# Poor Responder....part 12



## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

New home ladies

Happy chatting



Love, luck & sticky vibes
Natasha x


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Thanks Natasha

How are you feeling today?


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Ooooh, another new thread! We ARE a busy thread. Call us poor responders? We evidently respond very well indeed!

Morning Beach!

Natasha, how come you're testing on the 20th? That's only a couple of days before me, and I'm pretty sure you're a couple of weeks ahead? Have you been given a really long wait time by your clinic?

xx


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

Hi beach & Miranda 

I'm doing ok thanks ladies.  Came back to work yesterday but if I'm honest, I've spent more time on here 

Our clinic get you to test 14dpt (irrelevant of what day transfer, mine was day 3)....I'm only 6dpt today 

Had a bad nights sleep last night...sore boobs and a few cramps but putting it all down to the progesterone (Crinone)...not even gonna think about it as it will just drive me 

Anyway, beach, hope you're doing ok hunny  and lots of luck to you Miranda on your 2ww  

Take care
Natasha xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Cheers Natasha!

I'm on the progesterone in oil jabs, but frankly it's a real pain in the **** - literally and metaphorically!

Is crinone just as good? Is it messy?

x


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

Crinone's not too bad...it's a gel you insert with an applicator...it's can be quite gucky and you get all this, what can only be described as "residue" left up you...sorry  which you can, um "remove" with your finger...even more  but it's not as bad as cyclogest and I don't get the bloatedness and windiness  that I do with cyclogest.

I've had Crinone before but took Cyclogest at same time...this time it's just Crinone twice a day.

I wanted Gestone this time and our private consultant agreed but because this is our NHS funded treatment we're under a different Dr (same hospital though) and she wouldn't prescribe it for me 

Anyway, how are you feeling ?  Hope you're doing ok PUPO lady 

N x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Not too bad - quite sore still if I stand for a while, but that's my ovaries and not my womb. I'm kinda hoping for implantation bleeding/feelings tomorrow or Sunday - it would be encouraging anyway!

I HATED Cyclogest - I have bad IBS anyway, and that made me so swollen with wind. When I get IBS my bowel crushes my ovaries, too, so I know it was bad for me - I'd never take it again.
Hmmmn, mess or pain?
I'll see what my GP is prepared to prescribe, I guess - I think it's quite unusual to be px'd the jab stuff in oil I'm taking over here.
But it cost £50 for two weeks' supply in Turkey, so hopefully he can px an alternative to Cyclogest...

Fingers crossed it works for both of us!

xx


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## Pamela39 (Apr 6, 2006)

This thread is moving so fast now. Last posted late Wed night and its just taken me ages to read through what I've missed. Isn't it wierd how so much is happening to loads of us at the same time?

Miranda my cycle buddy glad you are home safely after you nightmare journey - I have been told not to test until Frid 26 but you are Tuesday if I am counting correctly ummm might be tempted to test a bit earlier. Earnie is safely on board so fingers crossed.

Merse hope today goes well . Gab are you scanning again today too?   

Linz - glad the consultation went well and hoping you are feeling a bit better. Hope work is getting better. I am not always sure giving up work is a good idea even if you can afford it financially. I am at my worst emotionally when I have to much time on my hands. Is there a change job which is less stressful you could look into?

Nicki, Roozie & Emma - hope you are looking after yourselves and I hope I can join your gang soon!

Minxy & Kat I've got my fingers firmly crossed for you

Sarah, Kerry, Ali, Laura hello and have an ace weekend


Pammie PUPO

X


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2007)

Pammie P - Congrats on being PUPO   fingers, toes and everything else is crossed for you   

Inc - Glad consultation went well.  When do you think you'll do your natural cycle?


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Emma - funnily enough I forgot to ask and they forgot to tell me... So have just rung them to check...

How are you feeling?


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Hee! They should make a doll called Pammie PUPO! It should have a transparent belly so you can see what's happening to Earnie - the Fastest Embryo in the West.
Oh, and a permanent worried expression!
Maybe it should be like a cyber pet, and you have tasks to do with her - ie two-hourly knicker checks, progesterone injections etc.
I've just had a wash in the bath, and it was sooo unsatisfying! It was all hot and foamy and I just wanted to lower myself in and wallow, but I've been told not to.
And I've had my second Pete jab and it killed! Darn it, is there ANYthing pleasureable about all this?
Are you enjoying your 2WW much?

Inc - I can't believe after all that stress you didn't ask when!!! Actually, I can believe it. Sometimes your brain goes into overload when they tell you something nice, as a member of Team PR. When did they say when you rang them?

Hi Emma!
xx


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## Pamela39 (Apr 6, 2006)

Sorry Inc of course I meant you and not Linz in my post v sorry. Hopefully you get to cycle soon.

Miranda you are a fruit cake    .I have been laughing so much I began to worry Earnie might fall out! Did your old school report go somewhere along the lines of ' she has a vivid imagination' oh and of course ' tends to be a bit of a chatterbox'!

Thanks Emma - what are you doing with yourself these days? I assume hitting the gym is out now?


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I think they might have thought I was a bit eccentric at school!

xx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Pamela  - I haven't given up work altogether.  I have kept one day a week, which pays quiet hansdomely for one day's work and it's not too onerous..  I worked at two different colleges so have given up on one of them.  It's a shame it was the one close to home ie walking distance, but I had to work v. hard for v. little money and it did not seem to be worth all the hassle and was causing me a lot of stress ie not being able to sleep, worrying and so on.  Maybe 10 yrs ago I would have carried on for the sake of my CV as it would have looked good. But at 40 it's no longer so important... I just could not face another Monday in that place...


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Hi all
Mir glad your back safe and sound! 
Gab hope scan went well today?
Well not good news for me my womb lining is still 5 and I've got really different sized follies ranging from 18,17,16,14,12,8 so they are not sure what to do with me! Three consultants had an hour long meeting about it today and have decided that I should have my injections sat and sun a scan Mon and hopefully egg collection Wed. But because of my lining they don't think there will be many eggs and if lining doesn't improve they may not do a transfer just freeze them and transfer them when my linings better.
So was feeling really down then heard a girl I know doing her second IVF got a BFP and I'm really pleased for her but just burst into tears! 
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Awww, Merse, it might not be as bad as you fear.
Have they put you on estrofem tablets? Oestrogen patches? Anything to plump up your lining artificially? I'm still on the Estrofem - they did the trick, as my lining went from 5 to 8 in two days. I was on two tablets a day, then three, then four. I should have a womb like Fort Knox by now!

There's Viagra too, for plumping it up, but you can't get it over the counter here. Can you see if they'll give you oestrogen tablets?

The sizes don't sound that bad to me - I had one tiddler like that too, and a range of sizes. The top four would probably be ready now.

On the friend being pg, always remember that you don't want HER baby, you want yours. Most of the time that puts it into perspective for me - I think to myself, no, I'm not jealous, as I wouldn't want THAT baby.

Inc - you lucky thing, one day a week! I'd kill to work one day a week. Actually, I'd kill to just work from home five days a week. I'd get so much more done if I wasn't bristling with irritation!
So, who will I kill?  

xxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

They haven't put me on anything and they are trying to get a balance of not taking them too early or too late and now is too early not enough ready and hoping it won't be too late!  I don't even feel desperate anymore just really bloody sad wish my body for once would play ball! 
xxxxxxxxxxx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

I was given Viagra at the ARGC and they decided to go ahead with lining of 5.7.  It didn't work, though.. They routinely give viagra but I think the oestrogen patches or tablets are much better bet or whatever they give to people who undergo egg donation to prime their lining...


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Bummer! I'm just wondering if you could maybe get oestrogen patches over the counter? That could do the trick, though admittedly not in all cases. Have they taken your E2 levels recently?
Try not to worry and be sad.
I know how hard it is to keep your pecker up at this stage though.
xxxxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Evening!

Its friday! Thank cruchie!!  Me and tim are having a night off the detox soI'm stuffing my face with onion rings and wine!  

Merse - Hoping your lining thickens up by Monday surely thats plaenty of time?  I don't really know much about lining but can you not call the clinic about some of the suggestions you've got from here??  

Mirra - Welcome home.. is it work Monday?  

Pam & Gab -  

Inc/ Sarah - how you feeling about your up coming cycles? I'm feeling pretty scared.  

Emma, Nicks, Roozie and Pin - Hows our little babies coming along?  

KJ, Oddete, Minxy - hello!!

Af arrived today so got my baseline scan date, start pill Sunday.   I'm cycling again!!


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Laura- I;m joining you on the wine tonight too, didn't feel like cooking so had fish and chips


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

beach!   Sorry I forgot you... I'm crap at personals!!! 

Yup I've got crazy.. eating choco too and tim being in take away! I love fish and chips and mushy peas!!!


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Wey-hey! Cycling again! Rah! Rah! 
Well done Laura - I bet you're relieved to be finally starting. 
No, I'm not going back to work yet - went to the doc's today to get a sick note for a week. Reckon this is my only really good chance to make it work, so I'm not taking any chances with stress.
I have to email my direct boss to let him know - I bet he rings me tomorrow to check on me. Funnily, he doesn't do it to anyone else...  
My GP was a   today, over pxing me progesterone. I've bought enough for the next four weeks, anticipating that he might be a  but he says he knows nothing about fertility treatment so he's not prepared to prescribe unless the local fertility people recommend it. I told him my embryos would die without progesterone support, but he said it would be unethical for him to give me it in case something went wrong.
He is, at least, phoning Michael Dooley to ask if they would prescribe it. But I don't want to see any of the local fertility bods because in the past they've always just made me feel like sh1t.

Have they told you what they intend to do with you this time? What protocol, etc?

xxxxxxxxxx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Laura - I have been thinking all day whether I have the strength to go on...I have v. poor antral follicle count and was given less than 10%, but it's pretty much the end game and I don't know whether I can put myself through it...The dr herself said that I have had an awful lot of treatment this year...

I just so desperately wish I were not in my own skin..  Don't mean to be negative, but it's so hard...
How stupid I was to have wasted my fertile years on and to be paying such a terrible price now...  I felt negative today, Maybe it's a culmination of giving up work and having the app on the same day.  I haven't eaten all day, which is obviously no good either...Of course I am scared... 

Hope you guys are feeling better than I.. I am seriously thinking that it would be easier not to waste the money and move onto DE.  But hubby is against it...most of the time...


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Oh Inc, I'm so sorry all this crap keeps coming your way.

I wonder - would there be any chance of doing a cycle where you have both donor eggs and your own? That way at least you only prepare once and if it comes to donor eggs you just keep going?

I know they do that sort of thing in America - if you ask on the multi-cyclers thread there's a couple over there at the moment and they would give you chapter and verse.

I think it's the odds that are most bringing you down - you at least want more reassurance that you're not going to go through another cycle for nothing. So maybe you could find a clinic that would give you the best of both worlds. It's going to be expensive, but possibly not as expensive and certainly not as heart rending as going through a failed cycle with your own eggs and then going on to a donor.

Also, being in another country doesn't half put your daily problems on the back burner. I'm so glad I went abroad, as it was an utter nightmare doing it here, with all the attendant stress.

Also check out the Jinemed's clinic in Greece, where donor eggs are legal. (they aren't in Turkey) A cycle using your eggs with donor back-up would probably be half the cost of a cycle here including your hotel.

Why not? It gives you the chance to get it all over with in one hit.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Miranda - thanks for your kind words.... I am just so tired and exhausted...psychologically and physically...  

You need to take care of yourself on your 2 ww.  Hope you are eating healthily and destressing as much as poss..

Laura - good on you that you are feeling excited...  I did back in June....


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## Pamela39 (Apr 6, 2006)

On Merse   this IF is so cruel sometimes. I think your follicles are a good size but I don't know why the consultants would think some may be empty because of your endo lining. What I do know after doing this three times now that as quickly as things swing from good to bad they can swing back again and that endo will grow over the weekend. Keep strong  

Laura - fantastic news you are on your way loads of    

Inc stop persecuting yourself we can't turn back the clock so please don't waste your energy on that. Have you thought about counselling?

Pam x


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## *Lollipop* (Feb 1, 2007)

Evening all,

PUPO Mir - Hows the musical pair then?           , I must admit my GP can be the same and doesnt even look at blood results just says he will leave things to the fertility Bods...which is hard sometimes because the clinic is an 1 1/2 hours drive away and you dont see the cons usually do you? Unless its the start or the end of yr cycle... Is that true about the progesterone support im asking because i wasnt giving prog botty tabs last time only given 2 x Pregnyl injections 2 days post ET (I had a full flow bleed on Day 11, no spotting to begin with) sorry TMI . Are prog botty tabs better then?   Sorry to be graphic, but you know what I mean?..Im asking you because you are the Oracle my dear ,a fountain of knowledge!!!!! Take care ...Hope Hubby has recovered also and keeping well too..xxxxxxx

Inc -   

Beach - No what you mean about the cooking, Hope you enjoyed the fish and chips, have just polished off a Bargain Bucket from KFC..Yum Yum  ..Hope you are well..enjoy the   xxx

Merse -   , Im sorry things have been up and down today....Mir has made a good point about the tablets or patches..Ive also heard of woman who are having a DE cycle taking some medication to improve womb lining because they havent been on stimms.  Not sure what it is...The Weekend is also three whole days before Monday and a lot can happen between now     and then..Keep with the milk and protein..im sure you'll be surprised when Monday comes.. Take care... xxxx

Laura - Great News that you are   again (I like this little picture) , Enjoy the   while you can...when does that mean you will be starting (the pill,not drinking)? Are you just doing one month of the Pill...then going for it..  Take care..xxx

Pammie PUPO Dolly-   Hows little Earnie..heres a little bit of dust ....    ..... ..Take care and remember to relax and let dh make the tea (or a least a cup of tea anyway) ok..xxxxxx

Linziloo - Hello dear and how are you?...have you got over them bumps yet?  ..xxxxxx  

Roozie,Emma and Nic - Youll probably be having KFC Bargain Bucket's each by now...sorry Emma not quite a bucket yet but not far off honey..!!!!  Hope you are all looking after yourselves and yr little treasures.. xxxxxx

As for me well EC going ahead as planned....so another Grand National fence jumped...Hope everyone has a good weekend...Catch you ladies soon....Love and luck to everyone .....  xxxxxxxxxx


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## *Lollipop* (Feb 1, 2007)

Hello Swinny, sweetie im sorry to miss you out    Its the medication honest!!!! Hope you well..xxxxx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Pam - I know, you are right....but it's hard.  I notice that you are in your 2 ww.  Fingers crossed for you...

Would you guys go for it with that under 10% chance?


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Inc - I think if I felt I was up to it and could afford it I would, but I would totally hedge my bets and get donor back-up. I would do it where they had more expertise, too - not in the UK but somewhere really specialised such as SIRM. I would want that to feel more confident of a positive outcome.

And given what you're feeling like right now I don't think a straight 10 per cent chance is so much the issue but the way you feel about that 10 per cent chance.
You seem depressed, and it's hard enough functioning day to day _without _ all this tx stuff if you're depressed.
The only thing that will make you more positive about this cycle is if there are factors in place to make you more confident.

Gab - hello!
That's what I've read, re the progesterone - I've never heard of people not having it in some form daily after EC?
basically, if you got pg naturally, your body would produce it, but because the egg was fertilised outside the body, it doesn't have a clue and so we have to feed ourselves that chemical for the first part of the pregnancy till the body takes over.
Isn't Pregnyl an antibiotic or an anti-inflamatory? I got that after EC too, in capsule form. I also got babyprin to take every day, the clinic gave me folic acid (as did my mum and I already had a jar, so it's coming out of my ears), and estrofem. I'm on a right cocktail!
Good luck for EC!

Pam - how's your PUPO-ness? xx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Inc - Sorry your having a crap day.. we all have them. And don't even get me starting on regrets!! I had counselling for about 9 months and it really helped me.  Maybe its something to think about before making any decisions?  Maybe you should just leave things til after xmas and have a few months off to recoop and feel better emotionally.  

Gab - I take the pill from day 3 (sunday) and then do that for 21 days, then stop and start stimms on day 2 of next cycle... so not really cycling yet.. but feel like I am as had to call the clinic today to book in for my first scan (baseline).  I'm not going to be so strict on the drinking and diet this time, gonna go for the relaxed approach this time.

Anyne still up?


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Yes duckling - here I am!

