# INSEMINATION DAY OF SURGE OR DAY AFTER - DIFFERS ON NET



## Jue jue (Feb 26, 2011)

Naural cycle - No Meds - follicle on Friday x 2 13 mm/1.1cm  (I understand follicles can grow between 1 and 2 mm per day).

Apologies i had to start a new topic as am due in for  donor iui tomorrow and still unsure of what to do.

  No surge this morning


If i get a surge tomorrow am should i go in for diui  same day or should I wait til Tuesday?

Fertility nurse is saying Monday.


Seems to be differing views on whether to have insemination day of surge or 12 24 hrs after. 

Anyone out there know?


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## some1 (May 13, 2006)

Hello Jue jue

I replied to your post on the intro board yesterday re timing of IUI.  My clinic's approach to natural IUI (i.e. when you don't have any fertility drugs at all) was to test each morning with first urine using an ovulation test and when you get a positive ring the clinic to book IUI for the following day.  So, in your situation, my clinic would be saying IUI on Tuesday (if positive test on Monday morning).  

It is true that it is best for the sperm to be 'waiting' for the egg rather than the other way around, but as donor sperm may only live 24 hours (although possibly longer), clinics usually try to time IUI for as close to ovulation as possible.

You must be having a horrible time trying to decide what to do   .  Could you do another ovulation test this evening to see it there is any sign of your surge beginning?  Have you got fertile mucus? (egg white consistency, slippery, wet - you may have to have a poke and a prod to check if it is not too   ).  This is a really good sign of impending ovulation.

Some1

xx


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## Jue jue (Feb 26, 2011)

Hi Some1,

Sorry did't see your post, still getting used to the board.

Yes I could do another ovulation test before going to bed thanks.

No mucus at all yet. 

Am just frustrated really, but it just seems that clinics differ.  If I get the surge monday will ask can I go in Tuesday and will be sure to chat with the Doctor then and try and get some answers. 

Am off alcohol completely the last month and would love a glass of red, but will resist.  I said at the beginning of this I will do my very best and that is all I can do. Thanks some1 nice to hear someone out there.  did you get a scan as well prior to iui?


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## Jue jue (Feb 26, 2011)

Hi again some1, 

i just see your iui diary and am going to have a read  thanks for the link


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## some1 (May 13, 2006)

Jue jue - if you can't have wine, I think you will just have to go for chocolate instead!  

Re scans - for my first 4 IUIs I didn't have any scans or drugs at all, just used ovulation tests and had IUI the day after I got a positive test.  On IUI 5 and 6 (which both resulted in pregnancies), I had clomid (a fertility drug) at the start of my cycle and regular scans to help with IUI timing, then had pregnyl (an injection to make you ovulate) around 36 hours before IUI.

Clinics do all differ to a degree, but it certainly sounds like your clinic may be 'shooting in the dark' a bit more than most!  I think in the end you just have to follow your gut instinct - wishing you loads of   

Some1

xx


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## eli..g (May 9, 2006)

Hi

For me 3 attempts day after surge (ie getting surge monday morning going in tuesday morning) all negative

4th attempt started testing at night, got surge sunday night went in monday am, got a positive.  now a 2 1/2 year old.

I always had mucus well after ovulation, so I wouldn't rely on that myself again. 

Go with your heart, or trust clinic... it a tough call isn't it xxxx


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## LinLou (Jun 28, 2009)

Hi Jue Jue

I had my DIUI on Monday just gone.  I started to have cervical mucus last Sunday (did not test positive Sunday morning on Ovulation test kit) so just instinctively knew that the test would show up positive the next day.  Sure enough it showed up positive Monday morning (exactly 14 days after day one of my period - amazing how the body works!).  I am at the ARGC in London and went in the day the surge showed up and they took an LH blood test to get a more accurate reading to show exactly how close to ovulation I was and also did a scan.  They said they would asses the results and then they would decide whether to go ahead that day or to come back the next day (Tue ). I got to the clinic 9am on Monday and waited for hours for blood test to come back and ended up having the go ahead for Monday and had the IUI it at 4pm on Monday.  

I am so glad I didnt go in the day after the surge showed up as there was a bit of confusion at the clinic as one doctor on my day 9 scan told me to come in the day the test showed positive but another doctor wrote in my notes to come in the day after.  I didnt know about the advice in my notes so just went by what i was told but when I arrived on Monday morning the nurse told me to come back the next day but as I was here I may as well have a blood test done and sure enough, I was ready for insem!  

