# maybe useful warning! please read!



## aleta

Dear all,

as most or all of us are interested in surrogacy, some of you'll decide to go abroad and try for the surrogacy in Ukraine.
This is what appeared some time ago on the site of La vita felice surrogate agency from Kharkow, about the other agency from Kiev:
http://mother-surrogate.com/en/?p=surrogatnoematerinstvo_bevare
I am trying to undestand is this warning true or is it only a competition between 2 agencies trying to get as many patients for themselves?
What do you think? (NatGamble, or anyone else, please share your thoughts..) 

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## bobbyandnikki

Why go through an agency and pay the extra when the clinic has its own surrogates and egg donors

Message Yes we thoroughly recommend treatment in India. we did surrogacy there 10 times! So from this experience we can safely say to others that you're wasting your time hanging about in the west!
There's a lot of info and detail that you can get off of on www.oneinsix.com or do a search for Bobby and Nikki on the web.
oh and if you are white and still need an egg donor, relax, most couples who do surrogacy in India are white and most couples who need donor eggs are white too and happy to use Indian donor eggs. Your names will be on the birth certificate irrespective of whose eggs or sperm was used.
Your baby days will soon be upon you if you can shake off wrongly negative perceptions by those losing business to overseas clinics.
Be brave and follow our lead.

pm me for more info

We have a baby daughter after 14 years

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## OD2

Hi Aleta,

I don't have experience of overseas surrogacy as I chose to go down the UK route - I have a baby girl of 20 months and another baby due in October by the same surrogate.

I chose the UK for several reasons:
1) Most importantly, I wanted to have a relationship with the woman carrying my baby - and her family.  I trust our surrogate implicitly and never had the slightest worry that she was taking care of our baby properly, or that she would keep her after she was born.  I was also able to be fully involved with the pregnancy (attending midwife appointments and scans) which enabled me to bond with the baby ahead of time - I was worried that otherwise I'd feel as if the baby arrives out of the blue.  Surrogacy is stressful enough, but without that foundation of a very strong friendship, I think I would have been a gibbering wreck!!  Another lovely part of having a strong friendship with our surrogate and her family is my kids' relationship with them all - we spent the weekend together by the seaside this weekend just gone and the children were running around as a little tribe of cousins having a ball, while we watched on as the proud parents.  I know our surrogate and her husband feel proud of Hannah, and of their role in bringing her into the world, but their relationship isn't in the slightest bit like that of parents - they are aunty and uncle and we're all very pleased with that.
2) I want my babies to understand their origins - I take Hannah to conferences and social events organised by Surrogacy UK on a regular basis so she, and her sibling in due course, will understand where she comes from and that there are lots of other children out there with the same background.  I hope never to have to pluck up courage to "tell her about surrogacy" because she will just absorb it over time and it won't be a big deal.  This is another advantage of us staying friends with our surrogate and her family because she will always understand her relationship with them. 
3) There are legal and financial complexities in going overseas which I wanted to avoid if possible.  The UK looked like a slower process on paper, because you can't guarantee getting matched with a surrogate immediately, but I wanted to avoid hte risk of getting tied up in confusing paperwork around who the parents are and what nationality the child is.  I also had the impression that it would be more expensive to go overseas, but I could be wrong as the prices in clinics in India and elsewhere seem to be increasingly competitive. 
4) Last but not least, I remain a little concerned about the ethics of surrogacy in developing countries.  I don't for a moment judge anyone else who has gone down this route - it's just a personal sense of discomfort which I couldn't get over. 

So that's a long way of saying, with lots of respect to Bobby and Nikki, that I don't think that you would be wasting your time haning about in the west.  It's a personal choice and I wish you every success whichever way you go.


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## Grumpygirl

Hi Aleta,
I can't comment on surrogacy in the Ukraine and wish you well. All I know of it is that there was quite a high profile case of a surrogacy going wrong out there, but Natalie Gamble could no doubt advise you much better than me. I believe all worked out in the end but was expensive and v.traumatic. That said, I am possibly very behind the times and things may have moved on since then. I wish you loads of luck whatever you decide.

