# Natural IVF (ie no drugs) : part 8



## Rachel (Mar 10, 2004)

New home  

Lots of love and luck to you all     

Rachel x


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Thank you everyone for all your kind congratulations - we are gradually getting used to the idea as we had been prepared by the clinic that it was a low chance of success - my last words to the consultant before we went for EC were 'I will prove you wrong' and it looks like we did! 

Wiggie - good for you 2 embies perfect and a day 2 transfer - perfect - I hope you aare going for Acupuncture after your transfer or on the Monday - I am sending you all my positive thought and luck for the next 2 weeks.

Claire - Any decisions yet on how you might want to move forward?

Juicy - have a lovely time at you cousins wedding and more importantly in the swanky hotel 
I am wishing youeself and Claire all the luck in the world - lets get some more BFP's on this thread 

Incon - hope you are ok

Edenbliss - thanks for your kind words - are you having any treatment at the moment ?

Sally - hello and hope you are well

Lorraine xx


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

LORRAINE - YAYYYYYYYY!!!!! I'm so happy for you!  Just goes to show that sometimes, against the odds it can happen.

I am so happy for you  hearing a BFP gives us hope and keeps us battling on eh?


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

yes I hope so I want you all to have the same boost I did

Lorraine x


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## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Thanks Eden for your positive words and to Lorraine for your messages and the tip about the day 6 acupuncture

As you say, I only need 2 embies - and in fact it only takes one to get a BFP! - so hopefully they are snuggling down as we speak. As the embryologist said, the womb is the best place for them.

Hi to everyone else and enjoy the rest of the weekend

wiggie xxx


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Put your feet up Wiggie and let those embies snuggle in nice and tight  

Anyone catch the discussion on The Wright Stuff this morning?  I had to leave for my chiro appt just as Zita West started talking! Was it any good?  Sharon Davies had 8 cycles..... yikes


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

ooh I miseed that I wonder if its on line - how was Zita West - do you find it beneficial?


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## ManiH (Dec 13, 2007)

Hi everyone

Just a quick post to keep the thread,, im rubbish at finding them again when they move!!!

Mani


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## ClaireP (Feb 18, 2005)

Hi girls

Has it sunk in yet Lorraine?!!! did you know your hcg levels and when do you have a scan?  so pleased for you!! 

I qualify in June as reflexologist but live in cheshire so I guess that's no use to anyone !!! - just finished all my case studies what a weight off!! I'm going to specialise in infertililty etc as obviously we all know what it's like and i often find that many complementary therapists aren't that clued up about hormone levels, vits etc so wanted to be able to really help people -... going to do a maternity reflexology diploma as well so I'm trained for pregnancy/labour etc as well as covering infertility.

Still in a big quandry about what to do!  got follow up appt with ARGC at 2 on 29th May and Create at 12 - I wonder how long I'll be kept waiting at Create as I changed my appt to 2 with my clinic just in case! these places are never on time!

Can't decide whether to try my luck with a low stimm cycle and even see if they'll freeze my embies and then when immune system quietened down have transfer after that... or even move my frozen ones to ARGC then? bit cheeky you think?  and how presumptious of me that'll it will work out that nicely!!! mind you if I only get one fertilised egg can it not be your decision to freeze it?  arrghh!!!! no idea what to do!!

Or just wait a lot longer and have one go with ARGC or Lister possibly and take dhea etc. it doesn't help being a libran you know --- I am so indecisive    plus money is a huge factor!!

Juicy - will be interesting to see what ARGC say to me about my protocol this time given the disaster of last---- i doubt they will suggest the protocol Lister have said for you... sounds like that's what I need.... it drives me mad at ARGC that they want your fsh to be right and your oestrodial levels, when they finally hit right one month .. you go for  scan and then they often say there's a dominant follicle so no go!

Wiggie - good luck and hope your embies are fast burying in there!!  sit in the sunshine lots  I'm sure that helped me when i had an fet...

love and luck to rest of you

Claire x


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Fab news about your reflexology Claire - i hope you are able to build up a good client base soon

If you have the time then I would say you have nothing to lost by doing a low stim approach - go for it 

I must admit I deliberately did not ask for my levels as if it was low I would worry too much as to whether it was increasing sufficiently each day and I am not given anohter blood test so have nothing to compare with anyway. First scan is DH's birthday 4th June

I must admit it felt funny being at work today knowing that only one of them knows!

Hope everyone is well

Wiggie - hope this week is flying by for you   

Lorraine xx


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## luckyinluv (May 11, 2008)

hello ladies, 

Can I join your thread to ask a couple of questions?  

I have just finished the 2ww on my 2nd IVF (standard) and got a BFN!  

My hubby and I are not quite ready to throw in the towel yet but want to look at our options.  We are self funded and promised ourselves we would try three times and then call it a day so that means my next time would be my last (very scary thought).  

My question is this, what is natural IVF, I have heard that it is less expensive but also has lower success rates?  

Hope you can shed some light on this for me? 

Thanks


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Hello guys...  hope you are all well... 

Congratulations on recent bfp...LL...  fingers crossed for the levels...


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Lorraine, I haven't had time to read it - so it went in the container!  Dear old Zita will be waiting for me when I get out there, lol.


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## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi Lucky

Juicy did one cycle natural IVF, I'm sure you could PM her about it..... Good luck with your decision-making

Mani - good luck for your next cycle in July, I'm sure the appointment that you mentioned on the other thread will be fine in  terms of starting soon after, as they can usually get the drugs out very quickly once they have agreed you can go ahead

Hi to Lorraine, Incon,  Julianne, ClaireP, Eden, have a great bank hol weekend

Wiggie xx


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Hello - just wanted to   to say Hi and hope everyone is well

Lorraine x


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## ClaireP (Feb 18, 2005)

Hi Lorraine,

Just wondered how you are getting on? do you feel pregnant yet? it must still be surreal and have you had a scan yet?  

this thread is very quiet these days..... I had my review with ARGC and Create but I am still none the wiser about what to do, Geeta was very straight talking as I was led to believe and said that I had about a 10% chance of it working which I thought was really low, on a mild stimm cycle providing I get enough follies to start with.  ARGC still think I should have another go so they aren't writing me off but it such high stakes there with all the money especially the immune part of the tx and they said I may only get between 3 and max of 6 eggs if I try again.

anyway just a quickie for now as it's dead late

Claire x


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Gosh Claire thats such a hard decision to make isnt it - there is so much to weigh up as the price I am sure is very different between create and argc.

What I can advise is that one clnics idea of mild is different to anothers so in my expereince at Create I was on 150 Gonal F (and got 8 eggs even though they only planned for 3-5) but when I transferred to LFC this was decreased to 100 (expected to get 3-5 eggs) and I only got the 1 egg so it might be worth actually getting the medication protocols for you to help with your decision. Different clinic definitely interpret the word MILD differently!!

As for me I have a scan on 4th June. I am starting to feel sicky from about 3am which isnt great as I am missing valuable sleep but I cant complain otherwise .

I am itching to get back in the swimming pool but have ben advised to leave it for 3 months

Take care and let me know what you decide

Lorraine x


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Hey how is everyone?  Incon are you OK?  Wiggie, how is the 2ww going?

I have news (but as usual for me, nothing about fertility issues).  I got my NZ visa this week  I've got about 4 weeks to go and then I'm joining Rich in Auckland as a resident.  Cool huh?


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## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi Julianne

Fantastic news re: your visa!

My 2ww is over, unfortunately a BFN. We are speaking to other clinics over the summer to see whether worth another go with own eggs. Off on hols to Corsica next week.

The good news is that LFC do a free 15 mins consultation!! Have booked to go and see them on 25th June. Also done an online consult with IVI Alicante. And trying to arrange an appointment with the Lister.

Hope everyone else is OK

Wiggie xx


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Wiggie - yell if you want any info on LFC as of course thats where I moved to

Hope you are doing ok- countdown to holiday! 

Lorraine xx


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Oh Wiggie, I'm so sorry


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## Sheldon (Jan 10, 2008)

Has anyone been to St Georges House Clinic and had natural or mild IVF? if so please could you share some of your experiences?

Thanks

Sheldon


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Hi Sheldon
We went to Create health st georges house for our first cycle but sadly it didnt work for us
Due to admin issues with the clnic we decided to move to the mild protocol at London Fertility Clinic and for us this worked which we are delighted about and it was nearly 1000 cheaper in the end than what we spent at St georges house

good luck - PM me if you want any other questions answered

Lorraine xx


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

hey Lorriane, is everything still tickety boo?


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

hiya julianne - not long now until your permanent trip back to NZ - bet you cant wait

yes all is fine this end - well I hope so anyway - 7 week scan showed a melted snowman type shape and a heart beat so splodge is definitely on board.

Not sure I can say I am enthused by MS but I am not allowed to maon I guess.  Brushing my teeth has certainly become the largest challenge in my life at the moment

Happy homecoming to you  

Lorraine xx


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Hey Lorraine - well done on scan!  sorry about MS and of course you're allowed to moan!  keep well x

Wiggie, I've been awol for a while so sorry I missed your tx/news but really, really sorry about your BFN.  Good luck with the consults - you never know, we might cross paths at the Lister yet  

hello ClaireP, Julianne...hope packing/planning going well Julianne

ClaireP - are you 'official' reflexologist now - congrats if so!


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

how are you though Juicy ?

Lorraine x


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Hi Lorraine, i'm good thanks - have had a much needed hol (though FAR too short!! not enough at all after the last hellish 6 months with IF diagnosis/tx and nightmares at work!)

have not been checking in so much purely for the reason that it was so depressing coming back from holiday , I didn't want to compound that by becoming re-obsessed with IF straight after having had a break!

am fine otherwise though and gradually getting my head round the fact that it is not long till our next go (new protocol for me, with clomid) and ...that it might even work!

shame we haven't heard from Sally since her BFN same day as me.


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## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi all

Am just back from hols - certainly needed the break! Would definitely recommend Corsica as a place to visit  - lovely food, wine and scenery. 

Managed to stay away from FF for 3 days after returning - but coulnd't help myself this evening!

Thanks Julianne and Juicy for your wishes. Juicy - yes we may see each other yet at the Lister. We have an  initial consult there on the 4th. I can't believe how long it took me to complete their patient history questionnaire!

Hi to everyone else

Wiggie xx


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Nice one Wiggie.... Corsica sounds lovely.  Hope your consult with LFC today is useful

My AF is due on 10 July (ace, my birthday - just what I need!) so I expect I'll be having scans and stuff at the Lister around the end of July/beginning of August.  

Am starting to brick it a bit, mainly because I've got to start with the Pill for at least a fortnight and am dreading it - the one and only time I've been on a combined pill, my boobs just hurt really bad for three weeks so I stopped....and given I am trying to lose weight, I am dreading that it will make me put it on...we can't win really, can we!


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

wow - good luck Juicy - bet you cant wait to start

Hey we are both crabby cancers as I am 4 days behind you - stubborn and secretive thats me down to a T with a tiny bit of moodiness thrown in for good measure    Luckily there are lots of good things to being a crabby cancer too !  

Wiggie - hope LFC went well - will be really interested to get your take on it but having looked at Creates new prices LFC are very competitive which is never a bad thing

Love to everyone

Lorraine x


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Came on to see if I could pick anyone's brain but its so quiet on here I am not sure if any of you will know...

Who is Sonnett at the clinic? Is he/she at Create or St Georges? I need to contact them about my notes but not sure which clinic they are at..

I though someof you may have the low down before I start phoning around.

Thanks in advance
xx


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Sorry Figet dont know that name at all I I had my fisrt lot at Create - it does not ring bells at all

Sounds strange that your notes should be lost with someone??


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Sorry my fault.. no they arent lost, just I emailed Geeta direct, she has then forwarded the mail on to Sonnett, who I havent heard of before, but its over a year since I was last there so turnover of staff and all that I guess... will just call raynes park, am sure thats where they are anyway  

just wondered if anyone knew this new person is all.... Ok have caleed she is very nice...... but    they have moved... when did that happen


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

oh yes we noticed that they are opposite whenre they were before - just trying to tihnk - sonnett isnt her reg for SGH is she??


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

It's Lorraine's birthday on Monday - have a great day Lorraine!!!


