# Foster to adopt -any horror stories?



## Bluebell261

Evening all,

We attended an info evening last night and are now waiting to be linked to either a LA or VA.

They talked briefly about fostering to adopt which in principle sounds fantastic. 

However, my husband is very wary of the idea of being linked to a baby, forming a bond and then the babe returning to their birth family x months later.

Has this ever happened to anyone? How would you deal with that?

Can I also ask for anyone who has gone down this route, how is the process different?  What I mean is in terms of stage 1 and 2 with the adoption process. Are the time guidelines similar to be approved?

Thanks in advance, this is all very new to us, but I am learning with your help through reading through the forum.

Thank you 😄


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## Lindoprincess

Sorry but yes. A friend of mine adopted a little boy, that went fine, he was relinquished. Then his sister came up so my friend was over the moon and did foster to adopt - after 18 months the little girl was returned to birth mother who it seems had sort of got her act together. Friend then went on to adopt another little girl but will have to deal with a very tricky convo later on as to why one child is back with birth mum and he little boy isn't. She is not looking forward to dealing with it all. It hurt her terribly and took a lot of courage to move past. I don't think it happens lots but it does happen.


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## becs40

Hi bluebell,
The approval process for us was exactly the same we were just duel approved at panel.
In regards to how you would cope I dont know. We always said we would be able to,we've been through a lot and come through it, yes it would be hard but we could do it. For various reasons we were linked with our lo when he was just a couple of months old. Things didn't go to plan for various reasons in that he wasn't actually placed with us until 4 months later once a placement order was issued. During that time we went through complete turmoil of emotions of was this actually going to happen and that was bad enough. Once lo was placed though I honestly don't know what would happen if things went the other way, we would be completely devastated and I don't think we could put ourselves through anything else after that.
One thing to keep in mind though is that the risks are much less in straight forward adoption but not non existent. A child can go back to bp's or relative at any stage before the adoption order is issued. It is rare after placement but there was a case very recently where a 6 month old I think had been placed with adopters and was with them 15 months I think before they applied for adoption order, at that hearing it was contested by birth father and the child was removed and placed with a paternal aunt. As I say rare but not impossible.


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## GERTIE179

Hi,

There's a FF'r on here who had the baby returned and if I can find the thread I will bump it up.

The case that Becs talks of was where the Birth father was actually different to who Birth mum declared to SSs and in LOs birth certificate and it wasn't queried by social services despite the LO having a very obvious heritage difference. Other than this one case, I don't think there's ever been a child placed back into a Birth family.

Concurrency and FTA do have a greater risk and the general thought is its in the childs interests ie we as adults should know the risk and be able to cope with the loss. Ultimately these children go through that loss and have no control over it. It's a huge fear though like Becs I thought I'd be able to cope if we had that option but after my LO came home I just could never comprehend giving him to anyone else.

X


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## Bluebell261

Thanks all for your responses.. It's difinitely food for thought.

Gertie if you could find the other thread I would be very grateful X


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## superal

YEP!!  we were the first couple in England to have a baby returned to her BPS, VERY very hard to deal with and I still think of her often and this is nearly 15 years ago.  Even the straight forward placements they think will stay don't so just go into it with your eyes wide open. Good luck X


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## Bluebell261

Sorry to hear your story Superal. 

I see from your signature you have 2 lo's so glad things worked out for you in the end, I can't begin to think about the heartbreak you went through. 

I didn't realise fostering for adoption had been around for 15 years, for some reason I thought it was new 😳


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## watakerfuffle

Foster to adopt is new, my LA started doing it in 2014. Previously it was called concurrency. There are differences between the two I believe. I'm another one that has done foster to adopt very recently, from my own experiences I can highly recommend it but know it doesn't always go as smoothly for others as it has for us!


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## superal

It was called concurrency as Watkerfufle has pointed out but they are the same thing! I don't think there are many if any differnce's between the 2??  Yes I went on to successfully adopt 2 children, we had adopted our son before we did concurrency and we adopted our daughter a year later after baby "S" was returned to her bps so in the end it all worked out for us. X


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## superal

Sorry if my post seems a little harsh to some who may read what I had previously put...........it is not meant to be little or upset anyone but merely pointing out this thread was about any horror stories and hence my reply.........apologies if this offends anyone. X


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## Miny Moo

The other thing to think about as well is that with foster to adopt there could be regular on going contact with BF until a placement order is in place.


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## watakerfuffle

I don't know how concurrency worked but my LA said that the Foster to Adopt process was slightly different. No idea of the specifics though but they do appear to be the same thing


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## Bluebell261

Your post didn't sound harsh at all Superal- thanks for your honesty. As you said I asked about horror stories... I'm trying to give DH the whole picture. 

Miny moo - regular contact with BP is something to think / worry about. I'd be concerned by regularly having contact with you if adoption did go ahead they would know exactly what you looked like if you were to bump into them after the adoption. Can anyone give any further details as to how contact is managed so that its 'safe' for want of a better word, for those involved? 

Thanks for all the responses, it's great to hear how F2A actually works so it gives others such as myself a rounded view. 

