# Bleeding 9 days after ET with cyclogest



## Lisa x

I am hoping someone can offer me a little bit of advice.........

I had my first long protocol ICSI cycle in February this year.  I had one Day 3 embryo transferred and was prescribed 400mg cyclogest twice a day.  9 days after ET, I started spotting red and then 10 days after ET, I got a full bleed.  I tested and got a BFN and then tested on OTD nearly a week later and still BFN.

My second long protocol ICSI went exactly the same as the last cycle except I had 2 blastocysts transferred.  I really got my hopes up with this but then 9 days after ET, I started spotting again and the next day, as with the first cycle, I got a full bleed.  Another test showed BFN and testing nearly a week later on OTD confirmed the BFN.

I am looking to start my third cycle in January but I am so scared that the same thing is going to happen.  I am worrying that they are doing ET too late and my AF is already thinking of coming when I have ET, obviously I have no idea if this is the case but I cant help wondering why this is happening, why I am bleeding after 9/10 days and why the cyclogest isnt stopping the bleed.

There is another lady at the same clinic as me who the exact same thing happens to.  Please does anyone have any knowledge or advice that they can offer?  My clinic are brilliant but they have just said that I have had really good cycles but just been unlucky and that there is no other reason.  They said it cant be my natural AF being due as all of the drugs take over your body and cycle but I am driving myself wondering why all of the time  

I would really appreciate anyone taking the time out to offer me any kind of advice or information.

Thank you, Lisa x


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## SuperKitty

Hi Lisa, I don't have any answers for you but just wanted to give you a  .  Hopefully someone will have some advice for you (and maybe it'll help me too!)

I am kind of in the same boat (started bleeding 2 days after ET which then turned into full-blown AF on Friday - tested today as per clinic's advice and it was BFN) and very confused as everyone kept telling me the same - that the drugs would keep my cycle supressed.  So I'm left wondering what actually happened, and I'm worried that it will happen again next time.

Am thinking of you, hope you get some answers x


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## Lisa x

*SuperKitty * - So sorry to hear that you have been through it too, its completely heartbreaking  I have never heard about natural cycle over riding the IVF before. I hope you get some answers at your follow up, have you got one booked in yet? x

I really hope that someone has some advice to offer. Even if this has happened to someone else a few times and then with the same type of cycle they ended up getting a BFP, just want to see if I have just been unlucky twice or if something could be wrong. x


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## Vaudelin

Hi Lisa

So sorry to hear about your BFNs.  I am certainly no expert but just wanted to say that from what I have read it MIGHT be something to do with your progesterone levels?  You say you were on cyclogest but were you on any other progesterone support?  I was on cyclogest twice a day plus Gestone injection for my ICSI.  Were your progesterone levels checked regularly?

This is just a thought - I have no idea what else could cause the bleeding. Maybe someone else has some ideas...

xx


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## Lisa x

*Vaudelin * - Thank you so much for your reply. Sending you so much luck for this cycle for you! 

I discussed the progesterone with my consultant and he said that I was on the max dose at 400mg twice a day? I will ask them again on my next cycle because I also get a injection that I never seem to use in my pack too, some of the girls at my clinic get the one off jab and some get the pessaries.

I have also just had the Level 1 Immunes testing done and get the result back next week so wondering if something might show up there. x


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## SuperKitty

Yep, we have a follow-up booked at the end of October, supposedly with the medical director of our clinic (Bourn Hall).  It seems like a long time to wait  

Did you already have a follow-up?  I think that I'm definitely going to ask about progesterone as well; I was only on crinone once a day.  

If you felt like sharing, I would be really interested in what happens with your immune testing results - that was something that I was thinking of looking into, depending on what the clinic say.    But don't worry if not.  

Look after yourself, this is all so very hard and unfair


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## Lisa x

*SuperKitty * - That does seem a long time to wait, I got my follow up a couple of weeks after my BFN. It did help though, it helped me to accept my result a bit more. I would be interested to know what your consultant says about the progesterone and especially what he says as to why your natural cycle overtook your IVF.

I had an appointment with my GP on Tuesday morning, I took a list of the Level 1 Immunes testing and told him I was having ICSI privately and would he please do these tests for me as my consultant advised me to ask him. He had no problem, he filled the blood test form out for me with all of the tests I had mentioned and I went yesterday morning and had them done! They filled lots of tubes of blood for all of the different tests and I will get the results back in 7 days. I will be more than happy to post them here when they come back!

