# Can I really do this again?



## waikiki (Aug 11, 2010)

So this is me…

I have been ttc for over 7 years now and after 9 failed IVFs including 3 DE cycles, I have already come much further down this IF road than I ever thought I would have to.  DH and I have been gearing up for another DE cycle in the next few months, but now that this cycle is approaching, I just don’t know if I can do it again.

After so many failed IVFs (I have never once had a BFP) my expectation is that it won’t work – I know that I should feel more positively than this, but it’s just too hard.  My doctor will try a couple of new treatments that I haven’t done before and he seems confident that these will make the difference.  I want to believe him, but I have heard this so many times before from doctors that I am struggling to have faith.  I am desperate to be a mum but at the same time no longer believe that I ever will be.  If this is truly the case, should I put myself through this again?

The alternatives are to give up and accept a child-free life or look into adoption or surrogacy.  I honestly don’t know if I have the energy to embark on adoption or surrogacy after so many years of IF, and DH and I both feel that these options may not be right for us.  So it is give up altogether or carry on – this next DE cycle would be at Dr Braverman’s clinic in New York.  He is a pioneer in reproductive immunology so if anyone can get me pg I guess it would be him, but at a cost of $20,000 I don’t know if it’s a risk I can take.  My parents have been very supportive and have helped to finance much of our IVF tx in the past, I know I am very lucky to have had their help but don’t know if I could stand to waste so much more of their money if this tx doesn’t work.

Sometimes when I am feeling more positive I think that if I keep going it has to work eventually, but then I worry about whether it is even what I want anymore.  Don’t get me wrong, I am desperate to be a mum, but if truth be told I wanted a baby 7 years ago – most of my friends’ kids are growing up now and even if I had a baby now I don’t think I could ever fit into the ‘mummy club’.  I worry that I would always feel different to the ‘normal’ mummies and resent the carefree way in which they were given what I worked so hard for.  It’s a very long time since I’ve felt ‘normal’ in any way, I have even stopped posting much on FF because I feel that I have passed way beyond the three or four failures which is as much as most people here seem to suffer.  I have felt so low for so many years now that I worry that after waiting so long and trying so hard for a baby, I wouldn’t be able to cope with the reality of motherhood.

On the other hand I am terrified of never being a mother – I have already lost touch with many of my friends because I just can’t bear to be around them and their happy families.  If I don’t have a child I don’t know how I will ever get over it and am afraid of being alone as I get older. 

I’m sorry that this is a bit of a ramble and I don’t even know if anyone can offer me any advice, because I suspect only I can decide when enough is enough.  However, if any of you have found yourself in a similar situation I’d love to hear from you, because I feel very lost at the moment.

Thanks,

waikiki


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## Mummy DIY Diva (Feb 18, 2012)

I am so sorry for everything you have gone through / are going through. I can't tell you what to do I wish I could because I have often wanted this for myself. I would love the freedom and lack of responsibility that comes with not having to choose what is going to make you the least unhappy. (I feel this is the life infertility gives you I find.) This is made harder by watching everyone else choosing what will make them happiest  . 

I think you have to ask yourself what will you feel about not doing it. Weigh up the devastation of a negative cycle with the thought of living not knowing if it would have been positive.   We walked away after 2 x ICSI and 1 FET because for us the possibility of another failure far out ways the living with not knowing. 

Also bear in mind that not feeling into adoption or surrogacy right now isn't a no for ever. You have been on one hell of a journey and I can't imagine how awful it all must have been. IVF takes over your life. I would love to slap every easily conceiving friend who  has told me don't be one of those obsessed women. I'd like to see them lived their chilled out care free lives when they have to get up at 5am for blood tests and live each day hour by hour waiting for the next phone call telling them what to do. 

My husband was very cautious about adoption but going to open days and talking to people has really changed his mind. You won't feel you have the strength in you for it now because you have had to fight to hard already but you are still standing when most would have fallen long ago. In time when you have taken a bit of time for you I am sure you could do anything you put your mind to if it is what you want. 

It is hard people who had their children when we started trying their children will all start school in September and their second  / third will be a lot older than the children we will hopefully have. I dreamed of our children growing up with their cousins and friends but I have accepted this isn't going to be. However this won't take away from our happiness when we are a family through adoption. I wish you luck whatever you decide x


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## mb2512cat (Sep 12, 2011)

I'm so sorry you've had such a hard time. I haven't had anywhere near the number of ivfs you have had, but the past five years have been very hard and though we are preparing for a new cycle in feb, I have already had my fill. This whole Ttc thing has poisoned my life. I just want it over with (I am not at all optimistic we will produce even one embi that is genetically normal, let alone a normal one that turns into a live baby nine months down the line) so I can just face facts. 

Can I ask why are you going to NY? Is that because you've exhausted options in UK/Europe or you live there anyway? 

