# New Scotland IVF Criteria



## Candy-floss (Oct 4, 2012)

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2013/05/IVFservices15052013

Thought I would post on Central Scotland as I hit wrong button & seen it on Regions in Scotland page posted by another FF member.

Just incase anyone missed it too!


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## E11e (Mar 26, 2012)

Welcome news and will be good to see an end to the postcode lottery.

Pity it's taken so long to get to this stage, but I'm glad for future patients who won't have to wait anywhere near as long as some of us have for treatment.

Does anyone know when the criteria officially comes into force?  The criteria in my area (NHS greater glasgow & clyde) is up to 2 cycles, only one of which must be fresh.  The new criteria implies patients will be entitled to 2 fresh cycles and unlimited frozen.  I'm in at GRI next week so I'll be asking then, but would be good to know my entitlement before going in, just in case there's any debate.

Elle.


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## lulubee (Mar 25, 2012)

There was an article in the paper a few months back saying the waiting time had gone down to 12 months so after my first private treatment failed I phoned to see where I was on nhs list, it's 23 months now rather than 24 and they thought this was amazing and said it probably won't reduce much further I really didn't see the point in them boasting in the paper for the sameness of 1 month but let's hope the changes happen quicker than they say xxx


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## Candy-floss (Oct 4, 2012)

E11e,

Ministers have agreed the Group’s recommendations and the changes will come into force on July 1, 2013.

The new criteria will, for the first time, unify NHS IVF services in Scotland and reduce current inequity of services and waiting times to 12 months by  March 31, 2015.

Still a long way off for waiting time reductions but hopefully it will help ladies in the future xx


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## E11e (Mar 26, 2012)

Thanks Candy-Floss!

Now just have to hope that there isn't any sneaky interpretation that says the new entitlement is only for those commencing treatment on or after 1 Jul 13...


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## Candy-floss (Oct 4, 2012)

I had to wait 12 months & it has felt like a lifetime! Nearly started now at GRI......had prescreening appt last weekend & follow up appt on 3rd June for results/protocol & hopefully start date  

What stage are you at?

x


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## Lawmonkey (Sep 20, 2012)

Hi everyone 

I have been really stressing out over this! My bmi sits at just above 35 and no matter what I do I struggle to reach 35 to start treatments. The hospital were not keen to transfer me to the nutritionist as it would delay my treatments!! I was pretty emotional at the time and couldn't speak but I felt that surely they would rather I be in tip top shape?! 
Anyway due back on thurs for first ivf consultation appointment and am terrified of my weight being above the bmi of 35 never mind 30. I would gave to lose another 2 1/5 stone to get there and after nearly 5 years of waiting to ge to this stage I'm not sure I can take it! 

Just really venting here sorry! Hope all goes well with your treatments ladies 

Baby dust to all xx


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## [email protected]@h (Dec 11, 2012)

Lawmonkey said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> I have been really stressing over this!!


Hi, ERI has a limit of 30 and I was just shy of 33 now down to 31.5. Its no secret - move more and eat less, how many times have we heard this eh?.

I don't smoke or drink anymore and have gained weight and haven't lost it since I quit. I am now stuck in the cycle of comfort eating. I am rubbish at diets so what I am doing and it is actually working is the gym. Join a low cost one without a contract and get started. I downloaded the "nhs couch to five km" podcast. The first week I couldn't run for 60 seconds without getting knackered and having to stop, now I can run a full five mins, walk for two, run for five, walk for two etc. the progression is amazing. 
Iknow what your thinking, the idea of being seen sweaty, red faced and dare I say it - jiggling, at the gym is not fun but everyone has to start somewhere. Just doing this and not really changing my diet is doing the trick. And I swear I'd rather hit the gym three times a week than do weight watchers!

Most importantly is that the risks due to obesity in ivf treatment, pregnancy and birth are very real, why do we want to add any more problems to the ones we already have?? I hope that doesn't sound obnoxious or cruel, it's just the truth!

