# Dilemma



## Tombliboo (Dec 6, 2009)

Hi

This is my first post - though I have used this site for a while. I have often gained knowledge, inspiration and strength from reading your posts - but now I need some advice/views on my predicament. Appreciate it if you could read my story below and tell me what you would do if in my shoes. (not what you think I should do but what you would do). I'm quite a strong-minded gal so don't worry about unduly influencing me - I just need some thoughts.

My story (abridged version!)

On my 35th birthday late in 2006, decide to try for a baby on my own. 6 weeks later have my first iui (despite clinic telling me to abandon cycle because of thin lining). 8 months later my gorgeous, wonderful, mischievous son shot out into the world (45 mins in labour).

10 months later decide to try for a sibling for my son. After 3 medicated iuis and 4 icsis (poor response and poor quality eggs) advised to move to donor eggs. After a few months of self-pity, disbelief&#8230;and a couple of tantrums (!) I decide to go down the egg donor route.

Having done some research into UK egg share programs, I discover that finding a suitable donor (either Spanish or Indian - I am a mix ) would be 'very challenging'. Research into clinics abroad is far more positive. Contact my UK clinic to be told that my 'identity disclosed sperm donor' had ticked the box 'no export abroad'. Devastated. They agree to contact him to see if he might change his mind - just in this instance. Discover he has emigrated to France and not left contact details. Refuse to contact **** but agree to send a message to an e-mail address he gave when donating 4 years ago. It's been 6 weeks and no reply. In limbo.

So, what to do? Wait in hope that sperm donor will read e-mail and agree transport to Spain. Wait in hope that a suitable egg donor can be found in the UK so can have egg share treatment here (not on any lists yet). Go to Spain and have double donor treatment. Give up on dream and focus on the good fortune that has already come my way.

Would really appreciate your thoughts/advice/views.


----------



## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

It is hard I would try and pursue the (sperm) donor and see if he is willing for the sperm to be shipped out of the country- but to where. Or else get on a shorter egg donor clinic list there , infertility uk and have info on list lengths.  

I suppose it is how much do you want to a sibling to your son, or if you want another child- of so then double donor, but I would try and see if he would allow it to go out of the country.

Wishing you luck
lx


----------



## blueytoo (Oct 5, 2003)

Personally I would go with the double donor having had that many cycles. I would not personally want to wait around a second longer.


----------



## Soooze (Nov 20, 2009)

I would go for double donor.
Take control.
The children will both be your children and will be siblings.
All the very best.  
xx


----------



## cocochanel1 (Oct 15, 2009)

I would look at the best UK clinics for donor eggs success and go with the shortest waiting list using the donor sperm you have. You know the sperm works and I sense from your post your preference would be to have a genetic link to your son.

Coco xxx


----------



## upsydaisy (May 9, 2009)

Hiya Tombliboo 

Just had to be different, you asked what I would do. Well what I'm trying to do is 'focus on the good fortune I've had already' and apart from the occasional wobble I'm succeeding.  Mind you I'd hate to suggest that anyone gives up on their dream.  My dream was to have a child and I have. I'd love her to have a sibling but for lots of reasons it's not really an option.

see ya in the night garden  

Upsy
xxx


----------



## Tombliboo (Dec 6, 2009)

Thank you all for your replies. You’ve given me lots of food for thought. Will let you know how my story continues.

Upsy Daisy - what a lovely daughter you have - I always suspected there was something going on between you and that cad Igglepiggle….just watch him though….he chases you round your bed then jumps into his boat and sets sail…me thinks he’s a player with a girl in every port! 

Tombliboo


----------



## ameliacooper (Aug 12, 2007)

Hi Tombliboo

I read you post with interest mainly because I'm in a similar position (thinking about a 2nd).

I think you have already been given great advice but its such a huge decision that only you can really make.  

The thing that worries me is that I'm not sure I would go with donor eggs for a 2nd - for various reasons and I think that if that were my fate then I would do as Upsy points out (and yes her DD is rather gorgeous  )

Just out of interest - I am surprised that in only two years - your egg quality has diminished so much.  And it has got me worried - did you have any issues beforehand when conceiving your first?  I had an FHS test a couple of months ago which came back very low - I'm going to request an AMH blood test today at my Drs.

