# 40+ IVF/ICSI OE and beyond - Part 7



## Mish3434

*NEW HOME LADIES!*









*Please take a moment to review the Site Guidelines, particularly with regards to pregnancy and parenting* chat: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=260253.0

Don't forget, for all those who have been successful, you are more than welcome to continue using this thread but please be respectful of others that are still on their journey, and keep your pregnancy and parenting chatter within the site guidelines

The over 40's does have it's own PAPAI area and can be found: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=164.0

You also have a long term chatterers thread that can be found: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=293050.new#new

Love and babydust to you all

Shelley x


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## tracked

Hi Ladies,

I have started my third IVF/ICSI cycle. I have had my first scan and I have 9 follicles all around 15mm. I know that I should be fairly happy about this but my last cycle got 15 eggs and had no success or anything to freeze.  This cycle I am on menopur and I was wondering if any of you have used this drug. I guess the nerves are really starting to hit me especially as I am going blasto and last cycle nothing made it. There are moments when I think why am I putting myself through this. Sorry about the wobble I know I should stay positive.

Cheers


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## mfmcmoo

Hi Tracked. Just a quick one - have you tried to improve egg quality with DHEA, CoQ10 and L'arginine, as well as other vits?


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## dyellowcar

Hi tracked - your response to stims seems pretty good. Try to relax as each cycle is different. Remember it only takes one really strong egg. Quality over quantity is the best way. Good luck for EC as you won't be much longer. X


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## HMB

Tracked have you talked to your doctor about doing 3 day transfer instead? 9 sounds great.


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## alexine

Hi Tracked I'm in a similar position to you. I have 8 follies cooking just now and last time I had 12 but ended up with nothing...I know what you mean..it's scary! This is also my very last shot....I'm nervous that there will be nothing there on EC. 
Wishing you lots of      for your EC and fertilisation! 
xxA


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## tracked

Thank you all for your replies. I know it is a journey and am trying to be positive. I decided to do blasto because I feel that if they are really  going to have a chance then they should make it to that stage. I suppose it is like a natural selection process and only the strongest will grow on. I have done two day transfer last cycle and grew everyone else on with no result and a BFN so I am trying blasto instead. I would rather have none make it to blasto then transfer at two days and live with mostly false hope for two weeks. There many women that have had success with two days but at our age I would prefer the strongest ones for transfer. 

I am on a prenatal vitamin and omega 3 capsules as there has been a number of people who say that helps with the quality of linig, can only try.

Thanks ladies


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## HMB

Tracked I thought you said you did blasts last time. Actually, for over 40s they say day 2 and day 3 transfers are better, something about the eggs being more sensitive and preferring to be in their natural habitat and there is also the issue of lining. The rules change for over 40s. However, the transfer timing is always a case by case situation decided at the time. Good luck!!

Alexine, crossing everything for you to have good embies


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## Kuki2010

Tracked,
I give you my experience. I have done 3 FETs Blastst the results were negative. 1 fresh cycle Blasts result was negatvie. 
4 fresh cycles 4 3 days treansfers. And 4 pregnancies.
For my body blasts do not work. It is either my embies or for my body is too late to regisetre for pregnancies.. 
I have 4 frozen 1st grade blasts on freezer. But I know they will be wasted away.. My body won't do it.. 
So all depends, age, your body.. timing.. 
Don't stress about so much about blasts.. 
Lots and lots of luck..
Love.
Kukixx


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## poppy40

Tommi - have been thinking of you, hope you are as well as can be expected  

Tracked - good luck. Fingers crossed for your tx  . I never had enough embryos to go to blast, like Kuki 3 day embryos worked for me. There have also been successful pgs with Day 2 transfers on this thread 

Alexine - how is your tx going? Have you got long until EC? Lots of luck, got everything crossed for some beautiful frosties  

mfmcmoo - I found DHEA improved the no of eggs and egg quality for my cycle and a few of us did mega doses of 600mg of CoQ10 a day which seemed to help. I also went through a lot of Whey to Go   Are you cycling at the moment?

Hello & love to everyone - have done a longer post on the new thread in chat  x


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## SmallPeanut

Hello all,

After my recent BFN on my first go at IVF, we've just had our follow up consultation and despite the doctor telling us that both of the eggs that were put back in on day 2 were good quality, grade one 4 cell embies, he says that he can only recommend us having one more attempt and then said he wouldn't really advise bothering any more as my chances of success are so slim. So it felt like a double edged sword, good eggs one one hand, sperm was good, we collected 7 eggs, lining was good, nothing else wrong apart from they didn't implant...I'm wholly confused and more than a little upset that he's basically saying the next attempt is our last chance!

Worried that our dream is all over before it's properly started


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## dillydolly

Small peanut

Maybe get a second option! It was your 1st attempt so shouldn't give up. You have other options....new clinic or different doc at same clinic... 
What's your AMH? I bet they didn't do it as some clinics don't. Maybe get that done and go from there


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## Chandlerino

Thats what my clinic said to me after our first cycle - their advice was to do 2nd cycle then go to DE. Then after our 2nd cycle they have put it down to 'bad luck' and have told me to book in for another cycle! I am so confused!

I've looked at reprofit in the Czech Rep - but not 100% happy with the protocol they have suggested so may go to serum in Greece as Penny gave me such a comprehensive consultation and outlined protocol. The only downside is the time needed to go out for treatment - Reprofit want me out there from day 10, egg collection day 12-14 and Et 3-5 days after that. Not sure I can do it with a child a school and time off work......

Dillydolly have u decided yet?


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## HMB

Tommi, I wrote you a message on another thread, but just wanted to say I hope you are taking care of yourself


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## dillydolly

Chandlerino

I am thinking of Serum or Dogus

I have looked into reprogenesis but haven't had a reply from them which I sent two  weeks ago I know Petra is busy but I can do without the waiting!

Serum is shut which is much deserved but I find it hard to wait. I dont know how I will be able to fit an aquascan in around my cycle though and don't think  Penny would let me start without one!

Dogus has had bad feedback but I know of a lady who has had donor egg and got a 2nd BFP- she miscarried the first. I have chatted with her and she said she found that if you 'go with the flow' it's fine. She said it was really busy when she was there a few weeks ago so maybe that is why communication can lapse a bit

I am hoping to so October or November and would have to take son with me even though he is starting school in September but there is nothing else I can do


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## SmallPeanut

Thanks for the advice everyone, it's much appreciated.

DillyDolly my AMH was 10.9 just before we started the IVF cycle, though to be honest despite searching the internet I'm really not sure whether that's good or bad in the grand scheme of things?


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## alexine

Hi Girls EC for me today...I'm really nervous this time as last time I ended up with zilch. I had a really good meeting with the embryologist yesterday and will speak to her again today before EC which is light years ahead of the communication I got at the GCRM. 5 follies in the running a couple days ago and about 8 small ones which probably won't make it. If I get 3 good embies to freeze I will be happy... I'm not having a transfer.  

Smallpeanut AMH of 10.9 is good...you definitely have something to work with.   

Dillydolly and Chandlerino  Penny from Serum actually emailed me re this cycle I'm having in Canada to offer me some really good advice. I;m like you Chand I would go to Serum in a heartbeat but right now for me being single with a toddler logistically I don;t know how I would manage it. I;m trying to figure out how to do it if I need to before Xmas. I really do think she's is one of the best in this crazy IVF world. I also think she is honest.     to you both!

I spoke to a friend of mine recently who finally got her long awaited BFP and she said she basically ran her own treatment at the GCRM. Some of the nurses didn;t even know what she was in for...she had to tell them. She used a protocol from a previous cycle and told them what she wanted...kind of rented their facility. It's ridiculous what UK clinics are charging us for the kind of care they are offering....often we are doing a lot of the work for ourselves...because we care!

Anyway don't get me going.... 

Hi Poppy Kuki HMB Tracked Dyellowcar Mfmmcoo! 

Good luck to everyone here!    
xxxA


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## HMB

Alexine! Good luck hun! EC, so exciting! I so hope you get 3-5 eggs today, woohoo! Keep us posted.

I'm working on a difficult text translation at the moment. The money will help pay for tx though!  . Started talking Vitality herbs last week. We had a mega heatwave and I was sick on Monday.


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## Tommi

Good luck Alexine    

Thank you ladies for your kind words. I've had my ERPC cancelled twice now. Actually got as far as theatre on Monday. Not coping very well. Doesn't look like it'll be this week unless I pay  

I'm starting to think about getting ready to try again, maybe later in the Autumn (assuming I've had the ERPC by then!). Before this cycle I was taking a load of supplements which I stopped on transfer day. Then I just took pregnacare max. I'm wondering if I should invest in a nutrition consultation to make sure I'm taking exactly what my body needs. Do you think that would be a good idea? Can anyone recommend a good person to see? Thank you! 

Txx


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## tracked

Hi Ladies,

Sending you all . I had final scan today 11 follicles all around 23-24mm have trigger shot tonight and EC on Friday morn. 

Alexaine I hope all went well for your EC. 

Tommi I am sending you best wishes that all will be good soon. I think it wouldn't hurt to see a nutritionist.

Wishing you all the best


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## poppy40

Alexine - lots of luck for your EC   Fingers crossed for some lovely eggs & embies  

SmallPeanut- your AMH looks great to me, mine was 8 when I had it tested a few yrs ago. A lot of clinics seem to suggest DE fairly quickly due to age and increased risk of MC for over 40s but if I was in your shoes, I would have a phone consult with Penny at Serum and get her opinion and look to cycle with her if poss.

Tommi - that's horrific   So sorry hun, its so cruel to leave you in limbo . Your hosp must have a policy on ERPC as if things are left for too long, there must be a risk of infection? I would definitely contact PALS or perhaps the Miscarriage Association could advise you  I saw a nutritionist after I had my MMC at 12 weeks as I felt and looked dreadful. It was definitely worthwhile as I got my hair tested (bit sceptical) but it showed I was deficient in a lot of important minerals and my adrenal glands were clapped out through stress and exhaustion. I changed my diet a bit, upped my vits & minerals and felt brilliant. If you want me to PM some of the diet info I was given, let me know as I've sent it to quite a few FFers xx

Chandlerino - hello! We were on the OFU thread together   Its a tough one when you have a lot of things to juggle at home and trying to fit in tx, my plan B would have been to go to Serum but logistically I have no idea how I would have done it. I do know of people who've taken their LOs with them when they've had tx there but its difficult once they're at school. Is it worth you seeing Penny for a consult and aquascan (& hysto if needed) and making a decision from there? x


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## Little B

Tommi, hope you are feeling better soon.

I had a nightmare myself last year after my 9 week MC . long story short my D&C didn't occur until almost 1 month after the heartbeat stopped. I was given drugs and bled for three horrible weeks. I know how you are feeling - best wishes that you get on the other side of this soon.

Bee


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## Little B

HMB,

did you say you are going to see Penny at the end of September?

If my current plans don't work, I have convinced DH to exlore that option, so I am especially interested in your experience. Im still going with OE, despite my age. I've got to have hope!


Bee


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## HMB

Little B, I am indeed going to Serum at the end of September. I will know my dates in about a week. Penny did an excellent job with protocol last time. The meds she gave me enabled me to have 5 follies WITHOUT stims and CD7!!!!! So I do think it's worth a try with her at least once with your OE, before going down another path, especially since you still have eggs etc


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## tracked

Hi ladies, 

Hoping you are all well. I had EC on Friday 10 eggs  collected with 9 mature eggs and I have had 6 fertilize. I am now waiting anxiously until tomorrow to see how embies are progressing. I am trying to stay distracted but it is hard.

