# anyone have any info on low hcg result on blood test day?



## mimtusk (Jul 7, 2004)

Hi
I've just had my pt today and the result was a low hcg so its not looking good.  The clinic told us that the embryo/s may have tried to implant but then gave up - why would they do this?  
Was it something I could have done - i.e. lifted something too heavy?  We had loads of stress during the 2ww - could this have contributed?  
They also said that there is a possiblity that it could be an ectopic pregnancy - sounds really strange how this could occur during an IVF treatment.
They've prepared me for the worst and I have to go for another test on Wednesday.
Has anyone experienced this and know anything about it and has anyone gone on to have a successful pregnancy??
The unknown is killing me!!
K x


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## LizzyB (Mar 25, 2003)

Hi Kate,

I'm sorry you are having to go through this hun......it must be a nightmare of a wait for you.

I really don't think it's anything you have done at all......i think unfortunately it's just one of those things.

There have been ladies on here who have had very low levels and yet gone on to get BFPs but it really could go either way hun. I'm sorry i can't be more helpful, i'll see if i can find any more info for you.

So much luck for Wednesday   

Lizzy xxx


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## Betty M (Dec 6, 2005)

Katie 
It really depends on how low is low. My DD started as a HCG of 46 which was under my clinic's minimum of 50 for a sure fire BFP but obviously she did ok. If you go to www.betabase.info you will find a database which shows HCG data for each day post ovulation/EC which have gone on to be successful pregnancies. You will see some very low numbers indeed in there although not very many.

If your embies "gave up" which is a horrid way for your clinic to put it it might be because of any number of things - chromosomal abnormalities, issues with the lining, pure chance. I doubt it would be anything you did or didnt do on the 2ww and you shouldnt blame yourself for anything.

Ectopics can definitely happen with IVF in fact I've read that IVF increases the risk of an ectopic from about 1% in the normal population to 3%. Why theuy happen I dont know.

I hope that Weds shows your HCG rising nicely and you go on to have a successful pregnacy.
Bettyx

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## Snowdrop (Jul 19, 2004)

Hi K

I am sorry that you are going through this.  I am at Bourn Hall too, the exact same thing happened to me last year.  HCG was low at 22, called back to the clinic 5 days later, my bloods had risen but not significantly.  I was warned of an ectopic and taken in for a scan at 6 weeks 2 days, to my delight I saw my baby's heartbeat.  My 8 week scan shew that all was well, I had bouts of morning sickness which indicated that  my HCG was high.  Sadly I did go on to lose my baby, but I honestly do not believe that this had anything to do with the HCG initially being low.  

Nothing you have done will have caused this, it could be that your embryo was a late attacher.

I know how hard it is for you, but please try and stay positive.  I have read many stories of women with low hcg going on to have a healthy pregnancy.

Take care


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## three_stars (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi K,  I hope you do not mind me jumping in here; seems we are a bit in the same boat and I was looking around outside the ABroadies thread for any other info.  I know first hand how frustrating it is to get a very low Beta.  I have now had three times in a row that my cycle turned out this way but this time it did not just drop off on the second beta test so we are fighting to save the little bean.  No idea what chance I have or what it will mean later but thought this time it was worth a try. Most DRs just let it go under 50 or certainly under 20 but I guess since my own DR had her little girl with a first test of only HCG=4 she has given me a glimmer of hope. The bad part is not really being a BFP but not a negative either so not able to stop meds and move forward. 

I am now on my 3ww; ET was Fev 7.  And seems all I can do now is wait and hold my breathe-- next test is MOnday.
I  had my first HCG at 12 dp 3dt of 3 top 8 cell embies ( double donor)  and only had HCG=7.  in three days they only went to HCG=12, but at least did not drop as in my previous three failures when I actually did a HCG at day 12.  May have happened other times as well and I just didn't know it. Also the previous cycles there may have been other reasons- bad sperm, embryos not perfect, polyps, high prolactin, etc.  All these things were eliminated on this recent cycle,we believed.  
But now my DR feels that there must be something not right in the lining even though I just did another D and C after a hysterscopy at the end of last year.  It seems you may have more chance to get PG just after a scraping and I had shown again some small polyps and hyperplasia.  On the other hand the scraping itseslf can casue scr tissue and the polyps also can grow back.

My DR also spoke about the risk of ectopic PG so it does seem the low numbers can indicate a risk of this??

Well I decided to take all the risks and the long shot and have started doing injection og Pregnyl (HCG 1500) every other day.  I will test again on Monday before taking my third shot and then get a new result on Tuesday.  The pregnyl obviously itself will make the blood test go up but I have no idea by how much.  What I was told is that if we can get the beta HCG up to 1000 I could stop the injections and the pregnancy should go on from there.  Of course no I worry with such a bad start maybe it damaged the embryo(s) and may still just be heading for another m/c.  

