# Mum blames IVF for having imperfect baby and ruining her life



## Miranda7

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1257008/Is-MY-fault-twins-Downs-A-39-year-old-mother-reveals-regrets-having-IVF.html

Blimey. I felt furious enough to leave a comment, but I just didn't know where to start.


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## beegey

Another Daily Mail classic


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## Guest

An emotional ride indeed but surely her docs have explained to her that it is EGGS and age that determine babies' outcome....any egg fetilised in any way (ie au naturelle/IVF/IUI etc) could have had the same result....I don't get why she thinks her chances of Downs were less by not doing IVF?    Both of her babies are gorgeous


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## BABY2

I wrote and re-wrote my post so many times since I tried to read the whole article and as it seems I cannot put my thoughts down properly without saying something nasty about the woman, I shall say nothing  except for that the babies are absolutely gorgeous   and what a blessing to have these two bubas


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## maybe-if

I looked at "selling our story" a while back. DH had azoospermia, but miraculously 11 sperm were found that were useable. I ended up having IVF and concieving his twin babies while he was in Afghanistan (he is in the army). I also donated eggs.

One journalist I spoke to said that the story makes much more money if it is controversial. She kept pushing me, asking if I regretted donating eggs, or if it caused problems in our marriage!

She was guiding me to try and make something up really!

In the end we didn't do it for lots of reasons.

But a serious ***** of extra cash when you have had twins... Well it is tempting!

And I can see the flip side too. If she went through all that, through the trauma of IVF, premature babies and then to deal with Downs, I wonder if she may have gone through some form of PND? I can completely understand finding the responsibility of dealing with a disabled child to be totally overwhelming to come to terms with. And to grieve for the lost ideals of what you dreamed about.

Someone on another thread tried to get an article written about her story to promote couples to choose the right clinic for their treatment carefully. She is a clever eloquent woman and they completely twisted the story to make her out to be some nutter who spent thousands she didn't have on treatment abroad "just" because she felt she "had" to have children.

So don't believe everything you read.


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## Miranda7

But... the actual quotes weren't made up.

I know only too well how a story can be twisted, but her quotes are pretty damning - any journalist worth their salt would have plucked them out and made that the story.

The stats for Down's, as far as I know, go up steeply after 40, and she was 39. 

And again, as far as I'm aware there's no higher incidence of Down's through IVF itself - it's just that more women conceive through IVF over 40.

Hopefully this woman will get over herself in time that her daughter won't know she was any less cherished than her son.

Horrible.


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## Mish3434

I'm sorry but having read the whole story, I think the Mum is just being totally honest to how she felt when the babies were born.  They were born premmies so she had all the extra stress that would bring, then she suspected her daughter had downs, and was proven correct. I think its a h*ll of a lot to deal with for anyone and in all honesty I don't know how I would have felt in her position.  I don't believe she actually wishes she never had IVF, she just wished things had turned out different.  I'm not going to say anything bad or condemn the poor women, it must of been a horrible time for her, and I'm sure her initial feelings where totally normal for her in that situation.  She now seems to have totally bonded with her gorgeous little girl and accepts things as they are. 

I don't think she thinks it was the IVF that caused the Downs neither, I think that has been twisted.

Merely expressing how she felt at a certain time does not make her a bad person or Mother IMHO.

The headline itself is what shocks me, but good old Daily Wail doing its usual there.  They have sensationalised the odd comment and come up with their usual IVF hate campaign.

Shelley


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## nicnacnoo

Just read it.  While I'd like to think this woman has been misquoted it does not read as such.  I feel such anger and sadness!  As someone who has worked for years with people with downs, among many other disabilities/conditions, I am alarmed at her ignorance and low expectations for her daughter!  Gladly, things have changed dramatically for the better for people with special needs.  Its like she has been written off already. 

I sit here wondering/doubting if I will ever be a mummy, I think I should stop typing, as I dont think I can find anything nice to say about her and her article.

Beautiful beautiful children, BOTH of them xxx


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## Miranda7

Have we really reached a stage where it is acceptable to put all your feelings up for the delectation of the public?

Sure, she has had a tought time with premature babies and having one with a disability must have been a shock. But revealing the darker side of her feelings to a national paper is inexcusable I think.

We all have plenty of darker feelings about other people, but we mainly choose not to reveal them and don't go around hurting people just so we can vent.

I don't condemn her feelings - I haven't been in her shoes - I condemn the way she's publicly condemned both her daughter and IVF.