If you put your mind to it, you will get there. when I pass the cake shop or can't be arsed to go the gym, I think to myself what all this is for. X


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## E11e (Mar 26, 2012)

Candy-floss - looks like you and I might be cycling round about the same time.  I've been on the waiting list since Nov '10, so coming up for 2.5 years waiting    I've got an appointment next week which I think is for consents and a mini scan, so hoping to get started in June/July.


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## jen26267 (May 19, 2013)

I had a look at the new criteria and there is no mention of previous children. Does anyone know if those who already have children will now qualify for IVF on the NHS?

Thanks
Jen


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## Candy-floss (Oct 4, 2012)

Lawmonkey I think [email protected]@hs advice is very true, my weight has been up and done like a yo yo for years (mainly due to life changing events) but I did at one point get to and maintain a very healthy BMI after losing nearly 5 stones!! Then something else happened and I struggled to keep weight on and had to learn to try gain weight again      . I'm slightly worried though as it has crept back up over the past 2 yrs and its around the BMI 30 mark at the moment. Set small goals to begin with and you WILL get there. Try not to stress and see how Thurs goes  

E11e, whats your mini scan for? Have you returned your forms yet? Really hoping that my apt on 3dr goes well and then I can join cycle thread and GRI with some firm dates  

Jen, sorry I cant help you on that one but you are right it doesn't mention it. I would imagine it will stay the same as it is now but who knows!


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## E11e (Mar 26, 2012)

Candy-floss - I've no idea what it's for (or even if it's a 'mini scan'), its handwritten on the letter and could either say mini scan, mini screen or mini screw. Scan seems more likely but who knows!


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## [email protected]@h (Dec 11, 2012)

If you go to the publications section on the scottish government website the full document is there. It reads to me that  if the male partner has a child you can get treatment if you don't have any children, but if you have a child and your dp/dh doesn't you won't get treatment.


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## E11e (Mar 26, 2012)

So it turns out the mini scan/mini screen was actually just a chat with the nurse to complete the paperwork and a blood test to get my amh levels done again.

They were able to confirm that the new entitlement of 2 full cycles and unlimited frozen is available to me, which was great!  But they said that this is no change to what Greater Glasgow & Clyde patients had previously been entitled to, which isn't what I had been told previously.  No matter, I'm delighted that they were able to confirm this as it's put my mind at rest and means we can just concentrate on getting started.

Need to wait on results of amh to determine which protocol, then it should be all systems go


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## Candy-floss (Oct 4, 2012)

Argh! Typed a post then it disappeared!  

Elle,

Was wondering how you got on  

How many cycles were you told you could have previously? 

You sound like you had what happened at my appt on the 11th (although I had a swab done too!  ) We got our forms to take away & complete then return them at our next appt. Were you returning yours at that appt or taking them away to complete? 

I'm really hoping they can start us when we return. Don't know our protocol yet but I will be CD20 on the day we have to go back !


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## E11e (Mar 26, 2012)

Hi Candy-floss,

We were returning our forms yesterday.  They had been sent out by post in January when we were advised that we had reached the top of the list.  I didn't need swabs as I had IUI last year so I think all my tests are up to date.

We had previosuly been advised that we were entitled to 2 rounds, only one of which had to be a fresh round.  But yesterday we were told that was incorrect and that we had always been entitled to 2 fresh rounds, plus frozen in addition.  As I say, it doesn't matter I'm just delighted that they were able to confirm that yesterday and we can look forward to getting started.

I don't have another appoinment scheduled.  I've just to await the results of my amh test then they'll be able to confirm which protocol I'll be on and hopefully get started on my next cycle after than, which will probably be around July.

Not long until your next appointment then - hope all goes well and you get a start date soon 

Elle.


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## Candy-floss (Oct 4, 2012)

Hi E11e,

Have you got your start date yet?


