# Is there a clinic for 46+ using own eggs? Help!



## Quartz

Hello All, I've been struggling to find a clinic who will help me try IVF with my own eggs. It seems 45 is the cut off age for a lot of clinics. Does anyone know of a clinic where I could try? I feel panicked! X


----------



## Zebbie(

Hello there 

The Lister treated me with own eggs at 47.  They were very honest about the small chance of sucess and we have moved to donor eggs now.  But was important for us to try with our own first.

Good luck 

Zebbie


----------



## Quartz

Ah wonderful, finally a clinic! Like you it's important for us to try with my own eggs. I haven't been able to get my head round donor eggs but I guess that's the next step if this doesn't work. Good luck to you and thanks for your reply! XX


----------



## daisyg

Hi Quartz,

I am sure you are very aware of the stats for your age group.  However, I do agree that before moving on (or not) finding closure with your own eggs is so important if you can afford to do this.

This Lister are a very, very good clinic and I hope you can have one cycle with OE if that is what you want (while of course being realistic).

However, as someone who did several OE cycles between age 44 and 44.5 and also several DE cycles which all ended in miscarriage, I would just like to add some advice before you cycle.

Basically, the most common cause of failure for those of our age is old eggs, (chromosomally abnormal eggs) and nothing but DE can fix this.  However, there are other issues which can affect your ivf cycle and also DE should you move to this.  

I would ask your GP and /or Lister for some precycle tests just to eliminate common causes of failure.  These are tests I wish I had done at the beginning of my journey as it wasn't until several losses that I found issues which could have been treated.

DH and your karyotype to check for genetic issues
Your thyroid (TSH between 1 and 2, T3, T4 and antityroid antibodies)  Common cause of failure in over 40s.
Uterine checks (hysteroscopy for polyps/fibroids etc.  Do you achieve good lining/ triple stripe??)
DH Sperms issues (v. important inc. dna fragmentation)
Clotting issues
Infection for you and DH
Autoimmune issues
Immune issues

Wish you the best.  However, I believe there are only a handlful of live births achieved in the world at age 46 via own egg ivf, so I do believe this would be a cycle for closure only.

Daisy
x


----------



## urbangirl

You may find some clinics abroad would agree to treat you, but you will still have to harden yourself for the "Your eggs won't be good enough" speech, all the 43+ women get it, and although I feel it is fine to be realistic you never know if it applies to you until you try. You could be one of the lucky ones and when you have IVF they will tell you how good/bad the eggs appear and if any of your embryos are chromosomally abnormal. The oldest natural mother was a British woman who got pregnant at 59, so we all must have some good eggs left. As well as the tests DaisyG suggests it's a good idea to get as super-healthy as possible, take a look at the vits and supplements threads. The stats are _very_ low once you reach 43, a significant factor would be what fertility problem/s you have as well as age. In the end whether it's worth it basically comes down to whether you think you may be one of the exceptions. If everything 'down there' seemed to be working in perfect order still when I'm 46 I'd give it a go.


----------



## daisyg

Just to point out that sadly, IVF cannot tell you whether embryos are chromosomally abnormal.  Only IVF with PGS/PGD can do this.

Natural pregnancy is very different to ivf - and the rarity of women aged over 46 having a live birth whether through ivf or natural pregnancy is illustrated by the fact that it makes news!!  We don't all have good eggs left by any means sadly - otherwise the incidence of live births over 45 would be much higher than it is.

I do agree with Urbangirl that you really need to try for closure so that you can move on to DE or other solutions with a clear conscience and that you feel that you did all you could do - very important for peace of mind.

Sorry to be the voice of doom!!!

Best of luck whatever you decide,
Daisy
xxxx


----------



## urbangirl

Oh, my clinics told me my embryos were normal , I'll question them next time.
"Do it for closure" is not really my view. My view is try it out and if it seems to be going well, i.e the stimulation is good, eggs seem ok etc etc then _even if it doesn't work_ that will give a person the info they need to make a reasoned decision whether to give up or carry on going, whether you're 42 or 46 (and finance withstanding). That is my view because one big factor in IVF failure that people rarely factor in is sub-standard treatment, which happens even in well-regarded clinics, but they always say it's the woman's age and her terrible old eggs, which I (personally) don't believe.


----------



## Quartz

Girls, thanks for your words of realism and hope! The thing is, I know of a woman here who was successfil with IVF and her own eggs at 45 coming on 46. But I don't know her well enough to stride up and ask what clinic it was!    Although I think it was somewhere in Spain. Does anyone know about a good Spanish clinic? I'll try the Lister in the meantime. If anyone knows of any clinics further North that would be helpful too. Thanks! This whole thing is a head spin, totally emotionally exhausting. How do you all cope? I'm starting to feel a bit crazy   X X


----------



## alexine

Hi Quartz...there was a woman on FF who had a successful pregnancy using her own eggs at 47 and had treatment at the Lister. If I remember correctly her AMH at the time was somewhere near 12.
Good luck to you!     
xxA


----------



## daisyg

I think the woman you are thinking about is called Kazzie, and she talks about it here:-

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=261661.msg4429269;topicseen#msg4429269

D


----------



## heavenly

daisyg said:


> I think the woman you are thinking about is called Kazzie, and she talks about it here:-
> 
> http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=261661.msg4429269;topicseen#msg4429269
> 
> D


Thank you, that is a very informative thread.

