ( in fact i pretty much feel like this after every failed treatment)  i ended up over eating and putting on loads of weight. Get as much day light as you can,  SAD is out and about, try to think positively, i know it's hard, but it will help, life will get better and your hormones will be all over the place at the moment.i also got positive tests for a feww weeks after, i kept testing and felt  that i had to move on when i got my first negative test. 

thinking of you both xoxox


----------



## MaisieCat

Aw bless you *LittleLeb*. Don't worry about talking about this stuff in the wrong thread - after all it was ME that started it - I should take the blame! I suppose I posted it here because I feel I 'know' all you 'oldies' and we have all supported each other so well on this thread. And it's all part of TTC as far as I'm concerned - after all that's what got us in this position in the first place! I hope the others on this thread feel the same.

Anyhow, now that I have seen the GP and she has just referred me for a scan to check all is gone (on Monday), I do feel a bit better.

*Hopehopehope* - Thank you for such good advice. Maybe I should get off my bum, get my warm winter woolies on and go see what destruction (after the snow) awaits me at my allotment. I haven't been over for about a month, what with the snow and everything else. I bet the nets have collapsed and the pigeons have had all my kale and cabbages! I'm kind of glad to hear of someone else that had positive tests for a while afterwards - puts my mind at rest that it might not be as much of a problem as I thought.

Thank you again, you lovely people. xx


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## little lebowski

My GP has made sense of recent events by deciding today that all things considered I probably had another miscarriage in December. So that explains alot! 
I feel mixed emotions, but, strangely, relieved. 
Off for a glass of wine now!
x


----------



## soozywong

Hi Everyone

Happy New Year to you all.

Sorry for being quiet for so long, I have been away for a couple of weeks and not much access to email.

I've looked through all the messages and just wanted to say how much I understand a lot of what you've all expressed at different stages and phases.

LittleLeb, I was so sorry to hear that you might have had another m/c - that's so tough but I can imagine you would also feel some relief that it helps explain things. But you've been through so much and I hope you are able to take all the time you need.

MaisieCat, sorry to hear that you're still going through it, I can imagine it must really have hit you when you got that +ve test result. I know what you mean about regrets, you seem better than me at looking ahead, I find myself obsessively going over stuff.

Beaklet, welcome, this is a very understanding, supportive thread.

HHH and Hope25, will be thinking of you if you do IVF at the Lister. I am looking at that in March/April time.

Hello everyone else...

AFM, I don't think I ov'd last month which is unusual for me, although since my last IVF in Sept things seems to have been all over the place. I think I didn't because was also charting temperature and it went down after what I thought was an LH surge. I stopped charting my temp at day 20 cos it was depressing me too much (it was over Christmas). Period started at day 28 anyway. Sorry about my ignorance but how does it work in terms of your period if you don't ov. Does your womb lining still thicken? I'm also struggling with other signs, before could tell with CM but had very little in last few months which doesn't feel very +ve so we're using sperm-friendly alternatives.

Am finding it all very hard, it's now nearly a year since my m/c and no BFP since and it just feels like it's slipping away and I think about it all the time - well you're know what that's like.

In terms of the depression thing, I was talking to a friend of mine who works in Mental Health and he said that a useful benchmark is thinking about whether your response is proportionate and appropriate to what you have been through. From what I've read, our responses are. This is such a tough thing, I read that someone who'd put it on the stress scale put it between cancer and bereavement, and it helps to remind myself of that. However, I think tablets can sometimes help to get through a particularly difficult time, but each person needs to work out what's right for them I guess.

Anyway must go, but wishing us all lots of babydust for this year. By the way if any of you are in or near London I'm looking at doing a course run by the Bridge on mindbody stuff http://www.bridgemind-body.co.uk/ which looks really good, if anyone's interested.

Lots of love

Sooz

/links


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## Spuds

Hiya Ladies

Hope you dont mind me joining you though not at my best today 

TTC naturally for next 6 mths - no more OE IVF for me - happy and sad about that - DE this year if no luck again naturally - after 10 years no pill and 2 IVF's got a natural pregnancy in June last year - gobsmacked ! - saw heartbeat only to lose him/her when we were sooo close to a 12w scan - devastated but assumed it could happen again quickly - it hasn't - and now spend more time on computer and less time in the bedroom so bob hope n no hope there   

Sorry ladies - major PMT hormones sorry self at the min - it will pass xxx

Would be lovely to chat to you guys when Im a bit more PMA fied !!!

Lots of Love and Luck

Spuds
xxx


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## hope25

Hi spud...i think its way too early to start thinking of de..are you only 40....and you had a natural BFP which means your body and eggs are capable...i had my dd at 39 naturally and wish i didnt waste these 4 years trying for another natural miracle and did ivf  back to back til it worked as i am now 43 and the stats are not as good as someone as young as you...but young in the sense you can still beat the clock...dont give up yet...but do ivf sooner rather than later and keep ttc naturally in the rest cycles between ivf...

Just my opinion...dont mean to push..but i see you where i was 4 years ago and i wish i put my skates on instead of wasting my time ttc naturally...i might have completed my family by now.

wish you all the best hun


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## hopehopehope

HI Spuds - welcome

Hi to Sooz - happy New Year and Hope25 when do you start on drugs, when were you 43, it's my b'day on 20th jan and am feeling like time is running away, literally!!


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## hope25

HHH..i turned 43 on my last ivf cycle NOV/Dec 2010...and turned 42 ..it was right on my birthday when i started bleeding and knew it was all over for my pregnancy from my ivf last Oct/Nov 2009...cried myself silly on my birthday    ..life is so tough sometimes.

However..I just read somewhere that women who smile more have healthier eggs and more fertile as smiling triggers good hormones in the body....the article even said if you dont feel like smiling just grit your teeth or squint..the muscles moving in the same direction as a smile will still trick your brain into releasing the egg friendly hormones....

So come on girls...lets


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## hope25

Hi soozywong
Just to let you know a ff member on the lister girls site has posted that the lister prices wont go up this jan..but will remain the same until april...
Incase the prices go up alot in april....maybe you could try and get your ivf cycle in before then to save the pennies as it all adds up to   shocking amounts


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## Spuds

Hi Ladies xx


Thanks so much for the welcome xxx


Hope 25 xx thank you so much for your msge xx - I think that Marie at the Lister feels I have better chance naturally now than with IVF based on my previous performance and AMH etc but I think its also a bit of me that can't mentally/financially manage another failed OE cycle - I'm such a control freak and think DE will give me a better percentage chance ...the money is also running out etc  - I have chased her to confirm her opinion 100% in case I interpreted it wrongly.. 


I'm impressed so far with Shady Grove though in the states - its 20k ish for 6 fresh cycles and if you dont get a baby its 100% money back !?! - a hell of a lot of money up front but I really like the comfort of it .....going to talk it through with my counsellor tomorrow and see where we get to  maybe they would let me have 5 DE and one OE for the 20k - that would solve it 


Lots of love and Luck to you all


Spuds
xxx


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## MaisieCat

Hi all,

Hasn't it got busy here all of a sudden  .

*Spuds *- Welcome! I had a surprise BFP too - immediately after a failed IUI cycle. Unfortunately (as you may have gathered if you have been reading previous posts) this then resulted in a missed miscarriage, which still isn't quite resolved. DH is against using donor eggs (and I'm not totally sure about it myself) even though both my sister and a cousin have offered to either egg-donate or be a surrogate. I feel so blessed, having such lovely family (my cousin only made the offer very recently after we got back in touch having not seen each other since we were children and I was astounded by it). The surrogacy idea totally freaks DH out, especially with a relative. In fact I think that there is a bit too much potential there for it to ruin a lovely family relationship. Besides, I'm not sure how good the chances would be with either option anyhow as sis is 37 this year and coz a little older (although coz has had 4 children, one quite recently, so she's obviously pretty fertile). Sometimes I wish DH wasn't so against it, but I can understand his feelings and would not want to persuade him into it only for something to go wrong later. I do dearly want a child, but not enough to potentially ruin our relationship.

Oh dear - excuse me - I've rather gone off the subject again!

It's interesting that your clinic think you now have a better chance naturally. My clinic have not said that to me, but I'm feeling it myself. Our original plan after the failed IUI, was to try another IUI in Nov 10, then IVF this January if it failed and TTC naturally inbetween. Back then I felt treatment was the only way and wanted to get on with it asap with back-to-back treatment (like hope 25 said she wished she had done) but the natural BFP has made me feel totally different. I really feel that we can do this naturally now and want to give it at least a few months (once my cycle has recovered) before starting more treatment. It IS difficult though, balancing the thought that we might be wasting precious time, versus all the cost, hassle and stress that treatment brings and the fact that it still might not work.

And the clinic in the States - Is the £20k ish 'deal' for donor eggs only? If that sort of thing was offered over here for own eggs, we'd certainly be considering it if the natural route fails, but I'm not good on long flights anymore, so couldn't face all that travelling.

*Soozywong* - Thank you for expressing your concern. Yes, the +ve test really did hit me like a smack round the face. I wasn't prepared for that. I hadn't cried over the m/c, but that afternoon I found myself sitting there crying for no reason. I think it's the uncertainty that gets to me the most. Now that I have this scan booked, I feel a bit better.

I'm sorry you are still finding things so hard. There are so many emotions flying around the place for people in our postion - I'm sure we all find ourselves sitting there going over and over it all sometimes - I know I do. I can't answer your question about not ovulating I'm afraid as (according to the Clearblue monitor) I always have. However, I had been having the same problem with lack of CM at the 'right time' and the first time we got over the embarrassment factor of resorting to sperm-friendly lubricant was the month we concieved - so there you go! Maybe it does really help? I wonder if it helps the swimmers on their journey as well as helping in the more obvious way  ?

I don't mean to ignore everyone else, but I think I've waffled on quite enough for now  .

Love to all
A-M
xx


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## Spuds

Hiya Maisie Cat xxx - it is a really tough one hey and I know only too well DE is not always an option for people - not there 100% yet myself tbh but think the counselling will get me there in the end - has taken years though xx - I don't know of any UK clinics that offer money back but a lot of the European ones do I think - Barcelona IVF is meant to be good but I'm not sure what they do on this - I know IM in Barcelona have a 70% money back after 3 goes I think but again not sure what the 'cut off' age is between OE and DE but there are options out there for a bit of financial comfort  - hopefully you wont need any of it xxxxx


It is soooo hard getting over a missed mc and my heart goes out to you - we had ours in August and whilst I know the pain will always be there - it does get less and we have had some really 'positive' feelings to help us by getting pregnant naturally - again like you I think I would be back in the IVF saddle (if I could have pushed myself to be brave again) had I not managed to get there naturally and that does 'feel' like the best option for me at the minute if that makes any sense xx


Sending you loads of gentle hugs to get you thorough this time xxxxxx


Hello to soozywong and all the girls too xx


Spuds
xxx


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## MaisieCat

Hi  Spuds,
Thanks for your words of support.  It is hard, but I'm sort of OK at the moment.  Just need the scan to prove it's all gone on Monday and I think I'll be able to move on.  

It's interesting that European clinics have these 'offers'.  Maybe different laws allow them to be a bit more commercial about it?  I still don't think I could face travelling to a foreign country for treatment.  The clinic we've been using is so close by - literally 5 minutes drive.  I might consider London (about an hour on the train and DH works up there anyway) so I do have some options if we want to move.

As you said though, hopefully I won't be needing to worry about any of that - if we can do it once, we can do it again!  Positive thoughts! 

A-M
xx


----------



## Bright Eyes

Hi Girls, have been keeping an eye on this thread.   I did post a while back but things have been difficult and sort of went into melt down. I can so so feel how some of you have been feeling. We had a natural BFP in March after years of tx - everytime good results but nothing stuck. I switched off, went to Aus for a holiday and think that did the trick. I was over the moon but shortlived with a missed  m/c also. I felt pg, all the signs before, during and after.They thought I had dates wrong and slow grower so had to wait only to find out that things were not progressing. I did not m/c naturally and so took medication and also ended up in hosp with severe bleeding. It did not clear it all and so I had to have more tablets a few weeks later. It was the worse nightmare of my life. It took a while to get an AF and even now I am not as regular as I was. I cannot bring myself to be testing for ovulation as it proved that things happened when I took my mind off it all. I cannot go through the stress all the time and DH has just got fed up with performing on cue. It has caused so many rows.  Saying that since the bfp each month I have become more conscious of timings etc and I hate myself for getting into that mind set again. He refuses to go down DE or adoption. I do have some frosties since tx when I was just over 40, but cannot bring myself to use them as that will be the end of any tx and I am even scared of getting a bfp as now I know the pain that can bring too.  My Doc says that the chances of natural or tx pregancy is the same for me - I am 44 this year.  I will have to use them soon but need courage. Dh is 50 soon and says that his time has gone for all of this and he feels too old to be a Dad. That caused me stress too.
Anyway, sorry for the moan but it was this time last year I got pg and it all floods back. 
I am thinking of all of us on this thread and hoping that , for all of us, this will be a better year.
Love Bright Eyes


----------



## MaisieCat

Oh dear Brighteyes, I do feel for you.  My missed m/c has still not been verified as 'over' as I still had a positive HPT on Tuesday morning and still have brown 'spotting' at every toilet visit.  I have a scan on Monday to check what's going on.  

I originally heard on here about the tablets and really wanted to take that option as soon as the missed m/c was diagnosed, but was not given the option - only an ERPC under GA, which petrifies me, so I opted to wait for it to happen naturally.  I was told that they will only use the tablets if the pregnancy was further advanced (12 weeks or more).  However, I can now see from your experience that perhaps that way (the tablets) is not best for everyone.

I was the same as you, with all the appropriate symptoms.  As my BFP was straight after a failed round of treatment they also thought my dates could be wrong, even though I was absolutely certain of the date of my LMP and my ovulation dates (according to my Clearblue monitor).  This was why I had the second scan 2 weeks later.

My DH is the same about DE and adoption too, although we have not had cross words about it.  I'm not quite sure how I feel about that to be perfectly honest.  I suppose you have seen from my previous post that we have had donor offers, which is what made us discuss it.

Anyway, I could whitter on about this endlessly, but I won't.  I'd better go up to bed and try to get a decent night's sleep - I just seem to be tired all day and then wide awake by bedtime  .

Nighty-night all
A-M
xx


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## hopehopehope

hi Brighteyes   

love to everyone xoxox

AF is 3 days late - i have tummy ache, wondering whther the steroids i took for 5 days cos of asthma may have delayed it..... i know they do , but it's more long term steroid use. Oh God, fingers crossed everyone


----------



## MaisieCat

Hopehopehope - OMG fingers well and truly crossed!  How have you managed not to test yet  .  I was only a couple of days late when I got that BFP last October.  DH tried to persuade me to wait, until morning of 3rd day late, but I couldn't resist.  I just HAD to know.  

   
A-M
xx


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## soozywong

HHH fingers crossed, would be amazing - can't believe either you haven't tested.

Hope 25 thanks so much for tip off re Lister prices; will get in touch.

Spuds - welcome.

BrightEyes sending you   as you decide what to do next.  Really understand about it being around this time last year you got pg.  Thinking about you as you decide what to do next.  It is such a tough tough road we're jon.

I really understand dilemma between treatment, trying naturally, DE (if option) etc.  I'm weighing it all up constantly.  I think because now nearly a year since got pg (found out on 12th Jan) and had nothing since, I'm feeling less hopefull about the ttc naturally chances. I don't know, all very difficult.  I'm trying all this stuff, DHEA, Apimist, acupuncture, herbs, hardly drinking, watching diet, lots of other supplements and thinking is it making any difference at all?

Anyway, so glad it's the w/e - last 3 days at work have been HARD WORK.

Let's hope this is a good year for us.

Lots of love

Sx


----------



## Spuds

Ladies 

Its late and I found the Christmas Port - look out  - just wanted to send some hugs xx


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## MaisieCat

LOL Spuds.  I hope you didn't have too much of it and are regretting it now .  You just reminded me - we opened a bottle of lovely fortified dessert wine on Christmas Day and it is yet to be finished.  There are M&S Sticky Toffee Puds in the fridge just waiting for an accompaniment.  This evening maybe? 

I decided that all open bottles of perishable plonk need to be finished this weekend cos, if the scan goes OK on Monday I'll be back on the vitamins and off the booze all over again, so it is going to be a good weekend!

A-M
xx


----------



## Googlegirl

Hi ladies - reading some of your stories and emotions is like a textbook of how I act and feel! Its reassuring to know that some things are still normal.

Little Leb - I have become the queen of dealing with anxiety and depression over the last year and I have not dared wear mascara in about 14 months as I could pretty much be certain that I would be blubbing over something on a daily basis. As with many girlies here I chose not to take the anti depressants (citalopran) that i was given as I was worried about them affecting my chances of getting pregnant or that they would be detrimental to a baby if I was that lucky. Instead, I tried to deal with extreme anxiety through all sorts of other means but I sometimes wish I had just taken the anti depressants for a few months and given myself a break from it all. I also foolishly and inaccurately thought that it would not look good on my medical record if I want to head down the adoption or fostering route which I definitely do at some point.

I think there is probably a point where the negative impact of stress and anxiety is worse than any possible side effects that might arise from anti depressants. I sometimes wonder if the acute anxiety and hysterical crying has been at least part of the reason why I have had 3 early miscarriages in such a short space of time.

For the first time in ages I now feel like I have found a bit of peace with it all and I have tried to imagine life with a potential baby and without one. I can see the merits and opportunities with both and I am trying to use that image to stop me panicking about time ticking away. I am going to keep trying and I am hoping that my new calm state of mind will give me a better chance.

So..... the secret of my improved emotional well being (for the time being !!)? Well actually it is more a matter of trying everything until something works and here is my list!! Brace yourself!!

*Hypnotherapy* - I have only had two sessions and another one due on Tuesday. The first session was not so good as it takes a bit of getting used to but the second one was great and I really did feel like it was more difficult to hit the same low levels of sadness and anxiety - feels a wee bit like having a shell on so that bad emotions have to work harder to get through. Like many of you my tears are triggered by the slightest thing but this really helped. My hypnotherapist also does cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) and it is also worth incorporating some of that if it helps to challenge negative emotions. Can be expensive but may be worth forking out if it helps keep a bit of emotional strength in there.

*Acupuncture* - I've been having this anyway for fertility but I always make sure I tell her how I am feeling emotionally and, more often than not, I end up with a few needles in my head as well. Am never sure if it is working or not but I go to an acupuncturist who specialises in fertility and she is always interesting and comforting to talk to as she sees so many women who are both lucky and unlucky in their baby bids.

*Counselling* - this has also been useful. It is not just about helping you to deal with the symptoms of anxiety and depression but it actually makes you challenge your fears and ask yourself - "what is the worst that can happen and what will I do to keep myself on track if I don't manage to have this baby?". They might ask you 'what will your life be like if this doesn't happen for you?' 'Is it really that bad?', 'how can you make it better?', 'where else can you find fulfillment?'. It can sometimes take a few tries to get the right person but once you've found a good one they can be a godsend and knowing that you are seeing them every few weeks does help you to keep check of your progress or decline!

*Keep speaking to your doctor* if you need to and don't get that 'oh god I can't face seeing them again, they must be so fed up with me!.

*Rescue Remedy* - ON A DRIP!! Thank the gods for this  even if it only works through the power of suggestion. I pretty much drink this stuff by the pint and now that they have sprays, pastilles and other bits and pieces, I am just wallowing in it. They even have lip balm which doubles up as a temple oil to soothe those tension headaches that always hang around at the worst times! Anyone who glances my way pretty much has an 80% chance of seeing me smear myself with it whilst glaring back at them with the look of a woman possessed. On a similar vein I also have emergency mist which I spray in the air above me when the tears or panic start coming in. Smells nice and just makes my mind step back a bit.

I also tried to by 'calming essence' in the health food shop and thought nothing of the little picture of a rabbit on the front. When I got there the lady at the counter told me that it was for nervous pets at which point I broke down and had to be comforted by her and a random customer - she said 'it's ok - we have stuff for humans too' but I now wonder whether the nervous rabbit stuff might just have something else in it that does the trick!

Am I sounding just a little bit crazy yet? No? Good - well there's more ......

*Tell people what you are going through*!  I made the mistake of keeping everything to myself during the IVF and now I really wish I had spoken to others. After separating from my husband last year I kinda had to tell people the reason as I did not want people to make up their own reasons. It felt GREAT telling folks all about the IVF and I had nothing but support and shared experiences from people - I know I would have got a lot of benefit from telling people at the time, the same goes for having miscarriages etc. Its not something to shout from the rooftop but sometimes it doesn't need to be a big secret from people either and it is amazing how many people respond to you with similar stories - suddenly you don't feel so alone anymore. It also means you can have freakers all over the place and everyone understands  (I have milked that last one believe me!)

*Self Help books* - Ha - well if there is one to give a miss it is 'women who think too much'. I have rarely read such a pile of sh*t which swings between stating the bl**dy obvious and being utterly meaningless and irrelevant. On the other hand I know there are plenty books out there which are very inspirational - self help, fiction and non fiction - which sometimes make you think that life is out there no matter what and that you can survive whichever way it ends up going (as long as you read them whilst hooked up to your Rescue Remedy drip that is!!).

*Diet *- a bit obvious really but I always find that I am more upbeat when I am eating healthily

*Relaxation Tapes - *Little Leb I was amazed at how much this helped me sleep. Like you I was waking up all the time or unable to get to sleep but I tried Tranquil Dreams by Elizabeth Craig and it so worked for me. I have always poo poo'd these and thought that someone speaking to me on a tape when I was trying to sleep would keep me awake but this definitely helped me get to sleep and to get back to sleep if I woke up during the night. I think the fact that you are listening to someone's voice prevents you from thinking your own black thoughts and it lasts for long enough to help you drop off!

Just realised that I am going to bring everyone's computers down with the length of this thread and that I sound like a mad woman too.  I think I have probably been as mad as I would ever hope to get this last few years but I am hoping that my perseverance at getting a grip of myself is working and that, if my head feels better, everything else may follow.

Anyway - hope I don't sound like a self righteous old hippy - there might be a few things in here that help you and they are all borne of experience. Feeling calm can only be a good thing but its so hard to do!!

I wanted to be a bit more personal with everyone but running out of space here - just a big hug to everyone and babydust all round in 2011. 

Beaklet xx


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## Spuds

Hiya Beaklet xxx what an amazing post !!!! and extremely helpful - I think you should cut and paste and keep it somewhere as a link for other ff's too - really really helpful thank you so much for sharing xxxx

I know for me the CBT was amazing !!! Expensive but intense and only over about 4- 5 sessions but it has provided me with backbone when things get really tough and kind of gives really practical ways of getting rid of the old negative thought patterns that jump out and try to get us down

Spoke to my lovely counsellor at the Zita West clinic and as usual - she sorted my head out in 10 mins lol - feel much better...we are not going to leg to the USA for donor eggs but give ourselves some real chill out time to try naturally and maybe go to the states in the summer if we need to - having a free consultation with one of the Drs from Shady Grove on Tuesday night and really looking forward to that - then we will put it on the back burner for a bit and try to chillax etc

Really do hope that this is our year ladies       

Vicky
xx


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## MaisieCat

Beaklet,

No, you don't sound self-righteous at all. There's lots of useful information there, and every little bit helps. In fact even just someone else sharing how they're feeling helps. It helps to make you realise you are not the only one, and you're not going insane feeling lots of odd feelings.

I must admit, I feel a bit 'odd' myself in that I haven't had the hysterical tears etc. and keep wondering whether I should be. The only time I have cried since being told I had a missed m/c was when I had the positive test last week - no idea why that set me off.

I'm so glad to hear that you have found a 'bit of peace'. That has got to be a good thing whatever happens  .

A-M
xx


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## hopehopehope

Maisie - i think i've had your tears! and more!

Beaklet - hi! I took Citalopran once and it took me months to come off, it says no withdrawal side effects, but i got awfuil spinning sensations and insisted my doctor report them to the drug company. It took me 5 months to come off them and i was only on them for 6 months!! I don't think prozac has the same effect. 

afm AF was 4 days late, it never is, i was convinced I was BFP till i did a test and got a bfn then started to bleed a few hours later.


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## Loll

Hi to everyone, hope you all had a good xmas and new yr x

Sorry not posted for a while but every now and then i have a quick look through posts to see how everyone is doing.
I have /am going through a strange time. My emotions seem to be all over the place (talk about an emotional rollercoster!)
Anyway i dont want to babble on about me and my ever growing fear that a little buddle of joy will not ever come our way! But would just like to say that when i hear yet another person is pregnant rather than feeling happy for them i am starting to feel real sadness and i dont like feeling this way and wonderd if any one on FF have these same feelings when either a friend,relation,colleague or well just about anyone tells you yet again someone is pregnant? I am starting to hate myself for this as its just not me but cant help feeling why? why cant i give my DH a child! Sorry if i have upset anyone certainly dont mean to and when i read anyone on FF is pregnant am so happy for them (think this is mainly to do with knowing how hard it has been for them) but still my heart aches..mainly for my DH. I am starting to feel like a failure and and insecure.
Enough about me just wanted to know if anyone feels the same and if its normal?

Hello Beaklet- *Rescue Remedy* i have not heard of this. Is this something your Doctor has given you? Sounds like i could do with some at the moment. I have been a total B****h to my DH over the holidays (mood swings) and poor fella not got a glue whats wrong with me and i dont know how to explain that i dont really know myself other than ...and this sounds awful and noway could i tell him but i actully hate him at times, for no reason. He is starting to really irratate me. Maybe i could do with some counsilling, am not sure! (my DH is no good at talking and i dont want to upset him) Oh god am so angry,confused,disapointed, emotional, every thing going i think!

Sorry i said i didnt want to babble on about me so i will shut up now!

Best wishes to everyone and as always  to all x


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## little lebowski

*Hi Loll*
Everything you describe sounds normal to me. I seem to be adopting an avoidance policy at the moment, I think its just a reaction - this is quite a recent thing and I hope its temporary. I avoid friends or partners of friends who are pregnant., I avoid people with little babies. Its just a self defence mechanism. I have been known to switch the TV over to avoid looking at or hearing about pregnancy, last night there was a programme called "One Born Every Minute" and I just knew it would not be good for me to sit through it even though its was probably quite interesting. Its because the last time I heard someone was pregnant between Xmas & New Year it sent me into a major meltdown, I felt physically shaken up, I had flashbacks to my recent miscarriage, I hated them for announcing it at Christmas which was a difficult time for us, I hated them even more for saying they hadn't even been trying, I hated me for having failed to be happy for them and for losing my own pregnancy, I was horrible to my partner and forbade him to mention it again, and I felt so mean about it at the same time, because its happy news (for someone else!) So I just don't want to get into that state again, avoidance is my policy!

I wonder if anyone else thinks our partners have a rough time because they aren't able to make everything come right for us., sometimes thats very difficult for a guy to come to terms with too and they maybe feel abit to blame in some way. Its probably a good thing to talk to your partner and let him while know you're disapointed about your situation, you don't want it to come between you.

I might try Rescue Remedy, seeing as everyone's raving about it! I started having really heavy bleeding again yesterday morning, had to go to hospital, they're calling it abnormal uterine bleeding and it'll have to be investigated - am so fed up! Perhaps my body is trying to tell me to give up TTC?


----------



## Loll

Thanks Little Leb, nice to know other's have the same feelings. Makes me feel abit better. Trying to be positive now and hopefully 2011 will be how'er year x x


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## hopehopehope

Loll -about a year and a half a go my cousin (whom I am not very close to and lives 200 miles away) had an early Mc and I have to say i wasn't sorry. She then went on to get pregnant again and had the baby just before xmas, i coudn't bear to even ask what sex the baby is.  She's only 2 years younger than me and already had a 10 year old. SO, what you're feeling is perfectly normal. I too love it when our FF ladies get their bfps and babies as we know what they've been through, but ordinary people who just have sex a few times and get a baby - i hate them. It's like a big black hole in me. I don't even want to associate with friends' kids anymore as it's such a stab in my heart.

Rescue remedy is a Bach flower remedy, a tincture - you put a few drops on your tongue if you've had a big shock, like when your legs go numb if someone nearly crashes into you on the car, or find out somone has died, or you find out you've got crap eggs! I think it is suposed to dissipate all your stress hormones that could be storing up for trouble in later life.


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## soozywong

Hi

Just to say relate to a lot of what you're saying.  Beaklet thanks for your amazing post.  You really made me laugh over the rabbit rescue remedy!  I think it is such a tough thing and it's not surprising that many of us have some feelings of depression.  Had a good intake 1-1 session with the leader of the mind-body course and felt better talking to her.  She knows people who've got pg at 42 and suggested realistic optimism which I thought was helpful.  Think people you know getting pg is one of the hardest things to hear.  Also littleleb, I agree that it's really hard for husbands/partners who can't make it better.

Anyway, must go but just wanted to say I understand a lot of it and I think we have to work out for ourselves what we can deal with at what time and others should be able to accept it.  It's a very very tough thing to be going through...

Lots of lvoe to you all

Sx


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## little lebowski

Hi All
*Beaklet*, welcome & thanks for your post which is of help to everyone of this thread, I'm sure. Relaxation tapes you mention & rescue remedy, appeal so will try those. Me & partner had hair analysis done by http://www.foresight-preconception.org.uk/ - anyone tried this?

Am going to try acupuncture again, hated having needles stuck in me, got me into a panic, but, as I did get pregnant after having 2 sessions its worth another go.

Saw my consultant yesterday for follow-up appt, it was a locum so there was no continuity & he was convinced I'd had ERPC, after miscarriage and I haven't (this didn't inspire confidence). He put my last lot of abnormally heavy bleeding down to age but hasn't recommended any investigations, post coital bleeding he thought may be cervical erosion but he didn't seem too bothered about that either - don't know whether to be relieved or concerned (!)

I had blood tests done for recurrent miscarriage which he said should have been done immediately after miscarriage, including lupus anticoagulant, anticardiolipm, antib2glycoprotein, thyroid function, cytogenetics, chromosome analysis. I think there were more as there were 8 blood samples taken, but thats about as much as I can recall.

For the bleeding he was about to prescribe something sounding like noresthrine (?) because he thought the bleeding indicated anovulation problems - but TTC isn't recommended on this, so I asked about other treatments to address anovulation & remembered Clomid is prescribed to make you ovulate. So I've got a prescription for 6 months of Clomid. Anyone taken Clomid before? Guess I won't be TTC naturally if I take Clomid. Though I'm kind of tempted to leave it awhile & give my body a chance to sort itself out. I'm not sure if anovulation is the problem, I'm having cramps, period pain, terrible PMS prior to and wilth the bleeding, I thought with anovulation I'd be free of these symptoms.

Oh well, onwards with 2011, good luck to all
xx

/links


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## Googlegirl

Hi Girls - Thanks for your welcomes and its so nice to being touch with other similar aged GIRLS who are all facing the same hurdles. 

Little Leb - sending you a big hug and I hope your doc gets a handle on what is happening soon

Yes Loll it is hard to know how to handle your partner sometimes - I found it easier keeping things to myself when I was TTC with IVF with hubby.  I did all my talking with friends but I wonder if made him feel a bit shut out over everything.  I think I always felt like he was not so fussed about having kids and that any anxiety I was feeling was pretty much down to me to process myself.  I think he did feel terrible that it was his vasectomy that got us into the fertility problems but he was never that good at talking about it himself.  It's so hard to know what to do for the best.

Hopehopehope - So sorry to hear of AF playing with your hopes again, it's horrible when a regular cycle is late and then turns up - I've tested postive on day that period is due and then been negative a few days later - maybe something was still working for you so don;t give up hope - GRRRRR - its incredible what our body can do to us sometime.  On what you said about anti -depressant you have made me feel better about not taking it.  My instinct told me not to take it but I was in such a mess that after 6 months of not taking it I was sure I had done the wrong thing in refusing it - maybe I was right to stay away after all!  

Maisie Cat - most of my hysteria has been about the marriage breakdown last year and, like you, I have not been in floods of tears about the M/C but whenever I look at the scan picture taken afterwards I do snivel at its emptiness.  I can imagine that a positive result when you know what has happened is such a torture.  

Hi to everyone else! 

I had all my blood tests taken the other day - about thirteen of them but they said I would not get the results until April!!!!!  WtF!!!  I calmy advised the nurse that I was no spring chicken and that three - four months felt like forever.  She said I should just keep trying anyway so I am pondering that now.  She also said to me 'I know it's a chore to keep trying' but I told her that I was only 6 months into a new relationship with a 37 year old fireman and that TTC was far from being a chore - why do I always give too much information!!

Anyway - not content with my massive post from last time I now have something to add.  On my way back from acupunture yesterday I found myself walking past a crystal shop and thought that a nice crystal would help with happy vibes.  The woman in there was a white witch apparently (nothing like the one in Narnia I hasten to add!) and I struggled to work out what to ask for so I ended up just saying 'have you got anything that would help an old bird to get up the duff?'.  I ended up leaving the shop with some fertility oil which can be dropped into the bath or worn as a wee perfume.  I was also given a candle and told to annoint it with the oil at 7pm on a Friday which is the day of Venus and love and sex apparently and to wish a baby on myself.  Then the candle should be burned for a wee while while you visualise yourself pregnant.     She was a bit vague about what happens after that but I suspect you are supposed to head off and ride your man into the middle of next week if you are TTC naturally, or to link the candle burning spell to whichever state of treatment you are at.  

I found the candle burning very peaceful and the oil smells very nice.

My lovely man who is used to all my wierd and wonderful ideas did have to push his boundaries a bit more for this one but anything which results in me being naked by candlelight seemed to work for him!

So yes - I have officially resorted to casting spells on myself but it was all less than a tenner and I'm sure it won;t do any harm.

I'm off for some more abracadabra's and I'll catch y'all soon

Big hugs all round       

Bxxx


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## Loll

Thanks Girls it's so good to know others understand how ttc at a certain age feels and the emotional rollercoaster we go through. It means alot to know your not alone and others feel the same. I love FF! 

As always   and    to all x


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## soozywong

I agree, it really does make a difference.  Littleleb I'm so sorry you're having to go through so much uncertainty, pain and confusion - sounds very hard but that you're coping well.  I took clomid for 3 months a couple of years ago - I was ovulating but it was just the first thing they put you on I think.  

I'm struggling cos suddenly haven't ovulated for the last 2 months and don't know what's going on and it's doing my head in, the cycle of hope and disappointment each month is hard enough but when the hope's even taken away, there doesn't feel like much left!  I can't understand why it's happened, my cycles have been a bit all over the place since my IVF in September, first month don't know whether ovulated or not 2nd and 3rd think I did although 2nd months signs not great but these last 2 months don't know what's going on.  Admittedly still mid cycle at the moment but no signs of CM, ov stick and temp all over the place. That's how knew I didn't ov last month cos temp never went up.  Think I mentioned before.  Of course now I feel like I'm never going to ov again.  And feels so unfair when I'm doing everything - acu, herbs, supplements, diet...  Has anyone else had this and then started ovulating again?  Very confusing and depressing.

Hope you're all OK.

Sx


----------



## soozywong

PS A friend told my yesterday that a friend of hers who's 46 had been trying to get pg since late 30s.  Had just given up and then got pg naturally with twins... Amazing.


----------



## MaisieCat

Hi all,

Just a quick one because we have a take-away on it's way 

Loved your little story about the white witch, Beaklet - and the comment about your new relationship with your lovely fireman made me smile.  And those ideas of yours aren't weird - they are wonderful.  Absolutely nothing wrong with being open-minded - you just never know what might help - even if it just gets you or your man 'in the mood' .

Sorry I can't help with what's happening with you, Soozywong.  I do hope it settles down and it's just a little 'blip'.

Love to the rest of you girls.
Got to go now - food has arrived.

A-M
xx


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## little lebowski

*Maisiecat* 
So sorry to see you had to go through ERPC on top of m/c 

Soozywong
Sorry you are having probs with ovulation - I might be having the same problem myself. 
Do you mind if I ask whether you have cramps and/or pain with periods. I always thought cramps/pain during periods meant that I was ovulating, I have read about this in a few websites. I have rarely ever in my life had pain-free periods (due to endometriosis) so I guess I could be mis-reading the cramp/pain signs? 
I see you were prescribed Clomid for 3 months, did this help you in any way? Sending you lots of positive vibes! 
xx to all.


----------



## lilysilver

Hello ladies, not 42, but I hope it's ok for me to join in.

I'm 44, TTC our second child.  Met my partner in my 40s, we conceived easily but miscarried twice, once at 11 weeks and once at 5 weeks.  I was in a panic as I wasn't 'proven' - had always been careful about contraception, so had no idea if was able to carry a pregnancy or not.  Read Randine Lewis' The Infertility Cure and decided to do phone consults with The Fertile Soul - sourced herbs and acu locally.  It worked well for us, unbelievably we conceived twins, but lost one at 10 weeks.  My baby boy has just turned two and is fantastic.  I was 41.5 when I conceived and 42 when I delivered, so I hope that gives some of you hope.

Since then we have been trying for 18 months - and nothing!  Not even a chemical.  Did the Fertile Soul again, and tried another clinic; have had three acupuncturists.  Then thought we would try IVF, but had a strange experience - attended for the initial consultation in September, by January nothing had started!  So I sacked them.

Luckily I have been on the waiting list to see Dr Xiao-Ping Zhai on Harley Street and managed to get a cancellation appointment for this month, so I'm hoping she'll tell me whether it's the end of the road or not.

Oh, and I just found out I have moderate to strong anti-nuclear antibodies (Drs knew 3 months ago but didn't tell me - aaarrrgh!) - does no one sense the urgency?  - but am having trouble getting prednisolone.  Planning to have further tests to see if I have any other immune issues.

I have glimpsed at the 26 pages of this thread, and will find the time to go and read back over it.  So much of what has been written struck a chord.

I know the pain and panic TTC can bring.. Good luck and baby dust to all!! 

Laura


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## hopehopehope

Hi Laura - glad you have one baby! Most of us are still trying to conceive number one, so it's lovely to hear your story. At 43 i dont hold out much hope for me - i am just about to have my last ivf then move onto donor eggs in APril if it doesn't work. 
Hello to everyone else xoxox


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## lilysilver

Hopehopehope, have you tried DHEA? Not sure how much time you have before your IVF?

I too was just starting to get my head around donor egg when the Dr Zhai appointment came up - so 'the end' has been deferred, for now. Would you use Reprofit if it came to it? Obviously, I wish you the best of luck with the IVF and hope this will be it for you.

Also (!) have you tried this calculator http://www.ivfpredict.com/index-1.html? You may come out better than the dismal stats - the results seem to depend quite a bit on the medication used.

Best wishes,

Lil

/links


----------



## soozywong

Hi

Welcome *Lily* and good lucky with Dr Zhai - I'd be interested to hear how that goes. Thanks too for your encouraging story. I'm on DHEA and still trying at 42... Where did you try for IVF. The Lister are excellent with "older women".

Everyone else, apologies for being so quiet, have started this mind body fertility course at The Bridge which has been great, and have been feeling a lot better the last 2 weeks, but also been v. busy and trying not to spend too much time on the internet.

*Little Leb*, I'm so sorry I realise I hadn't replied to your last post, I do get some cramps/pain with period but don't know the connection with ovulation. I had clomid couple of years ago, but didn't seem to make any difference to me, apart from shorten my periods (and they've never got longer since!). Amazingly, after I posted last time, I suddenly got some CM the next day - never been so pleased to see it! so I did ovulate which I was relieved about. Have you had any joy this month?

*HHH,* good luck with your IVF. Will be thinking of you. I'm in a similar position, will be doing next and last OEIVF with Lister in March/April, and then thinking about DE in the summer...

HEllo to everyone else.

Sx


----------



## Bright Eyes

Hi girls
Been watching from a distance as not been too good. Had hoped to embark on our last tx using frosties from a tx when I was 40 ( 44 next weeek !!... really depressed). It feels like a strange time as I must have conceived on by birthday last year if the dates that we were given before the missed-misscarriage were anything to go by. Memories can be painful things.  
Anyway, we have had to delay as I have a bout of Bells Palsy.  Had it about 8 yrs ago and now have again on the other side. Face has froxen, like being at the dentist for a filling but it does not ware off. Makes eating, talking for long and drinking hard. Also my eye does not blink all the time and so have to have drops and not read/ use pc/ stare for long and no driving. As my job is driving and talking I am confined to base and signed off for 6 weeks. So bored but have a clean house and getting chores done that normally no time for.
Any ttc natrually or otherwise is on hold until I rid my body of the mega steriods and anivirals and get to feel tiptop again.

Love to All
Bright yes.


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## hopehopehope

ah bright eyes - you're having a hard time chuck. Wish i had a clean house though, i would SOOOOOOOOO love to have some time at home where i wasn't too ill. Are you still going to use your frosties??


----------



## Spuds

Hi Ladies 

Sorry been completely AWOL - can't even remember last time I posted  - have been having some time out with DH and sadly been grieving missed mc  whilst it happened all the way back in August - it took until a couple of weeks ago for the hospital to have the cremation  we wanted to know the date so we could have a blessing with our vicar and just me and DH which we did and it was really hard but very therapeutic.....we then went to let off some helium balloons (as you do  ) and they got stuck in the flippin tree !!!! so I made DH drive all the way back into town and I found a heart balloon which we let off again and it was fine ....it seemed to mimic the trouble we have had with this infertility thing but I like to think that the heart balloon getting free symbolised just how much love we are prepared to put into this pot to break free and create our family - whatever it takes and wherever they come from  

Blimey - not here for months then have a monster ramble on sorry girls 

What we have decided is we are just going to have some time out - no more oe IVF for us - just TTC naturally - have made it once so hope and pray in time we will get there again and hey the summer is only round the corner and we intend to enjoy this one for a change 

I will try and read back and catch up on 'whats occurring' and in the meantime send loads of love and hugs to all 2011 is a good vintage for us I'm sure 

Spuds
xxx


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## hope25

Hi spuds, maisy, HHH, brighteyes, littleleb, soozywong...

