# Am I using God and the Church?



## PinkPeacock

I grew up going to a C of E Church and would class myself as a Christian. I did a bit of church tourism as a student trying out Baptist Church and a free style church and didn't get on with either then kind of drifted off and didn't go to church for most of the last three or four years. I feel like a 'bad' Christian as I don't pray daily, or even for weeks on end and go for days without thinking about God. 

Then when we started going through IVF round one I had the extreme urge to go to church so found a really lovely C of E church which I really liked. I went all through IVF until it failed and had a bit of a shouting match with God. I felt he'd betrayed me, abondoned me or perhaps was never there in the first place.  I couldn't face going back to church the first few weeks, then the longer I left it the less I felt I could go back so I haven't been since the start of February.

Now we're on to IVF round two I have suddenly remembered God. I feel like a student who only rings home to ask for money! Once again I'm overwhelmed with teh feeling I need to pray and go back to church. Am I a bad person? if Igo back to church will everyone there, and God feel that I'm only there because I want something?

I sometimes feel so angry with God for putting us through this. I can only keep faith by thinking that God has given me this strong desire to be a mum only so that we have the strength to go through another round. Otherwise giving me the desire to have a child, and the gifts I have with children, would be cruel and I keep hearing that God is kind and loving and not cruel.

But if I go back, am I just using God to make myself feel better? I want to keep going to Church and come back to God but I feel something keeping me away.

Sorry this is long - its hard trying to explain these things succinctly.

Thanks,
Carys
xxx


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## PinkPeacock

I have to assume that the 25 people who have looked but not responded think yes, I am. 

I just don't know what to do. I just feel so guilty that when things are tough I want the church and God, but when things are ticking along I can cope without him. I fully intended to keep going to Church no matter what the result but it seemed too hard in the first weeks, and then just seemed harder to go back. I'm scared to go again.


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## arcadia

Hey

Don't assume people think things when they don't reply - maybe they just don't really know what to say. In any case, if you're using God then so am I! I think it's perfectly normal to go through stages where you are more aware of needing God and then praying more and making more of an effort to go to Mass. I'm an Irish Catholic and I think most of my family would be similar to you and I, as in going more frequently when going through difficult times and forgetting about it at other times. I'm always intending to go to Mass every week and then I don't end up going - today is a case in point, only just got up at 11am and Mass was at 11.30am so I'm too late for it. I'm sure God understands


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## PinkPeacock

Thanks for your reply. I was just worried people were looking and not replying bevcause they didn't know how to say 'yes,your'e a horrible human being and you're selfish' in a nice way.  

I wonder sometimes whether the to and froing is worse than just saying ok, that's it, I'm no longer a Christian. Thing is, I don't believe I'm not a Christian so that would be hard to do too. 

I think I'll go next week and see how I feel. Its a really nice Church and everyone there was so lovely to me last time. 
xxxx


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## Suzie

Hiya

Sorry only just seen this ; 
I am a baptist and regular church goer, but for last 5 weeks have not been to church because I am not feeling great at the mo  
The way I view my faith is that I trust in god and he will not care if I have not been to church for however long it turns out to be. I have my faith in him where ever I go and not just at church  
Isaiah 41:10
Fear not, for I am with you; be not dismayed, for I am your God; I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.

Psalm 32:8
I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; I will counsel you and watch over you.

God will know that at the moment you are needing support for your next round of tx and that he is there with you  
There is nothing to feel guilty about that you are only feeling the need to go to church at certain times in your life at the moment 

Wishing you lots of    for your cycle

Suzie x


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## pobby

Hi Pinkcarys

I think probably the vast majority of us up the ante with the praying during a cycle...(sorry if that is completely wrong)..o.k i'l put it another way....I up the ante! im a shocker actually as I never go to church except for weddings, funerals and christmas eve...Im not even sure, to be honest, if I even believe in God!    but I believe in SOMETHING..I just havent figured out quite what it is yet but I do believe that there is some force out there protecting me and  challenging me.. when I pray i normally pray to god, the universe and my loved ones that have passed away to "help me out here"  I dont particularly feel the need to go to church but i respect other people doing it..
I dont know if ive made you feel any better or not hun but all i will say is dont feel guilty! your a human..and Im sure that one of these days your prayers will be answered and if there is a god he doesnt want any bargaining from you..as long as you live your life well and treat others well which im sure you do then he will be there for you  