This is the list I gave my GP:

• Full blood count, liver function tests, Urea & Electrolytes
• Thyroid function tests (both free T4 and TSH)
• Immunoglobulin Panel (IgG, IgA and IgM)
• Autoimmune antibodies (must include anti-nuclear antibodies, thyroid peroxidise and anti-mitochondrial antibodies)
• Anticardiolipin antibodies (both IgC and IgM)
• Thrombophilia (must include lupus anticoagulant, Factor V Leiden and Panthrombin gene mutation)

Hope that helps! x


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## doddyclaire

Hi Lisa

Wow, your timings are the same as mine, and I had the same outcome as you too.  Both times i've bled 5 days before OTD and both times resulted with BFN.  Clinic did tell me last time to increase the crinone gel I was using to twice a day.  The consultant's theory on it is that I am too fat, I am a size 14, ok could do with losing a few pounds, but he made me feel as if I was 5 stone overweight.  
I am also going for round 3 in January, so am trying to lose weight but mostly I am having acupuncture this time round to try and improve things in there 

I wish you all the best for your next round

Claire

xx


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## Lisa x

*doddyclaire * - I think I remember you from the February Fancies and March Mallows thread! How wierd that our cycles have mirrored eachothers, the timings and the outcomes! I so so so so hope it is third time lucky for us both in January 

At a size 14, no way are you too fat. I am a size 14 too, I am 5'6'' and my BMI is 27. My consultant told me that no way would this affect treatment, I am trying to lose a few pounds for myself but he said that I just got unlucky, no other reason for it  I think I am going to do some research into Cyclogest pessaries v Gestone and see if that might be an option for me next time.

Wishing you all the luck in the world and so sorry that you are having to go through the heartache 2011 year too - roll on 2012!  x


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## Vaudelin

Doddyclaire - wow I can't believe your consultant said that to you!  That is quite outrageous.  Size 14 is the average size for the UK   

Lisa - Thanks for your support.  I have immune issues so am happy to discuss anything with you.  Have you seen Agate's wonderful FAQ in the immunes and investigations thread?  There is so much information in there.  You might want to look at level 2 immunes?  

Superkitty - hope you get some answers from your follow up.

xxxx


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## SuperKitty

Thanks Lisa, that's really helpful.  Think I'm going to have to have a word with the clinic!!

Doddyclaire, I can't believe they said that to you - size 14 is NOT fat!  Like Vaudelin said, that's the average size in the UK.  Vaudelin, thanks for that info on immune issues; I'm definitely going to look into it as well.

Looks like we are all going to have another go in January...perhaps we can keep in touch  

Now that the shock of the BFN has started to sink in a bit, I'm almost looking forward to having a few months where I'm not pumping myself full of chemicals.  At the moment I'm enjoying the novelty of being able to have a glass of wine ...although I need to get back on track again soon - I'm a 12/14 but am going to try and lose a few pounds as well, just to get my BMI a bit lower (am vertically challenged' only 5 ft 2!) to ensure the best possible chance in January.

Good luck ladies, stay in touch


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## doddyclaire

Superkitty - i'm an inch behind you then in the short **** club!!

Lisa - Hi, yes I remember you now, seems so long ago, Feb, but hey. if we're all on for Jan, then we can stay in touch!  I did put a post in Jan/Feb thread a couple of weeks back 

xx


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## lyns76

Hi Girls, just wanted to give you some encouragment.

As you can see from my signature i had a good few attempts before i was succesfull.  I had always bled before test date apart from my succesfull cycle and on that cycle i didnt do ANYTHING different so sometimes i think it is just the way it goes, if the little bubs havent implanted then most of the time nothing with stop your period coming.

If you can have immunes done then def go for it but please dont think that just because you have beeun unsuccesfull one or twice that it will never work.
I completely understand how hard it is to stay positive but i firmly believe that part of it is just down to luck - like rolling a dice and trying to get a number 6.
I have recently just had another BFN after my 4th fresh ICSI and even though i was on cyclogest and gestone injections for extra support i still didnt make it to test date - i only made it 1 week past transfer and my period came even earlier than it normaly does ( i done the short protocol this time).

Please dont give up hope.....my three year old son is a result from my third fresh icsi and lots of determination.

Best of luck,

Lyns
xxxx


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## lola33

Hi ladies and sorry about your recent BFN 

Very interesting thread. I just had a negative cycle  started spotting brown, very disgusting stuff 5 days after ET and I was on 3 cyclogest pessaries a day! I had 2 blasts transferred so was feeling pretty positive, but it was not to be  I have been spotting for for 6 days I think, just got my proper AF today. I wonder too why I started spotting so early on just 10 days after EC, it would never happen in my natural cycle, I usually get my AF 13-14 days after OV. Will be looking into gestone injections, although I heard they hurt a lot. 

