# The stupid things people say....



## beachgirl

A few people have PM'd me to ask what happened to the previous thread  etc etc...the last thread got a little heated and I had to ask Admin to review it and decide what best to do...they've now done that and so we've got a nice new thread to start over again....whilst this is a thread mainly for those who've had/have negative cycles please remember that it can be viewed by anyone on FF and all the general public so please also have consideration for others


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

Thanks Beachgirl. It did get rather heated over something that was originally meant to be interpreted in a way that it sadly wasn't. Very difficult with emails and posts and it sometimes happens.

Never mind  - onwards we go. Live and learn. Enough said   

My boss is being a bit off about me having more treatment over the summer.

Not sure how to take what she said today. I was in a catch up meeting and I told her that I would be having more treatment and I would need support. She told me that I had to think about whether I could maintain my service with summer leave etc and if it was going to be a struggle she would leave it up to me to decide what I ''should'' do.

Is that support but no support? Or that she can't tell me not to have treatment because she does not want to get the blame for me getting to the point that it is too late for me to be a mum.

She basically has put the ball in my court to let the team down or do the right thing and wait 3 months - at 39 I don't have extra months to waste.

Should I just be selfish and go ahead in July?


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## daxcat

Hi Hazel, if I was you I'd go ahead in July. Your boss seems to be asking you to delay further treatment but if you leave it you hit another fertility milestone - the big 40. At our age we can't afford to just leave it!! 
It could make things uncomfotable at work -but this could be the time it happens for you.


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## beachgirl

Hazel    it's hard isn't it as your boss has a job to do and also her own manager to answer to...is there anyone else that could help cover for the summer?


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## Irish Dee

Hello lovely ladies,

Glad to see that this board is back up and running.

Looking forward to seeing everyone back on here.

Dee


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## charlie_44

Hi all   just bookmarking really.

Hazel - I hope you come to a decision without too much stressful thinking.  I know how stressful it is as it happened to me.  After much worrying and head scratching I did what was right for me - my (now ex) boss didn't care if I didn't have a baby but I did.

 to all.


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## MissBabs

Hi, i hope you don't mind me jumping in here, i've just had my first ever bfn so am feeling a bit    hence investigating the neg cycle board.

I just wanted to say to Hazel - YES!!!  Be selfish and have your tx in July!!  You need to do what's best for you, do not worry about work.  I know that to most of us our jobs are important and i'm sure the work you do is crucial to the company and it's service users, however your quest to start a family is more important!!!  E.g. I knew that if i got pg on this cycle that i'd have been absent for next year end (i work in payroll and this is a huge deal with lots of extra work & statutory deadlines etc) however i had to prioritise my own need to start a family over the needs of my employer.  I'm 37, 38 in Nov and know how it feels when it seems that 'time is running out'. 

I honestly think that if you let your boss bully you into postponing it once she'll feel that she can ask you to do it again, and again.  Do let me know if i'm speaking out of turn, i really just wanted to say please don't let work dictate your decision.

                             

Miss Babs x


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## coweyes

Hopeful Hazel


Hi we always bump into each other.   


Its a difficult one to answer, i dont know in what context in was said in so its hard to comment.  But have your employers been good to you on your previous cycles? also how much time off do you think you will need? eg how much would it effect the company?


If your personally in charge of sorting out Summer cover then i would think the statement was quite reasonable (unless i have read it wrong).  When she said i shall leave it up to you to decide what you should do, i would not take that she was talking about you having tx, but about you looking at ways of covering it? If it was do able? Or have i missed the point? If your unsure or unsettled by her comment then i would just ask her to clarify it.


If she did mean the tx and your plan is to have time off that would effect the Summer cover, think about how you could come to a complimise so all parties are happy. Eg doing it a bit before or after the Summer, i know its not ideal but you do want to keep your employers happy. I think both parties need to be reasonable about it, i am sure you can sort it out.  Good luck


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

Unfortunately I don't work in a company, I manage a small team of 4 pharmacists (3 whole time equivalents) that cover a 32 bedded intensive care unit in a busy NHS hospital.
There are 6 pharmacists leaving the hospital in the next couple of weeks. I have lost one of my own staff already due to various circumstances and I only have 1 1/2 other members of staff for my team apart from me, and one of us is off every week from the beginning of August to the beginning of September. If I have treatment starting in July then I will need to have egg collection and embryo transfer when one of my staff is off, only leaving one other person to cover all the beds on her own and she is only meant to work for me 1/2 time. What we do is very complex and it would be unfair and pretty awful to leave someone on their own for a week or so. 

I was in so much pain after egg collection last time that there is no way I could have worked for the first 3 days, anyway in my job I am not allowed to work for 24 hours after intravenous sedation as I sign legal documents all day. I am taking my embryos to blast this time if I can, so this will mean a second period of time I need off. I usually work at home and take a day of annual leave so I can have 72 hours resting after ET.

There is no slack in the system, particularly due to summer leave, but also because of the 6 leaving and the current vacancy freeze in the NHS due to the 10% cuts we have to find.

I am starting to think that if I go ahead with treatment, my professional responsibilites and the worry about my patients and how they will be cared for will make it too stressful. I might be better off waiting - it will give me another month for weight loss and I am starting the mind body course at the Bridge tomorrow - so it will give me more time to nurture my mind and body and be really ready.


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## Nina Jane

Hi Hazel,  Just started looking at this thread - hoped i'd never have to touch this site.  I also work for the NHS and one thing I've learnt over the past few months is that they will take all they can from you, but they can survive when you are not there.  Ultimately this is your decision and it should not be dictated by anyone else.  If you were having any other form of surgery you would have to take time off.  If a member of your staff came to you with the same issue, what would you say to them.  You must put yourself first.  Work will always be there!!!
Best wishes, whatever you decide
Nina


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## willsmum

Hi everyone,
                Just wanted to say how much im missing all you ladies on this thread. Your helpfull and like minded comments got me through a really tough patch   .
After what went on, on this thread It seems that people arnt posting anymore and thats a real shame. 
To be perfectly honest i didnt know whether i would be able to post here after what went on because i felt really "let down" but weeks have past and like i said before, I really miss you ladies!
So here i go!
A couple of months ago i complained to my pct, due to their system on nhs funded ivf (basically i was ****** cos they wont give me another go cos ive had more than 2 self funded cycles) It was a really profesional letter with facts and ficures ect!
Anyway i got my reply which in a roundabout way said" we are not going to give you any more funded ivf because we think its a waste of our money due to the fact that it wont work"   
Er hello, It has worked twice before and if they hadnt have made me wait until id had 3 miscarriages before they tested me, then maybe my pregnancies would have gone full term.

I was sooo angry, how dare they, they obviosly didnt read my history and any way even if id had 10 unsuccesful attemps, what am i not worthy of a little government funding.
god knows i have paid my fare share in to this country and had sod all back!!!!!

Needless to say i am appealing!

Thanks for listening    and glad to be back 

WillsmumXXXXXXXXXXX


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## Tama

I haven't posted for a while since everything happened as I felt it was partly my fault for posting how I felt   but as we have started a fresh I thought I'd pop back to say hello   

Willsmum I really feel for you hun, seems unfair to tell you that they don't think it will work - how the hell do they know that - are they God?   Like you say it has worked before. I really hope you get it sorted out with them   

Hope all you lovely ladies are okay


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## beachgirl

Tama    lovely to hear from you?  How are things?


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

Don't even get me started on the NHS funding issue!

I am not entitled to any NHS infertility treatment because my husband allegedly got another woman pregnant 4 years before I met him!
Just because I met him and married him has stopped me being entitled to treatment.
I am not a mother - so why? I pay my taxes, so why am I excluded?

Since my husband has non obstructive azoospermia then I am not sure how he got this woman pregnant. When I said this to the PCT they said the only way to reverse the decision was to get the child DNA checked.

I pointed out that after all we had been through it would not be pretty and bloody terrible for the child as we had fought so hard to get access through the courts and it would be utterly detrimental to the child (being a responsible adult in this) to go down that route and they said that I could take it or leave it.

Makes me sick!

This is especially as the NICE guidelines are supposed to remove the post code lottery and it is clear to me that they want to come up with as many local criteria as possible to exclude patients. This is not fair and not the purpose of the NICE guidelines. Normally there is no choice when implementing NICE - we have to do it for everything else. But it is clear to me that still people do not believe that infertility is a terrible debilitating condition. It is not important to lots of people including those in charge of the budgets. It is also scary to them the shear numbers of people needing help.

What is more the minister for health said that priority would be given to couples without a child living with them and the PCTs have twisted this to mean no living child anywhere for either partner which is completely different.

Some people are getting 3 cycles and some of us get none. You aren't allowed to help yourself in the mean time whilst waiting - goodness if the private cycle worked this would save money!

And in some places you are ineligible if you are under 35, in some places you are ineligible if you are over 35.

How do they decide this? - the NICE guidelines says all women 23-39 that are infertile should be offered 3 cycles on the NHS.


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## coweyes

Hi all


What planet have i been on!!! I used to be on this thread all the time and have no idea what anyone's talking about!! obviously something negative has happened or been said.  If it was anything that i ever said then i am totally oblivious and of course sorry.  I would be heart broken to think that i had hurt someone.


Anyway, i have been lucky enough to have 2  cycles on the nhs, but i think its totally unfair how its done and that the same rules should count across every pct. xxxxxxx


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## JasmineX

Bookmarking. I wondered where this thread had gone - missed it! AlsoI have no idea what happened, but glad its back.

I went through a few weeks of depression over everything IF related, and finally saw a counsellor yesterday. I explained how I had cut myself off from a lot of old friends because I was so sick of being asked "How's it going?". I mean what exactly is the answer to that if they can SEE you are not pregnant and know you have been trying for years? Anyway she suggested that I ask those friends not to ask me about it, and explain that it not something I want to talk about at the moment, so I am thinking about e-mail people as I can't even bear to say it to their faces.

I am still worried they will all think I am a mardy cow if I do that, but it seems like a good option to avoid losing them altogether.

Anyone else felt the same/had the same problem?

Hope you are all OK   

Jasmine
XXXXX


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## coweyes

Jasmine


I am sorry to hear that you have been feeling down.  Yes i have felt the same, i also stopped socialising for several months as i could not cope with everyone else's happiness when i felt so god dame angry with life.  Somehow i stopped being so angry and wound up and started to re see my friends.  My true friends were just worried about me and said they were there for me.  I kept in contact with the occasional text but like you could not bring myself to meet up.


I think your councillor is right, i think you need to set the seane!  People don't know what to say or do for the best, hence for why they often get it wrong   .  They will probably be relived that they know where they stand.  Dont be difficult about it, just say it how it is.  Or just say tbh i would rather not talk about it, i have said that before and people are honestly fine, the balls then in your court.  Please don't worry about it, anyone who is majority bothered by it or are difficult about it, need to be reconsidered as friends.  Try to take the pressure of yourself by only really bothering with proper friends and let the rest just drift away.  I have done this and its made my life a lot easier.


xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## beachgirl

Jasmine    that's a good idea that your counsellor has suggested...it's horrid isn't it when people ask you...I never know what to say   

Off on holiday so won't be around to mod for a couple of weeks but any problems just shout to the admin team or one of the others mods..x


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## ceci.bee

Hi everyone

have also been missing this thread and really pleased it is back.

Hazel have to echo what Nina said - also have worked for the NHS for 10 years (!) and she is right they will bleed you dry but actually cope when you aren't there, and you have to do what is right psychologically for you - I think lots of people who work in the NHS go into it because they like helping others, which is fab, but means they are not very good at prioritising themselves which is not so good. I know I fit that mentality and have had to work hard on it with my counsellor!

Jasmine - I know what you mean about always being asked - we got asked so much that it wasn't funny, and did not want to snap at anyone, so just put out a big message that we have a problem, it is very difficult, we don't want to talk about it and we will tell/talk when ready. It worked and we don't now get too much hassle apart from new friends or colleagues    it is difficult I know.

Just wanted to add to the 'stupid things people say' - I am moving jobs and a friend at the new job was asked by a colleague about me - apparently because I am a medic and don't have children then she is not going to bother to get to know me !!! I don't even know what she looks like and she has already judged me on my occupation and infertility !!! sorry was so cross am now going to avoid her when I start new job   

love hugs and   
beachgirl have a fab holiday!
lots of love
C


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## JasmineX

Hi everyone

Well I thought I would let you know I had had my first e-mail response from a friend. She was lovely - she said she was glad it wasn't anything she had said or done, and wanted to support me in any way possible. If that meant not mentioning it,  then she is fine with it, and is just looking forward to seeing me again.

Hurrah!!! I wasn't sure if it would "work" but seems like it has. I feel so relieved.

Now I need to tell the others...

Ceci - I'm not surprised you don't even want to meet this person. She sounds so shallow, I don't think she'd be a very good friend anyway. And as for judging people without children...so many people do that, without even considering the reason WHY someone might not have children. Grrrr. Don't let her get to you   

Hi to everyone else

 
Jasmine
XXXXX


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## ceci.bee

Jasmine great news about your message - am sure your friends now know a bit, they can be supportive without being insensitive. think you are v brave and that is brill you got such a positive response   

C


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## coweyes

Jasmine.  Well done that was a really brave thing to do, and it paid off.  Its so easy just to end up angry that people dont understand, or just preseave they dont understand!  I bet your friends feel pleased that you confinded in them. xxxxx

Sorry my spellings bad, its late and i have just worked a 12 hour day and can not be xssed to think of how to spell!! xxx


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## JasmineX

Thanks Coweyes and Cici.

I thought I would let you all know of another success. Last night a pregnant friend I haven't seen for a while asked how things were going and I answered "still work in progress" and when she asked if I was doing anything more on the medical side I explained that I didn't feel comfortable going into details, but I was glad she cared and had asked how I am.  She immediately apologized and it felt a tiny bit awkward but that faded away and I now feel completely relieved that I can meet up with her and know that she won't put me on the spot anymore.

In fact we are planning to meet next weekend and I haven't seen her in 5 months, because I've been too scared to   

"Work in progress" is my new answer to non-FF friends, so people know we are trying, but not anything more.

Hope you are all enjoying the weather

  to all

Jasmine
XXXXX


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## coweyes

Jamsine  I am so pleased for you as i know how isolating infer can be.  I have found that the less awkward i am about it the less awkward others are!  If i treat it a bit blasay (can not spell!) others treat it the same.  Good for you, you must feel a bit "freeer" another dodge spelling from me   . xxx


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## beachgirl

Just back from holiday so will catch up this weekend, hope you're all ok and well..


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## kitten77

ooooo can i steal your 'work in progress' line jasmine! 

i like that line! 

have been away for a bit, IF has really brought me down, but im back and hoping to get going in a few months (trying to move) and hope, new house, new baby as less stress! heres hoping!!!


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## JasmineX

Hi Kitten, 

Of course you can   . It seems to be working very well!!!  

I suffered a lot after my first cycle, and have ended up having to take 2 months off completely (at the recommendation of a counsellor) to try and pull myself together, and get back to my old happy self, before I try again. Turns out I need a hysteroscopy so looks like it won't be until October when I think about another go.

It affects us all differently - keep doing all the things you like and that make you happy, and remind yourself of everything good in your life (like lots of wonderful FFs to support you   ). Hope you feel better soon   

 

Jasmine
XXXXX


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## katie c

^mischief maker^ anyone else absoltely _dying_ to know what the deleted thread said? i never knew we had handbag situations of this forum 

jasmine - good for you on sending that email. i had a similar thing when i went for a coffee with a friend and confessed to her that her pre xmas get together felt like a big pile of poo, as apart from our friends who are a gay male couple, and her elderley neighbours, we were the only people there without a child.  but i then felt terrible admitting that as obviously she was in a rock/hard place situation. imagine how hurt we would have been had we not been invited for that very reason?

i felt awful telling her but she couldn't have been nicer. in fact she even noticed my hands were shaking and was so concerned.

as it happens the shaking hands were down to undiagnosed over active thyroid  but it still felt good getting it off my chest


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## coweyes

Its so tough i feel like i really want to be honest with my friends about how IF has and is effecting my life and more importantly my fears for the future.  But even from my best friends i feel a bit judged,  because she has no idea what it is like to be in this situation.  Its also very hard to know how much to say about how hard it is when others get pg, because this can really effect a friendship when they have children.  I think for me it just makes things feel so unnatural and as if my friends have to walk around on egg shells, but if i say nothing i risk people understanding me less!  If you know what i mean!!! xxx  The isolation is terrible x


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## ruthie1977

Hi ladies,

I've just been reading through some of the stupid things people say. Over the last 4 years I've heard a lot.

Of course people always tell you to relax & have a holiday. They probably don't realise that in the time we have been trying we have been -

Camping round France & Italy for 3 weeks,
2 skiing holidays
1 week in Santorini
3 differerent weeks in Cornwall
2 weeks in Croatia
plus various weekends away in england & abroad.

If only getting pregnant was as simple as going on holiday we would have about 15 children. 

My mother in law told me people who don't have children are more selfish.
My auntie told me not to have iui as it didn't work for her (15 years ago) & I wouldn't cope with it.
A friend has said 'are you sure you are doing it at the right time?'    

I could go on.

On a slighly positive note though. I work in the nhs & work have been great. My friends at work & home have been fantastic & I couldn't do it without them


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## Fraggles

Hi

I am pleased to see the thread back.

I got a pants bfn this week. I had those immortal words "if it's meant to be it will be" from someone trying to be sympathetic and supportive but these are not words I want to hear when I have just got a bfn thank you very much.    Tell me WTF are those words supposed to mean.

F x


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

They are words that someone can say that mean very little but gets them off the hook!

I was helpfully told that my baby died for a reason and wasn't meant to be. Yeah it died for a reason - it was sick. 

Sorry about your BFN - it is totally horrible and disappointing - and that does not really cover it!


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## Fraggles

HH

Those words were particularly helpful to you I suspect ....... not.


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## daxcat

Fraggles - so sorry about your BFN.   

Hopeful hazel - i found out that it wasn't a viable pregnancy by being told - "hopefully the baby will just die and be reabsorbed!" Nice way to find out as we still thought it was a normal pregnancy at that point!!!

XXX to everyone.


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## Fraggles

OMG Daxcat words fail me.

Am so sorry.


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## coweyes

Daxcat and Fraggles     


God i am having a pants evening.  Went to my mothers cos my brother was back and has just had a baby girl, the baby was not there but he and my other brother and her wife, who also have a one year old were talking about it pretty much non stop.  Me and my dh could not be involved in the conversation cos we have never had a child, just sat there feeling angry and bitter about it.  Just wanted to shout out, you don't have a blxxdy clue how lucky you are.

Got back home feeling really wound up, me and dh has a row earlier on in the day and not really on best of terms.  My dh said o my brother lend you a dvd its meant to be really funny.  Read the back of it and its about a 16 year old who gets pg and has it adopted, and its all about the funny things that go on with trying to find the correct adoptive parents, great!!! Thanks a lot


Feeling really wound up and pixxed of with the world today. xx


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## daxcat

Coweyes -   . Was the DVD Juno? I've been avoiding that one like the plague! How insensitive of them. XXX


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## Fraggles

Hi

I am posting having read a stupid thing another FF's friend said to her because I want to BTF out of her friend for her. FF from another thread upset because her friend has just announced she is having twins because she was inspired by FF and went straight to IVF by the sounds of it without trying naturally first.    Anyone tell me where I get the catalogue to order some babies, do you think I can arrange 48 hour delivery too?    

I am calling the peestick posse out of retirement to dish out suitable punishment for her.

F x


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## coweyes

Dexcat Yes it was! I said to my dh maybe he forgot, he said no we were talking about it today!  Think he has just not connected it to our situation, i shall not be watching it. xx


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

Fraggles - the PSP is ready and waiting.

Where is the catalogue? - I'll order one, or maybe two if they are on special offer!  

I went out with my friend last night and her whole world now revolves around her children. I know I can't stop her, but I so want to be part of it. I suppose I talk all the time about my infertility, so I also sound like a broken record.


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## coweyes

Fraggles


Really, would that not make the clinic irresponsible? Its a shame the ivf journey was just so easy for her!  I know that sounds cruel but its blxxdy difficult for the rest of us.  Anyway if she wishes to waste her money like that, let her get on with it, her life her choice.


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## Fraggles

Coweyes who knows though what patients who think IVF is a bit like going to the surgeon for a nip and tuck tells the clinic. They might not just say we want a baby NOW but then again perhaps they can, they might do the we've been trying for years ideas. I think its nuts. Personally I would rather if I could have a bit of rumpy pumpy the natural way rather than involve the needles, meds, a few people I don't know that well inspecting my lady garden area and the use of a a few petri dishes to put it bluntly.
F x


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## coweyes

Fraggles

But you have 2 have all the fertility tests first, dont know about anyone else but that took us about 9 months to a year and they were very unpleasent, one of the worst times of my life.  Think there has to be more to this story than is said.xx


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## Fraggles

Hi

Some clinics don't follow up on the tests or aren't that strict on it depending where you go.

Allegedly KP has been visiting IVF clinics and she hasn't been with her partner for a year.

