# How many attempts of DE/IVF should I do before calling it a day?



## Lynn E (Aug 7, 2008)

Hi ladies,

I wanted to ask this question to get some kind of view on how many attempts of DE/IVF treatment should I undergo before calling it a day.  I understand women over 40  (any age) are far more successful in getting pregnant using donor eggs at least 53%, so I'm told. 

I would like to know how many attempts have you had before getting your 1st BFP, leading to a live birth. If you had several attempts trying using donor eggs what did you do differently each course of treatment before becoming pregnant. Were you able to take more control each time you were treated? If, so what did you do?  Also what advice would give me and other women attempting their next course of treatment, using donor eggs.  

I am very interested in your views.

Lynn E


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## Nadine1 (Aug 5, 2009)

Hi Lynn

I too am 41 and have recently gone down the DE route. After TTC naturally for 7 months we decided to give IVF a go but on the one cycle we did, we got 6 eggs but none fertilised and the clinic felt it was an issue with egg quality.

I decided to go straight into DE and had our first cycle last month at IM in Barcelona. Despite having 2 top grade embies transferred, it was a BFN so we're going to try again with the 4 frosties we still have there. 

Basically, my chances with my own eggs were around 5% but with DE this increased to around 60% and whilst I know it was a BFN this time, they estimate that over 3 cycles your chances rise to around 90%. I think therefore I will give it 3 fresh cycles and however many frozen cycles we also have and then if it's not happened I will call it a day. It is all a numbers game to be honest but DE does give you much better odds.

A number of the clinics offer refund programmes - at IM you can pay around 30,000E for up to 3 fresh cycles and the frozen ones too and if you're not succesful you get about 70% of the money back so it's worth looking at.

Nadine


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## Lynn E (Aug 7, 2008)

Hi there Nadine, 

Thanks for your comments that what I thought about 3 cycles must women tend to get positive pregnancy. I do think fresh DE increases success rate even though I'm aware that some women get pregnant using frozen embryos. I know alot of clinics offer money back schemes but after paying a whooping £29K on series of fertility privately I am not to sure if I want to part with more money like that again, but not a bad idea.  

How are you doing when is your next course of treatment?

Lynn E


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## Danni (Aug 25, 2004)

hi Lynne
I had 3 attempts at DE before i got a "take home " baby
1st attempt-BFN-I have a suspicion it was my lining cos I had cramps before transfer and my lining shrunk from 11mm to8mm but i was assured its still in normal range. Wrong. it was a day 3 transfer

2. My second attempt everything went textbook and decided to make changes and have a blast (day 6) transfer with a 26yr olds eggs. It was an early m/c at 5w. i had 3 textbook perfect blasts transfered.
I decided there must be something else going on
3. my 3rd attempt.
  I had a hysteroscopy-it was normal
  then I had immunetesting and found Ihad activated NKcells. It ws 5yrs ago and I did not really had much believe in immunetests but felt I just had to try something else before throwing in the towel.
i had treatment under the controversial Dr Beer(RIP) with immunoglobulin before and after having Day 6 blast (again 3!) transferred. It resulted in a singleton pregnancy-she will be 5 soon
Many women have had 4 or 5 De treatments without treatment and were successful even without any additional testing.

I dont know when I would have given up to be honest but I felt I just had to do everything possible before calling it a day. Ivf is really an expensive lottery, a road full of hiccups and there are a tiny minority striking it lucky first or even second time. what is your clinic suggesting? Mine was not very helpful in that respect, just said"keep trying" i had to do most of the research myself 
Im sorry you are having to go through all of this but hope you find answers, sometimes its just bad luck


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## Lynn E (Aug 7, 2008)

Hi there Danni,

A very big thank you for you comments. This the stage I am at the moment.. You are very fortunate to be treated by Dr Alan Beer, I am currently reading his book Is Your Body - Baby Friendly, it makes a very interesting read.  And congratulations on being a mum. I was tested for the NKcells some time ago and it came back negative.  What are other immune testing did you undertake?  Is there anywhere in London where I could have the test done, if so, how much would it cost? Or how much did it cost you?  I am doing loads of researching searching the internet and talking to Dr's/Consultants for advice. 

At the moment I have been advised to have a hysteroscopy, to assess the lining of my womb and that's it, so that's why I am busy researching as there must be a reason behind infertility.  Thanks again.
Lynn E


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## Nadine1 (Aug 5, 2009)

Hi Lynn,

We didn't do the refund programme ourselves although I do think it's a great idea but it is just so much money isn't it?!

