# Secondary Infertility - Please help



## CurlyJo

Hi

Finally I have found somewhere to talk about my secondary infertility.  It is so difficult to get advice about this subject so here goes my story...
I have a 4 year old boy who is fab, we had no problems conceiving, infact we werent really trying for him, it just happened.  He was a total shock to the system.  We put off having another child as I didnt think it would be so difficult to have another baby, after all, my son was conceived with no problems.  How wrong could I be..  We have been ttc for over a year now (not very long compared to other people on this site but it feels like a lifetime), and I am aching for another child.

My friends are now on surpassing me and it gets harder and harder to be around them even though I love them to bits.  I feel so low and so alone, as most people (even family) think that I should be grateful for having a child.  My husband is very supportive, but I don't want to burden him with my feelings sometimes.  I just want to talk to people who understand.  My son has just started Nursery and I come home to an empty house.  Most of the playground is full of mums pregnant with their second or third, or with pushchairs with new babies.  Secondary infertility is so hard.  And the torment of that question "when are you having your next?" or "Isn't time for another one?"  How can this be happening to me (and husband) ...  

Anyway it took a lot of convincing my GP that I wanted further investigations, my husbands sperm tests have come back fine.  I have just received my first hospital appt for me on the 14th October, does anyone know if you can get NHS infertility treatment if you already have a child, or does it have to be private?  

I am trying acupuncture this friday, hoping it will help.  My cycles are regular but very long 34 - 39 days (too long to wait to see each month if you might be pregnant).  Although when I was on the pill 28 days like clockwork (well it would be wouldn't it).

Any help, advice or just some tlc would be gratefully appreciated.  Thank you for listening to my story....


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## rtsaintly

Hi CurlyJo,

I have secondary infertility also (daughter 15). I am no good at giving advice on the technical side of things (I dont quite understand my own treatment ) but I do know that whether you are entitled to fertility treatment on the NHS is dependent on your local Primary Care Trust (PCT). Here in Lincolnshire they have very strict criteria on entitlement, but other Trusts are far more progressive. It is the post code lottery writ large unfortunately. you might find the link below useful - as it says, contact your local PCT to findf out there rules.

http://www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/articles/article.aspx?articleId=889

Will keep my fingers crossed for your appointment,

Rachel xx

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


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## professor waffle

Hi CurlyJo

I'm so sorry you are going through this but you're not alone on here. 

As for treatment on the NHS I would say most if not all PCT's won't give IUI or IVF for secondary infertility but 'may' try clomid with you. There is usually a long list of people without children waiting for IUI & IVF & they get priority. Hopefully it will be something straightforward with you & you won't need tx


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## jules76

Hi there,

I'm so sorry to hear your story and can completely understand everything you are saying/feeling.  I could have almost written it myself!

I have a daugther Jasmine who will be 5 next month.  I am 32 and my husband is 38. My husband and I have been trying for about 3 years now.  Like you we had no problems at all conceiving Jas and feel completely dumbstuck with this 'fertility' issue.  Like you all my friends I made when pregnant with Jas have gone on to have their 2nd and 3rd babies and it is utterly heartbreaking.  The questions from others about when we are having another have actually stopped now, which sometimes is even more upsetting than people asking!!  I guess they must think we don't want anymore and this upsets me so much.  Jas has just started school so like you I have all those feelings which go along with that.

After all the tests etc we have been diagnosed with unexplained infertility which is also hard to deal with when you are someone who has to know WHY?!!!!!!.  There is no NHS funding in Gloucestershire for couples with children and this does seem to be a familiar pattern aroudn the country.  Earlier this year we actually started IVF treatment and then had to cancel it as I found out I had conceived naturally (talk about timing!) but sadly miscarried at 8.5 weeks.  