I think you should test tonight as well as tomorrow morning to see if your surge has already started because if it has I would say have it done tomorrow but if it hasnt then maybe you need to wait until Tuesday, alternatively get the clinic to do a LH surge blood test tomorrow as they should be able to tell how close to ovulation you are by that.  I am surprised that clinics just rely on the ovulation test kit and don't do a blood test because, if you are only doing the test every 24 hours, although, for example, it shows up in the morning, you could have started surging the night before and be quite close to ovulation or you may have only just started so they are not that accurate... - I hope all goes well   I have another week left of my 2ww so I am so hoping my timing was right - it felt right for me - nobody knows your body more than yourself so go with your instinct. 

Linlou x


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## Jue jue (Feb 26, 2011)

HI 

thanks for the comments.

A bit worried when i read my clinic shooting in the dark but feel deep down this could be correct.

Will test now before bed and take it from there.  If no surge will leave will phone and leave message to cancel mondays i think.  And if i get surge monday am will go in on the Tuesday.  think that makes sense


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## Jue jue (Feb 26, 2011)

HI 

I thought would give update.

No surge late last night, so cancelled this mornings appt.  

Mucus is there today alright and feel there could be something happening. will test tonight again and have a feeling will get this surge.

so my appt is now made for tomorrow pm at 1.15.  i hope that is ok and not too late , God such worrying.

what does anyone think time wise?  REally appreciate this communication.  Have told  not one person about this. as it does not feel right to


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## LinLou (Jun 28, 2009)

Hi there  - I personally think if you are having mucus today and you surge tonight that sounds good to have iui Tom afternoon - definitely not too late - if you dont surge tonight but do tomorrow then not sure - I guess you have to trust your clinic  - it is so hard but I always thought it was better for the sperm to be waiting for the egg than the other way round as an egg only lives for 12 hours once released x x


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## Jue jue (Feb 26, 2011)

Lin Lou,

I want to thank you for that advice.

Will  see if there is a surge tonight, will be heading to bed about 12.30. 

So fingers crossed.

J


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## Jue jue (Feb 26, 2011)

Just read  interest findings from a study online about natural cycle

]CONCLUSION: Our study suggested that lunch-time is the best time to check for the LH surge
using urine dipsticks and insemination at any time between 18 and 53 h after the onset of the surge 


Just did another ovulation test and no surge detected,  will test tomorrow at 7am as have to ring clinic before 7 if i am going to cancel


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## Jue jue (Feb 26, 2011)

So no surge last night  

Did "feel" like something changing with body and mucus (a little) present

Used the ovulation kit just now, and  result was differnent in that there was another line as well as the control line but
very faint which I understand should not be taken as positive.

So i cancelled the appointment.  this is CD13

Left a message with clinic to ring me today


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## Jue jue (Feb 26, 2011)

Hi ,

I bought the smiley face kits and used one at about 1. 15 today.  Smile appeared and so contacted the clinic.

It seems there were changes there at 7am this morning and heightened suge then in the afternoon. 

My clinic booked me in for 12 tomorrow afternoon, I hope that aint too late?


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## LinLou (Jun 28, 2009)

Hi Jue

Great news - that sounds about right 24 hours later - good luck  

Take care

Linlou


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## Jue jue (Feb 26, 2011)

Thanks Linlou 

I  was kinda feeling  excited for a short time there, but  now wonder should I test  LH levels again in the morning and what happens if no surge?  

Do I cancel jesus didnt think of that


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## some1 (May 13, 2006)

Jue jue - the timing sounds just right!  Don't torture yourself with another test - even if it was negative it wouldn't mean anything, surges can be short and sharp or longer, all that matters is that you pick it up towards the start rather than towards the end and it sounds like you have done just that!  Sending you loads of    for tomorrow!

Some1

xx


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## Jue jue (Feb 26, 2011)

Aw thanks so much  Will just relax so now.  actually have to do some study. Thanks again.


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## Starz (Aug 24, 2008)

Just wanted to add that your timing sounds just right. I've had two children with DIUI and natural cycles and just had treatment for a third. Went with the same timing as you and it worked for me, second attempt each time.

Now just sit back and relax!


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## Jue jue (Feb 26, 2011)

Thanks for sharing that Starz.

I think the problem here is that different clinics have different "policies" it seems so maybe this is due to lack of regulation i dont know.

The resarch online can be contradictory as well when it comes to timing

http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/20/9/2542.full

Will try and get an early night now

/links


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## LinLou (Jun 28, 2009)

Jue sounds perfect timing to me do stop worrying - good luck today - thinking of you  

Linlou x


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## Jue jue (Feb 26, 2011)

Hey,

Attended  clinic for DIUI this afternoon approx.  29 hrs after the first L.H. change and follicles  x 2 on friday (day 9) morning measuring 13mm.

