# Need to get this off my chest.



## Bellzez (May 29, 2016)

Hi all, hope you're all well. I'm fairly new to ff although I have posted a few times now. I'm usually lurking on the POF and MFI boards. i have read through some of the 'coping with fertility' posts but today I really feel I need to use this board. 

I'm feeling quite irrational today so apologies if I upset or offend anyone. As you can see from my signature I was diagnosed with POF in 2015 after  my parter and I had been trying since the beginning of 2013. We also have a male factor which we've known about since last year. In recent weeks we've found out the MFI is pretty significant. We've been with create fertility on a three cycle natural modified package of embryo banking. I naively thought it would all be over and done with in three months. 8 months later we still haven't got to embryo transfer. There have been many ups and downs over the last couple of years and I have tried my very best to remain positive despite so many knock backs. I feel like I've lost all hope and all my strength. I can't see my family anymore because I can't stomach seeing my cousins who either have children, just had a baby or are pregnant. I can't see my friends for the same reason and today I found out a colleague is pregnant at 46! I felt sick to my stomach when I found out and I'm seriously considering quitting my job because I just can't bear to watch her get big and pregnant while I suffer more loss.

I have two frozen embryos and I try to remind myself that I must believe in them but as they are day 3 and we have just found out about my partners very poor sperm I don't feel confident they will take. I have my partner in a strict regime of vitamins and healthy living to try and improve our chances but to be honest i feel like I am draining the life out of our relationship as everything I talk about is fertility related. Right now my parter and I are not even speaking after a big fertility related argument. 

This evening I went for a drive after work just so I didn't need to go home and I sat there thinking about how I'm not really living, I'm just surviving. My mum asks me why I don't just give up but I feel like I'm trapped. I can't walk away but I'm not sure how much more I can take. 

I realise that distraction is a good strategy for overcoming this state of mind but I wondered whether anyone else has experienced such dark dark that no amount of distraction will help? My manager at work asked me whether I should take some time off but I wonder what good that will do as I'll have more time to think about fertility and my feelings of guilt, shame, anger and resentment. 

Sorry for the obscene negativity. I have none to talk to and nowhere to be completely honest about my feelings 
Xx


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## Talkingfrog (Apr 17, 2014)

Hello bellzez,  

Sorry to hear how you are feeling.  I know  how hard it can be sometimes.  At least it  sounds  like you have an understanding  boss, or at least one that is tryingto understand .  Do you  have  any  hobbies or  interests you could fo if you took some time off?

Have you considered talking to a counsellor  - most clinics  have  one to refer you to.  If not maybe you and your  partner  need to sit down  and  both talk about  how you feel - maybe  you  will be able to understand  how each other is thinking  better.  Maybe it would be easier for you both to right it down,  then read what each has put before  talking.  Would it help if you set aside times where you planned to do something you both enjoy , non fertility  related and agree not to mention  it.  

I did some acupuncture  with my last cycle  and felt more relaxed  in general and more positive  about  life in general.  Might be worth  thinking about. 

Take care.


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## queenie123 (Jul 18, 2016)

Hey Bellez, 
Don't give up you can do it!  

I'm not talking to my Brother partly coz I don't want to see his cute baby.  He's younger than me and got married 4 years after me!

My DH had a great protocol which included ejectulation EOD. DOxycycline for 40dyas, Proxceed for 3 months, 1000mg vit C and 400mf Vit E.  Plus No alchol (we have cases of becks blue). and only 1 cup of coffee a day. 
It has 10x his count and his morph has gone from 2% to 14%.  Fragmentation test showed he was still boarderline but I think those changes are amazing! 

Whats your AFC?  Whats your AMH/FSH?  - I'm 33 and they say I'm pre-menopausal as my day 11 Oestrogen was 600.  

I'm liking the clomid cycle at the moment but doesn't give me many eggs.  Considering the agonist/antagonist protocol the Lister use instead for next time. 

I know it's easier said than done but stress really makes a massive difference, it moves all the blood away from your ovaries - how rubbish is that!