Though I'm going to bed soom - my ovary's aching like buggery. Every time I shift position it's like it refills with blood, as if it's been squished.

Looking forward to your downregging?


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Oh yeah!!! Last time I got really sore nipples on the pill... oh they chaffed on everything! Can't wait!  

Poor ovaries... what our poor bodies go through a.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Very true. Feeling very swollen and odd. Not used to all this resting!

But I didn't feel like this last time - I would have rested if I hadn't felt fighting fit last time, but I felt fine!

I hope you react differently to the pill this time - ugh. I had a rancid time on it this time - didn't at all last time.

Yikes - it's nearly 1am. better get in my nest.

Nighty night!

xxxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Night rene renata and mirra! X


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Morning girlie's anyone up? I slept all eve on the sofa then went to bed a 10pm and slept till 5.30 so I'm wide awake and sitting here with a wheat bag on my tummy (anything to help lining!) xxxxxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Morning merse- I've not slept very well so have been up since 5ish and feel sick


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Beachgirl have you got a bug? xx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Mir just been on face book and noticed its your birthday   
And which one of you won scrab? xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Thanks dear! 35 today - euch. Unlikely to get anything tho - not with a postal strike.

I won Scrab - had a couple of lucky goes - such as the one where I used all my tiles. I had you in checkmate from then really. I should save that game and frame it!

Beach - sorry to hear you're poorly. Hope it's a hangover! Though you're too good to get hangovers!  
It's so irritating to wake early on a day off. Grrr. Pete's got up,, had tea and gone back to bed!

xx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Did you get any prezzies?? xxxxxxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

No  

I seem to get fewer and fewer every year. But I don't really want pressies - they're never what I want!

I'm getting cash from my parents to get a decent pair of straighteners, but that's tonight. Pete got me a lovely card, but we're too skint after Turkey for pressies!

My sister's would be in the post. Anyone know if we're actually getting post today?  

But with the backlog I'll probably be getting cards for a week - so this is officially my birthday week!

xxxxxxxxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Think post is OK now for a while at least!!


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Happy Birthday Miranda


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## Swinny (Jul 10, 2007)

Hi Girls 

Thanks for all your lovely words of encouragement    I was just having a little wobble. I am a bit premenstrual too so that’s not good either.

Linz – It’ll probs be fine on the LP. To be honest it couldn’t be any worse than my last 2 attempts on the SP. I didn’t even respond, so it doesn’t get any worse than that I suppose. I am feeling much better about it all now. Just keep having little wobbles. Thanks for the 

Pam – Thanks for that. That’s booked me up no end. What dose of Menopur were you on??

Rooz – I know I’ve just got to trust what the consultants say. I had forgotten how bl**dy scary it all is when your coming up for a tx. Got to get a grip and calm down. I do trust the consultant and when I had my appointment I came out feeling really excited, so I just have to keep remembering that. He seems like a lovely man and he was the Head Consultant at LWH so he knows his stuff. 

On another note my next door neighbour came round to see me yesterday and said that she’d been to see a medium and that they’d said that someone close to her was trying for a baby and that they would be getting good news soon. I am the only person that she knows who is trying….Please god let me be the one getting the good news!!!!

Gabs-  

Mirra – Hope Renee and Renata are snuggling up nicely. too

Sorry for the lack of personals but I am at work so got to be quick.Hello to everyone though.

Hope you’re all ok.

Sarah xxx


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2007)

Hello lovelies,

Merse    that your lining thickens up and good luck for your next scan.  I'm keeping everything crossed that it all turns out ok.

LB -    that AF has made an arrival and you're finally cycling...I bet it feels so good to get going again?

    for Mirra & Pammie PUPO

Inc - I probably would have a go if I had a 10% chance but if that didn't work I'd then consider donor eggs or adoption.  At least if you have a good you won't be thinking "what if".  

Hi to everyone else  

I had another beta blood test today and it was 319 16dp 3dt.  The nurse told me that was good news but I've just checked on the internet and it seems that my beta is doubling every 82 hours not every 72 hours.  It was 116 on Monday which was 11dp 3dt.  My boobs also seems less sore.  I'm now worrying that everything isn't as it should be even though the nurse said it was ok.  God, I wish I could see what's going on inside of me, that would be so much easier.


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Sarah lets hope the medium was right!!!
Just had a bath to help my lining what else can I do apart from Brazil's (cause I'm gonna look like one!) xxxxxxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Emma I'm sure everyone is different and 10 hours difference isn't anything to worry about! xxxxxxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Sarah - what a lovely neighbour! And so heartening to hear her medium's prediction.

Emma - those levels sound fine to me. It's when they are actually dropping you need to worry, and they're not - they are DOUBLING - yay!

Merse - go to Boots and see if they have oestrogen patches! Good that there's post - maybe I'll have a card or two?  
I've just found out my sis is in Blackpool, so maybe won't get one from her if it hasn't come already.

Cheers for the birthday wishes, Beach! Feeling any better?

xxxxxxxxxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Emma- stop worrying ok and enjoy being pregnant...x

Miranda- ate some toast and tea so taking it easy today.  DH has gone to supermarket bless him


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

I asked about something yesterday but they said they can't give me anything at the mo because of something to do with the eggs?? So don't think I should self medicate!!! xxxxxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Mmmmn, toast - I may have to indulge now! We have the nicest bakery in the world in our village and got a loaf yesterday - bit of Marmite for the B vits, and I'm sorted!

Merse - oestrogen is standard! I'm still taking it in fact. Did they actually do an E2 blood test on you the other day?

I managed to get a shower on Freecycle yesterday, so no more strip washes! Hooray!
Going to pick it up later.

xxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Nope no blood tests!! Does your lining need to be 7mm by EC? xxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

usually - but they can still do ET if it isn't I guess - it's just that it's not ideal.
ANYway, your lining will be more than that by ET!

xxxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

from what I've researched on here its needs to be 7mm by EC to sustain a pregnancy but they are checking it Mon and if I get to EC they will check again if no good will hopefully have some to freeze! I wonder if this is all to do with a D and C I had in Feb?? xxxxxxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Surely they would have told you if that was the case?

I'm sure you'll be up to 7mm - or more! mine was 4mm and it doubled in two days after the tablets.

Yours could easily grow to 10mm by Monday.

Try not to worry.

xxxxxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

I'm only on 5mm so think 10 could be pushing it a bit!!! I'd be over the moon with 7 but any improvement would be great! xxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

5mm was DAYS ago! It'll have grown since then, so there! All those brazils you're packing away will plump it up no end.
Remember the red wine!
xxxxxxx


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2007)

Sorry Mirra, after the me me me post I forgot to say    Enjoy your Marmite....I love it nice and thick...mmmm...yummy x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Awww, thanks Emma! Yes, the marmite was delicious! And contained half my RDA of folic too - I'll be a walking folic acid soon!

xx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

5mm was yesterday!! It was 4.5 mon 5 wed and 5 fri!! xxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Gah - I'm trying to be positive! Sorry.  

Wouldn't it be nice to just have a look inside? Hopefully it'll have grown by Monday, and you can relax.

Bloody bottom jabs - they are REALLY painful. I'm wondering if we're doing it right. Or whether I should do it myself and they'd be less painful. The jab is bad enough, but then the area round it aches all day and for days after.


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Thanx for trying to be positive I'm trying to be as well!! 
Not sure about botty jabs sorry but surely they shouldn't hurt for days? xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

They even did when the nurses gave them. Im a bit worried as some of the drug seems to be seeping out with the blood. Going to get some of this little plasters and alcohol wipes today.
Ow.


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

sounds painfull!! I'm just off to see my best mate as its her birthday today too! xx


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## Pamela39 (Apr 6, 2006)

Happy Birthday to you
Happy Birthday to you
Happy Birthday dear Miranda
Happy Birthday to you

Hoping you get the best belated birthday pressie ever!

I am feeling tired even with all the rest but I have been for absolutely ages but beside that and a few twinges I am fine. Glad everything is going well your end.

Gab - great news on the EC but a bit more detail please how many follies & when is EC. Good Luck!

Sarah - for my LP I was on 300 iui for 7 days then 450 iui for 5 days. My responses have always been very poor but out of the three it was the best response I had so i don't think SP automatically means more eggs for everyone it certainly wasn't the case for me.

Emma - wishing you another 8 months of worrying! I sometimes think we do ourselves no favours by trying to be know it alls about IVF and PG. How about no internet research whatsoever for at least a few days!

Beachgirl - hope you are feeling better

Inc - I would have another go but not until you are in a better place emotionally. I think you should take a break and get councelling you sound so very low. Like Laura says we have all been there but I find it comes in cycles and you will feel stronger soon.

Merse       

Pam & Earnie x


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Mir - Happy birthday...      and good luck on your 2 ww.  You sound v. positive.

Emma - I would go by what the nurse says...
 

Pamela 39 -it's hurtful all this...I guess if I had a decent chance I would feel more positive... Must try to make myself feel better.  How are you at the mo?  I think it's good that I have reduced my workload, but then must be careful what I do with my time as it's no good just being stuck at home and thinking about if.


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

I've just found out that my sister is pregnant again and I burst out crying again!!  I think this week couldn't be much worse for my emotions how do I deal with that on top of everything else!! xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Pamela39 (Apr 6, 2006)

Inc - how about getting fit. When Emma went to HK with hubbies job she wasn't working so hit the gym and look what happened! Wish I was as good at taking advice as giving it as I haven't seen the inside of my gym for months! 

I am feeling fine thanks I think week 1 is always the easiest and I am happily living in fantasy land at the minute and I am enjoying it and trying not to think of the dark times that may be around the corner.

Pam x


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## Pamela39 (Apr 6, 2006)

Oh Merse . Life won't always be this bad I promise you. Sometimes when we are at our lowest we just need to hang on to the fact that it won't always be this s..t. There are happy times to come just hang in there for now.

love

Pam x


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

I'm really struggling at the moment feel very sorry for DH I just want to be happy again haven't been that since all this baby lark started! xx


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## Pamela39 (Apr 6, 2006)

I am not surpised you are stuggling, the news would have been hard enough to hear at anytime but being in the middle of treatment with all the worry of your lining. Hope and pray this tx goes ahead and is successful and you can have your babies together.x


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Thanks Pam   xxxx


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## linziloo (Aug 26, 2007)

Hello girlies 

Miranda, happy birthday my (almost) twin!       
Hope you got some post?! I didn't get any on Wednesday, I think they are working again today though.
Whats the plan for you 4 today then? 

Merse, poor you, its so hard this bloomin business. I am keeping everything crossed that your lining has thickend up for Monday. Don't forget the red wine, it is supposed to help. Maybe a bit of jiggy jiggy might help get the blood flowing too?!

Pam, yay, another pupo lady! Glad you are feeling ok, and long may it continue 

Gab, how are you? Whens EC?

Laura, hope you enjoyed your onion rings  and wine, its so much nicer when you've been good all week! 

Swinney, how are you? Hope you're feeling more positive?

Emma, thats good news that your levels are going up! I suppose the worry never stops though does it?!

Inc, how are you? Its good news about your job. Have you decided what you are going to do about tx yet?

Hi Roozie, Nicks, Beach (hope you're feeling better )


Linz xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Merse - fingers crossed for you...   

Pam - I think you are right. But I am a bit of a single-minded person and I am preoccupied with IF at the mo so am not thinking of anything else, but must make an effort to fill my days with sth I enjoy to destress.


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2007)

Oh Merse,   why does other people's baby news always come at the worse possible time?  Just try to hold on to the fact that you've got some good follies and those mean lovely eggs to get jiggy with DH's sperm.  Getting stressed won't help your follies or your lining.  This IF is just so unfair but we all know what you're going through and we will get you through this


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Going for acupuncture...

Merse - maybe you could try having some to destress a bit...  It must be hard that your sis is pregnant.     I was gutted when I found that my sis was preggers at 44 and she got rid of the baby at 7 wks and I am so desperate to have one...

Mir-  hope you are upping the protein and drinking plenty of water...


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Morning girls, 

Only just left the bedroom  .  No no just had a ly in brekkie in bed and read the papers and then another snooze!! Best get on with some jobs I guess now!

Emma - try not to worry.. I know daft thing to say, but nurse said that is raising nicely so try to hang on to that (we only ever seem able to remember the negative not positive things people say!!).  

Merse - Sorry you lining is being naughty.  I hope its looking fab for Monday.. it really can grow very quickly when it wants too.  As for you sis. Not much I can say. Its tough.  Hopefully in a few weeks you will be having some good news to tell her. XXX

Mirra -       

Inc - enjoy acu. XX

Beach - Hope you feeling better soon. X

Pam & Gab - How are you feeling? POsitive?  

Inc, Odette, Kerry, Pin, Bodia, Nicks, and whoever I have forgotten -


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Linz - Well I got one card in the post, and a friend popped over with a huge bouquet! And people have been calling saying they have my card but they're going to give it to me when they see me, so all is not lost!  

Laura - sounds a lovely lazy day! It's been one thing after another for me today - should have had an afternoon nap after geting up so early, but haven't had chance.

Inc - the eggs are made, so no more protein than normal. Drinking like a fish though!

Merse - you WILL get through this. It's just one of those rubbish phases at the mo. Imagine yourself pregnant and try to will yourself to success. Lining schmining - it will be ok.

Pam - I'm dreading week 2 as well! That's when the madness starts. I'm going to keep busy by continuing with my book - loads to write about from the Jinemed. Hopefully that will stop me going stark raving bonkers.

Inc - 

xxxxxxxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Hi girls thanks for your support its so hard when your sis gets pregnant very easily, like the first month shes tries! And for it to be now is very hard! Well its obviously worn me out as just slept for 2hrs hopefully all this sleep is helping!! 
Mir my mate didn't get any cards in the post either shes expecting them Mon.
xxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Swinny (Jul 10, 2007)

Merse – Ouch, not what you needed this week hun hey!! Chin up, you’ll be joining her in a few weeks time   xx

Emma – Don’t worry babes, those triplets are snuggling in nicely. Relax and get DH running around after you.  

Mirra – Marmite Ewwwwww!!!

Pam – Phewwww that’s really encouraging. Can’t wait to get cracking with it. This waiting is driving me insane. I am counting down the days to my next AF so that I can see whether my FSH is ok to start. But you’ll know all about the waiting game. Roll on the end of October hey!!!

Inc – I felt really low for a good few months after my last tx. But it seems to get better and you get stronger and feel more able to battle again. Hang in there. We all now how it feels to be at that horrible low ebb.  

Laura – How’s the detox going? I am dying for some chocolate. Bahhh!!! I intend to sty in my pyjamas all day tomorrow and watch tv all day long. Its got to be done!! 

Beach - Hope you're feeling better matey xx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Swinny I'm gonna do a pyjama day tom too!!
Can someone sort my bubbles out I need all the luck I can get at the mo and need them to end in 7!! xxxxxxxxx


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## linziloo (Aug 26, 2007)

I've just ordered some books from Amazon - 'Pink for a Girl: What happens when getting pregnant doesn't' & 'Beyond Childlessness: For every woman who ever wanted to have a child - and didn't'.

I need some help with getting my head around all this. I know that some of you have got a plan B, but I haven't. I really can't see any happiness for my future without children. I suppose I need a plan B, but there's nothing else I want to do apart from be a mum!

I'll let you know if thy're any good!

Linz xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

PS, Miranda, I'm going out now, so I'll have a birthday drink for you! xxxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Merse- have done  

Swinny- not too bad now, just off out to see a Gilbert & Sullivan play...

