# Surrogacy in Ukraine



## Dory10

Here's the new Surrogacy in Ukraine thread 

Please take a moment to read the posting guidelines http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=260253.0

Happy chatting

Dory xxx
Surrogacy Board Moderator


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## AmeliaH

Hi, I'm in. we're now waiting for our safe pregnancy stage, expecting twins   everything crossed


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Amelia

Congratulations!

We are looking at BioTexCom clinic in Ukraine. Im trying to find out if they still offer the guarantee surrogacy packages, or if it is just 1 attempt packages now. I emailed the clinic and they sent information about 1 attempt packages  

Has anyone had recent experience of BioTexCom?


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## Denmommy

hi, i'm new here. 

my dh and i faced infertility when we already had our ds Den. I had hysterectomy after Den's delivery     it took time to heal and recover, both physically and psycho. we always wanted to have more kids and never ever though everything could work this way. adoption was discussed as an option. we even contacted a few adoption agencies but found out it was so complicated, time and money-consuming, and most importantly - providing no guarantees for a match and final green light for adoption. all our friends were telling us to try surrogacy, but we never took it seriously. 

willy-nilly, we started exploring this option. our journey brought us to Kiev, Ukraine. we were there just a week ago while our ds was staying with his grandparents. we met people there in the clinic and shared our stories. some try again and again many times. i don't want it to be a forever journey. our doctor said that we're young and it gives us much more chances for success from the very first attempt. fingers crossed


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## AmeliaH

hi denmommy. 
so sorry for u  . life is sometimes so cruel. having a baby born by yourself, it's probably very tough to rely on a surro whom you dont even know. unlike you, i waited for the right time for parenting for too long. too long. we we started trying nothing worked. it was a despair. i was going through recurrent mc even with de, so surrogacy came out as our last chance. next week is our 12th with our twins and we are super excited. i feel awkward to ask, but can you conceive on your own eggs? have they approved you?
xx


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Denmommy

I tried to reply to this yesterday and can see my post never made it 

My husband and i also looked into adoption, and then had a quick look at surrogacy and have ended up at a stage where we have booked in lots of tests, having our fertility consultant write a letter and applying to BioTexCom in Ukraine. What clinic did you visit? What was your experience?

We are also not wanting to be stuck in a look of trying over and over with surrogates, and can only hope it works for us. We have been through IVF/ICSI for many years and had 5 embryo transfers with amazing grade 1 and 1-2 blastocysts and had BFN's, so we are hoping surrogacy will be the key to having a little one complete our family. Im 34 years old, so i really want to get moving with this as soon as possible so i can try with my own eggs the first time.

It occurred to me that we are thinking of the All inclusive Economy package with the clinic which does not include doctor check ups after the baby is born, and we may have to stay in Kiev for a number of months until the paperwork and passport are sorted for the child. Im just wondering how much extra it will be to get check ups and have immunisations, and how easy these will be to arrange for a baby. Does anyone have experience of this and can you advise

Thanks


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## Denmommy

yes, it’s very tough emotionally but in the meantime it’s a straw, my only chance. At time i feel badly, I close my eyes and imagine the times when assisted reproduction was inaccessible. What’s then? I would never have a chance to have my own child again. And I’m still young and healthy. yes, life is sometimes very cruel. I accepted this challenge even though it was so painful for me and family. 
Yes, they gave us a try on our own. So we still have a chance to have a baby absolutely connected to us genetically, and to our son as well.


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## Denmommy

Hi, nice to meet you. i'll pm you if you don't mind  
xxx


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## AmeliaH

I'm so glad they approved you for your own eggs stimulation. How many attempts do they give you on oe?


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## Dory10

Posts have been modified to remove unnecessary quotes of previous posts.

Thank you for your understanding.

Dory surrogacy board moderator


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## ECM1981

Hello everyone. Im from australia and we have just started our surrogacy journey in ukraine going through Lotus. I am reall nervous about it all and would love to hear some positive stories to ease my mind. Their is not much info on Australian forums as Ukraine is a relatively new options. Im also not too familiar with fertility friends so I am trying to navigate around. Thanks ☺


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## Wishings15

Oh good luck with your journey. 
Ive head good things about surrogacy in Ukraine 
I'm looking in my sister being a surrogate, unfortunately, this side of the forum is quite than others but you should have a read through old posts xx


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## ECM1981

Thanks wishingonastar15. Can you recommend another forum for good info?


