# Negative cycle chat



## beachgirl

So you can all keep contact without starting new threads thought this might be a good idea...


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## MandyPandy

Thank you!  Is there any way the thread can be made sticky?


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## beachgirl

Done x


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## MandyPandy

beachgirl said:


> Done x


Thank you!

I don't know what to say now. Ummmm...


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## beachgirl

It's one way of just talking about anything, doesn't have to be treatment related...an open forum for you...


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## Nordickat

MandyPandy - your post just made me laugh. Still feeling the pressure of finding something to say?


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## beachgirl

Good Morning, isn't it a lovely sunny day...well is it here anyhow...at home today so got all my jobs done and going to put on a film and relax now for the rest of the day..hope that you're all well.


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## MandyPandy

Nordickat said:


> MandyPandy - your post just made me laugh. Still feeling the pressure of finding something to say?


 

I couldn't handle the pressure anymore and just had to log off. 

Anyway, onwards and upwards. We're due to start a new tx cycle hopefully in April or May. We're moving clinics to the ARGC and our first appointment is on 7th April. Until then, I'm just focusing on school work as I'm soooooo far behind (I'm studying law at uni and we have exams looming).

Beachgirl - not so sunny here today (North London). It's a bit grey and cold out. Meh.


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## beachgirl

Morning, nice and sunny here again today, off to see my friend for lunch...yummy...


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## Nordickat

MandyPandy


I woke up to a blizzard! 


I hope you had a lovely lunch Beachgirl and study hard this weekend MandyPandy


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## kay13

Hello ladies,

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post, but just need to get it out...

I have just completed my first cycle of IVF with CARE Manchester and it was a BFN for us. So sad. We had 7 eggs collected which I was really pleased about - but only one fertilised. Was so gutted when we got that call. We were so shocked at the poor fertilisation - during my first go I only got 5 eggs, but they all fertilised and 4 were 8 cell 'good quality' embryos. I had a miscarriage last time - but at my review appointment after this, the Consultant was really reassuring - telling he thought my ovaries responded really well and he thought we had a good chance of a pregnancy in the future. I just feel as if all my hope has been dashed and I can't believe I've had such a different result. Thought I was doing okay, but have woken up this morning feeling rotten - could cry all day. I thought I was getting my head around it - but each day feels so different. We have been trying for 3 and a half years now and the sadness is just eating me up. I know it will get better, but today is a bad day. Have been reading FF for a while now and it really helps. So hard to talk about this stuff to my friends, it's a lonely path sometimes.


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## beachgirl

Kay, so sorry to hear your news, big hugs, I agree it is hard sometimes to talk to friends who haven't been through a smiliar thing, do you have a follow up planned?


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## kay13

hello beachgirl,

i haven't arranged a follow up yet - but will do soon. In a way, I almost want them to say stop - don't have any more treatment, which they may well do of course given my age and poor response this time.

 Going through this is a bit like being in limbo isn't it?I know it will get better - but it's just horrible after a failed cycle. You try not to hope too much that it will work - given the odds etc but you just can't help it.

Thanks for responding, it's nice to know I can post here if I need to

Kay x


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## MandyPandy

Hi Kay,

I'm so sorry to hear of your troubles.  It is really, really disheartening.

I feel like I lead a double life - I talk to everyone on here to deal with the emotional side of things and I don't talk to my friends about any of it as they just don't understand, so I'm two different people a lot of the time.

In terms of your treatment, please don't give up at this point.  There are lots of things it could be.  Have you had all of the tests done for thyroid/karyotyping/immune issues?

I'm going to get everything done before we even think of moving ahead.  Oh, and we're also changing clinics due to the shocking mistreatment by the place I did my cycle with (and yep, we are private patients).  We're moving to the ARGC and that alone has given me so much hope where I thought there was none.

Hang in there.   It's tough but I'm sure you will find the answers you need if you perservere.

I found that not only talking to people on here but also doing self hypnosis and relaxation exercises religiously helped me get through the treatment itself and researching relentlessly on here for reasons why it may not have worked has helped me keep positive afterwards.

...BUT I found the MOST important thing, was to know that it is fine to grieve.  Allow yourself to cry.  You don't always have to be strong and positive.  Life has thrown some real rubbish at all of us so it's no wonder we sometimes feel depressed.


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## Nordickat

Kay    I´m so sorry   . Less eggs and embies this time doesn´t mean the same next time. My fertilization rate varies from  10-70% and its not getting less each time, its just random so don´t give up faith in your body just yet.   


MandyPandy - I´m with you on the double life thing ......... its quite exhausting


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## kay13

Hello Mandy and Nordickat,


Thanks for your responses - it's good to know I can say stuff here that I can't out loud! It is like a double life isn't it - lots of my friends know I am going through IVF and I have spoken about it on occasion - but generally don't. I have very supportive friends, but I think most of them don't know what to say - particularly my friends with children.


As for testing - yes we will discuss that with the clinic - I booked a review in a couple of weeks. I'll wait to see what they say. I'm not unhappy with my treatment there - although I have to say that being treated privately hasn't been much different to being treated within the NHS - they still don't answer the phone sometimes!


Hope that everyone is okay. I'm on annual leave this week so going to town today to give the credit card a bit of a work out.


Take care everyone


Kay x


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## Nordickat

Happy shopping Kay


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## beachgirl

Evening, sorry not around yesterday, just bobbing on to say hello as off to wales on Thursday so lots to do, someone will be covering in my abscence so just shout if you need anything...back Monday x


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## nessiebro

hi girls, 
i hope you dont mind me jumping on your thread but i got a bfn today and just wanted to blow off some steam !!!

the double life thing is so true KAY, i can totally relate to that.

we have just had our 2nd icsi with pgd. the 1st tx got cancelled after the ec as i got ohss then we got a FET a few months later but none of the embies we suitable for bioposy (thats the pgd bit)so that was our 1st tx over.

our 2nd tx went really well, ec and et without a FET  , (got ever so slightly mild ohss but bearable and they still done the et) we got 22 eggs on ec 14 were injected and 10 fertilized, only 2 were suitable for bioposy,1 came back abnormal and 1 normal so we got a et with our 1 wee embie. my OTD was today,22nd march but i started bleeding  last nite and the blood test came back negative today so here am i feeling like ive been hit by a bus and wondering why life can be so cruel to us    

i know i will get through it but it feels like ive just lost someone close, i have that horrid sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach which im sure is normal.

im trying to think positive by convincing myself that by having this period that my body will be clearing itself of all those horrible drugs we have to take and i can get back to feeling like me again.(if thats at all possible)

phew sorry for the very depressing post, im going to go to bed and hopefully wake in the morning feeling refreshed and more positive.
thanks for taking the time to read
michellex


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## kay13

hello Michelle,


hope you do feel better today x


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## MandyPandy

Michelle.  So sorry to hear that.  

I had a rubbish day yesterday as well - I've been told that I have Hashimotos but that there's nothing I can do about it and I just have to live with it.  I'm so upset it's unreal.


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## nessiebro

Hi 
Manydpandy im sorry to hear you also had a bad day. You said you have been told that you have Hashimotos, i m sorry, i dont know what that it?

Kay13, im getting so much better as each day goes on, thank you. Hope  you had a nice weekend?

I went for a huge cycle today with my friend and we got a puncture and we were in the middle of no where with no mobile signal so we were stuck.....we figured it out eventually how to change the tyre but we laughed soooooo much trying to figure it out  it was great, just what the doctor ordered !!!!

Loosing this extra hour has knackered me so im gonna get an early night.
Take care
Michelle xx


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## MandyPandy

nessiebro said:


> Hi
> Manydpandy im sorry to hear you also had a bad day. You said you have been told that you have Hashimotos, i m sorry, i dont know what that it?
> 
> Kay13, im getting so much better as each day goes on, thank you. Hope you had a nice weekend?
> 
> I went for a huge cycle today with my friend and we got a puncture and we were in the middle of no where with no mobile signal so we were stuck.....we figured it out eventually how to change the tyre but we laughed soooooo much trying to figure it out  it was great, just what the doctor ordered !!!!
> 
> Loosing this extra hour has knackered me so im gonna get an early night.
> Take care
> Michelle xx


Hashimotos has to do with thryroid function. It's a chronic autoimmune diesease. I'm still trying to figure out exactly what it means!


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## Wakey

Hi all

I hope you don't mind me jumping in on here.  I've just had a BFN.  We've so far had 5 IUIs (7 if you count the 2 that were cancelled), 1 IVF and now ICSI.  Using donor sperm.

Kay13.  Don't give up hope.  I'm the same age as you, and my DH is the same age (or thereabouts) as yours.  I'm in Manchester - are you?  It might be worth asking about ICSI next time.  We were disappointed last time as only 3 of our 11 eggs fertilised (without any explanation why).  We only had 6 eggs this time, but 4 fertilised, so at least a better proportion.  We ended up with 2 good embryos both times with none to freeze. Both times though, I've started to bleed before OTD.  

I guess we've resigned ourselves to the fact that we will just have to try again, but wish there was some way of getting the answers we want as to why we get so far and then nothing.  Is there anything more we or the clinic could do??

Mandypandy - I'm sorry to hear about the Hashimotos.  I have an underactive thyroid, but always have the levels checked and am on replacement thyroxine.  I've never been told that this will stop us conceiving, but don't know if it is a different condition.


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## kay13

hello Wakey,


Sorry to hear about your BFN - it's just rubbish isn't it. Hope you are looking after yourself.


Yes I have had my treatment in Manchester. We've got follow up next week and will ask about ICSI - we'll see what they say. I'm not sure how much more trying I've got in me but I I think I'll feel differently as a bit more time passes.


Take care everyone,


Kayx


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## Wakey

Hi Kay13

I hope you get some answers and some positive ideas for trying again at your appointment.  I've managed to book a follow up at St Mary's for 6th May so hope they may have some suggestions for us.  I've also booked an appointment at MFS as we've used up our NHS go now (we had one cycle with MFS last year whilst waiting for Trafford to agree funding).  I know what you mean about wondering if you have the energy/capacity to try again.  I've got backache period pains at the mo - just to emphasise to me that it's not worked.  At least I've got a couple more days signed off from work to try to get my head straight before facing colleagues etc.  I guess as time goes on we can try to build up our reserves again.

Try to keep positive!

Wakey


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## Chrissy963

Hi, I'm just trying to regroup after a failed first IVF attempt with one good embryo - all looked hopeful but obviously it wasn't meant to be. I'd love some feedback from anyone who's also been here and whether they think the second round can bring positive news. I went through ARGC and would go every step of the way with them again - I think Mr T is a genius. Thanks girls if you could get back


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## Han72

Hi CHrissy so sorry to hear of your BFN hon  there's also a negative cycle thread on the ARGC boards which is a bit busier than this if you're interested? :
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=256493.540

xxx


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## Chrissy963

Thanks Han..i'll have a look Very best wishes to you


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## LillyR

Hello, I hope you don't mind me jumping in here - and it's a bit of a rant, but I don't know where else to vent it all out. Sorry that if you're on this thread it means you're having a hard time and I hope that you get good news in the future. This process is so horrible, I don't know sometimes how we all get through it. 

I had a bfn on Wednesday - not entirely unexpected as I started bleeding on Sunday. Since Sunday I just haven't been able to leave the house or speak to anyone - people know what we're going through and the calls have started coming in, but I can't face it. The worst thing is having to break the news to my parents, knowing they're upset. We've been trying for 6 yrs now and nothing. This is my 2nd icsi and I've also had an FET, all of which have been negative. Today I found out that friend's sister (the only person I know in the real world who is also having IF issues) is pg following her 1st ivf. Of course I'm happy for her but it stings that I'm the one with all the bad luck when all around me people are falling pg. Most of my 'real life' friends are now onto their 2nd, 3rd and 4th children. 

Also struggling with OH. He's been massively supportive throughout this tx - although a few years ago we did have problems, mostly because he was smoking / drinking throughout our tx and it really upset me. He gave up smoking but still drinks far more than I think is good for him - but it's one issue we can't broach without a huge argument as he gets so defensive about it. 

Now he's talking about 'how to improve my eggs / maybe go down the donor egg route / how to regulate my periods' etc - and the truth is, there's nothing wrong with my eggs (I got 22 good eggs at EC) but his SA is pretty much off the scale on most counts. He's convinced there is no need to stop (or cut down) drinking - as he said on Wednesday 'We're doing icsi, I don't need to quit, we got fertilised embryos' ..... but I want to tell him that I can't carry on putting my body and mind through all this if he's not going to do his bit to maximise our chance of success. Although he's very supportive emotionally, actually changing his own lifestyle is something he can't do (although, I do appreciate that the smoking was a massive thing for him to stop). 

It's causing real problems for us - I'm dreading going through all this again. I hate the fact that I have to be the one 'curbing his fun' and asking him to stop something he enjoys. But it just seems that lately alcohol plays such a massive part in his life, and it's coming between us. He's very good at 'convincing' doctors that he's doing all the right things, so in fact we've never been told face to face - 'you need to cut down' .... so he doesn't believe it's important. 

So I guess my 2 questions are, has anyone been through the same issues with OH? I feel like I'm the only one in tx who's husband with sperm issues hasn't quit / cut down drinking. And, how can I pick myself back up again? I just don't want to do anything or go anywhere or see anyone at the moment. I can't think of anyone I know who hasn't got kids running around, and although I've never been one of those 'I can't see children' people, this week I really feel that way. I know I have to get a grip, but this failure has made me feel that it'll just never happen for us. And every time I tell myself 'it'll be our turn next' I just feel hopeless that maybe it just won't be. I already feel that my life over the past 6 years has been taken over, and now I can't think what to do with myself to fill the hole. 

Sorry this is so negative. Just had to get it all out. 

x


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## Wakey

Oh LillyR I'm so sorry.

I wrote a long reply to you but pressed a button and lost it all and I'm afraid I'm too tired now to re-write.  However, I'll try to summarise:

I have a lot of sympathy as my ex-partner started to drink excessively and I know that it can be very stressful, regardless of the fertility issues.

Some suggestions: Try to find out if your OH's drinking is really a problem (obviously it is as it is having an effect on your relationship, but I mean in terms of guidelines).  Can you speak to your GP about it?  If your OH has the same GP can they maybe at least be a bit more probing about it to him?  Could you made an appointment with the IVF consultant on your own and discuss this issue?

If your OH is drinking over the goverment guidelins of 21 units per week, could you discuss this with him?  Unfortunately, if he is drinking very excessively and doesn't recognise there is a problem, then it will be very hard I think to convince him otherwise.  You could try contacting Al Anon for advice?  How would yoru OH feel about changing his lifestyle if you did have a baby?

I am very much an advocate of using the counselling services offered at the fertility clinics.  I have been fortunate in being able to use an NHS one and realise that it isn't cheap if you have to use a private one, but it sounds like it would be worth it.  Relate may be able to help, although they obviously wouldn't have the fertility background.

I really hope you are feeling better and that you are able to talk this through with your OH, either on your own or with the help of a counsellor and that he is willing to make some changes and compromises.

Take care and big hugs


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## MandyPandy

Another BFN for me - only 3 pages on here since my last one.

I'm going to move clinics again as I have no confidence in my most recent one after the dreadful results we got.  However, I can't help but feel that no matter which clinic I go to, I've been given everything that I'd get anyway so if it was going to work, it would have and I can keep throwing money at the problem but it will never get any better.

I can't even get implantation and feel like such a failure.  I know we've 'only' done 2 full treatment cycles but we've so far spent £20k only to still be in the same position we were at the start - childless and not knowing why.  I know it's going to mean more tests and more drugs and more heartache for the future and I wish that just once I'd know what it feels like to look at an hpt and see 'positive' on it.  I've even resorted to doing them after the HCG injection just to try it out for size.  How pathetic is that?

...and while it might only be two ICSI cycles, we're also still trying naturally on a monthly basis so at last count it was around 36 failures.

Just feeling a bit low today.  I'm reading Dr Beer's book in the hope of getting some answers or at least an alternative way forward.  I've already done most of the immune tx he suggests though, so not sure what answers I'll get.

Anyway, I'm just rambling.


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## Nordickat

Oh MandyPandy   I'm so sorry to read you are suffering so much   I can assure you there are lots and lots of us that POAS after the trigger just to see what it looks like to be pg. Have you looked at Agates FAQ on the immunes board? If not then take a look at the supplements and diet bit. Who knows what will work and what won't but maybe if you are doing something constructive then you will feel a bit better. I know it hurts but you just have to get through this grief for the loss of your dreams yet again, and then you will find a way forward and you will find the strength to try again. There is absolutely no reason why you won't be 3rd time lucky once you are ready to try again.
Thinking of you, 
Katxxx


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## LINDY15

Sorry for jumping in but I'm at rock bottom..
this week I had our 2nd failed ICSI cycle. this time around the pregnancy test was positive sunday and monday 
and then negative on tuesday. when I called my test in to the lister I didn't get any possible explanations why.
also, when I asked for counselling the next free appt is the 5th July... 
I'm just feeling so flat, sad, upset and feel like there isn't much to look forward for.
DH is being so good, but when both of you are upset it's hard to lift each others spirits. 
kept myself busy with work and have met up with friends which I've avoided the last month but
I walk through the door at home I fall apart.. 
the first time we went through this it wasn't this bad..  but I suppose this time round I'm 40 now and I feel like we're losing time... 
I only feel useful or better if I'm doing something about it. so I looked at the ARGC website and I'm a bit confused.
Do you have to do a test the month before and then wait until the next cycle before you start treatment?
it sounds so intense, but I know by Aug/sept we'll be ready for another go. 

wish I was one of those members who are positive in outlooks but right now it's 2am and looking at another sleepless night.

I'm clutching at straws and obviously not thinking straight.. but I am grateful that I can vent/moan on this site as we haven't told anyone we are going through this. 
thanks,
Lindy


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## LillyR

Oh Lindy, I was so sad to read your post - and so sorry that you've failed your ICSI. It's truly devastating, and I am continually amazed by the strength of all the ladies like you on here, who stay so strong throughout this most gruelling process. It's no wonder you're feeling so low at the moment. How cruel that you had the joy of a positive result, only to be followed by a negative. It must have made it all the more difficult. 
I wish there was something I could say that would make it all better, but, having been through similar for 6 years, and hearing all the platitudes, I know nothing actually helps. There is nothing you can do other than love each other and give yourselves time. A huge cliche, but each day that goes by, you'll get stronger and stronger and the pain will eventually lessen. Allow yourself to fall apart when you walk through the door - you're probably going to do that for a while, and it's okay to feel like that. 
I started at the Lister and had the same experience with 2 fails, before I changed clinic. I know everyone's different, but I found there to be not much TLC at all, and a long wait for any counselling, which doesn't make it easier. It may perhaps be worth going to your GP and seeing if you can get an earlier referral for separate counselling if that's what you need. It's even harder when you don't have people 'in the real world' to lean on. Similarly to you, I've always found forums like this to be massive support - so vent away!!!! 
I'm afraid I don't know anything about the ARGC so can't help. 
I hope and pray that your next round of treatment will have a happier outcome for you - don't lose hope, you still have time and miracles happen every day. It'll be your turn. Sending a big hug. xxxxxx


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## MandyPandy

Nordickat said:


> Oh MandyPandy  I'm so sorry to read you are suffering so much  I can assure you there are lots and lots of us that POAS after the trigger just to see what it looks like to be pg. Have you looked at Agates FAQ on the immunes board? If not then take a look at the supplements and diet bit. Who knows what will work and what won't but maybe if you are doing something constructive then you will feel a bit better. I know it hurts but you just have to get through this grief for the loss of your dreams yet again, and then you will find a way forward and you will find the strength to try again. There is absolutely no reason why you won't be 3rd time lucky once you are ready to try again.
> Thinking of you,
> Katxxx


Thank you for taking the time to think of me when you're going through your own issues too. You truly are amazing.


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## LINDY15

Thank you Lillyr,
Can't say I'm any better.. the tears are always at the bottom of my throat but I may take your advice and contact my GP. just not sure why it's so hard this time round.. guess it feels like another few months wasted.. 
but will keep trying, and in between we might try the old fashioned natural way .. miracles do happen !
thanks for listening,
Lindy x


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## LillyR

Oh darling, I hope you do start to feel better soon. It's the roughest thing ever - and I know how you feel about time wasted. It's hard to keep positive when you keep getting knocked. Of course you are going to be teary and that's fine. You have to allow yourself time to grieve and be angry. I believe, more and more, in some kind of fate. And although it's so difficult, you have to keep your hope and believe that things will eventually work themselves out. You are absolutely right to keep trying - both IVF and 'the natural way'. One day it will happen, it has to. I wish you all the luck in the future that you deserve -     that your BFP is around the corner. 
Lots of love x


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## peaches123

My test day was today didn't test this morning was goin to leave it untill tomorrow when my period started I knew it was all over tested about an hour ago and got a bfn feelin very sad and confused ............ Is it best to swap clinics after failed attempt !? How has people coped and does most 1st cycles end in failure


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## denny1

Hi peaches. Please dont give up. I know how upsetting it is when you get that horrible news. I had 1failed ivf cycle and 1 fet cycle but two weeks ago got a bfp with 2nd fet. It does work so just try to focus on the next step. Cant advise you on clinic changes but if you feel the need to change talk to your clinic. Please dont give up and try to be strong. Wishing you all the best for the future. Xxxxxxxx


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## raachel29

I had my cycle with Care (I'm a donor) and started bleeding exactly a week after egg transfer. I was told by so many different nurses, doctors that it was too soon to be a period etc. It wasn't of course, which is why I'm here lol. I've been told this morning that I can stop my pessaries, even though my OTD isn't until Friday. I have a review appointment but it isn't until August and I really don't know how to get from now til then  It's all running around my head. Wondering if my drugs dose wasn't right, wondering if I did something to cause it etc. I'm hopefully going to be starting a fresh cycle in September, and going to blast if possible. I wanted to this time but we didn't have enough money saved to allow it, and I have non in the freezer xx


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## Marmitelover

Hey Peaches, I got BFN yesterday and it is so heartbreaking, I was back to work today and didn't think I would cope very well, but surprisingly it did take my mind off things a little.  

Its really up to you whether you decide to stay with the same clinic, I will be staying with mine as the staff are all lovely and supportive and I don't believe it was there fault it wasn't a success it was just one of those things. 

I have had ICSI previously and had FET recently and I only had 1 embryo to freeze. So I have to back through ICSI again, not looking forward to that as I found the egg retrieval uncomfortable for a good few days after and the meds really played havoc with my emotions but fingers crossed it will be a success.  I have spoken with the clinic and they have given me an appointment to go in for a consultation but not until the end of August due to staff holidays but I suppose it gives my body a chance to get back to normal and plus get some money together because it aint cheap!!

I hope you decide to try again Peaches and try not to get dis-heartened its a difficult time but these things are sent to try us - so I have been told


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## LV.

Hi Raachel,


Big hugs for you   . Could the bleeding have been implantation bleeding? It's about the right time. I'd be inclined to continue the meds just in case and test on OTD all the same.


Lots of luck
xxx


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## babyjoy

sorry to hear about ur bfn   i went throught the same thing six weekes ago af arrived 8 days after et, its so dishearteneing and your left borken but it does get easier day by day and u will find that u start to pick urself up and realise ok it didnt work this time but that dont mean its not gonna work next time


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## Girlyhalfwit

I have just written you a lenghty reply and now I've just lost it....BUM!
I just wanted to say, I know how you feel, as I was there a couple of weeks ago.  It's awful that you have to wait so long for your review ( I only had to wait 2 weeks), maybe they could ring you if there is a cancellation?  However, they won't really tell you anything that you don't already know.  As a lot of the time, they don't have an explaination and you have to be told that you've just been unlucky.  I had all these questions going round my head...did I do something?....why didn't it work when the cycle was so perfect?.....and if it didn't work this time, then why would it work next time?  I've had an incredibly busy couple of weeks and that has been a big help with me getting over it all.  Treat yourself, as I have done and the time will pass quickly until your next cycle....that's if this cycle has failed - wait until your OTD before stopping your pessaries and make sure you do your test - don't jump the gun yet!


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## raachel29

Thanks everyone  I called Care back to swap my appointment as I'd heard fantastic things about one of the consultants....and they got me in on 12th July with him! Hopefully I'll get an idea of whether my bleed was normal, and if it can be prevented next time....and a start date for my next attempt! I'm started to feel a bit better. To begin with it felt like I'd not even had a chance with my period coming so soon, but theres nothing I can do about it now lol. I'll get my BFP one day  xx


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## Geminimonkey

Just had first ivf otd 13th July but heavy red bleeding and clots and lots of pain! 

Upset and confused. This was our first and only free go on NHS

Please join me in creating a thread so we can help each other through this horrible situation

I am part of other threads but now it's all over- don't really feel I belong there. 

They have told us will get a follow up in 6 weeks and may have to do icsi but costs £7000 goodness knows how we are going to pay for it!! 

How long is it normal to bleed for?? 

Please let me know if your in the same situation as feel very alone

Xxxx


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## Danii

Hi there, 

I couldn't just read and run. Am not in quite the same situation as I am doing IUI not IVF, but I started bleeding this morning, 5 days before my OTD and am absolutely devastated, heartbroken and feeling very alone in the world.  DH is being amazing but my head is a mess today. One moment I'm completely detatched and feel like I am coping as best I can another second I want to cry.  Worst still am stuck at work where noone knows what's going on with us and am having to put on a happy face so people don't suspect anything.

So I totally understand how you feel.  Emotionally I don't think I've ever been through anything worse.  I keep telling myself this is not the end of the world or even the end of the road, but today, well it just feels that way.

Gemini, I really hope you feel stronger soon and feel free to rant as much as you want.  You are not alone. 

Take care and    

Dani xxx


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## Gklee

Hi there, I too have just had my first cycle of icsi fail! Our otd was last Tues and although i hadn't started bleeding we got a bfn, We r absolutely devastated! We had a really good cycle and had 10 eggs fertilise and had a grade 1 blast put back in and still it did not work. My dp feels totally cheated in a way as we done absolutely everything to make it work, Acupuncture for months (cost a fortune that we don't have), had no alcohol, caffeine or anything bad and ate all the foods that we were recommended etc. Who knows why it didn't work, i suppose it was just not meant to b as hard as that is to except. To make it worse on the otd i called the clinic to tell them and after they asked me a number of questions, Have u started to bleed yet - i hadn't, was i still bloated - i was, did i feel like i was going to come on - i did a bit, i was then told to not get my hopes up but to test again the nxt morning! meaning re living it all again the nxt day!!! After i stopped the cyclogest pessaries i then came on Thurs which just further confirmed that it was all over, I found that so hard as i was aware that i was shedding our little embryo away, As strange as it is i had already really bonded with it as saw it on the screen at et and even have a picture - i am sure u can all understand this feeling! All i can say is that as each day comes and goes i am starting to feel a little bit stronger and today i have so far managed not to cry for the first day since we got our bfn so hopfully a good sign. It is good that we all have each other on ff as unless u have been through this experience u can never understand how hard it truly is. Big hugs to u all x x


----------



## josjourney

Hi there  ,
I had my first ivf cycle which sadly ended with a BFN on 7th july. Everything went so well good eggs, lovely 2 on board no bleed through 2ww i just dont understand...We too are devastated and feel so alone at times it is so cruel and so hard.We was self funding as DP has children from previous relationship so we too will have to save hard again to do another cycle, but at this time i cant think that far ahead. My gp signed me off work for 2 weeks as my job is quite stressful and i cant cope with seeing too many people at the moment. I just want to be in a bubble where i cant see people doing normal things as i dont want to act normal. But it will get easier as the days go i promise, im still not there yet but i know im better then i was last thursday i think that was the worst day of my life i just felt id lost everything and was so empty and lost, my heart ached so much it hurt. I stopped the pessaries and bleed saturday been so awful (sorry TMI) heavy bleed, clots and awful pain it was dreadful last night i havnt been able to face eating as pain been so bad, but this morning it has settled and pain alot less today. Im going to ring the hospital today to arrange my follow up appt and try and make sense of what went wrong. This site is very good and it is such support to know we are not alone and chat to people who really understand what we are going through. Big hugs and love to all xxxxxx


----------



## miffy80

Hi Geminimonkey  
Sorry to see your post   I know it's very hard, espcecially if you're now facing having to pay for treatment.  I had my negative about a month ago and I have my follow up today.  I had a bit of an unusual bleed - lasted a bit longer than normal but was quite light (I had lots of drugs trying to hold womb lining there though so I think that's why it was weird).
Take some time out for yourself if you can.  I know it's ridiculous to say 'try and take your mind off it' because I certainly think about daily   but at least try to do some things you enjoy or things you'd put off because of your treatment.
Best wishes x
Miffy


----------



## doddyclaire

Hi ladies, mind if I join??