I did have a natural pregnancy just after I turned 40 last year but sadly we discovered at 24 weeks that the baby had a severe brain underdevelopment and so it wasn't to be. I hoped that as I had been pregnant before then I'd do ok with DE but as I said before, in this game nothings guaranteed. I am staying positive however!

We only got our BFN last week so am trying to decide whether to try go for the FET before Christmas or just simply having a relax ( and the odd drink) and waiting til January. 

How did you find tx in SA? Where did you go? What are they suggesting next?


Nadine x


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## Lynn E (Aug 7, 2008)

Hi there Nadine,

I checked today and found out I could have the test done in no of London clinic and it cost about £750/800 a pop,mmm, expensive but worth it.

I found the treatments in SA excellent and I would go again, have a look at the SA on FF.

Thanks for your comments.

Lynn E


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## Violet66 (Dec 28, 2007)

Hi Lynn 

I've just had my first unsuccessful DE IVF. Before I started treatment I decided i would have two attempts and no more as I didn't want it to become an obsession plus, as a single person, i can't afford endless treatment. 

So I'll have one more go some time next year and if that doesn't work then I'll call it a day. I never tried to get pregnant with my own eggs as the odds were so low. 

I'd be interested to know which London clinic offers the immune testing for £750/£800? It's a lot of money but quite a bit cheaper than other prices I've seen which average about £1200.


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## Lynn E (Aug 7, 2008)

Hi there Volier,

I undertstand the Assisted Reproduction and Gynaecology Centre (ARGC) are able to offer this service, however they don't do a comprehensive testing system. What clinic were your refering to that you have to pay £1,200. I would be interested to know.

So you Violet you are hoping to have another go, did you find out from your clinic why it did not work the first time to help you  be more prepared for the next treatment.  
Lynn E


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## Violet66 (Dec 28, 2007)

Lynn, I was talking about Dr Gorgy who I think was at the ARGC but now has his own clinic. I understand that full profile testing with him is £1200 

My clinic (I used Serum in Athens) weren't able to give me a reason why it didn't work. I had undergone surgery to remove fibroids, my donor was 24 and I'm fit and healthy so I should have been a good candidate. Unfortunately no cycle is ever 100%. I was told i had a 70% chance of it working, which is still pretty high. However I was just unlucky and fell into the category for the 30% for whom it doesn't work. I really don't think there was a definitive reason. 

I will probably have one more shot in about 3 or 4 months time and, if unsuccessful, will draw a line under it.


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## Lynn E (Aug 7, 2008)

Thanks Violet. Good luck with your next round of treatment, i might be joining you.

Lynn E


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## Dell Boy (Aug 6, 2008)

Hi, Everyone on this thread

I read with interest your views, may i add that we have ust gone down the de route and got a positive response however d/w started bleeding one day later and although they confirmed we were pregnant a week later a hcg test discovered we lost the pregnancy a week later, like yourselves we have spend close to £25k on this and its starting to hurt, will go for one more try with  de and hopefully get some frosties in the bag but what makes it worse for me is that one girl in the office has just announced she is three months pregnaant and another chap wife is due to give birth at the same time, out of an office of five of us that is a little hard to bear,

Dell Boy


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## Lynn E (Aug 7, 2008)

Hi there Dell Boy, It's hard isn't it but hold in there. I am at the stage where me and DH and are looking for some answers. I think the medical profession have been a bit lapse with us, so we have decided to give it one last go using donors eggs and call it a day after 12 years of trying. wish you and your wife the best. Lynn


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## Orange Smartie (Dec 30, 2007)

Hello

It took us three cycles od DEIVF to get a BFP and a take home baby.

My first cycle was in the UK and I felt very out of control. The embryos were grade 2 and I didn't really hold out much hope. 

Our second cycle was in Europe and I found that I had far more say in my protocol and could also choose the number of embryos transferred as well as what stage to transfer. I had three grade 1 blastocysts transferred but also got a BFN again. I was expecting it as I had some flu like symptoms within a day or so of transfer and skin rashes. I'd been on a low dose of steriod for that cycle and after a lot of discussion with the clinic's doctor and my own specialist here in the UK, we did some basic immune testing and found an issue.  I'd suspected something anyway and also read Dr Beers book. It wasn't a surprise and so I convinced DH to try another cycle with an immune protocol.

So for my last cycle we went for it in terms of protocol and I took higher dose steriods, blood thinners, high dose folic acid, viagra.... I again had three blastocysts grade 1 transferred and felt very different almost straight away. The night of transfer I had some cramps, never experienced anything like that in previous cycles and just knew this one had worked.  Our gorgeous son was born four weeks ago.