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## FertileRoad (Nov 3, 2011)

Interesting thread  looking at the criteria for over 40 - 42
For couples where the woman is aged from the day after her 40th birthday to 42 one full cycle will be offered if:
They have never previously had IVF treatment
There is no evidence of poor ovarian reserve and if, in the treating clinician’s view it is in the  patients’ interest
There has been a discussion of the additional implications of IVF and pregnancy at this age.


Would I be concidered 42 and 4 months when July comes round?

Also the Criterian for all couples recommends
Neither partner to have undergone voluntary sterilisation, even if sterilisation reversal has been self-funded. 

I presum when the say recommendation it could be reconsidered - DP had vasectomy and reversal over 13 years ago no joy! 
Could we be considered?


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## E11e (Mar 26, 2012)

Hi Candy-floss,

I've had confirmation of which protocol I'll be on following my amh levels being redone.  AMH is now 24.1 which is a bit down from last year, but not greatly.  Quite relieved it hasn't dropped more.  So I'll be on protocol 4 and need to start metformin on day 21 of cycle.  Need to call GRI on day 1 of cycle to book a scan.  Unfortunately there were no slots available for my current cycle so they have made a provisional appointment for me for end of July, which seems like ages away but I know it'll come round soon and just means I have a few more weeks to get extra healthy  

How are you getting on?  I see from the GRI thread that you've got a scan provisionally booked for mid July, so looks like we might be cycling round about the same time!  How are you feeling about it all?

FertileRoad - sorry I'm not sure how the criteria is going to be implemented but I would imagine if there was a chance that you would not now be eligible and were already on the waiting list they would have got in touch to discuss it with you.  If you're concerned might it be worth a call to GRI?  I'm sure they'll give you what info they can.

E11e.x


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## Candy-floss (Oct 4, 2012)

Sorry fertileroad, I'm not sure either, again as E11e has said maybe call GRI or GCRM and hopefully they will be able to give more info.

E11e - I'm glad I'm on protocol 7 as I really struggle to swallow tablets (it's all in my head I know   ) Trying to manage a pregnacare vitamin everyday takes about 10mins! I know how you feel about July seeming likes aaaaages away! I was quite disappointed that they couldn't fit me in this cycle too but what will be will be. I've to call on CD1 too and then I will get prostap on CD21. They have given me a provisional date for 22nd July so hopefully at that scan my body will have switched off enough to begin stimming then! Slightly worried how the side effects of the prostap will be - described as menopause didn't fill my DP with much joy when the nurse told us    Nervous, excited & impatient sums up the feelings for now.....what about you?

X


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## foreverhopefull2013 (Jan 31, 2013)

Interesting re 40-42 bracket. I turn 40 in August. I asked my clinic GCRM re this and about 3 weeks ago and he told me I needed to be 38 to on the list. Though this reads on the contrary, so will need to re visit this with him! Thanks for this post! x


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## ellej74 (Dec 22, 2011)

Hi ..just noticed this thread. I not sure where we stand with new rules. We had 1 self funded cycle last year -bfn and a nhs funded cycle in april - bfp but now a early miscarriage with complications. Because we paid for 1st cycle we lost our 2nd nhs try. As far as I can tell we still meet all the criteria and I think it details if you have previously paid for treatment you are still entitled to 2 cycles. We don't have  magic pot of money and up against it a bit as I am 39. Do you think ifmy doctor refers us and I speak to our consultant they might honour our 2nd cycle. Tbh part of the reasons we paid last year was due to waiting list being so long...then 6 months later we were at the top. Its all so hard. Any advice v welcome xx


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## Candy-floss (Oct 4, 2012)

Ellej I can't believe because you self funded a cycle you have had your 2nd go taken away!! I'm so sorry you ended up having mc   I would defo get in touch with your GP or consultant & ask. 

