# How many to put back? Could 3 result in triplets - chances?



## dollytot (Apr 1, 2012)

Hi!
I've had one failed fresh cycle and am going on to my first FET now, and in the last 2 weeks the clinic seem to have changed the number of embryos put back from 2, to 3!  I had just got used to the thought we may have a possibility of twins, but triplets?? They said they need to increase the stats on FET and that it is very unlikely to result in a multiple pregnancy.  I'm 32, we have male factor infertility.

I was wondering what others thought?  Or, how many did people have put back?  Has anyone ended up with twins or triplets from this (it would be great to hear from you)

Thanks,

Dolly


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## dollytot (Apr 1, 2012)

By the way - my frosties are 5 day blasts if that makes any difference?  We have 5 left.
Dolly


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## goldbunny (Mar 26, 2012)

how many are they planning to defrost? x


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## dollytot (Apr 1, 2012)

HI Goldbunny!

They are going to thaw 3, then if they dont all thaw, thaw the last 2... its the new protocol they are doing for all FET's apparently.  Have searched threads for people who have had 3 put back but cant find much...

Dolly


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## goldbunny (Mar 26, 2012)

well look at it this way, if they thaw three, either all three will make it or they won't. If only one or two make it, you don't have the question to answer. if all three make it, which would you rather, put three back, or discard one? how would you feel about the discarded one, if you get a BFN from the two you put back? when i got a BFN, i kept thinking maybe it would have worked if we'd used the other two embies... but we'll never know because they were just discarded...there's not a massive chance of triplets but at least all three embies would be given a chance. and some of the people that do get triplets would have started with only two embies anyway. i think you can only trust the embryologist on the day, they are trying to give you the best chance. There won't definitely be three to put back anyway so best not to worry about it... xx


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## barbster (Jan 26, 2012)

Hi Dollytot,

I'm pretty sure that HFEA regulations state that ladies under 40 can only have 2 embryos transferred due to the higher chance of success and multiple pregnancy. Although I know that clinics abroad do transfer more than this at times, is your treatment in the UK?

Also, you say that they need to increase their FET stats? Would that be ethical to use a young patient who potentially could have all 3 implant just to make their stats better? If this resulted in a triple pregnancy, whilst you are young, there are still health implications to consider.

Don't want to sound negative, it's something to think about. I do hope that you have a successful treatment this time around.

Barbs x


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

I really would not ever transfer more than 2 blasts at your age.  There is a high chance of twins from 2 and that is dangerous enough.  Triplets really is inadvisable for all the obvious health reasons (your and the babies).

I transferred 2 DAY 3 donor embryos had had twins, so this just shows you the chances.

Best 
Daisy


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## staceysm (Nov 18, 2010)

Hi Dolly,

I have to agree with Barbs comments.  Alarm bells do ring for me also.

You are right to be concerned.  Being pregnant with triplets is no walk in the park and I think that my clinic only give a 25% chance of a live birth from triplets.

I had 3 x 3 day embryo's frozen, but they were grades B and C.  I had all 3 defrosted and the best 2 put back.  It sadly ended in a miscarriage of a singleton, but I am 100% happy with the decision I made.

I only know of one women who had triplets from 3 frozen embryo's, so it is quite rare.

All I will say, is that you are the patient and you should make the decisions.  You should not be used as a guinea pig to improve there statistic's.

I wish you all the best.

Stacey 
X


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## dollytot (Apr 1, 2012)

Ah, thanks for all your comments.  The thing they mentioned was that as it is a frozen cycle, chances of having a live birth are halved anyway, so by putting 3 back, it does not even reach the same odds as having a life birth from 1 blastocyst on a fresh cycle...
What are your thoughts?

Dolly x


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

As I said before, I had 2 day 3 frozen embryos transferred and got twins.

If they are frozen blasts, the normal procedure is to only replace two max. because of risk of multiples.

I wouldn't risk it. 