Linziloo- that's a really good book, I cried when reading it x


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Thanks Beachgirl my luck is crap at the mo!! xxxxxxxxxxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Hi all!
Hope you are all having a good weekend! Am on call so been in to work this am, seems under control now  
Mirra -   Have fun girlie! Only 10 days til test (or is it 9 now?) doesn't time fly.  Hope you are feeling OK  
Emma - levels sound fine they are going up. I never had them - maybe would have made me worry more. Will you have any more done? What is next on the agenda?   Are you having any cramps? I thought these were pretty reassuring that something was happening/
Merse - Bad timing with your sis.   Its such an emotional time for you. I'm sure your lining will have a last minute spurt  
Inc - everyone gives different statistics and they don't always help.   It will either work or not work. If you were not a poor responder your best chance if you look at most clinic stats for age 40 is about 25% and you know you are a poor responder so it will be less. Basically they are telling you what you already know. You just need to decide whether you will try again or not, but you don't sound in the right frame of mind at the moment. You can never predict whether you will just get lucky thats the problem  
Sarah - so AF then hopefully LP at end of month! Good plan. BFP by christmas!  
You too LB (PJ girl!   ) - those pill weeks will fly by. Watch out for the nipple chaffing though!  
Beach - hope you are feeling better now. Not long til you follow up   Enjoy the play
Gab - glad all seems to be going well. Do you have another scan before triggering? You will soon be PUPO  
Linz - hope the books are good.  No one seems to write one without a positive ending either (bodes well for our mirra    ) Have a nice evening  
Pammie - hope you are feeling OK. Hate the stress of the 2WW  

Well after the postal strike my doppler finally arrived from e bay. Was in 2 minds whether to try as I needed a plan for not going insane if I couldn't hear anything. Anyway after about 5 mins of moving round I found the HB! I just looked at DH and we both had tears in our eyes. Feel very reassured now   Still drinking lactulose like there's no tomorrow though!  
Love to all I've missed - Pin, Kity, Rooz, KJ
Chat soon
nickster


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## linziloo (Aug 26, 2007)

Beach, which one did you read? 

Hi, Nicks, awwww, you heard the heartbeat! I bet that was lovely, I'm so pleased for you and DH 

Laura, have you still got your jama's on? 

We were supposed to be going for a meal tonight, but only went out for a couple of drinks. I'd rather cook, even though its a saturday night! And Pete's wanting to watch the Rugby  I'm cooking pork tenderloin with maple and mustard sauce with roast potato's and shallots


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Sounds delicious, Linz...Good on you...

Nick - awww must have been quiet an experience to hear the heartbeat.  Thx for your kinds words...
It's been a few difficult months for me...

Good luck to our PUPO ladies...fingers crossed for you 

Laura - you sound v. positive, too.  

Swinney - Hope you are ok


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Oh, how fantastic Nicks! I didn't know you could get one of those for home use - thought the only people to see their baby's heartbeat at home were the Cruises... Was it expensive?

Linz - blooming rugby! My Pete and my dad were glued to it right through my birthday meal, the bleeders.   Are you starting to plan for your next tx yet? Or is it too soon? I know planning mine relieved some of the crap after my BFN.

Beach - how the other half live! Off to see an operetta, eh? Which one was it?

Merse - I have your dog's twin staying again! Well, your dog with it's legs cut down by half, anyway. he's just walked under my Staffie - proof of his official shortarse status!
You'll be joining your sis soon - you'll see. And to have cousins the same age will be wonderful  

Sarah - why deny yourself chocolate? I've never understood how it's so bad, especially if you have the 70 per cent cocoa stuff - that's meant to be really good for you! And it only takes a little to give you the choccie hit.

Inc - it does lift, eventually! I was at rock bottom last year, and it lifted. It was making an appt with the Lister that did it.

I think I ought to go to bed - I've overdone it today, evidenced by the throbbing in my right tube/ovary.
If I just lie down it goes away. The pain, that is, not my ovary.

Night night, Team PR.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Nicks that must have been lovely!!
Mir hope your ovary is feeling better today? And my dogs twin is having a nice hols at yours 
Beach hope you had a good eve?
Still feeling like crap today just taken the dog for a walk and now going to have a bath and get clean pj's on and lay on the sofa all day and wallow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! xxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2007)

Merse - Just wanted to say good luck for scan tomorrow.  I hope your lining has grown  

Nicks - It must have been an amazing moment to hear the HB    Is that your new hobby now?  

Hope the PUPO ladies are well and not going too mad.....yet.

Hi to everyone else

I've spent the day worrying about my hcg levels.  I don't think it helped matters that the doctor said he would like to see it in the 500's or 600's and it was only 319, even though the nurse said that was good.  Am a bit confused and am going to ring the clinic first thing tomorrow for more clarification and try and get another beta done.  Having a few niggles today which I can't work out if they're good or bad and boobs seem less sore than a few days ago....arrrggghhhhh....I'm driving myself mad!


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Emma - as long as it's rising and not falling it's FINE. I know it must be such a worry though - you kind of go through this thinking if you just get a BFP your mind will stop scratching its balls. But it doesn, does it?
When are you having your next one? It's a 6-week scan next week, isn't it?

Wallowing sounds nice, Merse! I have to go to Asda while Pete is here to carry the bags, then to collect my shower - didn't make it yesterday with the birthday madness.
But I will be here in between times! 
Are you swollen in the belly? That seems to be a sign your lining is growing - it was with me, anyway. But then I don't have a normal body either!

I've started a 2WW diary - always the first sign of madness setting in. Going to buy some tests today and sit for a week looking at them...  
I've prepared my jab, but can't face having it yet. Should I rub an ice cube on the area beforehand? Would that help?

xxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Emla cream is v. good.  You don't feel a thing.  it's available in pharmacies...  forgot to mention earlier...


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2007)

Mirra - scan was scheduled for a week on Saturday but am hoping to change it to a week on Friday.  I should be 6w+4 by then.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Emla cream? Does that numb it??

God, I would be so grateful, Inc... I'll ask at Asda's pharmacy this afty.

Does anyone know if you can prepare a jab to go and leave it? Does the progesterone go off?

Whoo! Emma - scan! That will be amazing. Are you going to get a doppler too?

xxxxxxxxxx


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2007)

Nooo....I'm too scared to buy anything....even pregnancy books!  

Are you mixing the drug?  If so I don't think they advise preparing jabs and leaving them.


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

I used the Emla cream for gestone and it made it bearable. Rub it in a few mins before injecting... Dont' know if it's available in Asda, though.  I bought mine in one of the Harley street pharmacies.   
Wellbeck or J. Bell and Croydon - can't remember which one to be honest, but both should have it...

Also try using the blue needles they hurt less i/o thick green ones...


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Not mixing, no - just drawing it up then jabbing it in.

I'd better get it over with 

It'll be so nice to have that first scan and start buying the books!

Inc - it's a four-hour drive to London for me! If Asda hasn't got it I'll find it on the net, hopefully.

xxxxx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Maybe it's available in your local pharmacy.  It can be bought without a prescription. It's an anaesthetic effectively, but is available over the counter...It helps loads...


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

No swollen belly nothing no EWCM just leaking still with small amount of creamy CM no twinges since Fri to be honest I've just given up can't do anything else and we have just had a call to say one of the lads who works for DH has been killed in an accident he was only 25, I didn't know him but what a waste of life it certainly put things into perspective. Feel for his poor family  xxxxxxxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Oh merse - that sounds terrible   It does put it all into perspective though. I lost my cousin aged 22 and my dad in the same year. Don't lose hope though - there is every chance it will all be fine tomorrow.  
Mirra - hope you get that EMLA - you need occlusive dressing (clear plastic stuff) to put over the top and then give it an hour to work  
Emma - hang in there, I'm sure it will all be fine. My first 'book' was a mothercare catalogue at 8 weeks that my friend gave me   I sent for one off Amazon too cos you really do need to look up some things!  
Hi Inc - hope you are having a good day   
Might have to go and lie down this arvo - getting a regular occurrence!  
NW


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Nicks that must have been really hard for you. 
I have given up on this cycle I'm hitting my head on a wall at every turn think someones trying to tell me something!!  xxxxxxxxxxx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Merse try to eat garlic.  It helps with circulation in the same ways as viagra....


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Oh merse my love.   I wish I could magic it all to be ok for you. I really want to promise you all will be fine, but I know I can't and it won't help as you know I can't magic it all better. Sometimes for me things go ok when I'm least expecting it too. I hoping all is good at the scan tom.. What time is it?  

Nicks - Oh that sounds fab! So you can listen to little beanie ALL the time now!  

Emma - Whn i was preg I went straight to tesco and bought a 'what to expect when your expecting' and read it from cover to cover... really good book... although I've chucked it in the bin about 10 times voer the last 2 years, but always got it back out again!   Maybe one day it will come in handy!

Oh girls... I got so drunk last light, tims friend is over from HK and very last minute went to a cuban place in Soho, had dinner and then went dancing was great fun!!  HAd to get the night bus home and got in at 5am!!! Oh thats what my life used to be like!!! Not long been up and just been tesco shopping... need another nap I think!

Love to you all. X


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## *Lollipop* (Feb 1, 2007)

Afternoon Ladies, Me in Pj's too.. 

Miranda -  my PUPO friend...    ...please forgive...   (Belated)..another fellow Libran..hanging on to the thirties like me though im 38 (Groan)....!!!! Hows the jabs sweetheart..i would also say you shouldnt really draw up an injection then leave it...better to give it honey. Emla cream is the biz....! If you cant get it You could try warming the area a little bit,..though that might make you bleed more ..so catch 22 sorry.
Im thinking about asking my cons about Gestone injections...though i wont yet as dont want to tempt fate    and im taking every fence as it comes right now..with EC tomorrow that will hopefully be another one jumped..  Pregnyl is the pregnancy hormone called HCG..it tells yr body that you are pg so you start naturally producing progesterone.(They also use it in yr Trigger injection in large amounts to give you a surge of LH to make you ovulate at the time of EC...(I think) That was the 2 jabs i did last time 1 at ET and one 2 days after.(Im not sure how long Pregnyl stays in yr system aswell) Im still a bit worried about my progesterone levels during my luteal phase, since i didnt make it to test day last time and bled fully on day 10..oh well will have to wait and see what the professionals say..(Thats what we are paying them for afterall)..Told you i was a worrier  
I also forgot to add in the shower singing "Save yr love" this morning and my dh is asking WHAT are you singing!!!    for the two of them...xxxxx
Phew I did waffle a lot there didnt I?

PUPO Pammie dolly - Hope you are doing well honey..and the 2WW madness is just scratching on the surface... lots of PMA...    some for Earnie too!!!!! (By the way are you using Botty tabs..sorry TMI) 

Nicki - Bloomin on calls..  , hope you are not too tired and are having a break now sweetie..Lactulose, DOUBLE  EEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWW!...The HB is an amazing sound isnt it...in recovery when we get pg ladies in for ops we get the madwifes down to have a listen after the procedure to make sure everything is ok...its magical isnt it...I always blub  
Was sorry to hear the news about yr father and cousin . ... Im sure with yr job, I know with mine it does make me stand back some days and look at things differently..Take extra special care..xxxxx 

Emma -  Try not to worry honey...  , like Mir said the levels arent dropping they are increasing..Allow yourself a little peek now and again at the baby mags...You are PG afterall....!!!!! 

Merse - Sending you some    vibes for tomorrow, hope all goes well. i use a hot water bottle at night to try and keep blood flowing...i remember from my acu sessions about the cold cave(womb) being mentioned. What time is scan in the morning, will they be doing yr bloods?
Also   with regards to yr sisters news...you could have news for her shortly too.. xxx 

Inc -   Just wanted to say hello, hope you are ok and Im thinking of you. I know acu has also helped me in the past..take care.. 

Linziloo - Jammies rule...!!!!!  well i think you have a bit of Delia Smith going on there...best not let my dh read these posts or he'll have me doing it..I can just about fry an egg...(ok I can boil one too)  

Laura - That scan will be around before you know it...I def felt better when I knew we were going again.. ..  (Jammies...rule  !!!!!)  

Swinny - Yeaaaahhhhh...I remembered hope you are well honey..That witch will make an appearance before you know it..then it will be all go at Alton Towers again..  By the way Jammies rule...  dont they?

Roozie - Has Macdonalds ran out of food yet (All that eating for 3 etc!!!!!)..Hope you are well and looking after yourself..Take care sweetie 

Hello to the rest of the PR crew.... 
As for me EC tomorrow...  , had a   today...dh kept saying come on this is an exciting time....I think its just the memory of last time..anyway girlies will go and get on with my housework as I am the domestic goddess (NOT) will be having a rest after tomorrow for a wee while....take care everyone..you are always in my thoughts and thanks again for all yr support..i think dh appreciates it too as it gives him a break...if you know what i mean...PMA....  ........Gab


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Laura - great you had a fab time....Sometimes we all need to do sth we used to do and enjoy... 

I felt so relieved this morning that I don't have to go to work tomorrow...  Although, as soon as I feel better I do plan to look for more hours again ... Must get my life back on track!  

Nick - feeling better today, thanks.  Hope you had a snooze... Is your bump showing yet?  

Merse - fingers crossed for you.  Know what you mean about the lining.  I had the same problem back in June for my first ever IVF.  My lining was only 5.7 before EC and embies were slow on top so didn't stand a chance...You need at least one or the other to be right.  Maybe and this is just a thought, you could have the embies frozen and do the FET when they can get your lining to be right.  

This infertility malarky must have a silver lining somewhere... It's a test and a challenge and we must somehow find the way to beat the odds one way or another....  

Have just been for a lovely walk and will now try to do some work as I was called to do some preps for work on Tuesday, which I didn't expect...  Nice and tidy £160 quid, so didn't refuse... Even the bleeding ivf induction at the Create costs £100.  Don't see why I need an induction when I already know what to expect...


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

You have to pay to go to an induction?!!!! What!!?? Thats a rip off!  I hate it when clinics rip you off. Grrrr   Like all this isn't tough enough already!

Mirra - Forgot to say them injections are known to be painful... I know one of the other girls had them.... hope the cream helps. X


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Well, Asda's pharmacy offered me something else, but it was in a tiny tube and looked terrible value! I rubbed ice on it today and it didn't hurt, plus I've got some alcohol wipes. Pete also rubbed the site after the injection, which is meant to help disperse the drug so it's not  causing pain for days.

I do feel different this time - hope that's a good sign.

Inc - I agree with Laura - what a rip-off!   But you sound lots more positive today. Getting going helps. That's a new tip, re the garlic!

Hee! Linz, I love the thought that I've helped make Rene and Renata popular again! Though maybe the word's not popular exactly...
Good luck for EC tomorrow - lots of lovely egg vibes coming your way!

Merse - good luck for your scan tomorrow! With any luck your womb will be like elephant hide and your follies full of equal-sized eggs. It's not impossible! They'll trigger you tomorrow and then Weds you'll be another step towards joining your sis in bump-hood.  

Laura - last night sounds great! Such fun. Are you suffering today?

The rest of ya - hi!

xxxxxxxxxxxx


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## jo100 (Jan 6, 2006)

Hi guys

have come to gatecrash this thread, hope you dont mind...

just had another failed cycle - this time my 3 eggs didnt fertilise.  Absolutely devastated, particularly as just 5 months ago I had a 100% fertilisation rate with all 3 eggs.

Not sure where to go from here.  We;'re going to have 1 more go with my own eggs and if that doesnt work then try donor eggs.  But we need to change clinics.  My clinic only offers 4 amps of menopur and the most eggs Ive ever produced have been 5.  I cant take the stress of only producing a few eggs next go particularly after none of them fertilised this time.  

Its so frustrating because in previous cycles weve had grade A embryos put back in, so the fertilised eggs have been good quality, which is why I have no idea whats happened this cycle.

Can any of you girls recommend any UK (or overseas) clinics which are good for poor responders?  My clinic only scan you twice, wont try any drugs apart from Menopur, and just basically tell me that I should give up now! 

Miranda - I notice youre at the Jinemed.  Ive just been looking at that clinic.  What kind of drugs did they offer you and have you been impressed by them?

Feeling very lost..... 

Good luck to you ladies on the 2ww, I wish you all the luck in the world.

jo xxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Evening!

Mirra - Yes suffering.. in fact I may go back t bed for ANOTHER nap soon!!

Jo - Welcome.    Sorry you've had a crap time.  WHat clinic are you at? Sounds like mine!! But Im still NHSing so can't complain.  Mirra seaks very highly of the Jimined, I looked into it too an d was planing to go but then I got offered a NHS cycle. Mirra was on menopur and something begining with L!! She'll be along to tel you all I'm sure.  Some of us are also taking DHEA too whichis meant to improve egg quality.  We ar a great bunch on here.

Merse -   for tomorrow!

Gab -   for tomorrow!

XX


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

I have to agree with LB - we are great!  
Welcome Jo - I'm sure you have lots of room for improvement on your next cycle. No fert must be absolutely devastating when you have got that far.  Any idea why?
Merse and Gab
[fly]Good Luck for tomorrow!!!!![/fly]
Will be thinking of you both 
Mirra - what cream was that then from Asda? Glad today was better - it will be worth it in the end.
Inc - feel a bit lardy but no bump yet! all that lounging around and sleeping!  Bought some new jeans today they are size 12 petite so that's up a size for me but they have plenty of room to grow! Rip off paying for induction when you are an old hand 
Hi to all others! Have a good evening. Just eaten lovely pot roast lamb - gorgeous!!!!  
NW


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

I've just eaten lentil stew with dumplings!!   Lovely!


