# Anyone struggling to go to Church through all this?



## Bluebelle Star

I'm wondering if I'm alone here, but I'm really stuggling to find the strength to go to Church. I had an adoption fall through and have infertility and would desperately like to be a mum, it is all I've ever wanted. 

Lately when I go to Church, I see all these happy smiling faces - most people in my Church have 3, 4, 5 babies, the vicar's wife has one a year and while I am always happy for them - gifts when babies arrive, make and take meals etc, honestly right now I feel like I simply can't face Church. 

Anyone else feel like this? Any idea how to move past these feelings?


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## Suzie

I think we all struggle with this at some stage 

In the church family it can sometimes feel like it is magnified that we dont have chlldren , due to all the child orientated activites etc that go on

big  to you
I am sure the lovely ladies on this board will be along to advise you 

x


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## skybluesarah

Absolutely.  I haven't been since before Christmas.  I'm struggling to pray too.  I can pray fine for other people, but when it comes to praying for myself...nothing.


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## Cate1976

There's been 13 babies born to members of my church family since February 05 (earliest DH and I could have a baby).  I cried on a friends shoulder during the dedication of the last one.  DH and I have been blessed though, our church is like one big family and everyone has been really supportive especially our senior leader and his wife.  

Struggling to go to church is understandable although I've not had a problem with going to church.  Is there anyone at church who you're close to who could be the listening ear or shoulder to cry on.


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## caro226

You're certainly not alone!  And I think it's completely understandable to find it difficult - like Suzie says, there are some many children / family-orientated things that go on that just seem to make our situations seem even worse...for me I was also struggling (and still am to some extent) as to where God is in everything.  If we believe in a Heavenly Father who wants the best for us then why is us becoming parents (something He commanded us to do!) so difficult??!

I'm still attending church, but often it's difficult and I confess there have been tears and even temper tantrums (poor DH!) on several occassions.  For me, what's helping me through this is knowing that there are a select group of close friends who are standing with me in this, and who I KNOW are praying for me, even when I can't do so myself.  A couple of them in particular couldn't have children of their own, and it's been helpful to talk things through with them because when I say how rubbish I'm feeling, they completely understand because they've been there.  DH and I also spent some time talking things through with our church leader, which if nothing else, was at least putting him in the picture as to why sometimes I could be seen making a fast exit during some services.

Big   
C


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## Cate1976

Hope some of you find this encouraging. It took me a while to realise that I was grieving what DH and I don't have. I found this comforting. It's my senior leader's website. http://www.livingthegospelofgrace.com/SERMON_ON_MOUNT.html scroll down to the piece about Matthew 5 verse 4.


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## FairyDust2012

My sister is a youth helper and she was part of the cheche too but had to give it up after not coping with all the pregnancys and babies...but she has also found comfort and support within her church.

I think sometimes it the first step inside that can be the hardest, once u have a beaming face and open arms the other side u seem to relax.

God will understand, i use to find it hard to talk too and i started when i was on the toliet one day (i know very   )  

I hope u find peace soon xxxx


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## Bright Eyes

I am so glad that someone has started this thread as it is something that I have been struggling with for ages. I went through a spell of not even feeling comfortable with the concept of IVF as I thought that this was working against what was the bigger plan for me. I got really upset in Church one night as something just hit home in the sermon.. I had to go out and I was followed by a lady in church that I knew only a little. It was an answer to a prayer as I spilt it all out to her.. just the right person. It turns out that her daughter was conceived via IVF . on the 4th attempt. She put everything in perspective for me and told me to look at in in another way.. that God would not have given people the talents to do IVF if it were someting that he did not approve of! I now have someone who is very supprtive and prays hard for me... at the times when I find it hard to pray.
I still do find it very hard to go on a Sunday and have to stiffle the emotions at times. There are some things that I just cannot do like Nativity plays, Young Persons prize givings, Mothers Day and always have to make excuses. Sometimes I feel comforted by something said, sometimes I reach rock bottom and question and question my faith... it's another part of that IVF rollercoaster.
I went to a special service last year where new Ministers are commisioned. It really struck home and I do my nest to try to remember this. The message was basically that  God never makes us a promise that he can't keep, many times we want things but there has never been a promise that being a Christian will make life easier or that we will get what we want. We are not spared suffering or pain, we still face the reality of challenges of life. The promise that God does give to us it that we can rely on him to help us through it.. if we will let him.
There was a new song written for this occasion and part of it says.
" You did not promise days filled with Sunshine, You did not promise lives without care.
You did not promise we would not suffer, but you have promised you will be there"
" You did not promise we'd know no sadness, you did not promise there'd be no tears.
But you promise you'll never leave us, and walk besides us thoughout the years."
" We cannot promise we'll never fail you, or that despairing we won't ask ' Why?'
But we promise to love and trust you, and serve you only thoughout the 'whys'
I  hope that you try to find comfort in this...it's based on a number of  bible readings ( Deuteronomy 31.8, Isaiah58:10,11, Romans 8:2

Bright Eyes


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## Wicklow

Wow, didnt know this thread existed! I find it so hard, yes i know you can see i now have 2 beautiful boys but it wasnt always like that and it still hurts when people are so flippant about babies. We had one time when we were part of a small group and 2 of the girls were pregnant which was hard enough, they then said another couple were wanting to join (who too were pregnant) I explained how i felt and how i would find it really hard and went on holiday to find that they joined the group while we were away - that REALLY hurt and i find it hard to move on. People on the whole in our church have been ok but i wouldnt say i was ever greatly supported maybe due to the fact that nobody understands unless they have been there, i think also now they see we have2 boys they think its all ok now...... it never will be and me being selfish would love another baby but thats been taken away from me - that choice that others have! I have found though that I have helped a number of people through hard times of infertility, one successful and one not and maybe thats why God has put me in this situation. We are having thomas dedicated in june and i will be telling people how very special he is! 
I hope that through what ive been through I can help others and i am so privaleged to have found this thread and to be part of something so special.
Ruth


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## juliakate

I have printed off the new words From Bright Eyes. They made me cry but were beautiful.  I haven't been back to church for the last couple of weeks.  If I'm honest I feel angry and ashamed as I have two beautiful sons but so desperately wanted another which has just failed.  I feel the same as Ruth that the choice of more children has been taken away from me.  I will be going back to church on Sunday. I am finding it hard to pray and will probably start crying at the service. I'm hoping to find some strength and some direction.
JuliaX


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## Cate1976

I've found isaiah 61 v 1-3 comforting.  I've paraphrased it on the Bible Quotes thread.


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## icky

Hi

Glad there are other people that feel the same.  I pick and choose when I go to church now and definitly avoid christenings and mothers day. I do put myself through going to presentations and concerts as my 2 nieces are usually in them.  I have too come had to leave the service in tears a few times. There are only a few people who know of my infertility problems at Church and know they pray for us every day.  It s made doubly worse as all the young children in church really take to my Dad! so we usually have a pew ful of children.
There are certain songs and hymns that set me off too.  

xxx


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## Katerina x

Hello

It is really good to read your thoughts on this - I hadn't found this bit of the website before.  I've recently gone back to church properly for the first time in years (since before I started this ttc nightmare!), and am finding it emotional but often comforting.  Sometimes its hard to pray for myself or know why this is happening, but I have felt some glimmers of a purpose - I am a stronger, different person than before i had to deal with this, and whether I can be a mother or not, I will find a way to give the love and mothering I have in me to someone or something!  It is also wonderful to feel God's overwhelming support again, and i'm glad if this sadness has helped take me back to Him.  This isn't how I feel every day, but its there sometimes.  

Bright eyes' words are lovely.

All the best

Katerina


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## Dibley

Hiya ladies - looking forward to getting to know you all 

I think what this thread shows us is that all of us can struggle in going to church. Yes the cross we carry is the burden of infertility - and the next person sitting next to us will be carrying their particular cross and burden too. 
As a vicar I have to turn up - regardless what day it is  
Yes I too struggle with Mothering Sunday - though I do try to keep telling myself that traditionally it was all about workers who were in service (maids etc.) returning home to their Mother (Home) Church. Of course in my church I am able to pray for all struggling to become mothers, for those who will have to live a life being childless and women who have had m/c - those who have had motherhood snatched away. When I first prayed for such women the comments I received at the end of the service was one of gratitude. I was surprised at just how many people suffer infertility or know of somebody who does. 
Church is about family - being a part of *God's family*. And all of us are part of that whether we go every week or only on occasions 
I just pray for all of you that you can find peace in Church - and when you don't go for whatever reason - remember God stays home with you 

Dibley x


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## Wicklow

I have been on this site for about 4 years and never found this thread! 
I spoke to someone the other day about how id felt about our small group and the pregnant ladies and she really didnt realise how i had felt! I emailed her the 'empty arms' power point (www.tearsandhope.com) and i think it gave her a bit of an insight. I hope this thread can be one of love and support. We all go through so much no matter how our paths have been travelled and how far we are on that path of infertility. We also need to remember our relationship with God is very personal and we dont need to be at church every sunday to have that relationship - its personal.
I am looking forward to getting to know you all on here, do we need to start a new general topic on here for us to chat?  If you think so then someone start it, just a place to chat, not necessarily about finding church hard

Love to you all
Ruth


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## liveinhope

I can very much identify with a lot of what people have already said on here.  Me and DH have been ttc since May 2004 and in that time many babies have come into our church community, many from close friends.  I have struggled through many baptism services and the unintentional helpful comments of "It'll be you next".