Alexine, i hope all went well for your EC.

Sending you all


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## alexine

Tracked sending you lots of     . The wait is so nerve wracking! I hope all goes well for tomorrow!!

HMB I rooting for you at Serum for the end of Sept!    

I ended up with 2 embies for the freezer. 1  top quality 2cell day 2 and one above average 4 cell day 2.
5 mature eggs collected 3 fertilised 2 embies....I wish I'd had the guts to go to day 3 but was scared of ending up with zilch. Now just recovering from it all. 

   to everyone!
xxxA


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## Tommi

Thank you ladies for your messages    I am home now after staying in for a night on Friday. My blood pressure dipped too low so they kept me on a drip and told me not to move so that was pretty much it for 24 hours! Apparently it went well and the care I received was fantastic (Spire Hospitals really are great!). Still feel a bit sore and a bit strange really. It's another stage of the process I guess. Had to get used to the baby dying and now have to get used to him not being there at all. It's bound to take some time. Thank you for all your kind messages  

HMB - really interested in the meds you had with Penny. That sounds very positive! Good luck with everything   

Bee - sorry to hear you had a nightmare time too  

Tracked - that is great news about your embies!    

Alexine - so pleased you have such great quality embies tucked away  

I hope you all have a good day. The sun is shining today. Think I'll get dressed at some point!

Txx


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## HMB

Tracked: woohoo  

Thanks Alexine, I need it  

Tommi, sure. The meds were starting CD1--Prednisolone 5mgx2/day, Valtrex 2/day (stop at EC), Doxycycline 2/day. This added to folic acid 5mg, whey and all the supps I was taking + luck gave me 5 follies on CD7 without stimms. Then Penny started me on stimms to try and capture more than one follie. We got 2, both fertilized by IVF (not ICSI) and were grade 1& 2 (pretty darn good for a 45 year old!!!). I really believe the drug cocktail +whey and supps made my ovaries happy  . The drugs are mainly empirical treatment, to suppress any possible naughty germs, viruses, immunes from frustrating the process. It worked!


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## alexine

You will get there HMB!   
xxA


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## tracked

Thanks for all the best wishes.

Alexine that is great news about your embies. 

Tommi, I am glad everything is moving forward for you now. Wishing you all the best and lots of    as you look to the future.

HMB all the best for your upcoming tx

Best wishes


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## Kuki2010

HMB,
Those coctail of drugs gaveme the most eggs and top quality ones this time around. But was on higher dosage of steriods and 1000mg Valtrex and same Doxy.. And the rest.. Defo works.. 

Tracked,
Great numbers.. We only need one great one.. That would do nicely.. Come on embies..

Alexine,
Lara was a grade 2 embie.. She is nearly 5 and never ever had to have any ABs or anything.. We never get that ill.. Allways 3 days all goes back to okay.. She is one great 2nd grade.. 

Tommi,
Don't worry about dressing up.. Just chill and rest.. 

I have done my beauty treatments this morning.. Feeling every so beauitufl now.. 

Love to you all.

Kukixx


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## HMB

Thanks Kuki. I did 1000 Valtrex too, and 200 Doxy. Not as high on the pred as you, I think. 

Anyway, ladies, this cocktail worked even better for Kuki with BFP and in just a few days her LO will be here! So definitely a winning recipe


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## BECKY7

Hey ladies  kuki just text saying toddy is 2.98kg but perfect,bfing fine , eating and sleeping  they both in shock but very happy  Ecstatic  woooooo hooooooo
Becky7 xx


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## HMB

Encore!! Yeah Kuki!! (posted second time heehee)


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## julesbfd

Afternoon ladies

Afternoon ladies
Just looking for your advice and thoughts to my upcoming rambling.  You get all of this information and then don't really know what to do with it

I have not had my follow-up appointment, a few weeks ago and have received a follow-up letter that has been sent to my GP and a copy to myself.

The letter says that there are currently no exisiting pelvic factors and no sign of endometriosis which I thought I had, and that positively I have good ovarian reserve, despite my age.
The consultant has suggested shortening the follicular phase to 10 days, first go was 12 days, 2nd go 11 days to try and improve embryo quality, also to use intramuscular progesteroneI had spoken about aspirin and prednisolone and they are agreeing to prescribe these as long as they are sure I am making an informed choice and know the risks.
I spoke about the chlymidia screening, she has said that I could have HVS for MC&S and cervical swab for chlamydia antigen.
I think this is quite different to the test Serum do and still plan to have this, although she is saying my cervix and womb are clear and I do not have any tubes for infection. 
I have also had some of the level 1 immunes done although I am struggling to understand them.  I know my TSH is 3.3, glucose 5.0, FBG 4.1, HB 13.7, LFT normal.  I have also just got the results for other tests that have been done but there are so many result within them, I don't know.  I was told they tested calcium, CRP, rh factor, ANA, IGS, ESR and thrombophilia screening.
The only thing that came up a little out of normal range was  protein c level, normal range is 0.7-1.4 and mine is 1.51, Doctor said this is not a problem but in terms of treament, I don't know if it is.
On the same page of these results my plasma antithrombin iii activity (Xaly2) normal range is 80-12-.0 and mine was at 119.0 so at the higher point, plasma activated protein c resistance should be 2.5-4.5 and was 4.3 and partial thromboplastin time activated (XS9U4) normal is 25-39 and mine was 38.0

I hope what I have written makes sense to someone who has more knowledge than me.

Does what the clinic here, if I have to use them sound as though they are working with me.  I read so many fantastic things about Serum and how people cannot wait for the clinic to be open again.
Of course if I have to use leeds again, I pray it works but if not feel very confident in going to Athens and having tx.

Thanks ever so much in advance, it is such a minefield but we all learn so much.

Jules xx


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## HMB

Jules, I strongly recommend that you post your immunes results on Agate's immunes' thread or send her a PM. She is a great help to ladies with these tests (she has been through it all!).

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=52.0

Here is the link to Agate's comprehensive immunes guide: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=242395.0


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## tracked

Hi ladies,
Well I am now PUPO and now the dreaded TWW begins . I ended up with 3 blasts from my six and have 1 transferred and the other two will grow more til tomorrow and will be frozen.  I am going to try myharxestnot analyze what is going on in my body but we allknowhow hard that is.

 
Tracked


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## tracked

Hi All, 

Sorry about my typos in my previous post to excited about the possibilities.


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## alexine

Tracked that's really great news on your embies!! 
Sending you lots of     
xxA


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## Tommi

Good luck Tracked!      

And, I said it on the other thread, but congratulations Kuki! Wonderful news!  

Hi Jules - sorry I can't help you but just wanted to say hi and good luck!   

Txx


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## neema

Kuki - Congratulations on the birth of Toddy  , glad to hear that both of you are doing well xx

Tracked - Congratulations on being PUPO, fx for you      

Justine - Hope that you and the little ones are doing great xx

Good luck to everyone on tx or trying naturally


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## Little B

Brilliant news for you Kuki, I hope you are recovering well and the littler sister is healthy and happy. What a great idea, having a present for Toddy to give to her sister. First impressions mean everything!


Tracked - good luck!


Tommi,   , let yourself cry. And let your friends help you.


AFM, I have a great feeling, as after bizarre and disheartening delays, I have started IVF cycling. I am on CD 3 now, so I guess I should be taking Royal Jelly, baby aspirin, some flaxseed and (generic) Valtrex til EC, yes? My clinic isn't into supplements, so I am following their rules (300 Puregon soon to be  in addition to Cetrocide) but want to do what I can to help. I may ask for an antibiotic, too. Any advice welcome. Just feel like this is going to work.



Bee


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## Hellypoo

Not been on here for such a long time! Just wanted to say huuuge congrats to kuki - wonderful news and I hope you are all doing well.


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## urbangirl

Kuki, wow!  Just came on to say congratulations, this one has been a long time coming, such fantastic news.  Hope you are recovering well and Toddy is doing fine.


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## Playdoh

Hi ladies,

Do you mind if I join you?  

I'm on my first IVF long protocol with 375 Menopur, had my first scan yesterday after stimming for 8 days and only 3 decent sized follies and 2 tiny follies   
I know it's quantity over quality, but I couldn't help sobbing as soon as the nurses were out of the room! 

I was on another thread but it's too busy for my drug frazzled brain to keep up with (the TX drugs ladies  ) and besides a while ago someone made a comment about her OLD SIL being pregnant at 40  , made me feel like I was in a club full of teeny boppers so if I may, I'd rather join in with you ladies so we can all be OLD together!!    

I haven't read through everything properly yet, and I'm pretty rubbish at remembering things at the minute but I'll try to keep up and remember everyone's names and where you're all up to in TX  

Playdoh. xx


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## Mish3434

Hi Playdoh, We also have a current Over 40's cyclers thread too http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=289784.680 it's a lot less hectic that the threads in the Cycle buddies area   . Good luck for your TX       We've had a fair few BFPs from the over 40's ladies of late so hoping it continues      

Shelley xx


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## Playdoh

Oh Mish thank you,

Trust me to post in the wrong section, I thought this was a current cyclers thread  

I'm determined to embarrass myself lately


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## Little B

Hi Playdoh, and welcome! I'm fairly sure everyone here is over 40, and for myself I think I am one of the oldest of the oldies - 45 and more than a half.

But help me out -- I am a bit confused, Mish -- isn't this a thread for people over 40 who are cycling? There seems to be some weirdness after the thread split or whatever happened...


Bee


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## Mish3434

Hi Little B, This is more of a long term thread, under going treatment and inbetween treatment,  a while ago I was asked to start a new thread for girls that are undergoing treatment at the moment so there would be ongoing support through DR, Stims etc.  You are free to post on either, but the other thread is often more relevant at the time for cycling if you see what I mean?

Shelley x


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## BECKY7

Hey ladies  how are you all  as you know I had MC 2 week ago and I had bleeding for 5 day which completely stop 10 day ago  And I had faintly pink wipe since yesterday  and got ache feeling  and so bloated  so I am not sure it that is another early AF or implanation bleed as we did do it during my ovulate  and I should be 4dpo  so it can't be early implanation unless it very very early period on her way.
Hope you all are well
Becky7 xx


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## Playdoh

Hi *Little B* and thank you for the welcome  I love that fact that you are 45 and more than a half! Are you cycling at the minute?

*Mish*, thank you for clarifying, phew it appears I didn't embarrass myself after all. 
A longer term thread is really just what I was looking for, somewhere to come after TX has ended and if I end up in between cycles. So, thank you and I think I'll get my feet under the table here if no-one minds me joining in 

*Becky7*, hi  I'm really sorry to hear about your MC  I hope you feel better soon and lots of luck for your journey.

Hello to everyone else, I haven't read through yet but as soon as I have I'll say hello to you all properly 

Playdoh. xx


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## Playdoh

*Little B* obviously if I'd have read your signature properly I would have known you start TX in September  l
Lots of luck with that  xx


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## dyellowcar

Playdoh - Hi and welcome to the thread. Don't be too disheartened by the follie count, thereis time for others to catch up. But at our age it's probably better to have fewer and they to be of a higher quality. Where are you cycling at? I tranferred to this thread ages and ages ago, as like you I felt they were all teeny boppers and there TX wasn't relevant to me. especially as they were getting vast quatities of follies. Are you drinking lots of water and eating protein? All good for increasing the quality of eggs. Also use a hot water bottle on your abdommen to help enhance your lining, stop after EC though. Good Luck. 