Lyns- thank you for your encouragement and sorry about your recent BFN  I do agree with you that a lot of times it is just down to luck and IVF is very much a numbers game, a very cruel one.....

Lisa- interesting that you mentioned that you natural cycle can override the IVF drugs, I was on very high 
progesterone dose, so technically shouldnt even been able to get AF

Doddyclaire- how silly is that to say that you are too fat being size 14, well in that case so am I, can't believe a doctor would actually say something like that to you

Superkitty- good luck with the weight loss. I will try to loose some weight as well,  I don't really consider myself over weight, but the fact is that you body absorbs the drugs better the less fat you have, so I better get rid of some of those wobbly bits 

Good luck in the future everyone    I'm hoping to start cycle a bit earlier than you probably nov/dec would probably do another cycle straight away, but they wouldn't let me of course. I was on of those lucky girls that didn't suffer from any side effects from the drugs, so I dint find it too hard on my body.....but emotionally it was the hardest thing I have ever done 

Xx


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## Lisa x

*Lola33  * - So sorry to hear about your recent BFN  This is the trouble I think sometimes, we are too aware of when we would naturally be ovulating and bleeding and we cant seem to accept that the drugs have taken over so our natural cycle is now irrelevant. Like you, I dont really suffer the side effects and find the process not too bad, my second cycle hit me like a ton of bricks emotionally though and my clinic have said I can cycle again 21 days after my October bleed but I am going to Florida at the end of October and then fancy having a nice Christmas and starting new year with a new start! Sending you tons of luck for your next treatment! x

*Lyns76 *  - Sorry to hear of your recent BFN too  Im sure it is no easier even after a successful cycle, its just heartbreaking. You have more or less said what my consultant has, I just got unlucky. I respond very well to treatment and they have told me not to do anything different than I normally do next time as I did everything I should have. I agree, it was probably just bad luck. Im only having the Level 1 immunes because they are free, my consultant said he bets they come back clear! You are completely right though, its a game of luck, I hope we all get lucky next time! Congratulations on your third ICSI and getting your little boy! x

*doddyclaire *  - Will go and check it out, last time I looked I think there was a Dec/Jan thread but I dont want to be one of the last ones when everyone has moved on so I was waiting for Jan/Feb thread!  x

*SuperKitty *  - It will be lovely to all keep in touch and prove that this is just a game of luck! Good luck with losing a few pounds, its yet another hard thing that we have to go through but.......enjoy a glass of wine in the mean time! x

*Vaudelin *  - I think thats where I got my list from that I gave to my GP, makes for a very interesting read. My consultant told me that I didnt even need to go for immunes testing just yet, he said that he would advise me to wait a bit and advises people who have recurrent miscarriages to go for them and not people in my current situation. But then he said, if he put himself in my shoes, knowing the testing is free through the GP and having slight doubts in my mind of why they are not implanting, even 2 perfect blastocysts, he would go for them if he were me! I have gone for these, if they are all clear, it will ease my mind a little bit. If I am unfortunate enough to get any more BFNs, I will look at the Level 2 ones too! x

I kind of wish I had got them to check my progesterone levels when I started bleeding to see if the pessaries were even working or not!


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## lola33

Lisa- I will be going on holiday in October as well, either Cuba or Dominican Republic   It is very good idea to get a way from ot all after a failed cycle. The reason I'm a bit in a rush to start cycle again is because I'm going back to work after new year, so thought it would be nice to squeeze in a cycle while I'm still off work  Have a lovely holiday in sunny Florida 

Xx


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## MandyPandy

Hey hun - gestone all the way. 

I had cyclogest on the first cycle and bled early.  On the second cycle I used gestone and made it to OTD.

Sorry for the short post - I hope all is well with you.  

xxx


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## Lisa x

*Hi Girls!* 

*Lola33* - Did you book your Caribbean holiday? Cant blame you for wanting to have another go before going back to work, if that was the case for me too, I definitely would. Lots of luck for it sweetie! x

*MandyPandy* - How are you doing? I am definitely going to ask for a prescription for gestone instead of the pessaries. Hopefully it will do the trick! x

Hope everyone else is doing ok!