Not sure I've been any help - so apologies

Axx


----------



## Tombliboo (Dec 6, 2009)

Amelia

Yes I was shocked that my fertility had declined so much. After conceiving my son on my first iui I thought i'd have no problems with my second. It was only actually 20 months between conceving my DS and trying for my second.My day 3 hormones at 35, 36.5 and 37.5 years were perfect...I never actually had AMH done...we tried so many different protocols but it was clear that I had a a very diminished reserve. It was also not a case of quality not quantity as my embryos were usually a grade 3. It just goes to show that it really is a lottery post 35. It also makes me so grateful for my son...had I left it a year things would have been very different. 

Re donor eggs....I also posted my dilemma on the 'single women needing donor eggs' thread and got some great answers - have a read if you have time. All I can say is that I didn't even want to do ivf...'what ever is meant to be is meant to be' has been my motto for a long time. IUI seemed to be as close to conceiving naturally as poss. But with each hurdle I have faced I have moderated my views. Perhaps there is this conviction in me to give my son a sibling that burns more strongly than I ever expected. Perhaps it's because I'm an only child. Perhaps it's to compensate for him not having a father. Who knows? All I do know is that I had him for me ...and now the motivation to have another child is to give him a sibling...and I don't think I'm ready to give up quite yet.

Best Wishes

Tombliboo


----------



## Maya7 (Sep 9, 2008)

Tombliboo ... hope you make the right decision for you; am sure you will...

I would set a time limit on chasing the donor overseas to see if I could convince him ... then progress to double donor.  The children would be siblings no matter what...

Good luck
Maya


----------



## RichmondLass (Apr 26, 2009)

You've got to try to do what your heart is telling you to do, but if that's not possible, I'd recommend going with donor asap to grow your family.

Just to add another dimension to the debate.  I was discussing famillies with two women at work who don't know my bun in the oven is a donor baby, but that's beside the point.

Both come from 'blended' familiies, that is their mothers had children, met their fathers, had more children, then got divorced and their fathers went on to remarry and have more children!  One of these women in particular says she is much, much closer to her 'half' siblings than to her natural siblings, one of which she no longer speaks to.  

I think we can get too hung up on nature and genetics rather than nurture and upbringing.  i reckon depending on how kids are brought up together they naturally feel like brothers and sisters, whether they know they've got a genetic link or not. it's being part of a loving family that counts for me.  Being genetically linked to someone is absolutely no guarantee of closeness.  I have plenty of friends with dysfunctional relationships with parents and siblings to prove that one!

Hope it comes together for you...

RLxx


----------



## upsydaisy (May 9, 2009)

Completely agree RL. 
If I found out tomorrow that I wasn't genetically related to my mother it wouldn't change how I feel about her in the slightest (would explain why I didn't inherit her good looks  ).  We don't share any genetic links, don't look at all alike (build, skin, hair, eyes all different), have completely different temperaments, abilities and opinions (she thinks I'm insane to choose to become a single mother).  What we have is nothing to do with genetics it's the love she has shown me since I was born and continues to show me every day (just offered to drive 60 miles with a bottle of capol because mine has run out and LO too poorly to drag round Sainsbury's  -). The obvious genetic links I have are all with my father and all negative.. acne, prematurely grey hair, total lack of sporting prowess, social ineptitude.... (oops this is becoming a bit of me post  ).  
The only reason I'd want a sibling using the same donor is because my daughter is so utterly gorgeous and perfect that I'd like another just like her!

Upsy
xxx


----------



## ameliacooper (Aug 12, 2007)

My DD's sibling ( ) will definately have a different father and I am completely fine about that.

They will be full siblings in my eyes whatever.  And I would also secretly hope for another child that looked like me (as my DD does).

Funnily enough the fact that they would have different fathers doesn't bother me one bit.

Tomliboo - have you made any decisions yet?

