# A bit of advice please :)



## Mum of 1 at last! (Jun 20, 2011)

Hiya

OK, I've decided to go for another cycle!, my most recent was with Penny in Athens with DE and a BFN - I was convinced it would work with DE but Hey Ho - life goes on!

A couple of queries please:

Penny has recommended that I have the Hidden C test - immediately prior to this cycle - I had (REALLY REALLY REALLY!) bad toothache and was on antibiotics continuously for 5 weeks - Penny seemed to think this was OK to go ahead with the cycle, after reading multiple posts - am I right in thinking that you can just have the antibiotics for hidden C throughout the treatment cycle without going through the tests?

Penny also recommended a hysteroscopy - I have had at least 3 over the last couple of years, two within the last year, the second to last was to find a fibroid that was found during a scan during an IVF cycle - cancelled due to said fibroid, I had a hysteroscopy at the hospital and they couldn't find anything - just a 'thickening of the uterus' which was scraped away and the last hysto was to find the cause of nearly continuous bleeding, then they found the fibroid that had been missed on the last hysto!, I had a D & C - this was about a year ago and Penny seemed to think was OK to continue with the cycle though now she is recomending another one in Greece?, if it was in this country it wouldn't be so much of a  problem, but it causes me major problems for me to spirit myself away for 2 days without anyone knowing due to commitments at home.

I had Fresh donor embryos - 3 x grade 1 blasts on the last cycle which was medicated - progynova, prednisolone, viagra, BA, Clexane, I was expecting transfer to be on approx day 19 of my cycle but I had it before day 14 (cant remember exact day), is this right for a medicated cycle?, my lining was fine - nice and thick - though I have read somewhere that there is only a certain 'window' for implantation??

I was told 1 x 5mg prednisolone daily yet looking back at my notes from previous cycles in UK, I was on 10mg daily?

How many attempts has it taken you with DE or Donor embryos to get a BFP after multiple BFN's?

Does anyone have any info on herpes - coldsore virus - I tend to get a humungous one about once a year!

Sorry for all the questions!

Thanks in anticipation 

Sarah xx


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## Violet66 (Dec 28, 2007)

Hi Sarah 

the more I look into IVF and read about it the more I'm convinced it's just a lottery/numbers game and some get lucky the first time and some get lucky the 10th. Obviously we'd all rather be in the group that get lucky the first time!

I'm about to have my third cycle - this time with full immunes. Prior to my first cycle I spent £8k on fibroid surgery which was supposed to massively increase my chances and it didn't. the second time around i totally overhauled my diet, drinking, lifestyle, took 2 weeks of complete rest - and nothing. I'm firmly of the mind that it works or it doesn't and all the accupuncture, hysteroscopies, vitamins, immunes, water, PMA in the world won't make any difference. 

Not sure how helpful that is to you  - but what I would say is that nobody is more in tune with your body than you are - so if you feel you don't need another hysteroscopy - don't have one. 

I wouldn't worry too much about the drug doses - I'm on 10mg of Prednisolone but some people are on 5 and some are on 25....

also with a drugged cycle - ET is much more controllable - with a natural cycle you have to get it bang on....but as long as your lining was thick then it shouldn't be a problem. 

I'm sorry your last cycle was a failure - i know how painful that is. I wish you luck with your next cycle


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## nvb (May 31, 2008)

Hi Sarah...I'm so sorry that you got another BFN. It just sucks    I think we are 'sold' donor eggs as the Golden Ticket when realistically there is a lot of just luck involved. My last cycle I got a BFP but suffered a MMC. This was attributed to my DP's TESE sperm (only had 1 egg out of 8 mature fertilised) so this cycle we used DS as well. We got 6 mature eggs, 4 fertilised so we had 2 put back and the other 2 were good enough to freeze. This cycle was with a different donor but I found her on the clinics website and she got a BFN    with no embryos to freeze either. I don't think it matters what CD you are on for ET as the drugs have ensured your body is at the right stage to accept the embryo. Just to add.....I also suffer with cold sores and strangely enough I got one in the 2WW    I hadn't had one for about a year so I did worry that my immune system was being fired up. However, it didn't stop me getting a BFP.
Also I tested early with this cycle and thought it hadn't worked so I stopped taking the pessaries and estrogen, went back to the gym (running and spinning!) enjoyed a few glasses of red wine, painted my dining room.....   so I agree with Violet....if it's going to work then it will. 
I really wish you lots of luck for your next cycle. I did look at going abroad when I thought this cycle had failed....but the logistics of it all just looked a total nightmare. I did look at the Dogus clinic in Northern Cyprus which has excellent results if you decide to try another clinic xxxxx


