# Newbie to this board. TTC number 2 - so much harder this time round



## aquapinkdog

Hi Girls,
Could I please join you? I've only just discovered this thread and it sounds like there are so many people in the same position as us, which makes me feel less alone.
I got pregnant naturally within 3 months last time, so had no idea there would be problems this time. We've now been trying 15 months, which I know is not long compared to lots of ladies on this site.
After 9 months I went to the GP and both DH and I had tests. Mine came back fine, but DH got told he had to do his sample again 'as there wasn't enough'. Second sample came back in Dec that he had low motility (5%). He's now on Wellman Conception, sunflower/pumpkin seeds/maca/extra zinc, so we were hoping for an improved result with the most recent sample, but the docs first words were 'are you sure you got it there within 1 hr'. Apparently there was no motility at all. We are both really devastated. The doc did advise to do another test straight away in case the hospital had left it lying around or something.

I have an appt with the fertility consultant on Friday, but I don't know what he can suggest except ICSI, so I have been researching clinics this weekend. 

On good days I keep thinking 'well we did it once, surely we can do it again', but then when I see test results with 'no motility' it's hard to keep up the positive thinking. 

I hope that there will be lots of BFP's on this board this year.

Thanks for reading if you got this far 
Fx


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## bubblicous

aquapink - welcome to ff and to the secondary infertility board. i am so sorry to hear about your dh latest set of test results and the problems you have been having  
hopefully you will find ff a useful and invaluable place i know i do. Has your dh to have another sa done?/
I want to wish you lots of luck for your appointment i hope it all goes well

you may find this board interesting http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=35.0 hopefully it will be useful to you

wishing you lots of luck


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## Bubblicious

Hi Aquapinkdog,

We have unexplained secondary infertility and are now hoping to conceive with a little help. Like you #1 was conceived quickly [second month of trying] and I can't help but wonder if perhaps there is something wrong with us and that DS was a bit of a miracle.

I'm sorry about your DH's SA results. Hope your appointment went well yesterday and you have some options to consider.


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## aquapinkdog

Hi,
Thanks for your post. I will keep everything crossed for you this month.
One of my friends was in exactly the same boat as us, and she got her 2nd bfp today after 2 years of trying 

The consultant was very matter of fact that as far as he's concerned DH is the issue and he will do everything he can to sort his sperm out. Firstly he has been completely banned from drinking for 4 months (I've previously always been told that it takes 75-90 days for sperm to regenerate - he said 90-120 days) and has to do another test then. In the meantime he's arranged for blood tests to check his hormones and an ultrasound scan to check for variocele. He's also written to the GP to ask for him to be referred to a Urologist, although I don't know what they do?

He said that he should take 500mg of vitamin C 3 days a day and 200iu of vitamin e 3 times a day too. I asked about wellman conception and he just said he had no idea what was in it and not to bother (although I've told DH to take it anyway) and that zinc was a waste of time which really shocked me as I thought that was the main motility vitamin. He believes there's a 50% chance of just vit c and vit e increasing his motility to a really good rate. Let's hope so.

We talked about ICSI and he told me not to get carried away as he hoped to improve things naturally in the next 4 months. He did explain how to choose a clinic etc though. He also kept referring to me as a spring chicken at 35 (on Friday) which made me laugh.

So I guess we just wait and see what happens. I was really positive after seeing him, but hearing another friend is pregnant today has made me a bit 'when's it my turn' again, although because it took them so long it's a bit of inspiration too.

Fx



Bubblicious said:


> Hi Aquapinkdog,
> 
> We have unexplained secondary infertility and are now hoping to conceive with a little help. Like you #1 was conceived quickly [second month of trying] and I can't help but wonder if perhaps there is something wrong with us and that DS was a bit of a miracle.
> 
> I'm sorry about your DH's SA results. Hope your appointment went well yesterday and you have some options to consider.


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## Debbienick

Hi everyone, so sorry to hear of your struggles. We are also having a few problems. I know part of it is that I had to have a tube removed but just had the dye test and the other one is apparently fine - phew. 
My DH is due for his sperm test in May. Aquapinkdog, You mentioned the alcohol thing. That really worries me as when we were trying first time round my DH sperm was under par - i think low motility but cant remember the exact term. Anyway, he does drink far too much (in my opinion) but is very stubborn (bless him...!) there is no way he will give up alcohol if the doctor asks him to. I really hope his count is ok......your doc obviously believes that it is a big factor if he has asked him to cut it out.