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## ECM1981

We have been recommended Lotus as an agency or New Hope, also another agency. Both use Adonis for their fertility procedures. We are from Australia. Hope that helps.


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## Denmommy

They gave us 2 attempts on own eggs with further transfer to donor eggs. I don’t want it to be donor I want my bio. I hope my 2 attempts will work. Our doctor said that our chances are quite high, so fingers crossed. They gave me this huge pack of different medications. They explained several times how to use them, but still I feel a bit confused. Now watching videos on youtube  how to use all those ovulation stimulation medications


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## Denmommy

Hi and welcome. Australia is far to travel but I’m sure it’s worth it. If this is your first time in Ukraine, I can only imagine how thrilled you are. I was like that before our first travel. I liked Kiev and people. Reproductive clinics we saw are all new with modern equipment and beautiful interiors. We signed up with biotexcom. Good luck in your journey.


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## Dory10

posts modified to remove unnecessary and excessive quoting of the previous post, this is the second polite reminder, in future messages will just be removed.

Thanks for your understanding

Dory
Surrogacy board moderator


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## AmeliaH

Margirl, hi. i've just posted for you in another thread. i hope it'll help you decide. we finally reached our safe stage of pregnancy so now I breathe a little bit easier. huh
best wishes for you, too
be free to contact me if any questions 
may I ask what led you to surrogacy and where are you from?


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## AmeliaH

gosh, so sorry for you  . so many tortures on your way. having only one kidney makes pregnancy risky to your health and even life. i'm very sorry for that. it sounds that surrogacy may be a way out for you. i hope it works. at least you wont out your health under threat. our way to surrogacy was also a despair but everything is left behind when you got so much desired bfp, than see your first ultrasound that's gorgeous. i can be a very good counselor so be free to contact me just in case. will you apply for surrogacy up there in Canada?


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## danish

Hi!  

We are a coulpe from Denmark who want one more child ( we have a boy at 4 years old ) Its very difficult to find the right clinic so I really hope that we can find help here in this forum!

Which clinic is best in Ukraine?

I have some informations in email from Biotexcom and Intersono. Can anybody tell me which clinic is the best and why? What are the difference between these 2 clinics?

Olso, is there another clinic that you can recommend?


Thank you for helping out   Its very confusing and scary


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## Proud-Dad-of-Twins

I can highly recommend Dr Uliana at Intersono clinic in Lviv. Don't know Biotexcom since we used La Vita Nova agency. We succeeded in our first IVF attempt and the whole surrogacy process (from signing the contract to bringing the babies home) was very smooth and took less than 12 months. We came home last year with healthy adorable twins which is the very proof that we made the right choice.


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## JParker

Ukraine seems to be a popular destination for surrogacy. So many people have their babies born there. That’s great that they make life dreams come true for so many intended parents. I’ve figured out a few possible clinics to contact. What I’ve noticed is that many talk about biotexcom provider. So many reviews and threads about them. 
What’s so special about it? There’re so many other clinics so why do all choose biotex? 
to those who really dealt with them – are there REALLY so much intended parents there?


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## AmeliaH

Hi! 
I understand why you’re asking. When we were to make our choice, we also took other people’s opinions into consideration. That’s normal. But it’s not the key thing, after all.
Well, we now have tx in biotex. It’s de surrogacy. If you browse the photos of the clinic on the web, you’ll see that in reality it’s very small. However, it’s always crowded: IPs, surros and donors. We had to wait for a while before we could see our doctor. The queues to nurses and even to managers also happened.


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## Reptile Smile

Their 'guarantee' seems to be quite a talking point and may be part of the reason for its fame online?


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## JParker

what exactly 'guarantees' do you mean?


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## AmeliaH

this means they will keep trying until you get your baby. Endless number of attempts are covered by each of their all inclusive surrogacy contracts. hopefully, for us it worked from the very first attempt. however, i know that some couples need 5 and even more attempts to finally have a baby. it depends. in any case, they cover all expenses for each new attempt. thus, they are interested in success of your program not less than you are.


