# Failed DEIVF



## atoz (Aug 25, 2013)

After failing own egg IVF took the leap and went for DEIVF.
Three failed cycles later. Really did not expect this.
Has anyone any experience of DEIVF and any idea about number of attempts needed for success?
Should we give up now? Don't know what more we can do?


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## Sonneblume (Jul 4, 2014)

Hi, Atoz 
Sorry to read about your failed DEIVF I'm not sure if you are with Serum in Greece but Penny is really good doing investigations in failed cycles. Like Hytooscopy checking for infection, immunes etc. go over to the Greece sight. People do have failures there  too but also many successes 

Sonneblume


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## Tincancat (Mar 19, 2012)

Hi Atoz 
Not sure where you were having treatment but sure seems like more investigations might be appropriate.  I started with endometrial NK testing at Coventry Hospital with Professors Brosens & Quenby.  It costs around £250 including consultation and if you test positive then they give you a plan.  The Profs are both NHS consultants with research interests in repeated IVF failures and miscarriages.  The money they receive from patients goes back into their research rather than funding an expensive private clinic so I did not feel ripped off as I did at some other clinic.

Feel free to PM me if you want more information or contact details for Professor Brosens clinic 
TCC x


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## morganna (Sep 16, 2008)

It took me 3 tries with donor eggs and PGD.
I don't know why it did not work first 2 times. 
But first 2 times I had the same egg donor.
3 rd time lucky, I chose different egg donor and sperm donor, also had endo scratch, and intralipids, and extra prednisolone.
Please don't give up.
I agree...........penny at serum clinic is amazing! She gets results!!! I could not go there because of my age!
M.xxx


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## mierran (Apr 24, 2009)

Have all 3 cycles been fresh? And with the same clinic? 

Have you had any endometrial scratches?

What was the original diagnosis of your IF? 

Were they all day 3 transfers ir day 5. Were they elective single embryo transfers?

Assuming 2 embryos each time, all fresh cycles from different donors,  I would look at 

menstrual blood test hidden c/ ureaplasma

immune testing level 1 and 2 and nk cells

Angel bumps protocol for sperm quality in particular.

If it was a single fresh cycle with 2 fets then, as far as success rates are concerned that only coumts as one cycle. And esp if eset, still v early days

90% success over 3 cycles is based on us shared risk programs where 1 cycle is fresh transfer and all frosties. 

Sometimes changing clinics can help too - each embryo broth thy culture them in is slightly different and sometimes it seems one clinics suits better than another. 

So please, more info.

how many embryos transfered
what stage transferred at
Were all in same clinic
were they ( if fets ) medicated or natural
did you have endometrial scratch
what immune meds eg clexane, prednisolone  were you on

re your own egg cycles
Did you always make it to transfer
what stage were transfers eg day 2/3/5

Re dh - what were his sperm results?
Have you ever had dna fragmetation test and FISH done on his sperm. 

Esp if transfers usually day 3 , or if large fall off in embryo numbers after day 3 , likely to be a sperm issues.  Also can get sperm where everything looks ok but sperm actually genetically abnormal. Embryos look ok but aren't.  And as you've used his sperm throughout it is a constant. And as half the genes are from him...
has he ever been karyotyped? Even if normal karyotype sperm may not be. Misty b's husband has a v high level abnormal sperm. Out of 5 embryos only one was genetically normal - and it wasn't the best looking one. That embryo is now a couple of weeks old and exercising her lungs regularly,  I bet. Check out mistys past posts for more info.

For me I apear to not get implantation on medicate cycles. Freah cycles ( twins from tandem cycle in cyprus so donor and I stimmed ) and now pregnant after natural fet after 2 bfns from 

Have you had any chemical pregnancies at all?