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Wiggie, how did your consult go?  Any new plan yet?  Hope you're well and liked the Lister xx


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## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Happy belated birthday to Lorraine!

Juicy - yes we liked Dr Tao at the Lister and think we are going to do my next cycle there. They proposed exactly the same protocol as Guys for my next attempt (450 units Menopur on a short protocol compared to 300 gonal F as previously)  but their success rates are higher for my age group.  

I really don't know whether changing clinics will have any effect - but psychologically it feels better than going back to Guys where I will just feel like "here we go again". Plus Guys are moving to a bigger unit around the time I will be doing my next cycle (end of August, if all goes to plan) which may cause some havoc - although they have said they will maintain continuity during the transfer.

How did you find the Lister for your cycle there? Are the drugs prices reasonable if you go through them? Looks like you are due to start your next cycle quite soon - best of luck.

Wiggie xx


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

thanks Wiggie.  I feel keen to get started now to be honest.  It feels so bizarre being on the pill - not been on it since I was 19 - it didn't agree with me then and I'm glad it's only for two weeks now!

We found the Lister very good on each visit - my only concern about this cycle is I've read people saying on the Lister thread that they didn't get their own room on the day of egg collection (due to the refurbishment works I think).  It was nice having my own room last time, it's not much to ask for the money we pay!  

I didn't buy all my drugs through them - the menopur was expensive there so I got it from Fazeley's who were v good (also cheapest for cetrotide). Oddly, the trigger was cheaper there than anywhere else I phoned so I did get that there.  I was on 450 but am doing the pill/clomid/300 menopur protocol this time.  Hopefully the menopur will suit you wherever you cycle and you'll get a result this time

We had our follow up with Jaya Parikh and all the nice things people say about her are true - she's great.  They do tell you though that the chances are you will see someone different for consult, EC and ET - unless you specifically request someone.  The nurses do all the scans and we found them fine and they're very quick to get back to phone calls and emails (so are the docs actually)

If Guys are moving, it's probably not a bad idea to swerve it until they have bedded into their new lab - the lab facilities are so important, i feel.  Plus, don't knock the psychological effect of a change of scenery!  But good luck whatever you decide - keep me posted?!


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## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Thanks Juciy for the tips re: meds - will deffo follow up with Fazeley's if I can't get my GP to fund the drugs for this round. Do you have to collect from Fazeley's - or do they courier it to you?

At Guys you don't get continuity in terms of who you see for EC and ET - it all depends who is rostered on the day. Personally I don't have a problem with that, as long as they all know what they are doing!

Will keep you all posted....

Wiggie xx


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Wiggie, Fazeley's sent them guaranteed delivery - arrived by parcelforce next morning, cost £9 so not much when i was saving £300!
look forward to hearing what you decide x


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

hiya Wiggie and Juicy

SO is it go go go again for both of you now or Wiggie are you waiting a bit longer - Perky was at the lister as well and really talked highly of them glad you are feeling confident

am keeping everything crossed for you both

Lorraine xx


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## Louise68 (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi,

I hope you don't mind me barging in but I was wondering if anyone has heard anything about Create Health now offering the whole service ie. lab work too (and no longer using the LFC for EC and ET)?  I think they're starting up this summer and I'm thinking of going back there in Sep/Oct to try again.  (I was there a year ago and did some controlled natural cycles).  I just wondered if anybody knew any more?  I just slightly worry about teething problems...perhaps I shouldn't.



Alba


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Hi Alba - teething problems were exactly why DH and I moved as we couldnt imagine they would run a smooth ship considering the problems without doing EC and ET

Good luck whatever you decide

LFC are doing mild protocols for 2885 all in including ICSI and FET free cycle if needed - so dont dismiss LFC they were wonderful and we are now expecting

Lorraine


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Lorraine, being lazy here when I could look myself but do you know offhand if LFC will do a controlled natural cycle?  How're you feeling today - shopping for mat. clothes?! 
Hi Alba good luck for your next cycle.  Are you Spanish?  My brother's Mexican MiL is called Alba so it's my niece's middle name - it's very pretty

Hi Wiggie!


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

I dont know Juicy to be honest but then considering the mild cycle is only Puregon 100 from day 2 its pretty natural anyway as I only had one egg

if you pm me you e mail address I will send you all the blurb and the admission ladies e mail etc

You are sticking with the Lister for the time being though arent you?

Lorraine x

ps dont talk to me about mat clothes they are foul on the whole - why cant somewhere like Oasis do mat clothes - I just want what I would normally buy but with elastic  

At the moment I have bought a couple of tops and do my jeans up with a hairband


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## Louise68 (Oct 26, 2007)

Thanks for your replies, Lorraine and Juicy.  
I know things can often appear to be a bit muddled at Create but they've always seemed to me to be pretty sound on the clinical side (shouldn't really expect anything else I suppose).  I've still got time to think about what to do anyway and am looking at various options at the moment.  Juicy, I'm not Spanish but I live in Spain, speak Spanish and have a Spanish husband and the name's not mine either; I just like it!


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Hi Alba - yes I would agree I couldnt fault Create clnically but administration is another issue altogether

L x


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Hi Lorraine!  Glad you're still getting your jeans done up  
Funny you should say that about Oasis mat clothes, I always thought that Next had a really good selection (my sis' husband is a branch manager so she used her staff discount for clothes throughout both her pgs).  but I looked at their latest collection and there's not much in there!  though their jeans are supposed to be comfy for when yours get too much!!
Thanks for offer re LFC contact details, we did have a consult there after our first BFN for the mild cycle so have got those thanks and we do really like them but even though your cycle was very mild, it still works out at £2855, that's a good £500 more than a Create natural cycle... 

Alba, sorry about your prev BFN and good luck with the planning - would you keep us updated if you go to Raynes Park?  thanks x


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

ah but dont forget Create would then charge more if you need ICSI Juicy where as LFC include it in the cost - might be worth chekcing out as I have seen the prices for create have just been updated

how is Lister??

Lorraine xx

ps - yes next mat clothes are not the best - long live my hairband thats holding my jeans together


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## Louise68 (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi!
The latest price info I have written down for Create Health (not using LFC for EC/ET but doing the whole thing themselves) is as follows:
Mild IVF £2,290; Mild ICSI £2,790
Natural/Controlled IVF £1,490 (haven't got ICSI price for this).  And they do a special price for 3 treatments I think.
Plus of course the add-ons like drugs, bloods and HFEA fee.

So I guess there's not that much difference between LFC and CH for ICSI but there is for IVF.  I'm going to check CH's prices again anyway.  I'm also looking into IVI here in Spain who are also willing to do natural or mild as long as they're happy you know the success rate is lower but I need to find out their prices first as it could still work out cheaper to go to London especially since the euro is so strong and my savings are in £s!


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## odette (Nov 3, 2006)

Hi Alba
I am currently at IVI now fro DE and before that Mild protocol.

If you have any questions let me know.

IVI are a fantastic clinic with above avetrage results.

I responded better to tx here than in England.

odettexx


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Odette!  Just seen your news re your embies - what a great number, that is SO exciting!!!!  wishing you and your dh lots of love and luck for ET and a BFP!!!

really glad you've got company over there too - hope wendy's tx is successful too 

 

Hi Wiggie, Alba and Lorraine - thanks for info Alba.  Lorraine I hadn't thought of using ICSI on a natural cycle, it's an interesting thought because it would be so disappointing to get the one egg and it not fertilise.  I do remember having a very anxious night in March on that score and being deliriously happy the next morning when we found out we had fert!

Hope you're feeling well


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## ophelia (Sep 27, 2005)

Hi ladies,

I was wondering if I could join you. I've just had a failed ICSI attempt where I only got 1 egg which was immature and didn't fertilize.
The time before that I only had 2 eggs so I have now been told to try Natural IVF(or ICSI in my case).

I'm a poor responder so was thinking it could be worth a shot if I don't produce anymore eggs with full stimms anyway.
I have a few questions but wanted to say hi to Juicy.  And huge congrats to Lorraine on her BFP. 

I have heard both natural and mild IVF being mentioned on here. What is the difference?

For my natural IVF my Dr have told me to have scans on day 3,5 and 7 and when follie is 13mm to start Cetrotide to stop ovulation along with 300iu Gonal F daily until EC.

My questions are:

When doing a natural IVF cycle is it possible to get more than one egg? ( I read Lorraine got quite a few eggs on one cycle and 1 on the other)

How is it possible to get more than one egg on a natural IVF cycle?

Does it depend on how many follies you have on your first scan? ie if you have 4 follies they will all grow?

If I have 3-4 follies on my first scan will they all only grow if I start stimms on day 2/3 or will they all still grow if I was to start some drugs halfway through as I've been told to do for my next go?

What are the normal dose of stimms? 300iu sounds quite high for a natural IVF.

If I only have 1 follie on my first scan will I still need some stimms when it reaches 13mm or is it better to let it grow naturally with no drugs until EC?

What are the different protocols for a natural/mild IVF cycle?

Any feedback and personal experiences is more than welcome. 

Love/Ophelia


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Hi Ophelia

Firstly  

Secondly - Well done with the questions - I am really interested in the answers too. Maybe this could be something for me too.

I really believe that for each of us there is a secret code (drug combo) - its just trying to crack the code that is difficult!!! 

Speak soon x

A x


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Hi Ally  
Hi Ophelia

Right well I can only tell you what I know from my experience and my reading around it and you'd be surprised how little there is to read;

O, You described initially what Create Health call a controlled natural cycle - once I started taking the cetrotide to control ovulation, they also gave me 150 gonal f to ensure the follicle kept growing.  I had a scan day 3, then day 10, with the cetrotide/gonal f on nights 5-9.  The trigger on day 10 because follie was 19mm.  EC 36 hours later as usual.  ET two days later (day 14).  A totally natural cycle is without the cetrotide etc, so you do risk ovulating early if you don't have it.

I understand that it might be possible to get two eggs at EC on a natural cycle, because some follicles will contain two eggs, and some people will have more than one follicle develop even on a mild dose. The price list for this cycle specifically mentions an additional cost (of course!) if more than one egg is retrieved so it must happen but I guess I wouldn't count on it.

'Mild' IVF is a short protocol - no downregging because Geeta believes it is not necessary to hyperstimulate when 5-7 eggs will often give a good result and the eggs will be better quality.  I went to see her about it when I thought I only had tubal factor (thanks NHS for keeping me informed) as I had read interviews with her and thought it was the right approach for me

I believe she would have given me about 175 gonal f a day had I proceeded with the mild cycle but then I realised I wasn't a suitable candidate for it because there is 'not a lot of activity' in my ovaries and they needed more stimms.  She prescribed 300 a day but in the end I moved to the Lister and they gave me 450.

I'm sure Lorraine will tell you what dose she had for her mild cycle with LFC - I know it was Puregon but I don't think she said what the dose was.  i'm pretty sure she started on day 2 as normal though so am interested to hear that you've been told you can start stimms halfway through a cycle

As to protocols, I actually asked Geeta by email if she would use Clomid on a natural or a mild cycle - I got a reply saying come in for a chat.  Given how long that might have taken, I decided not to!  But in theory, I don't see why that shouldn't work.  It might recruit another follicle or two on a mild cycle - I think you two are both asking about this because for PRs, lower stimms are probably the way, esp after a couple of cycles on the trot.  

Sorry I can't help more on protocols but for the controlled natural, it's a pretty straightforward process - I only had 2 scans and sedation for EC - it was all quite easy and did not prepare me for the stresses of a medicated cycle and worrying about follicle sizes/response/number of eggs!

I think I've said somewhere else, if we had a bottomless pit of money, i would have a natural cycle every month between txs but sadly that's not the case.... 

Ally, your AF came back in April didn't it...have you been ovulating regularly?  It could be good for you.  It's such a shame it's not more widely available here (though the Jinemed do it for a good price, right Ophelia?)

hope that helps a bit xx


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

hello

Juicy  -couldnt have explained that all better myself  

I was on Puregon 100 and the only reason they think I didnt respond was simply stress - obviously I dont care now but it just goes to show that your body will eliminate all the drugs from you if it can 

Lorraine xx


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Lorraine, wow, really - it was that low a dose?  I had no idea, how amazing - in that case your two follies weren't that bad were they?!  
would they have expected you to get about 5 on that dose if you had responded 'well'?  (obviously, your response pretty blimmin good in the end!!)

x


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## ophelia (Sep 27, 2005)

Hi Ally.  How's things with you?

