# IUI with vaganismus Part 3



## Candy

New home ladies, good luck


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## emmadaffodil

Hi Donna,

How are things? Have you been taking things easy? Any symptoms?!

Dh and I have just been too tired to try anything this weekend - perhaps tonight! We've had plumbers here all weekend after I threw a wobbly on Saturday (quite out of character - I hate a scene - but I was at the end of my tether), working with very bad grace! Bathroom still not finished, but we can bathe again; should be completed tomorrow.

I have psychosexual counselling again this Tuesday and am dreading it! Horticulture exams on Wednesday; I'll be glad to have that out of the way.

Take care,
Emma
p.s. Cuddles - how are you?


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## Donna Taylor

Hi Emma, 
is bathroom finished now then?
Sounds like a busy week for you, I'm sure counseling will be OK I know you don't enjoy it and it probably seems harder to go as you haven't been for a few weeks but I'm sure you will be fine especially as you have mad such progress 
 for your exam on Wednesday, is it your final 1?

2ww is driving me mad! got some symptoms but i am sure i am reading to much into EVERYTHING!
will probably test on sunday, as don't want to test Monday morning then have to go straight to work. whatever the result is I am sure I will need some time to get my head round it.

Take care
Donna xx


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## Donna Taylor

hi

how are you? is bathroom looking gorgeous?

not sure if you have seen but FF are organizing a summer party in June or august its in a hotel in Essex why don't you and DH come along sounds like fun

take care Donna xx


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## Donna Taylor

Hi Emma,
I know you are very busy at the moment but wanted to wish you luck for counseling today and exam for tommorrow.

let me know how you go

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil

Hi Donna,

That's really sweet of you. My revision schedule went out of the window, and I feel very unprepared, but I'm trying to take a relaxed view of it all. I don't know enought to do well, but I should be OK to pass, which is all that matters. When I started the course (2 years ago) I had thought of setting up my own gardening business, but I don't really want to do that while ttc; too much exercise is bad I believe (I already walk my dogs for 2 hours a day).

Counselling today was actually really good. We talked about my attitudes to sex and penises! The upshot is I have to learn to relax and let go and maybe even have fun! Tried dilator #2 yesterday (after 2 weeks absence) and it still fits. Phew! After Wednesday I'm going to concentrate on sex and ttc and fun!

Bathroom is almost finished. A few bits of tiling still need to be done. all the bits work and it looks great! I love bathrooms!

How are you? What symptoms are you having? My af is due tomorrow, but because we got the dates wrong with the syringe I'm not worrying about it (actually quite refreshing after last month).

Not sure about the party thing. I'm not a great party person (and fancy dress is a real no-no), and dh invariably gets stuck at work late on Fridays. 

take care,
Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

Hi Emma,

Glad bathroom is almost done - you love bathrooms?! not what you where saying a few days ago.
You sound quite positive after your counseling session today, and great that you are still making prodress with the dilators.
Not sure why but trying anything for vag be it dilators or vibrators have gone a bit out of the window since we have started IUI and if you don't mind me saying so has "sex" a little! still have loads of kisses and cuddles but just haven't been "in the mood" (sorry if that is to much info)

Are you going to back to hospital for IUI or carry one as youare at home?
No worries about party, not sure its my thing really either but thought it may be a chance to relax and meet others plus we'd get a night in a hotel to! 
Don't think I will be dressing up as that is really not my thing although may be easier than trying to decide what to wear!

Been getting light period pains every now and then that I am sure I don't usually get but then maybe I do without thinking about it. when I stretch or lift tummy feelas tight but again i am sure I am imagining feelings that aren't there! its crazy!
Ordered 2 tests from earlypregnancy.co.uk and they arrived today so ready for testing on sunday!

 for tommorrow I am sure you will pass with flying colours!

Donna xx


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## Donna Taylor

Just want to wich you luck for today  

    

Donna xx

Is this you final exam?


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## emmadaffodil

Hi Donna,

The exam was fine. It is all over now.

Your pains sound promising, don't they? I'm sure you don't want to get your hopes up though.

My af arrived yesterday. I'm pleased that me cycle is back on track. It makes planning for next month's attempt easier. Just have to make sure dh isn't working this time! We will probably try for another 3 months and then think about IUI. I'm sure that if your attempt has worked it'll make me want to go straight to IUI sooner though!

Take care,
Emma


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## Donna Taylor

you must be so pleased exams are over, when do you get the results?
Was a bit silly today and did a first response test, it was negative! still could have tested to early so there is still a chance.

Has rows with family I nanny for so haven't been at work for to days! the mother wants me back but I don't really want to go back after way they spoke to me but may have no choice!
waiting to hear today if I have a job elsewhere if not looks like I'll be going back, for the time being anyway

Hows the bathroom?

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil

Hi Donna,

Sorry to hear you are having such a tough time at work. Are they giving you a hard time over the IUI and time off? Do they know about it? Don't take any nonsense; I bet you could walk into another nannying job if you wanted to. Life is too short to spend time in a job you don't like. Must be hard though as it isn't the childrens' fault. Were you planning to stay working after you get pg/have children?

Don't worry about the pg test result; it is too early. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed. this is the first time I've really wanted someone else to be pg!

Exam results are late April/early May - noone seems to know exactly. Bathroom is now finished. I'm going to go any but yet more bath foam tomorrow!

Just realised I'm going back to see the gynae consultant on Wednesday. He wants me to have tried inserting my husbands' fingers and have my husband try to inser the fingers or a dilator before then. Best get on with it! Got af at the moment so don't really feel like it.

Take care,
Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

I had an interview yesterday and got the job! it's working in a nursery. I went round to tell the family yesterday and the kids were all over me as they hadn't seen me for 2 days it was really hard.
New job is little less money but I will have more chance of pay rises and progression to deputy manager if I want to at a later date.
Feel really misarable though because of the children they are like family and are to young to understand I don't want them to feel deserted!  I am quite upset over it but as DH says they are young and will get over it, it's not going to scar them for life or anything.
I am working with them till the end of the month and start new job on 4th April 

Glad things are going well for you and Bathroom is finished. AF is probably the best time to try something (so I have been told but I've never really fancied it) because your be naturally more lubricated!
Good luck with it anyway whatever you decide to do.

Take Care

Donna xx


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## Donna Taylor

hi,

tested again this morning and still negative!
DH thinks we may still be testing to early as basting wasn't done until late monday afternoon so may mean that testing day is tuesday and not tommorrow? also tests I got from internet aren't a make I have heard of so maybe thinking they are not that accurate. Think we may ne clutching at straws with both thoughts though! have to see when period arrives I guess, which if its going to arrive just wish it would hurry hope as there is always that little bit of hope till it shows.

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil

Hi Donna,

You're right - it could still be too early. I'd wait until Tuesday and try again if af hasn't arrived. Bet you can't stop thinking about it. How are you both feeling?

Congratulations on the new job. I'm sure the children will miss you, but they are so young that they'll adapt just fine. 


take care,
Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

Thank you. Was ok this morning but beginnign to feel really down and angry now.
Not looking forward to going to work tommorrow so that doesn't help, plus the 'has it worked phone calss have started'
feel so angry with people because they don't understand,
they try to say the right things but I guess what ever they said I would find fault in.

Going to have a long soak in the bath and eat a massive bar of chocolate!

Hope you are well

Donna xx


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## Donna Taylor

AF is beginning to show herself so looks like thats it


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## emmadaffodil

Hi Donna,

I'm so, so sorry that it hasn't worked this time. You must be gutted. I know that nothing I can say will make it better.

Emma, xxx


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## Sarah R

Hi,
Feel a little emotional even writing this, but I've overcome a big hurdle recently, and although i've not been diagnosed with Vaganismus - my experience seems quite similar.  Basically wish to start DIUI and so went to GP for blood tests and first ever smear.   Due to dodgy experiences in the past, didn't think that a smear would be possible (sorry if TMI but one finger seems to big).  Anyhow, with lots of tears, a fanastic nurse, and a bit of discomfort i actually survived it.  It sounds silly but I couldn't stop crying for two hours, I truely believed that I was disformed, so the relief, embrassment and reminder of the past (which I haven't really dealt with) caused me to be in a right state...couldn't even hold it together in the street!  Still it's over and in a strange way it wasn't as bad as i thought.  Thanks for listening, 
Sarah


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## emmadaffodil

Hi Sarah,

Well done on surviving your first smear. That is a great achievement! Until I was diagnosed I thought I was deformed and the world's greatest freak. I know just what that is like, and it is the most horrible feeling. I stopped going to doctors for years (even for unrelated problems) because they kept hassling me to have a smear test, and I couldn't explain to them why I couldn't or wouldn't have one. When I was referred to a gynaecologist I finally had one and I was climbing the walls in pain! You have been so brave to get through this hurdle.

It is not silly at all to cry afterwards. These issues are so emotional and stressful especially when added with the the problems of ttc. Has your GP mentioned vaginismus? Have they offered any treatment for it? When will you be starting DIUI? 

It means so much to me to know that there are other people out there with similar situations. Please keep posting with how you get on (or PM me if you prefer).

Take care, 
Emma, xx


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## emmadaffodil

Donna,

How are you doing? 

Emma, xx


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## emmadaffodil

Hi Donna and everybody else,

Just wanted to rant about doctors! 
My psychosexual counselling next week is cancelled. 
Went to see the gynaecologist to get dilator number 3 today and he was on holiday; the appointments people had screwed up. They said I'd have to wait until July to see him. I made a fuss and they managed to find an appointment in a month's time. I was really looking forward to getting the next size up and making some progress (and I had to drive 1 hour each way to get there and got soaked in the rain). 

Feel better for that! 

How are you doing Donna, and Cuddles and Sarah? It is syringe time for me again this weekend. I'm trying to think positive thoughts about it in the vain hope it might make a difference. My Mother in law is threatening to visit too; she is lovely but her timing could be better!

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

Sarah,

Welcome to the thread! Really glad you felt able to post on here, well done on getting through your smear! how are you feeling about it now? As Emma said I to felt like a freak, I wasn't (and still cant) able to have sex to felt I was frigged or something but thankfully my experience as been fairly positive all the counselors, doctors,nurses and gynea's have been brilliant I still haven't overcome vag but think that as more to do with ttc than anything else. Had my first IUI which was negative, now starting my next go!
when do you start DIUI? are you having a natural cycle or using meds?

Emma - What a nighmare hospitals are run so badly at times similar thing happened with my Gynea and I haven;t bothered going back -  silly really 
Finally got in touch with hospital after trying and leaving messages for 2 days! would mind but I am paying for the lack of service! Booked in for CD10 scan on Wednesday and by my calculations basting will be on Tuesday 29th! Hoping this time will work as will have to take a break for while after because of new job, can hardly start new job and take time off can I? especially without explaining why or where I am going and Not a good idea to tell my employer that I am ttc especially while on my 3 month trial period!!

Sorry rambled on a bit but haven't been able to get on here for a few days.

Take care Donna xx


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## Sarah R

Hi Emma and Donna,

Many thanks for your messages,  it's nice to be able to voice my concerns, haven't explained it to anyone before.   You are both really brave to be dealing with vag and ttc at the same time - think i'm going to concentrate on the ttc first. I'm still in the very early stages, due to collect blood test results from GP tomorrow and then she'll send a referral to Barts.  As i'm single it's not a sure fired thing that i'll be accepted for treatment, so will have to see how it goes.  From both your recent posts, half the problem seems to be the Dr's and clinics...as if we haven't got enough to deal with?!!
take care, and thanks
Sarah


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## Donna Taylor

Sarah -  I Know what you mean about docs etc, hope all is well with blodd tests, keep us posted on your progress. I f you don't me asking how old are you?
For the moment I am concetrating on ttc overcoming vag has taken a bit of a back sit.

Emma -  all ok?


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## emmadaffodil

Hi Donna,

I'm glad that you are having another go at IUI soon. It is a shame, but quite understandable, that you'd have to take a break if that cycle doesn't work. You sound quite positive about it all - do you feel that way?

MIL isn't coming now, so we can try with the syringe without worrying about her knowing what we're up to! I've had a glass of wine this evening and feel really light-headed! I know I shouldn't have, but....

Sarah - how did it go with your GP? When will you find out if Bart's will take you? 

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

I have never been a big drinker but know that I am not drinking I really want a glass! going away at the weekend to Hastings for a few days be nice to get away from everything so may have a glass then!
Feel quite positve about things but still very up and down.
work is taking up so much head space at the momnet cant really think about much else, told them today I have a new job so time to see if $hit starts flying!!

Sooooo tired off to bed, hope you get on well with syringe at the weekend good news about MIL

Donna xx


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## AnnieR

Hi Ladies

I've spoken to a few of you in the past about my difficulties with internals, smears etc.

Weellll - I am so over the moon today and I expect you ladies are the only ones who won't consider me a freak when I say this.... I inserted a tampon this morning, all by myself!!!!!

I am so excited that I've done this after 13+ years of periods, 4 months of seeing a crap councellor and panic attacks at even looking at anything that has to go in me down there. 

All it needed in the end was some good old lubrication, breathing and repeating out loud the whole time "I can do this, I can do this"

Only thing was I'd always focussed on getting one in and as soon as I did I started panicking about getting the bloody thing back out. I led on the bed for about 5 minutes and finally went for it.

Yipeeeeee!!!! - Who knows - tampons today, smears tomorrow & IUI this summer?!?! Well one thing at a time anyway!


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## emmadaffodil

Annie - well done!!! That is fantastic!!! 
Have you had any more goes since?!
13 years is nothing - it took me 19 (goodness I feel really old writing that)! I've only been able to do it for the past 2 periods. For the first period I was convinced that the thing would fall out, and I felt like I was walking round on a spike. I also worried that it had got in by a fluke and I'd never be able to repeat the experience. However on the second period (just ended) they went in really easily, and I feel much happier about things. I don't like pulling them out though (and the same with dilators)! It really does make you believe that anything could be possible, doesn't it. 

Donna - hope you have a lovely weekend in Hastings. It'll do you the world of good to have a break. And you should have fantastic weather too! I've never been, although I spent a lovely New Years day wandering around Battle in the mist several years ago.

Sarah - any news?

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

Annie -  well done I know exactly how you feel only managed a tampon a couple of periods ago after 10 years!! and had the same experience as soon as I put it in was panicing about taking it out and was convinced it would fall out! haven't really tried since should really.

Emma - thank you, I am really looking forward to it! I'm not switching my phone on while we are there but I will be loggin on here from time to time. Mother of the children told me today that she might not want me back to work so today could have been my last day. Had a nice day with the kids blubed a bit to though  
Hope you are well have a nice weekend

Donna xx


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## Sarah R

Hello Emma, Donna and Annie

I can only access the internet through work (Psychiatric rehab centre) and then there is only one computer, so I'm unable to post as much as I'd like.  My blood tests came back fine, the GP is writing a referral letter and I'm to phone the clinic for an appt.  Currently in a quandary, the position above me is vacant and people are pushing me to go for it, though the recruitment process is unbelievable -  for my job, I had 2 interviews lasting over 1.5 hrs, a written test, psychometric test and a 10 min presentation?!  Now, part of me is thinking that the stress of interviews, on top of working full time and doing two courses not to mention ttc will push me over the edge.  Though it seems an ideal opportunity and the money would be handy! A friend suggested that i leave making an appt at the clinic until after the recruitment process, I don't know about you guys, but i kinda feel if i don't strike while the iron is hot then I'll just put things off. Anyhow enough of me:-

Donna - Hope that hastings is restful, I'm 29 by the way
Emma - goodluck with the syringe 
Annie - Congratulations, that's wonderful news!

Take care all
Sarah x


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## AnnieR

Hi Donna, Sarah & Emma

Thanks very much for all your kind words. I knew there had to be someone out there who would understand my joy at something it seems every other woman in the world finds a natural way of life!

I haven't had another go yet as I've wanted to be at home for the first few goes. I was going to try this morning, but I think my periods finished. I'm a bit disappointed about it - makes me bloody laugh after all this time


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## emmadaffodil

Syringe antics not going well! Friday night dh aimed badly, missed the syringe and wasted most of the semen (sorry if too much information). Saturday I developed a horrible cold/flu thing and just couldn't be bothered. Today dh went to work before I woke up. We will try later, although I still feel yucky. 

Donna - hope you had a lovely weekend.
Annie  - sorry your period stopped! What a shame when you'd just made such a breakthough! You'll be great next time.
Sarah - the recruitment process sounds horrendous. Could be that the stress of that will take your mind off the stress of ttc and vice versa?  I'd try and do both. if I don't do something straight away then it never gets done. Good luck with all that.

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

Hi emma,

Sorry to hear your haven't had much success over the weekend, sorry if this is TMI but why doesnt DH ejaculate into a pot of some sort then you can suck it into the syringe after? just a thought.
weekend has been lovely and weather has been great to!
Only bad or should I say embarrasing thing was thta DH got bit drunk on sat night (due to nerves I think as he had never met my aunt and uncle before and was thrown into the deep end by goin to the pub wiht my uncle and his friend) he didn't drink that much but drunk it a bit quick and the result was he later threw yp all over the spare room! 

Since we have been away I have been needing to wee all the time sorry if TMI. I thought it may be because of the soft water so stopped drinking it but still need to wee all the time (I hardly ever go) 
I know this is a really stupid thought but cant help thinking could I be pregnant??!
Hospital told us to do a proper test as the early predicter once aren't that reliable and apparently it is common to have a period when ttc with IUI. I didn't do another test as didn't want to waste money when period had arrived so no point. I am now thinking of doing one as AF only lasted 2 days and now needing to pee all the time, anyway I will test wednesday morning before going for scan just incase although I'm sure i've probably got a urine infection or something and i'm just being stupid getting hopes up.

Sorry for essay

Donna xx


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## AnnieR

Fingers crossed for you Donna - You never know. FF has had many miracles!

Let us know how you get on when you test again. Good Luck!!!


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## emmadaffodil

Donna - I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you. Can't wait to hear how you get on. I'm glad you had a lovely weekend (bit about dh made me laugh)! How was work on Monday - hope they weren't too horrible to you.

For some stupid reason, despite feeling like death warmed up, I decided to try and have sex on Sunday night. I was grumpy from feeling unwell. Dh was also grumpy (work stress) and I felt we were both spoiling for a fight. I thought we'd never move on to syringe work if that happened so decided to take the intiative with sex (which I never do). Sorry if TMI, but I couldn't get it in and dh ended up coming all over my leg! A thoroughly disastrous evening that neither of us enjoyed. Oh well. We're going on holiday next month so I'm going to try again then.
Good idea about the cup though, Donna. I think dh was so upset about 'missing' that he was avoiding having another go all weekend.

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

Hi emma,

Just wrote a long reply but got logged out and lost it.
Sorry your weekend didn't go to plan hopefully you will have better luck next time. How are you feeling now.

I am on unpaid holiday all this week as I had booked it previously, coming home from Bexhill today.

On friday the family announced that they MAY want that to be my last day, I guess so they don't have to pay me for bank holidays and so they have the last say which is quite pathetic. So I could have 2 weeks off before I strat new job on the 4th which will be nice although money will be tight with me not getting paid for 2 weeks but ha ho.

Donna xx

P.s last message was much longer but can't remember all that I had written now.
will test again tommorrow before having scan, hospiatl wanted me to anyway.


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## Cuddles

Hello everyone, 

Just wanted to let you know that I got my appointment letter today for the treatment of my vaginismus and it's on 18th of April.  It will be my first appointment so I don't know what to expect.  I just hope that the doctor is nice and understanding.

Donna - I wish you good luck with your test tomorrow, but also remember, whatever happens, will happen for the best.  You are still very young so don't worry and keep trying.
Emma - We have had the same experiences with sex as yours but you have come so far now with the treatment, you should be happy that you have made so much progress. Good luck with the syringe work!!


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## emmadaffodil

Cuddles - it must be good to have a date for your first appointment. Not too long to wait. Is this psychosexual counselling? Is it with a doctor? I hope it goes well for you. Don't be disheartened if it doesn't - it takes some getting used to to talk about these issues with a complete stranger (well, it does for me at least).

Donna - did you test again?

Annie, Sarah - hope all is well with you. 

I still have my yucky cold, so we never tried again with the syringe! I'm not even sure that I ovulated this month; normally I get signs (slight pain, mucus - sorry if TMI) but not this time. I'm going to get some of those ovulation pee sticks for next month.

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

Hi everyone

Tested again this morning as hospital asked but was negative, but expected that so no big deal.
had scan today but no follis as yet, so going for a scan on friday looks like I may be having a long cycle this month so basting may be thursday and not tuesday.

hope you feel better soon emma

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil

Donna - sorry it was still negative. Good luck with the scan tomorrow.

Emma, xx


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## Sarah R

Hello everyone,

Emma - Sorry to hear about your weekend, hopefully next month will be easiler, on holiday when you will both be more relaxed.

Donna, - Glad that most of your weekend was enjoyable.

Cuddles - It good that you haven't got too long to wait for your appt.

Annie - Hello!

No news on the fertility side of things at the mo,I'm still waiting for the GP to write the referral letter at the mo. Work is a different story.....(excuse the rant that i'm just about to go on ), I'm on call quite alot, have been doing loads of overtime (which is difficult to claim back the hours due to being short staffed) and frequently get called  up on my day off.  Yesterday after working 6 day's straight, dealing with a resident dying and another resident screaming whilst running towards me saying 'I'm the devil'  - I get called up  - my boss asked me about the job i'm applying for and he kept saying, 'you've got to do a blinding interview sarah, it's gotta be a blinder  or else you won't get the job' for 15mins?!!??  Now he believes I can do the job, but knows that I panic in interviews and lack confidence doing presentations...so how does he think he's helping  ??  Today I went into work and other colleagues kept going on about the job and so i lost it (which I never do) and said quite calmly "if someone else goes on about the f'***ing  job i'm gonna DNA the F***ing interview!! " - which, although harsh made me feel better. 

Wow, i needed that rant, 

Have a good weekend all

Sarah x


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## Cuddles

Hi Emma,

The appointment is with the same doctor whom I spoke to in the family planning clinic.  She is also trained is psychosexual issues but I think the appt is for psychosexual counselling as well as the physical check-up.  I know it's going to be difficult talking to a stranger abt my vag.  During my first appt DH was telling the doctor about my childhood experiences ( possible reasons for my vaginismus) and I just started crying.  The next appt will be longer, we'll have to talk in detail and I'll have to be a brave girl .  

How is your cold?  Hope you are feeling better now.  When is your nxt gynae appointment for dilator no. 3.

Donna - How are you and how was your scan?

Sarah - Sorry to hear abt the problems at work.  Hope that you have a relaxing weekend.


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## Donna Taylor

Cuddles -  I had councelling with the family planning clinic and I found them really nice and sensetive. They didn't make me feel stupid about anything I was feeling and were really understnading and supportive so I hope you have the samepositive experience as I did. It was also the family planning clinic who reffered me for IUI they have been grat with me much more supportive and understanding than GP.
Councelling is very hard at first but if you get a good counceller they should be able to make you feel more comfortable. will DH be coming with you to these sessions?
Hope all goes well for you.

Emma,Sarah and Annie how are you all? Hope you have a good easter.

Had scan yesterday and had quite a few follicles which suprissed me as I am not on any medication. Thinking there may be a possibility that I will release 2 eggs this month but will know more at scan on monday.
At the momment my largest folly on left is 14.5mm and the largets on my right is 11.5mm my linning is 7mm so all looking good but not sure when basting will be yet.

Take care Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil

Hello everybody,

Hope you are all having a lovely easter weekend. Thanks for your kind words - I've just about shaken off the cold now. 

Donna - sounds like everything is progressing well for you.

Cuddles - I cry all the time at my counselling sessions. I feel really stupid doing so too but, at the last one, the doctor said it was good that I did and I shouldn't be ashamed of it. Talking about my childhood brings the tears on for me too. I never cried as a child, so I guess there is a lot of pent-up emotion to let out. During my adult life I always used to cry at the silliest things (weddings, funerals on TV etc), but I've realised that since having counselling I don't do that any more.

Sarah - sounds like you are having a horrendous time at work. Hang on in there!

Annie - hope everything is OK.

I'm off to bake a cake now. I tried making hot cross buns yesterday and they were a disaster, so today's affort has to make up for it.

Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Morning Ladies

I'm feeling the need to confess something that I haven't wanted to admit to myself after realising. Can you all spare me a mo and let me know what you think? You're the only ladies I feel comfortable talking to about this.I haven't spoken to a single person about it.

For almost 3 years I thought that me & DH had been ttc and that simply there was nothing happening. We'd been for tests and given the all clear. My periods were a little all over the place, but clomid seemed to sort that out - and still nothing. We were referred for IVF but have been taking a long break before starting anything. Primarily because of my fear of internals.

Just recently I was talking to a friend about my difficulties with tampons & smears. She then jokingly said to me something along the lines of " he is putting it in". I laughed at the time, but then started to doubt myself. The next time we got it on(!) I felt down there to check - and hell no he's not in there!!!! ...aaaaaahhh!!! 
We've only ever been with each other so clearly we've never noticed there's something not quite right. Panic set in - have we never had sex in the 10 years we've been together?

I feel such an ****. I am beyond embarassed. This cannot be happening to me.

Well,after reading around threads on FF I decided to invest in some lube. We went on holiday recently and used it for the first time - success! Definitely, 100% in there.

Tried again yesterday and could not for love nor money get it in.

I guess in one way I should be a bit relieved that I may have found the reason why things haven't happened naturally, but inside I am just dying with embarassment. How could I not know?

I've been making progress with tampons & internals recently and was going to call the hospital and ask about having IUI instead of IVF as now I'm wondering if I just need help getting the stuff in the right place at the right time

Sorry to yarn on, but I've done it now. I've said it.

Thanks girls x


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## emmadaffodil

Annie - don't be embarrassed. Like you say, if both you and dh hadn't had other sexual experiences how would you know that you weren't doing the 'right' thing. You should be pleased that you have since managed it, and concentrate on that rather than the unsuccessful attempt the other day. My understanding is that even people who manage penetration with no problems have 'off' days where they can't get it in. Could it be the time in your cycle that made a difference; your natural lubrication levels differ at cetain times of the month, I think. Perhaps you were too worried about succeeding?

I would love to know - sorry if this is too nosey - but what does it feel like when it is in? When I use the dilators I feel kind of full; is it like that? Now that I'm finally thinking sex might be possible soon for me i want to know what to expect!

When you did manage penetration, what kind of lube were you using? Some are more sperm-friendly than others. I use Aquagel with the dilators, KY with tampons, and Liquid Silk (much more sperm friendly but less good as lube) when using the syringe. I have tonnes of the stuff scattered all over the house now, and have to rush around hiding it all when someone comes to visit!

Probably would be worth doing IUI rather than IVF though.

Hope you feel a bit better today. My GP told me that she has seen lots of couples who thought they were having sex but who actually weren't. You really shouldn't be embarrassed at all. I think you've done brilliantly well to manage sex on holiday. 

Take care,
Emma, xx

p.s hope everyone else is OK


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## Donna Taylor

Annie -  I agree with everything Emma said you don't have to feel embarrassed at all, take the positives out of the situation. you have since managed to have sex and will again! don't feel bad or beat yourselves up over it neither of you had anything to compare with so how would you have known.
I think IUI would defiantly be the way to go, but have you thought you may not need any medical help at all??

Emma- that is fantastic news that you are thinking about the possibility of having sex, something that you weren't doing a few months ago.
I seem to be the only one here not getting anywhere with vag 

Had scan today and lining is 7.7mm and folly on left side is 17mm. DH is going to inject me tonight to make me ovulate which is a bit scary as he has never injected me before and as you know we didn't use meds in our last cycle, anyway basting will be tommorrow at 11am -  so here we go again!!   

Donna xx


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## AnnieR

Hi Emma, Hi Donna

Thanks v.much for replying to my post. I feel heaps better. 

Emma - I don't mind you asking at all. I just don't know how to describe it to you. All I can say is that when we were succesful I could notice the difference! I guess it does feel full!!! I'm really pleased for you that you're feeling ready to try sex. My top tip for you is to really focus on your muscles down there and tell yourself to relax them. Sounds easy, but I really had to concerntrate.I could feel myself letting go though. We've been using galpharm lubricating jelly. I think it's sperm friendly. When we managed it on holiday I was feeling rather horny (sorry!), maybe it was the margaritas   Anyway, there was more natural lube at that time and I think that's why it worked. I could have taken it or left it the other night and I was quite dry which was what I thought might have been the problem. I don't get alot, if any mucus at anytime of the month.

Donna - It had crossed my mind that we might not need any medical intervention as such. I'd probably be recommended to see the counsellor at the GP's - which I've been doing for my fear of tampons & smears. I just thought that it's all going to come down to learning to relax the muscles again, and I'm making progress with that now on my own. I feel like I know what to do - I just need to practice. I'm going to go for tampons for more than 20mins on my next period & I'm even feeling up for inserting a speculum myself! I really feel like I could do this.

I was then thinking if I can finally be happy with the speculum, I could go for the IUI and me & DH can carry on practicing the natural way in the meantime

What do you reckon?


----------



## emmadaffodil

Donna - good luck today with the basting! How did dh injecting you go? Do the meds increase your chances? Does it make the whole thing cost a lot more too?

Annie - glad you are sounding more positive. I will try and follow your tips on relaxing the muscles when the time comes. I have to concentrate on relaxing when I use the dilators - sounds like a contradiction in terms doesn't it! Sorry -another personal Q - do you put dh's penis into yourself (I think I would have to do that) or does he do it?

I definately think you don't need IVF yet. You might not even need IUI? Do you have a speculum to practice with? I'm sure you'll manage tampons next period. Sounds like you've made fantastic progress in a short time! well done!

I've got counselling today. Feeling apprehensive already.

Emma, xx


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## Sarah R

Hi all,

Just a quickie as i have handover in a minute.  

Annie, I can only echo what everyone else has said, concentrate on the positive side of things, embarassment is a nasty emotion and doesn't benefit anyone. 

Donna & Emma best of luck for today  !

Hi Cuddles!

take care everyone
Sarah x


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## AnnieR

Afternoon All

Emma - I put it in myself, or as far as I can before my hand gets in the way!!! I have got a speculum and I'm thinking of trying it out tonight. I'm getting fed up with my friends getting pg - time to take action into my own hands - ha ha ha!!! Scuse the pun!
Hope the counselling goes alright today. Let us know how it went xxx

Sarah - Thanks v.much for your support.

Donna - Hope everything goes well for you today too 

TTFN - speak to you all later xxxx


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## Donna Taylor

Annie -  IUI could be the way to go as that is what me and DH decided. we are having IUI while still concentrating on overcoming the vag in the mean time and hopefully conceiving our second child naturally.
One thing I will say is that once you start IUI it kinda takes over and for us it made trying to have sex less important, especially as we can fully satisfy each other without it.

Emma -  thinking of you today hope councelling goes well, try not to be to nervous you are doing so well hold your head up high and go in there proud,cause you chould be after all you have achieved!

Finally got basted at 12pm today, by a male doctor 
He was really nice and made me feel relaxed (as I can be!)
Everything looks good so got 7million little swimmers uo there so hopefully 1 will find the way! He did an ultra sound so I saw them going in!
The injection doesn't effect the chance of it working it was just to make me ovulate I could have waited for it to happen naturally but was easier this month for us to know when it was happening.

Hi Sarah hope you are ok?

Donna xx
P.s Dh just handed me a plate of pineapple, which is ment to help with inplantation


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## emmadaffodil

Hello all,

Thanks for your kind words. Counselling was good but, as always, quite traumatic! I cried yet again! I've spent weeks trying not to cry (but usually failing) but this time she said I wasn't crying enough and was still holding back my emotions!
We were talking about feeling sexy - I never do. Do the rest of you? How do you do it? Does it come naturally? Also she says I focus too much on the negative things in my life. She reckons if I can learn to be positive about life in general and myself then I'll start to feel sexy. Don't have a clue how to do that (ooops, being negative again).

Donna - well done! I'll be keeping my fingers crossed. Keep eating the pineapple! Your dh sounds lovely!

Annie - good luck with the speculum!

Sarah, Cuddles  - hope you are well!

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

Emma,

I have to say I laughed at what you said about negativity. I am exactly the same! I always focus on negative things and never look ' on the bright side' luckly DH is usually the opposite so I guess we balance out well.

In anwser to your question about feeling sexy, I always feel sexy when I dress up and I don't mean kinky stuff but thats an individual choice.
Have you tried some sexy underwear? Le senza do some really nice stuff.
I have a couple of little bra dressie type things, not sure what they are called, it really helps get me going (sorry if tmi)

Donna xx

P.s If I get pregnant this time baby will be due around 19th December. If it is born on xmas day I really will be the virgin mary!


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## AnnieR

Hey Emma - I have to say I somewhat agree with your Consellor on the feeling sexy thing. I feel sexy when I focus on the good things in life. My best friend & I send each other a silly e-mail whenever one of us sounds down, always ending -"You are a strong beautiful woman". Sounds bloody corny, but makes you giggle and sometimes a bit "yeah I am". Another way of feeling sexy is a new haircut - works for me everytime. Then get DH to take you out for dinner or a drink. My biggest thing lately is getting angry and refusing to be beaten by this. Hey - Don't get mad, get pregnant. Show this son of a ***** that dealt us this obstacle in life that it will no beat you.

Donna - LOL!!! Virgin Mary - that's got to be destiny surely!!!

Definitely think IUI is the way to go for us. Do you think I need to get comfortable with a speculum first though? I'm guessing there will be some "internal" type things needed for this treatment? How are you managing it?


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## Donna Taylor

Annie,

Before I had an IUI cycle I had a 'practice go' to see if I could cope. The hospital was very understanding and booked me in for a long appointment so there was no need to rush.
For the treatment you will need to have at least a couple of vaginal scans (more if you need medication) I don't find the scans to bad they seem to go in very easily and the scan is very quick only takes a few mins, I don't know how you'll be but now that I have had a few of them and I am more relaxed with the surroundings etc I don't find them painfull at all.
The IUI its self is a different matter!
Thankfully it is a quick procedure about 10mins max so I am able to bare it for that length of time, They use the smallest spectulum they have which is still painfull but MOST of the people who have treated me have read my notes and are very understanding of the situation. The sperm is then placed into the womb through a cafiter which doesn't hurt although on the first cycle I did experience some very mild cramping sensations, like period pain but they were mild. The main problem I have is the spectulum but I kinda grin and bare it I think my want for a child takes over.
I had a man do it today and he was much more gentle and considerate, I think sometimes women have the attitude of 'don't know what she is making all the fuss about' -  but maybe I am paranoid! He also got me to place my hands under my bottom which I thought was strange as I haven't been asked to do that before but it did seem to help, and once the spectulum was in place it didn't hurt as much as it has done in the past the position felt much better.

Don't know if this helps as I don't know where you are but I am being treated at GUYS Hospital.
The first doctor I saw who works in the gynea unit and assisted conception was called Emma Sowerby, she was brilliant and got the ball rolling for me as they were unsure if I would be able to have treatment as my problem isn't a fertility one as such, she was great! she also arranged the 'practice go' which she did herself.

Hope that helps, please ask anything else you want/need to

Take care Donna xx


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## AnnieR

Thanks Donna, that's kind of what I was imagining. I had a go with the speculum last night. I managed to get it in most of the way, but I did find it still a little bit painful and almost like it just didn't want to go in there. I know that has to be me not relaxing properly again.

I'm going to persevere with it though, I guess it was only my first time. A little everyday maybe?? I like the idea of putting your hands under your bum. Maybe I could try a simlar thing with a cushion?

I just feel like I need to get to a reasonable stage before I go back to the hospital. I don't want to waste an appointment by freaking out when I get there.


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## emmadaffodil

Donna - I did laugh at the idea of the Virgin Mary! 

Perhaps some new sexy undies might help me! We are going on holiday soon so I'm going to make an effort to dress up, wear make-up, and treat it like going on dates with my dh. 

Annie - that's great that you got the speculum in some of the way. Keep practicing and you'll get there. I put my bottom on a cushion or 2 when I use the dilators and find that helps.

Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Emma - Can you tell me a bit about dilators? Did you get given them? Do you think it's worth trying them first? I read a bit about them and it seems like you can then build up slowly. I wondered if a speculum was too big a jump from tampons!!!


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## Donna Taylor

Annie,

I was given the Dilators from my gynecologist, They start at size 1 (which I have never seen as they had run out!) and go up to a size 8 I think.
I was at first given a size 2 and 3. I found it easier to work with them while I was in the bath but that is a personal choice.
I have stopped using the dilators as wanted DH to be more involved, Gynea told me to use the dilators in our bedroom antics but I really couldn't find them sexy so have since got some vibrators which I quite nice to use as DH can insert them plus they get me more aroused than I hard piece of plastic so are easier to insert.
Plus and sorry if this is TMI but the vibrators can be more naturally shaped if you get me, so I am thinking may make the jump from vibrators/dilators to DH inserting himself less scary.

Anyway hope that made sense and me telling you my experiences helps you

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil

Annie,

I also got my dilators from my gynaecologist. I was referred to him by my GP because of the vaginismus. I think mine must be a different type to Donna's. Mine come in sizes 1 to 4. and are made of glass, but some are made of plastic or wax I think. I only have sizes 1 and 2 at the moment. I've just measured them for you . Number 1 is 9.5 cm long (excluding handle on the end) and 2.5 cm wide/diameter. Number 2 is 10.5 cm long and 3 cm wide. looking at it, number 1 is about the width of my index and middle finger, but a bit longer, and number 2 is a bit bigger again. I don't actually find the length a problem, just getting the tip in in the first place. If i have plenty of lube, the length just seems to slide in. I'm sure they'd be easier to get in than a speculum though. Mind you, as Donna says, a vibrator might be much more fun!

You can get dilators on the internet. I've seen them at www.pharmacy2you.co.uk, although theirs look really ugly!

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

I couldn't have the nice glass ones because they "couldn't find them" when I had my appointment so I ended up with black pastic, mine are also hollow so I can put my fingers inside them when trying to insert.
I'm not actually sure what size they go up to but some girls on a Vaginismus chat site talked about a size 8, but I don't know.

Now I haven' tried this but....... my Gynae also suggested that I could try houshold objects! at first I thought this was silly but when I thought more about it it does make sense. if there is something you have that you feel comfortable with the size off them why not put a condom over it and use it?
then you can use anything, carrotts, candles anything you like. personnaly I felt a little weird about trying it but thought I'd mention it

Donna xx


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## Sarah R

Hallo everyone,

I'm at work at the mo, and am quite pleased with myself as I've just managed to balance the monthly accounts for the first time single handedly - Hoorah!

I rang the GP surgery yesterday to see if my referral letter had been written (2 weeks have gone by) - it hadn't, and i was informed that my GP is on annual leave and to try speaking to the secretary today.  In the meantime I contacted Barts, to see if I could self refer and send the GP letter ASAP - but alas no.  I spoke to the secretary (who didn't even know that her Doctor was on annual leave??) and the letter hasn't been dictated yet?  I ask ya...

On the subject of positivity - self talk is supposed to be quite good, having a small mantra can be useful eg 'I am strong and I can do this' you're supposed to repeat it throughout the day.  I generally have a word with myself whilst on the loo!?!  Also, I definately agree with the hair cut idea.

You all seem to be developing well with the vag which is good, size 8 dilator - that can bugger off! 

take care everyone
Sarah


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## Donna Taylor

Sarah,

I am assuming you are not in england otherwise you were at work at midnight!!..urrrgh coudn't manage that.
wel done on balancing the accounts, how is work going for you now?

that is really bad about you GP and the letter, sometimes they really don't understand how important these thingsare to use. hope you get it sorted really soon

Donna xx


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## AnnieR

Oh my word - so much great advice!!!! Thanks Ladies

Definitely going to give the vibrators a go. Will maybe also order some dilators and thinking about any household goods I might have that would do the job!!!

I'll keep you all posted as always! Although I'll tell you right now size 8 is not going to happen!

Donna- how are you doing on the 2ww I'm so excited for you. Feeling any different, other than driving yourself mad

Sarah - Get back on the phone to that GP surgery and don't take no for an answer!!! Is there not anyone else there that can write it for you

Emma- How are you feeling after your conselling session?


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## Donna Taylor

hi everyone,

2ww is driving me crazy  
and its only day 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

last time the first week was ok with me going slighlty insane through second week, this time it is different. Trying not to think abaout it but that easier said than done, hopefully starting new job on monday will take my mind of it. weel from8-6 anyway.

Hope everyone is well?

Emma have you got your exam results or is it to early can't remeber when you said they wee in.

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil

Hi everyone!

Well, in my efforts to feel more sexy I am wearing makeup today (a rare thing) and big earrings; I don't recognise myself in the mirror! I am going to do this for the next couple of weeks, until the next counselling sesion, and see if it makes me feel different and if men react differently towards me! And I will get my hair done next week!

Donna - sorry you're finding the 2ww do hard! I bet the new job will take your mind off it for a day or two. Will you have far to travel? 
Don't really know when to expect the exam results - probably not before May (we were helpfully told sometime between late April and August!).

Sarah - well done on the accounts. Sorry the GP is being so slow. Don't you wish sometimes they could just be honest and say that they aren't going to get round to doing things for several weeks. I've also had the experience of doctors not seeming to talk to their secretaries. Keep hassling them until they do it!

Annie, Cuddles - hope you are well.

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

Good on you Emma, Having my hair done always makes me feel great, ummm maybe I could get mine done tommorrow?


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## AnnieR

Evening Ladies!!!

I can totally recommend re modelling your house to feel sexy! We've just had an architect over and he was talking big bathrooms, en-suite, dining room - Did it for me!!!

Well the idea of it sounds good anyway. The 6 months of planning permission & 4 months of building sounds like a terrible idea, especially when ttc. When would I get time to relax and play with dilators & speculums with builders popping in and out all the time!!!!


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## emmadaffodil

Annie - you could be right. I certainly spend more time in my bathroom since it has been renovated. Not sure there's much scope (or funds) to do much with the rest of the house though. I couldn't cope with 4 months of builders; I had them for 3 weeks and was losing my mind at the end of it! Mind you, I work from home so we really were stuck with each other all day long!

Donna - how are you feeling? Did you get your hair done?!

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

No hair cut for me did half heartedly mention it to DH but it was a no go, really don't have money for things like that at the mo as I have been off for 2 weeks unpaid and there is the cost of treatment so hopefully once I 've started new job and finances are a bit straighter.

Getting period pains today which as I found out last month aren't a sign of one thing or another just annoys me that I will feel rubbish for the rest of 2ww, which is ok if I get a BFP but lets face it a BFN is more likely.

hello to cuddles, Sarah and Annie

take care Donna xx


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## AnnieR

Woah, woah, woah Donna - you don't know that for sure. It ain't over til the fat lady sings as they say. Try and stay positive. You may be pleasantly surprised!!!


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## emmadaffodil

Donna - Annie is right. I understand you wanting to prepare yourself for the worst, but you just don't know yet! Isn't it too early for period pains? Could be a good sign?! Perhaps it is just your body reacting to all that poking and prodding by the doctors?

Even though I know my odds of a BFP are really zero (1 failed attempt with the syringe where at best 1ml of semen was gathered, and 2 lots of fooling around without penetration) I still have this faint hope that it might magically have worked! Silly really. Not even sure I ovulated this month. AF due on Monday. Got my ovulation tests today. Going to use those next month.

Hope everyone else is good. Have a great weekend and enjoy the sunshine!