Axx


----------



## Tombliboo (Dec 6, 2009)

Amelia - Well I've decided I'm not giving up yet....NGDT (The National Gamete Donation Trust) have kindly done a round robin e-mail to all fertility clinics in the UK asking if they have any egg donors that may fit the bill. And whilst I've had loads of replies - none feel they would be in a position to offer a suitable egg share in the next 6 months. It's incredible how long the waiting lists are in some places - and you have to double them for someone with my ethnic background (as well as the fact I'm CMV neg). And even if I do find someone suitable - egg share success rates aren't that great in most UK clinics. But I'm still getting replies so maybe there's someone waiting for a match.

At the same time I've persuaded the clinic where my sperm is stored to contact HFEA to see if they can help track down the donor (they were reluctant to do that before).

And I've said to myself if things really don't look positive for treatment in the UK by the new year i'm off to Spain...where both donors will be young, fit, uni students, success rates are high, I can get a physical, ethnic, blood and CMV match easily...and more importantly I'll have taken control, been decisive and given us the best chance of extending our family (whilst having exhausted all other possibilities).

Txxx


----------



## ameliacooper (Aug 12, 2007)

Good for you Tomliboo.

I bought a pack of pregnacare plus today - it's been a long time since I've taken them.  Not planning on opening them til I've had the chat with the potential father - but I'm definitely in the ttc zone again ..... scary!

Axx


----------



## Tombliboo (Dec 6, 2009)

Good Luck Amelia - please don't be put off by my story....I bet your eggs will be fine...even my consultant was shocked at how quickly my fertility had declined. Txx


----------



## ameliacooper (Aug 12, 2007)

Thanks Tomliboo

I'm hoping to start early next year.  I'm not sure how I'll feel if it doesn't work out apart from extremely gutted to say the least.  Anyway we are already blessed so what will be will be.  Finding it hard seeing double buggies at the moment but am feeling really positive.  Thanks for the reassurance.

Keep us informed.

Axx


----------



## RichmondLass (Apr 26, 2009)

Amelia Good luck with the chat!  Hope the outcome is in your favour!  How exciting!!!
RLxxx


----------



## Tombliboo (Dec 6, 2009)

Thought I’d give an update for those who are interested. As with so many things in my life, Fate has taken me by the hand - just hopes she decides to be kind to me….

Contacting the sperm donor I used to conceive my son proved completely fruitless (much to the surprise of the donor bank …‘a lovely, responsible guy’ by all accounts) and I’ve had to accept that I won’t be able to move my sibling store abroad. 

Finding a suitable egg donor in the UK has also proved very difficult. Despite help from many sources (including the National Gamete Assoc who contacted every clinic in the country) I came to the sad conclusion that non-white donors very rarely participate in egg -share programs. I even looked into asking a friend but it didn’t seem right….and someone from ‘Visit and Care’ tried her best to find a donor from India who was willing to fly over and donate here - but trying to persuade  HFEA to be sympathetic to my predicament and allow this was impossible. 

So I finally made the decision to go to Spain and have double-donor treatment and accept that sacrificing a genetic link with my son was what I had to do if I was to grow my family in the near future. I found a clinic I was happy with, did my screening tests and booked a flight for my initial appointment in early Jan. ....And then the snow came! Everytime the snow seemed to be thawing I’d re-arrange my flight and appointment but it just seemed that the Gods were conspiring against me. When my third flight was cancelled because of fresh snowfall it all just got to me - the failed ivfs, the issues with the donors, everything…

And then two things happened….

I’ve never really sobbed in front of my son (perhaps I’m over-protective) but it was just the two of us at home and I couldn’t stop myself. When he saw me he stopped his lego building and quietly went into the sitting room. I thought he just wanted to get away from me. He then re-appeared with the big Miriam Stoppard Pregnany book I had bought from a charity shop when I was carrying him and pointed to the picture on the front of a mum holding a newborn and said Mama, Baby, Happy!and gave me the biggest grin ever..... I couldn’t believe he’d made the connection. Now there are friends and relatives dropping by all the time and he spends quite a lot of time at his grandparents so someone must have explained what I was going through. In those few minutes my ds showed such sensitivity and understanding I was completely bowled over and I knew I’d find a way….he then farted loudly, put his arms up and cheered as he always does when he lets one rip and in an instance went back to being my unsubtle, 2 year old. 

