# Advice please - failed cycles - possible immune testing??



## NAT1DRAGONFLY (Jun 13, 2013)

Hi Ladies!

I often come on here to have a read (every now and then have a comment) and have found it extremely helpful over the years - usually after unsuccessful cycles etc to get hope for the next round.

My husband and I have been trying for 3.5 years now to conceive our baby - we have so far had 6 months of Clomid, one natural miscarriage, tubal surgery to cut one tube (told I have useless tubes (bulbous)), three fresh cycles of IVF and one frozen - the first fresh IVF cycle resulted in  BFP which ended in early miscarriage and the rest of the following cycles all BFN - all the cycles go very well and hit all the targets and get good amount of eggs and sperm quality looks good etc. but no success.

We have just finished our third fresh cycle (although this was our first private cycle at Chelsfield Park) (first two cycles were NHS at Guys) which resulted in BFN - retrieved 20 eggs, only six fertilised (told I have a thick Zona which wasnt picked up by the NHS clinic previously!?) so had assisted hatching thrown in too - ended up with two Grade 1 (told text book perfect) 3 day embryos put back - the rest we ended up culturing on to two Day 6 blastocysts but were told they were not good enough to freeze.

We are now thinking that we need to go down the immune testing route prior to starting another fresh cycle - firstly because my gut is telling me something is obviously affecting the embryos implanting and also before paying for another full fresh cycle makes sense to get all the pieces of the puzzle together.

Just wondered what advice anyone has at all on the whole immune testing side of things and general advice on the way forward really. Only tested last saturday so both me and DH are feeling pretty emotional after yet another BFN but trying to remain positive and look forward.

Thanks in advance ladies
x


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## K8O (Dec 21, 2009)

Hi

We have just embarked on immune testing.  Our last failed FET was March.  We referred ourselves to a private clinic and had a consultation in September.  We could have had the tests done straight away but it's expensive and it felt like opening another possible can of worms if you like.  We decided to do them and had tests yesterday.  Results for us take 5 weeks then the consultant will advise on the best way forward.  Now I've had them I think at least we will know.  

Good luck with whatever you decide

Kxx


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY (Jun 13, 2013)

Hi K

Thanks for replying. 

Good luck with your results. 

I was thinking the same re. can of worms but at the same time also think would rather just know so if there is anything then, from what I have read online, seems like most things can be sorted with either medication whilst cycling, or sometimes a course of treatment over a few weeks prior to starting another cycle. I think it's worth doing especially after going through a few cycles unsuccessfully even if it just ends up giving peace of mind that nothing is wrong I suppose it's worth it. A lot of the girls on here that have had the immune testing seem to be very pro having it done and hear a lot of good things for people who have the immune cycles of ivf. 

Fingers crossed for your blood results and future cycle with a BFP. 

xx


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## Thursdayschild (Oct 19, 2013)

Hi Nat,

I had a similar situation and a gut feeling that something 'wasn't right'. I went to a private clinic (we only got one free NHS cycle) and thought - may as well pay out now for the tests because if I have another unsuccessful round or another mc, I will wonder if it was immune issues... My reasoning was, each cycle is so blinking expensive anyway and the cost of the tests is also pricey BUT you only need them once and better to pay for one expensive successful round of IVF than three failed ones IF there is something that you could do...

Here I am nearly 7 weeks pregnant after an ivf round, taking prednisolone daily (first 12 weeks) and having intralipid infusions every few weeks (at the beginning) for raised NK cells etc, and on a low dose blood thinner (clexane 20mg/day) as I have low levels of protein C and protein S even though the other blood clotting tests came out ok. I also take levothyroxine for an underactice thyroid which always gets worse when I get preg so I have to up the dose. Please, if you haven't already, get your thyroid checked out and make sure the levels of TSH are below 2 and maybe even closer to 1. There are some useful posts about this elsewhere on FF.

However,... and here I would love some input from anyone else who might be reading and have an opinion because I really don't know and it's just a feeling... I am still worrying that there is an underlying problem - ie that the reason my NK cells are elevated and my immune system is acting up is because there could be an infection of some sort lingering up there, which the immune system is responding to! This has only occurred to me since starting this IVF round when i chanced upon Fertility Friends when googling something and joined. I started to notice lots of posts about 'hidden C' (chlamydia) and ureaplasma etc which some people were getting tested at a Greek clinic (sending menstrual blood samples by post). Now I'm thinking - IF this cycle doesn't work out (ie if it turns into a MC), i will definitely send off my blood sample to Greece to get these tests done and if necessary me & my OH will have antibiotics and re-test ... I know that the tests for hidden infections are A LOT cheaper than the immunes tests too. 