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## kittenorcub

I read the article and although it could be that the woman was misquoted, I doubt it. I think the title of the article is crass and does not give the respect to this subject - I agree with you Mish3434 on that.

I do not agree with airing views that are hurtful, but I would like to see a reasoned debate about the subject of parenting a special needs child, and the fact that alongside the joys there are also emotional and other challanges.

I think that this debate so far has highlighted the fact that parents of children with special needs are often made to feel "guilty" when they cannot cope with what they see as seemingly insurmountable challenges. Often the challenges are not insurmountable, but they can feel that way sometimes.

Why is it wrong for her to admit that she would have preferred it if her child did not have those special needs? That does not diminish her love for her daughter or somehow make her daughter "lesser". I did not read the article that way at all.

The parent's have much to cope with over and above just the enormity of dealing with a new baby (in this case two new babies!!) and they have to think about many issues that parents of "non special needs" children take for granted. A child with Downs Syndrome, for example, can have "low" muscle tone, and that could make even the simplest tasks of changing them, feeding them, carrying them, more difficult than a child who does not have DS. Also, there are other associated issues that a parent of a child with DS has to deal with that people are just not aware of e.g. the sometimes slow progress of speech, and the frustrations that could bring, the sometimes lack of educational resources to help the progress of the child's learning, the sometimes lack of contact with parents of children with the same special needs.

Nicnacnoo, I don't think she was "writing off" her daughter, just worrying - maybe thinking too far ahead, but from the article it would seem that maybe in her life she has always had control and maybe now feels she is not in "control" - what new parent is?

I do not damn this woman for being honest about her disjointed feelings. So far, many have said, "her babies are gorgeous" - from what I read the woman is not saying they are not - she is merely expressing her feelings about having a child, with special needs, and how that is different to her "expectations".

Every parent (or parent-to-be) has dreams about their child, their future, those children's opportunities etc. When you have a child with any special needs, you sometimes have to adjust to your "new reality". She was being honest about her worries about that new reality - how she would cope - how the disparity between her son's development and her daughter's development worried her, not just now, but in the future. She spoke about her worries when her daughter is an adult but possibly still needing full time care by her and her partner, possibly for the rest of their lives. No doubt she is also worrying about what will happen to her daughter when she and her partner have died. Of course she is finding it overwhelming, scary, and all this compounded by her own thoughts about whether it was "her egg" that "caused" her daughter to have DS.

Sorry to be blunt, but I am sure if this happened to you, you would feel worried, confused etc.

There was a great article written called "Welcome to Holland" about how it feels to be confronted with the news that your child has special needs.

It's at http://www.our-kids.org/Archives/Holland.html.

I think it sums up where this woman is now - she has to get used to "Holland".

As a society, we should not condemn a person for expressing fears for how her daughter will meet the challenges that she will undoubtedly face throughout her life, and how those challenges will impact upon her WHOLE family. This should never be overlooked. As her daughter develops, maybe some of her fears will be allayed through experience, the passing of time the help she will hopefully receive, the joy at her daughter's and son's accomplishments etc.

This issue here is not about whether she loves her daughter - of course she does, but merely because her daughter has special needs, we should not rob this mother of the ability to express her feelings about whether she is the right person to help her daughter, whether she has the skills to be able to cope. If we allow parents of children without special needs to express feelings about whether they will cope, about their fears for their child's future etc, then this woman also has the right to do the same.By expressing her feelings, this woman may find it easier to find help.

Just my penneth's worth.


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## Mish3434

Miranda, 

I do personally think she has been a little naive in speaking to the Daily Wail in such a manner, and I hope she doesn't regret the interview at a later date, tbh this is entirely up to her though and a completely different subject.  

It would now appear that yes we have reached that stage where people put all their feelings up for the delectation of the public! The public will then in turn judge them, just as we are all doing on here, right or wrong I'm afraid thats the way things have gone in our society.

However the feelings she had are her feelings and right or wrong in other peoples eyes this was how she felt about her situation at a certain time.  She has to come to terms with the hand she has been dealt in the same way she had to deal with the infertility hand she was dealt earlier.  How we all deal with things is individual to each of us and neither right or wrong IMO.

You are also entitled to your opinion. I only wanted to express my opinion on the matter and look at in a different light.  Its so easy to read something and straight away only look at the negatives and then think we are offended by what we have just read.  I just re read it and saw it wasn't really what it first appeared to be, the title straight away misled me.