Thanks again


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## Sun Flower

Hi
we were offered a foster to adopt placement for a baby last year (sibling of our LO) for various reasons we turned it down. It was mostly to do with the fact our Lo had only been in placement for 3 months with us!! it was way too soon. However, we were told if we went ahead that there is on-going contact with birth family, I have heard of 3 times per week in some cases. There is always the risk of baby returning to birth family (sometimes relatives can pop up, not just birth mother / father) and it can drag on for a long time with court dates, assessments etc.. so the baby would be well established within your family and very attached to you by this time. Also we were warned about medical issues, taking a new born or young baby has risks as no official adoption medical is done until the placement order is granted and baby is approved for adoption (which can be 6 months) so there is health uncertainity too. Lots to think about, it sounds wonderful on paper and for some it works out great but for others it is heart breaking.
good luck what ever you decide x


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## Bluebell261

Thanks mummy sunflower.

It certainly it a lot to take in... LA/VA haven't contacted us yet so still time to decide.

I didn't realise full health checks are not done until post adoption approval. That's somewhat a worry.

It's a complete mine field!!


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## happypenguin

Our LO was around 8 weeks old when the Adoption Medical was done so that's not entirely true. There was no Placement Order until much, much later.


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## happypenguin

I will say that the point of Concurrent Care & Foster To Adopt is to provide a safe, loving home for the baby until the point at which the courts decide on their future. There is a very high liklihood that there will be a Plan Of Adoption and for the baby that means never having to be moved from that environment.
Yes, you form really secure attachments and deal with uncertainty but that's for US as adults to manage.

These schemes are about what is best for baby and as long as you remember that, the process is superb


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## Bluebell261

Thanks Happy Penguin X


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## Thepinklady

I don't often post but felt compelled to here. Happy penguin thank you for your post it is a timely reminder to me. We are in the middle of a concurrent placement which has a lot of uncertainty about it but your post reminded me today why we went down this road, for the absolute best for the child. We are the adults and I know that we can deal with the emotions and upset but a little baby shouldn't have to. For now we are just enjoying having an opportunity to care for a small baby and enjoy the beautiful smiles and giggles that brings. I do think you have to be emotionally strong and have a strong belief in what you are doing to get through it. It is not a case of choose this route to get a young baby. You need to choose it because you truly believe it is the right way forward for the children, whatever the outcome!


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## happypenguin

Great words Thepinklady,
We also dealt with a lot of uncertainty in our placement and it times it was difficult but we did exactly what you are doing, enjoyed the wonder of watching a baby grow and giggle.
There was, at times, a very real chance that he may have been returned into the family but we surprised ourselves by how much we believed in the process and would have supported that decision (despite being incredibly attached and totally in love with him!)

I wish you every bit of luck in the world with your placement -PM me if you need to chat


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## happypenguin

Bluebell - regarding keeping Contact 'safe'
For us the only details shared with Birth Parents was our first names. Everything else was very, very well protected (including any necessary paperwork)
Contact took place in a supervised Contact Centre and outside of the room there was a lot of care taken so that we were never together ie Parents went through to the room then I would call the centre from down the road and only approach when they were inside etc

Obviously we met during every contact session so they know what I look like however I don't feel threatened by that. It was far outweighed by the fact that I know what THEY look like and so in the future (if it's appropriate) I can tell LO that he has his birth mum's smile or he is tall like his Birth Dad etc. I also got to know lots of tiny facts about them too. Favourite things, family history....

Keep asking your questions so that you have every scrap of info you need for your decision & good luck


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## AoC

Well said thepinklady and happypenguin.

It's all about motivation, I think. If you go into it BECAUSE it's a chance to have a tiny baby and only for that, then you're setting yourself up for stress and heartache. If you go into it because it's the best thing for the child, and are prepared to support the long-term plan for them, whether it be adoption with you or placement with birth gran or aunty, or return to birth mother, then you'll shine. 

I thought this site was useful:-

http://babyfirstadoption.org/babyfirst-adoption/

"If the court decides that the child can return home, Concurrent Carers have the satisfaction of knowing that they have put the child's needs first and given the child love and security when they most needed it."

/links


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## becs40

Some very eloquent posts from happy penguin and pinklady. I think it's so easy to get caught up in the dream that this is a baby who ss have decided shall be adopted and therefore that's what will happen rather than focussing on the fact you're doing it for the child and the risks are very real.


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## Bluebell261

Thanks Happy penguin, pink lady and AOC.

I have been pondering all day over your posts and have come to this conclusion in my mind- 

With adoption, the child/ baby is certain of being placed with you (once matched/panel etc) so you know their best interests are going to well looked after because that means a life with you along with all the things you can do to provide a safe, loving environment for them. It's like the conclusion has been made their life would be better with you than BP.

Whereas with fostering for adoption you have to believe that the best interests of the child would be for the child to go back to their birth parents which is the opposite of adoption (see above) and against all instincts that the life you can provide would be safer / more secure life / etc.

Does that make sense? It does within my mind...

The way I am seeing it at the moment is that yes it's likely any child placed with you is likely to be younger than if you go down the normal adoption route (which is a major draw), however, another big advantage is that you started the journey with the child much sooner, meaning less moving around / upset for the child and they will know when they grow up that you were there for them from day one whatever the outcome, I.e back to BP or not. 