Hi Lilysilver...i am also not 42...43 now...but this thread is for all us over 40s....so welcome...intresesting to know you had a baby from acu...i have had 33 sessions and felt uncomfortable with the whole process..the chinese woman didnt speak any english and i found her very stern and unnerving...and kept pushing me to buy herbs for several hundred pounds..i think i should maybe try someone else as the only child i have had is a natural pregnancy..have had 4 cycles at lister and several ovulation induction and clomid cycles during the last 4 years with no result. How did Dr Zhai appt go..i was considering her myself but her sessions are 10X the price i am used to and she is in central london so added travel time and expense...just the thought makes me stressed...but if she gets results...i will be throwing my credit card her way. Let me know how you get on. Thanks for the ivf predictor..i only got 2.9% of a liver birth chance  ...but it didnt ask if i had any natral live births...

I am on the last 3 days of my 2ww of my 2nd ivf...if it doesnt work then i will be ttc naturally this month while i get the drugs out of my system to try ivf again...
I wish you all so much luck...my only live birth was with ttc naturally..and this when the docs had said it was impossible for me to get pregnant without IVF!!...


Hi to everyone else
 
lots of luv
hope 25
xx


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## lilysilver

Dear Spuds,

I know how heartbreaking a MMC can be  .  With our Pebble (lost at 11 weeks gestation) the hospital were very good and gave us the remains in a tiny white cardboard coffin, smaller than a shoebox.  We bought a weeping birch tree and buried her(?) under it.  It is a tough road, but we have to be "in it to win it".  When you are ready, perhaps you will be able to try again.  And just today I went to see someone and her 6 day old baby who also advised me not to 'try'.  She had two children several years ago, then lots of losses, including a 2nd tri loss.  But she said that when they gave up and stopped trying, it happened.  I don't say that to infuriate you, but to endorse your shifting down a gear - if anything I think that will help you succeed  

Hope25 - exciting!!  What is your intuition telling you during your TWW - it this it do you think?!  Wishing you lots of sticky-baby dust   I know what you mean about stern TCM practitioners, I recently gave up on one (we kept rowing all the time  ).  If it doesn't feel right, I would move on.  There are lots of good ones out there.  The chemistry between you is important (as is the ability to communicate clearly) because you need to trust them and feel able to relax and know you are in good hands. Dr Zhai is quite imposing, but in the days following my visit, much of what she has said and advised has rung true.  I think she is very good at what she does.  She wasn't overwhelmingly positive about my chances, but she was realistic and I feel strangely calmer now that I am under her care.  I know what you mean about the cost, but we worked out that if I carry on til my 45th birthday, we will have spent half what we would have on one shot of IVF.  The travel for me costs almost as much as the consultation.  I am impressed by her herbs - they are granules in sachets, but taste exactly as they would had I boiled raw herbs for two hours; they're nothing like the powder.

p.s. Hope25, Dr Z says 43 is much better than 44 (my age).  Her waiting list is about 6 months long, so if you think you might use her, why not put your name down?  You can always cancel if your BFP happens in the meantime.

Lets hope this is our year, all.

Lil X


----------



## Spuds

Hi Lilysilver xxx 


thanks very much xxx I think you have to take your 'foot of the gas' so to speak sometimes and I really hope you are right  we 'feel' much better and relaxed and that has got to be a good thing 


Its so hard to get through mc ;( - but how lovely of the hospital to do that for you and what a beautiful gesture with your tree - I think it really helps to have something personal to help you through xxx


Sending loads of love


Spuds
xx


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## Tess1

Hi ladies
Have just sent off enquiry form to the Argc, finally taking the plunge after trying to concieve for 2 1/2 years naturally. Excited and scared as I know my age is against me (43). Any advice on this clinic or anything I should be doing in preparation? thanks


----------



## MaisieCat

Hello Ladies,
I am back! Have not posted here for a while and see that it has all gone very quiet, but I thought I'd post an update of my situation and see if anyone has any thoughts to share.

First a very condensed history for those of you that don't know me from before...
After a failed IUI in September and a natural conception in October last year, followed by a missed miscarriage in December and an ERPC in mid-January after a positive pregnancy test and a scan showed that the mc was still not complete, we decided to have a break from treatment and just try on our own.

Last week we had another consultant appointment and have just had the result from the FSH, AMH and Testosterone tests that I had as a result. My FSH has shot up to 19 (it was 6.7 in March last year) and my AMH is only 1.03. Testosterone was OK (small consolation).

We now have a decision to make. We were lined up for a round of IVF on my next cycle, as long as AMH came back at > 1.1. Given my actual results, they are now not recommending we go ahead, although they have said they will let us do it (on Clomid rather than Menopur/Supracur) if we insist, and are only giving us a likely 7% chance of success. Apart from taking the donor egg route (which neither of us are keen on), our other option is to try naturally on a high dose of Clomid (4 tablets a day on days 2 to 6 of cycle).

Have any of you ladies any experiences to share? I'm clutching at straws here as I'm sure there are not many ladies of my age (42 yesterday) and situation.

I think I might post this as a 'stand-alone' thread as well to see if I get a better response, but thought I'd try here as I have enjoyed chatting here in the past.

A-M
xx

P.S. *Tess1* - I suppose our situations are vaguely similar, having read some of your previous posts. I do know a lady that has just got a BFP at ARGC, although she is much younger (I met her on my clinic's thread, but she moved to ARGC and kept in touch). We have considered trying there, having heard of their success with older ladies, but think the travelling on top of everything else might just be too much (we are about an hour from London). What I do know is that it is very intensive at ARGC - monitored cycles and lots and lots of visits for scans during a treatment cycle (although I am sure it varies from person to person). Will be very interested to hear how you get on, just in case we decide to go there for a second opinion.


----------



## soozywong

Hi

Sorry haven't been in touch for ages.  I'm afraid I haven't got any advice for either of you (Tess or Maisiecat) but thought would post a reply.  I haven't used ARGC, I just had my third and final OEIVF at the LIster which sadly failed.  I also had a similar thing in that my AMH had also gone really low - 1.67 I think and was really shocked, we went ahead anyway just in case. I'm afraid I don't know re high dose clomid, hadn't heard of that option.

Tess, I see you started this thread. I wish you all the best with ARGC, have you had your AMH etc done recently?  In terms of preparation, have you heard about DHEA, that has really helped some people (there is a thread about it on here).  Also I guess acupuncture can help, taking good quality vitamin, relaxing... but you probably know all that.

I'm now looking at the donor egg option, feeling like I'm grieving having my own biological child (I'm sure it's not going to happen naturally, first period after cycle was 6 days early and it seems to have been very early a lot recently), and getting my head round DE.  For us it feels like a great second choice option, even though it is a lot to get head around.

Lots of love to everyone on this thread.

Sooz

We are


----------



## MaisieCat

Hi Soozy,
I can concur with you re. odd length cycles.  After my mc my cycle appeared to go back to normal, but then started messing me about.  For several months in a row now the ClearBlue monitor results have been irregular and I've been getting spotting for a whole week before my AF starts properly.  Never had that before - would just get a day or 2 max of spotting then bang in to AF.  Just get that feeling that things have drastically changed now and are not going to go back to 'normal' again ever.

I know how you feel re grieving over biological child - I am just not sure I will be able to get my head around it.  I have a sister and a cousin who have offered eggs, but even if that were practical (I think there are many rules in this country stopping you from doing such things) I think even that would be a bit 'odd'.  Besides, they are only 5 and 3 years younger than me, so chances would not be good anyhow.  One thing my consultant did say was that a decision to go the donor egg route is rather less urgent because the chances don't decline with recipient age anywhere near as quickly as own egg chances.  

Wishing you all the luck in the world, whatever you decide.
A-M
xx


----------



## lildebb

i will be 42 in september...I am having my second icsi....positive on friday, but still early days!  TTC is no longer an option.  My bro in law and sis had 6 times, then success.....I am a second generation adoptee, so adoption is an option for me i this wouldnt work out (who's known of 3 generations of adoptees?)  I actually love adoption because it was SUCH as special experience for me...such a bizarre and crazy story it could be a book!  Ok..back to current reality...I just have a good feeling...I have had imagery, my mother in law has (although we didnt agree, ha ha)...I had certain things that are happening now that make it meant to be...my mom is terminally ill and that is the other burden I bear (for waiting so long)...but she is here with me and I hope that I can share at least this experience with her...


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## hopehopehope

Maisie  ans  Sooz  - i'm qith you there girls -everoyone else seems to have moved on and I am stuck 

Hello to lildebb hope it is still positive!


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## hopehopehope

bump bump - how is everyone!!!


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## AnnieBox

Hi there I an new to this!

I am 41 - 42 in October and have TTC for several years.
I've just been diagnosed with blocked tubes and having them either tied or removed next week! Concerns over IVF following this at my age.
Other threads seem very positive but not sure at my age if I will have the same results - I can only live in hope...
I'm going through London Womens Clinic, any ideas if they are any good?


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## Loll

hope x3 hello its gone very quiet on here chick how you doing? x
anniebox i had blocked tubes back in 1995 and while waiting to see doc regarding next steps i fell preggers strange but true and had my youngest daughter. however i went on to have my tubes tired got divorced met new dh who as no children and back at ttc. I have now got one damaged tube due to endo all them years ago and now prob due to age just not managing to get preggers.  Ivf might be a good thing for you and there is plenty of ladies who are getting preggers. Take a look at the over 40's success stories its very inspiring. Good luck x
Hello to anyone else reading this 
Loll x


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## MaisieCat

Hi you lot!

I haven't been posting on here just now as we decided to have a 'long shot' at IVF and I'm in the middle of it at the moment so I no longer really 'qualify' as 'TTC naturally', but I just thought I'd pop back with an update as I have got to know so many of you on here.

I have had a 'sort of' natural IVF - starting off just stimming with Clomid and then had some 'boosters' of Menopur once the follies got going.  Been quite a long process so far as it was 3/7 when I started the Clomid and I've lost count of how many scans I've had!  However, I now have 5 follies between 9 and 18mm and EC is tomorrow.  Fingers crossed!

Hope you are all well ladies.
A-M
xx


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## hopehopehope

maisie - this is where i know you from !!!!!!! Good luck with EC tomorrow xxx

Loll -- after 3 failed ivfs i found out i have unterine chlamydia (even though NHS test is neg) high NK cells and MTHFR so need aspirin, 5g folic acid a day, 5g steroids a day for nex ttwo months and if i get bfp naturally i will need clexane( heparin) and anti biotics and anti virals as soon as i get a pos test. 
So p'd off that all our money was spent on ivfs that would never work. DH and i took antibiotics for a month each, his sperm went from 10 ish million to FIFTY million!! We were told at Serum that (despite NHS telling us DH sperm was ok) we would never have gotten pregnant naturally. So..... now trying naturally and am half way through 2WW. Am sure that even though issues now solved there isn't much chance of it working as two years on, eggs are now totally bollocked. Am mad angry with NHS for always following protocol and not looking outside of the box. Have app with NHS consultant in Spetember just to tell him where he went wrong with us, hoping it might help someone else. 
Sorry to see you have stopped TTc. i hope you are enjoying life to the full !!!!! lots of love HHH


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## Loll

Hope x 3... Bloody hell why oh why do they not check these things out first before as you so rightly say waste money on ivf that can not work. Oh i feel for you hun but now you know what is going wrong HOPEFULLY it will work with all the new meds you need to take. Shame though because as you say your now 2 yrs older and more to the point so are your eggs! Really hoping and praying that you get what you deserve chick and a lovely BFP in the near future. Bloody nhs drive ya mad!!! I have read so many stories on these sites of women having all kinds of tests done and all i had was hormone tests which at the time was good, makes me wonder if i also have other problems stoping me concieving seeing has all i managed in 2 and half yrs was one chem preg yet with ivf all though none stuck all 7 eggs fertlized?? I too could have had many more attempts and wasted more money if it was not to be!
I have been to gp's tonight for my scan results and was told i had a small stone/cyst on left kidney but gp says not to worry about that and although at scan they want me to go back for xray gp says to not bother!(my mum was mad about that when i told her and she said to certainly still have xray) I also have a growth approx 11mm on my liver and gp said that he will request a speacillist to look at my scan pic's and said for me to come back in 2 weeks for his results!! So another 2 weeks of worrying what the hell it is!!!
Sometimes i really do think what the hell!!!!
Lots of love and   loll x


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## hopehopehope

take milk thistle for your liver, it will help de tox it from exces hormones - hopefully help. I really hope it's nothing sinister x


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## Loll

Thanks hope x3 not heard of that but i will look in tescos when i go shopping today x


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## soozywong

Hi Everyone, sorry not to have replied earlier.  Good to hear all your news although sorry not better; HHH, sorry that things weren't diagnosed earlier, how utterly frustrating.  How did antibiotics make such a difference to DH's sperm.  Really hope you have better luck now.  Maisiecat, good luck with IVF, how did EC &ET go?  Loll, sorry to hear your news, and hope everything OK with liver.  Welcome to Anniebox.

It's a tough old game, afm we're looking at DE now, off to Spain (procreatec) next week for initial consultation.  My periods are all over the place, irregular and heavier (great) and my AMH is 1.7 so thinking not much hope for us naturally (although of course it's impossible not to have a glimmer each month and still vaguely trying).  But also trying to move on and hope that DE will be more successful.

Lots of love to everyone on this hard hard road.

Soozywong


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## hopehopehope

soozy - good luck in spain xx


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## MaisieCat

*Soozy* - Thanks for asking after me. I'm afraid my IVF wasn't successful. We did get 2 eggs, but neither or them fertilised, so I'm back to square one. Not ready to give us just yet though. Good luck for your consultation in Spain re DEIVF. Our consultant suggested Spain for DE, but we aren't ready for that yet. Do let us know how you get on.

Love to all
A-M
xx


----------



## little lebowski

Hi All
I recognise a few folk on this thread. Good to catch up and read through some of the threads. Am impressed that many of you have continued on your TTC journey.
We took some time out after TTC with IVF and naturally, ended in miscarriages. Not sure what next for us, feels like the odds are stacked against it. 
Just wanted to say, for all those ladies with low AMH, IVF worked for me with after my AMH plummeted to below 1.03. It had been around 11.00 a couple of months before IVF (I was devastated to be told it had plummeted). And following that, even with my low AMH, I conceived naturally - so it does happen!
Good luck everyone.
xx


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## Loll

Hope x3 and Maisiecat how are you both chick's 
Soozywong good luck with DE
Little leb hope you well and hoping you manage another BFP but this time to stay with ya chick
To anyone i have missed Hi
And as always    to all you lovely ladies

Love
LOLL


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## hopehopehope

Hi loll !! Am ok. Af 2 days late and have fingers
Crossed despite neg test yesterday. Am now
On aspirin and low dose steroids and lots of folic acid
after immunes came back with high nk and mthfr pos. If it 
Is a Bfp it will be my first since 2007, am so hoping, though also
panicking as my clinic is closed for 5weeks and they saiid I would
need clexane and anti bs and anti virals as soon as I get a bfp and 
I won't be able to get any :-( 

How are you anyhow, is life more chilled without the constant
stress of ttc? 


Love to everyone x


----------



## soozywong

Hi, "good" to hear all your news although sorry we're not all having more joy.  Maisie Cat so sorry about IVF, that must be really disappointing.  HHH, good luck, so hope you get good news. Little Leb, interesting to hear you were able to get pg after a low AMH although so sorry it didn't work out.  I so hope next time it does.  It's so hard to know when to move on and it's got to be the right time for each person physically, emotionally etc, for me, my AMH was also low (1.6) and periods have gone irregular and didn't respond v well to IVF and thought I can't put myself through this any more as chances feel so low, but it's a hard decision to make, and we're still trying as we wait to do DEIVF and obviously people do get pg at our age which gives hope.

Anyway, love to everyone from Brighton on this sunny Monday morning.

Sooz


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## hopehopehope

Af started 17 days post ov . Tested just in case but it was neg. Boo hoo .


----------



## Loll

Hope x3    better luck this next mth really   you get a BFP before too long and it does happen so hang in there x

I have had such a crap yr  and on top of everything else it was'nt easy deciding to throw in the towel ttc. We dont bother using contraception just excepted it wont happen for us and has hard has this was intialy it really is one less thing for me to worry about and not having to count the days etc. I was being really hard on myself and every month af arrived i felt i had failed yet again. I still dont get why when hormones had been good and when we did ivf i got 100% fertlization that i did not get a bfp (except the chem preg in feb 2010) i expect having only one good tube did'nt help!! Anyway this yr i have had so many other things going on i would'nt of been able to mentaly cope with negative hpt month after month. I go docs tomorrow for update on results of liver and kidney ultrasound that i had. I have been anxious today about it and sensing bad news! Just hope my senses are completing wrong with this one!

I like to keep my eye on ff, knowing what its like ttc seeing others get BFP's makes me feel happy and just because we deciced to stop does not mean i think others should. I admire the ladies and gents and hope they all get to have the baby they so deserve!

Love Loll


----------



## MaisieCat

Hi all,

Lovely to hear from a few people that haven't been on this thread for a while.  Sorry to hear your hopes have been dashed again HHH - we all know that feeling by now  I'm sure.   

I can really empathise with those of you that have decided to stop actively TTC.  We are really getting towards that point now.

We had our follow-up appt for the abandoned IVF cycle this afternoon and were told basically that there is no point in us trying IVF or ISCI even again.  All I've got now is Clomid.  They confirmed that the Clearblue Monitor is pretty much worthless for someone in my position as my LH is probably yo-yo-ing and it will just pick up the first peak and assume I'm ovulating even if I'm not (I suspected something like this because I carried on using it through my IVF cycle just out of curiousity and it gave me my 'peak' days before I'd even got any follicles big enough to have eggs in).  They said I should come in about a week before my AF is due for a blood test which will check to see if I have ovulated and that, if after doing that for 2 months I have not ovulated, there would be no point in using the Clomid either.

They did mention DE of course, but neither of us are keen.  I am afraid that I would not be able to see such a child as 'my own'.  My sister has offered to donate (which I could have handled - we are very close), but she is now 37 so HFEA don't allow her to be a donor.  I think I would prefer to adopt than have an unknown DE, but that's a conversation yet to be had with DH.  He is still pinning hopes on our 2% chance of a natural BFP (as a mathematician I thought he'd realise that was foolhardy, but no).

Lots of love and luck to you all.
A-M
xx


----------



## Roselover

Hi I am new to this site and have found the advice and views given by you ladies very helpful!

I just want to add that I have read that ARGC- I have not been there- can be very expensive and very intrusive. You can do some general online search and some comments will come up. But they seem do get results- it is not easy- but you have to decide what to do. 

I also want to ask you ladies about Dr Zhai in London. I have been with her for about a year, and to be honest, despite her reputation, I have found the whole experience very underwhelming. I pay a small fortune each month for consultations ( about 5 minutes each time with her and most of time I do not even get a straight answer to my question). I do feel better after 1 year on her medicine, and I had one natural conception but mc very early on in March this year.She then referred me for scan and blood test. The scan indicated that I have had cyst- En condition. I know this is linked with fertility- but surely why did she not send me for all the necessary scans much earlier on? Also, does anyone know about IUI with her- I read reports that she sent patients for IUI instead of IVF but all she now talks about is IVF.

I have read someone here talking about Trevor Wing in Richmond. He does sound very good. Does anyone have any experience with him- good and bad are both welcome.

I am thinking about adoption too- but the county council will not allow you to start the process if you want to do more IVFs- so it is temporarily on the shelf. I am not ready to give up yet. I am not against the idea really- I think the most important thing is love between the parents and child. I know that both my husband and I myself will be very good parents.

Roselover


----------



## hopehopehope

Rose - myself and other ladies on this thread have had a lot of experience at clinics in uk and abroad - perhaps you should widen your options. You have no sig details so i dont know your 'story'. Have you had ivf?? Unless you have motility ussues with sperm or CM issues, it is not normal for ladies our age to have iui - might as well try naturally. Have you had immune tests done? What are your amh/fsh E2 results?


----------



## Roselover

Hi Hope
Many thanks for responsing so soon!

My details- I am 41, and have had 4 IVFs (1 long protocol with West sussex on NHS, 1 natural IVF with Create, and two short protocols with Create). Stopped IVF and went on with Dr Zhia in London since Sept 2010 and now about 1 year. Dr Zhia sent me to the usual test, yes my AMH is low but FSH is 10 now. My recent mc in early this year.

What I really want to know is any experience with Dr Zhia- to be honest, I am rather thinking stopping with her and goind to somewhere else as she is so vague each time as my body condition and when/ if at all, I should go for IVF. Particularly I know now that I have EN through scan. I just wish that could have the scan earlier so that I could have treated it much earlier.

Difficult to write it all down, but if you or other have any experince with her and perhaps Trevor Wing in Richmond. I would love to hear from you.

Rose


----------



## little lebowski

Maisiecat, your post resonated with me. We have always said if it happens, it happens, but IVF and TTC naturally have come to nothing for me, and we have been TTC since around 2006. I have similar concerns to you about DE (I'm never one to say never though!). Again we are here still saying if it happens it happens, and keeping everything crossed, but, having had some time out, hard though that was in itself, it made me realise just how many other things in my life I had put on hold, and interests/hobbies/friends I put on hold because TTC really took over everything in a big way, particularly the IVF, I truly admire anyone who goes through IVF even once, never mind twice or more, its just so gruelling physically, hormonally, emotionally. So, just at the mo. we're making the most of the good things we do have in our lives, health, love, family & friends, its helped re-balance, re-energise me, which has to be a good thing - you never know what you got til its gone!
love to all
xx


MaisieCat said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Lovely to hear from a few people that haven't been on this thread for a while. Sorry to hear your hopes have been dashed again HHH - we all know that feeling by now I'm sure.
> 
> I can really empathise with those of you that have decided to stop actively TTC. We are really getting towards that point now.
> 
> We had our follow-up appt for the abandoned IVF cycle this afternoon and were told basically that there is no point in us trying IVF or ISCI even again. All I've got now is Clomid. They confirmed that the Clearblue Monitor is pretty much worthless for someone in my position as my LH is probably yo-yo-ing and it will just pick up the first peak and assume I'm ovulating even if I'm not (I suspected something like this because I carried on using it through my IVF cycle just out of curiousity and it gave me my 'peak' days before I'd even got any follicles big enough to have eggs in). They said I should come in about a week before my AF is due for a blood test which will check to see if I have ovulated and that, if after doing that for 2 months I have not ovulated, there would be no point in using the Clomid either.
> 
> They did mention DE of course, but neither of us are keen. I am afraid that I would not be able to see such a child as 'my own'. My sister has offered to donate (which I could have handled - we are very close), but she is now 37 so HFEA don't allow her to be a donor. I think I would prefer to adopt than have an unknown DE, but that's a conversation yet to be had with DH. He is still pinning hopes on our 2% chance of a natural BFP (as a mathematician I thought he'd realise that was foolhardy, but no).
> 
> Lots of love and luck to you all.
> A-M
> xx


----------



## MaisieCat

Hi LittleLeb,
Lovely to hear from you again - especially to hear that you seem to be feeling so happy and positive. It is so hard to make a decision to have 'time-out' at this stage isn't it, but it sounds as though you have done the right thing.

I sometimes feel that that is what I want to do, but am so afraid I will regret not continuing to try seriously. It really feels like we only have a few months left. I could really do with a few decent glasses of wine, but I haven't drunk more than the odd small glass in what seems like an eternity, so I'd probably just get really drunk and sick (then hungover of course!). Then I'd wish I hadn't done it and wonder if it will have messed up our chances even more. We have a 40th birthday meal to go to on Saturday, so the temptation is right there!

I too have abandoned hobbies - horseriding fo r example - and avoided starting new things (was going to start running with a local FF friend until she was advised not to start new exercise regimes when TTC, so I followed suit). It truly can stop you getting on with yor life - so many things that you think might affect your chances, so you don't do them.

Oh well, I'm trying not to dwell on all this at the moment, so I'd better stop and perhaps try taking a leaf out of your book and get on with my life for a bit. You never know, those people that annoy you by saying _'oh, stop trying so hard then it'll just happen'_ might just prove to be right after all.

Love & hugs to all
A-M
xx


----------



## little lebowski

Hi Maisiecat,
I'm glad you found my post happy and positive, though feel I must point out it doesn't always feel like that. I'm just aware I'm in a different place to where I was a few months ago. I was miserable for awhile there n' think my hormones took a shaking up, it took quite some time to feel any sense of balance or purpose in life cos all I felt was that we'd been robbed of a future with children. No matter how kind folk are, it felt like I'd failed n' couldn't see how to go forward. TTC had become a way of life and with that goal removed it was really difficult to focus on anything or anybody else, TTC had been my focus for so long. 
I know exactly how you feel though, I worry that we might have missed the chance by taking time out, &, I do still hate it when people say just relax and it'll all happen. I completely gave up after miscarriage following IVF last year, because I was told my AMH was less that 1.03, and my ovaries were "dormant" - then a natural BFP came long. But I do still hate people saying that relax/give up/n'the stork'll arrive pronto, though cos its so not the way it works!! Cos we got hitched recently people keep mentioning "the stork", and the tier of our wedding cake coming out for "the christening", and, family planning, not long ago I would not have been able to handle this, & would have reacted really badly, a blubbering wreck probably, but, I'm ok with such comments, not ecstatic, just ok. I just let it wash over me, I just say with a smile, if it happens it would be lovely and conversation passes swiftly on to something else because most people seem to assume everyone can have kids. A close friend had a baby around the time ours was due, that was the hardest thing, it triggered lots of unhappy feelings and upset, and, sounds awful but I don't want to see or hear anything about this baby, defence mechanism I s'pose.

Oh well, time out or not, all that matters is what feels right for you. 
Luck & Love to all as ever
x


----------



## MaisieCat

Littleleb,

So much of what you just said rings very very true.  If I stop to think too much I get dragged down into grieving for the child we're never going have, so most of the time I've been just trying to get on with something else.  Dreams don't help though.  I have had some very vivid ones involving me having taken a totally different path through life - different partner, different choices, which have been a bit unsettling to say the least.

Such a shame about your close friend and her baby coming so close to what would have been your due date.  You know I think I probably would be just the same about it.  Hopefully you friend can understand and you can pick back up with the friendship once things are less raw.  I have drifted away from what were my 2 closest friends partly because I just don't think they could understand what I was going through.  They have both had their children and have split up with their partners and seem to have no concept of what a regret it is for me that I did not start trying sooner.  Last time I saw them both we had a good chat and they did try to be supportive, but they just kept coming back to the 'just relax and it'll happen' train of thought    and then returned to conversations about problems with children and ex-husbands!

Luckily DH & I are very good friends with another couple around our age, who also don't have children.  It's funny but, although we are good friends, we have never broached the topic with them as to whether they wanted a family, but they know about what we have been going through and have been very tactful and supportive.

Anyhow - must stop whittering on and get on with something useful I suppose....

Lots of love
A-M
xx


----------



## little lebowski

Maisiecat  
with hindsight we'd probably all do things slightly differently I guess. Know what you mean about dreams though, my most disturbing one was on my due date, woke up having contractions after dreaming I was giving birth - rather upsetting!

ok, so I'd just about given up TTC, then this story popped up and its really messing with my head!!!  
http://www.marieclaire.co.uk/news/celebrity/529986/sam-taylor-wood-pregnant.html

Was it luck, was it Clomid, was it IVF, who knows!

So am on Day 2 of cycle now, and have a pack of Clomid since April that I've never even opened, & trying to decide whether to try it or not (its recommended I take it Day 2-5). The trouble is, once I'm TTC, its like an addiction, it takes over everything, temping n' testing n' charting every day, sign-checking, I go on overdrive, my mind goes blank on everything else, not that healthy for me .... looking at my chart I see that I've charted 54 cycles (gasp!), and only conceived twice, once after IVF, and once the following month after IVF, so that counts as naturally I guess. So the odds do not look good. Decidedly undecided about Clomid.
Love to all xx

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## MaisieCat

Hi,
The Clomid has got to be worth a go, surely?  Did you take it yesterday or not?  I'm on a high dose of it (4 tablets on days 2-6) as a last ditch attempt - the only thing my clinic could suggest.  Had a blood test done yesterday (day 19) to check whater or not I ovulated.  Will get result on Monday.  I'm thinking of using the progesterone 'bullets' that I had left over from my abandoned treatment starting a few days before my AF is due.  Tried to get a quick chat with my consultant to ask him what he thought about it when I went in for the blood test, but he was busy.  They said they'd try to ask him for me and maybe I'll be able to speak to him Monday when I ring for my result.  
I'm trying hard not to let this take over my life again (hence not been coming on here every day like I was), although I have started charting my temp. from this month.  DH bought a Chinese Medicine book - The Fertility Cure - and there's lots of stuff in there about temperature charting so I thought I'd give it a go.  My temp has gone up and stayed up since the CBM said I'd ovulated - that a good thing isn't it?  We will see!
Right - I said this wasn't going to take over my life again, so off I must go.  There are several kilos of runner beans from my allotment in the fridge, waiting to be blanched and frozen - that should keep me busy!
Love &   
A-M
xx


----------



## little lebowski

Maisiecat do you have any side effects with Clomid?
know just what you mean, 1001 things to get on with and not started any yet, I'm still dithering bout Clomid. Looked up online and it seems I can probably take it on Day 3 (today), seems it doesn't particularly matter that much as long as I start it before Day 5. Mine's such a low dose though (50mg), and, I'm not being monitored, have asked but am told its not necessary, just see what happens. I feel the consultant gave it to me so I would go away and he could say he'd done something. I read Clomid can thin the womb lining and cause bleeding probs (yes too much googling!), as I already had a load of problem with that this year, so am kind of anxious. We're going on holiday in a couple of weeks and don't want any side effects.
I was on progesterone for 7 weeks last year once positive pregnancy test confirmed, might be worth taking your "bullets", it was when my progesterone stopped that things went wrong with the pregnancy. I begged my GP to keep me on the progesterone but he said it had to be prescribed by consultant, and my consultant at that time (NHS) wasn't that on the ball on that side of things.

A sustained temperature shift upwards is a reliable sign of ovulation, so keep temping, if there are any dips in your progesterone, you might see these as dips in temperature on your chart after ovulation (though there can be other reasons for dips), but it might give you some data on whats happening with your progesterone during the luteal phase, and that  might be helpful to your consultant. 

I'm wary of relying too much on all the blood tests though. I had ovulation tests (blood tests on day 21) recently and they said oooh, its so low, its borderline whether you ovulated or not, but when my GP checked them against 2010 results, I was amazed to hear the recent readings were actually better than last year's and I went on to get pregnant twice, after those low readings last year. So have all the tests, but treat the results with caution!
Those runner beans sound so good! of to wrestle with the weeds now ... xx


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## MaisieCat

Thanks for all the info on temperature charting.  My temp had been going up fairly consistently from days 14 onwards, apart from a downward 'blip' on day 18.  Today it's gone down again but not quite as low as before, so not sure about that - I'll see if it goes back up tomorrow.  Unfortunately my consultant does not seem interested in temperature charting.  He said he thinks it is much too unreliable and that readings can be affected by loads of non-fertility related issues.  Pah!  It's not going to stop me!

I didn't manage to start this month until day 5 though and, up until day 13, when CBM said I ovulated, my temp was going up and down like a yo-yo.  I know one of the highs was probably because I had a few drinks (the first time in an absolute age) the night before, but still it doesn't make it easy to compare before ov. to after properly.

Anyhow, I got my progesterone test result today (32.4) which I'm told is consistent with me having ovulated, so that is a start!  Have left a message for my consultant to call me back about taking the cyclogest 'bullets'.  Hopefully he'll get back to me later.

As for side-effects on the Clomid, I don't think I've really had any - nothing of note anyhow.  Quite surprising given the high dose and stuff I've read about it.  I think I'm on pretty much the maximum recommended dose!  My boobs have been quite tender and nips itchy since ovulation, but not sure if that's a side-effect or not.  They were just like that when I was pregnant so that's having the 'side-effect' of getting my hopes up   .  It's not really bothering me apart from that.  I did have a couple of nights early on in the cycle when I got a bit hot at night, but not so bad as to call it a proper 'night-sweat', which I did get a couple of times when I was pregnant.  In any case that might have just been because it was warmer on those nights!

Interesting that they did your bloods on day 21 - did they specify day 21?  I was told to have it about a week before my AF was due.  I ended up having it on day 19 (my cycles are 23-26).  They said a few days either way would not matter, and I assume that's right as I got the result I needed.

As far as Clomid thinning the womb lining is concerned, luckily my fears of that have been allayed by all the scans I had last month (when I was having IVF with Clomid as the initial stimulation drug).  They showed my lining was just as it ought to be despite the Clomid so unless that's something that gets worse with longer term use, I think I'm goign to be OK on that front.

I think all you can do is, if you do decide to take it, keep a close eye yourself on how your body is reacting.  You can always stop if you get worried.  I think it'll still have some effect even if you don't take it for the full 5 days.  They told me that it's effect on the follicles is usually a few days after you stop taking it, and that was borne out by the scans I had last month.

Anyhow, the washing machine is now 'beeping' at me, so I suppose I'd better go deal with it (oh joy!).

Hope you had a good weekend & let me know how you got on (or not) with the Clomid.

A-M
xx


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## little lebowski

maisiecat
mine did specify Day 21 for bloods, then the bloods were somehow lost/missing, and had to have them re-done on Day 22, my reading was 16.5, so yours sounds exceedingly good in comparison!
Did they tell you how many follicles you have then, (just interested/nosey). This is where I feel I should be monitored if I'm taking Clomid, otherwise its a guess as to any follicles/the best time to TTC.
Still googling Clomid stories, might start taking them tonight, this is Day 5, I read you can take them Day 5-10 as well, though my consultant did say to take them Day 2-6.  I see you take yours on Day 5. Mine are huge round horrible-looking tablets, which I might have trouble getting down anyway ... yugh!
Oh well, everything crossed for you for this cycle ... sounds interesting!
xx


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## little lebowski

PS Maisiecat
meant to write was, I'm keeping everything crossed for you this cycle


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## MaisieCat

I took them for days 2-6 inclusive, so for 5 days, not just on day 5 - or is that not what you meant?

They only did a blood test, not a scan this month so the number of follicles this time is still a mystery.

Last month when we did the IVF I finally ended up with 2 eggs (neither fertilised).  I think I had just the 2 follies that were big enough, with maybe 3 or 4 small ones that had nothing in them.  My egg collection ended up being on day 21. It wasn't until day 14 that any follies of decent size appeared (2 days after CBM had said I'd ovulated, so clearly I hadn't!) at that point they gave me 3 x 75 of Supracur a day to boost the ones that were nearly big enough.  I ended up taking the Supracur for nearly a week, along with something to stop me ovulating.  So, what was going to be a cycle just on Clomid because they said the other drugs were pointless with my AMH, got changed quite a bit.

Looking back, given that I only got 2 eggs after all those extra drugs, and the fact that it has just been proven that I ovulated this month (so must have had at least one egg), I think perhaps they were right to start with in saying that the other drugs would be pointless - all I gained was 1 extra egg, after drugs that cost about £150 a day.  One very expensive egg!

Thanks for the   .  I've been trying so hard not to think about all of this, having read how much stress can effect your fertility (I read today it directly affects your progesterone levels, which can't be good).  That's why I only come on here every few days - I just have to creep back to see how the odd few people are doing.

Anyway, good luck and    for you too, whatever you decide about the Clomid. I've not heard of taking it days 5-10, so I'm not sure whether that'll work or not. Personally I'd wait until next cycle.

A-M
xx


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## Krakiwi

Hello everyone. I'm new on this forum and feeling a little bit better after reading pages about all your experiences. It's very isolating particularly when you don't really discuss it with anyone other than DH. I am 42 now and TTC our second child. I hope this is the right forum for me to be on. 

We started TTC overseas 16 months ago and after 6 months of trying with no luck I sought some help (given my age). Tests conducted FSH 22.4. LH 12.9 but I think it was day 4 or 5 (don't know if that matters too much). I was told not to worry....just keep trying!. Given a family history of issues with thyroid, I asked for tests. Results showed TSH 8.2 T4 normal range. Told again....don't worry...retest in 6 months. Anyway, I ignored all of that and insisted on referral to fert specialist. Immed put on thyroxine 100mcg daily, tested one week after starting dose, TSH normal range and advised to retest in 6 months. Was again advised not to worry about fertility. No point doing AMH - why worry yourself. Recommended 3 cycles on clomid.  Conclusion - BFN * 3. 

Decided to move back to the UK a few months ago. Visted overseas clinic for retest of thyroid before I left - TSH - still 8.2. Thyroxine dose increased that day. Considering I had been told that I would have no chance of conceiving with elevated TSH I wasn't happy. Perhaps my levels had been high all the way through my clomid cycles....ho hum.

Anyway - now back in the UK and doing it all again. GP recommended London Fertility Clinic (Dr Asaad). Have had initial consult which was comprehensive and he seemed very nice. Bloodwork done again (holy heck how much did that cost) as I happened to be there on D3. 

AMH result - pending
FSH 17.9

When they emailed me the FSH result (17.9) yesterday Dr Asaad used the word "unfortunately''. My world seemed to come crashing in. Don't get me wrong - I understand a high FSH isn't great and given the earlier result I figured it would be high but given I have heard so much about clinics pushing you towards DE when your FSH is high I'm taking this in the worst way possible. 

My next appointment with him to discuss our options is in a couple of weeks. AMH should be available by then. Dreading it and can't wait for it to come around all at the same time.

Has anyone had good experience with London Fert Clinic and Dr Asaad?. I have picked up that lots of people recommend the Lister or ARGC. Is it better that I jump ship now?. I just don't think I can face wasting more time with this clinic if they are in any way ageist or likely to push me a certain way based on my FSH results. 

Feel a bit hopeless to be honest so places like this are about to become my lifeline I think .

Sorry if this is longwinded. With practice I'll get more succinct.


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## hopehopehope

Krakiwi - in mad dash as off to a party, but, if you have any history of thyroid it is likely you will have immune issues which will often 
surface AFTER first pregnancy. Ignore what any NHS way to you. Will PM you when i have more time. 

AFM
On day 34, not sure when ovulated as LH surge hasnt shown on test stick, but have had pre AF pains for ten days now which seems a bit excessive?? Will have to test soon as becuase i have immune issues will need to raise my steroids and take antibiotics to deal with any potential hidden chlamydia flare.  Any thoughts. SOme one send the courage to find out if it is negative xx


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## Krakiwi

Thanks Hope*3. Grateful for any insight and advice. I've now insisted that my GP refer me to Endocrinologist on NHS (why do you have to fight so much - almost ended up in an argument) although I'm going to pay private up front to get seen quickly and then switch to NHS. Pierre Bouloux - have heard good things. Hope you enjoyed your party and I'm sending virtual courage - have fingers and toes crossed.


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## Loll

Hi all
Dont really post much these days but do keep an eye on FF waiting to see some BFP's from you lovely ladies.

Hoping some one can help me out at mo because - well stopped ttc some months ago but for some strange reason for the past couple of days am wondering IF i might have fallen preggers!!!! scared to think about it too much but maybe one of you lovely ladies can shed some light on wether or not am going insane or there is another explantion??... Firstly the 1st day of my last period was 19th of Aug.  My hubby works away from home but we had sex on day 10 x2 and day 11 x1 only because my hubby was home and for no other reson than we wanted to. Didnt think anything of it but for the past couple of days i have had pain/discomfort low dwn and slightly to the right side of where my womb is, it was a little on and off but when i coughed i felt a tight pulling pain around that same place, abit like i had pulled somthing! i am feeling wet in the knicker area not like ov cm but wet! This is what as made me think ..could i be To add to this i have been a little emotional for the past few days also. I am today on day 17 of my cycle and when last used ov monitor i was ovulating day 12 (i last tested this in Feb 2011) Today i have so far felt no strange pains or discomfort. I am due on around day 26 to 28 so far too early to think about testing. My boobs are not really tender but starting to feel alittle tingly but then they do that leading upto af so nothing out of the norm in that area. Surly i couldnt possibly be, surly it cant be ovulation pains so late in my cycle as this would of been day 15 and 16, surly there is another explanation Please can anyone tell me if they have had symptoms like mine whether it went on to be a BFP or not. Feeling rather strange about the whole me thing and wondering what the hell as been happening over the past couple of days inside my body. Just want to add i am still wet in the knicker area! Really sorry for some of the tmi but i am confussed right now!

As always   to you all
Love Loll x


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## hopehopehope

Loll honey - i am in same boat as you! Only first day of my lmp was 1 august and am too scared to test. I usually ovulate day 12, but freakily ovulated day 19 last cycle, so i think age does make a difference, so dont get too excited (sorry hon) . This month my opk didnt pick up any surge even though i tested form day 10 - 19. I have EWCM on days 9,10,11,12 and pinkish spotting on day 16/17. Neg preg test on day 21, the more EWCM on days 22,23.(did ov tests sticks again and still didnt pick up lh surge) Day 24 i started with mild Af pains which i still have, and am now on day 35. Last cycle luteul phase was a longer than normal 17 days, so all this could still be Af on the way. To add to the mix, i am on 5mg steroids aday because of raised nk cells and know i need to up this if i get a natural bfp, but i cant bring myself to test. Would rather have a few more days hoping that its a positive rather than knowing its a negative. 

if i were you, i would test if you have symptoms, hcg in wee 3 days after first implantation. if no sympoms try and forget about it until at least day 24.  
ps  - impressed you did it 3 times in two days!!