Just one more q, what is ICSI? Its mentioned alot but I didnt know what it involved.....just wondering what we will be offered on our next consultancy visit!

Best of luck with your journeys - hope you all get that beautiful BFP x


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## aquapinkdog

Hi Debbienick,
Glad that your tube is ok. That's really good news.
The consultant said that in lots of men alcohol doesn't matter, but if the sperm is already weak then it makes it worse, hence the complete ban. Luckily DH has taken it really well, and I think it helped coming from a Doctor, rather than me. I have told him he can wait until after holiday - another 2 weeks until his 4 months abstinence isn't going to make any difference. We've waited this long.
ICSI is like IVF but they inject the sperm directly into the egg, taking away the need for the sperm to swim anywhere. I've read a lot about it specifically in relation to male problems. Have you got him on vitamins yet? If his test isn't until May he's got time to get them into his system. 
Good luck with getting that BFP too.
Fx


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## Debbienick

Hi there, thanks alot for the info, hopefully the drinking wont be a big issue then, fingers crossed that the results are ok. He did have a bad result when we were struggling to concieve our DD, but he had a 2nd test and it came back ok so they said maybe it had been left too long first time round.

He isnt on vits, no. My DH is the most stubborn man I know   so anything I suggest falls on deaf ears. Its not that he doesnt want another one, I think its just in his nature to put the gloves on when he feels backed into a corner about anything......I need to somehow make him think vits are his idea, then he might go for it!!

Best of luck with your treatment - will keep everything crossed for you x


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## Dipps

Hi ladies,

I hope you don't mind if I join you? 

I'm 36 (with 37 fast approaching!) and have a dd 3 1/2 (took almost 2 years and 1 m/c to conceive) and have been trying for number 2 for 2 years now, had an ectopic in Sep 09 and lost left tube and nothing since!

I used to post on another forum when ttc#1 and found it a fantastic place to chat to other girlies and met some lovely ladies that I'm still friends with now, it's just nice to be able to let it out sometimes with people who understand!

Somehow it seems more taboo to be upset about not being able to conceive no.2 as you feel you should be grateful for what you have, and believe me I am, and I feel I should be able to move on and accept how lucky I am, but still I feel stuck, like I can't move forward and make any real plans until I get that BFP, which I know is not the way to think!

Anyway, hope to get to know you all better and thanks for the support that just reading your words has given me!

ta ta for now

Dipps
x x


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## aquapinkdog

Hey Dipps.
I could have written your post about how we should feel grateful myself.
DS is the most fab child and I know we are really lucky to have him, but now I've started beating myself up about how he may never get a sibling, and that I feel guilty.
I know that's silly as there are pros and cons to having a sibling. I was an only child for 12 years, and I don't think I was any the worse off for it.

Up until this month I'd been quite optimistic that we would improve DH's sperm with vitamins and cutting out alcohol, and that all would be ok, but hearing 2 more friends are pregnant this week has just sent me into a real spin and convinced it's never going to happen again for us. It doesn't help I'm due on tomorrow and all the signs are there AF is going to come.

Anyway, I just went off on a tangent, welcome to the board and I hope that you have lots of luck and a BFP this year.

Fx


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## Dipps

Hey Aquapinkdog (phew, that's a longy!!)  

Thanks for replying, just looked at your signature thingy and it looks like we have quite a bit in common! 

I know what you mean, I too had been feeling optimistic and somehow always believed it would happen naturally, but it's only in the last couple of weeks that it's really hit me that actually it may not! And like you my overriding guilt is about not being able to give my little girl a sibling, I just can't come to terms with the thought of her playing on her own at home or on holidays etc, I know that she'll always have friends and family and of course us to play with but somehow it just doesn't feel the same. My only saving grace is that there's five and a bit years between me & my sis so I know that age gaps aren't the worst thing in the world as we're really close, and in a way I think a bigger age gap takes a bit of the competition element out of the way between siblings as you're less likely to be compared or have the same friends when you're young.