I would hesitate to advise you to go ahead with another treatment until you have a good idea of why your embies aren't taking? 

I just know of a lot of people who unwittingly have my condition, a balanced translocation, and have failed ivfs and then it turns out their chromosomes are messed up but they've ever been tested for it. Indeed, the test that identified my issue wasn't available until 2010 in the UK, and even now I don't know how widespread it is among PCTs. I'm not saying I think it could be relevant to you as normally it causes miscarriages and evidently you have had DE cycles. But if you already know the cause and this doc is the only one you can think of that would be able to help, then I'm not surprised you are tempted. Sometimes I think we are all gamblers at the casino here, convinced that just one more and we'll hit the jackpot!!

Have you had much counselling re your situation? If so, has it helped much? 

I'm sorry you are at such a crossroads.


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## Billybeans (Jun 16, 2012)

Waikiki, I am so sorry for how you are feeling. Like you mentioned in your post, unfortunately we cannot make the decision for you,having said that we can tell you how we might feel in your situation.
Just like you mentioned, I am one of those Ladies who have had 3 ivf's which havn't worked and I am convinced I don't want more ivf. Our situation is slightly different though as I ave managed 2 natural BFP's, although neither of them stuck around. I have hope of a natural BFP and I am clinging on to that but your situation is different. I agree with Gwyneth when she says your views of surrogacy and adoption may change.
I think if you are having doubts about going ahead, then perhaps put it on hold for a while until you have given yourself more time to come to a decision that you feel comfortable with. Ask yourself questions that perhaps others might ask you. I think you have to be committed to going ahead with a cycle to give yourself the best chance. You sound absolutely exhausted with journey which isn't surprising considering what you have been through.
If you havn't had counselling recently then maybe this is a good place to start? Talk to someone about your fears, about how you feel about going ahead with another cycle and whether you would regret going ahead and getting a BFN or not going ahead at all...what would you regret most?
Why do you not think surrogacy and adoption are for you? If it's because you are exhausted by it all, perhaps these things will change given 12mths out, time for yourself and your body some attention, lots of relaxation/massages/meals out and so on...What are your DP views?
I truly hope you can come to a decision that you feel comfortable with but don't feel pressured to go ahead with something if you are not ready.


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## wobs (May 28, 2007)

Hi Waikiki,

I can totally empathise with how you feel.  I know we've shared posts in the past on another thread, but that thread no longer seems right for me...

I said a few months ago after our 8th ICSI that that was it....and I thought it was.  How did we ever get to having sooooo many cycles!  DH is happy with stopping but if I am honest, I am still in limbo.  Still thinking about contacting Serum or Create or another place - anywhere indeed that seems to work the wonders people say....But my gut instinct is that really we should quit.  We have spent far far far too much money - money that could have been used for many other things.  Maybe the longer I do nothing, it'll be ok?  

I'm with you on the adoption/surrogacy thing... Trouble is, perhaps like you?, we have been told so many different things that are the problem.  Started off as MF only, then after losing an ovary on our 3rd cycle became FF too. Then from having OHSS on 1st cycle I suddenly had really low AMH...The clinic suggested DE.  Went to ARGC they got a great crop of eggs/embies (the best for us) but apparently I have lots of immunes issues.  So surrogacy could apparently solve it.  Trouble is I no longer know who to trust/believe.  I don't believe anyone is out to con us but I do think that in the field of IF there are lots and lots of grey areas and what works for one person will not work for another.  Sadly it is also a game of luck I believe.

I do know however that I am glad we have tried.  I am glad we have been down that road.  

I totally agree with your comment - I wanted a baby 7 years ago.  That is exactly it!  It's not that I don't want children, it is just that maybe I am beginning to accept that I can't have everything I want in life.  The thought of no more injections feels great.  I still have painful thighs/rear (!) 3 months on from gestone injections and the thought of all that again doesn't appeal.  I too am not sure I could fit into the standard 'mummy' club and actually now enjoy playing with nieces/nephews and then returning them when the tears come.  It isn't what I wanted in life, but maybe I could make it work for me?

As Shining Star says I guess only the two of you can make a decision.  It felt right for us to have our last treatment and it feels right for us not to be rushing into anything.  I'm not denying that if we won the lottery I'd be at the ARGC again in a flash, but for now for soooo much money & sooo little hope it feels right not to do anything.  I think for you if people are willing to support and help finance treatment, they wouldn't do that if they weren't happy to do it.  I know it is hard not to feel guilty but ultimately it is not about the money it is about if you can cope with the emotional/physical toll - and indeed how you would felt if you did stop now.  I'm also not denying that I won't be hoping some miracle treatment will come out in the next few years.  I feel I am old but I guess in IF terms I am not that old, and you have a few years on me.

I'm sorry I've waffled Waikiki and re-reading it all seems a bit random (clearly my brain is in a muddle!) but just want you to know that sadly you are not alone on this journey wherever it ends up and if you ever want to chat I'm here - on here or via pm if you prefer.