Also, if there is any problem with you systemically, then you need to fix this before contemplating transfer.


D xxx


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## dollytot (Apr 1, 2012)

Called clinic to talk through my worries and the stats they have are: 2 embryos = 9% multiple births, and they predict 3 embryos would result in 15% multiple births.

Dolly


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## donjee (Aug 4, 2011)

Just thought I would add my ten pence worth.  My friend had triplets after IVF and it put her under immense stress and the babies too. She actually did deliver three babies too (only two embryos transfered mind!) and despite not wanting to change any of it for the world now that she has her family complete, I think even she would agree that she had a horrendous pregnancy, a horrendous birth and now a horrendous worry about their health, her money and her relationship. I think the whole thing, from conception to now has been a major rollercoaster!!

I agree with the others - we all want to maximise our chances (I'm as guilty as the next person) but having three transfered, even if odds are low, they are real risks and I don't think I would be happy with these under my circumstances. However, I do see the flip side of the coin. I have 13 embryos in the freezer so hopefully plenty of goes if this time doesnt work out. You may not be in that position and so only you can look at all the facts, risks and make the decision that you feel is right for you. Ultimately, only you can make the decision.

Good luck with all - 
love Donjee xx


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## Lisajane73 (Jul 4, 2009)

Dolly

I really think it is risky with these embies being at the blastocyst stage as there is a much higher chance of them sticking. I am currently on my 2nd FET this year, but have only transferred one each time - my clinic's opinion (and their FET stats are as high as natural) is that with blasts you are not really significantly increasing your chances of pregnancy by transferring 2, but you are increasing your chances of a multiple birth - which obviously is risky enough with twins, but triplets even more so...

Although FET no1 didn't work first time for us, I am still glad we only transferred the one. I am pretty sure it has worked this time and yes, although it cost more money, I would still prefer to have a singleton. With 5 in the freezer yourself, and with age on your side (more so than me!) you have plenty of time - ultimately it is your decision but you need to consider the fact that a multiple pregnancy doesn't necessarily equal multiple birth. You need to consider not only your own health, but the risks to the embryos/babies.

It seems to me that your clinic are more interested in boosting their figures than the welfare of their patients. I know you say you have discussed this with them today, but stats are just stats at the end of the day and anything can happen.

I think 2 would be a sensible number as if you say there are no known issues with you, then you could potenetially end up putting yourself at unneccesary risk, however the decision is _yours_ to make, and not the clinic.


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## mierran (Apr 24, 2009)

Hi.
Can I ask how they are frozen? Is it with vitrification or the older slow freeze method? I think the chances are lower with the older method due to more cell damage esp with blasts. There is however still a chance of triplets with the higher risks to both yourself and them. I think you need to consider how you would feel if it was and you had problems - and how you would feel if you had 2 transferred and it didn't work. 
I had 3 day 3 embryos transfered in my fresh cycle and have beautiful twins who i adore. But it is hard work sometimes tho i wouldn't change it for the world. And I'm lucky - mine have no problems.
I would consider having 3 embryos replaced again but it would depend on how well they survived the thaw.
Good luck making your decision.


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Mierran,

With respect, you had 3 DAY 3 frozen embryos replaced not blasts which does alter the stats and is not a like-for-like comparison.  As you had twins from day 3s, it does illustrate why 3 blasts would be even more ill advised!

I had 2 DAY 3 frozen embies and had twins - and as Mierran said, even twins are not always the ideal outcome for health of babies and mum... (don't get me wrong, I am delighted with my two, but my daughter had major birth defects from being squashed in the womb by her twin).

Again, transferring 3 blasts is highly irresponsible for any clinic.  

Chances are though that this discussion is moot as you may not actually thaw 3 blasts...