Nicnacnoo, 

Yes I did she think she was a little bit ignorant in her views of Special needs children, but she has only just been put in this situation   , I'm sure in time she will learn many wonderful things that her daughter will be capable of.  Until this avenue is opened up to people how would they know the truth, if they have never been around special needs children before.

Shelley


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## purple72

It's a shame this lady never read this blog, I've never read something so honest yet so beautiful!

http://www.kellehampton.com/2010_01_01_archive.html

I think the lady in the daily mail will regret being so 'honest and forthcoming in all her feelings' as the years go by.

Life with a disability can be difficult enough without having such a public aknowledgement of what a tough time your mum had accepting you

Just my opinion of course but I do think this was a big mistake that will not do anything to help her process the grief or emotions has gone through and is continuing to go through

Sx


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## nicnacnoo

Purple I'm with you on that.

Nobody is saying she is wrong to feel despair, disappointment, hurt, fear, guilt or wonder what if, but I think its maybe misguided to air all this in the national press, where you have no real say what angle they go with in final print.  

I have no doubt Emily will go on to amaze and thrill her with all she achieves in life, and I am sure she will get so so much out of that, and have immense pride.


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## Skybreeze

I stopped reading when she said, she considered adoption for Emily... Honestly how on earth can you say that??!!

Its sad she felt she wanted to tell the world that IVF ruined everything... When it was her eggs. IVF was not to blame. 

I hate that paper!

N xxxxxxxxx


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## daycj

I too have read this article and I felt sorry for her in a number of ways.  Personally to me it seems like she is in shock and I wonder whether IVF is really the issue here?  I'm certain she would feel the same way as she says she does if it had been a natural conception.  I am fortunate that I have not had the experience of disability (so to speak) but I have had the experience of IVF and we would all agree it is a very testing time both physically and emotionally.   I read some of the comments left on the article page online and it was interesting to see that a good few were from parents of children with disabilities praising her for being so "honest".


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## Guest

I think we may actually all be saying the same thing but in different ways - the lady has had a big shock and I feel very much for her and her partner.... but the article clearly suggests she thinks IVF is to blame. This, of course, is not the case (as far as science tells us) as children with DS can be born to anyone at any time (I know of a 26 year old who had a DS baby boy with reasonable nuchal results). I feel immensely for her as of course by choice this would not be "the dream ending" to her pregnancy - for her or her daughter but it is terribly hard to read of someone considering "giving up" their daughter but not their son, just because she was born with disabilities that her son was not born with.

I only hope it is a typical twisted DM story...it certainly fits their bill of never printing anything really positive about assisted conception - such a shame but there you go 

xxx


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## Charlies-Mum

As a mum of a child who was diagnosed in Utero as "different" I can understand some of the comments this lady has made. 'Why me'? 'my that sperm and egg'?
I don't think IVF is the issue, but more the fact that one of her babies has a condition which none of us would wish on our child. When your child is diagnosed with an incurable condition (or disability) you have to greive for the loss of your "dream child". That doesn't mean you love your own child any less, but it takes time and a lot of emotional heartache to get your head straight about what you have been presented with.

I'm a great believer in don't judge someone until you have walked in their shoes.....


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## daycj

CharliesMum.  Couldn't have said it better.  I think as you say it takes someone who has walked in those shoes to know how it feels.  Often when we discuss IF on this site we comment on the ignorance of people who do not have IF issues so maybe this is a similar case.  As you say........ unless you walk in those shoes you can only but summise on your reaction.


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## zoooooommmmm

well must admit I can totally understand her point of view and its helped me decide that IVF is a waste of my time


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## Guest

Isabella - IVF has not caused this situation - it could happen to anyone...pls don't make potentially life changing decisons based on this story  

Well said the other two...we do not know what it is like; you are absolutely right - but I'm not sure airing such strong thoughts re giving away a child in the national press is what I'd do - but each to their own  ...I wish them all well but I do wish IVF was not portrayed as "causing" this situation     (that is the "story" afterall.....)

xxx


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## zoooooommmmm

Yeah do have enough of a brain to know IVF didn't cause this thanks think her point was that naturally she wouldn't have conceived so maybe would have been best if she didn't go through all of this. I can see her point of view on it.