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Hi Jo!

Well I only have good news for you - and it sounds like you are badly in need of some 

The Jinemed is absolutely fantastic - I couldn't recommend it more. I went to the Lister before going there, and they are the second best in the UK, so I feel qualified to tell you: The Jinemed is three times as good. It's reflected in their success rates too, despite the fact they take on poor responders.

The prices too, are unbelievable: £1,500 for IVF or ICSI, with blastocyst or assisted hatching free if that's what you need. I paid £1,250 for my drugs, and I was on 450iu - they were going to do that all in Menopur but I wanted a change, and so I had 300 Gonal F and 150 Menopur, plus Femara - which works similarly to Clomid to increase the number of follicles  in poor responders.
The hotel cost us £1,100 for 18 nights B&B four star, but you can stay in another hotel for £750 B&B.

We also paid £500 for Pete's sperm aspiration, which was so expertly done he felt no pain. They butchered him in this country for the princely sum of £2,670...

The procedures are MUCH more thorough - I was scanned every two days, and saw the consultant every two days. It was fab. And I got a much better response.
I can't believe they only give you 300iu. That's just not enough for a poor responder, and no wonder you had problems.
Have a read of my 2WW diary - I've only done a couple of entries so far but a lot of the details are there.

The other thing is, you get to chill out while having treatment. I found this an enormous bonus, as I get very stressed at work.

And another thing that's very different to here: They recognise you as soon as you walk through the door. You're not a number, you're treated as a person. It's so nice to walk into a fertility clinic and be greeted by 'Hello Miranda!' Wow.

Everything about going to the Jinemed transformed my opinion of how tx should be done. I can't gush enough! If I fail in this attempt I will go back, I think - though before this tx I promised myself I wouldn't try again, as it was such an awful experience. They love children over there - a woman in my hotel brought her six-year-old and she was forever getting accosted in the street by people who wanted to pinch the girl's cheeks and coo over her! They really want to make you pregnant, the Jinemed.

ANYway, that's quite enough of all that gushing. Check out wwww.ivfturkey.com - I promise you you'll get a better response and a much better experience of tx.

I'm so sorry to hear your last cycle ended so badly. But we'll look after you on Team PR, won't we girls? Best thread on FF, this is - stick around!

Nicks - lamb, oo   Mum cooked the tenderest lamb ever last night. To die for.

Laura - poor head! There - I'll   it better.

xxxxxxxxxxxxx




/links


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Hi Jo don't give up hope I think a change of clinic is called for!! Sorry about your last cycle but theres so much you could change! 
I'm after some advice I've got a tummy ache, in the middle of my tummy like period pains not ovulation pains! Also getting these globules of creamy stuff (Sorry TMI) what do we think is going on xxxxxxxx


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## *Lollipop* (Feb 1, 2007)

..Jo


Merse - could be a very good sign..doesnt it mean yr oestrogen is picking up?  ..not sure..
Im sure at my lst scan thats what the scanning lady said. (Sorry cant rememer proper title)...If oestrogen picks up you get this show and its also in response to eggs growing and im sure that means lining will be thickening too    to be ready to recieve an egg...


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Oh well Gab all will be revealed tom! Good luck with EC  xxxxxxxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Mirra - I won't be able to go the Jimenid (?) next year as everyone on here will have flown over with your recommendations!!    How you feeling?

Merse and Gab - Already said it but GOOD LUCK tom!! XX

I'm off to bed, so wish I didn't have to go to work anymore.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Still sore on the right! I posted on PS and someone said she felt sore for a whole MONTH. But then, she did have 44 follies...  

Very, very swollen too. But for once not with wind but womb. Non-painful! It must be the oestrogen tabs.

Working is such an evil thing. It's just not right. We should be housewives with a little pin money job. God, I'd love that.

Merse and Gab -  for tomorrow! I'll be here waiting for news! Globules is GOOD, Merse. It shows things are happening in there. Hope all those eggs come out bursting with fertility, Gab!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Mirra - oh poor you.  44 follies!!!!    Blimey.  

God yeah, who invented womens rights? I was born to be a housewife!!  My sister hasn't worked for 9 years (since her son was born) and has worked the last couple of years in tesco about 12 hours per week!! I do that per day! And she has a lovely house and 2 lovely kids!!   Where did I go wrong?


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Not FAIR  

12 hours a week in Tesco? Every little helps, eh?

Sigh.

Tell you something that's getting me down - if we wanted to stay here I couldn't afford to have kids! I hate the thought of having to go back to work after six weeks.

But I'll think about that if I turn out to be up the duff I guess.


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2007)

Gab - Just wanted to say   for EC today - I'll be thinking of you.

Merse - thinking of you too   

Mirra - Hope your ovary pain has eased off  

Pammie - How are you and Earnie??

Well I phoned the clinic this morning and the nurse said to me that she was going to call me anyway as the Dr wanted to do another beta test this Wednesday as they seemed slow to increase.  I said I'd rather have one today so I'd know either way what was happening.....so, I've been and had the blood test and am now waiting for the results.  Boobs are less sore and I've had loose bowel movements since Saturday which is in contrast to last week when I was v bunged up.  All in all I'm not hopeful and am preparing myself for the worst.  It doesn't help that DH is away on business and my Mum & Dad have gone to Thailand for a few days, so I'm all alone  

Be back later with more news.......

xx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Emma- just logged in before returnign back to work this morning so wanted to say good luck for results and thinking of you  x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Morning!

Emma - I do believe we all knew you were pregnant, by some sort of weird osmosis, so we're now telling you it'll be ok, ok?

They say that slow-growing embryos can be the best ones - slow and steady wins the race! And up to now it's not been _that _ slow. Let's face it, if you were ignorant of all these pregnancy facts you wouldn't worry a jot probably. You're still in the normal range for this time - I've been looking at the tables, too!

Gawd, I know I'm not helping! 

I hope today brings good news.   

Beach - how's your Monday shaping up?

Gab - you'll be facing the anaesthetist soon - good luck!

Merse - what time is your appt?

I woke this morning with the unexplained anxiety back, and wondered if it's something to do with this house. Surely going back to work a week away isn't causing this? It's not the 2WW -I seem to get this every day, but I didn't get it in Istanbul?
Could something like pylons or mobile masts cause this?
Maybe it's just four animals all circling wanting attention and food?
Maybe I should have a maid and a swimming pool at home...

xxxxxxxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Emma we are all here with you and sending lots of 
Mir what do you mean about your house??
More bad news for me lining hasn't grown he actually spent ages trying to find it!!! so they are going ahead with EC wed but are not hopefull of many or any eggs and will see whats going on with the lining then! Have cried so much this week end but could cry for England again!!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2007)

Oh Merse - We're all here for you too.  Why don't they do E2 levels at your clinic - that would give them an idea of potentially how many eggs you have.  I sending you lots of    that you get some good eggs on Wednesday...in the meantime make sure you stuff your face with chocolate brazils to help the lining.  I know exactly how you mean about crying for England...I can't seem to stop today.

Mirra - You're probably feeling anxious as your house holds lots of sad ttc memories.  In Turkey everything went so well for you so you associate Turkey with a feeling of positivity and home with negativity.  I'm sure that spending hours on FF doesn't help matters and I know that I'm guilty of that.  A maid and swimming pool sounds fab......we have a pool (shared & usually fully of little kiddies) but sadly no maid!  I think not working and having a maid would be taking the p**s slightly!

Beach - Hope your first day back isn't too bad   

I'm still waiting for the call.....I'm making myself sick with worry.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Oh Merse. I don't know what to say.

It's such a poke in the guts for you after all your efforts. It could still turn around - a woman in my hotel had the same problem and had one grade one embryo put back.

Hoping that you get some good news on Weds.

I don't know what I'm saying about the house - but I find it weird that I can wake up to a pneumatic drill for two and a half weeks in Istanbul and not feel anxiety yet I get back and it starts up again.
I dunno - I just want to move far away, to somewhere cheaper and a different job, get away from all the triggers that caused my depression last year.
My tummy's gone down - which I'm taking as another bad sign. Going to take all the dogs out in a mo and try to shrug off these feelings. It's on the tip of my mind to take a train to town and get some cheapo tests and see if the jab is still in my system. Need something to keep me occupied!

I'm praying for you kiddo - Wednesday had better bring some good news for you or I'll be up to have a word with your ovaries myself!  

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Emma - gawd, waiting for that call has to be a form of torture! Really though, I know FF is helping - I signed in early and had two lovely messages as well as positive vibes on the threads. It helps not feeling alone in the 2WW madness.
Did they tell you when to expect a call?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2007)

Mirra - They usually call between 3:30 and 6pm.  I'm thinking that it's bad news so the Dr will call me to break the news which is why I haven't heard anything yet.  

It's a dangerous game testing so early but I s'pose at least you'll know when the trigger jab is out of you system.  I did think of doing that this time but I would have spent a fortune on pg tests as I couldn't find any under £5.00.


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Mir don't think you should start testing yet hon! I am so with you on the house thing which is why I asked! We bought this big family house and started trying for a family nearly 5 years ago but all this house has seen is misery 2 m/c 3 IVFs and so many tears I just think its a really sad house. And the people who had it before us split up shortly after moving in (it was brand new then!) I think we need to move out and move on! xxxxxxxxxx


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2007)

Merse - We did the same in the UK....we bought a big family house hoping to fill it with children but all it holds for me are sad memories of ttc.  When we return to the UK I don't really want to go back there but I'm not sure that's a good enough reason to sell....moving house is so expensive.


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

I know, we have looked into it even had the house on the market but I know I can't stay here anymore it just reminds me of what I haven't got I need a little place in the country and lots of animals to mother! xxx


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2007)

That sounds just perfect    I found it really hard in our house in the UK seeing all my neighbours around me get pg time and time again, producing these babies with such ease...it made me feel inadequate.  

Still waiting for the bl**dy phone to ring.......grrrrrrr


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

It never rings when you want it to! xxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Going to Asda to do some shopping goodness knows what I'll buy can't think straight I'll be back on when I get back XX


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

But it's gone 6 now

Any news Emma?


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2007)

Just had the call.....my level has fallen to 166   they are asking the lab to repeat the test to make sure, but it doesn't look good.  Feel numb.  Got a glass of wine on the go.....need a *** too but haven't got any in the flat.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Oh, Emma.

I am gutted for you, absolutely gutted. Go get ****, and chocolate, and cheese and Pringles and go mad. Is DH there?

Although... I'm going to post on peer support for you to see if anyone's had a viable pregnancy after their levels have fallen. The only thing I can think of is that you had a twin but lost it. Could that be an option?

So sad for you 

xxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2007)

Mirra - I've not had any bleeding which is why I think it's all over.  If I was losing a twin surely I would bleed.  Plus my hcg levels have halved which isn't good.  DH is away tonight on business - I'm on my own


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Ach, poppet - that's dreadful. have you called him?

I don't think you would bleed yet necessarily. Is the doctor going to phone you to discuss this? I guess it's late now over there - 7pm.

You shouldn't be on your own now - is there anyone who can come over?

If I hear anything positive on peer support I'll let you know.

How close is the shop with the **** and junk food?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2007)

I can't get through to him  

Thanks for posting on Peer Support but I think I know that it's all over for us this time.  I suppose at least I know that I can get pg albeit for a v short period.  I'm waiting for the nurse to call me back with the double checked results and then I'll ask her what happens next. She said she would call me later tonight.  

Once I get through to DH I'll ask him where he keeps his secret stash of **** and I'll raid it    Got loads of UK chocolate in the house from when my parents were here...but for the first time in my life I don't want chocolate...just alcohol and lots of it.  My parents are in Thailand but come back to HK tomorrow so I'll tell them the news then.  None of my close friends in HK know about this tx only a couple of people who I've met through an infertility group know.  I've emailed them and I'll probably call one of them later.

Thanks for being such a sweetie xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Someone's just replied to say their levels halved, then doubled again - and that reply's within minutes.

try not to panic too much Em - it's not necessarily over.

xxxxxxxxxxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Em don't give up hope yet when will they let you know the checked results?  
Have just spoken to the clinic they said they couldn't get a clear picture of my lining today as my womb was tilted back apparently it does that sometimes! They are not massively concerned about the lining and will check it again when they do EC they consider anything around 6 is fine so will have to wait and see what happens Wed! xxxxxxxx


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2007)

Ooooo Merse - that sounds more promising


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Well I don't think its great but I'm glad its not disappearing altogether!! Any news yet??


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Oh that's a bit more positive news Merse - if it's tilted then they may not be able to see the lining properly.

How was Asda?

xxxxxxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

I think he saw enough to know its crap!!! And Asda was crap goodness knows what I've bought prob nothing that makes a meal!!! 
xxxxxxxxxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

How you doing Em?


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Em- hoe you're ok, thinking of you  x


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2007)

Still no call from the nurse about my repeat bloods but I must admit that when she said my hcg level had gone down to 166 I stopped listening. It's 8pm here so I doubt if I'll hear from her tonight.  Still can't get in contact with DH either.  Am crying lots which I guess is a good thing.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

OK, the way I see it there are two things to feel positive about:

 That your levels are still WAY above the 18 minimum they could be at this stage
 That your levels have halved, indicating there might have been twins but one now

I'm praying that that is the case.

Crying is good though - better than that empty lost feeling where you feel numb. I'm so sorry this is happening to you. If only you could fast forward to that next call from the nurse.

xxxxxxxxx


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2007)

The nurse has just called.....she confirmed my hcg levels are 166    I have to stop my meds and then wait for AF to show which could take 7-10 days.  Once the bleeding has stopped I have to go in for a scan to check everything's OK. If If AF doesn't arrive after 14 days I have to give them a call.......I'll be going out of my mind by then.  If I want to I can start FET on my next AF.  Not sure how I feel about that at the moment.  Have spoken to DH and he's going to call again in mo, so I'll probably sign off for now.  Thanks for all your support. xxxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Emma- so sorry, if you need to talk or anything at any time I'm here for you x


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Em we are all here to support you  thinking of you both xxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Emma - I'm so sorry  come back and talk to us when you feel up to it. xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## *Lollipop* (Feb 1, 2007)

Hi Guys,
Just a quick note.... ...for Emma...
Merse hope today wasnt too bad..x

As for me well EC didnt go as expected today...my oestrogen levels were 4500...so my cons and I were very hopeful for some eggs...instead we got 2 eggs out of 6 follicles.
I asked why did i have a high oestrogen level and they said it was only a guide to tell them to go ahead with EC and that an egg was present and it wasnt an exact science.
We were then asked whether we wanted to go ICSI or IVF as we were borderline...We were also told that they didnt know if the eggs were mature or not?...We said go for ICSI which would be our best bet for fert...They then called us just after i was discharged to say eggs not mature enough   and that we had to wait till tonight...at 5.00 to see if they would mature in time if not they could not inject them and we would lose them... 2 hours later we were telephoned to say that they were now mature and would be injected though the egg quality wasnt great...so dont know whether they will fertlise..xxx

So chaps my dh and i are in for a long night ahead.....  for ET....also not impressed with anaesthetist as he was hopeless at cannulating and had the cheek to drop a glove on the floor and still use it afterwards ....  tut tut nic eh...

  for our PUPO ladies Miranda and Pammie..Hello to everyone else....sorry no time for other personals as feel very tired and very drained catch up soon guys....Gab......  but hopefull..   xxxxxxxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Gab- just a quick post to say sorry to hear EC didn't go well but try and stay positive for tonight and that phone call tomorrow, will be sending positive vibes for them to fertilise


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Ach, Gab - what a dreadful day you've had. Hopefully with ICSI they'll both fertilise - but it's going to be a hard wait to know.