So a lot more info please 

if eg had 1 fresh and 2 frozen eset  from donor eggs and eg 2 oe transfers set both times it may just be a case of not enough embryos transfered esp if day 3 ( tho can work betrer than blasts in some older women). If you have had say 12 embryos oe ans de transfered and hcg qlways less than 2 I would be looking at eg missing kir receptors, implantation window missmatch ( your body ready to implant 4 days post starting progesterone,  embryos not ready to implant then. Esp problems on high progesterone levels) pphysical problem such as scarring or adhesions.
if low hcg but not rising immune problems more likely. 
Sperm probs can get either 

Hope some of that helps


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## atoz (Aug 25, 2013)

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. It is very much appreciated.

I am 43
4 failed own egg IVFs hence donor route. Last 2 cycles with intralipids, clexane, aspirin,steroids. Biochemical pregnancies / early miscarriage with latter two.

DEIVF was all fresh with PGD
Husbands karyotype is normal; DNA fragmentation index 26.8% (fair to poor); abnormal FISH diploid percentage 0.58%
I am heterozygous for prothrombin III mutation
All day 3 PGD biopsy with D5 transfer
1st time:SET BFN
2nd time: all abnormal nothing went back!
3rd time:SET with clexane, aspirin, steroids as before but no immune treatment.
Have a frozen embryo from the last cycle which we will try at some point. Need a break!

Tried to get endo scratch done with previous UK IVF clinics I had been to. They declined to do it as had DEIVF overseas! Any suggestions on where to go for it?

Looks like Coventry is a leading group. Will definitely explore that. Thank you so much.

We have a lot to consider. That frostie may be our last shot.


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## Tincancat (Mar 19, 2012)

Hi Atoz
Professor Brosens did my scratch and I had treatment abroad.
TCC x


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## atoz (Aug 25, 2013)

Hi Tincancat

That's great
I will try to arrange to see the team in Coventry.
You have offered me some hope as they offer immune therapy too if needed which is the only thing we didn't do last time

Many thanks


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## mierran (Apr 24, 2009)

Hi,
I hope you get info about coventry. I got my scratch in glasgow - a bit of a treck

I have to say what I am sure everyone else has said - have you not considered donor sperm / embryo adoption.  You have had 3 cycles but only 2 embryos transferred. Yes, it only takes one ( and hopefully that one is in the freezer) but the very performance of pgs /pgd reduces success rates by a few per cent. And to only get 3 normal embryos from 3 donor egg cycles.  Not good. Sorry.  

I think a big part of your issue is that you haven't transferred enough good embryos to get ' the sticky one' . Hopefully your frostie is the one, and certainly things to look at include

1 endometrial scratch 1 week before af due

2 natural cycle rather than medicated. Can do triggered natural with progesterone support, or full natural cycle. I had negatives both my medicate fets, and a pos triggered natural

3 - immune bloods nk cells level 1 and 2 . But tbh you are on a lot of immune meds empirically anyway ( clexane and steroids and aspirin are all considered immune treatments ) If your m/c were about 6w definitely worth getting nk cells tested but otherwise... I would add back in intralipids tho.

Other than that , assuming endometrial thickness ok etc at time of transfer

4 - You may find day 3 transfers work better for you ( you don't say what your oe cycles were but as you are a more mature lady I would assume day 2 or 3 transfers not day 5. ) some women have a narrow implantation window and day 5 transfers can be too late. Obviously you cant so pgd/pgs with day 3 transfers.

can you confirm I am reading this right and you had bfp with early m/c in your last 2 oe cycles.

in you de cycles what was your hcg? Was there any implantation? If hcg under 2 either embryos didn't start implanting ie  embryo issue, or there is a mechanical obstruction eg scar tissue preventing implantation.  In that case

5 - hysteroscopy esp a greek one as done through serum in athens. They do implantation cuts which are like an endometrial scratch but last a lot longer ( 6 months )

6 - for completeness I would do the menstrual blood tests for hidden chlamydia and the 7 in 1 test for ureaplasma etc again see serum, athens. 

I hope your frostie works for you. But if not, I think you need to consider what is more important.  Having a child, or having dh's child. 

Big hugs

x x


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