Maybe if it is NHS there is a tougher regime of tests to follow because of ineligibility but if you are private paying client perhaps things are different.

F x


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## coweyes

Fraggles

Yer maybe
x


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## willsmum

Daxcat & coweyes,
                            Hope you dont mind me butting in but i also avoided the film juno for ages. But when i actually plucked up the courage to watch it i was really surprised. the preggers girl is sensible not a chavy bi**h who only wants a council flat! and it has a really nice ending. Its well worth a watch.

I know what you all mean about people being preoccupied with their kids. We have just started the fostering proccess so we are making a real effort to be round kids at the moment. But omg it is so hard. Please if i am ever blessed with kids i really dont want to be the sort of person who talks about them non stop.
We went out with a load of friends at the weekend and out of six couples there was only one other than us that didnt have kids. It was so nice to talk to them about grown up stuff like travel and fashion. The girl was asking me about me losing the baby and showing a real interest. I was telling her that ive just had some tests which show ive got an incompetant cervix, When one of the other women butted in and said "basically you have got a bucket crutch" she and the other women started laughing loudly. I quickly changed the subject because i was embarrased, but what a b***h, how is my baby dying a laughing matter. and what an    My cervix has nothing to do with my crutch. Just another ignorant c*w who has had her kids sooo easily and hasnt got a clue about the anatomy of it all!

Lou x


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## daxcat

Lou - poor you, what an insensitive cow to say something like that - big   's.


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## coweyes

Willsmum


Some people have no idea. xxxxxxxxx


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## beachgirl

Big hugs Willsmum


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## ceci.bee

Willsmum will come and    deck her personally for you that is shocking!!! poor you must have been so upset - really how insensitive can people be!

have just had a PM from a FF who had a MC recently and has been heartbroken but has gone back to work to try to put a brave face on things, and another FF told her 'she had got over the MC too quickly' - she of course has not got over it, but is single and trying to cope with being alive and earning a living    it made me so cross that someone on FF could say something like that was quite shocked! clearly someone who has not had a MC!

love to all
C


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

Willsmum - that person needs a kick in the crutch then maybe she would shut up. I don't know how rude or insenstive these people think they are?             

I think I would have screamed ''how dare you - that is one of the most evil things that anyone has ever said about the death of my baby - you should be ashamed of yourself''


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## Mousky

I hadn't noticed the thread had moved    I thought it was really quiet but sadly it isn't   


Sending loads of luck to all of you and sorry to hear about your BFNs     


ps. just went back to read everything and I got really puzzled by what happened to the other thread?    I'm sure no one will be able to tell me here but now I'm wondering if I also said something I shouldn't have said?


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

In brief, the other thread disappeared because someone who had already had a child through IVF was reading, got offended about what we were discussing about things people do, display and talk about when they have a child  that upsets us involuntary childless women. e.g. the great public celebrations of a birth that we cringe at and makes us feel so much worse. If people want to do that it is fine - they have something to celebrate - but it does not stop it ripping my heart out every time.

It got a bit heated over a misunderstanding of what was meant in the first place by some of it and it escalated needlessly.
In hindsight I don't think we had really considered that people with secondary infertility might be reading this thread.
It is a shame as we need a place where we can freely let off steam about things that upset us in daily life - but hey ho!
Now we have to watch what we say in case we offend anyone who might be reading.

Perhaps our so called friends, relatives and colleagues who say insensitive things could come and have a read and be offended! 

Mod - please feel free to delete this post if it is not politically correct to mention it or explain to those wondering!


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## Clomidia

Hi gals... came on to bookmark as I like to follow the thread...   

Then I remembered I had a story to add... went to a lovely wedding two weeks ago, it was a really lovely day and the bride and groom were v v happy. All in all a lovely time. Only downside was that we were the only couple at our table that didn't have children... so the conversation was a little bit... ummm... irrelevant, I suppose!! There were three couples, all with children, and then two "mothers" ie grandmothers who were also there. The woman next to me said hello and then the very next thing started talking about "my grandson calls me... blah blah blah" (I have mentally blocked this out!!) It is SOOOOO hard to keep a conversation going when everyone wants to talk about their children/grandchildren... 

I felt it was only my duty to drink as much wine as possible to get through it   

On the other hand, at the end of the night there was a huge queue in the ladies and my taxi was waiting outside so I was in a hurry. The girl in front was joking with me saying "oh no, you're not going ahead, just because you have a cab waiting/ kids to be put to bed etc etc" - so I said "well, I can't have children, will that help me skip the queue?"  We both laughed about it but she did - very kindly - let me go first    Perhaps she thought I was a complete   but hey ho, sometimes, as dh says, you've got to play the "infertility card"

 

PS Really hope that doesn't offend anyone, it's just that we are quite open about not being able to have kids ...


----------



## Fraggles

Clomidia

I think what you said makes sense. I find it so difficult when I get the do you want children and always having to explain so the last couple of weeks I have been saying the same thing. The conversation is shorter, people are educated about my state of play and at least the subject is dropped and hopefully not brought up again.

F x


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Then you get the insensitive comments once they know - like 'have you thought of adoption?' Like that thought never crossed my mind ..... hello......

You can just nip to the shop and buy a baby - not several months, even years of scrutiny to be told you won't be a parent decided by a panel because of a row you had with DH years ago or something - that must be more heart breaking than being unable to conceive - being told you are not worthy of parenthood when hundreds of people become parents every year with no thought and in terrible conditions. Perhaps I am being negative about it, but I hear it is very hard.


----------



## Mousky

Hazel - we have absolutely no experiences with adoption but you sort of described my fears


----------



## Fraggles

Hi HH

Thanks for explaining what happened to the thread.

It is a minefield about what one can say and what one can't say in case it offends people.

It's sad as many of us are in the same boat that I would hope there would be understanding from others when people express their feelings and disappointments or views different to their own and no judgment. 

This is about the third or fourth time this week where I have heard other FF's have misunderstood what someone has written or taken offence to what someone has written when none was intended and it makes me sad.

It is making me think that perhaps I need to take a break from FF for a while as whilst I write this I am even thinking is someone going to take offence.

F x


----------



## Mousky

Fraggles - I've been posting less and less because of this issue. I try to stick to threads where I made friends. I've already got flagged a few times for nevermind. I don't want to start anything again.


Love to all.


----------



## beachgirl

Good Morning back from a hen weekend away so will read back today (got the day off work) and try and catch up, big hugs to everyone


----------



## ceci.bee

Hi everyone

I also don't want to offend anyone and love the FFers I have met on this thread - it was the first time I had laughed as some of the last thread was very funny, and felt I had a place to have a rant about bad/silly stuff that had happened. I am determined not to let the odd person upset the experience for everyone as it is so important we can all express ourselves. Earlier this year the bubbles disappeared because a few FFers were getting cross that they were being blown bubbles by caring FFers that changed their magic number - this to me was a bit    and ruined a lovely bit of FF for me. Luckly lovely Tony decided to ask those people not to complain and re-instated the bubbles - what I am trying to say is that we should all stick together on the thread and if someone is offended they don't have to read, and ultimately if something is very offensive (which it has never been) then that is what the mods are for.

sorry mod if I have gone too far!
lots of love and   
C


----------



## beachgirl

CEci    hugs and I think you've said it well


----------



## spooq

Hiya, I love this thread as it makes me feel sane when for most of the last five years I've felt pretty crazy    Its reassuring to know that lots of other ladies feel the exact same way that I do and I feel much less alone.  I also like to hear other ladies sharing their experiences of situations they've had to deal with, of totally insensitive things they've had people say to them.  It really helps to have somewhere to rant without feeling like you'll be judged, and makes me feel stronger that we're all in this together.  However, it is sad that for some of us, this is the only place that provides us with such a sanctuary.  I can't believe that I can't find this with any of my family or friends.  However, I'd be the first to say that no-one else could possibly know what its like unless they've been through it too, no matter how much they try   

Here's another dumb anecdote to add:

When DH and I were going through our first IVF/ICSI, we attended his aunt's 40th birthday party. We've always been very open about our TX and all the family knew we had just started our first cycle. This didn't stop DH's Mum blurting out at the table, "did you know that there is a Grandma adoption scheme now?  Maybe I'll get someone to adopt me seeing as none of my sons will give me grandkids."


----------



## Clomidia

@ spooh - ouch! Honey that must've hurt, big hugs... (and we'll send the PSP round to your mum's perhaps??) 

Actually, the other grandmother at our table at the wedding was complaining how her youngest (who got married a few years ago) still hadn't "given" her grandchildren... eh hello?!?! Is that all we're here for?? I thought it was very insensitive of her, particularly as her daughter in law was also at the table and had lost a child at 20 wks pg... some people eh?!    

H, I know what you mean about the adoption thing - I always reply "yes of course... but ... " and then I go on to lecture said person about how difficult it is to adopt, how long it takes etc etc and that usually shuts them up. As it happens, dh and I are at the beginning of the adoption process ourselves but I haven't shared that with any one as yet. I don't want to spend the next two years being asked was there any "news" yet... !

Another one that makes me laugh is the "have you thought about other options?" from people - WTF?! I think it sounds quite spooky actually, other "options" - like, do you mean have I considered stealing a baby a la Corrie/Eastenders etc etc??!   Why yes, of course I have, in fact I spend my free weekends prowling hospital corridors with a glazed look in my eye and a baby blanket under my arm...


----------



## Clomidia

PS I didn't know that about the bubbles - I love getting them and have just realised I have 200 now - wooohoooo!!!


----------



## ceci.bee

202 now 
xx


----------



## Clomidia

Ahhhh       right back at ya


----------



## kitten77

220 now!!!! bubbles are great!


----------



## ceci.bee

Clomida I just saw your post about adoption - and I know what you mean about people asking about 'other options' including adoption -     I always want to go (in sarcastic voice) - 'no - gosh - can you actually do that then - amazing - I didn't know' and it ALWAYS comes from people who have babies relatively easily, and they seem to think you can go shopping for one and emotionally it will be all ok and straightforward  .........am in awe of you guys going for it - think you have to be even stronger to survive the process than going through IF and wish you so so much luck on your journey
xx


----------



## wizard

Clomidia said:


> Another one that makes me laugh is the "have you thought about other options?" from people - WTF?! I think it sounds quite spooky actually, other "options" - like, do you mean have I considered stealing a baby a la Corrie/Eastenders etc etc??!  Why yes, of course I have, in fact I spend my free weekends prowling hospital corridors with a glazed look in my eye and a baby blanket under my arm...


Brilliant Clomidia, that really made me laugh!! 

I generally restrict my unpalatable posts to the single ladies negative thread but I have also got support from reading this thread too - thank you all for that. I am so sorry you have all had these bl00dy awful responses and experiences but am grateful to you for sharing them.

Wizard x


----------



## coweyes

People can get a bit emotional and opinionated, think everyone should try and be a bit more patient and considerate of others feelings .  I had someone have a go at me about a month or so ago, My consultant said the Bristol was the 3 best fertility clinic in England, this turned out to be 11 years ago!! Anyway i stated this as this is what i believed and someone told me that this was not true and that i should check my facts first!  I mean fear enough.  But i did not appreciate being publicly chastised.  But i said nothing as did not want to publicly be rude back, not my style.  There was then a thread started which was quite negative towards the clinic.  I felt terrible, i never said anything negative, because i had always been very happy with the care i receive there. 


I guess as with life, there are all sorts of people struggling with fertility, we just need to remember that we are all human and all have feelings. xx


----------



## willsmum

Hi all,
        Just wanted to add my bit about our experience with adoption. We got all the way to home study stage but then decided it wasnt the right time. I have to say the whole experence was much worse tha ivf. 
I remember one woman on our course who had a 22 year old daughter from her first marriage and her dh had three kids from his. One day we were in the middle of a group discission when she started wailing and said " my friends say wanting a baby is not the same for me cos i already have a daughter, but it is, it hurts sooo much"
I felt like screaming at her and saying you ungreatful c*w, you couldnt possilbly know how the rest of us feel as you have carried your baby, given birth to her, breast fed her and watched her grow in to a young woman.
Instances like the above one along with the droning voice of our social worker repeatedly telling us that contact with their birth parents is good for adopted children was what made us decide it wasnt for us. 
we have however just started the fostering process and wow what a difference. we have gone with a private agency rather than la as we did with adoption,  but they are so much friendlier. They know all about our history and are really keen for us to start, so watch this space!!!!


p.s. I know everyones experiences are different and what i have said is just my opinion, so please dont take offence anyone!

Lovely to see this thread so busy again.

  to you all,
lou xxxx


----------



## ceci.bee

willsmum gosh that sounds really harrowing and stressful. Good luck with the fostering - sounds like you have a much better set up    now and really hope you enjoy it. saw a lovely story on the news the other day about a young woman and her foster mum that was so sweet they were really bonded and happy together and she was talking so positively about the experience it was fab   

coweyes I know exactly what you mean - with such a diverse community on here of women with differnet backgrounds and experiences, all united by our complex fertility probs and the emotional stress that comes with that means that we prob all read things differently. I never in a million years would intentionally offend anyone, but I am aware that I might say something that someone else might take offence to - if so please tell me I would rather know! I am so sorry that you had a bad time on anther thread with a stroppy FFer - its not your fault you believed your doctor and had good treatment at a good clinic    

Clomida also forgot to say - loved your stalking corridors coment    honestly what do they think we do at the weekend    and as for grandparent adoption    I am amazed someone didn't deck her (I guess it was a wedding but still!!)

lots of love and    to all
C


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

hummm - other options - now there is a thought.......?  
My MIL's suggestion was for me to become a pedigree cat breeder.  
There is always the monkey option - dressed up in little clothes and fed cookies and lollypops - as I saw on a TV program once.... or ....
the lifelike plastic dolls that you can wheel around in a pram and coo over and they are so lifelike people don't even know until the baby doesn't move and looks like a corpse.....
Or there is giving up parenthood and becoming a missionary worker in an orphanage in Africa......
or there is volunteering for the first human cloning experiments

What other ''options'' can you think of?


----------



## Guest

Hi ladies,

This thread is great, I am so glad that its not just me!!

Today I have had a thought, I am trying so hard not to come on the site as I drive myself mad by upsetting myself by going back on the thread that was for going through TX, but now they are all preggers and it hurts me and upsets me.....I love them all to bits and they have all been so supportive, but I just cant face it   

I want a clean break, its only been 5 weeks since the miscarriage and I am finding it hard, sometimes I am okay, then some days like yesterday I had non stop crying for 2 hours   

Ladies - IS THERE A WAY THAT I CAN DE-ACTIVATE MY ACCOUNT?  I think that its for the best until I sort my head out..

Gosh, really sorry for the dreary post......xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## ceci.bee

Hodgson I had the same prob when I had my MMC and kept on getting the 'BFPs in Nov/Dec' popping up - I PM'd the board moderator and she closed it for me and made a new one so it didn't keep popping up on my unread posts.
So sorry to hear what you have been through, I know all too well having been through something very similar and am sending you a huge       . I know staying away from FF is sometimes necesssary for sanity, but also there is great support on other threads for those that have been through this heartbreak. am so sorry for your loss and    again

lots of love
C


----------



## willsmum

Hodgeson- sorry you are feeling   , stick with us, hopefully we can cheer you up   

Hazel- about 2 years ago I was window shopping in town. this lady in her seventies stopped beside me, she had a pram. I just assumed it was her grandchild. Well being the emotional cutter i am, i had a peak at the baby, and you can imagine my shock when instaed of seeing a cutie little baby, she had a doll in the pram. It was one of those heavy duty plastic ones from the seventies. I remember my sister had one and the eyes had been pushed into its head, as had this womans doll. I remember being really creaped out, but thinking about it now she was probably some poor woman who could never have kids. omg will this be us in 35 years! (or sooner!)


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

OMG ! Willsmum - I have got visions of us all like zombies pushing dolls around prams in our 70s wearing sandwich boards or tshirts saying 'adopt me'

 

Hodgson - I am so sorry about your miscarriage - it is so bloody unfair  Were you with me on the April thread?
I went through the same thing with my cycle buddies last year. It is very hard. 
The worst time is the due date period. you can't help but look to see who has their bundle and then it is hard looking down the hall of fame and seeing angels where there should be babies, especially next to your own name.
One of my cycle buddies had her baby on my baby's due date and then called him the name I would have used for a boy, had it been me. I emailed her and she never replied - but then againat the time when my baby died she was more interested in worrying about her baby and whether he was still OK than consoling me - so there you are!

One way around it is to read the threads you want to see and then mark all others as read. Then with time the mod will start a new thread and you can escape it. As long as you don't reply to the thread you actually have to look for it. If there are 20-30 pages of the old thread you could ask if the mod will start a new one so you can escape. 
The other suggestion was to get someone to password protect certain pages for you. Not sure how you do that.


----------



## Clomidia

Hopeful Hazel, I love your suggestions for other options - v v funny!! 

Willsmum, you've forgotten, of course, that we won't be old ladies pushing empty prams in 35 years time because by then we will be grandmothers ourselves, as our wonderful children will have come and grown up, got married, etc etc ... and we will look back at this this time and sigh... I promise  

Also, sorry to hear you had a bad time with the adoption process. I don't have much faith in our LA either but have spoken to another agency who were recommended to us; they were lovely and we are going to their information day shortly. So we'll have to see how it goes. We're not 100% sure this is for us right now, but we'll see. 

Hodgson, I'm really sorry hun. I too held myself back from FF for a long time. I needed to just get on with life and forget about ttc for a while. It's hard, but if you stop posting for a while eventually you will get out of the habit of it, and then you can come back when you're ready (((hug)))

Hmmm, I texted a close friend earlier as I heard through someone else that she had her baby last week. Weird that she didn't tell me sooner?! She said yes baby was here and was perfect (they had some scares at early scans). I said I can't wait to come and have a cuddle but she hasn't replied yet...  do you think she's worried I will steal her little girl?! LOL!


----------



## maria8245

hiya,

am posting on here to air my devastation after 3 icsi cycles failed.

before starting the last one we applied for funding and promptly got rejected.
we have self-funded 3 cycles. my husband had a vaesectomy before we met, i have no children, but the trust say as he had a vaesectomy then they wont fund. i explained that they are deniying me the right to motherhood and we have paid in full our National insurance and taxes. my husband had sperm extraction which we paid for which was frozen so we had all we needed but they would still not full or part fund a cycle. maybe if i was unemployed, living on the state and recently moved to this country it would have been different. feel very angry at my government.

sorry for ranting, hope i havent been outaline or upset anyone.


----------



## katie c

maria8245 said:


> maybe if i was unemployed, living on the state and recently moved to this country it would have been different. feel very angry at my government.


no, it wouldn't 

it's so so unfair that you can't have treatment, i think the rules suck.  but the rules are the same for everyone in this instance. so try not to torment yourself


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Hello everyone, 

I've never posted on this thread before but I've lurked for a while and it feels like the sort of place I might 'fit in' - although of course I wish it didn't, just as I wish that for all of us here, but here I am so I thought I'd say hello   

If one more person tells me how lucky I am to be 'free' to do what I want to do, to have money to spend on myself, to lie in at weekends, to have holidays and weekends away, I might just have to stab them with a very large kitchen knife   
And likewise anyone else who tells me how fantastic internet dating is, and how their best friend's friend's cousin's neighbour met a lovely chap online when she was in her 40s and now they're married with 2 children will receive similar treatment

I'm also pretty sick and tired of the adoption comments - do people just not have any idea how complicated and challenging it is to adopt? Especially if you are single, white, 40, and living in a pretty affluent rural area where few children even come up for adoption....

And on top of all that, even my own sister regularly asks me 'how long are you going to keep on trying?' - right, because it's the sort of thing you just wake up one morning and think, Oh, I know, I'll stop wanting a family now....

Maria - I feel your pain    Single women are automatically excluded from any NHS funding, even when there are clear fertility issues. Sometimes I think I should go all activist and try to get things changed, but then I realise that this would take up valuable energy which I need for other things, so I just grit my teeth and get on with it (and try not to think about the credit card bills...)

Hodgeson - so sorry to hear about your miscarriage and understand why you would want a break. In the 3+ yrs I've been here on FF, I've had times where I simply can't post/read...but I always end up coming back. It's like a drug - can't live with it, can't live without it    And it has to be said that the support here is fantastic, but if you feel you need to take a complete break, you should do so - we'll be here to welcome you back when you're ready...

Anyway, I'm on day 8 of my latest 2WW (lost count but must be 10th ish attempt if you include the IUIs) and not feeling at all positive, but there you go, just wanted to drop in and say hi   

Suitcase
x


----------



## willsmum

Maria,
        I too have just had a letter from my pct which said they will not fund me anymore. Like you i stated that dh and i had been tax payers etc, etc. I also did a bit of research and told them how much "foreigners" having babies cost the nhs last year, but they couldnt give a damn. My husband and i have incured so much debt and worked so hard to fund our treatment and are now being penilised because we are not foreign or doll dossers.
God life is so unfair, but hey we will find a way   
Willsmumxx


----------



## willsmum

sorry forgot to wish suitcase loads of luck xx


----------



## Guest

Hi everyone,

I am so glad that I have found this thread, thank you for the kind warm welcomes, its so nice to speak to ladies in the same boat.. 