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## AmeliaH

hi all. 
next week we're traveling to kiev to meet our surro for the first time! they allowed us to be present at ultrasound which so overwhelming. I count days till the flight. my dh is more reserved (at least he tries to seem more relaxed as to this but i know he isn't) i'm so impatient to meet the lady who carries our babies. and also the doctor to tell everything's fine. 
we couldn't travel at our 12th week it was a bit disappointing. 
i hope this time it'll work for us
xxx


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Good luck AmeliaH 

We will be travelling to Kiev next week for
A consultation with BioTexCom. We will decide on out next steps after visiting them. We are hoping to
Use the surrogacy programme with them.


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## AmeliaH

Great news 

I’m glad you finally got an appointment. I hope they will do their best to help you
We’ve traveled to Kyiv last week and stayed for two days. It was an unforgettable and exciting journey. It’s already possible to feel very slight and gentle kicks of our babies. The surrogate seems nice. She was very shy and seemed a bit awkward. we are total strangers to her, I understand. We brought her some presents with hopes to make friends. She cares of our babies and this is such an important job. 

I’ll be waiting for your good news. 
Please keep updated
And enjoy your stay in Kiev

xx


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi AmeliaH

We have been and were impressed with the clinic. We signed up with them! We hope to be back there soon, probably around December time  

It's so great that you got to meet your surrogate! I bet it was very surreal. I hope it all
Works out well for you.


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## Bella2016

Hi all, is there anyone who has been to Biotexcom and has had a baby via de surrogacy? I have just watched the videos on their website and got so excited about their all-inclusive packages, but my DH was very suspicious. I searched their website for client feedback, but they seem to have been written by the same person (easy to tell because of the english grammatical mistakes in the texts), so i checked google, but i found very contradictory comments. I would love to go there, but am a bit concerned now…

Thank you. Bxx


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Bella

Me and my husband went there last week and just signed up for the surrogacy. So we haven't had a baby through that yet, but fingers crossed 

From our experience so far, the clinic was really busy and had quite a few couples that had gone for a consultation, from all over the world. They rally looked after us and made sure we were well looked after. We were quite impressed, and ended up going for it.

Bella, what country are you from? 

I'll keep everyone posted on my experience with them , moving forward. I expect that we will be there around December time for egg retrieval and then embryo transfer into a surrogate.


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## Bella2016

Stilltryingandhoping- Thank you for your post. I have sent you a PM, I hope you don't mind.
xxx


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Bella

Yeah no problem. I've replied to it


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## Denmommy

hey there,
stilltryingandhoping - great news from you! I hope they will match you with a surro asap. we're also with biotex, oe surrogacy. still waiting for a match

Bella, we're trying on our own eggs but still feel free to contact me if there's anything i may help you with.

BTW, I've an idea to start a blog sharing all our experience about our surrogacy journey. I used to be a total newbie just a couple of months ago but now I know quite a lot on this very specific field. i feel my experience can be precious for newbies like me. does it make sense? Or I shouldn't waste my time

what do you think?


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## Dory10

Denmommy

Here's a link to the diary section where you can create your own blog/diary about your experiences http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=555.0

Dory 
Xx


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi DenMommy

Thanks. When we went, they gave me my stimulation drugs and gave me instructions to have a scan in October on day 19-21 of my cycle. So they have a timeline in place for me already and will pick a surrogate and sync her to match my cycle (we are using my egg). From this timing, I'm assuming we will be in Kiev around beginning to mid December.

Did they say something similar to you? Or are you waiting for them to find a surrogate before they give you any further instructions?


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## Denmommy

Dory, thanks for the link.

Stilltryingandhoping, they gave all the meds but still I've got no green light for stimulation as they still haven't found a GC carrier for me. I'm waiting for them to update me and once they settle everything down I'll be stimulated in my next cycle. and like in your case, they will synchronize surro with me. 

xxx


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## AmeliaH

Denmommy, any updates? have they contacted you? how long are you waiting already?


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## Denmommy

It’s 7 weeks already. no match yet, unfortunately. I still hope they will contact me soon. they told I shall wait for the first day of the next cycle to start stimulation. It’ll be approximately in 10 days. Maybe they will contact me before this time? Not to wait for the next cycle


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## AmeliaH

I'm sure they will contact you soon .
don't worry
they usually keep up with their 2-3 months waiting time. Maybe not in this cycle, hun, but I'm the next cycle you start your stimulation. so get ready, have enough rest, take vitamins and eat healthy. folic acid is a must now. and no junk food, smoking or alcohol please. 
that's all you can do now. 

xxx


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## lolly1121

Hi girls,

I was hoping I could get some more information from you all. I've had three transfers with my surro but three failed attempts, miscarriage, chemical and now BFN.