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## Bahhumbug (Nov 30, 2014)

Hi bellzez

My heart went out to you reading your post. I know that dark place you are in right now when it seems there's no way out and life is futile - i was certainly there in the run up to the last 2 Christmasses.
So a huge hug for you and know that you are not alone.
In terms of strategies to get you through the day, like others i would recommend counselling - i might be wrong but i thought all clinics had a responsibility to provide one for you, and, as much as it really wasnt 'me', i found it very helpful in the event. 
Personally, i also found running helpful to clear my head.
And having a select few people go talk to, not necessarily in my close family. We had a lot of Church support but i won't go into that. 
Relationship-wise, it can feel like things are breaking. I wasted so many weekends in bed sleeping or crying and unable to face even going to the shops. Again, small goals helped me, plus spending time on longer projects indoors like cooking sessions on the Saturday evenings and playing cards/board games with my husband there by not talking about our empty house

Not sure if any of that is helpful but i felt for you so much
Lots of love xxx


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## magicpillow (Feb 8, 2015)

Hi lovely, just wanted to comment to just say I really feel for you and I've been exactly the same at times.  It's a very hard journey and sometimes the emotions just get too much.  I agree with the others that counselling could be really helpful.  My clinic included one session as part of the package and after that it was a whopping £80 per session so I'm now on a waiting list for nhs counselling!

Something else that has helped me is hypnotherapy.  I can really recommend The Fertile Mind with Russell Davis.  Google his website and you can find out more.  I've got the assisted conception tracks and he also did me a bespoke track which helps me so much.  It's helped me to see that I'll be ok, no matter what.  It's still a tough road at times though and I'm very emotional as we build up to our 3rd and final ivf!


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## Angedelight (Aug 17, 2012)

Hi Bellzez.

I've been in that dark place- this year after our our last failed treatment everything came crashing down. Before that after a failed cycle I'd usually be able to dust myself off and pick myself up and carry on. I had quite a traumatic last cycle and fell apart. It didn't work and we were told to use donor eggs. Another failed cycle and this news sent me over the edge.

I was overwhelmed with grief for what I might not have. Chuck in everyone else in the world getting pregnant including my best friend who went through treatment the same time as me. I was happy for them but felt like my biggest supporter who completely got it was no longer there. She then went on to do something that I found really insensitive to me and then I just withdrew from everyone. Social Situations filled me with dread and anxiety. I felt consumed by it all and an absolute wreck.

I had counselling with a fertility specialist- I've never been a fan of the counselling model previously but my opinion changed after sessions with her. It really helped. I'd definitely suggest talking to someone. I saw her for 6 months. I've just switched to seeing a hypnotherapist who does positive solution therapy and CBT alongside it as I felt I needed some structured help to get in the right frame of mind for our upcoming cycle. She makes me think about all the positive things I do and to focus on these no matter how small as like she says I'd lost sight of that. The gym and exercise has been a big help and I find baking really therapeutic as I concentrate fully on that and don't think of anything else. You have to give yourself time off from thinking about it all

I've definitely turned a corner recently and I don't want to be consumed by it and unable to see friends etc as that makes me more bitter and down. It's hard to do something different and battle those feelings but you have to try. 

Our 3rd cycle nearly drove us apart, I felt like we went through it separately and after it failed I could have walked away. We regrouped, took stock of life and got through it. After the year we've had and my complete meltdown he's been my rock and we are closer than ever. We recognised that treatment had done us damage and talked about how not to get to that place again before our last cycle.

Maybe some time off might help?. You could try and remember all the things you used to do like doing pre treatment and do them. At least the stress of work would be one less thing to think about. 

It's hard. Your post and how you're feeling resonated with me so much. 

Thinking of you. 
X


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## Frenchgirl (Nov 11, 2015)

Hi bellzez

Your message really resonates with me. This IVF thing is so hard going and pushes us to our limits so your feelings are completely normal.

I am in a very similar position to you. Following 5 cycles with Create, we have only managed to secure 2 frozen embryos and are now waiting for a FET…

I don’t really have much hope either, the embryos aren’t exactly top quality and I am also scared that we might lose them during the thawing process.

In the meantime to keep my mind off things I have tried to do a lot of things from reflexology to hypnotherapy sessions…Whilst this does help, it is still impossible to forget the challenge that we have ahead of us but we have to remain positive somehow.

I think the hardest thing with IVF is that for most people around us getting pregnant is easy, my brother just had his first baby and they didn’t struggle at all. A colleague of mine, older than me also got pregnant very easily. It seems so unfair…

Take care

X


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## Bellzez (May 29, 2016)

Hi All, 

Thank you so much for all your replies. I can't tell you how much it means to hear words of support from others who know how this feels. 

Frechgirl - How have you found create overall? I naively thought my three cycles would be over and done with within three months! No such luck. I've had three cancelled cycles (with a big hefty cancellation fees) on top of the cycles that have made it all the way to EC, it's dragged this process out and 8 months later I feel no further forward.My other concern is that we have just found out that our male factor is a lot worse than we thought so I'm worried our three day embryos will fail as I understand that the male gene kicks in from day 4. I feel quite betrayed by create for not telling us this information from the first EC. We could have seen a urologist or started my partner on supplements. I have no idea how I will cope with a negative outcome after 8 months of this. I initially thought this protocol would work for me having premature ovarian failure but now I feel that this approach has caused more stress as it takes so long. It's a difficult one because I don't think I would have responded well to maximum dose medication on a long protocol. Its so so hard to watch others get pregnant with ease. You're right though, we do need to stay positive but on the dark days I find this so difficult.  