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## clairelh1

Am I reading a different story because, despite it being in the Daily Hate and knowing it's stance on IVF, I don't fully read it in the same way? The headline states, is it MY fault - not, is it IVF's fault..? I think what the woman is possibly trying to say is that she wishes perhaps that she didn't go on with her quest to have children. IVF enabled her to have the children, but I certainly don't read it that she blames IVF for her 'predicament' more she blames herself for going along with her choice to go through the IVF to have her children rather than living child free, and in doing so bringing into the world a child who may have many struggles ahead.

As a mother of any child you will always feel guilt for anything your child may come across which makes their life less than perfect - no matter how trivial. And when it comes down to any physical or mental 'imperfection' you do wonder - 'is it something I did?' To me, this is a mother who is blaming herself for her daughter being born with Downs, for not being 'perfect' in society's eyes and of the possible consequences this will bring to everyone. I don't see a mother who doesn't love her daughter, just an honest one who admits to finding life as a mum not quite the bed of roses she envisaged and to things some people would rather we didn't admit to. She's probably very daunted about what the future brings and more than anything probably needs a good support network around her to realise that there is light at the end of the tunnel and she cannot spend the rest of her life blaming herself.

I agree, this would have read a lot better without IVF being mentioned in the tagline, but we are dealing with this awful rag and given the amount of threads on here dedicated to articles appearing in this paper, are we really surprised? In all accounts, blame the paper for how it reads, not the woman.


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## zoooooommmmm

yes Clare that's how I read it too. Essentially that she feels she would never have had a child naturally but by choosing to go through IVF she has ended up in the situation she is. She doesn't blame IVF but herself.  As I said I see her point, at 38 I know my egg quality is probably poor too so could end up in the same situation.


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## Guest

In that case Isabella, would you stop trying naturally altogether or only ever use v strong protection? There is just the same chance if falling naturally. Plenty of women over 38 have healthy, normal babies through IVF. If you were that worried you could also have CGH/PGD? Stories like this should not scare women off from having assisted conception.....to use your phrase anyone "with enough of a brain" knows DS is more likely with increasing age - regardless of how we make the child...

xxx


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## zoooooommmmm

Yes I did know that, but thanks so much for the info. I'm not capable of conceiving a child naturally , no amount of trying for 17 years has proven that and even if I did by some miracle conceive, the fibroids would kill the baby off anyway.


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## Guest

I thought that too Isabella until November - then out of the blue it did happen for me......So I guess we are either "trying" (by not using contraception) or we aren't, IYSWIM. From what I know, fibroids can be removed can't they and I'm sure they don't kill off the baby; they may just affect implantation to start with? Good luck anyway.

xxx


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## BABY2

I have read and re-read the story; some of the comments on here are true-it is difficult to manage a newborn at first with all the emotions and hormones we have to deal with too as well as this little being that totally depends on us, but ! and this is just how I feel ; when I embarked on the IF journey, it was because I wanted a baby with my husband, I wanted this so so badly that I did some crazy stuff, moon spells/rubbing on statues etc etc...with each of my BFP, I was aware of the possibilities of disabilities, especially with all the "research" they have supposedly done on ICSI babies etc...but I knew I wanted a baby with DH no matter what , whether she was "perfect" or not, having said that of course I can only IMAGINE the emotions and thoughts a parent goes through when told their baby has any type of disability, but MY desire for a baby was so strong that I did not for one second think I would not be able to "cope" with a disability, ... I am going to quote some of the comments this mother has made that I personally had a problem with; OK, DAILY GRIME may have exaggerated it and I truly hope so..

I have copied and pasted, so they are not in my words..

"She admits she wanted a perfect motherhood, with *one healthy child to complement her well-ordered life" *

'I thought: "She's not going to get married. She's not going to have children. She's not going to go to university. *She's not going to be a beautiful little girl." *

'I was being told that the little girl I'd been visiting every day might never leave home at all. *I might have her with me for the rest of my life. *

"Andy has always reassured me that we will always love Emily."

Would she have felt this strongly and would she be this confused about her love for her daughter if she had conceived naturally and still had a baby who had DS?
One of my young mums (17 years old), had a baby with DS , however they had told her when she'd had her scans so it was not a surprise when she was born, there were lots of difficulties at first, as due to muscle tone, she could not feed properly, but she proved herself to be one of THE best teenage mums I have ever worked with, it may have helped that she was a very positive young woman, and could not see why her beautiful daughter could not achieve whatever she set her heart to do...

