# 4 failed transfers...what to do next?



## Carrie88 (Aug 2, 2015)

4th transfer failed. 
Where to go from here? 

29 
No fertility issues - just doing pgd to prevent a genetic condition. 
Transferred 3BC 4AA 5BC 5AB 5AB 
2 hysterscopys 
1 saline sonogram 
Full immune testing - high NKC cane back but not overly high 
Added intralipids, steroids, aspirin, fragmin. 

ERA? Hidden C test? 

I'd be so grateful if anyone could help, I feel so scared right now xx


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## K jade (Aug 11, 2013)

Massive (((((hugs)))))) Carrie. 
I know this feeling all too well. Failed treatment is awful, especially when u are doing it with no Fertility issues of your own. It leaves u lost and confused 

I would definitely recommend the hidden infection tests. In fact I'm sending mine off  this morning. Relatively 'cheap' in ivf terms at £300. From what I understand some infections make the uterine environment hostile to embies. A course of antibiotics can clear this up

Did u have a scratch with your cycles? Sometimes that can make all the difference 

Were your nk cells retested before transfer? It may be that a stronger drug like humira is required to bring them under control. 
These are just my thoughts and I'm also a bfn lady feeling my way, so hopefully others will be along soon to offer their expertise.. 
Kj
Xx


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## Northern (Sep 26, 2015)

Another 4-failures-lady here, so sorry Carrie that you're going through this, it sucks doesn't it. I think maybe era test might be a good option for you if you can fund it, I think up to 20ish% of transfers are at the wrong time in the cycle. Also I agree with Kjade  the scratch is meant to help with implantation and is a relatively cheap add on.

Kjade I think we're very much on the same page, I've just this week done the hidden C test - came back all clear which I'm a little disappointed about, I was hoping that was the answer! 

Good luck to both of you xx


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## Carrie88 (Aug 2, 2015)

Thanks ladies. I'm so sad you're going through this too but I also feel less alone as well knowing you girls know how I'm feeling. 

I thought about the scratch but didn't know if it was beneficial due to high NKC in my womb? 

I've emailed locus Medicus this morning, did you go via them or serum? 
Did you send your hubby's sperm off as well?
What did you tell the post office the package was lol? Xx


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## K jade (Aug 11, 2013)

Oh northern bless u. U know your living  in an upside down world when your dissapointed at a negative chlamydia result! The more I'm learning about this ivf journey the more I'm wandering if it really is just a numbers game,like throwing spaghetti at the wall until it sticks! 

Carrie you go through serum. Google serum hidden infection tests and it'll bring up the page. It's very user friendly with clear instructions. Just menstrual blood, I don't think u send semem sample 
I've just come back from the post office, I told the very inquisitive officer it was a gift of jewellery. She then asked what value, to which I replied  "very cheap! "
Others may correct me but I think a scratch still can be beneficial as it can rejuvenate the cells, so still an option for u to explore... 
No u are definatly not alone
Xx


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## Aley (Dec 13, 2016)

Carrie, I am so sorry you go through this. Implantation failure is scary and leaves you with too many questions. 
I don't have an answer myself but I can tell you what I've done and what I plan to do next. 

After my 2nd failed cycle I had a scratch, day 21 of the previous cycle. I also had embryo glue. As the girls say it's cheap and I've read so many studies saying it can help implantation. I had 2 blastocysts transfered afterwards but that cycle failed as well. 
I had an aqua scan prior to my first cycle and I didn't do anything different between my first and my second cycle. 

I am now at the point where I am cropping a plan for my next IVF, whenever that will be.