DH and I just completed our 1st ICSI tx and miraculously of the 2 eggs collected both fertilised and we got our BFP on Monday.  However I am now bleeding and it looks like the pg is over before we even started   (a blood test tomorrow will confirm)  I am ashamed to say that this has made me cross with God.  Why did he put us (and our family) through this excitement, if only to take it away from us........  I definitely wont be at church on Sunday, think Mother's Day will be all too raw this year, I struggle at the best of times.  That said I do agree that just because I dont go to church, it doesn't mean God leaves me.

I hope that some people at least sort of understand where I am coming from.  It feels like we will never be parents.

Thanks for listening.....


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## juliakate

Many congratulations on your pregnancy and try and remember many, many ladies bleed through pregnancy but everything is fine.  I bled with my first and everything was ok.  It's such an emotional rollacoaster isn't it.

Praying it's good news for you tomorrow.

Dibley,  Do you think is it is inappropriate to discuss our religion?  Reason being the church I go to is the religion of my boys and husband but not mine.  I love my church but they have conflicting views on IVF.  I was going to convert but am struggling with said views. 

Julia XX


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## Wicklow

juliakate - hadnt thought that this thread is just religion and not just MY religion!! Thanks for pointing that out. 

liveinhope - have pmd you also your comment that God doesnt leave you, isnt it in times of difficulty he carries us (footprints!)

Love to all
Ruth


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## hbrodie

I struggled so badly through IF to go to church and found myself looking in the news letter weekly to make sure there were no christenings happening. If there were any I just couldn't go. Then , I felt really guilty but on the rare occasion there was a christening and I didn't know about it I had to just sit there and bear it. Holding back tears when everyone else is celebrating is very difficult. I am glad I took that time out because you need to do what your body and mind is telling you to. He who matters knows what you are going through and understands your pain so won't hold it against you for not going to church. He can se you're a good person who has faith and love in you and that you just need time to deal with your situation. 

I only told the lady I sit next to about my IF as she is so kind. It is hard though as I am the youngets member of church (they're all retired) and they subtley ask me when I am going to have a baby, or at christening times they make comments about it being me soon mayebe. I just think they don't have any idea about what is going on and that is fine - I haven't told them so why should they. 
However, I prayed and prayed and went to church as much as I could (I am not confirmed but I have a blessing at communion) and I ended up with a BFP naturally - the day befor e we were due to start medication for our 1st go of ICSI. I am so happy, so blessed, and so grateful for what has been given to us that I say a thank you every evening and every sunday I say a little paryed in church for my lieel one growing string, and for all my FF's that you may be blessed the same as DH and I have been. 

There were days when I thought I couldn't go to church - why should I ? I was being punished for my worngs (that I didn't know I'd done) and why would God do this to us? but I still went s my faith carried me through and I chatted with the vicar about it too - he was very supportive. I used to cry at communion because when their hands touched my head I felt this surge of sadness leaving me - my weeks' pent up sadness just gone in a flash there and then. Now, I have a huge warmth surge through me instead at this time. Oddly enough, the sunday before I found out I was pg I didn't cry but instead had the warmth - maybe it was his way of telling me!

I hope you all carry on going to church, but if you have difficult days then take the day off - your faith is never in question, we all need 'me time', and he knows this.


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## Suzie

Wicklow good idea  I have started new thread on this baord called general chit chat 

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=131088.0

happy chatting 

xx


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## Cate1976

I've found it hard seeing so mahy of my friends having babies.  I cried on a friend's shoulder during the dedication of the most recent baby.  The Mums know about the situation DH and I are in.  They've been great.


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## Dibley

Hi girls,

Some great discussions on here 

In answer to your question Julia, _'Do you think it is inappropriate to discuss our religion?'_

Our new board Information says
_Welcome to this board. This is a group for everyone, open to all who have faith, irrespective of our different denominations and personal belief on Assisted Reproductive Technology._

We all come from different Churchmanships, Denominations and maybe Religion. That's great  Unless the person your chatting to knows of your particular Religion then it can be very difficult to comment - but I don't necessarily think that should stop us from asking. But we do need to be sensitive to our differences so as not to upset others 

This is a new board and we may have out teething problems - but hey if we get it wrong we can always come together and pray about it 

Love Dibley


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## Wicklow

Thinking of you ladies especially today as you go to church. I listened carefully to our leader today with what he said and I thought if i was still without a baby how very very hard his words would be!
Love and hugs and prayers
Ruth


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## icky

wicklow - I didn't get to church this morning. i too have sat through Christenings and previous mothers day services crying and just felt that this year I wouldn't be able to bear it.  I'm having my mum, dad, sister and family round for tea. It started just after we got married as we will come to you on mothers day because you are not a mum (not nasty we hadn't started ttc then ) also as a way for sister to avoid MIL as they dont get on.  I feel that I have to carry on this tradition even though hubby tells me not to and offers to take me away for the day. I am stuck between this and really wanting to do it for my mum after all it isn't my mums fault for my IF. Plus I want her to knowhow special and suportive shehas been through all this.

I too am thinking and praying for everyone today

xxx


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## Bright Eyes

I've not made it today either.  I too find Mother's Day very hard as it's the one thing I want and can't have at the moment. Started stimms last Friday so really too close to home at the moment for me. I know that there is someone there though praying very hard for me today,
Bright Eyes


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## poppy888

Hi ladies,
I feel guilty as I didn't make it to church this morning either  
I just couldn't face the fact it was mothers day and yet another year has passed and I am still not a mother. I thought all was well when I got a positive last month, but it wasn't meant to be...again!!
Life goes on and I hope that things will get easier. I just am finding it all very hard to fathom. So many attempts at treatment and I feel that I will never get my prayers answered.
Perhaps things will be different next year. I have been saying that for so many years that I don't think I believe it anymore!!!
I hope that I can make the effort to get back to church next week. As Scarlett OHara would say "tomorrow is another day!"
Talk soon
Poppy


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## Julie Wilts

Wow, thank goodness other people are really exactly where I am at the moment.

I've actually been to Church, and received communion, twice in the last month as well as visiting two local Churches for some "peace time".  For months I struggled with my faith and my inability to conceive, feeling like I was being punished for something.  But recently I've felt like I actually receive so much peace and stillness from just being in Church.

My dd and I attend a Parent and Toddler Group at the Church; in fact I help to run it now, but it's been really tough over the last year seeing all my friends getting pregnant again and again.  I am THRILLED for them, but a little bit of me hurts so badly.  A few of them know what we are going through and have been fantastically supportive, so that's why I have kept going there.

I've had a few conflicting comments from other "religious" friends.  One said "pray like you have already received", which I just keep remembering and doing.  Then again, someone felt fertility treatment was really against God's wishes.  I was hurt by that, but so glad to see this thread where other people have put some very positive comments on.

It's not like I feel I have to be at Church every week to be a good Christian, but recently I've felt like it gives me added strength to cope and makes me feel more positive.

I hope all you ladies find your peace in whatever way helps you, and hope we all grow because of our experiences (hopefully in the tummy area ).

Take care everyone, and thanks again to FF for giving me the chance to really get some moral support. XXX


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## Dibley

Well girls i did go to church - I guess if I hadn't of turned up they would have noticed a gap up at the front 

Yes it was hard for me - even though I had my professional Vicar head on 
But on a positive note I had an elderly lady praying - she was never able to have children - anyway in one of her prayers, she thanked God for the medical treatments that He had provided through the skills of the Dr.s, to give girls whose wombs were broken the chance of becoming a mum. It was one of those 'hair standing up on the back of your neck' moments - a real presense of the Holy Spirit  
She then lit our Candle of Hope - I prayed for you all in the quiet of my heart 

Well goodnight God bless - I'm ready for a hot bath and a nice glass of vino 

Dibley x


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## Sasha B

Dibley,

I am so glad that God ministered to you through this little old lady! He does choose the most unlikely of people sometimes! I think you should look upon that prayer as a personal blessing. How lovely! I can imagine today wasn't easy for you   . One day, hun you will be celebrating Mother's day as a mother. And even if you can't hold on to that hope all the time, even in the dark moments, know that others are holding onto it for you (like Aaron & Hur held up Moses' hands for him when he could no longer do it for himself - Exodus 17).

