# 'This Morning' Expert on Infertility in older women



## Ann_P (Aug 24, 2007)

*Oh My God!
I've just this moment heard an infertility expert on the 'This Morning' program say that the most heartbreaking thing is when she gets a 45/46 year old woman who's trying to get pregnant. She said it's near enough IMPOSSIBLE to get pregnant at this age. Is that true!!!
I am 44 and have started investigations this year after a M/C just over a year ago. My FSH level is good at 6, and I thought this was the thing that counts rather than age.
I'm shocked & devastated to hear it will be near enough impossible for me to have a baby! 
Anyone got any better news?
Ann*


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## jess p (Sep 25, 2004)

My GP's sister had her 6th child at 46!  If your FSH is fine then of course it's possible!

It's just rare to have such low FSH in your 40s - good luck to you!

Jess xxx


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## Ann_P (Aug 24, 2007)

*Thanks Jess,

You've made me feel better. I hope the expert is wrong. I have been reading the thread called something like "WHATS THE MOST RIDICULOUSLY WRONG THING YOU'VE BEEN TOLD BY A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL" (in peer support). Its quite amazing and has certainly taught me not to believe everything I hear! I can see from your details that you've been told some baloney too.
I have to say hats off to Ruth on 'This Morning'. She did say that older women do have it tough with the fertility question as they are always 'accused' of purposely putting it off for selfish reasons, (i.e. career, money etc.) and she said it wasn't fair as often they just haven't met the right man and are just being responsible in wanting a baby in a good relationship.
GOOD FOR YOU RUTH! THANK YOU!
Good luck Jess, lots of wishes & bubbles to you...

Ann*


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Hi Ann,

The truth is that at your age it will be very rare to have a live birth through ivf.  The majority of women over the age of 44 have babies 'naturally' or maybe through injectible cycles coupled with sex if there are no other issues (and this may take many consecutive cycles of trying).  This is sadly reality and presupposes everything else is fine - e.g. sperm, uterus, hormone levels, no issues like autoimmune, clotting, thyroid, PCOS etc etc.

I would definitely do some testing to rule out some of the above issues if possible.  I would also find out what your E2 level is as well as FSH as the two should be measured together for a meaningful result.  Sadly, a low FSH level, while reassuring is no guarantee of egg quality which does deteriorate as we age.  It does mean you may respond ok to stimms. It does not necessarily mean you have no 'good' eggs left. 

Do you have any idea why you had a m/c?  It is certainly reassuring that you are able to get pg and this is of course a positive thing. 

You may like to look at a really good website called TTC over 40.  It is full of lots of good info. and is run by a woman who had a live birth with own eggs at age 46 using injectibles and sex with DH.  It took her 18 months of trying nearly every month and she had several miscarriages and chemical pregnancies before finally finding success.  She had had several children though in her 20s and 30s.

The bad news is also that a significant majority of women of 44+ who have babies have already had children.

I know this is rather negative info. but I really don't believe in giving false hope and you need to get a move on and also be realistic.  

Daisy
x


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## Ann_P (Aug 24, 2007)

*Hi Daisy,

Thanks for your response. They don't know why I had the M/C as all blood tests so far have come back normal. They did find during scans and x-rays that I have fibroids though, but said these are very common and should not necessarily cause a M/C. They are going to investigate further with a Laparoscopy & Hysteroscopy in a few weeks time. So far all of this has taken a year, no-one has mentioned injectibles or stimms. I take it these are hormone treatments & I would be keen to try them asap. Should I just ask about them when I go for the op? What would I expect to pay for this kind of treatment?
Thanks for your advice Daisy, I really do appreciate it. I do want to be realistic but I'm not prepared to give up just yet especially as I did have a pregnancy just over a year ago, so maybe its not impossible.

Ann*


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Hi Ann,

It is really good that you are having more investigations.  Sadly, fibroids can be the cause of miscarriage and you may want to discuss having them removed with your doctor.