Not sure what to do next, how does it work in Ukraine I've read some very mixed reviews. I like the idea u get unlimited attempts. 

Be grateful for any advice xx


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## AmeliaH

Hi, I’m sorry. I hope it works the next time. I’m an IM awaiting twins to come in February. Our surrogate is Ukrainian. She was chosen and is totally guided and monitored by our clinic in Kiev. Yes, they provide unlimited number of attempts. But if your surrogacy looses pregnancy gets bfn, they choose another one. Also, with Vip package, they provide you with experienced GC who already gave birth to babies for intended parents


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## lolly1121

Hi Amelia,

Thanks for the reply. What clinic are you with? Did you go for all inclusive package? We would want to use own eggs/ sperm. 
Congratulations on the twins hope they arrive safely. 😊 

Any experiences/ advice anyone can share be grateful for xx


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Lolly

I'm so sorry to hear about your failed experience with surrogacy  was there any sort of reason? Did you have your embryos tested at all?

Me and my husband have signed up for surrogacy with a clinic called Biotexcom. We are waiting for our first round of treatment as we only signed contracts in September. We will also be using my eggs and my husbands sperm. This clinic offer a "guarantee" package, so we get unlimited attempts until we have success. 

There's legislation in Ukraine that states that couples who are infertile can us a surrogate. I'm assuming there is a medical reason for you already using a surrogate, so you should qualify. With us, we didn't have any diagnosed illness or anything physical to see, but we had 5 failed IVF attempts, so that was enough to qualify us.

Make sure you get legal advice on immigration! This is a must. You need to make sure you will be able to bring the baby to the UK. In our case, at least one of us will be genetically linked to the child, and we have specifically asked for a surrogate who is single or divorced. This is so we can get a British passport for any baby we have through surrogacy.

Do some research, there's so many clinics in Ukraine. Look at some of the other posts as people have done some comparisons of them too 

Good luck!


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## Reptile Smile

Just to clarify - it's not that you can't bring the child back if the mother is married, it's that the legal process is different.  The husband of the surrogate is recognised under UK law as the father, and you first need to register the child as a British citizen with form MN1 - this process is discussed in the Foreign Office advice document on overseas surrogacy.  As Stilltryingandhoping says, most people get legal advice, though there are those that manage the legal process themselves, including the parenting order.  I wouldn't, though...

@lolly1121, the only thing you might want to consider about the Ukraine if you're coming back to the UK is that the visa is only for 3 months, and the process of getting the passport for the child is quite likely to take longer than this.

Have you considered Georgia?  There is no visa issue there (you can stay for up to a year).  Depends how important the 'guarantee' is for you.


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## lolly1121

Reptile Smile: thanks for clarifying. I haven't considered Georgia I was under the impression surrogacy was very expensive in America. The appeal to me with this is not having to find a surrogate they provide them. Also the fact that they guarantee u a baby at the end. We have wasted so much money this year with nothing to show for it. I feel lost 😢 Xx


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## lolly1121

Just reading through previous posts. How do they match you to a surrogate? Is this through personal preferences. Ive been looking at biotex there package for €29900 does that give unlimited tries too? On there website they don't have any up to date stats on success either 😕

Den mommy did u start your blog I would love to read?

Ukraine surrogacy makes me feel very uneasy purely because it's the Unknown I guess. How did you guys feel after visiting are they genuine people or just wanting the cash?

Thanks
Xx


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## peanutrain

Hi Lolly,
Reptile Smile was referring to the Republic of Georgia, not the state of Georgia (USA).


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## Reptile Smile

As Peanutrain says, Tbilisi in Georgia the country, not the US state (which as you say is very expensive).

I understand the draw of the guarantee. I'm not quite sure how it works, in the sense that I don't really know how anyone can guarantee something like surrogacy, but there it is.

Peanutrain and myself have separately had great luck with BFPs through our surrogates in New Life Georgia - not that that should sway you. I just wondered if you'd considered it, that was all. Good luck with everything. I can't tell you anything about the Ukraine, but if you have any questions about the process in general or about Georgia on the other thread, fire away, and I (and others) will be happy to help!

BTW - Denmommy's blog is here: http://havingababyafterhysterectomy.blogspot.co.uk/ (and a great read it is too!)

