# Single women CONSIDERING donor eggs



## GIAToo

Hi all,

I have started this new thread because I don't feel there is anywhere for someone who is in the transition of moving from own eggs to donor eggs to discuss there concerns, pros and cons about donor eggs, when they haven't actually made the decision to move to donor eggs and may still want to try with their own eggs.  Obviously it is a highly personal journey and some take longer to get to the DE route than others.

As most of you will already know, I have only had one cycle of IVF and if money were no object then I wouldn't hesitate in trying OE IVF quite a few times.  Although, having said that, it is not just the money, but also my age that bothers me (as I said this is a very personal journey and I don't want to offend anyone) but I want to be pregnant sooner rather than later. My consultant has given me an 8% chance of success with my OE, so not good odds.   (Having previously given me a 28% chance of success).

Therefore I am considering using donor eggs. I have been to see the counsellor at my clinic specifically to discuss this and it was really helpful to do that, but there are still so many things I am worried about.  If I use anonymous donor eggs, will the child resent me for it?  How will I deal with other people's negativity about the route I have taken?  The counsellor said I need to grow a very thick skin and I'm not sure if I would cope with people being judgemental about the DE thing.  I was listening to people call in to a radio show this morning about the "egg raffle" and people were so vehemently against the concept of DE.  However I don't think my family would have a problem with it at all - I KNOW my parents don't have a problem, bless them.  I'm sure you will tell me that it is more important that those close to me are the important ones, but I am just airing all my worries here.

I did also have a worry about the child growing up and "leaving" me to find their biological mother (assuming I went for ID released donor) and I had a good chat with the counsellor about that.  She said it was the same fear that adoptive parents have, it's perfectly natural and rarely happens.  So I felt better about that.

I'm probably not making much sense or being very articulate about all of this.  Some people say I should definitely give it another go with my OE, but it certainly seems a bit futile to me.  I am trying to be practical, have asked to be added to DEgg and DEmbryo waiting lists at Reprofit and then I see pictures of myself and my Mum as babies, and get all upset again.

I know I don't need to decide any of this right now, but I just wanted a place to talk about my struggle.  I hope that's okay and as I say, I haven't made the decision to give up on my own eggs yet.......

I'm sure there are lots of other things that are worrying me that I've forgotten, but I think I'll just get the thread going 'cos I doubt I'm the only one in this position.

 to everyone
GIA Tooxx


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## jwb

Hi GIAToo
Good luck whatever you decide. We decided to have 2-3 tries with my own eggs (initially 3 but DH was pushing for 2 after we bled early on my second try) then we would have gone abroad for donar eggs. We just couldn't cope with the heartbreak of it all and anything which so dramatically improves our chances seems a good idea. I agree with the coucellor that you almost never hear of adopted children rejecting their parents (and that can even happen even to genetic parents).
I'm sure there are loads more knowledgable people on this forum but good luck you sound like you will be a great family.
Janet


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## some1

GIAToo -  such a difficult issue (for most of us, although I knowsome have moved on to donor eggs easily). I really feel for you hun, it is such an individual thing with no easy answers. A couple of year ago (before my miracle happened) I was doing some reading around this subject and posted a link that I had found helpful. I'm posting it again here in case it is at all helpful to you 

Article about coming to terms with using donor eggs, called "Infertility and the emotional aspects of having a child through donor eggs".

http://www.4therapy.com/consumer/life_topics/item.php?seeresults=1&uniqueid=5902&categoryid=495

Some1

xx

/links


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## GIAToo

Some1 - thank you so much - I've just read the link and    again.  This is the bit that struck home "In addition to the loss of your genetic child, you may feel a loss of the opportunity to love the “baby you.” The loss of the opportunity to love a part of you (your genetic child) in the way that you wish you would had been loved as a child, is very painful.", but it was really useful to see the phases that people go through.

jwb - thank you for your kind words   and you are absolutely right about genetic kids leaving.   

I've thought of a couple more things I wanted to say.  My Dad was worried that if I had a baby with DE and he changed his will to incorporate his only grandchild, that my brother would try to say that it was not my real baby (long story about my brother   & fully illustrates jwb's point about genetic kids).  I know that isn't a problem legally at all, but I thought it was so sweet of my Dad to worry about it. The other thing I wanted to say was I know some single women have said that they found the move to DE easier because they were already using donor sperm, but for me my feelings are the complete opposite, i.e. because I am already having to use DS, I want to "recognise" at least half of the child (goodness, that sounds so awful doesn't it, I hope you know what I mean!) Once again just opening my brain and pouring everything out.  

GIA Tooxx


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## Felix42

GIA Too, just wanted to send you lots of  for coming to the best decision for you on the way forward. The more you can take the pressure off yourself the better by creating as many options/plan bs etc and exploring our understandable conflicting emotions around this brave new world of assisted conception also really helps. 

I've found the following book of interest in exploring emotions around using donors (whether sperm or eggs) and would recommend it:

'Mommies, Daddies, Donors, Surrogates: Answering Tough Questions and Building Strong Families' by Diane Ehrensaft. 

Love & hugs, Felix xx


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## Damelottie

Hello GIA2

I don't think anything you have said sounds awful at all. This is a very personal and important decision and you need to feel as comfortable as possible if you do ever go ahead with DE.

As you know I was one of the VERY lucky ones who found using donor eggs easy but I am definitely in the minority there   . The counselling is a big part of this and it isn't a decison that can be rushed    

Felix - I shall have a look for that book. It sounds interesting

LL xxxxx


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## suitcase of dreams

Hi there,

Unlike LL, I'm probably one of the ones who found the decision very hard. Infact if you search on some of my previous posts and threads, you'll see how angry and sad and confused I was when I was told I needed to move to DE  
And if I'm brutally honest, even though I've had one DE cycle, I'm still struggling a little with the whole thing sometimes...I just take heart from the stories of women who have successfully got pg with double donation and how the donor aspect fades very much into the background once you are pg/have your baby in your arms...

My sister has 3 kids and they all look a lot like our side of the family (not sure what happened to hubbie's genes!) - I babysit regularly and people often comment on how similar the kids look to me, particularly my eldest niece who is often mistaken for my daughter (a very bittersweet experience for me I can tell you  )
I was really sad that my child/ren would not look like me, or my family, or their cousins and it took me a long time to get over that which is such an emotional and irrational thing really - I mean if I was having kids the 'usual' way with a partner, there's no guarantee the kids would look like me - after all my sister's hubby has ended up with 3 kids who don't look much like him! But it took me a long time to get over that, and I'm not sure I even have really, I'm just hoping that once I have my baby, I'll fall in love with it, regardless whether it actually looks like me or not

I've also done a lot of research into our family history and was very sad that my child would not be genetically linked to all the ancestors I had learnt so much about. Counselling helped me understand that a place on the family tree is not about blood/genes alone...that if I nuture the child in the womb, give birth to it, love it, care for it and bring it up, then that child is as much a part of our family as one which came from my own eggs...

One thing I didn't worry too much about was what other people would think. I know I have the support of my family and friends and although I also know there will be others in the wider world, especially anyone who reads the Daily Mail (!) who will disapprove of my choices, I figure that anyone who has not experienced infertility has no right to judge or condemn. I guess one does need to develop a bit of a thick skin, but at least there is a fantastic support network here on FF and you know there will always be like minded people to share your experiences with, and importantly other children for your child to be in contact with. I firmly believe that you have to take responsibility for your own happiness and make your own choices - no good looking back and regretting not doing something because you are worried what people will think. I know it's easy to say that, and much harder when you are actually faced with the negative comments, but I just keep reminding myself how much support there is out there and how the negative comments are the minority...

As others have said, this is a huge decision and not one lightly taken. It's great that your clinic has a good counsellor to talk things through with - I found counselling invaluable and still see my counsellor regularly (is not through the clinic but she does specialise infertility counselling)
There are no rights and wrongs here, everyone has different concerns and worries and fears, and we all have to find our own path to the right course of action

I do hope you find the right path for you soon, take care
Suitcase
x


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## hjanea

Hi GIAToo, I'm sort of in the same position in that I don't really have the money to spend on OEivf with its small chance of success when I could have several attempts at donor embryo on CR for the same cost. I am coming to terms with it. It maybe easier as i already have a dd, but then one of my main reasons for wanting another child is for her to have a sibling and of course it wouldn't be a biologically linked sibling if it were not from my egg.
I have though thought long and hard and if I was allowed (after following the process of course) to adopt a baby I wouldn't turn that opportunity down, so I suppose embryo adoption is like that except that you have carried and nurtured the baby.
My dd sees her dad frequently(4-7 times a week) and his mum at least weekly and I can see aspects of her personality that are from his side not mine (we are down to earth, commonsense, and they are drama queen hypochondriacs!!!LOL!), but would those aspects have come out if she didn't have the contact with them-I don't know? And that aspect that I might have a child that would be very different from me in outlook and personality worries me perhaps more that what the others have said about it looking like me.
But I'm afraid that as a single mum, with limited resources, the common sense treatment path for me has to be the donor egg route. And I feel that I would rather have a child that wasn't genetically mine than no child at all, which is what it might boil down to unless I win the lottery!
Its hard to make what will be the best choice isn't it.
H.xxx


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## Baby Blue

This is such a difficult and emotional subject.  I have many thoughts on this subject, some stronger than others, all new and evolving as time goes by...  

What I do know for sure is that if I have to have a donor egg then I would love my baby just as much as a genetically related baby.

Baby Blue


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## kittenorcub

GIAtoo

thank you so much for starting this thread - we have actually booked for embryo donation (double donation obviously) in June but if I am honest I still have doubts about losing the chance to have a baby with my own eggs, even though the chances of having a healthy baby with my eggs is very low. 

I have thought all the things you wrote - and I relate to everything that everyone else has written. This is so hard. just like suitcase, i am hoping that if I am lucky enough to get pg i will lose all those worries and just be thankful that we finally have the family of three that we have always wanted.

I worry about so many things that were not an issue with my pgs. i try and think of positive things about donor gametes - but right now I guess i am just scared of the unknown - scared that the child may reject me/us, scared about what we even tell them - if we tell them - etc etc.

Kitten


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## wishingforanangel

GIAToo

I'm in the same boat as you. I thought I was prepared to go the donor egg situation because my odds are better and I felt okay about it because I always thought I would adopt. Like you I don't have too much money in the bank anymore after all the cycles I've been through, so egg donation would be better for me. But a part of me wants to go through an estrogen priming protocol knowing my chances really suck. 

I don't worry that my kid would hate me if I go through the donor egg route...I worry what tell my kid about his/her background. I worry about whether or not he/she will struggle with the issue of his/her biological parents give him/her up...when that was never the case. Then I also worry that if my child belongs to a culture that is not the same as mine (if somehow I end up at Retrofit or in Spain)...I worry I am going to encounter some crazy racist here in the United States and I'm going to be physically hurt if I am running around after the baby. I worry that sometimes unintentional things will be said and hurt the baby.

I am left confused as to what to do too...do I use my head and go for egg donation or follow my heart and do a protocol that will have awful odds. But if you do try your own eggs again...I don't know if this is any comfort to you...Nikki did mention to me in a PM essentially that if you have time to shore up your finances then egg donors will always be there. I think my decision is difficult to make because I don't think I want to wait for another year or two to try again if the estrogen priming protocol fails.

Thank god for your father being concerned about your future child. Hopefully your brother will never have the bad attitude of not feeling like he has a true nephew or niece but if he does hopefully he will change his mind. Maybe if does have the attitude and you feel you really want him to be part of your child's life then maybe explain that family is a state of mind just as much as it is genetics (I known my best friend for 20 years now and I consider her, her husband, and her son as family).


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## blueytoo

GIAT - It's great that you have started this thread as with my history donor eggs is something I have to consider too, particularly as on my last IVF cycle I ended up with only one embryo which was a complete surprise after all my other cycles. I just can't get my head around donor eggs. I have a son, so for a start as well as not sharing a father, any child born via donor eggs would not have the same bio-mum either. I worry that it is too much "otherness" to put on a child when you add in the single parent issue as well.  

I was very upset when my DS was born with black hair as I am blonde, and he still doesn't look anything like me at all. His hair is now a dirty blonde but we don't share the same eye colour too. It's silly but when he was a baby, I just wanted to see some of myself in him and didn't. 

I think there could be a lot of resentment if I went that route, the child would not be related to me or my son and I think it would be really weird for them   I know from having considered adoption for many years, reading the adoption uk boards for years and having several friends that were adopted, that some children do reject their parents and are very angry as they grow up and that also concerns me a great deal. 

It is very easy for many people to see donor eggs as a quick fix to this journey too, yet if you've been on these boards as long as I have, you will find/see many people for whom it has still taken 4,5,6 or more attempts to get pregnant. Yes some are very lucky and get pregnant on their first or second tries, but that tends to happen to the single women on here who have no fertility issues at all and are just having fertility treatment because they have no partner. If you have infertility issues then it is a whole different ball game. I think for that reason the single women boards are very misleading, and it is helpful to read other donor egg threads. 

I'm hoping that I will never have to make the decision to be honest. I would try surrogacy abroad first before doing donor eggs as the genetic connections is still, at the moment, so very important to me.

A change of protocol might help you produce more/better quality eggs too. If your consultant isn't open to this, make an appointment with Jaya Parikh as she will be more than willing to discuss that with you.

Claire xx


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## GIAToo

Wow! I'm glad I started this thread too, firstly it's really helping me to "flesh out" some of my thought processes and secondly, I'm glad if it can be of any use to anyone else going through the same issue.

Felix - thanks for the info on the book, I'm going to order it today   Hope you're ok! 

LL - I wish I was more like you...and then when I look at pictures of Alfie I do wonder "what am I worried about??"  

Suitcase - funnily enough your post really pointed something out to me - I don't really look like ANY of my family!!  There's always been jokes in our family about my Mum's milkman!!  When I thought about that after reading your post, I again thought "what am I worried about?" in terms of whether they'll look like me or not. When I first thought about this (single motherhood), my first choice was to adopt abroad from China or Vietnam and just recently I was thinking "I don't understand why I'd be ok with a child that looks nothing like me if I adopted". After speaking to the counsellor at the Lister, I realised I was more comfortable with that because OTHER people would be more comfortable because adoption has been around and an accepted part of society for so long. I know there would have been people against it, but generally adoption is more accepted. On the family tree and genetic link thing, I was watching one of those "Who Do You Think You Are?" and somebody (can't remember who it was) found out that an Aunt or Grandmother wasn't genetically linked to the family and they said the same as your counsellor, that it didn't matter and they were very much part of the family.

hjanea - _"I feel that I would rather have a child that wasn't genetically mine than no child at all, which is what it might boil down to unless I win the lottery!"_ - that's how I'm feeling on most days - and then I start saying things out loud to someone about my OE and end up crying!!  It's not easy is it?

Baby Blue - I've no doubt I would love the baby, I've just got to get over the mental block I'm having 

Kittenorcub - it is so hard. The whole tell them/not tell them is a very personal thing and sometimes I think our society has gone too far down the being open route. I personally would tell, and I have a friend with double donation twin boys and she and her DH are also planning to tell, but I can understand why people wouldn't want to. 

Wishing - I too have thought that I would have time to save up for DE, but as I said for me, I want a baby sooner rather than later and in some ways that is more important to me than using my OE ...in some ways . I don't want to waste months/years and money pursuing something at such small odds. Psychologically I'd rather try a few IUIS (3-5%, rahter than the 8% chance of IVF) and then I think (don't know obviously) I would feel ready to move on to DE. I believe that if I was with a partner and ttc naturally I would have a much better chance at conceiving with my own eggs. Now some people may not believe that, but I do and as with placebo drugs, what we "believe" plays a very powerful part in how we succeed. I don't believe that IVF is worth it and therefore would be going in with the wrong mindset. I may still be convinced otherwise yet.....