D x


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## R-Mart81 (Nov 13, 2011)

I am also doing a FET with 3 embryos. I am not sure how to figure out how old they are because my ER was on a Wednesday and they were not frozen until Monday. I'm also not sure how soon before ET that they thaw them. I am doing three embryos because we have been trying for over 5 years to get pregnant and this year alone we have had 4 rounds of clomid and other medications, 1 IUI that resulted in pregnancy but I lost that baby, and 1 failed IVF. We have 16 embryos however I am currently living in South Korea and we are due to fly home two weeks from now with no real chance of returning. My doctor is going to try to transfer the remaining embryos back to the States, but there is a strong possibility they will not survive that long of a trip. So we are using 3 for this cycle. I know the risks of triplets is much higher, but I am willing to take that risk. This may be our last chance of trying to have another child. We can not afford the IVF in the US and so my doctor and I decided that the risk of multiples was less than the possibility of not getting pregnant. You have to do what is right for you and your family.


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

the other thing to consider is with a multiple pregnancy (regardless of the maternal risk and risk to the babies) is that your uterus may not be able to sustain that I was told that I would have a higher chance of miscarriage with a multiple pregnancy and could end up with no babies so always opt for 2.

Good luck


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## R-Mart81 (Nov 13, 2011)

I would not say ALWAYS opt for 2. I would say discus everything with your doctor and make the best decision for you.


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## BettyBoo1 (Jan 22, 2012)

One thing also to consider is that an embies can split so could end up with even more - I have one put back in and conceived identical twins.  I know that there is someone on FF who had two put back in and ended up with triplets.  I know that the probabilities are low, but it is a risk that you need to be prepared to take.

I am having FET next month, we have 4 frozen, but will only have one put back in like last time.  I know that I am lucky though as I have some time on my side and considering my health, the health of any babies and my DH wishes.

Good luck with whatever you decide!


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## nvb (May 31, 2008)

I know of one lady on another Babyboard I post on that had 3 frozen day 3 embryos put back and had triplets so it can happen..... Someone has to be in that 15% your clinic quoted! She was also 40 which is possibly why her consultant thought it was 'safe' to put the 3 embryos back. She had also had a singleton pregnancy from her fresh cycle that had resulted in the 3 frosties so it seemed that the chances of getting trips was miniscule....


I struggle to comprehend that just because your clinic needs to up their FET stats, that they can change the rules. I can't see the **** agreeing to it and would certainly question the clinics ethics. I wonder how many women have got a BFP with triplets so the clinic get the clinical pregnancy stat, but then who have lost them early so not managed to get to the live birth. 


At your age, i would think seriously about only having 2 embryos back but I understand that it is ultimately your choice xxx


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## dollytot (Apr 1, 2012)

Thanks for all your advice!  I guess the sad thing that makes this all even more difficult is as we cannot all get free IVF (though we should!!!) decisions are sometimes not what you would otherwise choose.  I would opt for one, if I had endless tries with IVF.  However, if I have to continue doing this with no funding, we'd run out of tries very quick, and potential end up with no babies, I guess thats why I even considered the three.  If I already had one child, maybe I would think differently, I'm just so scared of never having any so maybe I'm not as rational as I should be :S 

I agree I think 2 is sensible.  Its just niggling at the back of my mind!  Its a very helpful thread, thanks 

Dolly xxxx


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## beachbaby (Jan 31, 2008)

Hi, I agree with the others that your clinic is being a bit silly.
everyone is different and react differently to different protocol,i know you are paying out of pocket,as do a lot of us. but i personally would err on the side of caution as you do not know how well your body will fare on an FET, i failed on my fresh cycle but got pregnant on all 3 of my FET's. 2 failed due to an onknown genetic disorder but i got twins from 2x 2 day old embryo's, both 4 cell so nothing special.
als as the others have said the trauma on your body is huge, i had a catastophic bleed post c-section and ended up with a hysterectomy, i know of 1 other lady on this forum this happened to after twins.

good luck and i hope you get your dream.