Emma, xx


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## Sarah R

Hi everyone,

Emma, Good on you for the hair earings and makeup, it's surprising how little things such as makeup make a difference but they do  

Donna, I agree with the others, hang on in there...this cycle is this cycle.... incase I don't have a chance to log on over the weekend, best of luck for starting the job on Monday!

Hi Annie !

Sorry to say I was working at midnight....I live and work in Cambridge (26 bed psychiatric rehab centre)and do 'sleep in' shifts once a week, whereby you work 3pm - 11pm sleep over and are available for emergencies and are back on shift at 8am - 3pm.  It's a little weird, especially as you're the only staff member and given the histories of some of the people...2 murderers, 2 manslaughterers, someone that sees maggie thatcher, another that believes god speaks through him and one that doesn't speak any english.   Come the end of next month we will be having 2 staff over night which is good! (though means that I'll probably be doing 2 sleep ins a week).  Overal the job is great, I've laughed every day since I started which is nearly 3 yrs now.

no news on the interview front....just that it's going to be moved to a later date?!

Ta everyone for the advice re- Gp, though think that i'll wait for a bit longer, before making a fuss.

Enjoy the weekend
Sarah xx


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## emmadaffodil

Donna - just wanted to wish you all the best with your new job tomorrow! 

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

Hi,

Emma - Thank you for wishing me luck, I am still quite excited but I'm sure the nervres will kick in soon.

Hope all you girls had a lovely weekend in the sunshine  

Donna xx


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## AnnieR

Morning Ladies ...

or at least I think it is?!?! I've been on my best friends hen night this weekend. I am feeling rather sorry for myself today. I've had hardly any sleep and still hungover I think? How I'm going to get throught today I have no idea.

I did have a good time though even though 3 of my friends spent the entire weekend talking about the fact that since last month they are all trying to conceive. I was listening to them give each other completely false info about conception & pregnancy - but couldn't be arsed to correct them. I sat there smiling most of the time, but could feel the green monster bubbling away inside of me!!! 

Anyhoo, if I pull my finger out and get on with IUI, I might not be too far behind them.

In the office today the 2 ladies on my team who are both pregnant are currently comparing scan pictures. Are they gonna catch a hint in a minute and shut up or what

I knew I should have stayed in bed today!


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## emmadaffodil

Hello everyone,

Annie - sorry you're having such a tough day! You might even get pg before your friends if they have all the wrong info! 

Donna - how did your first day go? I saw that you were on FF really early this morning!

Well, I did get my hair done, and it looked great for all of 5 minutes. It was pouring with rain and I couldn't find my umbrella, so now it is a horrible frizzy mess again (but slightly shorter).   I've noticed that since I've begun my campaign to feel sexier that old bald-headed men are beginning to flirt with me!

Hope everyone else is OK.

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

sorry girls only a quicky as got home and had to rush cat to the vet, and they are keeping her in over night  
First day went well thanks for you support, Emma its great to hear that the changes are havg an efftect 

sorry will try to post more tommorrow

Donna xx


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## AnnieR

Morning All!


Sarah - Hi, how are you doing?

Donna - How's your cat doing Looking forward to hearing about your first day.

Emma - 10 out of 10 for effort with the hair. Typical that it then goes and rains on you!!! Sounds like it had the desired effect for a short while though! Who knows- bald men this time, full fledged studs the next?!?!

A chappie approached me on Saturday night while I was out on my friends hen night. Well actually he was a dancer in Stringfellows! Anyway, he shouted across my group of friends to me and this is how the conversation went - 
Dancer - "You've got lovely long legs". 
Me -  "Ta v.much" 
Dancer - " You should consider leg modelling"
Me - "Why, what's wrong with my face?!?!"

The poor guy was mortified. All the girls were laughing at him. Ha ha ha!!!


----------



## emmadaffodil

Good morning!

Donna - how is your cat? I hope she will be OK. I'm so glad your first day at work went well. How is the 2ww? Goodness, you have got a lot going on at the moment!

Annie - your story did make me laugh!! Hope you have recovered from the hen night now. I'm not sure that I actually want to pick up men here there and everywhere, but I'd forgotten how much fun flirting could be!


Sarah, Cuddles - hello!

Emma, xx


----------



## Donna Taylor

Cat is fine thanks, had an operation to cut the absis out, looks really bad! all stitched up now we have some pils to give her twice a day, not sure how she will like those. all cost £188 but atleast she sould be ok.

A lot on -  your telling me.

hope your all well sorry for the quick posts just soooooo busy

Donna xx


----------



## emmadaffodil

Donna - so glad to hear that your cat is OK. Vets cost a fortune don't they! I've got 2 dogs who are forever injuring themselves. I have pet insurance and that has more than covered what I've paid out. Out of interest, do people tell you that you cat is a child substitute? I get people saying that to me all the time. I've had complete strangers look at me and them and say 'can you not have children dear?'. It makes me so angry!

Hope everyone else is good.

Emma, xx


----------



## AnnieR

Hi Everyone

Just checking in to say all is well with me. Other than all my friends are or are trying to be pregnant and I'm desperate to start IUI. Must get practicing with that speculum!!!

Donna - When is 2ww up? Any positive signs yet?


----------



## Donna Taylor

Hi all, another quicky from me,

Job going well so far, but I am really tired and H ave had so much other stuff happening that I have be coming home later too....arrrgh hopefully next week will be calmer.

On to 2ww - new job has helped me loads, I hardly think about it obviously it pops into my head all the time but I haven't had time to stew on it. trying to be carefull lifting children though.
Dont have any signs either way at the moment, which I guess I could take to be a positive sign but you never now.

Take care

Donna xx


----------



## emmadaffodil

Hope everyone is OK.

Donna - have a good rest this weekend. You must be exhausted! Any symptoms yet?! How is your cat now?

Annie - have you tried the speculum yet?! I reckon that would be harder than a dilator.

Hope everyone has a great weekend. Let's hope it stops raining/sleeting/hailing.

Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Afternoon All

Emma- I haven't had another go with the speculum yet. I haven't really had a chance!!! I will go for it again this weekend though. I'm determined to crack this - and asap!

Oh pooh- the boss has walked in. Will come back later!


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## emmadaffodil

Annie - good luck! With your determination I'm sure you'll manage it sooner or later! You sound very positive about the prospect.

Hope everyone else is OK.

I'm due to ovulate on Sunday, so we'll have another go with the syringe! Can't help wondering what disasters will occur this month (why does something always happen on the crucial days).

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

Hi everyone,

Emma - hope nothing happens for you this weekend so you can really get cracking with that syringne on sunday  

Annie - good luck with the spectulum

I have started to get mild AF pains so I am not holding out much hope. I know the pains could mean I'm pregnant but things like that just don't seem to happen to me. its always so gutting to see the BIG FAT NEGATIVE line on the test thats worse that having AF i think!
anyway waffeling now, hope you are all ok and enjoying the weekend

take care Donna xx


----------



## AnnieR

Morning Ladies


Had success with the speculum on Friday evening - in the bath!!! Sat reading O.K magazine surrounded with bubbles and thought I'd try popping it in as I read about the world of glitz & glamour. Tilted my pelvis slightly and the darned thing slipped right in! No pain whatsoever. Fan-bloody-tastic. 
Sooo, I'm going to give it a few more goes in the bath, just to make sure it wasn't a fluke and then progress to dry land again! 
I'm calling the clinic on Friday as I'm off that day and telling then I'm systems go for IUI. Might be a bit premature, but I thought by the time they're ready to see my bits I will hopefully have made real progress.

Emma - Wishing you lots of luck today with the syringe. Lock yourself and DH away from the outside world, unplug the phone - any disasters can wait til tomorrow. Today it baby making day.

Donna - 100% support you on the negative line on a pg test. I refuse to do them now as they're mega depressing. Don't panic just yet though. I've got everything crossed that everything you're feeling is a positive sign.

Speak to you soon xxx


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## Donna Taylor

Annie,

well done on inserting the spectulum, that is fantastic news and evern more fantastic that you will be joining the IUI rollacoaster.
Can I ask you, when you insert the spectulum once it is inside are you then opening it up?

Emma,

Hope all goes well for you today

Donna xx


----------



## emmadaffodil

Hello everyone!

Annie - that is fantastic news about the speculum! Well done! You must be delighted. Great news about starting the IUI rollercoaster too. 

Donna - hang on in there. Don't give up hope yet. Are you testing on Tuesday? How's the cat, by the way?

I used one of those ovulation sticks today. No LH surge yet. As a result, we tried actually having sex, rather than using the syringe. I couldn't get it in (sorry if TMI), but almost did, so I was quite pleased. Last time I tried was with me on top, as I'd heard that was easier, but this time it was him on top and I think that will be easier for me! We'll try the syringe later today though! 

Hope everyone else had a good weekend.

Emma, xx


----------



## Sarah R

Hello Everyone,

Annie - Congratulations with the progress!! 

Donna - glad that the job seems to be ok, sorry to hear about your cat, and good luck with testing

Emma, - hope things went smoothly with the syringe.

It's my first interview and written test on tuesday for the deputy manager job, feeling quite stressed..not helped by the fact that my weekend was quite stressful - waiting on the side of the M11 as a friends car broke down, and then only got towed to the next junction....first saturday night out in a month and I spend the beginning of it on a hard shoulder...still made up for it later finishing with a party that ended at 5:30 this morning!
take care 
Sarah x


----------



## emmadaffodil

Hello all,

Sarah - good luck with the interview and test tomorrow! How do you stay partying until 5.30 am; I can barely stay awake past 10 pm!

Donna - how are things? I'm thinking of you. You must be starting to go out of your mind now. Best of luck tomorrow (if that is when you are testing).

Annie - any more speculum fun? I'm so impressed that you can do it in the bath etc and read and relax at the same time, making it a (reasonably) pleasant experience. I wish I could do that with the dilators. I tend to treat it as business rather than pleasure! I've tried listening to music and reading but I get too distracted!

Well, last night we did fill and insert the syringe successfully. I also tried inserting dh's finger (sorry if TMI) ; I could do it when I held onto it and guided it in, but when he stried to put it in himself all the muscles clammed up. I'm still not ovulating though, so we may have been a bit premature with the syringe. I've been rereading my many fertility books and I'm thoroughly confused now as to how long sperm can live and on which days they are useful. Hopefully we can have another go tonight!

I've got a fun vaginismus-packed week this week - psychosexual counselling tomorrow and I get dilator number 3 on Wednesday!

Take care everyone,

Emma, xx


----------



## AnnieR

Afternoon Everyone

First I just have to get this off my chest -aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!!! That was good. I am so mad this afternon   My Boss is the biggest wench - EVER!!! Sorry girls - bad day at the office

Deep breath... O.K

Emma - Don't panic about DH's finger. I'm not very good when it comes to my DH going in there. Maybe it's a control thing for me?!?! I know what you mean with using the dilators as being businesslike. I reckon the bath thing worked because it's a daily event, nothing out of the ordinary. When I do it on dry land (Ha ha!) it feels like I'm making a big thing of it. Why don't you give the dilators a go in the bath or shower? Good Luck with counselling tomorrow. Try not to worry about it. See it as positive steps towards achieving your dream. Oh and I think sperm lives for 3-5 days.

Donna- I haven't been brave enough to crank the speculum open once I've got it in. I was just so excited I'd got it in at all I didn't hang around to do anything with it! That does scare me a bit. Maybe I should give it a go soon.Any news on the 2ww? 

Sarah - Fair play to you staying out til 5.30. I made it to 4am last Saturday night on my best friends hen night. Paid for it on Sunday & Monday though!!! Round 2 this Saturday as it's the wedding and I'm sure it's tradition for the bridemaids to get totally wasted!

Love & Best wishes to you all xxx


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## Donna Taylor

Annie - Don't be to scared about opein the spectulum up, and please don't think I was being funny by asking you, its fantastic how well you are doing in a short space of time I wasn't taking anything away from you just wasn't sure how you were doing it thats all (hope that made sense)

Sarah - Good luck with test and interview tommorrow - you go knock um dead girl!!!!!

Emma - well doen for yor progress over the weekend,as for he life of sperm I have read somewhere it is 3-5 days but also read it is 5 - 7 days so I always go on 5 days and you should be ok.
The sperm could be in the right place once the egg is released as you haven't ovulated yet so fingers crossd for you.

Well very confussed as to what is going on with me. No AF as yet but no AF pains today either, did feel sick this morning which I usually do when AF is on her way, will have to see what est tommorrow brings 

Donna xx


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## AnnieR

Morning!

Donna - I didn't think you were being funny at all. I could tell you were just asking and I really appreciate it. Very very very good luck for today. I am crossed everywhere in hope for a BFP!


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## emmadaffodil

Hello,

Donna - good luck! I'm on tenterhooks waiting for your news!

Sarah - good luck too! You'll be great. When's the 2nd interview?

Annie - hope you have a better day today!

Had another go with the syringe last night, and kept it inside me for half an hour afterwards - thought it might stop the sperm falling out again! Still not ovulating, although today's test was a bit more ambiguous; perhaps I'm slightly ovulating!

Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Emma - How about using the digital ovulating kits. That was theres none of this holding it to the light and squinting to see if there's a difference in the colour of the lines. With the digitial ones it's a definite yes or no!


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## emmadaffodil

Evening all,

I've been on and off this site all day long waiting for Donna's news! 

Annie - good idea about the digital tests. I've just done another one (my second today!), also ambiguous. I'll have to make dh fill the syringe again tonight! Poor man.

Sarah - how was the interview?

Counselling today was really, really good! It's the first time I've come away not feeling traumatised by the experience! I have to learn to relax, have fun, and not be a control freak, apparently (whilst also being sexy and positive-thinking, I presume). My experiment with wearing make-up, doing my hair properly etc is proving quite a success, actually (apart from getting more spots). More men are flirting with me, although still noone under the age of about 50! 

Emma, xx


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## Essex Girl

Dear all

This is the first time I have come across any forum for discussing vag.  I still feel awkward about admitting to it - society is so sex-orientated that you are made to feel like a freak if you're not at all the time.

I spent a long time being single and then met DH when I was in my early 30s.  We went to Relate which helped up to a point but hasn't cured things completely.  We took our time to buy a house together and get married so I didn't think seriously about having a baby until I was 38, going on 39.  (DH not too bothered either way whether we have chhildren or not) and now it looksa as if I may have left it too late.... 

It may feel like admitting defeat to go for home insemination/IUI but at the end of the day, if you want a baby, go for it.  You've got the rest of your life to sort out the other things.

We have had some success with IUI - 2 out of 3 took, but both failed soon after (I'm told that's probably an age thing), so not sure how much more to do now.

The only problem with any IUI or IVF is that they have to poke and prod you about inside.  The scan probe isn't so bad, but the speculum used for IUI/ET is vey uncomfortable,  You just have to grit your teeth and bear it.  But in reality it's only a few minutes.

Anyway, good luck to all of you with your fertility attempts- don't let the vag get the better of you!

Essex Girl


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## Donna Taylor

Sorry I kept you waiting, tested this morning and a BIG BIG FAT NEGATIVE   still no AF though. Feel shattered 

Emma - are you using clear blue? I always find that it shows a faint line a couple of days before ovulation then gets darker each day, so sounds like you will be ovulating in the next day or two. Good luck.

Sarah - how was your day?

Thank you all for your posts

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil

Donna, 

I'm so, so sorry that it was a BFN. You poor thing. Any chance that you tested a day or two early? Don't give up hope until AF arrives.

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

Tested with clueblue this morning and when I got home form work I tested with and early indicator one which I got from the internet last cycle but both negative, I hoping I still may be preg but think I am kidding myself really


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## AnnieR

Emma - So pleased to hear you had a good session at counselling. Everything the counsellor told you is so true. I kept hearing that I had to relax, but it's not as easy as that is it!!! You'll get there though hun and we're here for you all the way xxx

Donna - I am so sorry you had a BFN today. Like Emma said keep the faith until you see AF. Try and keep positive, it's still not over.


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## emmadaffodil

Hello everyone!

Essex girl - welcome! It's good to hear from another vag person. You have had a tough time. Do you mind me asking, can you have sex now? How long did it take from starting the counselling to managing sex? Did you use dilators?
I can just about cope with the doctors poking and prodding me, but sex is anothber matter entirely. For me it is easy to say no and to stop myself or dh causing me pain, whereas with a doctor it seems rude.

Donna - how are you? I'm thinking of you.


Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

Hi everyone,

Had a really down day today but had to keep it all in as obviously nobody at my new job knows my situation.
Friends have not been that supportive which has really got me down to.
Hospital have said they may reccomend that our next cycle whenever we decide to have it, is one using medicaton, not sure how I feel about that makes it all that bit more scary and expensive.

thank you all for your posts.

Donnaxx

p.s sorry if I am a bit down and needy for a while I apologise in advance xx


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## emmadaffodil

Donna - no need to apologise. I'd be devastated too if it were me. Your time will come though, and you will be a fantastic mother. How is dh bearing up? It must be so hard for you at work trying to act like nothing has happened. 
Whatever you feel, don't bottle it up. Come on here and post whatever is going through your mind. 

I wish I could do something to help, but I know I can't do or say anything that will. 

Emma, xx


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## emmadaffodil

Just wondering, do doctors read these posts? I went to see the gynae consultant today (got dilator number 3 which is massive, but managed to get it in at the hospital). He made some throw away remark which I'm sure was something I'd only said on here. Freaked me out a bit! I've nothing to hide from him but was surprised that he had either the time or inclination to come on here. 

Emma, xx


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## Candy

New home for you ladies, great to see this thread growing and getting more support, Emma pm'ed me to change the spelling of the title, hope I have done it right.

Love & best wishes to all Candy xx


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## Candy

Emma, I am sure they don't but maybe if he didn't know much on it, he could have done a search on the net, but I am sure he hasn't xx

New home this way, a little early, but you were almost there anyway

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=27300.new#new

Candy x


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## emmadaffodil

Thanks Candy!

Donna  - how are you feeling today? Has af arrived yet?

Hope everyone else is OK.

I've still not got a clear ovulation using the pee sticks. Starting to think that they are useless (also had slight panic that I might never ovulate again and am about to have an early menopause, then told myself to stop being so ridiculous!). Poor dh has been doing the business into the syringe for days now! Had yet another go this morning, but I think that will be it for this month; af would normally be due in 12 days time. I'm beginning to wonder how anyone ever gets pg!
I'm going to see the Vagina Monologues tomorrow as part of my quest to get to the bottom of this sex lark! Old me would never have done this, but I'm quite looking forward to it.

Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Hi Emma

You must let us know what the vagina monolgues is like.I hope you have a fantastic evening. Sorry you're not having any luck with the pee sticks. Try giving the digital ones a go next month before you write them off all together. You might have a bit more success with them.

I'm bridesmaid at my best friends wedding on Saturday, so I might not get a chance to have a chat til Sunday now. I hope you all have a fab weekend. Think of me starving myself to get into that dress. Little too late though!

Candy - thanks for the new home

Donna, Sarah, Essex Girl - hope you're all well.


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## Donna Taylor

Annie - have a great time at the wedding I love being bridesmaid!

Emma - it is possible that you may not have ovulated this month or you are having a longer cycle this month, try not to worry about it I am sure everything will be fine.

AF arrived this morning but feel ok about it, atleasts its over now.
got some infomation throuhg about a new clinic so may be trying there but we will see. also hoping that I can get the time off in June so our next cycle will be in june instead of Aug but have to see what work say and as I have only been there 2 weeks can hardly demand time off.

take care Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil

Donna - ask for time off nearer the time. Would you be due any holiday by then? Which clinic are you thinking of changing to? Perhaps having a month or two away from the stress of ttc will help. It really does take over your life doesn't it. My GP warned me about this and at the time I thought she was exaggerating.

Annie - have a great wedding! Is your dress nice? I really want to go to a wedding, but don't know anyone who is getting married. I've only been to 1 wedding in my life (other than my own). My friends are either resolutely single or run away and get married in secret!

Sarah, Essex girl, Cuddles - hope you are all OK. Have a great weekend! I'm off on holiday on Saturday (Toronto/Niagara falls/Montreal) for a week, and have a mad day tomorrow, so may not post for a while. How will I manage without FF?! 

Take care everyone,
Emma, xx


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## Sarah R

Donna - Really sorry to hear about your BFN - hope that you have luck with looking at the new clinic.

Emma - Glad that the counselling is going well, hope you enjoyed the V Monologues.

Annie - Sounds like you are making excellent progress !

Essex girl - Hi, just how essex are you? I'm orginally from Grays thurrock, and i'm sure that you can't get more essexy than that?  It's good to hear from new people .

My interview was really cool thanks, I was pleased with my performance and have got through to the second interview which is on Tuesday.  My boss, reckons i have to sell myself more and be more confident - any ideas? 
I think I've made my boss sounds like a tyrant and he isn't - just trying to motivate me I think.  Found out about my presentation today and so am going to have a mad time till tuesday trying to write it, practice it, produce a handout and seperate summary and revise for the interview, whilst working for much of the weekend - no parties for me then! still come Tuesday 2pm I shall be happily necking a few  .  
Take care
many thanks
Sarah x


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## Donna Taylor

Well done sarah, and good luck for tursday.

Emma you lucky thing going on holiday I am very very jelous!!

Looks like we may not be trying a new clinic as far more expensive than what we are paying now so don't think we can stretch to it, in fact I know we cant.

I've put in a holiday form at work so hope to have treatment again at the end of june, only problem being that because of all the scans I will need to take 2 weeks of so if that fails not sure we will be able to have another go this year!! so stressed with it all at the moment

Have a nice weekend everyone Donna xx


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## Essex Girl

Hi all

Yes, I'm still here but I don't like posting on this strand from work - you never know when someone might come in and I would die of embarrassment if anyone saw what I am saying here.  

I have replied to Emma's query by private message.

I was amazed by how many people have read this strand -650 when I last looked.  That says to me that there are a lot of people who could be in the same situation, and there's not much support about for people with vag, so keep up the good work.

Donna - good luck with the IUI.  It's difficult organising time off for scans, especially if you don't want anyone at work to know what you are doing.  I have continued at work during all my treatments and have told the people who need to know.  They have all been great about it, and they take an interest in how I am getting on.  The people not in the know may have put 2 and 2 together by now.  The main thing is to try and take it easy after the IUI, which can be easier said than done if you are at work.

Good luck to all the rest of you

xxx  Essex Girl  (Sarah - I may be using this name under false pretences as I was not born in the county but have lived in Southend since I was 15, so you are the real Essex Girl, I think!!!)


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## AnnieR

Morning Ladies!!!

I have returned finally!!! A whole weekend away from FF is awful - although I  have had an amazing weekend. The wedding was just perfect. I had the time of my life (as the song says) - vag & ttc seemed a million miles away.

Had a lush lie in today which was sooo needed after partying from Friday tea time to late last night. My kidney's must be pickled! Back to water for me again now.

So back to practicing with my speculum. Had a go with a vibrator (sorry tmi). I couldn't get it right in, but cetainly alot further than before. And to be fair it's quite bloody big! Think AF is on it's way so I can really make a go of using tampons this time.

Still reading through your messages over the weekend, but I'll chat to you all about your news asap

take care for now everyone xxx


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## Donna Taylor

Annie,

Glad you had a good weekend, that really was a lot of partying you did   
You managed to get the vibrator in that is great! doesn't matter how far it was in some way and that is all that counts.
goodluck with the spectulum and tampons.

I always want to use tampons but when AF arrives I just cant be bothered. reallt shoukd get back into my whole trying to beat vag thing. ttc as taken over my life, and to be frank knocked my sex drive a bit to. don't really in the mood just before treatment, or after it as quite sore, then there is AF so doesn't leave much time for 
No more treatment till June so maybe I can get cracking this month.

Take care everyone hope you are all well.

Emma - are you ok don't seem to have heard from you in a while?

Donna xx


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## AnnieR

Morning Girls

Just wondering how everyone is doing? All is alright with me, except I seem to be avoiding calling the hospital and asking them about doing IUI. You can only call them between 9:30 & 11am, so I'd have to use my mobile at work. Finding a quiet spot might be difficult.

I'm also really nervous.

Anyway. Hope all is well with everyone. x


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## Sarah R

Hi Everyone,

Annie -  you seem to be bounding along with the vag side of things, thats reall good to hear - have you called the hospital yet? 

Emma - I hope that you enjoyed your holiday!!

Donna/Essex Girl - Hallo!!

I had my interview, the presentation was a wee bit dodgy (too boring I feel).  I came our of the interview with a positive vibe and am waiting for them to let me know, as it's internal it shouldn't take too long.  
  I finally collected my refferal letter from the GP's today.....(they had forgotten all about it?!?) but just got really upset.  The last two GP appts where we have been discussing the referral I spoke with the Gp about not specifying my sexuality as i'm gay (with a small g) and although wrongly, some clinics are still not treating gay women.  The Gp agreed that that was fine and would present me as a single woman - I get the *$%**!£$!! letter and it has not just the gay word but the 'L' word through out it which I can't stand!! - Do people not listen to what I say? anyhow after waiting 5 weeks for the letter to be written and for the Donor sperm supplies to wither even further I decided to sent the letter off rather than wait for another letter to be written.  
  Still going to stay with my best mate in Dartmoor for the weekend - that'll sort me out.

Have a good weekend everyone

Sarah xx


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## AnnieR

Morning Sarah

How bloody rude of that GP surgery. Seriously, I think it's time you spoke to the Practice Manager and let him/her know what a shoddy surgery they are operating. I'm sending you a big squeeze, cause you definitely deserve one.

Glad the interview went well. I'll keep everything crossed for you and have a fab weekened in Dartmoor. 

Still haven't called the hospital. Today is the day though, for sure. I'm sat here with the number and my mobile ready. I'm pooping my pants. I'm, trembling at the thought of making that call. I think I'm scared they'll say no and if they say yes I'll have a complete vag freak out when they come near me.


----------



## AnnieR

Hi Ladies

Is everyone alright? It's all gone a bit quiet!!!

I called the hospital on Thursday and asked them about doing IUI instead of IVF. The midwife wasn't 100% positive and explained she would talk to the Consultant about it. I have to call back Tuesday and find out the verdict. I'll be really upset if he doesn't says yes. I'm wondering if he'll call me in for a lap & dye test (which I've never had). Obviously if my tubes are blocked IUI is no good.
I'll let you know how I get on.

Hope everyone is alright xxx


----------



## Donna Taylor

Sarah - how annoying about GP, Hope clinic are ok about it your shouldn't be treated any different for being gay, single having 3 heads whatever so hope you get the outcome you are after sweetie.

Annie - try to stay calm. Hope you don't mind me asking but why do you need treatment? (sorry if to personal) is it because of vag or do you have other problems ttc?
My reason for asking is if you have no other problems then I can't see why having IUI would be a problem as a first step.
I have no other known problems ttc other than vag so IUI was felt the best first option. All tests have shown me to be fine the only thing I haven't had checked yet is my tubes, but they don't see any reason why they wont be ok because of my age and the fact I have had no infections or operations in that area.
Sorry if I am waffeling, I think IUI would be a good option for you, it cheaper to and why have IVF if you don't really need it.

hello to Emma hope you are well?

hello to Essex girl and cuddles

Donna xx


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## AnnieR

Course I don't mind you asking Donna, it's a fair question. Well it wasn't until very recently that I thought I might have vag. It sounds really silly and I feel a complete idiot, but I never realised that me & DH might not be having full intercourse! I'd had problems with my periods when I came off the pill and they managed to get that back on track with Clomid. After a while we just assumed it wasn't happening for us and we were referred for IVF. I'd  always had a problem with internals, smears etc so I knew I had to combat that before I could have any treatment.
It wasn't until I started tackling these issues that it twigged that we might not have been having full sex. I know you're wondering how I couldn't know - but I really didn't. I freaked out when I realised. Neither myself or DH has been with anyone else and I guess we just thought we were doing it right.
Nobody has ever diagnosed me with vag as such. GP & Councillor has always just thought it was a fear of internals. But to be fair I've always told them we weren't having problems with sex -cause I didn't think we were.
I just don't think I could tell the Dr's that might be what the problem is. I think I'd die from embarassment. Plus I'd also have to discuss it with DH - which I haven't really. 
I guess I was hoping I could just get us on IUI and never have to face it.
Now I've realised about the possible sex problem, I seem to have almost resolved it. We definitely had full sex the other night! Maybe we'll manage it naturally now,although periods are all over the place again.
I don't know Donna. I feel like I've painted myself into a corner.


----------



## Donna Taylor

Annie,

You have no reason to feel stupid or embarrased I am sure what happened to you is more common than you think.
It is only since I have been more comfortable talking about vag that I have realised I am not the only person to suffer from it so therefore not a freak, The problem is nobody talks about these issues openly which I wish people would as I am sure lots of people suffer in silence and never recieve any help.
If I were you, I would try again naturally for a few months and if that doesn't work try IUI, I personnally don't think you need IVF but I am not a doctor so what do I know!
IUI is not a nice process even more so if you suffer from vag, I am not trying to talk you out of it or anything just giving you my thoughts and opinions for what they are worth.
We tried everything we could before taking the step to have IUI, now we are on that rollercoaster I fear we will never get off!
What I am trying to say that if there is another way for you t concieve then why not give it a go first?

Sorry for forcng my 2pence worth on you, I hope I haven't effended you or anything just trying to help you come to a decision.

Here if you want to talk

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil

Good morning everyone! Hope you are all well. I came back from my holiday yesterday and despite 12 hours sleep last night am still feeling a bit jetlagged. Holiday was fab though! I drank far too much coffee and wine, and very nice it was too! Back to a life of fruit juice, caffeine-free tea and vegetables (in short supply in Canada it seems) now. Still haven't had sex, and we didn't even try. We did so much sightseeing and eating that we both just feel asleep the moment we lay down! We have been practicing inserting fingers though (his and mine); I didn't want to take dilators on holiday in case my luggage got searched!

The Vagina Monologues was fantastic. Made me realise that even people who don't have vag have a lot of hang-ups about sex. The audience was almost entirely made up of 50+ women - surprised me. I just couldn't do the chanting/joining in bits though (same as with pantomimes as a child).

Don't know what is going on with my body. You might remember I was struggling with ovulation sticks before I went away. Well, I finally got a positive test the day before I went away (about day 16 of my cycle), so had one last go with the syringe! Don't know if this means I'll have a longer cycle than normal (usually 26 days so should ovulate on day 12) or my body is just weird. If it is always on day 16 we were far too early with our attempts in previous months. Still not expecting anything to come of it though.

Donna - how are you? How is work going? Sorry the new clinic didn't work out.

Annie - glad you enjoyed the wedding. I think you did really well to get even some of a vibrator in - they're huge! Any luck with the tampons?

Sarah - your GP was really out of order. You should complain if you feel it would do some good. How was Dartmoor? Any news on the job?

Cuddles  - hello, how are you?
Essex Girl - thanks for the PM. Will reply later.

Take care everyone,
Emma
p.s. I really missed FF when I was away!


----------



## AnnieR

Morning Everyone!

Donna - You have definitely not offended me. I am incredibly grateful for your opinion and advice. If anything, I feel very lucky that I have found people in a similar boat to me who can talk me through my fears and dilemmas.
I hear what you're saying and think you're right. It's going to take time to get appointments for any treatment, so I thought I could make an effort to try naturally again - possibly properly this time too! It's such a bummer that my periods are so scatty again.
I was thinking of taking Clomid again once I'm sure we're having intercourse. I have some left over from when I took it a while back. Do you think the tablets would still be alright?

Emma - So sorry, I forgot you were going on holiday. Sounds like you had a fantastic time.Don't worry that you didn't have sex. Hopefully you had a nice break away from the worry of it and enjoyed your holiday.
With the ovulation sticks - don't worry. I have read that some women ovulate later in their cycle than the norm. E.G - women on a 30 day cycle are expected to ovulate on day 14, but some don't until days 16-19. Crazy, but true. Keep using the sticks and a pattern might form you can work with!

Not had the chance to use tampons again yet. I'm on about day 45 of my cycle now! It's driving me nuts - where have my cycles gone?!?!. I feel like I've got Pam Andersons boobs!!! I really want to get on and give them a go again too! I'll keep you posted.

Hi to Sarah & Essex Girl xxx


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## Cuddles

Hello Emma, Donna, Annie, Sarah, Essex Girl,

Hope that you all are fine.  Sorry I haven't replied for such a long time. I have been busy with the coursework and have also joined a Vaginismus Support Group so I have been posting on that group for the last two weeks.

I had my appt last week for vag, at the Family Planning Clinic.  I had seen the doctor once before, when I told her that I think I have vag as we have never been able to have penetrative intercourse. And I told her about the possible reasons for my fear of penetration (the abuse n my friends telling me that first intercourse is painful) in that appt.  So she told me I need a longer appointment to talk about this problem. 

The appt I had last week been supposed to be longer but it lasted only 20 mins. First, she asked me questions abt my general health/ periods etc. Then she said she wants to have a look 'down there' to see if everything’s ok. It would have been better if she just looked at it and not touched.  As soon as she got her hand near my opening (sorry tmi), I got very tense and my muscle just clamped shut.  We tried this abt three times but I couldn't bear her hand near it. She said she could see the reflex action of the muscle as it contracted itself and she said obviously there’s a lot of fear in my mind regarding penetration.  She told me to practice at home with a finger or a tampon.  I asked her abt the dilators but she said they prefer finger because it’s more natural.  I don't think she has got experience in treating vag because she didn't say much.  But my husband said that maybe psychotherapists are supposed to be like that, to give us the chance to speak more.  Maybe I shouldn't expect too much from her and try to resolve my vag myself.  My nxt  appointment is in May.

Two days after the appt, I had my period. I tried inserting the tampon first and second day of my period but I couldn't, it felt so uncomfortable and I stopped at the tip of the vagina (sorry tmi).  On the fourth day, my pads were finished so I decided to try it again.  I tried the little mini one, I closed my eyes, did the relaxation exercises and pushed it in. I was doing it very slowly and it felt very strange and uncomfortable, not painful. But after it was abt 1 1/2 inch in (more than halfway), I felt the pain, I tried to push it in further it just stuck there. So I left it there and walked in my bedroom for a while to get used to it. I took it out and tried again, but it didn't go in any more. So I sent DH to a shop near our house to buy some pads for me  .  This might seem silly to people who don’t have vag, but even inserting a tampon halfway was an accomplishment for me and i was very happy.

The Support Group I mentioned earlier, I have found it very helpful as you can receive advice and tips from people all around the world, who are suffering with vag.  There's also another group, ttc with vag. I don't know if any of you are already members of that group but you should try it, it feels good talking to the people who are or were in the same situation.

Good luck everyone and take care

Cuddles


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## emmadaffodil

Hi Cuddles,

Good to hear from you again. I too am a member of a couple of vag support groups - I wonder if they are the same ones ([email protected] and [email protected])? I have been a member of both for a year or so and have found the people on there incredibly supportive and helpful. If I have one reservation it is that most of the posts are from the US, where peoples' experiences and treatments are quite different. On a personal level, I feel that I have much more in common with the wonderful people on FF than with some of the vag board people!

You are right to feel proud of getting the tampon in part way. It is a great first step. Did you use lubricant - I put loads on. The first month when I could get the tampon in only part way I felt like I was walking round on a spike. The next month it somehow (magically?) went in and I couldn't feel it at all.

My understanding is that psychotherapists and psychosexual counsellors use fingers, whereas gynaecologists use dilators, and both disapprove of the other's approach. I think I'm lucky that I see both. I find that the 2 methods complement one another. At first I found fingers easier than dilators, then the other way round. Now I've gone back to fingers again, and am trying to use dh's fingers. If it is any consolation, my psychosexual counsellor said next to nothing for the first few sessions (I used to get so frustrated with this), but now we've got used to each other and I think she is very good (I've just come back from there).

Sorry to ramble on!

Emma, xx
p.s. Hello to everyone else! Hope you are all OK.
Annie - is there a chance you could be pg?


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## Cuddles

Hi Emma,

Thanks for replying. Yes, I was talking about the same groups on yahoogroups.com. I agree with you that most posts are from the US and their treatment is a lot different from ours but when I first posted on the group, I got replies from a lot of UK members and iIalso think that all the ladies (from US, UK and all other countries) on that group are very supportive.  Another thing I like is that you can discuss and ask anything no matter how much private it is.  It also feels good to know that all (hundreds) on the group have got vaginismus  (I mean this in a nice kind of way).

I also did put loads of lubricant on my tampon.  As my period is finished now, I am thinking of trying with a Q-tip first before inserting fingers.  Although, I am not too comfortable with the fingers, as it brings back the memories of abuse.

Thanks for the info on psychotherapists and gynecologists. I think the doctors are as nervous as we are in our first appointment and we can't judge them just in one single appointment.


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## AnnieR

Evening All!

Emma - You have soooo made my day by asking if I could be pg. The fact that we can genuinely ask that question fills me with joy. But to actually answer the question - no,I don't think I am. All the signs are there for AF and it's not uncommon for me to have really long cycles. Plus, I think we only managed full intercourse once in the last few weeks. But bless you for asking. How are you doing though? How was your session with the Psych today?

Cuddles - I echo everything Emma has said to you. Feel really good that you managed to insert a tampon, even if half way. That's still a huge step forward. The way you described your recent experiences with tampons made me smile and almost weep tears of joy, cause that's just how I was. I actually managed to get one in on my last period and then freaked out that I'd done it!!! One tip I can recommend is tilting your pelvis. I found it went in alot easier when I raised my hips. No medical explanation that I know of - just worked!!!!
Persevere with the psycotherapist. I totally turned my nose up at the Councellor I went to see the first time. I just didn't feel I connected with her. In time though I really became to respect what she was saying. I just had to tell her that I like fast paced progress and no pussy footing around. Straight talk works best for me! In the end I just felt ready to tackle it by myself - now I've managed to insert a tampon, best part of a jumbo vibrator,fingers and... I believe full sex. You can do this Cuddles and we'll support you all the way.

Oooh by the way, update on me - THE HOSPITAL SAID "YES" TO IUI!!!!!!!!
I called them this morning and the man from Womens Health - He say yes!

One small problem - I have to have my tubes checked first. Am I ready for this type of investigation, when I haven't conquered a smear test yet - I don't know. I am so excited as they're ready to start right now, so long as my tubes are as open as the London Underground and DH's sperm can survive a spin cycle. But I am petrified.

I know I've made huge progress with my phobia of all things vaginal - but this is a huge step that I'm not sure I'm ready for. EEEkkk!!!!

Love to you all on this horrible rainy evening xxx


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## emmadaffodil

Good morning everyone!

Annie - what exciting news! When will you start tx? How are they going to check your tubes - is it the vaginal ultrasound wand thingey? They might be able to do it with an external ultrasound instead (they tried with me but it didn't work because I have a retroverted uterus which blocked the picture of the tubes). I know it must be daunting, but if you can manage a jumbo vibrator then it should be smaller than that. They might let you insert it yourself if that is easier for you. You'll get through it somehow.

Hope everyone else is OK.

Psychosexual counselling yesterday was really good. More discussions about 'fun' and what that might involve, and the idea that it is OK for me to have fun. She can't understand why I want to be able to 'learn' how to have sex then think about how to enjoy it; she thinks I should try to enjoy the learning process itself. 

Have a good day everyone,
Emma, x


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## Cuddles

Annie,

Thanks for the response and the advice on the tampons.  I'll keep that in mind when I have my period nxt month. As for the counseling, there was one thing that surprised me abt my psychotherapist, when she asked me if I would like to see her again. I thought she was supposed to help me all the way to overcome my vag but maybe doctors are only there to give us targets that we have to achieve.  I'll see how my nxt appt goes. I also started yoga for my back pain last wk and I have seen some posts in the support group that it can help with vag as it relaxes the muscles. So I am hoping if I do yoga before inserting anything, it might make the penetration easier. 

Good news, the hospital saying 'yes' to IUI!! I think what Emma said is right that if you can easily manage a vibrator, you will be able to manage that investigation as well. So don't worry too much.

Emma - It's good that you are now enjoying your counselling sessions. I agree with your counselor that we should enjoy the learning process, too. 

Love, 

Cuddles xx


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## emmadaffodil

Hi everyone,

Cuddles - I've been wondering about yoga too. There is a yoga centre near where I live, but their website looked a bit too 'new agey' for me (no offence intended to anyone) and I wimped out. A friend of mine (who knows nothing about the vag) said I should try laughter yoga; I think it involves doing all the yoga positions and forcing yourself to laugh at the same time! I know that my whole body is quite tense so perhaps it would be a good idea.

In terms of enjoying the learning process, I agree in principle, but I'm not very good at it in practice. I always focus on what I haven't yet achieved rather than what I have done.

Hope everyone else is OK.
Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Evening All!

Emma - Have you ever tried those relaxing CD's? I'm not sure if I mentioned it to you before? I have to someone on FF - sorry if it's you & I'm repeating.

Just in case - I bought a CD off the internet and it's fab. It guides you onto a beach on a tropical island. Totally worked for me, but you have to concentrate and breathe!!! I used to lock myself away in our spare room. I thought being in my bedroom might make me tense!!! 

I'll find the name of the website for you - you can try it out on their site before commiting to a purchase.


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## emmadaffodil

Annie - the CD idea sounds interesting (it wasn't me you mentioned it to before). I'd love to know more. 
I had another go with dilator no 3 yesterday, after a week or so off. Still goes in fine (with masses of lube) but it doesn't half feel uncomfortable. 

Emma, x


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## emmadaffodil

I'm feeling really fed up and sorry for myself this afternoon, and just wanted to come on here and let it all out! My period has arrived so, yet again, I'm not pg. I didn't really think I was pg or have any symptoms, but I was still hoping for a miracle. And it is my birthday on Sunday (I hate birthdays) and I'll be 33; it sounds so ancient! Every birthday (and Christmas) I make a wish that the following birthday I will have become a mother or at least be pg. I just feel such a failure today. All I want is to be a mother, and I don't even have a good career to compensate for not being one (my dh gets really upset when I say this). My b***** mother (who I don't get on with at all) yesterday told me that I am a miserable so-and-so because I said I wasn't looking forward to my birthday, although she has no idea why I hate birthdays so much. 
Sorry to moan, but I just had to get it off my chest. I have to stop crying now as my dogs are looking really worried!

Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

ooh emma  

You did the right thing coming to us and letting it all out. I totally understand what you're saying and believe me, we all have days just like this where we feel distraught and down in the dumps.

I do the same things - Every New Years Eve I promise that the next New Year I will be sooo pg. Designated driver and drinking water! My career is going no where right now and my job has become mega boring + my Mum is also a jumbo pain in the whatsit. And to put a cherry on the icing, on the cake - all of my friends are or are trying to be pg.

So as you can you are totally not alone here. I'm sending you a huge squeeze   Emma. Chin up babe, I have faith that your birthday wish is going to come true this time xxx


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## emmadaffodil

Hello everyone,

Sorry about yesterday. I feel fine now. It is such a beautiful day that I'm not going to waste it feeling sorry for myself! My psychosexual counsellor would probably think it was good that I cried buckets, beacuse normally I start and then stop myself.

Annie - thank you so much for your post. It made me feel heaps better! 
It does seem like everyone is pg at the moment, doesn't it. I don't resent them, but I'm so jealous!
Somehow or other I am determined to manage full/proper sex by the time I'm next ovulating. We'll see.

How is everyone else. Hope you all have a wonderful weekend in the sun!

Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Hi All

I have had a right naff day at work today   I had a 1-1 with the boss and got a bit emotional - again. For some reason totally unbeknown to me 
whenever I have a meeting with her -I well up!!! It's starting to get really embarassing.I was talking about all the things I'm finding frustrating and how fed up I am and I could feel my voice going and my eyes well up. I think she's getting a bit hacked off with it. She didn't say anything mean or nasty. I just come over all upset. What an ****! 

Anyway - Tuesday's another day as they say and I am praying that I'll be on maternity leave sometime really really really soon!!! - or a lottery win would help in the meantime.

Hope all is well with everyone else.Anyone got anything nice planned for the bank holiday. I'm seeing my friend tomorrow who is pregnant with twins - naturally! Oh the joys!


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## emmadaffodil

Hi Annie,

You poor thing. At least you have a long weekend now. I know what you mean about welling up. That is _exactly_ what happens to me in counselling. I don't see it coming, but then my voice goes all wobbly and I can't stop myself! When she asks me what, specfically, is making me cry I can't tell her! You just feel so ridiculous, don't you. What did your boss do to you? was it her idea or yours to have a 1 to 1?

My plan for the weekend is to drink lots of wine and eat lots good food and try to forget about this ttc lark. I'd strongly recommend that line of action. Miracles might even happen and dh might put up the shelf and mirror that I've been asking him to do since the Easter bank holiday! I could do it myself but I am very dangerous with a drill!

How is everyone else? Donna - where are you?

Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Sounds like a good plan Emma! Might have to join you there.Just got back from visiting my friend in Bristol. Had a nice drive in the sunshine, singing along to the radio.
Gonna chill out now and watch a cheesey movie while I wait for DH to get back from work.

Hi to Donna, Sarah & Cuddles - hope all is well with you guys xxx


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## Donna Taylor

Happy Birthday Emma  
Hope you are having a nice day.

I know exactly what you mean I have lost count of the amount of birthdays and christmas's where I have said this is my last one with out a child. I try not to say it now.

Sorry I have not been around I am just so knackered when I arrive home form work don't get a chance to come on here.

Went to see my aunt in bexhill on friday which was really nice just got back.
off to pub in a little while for a birthday drink as it smy friends 21st on wednesday.

I'll post more tommorrow xxx


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## AnnieR

Happy Birthday Emma!  

Hope you're having a fab day. Have you been spoilt rotten?!?!


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## emmadaffodil

Hello everyone!

Thanks for the birthday wishes. I had a nice birthday after all. Nothing very exciting. We spent most of the day at my allotment weeding and planting veggies. In the evening dh cooked a lovely meal. 

Did anyone see the article in the Sunday Times about libido-boosting patches for women (have a similar effect to Viagra on men)? I'm wondering about getting these! Not sure if they are even available yet though.

Hope everyone has a nice bank holiday. Anyone doing anything exciting? It is pouring with rain here so I'm going to stay indoors and do lots of cooking and watch Dallas on DVD (My parents wouldn't let me watch it the 1st time round)!

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

The weather is lovely here, really hot and sunny.
Had a very lazy morning, only just had breakfast!!!!!
out shopping now but its only boring food shopping wish it was more exciting.

Emma gald you had a nice birthday after all, enjoy Dallas

Annie when and where will you be having treatment??

Take care Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil

Hello everyone,

Af is over for me so now I have to concentrate on getting to grips (literally!)  with dilator number 3 and sex. I really want to manage it before my next ovulation. Dh says I am treating it like a competitive sport rather than fun!
I'll let you know how I get on! 

How is everyone else?
Donna - good to have you back!

Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Hi Emma & Donna!

I'm having a feeling sorry for myself day. I think AF has arrived finally. 48 days this cycle. I know I should be happy as this means I can get on with treatment etc, but I was really hoping for a miracle this time. 

So now I have to really go for it over the next few days. Will be going for tampons tomorrow or whenever flow is strong enough (eww I know). Then I'll really have to practice with the speculum.

If I can crack that, then it'll be time to book in for the tube test. I'm petrified already.

Donna -Ill be having treatment at the local hospital in Swindon. They can do IUI there rather than the fertility clinic in Oxford. Huge bonus! I would have hated going to Oxford as it would have brought back memories of driving my Dad down there for chemo etc. Instead I just have to go to the Womens Health Outpatients and they can do it all there.

I desperaraely want to do this as all my friends are ttc. I don't want to be the odd one out. Only thing stoping me is....ME!


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## emmadaffodil

Annie - you poor thing. Sorry you're feeling down.  I know just what you mean about hoping for a miracle. 
In terms of the tampons, what type are you using? I personally find the ones _without_ an applicator much much easier than the ones with, even though my GP and gynaecologist recommended the applicators ones (what would the gynae know - he's a man). When I started out trying to use them at the start of the year I bought one box of each type to find the best ones for me  This month, because I now find them OK, I tried some of the different types again and I still can't get on with the applicator ones. I think that the best ones are the tiny Kotex ones that are packaged like lipsticks; perhaps I feel more positive towards them just because they look nicer. The Lil-lets tiny ones are fine too. I really don't like Tampax though. I reckon that if you can manage a speculum, a vibrator and a penis (not all at the same time!), then a tiny tampon should be fine. Personally, I think it took me so many attempts to succeed because I was getting the angle all wrong. 

Good news about your treatment. You'll get through it because you want it so badly.

Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Thanks Emma - really appreciated. I've been wrestling with myself all day. One minute I talk myself into it, then I panic and think I just cannot have anyone near me. Then I tell myself to stop torturing myself and go and get what I've always wanted.

It feels like I'm staring at my baby, waiting across the way for me. Only thing is I have to walk on miles of hot coals to get to it!

Thanks for being here though. It really is such a huge help. Gives me motivation to push myself so I can log on and tell you all about it! Nobody else gets the excitement of inserting a tampon


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## star1

hello everyone 

i am new on this thread but i found you all and read your stories and felt that i had something in common with all of you. i have been living with vag for a number of years now but really would like to start a family. most of my friends have one or two kids already. i have been married for nearly 5 years and people are starting to question us and we haven't told anyone. my husband is fab i love him so much and all we want is a family together but the vag is stopping us. i just can't bear the pain. we have tried counselling but it didn't work so we are doing things our way slowly but surely but i can't stop thinking about the baby factor and that's all i really want. i've never spoken to anyone about it before apart from my hubby and i really feel now i need someone else to talk to who is going thru the same thing as us...

didn't want to be rude and interrupt your sessions but don't really know what else to do..feel like each year time passes by and i'm getting older..i'm 30 now...and baby seems further and further away...

take care

love 

star1 x


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## AnnieR

Hi Star

Welcome! - Vag is not talked about that much, so the more support here the better. I felt exactly the same when I found this thread, but I have to say it's the best thing I ever did and I wouldn't have got this far without Emma,Donna, Sarah & Cuddles. I'm more than happy to share my experiences and progress with you if it'll help in anyway.

You & your hubbie are definitely not alone. I've felt exactly the same way as you described, and still do! 

Hope to speak to you again Star. 


Emma - Forgot to say the other day about the brand of tampons. I think I'd get on better with the appliactors to be honest. I don't think I could push it all that way in myself. I used Tampax Compax last time when it worked. Flow still not kicked off yet, so still haven't been able to try them again!


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## emmadaffodil

Hello Star! You're not interrupting at all - its great to have another person join in! Like Annie, I feel pretty much the same as you. It's just not something you can really talk to other people about. Everyone here is wonderful and understand exactly how you feel. Please feel free to ask anything at all about anything.

Can you manage penetration at all? Can you insert tampons or fingers? Would it be worth trying counselling again with a different counsellor? Are you thinking of having IUI? Sorry to ask so many questions!

Annie - isn't it funy how different things suit different people better. I think part of my problem with the applicator ones is that I have terrible hand-eye coordination and just get myself into a muddle!

Hope everyone else is OK. I practiced with dilator no 3 yesterday (goes in easily but still feels very uncomfortable) but no sex attempts yet!

Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Emma - LOL!!!! Hand/Eye Co-ordination?!?!? I'll be thinking about that now when I give them a go! Well done for having a go with number 3 again. Keep at it x


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## emmadaffodil

Annie - any luck yet?!
I have a real problem with reading instructions/looking at a diagram (eg the bizarre pictures of people on tampon instructions with their legs raised) and putting it into practice. Think that's why it took me so long to learn to drive!

Hope everyone else is Ok.

Emma, x


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## star1

hi emma and annie  

thanks for the replies and for being so understanding.

i can't manage penetration at all as i've got this constant thing in my head that it will hurt and i just clam up. i used to a few years ago but then it started hurting so much that i couldn't bear the pain anymore. 
i have never used tampons only towels-this is what i've always use ever since i first got my period as that is what my mum did and i just did what she did...i have recently tried to use a tampon a small lilets one but i just couldn't insert it..as you have been saying the whole diagram and the thought of inserting something just made me cringe..i think i may try again next month though maybe with the ones you reccomend..small kotex or small lilets.
i don't think counselling again would help. we have tried relate, a family planning one and a private one, so 3 in total and i just think we will get though it ourselves as we love each other so much and just want to get through it.  
to be honest with you i hadn't heard of IUI until i read about it yesterday, i'm still not sure exactly what it is....need to find out more
also, i'm always really tired at the moment from work being quite stressful and all i want to do in bed is sleep but every morning i think another day is lost when we could have been trying...do you set aside specific times to try
found out today another friend is pg  ..i am so jealous, we work together and are very good friends aswell, i keep thinking b****, but i love her really.....keep thinking will it ever be me, esp when i see pg people on the tube...can't imagine it at the mo... 

speak soon

star1 xx


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## AnnieR

Morning Everybody!

So - I am having the weirdest period ever. Here I am desperate to give tampons another go (with the dodgy instructions) and nothings happening. Sorry to be gross, but all I've had for 2 days is brown discharge!?! There's no excrutiating period pain or bright red flow...yet. Maybe it's taking it's time up there as my body simply doesn't want anything inserted?!? 

I also have a question to ask, quite personal so eternally grateful to anyone who answers. Do you guys stand when you try and insert tampons? I've been lying on my bed. Wonder if standing might be a hell of alot easier?

Star - I totally admire your determination to do this by yourself. I made the exact same decision not so long ago and have made alot more progress. Councelling was too slow for me  -I'm not very patient and want things NOW!
My best friend at work fell pregnant and being with her everyday was excrutiating at first. Although she was incredibly supportive to me and saw that I preferred her to not hide things and be upfront. I feel like I've been involved the whole way and I learnt so much! I'm looking forward to her having her baby now. It always seems worse when its first announced, but trust me it'll feel alot better real soon. She's even offered to come to IUI appointments with me as she'll be off on mat leave. I laughed and told her i really apreciated her suuport, but probably best to leave the baby at home if she does come!!!!

Anyway - will check in a bit later and let you know if there's any period progress


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## emmadaffodil

Good morning everyone!

Star - good to hear from you again. Donna is the IUI expert - I'm sure she can tell you all about it.
I actually gave up working full-time to deal with the vag/baby issue. I found that the stress of work combined with the stress of wanting to ttc meant I was shattered at the end of the day. I was falling asleep on the sofa every day the moment I sat down in the evening. I don't think I ever stayed awake after 9pm. I used be manager of a bookshop in London and had to work all weekends and 6 days a week (because the company I worked for paid so badly that we were always shortstaffed) and never saw dh. Sounds silly but it was killing me! I was tired and grumpy all the time, and couldn't face talking about the vag (I hadn't even heard about vag at that stage) let alone deal with it. When we moved out of London we decided that it would be better if I didn't work full-time and took time to learn about myself. I know I am lucky that dh earns enough for us both to live on. Now I do freelance work as and when it suits me. I do more in winter when the weather is horrible and spend most of the summer at my allotment. I do set aside time each day to practice with the dilators. Every afternoon, after I've walked the dogs, I have a bath and then get poking! 
Sorry to ramble on with my life story!

Annie - any increase in flow?! I can't insert tampons standing up at all (even though the silly diagram suggests that is the way). I put them in whilst sitting on the toilet, leaning forward slightly!!    The first month, when I was still struggling with them, I put them in lying on my back on the bathroom floor, similar to the position I would use to get the dilators in, but that was really uncomfortable (hard floor); I felt really silly too, although noone could see me! It helped me to pull myself open and insert a finger the first few times - just to check where the hole was!
Keep us posted on any developments!

Donna, Sarah, Cuddles, Essex Girl - hello!

Emma, xx


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## Sarah R

Hi Everyone,

Wrote an essay of a post last night, detailed repsonses to everyone, a hello to Star and loads of gumpf about what a nightmare saga i'm having at the mo -- count yourselves lucky that it got lost 

Short version here goes.....
Welcome star 
Annie - I've not had much success in the tampon dept but did manage to insert by having one foot on side of the bath and the other as far apart as possible on the floor whilst singing (to relieve tension). mmmm as to your period misbehaving, since I've been to the gp to sort my referral out my periods have all gone haywire, used to be regular and now cycle is anywhere between 32 - 37 days with periods lasting between 6 - 8 days?

Emma - Well done with going onto no 3

Hallo Donna.

Well dartmoor, not what I wanted it to be, quite stressful and upsetting but great to see best friend and god son (3). Job marlarky finally sorted...though not satisfactory. Got a six month contract as an _Acting_ Deputy Manager - due to my presentation not cutting the mustard (presentations will not form part of my job role?!!) Also temporary contract creates problems with treatment - I would bet my last shilling that if i were to be pregnant when the six months is up that i wouldn't get a fixed contract. Obviously it wouldnt be overtly linked to pregnancy but ...... . So am at a loss, people at work can't understand why I'm not over the moon at the mo. The other thing is that they are not advertising my old job until they see if i get confirmed in post in Nov so can see them trying to get me to cover both posts!! - However I will remain strong, have already set some ground rules so that's cool. 
Got a day off today and have to spend it doing NVQ coursework and evidence gathering ?!!! - good news is got a laptop for the bargin price of sixty quid (cant find the pound sign button though....answers on a post card.....) and so hopefully will be able to contribute more to the site rather than being an occasional visitor.

take care every one

Sarah x


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## AnnieR

Hi Sarah - good to hear from you! Sorry to hear all is not well on the work front at the mo. Sounds like they might take advantage of you - although I reckon you're strong enough to not let them. Only thing for it, is for you to show them your stuff over the next 6 months and make them regret the day they made you Acting Deputy instead of the full role! Morons!
Gutted last nights post got lost. I could do with something to read until lunchtime!

What happened in Dartmoor to make it stressful & upsetting? Sorry to hear that Sarah 


Emma - How lush to not work full time anymore. I bet that took so much pressure off you and DH. My MIL asked me to stop working, but we really couldn't afford it -especially now DH is letting me build a mammoth extension on the house! Well.. I might have a football team of kids one day and they'll have to live somewhere! Do you miss London since you left? I love visiting London. It's only 70 miles away from me, but we still hardly ever go down there. Always thought I'd love to work in a bookshop too as I'm a huge bookworm, but not the sort you used to work in!!! I imagined small & quaint with cosy sofas to sit on and drink hot chocolate as you pour over the pages. 

Anyway - back to reality - STILL NO FLOW. what the heck is going on?!?! Not sure what to do? Maybe I should give it a few more days?


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## emmadaffodil

Sarah - sorry you had a stressful time in Dartmoor and are having a stressful time at work. I agree with Annie - show them just how brilliant you are and demand a pay rise when they make you permanent deputy! I did laugh at the idea of you singing as you insert tampons! 

Annie - could it be stress? Has there been any more of the brown gunk?! (I can't believe I'm asking that!). You could go to your GP. Could it be worth doing a hpt? (Don't think I would dare for fear of the disappointment though). 
I do miss London a little now, and am starting to go for odd days here and there. When we first moved away I didn't miss it at all. I'd had enough of the dirt, noise and commuting. I'd always been a city girl but now I've become a country bumpkin! We're still not far away anyway - dh works there. Many of my friends moved away (most abroad) at the same time so I don't really have any ties there now. My bookshop was big and corporate I'm afraid. I miss all the free books and invites to book launches, but I don't miss lugging heavy boxes around all day long and the phenomenal amounts of dust.

Take care,
Emma
p.s. is anyone else staying up to watch the election results?


----------



## AnnieR

Don't think so Emma. Think I can just about hold on til the morning to find out whose sataying or moving into No10. Just been and placed my vote - my bit is done now. Just have to wait and see. I'm off to Bingo tonight instead. See if I can win myself a few pennies for some retail therapy!

Yep, there's been some more brown gunk. Could be stress and like you said couldn't possibly do a hpt - they're way too depressing. Might have to though if this doesn't get going by the weekend. It's the first thing a GP would ask.

You got FREE books!!!! That's settled it then. I need a job in a bookshop -so long corporate life, the paper pages are calling!!!!!

I laughed with Sarah about singing whilst inserting, but after some thought I think it's a bloody good idea. I'm going to give it a go...when I get a chance.

Toodles for now. Got to walk over to my best friends and pick up her truck/car. I'm picking her up from Heathrow on Saturday and her surf gear won't fit in my little sports car -even with the roof off.


----------



## Donna Taylor

Hello everyone,

Re Tampon discusion -  I find the ones with aplicators easiest not really sure why but do, I also insert them standing up sometines with 1 leg on the side of the bath - sorry if TMI 

Star - so pleased you joined us only a few months ago it was only Emma and I on this thread I am so pleased it has grown and allowed others to have the cofidence to speak about what they are going through.
I am extactly the same as you star, I have seen councellors and doctors etc but we have decieded to try and beat this together in our own way. We still satisfy each other fully so don't feel there is any rush but our want for a baby is so great that we didn't feel we could wait untill I was over vag, especailly as lets face it I may never do that and I have kinda come to terms with that because for me I still have sex, you don't need penertration to have sex.
I also think and this may sound strange, that Luke and I are closer sexually because we dont and have nver had penetration. does that make sense? we are so much more in tune to each others bodies.
You have probably read already but I have had 2 cycles of IUI which sadly have been negative, hopefully starting my 3rd cycle in June.
Sorry for writting so much!!!!

Annie - I am sure you will be fine, for me the want for a baby is so much I just grit my teeth and get through it but for the life of me I don't know how! your be fine you will find away to get through that works for you. xx

Big hello to everyone xx

Donna xx


----------



## star1

hi everyone

really tired as just got back from kylie concert at earls court-she was fab and so tiny!!!

thank you all for the support. i really feel like i'm not alone anymore.

donna-i wonder if you could explain a bit more about IUI to me as i am still unsure as to the ins and outs of it...some sort of injections if not where can i get some info as i have tried to look up on the net but can't seem to find anything...

emma-giving up work full time sounds nice but i don't think i can do that at the moment...love to though!!!!

annie-i understand what you are saying about the bf pg thing at work..i'm sure i will cope with it as i have all my other friends pregnancies..there have been so many now...

hello to everyone else!!!

time for bed...
chat tomorrow

star1 xx


----------



## AnnieR

Morning All

No luck at Bingo last night, so I'm back in work this morning   Finishing at 2pm today though and heading into town for some retail therapy. Then going home to prepare for a night out with the girls.

What is everyone else up to the weekend?


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## emmadaffodil

Morning everyone,

I didn't stay up to watch the election in the end. I fell asleep on the sofa and had a horrible dream about having a miscarriage - don't know what that was all about. 

Donna - have you decided to do the 3rd cycle at the same clinic?

Annie - retail therapy sounds good. Just food shopping for me today. Any developments with your period?!

I'm spending the weekend gardening, allotmenting, and going to dog obedience classes. Dh is working unfortunately. I am coming up to ovulation time (maybe) so I'll also be getting out those dreaded pee sticks and my syringe! Don't think the sex thing is going to happen yet. I was all ready to have a go   this week but have barely seen dh.

Have a good weekend everyone!

Emma, xx


----------



## AnnieR

Hi Emma - period, or what looked like it might be has disappeared. Maybe it wasn't AF after all. Maybe just a darker than usual discharge

Retail therapy wasn't that much fun after all. Didn't find anything that had to be bought, so got a make do outfit for tonight to passify me.

Feel some wine coming my way!!! I'm going to catch some zzzz's before I get dollied up.

Speak to everyone over the weekend. Have a good one xxx


----------



## emmadaffodil

Just popped in to say hello. Hope everyone is having a grand weekend. 

No syringe action for me yet (or sex)- perhaps later! 

Emma, xx


----------



## AnnieR

Go on Emma - go for it!!!!


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## emmadaffodil

Still no sex! Poor dh worked yesterday (and today), drank too much wine when he came home and fell asleep the moment his head touched the pillow! This morning he had to get up early to go to work. Somehow or other we've got to try tonight! No signs of ovulation yet (pee sticks or cm) so at least we haven't missed the boat there. 
I go back to the gynaecologist on Wednesday to get dilator #4 (dread to think how big that one is). The gynae said that once I could manage #3 then I could manage sex, and he's expecting me to have achieved this before my next visit. The pressure's on!

Hope everyone is having a good weekend. 

Emma, xx


----------



## AnnieR

OMG!!! - I am having a nightmare.

My 2 best friends have just returned from their holidays in the last few days and since they've got home all they've talked about is their ttc. They've talked about ovulation kits, when they're having sex and their hopes that it worked while they were away.

I can't take it. I am dying inside. What the hell am I going to do if they both fall at the same time?!?!

We talked briefly about what my plans were and it got a sort of "that's nice" response. I guess they're bored of listening to me rattle on about not getting pg.

They're both mega excited - and who can blame them. I was the same when we first started out, back in the day when it seemed it would hapen just like that.

Still no period for me yet, so I guess I either wait for God knows how long for it to arrive or bite the bullet and get this tube test done and get started on IUI. Easier said than done though hey girls.

I feel terrible.


----------



## emmadaffodil

Oh Annie, poor thing! Do your friends know about the problems you've had (vag etc) or 'just' that you've ben waiting a long time to get pg? You never know, you might even get pg before them! I found out that 2 friends of mine and my dentist are pg over the weekend. I find it hard to react in the right way. My initial thoughts are that it is so unfair, but somehow I manage to then say all the right stuff to them. Noone even asks when I am going to have children any more; I think people assume after a certain amount of time that there must be a problem and they'd better not mention it. People who know me better (dh's family) seem to assume that I don't want children because i've been scarred by my relationship with my mother. Even my MIL has started saying 'if you ever have children' rather than 'when you have children'. Sorry, I'm rambling..

Do you have to wait for your af before you can have the tube test? If not, perhaps you should bite the bullet and book it today. I know it will be scary as hell, but you might feel better if you have a date and feel like something is happening. Plus, when you start having the tube tests, blood tests etc they might be able to advise on what is going on with your af.

This ttc stuff is such an emotional rollercoaster, isn't it. 
I wish I could help or say something useful.



Emma, xx
p.s. given up on the idea of ever having sex in the near future - dh too tired again last night, and looks like he'll be working all through the night today and tomorrow.


----------



## AnnieR

Thanks Emma, I desperately needed to talk to someone who really understands. Nobody else gets it. They're all wondering why I've been waiting so long to start treatment and when I explain about vag they all look at me like I'm a freak.

I don't think I have to wait for af. I just wanted it to happen so I could try tampons again first - sort of a build up to the tube test. I don't know if I can do it Emma. 

Part of me wants to run in there and get the ball rolling, the other part of me is stalling for more time.

You'd think this desperate feeling would be enough to motivate me, but I am petrified.

Sorry to hear DH is busy with work. Have you ovulated yet? It might not be too late


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## emmadaffodil

Oh Annie! 

I reckon that once you get to the clinic, despite being petrified, you'll somehow get through it. The worst that can happen is that they can't do an internal exam and you'll feel a bit embarrassed, but the chances are that it will go better than you expect and you'll feel really pleased with yourself and excited to get things underway.

I think I asked this before, and I can't remember quite what you said, but what kind of tube test are they doing? Is it a lap and dye, in which case you'll be under general anaesthetic (although that can be scary for other reasons)? Is it the vaginal ultrasound wand? Is it the external ultrasound? I don't know what other types there are but I've had those 3 (although couldn't manage the vaginal wand). You could speak to the clinic beforehand and tell them about the vag and that you might find some of the internal procedures difficult. Most doctors and nurses are quite sympathetic when they know about it (and if they're not do you really want them treating you). 
Would dh come with you to hold your hand?

Sorry your friends don't really understand. It was incredibly brave to try to explain to them. I've never told anyone except people on here and doctors. I've though about telling MIL a few times (she used to be a nurse in a GUM clinic) but worry that she'll think her son has married a freak.

I wish I could do something to help. 

Emma, xx
p.s. don't think I've ovulated yet - will do a test later - but I almost don't want to know as I'm unlikely to see him tonight! Stupid thing is that much as I want to get on with ttc, it is almost a relief to have a month where I'm not thinking about whether or not it is going to work!


----------



## Donna Taylor

Emma - sorry to hear you are having a nightmare time trying to find time with DH, it must be hard for you both with him working such long hours, your get there though hun

Annie - I completley undersatnd your fears, I was and am still the same. If I were you I would book the apointment so that you have a date in mind and can start getting your head around it. Once you are there you will get through it some how, you will find away to get through it. I am not sure how I have so many vaginal scans but after a while they don't really seem that bad (honest) 
Plus the doctors and nurses you will see are treating and dealing with vaginas and people ttc all day long, more so than gynae docs if that makes sense, I hace always found the fertility nurses more understanding and gentle they also know how to relax you more.
I really don't think it will be that bad once your there, don't get me wrong I am not saying you are making to much out of this or anything I just mean I have been in your situation (although I haven't had my tubes checked as yet) you really will get through although you may look back and wonder how you did you really will honey. you will surprise yourself at what you can do I promiss

Star - I haven't forgot you I will answer all you questions in a PM if that is ok. It will be better for me to tell you all my experiences from the beginning if thats ok. so I will PM you but want to do it when I have enough time to do it properly.

Donna xx


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## AnnieR

Thanks so much Emma & Donna. I really appreciate everything you have said. I'm feeling alot better about it. I'm sure I'll be fine somehow, once I get there. I guess is's the fear of the unknown? It seems such a big step so quickly when I haven't long mastered inserting things. I'm worried it's too much too soon.

Anyway, thanks again. You girls really make this alot easier to cope with. It felt so good to have someone to go to when I was feeling really terrible this morning.

Thank-You, Thank-You, Thank-You  

Emma - did you do the test to see if you ovulated?

Donna - how are things with you? did you have a nice weekend?


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## emmadaffodil

Good morning!

Annie - I'm so glad that you are feeling a bit happier. Have you decided what you're going to do?

Still not ovulating (day 13 of 26 day cycle) but I'm pleased about that. Dh didn't get back until the wee small hours this morning and is working all through the night tonight, so he's just not available to do the deed! I've only got one pee stick left, but then I'm going to get one of those digital monitors - far less ambiguous. I have psychosexual counselling this afternoon and have the sick feling in my stomach already!

Hello Donna, Cuddles, Sarah, Star, Essex Girl - hope you are all well!

Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Emma - I hope it all goes well this afternoon. You never know, this session might be the most liberating you've ever attended! Pop back when you're home and let me know how it went - if you feel up to it. I bet you're pooped after those sessions.

Definitely get the digital kits - they're much much much easier to work with.

Morning - Donna, Cuddles, Sarah, Star & Essex Girl x


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## emmadaffodil

Hello again,

Psychosexual counselling was really good. Annie - thank you for your words of encouragement. It really made a difference. I went along feeling quite positive. We talked about physical and emotional pain (particularly in relation to sex) and the c**p I went through around the time of my birthday, amongst other stuff. I somehow have to teach myself not to expect pain when attempting sex.
I had a bit of a breakthough yesterday with the dilators. As you know, I've been trying number 3 and it has felt very uncomfortable and even painful. When I put it in yesterday I tried to think about where exactly it hurt (at the entrance but underneath - no idea which part of the anatomy that is). Then I did some Kegel exercises (tightening and loosening the vaginal muscles). After a while I realised that it wasn't hurting anymore. I lay there for about half an hour and allowed my mind to wander (listening to traffic noise) and realised that once I stopped thinking about the pain and expecting it then there actually wasn't any. Mind you, when it actually comes to sex I don't think it would be the ideal scenario for me to listen to the traffic rather than enter into the spirit of things! Well I get number 4 tomorrow - can't imagine how big that is!

Hope everyone is OK. Can't begin to tell you how much of a lifesaver FF is for me at the moment! It means everything to know that there are people out there who understand what all this feels like.

Take care,
Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Well Done Emma  

I am so glad you feel things went well yesterday at counselling and huge congrats on the dilators. I am really impressed. You must tell a bit more more about these Kegel exercises - I've never heard of them and they sound great! It's fantastic that you managed to lay there for a half hour. That's great progress. Dilator number 4 should be a breeze now then!!!!

I must get that speculum out again - it's been a while. I shall try your method of listening to traffic next time too!!!

Morning to everyone - how are you all?


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## emmadaffodil

Hello!

Kegel exercises - this is my understanding of them just from reading stuff in books and on the web: to get an idea of what to do, when you are on the wc concentrate on the muscles and stop the flow mid-flow. Hold it for a bit and then let it flow again.   You then apply the same kind of muscle control when the dilator (or speculum, penis, whatever) is inserted. If it feels tight and painful I find that it really helps to tighten all the muscles up, hold it like that for a few seconds, and then let them go again. When you let them go it kind of makes the whole area feel kinf of floppy and looser. My psych counsellor likened the letting-out bit to feeling like a marshmallow. People are typically taught to do these after childbirth when everything can get a bit floppy, so they are concentrating on the tightening-up side of things. For vag people we do the opposite! Hope that makes some sense, but I've probably oversimplified!

Hope everyone is well. Have a great day!

Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

I've just had some amazing news this morning! Friends of mine who have been doing IVF for years have announced that their 6th attempt was a success and they are expecting twins!!!!! It worked this time after I recommended my accupuncturist to them. I am soooo over the moon. I've watched them go through absolute hell over the last 5 years and can't think of anyone more deserving.

This news has psyched me right up and I feel like running in to that hospital and having that HSG test today! They've shown me that it can be done and no matter how they got or how long it took them it simply doesn't matter now.

I can't work - I am far too pumped!


----------



## emmadaffodil

Annie - what wonderful news! It gives hope to us all. They must be over the moon and so pleased that they didn't give up! How far along is she?
I'd love to know more about accupuncture. I've seen it mentioned elsewhere on FF and wondered about it myself. Have you had it then? How often? How does it feel? Sorry, so many Qs.

Well I now have dilator no 4 and it is huge! I am so embarrassed too. The gynaecologist put it inside me and it hurt so much that I screamed/shouted out loud (not quite sure what noise I made actually, but it was definately a noise); I think I may even have sworn at him! I just couldn't help it. then he took it out and made me have a go. I actually got it in, but it hurt like hell (although not as much as when he did it) and it hurt to take it out again. Think I'll leave it well alone for today! And only yesterday the psych counsellor was telling me that the pain was all in the mind - felt very real to me that's for sure!

Hope everyone is OK. I'm off to play with my new strimmer. Let's hope I don't strim my feet off!

Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Emma

Hope you've still got your feet and managed to walk back to your p.c to read this!!!!!

What a shame that dilator number 4 was not received well.After such a wicked session at counselling yesterday too + the half hour session with number 3. It probably just needs a bit of practice Were you maybe dreading it before you got there and had it in your mind it was going to hurt, so it did? Bet you'll have a lot more luck when you're at home on your own.

My friend will be 12 weeks on Monday. They are a million miles over the moon and I've been high as a kite all day. I've been having accupuncture for nearly a year. I go to help regulate my periods (clearly having a blip right now. Still no AF!!!). The Lady I see is soooooo lovely. Wish she was a psychosexual counsellor - she'd be perfect at it. It feels fab. I always float our of the practice and back to the car. When she puts the needles in I sometimes feels a slight tingle. Never ever has it hurt. The needles are absolutely tiny. 
I plan to use her when I'm doing IUI. Clearly she gets some ace results! Twins on first treatment with accupuncture - that won't harm her reputation!


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## emmadaffodil

Hello again,

Strimming was short but sweet, and my feet remain intact. 

Annie - you have convinced me that I must try acupuncture. How did you pick your acupuncturist (if that is what you call them)? I've just looked on a web site and there are loads in my area. How often do you go? How much does it cost? I might add something to your post on the 'complementary' board to appeal for recommendations. Is it ticklish? Do you have to take all your clothes off? I've got used to taking the bottom half off but the top half is another matter!

Emma, xx


----------



## AnnieR

Dear Lord Nooo!!! - The clothes stay firmly ON!    

My accupuncturist was recommended to be by a good friend's Mother. She was going for her hot flashes! This Lady is getting quite a good name for herself in Wiltshire. Seems she's helped quite alot of ladies with fertility and loads of other "womens problems". I was going once a fortnight to start with and then wittled it down to once a month for a top up. I think it was £40 for the first session - I was there for over 2 hours though. Now I pay £30 a session. A tadge pricey maybe, but I don't begrudge a penny. It's well worth it. And No, it doesn't tickle!!!

I just lay back and have a really good natter with her. Something I can actually do and am bloody good at!

Just ran myself a huge bubble bath and thrown my speculum in to play with. It was alot more fun in the days of rubber duckies!

Speak to you in a bit. Hopefully with some good inserting news!


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## emmadaffodil

Annie - where do they stick the needles then? I thought it was into your back, or am I confusing this with something else!  £40 for 2 hours sounds pretty good. 

How was your bath?! 

Hope everyone else is OK. have a great day!

Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Morning Emma

The bath was great. Speculum slipped right in - twice! And instead of whipping it straight back out thinking that's enough of a success - I followed your methods and zoned out to surrounding sounds for a little while. Was feeling really brave and was going to give dry land a go - but DH was hanging around like a lost sheep. No football on t.v last night for him!

At my accupuncture sessions she usually only puts needles in my feet, lower legs and wrists. Apparantly that's where all the girlie points are. I've only ever had them in my back once or twice to tone my kidneys?!?! And then I only had to lift my top up slightly. Some needles are left in for about 15 minutes and we either have a chat or she plays some nice supermarket music and lets me chill.Other needles are only used to tap a pressure point. The best thing though is moxa. This entails putting a little stubby stick that burns a bit like insence on my belly to "warm my womb". It smells a bit like cannabis to me! Usually only takes a minute and then you start feeling this nice warm sensation as it burns down. I reek of the stuff after - but it's a lush smell!

Hope everyone is doing well xxxx


----------



## emmadaffodil

Wow Annie, that's great! Can you feel it when it is inside you? I can't manage to insert anything except fingers in the bath; I'm too worried about slipping and drowning (short person in long bath)! Does dh watch? Mine doesn't most of the time (because he is usually at work) but has done now and again, and sort of moves the dilator in and out of me (sorry if TMI).

The more I hear about acupuncture, the more I want to try it. If nothing else, it would be a good way of relaxing.

Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Good Morning!

I don't think I can feel it once it's inside Emma - I'd probably know about it if I did!!! No chance of me slipping, I sound like your complete opposite - I'm 5ft 10 so there's no room for me to get lost in the tub!

I tried fingers first the other night in the bath and felt like I could get my whole arm up there (sorry!) It seems to react well to water!!! So if they can do IUI in a jumbo water tank I'll be well away  

DH doesn't watch. I tend to like to do this things by myself. I'm a control freak and couldn't handle DH doing it or trying to tell me how to do it!

Morning to everyone else - how is everyone?


----------



## emmadaffodil

Morning everyone!

Annie - you are doing so well!   Any attempts on dry land yet?! 

I wimped out of trying #4 yesterday, but will have a go this afternoon. Dh and I had a sleepy fumble this morning   and I think I could have managed to force it in if I'd really tried, but there wasn't really time. (I can just imagine my psych counsellor saying 'force it it' doesn't sound like fun). Perhaps this weekend!

Hope everyone else is OK. Where are you all?

Emma, xx


----------



## AnnieR

No attempts on dry land yet Emma. I'm home all by myself tomorrow so I have promised myself to make an effort and give it a go. I'm feeling brave!

Good luck with number 4 this arvo. How about trying it in the bath first? I'm sure you'll be fine giving it a go yourself. You did manage to get it in at the Gynocologist, so maybe being at home and doing it in your own time will make it pain free. Don't let it beat you  

Do you think we've scared everyone else away?!?!


----------



## AnnieR

OMG!!!!! Period has started finally!!!!!!!! Tampons here we come. I can't wait!


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## emmadaffodil

Hi Annie,

Any luck with the tampons?! Obviously you'll have to insert those on dry land! You can do it!! 

I'm just psyching myself up for number 4. You've convinced me to have a go in the bath - nothing to lose (unless I drown of course). If that fails I'll try on the bed; let's hope there is some interesting traffic to listen to. I tried with music some time ago but that was too distracting. I get paranoid that my neighbours will know what I'm up to, or that the window cleaner will arrive, or something, although I do keep the blinds shut in the bedroom. It is not going to beat me though. I did a size test against dh this morning - 4 is pretty similar!

Let me know how you get on, and I'll do likewise.

Emma, xx
p.s. hope we haven't scared everyone away!


----------



## emmadaffodil

Hello again,

Mixed success this afternoon. I tried in the bath and number 1 went in easily. Then I tried number 4 (thinking I was on a roll with thus bath idea) and no luck. I just couldn't get the angle right and didn't have room to open my legs wide enough. Plus I was slipping further and further down the bath! 
Then I tried on my bed and, after some initial resistance, managed to get it in. It still hurts, but not as much as the other day. It is a burning/tearing sensation. I left it in for about 10 minutes but it still hurt. I couldn't let my mind wander today. Still, it is a start. I can work on relaxing and getting past the pain another day!

How has it gone with you Annie?

Emma, xx


----------



## AnnieR

Morning Emma

Sorry the bath idea didn't pan out, it was worth a shot though. Well done getting number 4 in again  

That burning/tearing sensation you described is just how I used to feel when people tried to insert anything - and I hate hearing it so I can't believe I'm about to say it - "but it's because the muscles aren't relaxed enough" (sorry ) You're making amazing progress though and I am 100% confident that with a little practice you will have that thing flying in in no time and be well on your way to number 5, intercourse, childbirth and anything else you feel like!

Well, I haven't been able to do anything. Once again I have no idea what my body is playing at. Yesterday I was pretty confident that AF was about to start for real. It didn't get any pace yesterday which is pretty normal for me. Day 1 is always a bit slow.I was expecting to wake up this morning though with crippling AF pains and some serious bright red - and nothing!!! I am starting to get a bit worried now. What the hell is going on?!?!?!

I've got accupuncture today, so maybe she can work some magic?

I'll sign back in when I get back and tell you how it goes today

Have you got any exciting plans for the weekend?


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## emmadaffodil

Hello Annie,

Sorry still no af for you. Perhaps you should steal yourself to do a hpt, if only for peace of mind? I quite understand why you wouldn't want to though. Could be that stress is causing things to be so erratic.
How was acupuncture? Someone has recommended an acupuncturist near me so I'm going to give her a call on Monday. Dh is very sceptical....

Your're right about the burning/tearing sensation. I'd had it before when the psych counsellor stuck her fingers in me! I'll get past it though.

I'm having a lazy day today. Dh isn't working, and we've just been shopping - fruit, tennis balls for the dog, alcohol, what more do you need for a weekend? Going to spend the rest of the day walking the dogs, eating, reading the papers etc. Perhaps I'll even make some progress with things later!

Emma, xx
ps - hello everyone else, wherever you are.


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## AnnieR

Afternoon

Accupuncture was fabulous as always. Even believe it did some good as AF has finally gained some momentum, yet has remained pain free thus far. I'm happy. Should be enough flow for tampons tomorrow now. So now I've talked the talk about using them again for so long it's time to walk the walk and do it! 

Papers, walks and alcohol sounds perfect. I just totally pigged out at Pizza Hut with my friend and her 2 girls. Gave the eldest a lesson on 25% as that's how much we got off the bill!!!!

Just chilling out for a few hours on the sofa with my new Dawsons Creek DVD's - (sad I know) and my lovely fleecy blanket.Taking full advantage of having the house to myself for another 2 hours. Then we're off to a BBQ 5 doors away. Perfect staggering distance.

Speak to you tomorrow xxx

Helllooooo - everyone else!


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## Donna Taylor

Hi everyone,

Big well done Emma, on your success with #4 you really amaze me I didn't get passed mumber 1/2!
AF arrived today and I have ahd PMT from hell. Going to try again with tampons later, so fingers crossed.

Not sure who asked but I will be having my 3rd cycle at the same hospital (GUYS) did want to change but others where far to pricy and wanted to charge us for doing there own set of tests that we had already had done.

All this talk of accupuncture has really interested me, might give it ago if I can afford it.

Sorry your AF is all over the place at the moment, good luck with tampons

Take care xx

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil

Hello everyone,

Donna - so glad you are back. I've missed you! How is the new job going? You haven't said much about it. I guess you've had too much else going on. Perhaps 3rd time lucky with Guys? Are you starting again in June?

Annie - sounds like a great day. I love Dawson's Creek, although I don't watch it if dh is around. I'm still working my way through my Dallas DVDs (2 episodes down, only 27 to go)! My day hasn't been quite as relaxing as I planned. Dh decided to do all the DIY that has been waiting for weeks. We now have one lop-sided mirror at the top of the stairs (he claims that the floor mustn't be level), and 6 holes in the bathroom wall where he tried to drill to fix a mirror and gave and had a bit of a strop. I kept my head down. Now he is cooking paella to make up for it.

Hope everyone else is OK. Apologies for any spelling errors - I've drunk too much wine!

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

Job is going well I am just so tired when I get home.
I love my job but it is beginning to get me down that I have no time to do anything, I dont see my friends or really talk to DH as Iam so tired.
I never get the chance to come on the pc either. I am Hoping I will get used to it but at the mo it is a killer.

I am hoping that it will be 3rd time lucky at GUYS, yes hopefully having next traetment in June got an appointment on the 13th to discuss it.


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## AnnieR

Welcome Back Donna!!! I'm gald the job is going so well and that you love it. It is a little bit concerning to hear you seem to be working so hard though. You sound absolutely knackered. Maybe it is just settling in period and once you find your feet it'll all come together - just take care of yourself and remember to make yourself Numero Uno   

Great to hear that you're getting ready for treatment number 3. I think Emma is right and it'll be third time lucky. If you can stretch for a little bit of accupuncutre with it this time, I would totally recommend it. If anything it would give you an hour totally devoted to you and your relaxtion. I float out of my sessions every time. 

Morning Emma - We got home at 1am after the BBQ!!! It was a great evening. I managed to not get totally obliterated but had a good few drinks none the less.I am dragging my heels at having to clean the house now, but we've got friends coming over for something to eat later and the deal was that DH cooks and I clean.
Thought I could squeeze 1 more episode of Dawsons in whilst DH is at Sainsbury's. Thought it worth the nagging when in walks in and sees I'm still in my p.j's 
AF flow has bloody well come to almost non existent again. This is seriously beginning to a) - p*** me off and b) - worry me. I'll worry about it tomorrow - too tired to care right now!
How's your head this morning! does the mirror that DH put up suddenly look straight this morning  

wishing you both a lovely Sunday. Speak to you later on xxx


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## Donna Taylor

Morning all,

I  definately will enquire about acupuncture I do feel I need time for me I will a few places tommorrow.
The nursery where I am working is short staffed at the mo so you are working non stop from 8-6 (I do get an hour lunch) We are also opening a new building to expand the nursery, OFSTED are coming to inspect and hopefully gives us the ok to open tommorrow, fingers crossed as I am opening that once it is open and more staff are employeed things will get better.