Bobby and Nikky, congratulations on your baby daughter. You have had a long wait for her. I am afraid I am with OD2 in that we personally prefer the UK approach and find great comfort in the fact that our little girl will know her roots, her surrogate mother, her surro family and also other surrogate babies through the support or Surrogacy UK. I realise the wait to find a surrogate can be a long one and it is frustrating to be waiting, but I had a read around on your website and have to be honest, was concerned. You speak of surrogates living in hostels- do they not live with their family throughout the pregnancy? Also, your clinic transfer a minimum of 4 embryos to guarantee a pregnancy- are there many mulitple births then? Obviously there are far greater risks for the surrogate in that case. It would concern me that personally that I might be exploiting a surrogate since the website mentions payment but no mention of what the surrogate is paid personally, only that you wish to find more women willing to take it up as a 'career'. I think the UK and the laws that govern/protect us here are solid ones and while they could possibly do with some updating (mat.leave for one) they do make sure surrogacy is done for altrusitic reasons and not for commercial reasons. I guess the commercial side of things is why some people are heading for India and it is a whole new debate but surrogacy for profit is not for me. Sorry if that offends anyone. I, like OD2 am not judging anyone else for doing it, it is just wholeheartedly not for me.

OD2, so pleased for you about baby number 2. Please give your little Hannah a big kiss from Zoe. xx

Giggly
xx


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## aleta

Dear all,

thank you for your comments, but since we are not UK residents, it's impossible for us to go for the surrogacy in UK. Though, if we were UK residents, I guess the facts that OD2 mentioned would be very important (bonding wit surrogate mother and her family etc).
Regarding India.. well, I guess it wouldn't be an option for us, because it is a bit far from us, and the costs are about the same..
And, actually, thank you very much for your comment Bobby and Nikki, but when I read your web site - wow, it was quite a difficult yourney for two of you. 10 times trying for surrogacy abroad? I don't think we could do that, due to finance reasons mainly.
nevertheless thank you all for your comments, and enjoy your surrobabies..
xoxo
Aleta.


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## nevergiveup1

International Surrogacy is not difficult!!!!!!

It has bad press!!

make sure of 3 things when looking into it:-
1. You need to make sure you follow all uk surrogacy laws no matter what country you are in as you have to be able to apply for a parental order when you return to the UK.
((NO COMMERCIAL ELEMENT))

2. The child must be genetically related to one of you

3. you need to plan to be back in the UK before 6 month to apply for a parental order, as this is what immigration requires, so you cannot break any laws or you will not be able to apply for a parental order and wont get permission to bring the child back into the UK!!!!!

4. When making your plans, look into how long it takes for the surrogate and her husband if she is married to give up her/ their parental rights. As this needs to happen before you apply to bring the child back to the UK and you have to allow plenty of time to arrive back in the UK before the 6 month deadline and apply for a parental order.

In the Ukraine case that is always mentioned please note: The parents paid a commercial element!!!!! therefore the parents would not be able to apply for a parental order in the UK and for this reason they could not bring the children back to the UK and it ended up being so costly.

THEY BROKE THE UK LAW and had to get special permission to come back to the uk outside of the surrogacy guidelines for bringing a baby into the UK to apply for a parental order. because the paid a commercial element, immigration could not let them come into the uk to apply for a parental order as they would not get one because they PAID A COMMERCIAL ELEMENT!!

If they did surrogacy in the Uk and they paid a commercial element, they would also have BROKEN THE LAW on surrogacy and i am sure it would have also been very expensive to get the courts to authorise that they paid a commercial element. it is not where they did the surrogacy. it is simply that as uk residents we fall under UK law when doing surrogacy anywhere in the world.

Yes the children were stateless but this is NOT the problem, if you read the home office website, provided that the surro mother and her husband has given up their rights in their country. This could be adoption or a court order then you can apply to come back to the UK to apply for a parental order and must show that you can qualify for a parental order. THEREFORE you must follow the UK laws when making surrogacy arrangements. Again NO COMMERCIAL element, only expenses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The child MUST be genetically related to one of the IP and you will need to prove this with a DNA test from an accredited agency on the home office website.

Then you can apply to bring the child to the UK for special permission to obtain a parental order. You must do it within good time as it must not exceed the six month mark. The home office website advises that you contact the relevent embassy ahead of time to make arrangements to make sure that you meet the deadline. Call the embassy before you do the surrogacy and check that you meet all the requirements before you start the surrogacy and again before you go there.

The unless the surrogate is single, the child will not be regarded as british and if the birth parents have given up there parental rights then the child will be stateless in most cases. Follow the UK surrogacy laws and then follow the guidelines on the home office website to bring the child back to the UK to apply for a parental order, Must be within the six month deadline.

After the parental order is done, then the child will be british. ((If the surro was single then the IP can sometimes go on birthcert and baby can sometimes get a british passport straight away))

One of the key elements is timing, how long does the process take for the surro to give up parental rights? How long does it take for the country to issue a unabridged birth cert? What travel papers are needed and how long do they take? How long will the embassy take to issue the visa? And you still need to satisfy the embassy that you have followed all uk laws and can apply for a parental order and will then get back into the UK before the six month deadline. These are the logistics to look at.