What an awful day on this thread girlies. ((Group hug))

xxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Oh girls - not such great news today then  
emma - I'm so sorry you must be devastated.   Don't know what to say really but take care of yourself and when you feel ready to draw positives at least it did work for a bit this time and you have some frosties.     Thinking of you and DH  

Merse - well at least there is a bit of hope that they just couldn't see properly.  Still keeping fingers tightly crossed   
Gab - at least you have 2 eggs -hope they are fighters   I'd have given you a top GA dude!   Hope you get some good news tomorrow 
Mirra - glad you were there for our Em today - good on you girl! hope you are OK and surviving the madness  

Chat later everyone else
Love Nicks


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## skywalker (Aug 8, 2006)

hello,

i was wondering could i get some advice from you girls?  i posted on here a few months back after our first cycle of ivf failed due to poor response - i'm sorry i haven't kept up with the thread but i sort of only posted the odd time after the cycle.

we have now a new date for our next go - december time.  our dose of drugs will be increased but is there aby advice you all could give me?  i would very much appreciate it.

thank you
skywalker


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Hi Sky!

If you can give us details of your previous protocol we could suggest something that might work better. I was on DHEA for four months before my last cycle - order from www.agestop.com - which is good for poor responders.

Hi Nicks!

Yeah, just about surviving  
It's all downhill from here though - I can feel the insanity of the second week closing in!

xxxxxxxxxxxx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

What a horrible day!  

Emma -  keep strong, thinking of you...  I wish I could say something to make it better for you...  

Gab - it's not going to be easy the next 24 hrs.  Wishing you the best of luck.  It's tough...   

Pam -   

Mira -  keep strong girl and be good to yourself.   

The ARGC thread has also had a horendous day.  ... no heartbeat for one of the girls and one chemical...  


Today is a black Monday...methinks...


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

It def feels like black Monday! Gab keeping everything crossed for you hon!!! 
Ems  
My bloody boobs are now starting to hurt what does that mean  
Hi to all xxxxxxxxxxxx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Merse - fingers crossed hun...  HOpe your lining gets better.  Can't harm  you trying garlic...  It works on men so there is no reason why it should not work on the lining as well...


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Have you triggered yet Merse?

It could be that.

Inc - God, it sounds bad over at ARGC too. It's all so sad - I just can't believe it.

Let's all cross everything for Gab's two eggs to fertilise - reckon it will be a better day tomorrow.

xxxxxxxxx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

GAb - they will be two little fighters tomorrow....


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Oh my.    What a sad day for the PR team.  

Emma - I'm so so sorry.  Love and hugs and anything we can do you just shout.  

Gab - We all want lots but we only really need one good one... hope one of those eggies is gonna make you a mummy.  

Merse - Things don't sound too bad? As they say you don't really know whats happening in there til they get in there.  

Mirra - we are all moving to the lake anyway.. we will have a comune and none of us will have to work, we'll just grow our veggies and sell our handy work!    All baby sit for eachother.. will be fab!

Nicks, Inc, pam, Roozie and whoever I have forgot - Hello!


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Laura- sounds idyllic, we'd love to stop working and have the 'good life'


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

That idea just seems sooooo appealing. A lovely lake, and The Good Life-style veggie patch.

Emma - are you still awake? It would be 3am over there, but still - we're all here if you're up.

I had a warm feeling round the middle today - I so hope that's implantation. Knowing my luck it's just auntie's early warning system.

Not being able to have a bath is doing my head in! And sex - it's funny how you want it more when you've been banned. Luckily the **** jab didn't hurt today - think Pete's getting a more skilled nurse as time wears on.

xxxxxxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Miranda- you're funny


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

No haven't had trigger yet its at half ten tonight! Anyone else had sore boobs before EC or just me? I seem to get symptoms I shouldn't have and none of the ones I should get!!!!  xxxxxxxxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Merse- good luck for trigger, have you got something to keep you awake?


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

I'm still awake but only because I'm thinking of the trigger all the time!! xx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Good luck Merse!


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Thanx Inc just had my trigger! Also read my stuff from the clinic and it says breasts may become tender when stimming!!! xxxxxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Merse - All voer and done with now merse!    Last injection done with! 

Beach - I always forget to mention whoever posts striaght after me!   Sorry!!  How are you doing my love?

Mirra - Maybe your bum has just gone numb!!!!    Tim is actually very good at giving injections.

XX


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

See Merse - your normal!


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

No Laura nobody would ever describe me as normal!!  See you've won scrab again!! Another go xxxxxxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Oh, believe me - it's not numb! It's a mass of hard lumps where the jabs have been.
Yowsers.

Merse - are you STILL awake? Listening to your eggs roll down your tubes?

Beach and Inc - you've kept Merse awake between you!

I was watching Dragons' Den - I love that show.

xxxxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Just off to bed now! Night xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Night night petal! Sweet eggy dreams! WILL them to roll down...

xxxxxxxxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Night merse! Yup... round 3... ding ding!!  

Mirra - Yeah I was watching it too.. maybe we could go on to get funding for out veggie/ lake business? Bet your a great sales person!! 

X


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

I don't thing we want merse's eggs rolling away!!! They need to stay put ready for Dr Fertility to catch them in his net!!!


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I don't have a scorching red mohican tho!

I reckon a commune for poor responders sounds a viable proposition. We could sell it like a cult, where you give up all your worldly goods to the leader to enter - that would be me and you.

Oh, and I reckon we can have some acolytes too - some hunky ones to peel us grapes.

We'd give them 10 per cent of the commune's takings in return for £1,000,000 to buy a remote island with a mansion on it. With a pool.

Oo, my imagination. It's alright when it gets going, so it is.

Darn! Knew I'd get something fundamentally gynaecologically WRONG!

Sorry merse


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

I could always fachion my hair into a mohican!  

Great, you think we need to work on our business a plan a little more or you think we've covered it? 

I'd give us the money


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Nah - think that's it, in a nutshell.

They'll be clamouring to give us the cash.


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

I will sleep soundly tonight knowing our little venture is under your belt and ready to go!

Night night. X


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Night night, sweetpea x


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Just started us some more scrabble games! Game on girls!!


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Yay! I'll have my go now
x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Been!


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2007)

Thanks for all your support ladies, I don't know where I'd be without FF.

Gab - I've got everything crossed that your eggs fertilise and you have some lovely embies to go back in   

Merse - Glad you sorted out why your boobies are sore    Mine have deflated and gone back to normal now, which on a positive note means I can fit into my bras properly  

Mirra - Thanks for yesterday - you were a star.  I really really hope you get your BFP this time round...you so deserve it  

Feel a bit better this morning although I did wake up for a few hours in the middle of the night (and had a little surf on FF too!).  Getting AF pains on and off so hopefully something will happen in the next few days.  My stomach is also flat for the first time in weeks which means I can fit into my clothes again.  I would much rather be pregnant but I'm trying to find some positives in all of this sh1te.  DH is back from his trip today - can't wait to see him and have a big hug.  

xx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Emma thinking of you lots 
Girls if I manage to get to ET should I stop all my vitamins I'm on and just take pregacare or carry on with them all?? xxxxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Ah, thank goodness - this must be so much worse without DH there, Emma. I got up at half six and tried to log in to see if you were there, but the website had problems!  

So I went back to bed and now it's half NINE - must watch this sleeping business.

Glad you're managing to see some positives in all this, bird.    
What time does DH get back?

Merse - I think many of the vits you're taking ar e already in Pregnacare - check, as OD-ing can have its own probs. Once I was taking 1000mg Vit C for ages, but my diet is already quite high in it and as it speeds up iron absorbtion I had high iron levels. When I stopped the Vit C I could poo again!


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## jo100 (Jan 6, 2006)

Thanks guys for such a lovely welcome!  Still feeling very lost about the failed fertilisation, first day back at work today which I'm finding very tough!  I just want to go home and lock the doors and hide under my duvet.....

Miranda thanks for that info about Jinemed, wow it sounds amazing....  but did you have to stay out there for 17 days or can you go for a bit shorter do you know?

Emma, sorry this is the first time we've met but I'm so sorry to hear what you're going through.  But it sounds as tho you have some wonderful supportive friends on here to try and help you through it.  I'm thinking of you anyway.

Gab - have everything crossed for you about those 2 eggs.  Believe me I know how scary this bit is waiting for the call.  

girls as you're poor responders can I ask if you've found any difference in changing drugs?  I've been on 4 amps of menopur (300 iu) and the most eggs I've ever had were 5 - has anyone tried any different drugs like Puregon or Gonal F and have they made a difference?  Or increased the menopur?  My clinic won't increase it as they say research has shown that it doesn't make any difference at all, but I'd be interested to have any feedback from you lot?


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Yes Jo, you can go for shorter and do the first bit in London. However, it actually works out more expensive because of London prices!
I'd recommend going out there for the full time because it allows you to relax . But the option is there, anyway.

300iu of Menopur is pretty low for a poor responder - we've all been through the low dose/no response thing, so if you got 5 on that dose that's pretty good.
However the Lister or the Jinemed would put you on more, for sure. Your clinic sound pretty inflexible, really. Some people do respond better to Gonal F or Purgeon, but generally poor responders need the LH that is also in Menopur.
Nicks will tell you more about that - she's our resident doc!

I think the worst thing about these clinics that don't do this and don't do that is that they don't actually work out any cheaper than the highly-rated places.
Have you checked out the success rates of your clinic?

xxxxxxx


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## jo100 (Jan 6, 2006)

Yeah it's about 25% - Newcastle Centre For Life.

It's really interesting what you say about upping the dose - as Newcastle are adamant that it doesn't make any difference.  I just want to prove them wrong!!!! 

xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

You WILL prove them wrong. Clinics with better success rates would give you a higher dose than that, and may well combine the Menopur with other drugs. 25% is very low - the Jinemed's is 57%. What age group is that for?


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2007)

Hi Jo - Welcome to the best thread and thanks for your kind words.  On my last cycle I was on 6 amps of menopur for the first 2 days, then 4 amps for the last 7 and I managed to get 8 eggs.  I had an FSH of 9.8 on that cycle and my AMH is 8. My Dr said to me that it's good to use high doses at the beginning but once you get the follies stimulated you can lower the dose.  Doing it this way worked for me.  On my first tx (different clinic) I had 5 amps of menopur for  4 days and 6 amps for the remaining 5 and got 6 eggs.  If I were you I would definitely try and get a protocol where you have a high does intially and that seems to kick start the ovaries.  Goo luck!   

Mirra - Thanks for thinking of me  

Dh due back in an hour - I can't wait  

My parents came back from Thailand today and I told them the sad news, we all had a group cry.....I can't believe my Dad was crying but I guess seeing me so upset must have started him off.  It was good to cry a bit more as I'm getting it out of my system.  Still no sign of a bleed and my boobs are slightly more sore today...I guess it's my body playing tricks on me.

Gab - Am thinking of you


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Awww, Emma - my dad cried when the guy at the Winterbourne told him my DH had no sperm.

He _had _ just had two operations on his prostate, to be fair, and was feeling weak.

It's so raw, seeing your dad cry. They must have felt so thrilled for you and now this - tx is a terrible process when things go wrong and it's a real learning curve for our parents, isn't it?
The last time mine were convinced I was going to be pregnant, while I was feeling quite negative. This time they are very guarded, while I'm feeling a little more positive!

How therapeutic - a family cry and DH home in UNDER 60 MINUTES!!!! That will be wonderful, eh? Break open a bottle I would.

Hang on in there Em.

xxxxxxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

I couldn't get on here first thing either!! Felt quite panicy without you all!!
Em glad you had a family cry its so therapeutic, be lovely to have your DH home 
I have also just cried all over my Dad, I went to cut his hair and we were talking about things then he said it will all be alright and I just burst into tears and said it won't Dad and proceeded to blubber all over his shoulder! He said he and my Mum haven't slept prop for ages as they have been worrying about me and knew about my sis but didn't know what to do for the best!! Now I've made him worry more but just can't seem to stop crying at the mo!! 
On top of all that I'm a bit sore down below (sorry TMI) and I've got this creamy discharge bit cottage cheesy (sorry really TMI) not sure about it but its not smelly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mir hope you haven't succumbed yet!!!!!!!!
Gab any news hun??
Lol to all xxxxxxxxx


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## *Lollipop* (Feb 1, 2007)

Hello Ladies - Just about got homecall to work...just wanted to say thanks to everyone for all your support, it has really helped...we really didnt sleep last night..This morning i was shaking before the phone went even more than last time..Well guys..one little fighter has made it and beaten the odds..Im a bit frightened to post as my cycle has been so unpredictable...  for ET...
Merse - Hope it all goes well tomorrow..will be thinking of you sweetie..  
Thanks again everyone for thinking of me....xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  Gab


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Thanks Gab And great news on your embie making it!!  Good luck for ET  xxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Oh that's great news Gab! Fantastic - we're all willing that embie to divide like buggery for you.

I've just got good news - my doctor is willing to prescribe progesterone injections. He went and looked it up and just phoned, saying apologetically: 'I do TRY to be supportive you know...'
Poor sod probably had his ears burning for hours after our appt.
Ha! Peestick police be gone!
I just got my tests in the post and did one as a control, which was negative, so anything from here on in would be a positive.
I'll do another in the morning as an extra control, then put them away till Friday. I was even nervous doing this one! But like all fears they have to be faced down if you're to desensitise yourself.

Merse - awww, crying all over your dad  Once the problems aren't simple they must feel so helpless. You and your discharge! I think it's a good sign, really - it shows something is happening. Tomorrow for EC! 

xxxxxxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

good news from your doc Mir!
I do like to share my discharge stories with you!!  what about feeling sore though do you think I should ignore it
Do you think you'll put those pee sticks away
Going for acu soon then back to work till late had to rearrange all my clients for the rest of the week haven't bothered with next week yet will see what tom brings!!! xxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

What do you do for a living, Merse? Nice to have such flexibility!

I think sore is OK, as long as it's not unbearable - you should find the pain changes tomorrow after EC. God it will be a relief for you to wake up when it's over and get the news! 

I don't know about the peesticks   It's tempting to just do one a day, then I'll know the moment something happens - if it happens.
We just got the ride-on mower we asked for on Freecycle, too, so my luck is in today! Bloody six-foot mower - no garage space again! But Pete will be thrilled with it.

I've just hoovered two bedrooms - they're the hard bit, being carpet and not wood floor like the rest of the house. My womb aches! But I'm determined to get round the house - it's only small, and the rest won't be so much of a workout.

Then I have all my waterproofs ready to get the critters out. Think I'll leave Merse's twin at home though - he's not too keen even in dry weather! Well, he's used to Tibetan weather in his ancestors' past, isn't he?  

Have you seen Natasha's (Minxy) sad news? She's started bleeding - there's a thread for her in negative cycle.

xxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2007)

Gab - that's great news    that this is the one

Merse - Sorry to hear about your cottage cheese    I can't say I've ever had that whilst stimming.  Our poor Dads, eh?  I forget how hard it must be for my parents, I know they worry about me and my ttc woes and I don't think it helps matters that I have a very fertile sister who gets pg just by looking at her hubbie, that said, I do adore my nephew.

Mira - Great news on the prescription front.  I'm not sure I'd be able to stop myself POAS if I had them in the house on a 2ww....if you can, you're a strong lady.  Are you sure you won't be doing sneaky tests every day ??   I heard Minxy sad news, we were both posting on the cycle buddies thread.  It's such a shame, she so deserves a BFP.  IF is so unfair.

Well, DH is home at last and we've had lots of hugs.  My parents have gone out to give us some space and we've had a chat about feelings (which is good for my man!), the impending miscarriage and when we want to do FET.  I did cry again but I think I'll be doing that for a while.  My Dr also phoned me today to offer his condolences and tell me that although it ended without a viable pregnancy it was good that there was implantation and it bodes well for the future.  He also told me that my bleed would be heavy which I'm not looking forward to.  Am sat on the sofa, using the laptop, with DH massaging my feet and, despite what's happened over the past few days, I feel kind of content.  Don't get me wrong, I am down but I am most certainly not out.

xx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Mir I'm a hairdresser I work for myself so I do what hours I want as long as I earn money!!! Yes I've posted on peer support for Minxy so sad 
You gotta do what you gotta do re the pee sticks!!!
Don't over do things those embies don't want knocking around!!! 
Off for acu enjoy your walk!! xxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Em glad you got DH home and your def not out girlie!!!


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2007)

Merse - I just wanted to say   for tomorrow as I'll probably sign off in a mo, it's 8:30pm here and I'm shattered.  I'll be thinking of you and praying that you get some good quality eggs     xxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I know exactly what you mean, Emma, about the contentment - that comes from knowing that you are truly loved, whatever might happen.
Even though something awful has happened everyone's rallied round and you are at the firefront of their thoughts - that's a wonderful feeling.