Becky - Hi sweetie, how are you doing? Is it possible to be having an implantation bleed so soon? What I'm trying to say is; have you been DTD?   Also have you heard any more from Kuki yet and how she is doing after the birth?

Little b - How are you doing? My only advice would be the same I gave to Playdoh, drink plenty and use a hot water bottle. Have you been taking baby aspirin too? A lot of ladies eat Brazil nuts and drink pineapple juice up until EC. I'm not sure if it's too late to try the Co-enzyme Q10? Usually I take in preparation for TX. Poppy and Justine both swore by the 'Whey to go' drinks and look at where they are, one with a LO and one PG with twins. I know they both took it whilst stimming.

Neema - Hi hun, how are you? My cycle had been all over the place so not been tracking LH surge, but still having BMS around the suspected times ( and in between just in case) TBH I don't think It'll happen naturally but will give it another couple of months for my cycle to normalise. Then I think I'll go back to Serum at the end of the year, possibly November

Tracked - How is your 2WW going? Are you working or staying in with your feet up? I hope you've not been driven crazy Knicker watching yet.   When is your OTD?

Jules - Hi and welcome. I don't think there are any clinics in this country that do the same tests as Serum. Penny does the Hidden C and now also the 7 in 1 test. The cost is around £250 for both tests. It might be worth emailing Penny for a consult just for her advice. She is a very generous person and will do a phone consult FOC. I had both the test done earlier this year and then went to Athens for a Hysto in May, we are TTC naturally for now, but will move on to DE if we need to. Penny doesn't think it's worth trying OE as my response hasn't been the best. There is certainly no reason why you can't keep on with Leeds but get a second opinion with Penny. After all it is your money and your body.

Hi to Alexine, Urbangirl, Hellypoo, Mish and everyone else

Di xxx


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## BECKY7

Hey dellowcar  yes we did DTD od cd10/cd11 as that when I normal ovulate  and I am sure that happen this month too cos of my ewuh for 4 day during my ovulate  but hey ho who know eh and still going  ahead with DIUI in October if I don't get pregnant.
Becky7 xx


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## BECKY7

Sorry girls  yes kuki should be fine as I will text her tomorrow to say you all are still thinking of her  as guess she so busy with 2 now lol
Becky7 xx


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## Little B

hello ladies,

Becky - that would be unusual for you to be pregnant so soon after a miscarriage, but then once we start stimming and pushing things around, who knows what will happen. Wouldn't that be fabulous for you?!

AFM, I'm cycling now, was told to do 300 Puregon for 6 days, then add Cetrocide (Cetrotide?) to stop my ovulation , and come in for a scan on Day 7.
The tech was annoyed with us as we were 10 minutes late (traffic) and simply said she saw "nothing". WTF?

The last time I stimmed (for an IUI, three months ago) I had a few tiny follicles and a 10 on each side by this point. Am naturally terrified that I've finally shut down (I'm over 45). I'm also annoyed that we didn't get more information from the clinic (I kept it quick, as my DH was irritated at me for not getting out of the house by 7am for our 85 minute ride, and then the traffic, he hates to be late). And now I'm wondering what will happen with taking Cetrotide too early, or what..... I dunno, just ready for this to HAPPEN. So, know how yo feel, Playdoh.



Little Bee


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## BECKY7

Hey little B  I will be doing another DIUI next month as the clinic think I have a chance sooner rather then later so I will do it on my 2nd cycles  which should be around 8th October  so not long to go and I got my re current on the 12th sept and hope to get he result before I start my TX  eew
Becky7 xx


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## handy1

Hello ladies 

I joined this thread 2yrs ago with my first IVF cycle and I am thinking of trying again sooner rather than later. i hope you don't mind me joining you

Handy


----------



## kittykins

Hello everyone 

Thought I might join you as I have been on the 2ww site but I just seem so old to be there! 

Unfortunatley, we tested today at 9dp5dt - it was a resounding BFN on an internet cheapie and a clearblue digi so not holding out any hope whatsoever this month      Bought the biggest slab of Stilton today and a bottle of red wine for tonight - then tomorrow will be picking ourselves up and then back for our follow up appointment at Bourn - just feel so low today - 2 blasts on board and absolutely nothing to show for the 7 weeks of injections/scans/drugs - I know we are so lucky to have our DD but wanted this as much for her as well as she has Downs and of course we worry about what will happen when we are not here! 

Love to everyone. 

x x x


----------



## HMB

Oh, Kittykins, I'm so sorry. I really hope you've tested too early and that there's still hope.


----------



## Amittai

Hi there Gals,
just thought I'd pop in and say hi, given that I think I fit all the criteria of this link (40 + [41 to be exact], OE, and IVF - of sorts!) and DS for me..
I've posted on one or two others like the Reprofit, where I am doing my treatment.. but this seems right up my street too!

Kittykins I read that you were on your two week wait and felt really excited for you and now i just read about your bFN. soso sorry.. that is so dissapointing. look after yourself and just take it easy.. this is such a multi emotional roller coaster juggling act isnti t..

handy1 - good luck with your thinking phase - exciting times!

BECKY7 - you are so brave lady, I am so glad you are starting again with IUI (from what i can understand?) next month, awesome. You deserve lots and lots of good luck this time..Becky!
Little B - I see you are cycling this month, me too!! woot woot!
Playdoh - good luck with your journey, i see you are starting long protocol treatment soon, i must read your diary!
dyellowcar - Howdee!
and everyone else too.

I am starting my first IVF cycle at the moment. I'm on D5 (of 10) of stims today, and I go to Reprofit in Brno early tomorrow, for my first scan, which will be CD7, and that is about as much as I know so far!
I guess once they've done the scan then I should hopefully know more about the rest of my treatment plan. At the moment I have no idea what to expect at all because I havent actually had any tests of any sort done. all i know is that i did get a BFP naturally in Dec last year (which unfortunately ended in MC but at least something worked in the first place!)
its a bit wierd, I'm trying not to get too hopeful but also i want to be positive and excited. so we shall see!
I'm looking forward to going to Brno too, and checking it all out. 
If anyone happens be in Brno this weekend, would be good to meet,

good luck everyone and good wishes and good weekends.. and of course


----------



## kittykins

HMB - thanks hun - not long for you now x 

Definite BFN for us - work up yesterday to full AF  l


----------



## HMB

Kittykins, I am heartbroken for you! What are you going to do?

Amittai, WELCOME  . Reprofit is a great clinic!

I ovulated so I have my dates pretty much for Serum. CD1 will be Sept 19/20. I get a baseline scan to see if it will be a natural or stimmed cycle. We are flying to Rhodes on 25th and then to Athens/Serum on 28th. Penny said my plans were fine, but "Of course for the final dates you will need to be in Athens we will have to wait for your AFC scan." I may get an extra scan at home right before leaving for Rhodes (thought of this at 6am this morning  ). Dh would rather be in Rhodes 2 full days, understandably. He is actually disappointed that we aren't going to the Cyclades, but it was more expensive and logistically complicated to do on the 25th, believe it or not. Just debating whether or not I should book my (flexible) return for Oct 6 or 8....hmm. DH will be returning on Oct 1 due to work. Penny is very excited for us. THIS IS IT. GO TEAM.


----------



## tracked

Hi ladies,

Unfortunately AF has arrived and OTD was this Monday coming. To top off this our other two embies stopped growing before they could be frozen. My DH and I have decided to go donor egg we are going to Reprofit in December.

Thanks for your thoughts


----------



## SmallPeanut

Tracked, I'm so so sorry to hear that, such sad news. Hope you're feeling OK, it's a crushing feeling but pleased to hear that you're already planning your next steps.

take it easy this weekend and sending you loads of luck and best wishes for the future next steps xxxx


----------



## HMB

Sorry Tracked, that is really disappointing...glad you have a good plan  

Amittai, are you taking supplements? Did they tell you why you had the mc? Might be good to add meds etc to your tx. Agate has a really good thread on learning from failed IVF, take a look.


----------



## HMB

Amittai, have a look at this link on immunes, especially for what can cause mc etc. You can treat empirically , for example taking clexane after EC. I'll be back with another link for you.

got a question? try my immunes faq? http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=242395.0


----------



## HMB

Amittai, here is the lessons learned thread, check it. Since you are in the middle of your tx, some things do not apply at this point, but there are things you can do to improve your chances!   

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=283000.0


----------



## Little B

well ladies, hate to add to the downer mood here, but I need some help and I know you'll all know what I'm talking about.

I finally started my IVF cycle, at Maigaard in Aarhus, Denmark. I had to cancel the last cycle, last summer, when I got pregnant all by myself. After my prolonged mc, the DH and I needed to get our heads on straight before starting again, and then ran into some financial trouble that made IVF out of the question (we did IUIs instead, those are practically free here).

Anyway, after delays, I started. They put me on Puregon, 300 each evening, with a Cetrocide shot on Day 7 and a scan on Day 8 (as Day 7 was a Sunday). I thought -- hmmm, Puregon? Haven't been on that in a long while, as I responded better to Menopur, and hmmm, 300 each day was getting me  few 14mms and a few 10mms, I wonder if that's enough? and I thought Cetrocide on Day 7?  I just got the feeling that this was a standard treatment, and at 45, maybe I should be getting something different? But anyway, did what I was told.

Also, had no bloodwork except to make sure neither of us had HIV or STDs.

So Day 7, or 8, which was Monday, we were rushed in to get an u/s, which I accepted as we were 10 minutes late (we live a long, long way from Aarhus). I was told there was nothing. Nothing at all. There was a discussion in Danish with my DH and I was given more medicine and an appointment for Friday. I went home and immediately shot up 100, then that night my 300, and did the same for the next two days. I was feeling it - that achy bloated feeling. Game on, ovaries.

Friday's u/s: nothing. It was fast, I swear I saw a tell-tale dark circle, as I have been looking at my ovaries each month for about 2 years now, but they said there was nothing.

So the nurse comes in and tells me well, that's sometimes how it goes. And I protested that I was getting a response as recently as June, and why wasn't I on my same old stims medicine. She said, well we do usually use a medicine with LH in it for the over-40s...  Me: does Puregon have  LH in it?  Her: no  Me: then why are we using it?  Her: well, we try a lot of different things  Me: I'm 46 in November, I legally have to stop treatment then, WTF  Her: well, we'll try something different this next month    Me: (trying to hold back tears) And why have you never taken blood, don't you need to see my AMH levels or those other FSH levels...?    Her: well, regardless of what they said, you'd want to be treated anyway, right? So what's the point?    Me: and you saw nothing? Nothing on Monday, nothing today?  Her: nope, that happens sometimes.  Me: so why didn't you switch or do something differently on Monday? Or cancel things?    Her:  Looks like you just didn't respond to the Puregon.


Okay, so, what the hell? What is the proper procedure for this nonsense? I read the Penny/Serum thread and it seems like they go gangbusters with the tests and the procedures and the full-on attack to get you preggers. Are these Danes wasting my time, or am I (quite possibly) crazy with hormones (wasted hormones) and grief? 

OH, and btw, as of today I'm getting a little bit of cervical mucus. Isn't that a sign I'm ovulating

I'm just.......... grrrghghgh.