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## Helen3 (Dec 2, 2010)

Hi Sarah,
I am no expert but I would say that although luck has a part to play in all this, I don't think it is the only factor otherwise why would we bother with IVF in the first place, or ever use medication? Also, if you read enough posts you can see that many people only had a BFP once they had changed something(s), although ofcourse there are no guarantees. The problem is, what do you need to change?!? Fertility treatments and diagnoses are a minefield, which is compounded by lack of quality research or lack of consistent research findings, which is reflected by a huge range of conflicting medical expert opinions....mmmh, not easy is it?!

I would suggest you have a good read of Agates faqs if you haven't done so already. There is a section on treating empirically (ie. without testing first) under E. I can't see why you couldn't have the antibiotics for hidden C without the test if a consultant was prepared to prescribe them for you (eg Dr Gorgy, London, maybe?). However, the test costs about £200 & personally I'd rather not take anitobiotics unless needed (I did this test & fortunately was negative). You'd also need to pay for a consult (approx £250 from memory??)
I also do not agree with the comments that medication dose levels don't matter. 5mg prednisolone is a very low dose as I understand. My consultant put me on 25mg after finding that my NK killer cells were high. A significant amount of research does show that dose level of most drugs will affect outcomes.

Good luck & keep reading


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## Cailin (Apr 18, 2008)

Hi Sarah,

I think I'd agree with Helen's way of thinking. I mean to some degree I believe that if its going to work, its going to work - but only with regard to your day to day activities. Eg if you exercise, thats not going to make a difference, or not rest (some people take the whole 2ww off work). I think your body is built to protect little embies so there is not much we can do to damage or make them stick.

However on the medical, clinical side of things I strongly believe it does make a difference as to what you decide to do. Its okay to say its a numbers game but at some point, when the numbers are going against you, it time to start thinking outside the box. The reality is that IVF will work for MOST people in about 3 goes. If you are older and have been doing OEIVF then your chances are decreased. If you move to DEIVF, you have to start counting again from the 1st go, if that makes sense? If I had just put it down to a numbers game then I believe I would still be trying. I strongly believe that changing the meds & introducing new ones, ie LIT, Valtrex, Intralipids & LIT, made a difference for me. As for hysteroscopies, I've had 2 - one here in the UAE and 1 in Greece. Here they found nothing but in Greece they did, plus they give you the implantation marks which are supposed to help. I got pregnant after my hysteroscopy in Greece... Its just  something you will  have to decide...

steroids - 5mg is a starter dose, think its what alot of clinics will give people but if you have immune issues then its usually around the 20/25mg dosage.

Regarding Valtrex, I took it this cycle but I don't have a history of coldsores or herpes. It was more of a catch all approach. There are so many things that we cannot know about in our bodies that I believe its worth trying...

Hidden C - I've had the test and it was negative so not everyone tests positive. If you do the test then you might not have to take the antibiotics but Penny has always recommended a course of antibiotics for me on each cycle, but they are not the same course as what you take for the positive C test. Also, if you do the test directly through serum you dont need to pay for a consult, just the 200 Euro to the lab. Penny then will write you the prescription which you can get filled at some of the pharmacies that deliver (you would need to check with someone in the UK but I think its called Rigcharm). 

As you know, alot of the decisions we make are based on instinct as we are not trained in this area (only on the job training    ) so to an extent you have to go with your gut. I always ask myself, if I get a BFN will I regret x, y, z and that usually helps me. Obviously we can help ourselves by asking questions and reading as much as we can (have you read Agates FAQ?). I will say though that I think you have made a great choice with Serum and the level of care and their approach is truely superb. 

HTH and wishing you loads of luck with your next cycle   

Cailin xx


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