I've had five cycles in total (2 with my own eggs) and found I got more and more knowledge along the way so by the last cycle I was adamant about what I wanted and was prepared to argue for it - thankfully it never got to that stage as the doctors around me have been wonderfully supportive.  

Good luck for the next cycle.

xxx


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## Violet66 (Dec 28, 2007)

yogaprincess - can I ask where you went for your successful cycle? I'm looking at clinics at the moment and would welcome some recommendations.


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## Orange Smartie (Dec 30, 2007)

Hi 

I went to Reprofit in the Cz Republic. Let me know if you want any more info...

xxx


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## Violet66 (Dec 28, 2007)

ahh ok  - I did look at them originally but found them a bit chaotic so rules it out. i do hear good things about them though.


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## mousey (Oct 18, 2008)

I am so glad I found this thread - I was just about to start one up asking the same question. 
I have had 4 attempts with my own eggs and two fresh and one frozen with DE . I had a BFN with the first DE , biochemical with FET (both from first time 21 year old donor who didnt get pregnant either ) , BFP with 2nd fresh DE cycle with proven donor who was 31 . Originally it was a twin pregnancy but I bled from early on and lurched from scan to scan , bleed to bleed and sadly when we had our latest scan at 9+4 weeks the babys heart had stopped . I have recently had and ERPC so it is very early days for me . This was going to be our last cycle but I am not sure that I can let go having got to 9 weeks - I think I will always look back and wonder what if I had tried one more time . I think if it had been a BFN I could have stopped . After 7 cycles I am finding it hard to cope with the 'just one of those things ''numbers game' explanations ,although i know it is most probably true . It is all part of the grieving process I suppose .
I was immune tested as routine at ARGC when I was having a cycle there . I came back as having raised NK cells but having read a huge amount around the subject and talked to numerous drs about it there doesnt seem to be a consensus . My clinic doesnt really believe in the immune stuff so I have never really pursued it but they are happy for you to run treatment alongside them . We need to go back and see our Dr  and to discuss whether it is worth us doing another cycle . If he thinks it is then I will def go for the immune stuff .I cant bear to even think about how much all this has cost us , added to all that all the acupuncture , counselling , every single alternative therapy to try and support it all . 

Del Boy - I was sorry to hear your news - from what I remember from the other threads you are at the same clinic as me and I think got a BFP around the same time as me . It is so difficult at work when the announcements happen - the people I work with seem to get younger and younger (as I get older and older ) and there seems to an announcement every week -  to you and your DW. 

Good Luck to everyone - it is such a hard road to travel . 

M x


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## Empty2 (Aug 12, 2006)

Hi,

Just popped in to give you some positive news after 12yrs and 11 IVF cycles, 8 with DE we are at last a family!
I also found it hard to call it a day, you get so close but so far.

We had be advised to possibly try surrogacy as I kept miscarrying early on (4 times) a wonderful friend offered and to get the best chance we both did the IVF treatment with DE and both got pregnant!  She carried my three beautiful baby girls and I carried our baby boy ( I gave birth at 42) all were born within a month of each other.  They are all now just over a year old.

Our cycle was at Intersono in Lviv, Ukraine and I fully recommend the clinic.  The only things different on this cycle was that I had just gone back onto thyroxine (slightly underactive thyroid) which wasn't picked up even being under a Specialist    and I also took clexane.  I had alway worried that I was at fault with the miscarriages and when the cycle hadn't worked at all but to go up eighty steps to our appartment and fly on 2 planes home proves it isn't our fault when it all goes wrong. 

Wanted to wish you all well    

emps
x


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## Lynn E (Aug 7, 2008)

Emps what a lovely story, I bet you must so happy being mum of 4. Thanks for sharing your experience with us . Lynn E


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## vw22 (Jul 27, 2009)

Hi everyone, well done lynn for starting such an amazing thread...I have seriously found it heard to find anyone that has done more than 3 donor rounds so this has given me hope I am not the only one going through this!

Thank you to all of you for posting your comments...theres not many but the information means alot!

You can see my history, its been IUI's and IVFs before moving on to donor eggs. Luckily I am based near the clinic in Spain so I can do the tries in natural cycles (no drugs) and if it hasn't worked, I have been able to move on to frosties if there are any, the next month...

So I am just waiting for the results of my 3rd donor try (not including the FETs in between)...but I am already planning to go to Dr Gorgy as I just don't see why this one should work and all the others not! I have been putting off seeing him up til now. I really don't want to do the whole immunes thing but feel I have to do it as a last resort.

The doctors are now genuinely perplexed why nothing is working. 

Not sure which way you have decided to go Lynn, but good luck and I will update here if there is any good news!

V


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