Take care 
Wobs
x


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## wobs (May 28, 2007)

Sorry ladies - I also meant to see sorry to read everyone else's profiles


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## waikiki (Aug 11, 2010)

Thank you all so much for taking the time to respond to my rather desperate sounding ramble!    

Gwyneth - I think that your wording of our choice is spot on - it absolutely is a case of deciding what will make me least unhappy.  It isn't fair is it?!    Funnily enough when we started on this journey I felt that I could have considered adoption, whereas my DH has always been dead set against it.  The further down the IF road we have got, strangely I have become more and more convinced that it is not for us.  But you're right, I should take the time to find out more about it and have already decided to start looking into adoption services in our area.  Even if it does end up not being right for us, I want to know that at least we have found out about it and made an informed decision.

mb2512cat - Thank you also for you advice - DH and I had a series of chromosomal tests following our 4th failed IVF, so we know that we do not have a balanced translocation.  The reason we looked into going to NY is because I have already had tx at a couple of the top UK clinics - most of my OE tx were done at the Lister as I had poor ovarian reserve and I believe that they are the best UK clinic for this problem.  When I wasn't successful they eventually told me it was time to try DE - I always felt that eggs were not my only problem and by this time I had already been diagnosed with some immune issues which I was also being treated for.  But following their advice I switched to donor eggs at CRM London (the waiting list at the Lister was too long).  I still had no luck there so moved to Serum in Athens, having heard wonderful things about their successes with 'tricky' cases.  I had two DE cycles there - both times I was given one of their best donors, who had achieved successful pregnancies in each of their previous donations (4 each).  In total I had 7 'perfect' embryos transferred over 2 cycles but still nothing.  Even Penny didn't know what to advise - at that point she basically told me that it was a numbers game and that if I kept going it had to work one day.  I'm afraid that's not a scientific enough answer for me, so I found Dr Braverman in NY as he is an expert in reproductive immunology.

Re. counselling, I did have some last year as I was really, really low after my first DE failure, especially as it coincided with a close friend getting pg on her first IVF cycle.  The counseller did help me to realise that the feelings I have are completely normal given what I have been through (I used to beat myself up about how jealous and angry I felt towards friends), but didn't really help me in any other way.  I had hoped that by going to see her it would help me to deal with friends' pregnancies more easily but it didn't and I still avoid most of my friends.

Shining Star - You're right, I do need to feel committed to this cycle before I start, which is what has thrown me this time.  In the past I have always been convinced that I am doing the right thing before each cycle, but this time I'm not so sure.  I have mentioned my fears to DH and we've decided to sit down and talk them all through over the next few days.  He told me sometime ago that he is happy for me to keep going for as long as I want to, but that equally if I want to stop, he knows that he can build a good life without children.  He is much more pragmatic about this than I am!!  Anyway, I hope that talking everything through with DH will help me to clarify which path is best for us.  

I agree that taking time out from tx can certainly refresh you and help you to feel ready for the next cycle when it comes.  But it's 6 months since my last tx, so even though I should feel ready to go again, I now know only too well what it actually entails.  I think that it is the anticipation of the devastation of another failure that is upsetting me so much now.  If it works it will be 110% worth it, but if it doesn't can I really pick myself up again?

Wobs - So lovely to hear from you!  I too stopped posting on the other thread as I felt that my time there had passed.  It sounds like we have had similar experiences of doctors telling us they know what our problem is and how to solve it!  Like you, I know that they don't say this to con us, they truly believe that they have the answer, but in my case it certainly isn't just one thing that is stopping me from getting pg, they have already found several things to treat.  My deep seated fear is that the one thing that has stopped it from working so far maybe the one thing that they will never find.

It seems that we are both at a very similar crossroads at the moment, so I would be happy to chat with you to see if we can help each other come to the decision that is right for us.

To all of you lovely ladies - as wobs has said, although it gives me great comfort to know that I am not alone in this, I am sorry that any of you have had to go through this hell. I   that we will all get the families that we deserve one day soon.

 waikiki


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## Nordickat (Feb 6, 2009)

waikiki and wobs   I´m so sorry for running out on you both a while back. I think I needed to step away from people at the crossroads while I tried to get across it safely with my head clear. I feel I have finally got across now although it was touch and go for a while but I´m at peace with my decision, not happy, but at peace. I still have those moments where I question if I´m just a quitter and should have continued. I walked past a house this morning with 3 mini sets of skis all in a line against the wall. They weren´t randomly placed but in increasing size order which seemed such powerful symbol of my failings and of time passing me by, of what I too should have achieved by now. I´ve no idea why I just told you that  .