The following morning I got a call from my UK clinic who asked if I could pop in and see my consultant which I did that afternoon. She told me that someone had come in at the start of Jan wanting to join the egg share program who she thought would be perfect for me. Despite dissuading Asians from going on the wait  list  there was someone on it who they offered the donor to . She accepted but at the last minute had to go on a business trip to the US. I couldn’t believe my luck. She was perfect…not just physically and the fact she’s proven but how similar she is to me - we even went to the same uni! And the clincher was this…the Dr said to me ‘remember I’ve always told you to be like your blood group (Be Positive…B+) well guess what her blood group is?’ Well my jaw just dropped…she even has the same blood type as me….

So I’m now on the pill so that our cycles can be sychronised and am hoping that this is meant to be and I’ll be able to give my son a sibling that is genetically related to him after all....

Keep your fingers and toes crossed for me!

Tombliboo xxxx


----------



## kizzi79 (Jan 9, 2009)

Thats fantastic news Tombliboo! So pleased that things are moving along for you. Hope all goes well with your treatment, keep us updated. Love Krissi  x


----------



## Lou-Ann (Apr 20, 2008)

Tombliboo, so glad that things are finally starting to come together for you  . Good luck! 

Lou-Ann x


----------



## RichmondLass (Apr 26, 2009)

Tom that's just fantastic!  I can't beleive your perfect luck!  I love your doc saying the Be Positive thing!  A lesson to us all.

Good luck and what a great son - you sure can turn 'em out well!!

RLxxxxx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

great news I hope your story has a happy ending
L


----------



## Damelottie (Jul 26, 2005)

Oh what a lovely lovely story about your son - especially the farting bit      

GOOD LUCK


----------



## indekiwi (Dec 23, 2008)

Tombliboo,

Fingers and toes crossed for you!  That is tremendous news.     And I love your son's sensitivity and follow on antics.  

A-Mx


----------



## Mifi (Sep 27, 2008)

Tombliboo sounds like its meant to be     

Love the story with DS made me chuckle  

Good luck
 

Love FM XXXXXX


----------



## Tombliboo (Dec 6, 2009)

What a complete nightmare!! My donor had stimmed well and I really thought my time had come. EC was scheduled for this morning but - wait for it - the donor took her HCG trigger injection at 10am on Sat rather than 10pm!! She didn't realise the implication of this and so didn't tell anyone - woke up in the middle of the night writhing in pain as her follicles had started popping. Her hubbie took her to their local A&E where obviously controlling her pain (and not collecting any eggs ) was their only priority.

I'm still numb with shock and disappointment. After what I've been through this past year and a half (though of course many of you reading this have been through worse - please don't think I don't realise this) this seemed to be my final chance. All the concern seems to be for the donor - which is understandable. But I feel like screaming 'What about me!!' I had so much invested in this both emotionally and financially. The clinic has described it as 'unfortunate' and I don't even know if I will get a refund. Surely someone should take responsibility for this mess and I don't feel it should be me.

Knew things were going too well

Tombliboo
xxx


----------



## Felix42 (Oct 14, 2007)

Tombliboo, goodness that is just terrible!  You poor poor thing.  You must feel devastated.  I would agree that at the least you deserve a refund and/or free treatment for another cycle.  The clinic can't just say it's unfortunate and move on. You have paid for their service and when all's said done that hasn't been fulfilled, so you need to know how they will provide compensation for that.  Maybe contact them again, let them know that you understand the donor is likely to be their main concern just now but that you look forward to hearing from them in the next week to let you know how they intend to take this forward so that you do receive the service you have contracted with them to provide.

Sending you huge    This is such an emotional journey and I can only guess at how devastated you must feel just now.  It's not the end though.  Try and hold on to that.

