# A workshop for anyone facing fertility losses



## Mel

Letting Go & Coming to Terms...
A workshop for anyone facing fertility losses

In association with MoreToLife

September 11th & 12th, 2004
Saturday & Sunday 10am-6pm
Cost: £100
(some bursaries available)

Venue: London (exact locale TBA)

This workshop is for anyone who has experienced infertility, failed fertility treatment, miscarriage, ectopic pregnancy, premature menopause, secondary infertility, stillbirth, neonatal death, sperm problems or unwanted childlessness--whatever the cause. Women, men and couples are welcome.

Much lip service is paid to the need to come to terms with fertility losses. But how to do it? In this workshop, we begin by breaking the silence--telling our stories, naming and honouring our losses. Great care is taken to create a safe, compassionate atmosphere. Some Œways in¹ include visualisation, art therapy and movement--which help uncover buried feelings and provide safe means to express them. The exercises also help us reconnect to our inner wisdom.

Participants finish with a calmer heart and more clarity about the future.

Comments from those who attended in April 2001:

I feel significantly more positive & self confident....People are relating to me differently too--probably because I¹ve become less prickly & inward looking. I no longer feel isolated & I am beginning to look forward instead of dwelling on the past....--Katie

An important experience for me--I feel I moved on...--Lindsay

I feel like I¹ve undergone a rite of passage...--Julia


FACILITATOR: Meredith Wheeler: I'm a transpersonal psychotherapist who has facilitated fertility groups for 14 years. Based on that experience I wrote a Practice Guide for the British Infertility Counselling Association (BICA) on therapeutic group work for fertility problems-A Creative Approach to Group Work for Women with Fertility Problems. I specialised in this field as a result of my own experience of infertility.

Before moving to France, I served on the Executive Committee of BICA. For many years I was Editor-in-Chief of the Journal of Fertility Counselling, BICA's professional journal. I'm originally from the United States (near Chicago), a graduate of Stanford University.

To book on-line, email for a registration form. Some bursaries are available to people who are unemployed or on low incomes. Otherwise please pay in advance.

To find out more about the workshop, contact:

Meredith Wheeler
St. Martin de Dauzats
Lautrec, 81440 France
Tel: (00 33) 563 59 11 32
Fax: (00 33) 563 59 11 31
email: [email protected]

I have many articles written by men and women who have taken part which I can email, as well as my own writing about the fertility support groups.


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## astrid

Hi Mel and Jac
Thanks for the information, it has been interesting reading.
I am alittle confused (you always get one). Do you think it would be worth going to one of these meetings for women coming to terms with a 'childless future'. I was looking for a place or a get together for women who are in a similiar position as myself possibly facing a childless future...
What would be the best suggestion can you help?
Thanks astridxx


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## Mel

Hi Astrid

I know Jac highly recommends Merediths workshops and it helped both her and Chase a great deal, i personaly havnt been to one of her meets so maybe asking Jac is the way to go but from what i have heard it does sound beneficial and i think you would get something out of it.

Mel

x x x


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## suzyp

Dear Mel

Same question as Astrid really - would the workshop be of anybenefit for those of us who have decided to live with childnessless? If so could you email me a registration form please - thanks alot

Sue Parker


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## astrid

hi mel
Thanks for taking the time to get back to me..
Like Sue i am interested in the workshop and to also meet others in the same position..
Where would I have to go to get further details..Also if you are around Jac can you advise me further (if you get five mins) i would apprieciate it.
Hi Sue how are you keeping?

Thanks Astridx


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## astrid

hi jac
Thanks for taking some time out to explain all details about the workshop. I am not quite sure if i am ready for this as we may embark on one more tx and i feel abit mixed up about letting go lots of emotions.. I will contact Meridith anyway and will see where to go from there.
Thanks for all your time and energy..
love astridxxxxx


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## Nicky

Hi Mel & Jac - do you know if any more workshops are planned in the near future, as I can't make this particular weekend and had planned to attend?

Love Nicky xxxxx


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## Mel

Hi Nicky

Meredith holds a few worshps a year, i dont know her dates, it may be worth phoning her and asking.