Blueytoo - your point about your DS not looking much like you (I'm sure he has plenty of your mannerisms etc now!  ) reiterates my point about myself not really looking like my Mum or Dad or ANYONE in the family, either side. For me I always find it amazing when siblings don't look like eachother because my Mum and her sisters look like peas in a pod and my Dad looks just like all of his siblings! But everyone is different. I have a picture of my Mum when she was 2 years old and when I look at that I get upset 'cos I want a child that looks just like her, but even with my OE there is no gurantee of that is there?

This is really helping me ladies so thank you. Sorry if my ramblings went a bit wayward to the points you raised.

Lots of   for everyone.
GAI Tooxx


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## kittenorcub

GIAtoo
Just like you I flip - first one way then the other - I am getting a bit panicked now because I thought I had resolved this in my mind, but now it is booked, I am having all those doubts resurfacing again.

I have been TTC for more than 10 years now - I have tried with my own eggs/Dhs sperm for 4 IVfs and the devastation of failure (2 mcs - one post 12 weeks, one at about 7-8 weeks) - I have to remember how that felt when I think about this because each time I have wondered why my eggs were so useless, what went wrong, whether I am fighting my age trying to keep going with my "old" eggs etc.

I have started to make a "pros and Cons" list to help me - and guess what? so far I seem to have more pros for using donor embryos than cons!! and yet still I am still wavering? . Maybe this is just the "pre show" jitters - you know, while we wait we are over thinking things but once we get going it will be better.

Unlike Ladylottie we know that we could not adopt - it is just not for us, so clearly in our mind, the fact that I will carry this baby is a factor. It is not therefore, only about genes.

I do look like my Mum and Dad - and I look like my siblings. But we don't really look like our grandparents, so maybe I am worrying too much about all of that? my DH has been doing some genealogy about his family tree and has found many instances of "dilution" of the genes and possible half siblings who the family have no idea about. Interestingly DH seems to have no real issues about moving to donor sperm. It seems to be me bringing up my fears.

_"After speaking to the counsellor at the Lister, I realised I was more comfortable with that because OTHER people would be more comfortable because adoption has been around and an accepted part of society for so long. I know there would have been people against it, but generally adoption is more accepted."_

I think this is really my problem - I worry about how my much this very wanted child will deal with their "otherness" if we choose to tell them, bearing in mind Society's very bigoted views to anything to do with assisted conception, and in particular donor gametes. But if we do not go down this route then we may never have a family, and I wonder which will be worse - will the fact that I have stayed within Society's acceptable limits, be any consolation if I never have a child? No!!! I look at Felix's lovely Bump and think "I want that to be me!!!"

I have no idea about whether we will/will not tell - that worries me because I really wanted to have that settled in my mind before our tx in May/June. Am I a bad person for thinking about not telling anyone (including the child?) - will the guilt that I feel about that haunt me? If we do tell, how will we protect our child from playground teasing, people's negative views, the fact that we will not know the donor's details?

This whole debate is helping me too - thank you so much!

Kitten


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## wishingforanangel

GIAToo

If your chances at IVF with your OE is not really any better than IUI then I say go for it with the IUI (try IUI for 1 cycle). If it works then cool but if doesn't maybe it will help you in your decision with IVF with DE. 

I guess my experience with my old RE wasn't very good in the sense that she didn't run any tests on me so I didn't exactly know what my fertility issues were. I am left wondering if I did have the tests then maybe I would have tried the estrogen priming protocol earlier as part of my 5 failed cycles...But it sounds like you have had a better experience with your doctor so you may already know what your fertility causes are....Don't know if that makes any sense. Course I could be having pre-DE jitters like kittenorcub. I think I really won't be able to decided until I am actually ready to start my final cycle.

I think it won't hurt you if you try one cycle of IUI in London since Retrofit appears to have a wait list for DE.

Sorry if this is a bit confusing for you...


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## GIAToo

Wishing - don't worry I confuse myself! What does RE stand for?  I see it on the US website I've joined and I can't work it out, although I'm sure it's obvious    Such a shame that you haven't had any tests to find out what is causing your IF.  It's so hard without a partner too (I think) 'cos for me anyway, I've never even tried to get pregnant so you really do start with a blank sheet don't you?  "How long have you been trying to conceive?"..."er I haven't!"  It doesn't help the investigative process does it?? 

Kitten - I really feel for you and I have seen your other posts with your questions on embryo donation and Reprofit.  You do seem very like me and worry about everything and imagine every possibility and want a plan B for every possibility.    I hope you get some answers from Stepan and you start to get ready mentally for what you are doing, it is very hard   and here's some    for good measure  

I have just had a call from the consultant at the Lister too and he said he would support me in whatever I want - so I have asked to do the Flare protocol and change from Menopur to Gonal F as it makes more sense to me.  I know some women who say that Menopur is better, but there are others who have tried every protocol and it's made no difference whatsoever.  For me, psychologically I have to change the protocol otherwise I would go into the cycle with a very negative view.  I still haven't quite decided what I'm going to do, but AF due tomorrow and I do kinda want to get going asap.  He also said he'd support me with IUI if I chose that, although he said my chances with IUI were only 3-5% (but if I gave it three goes who knows?!)  I'm going a bit      here you can probably tell! 

I'm going to talk it all through tonight with a friend and try to make a decision. At the moment (and this could change in half an hour!   ) I am thinking I may as well try this Flare protocol at the Lister and if it doesn't work, move onto donor eggs where there is no waiting list.  This thread is really helping me re: donor eggs, but I can see that I might have pre-show jitters too if it comes to it  
GIA Tooxx


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## cocochanel1

Giatoo - it is really interesting to read everyone's thoughts. I have a son who was conceived naturally with my ex partner. My son looks like my father. 

I'm not at all worried about the genetic link for my next one, I don't know why? I was really worried about finding a sperm donor that would help me make a baby that looks like my family initially but now (2 years on) I am just desperate to have another baby and actually don't care if the baby doesn't look like us. Recently I just chose the best looking donor I could find who had great health and fertility but wasn't worried about whether he looked like my family or not! I believe that attachment has everything to do with care and nothing to do with genes. I don't know when I made that leap. 
So I'm starting to think about donor eggs because I am bored with treatment and want to just be pregnant. Thanks for starting this thread. Coco xxx


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## suitcase of dreams

I agree, really very interesting thread we have going now...

I googled RE, so here you go:
"What is a Reproductive Endocrinologist?
A reproductive endocrinologist is a type of medical doctor who specializes in treating people with reproductive disorders. Many infertile couples choose to see a reproductive endocrinologist when deciding upon fertility treatments. It is a reproductive endocrinologist's job to identify factors involved in your infertility and appropriate methods with which to treat these factors."

Don't think we have them here in the UK...

Kitten - of course you are not a bad person for thinking about not telling anyone (including the child?) - at the end of the day you have to do what you feel is right for you and your hubbie, and for the child. I seem to recall reading threads on the DE board where women were convinced they wouldn't tell, but changed their mind once the child was here - so don't feel you have to make a final decision now - you can always change your mind as time goes by. Although obviously if you don't plan to tell the child, best not to tell anyone, otherwise there is the fear that the child will find out from someone else, which would be an awful shock.

I think it's only natural to want to protect our children from pain and hurt, but at the end of the day I guess we can never do that anyway, whether they are our genetic children or not. I have red hair and I endured years of playground teasing about that, but I don't blame my mother   (I get the red hair from her)...I know it's not quite the same thing but I guess what I'm saying is that children will always have difficult things to face when growing up, that's just how life is. At least in the case of our children they will know just how wanted they were, and how loved they are - and surely that's the most important thing of all?
I also think that times are changing and perceptions of what constitutes a family are changing, and that there is much less negativity than you might think. I have had nothing but support from everyone I have told. There will always be those with negative opinions, but I see that as their problem, not mine, and generally just try to avoid coming into contact with them (and never ever read those Mail articles and the comments underneath...not worthy of your time or attention!)

All of that said, I'm still finding it very hard to accept that this is what it's come to for me. I didn't imagine, or want it to be like this. Of course I would rather have met Mr Right, settled down, bought cottage in country, had a couple of kids and a few dogs, got a part time voluntary job and got involved in the life of the local community etc. Instead I find myself single, using donor eggs and sperm and still unable to get pregnant, living on my own and having to stay in a high paying but essentially boring and unfulfilling job because it pays for fertility tx and the maternity policy is good. Not what I imagined at 40 (mind you, at least I lost the excess weight, I might be single and childless at 40 but I do feel positive about no longer being fat as well!)

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you can rationalise all of this in many ways, and it can all make perfect sense when you do those pros and cons on the piece of paper (I've done that too and it def came down heavily on the side of using DE), but you can't control the emotions behind it....they are always going to be lurking in the background

I am just so thankful that this FF community exists where we can exchange views and support eachother. If I am ever lucky enough to get pregnant, I feel blessed that my child will know so many other children conceived in the same way, and that I will have the support of the women here  - both virtually and in person

Anyway, I have gone on quite long enough now, I find with my next cycle fast approaching (ET April 20th) I am thinking more and more about these issues, only natural I suppose....good to be able to express them here - thanks for reading!

Suitcase
x


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## wishingforanangel

I see you found the info suity about what an RE stands for in the United States...but I do think you have them. To me its just a fancy term for a fertility specialist who use to be an obstetrics gynecology (Ob-Gyn) doctor. The RE's may have some additional training to add to their alphabet soup of acroynms.

GIAToo - I have been trying to conceive for the last two years - well sort of. I had to lose a bunch of weight first. I didn't actually start treatment until last year. Said to say I think I started with PCOS as my initial fertility issues but that apparently hasn't been the problem for awhile now. During my treatment with my old doctor it appears that I developed other fertility issues which the doctor could have caught if she did some tests but didn't. Partly why I decided to leave her but mostly because she acted weird all of sudden to my depression which she knew about prior to treatment. Didn't help she broke confidentiality and spoke to the former new RE I was trying to work with in the States. Hope you figure it out in regards to what you want to do. Oh and I have been in contact with IVI Espana in Madrid, Spain and they told me they could do a cycle whenever I wanted with donor eggs. Since Madrid is closer to you then the Czech Republic maybe it will be easier for you.


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## kittenorcub

Thanks for the support GIAtoo, Suitcase  As Suitcase said, I am so thankful for FF where we can have these discussions without fear of judgement etc. 

I was listening to the Today programme this am and they were talking about donor treatments. The doctor there said that people get hung up on the issue of choosing a donor (he ws American, and he said that people in the US can choose upon very narrow criteria and so often get criticised about some sort of genetic "selection"). Anyway, he said that this is in fact a fallacy because genetics is far more random than that, and I suppose that supports what you are all saying - especially when you say that you don't even look like your own siblings!

I am definitely having jitters - Suitcase, thanks for the thought that i don't have to make the decidion now. I suppose the reason I wanted to have this settled in my mind now, is because if I am lucky enough to get pg with donor embryo, it will be too late to change my mind about having DE because of the decisions I now have to face. I said to DH that maybe with all my doubts we should postpone going for donor treatment. He rightly pointed out to me that would have been fine if I was not pushing 42! I forget sometimes! I don't have the luxury of time, and it only seems like yesterday when we were trying with tx and our own gametes. Now (less than 6 months later we are on to Donor gametes). But, as Suitcase said, none of us thought we would be where we are now - but we are, so maybe I should just get on with it and stop over analysing! 

I wish all you ladies who are going to try the best of luck 

GIAtoo - what decision did you come to last night after talking it over with your friend? 

Kittenxx


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## GIAToo

Morning ladies 

Kittenorcub - This morning my plan is do IVF once more, if unsuccessful, do 2 natural IUIs (to give myself a mini chance and use up the sperm as it would cost me at least £5/600 to move it  - the Lister charge £263 just for admin costs!) and if still no luck, move on to DE. Of course, this afternoon (or in the next half an hour!! ) that could all change!!  As I have already said the advice I got from the Lister counsellor was not to rush into DE and 6 months isn't very long to make the decision. I have been thinking about DE from the start, the start only being 6 months ago and I feel I have made a lot of progress since my BFN, but it is very difficult when you are actually faced with the decision. Have you had any counselling to discuss your fears and concerns? I would highly recommend it if you haven't. It was interesting what the Doctor said on the Today programme - it is a sign of age that we've started listening to Radio 4 eh?? 

Suitcase- thanks for looking up RE  _"Of course I would rather have met Mr Right, settled down, bought cottage in country, had a couple of kids and a few dogs, got a part time voluntary job and got involved in the life of the local community etc"_ - hey I think we had exactly the same dream!!  I know I have been reading too many Joanna Trollope books! You're so right about kids being teased for anything, being too clever, being a bit slow, etc and I don't think it is possible to protect children from everything. The list of worries is endless when you start to think about it. I was watching Jo Frost (some love her, some hate her, but I love her) and I thought, my goodness, worrying about the genetics of my child is the least of my worries! 

Wishing - Spain is very expensive compared to other countries. Not good that your RE broke confidentiality  Sounds like you've had a really tough time. 

Another thought - one of my cousins said that she would give me all her eggs if she could (she's too old to be eligible), but it did make me think (I don't want this to sound ungrateful, because it was so lovely of her to say that) I would rather have a strangers eggs.I wouldn't want anyone else to be seeing my child regularly and thinking that it is part of them, which it would be of course. I am going to see my friend on Saturday with the double donation twin boys - it always helps to see them as they are fab and it's easy to see that she is their mummy and that's that...no questions (yet ) !! 

LL - Forgot to say earlier, thanks for sharing your thoughts , it makes more sense as to why you seem to be so okay with the route you finally ended up going down.  

Hope everyone has a lovely day.
GIA Tooxx


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## suitcase of dreams

GIAToo - sounds like a good plan   At the end of the day you have to be ready to take the step to DE. I had 4 failed cycles, one cancelled cycle and 1 miscarriage with my own eggs before I moved on to DE....and it was definitely not a step I took lightly...
Have everything crossed for you that with your new protocol things work out with your OE   
Re donation from a relative - I was initially keen on that idea as I kind of thought it solved all the issues around physical similarities and having the family genes etc. I never actually asked my sisters (1 has not had her own children yet, the other has 3 already and all have a genetic condition which may well have precluded her from donating anyway) and they did not offer. At first I was a little resentful that they had not offered, but on reflection I am glad they did not. I think I would have found it very hard to have a child whose aunt was also its biological mother. I am very close to my sisters and see them very regularly, and for me it would have felt quite strange I think. I know it's the right thing for some people, but not for me - so I'm glad we never had the conversation in the end.  