This morning just got our 2nd BFN, feel like i've done something wrong and that it must be my fault.  Have been good and booked in our follow up but thats not for another 6 weeks, seems a lifetime away, and in between then, I just don't know how to function normally.  I can't face going back to work, but I can't face sitting round the house either with the blank walls that should have baby pics on.  I want to have some sort of time passing pill so that I can start on our 3rd and final attempt, no scratch that, I don;t want to start again, I just wanted this one to work.......I don;t know what to do


----------



## MandyPandy

Oh DC I'm so, so sorry to hear that.   

I know what you mean about a 'time passing pill'.  It does get better.   I'm working towards the third attempt myself. I'm now spending the time doing investigative tests (immunes) and losing the weight I've piled on due to my two negative cycles this year (obviously after having spent some time being quite naughty food and drink wise!   ).  

I hope that your pain will pass quickly and you'll be able to move on soon.


----------



## LillyR

Doddyclaire, so sorry to see your post, and sending you lots of     . Nothing anyone says will make you feel better right now (I do sometimes wish there was a magic phrase that could solve all our sadness), and I know how painful it is. So these little   will have to do. But please believe that it's in now way 'your fault', there is nothing you did wrong, it's just terribly bad luck. You're not alone in this, and I can really relate to your feelings of not knowing what to do or how to go on. But it really does get a little better as time goes on. You will feel positive again, and you WILL get your dreams come true in the future. It's such a tough journey, and I honestly think that we are all bloody strong women here to get through it! So give yourself a lot of slack, be kind to yourself, try to surround yourself with positive friends and family, book a few nice little treats - you deserve it (for me, a good massage or spa always makes me feel a bit pampered), and most importantly, allow yourself to feel rubbish for a while, it's totally normal and understandable. I really wish you all the luck in the world with your next cycle.   .  Lots of love xx


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## LINDY15

Hi Doddy Claire,
so sorry to hear your news and know exactly how you feel. 
I think if you're like me that if you can't do anything about getting pregnant then you feel a bit useless.
I have been scouring the websites looking for an alternative place to go for our 3rd cycle and that weirdly made me feel better. plus we are getting various tests done and actually making the appointments also gives me a pep in my step.. it's a slow process and I can't say I'm the most patient of people either  
but the days get better and thankfully its the summertime so it's a bit easier to put a smile on your face.
I feel helping someone else in any way and diverting your thoughts away from yourself is always a good thing to do as well. 
hope things are getting easier for you...
take are      
Lindy


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## doddyclaire

Thanks girls, i'm gonna look into immune testing etc, I need something to get my teeth into!!

xx


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## Geminimonkey

First and only free NHS ivf failed- very sad especially telling friends and family and feel let everyone down and my DH

Thankfully the bleeding and clots are calming down but emotionally it's still hard

I have a follow up in 2 weeks and now been told we had a low fertilisation rate-11 eggs 3 made it to the end! They are now suggesting ICSI - but a heartbreaking Cost of £7000! 

Anyone who can help with info on ICSI would appreciate your comments. Especially as there is no male factor. 

I have to wait 3 periods and could defiantly do with a time passing pill!!!

I am trying to build up strength for our second go and just booked to see a reflexologist who specialises in fertility and endometriosis- even if it helps me get my head stronger and helps me to relax. 

Hope to be on some lucky cycle buddy thread with some of you soon. 

I feel your pain but we are such brave ladies- not sure I believe in this orange fertility thing- I had orange flowers all round my house and did no good- lol

Take care xxxxxxxx pray for all to achieve BFP xxxxx


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## doddyclaire

Gemini - I can't get in for my follow up til near end August!!!  Two weeks will be a breeze.
I've just made appt with GP to see if they can do any of the immune tests for me.....doubt it but worth a punt 

xx


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## Han72

Hi all

Geminimonkey I have merged your 2 threads with the existing negative cycle chat thread, hope you don't mind but hopefully you can see that you're not alone 

Love and  to all

xxx


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## Poppycat1

Hi girls

I'm a relative newbie to the site.  However I've often read the discussions.  I'm so sorry to hear about everyone's negative result.  I too had a negative IVF result on 14/07 and am absolutely heartbroken.  Consultant had told us that he felt really positive for us at ET stage as we had 5 top grade embryos (1 was put back) the rest have been frozen.  I was so hopeful and now just feel devastated.

I took time off work - I'm a teacher so feel incredibly guilty about that, and followed all of the advice I was given - and now I have to go back to school having achieved nothing.  I'm not sure where to go from here.  I have my follow up on 01/08 and not sure what to ask - has anyone any advice.  I have pcos and that is our only stumbling block.

xxx


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## Han72

Hi and  to all

Poppycat, there's a list of questions to ask at a follow-up here:

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=49609.0

xxx


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## beans33

Hi, Can I join? I've just had a BFN on my 2nd fresh cycle of ICSI, I have a son from tx 2 years ago and hoped i would be lucky like last time.  I lost all my frozen as they didn't thaw and then these 2 cycles I had blastocysts that just didn't implant.  I have been given Clexane, Steroids and aspirin but to no avail.  I honestly thought as I felt different this time that it had worked! Han thank you for those follow up questions I think I will be needing those this time as last time I thought it hadn't worked because I only had 1 cyclogest a day.  Does 2 cyclogest cause AF to be late? I still haven't started yet and stopped last night as there was questions about my test being accurate due to it only being 14 days after EC. Anyway Hi to everyone! x


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## doddyclaire

Hi Beans

Sorry to read of your neg tx...there's nothing that makes any of it feel better except time is there....
Sorry I can't help re cylogest, as i've never been on it.

So, how is everyone else holding up?

I'm still feeling crap, came back to work yesterday, and wondering why...everyone is so supportive and lovely and being kind but I just feel neg and arsey.  Still, level 1 immunes being tested next week, so thats omething I guess.....

xx


----------



## Poppycat1

Hi Beans

I was on 2 cyclogest a day during 2ww.  I started to bleed 15 days after ET. I hope this helps.

Doddyclaire

I feel rubbish too - somethimes its worse when everyone is so nice!  I am back at work tomorrow as I have had a bit extra time off as I had really bad abdominal pains since BFN, but not looking forward to the questions from colleagues and kids.  How did you approach immune testing - is this something that can be done on NHS?  I have just had one negative IVF cycle but because of age and quality of embryo I'm wondering if I could have something else the matter.

Hope everyone else is doing ok.  Love and Hugs


----------



## doddyclaire

Hi Poppycat

I just went to my GP and asked for them to be done!!  Kind of steam-rollered him a bit I think!  I told him as it was NHS money paying for my TX then surely they would want to make sure it wasn't a waste..

Good luck with going back to work tomorrow, I cried buckets here yesterday 

xxx


----------



## Poppycat1

Thanks Doddyclaire I'm keeping my fingers crossed that you get the all clear. I have my follow up appointment with consultant on 1st Aug so plan to ask then, but if I'm not happy I'm going to see my GP.  What tests have you asked for?  Sorry I'm new at this and am finding all of the information a bit overwhelming.

Take care x


----------



## SoneaSze

Hi Ladies,

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. This process is insanity. Sadly I got a BFN this morning. I feel so disappointed. We get all the ingredients, we follow the instructions correctly to make great cake mix and we put it in the oven to bake and wait, but when the timer's up we open the oven and there is no cake! How can this be? What did we do wrong?

The only thing I learnt from this cycle is all from these ff forums. You see women on same treatment, same drugs, same collection, same fertilisation and transfer, same symptoms yet different outcomes. It doesn't make any sense to me. 

Thanks for the questions to ask at the follow up consultation. It will be very useful. Now I've got to try to put myself back together, after hiding some more and crying.


----------



## doddyclaire

Sonease - so sorry to read your news this morning    Its never easy, and even worse when there is no "resoning" behind it.  

Poppycat - Sorry, I forgot to reply to you a couple of days back   - I got my list off one of the pages on here, under Immunes, there's a whole section just for that, but basically my GP will be doing:
FBC, LFT, U&E, Immuglobin panel, Auto-immune antibodies, Thyroid functions, thrombophilia and anti-cardiolipin anti-bodies!!  That lot's on Monday and we'll take it from there.  I also just got a book called Is your body baby friendly?  or something like that, sorry, its not to hand.  But it details very clearly the links between immune issues and infertility/failed IVF cycles, lots of pointers, for me I've had endometriosis from a young age and that apparently is an indicator of immune issues.

Best of luck if you go for it chick, let me know 

xxx


----------



## SoneaSze

Is my body baby friendly, Dr Beer. I read that too, but my clinic said that wasn't enough evidence to support it. It has worked for some ladies. Def something worth looking into


----------



## beans33

Soneasze so sorry and I completely agree! The process baffles me. I have a child on a 2 day transfer and then I can't seem to do it again with blastocysts! I can only say that I feel it's the luck of the draw because we all do so much like you say to help the process work xx don't give up xx


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## mazza10

Hi All,

Well i dont have a confirmed negative cycle but I've been bleeding since Friday, but I tested + on my OTD (24th July).  I passed a couple of clots so think I have lost it....anything like this happen to anyone else? xxx


----------



## SoneaSze

Mazza, please go to the doctor. I hope it's just a little bleed and that everything is still growing in there for you.


----------



## mazza10

Thanks SoneaSze, I had to re-test this morning and it was negative so definately over for me


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## doddyclaire

Mazza - So sorry hun


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## mazza10

Thank you Ladies xxx

I am taking comfort in the fact that it actually worked, I did get pregnant after 4 years TTC.  Unfortunately I started bleeding 2 days before OTD.  I shall be asking the clinic why this happened and hopefully will change my progeserone course as I understand it, if you're taking this you should not bleed at all until after you stop taking them.

Hope you all have the strength to carry on with another cycle xxxxxxx


----------



## SoneaSze

Mazza, the same happened to me. I was BFP for 2 weeks. It was a chemical pregnancy. I had never seen a BFP before either. I am very gutted for you. take care and get strong again.


----------



## Madasatruck

Mazza 

Got a -ve this morning following my 1st ICSI IVF, I know how awful I am feeling so my heart goes out to you to have had a +ve only for it to be taken away again.      This is a cruel process.


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## mazza10

Madasatruck, so sorry about you -ve   .

I am feeling alot better, onwards and upwards as they say.  Very eager to start my next cycle and   that will be my last cycle.  This proces is draining, emotionally and financially....xxxx


----------



## Madasatruck

Thanks. Husband works away from home so feeling a bit like I am in this alone today so your reply helped. Glad you are already thinking of the next attempt, I find myself thinking that way too, coping mechanism maybe? At least when you are in the cycle you feel that you are taking control and doing all you can to get that BFP! We are self funded too so not sure when we can afford to try again, or how soon the clinic will let us. Stay strong...and lets both focus on the next one. xx


----------



## SoneaSze

Good Luck with your next treatment cycle, Mazza and Madasatruck. It took me a while to recover from my last BFN too, but after hiding for a bit I feel a little bit stronger. I can only look at the next treatment too. I think I have the strength for one more try. I hope you guys do too.


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## mazza10

SoneaSze & Madasatruck, it's nice to know that i wont be alone next time i do my cycle.  Thank you lovely ladies.

I only came across this site after I had mt ET.  

I have 4 sisters so a big family and alot of friends, but no-one knows what i've gone through.  And i find myself repeating myself over and over again.  I also get alot of questions and sometimes to be honest i really dont want to talk about it.

Madasatruck, sorry you were alone when you had to do your test...and deal with the emotions alone aswell.

Focus ladies on the next one, and we'll help eachother through the gruelling 6 weeks....


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## N_Torray

sorry ladys if i jump in but hope i can join .... 

a few of urs must have a bit experiance aboot ivf ... iam right now in my 2ww, on day 6 i started bleeding and it hold on now untill today for 5 days ....( if i would count by my normal cycle i was one day earlie in periot)  My bleeding no seems like it will go away ... iam devestayted as i think i lost it and it didnt work for us ... it was my first ivf cycle and i had no idea how hard, stressfull, heardbraking it will be ... 
no helping my clinic telling me i have to wait untill testing day on thu and see if iam BFN ... But i would like to knw why mybleedig hols on for that long  
my head is soo ****ed up, iam sad sad sad sad and sad .. 

has anyone of urs had any bleeding like mine ?? 

thanks for oll nikki xx


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## doddyclaire

Nikki - sorry hunny, its not easy this game is it..... on both my cycles, I bled 5 days before test date (when my period would naturally have been due) and both times got BFN.  BUT...having said that, I do know of ladies who have bled yet managed to get a pos result on test date, so you do have to hang onto all hope right up to the end.
Sending you big ole    and I hope you get a good result on Thursday

xx


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## mazza10

N_Torray, I'm with you on the HH page aswell!

Well I started bleeding 2 days before OTD,  but I still got a BFP.  My bleeding lasted for 5 days, i didnt think it would ever stop as my normal cycle only lasts about 3 days.  I knew it was over for me when i started to pass clots (sorry it's TMI).  

I was sad, upset, frustrated but I soon picked myself up and started to look forward.

I dont know how anyone else's cycle went but mine was fine.  Even after EC I was in no pain at all.  It wasnt as bad as i originally thought and am looking forward to the next cycle.  I will certainly be doing all I can to give my little embies the best chance to stick.

I went back to work 2 days after ET, but this time I will be taking the whole 2 weeks off if my work is ok with it.

I did find out today though that my manager is 8 weeks pregnant.  I am pleased for her as she had an eptopic in January.  But I'm starting to feel everyone is getting pregnant except me.

Also when do you stop?  When do you decide enough is enough?


----------



## N_Torray

Thanks for u lovley massages  

Well i done a test today is well and it was pure red negativ   . 
sadley i belive in it didnt work for this time .. i didnt had a easy goin eather way loads of stress and **** aboot cose husband based in german (he in Arm forces)  .. drivng  10hrs after et wasnt probebly a guid thing eather, sleepin in a ****ty bed ( Hospital Hotel Visitors Rooms)  after egg colection for over 2 weeks dnt help much eather.  I will defo go n see my gp the nxt few weeks to find oot if we can have the nxt trys near by his mums house up in scotland. much more easyer, constanly someone there to look after me, a lot of stress less and no soo much **** aboot driving ... so i could jst conccentrate my self on my wee nxt treatment .. 
hope we can manage something  ..    

Mazza yea i knw i was jst gona say we are together in HH  how happy have u been with the care and treatment at hh ?? 

well my cycle was realy oouch after ec i feeled like a lot better ( like someone took a football oot my belly ) but nxt day it started with my belly cramps, pain pain pain and pain ...  oll the way till now  
I feeled pritty much great on my jags time Busselin no problems at oll start of gonal f no problems untill the last few days of my gonal F they wer killing me.... 

well we jst have to try gettin my self back to normal, gie my body a bit rest to calm down and heal his self and hopfully things gona look normal really soon .. 

nikki xx


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## mazza10

Madasatruck, how are you?  Havnt seen you on here in a while.

Nikki, i think it is best that you go nearer to your mum's.  Like you said a little TLC afterwards would be welcome!  And i dont know how you managed that 10 hour drive, after my ET i ate then went straight to bed.

All in all, my experience has been fine.  Can't really complain.  I must admit the lady I had in with me at my ET was lovely, she held my hand while my DH held the other. And she explained everything that was going to happen and what I was seeing on the scanner.

The consultants on the other hand are a bit like being on a conveyor belt.  My 1st appt with Dr H was crap, as my BMI at the time was 31.7 he couldnt put me forward for IVF, so i lost the weight and then saw DR Gkekas, but he wanted me to have another scan to make sure my tubes were ok.

Then finally i saw Anna Carby, well what a different kettle of fish!  She was so lovely.  She said she didnt know why i had to re-scan as the HSG scan i had was more than accurate.  She booked me a co-ord appt straight away.  

So now waiting for a letter for a review appt.  Well it's been almost 3 weeks and have not heard anything.  They said it would take about 4 weeks, as I am an NHS patient.

How is everyone else on here?


----------



## N_Torray

yea i was in the same case as u ... jst feeled a bit lost in teh clinic woud have loved a person i could talk to aboot everythink .... Nva got asked aboot anyone how i was doin i pretty much feeled like a number .. seen everytime i went there a new doc who scanned me .. a new nurse ect .. i no feeled like there was somone who was specialy dealing with me who i could talk to aboot my question ... They oll have been Friendley but i would of loved if they would have talked to me more and actually telling me wit they wer doin .. Nae one hold my hand at egg colection she old said i gie u that stoff now wat makes u sleepy and thats aboot it .. maibe i should have asked more to get more answers .... so wits happening after u told em u Negativ test resould per email ?? are they gona fone me ?? do u knw how quick u can do an new cycle ? 
sorry for oll of these questions LOOOL .. 

carby lassie was quid nice to me is well but only seen her one time and thats aboot it ..  

thanks for u txt hen xxxx


----------



## mazza10

Nikki, after you send them the email confirming your result you just get an automated email back saying when they will contact you by letter.  Unfortunately for NHS patients, you can expect a letter with 4 weeks.  

There are no phonecalls etc....I did call them and say i had a negative result and the nurse i spoke to said i would receive a letter in 7-8 weeks!!!!!!!  I couldnt believe it.  If i havnt heard anything by the end of the month I'll call them or contact my named nurse.

I guess if i was paying it would be an appt straight away.

Has your OTD passed?  Did you email them?


----------



## Madasatruck

Mazza, been on and off a bit since BFN, been studying threads re Fibroids which is my latest concern! They found one in last scan just as I was about to start cycle but we opted to carry on anyway, now I think it might be better to get it removed before we try again. Not had follow up yet either (cycle ended 31st July, follow up 20th Sept!!!) and we are self funding so not much better off than you. 

So I need to wait 7 wks to get the follow up appointment to discuss if I need a fibroid op, then go on waiting list for op, then recovery of 3 -6 months!!! Just another complication I didn't need at 41...I though having finally started IVF we were through the worst bit!I am wasting time waiting for follow up when I could be on waiting list  

I hope you get you appointment date soon, you need a rest before your mind and body can go through this again so try and switch off for a bit from the stress of this all until it's time to get back on the roller coaster!! It's hard to move on when you don't know what went wrong though. Keep me posted about your date for follow up, and how it goes. xx


----------



## N_Torray

mazza10 iam testing tomorrow so i will mail em tomorrow  
THanks for lettin me knw aboot this oll .. I hope u will hear of em soon  are u on ********


----------



## mazza10

Madasatruck, sorry to hear about your fibroid.  Just another complication you can do without and like you said at your age.  Do they think it is affecting your treatment?  I suppose if it is it's best to sort it out.

Hopefully I'll get a letter in the next 2 weeks will keep you all posted.  Maybe this is their way of getting our cycles back to normal before starting again.  

Speaking of which, my period is due in the next couple of days and I have had no cramps etc...I am like clockwork normally.  Can anyone shed some light?  Can it be delayed after treatment?

Nikki, good luck 2moro.  You never know!   and yes I am on **.  Name: Marian Agno.  If you cant find me my settings might be not searchable.  Let me know your name and I will add you.


----------



## mazza10

Nikki, you were testing today.  How did it go? x


----------



## N_Torray

^

Testingday was this morning ! BFN ........


----------



## mazza10

Nikki, so sorry   

Did you email HH straight away?


----------



## doddyclaire

Nikki - sorry for your result  xx


----------



## N_Torray

naw i jst emailed em .. feellike someone hit me with a bus ... wasnt realy caring to tell em staright away .. 
my mother in law jst told me i didnt had my hopes up for it anyways after i started bleeding so why iam even more upset ?? 
she said well by by beein a gran this time .. iam telling yours this feels great to hear summit like this .. could kill !!!


----------



## mazza10

Oh Niki, what a horrible thing for your mother-in-law to say....  

Well thankfully i have not had any comments like that, but my husband and I have decided we are not going to tell anyone when we start the next cycle.  It's just heartbreaking to tell people its a BFN or you miscarried.  We are just going to tell them we are taking a break....

How are you feeling?


----------



## Aurora13

Hi everyone,
Wondered if I could join you on this post as it was my test day today after 1st go at ivf and I got a BFN   Even though I was half expecting it not to work as you can never know what's happening, it has still come as a major disappointment and is stirring up all sorts of emotions in me. As I'm sure lots of you have been through this more than once I think you must be so strong as I can't believe how tough the whole process has been, mainly the 2ww though   Seems like the 17th has been an unlucky day for all OTD testers as all the testers on the August 2ww post have had BFN's too   Will try and dust myself off for another go soon if poss, but may take a while to get the strength


----------



## mazza10

Welcome Aurora, but sorry about the BFN.  We all know how you are feeling....

Although I was lucky (in my opinion anyway) to get a BFP, but started bleeding and lost it.  But I was happy it worked as in the 4 years of TTC I have never even come close.

Give yourself time to take it all in.  I'm sure you'll have the strength to go for another cycle x


----------



## mazza10

Finally got my review appt on the 15th Sept....bring on  round 2!!!!


----------



## N_Torray

Hello Ladys, sorry for no been back yet after my BFN but my world was to bussy .. 

mazza iam glad u have heard frm hh  Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay  xx well plesed for u  xxx 

me n chris started to deal with my BFN and will gie ma self time before i go back for round 2 .. 
iam havin a big fat holiday xmas new year to new york now and new year i will get my mind back on ivf  
how is everyone else doin ?? 
aboot my mother in law chris spoke tae him mum n told her she can keep comments like that to her self in future if she wants to get told summat .. she answered i was upset and wasnt thinking .. Chris jst told her how do u think did nikki feel , to hear such a **** hink, while been upset cose it didnt work and u tell her that **** .. he was well angry with her .. Defo keep everythink secret now at the 2nd try . no do it agen .. 

Hope everyone else is doin well ladys ..  muuaw nikki xx


----------



## mazza10

Hey Niki, glad to know you're doing better.  

And what a fab holiday!  Always wanted to go to NY!!!!!  Niki add me on ** - Marian Agno

Well we said we would go for another cycle this year, and if it's a BFN then we'll have a break and go on a long holiday and start again....

Aurora how are you?


----------



## N_Torray

Mazzan: I cant seam to find u  
U welcome trying to add me  Nicole Torrance ... Got a picture of my Poochey in it ..  
Yea we saved up for a long long time for this n we desided the time will be jst right for us  
LOokin forwart to it


----------



## mazza10

Nikki, cant find you either.  I have changed my settings, so you should be able to search for me now x


----------



## N_Torray

hey hen .. wits u picture like ?? are u and u husband in it ??


----------



## mazza10

Yes thats it...just accepted you!  What a cute dog! x


----------



## ANGELA29A

seems they have merged, thread, so i'll need to catch up on everyone, heelo to all.x
hello to doddyclaire, katreekingsbury, kt cuddles, kar t, vivkytick, samueljackson and  all former snowdrops.xx


----------



## mazza10

Hi Angela,

Sorry about your recent BFN....


----------



## Vickytick

Hi Ladies seems we have been merged into one so will take some catching up but probably a good idea rather than have separate threads.

Had my FU today after first failed cycle. Not great news just told they will up my dose to max 450 next time and change to menapour (on Gonal F this time) to try to get more eggs as I need to get to 5 days. Only had 4 this time with 2 fertilised so had day 2 transfer - not great at 20% chance of pg but day 5 goes up to 60%. The words DE were muted which I think after the next go if nothing changes that might be a real consideration for me but it means I might lose my funding so that will be another hurdle. This all comes to test us doesn't it.

Sorry to hear about the ladies who have got BFN's   , only having had one myself I admire the ladies that keep going and I would like to think it gets easier but I doubt very much that it does. I think we have to truly believe that one day we will get our dream.. Take Care

V
x


----------



## mazza10

Hi Vickytick,

Sorry about your BFN...I have only had 1 cycle so far and did get a BFP, but it was an early loss.

Why do you have to wait 6 months to start again?


----------



## doddyclaire

Hi Vicky!

Well, I guess they have to try the higher doses, on my 2nd round my dose of Gonal f was increased so I went from one egg to 4!  Still not the great result I had hoped for but you keep on trying 

Hi Angela - thanks for your text earlier, sorry I seem to be zoning in and out again!!  Will message you when I get home for your dates 

AFM - my f/u tomorrow afternoon, we have a big ole list of questions to throw at em!!

xx


----------



## Vickytick

Doddyclaire - good luck with the FU make sure you get all the questions out. I thought of so many on the way home..

Mazza - My pct (nhs funding) stipulates you have to wait 6 months between fresh cycles. Its not too bad because they take it from the start of the last one so I've actually only got 4 months to go. I'm grateful that I've got funding - which we had to fight for - but when my AMH is low I worry that it'll be even lower the longer we leave it.


----------



## mazza10

Oh ok.  Well my PCT only offer 1 free cycle which we have now used so we'll be paying for the next one.

My review appt is on the 15th Sept, so will be asking lots of questions.  

I only got 6 eggs, but when i was recovering the lady next to me had 19!!!!!  I honestly thought my numbers were really crap, but who knows how many fertilised.  Luckily i had 5 out of 6.  

I'm hoping that they will increase my dose the next time so i can get more eggs and hopefully freeze as none of the 4 left were viable...


----------



## Samuel Jackson

Hi guys

Im another one from the snowdrop negative thread, hi to everyone from there and on this thread too x

Will try and catch up with whats happening with everyone soon  

Im presently on a 2 ww so bit nervous/scared etc etc etc.....

Love to all 

Sam xx

ps doddy good luck for tomorrow xx


----------



## ANGELA29A

thanks Mazza, we are now nearly at egg collection stage for our 3rd cycle. x
Sam, hows the 2ww going??
Vivkytick, they upped my dose to 450 this time, will find out wednesday if its made a difference, you have to 5 or more fertilised to go to blast, not just 5 eggs, all very confusing.
hello to doddyclaire, good luck with follow up tomorrow.x


----------



## Vickytick

*Angela29a* - Its amazing how they all tell you different things isn't it. The consultant at H&E told me yesterday that as long as I get 3 fertilised we will try to go to blast as that's really the best option for a BFP. I doubt I would get to 5 fertilised as I would need to get at lot of eggs with a chance of half fertilising and that is not going to happen at my age with my amh. I am feeling slightly more positive after doing some research on the different drug - nothing ventured nothing gained. I'm also getting immune testing done privately in the interim so that might throw up some answers for me.

*Sam* - hope the 2ww is not proving too difficult for you.

*Mazza* - There was a lady on one of the threads that got about 13 (can't remember the exact number) but none of them fertilised so the old adage quality over quantity still rules I suppose. I would've just liked to have got more than 4 out of 7 follies.

Good luck to everyone.
V
x


----------



## ANGELA29A

vivkytick, check with your hospital regarding rules to go to blast, think it also depends on the qualilty of the eggs, im really stressing as we really need to get to blast this time, as age isnt on my side.x


----------



## Aurora13

Hi everyone, not been on FF as much as usual as finding things a bit difficult at the moment to deal with. I know its natural to feel as I do especially as I have PTSD so I'm just trying to ride it out and aiming for my review appointment on the 8th September to see where we go from here. Worrying about the fact that I have low amh and only got three follicles and 2 eggs this round and that was on 350 menopur so don't know if the clinic will feel it's worth me having another go. I will be angry and disappointed if they don't though as even with only one egg it fertilised to the best possible standard so surely I had a really good chance of a BFP even though that didn't happen   Will have to pay for the next round anyway so surely if its our money we can decide what to spend it on ?!   Has anyone else had a low response like me, but been given the go ahead to try again and again?


----------



## Vickytick

Aurora13 - I was on 375 Gonal F last time and only got 4 eggs of which 2 fertilised one of which was a grade A like you. They've said we will go again but will up to max dosage to try to get more eggs. I think they only stop when there really is no hope as one grade A is still good and a good chance of it working. I suppose the alternative is DE which they have skirted around for me but they want to try again increasing the dosage before that. At least there is still room for you to increase the dosage so all is not lost yet - I know it just feels like it at the moment.   

xx


----------



## mazza10

Aurora, dont know what a low response is, but on my 1st IVF they collected 6 and 5 fertilised.  To me I thought that was really low, as women in the other beds were getting 19 and 23 eggs...I was quite down when I heard this, but as they say it's quality not quantity....

And i dont know if i should be saying this, but if you're paying then they wont  tell you to give up.