Hi to the rest of you too. I think this is the worst board to find yourself on and the not knowing which way to turn is a lot more draining than deciding to brave another BFN or brave a childless future  . I was at the same crossroads a few years ago and made the decision to continue with tx and I know in my heart that it was the right decision at the time, despite all of the heartache that followed I know I needed to keep trying to ´finish´my tx journey. This time, even though it hurts like crazy sometimes, I know that the right decision is to ´move on´and find a new life.

I really do think that its impossible to make a wrong decision. Whatever you decide to do will be right for you and your DH. Go with your heart waikiki, it always knows best. Maybe writing all your thoughts down might help. I don´t mean sitting down one night and writing everything down, more like having a notebook in your bag that you can write in as and when you need, and then maybe you can read through it when you and DH are talking to see how you felt t different times. I don´t know, maybe thats a stupid idea but I sometimes feel overwhelmed by my feelings if I have to sit down and talk at a certain time. My most rational feelings come when I´m just getting on with my day. Does that make any sense at all?

And remember that no decision is irreversible. Like qwyneth said, adoption/surrogacy might not be right today but it might be one day. Deciding not to try tx again now doesn´t mean you can´t try it next year instead. Maybe we all have to do what feels right now and then worry about tomorrow when it comes along.

Clearly I have started to ramble so I´ll stop. You know where I am though if you want to hear more ramblings   
Love Katxxx


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## waikiki (Aug 11, 2010)

Hi Kat,

It's so good to hear from you hun - I realised that you needed to be left alone for a while, but I'm glad to hear that you feel you are over the worst of it now.    

Funnily enough I have been making notes to myself over the last few days, so I will certainly use those when DH and I have our chat.  Having had a few more days to think about it I think in my heart I do have another cycle left in me, but don't know if I can face going to the US.  So I'm still mulling that over at the moment and I'll let you know what we decide.

Kat, likewise you know where I am if you fancy chatting either about IF or not, it's up to you.

 waikiki


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## Nordickat (Feb 6, 2009)

Hello again, 


I´ll email you next week for a catch up   


Maybe if you think of it as going to the US for a holiday and while you are there you might as well get a couple of embies   . If you feel more motivated when you think of tx nearer to home then I guess the US is wrong for you but another round of tx is the right thing.


Speak soon. I need caffeine now   
Katxxx


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## wobs (May 28, 2007)

Hi ladies

Waikiki- hope you're doing ok.  Sorry for lack of replies to this post ladies...Last week just seemed to run away with me!

Kat - lovely to read your post.  Glad you are doing ok.  A friend of mine was telling me that I don't have to like the decision to stop, I just have to accept it.  That resonated with you saying you are at peace with your decision, not happy, but at peace.  Think that is where I am headed.  Don't have the energy or inclination really to do any research/speak to any clinics.  You are right too Kat - no decision is irreversible & that whatever decision made is the right one.  Wise, wise words.  But then you always did have a wise head on those shoulders and always seemed to know what to say to us at different times.  Thankyou   

ttfn
Wobs


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## Ivfmamma (Jun 10, 2012)

Hi, I can't give a positive story from my point of view as I don't have any success yet.

Someone who my mum knows had a similar thing to this, I personally started talking to her a few years ago when we were first contemplating ivf, my mum introduced us to each other & we regular texted each other. 

She had 6 failed cycles, 3x nhs funded, 1 full payed cycle & 2 egg shared cycles - all bfn.

Her husband said he didn't want to do it anymore & she begged & pleaded, finally he agreed & they did a 7th full funded cycle - bfp but miscarried at 8 weeks. 

She begged him again as like she said she knew she could get pregnant now & he agreed eventually. 

8th cycle & 2 embryos transferred & today at this time were ever she is (haven't spoken for a while) she will be probably cooking her twins tea!!

I don't want to say don't give up hope as you probably give up long long ago (I did!) miracles do happen.

x


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## wobs (May 28, 2007)

Ivfmamma - sorry to read your signature.  Nice story re: your friend.  
I kind of think that is the trouble I have - will I regret giving up? But as Kat says once you have made a decision you make a decision I guess.

Mb2515cat - you sound as if you have had a tough time.  Can I ask whether it was standard chromosome testing you had?  We both had tests quite a few years ago and all fine but wondered if there was something different they test for now?

Hope everyone else is doing ok
Wobs


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## waikiki (Aug 11, 2010)

Big hugs IVFmamma, I see that you have also had a long journey with IF.  Thank you for sharing your friend's story.

Wobs - just wanted to say thank you for your PM, I'm sorry I haven't replied yet but I am having a very hectic week.  DH is taking me to Gary Barlow in London tonight, but I hope to get back online again tomorrow to send you a proper reply.  

Sending    to you Kat.


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## mb2512cat (Sep 12, 2011)

Hi wobs, yes they finally tested us using array CGH and it identified the translocation. I don't get the impression it's been around more than a couple of years in the UK and isn't as routine as it seems to be in the US. Conventional karyotyping didn't pick up the translocation so cvs with our first and amino with n2 came back clear. I hope this test spreads more widely as it seems much more sensitive than the current testing.