love and good luck
pobby xxx


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## Candee

Hi Hun
I don't think you are being selfish. They say that God doesn't give us more than we can cope with, but sometimes in life I think we all want
to scream that we have had more than enough! I think that God loves us unconditionally and when you need him, he will be there for you 
and when you turn away from him, he understands and waits for you to come back again.
Massive hugs for you hun     and I hope that things work out for you.
Candee
x


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## PinkPeacock

Thank you all so much. I'm really comforted by whatyou've said. I just feel so...human...at times. I feel turnign to God now he'll answer the phone saying "How much will it cost" like my Mum does when I haven't rang her for a while   I think the whole infertility thing makes you really analyse your thoughts and actions.

Thanks again,
Carys
xxx


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## malteeza

Dear Carys

I'm sorry you are having a tough time emotionally, and its only natural that your thoughts have turned to religion. You are not at all unusual - many, many people return or engage with religion because of a life event, or someone opens the door to it for them.  Don't feel bad about religious shopping-around or attending/not attending - all very normal too!  

I don't want to offend, but may I offer an alternative (my view)   on things?  I  don't believe God hands out any situation or life event to us.  I think life and all its complexities happen because that's life.  However, I do believe God is present for us throughout life.  As the saying goes 'bidden or not bidden, God is present.'

I have a history of 8 years of secondary infertility/male infertility problems and recurrent miscarriage and I spent many dark times shouting at God and hating the situation I found myself in.  I did not get the happy ending I wanted.  However, I have recently come to realise that God really was with me throughout the years whether I wanted/listened to him or not.

Lastly,....I don't know if you remember a TV programme called 'The Sanctuary' - where a group of men went to a monastery to 'find themselves'.  One of them had a really strong experience of God towards the end of his stay and he wondered what on earth he should do.  The book of the series said he was advised by the abbott to 'do nothing ' - no need to rush headlong into church-going or meditation or anything else. Just continue as you are Carys and your journey will naturally unfold as you make your choices.


I wish you every success

Malteeza xx


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## PinkPeacock

Thanks everyone. I've been back to Church for the last two weeks and been talking to the rev and various people there and been made very welcome. No one turned and shouted to get out for vbeing selfish, and no thunder bolt came down from Heaven.   It is exactly what I need - a welcoming, supportive community focused on God.


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## Murf

Hi Pinkcarys.  I was brought up Catholic and practised up until my early 20's.  I have always thought about god on and off and it is natural to pray when we are asking for something, although like you, I always used to say if you grant me this, I'll never ask for anything again (yeah right).  I have started to go back to church since my younger sister asked me to be godmother to my gorgeous little nephew and also if I'm honest to bring me some good luck as I am starting IVF this month.  I think you are being too tough on yourself, so what if god isn't on your mind 24/7, you seem to turn to your faith when you are feeling like you need support and that's good enough.  You are obviously a good person for the fact that you want a family and for me that's what God and the church will see.  Give yourself a break and good luck with your journey. xxx


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## scubababe

Hi pinkcarys,

I understand how you feel - there's a saying "there are no atheists in the trenches". I think all of us think more about God when we need something!

I do agree with Malteeza about the hand we're dealt - in Ecclesiastes 9:11 it speaks about unforeseen accidents and situations happening to anyone. God doesnt stop any of us having children specifically, but we all have different health problems and other things that happen by chance. One Scripture (I'm in work, cant remember where it is!) even says that the earth is actually ruled by Satan at the moment and to expect problems until God removes him and sorts it all out  ) Saying that, he is there to help us cope, and in the Bible he intervened in some cases (eg. Sarah, Abraham's wife). So please dont feel that any bad things are sent by God or that they're a punishment from him for something we've done.

My mum is a Christian and my dad is an agnostic, and once I became old enough to choose for myself I could see the real future in my mum's beliefs and followed that.....to lesser or more extents over the years. Please just enjoy going back to your faith and look to the future instead of feeling bad about the past - everyone starts somewhere! You may find it really sticks this time - maybe you just werent in the zone to accept it the last time round.