I think it's fine for all of us to have different opinions, after all, this is why we have this thread 

Good luck to the family


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## loobylou713

They were the quotes that raged me Cynthia, how can she say her daughter is never going to be beautiful, you have a child for life not just kick them out when they get to a certain age.

I am sorry but if i was the reporter i would not be able to hold my tongue back, i have left a comment on the site also. I work with some fantastic disabled children and quite a few of them have down's but I will tell you this I would never ever think that of my child if I was fortunate to have a baby like hers. Let someone who really wants her have the joy to look and love her.

I say give her up for adoption at least it will never be thrown in her face that she isn't perfect.


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## Essex Girl

At last the small person with Downs Syndrome is asleep and I can add my 2p-worth...

I have read the article and comments on this thread two or three times now.  After being outraged by the headline making a totally wrong link between Downs and IVF, my first reaction was that I was quite annoyed by the mother.  The whole article seemed to be focussed on how she wanted everything to be perfect, and they were not because she had had a baby with Downs.  But maybe that's just the journalistic spin on her story.

But thinking back, I went through a lot of what she describes when my DD was born.  I suspect that most of us who are fortunate enough to get pregnant have hopes and dreams for our child, and a vision of our family life to come.  Finding out that your child has a disability means that those visions may no longer be possible, and we have to adjust our view of things.  That is what the 'Welcome to Holland' piece says so eloquently.  It is not unusual for parents in that situation to feel like rejecting the child at times, and you then add feelings of guilt about your reaction to everything else.  I remember having a 'dark night of the soul' a couple of days after Lizzie was born, when I thought about ringing up the social services and asking them to find a good home for her, but I knew I couldn't do it.

I have discussed this with parents on the special needs board from time to time.  I think it is part of the adjustment process to feel like this at times, and that we should not beat ourselves up about it.  You just have to do whatever makes you feel more positive about your child - in my case, taking her shopping and seeing the old ladies smile at her - and trust that it will pass.  It does get better with time, but even now I can still have wobbly moments.

The screen is jumping again, so I'm going to post this and carry on with a new post - stay tuned!


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## Essex Girl

...continued.

I agree that some of the comments ascribed to this mum do not say very positive things about Downs.  It may be that she is saying 'That is what I thought and felt then', but it is a pity that there is not a more positive account somewhere else to give a more balanced picture.  However, that is one of the dilemmas I am conscious of: due to public ignorance/prejudice etc, I think a lot of SN parents feel we want to present as positive a picture as possible to the world, and generally I am quite keen on educating the general public about Downs.  But at the same time, while I do feel positive about it most of the time, that is not the whole story, and if we cannot be honest about some of the negative feelings we may have from time to time, that is not giving a true picture.  I suspect that is what the mother in the article was trying to say.  It would be interesting to know what she thinks and feels in two years' time.

Time is generally a great help.  At the beginning, your baby is a blank slate, and all you have to go on are books etc, which tend to concentrate on the problems.  You have no idea which of those problems, if any, your child is going to have, and how severely, so you tend to fear the worst.  With time, your child's personality begins to emerge, they start doing things, and you realise that they haven't got all the problems in the books, and the future looks better.  One of the nice things to happen on the SN board is when children defy the doctors' worst predictions - 'They said he may never walk, and he has taken 2 steps today!'

Sorry if I have gone on a bit, but as you can imagine, it is a subject close to my heart.  If anyone knows Ms Prescott, do point her in my direction if she would like a chat!

Thanks for reading
Ruth  (EG) x

PS Look at my pc and tell me that children with Downs can't be beautiful!


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## Charlies-Mum

Ruth 

You've put what I was trying to say much more eloquently 
You have the most beautiful little girl - no one can disagree with that!


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## kittenorcub

Essex Girl said:


> But thinking back, I went through a lot of what she describes when my DD was born. I suspect that most of us who are fortunate enough to get pregnant have hopes and dreams for our child, and a vision of our family life to come. Finding out that your child has a disability means that those visions may no longer be possible, and we have to adjust our view of things. That is what the 'Welcome to Holland' piece says so eloquently.


Essex Girl - thank you so much for taking the time to write - I wrote a post (#9) and mentioned "Welcome to Holland" and no one commented upon what I had said at all! Was wondering if I was alone in putting forward that view? Then along you come, with the personal experience and I think that everyone should read what you say and take stock of their condemnatory posts.