Kitten - are you having serious doubts about DE overall, or just about how/what to tell the child? I think a few (well quite a lot!) of pre-tx jitters are very normal, but only you know if they are signficant enough to make you stop and take stock for a while. Although you are 42, remember that with DE your age is less relevant as the eggs will be very young so you don't have to rush ahead if you really don't think you should. 
Of course there's the matter of wanting to be a parent whilst still young enough to enjoy it, and to keep up! One thing I have really focused on in this last year is improving my health and fitness levels. When I babysit my sister's 3 little ones (5, 3, 18 mths) I generally come away completely exhausted and whilst having 1 would def be easier than 3, I'm certainly aware that as an older mum I'm going to need to work at my fitness and stamina to keep up with an active child/toddler!
I def agree that sometimes you do have to try and stop over-analysing and go with a gut feel. In your heart of hearts you know whether this is the right thing for you or not - and only you can decide this...
I'm a bit the same in terms of over analysing - I know this is the right thing for me to do, but I still go round and round in circles (especially late at night lying awake in bed...) on all these issues - but in the morning I still wake up knowing it's the right thing to do. Counselling has really helped me - it's the place I can go once a week and talk about all these worries and issues and it keeps it all in perspective. Not cheap of course to have counselling weekly - and I'm now moving to fortnightly partly because of finances and partly because I don't feel I need it so often, but it's been an absolute life saver for me  

Must get on, am supposed to be working from home today and keep getting side tracked!
Lots of love and luck to all of us,
Suitcase
x


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## wishingforanangel

GIA 2

Good luck on your cycles and I hope they work out for you.   Just wondering while you do your cycles maybe you want to contact Retrofit so you would be on their wait list (just a thought so you don't have to wait too long if you decided to stop using your oe for any reason). As for Spain...I guess I haven't really checked on the treatment price but then again for me it is cheaper for me then doing it in the States.

Kitten I hope you are able to figure out a plan for yourself...I really wish I could help you but since I really haven't come to a decision yet about myself, since I have to take care of some medical issues that came up out of my fertility treatments...so I wouldn't be able to offer much in ways of help...I guess I am just wondering if you are worried about making the wrong decision...Its hard for me to explain but...I guess I was thinking of doing an estrogen priming protocol because I never changed protocols with my RE and I wonder if it would have worked. I want my child no matter however s/he came to me and I feel that my child will be fine no matter what...I think a part of my heart though will always believe it would better for my child to be a part of me on a genetic level. I don't want to regret not trying everything possible with my own eggs but I know to that my chances will not be good if I continue to try my own eggs and that I am going to adore and love my kid. I don't know if that makes sense but I hope you find a way to resolve your situation.


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## kittenorcub

suitcase of dreams said:


> Kitten - are you having serious doubts about DE overall, or just about how/what to tell the child? I think a few (well quite a lot!) of pre-tx jitters are very normal, but only you know if they are signficant enough to make you stop and take stock for a while. Although you are 42, remember that with DE your age is less relevant as the eggs will be very young so you don't have to rush ahead if you really don't think you should.
> Of course there's the matter of wanting to be a parent whilst still young enough to enjoy it, and to keep up! ...
> 
> I def agree that sometimes you do have to try and stop over-analysing and go with a gut feel. In your heart of hearts you know whether this is the right thing for you or not - and only you can decide this...
> I'm a bit the same in terms of over analysing - I know this is the right thing for me to do, but I still go round and round in circles (especially late at night lying awake in bed...) on all these issues - but in the morning I still wake up knowing it's the right thing to do.


Suitcase, you have described how I feel - the to and fro that goes on in my mind - I think my main worry is that I don't just want to focus on the goal of getting pg without fully considering the effect that having a child who is not genetically linked to either me or DH, would have and the extra dilemmas that will give us with respect to telling the child, society's judgements about donation etc - I know that many of these judgements are ill informed and ignorant (sometimes bigoted) but I think is it fair to bring that upon a child that i chose to bring into the World - as you have said, the World is unfair as it is and children get picked upon, but for things that are not chosen whereas in this case I chose to go down this route, and if my child got picked on for that, how would I feel that I had caused that? You see, how worried I am about something that may not even happen!!! ....

I have been pg twice in 15 years (one pg where when I mc - the Hospital tested the foetus' DNA which was found to have chromosomal issues - hence they said the mc after 12 weeks) - I have had four IVFs, and I know i cannot go through much more. We were both tested and they found nothing in our DNA to cause the chromosomal issue they found, and they told us we were the "unlucky" 1 in 1000 it happens to. They said it was most probably down to my "old eggs" that caused the problem. They don't know for sure though.

So I think I am grieving the fact that we got so far only to have a mc - they could not test the tissue from the second mc because it was too early.

I am now in the situation where they told me that the chances of the same problem happening again with my own eggs is still very low but maybe 2 in 1000 (the chances have doubled because it already happened once) and so that is why we made the decision to go the donor route - DH decided that since he is also in his 40s, it may be that it was also something to do with his sperm, and so that is why he is ok with moving to donor sperm. We are going for embryo adoption because it is cheaper and allows us more tries.

You are right Suitcase that I am not too old for the donor route, but I still worry about the risk of miscarriage as I get older - I cannot face another mc. I also know that if we "take time off" it will feel as though our lives are still "stuck", as if we are waiting for our lives to move on. It's not as if I will use that time to go around the World or anything!

I have not had counselling - cannot afford it since all the tx we have had had wiped us out financially. I know it would be good but there it is. Got to save for tx unfortunately.



wishingforanangel said:


> Kitten I hope you are able to figure out a plan for yourself......I guess I am just wondering if you are worried about making the wrong decision....I think a part of my heart though will always believe it would better for my child to be a part of me on a genetic level. I don't want to regret not trying everything possible with my own eggs but I know to that my chances will not be good if I continue to try my own eggs


Wishingforanangel - yes you are right, I am afraid of making the wrong decision - whatever that means! It is so easy to get swept up in trying to get pg, that it is easy to forget that you have a lifetime with that child to deal with any issues that essentially you created, and I feel that it would silly for me to ignore that - I sort of want a plan or blueprint - I know things will change and we will change our minds on lots of things but at least if we have some sort of ground work done, it may make things a little easier?


GIAToo said:


> Kittenorcub - This morning my plan is do IVF once more, if unsuccessful, do 2 natural IUIs (to give myself a mini chance and use up the sperm as it would cost me at least £5/600 to move it  - the Lister charge £263 just for admin costs!) and if still no luck, move on to DE. Of course, this afternoon (or in the next half an hour!! ) that could all change!!  As I have already said the advice I got from the Lister counsellor was not to rush into DE and 6 months isn't very long to make the decision. I have been thinking about DE from the start, the start only being 6 months ago and I feel I have made a lot of progress since my BFN, but it is very difficult when you are actually faced with the decision. Have you had any counselling to discuss your fears and concerns? I would highly recommend it if you haven't. It was interesting what the Doctor said on the Today programme - it is a sign of age that we've started listening to Radio 4 eh??
> 
> GIA Tooxx


GIAtoo, your plan sounds a good one - I send you much  for the future and have everything crossed (until Embryo transfer that is!!!  - I do think that in your mind you do need to explore all options to give yourself (to quote a corny phrase) "closure" - that's where I am right now - I am not sure if I need to do one more IVF with my own eggs or if that would just be tempting fate - it was devastating losing a much wanted baby who had chromosomal problems (that lead to their death) that i felt I had caused - and if that happened again, i don't know how I would cope. That's my fear.

Talking about Radio 4, did you hear the "Moral Maze" last night? They were talking about donor eggs - if not, listen to it on iplayer - it was really good, though clearly showed the sort of prejudices we have to deal with. Really good that this is being discussed. I was really interested what they were saying about the importance (or lack of) genes.

Take care ladies - thank you for all your input and support - it has meant so much to me! I value and respect all your opinions and would welcome more if you have any.

Kittenxx


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## wishingforanangel

kittenorcub - 

Life would definitely be easier if there was a blueprint wouldn't it...... 

I wish I could offer some sort of....I wish I could say something to make you feel better about your mc and tell you that it wasn't your fault in regards to the chromosomal issues but I am not sure if you would believe me....or at least I think you will hear the words but you won't believe it in your heart.        

I think maybe that was the only way I came to terms with failing 5 cycles...that if the kid were alive even for a brief moment (I believe that kids are alive once they are conceived). I will never know if my cycles have created any kids but I like to believe if the kids were created they made a choice to stay or leave and if they had to leave I believe they will always be with me. I realize on conception a child doesn't have a consiousness but I believe ever kid has a soul...


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## kittenorcub

Thank you Wishingforanangel - you are so kind and your words have brought tears to my eyes and I do feel my LOs have souls too - i hope they are looking down on me and not wishing they had been sent to a younger Mummy! 

Kitten


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## GIAToo

kittenorcub said:


> Thank you Wishingforanangel - you are so kind and your words have brought tears to my eyes and I do feel my LOs have souls too - i hope they are looking down on me and not wishing they had been sent to a younger Mummy!
> 
> Kitten


Kitten - please don't think like that  . My mum had a little boy (my brother), he was born full term and died 24 hours later because he had no kidneys. She was 18 years old. We have since found out my other brother also only has one kidney, but my MUM is the BEST mum in the world (you might all have other opinions re: your own Mums ), but she is the most adoreable mum ever and I'm sure your LOs would think exactly the same about you!    And any child you have will also think you are fab too, no matter what the genetics are. Be kind to yourself  
GIA Tooxx


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## wishingforanangel

kittenorcub said:


> Thank you Wishingforanangel - you are so kind and your words have brought tears to my eyes and I do feel my LOs have souls too - i hope they are looking down on me and not wishing they had been sent to a younger Mummy!
> 
> Kitten


  Kitterorcub I feel that kids did want you they just weren't ready to be here.  I hope, like GIAToo, says you will be kind to yourself.


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## GIAToo

Goodness me, I just read some comments on the BBC web-site after The Big Question talked about donor eggs - it's quite scary how many crazy, judgemental people there are in this world.  I listened to the Moral Maze on Radio 4 and that was more balanced, but still worrying that quite a few "experts" were against it.  Still, we need not worry ourselves with all those strangers opinions eh?  

Anyway, how are we all today?  

Kittenorcub - how are you hun?   

GIA Tooxx


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## hjanea

Hi GIAToo, I had my appointment with the psychologist today prior to any treatment that Leeds may offer me. I was talking over the possibilities of using donor eggs/embryos with her. I'm about 80/20 that that is the best route for me to take but then I catch myself wondering about whether another child would look like my sister, as my dd does, and then thinking how silly, it won't look a bit like my sister if its not my egg. I think my heart would like to try my eggs but my head says DFET 30% sucess rate at around £1500 all in in the CR as apposed to 10% for OEIVF at three times the price so it isn't really comparable is it?
Have you got a date for your treatment and are you still going to have an OE attempt?
H.xxx


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## kittenorcub

GIAToo said:


> Goodness me, I just read some comments on the BBC web-site after The Big Question talked about donor eggs - it's quite scary how many crazy, judgemental people there are in this world. I listened to the Moral Maze on Radio 4 and that was more balanced, but still worrying that quite a few "experts" were against it. Still, we need not worry ourselves with all those strangers opinions eh?
> 
> Anyway, how are we all today?
> 
> Kittenorcub - how are you hun?
> 
> GIA Tooxx


Hi GIA too, I am OK - just got my AF and feeling c**p. On the "Moral Maze" I found it more balanced but still there were supposedly educated people banging on about how using donor gametes is somehow exploitative - I have been having a debate about this very subject on FF at this link:-
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=200.0

I must admit that I felt very strongly about one poster saying that those who use donor gametes should be very careful that the clinic is not exploiting donors and since then have written some lengthy posts - and have now been joined by another FFer who feels the same way as I do. All this judgement when all we want is a child of our own to love and nurture.

GIAtoo - how are the plans for your next tx coming along? When do you start? Best of luck and let us know how you get on! 

Take care

Kittenxx


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## GIAToo

Hello ladies,

Kitten - Sorry you're not feeling so great. I just read that whole thread on that link. I am nowhere near as articulate or knowledgeable as you are and the other lady - both putting your views forward beautifully.   I think it shows just how "delicate" this subject is the fact that I didn't want to add any comments on that thread in case I got "attacked" by one of the other posters and I didn't have an argument to defend myself - that's why I started this thread tbh. I wanted somewhere to post where I could feel supported and wouldn't be told I was wasting my time with my OE or that I was selfish for either wanting to use OE or DE !!! I think what you say about exploitation being the reason people are against donor gametes is right, I haven't heard many people talk about THAT aspect at all. It never fails to amaze me how ignorant people are and how they spout off about subjects they clearly know nothing about.  Anyway, well done you on your fabulous posts! 

hjanea - it's so difficult isn't it? The head says one thing (along with the bank account!) and the heart says another.  Personally I found the chat with the counsellor at my clinic very useful. She disclosed that she had adopted and therefore I felt she really knew what she was talking about and understood some of my fears. Let us know what you decide to do  

AFM - I have a pill scan tomorrow and then I am going to start another cycle of IVF. I think if I only get one follie again, I will convert to IUI and save my money. I will probably try another couple of IUI's to use up the donor sperm I've already bought, before moving on to DE if that becomes necessary. I feel a bit all over the place at the moment, anxious, excited, doubtful, hopeful.....all the usual things I suspect most people feel before another cycle. I'm not 100% sure I am doing the right thing, but as I say, I will not spend the money on IVF if I respond poorly again........who knows how I'll feel in 2 weeks though eh? 

I'm away with my Mum this weekend. I'm enjoying spending a lot of time with my parents at the moment because they are both so pro-DE  At least I don't have to worry about what a partner thinks too, which I know can make things difficult for some ladies.

Take care everyone and speak soon 
GIATooxx


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## kittenorcub

GIAtoo - thanks for the praise - you know you are not alone in not wanting to post for fear of being "shot down" - I got three PMs from ladies who said they agreed with what i had said but did not feel able to post for the same reason! Anyway, I just felt I had to say something because I really do feel that there is so much judgement in any form of assisted conception that to have the additional "morality" heaped upon those of us using donor gametes, is just too much. I have made myself read as much as I can TBH, because I do feel that not only will I have to justify myself to others (much as I would like to say "mind your own business and Foxtrot Oscar") but also possibly explain to my child (if lucky enough to be successful). What I find is that one of the reasons we feel so anxious about using donor gametes is because of the lack of support from the general population. The other poster on that link (DDinCA) is soooo much more articulate than me, and she made some wonderful points.

Like you I am "to and fro-ing" with my emotions - at the moment I can share my forthcoming journey with no one other than DH (not even family) and that is adding to the feelings of isolation - I wish I could say my family/DHs family would be supportive, but I am not certain they would and so for now I am keeping "mum" and atleast that way, if I decide to never tell anyone, there is no chance of anything "slipping out" - but how awful to feel this way - the prejudice is so ingrained in some that it is so hard to counteract.

I have not been able to have counselling - I wish I had - I did go to one about a year ago and she was very keen on telling me about her wayward daughter who got pg young and refuses to work? In the end I said I did not want to go anymore and would seek a specialist counsellor - I thought that was very unprofessional talking about herself during our sessions!

GIAtoo - I wish you so much luck with the tx! Don't worry about doing the "right" thing - if we all had hindsight none of us would make any mistakes! Just go for it - it is the "right" thing right now!

Kittenxxx


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## hjanea

Hi Kitten, I can't remember where you are planning to have tx but will there not be counsellors attached to the clinic if it is in the UK? I'm under Leeds, though will probably end up going abroad, depending on what Leeds can offer me and waiting lists etc, anyhow the counsellor I saw was through the clinic and although it was mandatory that I attend (**** regs) I found it very useful to talk through things and if I feel I have any problems during tx, be it here or abroad, I will ring and see if I can see her privately. In fact I wish I had asked if that would be an option if I go for abroad!
I hope that you are able to find someone supportive to talk to.
H.xxx


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## ♥JJ1♥

H- Not all clinics offer counselling as routine or even have them attached they have names they can give you should you wish to pursue. My first clinic one session was included in the price package and we weren't doing anonymous donor anything at that stage, but the 3 clinics I have been to since have not had counselling as part of the package or offered it and that was for DE's etc.  I did have private counselling after my mc, for 9 months but not attached to the clinic (although when I asked ARGC they gave me a few names and she was one). 

the BICA is the regulatory body and then there is a subsection for fertility counsellors if you are looking.

