# Repeated IVF failure - have I missed something?



## benaboo (Jan 22, 2012)

I've done some reading but would appreciate if any of you ladies have any suggestions...

I've now tried IVF, laparoscopy to remove endo, another IVF cycle, then NK profiling, treatment with Humira x2 and steroids, then ICSI (with endometrial scratch and intralipids, clexane) then FET with low dose aspirin, scratch, intralipids, steroids, clexane). Each time except the FET I've had 2 good quality embies (blasts or morula)put back, only had one frozen to put back. Two of the IVF were long protocol, one short. Not a sniff of a BFP. I've done acupuncture, yoga, organic eating, exercise, not exercise, and for two of the cycles my BMI was normal - I've now put on a stone and a bit -  partly due to the drugs and disappointment!

I'm very lucky to have a five yr old daughter conceived naturally, less lucky to have grade 4 endo and scarring from c section which I think could be contributing. I had cysts on one ovary on two of the cycles.

I think I'm done - no money or energy left - and I feel there is nothing I could change except perhaps donor eggs - but it seems like eggs aren't the problem, so would it be worth it? 

Any wisdom very much appreciated

X x x


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## Josie1 (Sep 30, 2013)

Hi I think donor eggs are a way forward if you have quality issues which you don't seem to have.

Did you have the scratch each time? That's said to help with implantation x


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## Beandreaming (Sep 14, 2012)

Hi Benaboo,  

Have a look at Mr S hetata at The Miscarriage Clinic, the name of the clinic doesn't reflect exactly what he does....I think he has lots of experience in dealing with infertility after live birth.  

Unfortunately it may just be a numbers game and you just have to keep trying.

Good luck

Xx


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## cosmopolitan4112008 (Oct 18, 2013)

Maybe  the embryo (s) were not genetically ok. In addition,  perhaps you have developed certain immune issues against your husband's antibodies that obstruct the implantation.


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## benaboo (Jan 22, 2012)

Thanks for all your responses - very much appreciated. Only had the scratch done on the last 2 cycles Josie1, I don't think they offered it before. I do have the immune issues, but I don't think there is much else out there to treat them other than Humira and steroids Cosmo? I think the name of the clinic has disappeared from yr post  Beandreaming, I'll have a google.

Thanks again to you all


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## Ashaa (Apr 3, 2013)

Hi Benaboo

My goodness you have tried everything. 

My story slightly similar to yours so kinda know how it feels

I have a 4 yr old daughter conceived naturally. All tests normal, no immune issues, nothing wrong.. Well at least they haven't found anything wrong with me and DH.
On our 2nd ivf , I had LH injections as well. We used embryo glue and had endo scratch done.. Unfortunately didn't work for me but we had a terrible round last time.. You never know it could help you though.

Best if luck and please update what you decide . I will be very interested to know before I start my 3rd round of ivf.

God bless.

X


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## Hbkmorris (Apr 7, 2010)

Oh Benaboo, 

I think you and I are in the same boat my dear..   

I like you have had 5 transfers ranging from IVF/ICSI and FET all with the same negative result. 

I have also gone down the testing for immunes and have had two cycles with the immunes package, scratch etc and it also turned out to be the same negative result. I even thought my ex was the problem so used donor sperm and again.. same result. 

Since then I've had a hysto and that was all clear so have had to make the biggest decision in my life and result to looking at donor eggs although my eggs fertilise, make perfect 3 day embies and blasts and always has some to freeze.. My consultant is truly scratching his head wondering what else it could be, what can I do different. 

I have one tube clipped and the other partial blocked, I decided to give one last consultant a fresh look at my bits and he has given me some hope BUT I still think i'll be trying the donor route despite everything seeming perfect. Basically the BMI consultant has told me that due to my right tube being partially blocked it could still be hydrosalpinx and why on earth didn't the first hospital/consultant clip both.. he said that small pockets of fluid could still seep from that tube and the smallest amount could kill the embryo's regardless. Now I'm more concerned as to why two other clinics haven't mentioned this as all they kept throwing at me was it's a number's game.. can't work out why, maybe you've chromosome problems.. although everything test I've had to date say's all is ok. 

I feel for you with all my heart as I know this next cycle end of the year will be my last due to finances but before that I shall be having the other tube clipped and my wonderful GP has referred me to him as an NHS patient although he is within a private BUPA clinic.. I still have two frosties and 8 eggs from 2012 which I shall leave as back up as I truly need to give my last shot the best possible outcome and young eggs from a donor is the only way. 

I wish you all the best and love to everyone else who's posted... darn IVF just isn't fair from where I'm sitting and I guess you feel the same xxx


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## cosmopolitan4112008 (Oct 18, 2013)

You haven't tried neupogen. 
It's crucial to prepare for body before the transfer. If it's fet, then even 3-5 weeks prior to the transfer.  Then, once you get+, you should be monitored,  to see if the meds should be adjusted. I'm against giving the meds upon the dr's estimation,  without the blood tests that would prove the action. 
At some point,  you might need ivig as well.
All of this is from my personal experience.


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## purplepeak (Jan 31, 2012)

Possibly a hysteroscopy? Serum in Greece do one which is therapeutic as well as diagnostic, i.e. they'll sort out any problems while they're there. They also do implantation cuts at the same time, which are like the scratch but more intensive. 

Also neupogen. 

Good luck!


