# Peoples Perceptions of Childlessness!!



## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Hi Girls

I just wanted to write this down, as it was something that was said this morning by a work colleague...I am sure like you on and off over the years, comments do get made by different people that either hurt or shock in regards to childlessness:
"At least you have time to yourself?
You do not have to get up in the middle of the night!
You can go on holiday when you feel like it??!!
You can go out when you like,,,,you life is not tied to schedules"
and much more:

What stopped me in my tracks this morning was this comment...as i work in a hospital we face many different situations. The subject arose about people who do not have children and what happens if one of them dies....sorry if its a little morbid, but just please read on...
Anway the comment was 'i know you do not have children'...'but i have to say this, that people who do not have children live selfish lives and only have themselves to consider ...and so therefore if one of them pops their socks, they only have basically each other to worry about?"
Well i nearly bit back, but i thought whats the point?. But what are you trying to say? does that mean my life is not worth so much, if i haven't got any children? and because i have led a selfish life (as she put it) then mine is not so important as the ones who have been mothers?
This did not upset, but made me more angry....and as my hubby and friend said there are so many ignorant people out there, why waste your breath
I think these comments were raised in Childfree and loving it....?
The issues i would love to have raised, is that we all have choices or NOT A CHOICE for alot of us..and its not selfish, we tend to lead a more self centered life because in this situation we haven't got a choice...we do not hide behind anything and the relationship we have is often more special..
and i can think of alot more selfish people in this world that do have children!!!
I think thank goodness i can digest comments like this and look at them for what they are and its plain ignorance,,,....i would love to give this person a window into our lives over the last how many years!!!

love astridxxx


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## Bangle21 (Dec 17, 2004)

Astrid my friend,

I'm sorry you had to listen to this bulls**t.  

Well done you for having the 1.  Patience,  2.  good grace not to let it bother you and 3.  to treat this with the contempt it deserves.

It's funny you should bring this up today.  Only last night, I received an e-mail from a college "friend" who said, "Being a mother is like being an ER doctor, you are on call 24/7 and never get a day off or a long lie ....." !!!!!  Like your tactless colleage, this girl also knows about my situation!!

You are right about this subject being highlighted in "the book".  It made me realise that we are anything BUT selfish.  As the book highlights, those without children tend to be the ones "giving something back" to the community.  Astrid, I would just like to ask this woman how many fundraising events/charity treks to vietnam she has done/is planning on doing?  And yet she has the addassity to assume YOU and people "like you" are selfish!!!  How dare she??!!  I am FUMING for you now doll!!!!

How people can say we are selfish is beyond me for the following reasons:

1.  People that "choose" to have children do so because they have a "want"/a "need" for themselves.  Not for the good of the world or the offspring that arises.
2.  People that "don't choose" to have children but have them anyway  -  surely it could be deemed "selfish" for bringing an unwanted/unplanned child into this world?
3.  Many childfree people choose NOT to have children because they feel this is not a safe/nice world to bring any more children into - certainly not a selfish attitude.
4.  To re-iterate again, often it is childless people that "give back" to the community, do things for others, are a stronger more reliable source of support to their friends/family, are more empathetic etc etc. (Astrid, like your neighbour you take shopping - how many neighbours does this "woman" help??)  Many of the ones with children, if you ask me, tend to be too wrapped up in their own little lives and families that they don't have either the time, or the inclination to think about anything else in life.

GOD I am so angry.

I can see where you're coming from that she doesn't deserve your attention/breath but I think at times like this, we all need to stick together to try to combat these pathetic, small-minded, SELFISH, ignorant attitudes!!  Would you find the strength to sit her down, tell her you were offended and show her the responses to this post?  Mmmm, maybe not.  I'm just so angry!!

Anyway doll, I hope my post has helped you a little, in that we understand where you're coming from and wherever we go in life, there will always be twats like this, mouthing off when God should never have given them the power of speech!!  

Oops - my has this provoked some strong emotions in the old Gill!!!

Take care doll, HUG to you, and I hope this next womans sh*t is a hedgehog!!

xxxxx  Gill xxxx


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## Dydie (Feb 11, 2005)

Astrid and Gill

What brilliant thoughtful posts gals  

I think I would have reacted in much the same way as you Astrid, these people are so ignorant and just don't deserve my breath.

The points raised about selfishness by Gill were spot on .... to add to that list I would point out that many of the people adopting and fostering have been through the turmoil of not being able to have children.

