# Struggling to get to blast. Any advice please.



## suzymc (Jun 1, 2011)

Hi 
I hope i'm posting in the right section! I'm hoping to find ladies who've had investigations into the same issues as me.
We have had 3 IVF cycles and 2 resulted in a BFN and the last one we didn't get to ET
I am a 'normal' responder and my DH has low motility but good numbers. He hasn't had his DNA fragmentation tested (yet)
There is a trend with our embryos where they do really well up to day 3 and then just don't make it to blast. Out of 14 'good' embryos we've only had 1 fragmented blast.
Has anyone else experienced this and if so is there anything that can be done about it? I've read IMSI can help in this type of situation. My clinic don't do IMSI and won't even try ICSI for us. So we are thinking of changing clinics to keep our options open.
i found this quote online regarding embryo development dropping off after day 3 :" the issue is genetically related and not something to do with the lab. ie egg quality or sperm quality issues. the genetics can not be changed "
is there any truth to this?
We did everything this time round. I was on all the bee stuff, ZW vitamins, organic diet, Q10 etc etc. DH had vitamins for 1 month (best i could persuade him into) and lots of OJ. I had a very bad reaction to Menopur and won't go on it again, which is a problem for SP as an antagonist drug should really be introduced. I had 11 follicles at the start and in a normal cycle that would have given us 10-11 eggs. She only got 3 eggs and none made it to blast. I have read that as menopur contains LH it can reduce egg quality. I am hoping this is the reason for our bad cycle and that this cycle has to be written off and ignored.
I'd love to hear from ladies who have been in the same 'boat' as me. I'm needing as much advice as i can take in.
Many thanks


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## Honor77 (Jan 12, 2011)

Hi suzymc,

Sorry to read about your ttc struggles . 

Our story was slightly different in that our diagnosis was initially MF. So, we did a cycle of ICSI, but were told we had very good chances of getting to blast and even having embyros to freeze. It all sounded very positive! During the course of the cycle, however, it was established that I was a poor responder. I was on Menopur too and didn't feel good on it at all. What I would definitely recommend is looking into other stimming drugs, such as Gonal-F, which I've heard really good things about and am sure can be used on the SP. Had we not been lucky enough to have had a surprise natural BFP in the end, this is something I definitely would have wanted to try out had we been able to cycle again in the future.

As for getting to blast: I'm by far no expert, but I do feel quite strongly that blasts are not necessarily your best bet of getting that BFP. With our cycle, we didn't make it blast (just managed to make it to EC by the skin of our teeth in the end...) and instead had a day 3 and a day 2 embyro put back. From this, we did get a BFP but I sadly went on to have an early miscarriage. 

From what I've heard and read, I firmly believe that regardless how long they're cultivated in the lab for, and so the stage that they reach there, whether or not they're going to implant and stick is very much down to the genetic make-up of the embyro and your body, and a good portion of luck..., and that the best place for your embies is back in their natural environment, i.e. in you!, in soon as possible.

I know others will probably disagree with this because of course lots of couples get to blast and subsequently their BFP, so it's just my personal opinion, and one which I hope will give you some confidence and hope for any future cycles.

Good luck!

xxx


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## suzymc (Jun 1, 2011)

Hi Honor77
many many thanks for your reply. I have actually seen a couple of posts of yours on my FF searching for similar stories. That is such great news about your natural BFP. How fantastic. You give me hope 
Odd you didn't feel good on Menopur too. I had actually started my cycle on Gonal F and then she'd switched to Menopur as it was an Antagonist protocol and she had done 2 antagonist protocols before without actually adding the antagonist drug (odd i know, well odd or bad!). So we had to switch back to Gonal F for the last 2 days but i was already very ill by then
We have had a failed cycle on a 3 day transfer of 2 good 8 cells. I know i can't expect everything to work but i do get blast envy. My current consultant seems very very keen on getting to blast for me as she thinks due to my womb having had a few fibroid ops on it that blast is our only option!
I wasn't convinced so asked for a 3 days and 5 day transfer on this cycle. As it was so disastrous we never got that far and no embryos went back in at all. I am with you in that i do think an embryo is better off in than out but then if they never have any chance of getting to blast then it's a worry if they'll ever manage that in the womb. I am going to get second opinions on everything.
Your whole story gives me confidence
Many thanks. All the best with your growing life 
Suzy x


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## DJCJ (May 24, 2007)

Hi Suzymc
Our diagnosis is also MF; low everything, so all our cycles have been ICSI. For cycles 1-6, I was prescribed Menopur and for Cycles 7 & 8 Gonal F for stimms.  I've always done LP until cycle 8 which was SP. We've only ever had Day 3 transfers,  and since Cycle 3 we have always had Assisted Hatching prior to transfer.  

I do agree with Honor that the best place for embies is back on board, however, as going to Day 5 has never been an option for us, due to fertilization rates and the number of embies left on Day 3, I'm really going more by how lucky we've been.

Best of luck on your next cycle
DJ x


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## suzymc (Jun 1, 2011)

DJCJ  - many congrats on your pregnancy & thanks for your reply. we were originally told MF and then after she had a proper look at my fibroids she blamed me and ended up saying DH was ok & all 3 cycles have been IVF with low motility. anyway i'm now OK & 'broid less and i have been since before cycle #1 so i am either thinking it's rotten bad luck, or bad eggs (but i respond well etc etc), or possible sperm fragmentation. we need to get that tested.
i am going to see someone at Care, Nottingham so hopefully they can pinpoint our issues and what can be done etc to improve our chances. i am thinking of finding a clinic that can offer us IMSI.


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## DJCJ (May 24, 2007)

Hi Suzy

Glad to hear your fibroids have been sorted.  I've read alot of positive things about Care Nottingham, so I'm sure you'll be in good hands there.  IMSI was something we were going to try next, had this cycle not been successful but I hadn't gotten to the point of researching clinics that offered it, so I'm afraid I've no recommendations.  There's a few threads on here about using IMSI so I'm sure you'll be able to get any questions you might have at this stage answered by other ladies.

Best of luck
DJ x


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## suzymc (Jun 1, 2011)

thanks DJ i'll go have a look on some threads. it's certainly something for us to consider.


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