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## Hbkmorris (Apr 7, 2010)

Ladies can I ask you when you took neupogen? I had a consultation with Dr Gorgy who said taking prednisolone & neupogen would work against each other so I'm just trying to work out where that fitted in with immunes package x


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## Blondie71 (Oct 26, 2011)

Hi Benaboo,

Another thing you might consider any fluid or hydrosalpinx in tubes or uterus? that can really hinder implantation an ultrasound can usually confirm fluid or not x


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## Tincancat (Mar 19, 2012)

Hi Benabo
May I ask how old you are?  Embryos can look good under microscope and still be 'duff'.  Sadly there is no getting away from age factor.  If you form lots of embryos have you considered PGD to look at chromosomes of embryos before putting them back?
TC x


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## cosmopolitan4112008 (Oct 18, 2013)

I was taking both together, I mean every day but at different times. I will check my calendar and will let you know when I started each of these. I stopped neupogen at 12 w and I'm going to stop prednisone at 20.


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## cosmopolitan4112008 (Oct 18, 2013)

Don't forget I'm talking about fet.
So, I checked my calendar.  I started neupogen, prednisone and clexane on the same day -15 days prior to the transfer.
If you are going for fresh transfer,  go to the blog www.compromised-fertility.blogspot.com. the lady was followed by my dr, but had fresh transfer. She put the schedule of her protocol there. However,  she didn't have prednisone. But as I told you from my personal experience,  they are fine together. I believe they complement each other if administrated properly, time-wise and quantity-wise.


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## cosmopolitan4112008 (Oct 18, 2013)

Since you are 39, I would recommend day 5 transfer on genetically tested embryos. We had ours tested by array cgh. I'm 33, but due to some conditions in the family, we wanted to make sure they were healthy. We used to have many blastocysts,  but only a couple or three healthy.


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## purplepeak (Jan 31, 2012)

Hi Hbk,

I had prednisolone and neupogen from day 1 of stimms. This time, for an upcoming FET, I had prednisolone from day 3 (of my period), then GCSF from day 9. But I know that at my clinic (Serum) those dates vary if there are greater immune issues / endo problems. The GCSF is supposed to be esp good if you have any endo. 

I am interested that Dr Gorgy said pred and neupogen would work against each other. What was his reasoning? I'd be great to know more what he said if there was any more? I heard somewhere on this forum (I forget where, I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure it was a Serum thread) that Dr Braverman has now stopped giving pred and neupogen together but I understood that was because their effects would *combine*, i.e. potentially suppressing the immune system more than was required. 

Good luck to all. 

P.


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## Hbkmorris (Apr 7, 2010)

Thank you ladies, I saw Dr Gorgy back in 2012 after I left my first clinic. Originally I was going to see him about the immunes testing but then I found out that my private clinic in the midlands could do them a lot cheaper so decided to go with them but as I'd already paid for the consultation I thought I'd ask him lots of questions and this was one of them. He told me that the affects of taking pred & neup wouldn't be of any benefit to me. He went on to say that Pred super seeds that of neup and in some ways can counter act what pred is infact doing to aid immunes and implantation. 

I then asked my clinic who also said they don't advise using both and even asked the overseas clinic I'm in contact with for DE so I'm left scratching my head wondering how some clinics advise it with positive preg results and some don't who also get positive preg results.. Confused.com now!. I'm going to see if I can find my notebook I used when I went to see Dr Gorgy.. it's got to be somewhere.. but where I've no idea!. 

xx


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## cosmopolitan4112008 (Oct 18, 2013)

Why don't you ask dr. Braverman directly? Go to his website and adk him. I had the transfer in November and as I told you,  he gave me both meds together. However,  if he had changed something,  he would tell you.


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## benaboo (Jan 22, 2012)

Thank you all for taking the time to reply! I'm overwhelmed! 

I wasn't going to bother with the follow up appt, but now I think I will and take all your suggestions. I haven't heard of neupogen at all, and had t considered hydrosalpinx. I'm off to do some googling now! 

I'm 34, so had my first IVF at 32. I'm not sure I can face doing it all again, so considering adoption, but think the process would be even worse - although with better chance if success.

Big hugs to you all  thanks for your time and good luck x x x


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## Blondie71 (Oct 26, 2011)

you know hydrosalpinx jumped out at me when you said you had cysts, they kept telling me I had cysts too during follicle scans etc and it wasn't it was hydros/fluid that never went away, I would never have got pg if i didnt remove my tubes as the fluid was killing any embryos off, after removal I went for FET and pg with twins straight away! Could have saved a fortune if I'd removed them at the start tho  hindsights a wonderful thing eh lol


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## Beandreaming (Sep 14, 2012)

Hi Benaboo,

They removed my recommendation.  I'll spell his name backwards for you:

Atatehs rd 

Google him and on the clinic website there are interesting case histories.

I haven't been to see him so this isn't a recommendation on experience but if my March IVF fails I am going to see him before the next round.

Good luck x


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## benaboo (Jan 22, 2012)

That's very interesting bean dreaming as he is at my clinic - Epsom. He sat in on one of my consultations but he didn't really say much! 

Hmmmmm, more thinking.

Good luck!


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## Beandreaming (Sep 14, 2012)

I think it is £200 for a consultation with him.  If you are on the cusp of giving up I'd be keen to at least speak to him if it was me, but then my DH says I am obsessed and I am guessing it is different spending all the money when you already have a DD.

I wonder if you can find anyone who has seen him to see what they thought?

Have you looked at ARGC site as well?  

I've got one NHs cycle left so I'm doing my research now to see where I'm going to go if it doesn't work.  Hoping it doesn't come to that though.

Good luck to you, hope you get your second baby.  

Xxx


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## Blondie71 (Oct 26, 2011)

Haha JW1975 no disrespect but I think that approach is a tad insulting to most women on this board, it's like that old china "you just have to relax" and it'll happen   we're here because IT IS last resort for most of us


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