L x


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## GIAToo

Hi Ladies, hope you're all well.   

I'm in need of a bit of  .......just about to start injections (in 25 minutes to be precise) and I am not feeling very positive about this cycle.  I want to book appointments for DEs at various clinics, but I should concentrate on this cycle shouldn't I?

JJ1 - any news from your clinic? (sorry if I've missed it on another thread)    

GIA Tooxx


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## bingbong

GIA2   I'll be positive about this cycle for you     I do wonder if maybe having a back up plan will reduce the pressure on this cycle a bit, knowing that you've got the ball rolling on DE. And then just think how wonderful it will be to phone up and cancel because you are pg   


bingbong x


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## ♥JJ1♥

GAIT good luck with your cycle and injecting

AFM- I got matched and have nurse planning appt on 19th
L x


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## lulumead

great news JJ1. 
xxx


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## GIAToo

BUMP! - Just in case anyone is considering donor eggs and wants to talk about it   
xx


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## Hopingfor

Hi 

I'm a newbie! And I'm at the   stage in every sense! I've only just realised there was forums and maybe if I'd found them first  my head might not be in such a muddle!

I have got a limited budget(Which I suspect is the case for most folk), I have the funding for one shot at IVI Valencia with donor eggs! I would have liked a shot with my own eggs, as I've never tried to conceive naturally, and it would have been nice. I could have got the money together for one go with my own eggs, and still had enough for one go at Valencia. But as I'm 46, the odds seem against me and as I'm not using all my own money...it was suggested I should go with the Valencia option.

It feels like I've made the right choice, using donor eggs. But I cant say I'm happy, in fact I feel quite miserable about that! I do have a male friend who has offered to 'donate' his little swimmers. He says he wouldnt want named on the birth certificate or be able to contribute financially. He seems to like the idea of being a 'kindly uncle' as he put it. And it does in theory give me the chance of trying the 'natural' way.

I've tried talking to a friend about it, and my mum! My mum says I should do what I need to! And my friend initially said if I could get someone to make a 'donation' as it were, I should, and has now given me a row for considering it, initially when i told her I had someone offer she said to keep him as a back up! I feel as if time is truly against me now.

Everyone here seems a bit further down the line, so it would be good to get a little bit of feedback from other folk. 

My head is in a bit of a mess. Its all I can think of. I'm kind of rambling now. I suppose I could do with some metaphorical hand holding and a bit of sense from someone who has been or is in the same/similar situation.


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## suitcase of dreams

Hello Hopingfor and welcome 

There's plenty of us here to offer hand holding and support - we have regular meet ups in person too (there's one in London on July 31st if you are interested - there's a thread on it on the main Singles Board) if you wanted to chat in person. I can't make that one but there are about 20 singlies going I think

It's no wonder you are feeling a bit all over the place, it's a big decision to make, so take your time. If you are planning to use DE then time is not so much of an issue as if you were using your own eggs (and I'll be blunt here and say that at 46 you are probably too old to try with OE anyway so I think you're right in going straight to DE, regardless of the financial aspect - I seem to recall that there are no more than 1 or 2 live births a year in the UK from IVF in women over 42...ironically it's apparently easier to conceive naturally once you are over 40...although not an option for us singles  )

There's plenty of info on these threads in general about ttc as a single person, I also found a couple of books very useful during the initial thought process:
"Choosing Single Motherhood" by Mikki Morrissette and "Single Mothers by Choice" by Jane Mattes
Neither are specifically about DE, but both are very good on the overall decision process and on helping you ask - and answer - the important questions and think about your options

Try also the DCN (Donor Conception Network) website and forum. The forum is much less active than FF, but DCN are good for more general information about using donors. Note that they generally believe ID release donors are 'better' than anonymous ones and hence tend to steer people away from overseas tx. Ultimately the choice on anon re ID release donors is a very personal one and you'll need to make your own decision on that, DCN can be a little biased sometimes but if you can cut through that, they do offer some good materials on using donors and particularly on what and how to tell the child as they grow up

If you are using a known sperm donor then do make sure you have a written agreement in place before you go ahead which clearly states the terms on which you are both going into this. Whilst these documents may not be actually legally binding, you at least have them as evidence of intent if anything should change/go wrong later. I hate to sound negative here but there have been cases where the donor has changed his mind and wanted to get involved (and as the biological father potentially has the right to) - so best all round if you have something in writing before you start. Natalie Gamble on the 'Ask a Lawyer' thread can help with questions on this. Check out also the Lesbian/Gay thread as many of them have similar agreements in place with sperm donors. JJ1 is also pretty knowledgeable on this as she is ttc with a friend/known donor

As for your friend, try not to worry about what she thinks or feels about it. It's your life and you have the right to make your own decisions. Of course we always want our friends and family to support us, but ultimately you need to do what's right for you. It's great that your mum is supportive though 

As you will see from my signature, it's been a long journey for me, I went from IUI to OE IVF to DE IVF and I am now in the very very early stages of pregnancy. Like you, DE was not my first option and whilst I wouldn't say I was exactly 'happy' at needing to use donor eggs, I am overjoyed to be pregnant and grateful that such options exist because without it, I would be facing a childless future. It's very early days for me but I can say 100% that I consider this to be _my_ baby and although I am as I say, grateful to the clinic and the individual donors who made it possible for me to be pregnant (still can't quite believe I'm saying that, hope I'm not tempting fate  ) at the end of the day I am the one carrying the child for 9 months, giving birth, feeding it, loving it, getting up to it 5 times a night etc. And families are about so much more than just genetics. Of course there will be ups and downs along the way and I know that having a child in such a non traditional way is going to bring challenges, but the one thing I am sure of is that this child will be very much loved - and really what more can anyone ask?

It's late and I'm pretty tired so I'll stop now. I hope this has helped somewhat - feel free to PM me (click on the little speech bubble thing in the box on the left next to my message) if you have questions - I'm happy to share more of how I went through the decision process if you think it will help

Mostly just know that you are not alone, this is an amazingly supportive community and I'm sure you'll soon start to feel very much part of it 

Wishing you the very best of luck,
Suitcase
x


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## caramac

What a lovely post Suitcase. Hopingfor I can't really offer any thoughts/advice on the whole donor eggs thing but just wanted to send you some


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## Hopingfor

Thank you so much Suitcase for taking the time to respond. You have given me so many good pointers in your reply, I have to say I feel a good bit calmer now. 
I would have loved to do the meet up thing, but I'm up in Scotland, and although I have the time I don't have the cash. 

Its great to hear how someone actually feels about using donor eggs, you have certainly eased my mind.
I will take you up on the offer of sending you a pm....I will do that today or tomorrow if that's ok? I have a few questions, but I think I need to sort them out into a sensible order in my head! If that makes sense.  I do seem to have a one track mind just now, and I think I need to set up the 'hurdles' in an order so I can deal with each thing and know its dealt with!

Wishing you all the best Suitcase, thank you so much. I will be in touch.  

Caramac...Thank you for the  ....sending some back   and wishing you success on your journey


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## Candee

Hi Hopingfor,
I have just read Suity's post and, as usual, she puts everything so, so well and makes so many excellent points - I totally agree with all she says, especially the part about families being so much more than genetics, however it does take time to reach that stage and when
I read what you said about being sad about donor eggs, please know that that it totally normal and I have to say I think that it is a feeling that most of us go through - I have read it described as a sort of "mourning" for the bio baby you always thought you would have... I think feeling this way is part of a process of moving from sadness to acceptance and then becoming focused again on the process of getting pregnant... all of this you will read about on this and other threads, but sometimes the positive sides of donor eggs get overlooked and its worth remembering that it is not all sadness, there are some major bonuses. For a start, and obviously, your chances of getting pregnant are so much better with donor eggs - when I was considering my own eggs I was given odds of less than 5%, whereas my clinic in South Africa gave odds of over 60% with donor eggs. Then too, using a young egg drastically reduces the statistics for downs, spine bifidia etc, it also makes it less likely that you will have a miscarriage, all of which make for a much less stressful pregnancy... I also think that as single women we don't have the anguish of knowing that our child is genetically related to its dad, but not to us... I personally would have found that quite hard to handle - but as a single mum, with a double donor baby, no-one will be closer than we are to our children, which is important for me...

Of course conceiving through DE is a big step to take, emotionally and mentally, and it is not a "silver bullet" that works for everyone first time, but it does really put you back in the game and its worth reflecting on the positive points, as well the negatives. When all is send and done, all I can tell you is that when the midwife handed me my baby, all I could do was weep with the joy of being a mother at last... my perfect little darling is everything to me and I wouldn't swap her now for ten genetically related bubbas!

A final point I would make about the sperm donor, which is just totally my own view which is get the best swimmers that you can - a friend of mine in his forties offered to donate for me, wanting to be an "uncle" figure, not a dad, and I was thinking about this, but I decided against this - I had limited funds and wanted the very best chance I could to have a baby - i figured that with young eggs _and_ young sperm I was giving myself the best chance I could.

Anyway hun, just thought I would share some of my thoughts with you at the start of your journey. Whatever you decide to do, I wish you lots and lots of luck      
Candee
x


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## Hopingfor

Hi Candee

Thank you for taking the time to respond  , it is very much appreciated. My friend sounds just like yours - age wise and in the fact he see's himself as an 'uncle'. Which I'm not entirely comfortable with, I have to say. I'm not sure how they will feel when they see a real baby, if they will be able to take a step back.

You have certainly made many good points for using donor eggs. I suppose I'm just hankering for 'a shot' with my own. I'm going to have to make my mind up soon! Or I never will.

Thank you again, and congratulations on the arrival of your wee one


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## Hopingfor

I hope no one minds what I said about my friend wanting to be an 'uncle' figure.

As I didnt mean to offend anyone who has been in that position , and decided thats the route for them. I'm sure everyone situation is unique, and we all make our decisions the best we can and hope for a happy ending.


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## GIAToo

Hello everyone -I'm having a bit of a panic here.

I went to Serum in Athens last month and was told that there were still remnants of my miscarriage in the uterus and I would need a hysteroscopy.  I thought I could get that sorted over here quite quickly through a mutual socity healthcare plan that I pay into.  I have just been told my appointment is 30th September!!!! and although the op can be done within 7 days of that appointment it has to be done on CD 6-10 which is the week before 30th September!    So now I am looking at end of October for op, then wait another cycle before I can start OEIVF which I want to try one more time.  

BUT I have just had an email from Reprofit to say I can have DE treatment on 4th May 2011 (amazed at the exact date!), but I have to pay 1000e deposit within 90 days.  Problem is I won't have even had my final IVF by then the way things are going and if I do happen to be lucky and get pg, I don't want to lose 1000e.

I'm also panicking about the whole DE thing too and wondering if I'm ready, but having said that I think I will be ready by May 'cos I feel like I've been thnking about it a long time! 

Goodness me, sorry for the ramble!  Anyone got any words of wisdom...........   
GIA Tooxx

p.s. Hopingfor - I wasn't at all offended by your uncle comment    as you say we are all different and I don't want to have to compromise with anyone about how I bring up my child - just a control freak ya see!


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## caramac

Hi GIA...gosh what a nightmare situation with the hysteroscopy. Poor you. I do understand your worry about being out 1000e if your OEIVF works before May 2011 but I can also understand why Reprofit ask for this deposit (because they have a lot of people cancelling on then and it makes the waiting list longer for everyone else I guess). One thought that occurred to me though is that if you did pay the 1000e deposit and then were lucky enough to get pregnant with the OEIVF first, you could perhaps "sell" your May date on to someone else on the Reprofit thread? i.e. they pay you the 1000e back and take your place on 4th May? Might be worth asking Stepan if this would be acceptable?


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## suitcase of dreams

GIAToo - difficult situation - I've been here before too trying to juggle outcome of one cycle at same time as planning next   
I understand that by getting the hysteroscopy done here it would be covered by your insurance, but would you consider getting it done either at Serum or Reprofit instead? Both are cheaper than UK I think and you could then get it done sooner

Otherwise Caramac's suggestion is a good one - there will undoubtedly be someone to take your Reprofit slot as the waiting lists are so long there, so that could be your fall back. I'm pretty sure they don't actually start confirming the donor until 6 weeks before the cycle so it shouldn't be an issue with regards to matching criteria etc

I know how scary it is to feel that you are "committing" to donor eggs before you are ready, but there's plenty of time before May and hopefully you won't need that DE cycle at all

take care, hope you manage to sort something out
Suitcase
x


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## GIAToo

Thanks ladies    

Caramac - I completely understand why Reprofit ask for a deposit and I haven't got a problem with that at all, it's just the timing's a bit off for me 'cos of this stupid hysteroscopy situation. 

Suitcase - I am thinking about Serum and Reprofit.  I emailed Reprofit about it half an hour ago, so I'm waiting to hear from them.  The annoying thing is that my next CD6-10 window starts next week and Serum are shut so I'd have to wait until end of september anyway.  

I know deep down that I am just being impatient   but I feel ready to try again now and I'm frustrated.  The consultant at the clinic I should be going to is off all of August too - what is it about Fertility specialists and taking August off anyway ??       

Thanks for keeping me sane ladies     

xxxxxx


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## GIAToo

Oh and another FF lady said she asked if they would wait a bit longer for the deposit and they were fine about it, so hopefully I can ask and it would only be a matter of weeks.  If I do get pg again with OE   , then I could just stay on the embryo adoption waiting list in case I should lose another baby - oh it's all ifs and maybe's isn't it - total torture!   
xxx


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## ♥JJ1♥

GAIT- I am so sorry for yur dilhema- just on Serum saying that you still have retained products, I would have thought that they should be 'out' asap as they can cause an infection and effect womb lining, could you not have it on the NHS via GP?  I had my hysteroscopy at the Hammersmith and didn't wait long.  Is it not a D+C they would be doing if there are retained products?

Good Luck


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## GIAToo

JJ1 - I am confused too tbh    Plus when the GP wrote the referral letter she said that I needed an ERPC!! When I questioned her she said that  an ERPC was the same as a hysteroscopy   However, the consultant rejected the referral saying that I could get an ERPC done quicker at my local hospital!!    I may speak to my GP again, plus today I was thinking of sending the scan pictures to my consultant at the Lister for a second opinion.

Sorry - i know this isn't about donor eggs   

xxxxx


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## ♥JJ1♥

An ERPC and hystorscopy aren't the same, an ERPC and D+C are the similar/same
A hysteroscopy is a look via a hysteroscope
An ERPC is often done blindly and involves suction/scrapping to remove the retained products of conception! my one big warning is to avoid Asherman's syndroma at all cost - I am paranoid as I have this from an ERPC, google it the best links are on you tube and the Asherman's society, only effects 2 % of women after miscarriage but means that your own lining doesn't thicken up enough for implantaion, and need surrogacy etc.


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## GIAToo

I know they're not the same, but my GP doesn't!  Oh well - I am going to just call the hospital every single day until I get a cancellation!   

Thanks everyone   
GIa Tooxx


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## GIAToo

I'm back   

Back on the DE trail.  I am in the middle of my 2WW but just think it was all a waste of time.  I got my hysteroscopy done privately (with a donation from the mutual healthcare place - still waiting for my cheque   ) and went straight into OEIVF, but responded really badly to stimms, had only one follie and opted to convert to IUI.  Only when I got to the clinic they said the vial of sperm that they had defrosted had a low sperm count  - decided to go ahead anyway and save my last vial of sperm for another go at OEIVF, but really down and feeling like it's all a big fat waste of money and my only real hope of having a child is DE.