Basicallly, the injectibles are FSH hormones which are used in ivf cycles - you take the same meds as if for an ivf cycle but instead of going through egg collection etc. you trigger ovulation and you and DH have sex that month at the optimum window.  This gives you a better chance than BDing naturually as you are creating more eggs and therefore upping your odds somewhat over releasing a single egg per month.

Of course, if your DH has SA you may want to discuss whether this is an option.  You may also want to discuss ivf as well?  You have been pg before and this is a very good sign, but at your age you need to make each month count and increasing your eggs through stimulating drugs is an option.

It would be best if your were to receive advice on this from a fertility clinic which has good over 40 results (e.g. the Lister, ARGC, UCH etc) as you need a fertility doctor to give you more info.

Try the website mentioned above as Pat has lots of info. for over 40s (trying naturally or through medicated cycles).  There is also lots of support there from women over 40 who are trying to get pg or who are pg and can share their stories to help you.

TTC over 40

I know how difficult it is to be trying and hoping to get pg when time is against us.  That is why I would recommend getting as many investigations as poss. and making sure your fibroids are not contributing to any issues.

Sending very best wishes to you and good luck.

Daisy
xxx


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## jess p (Sep 25, 2004)

Hi,

Sorry, I didn't want to get your hopes up too much (I'd just had my 4th BFN & was trying to be upbeat!!).  The chances of achieving a full term pregnancy are clearly lower, however, it is still not impossible.

FSH levels give some indication of how you will respond to the drugs.  Apparently something called an AMH test will give a better indication of egg quality.

DHEA is believed to help improve the egg quality in women over 40 - not licenced in the UK but can be bought from the US over the internet & your cons can "suggest" this to you - it's about £35.

My clinic had 2 women of 45 having live births last year (& it's only a small clinic).

I've just seen a post from a lady on here called JudithS & she's 43 & preg & she hadn't had children before.

A neighbour of mine had an awful time trying to conceive - had 7 failed ivfs & the cons told her to give up as her womb was riddled with fibroids (she'd had loads of surgery) - amazingly enough at 41 she had a natural BFP & now has a DS!!

I can't wait for a miracle any longer & am going to use donor eggs as my FSH is high & even though we get 100% fertilisation, I've not had a BFP.

Good luck - really hope it works for you!

Love Jess xxx


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## nuala (Jul 13, 2005)

Ann,

I met my DH at 42, married at 43 and tried for a year before seeking help. I had never tried to get pregnant previously and so did not know if I had any problems. I went to the Lister who specialise in over 40's and had 2 rounds of IVF which didn't work.  I started acupuncture during my second cycle and then tried chinese herbs alongside after the IVF.  Within 4 months I was pregnant and gave birth to a perfect baby girl 9 days after my 46th birthday in November last year.

It is not easy to concieve in your 40's but it does happen - so as the darling Dr Tunde (who just passed away) said all we can do is tweak your odds - so tweak your odds and you never know.

Good luck,
Nuala


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## Ann_P (Aug 24, 2007)

Wow! 
Nuala, what a wonderful story! How bizarre that you got pregnant naturally(twice!) after IVF let you down. 
It's strange, & it makes me wonder if the whole fertility issue is far from just black & white facts & figures. Its possibly a world of miracles in which we have barely touched the surface as far as our knowledge goes.
Thank you for giving me some hope & I'm so glad you got your precious bundle in the end!

Ann


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## roze (Mar 20, 2004)

Nuala , congratulations!  The Lister always carried a health warning saying that no one over 45 ever got pregnant using her own eggs by IVF. This will clearly have to be amended!

I gave birth to a lovely little girl when I was 46 years and 3 months albeit by donor eggs. My mother was 46 when she gave birth to me- a natural conception however.  The odds are slim and statistically there are more risks to mother and baby when you do conceive, however I am still convinced that the small sample of women in their 40s is too small to make significant deductions.

My hospital consultant said that quite a few women over 40 got pg naturally but terminated as they had already completed their families and did not want the risks of abnormalities etc so the statistics are not generally well reported.


