# Back from hospital and in shock...



## BJenkess (Feb 5, 2013)

Hi Ladies,

I need to vent/scream/seek advice and know you will all listen and help, so here goes...

Had my second appointment at the hospital today with my consultant to discuss our ongoing fertility issues, here's a bit of background...

I am 29 and husband is 30, I was diagnosed with PCOS around 4 years ago, didn't have any periods and lots of hormonal problems, a combination of dianette and metformin saw my periods return to normal and in Aug'11 I came off Dianette and ever since have had regular periods every month, have also been TTC since Aug'11.

We had our first referral in Feb and at this stage we were told my husbands sperm count was low at 5 million (I believe average is 15-20 million) and I was told I needed more tests and also advised that quitting smoking would help and to keep losing weight (ongoing battle).

After the first referral I had a hycosy examination and also a day 21 blood test.

Today was our second appointment where we discussed the test results which showed that my fallopian tubes were open/normal, my uterus was normal and that my ovaries were polycystic (which we knew anyway), was also checked for all STDs etc and that was all ok, as was my rubella. My husband had also done a second sample, which showed the same results, that his sperm count was low and 5 million again. My day 21 bloods showed I "didn't" ovulate, my levels were 27, apparently they need to be 30 or above to show I have ovulated.

We discussed that I had now stopped smoking and that both my husband and myself are still continuing to lose weight.

I was then very abruptly told... "The next route for you, is IVF" ... this left me in complete shock, second appointment and BOOM, you need IVF, this had never been mentioned to us before.

I feel so confused, maybe its denial and shock, but I'm left wondering why there aren't other options to consider before going straight in for IVF, especially if most of me seems to operate normally. I understand that the day 21 test showed I didn't ovulate, but this was the first one I have had and of course not every woman ovulates at the exact same time, would they not repeat these tests, esp as I have regular periods, signs of ovulation (mucus) and also do get positive results from ovulation kits?

She said that Clomid was not really an option as it doesn't have a very high success rate vs IVF and that she felt IVF was the best route for us.

I'm left wondering if it's more that my husbands sperm count is the bigger problem?

The biggest annoyance........... My BMI is 33, with this I am not eligible for IVF and it has to be 30 or below, which means I need to lose 2 stone, I have been dieting with Weight Watchers since January and have only lost 9lbs, despite being really strict on myself. I feel like I'm being told I am too fat to have IVF, I am not a skinny minny but I am a healthy size 14, I have always always weighed a lot for my clothes size, I am quite short - so I don't ever 'score' well on the damned BMI chart.

My head is all over the place, I feel like I have a million unanswered questions, confused as to why IVF is the only option and feel an immense amount of pressure to get my BMI to below 30 when I struggle to lose weight due to the PCOS.

Can anyone offer any advice or support... I know this is all a bit of a waffle and rant I just feel so confused.



x


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## Ellie-D (Apr 14, 2013)

Hi Bjenkess, 

me and my husband were the same. We went to the doctors after trying for 5 years to get pregnant. 
We were referred for tests. 

I had blood test on day 21 and no spike so they said I didn't ovulate. My husband did his sperm test and had 60 million sperm however also had an antibody.

automatically they said we had to have ICSI IVF and no other avenue could be explored. We were also very shocked as we have friends in a similar situation and they were able to try chlomid and IUI, but no we had to go straight to IVF!!

As for the BMI thing I am not quite sure. I would presume my BMI is around 30 but nothing was mentioned to me. After I was weighed they said nothing to me and my process has been that long that I have since gained weight through medication etc I however don't qualify for IVF on the NHS so had to pay for my treatment, weather they take weight into consideration when they are getting money from you is a different matter. 

So I can not be much help but I do sympathise with your situation, and hope that you get some answers very soon. Keep pushing them!!


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## ughhhh (May 12, 2012)

Hey
Sorry things are tough for u ATM.

I know exactly how u feel... The first time I was told we needed ivf I was so shocked that I cried in the appt. we also had a bit of male factor and I think unfortunately there are as many solutions to mf as there are for women

Some docs have such bad people skills its unreal.

I'm sure ppl have achieved pregnancy with that count (probs loads of the time they don't even know numbers aren't what they are supposed to be they just get lucky...only takes one so 4999999 to spare!!!)

Why don't u consider supplements for your dh, no smoking, diet, healthy living for a while and see how that goes. Gives you time to get your head around ivf. I think these things just take time to get used to. Maybe give yourself a time limit and then you will explore ivf? How long have u been ttc for?

Could you get onto the Nhs waiting list whilst u do the above?

Also, maybe see if you could get a second opinion?

Sorry just waffled a lot but please try not to panic as it makes stuff worse and use ff to air your grievances!!

Good luck xxx


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## BJenkess (Feb 5, 2013)

Thanks ladies, nice to know I am not alone in the shock factor - I did ask about clomid and IUI and was just told no, not a high chance of it helping... I wonder if they don't want to waste NHS money on drugs and treatments that wont have a high % of working for me, and go straight to IVF?

We have been TTC since Aug'11 - Since Jan we have both been on much healthier diets, hubby barely drinks, I have given up smoking and we have been taking pre-conception vitamins and power foods as such.

I guess I am at a bit of dead end anyway because I cannot even be referred onto the IVF waiting list yet because by BMI is 33, when my BMI is 30 or lower (basically when I lose 2 stone) I have to go back to my GP to be re-referred and then will be put on the waiting list, so part of me feels to plod on and keep trying naturally whilst trying to get my BMI under 30, which I feel is totally unachievable if my current rate of weight loss is anything to go by.