I'm still trying to get things clear in my mind which option we could deal with the best, adoption feels so liberating especially after years of uncertainty and loss around fertility treatment so it's a bit of the unknown in terms of how you would cope with any further loss as is the risk with fostering for adoption.

I'm talking as if we have the go ahead to proceed, we've only been to an info evening (!), the LA or VA haven't even been in touch yet, but I'm a textbook Virgo, wanting to plan things / get things straight in my mind etc. 

Thanks for all your posts everyone, I hope I haven't offeneded anyone with that I have said above, it's just the way I am comparing adoption and fostering for adoption in my mind and trying to figure out which is the road for us. 

Thanks again

Xx


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## AoC

I think you're exactly right.  I read an article somewhere (can't find it now) that essentially said that certainly in concurrency everyone's aim was to try and bring about a return to the birth family, but if that couldn't happen, the child's moves would have been minimised.  

Good luck with your decision!  I think there many things in favour of either choice.


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## Bluebell261

Thanks AOC for the link, it's a really useful website that I have book marked, thank you!


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## becs40

Sorry bluebell it's not quite as you've said for foster to adopt, as AoC says that is how it is with concurrency. With foster to adopt the LA have decided that adoption is the plan and in their eyes the likely outcome but obviously that is down to the courts to decide so essentially with f2a the LA will be making the case for removal rather than actually working to reunite the child with bp's. Does that name sense? It took me months to get my head round the difference between f2a and concurrency!


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## happypenguin

As becs says f2a begins a little further down the line than concurrency and so the risks are/can be somewhat less (but risks just the same)

We had to have a belief (and we do) that every child should be with their birth family while also recognising that this is probably not possible given the likely history of a child placed in concurrency or f2a. 

Mainstream adoption comes with it's own set of 'risks' and you can explore these in lots of detail in the posts on the board

Either way, you choose to be as selfless as you can in order to create the best life for the child however they find you.

I feel quite excited for you at the start of your journey and hope that you can find your place within this wonderfully crazy world of adoption


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## watakerfuffle

As becs40 says there is definitely a difference between concurrency and foster to adopt. With Concurrency the official  plan is for the child or children to be returned to birth parents. However they recognise that is unlikely due to known factors about BF and arrange for a concurrent foster placement, which will progress to adoption if an AO is granted. With Fostering to Adopt the  plan is for adoption but BF is contesting and the case is still progressing through the courts. Fostering to Adopt is less risky but there are still risks.


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## Thepinklady

I echo beds last comment. Question you la of va carefully. Do they do F2a or a unique concurrency programme. As Becc said F2a seems to me to be a caae of the las have more or less decided the best interests of the child is adoption but there is still courts and legal stuff to wade through which can take a while but much more certain to lead to adoption. 

Cuncurrency on the other hand is much less certain. In my project the birth parents are receiving a very intense level of support, training and assessment in order to facilitate reunification. Reunification is the active plan. However still even with all this support there is a likelihood the parents will not succeed hence why concurrent route was planned for the child to limited potential moves. 

Something you said bluebell about adoption as liberating after failed cycles etc, something that I did not expect to effect me was the inability to announce publicly to the world that we have an addition to our family. After years of hearing baby announcements, reading them on ******** etc I am still no where near in a position to make that announcement because we are not parents as yet. When we meet people out and about people say "oh I did not know" and then you have to explain no we are fostering and I feel I have to put in the warning every time.  It I'll be 6-12 months before we may or may not make that announcement. This is only a small thing and something I am strong enough to cope with but could be something that you want to consider, 

In a nutshell on our training the trainer described adoption as absolute certainty when they were placed with you. F2a more like 97-99% and with concurrency 85-92%. This may help you get your head around the differences.


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## Bluebell261

Thanks for all your responses and explaining the difference between concurrency and f2a- it makes sense to me now.

We've had our letter this morning to say we have been linked with a LA and they would be in touch soon.. Fingers crossed we can arrange an initial visit soon.

Thanks for sharing your experiences and thoughts and ideas with me, it's certainly helping me to build a complete picture of the options available. I do really appreciate it.

I must post in the adoption buddies thread, I read 13 pages at the weekend and then life took over and I haven't had time to catch up since.

Have a great day everyone, speak soon. 

Xx


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## AoC

You know, I think this is the best thread I've seen on F2A and concurrency, the pros and cons and differences.  V impressive.


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## Flash123

I agree aoc. Extremely subjective and informed yet led by people's heartfelt experiences. Very interesting reading indeed.


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## -x-Lolly-x-

Agreed, it's highlighted many possible issues, explained unknowns and underpinned the ethos of these schemes. Very interesting and thank you guys for sharing. Good luck to all


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## Wyxie

I would add to this thread is that from my experience of working in family law.  Cases are often not as cut and dry as SS believe or will lead you to believe, and all it takes is one relative to come along and prove themselves "good enough" at parenting for a child to go back to birth family, often with ongoing contact with birth parents.  Whether you're fostering through concurrency or foster to adopt, having to relinquish a child you've come to love as your own to care that is hopefully "good enough" to meet their basic needs could be extremely difficult to cope with.  Legally the birth family don't have to prove that their parenting would be better for the child than yours, merely that it would be adequate, and often this really is only barely.

