# Poor response - shall I give up?



## Sweets (Jun 28, 2006)

Hi everyone

i was posting on the Lister girls list but I need some advice from golden oldies.  

This is all so much harder than I anticipated.  My partner and I were advised to try for ICSI as he has difficulties with motility, count and abnormalities.  I have to say that I would prefer not to have to go down the ICSI front with all the risks involved and my age and possible poor egg quality but we tried last month.  However, I responded poorly to drugs only two folllies and one cyst on other ovary. So we tried IUI and of course it didn't work.

I just don't know whether to try for ICSI again.  There seems to be sooo much against us - although I am fit and look much younger than 42 - my age is a huge concern and the fact that my partner's sperm is also of poor quality.  I feel really down about this - I never even thought we wouldn't even get past the first hurdle and I just don't know what to do.  we're going for a follow-up consultation next week but I get the distinct feeling that we're really kidding ourselves thinking that this might ever work an dwe might just as well be buying lottery tickets.  
I'm finding this so upsetting and the process itself is making me feel so old and tired!
#Help!

Sweets


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## Helen66 (Nov 18, 2003)

Sweets,

Oh hun I know where your coming from with the age thing, I am 40 and have just been given one last chance at the ttc side of things with another 6mth of Clomid of which I have already had three so I only have 3 month left and if I don't get pg this time I never will.

As for the age thing I am going through that one at the minute, should I take the last 3 mth and go through the heartache of maybe not getting pg yet again or not.  Then it always comes to the crunch, af arrives the Clomid is sitting there and I can't help myself I just have to take it.  A waste of time I think!  No I have to be lucky at some point so I keep trying.  Then there is the age thingy, I am 40 I feel old should I keep on at this or not?

But hunny when it comes to the crunch I reckon it is a question of how much do you want this baby.  Because I want it so much I keep going.

My advice from what you have said is that you obviously long for this child as much as all of us long for our child/ren.  Keep going hun it has to happen sooner or later that is my phylosophy anyway.  Don't know if I spelt that right but you know what I meant.  Hang on in there girl, fight the good fight there is always alot of support here for you.  Good luck hun.  

Love Helen
xxx


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## Ellie.st (Mar 11, 2005)

Dear Sweets

I am really sorry to hear about your last cycle.  As another ancient 42-year old who has had three cycles starting when I was 41, I understand how you feel, and I have to say too that I sympathise with you saying that the tx has made you feel old, as I found it really hard on my system too. I remember looking at myself in the mirror and thinking how much I had aged over just one cycle. But you will feel better (and younger again) I promise, as the drugs work their way out of your system.

Only you can know when you feel that enough is enough, but I would suggest that you use your follow-up appointment to ask about how they might change your protocol to see if you can get a better response.  I am also personally convinced that it's worth you and your partner trying supplements and changes to diet etc (if you haven't tried these already).

There is no doubt that the chances of success do go down as you get older.  I was told my chances of success on my third cycle were less than 5% (and I personally felt that they were zero but that I needed to try a third time just so I wouldn't think later "what if ...?").  I also felt that we were kidding ourselves that it could ever work. However, here I am now, extremely lucky to be 20 weeks pregnant after a total of 9 years ttc without even the whiff of a BFP.  I know that we are so, so lucky to be in this situation and that it was far more likely that we would have ended up with another failed cycle.  But I do think that there is alot to be said for feeling that you have given it your best shot.  

My advice would be to have plenty questions ready for your follow-up appointment, and get yourself as well armed as possible with things you can try to do yourself to improve your chances.  Then you can decide whether you want to try again, or if you feel that you have already given it your best shot and that it's time to move on.  Only you can decide.  But please don't write yourself off just because you are 42!

Hope this helps a bit.  

Best wishes

Ellie


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## allison kate (Aug 9, 2005)

Sweets hunni   so sorry to hear you sounding so down and confused.  Us goldies do understand how you are feeling, that bl*dy clock forever ticking and the feelings don't get any less, do they  

I would definately say use your follow up appointment to get as much information as possible about your protocol and how it can be changed.  I.E higher dose of drugs, short protocol instead of long, different drug combination.  Do you know what your FSH level is?  As Ellie says there are so many other complimentary things you can do to help (please forgive me if you're doing them already)  definately lots of vitamins, no caffine, acupuncture (I've managed to get my FSH down from 9 to 5.8 by doing these).  And also DH, I've heard some amazing stories on here of DH's increasing their swimmers ten-fold by taking things like Wellman.

