# possible match _ advice on adopting older children



## steven28 (Aug 8, 2014)

me and my partner have been linked with a little girl aged 4. we were approved with no terms of adoption, but always thought the child would be 0-3 years of age. we feel a real connection with the girls profile and have seen CPR and there appears to be no attachment issues, its probably the least scary CPR we have seen( and we've seen a lot). we are just wondering if anyone has any experience of adoption 4 plus children - pros and cons ect. thanks in advance.


----------



## superal (May 27, 2005)

Hi

Yes we adopted a little boy just short of his 4th birthday............nearly 17 years ago now though, he is now a very handsome 21 year old.

Pros of adopting an older child are....no sleepless nights,(maybe the odd one when first settling in), no nappies, no late night feeds, can talk to you about what they want, have their own little personalities, the list would go on and on.

A few negative things, our little boy was attached to his FM and one day told me exactly what he thought of me whilst doing introductions................apparently I smelt like dog poo!! (I can reassure you I don't, LOL).  It was his way of testing the boundaries as in his eyes his BM, now FM were "giving" him up and he wanted to know if I was in it for the long haul!

I did feel a little envious of other couples who were getting placed with 18 month old child if I am really honest BUT saying that DS was meant to be.  We knew instantly that he was the one, he even looks like my hubby!

I wish you lots of luck, if you go ahead then be prepared for long and tiring introductions, ours were just short of 2 weeks and our son moved in the day before my 30th birthday so a lovely special morning  waking up on my 30th to find our son eagerly bouncing on the bed with a card and gift, my first Mummy card! 

Andrea


----------



## Miny Moo (Jan 13, 2011)

I would be questioning the 'no attachment issues' and think it's very naive to think any child coming to adoption will not have attachment issues, ours adopted separately were 6 an 5 years old when they came to us.
Our son has ADHD, un diagnosed when he came to us, he has severe AD, our daughter who had been here 7 months, settled extremely well, and it is just now issues are starting to rear their heads.
Both of ours go to bed well, neither sleep well though, our son to the point he us medicated to help him sleep, they both have very quirky ways as we like to put it. We liaise frequently with school as both struggle with the social side due to AD rather than the academic side, our school are very very good at trying to get it right for them and we'd are very lucky.
When our son came home I had intended to go back to work part time, it became vet clear to us very quickly that he just would not cope with it so I had to give up my job, so money can be very tight here.
Please make sure you get all the info you can, we love our children with all our hearts but it us extremely hard work, the other thing we have learned is how children present in FC to how they present in a family they believe in their heads can't possibly want them to stay can be very different, FC is a temporary arrangement, and in their heads they know this.
Read, read and read some more about other peoples experiences, I am not trying to put you off on the contrary, I wish more people would consider older children I just want you to go into it armed with as much info as possible to give all of you the best chance you can have.
Good luck and if I can be of any more help please just ask.


----------



## steven28 (Aug 8, 2014)

thanks superal that's really nice, and we think we do know that she is right for us and so does our social worker. I think it is a worry that they already have formed a little personality and you miss out on a lot firsts, but as gay parents we didn't think we would even have children, So  we aren't  too worried about that side of things just really happy to be starting our own little family.  thanks for the advice.

thanks Minny Moo. i think that came across wrong. i dint mean no issues at all. But she came into care at 3 years of age and has formed good attachments with the people around her at the moment and is a very happy confident little girl from what we can piece together from CPR, and meeting the child's social worker.  we have seen doctors reports and physiology reports.  we are defiantly not looking into this lightly -  she appears to have come away a lot less emotionally scared than her older siblings - who are all in the care system, but i suppose only time will tell. There has been no drugs or alcohol and no violence witnessed, and social service have been around most of her life.  Is there anything else we should be asking to see or any questions we should be asking
thanks for the help and advice.


----------



## superal (May 27, 2005)

Hi steven28

Sounds as though this match is for you and I wish you and your partner lots of luck as you start your next stage of the rocky road to adoption.  Intros can be tiring so be kind to yourselves and if you do have a day like I did when our DS told me what I smelt like...........don't beat yourselves up as the following day is a different day as I found out and was greeted at the door by our DS with a big smile on his face saying I'm SORRY mummy, I LOVE YOU! "

Andrea


----------



## Mummy DIY Diva (Feb 18, 2012)

Hi Steven , 
I agree it sounds like you have made a real connection to this Lo. I took on siblings nearly 5 months ago.  The eldest was nearly four the youngest was one. Older children are definitely harder work in general because of the length of time they have had damaging experience. That said one of the smoothest easiest placements I know was an older child so there are exceptions. However they are brilliant company and I have never felt lonely or isolated because I have my constant conversation companion. My eldest didn't rear her head too much for the first two months - just food and bedtime battles. She then started massive violent tantrums ultimately these have got her her own way for all her life so the fact that I refuse to back down to them meant she kicked in and in to force me to concede. touch wood they seem to be getting a lot better. Because of the violence she has witnessed she does things like really fly at me or attempt to grab me round the neck in a strangle hold. Not just the typical lashing out you see from kids her age. 