I am in the uk and my surrogate is in South Africa and we have bonded and I think will be friends for life! We send emails all the time, I flew to SA for 2 months and attended appointments with her. We talk on the phone all the time, send texts and emails. When she went for her 6 week scan, she put the phone to the monitor so I could hear the heartbeat!

The process was much more simple than in the UK and I would never change a thing. 

Yes the legal situation appears more difficult and in most circumstances if you are going abroad get a single surrogate and you will be fine, it is sooo much easier. ((Mine is married)) As you can see I have done a LOT of research and followed all the rules.

I am lucky as I am habitually resident in south africa as I spend a lot of time there and am south african and british, therefore I am adopting there and for this reason do not need to do an intercountry adoption, so I wont need to do a parental order at all and the UK will recognise the adoption if I can prove I am habitually resident and that the country is a designated country as south africa is.

I do not think I could bond anymore if my surrogate was here in Britain! My surrogate is very special, and I have a wonderful friend for life.

Good luck to everyone on their surrogacy journey!! it is a wonderful journey!! I have loved every minute!!


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## nevergiveup1

I just wanted to add, I trust my surrogate implicitly too, I love the whole family, they are wonderful and her DH is a diamond!! My surrogate had a previous surrogate baby boy and the references i got from the lawyer, psycologist, my IVF doctor who she has worked very closely with for years. The previous IP, all gave her wonderful references.

I 100% trust her to look after my baby! I dont feel like I would trust her anymore if she was in the UK. even though I am in the Uk and she in south africa, I feel very very involved in the pregnancy and certainly do not feel the baby is going to arrive out of the blue.

The foundation of a strong friendship is there for life and I have not found this surrogacy stressfull at all, I expected it to be a lot more stressfull. I certainly would have a problem if I felt there were any ethics being questioned but do not see any difference with my surrogate that would have been more ethical here although I see the point but do feel that an IP can look at this when making their own arrangements. Certainly out there in the world there are people with questionable ethics in all areas of life and if a person making the decidion sees questionable ethis you would hope they would move on until they found a perfect place iwth excellent ethics, even in the UK there are people with questionable ethics.
And this can be seen in the case of the surro who kept the baby and was proven in court that she never had any intention of giving up the baby from the start. yes the IP got the baby in the end, but this too must have been very traumatic and expensive.!!

OD2, sorry to contradict your post but I do feel very strongly about the fact that international surrogacy has very bad press that is undeserved. It is a personal choice but there are so few people who do surrogacy and even less who brave international surrogacy because of these reasons. It is still a wonderful journey and I feel so blessed to have met my surrogate who I met through a doctor, I never paid a cent to be introduced to my surrogate in anyway. 

there is so little information about people who have done international surrogacy and the Ukraine case comes up time and time again, but they did break the law, this is why it was an issue and cost them so much... More people doing international surrogacy need to talk out about there wonderful journey to show that there are choices. I have found the lack of information out there very frustrating and this is the reason for my post,  I want to put the information out there of what I have found to encourange other people to do the same.

Gigglygirl, my daughter too will know her roots, she will meet my wonderful surrogate and her family! I see no difference at all between my experience and someone in the UK!! My surrogate had 3 embryos put back. The doctor decided this was best for our situation, he is very close to my surrogate and would never compromise her in anyway and neither would I. 

International surrogacy can be a wonderful experience!! and more people out there need to talk about it so people looking into surrogacy can make informed choices.


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## ODR

Hi all
I was wondering if anyone has had experience with a comapny called BioTexCom http://russurrogate.com/en/en_home.php out of Kiev Ukraine? I have been in contact with them and seem to have very good results with surrogates and egg donors. My husband and I are still unsure about New Life as they seem to be very new and the negative publicity read on another site has created a concern for us. 
Any feedback is welcomed.
Thanks
odr
/links


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## OD2

Nevergiveup - I'm so pleased that you've had such a good experience and that you'll stay close.  No offence taken at all!


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## jibbing

Hi just wondering if anyone answered your question as to whether biotexcom is a reliable clinic to go to in Ukraine? 
Anybody has any recommendations as to which clinic is reliable and which is fraud ?


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## aleta

I didn't do much research on Biotex, but  once I mentioned it to a girld who did, she said that she was very dissapointed because it seemed to be and I'm quoting "a guy with a mobile phone". no company, no nothing behind him. Doing all the researches about all the other"companies" I figgured that whoever has a nose for the bussiness can start a company that is doing an agency work, and lot of them turn to be frauds and dupers. 
Maybe you should try contancting IRTSA agency, it or La vita felice in Kharkow seemed to be the most professional ones in the bussiness, tho there is no agency that you couldn't find some black spots or bad informations after all.I am sorry to say after all the mails I exchanged, and informations I got, it's Ukraine after all.