Juicy- Wow! Thanks for that.  Will your next TX be a natural cycle? 
I still think 300iu seem quite a high dose, maybe 150iu will be enough since we will only go for the one egg? I normally need a high dose (on a short protocol) to get some eggs but if it's only 1 follie in a natural cycle I don't see why a high dose would make a difference.  Any thoughts on that?

Your protocol on your controlled natural cycle sounds similar to the one I will be having at the Jinemed as you had stimms on day 5-9 which I assume is roughly when my follie will be about 13mm (on day 5) and then continue stimms till trigger for EC. I will defo have Cetrotide as don't want to risk ovulating early.
I assume you started Cetrotide on day 5 as well?

Lorraine- How come you got more eggs on your first cycle? Was it a different protocol or did you just have more follies to start with on your first scan compare to your first scan on your second cycle? Did you start stimms on day 2 on both your cycles?

Did you only have one follie/egg on your last cycle then at EC? It all turned out good for you for sure! 

The costs of a controlled natural cycle at LCF and Create does it include the drugs as well as scans/EC/ET? And how much is the additional cost if you get more than 1 egg?

Love/Ophelia


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Hi Ophelia

I had 8/9 follies each time but the second time round only 2 grew and then when it came to collection there was only one egg - they put it down to stress but obviously now I dont mind what the problem was.  Thje one thing I am pleased about is that it was suggested that we abandon cycle which I agreed with but DH said no way that we had paid so lets just roll with things and see what happens - lucky for us I listened to DH

I had puregon on second cycle and gonal F on first cycle and started day 2 each time but had 5 days of clmid as well on the first cycle before starting the Gonal F so actually started gonal F at day 6 I think it was - both clnics were very good at scanning and monitoring

Good Luck with what you choose to do

Lorraine xx


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Ophelia, you are probably right that 300 was actually a full stimm rather than mild but given my stats, Geeta clearly thought the usual 'mild' stimm dose wouldn't do much for me.  No doubt you would be prescribed a diff amount (I ended up having 450 menopur on the full medicated cycle at Lister and got 4 eggs on that)

My next cycle at the Lister is the pill/clomid/menopur but down to 300 menopur this time.  I had thought that if funds allowed, a natural cycle the month after that might be a good idea because if there was still some clomid knocking around down there, I might even have 2 follies next month?!  but not a firm plan at all yet.  will see what my response is like this cycle... 

Whatever price Create quote will not include drugs and they're quite expensive for gonal f (£140 for a 300iu pen at March prices) but had no problem about giving me a prescription to take away.  Scans are included.  They were outsourcing EC and ET to the LFC but as far as we know, those have been transferred to her facility in Raynes Park now as Alba said.  In fact, Alba says it's now £1490, which is £400 cheaper than the previous total.  You'd only need one or two LH/E2 tests on a cont nat cycle.  

also, yes it was cetrotide for the same time.  I've just looked at the price list and it says "expect to pay stimulated cycle rates for LFC work if multiple eggs are collected in a controlled natural cycle" - but no figure given and now that they are not using LFC anymore, you could probably haggle with her about that!

Lorraine, v interesting you got clomid on your first cycle.  I hope it does something for me!

night xx


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

morning Juicy

Personally Ididnt do well on clomid as when I went for ec my lining was still only 7.8 so I do wonder if thats one of the reasons my cycle failed the first time - its probably not got anything to do with that but I like to find rationale in everything  

Its certainly a mind field isnt it!

Good luck - you must stop your pill soon dont you?

L x


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## Louise68 (Oct 26, 2007)

Odette, thanks for your comments re IVI; I was pleased to hear you've had a good experience with them.  They certainly look professional – good website for eg.  I contacted their main clinic in Valencia but will probably attend their clinic in Seville, or at least go for a consultation there.  I'm just not sure how expensive they are yet.

Ophelia, my experiences of natural and mild are very similar to Juicy's ie. cetrotide to block ovulation and 150 Gonal F to keep it growing once follicle of a decent size.  With regard to the number of eggs on a natural cycle they did actually retrieve 4 eggs at EC on one of my natural attempts BUT out of 4 only 1 fertilised so the other 3 were probably immature.

On my one and only mild cycle I took Buserelin from Day 2 and 150 Gonal F from Day 3  but really felt unwell throughout and was coasted after 1st scan due to levels of E2 that were too high.  The cycle was unfortunately abandoned for reasons not related to the tx in the end. 

I'm really interested in the use of Clomid in a mild cycle – Lorraine or Juicy, would you be able to tell me what the advantages are and in what sort of cases it is used?  My main objective is to avoid stimulation as much as poss and get a few good eggs so could it be something for me?  Geeta’s never mentioned it to me though.  (Could be my age -  I’m 40).

By the way, I got a price list yesterday from Create which they said will apply WHEN they get the HFEA licence so they've obviously not been given the green light yet.


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Girls - clomid was disastrous for me. This was at the ARGC.  Viagra didn't help to rectify it.  My lining was only 5.7. So, no wonder it didn't work.    Previously always had decent lining.  IN mildly stimultated cycle it was 9.4 on day 10 so probably higher for EC 3 days later.  I wouldn't do it personally.  It seriuosly thins the lining!


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Alba, the Lister told me that the aim of clomid is to 'recruit' a few additional follicles for stimulation.  Other people have said that they end up with more follicles but not necessarily an egg in each.  However, the Lister seem to be having some success with this protocol. 

I am aware of the lining issue so will be watching that and going for some acu during stimms to help with it.  

Incon, I know you are off on the DE journey - wishing you every success and hope to hear from you pregnant and happy very soon!


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Good luck to you Juicy!


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Icon - how are you doing? 

Lorraine x


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## ophelia (Sep 27, 2005)

Hi all,

Thanks to Juicy, Lorraine, Alba for your help. 

Incon- Good luck!! 

Lorraine- Good job you listened to DH indeed! 
So is starting low stimms on day 2 the norm for a natural IVF then? I'm wondering why my clinic has asked me to only start stimms when follie/follies is 13mm. 

As a poor responder with only a few follies each time maybe 100iu would be too low a dose? Maybe that's why they want me on 300iu. But then you would think my follie would grow naturally anyway without drugs so 100iu might be enough after all? Gosh, it's so confusing. 

Was it a natural cycle you had on your last go? I'm wondering since your clinic wanted to cancel when only 2 grew when 2 follies would be all you need for a natural cycle, right?

Also, when you got more eggs on your first go did you have to pay for a full stimmed IVF cycle rather than a natural IVF priced cycle?

Puregon and Gonal F are the same drug so why do you think you responded better on Gonal F, just pure luck? I'm curious as I've been told to be on Gonal F but also have some Puregon that needs using up.

Juicy- Had a look at Create's website and it said the price for a Controlled natural ICSI is £1890 but you have to pay for scans and bloods on top of that. (anyone kow how much the scans and bloods are?)
Initial consultation fee is £160 which I assume I would need to have before having TX there. Would I have to go down there in person for the consult or can it be done via phone or email?

Also will there be a HFEA fee on top of the prices on their website or is it included in the price already?

Good luck for your upcoming TX.   When is it you start?

Alba-You said you got 4 eggs on your natural cycle, did you have 4 follies before you started the cycle by any chance on your first antral follicle scan? It seems when I got 4 eggs once I had 4 follies on my first scan and when I got 2 eggs I only had 2 follies at first scan. I'm just trying to figure out if that's the way it goes.

Did you end up having to pay for a full IVF cycle when they discovered you got 4 eggs at EC even though it was meant to be a natural cycle? And which clinic were you with?

Love/Ophelia


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## Louise68 (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi Ophelia,

My experience is that for the mild stimulation cycle injections start on Day 2.

But in the case of a natural 'controlled' cycle the injections start much later on depending upon the progress of the ripening follicle.  Basically they 'control' the timing of ovulation by monitoring the growth of the follicle and when it reaches a certain size (14mm or something) they get you to inject (in my case) Cetrotide to prevent spontaneous ovulation.  This drug also suppresses your natural production of FSH which is needed to keep the follicle growing so to replace what you would have naturally produced they get you to inject Gonal F as well.  But this is not stimulation; it's just a method of controlling the timing of ovulation.  It sounds to me as though this is what your clinic is suggesting.

When I got 4 eggs I don't really know how many follicles I started out with but I do have a polycystic ovary and on that occasion all 4 came from the polycystic side.  And no, they didn't charge me any extra - how lucky was that!


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

do you know the more I read the more I think that each clinic tweaks things and labels them to what they feel they want  / what they feel is right - natural / mild seems to have lots of different rules - I guess as much as anything it depends on what research is being done and what is new in terms of possible success etc

Lorraine x


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## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi all

Welcome to Ophelia, and welcome back to Incon, Odette and Alba. Good luck to all of you with your treatments....

Just in terms of the puregon vs gonal f debate - when we went for a consult at the LFC they said that puregon is stronger than gonal f, and that 75 units of puregon equals 100 units of gonal f - so generally they presrcibe lower amounts. But apart from that I think they are the same. Menopur however contains both LH and FSH, which I have been prescribed for my next cycle.

In terms of the number of follicles that end up developing, I think it does vary from person to person - but in my last cycle (300 gonal f, short protocol) I had 8 follies as the baseline scan, got 6 eggs of which 2 were mature, and 2 were fertilised. I always find that one ovary responds better than the other as well!

Juciy - looks like you are onto stimms soon! Can I ask why they have prescribed a lower amount of menopur for you this time? I'll be on 450 units this time.

Also how have people found using monupur - I understand that it comes in a powder form and then you have to mix it up before injecting?!

Wiggie xx


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Hey Wiggie

When are you starting next cycle?

L x


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Hey y'all.  I hope you're all doing well.  I'm glad Lorraine's little emby is snuggled away and growing well.  I've been having crisis after crisis - which I won't go into, but suffice to say I'm not going to NZ now and I'm currently pretty heartbroken.  

At least 3 people this week have asked me if I'm 'going it alone' on the IVF front.  My first answer was "no" because I've always worried that it would be selfish, and I have no male role models in my life.  For a little boy this would be a massive identity problem, and for a girl it would rob her of the daddy love that they need when they are looking for somebody to wind around their little finger.  This is just my feeling, I know plenty of people go ahead and do it, because let's face it, there are not many good men out there, and even fewer who will go through this hell with us.  BUT, I'm 38.5, time is running out.  I don't know, I'm temmpted to think 'to hell with it' and cycle on my own.  I have problems with the idea of an anonymous donor too, and can't think of any friends I could ask.


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

oh my goodness Julianne I am so sorry that your life seems to have been turned upside down



Lorraine xx


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Julianne, that all sounds really rotten - poor you, how dreadful after all the plans and the excitement.  Is it definitely all over, no hope of a reconciliation?  So sorry you are hurting    

It's probably the wrong time to be thinking about IVF IMHO simply for the reason that while you are grieving a relationship, you can't really think positively about having a baby and weigh up the pros and cons of known/unknown donor rationally - can you wait till your head's a bit clearer ? 

I think going it alone is hard but probably not as hard as not having a child at all, which is probably why people have been asking you that qu - I'm sure you would have plenty of support and role models will naturally come into a child's life anyway I reckon because you make new friendships as a parent

Lorraine, love the slippers!  Hope you're feeling well and enjoying things now - has the morning sickness gone completely?  My cycle is going better this time -the clomid flare has done the job and I have 11 follicles (despite FSH being 11.4) !!!  Riches beyond our wildest dreams!  so am really hoping we get two embryos this time.  As Incon predicted, the clomid has affected my lining so I have the joys of 'vagifem' tablets for the next week, hope they work!


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

ooh Vagifem - nice Juicy  

So pleased 11 follies that is great news - when is EC predicted for - am so exicted and keeping everything crossed for you and scattering lots of   of course as well

nope MS is still with me I am afraid - got a bit down about it this week as its just so exhausting but must not complain at least it is less than it was so we are going in the right direction  

Take very good care of yourself and look forward ot the updates

Lorraine xx


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

oh no really, it's still bad?  god how do you manage at work?  I am worried about that myself because it's hard enough to concentrate at work at the best of times but when you are feeling pukey, and tired, it must be awful....