I can see huge long term advantages to children who do end up being adopted, the reduction in the trauma they will suffer could have massive life long benefits, and I have a huge amount of respect for people who can offer this for all the right reasons.  But I think this idea is sometimes being miss sold to potential adopters by Social Services.  As foster carers, which is what you would be, you need to go into it with eyes wide open that regardless of what Social Services say there is absolutely no such thing as a clear cut case.  Even people who have had child after child after child removed can end up being given another chance if they manage to come off drugs for a few months and get rid of an inappropriate boyfriend (it's seldom long lived, and most do end up back in care further down the line), or the previously unmentioned relative can pop up and put themselves forward as a carer, and be assessed as suitable.

All the best whatever you decide,

Wyxie xx


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## happypenguin

Hi Wyxie
Great input & food for thought for some.

I can say, for us, we were extremely well informed by SS and guided through the risks so I know in our LA at least that there is no wool being pulled over eyes. I would hope that's the case elsewhere too because you really need a clear vision.

I can agree with the details about a birth family member being "good enough" as this is something we needed to manage emotionally. There were some very deep conversatioms in our house about that phrase when we were getting ready for LO to return to the family (obviously that didn't happen in the end) but I suppose any birth family pitted against the perfect possible adoptive placement would rarely win in a battle so it's only fair that they are provided with their own goalposts outside of that.

In terms of 'no such thing as a clear case' I wholeheartedly agree. When LO was placed we were on track for a pretty fast and simple turnaround to adoption and that was not what happened It took twists amd turns in every direction! 
Would I change it? Not one second of it - every delay was a chance to get to know BPs better, to umderstand LOs background etc
Would I do it again? Absolutely!!!!


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## happypenguin

Aoc, thank you for your link a page or so back. Very imformative reading


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## Bluebell261

I'm so pleased I started this thread as it seems to not only have given me some invaluable advice, but has also helped others too.

Thanks to everyone who shared their own personal experience or gave advice- it's much appreciated.

Have a great day everyone Xx


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## SWGirl

Hi all,

Hope you all don't mind me jumping onto this thread late with my thoughts.  My view is that that concurrent schemes / fostering to adopt is ideal for the little ones where language cannot be used to explain the process that they are going through in terms of being removed from birth family and placed in care ready for adoption.  I personally wish this was the only method used for newborns in particular but in fact any age up to three or four where the lack of language / understanding causes the process to be even more confusing for those little minds.  I know that for prospective adopters there is greater risk placed on the placement falling through but I think the advantages outweigh the risks (in many cases advantages that last a lifetime).

My views on this are influenced by a few different factors:

1).  The fact that I have seen first hand extreme separation anxiety in my birth child (aged nearly two now).  I regularly left my child with my partner for a few hours a week from when he was just 6 weeks old and he was fine with my partner.  However,  when my son was nine months old, we had to leave him for the first time with his grandmothers on a couple of occasions in order that we could undertake fostering training days together.  My son quickly became completely inconsolable and I had to abandon some of the training as one of the grandmothers became so concerned and I had to return to undertake the training alone when my partner could look after him.  I then discovered that 9 to 18 months is the typical age range for separation anxiety,  a normal part of development.  My son was probably very vocal about it as we had never previously ignored his cries ever.  I see that many handovers between foster carers and adopters is between these ages where the separation anxiety is strongest and where it is a normal part of development and that alone I find upsetting to think about.

2).  On the foster carers training courses we covered attachment theory (including how my sons distress was a positive sign that my son was securely attached to us).  I became very interested in the subject of attachment.  It was explained that for children that are removed from their carers (that includes foster carers that have become their primary carers),  even though the child may be too young to later remember the actual event or the people or faces,  they often will carry with them the fear of abandonment / trauma of that event forever.  The childs brain is rapidly forming in those first two years and making connections etc as it grows.  

3). We are purely fostering at the moment and are not considering adoption at all and for this reason I have discussed with my partner that I cannot see myself agreeing to accept any babies or toddlers for placements.  I'm not saying that I wouldn't get as attached to a six year old that I fostered but at least the language would be there to explain what was happening.  I really believe the concurrent planning / fostering to adopt is the best thing for the really little ones without the language.  I think that the shock / trauma factor for the child can be removed in this way.  

4). At a number of our training sessions,  the subject of 'becoming too attached to the child that may then be adopted / returned to birth parents'.  Some experienced foster carers (that did care for very young babies) explained that it's important to become attached to them.  They need to be attached to their carers,  even temporary carers,  to feel secure and to be able to function properly.  Good attachments in childhood allow children to have secure relationships with others later in life.  The foster carers explained that it was part of the job of caring for the child to become attached.  They also explained that for anyone that had birth children / adopted children etc,  having a foster child move on from your care,  even one you are very very attached to is very different to having your birth child or adopted child taken away because you are prepared for it so the shock factor is not there.  Nobody is going to storm into your house and snatch the child away,  you are prepared in advance for a possible departure.  I suppose for concurrent planning you would need to really enter the mind of a foster carer for the initial stages.