Also I think in my experience most older children have food issues. My eldest is overweight but slowly loosing. This is because (in my view) she struggles to read her bodies signals due to the neglect she has experienced and also because she lives in fear of not being fed consistently. My eldest sobbed and shared a belief that I wouldn't feed her if she was badly behaved. You need a lot more strength to cope with this hearing that my baby hasn't been fed when she's misbehaved was and is heart braking I'm tearing up just typing it. I explain to her that I'll always feed her meals however she behaves because she needs healthy meals to grow and be healthy and strong. However she currently feels the need to regularly have massive explosions in the run up to meals to test this. Which I am grateful I understand. 

You are thrown in at the deep end. I had to have conversations about my children's history from day one I had to make choices about how open to be with others from day one as my eldest listens and understands and picks up subliminal messages from what I say. 

However she is hard work but she is the most incredible person I know. She has come through so much she honestly has the heart of a lion and watching her develop from the fearful child who wouldn't interact with anything around her to the confident bossy monkey she is becoming is the most amazing thing I have ever experienced. I love my children equally but I think I'll probably always feel more protective and proud of my eldest's achievements because so much has been stacked against her. 

Work is a big consideration I will have to leave indefinitely. I thought I'd go back when both were at school but my husband and I were discussing it and were not even sure that at high school age my eldest would cope without me being there to see her off and be there when she gets in. I'm okay with this they are my priority but I'd be lying to say that knowing I'll probably never really achieve anything career wise isn't a disappointment and a loss. Ultimately I'll find something school hours term time only I'm sure but it won't be high flying or personally fulfilling.  Also the financial implications are big were fortunate and can live off DH's earnings. 

Good luck it's the most amazing thing you'll ever do. Our girls have made our world amazing and transformed our lives they are the best thing ever xxx


----------



## MummyPhinie (Oct 27, 2013)

Hi Steven

I echo mummy DIY diva. Honestly I feel I could have written most of the same.

We have a sibling group of 3 with the eldest just turned 4 the day before intros. Our age range was 1-6 assuming that a sibling group of 2-3 might have some age gaps, how wrong we were!,
We are still early stages of placement so my little one is still in settling in period but I wanted to share my experience.
Attachment - ours had good formed relationships with all carers in their life at one stage (SS involvement from a very young age). Obviously these deteriorated over time. Appeared well attached in FC and very happy but we have been told that actually suffers from avoidant attachment. On surface appears attached but emotions are very different. We have very matter of fact sometimes void of feeling conversations about bm, FC etc. used cuddlies as a buffer to getting close. So while appears to be bonding and building attachments we work very hard on controlling cuddly toys (when upset sometimes prefers to hug her hippo than me who is sitting right alongside...we end up in group cuddles a lot) and we also attach emotions to discussion points, eg, do you feel sad when you think about FC/bm?
Food - I would imagine that most children who are neglected have issues with food and in reality all 3 of mine do in different ways. Poor thing didn't know when next meal was coming so says I'm hungry a lot. They have also done this in a manipulative format if they are bored or refused something like a toy or a game etc will ask for food and cry about being hungry as they know you can't refuse food. We have fairly structured snack and meal times and always explain when and what the next meal consists of, we also believe was over fed in FC so working on that too.
Emotional state - our LO being older can show a massive array of emotions from intense tears to tantrums, we sometimes have a very sad little one to a complete spoiled brat. They also have the flappiest ears so pick up on everything. We learnt a lot from FC about behaviour, triggers and how to resolve. I feel like I'm butting heads a lot but part of me likes the defiant part as it shows a really strong personality. Our psychologist explained about the arousal state, and I really see it in my LO. Poor thing just can't diffuse themselves when distressed so we work a lot on that bringing them down and helping to control emotions. Nobody can really ever truly know what they have experienced despite knowing history, so be prepared for the unexpected.

Now having said enough bad stuff hear are the good points!

I have a chatterbox companion! They are inquisitive and thoughtful and come out with the cutest, funniest and most adorable stuff. My LO cuddling and telling me they love me or think I look gorgeous ( I do a lot of work on their self image and importance), makes the hard work worth it. Or announcing in a public toilet they have done a creaking poo....priceless! 
Taking on family traits! Honestly some days I have to double check ourselves that these aren't our own biological children!
School, the pride of seeing your LO in uniform on first day, seeing them go out in the world exploring and making new friends and the pick up when they yell ' mummy' so loud and launch themselves at you, you just beam and tear up.
For us the teaching of younger siblings is hilarious and such a bonding experience, we are commencing potty trying with no2 at present and eldest is being so cute and caring.
Doing all the nice dressing up, imaginary play, role play is so much fun.
Seeing them learning at such a pace too.

I sometimes really feel that although I'm a mother that has to control boundaries and do all the boring stuff I'm also a friend and confidante. Like. DIY diva I feel such immense pride on what they take on board despite the utter hell of what they have been through.
Good luck


----------



## steven28 (Aug 8, 2014)

Thanks a lot for the advice  mummy DIY diva, and  Phinie35 we will definitely take on board the things you have said. There has not been a lot said about food-just that she will eat most things, so will be looking into that further.  thanks for letting us know the postives as well. This gets makes me very happy and excited. its been a long journey to this point. so hopefully this will be the start of the next chapter of this journey. thanks ladies.