Lots of love,

Sasha xxx


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## Nofi

Hi Ladies,

 . I did go to church yesterday, surprisngly felt some peace within me and wasn't that emotional about not yet been a mother. I decided to take it has a Sunday where my focus will be more on celebrating my mum and other older aunts that have in one way or the other contributed to my life when i was a child. Thus phoned each one of them and said THANK YOU. I guess my inner thoughts make me think that even if i have had a child now, he/she would be a baby that didn't have clue on what the day was about anyway. As my Godson  (4yrs old) saw me yesterday and said Happy Mother's day without really knowing what it meant, as it was his mum that informed on what to say  

Anyway, as par going to church in general, being human i sometimes feel "why me" without the bump, especially when i see the new couples that got married few moths ago with a bump. Though not jealous, as i rejoice with them in order for them to be able to rejoice with me when it's my turn. But when i see couple that i know have been married for a while/TTC  with a bump in church, i am         as i use them as i point of contact that God that made theirs happen will surely do mine at his own appointed time.

The only time, i felt reluctant to go to church for a 2 week period, was after my miscarriage. As i felt upset with God, why he took the baby away from me, but after some quiet moments with him, i realised that he's been faithful in other areas of my life (job, finance, marraige, siblings, good health with parents) and just because of this one issue of TTC that is yet to be sorted, shouldn't stop me being THANKFUL, GRATEFUL and JOYFUL. As somepeople out there in this world desire all the things we have and will swap places with us, reglardless of not yet with a child.

I then returned to church after 3 weeks as going there make me see other miracles that God is performing in other people's life, which is encouraging and uplifting as my turn for God to perform his wonder working powers will surely come as well.

I pray and hope that we all find peace and spiritual comfort when we decide to go to church, as that's the purpose of it's creation.

Nofi
xx


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## flowerfairies

just thinking of you


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## Tandi

Thank you for this thread. I've really struggled with going to church for years now. So many well meaning people who say the wrong things. I used to run the creche.. gave up on that 4 years ago. I walk out of many services and mother's day is definitely not one I can sit through. People share stories of prayer and fasting and then pregnancy and all I hear is 'so you can't be praying hard enough' and 'your faith can't be strong enough'.   If only they knew....
Despite all this, my faith is still strong. Someone asked me recently how my prayer life was - answer: Great - I shout at God regularly  
And it's got harder because last year infertility got too much and my husband and I split. Now I hardly dare set foot in a church. Yuk yuk yuk  
Tandi x


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## Dibley

Hi Tandi and welcome ! 

So sorry to hear that your infertility journey led to the breakup between you & DH - I  that family/friends have rallied around to support you through it - and if not, your new friends on FF will be here for you 

With regards to going to church, as you see with the different responses on this thread, everyone struggles with this. Glad to hear that your faith is still strong  I think you're right when you say that there are well meaning people in church who tend to say the wrong thing - it's usually a lack of understanding, and finding the right time to educate them on infertility isn't always possible. Though believe when I see an opportunity to educate, I'm right in there! 

In my congregation there are people who suffer with a variey of infertility problems - I encourage them to come & go as they please - even if that's arriving late and leaving before the end, so as to avoid 'well meaning conversations' 
But if anyone ever said to me that my IF was because I wasn't _praying hard enough or because my faith wasn't strong enough_ Ooooh I'd have my angry vicar head on believe me 

Keep shouting to God  He is listening - but how/when he answers is up to Him 
You're in my  too 

Dibley x


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## Bright Eyes

I made it to church on Sunday for the first time in ages. I went because we are without Ministers at the moment and the person doing the service was the wife of the person that married me. He died very suddenly last year at age of 56. I felt that I needed to support her.
I am glad that I went although did find it hard. I seem to get so emotional and think that everthing that is said is directed at me! DH and I are having a real rough time at the moment and I've really been questioning our relationship over the last few weeks. Not good timing when egg collection due in 48 hrs!
I am praying that I keep faith over the next 2 weeks and I need God to help me stay strong.
Bright Eyes


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## Cate1976

for you Bright Eyes.  There are times when I've found church hard with all the LO's but by trusting God and my church family being amazing especially our senior leader and his wife, I've got through the tough times.


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## hbrodie

bright eyes - I will be thinking of you for ec tomorrow and   for you too, for you and your DH. these are difficult times and they put strains on relationships it is true, plus hormones are to blame partly as well.


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## Tandi

Thank you Dibley for understanding. Funny how they say it's good when christians are tent makers in communities - sometimes just as good when vicars can share real life problems too (some kind of inverse tent making perhaps?). 
And Bright Eyes good luck, prayers, hugs, love, oh... mostly hugs
Tandi x


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## Dibley

Bright eyes - I too will be praying for your e/c tomorrow  This journey puts a strain on every relationship - a big hug for both you and DH  Don't forget with all the hormones being pumped into your body you're not your usual self - you've been both physically & mentally pushed to the limits - be gentle on yourselves and with each other too  Do let us know how you get on      

Tandi - glad I could help  I'm awful at putting tents up, let alone making them  

Big   to everyone else 

Dibley x


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## Bright Eyes

Thanks for all the good wishes.
I'll keep you all posted as to how it goes tomorrow
Love Bright Eyes.


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## Tandi

Hi Guys, 
A slightly different thought... maybe a confession... but it's so easy to be angry with people (and God) for doing and saying the wrong things. I know that what I hear and what they mean often isn't the same thing. Sometimes I think I don't go to church because I've already decided in advance that someone is going to say something or sing something or preach something which will just be 'wrong' and 'hurtful'. Maybe I just need to be softer with them.
Having said that, I still feel too fragile in all of this to risk being hurt more... but gradually gradually I can see myself being changed and some of the sharper resenting corners are getting knocked off. 
All a bit deep for a Thursday morning! Sorry!
Love to all
Tandi x


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## hbrodie

good morning  

bright eyes - I am thinking of you for ec today    

tandi - we have to look after ourselves and if it sometimes means not going to church for fear of comments that may hurt us then so be it, God will still love you and he knows what you are going through so understands your feelings


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## Cate1976

I've had the 'be patient' 'in God's time', 'it'll happen' comments. DH and I have also been blessed to have the most supportive church family. Our senior leader and his wife have been amazing. The If really hit me last October, the weekend before my Niece's first birthday (see my signature and think about dates), 2 days befor my Nieces birthday I was sat in my senior lkeader's office pouring my heart out and yes did come very close to tears, a few did drop when he gave me a hug at the end.

It took me a while to realise that part of it was that I was grieving for the Lo DH and I don't have. I found the book by Vera Snow 'Coping with Infertility' very helpful. I've also found Matthew 5 verse 4 comforting 'Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted', there's a really good article on this verse on http://www.livingthegospelofgrace.com/SERMON_ON_MOUNT.html. You'll need to scroll down to the section on verse 4. The website belongs to my senior leader, there's loads of really good articles on it.

/links


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## Gen

Hello Ladies,

I've really enjoyed reading everyone's posts.  I've found it quite difficult reconciling in my mind what is happening fertility wise and how it relates to me spiritually.

I had a real struggle with feeling like I was being punished and that God doesn't love me  .  At the time I knew this wasn't true, but the feelings felt real to me.

I think I've come through the otherside of things now.  I use to pray before every tx cycle that I would get a BFP,  and as each tx failed, I felt so let down that my request was "rejected" and then internalised that feeling that I too am rejected.  I've been getting used to the feeling of failed tx after failed tx, so now I'm able to pray that everything turns out well for DH and I which of course may mean going for adoption.


I sing in my church choir every Sunday, but as some of you have so rightly pointed out, this does not mean anything in terms of Gods love for us.  We are all equally loved - church goers, non-church goers, faithful and non -faithful  alike........

I know I would love a neat little answere that sums up why I and so many other lovely people are going through such suffering.......when right in front of me I see people that give so little attention and appreciation for their children.....


Up until now I've not got an answere, but continue to pray that our journey has a happy ending.  I do find it hard to feel close to God at times, and then feel guilty about it...I'm sure there is a deep understanding with regard to my feelings on God's part.


Wishing you all the best on this spiritually challenging journey, I know it can be quite hard at time  


Pleased this thread was started !
LOL Gen xOx


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## Tandi

Hi Gen, 
Just to say you're not alone in feeling this is your fault or what you deserve. I've been there too and it comes goes (even though my head knows this just isn't the case, but my heart still feels that I must have failed in some way). Related but different is feeling really angry with God - because he can see how much I want a baby and the pain I'm going through, but he still hasn't blessed me with a baby - it seems cruel. I do know these things aren't true but believing it in my heart is a constant battle of wills. 
Anyway I just wanted you to know you aren't alone in this. 
I'd be interested to hear how you cope with you choir. I struggle with the words of many hymns and worship songs. I guess they just often touch a very raw nerve. 
Sending love
Tandi x


----------



## Tandi

One more thought for this morning...
What I try to come back to is a verse from a Psalm. 
_'One thing I ask of the Lord, this is what I seek - that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life, to gaze upon the beauty of the Lord and seek him in his temple' (hope I've got that right). _ 
Sometimes I just need to remember to focus on this and my woes always do fade.
More love, 
T x


----------



## Julie Wilts

Tandi/Gen

It feels like a   got answered, to hear other people talking of exactly the things which I am struggling with too.  There are so many of us out there experiencing the same things, but sometimes IF makes you feel so alone.  My AF has been tough this time, and I have been so low, but reading all the threads makes me keep going and feel like people understand (even if friends and family don't really).