And then trying to decide if I should got DE + ID release DS or just go for totally anonymous Donor Embryos?    

Why do I feel so angry about all of this??   I'm thinking maybe it's because I am still getting over my miscarriage and I feel angry that I lost the baby? Having conceived a baby in the way I wanted (OE + ID release DS) I felt that I didn't have to worry about all these things I'm worried about!    I felt so happy about that.  Now I'm back at square one.

Does anyone have any idea about whether I have any come back with the sperm bank on the sperm count of that vial?  Not sure I can be bothered to make a fuss, just a thought.  And obviously I did get pregnant with that donor with IVF.

And finally, I am going to have to pay my 1000e deposit to Reprofit soon, but could I get DE treatment quicker elsewhere??

Ladies, I don't expect you to answer all these questions, I just need a place to offload.   

Hope those who are pg are well   and those having tx/making decsions are ok    

GIA Tooxxxx


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## suitcase of dreams

Sending some     GIAToo - sounds like you have had a really tough time just lately

The anger is completely normal hun, took me a long time to get through my anger after the missed miscarriage and then the failed cycle after PGD showed all embryos too abnormal for transfer. I don't have much practical advice other than to let yourself feel what you feel, and remember that it will pass (even though it might not feel like it right now...)

re waiting lists for DE, I believe there is no wait for most of the Spanish clinics but prices are significantly higher than Czech. You could try Gyncentrum Ostrava - I think they have little/no wait list, similar prices to Reprofit and Ostrava is not too much harder to get to than Brno. Check out the Ostrava thread on the Czech board.

My thoughts are with you at such a difficult time. Here's hoping that this IUI turns out to be the miracle cycle for you,
take care
Suitcase
x


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## GIAToo

Thanks Suitcase    Have been looking at Ostrava.  I'm on the waiting list at Reprofit foe donor embryos so something is likely to come up in December/January for that.  Might have a look at Gennet in Prague too and Isida in Ukraine.

Just in a pickle really.......and   for that miracle   
xxxxxx


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## blueytoo

GIAToo just a really quick reply to say that as far as I know Reprofit is the only clinic in Czech Rep that will accept single women, that's what I remember from my research when I checked last year.


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## suitcase of dreams

Pretty sure Ostrava will accept singles, but Gennet in Prague does not...

Suitcase
x


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## GIAToo

Thanks girls    

Shame about Gennet as I have a contact in Prague that I could've stayed with    I have asked Isida and they do treat single women - I also have some contacts in Ukraine.

Feeling a bit more optimistic today about IUI - but am really going to carry on exploring all my feelings about DE while I wait.  One thing that came up for me yesterday is the feeling of shame and, I suppose, uselessness, that I cannot/may not be able to have a child with my OE with all around me family members are knocking 'em out like nobody's business AND well into their 40s!  Hey ho - I know that's a thing I just have to deal with in time.  At the end of the day I want a healthy child and that's the ultimate goal.

Hope you all have a lovely weekend if I don't "speak" to you again soon!  
GIA Tooxx


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## specialKay

Hi Gia Too

Have you considered South Africa for egg donation? Total cost (inc. flight etc) would be similar to Spain, but you get a great holiday on top of the treatment . You can import your own sperm if you want, and egg donors can be found via agencies (you have to pay a fee for their services). You can choose from profiles like the ones some sperm banks have, and although ED is anonymous in South Africa, some donors are willing to be contacted by the child via he donor agency. There's lots of info on the South Africa thread if you're interested.

Best wishes
specialKay


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## GIAToo

Thanks specialkay    Funnily enough I was looking at CFC and Nurture at the weekend, so I'm going to keep looking into that.  At the moment, my choices will be financially driven unless I get a job sooner rather than later   

Thanks again 
GIATooxxx


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## GIAToo

Hi everyone 

Feeling a bit low today.  Tested again this morning (don't shout at me) and it was negative so I'm sure I'm not pregnant.  AF feels like she's on her way so I'm just preparing myself for that. OTD is tomorrow., bu

I want to ask a question to those who have gone down the anonymous sperm donor route.  Financially donor embryos is a much better choice for me right now.  However, as a single Mum I think I should at least get an ID release sperm donor so that if my child (  ) wants to look up their heritage they can.  I know there are no guarantees that the donor will have kept in touch with the clinic etc, but at least I would have done all I can to allow the child to get in contact/look them up.  I don't feel as strongly about the egg donor because I feel the child will have ME so there is a definite Mum figure (hope that makes sense), but there will be no father figure.  

Would anyone be willing to share with me their thoughts on this? If they striggled with it and how they got their head around it?

I am so worried about money and not having a job and already having a huge credit card bill to pay off, and I'm not sure that finances should drive this very difficult decision, but I guess it plays a part in everyone's decision making process to an extent and I shouldn't beat myself up about that.

Hope everyone is well and thanks for reading   
GIA Tooxx


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## suitcase of dreams

PM'ing you GIAtoo

Suitcase
x


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## GIAToo

Suitcase, Cem and all the other lovely ladies that have PMd me - THANK YOU     

I just wanted to say for the record that it doesn't bother me about not being genetically linked to my child, although I would be lying if I said I wasn't still going through some kind of grieving process about that, but the thought that my child will resent me if I have no information at all about them.

Actually, I have been made to think about why it is important to have an ID release sperm donor but not an ID release Egg donor, so I am thinking that one through again!   

From my very first BFN I started talking to the clinic counsellor AND my own counsellor about using donor eggs, so I am hoping that by the time I get around to doing a donor egg cycle, I will have resolved all my issues (well, most of them anyway   )  

I believe that the important part of being a mother is the raising of the child and teaching them values, caring for them  when they are ill etc etc and if I had to choose between adoption and egg/embryo donation, it's a no brainer (the latter being my preferred choice) although not anything to do with me wanting to give birth     I also believe everyone I know who says that their double donation child(ren) is theirs 100%.  So I really am not worried about that.

I'm worried about the child wanting info on the donor(s) that they can't get.  I'm reading a book about it all at the moment (Mommies, Daddies, Donors and Surrogates) and there seem to be a lot of DC children who want that information   , with some going to great lengths to find the identity of anonymous donors.  That's what worries me.

Anyway, sorry, enough rambling from me.  Just trying to articulate my thought processes as I work my through them all.   

Thanks again everyone - and I will personally reply to all PMs asap.  Obviously got to get my final pg test out of the way tomorrow ...........
Night 
GIA Tooxxx


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## midnightaction

GIAToo

I wanted to add my thoughts on the matter in the hope they may hope. I am using Donor Embryos(Both Donors are Non ID release), and have had one cycle with them (which was a BFN) and will be cycling again in 4 weeks time. The decision to use DE was a very easy one for me, I have been having IVF for about 6 years now and it has become very clear over that time that my own eggs were not up to the job, and I got to a point where I decided my need to have a child was greater then my need to have a genetic link so the choice for me was pretty easy. Do I want to be using DE at 30 ? Well no not really, it's not really what I had planned, but if it means I have a baby in my arms then I am so ready to do it.

I have no issue with a Non ID release Donor Egg because as far as I am concerned I will be this babies mother and I am making the decision on behalf of that child (right on wrong) that they don't need to be able to trace their "genetic" mother. Whether that is right or not, only time will tell, I do believe though that what happens and how the child feels is very much down to the way you bring them up and what you do or do not tell them. I won't get into the in's and outs of telling V's not telling here, because it is a very hot topic and one that covers a multitude of opinions, and it is not my place to say what is right or wrong. 

What I did have issue with and what took me so long to come to terms with was the lack of ID release sperm. This might seem ridiculous seeing as I have no issue with the non ID realease donor egg, but to me the sperm situation seemed different, as it appears to for you. Like I said I will always be this babies mother, but this child would have no way of identifying with a "father" in anyway other than a few brief descriptions and that really upset me. In all my OEIVF cycle I had painstakingly gone through lists of donors trying to find one who matched the "perfect" criteria of what I wanted a sperm donor to be, and to now have that choice taken out of my hands along with the idea that my child would never be able to trace them was a hurdle that was difficult to get over.

My problem was how close I am too my Dad, we are like best friends, we like the same things, we can talk for hours about absolutely nothing and he is the person in the world who "gets" me the most. I love him so much and the thought of not having him in my life fills me with dread. I was so worried of putting my daughter (or son) in the same situation as that by not letting the have access to their "father" in some way or another. It took me a long time to overcome this but what did it for me was thinking that my Dad is so important to me, and my rock because he has been there every single day of my life. He was there when I was born, he was there to see me growing up, and he was there to walk me down the aisle (hey we all make mistakes !!  ). My point is if I had never had my Dad in my life I would never miss him because I would not have him to miss (If that makes sense). Kinda like I have never had a brother, do I get upset at the thought that I do not have a brother in my life ? No because I have never had him to miss. I know thats a very different situation to the genetic link to a "father" but I am just trying to put down into words how I got things clear in my head and to me it was a simple case of my child will never miss what they have never had.

I think as a single mother by choice before our child is even born we are making so many decisions on their behalf, and I think these long deep thought processes are what make us wonderful mums. We make lots of decisions for our child, right up until they are 18, and sometimes even further. Are they always right ? Probably not. But the fact that we do them out of love and because we think that we are doing the right thing then thats what is important.

I hope that you make the right decision for you going forward, if you wanna chat any more then please do PM me 

Sarah xx


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## suitcase of dreams

Sarah - isn't it interesting how our own personal circumstances have such an influence on how we feel about all this? My own father died when I was just 14 and I have very few memories of him now - I've lived without a father far longer than I lived with one and other than photographs and the little my mum says, he's all a bit of a blur. So for me in a way the sperm donor side of things was less of an issue. I know it's quite possible to turn out OK without a dad. Of course I'd rather mine had not died when I was young, but he did and these things happen and both I and my 2 sisters have gone on to have happy and successful lives despite this...

Whereas on the other hand I've always been really interested in the family tree and have traced ours back to the late 1700s in many cases. I've visited the farms and villages where my ancestors used to live and the graveyards where they are buried, and read about the jobs they did and what their lives were like. And so I feel rather sad that my children will not be able to do that. The most I will be able to do is take them back to where they were conceived, but I won't even know for sure that their genetic background is Czech as donor's nationality is not amongst the information given. 
However, just because the family history is interesting to me, doesn't mean it will be to my children. Neither of my sisters is even remotely interested in what I've found out, they just indulge me my little hobby and have a bit of a joke about it!

Ultimately, who knows how our children will feel about all this? This double donation to single mothers by choice is a relatively new thing and most of the existing 'data' on donor conceived children seems to come from those in 2 parent families who used _either_ sperm _or_ egg donation, not both. As Sarah says, all we can do is make the decisions we feel are best at the time and hope that everything turns out OK in the end.

What makes me very happy though is knowing that there are other women out there in the same position as me, whose children will be growing up at the same time and with the same experiences and challenges. It is a great comfort to know that we are going to be able to work through some of these things together and that our children will know other children 'like them' in terms of how they were conceived

And I very much hope that both you Sarah and GIAToo are able to join us very soon. Wishing you both the very best with your next cycle (GIAToo I think today is OTD so actually wishing you the very best that you don't actually need another cycle and all these DE conversations become irrelevant to you!)

Suitcase
x


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## GIAToo

Sarah - thanks so much for your thoughts.    You totally get where I'm coming from, but you also have put another perspective to help me get my head round things - which is just fab.  You're so right about not missing what you never had.

Good luck with your next cycle hun          I so hope it's the one as you've been through so much.     

Suitcase - you made me laugh when you said your sisters indulge your little hobby    Thanks again for your imput.   

I got a BFN this morning so DE is looking more and more likely.

GIA Tooxxxxx


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## suitcase of dreams

GIAtoo -     for your BFN, so sorry hun....

Yes, my sisters think it's hilarious that I wander round graveyards in rural Wales (most of my ancestors are Welsh farmers...) looking for family gravestones. I just find it fascinating how people lived and when you go to the actual villages and farms you can imagine a bit what life was like for them. I also have one side of the family who came from Lancashire and worked in the cotton mills, so that's my next destination - although probably not for a while now!

Suitcase
x


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## ♥JJ1♥

SUITY  the geneology info does sound fascinating, I have said to my Mum I'd like to research it, as once my mum has gone as far as I am concerned that is the end of my family. My Mum says not to as you might not like what you find! Her father was much older than her mother and Irish, second family etc, he died when she was 16. I'd be interested in how you got into it and started your search you see lots of companies advertising on the internet
L x


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## midnightaction

GIAToo

So sorry hun that it was a BFN, they never get any easier, I hope that your taking care of yourself right now and that you spoil yourself over the next few days   

I am glad that I could add a new perspective for you and I hope that it helps

Suity

It is so weird how different circumstances in our lives make us behave and want to do different things. I have a massive love of history of all sort, I would say it is probably my all time favourite past time. I will go to churches, museums, art galleries, old buildings, anywhere I can get a sense of some history, I love finding out about the past. I could tell you anything about anybody from history apart from anyone in my own family tree who I know absolutely nothing about. My Dad has tried to get me to research my family tree many times but I am just not interested. I don't know anything past my grandparents and then I only know very limited things about them, that my parents have told me. I believe I am who I am because of the way I was brought up and the experiences I have had so I don't need to know anything about any ancestors as who they were is no reflection on me.

Isn't it great we are all so different, it makes for a very interesting life indeed   

Sarah xx


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## suitcase of dreams

JJ - I started as a school project when I was in my teens! Lost interest for a long while and then picked it up again a few years ago. Best place to start is with family - ask questions, gather information, old photos, certificates (birth/marriage etc) and then go from there....
Irish genealogy is more of a challenge as their records aren't as good as English/Welsh/Scottish but it can be done. And all births/deaths/marriages are registed since 1837 and there are websites you can go to (freebmd is one) where you can look up details and order certificates
I also use ancestry.co.uk which requires an annual subscription but is good for having loads of records online...

Happy to share more on this if you're interested PM me!
Must dash, have to go to the dentist now   
Suitcase
x


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## cocochanel1

Just wanted to add some      for GIAToo - so sorry hun. 
Sarah, your post is lovely - you make some very true and wonderfully thought provoking points.
Suity, interesting to hear about your research and isn't it funny that you are interested in it and your sisters aren't - it almost suggests a genetic disposition to be interested or not in which case none of us will be able to predict whether our LO's will want to go down that line or not - comforting in some ways as it takes it out of our hands!?

Coco xxx


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## lulumead

Hello all,


Just wanted to say thanks for these conversations...I am also thinking about donor eggs or embryos at some stage and its good to hear what you have to say. I had to think about alot of these issues with adopting from China, but it feels very different creating a baby who couldn't trace genetics, to adopting one that already exists who can't   


Actually that icon   , pretty much is my face at the moment   


I might have some more questions/thoughts at some point. Not sure what I do next, as IUI worked!


xx


----------



## munkehella

Hello everyone 

I am new to this thread and about to embark upon treatment in Valencia through the GCRM in Glasgow where I will be using DE and DS.  
I have struggled with the whole anon thing and one of the things I found really helpful is the Donor Conception Network where I have had a look at some stories from adults and children conceived through donors.  I also bought a couple of their how to tell books and found it really helped me get some perspective on the whole thing.  I would really recommend the site and their booklets.

Hope this may also help others out there who are considering this route as I found it invaluable 

  

Munkehella x x x


----------



## GIAToo

Thanks Munkehella.  I have kept off the DCN as I thought there was little help for those who had chosen the anonymous route.  