EC should be on Monday - they will confirm tomorrow at scan.  Will be a relief to get there as am pretty uncomfortable esp on the left as there are 8 follies on that ovary!  Also v tired and looking forward to time off work

Ah seen your thread about the stitch - poor you, that sounds like a worry  - sorry they couldn't give you better reassurance


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

oh I feel chilled about it now - sure that will change again like the wind  

Fingers crossed they do do EC on Monday

As for coping with MS at work you just do and sometimes if you are busy it does take your mind off it which is good - tiredness is another thing all together and is horrible - I have become a bit of a sciver in the nicest way possible so for example today I am working on updating policies from home - hence I will have a sleep this afternoon - a much more civilised way to manage things although I know I cant have an excuse for working at home every week! 

L x


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

Hi everyone,

May I join you? Think we are going to give Natural IVF a go, following a peek around Create today at their open day. Very interested to read about the rest of your experiences', as we are very much still learning about the whole process   and have never had any treatment before.

We live about ten mins away from Create and have an appointment booked on 26th for the initial consultation and 29th for a scan, then hoping to get cracking! I know the numbers and stats aren't great but can't help being super excited  

Good luck to you all,

Beegey xx


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Crikey Beegey, surprised you can find this thread, it's slipped down the board a bit!  Welcome, glad you enjoyed the open day, I know another FFer who was going today too.

That is exciting that you've got a consult and a scan fixed!  let us know how it goes, wishing you luck for both

Lorraine....any improvement in the MS and other symptoms?  you feeling 'blossoming' yet!!  Hope you're well xx


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Hiya Beegey and Juicy

Beegey not long until your star buck wait for Mrs N to see you - did I tell you where to park by the way?

Juicy - you must be PUPO I really hope and the cycle wasnt abandoned for any reason - how are you?

Well if I am honest I feel fairly horrid still been sick every day Monday to Friday but then good yesterday and today (but then its only 08.10   )  I certainly dont feel blossoming but a hormonal mess that cries about the fact she cant find a pair of jeans that are nice and is always tired - roll on the blossoming section of this PG please !!

Wiggie - hows things?

Hi to everyone on the thread.  Sending a lorry load of   for everyone

Lorraine xx


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

Hi,

Thanks for welcome!

Juicy, you are testing on my birthday, hope it brings you luck       

Lorraine, sorry to hear you are feeling emotional. I can sympathise; I regularly burst into tears whenever  I can't find certain garments I intend on wearing. And I don't have your excuse, am just a princess    We were told where to park at the open day yesterday but thank you though. I don't drive so would be taking bus anyway. Starbucks here we come! Also been eyeing up the newish deli in RP, think I could wile away a few hours in there...

Still undecided about whether to do a mild or natural cycle but will talk to Geeta on 26th and see what she suggests. They don't seem to do totally natural cycles very often, do they? Hmm..

Enjoy the limited sunshine today!

Beegey x


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## ophelia (Sep 27, 2005)

Hi all,

Just got an email back from a clinic in Glasgow which I had been looking at for possible TX. I asked them if I could have a controlled natural cycle with them and their response was:

"Unfortunately,the modified (controlled) natural cycle does not work. There is now considerable published scientific data telling us this. We no longer use it."

Later on they go on to say, after I've asked if a Natural IVF would benefit me as that's what my last clinic suggested, :" Natural cycle- Unfortunately we do not agree, as the control (GnRH antagonist) does not work in these circumstances."

Would any of you girls have any thoughts on these statements and also what does he mean by GnRH antagonist doesn't work? Is he meaning the low dose of Gonal F won't work or what?

I'm so confused right now, would I be better off trying a short protocol than a controlled natural cycle? I don't want to do a completely natural cycle in case of early ovulation but it sounds like the clinic don't like doing a natural/controlled natural cycle period.

They also pointed out I needed to have my AMH levels tested and if it came back at less than 1.1pmol/L they would not treat me at all. 


Hi beegey and good luck for your treatment. 

Juicy- well done on being PUPO and      for a BFP!!

Lorraine- Sorry to hear you're suffering from morning sickness. 

Alba- thanks for explaining how the controlled cycle works. 

Julianne- sorry to hear you're feeling down. 

Wiggie- I never knew Puregon was stronger than Gonal F. Learn somethin new everyday. Good luck for your next cycle, when is it?

Sorry if I've missed anyone.
Love/Ophelia


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## Louise68 (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi Ophelia,

It's interesting to see the comments made by the clinic in Glasgow about modified and natural cycle IVF.  I wonder what they mean?  

The only thing I can say is that I have done two modified natural cycles and they did work in the sense that a good egg was collected, fertilised and produced an embryo.  Unfortunately on one occasion it did not implant and on the other occasion the embryo stopped dividing so there was no ET.

The way I read their comment is that the drugs used in controlling, ie blocking spontaneous ovulation and then adding back the lost FSH to keep the follicle growing, does not work.  Well, in my case that part did work; it was something else that failed.  At least that's how I understand it.

Juicy, well done on being PUPO.  I hope your 2WW isn't too agonising and that it'll be worth the wait in the end!  

Beegey, I'm planning to start a mild IVF cycle with Create at the end of September.  I hope your consult and scan go well.  Lucky you living down the road, I have to travel miles but I think it's the last time I'll be able to!  

Hi to everyone else - Lorraine, that must be tough feeling so awful all the time and really difficult for working too.


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Oh I am sure I dont deserve that much sympathy as I got myself in this situation  

Thats bizarre about the controlled natural cycle as how can it not work considering you are really doing what couples all over the world do to have children the only difference being that the egg is removed and fertilized for you therefore you would imagine theres always a 25% chance as with trying to conceive au natural - Am I making sense or do I have complete pregnancy brain??

As for Gonal F being weaker than Puregon I did not know that either and its bizarre really considering I produced 8 eggs on Gonal F and then one egg on Puregon - but then I always like to be different  

More   for everyone

Lorraine xx


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Ophelia, sorry but that is an outrageous thing for that clinic to tell you.  What on earth are they talking about, saying it doesn't work?  Of course it does!  After all, all IVF was natural cycle IVF for years, until they developed the superovulation technique which requires the drugs - and I think was at least 5 years after Louise Brown was born

Total twaddle telling you it doesn't work - success rates might be low but that's a different matter.  I understand that the success rates aren't great (hence the stimm drugs!), about the same as for IUI - but that doesn't stop all the clinics round the country offering IUI??

If the clinic you're going to is the one I'm guessing it is, aren't they quite new and only got recent success rates on their website ( I have looked, after seeing it praised on here) so want their first HFEA table placing to look good.  But refusing to treat people with low AMH and not doing natural cycles suggest they are very driven by the tables and furthermore, they can't be that confident in their technique/expertise if they don't think they can get the more challenging cases pregnant.  

Can you be late for work one day and phone the Swedes at 8am?

Alba, thanks and good luck with your cycle, look forward to hearing you get on in Raynes Park.

Lorraine what can I say, you're a trouper with the MS but it must be miserable - after all we go through to get pg, it would be so nice if we could all then be lucky and sail through!!  xx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Julianne -sorry to hear about the crisis!  Some things are sometimes for the best...  
if you are financially secure I would go ahead.  You can import a known donor from the STates!  

Hello to everybody else...     

Good luck to all on 2 ww...

Lorraine -0 hope all is well with the bump!


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Financially secure?  Hardly!  Living with my Mum and jobless kind of covers it right now.


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Ah Julianne - hope you are getting lots of home cooked meals though  

Sending you a big  

Lorraine x


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Sigh.  There is always that of course.

So question - if you weren't going natural/mild, where would you choose to cycle and why?  I'm starting my research all over again.  I seem to remember the Lister coming up as a good clinic for most people.  I'm also checking out the legal status of donors and how my donor could remain completely anonymous, or if in fact he could.  Do clinics insist on knowing a donor's identity?  Probably a question for Sally as she's the only other one here that I know of going it alone.  And how much does a 'normal' cycle cost?  I can never figure it out from clinic cost breakdowns, because bloods and drugs are always listed as 'extra' but with no more info.  What's a realistic expectation of cost?  I read that it's about £10,000 at ARGC and I nearly fell off my chair!

Talking of which, haven't seen her around for a while, hope she's OK.


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

oh yes  - not sure about Sally hope she is well

Erm - yes I have heard that Lister is good

I only have create and LFC to go by but were very very pleased with LFC

LWC seems to have some good write up on the London Girls TTC thread too

HAve a good bank holiday - enjoy the sunshine today - I dont mind working tomorrow if it rains

Lorraine xx


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

Hi everyone,

Julieanne, from my v limited experience and having absolutely zilch to compare it to, I would suggest Guys ACU as a clinic. We will be going there following a mild stim at Create, prob in the winter.

We have always had a really good feeling about Guys and I don't think their prices are budget busting, compared to ARGC. We have always found the staff to be supportive and accommodating. Their stats are good too. I also know there is no waiting list at the mo'.

Good luck, whatever you choose   xx


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## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Dear all

Good to see this board getting busy again! Re: the natural IVF vs mild debate - I think it all depends on your individual circumstances. E.g Beegey - being young and with good hormone levels! - natural IVF might be the best treatment for you. When I went for a consult at Create however, I was told that natural IVF would not be suitable and that I would have mild stimulation (150 gonal f I think) due to my age, AFC and FSH levels. 

All the research says that natural and mild stimms have lower success rates than conventional IVF - on average it takes a people 4 attempts versus 3 with conventional treatment - but the bonus is that it kinder to your bodies than full stimms  - and costs less!

As for me - well a strange thing happened this week. After a mega busy month at work and suffering a cold for the last 2 weeks, I was due to start my next cycle (short protocol) at the Lister. I had all my drugs delivered and was just waiting for my AF to start, which was due on Monday. By Wednesday it still hadn't arrived (my AF is never late - if anything it usually arrives early) but I had some menstrual like cramps, a tiny bit of bleeding, and sore (.) (.). Yesterday - still no sign so I brought a test kit just in case and went for my usual acupunture session in the evening. I told the acupunturist my AF was late and he said he could tell from my pulse that it was on its way! So I thought no more about it.

This morning I woke up early with a stuffed up nose - still no AF so decided to do the test. And - OMG - it was a definite positive !!!!
I nearly fell off the toilet. I restrained from waking my poor DH up for another hour, and he could't believe the result either (he had to read the test leaflet from cover to cover to check I had done the test properly).

Obviously after 2.5 years of trying, 3 operations and 2 unsuccessful IVF attempts, we are worried that it may turn out to be a bio-chemical or ectoptic pregnancy or something. So if my AF has not come by end of next week I will ask my GP to arrange an early scan for me to check up on progress.

So - just shows that good things can happen when you least expect them! Hope this story will cheer you all up this bank holiday weekend (it certainly has for us!) and I will of course keep you all updated....

Juicy -  good luck for your test day on Monday      , hi to everyone else

Wiggie xx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Wiggie - do your bloods to check the levels.  Congratulations !!"!  

Julianne - ARGC don't do donations of any kind and you would need a sperm donor if I understand correctly.  Also wanted to say it may be worthwhile going to the Reprofit.  IVF with own eggs is only £800 .  Donor sperm £100.  I have seen some good looking male donors waiting to donate their goodies.  And Brno is a lovely place....Cool Austro-hungarian architecture.  You could organise a trip to Prague or Olomouc, a lovely medieval city.  The clinic is easy to get to.  Ryanair flights cheap and if you stay at the Grand everything is located conveniently.  The drs are fantastic and really quick to reply to any emails...Some food for thought, perhaps especially if you are not working.  I wish I had considered this whilst trying with own eggs.  I paid £10 k at the ARGC.  Not worth it especially the daily bloods!  The bloods on their own are 1.5 k.


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Hooray Wiggie DH and I are absolutely thrilled for you both    

Juicy - good luck for testing day I think its tomorrow or Monday - have everything crossed for you both 

Love to everyone

Lorraine xx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Julianne - forgot to say D-con blue has just done the donation in the Czech with donated eggs, but she has imported the sperm from the States so that at least one of the donors is known.  


Wiggie - its' fantastic what happened!  Fingers crossed that all goes well from now on!         

My bfp has turned to bfn unfortunately!  So a biochemical for me!


