# Food refusal



## crazyspaniel (Sep 12, 2012)

Hi,

Has anyone got any experience of this with their LO?!
It's a fairly new thing for us, sometimes it's total refusal sometimes small amounts are eaten. Sweet things are not included at the moment!
I'm determined not to show much response to this and have managed apart from when DD refused to even sit at the table...

I know she won't starve herself but I would like to insist on sitting with us at mealtimes and I'm not sure if I should offer pudding if she refuses the main meal. I know I'm coming at this from my perspective as a birth parent, need advice on how to react as an adoptive parent....!  

Thanks CS


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## Arrows (Nov 9, 2008)

depends on the age of the child but I'm mean and stick to what I say. 
LO is 23mths and if he doesn't eat his dinner he gets no dessert. We often use 'lets count. 1.2.3' or 'do you want dessert? Well then, you need to eat your dinner.' he's given plenty of opportunity but if he refuses I don't make a fuss, just 'okay then, let's clean your face' etc. He then gets nothing else until snack time 2/3hrs later.
We started this at around 18mths when he was old enough to understand and respond to the question asked. Due to his age, I only refuse him food till snack time but as he gets older, it'll be till the next proper meal. We don't have near as many issues now but I must admit that stopping any evening/ night time milk has helped and making sure I give him his meals at least 1/1.5hrs before bedtime as a lot of the problems on an evening are due to him being too tired and grumpy to eat as I've not fed him early enough.
Meals are:
breakfast 6.30-8am (whenever he gets up)
snack 9-10am 
lunch 11.30-12.30pm
snack 3pm-ish
dinner 4.30-5.30pm (earlier is better)
bedtime is 6-7pm normally


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## MummyElf (Apr 11, 2013)

Yes - my LO is 16 months and started this a few weeks ago. It's food she enjoys but it's like a power trip to her. She refuses so I just say 'ok' and turn away. She then eats a bit, always with deep suspicion, and tucks in. After a couple of mouthfuls it's 'NA'(no) again and head shaking. She basically wants to get us to persuade her. I remove the food pushing it away. She screams and gets angry. I say 'what do you say?' She says 'ta' to get it back. I push it back. She shakes her head again. Before long she's eating a bit more before starting the whole charade again. I give her a couple of chances then take it away. I generally make sure she's eaten more than half by whatever means, but if she continues messing about she doesn't get a pudding (yoghurt or purée fruit pot) and I tell her that. She's very bright and really gets it. I know my child and know when she's playing me and for weeks now she's been in a stage of trying to get us to do what she wants - the typical dropping a toy in purpose and screaming for us to get it although she's perfectly capable of getting it herself. I don't coerce or persuade anymore. At 14 months I was choo-chooing and aero planing when she messed about to get her eating but it's a different stage now. Last night she hit me at dinner when I went to help her and screamed at me. I set my limits, explain them carefully and clearly as we go, and see them through. Some 16 month olds might not comprehend it but trust me, she does, and I respond accordingly. I give her the benefit of the doubt as much as I can, but ultimately she needs to realise she isn't the one running the show.


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## Loopylou29 (Mar 4, 2013)

I have no experience of food refusal sorry but wanted to say, mummyelf it sounds like she is regressing a little bit which wouldn't be unusually given the big change in her life at the moment. 
Our eldest who is in pre school has started asking to be fed/carried upstairs etc. We've not long had a sibling placed and this us yhe only we can put it down to. We've gone down the route of saying things like 'we can feed/carry etc like we do with xxx who is a baby'. Funnily enough the regression is reducing but that tactic may not be as eady with a 16 month old.


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## GERTIE179 (Apr 20, 2005)

Hi CS,

If I recall your LO has been home a few months? Food can be a control thing for LOs as you can't force them but your right they won't really starve.

My lil guy has always been a great eater but we did to through a phase if this about 3 months after coming home (and does on the odd day too). I leave it with him and don't fuss too much about it. If he's not ate it or went back to it within 15 mins then I remove. Similar I don't offer an alternative unless the dinner has been something I'm not sure he will eat.

