# Why does it matter so much?



## solitaire (Mar 26, 2007)

Hi ladies,

I would like to ask you all a question that bothers me - why is it so important to be a parent? Why does it matter so much to us when we find out that it isn't going to happen? Why do we go to the lengths that we do to try to make it happen?  

I have looked deep into my heart on this for many years, and now I have found you wonderful people, I would like to see what others think!

In my case, as many of you know, I am adopted and I have always felt the need for a biological connection. That is a sensible logical answer, but why does it hurt so much - and I mean a deep physical pain in the gut - when I think about not being a mum?  

Insight please!! 

Lots of love,
solitaire
xxx


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## Spangle122 (Sep 18, 2006)

Hi Solitaire

I am afraid I can not offer any great words of wisdom, just huge  

I wish I had the answer as it might help us all deal with our feelings and emotions.

Love Spangle.xx


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## emcee (Apr 3, 2005)

Crikey Solitaire, you raise some good questions there - why indeed?

For me, I knew the minute I clapped eyes on my DH that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with him. Part of that was wanting to have children with him, and be a family unit of our own. He also wanted the same things.

I think its socially expected from everyone around you as well that when you meet that special someone it will only be a matter of time before kids arrive... to this day I can still remember all of DH's family discussing our having kids the day after our wedding - I was already one ectopic pregnancy down the line and terrified at that point of it happening again and none too impressed with his folks - and I told them so!

Then the years trundle on and before you know it everyone around you is having a family and you feel like you are being left behind - even those who never really wanted kids have had them, some are onto their 2nd or third and there you are, you haven't even gotten to first base yet! It can leave you feeling so isolated as your friends drift off to do 'yummy mummy' stuff with other parents, or they hang out with other parents as their houses are more suitable for kids and there are things there for their kids to do...

I don't know about you but I had always assumed that meeting someone, setting up home together etc was all going to go to plan as well as the 2.5 kids and fluffy dog like you see on the telly. What I hadn't banked on was it not happening, and the way certain friends turned tail and ran, and the sheer lonelyness and isolation of IF. I'd like to say I was surrounded by supportive people but sadly I wasn't; in retrospect though I was probably not a very nice person to be around at the time either.

So when things like this don't happen its a gut wrenching, life changing thing - no matter how any of us deals with it, it changes everything in our world. I still get those deep gut wrenching pains that you describe, as healed as I am they never totally go away - they are a part of me. 

Sorry for waffling - the hour is late, I have had a very loooong day and I am shortly headed off to bed. I just couldn't bear to leave this one though - and I will be interested to see what others have to say on the subject too.

Big squeezy hugs winging their way to you sweetie
Emcee xxx


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## Bandicoot (Mar 8, 2007)

Hi Solitaire. Emcee is right, you do ask great questions!

Well as for why we put ourselves through so much, I feel we need an egghead scientist boffin to answer that bit for us! Come in Prof Winston... (whatever you might think of him).  Ultimately I suppose it does come down to the sensible, logical reason you mention: our unshakable primeval need to pass our biological information on. As human beings, as with every other species on this planet, it is in our blood, at our very core, to procreate and pass our genetic material on. To leave our imprint: otherwise, what's it all about? (Speaking purely from a biological point of view, of course.) So there we are: nice, intelligent otherwise perfectly sane girls, all jumping through hoops time and again to try and make this happen.

As to why it hurts so much, well that's not so easy to explain away, is it? I think emcee made some great points about it being the socially expected thing to do, and about watching friends having children and feeling left behind etc. Personally I also think I mourn not only for the past and the children I have lost but also for the future and the grandchildren I won't ever have. We all have so much love to give and this leaves an enourmous void in our lives, one that I imagine won't ever truly go away (though I am sure will be less painful and more manageable with time). I imagine it just becomes a part of our makeup as much as the urge to have children was in the first place. 

I have a feeling this is turning into psychobabble so I'll shut up  . But thanks for posing such an interesting question Solitaire, and lots of love to you.

B xxx


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## Maggie Mae (Mar 2, 2006)

Solitaire, 

Great question, great answers so far; my quick addition, for what it is worth, 

1. Biology - we are mammals, however much we try to ignore that fact,
2. Social conditioning - we are elephants, not tigers, so we want to do what everyone else is doing, to belong, to fit the norm,
3. Pyschology - we are unconsciously trying to resolve issues within the parenting we recieved by doing it ourselves, and ultimately hoping we 'do a better job of it'. Thus one of the challenges to us as chidless women is to feel legitimately adult in a world that doesn't really count us as such.... (This one I could go on about for quite a while....!)

May come back to this, must get on for now, thanks for posing a good one!