Inserted Tampon this morning and cant feel it at all! (its regular size) 
something to make you laugh, cant believe I was so stupid. I didn't bother reading the instructions so inserted the whole thing! applicater aswell! doh! had much better luck second go - after reading instructions.

Going shopping in a bit although don't have anymoney, the only reason we are going is to get money out of bank to pay our rent! so depressing really want a spending spree!!!!!!
will probably see 100's of babies and pregnant people while we are out as they seem to follow me around!

Hope you are all having a relaxing sunday

Donna xx


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## Donna Taylor

Afternoon all,

Hubby and I were talking at breakfast and we have decided to try and have full sex later today! really not sure how it all came about!
we both just want to get cracking with it, fertility treatment is getting us down emotionally and financially so we thought we would kinda push ourselves to get this sorted! hope it works

Off to consume a large amount of wine...........

Donna xx


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## Donna Taylor

It went in!!!!!!!!!!!!! wo wo  

Didn't keep it n long but in is in!
did hurt but not as much as before, felt uncomfortable.
Maybe if we keep working with it I will even start to enjoy it!

2 weeks till ovulation, maybe I can conceive naturally after all! - but lets not get ahead of oursleves.

Hapy Sunday evening to you all

Donna xxx

P.s couldn't have done it without the support if you guys xx


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## emmadaffodil

Hello everyone!

Wow, Donna, you are on a roll at the moment! That is fantastic news!!! You've really made me want to try now!     I am so pleased for you!!
Well done on the tampons too. I knew you could do it. After all the poking and prodding of the IUI I knew you'd be able to manage it! 
Sounds like you do need a bit of TLC and pampering. I really hope things get easier for you at work soon. 

Annie - glad you are having such a good weekend. How many episodes of Dawson's Creek today?! No, the mirror doesn't look any straighter today. If I lean to the right as I walk up the stairs and approach it then I can almost pretend that it is straight. DIY really isn't his thing.

Hope everyone else is OK.

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

Oh Emma poor DH, bet he tried so hard to bless him.
I cant believe I have actually done it after 5 years!!!! feel like a teenager!
As you said emma IUI has helped pyscologically, if I can have the ultra sound wand thing up there then why not have sex! tried my largest vibrator first today which is about the size of DH and that went in so mentally I now know that it is possible! hopefully thats the biggest huddle over now just have to wait and see. we will def try when I am ovulating even if it is painfull it is less painfull than IUI - or it was today anyway.

Back to work tomorrow, and an OFSTED inspection

Speak to you all soon xx


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## AnnieR

Dear Lord - how did so much happen whilst I was gone!

Donna- Congratulations!!!! That's really fantastic news. I am so pleased for you.  This is it for you now, I am positive. By the time ovulation comes around you'll be a pro and will totally fall pregnant. Can I just say that if you have twin girls - Annie & Emma would make beautiful names  

Emma - I confess, 2 episodes today of Dawsons - 3 if I can stay awake any longer.

Soooo - I have news too!!!! I wore a tampon today. 3 hours and 42 minutes to be exact. Once I'd stabbed at the entrance and got the angle right the applicator slipped in nicely. A deep breath later and I'd pushed the other one in and the job was done. I have to report though that it felt liked I'd pushed some air up there, like there was a bubble caught in the pipework. A friend who came for lunch today promised me this is quite normal. I can't believe I've done it after all this time. Pulling it out wasn't too bad either. Another couple of deep breathes and it was alright. Don't think there was enough flow today really, but it doesn't matter cause I've done it now and I felt like King Kong on drugs.

I can't believe the amazing progress we are all making. I have to say that I couldn't have done any of this without you ladies. Having this support just keeps egging me on to try more and push myself further. I love being able to run back and tell you guys that I've taken another step forward - and it feels like not only a success for me, but for all of us vag girls.

So I'm ready to go for the smear now.I reckon I could take on the world tonight.

Good night girls. talk to you tomorrow xxx


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## emmadaffodil

Good morning!

I can't get over how much progress everyone has made in such a short time! It is fantastic!!! Everytime I come on here someone has some amazing news. It definately helps me to know that I can come back and tell you guys if I make any progress  (or when things don't go so well), and it spuirs me on to hear what great strides you are all making.

Donna - you will be such a pro by the time of ovulation, I'm sure. Good luck with OFSTED.

Annie - well done on the tampon. I can't believe you timed it! Have you tried again since? I think it is worse pulling them out than putting them in - I don't like the popping feeling!

Hope everyone else is OK.

Have a great day,
Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Morning!

Flow seems to have slowed down again so no more tampons for me. I've also gone ahead and taken clomid this morning. I'm sure it'll be fine. I just cannot cope with 60 day cycles anymore, it's driving me nuts. Can't wait for those hot flashes again!


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## emmadaffodil

Hello again,

Does Clomid regulate af and ovulation, Annie? Did you have to be prescribed it by a GP?

Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Hi Emma - Clomid does regulate your cycles. I was on it for a while about a year ago. It was prescribed by a Consultant Gynacologist because after I came off the pill my periods were getting as far as 100+ days apart. The ones I took today were the left overs.

Maybe not a clever thing to have done - I don't know. I couldn't think of a reason not to.


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## Donna Taylor

Annie, well done with the tampon, not so sure about the clomid though, is it still in date? you should be cafefully taking drugs when you are not under doctors supervision but guess you know that and don't need a lecture form me.

Still feel pretty good after yesterday, may have another go maybe tonight or tommorrow we will see.

Found out today although not officially yet that my brother as got his girlfriend pregnant!!!!!!!!!! not sure how I feel about it yet, I guess a bit angry and I know that is selfish and I will be happy for him but it wasn't planned and it only took him to have sex once without protection and there it is a baby.
I hate feeling so bittier about my own brother and neice or nephew.

I think he is going to phone me him self later tonight to tell me the good news.

Hope you all had a good monday

Donna xx


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## AnnieR

Hi Donna -  I understand what you're feeling right now. A real mix of envy and happiness. My younger brother and his girlfriend fell pregnant after a drunken night fumble whilst her parents were away. I felt a bit envious at the time and then a bit sad that they didn't decide to continue with the pregnancy. But now I know it was the right thing for them to do. I also know I would have loved that little person so much, because he/she would have been my family - a part of me allbeit a small bit. That baby is going to love you so much and you'll be it's Auntie Donna - and it'll be great.

I feel a compete dumb ass for taking Clomid now. I just wanted to do something to get  back on track, but what for if I'm going for IUI soon anyway. Maybe I should stop. But I can't help say to myself, well why not. What if this is the time for me to do it naturally. I'm relaxing alot more about everything - it could happen. I am the most impatient and impulsive person you will ever come across and you'll all curse the day I found this thread.

Emma - I think I've done about 6 episiodes of Dawson since I got home from work. I've moved off the sofa briefly to cook dinner, pee and get a bowl of ice cream. Yep before you ask- I really am that sad.


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## emmadaffodil

Hello!

Donna - I know what you mean about your brother. I felt like that with my nieces and nephew. I found it so hard to say 'congratulations' and feel happy for them, when all the time I was thinking it was so unfair (1st one was unplanned, and the next 2 followed rapidly). We had been married longer etc, and everyone expected us to produce children first. But once you meet them all that just falls away. It is just wonderful being an Auntie! Anyway, perhaps your time will come soon too..... Try not to dwell on it. Think about all your amazing achievements over the past few days.

Annie - I don't know how you manage to fit in so many episodes of DC! I've only managed 1 of Dallas in the last few days.

Good night,
Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Evening Ladies! - I've been on a course today so not been able to log on til now. The course was awful today. They had actors in and we had to role play with them. I completely lost my flow on the first go and it was soooo embarassing! 2 more days of it, but no more actors! I also ate like a Mammoth today. They laid on so much nice food I felt compelled to eat it. Now my jeans are digging in!

Emma - I shall have to pass on my DVD watching skills. First lesson - assume comfy position on sofa, preferred method is led flat with a fleece blanket to snuggle and then do not move for next 5 hours. Pee breaks are permitted but no more than 2 minutes.

Let me know how you get on. I have to go and practice what I preach now. Season 3 is calling me and it's totally the best season out of all of them!


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## emmadaffodil

Morning everyone,

Annie - I will definately take your DVD tips on board! Don't think I really need much help. Our sofa has a huge dent in it from my TV watching position. What will you do when you have watched all your DVDs? Is there life after DC?
I feel so sorry for you having to role play; that is my worst nightmare. I would (and have done in the past) do anything to avoid it! Were any of the actors famous?

Donna - hope everything is OK. Have you had another go yet?! How did it go with your brother?

Hope everyone else is OK. I've been practicing with number 4 but still no 'real' action! 
Broke my new strimmer this morning.....

Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Afternoon All

No actors today thank God - but really long and boring day.

However some amazing news - My best friend had a baby girl this morning. I'm off to the hospital in half an hour to see her and find out her name!!! My friend won't tell me til I get there. It's been a secret the whole pregnancy. I think it might be Ella or Sophie, but who knows! I'm going to rub the baby across my belly for luck when I get there!!!!

Think I'm going to have something to keep me occupied when DC finishes now. It's so exciting. I can't wait for it to be me.

I was talking to another good friend today about the progress I'd made with the speculum and how I felt ready to have a smear and the tube test. She sort of poo pooed it and said I hadn't got anywhere unless I had cranked the thing open and then went on to describe how uncomfortable that bit is. Now she's scared me again. She thinks she might be pregnant so I might have a new one to deal with in a day or two. Getting used to everyone beating me to it now.

Emma - Well done for perservering with #4 and don't worry about the real action , it will happen.

I'll pop back later and let you know who gorgeous the baby is.


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## emmadaffodil

Hi Annie,

Congrats on your friend's baby. Perhaps some babydust will rub off on you! Don't worry about everyone beating you to it on the baby front. Just think, you'll be able to get advice from all of them and have all the baby clothes and other stuff that they've finished with. Anyway, perhaps it won't be so long before it is your turn.
Don't worry about what your other friend said. If you think that you are ready to have a smear and/or tube test, that is the most important thing. This condition is so much about the mind. Somehow you'll get through it because you want it so badly. My gynae said that many women who manage sex without any problems still can't manage a speculum.

Hope you have a lovely evening,
Emma, xx


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## Candy

New home ladies, Candy x


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## Candy

New home this way ladies;

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,29945.new.html#new

Good luck x


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## AnnieR

Thanks Candy!

Aaah, I've just got back from the hospital and the baby is gorgeous. They called her Ella Jane. I had some nice cuddles. My poor friend looks absolutely knackered and still out of it from the gas & air and drugs. She was trying desperately hard to stay awake, bless her. Both Mum & Dad look shell shocked. 

I thought I'd feel so envious, but I didn't. She's my best friends daughter and she's going to be a special person in my life and I love her already. 

Sorry got a bit soppy for a mo. 

I really want to get going on IUI now. I'll just have to find a way to get through it.


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## emmadaffodil

Hello everyone!

Annie - Ella is such a lovely name. I've often thought that I'd like to call a daughter Ella, but then Ella and Emma sounds a bit weird! I'd also like an Elizabeth too! Anyway, if I ever have a child my MIL tells me it is bound to be a boy (dh is one of 3 boys  - and a sister - and all his family have 3 boys). I only allow myself to pick girls' names. I'm sure you'll love every minute you spend with her.

Hope everyone else is OK. MIL is coming to visit in the next few days. I've got to find somewhere MIL-proof to hide all my dilators, vag books and infertility books!

Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Ha Ha - good luck MIL proofing the house!!! Would be a tadge embarassing if she went hunting for a candle and....

I love the name Ella too. I'll confess to you my chosen names as I'm sure you've got yours picked out like most women. At this period of time I would go for Victoria Kate or Joshua Roman. We'll have to look back on this e-mail in time to come and see if we stuck to these names!

Hey and no more of this "IF" - surely you mean "WHEN"

So I had a bit of a mare this morning. AF has been pretty steady over the last few days. Small but consistent. However... I woke up at 5am with an unusual cramp in the lower abdomen. Not your typical period cramps, more similar to a muscle cramp. I didn't think too much of it. It wasn't enough to keep me awake, but I was very much aware of it til I got up at 8am. When I got up I padded to the bathroom for a pee and felt a bit wet. Well, it was like the chain saw massacre had occurred. There was blood everywhere. Soaked right through my p.j's. I then had this almighty hot flash and started feeling nauseous. 

On hindsight I don't know if I panicked at seeing all that blood or felt sick because I thought the Clomid had had an almighty evil side effect.Or did I feel sick from the pain? I have never been so scared in all my life. The flow has calmed right down and there is no more pain, nausea or hot flashes. I still didn't take Clomid today though - just in case

One positive - I can make real use of tampons today!


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## AnnieR

Oh God - Friend I was telling you about has just called. She's just done a test and she's pregnat. First month of trying. I am sooo good at doing the whole excited for you thing that she's on her way round right now. Apart from her partner I'm the only one who knows.

Oh God, this is just unbearable. One best friend gives birth yesterday and just when I think I might get a break another one falls.

I HATE MY LIFE!


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## emmadaffodil

Hello again,

Annie - are you OK? Sounds like you've had one hell of a day! Perhaps it was the side effect of the Clomid? I think sometimes a little blood can go a long way if you don't have a tampon/towel. Probably best to keep off the Clomid, or at least see a doctor if you plan to continue. Do you feel OK now?

I think your chosen names are great. All my first choice ones are off-limits because they'll offend someone on one side of the family or another, or are associated with death, or have already been taken by the people who've beaten me to it with the baby thing. MIL wants any son to be named after my FIL (died of cancer in his early 50s) but it seems a bit unlucky to me.  like the idea of names that you can abbreviate most of the time and use in full when they do something naughty! Must stop, I'm drifting into fantasy baby daydreaming mode!

Hope you feel better soon. You definately need a Dawson's Creek evening with lots of chocolate, ice-cream and wine tonight.

Hope everyone else is OK. Donna - how are things?

Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Evening Emma

I'm fine now. Just got back from a night out with my team. I totally pigged out on chinese food.

Good news is I put a tampon in after I logged off. It slipped right in and I kept it there for 4 hours. Think I've mastered that totally now. Flow is normal again and pain is gone totally. Never again!!!!

I'm back to work tomorrow, so I can have a proper chat


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## emmadaffodil

Annie - so glad you are feeling better. More role playing today?

Something has gone wrong with my ears. Went to see a nurse this morning and apparently they are full of mucus (sorry TMI)! It is really disconcerting. All sounds, especially TV and radio are loud and muffled. It came on all of a sudden yesterday. I have to steam my head with Albas Oil and take some Sudafed. Can't do it yet - I'm waiting for a plumber to arrive and fit my outside tap (very exciting); mind you, can't think of a better way to make him turn up. 

Have a good day everyone,
Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Well today must be a day for bad events for us Emma. I passed a blood clot this morning the size of a ...well I'm not sure but it was pretty big. I am having a complete nightmare with this period. It was so gross. I felt some movement down there and thought I had just passed a large volume of blood which happens from time to time with heavy periods, does it not? Well I pulled my Bridgets down to check and there was hardly any red. Don't ask me why, but my eyes were drawn to my bits and there was this huge thing protruding out of me and then it plopped into my pants!!!!!!!!!!!

I felt like heaving - eeewwwww!!!!

Better out than in though I guess. and maybe it's a good thing to have a clear out before treatment?!?!?


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## emmadaffodil

Goodness Annie, you poor thing! That would traumatise me for the whole day! Are you OK now? I guess it was so long coming that it built up inside to the mega-period from hell. Are you in pain too? Did it happen at work, and were you able to carry on like nothing had happened afterwards?

Hope the rest of your day is less traumatic.

Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Hi Emma

I'm actually laughing about this morning now. It was like something straight out of a Hollywood comedy. If you only you could have seen my face - utter shock and disbelief!

I am having no pain whatsoever nor has there been any repeats of this mornings events. I was at home luckily, just before I left for work. I car share with a good friend who lives 5 doors away so unfortunately she got the first edition of the news! I did spend the rest of the morning convinced I was passing another one and kept popping to the loo to check. 

I think you're right though and that it must have built up over the last few months. Maybe the last one I had wasn't a real one and now I've got about 6 months build up!!!!

The rest of the day has been fine. I spent most of it e-mailing my friend about our other friends pregnacy announcement yesterday (make sense?) She's recently started trying for a baby and I think she took the news alot worse than I did. She reacted in the same way I would have done about 2 years ago and I could see she was gutted. I just wanted to let her know that I really understand that feeling and that it's alright to feel that way. Doesn't make you a bad person. 


I spoke to my other friend who had Ella on Wednesday which was lovely. She's doing really well. Then I think the clomid kicked in because can you believe I cried when she said Ella had her first outing in her pushchair today! I cried over that rather than my friend who announced her pregnancy?!?! I was more jealous about first push of the buggy than the fact she had just had a baby.

Clomid does some evil things to you Emma - avoid it if you can!

Anyway I feel this conversation has been very much me me me lately and I vow from this moment to change that.

So Emma - how is the ear? Did the plumber catch you with the Olbas Oil? How's the outdoor tap?  Was the plumber the dishy type you see in late night films? Did he offer to loosen your pipes?!?!


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## emmadaffodil

What sort of late night films do you watch, Annie?! 
Plumber was in his 60s. Very pleasant gentleman but in no way dishy! Outdoor tap is fabulous. Spent yesterday afternoon playing with my hosepipe (even though it was raining)!  
Ears still bunged up. I tried steaming with Olbas Oil, but got bored. Perhaps I'll give it another go today. I've woken up stupidly early this morning, after dreaming of hosepipes  , and can't sleep. Dh is dead to the world. 

I'm so glad that you haven't had any repeats of yesterday morning's traumatic events. I'm sorry you got upset about baby stuff. Your turn will come! Are you still taking the Clomid? Are you going to have the tube test soon? I'm sure that you'll be able to get through it.

Have a lovely weekend. Are you doing anything nice? I have a day of cleaning and cooking ahead of me - MIL, SIL and all her offspring are coming tomorrow. Back to bed now though...

Emma, xx

p.s hope everyone else is OK. Where are you all?!
Back to bed for me.


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## AnnieR

Oh my word. I thought I had gotten up at stupid o' clock today - but 5am 

I haven't got any plans this weekend for a change. Guess what I'm watching at the moment though to pass a bit of time - and no it's not any dodgy late night films! I'm nearly out of Dawsons DVD's 

I haven't seen my Mum for a while. Must go and check her and the dog out today! I always assume if she's not phoning me every 5 minutes that she's doing alright or her precious baby boy has graced her with his presence. Maybe my younger brother is home? 

I stayed off the clomid after 3 days of it and the events of the first morning of hell. I'm still bleeding a fair bit, but I don't think there's anything too concerning. I do wish it would stop though. I am so done with the blood. I'm just waiting for it to stop and I'm going to go for the smear test. If I get through that I am totally booking the tube test. I've really been believing I can do it over the last few days, but now I think the tampon success might have gone to my head and that I was being a bit cocky.

I've ordered some ovulation sticks in the hope I can also have a go naturally this month. Now that's seems a bit way out!

Wishing you luck with the Out Laws tomorrow. Let me know how it all goes!

Hi to everyone else if you're still there!


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## Donna Taylor

Hi everyone,

Annie I know what you mean about baby stuff, sometimes I am upset by prefnant people and sometimes I'm upset by baby bath in the supermarket!! stupid I know but sometimes its the baby styff that bothers me not the baby, hormones eh!!!

Tried to have sex on tuesday again but didn't manage it although progress was made. we didn't manage to insert it but found a better position if that makes sense plan to try again tonight! really want to get cracking with it for ovulation next week.

Hope you are both feeling better, what a time of it you are both having

Take care

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil

Hello again!

Just had to tell you (but dh has been hogging the computer all day) that I almost/sort of had sex this morning! I got the penis in OK (far less painful and uncomfortable than the dilator) but when dh started thrusting it came out again. Got it in again and the same happened! At least it is a start. Perhaps I used too much lube, but I don't think I'd have got anywhere without that. Perhaps we'll try again later.

Donna, glad you're making progress too. You've got a few days to practice. How did things go with your brother?

Donna, Annie - if you have any tips I'd love to hear them!

Annie - do I gather that you don't get on with your brother? I have a younger brother who is fairly useless but can do no wrong in my parents' eyes.

Have a good evening. Eurovision-viewing for me!
Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Morning Ladies!

Congrats all round on the sex front. I'm not sure I have got any tips Emma. I've been on AF for so long I can't remember it!!!! How about rather than thrusting you start out with more of a gentle rocking motion?

Good Luck Donna - keep going with the practice and I'm sure you'll be there by ovulation. How exciting.

I'm hoping we can have a go at trying the natural way too this month. I'll let you know as soon as we get any practice in ourselves!

Emma - I get on fantastically with my Brother. We became particularly close over the last 2-3 years after our Dad was diagnosed with cancer and passed away last year. I was being a tadge bit sarcastic the other day as he is still my Mum's baby boy and she does get rather excited when he comes home!

Good Luck everyone! xxxx


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## Donna Taylor

Emma, That is fantastic news!!!!!! we tried again today and success!! still painfull but slighlty less then before I think - hard to remember.
We to had trouble with it slipping all over the place because of the lub, but I feel I need it at the mo! Wont be able to use it next week as it will kill the sperm, so not sure how I will get on without it.
Not sure I am the best person to be giving tips but we have found the best position is with me kneeling on top, It hurts me to when DH is thrusting so we found that with me on top I am more in control and can gentle rock, if that makes sense.
Let me know how you get on.

Annie, how is AF now? better I hope!
They way us three are all going maybe we all be pregnant next month, now there would be a thing. fingers crossed!!!

Take care Donna xx


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## AnnieR

How amazing would that be Donna! That comment alone has given me huge motivation to really give it a go this month. However, I still haven't got any practice in yet! AF is still there in reasonable amounts. I think it is starting to slow down though. I've ordered some ovulation kits just in case we are good to go.

Emma - How did Sunday go with the In Laws? Anymore practice for you since we last spoke?


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## emmadaffodil

Good morning!

Hope you all had a good weekend. I had a lovely day with the in-laws. I had a fab time larking around with my nieces and baby nephew. 

Donna - you are doing so well! Are you still going to do IUI in June? It would be fantastic if you conceived in the first month of 'normal' sex! I agree that the lube is a problem. There are sprem-friendly lubricants (Liquid Silk and Preseed), but they're not so great as lubricants - less slippery! We haven't had another go since Saturday, but I definately want to try at ovulation time. Af due today and dh working v.late, so no chance of practicing for a few days.

Annie - so sorry to get the wrong end of the stick about your brother! Sorry about your dad too. My FIL died from cancer 3 years ago, and it is just awful to see someone go through that.

Have a great day everyone!

Emma,xx


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## AnnieR

Emma - Please don't apologise. It was a very valid question and I want you to know you can ask me anything you like, anytime xxx


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## Donna Taylor

Annie glad I inspired you, we are all doing so well and I truely beleive its because we have each other. I have been trying to beat this for 5 years and since talking to you guys and the IUI I have been really motivated to move forward.
Hearing the success everyone else has made as given me cofidence.

Emma, found preseed on the net but its quite expensive espesially if it isn't that good. A friend suggested that durex liquid silk is sperm friendly so going to check that out.

Hopefully not going for third round of IUI in june, will see how we get on at the weekend before cancelling appoinment though, but hopefully no more treatment and my credit card wont take a hammering each month - well maybe it will but i can use it for more enjoyable things.

Don't preasure yourself to much though emma, I never thought it would but one day it will happen and I am sure they way you are going that day cant be to far away!

Love you all

Donna xx


----------



## pollyhoping

Hi everybody. 

I hope you don't mind me posting here, as I don't have vag (at the moment, but have had problems in the past.) However, I have lurked a bit over the past few weeks, and have found you a helpful and supportive group, and might help me.

I need some information about dilators - I have the remnants of a transverse vaginal septum, which is our ttc problem (well, one of them), as it constricts my vagina about 3 cm from my cervix, obviously preventing proper bd and sperm getting where it should. We went to see a private consultant today who is going to have another go at surgery to fix it, and told me to go and get some dilators in preparation for afterwards, when I need to be keeping it open. He suggested a chemist in Wigmore St in London, and while we were in London anyway, we went there. 

It was awful. I had just enough courage to approach the counter, with my written note from the consultant, but was told to go to another counter in a different part of the shop. When I went to the back of the shop it wasn't clear which counter I should go to, and I waited (and waited) to find a female assistant. And my courage was disappearing and I could feel the tears pricking. Finally I found someone and asked her to help. She was great, and took me to the counter, and then asked me what size. I was quite shocked, as I thought they came in a set and that was that. The consultant hadn't said. I had no idea, and just burst into tears. I had left DH in another part of the shop, and couldn't get to him without the whole shop seeing that I was crying. The assistant was great and took me to a corner of the shop and brought me some water and was very understanding. She even brought me a phone so that I could ring the consultant back, but I just wanted to get out of the shop (which I eventually managed). 

I have left a message for the consultant to get back to me with the information, but I wondered if in the meantime, any of you can tell me anything about dilators that might help when I go back (if ever!). 

Thanks in advance for your help.

Polly


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## AnnieR

Hi Polly - Welcome! I'm really pleased you found us helpful and I'm really glad you had the courage to tell us all about you. I'm not the dilator expert I'm afraid, but I'm sure Emma would be more than happy to tell you about her experiences with them (now that she's a pro  )
That must have been really awful for you in the Chemist, but try not to worry about it. If the Consultant knew about the place he must refer his patients there all the time, so they must have seen many ladies in a similar position to you. 
I wish you lots of luck with your surgery Polly and please keep us posted on your progress. I hope I can help you in the future somehow, maybe with a chat or tales of my endless encounters with infertility!!!

Emma/Donna - Gave sex a go last night. It wasn't a complete disaster, but darn close. I stupidly tried without lube knowing full well that straight after a period I am as dry as the Sahara. So DH hurt when he entered and I don't think he got that far in. My bits were stinging afterwards from all the friction I'm sure! 
It hasn't put me off though and I am not letting this thing beat me. I shall be having anotehr go real soon and i shall lube up no end!


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## emmadaffodil

Hello everyone,

Polly - welcome! It is very brave of you to share your experiences with us. What an ordeal you had at the chemists, you poor thing! I have been very lucky as I see a gynaecologist for my vag and he gives me the dilators himself. He gave me them one at a time, upgrading every month or so. I couldn't bear the idea of having to go to a chemists and ask for them! They come in sets of 4 or 8 (obviously with the 8 they get gradually bigger, whereas with the 4 the change is a bit more abrupt). I have the set of 4. You can buy them on the internet, for example at www.pharmacy2you.co.uk. I've had other stuff from there and it came really quickly and discreetly packaged. The ones there are plastic, and aren't the most attractive items in the world, but they'll do the job! Mine are glass, which I think is quite unusual, and they are actrually quite attractive (in a weird kind of way); I guess it is just what they had lying around at the hospital. You can get a set of 8 from www.vaginismus.com, but they come from the US and take a lot longer to get here. When I first started with them just looking at them made me feel sick, but now I'm quite fond of them! If you are going to buy them individually, I'd get at least numbers 1 to 3. Supposedly number 4 is the size of the average male (it is the same width as my dh but a bit shorter). If you have any more questions please feel free to ask. I'd love to hear how you get on. When is your surgery? I hope that goes well for you.

Donna - I also thought Preseed was a bit pricey. I've been using Liquid Silk with the syringe, but it isn't very good as a lube, even if it is sperm-friendly. Probably better than trying without though. It is wonderful to think that you might not need to go through with the IUI!

Annie - sorry you didn't have the best time last night. Glad it hasn't put you off. We'll all be experts (or sexperts!) in no time!

Have a good day everyone!
Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Hi - sorry it's me again. I'm really stressing about last night. I've convinced myself that we'll never be able to do it and it's going to hurt too much. I'm not even sure if the lube I have is safe. I have got some Liquid Silk, but I haven't got alot of confidence in it.

I really want to do this naturally. I feel like I'm clinging onto something impossible. Why don't I just do the IUI like I planned  

sorry - just needed to confess!


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## emmadaffodil

Hi Polly - just realised I got the web address wrong earlier. It should be www.pharmacy2u.co.uk. Sorry about that!

Annie - perhaps you should use a different lube just after af, when conceiving isn't a possibility and you are really dry (such as KY or Aquagel), and save the Liquid Silk for ttc days? It isn't an impossible dream to think that you could conceive naturally at all. You were just having an 'off' day. 

Sorry, got to go. Will post later,
Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Emma - That is such a fab idea - I love it!!!! Thanks soooooo much.


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## emmadaffodil

Hello again!

Annie- that is what I do with the dilators. I prefer Aquagel to KY (which is just a bit too sticky).

Af in full flow for me. I'm still getting excited by the whole tampon-using thing!

Hope everyone else is OK.

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

Hello Polly so glad you joined us, I think Emma has covered all the angles on Dilators so I wont add anything there as its all covered. Sorry to hear you had such a nightmare. How are you feeling now?

Annie - Please do not be put off but the other night. I as taken me 5 1/2 years to have penetration with DH, these things take time don't puch yourself to hard. And no I do not think you are silly at all for wanting to do it naturally I know exactly where you are coming from, You go for it girl what have you got to loose? if for whatever reason it doesn't work out you still have IUI.

Emma- cant not beleive you put fond and dilators in the same sentense!!! bet you never thought you would be saying that a few months ago.
How are the tampons going


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## pollyhoping

Thank you all for your warm welcome and encouragement. I feel a bit better today, but I am still a bit shaky. Although the appointment with the consultant yesterday was a good one, it is always a bit of an ordeal talking about my issue, and because of what it is, it means that my first gynae surgery was at the tender age of 11, and has left me a bit weepy when I need to deal with it. In fact I can get a bit weepy around doctors generally, which I find totally embarrassing. It's just a little scar that I am left with I suppose. 

I have had a answer back from the consultant that I need to get sizes 1-3, and I will phone the chemist tomorrow. DH is in London tomorrow and will pick them up. He wouldn't have any problem asking for them, bless him, but he can't always be relied on to get the right thing! So if I can get them ordered and ready for him, so he only needs to pay, it would be better. 

Emma, I don't yet know when the surgery will be, I am just waiting for the secretary to call and make arrangements. But it should be in about two weeks. Then we will have another go at IUI. We did IUI last month with no success, but obviously the view was somewhat obscured, so we might have more success when the relevant people can see what they are doing. Or we might even have a chance naturally when we can get the sperm in the right place! 

Take care
Polly


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## AnnieR

Morning Everyone!

Polly - Hi, good to see you here again. Glad you're feeling a bit better. Best of luck with the dilators -let us know when you get them and maybe we can discuss top tips for inserting them. Like your idea of ordering them first. I'd have to do that for my DH too!

Emma - Go for the tampons!!!!! If I could manage, you definitely can. I'm feeling excited for you!!! 

Donna - Thanks for the encouragment. We had another go this morning, but I tried going on top again. It went in a little way again. Really don't think that position is working for me, but a bit nervous about doing it the regular way. Maybe cause I'm not in control? Still not put off though, more frustrated than anything. 

SMEAR TEST IS BOOKED!!!!! I don't feel too nervous at the mo, probably because they can't get me in til 9th June (which is also my wedding anniversary).Plenty of time to practice and psych myself up. Friends who are at the same GP suregery as me have said the nurse there is really nice, which has put my mind at rest.

Have a nice day xxx


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## emmadaffodil

Good morning!

Polly - glad you're feeling a bit happier today and have got the dilators problem sorted. Dh's do have their uses after all! I also burst into tears when I see doctors (especially my psychosexual counsellor), and I feel so silly and embarrassed when I do; it just happens out of nowhere and I can't stop it! Keep us posted with news of your operation and dilators. Will you have to wait a while after the op before you can use them?

Annie - well done on booking the smear! Are you ging to tell the nurse to go slowly with you? You could always request a paediatric speculum if it'll be easier for you. If I could manage one then anyone can; I had mine before my lap and dye, which was before I could manage tampons, dilators or anything, and somehow I got through it.

Donna - hello! Tampons are great! Could now do them with my eyes shut. Can't believe that they seemed so impossible a few months ago.

Have a great day, everyone!
Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Well done on the tampons Emma. What's the next plan of action for you now? The natural way, IUI, at home insemination? 
the nurse is already aware of my situation and she gave me a small plastic speculum to play with that seems to fit quite well!!! She's treated ladies with vag in the past so I know she'll be very gentle! I know that once she's got it in I'll be absolutely fine. 

I'm wondering if I should provisionally book the tube test for after the smear? I think if I get through the smear I won't want to hang around too long for the tube test. I dunno - I'm pondering that one for now!


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## pollyhoping

Hi, just popped in to say that the darn things are ordered and paid for and DH is on his way to fetch them. Except that they didn't have No.1, and I forgot to ask if there were any accessories that I needed (like a Lulu Guiness handbag or a matching feather boa    ). Looking at the sets on the internet, they seem to have a lot come with them. Oh well, I'll see what I get and if I think there is anything else I need.

I had some the time before last time I had this op (this will be the fifth time  ) and they were just given to me by the hospital, rather nice glass ones. Unfortunately no-one really explained how important it all was to use and keep using them and/or have lots of sex, and I did neither and eventually gave them back. When DH and I got together, the problem was back, and I went to see about it again (Emma - at the L&D - I wonder if we have seen the same consultant there?!), and this time just had a "stretch"  and was told to have lots of sex. But we didn't as I then got the heebie-jeebies for quite a long time. I have recently got together all my notes from the various hospitals, and was quite surprised that my notes mention being offered dilators at that time as well, but I have no recollection of being offered them. 

Anyway, to cut a long story short, we have been ttc for 3 years, starting when I was 40, and getting nowhere. The scarring from the septum has been closing up, and basically creating a barrier 3 cm from my cervix, making bms useless and iui/ivf a very hit and miss affair (we had one go at iui anyway). I am a bit cross that no-one ever said that it would cause a ttc problem. I feel stupid that I didn't really know myself, (although I wondered about it, which led me to go back to the L&D and ask) and that I have got to this age before I understood. 

The upside of it all it that I do know now, and the nice consultant I saw this week showed it all to me on a tv screen in full glorious close-up technicolor. How cool was that! Maybe it sounds a bit gross, but it was such a relief for me to SEE after 30-odd years just what everyone else had been looking at and going OOOOOO! at! I just couldn't conceptualise what it actually was before, which of course is why I didn't understand the extent that it was getting in the way of ttc.

But now I understand better the management and ongoing care that I need afterwards, it seems worth going through the surgery for a fifth and final time even just to enable ttc.

Thanks for being there. I have read back through previous posts, and I know that you are all really brave and wonderful women, esp Emma and Donna. It is SO hard talking about things that go wrong at the very core of our womanhood.

Take care and big hugs

Polly


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## pollyhoping

Spoke too soon! The chemist just rang and said they sold out of them ALL this morning.   What's that? Some kind of convention just hit town

So they will ring when they get more in. 

Oh, well, I suppose by the time I actually get them, I will have practiced saying v*g*n*l d*l*t*r to lots of strangers, and will have imunised myself to bursting into tears! 

Polly


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## emmadaffodil

Hello again,

Polly - so glad you've come back with your news. I can't believe the chemist sold out of dilators! Perhaps anyone who is anyone is using them these days. If it is the glass ones that you get then you don't need accessories   (apart from lots of lube). The ones on the internet come with a handle that you stick inside or on the end or somewhere, and a brush to clean them with, but the glass ones have a handle built in to them. I just clean mine by running them under hot water or stick them in the dishwasher. I also had the stretch/dilation operation at L&D, although I'm not convinced it made any difference. I see Mr Lobb there. 
You have so made my day by saying I am brave - I feel like the world's least brave person most off the time!

Annie - don't really know what the plan of action is now for sure. I hope that we can manage proper sex on my fertile days this month. If it doesn't work we will definately have another go with the syringe. I think we'll look at trying IUI if things don't work out in the next 2 or 3 months. I feel very lucky as dh has just got a mini-bonus at work, which we could use to fund IUI. 
You should definately book the tube test. You are on a roll now!

Donna, everyone else - hello

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

Polly - you sound happier about things today which is great, I know all this vag and ttc is a very up and down affair!!! keep staying positive if you can as it really does help! you have probably read but I have also had 2 failed IUI attempts I am hoping that we can try naturally this month.

Annie -  well done on booking that smear!!!!!! even though I have had IUI not sure I could have a smear, guess I should have one now really.

Emma - you are doing great and I am sure you will not need IUI but atleast you know its there if you feel you ned it.

I think IUI has helped me over come vag in a stratnge kinda of way. Definatly wouldn't be where I am now without it.
DH ask the pharacist about lube, he reccomended k-y so think we will just carry on using that

Donna xx


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## AnnieR

Emma - Great news about DH's bonus!!! Tuck it away somewhere safe for IUI. Don't go spending it on Jimmy's like I dream of spending my bonus. Mine is going straight to our architect this year.
Fingers crossed for a natural pregnancy this month Emma. I really hope it works for you. How exciting! 
Thanks for the encouragment to book the tube test. I'm not feeling too confident about it just yet. I think I'll give the speculum a go for a few days and try sex again before going for it.

Donna - I'm sure a smear will be a walk in the park after what you've had to endure for IUI. Give it a go and see how you get on.
Can I ask Donna, is KY definitely a safe lube to use when ttc? I've been looking for info everywhere for safe ones. I'm not really sure what you're meant to be looking out for on the packaging. Does it have to be water soluble?

So that's all 3 of us going for the natural way this month. Good Luck girls. I really hope we can do it. It would be amazing.
What cycle days is everyone on? Are we all pretty close together? I'm on day 13

Lots of Love + Positive Vibes! - Annie xxx


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## emmadaffodil

Good morning!

I wish there was a definitive answer about the KY somewhere. I've read conflicting things on the internet. 
It would be wonderful if we could all conceive naturally; I can't get over the fact that we are all considering what seemed impossible a few months ago!

Annie - I am on day 3 of a 26 day cycle, with af still in full flow. Sorry to be gross but I am having the heaviest af I've had for a long time, with lots more cramps and pain than usual. No idea what, if anything, that means. When is your extension happening? Is it going to be like something off 'Grand Designs'? I love that programme!

Donna - I'm sure that the IUI will have helped. I think having all those medics poking and prodding gets your body a bit more used to having having things stuck up it.



Polly - can't wait to hear the latest saga in the dilator-purchasing story!

Have a great day everyone!
Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Hi Emma

Just wondering if you're having a sympathy AF after my heaviest and most painful - EVER! Do you think this could be a good sign for our synchronized conceptions!?!? I recommend a couple of Nurofen and a hot water bottle.

The extension is very much in the early stages. I luuurrrvvv Grand Designs, but no- nothing as gorgeous as that. Did you see the episode where the family had their house shipped in from Finland and it was entirely made of wood? I thought it was amazing.
We're effectively building another house on the side of ours!!! It'll hopefully be a two storey, front to back extension with a conservatory on the back. They've told me it'll take about 5 months to build and I'll have to move out for about 4 of those months. The whole house is going to be knocked around, stairs moved, bathroom taken out and all sorts. I'm dreading it! Just getting some plans drawn up now and I have to decide where I want things. 

I'll keep you posted x


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## emmadaffodil

Annie - extension sounds wonderful. There'll be lots of room for Annie juniors! We'll have to move as and when we ever manage to breed. Our house is just too small. Mind you, babies are quite small at first.
I loved the Finnish house too, and the German Huf house. Wasn't too keen on yesterday's though (Irish church conversion) - great views but the rooms were to narrow.

Back out into the sunshine for me!

Emma, xx


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## emmadaffodil

Me again,

Just wanted to let off steam. I have just done the most stupid thing ever. I've sprayed weedkiller all over my garden, thinking it was greenfly spray. Everything is now going to die, and I am so upset. My garden is my pride and joy and was looking stunning this year (if I say so myself), having taken 3 years to get to that state.   

I won't make that mistake again!

Emma, xx


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## emmadaffodil

Can anything else go wrong today? Something has happened to the plumbing in my kitchen and the sink won't drain out and the dishwasher has flooded the kitchen! Dh has arrived home in the nick of time and ordered me out of the room.

I'm sure it is something to do with this period from hell that I'm having. Everything I touch today goes wrong!

Sorry, rant over. Tomorrow is another day.

Emma, xx


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## pollyhoping

Emma

I don't know if this will work, but I wonder if drenching the garden with lots of water from the hosepipe would rescue any of the plants? It would ensure that the weedkiller was washed into the soil, which might not be a good thing, but it would be diluted and that might help some of the stronger ones survive.

In any case, go and take photos of the garden as soon as it gets light. Then take others over the next days as/if the plants die. You might be able to claim on the house/contents insurance (check your policy if the garden is covered). That might help you rebuild the garden with mature plants - which as you will know are pricey!

I was speaking at a conference today, and in the middle of my speech a VERY loud mobile went off in the front row. Only problem was it was MINE! I'd left my handbag on the seat when I got up to speak. I had to stop and go and switch it off because I knew that it would go to voicemail and then keep ringing. Oooops!

It was the consultant's secretary (I didn't answer it obviously, she left it on voicemail) with the quote for the surgery. I'm glad I didn't answer it there and then ( ) because it was more than I hoped, and I might have added fainting to the embarrassment of the phone ringing.

Could all have been worse, what if I had accidently answered it on speakerphone and it was the chemist saying the dilators were ready!!!!   

Emma, Donna and Annie - Great to hear that you all are going "au naturel" this month. I did say in an earlier post that I don't suffer from vaginismus currently, but have been through phases where I was convinced that sex would be too difficult/painful and wouldn't. I think really wanting to ttc got us over it. I don't know if it helps to know this, but although it isn't now painful in a general sort of way, it isn't *always* the most comfortable sensation. And sometimes it is great. I am not saying this to put you off, but to say that I think it is normal for sex to sometimes be a bit iffy for women, depending on the time of the month and everything else that is going on. So if you don't feel that it all went well on one occasion, that might not be something that is just happening to you, it might be something that can happen to anyone. So don't get hung up on the less-than-comfortable times, they will get balanced out by the good times!

I hope that helps!

BTW, I thought that KY was not good for ttc, but I have read that eggwhite can work well. Sounds a bit weird , but if you want to know more....

Polly


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## AnnieR

Hi Everyone

It's Friday - yipee! What a long week it has been too. I went with DH to see Star Wars last night. Never a huge fan of the films, but quite enjoyed it. Saw baby Ella the other day too and had some nice cuddles. Didn't get jealous or envious - just more determined to make my own this month.

What are everyones plans for BH weekend? My DH is working the whole lot so I've got to find ways to amuse myself. We're having a BBQ tomorrow so I can spend the day preparing and on Monday I'm driving all the way up to Rochdale to visit a friend. wish I was going away  

Emma- Have you recovered from yesterday? What a day!!!  I am so sorry about your garden. Polly's idea sounds good though - try washing the weedkiller away. It might be able to salvage it to a certain point so you don't have to start from scratch. Sadly I don't share your passion for doing gardening myself -but I do appreciate a well tended lawn and pretty flowers! My garden will be wrecked after the extension, so I might have to hire you to come and revive it for me!!!! 
Go and make the most of the lovely weather today. Go sit in your garden with a nice glass of wine and a good book - and think of me sat in a dark air conditioned shoe box til 4pm!

