# Any comment on this gratefully received



## Purdycat (Nov 29, 2006)

Hi.  I'm sorry to post a 'topic' so early after joining in, but something has been eating away at me for ages and I would really, really appreciate any feedback at all on this.  Sorry if it comes out a bit unintelligible!

An old, pretty close friend who I shared a house with in my late teens (she was heavily pregnant with her now 16 year old son at the time) and knew through my twenties caught up with me last year shortly before I started treatment.  She wrote to tell me that she'd been through a bad time as she had been 8 1/2 months pregnant and then the baby died inside her and she spent 6 days in hospital giving birth.  I replied saying how sorry I was to hear of this, etc and we resumed contact.  

I told her I was starting IVF.  She at this time was pregnant again.  During my 2ww I received an email from her called '50 great things about being a mum' with, obviously, the list attached.  It may be irrational but I can't tell you how much that list upset and disturbed me.  I spent weeks awake at night nashing my teeth and shedding tears over it and composing a '50 great things about NOT having children' list to reply with but couldn't think of an equally perfectly timed time to send it (aren't I evil!)

I got the BFN on 22nd Dec, then came  her xmas card, with a photo of her new baby on it.  And over the next 3/4 months she seemed to bombard me with letters with many photos of her having a lovely time with a new baby in them and emails with photo attachments of same.  Each letter felt like a punch in the face. Then she got pregnant again straight away and the letters had photos of her bump as well.  On my birthday I recieved a homemade card from her with (you guessed it) a photo of her baby on it.  I was still pretty shellshocked from the BFN and all the drugs etc and not sure if I was being irrational or not but I thought she could have eased up on my birthday and sent me a card for me and given the baby a rest, her birthday was a few days later, I sent her a text to say Happy Birthday.  Her reply was 'I've found out I'm having a girl, any suggestions about names?'.  I suggested the name I would have given the little girl I was hoping for and at this point, I'd had enough.  

One evening after several glasses of wine I got the bit between my teeth and sent her a text saying 'I'm sure you're having a lovely time with your baby, pregnancy etc but could you stop sending me the photos, they're not helping'.  I got a bit of a 'what the hell's wrong with you?' text back and neither of us bothered contacting each other again.

That is until recently, a text came at 5am and woke me up, from her, saying 'it's a shame our personal problems got in the way of our friendship, my child would have been 3 on Saturday, other babys don't help, the hole just gets deeper'.  I leapt out of bed and howled my eyes out in the living room til it was time to go to work.  

Next day I answered her with something along the lines of 'yes, it is a shame, both been through bad things and prob don't appreciate the effect on each other'.  I know she had it rough, but I can't see any sign of remorse and I can't forgive her.  But I'm not in her shoes, perhaps I'm being unreasonably sensitive, although I don't feel as though I am, the whole thing has really upset me.  See how confused I am??!!  

Sorry for the extremely long post, well done if you have got this far, I can't even bring myself to re-read it before pressing send!

Ellie x


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## emcee (Apr 3, 2005)

Hi Ellie

Sometimes we all have to step outside of ourselves and look at those around us and how they are with us when we are going through hard times and think what is it we get out of our relationship with them?

If you were able to have a good relationship with your friend in other ways aside from all of the baby stuff she sent you, I would say concentrate on that. But in this case it sounds as if your friend is clearly not over her loss, and is trying to overcompensate in other ways big time. The problem is you are not equipped to deal with her problems - I mean this with the utmost respect to you sweetie! I honestly think this lady needs professional help here, from the sound of her early morning text to you (I mean, who the hell texts people at that time in the morning? I am often up at that hour for work but I certainly don't text people)!

I would say to you to look after number one here - yes *you*! at the moment and if your friend contacts you don't respond. There is a very old saying - _'a friend in need is a friend indeed'_ and although its dreadful what has happened to her, you have had a lot of heartache too, and its not the time or place for you to be shouldering her grief as well whilst you are working through your own thoughts and feelings on your own situation.

Really sorry if this sounds blunt! Thats my take on what you have shared with us. Often when we are feeling vulnerable other people will come along and slap their stuff all over us too. I feel so sorry for you and for this poor lady too - but really its too much to ask of you (even if you hadn't been through all that you have).

With love,
Emcee xxx


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## Purdycat (Nov 29, 2006)

Dear Emcee

Thank you for ploughing through my post and for your thoughts.  You're quite right, sometimes we do have to step outside ourselves and see the whole picture, I was having difficulty doing that with this one and really appreciate your take on it.