*Suitcase*- I think that the PCT Rules suck, why the hell should the NHS waste money on other proceedures like lung, liver transplants for people that chose to abuse their bodies.....why should us ladies be denied of our rights to be parents just because the NHS say NO!!! rah it makes me so mad....also the postcode lottery, in my area, we only get 1 go, thats so bad.....LADIES, DO U THINK THAT I CAN APPEAL, AND HOW DO I DO IT
I am sending you lots of  I sincerely pray that you get the outcome that you so rightly deserve hun..xx

Willsmum - Hi hun, I 100% agree with you, it makes my blood boil, it really does, I believe in Karma, we will all get there, I Know we will..xxx

Maria- No need to say sorry for the rant, I think that we all need to rant, also we are all thinking the same..xx

Hopeful Hazel - Hey hun, I knew you seemed familiar, yes I was on the other thread with you....do you still go on that thread??
How are u keeping??xx

Clomidia - Hey hun, lol, did you go and see your friends baby?? its funny how people react to infertility, my brother didnt have the guts to tell me when he became a father, sometimes I feel like people to tip toe around me, do you find that too??xx

ceci-bee- Hi hun, yeah I think that you are right, I do need the support on here as sometimes DH bless him doesnt quite know what to say,...xxx

AFM - ladies, if any of you have had a D&C, how long was it before your AF came?? I am getting periody, its been nearly 5 weeks, but had retained products so technically only been 4 weeks since I was 100% cleared.....I am so scared as I am going to spain next Thursday, I love the water, but apparently they said not to use Tampax for 1st AF? My friend said to wear a pad and still go in the water mmmmmmmmmmmm

Sorry if I have missed anyone..xx


----------



## ceci.bee

Hi Hodgeson from memory my AF took 4-5 weeks after D&C/ERPC  . You can't swim until AF has finished as the cervix is opened from the operation so germs from the water (sadly which there are lots even in chorinated water) will get in and cause inflammation of the lining of the uterus so even tho its a holiday is best avoided - which sucks as after going through something so horrible. the good news (if there is any) is that after AF comes all the pg hormones are out of your body and it will be slightly easier to deal with everything - I found still feeling pg when I knew I wasn't just totally horrific   . I hope you can enjoy your holiday hun and get some relaxation and drinking done even if you can't swim     

Suitcase I know what you mean about PCTs - I used to work in the NHS and despite all NICE guidelines suggesting each PCT should fund 3 goes for everyone - each PCT is still allowed (ie a bunch of blokes in suits in an office all overpaid) to decided who can and can't get tx. Our PCT only allows 1 go - and when we were referred it was to a centre that took 18 months to see each couple for a first appointment    as we are in london and lucky enough to have supportive families we have self funded some amazing care, but I am still resentful that a condition that has the same psychological impact long term as HIV and cancer gets so sidelined for funding grrrrrrrrrrr don't get me on my soapbox!!

sorry rant over  
lots of love to all
C


----------



## Mousky

Ladies,


Careful with the foreigners talk as you might upset someone   


btw, I'm really sorry to hear about your lack of funding    I read a lot about it here that if one of the prospective parents already have kids from a previous relationship, you're not getting funding, no matter what. That's insane    I live in Belgium and the rules are quite different here. We pay higher taxes, I'm afraid   


Hodgson, Ceci.bee, Maria, Suitcase (I have everything crossed for you), willsmum, Katie, Hazel, Clomidia, Coweyes and anyone else still checking the thread - sending you all some      and    


ps. I'm reading a novel (last Adele Parks) - needed something light to break free from immune/IF tx reading - and it's about a woman who doesn't want to have a baby, although her husband is desperate for one    You wouldn't believe but her remarks are exactly some of the stupid ones that have been mentioned here before. "kids cramp your style", "lack of money, time, sleepless nights, loss of identity etc."    


xx


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Don't get me started on the NHS funding issue.

I am so angry about it and it uses a lot of my energy that I need for other things.

We are excluded from care because my DH has a DS. This DS might not be his since we found out that he has complete azoospermia - we would have to have a paternity test on the child, but this would be damaging to the child. So we have been responsible and not done this for the welfare of the child.

I have no children, my parents have no grandchildren. I have no siblings. I have worked hard and paid tax since I was 21. I work for the NHS caring for foreigners who come here for treatment, the drug addicts, the gangs, the smokers and drinkers and people who abuse their bodies and children etc etc etc. We might throw £20,000 worth of care at someone in their last 2 weeks of life on intensive care where I work, even when there is little hope of meaningful recovery e.g. in very elderly person or a very severe head injury - I am not saying that these people should not be treated, but the economic benefit of treating me for infertility and producing a child that will probably do a professional career and pay lots of tax, is much higher than a severely head injured person who needs lifelong nursing home care. Infertility patients seem to be a soft target and there is a general attitude about it in society that it is unworthy, when the people making the rules have little knowledge of the subject.

Not only that we have had to pay out of our own pocket to take my DH's ex to court to get access when she got legal aid because she was claiming benefits, and we have had to pay another mortgage in the form of CSA payments. I already pay well over £1000 a month in tax and NI, but I see very little of it back.

It is so   unfair!
I think it is really grossly unfair that people get 3 cycles and I can't even get a blood test or a packet of progesterone suppositories. I have literally been marched out of a blood tests waiting room to the cash point to withdraw money at an NHS hospital when I tried to get a blood test - they would not do it until I paid them £160 in cash. This was in front of everyone in the waiting room I felt humiliated and felt like it was at gun point because I was trying to get something on the NHS that I was not entitled to.


----------



## willsmum

Hi all,

Just wanted to clarify that when i refer to forieghners i dont mean general people who are not english. I myself have african and e european friends. but they all work, pay mortgages, council tax etc and are decent people.
I am refering to the lazy    who come to this country to blead our benifit system dry. We have enough lazy english    to do that for us!


----------



## kitten77

hey.  i cant get into the funding talk as it just makes me annnnngry!!!!   

as for the stupid things people say, my DH came home with some corkers yesterday.  first off this person knows mine and DH issues (DH sperm issues) and his first comment in a conversation that they were all having 'well me and my wife tried for a whole 18 months for kids and i thot i was a jaffa.....but its ok cuz i aint a jaffa cuz i knocked her up, glad i didnt fail as a man' -     and the other one was while the group were talking there were talking abotu size of willies (what they do at work i will never know, but you know men!!) anyway he said 'well ive gotta massive d1ck as its big enough to fill a pram' - my DH said yer he knew he had a massive d1ck as he can see it growing out his forehead!


----------



## ceci.bee

kitten77 said:


> and the other one was while the group were talking there were talking abotu size of willies (what they do at work i will never know, but you know men!!) anyway he said 'well ive gotta massive d1ck as its big enough to fill a pram' - my DH said yer he knew he had a massive d1ck as he can see it growing out his forehead!


Hahahahahaha that really made me giggle thanks kitten - your DH sounds fab


----------



## Clomidia

Hi all   

On the subject of funding and the postcode lottery - yes that really makes me mad too    
Our PCT only funds 1 cycle of IVF - no iui's or anything else. I appealed to our PCT for funding for ivf cycle 2 - and we were refused. They said they were considering going to 3 funded cycles "sometime". They then also said if we went ahead and self-funded on our second cycle, that would count against us so we would have used 2 of a possible 3 "funded" cycles.... gahhhhh!!!! It's so frustrating!!! 

What also bugs me is that we pay so much council tax each month - and what does the majority of council tax funds go towards? Schools!!! I would love to ask them to redirect mine for a few years! 

Cx 
PS Going to see new baby next week - can't wait for a cuddle   
PPS I'm also foreign so I'm staying out of the 'foreigners' debate ... I have always worked and paid taxes in this country, had no plans to stay here but sadly married a local


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

When I say foreigners, I am not talking about people who are here who genuinely fall ill on holiday or who are injured by accident. I am not talking about citizens of this country who contribute and pay taxes. This is different.


----------



## beachgirl

Morning, sorry I've been awol, had a very busy week as dad not well, hope everyone is well, will try andcatch up properly today but off to London tomorrow so got a busy one..any problems just shout


----------



## ceci.bee

Sorry to hear that beachgirl - hope your dad gets better soon.

just wanted to share with you guys something that is not what was said but what was done............My MIL is a wonderful woman who is very supportive but for my birthday she gave me a book - the first chapter of which is about a grandmother in a slum in Mumbai beating up her 17 year granddaughter for getting pg and arranging her abortion with the help of her employer - hardly what I need to be reading about now!   actually cried and put the book away - honestly does she not think about what I need to be focussing on? she has previously given me books about unexpected pg and problems, and I have already told her I don't want to read about that - but can't give my present back or tell her I don't like it - it may have to go to the charity shop quietly............

love and    to all
C


----------



## beachgirl

Ceci    sometimes people have no idea or just don't think do they....


----------



## K8O

I've not posted on here but often read! 

Ceci- I love my mil dearly but I think I wud give her the book back if she gave it to me. Sometimes u need to speak up because ppl can be completely oblivious to the impact of the actions and once they know they usually stop. Maybe ask her to get u book tokens rather than books!!

Kxx


----------



## frith

My first post on FF. I see no one has posted on here for a while, but after a bad day I have just spent a good 30mins reading this thread and taking comfort from the fact that I'm not alone in the way I feel.
I haven't posted on here before (although been reading for a while) Because to be honest I felt embarassed. So many of you have problems through no fault of your own. I'm affraid I can not say the same. in our twenties my husband and I decided to have a vasectomy. We were having a lot of trouble with tradditional contraception, we were in debt and couldn't see a way out. There was no way we could raise a baby. Against all odds we struggled on I got a better job, we moved and lie was better. Except we had made the biggest mistake off our lives. We had vas reversed, but antibodies seem to be our downfall. I also contacted our PCT in desperation after our recent BFN following our first self funded ICCI cycle. I like others thought that when youv'e paid tax and NI all your life you deserve a second chance, but aparantly not, but they do wish us luck  

With regard to stupid things people say. If one more person says that they know someone who was trying for years, and eventually decided to give up, and hey presto they were pregnant. If only it were that simple.

Sorry for going on, but it's good to get it of my chest a bit. Tired of crying on the inside but smiling on the outside. Love and respect to you all xx


----------



## ceci.bee

Frith hun         just wanted to give you a big hug and say i am so sorry you are in your situation - you did what you both felt was right at the time, and I am really sorry that you can't get NHS funding for ICSI. I agree it is really frustrating and sending    to your PCT

lots of love
C


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## fc 72

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this board but just had my cycle cancelled and like you, Frith, it seems to fit how I have felt for so long!

*Frith*I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. Don't ever blame yourself for being childless so far. If I could have all the hours back that I've spent on the internet looking for reasons to blame myself for my miscarriage, infertility etc I'd be about twenty three ( and therefore a lot thinner)! My career, my diet, my lifestyle - all things that I have finally changed at the eleventh hour! But you know, so many people get pregnant anyway even though they have done far worse things than us so there is no justice! When I was a teacher I worked with countless children whose parents had never worked a single day in their lives, had drug/alcohol problems, neglected and even abused their children whilst I and my colleagues sweated 70+ hour weeks battling the resulting behaviour problems, trying to give those poor children a future, paying tax through the nose to support their lifestyles and using up our fertile years on a hamster wheel with no headspace to think about how time was running out for us! So unfair!

*Hazel* - good to bump into you again on this thread. I totally feel for you and your funding/work issues. I also know it's not as easy as it seems to put yourself first when work is very stressful - as when you go in in between bits of treatment/recovery there are so many pieces to pick up and everyone else is already doing two people's jobs under immense pressure so even if they want to support you they have got nothing else to give. All I can say is in the end I gave up my job and, though we will be living on about £50 a week after bills from next month (plus any supply teaching I might get to top it up - though unlikely in the new "cover supervisors" climate where qualified teachers are surplus to requirements when you can just get any old eighteen year old to sit in a room with the kids whilst they drop out even further) I still feel it was the right decision. At the moment...

We did get one funded cycle. Having told no-one about ttc and let everyone assume we were not trying for children, we finally had to tell my parents during our last cycle because we had run out of lies about why we couldn't participate in some family duties. They kindly offered to pay for a second try. But it has it's downsides, as now I have to face telling them it has been postponed and will probably have to tell them eventually that they wasted their money I feel like such a failure and having people knowing it and letting them down all the time is almost unbearable.

We all totally deserve to be mothers, either naturally or through fostering/adoption so HANG ON IN THERE!

emotionalchick xx


----------



## joeyrella

i haven't had call to be on this thread for a few months now, thankfully the stupids seem to have died down for me.  however, a friend just announced she is pregnant again on ********, fair enough, but then she wrote 'yeah i think my husband must have done it with a turkey baster whilst i was asleep, lol!'.  why do fertile people find this type of thing so hysterical!?  it didn't seem so funny to me having to actually have had it done.


----------



## wendycat

I've never posted on this thread before (it usually makes me really miserable when I read through  ) But here I am, ready to off load. You lot can be my therapy for today LOL


After seven years trying my DH and I must have heard every single one of these insensitive comments! But now since our daughter died we've come into a completely new world of insensitivity. I've been off work since Matilda was born sleeping, I decided to take full 'maternity' leave to get myself back together, I'm fully entitled to it, so why not?. 


I saw someone I knew in the supermarket last week and she asked if I was back at work, I said 'no, not yet' and she said 'Really? **shocked look on her face** hey, you've done alright though haven't you, to get the whole summer off like that, it must have been lovely' 


I was stunned! I didn't really react because I know it's a really awkward situation for people, and often they don't know what to say and say the first thing that comes into their heads, which is usually totally inappropriate, I do try and see it from others point of view, I guess if they've not experienced IF or loss like this directly it's really hard for them to understand, but, Really? That's the best she could come up with. Like I'd just chuck my dead baby in the grave and carry on with a skip in my step and a grin on my face, sunbathing in the garden instead of spending weeks bawling my eyes out and not getting out of bed?!

I consoled myself with visions of her spending the rest of the day thinking 'Why, WHY did I say that?!' I bloody hope so.


And breathe.


That feels SO good to get that off my chest LOL, I hate *****ing, but for good God's sake.   People do your head in.


Thank you ladies


Wendy


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## Tama

Wendy I don't know what to say   I am so so sorry to hear what you have been through   My heart goes out to you and your dh   I can not believe your friend what a stupid thing to say   Sending you a HUGE   xx


----------



## daxcat

Wendy,   . What an idiotic thing to say! How anyone could think you did well out of it beggers belief. Lets hope she did say the first thing that came to mind and it's not how she really feels. XXXXX

Joeyrella - I think people are so flippant because they have no idea what they're saying is hurtful. If you've never experience or thought about IF, it wouldn't occur to you what heartache people go through. I'm certainly not excusing these muppets, just trying to understand what goes on in their excuse for a brain!!!


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Joyrella - they are just idiots who have no idea how it feels to have to go through humiliating and embarrassing procedures.

Wendycat - that is truly stupid. Most people I know who have had a late miscarriage take the maternity leave they are due for about 6 months.
Unfortunately I was not entitled to anything - It was very hard going back to work after a couple of weeks and I really could have done with more time to recover mentally and physically.

The reason for maternity leave after a stillbirth is that it is recognised that a woman has to recover from the birth and the trauma to be ready to return to work.

They just don't think. 

It is also a bit like when 4 years ago people at work told me that they wished they could have had 3 months off work - I broke my ankle very badly. My summer holiday on the Isle of Wight became an injury so painful I did not know pain like that was possible, a 5 day stay in hospital, surgery where 9 screws and a metal plate were put in my ankle and scars on both sides that I have for life. 2 weeks of severe pain where I could not sleep at all. Disability - could not go anywhere or do anything as I found crutches hard and my ankle would swell dangerously in the cast everytime I was upright for more than 5 mins. Washing and dressing took me an hour after which I was exhausted. The pain continued for more than a year as did the swelling. The physio was arduous and painful and was needed for months. I had a 2nd operation to remove the metal at 14 months and I might get arthritis in a few years and be unable to walk. As it is I have to be really careful with hard impact exercise.

Yes - I loved my 3 months off!


----------



## Irish Dee

Oh Wendy,

No words to express how insensitive and unthinking that woman was who spoke to you.  What an unbelievable thing to say to you.  How you kept a civil tongue in your head, I don't know.  Of all the stupid things I've read over the years, her comment really made my eyes fill up when I read it.  How dare she and I hope that you are right and that she is left with red cheeks and a burning shame for what she said.

I did read your heart wrenching thread about your precious daughter Tilly and I just wanted to say to you that you are one of the strongest and most capable women I have ever come across.  Your pure love for your daughter pours from every word you wrote about her.  You are so eloquent in your grief and I admire your strength so much.  

I wish you every success in your future attempts to have a little brother/sister for Tilly and I'm sure your little girl is looking down and telling all the other angel babies with great pride and love: 'That's MY mummy'.

Dee


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Irish dee - that is so lovely and so true - I totally agree Wendy


----------



## wendycat

Thank you, that's very kind.  


I certainly don't feel strong and capable! 


Wendy
xxx


----------



## coweyes

Wendycat




I am so sorry that someone said that to you and made your day even harder than it already must be.  I have had a couple of losses but none that even touch the sides of you loosing Tilly.  But i have to say that i read your post and thought of myself.  Not saying anything cos you know its difficult for others to say the right thing.  I hope that lady thought about what she said and felt terrible.  I too think far to much about how it makes others feel and how about the fact that they simply don't understand.  I always give people too much leeway.


My dad died due to a car crash about 11 years ago, i happened in the middle of the town that i live in.  The comments i got were truly terrible, some people had seen what happened and why they wanted to fill me in on all the gory details i will never understand.  One of my so called school friends said" o yer i sew that, the fire brigade had to come after and wash all the blood of the road".  I to just stood there and took it, when my hart had been totally ripped in half.  I had not know this and did not want to know this.  I don't always know why people say these things,  I do think sometimes is just stupidity and other times i think its go get a reaction.


I always wander why i don't say more, but i think it would only lead to more hart ache, i just let them get on with their narrow minded lives and remind myself that i am blessed in other areas such us compation for others and a little understanding. xx


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

That must have left you with an awful image Coweyes - as if it was not a terrible enough


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## Fingers Crossed 35

Hi ladies

This thread has really made me cry with the amount of pain that has been cruelly dealt out and that was before I saw the shocking remarks then made by other people. Dee, your response made me cry too - beautifully written!

It totally puts my own experience into perspective but I still find it so hard. When I told my parents that we were going for fertility treatment with donor sperm, my dad said he thought what we were doing was disgusting and that I was having another mans child and what sort of man was my husband for allowing this. He said that if we did have a baby through this then of course he and my mum would love that child but until then we are not to mention our treatment to them. My dad is white, 65 and a Dr in mechanical engineering who had 3 children v easily. I was so heartbroken I didn't say a word.


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## coweyes

Fingers crossed.


No wander your upset with a comment like that and from your own family!  I can understand people not understanding the whole tx situation, but think its wrong for others to give such a strong opinion when their not in your situation.  I am sorry that your dad is not supportive, but stay focused and your prove them all wrong.
xxxxx


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Fingers Crossed - you are not alone - I get the same thing from my own husband and his family. We nearly got a divorce over it. It has been a long battle to make them see that it is the only way for us to achieve a family and for them to accept it to a degree.

The really disgusting thing is that they have indicated that adoption is OK, but if the child has my genes and is carried in my womb, some how it is different. I can't see how, as an adopted child will have neither of our genes and a birth family possibly interfering to boot, plus social services scrutiny. I find it quite insulting that they would rather have a stranger's child than their daughter in law's child. Plus they have expected me to help my DH bring up his child from a previous relationship for the past 12 years with the ex-partner in our marriage the whole way!

Makes me MAD    

It is really hurtful - perhaps if you try and give them some literature from donor conception network they might be able to understand why having a baby and nurturing it from the word go is important to you. If there is no sperm in the relationship, then asking for help from an altruistic donor who puts themselves through a great deal to help others, is the only way to stay together and have the children you need. I don't think they would want you to remain childless - with no grand children for them, or get divorced would they?

My parents in law were telling us about how the other brother and his wife would never have used a donor and they had 7 failed IVF cycles.  How they don't believe in using a donor because they are Catholic. This is so   hypocritical as the first brother got a divorce after the fertility treatment - remarried and had a child (conceived before the marriage) and my DH had his first child out of wedlock - you can't pick and choose which bits of religion you obey!

Perhaps it is just the shock and many people do not understand the process. They think it is like the 1960s where someone was providing a sample in the next room and it was put straight into the woman, which is almost the same as having sex with another man. Nowadays the lab process, the freezing and thawing, and if you need IVF the only contact is in the petri dish make it a much more professional process and there are so many checks on the donor.

Unfortunately, they are so closed minded that they may not listen.

You have to just go ahead and do what you feel is right for you and let them gradually accept it.


