# INSENSITIVE HOSPITAL STAFF



## chrissier (Mar 16, 2005)

Dear All

I shall be shortly writing an account of my experiences during and following the birth of my twins.  It will no doubt shock most of you when you read of the appalling treatment I received whilst in hospital and of all the blunders that occurred.  However, that's for later when I'm feeling a bit stronger.  In the meantime I just wondered if any of you have received insensitive remarks from hospital staff regarding the donor conception.

During my caesarian section, just as my first born, Jacob was being lifted from my body, the consultant asked me, and I quote 'are these babies from your own eggs or a donors?'.  I cannot think, for the life of me what relevance such a question could have at such a moment.  I am not in denial about the origins of my babies but it seemed incredibly crass of him to ask that question as I was giving birth and if front of a theatre full of hospital staff.  My husband was shocked as well.

On another occasion, I was in my hospital room feeding the babies when a midwife asked me completely out of the blue 'what nationality was the mother?'  I had to do a double take and felt confused and emotional and didn't know what to say.  After all I had been through carrying the twins, nearly dying as a result of a dvt that was only discovered because I went back to the hospital 3 times insisting something was wrong whilst being fobbed off and almost laughed at as being neurotic!  I think I have earned the right to be considered their mother and whilst I shall be eternally grateful to the egg donor, that is what she is, an egg donor and NOT their mother.  

I feel extremely angry now about the above and intend to write a strong letter of complaint to the hospital management.  I shall also be writing to the press about other matters (which will appall you all when I finally get my act together and get it all written down).

I would be interested to know if any of you other new mums have experienced anything like the above.

Love Chrissie


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

awwwwwwww Chrissie hun

So sorry you have had to go through those things  the only thing I can think of was it was on yr notes and they are being just plain nosey!!!!

good for you girl for complaining!!! I have had so many bad incidents with the NHS, if I could get away with never having to use them I would!!! that said, I have always found the staff at A&E fantastic and would never ever knock the wonderful job they do there!!

Good luck sweetie and enjoy your little ones  

Debs
xxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## earthe kitt (May 7, 2005)

Chrissie - I'm sorry that I find that degree of insensitivity par for the course within the medical and nursing professions (I am a Registered Nurse BTW but happily not worked as a Registered Nurse for over 15 years) - of course my response would be that the mother is English but I am one of those people who olny find the right answer about 3 days later.

I think the message I'm getting here is to tell the hospitals as little as possible about the circumstances of our childs conception - just that they are IVF babies essentially - and yes, isn't it great that I'm still producing eggs at 63  

Why is it that the conception of our children is so important, do they ask "fertile" couples if their children were conceived in the bedroom, bathroom or shed.

It all makes me so mad    

Love Jo  XXXXXXXX


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## CRISPY (Mar 19, 2005)

Hi Chrissie

So sorry to hear your news, this type of behaivour from a member of the medical / nursing team treating you is totally offensive and unacceptable and I am so sorry that they have upset you at what should be a very happy time.  Thank goodness you and the babies are well and at home.  I am on a donor cycle at the mo (I am also a RGN!) and I find such ignorance very disheartening.

Take care of yourself and the babies and don't let the swines get you down

Crispy


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## Womb with a View (Dec 7, 2004)

Dear Chrissie, I am simply appalled by your experience.  I can't for the life of me imagine why someone would ask such inapt questions at such an insensitive time.  As Jo said, for the rest of us it has taught us something valuable - not to disclose this info, but I am so sorry it's been at your expense.  Such ignorance.  

You have been through so much, I hope you manage to reserve some energy for yourself and your little 'uns and not let this matter, as awful and unbelieveable as it is, take too much of your precious time and energy.  Once you've made your complaint I really hope something constructive is done, and it's not filed away as a complaint.  Perhaps it might be a good idea not just to complain but let them know what it is you'd like to see in place that prevents such insensitivity happening again to other ladies like us in the future.