DH's little swimmers (!) were tested about 5 years ago and were fine but he has volunteered to go and get tested again just in case, the prob lies with me I suspect, especially being one tube short of a repro system  

My main issue is that I have decided not to go down the IVF route (and I feel incredibly guilty about that) and my hubby is in agreement, it's just not for me, I have sooooo much respect for anyone who does it and I realise that the outcome could potentially be amazing but I just know that I'm too much of a stress head and obssessive and would find it hard to walk away once I started, and as there's no guarantees,especially at nearly 37, I don't want to put myself under that much pressure and risk not making the most of my little one growing up, I'm just not laid back enough to ahndle hormone overdoses I have enough of my own to cope with!! Trouble is it makes me feel like I'm not doing everything I could, although I am doing accupuncture and trying to sort out my diet a bit.

Never realised that being a Mum would be one long guilt trip!!!!!!   but a great one!

Anyway, apols for the ramble, I am prone to those   and thanks for the welcome! When's your hubby's next test?

Dipps
x x


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## Dipps

Oow, meant to say Aquapinkdog, good luck for tomorrow, hope the witch stays away   sending lots of babydust your way  

x


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## aquapinkdog

Hey Dipps,
Thanks for your posts.
I def know witch is on it's way. I am really struggling to be nice to DH tonight and he's only been home 30 mins 

His next tests are late July and my appt is beginning of Aug. 

You're right about it all being one long guilt trip. I always wanted a 4 year gap and only brought trying forward a year cos my little sister decided to get married exactly when I planned I'd be 9 months pregnant - hahaha. If only life worked that way huh? Anyway, I'm pleased we did bring it forward, at least we know what the problem is and we are working on it. 

I think I've been very matter of fact about IVF so far, but as reality is setting in, the closer we are getting to the appt with the consultant, the more I'm thinking 'is this what I want?'. I've always said we'll only have one turn, but like you said I'm not sure I will be able to stop at one if it doesn't work. I will always be wondering what if? Then comes the guilt again - should I just be focussing on Alex and enjoying him, rather than worrying all the time?

Argh. It's never ending. I was so chilled til August, when I started wondering 'what's going on', then since Dec when we found there was a problem I was very matter of fact and 'let's sort it out', but now I'm doing my own head in. Sorry. 
I know so many well meaning people say 'well if you stopped stressing it'll just happen, but I wasn't stressed for the first 9 months, so why didn't it happen then?

You must think I'm a real moaning old bag. I promise I'm not normally like this 

How are you finding acupuncture? My friend who's 45 is doing it for secondary infertility, and reckons she feels like a new woman. I asked DH whether he'd consider it because it's supposed to be good for sperm, but he said no.

Anyway, I will stop rambling again, but lovely to meet you and take care.
Love Fxxxxx


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## Bubblicious

Aquapinkdog, I haven't read all the replies [sorry .. pushed for time] but your latest post really rang a bell with me. I am looking to embark on IVF after a diagnosis of unexplained secondary infertility and I am so unsure about whether I am doing the right thing. Should I give up on this and concentrate on enjoying what we have? DH says although he would love more, it's me that will have to go through the treatment and ultimately it's up to me if I want to put myself through it. I just don't know what to do. I've always dreamt of a house full of children.

I was at a point about six months back when I was devastated when AF arrived each month. Now, I'm kind of resigned to AF arriving each month so in a way I've reached some level of acceptance and the arrival of two new nieces in the past couple of months with all the sleepeless nights, nappy changing etc that come with that has not made me feel broody but rather reminded me of how hard those first months were. Do I want to disrupt my DS's life with a newborn and all that comes with it? Are we ready to go back to baby mode? Do I want to spend a whole chunk of savings on something that might fail? DS is such fun at the moment and I remember a friend who has 2 DS's [oldest is the same age as mine] who said she had given her DS1 the worse Xmas present ever, a baby brother!

Dipps, how hard was it to make the decision not to do IVF?


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## Dannii_Doots

Hello girls

i have been reading the thread and most of it could have also been written by me...

we have decided to go down the ivf road for two reasons
1) here in northern we get a one turn on the nhs regardless of the fact that we have a child together
2) i jus feel that its something i have to try, the what if? feelings are very strong at the moment

i have a fab daughter who will be 9 in jan so the age gap is getting bigger between her and any potential child i may have.

we are having 2 trys of ivf, the nhs go and one self funded go, its all we can afford

sorry for rambling, i just wanted to say hello as this board can be pretty quiet at times


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## Dipps

Hi Bubblicious (& Danii & Aquapd & Debbienick!)