First I am moving clinics as I think a new approach is needed. I will ask about ERA test, hysteroscopy and immune testing. 
I can see you already had immunes and hysteroscopy. 
I had previous chlamydia testing, both swabs and urine but never the menstrual blood one, probably worth doing. 
Meanwhile I am still researching everything and I guess keep going. 
You're definitely not alone, we're all here for you, as kjade said all the bfn ladies, we're good at supporting each other.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mattysmrs (Jul 7, 2013)

Hey lovely. Do u have a follow up appointment with guys? Would they be able to give u advice? Or book a consultation with mr N? What capacity did u see him for, was it just immunes or specifically for recurrent implantation failure? Thinking of you and DH today xx


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## Northern (Sep 26, 2015)

Carrie you can also go straight to Locus Medicus for hidden C, I found them very helpful and efficient. Just email [email protected] 

Haha Kjade I said it was a gift of a jigsaw! If the post office made a list of all the strange things people send to them I'm sure they'd get a bit suspicious! 
X


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## K jade (Aug 11, 2013)

Northern that made me chuckle!! And a jigsaw lol!  
She did seem to study  the address for some time before slapping the sticker on. Her mind was obviously ticking away there thinking where have I seen this before 

Carrie as well as hidden C there is also another test serum offer and u can use the same sample. It checks for several viruses linked to implantation failure including ureplasma and a number of others I can't remember the names of. Ecoli was maybe even one of them.  It's £200 more but I thought if I'm going to the effort of jaring up my menstural blood I may as well go the whole hog and get them all done! 

Kjxx


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## Baking Queen (Jul 7, 2014)

Hi Carrie
You said you had slightly raised NK cells - what treatment did you have for them? My levels were only slightly above what they should be and I was prescribed Humira. Unfortunately I was allergic to Humira so couldn't complete the course and had to look at natural ways to reduce my TNF - I used Resveratrol, Omega 3 and green tea. I also had steroids, intralipids, Clexane and had a scratch. This was my 10th cycle and I believe it was the immunes protocol that made the difference. I'd been treated empirically before but never had such high doses of steroids. 
Hope that helps. Please feel free to ask any questions.
Good luck.
BQ. xx


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## Carrie88 (Aug 2, 2015)

Baking Queen said:


> Hi Carrie
> You said you had slightly raised NK cells - what treatment did you have for them? My levels were only slightly above what they should be and I was prescribed Humira. Unfortunately I was allergic to Humira so couldn't complete the course and had to look at natural ways to reduce my TNF - I used Resveratrol, Omega 3 and green tea. I also had steroids, intralipids, Clexane and had a scratch. This was my 10th cycle and I believe it was the immunes protocol that made the difference. I'd been treated empirically before but never had such high doses of steroids.
> Hope that helps. Please feel free to ask any questions.
> Good luck.
> BQ. xx


Hi BQ,

Thanks for replying 

I had intralipids 1 week before ET and 1 in the 2ww
I had 20mg of steroids (pred) from when I started 
And fragmin and baby aspirin this time as well xx


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## Carrie88 (Aug 2, 2015)

Northern said:


> Carrie you can also go straight to Locus Medicus for hidden C, I found them very helpful and efficient. Just email [email protected]
> 
> Haha Kjade I said it was a gift of a jigsaw! If the post office made a list of all the strange things people send to them I'm sure they'd get a bit suspicious!
> X


Yes I've emailed them 
Hahahaha a gift of a jigsaw? That's made me laugh lol. If all the post office workers ever recognised the address and all the different 'things' people send to it they'll be like what the hell? Xx


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## Carrie88 (Aug 2, 2015)

K jade said:


> Northern that made me chuckle!! And a jigsaw lol!
> She did seem to study the address for some time before slapping the sticker on. Her mind was obviously ticking away there thinking where have I seen this before
> 
> Carrie as well as hidden C there is also another test serum offer and u can use the same sample. It checks for several viruses linked to implantation failure including ureplasma and a number of others I can't remember the names of. Ecoli was maybe even one of them. It's £200 more but I thought if I'm going to the effort of jaring up my menstural blood I may as well go the whole hog and get them all done!
> ...


Hi kj,

Is it these?

http://www.locus-medicus.gr/index.php/en/menstrualtestsleftmenuitem

http://www.locus-medicus.gr/index.php/en/menstrual-tissue-testing-the-hidden-c-test


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## Carrie88 (Aug 2, 2015)

K jade said:


> Oh northern bless u. U know your living in an upside down world when your dissapointed at a negative chlamydia result! The more I'm learning about this ivf journey the more I'm wandering if it really is just a numbers game,like throwing spaghetti at the wall until it sticks!
> 
> Carrie you go through serum. Google serum hidden infection tests and it'll bring up the page. It's very user friendly with clear instructions. Just menstrual blood, I don't think u send semem sample
> I've just come back from the post office, I told the very inquisitive officer it was a gift of jewellery. She then asked what value, to which I replied "very cheap! "
> ...