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

really sorry to hear that Incon  

Lorraine x


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

oh blimey Incon, I'm so sorry.  What a nightmare, such a disappointment.  Hope you're ok.  Also hope you will try again really soon - this proves you can do it, and the clinic sounds brilliant. Get yourself out there at half term.  

Wiggie, bl**dy fantastic news!!  Many, many congratulations to you and your DH!!!!  how incredible.  Pah, wouldn't you know it, after you've paid for the drugs!!  On the other hand, you've saved about £4k    How amazing!  Understand the anxieties completely but hope you enjoy this wonderful moment too xx

Lorraine    still loving those slippers!


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Watch this space there's something new to replace the slippers - we couldnt resist today - yet to buy anything constructive and actually needed though  

Keeping everything crossed Juicy - are you testing tomorrow or MOnday? xx

Lorraine


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## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi all

Thanks for all your wishes. Had a bit of a scare yesterday after I posted, as discovered some light bleeding (light brown rather than bright red - sorry if tmi!). It has stopped now but am still completely paranoid! Has anyone else had this following a BFP?

Incon, really to sorry to hear about your BFN. Did you go with donor eggs in the end? Thanks for the tip about blood HCG levels

Wiggie xx


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

From what I have read on here this sounds like implantation bleeding - so a very positive sign rather than a negative one! Good luck and well done with the BFP x


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Wiggie - sounds like late implanation bleeding but I dont think it would be a bad idea to give your body a helping hand and take a cyclogest each day  - I think the one you took last night was a good idea and think the hot flushes might be due to the cold rather than progesterone to be honest

Oh I am so happy for you  

Juicy      

Lorraine xx


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Blimey, you lot have been busy!  Wiggie, I'm on tenterhooks and I can't give any advice on the bleeding I just don't know.

Incon I'm so sorry, i didn't know you were cycling again and I missed the BFP announcement.  But you did get to that stage, which is further than ever before if I remember correctly...?  Don't lose all hope just yet.

I don't know anything about Reprofit or where they are or anything, can you point me to a weblink or anything?  That would be great thanks.


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Julianne, here's the link to the Reprofit thread on the boards http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=151767.0 and if you go up one stage from that, you get the threads with all the general information about places to stay in Brno and travelling there. It sounds amazing value and Incon has spoken v highly of the clinic director Stepan.

well, I am very very happy today - we got a BFP this morning - I cannot quite believe it !! so relieved and chuffed.

Wiggie hope you've not had any more bleeding - Lorraine's advice re cyclogest sounds good . How are you feeling otherwise - bit tired by any chance 

Lorraine - looking forward to your new pic when it's up!

Off to the Lister tomorrow for a blood test to see what my levels are like - Wiggie good luck if you do this.

Incon hope you're ok and starting to be able to think ahead


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Juicy that is just wonderful come and join us on the fat ladies thread - and join us for brekkie on 4th Oct 

Congratulations       

Lorraine xxx


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

Yay, Juicy!!

Knew my birthday would bring luck! Yippee congratulations to you and your dh. 

Enjoy your bfp!

Very Happy Beegeyxx


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## ophelia (Sep 27, 2005)

Fantastic news Juicy!!!   Huge congratulations!!!


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Fantastic news Juicy....


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Thank you ladies, so much!!

Beegey, sorry I forgot but think I am just about on time to squeeze a HAPPY BIRTHDAY in under the wire!  hope you had a lovely day


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Oh wow Juicy, that's amazing!  So how many BFPs have we had for Create now?

OK, I've read a bit on Reprofit (and my head is spinning!!!) This could be just the breakthrough I needed - if I ever get my head around it.  So how does it all work?  Who would do scans and bloods here?  And where would you get the drugs from?

Incon, have you cycled there?


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## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Fantastic news Juicy - I had a feeling it would work for you this time! Hope the blood results come back with good levels for you.

Am still getting a bit of spotting - got an appointment with the GP on Thurs.

Hi to everyone else

Wiggie xx


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Thanks so much Wiggie!  

The spotting is v common isn't it - hope GP is able to reassure you.  You feeling tired?

Lorraine, thanks   if I haven't said that, very remiss of me - all over the shop but back to work tomorrow!

Julianne, sorry to mislead but I was at the Lister. Oddly enough I've seen people post in other threads though that have got pg with Geeta but never found their way here!


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Juicy it doesn't matter where you got it - but you got it!  What are your thoughts on the Lister?  I'm kind of canvassing opinion at the moment!  What is a realistic idea of cost per cycle there?


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## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi JUlianne

We were impressed with the Lister when we went for a consult there. They were certainly more optimistic about our chances of trying again than at Guys. The cost of a std cycle there is £3250 (inc. scans, EC/ET and HFEA fees) - you then have to pay extra for blood tests during stimms, blasto transfer and ICSI. They seem to be quite expensive if you get your drugs through them - so I ordered mine through Fazeley's (which hopefully I will no longer need!!) and it worked out as around £1000. Good luck with your decision-making.....

As for me, I went to see my GP this morning. She said the jury is out on whether taking the cyclogest makes any difference, but said if I wanted to continue taking it that was fine, as it doesn't cause any harm. I also had a Beta HCG test, should get the results tomorrow. Need to go back early next week for a repeat test to see whether the levels have increased. Have also arranged a scan at the Early Pregnancy Unit at St Thomas for 8th Sept - by which time I should be around 7 weeks - so I feel that as long as I can hang in there until then, things will be fine! The unit did say however that if the bleeding gets heavy or I start getting cramps I should arrange to come and see them straight away. So I have got my fingers, legs and everthing else crossed until then !!!

Juicy - hope you're feeling OK

Hi to everyone else...

Wiggie xx


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## Louise68 (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi everyone,

I've been away for a while but have just been catching up with news on this thread.

Incon, I was really sorry to read about your disappointment.

Juicy, what wonderful news - congratulations!  And congratulations to Wiggie too - what a lovely surprise.  It's so encouraging to see BFPs.

I had a follow-up with Create on Friday and assuming pre-ivf scan looks okay on Wednesday will start a mild cycle towards the end of Sep.  I'm insisting on my dose being reduced as I over-responded last time on 150 Gonal F and had to be coasted.  The advice they're giving me though is that I'm unlikely to respond as well the second time even on the same dose.  That's normal apparently - I didn't know that.  

Has anyone else been on a dose as low as 75 Gonal F and produced a reasonable number of follicles?  For me, it's either 75 or 112.5 per day.  I'd like to get away with the lower dose of 75.  I'd really appreciate any words of advice on this... I'm just not sure anymore what's mild and what's not as it obviously differs so much from person to person.

Take care,
Alba


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Julianne - yes, I have just cycled there.  You can do the scan at the Birth clinic for £70, 137 Harley St.  You 'd need this for your basal scan to check that there are no cysts and on day 7 to see how your follies are developing.  Stepan can send you all the meds. Alternatively, he can send you a script and you can get your own meds here.  There is an Italian pharmacy that does all foreign prescriptions.  You can maybe get your GP or an IVF clinic here to do you a British prescription as the pharmacies here do not deal wtih the international ones.  

The clinic is excellent and I regret not having done cycles there instead of wasting 10 k at the ARGC frankly.  I still haven't repaid that debt. 

Juicy and Wiggie  - hope the levels are doubling nicely...

Alba - good luck...

My ex best friend has just announced that she is preggers aged 42 and having just stopped to use contraception in July.  So on first try - naturally... Her DP is 54.  There you go... It just happens to some people.  She has been insensitive re my treatments no end so just wander what will happen now... We are still in touch but not as we used to be...


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## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Dear all

Just to let you know that my spotting has turned into AF-like bleeding (but no cramps) since yesterday, so in my mind I have assumed this is a bio-chemical pregnancy. I rang the unit at St Thomas this morning and because my HCG levels were quite high in THursday's test (8315) they said to come in for a scan tomorrow morning to see what is going on. But my pregnancy symptoms have all gone so I am not holding out much hope for any positive news. 

Will keep you posted...

Wiggie xx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Wiggie - it doesn't have to mean the worst... A lot of ladies have posted about bleeding in early pregnancy and it all turned out fine at the end...


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

Oh Wiggle,   poor you to have to go through this worrying time...  that everything ok, didnt realise Thurs levels were so high.

Aint over til the fat lady sings and she is currently scoffing a GU choc brownie.

Thinking of you xxx


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Wiggie, I echo what the others have said, in a book I am reading by Lesley Regan, she says that she had a massive bleed when pregnant with twins but all was fine at scan the next day

I am really hoping and praying that you will get good news tomorrow.  Thinking of you xx


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

me too Wiggie xx


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## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi all

Thanks everyone for your words of encouragement & support (as ever!). Sort of positive news today - scan showed a gestational sac with a developing yolk sac (3.3mm!) but it was too early to detect a heart beat. The nurse seemed to think I am only 5 - 5.5 weeks, this could be due to late ovulation/implantation (at least you know exact timngs of conception with IVF!).

They also saw an area of bleeding next to the sac, most likely implantation related, and this is what has been causing the light bleeding and spotting.

I go for a follow up scan next Monday to check progress and have my HCG levels re-tested tomorrow to check they are still rising.

So we are still in with a chance!! Also spotting seems to have abated which is good news.

Juicy - your book sounds interesting, who is Lesley Regan, is she a pregnancy guru?

Hi to everyone else

Wiggie xx


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

for everyone tonight

L x


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## Be Lucky (Mar 22, 2008)

Hi know a few ladies on this thread.beegay.juicy and wiggle did u cycle at lister and inconceivable from reprofit.hav got our names down 4 de at end of june at reprofit but got consultation and scan at create 2moro.what r my chances?i am 43.inconc was it u said bout spendin10k at argc.i feel the same bout spendin over 12k at listerwithout success.but so glad u did well ther juicy?lorraine does the lfc take ppl with low amh-high fsh.i mite b better saving my money 4 reprofit.any suggestions.? berniex


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Hi Bernie

I dont know what LFC criteria is so best to have a free consultation with them

Good Luck

Lorraine x


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## latestarter (Apr 1, 2007)

Hi - I've posted as a separate topic as well, before I saw this thread, but I am hoping someone here may be able to help me?

Myself and DH are thinking about trying natural ivf after 1 & 1/2 unsuccessful ICSI's that have cost over £10,000 altogether!

Since I am a poor responder (3 follies on S/P & only 1 on L/P) we were thinking that having a natural cycle might not make much difference, but I haven't heard many success stories & I only know of CREATE offering it.

Has anyone got any positive experiences of natural IVF?  I would love to get some opinions from anyone who has gone through this.  Thank you


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## Be Lucky (Mar 22, 2008)

Hi Latestarter

Blimey.  You had 2 cycles at the Lister at about the same time as me at Lister this year!

I think I remember you from the Lister Link.  I am going into an appointment at Create at 3.30p.m today so will be able to let you know more after.  

Which doctor you under at Lister?  Do they want you to have another go or are they mentioning DE?

I will update my profile and you will see where I am at.

You are about 5 years younger than me but same star sign I see Leo - me 43 on Aug 2nd so we both determined lions!

Take care

Bernie


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## latestarter (Apr 1, 2007)

Hi Bernie,

Good luck with your appointment this afternoon.  I wonder if we crossed paths at the Lister?!

I think I've seen nearly everyone at Lister - Dr Thum for our first consultation, then Dr Parakh & Marie Wren during our first TX & Alison Taylor for follow up!  I'm seeing Marie Wren again tomorrow for the follow up to our cancelled cycle, but she advised we try again on the SP.  After the first cycle we were told that we should give it another couple of goes at least with my own eggs, but it is so expensive!

We had decided to just go with the S/P again this month but we overspent on our holiday & we are short of the money for another cycle at Lister!  We thought we would save up for a few months and have another go after Christmas, but I forgot about natural IVF & we could afford to have 2 or 3 cycles at Create for less than 1 attempt at Lister.  I felt really bad on the L/P as well - it made me quite ill, my moods have been very erratic since & I've stopped getting any kinds of ovary pains during my cycle (I have had these for years).  I quite like the idea of being drug-free!

Please let me know how you get on at your appointment, Bernie - I am also considering donor eggs - how do you know where to go?!!

xx


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

How are things ladies?  I'm anxious to know if the embies are sticking!!