I feel a bit lost at the moment. I have just turned 46, we have been TTC for 4 years. I am on cycle 2 of Clomid, FS has put me on 4 cycles of 50mg Clomid, which I am ovulating on.

After that, we will be looking at IUI/IVF. I never thought it would get to this, I really didn't. OH is getting an up to date SA done this week as his is 2 years old. I start acupuncture this Thursday. My FSH in November was 6.2 and I am getting my AMH done this Friday.

We don't have much money, so as much as I would love to try OE, we have to look at how many times we can try. We have discussed DE and it isn't something we are uncomfortable with.

I am scared.


----------



## heavenly

Well, I feel a lot more calm now.    We have come to terms with DE, we will have a chat with the Director of the Agora clinic in Brighton on 19th March,  when my AMH results are in, see what they suggest, they have no cut off age there.  But if there is practically no chance with my eggs, we will take a bit of a break, no more sticks, Clomid etc....just go back to NTNP....chill out a bit....and save up a bit more for DE...then we will go on the waiting list.  Good thing with DE, there is no rush, it's not dependent on my age!    I think that is the way to go and I feel a lot more calm now there isn't that panic of it having to happen naturally.  The end result would be the same, me and OH as parents...we are just changing course.


----------



## henriettta

I am now 46, have been trying now since age 42.5. First naturally, then tried 3 ivf at the Lister, then 2 iui at Lister, then a couple of natural cycles at Create and all negative despite the embryos at the Lister being 'grade 1' with almost no fragmentation.
I too thought that since I am generally healthy, have always had a regular 28 day cycle, look and feel much younger than I am and no specific problems except for a tiny fibroid, that all would be ok. We have tried ovulation sticks endlessly, stressed ourselves out with them to the point of arguments and all that but still not even a hint of anything in all these years. DH all normal or better than normal on his samples. Both have taken all the supplements, eating healthy, avoiding caffeine, no alcohol etc etc.
I thought I could surely defy the  statistics but have now started to face the reality and am looking at DE...took me a while to get my head around it and to this place. Never thought it would come to this either.....
And now I am having funny cycles the past two months with AF arriving on day 23....so getting worried about that too and what it means. sigh!


----------



## henriettta

ps. Both Lister and Create told me they treat up to age 46 and both had success in that age group too, although only one or two I think....


----------



## Holly7

Hi Quartz

I've just read your thread and wanted to tell you that I'm in a near identical situation to you. I have been researching this since last August and it has almost taken over my life. 

I found a clinic called Fertimed in Olomouc, Czech Republic which will treat you. I cant comment on them yet as i'm still procrastinating my decision to go ahead. I have never tried naturally with my own eggs till last August and since then my cycles have been messed (annovulatory) due to stress, a mad concoction of fertility supplements taken wrongly!, and of course perimenopause. 

One thing about this clinic is that they offer something called cystoplasmic egg transfer which is claimed to strengthen the outside part of the egg where the chromosome damage is found. This part of the egg is taken from a younger womans egg but preserves your nucleus or DNA. Its not legal in most places due to slight chance of a 3rd DNA being present (something less than 1%). I think this will change in the future. Guess you would need to research this area for yourself before making a decision to agree to it.

The price for IVF treatment there is cheaper than in the UK so you could afford more cycles. IVF with minimal stimulation is cheaper still and i've read that at our age its just as good as they dont expect to retrieve many or any eggs anyway. Though the CHR in New York who specialise in fertility treatment for older women disagree with this and recommend aggressive treatment. Again you would want to do  your own research before making any decisions. 

Finally, may i recommend that you do a search for Randine Lewis (the infertility cure) to see what she has to say about age and fertility. Also Julia Indichova (Inconceivable). There is always hope.

I think i'll bite the bullet and go in June for own egg IVF.

I wish you all the best

Holly


----------



## urbangirl

That sounds interesting, the legal restrictions sound similar to those who have a mitochondrial problem- those people want to be able to use their eggs but with healthy mitochondria from a donor and this also isn't allowed yet due to the resulting eggs having someone else's DNA in them, though similarly there is a push towards legalisation of this.  Funny how Czech Republik will allow something radical like this but won't let you do something standard like bring your own DS into the country!

Is the cytoplasmic egg transfer very expensive?  I know Czech clincs are very reasonable but something extra like this might be £££?  

I like the Indichova book, though she clearly didn't have a fertility problem, only a bad lifestyle problem and as soon as she sorted that out she was pregnant....
Really good luck in June, let us know how you get on.