Polly - Thanks for your words about sex. It was really timely advice. I've been worrying over the last few days that I'm never going to be able to do it and it'll always be impossible and painful for me to insert. But, I think I tried right after my period when every woman is a bit dry and I wasn't really into it on that occassion! You've given me the confidence now to relax and believe it won't always be like that. Thanks Polly xxx


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## emmadaffodil

Hello everyone,

Hope you are all well! Sorry to rant yesterday. I was having one of those days! I did hose everything very thoroughly as soon as I'd done it, so I'll just have to wait and see now. Kitchen drain sees to have mysteriously unblocked itself this morning too. 
We are going to the MILs for the weekend, so Imay not be able to post much (don't really want her lookimg over my shoulder!).

Polly - I did laugh at your phone story!! I am very interested and slightly encouraged by what you said about sex. I've always wanted to know what it feels like for 'normal' people, if you know what I mean. Not sure about eggwhite though - isn't it really sticky?!

Annie - have a great time in Rochdale! I grew up near there and my parents still live there. 

Have a great weekend!
Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Emma - Have a fab weekend at MILs. Can't believe you're from near Rochadale. Have you still got a lush northern accent? I absolutely love it and could listen to my friend talk for hours.

Hope the garden is still there when you get back!

One question about the egg white - can you get salmonella?!?!?!

Polly - Forgot to say I laughed too about the phone incidence. I think I would have gone incredibly red and hot! Well done though, seems you kept your cool!!!


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## AnnieR

Help! Clomid seems to have done the trick after all - I'm ovulating! I started using the ovulation kit this morning and it detected a surge already!

I don't know if I'm ready for sex yet? I haven't had that much chance to practice. DH is working all weekend too so I only have tonight (when we are hsoting a bbq) and maybe early tomorrow morning if I can entice him before he leaves for the day.

I might have to bow out of operation "synchronized conception" this month. Gutted.


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## Donna Taylor

Hi Everyone,

Annie looks like you are my cycle buddie this month then!!! I had serge this morning!!!!!! Tried last night but both me and DH got all ina tabgle and it just wasnt going to happen, had much better luck today though and managed to get it in WITHOUT lube  Just got so caught up in it we completely forgot.
Didn't manage to get it all the way in but it was nearly there and I am sure it doesn't have to be all the way in to conceive??
We are going to try again tommorrow.

Polly I know exactly what you mean about sew not always being great friends of mine (who have never had vag) say it is soemtimes painfull for them at certain times.

Emma I hope your plants servive after all your hard work. Are your exam results due soon?

Not sure who mentioned Lube, but I was very confused about it to. I read on a web site that Durex play was safe so sent DH to buy it, DH decided to ask pharacist first incase he had any better ideas and the pharmicist said that KY was fine as its water souluable or something.
I think the lube is fine if it doesnt contain spermicides.

Good luck Annie lots of BMS for you and Emma it wont be long for you either once AF stops.
Polly how are things going for you? have you got the dilators yet??

Take care all

Donna xx


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## AnnieR

Morning!

Donna - I am so chuffed I have a cycle buddy this month. I think I am going to drive myself mad. Me & DH did bms last night, but I just don't know if he was in properly or not. I did everything perfectly last night. I really got into it and made sure we spent loads of time fooling around. I did use lube - I tried that Liquid Silk for the first time. I took time inserting DH and whilst we were, you know I had a feel around and as far as I could tell I think it was in. I just don't remember feeling anything. No pain, no nothing. I think I've convinced myself that we didn't do it properly overnight and that I missed my chance to do it naturally. I felt around after and there was wetness where it should be, but now I don't know if that's just the Liquid Silk. I'm hoping we can have another go tonight, but we're meant to be going out and I think I've probably missed our ovulation window. Sorry Donna - I think I might have let the side down.


How did you get on last night?

Emma - Hope you're having a fab weekend at MIL

Polly - how are you doing?


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## Donna Taylor

Annie, Dont dispair I am sure you got on just fine, Luke and I didn't have another go last night as we had MIL and FIL over for dinner.

Not sure how well we have done either.

We tried Friday night but couldn't reall get it in, only managed to get it a little bit in so not sure if the little Merms will have be sqarted in far enough as he wasn't all the way in.
On saturday we tried again and luke was half way in when he stared to come and by the time he had finnished we had nearly got him all the way in, so hoping that will have given us more of a chance. I also made myself come after as I have read that this helps as when I women orgasams it helps suck the sperm past the cervix (sorry if tmi)

What do you all think do you have to be all the way in to conceive?
Think we will try again tonight even though my serge is over might help mighten it??

Really pleased with myself that I didn't use any Lube, hopefully wont need to in future but I am sure it was just a fluke

Hope you are all well

Donna xx


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## AnnieR

Hi Donna - It sounds like you've done more than enough to get the wigglies up there. Chances are your DH was still releasing when he got all the way in. This could totally be it for you Donna!!! I've got everything crossed for you.

I'd heard about women orgasming being of huge benefit too - forgot that last night though!

I've got everything set to try again when DH gets home tonight. I've got his dinner ready and I'll run a bath so it's gives us enough time before we have to go out.

I'm going to pay attention this time though and make sure he is definitely in. I can't have another sleepless night worrying I didn't do it properly!!!

I'm away all day tomorrow, so I'll log on when I get back and let you know how we got on.

Good Luck to you & Luke xxx


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## Donna Taylor

Thank you Annie, I am sure you will be fine to hope all goes well for you tonight, think we will try again to even though I do not have a serge anymore I don't suppose it will hurt.

want to be able to enjoy sex but not at that stage yet.
Dh is going to ring hospital to cancel our appointment in June.

Oh joy another 2ww now........

Have a nice day away tommorrow, talk to you when you get back xx

Donna xx


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## pollyhoping

Annie - just a thought, and maybe you aren't ready, but have you tried being on top? You can go more at your own pace, and you can be much more sure that your DH is in the right place, without danger of upsetting the moment. (I would have to be a bit of a contortionist to "feel around" as you put it without causing Dh to fall out. Sorry to be so graphic   and as I am certainly a lot older and less flexible and a bit overweight, it may be a combination of that and the fact the DH is never totally "in" becuase of our situation that causes it with us. )

Also, a lot of lube could reduce the sensation for you. Great when you want to be sure about "getting it right", but not great for making it fun for you. So if you are sure that DH is in the right place, don't worry about the lack of sensation: you can - and will want to -reduce the amount of lube when you are ready. 

Oh! I can really envy you when you get your confidence about it all. It'll be sooo much fun when you and DH can't stop doing it! 

Emma - I saw a Mr Horwell at the L&D, Mr Lobb is much more on the fertility side I understand, so I was too old to see him!

Donna, I have no idea if in the normal situation if it matters about being all the way in. There are stories about that NOT being a good form of contraception, so you never know   . But you can make this tww go faster by practicing lots and having lots of fun, and then you will be really ready for the next time if there has to be one.

Eggwhite - google: eggwhite and concieving - there are some links. I believe it is good due to being protein, and so sperm like it, and the right consistency. I think there might be something in Taking Control of Your Own Fertility which I will try to look up tomorrow. But I do remember reading that it is good to have it at room temp, rather than straight out of the fridge   and that you should use your hands to separate the white from the yolk rather than the eggshells for hygiene. I can't remember anything specific about salmonella, but I will check in TCOYOF if it says anything. As far as being sticky is concerned, I have never used it, but I don't think it could be worse than KY, which I do find goes sticky-icky after a bit.

Polly

P.S.No phone call yet about the dilators, so I will have to make another phone call to them on Tuesday.


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## AnnieR

Morning Everyone! - Although it's the middle of the night as far as Bank Holidays go!

Just a quick note before I head off North for the day - Tried BMS again last night. I do believe it was a complete success. DH was definitely in there and I knew when I stood up and it all came running back out! Sounds gross but I was chuffed to bits - means it worked!

Fingers crossed now for the next 2 weeks. I'm not feeling particularly confident though - It was only our first go after all.

I'll chat more tonight to you all when I get back. Have a lovely day xxx


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## emmadaffodil

Good morning everyone!

Donna and Annie, you have been busy over the weekend! Now I definately have to manage this sex lark when my turn comes - end of the week I think. Dh and I are going to practice all week to get ready for ovulation time. Donna - I've also read that orgasms help when ttc so I'll have to try that too! I'm sure that dh doesn't have to be all the way in for it to work. My GP said people do get pregnant just from semen spilt at the mouth of the vagina.

My weekend at MILs was pleasant if uneventful. We came back early as dh got called into work today. My plants are still aliove, but I will have to wait and see. I've recovered from the upset now. If they all die it will give me an excuse to go and buy lots of new plants and redesign the garden.

Donna - exam results due in June sometime, but they haven't given a date.

Annie - I don't really have an accent I'm afraid. Actually, I probably sound a little bit northern to a southerner, and it does get much more pronounced on the 'phone or if I'm talking to someone with a strong northern accent. I went to a school where accents weren't allowed and they drummed them out of us! I do like the Rochdale accent (and the fact that everyone there calls you 'love' and 'duck'), but the Oldham one is even better! Haven't been to Rochdale myself for about 15 years though.

Polly  - hello! I'm taking all your advice about sex and eggwhite on board!

Hope you all have a lovely bank holiday. I'm going food shopping and having a lazy day watching Dallas DVDs and reading.

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

Hello everyone

DH and I had another go last night this time he was all the way in although we did use a little lube this time. We used KY but we only used the tiniest amount.
So now fingers crossed for the 2ww, I know it may take a few months and it is only our first try but I am so hoping it is first time lucky.

After have BMS friday, sat and sunday I was a bit achey down below last night much to DH's amusment. Taking things easy today and having a lazy day as DH is working.

I am still in shock that I am actually having sex! a few months ago I had accepted that fact that it would never happen for us, just goes to show doesn't it.

I have read that egg white is good but not sure about using it. pharmacist said that ky was fine so think I'll keep using that I am just being carefull to use the smallest amount.

Annie I think what polly said is right have you tried being on top? I find that postion the best so far as I am complely in control it also means that instead of DH thrusting I can gentle rock at my own pace. Also you are in the perfect position to be able to feel around to confirm that DH is indeed in!!

Feels really strange I am nearly 23 and have just had sex for the first time!!

After we have had sex there is a lot of leakage (sorry tmi) is this normal?

Hope you all have a fab bank holiday

Donna xx


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## pollyhoping

Donna Taylor said:


> Feels really strange I am nearly 23 and have just had sex for the first time!!
> 
> After we have had sex there is a lot of leakage (sorry tmi) is this normal?


Bet you feel on top of the world!!!!

Sorry to say that leakage is quite normal!!!!! Even if you stay lying down for 15-20 mins for the wrigglers, it doesn't stop the mess!

Polly


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## AnnieR

Morning All!!!

I had a lovely day in Rochdale but I am beyond tired this morning. 5 hours of driving in total has really taken it out of me. It was worth it though - just to listen to the accent again!

Donna - Well done on the bms. Leakage is definitely normal and a good sign that the wigglies went in there. That's how I know it worked for me! I led with my legs in the air for ages on Sunday and as soon as I stood up I could feel it all run back out - eeeww!! Everything crossed for you Donna. First time lucky I hope.

Emma - Glad weekend with MIL was alright. Best of luck with bms this week. I'm sure it'll be fine, you'll nail it no problem duck!  

Polly - Thanks v.much for the advice again. I have tried on top but I think I've only managed to get it in once or twice that way. I will certainly practice in that position, but I wanted to go with something more definite during ovulation. DH was very gentle with me when we did bms at the weekend. It is a bit awkward to have a feel around - but I have long arms!!! Hope you have success with obtaining your dilators today.

Anyhoo - best wipe the sleep out of my eyes and crack on with some work. Chat to you all later xxx


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## emmadaffodil

Hello,

Hope you all had a lovely bank holiday. 

Psychosexual copunselling for me this afternoon. 

I started drinking pineapple juice yesterday (see thread on 'ask a nurse' where it seems to have magical effects) but it really doesn't agree with me. Tastes nice though.

Have a great day.
Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

I started drinking pineapple juice last week too!!!! Been drinking it loads since I had a LH surge. Hoping that if I did do bms right over the weekend it'll have done some good!


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## emmadaffodil

Annie - hope the pineapple works for you. I'm not sure whether to stick with it or not. It seems to give me stomach cramps and the runs! Perhaps my stomach will adapt to it in time. I can't touch a live pineapple mind you; it brings my hands out in a rash! What a drama queen.

Psych counselling was really emotionally draining. I've still got a pounding headache, and it finished 2 hours ago. No great insights or lightbulb moments for me today, just confusion. I think she was trying to say that sex gives you a certain closeness and intimacy with a person that you can't get in any other way, and I am not experiencing this. Is this true? Is it something that will only make sense when I have had sex successfully? I feel quite baffled by this. I feel that dh and I are incredibly close (even if we don't agree on everything or spend every hour of the day together) and almost find this suggestion a bit patronising. I would really welcome any insights that anyone has on this. I think that vag sufferers can experience great closeness because we have had to work through such hurdles with our loved ones to do something that other people take for granted.

I'll stop rambling now. Off to take out my frustrations on the weeds at my allotment.

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

Hi Emma -  I cant talk for you obviously but DH and I are very close, because of (like you said) all the vag stuff and the IUI. I feel that we are closer and more connected than other couples I know - and that includes sexually even thoug we weren't having full sex.
However, since acheiving full peneration and even though I am not enjoying it as I do other things we get up to  I have found that we are really close, even though I thought we were really close before! does that make sense.
Since having full sex DH and I have been like teenages, its like falling in love all over again, being in a new relationship kinda of feeling. hope this rambelling makes sense!!

Annie - I drunk pineapple juice and ate fresh pineapple with my 2 previous IUI cycles, I also cut out alchohol and all naughty things this time I am taking a much more relaced feel to it and doing what I want when I want. But don't let me put you off pineapple juice works for loads of people and I hope it works for you.

Hears hoping we have 2 BFP to celerbrate in 2 weeks with 1 more a week later!!!!!!!!

Polly - thanks for anwsweing my question about leakage, It seemed to be coming out for ages!! even when I went to the toilet hours after eewwwwwwwww

Take care 

Donna xx


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## AnnieR

Hi Emma

I'm not sure about the pineapple juice now. I read the link on Ask a Nurse and someone has suggested it might not be good after all - typical!

OK, so let's talk intimacy. I agree with the Counsellor when she says you do  experience closeness more when gettin down! But I don't think you have to have sex to feel it. I would say I feel more intimate with my DH when we're foreplaying or having a snog or a cuddle.

Maybe the Counsellor wasn't trying to suggest you & DH aren't close, maybe she was trying to explore if you allow yourself to let go/enjoy/relax when doing sexual things I can understand why you felt patronised though hun - I'd be pretty pi**ed if I felt someone was questioning my relationship with DH.

What does intimacy mean to you? What thoughts sprung to mind when she said that word to you? I bet if you described it to us we'd all say we feel the same.

I think I can understand why she wants you to spend some thought on this. It's even had me sat here thinking about it!!!

Hope the weeds didn't die a violent death at the hands of your frustration! Look forward to chatting some more with you about this. We'll bash it out together xxx


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## AnnieR

Hi Donna

You must have posted while I was sat here thinking about intimacy! 

This might sound strange but I feel a bit of a fraud saying I'm on a 2ww. I just don't feel like I've done anything to believe in 2 weeks time I could have a BFP. I talk myself out of thinking we did bms properly, even though I made a point of checking he was in and even though I had wigglies running out when I stood up. I'm just not convinced. I feel really weird about it this at the moment. Maybe it just doesn't all seem real. I can't believe I def had sex, that I def had a LH surge and that I managed to co-ordinate it all.

Sorry Donna I'm rambling. I just feel blaaaaahhhh!!!


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## pollyhoping

Annie!!!!!

That was BMS. There isn't any more to it. Stop torturing yourself!!!!  

You have every chance of getting BFP this month, and if not, in the next few months. I'm not being negative about it, just that AFAIK it often takes three months for normal young couples with no fertility issues. 

But there is nothing extra that you have forgotten to do! Just keep doing it!

(Darn it, there is something that I forgot to do - ring about the dilators!! I am in the vicinity on Thursday, so I MUST ring tomorrow.)

Love
Polly


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## AnnieR

Thanks Polly - I have been torturing myself!!! Holy Moly - guess I'm on the 2ww for the first time. Now what!?!?!


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## pollyhoping

Just wait...... . Hope it isn't too bad, have you got anything else planned in the next two weeks that you can do? I think (others may agree or not), i think the first three days and the last three are the worst. The other 8 days are just bad!!! 

Polly


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## AnnieR

I've got fairly quiet couple of weeks planned at the mo. Better start filling my days with activities. I think I'll find the last few days the worst. Looking out for any signs or twinges, which if I'm honest, I've been doing already! I pray all the time that i'll wake up one morning and throw up for no apparant reason, or get up and discover I've developed Pamela Andersons overnight. 

Anyway Polly, make sure you call for your dilators today!!!


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## emmadaffodil

Good morning,

Still feeling confused about yesterday. I wish I could see my counsellor today and thrash it all out with her! I'm going to think about this question of intimacy and come back to you later, Annie, when I've got  bit more time. Suffice to say, I think dh and I are closer now than we've ever been and are now able to talk openly and honestly about sex (whereas a year or more ago I would avoid the issue). What I'm hoping and expecting is that when we actually manage sex that we will also be like teenagers and unable to keep our hands off each other (I am so pleased that that is happening for you Donna  ). I still feel that she was a bit insulting, as if saying that dh and I don't have a proper adult relationship because we struggle with penetration. I know many couple who have lots of sex but that is all they have in common and there is a definate lack of intimacy between them. 

Getting worried about ovulation time now. Dh and I tried to have sex last night but gave up! I tried putting in dilator number 4 first and the b****y thing wouldn't go in, so we gave up. I'm on day 8 so time is running out to crack this thing! I'm hoping that this was the disastrous dress rehearsal for the main event! We are going to try again tonight.

Sorry to ramble,
Have a great day everyone, Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Hi Emma

You seem to be still wound up from counselling yesterday and understandably I hasten to add. I'm wondering now if your Counsellor did a really naff job of explaining what she was getting at yesterday. Are you able to call her and talk to her about it a bit more? I feel really cross that she's made you feel this way. 

Don't worry about you & your DH, there's clearly absolutely no issues with the way you communicate and discuss your experiences. I just wonder if what that woman (I'll think of a better name later!) was getting at was something I am finding really hard to describe over e-mail!!!  I've been thinking about this non stop since your mail yesterday and I'm trying to think of ways to show what she might have meant.

When I think of intimacy with DH I think of things like when we stare into each others eyes for a moment and you feel that spark, or lying in bed after fooling around giggling about nothing and having little kisses. Sounds so lame and i am cringing as I write this, but do you think it's possible she was asking if you do things like that

Also do you think this frustration from yesterday might have made you a bit tense so when you tried bms you were too wound up?

Is this helping in anyway Emma, cause if i'm just making it worse, let me know. I'm the kind of person who needs to get it clear in my own head first before I can answer questions about it!!!

Annie xxx


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## emmadaffodil

Hi Annie,

Your words of wisdom _are_ helping a great deal! I'm still mulling it all over in my mind. How you describe intimacy with your dh is pretty close to how I would describe it (and it sounds absolutely lovely as you describe it, not lame at all). Now I come to give examples from my life and my mind has gone blank! Things like knowing what the other person is thinking before they say it, shared special glances across a crowded room, just being silly together - giggling, tickling etc, and not being able to imagine or wanting to imagine life without that person. Sounds really trite. 
What p****s me off is that she didn't ask if we had intimate moments. She just stated that until I had successful penetration I couldn't experience intimacy or know what it was, and that my body was stopping me from managing penetration because I subconsciously didn't want intimacy with dh! I felt like she was almost (and only just) holding back from saying that my marriage was a sham and that I shouldn't be with him. The more I think about it the more angry I am with her. I'm also angry because I struggled with her in the early sessions but recently felt like we'd make some connection and that she understood me, so I feel kind of betrayed by her. I'm wondering if she is judging me according to her own personal ideas of intimacy and the dynamics of her own relationships.

I can't call her, I'm afraid (she's never given a number or suggested that as an option), and I'm too much of a coward to do so even if I could! You're right, she should have a name - Dr Sex, maybe!

I'm sure that the frustration of yesterday didn't help with bms practice. I think I was trying to prove to myself and everyone else that I could have intimacy as she defines it!

Thank you for your kind words and ideas about this. I'm off to eat now - when I get stressed or angry I get really hungry. Think I need a big bowl of pasta.

Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Well Dr Sex is wrong Emma - you don't need to have full penetration to have intimacy. That's the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. Plus I don't believe you are subconciously holding back on bms because of initmacy issues, women like us just need to learn to relax. 

I used to turn my nose up when people said that. I found it mega patronising and felt like shouting " I AM RELAXING YOU FOOLS!!!! But .... after going to some relaxation clases I totally get it. They taught me more in 4 sessons than any Dr or Counsellor had in months. Cracking the method of letting the muscles go was definitely the winning combo for me. Not saying it'd work for everyone, but I do think they could suggest trying it first!

I can understand why you feel let down by Dr Sex. We put alot of hope and trust with these women and when it feels like they're not getting us - it's more frustrating than anything. It's like if they don't get you, how can they help you make progress and then you feel back at square one.

Grrrr - now I need food. I think we've got some Dairy Milk left, although pasta sounds good 

Annie xxx


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## emmadaffodil

Annie - thank you once again. Like you said, I did feel I'd gone back to square one after yesterday. She made me doubt everything I believed about myself and my relationship with dh, as though it was clear to an outsider that everything was wrong and I was deluding myself and living in some fantasy land. I realise now, after much deliberation, that she is wrong. In the end it really doesn't matter what she thinks about me or my life if I am happy with it. I'm not really seeking her approval.

On the intimacy thing again, surely foreplay, oral sex and (in my case) allowing dh to insert dilators and fingers are just as intimate as penetration? I'm sure that penetration could be pleasurable and fun (one day) and can be very intimate but it can't be the only way. Obviouly it would be quite convenient and considerably less expensive for ttc though!

I have never heard of relaxation classes. Sounds fantastic. I am well aware that I am not a relaxed kind of person. Still haven't done anything about acupuncture either; I keep wimping out of calling (someone recommended one near to where I live).

Hope you enjoyed the chocolate. I'm going to eat yet more pasta this evening and watch the last episode of Desperate Housewives! 

Emma, xx


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## pollyhoping

Emma

Dr Spex is talking crap, or at least she has left you with the impression that she is. Can you possibly have it out with her, even by writing it down for her to read at the beginning of the next session?

You will no doubt feel more intimate with DH when you get used to penetrative sex, or maybe the first time you do it (I don't know how you will feel the first time, and neither does Dr Spex) but that is as likely to be because you have achieved something together than the fact of sex itself.

If I were in your shoes I would want to make the following points:

is it not intimate to take the time to figure out what pleases each other?

Is it intimate to have sex with a stranger after a pick-up in a pub?
Can lesbians never be intimate?
etc etc
I'm sure that others can add to the list, but that is a start.

Years ago, I had a bf who would not do penetrative sex before marriage, ( )) but was ok with anything else. In one sense, I didn't mind, (although it made our relationship a bit ambiguous in a way) because it meant that our lovemaking was focussed on both of us, rather than his needs . But it frustrated me that I couldn't get him to understand that waking up in the same bed and seeing each other all tousled and sleepy was the most intimate it gets, and that if we did do "it", it wasn't really going to be a whole big new thing after all we had been doing, and that he was in danger of being greatly disappointed when he finally gave up his cherry . I didn't marry him, so someone else had to deal with the let-down 

Anyway, I think you need to tell Dr Spex a few things about your experience of intimacy, and find out what she meant. If she was trying to get you to think that you were missing out on something in order to spur you on to ... (what? making more effort?), then maybe she was well-meaning but misguided. Ask her if she ever helps lesbian couples or couples who have sex but don't make love. I bet she does!

BTW, I phoned and reserved the dilators. I only had to phone twice (got cut off the first time) and speak to three people each time and say what I wanted seven times (the last person went to see if they were in stock and forgot what I wanted and had to come back and ask!!!!!!) But I am going to a meeting nearby tomorrow afternoon, and could get them before my meeting. Hopefully I won't then accidently tip my briefcase out all over the meeting table!!!!! 

love Polly


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## Donna Taylor

Emma I do hope you are feeling better, Of course you don't need to be having full penatration to be close to your partner I know of lots of people where sex is the only thing holding there marriage together! I have always said that I would rather not be able to have sex than to end up like that!!
Ignore what she said and I really hope you miss interprated her meaning she is a complete COW if not!!!
Please please do not put to much pressure on yourself to have sex or to use Dilator 4 I know this will sound patranising and I don't mean to sound like that but soemtimes the more you try the more it wont happen. I tried for ages to have sex and it just wouldn't happen. I think the difference for me this time was I knew that I had IUI lined up so it didn't matter either way if that makes sense so it lifted some of the pressure. Take your time and it will happen.
Maybe have a bath and/or a massage before to really relax you?

Annie I am the same I can not belive I am on a 2ww!!!!! It doesn't feel real although like every 2ww I have started imagining I am preg and how I'll tell everyone etc aaaarrrrrggghhh It drives me insane 

Polly Good luck with the diators I hope you get them this time and please be carefull opening you breif case 

Donna xx


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## AnnieR

Evening Ladies!

Donna -   Guess what I've been day dreaming about all day - I've imagined telling my Mum, My In Laws, My Best Friends, My Boss, My Colleagues, My Grandparents, My Brother and the list goes on and on. Still can't bring myself to say I'm on 2ww. Still feel like a big fat fraud. I've been peeing like a fountain today and for a nano second allowed myself to believe it "a sign"  

Polly - Well done for phoning for the dilators. That's the worst part over with. Now you just need to pick them up and start making them your new best friend. I'll bore you too with my theory of trying them in the bath! A nurse at my GP surgery suggested trying my speculum out in there as aparantly you're quite relaxed in there. Worked for me....but Emma had a few issues with slipping 

Emma - Chocolate was goooood. When I'm done here I'm going to get my p.j's on, cleanse, tone, moisturise and jump into bed for Desperate Housewives. I can't wait to find out who kops it tonight!
Get yourself to accupuncture or ask your GP surgery about relaxation classes in your area. Mine were free walk in sessions at a big clinic in town. Was mega embarassing the first session. I was the only one who turned up and the chappie gave me a one on one! I felt the biggest plonker sat with him deep breathing - but it was good stuff. Very powerful techniques they teach you. They used alot of visual something or other. Did I tell you about the relaxtion CD I got. That uses the same concept. Gets you to imagine you're walking on a tropical beach - it's luuurrrvly. I'm a terrible relaxer too, I always have way too much on my mind and often have sleepless nights. This stuff really helped though. It teaches you how to let thoughts enter your mind, but put them to one side til the morning! It's almost like meditation - now there's something you could look into. Fancy chanting on top of a hill in the buddha position?


Tee he he - I'm off to bed. I go a bit mad when I'm deprived of sleep - as you can see    .

G,night Emma, G,Night Donna, G,Night Polly xxxxx


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## emmadaffodil

Hello,

Did a great long ramble this morning and then the server crashed just as I went to post.

Thank you to everyone for your words of wisdom. You all seem to understand far more than Dr Sex/Spex. I'm going to hope that we misunderstood each other and try not to fret over what she said anymore; I think that she might have been having a bad day as she didn't look quite herself.

Polly - I cannot believe what you are having to go through to get the dilators! I hope you get the lovely glass ones. Make sure your briefcase stays firmly locked  
Your idea of writing everything down is a good one. It will help clear things in my mind. I find that when I see her I open my mouth meaning to say one thing and complete drivel comes out. Then as I try to rescue the situation things just get worse and worse. 
Any news on when your op will be?

Annie, Donna - it is so exciting that you are both officially on the 2ww (and scary too I'm sure). I really hope that I can join you in the next few days. I really want it to work out this month for both of you, but I am also worried that I'll be left behind! I am on day 9 so we will start our bms efforts tonight. I'm not using pee sticks this time, just going to try every day. 

I spent an afternoon with my dilators yesterday, working up through the whole range, and am feeling more confident now. I'd got out of practice with having af and staying at MILs. I will be spending quality time with them again later today   

Enjoy the rest of the day,
Emma, xxx


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## AnnieR

Hi Emma

That's happened to me a couple of times, so what I do now is copy the message so I can paste it back in if it crashes.

I hope you'll be able to join me & Donna on the 2ww wait too, but please don't push yourself if you're not ready. I'm glad that you had a successfull afternoon with the dilators, that it very promising! Did you even manage number 4 alright? Best of luck with bms tonight. I'll be thinking of you - but it a good way, not the creepy way  

I'm glad ours is over with cause I want DH far away from me this afternoon. He can be as helpful as a chocolate teapot sometimes. I was hoping we could book our holiday to Cuba today but he's decided to tell me this afternoon that he can't have that time off work. That means we can only go later in the year. I was really hoping to have a holiday before starting IUI. I'm so mad I'm tucking into a pack of hob nobs    and trying desperately hard not to give in to the tears. I'm feeling a bit emotional.

Speak to you a bit later. The sugar should have kicked in by then x


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## emmadaffodil

Annie - good tip about copying messages.

Sorry to hear you are feeling emotional. Why not have a good cry and get it out of your system? Obviously, if you're at work hobnobs may be the better option. Can't remember the last time I had a hobnob. Perhaps feeling emotional is a good sign - 2ww hormones?
When are you planning on starting IUI (if 2ww doesn't give BFP this time)? Let's hope you won't need to. Dh and I decided at the weekend that we definately will do IUI if bms/syringe action doesn't work out, probably in July/August; that will give me time to try naturally for 3 months. I've just started to look at clinics and can't decide which. Initially when I looked at all this last year I was choosing ones who said they had some experience of treating vag sufferers, but now I can widen the field. I can't get over how low the succes rates are though. The ones I've looked at say 12% success per cycle - seems v.low to me. How does anyone ever manage to get pg?

Cuba sounds exciting! We are planning to go to France in Sept/Oct with the MIL - kind of been cajoled into it. Dh is hoping that I will be pg so I can do all the driving and he can enjoy the wine.

I was too tired to watch Desperate Housewives last night. I videoed it, but it'll have to wait for a while. I'm desperately trying to avoid finding out what happened.

Hope you feel better soon.

Donna, Polly, everyone else - hello!

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

Polly how did it go to today? do you have your dilators?

Annie, I am beginning to start noticing ''signs'' as well I really hate it.why do preg signs have to be exactly the same as AF signs?!

Emma, Glad you are feeling better and good luck for BMS have everything crossed for you. Its good you made a decision about IUI but I am really hoping you wont need it.

Take care all

Donna xx


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## AnnieR

Evening All

I've been on the internet and phone for 2 hours now looking at holidays. I am loosing the will to live. Cuba is def out. Now looking at Turkey. Hardly the same but as that looks like the only holiday I can have this summer I'm willing to put up and shut up.  

Don't think emotions are signs of a BFP. Yeah right, cause I'm that lucky. Just think they're the result of a difficult husband who can only leave the UK on 2 days this year. He is apologising profusely though and agreed to pay for somewhere a bit nice.

Emma -If I don't get a BFP I'll book in for the tube test and start IUI straight away. I watched one episode of DHW last night, but couldn't stay awake for the very last one. Got the lowdown at work today though. Gutted I missed it. It sounds like a corker.Let me know if you want the goss!!!!

Donna - Any signs for you yet. I caught myself again over analysing lower back pain. but then gave myself a stern talking to -as if it would be signs. I'd be like 5 days pregnant!?!?! and I just don't see it working first time for me. Are you going to test on your due date or see if it goes over?

Polly - Did you get the dilators? Have you given them a test drive?

Anyhoo - back to holiday searching for me. Hope you're all having a better evening than me. Sorry if I seem grumpy tonight. I must need more hobnobs.


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## pollyhoping

Hi everybody.

yes I got them. There's me thinking that I had done it all over the phone, and that there would be a discreet little package waiting on shelf with my name on it. NOT!

As it turned out, when I spoke to DH during the day, we decided that as he had to come through London in the afternoon, that he would meet me after my meeting. He did offer to go to the chemist for me, but I was so convinced that it would all be ok. Then I realised that I didn't have time to go before my meeting, so we met up and went afterwards.

Got served by a spotty youth. I told him that I was here to pick up a package. he wanted to know what was in it. I said it was a package on the reserve shelf with my name on it. He got a bit shirty and asked was it a large or small item. I just said it was a package with my name on it.   Eventually he went off, and then came back and asked again what it was as he couldn't find it. I gave him my name again, and thanked every spiritual supreme being that DH was there with me. While he was gone again, I said to DH that I was pretty sure that he was going come back and do a show and tell in front of the whole shop. I wasn't wrong,   but saved by the fact that he came back with a large bedpan!!!!  .

At that point the lady over whom I had blubbed the last time came to the counter with another customer, so I quickly read her name badge and told spotty youth that I would wait for her to serve me. He wasn't impressed. Again she was great, heard and understood my mutter (a male customer was standing behind me by now), got the items without any fuss, and it was fine. 

I can't believe that everyone has to go through this, nor that they couldn't have been more sensitive, it has been an ordeal.

They are glass ones, Emma, but not the heavy ones that I had before. They are hollow and there is a little dimple in the side which means that you can wedge your finger inside so I don't need a handle or anything. They are a little thinner than I expected, so I hope they are robust!!!  

I haven't given them a test drive yet, Annie, I suppose I will, although they are really needed for after the surgery, but it might be an idea to check them out beforehand so that I get the feel (?) of them without feeling squeamish about the surgery. Emma, no date yet for the op, I am getting a bit cheesed off at the surgeon's secretary, who seems very inefficient. I want to go in two weeks today, so I think I will just ring up tomorrow and tell her that. Hopefully they will still have space. 

Emma, I just wanted to say that I hope I didn't sound too dictatorial about dealing with Dr Spex, I just felt a bit indignant for you. I have been thinking about intimacy today some more, and I can only get more and more indignant about the idea that penetrative sex is in itself intimate. It is ONLY intimate because of all the rest of the stuff that is intimate that goes on around it. It is difficult to fool around with each other without being intimate - well, you just wouldn't do it if you couldn't be bothered with the other person, but it is perfectly possible to do the penetrative thing without any particular feeling, or with unintimate feelings. I hope you don't mind, but I told DH what happened, and his reaction was complete shock. He is a qualified counsellor, although doesn't practice, but he said that was a totally unhelpful and outrageous thing to have said, and completely against any training. She might have had every good intention, but I think that you need to clear the air about this with her (here I go being dictatorial again   !) in order to move on with her, or move to another counsellor.

Hope you find a nice holiday soon, Annie!

Love Polly


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## emmadaffodil

Good morning everyone,

Polly - I didn't think you were being dictatorial at all! I found what you said really helpful indeed and thought-provoking. Plus it makes me feel heaps better to have people getting indignant on my behalf - it makes me feel that it is her rather than me who is way off the mark. I don't mind you telling dh at all, by the way.
Glad you've finally got the dilators. They're not so thin that they'll shatter are they?!

Annie - sorry about your holiday plans. Why not go to Cuba without dh?! i have now watched all episodes of DHW. I won't spoil the ending for you! New series early next year.

Donna - hello! Hope you are OK. I'm keeping everything crossed that your symtoms are significant.

Well dh and I actually managed bms last night. He was about 75% inside and definately deposited the goods in the right place.   It didn't hurt and didn't really feel anything. He was desperately trying not to move too much so that he wouldn't hurt me (and so that it wouldn't come out again like last time) and I was concentrating  on keeping it inside. Not an erotic or exciting experience, more a functional one. We both agree that it will take a few goes before we feel comfortable and know exactly what we're doing, and then we can relax and enjoy it. I didn't use lube, although I had warmed up for the main event by using dilators and by dh inserting his fingers. We'll have another go tonight.

Have a great day everyone,
Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Morning All!!!

Feeling alot better about the holiday today. We appear to have narrowed it down to 2 destinations (Zante & Turkey) and 4 possible hotels. Told DH's parents to just pick one as I no longer care and I will book it!!!

I have to say I am feeling rather peculiar today. I noticed a strange cramp like pain last night down there, but once again just rolled over and went kippy snooze. This morning it feels like the oddest sensation. Sort of warm and a dull ache. I keep running to the loo cause I think I might be bleeding. It's making me feel a bit ill?!? Having a weird moment I think. Could be the Clomid. It does evil things to a woman

Anyhoo

Emma - Many many congrats on bms last night. Can't wait for you to hop on board the 2ww ride and experience the madness   I think you & DH are right in that it'll take a bit of practice before you can really start enjoying it, that's how I feel too! It was a bit "getting the job done" 
Apparantly DHW is being repeated on Wednesday, so I'm staying awake no matter what this time. 
Oh - and yes i did consider packing my bags and going to Cuba without DH. He redeemed himself last night though when he started talking anninversary pressies to me. I'm tempted to go rummaging to see what he's got me so I have some idea of what to get him!!!

Polly - Well done on collecting the dilators. Sorry you had a bit of a nightmare experience again. I'm hoping that's the last time you'll have to do anything like that. Might be worth giving them a go before the op - couldn't do any harm to try. I think assertiveness with the Secretary is the way to go. Don't ask her for an appointment, tell her!!!!

Donna - How are you doing? Any magic signs or symptoms yet?


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## emmadaffodil

Annie - glad you are happier about the holiday. Are you going with the in-laws? 
Are you still taking the clomid? Can't begin to guess what your strange sensations mean - let's hope it is a good omen. What day of the 2ww are you on now?

When is your anniversary, and how many years? Mine is on the 21st (I think - I always forget  ) and it'll be 8 years. We don't normally do anything special, but this year I think we should having been through so much together. Must get my thinking cap on. 

I am so hungry again today. I think a cheese omelette is in order.

Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

I think I'm on day 7 of the 2ww, I'm not sure. Could be 6. Let's just call it half way!

Yep we're off on hols with the Out Laws. I don't mind too much, they're good company. They'd never been abroad before until I invited them to Cyprus for a week with us. Ever since they sort of stand on the side lines with puppy dog eyes waiting for us to organise a holiday and invite them along. Think they were a bit gutted when we went to the Maldives in March - on our own!

Not taking Clomid right now. You only have to take it the first 5 days of your cycle. I've got enough left to do it again next month and I might well just give it another go.

Its our anniversary on the 9th and it'll be 4 years married. Our wedding seems like forever ago now. I asked DH to get my dress down out of the loft so I can remember what it was like!!! We do always celebrate special anniversaries, like the Maldives was to celebrate being together 10 years. We're going out for dinner on Thursday night to a lovely restaurant just out of town. We've not been there before so I'm really looking forward to it


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## emmadaffodil

Hello again,

It is pouring with rain here. I can't decide what to cook this evening so have come on here instead. Somehow salad doesn't seem so appealing now the day has turned cold and wet.

A special anniversary dinner sounds lovely Annie. 

Is anyone doing anything exciting this weekend (to take your mind off 2ww Donna and Annie  ). I have decided to buy a dress. Very radical for me as I am a jeans and t-shirt person. Don't know where to begin with it but I am quite determined. Might go to Cambridge in pursuit of this item. I always have a quest for the perfect X (bag, earrings, shoes etc) going on at any particular time. 

Have a great weekend,
Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

Hi everyone,

Polly - glad you finally got the dilators atleast you wont have to go through that experience again! Really hope they give you a date for your op soon.

Emma - congtas on BMS!!!!! I knoe wexactly what you mean about not enjoying it and it being somethid you have to do. Last weekend was like a brothel in my house.
I would have a bath alone to relax me then when I was out the bath and felt ready I would call DH up to join me there was no romance in it at all, although I did where some nice sexy underwear as that seems to help.hoping if we try some more I can enjoy it.

Annie - how are you feeling now? I have had some mild period like pains but seeing as this is 3rd time round for me I am trying to not get into the same state I did with my other 2ww, but that is so much easier said than done.

Hope you all have a nice weeked, I am hoping for a lazy one

Donna xx


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## pollyhoping

Emma - well done!! I'm really happy for you, it's fantastic news.


emmadaffodil said:


> Glad you've finally got the dilators. They're not so thin that they'll shatter are they?!


Hey, I hope not. On the other hand, if they do shatter at the wrong time, maybe I won't have to go for the surgery (ooo oowww!) Sorry, being gross!

Didn't ring the secretary today, as I was interviewing most of the day and couldn't get a private minute. Will do it Monday morning. I am trying to do it around this new member of staff starting, and still have a holiday before the school hols start (other people's kids are not my idea of fun, I'm afraid), so I had hoped to make a decision today. In the end, I am second-interviewing next week, so I still don't know when that will be.

Donna and Annie, I hope that you are both taking it easy with the tww, and Annie, I hope that you get your hols sorted out soon, and have a great one.

Have a good weekend everyone

Polly


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## AnnieR

Greetings One & All this lovely Saturday morning!

I've just had a lovely lie in. It was soooo nice to sleep in after 7am. Went out for dinner with a very good friend last night and had some lurvly Italian food and a nice amount of red wine - which I'm sure will help my egg hang around if it's in there


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## AnnieR

Hey - I hadn't finished!!! Anyway where was I... oh yeah

Polly - You sound like you have a really busy job. What do you do? Do try and get a hol soon, sounds like you could do with a break and it'd be nice before your surgery.

Emma -  Any luck with the dress yet? We booked our holiday yesterday. I'm off to Zante in August - yipeee!!! And what does that mean - SHOPPING!!! I need new bikini's, flip flops, some good books,evening dresses. Ooh I can't wait and the Out Laws are ecstatic. I'm dragging DH into town tomorrow to melt his ATM card. Just chilling at home today. Going to do give the house a big spring clean and watch a movie this arvo. Bridget Jones 2 is looking like Saturday Movie this week for me.

Donna - I'm feeling totally fine now. It was ever so odd yesterday. I felt like crap and had this dull ache all morning. It had gone by lunch time and hasn't come back since. I don't think it was anything. I have been feeling really stoppy though, but that could easily be the Clomid. It makes you a tadge bit hormonal. I really don't think we've got pg this time. I guess it's alot to expect on the first time. Happy to try again though now I've semi mastered bms.

Hope you're all having a fab weekend xxx


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## emmadaffodil

Good afternoon everyone,

Hope you're all having a lovely Saturday. Managed BMS again this morning and dh was all the way inside this time  Yet again functional rather than exciting. Also dh ejaculated really soon after he was inside. Not sure what this means. Not a problem for BMS, but a bit of an anti-climax. I was left thinking 'was that it?'. Loads seemed to leak out a few minutes later too; I hope some stayed in the right place. Poor dh has done something to his shoulder and can barely move, which is not ideal for sex. We both agreed that after this bms period is over we will focus on relaxing and enjoying sex. I think that I am ovulating today (day 12) as there is much CM (sorry if TMI), so that is something.

Dress shopping tomorrow I think. Went shopping locally today but only bought a saucepan and some books.

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

Emma you are having the exact sa,e feelimgs and esperiences that I had with BMS. I am so glad in a nice way that you are feeling the same.

I to had a lot of leakage after but Polly assured me that was quite normal (yuk!)
I found BMS extreamly functional I we are to planning on trying to make it more enjoyable.

The first time we had bms DH ejaculated when he was only just in! second time he was half way in but by the time he had finnished I think he was almost all the way in. the third time we tired he was all the way in.
I think the problem is (fir me anyway) is that I need lots and lots of foreplay before we even think about penetration, this obvioulsy excites DH meaning he comes a bit quicker than I'd like but at the moment that is just fine.
Things will get better with more practice as I'll be more relaxed I am sure.

So your now joining us on 2ww then??
yippeeeeeeeeeeeee we are all on 2ww and a few months ago we werent able to have sex!