----------



## ceci.bee

Fingers crossed      just wanted to add my story about DS which may help you -- when we first broached the subject with my FIL and MIL my FIL's first reaction was 'don't hoodwink us into loving a donor baby' - man that made me sooooooooooooo angry I cant tell you!!!! (and he is a psychoanalyst)
but 18 months later he had tears in his eyes watching the video of the HB on our first scan and through seeing what we have been through he has really come around and realises how much we want and will love this baby - for lots of people in the older generation DS was for lesbians and came with loads of stigma. I really hope he gets his head around it and will support you guys. Good luck with your tx           

and Wendy just wanted to add        to the incredibly unfeeling person in the supermarket - my gosh could you get more insensitive??

sorry ladies realise I should not be posting on the negative cycle thread but wanted to send you all       for all the insensitive and unfeeling comments we are all on the recieving end for. Only yesterday a mate told me that 'children were overrated' when I had told her how much fertility treatment we had been through  - I wanted to say 'yeah thats why we did it.......'   it does not stop!!!
lots of love
C


----------



## beachgirl

Just back after a trip to bonny Scotland but wanted to give everyone big hugs , some people can be so so insensitive can't they x


----------



## cosmicgirl

One of our friends really upset me on Saturday night, maybe I'm just a bit touchy I don't know.

We were discussing how my DH will shortly be giving up smoking and drinking ahead of our next ivf treatment and that friend asked how exactly ivf worked so I explained it to him (was surprised he was so clueless as he's a Chemist).  The first thing he said was that smoking and drinking didn't affect him (him and his wife have 3 kids) which I was expecting but when I explained we were unexplained and smoking can damage the DNA so we want to give ourselves the best chance of it working next time he then announces that me and DH's sperm may not be compatible and that could be the reason so our embryos would never be viable no matter what we do    Now I know that's a possibility but one we don't want to think about and for him to say that so matter of factly really upset me and has left me so deflated after building up my positivity from our bfn   

We initially didn't tell him about our treatment but had to when I felt unable attend their son's Christening a few days after my bfn - couldn't risk another lie as friends who knew were also attending.  Now I know why we didn't tell him and we certainly won't let on when we are going through the next cycle.


----------



## wendycat

So much heart ache on this thread. Just want to send masses of   to you all, I wish I could just stop being tactless, thoughtless and in some extraordinary cases, bloody deliberately hurtful! I really do.


XXX


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Rose I totally agree I have a friend who when I went on holiday with ehr recently even bought my a book along 'Hollow Heart' about an Irish autor Martina Devlin who had 3 cycles of IVF gave up and lost her DH due to the stress- and she said see she loses everything, or people who say 'what about adoption' there are plenty of children there who need a good home.

L x


----------



## coweyes

cosmicgirl

What a stupit and thoughtless man!  Sorry normally try to be pretty chilled by what people say, but that made me mad!   .  Ignore him and stay focused. xxx


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Well Cosmic girl - your eggs fertilised and the embies became blastocysts to your ''friend'' is totally wrong. I sincerely hope he is not a member of my profession when you say chemist.
Mind you a friend going through IVF has a sister who is a doctor and she did not even know what happens and asked her if she was on clomid!

Rose - I agree with you - I do not want to take up a hobby breeding pedigree cats as my MIL suggested once.

Have you seen the rubbish in the metro letters page in the last week

I have just written this to them - hope you approve, whether they publish it is another kettle of fish, but I had to get it off my chest .......


To be honest I am a bit sick of the IVF debate. There have been some  unbelieveably crass and insensitive things said by people who have no  clue what they are talking about. You can never understand what it feels  like until you experience it.

I am an IVF patient myself.  Infertility has been a terrible experience. The loss of all of my hopes  and dreams for the future and the purpose of my life as I saw it. The  hopes and dreams of my parents and my husband's parents. The loss of my  family, of my baby and my grandchildren. It is a deep grief that cannot  be patched up by volunteering for a youth group or adopting from abroad.  How easy do you think it is to adopt anyway?

Yes there are many  children in the world who need a loving home - but has anyone stopped to  consider to tell the fertile people of this world to stop having  biological children and adopt? 

Having a child to me is as  fundamental a basic instinct of survival as breathing, eating and  drinking. It is hard wired into the brain by evolution. The world health  organisation recognises infertility as an illness and there is a human  right to a family life (Article 12 of the human rights act).

I work very hard for the NHS. I have saved the government millions of pounds over the years.

I  also personally pay £1300 per month at current rates in tax and NI.  Over a 45 year working period (bearing in mind that if I never have a  baby I will probably work full time until I retire - if that day ever  comes) averaging at today's rate of direct taxes, I will have paid  £702,000 in direct tax, not including the tax my husband pays or our  parents paid or any indirect tax. My dad worked for 50 years, never had a  day off sick and never claimed benefits. My father in law was a doctor  and was the same.
Plus if I never have a baby, I will have to rely on  other people's children to earn the money to support me in my old age,  and I will not have children or grand children to support me physically  or mentally, so will be a burden to society.

Someone said that 4  cycles of IVF cost £25000 - it does not even cost that in Harley street  where it is about £3000 for one treatment cycle plus £750 worth of  drugs.
It does not cost the NHS that much. Private clinics are making a huge profit.

Who  do you think gets free treatment on the NHS? We are excluded because my  husband had a child with someone else many years ago. Nothing to do  with me, but I get excluded because of it.

It is a total postcode  lottery even now. The exclusion criteria they can think up to keep  numbers in check. The NICE guidelines said up to 6 cycles of treatment  should be offered. Many only offer 1 cycle to a very few people who meet  the criteria. 

I treat drug addicts, alcoholics, gangs who shoot  and stab each other, people who drive recklessly and hurt themselves  and others, the obese, smokers, foreign nationals, people who contribute  nothing to society etc etc. every single day at a cost of £1000 plus  per bed day in hospital. 

How come I am paying for EVERYONE  else's NHS priorities, children's schooling etc. and do not get any help  at all with my own distressing condition that has ruined not only my  life, but my whole family's.

Lastly, would you say to a couple,  who's 4 year old child had just died of leukaemia.... ''I'm sorry,  having a child is a priviledge not a right....bad luck'' or ''now you  are free to adopt'' or ''you could volunteer for the local scout group -  that would fulfill your need to be a parent'' NO? Well then DON'T say  it to me! Just because my baby has not lived, does not mean that I do  not grieve in the same way, and  your insensitive statements are  extremely hurtful, simply adding to my grief.

It seems to me that infertility patients are a soft target who everyone thinks they have the right to attack.

Think on - it might be you or one of your nearest and dearest one day.


----------



## Tama

Hopeful Hazel don't think I could have put it better    xx

Cosmic girl your 'friend' sounds like an idiot   Sending you a huge   xx


----------



## kitten77

Hopeful Hazel     - well done!!!!! very well said. it annoys me to when they say we are a burden (but dont get me on this as i will go off on one i tell you now) - all the people who are overweight....heard on the news last nite that they are having incentives for fat people to loose weight  WTF! so this is where our taxes go is it, to pay people to loose weight !!! you couldnt even make it up!!!!


----------



## hoping :)

Hopeful hazel-wow, fantastic letter! I remember u frm a thread about cameron stopping funding mths bk, and two local (mine inc) have both pulled funding,  i agree with every word u have said. Well done, i emailed my pct and havent heard a thing bk! Gets too raw and emotional having tohave to explain our selves and our needs, and how gut wrenching that is. x x


----------



## cosmicgirl

Great letter Hazel, I hope they publish it.


And no my 'friend' isn't pharma Hazel, he's an analytical chemist, working in a lab all day obviously means people skills are not required!  He was a bit drunk so was probably a bit more tactless than normal but I'm going to get DH to have a quiet word with him next time he comes over just so he knows he upset me.  Thank you all for your support, glad it wasn't just me being super sensitive


----------



## Fingers Crossed 35

Hopeful Hazel

I loved your letter and could feel every ounce of hurt, loss, disappointment and grief in there. Please let us know if you get any responses to it - they will be interesting I'm sure! x


----------



## Sparklyone

Have a classic this evening ladies :-


" Exciting news sisters. I am pregnant ! Went for twelve week scan today all good. Busy packing for hol, last minute as usual! Speak soon x"


Text received from my younger sister tonight who is well aware that I have had 3 BFNs and been trying for 5 yrs. Also it comes 4 days after my older sister announced her 3rd pg after natural FET ( 3 pregnancies from 3 txs) .  


Apparently I am being over sensitive - it was a lovely text.  


Is it just me that thinks this was unbelievably thoughtless and a cowardly way of telling someone - or am I just hurt from the shock of picking up my phone an reading this    



Taking a break from my family for a while I am fed up of being brave. 


PS Fab Hopeful Hazel


----------



## beachgirl

Hazel, big hugs hun, it's hard isn't it when it's close family/friends...she probably didn't know what to do and just sent a text then regretted it afterwards x


----------



## wendycat

Hazel   


I think what makes it harder is that I would never dream of doing that to someone, but my sister pretty much did the same to me, and it hurt like hell. I don't know if it's ignorance, lack of tact or as beachgirl says, they just don't know how to address the situation, but the result is the same, thoughtlessness.


----------



## Tama

Sparklyone you are not being silly I know I would have felt the same      Not a nice way to find out anyone is pg when you are having tx but from your sister makes it worse. So sorry. You take some time for you    xx


----------



## Guest

Sparkly one,

You are not being stupid, I would have felt the same, its always the way isnt it, everyone around us getting pregnant.....I just wish friends and family were more sensitive to infertility, its so blooming hard and cruel.

We are all here for you, and each other.

xxx


----------



## Sparklyone

Thanks girls - have gone from being v upset - in shock at hearing it like that - to being just really angry a family member showed so little compassion. It really helped writing it down and your responses this morning mean so much to  me as the rest of my family do not understand.


Sparklyone xxxxx


----------



## joeyrella

i'm the opposite, i always much rather hearing it on text message when i can react naturally (and cry for a few hours whilst i get used to the idea) than having it face to face or in front of other people where i then have to fight my real reaction and go through the expected congratulatory motions.  Its never easy hearing of other people having the one thing you want so badly    but i expect it is probably not easy for people, particularly our sisters, to know how to tell us either so try not to hold it against them.  exactly one week after i found out i was finally pregnant my sister found out she was too (after three months of trying   ) and i could see it pained her to know how to best tell me, she just blurted it out in the car in the end whilst looking mortified.  it made me feel really bad, because she deserves to be over the moon and to have her sister caught up in the excitement, and i feel like she shouldn't have had to be on egg shells around me.  its hard either way i think


----------



## kdb

Hazel, that is a brilliant letter    Thank you for sharing it with us xoxo


----------



## ninamumbest

I realise that this thread is not really for me but having read through it I just wanted to say how brilliant and strong you all are and share one comment said to me nearly 2 years ago.  A close single friend managed to be pregnant 3 times in a year - resulting in one miscarriage and two terminations.  She was well aware of my early menopause and problems with fertility and when I was consoling her about her latest "slip up" she said "I just can't seem to stop getting pregnant, shame I can't just give my eggs to you, eh?".  This was said as a joke. Later that year (after I had suffered a heart-breaking miscarriage) she went out of her was to get my DP drunk on tequila and snog him.  We were all in our late 30s.


----------



## M2M

Just found this thread again (I used to be on the old one but didn't realise it was closed). So sorry for some of the insensitive comments you have all been hearing.   After my BFN this morning I tried to stay off the fertility boards but I wanted to come on this one and just share with you what was said to me at work last week... seems an appropriate place for it!

At work the other day my colleague decided it would be nice to tell me that his unborn daughter (girlfriend is 38wks pregnant) is "already a little b*tch" because his girlfriend has some calcium issues resulting from the pregnancy and will need dental work after the birth. To call a baby a b*tch is just horrendous in my eyes.

He's been disappointed since finding out the baby was a girl - he already has a two-year-old boy so they've got the very best of both worlds if you ask me. He's always moaning about the pregnancy and how his girlfriend is getting annoyed with "it". Then a colleague said to him, "No more kids after this one then?" and he replied "Not for a couple of years."     He is so ungrateful for what he has and really takes it for granted.

I confided in another colleague that we were trying for a baby via IVF and she matter-of-factly said to me "If I couldn't have kids I would've accepted my lot in life and wouldn't have had IVF. I've never wanted kids that much." Well it's nice that you were able to have a son and a daughter then isn't it?

Grrrrrrrrrrr! It's going to be a nightmare going back to work on Monday after my BFN.   Hugs to all.


----------



## Fraggles

Hi
I haven't posted on here for a while but this is going slightly of track but is another stupid things people say - I have plenty during my time whilst have IVF.

However, I returned to work this week after time off as my Dad died suddenly. A colleague who has been working had a different site has just come back the last two weeks and before making the statement I am about to share told me she had already upset a couple of colleagues. I wonder why.

Well she said where have you been, I said my dad died suddenly - oh she said that means you are going to have a horrible 12 months ahead of you.

Excuse me WTF!!! Nothing like picking a gal up when she is down anyway, but obviously like of a lot of others who care to give us there holy thoughts on whether or not they would have IVF, it was more like a kick in the face. Although I am incredulous at her insensitivity I did think it was funny how she thought these were "words of support". Guess if I am due to have a horrible 12 months I should give IVF up for the next 12 months.

F x


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Fraggles               

When mum died I had a few like that


----------



## coweyes

Fraggles


Sorry to hear this woman upset you, she sounds like a bxxxdy nightmare!  What goes around comes around, if you give out negative vibes/comments you will get them back, watch this space. Sorry to hear about your Dad. xxxxx


----------



## bendigirl

Has anyone else experienced this?

I thought I'd gotten over the hell of my missed miscarriage (is there anything more miserable than waiting to miscarry naturally?) earlier this year until I went into the bank recently!  A man in the queue infront of me was bragging to the cashier about how his daugther had just had a shotgun wedding because she'd got pregnant within a month of coming off the pill.  Nice to hear I thought until he added how her friend has been trying unsucessfully for 3 years!  Perhaps he was merely commenting on what a mad world it is, ie his daughter caught when she least expected whilst her friend can't seem to but I can't help feeling there was a bit of fatherly bragging going on there - or is that just me?  To make matters worse the cashier then announced she's 5 months pregnant and due when the one I lost would have been   

What are other people's experiences of hearing those lucky women who conceive easilys brags about it?


----------



## karenanna

Hi Seasquirt

I thought you might appreciate this thread http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=193633.msg3017464#msg3017464 - called 'the stupid things people say'.

I didn't tell people at work I was doing IVF and alot of them made all sorts of assumptions - like you're a career girl, not interested in children etc... I also was surrounded by an office with pregnant ladies/proud grandmas who kept pasting pictures of their new arrivals on the noticeboard.

It's also strange since I've been pregnant the number of people who've said - oh, we just assumed you didn't like kids (  ) - like I'm going to spread it all over the workplace that I can't have children naturally. People really are insensitive. Now I can sense them (even strangers) itching to ask me if I conceived through IVF, especially when they find I'm having twins - it never stops.

Sending you a big   and this is just the place to let it out.

Karenanna xxx


----------



## Fraggles

Hi

Thanks x

I choose to believe that there is now a vacancy for another family member now my dad has passed so plan to get a BFP pretty soon.

F x


----------



## bendigirl

Hi Karenanna,

Congrats on your pregnancy, I bet you can't wait to meet the twins   Thanks for you reply and the link.  I see from that this topic has already been discussed in some detail.

I didn't tell anyone at work either and struggled with other pregnant ladies especially the ones who either moaned about being pregnant and didn't want to be or didn't really care one way or the other and smoked and drank the entire pregnancy.  I've also been shocked at people's attitudes and how insensitive they can be.  The amount of people who've asked me 'so when are you having kids then (because I've been married for quite a while).  Also other women who have fallen pg easily & naturally who seem to look down at those of us who struggle and seem to think of ivf as some sort of freak of nature!  One thing that does actually seem to make us ladies who have to have assisted conception different is the fact we really appreciate our pregnancies and don't take them for granted (as a lot, though not all, women who don't need ac do).


----------



## jackie9028

Hi Seasquirt

this is a very hard subject for me, my sister in law and i decided we would try to fall pregnant together, me after my second marriage and her after being with my brother for 9 years, she is 3 years younger than me and fell pregnant strait away and at 11 weeks decided that pregnancy would def not suit her life style so u can guess what she did, then 4 months later my niece did the same thing at 10 weeks, didnt want one interferring with her life. So u can imagine how difficult that has all been for me and now to get my BFN all im doing is thinking of these two selfish people. needless to say i havent spoken to either of them in a very long time and dont have anything to say to them.


----------



## coweyes

Fraggles


Def, nice way of thinking about it. xx


----------



## belle-bubble

Hello. 
I completely know what you are going through, I seem to have a "smack in the face" on a daily basic too.   I've just recently had a miscarriage, No-one has phoned me, It's like.. Oh she's having IVF again, and Awww bless her shes lost it.. The sympathy and the care goes after once, and you can only rely on yourself. 
I have a smack in the face whenever I go on F-book, and one of my friends have concieved after a one night stand.. Nice! 
I am in your boat, Be strong, I go through this every day too. It's horrid.. 
Take care xxx
 for your next treatment, I'm saving my pennies for my next too. xxx


----------



## Loobs1

Hi Jackie

so sorry to read your post, that must be so hard for you to deal with - i really feel for you.  

i have so many dreadful comments people have made to me - including close family - that i have to block it out, otherwise it would send me mad.  all of the obvious - 'when are you guys having children', 'why don't you just stop, it's clearly not working', 'why don't you just adopt'.....  all pretty mindless and insensitive.  and the hardest thing is to not react and point out to people just how insensitive they're being.  a very close friend of my husband told me last year that we should take comments people make on the chin, 'because they don't think about what they're actually saying'!!!!!  

i think most of us here have pretty broad shoulders and big hearts to do what we're doing and carry on with life.  

Love Loobs xxx


----------



## Clomidia

Fraggles, that's dreadful, what a horrible thing to say   

I am so sorry for your loss. 

Hazel, loved your letter to Metro, well done. I will keep all those comments to hand the next time I have to deal with someone saying anything about the cost of IVF to the nation! 

Last week, we told some of our friends we were adopting and the first thing one of them said was "oh, did I ever tell you about ... " and then went on to tell us all about friends of hers who had so many problems with their adopted child that the child left home eventually in her teens and they never saw her again! WTF? Thanks for the positive encouragement mate!!!   I actually laughed and said one bad story wasn't about to put us off... but honestly, why do people feel the need to tell us 'bad' adoption stories? Don't they realise we've considered all this? That if we had a choice we would have a biological child? But we have weighed up all the good v bad and decided we really want to do this - so why can't they just keep schtum and support us?!   

Rant over, thanks ladies


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

''Adopt Adopt Adopt....... why do IVf when you can adopt?'' they all say all the time.

Oh, you say - ''OK I'll adopt then''.......

Then it is ''Don't adopt, so and so had problems with their adopted child''

For goodness sake - we can't EVER win with these people can we?      

Well done on your decision - it will be fab!


----------



## Clomidia

HH that is so true  - love it!!!!


----------



## Sakura 78

Seasquirt, I'm so sorry to hear about your missed miscarriage,    It does seem a bit insensitive really to be bragging about his daughter and then in the same breath talk about her friend's problems,  infact,  it seems a bit of an odd thing to be bragging about to a bank cashier you don't even know! Some people   

belle- bubble, I'm so sorry to hear about your miscarriage too, can't believe no one phoned you, I had a similar experience when I had my ectopic. I just think that some people haven't got a clue unfortunately and I've found the best way to avoid the disappointment is to not tell people anymore when I'm doing treatment therefore I can't get mad when no one bothers to see how it went or isn't very sympathic when it fails.  As for ********! Sometimes it's just good to hide some people's newsfeeds lol ! Big hug


----------



## belle-bubble

Thank You for that   I do think Family and friends find it hard to "Continue" with the interest and sadly the sympathy, My husband has been great, Hes really strong and level headed, MY family have been great, But not so much as a text message from his side.. It is baffling to me, and is upsetting, But I think you're right people just can't think of what to say so choose to say nothing. 
My next treatment, I am telling no-one, Only my mum (and obv the hubby has to know!!) I think any kind of fertility treatment is a learning curve, When I got pregnant I told everyone the minute I found out, Now I'll wait and enjoy the first months on our own- and ofcourse getting past the early days.. (hate it!) 

I do find it hard, as I know no body in my situation so in my day to day life feel a little isolated, But when i'm back on the tratment again I'll love to hate it... Hopefully before Or straight after Xmas I start again.

Good luck to you also  ,   all good things come to the ones that wait that's what I tell myself   

Belle xxxx


----------



## hopeful2012

I also understand Girls.

Its just one of the things we have to takle alongside everything else that goes with the rollercoaster of TTC.

My sister in law has just given birth after an accident!!! with her boyfriend - I was crushed as I had been trying for 12 months at that point and nothing.

We have not told my hubby's family as they are not always supportive and can be insensitive - however it has been so hard as this is their first grandchild and every time I see them thats all they gush about.

I just want to scream at them - then I have to remember that we choose not to tell them and so they don't know any better.

Its hard to decide who to tell and who not to.  

Like you say good things come to those who wait.