I think what I'm trying to say hunni is there is still so many possibilites and you are NOT too old, look at Ellie's amazing story.  IVF is a lottery ticket for us all hunni but we still all have the possibility to win, if we keep trying.  I wish you all the luck in the world that your dreams come true 

Allison xxx


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## Sweets (Jun 28, 2006)

Hello everyone and thank you for your replies.

Helen - thanks for the positive vibes.  Wishing you lots of luck too.

Ellie - Wow!  congratulations!  good to hear there are some good outcomes.  thanks for your last sentence especially - trying my best to remain young at heart but it sure is a testing time.

Allison - Thank you too for all the info. and lovely fairydust.  My FSH was 8.2 but the oestradiol was a little high at 333, so maybe my FSH was higher than it appeared.  Anway, I've had another blood test and am awaiting the results.
Wishing you lots of luck too.  it's not an easy business but you do sound much more courageous than I feel ! 

Sweets x


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## sugary (Feb 17, 2006)

Hi Sweets
A big hug to you, know just how you feel, i didn't feel at all old before i started Tx but the clinics don't help harping on about age! a feel ancient, I don't think feeling mentally down helps either (and denying myself things makes it worse...alcohol,caffeine etc i know it's not good for you but its bloody hard to give them up!) try not to despair, keep going till you know the time is right, or of course until you get pregnant (lets be postive eh?!!!!)
Lots of love
sugary
xxxx


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## Jane-K (Apr 1, 2006)

Hi All,

I just thought id add tell you about my experience as a "poor responder", my first ivf cycle was abandoned because of my poor response with 5amps of Menopur.
I had 7amps on my second attempt & on top of my normal 10 days I had to have an extra 3 days of Menopur cause I didn't respond very well but I managed 3 eggs, 2 of which fertilised, sadly it was a BFP.
At that time the Liverpool Womens Hosp did not count an abandoned cycle so I still had one more cycle left but when I went to discuss this I was told the PCT had changed the rules & abandoned cycles now counted plus 5 amps of Menopur was the most you could have, due to these changes I wasn't being offered another cycle and that going on the waiting list for donor eggs was my only option.
After a much heated discussion I was allowed to proceed one more time, this time on 8amps of Menopur, as with the last time I didn't respond well, by day 10 of Menopur I had 4 follicles, all less than 12, i was given an extra 3 days of injections & returned for a scan but again they were still classed as too small. Because this was my last attempt they decided not to abandon this cycle but to continue with the injections for another 2 days.
At EC I managed 4 eggs, one of which fertilised & I got my BFP!!!!!

My consultant was very direct with me & said I was only being offered the final cycle because Id made such a song & dance about it & that my chances of success were virtually nil, to quote "It'll take a miracle for you to become pregnant with your own eggs".

It does only take one & I would urge anyone not to give up 
Miracles do happen 
Jane


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## Midgey (Mar 20, 2006)

Hi Sweets
Like most of us on this journey, you start out saying I'll do one cycle and when that fails, you do another one - then it's crunch time, do you go down that route again or think of other options.  

I had 2 really miserable ivf cycles - really poor ovarian response on quite a high dose of menopur and so both were cancelled.  I was adament that that was that, and we are considering DE.  

However, I've just had a myomectomy to remove a fibroid which our consultant recommended if we were to proceed along the DE route.  He's a lovely consultant and not my original guy (different clinic).  He suggested I had all the blood tests done again and they've come back normal (fsh8.1).  If he didn't know about my first 2 failed attempts he would certainly recommend I go down the IVF route!!!  I don't think anyone wants to say to you "forget about it - move on" - because as can be seen from all these threads a 1% chance is a 1% chance!  

My husband and I were comparing it to that programme Deal or No Deal - there's 1 chance to pick the £250k box out of 20 boxes ie a 5% chance - I certainly know that I'd never choose the right box on my first go (but some people would)!  But I might do the more goes I had!  .  

Good luck to you on making your decision


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## geegee (Nov 5, 2006)

Sweets - it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings (preferably fat from being pregnant, right?!)

I made a conscious decision to quit trying at 30 and have spent the last 9 years free of all the appointments, the tests, the drugs, the hope, the fear etc.

Now approaching 40 and with lovely DP, I never thought I'd embrace the whole process again but find myself wishing and hoping along with all at FF - and it feels right.

Being a goldie just means we have more experience of life - and yes, our bodies may not respond as well as maybe 10 years ago but it only takes 1 egg and 1 sperm just the same as any other.

None of us know what's round the corner so just do what feels right - 'cos you never know your luck.


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