# new clinic / old clinic - advice please!



## sue93 (Jun 14, 2006)

hi there all of you - am in need of some advice..

I'm 43, had a m/c at 7 weeks 4 weeks ago after first attempt at ivf. I know it's early days yet but my way of coping seems to be planning my future strategy... 

I would do anything to avoid going thru the last few weeks again, so am thinking of going the PGS route (pre-implantation genetic testing, i think) to reduce the chance of miscarriage. Expensive but am planning on putting it on the mortgage (under home improvements...!).

My question is... Do I stick with my current clinic (Esperance in Eastbourne) on the basis that we had a success (albeit temporary) last time - and ask them to get the Lister to do the PGS for me (the Eastbourne clinic doesn't do it)? or do I move completely to the Lister for the whole thing as they have such a good reputation for us oldies?

In a way i'd love to stay with Eastbourne, I found the whole ivf process really stress-free (shockingly) and suspect this was a lot to do with the fact that it was an easy drive along the cost, rather than doing battle with trains into London (I'm in Brighton). I also feel like I know the staff there now and know the process etc. But also  know that the Lister has much better success rates...

Can't make my mind up.

(and call me an eternal foolish optimist, but is it possible to get p/g in the first month after m/c, by any chance?)

thanks in advance - hope you are doing ok nuala if you see this!

Sue
xx


----------



## druzy (Jan 25, 2006)

Hi Sue

I just wanted to offer you a bit of empathy but I'm afraid it doesn't necessarily help with your decision.

I think I'm probably in a very similar situation.  Just had IVF#3 and although positive, have had a pretty normal AF and a low HCG of 72.15 - testing HCG again tomorrow but even the consultant didn't look that hopeful.  Just hoping it's not ectopic now.

But that aside, if I go on to another IVF (which is in the balance as I may just go straight to DEs in Spain) I am in the same dilemna.  I too am at a small clinic local to me, 10 mins drive, easy parking, everyone is very nice, I feel I know them well and they are doing their best and are probably pretty good.  But I wonder about a second opinion from the Lister because of their reputation and experience.....

Have you been for a consultation at the Lister yet?  If not, then perhaps see how you feel after seeing them?  I have a little nagging feeling that if I do another with my own eggs I ought to move lock, stock and barrel to the lister, despite, like you, the longer train journies etc etc.  I've also thought about PGS.  My only doubt for us older ladies is that I did read that it isn't necessarily that helpful for older women as there are chromsomal abnormalities that can come out later in embryo development so PGS wouldn't necessarily pick that up at the early stage.  It may be worth discussed that with the Lister if you go.  And I stress, this is only something I have read somewhere on the internet, can't remember where, and you read all sorts of things about everything - don't you....

It's a hard decision, one doesn't want to go out of the frying pan into the fire but there again neither do you want to look back and think "if only...."

All the posts I have read on here seem to suggest that the Lister not only have a good reputation but that they treat you well too so maybe it will only be British Rail that gives you stress - mind you that's not to be underestimated!

Good luck with your decision.

Druzy xx


----------



## Shamrock63 (Jan 24, 2005)

Hi Sue

Sorry to hear your last IVF attempt resulted in m/c.  I can very much relate to your recent experience with the m/c, as the same thing happened to me also at 7wks in May 05.  I think the only thing any of us can try to be is as calm and stress free as possible during IVF (if at all possible!).  And therein lies the reason why I think I would make the decision to stay at the same clinic for a second shot at treatment and just use the Lister for your pre testing.  I suppose in theory they did achieve a successful pg for you and, like me last year, the mc was just unfortunate.

When I had my 2nd attempt at IVF in Jan/Feb 06 at the same clinic. They just tweeked things ever so slightly (stimmed me up a bit more slowly as I was on the verge of over stimming on 1st attempt) and tbh I felt in safe hands,  I think the only good reason for changing clinic would be if you just weren't happy with the treatment you got last time.  Anyway, I know what its like having to commute in and out of London 2/3 times a week during rush hour from Herts in the stimming stages, adding a school going daughter to the juggling act on top of all the upheavel!  
Here's hoping you have a successful next cycle

Shamrosk63


----------



## sue93 (Jun 14, 2006)

thanks so much both of you... And I'm so sorry to hear about your current plight druzy - must be absolutely awful. 