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


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## AmeliaH

Lolly, I understand that you might be scared by the unknown but what I saw in Ukraine is that it’s quite a European type country with welcoming people and easy communication. A big advantage of our journey was biotex’s all-inclusive basis. I mean  we didn’t have to worry about hotel, airport pickup, transportation, translation etc. they do everything to arrange a comfy staying for us. We signed up for 29k package, the economy one. VIP would be great but the costs of 49k was a great burden for us. My advice is to sign for standard package 39k. This is an optimal balance of price/service. When we got to know we’re expecting twins, we started to regret of not signing for standard package. It covers all expenses for meds and equipment in case of premature birth. So worth considering 

‘How do they match you to a surrogate?’ you won’t have a chance to choose as they ground their choice only on medical criteria. You won’t even have a chance to meet your surro before the 12th week of pregnancy. In case of failure, they provide you with another surro. We met ours when we traveled for our 16 weeks scans. She seems quite nice but too shy. She seemed embarrassed to meet us even though we tried to be welcoming and brought her a lot of presents. She has her own children but it’s her first multiple pregnancy. I hope she’ll do it. I’m very worried for her and our babies. At the moment she lives with her family, but she will move to Kiev on the 32 th week of pregnancy. She will stay in special accommodation for surrogates and they will constantly monitor her health and the babies. You know, they even have water aerobics for surrogates. It was a surprise for me


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Lolly

As Amelia said, Ukraine(especially Kiev) is quite modern and European like. I had reservations about it and me and my husband went there in September, with a view to go with out instinct. We found the staff to be very helpful and don't mind some of the things other people might. For example, a lot of people have commented on lack of communication from Biotexcom. I must admit, if I send an email over with any questions, I do find it takes longer now to get a reply than it did when we were enquiring. I think this is down to another peoson being our point of contact, rather than them not bothering with us. Tbh I totally get it. I'm not in the middle of a treatment cycle, my questions can wait a couple of days. When I am in the middle of a treatment cycle, then I certainly would make sure someone was answering my questions promptly  

We won't be choosing our surrogate. The doctors choose them and we don't have a say in it. As long as the person is healthy and compatible, I guess that's ok. 

We also went for the economy package. I really hope we made the right choice. It's a bit of a gamble as the standard package covers you for a few things in case it happens. We were torn right up until the last day and decided to go for economy as we don't mind the smaller shared accommodation, we can get our own SIM card and also we will have to save that extra money anyway so we will keep it aside in case we get  any extras costs like premature baby health bills etc.

It's very scary and daunting. I would recommend doing as much research as possible and comparing countries/clinics and also checking your budget. Don't forget to budget for extras such as tests you have to do in the Uk(Biotexcom gave us a list of tests we needed to do privately and send them). We spent about 1k on tests before we were even given a consultation appointment. With out first cycle, as I am being stimulated, I will need to get ultrasound tests done here a few times,to send to the clinic. 
Also, don't forget to budget for legal fees.

It might be worth speaking to some agencies in Kiev and seeing what they can tell you about some of the clinics too  

Good luck!


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## ruby100

Hi all

I'm finding this a really helpful thread.  I'm considering attending Biotexcom but I'm also looking into Intersono and also 'successful parent's agency'.

I can't really stimulate over in the Ukraine as I have a difficult medical condition that makes even London hospitals nervous.  I did go through egg stimulation and collection earlier this year and it was OK though so I'm happy to do it again, and maybe courier my eggs over.  However, so far with our surrogate we've had one 9wk,2day miscarriage and a failed FET with 2 beautiful embryos (only a whiff of a chemical ).  I just don't know whether to go through all the heartache again or just cut my losses and head to Ukraine.

Can I ask is there anyone her who's used surrogacy and egg donation in Ukraine and how they found it?

Thanks 

Ruby xx


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Ruby

Just to make you aware, we have some great blastocysts stored at our clinic in Manchester and enquired about getting these sent to our clinic in Kiev. Although not impossible, it's very difficult. **** make it difficult to take embryos out of Europe I believe(if anyone knows differently, please let me know). Also, the courier would be pretty expensive.

S


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## ruby100

Hi - thanks for letting me know S . . . 

urgh that sounds not very encouraging :-(

are you still pursuing it?

Ruby xx


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Ruby

It's easier for me to get stimulated again than try to meet all the conditions that HFEA  set and pay so much money. I'm just going to go trough egg collection again in Kiev and have the ale some fresh embryos.