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## wobs (May 28, 2007)

Thanks for the reply mb2512cat - is array CGH a blood test or a test they do on embryos?  I had my chromosomes tested and DH had chromosomes and y-microdeletion....I'm glad you finally have a diagnosis but sorry you have had to go through so much pain.

Waikiki - wow - have a nice time out in London! Enjoy

Hi everyone else
Wobs


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## mb2512cat (Sep 12, 2011)

It's a blood test. So does your DH have a microdeletion on his Y chromosome? Has anyone explained to you what the impact of that might be?


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## wobs (May 28, 2007)

hi
thanks mb2512cat - no his chromosomes and y microdeletion all fine - I guess meant he had had then tested - sorry wasn't clear.

hope everyone doing ok
Wobs


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## jamaicababytrying (Jun 29, 2010)

Good morning ladies

Waikiki hi it' s been awhile sorry to hear that you too are feeling this way.

I unfortunately don't have an answer as I too am struggling, all i can say is follow your heart, not too inspiring I know anyway will post a better message later these small keys are killing me. I just had to make a quick comment.

Hi wobs and kat, also to the other ladies.

JBT


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## Nordickat (Feb 6, 2009)

The veteran barbies reunited


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## jamaicababytrying (Jun 29, 2010)

I can finally write a proper post, that small tablet is just not happening!

Anyway Waikiki I often wonder if I too will grow old alone, I just thought that today. For me if I could afford just one more cycle I would do it but then if it wasn't successful would I say just one more? I know dh doesn't want one more! He doesn't want adoption and we don't have surrogacy here. He has his child so it's all for me. I am so confused I don't even know what to say! I often wish I lived in a country that offered government aid for ivf treatments. Infertility is such a underground issue in this country that it is hard. We only have one unit that does ivf treatments and there is no funding or aid or insurance that helps so it is hard to afford a tx. Not only do I have to cope with the fact that my stupid body fails me I have to also cope with the fact that if I can't afford it whether i want to or not I can't! I know I am rambling and I know many of you have heard this all before but it is a struggle this damn IF.

I also know how you feel about wanting kids, when we started out 6 years ago I wanted kids to grow up with their cousins and step brother now they are all grown and if I am blessed with kids will I have the energy and will I be good at it. Do I want to spend more money on something that is not a guaranteed? So many things we sacrifice for tx so many things we have given up. I have always wanted to have kids always as long as I can remember and boy do I love my nieces and nephews, I wish i had a better relationship with my stepson but it won't happen and I have accepted that. So I can't reproduce and I can't mother my husband's child  

So Waikiki your concerns are shared by others and only we can make the choices. It is hard to cope with and it is hard to swallow but ultimately you have to do what your heart tells you.

hugs ladies, I pray we all have a happy ending with or without child.

JBT


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## vw22 (Jul 27, 2009)

Hi Girls,
I have been inspired by Nordikat to post on here. I have been biding my time (you may remember me from 2 years ago on the barbie thread) as I am worried I won't be able to spend much time on here keeping up as life is a little chaotic. However I do want to update you all and who knows maybe even give hope...

We have been very very lucky basically... eventually! 

In May 2011 we gave up treatments and went to america and signed up with a surrogacy agency and went down the whole surrogate route. It was seriously the most stressful year of my life...it seemed more stressful than the IVF treatments somehow. It was all lawyers and money and utter emotional blackmail and I would only recommend the process to the hard hearted. Everythign that could go wrong did. Surrogate's boyfriend ended up in jail (!), egg donor lied about her past etc etc and there were numerous times we were advised to quit and start again with new people. But our dear son was born at 34 weeks and he was healthy. The bills mounted up because of the premature birth and believe me it was a total mess financially. BUT we finally had a baby boy and a chance to come home, if we could get through immigration and all the laws against surrogacy in our country (nz).

In addition to all that, the clinic I worked with in Spain gave me the chance of a virtually free treatment. So after 17 IVF treatments that failed or resulted in miscarriage, I went along. Amazingly I got pregnant and had another baby boy last week! The pregnancy was perfect and at 46 years old I had a natural birth despite doctors telling me I was too old. I am even breastfeeding easily, again something I was told would never happen at my age. 

So we have 2 boys 5 months apart. Not even remotely possible to cover that up at the school gates!

I really appreciate that my good news is not always for everyone, especially anyone suffering from moving on and not wanting to. So I didn't feel it was appropriate to blast it over FF. Although I wanted to give people hope that might still be trying, I didn't want to upset anyone that had made other decisions. I have been to hell and back numerous times as you will be aware and fully understand the emotional chaos that comes with this fertility journey. Its undescribable to anyone that has not experienced it. 