This ' expert' should look at the abroadies thread where there are many women in their 40s having wonderful babies!


roze


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Roze,

Nuala did not get pregnant through ivf, so proving/enforcing the commonly held opinion that you are more likely to have a live birth over 42 naturally rather than through ivf etc etc

Daisy
x


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## roze (Mar 20, 2004)

Sorry, I misread Nuala's  post.

roze x


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Roze,

Sorry, came across a bit abrupt - apologies..... still it is fantastic that Nuala was successful (even if not at the Lister!) and v. hopeful for many women.

Best to you,

Daisy
x


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## JudithS (Feb 12, 2006)

Ann_P said:


> I've just this moment heard an infertility expert on the 'This Morning' program say that the most heartbreaking thing is when she gets a 45/46 year old woman who's trying to get pregnant. She said it's near enough IMPOSSIBLE to get pregnant at this age. Is that true!!!
> I am 44 and have started investigations this year after a M/C just over a year ago.


Hello, Ann. I also visit a website called Mothers35plus. One member is called June47 -- she conceived naturally at 46 and gave birth at 47 to a healthy baby. She had had a child before -- in her mid/late 30s, I believe. She did have several miscarriages before her second child. You might like to take a look.

I also read a magazine article last year about another British woman who got pregnant at about 46 -- she hadn't even had a period for about a year and assumed she was menopausal.


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## Kitten 41 (Dec 15, 2005)

What a load of tosh!!!  Im 44 and in the third trimester!!  Expert - poop!!!  Follow your heart!!!


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## redcajun (Jul 9, 2007)

Hello Ldies:

I am right in there with you, I am 45 as of September and have great FSH, LH, E2 but still no BFP that has stuck.  I am scheduled to go for IVF in November but I also was thinking like Ann suggested to maybe take the injectable to produce more eggs without the IVF and try it natural. What do you all think?  Has anyone ever did it this way and got a BFP?


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## Jilliano (Dec 24, 2007)

My friend is 46 and has just announced she is 20 weeks pregnant. This was all acheived naturally much to her shock but extreme delight. This is her frirst pregnancy and the doctors told her that as long as she is still having regular periods and also unprotected sex then getting pregnant is possible regardless of age.

Good luck


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## roze (Mar 20, 2004)

However having periods is not necessarily a sign of ovulation nor egg quality. I had wonderfully regular periods but did not ovulate, ie the egg never left the building. The eggs I did have did not produce viable embryos. Successsful pregnancy can indeed happen in your 40's but I'd hate someone to take this a sign that they can wait around for the natural BFP if all the signs are that it is not happening.

Having a child by donor conception is in itself, like adoption, a wonderful thing on a different parallel than a natural conception so its not a second rate option. It brings its own joys and responsibilities, for me its the custodianship of someone elses genes, the most precious thing they can give, paid donor or not.  And then there is the concept that the host can  put her own unique stamp on the embryos characteristics. 

It took a long time for me to realise that and that being fit and healthy did not equate with good fertility. The chances are that my own fertility reduced a long time ago in my 30's but I never noticed. Age then was irrelevant. My only regret is that I pursued success with my own eggs for far too long and perhaps missed out on a few years of motherhood and maybe a few more babies. Don't let the same happen to you.


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## LondonJax (Jan 30, 2006)

Well I'm a Lister IVF over 40 success so experts can be wrong.

Very briefly...

Hubby and I met when I was 39 and married when I was a few months short of my 42nd birthday.  Hubby is 6 years older than me.  After 6 months of TTC we went for tests that showed everything was "normal" for me but hubby was borderline in his sperm test due to a football injury to the groin when he was 17 (ouch) 

Anyway, we went to the Lister just after my 43rd birthday in January 2006, started our first round of IVF (ICSI) in April.  Though I showed all the signs of producing three precious follies none of them carried mature eggs unfortunately.  We thought that was it - donor eggs for us.  However Dr Parekh said she would raise the stimming drugs to the highest level and the down regging to the lowest allowed by law as she thought I may be down regging naturally due to my age.  We had already decided that two attempts would be it for us as we couldn't cope with the roller coaster beyond that and we honestly thought we would just go through the motions.