Krakiwi - back to what i started yesterday. If you have thyroid probs it is an auto immune disorder. People with this are known to likely have immune issues. You should ask about steroids etc. See AGATE's thread on immunes. ALso , if you already had a child, then it is likely that this pregnancy kicked off immune response. 
Your FSH is high, they want it under 10 for any ivf. Get it redone on day 1 0r 2, but it goes hand in hand with E2 (if FSH is low, it is often beucase E2 is too high and therefore give false reading on FSH - quick explanation)
At 42 clomid is likely to thin your lining and cause chromosomally damaged eggs (so i have been told by consultant in Athens)

For fertility TSH HAS to be between 1 and 2. period. 

i have had IVF at Lister, but wasnt impressed. The best 'care' i have had so far is Serum on Athens. I would contact Peny there and ask for a telephone consult. When you have you consult at LFS ask about raised NK levels due to autoimmune condition. it might be that you wouldnt respons well for ivf, BUT that with extra meds to lower immunes you might get a natural BFP. 

by the way. FSH and AMH dont tell you anything of egg quality but more about how many eggs you could collect with IVF. The bigger deal is age, at 43 i have been told that 8o% of my eggs are chromosomally damaged and that  it is just a case of waiting for the 'golden' egg or using a donor. 

From discussion if you are desperate to do and ivf cycle i would try a natural cycle, with very min stimms, at Create in London. ( or at Seum in Athens)

Serum might also ask you to take anti biotics and do a 'hidden chlmaydia' test frm menstrual blood. I tested neg for chlamydia on NHS, yet when i had menstrual blood analysed i had 6 milion chlamydia dna in it. This can prevent implantation and can often flare up at implantation or from a previous pregnancy. It is not necessarily  been sexually transmitted. 

sorry about all the typos!!! PM me if you need any help, this is a long and difficult road and we need all the help and advice we can get, which is unlikely to come from most doctors, who in my experience are often in it for the money, dont treat you holistically and see you on a conveyor belt system.


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## Loll

Thanks hopex3. And yes was feeling rather randy them two days lol. I know what ya mean about scared to test chick its awful at how age and knowing your road is coming to an end. Not been told 80% of eggs are damaged at 43 but that will explain why i havent managed to conceive these last y and a bit years. Strange for me as i had really stopped thinking about it and just excepted its not to be but with the past two days of strange symptoms it really does make ya think! I had said the pains/discomfort had stopped today but for the past half hout am aching dwn below not as much as i was and its more central than to the side but very low. I hadnt mentioned i had woke feeling very hot indeed nor that friday i kept going slightly lightheaded when i was at work but now am thinking about it i remember. Haha strange what ya think about. The most thing on my mind is how wet i feel (sorry for that info) keep nipping to the loo to wipe (yuk).  Its stupid really i need to stop thinking and just put it dwn to one of them things because i wont be preggers i cant am sure ..well almost!!! By your dates your 18 days in front of me so there is a good chance now that you might get your BFP. I am praying for you hun and hope you get it. As for me testing it really is far too early but then if my symptoms are due to pregnancy well surly its far too early for symptoms so am going to ignor my strange pains/discomfort and hope i dry up soon as am starting to have a complex haha.
Thank you for posting to me and sending you lots and lots of      
Anyway if i was preggers it really wouldnt be a good time as my hubby is going to Afgan next April and wouldnt want to do it alone not at my age now lol x x


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## Loll

Oh forgot to mention i had good cm on day 7 to 11
X


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## Krakiwi

Thanks Hope*3 - I need to fully digest everything you've told me so have only now sat down to have a good read. Thanks for taking the time out - I'm very grateful....this place is amazing . I now have an appointment with Endo on Sat am at London Clinic so will be better prepared with all your info. Hoping it all goes ok for you...x


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## MaisieCat

Just had to do a quick post after reading about you two, Loll and HHH, and your symptoms/late AF.

I had just the same last month.  My cycle is normally around 24 days and hardly ever >26, so when I still had no AF by day 29 (and had done several HPTs - all BFN) I was truly confused.  Then AF turned up in the afternoon of day 30.  I really hope it's not the same for you two.

BTW interesting what you said about Clomid being bad for us older ladies.  That's the only option I have been given by my clinic (SEFC) and it's a high dose (4 tablets a day, days 2-6).  I've only had 2 months of it, the first month being a stab at IVF using Clomid followed by some injectables, and this month after the weirdly long cycle last month (not sure if it was caused by the Clomid) I have decided to give it a rest.  Maybe that's for the best?

I do have enough for one more month of it, but now I'm wondering whether to bother.
Am teetering on the edge of giving up hope entirely, but keep thinking about getting consults at maybe Create or ARGC.  Trouble is, with such a low AMH/high FSH, I don't think they'll touch me with the proverbial barge pole!  

Good luck for your appointment Krakiwi - you are right  - this place is amazing for all the support and info.

Love and luck to all
A-M
xx


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## Loll

Thank you for your post. Sorry you got a bfn last month maisiecat. Well i thought symptoms had stopped but then last night i had mild af pains low dwn but central. A hot water bootle helped with that. Today no pains/discomfort as yet and not had night sweat for past two nights also have dryed up dwn below but had to leave work early as i was getting dizzy spells and feeling a little sick and couldnt deal with customers. Maybe am coming dwn with somthing as just dont feel very well at all.

I had thought i had got past the is this my mth thinking untill symptoms started but i know its stupid of me to think i could be!!

Praying you manage a BFP soon Maisiecat x x


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## MaisieCat

Aw thanks Loll.  I don't blame you for thinking as you are about your symptoms.  I suppose once you have been pregnant you can recognise (or think you can) all of your 'personal' typical early pregnancy symptoms.  I know it has definitely made me much more neurotic - noticing what I think is implantation bleeding, tiredness, itchy nips - and all very probably in the mind!!
A-M
xx


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## Loll

lol yep your prob right Maisiecat with that. I have had 3 children but a long time ago now as they are 25,23 and 15 to previous marriage but other than sore boobs that if i remember right came few days before missed period and i dont remember sickness starting till around the 8th week but as they say all pregnacys are diffrent. i have just read on another thread that a woman age 43 got a natural BFP and is now 13 weeks preggers she had been trying for 7 yrs and had a round of ivf and DEivf  bfn then fell preggers without trying!! strange how it works at times.
  loll x


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## hopehopehope

HI Loll and Maisie xxx am still waiting for period on day 37 - after negative test last night i really dont understand. difficult to trackas well as i had EWCM on days 9-13 then again on days 23 ish. All period pains have gone away and  i am dry as a bone down there, and have mildly sore bs. WHo knows!! Am now having major flap about being menopuasal and that being that.  I def did have pinkish bleeding for 2 days 16/17, but maybe these are all symptoms of an anovulatory cycle   for some answers xx


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## Krakiwi

Thanks Maisie Cat....am on such a roller coaster. Don't know whether the internet is a good or bad thing at the moment...I read a bleak story and then a miracle story based on the same (or similar) sets of results. Can you get pregnant with high FSH - course you can - no you can't - course you can...
I don't think it has really fully hit me yet that through my own life choices I may miss out on having another child. Damn career doesn't seem so important now. Almost don't feel I have the right to be down about it when it was my own choice to delay. Can't say it was a completely conscious choice if you know what I mean - I just didn't think there would be an issue - but it was a choice all the same.
I guess you just don't know how much you want something until its slightly out of reach  
I'm trying to think DE and figure out how I feel about that but then what are my chances there..
I'm trying to be positive....perhaps I'm just tired tonight. Sorry...
Wishing you all lots of positivity....x


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## Loll

Hopex3 i am hoping your wrong with the menopausal thing and that you have a late implanter. I have read (also know know someone) that with some women they dont always show BFP due to very high hcg that are out of detection range. 37 days is along time would of been very nice indeed for you to have a BFP but as they say it isnt over till the fat lady sings so hold on and re test in a day or so. The longest i went was 30 days but it was due to meds i was taking at the time but as we all know cycles are diffrent for each woman. A friend of mine ( who was not ttc and had 3 children age 22 16 and 12) thought she was hitting menopause stage as she had.t had period for three months after her 2nd missed period she tested and got a bfn then tested afew times again final after 3rd missed period when we was taking about this  i reminded her of her 1st pregnacy where she hadnt known she was pregnant until 6mths gone, she had fainted and was then told she was preggers the thing is she had missed periods but negative bfn which never showed positive! Anyway she decided to make a doc appointment but that weekend started bleeding very heavy and turned out she miscarried. She wasnt upset by it but surprised. She was going through seperation and had had sex with hubby during that time so she believed it to be a good thing. (i felt a little upset about it) i will be   that it turns out to be good news for you and will be wathing this thread   

Krakiwi sending you    x


Afm- Well i do believe the signs have been misread. I woke this morning with a dam cold/flu and not gone to work. I have light headache,stuffy nose, aches allover and generaly feel like crap i am so tired but cant get back to sleep. This is prob why i was feeling so dizzy yesterday. I do ache dwn below but am putting that dwn to the cold. My boobs tingle and feel alittle heavy, i only have slight cm now but then i am day 20 of cycle so that is normal for me. I rarely dont get af pains but on occation i have had cramping but only the day before af arrives or on the 1st day of af!

As always   to all
Love Loll x


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## little lebowski

Hello again everyone  
well, we all seem to be having a weird month, me too. Had EWCM on days 8-11, positive OPK on Day 10. This is weird for me cos its usually Day 12-15 at the earliest. Am only on Day 21, but feels like nips are going to explode and am intensely irritable, feel like shouting all the time/sleeping all the time, like the worst PMS imaginable. 
Since Day 18, felt as if I have ground glass in my nips (ouch!), look puffy, bbs feel heavy as rocks. Considered taking pain relief on Day 19 as so sore. Don't know what to think, maybe it just means I ovulated and this is a sign that I'm in the second half of an ovulatory cycle though I don't usually get breast tenderness, not to this extent anyway. I don't think I had been ovulating properly for awhile. I had dryness down below earlier in the year, and it can be attributed to low oestrogen, everything seems back to "normal" now except for the ovulation timing. I did have sore nips/bbs with pregnancy last year but recall it wasn't anything like this bad, and only after about week 7.


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## Loll

Hello Little leb.. ouch your nips do sound very painful indeed, hope this is a good sign for you    Its strange how signs are not always signs and then sometimes they are, just to keep us all guessing    am wondering if it means egg did fertalize but then stopped dividing before implantation or even during implantation. Anyway until that bfp comes we wont ever know for sure    Would be nice to have a crystal ball at times lol. As you prob read i am now full of cold and dont feel too well and so am putting all symptoms down to cold/flu. We are due the dreaded af around the same time so would be wonderfull news for us both IF it was both our time   not sure about you but i wont be doing a test unless af is late and  am trying hard not to think anymore about any symptoms or signs i may or may not get! I have been re going over everything in my mind these last few days ...Why have i not fallen preggers when my bloods were all good always ovulated etc etc and other than i only have one good tube i just dont get it. Even when i did the ivf all eggs fertilized but  just has the doc said at the time "they just didnt take" and no reson for that!!!!! He even said for us to try again but DH didnt want too! So may be for me its all down to quality and they dont have the energy to last beyond the point of implantation and knowing my luck any good egg they maybe is coming from my right overy which is the damaged blocked tube!! I have even gone over the past 12 mths of af and other than the time i had a 30 day cycle (due to meds i was on at time) i always cycle 26 to 28 days and so all normal in that area also ovulated round day 12 to 13 so no short lutral phase to think of. Anyway i need to stop thinking about it all and wait to see if af arrives

Really hope you get your bfp and that your extream painful nips is a good sign
Please keep in touch as i would love to know how you get on between now and then x
Love Loll x


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## little lebowski

hi Loll  
will keep in touch, hope your cold/flu thing gets better soon. Not sure what to do, keep thinking the pain must mean something, but what exactly? 
just have to wait & see & hope its worth the discomfort, cos the soreness is driving me round the twist!!
 for all of us
xx


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## Loll

Littleleb try putting some very warm but not too hot clothes on them it might help x


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## little lebowski

LOL
ok will try that. 
Flipped out and did a test this afternoon - negative of course. Had a consolation cappucino after  

Been googling too much, found a page that says sore nipples/bbs can also be due to wildly fluctuating hormones - as in perimenopause. Slightly agog at that. Feeling abit silly now, given that same symptoms can mean different things depending on age/other factors. I'll most likely flip out again before end of cycle ... bear with me!


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## Loll

Littleleb. Dont you worry about flipin out, we all do that from time to time chick. shame it was a bfn but then you are on day 21 so prob too early to show bfp as yet. Hang on in there. As for me still feel like crap and no change other than i now have really bad back ache that started about an hour ago and i cant  get comfy lol what we like!!!


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## little lebowski

Loll
opened a bottle of Prosecco, feeling indulgent, maybe abit irresponsible? dunno how else to get through the next week except try to be normal. doesn't help that hubby is visiting friends new baby, i can't face it, he's off buying baby clothes - dunno how he can, makes me feel mad, never mind, i can blame the sore bbs/acute PMS ... bizarre but my bra just does not fit anymore, tried 2 this morning, neither feel right, so odd, feel like Dolly Parton, (34B so obviously not looking like her) all in the mind - maybe I'm a late developer ....


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## Loll

Haha Littleleb your sounding preggers to me        really hoping you are. I have started screating a little creamy/beige discharge still quiet moist so am wearing a pantyliner.  I can see the colour and its diffently creamy beige slightly sticky to the touch am going     my back ache as not eased off now then backache can be part of the cold/flu bug but not the discharge. Cant say if this is normal or not at this stage of my cycle. Well i am one day behind you and i think i prob ovulated around day 11 due to the cm at that time. So i have recalulated and 3 days to get to the womb and one day to implant would take me to day 15 which is when symptoms first started. How about you  i need to know at what stage you felt what. Am getting excited about your symptoms chick and alittle about my own but i dont want to think too hard about myself but its really hard not to x x


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## little lebowski

Loll
have PM-ed you. tuck up & get better of the sniffles soon.


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## MaisieCat

Goodness me - everyone seems to be having a weird month on here lately.

Krakiwi - Boy do I know how you feel re. life choices etc.  It wasn't my career that stopped us from trying - not sure what it was really - perhaps we were just enjoying life as a couple.  DH did (and still does I suppose) have a high pressure job working long hours, which really hasn't helped.  DH leaving house before 6 a.m. and not returning until 8 p.m. or later every day is hardly condusive to lots of BMS!  It didn't help that he also has a sleep disorder which wakes him in the night and leaves him very tired.  At least he isn't working quite such long hours now, but he still has at least a 12 hour day including his commute.  Not knowing how much you want something until you can't have it hits the nail right on the head for me.

To all of you with late AFs and/or weird symptoms - all you can do it try to relax and pretend it's not happening    (as if!).  I've had quite a few 'odd' months since my m/c at the end of last year and that's how I have tried to cope with them (of course I've achieved this better some months than others).  Ever since that short pregnancy I have had 'heavy' boobs or sore itchy nips at some point in every cycle - usually in the second half.  I wonder if that is a common thing?  

Anyway - better go - have to get ready to go out (and it's a "3 bar" day - I'm sure you all know what that means   ) so I'd better make sure I smell nice for later   .

Love & luck to you all
A-M
xx


----------



## little lebowski

triple luck to you Maisiecat.

xx


----------



## Loll

Maisiecat hope you had a rather eventfull night last night    

Littleleb Thinking about you chick   


Hoping to see some BFP's on this site before too long

  to all
Loll x


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## MaisieCat

Hehe Little Leb & Loll!  We were both out separately and very late so the deed had to wait until morning!  Gave me a darn good excuse for a long lie in though (don't want them swimmers having to defy gravity as well as swim against the tide eh!).  Hope we're not too late this month as it was the second of my 3 bar days and we hadn't got around to 'it' yet as DH had a couple of very long stressful days at work and was too knackered.  

Mind you, given the CBM 'lied' the month I had my IVF (it showed 3 bars and I know I hadn't ovulated yet because of the scans), we are working on the theory that we have to keep trying much later on in the cycle, so lets hope our theory will bear fruit eventually.  Keep postive eh?

Love & luck to you all.
A-M
xx


----------



## little lebowski

Hi Maisiecat
Fingers crossed for you this round then.  

All over for me this month, AF showed on Day 24, & I'm a 28 day cycle normally. Its been a very odd month. My chart pinpointed ovulation on Day 10, confirmed with OPK, and EWCM, this is really early for me. I had excruciatingly sore bbs & the worse PMS ever from Day 17-23, made me think this must be a "sign". Am now worried what this is all about. I know other people have had odd cycles since miscarriage and I have myself, but mine have never involved sore bbs or acute PMS, I just don't usually get PMS at all, I might feel abit flat and crappy the day before AF but nothing major. The odd cycles I've had involved irregular heavy bleeding/haemorrhaging.

Have to decide today (Day 2) whether to take the Clomid I was given back in April. I'm kinda worried about it cos I read its not so good for older women, thins the womb lining, and as my consultant pretty much threw it at me to get me out the door, I'm not being monitored in any way.


Bah humbug, I was hoping to be here with good news.
Best of luck to everyone else.xx


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## Loll

Maisie cat you made me laugh. Good luck this month x
Littleleb i have pm you. Maybe if you take the clomid but eat plenty of brazil nuts hot water bottle on the belly and lots of walks with your dog all this will help with the lining. I have never been offerd anything like that nor have i had has many tests has most ladys and somtimes wonder if any thing could of help me. I diff thing its a worth ago chick x


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## MaisieCat

Glad I made you laugh Loll.  You just have to be lighthearted when you can don't you?

LittleLeb - I have more Clomid as well and am not sure whether or not to take it next month.  One thing I will say though is that I have been given double the dose you have and it didn't thin my lining.  Of course everyone is different, just thought it might allay your fears a little.

I'm not being monitored on the Clomid either - and similar to you  - I was only really given it because I asked if there was anything else I could try given my clinic don't want to do more IVF for us.  I suppose at least because I did that one IVF cycle on it, I got monitored that month and know it delayed ovulation and did make me produce more follies.  Obviously, as I had the injectable drugs as well, I don't know if the Clomid alone would have made me produce more eggs than without it, but at least my lining was still OK.

Love & luck to all
A-M
xx


----------



## Krakiwi

Good Morning - sorry I didn't reply to some posts before. 

Sorry for all of you having a tough time this month. Its so hard to not react to the smallest symptom isn't it. It's like a little voice in my head that says "you know - that could mean you're preggers - I know every other month you've felt it it hasn't meant your pregnant but why couldn't it be different - just this month....blimey". Talk about driving yourself nuts...

Well I have visited both my Endo and Dr Asaad at London Fert Centre. Am I much further forward? - not really. I definitely have low AMH - I kind of knew that before I went if you know what I mean.

Dr Asaad was nice but straight to DE. I don't disagree with his advice (he's kind of giving me best shot option) but I'm not ready to give up on the chance of my own eggs yet. Have been in contact with Alison Taylor at Lister and going to try to get in to see her for a second consult. 

If anyone needs a great Endo - Pfr Pierre-Marc Bouloux - lovely guy....

Need some positive stories on here soon  - here's sending all of you lots of love and luck.

x


----------



## little lebowski

Krakiwi
My AMH was 9.7 in Feb 2010. When I didn't respond to IVF drugs in June 2010, I requested it to be tested again and it had dropped to less than 2. This meant I was on the wrong IVF protocol which had been designed for an AMH of over 9. Anyway despite the low AMH and wrong protocol I went on to have an IVF pregnancy, then a natural pregnancy though unfortunately both ended in miscarriage.

I had unusual symptoms (for me) last month, the excruciatingly sore bbs really had me going for awhile but then AF turned up early. I do feel something different was happening but am not sure how to interpret it.

*Maisiecat,* 
I decided to try the Clomid I was given back in April. Hate taking tablets of any kind, so took half a one the first night  what am I like!
Mine are hard round un-coated old fashioned tablets, the kind that refuse to go down so had to break them into pieces last night to get them down, and then afterwards read the leaflet that said not to do that  then all night felt my tongue was numb with an 'orrible taste. Yugh! Not sure how else to get them down, why oh why can't they be capsules? 
  for all of us


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## hopehopehope

little leb - good luck with the clomid ( i have 5 tablets in a cupboard somewhere as well!!)  Last time i took it I got really bad thrush, so take some pro biotics this month. The consultant refused to believe it had anything to do with the clomid, but i have NEVER had thrush so I know it was - it changed the ph balance of my    and let the thrush go mad (everything id reproducing except me!!) I then thought thre was no point in doing it again without Iui as if i had thrush it was obviously affecting cervical mucous - watch out for that and use some pre-seed if you have any thrushy symptoms - which of course I hope you dont!! xxxxxx


----------



## Krakiwi

I also had really bad repeated bouts of thrush when I did 3 months on clomid. Definitely do some pro-biotics.


----------



## Loll

Morning Ladies - Got my af this morning only light but still its all over for me this month. So strange i was quiet shocked when i wiped this morning   any way just goes to prove it was all wishfull thinking and i will not allow myself to do this to myself again   
Good luck to everyone
Love loll x


----------



## little lebowski

Loll    
PM-ed you.


----------



## little lebowski

Hope hope hope & Krakiwi
thanks, rushed out and got some probiotics. 
Not sure I'll be doing Clomid again though, think its making me abit batty. Up all night crying last night, came close to waking hubby up for a big barney - very unlike me, honest! I know I had acute PMS mid cycle last month but that is so unlike me too. Hope this is not a sign of changes to come ...!
positive vibes to all!
xx



Krakiwi said:


> I also had really bad repeated bouts of thrush when I did 3 months on clomid. Definitely do some pro-biotics.


----------



## Krakiwi

Sorry to hear that Loll. Fingers and toes crossed for everyone else. 

So here I am at 3am....that should tell you what my issue is. Was out at a big family celebration today, nipped to the loo and there it was all over again. Struggled through the rest of the day - couldn't wait to get to bed but had to get up just now as starting to sob - don't want to wake anyone. Just can't decide what to do now. Do you ladies have any clinic recommendations? Someone a little more sensitive to older, low amh ladies? Create? or Lister or I'm wondering should I do the Zita West path?. Anyway - I'm hoping none of you are awake too....


----------



## Loll

Aww Krakiwi     I used Mr Debono at Halifax for treatment and went to care Manchester for EC and ET. Mr Debono was very good with me no crap just stright to the point and put me on short protcol which worked well just a shame none stuck but the treatment was all over and done within 9days and i produced 7 eggs that all fertlized had 3 put back (none frozen). X
Hope x3 how you doing?
Maisecat how are you?
Littleleb-PM'ed you chick


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## hopehopehope

Hello my little internet friends!

I am so sorry about AF leading us all up the garden path so to speak. It is devastating. i have bought a load of cheap ovulation sticks that i can use every day till i ovulate. REalise that using the CB digital was putting me off carrying on after day 18 as they are so expensive (though cheaper now you can by them in a box of 30) My AF arrived on day 38 which was exactly 14 days after i had my second bout of EWCM - had i been testing i would have known i ovulated then and not put myself through all of this. So I am testing already, though no sign of anything on day 12. (this is the day i used to ovulate on till 3 months ago!) 
I have always had an ok FSH and a very high E2 (220) Since the last IVF in FEb I have taken Milk thisltle, not constantly, but maybe two months on a n=month off. I had my day 3 blood done in May and my FSH had gone up to 8.8 but e2 had come down to 129. I have just had them done again, FSH has gone to 9.4, but E2 is now under 100 - infact i didnt get the exact reading as it just came back form the lab with 'normal' on it. I know they like it to be below 60 for fertility, so might have to have it done again next time to get an exact reading. ANYWAY, my point is.........i think it is my lower E2 which is causing me to have a longer cycle as I seem to remember a doc telling me my cycle was shorter as the high E2 levels were stimulating my follies and causing the to mature more quickly. So, even thoguh this is bad news in terms of I cant try as often as i have much longer cycles, it must be good news as the eggs are now growing more slowly. Does anyone have any info on this?? I know that lower E2 combined with much higher FSH is a perimenopuase thang, BUT as mine has gone down and FSH only gone up a bit that must be good. i am sure that an FSH of 9.4 at age 43.5 is on the good side of normal. 

Enough of me!!!

Little Leb - how you getting on ?? I might try my last clomid pills next cycle. 

Loll - am so sorry you went on the rollercoaster again  - i know exactly how you feel - all i can say is I am on day 12 and now feeling better and more positive again. TYhis time last week i was ready to leave DH, now am trying to love him to death instead! I think as you actually got a pos opk then this must have been an anovulatory cycle and i have been told you can get a few of those a year and it is normal. Sending you love and best wishes xxx

Krakiwi - Lister - cannot recommend, went there twice, they got my meds wrong, you never see the docs. NO. Create - i was feeling hopeful about them, but they have just totally buggered up a min stimms cycle for a friend of mine and they triggered her too early. She is making a formal complaint. I have to say, I know it is a major hassle, but i would look into going to Serum in Athens. They also do a reasonable priced DE, so if you have to get to that point then at least you know them all. After seeing the consultant there, Peny, and having an aquascan of my womb to make sure no probs there,  she has given me steroids and folic acid and aspirin (after more tests) and told me to go off and try naturally for another 6 months (now probs sorted) after that she will do a totally unstimmed cycle with just the one egg, and after that its DE (my husband is currently saying no to that). I have never felt so looked after than there, almost to a point of crying. She says it doesnt matter what my tests say, i have 43 year old eggs and 80% of them will be chromosomally damaged.  
I also had iui at Manchester Fertility CLinic and cannot recomend them either. I know I ovulate VERY soon after my surge and they kept doing the iui 24 hours after my first morning surge. I have only ever got a bfp though trying before ovulation not after. But i guess it depends on the taddies. Also had 2 ICSIs at Reprofit in Czech - very well priced as a min stimms cycle. Definitaly recommend them as long as you have no other problems such as immunes.  Have you had NK cells checked? Hidden C?  Level 1 and 2 immunnes?. The NHS missed all my problems and it is only when Serum retested that we pickd up my rasied Nk (18%) and MTHFR and hidden Clamydia ( a month of anti biotics for me and DH). i havent even ask them what their success rates are as I dont think you can have a success rate as all patients different so you can only compare yourself to people with the same age and issues. 

At the moment I am trying naturally, i am coming to the end of two months on steroids and am due to stop them next week (I think the immunosuppresant effects last a while) I am taking aspirin and 5mg folic acid ongoing. I i get a natrual bfp they want me on a week of antibiotics and ant virals, back on steroids till 12 weeks, and to start clexane injections straight away. i went to tell my GP all this last week to make sure that if it happens i am not put through any stress trying to ogranise drugs. My GP wants it in writing from an NHS consultant, so am seeing him next week and hoping he will go along with it. He should do,  as the NHS dont even offer some of the tests I have had (though you can pay for them, so they must believe in it)

If you are definite about having another stimulated cycle, i got my best result from  a month on the pill, followed by 5 days gonal F then 5 days Menopur (10 eggs, 6 mature, as opposed to the 2/3 from menopur only), but it still didnt work. I had this at the Lister, but it was a protocol I came up with myself, not from them, so it could have been anywhere. I had 5 embies, so they put 3 back and we couldnt afford to take the other two to blast and freeze as their prices were so high. At Serum, Peny would have put all 5 back , knowing how low the chances wwere. I wish we hadnt gone to Lister and had gone to see Serum first. That was in Feb and I think she would have got me epregnant that time. The Lister also did EC too late TWICE with a firend of mine. They are ok if you are young, but not over 42. 

What a long post. hoep it was helpful!! Excuse the typos - I type as i think!!


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## Loll

HHHx3 Thanks hun you may be right about anovulatory cycle. Well i have decided to just leave things alone if and thats a big IF i get preggers then thats great but other than that am just going to go about normal life without thinking about it all...it drives me mad and at my age i do understand my chances are small but if its ment to be then wayhey but if not then they not alot i can do. Was thinkng about going back to see Mr Debono but then he will prob say "ifv" and hubby does not want to do that again. Nothing else as ever been mentioned to us, its been a case of reversal then ivf  a year after trying naturaly. No other drugs to help me conceive naturaly. I have tryed pre seed, reflexology, acupunture and eating the right food etc etc and nothing as helped so thats it for us. Just awaiting game that is more than likely something i wont win. 
Hope you have a better month hun. We could do with some lovely BFP's on this thread to give us all some hope
Loll x


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## little lebowski

Hi all
I'm out of action due to thrush - gah! can only think this is the Clomid, which seems to be doing its worst on me. So have been sitting here for past few days scoffing brazils & slurping raspberry leaf tea, yugh! (for uterine lining), taking cough syrup (for good CM), taking folic acid, taking Fertility Plus, Pre-seed on standby (don't think we'll be getting round to using that somehow!) - wondering if I've been wasting my time on Clomid.

P*ss*d off and away to open a bottle of wine ...
Good luck to everyone else!    
xx


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## Loll

Aww Little leb     am having a glass of red at this very moment x


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## hopehopehope

Little Leb - that is exactly what Clomid did to me - use the pessary/tablet combo BEFORE you ovulate  and the usual natural yoghurt. No sugar and reduce fruit. its horrid I know deffo use the preseed as you will be hostile in there! i dont think women should use it without IUI as it makes your vagina more acidic and kills the sperm. I too was at a point where we couldnt get funky as I was so sore.


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## Loll

Hi Ladies

Just wanted to say good luck to all you waitng to test and send lots of     out to you all
Love Loll x


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## hopehopehope

Thanks loll- will contact you when I get my bfp ( prob with de
Hopefully next feb xxxx


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## Loll

Hope x3 - are you ok? Can i ask where abouts you are on your cycle? I am on day 13 which is not far behind Little leb who is day 17. Surly its about time we got some BFP's on this site   

Maisie cat and Krakiwi how are you both doing? x

Little leb pm'ed you hun x

Its gone quiet on here think we need to get it re-booted lol

Am a little dwn to day so wont say too much about me but i will post very soon

Love Loll x


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## little lebowski

How's everyone?

Hey Loll
On Day 18 of my first Clomid cycle now. TTC Days 13, 15, 16. Had positive   on OPK on Day 14,  which for me is back to my usual cycle, so last month must have been something odd happened like early ovulation? 

Like I said not sure I will try the Clomid again, though its a  low dose, have had extreme mood swings and irritability and funny head.   Honest, I'm not usually up and down like a yo-yo so am putting it down to Clomid.  Also had some painful twinges and it felt painful walking about, like a cow with big udders ( bizarre I know) which I had with the IVF drugs and which I hope are signs of something happening down there re: follicles. Also had mild cramping on & off from Day 16-17. 

Hope hope hope
got rid of the thrush but you are right must be the Clomid, thats abit of a bummer it does that. 

Well, hope all is ok with everyone,
good luck everyone
xx


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## Loll

Hi Little Leb - sent you a personal before i read this post so now i know your syptoms lol.  Funny though has i said in the pm i sent i had aches that hurt when i walked ... spooky we both felt that!! lets hope its a good sign we both ovulated   x


----------



## Krakiwi

Hello - sorry to have been so quiet...been a hectic wee while. Started a new job this week (after 4 months not working) so at least that stress is over. Hoping everyone is ok and sending huge amounts of positivity your way.
Not much news from me. Have gone on a little campaign to cleanse myself - completely given up all alcohol and taking different preg vits and Omega 3. Have also used a bit of preseed here and there to help things along .
Interestingly - this month (I'm on CD15) according to my CBFM I am only high - no peak yet. Thats quite late for me so I'm left wondering what its all about. Poor hubby is worn out and I'm getting a little frantic waiting to see the results each morning. As if I didn't have enuff to worry about 
Have an appointment to see Alison Taylor at the Lister week after next so am trying not to think too much about those 'next steps'until I get there. Its nice when you can actually forget about it for a while - pretend its all ok if you know what I mean and that this month just might be my natural month.
Anyway - wishing all you the very best of luck and baby dust......................x


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## MaisieCat

Hi ladies,

I have been staying away because I really needed to stop thinking about all this for a bit (or at least try to).

Sorry you're having such a crappy time on Clomid Littleleb.  Isn't it funny how it can affect some people so badly and others not at all.  I had a huge dose of 4 tablets at day 2 months in a row and my CM was fine - no thrush - no mood swings - nothing!  Weird!  The only thing it did was extend my cycle by about a week - and everyone knows what happens then   .

I still have a months worth sitting here (20 tabs) but am not sure whether to bother - or maybe just take a lower dose (but that might be pointless I suppose).  We are almost getting to the same stage as Loll - you know 'what will be will be'.  Neither of us are comfortable going for DE, so that's it as far as IVF is concerned I think - spending thousands just to increase chances by a couple of % for just that one month seems daft when we can have 12/13 'goes' a year for free!

I'm still taking the Pregnacare conception though - and I did buy some Evening Primrose Oil and Hemp Oil capsules after reading angelbumps 'protocol', but found I just couldn't swallow them (if only I'd realised they'd be 'horse-tablets'!).  I even tried cutting the EPO capsules open and mixing it into Orange Juice, but that nearly make me puke!  So if anyone wants to give them a try ...

HHH - Re CBM and Ov sticks - I'm not sure I trust them anymore (although I am still using the CBM at the moment).  Not sure if I've mentioned this before, but when I had my IVF cycle using Clomid, I carried on with the CBM and it told me I'd ovulated way (about a week) before I had any follies big enough to 'go' according to the scans.  I told my consultant and he said that if your FSH is high, it can affect the results of ov tests somehow - something about it detecting a high level as a surge when it isn't a 'surge' as such.  So, we are not relying on the CBM results anymore.  I mean this month I had 1 bar days 6 & 7, 2 bars day 8 and then WHAM - 3 bars days 9 and 10 (today).  I just don't think that can be right given I had produced no sizeable follies at all by day 12 of the IVF cycle.
Mind you, today I have had exactly the feeling that one of you described as ' a cow with full udders' - a very odd 'full' feeling right down low on both sides of the groin area - so maybe that is a sign of big follies down there?  Oh crikey - there I go again - waffling on - sorry!  Now you know why I needed a break from this - I just spend hours on here waffling away and getting nothing done   .

I'm going to shut up now and go hang the washing out!

Love and luck to all
A-M
xxx


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## Loll

Hi all hope your all well 

Maisiecat - i totaly understand where your coming from, ttc certainly takes over your life and (for me) ends in disapointment month after month. I am making this my last month of ttc, well if ya can call it that, i stopped with all the meds and healthy eating and monitoring months ago but last cycle brought symptoms i have not had before although still ended with a bfn. It did awaken my feelings to try again. My dh does not know any of this and so he is not aware that we manged   on day 9,11 and 13 and as (in the past) always ovulated day 12 we could be in for a chance. The strange thing for me this cycle is i had little ewcm and not the usual stuff that slips when ya wipe (sorry for tmi) but i did have watery discharge for a few days over the times we had   and managed to use a little preseed day 13 without my hubby noticing lol   I also had pains on the evening of the 12 low dwn and to one side which also that hurt when i walked, so was that me ovulating well who knows! i think even if i was then it does not mean my eggie would be fertlized or that if it was it would divide and grow and bury its self in   and develpe into a lovely healthy little baby, but we live in hope and thats what life is about so dont be to down on youself chick it does happen for some so why not us   Saying that i have decided that at my age i will diffently be keeping away from days 10 to 13 in the future just so i dont have that "what if" feeling. But will still come on ff from time to time to see how you lovely ladies are all doing   I am today day 19 of this cycle and no symptoms since what i think may of been ovulation pain, my boobs had been a little tender yesterday but that could be the progestrone rising as it peaks day 21 but they seem less tender today!

At the end of the day if its ment to be then it will be, but (not wanting to sound too negative) only the indivdual can decide when enough is enough and for me it will be.

As always   to all and   we get the BFP we all long for 
Loll x


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## hopehopehope

Hey ladies! Great to see this thread hasn't stopped!
Am writing on my phone so will make it quick. I am on day29 
And haven't ovulated . Maisie, I use cb smiley face digi sticks, not the monitor.
To double check this month I have also used cheeky per sticks and...... Nothing. 
Had sternum bit of ewcm about day 16 but it didn't come to anything.
Saw the consultant at my local nhs hospital last Wednesday,  he said the jump in 
My cycles from 26 to 38+ days is because eggs are bad and sent me off with leaflets about living without children.
Am having bad times with dh again. He's now saying we are too old
To have kids ( he'll try anything not to change) 
Let's see what happens, next month might go back to normal, but
have given up hope with my eggs now as I cant try with dh away all week
When I have no idea when I am  ovulating. 

Will write more when am at computer
Lots of love Maisie, loll  , little Leb and everyone xxx


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## little lebowski

hopehopehope    
good to hear from you.
x


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## Loll

Hope x 3 read the thread on the over 40s site...any one got pg over 45 natuly there is some positive stories on it and might help lift your sprits.  my dh is also away from home during week x


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## Loll

Hi girls
Just an update, i did a test on saturday afternoon (day24) and got the faintest of faint lines using a predictor pregnancy hpt. Did one again Monday afternoon using another predictor and the line still very faint but slightly more visable ( you can see the pink in the line so cant be evapration line because they have no colour in them. Anyway Monday afternoon i also used a first responce that was negative. This morning tested again (day 27) and got a very faint line again with the predictor but another negative with first responce. Apprantley first responce can detect hcg levels of 25 but the predictor can detect levels as low as 12 and half.
I am asuming that after 3 tests using predictor that they cant all be faulty and because there is the faintest pink line then some hcg must of been picked up but not enough to show up on first responce. Is my due day tomorrow (day2. I am thinking its most prob a chem preg due to the predictor results that are so faint but slighty more visable on each one.

Just wanted to know if any one experised anything like this? and also to say dont use the predictor it drives you insane









Good luck to all ttc

Loll x

I am not holding out much hope but have decided that if af does not arrive tomorrow then i wont test again until Thursday and use a clear blue hpt


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## hopehopehope

Oh loll, I so hope this is good news for you. Fingers crossed . Did af start?? If not I hope 
You have gone to get bloods done? Let me know xxx


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## Loll

Hi Hopex3 Thank you for asking x
I did 2x tests today 1 clear blue digtel and the other another predictor. Clear blue negative the predictor a stronger more visable PINK line but still faint for my liking. No af arrived so dont know what to think other than wait and see if af arrives in next day or two before retesting. Phoned the predictor help line number and was told that it doesnt matter how faint the line is has long has the line is pink then it is a positive. Am thinking it will be a chem preg though   

Started loosing pink discharge this evening not a lot but some   think af is certainly on her way   

Done yet another predictor this evening also and again faint positive but the line is pink and clear enough to see. Must be a chem preg


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## Loll

Hi girls 
Just a update... Did predictor hpt this morning... positive line, but the bleeding has worsend during the day. Went to see my gp he said most likly early miscarrage and phoned the early pregnancy dept at the hospital, they said i need to phone them if i get pains and or heavy bleeding. But if am miscarrying then thier is nothing they can do. At the moment i dont have heavy bleeding and also no pains just slight headache from the worrie! I know its all over for us and as i am typing i am starting to have slight cramps.   
On a positive note the gp was very nice and said even if i miss (which iam) then at least it shows i have managed to conceive and suggested maybe i use baby asprin after this month. He also said he would do by bloods day 3 and 21 and see how things in that area are doing. Also he mentioned a test regarding any blood clot issues they maybe to rule that out! Only thing is he said he wouldnt do them yet and i had to come back and see him after my next period in Nov so the tests would be Dec. He said because am just over 4 weeks no need to scan but at 5+ he would of sent me for one
I did say after this month then we would stop ttc altogether so not sure if i should bother having bloods done other than am curious because these have not been done since 2010.
I feel really down more than i thought i would   

Thank you to all who sent pm's   but if you dont mind i wont sending any back at moment as am feeling like s**t

Thanks again for all pm's

Loll x


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## Loll

Hi all

Good god it as gone quite on here. Hope everyone is ok   

just to let you know after still geting positve hpt i finaly got my negative result today. Bit down but can now except it was a chem preg and stop worring

 to all

Loll x


----------



## fragele

well I have done this and will try again  nearly 42 have has 2 failed IVF am going to now swap supplements to Marilyn Glenville  and see what happends acupunture I find relaxs me I think.

xxx


----------



## hopehopehope

fRagele - i havent a clue who marian glenville is  - but good luck!!

Hello to all my other ladies out there!!! No news from me, as usual.


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## marianne2

Hi-
Good luck with your journey. All I would say is don't rule out donor eggs. I have a beautiful boy from IVF with my eggs and after 3 more ivfs and 2 miscarriages with my eggs (including one round at the ARGC), I took a leap of faith and went for donor eggs and was lucky enough to have a beautiful baby girl. I love them both more than life itself, and don't know how I could have ever got through the rest of my life without my daughter. I know it took a lot to get my head around it, but it seems so simple and natural now. Part of me wishes I had saved myself the grief I went through and went straight for donor eggs, but I had to take the journey I did before I was ready.


Good luck with any decision you take. I just thought I would share my experience with you.


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## dyellowcar

Hi ladies

I've not posted on here before, but after 2 BFNs via IVF we had immune tests and found I had High NK cells. Our cons is happy for us to try naturally for the next 3 months, (I had intralipd infusion 2 weeks ago and have a 3 month window). Our cons believe there is a good chance it could happen naturally and thinks the only reason for our BFNs is my immune, anyhoo, I ramble!

I just wanted to pick someone's brain about ovulation. I'm currently testing everyday using a digital predictor test. So far it's been negative. My cycle is usually 26 days long and by my working out ovulation should be today or tomorrow. However, last month my cycle was 30 days. I tend to go 3 months at 26 and then 1 at 30.