So life is very hectic at the moment but I would like put my story out there, although needed someone like nordikat to give me the confidence it was the right thing to do,  if for no other reason to let people know I am ok and that good things can happen. I was on FF for ages and got so much from it, and the people I 'met'.

I admit I am not sure where everyone is at, at the moment as I havn't had a chance to read up. But I would love to catch up again when I have some time.

I am wishing you all lots of love and 'luck' for the futures you are creating, whatever that may be. If I can be any help I will try to be but please excuse me if you don't hear anything for a while as I try to get sorted. 


Vx


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## squirrel2010 (Nov 6, 2010)

Dear ladies,

The rather wonderful Nordickat has also inspired me, to read this thread. She has helped me more than she can know, and never makes me feel alone - the exact opposite in fact - no matter how much I freak out about IF/IVF!

I wanted to say, at the risk of completely butting in, how much all of your posts have touched my heart - brought tears to my eyes - and helped me in ways I cannot even explain. I will try though. All of you have been through so much, and literally been to hell and back - and even still sitting in our own little private hells in some cases. I have been cursing myself for so long, hating my body for bringing such devastation to our lives, alienating myself from fertile friends and family, trying to fight against what I feel is poisoning every single aspect of my life....and so far losing that fight. Thinking about facing the fear of it never working, trying to open my mind to other options, how far we would compromise to find a way to have a family. I think I have been hating myself and blaming myself for being infertile for a long time and now, I have had a moment of clarity thanks to you - and knowing that I am not alone in how I feel, what my mind feels, and how this journey is going, what decisions to make, how to feel that it is the right decision ... means so much. 

The ladies I have met on FF, seeing your stories, words of advice to each other - NONE of us deserve this and how can I blame myself when I do not for one second blame any of you? If you wonderful ladies do not deserve this, then I do not deserve this either. How I am feeling, is normal, and what you girls have posted, could have come out of my tangled little squirrel brain! 

Thank you for making me feel normal. I just want to feel normal, and that the way I am thinking is not completely alien! Thank you for making me feel - not alone - if that makes sense. Thank you for showing me that there are so many options, decisions, compromises, and that none of them are the right answer. It is such a personal journey, and no journey is the same and sometimes the bravest thing is to consider stopping treatment. Either way, the decision is inside our hearts, and isnt the same for everyone - but that doesnt mean it isnt the right decision, or indeed that one decision cannot be changed in the future if we want.

The support and friendship bonds that can be formed through all of this hell - is my silver lining in all this - the girls I have met, the posts I have read - are the good things to come out of all of this.

vw22 - thank you so much for sharing your hope - I needed that more than you will know. Xx

Jamaicababytrying - i hear you - this is a huge struggle, and a daily fight - not only against the world around us, but also against the mind games and voices that say 'what if this happens' and 'what if that happens'! You are right, and we do have to dig deep and make our own choices and pray for the right ending.   xx

Kat -   and thank you as always. Wise owl   and also for pointing out that no decision is irreversible or wrong - if it feels right at the time, you have to go with it xx

Wobs - from your previous posts, thank you for mentioning acceptance and being at peace with your decisions, I just wanted to wish you all the very very best in what you decide   xx

Waikiki - I have written three pages of notes, thoughts and plans this morning! It does bring more clarity, and I wanted to wish you all the very very best as well - in what you decide - sending you strength and   xx

Ivfmamma - thank you for your story, and positivity xx

Everyone -   xx

AFM - I am sorry for all the waffle above! I guess I needed to say all of that, and maybe this was or wasn't the place to, but either way thank you again. You have helped me make a decision which I now know was the right one. For now! Onwards girls, chin up, tits out, and may the path we all choose, be the right one for us at the right time xx


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## jamaicababytrying (Jun 29, 2010)

Thanks Squirrel2010 all you said hit home. Kat is a true inspiration to us all and as you put it a wise owl.

I wish we all did not have to go through this unpleasant, confidence busting experience. Where there is life there is hope. So since I have life I will continue to have hope.

I have finally started back with my exercise regime, walking 3 miles at least 6 evenings a week and it is my time to think and enjoy the evening air. Sometimes dh comes with me and sometimes I prod along alone. Sometimes being alone is dangerous to the mind but still I get to have some me time. I have many issues to sort out, Father in law living with us, nephew living with us, financial issues, coping issues... 

You all help in so many ways, thank you

vw I do remember you and congrats twice! You are an inspiration. As for me i have from frosties to use and I am thinking hard about using them but the 

JBT


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## Nordickat (Feb 6, 2009)

Get me with my own fan club on here ;-)

I can assure you both, squirrel and JBT, that there is nothing inspirational or inspiring about me. If only you knew how often I was sat with pencils up my nose saying 'wibble'. I hope 'black adder goes forth' made it to Jamaica JBT or that will make no sense lol. Bless you both for being so kind though xxx

squirrel - i hope it helped to voice your thoughts?
JBT - I'm glad you are back and I'm really pleased your mum got the all clear xxx
VW - I'm still smiling for you xxx
Wobs and Waikiki - I hope the confusion is sorting itself out and you are beginning to see which path to take.
Everyone else - I hope your time at the crossroads is as painless as it can be.

