# Where can 40 year old women go using own eggs to get higher chance of success?



## hobiegirl (Sep 1, 2005)

Hi,

I'm about to have my second IVF cycle at Woking and feel like I want a plan in place if this cyle doesn't work..

I have looked around online to see if clinics abroad have different techniques and it seems there are some who screen embryos and de-fragment them.
Has anyone any experience of going to a clinic which has better results than the UK and more advanced techniques?

I really am so unsure what to do next and the fact that I will be 41 next month is not helping!

Thanks!


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## safarigirl (Feb 23, 2005)

Hi Hobiegirl
I dont have any information to help you, but its a really itnersting questin you pose - alot of us on abroadies are in our forties, so they might have some further info for you, or have looked into this - but perhaps you can email the spanish clinics to see what they say about the other techniques you mention, and give their statistics on ivf for over 40's.  I am at Ceram and you can contact [email protected] who might be able to answer your question, perhaps tell you of tests to have done etc.  You can also get the details of IM and IVI which lots of others use and see if they can help you.
Wishing you lots of luck


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## longbaygirl (Aug 19, 2004)

Not abroad, but the ARGC in London has good success with 40+ ladies using their own eggs.


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## RSMUM (Sep 3, 2003)

We gave ARGC our best shot, with high meds, Viagra, Heparin, IVIG and Gestone we got two eggs and only one embie..my FSH has been as high as 19 and once as low as 4.7  ..sadly I m'c'd but I agree with Longbaygirl..  

All the best of luck to you

XX


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## hobiegirl (Sep 1, 2005)

Thanks everyone for your replies!
I will email spanish clinics and find out..
DH and I had a meeting last year at ARGC.Their stats are impressive and we only settled for Woking cos they seemed the next best stats and easier for us to get there.
Am I right in saying that ARGC need to see you every day during a flare cycle?
If so I think I would have to live up there for the duration as it would be quite a strain going up and down from the Southampton area each day especially if feeling grog..
What did you do, Longbaygirl and Rsmum?

Best wishes to you all


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## longbaygirl (Aug 19, 2004)

Hobiegirl - I went to Isida, Kiev. 

My treatment cost 3,500 Euros. This was for a proven donor (i.e. already has normal, heathy children), and all the eggs (no sharing), and ICIS, and freezing any leftover for a year. I had five (of the 10 fertilised embies) put back. It was my first DE IVF and I got my twin boys.

Good luck


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Hi Hobiegirl,

I have researched this extensively and have ended up going to two UK clinics (London Fertility Centre and the Lister) and Cornell in the US all at age 44-44.5.  I got pregnant with my own eggs on all cycles but sadly miscarried due to possible age factor coupled with 2 clotting and 1 auto immune disorder.

I personally would recommend going to 

a) either the top clinic(s) in the UK (i.e. ARGC).  Carefully check out live birth rates for over 40s and shop around.

b) Go for it and go to one of the top two ivf clinics in the US - i.e. Cornell in New York City or CCRM in Colorado.  Their success rates for over 41-42 are between 18 - 30% depending on age and diagnosis.  They are much more successful than any clinic in Europe or UK.  They cycle hundreds of women per year and I would definitely recommend going. 

The other big advantage of going to the States is that you can have multiple embryos transferred (I had all 6 embryos replaced to get 1 pregnancy) which is essential once you are over 40.

It is more expensive and more effort (you have to obviously stay over there) but I did this by myself and it wasn't difficult.  It was worth it.

You need a top class ivf clinic with great results and a world class embryology lab.  

I would also recommend as much testing to eliminate any possible problems before proceeeding.  e.g. have you had uterine checks, sperm assays, any implantation failure checks e.g. thrombophilias, immune issues, thyroid, insulin resistance, karoptyping etc.


Wishing you the best

Daisy
xxx


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## hobiegirl (Sep 1, 2005)

Thanks Longbaygirl and Daisy for your replies!
Longbaygirl-Congrats on your twins!Do you know if the clinic in Kiev has cutting edge techniques like PGD, assisted hatching etc and did you have these done?Are there success rates down to allowing lots of embies to be replaced?

Daisy-I'm sorry that despite being so near to succeeding you have m/c.I really hope next time you are successful.
Your info really helps as I have browsed around on the net and came to the conclusion that the Colorado clinic sounded good.I didn't know about Cornell though..
Where did you get all your tests done?I had some done at Woking but not as extensively as what you've had done.I agree that I'd rather know about any other lurking problems from a test rather than find out after failing another ivf cycle!

Best wishes to you both


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## bigJ (Mar 4, 2005)

Hi hobiegirl

I  too am an ISIDA donor egg success (thanks to Longbay girl who recommended them to me last year after my m/c from IM Spain).  After the m/c I was paranoid about pre- testing, and I asked ISIDA about that.  They can do PGD for specific factors (so genetic carriued diseases or Dwons for example) but are clear on the fact that with old eggs PGD can't rule a lot of issues out, and some things only develop once baby is embedded in the womb and starts to evolve, hence higher m/c rates in 40+ with own eggs.  The embryologist doesn't believe de-fragmentation is a good idea.  I knwo that IM Barcelona dono't do that either.  As for assisted hatching, my research showed mixed views on that, as a healthy 2 day embryos and a well prepered endometrium is the best and nearest to nature.  As has been said already here what will increase you chances are:
1. Good preparation (all the screens you can get for you immune issues (very important, mine were completely unexpected immune thyroid issues), blood flow etc, and dh sperm not just spermiogram but poroper meitotic studies, EM studies etc - I have addresses if that helps although not UK)
2. Good preparation with vits (we took Zita Wests formen and for women prenantal vits)
3. Clinic with good success rates obviously
4. The chance to have more embies put back - we had 4 of our 8 embies put back and I have a singelton pregnancy