My questions are,
a) how long during a cycle do you keep testing?
b) is it possible to already have ovulated this month?

The reason I ask the 2nd is that on day 8 of this cycle I had pain in my right side (near my ovary) and EWCM. Also on day 10, when I started using the ovulation tests, there was a very faint 2nd blue line on the pee stick when I took it out of the digital reader.

Maybe I'm just getting my knickers in a twist but any advice would be appreciated.

Di X


----------



## wanting baby

Hello 
I hope you dont mind me joining your posts. as you can see by my history we haev been through the mill. Iam 40 now, 41 in January and although we have only had 3 IVF attempts i said i woudl never be able to go through it again as it was too painfull and nearly broke me. i began to accept that i would just have to live a life without a family. 
More recently i have had those feelings again and have become more depressed with Christmas coming up x  my dilemma is that we cannot afford anymore IVF treatments as DH as a daughter aged 16 from a previously relationship we have had to fund all 3 treatments ourself. I have used up 3 months on Clomid so wont be perscribed that again .... 
As u can see our only route is to try naturally which without trying to sound negitive  is such a long shot. So my question is this............ what do i do ?? has anyone any sucess stories that could give me a boost ... ive been off of this rollrcoaster for so long its hard to know how to get back on.

I am sorry to bombard you with probably a load of negitive thoughts... sorry ..........

Wantinga baby
xxx


----------



## dyellowcar

Wanting Baby - just a thought but have you had any immune investigations? Like you my son is older ( at university) and I never expected to be in this situation, but after trying naturally for 3 and half years and 2 BFNs via IVF, I had my immunes tested. This has shown high levels of NK cells which basically treat an embie like a cancer cell and kill it before it has chance to implant. My cons explained that even after one successful PG the NK cells can develop. At a high enough level they also destroy the eggs before they can be fertilised.
It is only a suggestion and does cost ( £1000ish for the tests and another £400 for the treatment).
However it has highlighted this problem in my case and also in a number of over 40s ladies. It's worth looking into as my cons is happy for me and DH to try naturally as he thinks we have a good chance at success. FX


----------



## little lebowski

Hello ladies  
Haven't been here on the boards for awhile, thought I'd venture back on & see how's everyone doing?

I am on Day 35 of my cycle, No AF. 2 BFNs. (usually have a 28-30 day cycle).  
Am kind of hoping AF will show cos I don't know what this might mean. Don't want to go to to my doc incase he just says its my age.  
Not really ready for that conversation yet.

All the best to everyone out there.


----------



## Kezz

Hello ladies 

Mind if I join you?

After our recent failed ICSI we are TTC naturally (no more money for IVF!)

We'll be having a follow up with our consultant in the new year - just wondered if there's anything you'd suggest I should ask about.

At the moment, I'm thinking of asking about IUI (although not sure we can fund that either!) and Clomid. 

Looked briefly into herbs but found the whole thing overwhelming so will try Pregnacare, going teatotal, eating healthily, moderate exercise and plenty of you know what!

Good luck to everyone 
Kezz xxx


----------



## E-v-a

Hopehopehope
Is there a chance that your DH will change his mind, maybe he has to get used to the idea. I know a woman who split up with her partner and went for DE on her own. I guess if DH really doesn't want to try DE, it comes down to what is the most important to you, DH or a good chance to have a baby through DE.

Dyellowcar
Seems to me your ovulation was around CD10, otherwise there could not have been a second line. Is very common, so better start on CD8 with testing.


----------



## hopehopehope

Hi  Kez, and thanks EVa - i cant leave husband, he is scared, leaving him will make him more so. I think he would just find someone else who already had kids or doesnt want them. I would be cutting off nose to spite face, especially if DE didnt work. DH works in london, so if we split up it is not as though we would see each other casually. I either have to wait for him to change his mind or go behind his back and do it using his stored sperm and never tell him - im not a good lier though!

Dye - did you read my post to you on  other thread about spotting and anovulatory cycles?


----------



## Blade Runner

Hello all, I hope you dont mind me dropping in.

As you can see from my profile summary below, I've been through IVF 3 times due to my previous partners low sperm motility. After splitting up with him and progressing steadily through my ealry 40's I thought that there would be little hope of becoming pregnant. I then met my current partner who went through a vasectomy reversal in May last year. I didn't want to go through IVF again and we just tried naturally, thinking that if it happened, it happened but not holding out too much hope. I took Pregnacare conception and DHEA just to try and up the odds a little, but not with any regularity, as I really didn't believe that it was going to happen.

It was my 44th birthday yesterday, and I got a    . I know there's a long way to go yet, but at least this proves that there's life in us old gurls yet!!     Just pray that little embie sticks around    .

Just goes to show, you should never give up


----------



## little lebowski

Hi Bladerunner
How fab! thanks for dropping in and cheering us up -   hope all goes well for you   .. What is DHEA?


----------



## Treaco

Hi Girls I'm looking to join you all, I'm 41 and DH is 41 and we have a wee boy from FET who is now 5, we are trying naturally just now for number 2 but if it doesn't happen will prob look at doing IVF later on in the year.  We have been diagnosed as unexplained so hoping it will happen for us.


Hope 2012 is a good year for you all.xx


----------



## L-J

Hey ladies,


Thought I would say Hello!!


Blade runner - many congratulations!!!!


I am 42, and 13 weeks pregnant with a natural BFP...... more proof that it can be done!  


I also have a 2 year old daughter also conceived naturally...... that makes it sound like I never had fertility problems, but if you check out my profile you will see a history of heartache..... I was finally told I had 0% chance of a natural OR IVF pregnancy, that DE was the only way to go - then a natural BFP in 2008!  See, sometimes the Docs don't know everything, and us oldies can defy the odds........


Good luck and baby dust to those all trying naturally (or with assistance too).  Keep positive......


L-J x


----------



## little lebowski

L-J. Congratulations & thank you thank you, so nice to hear some success stories.  
Hope all goes well.


----------



## Kezz

Congratulations!!!!  Bladerunner and L-J - lovely to hear some success stories.

We're hoping for a natural miracle. I'm taking Pregnacare and have ordered some Royal Jelly and Bee Pollen in honey which I've heard good things about - so we shall see! xxx


----------



## Blade Runner

Thanks all 

Little Lebowski - DHEA is a hormone that has been seen to have positive effects on the success of IVF txs. As everything there's nothing conclusive, but due to my age I decided to give it a go. If you google it, there's lots of info out there including this site http://www.dhea-info.co.uk/

Hope that helps
BR x x

/links


----------



## Googlegirl

Hi again Ladies - I was on this post about a year ago after three miscarriages and now getting back on my feet after the fifth! I am 42 now and still going for it - great to hear that there are a few glimmers of hope amongst us though. It really is a torturous journey though.

Hopehopehope I was really struck by your predicament as it reminded me of my own a bit and I still ponder the horrors of what I went through when faced with the same sort of decision. I think lots of us get to that horrible dilemma point about our closest relationships as it is very hard to stay in the same place with the pain of infertility.

This is my wee story but it is in no way a dose of advice about what anyone should do as other people may have done the opposite to me and it has worked out for the best. Sometimes it just helps to hear about how other people handled a similar predicament and what things they had to consider.

I ended up leaving my husband two years ago as we were on different wavelengths when it came to having kids. I married him knowing that we would struggle to have kids (with him having had a vasectomy) but I married him anyway as I loved him so much and was not at the broody stage yet. I honestly thought that love would conquer all. When the broodiness got too much we tried IVF but it didn;t work. I struggled to get back on my feet after that but our relationship was in a different place. I realised that he was happy with life the way it was, did not really want to explore further options but that I still had a fair way to go on the fertility path. I started to resent the fact that it was him who gently ruled the roost on that front - he was the one who had the vasectomy but he did little to meet me half way in getting round that. He was 'supportive' of my desires to have a family but did not have the same enthusiasm. He was not up for donor eggs or adoption and was quick to point out the downsides until I lost my own energy for it.

Eventually I just snapped inside and realised that someone else was dictating and influencing a hugely important aspect of my life. The truth was this - no matter how much we loved each other and were meant to be with each other - if we were unable to share or follow the same dreams and goals to some extent then one of us would have ended up resenting the other and the marriage would not have survived. Leaving him was the hardest thing I have ever done and it broke both of our hearts - I suffered terribly from depression and anxiety afterwards and was crippled with self doubt for a long time.... still am some days!

Some folks might think that I left him so I could have a baby with someone else but what woman would do that at 40!? I knew I might still have a wee window left and of course I wanted to use it if I could. But mainly I left him because I knew our marriage would not survive the next few years. He would have happily accepted that there would be no children and been ticking along as normal but i would have been watching each day go by knowing that it was another day going past that I was doing nothing about the remaining options and the screaming voice inside me wanting a family of my own. Our relationship would have been on different paths and I could not see how we could get past that.

If my hubby and I had felt the same way about family, but we truly had no options left, then I would have been sad about that but the marriage would maybe have been fine. I would have been happier knowing that we had both shared our infertility journey and that we had both seen it out to the end no matter the outcome. My problem was that we never did share the infertility journey and he wanted off the road long before I did. I still had options that I wanted to pursue but he did not. I knew in my heart that the reason I was not pursuing my dream of having a family is because I had put his needs and desires before my own. My desire to pursue something amazing was being dampened by someone else's fears and negative opinions - the madness of it all became very stark. Only when I started to veiw myself as an individual with my own hopes and dreams and biological clock, and not as the other half of an increasingly unequal relationship, did I start to realise that it's OK to go it alone.

My husband was kinda having the final say in all of this but he was terrified when I left. Having said that he did then see me in a different light too - as someone who had her own dreams to be followed rather than solely his partner. After I left, he would gladly have taken me back even if I had gone off and had a baby with someone else in the meantime!! It was a mad time really - instead of me having to face all the decisions and dilemmas, my husband had to revisit all his firm views on donor eggs and adoption and they were very different once I was gone!. In the event none of that mattered as I was too far down the road by then but it did show me that if I had challenged him earlier with my departure then he would have had to face his own demons just like I had. Maybe we would have got back onto the same level in time to give things another go.

I think when faced with this kind of dilemma we need to picture ourselves ten years down the line in all the different situations we might find ourselves as a result of following or not following our hearts. Which ones can we live with? Even if our dreams do not work out are we better to have not gone there in the first place or will we settle more happily knowing that we gave it our all?

I sometimes think that women are programmed to feel guilty for wanting something and for being prepared to see it through to the end. We feel selfish for not being grateful for what we have and for not putting love and relationships first. In fact, the desire to have children is probably the strongest emotion we will ever have - how can we not follow it? None of us ask to face such difficulties in having children and we should not feel guilty about needing to throw so much more energy into it than other people do. It's not our fault and we should be giving ourselves a pat on the back for being brave enough to keep facing the trials and tribulations of it all.

I'm purely talking about my own situation here but I think lots of us get to a similar place when suffering infertility - it's horrible to face such dilemmas about our closest relationships. For my part I don;t now regret leaving my hubby but it's taken me a long time to forgive myself and to see that I was not being selfish - I just wanted the most natural thing in the world, I wanted to be with someone who wanted it like I did and I wanted to do whatever I could to make it happen. After feeling like a speck of sh*t for a long time I now feel happier knowing that I did what was right for me.

Two years on, not only do I feel happier but my ex husband also feels happier that I did what was right for me - this is a really important point that I did not expect and that is that he no longer needs to feel guilty for trying to hold onto me but holding me back at the same time. In leaving him I actually released us both from the torture and let us both get on with our lives. We are still the best of friends. I had enormous support from friends and family who got me through a very difficult year but every one of them (and they all thought the world of my husband as well) thought I had done the right thing.

As it happened I did meet someone else and amazingly I managed to get pregnant five times at the age of 41 and 42 but none of them have worked out. Maybe it won;t work for me but the real lesson for me has been about how I feel knowing that I am being true to myself. My friends can't understand how I can still be so cheery after a very painful marriage break up, the highs and lows of a new relationship and 5 miscarriages when I want a baby so badly. The reason for that is that I am actively following my heart - I am with someone who truly wants the same things out of life as I do, I am throwing energy at options that were still open to me but which my husband did not, in the beginning, wish to follow. I am having no fechin luck whatsoever mind you but in some ways that doesn't matter. It just feels better, and liberating, to be doing something about it than to feel like my wings have been clipped and that I am being prevented from following the most natural urge in the world.

To be honest - the best thing I did and I would strongly recommend this to anyone who has not already tried - was to see a fertility counsellor. She was AMAZING and it was so much easier to raise really difficult questions with her - 'fertility counselor' is the wrong word as it all boils down to how you are dealing with the process as an individual or a couple. All the things that I wanted to say to my husband but just couldn't - well she just asked and probed away at him. She saw us together and she saw us separately until she really understood where we were. She really made us both think about what was important in life and that we had to be honest with ourselves about what we wanted and be aware of when we were making compromises that did not feel right. My husband did not really want to go and when he did go he said he was there 'to help me' and that it was 'me' who was upset at not having kids. That tiny comment actually showed me that he very much viewed the unachieved desire to have children as 'my problem' and that it was something that 'I' not 'us' needed help with. That being the case I decided that 'I' was going to do something about it!

I am certainly not suggesting that anyone packs their bags when the path starts to fork a bit but the old 'how will I feel in ten years time' exercise is always a good one for torturing ourselves with - I almost demented myself into an early grave with it! We also need to be honest with ourselves about whether we are putting other people's needs before our own on a matter which will give rise to enormous resentment at some point. Are we being typical women and trying to protect our partners from upset but giving ourselves huge distress as a result?

I'm just reading this back to myself and I sound like a self righteous tw*t! Don't mean to be! There is nothing so bloody irritating as someone who says _'hey I took that brave move and I made it to the other end, I strode on out of there girfriends with my over flowing confidence and my flicked hair - I am a survivor_!' Soooooooooo - if I sound all at peace with myself and all smug at my 'empowered' state then fear not - I am still a mess some days and think that I might be a little crazy. I am still regularly found, locked in the toilet cubicle at work for hours on end crying, shrieking out my car window at someone who beeped their horn at me and curled up on the stairs bawling my eyes out and clutching an empty bottle of wine lamenting all the pain and loss and misery from my divorce, miscarriages and general unfairness of life - I still do ALL of these things - and more - I just don;t do it quite as often as I used to!

If I knew how to use that babydust sprinkle thing I would use it but I don't so here is some verbal babydust to you all instead of the verbal diarhhoea that I have just written!!

Googlegirl xxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Aspi

Hi ladies! 

Hope you don't mind me dropping in! Read some of your post which are very interesting to me. Just had one round of ICSI i embie transferred but BFN (on NHS) - now into the "paying mode" as my DP had  vasectomy, and after much soul searching (I had told him from beginning of relationship I wanted kids) - he had to face his demons (his ex left him with his two kids) he admitted he didn't want any more - I said I would give him time, but I would leave him if it wasn't resolved. I took him to see my private gynocologist  who had seen me for fibroids, he managed to put it MUCH better to him than me...without getting emotional...lol I quietly (which was so hard!) sat in the car all the way back, half hour into journey he said if we can get a free NHS go we could go for ICSI - we did and the above result - whether it be to cost or having to have sperm aspirated (!) he then suggested that if it did not work he would have a reversal (I think cost and all the time off work he had had to take! lol) I still had to have a couple of emotional ourbursts after the ICSI as he has no concept of time, and he does say that ultimately he is doing this for me - at least he is telling me the truth, right? I would like us to be on the same page and really want it together etc, however I do hope that he will change when it comes into fruition, and sometimes I do catch him talking to people in a positive manner about it. I have no issue about leaving and I think he knows this, even though I don't want to, I wont let the relationship go bad as I have been in too many of those and survived on my own.  
He is having consultation on Monday and hopefully will be booked in before the end of the month / beginning of feb. 
I also want to take fertility drugs alongside this as having to wait three months and then TTC naturally would I think be a further drawn out wait?

Bladerunner- congratulations!!! brilliant news of hope! Can I ask you how long your partner had had his vasectomy for before the reversal? Had he had kids prior? Sorry, just so interested to talk to someone in my position! I will look into DHEA - did you ever think of taking / being put on other fertility drugs?

Hopehopehope - I completely empathise with you - I too was thinking of going (somehow?!) down that route if DP didn't agree as his sperm is still frozen! I know I too would be broken, I think GoogleGirl puts it very well and maybe if you saw a fertility counsellor it may help you both? Like I said seeing and speaking to someone who can take the "emotion" out of it and put the case to a man is somehow better for them as I think when we put it too them we get emotional and that frustrates them and they can't listen or disect the information properly, in order to come to "their own" decision. As I said to DP the decision you make will ultimately affect the course of our relationship in some way, I can live with my decisions and I will choose whether I will live with yours.......if we try together and you try for me that would mean a helluva lot more than not trying at all.

Bladerunner - I see you had fibroids and ICSI like me! And my birthday was on the 15th January - your BFP DATE! HUGE BUBBLES OF JOY TO YOU!

Interested to see what information and comments you ladies have!

Aspirational xx


----------



## sosad

Hi everyone!

Will have a read through when I have some time, just joining this thread, have given myself until I am 42 in June to stop TTC - am on day 21 today but not really holding out any hope for this cycle, so will be starting all over in a weeks time!

Sosad


----------



## Blade Runner

Sosad - why, what happens at 42??!

Aspirational - we're twins separated by a few years then as my birthday is also on the 15th Jan!! 
My DP had his vasectomy for about 5 years. He had two girls who his evil witch ex has turned against him, accusing him of domestic violence, child abuse and trying to abduct them!!! All lies of course!! Anyway, his reversal was VERY successful, 3 months after the op his count was 70 million with over 50% motility!!   And 6 months after the op, even with my old eggs I'm 5 weeks pregnant   

I found ICSI very rough and on my third round I reacted badly to the drugs. That's why, when DP and I decided to try for a family of our own, I just took Pregnacare preconception, DHEA and used preseed lube to give his super swimmers the best chance and to help my body produce healthy eggs. I didn't want to go down the IVF or donor egg route due to my previous experiences so we just relaxed and took the attitude that if it happened it was all good and if it didn't we'd carry on travelling, diving, skiing and motor biking!! As it was, it was the skiing that did the trick - brought back extra luggage!!   It's also much more fun than IVF


----------



## dyellowcar

EVA - thanks for your advice, I did test from day 6 on both previous cycles but nothing, then this month, a positive ovulation test on day 11! Yay!

Hope x 3 - yes sweetie, I did read your post, got a bit waylaid in the meantime, sorry. Anyway seem to be back on track this cycle and had a smiley face on day 11. How are things with you? 

FX that BMS has worked for us this time, I'm trying not to get too worked up, but it does seem to be on my mind all the time! We'll see what happens in the next few weeks.

Love to all
Di


----------



## MaisieCat

Hi all,
Some of you might remember me from a while back.  We have just had a consult at a different clinic (Feretility for Life in London) and have come away with a revised plan and renewed enthusiasm, so I thought I'd come back & join you lot again.

I've summarised it in my profile, but a better explanation is that he told us that my AMH (1.01 last June) is quite normal for my age, but it does not mean that IVF won't work, although we have to be realistic about our chances.  He seemed sceptical about the approach taken for our last IVF (using Clomid originally, but followed up with Menopur/Supracur) and said that it does not mean to say that a more conventional approach would not produce a few viable eggs.  He has suggested I take DHEA, which he says can help to slow down the loss of my remaining eggs (I hadn't realised that some are 'lost' every month in addition to any that actually get released at ovulation, but apparently this can help to stop that happening).  Also, I am to use a Cyclogest pessary every day after ovulation for 14 days, and then do a HPT (unless AF arrives first, but it shouldn't as the progesterone should stop it).  If I get a BFP, I'm to continue the Cyclogest for 12 weeks ad if not, I'm to stop it and only start again at next ovulation.

We are to try this for 3 cycles and, if we need it, he'll fit us in for an IVF cycle after that.

It is SO good to have a plan as we had been 'drifting' rather, not wanting to give up, but not sure what to do.

I'm sorry, but I haven't had time to catch up on all of your stories, but I am sure I'll pick them up as I go along and hopefully be able to re-acquaint myself with some old 'cyber-friends'.

Love & luck to you all

A-M
xx


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## mag108

hey everyone.
I know some of you from other threads. Am 18wks preg, nat. At 42, one blocked tube, several miscarriages, 4 failed ivfs (2DE), low amh, immune problems, just starting adoption process...it was an amazing surprise. After a very nervewrecking 12wks each week I get a bit more optimistic it all goes ok. 


Just wanted to say hi. Feeling a little 'old" but my body has decided now is the time!


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## L-J

Wow Mag108 - many congratulations on your BFP!!


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## hopehopehope

Hi ladies!!! Just want4d to say hellooo!! i am still here, 44 last week  - boo hoo - still TTC natuarally. Not even a late AF since I started trying seriously three years ago.  Sending all my love and best wishes xxx


----------



## mag108

LJ: thank u! It is a total miracle  .  Maybe I can get some top tips from you about being an 'older mum', bit nervous about that one!


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## Blade Runner

I'm afraid it's all over for me. I started miscarrying my twins last night 

Wishing you all the very best of luck. Maybe this was just a trial run for me and I'll have better luck next time. Anyway, take care all x x x


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## MaisieCat

Just came back on for a quick catch up only to see your sad news Bladerunner.

I know painfully well how it feels to have that magical natural BFP sntached away from you at an early stage - and my thoughts are with you   

A-M
xx


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## mag108

so sorry to hear your news bladerunner. very sad. Take good care.x


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## hopehopehope

Bladerunner xx my thoughts are with you, i only hope you dont lose them both honey , there is still a chance xxx


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## L-J

So sorry Bladerunner xxx


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## heavenly

Bladerunner - very sorry.  xx


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## Googlegirl

Big Hugs to you Bladerunner   - don't lose hope.  It's such an empty feeling when it's all over but there is no reason why it will not happen again.  Hopefully you will get your spirits up again soon and you can put some love and energy back into it!  I so feel for you though as I have been through similar recently and I was absolutely rooting for you.  Still am!!!!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## BECKY7

Hey google girl  I have read that you have lot of BFP but MC in the end  are you not taking anything for it or to find out why this keep happening etc.
Becky7 xx


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## Googlegirl

Hi Becky - I know it is so frustrating!   I had lots of blood tests after the third miscarriage a year ago but they all came back fine.  I've then had a fourth and fifth pregnancy after that and on both occasions they have tested the pregnancy tissue but they were also fine - ie no choromosome abnormalities with the baby.  I am fit and healthy, don't smoke, don't drink much.  I have asked about progesterone, aspirin etc but the consultant said that if he were to give me something it would only be to make me feel better at the thought of 'taking something!'.  His view was that there was nothing apparently wrong and nothing that they could do other than encourage me to keep trying.  He said if he was a betting man then he would reckon my chances of success were just as good as my chances of failure.  

It's so hard knowing whether you are getting the right advice or not.  If I was ten years younger I would at least have more time to get to the bottom of it and find a solution!  I am trying not to panic about time ticking away    but I do have this horrible feeling that I am missing something and by the time I find out what it is I will be too late.  Eeeeeeeeeeeeek!  The time it is taking to get pregnant again after miscarriages is getting longer now and I reckon I am shrivelling up in there as we speak.  I've tried acupuncture, yoga and - god help me - a bottle of fertility oil bought from a white witch who said that clutching and stroking an oiled up pink candle (has to be pink apparently) at 7pm on a Friday night would draw the right energy to me.  Believe me it is not a good look (think about it!) -but hey - it can't do any harm!!   PS - then you have to light the candle and visualise the birth (for those who want to try it).

Aha!!  Now I see where you all get that baby dust doodah tool thing - cool! 

 

To everyone on the board and thanks for your wee post Becky!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## BECKY7

Hey google girl  I cant belive your GP  sorry that is load of rubbish  have you tried having immune testing level 1 with your GP as it free to find out if your having any any immune problem  or you can either go to penny in serum in Greece and she will guide you for free what to do and maybe do immune testing  Nothing to lose  as I belive if you are pregnant then your pregnant but something got in the way  who know.
Hope you will get the answer your looking for.
Becky 7 xx


----------



## Googlegirl

Hi Becky - I think the immune testing was part of the blood tests I had a year ago.  It said my anticardiolipin antibodies were normal as was the lupus anticoagulant.  Is the antibody testing the one they do for immune issues?  They did so many tests I assumed that they would cover all the obvious ones.  The consultant went back through my file in November and just shook his head at the mystery.  I am hoping that something as obvious as immune testing would have been done - have just moved house so about to look for a new GP - worried about that too - I remember moving house a few years ago and when I asked my new doc about fertility she suggested that I get a puppy!  WTF!!  I will probably try changing my GP and see if I get any further.

I have to confess that I have been too terrified to start running around trying to see other specialists as I think I will get myself in a terrible state and be all panicky about trying to do it all in such a short window.  I am trying not to see myself as a middle aged, desperate failure who has got into this predicament by not following my heart earlier.  I am keeping quite calm with it all and hoping that it will happen again naturally.  It is a horrible feeling to think that there is probably someone out there who can help but I just don't know where to start the search and, with turning 43 soon, I know I would quickly be consumed by obsession about it all and lose sight of the other things that are starting to make me feel happy again.

I'm going to look into the Penny option though so thanks for that!  It can't do any harm to get some more advice and maybe I should risk my sanity on a more concerted crusade - and advice from a woman would be good as well !! - most of my docs have been male and the two female ones were a disgrace to the sisterhood!!

Cheers Becky and Hi to everyone else!!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## BECKY7

Oh google girl  I know what your saying as I did feel that way too about thinking too much about immune etc  and to forget to start living  but penny really wanted to help load of women  and I am surprise your GP hadn't given you any low dose of steriod.
Just email penny and she will give you advice as age is just number.
Becky7 xx


----------



## hopehopehope

Ella, I assume when you've had your bfps that they checked you progesterone was high enough??

FYI, I have never met an nhs doctor or consultant who would do 
Immune testing. It's always been private. I was tested as positive for 
A blood clotting gene at serum, when I mentioned this to nhs consultant he
Said ' oh they are inventing new things all the time, just ignore it'!! 
Don't expect to get immunes tested on nhs that same as you would if you went to dr Gorgy etc.
See agates thread on immunes.


----------



## Googlegirl

Hi Ladies - really appreciate the info about immune testing from Ella and Hopehopehope.  I am seeing a new doc tomorrow so I am going to ask all about it.  If there is so much as a mention about 'getting a puppy instead' I will erupt.  Ella you get the babydust thing by clicking 'more' just under the smiley faces and symbols and you will see lots of other symbols that are not immediately visible.  The babydust thingy is in there!! 

I've resorted to ovulation kits now and I swore I would never go down that road!  I thought the surge only lasted one day but last two months I have had a positive line for 3 -4 days in a row - my partner has not been complaining though as it has hardly been worth him getting dressed during those spells!!    Have any other girls used these and demented yourself with them?

Big hugs to everyone

Googlegirl


----------



## Googlegirl

Sorry - meant to thank Becky as well for the advice about immune testing!!


----------



## Jammy J

Morning all, I just read this article in my local paper and thought it would be helpful to share.

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/9565476.Our_miracle_baby_____thanks_to_The_Argus/

xx

/links


----------



## Oceana

Ella. 
Agate has an immunes facts sheet on the tests for immune issues in the immunes section of this site. Also if you google search Dr Beer you will find info on immune testing. With your history of m/c it may be worth looking into. 
Also have you had a hystoscopy done to see if you have any polyps, or scar tissue etc?
Also a number of women with miscarriages get the hidden c tests done if you look in the Greece section often there is info there on it


----------



## Oceana

Hi
I don't think the lap dye test would identify all issues a hysterscopy is where they put a camera in and have a look. Until I had that done they had never identified I had a polyp. Through Serum in Greece they can  do a number of tests including the hidden c and others that the results could indicate if you have scar tissue the thread has info on sending samples to them . Also if you have had a d& c with any m/c s that can also leave scar tissue.


----------



## lovekaz

hi i am new to this i have had 6 courses of clomid and got 2 eggs on a 50mg dose which looked good and after no results i went back to see the DR who said may as well try IVF and i had AMH tests done and today i went back to see hm and he said my results are low under 1 and how he explained it to me was we may not have any more success with IVF than naturally i may only get about two eggs wih IVF and did not want to waste my money i was totally gutted i am 4 in a couple of days can any one give me advise i dont no what to do


----------



## hopehopehope

Lovekaz- how old are you?? An amh of less than one 
Is about average for someone who is 44 or so. Age is a better  indicator
, my sis in law has a lower amh than me yet has just got bfp
Naturally as she is only 35. 
Dont panic!! Up date your profile signature info so we can help you better
Xxx


----------



## BECKY7

Hi Ella  that happen to me without CBM as when I get wet it either come the min my cycle finish or a week later and my next cycle after that either come early or later so I am guessing every month my cycles is different since I got older  and I was told to do it either every other day or every 2 day as the sperm last from 3-5 day so every 2 day still good enough  But I am waiting for my CBM to come and waiting for my cycle to come properly this week then I will start trying using CBM .
Let hope it work this time for you and how you feeling apart from exhausted lol.
Becky7 xx


----------



## BECKY7

Oh I am so confused with my CBM  as I just come on an hour ago and I was told to press the 'm' button the following morning if I come on in the day time  it that right if so what time do I do the test as it did say 1st thing in the morning but I have to do it within 3 hour after I start press the 'm' button  so tomorrow morning when I get up I will press the 'm' button and every morning daily I will switch on till day 6 and again in 3 hour after to do the test and do it daily till I finish. Am I right ?
Really hope you will get pregnant this month and when it your test and bet your DH is exciting.
Becky7 xx


----------



## BECKY7

Ha ha  that what I have been doing reading load of time to really understand  so maybe it easier if I set m for 9am then I will test it at 12pm  but what I like to know is do I wee at 12pm to test it or do I wee at 1st time I get up in the morning and put it in the cup and test it at 12pm once I press m at 9am as I don't work so I usual get up about 8.30am.
Thank you to explain the best you can for me.
Becky7 xx


----------



## BECKY7

Ah I think I got you now as normally my 1st pee is around 7am  so do I test it 1st after my 1st pee before I press m at 9am  sorry to be a pain in the bum lol.
Becky7 xx


----------



## jacknjill

hey there i too am new to this thread and am very happ  y to find you all


----------



## jacknjill

to say i feel sooo different just realising that i am truly not the only grown up mummy going through this journey, my story is similar to many of you girls with just varying differences . up until i was 38 i thought i was done having bubbas as my 2 girls were 17 and 15 and i was remarried to a ,who really didnt want to have children until 1 day he seemed to become adamant that we must have a baby!!!!!! i couldnt beleive it, i agreed and was totally ignorant about what would happen next. 7 months later bfp naturally amazing we were stoked we had a scan looked gorgeous, until the nxt ultrasound no heartbeat, we were sooo shocked and sooo sad i actually said the words oh no that wouldnt happen to me!!!! boy was i wrong coz it did and it happened again and again! after various types of miscarriages we looked into things with the fert specialists and they suggest the usual, loose weight, get fitter, try clomiphine and baby aspirin, and lrts do iui as i was now 40!! eeekk that crept up fast, any way easier said than done inbetween all this i needed to have a hip replacement for congenital reasons and arthritis tricky to get fit and slim when you can hardly move! in the meantime i became obsessed about havin a bubba, sao did hubby just aswell since he got this ball rolling aye!! 4 months after hip surgery we went for first failed iui then on to the sercond failed iui, aagghh was getting trricky to stay positive, but baboom third time lucky bfp, yay right? nope i was consummed by anxiety and fear about losing another angel i was blinkn miserable and still found something evryday to be concerned about up until birth, not fair on any of us but i couldnt help it and stole the joy from my hubby all because i felt sooo scared and didnt really have anybody to talk to who had an understanding bcoz im sure thats all it would of taken to help me relax about things. the pregnancy was actually ok, apart from gestational diabetes requiring insulin injections 4 times a day, and of corse my new neurotic personality!! we had a girl  she was fine, but evry ultrasound evry doc appntmnt i was convinced sumthng was going to be wrong, the point is i suppose is, when you want sumthng sooo badly it can consume evrythng and then when it does happen we forget about the joy it was suppose to bring, so we can find ourselves asking is it worth it all the heartache the effort the time and worry? well it is!!!! so ladies dont give up and try hard to stay strong and positive and dont let fear get you !!! p.s i like the person that ive become since going through this as i feel i am not ignorant anymore and i have compassion and empathy and understanding for any woman going through any type of fertility issues or losing a promised child baby dust to you all xxxx


----------



## jacknjill

hehehe, amongst my massive rave above , i somehow forgot to mention we are ttc another bubba naturally! i couldnt face the drugs or the timing pressure again but am happy to see how thngs pan out on our lonesome, probably not a bad way to start of, we will see how that goes. ww dont really have the finances to go down too many paths here either anyway, fert treatment in new zealand not too reasonable really bit of a shame, public funding very tight and limited i tghink i fal l out of every criteria lol! , a question for somebody who could help is, i am taking metmorfin to help keep diabetes at bay 1500 m a day, and am feeling different in my ovaries around ovulation time is that connected? as i see some of you ladies mention it on here re pcos am i correct?


----------



## IwillKeepTrying

Ella - your sig says "TTC Naturally using cb fertility monitor/pre seed/vitamins/diet/acupuncture & other holistic treatments."

Can you please explain what you're doing ATM with these? 

What is "cb fertility monitor: and "pre seed"

Thanks, Alex


----------



## BECKY7

Hi iwillkeeptrying  I am too on CBM is clearblue monitor  it tell you when you peak for 2 day for you to conceive  and I got my 1st smiley so BD for 3 day starting tonight. And pre seed is to help the sperm swim up. And vits is folic acid etc.  What are you doing to try to conceive.

Becky7 xx


----------



## IwillKeepTrying

Hi Becky,

I use a similar monitor as ClearBlue. 

Actually one question I have for all the ladies here is: do you think using a pee test only once a day is ok?  I felt I might be missing something and thought I may need to check more than once.

Maybe I'm not using it correctly.  Or maybe I don't ovulate currently. 

Another question is when to BD: our RE said to do the BD only every-other day, not every day.  That may be because he was thinking about sperm potency.  

Becky - what are you using for pre-seed?

For me in TTC now, I'm on supplements for the first time in my life: DHEA 75gm, CoQ10, Vit C, Vit E, Fish oil, and soon, Royal Jelly.  DH takes his vits as well.  I have always had a great diet of vegetables and fish so the vits for me will probably be a bit of a shock to my system. 

Once the DHEA does its thing, we will TTCN and if that doesn't work, consider yet another IUI or IVF.  But this has already become very expensive.  Sorry, am preaching to choir....

Thank you,
Alex


----------



## BECKY7

Iwillkeeptrying  I use the stick every morning when the CBM tell me to  as once I finish my cycle we bd then 2 day later we bd then I had high 2 day later we bd then high but we had day of then high we bd then 2 day of peak we bd then high we had day off ever since  so we did lot of bd every few day till we got high and peak.
I am not using per seed as I do get wet when I ovualate but one women don't get any ewuh or cm or wet then they will take per seed for during high and peak when the bd to help the sperm swim along with it.
As for vit  it will take 3 month to effect  so as long you have been taking folic acid.
Becky 7 xx


----------



## babygirlforme

hi becky, how are you 

good luck to all


----------



## BECKY7

Hey babygirlforme  I am fine thank you  I am 10dpo  and have had few sign recently  lower back ache  mild dull cramp  feel like got a cold coming everyday  and today hoping it implanation bleed as had tiny brown discharge then 1 pence light pink  and now feeling nausea after cup of tea  so I am so hoping my sweetie are snuggling so hard for us and so hope my DP will be nice as he been nasty and now he want his mate to stay over tonight  and he knew I had a bleed so don't really want anyone here  aghhhhhhhhhhhh men.

How about you  how you feeling .

Becky7 xx


----------



## Googlegirl

Hi ladies - hope you are all OK!  I have also been dementing myself with ovulation sticks and I promised never to go down that road!  The pre seed is also on the go and it is good for a laugh if nothing else!  Our last ovulation indicator lasted three days but my DH was away with work so I had to go stay with him in some dreadful Travelodge! Nice!  
Does anyone get terrible cramps for a whole week before their period.  This has started up last two periods and I have never had it before - very painful and persistent for 6 - 7 days before period even starts.  I don't know if my body is still hormone crazy after the series of miscarriages.  I have convinced myself that I have rugby ball sized fibriods, pelvic inflammatory disease etc - going to surf the internet to see if I can find anything else to add to my list of ailments.  It doesn't take long before one can convince oneself into an early grave after reading a few websites.  I have self diagnosed myself with an impressive list of terrible diseases over the last year.  I'm never one to over react!  Off to Rome at the weekend though so maybe some wishes and blessings will help - I will send one over the airwaves for the thread! 
Does anyone else sit and weep uncontrollably over 'One Born Every Minute'?  I sat and sobbed the whole way through it tonight - at any point I could just have turned it over but I could not help but watch   !  
Anyway - big hugs to all and WAAAY TO GOOO babygirlforme!!  That is just what we need to see!!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Googlegirl

PS Becky that sounds promising so I am keeping my fingers crossed for you!!


----------



## quisty

Hi Tess 

I'm In the same boat I had my 2nd miscarriage 3 wks ago. We went to a clinic for our 1st appointment last week and i was told had about 5% chance as well. My FSH level is 38.2.... It is a really hard thing to deal with. We ar considering donor etc but we haven't got anywhere near the funds to do it so don't really know what to do. A have a family member who has offered to be a donor but sadly it comes down to money. I now live in Madrid and she's in London. I don't know anyone else in this situation. We are still trying naturally but i'm worries about running out of time like you must be. Never thought I'd be in this situation. I'm 1of 8 all the same parents. I had always assumed i'd have about 6 children it never occurred to me that this might happen.

Anyway anytime you want to chat I'll be here. I really do wish you a lot of luck. Sarah


----------



## quisty

Hi ladies

Just a quick question i'm 43 and ttc naturally. Can anyone take DHEA? All i do at the moment is take folic acid. My Fsh level is really high 38.2 but i did conceive last month though sadly lost it at 4 wks. I live in Spain but my Spanish isn't great so don't know where to turn to over here. I'm back in London next week so plan to buy a lot of vits etc and maybe an ovulation kit. Though my cycle is anywhere from 30-40 days....

Any help would be appreciated as i feel really alone over here in my quest for knowledge.


----------



## BECKY7

Hi quisty  I am sorry to hear about your loss last month and that your having a hard time in spain with no one to talk to.
Have you tried CBM .
I take sanatogen with omega3 , royal jelly ,maca ,zinc , coq10 but stop that at O to test ,  but next month if this month doesn't work I will take 1000 vit c.

Hi google girl  I am 13dpo and still have brown scant when wipe(sorry)  so that 3 day of brown wipe but only 1 brown wipe a day  so doesn't sound good eh as still very tired  mild cramp now but not backache and feel like  I got a cold coming everyday since O so my immune doesn't sound good eh and I on really know what to do with my immune apart from start taking vit c 1000  Aghhhhhhhhhhh got my test on Sunday and not looking forward to it lol. How are you and how your sweetie doing.

Hi babygirlforme  how are you.

Becky7 xx


----------



## quisty

HI Becky thank you

No I haven't tried CBM I think I'll get one when I get back to UK. Do you know anything about DHEA I've just read that it can help slow down the loss of eggs. Do you know if anyone can take it?

I hope things turn out well for you


----------



## BECKY7

Yes quisty  I have heard about DHEA as some women recommend and some women say it make no different so I thought I give it ago and well I couldn't sleep  it give me a rash on the back of my head  load of spot  so I stop after a week as I needed my sleep and my hair back lol.
Becky7 xx


----------



## IwillKeepTrying

Oh Becky....... 

I'm on my 2nd week of DHEA, I do notice some minor acne and a little bit of hair loss, which worries me even though from all I've read this is a known side effect. I'm keeping a close eye on it.  

If the hair loss gets bad, I will have to make a decision, but I know the DHEA route will take at least 3 months.  I guess it's a small price to pay for what more women than not say has worked for them when nothing else did.

Quisty - I'm taking 75mg DHEA, CoQ10, Omega 3, 1000mg Vit C, 400iu Vit E, Royal Jelly, Folic Acid and Bee Pollen.  So sorry about your loss. Plus am doing acupuncture at a TCM clinic.

Like you it's a knowledge quest, I'm learning as I go, reading as much as I can, and am relying on the good ladies in these forums for advice and their experiences.

Alexis


----------



## babygirlforme

Hi ladies, nausea kills me nonstop  nice to see becky you are fine , googlegirl-you can,you are still young  , sorry to read about other lady's loss 

Good luck


----------



## BECKY7

Hey google girl and babygirlforme I meant the other way round with you 2 in my last post and babygirlforme how your sweetie and sorry to hear about your nausea  not nice it is but I was told it good to feel nausea as it meant your sweetie are healthly lol.
Becky7 xx


----------



## babygirlforme

Hi+40 ladies   , hi BECKY, nice to hear from you  , what you'll do when you'll see bfp ? 
On the one hand I know nausea can be a good sign, but it kills me and I felt the same with my first preg at 41y, which ended at 37 w with stillbirth of my babygirl, so I am not sure if nausea is so good.
Do you know if baby aspirin is recommended, I do not take it, but I am considering... 

Good luck


----------



## quisty

Hi Becky and Iwillkeeptrying

Thanks for the info on DHEA hmmm I will do more research I really will try anything at this stage. We're coming to London so I'm thinking about trying a clinic there not sure which and whether I'll even get an appointment at such short notice lets see. I'm taking a huge suitcase so i can stock up on my vits. Over here if you decide to go down the donor route by law it has to be an anonymous I have a family member who's offered so if I have to I think I'd rather go down that route, though still not decided. 