Mrs-C I'm sorry to hear about your difficult time and failed cycles. I feel like I could have written your post. This is exactly how I feel at the moment. I feel like i'm grieving something that might never happen. The thought of this never happening is unimaginable, unspeakable. I too have distanced myself from my friends and also family. I have a lovely dear friend who keeps asking me if I would like to do something at weekends but I either lie and say I am busy or don't reply because I just can't spend time with her and her beautiful little baby. I have thought about sending her a message and just being honest but my feelings are feelings that I would rather keep to myself. I don't want her to know that I feel jealous and sad. I have thought about seeing a counsellor. The only thing that has prevented me from doing this is the cost. We have been self funding from the start and I think about the expense of future cycles but of course I also realise that it can't be good to be in this state of mind ongoing. In the last couple of days my lovely boss has ordered me a laptop and agreed that I can work from home on 'bad days' which is great! Thank you so much for your message and I wish you all the luck in the world with your next cycle. 

Magicpillow - Thank you so much for those recommendations. I will certainly google this website tonight. I have a bad habit of endlessly scrolling through fertility websites at night researching success rates etc. Perhaps I need to switch off and listen to one of these. I hadn't really thought about counselling through the NHS. My boss referred me to occupational health and did manage to see a counsellor through work but unfortunately the counsellor seemed to be inexperienced and looked overwhelmed and out of her depth. I will let you know how I get on with the hypnotherapy.

Bahhumbug - Thank you for your message. I know those weekends of crying and not wanting to get out of bed. My clinic is just a satellite clinic in Bristol so although my clinic do offer counselling the sessions are run in London! Eek! I think i will have to look for an alternative counsellor. I have very dark thoughts at times such as 'I don't want to carry on living if I can't have children'. These are awful scary thoughts and I know I would never do anything silly! It's very difficult to share these thoughts with others so I think maybe counselling is needed. Perhaps I can sell some items on eBay or something to raise the funds unless I can get it through the NHS. Thank you so much again for your message. It reassures me that I'm not alone.

Queenie123 - Thank you for your message. Was so interested to read about your DH's protocol and results! This reassures me so much. My partner was so reluctant to take anything at all because our consultant stated that 'icsi overcomes all male infertility factors' (thanks for that)!!! So then who I spoke to the consultant after my three rounds to ask him why my eggs didn't fertilise with icsi, he tells me the sperm was very very poor and there were only 2 or 3 motile sperm in the whole sample! I was angry! After hearing this my partner is now taking supplements. We have the Vit C and Vit E but nothing else at the moment. I will look for the others. Unfortunately my AFC is typically between 0-3. My AMH is 1.2 and FSH 26 so pretty discouraging. TBH I accept that I will probably need donor eggs but i'm scared even this won't work with my partners sperm. Anyway, I will certainly look into your suggestions. Can I ask you, what is ejaculation EOD?

Talkingfrog- thank you for your message. Thankfully my partner and I are talking again. We have not spoken about the fertility problems. We just had a hug which was the best feeling after having days of feeling alone. We have agreed that we will have  break from talking about fertility (he is much better at this than myself) but we might have joint counselling if our FET doesn't work so that we can support each other properly. 

Thank you again to all. Your words made me feel less alone! xxxxxx


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## queenie123 (Jul 18, 2016)

Hey, 
Your are a similar age to me! Don't loose heart.  The road is long but plenty of people who have our levels make it with expert help!
Try to find something else to focus on so your life isn't only about babies.  I started more study which I love (although it's challenging) as I wanted something to enhance my career and take the focus off our empty house.  It's helped give my life some more meaning whilst we are waiting as I am prepared for a slightly longer journey.  I think it helps to connect with people who are in a similar boat to you and also know people who have gone through it who have success stories - we found that as soon as we started sharing then lots of people told us their kids were made through IVF who we didn't previously know had been down that route!

AMH and egg quality are independently related. AMH only indicates the number of primordial eggs you have not the quality  ie. as your young (ish) the egg quality is better, you only need one good one!  Find a clinic who specialise in low AMH as the protocols need to be individually tailored to you. Accept that you will likely need 3 cycles for every 1 a someone with normal AMH has if you want own eggs.  There is some evidence that asprin 100mg helps I'm trying that this cycle so I'll let you know if there is a difference in me.  I was also recommended 5mg folic acid, coenzq10 and melatonin to help with sleep.  I am also taking Vit D & Magnesium as Low Vit D decreases AMH. 