We are all very much in the same boat (might need more paddles) and though I obviously hope we all abandon ship very soon, it’s nice to have some company!

I have to be honest and say that for me there’s more factors at play in the IVF decision, unfortunately I also get panic attacks sometimes (especially when pregnant – nice double edged sword there!) and find that swings in hormones just makes it worse, and this ttc malarkey has been stressful enough and I think that hormone injections and an even more tension-loaded 2WW etc. would tip me over the edge. I have to say that if I wasn’t as susceptible to stress then I’d probably be sprinting down to the clinic right now, I just don’t feel calm enough in myself to do it at the moment and think that that in itself would count against in working, wrong frame of mind and all that!

Also I guess I still have some hope it’ll work out naturally and although I don’t want to carry on trying forever, I kind of have a figure of 40 as my end date, and as I still have 3 years left, so at the moment that’s enough of a comfort barrier if that makes any sense? That’s not to say I won’t change my mind about IVF when I hit my 39th birthday, I’m never saying never! I would just like to say as well that the ’40’ thing is just personal to me, I know plenty of lovely ladies who wait well into their 40’s to start TTC and they’re fab Mum’s it’s just that I feel I need to have some sort of cut-off point in mind purely for my own sanity, and that seemed the most obvious!

Think it doesn’t help that I’m a stay at home Mum at the mo, and have been putting off returning to work waiting for number 2 to arrive, a bit catch-22, so have far too much time on my hands to contemplate everything, I’m a serial overthinker!

I read somewhere the other day that in a way secondary infertility is harder to escape from as given you have one child, you’re surrounded by pregnancies at school gates/nursery/play groups/baby group friends etc. so it’s not like you can even put it out of your head or stay away from potential ‘upsets’, very true, I swear I’m in the middle of a bump epidemic and am off to centre parcs in a week and a bit and remember that we went the same week last year and literally 80% of the women there were bumped up! I tried inhaling deeply and casually brushing up against them but it obviously wasn’t airborne!

And please Aquapd, don’t ever say sorry, you’re certainly not a ‘moanbag’, this is a hard thing we’re all going through and we have to acknowledge that and not be too hard on ourselves, if we can’t come on here and go ‘bleurrgh’! where can we? I’m sure I’ve bored my hubby to do with my incessant ttc chatter, and if we don’t get it out (so to speak!) we’ll just drive ourselves crazy – too late some might say for me, I did my own head in years ago! Hope you’ve had some good news today x

Just to say as well (sorry for long post) that acupuncture is not something I ever really thought of as I’m not a needle fan, but (tmi warning) I googled a few changed period symptoms I’d been having since ectopic; spotting up to week before AF, clotting, skin break out, and found that this seemed indicative of a lowered progesterone level after ovulation which would mean that I probably wouldn’t be able to get pregnant or sustain it if I did, so it may well explain why it’s taking me so long as my periods weren’t like this before, and acupuncture has got good results for restoring hormone balance and I have to say that side of things is working – just a thought if any of you ladies have noticed any changes in your cycles, I thought I was well read on the whole reproduction topic before but this one had passed me by!

Right, really going now!

Good luck and big kisses/hugs to you all

Dipps
xx


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## aquapinkdog

Bubblicious said:


> Aquapinkdog, I haven't read all the replies [sorry .. pushed for time] but your latest post really rang a bell with me. I am looking to embark on IVF after a diagnosis of unexplained secondary infertility and I am so unsure about whether I am doing the right thing. Should I give up on this and concentrate on enjoying what we have? DH says although he would love more, it's me that will have to go through the treatment and ultimately it's up to me if I want to put myself through it. I just don't know what to do. I've always dreamt of a house full of children.
> 
> I was at a point about six months back when I was devastated when AF arrived each month. Now, I'm kind of resigned to AF arriving each month so in a way I've reached some level of acceptance and the arrival of two new nieces in the past couple of months with all the sleepeless nights, nappy changing etc that come with that has not made me feel broody but rather reminded me of how hard those first months were. Do I want to disrupt my DS's life with a newborn and all that comes with it? Are we ready to go back to baby mode? Do I want to spend a whole chunk of savings on something that might fail? DS is such fun at the moment and I remember a friend who has 2 DS's [oldest is the same age as mine] who said she had given her DS1 the worse Xmas present ever, a baby brother!
> 
> Dipps, how hard was it to make the decision not to do IVF?