I told my dad today and he straight away offered to pay for me to have private IVF treatment, but I just feel like for me IVF has always been "the last resort"... maybe its denial but I didnt think our problems were big enough to need IVF - but then I guess its 20 months of trying with no success.

I am contemplating going back to my GP and just asking her to explain things to me in simple terms, I dunno what it is about "doctors" but I always feel I am not in a position to question what they say...


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## BJenkess (Feb 5, 2013)

ughhhh said:


> only takes one so 4999999 to spare!!!


This made me smile


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## Ellie-D (Apr 14, 2013)

It is so frustrating and a hell of a lot to think about and take it!! 

Even though we were paying privately we had a small wait in between blood tests etc. we were told ICsI due to my husbands problem with the anti body so that's what we did.

in this time my DH started taking vitamin E, vitamin Cand zinc. We didn't think they would help but when we went for egg collection we were asked to do IVF and ICSI with the 33 eggs they collected as my husbands sperm count had risen from 60 ish million to 91 million with no anti body present even before the sperm had been washed. 

Like I say I don't know if the vitamins etc were down to this but everything is worth a try whilst you think about your options or gain a second opinion. 

Good luck  x x


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## vickster_77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Hi BJenkess, I guess as the other ladies have said you're not on your own finding it a shock when being told IVF is your only option!

I'm guessing with them telling you IVF is your only option, the male factor has weighed very heavily on their decision rather than your ovulatory issues. As well as count did they mention anything about motility or morphology of the sperm??
We were told clomid with IUI is only suitable when male factor isn't involved, more so because if if the count is low and they then have to wash the sperm prior to IUI, the number of sperm remaining are not great for success, hence they don't reccomend.

If you're going to keep trying au-natural while you lose weight, to improve sperm count we were told by my husbands Andrologist that the only scientifically proven vitamins to improve sperm are high concentration anti-oxidants:
1000mg Vitamin C
400 iui Vitamin E
30mg Zinc
The multivitamins do contain these, but not in a high enough dose, so are best bought separately but work out a lot cheaper than the male ttc multivits.

Hope that helps and good luck with everything including reducing your BMI, our PCT also have this criteria, i think its unfair but I guess they can only go off what they have most success with. I find I can only lose weight if I have a goal to meet and so really hope you get there xxx


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## BJenkess (Feb 5, 2013)

Thanks vickster I will note down those vitamin mgs. 

They didn't say openly that the male factor was the over riding problem but I did think it may be that, tbh she wasn't very helpful in answering my questions and I had wished it was my normal consultant who I love he's so straight talking and makes things make sense. 

I asked about clomid and IUI and she just said "no, you need IVF". I did also ask if we could do anything to naturally increase sperm count and was told "no"

Just looking at hubby's results and it says...

Reduced count of 5 million per mil (normal greater than 15 million per mil)
Reduced motility at 50% (normal greater than 60%)
Reduced morphology of 2% (normal greater than 4%)
Tbh I don't know what motility and morphology means. 

Also states my day 2-5 hormone profile was normal (FSH 7.5, LH 2.


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## Ellie-D (Apr 14, 2013)

Its so frustrating, but it will be down to the issue with the sperm that they are putting you forword for IVF. 

We were so shocked as they didnt even want to investigate my tubes for blockages etc due to the antibody in my husbands sperm. This was especially frustrating on EC day as his sample was perfect!! 

It eill all work out for tou in the end, maybe try the vitamin supplements and see how you go on!!

Fingers crossed for you x x


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## BJenkess (Feb 5, 2013)

Thanks Ellie-D, I did think it would be down to the sperm and now after some of the responses on here and reading more online it makes more sense now, basically as I see it, clomid, IUI etc are not going to be much hope as they wont improve the sperm, but IVF of course selects the best sperm and the "hard work" is done in the lab so to speak.

Im ok with that, I can deal with whatever reality faces me if I understand it


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## Ellie-D (Apr 14, 2013)

Yeah I would say that was spot on!! It all gets a little more complicated MF comes into it, especially of it is to do with mobility. 

Good luck with what ever you decide and I hope you can get moving quickly!! 

X x


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## BJenkess (Feb 5, 2013)

Thank you xx


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## hiltra (Aug 16, 2011)

Hi BJenk

Not sure if I can offer much but just wanted to wish you luck.
My friend had PCOS as well as my cousin. They both had IVF treatement and both fell pregnant. My cousin fell pregnant naturally after her IVF treatment but my friend is unable to due to blocked tubes.

The low sperm count could also be an issue which is why they may be guiding you towards IVF.

I had private treatment in London. You are not required to lose weight in order to move forward with the treatment. The process took around 3-4 months 

Hope this helps a little
All the best 
xx


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## BJenkess (Feb 5, 2013)

Thank you Tracy!

I think we are going to look into the private options available to us as well and weigh up all the options. Thankfully it just so happens we have a holiday to Cyprus on Saturday, so couldnt come at a more needed time, 2 weeks in the sun to relax and forget about babies, diets and IVF lol

x


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## hiltra (Aug 16, 2011)

That's great - sounds like it is a well deserved holiday.

It does get stressful and you do find yourself banging your head a brick wall at times but you will get there.
Just do lots of research and choose the best option possible for your situation.

You will have to let us know how you get on and feel free to ask any questions.

Have a lovely holiday!
xxx


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