And you've hit the nail on the head, she must be grieving badly, but I'm really not equipped to deal with her problems, or I certainly wasn't at the time.  Thinking about it now, I'm sure her behaviour wasn't designed to hurt me.  If the timing had been different I would have tried my best to support her.  Perhaps she saw me as someone with a fertility problem who would understand her needs.  But what hurt me is what seems like a complete lack of empathy or concern for mine at my lowest point.  I feel terrible that it has come to this, but perhaps you are right and I should not respond if she contacts me.  I had thought of writing her a letter explaining everything to her, but if I'm not equipped to deal with her issues, I probably wouldn't be doing her any favours by landing her with mine.  I still hope in the future we may be able to resolve this but perhaps sometimes people unfortunately are pushed apart by circumstances beyond their control.

Anyway, I'm rambling on again!  Thanks again emcee, don't ever be afraid to be blunt, as I always say 'you can't go far wrong with the truth'.

Love Ellie xx


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## Hippy (Aug 2, 2005)

Hi Ellie   what wise advice from Emcee  . On my post tx journey I too have found that my non IF tx friends who are either now preg or heading that way seem to go out of their way to tell me in particular all the details about it, scans, new born baby pics (  ) I have come to think that some of it maybe that all they can grasp of our situ is we are people who love children hence we went to every length possible to try for them, hence they think oh Hippy or Ellie would therefore like to hear about my child/ pregnancy etc because to them in their simple perspective of what we have been through all they see is tx equals being child interested and sort part of that whole world - little do they know how deeply distressing our actual IF world was and how so far removed from the reality of being a parent. I don't know if I have explained that very clearly it is hard to explain in words.

Hun - do not beat yourself up about what has happened with your friendship with this lady, you DID everything you could when she needed you most and despite going thorough your own heartache at the time. As Ellie said, this other lady has her own huge issues and grief to deal with and you really must allow yourself space for your own grief. There have been a few friendships I have let slide naturally away when certain children/preg situs have just been too much to cope with at present. 

You should never feel you have to explain or justify your pain to anyone hun, if people don't take the lengths to actually ask you how you (especially when they have been told by you about your tx) really are or think about their actions regarding this issue, then tough as it is perhaps you have to let life move you on from this lady. Perhaps writing that letter to just explain how you feel and that for personal reasons it is too painful for you to keep in touch could provide a way of closure, but most importantly just look after yourself. You have been through so much you must protect yourself from having to cope with insensitive or complex friends at this time.

I have become so much more assertive in saying no to people and things since end of tx, I think because I am still feeling so weary and battered by everything I just haven't got the capacity to cope with any hassle. 

HUGE HUGS

Love
Hippy
xxxxx


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## cassie33 (May 26, 2006)

Hello Ellie

I only joined this board myself a few days ago (after many months of lurking and getting up the courage!) so a big welcome to you.

I think you have the patience of a saint to have continued the friendship as long as you have.  One this infertility lark has taught me is that I don’t stay friends with ANYONE that makes me feel bad about myself.  I think this friend has been completely insensitive to what you’ve been going through.  The whole point of being a good friend is to try and put yourself in the position of the other person to see how you can support them.  Yes, your friend has had her share of problems too but it doesn’t take a genius to work how that it must be very painful to someone who has remained childless to keep having to receive photos of babies and bumps (I can’t believe that she sent you a photo of her bump – that is outrageous)

I apologise if I come across as a bitter old witch !!!!  I’m honestly not really like that (OK, maybe I’m more like that than I used to be ) but I think that life is tough enough for us without other people adding to our grief.

I recently finished my friendship with my (ex) best friend of over 10 years because I couldn’t handle how insensitive she was about our situation.  Yes, it’s very sad but at least I don’t end my phone conversations in tears anymore after something she has said to me.  I have a good few friends who have been a great support to me through out this journey, one in particular who got pregnant just before we had our 3rd failed IVF and she has been such am amazing friend to me even though her situation should have been, in theory, the most awkward for me to deal with.

I do agree with Emcee that you have to look out for YOU at this time.  If she isn’t a good enough friend to try and empathise with your position (and I realise most people have NO idea what we feel like) then you do not need her.  Sorry to be so matter a fact about it!!!!

Take care and keep us updated on what you decide to do.

Love and cyber hugs

Cassie 
(name is Claire but am now getting confused between my user name and real name so will stick to just one name from now on!!)


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## Bangle21 (Dec 17, 2004)

Hi Ellie,

Mmmmm - this is a difficult one.  I too am sitting in front of another Xmas card from a friend I haven't seen for 2 years due to all our IF problems and her lack of support and like you, am not sure how to/if I should try to resolve things .....

Like you, she hurt be alot when I was going through IVF by sending me pics of her baby and rubbing my nose in it.  Now that things aren't so raw for me, I'm to rationalise my feelings and have come to the conclusion that I think people think that because we are going through IVF/TX, then we must love babies, and therefore, would be really interested to see how theirs are doing.  I dont think they have the first idea of how deeply painful this is for us and would hope that if they had the faintest idea, they wouldn't do such things to us .....  Like you said, perhaps she didn't mean to hurt you .....