Hi Bubbilicious,
I always thought I preferred babies to children, and I loved the newborn stage, but I have to say the older DH is getting the funnier he is, and now I look at newborns and think 'they're a bit boring really'. Maybe that's just other peoples' though 

I swing between being quite positive, and completely convinced it won't happen. When I'm in one of my 'it won't happen' moods I wonder why I'm throwing £1000's towards something with pretty rubbish odds. Then I think I don't want to look back in 10 years and wonder why I didn't even give it a chance. The consultant was really positive about ICSI and our odds.

We are going back to the consultant at the beginning of Aug to see if DH's results have improved, but I was going to try and have a look round a few clinics the next month or two, so I can decide where we will go if it comes to it. I just want to get on with it really.

Can I ask why you decided on ARGC?

It's been lovely chatting to people on here this week who understand exactly what I'm going through.

Fx


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## aquapinkdog

Dannii_Doots said:


> Hello girls
> 
> i have been reading the thread and most of it could have also been written by me...
> 
> we have decided to go down the ivf road for two reasons
> 1) here in northern we get a one turn on the nhs regardless of the fact that we have a child together
> 2) i jus feel that its something i have to try, the what if? feelings are very strong at the moment
> 
> i have a fab daughter who will be 9 in jan so the age gap is getting bigger between her and any potential child i may have.
> 
> we are having 2 trys of ivf, the nhs go and one self funded go, its all we can afford
> 
> sorry for rambling, i just wanted to say hello as this board can be pretty quiet at times


Hi Dannii Doots,
Welcome,
Good luck with your IVF. Let's hope it works first time. Got everything crossed for you. When will you start?
Please keep us up to date on what's going on. 
Love Fx


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## aquapinkdog

Dipps said:


> Hi Bubblicious (& Danii & Aquapd & Debbienick!)
> 
> We are all very much in the same boat (might need more paddles) and though I obviously hope we all abandon ship very soon, it's nice to have some company!
> 
> I have to be honest and say that for me there's more factors at play in the IVF decision, unfortunately I also get panic attacks sometimes (especially when pregnant - nice double edged sword there!) and find that swings in hormones just makes it worse, and this ttc malarkey has been stressful enough and I think that hormone injections and an even more tension-loaded 2WW etc. would tip me over the edge. I have to say that if I wasn't as susceptible to stress then I'd probably be sprinting down to the clinic right now, I just don't feel calm enough in myself to do it at the moment and think that that in itself would count against in working, wrong frame of mind and all that!
> 
> Also I guess I still have some hope it'll work out naturally and although I don't want to carry on trying forever, I kind of have a figure of 40 as my end date, and as I still have 3 years left, so at the moment that's enough of a comfort barrier if that makes any sense? That's not to say I won't change my mind about IVF when I hit my 39th birthday, I'm never saying never! I would just like to say as well that the '40' thing is just personal to me, I know plenty of lovely ladies who wait well into their 40's to start TTC and they're fab Mum's it's just that I feel I need to have some sort of cut-off point in mind purely for my own sanity, and that seemed the most obvious!
> 
> Think it doesn't help that I'm a stay at home Mum at the mo, and have been putting off returning to work waiting for number 2 to arrive, a bit catch-22, so have far too much time on my hands to contemplate everything, I'm a serial overthinker!
> 
> I read somewhere the other day that in a way secondary infertility is harder to escape from as given you have one child, you're surrounded by pregnancies at school gates/nursery/play groups/baby group friends etc. so it's not like you can even put it out of your head or stay away from potential 'upsets', very true, I swear I'm in the middle of a bump epidemic and am off to centre parcs in a week and a bit and remember that we went the same week last year and literally 80% of the women there were bumped up! I tried inhaling deeply and casually brushing up against them but it obviously wasn't airborne!
> 
> And please Aquapd, don't ever say sorry, you're certainly not a 'moanbag', this is a hard thing we're all going through and we have to acknowledge that and not be too hard on ourselves, if we can't come on here and go 'bleurrgh'! where can we? I'm sure I've bored my hubby to do with my incessant ttc chatter, and if we don't get it out (so to speak!) we'll just drive ourselves crazy - too late some might say for me, I did my own head in years ago! Hope you've had some good news today x
> 
> Just to say as well (sorry for long post) that acupuncture is not something I ever really thought of as I'm not a needle fan, but (tmi warning) I googled a few changed period symptoms I'd been having since ectopic; spotting up to week before AF, clotting, skin break out, and found that this seemed indicative of a lowered progesterone level after ovulation which would mean that I probably wouldn't be able to get pregnant or sustain it if I did, so it may well explain why it's taking me so long as my periods weren't like this before, and acupuncture has got good results for restoring hormone balance and I have to say that side of things is working - just a thought if any of you ladies have noticed any changes in your cycles, I thought I was well read on the whole reproduction topic before but this one had passed me by!
> 
> Right, really going now!
> 
> Good luck and big kisses/hugs to you all
> 
> Dipps
> xx