I hope I've made some sense with all the points I've mentioned above.


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## SWGirl

I suppose one thing to consider is that some foster carers look after one tiny baby after another and whilst it is upsetting for them when the child leaves,  it does not have such a profound effect on them as the effects on a small confused child.  I know that sounds a little strange as most people think that the child forgets whereas the adult remembers but you can see from reading the stories in the adoption area that children carry thought processes with them long after the events have occurred.  I think the developed adult mind is better able to process traumatic events and recover because all the 'wiring' is already done.  That's why I like the idea of concurrent foster to adopt so much.  I think it puts the risk of trauma mainly with the adult (who is better able to manage that trauma and cope).  I really think that removal of a primary carer at critical times in a Childs development / brain development can (unnecessarily if concurrency can be achieved) leave the child with longstanding concerns / worries.  I know that all children are different and some children cope far better than others in the same situations but my son (who I have no concerns about at all developmentally,  behaviourally, socially etc) is someone that I think would not have coped at all well if removed from me anytime from a few months old to now (I think his poor grandparents would agree).


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## becs40

I think they're valid points SW girl but the main thing you've forgotten here is that the "adults" doing foster to adopt/ concurrent care are not foster carers going into it with the knowledge that they will be moving the child on. Invariably they are adults who have endured an awful lot to get to the point of adoption and longing for a family of their own. They have usually had to deal with the loss of their own fertility meaning the grief that goes with that. 
To then place every single newborn baby with these adults would just be cruel beyond belief when so many of these babies will be returned to their birth families.
The current system I believe is the right one where newborns with a high chance of going on to adoption are placed with such carers and others where there is much more uncertainty go to foster carers who will give them the start in life they need but are also doing it in the full knowledge that the child will NEVER be staying forever. It's entirely different going into it with that expectation.


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## SWGirl

I completely agree with you Becs40 that only children that are extremely unlikely to be returned to their birth families should go under the foster to adopt plan.  I think there are a lot of babies being placed with standard foster carers though that fall into the category of being extremely unlikely to return to their birth families.  I do completely agree with what you say though.


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## SWGirl

Also,  with standard fostering there is a high chance that the child will stay 'forever' until they become an adult if the placement goes well.  A five or six year old that is reaching the age where they are unlikely to be adopted is likely to be placed 'permanently' with one foster family until they become an adult.  That would be the ideal situation for a child that is not adopted.  Standard foster carers do need to completely make that child a part of their own family for the entire time they are with them (and well into adulthood if that child is never adopted).


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## Wyxie

I think it's a lot easier to make sweeping statements about what should or shouldn't happen, and what's best for whom, when one has a biological child.  

I also think most people who have adopted have a very real grasp of the incredible trauma that children go through when they lose everything familiar to them, and the long term effects that can have.

Sadly, there is very little simple about this issue.


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## Flash123

I agree wyxie. Currently it is the choice of the adopters whether or not they wish to go into foster to adopt. Yes, often it is the 'best' for the child but if all younger children were placed under the foster to adopt scheme the obvious result would be that those who believe that FtA isn't for them would be unable to adopt a young child.

Being perfectly honest, we adopted for purely selfish reasons. Im not ashamed to say it but we wanted a family and we wanted a family as young as possible. By the time we had got to adoption we were broken. Years and years of TTC had destroyed us and it took a huge amount of love, tenacity and endless reserves to fix us. Adoption didn't do that, we did it but it helped. Could we have gone into it knowing there was a chance we would lose our little one and be broken again - no chance. 

I may be wrong but I do not believe there are many people who would consider a pregnancy if there was a realistic chance that they would lose there much longed for child, if they were to lose them once they had given them their heart. 

Therefore why should it be different for adopters? 

I admire those who can FtA. It wasn't for us because the fear of losing  a child we loved was too big a fear. Selfish yes but I do not feel we should have the chance of having a family taken from us because we can't face that fear and the risk of being broken again.


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## becs40

Absolutely Flash!
We did go down the Fta route but the situation with our lo seemed at the outset to be very straightforward and extremely low risk of being returned which is why we said yes. As it transpires the risks increased and the plan changed so although lo was placed with us on fta it wasn't until the placement order had been made.
We said we could do it because we were comfortable with a low risk, if it had just been a "baby" and the risks of return unknown there is no way we would have done it. As you say most of us that get to adoption do so after enduring incredible pain and heartache.
Our lo went straight to a foster carer at birth who was amazing with him, he came to us at 6 months less than 5 days after placement order was issued. If I'm completely honest I think this is the way to do fta. It meant he was placed at 6 months and not at 8 whilst we went through the red tape if matching panel etc which seems completely sensible to me. I think all young babies should be placed like this, there is nothing to be gained by baby, foster carers, adopters or birth parents to leave them with a foster carer whilst social workers do the reports and paperwork and wait for a spare slot at matching panel etc. those are 2 very key months that are best served by moving to adopters as quickly as possible.