Love

Mel x x


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## Nicky

Thanks Mel - I've made contact with Meredith and will post future dates (if that's okay??) for anyone else unable to join the September 
workshop.

Thanks again - much love Nicky xxxxxx


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## Nicky

...just to let you know Meredith has been in touch. At the moment, there are no other UK dates planned currently.

Love Nicky xxxx


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## sas jane v

hi girls - this sounds a good w/e and thanks Nicky for asking about other dates Im thinking about giving it a whorl as we are coming close to stopping - anybody else interesred ? cant see my dh wanting to go so I wuold go on my own I think

Sarah xx


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## sas jane v

Thanks Jac for your words of encouragement - it sounds a positive way of dealing with what is for some of us years of different emotions and i think a good spring clean would help a lot of us make room again for all the good things to come in our lives

thanks again 


Sarah xx


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## Juel

Hi all 

I might be interested in future dates,not sure that Dave would though,so maybe we could get a few of us together Sarah to hold each others hands! 
luv
juels xx


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## sas jane v

sounds good to me Juel can you make Sept??
Astrid - thanks for your IM - and yes am thinking of going -will ring Meredith first - cant seem to email her at the mo
anybody else interested 

Sarah xx


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## Bel07

Hi Sarah

I wouldn't mind going seeing as I have met both you and Juel. My DP would defo not go.

Let me know.

Love Bel xx


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## LucyEgg

Hi ladies

Hope you don't mind me butting in but I asked a member of More to Life about this workshop, and who should attend, and I quote:

"This workshop is for MTL people only – so people have to have stopped treatment. 

She does run workshops for more open groups and that’s why we decided to have one only for MTL people"

This obviously is a contradiction to what Jac said earlier on this post (sorry Jac!), so I will seek clarification today. 

I don't want to put anyone off at all, and I don't mean to offend anyone when I say this, but as someone who is still less than a year into learning to live their life childfree, I would not at this stage feel comfortable attending a workshop such as this alongside other infertile couples who are continuing treatment. I know we all have experienced infertility losses of many different kinds, and I respect that, but I personally need to feel safe amongst other men/women/couples who are also coming to terms with their childlessness.

I apologise if anyone is offended by my post, it isn't intended to offend, just to try to explain the needs of someone who is attempting to live child free!

Love
Lucy
xxx


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## sas jane v

Hi Lucy - thanks for your post and nice to hear from you again.if you could clarify this for us as I think it would help as I know I havent quite finished tx but am nearly there mysef
perhaps a more open workshop might suit some of us and others may prefer that everyone has stopped tx .I can certainly understand that

thanks Lucy and hope you and dh are well

Sarah xx


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## Fee

just wondered if anyone went to this, and what people thought about it


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## sas jane v

Hi everyone - have spoken to meredith about the workshop and am booking up for Feb 2005 dates are 19-20 (Sat/Sun) London -possibly Neals Yard Convent Garden if anybody else interested 
  also anybody knoy anywhere cheap and cheerful to stay - have got rellies down there but might not be a good idea this time i thought

  you can book thru email to meredith/tel no

be nice to meet some ffriends there too


      sarah x


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## jayneanthea

Hello

I have been reading through the messages and probably had a bit of a reality check. I was very over enthusiastic about trying another ICSI but then read about the hydrosalpinx and best having them removed (I had a natural ectopic in Jan 2000 so have just one tube left - hydro). I have to be realistic and I just jumped onto the idea of trying another cycle. If we don't try ICSI again then our chances of ever having a family are finished. I was diagnosed with depression in March of last year - refused to take any medication and dealt with it myself through friends, herbalist and just being honest with myself over matters and being strong. We looked at adoption again in September of last year and were told by two agencies that they would not consider us for at least two years following depression diagnosis. As I was adopted myself, I had always been very keen to follow this route however this also has caused problems. Because I do not have the standard mum/dad and natural mum/dad - I was partly raised by my adopted dad's brother and his wife (is it too confusing>) - I have in essence three sets of parents. All my dads died when I was Adopted Dad - 16, Uncle (who was the closest) - 20 and Natural Dad - 30. I have now an adopted mum who is 87 and aunt who is 79 - both of whom are unwell. My natural mother and I do not really exchange in any way.