Right now it feels like OE and DE are two separate things in my head and I can't reconcile the two.  I mean, when I think about DE (or donor embryos) and all the issues surrounding that, to tell or not, anonymous or not, etc, I feel like I am getting clearer on the way forward.  But then something will remind me of my miscarriage and then I feel desperate to get pg again with my OE   
Driving myself   .  I even made a pros and cons list ages ago and there were so many more pros for DE, but I am still struggling.

I saw the counsellor at the Lister today and she explained that it is linked to my feelings of self-esteem and identity etc, which made sense.  She also told me to give myself time as grief and loss are complicated.  She also said that whether I went for anonymous or ID release donors didn't matter in terms of how the child would think of that, what mattered more was what I thought about it and I should ensure that I was happy and comfortable with my decision before I went down that road, because any doubt/unhappiness about my decision would be projected on the child conciously or unconciously.  Hope I am making sense! It is 1.45am and I really should go to bed!   

Night 
GIA Tooxxxx


----------



## Candee

Hi GIAToo,
I am sorry you are struggling with the DE issue... I think the counsellor is right, that you need time, you need time for yourself to work through your feelings - you have to give yourself plenty time to grieve, because, until you are ready to give up on the idea of an own egg baby, you can't take the step to move on to donor eggs. 

But if you can go through that process, if you can just imagine being pregnant, having the whole pregnancy, 9 months in which you focus on the baby growing inside and then giving birth and holding the baby you have grown, the child will be 100% yours, in your arms... I know that your DE baby has grown from something so tiny the naked eye can't see it that is not yours, but honestly, that baby in your arms can't feel like anything other yours, as you hold it, knowing that you are the only mummy it will ever know... To me, once you are ready to accept it, donor egg is a miracle of a chance for your own child.

Sending so many cyber hugs to you and to anyone else who is wrestling with these issues


----------



## suitcase of dreams

GIAtoo - sounds like the counsellor made a lot of sense and it's good that you have that chance to talk things through and to help you think about your options and next steps

Looking back I think for me moving to DE was not even a black/white decision in the sense that I did not reach the point where I suddenly said, OK, now I'm totally OK with DE, let's get started!

Instead it kind of crept up on me over time. And even during the DE process itself I still had moments of questioning it - for example when I got my donor details, or when I had the DR injection which signified the start of the process for real, or when I went in for the actual transfer. And now I'm pregnant I still have moments of wishing I could have used my own eggs, especially when I see other women my age with similar histories to me having success with their own eggs. But these moments are few and far between and the joy of being pregnant far outweighs them.

And for me I think I just reached the point where what mattered most was having a family, and I could not go on with the physical, emotional and financial investment of OE, knowing that my chances of it resulting in that family were so low (I was quoted less than 5% chance by this point)
But everyone's 'tipping point' is different and everyone's experience unique and I think as both Candee and your counsellor have wisely said, you need to give yourself the time to work through this.

And I think you maybe also have to acknowledge that perhaps you won't actually work through it, that perhaps you will decide DE is not for you. I think sometimes there is an assumption that if you can just let go of your grief around not being able to use OE, then you can move to DE and that's it. Whereas actually for some people DE just isn't the right thing and nothing can change that. Not saying this is the case for you, but just wanted to sow the seed that actually you don't _have _to come to terms with it if it's ultimately not the right thing for you

Anyway, rambling a bit now so will sign off, but am thinking of you and hope you work things out, 
take care
Suitcase
x


----------



## daisyg

Hi everyone,

Excuse the barge - just wanted to stress that as a single mum to twins conceived via donor embryo in Spain, I have found lots of relevant info. and support at the DCN.

The info. is relevant whether you are using anonymous donors or going abroad.  In fact, most of the women I am in touch with socially have gone abroad for DE/double donation and find equal support there.  Don't forget that most of the members using donor sperm will have used anon. donors - so I certainly have not felt excluded.

However, I totally understand why there is this perception re DCN, and like any info. it is there should you feel the need and when or if you are ready.

So many people are going abroad now that they simply wouldn't have any members if there was any exclusion for this!!

I wish you the best of luck.  Take your time to grieve and get as much information as you can so you feel comfortable.  I know it takes time to come to terms with the loss of OE, but this opportunity is so wonderful....

Best to you,
Daisy
xxx


----------



## GIAToo

Candee - thankyou.  I don't doubt what everyone says about having a donor conceived child. When I think about that I am totally comfortable with it. It's just thinking about giving up on my own eggs 

Suitcase - "_And for me I think I just reached the point where what mattered most was having a family, and I could not go on with the physical, emotional and financial investment of OE, knowing that my chances of it resulting in that family were so low_" *- I'm getting there*

"_And I think you maybe also have to acknowledge that perhaps you won't actually work through it, that perhaps you will decide DE is not for you._" *- I've been thinking about this too and it's one of the reasons I've been thinking that maybe I should accept that I wasn't meant to have children. I want to get (closer) to a place where I am comfortable about using DE.*

Daisy - thanks for that, I did have a look at the DCN website today and my close friend (who has double donation twins) is a member, so I did realise this week that they will support you even if your donors are anonymous  I am looking to go on one of their Preparing for Parenthood workshops.

Thanks a lot ladies, you're all amazing and I really do appreciate hearing all your thoughts. I probably have repeated myself a bit on this thread, but as soon as I feel I've resolved something in my head, another thought pops up! 

Todays decision is to go for fresh DE with ID release sperm and wait for my Reprofit slot in May. Who knows what I'll decide tomorrow!!  

GIATooxxxxxx


----------



## suitcase of dreams

One of the things which finally decided it for me was imagining the 2 scenarios - what would be worse, doing DE (ie accepting I can't use my own eggs/have my own genetic child) vs not doing DE and therefore not having a child at all
And essentially then I realised that I would go ahead with DE because the alternative was just inconceivable (forgive the pun!)

Which makes it sound like DE was a negative choice - ie I did it because there was no alternative, and that's not quite what I mean (and certainly not what I feel now I am pg, I don't feel negative at all about these babies)...it's more that thinking through the different scenarios helped me to come to that final decision rather than going round in circles (although I did a fair bit of going round in circles myself before I got to that point!)

anyway, glad it's all helping and best of luck with next steps
Suitcase
x


----------



## GIAToo

Suitcase - that's what I've been doing too, imagining no child OR (worse) my cousins children starting to have their children and me still being childless.  When I think those thoughts, there is no doubt in my mind about using DE.  I think basically I am just struggling on the "giving up with my OE".  

If I had the money, I wouldn't hesitate to try one more time with my OE (thinking of a mini IVF at Reprofit), but money is an issue right now and I think that is what is upsetting me.  I need to feel I have tried everything with my OE first and I don't feel I can do that at the moment    That's what I mean by it feeling like it is two separate issues, if that makes sense.

Actually this is good because it is helping me clarify what is going on in my head!! Not an easy task I assure you!    

GIA Tooxxxx


----------



## suitcase of dreams

yes, totally see what you mean. On the one hand I really felt I'd tried everything with my OE - all the immunes, PGD etc etc...so in that sense I knew it was for me at least the right time to move on....and yet I think it can be very hard to make that final decision - easy to say one more go, one more thing - and there is a tiny part of me even now wonders maybe if I should have gone back to IUI - worked for Lulu/Coco etc...and then I remind myself that I am not them and that I did what was right for me....
must be hard if it's finances standing in your way of closure though - hope you manage to work things out in that respect

Suitcase
x


----------



## munkehella

Hello Ladies 

I have been thinking about all the recent replies and I thought I would try and explain the process I went through to come to the DE/DS decision.

Firstly I think after getting 3 embs on my 3rd attempt OEIVF - I was relatively optimistic - that I could do this with my OE.  But when it didn't work I was devastated to say the least but still decided to plough on again having a further unsuccessful attempt.  During this time the emotional roller-coaster became too much for me - all consuming.  After that I became to question whether I could cope with this and the pressure I was putting myself under and the changes that I have put myself through whether it was taking supplements and acupuncture - I tried it all.  I guess that made me think I want the best odds to have a child and 70% success rate with DE versus 16% with OE plus the emotional strain made me question the OE route again. 

Secondly when I discussed my treatment options with my consultant he said that given my age and my AMH even if I met the man of my dreams tomorrow I would probably still have to consider the DE route - which I have to say has really helped me reconcile some of my feelings. 

That then made me think about choices.  Over the years I have had a couple of serious relationships which ended .  In all these instances the individuals involved had said yes to having children with me, then they ended up marrying someone else and having children with them.  Am I angry with them - of course - but also I say to myself why should I punish myself for decisions/choices relating to past partners by not allowing myself to fulfill my dream of having my own family.  These guys went off and did it ,  so why can't I? OK it isn't the route I would have gone down but I could be miserable for the rest of my life about the decision not to have children or do something about it and make it happen. I would rather say I gave it my best shot than not try at all as for me having a family and making the decision to do it on my own felt like a relief.  When I had my M/C 2 years ago it gave me a real shock that for years my feeling of strength to have a family to an extent had been suppressed by other individuals who then went off and did it themselves. 

Fourthly I have had extensive counselling which has covered my feelings, perceptions from other people and how to tell a child - a whole range of things I have discussed with my counsellor and continue to do so.

I have spoken to other women who have gone through DE with their partners and have found it interesting to see what their thoughts were.  Interestingly one friend said to me her fear was not about the anon thing - but whether she would love her child or could she reject it when she saw it.  She said that when she had her 1st kick all those feelings passed immediately.

I then spoke to a couple of friends who were adopted and both actually tried to find their biological mothers.  Both of them did but then something stopped them taking it any further as both said that the Mum who had raised them was their Mum not the biological person who had created them.  One of them said she wished she hadn't looked for her biological mother which I found interesting as for her it actually added nothing to her life.  For her, her adoptive Mum was the person who was there when she cried as a child, mopped up her tears, supported her and loved her - that was the important things to her, not where she came from.

The reason I went onto DCN was I was struggling with do I tell my child that they are from anon donors and I decided after reading some of the info on their site and also buying a couple of books - that for me personally honesty is the way forward.  Hence I needed some direction on how to do this and how to feel comfortable within myself that I could handle this and how to handle it in a manner that it didn't become the overriding issue for my child.  I have found the information very helpful - so I would recommend even just a look at this.  Plus there are groups to join too which I may consider sometime through this journey.

I think one of the things is that DE is possibly more common than we think but no-one talks about it.  DS is almost fashionable well Hollywood seems to think so in the films that have been released of late.  When I hear about celebrity births at the age of 48 - that is likely to be DE - whilst I am not saying women should be outed for this - but it gives me comfort that more women are considering this and following this route. 

Don't get me wrong do I have moments of OMG!! yes I do but going through the process I have gone through plus grieving the loss of my OE - I feel I can move forward now down this route.  I believe I will bond with my child by carrying it for 9 months and will nurture it - I will be keeping it alive through me - so a bond will be formed.  A donor isn't a Mummy or a Daddy - the Mummy will be me - the person who loves, cares, nurtures, has sleepless nights, worries, has moments of frustration and immense joy with my child - that I believe is important.  I also believe its a positive choice too - we are fortunate that science has progressed to such a level these dreams can be achieved 

Not sure if my ramblings help  
 

Munkehella x x x


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## hopehopehope

bookmarking - i'll be back!


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## GIAToo

On 19 October 2010 I wrote "imagining no child OR (worse) my cousins children starting to have their children and me still being childless" and literally 10 days later I found out that two of my cousins were going to be Grandmothers!  Since then one of pregnant girls (who was only 17) has had an abortion. The other one is still pregnant. I burst into tears and I said without thinking "She's not even married!" and my cousin immediately said "neither are you". I didn't have the presence of mind to respond, but later I felt really angry as to me I am NOT doing this alone by choice, I'm doing it alone because I ran out of time to meet a prospective father  If I were still 25, there's no way I would have got pregnant with a guy I'd only known for 8 months. I don't mean to sound righteous, but it just adds to my feelings of anger and resentment about being "careful" all those years like a good girl and where did that get me??

Oh Gawd, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to go off into one about that - I just thought it was funny that I had said what I said and as if by magic, my worst fear happened!

However, I have started my DFET cycle and I keep having panics about what I'm doing and have taken to reading all the posts from women my age (and older) who have got pregnant with their own eggs - talk about torturing yourself.  When I am feeling less emotional, I believe that I am doing the right thing and physically/emotionally I couldn't keep putting myself through more OE cycles with the rollercoaster that entails, just as *Munkehella* says in her lovely post.  As soon as I had the first scan on my last OE cycle and it showed one measly follie and a thin lining, I knew I couldn't carry on and things "down there" seemed to be getting worse. I just hope the Progynova helps my lining with this cycle!

I know that the baby will be mine and all that,  I actually get pregnant, but I still worry about the whole anonymity thing. I'm so scared any child will resent me for this decision..........

Hope everyone else is ok  

GIA Tooxxx


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## hopehopehope

Gia - last week i typed in 'donor egg child' into google videos as watched alovely video by a teenage girl about the fact that she was from donor eggs - i'll be back with the link in a mo....










 made me cry!

and finally.......






you're on the journey for your own miracle xx

/links


----------



## kylie1971

I just posed a whole reply and lost it grrrr

Thanks so much for this thread as it has articulated many of my thoughts, feelings, concerns and questions. Thanks for sharing your perspectives on this issue. 

I am a long time member but have never posted. I was in the UK when I joined but now live in Australia. I tried to get pregnant for 4yrs in a relationship and have had 2 ivf cycles on my own. I am approaching 40 and have been advised by my fertility specialist to look at donor eggs and not waste any more money (yes there are some out there not in it for the money) and am looking to some European clinics. I have emailed repromed in Czech Republic and have been told they do not treat single women as it is against the law - but I have seen some single women here treated by them - any insight into this??

I am also looking at serum in Greece and some clinics in Asia (Thailand and the Philippines) although an Asian clinic adds a whole extra layer of complexity due to differences in cultural heritage and the extra layer of difference/otherness this creates.

SOOO much to think about - thanks again for this thread!!

Kylie (ps LOVE the spell check a rarity on a forum)


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Hi Kylie, and welcome   

Whereabouts are you in Oz? I lived in Sydney for 4 years and loved it...but eventually came home as wanted to be closer to family. Miss the good weather and the ocean though!

In Czech Rep it is officially illegal for them to treat single women, however some Czech clinics bend the rules and it's a case of what you don't tell them/what they don't ask....many of us singlies had/are having tx at Reprofit in Brno. You contact Stepan direct (can give you the email address if you need it) and simply state you are wanting a double donor cycle with donor eggs and sperm. You do not specifically say you are single, they do not ask. When given paperwork to sign, you leave the male partner section blank. 
However, if you feel uncomfortable with this, Serum has a great reputation and would be a good choice. Clinics in Spain are also quite popular here on FF, although quite a bit more expensive than Czech or Greece I think
Not sure how easy it is with flights, but South Africa might be another option for you? They have good clinics in Cape Town and one of the benefits (for some, depending on how you perceive it) is that you get much more info about donors over there....

Best of luck and do keep posting now you've started   
Suitcase
x


----------



## kylie1971

Thanks Suitcase for your prompt response knew there had to be a way around it!  I am in the Blue Mountains which I love gonna be VERY hot this week though something i never get used to even though I was born here and lived most of my life here!! Lived in London and Brighton for 7 yrs and LOVE the UK and would move back in a heartbeat if I did not have my family here.

Interesting about Repromed could you (or someone)  give me approximate costs?? The worry I have about using a clinic sooo far away is that if it does not work first time and I need to go back for FET's the cost and time would be prohibitive. I would be willing to relocate to the UK  (am a dual citizen) for a year to allow for me to be closer to the clinics - still lots of thinking to do. My fertility specialist recommends Sth Africa but am not sure about this option need to do some more research- have emailed nurture and waiting to hear back.