I'm still musing over Reprofit, but I need to do more research really.  Is it something that an inexperienced person re IVF should attempt?  I've never had a cycle and I don't know what to do when or how it all works.  Plus, how much did it cost you in all Incon?  Including flights and hotel stays.  I'm still having problems getting a realistic idea of whole costs, and it would break my heart to abandon a cycle because I ran out of money.  I keep reading that people are going to Create because it's relatively cheap per cycle, but they've hiked their prices and I'm not sure that's true anymore, but because I haven't the experience to know what the likely costs are down the line, I can't make a true comparison.


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## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi Julianne

That's such a ticky one. My feeling is that it is probably easier to go abroad once you have had at least one cycle over here and know what to expect - you then know what questions to ask if you do go abroad, and can check that they are following the right protocols and procedures. The problem is that some countries aren't as well regulated as here, so you may be unwittingly getting a lesser service. Having said that, I'm sure lots of ladies do go abroad for tx straight away - the thread on international tx will I'm sure give you more info.

Wiggie xx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Julianne - if I knew then what I know now I wouldn't have bothered with any of the UK clinics I have been at including UCH, ARGC and Create in particular...

The Grand was 50 euros a night for two people and the flights you can book for £30 return if you book well in advance from STansted to Brno.  I have already posted the prices re the Birth company for the scan .  You need 2 scans of £70 for your base line scan to rule out cysts and scan on day 7 to see how many folles.  Once you go there you are in fantastic hands and the clinic is superb and they will monitor you closely.  There is no wl with own eggs.  Stepan can send you all the meds or you can source your own. He can send you the prescription and you can source it here.  You need to work out what's cheaper.  You need to find a clinic that will give you the prescription by a uk dr. Alternatively you can do it via the Italian Pharmacy.  I have got the details.  I had my meds sent over but the cost would be different for own eggs.  I have a vague feeling that I have already told you all this, but in case I haven;t here it is again.

If you have any queries, peple on the board can always guide you.  It's not a big deal really... It's just plain stupid to waste your money here...


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## Be Lucky (Mar 22, 2008)

Hi inconceivable.i was thinkin bout havin a final go at create with oe.went 4 consultation yest.how did u find them?disorganised i thought!when i went 2 reprofit marcel quoted me â‚¬3700 caus of high doses of drugs-does that sound right 2u?i was sorry what happened 2u recently.wer u tryin with oe or de?i am on internet on mobile and cant c profiles.take care berniex


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

HI Bernie - I also started at Create for my first cycle and am still to this day waiting for a follow up consultation with them - after my negative cycle they didnt return calls or e mails and so DH and I gave up and moved to LFC to were fantastic so I with Incon I am afreaid I would not go back there now

Disorganised seems to be an understatement  - I was hoping they might have sorted their act out now that they are doing EC and ET on site

L x


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## Be Lucky (Mar 22, 2008)

Hi lorraine.u awake early2!what age ru lorraine and was ur fsh high-amh low?u said they do a free 15 min consult and r cheaper than create.i was ther 4 2 hrs the other day waitin 4 scan and 20min mtg.bx


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Doesnt surprise me Bernie - the longest we were there was 2 and 1/4 hours  - we got to know the people in starbucks very well  

I am 32 and had normal FSH 

Lorraine x


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## marinegirl (Aug 5, 2008)

Can I join you ladies?  Normally I post on the ttc over 40 but was interested to get your views on Create.

Lorraine - I can beat that, 3.5 hours in Create for consultation plus Doppler scan!  Seems "mild ivf" is just a turn of phrase, some people will be on half my 150 Gonal F dose at a private clinic on a conventional short protocol.  Need to find out if EC and ET will be in Wimbledon or LFC, maybe that would be a blessing from what you say...

I am finding that the side effects are manageable than on 300 at Guys, also I take Gonal F and Buseralin at night before going to bed so by the morning I feel better. Did I hear that Gonal F is not as strong as Puregon so the doses are higher?  The cost so far at Create for one cycle of mild IVF (without ICSI) has reached £3300 inc drugs, I needed to buy more Gonal F.  Hope there will be no more costs.  Having said that it is still a little cheaper than conventional IVF short protocol on the NHS at Guys. 

Beegie - you are right, few people seem to be having no drug IVF, I guess the risk of cancellation is too high for most.

Bernie - thanks for telling me on another thread that Lister costs 4.5K plus drugs for ivf with icsi, what would it be without icsi?  Does anyone know the price at LFC now?  Perhaps that is more in my budget if this cycle fails at Create.

My day 7 scan today was good (for mild IVF), three good size follicles and two of them in the accessible ovary.  Does anyone know of a reason why an ovary ends up behind the womb?  Next scan Tuesday so fingers crossed those two follies keep growing.  

marinegirl x


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## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi Marinegirl

Welcome to the thread. Shame your tx at Guys didn't work, as seems you had some good quality embies there. Did they say that the fibroid had got in the way when they collected the eggs? My understanding was that as long as they can access the ovary then they can collect any eggs that are available. Don't know why the ovary sometimes goes behind the womb - they do move around sometimes! - but if you have fibroids they can distort and enlarge the womb (as I know from the notes from my various ops).

The cost of a std IVF cycle at the Lister is £3250 plus drugs plus bloods. And yes I was told that 75 units of puregon equals 100 units of gonal f.

Good luck with your mild cycle

Wiggie xx


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Hello Marine girl - 3.5 hrs   thats got to be a new record !

hope those follies keep growing - I only had one on my last cycle and now look so never start to worry that people have more than you do your 3 are going to be great - as for an ovary being behind the womb I diont know anythign about that I am afraid

Lorraine x


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

marine i was told the same thing, that I had one ovary behind the womb.  I was told it wasn't a problem, but does it make a difference at EC?  I'm now a bit alarmed!


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## marinegirl (Aug 5, 2008)

Julianne – I have been messaged by someone who got pregnant in spite of our condition so never think that it will stop you from getting pregnant, you only need one good egg, see Lorraine’s post!
Lorraine –  did some research and saw that LFC is in Harley St.  Seems to be about the same price as Lister, is that right? 
Wiggie –  Good luck with your scan tomorrow!!! 
I got vexed by Guys as on the tx when no eggs were retrieved the person who had failed to retrieve eggs came to my bedside as I was coming round from anaesthetic and told me I was a hopeless case and to go straight to DE without any mention of why she had not managed to access the ovary.  I worked that out later by reading my notes and speaking to Geeta at Create.  She told me last week after my scan that it would be too dangerous to access the ovary behind the womb as they like to go through the vagina rather than the abdomen.  Anyway, there are a couple of follicles on the accessible side this cycle as spotted by Prof Campbell and also maybe the tricky ovary will move back into position as I have been doing plenty of yoga and stretches…

Thanks so much everyone for support and encouragement, it makes a huge difference.  One study showed that it can literally double your chances of not miscarrying if you have a supportive environment in the clinic you attend.

marinegirl x


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Hi MArinegirl

Thats an interesting stat about the supportive environment
LFC verses Lister prices - I wouldnt know without looking - LFC do do a mild protocol though all in for 2885 drugs and EC and ET and counselling and PG test etc all included and a free FET shoud the cycle fail but oyu have frozen embies
PM your e mail address if you are interested and I can forward you the brochure on email

Lorraine x


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## Be Lucky (Mar 22, 2008)

Dont worry 2 much marine-sure it will b ok.geeta said i already ovulated and 2 hav a rest after so much treatment in 9 mths.also as with matti my fsh flucuates each month.nite all berniex


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## marinegirl (Aug 5, 2008)

Lorraine - thanks, will PM you.
Bernie - we have had about the same amount of treatment this year, feb, april and june were my 3 attempts but only feb and june got to EC because of ovary behind womb.  I thought that was enough but here I am again!
marinegirl x


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## Be Lucky (Mar 22, 2008)

Marine

I know it addictive!

Good luck - what time your scan tomorrow?  Give or take an hour or two!

Berniex


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

Hi Everyone,

Lorraine, just had a peek on the LFC website, but they don't appear to openly advertise the 2885 all in package that you mentioned. The rates they charge now have applied since April this year, is your brochure from before then? Maybe I was being a wally and the info was right in front of me    

Marinegirl, taking a leaf out of your book - already planning next cycle before this one has begun! Sorry to hear of your your naughty ovary hiding behind your womb, hope it does not create too much trouble. Great idea with the yoga. I am glad that you feel supported too. This website and many of the members on it have offered me support and kind words through some very dark days...and I havent even had any treatment yet  

Hi Bernie, Julieann and Incon  

Wiggie, hope everything was ok today  

Beegey xx


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## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi all

Just to update on my news: had another scan today, the sac is developing well and they could see the foetal pole, but still too early for a heartbeat (as I am only just over 6 weeks). The area that was bleeding looks like it is healing nicely and the spotting has pretty much stopped now. My HCG levels last week were 16,000 ! Apparently they now start evening out rather than doubling every 2-3 days. 

So I have to go back again in 10 days, when they will check progress. Still feeling quesy at all times of the day - but at least I know it's for a good reason! Hopefully some acupuncture will help with that.

Hi to everyone else

Wiggie xx


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Hooray Wiggie thats fab news    

Beegey - you are right they dont advertise but I have all the info on my e mail you so if you PM your e mail address I can send you the info

Lorraine xx


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## juicygem (Jul 6, 2008)

Hi all,

Sorry for being clueless, but what is a natural IVF cycle?? How is it possible to do IVF without drugs?

Please let me know, it sounds like it might be something I'd like to try...

Thanks in advance 

Juicygem xx


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Hi Juicygem

I think that during your natural cycle the clinic track a follicle with scans and then when it looks ripe for the picking they collect it, and do exactly the same as a stimulated cycle. You can also do mild ivf which uses very low doses of stims.

Hope that I am correct?? Girls?

Ally x


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

That sounds about right to me

L x


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## marinegirl (Aug 5, 2008)

Lorraine - I will wait to hear more about LFC until I see how this cycle goes... Could be the drugs making me feel this way, but just do not like the idea of carrying on with more ivf just now.  I really think that three ets, if I get to that stage, will be enough for me and dh (who has been grappling manfully with hcg ampules tonight, shattered glass everywhere as he is very strong!) 

Scan today showed 4 good size follicles, 2 on each side, so if one ovary is inaccesible on ec day I still have a chance.  I have taken the last buseralin and hcg trigger tonight, completely ruined my appreciation of food which tasted horrible as the drugs have given me a nasty taste in my mouth, or is it my cooking...  Did anyone else find that? 

ec on Thursday, does that mean et could be on a Sunday?  Geeta said all tx will be at Raynes Park.

marinegirl x


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Juicy, Louise Brown - the world's first IVF baby was done as a natural cycle.  Instead of going for heaps of eggs, the plan with natural or mild IVF is to achieve 1-4 good eggs without down-regging and little or no stimming, depending on what you go for.  Obviously with a completely natural cycle you are only going to get your one egg, but for some women that's the best way to go.  It depends completely on your age, health, hormone levels, egg reserve, bank balance etc etc, and whether you are worried about the effects of a fully stimmed cycle versus the natural/mild route as to which is the best way for you to go.

It's all very confusing!  You have to do your research, ask questions and try and figure out which is the best way to pick your way through this particular minefield.  You will also find conflicting medical opinion as to the merits of a mild or natural cycle.  Geeta (of Create Health) is a staunch advocate of this approach, but other docs I've met have dismissed it out of hand and say that her approach is flawed.  Who knows?  I think you have to go with your gut feelings as to what's best for you, because at the end of the day these clinics are a business, they're not here to 'help' you, they're here to make money.  That was hard for me to get my head around, but you have be equally hard-headed when you pick your clinic.


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Nearly forgot to say - Wiggie well done! I'm so pleased for you.  Looks like it's snuggling down nicely in there.


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

Good luck with ec tomorrow, Marinegirl. Hope you get 1-4 good, quality eggs and that naughty dancing ovary plays ball  

Will be thinking of you      .

Hi to all other Natural Girls (and those considering it!)