I certainly do not think my life is selfish ... far from it .... I can give you a perfect definition of what being selfish is though .... My SD (see diary)  

Dydie xxxxx


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Hi Gill and Dydie
Wow some interesting comments.....
I think you certainly hit the nail on the head Gill, about selfishness!!!
I think what i cannot get my head around is,.....if your partner is the only thing dear to you (other than your immediate family) wouldn't you atleast worry about how they would cope after you had gone...
If there is no family left and just you two, the guilt must be overwhelming and the pressure knowing that one of you is going to be alone...this must be so hard!!!
I think its interesting what people actually think, because as Gill stated we do not question why a person had children? its just apart of life and we understand that, so why do we have to listen to being told that as childess woman i am leading a selfish life...
Has anyone else come across comments??
regards astridxx


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## emcee (Apr 3, 2005)

Oh dear me

It sounds like another classic case of 'Smug Parent' there Astrid, the sort of person I go out of my way to avoid at all costs!

Before I continue I would like to make clear that I have many friends who are parents - but this particular type of Smug Parent that I have often happened across myself is in a breed all of their own!

I have lost count of the amount of times I have had comments like 'I must have no worries or cares because I don't have kids' or how unfulfilled my life must be because I am not a mother - and can I add it really bugs the sh*t out of me when I read things about celebs who say their lives suddenly have purpose now they have a child - argh! My life has plenty of purpose, I never required a child to be satisfied... and if women read these sorts of things, what sort of message is it getting across to the masses?!

It strikes me that your so called colleague is the selfish one if she cannot step outside of her own little Smug World box and be realistic and look at someone who is not in the same situation she is in. Who is to say she won't end up on her own one day and her kids have all flown from the nest and are in far flung places around the globe? No matter what our individual circumstances, no-one can predict what the future has panned out for us.

I would also like to agree with Gill that the people whom I know who do not have kids through no fault of their own, or who have had kids after the most hellish personal battles are the most loving, kind, caring, compassionate, giving and selfless people I have ever had the privilege to encounter in my life, and that my life has been greatly enriched by the friendships forged with them. Count yourselves in there amongst them ladies!

Finally, I want to finish with its taken me ages to write this because I kept cracking up with LOL thinking of Gills comment about this next womans sh*t being a hedgehog! LMAO!!!!!!   Maybe thats one come back comment you can keep to save for her next time eh, Astrid?! LOL!

Love to you, and sorry you have to be surrounded by such FOOLS at work!
Emcee x


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## pink panther (May 4, 2005)

I think that the truly selfish people ae those who have children without giving it the thought and consideration it deserves i.e those who should keep their legs crossed.
What's wrong with people? Comments like those given to Astrid and Gill aren't so much from selfish people, more from ignorant, thick and thoughtless people. You were right not to bite back-those like your work colleague aren't even worth farting for (oops, on nights and a little grouchy!)
lol pp xxx


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## flipper (Jul 7, 2004)

Hi there ladies,

By the time I'd got to the end of your post Astrid two words that have been used by others sprang to mind. Your colleague is both thick and ignorant, and I'll agree with pp by adding thoughtless.  

flipper


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## ruby k (Jun 2, 2004)

emcee said:


> I have lost count of the amount of times I have had comments like 'I must have no worries or cares because I don't have kids' or how unfulfilled my life must be because I am not a mother - and can I add it really bugs the sh*t out of me when I read things about celebs who say their lives suddenly have purpose now they have a child - argh! My life has plenty of purpose, I never required a child to be satisfied... and if women read these sorts of things, what sort of message is it getting across to the masses?!


Hope I have got this right - am trying to quote you emcee...

Here here!! It never ceases to amaze me how so many people claim their lives to be now 'complete' cos they have kids. And that is soooo 'pushed' by the media, it makes me SO mad!!!  Like that stupid ****** advert for a car or something which says, 'cos there's no greater adventure than having kids' - oh REALLY?? Also, when people say, 'as a mother...' and then go on about how they are so compassionate etc - like people with kids aren't? I remember one Richard and Judy show (i know, sorry..) - they were talking about some tragic story of a child/ren being hurt or whatever, and Judy said, 'and anyone who's a mother will really feel terrible about this' - ahem excuse me!! What about people who don't have kids but are still really upset and shocked whenever something bad happens to a child??

This whole issue of how the media measures success by whether you're married/have kids/ have a nice house/car/holiday etc really annoys me so much (can you tell?)!! Also - its like those people who say their wedding day was/is the best day of your life!! What a pressure!!! I mean my wedding was lovely - but I hope I'll have other 'great' days in my life - or was that it? Until I give birth? Oh yes, that might not happen...arrrgh!! Its so ignorant!!!!

Oh dear, went on a bit of a rant there... 

It just really gets to me and I can't BELIEVE that someone said those things to you Astrid and Gill, they really are so insensitive and thoughtless and actually yes, stupid.

OK rant over,
ahh 
ruby xxx

ps i agree I have friends who are parents and are not at all smug - I don't want to demonize everyone!!![br]: 20/08/06, 19:32oh yes, meant to say - what about people who never get married OR have kids - even though they really want to? Or people who choose not to marry their partner even tho they have a wonderful relationship? Or gay people? What about them? Don't they count ? I mean REALLY!

