# Really confused-would like advice from others in same position



## marshajr (Jun 6, 2008)

Hi

Just had results of 2nd SA and it came back worse than the first. DH has had blood tests and we are waiting for the results of them. The consultant was not very tactful, said the results would not give us anymore anwers, and that there was no chance of DH fathering a child himself and that it would be by donor. It took us completely by suprise and has left us in a very strange place. We don't know what to do, I just keep crying, can't stop thinking about our situation. I realise others are going through the same but at the time you think you are the only one going through it.

XXXX


----------



## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Hey - don't give up - some consultants just love giving you the worst news possible.  

When my DH first had PESA the cons told us there was nothing there, but a week later the embryologist wriote to us to say there was enough for ICSI.

There's always TESE, where they take a biopsy, and besides, there's plenty you can do to get the sperm count up.

Do a bit of research and have a few months doing all you can to improve things, and change clinics if you can - you don't want anyone who doesn't suggest other avenues to you than simply donor.

On DH's second PESA in Turkey they found sperm straightaway, and didn't butcher him to get it either - it just shows what can be done. I had had him on various vits, and he had been having lots of tomato soup (highly recommended!) but I think it was actually the surgeon's skill more than anything.

Get a second opinion, get researching - even if there's only a handful of sperm there it's enough for ICSI, where they only use one sperm per egg.

xxxxxxx


----------



## marshajr (Jun 6, 2008)

Thanks for replying. I will do more research.

xx


----------



## she-hulk (Sep 21, 2006)

Hi there.  Could you expand a bit on the problem?  Is there a lack of sperm or is the issue the quality?  I can recommend the following to help with DH's sperm quality:

Tomatoes
Cranberry extract
Pumpkin seeds
CoEnzyme Q10

I had DH on Zita West's Vitamen as well.  Some consultants can be rather brutal so please don't lose hope.  I agree with Miranda on seeking a 2nd opinion.

Good luck.

xx


----------



## marshajr (Jun 6, 2008)

Low sperm count and low motility. DH SA was 3million on 1st test and came back even less on 2nd, was told after 2nd test that they found no sperm they could have used. 

xx


----------



## DizziSquirrel (Feb 15, 2005)

& Welcome to FF  Marshajr  
I have to agree with Miranda Yes being told there is no hope, sometimes needs saying, but tact and sensativity should be a given!  
there are other ways or tests to be explored first quiet clearly!
You will find plenty of evidence on here or improved SA on vitamins alone ( although it can take a few months) add Lifestlye and other dietary changes and you may get enough  for an icsi cycle or pesa/tesa
Your not alone hun, not now youve found FF 
I am going to leave you some direct links to boards here on FF - that you may or may not have found, I would like to encourage you to post in these areas to build friendships and support from members who really do have an understanding of your situation, already youve had some great replies I hope these have inspired you and given you hope 
You may find there is an active running thread for ladies having treatment at the same clinic as you check both the ICSI & IVF boards as we don't have separate clinic threads for each

FERTILITY INFO GUIDES
CLICK HERE

Male factors -
CLICK HERE

And don't forget to have a bit of fun while you are on FF and check out the general chit chat / jokes / hobbies area
G&B - Community Fun board
CLICK HERE

You can also chat live in our excellent chat room. 
We have a newbie night in the chat room every week (*Wednesday at 8pm* 
where you can meet other new members and get Chatrrom support 
and help to navigate the site and using all the functions available here.  CLICK HERE FOR INFO ON NEWBIE CHAT 

Take some time to look at the *help tab* too 

Check out the *Locations boards* for where you live & a site search for your *clinic* 

Wishing you Friendship  &    
 Dont forget to let us know how you get on!

If you need any help just ask! 
~Dizzi~


----------



## marshajr (Jun 6, 2008)

Thanks for your reply and warm welcome. Will be on here quite abit!!

xx


----------



## caz nox (Mar 9, 2005)

Hello, 

i just want to add that our very first appointment we were told that we weould never have kids unless we adopt or have ICSI - his SA was terrible. 

But, 4 years on and 4 BFP's I am sure they got it wrong! 

Best of luck!


----------



## marshajr (Jun 6, 2008)

Thanks for that

xx


----------



## ♥Saila♥ (Mar 27, 2006)

Hi Marsha,

That was a bit harsh of the consultant!! He could of explained your options! If it wasn't for FF I wouldn't know the stuff I know grrrr [email protected]@dy hospitals!!  

Have a ring round your local private clinics and ask for some info on TESA, sperm extraction etc.