Hmmn, hairdresser eh Merse? That'll be useful in our lakeside commune!


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## jo100 (Jan 6, 2006)

Great news Gab, what a relief.  That little emby is definitely a fighter!

Emma - thanks for the info about menopur.  Now I just need to see if there are any clinics near to me in Newcastle that offer a tx plan like that. Otherwise it's Turkey here we come!  So pleased that you have dh to look after you right now, it's exactly what you need.  In dark days I tell myself that no matter what I have my wonderful dh who is always there for me, and that I'm luckier than some who don't even have that.

jo xx


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## vonnie15 (Mar 28, 2007)

Hope everyone is doing okay today.  I'm due to start tx again in Dec and I wanted to get your opinion on when I should stop drinking, eating chocolate and whether as a poor responder I should start getting the protein levels up by drinking milk again.  I'm not drinking much at the mo just a 1 or 2 glasses of red wine at the weekend max.

Just wanted to get your advice as I'm sure I'll be a slow responser again this time and just want to be prepared again

Vonnie


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## linziloo (Aug 26, 2007)

Hi Ladies,

Emma, I'm so sorry for you and DH  Look after yourself honey. Its good you've got your mum and dad with you aswell. Don't forget we're all here for you too. xxxxxxxxx

Gab, hang in there matey, you've got 1 little fighter. Got everything crossed for you for ET   

Merse, good luck for EC tomorrow   

Miranda, naughty girl, peeing on a stick already!  How are you feeling?

Laura, can I join your commune? Sounds fab!

Roozie, how are you? Where's the scan pictures?!

Hi everyone else 

Spoke to my cons today about my next protocol - LP with max dose of Gonal-F mixed with Menopur 
Don't know if I like the idea of a LP. I'm not starting till January though, I've got an appointment with a different cons in December to discuss having level 1 & 2 tests, so I'll ask him of his opinion.
Miranda, wish we could go to the Jinemad, but Pete's not mad keen on the idea, also, he only gets 2 weeks holiday apart from xmas, so it would be a bit tricky.

Started back at the gym yesterday, and have stopped smoking, woo hoo!     I feel like my depression of the last few weeks is finally starting to lift, I'm starting to feel more postive again, and it feels great 

Linz xxxxxx


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## linziloo (Aug 26, 2007)

Hi Vonnie,

I think if you're only drinking 1 or 2 glasses of wine a week, then I wouldn't worry about it. Same for the chocolate, maybe just stop it when you start tx if you're worried. I don't think it will affect your response. 

Linz xxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

The men only have to be there for a week Linz - but it would be kinda lonely I guess. I had a ball, but that's because I was with a fellow FF-er.

I'm not feeling too bad! A few cramps this afternoon, which I hope are slightly late implantation pains - 8 days since EC. It's the first time I've felt anything womb-wise and not just my ovaries. Gawd, I dunno. It's all so precarious.

Great to hear you're feeling better! I wish I could go swimming - that really relaxes me and makes me fit. But I've been banned till test date, so nothing doing.

Vonnie - red wine is good for womb lining! No, really! There's no reason to live like a nun - there's no evidence it makes a difference. I'm sure stress is worse, in fact. Have you been taking DHEA? That's worth a shot I think.

Hi Jo!

xxxxxxxxx


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## vonnie15 (Mar 28, 2007)

Miranda,

Good news at last about enjoying a glass of red wine.  Not sure about DHEA?  Don't you need to take it 3/4 months in advance, can u buy it in the UK?

Vonnie


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Well a few weeks is ok - and it's very cheap, so you might as well! You can only order it from America - I used www.agestop.com - and it was £20 for 300 25mg tablets. The full dose is 75mg a day, but I took 50mg for fear of rising testosterone.

I drank red wine throughout stimming, and I'm still having the odd glass, being as it's good for circulation! Just make sure you drink lots and lots of water, too.
On the chocolate thing, the same applies - the organic 70 per cent cocoa stuff is good for you - and it's impossible, I find, to eat a lot of it.

I think the most important thing we can do is relax, really. This IF sends us all bonkers enough, without blaming ourselves when it goes wrong.
We'll take care of you!


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## vonnie15 (Mar 28, 2007)

What did you do about increasing your protein intact.

Vonnie


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I didn't - I've got quite a balanced diet. I did make sure to eat eggs for breakfast while I was over there stimming, but couldn't every other day as my bowel got in the way of scans of my ovaries if I ate breakfast!

I ate loads of goat's cheese while I was there, and got a craving for steak later in the stimming - I'm lucky in that I don't crave rubbish like crisps or fizzy drinks - I usually crave proper foods!

People will disagree with me I know, but the drugs are doing the work in growing your eggs - you can't override them with protein. Too much is bad for you, like everything else - it could affect other organs if you blast the protein.

I know I'm being a bit controversial though - people swear by all these things! But I've yet to be recommended to eat any particular thing by a clinic. The Jinemed were very pleased I had been taking the DHEA, folic, zinc and selenium though.
xx


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## Pamela39 (Apr 6, 2006)

Emma I am so so sorry I can only imagine how devastated you must be.

Gab -    to your little follie.

Merse - things certainly look a lot brighter - Good Luck for tomorrow

Mira - I have no symptons at all. Are your boobs still sore?

Jo - I am at the QE in Gateshead - they let you have upto 450 iui Menopur. They get better results than CFL but not as good as the likes of the Lister or Miras one.

Vonnie - I don't think it makes a jot of difference as long as its in moderation.

Nick - sounds amazing being able to hear the babies heartbeat whenever you want too.

Laura, Roozie,Linz, Inc & everone else hello

Pam x


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Mir I'm with you on the diet thing I haven't changed mine its normally healthy and balanced anyway!!
Thanx for everyones good wishes will let you know how I get on! Am very nervous about eggs lining etc etc.................
xxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

[fly]GOOD LUCK FOR TOMORROW MERSEY!!!!!  [/fly]

Pam - I'm quite emotional tonight. Hope that's not what I think it is... Boobs still big and a bit sore - ****, as ever, sore - swollen and warm belly. Hum.
It could be auntie, but I'm hoping not, of course.
Do you get lots of AF symptoms each month? I do, and I've got some of them!

xx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Evenign girls!

Tim has discovered paying risk on face book and keeps hogging the comp!!  

Emma - I really welled up when I read about your dad crying. Its so wonderful you are close to them, I hardly speak to my family.  

Merse - Good luck for tom my love.  

Gab - Is ET tom?  

Mirra - Sorry for all the ranting today.. think the pill is making me all hormonal already!!

Nicks, Pin, Rooz - How are you ladies and bumps?

Inc and sarah - You feeling all geared up to start??

Beach and Linz - Hows you two doing? linz glad you feling more positive.  

Vonnie - Welcome.... I'm with M, I really don't think if I ate every brazil nut in tesco it would make a joy of difference!  

Pam - PUPO  

XX


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Laura- tis the other way around in my house and I hog the laptop


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## kitykat (Sep 21, 2006)

Hello,

wanted to drop in to say good luck to Merse for tomorrow. Will be keeping fingers crossed for you. I think just pregnacare and healthy eating from now.

Gab - I hope your embie is doing well - it only takes one  (so I'm told!!)

Emma choc - I was so very sorry to hear your sad news. Life is so cruel. I think you were very brave (despite having no choice) to cope on your own. Glad DH is back and your parents. 

Miranda - I think if chatting on here made a difference to embryo stickines then yours must be well and truly superglued in by now!!! I love their names.

Jo - I had 5 amps of menopur , but my most sucessful cycle was in Spain when I was on a lower dose combined with Gonal F (would need to check my notes to remember dose) with no downregging but cetrotide to stop ovulation from about day 5 of stimming. I got 8 eggs, which I was thrilled with. 

Vonnie - chill - I don't think it makes much odds. I stopped drinking when stimming started and had a couple of glasses with dinner between EC and ET. I tried to have Horlix made with milk at bedtime and yoghurt for breakfast.

Well I looked in last night but you seemed to have enough bad news. I got another BFN yesterday. HCG<2, but no A/F yet. At least I made it to test day. Ordered a clearblue fertility monitor last night as wel as DHEA and preseed. I don't want to see another doctor for a while so will give it a shot ourselves. Feel like our sex life has been put on hold with so many cycles in one year so time for a break -but not too long as overies a bit dodgy. Not throwing in the towel yet, however mad everyone thinks I am for having more than 3 cycles.

Hi to everyone else I haven't mentioned by name

Kitykat
XXX


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Kitykat I'm so sorry   Think your right to have a break for a while. I don't think your mad having more than 3 cycles! look after yourself and DH.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Kity -   I'm sorry honey.  I hope the Dhea works.. it did for our nicks. XX

Merse - Good luck tom... I'm out after work but hope someone give me a text update! XX

I'm off for an early night....


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## Pamela39 (Apr 6, 2006)

Kit   very sorry to hear your news. I think its harder to stop than keep trying.

Mira - its way to early for AF symptoms yet. I'm not even worring about that til next week. Do you usually get AF symptoms this early? Kits comment about chating on here/embryo stickiness was ace 

Goodnight Laura off now myself. Its a relief being back at work as spent most of Sunday wondering if Earnie was alive or dead. I am knackered today but a lot saner.

Pam x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

That a hint, Laura?   Yup - I'll be here, moby in hand...

Pam - that's what I keep thinking, that auntie's not due till Monday at least. But I keep hearing of people who start bleeding early. Fingers crossed I'm not one of them - I didn't last time.
PUPO Pair, that's what we are!  

Kat, I'm so sorry to hear your news - what a dreadful blow. How wonderful, being able to try for free! But I guess the grass is always greener, eh? Hope you had lots of cuddles and nice things to make up for such a dreadful day.

Merse - you're up late! Has the trigger re-programmed your waking hours?   I bet you're just sat there worrying your **** off - I know I was the night before EC. I just kept saying to myself, ah well if I can't sleep - I'll get some sleep tomorrow whether I like it or not! Better than counting sheep, that anaesthetic.

xxxxxxxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Thanx Laura 
Mir don't want to go to bed cause then it will be tomorrow and I'm too scared of what it will bring!! But I'm really tired! I've challenged you at scrab!
xxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I was the same! And in our case, Pete was dead scared of his op and what it would bring, too - sooo scary. Would there be sperm? Would there be eggs? Would we stand a snowball's chance in hell? Turned out ok though.

We were tossing and turning like wee tossy turny things.

How's your other half? Nervous?

xxxxxxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Hes nervous for me I think, he doesn't mind either way about children but he hates seeing me upset and going through all this! If it was up to him we'd call it a day get another dog and move to the country! But he thinks I have to say when enoughs enough as I can't look back in a few years time with regrets!! xxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I think Pete's similar - he has children, so it's not the same for him really. But he's desperate to make a baby with me - in a way I don't think he was when we started this journey.

Je ne regret rien - it's the only way. Could you not get another dog and move to the country anyway?

That's you and Laura both doing that - Nicks has already done it and I was always holed up in the country anyway.

We could all be bumpkins together!  

Does your other half have kids already?

xxx


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## kitykat (Sep 21, 2006)

Hi again,

You lot chat so much - there is always a new post to find.

Mir - you are right - we do have the possibility of a miracle - but 4 and bit years without a sniff of one makes it very unlikely. I liked having a month "off" when I was on the pill before a cycle but still hoped I might get my miracle. Your post made me think I should try to be more positive about the "unexplained" label. It's just that there must be an explanation we just don't know what it is. It might be impossible but we don't know that. I find the uncertainty very difficult, but it my nature to want an answer to everything. I must have some hope left or I wouldn't still be trying every month though. Maybe thinking lucky will help - thank you for pointing it out. It is easy to forget when everything feels so bad.  You shouldn't get A/F early with the progesterone jabs - glad your GP relented. 

Merse - I can never sleep the night before EC and so really look forward to the sedation so I can get some kip. 

Hi Laura - thanks for the post XXX

Pam - I missed you out before - sorry. I found being back at work in 2ww much better. Went loopy loopy la la at home. Fingers crossed for you and Earnie  Agree giving up is not an option. Maybe I am just in denial.

Nighty night
Kitykat
XXX


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Mir no he doesn't have any children I think he would have liked them if it just happened but because its gone on so long hes moved on in his head also men don't feel the way we do!
Kitykat I'm looking forward to the sedation too!!!!
Off to bed now with hot milk DH has just brought up to me! xxxxxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Kat - four years is an awfully long time. I would hate to have unexplained infertility - like you I want answers. Have you had further tests than just the basics? It must be so hard to keep positive with no actual reason for it not working.
I'm quite glad in a way I have such little time left - it will draw a line under it for me and I can leave it behind knowing I've done everything I can.
Got to count your blessings I suppose!

Merse - I'm going dairy-free tomorrow! Well, cow's dairy free anyway. I've got my sinus trouble back now I'm home. I've dusted and it hasn't made it better, so I'll try no cheese. Then if that isn't it it has to be the animals - I'll have to hoover the dogs.
I do like elimination to get the answer to things.

xxxxxxxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I've scrabbed Merse - wow, this game's going fast, for us!


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## kitykat (Sep 21, 2006)

Hi Mir 

really must go to bed
DH is away.

I have days when I wish that I would be told that it is all impossible because then I could move on but that is absolutely daft and I know it would not be better than this in reality. I have a low antral follicle count and fluctuating FSH - has been over 10 and as low as 3 - no doctor can explain that!! Have avoided AMH as I don't think it will change what we do. Might explore immunology next, and had a plan to do that soon if this was a BFN, but I just need a break from investigations and treatment right now, but trying ourselves makes me feel we are doing something about this in the meantime. Next stop ARGC (Nottingham sounds more my cup of tea, but dad has a flat in Marylebone so London much easier) probably March next year. Will refer myself/us in January and think there is a three month wait. 

You sound so positive this cycle - I hope those embies are sticking.           

Really am going to bed now

Kitykat
XXX


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Hmmn, I think AMH is so definitive, as it doesn't fluctuate like FSH and antrals. But then, without that I'd be an unexplained, too! (Well, not quite as DH has no vas, but I'd be wondering why I was only getting one egg each cycle!)

I feel this cycle has gone well, but I'm under no illusions as to whether it will work - I would be astounded if it did really, given all my circs. But then, with two grade ones on board logically there's no reason why it shouldn't.

I'd really recommend the Jinemed - but feel I'm getting to be a bit of a stuck record!

The ARGC has a better reputation than Notts, surely? I still can't believe how much difference there is between clinics.

Anyway, you sleep well. And again, I'm so sorry about your BFN - hope you're being looked after.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## jo100 (Jan 6, 2006)

Morning guys

Miranda - it's too early for af symptoms!  Praying that they're implantation signs, got everything crossed for you!

Merse - good luck for today, will be looking out to see how you got on.

Kitykat - so sorry to read your news but I admire your determination to move onto the next step.  I've heard nothing but great reports about the ARGC.  Would love to go there myself but it's just too expensive for us to take the risk of going there - and too far from newcastle! Wishing you tons of luck for 2008.

thanks Pam for the info about the QE.  A friend of mine went there several years ago when they offered Puregon and got about 10 eggs but a BFN, then when she went back for her second attempt they'd changed their drug to Menopur and she only got 3 or 4 eggs...  but I didn't realise they let you go up to 6 amps so that's really helpful.  Has anyone changed clinics before?  Can you just ring up and arrange a consultation and then go for it?

Also had a really prompt reply from Ugur in Jinemad. He says he would use 300 iu Menogon (is this similar to Menopur does anyone know?) and 150 iu of Gonal F on the short protocol.  Miranda were you on the long protocol?  Does being on the SP make it more complicated and would I have to stay over there longer does anyone know?

oh god I've got some big decisions to make!!!!  Scary times!!! 

jo xx


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## kitykat (Sep 21, 2006)

Jo Scho

I changed clinics just by calling up - they will want a summary of your previous treatment though, so either get a copy of your notes or a summary letter from you previous doctor. Short protocol is really short. You start stimming drugs pretty soon after A/F arrives and 10 - 14 days later have EC. I found it much better than long protocol as it is over so much faster and I responded better.

Good luck

We will have to wait til the spring to go to ARGC as savings all dried up for now - I think a break is in order anyway so I'm not worried about that. 