----------



## justineb

Little B     Penny at Serum had me on 300 Altermon (like Fostimon) and 225 Merional which is like Menopur and contains LH as well (increasing to 300 Merional,  on last two days of stimms, so 525 in total for days 1-9 and 600 for days 10-11 of stimms, I stimmed for 11 days. When I was 42 I was given 300 Menopur at a different UK clinic. This cycle at Serum,  I started cetrotide on day 8 after blood tests.  I am 44 and this time I made six eggs from my left ovary (I would have had more if I had not had an upset right ovary from the large cyst I had left over from Clomid in March/April).  I really would recommend Serum, that way you won't have the age cut off pressure either.

Justine xx


----------



## BECKY7

Yes little B  you are ovulating if our getting CM  get jiggy in the next 5 day  but I was told 2nd peak and in the morning (jiggy) is better  (what do I know)
Becky7 xx


----------



## Little B

Thanks Justine,

I am working on DH to okay either Penny/Serum or Zlin (Czech Republic). Zlin might win as we have a friend of a friend who made three babies there, and we could technically drive there, which beats Greece. To me, 13 hours is nothing, but I grew up in the middle of America. I want a try or two with my own eggs, regardless. Lucky you -- I hope you are doing well with your little ones and that scary bleeding has stopped. I am using your good fortune as a candle in the dark!

Becky - that's what I thought?!! I forced myself upon my DH (just kidding) last night and will do so when he gets home from work.

In general, I really get a lacksadiasical feel from Danish medicine in general. Making me miscarry for almost 4 weeks ("ahhh, give it a little more time"), but as Maigaard is in the business of making money and getting good stats, I thought there would be a sense of urgency.


any other thoughts are really appreciated!


----------



## urbangirl

Little B, I read your post and I found it quite upsetting because the nurse just doesn’t seem to care,
or get how important this is, especially with your age.  I simply wouldn’t give my money to a clinic 
like that.  Re taking blood tests, some clinics do and some don’t, one of my favourite clinics doesn’t 
do them but gets good results for me regardless (in terms of embryo numbers and quality).  Before 
you started your treatment did you not have an opportunity to discuss with the doctor their protocol 
and why they were suggesting it for you?

Regarding the cetrotide, different clinics start that at different times, I’ve been asked to start it 
when the main follicles were at 14 mm and at another clinic at 16mm, so day 7 might not be a bad 
thing, I don’t know if it makes any difference, it’s just more expensive if you start it early because it means you have to take more of them!
Not all clinics will want to take your amh levels, I don’t bother having mine done anymore because 
it’s terminally low so it would just depress me!  As you’re 45 they probably presumed you would be 
a poor responder anyway.  
A lot of clinics will want to know your FSH, because some won’t treat you that month if it’s above a 
certain level, but if you wanted to have IVF that month anyway perhaps it wouldn’t have been 
significant for you?  I’ve had an IVF and got a satisfactory result (good quality embryos, even though I’didn't get a bfp) and later found out that my FSH that month was 15, which is too high for some clinics.  However, if you don’t feel they are taking enough care with you or if they are not willing to give you the 
information and explanations about your cycle that you want I would definitely go elsewhere.  At 45
it’s too important to be wasting time at a clinic that isn’t doing their very best for you.

One other thing, you've had three miscarriages, do they refer you to a dedicated miscarriage clinic in Denmark when you've had three+?  You would be referred for the same in the UK.  If not, it may be a good idea to see a specialist in that to have all the tests related to miscarriage to rule out conditions known to cause it.
Good luck with your next step, Serum and Czech Repbublic are both good choices.


----------



## Little B

no, Urban, they don't worry too much about miscarriages when you are this age. They shake their heads and say "donor eggs". actually, the first time I was pregnant, naturally, and miscarried was the first time I met my gyno here. She said, in a nice way, it'd be a miracle if you were able to carry a baby to term, or even got pregnant, at your age. I looked her in the eye and said, well then expect another miracle. And six months later I got pregnant again (for about three days) and six months after that, pregnant again (and even saw a heartbeat). All times, natural.

Surely that means something. Someone best the damn odds, why not me?

Waiting for AF to come so I can get this next IVF going.


----------



## Little B

soooo..... I guess no one comes here anymore? Three posts in two weeks.

Mish, what happened with whomever complained about all of the pregnancy talk?


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## magz1

hi, i`m new to this thread but got pregnant with ivf using my own eggs last year aged 42. We are thinking of doing a 2nd round of ivf,  anyone used their own eggs at 43 and half lol and had a good outcome? Also i`m still breastfeeding but wanted to know if anyone knows can you take all the previtamins and DHEA if your stil breast feeding? thanx x


----------



## mfmcmoo

Hi Magz1. I am also thinking of trying again - but naturally with maybe mild stimms. I am also still breastfeeding but need to start prepping my body soon. Everything I have read has said that it is advised not to take DHEA and all the other stuff too (L'arginine) whilst breastfeeding as there have been no studies whatsoever to understand the effects on breastmilk. I read somewhere else earlier of somebody else taking 25mg of DHEA while she was still breastfeeding and she did not seem to see any negative effects with her baby. I am tapering down with breastfeeding in order to start taking full list of supplements. I started with lower levels of supplements 3 weeks ago, including 25mg DHEA. I have not seen any negative effects with my little one. I read somewhere that DHEA stays in the body for 1-3 hours, but not sure where I read it. So I have been trying to take the supplement as far from breastfeeding time as possible. The other supplements such as CoQ10 and selenium also don't have any research on effects on breastmilk, but i figured, as you take these through out pregnancy anyway, lower doses should not infact harm my baby, as she would have been getting these anyway whilst she was inside.

Let me know what you decide. I find it amazing how little research has been done in this area of breast milk. PS there are other supplements such as myo-inositol and melatonin, which I am not yet taking, but would like to start. 
Regards


----------



## neema

LittleB - I guess that must have put most people off. What surprised me is that when Poppy, CD, Gladys, Kki et al where pregnant, there was so much support for them from everyone esp Justineb. No one ever complained about there being too pregnancy talk then!!. It's a shame as the thread has now gone very quiet. 

Kiki - How are you and Toddy doing?.

Justine - Hi hun, check your inbox.

Di - Hi hun, hope all is well. Yes i am still basting and AF turned up yesterday. I will go back on clomid this month as i took a 3 month break from it. How are you doing?.

Hi to the new ladies and to everyone else.


----------



## Blubelle

Hi everyone!

I hope you don't mind me joining in, I'm new on the IVF front! I'm starting my IVF treatment in the next 2weeks! I'm excited and nervous at the same time! It's been a journey to get here so far, just like everyone else, and I just want to say how uplifting it is to read all your posts and the journeys you've been on, it's lovely to hear you all talking and supporting one another.

I really don't know where I would be with out FF and the support I've had the past year  

I'm am concerned that I have a low AMH 1.43 pmol.. That's LOW! Oh god! I'm nervous it won't happen, and I worry I've lost my chance before I've even been able to really begin!

Thank you for all being on here if you have any words if wisdom what I can do to improve chances I'd be really grateful xx 

Hoping and  Our dreams come true

Bell xxxxxxx


----------



## mfmcmoo

Hi All

Thought this may help if you are prepping your bodies - I put together a list of supplements, including some of the latest stuff being used in fertility clinics for improving egg quality. Also - info for the men.

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=294994.0


----------



## Little B

thanks for the link M-Moo, that list is huge! I'm taking most of those, if my prenatal vitamin is doing the work it says it is.

and yes, Neema, strange. I had posted earlier, something about, wtf, people are supposed to pour out their hearts and souls and then go away once they are pregnant? So I guess this is for cyclers and the other is for cyclers plus mommies plus.. I dunno, everyone is really sweet. I am going to check in.

So, want to get you opinion about this situation: my cancelled IVF has been un-cancelled.

We finally got started, I questioned the medicine but hey, they know best, scan, sorry Euro talk there, ultrasound Day...5?6?  apparently nothing. More medicine, u/s Day 10, nothing again. Tears and anger. I asked why they didn't use Menopur or anything with an LH+, they had no real answer, we decided to try again next month.

So, I got the DH to okay Zlin or Greece, with Zlin being in the lead as it is recommended by an actual person and we can drive there. It was sort of conditional on trying Denmark again, as that's where we live and where the DH feels comfortable. Plus -- we didn't get charged for the appointments, just the medicine. I think, I'm 95% sure, I mean this is a private clinic, so there are charges, but last time we paid nothing after two ultrasounds (last year when I got preggers naturally). 

So we went in yesterday to get a baseline u/s to start another cycle, when my period finally starts and after 2 1/2 weeks of doing nothing (no meds) except taking my folic acid, royal jelly and prenatal vitamins, I have three follicles! One little guy on the left, 9mm, two on my lazy right side, 11mm and 13mm.

well, well, what have we here then?

So they were very encouraged, changed up the protocol from "Start Over and we'll give you better meds", to, "here's some Menopur - grow those eggs-  and also some Cetrotide, and I have a new scan set for Saturday. They are saying that it will be all systems go for this cycle.

I left the place skipping with joy. I freaking KNEW something was going on in there, you know how we can feel things happening or not happening, with maybe 85% accuracy.

The only fly in the ointment is my cynicism. This is a for-profit place. They have made nothing off of me yet. And I cease, legally, to be a customer if I am not in serious hard and firm treatment on November 14th (my 46th birthday, dearGodwhendidIgetthisold). I don't think they can even change my prescription after that. These Danes do not F around. It's my last chance.

So, 3 follicles? What are the odds? This will probably be a huge waste of time, money and hope.

But what else can I do?



Bee


----------



## mfmcmoo

Oh Bee

I hope it works out for you. My friend at 44 years gave birth to twin boys through IVF - she had quite a few IVF tries and swears the boys were her last 2 eggs left! So here is hoping!


----------



## BECKY7

Hey ladies  I went to see kuki and sasha  OMG she 1 lucky lady as she is absoutly gorgoues  and tiny  even kuki said she knackered  honestly she look fab lol. Well done kuki
Becky7 xx


----------



## Little B

so my uncancelled cycle was re-cancelled on Saturday. The three follicles were shrinking and the lining apparently was thinning as well.

Just waiting for AF again. I'm exhausted as the hormones crash out of my system.


----------



## dillydolly

I need some advice I have out a post here

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=295289.0

If you get chance could you read and advice if poss!

Thanks


----------



## Little B

advice on which clinic, do you mean?

Afraid I can't really help with that, my DH is committed to doing this in Denmark (Maigaard), for now. I'm working on talking him into Penny's House of Miracles.


Bee


----------



## poppy40

Little B - so sorry hun you must be mentally & physcially drained   Keep working on DH or personally I would just book a long weekend in Athens  

dillydolly - a LOT of ladies on this thread have finally had their miracles with Penny at Serum (Athens). Why don't you contact her for a free consultation and she can go through all your history and you can see what she has to say - Agate has written a fab thread on the clinic so def worth having a read http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=274114.0

Neema - hi hun, lots of luck for the clomid  

mfmcmoo & magz1 - I took DHEA before my cycle which resulted in my DS2 as well as CoQ10 and a truckload of other supplements - got a lot of info from Agate's FAQ. My consultant has seen great results with the DHEA & it can apparently reduce chances of miscarriage.