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## Flash123

Becs it makes me so mad because the waits and delays are so senseless and seemingly unnessessary (well I think so anyway) mind you I think that of both systems - FtA and approved adoption.
Take our wee man for example. His PO was granted before he was 5 months old. We were told of him the day after AP. he was out of authority but If we wanted to proceed everything was in place to do so immediately by our approving LA. they were ready for matching panel the next month so he would have been placed by 6 months old. BUT Due to admin and medical c*** ups from the placing authority it took another 3 months. I know this doesn't sound like long and I realise that having a baby only 8 months old is a dream come true that we never ever thought would happen but he could have been home at 6.

Several couples from our prep were at AP one month, MP the next and their babies were placed by 6 months. If some can do it why can't others? 

Wee mans YOUNGER  sister was still in FC with no PO when she was past 12 months. The only change in her and wee mans situation was that BF had deteriorated even further and she was born in prison. I know recently there have been issues with PO being awarded and evidence needed but come on.

So it can happen for both FtA and approved adoption. 
Sorry to hijack this thread with a rant


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## Bluebell261

Not at all Flash, it gives everyone a complete picture of adoption and/or foster for adoption.

I'm glad you have your LO home, what you said about being selfish and not wanting to go through the heartache of losing a baby really hits home.

Thanks for posting everyone 😄


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## becs40

I have to say I find the whole matching panel thing strange as well. I can see its validity with older children or children with special needs. What I don't get is the point of it if it's a straightforward baby like ours? What is there to match? He has no special needs (currently or foreseen) that we need to have experience/information on, he is a baby (was 6 months at placement) so no hobbies/interests/personality to fit in with our lifestyle etc. I would have been seriously hacked off if he hadn't of been placed at 6 months and placed at nearer to 9 instead just to go through this "procedure". What a nonsense for these young babies. 8 months is young but having gad our lo since he was 6 months I can see how incredibly valuable those couple of months have been.


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## cfb107

This thread is fascinating. 

If we were to adopt (which I'd like to) then I would hope for concurrent or fta. This is because it obviously makes much more sense in terms of the child's attachment needs. It's a shame that children have to wait until 6 months even to be placed through fta, as in the case of Bec's LO, as those 6 months spent with another family and the trauma of losing that is huge. 

Something not talked about here are the risks to the adoptive family that are taken on with the child. Children with disrupted attachment present with problems later in life, and their early attachment patterns will affect how they respond to later childhood traumas (eg parental divorce, bereavement or move)... and how they respond to trauma in turn greatly affects their family's well being. I would think that fta or concurrent placement is much less of a risk to adoptive parents in that way. 

As an adult who was an insecurely attached child I can tell you I'd take the risks of fta over the risks of traditional adoption. I wouldn't have wanted to raise me. 

In my case I think that a major cause of insecure attachment was living with my grandmother who I didn't really know, while my mother returned to work full time, from about 6-9 months. After which point I returned to my parents. (there were other factors too.)

I was later bullied and isolated at school. This is much more common in children with insecure attachment. Insecure attachment is much more common than people think. It affects around 25-40% of people, and the likelihood of incidence is not related to factors such as class. I was angry and aggressive at home, stole and lied.

In adulthood I was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, which is a result of insecure attachment. I have I believe been able to reorient to secure attachment through long term therapy and the devotion of my oh but it has been a bloody long and painful journey with a major financial cost, both in terms of my earning capacity which has been negligible through my 20s (i was unable to complete a degree or start a career while poorly, and I'm not sure I will ever have much earning capacity because it 'costs' me a lot to maintain a lifestyle in which I am mentally healthy) and also in terms of treatment. 

I would not change a thing as I have been able to understand through these experiences the importance of secure attachment and I have prioritised building this in my son before all else. We have a long history of MH problems on both sides of my family and it is my joy to try and change that. My son is confident, sociable, loving and displays signs of secure attachment, including the ones that don't fit easily in our culture but I am so happy to see them!

I share my story because I would urge all prospective parents to think about the long term impacts of disrupted attachment. 

Dan Siegel's book ' parenting from within ' has been very inspirational to me, he talks about how we can rebuild our brains, and how the younger the person is when repair work begins, the easier and more successful it is. However obviously the least trauma possible to recover from is the aim. 

I think it was also in that book that I read something else that really interested me, that we can switch from a secure pattern of attachment to an insecure pattern in adulthood, following devastating loss. We are constantly evolving and nothing is set in stone. However someone with a secure pattern of attachment built in the first 5 years will I believe always find it easier to recover from such a loss than someone who doesn't. 

I absolutely believe that a part of my brain remembers the loss of my mother during those 3 months (although I did see her briefly in the mornings but not after work, she worked very long hours), and that I will continue to be shaped by that loss throughout my life. 

I don't mean to scare anyone: I feel that the effects of insecure attachment are little understood or publicised, and that the majority of people with insecure attachment are undiagnosed, unaware, and live a life affected by issues they don't need to live with. So I feel it's important to share my story. It's only been by a very, very lucky set of circumstances that I have become aware of and been able to address my issues; I thank God every day but it breaks my heart to see practices promoting insecure attachment continuing to be used. 

As adults we have the ability to reach out for support and change our responses to traumatic situations, but young children have no control over their lives. Their needs have to come first.