You gals have helped more than any councellor or doc could and for that I really want to thank you  

Hope you are all having a fab weekend, I may try sex again this weekend but I'll see after doing it 3 times last weekend not sure I feel like it so we'll c

Take care 

Donna xx

p.s Annie - is 2ww driving you completely nuts?? I ma trying to remain calm and not stress over it to much but I always find last week the worst and its fast approaching


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## AnnieR

Hi Everyone

Emma -    and well done on the bms front. Welcome to the 2ww - it sucks, but can you believe we're all on it together and can try and get through it with each other. I feel incredibly lucky to have you, Donna, Sarah & Polly. 

I am quite sure that the wigglies got where they needed to be. Sorry it's still a bit functional, but now you've done enough for the conception side of things you can keep practicing the enjoyment part!

Well, hopefully one of us 3 will get a BFP this month. I've got everything crossed 

Donna - I am amazingly calm at the moment. I've had a few small lapses into madness but on the whole I think I'm doing very well. No sleepless nights wondering, no running up the stairs to see if my boobs bounce, not even waking up and waiting to see if I feel sick!!!! 
I think it's because I still can't believe it could happen with out medical intervention. I guess we should know this time next week 

Dear Lord - let one of us get a BFP this month!!!!


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## Donna Taylor

yep this time next week it is!!! although not sure if I am going to test this time or wait to see if AF arrives - not sure??
Trying to make this completley different to all the other times we have tried, I said before that this was my 3rd 2ww well don't know where I got that from as this is actualy about my 15th or 16th 2ww!!!!!! so hoping that this one is 'the one'

Statistcally shouldn't 1 of us fall pregnant? isn't it 1in3 or am I making that up?
but sorry to say girls in my experience conception never happens as the stats say but fingers crossed it will be one of us   

How are you polly?

planning anymore BMS Emma?

Donna xx


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## Donna Taylor

Happy Sunday to you all,

Its very queit on here today you are all obviously busy doing fun things over the weekend (well I hope you are)

Just spent £46 in halfords on new leads and spark plugs for the car  how I could have spent £46 never mind.
Annie, found myself walking around halfords pricing up baby car seats!!! this is how the 2ww gets inside your head!

Emma, how are you doing? thought of you today I was planting some tomatoe plants (i'n not green fingered) I'll see how I get on.
hows the BMS going have you tried anymore?

Polly, everything ok haven't heard form you in a while.

Take care all

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil

Hello everyone,

Hope you are all having a lovely Sunday. No BMS yesterday evening, but we are going to have another go later today (and perhaps tomorrow too) just to make sure we've covered the right dates. I guess I am on the 2ww too, although I'm trying not to think about it. I definately won't be testing but will wait for af in due course. I can't believe that we all managed it at around the same time. As you said Donna, I couldn't have done it without the support and encouragement of the rest of you; I can't begin to tell you how much it has meant to me.

Donna - leads and spark plugs don't sound very exciting. Are you going to fit them yourself?! I don't allow myself to look at baby seats, pushchairs, even babies at the moment. Good luck with the tomatoes - they're not the easiest thing in the world to grow (mine all died of blight last year). 

Annie - hope shopping was fun. Did you get lots of holiday stuff? When are you going away? I went shopping this morning but didn't get a dress (no surprise). Managed a pair of shoes though. Made a strategic error by going to Bicester Outlet Village instead of Cambridge. dh reckons I'll find the perfect dress in late September, the day before the first frosts happen

Polly - hope everything is OK. Have you tried the dilators?

Take care everyone, Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor

The plugs etc are fairly easy to replace so got DH to do it for me this afternoon.
My brother used to grow tomatoes when we were kids so I am hoping I'll get the hang of it but I seem to kill everything I try to grow, I am on my 3rd aloe vera plant and they are really hard to kill!!!!
I try not to allow myself to look at baby things but sometimes find myself looking at them when I haven't made a concious decision to do so?! makes me sound like a nutter doesn't it 

Beginning to get into the angry stage of 2ww, I am now feeling that I am not pregnant so feel angry that it will never happen for us, don't worry though in a day or 2 I'll be thinking I am pregnant - thats what 2ww does to me!!!

Good luck for BMS emma but I am sure you will be fine.

Love to all

Donna xx


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## AnnieR

Morning Everyone.

Sorry I wasn't around yesterday. We were out and about all day. 

I've woke up this morning and it feels like AF is coming. I've got that dull ache that will inevitably progress into fully fledged cramps. I am feeling really mad. I guess I was hoping it would be a first time miracle and that I wouldn't have to do IUI. It just feels like such a kick in the teeth after the bms success.

I'm totally gutted


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## emmadaffodil

Here goes, hopefully 3rd time lucky (internet gremlins stopped play earlier today).

Annie - I'm so sorry that you are having such a horrible day and think af is on its way. It must feel devastating. Don't give up hope until af arrives though. There are countless posts of FF saying early pg symtoms are similar to af symptoms (I can't wait to find out if that realy is the case).   I'm thinking of you.

Donna - sorry that you are going through 2ww hell too. I think we all deserve some success this month more than ever after all we have achieved with bms etc.
Remember to give your tomatoes lots of feed each week once the flowers appear. You'll get bigger and better fruit that way, and don't let the soil dry out (irregular watering causes the fruit to split). Sorry, that sounds really bossy! Are they in the ground or in a pot?

Polly - hope you are OK. Did you get your op date sorted out?

In the end dh and I didn't manage bms yesterday. He was in too much pain with his shoulder (but refuses to see a doctor of course). So we've only had 2 attempts. Might try this evening although I think ovulation has passed, judging by lack of CM now.

Take care everyone,
Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Thanks Emma. I know it's not over til the river runs red, but after all these years of hoping it might not mean AF each month, you can't help but think/know that familiar feeling means one thing.

I went and saw a friend this morning for a bit of a pep talk and we were discussing the vag issue and she happened to mention that our other friend simply doesn't understand it and can't accept why if I wanted a baby so badly that I wouldn't just get to the hospital and get the necessary tests done and get on with IUI.

It's made me feel all sorts of emotions about that now. Do people think I'm being silly? Are the exasperated with my woes about ttc thinking all it needs is a simple procedure and problem solved? It's made me feel a bit of an outcast again and a bit lonely. It's really hard to explain.

It's not very often I get down days, but today I feel like I've hit a new low.


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## emmadaffodil

Oh poor, poor Annie. I'm so sorry that you are having such a horrible day. Glad you decided to come on here and let it all out.

Forgive me if I'm speaking out of turn (and it is only my opinion) but I think that your other friend (the one who doesn't understand things) is being completely insensitive about all this. She should appreciate the great bravery and couarge you have shown in realising that you weren't having penetrative sex after all and in facing the issues you have/had with inserting things (speculums etc). In a short space of time you have been able to insert speculums and have 'proper' sex, and that is an incredible achievement. It takes strength and determination to do that. 

Surely she, or anyone, would agree that it is better in the long term if you are able to deal with the vag and have sex and bms, rather than IUI? Also, IUI isn't that simple; just look at the hell that people without vag go through when having it, as seen by all the anguished posts on FF. I read a few days ago that the average success rate for a cycle of IUI is only 12%; that makes a lot of disappointed people out there who are pinning their hopes and dreams on that treatment.

Is this friend one of the ones who has had a baby recently or is pg? For those lucky people who get pg on the first few months of trying it perhaps is difficult to understand what you are going through. I sometimes think I'll swing for the next person who tells me that they only had to sit on the same chair as their beloved to get pg (both SIL and MIL amongst others have said this to me)!

I know what you mean about feeling like an outcast. I felt like the world's biggest freak (and still do some days) because of the vag, especially before it was diagnosed and before I found you and Donna and everyone else here. You are incredibly brave in telling people about the vag and ttc problems, and I really admire you so much for doing that. I haven't told anyone (outside doctors) about either, and feel like my life is effectively a lie because the things that matter most to me at the moment (ttc and sex) and dominate my thoughts are hidden from anyone else. 

Is it worth trying to explain again to your friends how you feel and how upset this has made you? In your posts you sound like you have an incredible number of close friends and it would be great if they were there for you when you need them. I often feel a bit of a billy-no-mates when I read your posts because I just don't have that kind of social circle; all my friends keep moving abroad.

Did the friend you were talking to undertand how you felt and make you feel any better?

Sorry, I'm rambling. Just wanted you to know that you are not being silly or unreasonable. Starting to feel really angry and upset on your behalf now...
Come back and let it all out on FF.


Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Oh lord - I'm sat here with tears streaming wondering what the heck I would do without you guys. I feel so lucky and somehow telling you that on here never seems to be enough. D,you know what though Emma - yes I do have a good size circle of close friends - but I couldn't keep going without people like you, and Donna, and Sarah & Polly. I would never have conquered bms without you or used tampons this month without you, and certainly never have dreamed of inserting a speculum. That all happened in only 4 months of being supported by you. My close friends couldn't get me to do that in over 2 years.In case I don't say it enough or sound sincere - from the very depths of my soul - THANK - YOU!

You are absolutely not speaking out of term, you're right my friend is insensitive of issues like this. She's very black and white about things. Yes, she'll congratulate me on these achievements, but it seems that secretly she just doesn't get it. She has never ever said anything less than encouraging to my face, which somehow makes this all worse. I thought I had her full support and maybe I don't?

Would you believe that the friends with children are more supportive than the friends who are ttc or do not have children!? The friend who "doesn't get it" is ttc and I wonder if on some level she feels better about herself if I'm not in the running to beat her to it. She tends to talk to me alot about how desperate she's feeling and how it'll never happen for her and so on and so on. She's only been ttc for 5 minutes!!!

Also to confess - my friends know about my issues with inserting things but they don't know about the bms thing. That's something I just cannot share and that's something I only feel comfortable talking to about with you guys.

I can understand how lonely you might feel sometimes with all your friends being abroad, but just remember that I'm here for you all day everyday. I know it's not the same as having someone there in the physical sense, but you've got me there for you for this element of your life xxxx

I'm glad you got angry for me, because now I'm not feeling sorry for myself - now I'm mad. Now I'm more determined than ever to crack this. As soon as AF is done I am getting in for that smear and tube test and IUI will work for me and if not then the natural way it'll be instead. Aaaaagghhh! 

Thank- You so much - I am feeling a whole lot better.


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## Donna Taylor

Evening all.  (god sound like a police women )

What an emotional day it has ben on here, I complelly agrre and feel everything you both have said.
Annie, A close friend of mine (who is now preg) didn't truely understand although she as always been very supportive I think it is hard to really understand how it effects you. vag and ttc conceive are not just physical things they are more physcological and I think that is the bit people do not fully understand.
Take it from me and please tell your friend IUI is by no means easy it will be 1 of the hardest things you ever have to do phsically, emotionally, physcologically it drains everythign out of you it is really hard! and as Emma said you only have a 12% chance of it working - its no picnic.
I am so sorry you friend upset you especailly when you were feeling down anyway, I hope you are feeling better now.

I have to had a dull ache since friday! feeling a bit emotional today to so I am sure AF is on her way but as emma pointed out the signs/syptoms are exactly the same so who knows. Guess I'll find out on Sunday.
Keep telling myself I wont be bothered if it hasn't worked because we'll get to try again and although its not enjoyable yet it is far less intusive than IUI but deep down I will be deverstated at another BFN

Changing the subject, my cat has come in from outside and is now trying to yak up a fur ball on the kitch floor - WHY COULDN'T SHE HAVE DONE IT OUTSIDE?

Emma, my tomatoes are in a grow bag I am watering them every day and as a secret weapon I am getting DH to wee on them every morning! (yuk I know but only on the soil not all over the plant! it makes them grow bigger and jucier!)

Polly -  hope your ok?

Donna xx


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## pollyhoping

Annie - have a big hug!!

I think it is VERY difficult for people who just get on with sex to imagine why it is so hard. I know that you won't think that I am being unsupportive if I say that it isn't that hard at all, unless you just can't do it. When DH & I started having sex again, I couldn't really understand why I could/would not for so long.

I do remember saying during that time that I had spent most of my adult life hiding the fact I had sex from my parents and now found myself in the situation of hiding the fact that I wasn't!! (Strict parents when I was younger and then nosy ones when I was older and single) (same parents though!)

Maybe it's a bit like swimming, it seems like an impossible task when you can't do it, but when you find out how to do it, you realise that it is a question of believing that you can swim more than anything else - and that works. So don't be too hard on your friends for not really understanding, and thinking that if you wanted it bad enough, you would just get on with it - that's probably how it looks from the other side. But that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be sympathetic, even without empathy, sympathy is within the reach of most people. 

Hope that the above reads OK, as I don't want to upset anyone.

Although I am a bit of an interloper here, in that I have a different problem, I do want to say that I have really valued being made welcome and your collective interest and support. I have felt ashamed and freaky with my issue on and off for 30 years, and have never known anyone else to have this problem. (In terms of frequency, it is one of two things that turn up in about 0.1% of the population, and most of those are the other thing) It is possible that it was a result of medication taken by my mother when she was pg with me, but she doesn't care to find out. I can understand that, and although sometimes I would like to know if there is a reason, I don't want my mother to feel bad about it. I belong to another ttc group, and haven't even been able to say on there what the issue is with me (any other people who read both, hi!). I felt that I could describe it here and be open because you are all so honest about what is going on in your lives. And it has done me an awful lot of good! I think that the fact that it is so difficult to explain in a simple sentence is part of the shame of it all. 

I KNOW intellectually that I shouldn't feel ashamed, and if I had some deformity of a hand or a leg, I probably wouldn't feel that way, but the fact is that I do and always have. It's great to have a place where I don't feel like that. Thanks everyone!!!!! 

Annie - just thought, your friends who have children probably have more experience of "going off" sex than the more energetic childfree and/or ttc. So I guess it makes sense that they are more understanding!!!

Love to all

Polly


----------



## pollyhoping

Oh, almost forgot, I scheduled my surgery for 16th June. Will probably be in for 2 days.

Polly


----------



## AnnieR

Morning Ladies

Thank-You so much for your support yesterday. I am feeling slightly more positive today and more ready to deal with AF when she arrives this week. I'm going to focus my energy back to Plan A of IUI which is what I had straight in my head before I went and conquered bms! 

So it'll be tampons again this week/weekend, then the smear, then the dreaded tube test. I've set myself the target of getting this all done before my holiday so when I get back I'm ready to start treatment. That gives me 9 weeks. 

Polly - Excellent news that your surgery is booked.  I can't believe they organised it so quickly for you.  I am wishing you all the very best with it and will keep everything crossed for a 100% success. I loved the swimming/sex analagy. I can totally understand what you're saying there and I think you're right. I'm sure in a few more months myself, Emma & Donna will be "swimming" like fish.

Donna - Firstly - eewww with the cat fur ball!!! Things like that turn my stomach! There's no way I could a)witness it & b) deal with the clean up! What would I be like with a pooey nappy!!!!
I'm feeling like I should climb aboard the tomato growing boat. Sounds like fun! I'd probably only manage cherry sized ones though! Any more signs or symptoms? I've still got that distant feeling of AF pains coming. I hate this build up. I wish I was one of those women that just come on when they're going to. I have about 4-5 days of mild cramps and backache  - but bouncy boobs which I love!

Emma - Good morning! Are you going to be taking advantage of the gorgeous weather we find ourselves with today!?!?!


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## emmadaffodil

Good morning!

Annie - glad you're feeling a bit happier today. Your post yesterday was so sweet it made me cry. I feel so lucky to have found you guys. I'm glad you have a plan of action for the future.

Polly  - glad you've sorted out the surgery. I love your swimming/sex analogy, but it made me laugh - I never learnt to swim or ride a bicycle, or any of those normal things (told you I was a freak)! Maybe I should move onto those once I've well and truly cracked sex.

Donna - are you serious about dh and the tomatoes?   I hope your garden is more private than mine. Growbags are good - less chance of soil-borne diseases. What a yucky cat! Has she recovered now from her illness. One of my dogs once ate a frog and later regurgitated it the sofa. After some of the disgusting things they do the thought of nappies doesn't really phase me.

I am off to my allotment to go lots of digging and plant out my french beans. It is a beautiful sunny day here.

Take care everyone,
Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Hi Everyone

Sad news today from me - my friend who announced her pregnancy recently has miscarried. I'm really sad about it. She's my oldest friend and was the first one of the 3 of us who went to school together to crack it. I was looking forward to her having a baby as she's like a sister to me and it would have been another special little person in my life. 

She fell pregnant on the first try so I'm hoping it's a sign that she won't have any trouble in the future. She seems very positive about it at the moment and keen to pick herself up and start again.

This week has started off so poorly. I think it's safest if I spend the rest of it in bed!


----------



## emmadaffodil

Annie - what sad news. It must be such a devastating thing to go through.

Emma, xx


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## pollyhoping

That is sad news Annie. It's a tough thing to go through.

Polly


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## Donna Taylor

Annie, firstly I am so sorry to hear about your friends m/c I am sure you will be a great support to her and as you said I hope when the time is right she has no trouble at all conceiving. big hugs to you both.
Secondly, well done  to you for having a plan I am sure smear and tube test will go fine and your be jumping aboard the IUI rollercoaster in no time.

Polly, great news about op, are you getting nervous about it? you must be excited though to? 
oh and polly no problem about making you feel welcome you are so knowledgable we should be thanking you for joining us!

Emma, sorry wasn't joking and DH and the tomatoe plants! our graden is quite private and he is up at 6 so does it then

Today I am feeling very emtional, I had a reallt tough day with the kids at the nursery and when they wouldn't listen found myself close to tears - which isn't like me I usually have much more patiants and def don't cry!
I am getting tired, grumpy and eating like a horse all of which apart form the later are signs that AF is truely on her way.
The annoying thing to is they could be preg signs.
I want this so badly, this is the 15th time I am praying AF wont come and Iam not sure how much more I can go through I hate feeling like this every month  

anyway enough moaning from me, chin up eh!
off to eat a wosit sandwich, eat some choc and curl up infront of the tv

night night

Donna xxx


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## Candy

New home ladies, good luck


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## Candy

Fingers crossed for you Donna  

New home this way ladies --> http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,31091.new.html#new


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## pollyhoping

"_polly no problem about making you feel welcome you are so knowledgable we should be thanking you for joining us!_"

hee hee Donna - Yeah! that's me, the Queen of Sex (eeuuww, that sounds like a card in a phone box! )

(and you are all princesses, and will be overtaking me v soon, not such a hard act to follow)

Actually I AM the Queen of TTC, just purely because I have been at it so long. But as it was all in vain, hopefully things might change after 16th June.

What's a "wosit" sandwich? A mistype or some delicious new scrummy caloriefree filling? (Hoping it is the latter and that you can get it in Waitrose...)

Could you all just say what date you are all going to test on, as we have started a new thread here? I am SOOOO determined that one (at least) of you is going to get a BFP. I hope that you are all passing the 2ww "practicing" to while away the time.  .

Take care

Love
Polly


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## emmadaffodil

Morning everyone,

Annie - how are you, and your friend, today. Sorry if the post yesterday was brief. An m/c is so awful I just don't know what to say.

Donna - poor you! Let's hope that these are good signs. 
Can't get over the tomato thing. Mine are at my allotment, so conventional feeding/watering only for us.
I am also intrigued by the wosit sandwich - not one filled with wotsits (crisps that leave the roof of your mouth orange - used to love them as a child) surely?!

Polly - I am not going to test as such, just wait for af to appear. It is due on the 20th. I'm trying not to even think of myself as being on a 2ww so as to protect myself from disappointment. I know that sounds terribly negative. In the unlikely event of af not appearing I'll test once I'm about 5 days late.

Well, I gave up on the pineapple juice because it didn't agree with me, and tried grapefruit juice instead (thread somewhere suggested it helps with fertilisation) but that gives me stomach cramps too. Acid juices are not for me. No 'practicing' for me - dh is rolling around in agony still with his shoulder, but still refusing to go to a doctor of course.

Hope today is less stressful for everyone,
Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Aaah - the internet gremlins got me this morning. I shall try and remember what I said first time!


Polly - This is so depressing, but if by some way of a mircale of epic proportions should come my way then AF will not arrive on Sunday. Seriously though, don't pin any BFP hopes on me . I can feel the distant cramps calling, whispering to me "I'm coming to get you". I am totally out of the running this month.

Donna - I felt exactly the same way as that on Monday. I was close to hunting out some old crockery to throw at the wall, but hunted out the chocolate instead and had a good cry. I am fed up of feeling like this too. It's exhausting on the last week of 2ww feeling those light cramps but praying it's not true. Sometimes even when I see the start of AF I pray it's just spotting!!! I feel like throwing the towel in! 
P.S - eewww on the wotsit sandwich. does it not all stick to the roof of your mouth?

Emma - Good morning. I'm not doing too bad today. Just trying to ignore the distant cramps and pretending I can't feel them! How was the allotment yesterday? Did you enjoy all the wonderful sunshine? I saw all of about 40 minutes of it on my lunch hour. 
Fair enough on the juice front. I converted to cranberry for a few days. I think pineapple was giving me cramps Cranberry has such a weird after taste though and makes me thisty!

No practicing for me either. I can't be arsed and I always resent it towards the end of 2ww,  a sort of "what's the point" attitude. I always feel bloated and not nice when AF is due anyway, not particularly sexy!

Have a lovely day everyone! Wedding Anniversarry for me tomorrow  -which means PRESSIES!!!!!


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## emmadaffodil

Hello again,

Lovely sunny day here. I have been at my allotment again today, but I'm all allotted out now. An old man made my day today by praising my broad beans ('the finest crop I've seen in many a year' apparently)  . This is amazing as normally the old men tell me off for not planting things in straight rows (I do try but they get wonky somehow).

Annie - I do the same with af, and keep kidding myself that I might be pg until things get into full flow. Try not to give up hope. I'm convinced that you and Donna will succeed this time or next and I'll be left behind. I know it isn't a competition really but....

Back outside for me.
Emma, xx
I'm sticking to orange juice from now on. I always drank 2 glasses a day before I diversified into other juices with no ill effects. I've given up alcohol again though and haven't drunk caffeine now for weeks (not that it has done any good).


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## Donna Taylor

Hi everyone,

Yes I did mean a wotsit (crisp) sandwich just really fancied it but in the end couldn't be bothered to make it so just had a bag of wosits instead 

AF is due on Sunday to Annie, can see it will be busy on hear then! I am not planning on testing just waiting to see if AF arrives but knowing me I'll trst anyway - you know just incase.

Haven't had any cramping today apart from one hudge painfull cramp that had me huddled over in pain at about 8.30 this morning only lasted about 45 sec and thats all i've had all day??
Still feeling very emotional more so than usuall but I think that could be because I am convinced its another BFN for me.
Had a cup of tea last night that tastedreally funny I could't drink it, DH thinks it may be ' a sign' but I am sure its only a sign og the fact the cup probably wasn't rinsed properly when it was washed - guess I'll find ou ton sunday.

Emma, don't feel like that you have made much more progress than me don't feel down and stop being negative there is no reason why it couldn't have happened for you this month   

I really hope all 3 of us are pregnant, how good would that be.

HI to Queen polly

Donna xx


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## pollyhoping

So, Donna and Annie on 12th, Emma on 20th.            

Donna, I remember having cheese and crisp sandwiches at school, in fact there was one girl who would put her crisps in any kind of sandwich. I've never heard of it since and thought it was some kind of local oddity. Does it have to be wotsits or will any kind of savoury snack do?   More important, was it a sudden craving that came over you in the last week, or have you had them before in a sandwich 

Golly Emma, you sound like you have been really busy today. I hope that you haven't been _too_ energetic and saved some energy for growing babies!!! How is your garden getting on - is it recovering? I sometimes think it might be nice to have an allotment, I have a lovely courtyard garden - small but lovely and all in pots. I put in a watering system last year, as if we don't get home early two or three evenings in a row in hot weather it can really suffer. (guess we don't have time for an allotment then! The neighbours always offer to water when we are away, but I know that they think that one watering can is enough between them is enough, whereas I like to give a good drenching...

Annie - you sound really down today. Have you been able to see your friend? Like Emma said, it's not easy to know what to say, but we are here to listen to you if you need it. If you are giving her a lot of support, please remember that we are here for *you*. Life isn't fair or easy sometimes.

What is planned for your wedding anniversary? I hope that DH is taking you out for a nice meal and there are some flowers in the equation somewhere. I want to hear all the details tomorrow!

Take care everyone.

Polly


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## AnnieR

Goooood Mooornin to my little gang of special friends

Although it's only 08:05 the day is starting rather well. I didn't wake up feeling like I'd only just gone to sleep. managed to wash my hair, add a conditioning treatment and blow dry before work instead of scraping it back in a ponytail cause I can't be arsed. DH has bought me a gorgeous skirt for our anniversary and is so clever even managed to find one made of linen to follow the traditional element of gifts!

We are going out to dinner tonight. We're off to a restaurant just out of town that everyone always raves about but we've just never been to. Quite amazing really cause we like to eat out - alot!

Flowers?!?! - yeah right. DH used to do flowers when we first together. I haven't received any since our first anniversary and that was only because he suggested playing golf all day on our special day and I threw a raging head fit and stayed at a friends for the night!

Emma - You're totally right this isn't a competition and a success for one of us is a success for all of us and all 4 of us *are* going to get there. Maybe not this month, but I predict by Xmas we'll all look like stuffed turkeys!!!

Donna - Could be a coincidence, or it could be signs. I really hope it's the latter.I've convinced myself that you are our BFP this month!!! I feel sick and giddy with the thought of it. I'd be so over the moon..

I've decided not to test straight away (given the choice!). I'll wait a few days after Sunday.

Polly - I did sound rather negative yesterday -didn't even realise til I read it back! - sorry! Anyhoo feeling much perkier today. How are you feeling about your surgery?

Wishing you all a wonderful day, speak to you all later xxxx


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## emmadaffodil

Good morning one and all,

Annie - happy wedding anniversary. I hope you have a lovely day. It seems to have got off to a wonderful start!  There are smileys for every occasion here. Did you get dh something linen? Dinner sounds lovely. Are you drinking?!
My dh never buys flowers on anniversaries or Valentine's day either - always says something about it being more romantic to give them spontaneously on other days of the year, but in practice it is when he has done something wrong or feels guilty about working late. He's lovely really though....

Donna - these signs sound good to me. I'm already over-analysing every single twinge, although in my case it would be far too early for anything, whether af or pg. Goodness, the next few days are going to feel like forever. Does a wotsit sandwich make you very thirsty?

Polly  - hello! Garden is actually fine, so I may have got away lightly from the weedkiller incident. One plant has died, but it was only an annual that had self-seeded and I wasn't terribly fond of it. I'll know for sure in a couple of weeks, but fingers crossed.

Looks like we may do IUI earlier than expected. Dh has second interviews for jobs in Manchester so we may have to move. As he would end up moving there before me (I'd have to stay and sell the house etc) we've decided that we should get on with IUI whilst we're both still in the same part of the country on the relevant days of the month. I'm not keen on moving, or not cross-country anyway, but I'll have to make the best of it. 

Got to go,
Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Oooh Emma - we might be able to be IUI buddies!!!

I'd be a bit anxious about moving cross country too, but Manchester is an amazing city. I absolutely love it, for the shopping if nothing else! Good idea to crack on with IUI if that's what you've decided. Don't think DH can FedEx his wigglies?


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## emmadaffodil

Hello again,

Annie - an IUI buddy would be fab!      
After all this time I still don't really know where to start with it all. I've narrowed it down to 3 clinics:
1. Guys - because Donna said the people there were nice and it is cheaper than many of the others
2. Barts - almost opposite where dh works so convenient and also relatively cheap
3. London Fertility Centre - much more expensive and less convenient location but they claim to have lots of experience of treating vag people.
Wish there was somewhere nearer (Herts/Beds) rather than having to get the train into London. Don't know how to decide or quite what to do next, so I'm just going to wibble around for the next day or so.

Hope your anniversary day is still progressing well, and you have a wonderful evening.

Manchester is a difficult one for me. It is where I grew up (halfway between Rochdale and Manchester) and my parents still live there. I love the city and the people, and the shopping is fantastic (much better than London in my view), but there is my mother too. It would be so much harder to make excuses about not visiting if I lived nearby (haven't seen her for about 2 years), and I'm not sure how much I want her to be involved with any offsrping I may produce. The compromise solution is for us to move to Chester, provided the commuting is viable for dh. Chester is a lovely city and dh has lots of family there (grandmother and 2 uncles and their families - lots of babysitters perhaps  ) and his father and brother are buried there. I'm coming round to the idea slowly. It is sufficiently far from my parents for us not to see each other too regularly; they have just been on holiday for a week 20 miles from their house, so aren't prone to long car journeys.

Anyway, I'll stop rambling. Whilst I've been doing so the sun has vanished.

Take care,
Emma, xx


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## AnnieR

Oooh Chester is luurrrvly. I went there for a wedding at the end of last year and fell in love with the place. It's totally gorgeous.

I hope you don't mind me asking and you might have mentioned it before - but why is distance necessary from your Ma & Pa?

I left work early this afternon to try and track down a top and accessories to go with the skirt for dinner tonight. I hit the shops for over 2 hours and purchased a "make do" top and nothing else. I had the perfect image in my head of what I wanted and couldn't find anything like it. My feet are throbbing. Oh well! After a glass of red I won't care so much

Have a lovely evening everyone xxx


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## emmadaffodil

Hi Annie - sorry you couldn't find the perfect top. I'm still looking for the perfect dress with no success. Make sure you don't spill red wine on that lovely new skirt!

I am so disappointed with the weather. We were promised a hot sunny afternoon and I'm cold!

I don't have a problem with my father. My mother abused me when I was growing up (and still would if she had the chance) - emotional stuff, never anything physical. According to Dr Sex this is the root cause of my vag. To cut a long story short(ish) she never showed me any affection or love at all (but showed heaps to my brother) and repeatedly said really horrible things to me (that I was fat, ugly, spotty, a horrible person, noone would ever marry me, I'd never have children, why couldn't I be like x, y and z etc), and often said these in front of my friends (people rarely wanted to come back to our house twice!). Sounds horrible but even as a very small child I hated her and couldn't bear her to touch me. I always thought that it was my fault - that she loathed me because I was actually a really horrible person; she often told me that she didn't like me and you couldn't choose to like your children. Only when I went to uni and met other people's parents, and especially dh's, did I realise what a peculiar upbringing I had had (parents very religious too, although not over endowed with Christian values perhaps). (I also wasn't allowed to do anything 'normal' as a child - go out, have nice clothes, watch TV etc). I saw that other people's parents were really proud of them, and looked at them fondly, and paid them compliments etc - things I'd never experienced. 
Talking to Dr Sex has really helped me to deal with all this; a few months ago I couldn't talk about it without getting upset. She says that as the adult my mother had the responsibility for making me feel loved, and I was not to blame. For years I was terrified that I too would be a terrible mother, but dh has persuaded me that I'd be just fine. Parts of the reason we got dogs was for me to test out my skills at looking after someone/thing else before being let loose on a real live baby!
Sorry, I'm rambling on again.... 

Have a great evening Annie, and enjoy your new skirt!  
Emma, xx


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## pollyhoping

Emma, I'm so sorry to hear your story. You didn't in anyway merit that kind of treatment from someone whose role in life was to support and nurture you and give you unconditional love. I am quite sure that your DH is right, that you will be absolutely fine as a parent yourself, you will certainly know how NOT to parent.

Did/does your father ever support you against her? It does sound that your mother has a real issue, which is a great pity for her, but has been a disaster for you. 

You are really brave to have told us about it, and it doesn't matter if you get upset, you have every reason to. I know that we were all indignant for you about the intimacy issue, but it sounds as though Dr Sex is generally helping you, do you think? Have you seen her recently? and did you get anywhere in terms of understanding about the intimacy issue?.

Take lots of care of yourself, and remember that we are always here for you.

Polly


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## pollyhoping

Hi Annie, I'm glad to hear you sounding a lot brighter, and I hope you had a fantastic anniversary. Tell DH you need FLOWERS!!! Actually, my DH buys flowers for himself, so you could compromise there!

I haven't really thought a great deal about the actual surgery itself, thanks for asking, I am trying to do a major deal for the company, that almost came off the rails today, but I rescued it  I think. And then I have decided on a new member of staff, but need to work out when he can start, as that is the sticking point. It's all more about working out when & how all the bits of the jigsaw can come together this month. So I am doing all the practical stuff, and doing lists (buy new jammies at the top of list), but not really thinking about it. But then, I would approach a holiday in the same need-to-know basis usually!

DH is away for the next two days, so I think while I have the house to myself, I will check out those dilators.... I know I _can_, I just don't want to. Bleugh.

Take care

Polly


----------



## AnnieR

Emma - Thank-you for sharing that with us. I feel touched that you felt you could share it with us as it must be incredibly difficult to talk about. I can see now why it would be the root cause to your vag. What a terrible terrible trauma for you. I wish I could give you a real hug. 
Saying I understand would be insulting because unless you were there, you'll never know, but let me tell you this Emma Daffodil - I've only known you 5/6 months and never met you in the physical sense, but regardless of that and in that time I have come to know you as someone who is kind, caring, sensitive and very loving. You are an incredible person and anyone who doesn't recognise those amazing traits in you is missing out on something huge. I personally would miss you terribly if you weren't here as you've become a very good friend to me.Don't ever let yourself believe that you are any of those things you were told you were as a child. I know that not to be true just by talking to you these last few months.

You're a great friend, great wife and you're going to be a wonderful Mother.

If you ever feel you'd like to talk about it then I'm here 100% for you. Send me a personal message if you'd rather not share more initmate information with people who might view this page.

Sending lots of love to you  - Annie xxx


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## AnnieR

Hi Polly

I had a lovely anniversary dinner last night. Ate far too much rich food and felt bloated last night! It was lovely though. Well, that's it for another year.

I wish I had a similar approach to planning as yourself. I'm a bit of an organizing control freak! I think it stems from my childhood and having parents that were so unorganized and never dealt with anything - which ended up in disasters. I have to know everything is ready. i've even started telling DH what we need to get ready for our holiday and it's 8 weeks away!

Definitely try and give the dilators a go. It'll be the perfect chance while DH is away so you know there's no chance of him walking in!!!  Don't push yourself if you're not ready though. Even if you get them close to where they need to be  - that'll be an acheivement. 

Have a lovely day xxx


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## emmadaffodil

Good morning all,

Annie - thank you so much for your post. It was so sweet that words fail me (well almost). I feel so incredibly lucky to have you as a friend - and Donna and Polly too. You are all such amazing women. The great thing was that I didn't get upset telling you about this stuff because I've talked about it so much recently with dh and Dr Sex that finally everything is out in the open and clearer in my mind.

I'm glad you had a lovely dinner - you definately deserved a good night out!

Polly - thank you for your kind words too. To answer your Q I know that my dad loves me, although he wasn't great at showing it, but he is terrified of my mother and just does what he is told. He would just shrug his shoulders and say 'you know your mother' if I tried to question her behaviour. I think in some ways that she was jealous of his love for me - like she wanted him all to herself.
As for the dilators, the first time is the worst. I couldn't bear to look at them, but once you get going it should be fine. Don't push yourself too far if you don't feel ready though. I wish you lots of luck. I ought to get mine out again - haven't practiced for a few days.
Well done on saving your deal. You sound ever so important!

Donna - hello. Any more symptoms/signs? I'm keeping everything crossed now for you and Annie. I've almost decided that I'll try Guys for IUI, as your experiences sounded relatively good (apart from the BFNs, of course).

I'm feeling slightly out of sorts today, which I desperately want to be a sign of something but I know it is sleep deprivation. Dh _still_ has a bad shoulder which gets really painful in the night and he is disturbing my sleep. He is finally and reluctantly going to a doctor on Monday.

Take care everyone,
Emma, xx


----------



## AnnieR

Oh help me - I have eaten so much today I think I'm going to explode. I feel so sick. Just to make you realise the extent of my Friday blow out, this is what I have had so far:

2 slices of toast with butter and jam
1 Starbucks hot chocolate - with cream!
1 slice of chocolate fudge brownie
Chicken burger and chips
1 Mars bar ice cream.


Ugggh, I feel groase just confessing. I swear that on Monday I am going back on my health kick diet. At the beginning of the year I did a 12 week detox. I didn't eat dairy, limited amounts of bread and ate fesh fruit and veg everyday. I felt great on it, even though I lost a load of weight on it and got a bit skinny. I think I wasn't eating enough protein?!?! 

Anyway back to it on Monday. I can't go to Zante like this!

No signs or symptoms of a BFP for me. Absolutely nothing. It's not fair!!!!

Emma - hoping you our of sorts feeling is a sign of some good news. Fingers crossed. Very relieved to hear dh is finally off to the Docs - for your sake as well as his


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## emmadaffodil

Annie - does stress make you hungry?! Just reading your list of food consumed makes me feel hungry. I could very happily eat any and all of those foodstuffs right now. I'm eating some banana cake at the moment (not convinced it counts towards the 5 portions of fruit and veg though). I get a bit obsessed about eating my 5 portions each day, but I also eat masses of carbohydrates and cheese and yet stay pretty small. I feel bad sometimes because I can eat anything without putting on much weight, whereas dh only has to look at a cake to pile on the pounds. Having said that I'm having one of those bloated pre-period days today. You carry on eating, after all being underweight can be bad for ttc too.

There may be no signs of a BFP for you, but surely that means no signs of a BFN too. Are you going to test at the weekend?

I finally bought a skirt today. Decided dresses were a non-starter. Now i have to pluck up the courage to show my palid legs to the world.

Hope everyone else is OK. Anyone doing anything nice at the weekend? I haven't really made any plans yet. I feel like having a lazy weekend slobbing around the house.

Emma, xx


----------



## Donna Taylor

Hi everyone,

Having a lazy weekend sounds good I think I will try and do that to although will have to do some house work and shopping tommorrow. Making sure I have nothing planned for sunday as feeling def sure that AF is arriving so will probably be moody and upset.
Had some spotting today so think AF is on her way, could be inplantation bleeding but I very much doubt it as I am not that lucky!!!!

Emma, glad you have decided on IUI, although if you are managing BMS are you sure it is neccesary? you could do it all on your own.
Guys were very good, soem nurses were rude but then you get that everywhere and maybe they were having a bad day. Dont let my BFN put you off in anyway, thats just the way it goes with fertility stuff.

The nursery where I work are advertising for a second deputy manager a kinda assistant deputy, I mentioned to the current deputy that I was interested in applying for the post although this would mean a big step up for me I was will ing to give it a try. She spoke to the owner for me who said that he wanted someone with experience as a DM but I was not to worry as I was getting a promotion anyway!!! Yippeeeee!! not sure what he has in mind or wehn I will be told officially but its great news, and will hopefully mean some more money to which I could really deal with.

As I said before think AF is on her way feel really grotty with usualy tummy and back pain so I'll just have to see.

How are you feeling Annie??

Polly, have a go with the dilators see how you feel about them, with DH not around you'll be able to take your time and completly (well maybe not completly) relax, but as Annie said don't rush yourself if you don't feel ready.

Sorry seem to have writen a page without really writting much!!
I'll try and do better over the weekend

Take care have a nice friday evening

Donna xx


----------



## pollyhoping

Sorry to hear about the spotting Donna, but it's not over til it's over  . I hope the job promotion is great and not too far away!

Annie, given what you said about your weight, I doubt that a couple of days of indulgence matter that much, so enjoy it! I find that if I start off being "naughty" on any particular day it's hard to stop - and I really need to!

No signs mean nothing, it could still go either way!  

Gave the dilators a go last night. It was OK apart from the fact that they obviously don't go in that far. (yuk) Aaaanyway....

I've just downloaded a hypnotherapy mp3 from the internet. This one is about eating healthily, so I am off to listen to it now. I'll post a review about it during the weekend if anyone is interested (no Annie, I'm NOT looking at you!!!   ) 

Love

Polly


----------



## AnnieR

Goood Morning Ladies

Aaah, finally a sunny day that I can enjoy and oh boy will I!!!! I am spending the entire day with one of my bestest friends and her 2 little people. We're going to a fete, a BBQ and a disco. Oh la la! Have shaved my legs in preperation and have cut off jeans at the ready.


Emma - Stress doesn't make me angry, I just love my food and I'm a huge junk food junkie. It took me many years to discover that living on crap has no nutritional value and does absolutely nothing for me. Sooo, had a complete turnaround and changed my diet completely - for about 6 months. When we went to the Maldives it all went horribly wrong and I just can't get back off the rubbish!!! Monday for sure though - this is it.

Donna - Fab news about the promotion. Yeah you!!!! Well Done. Sounds like you thoroughly deserve it and about bloomin time! Enjoy your lazy weekend my friend as it sounds as though your week days are about to get a lot more busy!

Polly - Liar, Liar - I know you're looking at me - Ha ha!!!  Cheeky monkey!

Well done you for having a go with the dilators. Huge milestone there. Love the idea about the hypnotherapy download. Do they do one on there for vag sufferers!?!?! A sort of "relax those pelvic muscles" option?


Still no signs of AF yet. I'm starting to wonder if the smiley face on the opk was a fib and that I didn't actually have a surge. Clomid is the drug of the devil so it wouldn't surprise me now if I have an uber long cycle. I am running to the loo every five flipping minutes to check at the minute.

I will definitely not be testing for quite some time. Simply because it just can't have worked -it just can't have and I absolutely hate testing. After so many BFN's I just can't put myself through it anymore - not without a really strong suggestion it might be a BFP. I am so sure AF will be here by Monday or that the Clomid did nothing for me and I'm going to have a really long cycle. 

Oh the joys of ttc!!!

Have a lovely Saturday everyone. Look forward to hearing what you're all up to 
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Donna Taylor

Morning all,

Woke up this morning with stomache and backpains, but no more spotting and not really alot of discharge either so not sure what is going on.
Feel all fat and frumpy like a usually do at the time of the month, wanted just to pull on some trackie bottems this morning but decided to wear a skirt and put on some make up to try and make me feel less crap!! and I have to say it is kinda working.
Trying not to but still clinging on to some hope that I might finally get a BFP but deep down I kniw thats not likely.

On a positive note, Polly well done for giving the dilators ago, when I got mine it took me weeks to take them out of the packet! so you ' go girl' well done!

Emma, 1 of my tomato plants has died think it might not have been getting as much sun as the other 2. the others are doing fine, one really big one and the other is a little behind. Collecting a stand thing from my nan today that they can climb up or something....

I'm sure I'll be back later

off to start knicker checking every 2 mins now!  

Donna xx


----------



## Donna Taylor

very quiet on here today, you all must far more exciting lives than me.

hope you are all well,

more spotting today although the blood is more red today (yest it was pinky)
been having cramps all day and feel very  

I think everyone was pregnant in sainsbury today EXCEPT ME   

Sorry feeling realy $hit, trying to stay positive but failing fast.
Hope your doing better than me Annie, fingers crossed for you hun xx

Donna xx


----------



## emmadaffodil

Hello

It is so weird but I posted on here this morning and my post has vanished! 

Donna - so sorry that you think af is on the way. You must be devastated. My heart really goes out to you.  Life seems so unfair sometimes.
Sorry about the tomato too. It shouldn't just die from lack of sun. Perhaps it was a dud plant or got a bit cold at night. It is so cold here tonight - I've got the heating on.

Annie - hope your day was as fun as you expected it to be (and kept your mind off the 2ww).

Polly - well done on trying the dilators! It will get easier as you get used to it. How did you get on with the hypnotherapy download?