Love to everyone xx


----------



## Chandlerino

Little B - how disappointing for you 

Dilly - we've spoken before and are similiar in hoping for a natural miracle! I'm hoping to go to reprofit at half term - fed up of waiting and trying naturally. DH not happy but will go along with it. Chose reprofit for financial reasons really although Penny is very impressive. If money wasn't an issue then I would go to her. Flights and accom were much more expensive for the time I'd want to go for Greece. That said, Reprofit also get results and a lot of Canadians and Americans use the clinic. Having lived in the Us I know that Americans have very high standards [no offence] so the clinic must be good. I did consider dogus but they don't seem to get the results that reprofit and serum do.

Hi Poppy - was it Dr Reddy who mentioned DHEA? She's been great but never mentioned it to me. Am waiting for a NHS hysto which she's arranged for me.


----------



## dillydolly

Poppy and little b

I have spoken to penny but she said try DP on antibiotics and wait and try naturally. The info is in the other post


----------



## dillydolly

Chandlerino

Did reprofit mention DHEA to you?, I emailed them over weekend they suggested it to me


----------



## Chandlerino

No - although its probably because I have PCOS. I think DHEA raises your testosterone levels so not good for ladies with PCOS.


----------



## poppy40

Chandler - hiya, yes it was Mrs R who suggested DHEA but have heard it shouldn't be taken if you have PCOS. Lots of luck for your hysto and for your next tx  

Dilly - sorry hon, must have missed that bit, DS is usually trying to demolish the keyboard! 

xx


----------



## mfmcmoo

Chandlerino - I think there is a version of DHEA that does not convert to testosterone - you may want to ask about that - Have a look at KETO 7 DHEA. 
Also, you may find something on here for improving egg quality

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=294994.0


----------



## blonde_one

Just found this thread again - kind of put aside maybe doing OE again due to my age but seeing the good results on here we are still wondering whether to or not .........

Hope everyone is good and hope to catch up with all soon x


----------



## Blubelle

Hi everyone! 

Hope your all ok, I've just been reading up on DHEA, which sounds amazing and clearly is achieving results, however I've also read its not good if you've had a history of fibroids before? Does anyone know anyone who has taken it and been successful and fibroids concerns?

Take care all


----------



## kittykins

OMG - my head is spinning!

We have today had our follow up after our failed IVF - we made good eggs last time (15 of which 11 fertilised - got 2 blastos ((grade 1 which we thought was good but our clinic work on 5 being good!!!)) so a bit disappointed at that - came home and spent an hour looking up DHEA thinking hey this was the answer then came on here and now I dont know what to do! 

Basically, we thought we were borderline PCOS but when we saw the file on the front it said unexplained - do you think DHEA is a good idea for us this try - we have decided today to go again with our own eggs as all they could say was that the embryos were not top grade so it is worth us trying again as we make good eggs and sperm so as it was our first IVF 'who knows'.  Sorry its a me post but my mind is upside down. 

Has anyone heard from HMB?  

Thank you everyone and love to you all.


----------



## mfmcmoo

Hi Kittykins - it does get overwhelming at times - with all the information. There is a lot of information on DHEA on the internet and indeed in this forum. I already put a link on here, but you may want to look at these other things which some people are taking specifically for PCOS - see the section under woman: other supplements to consider. 
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=294994.0

Regards


----------



## kittykins

ah thanx mfm - i dont know what to do - trouble is we dont know where to turn.  Im just so tired today - hopefully (or not!!!AF should arrive tomorrow) and then i will feel (soz just type fell and had to delete but also had to laugh) or cry x  I just dont know wot to do -got to blasto but s


----------



## HMB

Kittykins!! Glad to hear you can go for another IVF. It does sound like it went pretty well. As for DHEA, I don't know what to tell you. Penny at Serum told me not to take it, because it might damage quality of eggs at my age. You are Closer to 40 than me though and several women around 40 (and under) have used it with success, including Poppy who jut posted on here. 

I am in the middle of my tx at Serum. Going for another scan today, EC PROBABLY Saturday. 

As for TTC while breastfeeding: don't you need to stop breastfeeding FIRST, take a prolactin test to see if the levels are too high? Prolactin at high levels can prevent you from getting pregnant. I would ask my doctor.


----------



## Tommi

Just popping on here to say... gosh the whole dhea thing is baffling. I bought some from Biovea and took it for a bit this time last year but never felt happy about it. My old clinic had no idea about it but my current clinic, which is very research focused, is absolutely 100% against it. So I won't be touching it again. But I do appreciate that some clinics do advise you to take it. So, so hard to know what to do for the best.
Txx

PS LittleB whatever did happen to the people complaining about people talking about getting pregnant? That was all so odd!


----------



## Little B

hey Tommi,

I dunno, maybe they left, or are lurking? I guess the thread is split in two now, with mainly treatment talk here andtreatment, pregnancies, babies, life, etc over at Long Term Chatters. Nice to dip into both, I love hearing how all the mamas are doing!

I know nothng about DHEA, I know my clinic and my regular doc wouldn't prescribe me antibiotics and gave me a "sure, sure, whatever" when I talked about flaxseed, selenium, etc. They only required folic acid. Oh, and another HIV test as mine has run out. Let me think, did I sleep with any heroin addicts in the last year....

Some of these supplements might be doing little to no good but at least they let you feel like you are doing something to better the odds. Psychologically I feel that's important.  Freaking Danes!

AFM, I await AF to get this party started one more time before I turn 46 in 5 weeks  .

Bee


----------



## poppy40

Tommi - on the DHEA topic, I guess it depends on the clinic and the individual. My FSH is high, AMH not brilliant and I only have one working ovary and 2 previous MCs so guess they thought it was worth a go for me. I know some clinics will test testosterone levels before recommending it although mine don't. How are all the supplements going?

Blubelle - afraid I don't know about effects of DHEA on fibroids, I don't think a lot of research has been done on it yet it all seems pretty small scale.

xx


----------



## neema

Poppy - Good to see you here   and thanks. I love Harry's pic....he is so cute  . 

Re: the DHEA topic i have never taken it but it may be worth trying, i have however just ordered some melatonin 1mg. It apparently helps improving egg quality. 

Hi to everyone on this board and the other board and good luck to everyone on tx or trying naturally.xx


----------



## Blubelle

Poppy, thank you for the reply, I was just wondering if anyone had known of anyone else just incase? I read somewhere that people with PCOS and fibroids and other abnormalities shouldn't take it? I'm gutted as I really wanted to give myself the best chance possible, the DR that had written about it advised more natural remedies to balance our DHEA, for example yoga, eating no White flour, sugar, processed foods or preservatives. But I really would like to give DHEA ago as I can't see the harm in it? I've tried cutting out all the other stuff, so we shall see if it helps when I start IVF. What did make me laugh was he also advised to lie on your back with your legs in the air supported up a wall, making an L shape, apparently this will sort out all our DHEA hormones.... Lol..... Just one simple move? Right!

Anyway positive note is I finally have my IVF chat next week and all being well I can hopefully start next cycle! Excited very much and nervous!

Thank you to you lovely ladies on here for support and advice, you are forever valuable!

Love and luck to all you lovely ladies

Bell xxxxxooooxxxxxx


----------



## poppy40

Blubelle - lol at the lying with legs in the air  Maybe worth asking Agate her opinion re DHEA and Fibroids? Lots of luck with your tx   xx


----------



## Little B

just doing some more rsearch and reading the extensive Serum threads (so helpful!).

Has anyone here had to have a hysteroscopy? Is it mandatory to be checked for that tye of thing? I know I can GET pregnant, and implant, its just that (probably) my eggs are too old. A hysteroscopy won't do anything about that, so, in the vein of saving time, money and pain, I can skip that, right?


----------



## HMB

Little b, you can always have a phone consult with Serum, it's FREE. If you don't have anything truly suspicious then given the age factor, you can probs skip it. An aquascan is good for taking a look etc and is about 200€ at Serum. That might be something for you to do. xx

Had ET today! 2 grade 1 embies on board, 3 day transfer! Thimios and Penny actually argued about taking them to blast, because they were so good this time! Yippee! Very happy. Now I am PUPO.


----------



## Tommi

Huge congrats HMB!           
Txx


----------



## alexine

Great news HMB!     
xxA


----------



## justineb

Hi ladies

Just popping by to say hello

HMB- big congratulations on being PUPO.

Little B - sent you a PM about Serum hysto.

Alexine - are you ok? Have you made your mind up about which clinic to use for your next try?

Hi to everyone else

Justine


----------



## Little B

oh, HMB that's fantastic! Feet up, positive thoughts, all good wishes going your way!


----------



## poppy40

Little B - was going to say 'ask Justine' but saw she has PMd you 

HMB - yay fantastic news! - keeping everything crossed for you  

xx


----------



## Blubelle

Hi there!!

HMB huge congratulations for today Ive got everything crossed for you!  

I'm officially on my IVF travels, I've done my very first injection today and feel very proud of myself! Lol!!     keeping my bits crossed for us all lovely ladies!   

Take care for now

Bell   xxx


----------



## Little B

feels good to get started, right Bluebelle? Good luck to you!


----------



## Blubelle

Hey little B!!

How you doing? Thanks for the response, yes I'm glad to be on my way finally, seems alittle surreal? What are you doing? Sorry I haven't read through all the thread messages, are you doing it here? And which hospital? Xxx

Good luck anyway! Xxxx keep me posted xxx


----------



## Little B

well, well, well,

I was going to say I start the long protocol tomorrow.

Except I received this email from the clinic (Maigaard) in response to my "we ARE doing the long protocol, right, cause I am ready to go" email.

_The legislations in Denmark have been changed 10 days ago.
After the change of the legislations, we are not allowed to do any treatment, when the woman is 46 years old.
Before this change in the legislation, we were allowed to fulfill a treatment, if the woman filled 46 during the treatment.
According to the new legislations, we need to do the short treatment._

not only is this complete bull**t, but they are aware that I have a trip booked to London for a wedding on October 20th. So now I cancel that, losing the flight/train/hotel money, or.... I just get out of there, and another month goes by, and I get my self to the Czech Republic.

I am distraught, I am so, so irritated, and I am having another glass of wine.

Bee


----------



## Chandlerino

Little B

Ditch that clinic they have caused you so much hassle. You want a clinic that works for you - I'm off to Reprofit in Cz Rep in a few weeks and Serum has an excellent reputation. I had a consult with Penny and I was impressed and would have gone there but can't due to hardly any leave left at work...


----------



## Blubelle

Bee! That is s**t!!! I agree drop them quick as possible and spend your good earned money with a clinic that will support you!

So sorry your going through this! Hugs coming your way  and have a large one for me

Bell xxxxx


----------



## justineb

Little B    that's so horrible about the clinic, why not ask them to refund the money for your cancelled trip to London given that they could have told you this ten days ago!! You need to go to a clinic that supports you. Some people I know are going to Reprogenesis in Czech to start the process there, Kuki went to Reprofit, Serum is in Athens though...... Lindz, SarahEssex, LJ, myself and now Isobel67 have all had BFPs from Serum, Carnival Diva got hers from Dogus in Cyprus, Alexine, Poppy and Gladys managed in UK clinics. I can't remember where Kizzy went or Gia but they both got BFPs too - it was abroad somewhere.
Justine x


----------



## neema

HMB- Congrats on being PUPO, fx for you      

LittleB - Hope that your treatment goes swimmingly      . So sorry about what you are going through at your clinic, why don't you move to another clinic?. You need to be having tx when you are relaxed and chilled not agitated  

Isobel67 - Congratulations on your BFP!!