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## crazyspaniel

Cfb107,
Thank you so much for posting here (even though reading it has made me cry  )
Your post would be an inspiration to many adoptive parents whose children are profoundly affected by their insecure attachments...

The problems that our children experience as a result of their difficult starts in life are wide and far reaching and sadly generally misunderstood by everyone around us. 

I hope that my daughter can find the insight into her problems that you have when she is older.

I'm sure someone more eloquent will come along so but for now just, thank you xxx


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## somedaysoon

Glad I popped in to have a look kn these forums. What great posts about concurrency and foster to adopt. I can't add much to what has been already said so well, only my experience. 

We are in the middle of a concurrent placement at the moment. Can't say too much due to confidentiality but we haven't regretted our decision at all. I will admit that there were moments during home study and training when we actually said to each other, "What are we doing? Are we mad? " but we wouldn't have it any other way now. We have a wonderful baby girl placed with us who fits in so well with us and brings us great joy.

The draws towards concurrency for us were:
- We were interested both in fostering and adoption and helping children in the care system in some way.
- Although we realised how devastating it could be, we felt we were in a good enough place to take an emotional risk, in order to help reach the right decision. While it didn't bear thinking about, if our child was relinquished at least we would have given her a good start.
- We  had no faith in our LA who made so many mistakes, couldn't be contacted etc when we enquired about adoption. On the other hand, the agency who dealt with concurrent planning were fantastic - always easy to contact, actually answered questions etc.
- The length of the process. It took 9 months from we first applied to the agency to being matched with our LO and taking her home. Our LA is especially slow. One friend has been waiting over a year to evrn be allocsted a social worker!!
- The age of the children (0-2 years) as we felt it would be easier to form attachments. 
- The fact that we would meet birth parents. Initially when researching adoption I wouldn't have wanted this, but the more I have looked into it, the more I realise how good it is to help your child deal with his/her past and be able to talk to them about BPs. I am glad we have been able to get to know BPs in this way.

There are many risks and difficulties in concurrent planning eg birth relatives popping up suddenly wanting to be assessed when you think things are headed towards adoption, uncertainties about your very young child's future (things such as FASD or autism may only show up much later) etc. It is an emotional rollercoaster!  However, it is the best course of action for a very young child meaning less moves etc and has plenty of rewards also.

If it is concurrent planning that you decide to do make sure that your LA or VA do concurrency in its 'pure form'. This means that the assessment of birth parents takes around 6 months only as advocated by CORAM. Some LAs seem to offer concurrent planning but it could take years of fostering before a final outcome (we couldn't have coped with this!) and work at a much slower rate.

Will be watching this thread with great interest. All the best with your decision making,  Bluebell!


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## Bluebell261

Hi somedaysoon, 

Congratulations on your match! 

Thanks for sharing your story. After years of TTC it's lovely to read people's stories on the adoption threads. 

We actually had our initial assessment on Friday. The SW from our LA said she should be able to let us know if we can proceed to stay one this week, fingers crossed. 

We mentioned F2A so she talked to us about that and concurrency - they both make much more sense now. 

We both decided we don't feel concurrency us for us, so hopefully if we can proceed we will go down the f2a route. Although saying that the SW said she marched a couple with a 5 month old last week through adoption so very young lo's are being matched quickly / at a young age. 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed we get to stage 1 and would also love it somedaysoon if you could come back and let us know hiw your story ends. All the best and thanks again for sharing your story Xx


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## Flash123

Bluebell I know it was 2 years but we were matched with a 5 month old and our adoption journey from start to him being in our arms was less that 9 months so we certainly can't complain. Good luck with everything you decide xx


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## cfb107

Good luck bluebell. Exciting times xxx


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## cfb107

Thank you so much crazyspaniel. (we have a crazy poodle  ) that's so encouraging of you to say. Something that makes me a bit mad is that insecure attachment is acknowledged and yet recovery from the effects of it is not facilitated by the NHS. I found a couple of small centres in the UK when I looked but nothing reasonable close by or offering nationwide effective care. There doesn't seem to be a standard plan of care for adults, even privately, that I have come across anyway. How is it that insecure attachment is so well researched and yet no care exists for affected adults? 

Good luck everyone with your journeys and congrats to those who have adopted or foster xxx


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## Bluebell261

Thanks everyone Xx


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## Bluebell261

Hi all, 

We heard from SW today we've been approved to start Stage 1!!!!

I'm over the moon 

Just heading home to celebrate with DH.

Hope everyone else is having a great day.

Thanks for all your support Xx


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## Bluebell261

Hi all,

I've decided to update this thread as we go along to keep a record of our journey and for anyone else considering F2A.

So, we've sent our forms off for references etc and have completed our DBS's. It's also been confirmed we have a place on the April training course which is 3 days long. I'm so pleased as there were 3 courses - April, May or June. There wasn't one in March so our SW said the April one would be busy, however we knew we couldn't make the May one so I'm thrilled we are on the April one. 