I agree with Arrows and he catches up at next snack/feed. 
But if that has been dinner then I tend to do is finish up and clear everything away but don't let LO go to bed hungry so toast or weetabix given before bed. 

It was important for our lil one to know he wouldn't be starved and we also have sleep issues so I don't want hunger to be a reason to break our good run if sleeping through as that starts a much more viscous circle.  
HTH


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## crazyspaniel (Sep 12, 2012)

Thanks Arrows and mummy elf,

Dd is almost 3 and loves her food. This def a control issue, one in a long line of behaviours she uses to try and control me...
So I don't try to persuade her to eat, this wouldn't work anyway, I just take it away. If it were DS at similar age I would have done like you Arrows and left him til next feeding time! The more I engage with her the louder the 'no' gets!
I'm just conscious of her attachment problems and making things worse  
Am hoping a few more days and she'll give up and just eat?!


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## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

We get this sometimes with Wyxling, who's also very control orientated.

I find that if I don't get phased by it, it never lasts more than a few days.

If she won't eat something, I don't take it away straight away, I tell her it's OK not to be hungry, but let's sit here until everyone else is finished.  If she pushes the bowl away that's fine, I just leave it in arm's reach.  I then carry on eating and change the subject, chatter to her about what's going outside.  I find if I keep the tone light and don't treat it like she's doing something wrong, then no matter how determined she is for an argument it just fizzles out, sometimes via a bit of a tantrum, and often once she realising I'm not going to play the game she wants, she'll start to eat.  I keep lots of contact and lots of stroking, joking about things like the cat pouncing in the garden.  If she doesn't eat her dinner she doesn't get pudding, but I don't make a threat or ultimatum out of it - that simply doesn't work with children who have control issues.  I just don't clear away her dinner when I clear away the rest and bring pudding, and if she says she wants it I'll just say, oh, that's fine, I see she's found her appetite, Mummy will get one as soon as she's finished her dinner off.  The key really is to just not taking it seriously.  I only offer 3 meals two snacks a day, and I don't top up on other things if either of them don't eat.

In general with very controlling behaviour we were advised initially to offer lots of choice, which seems to be the standard advice, and I never found it helped.  More recently we were advised that actually with very young children who are insecure, removing choice is the best idea.  I'm Mummy, and I make the choices for her.  She doesn't get a choice of x or y for dinner, she gets given x, because Mummy knows she likes it.  I was told that over time this can become very reassuring and help children to trust adults to make their choices for them, rather than feeling they have to control everything themselves.  I have found this has worked well for us.

All the best,

Wyxie xx


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## crazyspaniel (Sep 12, 2012)

Thanks Wyxie!

All very helpful advice  
I know it's a game to draw me into an argument ...
Just wish there was a book of 'rules' for these games  

If she refuses to sit at the table I will just ignore her, chat to ds and duck the flying objects that will undoubtably come my way  

Xx


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## AoC (Oct 28, 2008)

Thanks for the good advice in this thread, was reading avidly.


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## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

It really does sound like you're all having a hard time at the moment.  I understand what you mean about it being a game; I often feel like Wyxling's favourite game is wind Mummy up.  I don't think we need to know the rules to the game, the only thing we and they need to know, is that Mummy is not playing that game, no matter how much Mummy is provoked!

I would be very wary of ignoring her at the moment, given her obvious insecurities.  Children with attachment issues can often see ignoring them as abandonment.  We tend to ignore behaviour, but still talk to Wyxling about other things.  So if hubby and I are talking and Wyxling is really "in one" we'll include Wyxling in the conversation, or just find some positive comments to make whether it's about what she's wearing, her smile, something we did earlier that she was very good at, but completely ignore any behaviour, other than to move her away from anything dangerous, and move things out the way that she might damage, but without any comment about what she's doing other than a soft reminder to be gentle if she's not being with her brother/me.

All the best, I hope you manage to find something that works and that you all start having an easier time soon.