I do not know if any of this info is helpful to you;  I was hoping maybe other members may have some comment if they have experienced the same??  I find it really disheartening when I started out with these three great embies and was given 80%-- I was worried about the risk of triplets!  Now I feel like I am fighting for one straggler to make it and grow!

I have been doing all the same blame questions- is it lifting, caffeine, stress.. been plenty of that... but my DR just thinks that it is something in the lining and that can be a reason that the embies would have tried to implant in the tubes  Not sure if I follow that theory.  I just do not really imagine them zipping all over the uterus and tubes.  

Snowdrop..  was that scan you had 6 wks 2 days past ET?  I really want to know what would be the earliest you could scan for an ectopic.  I am sorry you lost the baby later- that is so hard. I am dreading  having that happen again.  I lost a baby at 11 weeks, a natural pg a few yeasr ago, and had already told everyone.  Now I feel like that I have to keep this all to myslef and the whole thing is just torturing me every day.  I do not seem to have any PG signs whatsopever except for really tired.  

bonnie


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## Snowdrop (Jul 19, 2004)

Hi Bonnie,

I am sorry to see that you are experiencing this too.

I had first bloods taken at 15 days, second bloods at 20 days, scan followed 10 days afterwards.  So scan was 30 days after egg collection, 28 days after transfer.

Hope this helps

Good luck xx


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## three_stars (Jan 19, 2006)

Thanks for your reply 
That is earlier then I thought so that is good news.  Means I could be looking at a scan as soon as March 7.  About to leave to do another HCG and wait for results this evening.
Bonnie


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## mimtusk (Jul 7, 2004)

Thanks for your replies - I'm still sitting here crossing my fingers.  I rang the clinic this morning and they told me that my levels on Friday were 19.5 so I know this is very low but your stories have given me glimmers of hope, thankyou - and thank you b123 for sharing your story, it really does help when you know there are other people out there in the same boat as you, like you said it's hard when it's not a positive but not a negative either - we're just in limbo but we must remember to stay postive - I'm sending you all my wishes for a happy result for you on Monday   you deserve it!
Still no signs of AF though so that's all good but then I suppose thats prob due to the Cyclogest?
Am thinking of doing an hpt tomorrow but don't know if I've got the courage as I know that if its a bnp again tomorrow then things are really really bleak.
Think I'm going mad!
K x


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## three_stars (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi again Kate,

Well my third HCG came back 49 so the emby is alive but not doing so well that's for sure.  I had injected twice with HCG and my DR said that would add about 10 to the level so it has not really quite doubled... still I continue and will test again in 4 days.  She also said tonight that I should retest my progesterone ( wish she had said today so I could have done it with the HCG- I feel likel a regular pin cushion!!!)  If the level is less then 15  I may not be getting enough and a PIO injection would be in order, something you may want to have a look at as well.

I don't advise you to torture yourself with HPT as it may or may not be picking it up right now as you are a bit borderline for that. 5 the pick up at 20-50 depending on the stick) Best to stick with the blood test to see if it is doubling- what you need to see now is the real numbers.  
ALso if you are on progesterone and estrogen it is an artificial cycle so your AF will not come unless you stop these meds... something I had forgotten about as I was certain my symptoms were PMS! must have actually been the little one trying to implant really late. I think this would be for DE but not sure what your tx was. 
I feel really rough as I know my FF "buddies" are anxious too and not sure what to say.  Everyone usually gets a "yeah BFP" or so "sorry for BFN" and in between is a bit like some unknown illness or something.  
I guess we will go mad together but have our little ones to keep ourselves busy somewhat.

Have you gone ahead with HCG injections?  It seems that they can't hurt.  I know if it were not that my DR went through exactly the same thing with her baby, I know I would not be doing all this right now and I would have already been written off by everyother clinic/ DR.  Nobody in this business seems to give you much after ET support; I know when we go abroad for tx it is especially hard but in fact have had better follow up abroad then I ever did with my local clinics in Paris.