Keep me posted ladies


----------



## BECKY7

Hey babygirlforme  I am sorry to hear about your loss of your daughter at 37 week  so I guess being nausea all the way is not good too as I would av thought it would stop at 12 week.
As for baby aspirin I have been taking during my ICSI  and still doesn't make any different as for my next try I will start thinking about baby aspirin an cough med and pre seed not that I need pre seed.

Hi quisty  good luck and hope you will get what your looking for.

Becky7 xx


----------



## babygirlforme

Hi BECKY,thank you for reply, I HOPE YOU ARE FINE . Nothing is sure, like babyaspirin, some nice ladies wrote that they took b.asp. after 12 w, some doc recommend it, others don't...  nausea still kills me  ... 
Best wishes to all


----------



## jdm4tth3ws

hi bizi5,
sorry to butt in, but when u say u used cyclogest on a natueal cycle, did u get it via  prescription from gp or was it left over feom previous tx. I have some left from previous tx & ive been taking aspirin, as was wondering is,it safe for me to use cyclogest uo. only have 14 left, so been thinkin about usin 1 every other day. will it help, or wi l it give a false positive reading? woyld be gratefyl, if tou could help me with this. thanks
sorry to have butted in 

jade
xx


----------



## quisty

Hi all

I was just wondering if anyone else has read and implemented the changes talked about in Inconceivable or fertile female by Julia Indichova? I've just finished reading it and feel really excited about it? Has anyone signed up for the phone conferences Julia does or have you been to any of her workshops? Also has anyone tried here CDs etc? 

Its such a tough journey we're all on but so worth it. I hope all you ladies are doing ok. I'm about to try a Chinese doctor so lets see what he has to say...
take care.

wishing you lots of luck and joy x


----------



## IwillKeepTrying

hi quisty,

I have not heard of that but thanks for mentioning it, I will check into it.

Let me know if you want to swap TCM stories, I'm pretty well into weekly Chinese herb and acupuncture therapy. 

Best of luck to you and all of us.

Alex


----------



## hopehopehope

Jade, cyclogest - use from a few days after ovulation till test date ( if your luteul phase is 12 days test on 12, if 16 test on 16) stop taking cyclo if test negative, it will delay af a few days , won't give false neg or pos, won't harm you. Xxx


----------



## quisty

Hi Alex How are you?

Well i went to see a Chinese Doc but that's a no go for me as she wanted to see me every week and she's in London and i'm in Madrid. I didn't really feel that she asked me enough questions and she asked nothing about my eating habits really so.... However I went to see a Nutritionist in London and that was a completely different experience. Before seeing her i had to fill in a 5pg questionnaire that went through a lot of things. She explained that the issues I have with my digestion and sleep play a massive problem with my health and thus my hormones. The 1st things she said i have to sort out was my gut and my sleep problems. I wake up about every 1.1/2 through the night. She explained that it meant that my melatonin levels were too low and melatonin directly effects the production of hormones in particular Thyroxine. So I'm going to implement her recommendations and lets see what happens. Fingers crossed. Ohh while I remember she also recommend a book called getting pregnant faster by marilyn glenvile PHD. I haven't got it yet but I ordered it I'll let you know what it's like i think the author also does workshop type things in London. Take care x


----------



## IwillKeepTrying

Hi Quisty.

Same here - my doctor says for TCM to work I need to do it at least once a week (herbs and acupuncture), and even wanted me to come twice a week, but once a week is SGD $100-$130 and even that gets too expensive.

Key to things like TCM is that they are not overnight solutions, they recommend at least a 3-month course before expecting results.  I've read that from numerous sources and heard it as well.

I do trust this doctor enough to feel she is not just trying to drum up more business, but none of this is covered by insurance.

Maybe you could do the herbs and get a 1-month supply.  At this point I'm not so sure any of this works, or if the herbs are better than acupuncture, or if one is ok without the other. But we will keep trying......

Hope you and the other ladies are well.

Alex


----------



## lease

Hi Everyone
I am new to here and just wanted some advice really.
WE have been trying to conceive for over 4 years,i am now 41 and have had 3 miscarriages,one at 12 weeks,one at 9 weeks and the last at 6 weeks.
I am under Dr Steer in Kent UK,i have had laparscopy,hysteroscopy and tubes flushed.I had a bicornuate uterus which has now been reshaped and i was told this could be the  reason for miscarriages....it wasn't.I went on to have a miscarriage after the op.Husbands sperm count is normal,so are all my bloods.Dr Steer suggested that a go for natural killer cells blood test has he thought that could be the reason....he was right! My killer cells are highly elevated and double what they should be so i will never be able to have a baby without medication,thank god they found the reason! Now my only problem is getting pregnant,i have just had 3 months on tamoxifen which made me produce 2 eggs each cycle but no pregnancy.I have my final  NHS app with Dr on wednesday then we have to go private.I am wondering if anyone has any advice about my next step,either iui or IVF ? and has anyone had any success with Dr Steer with IUI or IVF?
Also had acupuncture for the last 12 months but sadly stopped now due to the cost
Any advice would be great

xxxx


----------



## quisty

Hi lease

I'm so sorry to hear about your losses I know how tough it is. I've just been to a nutritionist and she recommend a book  called getting pregnant faster by DR Marilyn Glenville. It's been really interesting full of info I believe the author also does workshops in London. Also don't know if it's the same or similar thing but my niece I believe has the same thing as you and she is now 3 months pregnant. Her blood group is different to the babies. she has to have scans every 2 weeks  and i think injections.... Sorry I can't offer much else in ways of experience and advise. 

I wish you lots of success.


----------



## hopehopehope

Lease - if you have recent pregnancies I would go for iui, over forty eggs can be damaged by
Ivf drugs, what immune drugs are you going to be on??


----------



## lease

Thanks for your advise ,i have been to see my consultant and i have now finished with the nhs.I am seeing him privately from now on.
We go to see him in 2 weeks,he is going to do fsh test to see if my eggs are in good condition and how long i will be able to conceive.
Also looking into donor eggs although i am not sure if i can go down that path.I need to get results from test before we make any decisions.
my last pregnancy was april 2011.I just want something to work! All my friends seem to be able to pop them out like peas ....
I will be on steroids and progesterone for natural killer cells but have told told this creates another complication with ivf.
If my eggs are good then i am going to take tamoxifen for another 2 months on a higher dose then consider IVF.
Dr has said that iui depends on both tubes functioning properly and there is a question mark over one of mine,it was in spasm at time of op
and he couldn't tell if it was ok 
Thanks again and good luck to you both too
xxx


----------



## RachelMaria

Hello Ladies

I wonder whether someone might be able to help me?  I have just had my one and only shot at IVF due to cost, which has resulted in a missed miscarriage.  I know at my age that the chances of success naturally might be somewhat limited, but it is (I think) the only course of action left open to me.  One thing I have not been given is a test to see if my tubes are blocked and I am going back to my local GP on Friday to see if I can get this done on the NHS.

Is there anything else I should be asking to be tested for whilst I am there?

My plan is to leave things to fate if I find out there is no physical issue, and I will obviously seriously look at my weight, diet etc etc as well as alternative therapies - is there anything else I should be considering?

Thanks for any advise you might have.

Rachel


----------



## quisty

Hi Rachel

Sorry to hear it that Ivf didn't work out for you. I don't really have much to offer as I'm in the same boat The only tests I've had done is a few blood tests as like you we just don't have the Money. I was recommended a book by my nutritionist called getting pregnant faster. The woman who wrote it is a Dr and I believe she does workshops in the UK. I haven't been to any as I live in Madrid and we have nothing as far as I know like that here. Get your body as healthy as you can( i'm still struggling with this one as I'm really over weight) And if you can go see a good nutritionist. I was having lots of carrot Juice and porridge in the morning and she said I had to stop as she suspected my blood sugar levels were all over the place. Plus she told me about the effects my poor sleeping patterns would be  having on my system especially my hormones.

Hope this helps a little. I'm sure the other ladies will give you  lots more advise. x


----------



## babynumber

Hello ladies

Just wanted to say hi   

I have secondary infertility/am no longer ovulating despite still having regular periods. 

Ive had about 7 rounds of Clomid in the past year with no success.  So I will be TTC naturally now.
I still have some Clomid left, and I may well use it again in a few months or so - but from what I understand you shouldnt take it more than 6 months or is it 12 months?  Im not sure! 

Anyway, for me, I found the only major disadvantage was it dried up my CM.  So I feel this may have hindered chances.  I did make me ovulate most times, although sometimes not!  Overall, no success.

Does anyone know of ANY other medication available from the GP when Clomid has been tried, any next steps?  (Other than IVF/injectables privately - because this is not an option for me due to no funds).

I'm pretty sure the only option is TTC naturally.


----------



## BECKY7

hiya  have u thought about iii in abroad as it so much cheaper then in Uk.
becky7 xx


----------



## RachelMaria

Hi Quisty

Thanks so much for coming back to me and having read your signature I am so sorry that you have had to endure this twice xxxxx

I think what worries me the most is all of the statistics and horror stories for ladies over a certain age that I have been reading.  It just makes me feel that I have left it too late, although in reality I didn't really have an option having met DP late in life - is there really are life plans up there somewhere why do they have to make it so hard!!!

Anyway, I downloaded a e-book yesterday about improving fertility over 40 so will be researching like made over the weekend - will let you know if I find anything interesting.  I do remember having a thyroid test as it can affect things - are you able to get any treatment etc for this to help in your baby quest?  Love Rachel xxx


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## quisty

Hi Rahel

Maybe  try reading a mixture of the good and bad stories lol. For reason it reminds me of when i watch horror movies (which I don't like) I turn the sound of and normally have to pause it long enough for me to relax, why do i bother?? I always have to follow up with something nice. I can't get any treatment other than a few blood test everything we have to pay for and we're hard up so... I hope mother nature and a change of diet and a few supplements (which at the moment I can buy either) will do the trick. 

I heard that in the UK they're thinking of increasing the age of help on the NHS to 42 so maybe there is something more that can be done for you? Alsp as other people have mentioned other countries can be much cheaper. Sadly even though i still have a doc in london I'm too old now. Man it's such pain in the butt being this age sometimes but... If you're interested I can send you the details of the nutritionist i saw in london? She has a lot of experience in this area. It's hard to know what to do for the best when your counting the pennies. 

I'm a really optimistic person so as far as possible i remain happy though disappointed with my body. I think mental attitude really effects us a lot. When I was having the last miscarriage i was in so much pain I could hardly stand it and i have quite a high pain thresh hold. At one point i thought wow this is too much I'm likely to break my partners hand in a minute lol. I suddenly remembered my mum saying to me years ago about mind over matter- I gave it a go I just focused on my breath and nothing else. It's so weird but it really worked the pain literately vanished until my my partner disturb my thought and it came back. I was able to do it for most of the night. Anyway to cut along story short the reason i'm telling you this is: It occured to me that night the mind really is very powerful and it effects us in ways we don't know. If i was able to switch off the pain maybe I it can help me to achieve what i want?? I don't know? I'm not really into new age stuff etc but because of what happened I'm really trying just to be more aware of my mind and body (not sure if i should make the carrot cake i was thinking about though hahaha).

Well I think i better finish there is this is likely to turn into a novel. Let me know how the book is. Oh yeah think i've had hot flushes again for the 2nd time in 6 months hmm it's worrying. i know i need to get fitter and loose lots of weight but I keep stalling which is weird as i like exercising. Monday I start walking an 1hr a day and forget about the excuses.Have a good wkend. take care Sarah x


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## rungirl

Hi Quisty,


I didn't want to read and run, but it was really interesting what you were saying about mind over matter/pain!  And i tend to agree, i am also very optimistic person and try to stay positive even though nature have been very cruel to me fives times.  My dh and i took 6 months off after our last miscarriage and have now started to try naturally again, and its so hard to be back on the roller coater and getting negative cycles.


I think some where deep down is sort of telling me don't get pregnant as you will just miscarry like the previous pregnancies....it feels like i need to be re-programmed.


There is some "new age" stuff called EFT - where you tap certain parts of your body 6 times and chant the certain words to overcome the negative energy, and at the end you say "i truly deeply love and and accept myself" over and over again for 5 minutes twice a day.  I tried it on Wednesday for the first time and i was nearly in tears when i started, saying about the loses etc, but after the 5 mins i felt very calm and like something had lifted.


Re: blood tests, after my miscarriages  i had a full blood count and i was anemic and also very low in vitamin d.  i also have my level 2 thyroid  - had to go private (£100) but it did show that T4 was low, GP wasn't concerned but i've since tweeked my diet and also take idoine and it now back to normal.  Hope this helps.


Sorry, didn't mean to jump in, but i'm 42 and ttc naturally so thought i'd say Hi Xxxxxx


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## quisty

Hey Rungirl

No need for sorry as it's great to be connected with other people. I'm sorry to hear that you've lost 5 that must be really tough. When i lost my last at 4wks I was of course devastated though somewhere in me i expected it. I later found out that a girl I had spoken to some 9 months previous had lost hers the same week as me except she was 8 1/2 months , so i guess i was the lucky one. The same happened to my niece. No matter how we look at it this is hard. If you're in quick sand and you struggle it pulls you don't if you stop and except and survey the situation you'll find another way out.  I don't know if I'll ever be able to have a baby I hope i do(I did want 6 but think i've missed that one hmmm), but i still want my life to be full and i don't want to be left broken and empty.

I am 1 of 8 children I'm the youngest  and I had always assumed motherhood was a natural given for me, I was wrong! Even if we manage to have a child we would love to adopt.  Sadly it seems we can't do that either. I can't adopt from the UK as I haven't lived there for more than 5yrs you have to be there a min of 1yr. Nor can we from Spain as the last we heard they don't really do it but only guardianship. Nor from places like China as you have to have a certain amount of money ie own your own home etc which we don't. So it looks like cahrity work is on the cards which would be rewarding in a different way.

EfT i will have a look at it as i think it's great to release all the pain. I took myself on a guided meditation a few weeks ago just to see what it was like. I ended up in tears, it was great lol. I really felt relieved and energised.

I'm going to have more bloods done soon I hope. I have no idea about my T4 as i think they just did a generalised test before. I bought one of those ovulation monitor things but i've yet to use it. This month my hormones are up the swanee so have no idea when to test. Some how i think it's just better to just have sex when you feel it i don't know but maybe that's when your body is ready??' I have no idea. 

I'm sure you know this but I didn't that it takes three months for eggs to prepare to be released so in turn you need to be preparing 3 months a head of time. I've stopped drinking nearly 3 months now so i hope it helps.  I really need to loose weight though I just seemed to be blocked mentally. I guess cos food is a comfort. i don't eat processed food and only whole grains but i spend 8 hrs a day on the comp so i just don't burn calories. it's time to start walking and cycling again.

Ok off now have a good wkend everyone. x


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## RachelMaria

Hi Quisty and Rungirl

I would like to find the person that said life begins at 40 and either bash them over the head or introduce them to the fertility web sites that indicate otherwise in terms of what we are trying to do.

I really do believe in mind over matter, the problem is how do you get yourself on the positive side of things when you feel negative?  Everyone keeps telling me to have faith so I will try!  My nan (who is 85 in July) called my dad and asked him to pass a family story onto me that she thought would help - she had an Aunty who was a really smiley and happy lady - she was married for 25 years and was desparate to have children, but it didn't seem to happen for her - all of her relatives, sisters, cousins etc who were of a similar age kept getting pregnant - despite all this she had a lively life and hisband and always kept smiling etc - she got pregnant in her 40's and had two kids with a 15 month gap - so my grandmas advice was keep smiling and keep shagging (I think she said keep making love bit my dad wasn't so polite!).

Both of my nans who had four kids each had thier last one in their 40's - so here is hoping.

I read an interesting fact the other day - I will keep doing the research and will pass on any new information - but it related to the number of eggs you have - it starts of an millions, by puberty is down to 750,000, and at 45 is down to 10,000 - thats enough - it only takes one and we have approx 10,000 !!!!! Anyway, the interesting point (according to this book) was that you can improve the quality of you eggs.  I suspect this is going to be down to diet and healthy living (regular exercise) and in reality if I can follow it, it can only have a positive affect, whatever the outcome.

I knew going into IVF that I needed to lose some weight etc, but couldn't quite seem to lose it fast enough - the IVF seemed to happen so quickly once we got on that train!  The only test I haven't had done is a test to see if my tubes are blocked and I am going to ask for a private referral from my doctor as apparently the NHS will not treat my case as a priority so I could be waiting months for the test.  Assuming there is nothing physical preventing a pregnancy (that can be seen in any case) I am going to follow this plan for a few months and see where I get to - will be 43 by then - yikes.

Sorry to waffle - I think that having a positive outlook can only help - hopefully a good diet and some exercise will help with that - healthy body, healthy mind is the saying I think?

I have looked on the NICE website and their current guidance is that IVF should only be available up to the age of 39 - I think they have made a recommendation to up it to 42, but it is not in their guidance, so I suspect they may take some time to change this, and then there will be time for each healthcare trust to implement it - so I would suspect by the time that all happens I will be just outside the age limit - knowing my luck they will change it where I live the day after my birthday! (Now what happened to that positive thinking?!?)

I might phone NICE tomorrow and see what I can find out - will keep you updated xxxxx


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## quisty

Hi RahelMaria and Rungirl

Love the story especially coming from your nan. Yes I read as well about improving quality of eggs it takes 3 months as that's how long the cycle is and it is down to diet,sleep,fitness etc. Fitness etc hmm maybe we should have a little club?? Cos boy do i need drop some weight I've been big  all my life but carry it well. I think i really need to loose at least 2 stone and that might be conservative. I don't have a gym really or classes where i live so I have to start up walking and cycling again. Believe it or not the weather is putting me off it's tooo hot here, at the moment we have a heatwave(madrid) so it's about 39% it's 30 just in my house.  Guess i'll have to get up at the crack of dawn. I really enjoy exercising once I start but it's always the starting bit that is hard loosing weight fast enough it's really tough because we know we need to loose 2lbs a week to be healthy but when you have so many to loose? I think i need to go to a tv boot camp lol maybe they'd whip me in to shape.

I'm going having my thyroide rechecked on Tuesday so lets see what happens? I've also asked for clomide but not sure if it will work on me or if they'll give it to me. 

If you do phone NICE let us know what they say, it's too late for me as i'm already 43 but still good to know.

Ok off now to have me salad. Take care all., from a melting sarah x


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## wasabi

Hello ladies sorry for just jumping into your thread.

I just wanted to share some news regarding a lady I met last week.  She conceived naturally at age 45, gave birth at 46 and her beautiful young daughter is now 9 years old. She said it's the best thing that's ever happened to her and it was totally unplanned. So please don't lose hope, everything's possible.

x


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## quisty

Hi Wasabi

That's so great to hear thanks for sharing. x


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## rungirl

always lovely to hear positive stories - keep em'coming....!XX


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## Aspi

soozywong said:


> Hi
> 
> I hope you don't mind if I join in this thread; I have just heard this morning that my AMH has dropped from 10.2 last September to 3.6 now. I just don't understand how it can change so quickly if it's meant to be a predictor of ovarian reserve. Doesn't make sense to me. I'm 42 next week, and finding this all so hard. About to embark on 2nd round of IVF (first round in Nov/Dec last year, BFN), but then got pg naturally last January and then m/c. I'm on DHEA and was hoping that it would improve my AMH so can't believe it's dropped so much. Feel devastated about it, but encouraged to read of others with lower AMHs who have got pg. Like others on this thread, I just don't feel ready yet to let go of the dream of having our own baby. But it is so so hard.
> 
> Really relate to a lot of what you are all saying. I'm with the Lister as well who I have found to be very good; don't know what our chances are now with such a lowered AMH. I responded badly last time (although then 3 grade 1 embryos from 3 follicles). But just have to remember it's the quality that counts, not quantity and have been doing everything I can think of - acupuncture, vitamins, eating healthily etc, to try and improve the quality.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for reading.
> 
> Susanna
> Hi there I hope you don't mind me asking whether you ladies have had a positive response fro
> Taking DHEA and what the clinics have advised. I also am looking at London clinics ARGC (having a consultation) lister,Zita west and also considering serum trying to get my head around it all. Got vitamins coming out of my ears and clear lie monitor too. Just good to hear good news and people's stories thanks x


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## Bearchops

Hi all, I just wanted to ask you ladies how can i improve my Amh-its 6! Im overweight so if i lost half my body weight !!! would it im improve my chances??


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## snw70

Hi, I am new to this site and just trying to find my way round!! I am 42 next month and had a missed miscarriage last summer at 10 weeks.  I had acupuncture for 6 weeks before I conceived that time.  Have had it since start of year but stopped about a month ago as was told by doc that I was no longer ovulating - this was because blood tests said so (even thought the one 7 days before your period wasn't done on the right day!) Now been told i am still ovulating! We had been trying for 2 years before that.  I know what you mean about it being a lonely journey.  Am about to have AMH test  - no one had mentioned it until we paid to see a consultant privately 2 weeks ago.  I would have had it done 2 years ago if I had known.  I have been told of lots of women who manage to conceive naturally in their 40s so we have to keep going!! Good luck!  
We may consider egg donation if it looks like we have no other option - possibly abroad as less waiting time? Anyone any ideas how to find a good clinic?  I am not sure about IVF as been told the chances of success are low at my age - but not sure this is accurate information either!


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## hopehopehope

Snw70 - hello!! If you want ivf and your 
amh is good you must do it ASAP as success really drops
after 43. I had 3 ivf , two at Reprofit in Czech, one at lister in London . I would definitely
Not recommend lister, it was a factory and I ended up writing my own protocol. Be prepared to
become an expert as the doctors sometimes need extra ideas! 
I would recommend serum in Athens, I didn't have ivf there, but did have other treatment. When I arrived there I was given a hug, peny, the doctor there, will test you for lots of things before 
you go to Athens, my dh sperm was improved from 15 - 50 million after her course of anti biotics. 
Unfortunately my only way forward now, at 44 is trying naturally or donor eggs. My dh saying no to donor. So I have month after month of heartbreak instead. 
If you want any more info pm me.


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## RachelMaria

Hello Ladies

Not sure I can help on AMH - I think my levels at 42 were somewhere around 6 or 7 and my clinic said they treat people with AMH as low as 4 or 5.  Thats was the Lister - hope hope hope - I know what you mean about the Lister - I felt very positive about using them and felt they were good whilst we were going through the process and I suppose to some extent it worked as I did get pregnant - I feel a little less confident about them now, but maybe this is just because it didn't work for me.  My main concerns is that I think the clinics can prepare you more for IVF - I have learnt a lot more about diet and lifestyle since my miscarriage that I could have been advised on before (I am not a stupid person, but sometimes you need pointing in the right direction even if is only a fact sheet etc).  Also they have not followed up with me since I left there after my second scan - that is what seems to make it really impersonal (they don't even know whether I have miscarried or have had any complications etc) - not a nice post sales service after spending nearly £8K!

Sorry - am feeling a bit negative today.

My DP will not agree to another round on IVF so I have asked my GP to refer me to a private hospital near me so I can have my tubes checked to see if they are clear (you think the NHS would have helped us out on that before we went for IVF, but we were talked out of it - don't get me started on that), and I have brought some books for ladies over 40 trying to get pregnant (whether natural or IVF) in teh hope that being proactive about things makes me feel like I have at least a little control!  There is pregnancy miracle, an ebook - another one from a web site called mothers over 40, and a book called getting pregnant faster my Dr Marilyn Glenville - which is all about diet and lifestyle changes etc.

Sorry for the waffle - don't know if any of this helps - hugs and love to you all xxxx


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## hopehopehope

Rachel, so sorry to hear about your mmc.  I pulled out of my first ivf with lister and changed to Reprofit
Half way as lister told ne to start injecting on wrong day and the nurses were rude. The last ivf there cost 6 k, they wouldn't let me use immunes, they charged a fortune to go to blast which meant we had to lose one emby as couldn't afford it for just one. I will look up that book, though ibhave been low sugar and gluten since January and have list five stone in six months!! Think it's too late for me now though, even though I'm still using ovulation sticks and trying naturally . Dh won't let me use a donor. I'm broken hearted over it. If we split up I'd go straight for a donor!


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## quisty

Hey Hope

Wow You've done so well to  loose all that weight I really need to buckle down and do the same as i need to loose about the same amount. I'm sorry your DH doesn't want to use a donor that must be tough on you. I hope he changes his mind  Take care x


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## hopehopehope

Quisty, the secret is a healthy(1100cals a day) vegetarian low carb(-120g/day) high protein (80g+/day) diet and logging 
food on myfitnesspal.com on phone. And 30 - 60 min exercise every day.


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## quisty

Hi Hope 

Thanks for that, I really need to get on it and to stop thinking that some miracle is going to happen. I've started going out hiking again so i just need tokeep it going and  guess it's time to stop making banana loaf.... thanks for the advise and well done x


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## Bearchops

Thats amazing weight loss in 6 months, do u think it helps to improve your Amh if u lose weight?


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## RachelMaria

Hi Quisty and Hope Hope Hope - sorry I haven't been on for a while - just wanted to check and see how you lovely ladies are doing?

Bearchops - sorry don't think I can be much help on the AMF, but I do know that BMI and weight is deemed to be an issue when trying to get pregnant - the NHS will not do IVF for anyone with a body mass index over a certain measure although it doesn't seem to worry the IVF clinics.

I now have my appointment - early August - to see if my tubes are blocked so will keep you updated - keep everything crossed for me xx

Let me know how you gals are getting on xxxx


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## quisty

Hi Rachelmaria and ladies.

Great that you have your appointment it's all stepping in the right direction. I'm just the same I hope to get my blood tests results back this week to see what the sate of play is. I'm worried as I've had hot flushes on and off for the past few weeks, I'm hoping it's just the weather here in Madrid.... Well it's been 4 moths since I stopped drinking so that's good not sure if i've lost any weight as I don't want to face the dreaded scales but i guess i should confront my fear head on. i'm feeling like nothing is really moving in my baby quest other than thinking about it if you know what i mean. Should I be running around panicking and doing everything possible and then more? Or should I be on the path i'm on which is relaxed but too static. I'd love to form a group over here to be able to chat to people but I get the feeling I'd be in it alone. Hmmm maybe I should start a ******** page for english speaking people in madrid

Well off now take care ladies and remember you're not alone. x


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## RachelMaria

Hiya hun

How strange I have been having hot flushes first thing in the morning! I was really worrying about it on the way to work this morning - am hoping it is the drugs getting out of my system but never felt odd when on them - maybe its just an overactive imagination.

Let me know how the blood tests go.

There must be other English ladies in Spain in similar situation? Do you know any English people there? Xxxx


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## rungirl

Hi Ladies,


How is everyone doing?  anyone got there blood test results back yet?
I'm waiting for a hospital appointment to have a hysterscopy?  has anyone had one of these Xxx


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## RachelMaria

Hi run girl

Sorry Hun can't help on that one as have never had it but didn't want to leave you with no answer, despite the fact I can't answer - not much sense from an Essex girl this late on in the day- sorry - wish I could blame it on the wine but am also ttc naturally so not allowed any

Quisty - you doing ok hun? Xxxx


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## quisty

Hi Ladies How are you all?

I was just wondering if anyone has done any of the work from The Fertile Female? I?m just starting and wondering what your thoughts are on it. On another still haven't got my test results back as I've had family over on holiday for the last 3 weeks. Had a great time with them but terrible for my healthy regime though i did stay of the alcohol it's been 4 months now I'm impressed by myself lol only wish i could do the same with the diet.....

Found out recently that my family member who offered to be my donor should i need it is pregnant again. I was slightly gutted and worried for her as her last few pregnancies have put both lives in danger. Touch wood so far all seems well. I guess if i do need a donor it wont happen till after i'm 44 now next march hmmm Has anyone else considered using family? At first I wa all for it but now i'm not sure? I don't like the idea of an anonymous donor for the sake of the child. Most people like to know where they've come from i guess... Any thoughts?

Have a good day And wishing you all good health and happiness xx


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## RachelMaria

Hi quisty

Must have been lovely having family over, sounds like you had a great time. I must admit I hadnt heard of the fertile female but have just checked out the website. I might well buy the book but am three books behind at the moment in my research - amazing how much stuff is out there when you look!

Gutted for you on your potential doner xxxx I think it is a beautiful offer but only you can make a decision on what is right for you. The only slightly similar experience I have is a discussion dp and I had about de.  In principle I was absolutely fine with the idea as I would still get to carry and give birth, and the baby would have a genetic link to dp, but when it came down to our one and only shot at ivf it seemed to become more important that the baby was 'ours'- we sort of agreed that if we couldn't do it between us then maybe it wasn't meant to be. Having said that if someone now said to me you have a 100 percent chance with doner eggs then I would probably jump at the chance.  I know I would love and care for the baby exactly the same whether it was my egg or if someone else had carried it- whatever the arrangement - sorry I know this doesn't really help does it?  One of my best friends did offer me her eggs, but we couldn't afford the procedures and as a single mum with two boys, one just born, I didn't feel it was the right thing to do, and in truth it was probably a bit too close to home for comfort thinking it would be dp sperm and my mates egg! All very confusing, I do wonder whether it would be different with family etc, especially if you live in different countries?  Sorry for the ramble honey xxxxx


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## quisty

Hi Rachelmaria and all the other Ladies

Thanks for getting back to me. It helps just to bounce ideas of other people. In a way it would be great to use a family member because it would have genes from my side  as well but it would still be hard for the ED to see the child I guess I think all parties would need to see a Councillor to talk about it?
I 'm doing an international phone conference with the group from fertile heart today my 1st, I'll let you know how it goes. I feel Like i aught to be in training like an Olympian for all this baby making stuff. I feel Like i think about a lot of stuff but I'm not putting into practice as if i'm waiting for some switch to be turned on and then I'll get  going. Truth is I know that doesn't happen. Just found out I have border line high cholesterol I think it's due to working from home a lot so not moving enough as my diet is pretty good. So I really need to get of my tush and start making a difference before i run out of time.

Ok off now wishing you all luck x


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## hopehopehope

Just checking in- wishing everyone lots of luck -  I'm still
Trying naturally as dh said no to a donor :-(


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## RachelMaria

Hi Girls

Well just had the results of the HSG which confirmed both tubes are blocked - now completely lost!


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## quisty

Hi RachelMaria

I'm sorry to hear about you test results it must have been a blow.I guess you must be feeling really fed up. Is the blockage the type type that can be sorted? What have the docs advised? Take care we're here if you nee us. x


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## quisty

Hi hopehopehope

I'm sorry that you Dh said no to trying a donor it must be disappointing for you. We're trying naturally as well due to costs. I guess at least I can focus on one thing now and really put my energy to it. Have a good wk end and take care. x


----------



## RachelMaria

Hi quisty

Thanks so much for the message and I am a bugger for not replying - have been getting stuck into work to take my mind off things and haven't been able to take a break for ages - am knackered!!

After the test I didn't really feel like I knew enough to ask the consultant any sensible questions so I did some reading and emailed him - given the dye didn't leave my womb he is pretty sure the 'blockages' are proximal (near the womb) which is much better than being near the ovaries, so that was good news - I also haven't had any of the other causes of scarring or blockages, such as STIs or abdominal surgery so he is hoping it is just a mucas plug.

I have opted to try for Tubal Cannulation to unblock the tubes, but it is really a 'last chance saloon' as DP will would no go for another round of IVF even if we could afford it - so keep everything crossed for me!  If all goes to plan I am 
hoping to have the procedure next week (a week before I go away on holiday) so that we can get down to some serious hopeful  baby making whilst we are away!

How are you girly - hows the fertile female etc going?

Hope Hope Hope/rungirl - any news from you ladies?


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## Krakiwi

Hello everyone. I haven't posted on here for a long long time but feel compelled to let you all know a little bit about what has been going on with me. I know this is a TTC site but I also know a little bit of hope goes a long way. As you will see I have a daughter now aged 4 and have been trying to produce a sibling for almost 2 and a half years. My husband ruled out IVF a while back (which was tough for me) but I have seen several fertility specialists and tried IUI (unsuccessfully). I have almost non existent AMH, High FSH and was clearly told donor was the only way to go. I have thyroid problems which I don't think have helped me (swinging all over the place - can't regulate). Anyway, the last fertility specialist I saw recommended DHEA (she recommended this for 4 months before we looked at IVF but I couldn't pursuade my husband to do this). I took it anyway for 4 months and got pregnant naturally (beginning of this year). I was amazed. Unfortunately I miscarried at 12 weeks. Broke my heart but after a couple of months I drove forward again. I'm 43 now. So about 3 months ago after reading every site I could find about people in my situation I tried a combination of Co-enzyme Q10, Agnus Castus and DHEA again alongside all the usual pregnany vits and folic acid. I already think DHEA is a bit of a wonder drug but taking the Agnus Castus up until ovluation was quite a revelation. For the first time in a long time I felt myself ovulate. I mean really confidently felt it. The upshot it that I am now 8 weeks pregnant again and hoping hoping hoping all will be ok with this one. Trying not to stress and panic but its tough. Probably the only other things I did were start swimming and make a deal with my husband not to let my own personal quest to be a mum again (which is honestly what it had become) take over and ruin our relationship. I basically reached rock bottom and we almost split but have so far turned it all around. Anyway, I just wanted to share this in the hope that perhaps some of these changes might help someone else or just generate a bit of hope. I was so devastated when I was told I had no hope of ever conceiving naturally again and now look...pregnant twice in 8 months. Sending everyone positivity and love. xxx


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## quisty

Hi Ladies 

Everyone around me is getting pregnant and it's starting to really get to me. I feel like i need to try some sort of drug but nothing is being offered to me here in Spain. I'm thinking about trying DHEA but I don't know if you can take it if your not having IVF. Does anyone know anything? I haven't even tried Clomid when i asked my doctor about it he didn't even know what it was. In 6months I will be 44 and then what

I feel Like I've been standing still for the last 4 yrs.... It's almost impossible when to move things in your life when your completely broke. I feel Like i need a DR to take a genuine interest in me  and to help me no matter what they outcome. Who are you supposed to turn to for real advise? I'm not loosing weight and I have a lot t  loose. I think I'm too blocked emotionally plus there's no classes near me as i live in a small village. i could take up Judo but ..... no not with all my aches and pains. I'm self employed so spend most the day at home on the computer or studying music or such like. I'm just a bit lost today but I'll bounce back as ever like we all do.

Sorry for all the self pity I needed to talk to people who understand. Thanks for Listening xx


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## Krakiwi

Hello Quisty....so sorry you're feeling so down. I can completely understand as I have felt just like you do. I too have been so frustrated by the seeming lack of interest/care taken by dr's. A fert Spec I saw in London was just so awful and completely dismissed any chance of me conceiving naturally again in a heartbeat and wanted me to look at DE. I was devastated. I think through sheer luck I then went to talk to another Spec at the Lister. She was fantastic and although she was guiding me down the IVF route, she said quite clearly that many people have been successful getting pregnant without intervention when taking DHEA. I have taken it twice without pursuing IVF and I have become pregnant both times. Coincidence? - I truly don't know. 
What I can say is that my conversation with her was a real turning point for me. I had been so worried about doing the "wrong" thing that I wasn't actually doing anything at all. I worried that if I took this supplement or that supplement that it might be a mistake and I hve little time left for mistakes. IVF and any other intervention was ruled out by my hubby so I knew that wouldn't happen. Anyway, her guidance that DHEA wouldn't hurt me, particularly if taken for only 4 months was the start of things more positive. Unfortunately my first pregnancy this year ended in miscarriage and I went through all the agony of thinking it was the DHEA but it could actually have been anything from my fluctuating thyroid to chromosome issues. It took me a few months to pluck up the courage to give it a go again but when i did I figured I had to give it a good serious shot so researched what else I could take to support my goal. I happened upon a blog of a woman similar to me who took a similar concoction and conceived. DHEA/AGNUS CASTUS/COQ10 etc. As I wrote before I also made some changes to my thought processes and started being more active generally. Anyway, the point of my story is not to prescribe something to you or tell you what to do but to say I do understand. I definitely found strength in my own research and trusting that other women who share their stories can often provide so much more value and insight  than Dr's anyway (particularly if TTC naturally). I'm not really sure of your full history and can only assume you've got your Thyroid sorted (if not you need to). Interestingly I have a sister who is just turned 45 and about to have her 3rd child. Conceived naturally after 3 miscarriages over 2 years. She had hypo and then hyper thyroid, trouble conceiving first child, practically miraculous conception with second and then this really tough time with the third but it has happened after such a long haul. I think a bit of hope is really important. Sorry if this is a little garbled. Just wanted you to know you're not alone  . xxx


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## quisty

Hi Krakikwi and the other ladles

Krakiwi thank you if your intention was to give someone hope it's worked. First let me say congratulations I'm keeping everything crossed for you. It's funny how my friends pregnancy made me cry But yours feels me with happiness and hope. Your post has given me back my courage and I'm going to do whatever I have to do. So i'm going to get some DhEA and the other recommended vits. If i don't try I'll regret it.  

Can you tell me what brand of DHEA you bought? I'm not sure that I can buy it over here so my friend said she'd buy it for me. It really is time too make things move. Feeling more positive now so thanks.

Take care all. It's good to know I'm not alone. Sarah xx


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## mfmcmoo

Hi Quisty

If you look at the supplements section - there are numerous stories of DHEA working. I put together a list of all the latest thinking around vits and supplements. Look especially at the ones which are to improve egg quality, as I reckon that is what we need at our age. 
I just ordered a whole lot of things on ebay of all places - I may update the list to say what I found, where I found it. I think DHEA also did it for me, together with CoQ10 and L'argnine. When I went to see a new fertility specialist - he said that at my age and level of AMH, that you had the same chance of falling pregnant naturally vs IVF vs IUI. Also - there are some other options rather than pure IVF, which are much less invasive and much much less expensive - you could do some stimulation meds (less than with IVF as you are only trying to get one egg), then track progress via 2 or 3 scans, then try naturally when you are about to ovulate. My cousin (age 42) did this and had a baby.

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=294994.0


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## Krakiwi

Hello. I did indeed mean to give you hope - although when I re-read my post it was a little all over the place  . Glad you got the general gist though!!. Great you're feeling positive. So important!!. Quite hard to discuss this kind of thing with people who don't understand (because you just can't unless you've been there). I wish you strength and lots of luck. The label on my bottle says micron 5 dhea 50mg tabs (you can get 25mg as well me thinks). I got it from dhea dot com. Think they import from the states but not 100% sure. xxx


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## Krakiwi

Just one more thing....if you do take DHEA - watch your TSH and FT4 levels. Insist on getting them checked at least every 3 months if not more frequently. DHEA definitely seemed to fiddle around a bit with my levels. My thyroxine dose has been like a yo yo this year. Also, I'm taking lose dose baby aspirin every day (just something else someone told me can help minimise miscarriage risk). x


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## RachelMaria

Hi Quisty - sorry you have been feeling so down honey - life feels like such a ***** sometimes doesn't it!  Had a great holiday, although the place we were at seemed to be full of pregnant ladies rubbing their tums and kiddies - was surrounded by pregnant ladies on the plane - think they are all out to get me!  No luck Lanzarote for me - AF started this afternoon with a vengance - don't want to give up and know it is only one month after procedure - but how long is too long to wait before I ask yet another doctor for Clomid whatever I can try that doesn't involve IVF - I think if I mention it agin to DP we will end up in a row - am probably clutching at straws but am visiting a medium next week - hope they have something positive to say.............

Helloalso  to all you ladies I haven't spoken to before xx


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## quisty

Hi Ladies

Thank you all for all your great words they really do lift the spirits. I went to the DR this week determined to get some clomid. hmmmm The advise he gave me and this is for real he told me to eat slower and wait no word of a lie. As you can probably guess with fabulous advise like that i still don't have Clomid. 
He also told me that my cholesterol was good. Also pants as another told me it was borderline high and it was confirmed on the net. Well no surprises when i tell you that've I've given up on him. I just found a little extra job so I'm that money will help pay to see someone privately and some of the meds.

Thanks for the advise on DHEA i'm going to get some who knows. The list of supplements is great. 

Rachel Great that you had a least 1 tube unblocked now lets keep fingers crossed. Have you tried DHEA I think I'll start in Nov so I'll let you know how it goes. a medium well you know what it might help just be careful about believing everything they tell you. They are very good at reading body language etc and doing research on line if they know your name etc. Let me know how it goes. It would be so nice if occasionally there were get togethers for all of us on here it would be so funny because I'm so sure we all have an image of each other.

Stimulation meds sound interesting I'm going to go and see a gyni privately so I'll see if she can advise me on it lets hope she's better than my DR.

I'm going to make a plan of action so thanks ladies for all your help and advise. Take care wishing you all the best and hoping that your prayers are answered xxx


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## Moominmum

Hi All,

I would like to join this group please. I've just had a BFN from an IVF/ICSI cycle and think that that might not be for us.

I wonder if any of you could help me with what I can eat/drink/do to increase any chances.
How quickly does AMH decline?

In June my AMH was 10.3 and FSH 7.

Thanks in advance.  

Moominmum


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## mfmcmoo

Hi MooMM

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=294994.0

AMH decllines really quickly after 40 - yours seems very good for your age - I would start on these supplements ASAP - you need about 3 months minimum (mine worked after 6 months of DHEA). I just ordered myo inositol, melatonin and l'arginine from Ebay - will put the sellers details on my list above. DHEA you get online at Biovea.co.uk or various other places. COQ10 from costco is the best price by far. Then I found a great multivitamin with Fortis health ltd - also online - vital multivitamin, which seems to have quite a few of the standard things on the list.

