# Any Buddhists???



## Claire1978

Ive read through a couple of posts from Buddhists or people who have an interest in Buddhism but they all seem to be from a couple of years ago now. Is there anyone on here that is having fertility issues and is Buddhist?

Even though I'm not a 'Buddhist' I have been practicing the Buddhist way of life for 12 or so years now, mainly meditating and looking at my own delusions and trying to make sense of where they exist in my life.

I don't really have issue wether IVF fits into Buddhism views but I am struggling with the aspect of causing myself pain through grasping at the need of having a baby.

Just recently I went through an operation to unblock my tubes which when I came around in recovery I was in so much physical pain I was so upset with myself that I had put myself through it. This then turned to anger which is something I don't feel that often now and was a complete shock to me. I never thought I would feel like this after having gone through IVF treatment in August and had to deal with all the spiritual issues that brought up for me. When I say this I mean the emotional aspect of being on the injections and having to deal with the influx of so many emotions that I have learnt to deal with over the years. I a believer in emotional intelligence which is the aspect of Buddhism that drew me to it. 

If there is anyone out there who has been through similar issues relating to this or even had different issues that you have been through, it would be so nice to hear from you and get your views on how you dealt or are dealing with them.


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## katehe

Hi
I have dipped in and out of Buddhism over the years and I was really into it throughout the ivf process and particularly when it failed. I completely understand what you mean as wanting a baby is essentially an attachment, and Buddhism teaches us that pain comes about through attachment. I have not found much about infertility and delusional minds but  I think like any grief, this will be the biggest challenge we will face in terms of attitude of mind affecting our lives. In this sense, we can surely only grow from the process. I often think about whether if I had a choice of going through this or have it happen naturally like everyone else, I' m not sure i would change it as I have so much more empathy for ppl now and any child now, I will be so much more grateful for. So, I guess the process that brings up all these emotions, whilst not enjoyable, have at least given us an opportunity to examine parts of our mind and attachment that we may never have known existed.
I also am learning to ride the waves of emotions from a more distanced perspective, being mindful that there are many unknown triggers out there ready to trip me up! X


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## Claire1978

Thank you katehe for your post. It has been very interesting to read your perspective and the ideas you have on aspects that I posted about.

I particularly like the idea of exploring places which would not of been possible if this situation had not happened and has helped me to see that this is a valuable experience in which I can grow so much, so thank you. 

I do agree that it does allow you to be more empathic and that is always a good way to learn. I listen so much to people (mainly family members) saying why do people who should not have children (there opinion not mine) have them when my husband and I would give a child a great life, are struggling to have them and how unfair it is. I have always said that if the only way for people to appreciate what they have is to go what we are going through then thats not what I would wish on them and hope they find appreciation through other means less painful.

Attachment is the biggy though as for me its the foundations of Buddhism along with delusions that are created by the mind. Both go hand in hand for me. Both cause so much pain on every level, physical, emotional,mentally & spiritually. With trying to eliminate as much as possible from each level of my life and only allowing situations that I can learn from which will further my development, it has been difficult to reconcile whether this path is a necessary one and how far am I willing to go to have a child.

Regret is something I see as a delusion. For me regret does not exist because how can we regret something that is simply beyond our understanding at the time. We learn from understanding and sometimes that means taking a path that maybe seen as wrong to others but is what we need to do to get the understanding to grow. I say this but I cant help feeling in this process that if I don't try everything to have a baby then I'm worried that I will regret it at a later stage. This is very conflicting and leads to disharmany. This journey seems to evoked so many conflictions which we have to deal with. Have you found any conflictions along the way?

For one thing it does allow you to see where more work needs to be done to allow for further growth. This I'm sure I will learn to appreciate along the way. 

Thank you again...it is really nice to be able to chat like this. As much as my hubby will listen and does have some great views sometimes, it is also nice to speak with someone who has a similar way of thinking. I have attended a Buddhist centre on and off for a year but don't feel I can talk about the issues that come up around infertility just yet even though our resident teacher is very approachable & would sit down and talk through all the issues Ive brought up in the post x


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## katehe

Hi Claire
Thanks for your reply. I too have not been brave enough to talk to my resident teacher but I am considering emailing to get a more specific answer about these concerns. One thing I have learned is that it is better to have a pma in terms of sowing the seeds for positive future lives  - I have learned that you cannot live with the raw negative grief forever as you ultimately make yrself and others unhappy but I also acknowledge that it is okay to let it upset you as it is upsetting,if only in this life and with the info we have available to us now.
I also think that negative emotions are helpful as they galvanise us to do something - so the fear of regret in my view is okay as it spurs us on to take action, they way that guilt might. But, I get what you mean about regret and attachment but ultimately we can only act on the info we have avail now. 
I see you are in a similar situation to us in terms of age and low amh- I would love to meet if you live locally, or do let me know of you get any further with the Buddhist perspective as I have so many questions too !
One things for sure, I plan to have a shed load of kids in my next life  
I should also add that I went to 4/5 counselling sessions to help me x