Kitykat
XXX


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Hee! Menagon is just the same as Menopur but they give it to you intramuscular - ie in the butt. I had two days of that and opted to change to menopur - those butt jabs really hurt!

So opt to have Menopur instead of the Menagon and that's the protocol I was on.

I was also on letrazole - a breast cancer drug, which increases the number of follicles. I don't know if this really did any good becase I ended up with eight follicles, which was brilliant, but only got four eggs, which was the same as last time. The difference was in the maturity and quality of the eggs.

I wouldn't have the letrazole again as I felt it gave me false hope, and also it made me feel like I was on a boat.

No - I'd never be put on the long protocol - I'd get no response at all. My first go was abandoned as I only had one follicle, and the buserelin made me feel like poo.

I would say in the protocol Ugur's suggested you've got the best of both worlds. Go for it! You're a bit better responder than me, so I would suggest booking for 21 days in case your embies go to blast - you can always change your flight for £20. Turkish Airlines seem the best - I went with easyJet for cheapness but our tickets were only £8 less than my friend's, and they had free food and drink.

Honestly, you'll wonder why you didn't go before once you're there. Try and hook up with someone going the same time. The hotels generally have wireless access too, so you can log on while you're there. 

Short protocol is a lot easier on the body, as kat says. And a lot less stressful because of that and the shorter time you're actually on the drugs.
Dr Tesken said he would reduce my drugs - a popular technique - after a few days, if I was responding well. But I didn't respond well enough to do that. You should do given your history.

xxxxxxx


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2007)

Kitykat -   so sorry to hear your news - it's certainly not a good week for the PR thread.  I'm thinking of you and DH at this time - it never gets any easier, does it?  It's good that you've got a plan, I've always found that helps.  The ARGC really do have a good results.  It was a toss up between them and ACU UCH for my first cycle when we lived in the UK and we went with UCH. I would have used them again if we hadn't moved to HK.

Mira - Have you doneany control/sneaky tests this morning  

What time does Merse go under?  I hope it all goes well for her


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Yes Emma, of course! Now I've started I can't stop! It was a most definite negative, so if I do get anything positive it's a positive from now on. I used first morning wee today. Funny, I would have thought the trigger shot would still be in my system?
But then, it's been 11 days since the trigger so maybe not.
I was kinda hoping it would be so I could have ONE positive test at least!
Sigh.

It should be pretty early for Merse to go under - you should still be awake when the news comes! I've got all my limbs crossed here.

How are you this morning? Is DH off work or has he gone back in?

xxxxxxx


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2007)

oh no, you've got the POAS addiction.  Will you be doing them every day until test day now?  I've got everything crossed for you    we really need some good news on this thread.

DH at work today but we met him for lunch.  Felt a bit sad this morning but I guess that's natural.  I'm getting a few AF type pains but nothing really painful and still no sign of a bleed.  I wish it would hurry up, I'm wearing a sanitary towel all the time just in case I have a sudden gush and I really hate them.  I'm not sure I can use tampax whilst waiting for a M/C.  My boobs are also still a little sore and I'm concerned that nothings going to happen and I'll have to go in for a D&C.  I have to phone the clinic if no bleed by next Tuesday.  I'm thinking some jiggy jiggy with DH will help but with my parents in the next bedroom I just can't get in the mood.  They go back to the UK in a couple of days so will jump on DH then


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Yup - a fully paid-up member of the POAS AA! I'm trying to conquer my fear of them - I should NEVER have used the Clearblue with the words on it last time - I can still SEE the words Not Pregnant when DH showed it to me.
I'm thinking of going into town and getting some more expensive tests, actually, as everyone sems to say the cheapo ones from eBay are rubbish.
But mine say they detect 10iu, which have got to be good, n'est pas?
God, I dunno.

No, don't use a tampax just in case. I know it's fairly certain and all that, but you can't be 100 per cent sure of a bleed. DH, however, is a good idea! Mine objected to being treated like Dynorod when I was desperate for AF before Turkey!   With any luck at all I won't have another for eight months. But I somehow doubt it. It doesn't matter how well this cycle went I still feel doomed to failure somehow.

xxxxxx


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## jo100 (Jan 6, 2006)

Ouch! That menogon sounds painful!!!!!    

Miranda - you are the Oracle!!!!  I have to say I'm really impressed with Ugur replying - I emailed loads of other clinics on Sunday too and haven't heard back from any of them....  Really interesting what you say about the SP too - I did try and suggest this to Newcastle about a year ago and they just dismissed it and said I didn't need to go on the SP!  Honestly I wonder how they've even got just a 25% sucess rate with the attitude they have!  

And try and stay positive, I know it's hard when you've had so much disappointment but you have a damn good chance so keep on believing!!!! 

Emma - god it sounds absolutely awful that you're having to wish for af to appear.... and it's completely normal to feel sad, I can't believe how strong you seem about it all.

jo xxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

One of the things that really impressed me is people at the clinic knowing who you are. Romina would take my file out as soon as she saw me and I never waited long to see the consultant, who was familiar with my case - there was no endless explaining every time I had a scan.

The communication thing is one of the most stressful things about tx, so I was so relieved to have that.

Yeah, the negativity comes in waves - you just wish they'd knock you out for the whole second week.

xxxxx


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2007)

Mira - You have 2 grade 1 embies on board....you have as good a chance as everyone else   

Jo - Am trying to be strong but I'm hurting inside.  I just don't want this IF to beat me.  What's getting me through is thinking of our frosties......I want to have all 4 defrosted and put back with assisted hatching.....I'll be the first PR with quads...well, if Rooz can have triplets!  I am concerned that they won't survive the defrost but I guess that's a risk you take.  Having 2 put back would be nice.  So it's all looking good for Turkey?  Mira should get commission.  You could eat kebabs until they come out of your ears...I love kebabs..mmmm.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Funnily enough, you have to search high and low for a decent kebab!

I was going to have four put back if I had them - why not? We all know how dicey this business is, so having four is bound to feel more hopeful.
I'd go for it, personally.
Yay, PR quads!
x


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## *Lollipop* (Feb 1, 2007)

Hi girlies,

Well got to ET......    , eventually PHEW!!!!...so here goes again....  , test day is also Halloween...well what did i expect after this cycle,.so come on Nutkins (dh's idea) stick around sweetie.xx 

PUPO Miranda -   You are very naughty   , although i know it is very tempting...some vibes coming yr way..    for Renee and Renata

PUPO Pammie - Hope you are well sweetie, have you succumbed too POAS   (Is that how you spell it) Hope you are well and still hanging in there...    for Earnie

Merse - Thinking of you, in dreamland somewhere...have a good recovery and    for lots of juicy eggs...xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Emma -   , thanks for all yr support sweetheart..i hope you are doing ok..it will take time but just look after yourself and hubby too...and get ready for yr next step... Also by the way I dont think Tampons are a good idea, I know on Gynae the nurses suggest pads to ladies having a M/C or after a D & C, I also have severe endo and they dont recommend you use tampons either. Take care sweetheart, thinking of you...xxxxxxxxxx

Kitykat -   , thinking of you...xxxxx

Hello to Laura, Nic, Jo, Swinny, Inc and Roozie and the other PR team

PUPO Gab.....xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Yay! Another PUPO lady to add to our brood!

Good luck for Hallowe'en, birdie - may Nutkins hang on tight!

xxxxxxxxx


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## linziloo (Aug 26, 2007)

Hi Ladies,

Gab, well done you are officially PUPO! Hope little Nutkins is nice and snuggled in now for the duration!   
I didn't know you weren't supposed to use tampons if you've got bad endo? I do 

Pam, how are you feeling? Pee'd on a stick yet, or are you waiting till test day?

Miranda, it will be the progesterone that's giving you AF symptoms, and its too early for pregnancy symptoms, so chill missus! We're all willing a BFP for you   

Merse, have you surfaced yet? Can't wait for your news   

Emma, hope you're ok. You seem to be really strong, and coping well. Hope AF arrives for you soon so that you can put this behind you and move on xxxxxx

Laura, are you going   yet on the pill? It sent me wappy. I couldn't sleep, and was a complete ***** one minute, then suicidal, then ok, then crying........! I think it may have been the DHEA too though. Hope you'll be stimming soon xxx

Kitykat, sorry for your bfn. Its so unfair. Have you thought of immunology testing? I'm going to have that next I think.

Hi everyone else 

I've been to ww this morning - haven't lost any weight  Oh well, I'm putting it down to stopping smoking. I've been snacking loads. Bought a lorry load of fruit to eat, so I'd better lose some next week 

Oh, question! - Any thoughts on what else I should be taking besides DHEA, pronatol vits, omega 3? I want to spend the next few weeks up till January getting as fit and healthy as possible, I'm hoping it will make a difference to my next (and maybe last) tx.

Linz xxxxxxxxxx


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## jo100 (Jan 6, 2006)

Hey Gab

Congratulations for making it to ET!!!  Good luck for Hallowe'en, hope more than ever the wicked witch stays away that night!

Why are you not supposed to use tampons with endo? I've not heard of that - I've got it in my womb, not severe but have grade 4 all over my bowel so would be interested to hear about this, as I always use tampons.

Emma that's great news about your frosties, it's a goal to look forward to.  And hey quadruplets sound great!!!

I don't eat meat so it would have to be a veggie kebab!!!  Not quite the same is it?

jo xx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Kittykat - so sorry to hear your news   .  I think it's a good idea to have a break and recover   

Miranda - when are you testing?  

Gabrielle and Pam - our pupo princesses - good luck...  

Laura -  looking forward to you ttc..??

Me - feeling strange... having ivf induction tomorrow.  DH needs to do his sperm sample as had 90% abnormal sperm.  And he was surprised when Geeta told him that he is drinking too much and he thought he was only a moderate... a few pints here and there, not every night... He didn't even cut his ciggies until we got a donor egg speech.  And at out first consultation (NHS) 4 yrs ago he sent me in  to have a consultation whilst he was reading his papers in the waiting room.  Didn't realise he was needed, too.  Now on what planet do some men live?


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Linz - I'm getting pregnancy symptoms too! The most striking of which is waking up absolutely boiling at night - last night was the worst.

Jo - I ate the same dish so many times, because I loved it - this partic restaurant did goat's cheese toasted on brown bread around a mountain of leaves with walnuts and sultanas and beansprouts - I'm dribbling thinking about it! I could go veggie again with no trouble. I haven't had any cow's cheese today and my sinuses aren't bad, so it may be that. We'll see... I just hope it isn't dog hair, as I cuddle my mutts all the time  

Inc - you're getting pre-tx jitters, I can tell! The surgeon and consultant were so surprised in Turkey when Pete insisted on being there for everything. But they were dead pleased too. I guess it's just not that usual! It takes a few txes for it to become clear to them - for Pete it was the first time I came out of the scan room stressed out because of bad news. He vowed to be there every time from then on.

xxxxxxx


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## pinklady (Jan 4, 2005)

Hi Ladies

I hope you don't mind me intruding.  I'm about to start my 2nd cycle of IVF, the 1st cycle only produced 2 eggs and resulted in BFN.  I didn't think there was much of a problem, but had a pre-treatment scan at the new clinic which show only 6 antral follicles (3 on left and 3 on the right) on cd8.  Does this mean I have poor ovarian reserve?  I'm 27 and my FSH is great @ 5.5 but that's not going to help if I haven't got enough eggs is it?

I'm not sure I understand what it all means, just hoping you might be able to shed some light on the situation.


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Hi there

I don't think that FSH is such a good indicator, bcs my flactuated from 2.3 to 10.9 when I was refused treatment to 8 and then 10 and 4 and so on.  Antral follicle count seems to be the most reliable predictor. Also AMH as it does not flactuate and it indicates your ovarian reserve.  
3 on each ovary is a low count especially for your age.  Having said that, your eggs are young and it's all about quality and not quantity. 

There was a girl at the ARGC - if you check high fsh thread at the argc who was given a donor egg speech at the UCH.  She did a donor egg cycle with her sister which didn't work.  She then went to the ARGC and achieved 3 good embies and got pregnant.  I think she was on max stims and also had ivig.  She was also 27.  I think bcs of your young age you may want to do max stimms and try to get as many eggs as possible.  There is no reason why you should not have a successful outcome.


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## pinklady (Jan 4, 2005)

Thanks for your reply, I didn't think 6 sounded good and the FSH clearly isn't a good indication of ovarian reserve.  I don't know what AMH is I'm afraid.

I'm waiting to hear from the consultant, if we are able to go ahead I'll be having either a higher dose of Menopur (only had 2amps last time) or change to gonal-f.  I've no idea what the difference is though, whether or not one works better than the other.

Is there a minimum number of antral follicles to be able to go ahead with IVF?  Is the number of antral follicles an indication of the maximum number of follicles you could ever hope for when stimming?

I'll check out the ARGC post you mentioned, thanks.


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

2 ampules is only 150 iu.  You should try a higher dose.  IN many clinics 450 is a max.  I was on 600 puragon as was the girl I mentioned in the previous post... Also it may be worthwhile trying a different protocol. Maybe a short protocol as opposed to long.  You don't say on what protocol you were.  The antral follicle count does give an indication as to how you are likely to respond...  I bet you can achieve at least 7 or 8 follicles with a higher dose... I would get a second opinion, too .  The two top clinics would be the ARGC and the LIster.  The UCH don't give people a chance if it's going to affect their stats so I would not try them.  

The best of luck for your next attempt.


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## pinklady (Jan 4, 2005)

Long protocol last time, and I'm starting the same again on 30/10.

Think I'll go ahead with this cycle if the stimms are increased to a much higher dose, otherwise I think I might get a 2nd opinion like you suggest.

Many thanks for your advice and good wishes.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Hi Pink!

Just as an indication, I am 35 with an FSH of 5, but my antral was 4-6 and my AMH was 0.69 (or 4.something depending which measurement you use). Any clinic worth their salt willwant that value as well, as your FSH and antral count don't match!

But this is the beginning of the road for you - don't think about donor eggs yet.
Two amps is ridiculously low - 150iu, compared to 450iu I was on on my last cycle.

AMH is anti mullerian hormone. Only a handful of clinics do it - the Lister in London does it for £57, or you can get a test on the net, but they don't tend to give you the actual value.

As Inc says, your eggs - even if there are only a few of them - are likely to be great quality, and it only takes one!

You don't have to have loads of eggs to get success - really you don't. Look at the ARGC, and the Lister, or if you're paying privately anyway I would recommend the Jinemed where I've just been, in Istanbul. They all offer great success rates for poor responders. 

Also, on the long protocol I only had one follicle - I have four on the short protocol. I would try that before having another shot on the LP, as it's not always good for poor responders.

Take heart - the show ain't over by a long chalk!

xxxxxxx


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## pinklady (Jan 4, 2005)

Thanks very much Miranda.

Need to talk to DH tonight and contact the clinic I think.  AMH has never been mentioned but I'm at Care Northampton so they probably don't do it.

The long protocol was mentioned before the pre-treatment scan (based on FSH alone) so consultant may recommend something different after these results.

Best wishes to you both


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Hi Girls
Feeling a bit down   After listening to the heartbeat last Fri with the doppler I now can't find it on 2 occasions.  I am dreading the worst. I can't see what would make it disappear if it was there before - apart from not being there now. I will have to go for a scan otherwise I will go insane. Any explanations girls? As for buying the damn thing I'd rather know sooner than turn up for a 12 week scan and be told the baby had died  
NW


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Oh Nicks - try not to worry! How reliable can something from eBay be? You said it took ages to find it first time, so if the baby had moved a bit it might easily be impossible for a home device to pick up.

Try again tomorrow after a sleep and book a scan to reassure yourself if you still can't find it.
But it's most likely to be the doppler failing to find it, surely?

Don't panic - I'll have a wee trawl round the net to see if there's anything on how reliable these things are.

Be back in a mo.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

On the one I've found it says it can detect the heartbeat as early as 10-12 weeks. Now you are 10 weeks, so it's not going to be that easy, is it?

Right - off to look for more info...

Chin up!

xxxxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

And in the small print it's 12 weeks, so...