Justineb - Hi hun, good to see you here, guess your bump has started to show now  

Di - Thinking of you and fx for you.


----------



## justineb

Hey Neema  I will Pm you soon (mad here as builders in the house!)

Justine xx


----------



## mfmcmoo

Hi JustineB

Congratulations! What is cordyceps?

Thanks


----------



## justineb

Mfmcmoo - Sorry, just saw the post. Cordyceps are a supplement that Serum in Athens recommended, they recommend wild ones sourced from Tibet. It's a kind of super fungal product (I guess a bit like Kambousha!), it's meant to help egg quality and sperm and modulate immune response. My partner and I both took them for six months before our BFP, with some other herbs recommended by Serum (Vitality Herbs also from the Far East). They are pricey though.......but not as pricey as having IVF fail...... You would find more by looking at the Serum threads or PM me if you want more details. I did look on pub med for medical papers and did find some, so I figured it was worth a go. My OH has a neurological illness and they had quite a remarkable effect on him, really helping his energy levels and symptoms etc.

Justine


----------



## mfmcmoo

Hi Justineb - just tried to pm you but your mail box is full - I would love to know a bit more about the supplements you are talking about - the name of hte brand you bought, where you bought it from, what dosage to take and for how long (e.g. 3 months before, stop at pregnancy etc.)

Thanks


----------



## justineb

Mfmcmoo - have made some space from box now. They are basically Chinese medicines from a supplier in Malaysia recommended by Penny at Serum (she's the medical director there). The supplier is John Bowen, his website is http://www.herbalassistance.com/

A lot of Serum ladies take them.....

I did buy some cultivated cordyceps from Mycology Research Laboratories as well but they didn't have the same effect on my OH as the ones from John Bowen, the ones from him seem much more potent. OHs sperm were much better this time......

Hope this helps

Justine

/links


----------



## mfmcmoo

Awesome - thanks - always on the lookout for new and interesting treatments

Regards


----------



## Supercalifragilistic

Hello there, can a newbie join in? I've just had a first consultation about IVF and have been told that our chances are 15% due to my age and high BMI. I've been with my husband for 8 years but when we met I was very, very ill and the diagnosis took a long time, after which I had to have an operation. We thought we would be okay... and I fell pregnant naturally in 2011 a month after we stopped using contraception... only to have a MC. They discovered a very large fibroid which was removed in full abdominal surgery last August. I've recovered fine but after having a hycosy they told me my tubes were partially scarred shut. Haven't been able to get pregnat and my consultant referred us to IVF. Just two cycles will take all our savings which we were trying to keep for buying a house of our own in the future. 

I am terrified, mostly. Dare not hope much. But we have to do this or we'd never forgive ourselves.


----------



## mfmcmoo

Supercalifragilistic - before you go for treatment, if you have a choice of timing - my advice is rather prep your body properly (like for at least 3 months) than rush into treatment. I rushed into my first treatment as I felt we were against the clock - it was a disaster - eggs poor quality etc. It is not worth wasting a chance especially if you have limited financial means to carry on with treatments indefinitely and you are against the clock. Please see this list of things I put together http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=294994.0. 
Look into DHEA - it has had amazing success with older woman regarding egg quality. I know I keep harping on about it - but I wish someone had kept on about it when I turned 40 and I had looked into it - i may have saved myself a lot of heartache and £££££. The first part of the list is pretty important.
Good luck


----------



## Supercalifragilistic

mfmcmoo said:


> Supercalifragilistic - before you go for treatment, if you have a choice of timing - my advice is rather prep your body properly (like for at least 3 months) than rush into treatment. I rushed into my first treatment as I felt we were against the clock - it was a disaster - eggs poor quality etc. It is not worth wasting a chance especially if you have limited financial means to carry on with treatments indefinitely and you are against the clock. Please see this list of things I put together http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=294994.0.
> Look into DHEA - it has had amazing success with older woman regarding egg quality. I know I keep harping on about it - but I wish someone had kept on about it when I turned 40 and I had looked into it - i may have saved myself a lot of heartache and £££££. The first part of the list is pretty important.
> Good luck


Thank you, thank you, thank you for this very useful advice.

Alas, there is one more factor to take into account: I may very well be about to face (unfair) redundancy. I've worked for the company for six and a half years. If I get pregnant as soon as possible, they will have to pay my maternity leave. If, however, I lose my job and have to go through IVF whilst out of work/looking for job, how would I explain to my new potential employer what my situation is... not to mention that if I were to get a new job, then fall pregnant within a few months of starting, it would be very unfair to my new employer and I wouldn't get paid maternity leave.

I am kind of rather trapped and desperate right now. And stress is never good for these things.

I did consider taking redundancy, getting a new job, prepping myself for two years (including losing weight), but then I'd be 42 and our chances would be even lower.


----------



## Chandlerino

My advice is go abroad for treatment - its cheaper either Reprofit in Czech Republic or Serum in Greece - don't mess about with NHS hospitals as most of the time they do a one size fits all protocol. Like you said no time to hang about. xx


----------



## Supercalifragilistic

Sorry to be such a newbie: but by the time you work out your foreign travel costs (presumably you need several visits or to stay there for a period of a month), won't it cost the same anyway?


----------



## Chandlerino

I stayed 10 days in the Czech repbublic and even with hotel and flights I imagine the total cost will be around 4k. I've done ICSI in the UK and that cost just over 5k!

Costs vary clinic to clinic.


----------



## Supercalifragilistic

Hmm, ok, that's interesting, thank you. We've been quoted £4k for our treatment in UK (but I realise the costs are not fixed because you never know what's going to happen).


----------



## Chandlerino

Is that inc drugs?

Sorry to be blunt but what are the pregnancy rates at that clinic for the over 40s? Its worth checking out what it is....


----------



## Supercalifragilistic

Chandlerino said:


> Is that inc drugs?
> 
> Sorry to be blunt but what are the pregnancy rates at that clinic for the over 40s? Its worth checking out what it is....


From the paperwork they gave me, for the 40-42 age group:

% of clinical pregnancies: 16.7%

% of clinical pregnancies per egg recovery: 17.5%

% of clinical pregnancies per embryo transfer: 19.2%


----------



## dillydolly

Supercalifragilistic

If you were to get a new job I think your employer would have to pay you maternity pay. It may be at basic rate with no extras but not many places pay extras these days. Also I wouldn't worry about being fair on the employer as I think they actually claim back what they pay you via tax or inland revenue or government.... Not sure where but somewhere!


----------



## Supercalifragilistic

dillydolly said:


> Supercalifragilistic
> 
> If you were to get a new job I think your employer would have to pay you maternity pay. It may be at basic rate with no extras but not many places pay extras these days. Also I wouldn't worry about being fair on the employer as I think they actually claim back what they pay you via tax or inland revenue or government.... Not sure where but somewhere!


Hmm, perhaps. But I wouldn't want to get a really nice new job with an employer I really want to be with only to let them down and disappear for a few months shortly after joining! One of the really problematic things is that if I wish to continue working at my current level, I am restricted to about 6 viable employers as I am working in a highly specialised industry. Unless I want to move abroad. I would, actually, but my husband is a civil servant and doing very well and I wouldn't want to force him to move.


----------



## mfmcmoo

Even abroad, you only need about 3 weeks maximum per IVF session, but obviously, your choice.


----------



## SoKar

Hi ladies, I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this question but I'd appreciate any help you can offer.  I recently started IVF at one of the top London IVF clinics for over 40s.  I was on 150 gonal F and 225 menopur which was reduced after 5 days because my estradiol was high.  Anyway, it was determined during my scans that one ovary was covered in adhesions and a 6 cm fibroid obstructed access to it for EC.  The other ovary would also be difficult to access vaginally But was very close to the skin when viewed by an abdominal US. Therefore, we agreed that an outside surgeon would be present during EC to attempt to collect the eggs abdominally if it proved impossible to collect vaginally.  However, on the day of EC, the surgeon was not present.  As of today, my repeated questions, both before and after attempted EC, about why the surgeon was not present, have not been answered.  I just can't seem to get a straightforward answer.  Needless to say, I'm very distressed about this and don't know where to go from here. Are there any good clinics out there who do abdominal EC? Should I push for a response from my current clinic? I just not know what to do.  Please help!


----------



## mfmcmoo

SoKar - So sorry to hear your current troubles and that I cannot answer your question, but I had a suggestion, which may help you get more responses - why don't you start a completely new topic on the board using an appropriate header so that someone with the same/similar experience may be able to help you. Just copy your current post and paste it in a new topic on the over 40's board - with the heading something like "abdominal egg retrieval - anyone know of a good clinic?"


----------



## HMB

SoKar, hello. It sounds like you need a hysterscopy and possible operation to remove adhesions and deal with fibroids, all of which can cause probs for a successful IVF. I would do that first. xx


----------



## SoKar

Mfmcmoo, that's a great suggestion! I'll do that. Thank you!
HMB, I probably do except that I have a history of bowel obstruction caused by adhesions from previous surgeries (ruptured appendix and subsequent laparoscopy to clean up the mess when I was 17.  I'm now 41! Also, surgery to relieve bowel obstruction and the last one to clip my tubes). Therefore I was advised to avoid surgery unless absolutely necessary.  The fibroid is not in the uterus but in the cavity, not sure now if it is subserosal or submucosal, but I've been told it should not hinder implantation or pregnancy. Honestly, I have combed through this and several other boards and had a good idea going into this that my first try may not be successful and I thought I had a good idea of the types of problems that could be encountered but this threw me for a loop.  The stims went well, the eggs are there but we can't get them.  I really didn't expect that and there doesn't seem to be much information on this but I'll create a new thread as suggested and see what happens.

Thanks again for your suggestions and I wish you all the best.


----------



## poppy40

Sokar - it maybe worth having a telephone consult with Penny at Serum to see if she can help or advise. There's some info on the clinic on here http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=274114.0 Good luck  x


----------



## Jammy J

Hi ladies. Pls can I gate crash your thread.. Am just about to start round 3 of own eggs ivf.  Am hoping it will be 3rd time lucky.
I need to read back go catch up on you all but wish you all the best of luck in your journeys xx


----------



## Supercalifragilistic

Good luck, JAH.

I'm down-regulating for my first cycle of IVF now so we shall see how that goes...


----------



## magz1

hi jah 123, i`m going to do 2nd round of ivf using my own eggs, i`m 44 had my little one from 1st round with own eggs at 43. dont know what age u are but hopefully we`ll both br pupo real soon. goodluck to all the ladies on here undergoin or going for treatment this year.mary xxxxxx


----------



## Jammy J

Hi magz, thanks for the hello. I'm 42 and 43 in April. Your message has given me hope!! Many thx and good luck xx


----------



## magz1

i went for treatment planning appointment yesterday, due to start short protocol middle of march and egg collection end of march. the statistics i was given based on my own facts was 30% chance of getting pregnant and 20% chance of live brth, i found these really high and dont know whether to believe her or not but she has always been so straight with us. this is my 2nd round of ivf, my first resulted in my little one whom i`m trying for a sibling. i`ll be 44(just lol) and using my own eggs. my amh is 7.63. she gave me the statistics based on i have proven fertility, the only thing wrong is i was sterilised 19 years ago following birth of my other child. what do you think of the stats given to me thanks in advance for your replies mary xxxxxx


----------



## HMB

Mag your stats are fantastic. who gave them to you? What clinic? Good luck.


