# is ther any hope or alternatives left for me? help



## katielee (Nov 3, 2005)

hello ladies so glad ff is back   hope someone can help me i have just done my 4th ivf
1st lp 7 follies 3 fert
2nd sp 11 follies 7 fert
3rd sp 11 follies 3fert
4th sp 5 follies 2 eggs which did not fert
through all my cycles i have been on 450 fostimon then had dose reduced as my blood levels rose i also used 0.25 of burselin just dont know where to go from here had our follow up consultation and they say that i may be running out of eggs or i just had a bad cycle they can never tell. my fsh has never been above 7 but he said thats not a true indication of egg reserve i also asked him to try a different drug with me but he said it would not make a difference to the way i respond i would have thought with all the money and time weve spent with them he would be willing to try something different with me is there any of you ladies who have switched drugs and had a better result dont know what to do dont think i could go through ec again to find out at the end of it were not even in with a chance because our eggs didnt fert hope this makes sense to anyone reading it take care katie


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## liz6969 (Sep 27, 2005)

Hi hun,
I can't say from my own experience but i have heard that changing drugs and protocol can make a difference. Were you on a long or short protocol? coz short protocol seems to work better for ladies who don't respond to well. Have you thought about changing clinics some times the way others places work help to.
Liz xx xx


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## Maddymoo (Oct 9, 2005)

Hi Katie
I don't know whether this will help you but I am currently with Dr Zhai at the Zhai clinic (TCM and acupuncture). She has requested that in the next few months I go to The Doctors Laboratory (Harley Street or near there!!) and have a test called the anti mullerian profile-its a day 2-3 of your cycle test and gives more detail on egg reserve-I mentioned it to my consultant (at an NHS unit) and she said they don't test for it because of costs-if you want more details just let me know and if you want I can PM you x
Take care, Maddy xxxx


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## Catb33 (Aug 1, 2006)

Hi Katie, 

My clinic said the opposite with changing drugs. 1st ICSI last year I was on puregon and buserelin and despite lots of follies we only got 2 mature eggs from which we got a low grade embie. They said immediately that a change in drugs may help produce more eggs. This time I've been on synarel and menopur and although I had less follicles we got 3 mature eggs, and 2 which matured within a few hours of ec. 3 fertilised - 2 at grade 1 - so we're already streets ahead of last time. 

It would be worth you having a second opinion, or going back to your clinic. 

Cathie x


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## doodler (Nov 16, 2005)

Hi katielee,
I'm sorry you've had 4 failed attempts so far.I don't have personal experience as I've just had one failed cycle so far but from everything I've read I would definitely change clinics for a fresh approach. Different drugs  could well help or a different protocol or even ICSI . Have you read Zita Wests book  - there's a great  section on IVF etc and all my cycle buddies found it useful. She consults in London and works in conjunction with the bridge clinic I think and describes women with a similar experience to yours coming to her having been told their egg quality/numbers are poor  when they've only been on one drug/protocol and then they get pregnant on a different regime.Check out her website too. Good luck, 

love moonchild


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## Sam2995 (Apr 26, 2005)

Katie,

In one of the papers yesterday I was reading the story of Sharron Davies (the ex swimmer).  She is 43 and just conceived on her 8th IVF.  Two of those IVFs were with doner eggs because they told her that hers weren't good enough but miraculously her 8th was with her own eggs and she conceived (after years of trying).

The ex pop star Sinnitta was in a similar situation.  She was also told that her eggs were running out but a change of clinic and different protocol and a surrogate did get pregnant (with her eggs).

Maybe you could get a second opinion.

Sam


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## collymags (Jan 3, 2006)

dear Katie

so sorry to hear you are having such a rough and sad time. i would say you've still got a lot of options. like the others say another opinion could make all the difference, plus comlementry therpies.  you don't mention your age! is that a factor?.  i had 3 failed cycles 1st was my own eggs  all 2 of them and both fertilised but bfn. that had been on top whack of drugs.  they said my only real chance of success was donor egg. so we did that one fresh cycle one frozen both bfn.  yet miraculously we did it naturally, immediately after our last fail.  so lass all i can say is there usually a way forward.  fingers crossed & heaps of luck xx


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## sugary (Feb 17, 2006)

Hi Katie
KNow just how you feel have been given a fsh of 15, don't give up hope changing drugs is definately an option, I am going to try there's also a thing called oestrogen priming which they do in the states to help poor reposnders - look it up on the internet - it's given me some hope!