It seems everything's moving forward very smoothly at the moment!! So pleased


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## Helend75

Hello there, I was aware of this thread & tracked it down as I previously read out of curiosity, but am now having to clue myself up on f2a (which I'm guessing is the same as early permanence or is that something else again?!).
We have in our initial house visit & first meeting with our assigned SW said we're interested in a preschool sibling pair. At that last meeting however, SW raised f2a. The comment of 'many adopters have suffered enough grief to risk returning a child to bf' came to mind, so I pretty much instantly dismissed it. 
Last night when looking at the itinerary of our prep days (2 next week, 2 week after), OH said he's not ruling it out & is interested. I've agreed to open my mind to the prospect given to date I'd just not thought it a consideration. 

I've nothing to add as such, given the thread is so informative but if it is still being updated then I'll be reading with interest!


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## Bluebell261

Hi Helen, 

Thanks for posting, I would be interested to hear how you get on with your course days, we have ours in 2 weeks time.

Has your SW made any progress with getting in touch with your referee's?

Hopefully if we update this thread it will be a useful reference guide for others in the future.

All the best!


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## Helend75

I initiated one meeting, all 3 referees live out of the area, one will only ever be skype/phone call, the other two were happy to meet SW at our home. My mum has a spare key & although she returned the written reference last week hasn't yet heard anything about meeting.  I've suggested she contact the admin contact she has to initiate this herself. When we were given the stage 1 paperwork, I suggested that our other referee would come over during the school holidays (it's a 90min drive & he's a school teacher), so that's been arranged a little while. 
I'm a teacher and it's worked out nicely that I have prep over the holidays, though with a wedding to attend Friday to Monday I don't feel like I'm getting many days holiday this fortnight!! 

I've an adoption diary & will update on the course in there.


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## moobags

Hi ladies this thread is great I just wanted to ask the ladies who have done F2A what traing is involved.  We are approved adopters we did rule out the FTA route but think it is something we want to look into and wondered what it would entail to get this status as we are with a VA.

Thanks for all the information you have all posted it is so helpful.

Mo x


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## dreamingofabettertime

I would like to draw your attention to the legal position on f2a, the guidelines clearly state that social services should only recommend a child for a foster 2 adopt placement if there are 'no significant changes in circumstances'.... what this generally means as in our own child's example is that the parent/s have not changed behaviours or done anything different to change their circumstances. Often a previous recent adoption or circumstances of a pattern of behaviour would mean a pregnant mothers child would be considered. The problems start when inexperienced social workers refer their case to f2a when in truth they do not qualify or there are other variables which could complicate things with the judge for them to place child in a mother & baby unit to give the birth parent a 'second chance' (e.g birth mother has mental health problems which are difficult to assess consistently).

In our case we adopted our first child at 6.5 months old (not through F2A) and then soon after found out birth mum was pregnant again. As we had only just adopted and no circumstances had changed (despite BM & father saying they had changed!) SW referred the case to F2A. So we were offered this choice (when we found out about baby at 23 weeks pregnant).

I will not lie it was stressful but getting any baby whatever route you take is..... I held our little darling at 3 days old...I cannot put into words how that felt but I know you can imagine.

I could talk for hours on the subject (and very happy to answer any of your questions) but in summary my advise is to find out everything you can about the case and if you have doubts about 'no significant changes' then question social services until you are red in the face. You should understand every aspect of the 'risk you and your family' take with this.

Concurrency is different, read the guidelines. 
F2A has been brought about by cases like ours. If it goes wrong then sadly it is due to the SW getting the referral wrong as all of the facts should remain same or be clear cut. It should be rare that things go wrong but SW's are human beings and judges are just getting their heads around the new system so there is 'risk' associated to this too.
This link will take you to the practice guidelines (what the social workers guidelines are), it will provide you an idea on concurrency and F2A: http://www.baaf.org.uk/webfm_send/3217

The benefits are enormous as my baby has only a memory of us he does everything a birth child would; reaching out for me, clinging to me, gains comfort at our smell and sounds etc, etc. Our adopted other child has had to learn to attach to us, it has taken time and patience and is there now but it was a very different journey (however very rewarding as he is amazing!).

I am of course not answering the original question about your request for 'horror stories' but I would challenge that as why think of the negative when you can open your heart and minds to the positives. BUT be warned you must research find out about the case and be tough with social services with your questions. DO NOT JUMP in although everything in your body wants you to, be cautious and the right choice will find a way through. Weight up the risks.

Being open in your assessment enables you to have choices later on once you are approved, you can always change your mind either way once you get through your training; nothing is set in stone and until your PAR has gone to panel you can change it as many times as you like.

Wishing you every joy.

P.S Life for us now is un-real..... 2 babies under 2.... everyday is exhausting but incredible!!

/links


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## Bluebell261

Thank you dreamingofabettertime, what a lovely outcome for you- congratulations! 

Thanks for your post, we are still in stage 1 and have our prep course coming up so we are hoping they will cover off f2a a little more then.

This thread is turning into a great reference point, thanks to everyone who has contributed


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## cfb107

Thanks so much for sharing your story, Dreaming. What an excellent outcome for your second kiddo in terms of their healthy development  congratulations on your two miracles xxx


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## ultrafirebug

Hi, we have just started out f2a/adoption process. Was wondering if there are any buddies out there or if anyone can share their experiences/questions we should ask/what to expect. Thanks x


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