----------



## magz1

hi HMB, i thought they are too good to be true, the research i have done puts it at 5% or below. but she said on an individual basis thats what stats she would give me. the clinic is CRGW in south wales. i have no real fertility issues other than being sterilised and a bit over 40 lol. do you think she`s giving me false hope, u cant win with us lot on here, we moan if they give us low stats and moan if they give us high stats lol. i see u got pregnant using own eggs, what was your recipe for success mary xxxxxx


----------



## HMB

Mag, not sure about the sterilized part, how are they planning to overcome that?? I went to Serum in Greece. Fantastic clinic, everything personally tailored and it's open practically all year including Sat & Sun. As part of my tx, I took some immune meds empirically. LOW stimulation meds, not the high levels for the under 40s.


----------



## magz1

they`re doing same protocol has last time short protocol where u are put on supercur 0.5 and stimmed for approx 11 days, start off on 450 menopur then they dropped that after scan to 225, then hcg shot the egg collection approx 36 hours later, day 3 transferr. supported by gestone 100 mg injections (was 50mg on 1st ivf but upped after some spotting). hopefully it`ll work again, just got to keep everything crossed. she did say that i`m unique lol. xxxxxx


----------



## Tommi

Good luck Magz1!
Txx


----------



## BrightGlo

Hi, Very encouraging to hear your successes it has also given me hope. Good luck Magz1 hope it does work again. My doc at CRM has suggested after 2 failed treatments that I should consider DE because of my age and he has quoted the general success rate stats of 5%, never given me my own stats. Would you suggest I try another clinic for another opinion? 
X


----------



## HMB

Hi BrightGlo  

After 40, you really have look at the individual profile, the stats are too general. Start with all your hormone results and AFC (anthral follicle count). If your AFC is 5+, you are above the norm and time to go to a clinic with experience with 42+ yrs patients. Of course there are other factors, but again it's all about your profile. Also consider tandem where you use both your eggs and a donors.


----------



## Supercalifragilistic

Would just like to report that we've at least reached a stage on our first IVF cycle where we got six eggs, four of which fertilised and two four-cell embryos were put back on Friday just gone. Of course there's every chance that it will still go wrong - but at least it shows that it's possible for older eggs to be fertilised and develop normally... luckily my husband's sperm is normal and we have had one natural pregnancy before (but it resulted in mc - which is why I am not overly hopeful that we'll get much past the embryo stage).

I think a lot of this is really trying to see what the specific issues are in each case and deal with those if at all possible.

A close friend of mine has just had her third and successful round of IVF, also in her 40s. Her situation looked far more unlikely on paper but she has finally got lucky and is now in her fourth month of pregnancy.


----------



## magz1

goodluck supercalifragilistic, hope you get your BFP. thanx tommi, heres hoping u get what u want aswell. xxxxxx


----------



## BrightGlo

Thanx HMB for the advice, hadn't considered tandem, food for thought. 
Good luck Supercalifragilistic !


----------



## Floss39

Hi Girls, I have a question to see if anyone else has undergone a natural FET.  We did our 2nd IVF last Nov, but my pre ovulation progesterone levels were high & we were advised to go to elective freeze.  Started down regging for frozen cycle last month, was on pill & then buserlin sniffer, but I didn't down reg - had multiple growing follies and a thick lining, despite having had a bleed after coming of the pill.  So the cycle was cancelled, which is ok as I really don;t want to waste my 3 embies.

My Clinic has suggested trying a natural cycle, to use my body as opposed to going against it, just wondering if anyone else has done a natural cycle - is it sensible to try as I am starting to be concerned that the timing of getting lining right for ET is difficult.

I am 41, have had 3 natural pregnancies one of which ended up with my son who was stillborn at 35 weeks just over 2 years ago, the other 2 miscarried.  The 1st IVF got us a BFP with just 1 average grade 4 cell embryo, but was a chemical pregnancy, so I am keen to make the very most of our 3 embies which are so hard got. Any thoughts would be most welcome, thanks


----------



## magz1

i cant really comment on a natural fet has i had a medicated one i thought this was better has they can control all the hormones. i ended up with my beautiful baby boy has a result magz xxxxxx


----------



## alexine

Floss I'm very sorry to hear you lost your son at 35 weeks. How devastating for you.  Sending you all the very best for your FET.    
xxA


----------



## Jacobsmum

Quick reply to Floss
- firstly, so sorry to hear about you stillborn son. That must have been awful. Really hope your next cycle is more positive. Natural FET - that's what I had, and it got me my little boy. I don't respond to meds well - down-regulating for long cycles sometimes took longer than expected (I was much better on flare protocols), then once 'switched off' my body stayed that way. With my final, ultimately successful treatment I had double donor. it was egg share, and the donor only got 7 eggs, so four for me, and three for her. One was immature, and two fertilised, so with only two they decided on early ET. Think it was day 2. However, it was cancelled at the last minute (in theatre!) because my lining had already started to come away. They froze the embryos and I had a natural FET two months later. Clinic normally did medicated, but were happy to try natural cycle for me, since down reg had been so hit and miss before. 
PM me if there's anything I can tell you/ you have any questions - I don't log on every day but am happy to help.
All best wishes and      for success.

Jacobs mum xx


----------



## magz1

hi, magz herecurrently undergoing ivf round 2
Floss. so sorry to hear about your little boy, i really hope this cycle is more positive for you. i


----------



## magz1

sorry it posted before i was finished, i`ve heard good things about nat fet for our age groups, so i`ll keep everything crossed for you. 

AFM, well i`m nearly there, went today for scan to check progress, i have x4 good follies possibly 5. there were a few little ones which are being disregarded. egg collection is monday, i really hope theres at least x4 eggs. i`m getting nervous now. this is my last try, its with my own eggs and i`m 44 years young lol.
magz xxxxxx


----------



## alexine

Good luck Magz1!      
xxA


----------



## Tommi

Good luck Magz1! I have everything crossed for you!    
Txx


----------



## magz1

tommi &alexine thanx, well4/5 eggs fertilised normsally so 4 little embies, transferr probs be thursday.


----------



## Tommi

That's fabulous news Magz1! I have everything crossed for you!     
Txx


----------



## Snowfallz

Hello Ladies:
I started to catch up on the posts. I'm fairly new at this site. I tried another IUI this time. I feel the Dr. was off on the timing based on my typical ovulating symptoms. The clinic seemed busy this time or rushed. I just don't feel pregnant like my other pregnancies in the past.  If I have better insurance coverage I probably do an IVF but at my age, it may not matter.  I'm 45. Anyone in here close to my age? I have that gruelling waiting period now.


----------



## dillydolly

Can any of you help me here?

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=306873.msg5465273#msg5465273


----------



## dillydolly

How many of you over 40's did long protocol?


----------



## magz1

unfortunately it was a bfn for me but I`m 44 snowfallz, so not far off your age. I`m trying to persuade hubby to do just x1 last round, the things we put ourselves through magz xxxxxx


----------



## Chandlerino

Dilly, I think a lot of clinics do long protocol as they see the best results. Personally I had the best fertilisation rate (100%) with short protocol but we are all different so that's not to say it won't work for you. For me short also gave me more embryos.

Did you clinic say why they wanted to change to long vs. short?

Chand x


----------



## dillydolly

Chandlerino

The clinic say they see the best results with long protocol and so I don't  know what to do!

I need a grown up to tell me what to do!


----------



## alexine

I did a long protocol with menopur on my first round and got pregnant with my daughter at 41. Did two subsequent short flares and ended up with 8 eggs 0% fertilisation and the last round only two, day 2 embies that I decided to freeze instead on transfer.
If I could do it all over again I wish I had done LP for the subsequent rounds.  
Good luck!    
xxA


----------



## dillydolly

Thanks alexine!


----------



## Diesy

Hello, not been here for a while.   Looking for some info on mini IVF with a downreg, and know nothing about downregging.  What's the word on the street?  Is it worth a good downreg for the 40+ gang?


----------



## Tommi

Hi Diesy
I did short protocol for IVF and a long (6 week) downreg for the FET. Both resulted in pregnancy so I really don't know what's best for over 40s. I think Agate will know though?
I've used cetrotide (really fiddly) and buserelin (evil headaches).
Good luck!    
Txx


----------



## DizziSquirrel

Sorry to butt in - I am trying to encourage the use of FF's Chat room facility, 
and it would be helpful to know if you've ever been in, would consider going in or are a regular user
please make any comments on this link - http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=308193.0
hope we see you in Chat soon

~Dizzi~


----------



## dillydolly

Hi
How many of you went abroad and got sick notes to cover you being off work? I am just wondering if its possible maybe even just for the Stimms phase and then take rest as a holiday!

Any thoughts?


----------



## Diesy

Thanks Tommi, I remember your Long Protocols of Joy, eek!  I will email the clinic I think and get things organised.

DillyDolly, I don't think you'd need time off during stimms, I think it's 2WW where you might want to take it easy.  I tried not to lift anything heavy, kinda hard when you are traveling abroad and then the almost the length of the UK on plans, trains and automobiles. 

Dizzi, saw that but I'm not really on a schedule so I can pop in, but I will go and add a time    Chat is brilliant and a welcome slot!  Thanks 

Diesy xx


----------



## dillydolly

Tommi

Was your down reg grim? I am doing LP so wondering what to expect!

What meds and dosage did you have?


----------



## Tommi

Dillydolly - it wasn't so bad really. I am a migraine sufferer so they kicked in with a vengeance when I was on the buserelin and unfortunately my Nan died while I was mid-down-reg so the clinic kept me going a bit longer so that i could get through the funeral before having my one little embie transferred. They did give me a small dose of oestrogen which helped a huge amount... no more headaches! That said, headaches in pregnancy are something else...!
I was on buserelin (.25 I think, not sure) then I started on the progynova to prep for transfer. I had loads of that. At least 4 of those blue pills a day. 
Good luck with yours! Please don't think it's an ordeal. I think the other stresses going on in my life at that time (not only Nan dying but hideous situation at work with a colleague) added to the headaches!
Txx


----------



## Diesy

Tommi   All be worth it in the end     xx

Oh, how much did the DR cost?


----------



## Tommi

Thanks Diesy!  
I can't remember the exact costs but it was cheap. The downreg drugs are nothing like as expensive as the stims. I think buserelin is cheaper than cetrotide... might be wrong.
Txx


----------



## Diesy

Oh goodie!  I'm now thinking about going straight to mini IVF since hysto seems out of my price range.  ******* NHS should do it since I'm crippled with nerve dammage and they have done nothing else for me, grrr!  Wow, where did that tirade come from, obviously shouldn't talk about NHS.  I might have to take up kick boxing or cage fighting, although I could solve it all if only I could shop!  Thanks Tommi xx


----------



## Tommi

If my experience is anything to go by I'd stay away from hysteroscopies in this country. There's not a lot of point to them compared with how they are done in Greece, I think. You just might end up worse off! So your plan seems good. Everything crossed that it works!
Txx


----------



## Ka40

Hello all
I hope you don't mind if I join you.  I'm kinda feeling abit lost at the mo.  We had our 2nd BFN today with ICSI.  My AMH last year was 1.6, so 'scrapping the barrel'!  The nurse today thinks its a very slim chance that we would be able to conceive with my own eggs due to low numbers, though we did get a grade 2 this time which we were pleased with.  She talked a lot about using donor eggs, but we are not sure if we are 'ready' for that, haven't considered it til now.
I was wondering if there is anything else we could try to give it one more try, or would we be wasting our time and money?  I believe there are drugs you can take to assist implantation?  Also I've read on here that ladies have changed diet, added supplements, had acupuncture and made lifestyle changes to help  We are willing to give anything a go, just to know that we have tried absolutely everything.  We have also thought about changing clinics?  Currently at the priory in Birmingham, but willing to travel if anyone can recommend anywhere else with fab results for us with low AMH
Sorry to go on, just lots to ponder and plenty going round and round in my head.
I'm gonna have a good ole read of your stories and hope to get to know afew peeps on here.
Good luck to all on this mad journey
Love Ka xxx


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## mfmcmoo

Ka40 - have you tried supplements http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=294994.0

If you have a look at my signature - I also had very low amh.