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## molly mo (Apr 26, 2004)

Don't give up, my ovarian reserve has always been in question and many clinics been to have suggested donor eggs but eventually a lady called rina from CRM London gave us a proper chance and was patient with my poor and slow response and voila! pregnant but sadly miscarried (IVF) followed by another IVF producing my now healthy 18 month old baby girl, another pregnancy since ( also IVF but sadly miscarried) and now embarking on another IVF cycle
Good Luck
Always consider changing clinics and /or protocols or drugs
Molly Mo


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## collymags (Jan 3, 2006)

Katie, forgot to mention earlier my initial fsh on first starting on this journey was 24!!!, but it did go up and down over a few months, without me doing anything (i'd not found this site at the time so hadn't a clue)


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## katielee (Nov 3, 2005)

Hello ladies and thank you all so much for your replies sorry its took so long to thank you all but not been up to coming on here for a few days just wanted some time to think and try and work out what we will do next needless to say weve just been going round in circles but reading through your responses we do at least feel that we have different alternatives well give anything a go even if it means having to rent somewhere in a different area from where we live if the clinic is too far. congratulations to those of you who have made your dreams come true and to those who havent like myself we just have to try and stay as positive as possible our dreams will come true one day all the best of luck and take care katie xx


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## CarrieW (Apr 3, 2006)

Does anyone know where the ex olympic swimmer Sharron Davies had her cycle of IVF and PGD in the UK.  I too read that she had some cycles here in the UK in Sheffield and London Fertility Clinic.  I have had several cycles in the states but the last 2 had all abnormal embies - was absolutely gutted.  I've only just turned 40 but not ready to give up yet.  We have a 2yr old from 2nd attempt but the following 4 have all failed, although I have had a really good response to the drugs each time.

Have decided that we may try a clinic in the UK for PGD as it costs so much to keep going to America, although my 3rd attempt was also in Cyprus, possibly where Sharron also went but I do believe I was there for unsuspecting egg/embryo donation as the report they sent the UK clinic had totally conflicting accounts of the cycle that were given to me.

If anyone does know which clinic Sharron used, I would be very grateful to find out as I'm really losing faith and it gives me hope to hear of someone who has gone through a similar amount of cycles but to finally become pregnant in this country with their own embies.

Love
Carriew


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## little nell (Sep 19, 2005)

Hope this helps...