Good luck - let us know how you get on


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## Moominmum

mfmcmoo: thank you so much and what a list! I ordered Royal Jelly and CoQ10 yday - what are the key ones you would recommend from the long list? THANK YOU SO MUCH!


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## Jammy J

Hi. I'm also in same boat and have just ordered Chinese herbs. 
I keep hearing about coq10, do you know exactly what it does? 
X


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## mfmcmoo

Moo - The first part of the list is *all* pretty important - zinc definitely, but I would say there has been phenominal success with DHEA for older woman. Personally I think it was the combination of DHEA and CoQ10 (I took the lower dosage) and L'arginine (I took this on and off and took the lower dosage too) + and then the multivitamin (I mention one right at the end of the post which seems to have most of the other stuff in it). Also take Aspirin. Please read up on DHEA - there is a huge amount of info on this site before you start taking it - also you may wish to have a blood test to see what your starting levels are. And not recommended if you have PCOS.

I am thinking of trying again and have now started taking myo inositol and melatonin (I did not take these as I did not know about them at the time) as well as all the other stuff I know it is a long list - but I would just do it for 3 - 6 months and see what happens.

Jah - a very good article on CoQ10. Read more: http://www.advancedfertility.com/blog/coenzyme-q10-and-fertility/
There have been no documented studies using humans, however, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence from people who have used it (usually in combination with something else). As mentioned above, I think it was the thing which just gave me the "extra push" my eggs needed.

/links


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## Moominmum

mfmcmoo: thanks! I saw your comments at the bottom now. I think I just found the whole list overwhelming at first. Multi vit sorted now! Now just the rest. Many many thanks.  
After the failed IVF I just want to improve all chances whatever route we take. To read your story is an inspiration!


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## Jammy J

Thx so much. Is one brand better than another with the coq10? Also what dossage did you take? X


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## Krakiwi

I am definitely all in support of DHEA. I am now just on 11 weeks pregnant at 43 and have managed to get pregnant naturally twice (in over 2 years). Both times after taking DHEA. The first sadly ended in MC. This time around I also took CoQ10 and Agnus Castus along with a good multi vit, folic acid etc etc and I'm still taking aspirin. I have almost non existent AMH and high FSH. Good luck to all of you. Sending lots of positivity. xx


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## mfmcmoo

Hi Krakiwi
Awesome news - keep us updated on your progress - I hope all goes well. Looks like you and I were in pretty much the same position! Well - let's see how things go. 

JAH - brands are similar I think, but there is a difference between the different forms "Ubiquinol is up to six times as effective as ubiquinone as it is more easily absorbed. Doses here are for ubiquinone version." Most CoQ10 is the ubiquinone version, else it would clearly say Ubiquinol. I took about 200mgs per day previously, but now am taking 300mgs. Clinics in Canada using 600mg per day


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## Moominmum

JAH: seems like we are both  the same stage of confusion. I will PM you with what I have bought and how much I am taking to not this thread  Then I will update any progress here


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## quisty

Hi ladies how are you all doing?

I have found these books full of great info and I highly recommend reading them The fertility diet by Sarah Dobbyn, Inconceivable and The Fertile female by Julia Indichova, Getting pregnant faster by Dr Marilyn Glenville phd, and The infertility cure by Randine Lewis phd.

In these books there's lots about beneficial foods and vitamins and what things to avoid and how sleeping well really helps.... It is a mind field but I think it's important to listen to your body and even your dreams sometimes. As far as brands are concerned my nutritionist said that you should avoid things bulked up with chalk. It could be worth seeing a nutritionist because they will look at how your bowels are functioning and if your digestion is working well which can all affect the absorption of anything you take. And the price of vits etc builds up so i guess it's best to get the most out of them.. Mine also said that it's not good to stay on the same ones for long periods of time as your levels change and thus the vits need to be adapted. One company she advised me to use for some stuff is called Nutri http://www.nutri-online1.co.uk/ They don't have everything you may need but they have some and i know the quality is very good. apparently nutritionists take this brand.

I hope this helps a bit I'm still trying to find the right path for me hope i know it when i'm on it. Today we went for a walk in the countryside it felt so therapeutic better that any book or Dr I've seen. 

wishing you all luck x 

/links


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## Alfiemum28

Hi all

I am new to this post as I DONT know what post I need to be on lol!!!  another negative this mn, I suppose I am looking for advice re vitamins etc.  At present I am trying to get pregnant again naturally, my last was in April which resulted in a chemical!!  We have tried a few times since then and (when I havent been going for NK killer cell tests) and september was a miss due to not wanting to get pregnant before we went to serum for answers!!  We think its DH sperm and the defragmentation of this.  I usually got pregnant very easy but just dont seem to at the moment. 

The miscarriage side of it I will worry about again when I do get pregnant!! Serum basically thinks its DH sperm which is borderline fragmentation.  If nothing happens by January thinking about IVF.  DH is on vitamin c, vitamin e, omega 3. I have hit a block wall and not sure what I need to be doing to help my chances again.  can someone give me advice re vitamins.  I currently take Vitamin D3, high dosagae folic acid. coQ10 and aspirin.  Had been taking a preconceive vitamin but have run out of these!  There is so many other vitamins talked about that I dont know really what I should be taking so any advice would be welcome.  All my tests so far have been negative and I am currently waiting on my FSH and AMH results before deciding next step.

Great hearing some success stories on this thread as I need it at the moment as really beginning to think that we may never get our longed for second child.  Thanks xxx


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## mfmcmoo

Alfiemum24, I put together this list - the first section is ALL pretty important - especially look into DHEA (amazing successes for older women), then perhaps look also at melatonin, L' arginine and myo inositol (as well as what you are taking now). The dosages are also there. Then I just heard about something else - stuff grown in Tibet, am doing some research on it at the moment, when I have a summary together, I will add to the list. Have also included at the end where I sourced them from.

There is also info for your other half - Zinc and vitamin B are also really important for him.

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=294994.0

cheers


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## Alfiemum28

Wow Thanks MFMCMOO    its people like you to give me some inspiration!!  Thank-you for taking the time to do the list out and all the research!!  I am feeling a bit more positive today, yesterday was just one of those bad days when I think why me!!  But today am feeling more positive again.  I know you had put on your list re accupucture and I have had this before but the guy I used has now moved out of town so its just not easy to get to him.  Although I have started reflexology with a super lady and hopefully it is working.  Do you think accu is better  The lady I go to is really great and knowledgable and helps couples with infertility!  Again thanks for you knowledge!!  I am off to Serum this mn to try IUI, bit disappointed its not stimulate but Peny at Serum thinks unstimulated would suit me best.  If this doesnt work then IVF in January, so hopefully my vitamins will be kicking in by then, Hugs


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## mfmcmoo

Hi Alfiemum - have you also thought about "mini IVF" I think they call it - mild stimms, monitoring through internal scans, trigger and natural sex? Less invasive, much cheaper than full IVF and less meds used, same chance of success as other methods at our age.
Cheers


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## quisty

Hi Ladies Hope you''re all doing well on your journey. I was just wondering if anyone has been tested before using DHEA? If so what test is it? I have no DR here helping me with advise at all the last DR I saw told me to eat slower and wait!!! So As you can imagine I have little faith in the Docs here. Should I try to get Clomide before DHEA? Has anyone bought Clomide online? 

Wishing you all the best


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## mfmcmoo

The first time I didn't get my DHEA tested. You actually test for DHEA. I think you can even do a salivea test now. I have done a test this time though, although, mostly out of interest to monitor the change in levels -  I thought that the likelihood of me having high DHEA levels was low (my DHEA was low), which was correct.


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## quisty

Hi mfmcmoo and Ladies

Thanks for the info. Did you do the test with a Dr? I have a slight chest infection and they said the only thing was normal sweets!!!! I'm havong honey,lemon,ginger,thyme and cloves any other ideas? Have A lovely wkend ladeis. Fingers crossed for all. x


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## RachelMaria

failed attempt again this month  - I have brought some DHEA - should I be tested before I start taking it?


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## quisty

Rachelmaria i'm so sorr I know how heart breaking it is.I'm always too scared to buy tests and then I think well if I don't think about it maybe I wont jinx myself, how stupid is that lol .I don't know really what to do about testing either.. i'm going to buy some as well. Let me know how you get on. I should be coming to London in a few weeks so I might try and see if there are any affordable workshops or something on about fertility? I feel like moving to house with loads of fertile females and hoping I sync in with them?? who knows at this point I'll give most things ago lol. x


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## RachelMaria

Honey - I know exactly how you feel - I took some DHEA this afternoon anyway - everyone appears to be aving about it - so you never know - am also taking some other fertility supplements from Dr Glenville - can you have too much of what is meant to be a good thing?  I will let you know how I get on - my pee hasn't turned a funny colour yet, which it does sometimes with different vitamins!

I started reading some stuff on the internet today about sucess rates being really low for ladies who have had tubes unblocked - but I stopped myself rading too much - if it didn't work for anyone them I am sure they wouldn't keep doing it so heres hoping!

Sat in my PJs last night and had half a bottle of wine (which was obviously not on the diet) and I must say after about 1/2 hour sobbing down the phone to my mum whilst drinking it I felt a lot better - onwards and upwards as they say - can't say the diet to lose weight has been very successful though - how are you doing on that score - are you still having lots of walks?

Make sure you bring a warm coat with you when you come over - bloody freezing here at the moment!!!! love and hugs XXXX


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## quisty

Hi RachelMaria

oh I  Hear you about the pee thing pregnacare did that to mine. I think a good cry is always good better to let it out and then move on. I'm going to Scotland for New year Man it would be so nice to have a good drink... 

Weight loss ha I laugh in the face of it... I've actually managed to put on 3kgs lol.  I'm in my Pj's laughing at myself. The weight just seems to love me a little too much me thinks. In truth i think it's to do with old emotions that need to be dealt with. I think some sort of guided meditation would really help me but I just get distracted so thinking about buying a cd. I truly believe that everything works in union so I think i need to work on many levels at the same time. That or I'm going to find me a mystic medicine man (hmm can I say man or is it not pc lol) and ask hmm to dance around me shaking a few things in my general direction whilst I eat yak tail and drink the water from a mountain in the Andes while standing on my head. Feel free to join me Rachel it's open to all LOL. 

Is everybody scared to take pregnancy test or do you rush to do them? I try to put it off for as long as possible. I?m thinking of doing one as I may or may not be late my cycle is a little moveable nowadays. I've had some symptoms but they could me anything...... I just don't want to get my hopes up again. 

Have you tried Yoga? I read that On e of the reasons for problems with fertility is a lack of good blood supply to that part of out bodies as it's being diverted to our other organs as we're getting older. Yoga so I've been told helps that blood move better in the reproduction organs. I started doing it again and felt good but have stopped again as I have chest infection. Man if you had the money wouldn't you just go to some retreat with our partners and be doing all these things as part of out routine for 6 months till we we're fighting fit.  Perhaps it's time for me to go on a reality tv show or X factor??

Right Think that's enough rambling from me today

Take Care Rachel I'm here if you want to chat and we can always PM. Love and hope to you Rachel xxx


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## mfmcmoo

Hi girls quisty and rachelmaria - just a quick one - DHEA does have side effects - nothing major with most people (greasy hair, some hair falling out etc.) , but just wanted to say, it is better to start slowly to give your body time to adjust - like one or two pills a day (not near sleep time as may interrupt sleep for the first while), then move onto the full dose. As mentioned in my post earlier. I never had my levels tested for the first round.


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## quisty

Hi mfmcmoo Thanks for that I think I'm just gonna give ago and like you say start gently.. x


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## RachelMaria

Quisty - you made me laugh so hard I nearly peed myself - not good as my pee is bright yellow today (apparently that is vitamin B!).

Mfmcmoo - thanks so much for the info - I have only taken one tablet so far - am worried about the hair loss - I have really long hair and could have sworn this weekend thatmore hair than usual was coming out when I brushed it - the miracle of youth (apprently) and it makes you go bald - is there nothing fair in this world!!  lov to you both xxxxx


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## mfmcmoo

RachelMaria - if it is any consolation, although some of my hair fell out and was greasy (pretty much like when you are pregnant), it was much much healthier and it all grew back when I came off the DHEA


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## Alfiemum28

Hi all, just thought I would come on here this morning as feeling a bit low at the moment    Self employed and trying to motivate myself to do some work!!!  Got my AMH results this morning and they where 1.6...gutted as I believe 4 is the norm!!  Can anyone explain this to me?? I so want this second child, I usually have a 25/26 day cycle and this mn I am now on day 30 and nothing!!!  have had the cramps etc, spotting yest and still no A/F.. what is going on!!!  Taking advice on this thread I have ordered loads vitamins but already have been on some for a few month.  Is it DHEA that helps with you egg reserve....  I am supposed to be going back to serum in Greece this mn to try IUI once more and then possible IVF in January but am now wondering if its worthwhile??  Really dont know what to do!!  All tests negative and dont really feel preg at mo, as I have been there so many times I know the symptoms and my test positive usually after 7 days.  Though I did ovulate late this month day 15/16 which also was unusual, though I maybe put it down to the weekly reflexology.
Sorry for the moan, just really gutted and not sure what our options are at the moment!!


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## Krakiwi

Hi Alfiemum
I know everyone is different but I have almost non existent AMH, sky high FSH blah blah blah. I'm 43. I have been trying for a second child for over 2 years now and have finally finally made it to 14 weeks (although I am having some issues). I took DHEA both times (I MC earlier this year). I also took Agnus Castus this second time around as I reckoned the only thing I wasn't sure of was my ovulation (despite what all the monitors were telling me). I had been tested before and they said I was ovulating but I wanted to be more sure. I took AC for the first 14 days each month for 2 or 3 months. I swear to you that I felt myself ovulate for the first time in a very long time. Other than that all the normal vits and aspirin. I think DHEA is pretty good but then again I don't know if it is that or the Agnus Castus that did it for me. Don't lose heart. I'm older than you with worse results and I got there (I know every story is different). I so know how hard it is. Oh and I didn't bother getting my DHEA levels tested. I thought about it but thats as far as I got. Keep going and I pray you get there. xxx

Just reread your post again. Have you already started DHEA? I ask only because it did affect my cycle length a little. 

Hello Quisty as well. Sending you some positive vibes as well. xx


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## mfmcmoo

Hi Alfiemum
Sorry you are feeling low - these can be trying days. There are two ways to measure AMH - just make sure you are looking at the correct scale for the unit of measurement which they used. Also, I read that over 42 years AMH is not a reliable indicator of whether you will fall pregnant or not, and I know that you are not over 42, but if your AMH is low, I reckon it is the same thing i.e. not a reliable indicator of whether you will fall pregnant. It looks like from your signature that your main problem seems to be on the miscarriage side as opposed to the falling pregnant side. So I wouldn't worry too much about AMH level. What are your other indicators like FSH and LH showing?
One of the things the doc said to me was that at my age and amh level (41 yrs when I went to see him) I had as much chance of falling pregnant naturally vs IVF vs IUI. 
For the record - I took DHEA to improve my egg quality for 6 months together with L'arginine and CoQ10. There is not really anything that you can do to increase your number of eggs - you have what you have and it decreases with age. Having said that - if you are ovulating and able to fall pregnant - you have eggs! So my advice is - get your eggs in the BEST possible shape i.e. improve the quality before going for IVF again. Obviously try and find out what caused the miscarriages too. In the next post, I will add the list of supplements I put together, but the following may help egg quality : DHEA, CoQ10, L'arginine, Myo inositol, Melatonin plus the general other supplements like zinc,vit b. vit d etc
Let us know how you get on
Regards


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## mfmcmoo

Link for supplement list is http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=294994.0


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## quisty

Hi Krakiwi and the rest of you lovely ladies

Well I thought i might have had a BFP BUT NO Just lots of symptoms and nothing ho hum. I have finally found a Dr wo said I have to go see a gyni privately and then come back with results and she can prescribe me Clomid finally for a whopping 1.50€..... can't believe it's so cheap here. Can you believe I've been trying to get it for more than 2 yrs here. Not sure If I should try it or go straight for DHEA?? Any thoughts? My Period was really short this time barely 3 days
no idea what that means unless it means that =m running out of time It really hit me the other day that I really might not have a child and certainly not the 6 I had intended to have. I'm not ready to give up yet though there's still some fight left in this bird yet lol. So ladies If you feel breeze that will be me  running past you in training for this marathon. Night ladies sleep tight and remember your dreams may give you a valuable piece of advise. xx


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## mfmcmoo

Hi Quisty

DHEA worked wonders for me combined with CoQ10 and L'arginine, and aspirin as you can see from my signature at age 41. This time around (42), I feel I need to get my eggs in the best possible shape ASAP, so am taking DHEA, CoQ10, L'arginine, myo inositol, melatonin for egg quality. then am taking the usual vits alongside these. I am going to take these for 3 months (and then for another 3 months during "treatment"). See my earlier post for link to list of supplements and where you can buy them for the best prices. 

I went to the doc today and he is going to give me mild stimms with Femara (one pill every 12 hours for days 3 - 7), then natural sex. We will see how it goes for 3 months. My AMH is undetectable <0.08, but he did a scan and saw 4 follicles, with one lead follicle. I don't think I am ovulating, but am going to try supplements to bring on ovulation (agnus castus but I don't think you can take this together with Clomid). I read that Clomid was not that great for older ladies. Why don't you check out Femara (my doc said years ago there was a bit of a thing as to whether Femara was causing deformities in babies, but it turned out not to be valid) ? He is giving me Femara as he says it doesn't increase your chances of ovarian tumours/cancer.


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## quisty

Hi mfmcmoo

Your fab! It's so great that you know all this stuff and you're doing it. I have your list so I've been figuring out what to take, but i think I better stop figuring and start doing it more full on. I'll check out femera and see what it says. The link where you got the Dhea seems not to be working but i think I've found somewhere else. What are stimms? Is that something i should be trying to get hold of? Right i'm going to do some more research tonight and see what I can find. Thank you for all this support it means a lot to me and ll us ladies. xx


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## Krakiwi

Hello to you both (all). I took clomid right at the beginning of my attempts to conceive a second child and whilst I did produce more eggs I was unsuccessful in conceiving. In the end I kind of concluded that if egg quality was the problem then producing more of them each month without dealing with the quality issue wasn't particularly helpful. If I wasn't in the situation I am in now I don't think I would take it again as I didn't fare that well when taking it anyway (had thrush for 3 months straight). I would support mfmcmoo's idea and as I said before I took Agnus Castus - just a regular brand you could get at Holland and Barratt. Its suggested that to aid ovulation you take it up until you ovulate (or the time you should ovulate). I took it in conjunction with DHEA (and the other things that I think I listed in my profile) and had no issues healthwise at all and of course I am now 14 weeks pregnant. I do think you need to stop planning or thinking and start doing though Quisty. I spent so long worried about taking supplements thinking I was risking something but to be honest doing it all unaided wasn't getting me anywhere. Being decisive and coming up with a plan kept me on sane street. Whatever you do I wish you lots of love and luck. xxxx


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## mfmcmoo

Krakiwi  - couldn't agree with you more - just do it! (and ps - took your advice last month already and have started taking agnus castus to see if I can get ovulation going).

Also - Quisty, stimms - sorry - was in a rush - I meant stimulation with the Femera - so not anything extra.

Good luck


----------



## Alfiemum28

Hi all

I really need some advice as so torn as to what to do!!!!!  Yesterday morning I got a call from my consultant to say my AMH was 1.6, gutted was an understatement!!!  my AF had been late, well I was on day 30 of my cycle and my AF is usually day 25!!  but i ovulated late ie day 16 this month.

Lunchtime I did a test and POSITIVE!!!!!!  YEH!!!!!  I was just waiting on my AF to come so I could book to go back to serum to get IUI done.  Peny has sent through a list of what I need to take and prednisolone is on it.  I seen my consultant today and he is very reluctant for me to take this as it can lead to stomach ulcers etc!! and he feels that with the clexane and asprin it is not a good combination! I am so confused as have seen where loads of women have taken it, I know there is a risk of facial disfigurement but this is very small and as this is probable my last natural pregnancy what should I do, go with my NI doc or trust peny!!!  does anyone have any advice or been on this.

Thanks xxx


----------



## mfmcmoo

Wow - congrats Alfiemum! Hope all goes well. Not sure what prednisolone is - sorry! I did not take Clexane with aspirin - I thought they did the same thing and Clexane was better to use (I used it through out my pregnancy).

Keep us updated


----------



## Jammy J

Well done wills mum, excellent news. 
Is this natural Bfp? I think you may have had treatment just after me at serum, end of sep/oct? X


----------



## Krakiwi

Alfiemum - fantastic fantastic. So pleased for you. I will be absolutely no help in answering your question but wanted to say well done. I have everything crossed for you.

Mfmcmoo - good old agnus castus. I was so worried when I started taking it (more than I was with DHEA for some reason) because I had read that if you have a normal cycle it can mess you up etc etc BUT I figured damn it to hell - give it a go and man I felt it. I'll have to re-read my own profile now to remember how long I took it for but I think it may have been like the second month I could have pinpointed ovulation down to the minute just by the way I felt. Best of luck with it all anyway. xx

Love to everyone else.


----------



## Chandlerino

Hi ladies,

My Dr has recommended 25mg DHEA x3 a day but I'm interested in your comments about CoQ10 and L'arginine. How much did you take per day?


----------



## quisty

Hi Ladies
A quick question my cycle is about 35-40 days sometimes a little shorter. Well I just started using a clearbue fertility test and it says I'm ovulating today on day 9 is that possible? My Af was really short this month only 3 days....  Any ideas? I've been looking on line but can't find an answer.


----------



## Alfiemum28

HI all

Thanks again mfmcmoo,

Sorry to hear your bad news JaH123, its a long journey we are all on, hugs.  its hard to know what the answer is? I am on now my 5th pregnancy and again trying something different!! xx

Krakiwi - congrats!!  Wills mum- congrats also xx

I am now week 5 and decided to go ahead and take prednisolone with this pregnancy as really trust peny in Serum.  Feeling actually quick good which makes me worry as usually I have awful nausea and tiredness but this is maybe to come.  Though didnt have it with my first pregnancy so maybe this is the good one this time.  But with all the vitamins, clexane, asprin etc I am surprised I am not rattling.

Hoping to get scan soon just to make sure all ok, and on the 8wk countdown now.  I have tried everything for this pregnancy and am getting weekly reflexology to help me relax etc.  But am feeling positive and trying PMA this time.  Really want to lie at home and wait it out until I get the ok but need to be in work and it keeps my mind occupied!

Just wanted to check did anyone else take coq10 during pregnancy?

Thanks  xxx


----------



## RachelMaria

Hi Alfiemum - many congratulations honey - gives us all hope xxx

Quisty - I know I generally tend to ovulate on day 13, but my friend (who tried for a couple of years to get pregnant) ovulates on day six which is really early - so it can happen - get boking girlfriend!!!!!!!

Hope everyone else is doing OK? xxxx


----------



## quisty

Hey Rachelmaria and Ladies

Thanks for the info Rachel I was thinking that I bought a duff monitor. Oh maybe I've just been doing it all wrong lol Ok Back to the drawing board. Think my Dh will be happy guess well be having more of the you know what (i'm sure I can feel a few headaches coming on) and I don't mean from my side lol. How's it going with the Dhea? I'm going to order some this month. I can really feel the clock ticking it's so scarey I'll be 44 in 4 months I think I'm the oldest lady on here. Do you remember the days when you  used to be the youngest Not sure when that changed. 

Right I'm off I might just get an early night....... lol Take care Ladies x


----------



## Alfiemum28

Hi all

Looking for some positive stories re HCG!!!  got my results yesterday
15dpo 51
17 dpo 124

I know they have doubled within the timescale and peny at serum is not worried but when i have read so many thread with high hcgs I am not worried.  I was monitoring it this pregnancy due to the history of m/c over the past 2.5 years.  this was a natural bfp and I ovulated day 15/16 tested postitive day 30 14dpo (this was late ovulation and late BFP) for me, but put it down to weekly relfexology.

Getting hcg done again today and will hopefully get results thursday.  I am now so worried!!  not sure getting the HCG done was such a good idea as I have been feeling really positive this preg and with all the meds I have been taking to prevent a m/s then surely it had to to work!!

Any positive stories would be great.

Hugs xxxx


----------



## RachelMaria

Hi Quisty - I know exactly what you mean - intervewing people at work at the moment that were born in the 80's - goddammit where does the time go! feel like a bloody granny - particularly when you read loads of stuff that says that basically your fertile life is pretty bad after 35 and non existant when you are 40 - I know there are some statistics that say fertility really drops at 43 - guess who's bloody 43rd brthday it is on Saturday - and I don't think I ovulated this month - woe is me - keep crying when I am driving the car and then get really angrey with myself - then I comfot eat - but heyho - maybe its just hormones - or whore moans as DP keeps telling me (Cheeky sod) - I haven't seen any nasty side affects from the DHEA yet and have read so many positives about it - might reconsider if my hair starts to fall out though!

Alfie - I know it must be really hard not to worry (I am not sure the worry will ever go away) particularly if you have had issues before - but if you are being told by experts that the results are OK I would try to give yourself a little breather (hard I know) - keep trying to think positive babes


----------



## RachelMaria

Hi girlies - just speak to a lady on another thread who has not ovulated this month either - she has been told by her IVF clinic not to take DHEA as it can affect ovulation.

Also just found out that Soya milk (which I have been taking for ages becuase I thought it was healthier) is not good if you are trying to get pregnant.

Not sure I am ever going to get this right!


----------



## mfmcmoo

RachelMaria - can you get a few more details from her - this is the first that I have heard of this specific point against DHEA (there have been others, but they have also been general statements that DHEA didn't work/help or changed cycles) etc. So just wondering what they based their information on and would love to know more about it
Thanks


----------



## Krakiwi

Hello to you all. 

Alfiemum - I stopped Coq10 when I found out I was pregnant. Only because I had read it wasn't so goon in pregnancy. To be honest I didn't research it thoroughly. I also won't be much help on the hcg levels sorry but I'm sure all is ok....breathe!!!

RachelMaria - I find any negative comment about DHEA quite fascinating, most specifically because my fertility specialist at the Lister was so for it. now I wasn't sitting there telling her that I didn't ovulate so maybe her comments would have changed in that situation but I kind of can't help but think that wouldn't be the case. Its frustrating hearing people get that advice about it because its still so new and so many people are afraid of it. I guess each person must do their own research but I feel that I wouldn't be sitting here at 15 weeks if I hadn't made friends with DHEA and Agnus. A tricky area. 

Thinking of you all and hoping for positive news for you all. xxx


----------



## BECKY7

Hey krakiwi  I am the other lady rachelmaria refer me to ha ha as I have alway get my 2 peak on my CBM on CD10/11 in the last 6 month then I start taking DHEA 10 day ago and 1st time this month today I am CD11 and got low when it suppose to be my 2nd peak but nothing on even high that I normally get from CD7/8  so I email penny in serum about it and that when she told me to stop because I need to know when I will be ovulate for my next DIUI on my next cycles as I will be on clomid 150mg  aghhhhh cannot wait to get started as I just start taking mushroom and cordyceps 2 day ago.
Congrats on being PG as maybe it work for you but not me or it only work if any ladies having IVF rather then IUI  am I right thinking that !!!!!
Rachelmaria  have you switch from soya milk to normal fat milk as load of proteins as I still drink pint of warm milk before bed hee hee

Becky7


----------



## quisty

Hey Girls 

Rachel thanks for the notes I think i better keep a closer eye on things in the future.. Yes Soya products mess up your hormone levels. I was on it for years then changed this year funny enough I've been drinking it this week as a ran out of almond milk and as I live in a village it was the only thing I could get. I?m just wondering if it could have affected my hormone levels and thus the reading on my clear blue monitor?? 

I hope you intend to do something nice for your birthday Rachel? I Have to admit I spent my last one bawling my eyes, i don't recommended it, it doesn't do anything for the bags. Apparently African yam is very good for fertility and i think it's full of follic acid. I started buying it just in case also coconut is supposed to be good as well. I read that the problem at our ages is that the blood around our gyni bits doesn't flow so well as it's being used as well to manage our other organs. This is why we to be fitter and slimmer sadly so that the body is not being so taxed. I guess that's why people do yoga as it opens up all those bits we've forgot about.. I know I have quite a few of those bits.

Take care Ladies until next time


----------



## mfmcmoo

Hi Becky - what is the "mushrooms" you talk about?

Thanks


----------



## RachelMaria

Its so confusing isn't it - makes me mad when you think you have been doing the right thing then find out it might be the wrong thing - I suppose - to be sensible - everyone is different, so unless you have proper advice on what to take (ie because of tests etc) then stick to the regular stuff like pregnacare etc - DHEA seems to work for a lot of people, but it is a hormone and that is what we are trying to keep balanced.

Not sure I would know what to be tested for if I went to the docs though?


----------



## BECKY7

Hi mfmcmoo  mushroom mean Reishi as if you o on line and look for John Bowen and you will see it or email John and he will explain
Becky7 xx


----------



## RachelMaria

Does anyone else feel really bloody impatient with the fact that nothing seems to be happening and impatient with themselves that its all they can think about - think I am driving myself mad today!


----------



## BECKY7

Yes rachelmaria  I am sure we all feel that way  well I do anyway lol but looking forward to my next cycle and my whey to go protein arrive today and mmmmmmmm it lovely with pint of milk  and I was told to drink 2 pint of milk from CD1  so let see but I am exciting to be approved for fostering so that will keep my mind off it as well to stay away from my IPAD lolbecky7 xx


----------



## RachelMaria

Oh Wow Becky - thats great - what a lovely thing to do - when I was still single I met with social services about fostering (they had no problem with a single lady), but I just couldn't have done it financially - have spoken to DP about both fostering and adoption but he is absolutely adament it is something he does not want to do - and we both have to be on board.

I think fostering and adoption are amazing - a lot of hard work but what you get in return is priceless.

Good on you girl xxxxxxx


----------



## Krakiwi

Hello Becky7. I hope your next round of IUI goes well for you and you get some positive news  . To be honest I took DHEA because I wasn't going ahead with any interventions. My hubby said no to IVF, we had already tried IUI and it didn't work. The fertility lady I saw recommended DHEA for at least 3 months before IVF and that there were a great many stories about natural pregnancies while people were preparing for IVF (following taking DHEA). She was at the Lister. I figured I had no other options so gace it a try. She didn't say anything about risk of affecting ovulation but perhaps that was because she was kind of steering me towards stimulation with IVF so wasn't worried about that. Anyway, I guess what we all know is that we are all very different and the research into DHEA is still coming so who on earth knows . Its all so confusing and frustrating. I just want to share with people that I think it did work for me because if there was any way it helped someone else in the same situation I would want them to take that chance. 
Anyway      . I have fingers and toes crossed for you.

Lots of love and luck to all the rest of you ladies. xxx


----------



## mfmcmoo

Hi Krakiwi - I have the same thoughts as you on the DHEA debate. I am convinced that it helped, together with the other stuff I took.


----------



## quisty

Hi Rachel And Ladies

yep it sucks big time. Becky's right I'm sure we all feel like that. All I want is that secret magic ingredient. I wonder when I should give up? I'm thinking 45.... I have a year left. Do you do yoga? I start it and then stop but i was thinking as you have/had a problem with blockage maybe it can help the blood flow in that area? I'm trying to get a job in London if i get it it will mean so many more resources open to me. It would mean we'd have to leave madrid but my  Dp is fine with that thank godness. Lets see...

Rachel hope you have a lovely birthday. Becky fingers crossed for the IUI and so exciting about the fostering I would love to do that even if i have my own child... Keep us posted. Take Ladies x


----------



## quisty

Hehehe I've just noticed that most of us have younger partners I guess we're doing something right lol x


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## RachelMaria

welcome to the cougars club!


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## quisty

Hi Ladies I have a rather delicate question to ask but ask I will as I need some honest feed back.

Right here goes is anyone else worried when they have rather vigorous sex?.... I'm cringing lol The reason I ask is that both times I've been pregnant we had some good old fashioned rocking sex nothing "special" but you know it was lalala  deep shall we say  . I'm sitting here blushing on my own. Well after those times I miscarried not too long after like days at the most . Now when we're having sex I have a slight fear that I might be pregnant and i get nervous. Does anyone else feel like that? I know they say that It's fine to have normal sex which ours is i guess but still. 

The other thing is Apparently I ovulated around day 7 of a 38 day cycle but my mucus was not like egg white and now on day 15 I've got ovulation cramps and my abdomen is feeling odd. In the back of my head I keep thinking maybe I'm pregnant as my AF was only 3 days at a push which is not like me and I keep feeling a fluttering feeling in my abdomen. I don't want to do a test cos that will only confirm that I'm just being silly but even saying that is silly. Its funny I'm normally the one who's normally sensible but this thing makes even the strongest vulnerable..... I never normally think I'm pregnant thus missing the the signs of the other pregnancy one of them i thought i was seriously ill lol. 

Thanks for being there ladies it's good to know that there's somewhere to go where we can go and just be ourselves and let out our fears.     x


----------



## RachelMaria

Honey - I'm originally from Essex, so it would take a lot to embarress me!

To be honest, I think in very early pregnancy the egg etc is so small you would have to do a lot to damage it or dislodge it - I remember after my first ET with IFV I jumped off the bed when they had finished it  and then thought **** - what if it falls out - I then panicked everytime I went for a pee and thought maybe I had flushed it out.  The womb is quite well protected, and lets me honest the nearer the sperm to the entrance to the womb the better.

There are plenty of people who have lots of heavy sex and still get pregnant - so go with it and enjoy it honey xxxxxxx


----------



## quisty

You Know what If you can't rely on an essax girl to tell you straight up who can you rely on lol? 

Yeah I think I better relax on that point. I might go to the Doc's today as my abdomen has been cramping for about 5 days and as i ovulated nearly 2 weeks ago I'm not sure whats going on. 

How was your B'day?  Have a good week ladies xxx


----------



## RachelMaria

It wouldn't hust to see a doctor hun - especially if you are worried - given the DHEA I took (only 3 or 4 tablets) I think I have really mucked up my cycle so haven't got a clue where I am now - will have to wait and see when AF shows to try to get back on track.

Birthday was lovely - I live in the midlands now, so we went out with a group of friends here who are all great fun - had a few drinks, but not too many and flushed it all out yesterday with loads of fluids - so now as officailly 43 - and if you read some websites that is the end of my fertile life as it should have been (if that makes sense) - thank god there are some sites out there with poitive stories on also!


----------



## quisty

So pleased you had a good time we all deserve some time off now and again from all this... 

Do you have a monitor to test your ovulation? it might help but  i guess you have to check to see if the DHEA effects the  resullts? The only web I'm really looking at now is here as it's just too much now especially as I'll be 44 soon eekkk. Gosh i'm really putting off doing a test as i think it will confirm that i'm just being silly. hmmm. I'll keep you posted


----------



## Alfiemum28

Hi all

Havent been on here for a while, Hello quisty, like your honesty!!!  My DH prob wishes for some good of vigourous rocking lol, we seem to always assume the boring position!!!  isnt it awful that there is so many things you question yourself about!!!  when you think of all the people in the world who dont have any bother and dont seem to worry as much!!!  I am a born worrier and worry about getting up to quick afterwards, bum is propped up on a pillow after (tmi) but convinced gravity works!!!  though when I conceived my D/S 4 years ago i dont think positions was even in my mind!!!  

My natuaral BFP this month has been great!!!  but airing on side of caution, this time Im doing everything, steriods antibiotics etc!!!! reflexology to keep me sane.  I am 6+5 this friday when I get my scan and just not sure at present, I do have symptoms but no where near as bad as my prev pregnancies though maybe this is a good thing!!  I am taking each day as it comes and trying to think PMA!!!  I feel more relaxed this pregnancy and I shouldnt even be thinking it but we had decided that if we werent preg soon it was back to serum in january for DE.  I suppose that we have not come to that decision is giving me me less stress as I think everytime is my final chance.  

This time I have upped the vitamins etc and reduced alcohol etc!!  The day before I got my BFP  I got a call from my consultant to say my AMH had come back at 1.6!!!  I was gutted and cried   So there is hope out there for anyone on here who has a low AMH it can happen!!!  

I am taking each day by day and thinking positive because I know there is nothing I can do to change the outcome!!

Wishing you all sticky fairy dust xxxxx


----------



## mfmcmoo

Alfiemum - just check - not sure reflexology is so good for one during pregnancy. Seem to remember - in Thailand when I was there - they refused to do reflexology on my as I was pregnant (okay - I was a lot further on - about 6 months), but still - just check it out as I though it was supposed to bring on labour.
Good luck


----------



## quisty

Hi Alfiemum and Ladies

My mum always said if you can't talk about it you probably shouldn't be doing it.. Well with this in mind I decided to talk about everything lol not sure if that's quite what she had in mind but.... yeah we we're always in the norm position and one day I thought nope lets do something else lol. It sounds stupid but i read in a mg try putting the pillows at the end of the bed and face that way. Do you know even that little change gave us a wee extra spark. occasionally I'm even managing to stay awake long enough at night which is a tall order for me. I think he's lovin it  

Congrats on your BFP I'm going to keep everything crossed for you. It's such a wonderful feeling when you see the stick changing. Yes do check out about the reflexology as I've heard the same about that and acupuncture Let us know how you get on with your scan. Take care ladies xxx 

P.s I still haven't been to docs I figure if i am preggy then I might as well till next AF. I'm still getting cramps ohh maybe its phantom pregnancy hope not that would be very weird lol x


----------



## dillydolly

Quisty
Do you use a monitor to check you ovulation?


----------



## quisty

Hi Dillydolly

yes I used one for the first time this month It said I ovulated on day 7  or 8 I was expecting it to say  ovulation on about day  19 as my cycle is 38 days...


----------



## Chandlerino

Congrats on your BFP Alfiesmum x

Question for you lovely ladies - after another failed IVF I've started doing ov tests today and its starting to pick up the LH surge - usually have faint lines for a few days before it goes as dark as the control line on a natural cycle. I'm Cd12 - can I rely on this to be the sign of ov as I did short protocol? I did 2 cycles of long protocol before and I think from what I can remember it was a few days later than normal.

Already warned Dh I might jump on him later as just started Fifty Shades darker!


----------



## dillydolly

Quisty
Are you still testing seems as you are having pains?


----------



## RachelMaria

Hi Alfiemum - congratulations honey!!!!

Quisty - how are you managing not to do a test babes?  Very controlled - I am impressed - but also understand it must be very nerve racking!

Quisty and other ladies - I am not doing an OV chart, but am using the clearblue OPK's - so I either get a circle if not OV or a smily face if I am - I am keeping dates etc in a diary, but no charting - do you think I should do both?

I am trying to keep a PMA, but I have a real fear that my only clear tube has closed up again - I wish there was a home test for that also!


----------



## Alfiemum28

Thanks everyone!
Mfmcmoo yes I wasnt sure about reflexology but the girl I use if absolutely fab!!   she really knows her stuff and I read some articles on it and none said to avoid it.  She knows to avoid i suppose the uterus??  and really works on the rest of my emotions.  I think it is whats keeping me strangely calm at the moment.  I really do put the reflexology down to getting me pregnant as she seemed to realise something from one of my ovaries, my right one??  Friday will hopefully give us a clearer picture and I am prepared either way, getting my hcg done again today on the QT though wont get the results until thurs morn but at least it should help prepare me!!

Hugs and sticky baby dust to everyone!  xx


----------



## quisty

Hi Dillydolly RachelMaria and ladies

no I'm not still testing this month as the monitor didn't as for any however I am planing to have a busy evening if you catch my drift.... 
As far as calm nope anything but I'm just fed up with being disappointed i guess i prefer the fantasy of what if.. sad but true. 

Rachel whats a PMA? Did the docs say how it was blocked and with what? For example is it like a mucus type thing that could be helped though diet? I'm sure it's not blocked but it wouldn't do any harm to learn a few yoga moves to help the blood supply moving.....

Alfiemum it sounds like you've  got the right attitude hats off to you and I think ultimately we know what's right for our bodies we just  don't normally bother listening. 

Thinking about joining weight watchers as this weight thing is a pain in the butt.... 

Wishing that all you Lovely Ladies find a shooting star crossing your path that brings you your hearts desire. xx


----------



## dillydolly

PMA positive mental attitude....maybe!


----------



## RachelMaria

Yes - sorry positive mental attitude - the doctor thinks that both of my tubes were blocked by mucus plugs as there is no eivdence of scarring etc - however, the left tube was a bit weird - he managed to get the right tub unbloked fairly quickly but was having real trouble with the left one - he could get the wire through, but the dye wouldn't pass through - the nurse said not to worry as the dye is thicker than the wire - but if a liquid cannot get through how can an egg?  The doctor did say that sometimes the tubes have been in the same position for so long they just go back to that shape - so although he could get the wire through the tube may have 'gone back to its collapsed state.

The result was they were happy with the right one, but couldn't answer for the left one.  I don't know about diets for keeping tubes unblocked - I have heard to stay away from dairy, but then have read reports saying otherwise - and to be honest because I am trying not to eat meat I am finding it hard to stay away from cheese.  I am trying to easy nuts etc for protein.

My main concern at the moment is that the right tube may have got blocked again but there is no way of knowing unless I have another test (which I would probably have to do on the QT as DP doesn't want me to do anything else).  I have read ladies on hear that have had the procedure more than once, so given I first had it done in late September I might look at it again in January.

Does anyone have any expereince of this?