It all depends how much your own eggs are critical to you and how much you can afford emotionally as well as financially.  Miscarriages are not only devastating, they take time to get over biologically about 3 months, emotionally , well never really.

hope that helps

bigJ


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## longbaygirl (Aug 19, 2004)

Hi Hobiegirl,

Agree with everything BigJ has said, apart from using the vits. I took nothing but folic acid before starting tx. but I'm sure the healthier you are the higher the chances of success.

Agree with Daisy with regards to the number of embies to put back, there is research to suggest that for the 40+ age group you do need to put back more.

See http://www.infertileworld.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=102&Itemid=1

Good luck

Joy


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## hobiegirl (Sep 1, 2005)

Thanks for your replies!
BigJ- Congrats on your pregnancy!ISIDA sounds like a good place to go.
Logistically, how did you find it being treated abroad?
I am having IVF at Woking again starting next week and will be asking to have the max of 3 embies put back.It sounds like 4 + would be better from everything I've read so will definitely be heading abroad for tx.

Longbaygirl-thanks for your comments too.Will look into ISIDA..

Best wishes

Chris


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## weeble (Dec 5, 2005)

Hiya Chris
My clinic do something called Cytoplasmic transfer, which is; 

'Cytoplasmic transfer 
In women, we expect low quality of eggs, cytoplasmic transfer can be indicated. Using the same procedure like ICSI, donor cytoplasma (without genetic information, but full of unknown cytoplasmic facrors like enzymes, mitochondria and energy sources) could be aspirated from donor eggs and transferred to recipient¨s egg. These way cytoplasma could be improved and ensure proper chromosomal distribution and contact. This method is not so successful as egg donation, but work with woman's own genetic material.' 

Might be worth looking at. 

Love
Weeble


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## three_stars (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi bigJ,
I read your post and was wondering about this :
"and dh sperm not just spermiogram but poroper meitotic studies, EM studies etc - I have addresses if that helps although not UK)"

I have another ivf coming up soon and partners sperm has gone quite bad.  He has gone now for a blood carotyping.  The results take so long so will only get  a few days before the egg Retreival.  What would be meitotic studies and EM? Am I missing something here?
Thanks
Bonnie


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## hobiegirl (Sep 1, 2005)

Weeble-thanks for your info about cytoplasmic transfer.I have never heard of it so will be looking into that in case this ivf cycle fails.Good luck to you with your tx.Don't give up!

Bonnie-Glad to see it can happen with over 40's.Gives me hope! 

Best wishes to you all

Chris x


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## mj (Dec 21, 2002)

hi Hobiegirl

Just my word of caution on clincs with high success rates for over 40s. This is completely my view, so I could be wrong and I don't want to put the dampers on anything - but I get the strong impression that clinics like the Lister have higher success rates because they deal with immune issues, unlike NHS hospitals. So unless you have an immune issue I'm note sure that they benefit you any more than an another respectable clinc.

I could be wrong, but I just wanted you to know all angles/thoughts.

Good luck
Mandy xx


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## nuala (Jul 13, 2005)

Hi,

As a patient at The Lister it is my understanding that they have higher success rates for Over 40's as they will take on cases up to 45 when practically all other clinics (with the exception of 2 that I found) would not even give me an appointment when I was 43!!

Whilst we have not been successful I can only praise highly the treatment, care and advice we have been given throughout.

Nuala


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## mj (Dec 21, 2002)

Hi Nuala,
Yes you're probably right about that, I hadn't thought about the age limits the clinics set. 

Hobiegirl - I too thought the Lister was a very good clinic with lovely staff. What I was trying to say is that because they offer immune issue testing and treatment (which lots of clinics don't), they help to solve more fertility problems. I hope that makes sense.

Mandy xx


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## amies (Apr 19, 2005)

Hi Weeble, 
I am fascinated by your mention of cytoplasmic transfer - I wonder where can I get more information about this and if you might be able to tell me what clinic are you referring to, much love, amies


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## sandee2002 (Jun 24, 2003)

Hello everyone,

Can you tell me if immune tests at the argc are routinely done or do you have to ask for them and are they expensive?

regards
sandy


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## itsmyturn (May 30, 2009)

daisyg said:


> Hi Hobiegirl,
> 
> I have researched this extensively and have ended up going to two UK clinics (London Fertility Centre and the Lister) and Cornell in the US all at age 44-44.5. I got pregnant with my own eggs on all cycles but sadly miscarried due to possible age factor coupled with 2 clotting and 1 auto immune disorder.
> 
> ...


Daisy your inbox is full, i need to pm you!!!! thx


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## Lyzbeth (Feb 7, 2008)

Such a great thread, I know that when you hit 40 there are so many negatives thrown at you but it's great to read that there are clinics happy to treat us and be honest about our chances rather than just dismissing us... when I was being treated by the NHS my consultant told me that IVF would be a waste of money as I wouldn't be able to produce enough eggs... proven wrong by my first private IVF attempt I'm happy to say!


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