----------



## bendigirl

Hi Jackie and Loobs,

Thanks for your reply.  I had a similar experience to you Jackie in that a very good friend of mine had an abortion due to an unplanned pregnancy.  When you're struggling to get pregnant yourself those who chose to end one seem baffling and upsetting.  I didn't want to judge her but I struggled not to.  It's a mad world out there and you can guarantee for every woman facing heartbreak at the sight of yet another negative pregnancy test there's at least one other feeling the same way about a positive one


----------



## Victoriag

Belle, 

I needed to reply to you as I am in exactle the same boat!!  We discovered e were pregnant at firsr attempt of IVF pn the 14th August this year, by the 16th of September and second scan we discovered that our precious miracle had been lost and our fears confirmed.  

I had a D&C on the 23rd of September and due to complications got rushed to hospital on the 4th October with severe bleeding and had to go through the most horrific ordeal of a medicated D&C the one thing I wanted to avoid!!  It was scary, there was talk of a transfusion due to blood loss & I passed out due to the  pain I was in. Awful.

However my in laws who claim to be very supportive extremely religious and very interested when we got our BFP have not picked up the phone yet!  Not even a text message to find out how we are, if e are coping is there anything they can do??  I am astounded!!!!!  For people that continulously preach at how much they support great causes and couldnt be happier for us cannot be there in our time of need!  I'm angry!!

Its difficult aI feel bad for my DH but to be honest he feels the same way!  My parents as usual have been wonderful have bent over back wards to help and support us. So maybe this is the things that people don't say or do?  

I refuse to pick up the phone at the moment to them as I think I will say things that I cannot take back and I am waiting for the whole Christmas conversation to take place 

I dont apologise for feeling like this as I hthink that their behaviour is awful and they will definitely not be speding Christmas in my house!!

Rant over ladies Im sorry but its soooo frustrating!!!


----------



## coweyes

Victoriag


So so sorry to hear that you have had such a rough time.  I can relate to how you felt about your in laws.  I had a natural ectopic about 18 months ago and i certainly felt that my in laws did not take it seriously! I believed (maybe i am wrong)!! that pretty much everyone know that an ectopic can actually be fatal, so i obviously felt totally gutted when no one bothered to make any real effort to find out how i was. (i am not being a drama queen, but if i heard that someone else had had one and was in hospital on the emergency list i would be really worried about them!.  The other thing is no one checked on my husband who who spent the week end at home by him self, beside him self with worry!!


They did actually come to see me about 48 hours after coming out of hospital, but i found my sil and mil behaviour disgusting.  My mil said to me "you seam a bit off colour are you board!! wtf!!! my sil just sat there playing on her mobile.  The only thing they really asked me was "how does this effect you having children?  can you get pg again".  I found that question really hurtful, and was upset that they were not more interested in my health.  Felt like they were just being noisy.


Any way this is a long time ago 18 months and i have learnt to forgive them, i don't know why they acted the way they did, but know it would not have been deliberately to upset me.  As my nan used to say "nothing quirer than folk"


I don't really have any advice to me make it better, but i would say the whole tx thing is so so difficult anyway be careful not to accidentally cause yourself more stress.  Like i have said i have forgiven my in laws but will never forget the way they have treated me, i take them with a big bit of salt now a days. xxx


----------



## bendigirl

hi maiya2,

Thanks for your reply.  You think your safe going into a bank espcially when you see there's no pg women in there (not that I begrudge them their pg but don't particularly want to see them when I'm recovering from my m/c) little do you know the middle aged man infront of you is going to be an unwelcome reminder!  I can only hope the cashier he was talking to wasn't a lady in our shoes as I'm sure she wouldn't have appreciated what he said either.


----------



## squiggles

Hello Ladies

I had my 3rd BFN last Wednesday. One of my DP's sisters is getting married abroad next summer and the entire very large family are going. His mum has been booking holidays for everyone (not paying for them, just booking) but we told her about the IVF and asked could she wait a while. 2 days after my BFN she was round here pushing my DP to book the holiday. I couldn't believe it. So insensitive. Good job I got a BFN then so I didn't inconvenience them by having a baby instead of going to the bl***y wedding!!  Also she told DP of the women she has known in her life who haven't had children but have been happy! DP's Auntie couldn't have children and ended up getting divorced. Her ex married someone else and had 3 children. I so did not need to be reminded of that. Just feel as though she was telling DP get someone younger who can give you children. 


I then went to my Mums to find my brother, his DP and thier 6 month old had visited and my sister in law was so OTT with her baby as though it was a power trip.  I had to leave.

It will get easier I know. It's just hard now. 

xx


----------



## coweyes

squiggles

So so sorry that your having a rough time, family can be a right pain can't they. xxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## coweyes

sorry computer being odd!!


----------



## squiggles

Thanks Coweyes x

My Dp has 4 sisters - 2 heavily pregnant at the moment (one accidently after being with her new boyfriend for 2 months - we've been TTC for 2 1/2 years so that was tough). They are all very lovely... but not one has been in touch to ask how he is never mind how I am. 

Coweyes and Victoriag so sorry to hear about your mc and your treatment by your in-laws


----------



## coweyes

squiggles


Familys are odd! having lots of problems with my own at the moment, nothing about fertility but something pretty nasty.  Would love to be the other side of the world right now   , you can come with me.   xx


----------



## Victoriag

Raaarggh!!!!!

I needed that!!  

Hey ladies how are you?  Im not feeling my best today, Im Pee'd off that my DH is away until Thursday as it gives me too much to think about what could have been!!  My SIL has put that she feels fat and rotund on ** (shes due in January) I wish I could moan about that!!

The In laws have not been in contact yet, so that is still winding me up, I need a holiday!!!

Life goes on!!  

Sorry for the me post xxx


----------



## kitten77

Hi Vic - sorry your feeling so down, its not good is it.  and totally agree with people moaning on ** being fat and fed up!!! i want to be fat but i would NEVER be fed up!!!!!!  people do not appricate what they have got and never will. 

life does go on, but even that gets me down sometimes, as i feel....go on for what.....what am i going on for....aiming for..... ho hum. 

my SIL is due tomorrow, she hasnt once moaned about her pregnancy tho, which im grateful of, she i must admit has been the BEST with her pregnancies and not rubbing it in my face etc, but it will still be hard once the little one arrives and i realise she now has two and we started trying at the same time....  

just wish i could start tx again, but trying to move house (which also isnt going our way, talk about how much bad luck a couple can have...) and then its too close to xmas and i dont like it whent he clinic shuts down as you never know i mite need them.  

im already worrying about xmas, you know how it is, families, the age old 'oh xmas is all about children, its so lovely to treat them and watch theri faces' - oh...is...it....i wouldnt know.


----------



## kitten77

god just realised what a depressing post that was!!!! sorry ladies!!!!!!


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## coweyes

Kitten 


It is really hard, i am in a similar situation with family members and good friends.  But i try so hard to thing that we are on our own journey and even though its going to be longer and harder the main thing is that we get there, thats the bit i struggle with tbh!! xx


----------



## Victoriag

Hey Kitten,it wan't too depressing!!!  But I feel your pain poppet xx

As DH is aay on business had a massive chat last night with him, like I said I have had too much time to think!!  I told how I felt about the in laws and that I cant understand why they haven't opicked up the phone!!  People I work with have shown more compassion than they have!!

It makes me sooo angry as circumstances have dictated previously that we have bent over backwards for them and supported called and looked after his kid sister and yet we have had nothing!  I just dont get it!!  I need to move on but I can't and the worst bit is I know what Im like I have a tendancy to hold a grudge and I cant bear the thought of seeing them as I really want to say something to them!!  Which I know I cant as DH would be very upset with me but I want them to know!! 

Luckily they live some distance from us I live in Essex and they in Cheshire so we dont ssee as often as we do my parents  but I riles me!!  This isnt healthy!!

Coweyes you are always so positive in your posts bless you xxx Wish I could be more like you xxxx

Talk ssoon girls xx


----------



## coweyes

Victoriag

Ha Ha no not really, i try and post positive things unless i am feeling really down. I just try to be positive as i find it helps me become positive! If you know what i mean  . I really mean this, i felt the same after my ectopic i felt sick with anger at the way they treated me. Not just the ILs but my Sils as well. I could not understand why they treated me the way they did, was i absolutely nothing to them!!! I kept on thinking surely they know that i could have died!! everyone knows an ectopic is pretty serious, for god sake i was in hosp on the emergency list, they know this. I was totally cut up by it and it has chanced my thoughts over them and tbh i have never forgotten! But i have forgiven, i did not bother confronting them about it as it was not in my best interests they meant nothing by it, it was just the way it was. I was going through enough with out adding that to the list.

If you could then i would forgive them, not for their sake but for yours. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## kitten77

Last nite I went to see a group of friends. At the end of this evening a lady there who is a professional phycic said that she had a message for me. this message may I add wasn't asked for by me or paid for she just came out with it&#8230;.also I may add, only 2 people out of 8 know about my IF. She said&#8230;.

"ever since you came intonight ive keep getting told a message and the message is&#8230;.Adoption." 

So you can imagine my dismay at this and total shock. She then went on to say "I keep getting adoption, and that you are worn out and fed up, you have come to the end, you are deciding whether to go again and the message I get is don't waste any time and just go for adoption, there is no way you can have babies the 'normal' route (while I may add she was pretending to take a baby out her lady bits), and that there is a 2 year old boy waiting for you, but it will be by adoption"

So&#8230;&#8230;.. can you imagine now I want the ground to open up and swallow me, now I have 8 pairs of eyes all focused on me when all I now want to do is break down. 

I said i cant take that, as I don't feel like at the end and there are lots of other routes to look into before adoption (don't get me wrong me and DH have spoken about it and would do it, but at the age of 30 think there are a few other avenues that we can try before that). she kept saying the only way is adoption, my DH is sad and down about carrying on and no way can have normal baby. Where I then explain how can she say that when there is nothing 'wrong' with me. she stuck to her guns. 

Well a lot more was said, but just sooooo angry and livid at the way she gave me such a personal message in front of a group of friends (a group of friends I don't know that well I may add), and the fact before this I was sooooooooooooo Positive about our next IVF and was getting ready to go again. now in the back of my mind I will always have this 'message' - always thinking that this is pointless and its never gonna work&#8230;..im so angry, im sooo sad and sooo mad. 

And also, this I don't believe came out of the blue, my friend mentiond to someone else in the group who does hypnotherapy that I was thinking about having some before my next ivf to relax me etc&#8230;..and this was the first time I saw this group after this conversation so im wondering if he told this phycic so in turn used this information. 

Im sooo sad. I also want to prove her wrong, but always in my mind now maybe im never destined to have a child of my own&#8230;&#8230;.


----------



## alexine

Hi Kitten, didn't want to read and run. 

Do not listen to this woman who claims to be a psychic!!! A lot of them are very opportunistic and take advantage of people in vulnerable positions like yourself.....it's kind of a weird power trip, and my take on it is that she was kind of putting on her "psychic" show at your expense.

It's a shame if one of your trusted friends let the cat out of the bag, so be kind to yourself and don't let this woman's negative "message" fester in your mind. Rubbish! Get back into that positive and productive frame of mind you had before and keep moving forward.

Sending you loads of      

xxxA


----------



## Tama

Kitten   Like Alexine please don't listen to that woman, it must have been so hard for you and if your 'friend' did say something that is very very wrong!   You can prove her wrong, she is not a doctor and knows nothing about you or your journey. You never know maybe you'll have your own baby but in time go on to adopt too. Please try not to worry about her (easier said than done) but she is just a woman and has no link to your life. BIG     sweetie xxx


----------



## coweyes

I think if you went to see a proper professional psychic she would say that was bang out of order! That is so unethical to make that comment in front of your friends. Also i am sure that they have to ask you first, let alone if its delicate information, for that reason i think she is bogus and knows more than she is letting on. If she had asked your permition and done it discreetly i may (or may not!) have believed what she was saying as it would have been more plorsiable. Sorry can not spell. Ignore her comments and consider her as a sad lady who was on a power trip. xxxx


----------



## coweyes

sorry my lap top is weird keeps on adding numbers, may be the spell check has gone due to too much use!!  xx


Kitten i am sorry this lady has said this to you, your head must be spinning!   , yet another person who thinks they have a right to comment, before even asking.  xxxx


----------



## cosmicgirl

Kitten I couldn't believe what I was reading    I agree with whoever said the lady was on a power trip, surely no 'real' psychic would ever give such a personal and private message to someone with an audience like that, sounds completely unethical.  If she really did have a message like that she would have talked to you in private - by doing it in front of others means she was just showing off...and I don't think there's ANY coincidence that you told another friend about your IF beforehand.


She's probably hoping she spooks you enough so that you don't keep trying and you move on to adoption straight away - that way she'll be made to look like she was right.  Ignore the witch she's obviously a phoney by how she's behaved.


Sending you loads of    for your next try and keep hold of that PMA girl


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Unbelievable     

How could she!?

It is so unfair and horrid. I bet you were devastated by this insensitivity.
I can't help but think your ''friends'' think you ''should'' give up IVF and adopt - in THEIR opinion - and got this woman to say it to you.

You do what YOU want to do. These spooky, creepy people who have not got anything better to do than interfere with your head, can take a running jump.

OK if it does not work and YOU DECIDE that the time has come to stop - only YOU can decide that - then may be your next option would be adoption. But take absolutely no notice of what this person is saying. If there really is a 2 year old boy waiting for you to adopt, then when the time is right he will be conceived in time for when you are ready when he is two, and not before.


----------



## kitten77

thank you all for your hugs and kind words.  to be honest, im still upset by it.  not only upset by what she said but angry at the fact that she chose to say something so utterly private in front of a group of people without a thot for what i would be feeling!  im sooooo mad. 

im determind to prove her wrong, im a stuborn little mare and i will prove her wrong. 

i still cant get over it.  but have decided to not see that group again, not that i feel embarrased, but they were all so pittying and all had a comment on the subject afterwards where all i wanted to do was leave.  i cant be doing with that. it was my choice if i wanted to tell these people about IF, and i didnt want to, but now some women who thinks she knows what she is talking about, and yes if she was professional she would know not to say anything like that in front of people, has now spilled the beans on my life, im so mad, so very very mad. 

she is stupid isnt she?  that there is no proof in this at all and is just using the information my friend said to make her look good?


----------



## alexine

It might help if you ring her and tell her how her behavior made you feel.  Not necessarily to give her a blast, but for me, it would help to move past it. She was way out of line.
xxA


----------



## kitten77

hahah, i know what im like, if i rang her, she would apologise and then i would feel bad for ringing her and making her feel bad, so would feel ten times worse.  

im just not going to the group anymore, its not something i was mega keen on anyway so no loss to me and more time to spend with DH! ......making that baby that she so badly assumes we are not gonna do!


----------



## M2M

I'm absolutely disgusted with the behaviour of that "psychic". Something about what you wrote though makes me think she's not what you would call a professional psychic, as everything I have heard from friends who have seen reputable psychics implies that they're NOT meant to tell you stuff like that! My friend (who recently lost a baby) saw a psychic a few weeks ago who explained to her beforehand that she wasn't allowed to tell her anything such as "You're going to die" or "You're never going to have a baby" because it's irresponsible and can really mess up people's lives, their mental stability and their and well-being. So I think she was way out of line and I would take everything she said with a very large pinch of salt!   

Earlier this year a psychic told me I would have a lovely baby boy in March 2011! Hmmm don't think I've really got time for that now! Don't listen to her. xxx


----------



## baby maryam

Hello,
didn't want to read and run sweetie. You must have been really strong not to break down in front of all those ppl. I congratulate you for that!!!

I know you are scared, but put her out of your thoughts. She could not know what will happen in your future, as no human being knows what is awaiting us in the future. Our destiny is being decreed by God and there is no way anyone could guess things and get them right about anyone. Psychic? Yeah right. Phoney, that she is. 

Don;t worry about her and just keep on chasing your dream and believing that your next trial is the ONE... you will have a baby, one way or the other, but whatever happens, be sure that there is no way that she or anybody else could know what is there for you in the near or far future.


----------



## joeyrella

i don't believe in psychic abilities at all, i think they just make educated guesses based on what information they can glean about people and then follow their body language when they start to give 'the message'.  
i bet she's heard about your situation through one of your 'friends'.  what a horrible thing to do to you to make you the centre of attention      and to use you to make herself look good.  she should be ashamed of herself.


----------



## Victoriag

hey Kitten just caught up!!!

OMG HOW DARE SHE!!!!

I would havgot up and left but you probably did the right thing!!  you sound like me in how you would feel if you called though those TYPES have a tendancy of making you feel guilty without trying!!  oooohhh  it makes me feel angry for you!!!  The annoying bit is that she is cracking on with things without a thought of how she made you feel and yet you are clearly and rightly very upset by this !!  Damn it its not right!!!

Dont you and all of us on here have a enough to deal with without idiots like that  Shocking!!

You raarrgghh away and be angry poppet we will listen and support you!!!

Much love!

V

Can I just add that I dont believe in that sort of thing and it should be taken with a pinch of salt so please dont pay any attention you will get there


----------



## coweyes

Kitten i hope your feeling a little better today  

I am feeling pretty down today  , went out last night with my dh friends. They all know about our situation, as he has mentioned it before. One man that i have never met before asked me if i had children, i said no he then said "o is he firing blanks". I thought maybe he was unaware of our situation and was just being a bit thoughtless + we had all been drinking. So i gave him the benefit of the doubt and told him that we had had a couple of rounds of ivf, thinking it may educate him. It made him worse he was saying "the whole town knows that he is firing blanks" laughing and laughing, completely belittling our situation. He said lots of other stuff. Anyway a bit later on there was lots of us talking when he said"i have one thing to say to you adopt" it was really cringable for everyone I told him that he was being disrispectful and that he he carn't go around saying that kind of thing.[/size] And that he had no right to talk about this so publicly, he appologysed but by i was inconsolable and everyone know what happened.

[/size]I was so drunk that i just sat at the table and cryed and i cryed all the way home. I have woken up this morning so embarrassed by my own behaviour and lack of self control. Why does it all have to be so hard and complicated. xx


----------



## coweyes

sorry my stupid spell check again. x


----------



## alexine

Don't be so hard on yourself Coweyes...if anyone had lack of self control it was that jerk!!!   
You didn't embarrass yourself...it doesn't matter what those people think and to be honest there were probably a few people there that were compassionate enough to have empathy for you in that situation.
Don't beat yourself up. 
xxA


----------



## coweyes

Alexine


Thank you, Yer several of the other people were angry with what he said,  to be fair to him he did apologyse  loads once he realised how upset i was.  In the end he just said i will go and got up and left.  I just struggle to move on when someone says something like that esp as it was so publicly.


----------



## Fraggles

Kitten77

Hugs
Maybe she is a fake or maybe what she says she believes is true but perhaps looking at it differently yes you may choose to adopt some time far of in the distance but maybe you will also biologically have you own children too. Decisions that we may not choose now we sometimes choose in the future even though it seems improbable now.

I have had readings too in the past but have been told decisions I make along the way may change the outcome as it is not set in stone. So perhaps for example, a change of treatment, a change of clinic, a change of dosage, a change of meds, choosing to have acupuncture to help things or some other choice you make may change whatever "she sees" for you now and you will still have your children biologically. 

Don't let her unprofessionalism affect your choices. She should never have said that in a public forum. 

Lots of love

F x


----------



## Fraggles

Coweyes

Big hugs. The guy is obviously an insensitive jerk who can't handle his drink or know when to shut the f up.

He is probably really embarassed by his behaviour, no doubt he will be put in his place by others who are there and be made fully aware of the upset his actions caused.

Don't ever be embarassed about showing your true emotions or feelings. Your friends won't think anything less of you and positively by showing your emotions will actually have educated some people about how difficult this journey is.

Lots of love and hugs xx


----------



## beachgirl

Coweyes, sending you a virtual hug, what an insensitive person


----------



## Fingers Crossed 35

Coweyes, I totally agree with Alexine, please don't be so hard on yourself.


Unfortunately unless you're in this place it's difficult for most people to understand. I, myself cringe at how naive I was about sailing through tx and believing for me it would work first time. I always wanted to adopt too, one tx and 2 adopted was my dream. Never thinking that approval for adoption would be so hard and with me having a history of depression, there's no chance.


I'm not sure it's people's ignorance that hurt us so much but I think their words trigger our own deep held feelings about it all which is why it's so upsetting. After all do you really care what a stranger thinks? From what you said it sounds like he was trying to be funny and blase. The fact he left means it's hit home what he's done so maybe for him he'll hold off the comments next time. God knows there's enough of us in this situation so you've probably helped others by just showing your sweet self and for that I thank you.


Fi xxx


----------



## coweyes

Thank you all for for your lovely comments, the first thing i wanted to do was get on here and share what happened, knowing that i would get lots of support.

I know i should not be so hard on myself but i try really hard to be gracious about the whole situation, i don't believe in spreading negativity so try really hard not to over react etc, but could not cope with that situation  . Made me feel really sad. But as my dh would say time to let go and move forward. So basically i need to let go and forget, something that i do find hard. 

HOpe your all having a lovely Sunday, i am glossing my bathroom door today and hopefully painting my living room (well starting).

Take care everone and thanks so so much for your support.