----------



## ANGELA29A

aurora, we have low AMH, didnt find out til after 1 st cycle. 
1st tx we had 3 eggs, 1 fertiliesd, BFN
2nd tx 5 eggs, 3 fertilised , 1 frozen BFN
we are on 3rd cycle, foliie scan tomorow, this time we are 450 gonal f from the start, and as mazza has said its quality not quanity, i remember 1st time, was disappointed with my number of eggs, and knew ladies having EC at same time who had between 15 to 30 eggs collected, and they ended up with just 1 like me.xx


----------



## Aurora13

Hi ladies, thanks for your support, it's good to know that there are others who are still in the system who seem to respond to the treatment in the same way as me. I know that DE is an option as initially I was told that would be my only hope of becoming pregnant, but my consultant changed his mind and offered me the option of IVF to begin with to see how I would respond. I'm hoping that because I got as far as ET that this puts things in a good light and it's good to know that there is room to increase my dosage. Trying to think 

*Angela* Hope your follie scan went ok


----------



## ANGELA29A

just an update ladies

... After doctor nearly giving me heart failure when Iwent in, telling me my bloods, that were ok, on Monday, weren't OK, they were low ,infact the worst out of the 3 cycles, they were 445 I believe, they would expect them to be 800-1200, he was not very optimistic. He sais normally we up the gonal f, but as we are on highest dose, we have no where to go. At this point, I so wished I hadn't gone on my own, my heart was in my boots. He then said hop on the bed, and we'll take a look, he kept looking for ages at my womb lining, sating iy was 11.6?? I think, and how perfect it was!!! he then looked at left ovary to find 4 follies!!! then right ovary and found 5!!!!, This is the most we have ever had, they are ranging from 9mm to 14mm. Slight relief, but not out iof the woods, as he doesnt want the 3 biggest to get too big, and wants the smallest to catch up!! He said EC looking Tuesday/Wednesday, and it might now be at Bourne rather than JPH(our local hospital). so still in limbo til Friday. 

Dont know if I should use the heat on tummy tonight or not

love and    to all.xx


----------



## Vickytick

*Aurora13* - there is an awful lot of us with low amh lurking on these boards so don't give up hope yet. Easier said than done I know but we have to remain positive whilst there is a small chance - nature works in mysterious ways sometimes.

*ANGELA29A* - does the heat on the tummy help the follicles ? I've heard other women talk about it but wasn't sure. I would trust your own instinct if it feels right do it if you think you would regret it then don't - sorry probably not the answer you were hoping for. Good news on the follies though perhaps it will be third time lucky fingers crossed x

Hi to everyone else hope you are all okay.
v
x


----------



## ANGELA29A

Yes vivkytick heat is supposed to help follies grow.x


----------



## Samuel Jackson

Hi everyone

Angela hope everyone goes to plan and you have ec next week, fingers crossed for you  

Thanks for my messages asking how im getting on, well i was ok up until last night when i went to the loo and sure i could see a slight (tinyest slight) bit of brown on the tissue which panicked me a bit but nothing today until just when same happened, i sooo hope its not start of af    OTD is Saturday which we are sticking to but just want to know now if you know what i mean, silly but weve had lots of bad luck this last year so if that keeps going it wont be good!!

Anyway enough about me, hope all you guys are doing ok?

Think i might just pop out for a little walk while its still dry as think its going to chuck it down x

Love to all 

Sam xx


----------



## Vickytick

Sam - Hope the walk helped to clear your head a bit. One of my friends had AF signs and spotting she was feeling really negative and OTD was today when she got her BFP this morning. So as we said to her its not over until its over. Chin up hunni I've got everything crossed for you  

x


----------



## Samuel Jackson

Aw thanks Vicky that helps, but like your friend im feeling real negative at the mo, would be the best ever if our result was like your friends, thanks for replying means a lot. Hope your ok xx


----------



## doddyclaire

Sam - you know that brown blood is old, so no worries chick - you are on course to get that BFP!!

Angela - keeping my fingers crossed babe, that all goes smoothly from now on!!  Heat to bring the smaller ones up??  Your call!

xxx


----------



## mazza10

Sam, brown blood is definately a good sign...I had that and it was a BFP!  Good Luck!


----------



## wildflower

Hello ladies
I was a snowdrop too and hello to everyone on this thread   .


I'm a bit eratic with logging on to FF at the moment. It took me ages to get round to arranging a FU after the mc. That was a few weeks ago and the doctor was encouraging and booked me in for an ultrasound on sept 8th just to check on endo before we sign up for another round of ivf. 


Mazza I just wanted to to repeat something someone very wise said on the snowdrop thread. I was also down at getting low numbers of eggs but really the perfect number of eggs is only around 10. Those women next to you getting 20 won't have had 20 of them fertilised - most likely half of that number will have been immature. Often the larger number eggs also means the higher proportion of low quality eggs. What you really want most of all is a modest number of great quality eggs. Don't worry about your results from your last round - they are encouraging!
(I know you already know all this, sometimes it just helps to hear it again   !)
Angela - everything crossed for you   
Sam - Don't worry about that spotting, it could always be a good sign! Stay strong till saturday chick   


wildflower x


----------



## mazza10

Aahh thanks Wildflower, that has made me feel alot better.  To be honest I didnt know any of that.  I just thought the more eggs you have the better chance you have of fertilisation and freezing.  I was so nervous day after EC waiting for that phonecall, when she said 5 out of 6 fertilised i was so happy...hope I get the same on round 2 xxx


----------



## Vickytick

*Mazza* - at the risk of sounding like those people who get pg easily and come out with various insensitive words of wisdom about how they know someone who just relaxed and it worked or got pg just by looking at their dp and they are sure it will happen for us eventually - yes whatever. I've learnt through the IVF process that it really isn't quantity that counts. A couple of ladies on the other threads got 12 or more eggs and none of them fertilised which quite frankly would devastate me so take heart that some are better than none. I would be happy with 5 as it would mean a chance to go to blast. As the age old saying goes it only takes one.. (sorry didn't want to sound patronising  )

Angela - hope its all going okay.

Sam - Positive vibes being sent to you.   

Hi to everyone else
V
x


----------



## doddyclaire

On the snowdrops thread we had a little mantra of "Quality, not quantity" and it is so very true.  Its better to have two good ones than 12 duff ones 

Hope you're all ok this morning

So, I am spending the rest of this week being naughty then slimming world kicks in next week, I need to shift about a stone before tx starts again in January, so need to be really hard on myself!  Eeeeekk!!

xx


----------



## ANGELA29A

Hello wildflower, to totally agree with what you said. 
Doddyclaire, forgot out mantra.xx
Sam-hope all is ok today.xvickytick, hope you are ok.x

AFM- hopefully im sure all you ladies will agree, going to try and stop stressing, this stage near EC is totally out of our hands, we have all done anything in our powers to get to this stage, How many eggs, how many fertilise, is up to mother nature, and sure is a kick in the teeth at times, but makes us stronger and ready for more, we will all get our dreams one day :0)))


----------



## doddyclaire

Angela - you are so right hun, we WILL get there 
Have you got another scan this week?

xx


----------



## ANGELA29A

Doddyclaire, yes scan and bloods tomorrow:0)) ans DH is coming with me, he'll me a 1st timer to the scans..lol, and ut will be the last one i'll ever need!!! PMA, PMA..lol

Was just looking back through our snowdrop thread, to what size my follies were last time at this stage, they were about the same, there were so many on that thread, dont know how we kept up..lol.xx


----------



## doddyclaire

Glad he's coming with you but I think it will be the first of several for him, there'll be a 7-week heartbeat scan and then a 12 week one etc etc - how's that for PMA for you!

Finger's x'd for tomorrow for you hun xxx


----------



## ANGELA29A

Doddyclaire, hun that brought a smile to my face.xx


----------



## mazza10

Vickytick, what great words and comforting aswell.

If i get similar the next time round i'll be a happy bunny x

How is everyone else doing?


----------



## mazza10

Has anyone paid for private IVF as yet?  I just found out the cost of the drugs!!!!  I was so shocked, dont know why i thought it would be the same as NHS...

Anyone know roughly what the costs were?


----------



## Rosie Posie

Mazza - I'm at HH too. I am 41 so I have to pay full whack. For short protocol drugs cost £750, my ICSI was £4100 & blastocyst was another £500.
I can just about pay for my next cycle so hope it will work. I think the NHS should provide interest free loans for fertility treatment.


----------



## mazza10

Thanks Emerson.  I'll definately be looking on the internet for other prices...I already checked out the buserelin for the 2 vials was £34 and the cyclogest pessaries were 84p each...not too bad, but the Gonal F was £375.....


----------



## ANGELA29A

although im NHS, at the mo, have looked into private cycle fresh cycle about 5 grand price, someone did tell me to try ASDA pharmacy much cheaper apparantly.x


----------



## Samuel Jackson

Hi girls

Got bfn yesterday    we sort of knew Thursday though as af came big time with nice big period pains on top totally gutted, just feel empty  

Weve just paid for our treatment it cost about £5250 which we paid before treatment then Friday had bill for the bloods cheek of it for nearly £100 thought it was all in  

Love to all

Sam x


----------



## mazza10

Sameul, so sorry....


----------



## doddyclaire

Sam - so sorry darlin   This process is so hard and cruel, and costly too.  Sendin ya massive cyber     xx


----------



## Faithope

*Samuel J*  I am sorry,


----------



## Vickytick

Samuel J - I'm so sorry to hear your news thoughts are with you     

Hope everyone else is okay.

xx


----------



## ANGELA29A

Sam im so sorry.     xxx


----------



## Samuel Jackson

Thanks for all your kind words girls means alot  

Am very up and down at the mo, we went out for a few drinks last night and its silly as i feel bad having a drink as said to db i would rather be driving and pregnant if that makes any sence to anyone??   Went to a carnaval Saturday with some friends and their babies and when we were just leaving i started crying as just thought that i may never be able to bring our little one to things like that   My poor friends didnt know what to say or do as ive always been really strong in front of them and they think i cope really well, so i think it made them realise just how much it affects me emotionally i said im quite often like it but try not to get upset in front of people, crazy crazy life we all have going through this...

Angela are you in tomorrow for egg collection?  Fingers crossed if you are and   you get lots of little eggs  

Hope everyone else is doing ok?

Love to everyone 

Sam xx


----------



## patbaz

Hi ladies 
would you mind if I joined you.  I had FET on the 2nd of August and on 16th of August we got our long awaited BFP, but sadly last Thursday I began to bleed and haven't stopped since   .  I did another pregnancy test and it is negative.  We are devastated to say the least.  I haven't really stopped crying!

I have had a negative cycle before but this time its so much worse as I had my BFP and now its gone.  Thiss whole tx is just so hard.  I      that we all get our baba's soon.

Pat
xx


----------



## Faithope

*patbaz*  so sorry to see you here  Life is so cruel xxxx


----------



## patbaz

Thanks faithhope life just seems to be kicking us in the crotch at every turn!!  I am very angry this time!  Every little thing annoys me. I feel sorry for poor dh. He married a lovely girl but she seems to have turned into a bit of an emotional wreck at the moment lol 

How are you doing??


----------



## K8O

Hi

Can I join you?  We had another failed FET and Im just really really angry right now.  Just can't seem to shake it off.  Previously Ive cried and cried but then moved on.  This time Ive cried and now Ive turned into uber nasty wife.  Not sure how DH is putting up with me at the moment.

  all, this whole thing just doesn't get any easier.  

Kxx


----------



## Faithope

Rubbish if I'm honest, had a good cry yesterday. Eastenders is featuring a storyline about miscarriage soon in case you watch, I heard about it today   I am looking forward to my follow-up in the hope that I can move on and DH and i can prepare for the next TX xxx


----------



## patbaz

K80 so sorry huni. I know exactly how you feel. I am so angry this time too. I think that we just have to talk it out and try to get happiness from anywhere you can. I had a call from my mum yesterday who was looking after my neice who is 21 months. My niece sang to me down the phone head shoulder knees and toes. It was so funny!!  It was the first time I had really laughed since the miscarriage. I really think that it's important to grab the happy moments because we seem to get so few!!


----------



## mazza10

Pat, same thing happened to me.  BFP even on OTD, but I was bleeding 2 days before....knew I lost it when I passed a couple of clots - sorry TMI I know!  I had never seen a positive test so I was so happy...At least I know it worked if that makes sense.

Am now looking forward to my round 2 x


----------



## chance83

Hello

I am devastated just started bleeding last night. My test day isn't until Friday so I was shocked and gutted! I really had my hopes up this time. We have had one failed IUI, one failed ivf due to to no fertilization and then had icsi this time and transferred two day 5 blasts so I thought our chances would be really high from that :-( 

I just feel drained and because we are in the unexplained category I don't know what they could try next to improve our chances. Feeling fed up.

Xxx


----------



## patbaz

Chance83. I am so sorry huni. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to this whole tx. At the end of the day I think it's down to blind luck. You still aren't at otd yet have you got heavy bleeding?  I would still test on otd just in case xx

Thanks Mazza I was 9 days passed otd when I started to bleed. I had just bought some pregnancy books and was on cloud 9. But was brought back to earth with a bump!! Hey ho life goes on!


----------



## longtimewaiting

Hi all – can I please join you here?

MIL died at weekend, she was very poorly so not unexpected but very sad, and today we have a BFN, we really really could have done with some good news this time.  Especially poor DH  

OTD from my clinic is 2 Sept but today its 13 days since EC (in theory although FET this time) and other clinics say test 14 days after EC so really I’m only a day early.  Plus I have to go back to work tomorrow so wanted to know. Will test again on OTD for clinic but sure things aren’t gonna change between now and then.  

This is our eighth cycle, and only one BFP which quickly ended in m/c to show for all we’ve been through - no answers to tell us why we never get the one thing we want.  Every time they tell us it’s just luck and we always have very good chances of success but every time we have the worst luck.  Will it ever change?  

One more FET I suppose – still got 3 embryos on ice. I know we’re lucky to have this, lots of people don’t get frosties, I should focus on this but the negatives are taking over the positives today.

I guess lots of people would have moved on to donor sperm by now, but I want DH’s baby not a strangers.  Perhaps we should try a fresh cycle at another clinic first – one last go for DH’s baby?  Trouble is we’re running out of money – already spent close to £30,000 and I lost my job because of tx. 

Tx has changed our lives and we’re running out of choices – life is not turning out how I wanted and I’m sad and angry and tired and weary.


----------



## mazza10

Longtimewaiting, so sorry.  I have only done 1 IVF cycle, so I cant even imagine what you're going through.


----------



## patbaz

Longtime waiting. I don't know what to say except that I am so sorry for you and dh. Tx is is really a crappy road. My condolences on your MIL. It doesn't matter how unexpected the death is it takes time to get over. Look after yourself and dh and k ow that we are here when you need us x


----------



## JessLange

Longtime waiting. I hear you loud and clear. Your situation is so much worse than mine, but we have had adoption options taken away as well.

Am totally and utterly beyond  knowing what to do. Today I found out that my AMH count is in the very low/undetectable catagory meaning that we look like we have practically no eggs left. My husband is clinically infertile and we have failed clomid and ICSI where I made only 2 eggs, and we are due to begin another round of ICSI when this result came in just today.

DH does not want to egg donate and we have limited funds to carry this all on as we have to self fund. 

I have just learned from researching on the different adoption websites that we cannot adopt another child until our son is 6 years old. He is 18 months old now. Wanting another when we have been blessed with one is just too terrible when I know that your struggles are just as bad as ours, often worse, and I am so sorry for being so selfish. I am just devastated. By that time just starting the process my DH will be 56 and probably won't pass the medical. I always secretly kept adoption as a lifeline; the last resort in case we could not get pregnant but to have this taken away too, all on the same day is just ghastly. 

I am due to start my Bucerelin tomorrow and I just feel like smashing all the bottles on the floor and stamping on them. How do we move on? I feel so alone, so let down. Utterly inconsolable and selfish and dissapointed and failed and stabbed by all of this news. 

I feel like I have been punished for getting a son after all of the miscarages and drugs and waiting and pain.

So sorry to butt in on your strand, but it is good to hear ladies who are just so cross too.


----------



## vixter_1

Hey everyone 

Do you mind if I join the chat? Just got another BFN yesterday and could do with some shoulders! Sorry for lack of personals, will read through and try and bring myself up to speed!

Hugs to everyone who needs them (including me)  

V x


----------



## chance83

Hi Vixter

So sorry to hear your bad news! I got my bfn on Monday and went to work Tuesday but really struggled to hold it together. It is like a bereavement isn't it! I had a good cry last night night after holding it in all day at work but still felt tearful periodically throughout today. It's hard to see any light at the end of the tunnel at this initial point isn't it but hopefully we can feel more positive when we get feedback from our clinics. What doesn't kill us only makes us stronger supposedly! The right time will come for us eventually it just may be a longer journey than we hoped!

Hope you feel better soon x x


----------



## mazza10

Chance83 & Vixter...sorry about your BFN's.    

This is a emotional rollercoaster we are all on, hopefully you'll both find the stength to pick yourselves up.  We are all here for you, so vent all you want!!!!


----------



## patbaz

Chancer83 & vixter so sorry girls. Cry when you need to scream and rant if you want. Everyone here understands what you have gone and are going through. Hold tight we will get through this xx
Pat
xx


----------



## vixter_1

Hey ladies, thanks for welcoming me into the fold!  Had my debrief with the clinic today & learned there is no reason why this cycle failed (all tests came back good) so it onwards & upwards to the next transfer in around 5 weeks - did I mention it goes quickly in Belgium  

I just want this cycle over and done with, we are doing an free IVM study but I grow more and more discouraged by the small success rates of this new TX and want to move over to IVF - which I can't do until we use our remaining embie from IVM.

Pat and Mazza - thanks so much for the offering of venting. I'm still digesting it all over but when the screaming comes you'll be sure to hear me. Sorry you have had to also go through the same thing  

Chance - how was work today? It's just so strange being normal with everyone when something major has happened isnt it. I dont know how many BFNs you've had (I really hope just this one) but this is my second and it's defo less painful than the first. Don't get me wrong, still heart broken but that heart is jut a little tougher - whether that's good or bad, I don't know.


Thanks again to everyone for the welcome, I was virtual friends with a load of lovely ladies on a FET thead but left as I was sacred I'd drag the positive mood down, thought I wouldn't find such a supportive group again but how wrong was I!


----------



## longtimewaiting

mazza10 said:


> Longtimewaiting, so sorry. I have only done 1 IVF cycle, so I cant even imagine what you're going through.


Thank you Mazza10, think the first cycle not working out is one of the hardest to cope with tho so feel for you too. Wish you luck next time x


----------



## longtimewaiting

patbaz said:


> Longtime waiting. I don't know what to say except that I am so sorry for you and dh. Tx is is really a crappy road. My condolences on your MIL. It doesn't matter how unexpected the death is it takes time to get over. Look after yourself and dh and k ow that we are here when you need us x


Thank you patbaz - so sorry you've had bad luck so far too x


----------



## longtimewaiting

JessLange said:


> Longtime waiting. I hear you loud and clear. Your situation is so much worse than mine, but we have had adoption options taken away as well.


JessLange - so sorry to hear everywhere you turn it's devastatingly bad news. I'm not surprised you feel angry. I did just the same as you and thought adoption was a fall back position but when I found out more we were told no chance because of DH's age - but it would be ok if it was just me and I was single! How stupid is that. I just have to be grateful for the frosties we have left and the option of donor sperm and I hope you can take some comfort from having one child. Doesn't stop the angry feelings though.


----------



## marie57

Hi everyone hope you dont mind me joining you just dont know where to turn.Got a bfn today 1 day after otd.I was so positive really had good signs.Had felt like af may come last week but those feelings had all dissapeared.This was my only chance no money left to try again.  Af hasnt shown yet but I guess its only a matter of time now.JessLange I feel your guilt too as I have 2 beautiful DS but it dosnt make the longing for a child any less or the pain of dissapointment any easier to bear


----------



## patbaz

Marie57 I am so sorry huni. It's not fair and it's not easy. Take care of yourself xx


----------



## longtimewaiting

marie57 said:


> Hi everyone hope you dont mind me joining you just dont know where to turn.Got a bfn today 1 day after otd.I was so positive really had good signs.Had felt like af may come last week but those feelings had all dissapeared.This was my only chance no money left to try again.  Af hasnt shown yet but I guess its only a matter of time now.JessLange I feel your guilt too as I have 2 beautiful DS but it dosnt make the longing for a child any less or the pain of dissapointment any easier to bear


Hi Marie - have been following you on 2ww, so sorry to hear your sad news. It's even harder when you've had some good signs, the higher our hopes the further it is to fall. Sounds like we're in the same situation at the moment - 1 day after OTD and BFN but no AF.  I wish I could just see what was going on inside my body no more waiting and wondering. x


----------



## marie57

Thanks longtimewaiting Ive been following your story too hun   Im so sorry for you.You have been through it so many times, how do you pick yourself up from this and move on? Feel that the light at the end of the tunnel has been permanently snuffed out.


----------



## Vickytick

Ladies I've been away for the last week so haven't had a chance to see all the posts - mobile phones, me and internet do not mix - lol.

Trying to do a bit of a catch up with the newbies and what has been happening on here since I last logged on. Sorry to hear about BFN's. I've only had one so far and am hoping that IF it happens again it will be slightly easier to handle. Definitely think I'll be more prepared as I'll be expecting it this time. All I want is one baby to call me mummy is that too much to ask of the world ??

*Longtimewaiting* - you sound very down and my thoughts are with you  . There is nothing I can say to make the pain easier just let you know we are all in similar boats and are here for you.

*Jesslange* - Its awful when you think you have a 'backup' plan (and I mean that in the nicest way as adoption is mine as well) and to have that cruelly taken away from you. 

Marie57, Vixter, Chance83, k80 - so sorry to hear about your BFN's. 

Hello to mazza10, patbaz, faithope, samuel jackson and anyone I've missed. I  things work out for us all.


----------



## longtimewaiting

Marie57 & Vickytick - your first cycle honestly is the worst, give yourself time to cry and just let all the sadness out, after our first BFN I struggled to do anything for weeks, just woke up crying every day. 

We're fast running out of money to continue and faster running out of emotional strength.  I can`t imagine what it`s like to only have enough money for one try.  We`ve been very lucky to be able to afford what we`ve done.

I've got to a point where I can`t even think about what it all means because I`m so emotionally worn out - and I worry that I`d be a useless mum anyway because I can`t even think about being one after all we`ve been thru.  I`ve had to emotionally detach myself from our situation to survive it.    

It`s good to be here and know there are so many other people going thru all this grief x x x  

Big  to everyone.


----------



## Ipps73

Hi Ladies hope you don't mind me joining this thread....

My OTD is tomorrow but I know its definitely BFN as I started AF on day 13 after ET, this is our first IVF cycle and I honestly didn't realise how difficult this would be.  I feel so empty and drained, emotionally and physically.  

Thanks to this site and reading all the posts for most of the day has helped enormously, there are so many tragic stories on here.  I dont think I will be able to try again due to severe endrometriosis.  We had only 3 eggs and only one fertilized grade 3 4 cell.

How do you ladies do it again??  Is it time??  I feel so emotional I don't think I could put myself, DH and family through it again but I so desperately want to be a mummy  

xx


----------



## marie57

Ipps73 so sorry for you hun  this is my 1st tx too and I admire the strength and courage of those who have been through this time and time again its so draining.And as for worrying you wont be a good mother LTW,thats clearly not the case as its your strong maternal instinct that is driving you on and you will be a wonderful mummy when your time comes hun.  we all one day achieve our dreams


----------



## Faithope

Hi ladies, I need to read back to catch up  

I had EWCM yesterday and ovary pain for a little while, well its CD30 today so won't be getting ASF for another 15 days so TX has really messed up my cycles. The positive though is that I got signs of my body trying   I have also got a decision to make about our FET that we want to do in January. I have been selected to do a trial, I have typed all about it in my diary if you would like to take a look. Its in the FET section  

xxxx   to all xxx


----------



## vixter_1

hey faithhope

I think you will have to make the decision on your own but my advice - well, I am also on a free trial for IVM which is like IVF but they take the eggs immaturely. At first I was really happy to have this paid for and to be leading the way for a new fertility procedure but each time it fails I question whether I am emotionally ok to be a study patient or if I want something with better odds.  Trials are still at the study phase, there is a chance they will not produce same results as mass market treatment BUT all DRS want good results so they will work that bit harder to make it work.  If you think you can mentally cope with the smaller odds but the bigger support group of DRs pushing for this to work then I say GO FOR IT - and pave the way as a Fetility Pioneer!!


----------



## Faithope

*Vixter* Where are you having IVM? Thats what i am struggling with-the fact that i may be chosen for natural and that to me feels like I am kissing my chances of pregnancy, with my frosties, goodbye


----------



## vixter_1

hey again, 

I am an ex-pat living in Belgium and the trial is here in Brussels.  But I have had 2 BFNs so far (last one just a week ago) and I am preparing for another FET end of this month (another bonus of a study is it goes quickly since DRs have to publish papers etc).  I will have one more cycle of this and moved on to IVF as I hate having my heart broken each time for smaller odds.

BUT I will say. . .when you are part of study DRs will PUSH to get results.  They will do everything they can to make it work so try not to see it as kissing your chances good bye - but more putting your faith in the hands of the DRs.  I was part of an FET AUG thread and a girl on there has just announced her BFP on a natural cycle so it can happen!


----------



## Faithope

*vixter*  thats helpful to know  I am sorry you are having to go through alot of TX, try to think that with each BFN you are getting closer to your dream  (thats whats making me keep going) I asked where you were having IVM because I know its not widely available + my clinic was one of the first to do it


----------



## vixter_1

Yeah I know a few in the that do it and my one in Brussels.  Its good for me as I have PCOS but Im tired of the BFNs.  Ok I know its only 2 and people here have had a lot more but I would like to increase my chances with a new treatment.  I do have one frostie in the freezer so maybe a miracle will happen and this might work.  Do you know if your clinic have had good results with IVM?


----------



## Faithope

*Vixter* http://www.oxfordfertilityunit.com/treatments/in_vitro_maturation.aspx heres their stats

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## Vickytick

Hi all I just wanted to write a little note to everyone to wish them the very best of luck with their journey and say this will be my last post on this thread. Thank you for all your support and good wishes over the last month or so.

This is purely personal and I don't want anyone to feel offended as that is not my intention but I feel that I need to find a thread whereby the ladies are ttc for their first child so I find that empathy. I truly appreciate that this journey is extremely tough emotionally and physically for *anyone* to undertake whether you have none, one or ten children. But for me personally the thought that I may never hold my own baby, experience the joys of a child growing inside you or kicking you, even once, is heartbreaking and soul destroying and only something someone else in that situation can really understand. I can't help but feel slightly jealous of the ladies with secondary infertility - apologies if that sounds selfish.

Again I apology if anyone is upset by this but I really do with all my heart wish everyone the best of luck.  

xx


----------



## doddyclaire

Vickytick - Good luck on your journey hun, no offense taken by me luv,  understand fully.
You will soon have your arms full of joy 

Take care
xx


----------



## vixter_1

hey Vickytick, 

Now I am confused - I didnt realise this was for people with children already?  I am also TTC my first!   and have the same fears as you. . .

V X


----------



## Faithope

I appear to be the only one with a child who is posting here   I didn't think that this thread was for first timers only? I will not post here if it is causing others to not feel comfortable to post here xxxx


----------



## vixter_1

Hey FaithHope, 

I cant speak for everyone but I have no problems with it at all - everyone who wants a child (second, third, forth) deserves to want and have, in my opinion.  Of course primary infertility is awful for us because we fear we may never get to the stage of having even one baby but I can imagine the frustration you are having of trying to have another after knowing you could have one.

As I say I only speak for myself but I think these boards should be a place where no one worries about these things and welcomes everyone!

I don't think Vickytick meant anything personally, only that she didn't feel comfortable herself coming here - at least that's how I saw it. . .sorry if Im wrong!

V X


----------



## doddyclaire

This isn't a place that discriminates against those with children or equally, those without, please don't think thats the case here  

xx


----------



## marie57

Faithope I also have children and feel guilty on this site because of that,but our pain is still there and still valid    Im sorry if my posts have  offended anyone I totally understand people feeling envious,I feel the same when another friend annouces they are having their 3rd or 4th or 5th with ease.There is a secondary infertility board but its not very current and at the moment after BFN at weekend my feelings are very raw,just wanted to talk to others feeling the same as me,but like you faithope I wont post again if Im upsetting others


----------



## Faithope

*marie* I don't post on the secondary infertility board as I don't feel comfortable with that whole term of 'secondary', The pain is raw regardless as you say. I am suffering from infertility and have done for 8yrs, I have just suffered a BFN from ICSI so posted on the negative cycle thread for support, which I have had 

*doddyclaire* 

*Vixter* Thanks hun


----------



## Vickytick

Ladies I wanted to come on and just check that no-one was upset by my post. This isn't a primary thread at all its for everyone so don't think you can't post that is why I'm stepping away.

I think Vixter summed it up perfectly its my personal issue and I hate the way that that little part of jealously eats away at me so think its better to remove myself. I don't think any less of you ladies struggling I admire you for keeping going if I'm honest.

V
x


----------



## vixter_1

Do what you have to do to get through it Vickytick.

Hugs   from one Vicki to another.