Hope everyone is OK today? xxxx


----------



## quisty

Hi Rahelmaria

From what I know and have experienced dairy, chocolate and bananas can give you more mucus. I use my voice professionally and when  I'm working i have to avoid all these things as it builds up a lot. However lemons help to clear it so i have hot water with lemon in it. Also green apples are good, the other thing you can try is having a sweet onion everyday. You when you cut an onion it makes everything run well they say it keeps it clear internally as well. It's something they do here in Spain for sinus problems etc?? you  never know it might be worth having ago.

Would you be able to see a  good nutritionist just to get guidance? As far as having another test on your body I don't want to make waves but.... it's your body and i think you have to stand up for it. Men can keep trying all there lives but we can't it seems really unfair. Is he worried about you? That maybe it's too much stress? if yes it's understandable but the ultimate decision is yours i think. Sorry if I'm talking out of turn but it's asking a lot from a woman who wants a baby as much as we do. Maybe yu could post elsewhere and find out if someone else has this problem? Maybe it's not an age thing

Other half is off to buy a preg test?? I've been trying to avoid it but i'm driving myself mad. I'm still cramping after more than a week i think..... I'm sure i'm not but. oh i hate this part...... I'll let you know xxx


----------



## RachelMaria

thanks for the advice honey - I have been speaking to my acupuncturist about nutrition, but it may be worth seeing a specialist - oh hun - good luck - I have everything crossed for you - let us know xxxx


----------



## quisty

Thanks RachelMaria Yet again I've decided to do it tomorrow........... But we have the test so. xx


----------



## Alfiemum28

Hi all

Quisty..... can I just say it all sounds good!!!!!  Goodluck for tomorrow, I believe you always know!!!  magic dust to you for tomorrow

Rachelmaria - have you ever tried reflexology  I have been getting it for the past 8 weeks and though I dont think I have any blocked tubes but it really helps balance hormone levels etc.  I do remember getting it done one week and my Reflexologist had said me that she felt a blockage had been cleared on my right ovary  I always ovulate i think on my left ovary so maybe she cleared something on my right one.  Its maybe worth looking into it as I cant rate it highly enough!!

Not sure how I am feeling today, got my hcg done again yest (though DH doesnt know) but felt I needed to prepare for my scan on Friday.  My symptoms are all over the place!!!  Ive had a sore head since monday on and off and only mild nausea setting in from time to time.  However I seem to be questionning every little symptom wondering is it good or bad but hopefully my HCG results tomo will give me more of an idea!!!!  The stress!!!!  

Baby dust to you all!!  xxx


----------



## RachelMaria

Hi Alfie mum - sounds very interesting - I have just googled it and there are lots of positive reports about it and fertility - am now hunting yellow pages to find someone local!  I know you cannot help but worry honey - but it sounds like everything is moving in the right direction - sending you hugs to help    

Quisty - am thinking of you hun and hope everything goes OK tomorrow - we need some good news! xxx


----------



## quisty

Well It was a BFN  However I still have 18 days before AF so there's still a small chance but i doubt it. Thankfully i don't feel too gutted. I've decided if nothing happens by xmas then I'm giving myself a few days off an having a drink. I haven't had a single drop in 9 months... and trust me it's hell living in Spain and not drinking wine lol. Still cramping so I'll go to DR tomorrow I guess hmmmm. Take care Ladies x


----------



## RachelMaria

Oh honey - I am so sorry     - no drink for 9 months - what a good girl you are!  I am definately having a few drinks at Christmas - am cooking dinner so will need something to keep me calm and I always cook better with some vino inside!

Are you coming home for Christmas or will you be in Spain?


----------



## quisty

Thanks Rachel. I might not have drunk but I have put on weight hmmmmm lol I'm just looking at the fasting diet that was in The Mail my sis told me about it. The good thing is that it stimulates the growth hormone which as adults we are lacking it's supposed to help with fertility.. who knows. 
And yep I'm coming home for just over 2 weeks and then heading up to the highlands for the New Year where my brother lives, can't wait. 

Xmas dinners and a wee tipple is def though I must admit i am partial to a bucks fizz for xmas breakfast. I can Imagine it's been that long since i had a drink I'll be gone by one lol. I had a dream last night that the test would be inconclusive... When i did it for real it said the test line should have  appeared immediately well it took 10 mins to show very faintly...  so it seemed to be inconclusive.. I guess i'm just clutching at those straws again...  perhaps next time I'll dream of the lottery numbers win millions and then pay for us to have the best treatment lol  you never know. 

ok off to eat pulses and brown rice. oh the joys of it all. Have fun out there ladies xxx


----------



## RachelMaria

Honey - I'm with you on the weight score - I just cannot seem to shift it - Last night I said right I am going to eat in the day (carrot sticks, humous, and some wholemeal bread) and not eat when I get home (ie after 6pm at night) - didn't really last long, but I did only have a few crackers.

I have taken your advice however, and starting from this morning I am now drinking hot water with lemon in it and I must say I actually quite like it!  
Bucks Fizz for breakie - sounds divine - not sure I would get out of bed though - are you sure your not from Essex?  Maybe an Essex girl at heart?And Scotland for the New Year - sounds superb!  Not sure what we are doing for New Year yet as one of my best friends who we usually meet up with lost her mum only three months ago, so we are playing it by ear and will be on hand to do whatever she wants to do.



What day in your Cycle are you babes - maybe it was just a littel early for the test?


----------



## quisty

Yeah i like the lemon thing it feels healthy some how. The thing is about weight I know what I need but can't seem to find the will to do it but i need to get it from somewhere. You might get out of bed but not sure you'd have any dinner cooked It can be touch n go lol. The holidays are hard the 1st year in loosing someone never nice.

I'm on day 20 so still have 18 days to go hmmm. And the other half just told me the the test was inconclusive as it has to show within 5 mins and  it didn't ..... i'm going to try and just forget about it, but man i feel like a beached whale so bloated which is not like me the I have a very healthy waist line lol.


----------



## BECKY7

Oh quisty  I am so so sorry and are you sure your not too early as day 20 is far too early eh  and wow no drink for 9 month  that would have drive me up the wall lol and I have alway drink hot water with lemon for the last 2 year to clean everything out before I start my breakie and decaf coffee but I still slowly putting on weight  aghhhhh  I would love not to eat anything all day and just have diner and pudding but I needed the protein for my egg to have a baby  so I am so so looking forward to not eat after I have a baby  hee hee .
Becky7 xx


----------



## quisty

HI Becy7 and ladies

Yes I am too early but I was thinking that I could have been more advanced as my AF was so short and I had been feeling off before it... Now i'm going tojust wait and see what happens next.... I tell you a love my gorg so it was really hard but I figured i needed to give 100% to at least one thing lol. Though I don't look it I am actually clinically obese Ohh the pain of saying it eeekkk. I've always been big But I'm in entertainment so I dance and throw myself around well but. Yeah I also haven't had caffeine in 10yrs. It's amazing that some things I can stop I also used to smoke  but the diet ohh that's hard.  I think for me food is so connected to emotions and a sense of well being that it's hard. I don't eat badly but I think my portions are man sized plus I work a lot from home so don't move around much Unless I'm performing. 

Today I was Imagining a lovely retreat for us ladies on here and our partners just somewhere to relax and do some classes and etc How nice would that be and of course it would be free or very little just covering expenses. Nice thought. Think I'm going to do the xmas lottery hehehe.

Have a lovely evening Girls


----------



## Alfiemum28

Hi All

Quisty so sorry its a BFN   been there so many times but a new month brings new hopes.  This mn i tested from 10 dpo and didnt get a postive until 14dpo!!!  so maybe there is still hope!!

Loving all your comments re food and drink.  I also have gone without drink but not quite 9 mn!!!  Well done!!  a good friend of mine is a gynae doc and he basically tells me to drink lol!!!  my consultant who specialises in miscarriage keeps telling me to stop wasting money on tests etc and buy a good bottle of wine to relax!!!!!  An peny in serum who I saw in October told me the same that drink wont spoil my fertility chances and not to let it take over my life!!!  which i know I have!  I do mostly try and eat heathly and since joining slimming world a year ago I feel far better!  Slimming world is so easy and it def does work! I still have my crisps etc but now in moderation.  But when it comes to christmas I am with you Rachelmaria, sherry in one hand wine in the other its to days of sipping and eating lol!!  

I went for my scan on friday i should be 6+4 but scan showed a 6 wk sac and nothing else.  Consultant is not worried (lucky him)!!!  so back on Thursday morning for another scan and should know either way    Trying to remain positive and do have pregnancy symptoms ie sore boobs and running to toilet buy nausea left me Thursday.  I remember when my last preg symptoms left I just knew that the 9wk scan would be bad news and it was!!  But trying to think PMA, my reflexologist says my hormones are at such a level state that that is the reason i feel quite good!!  Its hard not to worry when my last preg exactly a year ago i was going through the exact same thing, and i was always a few days behind.     with the prednisolone, antibiotics, clexane, asprin and folic acid surely its got to work!!!  

But today is saturday the sun is shining and I am going to take my DS to the park.  He is 4 and so excited re xmas that I dont want him feeling my aprehension.  Out for tea at a friends tonight but driving so at least I can use that as an excuse for not drinking!!!  

Hope you all have a nice weekend and think PMA  (listen to me, should take my own advice)!!!

hugs xxxx


----------



## quisty

Good morning to all you Beautiful Ladies out there

Alfiemum you're right there still might be a chance as I testes on day 9dpo and now my boobs are starting to get a lot more tender I guess in this case what ever will be will be...

I'd love a drink what can I say. My Dp (I never know if i'm getting the abbreviations right) Is a veggie and doesn't drink so he'll take some convincing on the booze front lol.  However Xmas and new year is my time lol 

Hon I know it's really tough and I feel for you. sometimes I think ignorance is bliss but those days have gone it meant in some ways less worry. Like you said trying to stay positive and maybe do some sort of guided meditation might help.
I did one on my own once where Imagined a hill in a sort of forest it was really lovely. Along the path i imagined all the woman in my life dead and alive giving me gifts to help me on my journey. My nieces  who are in their 30's were sharing fertility etc my mother was at the top sharing motherhood. And my Boyfriend was at the side running along being there with me on the whole journey. At the end I was crying my eyes out but felt really good .......

I keep hearing about Penny maybe I should see about trying to come over and see her as I have no own other than you ladies giving me advise hmmmm

It is lovely out some I'm off out later. I've got to get all spruced up tonight and see lots of friends so looking forward to that. And I love xmas so best start thinking about pressies I come from a huge family 7 siblings and they have children. One of these years I'll be more organized and start buying in January lol.

Going to put some tunes on now and bop around the living room for a bit hehehe. 

Alfiemum sendng you positive thought and love. xx

Ladies until next time xx


----------



## RachelMaria

Hi Ladies

Saw my little bri at the weekend - he has 4 kiddies ranging from 18 to 7 and I love getting together with them - the little one had set up a sweetie shop in her bedroom and would only let me have a skittle once I had paid her 1p! She stuck to it as well - little heathen!

Everyone keeps saying she looks like me and it does make me wonder what a mixture of me and DP will look like and will I ever find out?  My PMA has taken a bit of a bashing over the weekend - but my mum fed me loads of lovely veggie stew she had made especially for me - love the woman to death!

DP's mum lives with us - my mum and dad are divorced but are absolute soul mates  and still spend a lot of time with each other - we were talking about all living together in future (if we can all afford/find the right sort of place) hhhhmmmm I think that they might have made their mind up that I will not end up with kiddies so think I might end up with adult kids!  would love to suprise them with a little one on that score.

If only I had a crystal ball.........................(well I did see a medium and am hoping what he said comes true).....


........have also booked for me and my mum and dad to go and see physic sally in february also - so hopefully I might get a message there - if anyone can get pick tv (on freeview) she is on every weekday mornings, so I only caught her on a day off work - honestly watch her she is great - but have a box of tissues to hand!

I am certain am getting AF signs... want to hit something and then cry about it...............only leave one more chance for me in 2012 - sorry does that sounds depressing? - stupid hormones!


----------



## RachelMaria

Dont need a crystal ball - AF arrived today - 2 days early!


----------



## dillydolly

Don't usually post on here but not sure where else to post!

This cycle I am going to drink beer, caffeinated coffee and chocolate. My AF is due Christmas Day ish so I am going to have month of normality......

I have also just read about the 'royal baby'.... It is good news for them.....I was told I was too thin by my IVF specialist.......Kate is so much more skinny than me and she managed it......

I am signing this post off from  bitter, twisted, woe is me and grumpy me...... Boo hisssssssss....


----------



## BECKY7

Me too dilly dolly as I was so surprise she got pregnant that quick knowing how skinning she is  but I think she eat proteins only  and I was told like you how skinning I am to get pregnant so I have put on 2 stone and I find it hard to lose 7lb nw  aghhhhh lol and I too am drinking wine and coffee  and mayb I should start smoking too cos I pack up 4 year ago lol
Becky7 xx


----------



## dillydolly

Becky 

What's your BMI? 

I know lots of people on here have probs losing weight but I am probably the opposite!


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## BECKY7

Oh I have no idea as I am 5'10 and weight 11.4 and before I start all this rubbish journey 5 year ago I weight 9.7 then 4 year ago I pack up smoking and weight 10. then 4 year later I weight 11.4  All my freind think I look better now then weight 9.7  so who know  but I know I love being 9.7 lol
Becky7 xx


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## dillydolly

Becky

Your BMI is about 22.7 when you were 9.7 it was 19.1! The clinics like to see 20 at least! You are better being 22.7!

My BMI is 20. I eat chips, pizza, cakes and biscuits. Don't know how Kate has managed it! Must be special royal sperm!


----------



## quisty

Rahelmaria I'm so sorry hon  It's so disappointing I know. I suppose that the DHEA is effecting your cycle? Have you asked anyone about that? It might take a while to adjust to a new boost in hormones and As you know it takes 3 months for it to show up in your eggs... I wish there were more specialist about who could advise on DHEA...

Dillydolly I say enjoy Come xmas I'm going to have what ever I want until I come back to Spain. I'm really craving wine and port and good old xmas food.

I have a saying when you're down you might as well enjoy it otherwise it's just miserable so I eat, drink and watch crappy feel good moves and I make a point of telling the other half i'm grumpy so let me enjoy it lol. So be down but enjoy it, it likes having time. xxx


----------



## BECKY7

Ha ha dilly dolly yes that is true and she is still 10 year younger ten us too might have something to do with it too
Becky7 xx


----------



## quisty

Hi ladies i've just watched a really interesting documentary  by the BBC on youtube Horizon programme Eat, Fast And Live Longer. It doesn't talk about fertility but it does talk about Growth hormones and the aging process. The evidence seems to be that if you do a fast on 2 days a week it can have dramatic effects on the body....... It's not for everyone but it sound doable so I'm going to try. On the other days you can eat what you like. If it sounds interesting find the link on you tube by typing in the title above. Im going to wait for this AF if it comes and then do it from there on.... I'll keep you posted.
I can't afford to get any blood test but if you can it might be worth trying it for 5 weeks and doing a  before and after? 

Hope you're all doing ok  

xxx


----------



## RachelMaria

Hi Quisty - thats really strange - someone else has mentioned fasting to me recently - hhmmmmm not sure I could cope - but it might be worth a try - not today thought - out for T with friends tonight and might even have a glass of vino!  As I say to DP, anothing goes when bleeding!


----------



## Alfiemum28

Hi all

Thanks everyone for your kind messages, bad news this morning at my scan, sac hasnt really grown since last friday and still measuring 6 wks, doc thought he saw a fetal pole but could be a blood clot so have to go back wed.  But he is 90% sure its bad news and I know myself it is!!!

I am ok as I think I have got hardened to this, it was the 5th December last yr I had a D&C.  This time I did everything right and was on the ball taking meds.  I was always concerned I implanted late as got my BFP much later than I usually do.  I just dont know where to go from here.

Do I now need to consider level 2 ytests as there is obviously something wrong!!  Or is it just my age and eggs but surely that cant be the case every time!! or is it my DP...... is so confusing!!!!  has anyone had these done and if so was it worth it??

So back to trying again!!!  Down but not out!!!  thinking of starting resihi.... any advice, also John Bower has anyone any advice or used him  What the max Q10 you can take  back to the mindfield of vitamins etc!!

Loads of baby dust to you all


----------



## blondedolphin

Lots of people at work are doing that diet after watching the horizon programme and have lost weight, but my friend looked into it and apparently you're not supposed to try it if you're trying to conceive.


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## BECKY7

Alfiemum28  am so so sorry to hear your news  it is not nice to know eh but good to hear your not out yet.

I just started to take resihi and cordyceps from John Bowen 2 1/2 week ago and whey to go protein and 400/600 coq10  and I am having my DIUI next week so let see

Blonddolphin  A lady on born 1 every mintues said she spend 3 year trying and decided to do fasting and got pregnant quickly  so who know  maybe just cut something out eh

Becky7 xx


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## Alfiemum28

hI becky 7

thank-you for your kind words xx

You have had a hard time of it also    we must get great stength when we get older lol!!

Do you just contact John Bower and he tells you what you need (sorry for my ignorance) whats the website??  It coming up to xmas and I am going to take it easy but start as many vitamins as I can!!  

Hugs and good luck on your IUI xxx


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## BECKY7

Hey alfiemum28  yes just email him and this is his email address  [email protected]  and you can ask him his website as i forgot the name f he website  all in all for 2 different tablets it cost me £200  so not cheap  but he is lovely and very helpful and you have have it 30 day before IVF or IUI  and I just came on 6 day early so I have upped extra tablet  

Becky7 xx


----------



## mfmcmoo

Hi All

It's very very early days - but I just did a home pregnancy test and it was a BFP! I still have to go for blood tests etc to confirm that all is happening, but couldn't wait to share this with you all so that you may be inspired. This is after following my supplements list for 2 months http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=294994.0
Wanted to add - Krakiwi - I also took the Chasteberry full strength last month and FELT myself ovulate too (I had not really taken the full dosage before, as my cycle was pretty regular and didn't want to mess it up, but never knew when I was ovulating, and after reading your post - I thought - I'll try it for a month or two at full dose and see if I can feel a difference - so thanks for that). 
Good luck ladies.
PS - will update my signature when things are a bit more certain


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## quisty

Yahoooo mfmcmoo 

How exciting I bet you can barely contain yourself i'm keeping  my fingers and everything else crossed for you.

Alfiemum I am so sorry hon. It such a unfair blow when you've worked so hard for it but good to hear that you're not about to give up.

Well for me a starnge month of boobs hurting continuously and cramping for most of the time so i thought maybe..... But no however my cycle came back to 28 d which has happened in a very long time. I was expecting it to be around 38 so maybe things are improving lets see

Ladies I wish you much luck xxxx


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## RachelMaria

Alfiemum - I am so sorry honey - I remember the first scan and then having to wait for a confirmation scan  - it was murder in one sense, but it also gave me time to prepare myself - but hold in there honey - its not over till the fat lady (that would be me) sings and that aint happening today - honestly honey am keeping everything crossed for you for tomorrow xxxx   

MFMCMOO - fantastic news honey - am thrilled for you - give us all hope that this can happen    

Quisty - I am so sorry babes - we are in the BFN club this month - but it is good news that your cycle is back to 28 days - now you can plan your heavy sessions with DP!!!!!!!

Love to you all xxxx


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## Alfiemum28

Yeh for the older ladies MFMCMOO !!!!!!!!!!!!  Well done, so happy for you!! am sure you are super excited!!

Thanks for your kind words Rachelmaria & Quisty xxxx  

I am seeing my consultant tomo, but I know the news is bad.  I basically stopped all meds last Thursday and all preg symtoms have gone, I think it was the prednisolone and Progesterone that was making me feel preg.  Basically I implant but the embryo has slow or no development!!!  So maybe an immune problem as it surely cant be my eggs the last 5 times!!!  If its sperm then we will have to see.  Had a few tears but it all seems so distant now!  Peny from serum calling me friday for a telephone chat (she is so nice) basically to discuss next steps!!  I really think I need to do my level 2 (chigago bloods) as there is definately a problem.  No sign of m/c yet so want to get in for a D&C asap!!!  though probably be monday!!  Just want it over so I can start trying again!!  But I think 2013 will be our last year, after 5 m/c we have got to call it a day sometime and accept it might never happen.  But its the unknown which is so damn frustrating!!

Hugs to you all xxxxx


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## RachelMaria

I don't know why but I have an awful suspicion (or maybe I am just getting paranoid) that I am not going to ovulate again this month - I only took three DHEA tablets last month and did not ovulate but did have a period two days early - so I should be OV this week (by latest Saturday) - I know there are loads of things that can affect it, but I don't feel partiularly stressed or another - other than the usual concerns etc.

I am worried my age is catching up with me - how long would you leave it (if I don't ovulate this month) before seeking advice on Clomid etc?


----------



## BECKY7

Rachel  do you take evening primrose as that seem to do the trick
Becky7 xx


----------



## RachelMaria

Hi Becky I used to take it but read somewhere that you shouldn't take it in the second half of your cycle - which owrried me so I stopped taking it - given I am so close do you think it would be safe to take some now?


----------



## BECKY7

Yes that is normal as normally I take it for the 1st 2 week then stop at ovulate then start again on my 1st day of my cycle and I alway get EWCM  but since I start taking clomid 5 month ago I stop getting EWCM and also I think 1000 vit C dried up EWCM too. It doesn't hurt to start till you get pain or EWCM or opk
Becky7 xx


----------



## RachelMaria

OK - will give it a go - thanks - even though I am from Essex I should be able to remember to stop taking it during second half - what a dumbo!

My reflexologist seems a little concerns that I am taking so many vitamins and suggested I get a full blood test at the doctors just to see if I am low as it were on anything - did anyone else do this before taking vitamins etc?


----------



## BECKY7

Ha ha I know what you mean  and don't worry about reflexologist say  and yes I had full blood test not because of all the vitamin  just to look for anything which come up underactive thyroid so I take med for that.
Becky7 xx


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## RachelMaria

Good lord an underactive thyroid and you still manage to stay sim - I need some of your genes girlfriend!


----------



## RachelMaria

That should say slim by the way!


----------



## BECKY7

Haha oh I wish  cos I felt so fat since my treatment in 2009  so I can't wait to go on diet or stop eating after I have a baby lol  I felt the med for thyroid seem to do the trick cos I really put on so much weight that I cannot seem to shift etc then doctor said about blood test  so make sense  so why don't you ask your doctor for full blood test.
Becky7 xx


----------



## dillydolly

Rachelmaria, how do you know you haven't ovulated? Did you  do ovulation sticks or have any pains? 


I ask because my CBFM still hasn't given me a peak but dip sticks got darker lines

I had definate pains the other day

I did the dip sticks late afternoon but CBFM in morning

Do you think I have actually ovulated or not? Why would I have pains if it wasn't ovulation?


----------



## BECKY7

Hey dilly dolly  if you had Ian then you must be ovulating regard to what CBM say  so start jiggy to be on safe side  
Becky7 xx


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## dillydolly

Lol Becky 
Not sure what you mean I think your phone has changed  a word it says Ian!


----------



## BECKY7

Sorry dilly dolly  Ian meant pain  so god luck
Becky7 xx


----------



## dillydolly

I got a peak this morning!! 

Wasn't expecting that as I feel no pains and I feel like EWM has dried up !

Weird!!


I did cheap dip test last night and it was paler than past few days. It all so confusing!!


If you have PCO does a cyst feel like ovulation or does it occur at different times??


Thanks


Ps becky how was orea breakfast?


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## BECKY7

Hey brekie in orea is ok  nothing special as had coffee and toasts with jam  but I prefer the orea hotel to penzion hotel
Becky7 xx


----------



## RachelMaria

Hi Dilly Dolly (love the name by the way) - well I was getting some pains yesterday but I really don't know if I am that in tune with my body to know if it was OV or not - I use the clearblue OPK - so I should just get a smiley face when I OV which I haven't yet - so I don' know whether my mind is playing tricks on me in relation to the pains etc - wish this could be a little easier - don't know whether I am coming or going.

Becky - are you away now?  If so am keeping everything crossed for you.

Hope you other ladies are doing OK - Quisty - you broken your bed yet? xxxxx


----------



## Alfiemum28

Hi All

Sorry I have been a bit awol!!!  but have been on an emotional rollercoaster for the past 2 weeks and  its definately all over now.

I have posted this on another thread so sorry if you have read this.

two weeks ago I went for my scan and consultant told me to come back in a week (last week for another scan) but he was 85% sure I had miscarried again as there didnt really seem to much changing at my scans.  My symptoms had stopped and well I personally had accepted it was over.  I went out that Friday had a bottle of wine and accepted it was over, stopped all meds and immediately no longer felt pregnant, I no longer felt stressed and was pretty much relaxed for the next week.  I then Went back last Thursday for another scan and confirmation and book a D&C and was so shocked .... feutus and heartbeat seen though only measuring 6+1.. which was about approx 2 weeks behind so didnt get hopes up, but secretly thought that I had made it and scans where just dating wrong as I know this can happen in early scans.  I felt pretty much relaxed and keep saying to myself this is it I am going to make it!!!Had another scan yesterday and I am devasted, no heartbeat, measuring 6+6 so basically feutus has stopped growing in past 2 days........... gutted, we really thought this time will all the meds the problem was sorted!!!!!  I am so sad and feel down, I really dont know what is happening.

This is the 3rd time this has happened in 2 years, each time my dates are wrong and I see a heartbeat get my hopes up but the feutus stops growing between 7-9 weeks.  My consultant is so puzzled and has basically said he doenst think the nhs can help me anymore as they cant offer anymore than they are.  they are going to do a biopsy on the feutus and check chromosones, though D&C is not till next friday (they wanted this friday but its my DS first nativity play and I wasnt going to miss it for the world).

My world has fell apart again, I can do anymore than I am doing....... why?? its going to be a difficult xmas and you just want to shut yourself away but you got to put a face on for everything, I just want to say to people Ive had another miscarriage and am feeling sad but its such a taboo subject we dont talk about it!!  though my close friends know.

I have sent an email to peny In Serum who is great and has been a good support and asked her for advice, should I get the remaining few thrombophilia tests done  I have had so many tests and all is clear but something is stopped the feutus from deveolping.  She has suggested a hysterscopy but I have one of these in January this year and all was great!  She is also puzzled and doesnt think she can do much more due to the rare nature of my problem, I know this is not he thread but does anyone have any suggestions.  She has maybe suggested donor eggs and I am happy with that but I suppose I dont want to waste the money if its going to turn out the same way!!  but I know the level 2 tests are expensive so do i just use the money and try donor eggs........

Sorry for this long post but I am so lost at the moment      there is definately a pattern as to what is happening so you would think it would be easy to find a solution

Hugs to all you xxxxx


----------



## dillydolly

Alfiemum

I am sorry you have had such an unlucky time and don't know what to say really but didn't want to leave you post unanswered

I guess you should wait for biopsy results and see what Penny says. Maybe if you can find out it it's an egg issue, or a sperm issue or a maintaining pregnancy issue then you can work out what to do. 

Seems as you have already got a son then maybe it's not a maintaining a pregnancy issue. Did penny suggest a Hysteroscopy? I see she suggested donor eggs maybe that's the way forward for you

Enjoy the nativity and Christmas even though I know you will be sad there's a new year ahead with plenty of options!


----------



## quisty

Dear alfiemum

I am so sorry you must be gutted beyond belief. I really can't advise about tests etc as I haven't been able to have any however I guess the questions are 1 is it the egg itself? or the sperm or the womb? I was wondering if your eggs would work in someone else I have no clue about these things. 

I don't know what to say except I'm so sorry. I wish you this new year brings you joy and love x


----------



## quisty

Hi all 

I was just wondering if I am the only one who doesn't have any children? I have 2 family members who are pregnant and of course I'm happy for them but I'm genuinely starting to feel that I've missed the boat. I wish I could get some tests but we're so broke I can't even get any vits at the moment. Spain is not the country to live in when yourself employed and there's a global crisis... 

Well it's the festive season and after 9 months of no alcohol I can't wait to get to London on 23rd and have a lovely glass of port to start of the season......  
Ladies I hope you all have merry Festive season.

Wishing we all find an extra special gift from santa this year. xxx


----------



## binky47

Hello Ladies! HI!  Have been following this thread for some time but nothing exciting to report for ourselves.

Alfie-Mum, So sorry to hear your news. Gutted for you! Sending you    Look, I don't know if this is something you would consider, but had you thought about Chinese medicine? Although what has happened is really terrible, one of the positives is that you are obviously able to fall pregnant in the first place.  A colleague of mine from work had the exact same problem as you, she could fall pregnant but had lots of miscarriages quite early on.  In the end she went to the local chinese medecine people and she had acupunture and had to drink what she calls a vile herbal concoction every day, but when she then fell pregnant, this combination helped her to hold on to the baby.  (vile concoction drinking continued throughout pregnancy) Finally she carried a baby to term and now has a healthy one-year old son, and very bonny he is too.  I mean, I know there are no guarantees, but it's maybe worth a thought?

Unfortunately for us the situation is more complicated because of DH's sperm.  Nearly 6 months of acupuncture  have yielded no discernible improvement and AF has been arriving with astonishing regularity.  Now that I'm already 42 we have some horrible decisions to make.  at our next appt later this month we get to find out whether my hormone levels are good enough that the local hospital would consent to let us have IVF (the kind you have to pay for), assuming I can get my weight down to the required level.  So not looking forward to being patronised again and being referred to as one of the consultants "older ladies" and having my weight scrutinised when in fact the problem is with DH sperm.  Having really put off any major decisions until this appointment, we will then have to decide whether to do private ISCI, or donor sperm IUI or just give up altogether... Any advice?  I don't know which way to go!  DH would just do whatever makes me happy!



Binky


----------



## dillydolly

Binky

I wouldn't give up!

See what they say and if you don't like it get a second opinion

Yeah you may have to lose weight or go for a donor option but hey you don't know till you try!

I got lucky once and have a son who will be 5 in a few days. I did just get lucky I don't know how it happened! 

Since then nothing and I have tried everything for another natural pregnancy! Everything! Lol

I obviously blame crap sperm as it can't possibly be me, my low AMH or my age! 

My rebellious Christmas binge of real coffee and coors light should stop now but I will of course have to wean myself of both gradually as surely cold turkey will led to a caffeine deprived headache which would be detrimental to conceiving naturally!


----------



## binky47

Thanks Dilly Dolly!  you brought a smile to my face!

Am definitely trying to stay positive and not let the dream of having a child elude me/us.  Who knows, perhaps the acupunturist can make it all work.  I was doing well with the weight loss before Christmas but have been quite naughty for the last month, and there are still some Christmas goodies left in the house.  I think I"m going to chuck everything out at the weekend and go cold turkey!  AF has arrived so no worries about headaches for a week or so, anyway. (tummy ache is another matter...)

Will take on board the information at the next appt but really if we decide to go for it we would go private anyway, as success rates for women my age are particularly poor at Kingston/Roehampton.  Have just found a clinic that is reasonably local and offers low-stimulation IVF/ISCI and is also cheaper than most, with high success rates, so would consider that maybe.  Docs are quite optimistic about my hormones (for an "older lady") so maybe donor sperm would work for us?

Still hoping upon hope that it can happen naturally without any of that crap, though...

Good luck with the gradual detox!  I haven't bothered with caffeine for years (gave it up for a diet a long time ago and just never went back) Now if I have it I go into overdrive like the Duracell bunny but on speed!  Had a large real coffee a few months ago by mistake and after suffering for several hours (I felt fine, I must say) DH did ask me could I please stop talking!!!! Will certainly be enjoying a glass of wine with a girlfriend tonight, however...

Wishing everybody lots of baby dust!

B


----------



## RachelMaria

Hello Ladies

Just wanted to pop on and say hello after my extended Xmas Break - unfrotunately back to work today - and another BFN in December - leed off about that, but did have a lovely Christmas with family - how was everyone else's?

Quisty - I'm with you babes - no kiddies yet and me and DP have started to talk about our plan B given he won't do another round of IVF - trying to remain positive! OPK did not pick up again in December so I am pretty sure I have not ovulated for the last two months which is really worrying - I think I will see what happens this month and then try to see the Doctor again.

Love to you all xxxxx


----------



## Alfiemum28

Hi all

Happy new year to all us older mummies!!!  lol, mind you I do feel about 100 at the moment!!!

Binky dont give up hope!! its never to late!!  you are lucky to have a supportive DH, mine is great also, he just puts up with my ideas!! Hi to everyone else xxx

I have now had my D&C, yuk again!!  this time i took the flu the day I had it so has been a terrible start to the year!!  But not going to give up yet.  My plans for 2013 are that this is going to be my last year of trying for another sibling!!  the past 2.5 years have been tough and each time heartache.  I just dont know why my pregnancies dont progress anymore and becouase no one can say whether its egg, sperm or immune then I fell I am stabbing in the dark!!  But back on daily vitamins as is DH, the binge drinking has stopped again lol and caffine cut out!!  I am hoping to go back to serum at the end of the month for an acqascan to see if peny can see anything and then discuss donor eggs!!  It whether I should spend another £1500 on more blood tests or just forget about them and do donor eggs to try another option.

Either way within the next few weeks I will be ready to do it all again.  Though must admit that this time I am exhausted and its so hard to know where to turn to, in NI there are no private clinics that specialise in investigations.

Anyway, happy new year to you all and thank you for your support in the past few months.  Looking forward to some nice baby news!!!!


----------



## dillydolly

Alfiemum
What has penny rec re tests seems as you already have had a successful pregnancy?

Also what recommendations does penny give re alcohol, caffeine and diet?

I would email her but saving myself till next week as DP is having some test Thursday and so will have a real reason to email her rather thn just my usual stalking her emails!!


----------



## Alfiemum28

LOL dillydolly

So you stalk her to lol!!!!  I sometimes be emailing her and trying to find a reason why!!  I think its becuase unlike other consultants I have dealt with she replies back and you feel that she does genuinely care!!  She replied to a email yest saying she is going to make 2013 the year I bring home a baby, I near cried!!!

Peny has recommended and acqascan, so going in 2-3 wks to get this done.  She doesnt really recommend anything else at the mo??  though I might email DR E in athens and see if he can maybe do a test or two when I am out??  Peny told me to have wine if I want it and so does my consultant lol as they feel to much pressure is put on people to be "good"  I have been drinking decaf for around 2 years now and only really have caffine maybe once a wk!!  As for the drink lol I do tend now to only have a glass or 2 once a mn (though did have quite a lot of it over xmas) but off it again now for next few mn!!  Diet - peny hasnt recommended anything but I am thinking of going gluten free (though havent told DH as he would think i am bonkers) but worth a try.  Just need to figure out what I can and cannot eat!!!  My BMI is good but also going to try and get more fit!!  another crazy idea but I really am going to try everything so that when I get donor eggs I have gave it my best shot!!  (as i tuck into an iced finger) lol......


----------



## RachelMaria

Hi Ladies - hope your all OK?

OK - made a decision - If I do not ovulate this month (which will be month 3) then I am going to see a private doctor I have seen before about another HSG test (to see if my right tube is still open) then see if I can get a prescription for Clomid.

Has anyone had any experience of taking this?


----------



## quisty

HI Ladies and happy new year to all

Rachelmaria Fingers crossed and hope you ovulate this month BIG TIME. HAre you still taking the DHEA? How's it going with it?  My flippin clear blue monitor keeps saying"clean me clean me" And when i respond it's still saying the same thing hmmm so I didn't even test it last month. 

Sooo I enjoyed my xmas drinking and eating 1 sip of wine after not drinking for 9 months and my head was spinning... talk about a cheap date lol. It was good to be home with all the family we have 2 babies due this year.... Well I'm back to no drinking I'm pleased to say as I could really feel the effects of the grogg. My waist line has shot up so I started walking again today in the countryside. I'm not sure what the future holds but no one does so My plan is to get fit. i'm also going to try the 5/2 diet lets see.

Ohh I also just received a CD from Julia Idichova it's her Imagery one. It's supposed to help you unclear things in your thinking and body and help you to find what you need to do.... i'll give it ago and let you know what it's like. I Have a spare copy of it so if anyone would like it let me know. My partner forgot that it had been delivered so I wrote saying mine had arrived and they sent another one. PM if you'd like it or I can send you the MP3. This fertility journey already costs an arm an a leg so I¡m happy to share when i can.

Ladies a question The only test I've had was an FSH test over a year ago my level was 38 I think. I would like to get some more tests I  believe there's not anything medically wrong other than my age. Though not 100% on that. is it worth getting mineral tests or more  bloods done? I'm not working with any doctor here so I get most of my guidance from you.

Ok Ladies until next time.     x


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## RachelMaria

Hi Quisty

Glad you had such a lovely time at Christmas xxx  Well I got really down this weekend as I sort of talked myself into the fact that I wasn't going to OV - lo and behold got a smiley face on the old pee stick this morning - so DP was woken up in a lovely fashion at 6.30am with me doing a victory dance round the bedroom and then jumping on him!  Not sure he will recover before going to work!

In terms of testing I would suspect that the FSH is probably the most important one, but it might be worth getting some general bloods done to see if you are low in anything like iron, vit C etc.  I only took three of the DHEA - may not be connected but I stopped ovulating adter I took them - I have heard other ladies say to get your DHEA levels checked before you take it and others say it would be low (at our age) anyway - so really don't know on that one.xxxx


----------



## A Better Year

Hi ladies, am checking in here as we just got started again after our loss last November. Had been bleeding since then, only stopped a few weeks ago then I had my first period since getting pregnant for the first time ever last year. 

I'm now on HGH, DHEA and Metformin (as in my sig) and just   now hoping for the best. 

One thing is I have checked whatever I need to check about whether or not I should be taking DHEA.

I've just started taking it again, 2x25mg in the am, 1x25mg in the pm..

Here's to 2013 being a better year for all of us.


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## RachelMaria

Hi a better year - so sorry to hear about your loss honey - and welcome us to eau naturel girls!

I am really on the fence about DHEA - some women rave about it - I have seen some posts that say you should get those hormone levels checked before taking it - it may not be connected at all but I only took three pills a couple of months ago and didn't ovulate for two months - could have been anything really but it really worried me - the bottle I have also says not to take if you are trying to get pregnant.  Another post I saw was from a lady that said that her consultant advised that at our age (I hate that bloody saying) that DHEA levels are low anyway so it cannot hurt - very confusing!


----------



## Moominmum

Hi,

I have been following this thread as I am in the same position as you lot...

*RachelMaria*: Re DHEA and "our age" - I am not sure if we mean the same post, but I have read a similar (then at least) post and the same consultant told me to not take DHEA as "that is not where my problem is". I have not had DHEA levels checked but that was based on the response to our failed tx. I was at the time OLDER than the person who wrote the post and who had been told to take DHEA due to her age. So what do I want to say with this? That it is inconclusive. I have bought DHEA but it is still in its packaging. I have read all the good stuff about it but also all the negative stuff and I don't know what to believe... For the time being I am staying out of DHEA but am taking a whole other lot of pills...

Moominmum


----------



## RachelMaria

HI Moominmum

I'm with you - I brought a whole load of vitamins and other pills etc - but without understanding if I am low on anything I could be upsetting my 'natural balance' more than helping it!  I have decided to hold off on everything and just keep taking the pregnacare which hopefully has a sensible balance of everything that I need.

I know a lot of ladies swear by the pill cocktails they are taking but with the OV scare I have just had I thought it best to start and remain with the basics for now.


----------



## Moominmum

*RachelMaria* 

I was told that Pregnacare and Vit D would suffice. However I have added other things too, but nothing that impacts OV (as it is already very regular) or that can be "bad" long term...

Baby dust to all


----------



## RachelMaria

Well I am not sure 2013 has got off to such a great start for me - started to get sore boobs on Sunday which is a pretty sure sign for me that AF is on its way (due Sunday) - after such a high when I finally ovulated I am back on the old rollercoaster of 'oh my god I am 43 al the stats are against me' to 'well some ladies have it happen naturally at 43' - to blaming myself about the fact that I was a smoker, to blaming myself about not meeting 'the right person' until I was past it fertility wise - depending which web site you read of course - then getting fed up with my own negativity! 

What makes it worse is that I would have been due this week if my one and only IVF embie had stuck..... still gutted.......am trying to think of all the things I could do if we don't have kids but then fed up becuase I have to think about it - AAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH

Hope you movely ladies are having a better Monday than I

Love to you all xxxxx


----------



## blondedolphin

RachelMaria

I know what you mean about trying to think of all the great things you could do if you don't have children, its like life is on hold, but I can't quite give up on the idea of a child of my own, and everytime I think about giving up on it and imagining all the travelling and amazing hobbies I'm going to take up I eventually become depressed about the lack of child bit. 
It's my 43rd birthday today and I'm going to make a snowman and have lunch with wine and forget about it for the day. 
I've sort of given myself a time limit of trying until the end of the year with possibly IVF and donor embryo but there seems to be older women on here who've had success.
Anyway lets hope we get lucky this year


----------



## Mish3434

Happy 43rd Birthday Blondedolphin, hope your snowman turns out great, have a lovely day

Shelley x


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## RachelMaria

Happy Birthday BlondeDolphin xxxxxxx


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## binky47

Hello Ladies

Sorry to rain on anyone's parade (especially birthday girls's!) but am feeling a bit low tonight.  FInally had our appointment with the consultant this afternoon.  I was feeling chipper, thinking that, although I undoubtedly still need to loose more weight, my hormone levels would be great.  A recent scan apparently showed clear pictures of the corpus luteum showing that I had recently ovulated and FSH was high for an oldie, so I was waiting on results of a second scan to check out left ovary and also AMH results.  Turns out that in addition to DH's sperm being a bit ****, my AMH is less than 4 so according to the doctor, our chances of success with IVF would be 1-3%!  Not great stats.  Would be nearer to 50% if we had donor egg, not something I had thought much about before, and even more expensive with ISCI probably the best part of 8K  What to do?  Do we do it?  Or give up altogether.  I am really gutted! I can't believe it has taken so long (a year in total since our first appointment with the GP) to get to this point, esp at my age!  If we had known sooner I might have had more eggs left.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGGGHHH!