Kitten hope your feeling brighter and have managed to forget the stupid cows comments. xxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## KellyB73

Hey Kitten, just wanted to say that years ago i saw a "psychic" who told me I was single (I was engaged but had taken off my ring so not to give any clues), that I drove a car (good guess!) had had a termination(when I said I hadn't she said I must have had a miscarriage and didn't believe me when I said I hadn't!).
This was about 15 years ago and I don't think anything she predicted came true!  The fact that she told you such personal things in front of other people shows what a fake she is, anyone who has a gift would never do such a thing.  Big hugs to you xx

Coweyes - big hugs to you too xxx

Kelly


----------



## JasmineX

Kitten - I've been a silent lurker on here for a while, but just couldn't not respond after reading your post.

That psychic was TOTALLY out of order - she should not have automatically assumed it was OK to speak about something like that in front of a group of people, and should not have claimed that she was right - she is not God. 

I do believe that some people have a gift, but those people also have a great responsibility to deliver that information in an appropriately sensitive way. If she truly had the gift, then she would not have acted in this way. I think that this woman used what she had heard about you for the benefit of her ego, and I feel devastated on your behalf about how wounding that must have been.  

I agree with KellyB - to make yourself feel better and to prevent others from suffering at her hands, I would write a letter and tell her how she made you feel. It might even help to write the letter and then burn it rather than send it, and then forget about this hocus pocus    witch altogether.

Sending you some extra hugs    

Coweyes - That man is an insensitive jerk. So sorry to hear you had to go through that. Stay strong. Sending you lots of   , too

Hi to everyone else...lazy Sunday doing chores for me   

 

Jasmine
XXX


----------



## fc 72

Hello there - I haven't been on this thread for ages but like everyone else was absolutely horrified by what this so-called psychic said to you, Kitten.  In my view this person has some serious psychological issues and you should rise above it - believe you are bulletproof!!  No-one will ever like her and you needn't trouble yourself further with such a psycho.
BTW - someone I used to work with got pregnant with her healthy twins on her 6th tx, so there is always hope
Take care!


----------



## kitten77

thank you thank you thank you for all your kind words and understanding, i knew i could come here and get some understanding. 

as you can imagine, im still pretty cut up about the whole thing, now i will have in the back of my mind that IVF may NEVER work. but im trying not to let it get to me. 

im more angry of the way she did it, the fact that she thot ti was ok to talk about that infront of everyone, and your right if she was professional then she should know thats not right!!! i can tell you now i will not be going back to this group. 

thank you Fraggles, thank you for saying what you did, that i CAN and WILL change my outcome, i could make a different decision and alter the whole life. so STUFF HER stupid f**ker (sorry for swearing), you know nothing, know nothing abotu me or my life and only said that cuz someone told you, if you were real would wouldnt have needed someone to tell you that. 

Coweyes - OMG!!!! OMG, cant believe someone could be sooo insensitive (well actually i can) but you have nothing at all to be embarrased about, nothing at all.  totally understand how such a shocking comment would make you cry, people do not understand if they havent been in this situation and at least some people have some tact, but this man didnt.  hope your feeling better, and goes to show that the rest of the group would never be insensitive and understnad, even if only a little, that its upsetting.  im glad he realised and left! 

big hugs to you me dear.


----------



## dyellowcar

Hi,

I've been following this thread for a while and then took some time off. Just caught up with all the post and OMG Kitten! 
Can I just say this, to add to what has already been said.

My friend was told, by a 'psychic' approx a year ago... there are no babies in you! She, like yourself was utterly devastated, and as she was at the time undergoing various investigations for IF.

Her first TX was BFN but she is now currently pregnant with twins and due in the new year.

I think like others on here some people have a 'gift' but this woman was totally unprofessional and no real psychic would tell you anything infront of others. I also believe she had info from a totally earthbound source, i.e your 'friend'.

You need to stay positive and put this womans' comment completely out of your head. 

We make our own destiny!


XXX


----------



## baby maryam

I don't know where to start... I had a micarriage in the spring of last year, the pregnancy was a result of my 2nd IVF. 
A good and very close friend of mine knew the whole story and how much I sufferred after the m/c both mentally and physically. 
She got married at the end of last year to another good friend of mine. They were also looking into ICSI or IVF because he had been previously married and he knew he had a very low sperm count. While getting ready for IVF- she fell pregnant naturally, thank God, only a few short months after getting married.
So, we talked via the net-chat and she was telling me about her 20 week scan and how much she fell in love with her little baby. I was honestly and sincerely happy for her. And then, out of the blue- she told me- that I am lucky to have lost the baby so early (I found out the HB stopped when I was 12 weeks, but it had stopped about 10 days earlier, so at 10 and half weeks). She said, the baby at 12 weeks is not really a baby ?! and that it does not even resemble a baby, and that if she was to suffer a m/c she would prefer to have it early like me as compared to the 20 weeks where her baby looks like a real baby. I mean, what the?!    

It is soo insensitive to tell somebody who has suffered a m/c that YOU know how would you feel if you have never had it... I would never wish anyone to miscarry, even the greatest and biggest enemy. But that really hurt. My baby was not a real baby? Yeah, it was just a peanut, but it was MINE and it was conceived with much love and as a result of many surgeries, 2 IVFs and 5 yrs of marriage. 

I love it when I get these comments from ppl who get preggo at the drop of the hat. 

   

Sorry for the rant... just remembered it and had to take it out.


----------



## kitten77

oh hun, really sorry for your insensetive friend.  and im also sorry for your mc. hope your lookinng after yourself and ignoring your friends comments. 
big hugs


----------



## JasmineX

baby maryam - what a dumb and insensitive thing to say to you, or to anyone for that matter!    So sorry to hear, and hope you are laughing her comments off and not letting them hurt you     

Jasmine
XXX


----------



## baby maryam

Silly me, I was worried and upset for a few days, but then realized that you cannot explain anything to an insensitive person. They live in their own world. 

So, I do not bother anymore... 

Thank you Kitten and Jasmine for ur kind words.


----------



## coweyes

Baby Maryam Well put!  Dont let it cast negativity over you, stay positive.  xxxxxxxxx


----------



## Clomidia

Baby Maryam, that was incredibly insensitive of your "friend". I am so sorry for your loss   I have had lots of people tell me that my chem pg wasn't really a pg as it was over so soon, but you know what, if it feels that way for you, then sod everyone else. I think a lot about my 5 beautiful embryos that we lost last year, and yes, they will be lost for us, because they were the beginning of life... so big   for you and   for that silly lady 

Kitten, that's dreadful I am so cross about that so -called psychic      I went to one last year who told me my relationship with dh was in trouble (absolutely rubbish, we are strong as ever!) and that I would have three beautiful children ...   Eh yeah, if only you silly moo... what a waste of money that was 

Coweyes, sorry you got so upset. That's a horrible situation for you and your dh to be in. It bugs me so much that people have to come out with these stupid, inconsiderate or down-right offensive comments. Big hugs for you


----------



## coweyes

Clomidia


Thank you, just had to let it go in the end, one of the worst social situation i have been in though.  But think maybe he will have a bit more knowledge of infertility    from now on. xxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## spooq

Was at a family event with DH on Friday evening (DH's side). All of them know about DH & I's IF struggle and our failed TX. Had a few inappropriate comments. One of my favourites came from a well-loved Aunt of DH's. She is the one person I would never have expected such crassness from. I was totally flabberghasted and could barely control myself - thought I was going to start blubbing right in front of everyone. She was flicking through photos on her iPad and pointed at one, "This is my brother. He and his wife don't have any kids either. They went through the whole IVF thing too. But it didn't work. They're happy just with each other." When she was saying this she kept nudging me. This all came after my MIL had just finished describing to us the toy car she'd bought my niece for her Xmas and then turning to me and saying, "Don't worry, I'll get one for you when you have a baby" and then DH's Aunt said "Maybe not." I just thought it was completely out of order given that DH and I are not at the end of our journey, we are between TX's and that everyone knows we're just waiting and saving money. Nothing like being positive!!!


----------



## coweyes

spooh


Personally i think some inappropriate comments you have to let go, as its an odd and uncompfortable situation for all.  But the comment "may be not" is bang out of order.  What was she thinking saying that!!!If you get on well with this lady can you mention that is was hurtful?


Take care of yourself and try not to let this stupid comments put you on a downer. xxxx


----------



## JasmineX

Spooh - Dh's aunt was completely out of order. If she loves and cares about him (and you) she wouldn't have said that. She has obviously got her own issues going on. If you get a chance to see her one on one and face to face perhaps you might feel brave enough to confront her? Otherwise, just put it out of your mind as best you can. It was a horrible and insensitive thing to say. Hope you haven't taken it to heart.     

Jasmine
XXX


----------



## baby maryam

Spooh,
could not read and run, as I sometimes feel just like you. This is the reason I hate family gatherings, as my hubby and I are the only childless couple on his family side. 

I think that you should have her sit down and hear you out. Talk to her and make her understand that IF tx are not your choice, but the unfortunate cards you were dealt and you have to learn how to cope with it. That you need support. And that she is one of the fav ppl from his side of family and that you did not expect to hear such hurtful comments coming from her. 
Maybe she will come around to understand that she did hurt you and apologize and make your heart mend... it is sad to lose respect for ppl just for the things they say without thinking right or putting themselves in our shoes. 

I give you my hugs...     

I have had ugly comments coming from the uncle's wife of my husband. Being that we are muslim and that muslim men are allowed to legally marry more than one wife at the time- they told me to stop wasting money on tx and get him a second wife to have kids with. Obviously, this is none of anybody's matter, if the man wants a second or third or forth, he is quite capable of deciding that and getting it on his own. But ppl make everything their own business, even how we conceive... Mind you, I was only a bit over 2 yrs married and we were at the beginning of our tests, not even knowing who has the problem or how to treat it. 

I simply never went back to their house again. When I was asked why, I was honest- I did not feel welcomed there and felt as if I was being scored based on the fact that I did not conceive. Of course they said their sorry's but too late for me. 

My husband says I am too sensitive and should brush off these comments with a smile, tell them- it is mine and his decision to make. It is important we love each other and we are going through this together, even though it is me who cannot conceive naturally. But- being the one who has the problem- I sometimes just feel that ppl should find another topic to talk about other than my pregnancy or non existence of it... 
It is enough for me that I torture myself daily for it, I need not to be reminded by their stupid insensitive comments.


----------



## kitten77

Unbelieveable!!!!! 

Spooh - hugs babe, why cant people keep their comments to themselves!!!!

Baby Maryam - OMG OMG - i have never heard anything so utterly awful, take another wife indeed, do they not think before they speak - hugs for you!!!   - and at the time you say you were going through tests so they didnt know whos 'problem' (hate calling it that), it is.  im so glad you told them why you never went back, good for you! hope they realised what they said!


----------



## baby maryam

Hi Kitten,
thanks for the hugs hun  . To be honest with you, if I kept a penny for each time I heard a stupid comment from ignorant ppl, I would have a fortune by now.
It is smart to turn the deaf ear sometimes and just ignore them back, for our own benefit. 

I don't think it is anybody's business to "give advices" on this matter esp if they themselves are not going through IF. It is the couple's decision what they end up doing in the end. Thank God my husband is mentally in this with me and he considers it a "couple thing" rather than my issue and not his. 

And the road is not over yet... we still have a fight to put up and hopefully we will get there some day. All of us!!!


----------



## Kitty71

Hi ladies,

It beggars belief what people say and do. I'm so sorry to hear all the dreadful things people say especially when it comes from our supposed nearest and dearest.

Afer a recent negative cycle I'm having a bit of a melt down at the moment to the point of losing it completely and I'm finding it increasingly difficult to keep control of myself.

Today my aunt sent me an email titled "Mothers are special" which contained pictures of lots of animals with their babies followed by a chavvy mother swinging her baby by the ankle. Lovely! I replied saying that it's a shame I'm not a mother and now she is of course mortified as she knew we were having IVF. I'm so cross I could scream but I'll just go home and cry like I usually do.

Sorry for the rant, no one else understands   

kitty xx


----------



## coweyes

Baby maryam.  People are really thoughtless and stupid with their comments, i am sorry that your family have not been more sensitive.  But its the old age saying that people dont understand the hurt of fertility until they have been through it.  I always struggle to know how much leyway to give others and their insensitive comments,  I wrote on here about a month ago about a situation i was in when i really did loose it.  I now know that the man who really upset me generally had no idea how i felt.  I have forgiven him but still believe his behaviour whether he know much about infertility or not was totally unacceptable.  I have since learnt that he wanted to send me flowers to appologyse, feel quite sorry for him  now!!


My sil and brother are muslims (my brother converted) i was a little worried about telling them about our ivf journey as i was unsure what their believes would be on it.  I can honestly say that they have been so so supportive, much more supportive than other members of my family.  My sil mum when to mecca and while she was there prayed for us, it put a tear in my eye   .  Ps she is also called Maryam.


My dh also says ignore the negative comments, he said he has heard it all before and does not care about peoples stupid comments!!  he says it makes no difference to our journey.  But its difficultx x


----------



## baby maryam

Coweyes,
you have put a tear in my eye now... I don't know what I would do sometimes if I did not have this forum and people like you  ... 

As for your brother and SIL being muslims and the IVF- Islam is supportive of IVF as long as the wife's own eggs and the husband's sperm is being used in the process. No donors and no surrogacy.   

That is so sweet of ur SIL's mom that she has prayed in Mecca for you... Awww... I hope God will grant her and you your most desired wish some day soon, ameen. 
I pray for all of my FF buddies, especially those whom I have met and whose stories I know well. It is said that when we pray for our brother or sister in faith- the angels say "ameen and to you as well". 

May God make mine, yours and all of our FF's freinds dreams come true and let us all become parents some day soon, ameen.


----------



## baby maryam

Kitty71,
I totally understand you and why you feel you want to scream... it is just so natural. 

Just keep on believing that it will hapen for you when it is meant to be. Not a day before, or a day later... 
It is a hard road, but those who get to the end of it and succeed, soon forget what a troublesome road it was. Because the reward is sooo sweet... may we feel that sweetness soon!!!


----------



## coweyes

Baby maryam


Yes my sil pretty much said the same thing.  As long as its just between a man and a woman than thats seen as honarable, but no other woman or man can be involved eg no donors.  Yer there a great sil and brother and have given us wonderful support.  I often wish i was religious as i can see how positively it effects them.


I am glad you liked my post, i get so much support on this site i can honestly say that i dont know how i would have coped with out it.  I have to go on here everyday, it just makes me feel apart of a community that understand me, if that makes sense.  Often feel a bit on the outside in every day life, sorry dont mean that to sound sad, just pretty much impossible for others to understand if they have not been through it. xxxxx


Kitty how are you feeling today?  xxxx


----------



## baby maryam

Yes, coweyes, you make perfect sence to me. I also come here for support, and I have one very close and dear friend who herself went through 5 yrs of IF after which she had her 2 kids. 
Everybody else... well, it is hard to explain to them unless they are going through it themselves. 

And religion helps too... at least it helps me to get through the toughest moments, to know that this life has a purpose, that everything happens for a reason and that all of this heart-ache will be worth it in the end.


----------



## Kitty71

Hi girls,

I know what you mean about religion. I often wish I had faith because it gives immense comfort and hope and goodness knows we girls need all we can get. I'm not religious at all but I was told that St. Anne is the lady to send your IF prayers to so I bought a little prayer card from a Catholic bookshop and prayed every day through tx. 

I'm feeling a bit better now as I've had my FU and have planning tomorrow. It's amzing how getting started again gives you hope again and buffers you a bit against the things that can upset you so easily. Having said that though we are having a 6 week old visitor in the office today and I'm going to have to hatch a plan to get out of the to make myself scarce for an hour or so, because I just can't face the little mite and all the cooing.

Have a good day everyone,

Kitty xxx


----------



## kitten77

....just had to quickly share.....just been told 'that i shouldnt get so emotional about being infertile and just live life' - NOT TO GET SO EMTIONAL....WTF.


----------



## coweyes

Kitten77


Some people are naive and no matter what you say to them they just don't understand.  I would remember that comment and personally never discuss it with them again.  I had a work mate who i used to talk to about our situation but she made a couple of horrid comments like " why bother wasting your money on ivf why not just adopt" since then i don't bother talking to her about anything personal.


Some stupid naive people arnt worth wasting your time on.  Not being horrible about them but they will never understand, just the way they are. xx


----------



## baby maryam

I cannot tell you to not pay attention, as it would hurt me as well, but hey... ppl who have not been through infertility cannot and should not talk about it and what would they do if they had it. You simply don't know the feeling until you are stuck in that position...

I wish it for nobody... 

And hope some day all of these worries will be gone and we will be on the other side of the story, with our babies in our hands!!!


----------



## Fraggles

Oh Kitten 77 please give me their address so I can go round and ramraid their front door whilst making sure their water pipes burst. Big hugs. You know some people who say some really idiotic and stupid things. Big hugs.

My sil said to me on Xmas day as I am 42 that if I want to get pregnant this year is a real crucial year for me, particularly as I am also not on the housing ladder as I lived overseas and house prices shot up by about £100k plus whilst i was gone, at the same time she said if you want to get a mortgage it is also a crucial year as otherwise you won't have paid of your mortgage before your retire. It is so lovely to have her support ......


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Rose    

Even my closest friends and family had started to ask me that question before my last (and thank goodness successful) cycle. My younger sister (no kids and not sure she wants them) was always asking when I would give up

The only response I could find was that to give up would be far far harder than to continue and that I simply could not imagine a life without a child and therefore I had no option but to persevere...and that I would very much appreciate their support along the way but if they found that difficult then I would simply ask that they did not discuss it with me further 
Of course you can have that sort of conversation with a sister/family member but it's harder with friends etc as often you can't be quite so forthright. With friends I would simply say that I would know when it was the right time to stop treatment and then try to change the subject as quickly as possible. I didn't tell any of my colleagues about tx so never had to have that conversation with them but tbh I think it's got to the point where offending them is the least of your worries and I'd just be honest and say that you're finding it very difficult and would prefer not to talk about it thanks very much....and hope that shuts them up

Not easy at all though and I really feel for you, I hope you have much better luck this year,
  

And    to everyone else here who is still struggling to reach that much wanted BFP. I hope you don't mind me posting here as one who has (hopefully at least - 10 weeks to go...) come out the other side, but I experienced so many of these comments over the past 3 years and I do know how terribly hard it is

Suitcase
x
Suitcase
x


----------



## Fraggles

Suity


I love that you still post on the different threads, I always know you have wonderful words of wisdom and find it really comforting to know you have been here and now you have done that (got that wonderful BFP).


F x


----------



## Rose39

Suity - thanks so much for your advice. You described exactly how I'm feeling now - that the sadness and pain I would feel if I gave up on tx and had to come to terms with never having a baby (especially having suffered a miscarriage) would be much harder than the emotional/physical challenges and financial hardship of continuing tx until it works. Unfortunate circumstances mean that I was forced to give up on the idea of having a baby naturally in a loving relationship, but I'm not going to give up on tx just because others (who have been lucky in having their families the traditional way and who have no idea what I'm going through) think I should do - especially when my consultants say I have a really good chance of success if I continue with donor eggs and get some good blastocysts in my next cycle (and I'm choosing a donor with embryo quality as my primary criteria for my next tx). And my parents are very supportive of me continuing tx.

Everything significant that I've achieved in my life so far has required hard work, determination and persistence, plus a degree of risk taking and flying in the face of convention - why should this be any different?

I'm so thrilled that it worked for you and that in 10 weeks' time you'll be a new mum ... I'm keeping hopeful that this year will bring good news for me (and no more horrendous and really unusual bad luck!). 

Rose xx


----------



## JasmineX

Hi Ladies

Haven't posted on here for a while, hope you are all doing OK   

I wanted to post about something I found upsetting over Christmas - and that is, it seems the new fashion for people to design their own Christmas cards centered around photos of their new babies. I received three different ones this year.

Will someone please tell me why the hell I should want to put a photo of someone else's baby in a Santa hat on my mantelpiece? Especially one I am not related to?! And also, for those friends who know that we have been having fertility problems - do they not have a brain they could use to think that it might be like rubbing salt into my wounds to send me happy baby photos at this time? Grrrrr!!!!!!   

Is it just me that finds this upsetting?!

Perhaps next year I will take a photo of me and my gorgeous husband in Santa hats and send that out to said friends as a card - perhaps they might get the message?   

Jasmine
XXX


----------



## coweyes

Jasmine I have not received any of them but yes i would find that upsetting esp if they know.  The one thing that gets me is when people send cards and add "+ the baby bump!" I find this quite rude.  I know its only cos they are exited but just like what your saying i feel its unnecessary, so there for why send them to me.  A normal card will do, tbh i do think some people like to show off, not everyone who sends cards like that but still a fare few.  xxxxxx


----------



## Kitty71

Hi girls,

Happy New Year,

Jasmine I know what you mean about cards. It seems to me that where babies are concerned peoples tact - if they have any - goes out the window. I wouldn't dream of sending a divorced or single friend (or anyone actually) a picture of me and my partner. Or sending a picture of a new house to someone who's just been repossessed. You just wouldn't do it. 