Beegey xx


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Marinegirl - hopefully you wont even need to consider another cycle because this one will work for you.  I think its normal not to want to carry on with IVF as it is such an emotional time.  I felt cornered on ym most recent cycle as DH wanted to get going to straight aaway and the clinic had agreed - I felt that no one actually asked me what I wanted. When I then got pregnant it took me a good few months (not weeks) to come round to the idea of being a parent as I simply hadnt felt ready.  Admitedly now I am loving the experience and wouldnt change anything but I guess what I am trying to say do exactly what it right for you

Heres to a good EC and ET - yes it could be saturday or Sunday i guess. Fertilize lovely eggs please  

Lorraine xx


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## marinegirl (Aug 5, 2008)

Hi all

EC went well today, quick and easy, 2 eggs on the accessible side without flushing and the other side was left untouched.  DH produced 2 samples, the first was too little quantity, but the second was good quality sperm so fingers crossed for tomorrow.  We were impressed with the personal treatment at Raynes Park and the thoroughness and kindness of staff.

Julianne – just a thought but maybe mild stims is the right option for those of us with one tricky ovary.  It literally doubles your chances and although it is possible to access an ovary via the abdomen the additional cost would be not much less than a completely fresh cycle.  On the other hand I do not feel strong enough to face any more IVF unless it is drug free, in which case it might as well be completely natural.

Beegie – do you know if hycosy really tells us anything about the state of our tubes?  I did not have milk put into them in the end so I feel I am none the wiser.

Lorraine – interesting what you say about emotions, sometimes I feel like I have left the IVF until this year so that I could avoid a lot of issues for as long as possible including getting pregnant…  I guess it is normal to have complex feelings, half of mothers suffer post natal depression at least for a short time, and getting pregnant is not really supposed to be a choice in biological terms so choice brings uncertainty.  I imagine it is like dancing, the less you think the better it is!

marinegirl x


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

Marinegirl - hope the eggs are doing well and glad to hear you were looked after by the staff at RP, that is comforting to know. C'mon little eggs, you can do it  ! What  dh you have - able to produce two samples?! V clever... 

I was under the impression that the hycosy does give a clear image of the tubes. So they didnt use any dye in your test? When the dye 'fills and spills' through the tubes they can confirm clear tubes. Does it matter with ivf though, as we are bypassing the tubes anyway? 

I have a scan at Create today, which should be interesting as I have never had a doppler before. Just want to get started now! Getting very impatient  ! Doesn't good things come to those who wait? That bodes well for us all...

Hi to everyone xx


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## marinegirl (Aug 5, 2008)

Beegie - Good luck with your Doppler scan today.  I was booked for hycosy at Create but just had a Doppler scan as, like you, Geeta thought the tubes were unimportant as it is best to go straight to ivf at my age.  You have time on your side which is good.

The embryologist called this morning with the news that both the eggs have fertilized.  she said that as we have a history of strong embryos, transfer will take place on Sunday (yes they work on that day!).  I really hope this TX works as have discussed it with DH and this has to be our final attempt.  Still, this will be the 3rd ET so maybe third time lucky.

I think that low stims really are beneficial as I felt much less able to cope with relationship issues on an emotional level than I was on full stims at Guys.  Very proud of DH for his double "contribution".  Also my body has less drugs in it now to upset the natural balance, which has to provide a better environment for embryo implantation - the biggest stumbling block in IVF for most people.

marinegirl x


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## Be Lucky (Mar 22, 2008)

Hi Marine

Knew if I didn't get you on one thread I would get you on another.

Well done and good luck for Sunday - I have a good feeling about you!

Berniex


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

Marinegirl, fantasitic, thats excellent news! Really hope they get snuggley on Sunday      

Well my scan certainly was interesting! Turns out I have six follies on one ovary and 20 on the other  . Prof Campbell was doing the scan and then said quite calmly that my ovaries are polycystic, which was news to me  . I thought that I was in for no nasty surprises seeing as I have had a scan this summer at Guys and they said everything was lovely and normal...I even asked the con at the follow up outrightly if I had pco or pcos and she said based upon my normal scan and norml bloods and regular cycle, no. 

Am gutted and can't stop crying  . I was slightly hurried out of the scan when they had finished taking all of the measurements and Prof Campbell assured me there was nothing to worry about and that all will be explained at our induction on Monday.I had a big lump in my throat on the bus back home   I don't really know what this means or how it will affect our treatment. I feel that every time I start to feel excited or optimistic, I get thrown one step back.

Very Sorry for Herself Beegey xx

Ps Hi Bernie, nice to hear from you, you have been unusally quiet recently


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Marinegirl - fab that both eggs have fertilized - wishing you all the luck in the world

Beegey - I am sure you are in safe hands wiht prf Campbell and geeta N so dont worry PCOS wont affect your chnces of the embies implanting once you get to that stage  

Lorriane x


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## Dolphin01 (Jun 13, 2006)

Morning Ladies...

I thought I would post as I have my first scan Monday of my natural cycle ivf....As you can see we already have a little boy who is going to be four in the matter of weeks who was conceived naturally after ten years....We didn't want to wait another ten years for him to have a sibling....I know I am very lucky for having our handsome boy already but would love for him to have a playmate.....


looking forward to getting to know you better and good luck to you all

xxx


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

Good luck with the scan Dolphin. Which clinic are you at? Is your cycl totally natural or are you on a mild stim?

Good luck!

Hi to everyone else - Marinegirl, how are you getting on? What is your testing date? xx


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## Dolphin01 (Jun 13, 2006)

Beegey....We are going totally natural even down to the egg collection....Not going to be sedated or knocked out...We are at Crm Coventry and can't fault how they have been....


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## Dolphin01 (Jun 13, 2006)

Well had a scan yesterday and not much to report as yet which the nurse said is how it should be....I have another scan tomorrow though so we shall see if there is anything to report then..

Hope everyone is well


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## marinegirl (Aug 5, 2008)

Dolphin - congrats on going truly natural, does that mean no cyclogest either after et?  It is a pain as it gives you all the symptoms of pregnancy and therefore maybe (false) hopes...
Beegie - testing day after tomorrrow on Thursday 25th so fingers crossed.  Still feeling positive tho light headed, bloated, tired but not too tired to go on a picnic now by the coast!
love to all
marinegirl x


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## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Marinegirl - best of luck for your test day tomorrow  

Wiggie xx


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## Be Lucky (Mar 22, 2008)

Same from me marine.dou live nr create?bernie


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## ManiH (Dec 13, 2007)

Hi 

I always follow this thread but dont post much but i noticed your post dolphin re totally natural tx. Do you mind letting me know details (pm me if you prefer) esp re natural EC, i would like to try tx again and DH is against all the drugs and invasive procedures so i wonder if i can convince him to try a more natural approach? Hope all your tx goes well hun

Mani


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## Dolphin01 (Jun 13, 2006)

ManiT - Hello there I am still in the process of the natural cycle....Me and DH decided to go for this treatment cause we (like your DH) are put off by the invasive procedures involved in standard IVF.
I have opted for a completely natural cycle including the egg collection I am not going to be sedated for this. Basically I had to wait for my af to arrive then was told to ring the clinic on the day of my first full bleed. I did this and had my first scan on Monday. They didn't see alot which was expected as it was cycle day 5. I went back this morning and they could see 3 folicles two measuring 7mm and one 8mm so in for the next scan on Friday....The nurse said they will wait till the largest is 13mm and then I will have to do the surge tests and then they will let me know where to go from there....The only injection I may need to do is just the trigger shot so they can pretty much know when and where for the egg...
I will let you know more once I know more....Hope this helps....


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## Dolphin01 (Jun 13, 2006)

Marinegirl - Yes totally natural no cyclogest...Fingers crossed for your test day tomorrow Hun


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## ManiH (Dec 13, 2007)

Hi 

Thanks for the info hun, good luck for your ec, let us know how it goes on   hope it doesnt hurt too much! I am guessing cos its only the one egg they take out the pain levels are a LOT less which is why you dont need sedation? 

Mani


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## marinegirl (Aug 5, 2008)

BFN for me today.

Mani - know how it feels to have a DH who has just about had enough.  My DH has said that he does not want any more tx and it is too much of a strain on the relationship so not sure what to do now other than BMS, that is if my tubes prove to be working, I am booked for and HSG in a couple of weeks.  If my tubes are blocked then my only options are donor egg or even donor embryo.  That way DH does not have to do anything!!!  It might also be the end of the relationship, who knows.

Can I ask your age and if you have considered either donor egg or donor embryo?

feeling very sad

marinegirl x


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

marinegirl - so sorry to read your post   Take good care of you and DH.  I hope you get through this and look to the future together
Lorraine x


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## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi marinegirl

Sorry to hear your news, and sorry that your dh says he doesn't want to do any more tx. The only question I would ask is, is it just his decision

Wiggie xx


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

The one thing people don't warn you about when they describe the 'rollercoaster' of IVF is just how tough it is on your relationships and how it will open up any cracks and cause devastation.  My pursuit of a diagnosis of why I was childless with my first partner, and my subsequent initial investigations caused a very swift end to the relationship which in truth had been creaking on for years and needed to be put down.  He just said "no way" even to the thought of IVF, he wouldn't countenance it and then I realised that I hadn't pursued it for all those years because actually I didn't want to have children with him anyway, but I still wanted children.  

Then this year I had a painful breakup because my man just couldn't handle the thought of IVF.  He had one daughter with a previous relationship via ICSI and it seemed to me that she pretty much did it by herself because he was astonishingly ignorant of the whole process for somebody that supposedly went through it.  I now figure that she didn't involve him at all because he turned out to be a total flake in the emotional support stakes.  I couldn't even get him close to a clinic without him going psycho on me.  I never got past initial consultations, bloods and scans, because the hope that 'this time' would be the one that he'd be ready for would prove to be false, he'd let me down again.  I waited for 3 years, 3 key, precious years for him to be ready for IVF.  3 years I can never get back.

It broke my heart actually, I can pinpoint the exact moment we were over.  I do despise him for it, it's difficult not to.  You ladies who have fully supportive partners are so bloody lucky, but even the best of them get to a point where they just can't handle it anymore.  They can't watch us go through physical pain and psychological and hormonal hell any more - I really do think that's at the root of it marinegirl.  Compared to my pathetic men yours has done so well.  Maybe a glass of wine and a calm heart-to-heart is needed?


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## ManiH (Dec 13, 2007)

Hi 

Julianne   your post sounded so heartfelt, it brought tears to my eyes. I agree the relationship strain is huge and it can pull you apart. I dont think men understand the time factor with women, not the way we do, 

Marine girl It is so hard at times to keep going at everything but I hope you can find it in you to do that, hope the PM helped

Mani


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## Be Lucky (Mar 22, 2008)

Julianne that was so heartfelt - how old are you may I ask?

I suffered very badly from anxiety and depression about 10 years ago and was ill for 3 years (some time in hospital) so this is why I think maybe John deals with it well.  

I often think if we did not have that experience to bond us - terrible though it was how would we have coped?

I feel time was wasted with my fertility cause of the illness so when you said about the 3 years you felt were wasted I really emphasize with it.

Marine how are you today?  Please keep posting - you know you are among friends here.

Berniex


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## marinegirl (Aug 5, 2008)

Bernie - as you know I have posted on another thread, thank you for the candle, maybe it is the esoteric element that is lacking when we focus so much on the tangible: statistics, follicle counts, age... Does anyone else find that being over 35 is like reverting back to childhood?  The last time I was this concerned with age was at school when the "and a quarter" reallly mattered!

Mani - I am a bounce back kind of a girl, happy to enjoy the sunshine today and to be healthy.  It really helps that almost nobody knows about the tx except dh, acupuncturist and my mother, it stops me talking about it all the time.  It is better to talk to FF friends going through the same thing.  Thanks for your PM, made me focus on DH instead of just what I have been through.

Julianne - when I was 38.5 I was with a guy who left me 18 months later saying he did not want kids, we never even tried.  Believe me you are better off without that kind of a guy, the man that is right for you will appear in your life when you least expect it and at that point any guy who hurt you in the past will become totallly insignificant. 

Wiggie - My DH does not want to continue IVF tx and neither do I, I am really scared of cancer if fertility drugs are used too much and too long.  I do not even eat food that is not organic for Christ sake!  I am going low tech now, even bought a thermometer, and ready to try naturally if the HSG in a couple of weeks shows that my tubes are clear.  If not DE next year after a good break.

Lorraine - thanks for your kind words.  In a funny kind of a way I am not planning the future so much, just seeing what comes.