Got to go, dh is cooking and the food is ready! Talk to you all tomorrow.

Emma, xx


----------



## pollyhoping

Donna :       
I have my fingers and everything truly crossed for you and for Annie. I know it doesn't sound good for you, but neither does it sound like it is conclusive. 

Hope you had a great day today Annie, with your friend.

We had an OK day today - I met DH in London back from his trip and we went jammie shopping. Nothing I liked at all in my size, and we eventually went to Welwyn Garden City and found what I wanted in Marks. Just going to have a cuddle up on the sofa evening, just trying to decide whether it is cold enough to light the fire....

I didn't get far with the hypnotherapy last night, decided to listen in bed, but my pooter battery died as I was about three mins in. Couldn't be bothered to get out of bed and look for the lead!

Take care all

Polly


----------



## AnnieR

Hi Everyone!

Got a bit of a thick head today. Experienced an all day bender yesterday and seemingly paying the price  

Yesterday was a mix of two extremes at times - really fun, but also really depressing. I had fun with the children, going on the rides and eating lots (again polly!) etc etc, but on the other hand there were soooo many people there I knew or knew my hubbie - all with their children and babies. All asking when we were going to hurry up and have one.  It was so sad watching all my hubbie's male friends playing Daddy. I felt like a complete b***ch for not being able to do the same for my dh. The only other couple we are really good friends with that have not got children announced they are about to start ttc. Now I feel really desperate to sort of "beat them to it" It just doesn't seem fair that they might be pg in a few months. If they manage it then we are literally the only couple out of all our friends without a baby.

Anyway I drowned my sorrows in a few glasses of vodka to make the awfulness of the situation go away for a while.

On a funnier note I had a bit of a to do with the steering wheel of a dodgem car!!!! I took my Godson on and he was trying to shout something at me. I bent down so I could hear him and as I did, I got bumped up the bum and hit my ear on the steering wheel. It hurt sooooo bad!!!! I had a bright red and swollen ear for the entire night and it still hurts this morning!

Polly -  Well done on the p.j purchase. What are they like? 

Donna - I am so sorry that AF might be on it's way. How are you doing today?

Emma - How's your lazy weekend going? DH is working yet again today. I'm heading up to a friends to lay out on a sun lounger with dark dark shades and a hat on!!!!

Have a fab one everybody. Check in again later xxxx


----------



## emmadaffodil

Good morning,

Sorry if my post was a bit brief yesterday; I was trying to write quickly before my dinner was ready.

Donna - so sorry that I forgot to say congratulations on the imminent promotion. Well done you! You must have really impressed them in the short time you've been there. How are you today? I'm thinking of you 

Annie - you are so hard on yourself. I'm sure dh doesn't feel that way about you. You will have mini-Annies one day too (and may well beat them to it) and will be a brilliant mother. I can't get over how tactless people are asking about when you are going to have children - so insensitive.
Hope your ear and head are a bit better now.

Polly - glad you got PJs. I love PJs (and PJ shopping) but dh hates them. I revel in wearing them when he away or working late! Did you light a fire? We had one yesterday too; I keep thinking we've had the last one of the year but it is still so cold at night. I wonder if you live nearish to me - I'm just outside St Albans and have been to Welwyn many a time to visit John Lewis (far preferable to visiting Watford where I always start losing the will to live and have vowed never to return). I guess when you said you went to L&DH I should have twigged that you must be nearby.

I am so tired today, and just a tad grumpy. I'm hiding away by the PC to avoid dh for a while! He is like a bear with a sore head today (yet another night with no sleep because of his shoulder). Typical man - when he suffers everyone must suffer. I feel bad because I know he is tired and in a lot of pain, but... Let's hope the doctor can sort him out tomorrow. I'm going to go any potter in my garden; that always makes me feel better.

Take care everyone,
Emma, xx


----------



## Donna Taylor

Afternnon ladies,

I am so glad I am not the only one that loves PJ'S I have a pair for almost every day for a month I love them far more than shoes or bags!!! Think that may be because I am lazy and love my bed 

AF arrived as expected bang on time this morning, not feel to bad though felt worse yesterday than I do today but then I am staying in today, where yesterday all I could see were pregnant people!
Easing off now but had worse AF pains! had to take extra extra strond pain killers so feel a bit light headed now, I usually don't even take a paracetomal so that gives you a clue as to how bad they were! as if AF arriving wasn't bad enough in its self!

Annie how are you doing any sign of AF? got everything crossed for you and Emma   

Annie, I am sorry your friends were insensitive, do they know about you ttc? Not that this makes it any easier but I don't think our friends mean to be insensitive they just don't under stand, I know that shouldn't be an excuse but if you have never had a problem ttc then I don't think you can ever understand the pain and suffering it can cause.
I know exactly where you are coiming from about feeling you have let DH down (which you haven't) I always feel like that and have told DH on numerous occasions that he is free to walk away because I feel I cant give him what any other women can.
But I beginning to realise that yes DH could have a child more easily with another women but the fact is he doesn't want a child wth anyone else he wants on with me! I know your DH will feel the same, DH is with you and married you for YOU not the children you will give him. He loves you for YOU he didn't marry you womb and overies did he, he married all of, Dont be so hard on yourself you are allowed to be down we all get down but you are a fantastic women who has acheived so much and we will all get there honey  

Off to an arobics class tonight I am really trying to get into shape been going once a week but instructor told me for best results should go 3 times! so gooing tonight, DH is coming to   
The class is good fun but really intensive, its all karate and martial arts moves to music!

Trying to keep spirits up its all I can do though not fall into feeling sorry for myself but this is the 15th BFN for me, even though the first 9 attempts were with a turkey baster and looking back I didn't really stand much chance of it working all the 2ww emotions were the same, as was the hoping and praying!
OH well looks like its round 16 for me   

How are you doind Emma? your into second week now aren't you?

Take care all

Donna xx

p.s polly, did you say you op was on the 16th? thats thur isn't it?


----------



## AnnieR

Afternoon All

Complete change to my plans today. Friend is poorly so I went off food shopping instead. Now lounging on the sofa watching the MTV Movie Awards!!!

I cannot believe that not only do we all have vag problems in common we also luuurve p.j's. I am the HUGEST pj fan. I would prefer to wear p.j's all day than anything in the world. I have p.j's for all occassions - winter warm, super sexy, sleepover, weekend away, holiday, and the list goes on. How cool!!!!!

Emma - Turn that frown upside down! Although every woman in fully entitled to be a tadge grumpy now and again - especially if DH is driving them crazy   Ear is still red and head is still pounding. Cheered myself up with a huge bowl of fresh pasta, garlic bread and some Dairy Milk.


Donna - Enjoy yourself at aeorbics tonight - ugh! I've promised myself that I'll go back to the gym next week, although not relishing the thought. Thanks for you kind words. These "friends" don't know we are ttc. They think I'm not interested yet!!! If only they knew. I think they just say it cause it's one of those phrases that people feel the need to use. Like when you are single you get the" you'll be next down the aisle" and when you are married you get the " it'll be babies next for you". You know how it goes - it was just a bit like that yesterday.
I am so sorry AF arrived this time. You know that we're all here for you and will do everything to get you through these naff couple of days and will be with you all the way on the next go. If you think about it, you've technically only had 6 good goes at ttc. A large amount of couples take 12+ goes at it naturally so you're totally in line with the norm.  And even as I write that I don't know if that'll make you feel any better today - but hopefully a little bit!

My AF hasn't started yet and I'm beginning to think something might have gone awry this month? Unless - if I had a LH surge on day 15 does that mean I ovulated on day 16 or 17, cause if that's the case I might not be due until tomorrow or Tuesday? I'm all confused!!!!! I'm not feeling a thing either to suggest anything's going to happen. Those mild cramps I had at the beginning of the week have gone, no back ache, no bouncy boobs - NOTHING!  I don't know what's happening


----------



## Donna Taylor

Thanks Annie, I totally know what your saying and yes it does help a little bit, but cant help thinking that that might mean I have to have another 6 goes! which I really don't want.

I think if you got serge on day 15 then that will mean you ovulated somewhere on day 15-16. AF usually arrives approx 14 days after the serge.
No signs could be good news, have everything crossed for and as they say on the lottery this time 'IT COULD BE YOU' how great would that be. really hoping it is a good sign       

beginning to feel bit rubbish about it all again now but hay have aerobics to cheer myself up  (not) well laughing at unco-ordinated DH may help a little.

Best wishes to all

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil

Donna - so sorry that af is in full flow now. You really do deserve some luck. Next month _has to be your turn surely. 
I feel a bit hard done by in the pyjama stakes as I've only got 4 pairs! My big thing is bags - I have lots of them and love buying them. Whenever I go out to buy clothes or shoes (which I loathe) I end up buying a bag instead. 
Aerobics sounds fun  Hope it isn't full of scary people in tight lycra (male or female).
Donna, I think I'm on day 10 of 2ww, but I'm trying not to even think that I'm on a 2ww.

Annie - your post has made me hungry again! I have been eating all day long, including a fab breakfast of pancakes and bacon with lots of maple syrup. Fishcakes and salad for dinner though, which is fairly healthy. I am definately eating more chocolate since giving up wine too.
Your lack of af and af signs sounds very promising! I'm keeping everything crossed for you.     

I'm not feeling grumpy any more, just tired. Today has vanished and I can't think of a single constructive thing that I've done. Spent the afternoon lying on the sofa watching tennis and reading the papers.

Take care everyone,
Emma, xx_


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## pollyhoping

Donna, really sorry that it wasn't your month - it's tough and unfair. It will be soon, I'm sure.  .

Hope aerobics went OK. I think you are brill going in the first couple of AF days, I tend to use the excuse to slob! Thanks for asking, yes, I'm off to the Lister in London for the op on Thursday. DH was offering to take me in, but I think I would rather go on my own, otherwise he'll just be hanging around waiting for them to take me off to theatre, so I won't be able to relax. Of course he HAS to come and see me later!! It has turned into a bit of an outing, as he arranged to see his daughter for dinner as well on Thursday evening (she knows I'm going to be in hosp) and now it has turned into him having dinner with his two sons (who I don't want to know about it) as well, as an early father's day "do", so he is wondering if he will have time to come and see me between me waking up and having to meet them for dinner!! He'd better work something out!!! .

Annie - sorry to disappoint, but I don't really like pjs! (Usually sleep au natural) Which of course is why I am panic-buying for hospital visit. I have one pair, and thought that as I am in for two days, I would like another to change into. If I have to have them, I prefer crisp cotton, rather than t-shirty things. Well, some are cute, but only on a cute bod,  . That of course was what made it hard to find what I wanted. In the end, the pair I found are sort of cornflower blue with white embroidered flowers all over and then more embroidery at the hems and cuffs. Still, if the weather ever gets warm enough, I might get some wear out of them to lounge around in later. 

Didn't light a fire last night but ended up watching tv under a blanket (I was under the balnket, not the TV  ). But I've lit one now!

Sorry to hear that your friends were insensitive, you're right, it's just what people say. Every time people ask me if I have children, I get a surge of irrational anger before I remember that they are not really taking the P, and are probably not that interested anyway. But you really made me laugh about your ear injury!!! So funny!    Hope you are not in too much pain.  

Emma, I guess that we don't live too far away from you - we live between Luton and Hitchin. I imagine that if Watford makes you lose the will to live, you've not shopped in the Arndale in Luton. We would rather drive to Watford! But we haven't done that for ages. We probably go to St A every couple of months. We went to Hatfield today and I actually bought some shoes!!! (i hate shoes!)

Can my DH go to the doc's with yours? He has had a bad shoulder for a while, but can't even describe what it's like, or do anything - just moans. But it doesn't keep him awake though, so it can't be too bad.  

Anyway, happy Monday for tomorrow ( ) everyone. 

Take care everyone (and  , Annie)
Polly


----------



## AnnieR

Good Morning All

I haven't slept a wink all night panicking about AF. I've driven myself mad and been desperate to log on to talk to you guys since 3am!!!!

Well, I'm on day 31 right now, which in normal circumstances might be a good sign - but as you may have learnt by now - I'M NOT NORMAL!

If I hadn't have seen that LH surge on day 14/15 I would have simply thought that the Clomid hadn't worked after all. But because I did see it I'm torturing myself over whether it was true or not!!!!! If it was true, then period could now be technically late. 

I think I know the answer to this one, just really really don't want to test unless someone can tell me that LH surge was right and I still have no symptoms of AF or PG.

I'm just going to hold on a few more days I think and drive myself completely insane.


----------



## emmadaffodil

Good morning,

I've been running around like mad since 7 this morning. It is so nice to sit down and come onto FF.

Annie - I am sorry that you are going through such mental torment. There's no reason to think that the LH surge was false is there? I obviously don't know anything about the technical side of things though. It all sounds very encouraging for you, but I can so understand why you don't want to test or even think that you might be pg; those BFNs are just too much to bear aren't they.

Donna - how was aerobics? How was dh's performance?! Like Polly said, I wouldn't dream of doing that on the first day of af; I'd be lying on the sofa groaning and feeling sorry for myself! 

Polly - I've never had the pleasure of visiting the Luton Arndale (although a friend of mine has a postcard of it on his kitchen wall). I know Hitchin quite well as I go there for dog training classes, in fact I'm going there this evening. That area is very nice isn't it - well the villages anyway. If we stay in this area I'd like to move out that way someday.
Sorry to hear about your dh's shoulder. Mine went to the doctor this morning only he'd made a mistake and booked an appointment with a nurse practitioner instead (I knew I should have made the appointment for him) who was as much use as a chocolate teapot! She told him to make an appointment with a doctor in a couple of weeks if it was still hurting. He is in agony - can't drive, carry anything or sleep. He even stayed in the spare room last night so that he didn't keep me awake. The nurse even gave him a printout about frozen shoulder (which is what we think he has) which said if you are in pain you need an urgent steroid injection from a doctor. 

I was convinced that af was coming yesterday (although it's not due until Friday) but it hasn't so far.

Got to go now,
Emma, xx


----------



## emmadaffodil

Annie - are you OK? You're very quiet today. 

Take care,
Emma, xxx


----------



## Donna Taylor

Evening everyone,

I usually slob around when AF arrives to eating loads of choc, but I am on a healthy eating thingy and trying to exercise more. Actually felt better for it.

Annie, how are you? I am sorry to hear it is all driving you mad! you are a stronger women than me tyo have not tested by now, I def would have.
have everything crossed for you and a BFP

Emma, send DH straight to the docs, ignore what the nurse said about 2 weeks. Go back now he is obviously in pain and needs strong pain killers if nothing else. Hope he is better soon.

Polly i'll take the chance now to wish you all the very best of luck for thursday. Hope to hear from you over the weekend if you feel up to it.   of support.

Donna xx


----------



## AnnieR

Hello, Hello, Hello - sooo sorry I've been slow in checking back in today. Just had a really manic Monday at work!

Anyhoo - I'm here now! Still driving myself nuts over this whole AF/Clomid/LH Surge situation. Have arrived back at "it can't possibly have worked and AF is not late - it's just going to be longer" Although saying that I know I'll have no choice but to do a test if AF isn't here in the next few days. If not for my sanity - but for your guys sake too!!!

Emma - Hi, how's your day been? Alot calmer since this morning I hope?

Donna - good for you on the healthy eating and exercise. I was as good as gold today and ate 4 portions of fruit!!! - check me out! And even though there is an amazing cheesecake sat in my fridge and I'm all alone with it - I have not caved into it....yet.

Polly - Wishing you the very best of luck for Thursday and a speedy recovery. Hope everything goes really well. Enjoy the couple of days of peace and quiet - and then hurry back to us. Will be thinking of you xxxx

Have a lovely evening all. I shall check in again later xxx


----------



## pollyhoping

Annie - I'm going to take charge here and tell you that you HAVE   to test Wed morning and post the results before 11.00 am, cos I can't be out of the loop and not know what happened until Sat eve.   ..

Emma - your DH sounds in a really bad way. Is he off work? Can you afford for him to see a Chiropracter? (I can recommend a couple this way if you want, but there must be loads near you too) Does he have private insurance through work - (I just ask cos people don't always remember that they do)? Definitely he can't go on like this, so at the very least get him an emergency appt with your GP. You need him to be doing the fetching and carrying right now anyway! Is there something that he remembers doing that hurt it?

Thanks everyone for your good wishes for Thursday. It is turning into such a busy busy week, I'll be glad to lie down for a couple of days and be waited on hand and foot (just like home really!!  )

Take care

Polly


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## AnnieR

Morning All!

Polly - I make no promises about testing before 11am Wednesday! I expect I'll still be hanging on til the weekend to test (If AF doesn't arrive) so you won't miss out on a thing!!!

I'm feeling a bit sorry for myself today   I am fed up with not knowing what's going on. Did I ovulate? Did I even have a LH surge? Where are AF symptoms? Am I having a long cycle? I just want a bit of a cry today.

One thing is for sure, if AF does come I am getting straight in for IUI. At least then I should be able to be more confident that my egg and DH's sperm were all there at the right time!

Oooh- think I'm getting some cramps. AF might be coming after all - standby!


----------



## emmadaffodil

Good morning all,

Annie - sorry to hear that you're feeling sorry for yourself. How are the cramps? Did you sleep better last night? I couldn't sleep last night and almost came on here to see if you were in the same boat. I'm glad you've got a positive strategy just in case this isn't your month.
Well done on the healthy eating. It is easier at this time of year, I think, when there is lots of yummy summer fruit. A bit of cheesecake won't do you any harm. In fact, if af does arrive, you should eat masses of it.

Donna - well done on the healthy thing too. You are all putting me to shame. I usually am a very healthy eater, but at the moment I am eating too much chocolate and bread with strawberry jam too.

Polly - I want to wish you all the very best for your surgery. Try not to worry too much, and make sure you rest properly afterwards to recover. I'll be thinking of you.

Well, after yet another night of dh shoulder pain I have taken charge of the situation. I phoned the surgery in my best stroppy no-nonsense voice and insisted they find an appointment with a doctor today. I really hope they can sort him out. If not he'll never return to see a doctor for anything. To answer your question Polly, he does have private medical care through work and could get treatment that way but for some reason that I can't fathom seems reluctant to use it. He is concerned (I think) that it will be seen as a pre-existing condition, as he had a couple of cycle injuries to his shoulder several years ago which may have triggered this, and they aren't covered. he needs steroid injections which his mother (a nurse) reckons will be really expensive. Having said that if the GP doesn't work out I will insist on it because he can't go on like this. He is still working but the pressure of pretending to be fine there means he is in a foul mood by the time he gets home!

I'm seeing Dr Sex this afternoon and my stomach is churning with nerves at the thought of it. I was hoping I could go and tell her that I'd had lots of sex and was now cured. Although we managed the bms just after I last saw her there has been no action at all for 10 days (due to the shoulder) and i can't imagine any in the near future either. I need to have it out with her about the intimacy thing too, but it will come out all wrong when I try to explain.

Talk later. Have a good Tuesday everyone,
Emma, xx


----------



## AnnieR

Hi Emma

Cramps keep coming and going which they've been doing for over a week now, so still none the wiser. I'm finding it very hard to be my usual positive self today. I feel the need to throw china at the wall again!!! 

I slept really well last night. Think it must have been due to the lack of sleep the night before!

If/When AF arrives I am buying the biggest cheesecake I can find and eating the entire thing to myself... with ice cream!

Hope DH gets on better with the Dr today. Fingers crossed... for both of you!

Good Luck with Dr Sex today. Tell her that you have had sex, it might/should make a difference to what you chat about today. I know exactly what you mean about tackling the intimacy topic. I get completely tongue tied in situations like that. Just try and stay calm, take some deep breaths and take your time over what you want to say. Make sure you lead the conversation!

Speak to you later xxx


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## emmadaffodil

Hello again,

Well, I survived my meeting with Dr Sex. Not as traumatic as last time, thank goodness. I _did_ tell her about having sex. I thought that might mean I'm 'cured' and she wouldn't want/feel the need to see me again, but I have another appointment in a couple of weeks time. She seems to think that the traumatic effect of less than ideal sex caused dh's shoulder problems (I guess it is her job to see everything as being about sex). Anyway he has been to the doctor now and is now much happier with his faith in the medical profession restored. Apparently he has a severed ligament not frozen shoulder (so much for diagnosing by internet) probably caused by carrrying his bicycle on and off trains. He has very strong painkillers and a referral to a physiotherapist. And, from a purely selfish point of view, he can't drink alcohol with the painkillers which makes it easier for me not to!

Didn't really tackle the intimacy questions. I stupidly mentioned it just as we were finishing up and got upset and wobbly-voiced. I feel soooooo embarrassed (and i'd already strugggled to fight back tears earlier). 

Hope everyone else is OK.
Emma, xxxx
Hope everyone else is OK.


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## Donna Taylor

Hi everyone,

Annie, sprry you are having a bad day I hope for your sake that IF AF is going to arrive that it does it soon its really unfair the way our bodies play tricks on us. I have been late so many times and got all excited only for AF to arrive a few days later. You really are stronger than me, I would have tested by now. I am really really hoping your are pregnant....please let her be......please let her be....  
Hope you feel better now? is there any cheesecake left?

Emma, Glad DH is sorted out hopefully it wont take to long to heal. Never simple with men is it!?
I wouldn't panic about not having sex since bms cause neither have I! plan to try again at the weekend seeing as weekend after I will be ovulating again, want to get soem practice in. Sex is still so functional that I made a point last week of not having sex and just pleasuring each other as we always have.

work is really busy for me the nursery is expanding form a 22 place nursery to a 60 place nursery! as from monday, although I hope we haven't got 40 new children starting on monday 
Everyone is rushing around all day, we are short staffed adn there is a big case of having ' to many cooks spoiling the broth'
right hand doesn't always seem to comunicate with left either, its manic hopefully should settle down in a few weeks.
nothing more as been said about my promotion so I am beginning to wonder, anyhow thats my moan over.

hope you are all well

Donna xx


----------



## AnnieR

Evening All

Has anyone ever managed to spend £100 in the last 20 minutes of thir lunch hour before - I totally did today and it felt goood. Walked into a shop and just wanted everything. Settled for 2 skirts, sandals, 2 t-shirts and a shrug. Going back next week for more holiday clothing!!!

Donna - You totally busted me. I was just tucking into left over cheesecake as I started reading you message   

I caught myself contemplating testing today. I had a complete dizzy spell earlier and decided enough is enough I need to know if a miracle has occured or if I'm just a hypocondriac. Then I had some more cramps and changed my mind! I just can't be pg. Maybe DH wasn't in after all?,maybe I didn't ovulate?, maybe the OPK lied? It just cannot have worked. I can't believe it's time for you to be ovulating again already. That came around really quick. Happy bms this weekend  and fingers crossed for a BFP this time.

Emma - So glad you had a decent session with Dr Sex today although I _cannot believe_ she suggested DH did his shoulder in having sex. Seriously - that Lady needs to get a clue!?! Don't worry that you didn't tackle the intimacy issue entirely today. There'll be other chances if you want to. And I totally get wobbly voice - normally when I have 1-1's with the Boss. It comes out of no where and I can never check it back in!!! Soooo embarassing!
Hallelujah that DH has a real diagnosis now and can do something about it. Couple of days on the happy pills and a good ol session with the physio will see him back to nornal in no time.

Well I'll leave you with my latest mare that will no doubt tickle you all- just been for a bikinni wax. I usually go every 6 weeks religiously, but had to put the last few appointments off. So the extra growth made it extra painful today.I think I actually yelped at one point - Ooh the pain 

Ciao for now all xxxx


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## Donna Taylor

Bikini wax oooowwwwwwww I can only manage a half leg!

Emma ment to say don't beat yourself up over getting emotional sometimes or even all the time for that matter, The sessions you have with dr sex are going to dig into all the feelings that you and everyone else push way down deep inside, so don't feel bad or stupid or anything ok. you are a super duppa wondefully strong sexy loving women and don't every forget that.

well toninght I am feeling rubbish, not sure why
just feel like I want to crawl into a hole and cry not sure if its cause its time of the month, or work, or tirdness, wanting a baby or all of the above.

I just want to be happy.

Night all

Donna xx


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## pollyhoping

Hi all!

Annie - great minds think alike, I went for waxing today as well, (I want to look my best on Thursday, don't want the surgeon distracted by my lack of grooming   - I need his best work here!!!) I actually don't find bikini as bad as the backs of my knees which is a bit weird.  

I hope that your shopping spree and the cheesecake cheered you up. Will you really hold out on testing all the way to the weekend? Maybe you and Emma will test together on Monday?!

Donna   sorry you're feeling so down, but I guess with all the changes at work, and not have been told about your promotion, and the sadness of having to start yet another month, it is hardly surprising that it seems a bit overwhelming. But having a case of the blues isn't actually the end of the world, and you WILL get over it and march on to fight another month and show them at work what a star you are. What you said to Emma goes for you too!

Emma, I'm glad that you have another appt with Dr Sex, I know you thought that you would be finished with her now, but you might find it useful and interesting to talk about how it goes in the future, and how you feel (wouldn't it be great to be talking to her about positive feelings and not always associating talking about it with feeling upset.) I saw a counsellor for about three years a while back (twice a week!) and I think the decision to stop because everything felt so much better being mine because I didn't need her any more was a good part of the therapy. It was about a real bout of depression following my last surgery for this issue, and although it was a bit of a chore sometimes making sure that I prioritised it, it was a really useful thing to go through. So I'm saying, (as long as you feel she is the right counsellor for you) don't be too hasty about giving her up just yet. A good rule of thumb might be that you stop getting upset?

Glad that DH has seen about his shoulder, of course now it is clear it isn't a pre-exisiting condition, he could go private if there is any advantage over the treatment he is getting. Hopefully he is a bit calmer now if the pain is easing with the pain killers.

Take care all

Polly


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## AnnieR

Good Morning Evveryone!

Polly - I certainly will hold on til the weekend to test. I'm convinced AF is on it's way and I won't need to, but guess we'll have to wait and see for a few more days. I'll definitely need to test by Saturday morning at the latest as I have accupuncture booked in. Can't go for needles if I'm pg! 

Donna - Sorry you were feeling pants last night. Did a good sleep help at all? You know we all know how you're feeling, but try and be positive. This weekend starts a new hope and possibility for you. After this weekend you could be pg. This could be the one. So put your sexiest underwear and get busy making the next Pop Idol or England Football Captain!

Morning Emma - how you doin this fine morning!?!?


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## emmadaffodil

Good morning everyone,

Annie, Polly - you are sooooooo brave with waxing! I have never done it - the thought terrifies me! I'm a shave every day person instead!

Annie - how are you this morning? I think you can safely assume that the OPK _didn't_ lie, so rule that worry out of your head. Are you still contemplating testing?

I'm fairly sure af is on the way for me. I went on a mad cleaning spree in the kitchen this morning, which I always find myself doing a day or 2 before af (I do clean it at other times too, I hasten to add, but not in the same frantic way). I'm also going to the bathroom every 2 minutes to check, although af isn't due until Friday. I found myself looking at baby stuff on the internet yesterday, and don't normally allow myself to do so; that'll definately have jinxed my chances.

Donna - how are things today. I'm not the least surprised you were feeling down yesterday. You sounds like you have so much on your plate at work, plus the bms pressure too. Hope you feel a bit better today. Perhaps you should remind them at work about the suggestion of a promotion.

Regarding Dr Sex, her idea about dh's shoulder seems nonsense to me, but I'm not taking it too seriously. Dh found it amusing. However, apart from the odd thing she says which seems way off the mark (and may well be my fault for not expressing myself properly), I have found seeing her incredibly helpful. I don't want to stop seeing her just yet but thought that might be on the cards; I know that I've far exceeded the number of appointments I'm entitled too (so must be a total nutcase).

Dh's painkillers don't seem to be strong enough, unfortunately. He had another bad night and is feeling very sorry for himself. Hopefully he can arrange physio for the next day or 2 (fortunately it is covered by his healthcare), and that might help.

Got to go,
take care everyone,
Emma, xxxx


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## AnnieR

Hi Guys

Sorry, can't stop for long at the mo. Had an absolute hellish day.

DH was in a car crash this morning .He's fine, but was a bit shaken up at first. Some old chappie pulled out of a side road and went straight into the side of DH. The car is mangled from front to back of the passenger side. Car looks like it could be a write off. Trying to sort it all out with the insurance company at the mo.

And oh yeah... guess what arrived this morning  

What a day! I'll check back in later when I've got a bit more time. Got to pop out for a bit. Speak to you all later xxx


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## emmadaffodil

Annie - your poor dh! I'm glad to hear he survived relatively unscathed. These things really shake you up though don't they.
I am so, so sorry that this wasn't your month either.  

Back later,
Emma, xxxxxxx


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## Donna Taylor

Oh Annie kinda puts my $hit day into perspective. Hope DH is ok and so so sorry AF arrived I really thought this was your month. hope your ok.

Had really horrible day at work today and I am feeling so down.
oh and promotion at work forget it!!! it came to me from the DM that it was on the cards but turns out its not happening.
I could be wrong but saw a list today for the new name badges to be ordered mine still said nursery nurse where other people who had been promoted badges said room leader!
guess I shouldn't have expected anything seeing as I've only been there 3 months.

Work is just so busy at the moment with the new building opening on monday and it is all so unorganised, I can't work in that kind of environment.
had a good cry at lunch time, maybe I should just work in sainsbury!!

Emma hope your ok, sending you lots and lots of    

Polly, wish you the very best of luck for tommorrow and a speedy recovery xx

Donna xx


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## pollyhoping

Hi girls

Annie, I'm so sorry to hear about DH's accident, but I'm glad that he's OK. Sorry too about AF. What a b&mmer.  

Donna, sorry that you were led up the garden path about the promotion. That is REALLY bad. How can they treat you like that? I know that it is not always easy to give staff the information that they want when they want it, and it is always possible to make mistakes, and when major changes are happening in a business, the bigger picture is difficult to keep straight. But the least that you deserve is an explanation and a realistic view of when you can expect promotion. If I did that to a member of staff, I would HAVE to explain and apologise - it's only right. Do you think that when all this is over, you could ask for a meeting? Only do it if/when you can keep your nerve, though, otherwise you are better not saying anything.

Emma, sorry that DH's shoulder is still bad, hope he finds a solution soon. 

I'll "see" you all soon in a few days!

Take care
Polly


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## AnnieR

Morning Everyone

I feel proper naff today, like my knees are buckling from having all this bad news piling up on me and staying strong is becoming near impossible. I think I am close to breaking point. I can't take anymore BFN's and wondering if it's ever going to happen for me. I've remained fairly positive throughout our ttc time but now I honestly think I've had enough. I can take no more - all my friends are ttc and getting BFP's faster than the speed of light. Just when I need my friends the most, I feel like running away from them all, or keeping them at a distance. It's an odd feeling.

Sorry guys - I'll be alright in a few days.

Donna - So sorry about the promotion not panning out. That was really mean of them to lead you up the garden path. Polly could be right, it might be worth speaking to someone about it and asking what happened. I know what you mean about not being able to work in chaos - but this could be a chance for you to get in there, sort it out and show them how fabulous you are. Give them no choice but to promote you!!!

Emma - Hope physio works for DH. How dissapointing that the painkillers didn't do anything. 
Thinking of you and keeping fingers crossed for a BFP!


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## emmadaffodil

Oh Annie  you are a wonderful strong person and you _can_ get through this and go on to face another month. You have had a horrendous time lately with the BFN, dh's car crash and all your friends having babies and BFPs. It's no wonder you feel that everything is too much. I know it is easy to say but everything will seem better in a a few days time. Don't try to be strong and put a brave face on things - just have a good old cry or break things if you want to. It _will_ happen for you one day, and you will be such a fantastic mother.

Donna - the same goes for you too!  
I think that your employer was really unprofessional and irresponsible to tell you that you would be promoted and then not do so. Many moons ago, when I employed people, that was a real no-no. You can't make promises like that and mess around with peoples' lives and expectations. The chaos and uncertainty at work must be horrendous. You should show them that you are indispensible and can bring order to the situation.

Pretty sure I'll be another BFN this month. I keep finding myself thinking about babies, and who I would tell if I was pg, and dates etc, and I wish I could snap out of this! It will only make the BFN harder to bear. I was convinced that you two would get BFPs this month, and am gutted that you didn't. Then I start to think that there is no chance for an me as age is not on my side! I can't concentrate on anything at the moment, so have to keep really busy. Yesterday I cleared everything out of my bedroom and had a mega spring-clean and clearout. Might tackle the spare room today.

I'm thinking of you both and am here for you anytime. Wish I could do something more useful to cheer you both up and make you feel better. 
Emma, xxxxxxxxxxxx


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## AnnieR

Thanks Emma - I probably will be alright after a good cry. I'm usually quite an upbeat/positive person who doesn't stay down for long.

Stay positive yourself, there could well be a BFP for you yet and 33 is not OLD!!!


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## emmadaffodil

Hi Annie,

How are you feeling now? Do things seems any better? Even positive people are allowed to have 'down' days.
Are you using tampons again? Have you phoned to organise IUI?
Sorry, forgot to ask earlier, is dh OK after the accident?

Seems like af is on its way for me too. I have stomach cramps and CM (always get that the day before). I've not given up hope yet but, in my heart of hearts, I know it isn't my month. I've just eaten 3 nectarines - I'm trying to break my chocolate habit at the moment; I've decided not to allow my self to eat any rubbish until I have had my 5 portions of vitamins. Mind you, I could take vitamin tablets in the morning and stuff myself with chocolate for the rest of the day. 

Take care,
Emma, xxxx


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## AnnieR

Nice thought Emma but not sure that vitamin supplements are quite the same as real fruit!!! I was planning to adopt the same attitude and eat 5 portions everyday, but obviously that went out the window this morning! Had 2 cakes today - what a pig!

I feel lees negative now, but very tearful. So many people stopped me at work today and asked if I was alright as I didn't seem myself. The eyes welled up just from peoples kindess!!! It's been such a crap week and lucky me - it's Father Day on Sunday. I have got plans that day, but not til late afternoon - Elton John is coming to town. He's going round skint football clubs doing concerts at their grounds to raise cash for them. So at least part of my day will be occupied.
I'm home alone tonight so I'm planning a nice bubble bath, glass of wine and a face pack. 

I really hope AF isn't coming Emma. I hope your body is trying to trick you into thinking it's coming, but surprises you on Monday!!! 


Haven't started on the tampons yet, but I will as soon as flow gets going. I've got my smear re booked for 2 weeks time and if that all goes well I shll be straight on the phone to book my tube test and get going on IUI.

DH is fine. He's been phoning me all day and barking instructions at me about what to tell the garage and the insurance company. But he's far to busy to call them himself!!!! Typical bloke. I'm just happy he's alright though.


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## emmadaffodil

Hello again Annie,

Glad you're feeling a little bit better. An indulgent evening of pampering sounds just the thing for you.
Elton John concert should be good. I assume you meant you were going to a concert rather than having him round for a Sunday roast? I'm going to admit to owning an Elton John CD, although I'm so embarrassed about it that I only play it in the car and have a good sing-a-long. 

Glad you dh is alright. Glad mine isn't the only one who barks orders too! I sometimes have to remind him that I am his wife not his secretary or one of his underlings.

I'm off out this evening. It is dh's birthday so we are going to a fab Indian nearby. It will be a very sober affair though - he can't drink or drive with his painkillers and so I have to drive. What we lack in alcohol we will make up for with food. 

I've been practicing with my dilators again today (and yesterday) after too many days when I just couldn't be bothered. I've even bought myself a lovely box to keep them and my lube collection in.

Donna - hello! Hope your day wasn't so bad as yesterday. Are things getting any more organised at work?

Here's hoping Polly's op went OK.

Got to go now and beautify myself.
Emma, xxxxxx


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## Donna Taylor

Hi everyone

Feeling so so $hit I just can't describe it.

Annie I know exactly what you mean about wanting your friends around you but then wanting them all far far away at the same time, that is exatcly how I feel. beginning to realise that I don't have any realy really good friends so kinda all on my own

Cant be arsed with my job anymore, infact applied to 2 new ones last night I just can't hack it there any more. People who I thought I had formed friendships with are bit**ing about me behind my back as I over heard them and they ahd all there infomation wrong anyway!

I am completly skint, having to rely more and more on credit cards to servive, but what will I do when they are maxed out!!!! work is hell!! cant take the constant BFN month after month with nobody understanding! if one more person tells me I should moan as I have plenty of time on myside I swear I will deck them! I kniw they mean well but it doesn't help!  don't know how much more I can take before I break down completly!!!!!

sorry I know you guys are having a rough time to but I really have no where to turn.

Emma it isn't AF arriving for you

Donna xx


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## AnnieR

oooh Emma - hope you've had a lovely curry. Now I'm hungry!!! I had a boiled egg and toast soldiers, not even close to as good as a chicken birihani!

No Elton isn't popping round for roast. Well not this Sunday anyway! Don't be shamed about owning his CD - he's a British Institution. It's our duty to worship him.

I love the idea of a pretty box for my speculum. Which reminds me, he needs to come back out to play before smear day or "S Day" maybe It's been a while!

Donna - you poor love. Come on hun it'll be alright. You've taken some really positive steps with regards to your job by looking for a fresh start somewhere new.
And don't even start to take any notice of those b,yatches that were talking a load of botox about you.They clearly don't know you and probably just saying it out of boredom. Please don't believe anything they said. They don't know you.
Don't rush into anything though, take your time to find something perfect for you and something that will make you happy.
I know how you're feeling about another BFN today, but I feel better having talked to you and knowing I am not alone. You're not alone either Donna, not by a long shot. Myself, Emma & Polly are your friends . We understand and we are here for you whenever you need. And I swear to never tell you that you have plenty of time on your side!!! We can't let this thing break us Donna. Between us all we need to stay strong and conquer it all together - and we will all get there.

Chin up lovie - it'll all be alright xxxx

Polly - I know you're not here, but just wanted to say that I thought about you today and hope it's all gone well xxx


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## Donna Taylor

Polly hope all went well today and you are resting up, sending you my nest wishes.

Annie thank you for your kind words they brought a tear to my eye, although it doesn't take much to do that recently.
everything just seems to be getting on top of me lately and feel I just cant take anymore. You guys are great and I have never even ment any of you maybe thats why we have a strong friendship, I don't know
sorry I am not making much sense am I

Cant seem to shift this black cloud! I will try to be more positive tomorrow but cant promiss especially as I am working late as we have a staff meeting!

Night all xx

Emma hope you haven't stuffed yourself to much   to DH

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil

Morning all,

Donna - I just don't know what to say. I wish I could give you a real hug.   It makes me really angry on your behalf that the people you work with can be so horrible to you and about you. It is obvious to me from your posts over the past months that you are a lovely, sensitive, warm, and funny (ha-ha not oddball, I hasten to add) person. Perhaps they are jealous that you have come there and are proving indispensible. Women can be really horrible to one another. Good on you to start looking for another job; far better than staying in one that makes you unhappy.

Annie - how are you feeling today? I hope today is better for you. It is probably a good idea to practice with the speculum before the big day; I'm assuming they can't do your smear test under water?!

Polly - I hope all went well and wish you a speedy recovery. Rest up!

Curry was nice, but a bit hard work. Poor dh is still in pain and so tired from not sleeping properly. I had to really chatter away and be really positive and bubbly all night, to keep him feeling upbeat. I was hoping to have a proper chat about IUI stuff and come to a final decision about when and where, but the restaurant was so full of people on works outings that it was too noisy for anything like that. We can do that at the weekend.

I'm trying to prepare myself for arrival of af. Keep telling myself that I haven't lost anything, and nothing has changed for the worse in my life, I just haven't gained anything. I've decided to try and view it like the lottery (although I've never done that) - you do it thinking it would be great to win, but with no real expectation that you will, and so no real sense of disappointment when you don't win. The odds of getting pg seem to be about the same as winning the lottery too! I'm determined not to get upset and let af ruin these few days of sunshine that are coming - I love summer! 

Got to go now,
Take care everyone, I'm thinking of you all.
Emma, xxx


----------



## AnnieR

Afternoon All

Sorry I've not replied sooner. I've actually been busy at work for a change!

Feeling much happier today. AF still isn't in full flow, just spotting still. Feels like I'm carrying a bowling ball down there though! Ready to tackle the "S" test and move forward to IUI, possibly with another natural go in the meantime? At least if it fails next month I should have IUI to go straight into - although I know that doesn't guarantee me anything. And no Emma - I don't think they can do it underwater, so definitely need a go on dry land!!!!

Emma - How are you doing today? Shame it was so busy in the curry house last night, but hope you enjoyed your evening regardless!?! Any signs of a BFP yet? Still got everything crossed for you

Donna - Are you feeling any better today?  Ready to fight another month with me. Can't do it without you on board to get me through that horrible 2ww! How was work today - any better?

Polly - Still sending lots of positive recovery vibes to you!


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## emmadaffodil

Good afternoon

Annie - I am very well, thank you. Af hasn't arrived yet but it could be today or tomorrow really; I really hope my body isn't going to play tricks on me and make af abnormally late in arriving - I don't think I could bear that. I am trying to stay positive and not think about things, but it's not really working and every slightest twinge has me rushing to the bathroom. Why do we put oursleves through this?! 

I have a busy day tomorrow, so no time to mope as and when af arrives. I was planning to drown my sorrows in a large glass or two of wine at the weekend, but as dh can't drink at the moment that seems mean.

Sounds like your af will be horrendous when it gets in full flow!

Yesterday evening _was_ fun, it just wasn't really the ideal situation for deep and meaningful conversations. It is our anniversary on Monday, but we haven't really made any plans yet. What on earth can I get that is bronze (don't think he'd go for some fake tan)? I don't think we've bought gifts before but I really want to do something special this year. I have been dropping hints about earrings! Not sure about bronze earrings though. This is why I know I'll be a BFN. It would be too good to be true to get a BFP on Monday - like something out of a film script not real life.

Got to go. There are weeds demanding my attention at the allotment.

Emma, xxxx


----------



## AnnieR

Oh God, how perfect would it be to get a BFP on Monday!!! Oh I so hope it happens like that for you Emma - it would be amazing!

I feel nervous waiting with you! You have got to keep me posted this weekend!


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## emmadaffodil

It isn't going to happen. Can really feel af coming now, but I'm fine. I've found one good reason for it not to be my month - a child conceived now (or 2 weeks ago) would have its birthday in March. I'm sure summer is a better time for a birthday - outdoor birthday parties and all that. I'd prefer them not to be born in June though because then they'd have exams on their birthday. I'm really clutching at straws here!

Got to go and do some cooking. I'll keep you posted. I really appreciate the kind wishes and positive vibes, but feel tomorrow will bring disappointment.

Emma, xxxxx


----------



## Donna Taylor

Hi everyone,

Feeling better today, a few things may have changed at work looks like I am going into a new room so feels like a fresh start.
Hope to try sex again this weekend so that we are ready for bms next weekend when I ovulate. Don't worry annie I will def be with you again on 2ww.

sorry post is so breif I will pop back but have to go to collect my mum as she is coming round to help me weed the garden! I absoultly hate gardening but having a BBQ in a couple of weeks for my b'day so want it looking really nice.

catch you later, hoping I'll get a tan today to

Donna xx


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## AnnieR

Greetings All!!!

What a lush day! I've just got back from a session of accupuncture. It was soooo good. I feel heaps better for going. She could tell just from my pulses that I had been feeling a bit down lately and thinking about my Dad so she gave me some treatment to make tomorrow less painful!