V X


----------



## marie57

Vickytick I understand and   you have your dreams fullfilled soon x


----------



## jen-v

Hello,
I had a bfn (my second) last week. I've had some timeout from ff chat as I've felt a bit too sad to be making new friends, but vixter from my cycle thread has been encouraging me to come and say 'hi'. Hope eveyone's doing ok today, jen-v


----------



## marie57

Hi girls hope you all ok today,Ive got a question to ask Is it nomal for AF to be a lot worse after tx? This was my 1st time so dont know what to expect.Im on 4th day now and it seems to be getting worse.Its very heavy today where nomally by day 3 its quite light,also got a lot more pain than normal esp on R side I had a cyst after clomid on that side and am worried thats returned would be grateful for your advice.It was a bad day for me today felt angry really I went back to work today Im a district nurse and on weds its baby clinic day  All those new babies getting weighed I could have done without.  to allx


----------



## doddyclaire

Morning

Jen-V - Sorry to read of your BFN  , I hope that you are feeling a bit better this week, its so hard, and without the support of FF I don't know how I would have coped either time x

Marie - In all honesty, my AF's after BFN haven't been too bad, but then both times I bled before OTD so I think the worst of mine came away then while still on progesterone which reduced any heaviness and pain.  Hope you feel better today.  Really feel for you in your job, must be very hard to see wee little ones getting their checks and weights done  

xx


----------



## jen-v

Hello all,
Marie57 I had heavy, painful af after my 'fresh' ivf 2 days before otd, then light af 3 days after otd after frozen cycle (with more progesterone support), I have no idea whether this is normal, though! Your job sounds like a really hard one to be doing after a bfn, I think you are very brave to go in and face it. jen-v x


----------



## mazza10

Hi All, 

Wow there's been loads of activity on here since the last time.  

Ipps73 - sorry about your BFN...I know how it feels...  

Vivkytick - you do whatever you feel is right for you.  Wishing you lots of luck &    I'm sure your dreams will be fulfilled someday.

Marie57 - I would have to say yes it is wrose.  Well it was for me.  I didnt think it would stop and lasted longer than normal and was alot heavier.

AFM - I have my review appt next Thursday.  Hope I can start round 2 soon....


----------



## marie57

Thanks for replying girls,its such a help to hear others experiences,and like you doddyC I dont know how I would cope without ff either.Sending us all lots of   Does everyone know what their next step is? I had a chat with DH today think weve both been a bit afraid to talk about things in case we want different things which I think we do.Hubby thinks we need an action plan which I do agree with but feel its too early to make descisions I feel different from 1 day to the next.DH dosnt want to go throgh anymore tx as he feels its destroying the family we have (certainly the way ive felt since BFN has not been good for any of us)But I dont think Im ready to give up the dream just yet


----------



## vixter_1

Welcome JenV, glad you could join us!

Hey Marie, I had a BFN last week and Im already preparing for my next FET at the end of this month as started my AF on Tues.  I'm getting back on that horse.  I know lots of people need time out and totally understand and respect it but I work much better when the next plan is set in motion - moving on to the next thing makes me feel like Im in control of it all.  Good luck in whatever you decide, its a very personal decision. 

Hugs to all the other ladies, hope today is a stronger day for every as we start to put some distance and healing time in since the BFN.  

V X


----------



## marie57

Thanks for your reply Vixter and I wish you so much luck in your next cycle I    it will be a happy ending next time for you.Unfortuanately I didnt get any frosties as I would def be going back for them so I would have to go through whole process again.Trouble is I had agreed with dh it would be our only try as he never wanted to do tx in 1st place,but had done so as a gift to me,so now I guess its my turn to make a sacrifice but I dont know how or where to start


----------



## stell

Afternoon ladies,

Hope it's okay to join this thread? Got my BFN on Tuesday from first FET. 

Hi Vixter and Jenv -hope you are both ok?   Thanks Vixter to encuraging me to join here just feeling up to it today!

Will try and have a proper look thru chats and keep up! as you like to chat as much as the other lovely ladies on FET thread!  

My AF this time after BFN has been quite bad very heavy (sorry) and lots of pain! In my PJs as I speak! Not used to sufferring any pains from AF!
Got my review appointment on 19th Oct but was hoping it was a bit earlier as just want to get started again and put all the pain of this BFN behind us! 

Stella x


----------



## jen-v

Hi Stell, so sorry about your bfn   but really good to see you here. Sorry you are having bad af - it really doesn't help, does it? We were lucky and have followup 3 weeks after otd - I'm not sure whether your hosp will let you push for a cancellation, mind you there are benefits for waiting a bit - I imagine I'll be crying through my appointment like last time!   jen-v xxx


----------



## marie57

hi stell very sorry about your BFN its all so draining, Like you my af has been lots worse this week after tx but the girls here have reassured me that can be the case for some of us  I have my review appt on 18th and clinic said they like to give it a couple of weeks so you can get your head together a bit and think of any questions you want to ask.Its good this thread is current as I felt very lost after going on the tx thread each day to chat but after BFN I just feel I dont belong there anymore.


----------



## Princess H

Hi Marie, I found you. Thanks for the invite. xxx

I hope all you ladies don't mind me joining you. I had my 2nd BFN yesterday. It was our last NHS cycle cos I turn 40 a week on Monday. We are now looking at DE in Spain. 

It's hubby's birthday today so won't be on here for long but i'll look forward to getting know you all.

Helen xxx


----------



## marie57

Lovely that you could join us princess,just so sorry its in these circumstances hun   Hope you and hubby have some fun for his birthday today.Must be hard for youxx


----------



## cymbeline

Hi All,
        2 nd day following 1st BFN ( tested again today and the same)and perhaps have cried a few buckets less than at this time yesterday . I just want to say a big thank-you to Maria for being so positive and encouraging. Looking back through this thread is truly inspiring and I know there are others with much sadder stories. To be honest by yesterday evening I wasn't sure if I was crying over mine or other peoples' losses by the end of the day.Vixter - you sound so strong

Onwards and upwards I know, but I am seriously worried how I am not going to cry at work tomorrow. Only one colleague knows and I've told her not to look or speak to me or I will dissolve.

Trying to think of 9/11 victims and families and remember how lucky I am.

Big hugs to all. Am going to try and stay away from website until this evening as I am getting nothing done.Funny how I check this far more than ** now. In fact yesterday found out on ** friend was expecting her third, and this morning another friend said she was just getting crib from loft as 2nd baby imminent. Not going on there again. 

I have to believe this one just wasn't meant to be

Love to all xx


----------



## marie57

Hi noahsark so glad you could join us here  I know what you mean about ** dosnt seem half as important as coming on here does it? I will be thinking of you tommoro at work hun  its so hard to concentrate on anything for long everything feels tinged with sadness,I feel kind of flattened very hard to describe.Its a week on from the awful BFN for me,hopefully now I can stop thinking this time last week I still thought I had a chance and could just enjoy being pupo  (although I didnt really was too worried  )Keep wondering if I did too much on 2ww I walked to a resturant only round the corner on ET day and went to park day after,heard of someone who is doing complete bedrest for a week,wish I had now.  to us all hope we are all moving little steps forward each day.mariaxx


----------



## jen-v

Marie57, please don't blame yourself - we all try so, so hard to do all the right things in tx, navigating all the conflicting advice th best we can, and anyway my clinic said it was good to go for gentle walks for blood flow. Ivf etc is such a cruel process and just doesn't work sometimes, usually for completely no reason   You really don't deserve to be feeling guilty on top of all the sadness  
Hi noahsark and princessH, hope you are doing OK.   I'm 13 days on from bfn, and doing better (little steps is exactly how it feels!), although I did a lot of crying last night, which was cathartic. I think feeling flat, listless & sad is a normal response too (effectively being a bit depressed - for a very understandable reason) jen-v xxx


----------



## Swanage

Hi ladies I know some of you from the fet thread so wanted to come over and say hi, I had my bfn last Thursday but got an appointment for end of month and should start another fet in october (last lot of frosties thou) hope your all well and as happy as possible xxx


----------



## DMaria

HI girls,
I'm another sad BFN popping over from the FET thread. Jen-v thanks so much for the invite, it was exactly what I needed as I read it today! The support of the FF FET thread was invaluable to me during the 2ww, but I think this is a more appropriate place for me now  

I had a BFN from my FET - today was the official test day but I tested negative a few days ago and accepted that as the "real" result. (today's final test was also negative, no surprise there).
That was our last frostie, hope to consider a fresh cycle around Christmas. Need to book follow up now but can't bring myself to make the phone call!

Will try to catch up with the girls I don't know yet on this thread in the next few days.
Love and hugs to you all
DMaria


----------



## cymbeline

I just wanted to say hello and send my sympathies to all those BFNs over the last couple of days. It is truly devastating, especially if it is a repeat one, but Day 3 and I have managed almost a day at work without bursting into tears. It is actually better being here than wandering round the house not knowing what to do - listless is exactly the right word. I keep thinking 2 weeks ago it was just happening and what should I have done differently. It's so hard.

Reading everyone's posts is so helpful and I am amazed by everyone's strength.

Take care and love to all


----------



## MJ in London

Hi everyone, 

Vixter, Jen-V, Stella, Swanage and D-Maria, really good to see you all again from the FET thread. Everyone else, good to ‘meet’ you too.

I am one week on from BFN (3rd cycle). I am finding it very hard. We had told way too many people about our treatment, so there has been that pressure to update everyone after another failure. The worst thing is that 2 of my closest friends I emailed and they still haven’t written back (a week later). I guess they don’t know what to say, but surely something is better than nothing?!

One of my friends at work who knows we are having treatment but doesn’t know exact dates is pregnant now herself. She was really sensitive when she first told me and made sure I knew before she told our whole team. (It was just after our last failed cycle) but she doesn’t know we’ve just had another failed cycle. Anyway on Friday she emailed around her 23 wk scan and was asking for baby name suggestions. I found that really hard. But then I know that if she had left me off the email I would’ve been upset at that too! So I know that I am really sensitive and people can’t really win at the moment. Hmmm.

Noahsark - I know what you mean about **. Every day there are posts about scans, births, christenings or something. It’s hard to keep positive and feel good things towards everyone. I hate the negative feelings in myself right now as normally I am so pleased for any of my friends and happy to share in their joy.

Marie and Stella - I am also having terrible AF. Mine is usually very heavy and painful for first few days but I am now on day 4 and still really, really painful and heavy. Worse than after previous TXs. I wonder if having progesterone IMI injections makes it worse than with suppositories. Either way, it is awful.

I feel so flat today. I am working from home but to be honest not getting much done, which is not like me. 

Anyway, just wanted to join the thread. Am really sorry for the long ‘moaning me’ post. Will try and pop back with more positivity soon.

Big hugs to all. xxx


----------



## stell

Hi MJ. Lovely to see you here hun.

Sorry you are feeling so flat    You are allowed to have a moan psot!  Stay strong hun. 

My DH thinks we told too many people this cycle - well that id did- and said he doesn't want anyone to know when we start our next fresh cycle which I said will be very difficult especially as I need my work to know because of teh time I will need off and the things I need to refrain from doing before and after transfer. It's difficult and as you say there is pressure to update everyone!
I know what you mean by feeling you can't really win at the min too. Lots of my friends have announced they are pregnant in the past couple of weeks and lots of my DH friends wives are pregnant and he is finding it all really hard being happy for them and saying congratulations! You want to feel happy for other people but just keep wishing it was you! 

Big   stella x x


----------



## marie57

hi MJ and Stell lovely to meet you.Why is it everywhere I turn at the moment there are babies? Did any of you see coronation st ? And then followed by doc Martin,carrying the baby around for what seemed like the whole hour.Guess its just me being a misery


----------



## ANGELA29A

all over for us again, didnt get to test day, AF arrived during the night. dont know where we go from here, if anyway, numb.
love to all.xxx


----------



## Faithope

*Angela*


----------



## Little-Lee

3rd cycle down & we have got another BFN - Why does life have to be so cruel  

I thought I would join this thread as not feeling over positive for the other threads right now. I honest thought this was my time!!
I can't try again till April next year which feel so far away.

Between now & then I want to try convince DH to change clinic.

Lea xxxxx


----------



## Samuel Jackson

Angela big   really sorry its not worked xx

Little lee   to you too x

Hi to all the newbies, sorry youve had to join this thread under the circumstances xx

Will catch up again xx

Sam x


----------



## smudge52

Hi ladies, i wasnt sure what to do with myself after my 4th failure   just waiting for another af (the first has been long and horrific) and then can ring the clinic again for another round of torture.  I havent cried yet, i have put the barriers up but my mum is terribly upset which kind of makes me feel bad for her.  Not sure how to feel anymore, just numb inside and out xx sorry its a me post, nice to catch up with a few of you from the fet thread, pity it wasnt on an alternative thread though, but our turn will come xxx   will try and catch up with all of you on the thread soon though xxx


----------



## marie57

So sorry for you Angela   Smudge52  and LittleLee   It all just seems so unfair and there are just no real answers I think thats the hardest thing  Be kind to yourselfs and give yourself time to grievexx


----------



## DMaria

Good morning girls,

From what I can see from the last few pages, Noahsark, Marie 57, Angela, Faithope and Samuel Jackson are the ladies that I don't already know from the FET thread (probably there are more, but I've only gone back a few pages so far!).
So, it's nice to meet you ladies, looking forward to chatting, just wish we didn't have to meet here  

Can I ask a question? When can I expect AF after stopping crinone and progynova? On my other cycles I never made it to OTD, AF arrived despite being on the crinone (so at least there's some positive there I think - I can respond to the progesterone support! I was worried about that!).
I only stopped the crinone yesterday and I am expecting maybe 2-3 days before AF?
Any suggestions?

Thanks!!
Hugs to all,
DMaria xxxx


----------



## Princess H

Hi girls, sorry not been on. Been in hospital since last night. Came in after seeing GP about tummy pains. Got a scan at 2.50pm to see what is wrong xxx


----------



## smudge52

Princess H hope everything is ok and you feel better soon xx   

DMaria I stopped taking the meds a week ago on Sunday and AF arrived the same day, but from my previous cycles it has taken up to 2 weeks to arrive which the clinic told me was ok.
xx


----------



## DMaria

Thanks smudge - I'm feeling a bit crampy so hope it's on its way - just want to get it over with 

Princess H -sorry to hear you're unwell, hope scan goes OK.

Dm xxx


----------



## ANGELA29A

hello girls, 3rd time here for me, never ever get to otd date AF always rears its ugly head 1st. Its nice to see alot of names i recognise on here, but so wish it was a postive thread and not a negative one. hugs to you all.xxx


----------



## jen-v

Princess H r u ok? 
Hello Angela, so sorry about your news - it really isn't fair.  
Swanage, DMaria, MJ, smudge, stell and LittleLee,   so sorry for bfns, but glad to see you again, really hope you are doing OK. 
DMaria - my AF arrived 3 days afer otd ad last gestone - I was pleased to make it this far too, as last time I didn't. AF wasn't that heavy, either. 
Oh Smudge - your lovely mum!I txted my family to let them know, but I've not even spoken to my mum yet, she clearly doesn't know what to say and has decided I need 'space'...  - so I know how you feel MJ. I should probably ring them all myself, but can't quite face it 
Hello to everyone else too xxx


----------



## ANGELA29A

is it not bad enough we have a BFN, but the pains that come with AF are unreal


----------



## DMaria

Oh dear, so I'm not just looking forward to AF but it's going to be superpainful too! 
Sorry to hear you're in such pain Angela and MJ. 

Stell- my DH says I give too much info to friends also!

On the subject of telling people though, I was really careful this time not to tell many people the dates of our FET cycle. It's been easier in many ways, but a bit weird because several people I work with knew, but my Mam doesn't. 
MJ I do think it's difficult that you haven't heard back from the friends you have told- even if it's awkward for them. The counsellor at my clinic said not to expect that friends would be able to give the right support, because 'they won't have a clue'! Strangely enough I found that helpful, I don't feel let down by them because I don't expect understanding anymore. That's when I joined FF!!!
Also, I've decided that for the moment I just don't have to feel happy for others who announce they are pg, show scan pictures etc. I wish them well, of course, but right now I'm just after my BFN and I'm allowed not to feel happy for anyone! 

My DH's Mum sent me a message today to say sorry about the BFN, but also to say thank you to me for 
putting myself through it all! I thought that was the nicest message! I keep crying every time I think about it!

So, thanks for 'listening' girls- this was the first cycle that I had joined FF for, and although I feel so sad reading everyone's BNF posts, it is reassuring to see that my sad and 'empty' feelings seem normal. 
I hope we can help to give each other strength to continue,
Love and hugs
DMaria xxx


----------



## smudge52

DMaria that made me cry, you know we are always here for you and know exactly what you are going through, the sisterhood continues  xxx


----------



## DMaria

Oh smudge, thanks for your lovely message! Sorry if I made you emotional, I was trying to be a bit positive, but I was having a wobbly day today. I think you have been having some wobbly days too from your posts   - probably we all are! 
I did manage to cheer up watching the great British bake-off though - so many lovely meringue pies! Must lose the extra FET pounds however  

Chat soon ladies,
DM xxx


----------



## ANGELA29A

Dmaria, what a lovely message from MIL. this journey is so hard. hugs.xxx

Nearly went to A&E in the early hours as pains are so bad, they have eased now, dosed up with painkillers.x


----------



## Ems2

Hi ladies, 5th cycle for us  , don't know what to do with myself so am turning to faithful FF..... I feel numb, frustrated and angry - its so unfair .  still waiting for AF too - dreading that - wish it would hurry up already and get it over.

i don't recognise many names from other threads but hello to you all and so sorry we are all in the BFN boat.  lovely messages from people made me cry and smile.

not having the greatest day today, hopefully you'll also see me on one of my better days when I'm not quite so lost and depressed  

Ems xxxx


----------



## ANGELA29A

hello and welcome Ems.xx


----------



## jen-v

hi ems, good to meet you, but sorry about your news. Hope your day got a bit better, i think if we cant be 'lost and depressed' on ff, where can we? 
Hows everyone else? I have ovary pains, maybe ovulating already 14dp otd? May need to get cracking with trying again naturally, although dont feel like it ! Jen-v


----------



## DMaria

Hi everyone,
welcome Ems - sending you a big hug,  , that's really difficult. My AF finally arrived today, like you was just wanting it to come and get it out of the way. FF is definately the place to come for numb, frustrated and angry! The despair can be overwhelming, but you're not alone.  Have you any thoughts on what your next plan might be? Or do you want to take some time out to "live" for a while? 
Angela sorry to hear your pains are so bad - that sounds unreal! I had crazy AF pains at the beginning of my cycle, when I just started my progynova (this AF is "normal" so far) - it's ridiculous that we have to suffer such bad AF on top of everything. I guess it's to do with the hormonal tx?
-Yes, the message from my MIL was lovely, wasn't it? A different perspective and one that doesn't usually come from anyone apart from our DHs/DPs (if they remember to say thanks!). Maybe it's something all "grandparents" should learn!
Hi Jen-v! looks like you may have to get cracking again   I know, I know,  it's a bit of a chore, but it's not the worst part of ttc !  
How's everyone else? Princess H -how was your scan?

Big hugs,
DMaria


----------



## Ems2

thanks ladies for the warm welcome, working from home today so able to have a good blub and get it out of my system - feel better for having my rant, thanks for listening 

usually after a BFN I can't even think about another cycle but this time I just feel like time is running out and I just need to get on with it.  that said the diet is definitely out the window this week - red meat & chips here I come   and from next week I think back to healthy eating, go and see my acup and see what he recommends and try to find some motivation from somewhere.  oh on top of that we are moving house in a few weeks - eek!.

Jen-V - good luck with the natural ttc, seems such a long time since we did any of that just for fun, no matter how hard you try its just not quite the same.  I know what you mean about talking to parents, I haven't managed to talk to my mum yet either, I just know I will fall to pieces, we txt everyone but that's it so far - still too raw.
Angela - sorry your pains are so bad, I try taking paracetamol and neurofen together (I think they may even do a combined one over the counter).
DMaria - what a nice message from your MIL,  

Ems xx


----------



## wildflower

Ems2 - haha    your post just rang really true with me. Have just eaten steak and chips & drinking glass of red but promising myself that the healthy diet starts tomorrow   


Hope you can get started on a new cycle soon. I applaud your positivity and courage!


----------



## jen-v

yes I've just had 2 weeks full of lasagne, sausages, chocolate icecream and wine! (also felt free to splurge on some antihistamines when I had an allergy - the luxury!) Trying to get back on the salad wagon, but my heart's not in it ... DP has not been allowed so much indulgence as his struggling swimmers take so long to make. As for ttc naturally, I know we don't have much of a chance, but as long as it isn't 0%, I'm game, and at least its free! I know that's not quite the attitude to   but never mind. xxx


----------



## marie57

Hi everyone 
Jen-v Good luck with  think I might give that a go too as you say has to be worth a try maybe all those hormones have changed somthing inside and we could get lucky.Dh will be happy last time there was any thing like that he was in a room alone with a plastic pot to aim for  
Angela my Af was a lot heavier more painful and longer than ever but have been told thats often the case after tx mother nature can be very cruel cant she  
Ems2 Welcome to you hun just wish it was in better circumstances   
PrincessH Please let us know if you are ok hun   are you out of hospital? What happened at scan?


----------



## jules40:)x

This thread made me cry, first ICSI, first failure - 2 grade A embie but no BFP = DH thought it was assured, that made it harder, like I'd let him down - I have 2 lovely b oys to a complet w*nker, I know I am so lucky but I love my new husband (we had IVF on our honeymoon) so much and he IS going to be such a fab dad that it really hurts 

Sorry for me post, Dmaria    


J x


----------



## jen-v

Jules40, so sorry about your news - its just so awful isn't it.    I like your commitment with ivf on honeymoon! Will you be able to try again? 
Marie57   !
Hope everyone is keeping it together today, or maybe its healthier not to? Anyway, sending   to everyone jen-v x


----------



## Lorny

Hey ladies,

Hope you don't mind me joining you.

DMaria & Jen-V - hi again   hope you're both doing ok?

AFM - Had ICSI FET 30/08/11, AF arrived before OTD & then got expected BFN on OTD. I found out prior to FET that I have hydrosalpinx & have since discovered that I should have had my tubes either clamped or removed before treatment. I'm waiting to hear from Bart's about follow up but as yet i'm getting no joy, just banging my head against a brick wall I think.  

 to all!

Lorna
-x-


----------



## DMaria

Hi Girls,

Hi Lorny! Situation with your clinic sounds a tad frustrating to put it mildly! Hopefully you get some answers soon, but you shouldn't have to hassle them for something so important. There's nothing worse than the feeling that your clinic isn't there for you for questions, or if they make you feel like your concerns are unimportant. I know they're dealing with lots of patients, but it's the nature of the game they're in, if they choose to work in this area, they have to treat every patient with loads respect (and I don't mind saying especially those of us at the IVF/ICSI end, as we are at the most difficult end of the ttc spectrum).

Hi Jules! Poor you!   On my first cycle I think DH was a little more convinced than I was that it would work - I guess the common belief is that conceiving via IVF is easy. We were told from the start that we should expect several cycles before success - I just hope they weren't including FET in that! :-( I really hope that your love for each other has the outcome you deserve 

Marie  Funny comments about DH! It must be so degrading for them though, mustn't it? I never really think about it, as feeling sorry for DHs little role in the process just doesn't enter my head as I have to do so much more! But, as Jen-v said, getting back to the natural attempts, at least it's free! (and more realistic...). It would be wonderful if we had some results that way from some of us here wouldn't it?

Hi Wildflower and Ems - hope you are both having a nice day. Regarding the BFN diet - well to be honest I ate rubbish for a lot of my FET cycle - the progynova just made me constantly hungry initially, then towards the end it was really just comfort eating  
I do like being able to get some exercise again now though, and DH and I opened a bottle of wine on Monday!  I think there's still some left as we are only having a little each evening, but such a treat!!!
Otherwise hoping to get back in shape. AF was painful last night, but not more than normal. Have the "luxury" as jen-v says of being able to take painkillers   So, hopefully I won't have another extra-painful AF.

Still have to arrange my follow up appt in clinic - still can't face calling them! no rush though, as don't want to try again til Christmas and want to collect as many questions together as possible!

Well ladies, I'm writing quite an upbeat post, but am overcome with sadness quite often - more so than after my other cycles - I think it's because we have nothing left, that was our last frostie   

Well catch up later to see how you are all getting on,
Love and hugs
DMaria xxxx


----------



## Little-Lee

Hi Everyone,

This thread is very busy   I am mega busy at work since coming back Wednesday so no time to break off (other then right now   )

Hope everyone is ok? I will try catch up with you all later tonight  

AFM - Af arrived yesterday and is killing me with pains   Been invited out with friends tonight but I feel like I am being to heartless, just acting like everything is ok!!!

Don't know what you ladies think of tattoos but I have 5 & have booked for another on on 24 Sept - I'm going to get a lotus flowers (orange) with the writing ''never give up'' wrote underneath it. I think its something I will be able to carry with me forever even when my wish does come true I will never forgot what it has taken!!!!

Lea xxxx


----------



## Lorny

Dmaria - the frustrating thing is the nurse told me she'd already passed my notes to admin on Tuesday @ 8:30am but the one lady in Admin that is booking FU's insists she hasn't had my notes yet, despite already having booked FU's for people that had negative otd yesterday. Sounds as though my file has been lost....again. 

The whole ivf process is so draining, especially when you've had all the meds etc. Are you going private or through NHS? Good idea to have a list of questions prepared, we did last time but completely forgot about them, lol 

Little-Lee - I think the tattoo is a lovely idea,  i'm sure you'll never forget what it has taken once you've got your little in your arms.

AFM - still not been able to cry or show any emotion...trouble is the emotional eating has really kicked in now. I'm giving myself til the end of the week then i'm starting my Paul McKenna cd again. Going to aim to lose a bit of weight before next cycle, can't plan how much yet as don't know how long i've got! lol. Since starting ivf i've put on over 2 stone so if I can make a dent in that i'll be happy


----------



## jen-v

Welcome Lorny   hope u r ok. So sad your clinic is being so rubbish - can anyone else ring on your behalf and give them a rocket? Is there a hydrosalpinx thread on ff? everyone on this website seems to know so much!

DM - thanks for being cheery even when you are feeling so sad  

Lea - your tattoo sounds like a lovely positive thing to do, and you are brave - the ivf and acupuncture needles were enough for me!

 to all other ladies - hope everyone's hanging on in there. 

AFM Had a bit of a cry tonite as I'm meant to be seeing my pg sister, and I just don't think I can do it yet without breaking down, but I don't want to hurt her feelings and create a rift. What to do? I guess I can try to explain about how hard it is, but I don't want to seem 'weird' or bring her down. jen-v


----------



## smudge52

hi sorry, just a quick one littlelee im not sure if it is the same with all clinics, but i was told that if i had a new tattoo, i had to wait a year before i was allowed another cycle of ivf. im not sure why but possibly because of any diseases that you can pick up xx


----------



## molly79

Hi ladies! 

Can I join you? My test day was 13/09. Had a positive Hpt on the 11/09 then Af arrived the next day!! Bfn........ Again! 

Much love

Molly xx


----------



## marie57

Hi again Jules40 I remember you from 2ww thread,so sorry about your bfn this journey really does suck   nice to meet you Lorny and molly79    to you both
Dmaria yes you are right about it being a small role for our DH but I think mine was quite traumatised by the whole experience  Also I saw a thread on here about questions for follow up appt I have mine on Mon so will probably take down a few of those.
Jenv thats a very hard situation for you,but im sure your sister will understand whatever you decide to do  As for the emotional overeating I say lets all get stuck in together


----------



## Lorny

jen-v - i'm a bit of a control freak lol so wouldn't trust anyone else to call hospital for me & ask all the right questions etc. I've booked a doctors appt for next weds though so will discuss everything with him & hopefully get a bit of insight as to what needs to happen now. 

Hope everything goes ok with your sister, i know how difficult that can be as me & my sister had ivf 2 weeks apart, i had mc but she went full term. I've just had to bottle it all up, probably not the best thing to do but don't/didn't want to upset her when I know she felt bad about the situation anyway. I have had a good cry every now & then but I can change what has happened & just have to try to be positive & focus on the future. 

Smudge52 -  

Molly79 -  hope you're doing ok, we had same otd. are you nhs funded or private? Do you have any plans for next cycle?

Marie57 - thank you for the welcome!

Lorna

-x-


----------



## DMaria

Good afternoon girls,
just  a quick sneaky one while at work - I will be at my parents this weekend so not sure how often I'll be able to log on, they have a computer from the jurassic age...

Jen-v, that's a really difficult one. At the end of the day, family are important, and this will be one of your nephews/nieces on the way, and that's special too. However, you are just after your BFN. I would say if you want to visit, or can, do, but don't feel bad about it if you can't. My DH has gone to visit his brother this weekend and their first baby. I didn't go. I would like to meet the baby on her own, but not the whole situation! I don't feel bad about it, I just can't do it. Simple as that. (But they're my in-laws not my sis) You should do whatever you feel is best for you, and either way you might need to explain to her that it's difficult? I hope it works out OK for you.  