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## hopefullass

Hi 

Hope you don't mind me joining this thread 
I've been struggling with the concept that I'm suffering due to my attachment for a child, although I know it's true. Compassion is honestly something I didn't feel at 1st IVF failed, now yes 4cycles later actually feel how important we should want everyone to be free from suffering. 
We can only be compassionate and kind  to others once we are with ourselves, trying to stop beating myself up and feeling like I've failed. 
It is a very difficult to approach , I have also not brought it up with our resident teacher. Still in earlybdaysvtrying to accept situation and let go my delusions.


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## Claire1978

Hi katehe & hopefullass,

Thanks for both posting  

Just been having a look at your personals and it looks like we're all similar ages & at the same point with our fertility. 

A friend said to me a while back 'your destined for another path' & I've found meditating on this very helpful. Its been far more helpful than the usual 'it will be your time soon' or 'just relax and it will happen' remarks. As much people mean well, sometimes its takes someone who will be honest with you, to give you a different perspective. As much as I would love to have a baby, maybe there are other paths that I'm not being open too because I've aloud the delusion to become so strong. 
I have been trying really hard to look at the delusions that infertility challenges us with since my last post. I find for me anger doesn't really come up for me as much as it did. I've been concentrating on other things in my life. I don't know if it will crop up again or not. I think that's the most difficult thing. You can be ok and getting on with life and out of know where a situation will present itself and show you that you haven't worked through your delusions as much as you thought you had. In other aspects of life I find this much easier to deal with but infertility is going to take a little more work. 

So how are you both and where are you both at right now?

We've just started the clomid after a delay in my cycle since having an operation at Christmas. Not sure how successful it will be with a low AMH but worth giving it a go


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## katehe

Hi Claire
I love 'you're destined for another path' and I also love to think that I will have children in my future lives. The quest is on to live a fulfilling life! 
I haven't been to my class in a long time but I think I will now the nights are longer.
I am learning to live in the moment- I feel happy at the moment and don't feel that yearn that brought so much disappointment ...
Kate


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## wendycat

Hello

I'm glad this thread had started up. I'm interested in Buddhism, though I am not 'formally' following its path - my next step is to go along to the Buddhist centre and take some meditation classes, listen to some lectures- I have always in one way or another found the principles and teachings at a very basic level, a good way of dealing with what has happened to us. 

You are obviously all a bit more knowledgeable than me, I see that as a good thing - I hope you won't mind me discussing and testing out thought processes here! I feel this thread will be a useful door into something I am very interested in, but have no idea where to start!

In my own experience I have found desire - that is- the all consuming desire to have a child leads to very difficult dark feelings - bitterness, jealousy and I find that to work away from that and accept that my journey is different to a 'normal' mothers journey and that I am meant to learn more on a spiritual level on the journey I am on, the best way. Thinking like this clears my mind and allows me to be uncluttered when dealing with others joyful pregnancies, I deal much better without the negative feelings already forming a barrier to experience and joy.

Sorry, waffling!

I just wanted to say hi and your patience with 
A novice is appreciated!

Can any one recommend some good, basic books that will help me get to grips with the basics of Buddhism?

Wendy
X


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## katehe

Hi wendycat
Lovely to hear from you !
I first got into Buddhism thru uni and fortunately where I live in kent- there are centres all over.
If you google 'meditate in kent' - the website has excellent links to the books I follow- some can even be downloaded as an e-book. I think this is a good starting point into the tradition I have followed . I also like books like 'Buddhism for busy people'.I have struggled to 'swallow' all of the religious aspects but at is basic level- having mindfulness and knowing you are able to control your own inner world is truly incredible and leaves you more empowered day to day. I have also found the app 'headspace' useful in learning to meditate in our active lives.
I am not an an expert - I just go along to a drop in class when I'm beginning to feel wobbly. However, I did have a Buddhist wedding, as it is the religion  (more of a psychology) that I can buy into the most!
Kate x


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## wendycat

Thank you for the welcome x


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## hopefullass

Hi and welcomeWendycat

Eight steps to happiness is good easy book to get started or Modern Buddism. 
I tend to dip in and out of it, need to try and get into a routine. Should it has helped me a lot especially 
With feelings of anger and why me. 
By focusing on the suffering of others and having compassion does make you count your blessings, without taking away that your situation may be difficult. 

Claire hopefully doin a FET in a month   lonely blasto makes it.


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