Again we got just 3 follies but these all contained eggs.  All three of them fertilised by ICSI (they had also discovered that a percentage of hubby's sperm were going in circles just to add to the fun).  All three embryoes were put back ....

The result is currently smothering himself in spag bol in his highchair (hubby's controlling the fun whilst I'm on here)  Ewan (now 8 months old) arrived 3 months after my 44th birthday and is the apple of our eye(s).  

I know we were incredibly lucky - Ewan has a congenital heart problem but it is being managed well and he is thriving.  Whether that condition is related to my age or to IVF or both (or neither) we will never know but either way we would not be without him and we'll cope with the future as it happens.  He's a great little boy, although at 19lbs in weight and 30 inches tall I can't really call him little anymore  

Miracles do happen and Ewan is ours.

Good luck.

Jackie x


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## lucymorgan (Nov 2, 2007)

I wish I had realised how quickly fertility can decline with age.  I really didn't think it would be an issue deferring having kids until later but for me it has been.  I had my DS after 4 months trying when I was 37 then started ttc no 2 when I was 39.  2 years later after 2 m/cs I have had to resort to GIFT.  Luckily I have had a BFP on my 1st go but am apprehensive due to my age and increased risks.

For some women having kids in their 40s is possible but for so many it isn't.  I think we have been given some wrong messages in the media and lots of examples of where its happened.  I really would like to write an article on this as I think so many women have a misconception on this.  One of my friends has just got married shes 37 and said to me she wanted to Wait a year or two before she ttc.  As she isn't a close friend and doesn't know what I've been going through I haven't said anything.  But part of me is wanting to say okay but just be aware that by doing this you could be inceasing the probability you will have problems conceiving.  If she thinks about it she may or may not change her mnd.  But at least shes thought about it.

Lucy xx


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## Heres Hoping (Nov 5, 2007)

Hi
My friend's cousin has just had a baby at the ripe "old" age of 46...she conceived naturally following 3 failed IVF attempts.

I too am horrified at how quickly a woman's fertility declines - we went to an open evening at an IVF clinic last night and got the full biology lesson - scary what you don't realise about your own body!

I got married at 37 and we started ttc straight the way. 2 years and 2 months on we've been told IVF is the best way forward - I'll be 40 in July.

I've done what I consider to be the responsible thing in life i.e find the right man, get married etc etc etc and now I find we're struggling...would I wait if I had my life again? I'm not so sure...

xx


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## Laura68 (Feb 28, 2008)

To Here's Hoping

Your story is the same as mine - I did not meet my wonderful husband until I was in my mid thirties, and we started ttc before we were married.  Three years later, we are still childless.  I feel like I am being punished for being older.  I am 40 this year and feel time is rushing pas me.  Meanwhile, my friend who is also 40 this year got pregnant after 8 months, having been told she may never conceive as her FSH was high.  Life just seems very unfair sometimes - if I could have met DH earlier, I would have done, but what can you do

We went for IVF (King's) last December.  All went well until ET - when we were told all 15 of my embryos were low grade, fragmented.  Only 2 made it to 6 cell, and these grade three.  They were implanted.  Miraculously I  did get pregnant.  One strong heartbeat at 7 weeks, one squiggling bean at 9 weeks, one beautiful babe at 12 weeks - but sadly, huge chromosonal problems and had to have termination at 13 weeks.  Two weeks ago, we lost our dream.  We are truly heartbroken.  Feel again like I'm being punished - my age = crap eggs = sick baby = no children.

I feel very angry and am terrified to try again in case we get pregnant with another sick child, or worse still, I never get pregnant again.