I'm gobsmacked.  Thinking of you and sending you healing thoughts, love, AJ xxxx


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## safarigirl (Feb 23, 2005)

Chrissie,
i was appalled to read your post and that you had to put up with such insensitive comments around such a beautiful and intimate time for you and your DH.  I really dont know what to say, it has floored me that anyone could be that insensitive.  I hope you are feeling better, you have been through so much, and i hope those smiles (and cries and poohy nappies) make it all better!
I am glad that you are going to write to the hospital because perhaps it is the only way that someone might recognise how hurtful what they said were.
anyway thinking of you and absolutely angry about this all for you.


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## longbaygirl (Aug 19, 2004)

Disgraceful treatment - how could they have the gall to even ask you such questions? How did they even know it was an IVF pregnancy?

Agree with others here - don't disclose and tell them nothing unless they NEED to know.

Joy


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## earthe kitt (May 7, 2005)

The more I think about this the angrier I become - and we've still only heard part of the story from Chrissie

Joy - the reason they probably know that it was an IVF pregnancy is that Chrissie probably told them as a matter of courtesy and in the spirit of being helpful. I certainly know that here in St Albans, when I was last pregnant there were very clear criteria on who could and whp couldn't see the consultant in the course of their pregnancy. I was only admitted into his hallowed presence when I told them I had IVF - I hadn't in fact it was IUI but they only saw IVF patients - I had to lie to see the Doc!

Unfortunately it has rebounded very badly on Chrissie and I know that should I be fortunate enough to get pregnant again I will tell them nothing.
Having said that, I would automatically get to see a Dr in a future pregnancy because of my experience with my last pregnancy -but having a consultant standing over you screeching that if you don't terminate he'll see you in court has made me realise why Obstetricians suffer more litigation than any other branch of medicine/Surgery.

As for Midwives - "Independent Practitioners" - My A**e

Jo


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## AlmaMay (Oct 15, 2004)

Dear Chrissie,

I found reading about your experience very distressing.  I am so very sorry that you have had to experience such unprofessional and ignorant behaviour at the birth of your twins.  I followed your progress during your cycle and if these so called 'professional medical staff' had done the same they would know how wanted and loved your twins are and that kind of love can only come from a mummy and daddy.  

I agree with Joy's wise advice and believe Chrissie's experience should make us all cautious.  They don't need to know everything but like Jo has said you can't get things done without them knowing something.  It's a fine line that none of us have completely figured out yet.  That's why FF is invaluable for sharing our experiences and learning where the line is.    

Chrissie, if there is anything I can do to help with your formal complaint I would like to help.  I am very good at letter writing so if you would like me to have a look please do not hesitate to IM me.  I think it is important to make a formal complaint about both the consultant and the midwife as a form of prevention from this happening to other women.  There needs to be a reconition that couples suffering IF and struggling for families should be treated with a great deal of professionalism and respect if they are lucky enough to be in a labour ward.  

Enjoy your lovely twins.  Don't hesitate to IM me if you need help with the letter.

Almamay


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## Joeyad (Apr 26, 2006)

Hi Chrissie,
I am appalled but not surprised to hear of some of your experience of the nhs.  I have spent 8 years on the nhs thinking that they would be able to help me sort out my fertility issues & help me concieve, but due to the blunders & cock-ups (excuse the pun) on their behalf I was totally put off having any ivf treatment.  Because of this I am now in the position where I have no choice but to use another womens eggs.

Asking questions like this just shows how insensitive & ignorant these people can be.  If they are that insensitive, then should they really be bringing new life into the world & dealing with such an emotional situation regardless of where the egg or sperm have come from?

Ooooh, this has made me so angry  .  And people wonder why I say that I would rather give birth at home on my own!!!


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## carok (May 24, 2005)

Chrissie, congratulations on your twins !  

I am horrified to hear how your personal information was being bandied about by the hospital staff,  I am sure that must overstep the line of patient / doctor confidentiality.  It is a disgrace and as others have said,  it makes us not want to disclose, or if we feel we must disclose, than we should tell them that it is strictly confidential !

So sorry Chrisse you had to deal with insensitive people at such a wonderful time.