I've been to Church more since my diagnosis, and started taking communion again, feeling peace after.  Then my AF arrived and I have struggled to pray since.

When I was diagnosed I felt like it was my fault; that I had done something wrong and was being punished; that we should have tried sooner after dd arrived; that I shouldn't have ignored my age; that I should have put less emphasis on work and more on family life  .... the list is endless.  I still feel some of those things, but I am coming to terms a little with it.

I   for us all for peace of mind in our journeys.  XXX


----------



## Cate1976

Welcome Tandi and Gen.  

I was still beyond words 24 hours after DH and I were told that we'll need IVF to have our own LO.  There's Prayer and Praise evry thursday during term time in our church and it just happened to be that we found out the heartbreaking news on a Wednesday.  Since then, there have been some really tough times but with |God's love and my supportive church family, I have come through them.  The hardest was back in December when I cried on a friends shoulder during the dedication of the 13th baby to be born to church family since February 05.  What happened was we all gathered round the family, I was stood close to tears and one of my friends noticed and put her arm round me.  Hug me or put arm round my shoulders when I'm upset is likely to have me in tears or close to.


----------



## galaxy girl

Hello everyone - just found this thread and it really struck a chord with me. I've struggled to go to church since Christmas. Our own church is full of my DH's nephews and nieces and I find it hard to see them all the time. I went to my former church (where I went before my marriage) on Mothers day and found it difficult to see everone of my age who attended youth groups with me with not one but at least 2 children each! Got emotional. There was also a baptism. Very hard.

However it has helped me to see what you all have been saying - I agree with you re. the grieving process Cate. 

So I'm going to try and go this Sunday.


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## brownowl23

HI Girls

I have to say I struggled and failed to go to church all through my IF rollercoaster, then once I got divorced i didnt feel welcome (being catholic).

I have to say I have only just started going to church again and this is only since I have had my boys. I feel at last he has been listening to me and I think there are many good reasons for answered prayers. 

Its not religious but I found Garth BRooks song Unanswered prayers and the very moving words helped me realise that God might have had my life all mapped out all along I just didnt realise how long and hard that path might be.

Chris


----------



## hbrodie

the song I always find so moving is the one that was the christmas number one by the guy who won x-factor (forgotten his name) but he did a cover of the mariah carey / whitney houston one. It is either called 'miracles' or 'when you beleive' I think. Always brings me to tears.


----------



## Cate1976

The song sung after the dedication I cried through is by Andy Park and is called Only You.  There's a line in the chorus which goes 'Only You can answer my heart's cry'.  Has me close to tears everytime I hear it.  There's loads of encouraging songs/lines.  One I find encouraging is in the song 'My Jesus I love Thee' the line goes 'If ever I loved Thee my Jesus tis now'.  My senior leader sometimes sings it when he leads worship and he sings the song better than any of the versions available to buy.


----------



## DiamondDiva

Hi Girls,


So far i have abstained from replying to this thread, basically because i thought it was because i was too close i think, before we got our BFP i struggled to go to church with DH and that is not like me at all as i felt |God was  testing us but i didnt know why and i still dont, i felt guilty when praying and still do as i was aking for something instead of just praying for others and i knew my DH was worried about using a sperm donor which we did for 3 times until we miraculously got a Natural BFP and i think to this day what a miracle our DD is but i cant help but ask our God for another miracle to give our DD a sibling, I have tears in my eyes even thinking about it, i feel guilty as i know there are so many people wanting just 1 baby and i already have that and want another and feel awful for it.


x Debs x


----------



## Julie Wilts

Debs - Just had to reply after reading your touching post, as I know very much how you are feeling.  We already have a dd who was conceived naturally, and have been ttc for another baby for 18months.  It's so difficult trying to explain to people when you already have one child, just how strong that longing still is for another and how devasting an IF diagnosis is.  We have always felt blessed to have our dd - her twin was m/c at 6.5wks - so we were lucky to keep her.  Like you, I feel guilty wanting more than one child, when so many of these lovely ff ladies do not have one yet, but if you have that longing and that wanting to love another child you should follow that dream.  I wish you all the very best, and hope all the lovely ladies here receive the blessings and miracles they are seeking.

Hello to everyone else reading.


----------



## Dibley

Debs  - welcome and  . It is OK to pray for yourself - indeed it's Biblical - we see many examples in the Bible of people praying for themselves. In the Psalms we see personal prayer covering many emotions; love, anger, despair, thanksgiving...and indeed even Jesus cried out to the Father on many occasions.

I think all of us can feel guilty for praying for our own needs - I was once told to, 'ditch the guilt coz it takes you away from truly praying.' 
God knows what's in our hearts & words on our lips before we even do. But he still wants us to come to Him. Yes, you're daughter is a miracle, but God doesn't limit his miracles to one - thank God! Don't compare yourself to others - you're unique to God. Your life, your prayers are between you & God - KEEP praying for another miracle hun! 
And I'll  for you too 

Brownowl - I love Garth Brooks songs 

Galaxygirl all goes well for you if you decide to go back to church tomorrow 

Julie -   that your miracle no.2 is just around the corner too!

God bless, Dibley x


----------



## Cate1976

Will have to search for the Garth Brooks song.  I'm on ******** and there's loads of songs on there that you can add to your profile.


----------



## snickers34

Hi 
Just been reading through this thread and found it really comforting.  It made me realise that the spiritual strugle I've been going through is not unusual.  We've been ttc for over 3 years and through that time have been very angry with God, dissulusioned with my faith, cynical and very sad.  I at first went through every action and thought to find out where I had sinned which I thought was stopped me having a baby, which was a very heavy burden.  Then it was God is trying to teach me something and tried to find out what.  Then I became cynical and dissulusioned at the church.  At the end I was just very sad because I had done all this and there was still no results and I didn't know what God thought about me or my life and that to be honest he didn't really care.  I felt very low at that time, and although I feel a bit more at peace now part of me still thinks that.  During my low time, I just knew the only way was up.  I had read in the bible " to whom shall I go you have the words of life" so I felt that was the way for me.  

I have come more to a peace now but struggle with praying for anything specific.  My church attendance is regularly sporadic.  At times I'm strong and love seeing the babies and toddlers, other times I just steer clear.  The hard things now is people don't ask us about having kids, which is good in one way, but on the other hand I guess they've made up their minds that we can't have them.  I keep my distance from people my age as all they talk about is their kids without any sensitivity for my situation (although they don't know my situation, but at 36 years old, having been married for 9 years you'd think they had an incling!).  

My heart breaks when I read others stories, like losing DH, I can't imagine how that would rock your faith.  I guess it's like it says somewhere in the bible, that things will be shaken and what remains is what's real.  I feel all I have left is my faith that God exists and loves me.  Don't know how'll feel if my treatment works because I'll feel like a right hypocrite for doubting.  I think the spiritual turmoil is worse than the physical.

Thanks for reading ... and sorry again for the ramble.

Thanks for posting your thoughts they've really helped me.


----------



## Damelottie

Snickers

All my love for your IVF coming up.

Emma x


----------



## Dibley

Snickers & a warm welcome to you 

Thanks for sharing your story - yeah we've all felt similar things hun 
For all that you have been through and yet you still say:

_I feel all I have left is my faith that God exists and loves me _ is very heartwarming 

When your TX works, sing and shout your celebrations from the rooftops! You won't be a hypocrite for doubting, just human like the rest of us - I always think that the story of doubting Thomas is recorded so that all of us can identify with it and see that at the end Jesus still forgives and welcomes him 

Anyway I'll be for your next TX - do keep us updated as to how you're getting on 

Dibley x


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## Cate1976

SNICKERS:  Welcome to the board.  I've not felt angry with God at all.  DH and I have been TTC #1 since we got arried in April 04, since February 05, there's been 13 babies born to members of our church family.  I've said to lots of the parents that although I'm pleased for them, I wish I could be among them and I know that makes me sound jealous.  They've all said that they didn't think I was being jealous.  They've been reallly suppotive as well and been  .  DH and I are now on the waiting list for IVF which is quite short in our area.  We hope to be starting tx in September this year.


----------



## snickers34

Thanks again for your comforting words.  I know despite my ranting and raving, anger, cynisim God was and still is listening.  We are human and like you say Dibley with Doubting Thomas, Jesus forgives and welcomes us.  Sometimes the path of life isn't easy, and I know others have it SO much harder than me.  It would be nice to know where my life is headed, but I guess that's just me wanting to be in control!  I should be grateful, and am, that I have so much in my life and that I haven't had to wait too long for treatment.  

Cate you sound like such a lovely patient person, if only I could be so calm.  Maybe I should be more open with my friends - I shouldn't expect to understand me if I don't say anything should I.  Do worry as some won't understand re IVF and the ethics of it.  Hope the time flies until September ...

Have a good week everyone


----------



## Cate1976

If anyone wants to know about the ethics of fertility treatment, get the book 'Fertility and Faith' by Brendan McCarthy.  It is really well written, early part is about relevant legislation and status of embryos then the treatments available (some are no longer used and for some the techniques have changed, the ethics are still relevant).  put fertility and faith in the search box on Amazon and it should be the first book on the list.  You might be able to get it by ordering from Christian bookshops.  I would try S.P.C.K or if you live in Northern Ireland, I got my copy from Faith Mission.