Hey Dipps,
Glad to hear that acupuncture seems to be improving your cycles. That sounds positive 

I don't bother talking to my husband about it much. He hardly mentions it, and I'm sure that he thinks I blame him. I feel like when I talk about it I'm having a dig because of his reaction, although I'm not. Having said that he's never really talked about anything important, but I think he's like most men - just hide in their caves when there's a problem.

I've been lucky that I have 4 friends who are going/have been through the same, 2 who I talk to about it all the time. One of those 2 has had a baby now, and the other is pregnant, both after 2 years trying (so longer than me). The 2 others mention it from time to time.

I agree there is a bump epidemic. Every single place I seem to look EVERYONE is pregnant except me. AF started this afternoon, when my pregnant friend was over. Argh. Is it ever going to happen?

Hope you have lots of fun at Centerparcs.

Love Fx


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## Bubblicious

Aquapinkdog, I am based in London so I'm lucky to have a good choice of private clinics practically on my doorstep.  I chose ARGC for IVF although I had IUI at The Lister because if we're going to do IVF I want to give it the best possible chance of working first time and their success rates are better than any others.  Also, I find it hard to believe the "diagnosis" of unexplained infertility.  There must be a reason in most cases for unexplained infertility, it's most likely just a case of identifying the reason.  ARGC insist on immune testing and I think I would like to rule out any immune issues before undertaking any expensive treatment.  Yes, ARGC is more expensive and more intensive but hopefully, we'll just need to go through the experience once only ... that's my hope anyway. 

It really is nice to be able the chat here to women in the same position.  In RL, everyone I know has two or three children with small gaps between so I have no one really to talk to about this ... no one really understands although they try to.

Good luck Danii.

Hope you all have good weekends.


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## Dannii_Doots

Hello my lovely new friends 

Aqua im already on day 9 of stimms, i did have to down reg for a month which was awful but feeling great at the minute, quite bloated though. have a scan on sunday morning with ec possibly on tues. i had 11 lovely follies on day 6, no cysts and my lining was thickining nicely, or so the doctor tells me 

Have a great wkend everyone  x x


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## aquapinkdog

Dannii_Doots said:


> Hello my lovely new friends
> 
> Aqua im already on day 9 of stimms, i did have to down reg for a month which was awful but feeling great at the minute, quite bloated though. have a scan on sunday morning with ec possibly on tues. i had 11 lovely follies on day 6, no cysts and my lining was thickining nicely, or so the doctor tells me
> 
> Have a great wkend everyone  x x


Hiya Dannii,
I will keep everything crossed for you.
I'm not up with the IVF abbreviations yet, what's ec?
I don't seem to be able to find any timelines for IVF anywhere, so I have no concept of how long it takes, how often you have to go clinic for all the tests/checks/scans etc.
Glad you are feeling good at the mo. Hope you manage to have a fab weekend. The weather is grim here for the first time in ages 
Keep in touch.
Fx


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## aquapinkdog

Bubblicious said:


> Aquapinkdog, I am based in London so I'm lucky to have a good choice of private clinics practically on my doorstep. I chose ARGC for IVF although I had IUI at The Lister because if we're going to do IVF I want to give it the best possible chance of working first time and their success rates are better than any others. Also, I find it hard to believe the "diagnosis" of unexplained infertility. There must be a reason in most cases for unexplained infertility, it's most likely just a case of identifying the reason. ARGC insist on immune testing and I think I would like to rule out any immune issues before undertaking any expensive treatment. Yes, ARGC is more expensive and more intensive but hopefully, we'll just need to go through the experience once only ... that's my hope anyway.
> 
> It really is nice to be able the chat here to women in the same position. In RL, everyone I know has two or three children with small gaps between so I have no one really to talk to about this ... no one really understands although they try to.
> 
> Good luck Danii.
> 
> Hope you all have good weekends.