> In her first interview about what she describes as 'an emotional rollercoaster', Sharron says she can still hardly believe she is 13 1/2 weeks into a normal, healthy pregnancy - and that she is carrying her own biological child. "It is almost too good to be true that we have been able to use one of my eggs. It was very difficult to come to terms with the fact that I might have to rely on donor eggs. But I would have moved heaven and earth to give Tony a child." Sharron was already a mother of two - Elliott, now 13, and Grace, eight - when she married Tony, 38, a pilot for British Airways. Although Tony has been married before, he didn't have any children and I was desperate for him to be a father," says Sharron. "The more he said: 'I've still got you, Elliott and Grace', the more I felt he deserved the joy of a genetic child of his own. "I had only a 15 per cent chance of success. But I would have kept on going until we ran out of money or hope. "We tried to conceive naturally for more than a year, but sex became about nothing more than making a baby. If it was my fertile time of the month and Tony was flying, I'd follow him."
> After a year of failing to conceive, they decided to seek help. "Tony was not keen," she says. "Like most blokes, he prefers to ignore health problems in the hope that they will go away. In fact, we were told we were both fine and that I was ovulating normally - although someone did mention my age." At least six per cent of couples are estimated to be affected by secondary infertility - the inability to conceive having already had at least one pregnancy. The causes include problems with ovulation or sperm function, and infection. Secondary infertility can also be agerelated. "They told us to think about our options, including IVF," Sharron recalls. "We thought about all this for six months, still hoping it would happen naturally. Tony has never, ever implied that if we couldn't have children he'd be off, but I began to feel my own pressure to give him a child, which made it more stressful." Then Sharron saw a TV interview with Professor William Ledger, from the unit of reproductive and developmental medicine at Sheffield Teaching Hospitals. He had launched a test to calculate how many eggs a woman had left and how long her reproductive life had to run. "He put me in the trial and my ovarian reserve came out as similar to the average for a woman ten years younger," she says. "But Professor Ledger pointed out that the quality of those eggs was more important. He told me I had a less than 10 per cent chance of becoming pregnant." Sharron was given drugs to stimulate her ovaries to produce more eggs. The hormonal treatment was unpleasant, exacerbated by her age: "The older you are, the more drugs you need to stimulate your ovaries. Taking pessaries, none of this is pleasant - but it was nothing compared to the emotional side. We were living by the clock because I had to be so precise about when I took my drugs. "Tony was very supportive and came with me on all the checks. It was a six-hour round trip to Sheffield, so it would take a whole day for each appointment. "We seemed to be going for scans all the time, to make sure the eggs were in the right place, to check that the drugs hadn't given me an ovarian cyst and so on. "There were moments when I was short with him but we were able to laugh; the experience pulled us together rather than apart." After the first IVF treatment, Sharron took a pregnancy test. "I had this idea that IVF was magic and was sure I would be pregnant, so it was a surprise when I wasn't." For her second attempt at IVF, it was decided that the sperm would be given a helping hand using a technique called ICSI ( Intracytoplasmic sperm injection). Here, the sperm is put directly into the egg - but none of Sharron's eggs fertilised. ICSI added an extra £1,000 to the £3,500 bill for each cycle. "We were lucky we could afford it. What broke my heart was the number of young couples I would meet, in tears in the lift, when their IVF hadn't worked and they had to save for a year to try again." When Sharron went through her third cycle, she says: "We were ecstatic when, on the third try, I became pregnant. But at five weeks - about the earliest stage that a heartbeat can be detected - the doctors could not find one. "I was about to have a D and C (dilation and curettage, to evacuate the contents of the womb) when they detected a heartbeat. But the doctors said it was too slow and I would definitely miscarry. "It came at ten weeks. Afterwards, I went into the garden, without Tony or the children, and buried it. This baby just wasn't meant to be." For her fourth IVF attempt, ten good eggs were produced. "They picked three to implant, throwing away the rest. I was livid, particularly when I didn't became pregnant." Sharron then consulted the London Fertility Centre in Harley Street, who suggested GIFT - gamete intrafallopian transfer. Sharron explains: "With GIFT, the eggs and sperm are introduced into the fallopian tubes, where they would meet naturally. They are allowed to implant more eggs than when fertilised eggs are put straight into the womb. All seven were put in, but none took." Many couples would, at this stage, have given up. "We were losing faith," admits Sharron. It was suggested that she try donor eggs. "It was tough to think that I wouldn't be related to the baby but, by law, I would be its mother. I would carry it, give birth to it and bring it up. Surely, I thought, I can do this for Tony. "Unfortunately, in the UK it has been illegal for two years for eggs or sperm to be donated anonymously. And even then there is a four-year waiting list for eggs. "The London clinic I was under had an association with a clinic in Cyprus, so we went there. Their donors are screened, as are the eggs, and anonymity is allowed." They paid £10,000 each time for two IVF cycles using donor eggs, the first time fresh and the second time from frozen: "I thought that with these young eggs we'd definitely fall pregnant - but no." Refusing to be daunted by failure, Sharron did some research and learned about PGD - preimplantation genetic diagnosis. In traditional IVF, clinicians select embryos depending on how they look on the basis of their appearance under the microscope. This reveals nothing about chromosomal make-up, and the eggs of older women are more likely to have defects, which are responsible for the majority of their miscarriages. PGD tests fertilised eggs for genetic conditions such as cystic fibrosis and sickle cell anaemia. It is also recommended for older women who have failed to get pregnant with IVF or who have had miscarriages. The screening is done on the third day of an embryo's development once it has eight cells. One or two cells are removed using micropipettes; the embryo, if viable, will continue to develop unhindered. Sharron and Tony decided to have a last attempt with her own eggs. Three were fertilised with ICSI, then the PDG analysis ruled one out. Another, a male embryo, was ruled in while results on the third, a female embryo, were inconclusive. "We knew the boy would be all right and they asked us if we wanted the female embryo put back," Sharron says. "We said yes, knowing that if something was wrong, it wouldn't implant. "Tony was away when I did the pregnancy test and I waited till he got back before telling him it was positive. He was overjoyed but it wasn't the happy time it should have been because we were so anxious. Sharron, who has complained of watching her body grow out of control during previous pregnancies, has decided to enjoy this one. "I'm 99.9per cent sure this is the last one," she says. "We won't do IVF again but nor will we use contraception, so if it happens naturally that's fine but I'm not expecting it. "I want to treasure this pregnancy. It's not more special than my other two, but it's been hard fought for. With this baby, we feel we will have our perfect family."


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## hevvy (May 15, 2005)

Hello everyone,

That is really interesting and heartening to hear Sharron Davies' story, thank you little Nell.  

Katielee- hope you are doing ok.  Have you made any decisions / further enquiries yet?  I have been through 3 cycles, the last 1 had to be abandoned on Sat as none of my 3 eggs fertilised - dp's sperm not moving and we have now run out of frozen sperm now.  So we are in similar situation and taking some time to work out what's next, or whether it's time to stop.    Know exactly what you mean in your msgs - thought it was so hard when we got a bfn on CHristmas day last year, but that didn't prepare us for the hurt of not even getting to et this time.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do

Heatherxxxx


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## katielee (Nov 3, 2005)

hi heather sorry you also did not get to et its awful isnt i hope you are feeling ok as for me im fine we have decided to give it one last shot and stay with same clinic i read up on all clinics i could find but im affraid most of the info given went straight over my  it was stressing me out so gave up and decided to stay wher we have always gone because at least they said they would give me another try other clinics may not i wish you luck take care katiexx


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