I'm not sure that I can give you any advice at all but talking about it helps.  My husband and I couldn't talk about it for at least 18months and it affected our relationship hugely.  We were ignoring it hoping for something to happen so that this nightmare would end.  Since then we have opened up to one another and a few members of our family know and closest friends.  Some people say the wrong things and this upsets me and I have learnt to just talk to the people that seem to understand.  I am determined that this issue won't affect Jasmine's childhood and I want to be a happy loving Mummy to her.  There are people much worse off than us and I think ourselves lucky to have her everyday.  I could only have said that (and meant it!!) in the last 6 months and if anyone were to have said it to me I would have probably bitten their heads off!!  

I could go on forever but won't.  I just felt I had to respond as I feel/felt exactly the same and know it is so hard to keep smiling and upbeat when really you want to go into a cave and cry.

I really wish you well and send you all the luck in the world.

Love Jules xx


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## CurlyJo

Hi Rachel, professor waffle and Jules.  I have responded to you all below:

Thank you for all you advice and support, it has helped me a lot today.  Just to know that complete strangers care has really boosted me.

Hi Jules, 

I feel that are paths in life are very similar, I to am 32 and my husband is 34.  I know exactly what you mean when you say you are someone who needs to know "why".  My whole life, when I have wanted something I have always worked so hard to get, but this is just so hard to take in as I need to know the answers.  Gutted about the NHS funding but I can understand why they don't.  I will just have to start saving (i am a girl who loves to spend) so this will be quite hard, but I am prepared to do anything now.  I am so sorry to hear about your M/c, that must have absolutely devasted you both.  I too, am trying to be a great mum to harry, but sometimes I find myself really clingy to him, I shower him with so much love and I feel like he is my best friend.  I worry that it may be too much.  Some days I feel so lucky that I have him, but other days I long for another sibling for him - He has asked for a brother of santa, how do I answer that?  

Thanks for help and support.  Joanne

Hi Professor Waffle

I have been looking into Clomid, and was hoping that my GP would just prescribe it, but they wanted me to see a specialist first.  The side effects worry me as it says that your tubes can twist with many others problems,  Have you tried it?  I too am hoping that it won't come to this, and I am praying for a miracle.  Its funny I never appreciated what a miracle it really is until you are in this position.  Thanks for your help and support.  Joanne

Hi Rachel

Thank you for the web link, which I have looked at and has been a great help that I never even knew about, espeically clinics in my local area.  Im starting to save now and hope we can get through this.  Keep me posted about your treatment, I would love to hear how you get on.  Thank you for your help and support.  Joanne


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## jules76

Hi CurlyJo,

I also find myself being over clingy to Jas.  It's just that we now realise how extra precious they are.  Sometimes I think I must tell her I love her numerous times a day.  I know you can give too much love and I'm consious of this.  I also beat myself up about her getting spoilt.  She is the only grandchild on both sides even though she has 3 uncles!  I think it would make the situation alot better at family occasions i.e christmas if she had some cousins running around as at the moment all the attention is on her.  If I think about it for a while I could cry my eyes out so I do try and blank it all out alot of the time.  I go through phases reading posts on this website (i rarely post, yours just struck a cord!) as sometimes I just feel I need a complete break from it all.  I grew up with two brothers and just can't imagine a childhood without siblings.  

Poor you having to deal with Harry question about getting a baby brother.  It just tears at your heartstrings doesn't it.  A while ago Jas told everyone at nursery that she was getting a baby brother and one of the mums asked me.  Jas has also asked me when she's going to get one. It's very difficult to explain and depending on your mood at the time difficult emotionally to answer without crying your eyes out in front of them.  I find it very tough around my period and get very tearful.  Bloody hormones.  

I have tried acupuncture, reflexology and numerous herbal supplements but feel alot more relaxed about the whole thing now so stopped them all.  I actually found it tough going somewhere and having to focus on 'the problem' for a whole hr or whatever and I actually felt worse afterwards!!  I think I reached my 'therapy threshold'!!!!

I hope the saving goes well.  It is just so expensive. Fingers crossed it won't even have to come to that for either of us.

Take care

Jules x


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## Jane D

Hi Curly Jo

There are a lot of ladies like us on the secondary daily messages, why dont you join us?  I have dd 3 years conceived naturally and have been ttc number 2 for 2 years now.  It is awful going to school and feeling that everyone is moving on to new children.  I feel exactly the same way.