At Christmas my mom felt the need to stress the fact that her step daughter & son would be taking their baby over for a visit at new year. I don't know why she had to mention it at all. The baby is 1 and would hardly be left home alone ?!? Bah humbug!

Kitty xx


----------



## JasmineX

Thanks for your support ladies


----------



## English Rose

Hi Ladies, can I join, I seem to be on the receiving end of stupid things people say.  The latest being a fertility nurse when discussing my endometriosis said that what I need to do is get pregnant....no kidding Sherlock!!!

Jasmine, I know how you feel, I have it bad on ********.  At one point I had ten profile pics of scans.  Then my brother created a new account for his then unborn child of which I was invited to join, which obviously I had to.  It makes you want to cut your heart out  
The thing is though, if I ever did get pregnant and have a baby, I'd be telling the whole bleeding world.


----------



## joeyrella

last year i posted on the previous stupid things thread that i had had a christmas card from a friend's bump and was so shocked i put it straight in the bin.  this year i was the one happily sending christmas cards with photos of my baby on the front (only to my family though, not friends!).  you never know how quickly your life can change, i hope you are all sending your own (admittedly tactless) christmas cards out next year.
x


----------



## JasmineX

Thanks English Rose and Joeyrella...your posts made me smile   

xxx


----------



## butsy

hello there,

I too have suffered the 'happy families' christmas card.  What I'm thinking of doing next year is sending out cards to all our friends with children (who are suffering sleepless nights, have limited funds because one of them is unable to work full time and haven't been out in months), with pictures of my husband and I out enjoying ourselves, with our healthy bank balance, drinking and eating whatever we like - possibly in our house in spain that we would never have owned if we had successfully reproduced.

Also, what's all this GIVING UP business?  You don't just GIVE UP.  You continue until you feel the time is right and if your'e unsuccessful then try to accept the situation, grieve and attempt to get on with your life.  Its never an easy decision.  I've had the opposite comments, as we're at the point of thinking we just can't go through with this any more.  So many people have said 'you can't give up now!'  - as if we are just being weak and selfish and can't be bothered.      I tend to reply by politely asking if they have the £6000 spare it will cost for another cycle, as our NHS Trust has just withdrawn our funding.  It usually shuts them up.

GGRRRRR having a ranty day.

B x


----------



## charlie_44

Butsy - your Christmas card idea made me    

Hope you ladies don't mind me still being on this thread now that we've decided to give up treatment and are starting the adoption route.  The stupid comments never cease.  

One of our friends who knows our situation told us now we are going to adopt we will probably fall pregnant naturally.  Not sure which part of 'no sperm' she doesn't understand    

The nurse who was doing my smear was going through the questions on the form and asked me if I was on the pill.  I told her no, so she said oh arn't you married?   I told her I was so she asked if we were using condoms to which i said no and she looked disgusted at me   oh she said are you trying for a family, to which I replied hmmmm yes, well not really and ended up having to tell her we've had IVf which was unsuccessfull.  She then said we just need to get away on holiday and relax like her friend did.  You should have seen her face when I told her not if hubby has no sperm   stupid stupid mare   

 to all


----------



## livity k

On the not getting the blindingly obvious I did have to twice tell our otherwise great ICSI consultant off for telling us not to have unprotected sex at certain points of treatment, the reason we were having having treatment was due to my husband's inability to ejaculate due to paraplegia! 

If we could have had unprotected sex we would probably never have met him! 

Livity K


----------



## linzy

Hi ladies have you all noticed the new app on ******** that pop's up nearly everyday teeling you how far into her pregnancy your friend is and how the baby is developing!!! Thats before the scan pic's and the newborn pic's to follow!! 
And also I hate it when I talk to friends about TTC and they come out with silly comments like "My hubby only had to look at me and I was pregnant" Now is not the time to brag!!!! But I don't say anything I just smile when inside im feeling sooo angry!!


----------



## M2M

linzy said:


> have you all noticed the new app on ******** that pop's up nearly everyday teeling you how far into her pregnancy your friend is and how the baby is developing!!!


Oh yep, that one has been popping up all over my ******** recently. I clicked on the little "X" in the corner and chose to block that particular application so I don't have to see it.  I really don't need that from several different people once a sodding week! I am happy for them but will choose when I want to look at their scan pics and pregnancy news - don't need them shoving in my face every day.


----------



## Fraggles

Hi
Yes on the subject on ******** I am so happy for all my friends who are pregnant but am fed up with them sharing their news about their pregnancy with scan photos and then daily reports on feeds etc once their little one is born. I know I am being unreasonable and am happy for them but it does remind me more what I don't have.
F x


----------



## kdb

Good grief, have not seen that ** app (yet) - thank goodness!  Sounds hideous.  It's incredibly hurtful to see something like that when you're struggling to conceive, and if you're not TTC then it's just plain uninteresting!!!


----------



## ceci.bee

I stopped using ** a while ago as even without that app, it upset me all the time that friends replaced their photos with baby and all their updates were about how cute their baby was - it was practically all my friends at one point and was just too upsetting to log on - and so now spend all my old ** time on FF instead - much more fun and relevant and supportive!   but seriously - they should publicise how to block that app, as it sounds exactly like lots of women don't wnat to see


----------



## English Rose

I just wondered if anyone else wants to slap the Aussie couple who after doing IVF terminated the twins she was carrying because they were boys and they already had 3 and wanted a girl.    
Oh to have the luxury of choice!!!


----------



## linzy

Wow English Rose that is shocking!!!! Im disgusted!!


----------



## kdb

Really?  What doctor would agree to giving a termination just based on gender?


----------



## kitten77

serious!?! i didnt hear that. thats discusting, and morally wrong! and no a doctor shouldnt have done that based on gender, and after going through IVF!!!!! what!!!!? 

i would sell my soul to have a chance of a baby....and gender.


----------



## kdb

Considering all the forms we have to fill in, and declarations that we make about how we will be good parents, surely there should be a clause to sign that says - unless there are genuine health reasons for mother or baby/ies, terminations from assisted conception shouldn't be allowed?

If they wanted a girl they should've gone to an US clinic that does gender selection at embryo stage via PGD


----------



## kitten77

to have the gift of IVF working and then to chuck it all away just breaks my heart! how can they do that.


----------



## Tama

OMG not another one     I've heard this before. Makes my blood boil that anyone could do that and the doctors should have their licences taken away for letting this crazy woman have IVF only to get rid of two healthy children     Kitten I too feel like I would sell my soul - sometimes it feels like I already have but the devil hasn't given me that baby yet    

BIG hugs to anyone that needs one today


----------



## linzy

I think that is murder those babies were planned and healthy they should be locked up!!!!


----------



## English Rose

It is rather despicable and it gets worse.  The full story is that they did have a girl but she died after a month and they want to replace her.  They are still grieving for her loss.  And then they deliberately do this to their 2 sons.
I am stunned that they were allowed to go through IVF surely the money would have been better spent on bereavement counselling.  I feel for their first 3 sons to think that when they grow up they could be left thinking 'thank God I wasn't number 4 or 5'  Needless to say, it's not gone down well in Australia!!
I feel quite drained over it, utterly numb.


----------



## Clomidia

English Rose, that's very sad. That couple really shouldn't have been allowed to do IVF if they were still very obviously dealing with the loss of their daughter. That's why we have the HFEA regulations here, thank goodness. 

Just wanted to wish you all Happy 2011.  Don't forget to do this every so often:   

A funny story - we have started looking at new houses and found one we liked - mentioned to my mother we were thinking of moving to it - her reply: "new house, new baby!!!" HELLOOOO silly woman, what part of 5 years of infertility, failed txs and heartbreaks do you not get?!?!    Unless of course she was expecting me to start [email protected] the new postman or milkman perhaps and hey presto...    

Clomi xx 

PS I am going to be a mother this year; I am determined   Please God


----------



## coweyes

Clomidia

Ha ha how silly, i still get "go on holiday, its bound to happen!"  Its so silly i just dont know what to say.


----------



## Clomidia

The sad thing is there's still a part of me that wishes they were right and I was wrong


----------



## baby maryam

Oh my God, what we have to go through apart from treatment and self torture!!!

Some of my friends know that I have tubal issuses and therefore I cannot conceive naturally since both have been ligated- but I still sometimes get these stupid comments like- do you stand up immediately after intercourse? Hmmm well it does not make a dif anyway... the swimmers have a blocked route right?
Or they tell me to use some type of herbs and drink that... yeh...
And one more funny advice- just have s#$x as much as possible without getting stressed out and it will happen for you. Yep, yep... all trully unbeliavable.


----------



## kitten77

Clomidia - i had EXACTLY that comment to when we put our house up for sale last June (yes last june and still not moved  ) - i must have had about 20 people say 'new house = new baby' - hum.......! cuz thats all it takes, someone should have told me 4 years and 5 txs ago!!!!!! argggh. 

baby maryam - hum.... if only we realised we had to have sex hey!!! argh....people do not listen to what you say as they are to busy thinking up some nugget of knolwdge that we havent thot of!


----------



## little pumpkin

I'm quite new to all this, having only started tests/scans etc in October, but all my close friends know that we have been ttc for 2 years. Aside from all the usual classics one mutual friend of DH and I tolds us the other night how much she loves having photos of her baby all over the house because "until you've had one you can't imagine how they become the most important thing in your life and you just can't get enough of them".  When we got home I started crying and hardly stopped for two days. I took the next day off work sick. I know it seems like an over reaction but I can honestly say that that is the lowest I've ever felt. So scared about starting tx and not knowing what is going to happen, and yes I do know how important and precious a baby is otherwise I wouldn't even contemplate all of the prodding and poking and needles and hormones and heartbreak. I just don't undertand how she can say that to me when she knows whats going on.


----------



## coweyes

Little pumpkin


Sorry you have felt so down, i have been in the same situation, some1 makes a so called innocent comment and i can not think of anything else for about 3 days!!  I try really hard to just concentrate on my own situation and block out comments from well wishers who tbh don't know the full story.  But saying that it still hurts me deeply and makes me feel even more isolated.  xx


----------



## JasmineX

Little pumpkin - so sorry to hear about what happened, I have been in a similar situation where I have had to run home and have a good cry after someone made an insensitive comment. Hope you are starting to feel better


----------



## English Rose

Hi Little Pumpkin, not only do we have to put up with what we go through with tx but it is obligatory to develop the skin of a rhino.  Beside DH, obviously  only 3 friends know that we've tried ivf x3 .  So if anyone else says anything insensitive I can put it down to ignorance and try not to take it personally.  However, one friend who had become pregnant when talking about share the news with a mutual friend who she knows has been ttc for years said 'I'm not going to make any apologies because of her infertility'.  I felt I'd been slapped!    She then proceeded to complain through out her pregnancy...worse morning sickness...worse pre-contractions...  When she was a couple of weeks off her due date we chatted about what she was planning and she mentioned how giving birth is the most painful experience, I then said that some women will say, not being able to give birth is more painful.  And now of course it's the sleepless nights...
If I ever get pregnant, I want the worse morning sickness, bring on days of labour and I would love to have constant sleepless nights so bad that I feel like a zombie and I will make sure that I enjoy every flipping bit of it.   
Pumpkin, it does hurt ....try not to waste too much time on what they say, some people are just pain stupid... Now that you've started the journey with your tests and scans etc the only person that is important is you so make sure you put yourself first even if it means at the expense of others.  Oh, and practice on a Paddington Bear stare, a good one can shut people up at 50 paces


----------



## little pumpkin

Thanks everyone for all your replies. 

Its so good to have support on here and finally to have some understanding from other people. I think at the moment I'm still trying to come to terms with the fact that we will not be able to get BFP on our own. Hoping that I will feel a lot better about everything once we have a plan and we know whats happening with tx. All the waiting around having no clue what is going on or how soon is a killer. 

Big hugs to you all


----------



## flowersinthewindow

Hiya

Sorry to hear that so many people have been hurt by the insensitive comments of others. Over Christmas it was my beautiful God daughter's 1st birthday. I went to buy her some helium balloons at a shop where I know the manager. It was a bit uncomfortable when she misheard and thought it was for my daughter but the worst bit was when she said to me "Yeah you haven't got any children yet have you" (whilst looking me up and down!) then "You really should do something about that you know" then when I was paying "You know it definitely is time you had a baby!". Now, I was on the way to a 1 year old's birthday party which I had really had to psyche myself up for as I knew me and DH would be the ONLY ones without children in a room full of babies. So the balloon lady saying this was a real test! The most ridiculous part of it is that I am a nursery school teacher (balloon lady knows this) and clearly absolutely LOVE children so I think it is hilarious when people suggest having a baby as though it had never crossed my mind.
This is how I deal with it. The comments people make (hopefully) come from a place of love and certainly a place of ignorance
1) I am glad for them they have never had to suffer infertility and so they don't think of it
2) I think about the intent behind the comment and try to rub out the actual words they said and just think of the well meaning feeling
3)I wonder how many situations and conditions there are that people I know have had/are suffering that I am ignorant about. I think I have probably said things which have upset them without even knowing. I would be so upset if I knew. So I am learning to not judge, to listen and not offer advice only friendship.Love, Fowersinthewindow


----------



## beachgirl

Morning

Just wanted to remind everyone that this is an open forum which everyone can read..not saying that you can't have opinions but please remember that some topics are sensitive.

Karen


----------



## skyblu

Hi ladies,

I didn't know about this bit of ff and just stumbled on it.
I like many of you have had the same stupid comments from people who do know what you are going through and also people that don't.
The worst ones for me was when I was 6 weeks prg with my first ivf baby, my cousin was also prg with her first at 12 weeks and my niece at 7 months and when I had my m/c at 10 weeks I did not hear from one of them as if they didn't know it happened. (they did).
When my niece had her little girl I went to see her and gave a gift and had a cuddle, still nothing said as if I was never pg.
When my cousin had her little boy this was much harder to deal with as my baby would of been due 6 or so weeks later, but I held my head high went to see her gave a gift and again had a cuddle, still was made to feel that my prg never happened.

A year and another 2 failed ivf tx later my cousins little boy was one and we were the only one's not to be invited to the party!!!
This really upset me and my mother made sure she asked why we weren't invited, and the response was "well we didn't think she would want to be in a room full of babies and toddlers after what they have been through ".
As my mum told her , she could understand were she was coming from, but giving us a choice would of been kinder.
To this day she has not said sorry, but I still find it hard been around her little boy as it just reminds me of our lost one.


When my nice and her family came for dinner over New Year(she is prg ), she said " who wants to see my scan pictures, you don't mind do you now you are not trying for a baby and given up trying".
I just gave her a look and walked out, while my dh gave her what for, she then said she shouldn't be worked up in her condition, which then my dh walked out.
I t was not the best day but I did talk to her later on and sorted it out but I still don't think she gets it.

I think most people don't fully understand what it is like not being able to have a child of your own, but on the other hand I do have friends and family who try and get it.
I hope the ladies on her who do have some hope, you get your bfp soon.
Skyblu.xx


----------



## charlie_44

Skyblu - I can totally relate to you - when we had our miscarriage my DH's family totally ignored it   it's as if it never happened.  I will never forget that they couldn't be bothered to pick up the phone to see how we were or even send a text.  I know some people don't know what to say but a 'thinking of you' is all that's needed.  It was our baby and it did happen.  Now that we've decided to go down the adoption route they think that they can ask all about that subject and be kept up to date   

People think we should be over babies in general now but just because we're hoping to adopt doesn't mean it doesn't hurt like   that we won't ever have our own.  

Charlie x


----------



## skyblu

Thank you Charlie, we have decided not say anything about us adopting until we have to (only my mum knows)
And when they do find out I am sure there are going to be negative comments about that also.
But without raging hormones I think I will be ready for them.

Where are you in the process, we have just had our first home visit.
Good luck and keep me posted.
Skyblu.


----------



## English Rose

Hi *Skyblu* - sometime I feel people think we just come to the decision to no longer try for a baby much like waking up and deciding to wear pink today! Wishing you and *Charlie 44* plenty of success with your adoption journey


----------



## charlie_44

Thanks skyblu, we've had our first visit and should be on the prep course starting next week but that looks like it will be on hold as there's not enough people for it yet.  We're so disappointed at this set back (they never stop) but hopefully it won't be too long before it does go ahead.  We haven't told many people we're wanting to adopt - after all the treatment I struggle to think it might actually happen so don't want to jinx it by telling people.  Of the few we have told, a friend told us now that we're going to adopt we'll fall pregnant naturally - now that would be a total miracle for us    So yes like you I will be ready for when I tell the rest of them and I'm sure the stupid coments will still come once we have children (touch wood if we are lucky enough!).   

Thanks English Rose


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

It is amazing how many people will tell you that as soon as you relax or change your route to parenthood that you will fall pregnant naturally, just like that - without knowing any of your medical history. Even when you have told them all of your medical history (none of their business) they still don't get it.

I sometimes think that I need to get out a basic biology text book and explain that to have a baby you need an egg and a sperm - if DH has not got any sperm then that is impossible!

However, it is really uncanny how many people this phenomenon of natural pregnancy does happen to when they go down the adoption route. I have an IVF friend who this did happen to - no word of a lie. So I guess, the well meaning people, trying to give you hope and sympathy are only trying. They just haven't passed biology exams and it comes out stupid under certain circumstances.


----------



## Maryliz1980

I hate people who tip toe around me with their announcements. Today I found out I will be putting on another baby shower for one of my DH's co-workers 38 in 3 years. I wasnt even told by the girl having the baby but one of the other ladies I am close to in DH's office. I am thinking of stepping down from Social Chair Person I can do all the christmas do's and other going away parties and retirement shin digs but these baby showers are really taking me down. 

I also found out my Sister and Sister In Law are giving birth on the same day YEA  ( my possible EC day) this is # 4 for my Sister and # 3 for my sister in law every time they go on and on about babies I just want to walk away and cry WHEN IS IT MY TURN. 

After all this I went to my mother and got the people say the stupid things moment. She said straight faced to me well why don't you ask your sister what she does to get pregnant .


    I need to stay calm


----------



## ceci.bee

Maryliz      to your mother, can't believe she would say something SO insensitive!!! and         to you - yo   WILL be a mummy too and will appreciate it so much more than your Sister and SIL -            for your upcoming cycle
lots of love
C


----------



## little pumpkin

Hey Maryliz1980,

That is exactly why I have put off telling my mum for 2 years. I finally have to tell her because I am hoping to do egg donation and the consultant has asked for some information from her medical records as part of my checks and tests. Don't know if she is going to cry, tell me to"just relax" or have some totally unhelpful (and lenghty) advice for me. Going home this weekend to have the chat. Have my fingers crossed  . The more time I spend without a baby the more I realise that the pain of being childless is totally unfathomable to anyone who has not been in this situation. I know my friends are genuinely trying to be kind, but when one of them offered to be a surrogate without any knowledge of why we are having trouble ttc I could have slapped her (I actually pretended to be really grateful for her generosity). 

I am coming to the conclusion that I should be thankful to the people who I know are trying to be supportive (even if they always say the wrong thing) and just let the others go. Though admittedly we can't let our mothers go


----------



## charlie_44

My sister and my mother have said they wished they could be a surrogate for me - I know they were just trying to help but as far as we know there's nothing wrong with me, it's my lovely DH so why that would help I don't know   Mind you both my sister and my mother fell pregnant at the drop of a hat


----------



## coweyes

Maryliz


----------



## Maryliz1980

Thank you coweyes .. I am needed to get it out cause keeping it in is not going to get me   for EC day. I am better today my auntie * my mothers sister * is also infertile she never really talked about it she is 55 now last night she called me and we had a nice long chin wag over all my feelings. She said my mother can be mean sometimes because she just does not know my mom had 4 kids in a span of 8 years all before she was 26.


----------



## coweyes

Maryliz famies are complicated enough with out adding in what we all go through.  Nice of your aunt to call you, good luck for ec day. xx


----------



## coweyes

Hello, no one has been on this thread for ages.  xxxxxxxx


----------



## Fraggles

Hi I know isn't that great.

Although I had that golden oldie about someone who has never had IVF but of course is an expert in it - you know the one stop trying, relax, have a holiday and you will get your BFP. She knows because her friend who was having IVF took a break from it, chilled out a bit and went away and a bit of nookie later and there you have it she got pregnant.

Oh aren't we so lucky there are all those experts (aka nutters) out there able to share with us where we are just going wrong.

x


----------



## coweyes

Fraggles  God i hate those silly comments, i resorted to "if it was that easy the nhs would not fund us for 2 rounds of ivf"!  That made them think   .


I had a stupid comment from my work colleague, we have just found out that i have a chromazone problem which means that 3 out of 4 of my eggs will be effected and there for will either not implant or must miscarry, hence the miscarriage that i have already had.  I told my work colleague i had a chromazone problem and he said " o that explains the reason why u are the way you are!!"  Dont get me wrong he was only joking and said sorry strait away.  But it was so unnecessary and really hurt ahd to go to the toilet and have a good cry. xx


----------



## Fraggles

Hi
Well good news they have found out now about the chromosome problem so treatment can be amended accordingly. 