Lorny, hope you finally get your answers! I'm based in Ireland, so it's private all the way (except that the government pay for most of the drugs, so it's a slightly cheaper private option) - there is no publicly funded fertility treatment here.

Marie57 good luck with your appt on Monday - I saw the list of questions too on the other thread. It's good, makes you think of even more questions!

Hi Molly - so sorry to hear about your BFN     Welcome to the thread

Hi Smudge and Little Lee - Leelee I think the tattoo sounds like a lovely idea, but probably you should check out the "rules" from what smudge said. I would love to do something to mark the journey - I really would like to mark the 3 embies we have lost somehow, but I don't know what to do. I'm too chicken (and too flabby!!!) to have a tattoo though! Was going to plant something but DH said if it didn't grow then I'd be really upset! My latest idea is some kind of artwork or something - something we could take with us if we move house. Has anyone else had any nice ideas for this? Or am I being a nutter?!!!


AFM, had wonderful chat with my beautician yesterday while getting legs waxed! (tmi I know, but I was afraid even to get waxed while on 2ww in case it somehow upset the embie!). Anyway, my beautician took 7 years to get pg, and was very understanding and positive. It's amazing where you find sources of comfort in this. Also, I had a missed call today because the counsellor at the clinic phoned to see how my cycle went (I didn't call the clinic yet) and to see how I was! Now, I was very upset last time I saw them, before our last cycle, but I thought it was good of them to actually follow it up and call me after this cycle. I'm impressed, and also thinking that I might just make an appt to go and talk to her as well as meet with the doctors. Otherwise, I'm very tired cos I'm not sleeping brilliantly. I'm not stressed, I think I'm actually just waking up feeling sad  

Really looking forward to starting to try   naturally again, to be honest, I'm starting to feel the need to start doing something!
Hi to everyone else,
hope the weekend is nice to you,
Love 
DMaria xxxxx


----------



## jen-v

Just crossed with your post DM - I'm meant to be working too!   It was suggested to us that it might help to do something to mark the embryos we'd lost - we rent our house so don't want to plant a tree or anything! DP suggested doing something together like going on a lovely walk somewhere beautiful just the two of us, but being solemn all day might be weird. I like the idea of a painting - that sounds really nice. 

Welcome Molly, so sorry for your terrible news  

Lorny   I don't think that makes u a control freak! No one knows enough  about my tx to ring for me either! 

marie57 my follow up is next week too - I feel I need the weekend doing 'homework' to get all my questions ready - I hope my consultant has time for them all!

hi smudge - lucky u knew about the tattoo thing - its amazing how much knowledge there is on ff - how does anyone manage without it? R u ok?

AFM healthy eating starting up again! Just had soup for lunch - need to bring that bmi down pretty quick - off for a woodland walk tonight - feel like I've done no exercise for months and am very sluggish. Think it might help cheer us up too. Thanks everyone for wise advice about seeing my sister - I think I'll probably go for it as I miss her, but keep it to an hour or two. We're a close family, so keeping my distance from her would be odd. Funnily enough seeing little neices and nephews doesn't seem so hard - its the pregnant thing. Really hoped I wouldn't feel this way, but it turns out I do.   Lorny, it must have been just so hard for you and your sister - my sister and me have been ttc at the same time too.
  
 to absolutely everyone, jen-v xxx


----------



## marie57

hi girls hope everyune feeling a little better with each passing day  
Welcome Molly79
Littlelee hope your af pains are a bit better,1 day closer to having it over and done with eh!
Lorny dont feel bad about not cryingwe all show emotion differently and as you have been here before you are probably a bit more realistic than someone like me  
DMaria I think it was very good of your clinic to phone you and check how you are,I saw the clinic counseller this week she was quite good it helped dh and me to talk about what we want as individuals
Hello ems Jules smudge Angela noahsark   
Princess H how are you?
Jen-V have you had a review appt before? Im not sure what to expect,There is not much they can say is there? unless you want further tx is there much point? Im undecided what to do next  .Dh wants to stop as we had said only 1 go,but I dont know if I will regret it later  You are good going back to the healthy eating I cant face it yet


----------



## cymbeline

Hi Maria and everyone,
                      I am so sorry its not your DPs wish to try again - must be so hard. Perhaps he will come round eventually when he realises it will make you happier - it's the rollercoaster of trying which is so awful - I honestly don't know how people do it.
  Thanks for your mention and hope all BFNs are surviving. One week exactly since I got BFN and I am definitely much better. I did burst into tears at work yesterday - I think I'd held it together for 4 days and it all got too much. Luvkily its been stressful at work - a distraction for me, but a good excuse for tears while friend who knows was winking at me and making me laugh  despite my tears. I've found it really hard that several on my old "clinic specific" thread are about to start or have just got BFPs and although I am so pleased for them as individuals, as you feel you know them a little, you can't help but think why not me, I did everything I could, and I don't want to bring the ones trying at the clinic down. The other thing that made me cry was sad songs in the car - nothing to do with babies but made me well up.
Going to see parents today so got to be ultra natural - they don't know I did this as they would disapprove as I am single - last couple of times my mum said I had put on weight! - the drugs definitely did this
I've had a splitting headache and not sure if its a withdrawal from all those hormones. Definitely not getting back into healthy eating yet! Another week of whatever I want and no exercise.
  Thinking of everyone and hoping we can find a little part of our lives a little happier than last few days.I do truly believe this wasn't the right time. 
Another question just in general - has anyone used Dhea?  My acupuncturist said it could improve AMH although I have heard differing things. xx  to all
xxxx


----------



## marie57

Noahs ark so pleased you are feeling a bit better hun  It must be so hard going through this on your own,but I do believe you are doing the right thing hun.You only get 1 shot at life and you need to do what makes you happy.I have a friend who is 44 she is such a lovely person and would make a wonderful mum but the right guy has never come along for her  it causes her so much pain,it shows and ive said to her she could try tx,I know I would in that position.Have you told many people for support?You know you have us   
Afm-I know how dh feels as we are lucky enough to have our 2 boys  and of course tx is having an effect on the whole family,financially and emotionally,the tx was a lot better than I expected but its this bit, getting the BFN and of course there is no gaurantee that wont happen again  and again  Im starting to look into tube recannulisation as i do know of people on here that have had it even though my drs say nobody does it anymore as IVF has overtaken it  Think I could live with just my natural chances at my age if I knew tubes were clear so did have some chance.May also look into adoption,I would like to do this from abroad,but again dh not so keen.Noahs ark-at least there is only you to make the decisions hun


----------



## molly79

Hi all!

I've not had a chance to properly go through all the posts, so just wanted to say a quick hello and thankyou for the warm welcome. Not the best thread to be on but nice to get some comfort from others in the same boat!
Lorny - same otd, what a horrible day hey! We're private and hoping to start again mid october. You any plans to go for it again?

Much love

Molly xxx


----------



## jen-v

marie57 - its so hard when you and DH pull in different directions over IF, but happens sooo often I reckon, as we are often just in different places about this. counsellor said something interesting to us about it - she said it isn't something you can really 'compromise' about - you either do tx, adoption etc or you don't, so someone has to agree to give up what they want for the other one. (I'm kind of determined it won't be me! not quite the spirit to take...) We are vaguely thinking about donor stuff for the future - dp a bit wary about this new plan and he doesn't like 'change', so I'm getting us talking early! I think talking about it together with the counsellor is the way forward for us - so we don't have to talk about it _all the time_ at home (which is what i want to do, but dp finds it stressful and boring, understandably!  ), just for an hour from time to time, with a referee if we need it. Its our 2nd review appointment - I found the last one really useful, even though I cried a lot and felt like an , as I felt I knew more about our options, and was reassured about the things that had gone well. Ours is included in the tx cost anyway, so might as well!

noahsark  glad you are doing better, I know what you mean about the crying - I think I'm feeling fine, then I burst into tears about the smallest things when I'm least expecting it! I think its normal after what we've been though, just a bit embarassing ... I'm keeping my big, dark sunglasses handy for disguise, even when its 

Morning everyone else, hope you are all ok. Chatting is keeping me sane, I think  xxx


----------



## ANGELA29A

D MARIA, we are going to buy something to remember our lost embies, either something associated with fairies for garden or indoors, or a rose bush in , not sure yet. we have 2 cherubs which i bought when we miscarried many years ago, find it comforting. 

Finally pains eased after nearly ending up in hospital, as couldnt stand up pain was so bad. 

Been a very emotional day today, time to move on, slowly.....
love to all. xxx


----------



## katie76

Hi all

My first post here from 2ww. Just to say I planted a herb garden for all our blastocysts it included myrtle for love and rosemary for rememberance. Its nice to see something grow and survive, this year at least so far!


----------



## marie57

Katie welcome hun  Your herb garden sounds like a lovely idea,and very useful too.
JenV Thanks for advice on the review appt hun,Think im a bit worried about it really making me want to try again when dh has made it clear he dosnt  Think your counseller is right but feel dh already backed down in going for this tx   and I agreed to 1 go as I stupidly really thought it would work,now I feel its my turn to back down but dont know how to go about it  Have you got your questions ready to ask hun?
Angela-glad your pains are calming down hun,sorry its been such an emotional day for you,hoping tommorow is a little better  
Big    to everyone


----------



## Ems2

Hi Ladies, not been on for a few days - boy this thread is busy  

Welcome Molly - sorry about your BFN  

Jenv - good luck with your sister, i think you're doing the right thing - you can only cope with all this 1 day at a time...

Lorny - welcome, how are you feeling?

Noahsark - good that you are feeling better.  I used DHEA on advice from my fertility nutritionalist, it was meant to improve my egg quality (needed due to my age).  it went ok (some headaches at the start but you can reduce the dose if they don't go away), the problem I had is that it actually increased my testosterone which is actually bad for egg quality - aparently this is a side affect some people see, the DHEA is like the base element of hormone and sometimes it develops into testosterone instead of oestrogen (I think!).  so I had to stop.  the recommendation I had is that its safe to use but get your testosterone checked out after 2/3 months to check all is ok.  If you want to try it you can get it from the US, google DHEA.

Katie - welcome , I love the herb garden idea 

Maria - must be hard when you and your DH differ on what you want.  Have you thought about seeing a councellor? me and my DH did that after our BFN last year and we talked more than we ever have about ttc (my DH is rubbish at speaking his feelings and wasn't really up for going).  maybe it would help to talk about it with someone neutral.

hello and big hugs to everyone else    

AFM - well first week at work over and managed to get through without any breakdowns.  also finally got round to speaking to my mum and also did that without loosing it either so quite impressed with myself.  had plenty of crying to sleep however and still not ready to face my friends who knew about the cycle ....1 day at a time..... also pretty hard as my best friend lives next door and they have a 1yr old - thin walls mean we can hear his every cry / laugh / girgle - its sooooo hard.  AF arrived on Fri and my god it was painful, I had some volterol left over from my EC so took that otherwise just would not have got any sleep - seems to be better now, paracetamol gets rid of it.

take are all xxxxx


----------



## marie57

Hi Ems Yes we are seeing a counsellor hun only seen her once at the moment ,next appt is 2 weeks,not sure if it helped or not yet but I guess its early days.I was feeling quite positive that day and of course it drags all those horrible feelings up again and gave me some other dilemmas  going for my review tommorrow maybe then I can decide my next step,think then I will feel better
Well done getting through work its not easy is it? You feel ok one minute then can have a complete breakdown the next!The info on the DHEA was very interesting I was considering taking that,How did you get testosterone tested? did you ask your clinic or gp?It must be hard for you with the baby next door we had that a couple of years ago but I must admit i did enjoy the feeling of turning over and cuddling up at night when it was crying and thinking to myself at least I havn t got to get up to sort it out!


----------



## Aurora13

Hi Ladies

Just wanted to ask a quick question as a little confused. I had my first cycle of IVF in August on a short protocol and it unfortunately ended in a BFN, so am now waiting for this months af to arrive, but it is 5 days late. I normally start around day 28 or 29 but this is day 33 and still no sign. Is this usual after a short protocol to have the next period go out of whack? Getting a little concerned as know I'm up against time because of low ovarian reserve and had plans to start second IVF in October, but of course need a normal af first! just wondered if anyone else has had a similar thing happen to them, especially as I thought being on a short protocol didin't interfere much with your natural cycle?!


----------



## jen-v

Hi Aurora, sorry about your bfn. We did a long protocol in april, but after our ivf my AF was 3-4 days later than usual for the first 3 months after, then we did FET and so my system is thrown again! Hope I'm still regular when it all settles down - before all the tx I was  very regular. I read on here that it is normal for af to be out of sync for a bit, so I'm not worrying. 

Welcome Katy, hope you are doing OK - sorry about your bfn too

Marie57, noahsark and Ems2 I was wondering about DHEA too, going to ask our consultant this week - although she is generally non- commital about supplements I'm 39 and worried about my eggs. I wish I could employ my own full time fertility expert to make all the decisions for us drugs, tx, supplements, oh, and pick up our drugs, organise exercise and cook fertility-friendly dinners for us too! It is so difficult to stay on top of it all ...  

Hope everyone is OK today. I'm off to acupuncture, my first post bfn, hoping he can get hormones to settle down and lift my spirits. Unfortunately there's a cafe near to acupuncturist that does lovely cakes - not sure I can resist today ... jen-v


----------



## Ems2

Hi Maria / Jen-v - I went to a nutritionlist at zita west clinic in london and they also did my blood test.  I did get my GP to do the first test but he got a bit funny when I asked for a second one.  When I got the DHEA they don't supply it in the UK but its used a lot in the US, I think the site was dhea.com.  I've got an info sheet somewhere, will dig it out to see what they recommend about taking it.

hope everyone is ok xxxx


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## marie57

Hi girls hope you all ok
I had my review appt yesterday and now have descisions to make  I hate decisions!!
It seems the consultant thinks there is a few things he could tweek if we want to do another tx.He feels if I had had a fewmore days of gonal f I may have got more eggs fertilsed with more chance to go for blastocyst.I only had 2 out of the 14 collected.He said as I had a 2 day transfer I was in the lower sucess group They didnt tell me that at the time   He said I responded very well to drugs he was surprised as my fsh is 14.5,so he wants to do the next tx asap I asked about the DHEA he said it wont hurt to try but there is no proof it works and he wouldnt advise I wait the 6 months it really needs to work before next tx   
I also asked about tubal cannulisation and at last someone who didnt treat me as though I am   He does know of the tx and can understand my reasoning that if we decide no more IVF this has to be better than doing nothing at all.He said he could do me a refferal letter  
So now I have to decide and quick as time seems to be running out for me  
DH seems a little bit more pliable on the suject says he just needs to know where the line is going to be drawn!I shall be saying a little  for help in making this descision.


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## DMaria

Hi Girls
I hope you are all doing OK today. I've been AWOL for a few days as I was away at the weekend and work has been crazy from Monday morning until about now! 

Marie57 - that sounds a little bit promising? Maybe it takes a cycle to realise how you may respond, and the last cycle could be thought of as a kind of "trial run" with your DH? I hope you manage to come to a decision together. 

Jen-v - hope your accupuncture helped, and that your meeting with your sister went OK too.  I'm struggling with the cakes aswell - treating myself because I feel sad, then my clothes don't fit so I feel sadder!

Aurora - after my first fresh cycle, AF for the following cycle was quite late - I think I was over 35 days for that cycle? I heard at the time that that was normal. Since my first FET in April my cycles have actually been more regular than they have been in ages! It must have helped somehow!

Hi Ems - hope you're doing OK. I intended telling my parents at the weekend but just couldn't bring it up. However, I ate a big piece of camembert and drank some coffee in front of them, so hoping they'll have realised! Hope you're doing OK otherwise - thanks for the DHEA info, was interesting to hear.

Katie, Angela and all, thanks for the suggestions of how we can remember our embies. I do love gardening, although garden does not reflect that! However, it is quite a windy garden and I would be afraid that if a remembrance plant died I would be devastated! Am considering either artwork or maybe something like pottery for the garden, so I could remember them outside and close to nature.

I hope everyone else is doing OK? 
AFM, still have to make my follow up appointment, but I just wanted to pull myself together first. I think I'm a bit afraid, as our next cycle will be another fresh one. So far, my 3 BFNs have been from the one cycle, or the one "batch" , so I can kind of blame it on that- if I start getting BFNs with another batch I will really start losing hope. So I guess I'm afraid to even go there in a way! But I will...

OK, catch up with you later,
big hugs 
DM xxxxx


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## Swanage

Hi ladies how r u all? Iv been reading daily so I stay up to date with you all? I may be stupid but what is dhea? Iv got my follow up appointment next Wednesday to discuss starting again in October with remaining frosties! Iv had enough thou I think right now, I want a baby so bad but why do we have to do this each time just to do something loads of people do without effort everyday   sorry ladies I know I should be more positive but I don't think I can be. Think u need a giant cheese cake to cheer me up. 
Sorry for a me post   xx


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## marie57

welcome swanage you are so right about the injustice of our situation,just today someone at work told me her daughter is pregnant and has decided to have an abortion as she cant cope   she has a 15 month old already,Why is life so cruel to some  Cant remeber what the DHEA stands for now but its a vitamin supplement that is thought to improve egg quality,being used in us mainly but remains unproven as yet
Hello to everyone else hope you all ok


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## mooo

Hi Ladies

Good to hear some positive stuff going on - amazing support here!  

I'm day 2 of no drugs after BFN. I feel sick and can't face eating, and no sign of AF yet,  no AF type pains (well, had a little AF pain about d 8/9 after fet). I expected AF to arrive within a day of OTD. Anyone else feeling like this.
I just feel that until AF, I can't think about moving on and feeling sick is just rubbing in the fact that I had a BFN. 

mooo
x


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## DMaria

Hi Mooo, welcome to the thread - sorry to see you here. My AF took a couple of days to arrive after I stopped the meds. Were you on crinone? I found that some crinone "deposits"  were still around inside, I suspected that was still releasing progesterone and delayed AF.

Probably worth doing another test if AF doesn't arrive after a few days? Could be an amazing surprise, but also if BFN again it could help to move on. I felt exactly the same though, just wanted AF here and over with, and as you say, just couldn't look ahead in any way until that happened.

This is a nice supportive thread though - although it's called "negative cycle chat" it's not a negative thread!

Marie and Swanage - agreed it is desperately unfair - Marie I probably would have found it difficult not to scream if I heard a workmate saying that! Swanage, it is really difficult to keep up the motivation to go through so much for tx. If I was guaranteed that it would work in the end, it would be so much easier to get the strength, but it's very difficult to protect yourself and your life through all of the IF turmoil. I hope you get a good plan going with your frosties, it's nice to have them waiting for you.

Big   for everyone

DMaria


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## jen-v

Mooo   I agree it helps to get af out of the way, I guess until then a part of us is still hoping, despite all the science! Hope you feel better today

Swanage   hope your review goes well. it might help you feel more positive maybe? Er - have you been watching great brit bakeoff? I've been thinking about cheescake too since that eposide - yum!    

Marie57 Its so hard to hear news like that. I find I can't bear seeing parents ignoring their little kids, or shouting at them - I want to tell them how lucky they are and to cherish their kids, but I guess their situation is just so different from mine and I can't really put myself in their shoes   Good luck with your tx decision, I really feel for you, I don't know what I'd do if DP decided he didn't want more tx - I suspect in some ways he's mainly doing it for me, and will probably have a limit too. In a way, I can understand where reluctant husbands are coming from - tx is just such a financial, emotional and physical disaster area, and men maybe often lack the overwhelming longing we feel for a baby that outweighs all that sensible stuff for us - but its a longing that can't easily be ignored! 

Ems I'm going to do more reading about DHEA - I've found some threads on ff. Did u have to stop with the testosterone problem?
I think I'd go for it if I was sure it couldn't do any harm! I feel like I have just so much research to do - so far we've just put ourselves in consultant's hands. I do still really trust them, we are very lucky with our clinic, but want to feel a bit less powerless about the whole IF journey. 

DMaria I've just had my review apptment - our consultant is lovely and positive, and I got through it without being tearful and emotional like last time! Still have billions of questions to ask, but we both really felt cheered and more hopeful afterwards about having another go - we're facing a fresh cycle too   but you are right, this will be a 'fresh batch' - that should be a good thing! We were told first 3 fresh cycles all had same chance of success, so no need to be losing hope just yet   

 to all other bfn ladies too, whether  posting or just reading, hope we all manage to find something to make us smile today xxx


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## jen-v

PS on the cake theme, I made a healthy no-sugar fruit cake! its not bad, actually, although could do with some cream...


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## Hannah10

Hi ladies - I am so upset to be typing this, I got a call from the clinic today from our first IVF cycle and none of our 2 eggs have fertilised - my heart is so heavy xx


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## jen-v

Hannah10 I'm so sorry


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## DMaria

Oh Hannah, that is absolutely devastating. I'm so sorry to hear that. I can see from your profile that there is no obvious reason at the moment. Was it IVF or ICSI that you tried?

Big hugs  
DMaria xxxx


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## mooo

Hannah, sending big hugs.  it's so hard.


dMaria and jen-v talking through on phone with nurse she said can take up to 2 weeks for AF. So wish AF come soon  . 
Waiting on call from consultant tomorrow to see if 'in principle' we can have a 2nd fresh cycle in Dec / Jan.   

Well at least it's sunny here and not working tomorrow (not that I'm actually getting on with a lot today).

So much for your sugar free cake Jen, I made some peanut butter fudge a couple of days ago (wait was driving me nuts - I never do 'baking') - try the sophie Dahl peanut butter fudge on bbc website. it's wicked. But today, feeling so fed up even a piece of that didn't taste so great. 
Funny how some of us want to comfort eat and some just don't want to eat. At least the peroni i had last night tasted good.

Beginning to realise that you ladies are better placed than my friends to get through this - it's not easy to understand if you've not been through yourself. 

Mooox


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## emmieflo

Hi got a BFN today, was our first cycle, keep crying this afternoon, wish could be braver. still not had period, and clinic said to test again Sunday to be sure, but haven't got any hopes for this cycle. I will try again but some of the drugs made me feel so ill, I'm trying to think of happy things but it's so hard. lots of love to all of you xxx


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## marie57

Hannah10 so sorry for you my lovely   Ive spoken to you before on the other thread,Its just so hard to understand you look for something to blame and there isnt anything,there are just no answers as to why but you are still young hun your time must come   
Emmieflo and moo- there are no words I can say to take away your pain hun just know we have all been there and when I got my BFN I told my dh Im never going to get over this and feel happiness again.But as the days have passed I have begun to feel better and had some happy moments,The lovely ladies on here have really helped,just keep talking to us hunx
Jenv-Glad you felt more positive about your review and I will have everything crossedfor your next go,Im going to have a look at that dhea too hun my consultant said it cant harm but really needs 6 months to be effective!
Oh and moo thanks for that link on peanut butter fudge sounds delish must have a go at thatx


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## emmieflo

Marie 57, thank you, what you said did really help. 
It is just so hard isn't it, I am 47 now, so more like a granny really, I spent so long in my 20s and 30's being upset about not having children that I didn't think I could cry any more about it. I  met (and married once) the wrong men, who wouldn't have been nice fathers. I didn't meet my man until I was 44, and he would be such a lovely dad. We used donor eggs, and I thought it was just a magical bonus to have another chance, when really I had resigned myself to being a godmother for my sister and friends. It feels like I turned myself inside out wondering if I was being selfish at my age, (nearly sent my DH mad too!) I thought I would cope so much better if it didn't work, as it feels like I spent years grieving for babies that I didn't have. We will try again, but feel really panicked as we haven't got long left. Trying to think of happy things, but all the sadness creeps up on me.
This site is just so lovely and supportive, it is so cruel that there are so many lovely ladies all suffering. The friends I have told, have mainly been supportive, but I suppose they don't truly understand. I was signed off sick for 2 weeks as the treatment made me so sick towards the end. One of my friends said if I try again what about work, if it makes me ill again! and what will people think at my age!(she has never wanted children) For some reason that makes me cry even more, I'd happily throw up for months if it worked. I suppose people don't understand if they haven't been through it, but I think I'll avoid her for a while. I feel like shutting myself away, but suppose it is early days at the moment.
sorry about the wallow, and lots of love to everyone xxx


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## jen-v

Emmieflo   so sorry about your bfn - its just the worst thing - not just the heartbreak of the bfn itself, but what it represents about our fears, regrets etc etc. I'm glad you are trying again, and have a lovely OH. PS you are NOT like a granny!!! the world is full of mums in their 40s these days, people don't really bat an eyelid. 

Mooo - how are you doing today? Your fudge sounds absolutely lovely mmmm

     to everyone who's having a hard day

AFM I'm doing well, feeling positive today, and managing to think about other things some of the time which is progress as I'd been really struggling to focus at work   xxx


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## DMaria

Hi girls,
Sorry if this is messy, it's from my phone on the train. Emmieflo sorry to hear your news sweetheart, it's just so sad. At least, you are with the man you want to have a family with, that's always a wonderful thing in itself. I agree with Jen-v, lots of mothers in their 40s for all kinds of reasons. 

Mooo and Jen-v, peanut butter fudge and sugar free cake! I would probably have the sugar free cake then reward myself for being 'good' with some peanut butter fudge! Jen, delighted to hear your review appt went well. I'm having slightly the opposite problem in that work this week has been crazy, so I can't focus on when I'd like to book my review! DH and I both trying to get a bit healthy and lose our IVF tummies- he acquired one also in sympathy! Mooo, I agree that the girls here often understand better than other friends what we're going through- I'm really grateful for that. 

Hope everyone else is doing OK- hi Marie57

Have a good weekend, being nice and gentle with yourselves as we all deserve. 
Big hugs
DMaria xxxx


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## cymbeline

Dear Emmieflo,
                        I read your post earlier today and my heart did go out to you. Please don't think you are too old ( actually the bit about being a granny made me laugh! ). The desire to have a baby is so strong - we actually can't control it ourselves and that's why it is so hard. My parents and sister don't know as they think I am too old. I think you have a few more years and a few more go's, and as for that colleague at work then she really has no feeling - someone said something similar to me when I went for my very 1st appt, and whilst I love my job, there is more to life than work - this was also from a female colleague who doesn't want children. It is so hard when you get the BFN - I thought I'd be better as I am a fairly rational person and statistically I knew it probably wouldn't work but like you with the donor eggs, I thought it was a second chance. I thought I had kept myself fairly distanced from it but that Saturday 2 weeks ago was such an awful day of grief and I'm trying to think now - it was a dummy run( rather an expensive one!) and its shown me how much I do want it - even though I knew that anyway. I cried so much for 3-4 days and I get upset when I come to the site now in a collective kind of way, but it does get a little easier, and I've changed my signature with the new date of next time. My one lovely "in the know" colleague at work who knew the actual treatment dates passed me a piece of paper that says:

'When the world says "Give up..." 
Hope whispers ' Try one more time'

It's by my bed and I just think yes I will, and as one of the girls on here said "This wasn't your time but it will come"

Doesn't make it better but if you are trying to rationalise it all as I am.

Anyway, I hope you are ok and the weekend isn't too bad. 

Take care xx


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## aussieinengland

Hello all my lovelies.  This is such a great thread, that I could not help posting.  I found FF so wonderful during this whole process that it is hard to cut the apron strings and let go of that support.  I got my BFN yesterday, no frosties from this cycle.  This is our second BFN from fresh we had also had a failed FET, plus an abandoned cycle in the past.  I feel a bit lost today, however my husband took the pm off work yesterday and we did a little pub crawl and had an amazing dinner, and just blew off the cobwebs.  Probably not the smartest move as paying for it today but we also talked loads. 


We have our consultation in a few weeks time, then we are going to look at starting treatment again early next year.  We feel we are not r eady to stop yet.  


I will read back so I can write some personals later...


Thank you so much for letting me join and thank god there is a thread like this.
    