Embryo quality is 50% about the sperm - the WHO advises 15% morphology as normal, although most nhs consultants seem to ignore it until you have had multiple failures.  I work as a vet in equine studd medicine and I wouldn't every use anything less than 15% morph and 50% motility. (but animals are different).  switching to no alcohol has made a big difference for him as well.  ISCI only helps the sperm get into the egg it doesn't improve DNA quality.  There is good evidence in cattle (big industry cattle artificial insemination) that microscopic appearance of poor morphology is consistent with poor DNA and live birth rates, so improving the fragmentation as much as possible will really help you. 
EOD means Every Other Day. It takes aprox. 30 ejeculations to empty the vas deferens (glad to store sperm) so it takes 2-3months of that protocol to see the full benefits.  Doesn't matter if that is with you or without just removes the damaged old sperm to allow the new ones made to be healthier. 

Sending you hugs


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## magicpillow (Feb 8, 2015)

Queenie I've also gone back to study and that has really helped with the infertility stuff.  I'm retraining for a new career and although it's hard going at times as it's an intensive course, it has helped so much to have a really positive focus away from infertility and be doing something I really enjoy.  Someone on my uni course has just announced she's pregnant which doesn't help but apart from that it's been a positive step.


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## sarajay (Nov 2, 2016)

Hi bellzez,

I wanted to say you are not alone and from reading the other replies that is very clear.  Me and my husband are in excatly the same darkness although our situation is slightly different.  We too are not talking to my brother inlaw and his wife as they had a little girl the day before my birthday and they feel they don't want our type of negativity around their new born and my cousin has just had a little boy and I found out her sister is expecting her second.  I too am still in a really dark place and am sick of people telling me to stop being negative and have hope but hope hasn't worked for me the last 9 years so I see myself as being realistic rather then negative.  I'm very new to ff (only joined yesterday) as I had no idea this group existed and couldn't cope with hunting through the Internet for people that understand.  I'm not going to say these feelings ever really go but I would like to think that they get easier (not through hope but realism just like grief it never goes but gets easier to handle) just know for now you have a lot of support from a lot of people who completely understand and that will help you through these dark times keep your head held high sending big hugs your way
Sarajay x


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## Frenchgirl (Nov 11, 2015)

So Sorry, I have been on holidays for the last 2 weeks and only just saw your message. 

I have been with Create since January 16 and we haven't had a transfer yet because of my endometriosis, I am currently on Zoladex...and hoping for a transfer in December or January.

With regards to the clinic, I am not really impressed, I spend my time chasing them for information and I don't find them very helpful either. For example, I was meant to have an hysteroscopy on Tuesday next week and they messed up with the date because the Dr took the wrong instructions. I am trying to get them to correct this mess now. This is adding to the stress of the treatment.

Take care x


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## Devon-32 (Oct 11, 2016)

Hi Bellzez,
From the replies already I hope you feel you are not alone. I thought I was a reasonably rationale person but my goodness how such a trait flies out the window when you are thrown into the world of infertility. It is all consuming and I no longer have good days just ok days and bad days. I struggle to conjure up the words to describe the soul crushing pain that comes with such a diagnosis. Like you I cannot bear to be around pregnant friends and family at the moment which makes me feel like the most selfish cow. Of course I'm happy for them but to see them just reminds me what I may never have. My sister and sister-in law have 2 children and my sister is pregnant again and even sent me the most insensitive email to announce her news. Subject line was "yay you're expecting" followed by "another niece" in the main text with a sonogram pic. I read this on the day we got told our cycle has been delayed due to an issue with funding. I had the drugs and cycle dates ready to go and now have to wait till January. I think it is hard for people who haven't been through such an ordeal to understand how painful such an announcement can be.  On top of this I've had my parents say they will be moving abroad to be with my sister as they have guaranteed grandchildren there and a no longer friend told me infertility is natures population control and we are selfish to try overrule this. Needless to say I've had some very dark days and only the kind words and sense of solidarity found on forums like this have gotten me through. This is not meant to upset and will probably not help most in this situation but I found it a useful exercise. My partner and I started to list any positives we could think of if we didn't have a child. When you put your mind to it you'll be surprised how many things you can think of. Don't get me wrong no matter how many we come up with all of them will never trump the one desire to have our own child. But it does help me on my darkest days to read over them. 
I hope you find the support on the forum as helpful as I have and know you are not alone. I wish you all the best. 
Take care
X


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## Bahhumbug (Nov 30, 2014)

Devon32
I'm so sorry your parents have behaved like that. It madee really angry to read that.
And your old friend, too.
Sending you love and understanding
Xxxx


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