I've seen many people join my congregation over the years, and I'd say the majority are first attracted by something they want - happiness, peace, answers etc, but over time the relationship with God becomes real. Put it this way, most of us had some kind of outer physical attraction to our partners before we knew their personalities.....it doesnt make the whole relationship a sham because it started on the surface - its simply evolved into something deeper and become meaningful.

I would also say not to be afraid to read the Bible and pray on your own, and even check out other faiths. Faith can be emotional, but to deepen it needs a solid foundation of truth. And studying it and spending time on it also gives a good message to God that you're serious about him!

I hope another take on it has helped, and I hope you get everything you're wanting to find!  
Sandy
xxx


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## babycrazy

Hi pinkcarys.
God does not expect you to go to church, the words at the end of the film Stigmata are so true.
If you do a good deed for someone or to be kind to another human or animal,even nature, then this is what counts, that you have a good heart.
God? a higher force? knows your needs, but you do have to ask before his angels?spirit workers can intervine, so you are quite right to ask for help from a divine force when its needed.
Angel blessings
Karen BC


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## AmandaB1971

Hi

I've only just seen this and wanted to send you a .

I relate to how you have been feeling completely, my Dad is a Prison Chaplain (recently retired) and I had a conversation with him about this a while ago and asked him would God be annoyed with me for dipping in and out and for asking for stuff like IVF to work etc and my Dad said "God is a God of Provision, Acceptance and Tolerance, he is not a God of Punishment" and those words have stuck with me ever since!  God can see into your heart hun, whether you are in church or sat at home and he knows you better than you know yourself!

Axxxxxxxx


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## SisterC

Hi Pinkcarys

Your post really hit me. I sort of feel guilty about asking God for help at all. In fact I have more or less stopped praying because I don't want to be "using" Him. If that makes sense. I also believe that He doesn't need our prayers and the only person we benefit by prayers is ourself.

I was raised Roman Catholic and converted to Islam. I believe that there is only one God, and I believe that Allah has already planned out my life right up to the moment of death. In Ireland we say "what's for you won't go by you" and Islam requires this belief also called Qadr. We are told to ask and ask and ask. Like Jesus saying "ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find".

We have 2 types of prayer - the formal ritual cumpolsory prayer called salat and the informal "God help me with x,y, or z" kind of prayer called du'a. I can make du'a - talk to God - but I can't force myself to do my salat. I find it hard to talk to muslims about this because if you go 3 days without praying your salat you are no longer considered a muslim. 

I feel like I have the life line but no safety net, no fabric of comforting rituals from my past to help me, which I used to find in the Catholic religion until I started believing in one God and not a Trinity. Again I find it hard to convey to muslims who have been raised with Islam, and have it woven into their lives. I feel like I have a bald rug that doesn't have a design on it.

Sorry for rambling. I hope this helps. May God guide us all and ease our pain and the burden of infertility.

SisterC


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## PinkPeacock

Thank you so much to you all. You've all been so comforting and encouraging to me. Sister C, it is comforting to know I am not on my own with these thoughts. I think we sometimes view God the way we would a human friend. We wouldn't want our friends to think we only went to them when we needed them and ignored them at all other points. But we forget God is a loving and forgiving God and knows our hearts so when we turn to Him in times of trouble it helps us draw near him. 

Does that make sense?


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## Lucky1968

I try (though I frequently fail) not to pray for success with the IVF, I try to pray that I can accept whatever happens as Gods will and properly appreciate the amazing blessings that I have in my life.  Sometimes when I look at all that I do have 

All the food I can eat
A lovely home
That I have known love all my life
A supportive family
A wonderful partner
That I have never known violence or prejudice or cruelty
The good health of myself and the people I love
No pain
and above all the son I already have

it seems so unbelievabley greedy to want, let alone ask for, more.......and yet somehow I still do.