AIE


PS Noahsark - I love love that quote...  Beautiful xx


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## emmieflo

Noahsark, Jen-V DMaria and Marie57, thank you so much for your lovely replies, when you are all going through so much yourselves. It means so much to have support from such lovely ladies, I wish I could give you all a hug. 
Noahsark, thank you, that is such a lovely saying from your colleague, I have copied it and put it in my bedside cabinet. I like the thought of a dummy run, as I read somewhere that all the treatment can shock the body so much it can't cope with everything at first. Hopefully our bodies will get used to being 'drugged' another time. I'm so sorry you've had stupid insensitive comments as well, especially before your first appointment. You are right, the desire for a baby is so strong it overtakes you, I was the same and told myself it probably wouldn't work and tried to prepare myself, but I suppose grief is a funny thing isn't it. I hope you are ok and am glad things are slightly easier.
aussie-in-england, I'm so sorry, it's just so hard isn't it. This is such a supportive thread, and helps to make you feel a little less alone. I keep holding on to that lovely saying from noahsark.

lots of love to everyone xxx


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## marie57

Aussiein England so sorry to hear of your BFN hun as ive said before there really are no words to make it feel better just time and support from those who know how it feels hun  And a pub crawl great idea  
Emmieflo-Have to have a word with you about this granny thing!!I work as a district nurse in a health clinic obviously there are other clinics going on there, baby clinic being one(not been easy for me there recently)but last week we had a lady come in with beautiful twins born through IVF and she is 58 hun,Everybody is so delighted for her and I have to say she looks nothing like a granny,better turned out than most of the younger mums in fact! And definately a lot calmer and taking the time to enjoy her new role.So dont worry about age hun 40 is the new 30!!  Thats what I keep telling myself as I will be there next year.
Noahsark glad you feeling a bit better now hun,it sounds as though you have yourself a good friend therex
Dmaria i think focusing on getting  healthy is a good idea,gives us somthing to work towards we all need that  
JenV think you are soo right about the fear and regrets the bfn represents I was beggining to think maybe more tx is not the way forward for us and I should just look at getting tubes unblocked and see (but ive been warned not to leave it to long as FSH creeping up )then I had to explain yesterday to a friend that didnt know about my neg outcome and thats left me feeling like I might regret not doing tx again.My mind changes all the time thats what bothers me  
Hannah10, Moo,Swanage,Ems2 Aurora13 hope you all ok and I havnt missed anyone.Marie


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## emmieflo

Marie57, thank you, and that is a lovely story about the lady with the twins. 
Bless your heart, it must be hard with the baby clinic at work. I am changing my mind a lot about what best to do, as well. I'm beginning to wonder if it is the affects of all those drugs, it's just horrible not knowing what to do for the best.  
I tried one more pregnancy test as the clinic suggested, (I still haven't had my AF) it was negative again as I expected, so I'm going to have a large wine and some chocolate.

lots of love to everyone xxx


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## DMaria

Hello girls,
AussieinEngland so so sorry to hear about your BFN, you're very welcome to the thread - your evening with your husband sounds lovely. It's so easy to get wrapped up in all the therapy isn't it? And almost forget to keep some focus on DHs and our relationships. I'm also hoping to try again early in the new year. Want to feel a bit human again before then though, so right now am sitting with a glass of wine in front of me! (Only 1 glass - we can make a bottle last for about a week these days!!!!) 
Emmieflo - I hope you're enjoying your wine and chocolate too!Sorry to hear about the second neg test, and hope you can get AF out of the way soon. 
Noah's ark, thanks for the message, I also treated my first fresh cycle as a trial run. However, you can't have a trial run of the same thing twice so I'm a little nervous about arranging my next fresh cycle, as I'm not good at getting my hopes up if there's a possibility of being let down.
Marie57 - you poor thing, it must be so so hard to decide what to do next. Can you go ahead and be getting the tubes unblocked while you're "thinking about it"? Would you have to wait a certain length of time after that procedure before you could do another IVF cycle or could you be planning the next IVF (if that's what you want) at the same time?  

Afm, spent this afternoon with my (single) sister first, which was nice as haven't caught up in a while, and it's nice a distraction hearing about boyfriend (or lack thereof) issues instead of baby issues!  Then I met a friend of mine who is 8 months pg with her little son who is 15 months old. Our friendship really suffered when her son was born as both of us felt too awkward to contact the other (she did have IF issues in the past, and therefore understood a bit of what I was going through). So it was nice to catch up, play in the playground etc. Her son was so gorgeous, and really tugged at my heartstrings, I got a lovely cuddle off him when we left. However, a 15 month old is a lot of hard work, and I didn't mind toooo much being able to relax at home afterwards! I would so love if I was in her situation though, but it was nice to share some time together and rescue our friendship - I think she was also relishing the opportunity for some adult conversation!

So, Monday round again, I hope all you other lovely ladies are doing OK. 

Love and hugs
DM xxx


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## marie57

evening Ladies
Emmiflo hope you feeling a little better today hun  And you too Aussie  Sounds like we all doing the same tonight with the vino I just finished myself a large glass too  
Dmaria-sounds like you have had a busy weekend hun,enjoy that well deserved wine  It strange how the jealousy pangs attack isnt it? I find im fine with toddlers and older children but its the pregnancy and newborns that do it to me a part of me wonders if I will always feel like that,think that worries DH too  
Afm still struggling with my decision,think im scared to make it really as I feel there is no going back then,ive always been rubbish at making decisions as anyone who has ever been shopping with me will vouch  
Thing is I know neither option is straightforward im gonna have a fight on my hands to get the op and I really dont know if im strong enough for that!Take care everyone


----------



## irish jo

Hello lovely ladies 

i had a quick read of this thread and wondered if i could join you all 
i have to say that this website has been a god send and i only wish i had found it when i was doing my first 2 cycles as i didnt feel as if i had much support from people who really knew how hard it was 
well i did my test on thursday 22 and it was a BFN (lol i suppose i wouldnt be on this thread if it was a BFP) to say i was gutted was an understatement well i think i was more numb than anything else and my poor DH was so so upset you see both of us had been so so positive the whole way thru and we really felt that this was our time and now i suppose we are so disalousioned and what was even harder this time round is that i was told to go and do a HCG blood test and when i went to do that on thur i was told that the results would not be in until monday (omg that was a horrible weekend) i knew it was over but still had to stay on meds but there was always that little glimer of hope but no this morning i called the doc and she said no that it was negative (wham bam kick in the teeth again) i think it is really hard when someone tells you and they dont seem to have any feeling it was really clinical.

but anyway its onwards and upwards ladies when your at the bottom the only way is up so thats a positive i suppose the only other thing that i hate about this whole treatment is that you have the upset that it didnt work and then you have to go thru wicked witch coming the dreadded AF.

something that was also very hard to deal with this weekend was my 15 yr old troubled little cousin was over with me (i was trying to sort her out) was in the middle of a pregnancy scare and i gave her a test to do and she was delighted to see she was not pregnant i was happy that she was not pregnant but it was also hard for me the thoughts that she could be and that she didnt want to be.

sometimes i really think that there is no justice in the world when there are people like us who go to the ends of the earth to have kids and then there are people who dont want them having them its just not really fair is it.

anyway i think i have ranted on enough for one post im going to go and have a good read of the thread and get up to date with everyone and hope that this thread like all the others will be of great support to each other 

Love and light and     to everyone 

xxxx

Jo


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## marie57

Welcome Irish Jo   So sorry for your pain hun its just so awful and unfair.It must have been a really hard situation for you with your cousin,thank goodness she wasnt pregnant though at that age she wouldnt understand how precious each child is but you would that would have been extremely difficult.I had someone last week tell me at work her daughter was going to have an abortion at 12 weeks,as she couldnt cope as she has a young baby I felt like screaming use some contraception then!! But then I thought this lady dosnt know what im going through and its not my place to judge.Im sure you will find the ladies very supportive on here I know I have  
Hope everyone is ok we all a bit quiet tonight unusual for us


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## caro73

Hello ladies,

I'm new to this site. I just got a BFN today, in what was my 3rd IVF. I'm exhausted, i feel like i've been runover. I don't want to cry anymore. This has to be one of the lowest points in my life, i just don't know what to do next? 
My heart goes out to all of you wonderful women who feel the same pain i'm feeling right now.

take care,
Caroline x


----------



## marie57

Carol 73 so sorry to hear your sad news hun  This journey is so hard and something none of us should have to endure I guess thats what makes us feel so angry,its all so unfair  Just hope you can take some comfort in knowing you are not alone,take some time out for yourself before deciding next step,Enjoy the stuff you couldnt if it had worked,Big glass of wine,unhealthy food,and peanut butter!!Think thats what most of us have been doing!!Take care hun


----------



## mooo

Hello wonderful ladies. Lots of wine was drunk last weekend it seems.

Hello to Caro IrishJo and Aussie     you're definitely going to be understood here.

Hope everyone else is getting through ok.

I'm waiting for the AMH blood test, which apparently takes weeks to get the result   but in principle, the consultant is supporting us going ahead with a fresh cycle of ICSI - DH and I decided we'll see what AMH level looks like before we definitely decide, so it's a bit of limbo.
Thought the limbo would be over after this FET, but we so wanted another sibling that we just were floored by the result. Maybe naive, but we just didn't see it coming .

Have a friend who has had 2 m/c , but now has 5 children. After losing our embie, i can't even start to imagine her grief after being preg for 10 weeks. 

The grief is still hitting me hard now and then, but then it subsides and life seems bright again. 

Sending you all mlots of   for a better day tomorrow.

Mooo
x


----------



## irish jo

hey ladies 

you know when you think you are doing ok and you are coming to terms with the failure of not having a sucessfull tx and i know that it is up and down all the time for the first couple of weeks i think it just really hit me there now when i went onto my face book and saw that a girl that i know (and i know that she had a tough time ttc) announces that she is due on the 5th april and it just hit me why is that not me sometimes it really just is not fair why does it have to be so bloody hard 
i am happy for her but i think that sometimes life throws you oranges and all you get is lemons and i dont want to be bitter but you know its time i had some luck and that we all here had some luck and have our dreams come true.

sorry for the rant i really had to get it off my chest and this is the only place that i can really say how i feel in one lump with out an interuption of it will be ok, or it will work next time (its always it will work next time!)

sorry ladies all we can do is hope and pray that it will work 

love and light to all


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## Swanage

hi irish jo your right its hard to see others succeed! but thats what were all here for, its a place to rant n rave as much as you like because we understand! 

I feel i am just about getting back to normal now (and just about fitting in my clothes again) we had an appointment with h&e yesterday and were going to start again next month on a medicated fet.... fingers crossed i remain strong for this as think i had a few break downs last time   

Hope your all well sending big   to everyone love swanage xx


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## emmieflo

Irish Jo, I know what you mean, this is a lovely supportive thread and really helps to get things off your chest. It doesn't really help when people say it will work next time, and it does seem life throws an awful lot of rubbish. My BNF was the same day as yours, and the last few days I just feel so tired and sad, I suppose we have just all got to be nice to ourselves, and for all those well meaning people who don't understand, I'm trying to remember all the lovely ladies on here who know exactly how it feels.
I'm so sorry Caro57 I hope things are getting a little easier for you.
Marie57, it is the newborns that get me too, it's a bit like a physical pain when I see them at the moment, and pregnant ladies. Even DH, (who normally doesn't notice very much at all) said there seems to be a lot of pregnant women around.
Dmaria glad you had a nice time with your sister and friend, I saw a friend with 2 young boys and like you I would love to be in the same boat, but was pretty tired by the end of the afternoon.
Noahsark, Jen V, aussie , moo, swanage, and Hannah I hope you are all ok and feeling a little better, and lots of love to everyone.

We went to Barcelona at the beginning of the week, just for one night, as I read about a clinic with a high success rate there. We both had some time off and I don't know when we'll have another opportunity to go. I couldn't believe we could get an appointment just like that, I think I was a bit in denial re BNF and was desperately trying to make it better. I got my AF on the morning we went, it was so heavy and really reminded me things had failed! The doctors and nurses were just SO lovely, and I couldn't believe how thorough they were compared to the clinic we went to before. In England the only time a doctor ever looked at my womb was for the transfer! The doctor in Spain really scanned it (even though I had AF, I was so apologetic, but she said it didn't matter at all) It turns out I have a fibroid right where they place the embryos. The Spanish doctor discussed it with another doctor and they both agree it wouldn't work until I had the fibroid removed. I'm worried to death how much that will cost, as I really can't see me getting it on the NHS. I have some sort of health care at work, but I have to wait and see if they will cover that as I'm not at all sure they will. I just feel so sad and angry that the clinic here put me all through that when they must have known there was practically no chance of it working. I know that even if I get the fibroid removed there is no guarantee, but at least I'd have a bit more of a chance.
Does anyone know if coming off the medication makes you really tired, I just feel like I could sleep for ever at the moment!! Also I seem to want to eat anything sweet I can get my hands on, normally if I'm down I don't want food, but I seem to have gone the other way. I guess I better keep out of the chocolate and cake aisle in Tesco for a while.

Lots of love to eveybody xxx


----------



## cruicky2

Emmieflo, so sorry to hear your news... it really is so hard. And to go through the frustration of knowing that the drs didn't alert you to a problem that must have been easily identifiable!!!! 
Just out of curiosity, which clinic was it in Bcna I have just had treatment in Bcna and could swear you were talking about my clinic!
Cruicky xxx


----------



## emmieflo

Hi Cruicky, It was clinic Eugin, and I just couldn't believe the difference between them and the english clinic. I even had a mamogram and ECG. It so good to hear about someone else having treatment in Bcna as I have only ever read reviews about it before. Were you impressed with them too?
I wish I had gone to them in the first place, but suppose I can't change things, just glad I,ve found them now. 
Hope you are ok
Emmieflo xxx


----------



## cruicky2

Emmieflo - I was at BcnIvf, they were just like what you described. So thorough, so available, so kind. 

To everyone else on this thread, I am sorry, sorry it didn't work, sorry for what you have gone through, and for what you are still going through. 
I keep telling myself that one way or another we will come out of this stronger, but then, when I see yet another heavily pregnant woman walking towards me or see a friend pregnant and find out she got pregnant the very month she got married, I can't help but feel nauseous and soo low that I wonder whether I will ever feel any different... 

Love and strength to you all, 
Cruicky xxx


----------



## emmieflo

Cruicky, I'm so sorry, it is so hard, It does hurt so much when there seems to be so many pregnant ladies about. This thread is so supportive with so many lovely ladies all understanding what you are going through, and helps you to feel a little less alone xxx


----------



## Madasatruck

Cruicky..you touched a nerve there...today I was told by my work mate she was off to her 12 weeks scan having got pregnant on her wedding night 1st attempt! Lovely girl and really genuinely pleased for her but for some reason it has knocked me backwards again. Completely out of the blue, my BFN was 2 months ago! Think it's because I will share an office with her whilst she blossoms...and that might be too much for me 

Emmieflo.. My hospital missed my fibroid in my first scan but I was unwell weeks later and my GP did ultrasound and found it. I then had to tell hospital at my next IVF appointment. Was just about to start ICSI treatment so we decided to go ahead due to my age. It was BFN so I am now 6 weeks away from surgery in the hope we can try again in 6 months with a better chance of it working. I am getting op on NHS even though my IVF was privately funded so get to your GP....try not to concentrate on wanting it out for baby making,  tell them of symptoms too as I'm not sure NHS will fund it purely for fertility issues..although I may be wrong?? Come on over to Fibroid threads....lovely girls there all going through the same as you.


----------



## Onthego69

Hi Ladies,

Can I join you? This seems like the right place for chatting about our experiences, getting and giving support. 

I had ED in Cyprus on 15th September, got BFP on hpts (still getting BFP...), but beta hcg shows it's 'not a viable pregnancy' as levels are constant at the moment, so have stopped all of the meds and just waiting for AF. It was my first attempt with egg donation, was cautiously (naively??) optimistic, but it wasn't to be  I knew I couldn't get lucky on my first attempt! I have a GP appt on Wednesday. Will ask him if he is willing to do level 1 immunes. As I can't just pop on a plane to chat to the folk at the clinic where I was treated, I feel a little out on a limb at the moment, so apart from the GP not sure of my next step yet.

I haven't had a chance this week to take time out and really think about what's happened.  I have filled my week with work and meeting up with friends who know nothing of the tx.  In some ways it has helped, but I think I am delaying the inevitable and I should take a couple of days out.

After reading the posts on here, I know it's normal to feel sad and have ups and downs, it's still early days.

emmieflo - I also feel like stuffing my face just now, and normally when I am down I can't eat a thing.  Maybe it's what happens coming off of the meds?  I lost my appetite on my progynova, found it hard to motivate myself to eat properly so that I could take all of my supplements!

I am so sorry for all of the other BFNs on here. Madasatruck, Cruicky, Irishjo, Emmieflo, caro73, Dmaria, aussieinengland, Swanage, Moo  

 noasark, thanks for your pms 

M xx


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## mooo

Hello everyone

misha69   so sorry to hear your news, it's hard to accept a BFN , and must be so much harder when those nasty sticks give you such a contradiction. I felt a bit better when got AF as it gave some closure.

Cruiky2, I know what you mean about being stronger. My DH and I have been closer than in a while over the last week or so, just want to hold onto him to make the pain go away. 

Irish Jo, agreed, you def need a place to rant and be completely understood - it's the newborns that get me, it breaks me up to think I might not hold my own newborn again. 

I've had a better couple of days but coming to terms with my DDs getting older so quickly with starting school this month etc - think the emotion of FET held off the emotion of seeing them start school.
Had a [email protected] phone call from my 'best' friend who has been increasingly distancing herself from me the last couple of years. She has been so so so supportive in the past, but this time it seemed too much to call or even text to see if I was ok, just a response to my text saying it hadn't worked (she was on hols), then called yesterday (after being home from hols for 5 days) and just told me I should be glad to have my DDs. She really doesn't get that this was a very very much wanted baby to us, and what might be an embryo to her was our baby, and we are grieving the loss. Maybe I'm being hard on her, she doesn't have children (never ever wanted them).

Having some counselling today - will be hard as first time back at the clinic , knowing none of our frosties are there now. Still waiting for AMH blood result, but that will be another 2 weeks or so . 
It's just one hurdle after another isn't it?

hope everyone has an ok weekend, do something nice in the sunshine to make us all feel better.

mooox


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## Onthego69

mooo    sometimes friends can be insensitive, without even realising it, although she was very harsh.  I don't think they realise how much we invest in the whole process and how much we grieve for the lost embies  , whether we have children already or not.

Take care.

M xx


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## jen-v

Hello ladies, I've not been on for a bit, but have been reading everyone's posts and sending 

misha69 and caro73, irishjo and aussieinengland welcome but so sorry about your reason for being here  

Mooo sorry about your friend, you must feel really let down    I've kind of hibernated from my friends - on the basis that if I didn't expect anything, then I wouldn't be disappointed. It's been a bit lonely, though!

Madasatruck and cruicky I'm so thankful I don't have lots of pg bumps around me in my daily life, but I've found I'm fine with strangers' bumps in the street or supermarket etc - and it actually really encourages me if they look like they are older than me!! It was hard seeing my pg little sister, but she was just so careful not to talk about her baby, and I feel a bit guilty now as I'd really like to be able to be excited with her, but I guess its the best I can do for now, and I think she understands.

Well, I'm a month on from bfn and feel pretty much recovered, apart from the occasional wobble that comes from nowhere - I know I'm lucky as not everyone feels better so quickly. I've sent myself into overdrive organizing things for next time, seeing drs, changing our eating, reviewing supplements, starting a proper diet (1st time ever!), new yoga, research into tx .... I think all this may have been a coping strategy!   The sun this week has been lovely - sitting in the garden and going for walks has really lifted my mood. 

Emmiflo I'm interested in what you say about clinics abroad. We have been treated with kindness and care by my clinic here, and my consultant has been really great, but I can't help worrying I've missed something obvious. I will look like a real hypochondriac if I go to my clinic or GP with a list of lots more tests i want to have and god knows I don't want to find any more problems! its just that I think it will be so unbearable if we go through all the trauma of failed tx again only to discover some physical, hormonal or infection reason that means it could never have worked - I'd really rather spend the money now to rule things out, but I sense that in the UK they avoid much testing / investigation until you have had multiple failures - and I can't bear to wait for that. I also worry we never really found out much about why we couldn't get pg naturally, kind of went straight to ivf, and now I'm thinking I want to make the most of ttc naturally in between cycles, and want to know if my tubes, uterus etc are OK, but don't know where to start.  

Hope everyone's doing OK today,   for anyone struggling - if I'm anything to go by, it does get better! jen-v xxx


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## marie57

Hiya girls 
hope everyone has found time to enjoy a bit of sunshine all that vitD has to do us good   
Jen V glad your on the up hun,we are about the same time since our BFN and I agree with you it is getting easier although im expecting af this weekend and my pmt symptoms seem to be a bit more exagerated than normal,having awful night sweats (wondering if thats my age causing that!)
Moo hope your counselling went ok I went today too found it very draining dh and I going together,at least its helping us to talk over things and hopefully come to a decision over the way forward.As for your friend she sounds a bit full of herself but I think if people have not gone through it they really cant understand.
Misha69 It must be such a hard situation for you esp with your clinic not being in easy reach,how long have you been waiting for af? is it too early to scan you? You will find lots of support here hun please keep us posted try to take some time out over the weekend  
Cruicky2 so sorry you are feeling low at the moment sending lots of   to you
Emmieflo it sounds as though you are getting everything sorted I think thats great as it puts you in forward thinking and positive mode,well done hun Its what we all need.Im sure we will all be much stronger people for what we have been through and not take life for granted.Love to all Maria xx


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## jen-v

Hi Maria, I have xtra pmt as well, I think this happened after my last tx too, and I think its just because hormones are still all over the place. I know hormones can mess with body temp, so I bet thats whats going on with your night sweats   I was secretly really hoping I'd be one of those lucky, lucky people who get pg right after ivf, but I think on the basis of the grumpiness not this time ....
What a lovely day though - I'm off to lounge with a decaf & book in the garden. At least its ok to sunbathe now tx over, and its very nice to be wearing a summer dress in October!


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## marie57

Hi jen thanks for your post at least I know im not alone suffering extra pmt you kind of think the drugs must be gone by now dont you? but I guess not.You are not the only one hoping you might be 1 of the lucky ones  but feel so premenstral think thats a distant pipe dream!!Enjoy your relaxation in the garden im off to clean out 4 gerbil cages now!!


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## emmieflo

marie57 and Jen-V, sweethearts, sorry to hear the dreaded AF making you suffer, I bet the hot flushes are from the drugs still messing up the body. I've got bloody cystitis now, think the drugs did that too. Marie 57 I think you're right, it will make us stronger and more appreciative, it's really making me think how fragile it all is. I hope you get to enjoy the sun when you've cleaned out your little furry friends. Jen-V reading is my lifeline at the moment, it's the only time I stop thinking about everything, I hope you are relaxing too.
Moo love, I'm so sorry about your insensitive friend, I have a similar friend, she doesn't want children and just doesn't get it. It doesn't matter that you have children, you wanted this one, and when friends aren't supportive it makes it so much harder, I guess she doesn't have a clue how vulnerable you're feeling at the moment. 
Mishsa69, I'm so sorry you've had such an awful time with contradicting results, you poor love that must have made it so much harder. The progynova did for me too, I could hardly eat a thing on that stuff, I think you're right the need to eat loads now must be a reaction. 
Madasatruck, bless you honey that is hard, I can completely understand that news would set you back. A girl I work closely with had a miscarriage a few months ago, and I know she's trying again, I'd be so pleased for her, but I know I would crumple inside. Thank you for telling me about the fibroid site, It's such a blow isn't it, it's just waiting yet again.
Jen-V, I think I was just raving about Barcelona as it was so different to here. The medical staff were nice here, but in hindsight I'm so shocked they didn't check my womb etc at all. It seems that my clinic here just did basic checks to cover themselves and make sure we didn't have aids etc. The checks they did in Barcelona were the normal chlamydia, aids hepatitis and then they also checked my liver and kidney functions and for anaemia and I had an ECG and mamogram. The doctor spent ages scanning my womb, and it just seemed they were genuinely trying to ensure I would have the best chance possible.
Swanage, IrishJo, Cruicky, Caro73, Dmaria, Noahsark, aussieinengland and Hannah, Aurora13 and Ems 2 and I'm so so sorry if I've missed anybody, thinking of you all lovely ladies

lots of love to everybody xxx


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## cymbeline

Hi Maria,
            I just wanted to say that I have also had the most awful hot flushes and night sweats over the last two weeks - I was also wondering if all the drugs had sent me into a sudden menopause - just to add salt to the wound. I did wonder if it was the hot weather but actually I have had to for 2 weeks and in the day too. I feel clammy the whole time and it's a most unpleasant feeling - tho I don't look flushed or red. I did google it wrt menopause and it does say the drop in oestrogen can cause it. I an hoping it's just a withdrawal from all the hormones we were on.

With respect to bumps I hate it but what I hate more is the feeling of jealousy and horribleness in me.For me I can be fine at work or with women Idon't know, but its my friends' I find difficult. I feel so uncharitable. 

Misha 69 - a coincidence about the Masters!

Love to all
xx


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## katben

Hi all, please may I join you? Our first cycle of IVF has just ended in a BFN. Tested yesterday, and the test was faulty so tested again yesterday afternoon and thsi morning - both BFN. Don't feel too bad right now, as bled quite alot during the week, I think I did my crying and grieving then, and the tests just confirmed what I already knew. People keep clutching at straws for me, and I know they're trying to help, but I just need to move on now.

I have been having awful night sweats too, but I just put that down to the hot weather, didn't realise it could be an after effect of the hormone treatments!

Hope everyone is doing ok xxxx


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## cymbeline

Hi Katben,
              I just wanted to say -you poor thing - it's such a horrible upsetting and devastating time. I was having another night flush last nite and went on FF in the early hours - reading everyone's experiences is reassuring in some strange way. It's three weeks on from that most horrible weekend that I will never forget, and it does get a little better - I know I am luckier than most. I have found focussing on the next treatment gives me something to aim for. I think you have to let yourself grieve for all those hopes we had, and realising no-one else can begin to understand apart from women in the same situation.

I feel pleased I've nort cried this week, but just going to Harvest festival and I know the environment will set me off - maybe I can justify my dark sunglasses in this weather!

Take care and thinking of you.  

xx


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## katben

Hey Noahsark,
Thanks for your lovely message..sending my warmest thoughts to you... you will be fine in your sunglasses!! During the week I felt so lost, so much of a failure..but through it all there was just that tiny bit of hope that when it got to my OTD everything would be okay. I don't know whether that helped or not, but I couldn't just give up all hope, just in case. But I have to say..apart from my wobbly moments, I am feeling okay. I think it would be different if it was my last chance, but I know that I can try again! x


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## Songbird80

It's a bfn for me today. I'm so so gutted. I really thought this time it might work, but now just feel so let down. I've got 4 frosties left but debating whether to do another fresh cycle instead (my darling sister has offered to donate again whenever I want)... Just don't know whether there is something wrong that needs fixing before it will work or whether ive just been unlucky sp far. Argh... Questions questions...

Sorry for the me post, just feel so fed up xxxx


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## emmieflo

Songbird and Katben  I'm so sorry, it's so hard. This is a lovely supportive thread and helps you to feel a little less alone, everyone on here really understands, xx

Noahsark, I read these posts in the early hours when I can't sleep, they do help, I'm a bit addicted to this site at the moment! I hope the harvest festival was ok, and I'm sure you'll be a bit protected in your sunglasses honey, especially this weather! I think all the drugs have played havoc with our systems, but I just keep really hoping they may have shocked our bodies into being more responsive next time. xx

hope everyone is coping, lots of love xxx


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## Samuel Jackson

Hi everyone

Sorry for not posting for aaages, i have been reading though x

Hope your all doing ok, well as well as you can under the circumstances  

Hello to all the newbies, sorry weve had to meet on this thread but we are all here to support one another.

Love to everyone xx

Sam xx


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## Tuckeiller

Evening peeps - I find myself in the reluctant position of needing to change threads from tx to negative cycle  I guess strictly speaking it wasn't negative, but the clinic pulled the plug at the 11th hour on Friday (should be going for ec tomorrow). Gutted.

I am not going to get any answers until November  when I have my follow up appointment. The only thing the clinic did say was I probably didn't respond too well becasue of my age 39. Now I am not sure what to do next................

You may or may not be aware (or interested) but there is a fertility show shortly in London, http://www.fertilityshow.co.uk/ looks like there is lots of interesting seminars covering all aspects of fertility and lots of clinics, including some from abroad. Just thought I would share it with you  Hope I haven't offended anyone x

/links


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## marie57

hello all
a big warm welcome to Tuckieller  Katben  and songbird80  So sad that such a lovely group of people have to share such hard circumstances,but at least we have each other  Dont know what I would have done without the support of this website.Tuckeillier what happened hun why did the clinic cancel ec,thats very hard.
Katben you sound very sensible hun, people are only trying to help with clutching at straws for you but it dosnt help you to greive for what you have lost and its only after doing so you can move forward.Songbird sounds like you have a wonderful sister there hun,take some time to consider your options.
noahsark and emmiflo glad im not the only sweaty betty on here  I do tend to get this before my period but this time its longer and more servere.Do you get it normally? I have been getting it for some time now and I know my FSH is creeping up but i hope im not menapausal yet!Noahsark dont beat yourself up about feeling envious of friends hun I think its totally understandable,and im sure they would feel the same if the tables were turned.Misha how are you today hun ?
hope everyone had some happy moments over this lovely weekend XX


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## katben

Hey all,
Tuckieller, I'm so sorry. November seems like a long time to wait for some answers. I have to ring my clinic today to make a follow up appointment.
Songbird, take your time, grieve and think about your options...you dont need to make that decision right away.