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## R-Mart81 (Nov 13, 2011)

We put back three HATCHED embryos and I couldn't be more happy about our decision. Knowing that our odds of getting pregnant with even one are so much better than they have been. I don't mind if we have more. I know the risks and I know our doctor can help us through this.


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## Michelle71 (Dec 18, 2008)

I had 3 blastocysts transferred and had a single pregnancy. However, they were not top quality and my lining was thin at 6.1mm.
Hope that helps with your decision.


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## MandyPandy (May 10, 2010)

I had 3 perfect fresh blasts transferred on my last cycle and I still got a BFN and the cycle before that I had 2 fresh mid range blasts transferred and got pg with a singleton (early m/c though).

Personally, if I could have 3 put back on an FET then I would - but then I have a lot of other issues to consider too (immunes, etc).  If I had 3 thawed that looked good, I'd have them all transferred rather than throw one away.

In all honesty, it's a tough call and the decision really is personal - other people can only tell you of their experiences but ultimately the decision lies with you.


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## Jasmine79 (Mar 16, 2011)

Hello everyone, sorry im jumping on the band wagon, for me i dont think I have much options, my FET will be self funded as was my IVF, and my embies are in another country and arent of a good quality. I have four in total and will transfer all that survive the thaw.


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## R-Mart81 (Nov 13, 2011)

I went in for an early beta test at only 6 days past a 5 day frozen embryo transfer and my beta level is 35!! PREGNANT!! But I am nervous that it is such a low number. Does anyone know if 35 is a good level for this early. We move back to the US today and I need to find a doctor before getting a second blood test. Hopefully soon but probably not 48 hours like normal.


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## Michelle71 (Dec 18, 2008)

Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!! That number sounds about right to me for a very early result. Good luck with your move back to the US and enjoy your new pregnancy


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## Quadzilla (Aug 23, 2008)

I know it isn't quite comparable but we put back 3 fresh embies at day 3, the result was quadruplets. We are lucky enough to be in the position of deciding whether to return a again for another chance as we  too have 5 frozen embies.


I'm wondering if we could defrost 2 and then 2 and then one and have subsequent tries if unsuccessful the first time. Because one split we are cautious to put back two in case we had another split and triplets. The prospect of twins in comparison with the feelings associated with it not working at all does not bother us as much. . 


Our reasoning for putting back 3 was that the chance of triplets at our clinic was very low. We were quoted 0.4%. This statistic blinded us and far outweighed the prospect of coming away with no baby and having to endure more IVF trauma. A bit like what you are saying although your chances statistically are less than a fresh cycle with a frozen one. You may want to consider that statistics are just numbers really and don't account for individual cases where a perfect cycle of IVF occurs whereby stimming is good, egg quality, fertilization and embie development is perfect. This could be your case and so up the statistics if they were not skewed by the results from far less perfect cycles. 

It is rare for embies to split but can happen so if you are contemplating triplets then maybe you need to factor in quads to your consideration. Quad pregnancies are very risky for obvious reasons and riskier than triplets. 


If you were to put back two blastocysts have you considered if your clinic would carry out assisted hatching to increase your chances with 2?  


I know you say about repeat cycles being more costly if you are able to use your frozen embies 2 by 2  and then 1. However, what if of these treatments resulted in one or two babies it may be a while before you had to think or raise monies to go back again. You are young and have time on your side Childcare for twins/singletons is a lot cheaper for triplets/quads and you could potentially work to save again for more treatment, if that is what you wanted.


Looking back if I'd been in a more rational state of mind I would have gone to day 5 and used assisted hatching with 2 blasts. The pregnancy was not nice and very scary. It is your life and ultimately your choice but if your instinct tells you 3 is an uncomfortable number for YOU then listen to it. I am aware that this is easy to say but hard to do when faced with the roller coaster emotions and choices that infertility involves.


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## Quadzilla (Aug 23, 2008)

Dollytot just found this on another thread it may be useful to you.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2168710/Women-having-fertility-treatment-better-using-frozen-embryo-fresh.html

/links


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