Good Luck hon and don't give up  

xxxx


----------



## marshajr (Jun 6, 2008)

Hubby had 3rd   SA yesterday, he asked if there were any good ones could they be frozen straight away so fingers crossed. His blood tests came back and everything ok with them....phew! The nurse was really good with him explained everything to him, also asked about having a biopsy which is possible  .
Just have to wait for thses results and take it from there... 

xxxxxx


----------



## Pol (Mar 9, 2007)

Hello

Our consultant was very fond of showing us graphs of how sperm count goes up and down.  He had one particular graph which was of a super-fertile sperm donor and it showed that on several occasions over the few years it covered he was well into the 'infertile' bracket.  My DH's count went up and down (ok the highest ever has been 7 million, and there are motility issues etc as well, but still, it wasn't alwasy as bad as the very first test which was basically too small for them to measure which was a shock so I can totally empathise!) Just two test can't possibly show the whole picture.  My sister has been pregnant twice since she was told that ICSI was her only option due to two bad sperm tests (the first miscarried at 10 weeks, but this one is due in September and very lively!).  OK that's unusual, but please don't give up hope - there are things you can do to improve sperm quality in some people's cases, and it could just have been an off day! (I started a poll on this in the voting room if you want to look at the comments and ideas people put forward)

Wishing you all the very very best

Jx


----------



## marshajr (Jun 6, 2008)

Feel really low at the moment, keep crying  . Can't seem to think about anything else and its really getting to me.
Just want to get results from this last SA and then we can start making some decisions as what to do next.
I'm really unsure what to do, whether to use sperm donor or adoption. DH keeps referring to adoption, think thats the way he wants to go, I'm so unsure as I don't want to miss out of the experience of having a baby.
Its all so confusing, if only someone could just make the decision for me!


xxxx


----------



## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

But... you don't NEED to make a decision yet? You're putting the cart before the horse!

Give your man's soldiers a chance - have a go with ICSI before you start thinking donor, ok?


----------



## Pol (Mar 9, 2007)

If / when you want to know more about adoption the adoption pages on this site are very interesting in terms of giving real life pictures of the process.  It might be too soon to make decisions, but finding out about the options might make you feel a bit more in control.  Be very gentle with yourself - it sounds like you are really suffering from a kind of shock, which I can totally relate to as DH and I have been in a similar state at various points in the process (fortunately not at the same time ever so there was always a shoulder to cry on!)

Lots of  

Jx


----------



## marshajr (Jun 6, 2008)

Thanks for listening to my rant.
Think every now and then you need to just have a wobbly.

xxx


----------



## wouldbegreat (Sep 25, 2007)

Hi 

Here is a vit list i got from someone else it may help  

Also a good tip for the older ladies or for thos of us with PCOS is from your AF to ovulation take protein, you can get it from food or by it in drink form from a health shop, protein helps make better eggs and really does improve the quality of them.

Zinc 30mg daily  (both take)

Zinc deficiency can cause chromosone changes in either the man or woman, this will cause fertility problems and increase the risk of miscarriages. It also helps the cell division oof the fertilised egg. Also a lack of zinc will increase the risk of stretch marks.

SELENIUM 100MCG DAILY  (both take)

Selenium is a mineral, there are no signs of this being deficient until it is to late.
Selenium will help against chromosone problems, which can cause birth defects and miscarriages.
In men this is important as it helps to produce healthy sperm and reduces abnormal sperm.

FOLIC ACID 400mcg DAILY.

This is important, because Folic Acid deficiency is the most common of all, this is because the body cannot store large amounts. This will help prevent spina bifida, and it is very important it is in good supply before conception takes place. It is a member of the B vitamins, to produce the genetic materials DNA and RNA, you need enough folic acid and B12.


LINSEED OIL 1000MG  (both take)THIS IS THE SAME AS FLAXSEED OIL.

This helps against miscarriage and clotting, sperm mobility and low counts.

B VITAMINS 
B6 UPTO 50MG DAILY (Both take)

This will help balance hormones

VITAMIN B12  (Both take)
50MG DAILY

Helps with cell production and sperm counts and balance female hormones.

VITAMIN E 300IU A DAY  (just the man)

This will help the sperm to fertilise the egg. Vit E thins the blood also so don't let him have this if he takes anything else that thins his blood and defo no asprin with vit E. I personally just give my DH tne Falxseed oil caps.

VITAMIN C 1000MG A DAY  (Both take)

This will help stop the sperm from sticking together and help with ovulation.

If anyone is taking clomid, you really need this because it helps ovulation.

MANGANESE 5MG DAILY  (Both take)

This is a trace element and will help regulate your blood sugar level. Low levels of this can cause birth malformations.

L-ARGININE 1000MG DAILY  (Just the man)

This is an amino acid, the head of the sperm contains a very large amount of this nutrient which is essential for sperm production.
If you suffer from cold sores or genital herpes do not take this, as it will trigger an attack off.

L-CARNITINE 100MG DAILY  (Just the man)

Again another amino acid, it is needed for the normal functioning of sperm cells.So there we go, just thought i'd share that with everyone, it may just help and fingers crossed it does.

Wouldbegreat


----------



## Pol (Mar 9, 2007)

It's a good point - the first test that was really bad we had that problem (45 minute drive to our hospital) - the second time DH produced sample in the toilets there to get it as fresh as possible and it was much better.  The only thing is that the hospital said that technically they aren't supposed to 'allow' that although there is nothing they can reasonably do to stop you.  Our doctor had suggested it so we turned up assuming there would be a room set aside for it and the lady said there wasn't, so DH said where were the loos!! At the clinic there was of course a room set aside!