Essex Girl said:


> ...continued.
> 
> I agree that some of the comments ascribed to this mum do not say very positive things about Downs. It may be that she is saying 'That is what I thought and felt then', but it is a pity that there is not a more positive account somewhere else to give a more balanced picture. However, that is one of the dilemmas I am conscious of: due to public ignorance/prejudice etc, I think a lot of SN parents feel we want to present as positive a picture as possible to the world, and generally I am quite keen on educating the general public about Downs. But at the same time, while I do feel positive about it most of the time, that is not the whole story, and if we cannot be honest about some of the negative feelings we may have from time to time, that is not giving a true picture. I suspect that is what the mother in the article was trying to say. It would be interesting to know what she thinks and feels in two years' time.


Thank goodness someone who actually *knows* what the issues are has said this (not just professional carers, but a parent) I was trying to make those points, but you put it so wonderfully, eloquently and with such warmth. Parents of SN children should not be heaped with more pressure feeling they cannot be honest about some of the negative feelings - you are a parent - there are times when it is not all "moonlight and roses", you will feel frustrated etc etc.... just because your child has SN, does not change the fact that being a parent is hard, being a parent of a child with SN is hard and has additional challenges as well as joys (I loved your comment about proving the docs wrong!)



kittenorcub said:


> I would like to see a reasoned debate about the subject of parenting a special needs child, and the fact that alongside the joys there are also emotional and other challenges.
> 
> I think that this debate so far has highlighted the fact that parents of children with special needs are often made to feel "guilty" when they cannot cope with what they see as seemingly insurmountable challenges. Often the challenges are not insurmountable, but they can feel that way sometimes.
> 
> The parent's have much to cope with over and above just the enormity of dealing with a new baby (in this case two new babies!!) and they have to think about many issues that parents of "non special needs" children take for granted. A child with Downs Syndrome, for example, can have "low" muscle tone, and that could make even the simplest tasks of changing them, feeding them, carrying them, more difficult than a child who does not have DS. Also, there are other associated issues that a parent of a child with DS has to deal with that people are just not aware of e.g. the sometimes slow progress of speech, and the frustrations that could bring, the sometimes lack of educational resources to help the progress of the child's learning, the sometimes lack of contact with parents of children with the same special needs.
> 
> Every parent (or parent-to-be) has dreams about their child, their future, those children's opportunities etc. When you have a child with any special needs, you sometimes have to adjust to your "new reality". She was being honest about her worries about that new reality - how she would cope - how the disparity between her son's development and her daughter's development worried her, not just now, but in the future. She spoke about her worries when her daughter is an adult but possibly still needing full time care by her and her partner, possibly for the rest of their lives. No doubt she is also worrying about what will happen to her daughter when she and her partner have died. Of course she is finding it overwhelming, scary, and all this compounded by her own thoughts about whether it was "her egg" that "caused" her daughter to have DS.
> 
> Sorry to be blunt, but I am sure if this happened to you, you would feel worried, confused etc.
> 
> There was a great article written called "Welcome to Holland" about how it feels to be confronted with the news that your child has special needs.
> 
> It's at http://www.our-kids.org/Archives/Holland.html.
> 
> I think it sums up where this woman is now - she has to get used to "Holland".
> 
> As a society, we should not condemn a person for expressing fears for how her daughter will meet the challenges that she will undoubtedly face throughout her life, and how those challenges will impact upon her WHOLE family. This should never be overlooked. As her daughter develops, maybe some of her fears will be allayed through experience, the passing of time the help she will hopefully receive, the joy at her daughter's and son's accomplishments etc.
> 
> This issue here is not about whether she loves her daughter - of course she does, but merely because her daughter has special needs, we should not rob this mother of the ability to express her feelings about whether she is the right person to help her daughter, whether she has the skills to be able to cope. If we allow parents of children without special needs to express feelings about whether they will cope, about their fears for their child's future etc, then this woman also has the right to do the same.By expressing her feelings, this woman may find it easier to find help.


Sorry to go on...but I just wanted to thank you Ruth for your wonderful post - your little girl is certainly very lucky to have a Mum like you and I am sure you feel the same about her! And you are right - she is beautiful!


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## Essex Girl

Thanks, Deb and Kittenorcub, for your kind words.  
Ruth x


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## Guest

Essex girl - your post was both heartwarming and of course insightful to those of us not in your situation....thank you. As a lady of over 40 I have often thought of how I'd deal with a SN child...you say a lot of what I guess I would expect to feel but of course it is very different when it is real. Your daughter is beautiful and sounds like she has a great mummy! I'm glad you stuck to working through your thoughts in your own way though and did not splash them all over the papers - my only complaint really about this article (that and "inferring" IVF was to blame).