I donot wish to scare you, but i had a bad experience with Clomid.  I was on it for 6 months when I realise now, I should have gone for IVF straight away.  At your appointment in clinic they will test your hormones - fsh and lutenising hormone the ones controlling egg production and release.  I got 10 for my fsh which is not brilliant, yet they put me on Clomid. they did not monitor my fsh and in December 07 my fsh came back as 20.  The nurse said clomid did not do this.  A result of 20 is too high for IVF, so I did 2 IUIs which were bfns.  In my heart I knew that was it, but I have now opted for donor egg ivf which has a good chance of success.  Please do not be scared, but ask abut your results and the best possible treatment for you.  The NHS has a one size fits all mentality using the flow diagram of clomid six months, iui then IVF.  I hope this site will empower you and inform you of your choices.

Good luck

jane


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## SUSZY

Hi Curly Jo  (jules, Prof Waffle and RAchel)
Like Jane said why not pop over to the 2ndry daily message board- there are lots of us in the same boat.
We all have one child and have had various kinds of treatment after being told mainly that we have unexplained Infertility.
We all have the same emotions of being over protective and indulgent with our only children (there is an excellent book I am now reading that was recommended on the other thread about the seven most common sins of parenting an only child) but its more the pain of having to mix with other "fertiles" we call them who have no idea of the pain that we are going through.  I have witnessed about 40 babies from my anetenatal groups alone as they have had second and third babies and tried to smile through it while my heart was breaking, I have had all the inconsiderate and hurtful comments and friends who I thought were good ones just carried on their lives with their second ones - walking laughing and joking down the streets off to Toddler events while I was left feeling bereft.  The past four to five years have been the most painful esp with ds starting school - he is now in year 2- but it does get easier and I have built up a new life and have met some amazing women on here that keep me going.  I have had my fair share of ups and downs having experienced three m/c my last one was in Jan after a an ivf with a known donor worked but stopped at just over 8 weeks although I did not find out til the 10 week scan.  I have now just started my 2weekwait as had two frosties that went back in on thursday.
I have tried everything to no avail and like Jane would recommend against Clommid - I wish we had never gone on it and had gone straight to ivf with my own eggs but its too late now.  The side effects were that you get very upset every month when your af comes and that you can get quite moody and extreme - I wish I had not wasted precious time waiting for appts etc to go on that.  The trouble is there is a pattern to the whole thing and you have to get referred to a Consultant from your Dr - if you go private it comes quicker - if you have a child or are over 40 you get no free IUIs or IVF but Clommid is free.  I think clomid might work if you dont ovulate or they know the reason but now if its unexplained.  I would recomment IUI or IVF but its a huge decision and you have to be ready.  I was not ready when I went in Jan 05 but that was before I had found Ff and know what I know now.
you need to explore this website and speak to many people.
i hope this helps.
I just wish we all lived closer so we could help each other more.
i hope that has helped and I have not just done a brain dump like my dh says.
love
susie


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## CurlyJo

Hi Jules, jane and suzy

Thank you for you lovely responses.  

Sorry I haven't posted but somedays you just need some time out.  

Well I had my acupuncutre on Friday and he is going to try and regulate my cycles.  I felt really positive on Friday and it actually focused my mind onto something different, and I felt so relaxed but that was probably because I had nothing to distract me.  Well I am day 31 in my cycle and I think I am coming on, which is a good think as it is not my usual 35 - 39 days which must have meant that something has worked.  I don't feel so sad, but I think it is because I know I have my appt on Tuesday at the hospital.

Its strange though as my husband, who is normally the supportive one, has been so upset that I am getting my period  as I think he was convinced that we were going to get pregnant this month.  So it is me keeping his chin up this month.

Hi Jane

You haven't scared my about Clomid, its just so good to read other peoples experiences so it gives you more information to make your own choices.  I have to say I did'nt know that they dont do IVF if you FSH is 20, why did the nurse say it wasn't Clomid, it must have been?