Jx


----------



## marshajr (Jun 6, 2008)

Had a letter with DH 3rd SA results this week. It says it was 0.14ml with 43 motility, got to wait until the 14 july for our next apt to discuss our options, however on the letter it says our options are very much as before, just keeping everything crossed and hope for a miracle! 



M  xxx


----------



## marshajr (Jun 6, 2008)

Just got back from our latest appointment. The consultant was much nicer than the last time. Went thro the results, and even though they are not good they are better then the last 2, as there was 43 motility and the last 2 had none. We are now on the waiting list which could be up to a year. So just have to get on with things until then.

Will keep in touch

xxxxxx


----------



## DizziSquirrel (Feb 15, 2005)

Hi Marsha 
Glad today was better than expected, keep mooching and posting on FF dont be a stranger, theres plenty to keep you busy during the waiting time  

~Dizzi~


----------



## marshajr (Jun 6, 2008)

Thanks Dizzi.
xx


----------



## nicolaw (Jul 15, 2008)

Hello - when my DH had tests by a urologist (not a fertility specialist) - they did a biopsy and told us that although there was a little motile sperm there, we had a less than one per cent of having a child.
After seeing a fertility expert who was horrified that the last urologist found sperm and didn't not freeze it, then told us that we had a chance with ISCI.  He did another biopsy and found a little sperm again and took five vials of it.  We are now having ICSI - no success yet, but all the elements are there.
Basically - don't give up and get a fertility expert to do the a biopsy rather than just a urologist.  Be warned though - for us it means that DH's ibido has lowered - no-one told us that what they took away was permanent and wouldn't grow back.  It is up to you to weigh up what is more important.  Once we have finished trying, he can then have medication to get that libido up again and hopefully all will have been worth it.
Keep trying  
Nicx


----------



## marshajr (Jun 6, 2008)

Thanks for that.
We asked about a biopsy but were told that because DH sperm count was so low that it probably wouldn't be any better. So we are just gonna wait until we get to the top of the waiting list and see what happens. I'm quite calm at the minute but nearer the time I will be anxious yet again.
xxx


----------



## marshajr (Jun 6, 2008)

Hi

Have decided to have a go one go private while on the waiting list. Got an appointment on 9th Oct. Fingers crossed.

xxxxxxx


----------



## DizziSquirrel (Feb 15, 2005)

October will be here before you know it


----------



## Pol (Mar 9, 2007)

Hello there!

Glad things are moving ahead for you - it does feel better to be a bit more 'in control' which is one of the good things about going private!

Very best of luck

Jx


----------



## marshajr (Jun 6, 2008)

Hi

Sorry not been on here for awhile, just tried to put things to the back of my mind for a bit, and try an be normal for awhile!!

However the time of our appointment is getting closer so its starting to creep back into my thoughts.

The time seems to have gone slowy.

M 
xxxx


----------



## DizziSquirrel (Feb 15, 2005)

Welcome back hun, Wishing your lots and lots of  for that appointment -
now get mooching and chatting espeially on your local threads


----------



## JJ1980 (Feb 20, 2008)

Hi - reading through this thread and feeling a bit angry that your consultant was so negative.  As far as I'm aware if there is any sperm there at all icsi is a definite option.  Hope all goes well with your upcoming appointments and wish you all the best.

Jen xxx


----------



## marshajr (Jun 6, 2008)

Thanks for your replies.

xxxxx


----------



## Joey_V (Jul 7, 2008)

Hi Marsha
Sorry to read about all you've been going through. We've been through similar and wanted to let you know in our experience private SAs yield better results than NHS ones. The NHS (in our case) let the sample sit around for hours before analysing it. Also, our (private) consultant told us that the NHS did not use experienced embryologists. The sample needs to be analysed by the skilled people who are actually carrying out the ICSI, and I would definitely recommend getting this done privately (guess it might be about £100 but well worth the ££).
Good luck. I know what it's like when you first find out, but I'm sure you'll start feeling more positive. Don't forget, it only takes one  .
Take care.
Joey
xxx


----------



## Wraakgodin (Jun 17, 2006)

Hi Marsha!

Welcome to FF!!  The other ladies have got there first and have offered you some excellent advice, all I can add is don't rush into anything.  Take your time and discuss it fully with DH and come to an agreement/plan that you are both happy with, whatever step you choose to make is going to be a big one and you both need to be sure and behind the plan totally.

Good luck for 9th October!

Sue


----------



## marshajr (Jun 6, 2008)

Went to appointment on thursday, discussed everything again, and was given a start date and timetable for treatment.
Start nasal spray on 10th november, if all goes to plan egg collection 18th december.
All systems go now!!!
Got a phone the next day to say we were near the top of the waiting list and that we won't be paying for this treatment!!!!


  
Mxxx


----------



## Hollybags (May 7, 2008)

I've been following this thread with interest! It's great news that you've started treatment! We had ICSI which worked first go! 
My friend also had ICSI and her consultant said so long as there were "10 good sperms" he could proceed. What a shame you were given such duff info at the beginning, very best of luck for the future!


----------



## marshajr (Jun 6, 2008)

Thanks for your reply!
My emotions have been all over the place.
Great to get some good news for a change, lets hope there is more to come!
 
Mx


----------