Hi Bubbilicious,
I was completely set that I was going to ARGC, until I saw my consultant, and now I'm not so sure.

My most convenient clinic is Hammersmith because I work at Heathrow, but their success rates are lower than ARGC (although way better on their website than on HFEA's website. The good thing is it's a package price, so there are no hidden extras.

I'm a bit worried about how often I will have to go up to London and what I will do with my son while I'm there, but like I said in my post to Dannii, I'm not entirely sure how often you do have to make the journey?

I had a fab night out with DH last night. Went right back to our dating days...went bowling, played pool, racing games and I won some which was a miracle . Then went out for dinner. It was really FUN. Shame the weather is so pants today.

Hope you all have a good weekend.
Fx


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## Bubblicious

How's everyone doing?


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## aquapinkdog

Hey,
I'm ok. No change here except DH has just set off for his first appt at acupuncture. I have told him if he hates it I won't make him go again, but he was in a right mood when he left, so not anticipating him going a second time.

He finally got his referral for the urologist for 09June, although I have no idea what they do? I know they look at reproduction, but I'm not sure with what aim? Do they look at the sperm more intensely than a normal SA test?

How's everyone else? What date is your appt Bubb- it's coming up soon isn't it?

Fx


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## Evon

Hello ladies I am rarely on these days but just wanted to post to give you a positive story.
I'm sure I posted to Bubb before.

Like you I also had DD very easily (think 5th month of trying) but then when trying for 2nd it did not happen.
I went straight to Argc because of their stats (no NHS available for us) and they recommended IUI. This worked but I never did immunes testing at that time (regret that now) and lost the baby after seeing heartbeat twice.
ICis worked for us - I also needed ivig due to immunes.

We were told our issue was unexplained - did all the tests no issues at all.

Good luck to you all - I personally found ivf not as bad as I thought it might be. It was easier for me as I work in London and managed to fit it all around work (most my repeats hit weekends and bank holidays so managed not to tell work etc)
If you go with Argc try to just go with it.


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## Bubblicious

Thanks, Evon.


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## aquapinkdog

Hi,

How's everyone getting on?

Bubbs, have you made any more decisions since your appt at ARGC?

AFM, my mum went to see a tarot card reader yesterday who said 'your eldest daughter is desperate to have a baby, and is heartbroken and cries a lot, tell her not to have IVF because it won't work, but she will get pregnant naturally'. I have no idea what to think - she knew stuff about the situation I'd never even told my mum, and I've never seen this woman (I live 4 hours away).

Today we went to see the urologist for DH, who was very matter of fact, and said 'the hormone tests and scan have come back clear' (which we knew months ago cos the GP told us). DH's got to do another SA in August but he said 'well don't hold your breath the results will be any different'. I pointed out by then he won't have drank for 4 months and he said 'yeah, won't make any difference though', then we said he's on high doses of vit c and e (as per the fertility specialists instructions), he said 'well you're obviously not deficient in vit c, you haven't got scurvy have you?' He finished with 'you may aswell just go straight for ICSI. I was thoroughly deflated by his attitude and completely gutted.

Sorry for it being a 'me' post. Hope you are all well.

Love Fx


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## Bubblicious

Hi Aquapinkdog,

We are still taking it one step at a time. So first I'm having a monitored cycle plus immunes and depending on what they come back with will determine our next move. I'll be having the bloods taken for the immunes tests next Monday and a mid-cycle scan at the same time. We have a vague plan to start IVF in September but nothing is concrete.

I have to say I don't believe in tarot readers etc. They have ways to gleen info from you so it seems like they know things when they don't. I totally understand that when we are emotionally vulnerable, we clutch at straws [I've been there, too] but I'm ultimately too practical to believe in it.