----------



## Sasha B

Snickers, thanks for being open and honest. Let me first say (and you probably know this already) that God is not punishing you because you have sinned. We're all in the same boat, but  the loving God I know would never be so vindictive. Secondly, it is incredibly upsetting and frustrating when you've done all you can and still the desire of your heart is not realised. I can't say I have all or even some of the answers on the score, but I have tried to hold on to is the lives of those women in the Bible who thought they would never have children or be mothers - Sarah, Rachel and Hannah to name but a few.  Their stories may not give you answers but I hope it gives you encouragement that there are others in the same boat both past and present. God heard their heartfelt longings and made the impossible possible.

love,

Sasha xxx


----------



## snickers34

Thanks Cate for tip on ethics - will look it out.  Took the step last night of telling a friend about my treatment and she was really supportive, more than I thought she would be.  I was maybe hesitating because one friend I told hasn't mentioned it since - not sure if she just feels it a bit difficult.  

Thanks for your kind words Sasha - sometimes having hope is too frightening because I don't want to be dissappointed.  To go what you have gone through and still have hope is really something.  I do hope God can make the impossible happen.  Like you say I should remember things God has done for others and also what he has done for me in the past.  I must trust what happens is in God's plan.  Sounds easy!!  

Thanks again for your support.  I have really found it helpful to write about how I feel and to find it's quite normal and I'm still accepted.  Thank you so much


----------



## Tandi

Hi Guys, 
Glad it's not just me who's a bit nervous of hope in case of disappointment. It really does help to realise it's not just me. 
My grandpa used to have a favourite saying about the future which you've just reminded me of... 'I do not know what the future holds, but I know who holds my future'. Hmmm that makes me feel good today, especially as what the future might hold is just a bit scary.
Hugs
T x


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## Cate1976

Good quote Tandi.  So true, God does have our future in His hands.  He knew our lives before we were conceived (Jeremiah 1 verses 4-5) .


----------



## snickers34

You're right Tandi.  I've been doing a lot of reminising today about experiences throughout my life and it made me realise God never left me through hard and good times, and those experiences have made me who I am today.  I hope what I am going through now will be helpful to others in the future.  Well, even reading all your posts have helped me.  God has a good plan for our lives (Jer 29).  Just got to hang onto that.

Have a good week all


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## Cate1976

It's only when I look back on some of the hardest times of my life that I realise God was with me even though I didn't know it at the time.  Gave my life to God on 15th August 1999 (long story to how that happened).


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## Damelottie

Would you tell us Cate?  

But please don't be offended by my asking if its tooooo personal.

Emma


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## Cate1976

15th August is the anniversary of the Omagh bomb.  I wasn't living in Omagh at the time but one of my friends was and 2 of her friends were killed in the bomb.  At the time of the first anniversary, I was living in a YWCA in Birmingham.  I'd only 'had my first encounter' with God 3 weeks before.  I said to a friend of mine in the YWCA who was a Christian and an inspiration that I wanted to go to church to pray for everyone in Omagh.  Let's just say God had another plan.  The minister stood at the front at one point and said that if anyone wanted to give their life to God, then either go up to the front or stay where they were and say the sinners pray.  Just as the song (King of Kings Majesty) started, I said to my friend that I wanted to do it and she said I had to be sure and I replied that I'd never been so sure about anyhting in my life.  She said the words which I repeated after her.  it goes without saying that I don't celebrate my spiritual birthday, it doesn't seem right to as I moved to Omagh in january 2003.


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## Damelottie

Hello Cate

Thats quite some story and thank you for sharing it.  

And then you ended up living in Omagh!

Love

Emma x


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## snickers34

Love your dog EmmaLottie - she's beautiful.  We have minature daschund who is such a cutie - they're lovely to have around hey?


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## Cate1976

I moved to Omagh afetr meeting now DH back in the summer of 2002 when I came to Northern ireland to go to the Christian festival 'Summer Madness'.  My friend was able to meeet me off the bus but then had to go and do the washing up in the French style cafe which the church I go to has, so he asked his friend Malcolm to take me somewhere to get a shower (needed after 27 hour journey) and then up to the shop to get food for the weekend.  Malcolm and I hit it off straight away.  He came up to the festival and helped put the tent I was using up and then there was a really well known Christian worship leader (Robin Mark) doing a gig on the Sunday so my freind came up for the evening with Malcolm and a couple of others.  After the worship was over, they all eneded up coming back to my tent until 2am.  Malcolm then came up on the tuesday to help take the tent down and on way back to Omagh we swapped addresses and phone numbers.  I came over 3 times during Autumn 2002 and when Malcolm came back to Omagh after spending Christmas and New Year with me and my parents ( I moved back to theirs due to being unemployed in Skegness), I came with him.  We got engaged Easter 2003 and married 24th April 2004.


----------



## Dibley

Aww Cate, 

What a testimony - and what a love story too 

I love hearing people's stories and how God's works in their lives! 

Love Dibley x


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## Damelottie

Awww Cate - that is lovely  

Thank you - I really enjoyed reading that


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## Damelottie

Hello Snickers  

Oh yes, he's a real cutie  

Lottie thanks you  . She is lovely and such good fun. My best friend.

She's having a sleep over tomorrow at some friends who are having her at their's for 2 weeks whilst I go on holiday. They thought it would be a good idea to have her one night so she gets used to them  . I have no doubt that idea was really so that I get used to it  . I've packed ALL her toys  . I bet I won't sleep and she'll be fine 

Emma


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## allyjo

Hi

Like the title of this tread suggests I've had and continue to struggle with quiet time in church. I think it's mainly anger, the knowing that God is good and powerful and he has the knowledge and the power to make my embryos grow, but has decided that now is not the time. Not just yet though.

The struggle continues with trying to do Gods will while having the desire to look after and care for children. It's not that my only goal is to have my husbands biological child although that of course is the ultimate goal but to care for any child who needs loving. My DH and I have discussed adoption and fostering but as yet my DH whats to continue down this route for a  little while longer. He's so much more patient that me. but I do wish we could do more in the intrim period - in an attempt to do this I'm looking after my nieces and nephews tomorrow so their parents can go shopping very alteristic not quite- we're off to the cinema. Heppie. Because it's not a perminant arrangement and I do feel that I have to tip toe around people at the moment it's not easy.

Sorry for the rant - I am truely glad that others find church quite difficult I have had a dry eyed sunday since my FET did not work. Maybe this sunday will be different.

Ally


----------



## galaxy girl

Well I didn't make it to church last Sunday. I've been feeling really tired since treartment was stopped and I slept through to 11.40 on Sunday (despite going to bed at 10.30 the night before). Don't know if it's an emotional or physical tiredness but it is constant.

Anyway will aim for this Sunday and set the Alarm.


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## Tandi

Hi Ally, 
Just wanted to say you're not alone at all. I really struggle to reconcile how god can be all-powerful (and could therefore bless us with babies) and is also all-knowing (so understands how unbearable this pain is) and yet hasn't (yet). 
I can only pray that one day we will understand.
Sending love
Tandi


----------



## allyjo

I read a book written by Pete Grieg who was/is  part the prayer 24/7 web site that can be run by any church or Christian group on God on mute. 

It made some sense as in there are many reasons why God does not answer prayer immediately. Doesn't stop my wishing he would though

Am determined to look to the future and try and busy myself in the present and who know what will turn up SO I guess turning up for church is part of the future

Hey galaxy girl I know what you mean about the tiredness and I guess that partly because our bodies work so hard when we are in the middle of a cycle even if its not the desired outcome: I find it hard to get up and stay up when it's the weekend.  ^hug me^


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## snickers34

Hi Ally - I'm pretty much the same as you and agree with Tandi  how god can be all-powerful (able to make me pregnant) and all-knowing (of the unbearable pain) just, in my eyes, sit back and let this happen, and that's when I got angry.  Although as I shared before there's nothing I can do to seem to get him to move on this one (as yet) (and as if little me could  ) so I've come to the end and am just trying to enjoy the life I have and the blessings.  I too look after my niece and nephew and thoroughly enjoy them.  It's all good training too, but hard too because I'm not their mummy.  I am happy to adopt children, I just want to be a mother.  We looked into adoption, attending the information day, had the social worker round, but my husband wanted us to keep trying for our own a bit longer and that meant having treatment so here I am.  We felt peace to go this way, so I've just got to trust God either it's going to work, or the children he has for us to adopt are not ready for us yet.  It's hard to be patient though - my DH doesn't really have a problem waiting though, which can be frustrating at times!  

Galaxy girl - I get very tired too and sleep loads - I think it's all the emotional stress that comes with treatment, even though I'm not overly aware of it, it is there and does drain me.  I miss church too because I'm tired, I do try and make an effort though, but feel I've got to look after myself and I can still speak to God from my bed!!