When I last had a full miscarriage 2-2004 ( 11 weeks versus just a few like last several times)
I was just arriving on holiday to the Carribbean and it started on the way to the airport, worsened in flight.  It was the first tropical beach holiday for ages- my DD was just 1 yr and there has not been another trip since that was not realted to IVF.  I remember being at a sort of island hospital on a sunday wee hours after a island wide power outage just after arrival-  I was struggling to get to hospital and was just left sitting there for hours as well while I knew I was losing my baby and was just praying they could do something and help make it stop.  
Actually I can not even finish the story as it is so upsetting still how this stupid so called DR handled me and what he said to me.  Staying on the rest of the week was just horrible for all three of us.  Not even sure why I am thinking about that; guess because if after all this I get this little struggling emby to stick then I will be worrying all the way until past first trimester about m/c.  
Although my DR said that the low levels do not indicate that the emby is bad- in fact mine was certainly top rated- but that it is not getting a good hold and nurturing.  She told me if I could get the HCG up and doubling, once I got to 1000 there should be no additional reason to think  this has been cause for m/c.  
Who knows really?    This is I think my 15 or  16th fertility cycle now; 4 in last 12 months.  
I just can't give up now.
Hang in there Kate.

Bonnie x


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## Panda7 (Jan 11, 2006)

Hello Bonnie, can i ask what you mean by testing your hcg levels, are you able to do this yourself without having to go to a clinic for a blood test? i dont mean to be dim but you seen very precise in the hcg level and i thought only the doctors could know/tell that
sorry for butting in but i test on thursday and AF arrived today and all i thought i could do to confirm  things was a regular hpt
please can you help me understand (am not holding out any hope obviously for thursday but it would be useful to know in future if there was a way to monitor my hcg levels myself
thanks very much
zula


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## three_stars (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi there, HCG is also called a beta test here. Beta HCG meaning the HCG level in your blood. Over 2 is technically positive but under 20 is not even picked up on even the most sensitive p sticks ( HPT). You have to ask for the number at some places because I know many GPs and labs will just tell you pos/ neg. I the other hand I know some fertility clinics will only give you the number and will not say anything more- leaving you to discuss with your GYN.

IMHO home p sticks are rather a waste of money. My first two this cycle were negative and I was ready to stop all meds but then it came back slightly positive and growing, even though slowly.

It is a bit torture to have low levels but some women do go on the have BFP and live babes. So many GYN: clinics do no after ET follow in testing and basically do not give a chance to anything not implanting well. Usually I start doing HCG test day 14 after ET.

Have a look online about HCG tests. Here are some links of interest

http://www.fertilityplus.org/faq/hormonelevels.html
http://www.advancedfertility.com/earlypre.htm

Your Beta is the blood test you take to confirm your pregnancy. The test measures the amount of HCG in your bloodstream. In very early pregnancy, the numbers might not be very high but they should quickly increase.

A single HCG level can't really tell you much about your pregnancy but watching the increase over several days is one way of measuring the viability of the pregnancy.

As this site demonstrates, there is a large variation in beta numbers in a "normal" pregnancy. Caution must be used in making too much of HCG numbers and your Doctor is your best source of advice about your own pregnancy. An ultrasound at five or six weeks of pregnancy can better predict a good pregnancy outcome than any number of beta tests. As a note, you won't expect to see a gestational sac or the fetus until the HCG level reaches at least 1,200 mIU/ml. And you probably won't see a heartbeat until that level reaches at least 6,000 mIU/ml.

http://www.betabase.info/showBasicChart.php?type=Single

hope that helps

B123

/links


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## Panda7 (Jan 11, 2006)

thank you very much thats great information
take care
zu


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## mimtusk (Jul 7, 2004)

Hi Bonnie 
I was thinking about you today   Good news your levels are still on the rise - any rise means that your little emby is still fighting - looks like you've got a little strong one there!  

Not sure what you mean about the PIO? My tx is simply blast FET so have no hcg injections or anything, just cyclogest and Progynova - maybe my clinic will advise tomorrow depending on the result.

What you went through on holiday was awful!  It must've been hard for you to try and remain cheerful for the sake of your dd - you must be such a strong person.

I have only found your message today advising against doing an hpt and I must admit I relented this morning, after much consideration, and did one ... the result came back with a v v v feint line - I would like to think that this indicates my hcg levels rising but on the other hand with it being so feint the levels are obviously still not very high ... so still in limbo!!    Is it true that hpt pick up at only 20 hcg?  I thought it was 50.

Ok, keep your chin up Bonnie - sending lots of good luck your way
K x


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

mimtusk said:


> Is it true that hpt pick up at only 20 hcg? I thought it was 50.


Hi

Some hpts can detect as little as 10miu of HCG hormone in your wee (I've seen these available on eBay - not sure of brand name)....others may detect 20/25/50 miu...it really does depend on the actual brand of test.

Check out this website as it lists different measurements detected...

http://www.babyhopes.com/pregnancy-test-sensitivity.html

these are also interesting websites

www.peeonastick.com

http://conception.lifetips.com/cat/55502/home-pregnancy-tests/index.html

You may also be interested in the websites listed on this "sticky" thread towards the top of this board...here's the link...