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## jibbing

Thanks! your reply is very helpful. I get a swift response from BIOTEXCOM , they seem quite helpful. but I can hardly find anything on internet about this company.

you mentioned that I should try "IRTSA agency, it or La vita felice "

I found the link for http://www.irtsa.com.ua/en/ 
and La Vita Felice is one of the company I'm considering (although I read some article about some guy couldn't get the baby out of the country because of legal issue) , I'm also researching NEW LIFE , and Intersona . I'd be interested to know what you think about these companies.

thanks again.


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## Blaise37

Hi, everybody.

As we chose an agency, we processessed so much information in Internet. That's what we found as regards Biotex http://www.crji.org/news.php?id=150&l=2. IRTSA have not worked for a long time. There is little said about them. We did not find people who could tell us about them and who made use of their services.

We also considered New Life, After having correspondence with those agencies, we decided to apply to LVF and travel to Kharkov. Although the decision was made, we worried a lot as we made our initial visit. The consultation went well, all our questions were answered, and we signed the contracts. 
However, we got the pregnancy only following the thrird attempt. We continue to be worried. But so far everything goes well.

Blaise


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## david81818181

Hello all,

I am new to this site. We have been trying for a baby for 5 years with mulitiple IVF failures. We decided to investigate surrogacy in the Summer. We originally planned to do surrogacy in India using a donor from Georgia or the Ukraine. Recently we have started to consider surrogacy in the Ukraine given the proximity to white donors and reduced travel time / expense vs India.

So I would like to know if anyone has had any positive (!) experiences with New Life (or knows anyone else that has) i.e. anyone successfully had a child with them, or have a pregnant surrogate currently? I have read all the posts that I could find on this site and it seems that there are various negative experiences that people have had, but no one is roundly positive (I may have missed it on the site though)

Our experience thus far: We were in contact with Mariam in New Life Georgia about getting a donor originally. She was very nice and understanding, having apparently had fertility treatment herself. However we found that there were no Georgian donors that matched the profile we wanted (mainly because they are all so dark haired), so we were forwarded onto the New Life Ukraine business where they have more fair donors. Here we have been fairly frustrated. Several times we have tried to book donors only to be told that either they had either been already booked by someone else, or that for medical reasons they would not be doing another cycle. They appear to apply a fairly aggressive first come first served policy and are unwilling to hold any new donors for us. This might just be unlucky but I am already starting to get nervous about progressing any further with them. Perhaps for the greater good of this site we should give it a go anyway and then I can report back, although I am not inclined to lose £10k in finding out.


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## Allen

Hello David,

We are working with La Vita Felice in Kharkov. They booked us a donor on the first inquiry, she was available - though the girl is very nice .


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## LouGhevaert

Hi

Embarking upon surrogacy in the Ukraine raises a number of legal and practical issues to think about. In addition to ensuring you have a safe travel plan to get home to the UK after the birth and secure your legal status as parents in the UK by way of a parental order, you should also bear in mind:

- The British Embassy in Kiev will likely require a DNA test before processing any application for a British passport or travel papers for baby and this can take a while to deal with. There have been a number of high profile cases where intended parents have experienced difficulties getting home from the Ukraine with their baby after the birth and it is vital to manage the citizenship and immigration law arrangements with care.

- The English court will work from a starting point that any surrogacy arrangement entered into in the Ukraine is commercial therefore breaching the public policy ban against commercial surrogacy in the UK - this is one of the reasons why a parental order application in this case will be dealt with as a complex legal exercise in the High Court

- The importance of obtaining specialist advice from a Ukrainian lawyer (as well as a specialist lawyer in the UK) to ensure all of the legal issues have been dealt with properly at the Ukrainian end (a specialist legal report will need to be prepared by a Ukrianian lawyer to support a parental order application in the English High Court anyway). There is currently draft legislation in the Ukrainian Parliament concerning the control and regulation of surrogacy in the Ukraine and it is important to keep abreast of this and any other relevant developments.

- The language barrier - which can make it more difficult to manage the legal and associated legal issues in the Ukraine.

- A Ukrainain birth certificate naming intended parents as baby's parents will not be automatically recognised in the UK - a British Birth certificate will, however, be issued upon the grant of a parental order by the English court.

For more information about international surrogacy check out http://www.porterdodsonfertility.com/surrogacy-law/international-surrogacy/

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## jasminescent

Hi. I have visited Renaissance   working with Biotexcom and they are worth visiting to meet other people using them,  They have alot of people going there for ivf so but it all seems word of mouth.  They seem to be involved in surrogacy and quite a few with babies there -


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