Apologies for short reply but v busy with the little one at the moment.

good luck

xx


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## Diesy

Hello

I'm sorry I haven't read back much, doing a bit of a panic post.  

Ka40 - the supplements page is excellent, I looked at Angelbumps one.  I was recommended DE at 41 and my AMH was nearly 20, they are really keen to send us that route.  At least you got an egg.  Have you considered a mini?  Supposed to be better for fewer eggies.  My friend got pg with a low AMH on one when a full IVF did zip.

MFMCMOO - wow you are a brilliant advert!!!

Wow, I've now read back and noticed I'm in the last few posts so not missed much!

So, erm, I'm ramping up for a mini IVF but I've had a sickness bug.  Not started acupuncture which I wanted to and not got the best diet in the world (blame vom bug).  Not been doing my supplements very well.

Stats 
43
lots of eggies
lots of life STRESS (agghhh)

Should I leave it to December but that clashes with Xmas?
Do I do a down reg?  I think yes but no time for a November cycle.  Would this change my December dates?
How do I get hols off work, (going abroad)?
How long do I need to plan to be there?

Any thoughts/experience would be awesomeness personified. 
Diesy


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## CHOCOCHINE

Wondered if I can jion you. I am struggling as I had a missed miscarriage early on and am wondering if this is because I am too old. I probably only have 1 more cycle before I am 44 in 4 months. I dont want to waste my money but I dont want to give up either. It would be my parents savings too. I was looking at mild ivf but not sure my clinic do it. I am vegetarian and wondered if not eating fish or meat effects them. Any ideas anyone.


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## Tommi

Chocochine - I just wanted to give you some hope as we are about the same age (I'll be 44 in a few weeks). I'm not sure what made this one stick, but for me I do think it was worth consulting Penny at Serum and having the antibiotics and hysto. I know that protein is important for conceiving but as a veggie you will have ways of making sure that you get enough protein. Interestingly, I'm not veggie, and used to eat a lot of fish, but there is no way I've been able to eat fish since I've been pregnant. In the early days it meant instant sickness. Now I just know to stay away from it. I eat a little meat but other than that I have a veggie diet. It's what bump demands!
Very best of luck  
Txx


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## justineb

Hi, I think proteins are really important, I took about 60g whey protein a day and did a high protein diet before my successful cycle. i also went off fish & eggs with my bfp!...


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## Diesy

Good luck CHOCOCHINE, hope this one goes a bit better...a LOT better!

Does anyone have any advice on mini IVF protocals?  Researching now to get the drugs organised.  Realise hardly anyone is posting at the mo.

OMG Justine, LOOK AT YOUR BOYS!  Belated congratulations!  
Diesy


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## Tommi

Justine - thankfully I can still eat eggs but fish is a definite no go area. It's so odd! Is it a sixth sense thing about pollution or just a strange quirk of pregnancy?!
Txx


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## Tommi

Diesy - won't your clinic give you advice on the protocol? You could try the Create clinics as they specialise in fairly natural, mini IVF protocols I think. I think I was on a short protocol for my IVF but is that different from a mini? It is all so confusing!
Good luck!  
Txx


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## BlinkButton

Hi

Can I ask Justine and Tommy why you went to Serum Greece and what was different about things there? I keep seeing good results and wonder why people go there, and what you went through to make that choice? I cant figure out whether to do one more OE or switch to DE, and if I did OE I'd want to do something different this time. I did have some immune issues picked up, but the response to that was to have 25mg prednisone and now I wonder if this needs exploring further. Any advice on how to explore that issue without committing to flying to greece?

Chocochine - sorry you're facing this difficult decision after some hard knocks, good luck with the next cycle.

xx


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## Tommi

BlinkButton - for me, it was a case of one thing leading to another. After my miscarriage my UK clinic wanted me to do exactly the same thing again cycle-wise but I felt that I should explore every possible underlying cause for the MC beyond age. So I booked a phone consultation with Penny after reading great things about her on here. That happened last November. She then suggested the hidden c test which turned out to be positive so I had the antibiotics before Christmas last year. Then she also suggested a hysto so I flew out there in early January and had that done and cycled with my frostie at my UK clinic asap after that. Had the transfer at the end of March and here I am at 34 weeks and a house full of baby kit! For me, the whole Greek thing was really worth it. My GP oversaw my combined treatment (UK and Greek) and he was very supportive of me consulting Penny. I think that helps a lot if you have a supportive GP.
I think if you are in two minds it's definitely worth having a phone consultation with Penny and taking it one step at a time.
Good luck!
Txx


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## justineb

diesy - hello! how are you?  i was going to do mini ivf with serum but when penny saw my pre-cycle scan and AFC she put me on normal stimms......... carnivaldiva & isobel67 both went to create before going abroad - with me, on normal stimms my right ovary didn't play ball owing to a cyst but i got six eggs from one ovary.......and 2 went to blast - personally i think mini ivf/natural is a way to stretch funds and do more tx as at the end of the day its a numbers game looking for the golden egg.......its also meant to help re egg quality if thats an issue..........i did see something recently about no stimms and clomid in over 40s being cheaper and having a higher success rate

blinkbutton it was similar to tommi's experience for me, i had a mc and  chemical with immune treatment  (for high nk cells and elevated cd56) and with clexane for my clotting issue (antiphospholipid syndrome), my amh was 15 and i had eggs - the embies were good quality and i always had a good number going to blast..so i wondered if something else was going on and i just wanted to investigate everything i possibly could to give the next cycle the best chance (as it was going to be our last). the hidden c test was cheap and i just wanted to see if that was an issue for us,it was and we took antibiotics (penny also recommended anti virals) i also had my thyroid tested  with gp and discovered i had borderline thyroid function and i probably needed thyroxine (penny said i didnt but argc said i did) and penny put me on 10mg pred for the month before i cycled and they gave me iv steroids at egg collection. i also had the greek hysto and took the chinese herbs penny recommends (these are v expensive, but i guess cheap in ivf scheme of things), first telephone consult with penny is free so its worth doing. they also do tandem cycles oe and de at same time, and when i cycled had an offer of two oe for 4000 euro (excl drugs).excuse no caps, typing one handed.

tommi, 34 weeks wow...your little one is probably bigger now than mine were on arrival.....so exciting. have you got your birth plan all sorted?  xx

x


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## Altai

Diesy- I had mild ivf this September with Create. So if u have any q, pls ask or pm me.
Initially they wanted me to do natural but when my scan came, they put me on mild.

Chocochine- I'll be 45 in 6 months and still trying with OE. But I think my last try will be in Jan-feb 14.


Ladies who went to Serum- can I pls ask you about the clinic itself. embryology team in particularly. equipment, does it look modern? What did you like more - Penny or the clinic?  
It just after failed ivf combined
with advanced age, I'm thinking perhaps embryology team/equipment is more important. But I must say that I don't have underlying health issues apart from  age.
From what I could gather- serum is a bit like a family run clinic.

But then I read so many good reviews and there are good results. 
I had a telephone consultation with Penny and going to talk to them on fertility show this w/ end.

Thank you

Best of luck to all


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## Tommi

Altai - Serum is very modern compared with many UK clinics. When I went to the FMC in London it felt very similar - but then the Greek influence is at the FMC too. The hospital where I had my hysto was amazing. Far more modern (and definitely cleaner) than anything I have ever seen in the UK. If I needed to I would go back to Serum for treatment.
Txx


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## Diesy

Altai, thanks, that's great.  Did you do a mild or a mini?  What was your protocol?  If I were you I'd probably not pass go and head straight to Serum.  Just because I think Penny goes the extra mile and leaves no stone unturned to get you there.  It's defo worth a shot.  At this point in our lives we need someone really proactive on our side.  Abroad is a bit cheaper too but that's not why I prefer it, they are just more forward.  

That's really interesting about clomid Justine, although it shags my lining lol.  That's what my clinic have suggested, although I do have a backlog of menopur I'd like to try...but them if clomid is getting more results.  Would defo get something to boost my lining the next time.

Tommi, yeah not long now, I need to get knitting!  I like to hear what everyone else is offered at their clinic to compare and be informed to give myself the best chance.  I've been recommended flare protocol twice, my local clinic and Serum.  Oh I'd love to go to Serum, shame.

Well tonight I've swallowed half the medicine drawer in supplements!  I have maybe 2-3 weeks to get my act together if I go in November.  Darn you Xmas for getting in the way of a December cycle.

I hope you are all having a nice weekend!  I've had a lovely week at work, wow, how often do you hear that?

Diesy xo


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## Altai

Hi ladies,

I went to fertility show yesterday ( going today as well) & spoke to some serum staff & volunteers. 
u r right, I better go there myself & see. Also, much cheaper - makes it even more attractive. 
But this is me exploring my future possible treatments if uk wouldn't work ( God forbids).

I'm starting with Lister this cycle. 

Tommi-good idea. I'll talk to my GP as well. No sure if they would know but worth checking if she could oversee my treatment. 
Diesy - I had mild ivf. I thought mini & mild are the same. Did u mean modified natural ivf? 

For my mild ivf i started with 150u of Gonal  f for 3 days, then 300u another 5 days. 

Have to rush to the show now

Big hugs to all


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## Greyhoundgal

Hi ladies 

Hope you're all well. I've just had my AMH results back at 31.46 pmol/L and I have absolutely no idea what that means. Is it good/bad? Does it tell me about the quality of my eggs? My DP has high numbers abnormal sperm (98%) so we are trying to do everything we can to get that to be better (supplements, diet, no hot baths or cycling) but we've been trying to find out if there is something wrong with me apart from my age (40) so that we can give ourselves the best chance. We've already been advised ICSI is the way to go but does this result mean we have an ok chance or a poor one?

Thanks all - I'm such a worrier and I think of nothing else but conceiving so when I get a bit of info I have to know exactly what it means  

Thanks 
Grey


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## CHOCOCHINE

TOMMI AND EVERYONE ELSE THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT.
I have asked my clinic for my notes and as i can see they have cashed my cheque i would expect them to arrive soon, i will ask penny for a consultation but i am worried as my parents don't want me to go abroad for treatment. I don't live in london but so far for a 2nd opinion than my private clinic in bath i am thinking penny serum, and eIther lister or argc or even create as they have a satillie clinic in bristol.
WHAT DO YOU THINK?
My current consultant wants to up to 450 menopur for last cycle but i am worried that i can really only afford 1 more cycle. i like my local clinic but wonder if i need more tests. at least have them elsewhere see what they say. travelling to a london clinic would be a massive and probably stressful processs if i need a lot of monitoring.


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## CHOCOCHINE

to add i got my notes my amh is 12.2, fsh 7.6, lh 2.1, proclactin 226, tsh 0.73
but this was a year ago
i have no idea what this means


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