----------



## Holly7

Hi

No the cystoplasmic transfer is very cheap, something like 200 euro. I can send you a price list for Fertimed if you like. This is the only clinic in Cz that offer it btw and i'm not sure why that is. Very few places in the world do it. I found some in India and America. Id recommend you read Randine Lewis. She has a super article online if you do a google search for 'improve egg health in 150 or 120 days' or some such. I can send you the link if you cant find it. I'm hanging on to it as my bible just now. My bloods are poor. Reprofit refused to treat me based on my age and my AMH of .07 which last July so who knows what it is now. Im undecided about mini stim or standard stim but will seek Dr Sobek's advise on that when i meet him. 

Hows things going with you?


----------



## urbangirl

Yes, please do send the price list, I'd consider doing this, for a natural cycle though, as I'm happy with my stimms at the moment.  I know the Randine Lewis book, it's very good, but a lot to take in.  I wanted to go on one of her retreats but sadly they charge far too much for them.
What do you mean when you say your bloods are really poor- you mean your day 3's? If you are having some kind of Chinese medicine I'm sure you can improve that because it's very good for sorting out hormonal imbalances. My AMH Is far worse than yours, by the way, and I got 9 eggs fertilised a couple of months ago so don't worry about that too much. The antral follicle count can vary wildly from month to month. 
Reprofit are definitely ageist, which is a shame, as they are a good clinic and get good results. It's like they think the menopause starts at 43    I think in Canada it's not even legal to treat anyone over 43!   I am having EC next week, though this month is not looking great, I may only get 2 or 3 eggs, but so long as they are in good condition and have the will to live I figure I'm in with a chance!


----------



## alexine

There are clinics in Canada that treat women up to 45 with their own eggs. Victoria Fertility http://www.victoriafertility.com/2p_about_us.htm
xxA

/links


----------



## urbangirl

Oh, I spoke to a really good one over there and they told me they couldn't treat me because of the law, in fact, you had be no more than 42 and 11 months 30 days, when you reached your 43rd birthday it was too late!!  Perhaps it was a part of Canada, Quebec or something, where they may have region-specific laws, can't remember.  Anyway, outrageous, and a lot of clinics do have an unofficial cut-off limit of 43, though they may not say that , they just refuse to treat.


----------



## alexine

It's possible Quebec does have different laws from the rest of the country...they tend to like to do things on their own.   Anyway I'm cycling at this clinic in July. 
xxA


----------



## LellyLupin

Try the James Cook University Hospital Clinic - Mr Mustapha.  I am 45 in 2 months and am awaiting my first round of ivf with my own eggs.  Mr Mustapha told me its not about your age but about the quality of your eggs.  Before he would give me any indication of chances he looked at my Antimalerian Hormone Test and my FSH and did a scan.  Luckily for me I have the fertilty of someone much younger, but I had already been written off by the NHS.    If I had listened to the NHS doctors I might never have got the chance to try.  Trust me, you can trust this man to tell it how it is, he was recommended to me by someone else.


----------



## urbangirl

It's very tough, I've contacted clinics for information telling them only that I'm over 40 and giving them my AMH, FSH etc etc and my IVF results, e.g embryo grading which has been very good so far.  But they just can't accept it- they have to know my exact age, they have to shoebox you.  It's infuriating, I ask 'can you give me an opinion, info etc based on the information I've given you, re hormones, no. of eggs recovered, etc etc'  but they won't.  Drives me mad


----------



## Ananda15

Medspa in Sofia, Bulgaria treat women up to age 51. I've had one IVF treatment there (unsuccessful) and am thinking about if I can face another   (I'm 45)
They don't pigeonhole you according to age but just work with your own individual situation. Highly recommend them. Message me if you want to know more  

Ananda x


----------



## ducks34

For what it's worth, my great-grandmother had my great-uncle when she was 49.  That was in 1921, no treatment, no meds, no amnio nothing. Her husband was 55 so presumably his mf was not that great. 

(My great uncle incidentally was totally healthy. He was the only boy out of 7 and turned into a total tearaway. He wrote off several cars that he was given by doting female relatives after the war!)


----------



## LellyLupin

Quartz, Jame Cook Hospital in Middlesbrough would take you, I am 45 and am using my own eggs.  Mustapha is the consultant and he is just fabulous.  Good luck xx


----------



## Beside_the_seaside

Hi - I'm aware this is an old post, but I've been looking into this question myself. Create and Lister have already been mentioned, but (without personal experience as yet) I think there are also a few other options, for example:

The Bridge Centre (One St Thomas Street, London Bridge, London) says on its website:
http://www.thebridgecentre.co.uk/fertility_services/fertility_for_the_over_forties
"Success rates do decline with age, but we are happy to treat women up to the age of 50 with their own eggs, depending on consultation with one of our specialists. You should, however, bear in mind that after 44 there is a less than 5% chance of achieving a pregnancy, and around a 90% chance of miscarriage and genetic abnormalities."

Also CRM London (Park Lorne 111 Park Road London NW8 7JL) www.ivfcliniclondon.com/ 
has advised me as follows "we will treat women up to their 51st birthday but we rarely have egg collections performed on patients over 46 years of age." So it seems that CRM might still consider treatment at age 46 or above, depending on an individual's profile, etc.

Wishing you all the best of luck


----------