2 of the Adoption agencies have ruled me out completely due to this background and that I will have to come to terms with the death of my adopted mum and aunt over the next few years.

I realised tonight through reading various messages that we are really stumped. Our only option is to go through more ICSI which at my age and with FSh of 12.5 is pretty unlikely to be positive (sorry I am usually really really positive!!). I wouldn't go with egg donation just because of my own ethics - I know how it is to find out parents are who you thought and it can be pretty devastating particularly if natural parents want you to be their 'own'. There is also the messiness of it all - you are the parents but genetically you are not. Probably because it has been an issue in my own life I couldn;t put another child through it. With adoption (which both DH and myself would much prefer to do - looking after the ones that are here in need of a family - there is no pretence.

What can we do? 

Any thoughts would be really appreciated.

Jayne


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## jayneanthea

ps  just noticed a couple of errors when rereading my email and it was too late to change them!  .... to realise your parents AREN'T who you thought and THREE agencies turned us down for at least two years due to depression. Also, the other reason given was that I would have to deal with mum and aunt dying over next few years........ meanwhile there are hundreds of children out there waiting and just looking for a bit of different start in life......   Is there any sense in it ?  I am a mentor for a child who is having difficulty at home through a local agency, we are both really decent people actively involved in our village and have a really strong support network of friends.  Brrrrr just feel a bit hard done by I suppose!!!


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## astrid

hi jayne
My heart goes out to you both, i think you have been through so much. I also think there is no justice for some people. If there is someone that understands issues on adoption, wanting a child and giving it a good home with loving parents, you sound like the ideal couple.
I am sorry that i haven't really got alot of experience in this area, but i definately think this is unfair. Have you thought about looking at another health authourity? Do all the rules apply to each county council? Have you thought about the fostering route, or would that be the same? Do they not understand that going through infertility brings on depression? wheres the compassion?
Have you thought about adoption from abroad?
I am sorry if i have already answered your questions, but there must be some hope for you both out there.
Please do not give up....
love astridxxxxxx


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## jayneanthea

Hi Astrid

Thank you so much for answering my message .  I cannot begin to say how I appreciated finding this tonight! I am feeling more positive today   - I think it was just reading through the messages that made me face reality a bit!  

I am back on the idea that ICSI may be successful.  As for adoption overseas - yes we would both like to do this but it does involved exactly the same home study procedure through our local authority but we just pay for it (£3000 approx).  So there is little chance there at the moment.  Fostering is also something we both like as it would give us the chance to offer maybe only a few days of stability and calmness for children in distressing situations.  I have always admired people who do this and have spoken at length to a few (the lady in the bed next to me when I had the ectopic emergency surgery told me she was a foster carer and was so kind to me, I thought it was a way forward for us then).  The rules are the same - maybe after the two years are up - the local authority may consider us - I don't know.  I just know that I need something to keep me going! and that in  the future by some means we will have some sort of family.  The mentoring is rewarding but it is not having a child to raise thats part of our family 'unit'.

I have to say I was a little grieved at being told by our local authority that I should put my energies into something else!  I have returned to university (now 2nd year BSc Environmental Biology (Hons)) and really enjoy it and have career plans in place (I am a fundraiser and so plan once I graduate to work for an environmental/green charity).  

All this is wonderful and I love it but there is still something missing which I believe now after all these years is still to have a family.  It seems as though although I had a loving family around me I am not destined to have my own family ever - not behind me or in front of me - so sometimes I feel it is hard.  Adoption seemed a good way to use what I had experienced to help another child to have a good/different life just as I was given that opportunity.

We have been ttc for 7 years now with one ectopic pregnancy, one attempt at ICSI, drugs started for non defrosted embies, looked at adoption, fostering, surrogacy, egg donation and now back to ICSI!  It may have been wasted time but at least I have looked at depth at all the options.  If nothing else, DH and I dont do anything lightly!!!

I ma going to Salisbury clinic in March to talk honestly with Mr Fountain and see what he says.  I need the honestly but really dont know how I shall cope with it if it not what I want to hear!!