Hahaha yes you're know you're living in a downside world when you're disappointed in a negative clap test. 
I hope the test gives you some answers, when will they be due back? Xx


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## Carrie88 (Aug 2, 2015)

Aley said:


> Carrie, I am so sorry you go through this. Implantation failure is scary and leaves you with too many questions.
> I don't have an answer myself but I can tell you what I've done and what I plan to do next.
> 
> After my 2nd failed cycle I had a scratch, day 21 of the previous cycle. I also had embryo glue. As the girls say it's cheap and I've read so many studies saying it can help implantation. I had 2 blastocysts transfered afterwards but that cycle failed as well.
> ...


Hey Aley,

You've hit the nail on the head, I just feel so scared it's now never going to work and I'm not even 30 yet. 
I think your plan sounds good and sounds like you can hopefully eliminate a few things. 
I would defo look into the Greece test. 
Do you know when you're starting up again? Xx


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## Carrie88 (Aug 2, 2015)

mattysmrs said:


> Hey lovely. Do u have a follow up appointment with guys? Would they be able to give u advice? Or book a consultation with mr N? What capacity did u see him for, was it just immunes or specifically for recurrent implantation failure? Thinking of you and DH today xx


Hey chick

Not yet I'll get that next week from guys but cos they're NHS I'm really not sure what else they can do :/ 
I've emailed Dr N this morning but no reply yet (I don't mind it is Saturday) but I wanna know if it's safe to stop the steroids cold turkey. 
It was for recurrent implantation failure, im now wondering though if I should move to dr George or dr Gorgy in London? Xx


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## K jade (Aug 11, 2013)

Hi Carrie, no i went through serum. I'm not sure how to post the link as on my phone but if you Google 'Serum hidden infection tests' it should take u straight to the page.


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## Baking Queen (Jul 7, 2014)

Hi Carrie
That's a good level of steroids so it should dampen down any NK activity although I was on 25mg. Where did you have your immunes testing done? My old clinic used to say they did it but in reality they didn't know what they were doing. I went to a clinic in Epsom for my immunes - Google miscarriage and Epsom and it should come up. The dr that treated me doesn't like to be talked about on here so his name is always blanked out. It's so hard to keep going and our last round was going to be our last try as we were all out of ideas. If you've always been with the same clinic, it's worth getting another one to cast another pair of eyes over your case. 
Feel free to PM me if you need any more details.
BQ. xx


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## Carrie88 (Aug 2, 2015)

Hi BQ,

We had it done at RHG in Warrington and our tests got sent to Chicago. I have the paperwork and they defo got sent there  
I'm now worried as I don't have enough pred to wean off it so need to get more of that.

I think I'm going to get in touch with Dr Gorgy and see what he thinks. He may say it's just bad luck and my protocol is fine but it's worth getting a second opinion, thanks Hun xx


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## mylittlepincushion (Jul 10, 2016)

Carrie,

My previous comment on the other board, that you are doing all you can, was probably not helpful as I can relate to wanting to do more tests and understand what's going on. Those four remaining embryos are too precious.

There are a few other things on this thread that ladies have suggested (LIT, hydrosaplinx, ...)

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=347532.0

I've no experience in this so sorry if it's unhelpful. I'm just feeling for you and DH today.

Massive hugs 
xx

HTH, massive hugs to you and DH xx


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## Carrie88 (Aug 2, 2015)

mylittlepincushion said:


> Carrie,
> 
> My previous comment on the other board, that you are doing all you can, was probably not helpful as I can relate to wanting to do more tests and understand what's going on. Those four remaining embryos are too precious.
> 
> ...


Hey Hun,

Thanks for your message xx

I'm going to read that thread now and see if there's any more ideas xx


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