Love and hugs, Felix xx


----------



## suitcase of dreams (Oct 7, 2007)

Firstly big hugs    

I know only too well how awful it is to be all geared up and ready for a DE cycle and for it to go wrong at the last minute. My first cycle in London the we went all the way through the process with the clinic saying all was well etc, until the donor's day 12 scan when I was told she was not suitable to be an egg sharer because she had not produced enough follicles. She went ahead with her own EC (not that I blame her) and I was left with a £750 cancellation fee and nothing to show for it all
To be fair I was made aware that this was a possibility before commencing the cycle, but was told that only 1 in hundreds of cycles is cancelled because of lack of donor response - I guess I just go very unlucky

It's a bit different in your case though because the donor actually made an error which resulted in you being let down. Whilst accidents can happen, I find it very hard to believe that she could get something so fundamental wrong - my clinic have always been meticulous about making sure I have understood the instructions prior to EC - too important to get wrong after all the emotional and financial investment to get to that point. On that basis I would say you definitely should not have to pay for anything - so I would certainly be asking the clinic to arrange a refund asap
If you do not get a satisfactory response when calling them, ask for the name of the lead consultant/director and write to them outlining your issues and concerns - I found this got me a very quick response...

So sorry this has happened, hope you at least get your money back, and better still, that you are able to cycle again soon,
Best of luck,
Suitcase
x


----------



## indekiwi (Dec 23, 2008)

Tombliboo, this is just too awful for you.      I also cannot believe that the clinic weren't extremely clear on the timing of the trigger though I guess there is always room for miscommunication and human error on both sides.    It is unimaginable to me that this cycle has turned into such a farce, and I also believe you should, at the very least, be entitled to a refund.  No amount of money can compensate you for the emotional investment you've made   and were I in your shoes I would be completely devastated.    Hope your friends and family are giving you huge support at the moment (and your little man provides some solace).  Going forward, maybe there is another donor in the wings that matches your needs - as each day passes, this is a possibility, at least I hope.   

A-Mx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

Tombliboo  I am so sorry what a complete nightmare.  
To be honest the fertility clinic nurses say that many women do get the trigger timing wrong - the most important jab of all!!  which has forced the clinic to open the theatres on Sundays (they are closed) 

L x


----------



## cocochanel1 (Oct 15, 2009)

Tombiloo - this is dreadful news - I can't believe that this could have happened. I am so sorry for you. I hope you manage to sort out next steps soon   
Coco xxx


----------



## Tombliboo (Dec 6, 2009)

Thanks for all your replies. Suitcase, I must be at the same clinic as you were at as they initially offered me a refund less a £750 cancellation fee. Apparently, the donor is entitiled to 'withdraw consent' to use her eggs at anytime until embryos are created so there was never any guarantee that I would have got any eggs even though she had responded well ?!!!?? I know this is rubbish but instead of putting forward a reasoned argument (which I'm quite capable of doing).....I burst out crying!! They then agreed to a full refund. So basically I traded my dignity for £750.....never thought it would be worth so little!

We didn't discuss future treatment but they did invite me in for a review when I felt up to it.

Hey ho - life goes on.....and the sun is shining.......

Tombliboo
xxx


----------



## suitcase of dreams (Oct 7, 2007)

So glad you got your money back, even if it meant giving up a bit of dignity in return - well worth it for £750 I'd say! This is such an emotional process, no wonder you burst into tears, I think the whole IVF journey turns strong, capable, intelligent women into complete wrecks....so don't worry about a few tears  
Unbelievable that they could even question it though - the donor didn't withdraw consent, she stuffed up. And although I'm sure she's feeling as awful about it as you are, afterall, she won't get her attempt this time round either, that's beside the point. 
Personally I'm not using that clinic again because I wasn't happy with the way things were handled on my previous cycles, but that's just my personal opinion and I know many others who have been quite happy with the service they received. 
I've opted to go abroad - better success rates and none of this worry about the donor responding as they always have a back up. Of course it's raised other issues such as non ID release donors but I'm working through that with my counsellor and   for success next time round...

The sun is indeed shining which always makes everything better, and I do hope you find a new donor soon, 
best of luck,
Suitcase
x


----------