Don't give up & good luck xx


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## ellej74 (Dec 22, 2011)

Thankyou Candyfloss -Its been very hard - after getting a bfp its been a rollercoaster. Am being monitored for ectopic( or preganancy of unknown location) as my hcg levels have not dropped. So its hard to move forward at the moment. The whole losing an nhs turn was difficult enough a decision to make last year but we felt at the time we couldnt wait as waiting list was 12-18months, that has obvs come down dramatically now. This whole journey is so hard and this cycle has really knocked me but we are stil determinded we will get there in the end. Are you about to start a cycle - is it your first one? Hope all going well xx


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## Candy-floss (Oct 4, 2012)

I can't imagine what you have been through, your hcg levels not dropping can't be helping, it must be difficult like you said trying to move on from this.

Time is precious & completely understand you wanting to self fund rather than have a longer wait. I didn't realise that it would mean losing an NHS shot! 

It's great that you are both still determined. Where abouts are you? Which clinic did you attend? I really would pursue the chance of your other NHS shot when you are both ready.

Yip, this is my first IVF cycle, prostap booked for 2nd July, guessing that EC may fall around 1st week in August. I'm nervous & excited. Think it's all the unknown of what to expect & side effects from drugs! Trying not to build my hopes up if that makes sense but can't help but want this sooo much, just don't want to fall with a really hard bump IF it doesn't work.

I'm sure everyone must go through the same struggle xx


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## Candy-floss (Oct 4, 2012)

Sorry, I've just seen your signature you are at ERI, I'm at GRI x


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## foreverhopefull2013 (Jan 31, 2013)

You need to be 38 to get on the NHS list, ive just checked!! You can get on the 40-42 list as long as you register before your 40th, though you cant have a low AMH and you cant have tried a cycle elsewhere, we have a low amh and also have a failed cycle at gcrm, so we are stuffed!! Ridiculous rules. Surely most 40 something woman cant get pregnant due a low AMH.. The NHS must see our bodies as useless..


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## FertileRoad (Nov 3, 2011)

for us 'oldies' as the nhs seem to think! Has anyone tried to ask their GP to pay for the drugs that we need tp pay for going private, just thought that they may pay since we are not getting any of the 'free' cycle?


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## ellej74 (Dec 22, 2011)

My doc has said she would  look into possibility of giving prescription for drugs if we need and will write to eri to support my case for 2nd nhs cycle as im 39. No harm in asking. Its all so stressful. Our GP has been great most of the time and very helpful but it can be mixed bag.lots of luck to all xx


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## littlewhisper (Feb 28, 2013)

Criteria from one day past 40-42:

 They have never previously had IVF treatment
 There is no evidence of poor ovarian reserve and if, in the treating clinician’s view it is in the  patients’ interest
 There has been a discussion of the additional implications of IVF and pregnancy at this age.

Fertile road , I was excited when I read this because I thought it mean't any NHS treatment however after writing to the government contact responsible for the infertility treatment amendments to the government she wrote back and said no it was 'any' treatment including private!!!!! It's very unfair as up until you are 40 they will consider letting you have one cycle even if you have had private treatment ( which is likely at 40-42 because we weren't bloody eligible before!) but one day past 40 and you can't get it!

So I am also going to ask my GP about helping out with the drugs but not holding out much hope!

LW x


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## FertileRoad (Nov 3, 2011)

I too going to ask my GP for help with the drugs - but like others will not hold out much hope. I did think she would have offered esp as she has been my doctor since I was teenager and she knew my exceptionally bad past history and why I cant have children. We can only ask, but part of me hates going cap in hand! another but I've paid into NHS all working life 16 onwards is it not time to get a little back!


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## foreverhopefull2013 (Jan 31, 2013)

I asked gcrm about the nhs, marco referred me to lister in Kilmarnock and I have just had my initial consultation through the post today for july! Totally confused though, as ive had a failed round and have a low amh 3.6! I did ask marco repeatedly re the guidelines and hes referred me anyway, so im thinking, do I just go and waste half a day off work to be told what I already know. Or do I call them at lister and check?


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## littlewhisper (Feb 28, 2013)

Forever, I think you're ok to have a low AMH if you are under 40 , you can still be referred. They'll consider you even if you've cycled before if your consultant thinks its worth trying again. Didn't know there was a Lister in Kilmarnock  Good luck anyway hope you get something out of it


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