Wyxie xx


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## crazyspaniel (Sep 12, 2012)

I'm working on the not playing that game thing and I think I may be getting the hang of it.....  
After eating nothing since a very small lunch yesterday she was famished, tucked into her spaghetti hoops then asked for more.....
Big mistake mummy, gave her some more and she immediately launched into the 'no' game, ok maybe I need more practice!


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## Daddyboo (Paul) (Dec 24, 2012)

Wyxie said:


> We get this sometimes with Wyxling, who's also very control orientated.
> 
> I find that if I don't get phased by it, it never lasts more than a few days.
> 
> ...


I think Wyxie, that is some of the best advise I've read in a long time, and exactly how we hope to tackle food time.

Thanks x


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## MummyAuntieKatie (Oct 18, 2012)

Luckily BB is pretty good at eating but he does try and play the games.  I walk away (we don't all eat together as it makes him worse if he has an audience) and get on with things it the kitchen, that usually prompts him to get on with the eating part.  If he has a good go at his food but won't finish it he still gets fruit or yoghurt but if he plays up and doesn't eat he gets nothing until his next meal or snack..  I never make a big deal out of it.  Unfortunately DH gets drawn into the power games so it's as well that I'm the one who usually does meal times! 

We also do very few choices, I just tell BB what's for lunch or dinner although at breakfast he can choose between cereal or toast and he can sometimes choose his fruit, although I am now finding he'll choose, then keep changing his mind and tantrum if I give him a banana when he then decides he really wanted an apple   so choices are becoming fewer!  If I give him something new and he obviously doesn't like it then I might relent and give him something else but in the past 4 months I can count the number of times I've cooked him something different on one hand.

I really don't think food is something to get stressed about, I've seen friends and family cause problems later on by being too controlling or strict over food and I don't think it's healthy.  I've said before that all foods are fair game in our house, in moderation, so he can have fruit, yog, chocolate, biscuits, etc etc every day, just a little of each rather than too much of one thing.  xx


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## Poppets Mammy (Mar 7, 2011)

> In general with very controlling behaviour we were advised initially to offer lots of choice, which seems to be the standard advice, and I never found it helped. More recently we were advised that actually with very young children who are insecure, removing choice is the best idea. I'm Mummy, and I make the choices for her. She doesn't get a choice of x or y for dinner, she gets given x, because Mummy knows she likes it. I was told that over time this can become very reassuring and help children to trust adults to make their choices for them, rather than feeling they have to control everything themselves. I have found this has worked well for us.


I like this, totally makes sense. Although we thankfully don't have control issues with food other than the fact Poppet can try to be greedy and we have to judge whether she's genuinely hungry or whether she's trying to scoff for some reason  which is no easy task with a growing little one. She can however try to be controlling in other areas. She also loves to play 'let's wind Mammy up' and although on the whole I've figured that out and have learnt how to not bite and distract her with other things there's some days I get sucked into her games and then the rest of the day can be awful for both of us, thankfully that's rare but I can sympathise with people who are also battling with controlling and game playing little ones. 
Xx


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## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

I would also add that Wyxling often wants to be babied recently, and I think for adopted kids that's a really positive thing. The addition of a sibling can really trigger this, although so can Theraplay, and I think that's a large part of it with Wyxling. Filling in those early gaps that were missed is wonderful if our kids will let us. I have absolutely no problem with feeding, dressing, carrying her like I do with Bladelet, even though on a purely physical level it is incredibly hard work! I have also found that by embracing this, rather than treating it like an inconvenience, it's stopped being a control thing. At first it was a very genuine thing, then it became controlling at times, but I just pretended it wasn't, and pretended it wasn't inconvenient, and now she's seen it doesn't bother me she rarely does it to control. The opportunity to really baby a child when you missed that stage of their development, and when it is likely that their needs weren't fully met as a baby, is something that is really wonderful.