Seems like your DH's urologist needs to learn a thing or two about bedside manner and compassion. Are you just waiting now for another SA in August before deciding what to do next? At our consultation at ARGC, the Dr noticed that DH had high abnormalities in his SA sample [not somthing that showed up in five other SA's] so we also discussed ICSI. It would be more expensive but if it could improve our chances of fertilisation, I'm going for it.

Wishing you the best.


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## aquapinkdog

Hi Bubbs,
Is the monitored cycle expensive and how often do you have to go up to ARGC?

We are going to an open evening at Hammersmith tonight and then one at Lister next Thursday. The thing I want to get my head round at Lister is they have a satellite clinic in the next town, which is open in evenings, which would be perfect, but it's not open every night, and I don't get how they do all the scans/bloods when they are not there every day Must work, otherwise they wouldn't have it, I guess.

We won't make any decisions for definite I guess until August when we get the next SA results. Hopefully there will be some miraculous transformation in quality, but I doubt it. AF showed up today. We have found a clinic that does private SA tests so will go there I think.

Keep us updated on your progress at ARGC. Hopefully something will happen naturally for you before Sep!
Fx


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## Bubblicious

For the monitored cycle, we pay for each of the components seperately.  I think Lister had an all-in price.  So far I've paid £120 for the CD1-3 hormone profile, I will pay £110 for the scan and I'm not sure about the progesterone test but it should be cheaper than the first blood panel.

I had IUI at The Lister and was there about three/four times per cycle.  I'm not sure how much more closely you are monitored for an IVF/ICSI cycle though.

Hope your clinic visits help you make up your mind as to where you want to go.  Keep in touch.


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## Bubblicious

Aquapinkdog, how are you? Have you decided on the clinic you're going with yet?

After much deliberation, I think we might be starting treatment this cycle. I have slightly raised immunes which hopefully can be treated with steroids but all other tests have come back fine. I'm just waiting to call the clinic today with a whole lot of questions and then I might be ordering my nasal spray to start DR this Friday. I'm kind of scared that I have gone from being mentally totally unprepared to just spontaneously [or so it seems] deciding to just go with the flow.


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## aquapinkdog

Bubblicious said:


> Aquapinkdog, how are you? Have you decided on the clinic you're going with yet?
> 
> After much deliberation, I think we might be starting treatment this cycle. I have slightly raised immunes which hopefully can be treated with steroids but all other tests have come back fine. I'm just waiting to call the clinic today with a whole lot of questions and then I might be ordering my nasal spray to start DR this Friday. I'm kind of scared that I have gone from being mentally totally unprepared to just spontaneously [or so it seems] deciding to just go with the flow.


Hi Bubbs, 
How exciting!!!!
I think you are doing it the right way. What's the point in waiting?
How are you getting on?
I will keep absolutely everything crossed for you.

I think if DH's SA results haven't improved when he tests in August we are going to go with Lister. The success results are vv close to Hammersmith, but Lister has someone who can do the scans/bloodtests at a private hospital in the next town, which will mean I only have to go to Chelsea twice. Also he does them in the evening, so it will be a lot easier with DS and work than trying to fit it in the daytime. I was concerned that he only works Mon/Thurs nt and Sat morning, but the nurse reassured me that it works fine.

Keep us updated on how you are doing.

Love Fx


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## Bubblicious

Just wondering how you are, Aquapinkdog.

The Lister is a great hospital. The staff are lovely and made me feel very comfortable. My consultant there, James Nicopoullos was really good at explaining how things worked and was forever positive which was refreshing. The only reason we didn't go there for IVF is that we are unexplained and wanted to go somewhere with a more comprehensive set of further tests, hence ARGC. As you know what your issue is, I think it would be perfect for you.

I'm down-regging at the moment [it's been two weeks of sniffing] and my DR scan showed a good number of small follies and a thin lining which is just what they want to see at this stage however, my blood tests indicated that my natural hormones aren't surpressed enough so I've had to up my dose of nasal spray and I go back tomorrrow for a further blood test. I then have a hysteroscopy provisionally booked for Monday AM and hope to start stimming on Monday evening. It's all a bit info-overload at the moment but taking it a step at a time makes it a bit easier.

Hope you are okay.


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