Now I'm stuck at home for a few hours today. DH is at work and won't be home til 9pm. I am going to a friends today - but not til late this afternoon. I know it's a gorgeous day but I think I'm gonna catch up with the housework and maybe watch a cheesey movie!

Donna - Glad you're feeling a bit better about things and happy to have my 2ww buddy back on board. 

Emma - It ain't over yet and I'm not giving up til you tell me AF is there for sure! Like what you're saying about having a summer baby. I'd like to have one born around April or May so I can have the whole summer at home on mat leave!!!

Have a gorgeous day in the sunshine everyone xxx


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## emmadaffodil

Evening all,

What a lovely sunny day  . I am such a sun worshipper (although I do slip, slap, slop, I hasten to add). I've spent the day shopping (only food), dog training and reading in the sun, and very nice it has been too. i'm ravenous now, and plan to eat masses of salad this evening. I'm sure hot weather is supposed to make people less hungry, but it is the opposite for me; actually, I think everything makes me hungry.

Af still hasn't got going. How can my body do this to me? I've read somewhere that when you want to be pg sometimes the body pretends it is pg for a while.  I'm at the stage now where I'm avoiding going to the bathroom for fear of what I'll find when I get there. Dh p****d me off yesterday. I told him af was coming and he said well, if it takes someone my age on average 12 months to concieve, then it was highly unlikely that I'd conceive on the first month of proper bms. Then he said, I don't see why you're upset if you don't really expect it to happen. That's not the point! Mind you, he was tired and grumpy. Luckily he got a proper night's sleep last night and is much chirpier today. 

Glad you are both having a lovely weekend. Donna - how are your tomatoes doing? How was weeding - definately the worst bit of gardening. 
Annie  - how could you stay inside on such a lovely day? Has af kicked in properly yet?

Enjoy the rest of the day.
Emma, xxxx


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## Donna Taylor

Hello,

Emma, sadly 2 of the tomato plants are def def dead  still got one struggerling on though but I am not holding out much hope that it will servive. think maybe the cats are weeing in it.
I hate gardening full stop, thats probably why everything I try to grow dies. I like to sit in a nice garden but just don't have the time to put in the hard work needed. lucky for me my mum was round to help so I didn't do much.

Annie, yeap all on track for round 2 of bms! I should ovulate on saturday so plan to have bms on thur, fri sat and sunday but we will see how we go. DH has a presentation for the under 10's football team he manages on friday so not sure if we'll manage bms.

tried sex again today and it was fine, still not enjoyable for me. I usulayy reach climax before we try to insert as I have found this helps so the actuall penetration feels more like something I do to bring DH to climax but at this stage I am happy with that. it is still functional btu again at this stage I am happy with that too. I think it will take a few months for me to completly enjoy it and not think abotu it. it still feels uncomfortable which obviously doesn't help with the enjoyment factor.

All in all things are good in the sex department.
beginning to worry though about silly things, are we doing it right? is he in the right place? is the sperm where it should be? is enough going in? if none leaks out does that mean we weren't in properly as none went in? you know thinhs like that!!!

Wheres polly the sex queen when you ned her!!
all joking aside, I hope all went well for you and you are feeling ok? hope to see you back on here very soon. xx

Donna xx


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## Donna Taylor

P.s

Emma, If you need to (which it is looking like you will) when are you going to test? when was AF due? fri?
I am so excited for you, I have everything crossd for you that it will be good news. especially with your weding anniversary on monday!


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## AnnieR

Morning All

Has anyone else got their clothes clinging to them!!!! I am HOT! Nothing to really report today. AF still hasn't got going yet. I was started to get worried, then I remembered that I think we had this conversation with me last month Didn't I have this worry before and it got going eventually? I'm thinking of giving natural progesterone cream a go. If I can get my hands on some in time. Think you have to start it on certain days.

Emma - This is getting rather exciting. Tempted to do a test yet? You absolutely could be pg on your first time of bms.

Donna - I totally know what you mean about bms. I panic after everytime that I haven't done it right, that dh wasn't in properly, that the wigglies didn't get in there etc etc etc! Polly usually puts me straight! 

Polly - Hope all is well with you and that you are recovering well.

Oooh  - forgot to tell you. My friend who was pg with twins gave birth to 2 boys yesterday. Can't wait to see them!

DH has just left for the day with his parents. They've gone to Bristol to watch the England cricket match. BORING! However I'm now home alone - again! What to do?!?!?!


----------



## Donna Taylor

Morning all,

Isn't weather gorgeous! maybe a little to hot though, I am about to lay in the garden in my bikini! really want a nice tan, especially as we are not going away this year  

Annie I am sure you was in a similar situation last month to, do you usually have cycles like that? is it the clomid that messes you up?
what does the cream do? how does it help? would it help me do you think?
I take it you are not using clomid this month?

Emma, how are you doing? have you gone completly insane yet? you did sound rather clam about it all yesterday. praying for you and a  

Polly hope you are well  

off in the garden for me  

Take care Donna xx


----------



## emmadaffodil

Hello,

I posted earlier, but the post vanished again - what am I doing wrong?! It is a BFN for me this month, I'm afraid  . Af arrived during the night. I am fine(ish) about it, as I truly didn't expect anything else. Will I ever manage a miracle? Somehow or other (if I can remember how to do it) I will to have lots and lots of bms this month so that my insides are swimming with wrigglies! 

Donna -sorry about the tomatoes. They are very tricky things. Cat wee is terrible for plants, so it could be that. I wish I could covert you to greenfingeryness! I wish I had the confidence to wear a bikini, or just a bikini top. Mind you, my garden is very overlooked. I've been out in the sun all day in a vest top and have got a ridiculous red patch on my back where I couldn't quite reach with the sunscreen! 
I love all your smileys today.

Annie - are you still going to see Elton? Have a good old sing-a-long for me. Af for you does sound like a repeat of last month. Perhaps your tube test might give a clue as to why things are as they are? Is there any chance that you could be pg and that what you've had is spotting?

Polly - hope the op went well and you are recovering nicely. Is dh pampering you? Have you got a few days off work?

Take care everyone and enjoy the rest of the sunshine,
Emma, xxxxxx


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## Donna Taylor

Emma,

so so sorry it hasn't worked for you either   for you and DH. However you are feeling now it does begin to feel better ish after a few days, you haven;t doen anything wrong and our time will come. Annie, you, polly and me will all be preg soon and looking back wondering what we made such a fuss over.
as Annie said its does take 'normal' couples ttc a few months so there is still time for all of us.

Dh and I have decided to try to have bms evryday next week!  so there is plenty there ready and wanting for ovulation on sat or sunday! 
really hoping it works!

Emma come on here and let it all out if you need to, you can always scream at us 

  

Donna xxx


----------



## pollyhoping

Hi everyone

I'm just quickly logging in, sorry to hear that you have had such a case of the blues, Donna, and that you got a BFN, Emma, and that nothing definitive has happened for you Annie.

My op went OK, I think that although the consultant was fairly restrained in what he said, he looked pleased with himself, and seems to think that he did a good job. It is down to me now to keep the scarring to a minimum with dilators, tampons and sex.

Came out yesterday and was doing fine until about midnight, when I started violent vomiting and didn't stop til after 5 this morning. Eventually at about 4 I asked DH to phone the hospital, as the painkillers they had given me were different from the ones I had in hosp. Finally at about 5, we spoke to a really nice doc from NHS direct, who asked loads of questions, and decided that it was mere food poisoning! We had stopped off near home for a sandwich at a garden centre, and as it was really hot yesterday...

Anyway, so I have had only ice to eat/drink most of the day, and have just had a piece of white (yuk) toast. Needless to say, I haven't had any pain killers at all, and although I'm "stinging" down there, I'm doing OK. Even got the dilators out this morning, although it took a bit of courage. I was in real danger of having a major freak-out, and it really helped to remember about what you have all been through and that I wasn't alone. So thanks everyone!

But I have wimped out as far as using a tampon today, with the pain killer sitn, although he did say not to panic if I couldn't. I'm seeing him again on Thursday, so he will be able to deal with any early scar tissue then. 

So that's me, feeling pretty icky, but don't know whether it is the foodpoisoning/dehdraytion or the op. Or both! And this heat is NOT helping!!

take care all

Polly


----------



## Donna Taylor

Polly,

Glad to here op went well, sorry to hear about the food poisoning what rubbish timing the last thing you need, with op and heat.
Hope your feeling much better soon.
I think you are amazing to have even looked at the dilators so soon after coming out of hospital especially with you be so poorly so well done you! you really are a star! 

hope to hear more from you in next few days.

wishing you a speedy recovery
take care

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil

Good morning,

Polly - your poor thing! Hope you are feeling a bit better today. I'm amazed you were even thinking of using the dilators straight away. Have they suggested that you need to insert things straight away as part of the healing process? I hope you are able to eat something today and are resting properly. At least it should be a bit cooler today.

Donna - I think your plan is a good one, and I'm hoping to do the same myself. I think I'll be needing lots of tips from you all as the time gets nearer. I'm not going to attempt anything until af is over. I still can't decide whether or not to do IUI. I know the chances of conceiving with IUI, although low, are higher than with bms, but what you only have one go at IUI per month and could have lots of goes at bms. I'm so confused! Donna, did you get a GP referral to Guys or self-refer. I'm worried that if I go to my GP she'll say that I should give BMS a few months first.

Annie - hope you are OK and had a lovely weekend.

Have a good Monday. Donna - I hope work isn't too stressful this week.

Emma, xxxxxxx


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## AnnieR

Good Morning Everyone

Sir Elton was amazing last night!!! Lulu was his support act and although I'm not a huge fan of hers, I have to say she was pretty bloomin good too. The atmosphere was fantastic. Everyone was up dancing and singing. Very very nice day - hence why I wasn't around much yesterday!

I woke up with a pounding headache this moning. I couldn't physically get out of bed let alone contemplate getting dressed for work. I took a couple of nurofen (luckily keep a stash in my bedside cabinet) and went back to sleep for 2 hours! Was woken up by DH calling to say he couldn't get through to my office to tell them I wasn't going in!!!! Was just dozing back off and the doorbell rang - courtesy car being delivered. Seriously - can people not be left in peace when they're ill?

Emma - So sorry AF arrived    Everything Donna said to you is right - you didn't do anything wrong and it will be your time soon. You could give bms another few goes before IUI - although it might mean you get another natural go in before IUI anyway?

Donna - Go steady with the bms everyday! You might water the wrigglies down!!! How did the tanning go at the weekend? I can never relax enough in my garden to sit in the sun. I hate grass ( ) . It's just not the same as a white sand beach with someone bringing me cocktails!!! Now that's where I can worship - and boy do I!!! 
Don't know why periods have gotten like this, they never used to be. It used to spot for a day and then get going. Not sure what it is. The progesterone cream is like a more natural form of clomid as I understand it. Women use it for all sorts of things like menopause and iregular cycles. Just helps maintain levels in your body and keep things ticking along nice and often.

Polly - Welcome Home! So pleased to hear that everything seems to have gone pretty well. How incredibly brave of you to give dilators a go   . Can't believe you might have food poisoning!!! That's just so mean after what you've been through this week. Hope that passes real soon.
It's great to have you back with us Polly and you know where to come if you want any support during your road to recovery xxxx

Have a lovely day everyone. I'm just going to curl up on my sofa and sit in the dark for a while!!!!


----------



## emmadaffodil

Hello again,

Annie - poor you. I hope you feel better soon. Perhaps it was the after effect of too much sun and excitement yesterday. I'm so glad that you enjoyed seeing Elton though.
By the way, do you have the Dawson's Creek series 4 box set yet - I saw it this morning and thought of you. I vaguely thought you said you had 1 to 3. 

I went for some retail therapy this morning. I bought a couple of lovely tops in the LK Bennett sale and a pair of shorts. Decided yesterday that the world will not end if my legs are finally exposed, and I will be much cooler. I still bought the longest shorts in the shop though.  

Got to go now. Take care,
Emma, xxxxxxxx


----------



## AnnieR

Nope, no Dawsons series 4 yet. Must get that ordered!

AF has gone into full flow this afternoon and now I'm in agony. Maybe that's what the headache was all about this morning!?!


----------



## emmadaffodil

Hello,

Annie - you are suffering today, aren't you. Poor you . Hope things get better soon. Looks like we'll be bms/2ww buddies this month, as our af appears to be at the same time.

DC4 is very heavily discounted on Amazon, by the way. I have such a backlog of DVDs - Dallas and The West Wing box sets. Somehow it seems wrong to sit indoors watching them in summer.

I have had the dullest afternoon - defrosting the freezer and tackling the ironing mountain. I _hate_ ironing so do it in bulk every 2 or 3 weeks.

Polly - hope you're feeling a bit better now.
Donna - hope work was OK and you are ready for action with dh this evening!!!

Emma, xxxx


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## Donna Taylor

Evening all,

Polly, hope you are feeling better?

Annie, what a day you have ahd, hope you are feeling better? I often get headaches when AF arrives so could well be why you had one this morning or could have been all the excitment and sun yesterday.

Emma, you sound good considering AF arrival, and good on you for buying shorts! your be buying skirts next!


wow what a day I have had..........

Long story but Dm at work walked out as the employed a second deputy above her which really isn't on!

They asked me if I'd work in baby room and be room leader!!! so got promoted! haven't sorted out pay rise yet though.
Felt really good that they choose me but when I thought about it more there wasn't really anyone else they could have chosen as I am the most qualified! but whatever the reason its time for me to really show them what I can do and Hopefully get some more £ which will help  me sort out my cash flow problems!!

Hope everyone is well

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil

Evening all,

Donna - well done on the promotion! It is very much deserved. 
Are you OK being surrounded by babies (I assume a baby room is full of babies)? Is it non-stop nappy changing? I'm glad that they appreciate you at work. I hope you get lots of extra money!

I am wearing my shorts at this very moment. I have been out and about wearing them, but only to walk the dogs and I didn't actually meet anyone. I have actually got a summer skirt now - I bought it a couple of weeks ago - but I haven't worn it yet . My problem (one of many) is that I am quite short, and skirts are the wrong length. I am way too old to wear the kind of skirt that could be mistaken for a belt (I sound like my dad now), but long skirts make me look even shorter.

I actually do feel fine about the arrival of af, apart from feeling bloated and having had bad hair days ever since it arrived. I got upset the day before, when I knew it was coming, so by the time it arrived I was over it. My big worry is the bms next time; I so badly want it to work and am terrified that I won't remember what to do!

I have drunk a glass of red wine this evening, my first for 3 weeks, and I feel most peculiar. It is my wedding anniversary today, but I haven't even seen dh. He went to work at 6 this morning, and is working late. Oh well.

Night, night everyone. Sleep tight (told you i was p****d).
Emma, xxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## pollyhoping

Donna
- well done on the promotion, you show em, girl!!    

Annie, did you have a headache or a migraine. To me the hot noisy (enjoyable) day sounds like a recipe for migraine, particularly if you got a bit dehydrated and AF was on the way. 

Emma
I know that you feel time is not on your side, but in fact it is still for a few years yet. If I were you (and I'm not, so I don't know all about it) I would work on the bms for a while - maybe even for a year - before going onto IUI. You are the only one to decide, but if you have no reason to think that you have IF problems, and you are getting over the Vag problems, isn't it probable that you will get pg fairly soon? 

I am feeling much better today thank you. I went into work this morning, as I had a couple of things I wanted to get done. All that happened is that my emails collapsed and it took me all day to figure out why (reached the Outlook limit!!), and fix it. So my plan to do the two or three bits of work and then come home didn't work out. I felt a bit rough this morning, but much better after lunch, although I had a nap when I got in. 

Thanks for all your praise about the dilators! Made me feel dead brave! The reality is that if I don't use them lots over the next few weeks/months the surgery will have been wasted. I need to stop the area where the septum was cut away from sticking to itself (ick, sorry) or scarring & puckering in a way that pulls it all back into the middle, so making a kind of hourglass shaped vagina. The consultant did say that it had become so bad that he was amazed that I had managed to menstruate at all. So not much chance for the wrigglers! I did put a large tampon in last night, but I couldn't face replacing it this morning after removing it, as it was too sore. I'm glad that I tried the dilators beforehand, as although I am still worried that I am not getting them in far enough, I do know that they are going in a lot further than last week! Sorry, I hope this isn't too icky. 

Right, I'm off to do my "homework".

Take care all

Polly


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## AnnieR

Morning All

I'm feeling much betetr today thank-you and I'm back at work. Well, had to come in today really as it's annual bonus day - hoorah! Not that it means much again this year as it will all be going to the architect!
AF is quite heavy flow today. Didn't have the time nor the inclination to put a tampon in this morning, but I might try and be brave tonight when I get home.
Arguing with myself right now about taking Clomid again this month. This would be the last lot and then I'd be totally out of stock. If I don't take it I might not ovulate or I might have a long cycle. On the other hand I'm planning to start IUI anyway so what's the point!?!?! - see my dilemma!

Emma - How's your head this morning 1 glass!!!! - honestly! I hope to be your 2ww buddy this month, but we'll have to wait and see if I ovulate or not.

Donna- Congrats on the promotion!!! - about time too I say. Hope they give you a big fat pay rise! Any joy with bms yet?

Polly - What are you doing going into work!!!! I feel compelled to give you a bit of a telling off. You've just had some nasty surgery, so please give yourself the proper time to recover. Step away from the office, e-mail and any other form of communication and just ...relax! Let someone else take care of everything for a while. 
Very well done on the tampon though!

Have a lovely day everyone xxx


----------



## emmadaffodil

Good morning one and all,

Polly - I can't believe that you went into work! Well done on the tampon and dilators. What a star you are! Have you managed to get all of them in part of the way? Sorry if this is a strange question but if the consultant was surprised that you managed to menstruate, where did he think it would go if it couldn't come out in the 'normal' manner? I hope you're feeling a little less sore this morning.

Annie - I'm glad you're feeling better today. Well done on the bonus too. How are the extension plans coming along?
I really don't know what the answer is with the clomid dilemma. Go with your gut instinct. 
You should try and give tampons another go - you'll feel so pleased with yourself if you do. Ooh sorry, I don't mean to sound so bossy!

Donna - any joy with bms?

Polly - I think you're right about bms. I really would like to get to a stage where I am confident that sex will work properly and, ideally, enjoy it too! There is a danger with IUI that the incentive to practice having sex will be gone - with bms at least it makes us try on a few days of the month - and I could easily drift along not making progress. Alternatively IUI would ensure that everything is out in the right place at the right time. Plus dh's sperm may not be the best in the world (2 tests at the local hospital said he had low motility but the consultant at L&DH said they measure it in a peculiar way there and actually it was fine - I don't know what to believe), and IUI increases the chances of conceiving. It is so difficult to know what is best.

On a completely different subject, we are probably going to put our house on the market soon. Do you think I should paint all the inside walls white (or magnolia), as suggested by all those property shows on TV? Place your votes now.....

Have a good day everyone,
Emma, xxxxx


----------



## AnnieR

Morning Emma - I would say that if your walls aren't shocking shades then leave them as they are! 
I know exactly what you're saying about the bms/IUI thing. I've almost sort of given up with bms with the thought of oh well, I'm off for IUI soon so what's the point! I don't feel confident enough that we're doing it properly and I'm not confident that I am ovulating. At least with IUI I'll know that everything is definitely where it should be, when it should be! 
I will put a tampon in when I get home. It's silly of me not to. I mean I've done it before, what's stoping me now - laziness?!?!

S day next Tuesday. I'm feeling a bit nervous.


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## emmadaffodil

Annie - I can definately see the point of IUI for you if your periods are all over the place and there is a question mark over ovulation. 

I hope you do have a go with tampons when you get home; you know that you can do it! You'll feel better for it, and annoyed with yourself if you don't (well I would anyway). Plus it will become a really big deal next month (if you're not pg). It really does get easier each month. I've upgraded in size this month, although af is much lighter than normal, just to prove to myself that I could do it. I've even had a couple of goes without luvricant, although that felt uncomfortable.

You'll get through next Tuesday somehow. You've still got a few days to practice on dry land yet. When you go,will they let you put the speculum in yourself?

I'm off outside now. Take care, Emma, xxxxxxx


----------



## Donna Taylor

Hello,

Just a quicky from me,

Polly you really are a star, dilators tampons and work after what I would girl major surgery!!!!!! well done you

Annie, not sure about the clomid. is it still in date? I don't think a OPK will give you a serge if your not ovulating so if you use them again atleast your be sure of when you have ovulated. sorry that isn't much help is it.

Emma, My advice would be not to rush into IUI, it is not a pleasent experience (sorry but I am going to be honest) I think you have a danger of ruining all your hard work with vag and sex. I am no doctor and only you know in yourself how you feel about sex and things but from talking to you on here I really think IUI could do more harm than good for you at this stage. I would suggest a few more months of bms so you are realy comforatbale and in control of it that way IUI hopefully wont set you back on the sex front.
Hope that all makes sense, and sorry for forcing my opioion on you its only because I know what IUI can be like.
And I know your not niaive or stupid but as you know IUI is expensive and gives no gaurantees

as for me didn't manage bms last night as reall wasn't in the mood, have managed it tonight though! yipeeee!
not sure if will manage it again this week but will def be doing sat, sun and monday as I ovulate!

Thinking of asking If i can apply for the second deputies job tommorrow!!!!!!!!! I'll keep you informed.

Hope you are all well and sorry for this post being rushed.

Donna xxx

p.s emma, hope you didn't mind me adding my 2 pence worth?


----------



## AnnieR

Morning All

I did the tampon thing when I got home last night. It still doesn't feel right inside me, still like I've got an air bubble up there!!! The one I did put in was clearly not big enough as after about 1 hour I felt wet. Tampon had soaked right through and was leaking! I didn't bother with another one and used a pad. It was quite heavy flow last night -the type when it sometimes feel like you're letting a bit of wee out (eeww!). Anyway, I did it and it wasn't that bad. I do need to practice with the speculum though. I'm thinking that if she uses loads of lube next week I might be alright for the inserting and then I'll just need to breathe through the test bit - or grit - or cry!

Emma- How are you? Did you enjoy the sunshine yesterday?

Donna  - Fab idea about asking about the job. Let us know how you get on. Well done on bms again! You sound all set to go at the weekend and ready to make baby Taylor!

Polly - Hope you're resting at home and recovering well xxx

p.s - decided against the clomid this month so we'll have to see what happens!


----------



## emmadaffodil

Good morning,

Another beautiful sunny day!

Donna - I don't mind your 2 pence worth at all - quite the opposite. Your advice is invaluable, so don't hold back! You know what it is like to go through IUI and to have vag, and you know me (insofar as you can know someone you've never actually met), so you are very well placed to offer advice. I think you are right. I should give conventional bms a go for a few months before resorting to IUI. I think the BFNs from IUI would be even harder to bear because I would have invested so much emotion (and money) in them. At least with bms I can remind myself that even if the outcome is a BFN I will be making progress with sex (hopefully). Although I started all this primarily wanting a child, I now feel that it isn't the only thing that matters; I would like to be able to have sex for many years to come and enjoy it! 

I am seeing the gynaecologist at the start of July. I'm not sure why because I now have the whole set of dilators. Perhaps he wants to check that I have managed sex etc. I am going to ask him whether IUI would significantly increase my chances of getting pg, and how long I should try bms for before resorting to IUI.

Donna - well done on the bms practice yesterday. Knowing that you are managing it gives me a real incentive to have a go myself!
You should definately ask about the job - you have nothing to lose. Good luck!

Annie - don't feel too bad about the tampon. Perhaps the flow is just too heavy to make them practical this month? Apologies if this is a silly question (and I don't mean to seem patronising or doubting of your tampon skills) but are you pushing it in far enough? I know that the first month I used them I didn't push it in quite far enough and it felt really uncomfortable, like I was walking on a spike or something! You will get through next week somehow, I have no doubt.

Polly - hope all is going well with the dilators and your recovery.

Take care everyone,
Emma, xxxxxx


----------



## AnnieR

Emma - You're not patronising at all and it's the first thing I thought of. I thought that might have been the problem last time, so last night I made sure I had it as far as I could without loosing my fingers up there! I'm wondering if I've got the angle all wrong!?!?! It doesn't feel like a spike as such. More like I need to manouvre it into a better position. I'll have another go tonight if flow is still looking enough. Seriously - what a weirdo! 

I wasn't brave enough to have a go without lubricant last night. I was so determined not to use any and then totally chickened out!

Just need to have a go with that speculum now.


----------



## emmadaffodil

Hello Annie,

Phew! I was worried that I might have said the wrong thing! 

There could be something in the angle thing. I know for sex and when using the larger dilators I have to get the angle just so or it is hopeless. For me, if I'm lying on my back, the correct way is to try and insert things at a 5 o'clock position, imagining that 12 o'clock is the ceiling and the clock is moving fclockwise from the ceiling towards my head (if that makes any sense at all).   My natural instinct was to try and shove things in at a 4 o'clock position though, and then it felt like hitting a brick wall. 
I know tampons are a bit different though because you probably aren't going to lie down to put them in. If you wiggle it around and try different angles it might just feel better though. 
Don't beat yourself up over it though, as I'm sure that will make the muscles spasm and everything will be a hundred times worse. I wouldn't worry about trying without lube either. I only did that because I needed to change one when I was out and about somewhere and forgot to bring any lube with me. 

Hope your day is OK apart from the tampon stress! Has your headache cleared up now?

Emma, xxxx
p.s. I am wearing a skirt today!


----------



## pollyhoping

Hi all

It's great, you all sound so upbeat and positive at the moment, what a change from last week!!

Donna, have you tackled them in work about the deputy job yet?

Emma, good idea to ask the gynae when you see him in July.

Annie, can I ask what kind of tampons you are using? I always found tampax compaq the easiest to use. If you are using lube, then the tampon needs to absorb that as well, so may not seem to work as well, whereas if af is at "worst", there is plenty to lubricate without adding any. But as you get towards the end, you could go back to using lube to be more comfortable.

Definitely the feeling of discomfort is due to not having got the tampon into the right place, you won't feel it at all, even the larger ones, if it is in the right place. If you feel like that, take it out, don't tough it out. if you can put another one in straight away, do, but if you need to wait for the discomfort to subside, then do that and try again in a couple of hours. It could feel quite different.

Sorry if I'm being bossy again!



emmadaffodil said:


> Polly - Have you managed to get all of them in part of the way? Sorry if this is a strange question but if the consultant was surprised that you managed to menstruate, where did he think it would go if it couldn't come out in the 'normal' manner? I hope you're feeling a little less sore this morning.
> 
> Have a good day everyone,
> Emma, xxxxx


Emma, I guess that it would stay in the uterus and flow back through the fallopian tubes, which causes endometriosis. Before it sounds too yucky, that does apparantly happen anyway to about 90% of us to some degree, but it's just that I was getting to the point of that being the only way!

I have been using the dilators twice a day and have had a tampon in every night (although I got up in the night once to take it out). I am a bit worried that I am not getting to the right place, but I am seeing the consultant in the morning, so he can put my mind at rest. It's more about anxiety to get it right than anything else.

I'm afraid that I have been naughty and been to work (until 9.30 last night - I know - that's very bad!!) but left at 5 tonight. I've been working really hard to get some investment in our company, even though the timing was lousy, and finally we signed it all up today.     . It's been quite hard to hammer out the deal, because it is so novel, but it's gonna work. Our workload is going to plummet, and to make sure that it does, part of the deal is that DH and I only work 4 days a week. That might take a couple of months to kick in properly, but it will be great when it does.

I will make sure I have a rest at the weekend, but really I am OK, the painkillers are good, (wayhay!!!) and DH is looking after me well.

Take care everyone

Polly


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## Donna Taylor

Hi all,

Polly, well done well done well done! what more can I say!

Annie, does sound like tampon is in the wrong place I did this for months when I first used them and still have trouble some months now. I still hate using them!

Emma, sound like you have a good paln I'd hold of and get gyneas advice and you never know you be pregnant by then anyhow! (lets keep the positive vibe going!)

No more BMS as yet but will try again tommorro, anything we have got up there this week could get me preg as it lives for 5-7 days in the body! so if I ovulate on sunday there should be some ready and waiting in the right place!

Asked about job but haven't had a definate anwser yet so I'll keep you informed!

Sorry posts are so quick but so busy with work, bms and my dad is in hospital so got a lot on!
I will put aside some time for you all at the weekend I promiss

Night all

Donna xx


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## AnnieR

Morning Everyone!

Wow - everyone's got alot going on! Well my update is that I tried a tampon again last night and had 100% success. Was definitely getting the angle wrong, although not altogether wrong. I think I needed to aim upwards a bit more. Anyway I think i've sussed it now. Thanks for the advice Emma, it made perfect sense and funnily enough was pretty much what I did last night! More 5pm and up! I've still only been using them at home and inserting them whilst lying on the bed. Think I shall have a go standing up next time.

Emma - Glad your legs have been released from captivity! Headache is completely cleared thank-you - must have been the excitement of being so close to Sir Elton   
Will your legs be out enjoying the sunshine today? I've got the afternoon off to go car hunting with DH, but that seems such a waste. I might ask him to get the sun loungers out of the loft (shows how often we get to sit in the sun) and sit in the garden with him.

Polly - oooh you naughty girl!!!! 9:30!!!! I hope now that you've pulled this deal off you won't be doing crazy hours like that for a while. Congratulations on the deal. Sounds like you put alot of hard work into it.
Thanks for the tampons advice. It is the compax I'm using. I think you're right about the lube thing. I think I use it like a security blanket!!!
Well done on using the tampons and dilators and hope all goes well with the Consultant today.

Donna - Well done you for asking about the job. I shall keep my fingers crossed that they give it to you. Hope you're enjoying all this bms!!! are you not finding it a bit strenuous in this hot weather  

Anyhoo. Need toc ram some work in before I leave. Check in with you all later xxx


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## emmadaffodil

Good morning!

Annie - well done on the tampon!  It must make you feel happier to have it sorted out? Are your af long or are mine short? You started before mine but mine is already over. Must get on with to bms practice now (well not right now). I wish I could see it more as fun and less like homework. 
You must get the sunloungers out and enjoy the last few hours of sunshine - i think it is due to rain tomorrow and Sat. Isn't it a lot of effort to put sunloungers into a loft?! I was struggling to put a suitcase up into my loft yesterday.

My legs will be out and about in the world today, although I collided with some brambles this morning and they are covered in scratches and lumps - most unappealing. I also managed to fall in a pond this morning, and felt very silly (and wet) walking home. I hope the day will be less accident prone. I always get _really_ clumsy just as af finishes for some reason.

Donna - I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you on the job front. Good for you for asking! Hope your dad will be OK.

Polly - goodness, you are busy! Well done on the deal - sounds like it is a just reward for all your hard work. It'll be great for you to have more time with dh and for yourself. I hope all goes well with the consultant today. Sounds like you're doing really well.

Take care everyone and have a lovely day,
Emma, xxxxxxxx


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## AnnieR

Yep - I definitely feel alot better for sorting out the tampon situation. I was beginining to think I had something else wrong with me.
My af was definitely long.Well in so much as I had spotting/dark discharge for days and it didn't get flowing til Monday. Maybe Monday was actually day 1 Anyway it's pretty much dried up now, so on to bms. That'll please DH no end.

How the 'eck did you manage to fall in a pond? Was is a bit of a Bridget Jones trip over type moment? I'm sorry Emma, but I did chuckle.

Funny you should say about being clumsy around af time. I dropped my bottle of water twice in succession in the car park this morning.But then that's nothing new for me. I was born clumsy. I'm always knocking into things, banging my head, stubbing toes, burning hands on the oven, walking into things - the list is endless. When I turned 12 I had this almighty growth spurt in the summer and grew about 6 inches in 3 months and my feet grew a bit fast too and I was really skinny. I was this really tall gangly thing that looked alot like Bambi on ice. It was just awful and although I'm now far more in proportion I never lost the clumsiness.

Now there's an image to leave you with today!


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## emmadaffodil

One of the fields near to me has a few dew ponds and very long grass. I was walking happily across the field with my dogs, as I do twice a day, lost in thought. As the summer goes on the ponds dry up. I wasn't looking where I was going and suddenly thought, ooh it's a bit wet and muddy underfoot. I moved to avoid the wet and muddy patch, lost my balance and fell over, on my bottom into a pond! Doh! 
Five minutes later, keen to get home and avoid other dog walkers, I decided to take a sort cut through the woods rather than stick to the footpath. I merrily turned a corner and collided with very prickly brambles! 

I am clumsy all the time too, just even more so at this time. I used to be a bit paranoid about it until a friend of mine said he thought it was wonderful because everything came to life in my hands, and the most mundane items became magical living things! I went through a phase of colliding with lefthand walls, then discovered it was because my eyesight had deteriorated in one eye and I'd no sense of balance. 

No further mishaps so far, although the washing machine did make a horrible noise and stop working. My heart sank, and I thought here's the next disaster, but I managed to fix it. I think I'll avoid driving anywhere today though to be on the safe side.

Enjoy the rest of the day,
Emma, xxxxxxxxx


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## Donna Taylor

Evening all,

Polly, how did you get on today?

Annie, i think day 1 is the day when AF is in full flow, thats what I was alwasy told when having IUI.

Bms is such a chore and I really hate to say it but it really is especially in this heat.

As if I didn't have enough going on with work, my dad and bms! DH got knocked of is bike this morning, got completly run over   but luckily he only suffered a broken elbow! which is lucky considering what else could have happened but still means he is off work for atleast 3 weeks and he wont get paid  hopefully we are able to claim on drivers insurance for a new bike and lose of earnings but waiting to hear back from them.
never rains just pours eh!

So not sure if there will be any more bms for us this month! DH is keen to try as he is desperate for me to be preg but not sure how practical it will be with a broken elbow! hopefully the merms we have got up there so far this week will saty alive and be enough to fertalize my egg if we don't manage anymore bms over the weekend.

goodnight from a very tired, hot and bothered, stressed out

Donna xxxx take care

emma, lol at yuou falling in the pond, sorry   really needed a giggle though so thanks


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## emmadaffodil

Evening all,

So glad I've managed to make everyone chuckle. Let's see what antics tomorrow brings!

Donna - your poor dh. I hope he'll be OK. Is the elbow in plaster - that would be horribly itchy in this heat. These things really shake you up don't they? Was it a bicycle or motorbike? (My dh cycles and has had 3 accidents in the past 11 years). Not ideal for bms. Hope he feels better soon - and you too. Any news from work?

Polly - hope today went OK.

Annie - did you get a nice car? Did you get to sit on your sunlounger?!

Night, night everyone,
Emma, xxx


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## AnnieR

Morning All

Emma - Still no car I'm afraid. We had a look round a few garages in the area and saw some nice ones that all had something not quite right - mileage alot of the time for dh. Colour for me! So still searching.
No sun lounger either. We went to a local pub and sat outside for a while having a bite to eat then headed home where we were greeted by some friends visiting. And although the weather was gorgeous last night - we went to the cinema  Saw Batman Begins - rather good film if anyone was considering seeing it. And Batman's a bit on the tasty side too!

Donna - So sorry to hear about DH's accident. A broken elbow cannot be pleasant. I think you're right and you should be able to claim back loss of earnings through the insurance. Funnily enough I had a letter from our insurance company on Saturday asking us if we wanted to claim. 
Good luck with the bms this weekend. It might be a bit awkward with one of you having a broken elbow, but it'll be fun trying!!!! 

Thanks for the AF advice. If day 1 is full flow that I can't go for my smear on Tuesday, it's too early. I'll need to reschedule til the end of the week or early the week after. At least it gives me a bit of time to get friendly with Mr Speculum!

Well I have plans to clean the house tonight in preperation. We have our friends children staying with us tomorrow night. Last time we had them they were alot younger and we were up all night with them. Our fault entirely as we'd put them in the same room together and the eldest woke the youngest with a request for the loo. He then thought it was a game and stayed awake til 7am! We were at the park by 8! We fell back into bed and slept for hours after they'd been picked up. It ain't as easy as it looks! Hopefully now they're a little bit older it won't be so bad. We're going to take them to a play area tomorrow night and try and tire them out!!!

Wishing you all a lovely day xxxxxxx


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## emmadaffodil

Hello,

Annie - your weekend plans sound fun (apart from the cleaning)! 
We're planning to see Batman returns tomorrow (I vetoed dh's first choice of Star Wars).
It is a shame that you have to delay the smear when you were psyched up for it.

Donna - hope dh is feeling a bit better today and that your day is less stressful.

Polly - hello! Hope you are OK.

No accidents for me this morning, so far. I'm really tired today  - my neighbours were having a blazing row and throwing things at the walls until the wee small hours! They argue like people in a soap opera -  I didn't think that happened in real life until they moved in a few months ago. Let's hope we can move soon!

Much as I like the warm weather and sunshine I'm hoping things will cool down today. It is far too hot at night for bms and bms practice!

Have a lovely Friday everyone. 
Emma, xxxxx


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## emmadaffodil

I've been practicing with my dilators today. It's been a week since I last tried. Number 4 really hurt - tearing/burning sensation - but still it went in. I used lube but I think I'm too dry after af. 
Going to watch Dallas DVDs and eat chocolate cake now as my reward. 
It is pouring with rain here.

Have a good weekend everyone,
Emma, xxxxxxxx


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## AnnieR

Good Evening All

Emma - Don't mention anything yummy. I am back on my health kick. I tried a pair of last summer trousers on and they were a bit tight. I was mortified and ran straight to Sainsbury's and stocked up on fresh fruit. I can't go to Zante like that!!! 6 weeks to loose a few lbs and get back in my summer clothing.

You've inspired me this evening after giving your dilators a go, to get my friend Mr Speculum out and give him a test drive. It's been a while and I'm even feeling brave enough to give dry land a go. Failing that I might wait for DH to get home. Between you, me, Polly, Donna and whoever else might be reading this - I'm feeling a tadge bit frisky  

Just cooking myself some wholeweat organic pasta (yes it's as boring as it sounds) and then going to get stuck into that cleaning. Hope to get that all done in time to sit down and watch Big Brother.

Have a lovely evening xxx


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## emmadaffodil

Wholewheat pasta - Yuk! It tastes about as yummy as cardboard. If I were you I'd eat some normal pasta and just clean a bit more furiously - it'll burn off the extra calories. I'm having normal pasta myself this evening (not trying to rub it in honestly) with chillies and prawns, followed by lots of strrawberries and icecream. I've been eating so many strawberries lately (suppposed to be good for ttc).

I'm most interested that Mr Speculum is a Mr. My dilators are definately asexual. I'm quite fond of them, in their own way, but perhaps I'd like them even more if I could imagine them to be some hunky man. I definately prefer to admire them in their lovely box rather than to use them. I still feel quite sore from using number 4 earlier.

Enjoy your frisky evening Annie. None of that on the cards for me - dh is working very late to avoid having to go in at the weekend.

Emma, xxxxxxxxxxx


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## pollyhoping

Hi all

Sorry, worked late last night, and didn't log in. I know that I was naughty, not only did the consultant raise his eyebrows at me when he asked if I had managed to go back to work (but then, he didn't sign me off), but I am feeling very tired and tearful today. I have to go back in tomorrow morning, but I am definitely having the rest of the weekend off. I might get my sewing machine out on Sunday and make a nice bag for my dilators   (inspired by Emma)

The consultant was otherwise pleased with my progress, and needs to see me in anther two weeks. I'm getting quite averse to the dilators, but that might be because I am a bit more sore after the examination yesterday. Just have to grit my teeth, or whatever and get on with it.  

Emma - too funny about falling in the pond. Donna, sorry about DH's elbow. That sounds nasty and also quite a shock for you both. Annie, I hope you find a nice car soon. 

I forgot to tell you all that we got a new car last week - a Mazda MX5 convertable 2 seater. It's brilliant, and completely useless if we get pg, but if it tempts fate that'll be great, and if it doesn't, well... I was a bit shocked when DH suggested it, but then I thought why shouldn't we have something a bit different. Now it is definitely MY car!

Anyway take care everyone.

Polly


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## AnnieR

Morning All

Just a quckie, got a few errands to run before the Monsters get here!!!

Emma - Wholeweat pasta was yummy! Well alright, maybe not as nice as fresh pasta - but I feel better for it this morning. I was hoping to have lost half a stone overnight for it - alas no.
If felt kinda right to call my speculum Mr. No idea why, can't explain it. Maybe just one of my weird moments?!?! Didn't give him a go last night - went for the real thing instead -ooooohhh!!!

Donna - Have a lovely weekend matey. Forgert all about work and relax xxxx

Polly - Car sounds rather nice. We've got a MG and it's really fun. Not so much in the winter, but when that sun is out it's lush!!! Enjoy!

Have a great weekend everyone. Must dash and have a shower while I can still get in my bathroom!


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## emmadaffodil

Good morning!

Annie -  I'm glad you had fun with dh last night! Sorry for abusing your pasta. my pasta was a bit disappointing actually - the chillies weren't hot enough. I'm in a cooking mood today so I'm off to the kitchen soon to get into domestic goddess mode.

Polly - hope you feel a bit better today. I'm sure the dilators will get easier as you heal from the op. I hope you're not pushing yourself too hard with them. It sounds like you deserve a good rest this weekend. You can't be superwoman all the time.

Donna - hope you are OK (and dh).

Annie, Polly - I am sooooo jealous of your cars. I love cars and driving and am a sports car loving person too, but I've only got a Ford Puma. It's just not in the same league, although it is great fun to drive. I have no desire to drive a people carrier even when I do have children. 

Hope you all have a lovely weekend.
Emma, xxxxx


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## Donna Taylor

Afternoon everyone,

Polly I really hope you are having a rest this weekend? I am quite worried about all the stress and presure you are pointing on your self, don't push yourself to hard hun. you are more than allowed to be a bit weepy considering eveything, your be fine with the dilators just relax and it will all come together. promiss us you'll take some time this weekend for yourself! you deserve some pampering!

Haven't heard anything concrete back from work yet, the owner is all in a tiz because the nursery isn't full yet but the expansion only opened on monday so he really needs to calm down! we did take 23 children and now we can take 60 odd but he doesn't seem to realise that 40 children aren't just going to turn up over night! he is reluctant to give anyone a promotion at the mo as it means he will have to pay out more money!
Had an interesting chat with the manager though who said she is going to sign me up for a managment course on monday! thing is its a course you can only do if you hold a managment position so not sure what to read into that!
there is a level 3 or a level 4 management nvq, I can do level 3 because I am room leader but level 4 is for deputies and managers only and she said ''I'll sign you up for level 4'' so I'll just have to wait and see what monday brings!

being in babyroom does make mebroody (like I needed any help!) but been so busy this week haven't really had timt to stop and think about it!

Managed bms today so will hopefully have another try tommorrow when I should get a serge on the opk!

adn to my shock this am I actually kinda enjoyed sex when DH came it felt really nice! feel I have made a hudge step forward! my secret tip is to use a vibrator on your clit when dh is inside it take your mind right of the discomfort and you actually start enjoying it! that works for me because I am a very cliterol person ( sorry if tmi) but thought it may help you guys to.

Off food shopping now, and think I'll get soem strawberries if the help ttc

Check in again later

Donna xx


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## Donna Taylor

hi everyone,

hope you are all having a good weekend so far.

forgot to get any strawberries when we went shopping but did manage to pop some archers aqua into my trolly (fingered a little drink isn't going to stop me ttc) now on 2nd bottle and feel a little tiddeled and bit frisky  maybe there will be more bms after all  

Donna xx


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## Candy

New home this way peeps

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,31948.new.html#new


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