Emmalottie - I'm the same with my dog.  Was ringing round frantically today to get someone to let him out at lunchtime as my husband did an extra shift and I couldn't get home - I had to laugh - all this for my little O ... and he's totally oblivious!!  .  Good idea for friends to have a taster and for her.  We did that with my brother & family as he's going to stay with them in June.  I think it helps settle them.

Have a good Easter everyone xx


----------



## allyjo

Hi Snickers34 I so could have written you post. SPOT ON. 
Hello to Tandi Emma and Galaxy girl

I am looking after some of my nieces and nephew and am going to take them to the cinema. wish it was n't going to rain the egg trail sounds fun. Still their always next year. 

I do have a dog - Golden Retriever Named Daisy and a cat called Boss. It's hard not to treat them as children. Do hope the neighbours forgive me  for talking to them like they are. Daisy normally sleeps outside but every now and then I let her into the house - She is such good company.

I have walked passed so many easter eggs and have not bought them must get some of the cream eggs for sunday - I do so like them the best,

Enjoy your easter what ever your up to
Ally


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## Cate1976

Emotional stress will make you feel tired.  The way I deal with it is to lay down with worship music playing as much as possible when I'm stressed out.  I find that even if I don't sleep, I rest which can help more than you'd think.


----------



## poppy888

Hi ladies,
I'm sorry for the me post!
If you could find the time, could you please pray for me and my hubby. Our marriage has had so many ivf disappointments over the years and it is crumbling fast. My hubby is hurt that we still can't have children and has become so discouraged with our marriage.
I believe that God can do the impossible and can restore our relationship, but it may help if there is more than just me storming heaven with prayers daily!!  
Thanks for taking the time to remember us
Love
Poppy x


----------



## allyjo

Hey Poppie888,

I will pray for you both. This treatment is very hard on any relationship. I want to suggest something that helped me and my DH - We went to counselling. It was really hard at the begining but after a few sessions it really helped us cope with this as a couple and not individuals. 

Have you seen the light a candle thread.

God will draw close.

Take care


----------



## Dibley

Poppy, 
I have a Easter vigil service shortly and promise to   for you and DH during our intercessions.
IF tries the best of every relationship - hold onto your love - the very thing that brought you & DH together in the first place  And know that God is in the midst of all it all - even the messy bits  If you need to chat more don't hesitate to pm me 

Easter blessings to you hun x

Dibley


----------



## Cate1976

Poppy888   for you and DH.  One thing I am thankful for is that IF hasn't pulled DH and I apart.  We might not have sais much to each other (both trying to be strong for the other) but we have been blessed with the most supportive church family possible especially our senior leader and his wife.


----------



## Damelottie

Poppy888 - Just to send you some big  

Emma x


----------



## snickers34

Thinking of you Poppy888.  You have been through a lot.  It's hard to cope individually with the emotions nevermind express this as a couple.  I pray you and you DH find the strength to continue through this with God's help.

Sarah x


----------



## Tandi

Dear dear Poppy, Sending lots and lots of   and  
and be gentle with yourselves. IF is a horrible experience for anyone to face.
Tandi x


----------



## Bright Eyes

Hi All
Just wanted to say a Happy Easter and lots of positive blessings to everyone on this thread. It's a real comfort to me to know that we all feel the same and can be open and honest about how we feel .. and supportive.
Especially thinking of you Poppy. I know how hard this IF is on our relationships. My DH is totally unsupportive ( only ever been to one appointment with me and even dumps me home and runs to work after EC!) and this tx has brought out the worse in him. I am on the 2ww at the moment and all he does is moan that we can't go anywhere and do anything ( like 10 mile hikes). I worry that if we ultimately fail in this, will what we have be enough to keep us going.
I can only hope and pray that I will find the strength whatever the outcome to sort this out. DH does not share my faith in God and so that is sometimes a barrier and a challenge.
I will say extra prayers at tonights service for all of us  .. and hope that it's not just the chocolate variety of eggs that bring us all luck this year! 
Bright Eyes


----------



## snickers34

Can't imagine how hard it must be for you Brighteyes going through this on your own, you must be really strong.  It is good that like you say we can get support from each other on FF, I've found it really helpful, particularly this thread, being able to share my spiritual thoughts.

My thoughts are with you.


----------



## Damelottie

Happy Easter to you

  Brighteyes.

I hope this treatment is successful for you       

Emma x


----------



## CherryWoo

Hi Ladies, I had my first total freak out in church on Sunday. I had to leave when they were talking about hope in bad situations. I don't have any hope for my own children any more after menopause in my 20s. I can't believe that God would choose me (1 in 1000) to be the person who suffers this. Why not a child abuser or drug addict? Infertility is enough to deal with without the symptoms & psychological connotations of this. I really do want to believe in God (was a committed Christian before this) but I am starting to doubt his presence at all to be truthful. Me & DH have been through one sadness after another this year. Sorry if this sounds angry but that is the way I feel. I see really cruel people having baby after baby & I can't understand this.
Poppy Darlin- my thoughts are really with you. I appreciated your PM earlier this year & you are in my mind Sweetie. PM me any time.
Thanks for listening & letting me know that I'm not alone in feeling this way, Jen


----------



## Klingon Princess

I too am really struggling with the whole church and God issue at the moment.  Over the last few years I tried twice to adopt, with two different agencies and got refused by both of them... (a social worker lied about me and I couldnt prove it).  I just found out today that my tenth attempt at DIUI has failed.

I know I'm being stupid but I really feel like God is judging me and saying that I don't deserve to be a mother, that I'm not good enough.

I do go to church on sundays but if I'm honest that's more because my mum would panic and get really upset if I didn't and I just can't handle the arguments it would cause.

On Easter sunday we had a visiting priest and he gave a beautiful talk, that was extremely relevant.  He talked about how you can't have Easter sunday without Good Friday and how the good things and the joy are so much more valuable when we've suffered to get them.  not sure if I'm explaining it very well but he went on to say that the pain of Good friday and the suffering we undergo is followed by the joy of easter sunday....  When i listened, I just sat there in tears....  I know and understand what he was saying, the problem is that for the moment I am trapped in good friday and can't see Easter sunday ever coming for me....

thanks for "listening"

Kehlan


----------



## CherryWoo

Hi Kehlan, We are starting to look into adoption too. It's a REALLY tough road, not the sticking plaster for IF that the rest of the stupid world thinks. I am really sorry to hear of your unsuccessful treatment Darlin. I don't know if it will help, but I'll send you a prayer Sweetie. Please don't think that you have 'deserved this'- no way! Your passionate desire to be a Mum plainly tells me otherwise.
J xo


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## galaxy girl

I think that a real problem is that (of course) church is a real family place and I for one feel really out of place because I don't and may never have one. 

I did go to church on Easter Sunday (finally) and I coped OK! It was a nice service. No baptisms.


WeeJen I'm sorry it was so hard for you on Sunday. Thinking of you. 
Keelan That is a lovely analogy about good friday and Easter Sunday.


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## Damelottie

Kehlan -  . I had the same thing happen with social workers and adoption. It took me 2 long years of fighting to get their untrue reports thrown off my file. When I think about adoption my panic attacks resurface. Such a horrendous experience.

I wish you well and send all my love and  

Emma xxx


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## Julie Wilts

Kehlan -   So sorry to hear that your 10th attempt at DIUI has failed, and all the adoption misery too!  We have had so many people say "why don't you try adoption?" as if it's just the right thing to do.  Whilst I totally agree with adopting, it just isn't for everyone - we are already blessed with a dd, but we are ttc for #2, and it's about the whole experience - pregnancy as well as having a little one.  I'm sorry as well that you feel you have to go to Church to avoid confrontations with your mum.  .  I really   that you will find some peace soon, and hope you don't carry on feeling like God is punishing you (although I often feel the same). I hope your Easter Sunday comes to you soon. 

Weejen - I wish you all the very, very best for your adoption journey.  

Galaxygirl -  's &  's that you will have your very own family to take to Church, and be amongst the other families. 

Emmalottie - It makes me so   when people lie and it really interferes with innocent people's lives.  

To be honest, I'm not sure if I'm gonna make it to Church this Sunday - it's a family service as it's the end of the month, and I'm pretty sure that AF is on her way.  I guess I'll see how I feel on the morning.

 &   to everyone.


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## Tandi

Hello, 
oh just reading your posts makes me cry. This whole IF thing is soo soo hard. I understand completely feeling angry with God. I'm furious! (don't tell him  ) and going to church is so hard. I went for the first time in 6 months on Easter day (to a church I'd never been before). I found it okay, but didn't feel I could be open with God or other people there - I feel like I'm always holding myself back because otherwise emotions will take over.
I don't really have words of comfort, but I'm definitely still stuck on Good Friday and looking forward to Easter.... (I love that analogy - I think one of the hardest things is that sermons aren't always understanding of suffering and can seem glib and dismissive). I too get cross with messages and songs that seem to promise us the desires of our hearts when I know it's not that simple.
I don't really know what to say, apart from thanks to Jen, and Brighteyes, and Kehlan, and Julie and Galaxygirl ... for being so honest. It means the world to know we're not alone in this. 
Sending lots of   and some desperate  on behalf of us all.
Tandi x


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## poppy888

Hello Ladies,
Thank you for remembering me and my DH last week. Things are improving slowly but surely! I just had to step back and leave it up to God and now that I am no longer interfering, God is doing his work!    
IVF has been damaging to our relationship and we are not sure if we will try again. We are just going to focus on eachother for a wee while  
I am thinking of you all and pray that God answers your hearts desires  

Love 
Poppy xx


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## Cate1976

The suffering of Good Friday followed by the joy of Easter Sunday is a good one.  