*LEVEL 1 IMMUNE TESTING* - Well my results came back, they didnt give me any actual figures of any of the tests but said that every one of them had come back as they should have and that there were no abnormalities in any of them at all. So now I am accepting that it was bad luck for me. Will ask for gestone instead of cyclogest next time and see how it goes! Praying for third time lucky! x x


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## lola33

Hi Lisa

Yes the holiday is booked we going on the 13th of October  can't wait. I had my follow up yesterday and mentioned brown spotting 5 days after ET. But was told that as long is it brown it should not indicate any progesterone problems but rather cervix being irretrtated by all the progesterone. If it was red blood then it would be a concern. Dr asked me when I got my AF after stopping cyclogest and it was 2 days after, so all in all it looks like cyclogest did it's job. He said that there is an option of using  Gestone, but injection are painfull, so I chickened out  we decided that next time if everythg goes well and I get to ET, I will come in and check my progestrone levels, to make sure they are not dropping, if they are, we will go for gestone then 

Great news on your immunes  good to know it's nothing there. Tbh I think most of the time it is simply down to embryo not developing and it nothing we can do about it except trying again, it is very much a numbers game. But of course there is some of us that do need immune tx and can benefit from it. Best of luck for your next cycle   

Xx


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## lyns76

hi girls,

on this last failed cycle i used cyclogest and gestone and still only made it to 7 days past transfer so i am def gonna ask about my progesterone levels on my follow up in October.

Just out of interest have any of you got to pay for your follow up

Mine is £120 which i am discusted about having just spent £4,000 on the treatment.

Something seriously needs to be done about the cost of fertility treatment - this causes me most of the stress - i would do ivf every few months if it wasnt for the costs - especially when we dont get any guarantees   

looking forward to seeing some good news on this thread soon.

Lyns

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## MandyPandy

lola33 said:


> Hi Lisa
> 
> Yes the holiday is booked we going on the 13th of October  can't wait. I had my follow up yesterday and mentioned brown spotting 5 days after ET. But was told that as long is it brown it should not indicate any progesterone problems but rather cervix being irretrtated by all the progesterone. If it was red blood then it would be a concern. Dr asked me when I got my AF after stopping cyclogest and it was 2 days after, so all in all it looks like cyclogest did it's job. He said that there is an option of using Gestone, but injection are painfull, so I chickened out  we decided that next time if everythg goes well and I get to ET, I will come in and check my progestrone levels, to make sure they are not dropping, if they are, we will go for gestone then
> 
> Great news on your immunes  good to know it's nothing there. Tbh I think most of the time it is simply down to embryo not developing and it nothing we can do about it except trying again, it is very much a numbers game. But of course there is some of us that do need immune tx and can benefit from it. Best of luck for your next cycle
> 
> Xx


Hey Lola  just to let you know, the gestone injections are not at all painful. They look like they should be but they're not. I found them no better or worse than the day to day stimms.


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## MandyPandy

lyns76 said:


> hi girls,
> 
> on this last failed cycle i used cyclogest and gestone and still only made it to 7 days past transfer so i am def gonna ask about my progesterone levels on my follow up in October.
> 
> Just out of interest have any of you got to pay for your follow up
> 
> Mine is £120 which i am discusted about having just spent £4,000 on the treatment.
> 
> Something seriously needs to be done about the cost of fertility treatment - this causes me most of the stress - i would do ivf every few months if it wasnt for the costs - especially when we dont get any guarantees
> 
> looking forward to seeing some good news on this thread soon.
> 
> Lyns
> 
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Blimmin' heck! The follow up should be part of the total fee (e.g., £4k for the treatment, or whatever) - so no, I've not had to pay for a follow up before. If I were you, I'd argue it. Also, have a look on your clinic's website as there should be a list of costs/charges. I haven't looked at one yet that charges for a follow up. There might just be a bit of miscommunication?


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## SuperKitty

Wow, that seems a bit unfair! The money is really what bothers me as well - the idea of near-£6,000 per go (which is what this first go cost us at Bourn Hall) is really really limiting.  We've got enough in savings to have a second go, but then what, if that doesn't work?!  It doesn't really help with the ol' PMA, does it    Like MandyPandy said, maybe there is some miscommunication - it really seems wrong to me that you would have to pay for a follow-up?

x


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## lyns76

Yeh i have def got to pay for the follow up unless i just want a letter summing everything up - its discusting really.

I have sent a harsh email and to be honest they have emailed me back to say they are sorry to hear that it hasnt worked and that they will pass my conserns on and be in touch with me.

I am still gonna have a follow up as i have got a 101 questions that need answering before i even think about starting again.
The progesterone thing is worrying me a little though so def need to see about that.

Thinking about egg share now if they let me   

Good luck ladies,

lyns

xxxxxxxxx


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## Suddin

Hello I had my first icsi treatmeant then I was bleed on 8day then I had a feel
is not going to work     I was crying then on the 10 day some thing want to push out then I push then it was a big clots then things was coming out I got so scared then I phone the nurse then she said it not going to work then I was crying why does everything happen to be I feel like unlucky person.


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