----------



## Mummy DIY Diva (Feb 18, 2012)

With stuff like food you'll only get the information from fc in my experience.  SW's focus on will they eat vegetables are they fussy. Fc will tell you if they obsess with it constantly ask for it etc. I involve my eldest in cooking and choosing meals a lot which seems to work for her and give her a sense of control over food that reassures her.  

The attachment thing is interesting to our eldest on face value was huggy and clingy so assumed to have good attachments however as my dh said adults don't form meaningful relationships quickly so why the hell would a child who has been shown nothing but horrendous examples.  I would honestly say it's taken till the last couple of weeks for my eldest to begin to have feelings other than reliance.  I see this because her confidence is growing and she no longer sticks to me like glue.  I think this is because she's beginning to trust me.  I have faith that we'll get there and I see a lot of positive glimmers now.  Just don't stress when feelings aren't instant on either sides.  I had a massive instant connection with my two and they instantly felt like mine but it wasn't love.  The love has finally come ( I was starting to panic bit last month ) I just realised the other morning when we were cuddling and having milk first thing that they were etched into my soul in a way I can't explain and started crying at the thought they could be somewhere else.  Anyway I'm waffling.  Good luck and stay in touch would love to hear how you get on and always happy to give any advice I can not that I'm any kind of expert.  Just think it is a bit easier on tough days when someone else says yes we had that were past it now xx


----------



## steven28 (Aug 8, 2014)

thanks Mummy DIY Diva that's really lovely to hear, and i agree with your husband on the attachment stuff - i myself can take along time to attach to people and i had a very happy childhood. I will certainly be asking foster carer those sorts of questions.     thanks for all the advice.


----------



## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

We had younger children placed, 19 and 10 months, so I don't really have anything to offer on that front.

But, I do agree with other comments that huggy/clingy definitely doesn't mean a secure attachment, in fact it can quite often show an insecure attachment. 

I also completely agree with comments regarding food.  I think in general foster carer training is somewhat lacking on this issue as the number of children coming from foster placement to adoption overweight and being allowed to eat excessively or comfort eat to manage behaviour seems to be quite large.  I think foster carers often with the very best of intentions try and give children what they've missed out on in this respect - full meals, treats, etc - but often children with a neglect background simply don't recognise full and will eat when food is there in the fear that it won't always be, and ask for more.  Our daughter was placed much younger, but she still has food issues and simply never refuses available food.  She was very overweight when she came to us at 19 months and 32lb.  Now 2 years 4 months later and with only a 9lb weight gain from 19 months to nearly 4 she is a healthy weight for her height, although she is still big framed and in 95th percentile for weight (also height).  She still eats a lot, but it is largely healthy and we are a very active family.  At placement she was well on the road to being obese and our HV and GP flagged it up immediately on meeting her as a concern.


----------



## Millie Moo (May 20, 2012)

We adopted siblings in January aged 4 and 6.  I think there are so many advantages of having older children. The main thing for us was that there were too many unknowns with a baby.  With an older child there is more likelihood that there has been a diagnosis so you have an idea of what you might be dealing with. Our two already had speech therapy and our son had a SEN.  As a lot of parents will tell you, getting a SEN in place is difficult. Older children are more able to verbalise their worries and we have had quite a few disclosures of things that happened at home that social workers knew nothing about.  I don't expect the social worker to know everything of course, how can they? But at least it helps you understand the childs behaviour.

If I were in your position, I would want to know why the older siblings were taken into care. You say there is no evidence of drugs/alcohol or domestic violence but I would say it's pretty rare for kids to be removed without any of these factors.  Can you get information about the parents mental health history and how are the siblings? Do they have any health issues like FAS, ADHD, autism etc. Our kids foster carers told us information that social workers never disclosed to us. Such as sexualised behaviours. No mention of that in the CPR.  Who has made the judgement that the child has formed a secure attachment? Is is someone qualified to make that judgement? Do a chronology of the CPR and look at the dates. Are there any big gaps? What was going on during that time?

Firsts.  Hmm, I get a bit frustrated when people mention firsts in relation to babies.  Life would be pretty dull and pointless if our firsts ended at the age of 2.  We've had so many firsts with ours, first day at school, first time on a boat, first time being able to say swimming instead of wimmin, first time eating at Wagamamas, first time writing their name, etc etc.

I hope it works out for you, 4 is such a lovely age but do ask lots of questions.


----------



## steven28 (Aug 8, 2014)

thanks a lot Millie Moo and Wyxie. it has giving us a lot to think about.  we think she is right for us. but its nice to have as much information as possible before you make the biggest decision of your life. thanks alot and will keep you posted if the child and sw agree that we are rightfor her.


----------



## GoofyGirl (Apr 1, 2013)

Good luck Steven. Wishing you all the best with your little one.


----------



## steven28 (Aug 8, 2014)

thanks GoofyGirl.


----------