I think people feel uncomfortable and make everyday quips which in usual every day life and circumstances would be funny and we would be fine about but when it comes to tx which impacts so greatly on our life it isn't appropriate but people just don't understand when they haven't been through it.

Am sorry you have the problem but fingers crossed you now start getting the result that you want.

xx


----------



## coweyes

Fraggles


I do agree, i tend not to say much back.  I only say something back if someone is deliberately being horrible other than that i think why bother.  You have to learn which battles to fight. 


You are right about the chromazone problem, we now know that we need pgd.  xx


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Hiya,
Coweyes, it is great news that you have a reason and can now get the right treatment.    

As for your colleague - there but for the grace of God go I - as they say - how does she know that she doesn't have a chromosome that will cause a cancer or something else.
Ignore them they are stupid.    

You have reminded me. I heard a similar thing once when I was on a chat forum for people with broken legs. I had a severely broken ankle at the time and was off sick from work trying to get tips and support. Also at the peak of our suffering of IF issues and my injury had yet again put everything on hold.

One of the women on there started spouting off about someone she knew who was infertile. She said something like the woman was mad for getting so upset about not being able to have children and in her opinion there was always a good reason why people who could not conceive naturally were not meant to breed as there was something obviously defective about them.

Well - you never know who you are talking to in this life and I have to say I laid into her. It made me so angry that she could say such a thing when there are people who have children willy nilly and couldn't care, or worse abuse and murder them, when people with IF care so much to go through the struggle and would love their children more than any others in the world.

Made me MAD


----------



## M2M

Some people make me so mad.   Big hugs to those of you at the receiving end of such stupid and insensitive remarks!

A colleague of ours was made aware of our miscarriage during our absence from work (DP and I work in the same office and were off at the same time after our recent loss). When we walked into the office the day after our compassionate leave, the first thing he told us was that his baby daughter had just started laughing. Since then he's spoken to us only to tell us that his baby has a new tooth or has had her first haircut. Lovely, wonderful, but a little insensitive. It's almost like he's trying to remind us that he has a child and we don't. I don't want to think that way but I worry that's what his intention is.   

The worst thing was yesterday at work when he spent about 15 minutes discussing "freak babies" (awful) at the top of his voice and talking about fused embryos and women giving birth to "dead foetuses" and so on. He is the sort of guy who has conversations which involve the whole office. I had to leave. I ended up walking to the kitchen in tears and finding DP who was in there making me a cuppa. I just cried and hugged her, then another colleague came in to find me and check on me. Thank goodness I have DP and other caring colleagues at work.

Having to put up with him on a daily basis is driving me mad at the moment - just deleted him off ******** tonight as I can't be dealing with him knowing anything about my personal life!


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Sounds like your insensitive colleague needs a good talking to or a letter explaining to him why it is extremely poor show carrying on like that.


----------



## alexine

*M2M* Your colleague is an insensitive ! Some people are very strange when it comes to dealing with sensitive issues. You are also right...he doesn't need to be privy to your personal life...toasting him off ** is the way to go. I hope you are feeling stronger soon.
xxA


----------



## coweyes

Yer people odd. Over the years I have learnt that peoples reply is very varied and unpredictable! 

M2m
What an idiot! Could u or ur partner have a word with him? Xx


----------



## MandyPandy

Oh M2M I'm so pleased to see a post from you.  I've been missing you on the forums but completely understand why you've had to take a break.  

...and more   re: your colleague being so insensitive.  I can only assume that as he's a male and has absolutely no idea about IF issues, he puts your wanting a child on the same platform as his having a child and somehow equates the two so thinks you'd want to hear about how wonderful it is to have a child.  Men are SUCH plonkers at times. 

AFM re: stupid things people say, I've had all the obvious: 'why on earth are you bothering with IVF when it takes so much out of you', to 'take a holiday and relax', to: 'It'll happen one day, you just have to believe', etc., etc.

...but the worst was an old colleague of mine.  When we met up for drinks and I confided in him about our IF issues, he reared up on me and just started having a massive go at me about how selfish I am for wanting to do IVF when there are children out there who need adopting.  He went on and on and on at me about how I should adopt and about how inconsiderate I am.  He had me in tears but he still didn't stop.  Needless to say I've not seen him since and plan never to see him again if I can help it.


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Have a look at the news discussions board about the Jeremy Vine show - it is a familiar theme.
Apparently our luck means that we are not entitled to want our own children or to want to fulfil a natural maternal instinct.
We have to provide a service to society by adopting.

It is a load of old tosh and don't listen to it. No one tells the fertile people of the world to stop having kids and being so selfish when there are children that need a home already born - so why should we if it is not 100% what you want or need.

You have to be 110% committed to cope with the rigors of the adoption process and taking on a damaged child the third parties of social services and the birth family. If it is not what you want then there is no point as it is the needs of the child. We are under no obligation to provide a social service. We are free to choose the route to parenthood that suits us. No one else's opinion counts.

If this chap has children, then I suggest you ask him why he was so selfish and had biological children when there were ones that needed a home. If he has not yet had children then inform him that after what he said he can now never have a biological family or marry anyone who wants a biological family as he has stated his moral position and committed himself to adoption. I hope that shuts him up good and proper


----------



## MandyPandy

LOL!  If I ever speak to him again, I will be sure to.  

I've listened to the Jeremy Vine show and read a lot of the comments about it.  What a nonsense topic it was - it was just there to create sensationalism.  Adoption and IVF are two issues that are not compatible and cannot be interchanged.  One does not go hand in hand with the other at all so trying to compare them like that was never going to be anything other than inflammatory.   I told my mum about it yesterday (she's in Australia) and she thought it was hilarious that anyone should even try to put the two 'eggs' in the same basket.


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## coweyes

I have had lots of people say to me o why don't you just adopt, one even told me i was wasting my money on ivf!  If society wants to try and encourage people do be more open to adopt then maybe put a law in place saying taht people can only have say 2/3 biological children and if they want more they can adopt.  I know its against human rights, but its against our human rights to presume that because we are unfortunte enough to need help to start our families we have a moral obligation to adopt.


x


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## M2M

Thanks everyone.  I think my colleague just doesn't have a brain... *MandyPandy* I think you have a point there. He sees that we want a baby and thinks "Oh we have something in common as I have a baby so maybe they'll be interested in hearing about babies." Hmmmmmmmm... am trying not to judge him too harshly as he is not the most intelligent of people but OMG he is so inappropriate sometimes. I should probably mention this is the same guy who stands up every so often and says "When are you two gonna do IVF?"  The joys of being a same-sex couple in an office of mostly guys... however now he knows we have been doing IVF hopefully he won't mention it again. Who knows. 

Funnily though this guy's cousin is one of my best FF buddies (met her through this site... just a weird coincidence!) and she can't bear him either  - she told me that his fiancée was apparently joking about IVF on ******** the other week. I don't think either of them have a compassionate bone in their bodies to be honest!

As for the whole adoption debate, I've mentioned this before but we spent two years in the adoption process and I have honestly found three cycles of IVF "easier" and bear in mind none of them have been ultimately successful! - okay it's completely different and can't really be compared but I have found fertility treatment VERY stressful yet not as stressful as those years spent in the clutches of social services. Ultimately after two years we were rejected. When applying for adoption we were doing what we thought was "right" - instead of "bringing another child into the world" - in hindsight it was clearly not "right" for us despite it maybe being what society expected of us and what seemed like the moral thing to do.

The whole attitude of "Why don't you just adopt?" drives me crazy and I think the only people who say it have absolutely no idea about how complicated, stressful and invasive the adoption procedure is. Yes IVF is complicated, stressful and invasive but adoption is a whole different ball game... and you really need to be a certain type of person to be able to cope with it, get through it, and ultimately bring home a child at the end of it.

We were told on our training course that only 1% of our local authority's adoption applicants actually bring home a child at the end of the process.


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## charlie_44

Big     to you all.  Some people are just stupid   and rude   


The stupid comments never stop - I've been told 'now that we're going through the adoption process, we WILL fall pregnant' (no sperm so not sure how that works   and she knew that   ) and also from someone 'when peple have made the decision to adopt why would they still be a lil sad that they can't have their own'   


I was recently at a one year old's birthday party (for a sit down meal in a pub) and my friend said I would be best sat next to the babies to keep them entertained   ermmm thanks for that    The dad also made a speech saying that all the parents in the room would know how hard it is having babies and how it's lovely that they look like their parents as they grow up - Grrrrrrr I will never know   


I just wondered if anyone has come across this to?  I made two good friends going through IVF (they don't know one another) and they were the lucky ones and each had a baby.  I remained supportive to them but it seems like I am surpluss to requirements and I hardly hear from them now.  I've mentioned if I'm having a bad time and it would be nice to chat but hmmm nothing   I know they will be really busy now and that life is different but is it too much to ask for a phonecall now and then?  One does send me pics of her lil one but never a 'hi how's you?' with it.  I did feel quite hurt by it as I would never have done the same had it been the other way around but I guess once they had their babies that was it.  Plus both said they would always be sensitive on ******** and not do as others did with there babies as it hurt them at the time, but hey ho they soon forget   Can you delete anyone without them knowing?

Sorry for the moan.

Charlie xx


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## MandyPandy

Oh Charlie I'm so sorry to hear your friends have disappeared.  When you go through the journey with people you'd like to think that you'll be friends forever as you'll always have a shared understanding.

In my experience, however, it doesn't work that way.  I've found that when people who have been through IVF eventually succeed, they can forget what it was like when going through it all (which I think is a good thing as hopefully when it happens for me, I will too forget about all the trauma it took to get there).

Unfortunately, whether it's right or not, you will quite probably remind them of that pain and now they have a child they are 'normal' members of society and fit right in and don't want to be reminded.  They've achieved what they set out to do and most likely just want to put the whole process behind them.  Unfortunately that includes you.   

It's hard not to take personally but I've learnt not to.  It's not meant that way at all.  It's why I've found that IF is such an isolating journey.  You talk to other ladies about the various stages of treatment in intimate detail and when they get a BFP and you don't, you're suddenly on different paths again.  I've learnt to let go.  To take the contact as and when it is offered but to make new friends when others move on.  

If you're still trying then hopefully one day you'll be able to rekindle the friendship with them but by then you will have probably made some more friends and maybe you'll be one of the lucky ones who has forged a new friendship with someone else at the same stage as you.

...and you can delete them from ** without them knowing.


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## MandyPandy

M2M said:


> Thanks everyone.  I think my colleague just doesn't have a brain... *MandyPandy* I think you have a point there. He sees that we want a baby and thinks "Oh we have something in common as I have a baby so maybe they'll be interested in hearing about babies." Hmmmmmmmm... am trying not to judge him too harshly as he is not the most intelligent of people but OMG he is so inappropriate sometimes. I should probably mention this is the same guy who stands up every so often and says "When are you two gonna do IVF?"  The joys of being a same-sex couple in an office of mostly guys... however now he knows we have been doing IVF hopefully he won't mention it again. Who knows.
> 
> Funnily though this guy's cousin is one of my best FF buddies (met her through this site... just a weird coincidence!) and she can't bear him either  - she told me that his fiancée was apparently joking about IVF on ******** the other week. I don't think either of them have a compassionate bone in their bodies to be honest!
> 
> As for the whole adoption debate, I've mentioned this before but we spent two years in the adoption process and I have honestly found three cycles of IVF "easier" and bear in mind none of them have been ultimately successful! - okay it's completely different and can't really be compared but I have found fertility treatment VERY stressful yet not as stressful as those years spent in the clutches of social services. Ultimately after two years we were rejected. When applying for adoption we were doing what we thought was "right" - instead of "bringing another child into the world" - in hindsight it was clearly not "right" for us despite it maybe being what society expected of us and what seemed like the moral thing to do.
> 
> The whole attitude of "Why don't you just adopt?" drives me crazy and I think the only people who say it have absolutely no idea about how complicated, stressful and invasive the adoption procedure is. Yes IVF is complicated, stressful and invasive but adoption is a whole different ball game... and you really need to be a certain type of person to be able to cope with it, get through it, and ultimately bring home a child at the end of it.
> 
> We were told on our training course that only 1% of our local authority's adoption applicants actually bring home a child at the end of the process.


I only think it's probably like that as most of society do too - i.e., congratulations! You're trying for a baby! How wonderful! ...because 90% of them think that getting pregnant is the easiest thing in the world so why shouldn't it just happen like that with IVF?

It will definitely come from a place of ignorance rather than malice.

I always try to look as the lack of sympathy re: IVF in a positive way - if someone doesn't understand it and jokes or makes ridiculous comments about it, it means they have never been through it and may never know the harsh reality of it, which is good because I really wouldn't wish it all on my worst enemy.

Good grief re: the adoption process. I do get annoyed when I tell people we can't have children naturally and the immediate, and I do mean IMMEDIATE, response is always: 'Why don't you adopt?' It shows there is real ignorance about the whole issue. I also think there's an element of people being stumped and not knowing what to say and it's just the first thing that comes to mind without them thinking.

The difference in my case was that when I explained it all to my friend, he still kept calling me selfish and a pathetic human being for not wanting to adopt (this was before I'd even gone through my first tx cycle).


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## coweyes

Charlie I think Mandy is right as I have had this experience as well.  But saying that i have one friend whO has been brilliant, she says yes i have my baby but it all still hurts. She still finds it hard when someone announces their Pg. But aPart from her all other friends who have had treatment and succeeded have not given me much thought!

As for ******** I stopped going on it as I found it made me angry and upset and tbh it was of the best things i did. I just became obsessed with it it really brOught out the worst in me. Stopped using it and found the whole situation more bareable. Xx


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## MandyPandy

kandykane said:


> MandyPandy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've found that when people who have been through IVF eventually succeed, they can forget what it was like when going through it all
> 
> 
> 
> we're not all like that, in fact sometimes it goes completely the other way. i hardly dare be publicly happy about this baby because i don't want to upset people. i've tried to not mention it much on **, to the point where one of my ** friends sent me a pm last week asking if i was pg cause she wasn't sure (and i'm 7 months so it's not new news). i don't want to rub my belly in public in case it upsets a stranger going through IF. i also stop myself posting on here sometimes because i don't want to offend people who've not been lucky yet with the fact that i have. all this because i remember the hours, weeks and months sobbing over other people rubbing their fertility in my face. the years of pain and hurt i've endured and that other people are still enduring. i swore i wouldn't make anyone feel that cr*p if i could possibly help it. so yeah people can be rude and unthinking but some of us still have hearts. and yes it still hurts when other people fall pg with hardly trying. and when people pester me about number 2 when number 1's not even here safely yet. and when they tell me now my body has got the hang of it i'll 'pop a few more out'. I think IF is always with you and those who forget what it was like should be ashamed of themselves and try for a bit more empathy.
> best of luck on your journeys ladies xx
Click to expand...

 I know not everyone is like that. 

I'm merely trying to present a possible indication as to why Charlie's friends _might_ be like that so as not to take it personally.

Best of luck with your pregnancy. Not long now - how vv exciting for you!!!


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## lisajb

Hi,  Ive gone through two negative cycles now and I think the only people that understand are the ones that have gone through it.  I sit in an office full of ladies who talk about their weddings and then in a few years we'll have a baby oh if it was only that simple.  I think they must think I've got something seriously wrong with me like I'm one in a million who can't have a baby or get pregnant.

After telling family about the negative cylce i get comments like why don't you go abroad and have one of these kids like all the celebs are..............not sure if they are serious or just idiots.

My sister talks about hiding when she saw a girl at work who'd just had a still birth and I think how nasty, are people doing that to me..............I am normal I can talk about it.

I had a miscarriage and my mom calls asking me if I'm better?  ........she then wonders why I put the phone down on her, but she still says..........not sure if I had a miscarriage or maybe it was just a heavy period whats the difference?

You know I didn't even bother telling my family now I don't receive their support so why include them...............you know this is bitter but sometimes I wish some people could experience a little of what we go through they might reconsider what stupid things they say.

I must admit that certain friends who have got pregnant seem to forget or don't have the time for us still hoping and praying to be the next one.

What annoys me is the people that hide and don't talk to you don't ask how you are, because the more I do talk to people the more people I find out there who are having difficulties getting pregnant.

I 'm only glad I found FF and have a friend who's going through the same we support each other and we have a right laugh about it......................I guess all the office is sick to death with IVF talk.  I'm sorry if I sound a bitter person I'm not its just ill educated people with very large feet.

Oh yeah I couldn't go to my nephews birthday party either because its for people with children.................say no more....at least we all have each other 
LJB X


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## charlotte80

I heard a good one today - sitting in the staffroom the deputy head starts talking about why parents put their children in nursery, she thinks its so sad watching the babies being taken into the pre-school. She then went on to say if people have children they need to think about staying at home otherwise they miss so much. I just sat there keeping quiet thinking at least these people have children. She talked about how she gave up her job when she had children are learnt to survive on little wage etc etc. I agree with you LJB that the only people who understand are the people who have gone through it too. I have also had two friends mention adoption to me and even though they mean well they just don't get it. Charlotte


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## lisajb

You know maybe we should not sit there and be quiet maybe we should speak about it? or maybe that will cause the person to think oh I'll have to Say something and then come out with a daft comment.

Can't win maybe have a competition to see.what the most stupid comment is.................oh here's one I was so stressed at work was working 14 days straight and had severe headaches most prob a migraine.  Well I was pregnant at the time 8 weeks gone (Oh I've just reached 40) but started to spot I naturally started  to panic and went to A&E great peoplethere no silly people.............they tell me I can take tablets for the headache.  I go to Boots and buy Boots own brand paracetamol, I'm with my husband he asked the lady (not a young one older than me) Are these OK to take whilst pregnant?  She looks me up and down turns to my hubby and says well who's pregnant.  Quick thinking hubby replied well it isn't me is it.

Suffered a miscarriage the following day so maybe if I do get pregnant I'll pop back to see her.


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## lisajb

Oh another one following my first cycle of IVF I had Hyper stimulation of the ovaries its very painful I was in agony I couldn't go to work explained to my manager who said I was off with acute tummy ache..............


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## charlie_44

Thank you MandyPandy and coweyes   you're right and I should just let it go   

Congratulations kandykane and kdb - lots of good wishes to you    

lisajb - some people just don't get how devastating a miscarriage is, it's cruel to go through treatment, to amazingly getting a BFP then have it snatched away   

We have chosen the adoption route and are very happy and excited with that (though the pain will always be there a little) but I totally understand why it's not for everyone unlike some people who think it's like popping to the shop   People cannot understand the pain of infertility unless they have been through it themselves - I wish they could walk a mile in our shoes   

Lots of     to you strong strong ladies xxx


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## Han72

Hi all

I really hope this comment doesn't cause offence but can I just remind everybody that this is the _negative cycle_ board? As such I really don't think it's the right place for those with BFPs to post about comments that have been made relating to their pregnancies.

I'm not saying that you're not welcome to talk about things that were said while you were still TTC, or to post here in support of others or that now you're preg you're not just as likely to be confronted with people saying stupid things, just that maybe this isn't the right place to post about them

Perhaps we could have a mirror of this thread on the pregnancy boards?

Again, let me reiterate I am not saying that I think people with BFPs shouldn't post here in support of those still struggling, just that the hurtful comments that others have made relating to your pregnancies are best kept to the appropriate part of the site.

   and      to all

xxx


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## coweyes

Its all such a mind field!  I try hard to remember its not them against us, if you know what i mean. Other people have the right to be pg even though its a struggle for me.  I also look at my life and realise that i dont want their life because my own life has lead me to the point that i want a child with my dh, others life is different and often not at a point that i would necessarily want a child.  Not better or worse jut different.


I never want IF to become about them and me, i live in a world that others will 9 times out of 10 find it easier to get pg than me, we will get a long fine as long as there is a little bit of two way respect.  


I understand all the negative stories about pg announcements as i feel the hurt hugely but the most important thing is to remain focused on our own journey. xxxxx


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## kdb

Oh.  Sincere apologies if I caused any offence or hurt.

I have deleted my posts.


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## Han72

Hey I know no offence was meant, nobody needs to apologise for anything, I just wanted to remind people of the original purpose of the thread and it's location on the negative cycle board


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## lisajb

Hello ladies,
I went to the clinic today following a BFN on 27th April I hadn't had my monthly cycle.  Bit of a slap in the face waiting the two weeks and not having a period thinking this is it I'm pregnant and thinking of telling everyone its worked, anyway it was negative and no period.  I've done a few tests and they were all negative but due to the late cycle I still clung to some kind of miracle.

So waited the two weeks the clinic told me to wait and then went in for a scan the doctor was quite sympathetic but it was like a rerun of doing the first test I just wanted to get out of there but held a brave face wanting to run out of there crying.

Rushing for the door the doctor said oh may I ask you one question.............thinking oh its about trying again he turned to me and said how on earth did you get the urine sample in that sealed jar?

As I needed to provide the urine sample I hadn't a bottle to store it in and at work we need to take urine samples from people and they need to be double sealed so I took one from an already opened medical kit.  It brought a smile to my face no wonder it took him ages to test it.  

I had to laugh when I got to the car how on earth did he think I got it in there evaporated it or just magic.

Anyway he couldn't explain why no cycle its either the meds or my natural hormones are stepping in.


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