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## SisterC

Hi Pinkcarys

Glad to hear you got support from your community and are worshipping again. Things are better for me too. I am doing my salah prayers and fasting Ramadan and I am so happy and grateful that I am able to perform these acts of worship both from a physical and more particularly from a spiritual point of view. I hadn't lost my faith, I just went through a rough patch. I think you really got what I was saying and I completely understood you when you said we sometimes treat God as our friend and we wouldn't "use" our friends by asking for something we want and being selfish. In my religion the fast is for Allah alone, while the prayers benefit the person, but knowing that we are doing what God wants is very satisfying. I thank you for your posts and hope we can keep in touch, as I was very grateful for your understanding and for finding your original post in the first place. Alhamdililah. (All thanks and praise to Allah.)

SisterC


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## hbrodie

carys - I have only just seen this post. I don;t think you are being selfish hun. God is with us even when we aren't thinking about him. He is there supporting us and helping us even though we don't know it, and he knows what you have been through and what you are going through and will understand your turmoil and feelings   
No one will judge you, not at church or here on FFs    
I think you'll find that every one of us, even those who have never been to church, pray for a BFP. We all say 'please god, let me have....' People rarely pray to thank, they pray to ask for something. A person to get well, money troubles to end, poverty to end etc etc.....but those who have had a church upbringing tend to thank God in amongst their requests...I know I do. 
I went through a phase of being cross with God. I didn't go to church for about 6 years   but, like you I had an urge to return so I did. Then a few mth later we found we had IF problems and Church was such a big help.
I had a m/c in April and wrote a letter to the vicar explaining that I couldn't face church for a while, but that I was still praying, even though in the back of my mind I was wondering why god had given us a miracle BFP only to have taken it away....and to some extent I still wonder. 
He gave us Emily, another miracle BFP, and for that I pray every night to say thank you and to ask that he keep watch over her to keep her safe with us here on Earth. 
maybe he gave us Squiggle and then took him/her to show us that we can have natural BFPs   but I think this was a very cruel way of doping it and therefore I am still searching for the answer...why?
But back to you, sorry! No, you ar not a bad person..  
Look at xmas and see how many extra people go to church....midnight mass is always packed out, as is the christingle service but on christmas day there are dwindled numbers because people stay at home and don't go to church...and they won;t go again til the following christmas. Christenings are the sae, and weddings. People go to them but never in between do they set foot in a church.


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## babycrazy

HI all
This is poem i wrote after my 3rd MC to the powers that be and the answer i got back in a poem given to a friend who is a Spiritualist Medium.

Help me God I feel so alone
Please give me  words of comfort 
Through your Spiritual Phone,
Tell me why you do this to me
And please give me a glimpse of the future
That I can see
Pray for me and please don't abandon me.

Answer
Your babies in heaven will always be
A sadness that lies within
But your babies will always see
The love you had for one, two and three.

They draw close to thereearth family everyday
They hear you sincerely when you pray
They know you miss them very much
They know you hurt when you cannot touch.

But they want you to know, they love you so
Have learnt to as they spiritually grow
Not physsically as their earth mother is having to do.

And one day when earthly life is done,
You will be together in Gods love
Sharing experiences of Heaven and earth
Where you have suffered so much hurt

And the true understanding will come to light
And you will realise why you had to suffer this plight
To cope each day with the loss of one, twoand three.
Close your eyes and think, and yes you will see.

This was written 16 years ago, I had two more earth bound babies and another 2 MCs. 10yrs after my last MC  in Jan 2008 i had a DD at the age of 52 with the help of donor eggs.
I do see now why i had to go through what i did, it was to give many many women  lots of love and support going through the trauma of baby loss and IF, and to do this one needs to feel the pain of others.
These are a few words of another poem often read out in Spiritualist churches.

How can you ever hope to heal the wounds of others you do not feel.

Angel Blessings
XX
Karen BC


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## zoooooommmmm

Right well hunny, my view on this one, it really doesn't matter and my deeply Christian friends would say the same. i too have decided to return to church because frankly i need to be surrounded by more positive peple and have some support. my best friend always says you don't have to go to church every week or even every 10 years to have a belief or be a trule Christian person. So don't feel you're doing anything wrong, you aren't.

Stay safe, stay happy, and I hope things work out.

Isa x


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