I'm currently dithering wildly between throwing everything at the Lister (except I've just realised it's practically opposite the ex's place in London - def a good reason for not going there, I'll be sneaking in with my hood up...!) and staying with the comfort of the esperance who - you are right shamrock - did, amazingly, get me pregnant (I've never been so shocked in my life when I got the BFP). Much as the last few weeks have been unbelievably  miserable, I guess it's amazing to know my body is (sort of) capable still...

I sometimes think I give myself stuff to fret over as there's absolutely NOTHING i can do about the real problem except cross my fingers etc...

Interesting about the use of PGS tho druzy - I was sort of pinning my hopes on that meaning an almost guaranteed safe p/g (not of course that such a thing exists). As I only got one embryo last time (4 follicles, 2 empty, one egg fertilised) I guess if HAD PGS it would mean that they wouldn't have put anything back (possibly). hmmm...

Thinking of you druzy - hope you're doing as ok as possible

Sue
xx


----------



## druzy (Jan 25, 2006)

Thanks for your wishes Sue, I think my plight will be resolved soon.....I feel less dizzy today so I reckon when I have another blood test tomorrow HCG will have dropped and I'll know it was a m/c - I've just really scared myself about ectopics but I'll just lean and lean on the clinic to absolutely convince me this isn't the case, even if I look neurotic and stupid!

Don't take my comment about PGS as gospel, it seems to me for every argument in medicine you can find an argument saying the opposite, if you look hard enough.  Like I say, I can't even remember where on the internet I read that piece of info but I read it quite recently.  I would discuss PGS directly with your clinic and maybe the Lister, if they'll be doing it, that'll probably be more valuable.  If you poke around on the over 40s threads you should also find some other posts from people who were looking into it or had it.

Bad news about the Lister being opposite your Ex though!

I dunno, it's a tough one, but in your 40s don't we have a 40% chance of miscarriage just purely because of older eggs that may be geneticallly compromised?  So I guess that's why we get them (other fertility issues aside) as well as these weird chemical pregnancies.  I don't know whether I've had 2 chemicals or 2 miscarriages now or one of each, I just put it down to the age of the eggs - it would be great if PGS got totally around that...

On the other hand there were 2 people in my just past 2ww who were 43 and got a BFP and as you can see there's quite a few on this over 40s zone...so, you just never know, I guess it's just finding that elusive good egg

best wishes

Druzy xx


----------



## dianne (Apr 5, 2005)

Ladies 
i transferred to the Lister at 40 after 3 failed IVF i have still not got my BFP but feel the Lister best chance for me i was found to have immune issues after my 4th failure which the Lister do and now have tx for that However re PGD you need at least 5 good 3 day old embryo for this to go ahead and with so few and over 40 risk nothing normal to transfer so they like more to do PGD 
I see Dr Wren but all the doctors are good it is a busy clinic but i would recommed consultation so you can see if clinic for you 
i have got best number of eggs at the Lister in my cycles with less drugs than my first clinic as different drugs regime used 
The lab staff are great and i think their expertise makes a big difference to potential success 

Good luck ladies 

Dianne x


----------



## Dobby (Oct 23, 2005)

Hi sue93 

I am no expert (I am at the same clinic as Druzy and they don't offer PGD) but I have read lots of times that there is quite a risk of damaging the embryo when they are doing this, which is why they (as Dianne says) want lots of good embryos available, so they know that there will be something left to implant even if some get damaged by the procedure.

My response to both my ICSI cycles wasn't much better than yours - I only had 4 follicles both times, and I personally wouldn't have wanted them to do anything to them which could risk the embryos I had - I would rather have 3 good ones put back at my advanced 40 year old age, and take my chances with antenatal screening if pregnancy resulted, than risk loosing any of my few precious embies....

I would also echo what someone else has said in that if you felt your first treatment was handled well (and you did get a BFP, lucky you!  But really sorry about your miscarriage) then it would seem a shame to move away just yet.  The clinic I am at didn't change much for me in terms of the protocol/drug levels etc from first time to second, but they did go ahead with the second when other clinics would have cancelled the cycle, just because they knew how I had responded before.... and I got a positive result from this cycle, so it was well worth me sticking with the same clinic.

Best of luck for what ever you decide to do, it is so hard to have to make choices as well as everything else isn't it?  I really wanted someone to just say 'go there, do that' rather than have to select a clinic for myself.  Fortunately, we were very lucky and the NHS consultant that we saw initially for infertility consultants also works privately at the clinic we ended up at - and for that, I can't thank him enough!

Very best wishes.