Anyway,  thanks again for your message  

Jayne
X


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## sas jane v

jayne - hi there and welcome to the thread - i read your post and can certainly understand your frustrations at the adoption route !!!
sadly my dh and I were in fact turned down at panel for family problems which were not due to myself or dh in any way but were felt to have caused too many problems for adopted children to be placed with us...in reality my husband and I have a nice house good friends etc and the social workers were very pro us until they found out about this...
this of course has been devastating and while I would not wish to put you off if you decide to go ahead please be prepared for having everything analysed in extreme detail
...I can honestly say now if i had known how stressful it was going to be I perhaps would not have done it but sometimes in life we have to do these things just to know what if my dh and I have decided to stop tx and try and get on with our lives which we feel is our way forward after 11 years ttc and numerous IVF attempts
...this may not be the right option for you and dh at this stage but there are many people like us who do go on and have happy lives without children something that can seem so impossible to those of us in the middle of tx etc

    I wish you luck in your decisions

            Sarah x


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## astrid

hi jayne and sarah
I think that you are both strong people and look as if you have tried everything in your power to try and get the families that you both have wanted all these years.
I think we put ourselves through all these hardship of going through tx and adoption because we want an end result and that is a family. I am a firm believer in that you have to do what is right for you and your partner. I think it is important to get peace of mind with yourself because if you don't then you cannot move on.I nurse people and they often have regrets for what they didn't do in the past. I have learned from them that its not good to look back and have regrets.
The worse thing to face is when those options have been taken away from us and we do not have a choice of A or B. So because of this we look for all possible options of going for tx, adoption so forth and when we have exausted all of these then we can only move forward...Its so hard though..
I think follow your instincts and do what is right for you and your partner...
Go for it Jayne and goodluck with what ever you do.....thanks sarah for helping me to see that there is a future somewhere out that.
love astridxxxxxxxxx


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## sas jane v

hi Astrid- have just read your posts to Tash and you have been a great help there and having read some of your other posts some time ago -it sounds like you are really making progress with your life 
...I agree the counselling is helpful and it turns out my counsellor cant have kids either and has now a happy life and has come out the other end which helped me enormously
still feel a long way to go but am looking forward to the workshop in London next w/e for letting go and will report back - i know at least one other ffriend is going probably more hopefully
take care 
        sarah xx


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## astrid

hi sarah
Goodluck with the workshop, i have heard some really good reports about meridith..maybe i will look at her next workshop, cause i am still hanging in there just not quite 100% sure about giving up treatment.
Thanks for your comments thats really kind of you.
Strange isn't it but i have started on a ward where my ward manager has been through infertility and she has also come out the other end. There were no children for her unfortunately, but she has managed to build a life for herself. She has been so supportive and i cannot believe how selfless she is, as it must hurt her when i have talked about it on a couple of occassions. She is an inspiration i am sure very much like your counsellor.
I cannot believe how the counselling has helped and it sounds as if you have benefitted also. What i feel that i have gained from it, is finding ourselves again and the art of laughing and not thinking about 'what if? Although there are down days, it is getting easier....
Please let me know how you get on with the workshop.

Love astridxxx


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## jayneanthea

Hi Astrid and Sarah

Thank you both for your messages.  Sarah, it must have been really difficult to have opened your life up to scrunity like this. It must have been like a final blow and so unfair.  (My mantra - I will not become bitter!!!) I am really pleased  to know counselling is helping.  It is good to be able to say what you think to someone who is not related to you or a friend.  I have to add I think it is difficult to take advice from women with children as although they may have the most understanding and empathetic approach - I honestly believe it is only possible to really know how it feels if you have experienced it.  So it's really good that you have someone who genuinely knows how it feels and has got passed that and has side-stepped onto another path to follow - still acknowledging though that it all happened.

I spoke with Meredith this week and I too, Astrid, was unsure whether I am able to let go at the moment.  I think if it started it wouldn't stop and I need to be in a pretty fit state to get on with everything else in my life!! Also, I suppose I feel if I let go of my grief then I won't have anything at all. That sounds stupid but if I didn't feel this 'grief ' - the immense magnitude of sadness over not having children would be trivialised as though it wasn't that important. And it has dominated my life for seven years trivialising everything else during that time that I have tried to 'replace' it with.  Replacement, I know does not work - but it took me a very, very, very long time to see that..!!!  On saying this I do want to be happy and not feel sometimes like a victim of how my life could have been - so maybe the workshop will be something to consider at a later date.  Very few people know about our infertility - two very close friends only (who incidentally are both 41 - same age as me and both have two children each under 4). 