This board isn't really my home, maybe its even a little offensive to some that i've posted, but I hope you continue to post here so I can sneakily follow you all ;-)

Lots of love to all my old friends and good luck to everyone.
Katxxx


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## squirrel2010 (Nov 6, 2010)

Hi girls,

JBT - your exercise regime and thinking time sounds very therapeutic and healthy, though I know what you mean about too much thinking. Sometimes the number of issues in my head blur into a mess of tangled thoughts which I imagine to be like a ndred necklace chains all mangled together! You know when it takes ages to untangle even two necklaces?! I suppose one necklace at a time, and buckets of patience - which i lack...you are right though, we have life, so we need to continue with hope, that whatever path we take, is one we can cope with and find peace with. Hope you are having a good week xx

Wobs, Waikiki - how you doing? I hope that pathways are becoming more certain xx

Kat - loving the black adder, ha ha ha. Do you know the goblin song?! I even have pom poms with which to cheer you  . Keep lurking, we need you    xx

AFM - thought i had a plan, a plan so cunning you could put a tail on it, and call it a weasel! More black adder  ? I thought I had a path and I was even sticking my best foot forward. Always the way, one step forward, three back. My best friend told me she was pg tonight, and in one moment, I have gone back to the start. We try and try and try and break ourselves doing this, for the chance at having a baby. We dont get to have that surprise - i'm pregnant conversation with family or friends, we dont get to just have sex, we dont get to have an easy ride. We try with our whole body and soul, and then the world or whoever, slaps you in the face again. Of course i am happy for her. But yet another friend who disappears through into another world i am not part of. I cant face seeing pg people, i cant face hearing everyone gush at them, i cant face the changes that inevitably happen when one friend is left behind and the other goes merrily forwards. I havent got it in me to pretend and put that face on, everytime we meet up. I hate the fact that IF / IVF screws with your relationship with everyone in your life. I dont want to be this bitter, weird, lonely squirrel with no friends left because i am the one left behind. But tonight girls - I am.
Sorry for the rant, just want to be normal. Tonight, i just think - what is the point of trying to be like my friends - i am not like them. I need strength from somewhere. I know I will probably move back onto my plan for the next disasterous cycle, but I just needed to vent. How do you cope with this, coz I aint coping well   xxxx


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## janie73 (Jul 28, 2011)

oh squirrel. I've been posting on a neighbouring thread but keeping an eye on this one too. I am so sorry you've had such a blow. Sometimes I think we can start to believe we are doing OK, we have our plan for tx or we even start to believe that we can find the strength to move on without children.... and then k'pow there is a side blow from left-field and it hurts like hell all over again. I'm fairly sure all the girls on this thread will empathise with how you're feeling. I have seen a counsellor on and off for the last few months and I always find myself talking about my friends. I had what I thought were rock-solid friendships before all this. My friends have done nothing wrong. They have been sensitive of my feelings (even if they can never really understand how hard this is) but I just can't handle their obvious joy - even though they try to play it down in my company. So I have cast them adrift and don't seen them. And so my life is shrinking and I feel powerless to do anything about it. Haviing said that I think more recently I have had a slight sense of acceptance that my life is just changing and that's OK... I'll find a new path.  But I really don't know. I totally understand the idea of a tangled necklace... mine feels like it will never come apart. I honestly don't know how I feel about anything anymore but I have a suspicion that it would only take one such conversation like the one you had with your friend last night for my current positivity to come tumbling down. 

It sounds as though you have been in this game long enough to know that these blows are to be expected but you WILL start to feel better. I'll be keeping an eye out for you on this thread squirrel.  

Janie xx


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## wobs (May 28, 2007)

Hi ladies

Seem to be two v similar threads going so sorry if I say something in reply to what was on other tread, little brain can't keep up   

Firstly VW - hi!  Remember you from veteran barbies.  So pleased to read your story.  Congratulations to you.  Sounds like the whole surrogacy in the USA was an 'interesting' an challenging time but you were rewarded for your patience and strength.  And then to have a 2nd baby too.  I bet you can't believe it sometimes.  Just lovely to read!   

JBT - well done on the exercise.  It is hard to get started and keep going isn't it.  I was swimming and jogging (well slwoly!) but then it got dark in the evenings and rain came etc.. and I have not done much for a while.  Going to dig out my thing I had for the playstation - can't remember what it was called but it was good - sportsactiv maybe?  Anyway hopefully I can get started again!

Squirrel - rant away.  I know i feel soooo much better when I offload.  It is hard when those close to us announce pregnancies etc...   Not sure if you want PMA or not but BTW your next cycle might not be disastrous...