Of course, foolishly, I turned on ******** tonight, and two separate friends have posted about their darling children's birthdays and how lucky they are etc.  I'm not sure whether to puke or cry!  Really I wish it were socially acceptable to post about infertility.  Then at least all these smug gits with children might actually have pause to think about their insensitivity.  I wonder if we're at fault for keeping our problems all hushed up.  Who does it help?  Fortunately I overcame the urge to post something inappropriate (I am a school teacher after all!) and settled for a very large G&T from DH who is relatively unskilled in this area and gives me what I call Spanish measures (4 parts gin, 1 part tonic!) At least I'll sleep!

Hope your'e all having a much better time of it!

Binks xxx


----------



## RachelMaria

Hi Binky - the G&T sounds like a great idea - I too was pretty peed off with the amount of time it took us to get to IVF - we had to go to the doctors first, they got the tests wrong, so I had to do it all again - then we were finally referred to the NHS fertility clinic although we already knew that due to my age they could not help us - they also gave us the wrong information about having any procedure on tubes being as expensive as IVF - this was totally incorrect and as far as I am concerned wasted some time (and funds) - then we had to wait to be referred to a private clinic which we could choose.

Of course I don't know whether the outcome would have been any different - but the NHS seems so indifferent to our plight - I don't know why we couldn't just skip round them in the first place.

I had a long conversation with DP about DE etc and we decided to try with my own eggs as that was our preference - I do sometimes wonder whether we made the right decision given we could only afford one round of IVF, but I refuse to berate myself now - what will be will be and all that.

I know what you mean about ******** - there is a girl on there I went to school with - we weren't really close friends or anything and all she goes on about is her little boy - ie he counted to 10 the other day etc - I have to laugh at myself becuase I think Stupid cow - but would I really be any different?  I hope so, but I am sure there is a littel green eye there if I am honest with myself!

I am sorry you are feeling low - we were given quite low stats by our IVF clinic also - but you have to ask - someone makes up that 1-3%.  If it were down to me and if finances could be stretched within reason I would keep going to get my dream - unfortunately it does take two and I have to take DPs concerns/wishes into account also and he simply will not do anymore IVF.

I think if you feel you can stand it emotionally and can cope financially the question to ask is are you ready to give up yet - not a fair question I know, but I don't think life is fair - if it were I am not sure it should be this hard.

sending you hugs and hoping you are feeling a little bit better today xxxxx


----------



## blondedolphin

Thank you for the birthday wishes ladies. I had a very nice lunch with wine then ruined it by going to see Les Miserable, bloody awfull film, should have made a snowman instead.

RachelMaria & Binky47 I think smug posts should be banned on ********, along with boring posts about making a cup of tea before tackling the hoovering!

I'm considering embryo adoption from abroad but the anonymity issue does worry me, would it be incredibly selfish? how would you explain it to the child etc. but I think with my age it might be the only option. 
I'm having fsh tested tomorrow.


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## RachelMaria

AF arrived today   think I will stay off ******** for a while - am now going to try the approach that it probably wont happen but if it does its a bonus - will still be testing for OV and jumping on DP when the time is right !


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## quisty

Hi ladies

Rahelmaria sorry doll it's always disappointing. 

Blondedolphin I know what you mean about the anonymity issue. Here In spain it's against the law to tell you who the donor is of an egg etc. I would prefer that there  is the option to know should both sides wish it. I think some children would want to know and I can understand that. i'm also considering a family member but i'm not sure how that would feel. I'd love it as it would have some of my genes but emotionally it might be hard for all

Alfiemum how are you? I haven't seen you on here for awhile I hope you're doing ok. x

Binky. I wasted about 2yrs with a DR saying just wait etc with know tests when I finally burst with emotions she turned around and said oh sorry you're too old to get tests now you can imagine i wanted to kill her.

This Road we've been put on is tough so let the "tough get going"  oh thats a tune from the past ok ladies lets sing together on a count of 3  1 2 3  lalalala


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## RachelMaria

thanks quisty - never has disappointment been so expensive - have just booked a holiday to cheer myself up - whooppss xxx


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## quisty

hahaha I like that i normally go for chocolate but a holiday sounds like much more fun. Where you off to?


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## binky47

Hi Ladies

Well you've cheered me up no end!  Have decided to put things off for now (wimpy or what?) and try to lose the necessary weight and get more of my masters finished (which is turning into a bit of a nightmare on top of full time work).  In the summer I'll just have my dissertation left, the weather will be nicer, I will be slimmer, and hopefully in a better frame of mind.  Will also have had time to check out all the options and the costs of them (and to drop hints to my parents in case they have any spare cash to spare in our direction).  I have no idea if we'll go for it, but if we do it, it seems like donor egg has a much better chance of success than anything else.  Not sure about the wierdness factor though, or how it will go down with our families but I'll cope with that as and when!  Made the mistake of telling my mother what was going on with our infertility etc just so they didn't think of hassling us about the lack of grandchildren and to have some support, but it turns out that she really doesn't know how to cope with that information and started bombarding us both with almost daily text messages and then suggested we ask DH's brother to donate sperm.  Yup, would love to know how that conversation would go .... not!  Had to tell her to back off!  

In the meantime, steering clear of ********.  Apparently there is some sort of anti-******** anonymous social networking site out there where people can be brutally honest... sounds interesting!  

Anyway, there is a bottle of red wine open, a cassoulet in the oven (hairy dieters, of course).  Holiday sounds like a good option, too, although I can't go anywhere until the dissertation is finished and then we may be "holidaying" in Plzen or Athens... wonder why?  I suppose I'm still hoping it can happen naturally, provided the eggs hold out...

Courage for the weeks ahead, my friends!

Binks xxxxxx


----------



## RachelMaria

Hi Quisty - going to Lanzarote (Playa Blanca) - I have been there a couple of times with DP and we find it really relaxing - I would have gone somewhere else this year, but my mum and dad are coming with us so we wanted to do somewhere we knew. My mum and dad split up about 20 years ago, but they are the best of friends and still spend a lot of time with each other (of course a lot of water has gone under the bridge since they split).  They are such a laugh - honestly - I can imagine us laughing for two whole weeks - which is what I really need - unfortunately have to wait until September, but it gives us something to look forward to and time to save up! Have booked a lovely villa so am really excited.

Binky - you brave thing you - I did a masters degree - finished about 6 years ago, just before I met up with DP - he came in at the glory end - I can honestly say it was one of the worst and one of the best things I have ever done - but it does seem never ending sometimes - especially as it was on top of a more than full time job - glad I finished it though.

Had a really serious chat with DP at the end of last week and although I am still finding it really upsetting, I have decided not to let this rule my life - at my age the odds are stacked against me so I am going to try to take the attitude that if it doesn't happen then that is expected, but if it does happen it is a bonus - I have explained to him that I will probably still get my down days, but I must say I feel a bit more in control of my life since that chat and feel better for it - we are still going to hump like rabbits and check OV etc for the remainder of this year - so its not to say I wont be bitterley disappointed next month - but I will deal with it!

Now I can focus on the holiday as a reason to lose weight - not just fertility !

Love to you all xxxxx


----------



## quisty

Hi Ladies

I'm curious as to how many of us ladies need to lose weight? If your one will you write a quick note to say so, It's just I'm wondering if it's a common factor with us I need to lose a lot of weight and I know Rachelmaria and Binky need to. I wonder??

RachelMaria It sounds great I've not been to the islands which is crazy as I've lived here for nearly seven yrs. My DP mum's got a time share in Malaga so i'll probably go there with my sisters? I'm lucky enough to live in a hot country if for no other reason than the sun and cheap wine lol. And I think the conversation sounds good. It's good that feel in control it makes things easier to deal with. 

Binky My sister in law is just finishing up her studies and I know it's been tough but at the end you'll be so proud of yourself. 

Ladies keep well and happy. Until next time xxx


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## RachelMaria

I am afraid the comfort eating has gone into overdrive - mainly because I feel a bit peed off all of the time - think it will be bad today as I have just found out my (much younger) cousin has got pregnant 'by accident' - wish it was that simple..................


----------



## binky47

Oh God, makes you sick, doesn't it?  You need industrial quantities of wine and chocolate, plus possibly a voodoo doll in her image?  Ok, possibly a bit extreme, since she is actually your cousin, but it is tempting isn't it?  We're meeting some friends at the weekend (the bloke is a good friend of my husband) and the girlfriend (much younger of course) fell pregnant first time too, even with PCOS, and is exceedingly smug about it.  Mostly I avoid any social function that she is at, so that I am not tempted to punch her, but this weekend will be the first time in we've met in about 2 years so I shall try to grin and bear it.  Life sucks sometimes.  But hey, you're not alone, so go out, drink and eat chocolate, scream, do whatever and then you'll surely be ready to deal with cous.  I'm off now to remind DH to find a straight-jacket for me for the weekend, should it be required.......


----------



## RachelMaria

Ha Ha Binky - you did make me giggle - can you switch the subjects onto post pregnancy stretch marks and big black bags under eyes because of no sleep?  Have a nice big blass of wine for me XXXX


----------



## quisty

Hey ladies 

I saw that the discussion has moved to weight... Well I just weighed myself after not going near the scales in months and guess I've put on nearly a fliplin stone. Oh yeah so of course i resorted to eating a chocolate brownie i mean what's a girl to do? what a crap day that was. just back from UK for a job interview. Had to borrow the dosh to get there thought i'd nailed it but nooo and then to find out that my lardy ways had led to more lard well you can imagine I was having a ball. Oh yes and the week before i went out for a drink which I gave up for this baby quest. I had a hangover for 3 days i'm not kidding. so now I can't even turn to booze honestly what's the world coming toAnd at the prime age of 44 (ell i will b in 16 days I've started getting spots.. I mean come on! I think i'm going to have to complain to someone about this treatment of older but still terribly sexy women lol.

So there you have it. The good thing from all this is that It's spurred me on to make some changes so I made a new ** page advertising my work and i'm making contacts. The eating well i'm cutting down and i will start that 5/2 fasting thing and last time i did a detox i ost lots of weight nad kept it off for more than 2 yrs so....


And Rachelmaria I'm going to try clomid as well as soon as i can see a gyni. 

Keep well ladies. xx


----------



## Ronnie3007

Hi Girls can i join?  I had my tubes clipped after my DD 9 years ago, ex DH then decided to have an affair 2 years later.  Sooooo now I find myself remarried and DH would like to try for one of our own.  We were advised to try IVF due to my age and risk of ectopics, so we did and it failed .  So now I am about to have my clips removed in the hope of conceiving naturally, am not concerned about ectopic as I know they will keep an eye on me.

On the note of losing weight, I have got used to having a bottle of wine every night so have put on over a stone in 2 years. Living in Germany is great cos the booze is way cheaper.  So now since going thro the IVF last month I have cut right back and have managed to lose half a stone in the last 2 weeks.  Hoping it continues to fall off so that I am back to a more suitable weight.


----------



## quisty

Hey Ronnie nice to meet you

At our age I think you got to try everything so get unclipped and let those tubes do their thing lol. I live in Spain and likewise booze is so cheap here it's fab. I've now given up booze mostly purely because I am also clinically obese which is horrible to say eekkk. So i figured I better at least have more control over other aspects of my life. congrats on the weight loss that will only help.

I really hope the unclipping works. keep us posted


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## Ronnie3007

*quisty* Thanks for the welcome. Wine is my major downfall and sadly heavily laden with calories. It is hard to cut back as I am feeling so fed up at the moment but know I have to lose the extra weight. Where in Spain are you? How are you finding it with all the cutbacks etc?


----------



## quisty

Hey Ronnie3007

I hear you I love wine and it's so hard not to drink when the sun is shining and everyones in the streets with their sangrias.. I was really fed up last week and and just keep snaking. It's hard to keep being positive when it seems so endless but i keep thinking if I don't give it my all soon then I'll regret it for the rest of my life. sadly i don't have any children and we can't adopt as in Spain you need to own a house which we don't. The crazy thing is once we start to get fitter and lose weight it feels so good that you just keep at it but it's the starting that's the problem.... I'm getting my bike out this week and then....... I guess moderation is the key.  hmmmm


----------



## McNulty

Hello Tess;

I am 42 and ttc naturally, we were supposed to start an IVF cycle on january but a bad smear test result stopped everything.
At the moment we are taking chinese herbs, everyday and i am doing acupuncture twice a month, I am taking 4 capsules of royal jelly, preconception vitamins, maca, and i am started to run, I can definitely feel some changes, like some movement down there, but I am also a bit afraid that the bad smear test has something to do with it, or my endometriosis... *sighs*

We will try IVF when I have a clear health bill and if we can't use my eggs we are considering egg donation, I have a friend that is 6 month pregnant with twins after egg donation, she is 44


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## RachelMaria

Hello girlies

Hope everyone is OK? sorry haven't been on for a while as have been too busy at work (how boring is that) - hello to Ronnie and Cheekbones (must know how you picked that user name!).  Quisty - have been missing you hun - where have you been - bike riding or bonking I hope?

Well - have been using a different OPK given I think I had three missed ovulations last month - have brought the clearblue fertility monitor which apparently highlights more fertile days - it highlights when you have high fertility (becuase your estrogen levels have risen) and then you peak fertility (when it detects the LH surge) - seem to have been Ok for the last couple of months (although haven't actually got pregnant despite bonking like mad when the time was right) - this month however have just had high fertility for quite a few days (now day 20). So googled high estrogen levels and the first things that come up are pre menopause or breast cancer - good god am getting pretty fed up with my own body but am not going to panic - will wait until next month and see what happens.

Quisty - I think if next month I have an issue I think I am going to ask about Clomid - let me know how you get on xxxxxx

Love to you all ladies xxxxx


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## Ronnie3007

Well first appt for reversal on 9th April, should have been the 25th March but DH is working and they do not speak any english (we are in Germany).  So am having to be very very patient again!!  PATIENT what is that?


----------



## quisty

Hi Ladies

RachelMaria Yes missed you to. I've been Busy Trying to build up more work and also really depressed which is pretty much a first for me believe or not. It was so weird being so fed up and fatalistic It doesn't sit well with me. I'm normally really cheerful and optimistic even when i've gone through hell but I guess it comes to us all. I think my partner would def say not bonking enpugh lol where as i say  it's quality not quantity hehehehe. I think He's looking forward to a wee session tomorrow even though he's ill lol men you gotta love em. And as for cycling that would be a big fat NOPE. mind you the weathers been terrible here as well. The problem is i think I may start resembling a lump of lard if i don't start exercising again. How's your weight going Rachel?

As far as Clomid I can't get it until I pay to go to see a gyni and then go back to my doc. I was going to go this month but we just had a humongous leccy bill in so that's wiped us out. i will keep you posted if i get it but I kindda think that until i lose some weight it's like putting a tiny little band aid on a gaping big cut. 

i have a clearblue monitor and it's good i think as i was ovulating at a very different time to what i was expecting.

Ronnie what a pain the dates has been changed but the most important thing is that you have a date. Keep us posted about how it goes. 

Take care ladies Enjoy your weekends and remember don't do anything I wouldn't do   hehehehe x


----------



## McNulty

RachelMaria said:


> Hello girlies
> 
> Hope everyone is OK? sorry haven't been on for a while as have been too busy at work (how boring is that) - hello to Ronnie and Cheekbones (must know how you picked that user name!). Quisty - have been missing you hun - where have you been - bike riding or bonking I hope?
> 
> Well - have been using a different OPK given I think I had three missed ovulations last month - have brought the clearblue fertility monitor which apparently highlights more fertile days - it highlights when you have high fertility (becuase your estrogen levels have risen) and then you peak fertility (when it detects the LH surge) - seem to have been Ok for the last couple of months (although haven't actually got pregnant despite bonking like mad when the time was right) - this month however have just had high fertility for quite a few days (now day 20). So googled high estrogen levels and the first things that come up are pre menopause or breast cancer - good god am getting pretty fed up with my own body but am not going to panic - will wait until next month and see what happens.
> 
> Quisty - I think if next month I have an issue I think I am going to ask about Clomid - let me know how you get on xxxxxx
> 
> Love to you all ladies xxxxx


Hello Rachel Maria; I have HUGE cheekbones, sometimes if I laugh I can't see! lol
Just one question, did you have high fertility and ovulation or only high fertility? 
I need to buy more sticks and try to check again my ovulation time that is usually very early, around the day 10, do you have PCO? chinese herbs can help with the hormones, I've heard..

Good luck to all of us! WE CAN DO IT !


----------



## binky47

Hello Girls!  

Long time no see!  Well, how are we all?  I am still mega-stressed with work and managed not to do anything for my masters recently as I've been too busy being ill!  Yuk!  JUst that time of year I think.  I am interested to know how you are all getting on with OPKs and which ones you recommend.  We've been using the Clear Blue low tech one, and I think its frankly a bit basic.  I have noticed more natural signs of ovulation (shall spare you the gory details but you probably do all know what I am talking about) a day before my monitor gives me a smiley face. Is it worth investing in something that is high tech? Well probably not now that I have been told that my eggs are too old.  Have also invested in Paul McKenna's gastric band book which allegedly manages to hypnotise you into thinking you've had a gastric band fitted and therefore you lose weight by eating a hell of a lot less.  Will let you know if it works, just as soon as I actually read it!!!!! And watch the DVD & listen to the CD of course.  DH is also looking forward to a wee sesh this evening but he's had a prolapsed disc the last 10 days and been in a lot of pain so we'll have to see!  

Lots of baby dust to you all

Binks!


----------



## RachelMaria

Hi Quisty – I know exactly what you mean – despite trying to approach this with an attitude that says it probably wont happen because of age, but if it does it’s a bonus I still have really down days – I stayed of FF for a while – mainly because I was too busy but I was also trying not to dwell – I am normally also very positive, but this is always lurking in the background and catches me out at the most inopportune moments.  On the weight front I am not doing great but I am booked up to see a hypnotist to help –I have had my first meeting (although was not hypnotised) and am meant to be listening to a recording of her every day – although it is only 17 minutes long I cannot seem to find time – how ridiculous is that – how will a fit a baby in – well I tell you my life would have to change and I think that is a good thing – all I need to do is to actually get pregnant – sounds simple doesn’t it, but we all know better!  How is your work going? (sorry – cannot remember what you do – did we ever discuss that?).

Cheekbones – might have known it was something as simple as that – high cheekbones are a good thing – I think I lost mine in a layer of face fat some time ago!  I think the monitor only shows peak fertility if you have ovulated, so I suspect it hasn’t happened again this month – no known issues though – am starting to get worried that I am pre menopausal, but my mum didn’t start to get any menopause symptoms until she was in her mid 50’s so I am hoping to follow her – although she is a skinny little thing and I obviously get a lot of genes on  my dads side!!!  Also have really sore boobs today and that is usually a good predictor of AF in my case.

Binky – good to hear from you honey!!!! Sorry to hear about you back – hope it won’t stop you bonking!  I have been using the clear blue fertility monitor – a little machine with some pee sticks – does work out more expensive but it meant to highlight more fertile days in the month – I think you can get used ones (machines not pee sticks!!) on ebay so it might be worth a look.  I know how hard completing a masters is – I did mine with the OU whilst working and it basically took over my life for about 5 years – probably when I should have been finding the right man and bonking, but hey ho – was very glad I completed it – how long do you have left on yours?


----------



## binky47

Hi RachelMaria

Not long, really, perhaps that explains the panic.  I am supposed to submit my dissertation in August (20,000 words) and before that an essay (6,000 words) in April.  Really behind with even nailing my question let alone getting ethical approval, so can't start research yet.  And there's the small matter of the day job!! Er hem!  You'll have to let me know how you get on with the hypnosis.  I'm sure the Paul McKenna book is great too, whenever I get around to reading it, that is, er... Does anyone else remember when he was just a late night DJ on capital radio, before all this hypnosis stuff?  

Hello to you too Ronnie!  Welcome!  You have to be persistent with the German doctors.  They're not known for their bedside manner and I generally found that you had to be persistent and make sure they don't try the "you're English so you wouldn't understand" card.  Don't get me wrong, I love Germany to bits (lived there for 16 years when I was very young - long story - as a result of which I am now bilingual and teach German for a living) but I found there were times when we all had to stand up for ourselves.  Remind me some time to tell you all about the time I had to see a German gynaecologist in my youth!  But get yourselves a glass of wine first!

:-D

Binks


----------



## unicorn dust

I posted on another thread but just to let you all know miracles do happen i had my son at 46 own eggs but had 14 miscarriages to get there!


----------



## Ronnie3007

*Binky* Hello!!! I have to admit I was quite surprised with your comment regards to the German Dr's. My experience so far with German healthcare has been amazing, my family GP is wonderful and my Gynae, well I love her lol. I do not know many Gynae's that will refer you for a reversal but word it in a way so that you can get the operation FREE .

I am back off to see my Gynae this week after getting a call from her saying that my smear has shown up inflammation. I have been suffering the last 9 days from bad pelvic pain all round and no sign of my AF. I am also feeling rough every day. An infection in my womb might explain all of this.

*Unicorn* Such an emotional journey you have travelled but now you have your ds, what a great end


----------



## binky47

Hi Ronnie

Well its good to hear that you are getting on well with the docs even if you are suffering at the moment.  Maybe we were just unlucky but my mother (who spoke no German ) has vivid memories of our childhood GP saying to her "Ja, Frau Lewis, you vill DIE of low blood pressure!" by which he meant of course that she would always have low blood pressure (clearly a good thing, but the style of delivery was a bit disconcerting) or the Gynae who whizzed across the examination room on his swivel chair at high speed with both arms outstretched in front of him for a breat examination!  Hope you feel better soon, anyway.  

Unicorn, thanks so much for posting a good news story.  Its so good to know that the rest of us are not going completely barking mad pursuing this dream!!

BTW this thread has been going a while now and without wishing to read all of the preceding however many pages does anyone actually know what happened to the original Tess who set up the thread and whether she fulfilled her ambitions?


----------



## quisty

Hi Ladies I'm writing this in a very cold London. I've come over for a bit to do with looking for work. It's great being with the family. Well I'm late really late I'm on day 50 and I haven't done a test as I just don't feel pregnant at all. I was on antibiotics last week and ibuprofen for pharyngitis and tonsillitis. I know i should have done a test before taking anything but i just know that i'm not pregnant. This is the longest time with out a period. it has been known to go to about 41 days but this...... and we had sex the other day and there was some blood so i thought i was about to start but nothing.

I have bought a test now and wlll prob do it in the morning though my partner is back home i figure it's best to get it over and done with.

I'm off to sleep now. I hope you ladies are ok. I've yet to start on my healthy plan... procrastination hmm never a good thing. 

take care ladies. xxx


----------



## RachelMaria

Hi Ladies

Hope you are all well?

Unicorn - thanks for your post honey - I am at a stage where I feel like I should give up becuase I am just disappointed every month - but there is always hope!

Binky - how is your studying going honey?

Ronnie - did you get on OK at the doctors?

Quisty - I know how you feel hun - that sore boobs time of month seems to come so quickly for me, but I have definately not ovulated for the last two months (I have had this happen before but am really starting to panic again.  

I have now emailed the doctor who flushed the old tubes out (well one of them anyway) - I think I need to take the test again and if we still ave one clear tube I am going to ask for Clomid - god know how that much will cost, but I really feel like this year is my last chance xx


----------



## quisty

Hi ladies

Rachelmaria I want to try clomid too but we keep getting hit by big bills so i can't afford to go to the gyni... This will be our last year  of trying.I did a test and BFN as expected still no period. feeling some what lost I'm in London for an interview for a job had 2 for it so far now i have to wait and see if i get the last interview but as the time is going on i'm becoming less hopeful. Of course being here means I'm not earning hmmm it's all such a vicious circle. 

Take care ladies. x


----------



## A Better Year

quisty said:


> i have a clearblue monitor and it's good i think as i was ovulating at a very different time to what i was expecting.


Hi Quisty - this is interesting - is your real cycle earlier or later?

I've been finding that the timing the doc thinks and what is really the case is off by 2-3 days earlier than he thinks, and, from some of the online O calculators I use. But the problem for me is that my cycle durations have been all over the place - 26 days, 30, 24 - that has got tho throw off the calculations.

I can't imagine how many cycles we missed my checking too late.

A nice day to all ladies.


----------



## Ronnie3007

Hello girls, sorry for delay.  I am booked in for the clip removal Monday 22nd April, they are doing keyhole, removing clips, checking womb and running dye up thro the tubes. If the tubes have a blockage and I want it sorted out, it will mean another op at a different hospital and we will have to pay as its more complex  .  So we are praying   for a good result. 

Hope you are all good


----------



## RachelMaria

Hello Ladies - Hope your all still alive and kicking?

Well I have had quite a break from FF's - I found I kept repeating myself and just wanted a bit of a break - but back with a vengeance as they say.

I decided to push for Clomid, although according to the doc there are no real major success rates for ladies over 40 but given I am not ovulating every month it really is my last chance.  I had to have another scan to make sure my right tube was still un-blocked - which is was - cannot tell you how great it was to hear that as I had convinced myself it had blocked itself up again.

Cost wise the drug isn't that expensive £12 for six months - the problem is you have to have another couple of scans in the 6 months to make sure your ovaries are not over stimulated and if you have to go private like me they cost around £750 a pop - GULP - but not as expensive as IVF.

The only issue I can find - apart from some nasty mood swings is that Clomid can make your womb lining thinner, and apparently at my age it is already getting a bit think, so I am going to do some reading on what natural things I can do to help that - if anyone has any suggestions I would be grateful.

How is everyone else getting along?


----------



## quisty

Hey RachelMaria

Yes we've both been off for a long while i was also getting bored of the sound of my repeated sentences lol. Great about your tube you must be relieved. We've just moved back to London at least till August, I got a job here so it was worth the move. We're going to try and make it permanently relocate here?? Fingers crossed though I will miss the sunshine. My last cycle was 80 odd days... So now I have no idea when I'm due anymore. Now I'm here I hope we can see at least one specialist.  

I met a woman today who lost 5 stone on weight watchers so I think i'm going to have to take the plunge and go for it.... Bought a new sports bra today so my thoughts are slowly going in the right direction lol.

How are all you other ladies? Any new tips? Any good news? It would be lovely to meet you all one day to swap stories and have fertility buds in the flesh lol but guess that would be hard to organise.

Well I'm off to enjoy the lovely British weather and do some work. take care ladies xxx


----------



## binky47

Hi ladies

me three!  Also getting bored of saying the same things.  Still no joy on the pregnancy front, but given our odds (2-5% chance of ICSI working with own egg, given my low ovarian store) perhaps not surprising. Still trying to lose weight with little to moderate success!  I'm trying this hypnosis thing with Paul McKenna CDs. Its sort of working but my stomach definitely doesn't think its had a gastric band fitted yet!  Time to listen to the CD again, methinks! Hoping I will get the courage and funds to try IVF with donor egg!  

So glad you got the job, Quisty!  Its hard out there.  Am in the process of applying myself as my boss is going all passive-aggressive on me. Just starting work on my dissertation as we speak so that should be out of the way by the end of August.  Then I can relax a bit. I have booked a five day trip to Berlin for afterwards, as something to look forward to, and some skiing in Austria for December (we haven't been for a few years). 

Hope you ladies are all well!  Hi RachelMaria!  Ronnie - are you still enjoying Germany?

Binks


----------



## binky47

PS Very interested to hear about the Clomid, RachelMaria.  Is that something that I could consider with my pitiful ovarian reserve, or is it not worth it? I'd be very interested to know how you get on with it!


----------



## dillydolly

Rachelmaria

That's a crazy price for a scan! Can't you go to ultra sound direct and get them to email results to your doctor? You could probably have a scan for £100!

I paid £350ish for 3 months of Clomid and a couple of scans....I can't believe Clomid is so cheap!


----------



## RachelMaria

Quisty - back in blighty - get in!  Good news on the job honey - you must have brought the sunny weather with you!  Have you found a local GP yet to see if there is anything they can do to help on the NHS?

Binky - I am too struggling with the weight - I know for me it is really about exercise as I live most of my life in front of a PC sitting on my fat **** - but I am finding it so hard to motivate myself - by the time I get home and do chores I'm knackered and really cannot get myself up and out!  I have tried hypnotism and it really doesn't work for me ( I had to pay up front as well but cannot force myself to go to any more sessions as they are starting to make me feel really uncomfortable)

Dilly Dolly - thanks for the heads up on UltraSound direct - I will give them a look - I have my first scan booked for the 14th which is just really to see if the drugs are having any affect - and hopefully not too much affect - but I might give these a try for the one after.

Well day two of Clomid and no side effects (yet) - I was convinced I would get really moody based on other peoples experiences, but not yet - well no more than usual anyway.

Hugs to all and I will catch up with you soon xxxx


----------



## Astral

Hi all, I havent read back far but just thought I would join in. 
I am 42 and have been trying naturally since Christmas, with no luck. We had all the tests, my H has a high sperm count (68 million per ml) but poss low morph at 4%. I have a nearly normal FSH (?) at 11.2, BUT my AMH is below 2. However, we didnt get pregnant naturally when we were trying before 3 years ago when I was 39, although we only tried for 9 months before proceeding to IUI. Which worked first go.

So after giving it 6 months ttc naturally we are now going for IUI again this month. I think its interesting that my clinic were happy for us to do this eventhough I am 42 and have an AMH which they said was "below 2 and undetectable". They did ask us if we wanted to abandon when we got the AMH result, but we said no we'd give it a shot.


----------



## Passenger42

Hi


I just wanted to post that when I first started out on infertility investigations I managed to get my basic investigatory tests paid for out of my company BUPA cover and I was referred to a consultant by my GP who first prescribed me clomid (which did make me ovulate but no BFP) and after that he switched me to a drug called Letrozole which I think had less side effects than clomid.  


In the end due to my age I moved to DIVF, however it may be worth you speaking to your GP about bring prescribed Letrozole as its used for ladies with PCOS who dont get ovulation results with clomid.


Passenger


----------



## tweetypie123

Tess I so feel your pain    Im 42 also TTC naturally for 2 years and written off recently after a failed HSG and "too low" AMH - the consultant, after waiting 6 months to see, was just so heartless - I was a half an hour appointment that turned into a 15 minute one conveniently on a busy clinic list (or so I felt).  I work in the NHS and have never felt so abandoned in my life without support.  I would never treat any of my patients like that.  I just feel there is no after support for breaking bad news when it comes to fertility.  She told me basically, but not in these words, that I would be wasting my time with IVF.  However I do have to say after coming onto FF when I was in a very bad place a few weeks ago and chatting to others in the Chat room about random things, I do feel much better.  They prove that IVF is not a waste of time and although right now Its not the option for DH and I after discussion, I do feel it gives hope to others considering it.  I do think  face to face counselling should be offered by the NHS in these situations as that feeling is devastating and you feel you cant talk to close family or friends or anyone for me, it felt that had children.  We have decided to continue TTC naturally and I would be delighted to prove the "nasty" consultant wrong!  We have nothing to loose trying!!!!!  You need to do whats right in your heart for you and your partner but talking about it with others that understand is a must!  Keep us updated and please come onto chat I would love to talk to you and maybe we can set up a over 40,s chat room.


----------



## RachelMaria

Hi Passenger 42 - thanks for the info on Letrozole - I did do some research on Clomid and I know there are at least two other drugs that don't apparently have the same side effects - one of them began with 'F' but I cannot remember what it was - I do know however that they use it for breast cancer and it is only just being tested for fertility.

I was struggling with what to do and my Doc said it would probably be best to go with what has been tested for the reason you are taking it - hence the Clomid - I don't seem to be suffering anything major in terms of side effects yet, however the one I am concerned about it the thickness of the womb lining - at my age (I bloody hate saying that) the womb lining is already thin (my periods only last about 2 days now), and Clomid (or at least excessive use of Clomid depending on which web site you read) can thin the womb lining, which stops the egg implanting.

I have therefore started taking Royal Jelly (which is meant to help) and will be looking for some raspberry leaf tea today - which is also meant to be good.  I have also read that low estrogen levels cause thin womb lining, but I am not sure I should resort to patches or pills for this given it might impact with the Clomid - what to do?

Does anyone else have any suggestions?


----------



## Passenger42

Hi RachelMaria

The drug you are referring to is Fermera which is the brand name for Letrozole (or it could be the other way around, I am not sure) and yes it is a hormone drug used for treating breast cancer, but it also is used for women with infertility.  

It had less side effects for me as clomid completely dried me out down below and was uncomfortable apologies for TMI.

Passenger


----------



## RachelMaria

Hello Ladies - hope you are all well?

Well month one of Clomid - no major side effects thank goodness - went to the clining for the final scan just before ovulation and there were 3 good size follies, which at least meant that the Clomid was not getting me to over produce - the consultant was very pleased and also said the womb lining was a good 7mm - must be that royal jelly!  Lots of bonking this month, which is also good! 

Unfortunately am starting to feel signs of an impending AF with sore boobs and all - could cry at the drop of a hat, so don't think we have been sucessful this month


----------



## quisty

Hey RachelMaria

Well It's good to know that you have follies and on a positive note at least you still have Af if that stopped it would be even tougher so..... Did yo get the Clomid privately? I'm thinking to try as the last time I asked the DR here they said they wouldn't do it on NHS. I've never been to see a clinic in London can anyone recommend  some where or someone please?

Have a good day ladies xxx


----------



## RachelMaria

Hi Quisty - yes it was a private prescription, but the drugs (from memory) only cost around £12 odd - it would be getting the private presription that would cost the money as you would need to pay to see a consultant - they would probably also suggest a couple of scans to make sure you are not over-reacting to the drugs also - unfortunately that is where the cost comes in - each of my scans cost £650 each and then I had around £150 consultant fees on top but it might be worth shopping round some of the private hospitals near to you see how their costs compare xx


----------



## Ronnie3007

Hi Girls hope you don't mind me jumping in.  I am 45 next month and trying to have a baby with my new hubby.  We had 1 tx of IVF in Feb, now trying again but using Clomid instead of the stimms, for a gentler approach to my ovaries.  I have taken my first one this morning and will be on a total of 100mg a day.  Follie scan is booked on Tuesday morning, if no more than 2 follies showing it will be suspended til next month to give the Clomid more time.  

My question is: were you told to sit with a hot water bottle whilst taking the clomid, we had to do this with the stimm jabs, so just wondering whether it would help? 

We are trying IVF again.

Thanks xxx  

GOOD LUCK XX


----------



## RachelMaria

Hi Ronnie

I must say thats a new one on me - I too have had one round of IVF but was never told about a hot water bottle.  I have read somewhere that it is important to keep your feet warm because of some connection to the womb but cannot remember the exact context - doesn't sound like it would hurt though!

Good luck with your scan - let us know how you get on xx


----------



## Ronnie3007

*Rachel*Hiya and thanks, when we did our tx in Feb but with the stimm jabs, it was advised to sit with a hot water bottle as much as possible, but not sure about with Clomid. I will have to google it  I will let you know how my scan goes x


----------



## RachelMaria

Well dam AF arrived today - even though it was expected, still disappointed - starting to feel like nothing is going to work now, but it is only month 1 - feel so bloody old!


----------



## RachelMaria

Hi Ladies - article on the on-line sun newspaper in the health section about ladies 'of a certain age' trying to get pregnant - apparently the statistics that the 2004 report (that stated that most women over the age of 35 will not get pregnant with unprotected sex for more than a year) actrually based their study on church records in rural France between 1670 and 1830 - the new research also states that there are NOT more occurances of birth defects and other problems for us older ladies.

Wish someone would tell my body that!


----------



## treaclebum

Im 42 and dh 44, we have been trying for 3 years, had 2 miscarriages last year, just finished 6 months of clomid and cyclogest. consultant told us she could prob get me pregnant eventually but that the chances of a successful outcome were 'very slim'. she reccomended IVF with PGD or ED. We are researching ED abroad as no wait list, but she also gave us details of Oxford spires and The Lister. Good luck, Just look at Halle Berry.


----------



## RachelMaria

Hi treaclebum (love the name) - good luck to you also - I was at the Lister and although it was not a successful outcome I did get pregnant - I found the nurses there were lovely - just a long way to travel for me from the Midlands - good luck to you honey and if you have any questions at all I will do my best to help.

How did the Clomid affect you?  I am quite weepy, but I don't know whether that is drugs or a slow realisation that I might never have kids!


----------



## mfmcmoo

Hi All

Just a quick update from me. Beautiful baby boy born a few days ago - all well. My 43 years. Natural conception after taking loads of supplements (http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=294994.0).

Also - and this is obviously not recommended , but just to give people the full picture in case it did the trick. In my second month of taking the supplements, I had a tiny bit of fertility meds left (Puregon 25mg or 50mg - cannot quite remember). I used these on about day 2 of my cycle. (I had been given 375mg Puregon a day on a previous failed IVF). This is when I fell pregnant.

Good luck everybody

x


----------



## RachelMaria

mfmcmoo - I think I might have already answered on another feed, but many congratulations !!!!!!!

Well - I think although the course is not over yet, it is setting in that the Clomid is just not doing it for us - I think I am becoming more resigned to the fact that it will never happen for us, but I am trying to stay upbeat - My cousion gave birth on Saturday to a lovely little boy and although of course I had a few pangs when I saw the pictures on ******** it didn't upset me as much as I thought - we had some great mates stay at ours over the weekend so that really helped keep my focus elsewhere - where on earth would we be without friends !


----------



## vaninort

Hello
I am new to this forum and actually new to IVF. I have one child aged three who I conceived naturally and have since had two miscarriages trying for a second. Due to my age (42), I have had to make the decision to take more drastic action and try IVF. I have just had my first cycle at Boston Place clinic, its quite new and affiliated to Hammersmith. They put two embryos back in on Monday but they said the quality was 'average' and success rate was low (15%).

Anyone else had a similar experience?

I am tempted to try the ARGC if this cycle doesn't work but I have heard its like IVF 'Bootcamp' and is the last resort if all else fails


----------



## Cornishrex

I'm 42, 43 in February. Currently. 8 weeks pregnant. Conceived naturally. Only took 3 months of trying. I'm very fit and healthy. No idea about spermatozoa quality or my egg quality. We threw ourselves into the task, temping, fertility monitor etc.  so far all is good, waiting for the Down's syndrome hurdles. I know so many women who have had natural conceptions at the ages of 42 and 43, I never Even thought it could not be done.  I appreciate some of you will have real problems, but others, take heart, don't let yourself give up hope at the first hurdle !


----------



## Cornishrex

Ps, my first pregnancy too, never even tried to get pregnant before .....


----------



## mfmcmoo

Hi Cornishrex - thought you may find this interesting: 
Just wanted to add - there is a new test out now - called the "Harmony blood test", which is done at 10 weeks to test for downs and other things. It is a diagnostic test (i.e. very accurate). The Fetal medicine centre on Harley street are currently offering a "special" - you pay for the nuchal scan and get the harmony blood test free (£180 in total).
Else there are other clinics on Harley street which do the test for £750.
Regards 

PS - congratulations!


----------



## Cornishrex

Thank you Mfm, but I'm going for the nifty test. It newer to the uk than the harmony test (only arrived in uk in October)  and is cheaper, I think because it doesn't fold in extra scans. I think it's also slightly higher certainty than harmony. 295 pounds for the blood test, which gets sent to china for testing. They also do an express service in 7 days ....


----------



## Cornishrex

Actually, I've just realised that you may be saying that the fetal magical centre offer would bring the price down even lower than the nifty test. But how do I find the offer. I see nothing on their website? Many thanks!


----------



## mfmcmoo

Pick up the phone and give them a ring? 
And yes £180 < £295
xx


----------



## Cornishrex

Thanks, did that. It's 450 now, combined with nuchal.


----------



## quisty

Hi Ladies it's been a long time since I was on here. How are you all doing. I was just wondering if anyone knows of anyone who had a really high FSH and still conceived? my GP tells me mine is 70 which completely flawed me. However it was taken on the 3rd day of my cycle but she said even if it was it would still be really high. has anyone else had there's taken outside of the normal time

Ok off for a glass of wine had given up drinking in my bid to get healthy but today I think I deserve one lol.

Take care ladies xx


----------



## Cornishrex

Hi, gosh a long time since I posted on this thread. I'm 34 weeks now and just spent the last hour pushing furniture around the nursery to finish it off .....

I only had fsh tested once, back in sep 2010 when I wanted get a feel for how fertile I was or wasn't. I would have been 39.5 back then. It was a day 3 test and my fsh level was 5.7, lh was 3.9. All seemed ok so I left it another 4 years before starting to try .... (Not deliberately, just "life"). I had progesterone levels tested in June 2011 and they were 27.7. Apparently normal is above 30, so a bit low.

So sorry I can't help you with what you're looking for comfort on.

But I have been a committed wine drinker for years, having a nightly glass of red wine all through my life and whilst ttc (had to cut back a bit now tho), so for gods sake don't feel bad about that. It'll help relax you .....


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## Beside_the_seaside

Quisty - 

I conceived aged 43 with Day 3 FSH of 19.5.  My 12 month old DD is asleep upstairs.  I've just had my FSH tested again, aged 44 (nearly 45), and its been 7 and 5 (with normal estradiol).  Go figure.

If yours was tested mid cycle then of course its going to be a lot higher than it would be on Day 2/3.  Obviously it might be higher than average on Day 3, but still be a number you can work with.  Can you ask for it to be done again at the proper time?  

Did you read Julia Indichova's book 'Inconceivable'?  She started out with an FSH of 42 aged 42/43 - and had a baby.


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