Sorry, thought my rant was over but its clearly not          [br]: 20/08/06, 19:36on reflection I think I must have a period of not watching TV and reading magazines


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Hi Ruby
Go for it girl!!!
Well you raised a great point about the wedding day i had to laugh  ...you are so right i hope that i have a few more good days in my life, besides that day!!!!
I have a comment that sometimes bugs me....because i work partime (my choice)...something that was said once that i haven't got children, so why do i need this amount of time off...
My reply is 'because i can' and i have worked since i was 16yrs of age...i am also having my maternity break thankyou very much...!!
Also i want to live those lost years dedicated to FF and this is my choice...less money but i am happier and so is my hubby!!
Why do i have to explain myself because i haven't got children!!!
Well i work part time because the truth is i have a busy social life and i am not going to break my back anymore..sounds very self centred but hey why not!!!
Love astridxx


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## perkyone (Dec 8, 2005)

Hi,

I agree with all the above!

I had a comment at work the other day too.  I had listened to a colleague going on and on and on about her children, divorce etc etc and she asked my opinion on something - didn't like my reply and said "you wouldn't understand you haven't got any children anyway"    This completely amazed me so much I had to leave my desk and have a good cry to myself.  My other colleagues in the room couldn't believe she would come out with such a comment and no-one knew what to say at the time.  I don't think she really realised what she said but it hurt me more than I thought and I haven't forgotten.

I'll be ready with a reply if this happens to me again!

regards
Perkyone


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## Dydie (Feb 11, 2005)

I had a terrible time during the last academic year .. as most of you know I am doing a law degree at Uni .... well last year (my first year of my degree) a friend of mine who I studied ILEX with decided at the last minute that she would also go to uni and do the degree .... I was dreading it as she had been a pain in the neck throughout my ILEX studies, anyway right from day one she hung off my coat tails and just as feared she began asking for help with assignments etc, I tried to keep this help to a minimum and tried to keep it as more of an advisory role but it just got worse and worse, she would come round my house the evening before an assignment was due in and cry and I would end up helping her, it got so bad that I had to go and talk about it with a tutor and I ended up with an official warning on my record for plagiarism and I had marks deducted from the particular assignment ... she got nothing  

One of her favourite sayings was "it's allright for you, you have not got kids so its easy for you to do the assignments"   

Ummmmm yeah right .... it's got nothing to do with the fact that she was just a lazy cow who never bothered to make any sacrifices in her life so that she had time to study and she left everything to the very last minute, knowing full well that she could lean on me.

Her kids are all old enough to look after themselves, but this "friend" never stopped going out almost everynight to play bingo or go to the pub, she never made any attempt to structure her life, whereas I was studying morning noon and night and my marriage nearly split up as a result.

I kept warning her that it was all very well me helping her with assignments but that my help would end up being a hindrance as she would not be able to pass her exams unless she actually studied .... her reply was that she knew everything and was good at exams but that she was just cr*p at the academic stuff  

Thankfully I won't have to put up with her next year ... suprise suprise she has failed 4 out of 6 exams and she still has 5 pieces of coursework outstanding (stuff that I would not help her with after I got the warning) 
The exam board has told her that she does not have sufficient credits to allow her to resit the exams, she then decided that she would retake the whole year, but the uni have asked her to provide mitigation evidence, because the board has advised that they do not believe that she has the commitment or the academic skills for her to be able to complete the degree....she is currently trying to get a letter from her GP, but I very much doubt that the uni will have her back   .

Dydie xxx


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## emcee (Apr 3, 2005)

OMG Dydie!  

I can't believe the cheek of the woman! How dare she do that to you! I sat open mouthed in astonishment and outrage reading what you had written, but admit to laughing heartily at the end. Serves her right - a bit of her own karma being played back on her don't you think?

Good for you for sticking at your studies, and for refusing to help her any more hon. Way to go!

Emcee x


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## NixNoo (Aug 19, 2005)

Dydie - I am shocked that someone can treat you this way!  What a complete cow!  I wish you loads of luck with your studies, hopefully this year you can concentrate on YOU.

All the best
Nix


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

hi dydie

I am also in shock.....well as Emcee says there is a bit of Karma going on here.....
What has the kids got to do with it, flipping cheek!!!
The way i look at it, i took up studying because it took my mind off things...at times i got so low, but i persevered with the studying, because i didn't want to go under...So the way i look at it, there is strength of character in you Dydie to juggle studying and getting on with things, even though you feel so low and feel like S**T.!!!
I would have given up alot of things if we had a family.....so its not our fault we are in the position to do as we please. But we cannot be put in this corner  and take all that crap because people think it is easier for us because we do not have children...Thats their own excuses...if you want to do it you will...as your uni clearly stated wheres the commitement from her
I do take off my hat to those that do study with children, but again they are about personal choices...
regards astridxx


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