MM xxx


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## ruby k (Jun 2, 2004)

Hi solitaire
I think this is a really interesting question, and one I have pondered often! I agree with everything the others have said - particularly the issue about how difficult it is to watch others have kids and become their own happy group. I read somewhere (can't remember when/where!) about the 'basic' ie primeval needs or urges humans have - amongst needing to eat, drink, procreate (yeah yeah), was the need to _fit in_. It came as a surprise and a relief to me that the desire to be part of the gang (or 'pack' or something), was actually an instinct type reaction. I have felt and still do feel incredibly isolated and have really wanted to fit in with the 'others' - it's been a big part of my struggle actually. But it makes me feel slightly better to realise that I am not needy and desparate - or if I am (yes!), its because I am fulfilling the primal need of a pack animal!! No, seriously, I do think that the desire to be included and socially acceptable (whatever that means to you), is HUGE.
I should be used to being an outisder as the rest of my life isn't that conventional at all - but I think this is a basic thing really - which I haven't fully been able to overcome yet.

Plus our bodies as women and our cycles, love or loathe them, can't help but make us want a child sometimes .

love xxxxx


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## QD (Aug 15, 2003)

This thread is amazing.  You all talk so much sense.  All of what you say resonates with me - the biology, the pack mentality, the desire to be a 'proper' adult, how so much of female identity is bound up with motherhood,  social conditioning, wanting not to perpetuate the sins of the fathers, wanting to give a partner a child, not wanting to be alone etc.

I also think it's about wanting control.  People make plans to have children and they get pg and the baby arrives and grows up.  All through that process, plans are made and followed through and people feel like they're in control of their lives.  Through suffering infertility, I have realised that life is completely random and I have no control over what happens in the next 5 minutes, let alone 5 years.  A bit alarming but also strangely comforting (to me anyway!).

Infertiles are also faced with the eternal question 'why am I here?', earlier and a bit more forcefully than parents.  Parents don't have to question their existence so much whilst there are kids to look after.  They perhaps face this dilemma later on in their lives, when the kids have left home.  Oh, but then they have the grandchildren, grrrr.

Good question Solitaire!


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## s.a.f. (May 20, 2005)

Great question Solitaire,

in addition to all the excellent answers already posted I would add one thought:

in you post you emphasised the "deep physical pain in the gut"  - and I think it is the "physical" side of things which is the key. What I mean is that one of the key experiences of being a Mum is the unique physical intimacy between yourself and the baby - and so being denied that is like having a physical need unfulfilled which invokes a pain which is both physical and psychological.  

love

S.A.F.


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## emcee (Apr 3, 2005)

Well said S.A.F., - am nodding my head in agreement with you there!

xxx


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## flipper (Jul 7, 2004)

What an interesting thread and there's not a lot for me to add really.

QD, don't you think that having children removes control from your life as they gain more control over their own?  From dragging home ghastly potential partners to money problems to dumb life decisions, the people I know with kids seem to be constantly bailing them out and suspending their own life in the process.

My Dad maintains that being a parent = being a hostage to fortune (then he's never really been that keen on his off-spring!)

flipper


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## Megan10 (Jul 16, 2004)

Such a good question Solitaire and so many wise words.
For me there are two overriding drivers:
1. The missed experience. I so wanted to have all the day to day experiences of nurturing a child and helping them grow into a wonderful human being. I wanted to laugh and cry and feel proud and worry. Yes I wanted to be part of a wide group but more than anything it is the missed experience. I went on a training course for work once where people had to share the best momnet in their lives. Those with children ALWAYS said 'the day my child was born'. Those of us without children had very banal moments in comparison. When so many talk of this amazing, fierce love like no other i so wanted to experience it.

2. Continuity. I find it so hard that my family ends with me. No-one to leave family things to but more important than possessions no-one to hand on family history, stories, memories, traditions to. It seems so bloody final. I realise from this that I need to find another form of immortality as it has surprised me how important it is to me. 

Great question Solitaire.
Love Meganxxxx


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## jomac (Oct 27, 2006)

This is good question. For me it's all the stuff about wanting to nurture. I also love my  to death and think he's such a special man that  feel that the world deserves to have his genes!! Whilst I always secretly longed for a daughter I think that if we'd have had a son he would be just like my DH and make some woman very happy!
I also was not parented well and desperately wanted the opportunity to do that well for a child.
I also have spent a lot of time looking after pregnant woman and did quite a lot of obstetrics. I used to cry at every delivery - honest- I used to hope like hell nobody noticed.  When I was a med student I used to watch women have babies and secretly in my heart thought to myself " I won't do that". Sometimes I wander if I've brought infertility to myself by thinking those thoughts ( daft I know but it's amazing what goes through your head). I'd just really like to experience pregnancy and know what it felt like to watch your tummy get bigger and feel a baby kick inside.   
Ah well, these thoughts are hard but it's also a relief to write them down

Your in shared grief Jo


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## irisheyes (Feb 2, 2005)

Not a lot for me to add either except that recently I have spoken to 2 girls(women) who have expressed an interest in NOT having children! I found this very refreshing as they didnt seem to be yearning to be "part of the pack".

One of these is a work colleague who has recently split up with a boyfriend (and nearing 40) -she has realised that it is important for her to find a partner to be with/ or get back together with this one to spend her life with rather than the rush to have a baby!