Good luck to all you ladies xx


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## lucymorgan (Nov 2, 2007)

Laura so sorry to hear your news.  Its hard isn't it and so disappointing.  I have had 3 m/cs and it is my age and egg quality.  Yet some women at the same age just pop them out......... I met my DH 8 years ago but thought I could have it all and wait, little did I realise.  But we do have a lovely DS and a woman at work has 2 kids but just suffered irregular periods and has been told if she tried to conceive now it could be difficult.  Shes only 32 so its really lucky she has already had 2 kids.  

its been 5 weeks now and I thought I was on the mend but the last week at work has been a nightmare, as I'm stressed from the m/c I have been operating at 60% of my capacity and feel like my brain is surrounded by a fog.  And I need to operate at a high level and be top performing, but I'm not and its really scaring me.

LucyMxxxxxxx


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## Laura68 (Feb 28, 2008)

Thanks Lucy.  It does help to know there are other ladies out there who are struggling too - I know their strength makes me stronger!  So sorry you have had such a rough time.  It's very hard to just pick yourself up and go back to work as if nothing's happened isn't it?  But life does go on and we should all choose to go with it, it's the right thing to do.  Who knows what the future holds?  But do look after yourself - don't expect too much too soon.  You have to be allowed to accept where you are, to feel low and to take the time to get better.

I wish you all the luck in the world and until then, squeeze your DS tight, like I do with my baby niece.  It makes me feel so much better when she smiles at me, she doesn't know about all the pain!  

I hope 2008 is kind to both of us.

Thanks for replying xx


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## Jo (Mar 22, 2002)

Thinking of all you lovely ladies, and really hope your dreams become reality very soon 

Take care
Love Jo
x x x


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## juliemac (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi Ann

Am almost 44 and have just got BFP.  This was 2nd go at ICSI but we got blasts this time.  1st time I was only 35 and none of my 9 embryos made it.  I drank protein shakes before and during treatment and have been having regular acupuncture.  Don't know if it made a difference but I feel it has helped.

Best wishes

Juliemac


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## Ann_P (Aug 24, 2007)

Wow! JulieMac...Congratulations!   Thats fantastic, well done! That really gives us all hope, see the experts aren't always right...

I'm starting to get impressed by acupuncture, a lot of people seem to be doing well on it. I know it can't make your eggs any younger but it does seem to be doing something. I think I'm going to have to give it a try.

Good luck with everything Julie I hope it all goes well. Do keep in touch & let us know howyou're progressing. Lots of bubbles for ya!

Ann x


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## Happy Mummy (Sep 22, 2006)

congratulations Julie! this is wonderful news. 
Are you having accu with chinese herbs? or is it 5 elements accu? May I ask who is your accu? 
Future Mummy


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## Denlake (Aug 5, 2007)

Hi ladies,

Wanted to come in on this thread as a pregnant oldie (42.5) who met my DP in my late-ish thirties, yes we do have to be realistic about our fertility but I have found the med profession keeps us in check in that dept, they certainly did me anyway at every opportunity. I was told I had less than 5% chance of conceiving with IVF and nearly gave up ( I still keep that letter for posterity even though I do understand their need to give me a reality check) but we managed it following unsuccessful IUI attempts and fluctuating E2 and FSH, though granted I'm not the greatest responder. What I really hopped on to tell you was that a work colleague has just been celebrating the birth of her sister's baby......................at 49   !!!!!!!! Apparently she was thought to be in the menopause as no periods or scant ones so she didn't even do a test until 3 months. She has had a breeze of a pregnancy, no sickness like the ones in her twenties and whilst initially shocked is delighted to be a mum again. She did have 2 children in her late twenties but hasn't even bothered to use contraception since she was 45 due to the fact she was told she was in menopause. Now I know this is an unusual case but it just shows us oldies can defy the stats and she obviously wasn't super fertile as it would have probably happened in the previous 4 years when she wasn't using contraception but she was.......... it seems still producing the odd good egg for this to happen.

I posted earlier about my friends FSH dropping like a stone....................a week for defying stats I think and I do so like to see that happen as it gives us all hope.

So girls sending you loads of   vibes for some good easter eggs in there !

Dee x


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