Just another thing for you to worry about!!  But seriously, I would read about it and see what you think. I wish I had heard about this hidden infections testing before embarking on the latest IVF as it was so ££ and I have an awful feeling that I will just get to the same early point as I did the last two times with natural pregs and MCs in the first 8 or so weeks :/ Of course, there could be all sorts of other reasons why I mc'd before, and they may both have been for diff reasons, and FINGERS CROSSED this one might be fine (will find out more on Fri at my 7 wk scan) so really this is just me thinking out loud but I wanted to share with you and anyone else who might be wondering the same sort of things. 

Take care, and good luck to you, Nat, and to K8O.
xxx


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY (Jun 13, 2013)

Hi Thursdayschild!

Thank you so much for your reply. 

Firstly congratulations! 

Funnily enough we have talked about this hidden infections test. We are going to see our Consultant next week to discuss all our options and going to mention this test as well. I heard about it on You tube with some women on there posting about Serum clinic in Greece doing the tests. Definitely a possible for us too. 

Try not to worry - sounds like you have done so well with this immune cycle of ivf and have got a lovely little BFP - you just keep positive and try not to think about any what ifs at the moment. Hopefully you won't have to even consider any more tests etc now as it's your time/turn. With all the extra drugs given during your cycle hopefully anything that was elevated or a problem is resolved and your little baby is nice and cosy. 

Thanks so much for all the information re. your medication and cycle. We are definately going to go for the full immune tests and if we can sort this hidden infection test too - think we are thinking like you that it's got to be worth paying a bit more now and throwing everything we can at this and the next cycle. 

Intralipids seems to be getting a lot of positive press and I noticed Zita West are behind this massively. 

I am a true believer in a woman's gut instinct being right so we are definately going to go with all these tests and give this next cycle all we can. 

Thanks again hun and wishing you a healthy and happy pregnancy. Hope your scan goes well Friday. 

Xx


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY (Jun 13, 2013)

Hi!

Just to let you know we had our follow up appointment with the Consultant - she was extremely helpful - our follow up appointment at Guys Hospital were near on useless and never actually learned anything about the failed cycles we had with them, which is a shame as the cycles themselves we were treated pretty well there. This follow up has been really helpful and we at least know where we are going for our next cycle in the New Year.

Firstly we are going to be having ICSI next cycle which we havent tried before - basically I produce a lot of eggs and DH sperm is fine also however we have only really ever had Day Three transfers - we did have one FET blastocyst but BFN. Our last cycle we had 20 eggs but only 6 fertilised. So I think the view is that hopefully ICSI may possibly help with our fertilisation rate and possibly/hopefully give us better fertilisation.

We are going for the immune testing with our clinic and also going for the Hidden C Test with Serum in Greece also (although I need to now wait for my next period which isnt for another 30 days) to send them a sample by courier (TMI sorry!!).

So our plan of action now is to get the immune test results back, get the result of the Hidden C Test back and then go and see a new consultant Mr Steer at Chelsfield Park Hospital with all the collated results with a view to moving forward with our next cycle of IVF with ICSI and possibly immune medication possibly.

Just thought would update.

Hope your all well

x


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## Thursdayschild (Oct 19, 2013)

Great, Nat! Sounds like a solid plan. 
Please let us know how it all goes. I think you are covering a lot of bases this way, and hopefully you will hit the jackpot soon! I've read of people even getting natural BFPs after antibiotic treatment for hidden c etc! 2014 will be your year. Good luck!!
PS Have you heard of IMSI (a higher resolution version of ICSI)?? Don't know if your clinic will do it, but something else to read up on! No idea if it is really any better as didn't go down the icsi route despite OH having pretty low morphology (but still 'normal').
xxx


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY (Jun 13, 2013)

Thanks.

Just feels like the right time to actually throw everything at it so to speak - get everything ruled out or dealt with where necessary before going ahead with another fresh cycle. The Consultant seemed to agree with us and said that after three fresh cycles which all appear to produce good Day Three Embryos its worth looking into matters a little further.

Just had a little look at this IMSI - think it looks like it is a higher magnified version of ICSI which is used more (I think) for when they find it harder to select good sperm. Thanks for that though - always interested in reading up on new things etc......

How did you get on at your scan? Hope all was well for you.

Take care

x


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