The other girl is a good friend i had thru a hobby in my youth who i have just got back in touch with as she was living abroad for over 10 years.She too is struggling at the moment with the partner issue(and nearing 40) too as they have to decide whether to commit or not.He would like kids,she has never been that bothered.But she also has a medical condition which could worsen a great deal if she was to get pg. 

But i found it interesting that it wasnt the fear of not having a baby but the fear of not having someone to share the rest of your life with.Maybe we are 50% lucky!?


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## EML (Jul 25, 2005)

Dear Girls
I agree with everything said here... and something Megan said struck a chord with me.
It isn't just the nurturing thing for me (although that is a huge part of my almost obsessive drive to have a child of our own)...I am the youngest in our family (they live in another country), and it is a scarey thought that (of my generation) I'll be the 'last man standing'... the one who buries the last of my contemporaries (sorry to be morbid) ... and the batty of lady who talks about the past because she can't see any future... I think that is one of the reasons why we have chosen to adopt. When I'm gone, I hope there will be someone interested in looking at some of my treasured family photos and remember who the heck I was, who my mum and dad were (my sister couldn't have children, but her DH has loads of nephews and nieces...and she has found God!) and to be a small part of someones extended family tree... not just a dead limb on one side. We don't have that many younger members of our family, and those that are around hardly know I'm there even now. My DHs brother has a daughter, but she lives in another country and we've never met her!
I'm sorry to sound vain and depressing (and I hope I've not offended anyone with such a personal post)... but if we can't speak our minds here...where can we.
Love to you all... and here's hoping we all find our path to happines.
EML


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## Spangle122 (Sep 18, 2006)

s.a.f. said:


> Great question Solitaire,
> 
> in addition to all the excellent answers already posted I would add one thought:
> 
> ...


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## solitaire (Mar 26, 2007)

Hi all,

I'm great at asking questions, not so good with finding the answers!

Immortality is a really good point - leaving something behind so that our lives weren't in some way wasted. I think that is why I do many of the things I do with my life - in the hope that someone will remember me after I'm gone. I used to worry that no-one would come to my funeral - is that a bit weird?

I just knew you would all have words of wisdom - thank you so much for all your comments. As ever, it is so good to know I am not alone in my thoughts and feelings.

You really should think about writing a book about all of this  

Lots of love,
solitaire
xxx


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## Maggie Mae (Mar 2, 2006)

Funnily enough, S, that's exactly what flipper's got us considering doing -have a look at her posts to see if you want to join in!!! MM xxx


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## jq (Nov 14, 2006)

Sorry to be so late on this one.

So many good points have been raised, it just goes to show how much thought we IF people have put into this, probably so much more than many people for whom it all happened so easily, or by accident! If anybody wants to know why parenting is so important to the human race they would probably get a better answer here than from an average parent!

For me, the most difficult issue has been what to do with my desire to nurture. I try to do this through loving DH, through friendship and family, for my horses, through my work too. I know these are the same as motherhood, but I hope that my "mothering spirit" is not entirely wasted if I can channel it in some of these ways.

Solitaire, not at all weird to think about who will come to your own funeral. I think about it quite often! What I have realised is that I do not want the oration (or whatever it is called) to focus on my sorrow at not having children. Yes, that has been a big part of my life, but only a part. It may have given me some perspective and some compassion and I would rather these qualities were valued than I was defined as a disappointed woman. I don't expect to be remembered for long, my achievements don't yet include world class inventions, political stature, literature or other arts! It would just be nice to hope that people who knew me could say, "She was good to have around, we will miss her." And soon they will forget. But in the big sweep of time most people are forgotten in no more than 2 generations, which is no time at all really.

I think MM is so right that part of our drive is the psychological one of resolving issues from our own childhood and "doing it better." But how many people actually do it better? As MM knows, we tend to repeat patterns and/or make our own mistakes and there are other ways of resolving issues from our past. 

Phillip Larkin's poem seems apt here. Funnily enough DH was almost tempted to read it (without the f-word!) at his Mum's funeral as his 4 sisters in the madness of their grief were arguing about who was the most f-upped child and who the best daughter and best parent amongst them!

Larkin:

"They @#/? you up, your mum and dad.
  They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
  And add some extra, just for you.

But they were f*#ked up in their turn
  By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
  And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
  It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
  And don't have any kids yourself." 

(Needless to say DH said something less controversial!)

Thanks for a great thread!

Love Jq xxx


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## QD (Aug 15, 2003)

Thanks for reminding me about the Larkin poem, bl**dy brilliant!


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## s.a.f. (May 20, 2005)

MM & JQ,

Regarding the point that you have made about (using MM's words) "unconsciously trying to resolve issues within the parenting we recieved by doing it ourselves, and ultimately hoping we 'do a better job of it'. " :

I just feel I'd like to point out the other side of the coin:

In my case I received excellent parenting and had a wonderful childhood - so my hope (and more specifically, my expectation!) was to replicate that !!  Maybe there are some others who can identify with that ?

S.A.F.


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## jq (Nov 14, 2006)

Hi S.A.F

No offence intended! Of course loads of people have happy childhoods! I guess I was feeling a little post freudian due to the book I was reading!

Love

Jq xxx


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