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Hi Mirra 
Knew you would be there for me   got a scan organised for tomorrow.  I've read that it can be harder with a retroverted uterus (me) and that some days you might not find it depending on position. Hope all is OK tomorrow. Think I've upset my mum now she sounded worse than me. Will try and stay positive - can't change anything anyway. 
Hope you are coping Ok - fingers are so crossed for you  
You too Pammie  
And the Gabster now!    Did you say testing halloween?   Waited all year to use that smiley!
Merse - hope everything went well today - another PUPO lady soon!  
Kit - hope you are OK - glad you have your plan to put into action. ARGC sounds a good option as you have your accomm sorted - that's one of my main worries re going elsewhere.  
LB - hi pill chick  
Emma - you OK today hun.  Must be awful waiting for things to happen. Still you have your snow babies to look forward to and there is obviously potential there  - quads!  
Chat soon lovies
NW


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Oh, thank goodness - there you are! Thought you had gone off to cry and were ignoring us! It does say it's reliable at 12 weeks though - you're still early for that device, you know.

Has anyone heard from Merse? Getting worried about you, hen! Are you ok?

xxxxxxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Mirra - feel much better now, no point worrying if it might never happen!  
Been reading your diary - you mustn't do cat sh*t when you are preggers - well, wear gloves they say -  but good excuse to make DH deal with all animal sh*t! I had no probs with those e bay tests - 99p - they do work. Keep a negative one so you can compare when you get a faint line!  
Merse   
NW


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Nick - good decision to have a scan, methinks, which will be reassuring.  

Mir - you sound well and positive.  Keep it up girl.  

Hello to Pam and Gabbie -


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## Pamela39 (Apr 6, 2006)

Just a quicky tonight.

Nicki   .From Miras and your info it really does sound like its a great device from wk12 so i am not surprised it is not acurate at 10wks. Got everything crossed for you.

Welcome to the PUPO gang Gab & Nutkins, delighted that little embie made it.

Merse - hope you are ok and its only the sedatives that are keeping you quiet

Mira you are going to send yourself loopy testing this early . My test day is not till next Friday might be tempted a few days before but not this early. 

Jo I just rang the QE for an appointment. I had my initial tests done at CFL cos I live in Newcastle but just didn't like the place or my consultant. Then looked at the HFEA stats and the QE had better results. Having said all that I am moving clinic if I need to cycle again.

Goodnight everyone else. Sweet dreams

Pam x


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## odette (Nov 3, 2006)

Hi Girls

Been away from the boards for a while.

Going to have a rant! as I need to get some things off my chest. 

It's been tough for me these last few weeks and just couldn't keep up with the posts.   My mother is law died and it was hard for me to know that she never got to see our babies born (I never told her of our last few years with IVF attempts and last ectopic pregnancy as after losing our first baby we decided not to worry her). I thought how much she was loved by her 6 children and wondered if I would ever have that - children that would one day grieve me.

Then it was really hard at the funeral when my brother in law's partner was heavily pregnant and I was still barren.

Anyway then I got really depressed because I realised that two of my friends are pregnant, my cousin is just about to give birth, one sister in law is just about to give birth, another sister in law has just given birth. That's five women not to mention all the recent births that have been happening in the last year or two.   And I have to smile and be happy for them when inside I'm dying.

Also it's been two years since I was in hospital suffering from my first ectopic and October always makes me think of my little one that didn't make it.

I have to be sterilised at the end of the month because my last remainng tube is f.....d! and really this is the most unbearable existence I have known.  I try to be positive but to be frank it's all a front. I spend nights crying in the toilet for my husband not to see me and I tell everyone I'm fine because this is my problem. Everyday I get up and think, Here we go again, another day to get by..........

So I've had my rant now.  :

Miranda - Belated Birthday   been reading your posts - welcome back - keeping my fingers crossed for you. 

Kitykat - so sorry  honey.  

Laura - Hi, how's things?

Emma - Hugs to you 

Inconceivable - keep us posted with Greeta - I've got her on my list.

Nicki- Keep positive - I'm not sure where you are in your journey.

Merse - I'm crying with you, please be strong.

to anyone i've missed a big hello 

love to all of you -

odettex


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Odette, you HAVE to talk to your husband. I felt I couldn't, but he could tell I was changing - then it came to a head and he marched me to the doctor's to get help.

It will hurt him to know you've been hurting so much and not gone to him - and there's nothing pathetic about showing your feelings.

A year on from my deep depression and my DH finally understands that I'm not blaming him, but that I was hurting. He's come in to his own now. The rest of the world - well that's a different matter. But as long as I have DH and FF I won't go back to where I was then.

You cannot allow IF to corrode who you are, because you are lovely, and well worthy of loving - so try to care for yourself by letting others care for you - they really want to, but sometimes you have to show them how. You don't have to shoulder any of this on your own. If it seems like an impossible burden that's because it is, without help from others.

Of course, there's this site - I'd have gone mad without the support of the women on this site. But if you don't show your true feelings to your husband you're living half a life, and it's too damned scary living without their comprehension of your grief.
I've been there, and I was scared no one would understand - it's the reason I left trying ICSI so late, because it felt selfish and all about me. When I finally did open up they were astonished, frightened, worried... 

It's taken a long time for DH and my family to get it, but it's got easier with each time I've talked about it with them. I'm so glad I finally did open up about just how devastating all this is, and how frightening it is to see a future with no children. 

Don't cry in secret, Odette.


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Merse - where are you I'm worried?

Nicks - my friend had  doppler and could ' find the heart beat every time  until 14 weeks.... I don't think you need to worry just yet. Although I understand why you are of course... bu I have good feeling about your precious cargo.  

Mirra- oh perg symptoms fab!

Odette  -Sending you hugs.. this is ****, we are all dealing with what we don't have to.  

Been out with one of my best buds that no seen for 10 months.... ridiculous.. no reason just my daftness.  She was so sweet offering her eggs etc.  Peopl just want to help don't they but we push them away as don't want to acept we are incapable. Not taking her up on offer (yet) but lovely isnt it.

Love you all. XX


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Morning all

Oddette, just wanted to say that you need to speak to someone about how you feel so that you're not alone in this.  If you really don't want to talk to your DH what about a counsellor either through your clinic or GP?  I've arranged counselling for next week through my clinic and am seeing occupational health at work on Tuesday so explore if there are any avenues down which they can direct me.

We are all here for you on here too and if you need any time to talk, rant or just have someone there then please don't go through this alone.

Karen x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Beach! You have a name! Awww, hi Karen!

Well, I tested again, and negative again - I am getting HARDENED to this, I swear. Honestly, it's better than what I did last time, building all that tension up till the 14th day.
Every day I let a little more tension out, I reckon.

Merse - you're usually up and posting by this time, I do hope you're ok.

I didn't wake up boiling last night - hmmn. So my one really good symptom has gone for the minute. But it's darn cold now! My canna lily only just flowered and it's in the process of going that floppy way it does with the first frost.

xxxxxxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Miranda- yes I have a name, I do reveal it occasionally....isn't it cold out there this morning.... I've got the heating on the dry clothes but because I'm cleaning the bathroom and bedrooms sa we speak (just having a 5 min rest) I'm really warm...


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

oooh, lovely! We haven't got central heating, but with the electric radiators on it's toasty!

Got a guy calling round about solar power tomorrow - but there'll be no way we can afford it.

We're not having oil again, as it's soooo expensive to run.

xxxxxxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Was it a choice not to have central heating?  Suppose we take ours for granted most of the time like today.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

We can't afford it! There's no gas in the village, so we have no cheap way to do it - oil or solar are both very expensive to install.

Gas would be dead cheap - you can get that installed for less than £1,500. But it costs about £4,000 for oil and goodness knows how much for solar. There's electric boilers too, but they're a bit untried at the mo.

Plus the cost of oil is horrendous now.


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Hi girls sorry couldn't face comming on last night there were no eggs none!!!
On the right it was all endometriomas and nothing on the left all empty! They did IUI for some strange reason, just in case there was one floating around, but think my tubes are blocked and a lining of 5 and I think its a bit of a waste of time! But they said the sperm was one of the best they've seen so why not use it! Good job one of us is normal!!!
They spoke about putting me on the pill or zoladex for a few months then trying again or donor eggs but we just haven't got any more money thats the sad thing they seem to forget its £5,000 a go!!
sorry for the me post but think I'm entitled today!!
Lol to all xxxxxxxxxxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Merse- so sorry to hear that, we were wondering why you hadn't been on. Thinking of you both.  Make sure you give each other lots of love and take time to grieve and talk x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Oh Merse - I felt something like that had happened.

Did you talk it over with DH? What does he think you should do?

What a kick in the stomach. What do you feel about donor eggs? 

As for the money, yeah, it's just impossible. Pete's always said we would sell the house to pay for more tx but I always think - great, I'd be left with no bloody house and no bloody kids either! AND the prospect of paying rent for the rest of my days.

Have they told you to treat this as a 2WW? 

xxxxxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

We haven't really discussed what to do next we'll wait till after our follow up appointment. I have to use cyclogest but its stupid really just clutching at straws and I'm certainly not living like a nun for two weeks I'm just getting back to normal!
It would be lovely to live near each other wouldn't it would live to pop round for a cup of tea, chat and a cry with people who actually know how you feel!!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Merse- is there a group on here that meet?  I'm meeting up with the Yorkie girls this weekend and thought there might be something in your area arranged?


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## jo100 (Jan 6, 2006)

Morning guys

Merse, so sorry to hear your news, I know how devastating it is to get to a scan and find nothing there.  I often think that the luckier ones in this IVF business are the ones who respond well, as they have no idea of the stress that just getting to different stages in the cycle can cause and of the despair that abandoning the cycle can bring.  Sending you a big hug and I'm thinking of you.

Odette - we haven't 'met' but I felt so sad when I read your post.  It's just hideous how IF can be so all-encompassing and overwhelming.  It sounds like you really need some help hon, talk to your hubby and get an appt with your GP, you shouldn't have to deal with these feelings on your own.

God Miranda I'm feeling nervous/excited for you, I dread to think how you're feeling.  I keep on seeing your ticker go down and thinking how close it's getting to the big day!  

Pam - funnily enough I rang the QE yesterday too, they do about 6 amps of Menopur but the nurse I spoke to said Mr Aird had ordered in Puregon for one of his private patients who didn't respond well on Menopur, I'd need to discuss it with him at a consultation. She also interestingly said that if I could get my GP to refer me to him the consultation would be free and not £190.   But I'm not sure how I could get my GP to do that as I've used up all my NHS goes....  Any ideas how I can blag this girls?

Rang up a few other clinics in the North East, some use Puregon, some use more Menopur so it would be a tricky decision deciding which one to use. Should I give Puregon a chance as I've never used it before or should I increase the dosage of Menopur as I normally get about 3/4 eggs on that with just 4 amps? Also had about 3 emails from Ugur in Jinemad about going there.....  arrrrgh I'm indecisive at the best of times, how can I possibly make a decision on such a big issue??!! 

jo xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Gawd yes! I'm only in the next county though. Perhaps we can meet in Poole or something?

I don't know which part of hants you are though - you could be absolutely miles away.

xxxxxxx

Jo - make an appt with your GP today and see how they react - you can only ask!


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## Swinny (Jul 10, 2007)

Hiya Girls 

I am sorry that I haven’t been around all week, its been a bit manic.

Haven’t had chance to read through everything that I’ve missed but I just wanted to say hello and hope you’re all ok.

Merse – I am so sorry honey. You must be devastated. I wish there were words of comfort that I could offer which would cheer you up but as I know all too well there really aren’t. I just want you to know that I am thinking about you and sending you a massive 

Mirra – Hope you’re ok and not going too barmy in your 2ww. 

Odette – I am sorry that you’re feeling so low. I have had ectopics too so I know what you mean about anniversaries. I often find myself daydreaming about how old my babies that never made it would be and what they would look like. You’re not on your own babes, its harsh. Don’t beat yourself up about feeling low and don’t hide it away from DH as you’ll probably find that he feels the same. Take care of you hun  

Pam – When is official test date??  

Jo - Yeah know what you mean about good responders, my friend is in her 2ww now and she has developed OHSS as she responded so much. I am hoping to god that it turns out ok for her. 

Love to everyone else

Sarah xx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Thanks Sarah!
Mir Poole is about an hour away from me!! I've scrabbed xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

So I see! I'm just looking at my letters...

Yeah, I half-remembered you being near Basingstoke, near Rooz - bum!

Hi Sarah! My official test date is 15 days after EC, but I'm testing every day, to try and numb myself to it.
I must go into town and get some proper tests for Sunday and Monday.

Gosh it's busy this morning! I felt abandoned last night - no one was about!

xxxxxxxxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Hi all!
Merse - am so sorry hun, you must be devastated especially as those endometriomas pretended to be follicles. Big hugs to you and your DH.   Its so hard and so unfair  
Odette - good to hear from you. Sorry its all a bit hard at the moment. Myabe talking to a counsellor would help - at least they involve your other half and get you talking about stuff - he's probably feeling as bad as you but they don't always show it   
Pam - hope the 2WW is going ok and that you really don't need to be making appts for next time.   Saying that plan B is what always kept me going  
Mirra - keep positive. My line was so faint on d14 post ov that I really don't think it would have been there any earlier. We have that heating prob in our holiday cottage - no gas; so we've looked at oil, LPG, storage heaters etc. We are thinking about electric boiler as they are v cheap to install even though might be slightly more to run. We aren't there very much though so saving 3 grand on installation would benefit us for years. Not so ideal for the family home though  
LB - how are you chick. Glad you had a good night out   How are the pill nipples  
Beach - hi there! Let us know how you get on with the counselling  
Swinny - Hi there - good to hear from you!  
Jo - I expect it would be worth just trying a higher dose at your stage whether it be menopur or puregon   Not sure about the GP referral but he should be able to write you a referral letter if you ask. If the clinic say they won't charge you this way then go for it. 
emma   
Gab  
Inc -  
Hi everyone else  
Off for a scan at 1130 - feels like my whole life is hanging in the balance  
NW


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Yay! Great that you're getting a scan so quickly! That'll put your mind at rest.

Hmmmn, my positivity comes and goes - it's hard to keep my end up really. But we'll see - there's no reason why it shouldn't have worked.

What test did you use, Nicks?

xx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Good luck Nicks   xxx
Mir I think the best tests are clear blue but you have to wait till test day for those!!! Get scrabbing it will take your mind of it!! xxxxxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

I used cheap e bay sticks and I had a clearblue too - the cross was very faint - just enough for you to think you've imagined it! If you have lots of cheap tests though you will just see it get darker every day!    
Nicks


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I've scrabbed!

Well it would have been nice to see what a positive test looked like, but I didn't get them early enough!
Maybe I will soon.
x


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2007)

Oh Merse -   I've been thinking about you all day today wondering how you go on.  I know there's probably nothing I can do to make you feel better but I am thinking of you.  If you want to get away from it all you can come and visit me in HK and we can have a good yarn over a few bottles of wine about IF and how bloody unfair it is.  I think what the others have said about counselling is a good idea but I know it's a very personal choice.  We're here for you whatever you decide to do   

Nicks -   for scan.  I've read somewhere that dopplers aren't a good idea as you can't always detect the heartbeat.  Am sure all will be fine and your beanie will be waving at you at your scan   

Mirra - POAS lady - I was testing negative 11 & 12 dpo so it's way too early to see anything yet.  Has your ovary pain gone now?

Beach -   for your follow up tomorrow.  Have you got a list of questions planned?

PUPO ladies - Pammie & Gab -   

Hi to everyone else 

Still no bleed my end...and boobies are sore..not as sore as last week but still sore. I somehow don't think this little embie is gonna come out naturally and I'll have to seek intervention.  Am tempted to POAS to see if any hcg is in my system but I don't want to waste the money or torture myself.  

xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Ovary pain has pretty much gone - it flares when I exert myself. Think I'm going to walk the dogs up over the hill today - it's such a bright day - but can't tear myself away from the computer! Then at least I'll feel something - it's better than feeling nothing!

Hope it doesn't come to a D&C Emma - that would really rub salt in the wound. I'm sure it just takes a bit of time - hang on in there.  

Right - must get going or I'll miss the sunshine.  I know I'll feel better if I just get on with it!

xxxxxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Thanx Emma would love to come and visit and would love the wine too!!
Have you had a scan at all? When I had both my miscarriages they scanned me to check what was going on? The first happened naturally but the second needed an ERPC. 
Mir enjoy your walk would love to take my boy out but my tummy is too sore!
I'm just going from bed to computer to the kettle and thats it! My SIL just texted to see if she could come round but I just want to be on my own so I've put her off, feel bad as shes been great but just want my own space!!
xxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

New home this way...

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=117268.0

N x


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