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=47703.0

With our last FET I had very very faint +ves for a week from test day...the tests detected between 20-50 miu (if I remember correctly) but its always best to try and use the same test brand so easier to compare. Unfortunately my hcg levels did drop from 20.9miu to 5.8miu but did still show on hpts so a bit confusing...apparently although the manufacturers say that a test may only detect 20miu or 25miu etc, they can sometimes pick up lower levels. However, saying all that, I hope your faint line gets stronger...

As mentioned, a BETA hcg blood test is a qualitative tests to is way more sensitive as it shows the actual level of hcg in the blood stream...this should double approx every 48 hours.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you & hope those levels rise...

Good luck  
Natasha

[red]This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites[/red]


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## mimtusk (Jul 7, 2004)

Thanks for your reply Minxy - your links proved ever so interesting.  I used a First Response which according to one of your links detects a minimum hcg level of 25 and so if that's correct it would mean that my levels have risen but it doesn't really look like they've actually doubled.
Not too much longer to wait now tho as all will be revealed tomorrow.
K  x


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## mimtusk (Jul 7, 2004)

Ok - just had my 'phone call' ... they say my hcg is only now up to 34 sfrom 19.5 s therefore the pregnancy isn't viable and I have to come off my medication!  Surely my hcg is rising so my emby must be still trying??  
I've been told that if I don't have a period in the next 11 days then I have to do a hpt - if that comes up positive then I'll have a scan to check for ectopic, in the meantime if I have any pains I have to go to my nearest A&E.
I'm so confused as on websites dedicated to Beta HCG levels, at 4 weeks any level between 5 and 700 is acceptable, yet here I am at 19 days and being told to come off my medication that might actually support and save my emby!!!  But then I'm sure Bourn Hall knows what they're doing.
Do I continue as though I'm pregnant now i.e. no lifting, no shellfood etc or should I class myself as not pregnant as "my pregnancy isn't viable".
On a final note they said that in 11 days I have to contact the clinic to let them know either way what the result of the hpt was, if I've had a period or if I've had to have emergency treatment ... very reassuring!!
Talk about being left in limbo - I now feel just a number to them and feel as though I'm just being left to myself ... 11 days seems such a long way off!!
K x


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## three_stars (Jan 19, 2006)

Dear Kate,  I really feel your agony.  It is true the number should double every 2-3 days but it is very hard to stop when it is actually increasing.  I believe though ( according to my DR) if you stop the meds at this point it is sure to not make it and you will get your period unless you have an ectopic PG.  This is about 1% of regular BFP and for some reason a little higher in IVF, about 3%.  Maybe the embies get disoriented, who knows?  

I was told to add the Pregnyl injections  ( this is HCG and dose of 1500) every 2 days, re testing just before doing the following injections so it would be least affecting the BetaHCG number from the blood test.  This is the first time I have been told to do this this year and sorry did not think to do it a previous cycle when it started out Day 12 = 15 HCG; I may have been able to save that cycle.  It was just that there were still other factors that seemed to be able to be possibly the culprit.  This time it is with almost certainly that it is the lining.  My DR and I  are both kicking ourselves as I was going to do a repeated look in the uterus with a hysterosonogram  ( hysterosonogram_also known as a sonohysterogram, this diagnostic test is similar to a hysterosalpinogram  and show  if there are polyps, fibroids, etc in the uterine lining.  Should be done just after finish period up to about CD 10 ) But since I had just had a hysterscopy in Nov just showing a little bit of hyperplasia and then a curettage ( D and C) to scrape the lining in Dec, she decided it should not be necessary.  Possibly it seems there are polyps that have grown back??  or scarring.

Any way.  back to the Pregnyl... when I was going through old notes I see that with my first child the clinic here in Paris did give me HCG injections three of them after ET every two days.  Did you ask your clinic about trying this?  I am not sure if it is not too late or if it can even helps w<hen it is so low but I am trying everything.

I was going to wait until Friday to retest ( 4 day intervals) but as it only costs 19 euros here and there is a lab a few blocks away, I went back in today.  Mine is still going up but not doubling.  Went to 75 up from 49.  So I am disheartened but will see on Friday before I give up.  
When I got back the Progesterone it was fine ( = 100) so that was not good.  If it was low it would have signaled a problem there and the augmentation of PIO ( progesterone in Oil) would have helped.  

I know how confused and rotten you must be feeling right now.  I don't know what to say.  

Take care,

Bonnie  x


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## ang1 (Jun 26, 2006)

hi i have to go back for repeat test on tuesday   as my reading was lower than they wanted to see - it was 18.  trying not to hope too much as i dont want to be too upset next week again............

am so fed up of all this now!!


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