Hi suzy

I have just had tears in my eyes, im very hormonal.  I will pop over to the 2ndry daily messages, do I just open a post?  How do you do you profile (the pink bit at the bottom of your post).  I love the name "fertiles", i call them the "yummy mummy's" but I like the "fertiles" better lol.

I feel like I have met some amazing people already, and I have been overwhelmed by the support.  It's so good to know that I am not alone in my thoughts, and that other people feel the same way I do.  

Its strange what you say about IVF being a huge decision, because some days I psyche myself up that this may be my only path (but I struggle to picture me going through it, I thought this only happened to other people not me), then other days I pray that some miracle will happen.  

I wished we all lived closer too.  Joanne

P.s  you didn't brain dump me, I love to hear about other peoples feelings.


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## Jane D

Hi Curly Jo

I am glad that our posts are informing you and helping you.  
From my understanding and experience, clinics have a cut off point for FSH readings in terms of acceptance onto IVF treatment.  For my clinic it was  13.  There has to be a cut off point somewhere, the point where response would not be sufficient to harvest sufficient suitable eggs.  There should be not much of a fluctuation for normal people, month to month with fsh.  Unfortunately for me, the ovarian reserve has just diminished  more quickly than it should.  Basically at 37 years I have the fsh reading of someone at least 10 years older. I have no expplanation for this.  From June to December the reading doubled.  My nurse says clomid did not do this, but I am not so sure. My body got used to the drugs and then got lazy.  Similarly i took drugs for IUI in Jan and got 2 eggs.  In June, I did twice the drugs and only got one egg.  At this point I accepted I needed donor eggs and have got stronger every day thereafter.  All this slide into infertility I 
believe happened after birth of dd when I was 34.  Periods got very heavy, I suffered a m/c the following year (2006) and then in 2007 periods got shorter. The only thing that upsets me is I knew I did not have time to lose and started trying for number 2 in 2006 at the age of 35.  i thought i would have got another one in the bag before it was too late.  I dont want anyone to go through this, so I am happy to speak to anyone about fsh or possible fsh issues.


I really hope you can go for IVF soon, if that is what you really want.  there are so many helpful people on here so feel free to ask anything

Good luck

Jane

x


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## Pand

Hi hun,

I think you are starting to realise you are not alone chick.  Come and talk on the daily messages thread.  There are loads of women who are or have been in the same position and we talk all the time about how we feel, the difficulties of coping with SIF or just generally rant and rave about the injustice of it all.  I have made some very good friends on that thread and wouldn't have coped with the last three years without these wonderful ladies.  Come and be part of the gang and we will help you through all of this.

Lots of love

pand


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## sentor09

Hi
I read all your stories and felt like people actually understand how I feel.  We have been trying for 8 years (we have a 10 yr old) had, clomid, 3 IUI, failed natural route IUI etc and are about to start IVF which we can only afford one attempt.  I ache for a child and I don't feel complete.  Will be 40 in Sept so time is not on my side.  People have stopped asking when I will have another and I just get painful looks as people know I want another child.  I hate the playground but thankfully only visit it once a week due to work.  It has taken over my life!  Sentor x


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## nikkistar

hi i have been told becuase we already have a child and i am with same partnet we would need to pay but i think it depends on the area you are in


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## samanthaH

Hi guys,

we too are in the same boat, i have always wanted a big family. I have a 6yr old that I had when i was 40 and i long for another child.Im 46 now and time is running out!!! I am looking for an egg donor as that is our only hope. I think we will need to go to athens or spain to do it. Has anyone any info on this? I feel for you, i also hate going to the playground and am jealous seeing women with 3-4 kids with them, I also ache for another child this is our last hope as i am menopausal now!!!

Good luck to everyone goodluck to all of us!!! xxxx


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## mariabelfast

I live in nireland. here everyone is entitled to 1 cycle of ivf on nhs regardless of circumstances. still on waiting list 3 yrs after referral. having private icsi treatment at the mo . Hope its ourv time dd is 8 now and really feels it that shes only 1 in her class without a brother or sisiter. If anyone else tells me that im cruel for not giving her a sibling


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