Weejen, I understand where you're coming from when you say about child abusers being able to have children.  Back in October last year, the IF really hit me the weekend before my Nieces first birthday.  I got through a very tough week thanks to the senior leader of the church DH and I go to being amazing down to letting me sit in his office pouring my heart out after I caught him when he'd only gone up to write something up for a meeting he was in at the time with someone in the church office downstairs.  I did get to the voice cracking stage i was that upset.  See my signature and think about dates.  I've said to him that DH and I could feed, clothe and give a child the stable loving home they need to grow and develop needing help to have our own LO and yet there's people having LO's with no problem and then abusing them.  I've come to realise that all I can do is to keep trusting God and praying for all children who are being abused.  I'm a lot happier than I was now that we're on the waiting list for IVf which is quite short in our area.  DH and I are blessed that our church is like one big family.  There's been 13 babies born to members since February 05.  I cried on a friends shoulder during the dedication of the last one back in December.  All the Mums have been really good and I've been honest enough to say that I'm pleased for them but wish I could be among them and that if that made me sound Jealous I'm sorry.  They've all said it's only natural for me to feel like that.


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## snickers34

I'm shattered tonight - I think the injections are really kicking in ... I'll drop in tomorrow but just wanted you to know I'm thinking of you all.  

Sarah x


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## Klingon Princess

Cate, I think its normal to feel like that.  I usually go to the 8am service because its quiet and peaceful and all the kids are at the later mass.  but a woman goes sometimes and she has just given birth to her 9th baby, yes 9th. and i'm told she wants another one yet. I have to say they are the most well behaved kids Ive ever seen but it really seemed like God was rubbing it in....  (and i know he wasn't, it just felt that way at the time)

Kehlan


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## allyjo

Hi

Poppy So glad things are improving. DH and I where at the north coast for a weekend break- so beautiful there. I'll keep praying that things work out. It can be so hard making time for each other during the treatment. DH and I cope completely different and have different views on faith sometimes I just get really tired and drained and just want to give up - but then something happens which changes my mind.

Kehlan You really said alot of things that I feel too. but then I guess what doesn't break you makes you stronger. So very tuff and if that the case then be are going to be one of those strong men in the competitions that can 
pull a huge lorry 400m just by tying a rope around his waist - Do hope we don't get the mostaste to go with it though.

I liked the analogy too about good Friday and easter sunday. But oh my I'm sure we've been though and extra long good Friday. Just wonder what else we are going to be moulded to be and why now isn't God's perfect timing. Although I had an analogy that has helped me cope with the treatment unsucesses i've had. It was that although God is perfect we are reliant on human intervention and some times we as humans don't get the right mix of DNA in the embryo's transfered so that God's plan and purpose for our children can be complete or that we may need a total different set of DNA put it's our parenting skills that makes' God plan work.  However I didn't realise (I can be quite naive at times) that the SW can make such a mistake with their reports. I know it the safety of children but isn't that why we want to give a child a home... and to be called mum .

Sunday past was the first sunday since the transfer that I didn't cry and actually didn't mind talking to people on the way out. I'm sure people will start thinking i'm a moody cow as some times I march out of church and run for the safety of my car hoping I make it there before I cry uncontrollably. Could go a night where there's less people but then I'd miss out on the community within the church

9 Babies. Whao my family all have large families. but i'd settle for 1 but would love 2. still don't want to be too gready.

I'll say a pray for all of us tonight
Ally


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## Cate1976

Got to work today and was looking at a magazine, it's actually 2 weeks old but it's saying Britney Spears is pg.  Well I let rip saying that she shouldn't have gotten pg cos of what she's done to the 2 LO's she already has.  She has emotional/psychological problems which IMO she should have got sorted before having LO's.  I said that there's people like Britney having LO's and not looking after them and yet there's couples who can't have Lo's and it's not fair.  Feeling sensitive at the moment anyway as it should have been my Nan's birthday yesterday.  She died on 8th February but we didn't find out until the next day.  DH has just said that if Britney wants ton get pg, why shouldn't she?  Hmmn lets think on that one.


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## Tandi

Hi Cate, 
Just wanted to say I understand being so frustrated about other people's pgs, especially 'unplanned' ones. Grrrrrrr 
God knows why.... thank goodness he does, because I can't understand any of this.
Sending hugs  
Tx


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## Cate1976

It's so frustrating.  All we can do is keep trusting God.


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## Tandi

I know, but it's harder to actually do.. do you have days when you just don't trust God with this? or do you have any advice on trusting? I'm just mostly angry at the moment.
Tx


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## snickers34

Understand where you're coming from Cate - life does seem very unfair at times, but I always think there will be someone who has things I want and there will be someone who wants the things I have.  

It does seem totally irresponsible of Britanny to have another child, but I can be grateful for example I have a stable relationship.  Unfortunately that's the reality of life.  

Just watched the Martin Luther King story on BBC2 - made me feel mad that white people treated black people so abominably - I don't think I could have stood back as a passifist - he had amazing strength in the face of injustice and suffering.  His faith and message has inspired me.  

My thoughts are with you all, especially Weejan, Kehlan and Galaxy Girl.  It is so hard to understand why God allows us to suffer these things and allow others to have children so easily.  I just wish I knew the answer.  

About a year ago I was so angry with God and was ready to jack it all in, but I just couldn't face the thought of not being able to talk to God, even if only to tell him how angry I was at him.  I don't understand why he has taken me down this path, but I know he is with me (as much as a contradiction as that sounds) and he sent his son to die for me.  I find my faith is very small for much else.  My Dad died of cancer 3 years ago and I have struggled since then to pray specifically.  I'm hanging in here though because I can't face life without God, it would just be too empty.  My Dad believed in God till the end and his faith was so strong, he never doubted God was with him, I hope I will stand now and if I'm ever faced with anything that would take me life.  Sorry this is a bit heavy, didn't mean it to be.

Thanks for reading

Sarah x


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## Tandi

Hi Sarah, 
This stuff is heavy. We live every day with the raw reality of life and death through our IF. Maybe we are more alive because of that. I certainly don't take things for granted anymore... and maybe unlike people with unplanned pregnancies, I certainly know that a baby is a miracle. 
Sending   
Tandi x


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## Cate1976

I can honestly say that when you're finding it hard to trust God, the best thing to do is to ask people who you know and trust to pary for you and pray with you as well.  There are loads of comforting verses in the Bible.  The main thing I've done is asking my church family to pray and also listening to worship music.  One song which gets me is called Only You.  There's a line in the chorus which goes 'Only You can answer my heart's cry'.  It really hit home for me when it was sung in church after the dedication of the 13th baby born to church member since February 05.  I'd cried on a friend's shoulder all through the actual dedication.  The other song (no recordings of best version I've heard) is My Jesus I Love Thee,  there's a line in the chorus which goes 'If ever I loved Thee my Jesus tis now'.  It reminds me to keep trusting God.  The best version I could find of the first song is Andy Park's (Vineyard worship leader).  The other song is on quite a few albums, the best IMO is on the album released by Kingsway at the end of last year called Hymn for Worship or Integrity Music's album Hymns 4 Worship Just as I am.  I also found the book 'Coping with Infertility' by Vera Snow comforting.  When I read it, I was wondering if part of the problem after the IF hit me was that I was grieving for the baby DH and I don't have.  Reading the book made me realise that I was.  It was after the dedication that my fantastic senior leader said I needed to find  away through it and I did.  The only thing I'm struggling with is the unfairness of people like Britney Spears.  Google only found an article from The Sun dated 20th February showing her bump.  Britney's official website is being redone.  The magazine was Now.


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## snickers34

Hi Cate, know what you mean - I've got a few people in the know praying for me which is really comforting - I keep thinking maybe God will answer their prayers, if he doesn't answer mine   

Got a bit of a shock in church today when one of the retired ministers (who married us) came up to congratulate me on my pregnancy as there were rumours going round about me expecting.  Thank goodness I was feeling quite strong and was able to laugh it off.  I'm concerned now who has started this rumour and mainly why?!  Just makes me feel even more pressure now for this to work, I've decided to be positive and if it doesn't work and I go to pieces, then I'll just have to sort myself out then.  I'll be glad when this is over to be honest, it is really hard.  

Sorry for the rant 

x


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## Tandi

HI Snickers, 
Just wanted to send you a hug. Well done for keeping going when someone congratulated you on your pregnancy. I don't know how you managed  
This is just so tough and I'm so proud to be part of such an amazing bunch of women. Sending you    
and  
Tx


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## galaxy girl

Thought I would update everyone on where I'm at. It was my nephew's baptism service at church last week. I went and we ended up in the front row - right in front of the choir. I was fine until the first song and then broke down in tears right in front of everyone. Feel pretty miserable. 2 new pregnancy's announced this week too. Including a SIL.