I'm getting a bit worried about these night sweats, I don't usually get them, but have been having them for the last week or so while I've been on the progesterone pessaries. Is this a normal side effect?

How is everyone? I had a lovely afternoon yesterday with some good friends which helped loads! xx


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## Songbird80

Thanks lovely ladies.... We've got to just keep on going right xxx At the moment I feel a bit hopeless but I guess that's reactionary and that hopefully ill pick up again once the disappointment has faded a bit. Argh... Wish we didn't all have to experience this heart ache xxx


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## Onthego69

Hello everyone,

Jen-V - I'm with you on trying to get as much info as possible before trying again.  It's definitely worth trying to get some basic tests from your GP.  I'm going to try and get some Level 1 immune tests from the GP - it's a long shot, but worth a try.  I hope you can get something sorted - it is amazing how few pre-treatment checks some clinics do. Take care x

emmieflo - thanks ,  I gave in and ate a bar of chocolate last night (the first for about 6 months!!) and thought 'what the h**l'  I had been trying so hard since the beginning of the year not to eat anything that might interfere with tx working .  Sorry to hear that you now have cystitis - these drugs mess up our systems so much  . I like the sound of the Barcelona clinic - fingers crossed you can get something from your insurance towards the cost. There is always the communication issue with overseas clinics, but from what you've said Barcelona seem to be on the ball.  I am a little frustrated that I have not had any feedback yet following this negative cycle from my clinic. Hopefully will hear this week.  All the best x

Tuckeiller - so sorry to hear your clinic pulled the plug on tx , so frustrating for you to have to wait until November.  thanks for the link to the show - there are some really interesting speakers over the weekend - think it might be worth a visit. x

Songbird - I'm so sorry ,  give yourself time as the others have said.  It's so awful that we have to go through this.  Your sister sounds like a real star. x

katben - so sorry that you got a BFN.  I hope you don't have to wait too long for the follow up appointment and you can get some answers and begin to think about the next step.  Glad you had a good afternoon with your friends  x

Hi Marie57 & noahsark - those nightsweats sound awful....something else to look forward to once the meds have gone   Hope you both start to feel back to 'normal' soon. x

Cruikcy & mooo - how are you doing ladies?

Hi Samuel 

One of my friends had her baby yesterday, spent the morning looking for a suitable gift & browsing through the baby stuff.  Felt a little sad, but very excited for her and it was a good excuse to start again to feel a little bit hopeful that it might still happen for me......

Hello to anyone I might have missed  

M xx


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## jen-v

Songbird, hello again, so sorry you are having to join this thread   A lot of ladies on this thread have talked about feeling a sense of hopelessness, but it does seem to get better with time - take good care of yourself. 

Katben and Tuckeiller hello too, and so sorry for your news   Tuckeiller that must be so frustrating. I think fertility show is a great idea, you might come across some different perspectives on what you might be able to do - hopefully it isn't just 'age' - that could mean so many things! - there are so many of us late 30s+ doing ivf, and the odds aren't too bad. I'm really looking seriously at what I can do with supplements and nutrition - its cheaper than drugs! Have you seen angelbump's thread? Well, it  makes me feel like I'm doing something anyway. 

Misha - I had big bar of green and blacks this week - know how you feel!   Good luck with your tests - I pushed to get my immunes done, and was glad as they were positive. I'm going to try and be pushy and ask for some more!

Marie how do you know about your FSH - do you get it tested regularly?

Emmieflo - how did you find the language issue abroad? did you learn technical ivf language in spanish (or is it catalan??) I'm kind of considering it for the future if we end up going down the donor route - but maybe its worth looking at anyway? were you attracted by success rates? Sorry lots of qs - I've been thinking about it a lot this weekend!

noahsark and other hot-flush ladies   sounds really horrible. I think drugs probably have left our systems, but I'm thinking our own hormones are likely still to be a mess for a bit. Surely it can't be menopause - if ivf regularly brought that on, we'd all know about it I hope  I was a really crazy pmt lady yesterday, 1st proper af is late but definitely on the way!  

Sending   to everyone else - hope you manage to catch the last of the indian summer today. xxx


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## Onthego69

Hi Jen- V, 

Do you mind me asking which immune tests you managed to get on the NHS?  I've taken a list of the level 1 immunes from Agate's thread - going to take this to the GP!!

M xx


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## Tuckeiller

Evening peeps – thanks for making me feel welcome.

Marie – At my first stim scan only 1 follie and ? 2 cysts.  Second scan no different, and confirmed the ? were actually cysts that had grown.  They took bloods and said my oestrogen was way too low and they would not proceed.  I am a little worried that she said the cysts had grow.  Do you think they will stop growing now 
now I have stopped the meds.  I have a bit of pain on my left side, where my ovary is stuck to my uterus (stage 4 endo).

How do you know if your FSH is raising?  Thinking of going to the docs and see if there is any tests that can do to test if my oestrogen is normal or not??

Misha – a bit of chocolate will do you no harm.  Enjoy x

Jen – I have been taking pre pregnancy suppliants, and CQ10 but that is about it.  I did try reflexology thinking if nothing else it was very relaxing.  Someone on another thread has suggested DHEA – apparently good for those with low ovarian reserve (me).  You need to take it for 3 months to get it in to your system.  

Sorry for all the questions, so much to get my head around again!


----------



## marie57

Evening ladies
Jen v my FSH was the 1st test my gp did when she knew we were having trouble ttc it was 11.5 then and ive had it done quite a few times now last time before tx last month and it was 14.5Dr said thats not good but he was surprised I got 14 eggs.My af is late too but I have the tell tale headache so guess it will be here tommorow  
Misha hope you get some contact from your clinic soon if not why dont you ring them I would 
Katben sorry you have been suffering the night sweats too,Its definately a side effect of the progesterone I had it the whole 2 ww but didnt expect them quite so bad now im 4weeks on  
Emmiflo hope the cystitis is easing up have you tried putting a teaspoon of bicarbanate of soda in your drinks it really helps with the burning when you wee  sorry for tmi They can def test oestrogen and FSH with blood test hun,get your gp to do them for you.
Hi noahsark ,madasatruck,moo,samuel,songbird,Tuckieller,cruicky


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## marie57

sorry Tuckieller I meant to adress that bit about the blood tests to you hun.I had cyst form when I tried a clomid cycle and it had to be abandaned,it did stop growing once meds stopped and I would imagine that would be the same for you once meds stop.Its awful though as you get all geared up for it and it feels like all that for nothing,but hopefully they have learnt something for next time hun


----------



## Onthego69

Hi everyone,

Tuckeiller - your GP should be able to give you a test for both FSH and oestradiol/E2  (which will indicate oestrogen levels).  Sorry to hear your endo is giving you pain  .  Hope you get some answers to your questions.  It's horrible feeling like you are in limbo and not knowing what is going on in your own body.  Take care, X

Thanks marie57 - I got an e-mail tonight from my clinic.  It's not what I wanted to hear and I feel very stupid .  I had two beta hcg tests last week, two days apart (Tues & Thurs), results were 22 then 24.  After the first result my clinic in Cyprus told me to wait until the second blood test before making a decision to stop the meds. They were not optimistic as the first result was under 25, but advised me to wait and see if the number had doubled. After the second result I informed the clinic in Cyprus by email and asked them if it was ok to stop the meds as the clinic where I'd had the bloods taken here in the UK said it was definitely not a viable pregnancy as levels were still under 25, but could perhaps be ectopic.  

I didn't hear from my clinic in Cyprus, but stopped the meds on Thursday, as I was worried about a developing ectopic.  Tonight I received an email from my clinic advising me to continue with the meds and have another blood test to see what the hcg is doing, then we can make a decision as to whether or not it is a viable pregnancy    So now I feel really stupid that I have stopped the meds, AF arrived today (although it is more like spotting).  I don't know what to think, according to the UK clinic if hcg does not rise enough then it's all over, but according to my clinic in Cyrus it's not a miscarriage unless the hcg goes down  

I was really upset when I got the e-mail, thinking that maybe there was a chance and I ruined any possibility by stopping the meds. It took me back to last week and all the feelings of loss that I was just starting to deal with. I just want it all over with, so that I can get on and move forward.  From what I have read, no matter what the level if hcg doesn't rise then it is not a viable pregnancy.

Sorry to go on ladies with this post, it's hard to process these things sometimes.

Hoping that I can take a few steps forward tomorrow and move on from this.

M xx


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## jen-v

Misha - I'm not surprised you are upset - that must be so stressful   please don't blame yourself, you made the best decision with the info you had. As you say, UK clinics are very clear about what the hcg has to do for a pregnancy, and ectopics are nasty, so it must surely have been the right thing to do. In tx, we seem to have to face make-or-break decisions every day about what protocol to follow, what tea to drink etc etc etc, we aren't experts and can only do our best, so be kind to yourself.  jen-v x


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## marie57

Oh Misha what an awful situation for you hun,just want to send you loads of     Jen V is right, you have nothing to blame yourself over. I presume the meds you are talking of is the progesterone supps which are really only given as a precaution most people would make enough naturally to sustain the pregnancy anyway but as it does no harm they give it to make absolutely sure.hope you get some clear indications one way or the other very soon hun.Keep us posted xx


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## cruicky2

Hi everyone, 

Am so sorry I haven't been a little more active on this thread... I have been reading you regularly although the last 3 days have been away and lost track a little, and as I was scanning through the last posts I noticed someone asked how I was doing. I was very touched... My thoughts are with you all.... Misha I really hope you get an answer to this absolutely awful situation you are in soon... 

AFM, we have decided to explore the immune route.. We live near Geneva in Switzerland but flew over to London on the weekend and had our first appointment yesterday with Dr. Gorgy. Was so intense, like a tennis match: question asked, answer thrown back, question, answer... I was exhausted. Had tears in my eyes at one point, so much had built up... But it went well, and we had rest of Level 1 and all Level 2s done.
We were nervous about how we would get on, went ok, and are now thinking about doing all immunes + next cycle with Dr. G. He put us on antibiotics straight away as I have chlamydia. antibodies and ureaplasma., so we are on 5 weeks of that then a retest.  We also need to wait about 3-4 weeks for blood test results to come back and then we'll have a clearer idea. 
It all takes sooo long... 

Cruicky xxx


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## Onthego69

Thankyou cruicky2, marie57 and Jen-v for all of your lovely, kind messages of support.  I am feeling a little better today and looking forward again.  You are all right, we do our best and we are not experts! Going to email the clinic for some more answers.

Cruicky - your appointment with Dr Gorgy sounds very intense, but good. It's great that you are able to get all of the immune tests carried out just now. I am looking into getting a telephone appointment with him once I have spoken with my GP tomorrow.

Hello to all of the other ladies on this this thread 

M x


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## mooo

Hello everyone,

Just read through everyones posts and didn't want to just read and not say anything.
Hope everyone is getting through ok. I certainly feel a lot better after the sunshine. Thank you for some lovely comments addressed to me. It's a shame we all have to share this sadness, but at least we're understood here.

Still waiting AMH results - probably another week to wait, but feeling that hope again, after all that's so worth holding on to isn't it?

Mooo.x


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## katben

Hi all,

Misha, glad to hear you are feeling a little better today; what an awful situation to find yourself in hun..thinking of you.
Cruicky; sounds like you had a really postive (though tiring!) consultation. The waiting is one of the things that struck me most about IVF when I had my first cycle..lets do this, then wait a bit, then we'll do something else, and wait a bit more. It can be so maddening when you're itching to get started! At the risk of sounding naive, though, please could someone explain about immune tests? I'm going for my follow up on Friday an dwould like to be well armed!
Moo, so pleased to hear your feeling a ray of hope; grab it with both hands sweetie!!

Hope evryone else is doing ok, sorry if I've missed anyone!

AFM - spent the better part of last night and today holding my sisters hand as she gave birth to my nephew ( and cuddling him afterwards!). Very emotional in all sorts of ways. Bit tired, happy, sad, confused, and a little scared, but on the whole doing ok  xxx


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## jen-v

Hi katben, you did amazingly today! what a lovely sister / aunt you are 
There's a big section on immune testing here http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=52.0 with agate's brilliant list of info at the top, and a good book by alan beer called 'is my body baby friendly?', I've found it all really complicated, but very briefly I think its the idea that various problems with your immune system can lead to implantation failures / miscarriage. Some clinics don't test as the research isn't fully accepted. Others do, although I think not usually until you have a history of multiple bfns / mc. We pushed for it sooner because of my age and the cost of ivf tx. There are different levels of testing, so far my GP did my thyroid (Misha - I think you asked me about this?), and clinic did 'Natural Killer cells', the tx for this hasn't been too expensive: clexane, steroids and aspirin, although I know a lot of ladies have more expensive tests and tx. Anyway, agate's thread has loads more info. Good luck! jen x


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## cruicky2

Thanks for explaining immune testing Jen! Agate's FAQ is the place to start for those interested, along with Dr. Beer's book. DH and I were fully prepared for our appointment, tables, notes and all. It took us over a week to prepare together. 
As you say, it is generally advised for repeat m/c and/or failure implantation. Our visit yesterday cost us £ 1900 with the testing. Treatment can be hellishly expensive (fm what we can see it can be more expensive than IVF itself depending on what you need, and that's before even starting IVF!)
It is our last option, so we're just hoping and praying we will find an explanation to our 4 failed attempts and 4 natural chemical pregnancies... 
Cruicky xxx


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## SSC

Hi,

I'm sad to be joining this thread after getting a BFN on 28.09.11, but am really glad to be able to have chats with other women that understand what I am going through.  I am surrounded by friends with babies and pregnant women, I have very few friends left who are not pregnant or already have children. 

I'm 29 but have a complicated medical history as I have severe endometriosis, and I have also had treatment for pre-cancerous cells and I dont ovulate naturally. I have had four operations for endometriosis and the first doctor, who had to operate on me for four hours, told me very bluntly "you will never have children", those words now keep running through my mind!

My friends and family were so supportive during treatment and everyone was sure I was pregnant, which I think made the BFN harder to take. The fact my boobs looked huge was probably a reason why and also the fact I was so bloated (I am normally an B cup and my boobs were falling out of my bra, which was great!  ) On the day I realised the IVF had not worked a friend of mine even said he thought I was 'glowing'!  Half an hour later I had a severe period cramp and then felt a gush and had an oddly coloured discharge, it was grey/brown, not like usual AF (sorry for TMI). That same morning I had felt faint and my boobs had shrunk back down so I had a gut feeling something was wrong.

I was due to take my pregnancy test the following morning so I took it that afternoon and it was negative.  I did another the following day, also negative.  Two days later it was more like my AF, redder in colour, but nowhere near as heavy as I was expecting (especially as AF is normally v heavy for me).

I only had red AF for around 2.5 days and then brownish spotting again. Does that sound normal after having 2 embryos transferred?  

I had been treated at Guys in London and am actually really disappointed with the care there.  Each appointment felt rushed and I only ever saw a doctor on the days of procedures (MET, EC and ET). I never saw the same doctor twice. During my cycle I had unexplained blood in the uterus, which expelled naturally, a cyst (which delayed treatment for a week and did get slightly bigger but they said I was OK to continue with treatment) and then fluid in the uterus which they drained during egg collection. I still didnt get the results of what this fluid was.

During all these complications I was still only seen by nurses and I cant help thinking these were negative signs and perhaps should not have continued with the cycle. I feel we have wasted our first NHS go and we have none in the freezer!  They collected 12 eggs, 5 fertilised and only 2 made it to day 5, so they transferred both.

When I got the BFN I called the clinic, I kept getting an answerphone and after leaving 4 messages over 2 days, still nobody called me back. I kept calling until I got through and refused to hang up until I spoke to a nurse.  She was very clinical about the whole thing saying sorry it didnt work and would book me in for the next cycle. No talk about an appointment to talk about why this went wrong.  I explained I couldnt cope with another cycle this side of Christmas, she said that was fine and made me an appointment for end of November to discuss starting next cycle in January.  I was shocked there was no discussion about why this treatment may have gone wrong.

To me it seems Guys are oversubscribed. Even one of the nurses said they had recently moved to a bigger unit but there are still not enough rooms or staff to keep up with the amount of patients.  I am going to write to my PCT and tell them of my experience.

I would love to hear from others, does this seem like normal procedure, am I just over analysing or being over-sensitive because of the BFN?

Sorry that we are all not chatting because of happier circumstances...hopefully one day we will be! X


----------



## cbizzies

Hi, I have just completed a cycle at Guys Hospital too.  My test day is actually tomorrow.  However after suffering with spotting yesterday I called to leave a message.  I wanted to test this morning and wanted to know what they suggested.  A nurse did call me back in the end and it was a nurse who I had had a bit of trouble with during my treatment actually.  Anyway, she was short on the phone telling me it was most likely to be my period but that I should still test on Thursday.  When I asked to test today instead she said it would not be advised, that they give the test day for a reason.

I barely slept with cramps and worry.  I was no longer spotting and felt slightly more positive after reading of people's experiences and still being pregnant.  But ... Big but, around midmorning I found a lot of blood, and suddenly the pain is increasing and blood is pretty much flowing.  I tested this afternoon - negative.  I will test again tomorrow morning as per their instruction, but am suddenly concerned about their reaction and distinct lack of concern you have relayed.

Being honest I was a high risk case so expected a lot more doctor appointments rather than the nurse scans.  It turned out we did eventually have 2 doctors scanning me just before egg collection.  There was a lengthy discussion on concerns and I was booked for EC on 20/9.  I found everybody to be lovely, helpful and very concerned.  EC went better than we could have hoped, but she mentioned at the time I had fluid in my tube, rather than what they thought was a cyst, and they didn't drain it.  I thought that was odd, surely the fluid is best not to be there!  Out of 12 eggs, 8 fertilised, and on day 3 we were told 3 were developing quite slowly and 5 seemed to be the same.  So they wanted to wait til day 5.  I was somewhat concerned on transfer day when the Embryologist wanted to put 2 back when I was constantly being told I was high risk.  I felt like no one really read my notes.  Mr Kalaf himself did my transfer and told me I had made the right choice for only one transfer.  Apparently we had one excellent grade, 5 not developing as they would expect, 1 ok grade, and one not so good.  We had the excellent one put back. None remained for freezing.

And here I am today. I symathise with you not wanting to go again straight away.  I don't either.  We have my cousins wedding in South Africa next March, so thought it would be good to go to that and perhaps do another after that.  Right at this moment I cannot even imagine doing this again.  We should keep in contact. I too am 29, have a very complicated history and have had years of all sorts since ttc for 7 years!  I guess these nurses and doctors deal with failures all the time and don't understand the feelings behind it.  During the wait before my EC two nurses were actually talking about their children, and one said how her 1st and 3rd were both accidents! 

I'm devastated today and don't even know what the next steps will be.  Perhaps we should take time out of this for a few weeks mourning our loss and focusing on feeling better, especially emotionally.  I'm thinking of you!


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## jen-v

carolbisley and SSC, so sorry for your sad news


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## SSC

Thanks jen-v.

carolbisley - How strange we went through such a similar experience almost a week apart. I completely understand how you are feeling, but I can tell you time heals.  My best advice is to try and get away, as soon as I realised it had gone wrong I jumped on a flight to Spain to see my mum. I am sure the Vitamin D helps too! But seriously, a change of scenery really helped me to clear my mind and start feeling positive again. Dont get me wrong, there are still moments of sadness. I also read a new book out called IVF an Emotional Companion, it tells lots of different stories which helped me realise I am not alone on this journey.  Sorry if that sounds cheesy!

The worst thing really was that feeling that I was pregnant, I was convinced, and then that nasty cramp followed by the AF was just heartbreaking.  Like all my dreams were instantly taken away. And then to have no support from the hospital at all made me really consider how poor the treatment had been.

I cant believe the nurses had that conversation in front of you. That is unreal.  I understand that to them its their day to day job, but I am sure part of their job is to have a good bed-side manner - most of them were lovely, as you said. But others were just plain awful and sadly those are the ones you remember, especially after bad news.

It also seems strange to me that they didnt drain the fluid from your tubes.  I also was told from day one, that under no circumstances should I have two embryos transferred as I am also high risk, but Doctor Reddy at the very last minute said as none were going to be suitable for freezing and as we had one very good and one good embryo she wanted to put back both to give us the best possible chance. Each doctor seemed to have a different opinion, which didnt fill us with confidence. 

I think we are both doing the right thing in waiting a few months to give our mind and body a rest. I have spoken to my GP and a lady at our PCT and told her how let down I feel by Guys.  One of the nurses there actually said to me "we recently moved to this part of the hospital but there still are not enough rooms or staff for the amount of patients we have". And that is certainly how it felt. I just felt like a number and our treatment was textbook, rather than them looking at my individual problems, if that makes sense. 

My cousin in law had treatment at Chelsfield Park hospital last year on the NHS and her experience was totally different. She saw the same consultant at every appointment and had a lot more check ups and investigations. I have written a letter to my PCT asking if I can be transferred there but apparently the NHS no longer have a contact with them, which is disappointing.  Do you mind me asking which borough you are in? If you also think you didnt get the treatment you should have got at Guys maybe you should let your PCT know as well. I was told I was the first ever patient to complain about Guys, which I find hard to believe.  If they are taking on too many patients and cant give adequate care we need to let them know and then perhaps they will open up more contracts with other hospitals.

Nothing will take away your sadness today, or tomorrow, but I promise you will start feeling better.  Especially once the drugs start leaving your system!  I feel 100 times better than I did this time last week and I'm determined not to give up yet.

It would be lovely to stay in contact.  Thinking of you and everyone else who has also had bad news. I hope one day we will all be sharing happier stories X


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## marie57

SSC and CarolBisley welcome to you both,so sorry its not in better circumstances,sending you    
It really does sound as though you have been treated very badly by guys and I think you are right to complain.I had tx at herts and Essex and must say I thought they were great so kind and nothing was to much trouble,it was private but that shouldnt make any difference.
Hi Jenv did you get af yet? I got it this pm   feel a bit gutted as that little glimmer of hope had lit up again as  is 3 days late how stupid am I ? Told myself not to do that but do I listen,no  
 To all the lovely ladies on here Maria x


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## emmieflo

Marie57, you poor love, you are not stupid at all, it is so cruel, all this hope that keeps being taken away by AF. I do hope you feel a little better soon sweetheart.
Cruicky, you must be worn out sweetheart, I'm glad your consultation went well, I know what you mean everything does seem agonizingly slow.
Katben, you are a lovely lady, what a lot of emotions you are going through in such a short time. take care of yourself too hon.
SSC and carolbisley, I'm so sorry, and also that you have been treated so badly at Guys, I bet you aren't the first to complain!Take care sweethearts
Misha love, I am so sorry for all that you are going through, don't beat yourself up as well, I'm sure we'd all have stopped the meds,. I hope you are ok hon.
Songbird I hope you are feeling a bit better sweetheart.
Tuckeiller, I am so sorry love, and that you have to wait so long to get some answers, it does seem like so much waiting in all this.
Jen-V hope you are ok love, I meant to say that the clinic in Spain did have english speaking doctors and nurses as well. I think they speak a few languages. I found them on the internet, and they said they had one of the highest success rates in Europe. I know there are no guarantees, but I just felt they really cared and would do everything to make sure I had the best chance. I was impressed as the doctor took ages to scan my womb, as well as tests for aids, hepatitis and chlamydia, they tested liver and kidney functions and for anaemia as well as a mamogram and ECG. They didn't just seem interested in taking all our money, as they told me about my fibroids to be sorted out first. 

My cystitis turned into a kidney infection so I have been feeling utterly lousy this week. The doctor said all the IVF drugs probably played a big part in me getting it. I feel really panicked as If I manage to get treatment for fibroids I will have to have more time off work, and earlier in the year I had pnuemonia and pleurisy, so was off for 5 weeks with that. I'm usually quite healthy, but wonder if it's just been the stress of it all. I've only been living with DH for a year, he is being supportive, but I think he is secretly a little bit tired of me being ill all the time. My work have been really good, but I'm not at all sure what they'll say if I have more time off re fibroid opp, but I will have to do it anyway, I can't give up on having a baby yet.

lots of love and thinking of you all xxx
Ps Marie 57 thankyou so much for the bicarb soda tip, I am prone to cystitis so will definitely try that next time xx


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## cbizzies

Hi SSC, I am quite sure we must be in the same PCT as I am in Bromley Borough.  We didn't have an altogether bad experience at Guys and I don't know what to think going forward.

I have 3 issues with Guys. The first was that they sent a letter to my consultant to ensure that he was ok with me falling pregnant as they considered my case to be high risk.  He was angry as he said he would never have referred me to Have IVF if he wasn't.  Long story short my treatment was delayed by 5 days whilst I was used as the go between.  I was upset, but having spent 21 days on the pill and 3 weeks sniffing, I didn't want to jeopardise my treatment there, so just went with it all.  I dealt with the Clinic manager complaining that Guys should have noted that my doctor hadn't replied etc. Instead my body was all ready to start, I had organised work relayed issues and here I was waiting for paperwork!
The second issue was seeing a different nurse every time.  I had more than usual number of scans, every other day from day 5.  On one occasion the nurse had no tact.  When coming to scan me she removed the 'dignity' sheet exposing my all.  I asked her to put the sheet of paper towel back as I felt exposed.  She said that she needed to see what she was doing, but ok.  She folded it in half so I was still completely exposed with only my tummy covered.  She then used her fingers touching me before putting the probe in.  I was so upset, but instead of saying something I thought I was possibly being silly.  I told my husband and he also said that I should just keep still as we didn't want to cause upset during the treatment.  She upset me further during that appointment, but let's not get into that.  At my next appointment I told the other nurse of my experience and told her I was unusually nervous for that days scan because of it.  She simply apologised explaining that dignity was important and she understood my upset.
The last issue was with the fluid, which I explained in my earlier post.  

I have been seeing Mr Steer for some years now and during my treatment at Guys there were some complications which meant I needed to be in contact with him.  He apparently contacted the PCT to offer to continue my treatment at Chelsfield.  So perhaps I should contact my PCT?!

My friend who has undergone 17 IVF treatments through the last 10 years told me she thought the clinic (Guys)was brilliant and she thought my cycle went well.  So now I have no idea what to think.  I will call the PCT when I am feeling stronger.

Today ... Terrible cramps and VERY heavy bleeding.  Still some tears too, so I will need time.  It is a good healer.  Thank you for the support.

I am wishing the best for all of us who are dealing with negative cycles.  Onwards and upwards!


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## katben

Hey everyone!

Wow, so many new posts since I was last on here! 
Carol and SSC, I feel awful for you. This is is such a stressful time as it is, the last thing you need is the people you expect to be most reassuring and supportive causing you even more stress. I'm sure Emmieflo is right, and you won't be the first to complain! Sorry we have had to meet under these sad circumstances we all find ourselves in   to you both.
Emmieflo, what an awful time you have had just lately   . I think you're right though, the stress of it all may well be causing you to feel run down and therefore be more susceptible to infections etc you wouldn't normally get. Bicarb really does work, but it tastes awful!

AFM thanks for your well wishes! Follow up tomorrow so fingers crossed we get some positive steps to take for our next cycle. When I started bleeding prior to my OTD, it looked like AF and there was definately lining (sorry TMI!), but it was nowhere near as heavy or as painful as normal AF. Was this AF do you think? I'll ask tomorrow too, but I would value your opinions. 

Hugs and happy thoughts to you all xxx


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## marie57

Evening ladies 
Emmiflo you poor thing cystitis is awful and so are kidney infections I recon the girls are right its probably because you are a bit run down hun,that and all the equipment we have to keep having shoved in and out during tx   Thank you so much for your kind words hun   is really making me suffer again this month  hope this isnt going to be the norm from now on.Im desperately tired, its very heavy and those awful night sweats toh well at least im not working tomorrow so can have a lie in  
katben good luck for tommorow hun let us know how you get on.As for your af my clinic said it should be at least as heavy if not heavier to be considered your period so I would make sure you ask them tomorrow.
Cbizzies The nurse you mention sounds very unproffessional to me.I am a nurse and maintaining patients dignity is extremely important to ensure the patient is as relaxed as possible which makes any procedure easier for both patient and clinician.Hope your cramps are a bit better tommorow,at least you can take some painkillers without worrying and a hot water bottle now its not so hot at night.  
SSC hope you are feeling a tiny bit better today hun.I was like you convinced it had worked. I was away with family on 2nd week of 2ww and they were all convinced too.I think I was in denial over BFN for first few days.Take carex
Misha69,Cruicky,moo,JenV,tuckieller hope you all ok


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## mooo

Hi all

Just a quick pop in from me, just to say hi and let's all have a virtual hug after getting through the week. Read something quite profound yesterday, hope i get it right, it was somthing like, if you have a WHY to think of, it doesn't matter about the HOW. Something like that anyway...