Dolphin - I am a bit confused, do you mind me asking what the advantage of natural IVF is over trying naturally when you know that has worked for you in the past?  I guess if there are tube issues then IVF deals with that.  I am asking because my current idea is to try naturally and avoid tx if possible. 

marinegirl x


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## Dolphin01 (Jun 13, 2006)

Marinegirl

DH has always had problems with his sperm and we were told eight years ago it was very unlikely we would conceive naturally....But we did four years after they said that so nine years in total it took us to get our DS but it may not happen again for us naturally that is why we are going for icsi now....


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Somebody asked my age - it's 38.5 and a bit.  I am so dreading january rolling around and finding that I'm 39 all of a sudden.  In a strange way I'll be glad when I hit an age where I can stop the clock and it's dreadful ticking.


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Oh god, did anyone watch the 'sex education show' last night?  Mega depressing - they covered declining fertility in the older woman.  Poor Anna Richardson went to Zita and discovered that she has below average fertility for her age, and she was only 37!

Apparently you can have a fairly good stab at knowing when your fertility juggernaught will come juddering to a halt by knowing when your mother went through her menopause and then subtracting 10 years.  I've just discovered that my Mum had a very early menopause at 41.  Oh dear......


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## Be Lucky (Mar 22, 2008)

Yeah Julianne saw it.

My mum had menopause at 52 and around 42 my fertility starting really going down - FSH - AMH etc.  Had mc just before 40th birthday so was still fertile then.

How long you been trying to conceive?  Maybe it different in those circumstances with an early menopause that you don't have the 10 year previous marker.  I don't know enough about it really - and I  really think that the problem - I wasn't informed enough.

We had been to Zita West 2 - John recognised the white sofas!  We about to go to our 4th different clinic next week.

Have a good evening everyone

Bernie


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

I've never tried to prevent it, so I think the endo has been a problem almost since the beginning.  It's rampant now!

Oh well, what will be will be.


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

How long is the wait before treatment with Reprofit?  And is it normal to go for an initial consultation, or can that also be done via email?  

I don't know why I'm asking because doom has struck again.  My sperm donor has fallen madly in love and I doubt that his new lady will tolerate him fathering a child with somebody else.  He's broaching the subject this weekend, but I'm feeling a bit fatalistic about it.  I'm wondering if the universe is trying to tell me something, like FORGET BABIES!!!!  NOT GONNA HAPPEN!


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

NO wl with own eggs.  Treatment about euro 1000 +meds.  No need to go for initial consultation - can sort everything by email.  Good luck!


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Even after posting here for over a year, the abbreviations can still get me scratching my head.  Wot does wl mean?


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## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

HI Julianne

wl = waiting list! would you consider an anonymous sperm donor?

wiggie xx


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Thanks Wiggie, well that's a relief at least.  Donor sperm kind of icks me out, I don't know why but I shy away from the thought.  G got his results back from the SA test I sent him too, and his sperm is excellent in every way, so I really hope his new lady is kind and doesn't mind him making a contribution.  He's broaching the subject this weekend, so fingers crossed.  I've had such a horrible week that I could really do with hearing some positive news.


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## ManiH (Dec 13, 2007)

Hi everyone

Julianne hope it all works out - hate spanners in the works and it sometimes feels there's always one with infert stuff!

Hope the rest of you ladies are well!

Ive still had no af since the m/c and its overduw by a few days now?!

Mani


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## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

HI Mani

I was told my AF could take 4-6 weeks to appear following the procedure - it all depends on your hormone levels - so don't panic yet!Acupuncture may help bring everything back into line again - I'm going for a session this afternoon

Take care

Wiggie xx


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Wow it's quiet here at the mo.  Everyone OK?


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## marinegirl (Aug 5, 2008)

J
must be the recession, people have less money to spend on IVF.
marinegirl x


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

interesting point actually - maybe the clinics will start doing special offers ! - heres hoping so that everyone can get PG


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

wouldn't that be nice!

How's everything going lorraine?


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Well thanks Julianne - still have to take a step back everyday and realsie that we are having a baby and am grateful for every week that we get a weeek further - I work with too many premature babies so have an unbalanced perspective really !

Hope you are well too

Lorraine x


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

I'm still struggling with the breakup, but today I approached Reprofit for the first time.  They got back to me within an hour and then apologised for the delay (!)

I have to get bloods and a scan organised from the company Incon recommended, and then send the form off with my info and see what Stepan says.  It was a year ago that I went to Create, so I wonder what's happening with my hormone levels and my egg reserve.  I'm 39 in a few months, that's kind of scary.

Are there any clinics that will do bloods on request at a reasonable price?  The NHS always take so long and don't want to do the tests anyway.


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

ARGC did mine.  They get you the form and you go to 111 Harley St.  Also the Create shouldn't have a problem in writing you the form as you are an ex patient ifany probs with the ARGC.  You can also check Dr Gibbs clinic.


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

I know that LFC will run bloods through you jkust have to have them done in a morning not afternoon Julianne

Reprofit ceertainly sound very professional. I hope it works out for you.  Incon is right as you were a patient at create they should help you too - be interesting to see how its all running now really at Create.

Lorraine xx


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

I've booked in to see the GP today, as I've suddenly realised I have to get some done within days 1-4 and I'm due on from today sometime. I hope they say yes.  Full scan booked with The Birth Co. on Thur, so we're rocking and rolling again.

ed:  they said yes!  Finally a break.


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

fantastic Julianne - wishing you all the luck in the world

Lorraine xx


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Well, the questionable ovary is now definately polycycstic (and other than a hairy chin I don't know what that could mean) and it's behaving very badly and is stuck by endo deposit around the back of my uterus.  I freaked out thinking that they wouldn't be able to do an EC, but Canoworms PM'd me, bless her and told me that they 'punch' through the uterine wall anyway (ouch!) so it didn't matter, just makes it a bit more awkward for Stepan.

I have to say, Prof Campbell at Create was way better at the scanning stuff and explained everything much better, although oddly on his report it noted my polycycstic ovary as being on the other side to what this Doc was seeing.  I wasn't given an antral count, which I only reaslised once I got home - I was so freaked by the stuck ovary business.  I was also given poor advice by the reception staff (that never changes....) and I was on the wrong day of my cycle for that scan, despite me double checking this with them, so now I have to go in again on Friday for another mini-scan.  Apparently Vero (?) used to work in a fertility clinic and will have much better idea of the info I need.  Why they didn't give him/her to me in the first place I don't know.

I also heard some sad Harley Street news, Lindsay McMillan died about 6 months ago.  He was the best in the biz regarding diagnosing and treating endo and I saw him a few years ago when I was first diagnosed.  He was a really lovely man and I was sad to hear he passed on.


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

where is everyone?


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## marinegirl (Aug 5, 2008)

hi all

Maybe you can help me out with a natural ivf dilemma.  Last week Prof Campbell of Create scanned me and found NO follicles big enough to ovulate on day 11.  He suggested a two pronged attack, if I ovulate on the right, unblocked fallopian tube side, to try naturally again.  If I ovulate on the left, blocked fallopian tube side, to try natural ivf with no drugs whatsoever.  Great in theory but I agreed with my DH that there would be no more ivf as he hates the whole process.  How do you think I should put it to him?

marine x


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Well I think the way you have just so simply explained it on the board is exactly how you should explain it to DH  - simplcity has to be the way forward - it also sounds very positive for you

Good Luck  

L x


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

marinegirl, I think that what Prof Campbell suggested isn't IVF as such, no hormone-induced nuttiness to contend with!  It's more Create filling in the gaps for you to conceive naturally.  That's the way I always looked at it.

ed:  nearly forgot my update!  I've finally got all my results and have sent off the questionaire to Reprofit.  I'm really hoping they'll let me start treatment in Jan.  My donor is still looking into the legalities of it all, he's very concerned about anonymity, so he's seeing a solicitor.  If he insists on going on the hfea register all bets are off anyway, as there's no way I'm paying a huge donor fee on top of everything else (!) From what I can gather, if treatment is in Europe then the UK non-anonymity laws do not apply, one very good reason for going to Reprofit.

Good news on my bloods - all looks good (I think). FSH is 5.5, and that was the one I was really worried about.  LH is 2.6, I don't know if that's good or bad, but the GP didn't comment on it.  There was a slight scare with an endocrine and renal panel showing borderline function, but a subsequent test came back normal.  I have no idea what went on there!


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## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

HI Julianne

Hope things are Ok with you. Well done on your excellent FSH result, and good luck with your donor

Marine girl - good luck with persuading your DH. I agree with Lorraine, best just give it to him straight!

Wiggie xx


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Thats great Julianne - lets hope the legalities are simple to sort  

Wishing you lots of luck

Lorraine xx


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Oh the legalities are looking like a deal-breaker right now.  I can feel the whole thing shuddering to a halt once again.

All I want is to try for a baby, it shouldn't be this hard!


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Nope you are right about that one Julianne it shouldnt be that hard - life is not fair for some bizarre reason, end of story  

but stay positive as the legalities might just work out as time goes on - to be honest I dont think christmas helps as some people see it as a hurdle or indeed a barrier almost to get over and feel they have to make decisions either before it or after so your donor may just need some time and maybe can come back with fresh eyes and a new perspective in the new year? Am I making sense I know what I want to say but not sure if I articulated it right

L x


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Wow it's gone totally quiet here.

Well I've given up on the natural approach and have booked in with Reprofit in Jan.  So you guys can find me over there.  Lorraine, keep me up to date with bump, I want to know when it arrives 

Good luck with Geeta everyone.

Ju x


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Julianne - wishing you lots of   for January

L xx


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

ooh and from me Julianne - best of luck, i hope Reprofit do you proud, will keep an eye out for your news

Lorraine good grief I can't believe you're so near now!!!  hope you had a good crimbo and all is well with baby - is s/he engaged fully now?  I hope you have your feet up on a regular basis young lady!!

xx


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## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Happy New Year Everyone

Juicy - I dont have a MW appt until next Wed but the baby has definitely moved me thinks so I must be quite engaged I would imagine (hope)  its still a wriggler though!
As for taking it easy am doing as much walking as possible by walking to the shops which is a mile each way most days.  I havent felt like swimming recently but will start again next week I hope
Am also sleeping like a log - how did I ever get up for work I now think to myself - still that will all be over in a flash in a few weeks!
Hope you are doing well as well - the time just flies doesnt it

L x


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Lorraine, a two mile walk each day?  Very good - no wonder you are sleeping well!  

My sister who's a MW says I should expect to be totally knackered by 35-36 weeks and sleeping a lot during the day so it's good that you are getting lots of rest.  Must be easier to rest when the baby moves down too and your breathing's a bit easier?

The time is indeed flying - I get a bit panicked at how quickly the weeks go by - though at the same time, am thinkng 'roll on mat leave'...as I feel it's going to be a mammoth effort for me to concentrate on work for the next three months!!

ooh am going to start keeping a close eye out for your news - I'm sure you have everything done now.  We have finally made a start here and planning to make our big purchases towards the end of this month eeek

Cx


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## Coffeebean (May 21, 2009)

Hi

I see this thread is pretty old - is anyone out there doing natural IVF at the moment?

Coffee


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## Ceri. (Sep 6, 2004)

Coffee bean .... I think there are a few ladies, i'll watch the thread and bump it up if need be, i'm sure someone will be along soon to join you


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## Ceri. (Sep 6, 2004)




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## Coffeebean (May 21, 2009)

LOL!


Thank you 

Although we have stopped with the natural IVF now - we started a second cycle but all my results were so dismal... 

I am glad we did the natural cycles, because in the process my doctor monitored me all the way through from one AF to the next, and I saw for myself exactly what was going on and how disordered my ovarian function is.  We had been on the ED waiting list and the natural IVF wasa last shot at using my own eggs - but over the weekend we were offered a donor and then all my dismal results came back in (day 7 tests and my AMH test) and I spoke to my doctor, who is normally Dr Positivity, (he persuaded us to give it a last shot before going for ED) and even he didn't think there was much point,    so we decided to go for ED.  

I have to say though that the natural cycle was a really positive experience, so much easier - and to anyone with a chance of success - I would recommend it.


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## suesunday (Dec 13, 2009)

Coffee bean - try the Create thread. There are people there doing natural.


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