The workshop sounds great though.  Having spoken with her for such a short time, I have to say she inspired me.  DH and I are planning to move to France once I have no responsibilities here (elderly aunt and mum) and had hoped it would be with three of us!  Deep down that is how I still see it.  Anyway, I have to say I think the course is going to be really good.  I am very tempted but maybe next time. Living in 'zummerset' - we don't  venture up town much!    Though wellies have been a fashion statement this year so I am told.....

Thank you both so much for messages - it is so reassuring to read something and think - I thought I was the only one who thought that or had felt a certain way  

Astrid, what are your plans?  Sarah, I hope the workshop is good for you. 


Jayne


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## astrid

h jayne amd sarah
How are you both?Sarah how did you get on with the weekend,i hope that you are coping because it must have been very difficult at times. I have been thinking about you. When you feel ready maybe you wouldn't mind sharing the experience?
Jayne, i have just read your message and i could really relate to what you were saying. Its true when you make that decision to move forward, then it will feel final and like you i am not ready for that at this moment. Also when you said that you still think that there is going to be a three, i think thats how i feel deep down. Although a big part of me still feels that i am going to be a small statistic of people who are going to be childless and gradually i am slowly accepting it, but not fully.. Jayne i don't know about you but when i started this journey i never thought in my wildest dreams that i would be telling this story how many years later.Like you i am 41 years old next month and the pressure of age has been the hardest thing for me to accept. I thought we had some chance because like you i was in my early 30's when we first started trying.I suppose thats just the way it is, its been a hard experience, but it is getting easier with time.

Its been nice chatting to you, keep in there and follow your heart. Don't rush anything, i think it eventually falls into place....its just acccepting things.I nurse patients and they say never take the 'hope' away from someone because that takes away the future and takes away that thing called hope......(if that makes sense).

We are looking at also going abroad sometime in the future, its nice to know that there is some positive things out there to look forward to...maybe we will end up being neighbours?
Yep you are right 'wellies' are in fashion this year and i have a great pair....
love astridxxxxxxxxxxx


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## sas jane v

Hi Astrid and Jayne and thank you for your thoughtful replies -we are all on such a similar journey it certainly helps to chat to others going thru it
  as for the workshop it is 19/20 so this w/e coming
I am treating myself to the new exhibition at the Tate Monet etc on Fri pm and then staying the w/e 
-feeling a bit nervous but looking forward to it in a way -will be packing some kleenex in there with me !!!
Meredith does sound very reassuring and has been thru some infertility herself -dont know the details
but the workshop sounds interesting too as we will be doing some art and stuff -as I do pottery I like getting things in a mess
  will let you both know how it goes and fully appreciate there is a time and a place for these things when you feel ready
...incidentally when you talked about grief Jayne there is certainly a lot still there but there is also some relief at times and as my counsellor has said sometimes having a void in your life gives you room to grow into it - that may sound a little trite to you but it has helped me as some days still feel very empty but hope that with time that will get easier

speak soon

  take care
      sarah x

p.s.quite fancy France too -will you be doing B&B ?


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## jayneanthea

Hello Sarah

How was the workshop ?  I really wish I had attended now but will probably do so next year - I have emailed Meredith about it.

Hope you are ok and it helped to move something forward or had a positive outcome for you.

Look forward to hearing from you

Jayne


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## Laine

Hey Jayne,

Just wanted to welcome you to the Living Childfree Board.

Have you decided what to do next?

Laine x


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## astrid

hi girls
I hope is all well??
How are you Jayne?
Sarah are you ok? Is everything ok at the moment? when you are ready it would be nice to know how you got through the weekend with Merdith. As Jac said she is supposed to be wonderful and gentle...
Thinking of you...
love astridxx


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## Laine

Just to let you know that Sarah has posted about the workshop on the chat thread x


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## astrid

hi laine.
Thankyou for letting me know, when i looked on the workshop chat thread i realised that Sarah had posted there....
Thanks..
love astridxx


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