Kat - pls stay.

AFM - doing ok.  Had a near moment yesterday - doing supply in a school and went into staffroom at lunchtime and there was a lady with brand new baby - being passed around and cooed over....However luckily for me she soon left to go and show the children....phew...Also easier as I didn't know her.

Anyway finding theses threads helpful in this section and nice to be chatting to you all.
take care all
Wobs


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## Nordickat (Feb 6, 2009)

Wobs I just wasn't sure whether it was ok for me to post that's all. If there is anyone reading who would rather I didn't post then please do say. I will completely understand. You can ask debs to tell me if you'd rather not be public about it. I don't want to upset anyone, this is a hard enough board to frequent as it is without people who might not belong.

Having said that, I need a break from all this IF talk. I deal with it much better when I ignore it than when I actually think about it. I'm probably just really tired (chronic back pain means not enough sleep) and will be cool about being childfree after a good nights sleep. I'm home alone though and dangerously tired so I'm going to duck out until I'm back from my holiday. I'm snowboarding for 10 days which is best served chilled and childfree ;-)

I've completely forgotten what I came on to say but i think it was vital ;-) Too busy twittering about myself lol. 

JBT - keep up the good work on your walking and thinking (thinking kind thoughts about youself though) xxx
Squirrel - big big hugs. Hang in there xxx
Wobs - I hope you continue to be doing ok for a while yet.

Love all round and have a good week one and all,
Katxxx


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## jamaicababytrying (Jun 29, 2010)

Hey Ladies

Squirrel rant away my dear, we have all had those days... I too can relate. I hope you feel better tomorrow.

Thanks for the support ladies re the exercising I just hope I can keep it up... Kat happy thoughts about myself not likely! but I do try to search for answers and I am not getting any so I am feeling very frustrated and don't know what to do! Anyway don't go a place we need you here! 

Wobs it was hard to start and even harder to continue! The weather has been tricky here in the evenings so sometimes it drizzles and you think it's going to rain and you don't go and it doesn't rain then you get mad at yourself for not going... a constant fight with yourself about something   But baby steps that's all I can say. What I hate is when I get together when dh's step sister and brother and she is as thin as a rail talking about dieting and exercising cause she "fat" had dinner with them last night and one of her comments was she is an obese woman trapped in a thin body   Really! I wanted to throw the crispy chicken in her face   And whenever we are together that's all they can talk about weight and exercise and you busting your ass and can't lose a pound! 

Anyway sorry for that... 

Gotta leave work now, time to go home make dinner and pull on my sweats and go walking. Gonna go have a chat with my doc as well re FET... not that I can afford to do it right now but I need to know what the possibilites are have a good one ladies...

See you all tomorrow


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## waikiki (Aug 11, 2010)

Hi everyone,

Sorry for ducking out on this thread for the past few weeks, but I've been having a really busy time, working late most nights.  Anyhoo, I know that lots of you are now posting on the other similar thread that has sprung up in this section, so I'll pop over there myself and join you if that's OK!

VW - thank you soooo much for taking the time to post your story, I had been wondering what had happened to you after you headed off into the surrogacy sunset, and I'm so happy to hear that everything has worked out so well for you.  Congratulations on your TWO babies!  

JBT - I also thought a lot about you too hun, I'm sorry that you are still in this awful IF situation like the rest of us, but am glad to have you back with us all the same.   

So with you two lovely ladies and Kat and Wobs, it's almost like the good old veteran barbie days!!  

So I'll pop over and introduce myself on the other thread now too, as sadly it sounds like there are more people than I realised going through this shall I/shan't I stop dilemma.  

 to you all.

waikiki


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## poppy12 (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi,

I know I may be a a little late here .. but your story really resonates with me and I think you're amazing, Waikiki!  I'm just contemplating doing a 4th cycle after the first 3 failed.  Of course this means paying and quite frankly this is going to be tough for me and my hubby!!.  I totally understand you feeling unoptimisitc about it all and I really feel that too.  I obviously want to enter the fourth cycle positively, but I'm a realist and having been through so much already, I'm preparing myself for this possibly not working.

I've come to the realisation that if this doesn't work I need big life changes, rather than living the life I would have done with children.  I'm fed up of everyone else being pregnant and my turn never coming and as you say others' children are now growing up. We may have no choice over fertility but how we decide to move forward from here I guess is up to us ... sounds very strong and brave of me and this morning I was crying in a doctors surgery!

Would love to hear from you or anyone else to share this rather unique 9and at times hideous) experience!
Big hugs to you all out there!
Poppy xx


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

I did 9 rounds of IVF and on the 10th round using a surrogate we fell pregnant.

We now have 2 babies.

I know what it feels like to start a cycle and feel depressed as you feel like the end of an ivf cycle will always be sad depression that kills you, to think there is no hope and feel utter dispair....

but what if.... like me.... you end up with your family!!


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