A happy life to you and DD 

xxx


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## Miranda7

Essexgirl - I was hoping you'd come along and there you are!

Elizabeth IS beautiful - hopefully this mum can now see that Emily is too.

Thanks for your post - really enlightening.


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## purple72

EG, Your daughter is just adorable!!! Of that there is no doubt! Thank you for your contributions xxxx


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## pinkbabe

If that lady has been quoted correctly, she should be utterly ashamed of herself! To say that her daughter isnt beautiful, and will not have a life, and oh poor Emily is going to upset HER perfect little life now   That little girl looks absolutely adorable, no different to any other precious child, and she needs to get a grip on reality and realise just what she has got!!! Gosh, just the thought of how much joy both those children would bring to me, leaves me utterly speechless! 

Sorry for the rant but needed to get that out!  

xx


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## Colly

She is still coming to terms with having a child with special needs and so I think some people should be more understanding. The Daily Mail is not the best place to be airing your feelings but you are still entitled to have them. 
Collyx


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## pinkbabe

It also has to be understood that everyones circumstances are different Colly, and we have all arrived at our destinations to date, through different journeys, good and bad, and regrettably through pain and anguish, but as you have already stated, we are all entitled to air our feelings on what ever subject we see fit. Yes i do agree maybe not the best place to be airing thoughts and feelings through the media, but even so, and as this site is mainly for people who are trying their hardest to become parents, (alot of us for the first time)  it is quite shocking to have to read this, however sensitive and caring one may be.

Karen x


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## Colly

I can see reading it would be upsetting but having been through infertility and now have a child with special needs I can say that for me anyway, they both involved loss of the dreams of the life I imagined I would have. I don't think her thoughts are particularly unusual but they are not usually aired for public consumption before a person has time to come to terms and adjust.
Collyx


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## pinkbabe

Im sorry you have had loss of dreams of the life you imagined, but just to have a child must be the most wonderful feeling in the world, but with not knowing anything about that, i wouldn know! And just to get back to the point, no-one including the lady in the article is being condemmed here for coming to terms with her child, but if you read the article, she has clearly stated that: 1. She's not got the healthy child she wanted for her well ordered life 2. She's not going to be a beautiful girl 3. She might have her with her for the rest of her life, and oh of course lets not forget number 4. considered putting up for adoption! Thats what i have i problem with!! 

Karen x


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## isobel snow drop

Thank goodness it sounds like this little girl has a wonderful father who will help her fulfill all her hopes and dreams in the future.


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## pinkbabe

Hi Isobel, yes good point, i agree with that, her father does appear to be very loving and dedicated, and im sure he will help with her to have an enriched life.

Karen x


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## Mish3434

I honestly think they where the initial reaction feelings, that she felt when she was first told of her daughters condition, not necessarily a true respresentation to how she is feeling now she is coming to terms with everything and understanding more about what the future holds or may hold.  Whether or not she should of aired them so publicly is another matter, however that is her choice.

Thanks to Ruth and Colly for sharing their experiences   and yes Ruth your daughter is totally beautiful   I always love seeing your updated Avatars, Elizabeth is a doll xx

I was judged just for having IVF by some people who had never experienced the pain that IF brings.  So I won't judge this lady neither as I have not been in her shoes.

Shelley x


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## pinkbabe

The whole article could be argued either way, and discussed until the end of time, however none of us will ever know what the actual truth was behind it all anyway, we can only go by what we have to read.

Karen x


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## Charlies-Mum

As someone who was quoted as saying "I killed my child" I know how the press can twist things. Be careful before you judge someone based on an article in the tabloid press......


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## pinkbabe

As already said, one can only comment on what has been documented, not on what we would like to think could have been stated.

Karen x


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## Miranda7

Really, Charliesmum? You were actually directly quoted as saying that?

If that's the case you could sue big time.

I am a regional journalist, so am quite adept, really, when it comes to sifting out what was actually said. But the bits in the quote marks - she said them. Seriously, journos may skew things but they don't make up quotes.

xxxxxxxxxxx


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

surely everyone dreams of having the 'perfect' child,........... don't they??  

Like colly said she is stilll trying to get used to having a child with special neesds, and selling her story to a newspaper was maybe a way to vent how she is actually feeling right now. 