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## chrissier (Mar 16, 2005)

Dear All

Thank you so much for your replies.  I am thinking of printing them off and enclosing them with my letter of complaint.  If anyone would rather I omitted their comments, then I will.

Thanks again
Chrissie xxx


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## safarigirl (Feb 23, 2005)

No problems, if you want a more formal letter from me to support let me know and will happily write.  Interestingly enough i read yesterday that a man is suing a hospital for a doctor who made an insensitive remark about his parent who was dying.  I am sure they will be very nervous about your complaint as you would have serious grounds for complaint.

Good to see you posting, and i am once again really sorry for you that you had to go through this exprience, and appreciate you sharing it with us, so we too are better informed around what can happen


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## bunless (Mar 2, 2005)

Chrissie I am absolutely disgusted to hear how you've been treated. The obstetrician's question as your son was born was the height of insensitivity, but the midwife's ignorance and stupidity just blows me away. I am so sorry that what should have been a truly magical time has been sullied by your health care professionals' cluelessness.

Last year my husband & I were in the early stages of of deciding to go down the donor conception route & we had already decided that should we conceive that way we would not be disclosing it to our 'carers'. I think your case has pointed out the danger of honesty when dealing with such ignorance.

I hope that your complaint is taken seriously and the hospital use it as a training opportunity for the staff involved.

Congratulations on the birth of your children!

Layla


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## bluebell (Dec 9, 2004)

Chrissie, I put something about this on Buns and Babies.  You are so right to complain.  Good luck and let us know how you get on.  I know what a wonderful and strong person you are, so you can rise above theri rubbish and enjoy your lovely babies.
Bluebell xxxxxxxx


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## Ms Minerva (Mar 7, 2005)

Chrissie - congratulations on the birth of *your* babies!

I was really shocked at the insensitive treatment that you received at the hands of the NHS staff.

Do come back at let us know how they respond

I'm with Layla - that is one of the many reasons that I am not telling anyone, should I be lucky enough to conceive with donor eggs.

Jules


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## atticus (May 12, 2006)

Dear Chrissie,

I am in agreement with everything everyone else has written. I hope you are feeling well and not too overwhelmed with the baby blues - what a way to start out your life as a mum with the babies you have struggled so hard to conceive.

I have to say that i have found men in obs and gynae some of the most misogynist i ever ever come across. Why go into that speciality if you have so little empathy or understanding??

I myself have gone abroad for treatment. with the best will in the world, I think the NHS, for me would have been a bit like the nanny state - interfering and not understanding of my individual circumstances.

I have no intention of telling anyone in the NHS of how I have conceived. Its none of their business. Do they ask aynone else - the exact nature of the conception - like was it in the back of a car or in a king size bed??

The most important thing -  is to be a good parent - which is a selfless and difficult job - the biology is not that important.

Anyway, sorry for the tirade. I just got a bit mad.

Sending you lots of hugs and good wishes - and for gods sake - how can anyone not just want to give you loads of support when you are trying to breast feed twins - Good luck to you girl !!And take care of yourself xxxxx


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## Dobby (Oct 23, 2005)

Hello Chrissie,

I am a midwife and thank heavens all my colleagues at the unit where I worked are highly professional and would never, ever do anything so down right horrid.  The unit where I practiced undertook  fertility tx for NHS patients and so it was fairly common that we had IVF, IUI or ICSI ladies through - and I can say for 100% certain they were treated no differently from anyone else... because they were no different from anyone else.

If anything, their babies were seen as especially precious.

I know how hurt you must have been.  I am adopted and at my mother's funeral my uncle (mother's brother)was heard to say loudly 'can't understand why she is so upset, it isn't like they are her real children is it?  They are only adopted....'.  My mother left him some money on the understanding that he was to give it to us when we were 25... strangely we never heard from him again.  She told the solicitor she didn't need to put it in trust for us, as he was 'family' and wouldn't ever do anything against us.

My parents never saw me as anything but their child, and to me, they are my only parents... 

I hope you complain bitterly to the trust about the midwife concerned.... also to the Nursing and Midwifery Council.

Dobby


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