I can't provide any other advice other than the lovely Emcee has given you hun.  But I would agree with her in that you need to ask yourself what you got/are going to get out of this relationship with your friend.  Is it a possibility that even without both of your troubles, you may have drifted apart anyway.....?  Sometimes, it's the hard times that really make you see who your true friends are ....

I am contemplating contacting my friend (after a 2 year absence) because now i feel strong enough to cope with her again and to explain my side of things and how she hurt me ..... although i'm still not 100% sure whether to or not ...

I hope you can make a decision that you are "content" with ....

All the best
Love Gill xo


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## Purdycat (Nov 29, 2006)

Thanks guys (I mean ladies   )

You've made things clearer.  I don't think I'll write that letter now.  Maybe in the future.

It's not that I can't handle my friends having children.  A good friend has an adorable 2 year old and I've loved spending time with them from day one.  Holding her as a baby, feeding her, taking her swimming, watching her grow up is an absolute pleasure and I feel lucky my friend let's me get involved with her daughter in such a generous way.  The difference is that this friend has been totally supportive and tactful and has never 'forced' her motherhood on me, just let it be known she's there for me and there is an unspoken thing that she knows it means a lot to me to share a little piece of her daughter without any 'deep' undercurrents. This to me is a good friend and, as you only get one life maybe it is too short for dealing with people who make you feel bad.

Ellie x


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## jq (Nov 14, 2006)

Hello Purdycat,

I really can't add much to the advice you have had, I think you will have found what a wise lot the women on this site are, so welcome. I have to admit I never thought to apologise for pitching straight in with my first post just as soon as i found this place! Sure feels like nobody minds, if you need some support, thats what we are all here for!

Many of us seem to have lost friends in similar ways. It's just great that we can offer each other the support we need.

Love to all who posted

Jq


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## emcee (Apr 3, 2005)

Ellie hon

What about writing a letter to your friend that is for your eyes only?

As daft as it sounds I often write things that I would never send on to people - I find it helps me to get things out of my system in a 'safe environment' if you like...

Just a thought from me  

Lots of love
Emcee xxx


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Dear Ellie
I have just read your post and felt very sad about it....
The one thing that stands out to me is 'Friends do not hurt you'. If you have a true friend they are there for you. The relationship goes two ways and its not just one sided.
I understand that she is grieving, but you are also grieving as well, but in a different way. If there is a loss for both of you, then this grief could have been shared. It sounds as if this friend has sort of taken her anger out on you, but why? especially when you have offered the hand of friendship. 
I think you may be banging your head against the wall, as this maybe  never be a shared thing. If she was a true friend she would want to know why she had upset you and not retaliated?...
Maybe in time write a letter, or maybe its time that you thought of yourself. Maybe its time to surround yourself by those that understand. And if this was a true friend it will find its way through eventually...
Oh by the way Emcee writes great letters and does not send them..she has posted one of them on the board before and it sure makes you feel better....and very therapeutic.
Lots of love astridxx


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## irisheyes (Feb 2, 2005)

Hi Ellie- i lost a very good friend thru her getting pg immediately after she got married(we had been ttc 2 years at that stage- i had actually been in for my laperoscopy just before her hen night).

She phoned me to invite me to her 3oth bday and also to drop the news. I ended up not going to the party which i did feel bad about but said i would see her over christmas. She rang me in Jan and constantly went on about the baby - about how she would have to book a last holiday before she was too big to fly!!! She never once asked after my stepdaughter who she knew quite well and we were dealing with her mother emigrating at the same time as she was trying to move to a new school etc.It was as if she didnt care as long as she was happy.

I felt that if she had even asked after my life or was interested we would have kept in touch.I found out from my mum what she had- a boy.I was so upset that she never tried to get back in touch with me- as i felt if the roles were reversed i would have kept in touch with her. She could have met me without the baby. Just as i was thinking of going to see her (when the baby was a year old) lo and behold she was pg again.So of course i didnt.

My sister sees her at Christmas and keeps me up to date.A few weeks ago however we heard that her youngest boy(now 2) has some form of cancer. i have asked my sister to phone her before i get in touch.But i would like to show her some support even tho she didnt show me any- i think she didnt fully understand the pain of infertility.

I have another friend who has been good at keeping in touch(her 2nd baby due this week) and she understands that i cannot see her while pg but will come when i can.She actually foned the other night(when that programme" a baby against the odds" was on but i didnt answer the fone as i was a bit upset by the tv.She then texted just to let me know that the baby was late.But at least she kept me in the loop. The other friend i never saw in 5 yrs except one day up the road in her car.

you have to be good to you. I knew i could never see that friend because she didnt care enough for my pain to help me. If i do see her now that her child is ill it will be good to mend bridges but our friendship will have changed forever.  Just see her when YOU want to- you could also get caller id on your fone and not answer except when you feel good enough to deal with her. If she doesnt understand then forget it.You need good friends who do!!! xxx


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