Apart from the doctor finding a polyp (anyone experience these) that  I need to have examined by my own  G.P.  all went as well as can be expected. I was back in work this afternoon and my day went on.

I cannot say enough about how good the nurse and the doctor were and all questions I asked were answered. Ive been told I can make contact with the fertility at any time leave a message and she will get back to me so delighted with that.

During the procedure the doctor  said he had to tilt the womb so  kinda "pinched" it with some kinda clamp instrument.  That was sore but nothing too awful .  Not as bad as a colposcopy.  A little blood afterwards but so far (5 hours later) no discomfort or anything.

I asked about the possiblity of meds for the next cycle or increasing the amount of scans .  They feels because my cycle is regular and at 28 29 days clomid could put it out of kilter and apparantly to have the trigger you have to be taking clomid also.  it made sense when i heard it anyhow will continue with research and try and increase chances for the next cycle.

Was very calm anyway which is really down to the support here which prepared me as best as i could be prepared so thanks for comments and reassuring words.


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## LinLou (Jun 28, 2009)

Hi Jue Jue

Sounds perfect timing - am thinking of you.

I didnt realise you was an ARGC girl - just seen you on Feb/March thread.

You are in safe hands at this clinic.

Wow you had 2 folicles on natural cycle - were they both juicy big ones?  Did they do a blood test for your LH surge yesterday? 

Take care on 2ww and keep in touch.

- have just posted on ARGC Feb/Mar thread so speak to you on there

Linlou x


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## Jue jue (Feb 26, 2011)

HI Lou Lou, no I am not ARGC to be honest didnot see that when i posted on the  other board. sorry for confusion


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## urbangirl (Jul 28, 2010)

Hi, I had my first IUI last month.  Aren't scans the best way to check the right timing?  I totally rely on them.  When I was using sticks in the past they never showed I was ovulating, but I got pregnant anyway just by doing the necessary on days 10-15 (lost them in the end though).  So, now I have scans to show me the follicle has reached optium size, then I take a shot to make ovulation happen- Jue jue, why do you think you can't do that with a natural iui? On all my 'natural' cycles I still use something like Ovitrelleif the follicles have reached a certain size but still haven't ovulated,  to make sure it happens and so that I can time everything so I don't miss the optimum times.  For my next cycle I'm going to have 2 inseminations 20 hours apart though because what you said about the frozen sperm only lasting 24 hours has got me a bit worried, so I'll have a double dose from now on just to be on the safe side.


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## Jue jue (Feb 26, 2011)

Hiya,


Did you get pregnant on iui and how many cycles did it take?

clinic say I can basically have whatever I feel I need however they are not too keen on meds and prefer for a radiologist 
to interpret the scans so they refer to another clinic for that.  In saying that they will  give clomid and trigger if i want it for the next cycle and say that the trigger goes hand in hand with clomid ie it cannot be given on its own.  Does that make sense to you

Am thinking and researching for next cycle now to increase my chances, so will do a scan on say day 9.  I got lh  surge this cycle day 13  and went in for insemination 29 hours after. so what day do you think i should have the second scan would it be day 12? 

What is Ovitrelle?  How large were the follicles prior to insemination for you?  

From what I have read  2 inseminations doesnt increase chances, thats just what I read mind you and need to do alot more.


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## urbangirl (Jul 28, 2010)

Hi, it was my first IUI, in Feb, so I'm still waiting.  The times I got pregnant were with timed intercourse and with timed intercourse (using scans) + stimulating drugs.
For this IUI I didn't take any drugs to stimulate the follicles, it was a natural cycle. I can't take stimulating drugs now because I am going to have ivf soon and they give me cysts (Gonal F, that is. I don't take Chlomid because apparently it's not effective for over 40's), which delays your ivf cycle. 

I had a scan on day 8 and the follicle was already 20mm. I had the next scan first thing in the morning on Day 10 and it was 23 mm, so I took a Pregnyl shot then to force ovulation, because it was a Friday and the clinic was closed at the weekend, so I kind of had to force ovulation to happen because I couldn't have waited until Monday to have my IUI, it would have been too late.  I then had the IUI later that day. If it hadn't been the weekend I might have continued taking scans and booked my IUI accordingly, when I ovulated naturally. 