Dobby


----------



## Lorri (Apr 17, 2005)

Sue,
I have been thinking of trying the Lister too, its either that or DE in Spain. I was looking at their website the other day, did you know they have a satellite in Brighton at the Sussex Nuffield (I guess thats Hove actually !) ?  I used to live in Brighton and if I still lived there, I would be sorely tempted ! 

They have open evenings (in London) the first Monday of every month, which I am also considering attending on 4th Sept

Good luck


----------



## sue93 (Jun 14, 2006)

hi all of you - and thanks so much for the replies. It really does help to know other people are mulling all these things over too...

Am verging on the brink of staying with Eastbourne I think. Will ask them whether they think there's anything they can do to increase the number of follicles. And am also going to get myself an appointment with the Lister just to see if they can convince me they can do better (doing in full disguise to avoid detection by ex...). They seemed really straightforward when I spoke to them on the phone, and suspect they won't bullsh*t me (call me naive).

phew... (no doubt will change my mind again by this afternoon).

thanks again all of you

Sue
xx


----------



## druzy (Jan 25, 2006)

H Sue

I'm thinking of booking an initial appointment with the lister too, just to get another opinion.  I may go on to DEs anyway but just would like to see what they say and how I feel about it.  So if I see someone in the waiting room with a stick on moustache and heavy disguise I'll guess it's you hiding from your ex! 

Just had the 2nd blood test to see what's happened with the levels on Monday which were 72.  Managed to pin the consultant in the corner and got him to admit that ectopic is a consideration but don't know anything until later so no point panicing yet....

Hi Lorri too - if you read this - I'm really sorry that your last IVF turned out BFN after all the ups and downs you went through....the ups and downs are so hard...

and hello Dobby!

love Druzy xx


----------



## sue93 (Jun 14, 2006)

there's not an awful lot that makes me laugh out loud at the moment but your stick-on tache did it druzy! 

Can't quite get my head round the DE idea - at the moment feel like this is very much linked to some 'family' thing for me, and that it wouldn't quite do it for me if not my eggs (lost both parents very young so suspect this is lots to do with it). However I'm the one who said she would never do ivf either (so easy to say when you secretly believe it will work naturally...) - i read a thread recently when someone said that just starting to think about something can change your ideas about it. 

Dreamt last night that my ex (not the nasty battersea one, one I'm friendly with - so many!) and his new partner offered to donate an already fertilised and embedded (what?!) embryo to me. Know she doesn't mind me but not sure she'd go that far... It did raise a smile when i woke up tho!

Am keeping everything crossed for you that's it's not an ectopic, hope you are doing as ok as possible

love Sue xx


----------



## druzy (Jan 25, 2006)

Hi thanks Sue - it's always good to try and have a bit of a larf! 

Today wasn't such a "larf" however, long story short, 2nd blood best showed very little rise in HCG so non viable pregnancy...lots of vagueness about the ectopic but no rise means no rise anywhere, including the tubes so I think it's OK.  Still got shirty with the clinic though a) for getting my hopes up and b) for not being very direct about my ectopic panic.  Anyway, drama over.

I know what you mean about DEs, wanting to have a child really hit me hard when my Dad died at the end of 2004 just before I was 40 and so I understand the family thing a bit.  He nearly asked me a couple of days before he died if I was going to have children and then stopped himself because it wasn't something he would normally do and probably felt he shouldn't - it makes me sad to think of it.  Suddenly the whole family thing, and children and immortality dawned on me - (bit late love!)  I'm sorry to hear you lost your parents young but IVF could well work out for you and so you don't need to think about DEs yet.

If you'd asked me about DEs 2 years ago, in fact I remember the consultant telling me that someone was doing it, I would have been horrified - I'm just being honest.  But having now had 3 failed IVFs I feel I have been let down step by step and reading posts on this site have really normalised the idea of DEs for me.  My consultant said that if you give birth to the child stem cells pass between you and so it inherits some of your DNA....I know how in my mind I would convince myself that it was totally mine and I know I would be totally ok about it.  My DH is totally OK and really surprisingly my mum is too - more ok about it than adoption which is odd if you ask me but you never know what she'll come out with next these days!  It will be a blow for me if DEs don't work either...but I guess that's not a reason not to try.

I also thought I would never do IVF, it horrified me, but then I find IUI gets you into the swing of things and before you know it, £12,500 later in my case (kiss goodbye to the conservatory)!

Strange dream about your ex, I find that this treatment gives you very very odd dreams!

Good luck with your next step.  

Druzyx x


----------