I am a member of an excellent solo mums by choice forum in Australia but only a handful of the members have used egg donors so wanting some wider experience of the clinics and options available. 

I have reached the decision to use donor eggs relatively quickly (after finally admitting how much I wanted to be a mother)and one thing I will say is that I really feel the time pressure is off, as although I want to be young enough with my children, knowling the eggs I use will be young and are relatively easy to access I can relax a little and be REALLY ready rather than rushing due to MY age.


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Hi there,

Oh, Blue Mountains, lovely  Got some good friends who live round there and it's so beautiful....I miss Australia....

Anyway, Reprofit costs approx €3900 for DE cycle with fresh eggs and sperm, and €1000 for a frozen donor embryo cycle. These prices are going up in July this year I believe - not sure how much to though...

Fresh has supposedly higher success rates and if you get some embryos to freeze it gives you a 2nd chance if the fresh doesn't work and/or for siblings! Although not every fresh cycle results in some to freeze so you can't rely on that. Frozen has supposedly lower success rates but is significantly cheaper. 
I did a fresh cycle, got 5 embryos, 2 put back, 3 frozen. It didn't work, but I had 2 of the frozen ones put back and am now pregnant with twins...which sort of puts paid to the theory that fresh is better than frozen but I guess we're all different! 
With fresh you get more choice of donor and can be more specific about their characteristics (physical at least), whereas with frozen it tends to be a more limited choice - depends how important this is to you

Waiting lists are quite long though - up to 10 months for fresh and 4-6 months for frozen at the moment I think

Have a read through the Czech threads for more info: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=347.0

Reprofit's website is here: http://www.reprofit.cz/index.php?lang=en
Don't contact the general info email though, you need to contact Stepan Machac direct (otherwise you run into the single women issue). His email is [email protected]

Good luck, keep in touch!
Suitcase
x

/links


----------



## hopehopehope

auity - can i just ask yu advice about donor eggs please - I have asked Stephan losts of times now avbout choosing 
donor characteristics and he keeps replying that he will tell me 5 weeks beforehand. He has not even asked me what my
requests are - so how can he be lining up a suitable donor - can you help??


----------



## kylie1971

Thanks again suitcase - that is REALLY cheap!! I though serum was cheap at 5000 (no euro sign on an aussie keyboard!) 

Thanks for all the info - i DID contact the general email as it was the only contact I had at the time. Will definitely check out those threads as it would be doable if i relocated to the UK for a year. 

So much to think about and consider - Australia is soo bloody far away from what i need to be near right now!


----------



## GIAToo

Hopex3 - I was sent some forms to fill in asking about which basic characteristics I wanted for egg and sperm donor.  Perhaps you could email Eva and request the forms?  I have her email address if you need it.

Kylie - lots to think about for you and logistics to sort out, but you'll get there, one way or another   

GIA Tooxxx


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## suitcase of dreams

hopehopehope - yes, as GIAToo says, you should have been sent a form to fill in for donor characteristics, so if you have not received this, request one now
I would also emphasise on the form and/or in cover email which characteristics you consider 'essential' to match vs 'nice to have' - so they can take this into account 
For eg I wanted blonde hair/blue eyes and would not have compromised on this, but was happy to be more flexible on height, weight, blood group etc etc....

Best of luck
Suitcase
x


----------



## hopehopehope

Than Suity and Gia - i did ask Eva and she said she had passed it on to Stephan and he didn't respond properly - i will try again!!


----------



## daisyg

Sorry to barge this thread.

Shout out to Suitcase and others at Czech clinics.  Out of interest, have you been given the Nationalilty of your donor/s?  I am finding the lack of this information very hard now that my children are asking questions about their donors and I can't tell them this.  My clinic in Spain will only give me blood group and age.  Was interested to see that you potentially have more info. in Czech Rep.??

Thanks,
Daisy
xx


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## suitcase of dreams

Hi Daisy,

No, we don't get nationality. Info we do get is: height, weight, hair and eye colour, blood type, age. And I think for the sperm (but not egg) donor I also got level of education. 

I am also curious about nationality and whether my donors were Czech or not. When the twins are born (6 weeks to go!!) I will email to inform the clinic and at the same time I will ask if they can provide this info, so we'll see 

Suitcase
x


----------



## fritzy69

Hi GIA Too,

I am 41 and single and have the same dilemma as you regarding donor eggs. All of the clinics right you off as being useless if your AMH level is too low. Mine was 0.99 a year ago and I was told DE was the only option for me.

I have taken my time over the last year thinking long and hard about what to do. I am returning to the RMU in leeds tomorrow to see a different consultant. I had been there previously as well as CARE in Sheffield. I have got fit and healthly, lost loads of weight and have tried naturally using a sperm donor friend for over a year. I want to try IVF with my own eggs even though the odds are against me. I am then going for the embryo option as it's cheaper and there are shorter waiting lists - none at all if you go abroad.

I am here if you need to chat as I fully appreciate all of your doubts. There are so many pro's and cons but if it means having a child via DE then that is far better than a life without a child in my eyes.

Good Luck and please update us.

Jane xxx


----------



## carnivaldiva

Hi all,

Just book marking, if you don't mnd me joining in?  

I'm not opposed to DE.  Like you I'd rather be a mother and have a family of my own than not. 

I was going to try again in March with OE, now not so sure.  Maybe I'll just jump in with DE & DS.  It's just that going to Europe mightnot be so easily available.  Black DS certainly not a problem here but the wait for DE is sooooo long.

Gia2, so excited for you.  Try to rest up a bit though


----------



## hopehopehope

Dais- i was really interested to see your post - how are your children about the DE situation? I am so worried if i opt for this then it wont feel right...... Dh's antipathy doesnt make me feel any better. 

suity, i cannot believe you only have 6 weeks to go - try to get some rest now!! When are you stopping work??


----------



## suitcase of dreams

stopped work 2 wks ago     
just too tiring and could not concentrate....
spending lots of time with books and daytime TV now


----------



## hopehopehope

oh can  i join you!!


I was assaulted at work today when i dared to suggest a young man didn't change into his trainers at lunchtime.  Then he walked off and said ' you shouldnt stand in my way you ****ing *****'  How am i ever going to be relaxed enough for ivf. This behaviour is becomming a daily occurence.


----------



## GIAToo

Hopehopehope - so sorry you were assaulted at work today, that's awful.    And also that DH is not being helpful in the least.    Where are you at with treatment?

Carnival diva - I am aware I owe you a PM   Sorry.  I've been ill since Saturday with a chest infection (currently on 20 tablets a day with antibiotics!).  I wll get back to you and answer your questions by the weekend I promise!   

Suitcase - hmmm books an daytime TV eh?  Make the most of it!   

Fritzy/Jane - hello! Nice to hear from you.  I think you should give it a go with your own eggs.  For me I had to at least try AND I had to reach a point where I had given it my best shot on an emotional, physical and financial level.  I still have doubts now, when I think about my OE and the "what ifs", but when I think about the other alternatives of childlessness (although still a possibility) and adoption, then DFET is definitely my first choice.  I worry about everything, but that's my silly nature and my logical brain KNOWS a lot of what I worry about is nothing to worry about, if that makes sense!

Hi Daisy - interesting question and I shall be very keen to see if Suitcase gets more information.

Hello to anyone else reading.   

GIa Tooxx


----------



## carnivaldiva

Hopex3, I hope the school does something about this assult.

Gia2, thanks for the pm

AFM, noty sure what to do.  Having NK tests done this Saturday, so I won't expect the results to be back until at least end of next week.  I'll make a decision if I should try again with OE, or just opt for DE.  The thing is, I still have DS at my clinic and if I go for DE I'll have to go abroad.  So I guess I'll decide if I should use it after next week.

Looking at Dogus site, they have black donors.  Haven't been able to ascertain if they have a relationship with any clinics here for scans etc.

Suity, time has gone by sooooo quickly.  It's nice to see that you're taking it easy.


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Thanks Cem - that saves me a question   

Suitcase
x


----------



## GIAToo

Thanks Cem - love your new profile pic of A!   
GIA Tooxx


----------



## hopehopehope

that really surprises me - i thought they would come from over the border in Brno. just went bonkers and sent Eva a picture of me when i was younger to 'help' them match me! SOme chance!!


----------



## suitcase of dreams

hhh - no harm in sending a pic, I think I may have done the same   (not that it helped as I have red hair and they had no red headed donors....)

hope you get your match soon
Suitcase
x


----------



## hopehopehope

Ah Suity - I was thinking about you today when i was at work - and you with your feet up reading!! 8 weeks off work before due date - i don't think i will be able to afford more than 2-3. Enjoy! I still feel a little sad as you got your BFP when i was having ivf in Reprofit and saw you in the waiting room, I so wish i was 6 weeks away form due date. You're going to have a fab spring/summer baby time - perfect for all those early mornings so all my friends say!! It was such a long road for you and i am over the moon that all has gone welll for you. xx


----------



## suitcase of dreams

hhh     - I know so well how you feel having watched so many people get their BFP but it WILL work for you soon  - just hang on in there   

Suitcase
x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Cem what a v cute photo of Alex he looks a  smiley cheeky chappie!


----------



## RichmondLass

Any ladies at the considering stage may be interested in listening to the radio 4 prog that's just been on called Mothers and Sons. The story of three relationships. Not about DE son but about as close an argument as you can get that a woman can love any baby in her arms with all her heart. Be warned. Don't listen just before going out as your eyes will be as red as mine are now  rlx


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## Candee

RL don't you find that the donor aspect is irrelevant now? TBH if I didn't come on FF I probably wouldn't think about it from one week to the next... Cem I have to agree,  your little Alex really is a cutey pie!
hhh keep going hun - as suity says you will get there      
hi to all the single-doublies/ thinking about being a single-doublie!
Candee
x


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## RichmondLass

Cem candee. Yes of course it's irrelevant. But this is the 'considering' thread. And ladies at that stage often can't actually believe they would ever get to the stage where they think it's irrelevant. I can't count the number of PMs I've had asking me the same question re donor eggs: how do you feel about your baby?  rlx


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## suitcase of dreams

good point RL - it does seem to be one of the major concerns amongst those considering DE...and yet it was the one thing I never really worried about. I worried about everything else (what they'd look like, whether they'd hate me for having anon donors etc etc) but I never worried about how I'd feel about them...and like all of you have said, the donor issue is a minor one now they are here - it's part of who they are but it doesn't define them and it certainly doesn't make me love them any less - indeed I couldn't love them more   

Suitcase
x


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## Betty-Boo

For info ....

http://donorconcierge.com/category/egg-donation

/links


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## Violet66

There is a niggling doubt I still have with donor eggs (even though I've used them twice and will again next month.) I feel a bit awkward saying it because I don't want to cause offence...but, the overwhelming majority of donors seem to be eastern european - and these people never strike me as the happiest/most humorous of people. I imagine it's due to their very sad history and, therefore, entirely understandable. But whenever I've visited countries like: russia, poland, croatia, czech republic I always find myself thinking how downcast the people seem and thinking that if I had a child like that they would not fit in with my family at all


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## suitcase of dreams

violet - no offence taken   

I guess it comes down to whether you believe more in nature vs nurture....are people born 'downcast' or do they become that way due to circumstance and environment? if you believe the former, then it may be an issue, whereas if you believe it's more down to nurture, then you and your family will be the ones who create the environment and it will be up to you to make it a happy and upbeat one   
I'm personally more of a believer in nurture when it comes to temperament...I don't think babies are born downcast/sad, and I think sense of humour in particular is very much something which is learnt/comes from the environment rather than being built in as such
I've no idea if there is any scientific research on this topic or not, it's just my personal opinion/view   

And as an aside, I studied Russian at university and have spent quite a lot of time in Russia/Eastern Europe over the years and whilst there is without doubt a difficult legacy of the communist years in many of these countries, I have not found the people to be unduly downcast by any means, particularly once you get to know them, and even more so if you speak their language

At the end of the day, we simply can't know how our children will turn out, and this is true whether we use our own eggs/sperm or not. There are no guarantees of a happy child, a sporty child, a funny child etc..and I have a feeling that this may be one of the hardest lessons of parenthood - that our children may not be what we want or expect them to be, and that we have to let go of our preconceptions and expectations and simply let them be who they are

Suitcase
x

PS mini - thanks for link, some interesting articles, am going to re-post in my guide to DE


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## Violet66

suitcase - you're right, my views on easter europeans have only been formed after casual encounters rather than any indepth knowledge.

i to and fro on the nature v nurture debate - i'd love to think nurture wins the day but I stayed in touch with some of the parents i met on my adoption workshop from a few years back and their stories seem to suggest otherwise. 

I think I'm just having one of my 'what am i doing' panic attacks that i always get before each cycle!


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## suitcase of dreams

violet - it's always hard just when you are about to cycle and all those questions start rearing their ugly heads again!

re adoption - I guess it depends what age the children were adopted, I did a bit of reading around adoption (when I thought tx would never work for me...) and it seemed to suggest that even the very earliest experiences could have a huge impact on a child, although they would not be able to remember/articulate this...so still nurture rather than nature, but very very early nurture if you see what I mean - ie a baby that is not loved/cuddled/nurtured in its early days, will grow up finding it difficult to form attachments etc - this is not their nature, but a result of what happened to them when they were tiny

but who knows? it may be that my boys will start to show traits when they get older, which I simply cannot identify, and these I will have to assume come from the donors...it's an interesting world we are creating that's for sure   

best of luck with your upcoming tx   
Suitcase
x


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## Betty-Boo

Violet - I do think with adoption it really does depend on at what age the child was adopted.  They grow so fast in their early years and absorb everything around them.  Psychologically this has been proven - so if they were not adopted in those early years but suffered in any way then this would have some influence over the child ... however nurturing parent(s ) can help that child overcome and difficulties.


Who's to say if you chose donor treatment in the UK what their up bringing was like?  Or any other western country?  


I'm all for nurture ..... 


Mini x


posted at the same time as suity ... great minds!


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## daisyg

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to add my feelings on something.  I personally do not feel that my donors are irrelevant now my children are here.  The opposite in fact.  I agree with Suitcase that my children are their own people and I think nurture has a huge part to play.  However, as someone who is actively tell, we are at an age where we do talk about their conception sometimes.  Mostly we talk about the Daddy thing (cos I am single) but we also do touch on some issues as a result of reading books together (e.g. Our Story etc).  I think the donors will be very relevant to my children, but to what extent, who knows?

So it depends on the individual I think and also maybe what stage our children are at in their development if we are tell.  Sometimes children are interested, and sometimes not.  But the fact that they are donor conceived is always there for me.  Please believe me though when I say that it doesn't affect my love for them - I couldn't love my babies any more than I do.

Don't get me wrong, daily life as a single mum of twins is hard and wonderful and thoughts of donors do not trump the everyday business of being a mum, but it is something that I regularly think about.

Just another perspective.  It is always interesting to discuss these issues and to see how we all feel as individuals about this process.

Thanks for sharing.
Daisy
xxxx


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## suitcase of dreams

Daisy - thanks for sharing, always good to hear another perspective 

I think, to articulate a little more clearly, for me, the fact that the boys are donor conceived is not relevant_ to how I feel about them_ - I am 100% their mother, I love them unconditionally and I could not imagine loving them more. I carried them, gave birth to them, and as far as I am concerned, they are my children

However, of course their donors are not irrelevant per se, and in time as the boys grow up and we start to talk about their conception (like you Daisy, I intend to be fully open with them), I am sure there will be many questions and issues to be discussed and only time will tell how important and relevant the donors are to my children

I think we're saying the same thing Daisy - having DE children doesn't change the way you feel about them or how much you love them, so in that sense it's irrelevant, but then again, it's going to be potentially much more relevant as the children grow and seek to understand more about where they came from so in that sense of course the donors are potentially very relevant indeed...