Poppets Mammy, did Poppet have time with birth family? If so, and feeding was irregular, this may well be why she's very "greedy" with food. We also had a lot of issues like that with Wyxling early in placement, which is one of the reasons why in some ways I find it reassuring when she feels able to play control games with food rather than trying to eat everything in sight. We know that while enough food has always been available overall, there will have been times when she was hungry, and this can have a big impact even if it's just as a young baby and they don't know why, which was something we really didn't know or expect. We have just been very regimented about meal times and amounts - I decide how much she needs to eat, there are very rarely seconds unless it's a special occasion and we have family here and a more "help yourself" set up when I'll let her indulge, largely to see how far she will go if I'm honest. Wyxling has made huge progress in this area, to the point where she actually shares her sweet rewards with Bladelet (who is just _fine_ with half a soggy jelly bean, however unappealing it might sound to the rest of us!)

Hope everyone is well.

Wyxie xx


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## Poppets Mammy (Mar 7, 2011)

Wyxie - She was only with birth parents for 2 months however they were likely a very hungry 2months   so Yes she prob has a bit of a greed issue due to that. There's also food related issues caused by contact when with FC,  she has 3 older siblings, one being a sister who is a big over eater and is slightly over weight due to it (she will of suffered more during her time with birth parents) and birth mam was observed encouraging junk food to all the children to 'keep them quiet' during contact sessions  So for poppet contact was a very confusing and upsetting experience in general as sadly she doesn't really have a good relationship with birth mam or her siblings and during these contact sessions she was provided with endless crisps and chocolate etc. so seems to have learnt how to comfort eat. She has a very unhealthy relationship with crisps in particular. We have quite a lot of photos of contact sessions from her being a baby to 2+ and from an age of where she was able to eat crisps every single photo of her and her siblings at contact they all have a bag of crisps in their hands   - I kid you not! It's sickening, obviously birth Mams way of compensating in some way but how SS could be aware of it and allow it to continue is beyond me   especially seeing her older sister had known food/weight issues. Thankfully Poppet is a great eater, she will try literally anything and has a well balanced diet with us. The majority of the time when she asks for food it's normally fruit she wants and it's most likely a genuine request but there's also a greed aspect at times which is more obvious when she's upset or anxious about something (comfort eating). On the other hand she can become controlling in a refusing to eat way if she is uncomfortable about a situation ie: eating at someone else's house. They are complicated little things aren't they. So sad how their early experiences can subconsciously affect their behaviour isn't it. But it's wonderful they all now have such loving and caring parents who recognise these behaviours and needs and address them appropriately   x


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## snapdragon (Jun 27, 2011)

My lo was with fc from 2 months but has huge food issues. Our first few months were tough and things are much better now but issues remain. Our local toddler gps have even made changes due to him. He is well known for asking for cake from the moment he arrives. Lo's bm had gestational diabetes where he was over fed, delivered early due to his size. They had trouble feeding him resulting in weight loss( he also suffered injuries to his face including his  tongue). Its amazing (not in a good way) the effects the very early months can make.

Our issues are different to yours so I don't think I can be much help but I do emphasise.


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## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

It's just so incredibly sad when you realise how much the brief early time when our babies weren't cared for properly continues to effect them.  Poor little Poppet, no wonder she will grab what she can.

Wyxling's feeding could be very irregular when she was with b/m.  The crisps thing is ridiculous, but Wyxling was weaned on cheesy puffs, it was all she ate at 7 months old.  In foster care the food was plentiful, actually too much so.  The foster carer clearly didn't realise what a big problem Wyxling already had with food, and fed her and fed her and fed her.  They used to have snacks out on a table to share with foster siblings who were older and bigger and she got used to grabbing as much as she could as quickly as she could.  We were both horrified during intros when we saw how much she was eating - more that most adults would in a day.  By the time she came to us at 19 months she was definitely overweight.  One of the first things the HV asked about was her diet.  We had to gradually manage it down so it wasn't a big shock to her system so we basically had to keep her weight stable and over the space of 18 months or so her heigh has caught up with it, and she's really healthy now.  She really would eat anything any everything for a long time, so in some ways I find it reassuring that she now feels able to play control games with food, even though it's a right pain in the bum!


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