Workin with people with special needs, i have seen how it affects families for years and years and it doesn't stop at the parents either, siblings feel guilty for thinking 'why not me but them' parents die and the responsibilty then lies on the siblings to become a 'parent' 

The lady has a long way to go before she fully accepts (if she ever does) she has a child with special needs and until you are in her shoes you have no idea how it feels. 

I have thought at times how i woiuld be if out baby had special needs and it terrifies me. I want the perfect life of child grows up, feathers the nest and gives us grandchildren. But who knows what the future will bring


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## pinkbabe

I have also grown up along side disabilities, so i also know how it 'feels' in many diferent ways, so before you assume, what shoes we have all walked in....think again! And personally any child that i hope to be lucky enough to have, i will be over the moon regardless of any disability.


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## Cazne

I think she has been brave and honest.    
Cx


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## purple72

I don't think anybody is challenging this ladies right to feel these feelings more the vehicle she has chosen to express them. One that is of public record and can be referred to not only by all of us but by the daughter, the siblings and anyone who comes into contact with the family in the future.

I've not trodden the same path as this lady but I've supported many parents through these feelings and thankfully most of them out the other side. I think the majority of them would be devestated if their initial feelings/thoughts/fears were there as a matter of record for the world to see.

Sx


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## Guest

Perfectly put Purps


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## pinkbabe

Thanks Purple, explained well xx


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## Essex Girl

A few days ago I read through some of the comments left on the DM's own site.  There was one from the mum herself saying that at the time she didn't know much about Downs and she doesn't feel the same way now and she loves her daughter.  She may have been trying to say that in the process of trying to get our heads round it, we go up and down and this is what we can feel like at times.    I wonder what she feels about the way her comments were reported....

Pinkbabe - I do understand where you are coming from.  I only got lucky on our last TX before giving up, and had several failed TX before then, and found it very hard to deal with mothers complaining about their children.  The worst was a woman who keeps appearing on TV when they discuss home births, complaining because she had to have her baby in hospital with lots of 'scary machinery'.  I have nearly thrown things a few times at the TV when she was on.  

I am interested that quite a lot of comments on this thread come from people who have experience of disability, either in their family or through their work, so you would have some idea of what may be involved.  I suspect the mum in the DM article, like me, knew next to nothing about Downs before her baby arrived.  There is a lot of negativity out there about the condition, probably not helped by the testing process in pregnancy (but that's another debate for a different thread) so the more that people with Down Syndrome can be seen out and about as part of the community, doing everyday things, the better for everyone.  

Having said that, yesterday was World Down Syndrome Awareness day and I completely forgot to do anything about it!

EG x


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## pinkbabe

Thanks EG for your understanding and thoughts   im so pleased that you didnt have to give up on your dream    Your daugther looks truely beautiful! You must be soo proud! 

Thats exactly the sort of thing i mean, with people not realising just what they have got, with the lady and her machinery.

Take care

Karen xx


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## Essex Girl

Oh, Karen, I've just read through your treatment diary and seen all that you have been through to get this far.  I really hope it all works out for you, whether with your own eggs or DE.  You don't know the half of what goes on in some people's lives, do you?

All the best
Ruth (EG) x


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## pinkbabe

Awww thanks Ruth, best wishes to you and your lovely family   

Take care

Karen xx


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## IGWIN79

awe this made me cry , they are two beauiful children , which she is blessed to have 
my step brother has downs and is living on his own and has a girlfriend so how can she sit there and say her daughter has no futher 
there is alot of parents out there that would love a child with downs or not and could give her a good chance and believe in her 
Yes its hard and there is help out there , but is that not what we do for our children , fight tooth and nail for them no matter what  i know i would 
she needs to stop thinking about what might have been ,and look at bringing her children up , to love them and believe in them and be there for them , thats all that matters 
I wish her all the best and hope she makes the most of them two beautiful children


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## pinkbabe

How lovely sweetchilli, for your step brother   

Yes she has 2 beautiful children that would just leave you on  

xx


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## Jumanji

The Daily Mail must have been gutted that it was this woman's DH who had a low sperm count rather than the problem being with her - no chance to chastise her and the rest of the female population for "leaving it too late".  But at least they could manipulate the headline so as to blame IVF, even if it would have had nothing to do with her daughter's condition.

I feel for this woman but really feel I have no idea what she actually said!  Baring your soul to the Daily Mail about something like this is hardly going to result in a balanced article.


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