Suitcase
x


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## daisyg

Doh!  I get it now!!  I think I completely misunderstood the use of the word irrelevant here, so I apologise for that.

Yes, of course I agree with that completely.  The fact that they are donor conceived is indeed irrelevant to my feelings for them.

Sometimes it is easy to forget what it was like when I was just starting on the road to DE and the very normal worries and questions I had at that stage.  I remember when I found out I was having twins feeling really worried about treating them equally and whether I could love two babies equally at the same time.  Well I can and I do!! All normal feelings and questions.

Sorry for not getting it!!!

Daisy
xxxx


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## RichmondLass

Violet! Well as some of you know I had both donor egg and sperm at a Spanish clinic. My little boy is now a whole year old and looks Spanish I like to think and is already displaying that lovely, relaxed and sunny Spanish character that _all _Spaniards have. Now I realise he is also behaving Spanish!

I live near the countryside and whenever we drive past fields with bulls in them he presses his nose against the glass, shakes his fist and growls. A friend of mine went to Spain on holiday so brought Baby G back a little donkey. He immediately threw it out of the bedroom window! (The window was open temporarily because as my little boy has Spanish origins I keep the house very, very warm for him. Gets a bit hot for me).

And he really, really enjoys rice. Infact, it's the only thing he will eat! Must be all that paella his ancestors consumed. And another thing...although he can barely toddle, he jumps up and stamps his feet a lot whenever he hears music, particularly guitars. I now realise he's trying to dance the flamenco! Incredible.

I thought I just had a really strange little boy but now I realise it's his _genes_... Ah well, I think I'll keep him nonetheless...
RLx


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## daisyg

RL - Were you told definitely that your little boy's donors are Spanish?  Just interested because I do not have this info. for my children.


Daisy
x


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## upsydaisy

RL -   we soooooooooooooo need you on here


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## caramac

Brilliant RL!!!!


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## Betty-Boo

Upsy ... I agree totally!! Loving the foot stamping!!  "Olé!"

     

Mini x


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## Violet66

Hilarious.......


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## Teela

RL that was hilarious   

Teela
x


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## hopehopehope

RL -  Fertility treatment makes us all so serious we forget to have fun.  I think i would like a Spanish baby, or actually, maybe Swedish, cos won't they be good at making furniture?


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## Candee

RL, this is excellent news for me, because I used a sperm donor from Denmark for Mirrey - so I am assuming I can look forward to her frying me up bacon butties on a Sunday morning... Yum   
Candee
x


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## lulumead

my sperm donor is american...eek not sure about that!  Probably take over the world or something    
xx






also didn't say earlier....good luck Violet with next cycle, am sure that all will work out  -  think Suity summed it up perfectly, hard to imagine what any of our children will be like and we have to just guide them as best we can. Although clearly any baby of any of ours is totally amazing and more so than any other baby in the world     


xxxx


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## Damelottie

Candee said:


> RL, this is excellent news for me, because I used a sperm donor from Denmark for Mirrey - so I am assuming I can look forward to her frying me up bacon butties on a Sunday morning... Yum
> Candee
> x


Sort of wish I'd gone to Denmark now


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## Betty-Boo

LL ... but little Cutie wouldn't be who is is!!!  And boy ... he's cute! x x


Mini x


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## carnivaldiva

I'm due to go out to Cyprus next month for treatment.  I'm kinda feeling a little anxious at the moment.  Wish I hadn't opted for a tandem cycle and saved some money by just using DE. 
Worried that my lining won't be thick enough.  That I've gained weight.  That I won't be able to organise scans at this end, etc, etc.
Any advice on how to keep grounded? Or is that an impossibility


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## Betty-Boo

Honey - think we'd be more concerned if you had no worries what so ever... All the thoughts that went thro my head were enough to drive me   


I'm sure your lining will be fine - do you normally have a problem.  As you're doing a tandem cycle - any blips can be ironed out straight away.  


It will all fall in place ... as for scans ... where do you live?  Perhaps one of us knows of somewhere nearby...


    


Mini x


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## suitcase of dreams

carnival -    is hard to stay calm through IVF...there's always something to worry about...

no reason why your lining should be a problem, and scans are easy enough to organise - as mini says, let us know where you are and someone can prob recommend a suitable clinic (in London I always use The Birth Company in Harley St - not nec the cheapest but know their stuff and will fax results to foreign clinics for you etc)

as for keeping grounded, I can recommend a good diet, exercise, massage and other nice distractions (whatever your 'thing' is...reading, cinema, out for nice meal, dancing etc) 

good luck!
Suitcase
x


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## carnivaldiva

Thanks Mini Minx.
I live in Hampshire, not too far from Guildford.  I've spoken to a london scan centre who've quoted £240 for Antral Follicle Count and endometrium thickness scan.
Guess I'll ring around, but I'm looking at getting them done ideally 29 April, but that's a bank holiday so I guess 30 April.
Even though I'm anxious I am very excited.  Out of my week in Cyprus, according to the schedule there's about 4 days when I don't need to be at the clinic, so I guess I'll be able to bask in the sun


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## Betty-Boo

That seems extremely expensive! There must be somewhere nearer ... I think kylecat is in the area. Have you tried ringing around clinics near you? I'd expect to pay about £120 ish ...... (only paid £90 for my lining only scan)..

We'll get our heads together - am sure someone lives in that area ... might be worth starting a thread ... can't see the point in paying london prices! That seems needlessly expensive.

Oooo ... enjoy your basking!! If you're going to do it ... do it in style!      Must admit I had such a different experience this time round .... so chilled, no stress and did pretty much what I wanted to do.... heaven!

 

Mini x

PS have you tried this place? 

http://www.thesurreyparkclinic.co.uk/fertililty-fees.php
Baseline scan £90 .......

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


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## suitcase of dreams

carnival - I'm near Guildford    (as are bambiboo and starbuck, and dawn is just nearby too...kylecat is near Southampton...we're getting quite a little gang going here in Hampshire/Surrey   )

I've been to that Surrey Park scanning place mini suggests - it's up near the Royal Surrey hospital - was same price as London I think but def convenient if you are near G'ford
They are the best bet for a local place. Otherwise you'll need to go to London but don't pay £240! I paid £100 at The Birth Company in Harley St

Suitcase
x


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## ♥JJ1♥

I paid £195 per scan at 92 Harley St but at weekends & bank hold they use the nhs services at the hammersmith . I've used the birth company once as well


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## Rose39

Carnival Diva - the other ladies have given you great advice. I'd also say try to be as organised as you can so no last minute panics over if you've bought the right drugs and taken them on time, and then just take each day as it comes, as it's normal to worry about each step in the treatment, but worrying about all of them at once can be overwhelming! If there's anything particularly unusual that you're concerned about, don't hesitate to contact your clinic.

I have some hypnotherapy CDs that I find really do help, especially if I can't sleep - there is a great one on fertility by Tina Taylor, and Zita West does one for IVF that focuses on acupressure points.  I have also taken up knitting as this is believed to lower blood pressure and de-stress generally (after 2 years of knitting baby cardigans I have quite a few now!). I'd agree with Suity that distractions are good and help you to keep things in perspective. 

I've heard good things about Cyprus - actually met a lady on Thursday who had a BFP from donor eggs there. 

Good luck!

Rose xx


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## kylecat

Carnival, I'm in Southampton, about an hour from you. Maybe give Wessex Fertility at the Freya Centre a ring (in Southampton). They would certainly be open on a bank holiday and I would estimate cost of scan at around £120 as a private patient. They are used to working with other clinics as they have links with one or two of the Spanish clinics, 

Hope that helps

Kylecat x


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## carnivaldiva

Thanks ladies.
There's a clinic in Guildford that can do. Both for £180. I need one done on 29 April which is a bank hol, but maybe. I can get by if I do it 28 April. I really don' t understand why they don' t work bank hol weekends for pptivate patients.
Once again ladies thank you. Need all the positive vibes avail. 
Good luck to all those embarking treatment


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## kylie1971

Just wanted to say I love this thread - it was quiet for a while but glad to see it is back up and running!!

I am considering using donor eggs at a clinic in the Philipines as I have had it recommended and as I am in Australia I have to consider return trips should it not be successful. 

I think what i am doing is a little unusual in that I am most likely going to use my brother as a sperm donor to maintain a genetic link to my child and was wondering if anyone else had considered doing this? I do know of a couple of women who are doing this but it is certainly not common!!! Believe me I did not reach this conclusion easily and at times wonder if I am really sure, but am going to proceed with quaratining his sperm (we have to do this in Australia) so i have some choices.

It is so heartening to read about all the success stories on here - and hope to be one of them myself later this year!!


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## Candee

Kylie I had double-donor, but I think that is great that you are going to be able to keep that genetic link and that your brother will help you. I would _*really*_ like to have been able to do that, but my brother went ballistic when he found out I was having a baby on my own with a sperm donor! I think if I had asked him to let me use his sperm with an donor egg he would have completely disowned me! Considering he was a wild child, he has allowed his wife to turn him into a complete grey-haired-Mr-Boring! You are so lucky with your brother! Wishing you all the very best for your treatment     
Candee
x


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## Betty-Boo

Kylie - it is something I did consider at the start - it was mum who told me about it as she'd seen it online.


My only thoughts and obviously this is only my opinion - was what to tell the child?  I want to be fairly open with my child and thought trying to explain that their uncle is their father was just a little too confusing for me let alone a child.  However I know if I had a sister - using her eggs wouldn't be an issue at all!!  How does that work?  Think its my brain     working overtime...   


All the best on your journey honey - wishing you all the luck in the world.


Mini x


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## kylie1971

I have thought about that Mini and you are right about women not even thinking about it when it is a sister-sister donation. One of my theories is that eggs are a hidden part of life and not 'seen' whereas sperm is something external and visible and this seems to make people more uncomfortable. I was not sure about asking him but as I had been talking to my mother and sister thought I better in case he found out, so I told him in a joking way and he said YES straightaway. His wife had already offerred to be an egg donor  (but will not be) and both see it as a donation of genetic material and are quite detached.

My brother intially would have liked me to not say anything at all but after me telling him how important it was can now see how important it is. IF this does work I will be telling the child that that my brother is their uncle who was a donor of an essential ingredient needed to have them but he is not their father (i know people who use donors very rarely use the word 'father' even in a biological sense but refer to the male as a donor so I will do the same).

Am comforted that noone has gone eeeewwww yet!!! 

Candee it is a shame your brother was not supportive - is he now that Mirrey (hope I remembered right!!) is here??


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## Betty-Boo

Would never go eeewwww - really did consider it myself - for the genetic link!  Not sure  my brother would be open minded enough so never really broached the subject with him.  Would mean he'd have to put someone else before himself!      (as in prepare himself for the donor process...... - healthy living- cut back on smoking / drinking etc). 
What a wonderful supportive family you have - including your SIL - so looking forward to hearing your news as everything progresses.
I did have a cousin willing to donate her eggs - unfortunately she was classed as too old .... so it was double donor for me! Annon egg donor but a known donor from the European Sperm Bank.


     for your next steps!  Really exciting!


Take care Mini x


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## Candee

Minnie that is my position with Mirrey - anonymous egg donor and open donor from ESB.

Kylie, re: my brother -he is fine now that Mirrey is here and I would say that to anyone who is experiencing negativity from family about the choices they are making, once the baby is here, the negativity just seems to melt away! You would have to go along way to find someone as opposed as my brother was, but he is fine now... TBH how can you be offish with a baby?!   
I agree with Minnie hun, your brother and family sound brilliant  

Good luck to both of you and anyone else who is reading this and thinking about these issues     
Candee
x


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## Violet66

Kylie I think your decision makes a lot of sense. My brother is really handsome and clever - but I can't ever imagine having that conversation with him!


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## kylie1971

Violet - my brother THINKS he is handsome and clever!! Actually I think my request appealed to his ego and that is why he is doing it. His wife had already offerred to be an egg donor (i declined due to a few issues) and when friends suggested asking him I really did not think he would do it. I was not going to ask him but thought I better as I had been talking about it and did not want him to think I didn't think he was good enough so asked him in a funny joking 'guess what some people reckon i should do...' kind of way. He said yes almost before i finished the sentence!!!

I do feel very luck Candee although my mum and sister still (even after all this) think it might just be a phase and my sister is worried that I will have a child and then get bored and change my mind!! I am not the most settled person but REALLY!! Anyway just a bit of a vent there! - hope everyone is travelling well.


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## Candee

"my sister is worried that I will have a child and then get bored and change my mind!!"

Kylie  How *do* they come up with this stuff! My sister-in-law said to me, quite seriously, "You know, just wanting a child is not good enough reason for having one..." I have to say, at the other end of the process, I still think its a pretty good reason!  
Candee
x


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## Betty-Boo

Candee can't believe how old your little one is! X x


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## Candee

Can't believe how heavy she is either   

Glad that you are now out of hospital love.
Sending you all my love and hoping you are doing ok.
         

Candee
x


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## kylie1971

Agree totally Candee where do they get it from. Nobody ever asks couples questions about why they want children - isn't it because we all want to!!!

I have found an egg donor as well now which I am pretty excited about - it is a friend of mine and my only concern is that she is 38 in May but I cannot explain it but my gut feeling says go for it. The good thing is that if her initial tests do not work out I still have my brothers sperm there so I can go overseas if needed. It is amazing how things are falling into place - long may it continue!!

Mini - I just read your signature and wanted to say how sorry I am about your miscarriage - I hope you are doing Ok. There are no words but hope you have some people around you giving you TLC x


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## Candee

Excellent news about the donor Kylie    
Hoping all goes well for you hun.
Candee
x


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## hopehopehope

if it is any consolation to you singlies, i am now a couple and still get asked why i want kids (even other teachers at work - they treat it like a massive inconvenience that i go for fertility treatment) - this time......because i am too old and other people my age mostly have kids finishing primary school. I get the..... why dont you enjoy your life and go on lots of holiday......you're so lucky you're not tied down by kids..........you can go out all night without having to worry about babysitters.......... etc etc
The  fact is i dont do any of the above because all i want is a baby.


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## Candee

Oh hope hunny I wish I could give those stupid teachers a slap for you    
Why don't _*they*_ take a holiday from being completely stupid and insensitive??

There is a thread somewhere on FF called "The stupid things people say" and that is the number 1 thing that gets us I think - people who have their children pretending that you are lucky if you don't have them and going on about how you can go on nice holidays etc. I think it is just so cruel actually and, although I know that before I had my LO I was getting a bit twisted up with jealousy  , but I did used to think that some people are actually being quite hideous behind the smile and pretence that they are just being kind - someone I work with used to constantly go on and on about what she was doing with her little girl at the weekend when she knew I had just been given really bad test results and was trying to deal with it all... Now that I have had M she never feels the need to go on about how they are going to do cooking/ show me the bead set she has bought to do with her at the weekend/ tell me what book she is reading with her etc etc, all of which she used to do all the time and which was like slowly turning a knife before... Now she keeps going on about how wonderful her husband is, and how much her little girl adores him     
What can you do? Some people are just sh*ts!!!
Sending you enormous hugs and lots of            and I know you will get there hun.        
Love
Candee
x


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## hopehopehope

thanks candee - hope you and your bubba are very happy - as the daughter of a co dependant alcoholic divorced father, i can tell you that having two parents is not alway best!!


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## Damelottie

Amen to that


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