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## Julie Wilts

It's so hard isn't it.  I've always thought of Church as being somewhere safe, but it doesn't always feel like it.  My vicar (who used to be my teacher at primary school) saw me holding a friend's baby recently and said "oh, you'll get broody for no 3 if you aren't careful".  My friend kindly pointed out that I only had DD and she was terribly embarrassed.

I didn't make it to Church last wknd because DH was sick and I had to be at home to take care of DD.  Hoping to pop in tomorrow (not for a service), before my basting.  Just for a "chat" and some peace.

It's so hard to when so many people (inc. SIL) are announcing happy news all around you, but you're feeling low.     You will be joining them soon. 

Take care. XXX


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## Suzie

Just wanted to pop by and say that I am proud to be a part of ff and a part of this board 

Church at times had been really tough for me as it has for all of you, especially as I am married to the ministers son and I must have heard a hundred times from members that FIL will make a fab grandad   

Since fostering we have been feeling that this is what gods plan is for dh and I , It has taken me a long while to get over the anger that god hasnt blessed us with our own child but I can honestly say that he wanted us to become foster parents and bring children into our home to give them a safe secure environment 

xx


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## Cate1976

I've found pg's hard at times as well.  Christmas Day last year, Mum and Dad were staying with DH and I.  Before they left, my sister had given Mum 2 envelopes, one for them and one for DH and I with instructions that we were to open them together.  The news was that she's pg due in August.  I was pleased for her but wished it could have been DH and I doing the announcing.  Lasted out until Mum and Dad left and then it really sunk in and it hurt.  I've accepted the situation now though.  DH and I are on waiting list for IVF and hope to be starting in September.


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## Julie Wilts

Morning ladies

Another lovely service at Church this morning, but once again another announcement of a friend who's pg.  Fabulous news for her expecting #2, and actually I feel just fine about it, and am so glad that I went today.

Hope other people felt strong enough to go today.
Julie
XXX


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## Cate1976

In church today, there was an 8 week old and a 5.5 mnth old.  A couple of months ago, I'd have found it really hard but today it didn't bother me.  Told my amazing senior leader and he was really pleased.  Being able to cope with 2 babies shows how far I've come the last 2.5 mnths.


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## Julie Wilts

Cate - That's great hun.  I felt so much stronger today too.  Long may it continue  . XXX


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## Cate1976

I was really down during January, spent  alot of time laying down listening to worship music.  Did a fair bit of whinging to my senior leader who has been brilliant since the IF hit me back in October.  Think the whole story is somewhere in this thread.


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## Julie Wilts

Hey Feehilyfan,  

Hope you are feeling OK today, and no migraines yet.  Will be sending out lots of   & sending up some   for 2.30pm for you.  Hope all your appointments go ok.

Julie
XXX


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## Julie Wilts

So glad you haven't got any migraines, and great news that your parents can sort out your transport.  .  Hope you enjoy the sedative if nothing else  .

I've got a sympathy rumbly tummy today - feeling really sicky but sure it's only a bug coz DH was ill last night.  

Wow, don't think I've ever been called a blessing, but thank you for saying so  .  In Church yesterday I thanked God that he'd brought me to you and all the other lovely people on FF who have lifted me recently.

Lots and lots of luck for this afternoon hun.
XXXX


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## Julie Wilts

You're welcome hun.

Sorry to hear Carole is poorly too - there are so many poorly bears at there at the moment.  Surely you can't catch something over the internet from other FF   (apart from FF addiction that is  ).


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## Julie Wilts

I said last night in chat that I think FF need to set up a sister site for FF addicts to deal with their addiction issues.  I'd be a definite member.


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## Julie Wilts

- My DH would too.  He does (reluctantly) admit thought, that it's making me smile more than I have in a long time, and I don't feel so alone anymore.  

Plus, he can't whinge because he spends a lot of time on ******** friendly poker games.


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## Julie Wilts

Good job I don't pay per minute/hour for my internet collection too  .


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## Julie Wilts

I could never have afforded to join FF that's for sure.


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## Bluebelle Star

I started this thread and then forgot which section I had started it in! Oops! I just wanted to say a big thank you for all that shared, I've read a lot of it and it is so wonderful to know I am not alone. I'm still struggling with Church but keep trying!


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## Klingon Princess

So much has happened since I last posted here.  I had my 11th treatment in June.. finally they let me have IVF and a miracle happened or so I thought.  I got pregnant.  I remember going to church and giving thanks to God for the wonderful miracle... and looking back, its funny, I had absolutely no doubts at all that in 9 months I would have a baby, it never occurred to me that anything could go wrong.  God had finally given me my baby.  

Except... a few days later, I started to bleed and exactly one week after getting my BFP., I had a m/c.  Since then Ive had another failed FET and am facing going abroad for one final attempt.

I havent been to church since the m/c. I can't face it and I can't pray or even talk to God.  I don't know if I will ever be able to forgive him.


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## galaxy girl

keelan. So sorry to hear of your loss. It must be devastating.
I can understand your feelngs re church. 

as for me I had an absence from church for a about 6 months after a public meltdown during a double baptism. I started to really miss it though. I knew I would find chrstmas hard - especially as there was yet another baptism that morning. But managed it and felt a bit stronger after that. My new strategy is to count throught the entire baptism so that I don't focus on the words - tried it again on Sunday and it worked.


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## gingerbreadgirl

Hi
I just came across this post after bizarrely waking up this morning thinking "why am I struggling to go to Church at the moment", could not have come across this thread at a better time, once again, there is no experience that has not been dealt with on FF. As last year was my first year at regularly attending Church I suppose I didnt appreciate the impact that the whole nativity experience would have on me. In many ways I have never felt so comforted as I have this last year with my faith, but over the Christmas period never have I felt quite so angry with God or quite so isolated in a community of happy families. I have just printed the sermon that was linked on the first page of this thred and will spend some time reading it. Kehlan I am so sorry for your loss.   Somebody posted in this thread that they find it easier to pray for others than themselves. I completely agree.
I see that this thread slowed down for a while, it would be great if it picked up again

GG
xxx


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## scubababe

Hi all,

I came across this thread by mistake - I'm so sorry you've finding it hard to pray etc. I do understand - although we've only just started TTC, I've wanted my own child for years. It got worse after I remarried someone who had 2 kids already. They live with us for most of the week, and the youngest was only 2 when we married...to cut a long story short he initially refused to have another child after we married, so it was very hard to cope with the kids living with us as I couldnt escape even at home (its not their fault and they deserve all the love I can give). And like others of you, there are several families in the congregation with no apparent problems when any of them wanted another one! Its easier now he's happy to have another child and we can at least try, but I am fertility-challenged to say the least, so am not expecting an easy road.

But please dont feel angry at God, as being childless and upset isnt what he wants for you. Dont forget he lost his own Son for us, so he can understand. You could say "if he cares so much, why doesnt he give me a baby?" That's a good question - but the other side of it is that our ancestors told him to get lost and that they could do things their own way, they didnt need him. I think if it that had been me, I'd have been mighty annoyed after what I'd done for them and left mankind to it forever! Luckily he's much more forgiving than me and he's still watching out for those who love him. He promises in the Bible that once that whole issue of man needing him is prooved once and for all, he'll put everything right for those who are faithful to him. But its hard to wait, I know....

One comforting thought I read is that just because we question, it doesnt mean we have to worry we're unfaithful (which would make it hard to pray, vicious circle). Malachi and Job questioned, as did some of the Psalmists. And remember Abraham getting annoyed about Sodom & Gomorrah being destroyed and questioning God about finding righteous people living there (and reducing his numbers each time, lol)? Facing things and understanding is what makes us stronger. And communication with God has to be honest - no point saying "thank you, life's wonderful" if its not. We wouldnt say that to our best human friend, so why would we say that to God in prayer? Anyway, he's the one person we can never fool, lol, so we may as well be honest with him and tell him how we feel.

Hope I havent gone on too much, just couldnt not post anything! Even a little faith is surely more comforting than none!

Sandy
xxxx


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## Cate1976

I've never been tempted to not go to church cos although some days have been hard seeing all the LO's, there's always been someone to talk to or at least someone has asked how I am and when I've said hanging in there or been honest, I've got a hug. Most people are aware of the situation DH and I are in. The church we go to is like being part of one big family so we've had a lot of support the last 4 years. I've found the story of Hannah in 1 samuel 1 encouraging.


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## gingerbreadgirl

cate and scubababe
your messages are very encouraging. It is great that you have taken the time to offer your thoughts and encouragement on this thread. I completely agree that God hasnt wanted any of us to suffer. Those darn ancestors of ours   I am in the middle of my second ICSI cycle and this one has been so much easier than the first when I was so angry with God and the world! To those who are feeling let down or struggling with their faith I say one thing - hang in there. Keep praying and you will find unbelievable  strength and love where you thought there was none
GG
xxxx


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