Mooo.x


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## cruicky2

Thank you for the quote Mooo... that kind of thing always makes me feel a little better. 
Sending all you lovely ladies lots of     and hoping everyone is getting a little stronger... 
Cruicky xxxxx


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## Onthego69

Hi everyone,

cbizzies - what an awful time you've had of it - so unprofessional of the nurse - yes dignity is important!  Hope your bleeding and cramps have eased up a little bit  

SSC - it's heartbreaking to have your hopes raised one minute and dashed the next   Glad you were able to get away to see your mum, a change of scene definitley helps  

marie57 - hope those night sweats ease up for you soon and   symptoms calm down a little bit.  Did you have a good day off?

katben - hope you got some answers to the follow up appt today - let us know how you got on.  My AF after this treatment was also lighter this month - which was strange. But hcg is now below 5, so all back to normal.

emmieflo - kidney infection sounds nasty - hope you are able to take a bit of time out and recover and not worry too much about taking time off.  As the others have said the stress of everything we go through affects us emotionally and physically.  Take care and thank you for your kind words and support  

AFM - had an appt with the GP earlier in the week, he has very kindly agreed to do all of the Level 1 immune tests   and said not to pay for expensive hcg blood tests at the local private fertility clinic as he will do all of the relevant blood tests.  He was very supportive and is not pleased at the confusion over the last week or so between the two clinics   .  It is reassuring to know that I have his support and he seems to genuinely care that I get decent treatment.

Hello to all of the ladies I've not mentioned already - moo (good quote), cruicky 2, jen-V - hope you are all doing ok  

Have a good weekend everyone 

M xx


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## Jellyfisher

Hi,

I'm new to this thread. I got my BFN on Wednesday. Our clinic were great and we had our follow up on Thursday! He went through the cycle and was happy with how I responded and recommends we go again on the same protocol.  Now we have to decide when we want to go. We are funding this ourself so there seems to be lots of flexibility. The question is do we get straight back on the horse and go for a November cycl (the planned EC would be on my birthday!, go for december but potentially have bad news at Xmas and harder to take it easy with all the festivities and prep, or go for January to be free from other complications, but could I wait that long? Added into it all my sister is getting married on 1 sept next year and I already caused trouble as she wanted to get married abroad and because of the IVF I said I couldn't commit to it, and now it's potentially causing a problem again. It's all so complicated!  We have to decide in Monday if we are going for November.

Really feel for everyone who is having to have this awful experience of a negative cycle.

Jelly x


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## marie57

Welcome Jellyfisher,so sorry for your bad news hun,its so hard to come to terms with.Sending you big   Its not made any easier by having time pressures added to the mix of emotions.I think really you must think of yourself and your dh at this time,its your life and your future thats important,as it is for your sister,so you must both decide whats best for you and if that clashes,it cant be helped you must both follow your own paths.I know its not easy hun,I hate difficult decisions,but ive found myself in this situation because ive waited for the time to be right to have another child,(sometimes for others agendas)I would never advise to put it off for others after my experience.As for xmas you could get the best pressie ever!!Be kind to yourselfs this weekend and do something nice just the 2 of you.


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## cymbeline

Hi All, especially M69 ( how did the first Masters evening go?) , and Maria-  hope you are well.

Jellyfisher - I am pleased you are sounding positive after your bad news - a really difficult decision to make but I would agree if a baby was coming that would be so much more important than anything else in your life. I would trust your gut instinct, as women are pretty good at these things!

I have made the decision to wait and it feels like a long long time.

I can't believe it - I went on ** just now, after a while of not going on ( preferring FF!),and wished I'd not - one friend posting everyday about her advanced state of pregnancy and then another friend just announced her third - its really thrown me off balance and yet I know I am so lucky.Sorry to moan  - I should be pleased  - 4 weeks since I got the BFN and it has flown by and I survived. Maria - have the night sweats gone? mine have? I feel completely out of synch tho and wouldn't have a clue what my body is doing. I've just been recommended the over 45s thread and the stroies on there are truly insprational, if you are feeling a little old like me!

Take care everyone, xx


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## Jellyfisher

Hi everyone,

Marie57 and noahsark thanks for your replies. My dh and I have spent a weekend away, just enjoying being with each other and taking some time to think about everything. After lots of talking we have decided we will either go for November or January and rule out December. And think we are heading towards November. I think the time away was just what we needed to get things back into perspective! It's so easy to lose it when you are going through this!

Noahsark, it is so hard to be happy for others when this process hasn't worked for us and we so dearly want what they have got! There has been a sudden rash of people getting pregnant where I work and I have to deal with all their replacements and IRS so hard to try and be happy for them! My sister recently announced she was pregnant (not planned) and is not the easiest pregnant person I've ever met! It's all she talks about-even when I phoned to tell her about the failure of this cycle the conversation was brought round to her situation and baby which can be so hard, but I was given some advice by one of the lovely ladies on here, saying that feeling jealousy towards those who had what I want didn't make me any closer to my dream, just made me feel worse and hurt people I cared about, even if I didn't realise and that actually by embracing my joy for them I could give them something special, and know that when it was my time I could feel happier about how I had supported others, when they supported me. I'm not saying it's easy, and often its the hardest thing to feel joy when I talk to my sister when she complains about her situation, but I know one day it will be my turn and she'll be happy for me and I dont want to regret having negative feelings towards her.  I dont know if that helps or it's just my ramblings but I guess what I'm trying to say is, I totally understand how you feel and its natural, even if you do know you are lucky!

Jelly x


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## katben

Hey everyone,

Jellyfisher, sorry for your BFN   Glad to hear you and DH have had some time together to think things through, we would try again in November if we could! It can be really hard to be positive but that sounds like really good advice! My sister has just had her baby, and I was birthing partner 4 days after my BFN. It threw around some strange emotions but I'm thrilled and he's gorgeous!

Misha - Brill news about immune testing from your GP, my GP is also really supportive and did over half of my donor blood tests for me!

Noahsark, glad your night sweats have gone - mine too! Hope you're feeling a bit a bit better today. We have survive, it's been a week since mine, and it seems like an age ago.

Hello to everyone else - marie, cruicky, mooo, emmieflo, cbizzies, tuckellier - how are you girls? Sorry if I've forgotten anyone!

AFM - went for my follow up on Friday. Dr Ashour seemed really positive even though it failed. I can be matched with another recipient in January, so we're going to try agin then. He has tweaked a couple of things on my protocol, egg collection slightly later after stimming and trigger shot to (hopefully) make sure more eggs are mature. Both eggs and sperm were good quality, so it's just fingers crossed for next time from here on in xxx


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## marie57

Hi again Noahsark lovely to hear from you again hun   I really cant stand ** now after speaking with the lovely ladies on here, that all seems so trivial,and i know what you mean there is always someone on there saying something that gets on my nerves   Mind you think I am a bit short tempered at times  Night sweats are getting better but still had a short 1 last night,it is worrying me a bit.
Katben sounds as though your appt went well hun and its good to hvae a plan for the next step.
Jelly so glad you and dh had some nice time away just what the dr ordered I think,sounds like its done you both the world of good.
I just booked some tickets for the fetility show is anyone else going?


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## katben

Hey Marie, we can't go to the fertility show, I'm working and I've just had 4 weeks off so can't really book any more, especially as will be having another 3 - 4 weeks in Jan/Feb for when we have our second cycle. After I said my night sweats had gone (not had one for a few days!) I also had one last night - luckily I was still prepared with an empty duvet cover at the side of the bed! xxx


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## emmieflo

Jellyfisher, so sorry about BFN sweetheart, I'm glad you had a good weekend away and sounds like you are being really positive with your decisions.
Marie 57 hope you are feeling a bit better honey, and I think we are entitled to feel a bit bad tempered after all our bodies are going through, anyway it's not our fault, it's the damn hormones! I thought about the fertility show, cos it would be so nice to see a few faces in person too, but I don't think I could ask for anytime off cos of my sick this year.
Katben, I'm so pleased you had a good consultation honey, and have a really positive start to the new year to look forward to.
Misha your GP does sound supportive, I'm so glad sweetheart and hope you are doing ok.
Moo I loved the quote, thankyou, hope you are doing ok too honey.
cruicky hope you are ok honey.
Noahsark, hope you are feeling a little better sweetheart. It is hard looking on some of the other threads, they make me so irritated or I just end up crying. Thanks for the tip re the over 45s thread. 
I've decided to postpone things a bit, cos I'm just feeling so ill and weepy. I've had an awful throat and ears,and still feel weedy after kidney infection. I had to go to the drs yet again, she said I've got a virus now, and that my body hasn't got much resistence to anything at the moment, she thinks all the meds have upset my immune system. She said she doesn't think I could cope with fibroid op at the moment, and my body would probably cope better if I was younger, I know she was trying to be helpful, but she did have to get the tissues out after that!  
I hope everyone is a little better, my brain seems to have shrunk though, and I can't work out how to look at the previous pages, I can't remember where everyone is at, I am thinking of you all though
lots of love to all xxx


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## emmieflo

oh dear, I'm probably being paranoid, but in my earlier message, by 'other threads', I did mean the pregnancy ones,and NOT this thread (although I am pleased for the ladies on other threads as well) 
I think I'll sign off now before I sound totally mad!! xx


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## marie57

Oh bless you emmiflo you did make me chuckle with your second post,Im sure no one on here would take offense so easily we all understand hun  sorry to hear how unwell you have been you really do sound run down,try to make sure you get a lot of rest,do you take a multivitamin? That might help  
katben i had my 1st sweat free night last night   its taken so long it will soon be ovulation and all start again I suppose  
I booked the fertility show as I want to find out more about having my tubes unblocked as opposed to another cycle of IVF.It seems to be so difficult to find out(some Drs even say its not performed in this country anymore,which is untrue as I know peolpe who have had it done) there is a lecture on alternatives to tx at the show so am hoping it will be useful.Hope everyone is doing ok tonight xx


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## emmieflo

Thanks Marie57, you made me feel beter honey, I took your advice and got some multi vitamins and echinacea as well, I've been going for short walks, very slowly, like I'm a 100 years old, one of my cats comes with me he's so cute.
The fertility show sounds a brilliant way to find out more, I think some doctors are a bit dismissive of fertility issues, I'm sure they would have all the info about having your tubes unblocked at the fertility show, and hopefully give you more in depth information. 
Fingers crossed for you to have another good night sweetheart xx


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## SSC

Marie57 –  It’s so much harder when everyone else is also convinced, isn’t it.  In some ways I felt like I’d let them down having to give bad news!

Misha68 – Change of scenery definitely did me the world of good. Flew back home today and am back to reality with a bump. Although part of me is looking forward to getting back to normality and to working again. Boy do I need the money.  This time around I’m going to be careful not to over-work though! Fantastic news your doctor is going to run tests for you. What a great GP!

Jellyfisher- Sorry you have had to join this thread!  Its fantastic for support though and to feel you are not alone.  You sound very positive and your clinic sounds on the ball. My clinic aren’t seeing me until end of November and I had BFN 2 weeks ago.  We also were deciding on next cycle being Nov, Dec or Jan. We have decided on Jan, firstly to give my body time to recover and secondly because I don’t want to deal with more bad news before Christmas.  Whatever you decide I am sue your sister will support you and will understand.

Noahsark – I can completely empathise. My only friends without children are those that are single. In fact, even a couple of my single friends have babies!  One being my cousin. She fell ‘accidentally’ and the whole situation is totally messed up. I was her birthing partner right when I started the IVF treatment, which wasn’t easy. But it was such a joy to help bring the baby into this world & I love him dearly. It is terribly hard though as my cousin isn’t really ‘normal’, she has a lot of issues and I worry for the babies future.  Life really isn’t fair but we do have to count or own blessings and I am a believer that life is mapped out for us all.

Emmieflo – sending you get well vibes!  Stay strong.

Until reading recent posts on this thread I didn’t even know unblocking tubes was a possibility. One doctor told me they might as well remove mine, but as I wasn’t in pain they’d leave them for now.

I cant stop thinking how light my AF was after my BFN.  Mainly brownish discharge & only AF for 2 days.  Had some more spotting yesterday which stopped. Just seems odd to me?!

Hope you are all staying strong & as happy as can be X


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## Onthego69

Noahsark - Masters is going well, thanks  How is your study going?  You really are surrounded by babies and pregnant colleagues & friends   A friend of mine at work has just announced her pregnancy - she is only about 6 weeks, very pleased for her but strange at the same time   

emmieflo   really hope you start to feel better soon, what a rough time you've had of it lately. Sometimes it feels like everything happens at once.  You are due some better times soon  

SSC - Glad you had a good break away from it all. I know what you mean about needing the money    We need to find a balance between working to pay the bills and taking time out when we need it.....unless we win the lottery!!

Jellyfisher - sorry to see you got a BFN, take it easy and do what's right for you for your next tx  

Katben - great that you had a positive follow up consultation and just a few tweaks needed for the next cycle.  And fingers crossed the night sweats are soon a thing of the past .

Marie57 - thinking about the fertility show, waiting to see how funds are for a trip to London.  There are some good folk speaking, I would definitely go if I were a bit more local.

AFM - Will get level 1 immune results back from GP next week, then going to organise hysteroscopy.  Had AF last week, like SSC it was quite light and since then have had some lower abdominal pain, which comes and goes and gets quite painful at times.  It's not like AF cramps. Have any of you had pain after AF following tx?  Wondering if it's the old endo coming back after taking the oestrogen   Will check with the GP next week.

Hello Cruicky, Jen-V, moo, cbizzies and all of the other ladies on here  

M xx


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## jen-v

Hello, hope everyone's doing ok today   I've not posted for a bit as I feel like I'm moving on from the bfn sadness, but I kind of miss the chatting!  

Emmieflo - sounds like you have really been through the mill and need a lot of tlc   hope you can build yourself up a bit before getting back on the rollercoaster

Marie57 - I'm going to fertility show too - I thought the talk on alternatives to ivf sounded really interesting 

Jellyfisher - lovely advice about coping with pg ladies   I wonder whether hypnotherapy would be good too - might help avoid that instinctive kick-in-the-guts feeling that we really don't want to feel?? 

 also to SSC, katben, noahsark, misha69, cruicky, moo cbizzies and anyone else xxx


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## Swanage

He Jen v how r u? I keep checking back on the old site to see how they are all doing, I seem to be posting less and less lately on here but I think that must be a good thing. I start down ****** again today so I keep looking out for a new thread. 
Hi to everyone I hope your all well. Xx


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## jen-v

Hi Swanage!   I've popped onto the old thread a couple of times too, it was so nice, wasn't it? You are doing really well to get going again so soon. is it another FET?


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## Swanage

Hiya yeah it is, the only difference this time is it's a medicated cycle not natural.  We Both agreed we would either do it now or after Christmas as we didnt want to do it right over the merry season   have you decided when you may start again? X


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## mooo

Hey Swanage, wow, that is a quick turnaround. hope the downregging goes ok. Like you I'm trying to get going asap , but bl**dy lab is taken time processing the AMH.  We've had the worst year, with bfn, FiL died, I fractured knee and out of action for 3 months, so think we need some good news before the end of this Annus Horriblis.Jen-V., I'm stunned to be saying this, but I feel like I'm moving on from the sadness of the bfn too, keep looking forward to little things that are coming up and getting those waves of grief less often.

This board has so helped with that - just knowing that there are peeps who are going through the same.

mooo.x


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## marie57

Hiya girls its great to hear we are all moving on now but like you Jen V I do like the chatting and finding out how everyone is.
Ive booked the seminar on Ivf alternatives as we have decided to go for the surgery rather than IVF but the drs are so elusive about it feel like Ive got to do it all myself,noone can even tell me a surgeon in this area to do it!
Swanage good luck with the down regging hun will be    for a wonderful end of year for you.
Moo glad to hear you are feeling better too hun fingers crossed they you get those results through soon hun.  big hugs to all xx


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## Swanage

Hi moo, your right it is quick but the clinic said we can get started straight away so thought we may aswell, which clinic are you with? Will they get you started again when you get your results! 
Thanks Marie that's really nice of you, I really wanted to go to that ivf seminar but I'll be working. I Bet it is difficult to get help, hopefully the seminar might give you more info on what will happen and maybe some names of doctors who will do it? Well I have my fingers and toes crossed for you Hun. 
Hi to Jen v, jelly fish, misha and everyone else hope your all well xxx


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## Guest

Hi Ladies, 
Hope you are all well? I had my first negative IVF cycle. Im not sure if im in the right place to get support and advice on how to cope and how to plan for the next cycle


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## emmieflo

I'm so sorry sweetheart, it is so hard, I have found this a really supportive thread,although it has been a little quiet just lately. It does get a little easier, although I didn't believe it at the time. I think the follow up app is quite good in helping plan for the next cycle, and reading other posts definitely helped me feel less alone, knowing that lots of lovely ladies are going through the same. I think you have to give yourself lots of time and take good care of yourself honey.

hello to everyone else, hope you are all doing ok and feeling a little better

lots of love xxx


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## mooo

Hi all
After starting to get all positive , I' feel like I've just had that BFN feeling all over agan, as AMH result came back as extremely low, and nurse said we'd only have a 1-2 % chance of success. Now researching muchly about AMH and finding ladies do still get BFP with low AMH, but it's just another blow. Still hoping for another miracle to join us.
mooo
x


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## twinter12

Hi ladies just popped in had my first BFN on Monday, still feeling a bit low but have a review consultation booked in for 16th November and they have said I can start again straight away if we feel like it.

I'm thinking month off and start again in December?  does anyone have any views ?

I have to start next treatment before my 40th on January 30th or we will lose 2nd & last free treatment from PCT.


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## emmieflo

Hi Twinter 12, I'm so sorry sweetheart, it is very early days for you, so I'm not surprised yoi u still feel low hon. I think if I didn't have to have bloomin fibroids taken out first, I would still give myself a bit of a break before starting again, as those drugs really give us a hammering. Although I know some women start again straight away, I suppose the second time our bodies might be a bit more used to all the drugs, well that's what I'm hoping anyway! I guess you must do whatever feels best for you.
Sophie82 hope you are ok hon.
Moo I'm really sorry to hear your news sweetheart, good for you looking into to it, don't give up hope honey, you probably know more about it than the nurse with all your research, and sounds promising that ladies get their BFP. I know that it is so hard though, when you keep getting knock backs. I didn't realise how hard it would all be, I feel postive one minute then bit despairing the next. I have to have this fibroid removed and thankfully I have some limited private health care through work, they won't accept the spanish clinics report though and I have to see another consultant first. I'm really worried about how much time I'll need off work, as redundancies are looming. Well i'm not giving up either, just so damn hard!
hope everyone is ok lots of love xxx


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## Guest

Hi All:
emmieflo: thanks for the kind words, feeling a bit better. I didnt go to work on Tuesday as I didnt think I could cope as the result was still so raw. Also AF arrived on Monday night and it was the worst AF ive had in a long time! 
I really want to start again really quickly, but I think I may have to wait 3 months. I have a follow up appointment end of november and I hope they can explain why it didnt work!


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## SHARBARA

hi girls
can i join you
just had a BFN from FET !
but have have a 2 year old boy from prev fresh cycle
No further treatment gonna be happening here so thought id pop in for A CHAT


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## cymbeline

Hi Sharbara,
                  Just wanted to say hello and how sad it is for you. Even when you have a child it still really hurts - more than I expected it to. I hope you can get some comfort from your other child. Its a really hard time of year to be sad in, too. Hope you can take some time out to heal and find the strength to go on with your journey.

Take care xx


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## Mrs Billy

Can I join you too?   Just had failed IVF. Don't understand, everything looked so good, a perfect 5 day blast & perfect lining (clinic's words, not mine). I was having what seemed like very encouraging signs until Friday night/Saturday morning when everything just disappeared, I starting cramping & spotting yesterday & got a BFN this morning. My otd isn't until tomorrow but really, if it had worked I'd have seen a bfp this morning as it would have been 9dp5dt which = 14dpo. Gutted. Absolutely gutted. Had an hour's sleep, my husband is away so I've only got this place to come to "talk".

Amanda


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## LillyR

Mrs Billy, I'm so sorry. What awful news for you - and horrible when you've got to deal with bad news by yourself. Sending you a big hug     although I know nothing will make you feel better at the moment. This process is just so horrible and unfair at times. 
You're not alone, and you WILL feel better. Just take it easy on yourself right now and give yourself time to feel cr*p and grieve. I know it's horrid when you were expecting a good result - especially if all the signs were so good. But sometimes it's just really terribly bad luck - and there's no 'reason' for it. That's sometimes the hardest to take. 
Thinking of you and hope you start to feel a bit brighter soon - wishing you ALL the best for 2012 - this will be your year!
xxx


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## Guest

hi ladies, sorry to hear about the BFN...after a month since my cycle I still cant seem to find something to get me out of this lull....I guess with my uncle passing away 2 wks ive got myself into a bit of state. Ive had a follow up appointment where I was told I have amh..so looking of ways to better my chances next time


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## mooo

Sophie82 -If you have low AMH, many recommend DHEA, my dr said 75mg / day inc quality of eggs!

Mrs Billy -     it sucks , I know. Having plans to look forward to really helped me. It does get easier honestly, but grief is a natural process to go through.

I'm 3 months after BFN, and having ET tomorrow  with one lucky embie - the only one i got this cycle, so hoping for a miracle.

mooox


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## Mrs Billy

Good luck for tomorrow Moo x


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## jadeyjade

Hi girls...

Just found this thread and think its just what i need
I got my BFN on 6/12/11 thought i would cope ok but it has really hit me 
To top things off, yesterday (which should of been my OTD) my 32 year old, drug addict brother and his teenage girlfriend decided to ring me and announce their pregnancy.
I want to be happy for them but I'm not 
He says he will sort himself out, as i pointed out it is not fair to bring a innocent child into his crazy life.
I just wish he had waited to tell me, Also their not sure how far done they are, they think 3-4weeks and have not even had it confirmed by the doctor! why tell me on my OTD when its all so raw!
Anyway sorry for the rant  Just know that many of you will understand my feelings

Mrs Billy- Hope you have found the support you need during this difficult time! Next year will be our year..
Big Hugs   xxx


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## Sarah1712

Ladies, have just come across this and i too think its just what i need. We got our bfn 2 weeks ago this coming tuesday and to start with i was quite like its ok, i will get my life together, lose some weight etc etc and enjoy christmas. But now it feels like it has all just hit me. I cry at any little thing and just cant believe how emotional i am. Feel gutted that we spent £14,000 and have nothing to show for it and if we dont want to go nhs then we will have to pay it again. Also the twist is, in order to be eligible to go nhs i have to lose 4 stone. Feel totally under pressure but it p****s me off that its my hubby with the problem and i have normal periods, normal ovulation, even normal blood pressure, no diabetes blah blah but everyone tars you with the same brush. If your fat you cant have a child and thats it. Its all so wrong. Im seriously struggling with it all at the moment and am hoping my request for a counsellor through gp comes through soon as need to talk to someone impartial who doesnt know me really but hey will wait on that one. And to top it all, my sister in law is due her baby any day now and shes a miserable biatch as is my brother in law. They will make good parents if you like the shouting and belowing sort that halts the entire bus station of people to tell the child off for picking their nose lol. 
This IVF milarchy is so blumin hard, they didnt tell me this when i started lol. Also i really wanna give trying naturally a good go while we have to wait but i just have zilch libido and when i do think about it my dh is offshore so not really great circs for making babies!! Ive just had period which im surprised it came and went so smoothly but when do you start ovulating again? Is it straight away coz obviously they took as many eggs as were there. Am confused about this one? Answers on a postcard please lol

Sarah xxx


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## Sarah1712

P.S. JadeyJade know how you feel regarding drugs. I work with addicts and see daily the pregnant girlfriends or pregnant addicts. So sad really. 
Why cant the mystery man upstairs see that we would make great parents


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## jadeyjade

Sarah - wow i sense your frustration   
It is so difficult to go through any fertility treatment!
I totally relate to your feelings about your sister in-law  
I am shocked to read that you work with addicts as so do i  
Not your regular career, i work in drug and alcohol treatment centre, with lots of pregnant addicts 
I do question the man up stairs too!!!
i believe anybody that has gone through fertility treatment will make The Best Parents due to the difficulty we have been through.
I can't help on the question of ovulation but will find out and get back o you.
I think it takes time for us to grieve and heal before we can move forward onto our next step n the journey.
I hope you get the time and support to do this  

Big hugs xxx


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## jadeyjade

Just done a little research about AF after failed cycle,
This is something i wanted to know too, think we may of had our BFN on the same date 
From what i just read AF can go a little irregular after treatment due to all drugs we've taken
But i gather it should be due, the usual amount of days, from your last bleed
So if your cycle is usually 30 days, it should be 30 ish days from your failed cycle bleed 
Not 100% on this but hope it helps xxx


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## Sarah1712

Wow jadeyjade, how stange we work in the same field. I work with addicts before they get to treatment centre. But mainly work with young people under 21. 
As for AF thanks for info but wondered about ovulating. Do we ovulate normally? Or is it empty? Would be very apt if it was empty as thats how im feeling. 
Am normally a get up and go person and dh is being supportive but i think even he is trying to move on but i seem to be stuck in this one place.
I was a little harsh about my sis in law, they will make good parents but she seems to rub salt in the wound at any opportunity. I dont thinkits on purpose, shes not the most sensitive of people and its a little less empty between the ears than you average Joe but she is domplaining about being pregnant. Of course i dont comment coz i dont want to be the marter.
Oh i dont know, there should be an after ivf manual to help deal with this

Sarah x


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## SHARBARA

sarah am with you on the weight thing

its rubbish

im a midwife and see people with BMI very high having naturally concieved kids every day of the week so i get very resentful of it ... i too lost 3 stone for nhs treatment and was lucky to get my little boy but this FET was self funded, we cant afford more treatment so im gonna work on loosing weight and hoping for a natural miracle one day but like you i have the libido of a blade of grass ...................


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## Sarah1712

Sharbara- blimey must be very difficult being a midwife and seeing new life on a daily basis. As for weight thing, i just dont understand why? How did you lose all that weight? Did it happen quickly? Im just afraid that it will take about a year to lose weight and then by the time ive lost it it will take another year to two to get nhs treatment. My doctor said she would prescribe me something to help with the weight loss but im just scared. Its ridiculous, food has always been such an emotional crutch in my life which i know is unhealthy but i can safely say it has nevr let me down or caused me pain. But ironically it is causing me pain because its stopping me from having the family i long for. Ive been pregnant before with a former partner so know i can fall naturally but i was much slimmer then and younger!
I think with everything else in my life i have felt in control and when i want something i do everything i can to get it. But this is different, im out of control and i am trying to do everything but there is no changing my dh situation. I dont resent him but have to keep on top of it or i could end up resenting him.
Sorry about the whinge and poor me ladies, i know you are all going through the mill in one way or another.

Sarah xx


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## SHARBARA

i did weightwatchers ....... but then gained 4 stone in pregnancy ............. and i still have 3 of it   
gonna try slimming world in new year shock the system weigh 14 stone now was 11 when strted treatment last time ......... usually sit around 12 and half comfortably ................................          
hate it when im    i eat hence since bfn been pigging


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## Sarah1712

Ive tried WW but just couldnt do it, maybe my heads notin it Im so gutted it was a bfn and if i was pregnant i wouldnt care if i was a beached whale but just want to get to that stage. 4/5 stone is what i have to lose and i dont know where to start. Just so upset aboit treatment. Dh is like a dog on heat and my sex drive has almost vanished, not sure he quite understands things. Feel like   today

Sarah xx


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## Mrs Gooders

Hi Ladies,

I wonder if any one can help me, I had a cancelled cycle on the fifth of December due to poor response.  I have a follow up on the 21st.  In the meantime I was told to do a day 1 blood test, which I did when my period arrived 5 days later.  My results have come back to say I am possibly perimenopausal!  I just wanted to ask has this happened to any one else, is it likely drugs were still in my system and thats altered the bloods, was I supposed to wait until the next cycle?  Sorry for all the questions but I am so confused I am 34 and up until now my blood results have all been normal.  hope someone can put my mind at rest I am struggling a bit. Thanks X


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## SHARBARA

sorry mrs gooders ...not really sure .......


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## Guest

Hi Mrs Gooders - were you told you had low amh? The only reason Im asking as after my failed cycle - I was told  at my follow up the that I had extremley egg reserve. The only thing they can do for my next cycle is try different meds or increase the dosage


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## Mrs Gooders

Hiya, Ive not been told anything yet just concerned about my bloods.
Its all a bit odd!

Good luck to you


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## Shellebell

new home this way
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=278545.0


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