With scans people normally have the first one on day 9 (not me though because I always ovulate early) and you and they work out when to have the next one from what size your follicles are.  For instance, if your follicles are only 10mm then you would probably be advised to wait 3 or 4 days till the next one.  I just use scans because, like I said, the surge things aren't reliable enough for me, I feel much more confident tracking the follicle size and deciding with the doctor the best time for the IUI from that. I listen to my body as well though, if I feel that things are progressing faster than expected I book another scan, even if they say I should wait a few days, because they don't always get it right.  In fact, I can tell you that sometimes they get it spectacularly wrong. I've been using scans for timed intercourse with and without gonal f, because I just can't afford, at my age, to leave anything to chance anymore. If I was 30 it would be a different story.

Ovitrelle is an HSG drug that forces ovulation.  Ovulation normally occurs around 36 hours after, but it depends (as I understand it) how close you were to ovulation when you took the shot.  I want to have two IUI's next time because I think it must increase your chances if for instance, the first IUI was a little bit too early and all the sperm had died before you ovulated!  Not exactly scientific, but that's the way I feel.


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## Jue jue (Feb 26, 2011)

Hi Urbangirl.

To comment first on the 2 inseminations, I totally agree , you have to do what you feel is right instinctively and listening to your body can only be a good thing.  How old are you can I ask?  Your follicles on day 8 being 20 is great, mine were only 13 on day 9, but nurse was happy with that, so again everyone different, i know.  Not sure how much the are supposed to grow per day.  Any idea?

As i say I am on my 2ww and feel no different as yet (diui occurred wed. so thats only3 days).  I feel pretty calm interestingly enough and want to prepare myself with knowledge for the next cycle.  But of course i could be extremely lucky and it could happen first time although the odds are stocked against me i know.

Will continue with my usual routine as best I can.  Am studying at the moment so it keeps my mind off it  a little.  

When is your 2ww up?


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## urbangirl (Jul 28, 2010)

Hi, I'm 43, I wasted a lot of time doing timed intercourse, now I know I should have stepped up to IUI and ivf about a year ago.   It's because of my age that I'm thinking of doubling up my IUI's, the more the merrier I say!

9mm on day 9 is fine, that sounds standard to me.  As for the rate of growth, average is 2.5mm a day I think, but it just depends. Last year I had follicle that was just 3mm on day 13 and then it jumped 10mm in 3 days.  I wish I could do my IUI with Gonal,the success rates are better, but I have to prioritise my ivf now.  I'm on Day 31, but my 'stick' tests are all showing negative, so I think it's all the progesterone I'm taking that is delaying my AF. 

It definitely can happen first time, I got pregnant the first time I tried, though unfortunately it was not to be.  Good luck, I hope it's worked for you    if not we all just have to keep on trying!


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## tricky77 (Aug 25, 2010)

hi all,
sorry if this is a bit of a dumb question, but do you think it matters if you use two different types of ovulation test kits per day if i want to test twice each day?
basically, i splashed out on the clearblue ovulation monitor and sticks, so have been using that each morning, but then my clinic advised that i should test twice a day from day 14 onwards....but, i dont think i can use the monitor twice in one day, as i think that will mess up its day count or something...so, do you reckon its fine to just use the "smiley face" test sticks in the afternoon/evening as my second test of the day?

we are due to try our first attempt at IUI (natural cycle with no drugs) this month, but i have being "peeing on sticks" for the last couple of months anyway, just to get a vague idea as to when i may surge. The last couple of months i seem to be surging around day 20.....is that normal, or a bit late??

i also seem to surge on a friday...which is ok as my clinic is open on saturdays....but its shut on sunday, so am nervous that there is a chance i may surge on a saturday and miss this month...which would be such a pain, as we just want to get on and start trying now...anyway, ramble ramble...


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## Jue jue (Feb 26, 2011)

Hi Tricky

I  am 8 days post  first natural DIUI so , no meds, no trigger no injection and used the clear blue dip sticks with the  control
line.  On the day of my surge I just happened to buy the smiley faced ones as the others were not available and got surge on cycle day 13. i think it was and had iui the following afternoon. 

Everyone has a different cycle so if the clinic  ask you to test twice daily after day 20 that sounds ok to me but i am no expert at this i have to say.  How long is your cycle normally?  What date are you going in for your treatment?  
Jue


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## tricky77 (Aug 25, 2010)

hi Jue.....thanks for your reply, and my fingers are firmly crossed for you!!
my cycle is usually somewhere between 30-35 days.....so i guess the fact that i have seem to have my surge around day 20 is a bit later than normal, but my clinic recommended i test twice a day from day 14, i guess in case my cycle varies month to month.
i havent got an appointment booked in yet for treatment - they have just said that i should call them when i get my surge and then they book me in the for following day.....so just have to hope that i dont get it over the weekend!


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## Jue jue (Feb 26, 2011)

Aw thanks you too


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