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## gwinethblack

Stilltryingandhoping said:


> Hi Amelia
> 
> Congratulations!
> 
> We are looking at BioTexCom clinic in Ukraine. Im trying to find out if they still offer the guarantee surrogacy packages, or if it is just 1 attempt packages now. I emailed the clinic and they sent information about 1 attempt packages
> 
> Has anyone had recent experience of BioTexCom?


hi! I did not find the ivf in ukraine thread so decided to write here. i am too going for biotex clinic. But it will be my first time. have you already been in there/ how was it? i am planning on using donor's eggs and sperm and I have been told by the manages that if my health is alright I will be paying only for 1 attempt even though I have had 2 ivf on oe with bfn. i know that they have this package with 5 attempts with the refund if nothing works. I want to opt for it but it is a bit more expensive than with 1 attempt. I do not know why i am telling all of that to you. but maybe someone will advise me too on what to choose..
The main thing is that i am really nervous going there for the first time. i do not know where I will live and how I will go to the clinic..


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Gwinetheblack

It's natural to be nervous. Yes me and my husband went there in September. The clinic provided accommodation and also they pay for a driver to pick you up at the airport and take you to the accommodation. The driver also takes you to and from the clinic. Our flight got in at 1am and the driver still came to get us at the airport. Our departing flight was at 5am so we had the driver come get us at 2.30 am and all was ok  

What country are you from? I know for us, atleast one of us(me and my husband) have to be genetically linked to the child if we want to have any chance of being the legal parents in the UK. Also we need that to be able to bring the child back to the UK. I don't know if this is different in some other countries. You should find out if there will be an immigration problem for a child you have or not. The legal aspects are very important. 

You should ask as many questions as you need to of the clinic, they will answer them all for you. 

We ended up signing an all inclusive surrogacy package, so I don't know how that compares to the IVF packages. I do know that I met another British couple who were going for the all inclusive IVF package with unlimited attempts with donor eggs and after they examined the lady, they decided they could not offer her this package. They ended up signing for 2 attempts instead. I think this was down to her having a medical condition and her chances of success were lower. So I'm assuming they didn't want to take the risk of offering 5 treatments or money back. 

Wil you be going alone? When we went, they gave us a nice hotel with a suite. But I know that accommodation differs depending on how much they think you may spend and also what they have available.

Good luck!


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## auroraflowers

If anyone has any doubts I will assure you to leave them. If you want to go to Ukraine - go. we have just taken our baby from the maternity house. it was our first surrogacy program and even our first try. We also want to get another baby very soon so the age gap is not too big. for now we will be waiting for the documents to be performed. i saw here some posts on my clinic. we want to sigh the second surrogacy contract so the program will start soon. But for now our baby is our prerogative.


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## gwinethblack

Hi Stilltryingandhoping! Thank you for such a thoughtful reply! I will be going all by myself (but I am still hopping to bring with me a friend to not feel that lonely). Judging by your reply I may not be provided with some services in biotex if I sign a specific contract? I mean how it works? I was talking to their manager and she was consulting me on the treatment itself, I didn't have the chance to ask more about how it will all be technically. This is what is stressing me out the most - this inability to predict how it all will be going. I am from Germany. Here the ivf on donor's eggs is not allowed, that's why I've tried ivf on oe for two times. You know it is so hard to understand when it's time to stop trying and change the tactics..
I think this all inclusive package was made just for me.. It is really convenient if you want to save money. But how did explained why they do not want to sign this package but the 2 attempts one? 
Thanks again for the reply!!



auroraflowers said:


> If anyone has any doubts I will assure you to leave them. If you want to go to Ukraine - go. we have just taken our baby from the maternity house. it was our first surrogacy program and even our first try. We also want to get another baby very soon so the age gap is not too big. for now we will be waiting for the documents to be performed. i saw here some posts on my clinic. we want to sigh the second surrogacy contract so the program will start soon. But for now our baby is our prerogative.


congratulations!! this is amazing! How was it? It was your first try, really? This is a miracle! I have been trying for so long and been gettin bfn after another. Now as you may have seen I am opting for ivf de and ds also IN ukraine and I am trying to find the reviews on the clinic THAT I am contacting right now. 
If not a secret what gender is your baby and how did you name him or her?


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Gwinetheblack

Email the clinic with all your questions and someone will answer them for you. That's what I did, back and forth for months. I actually sent new questions everyday for a few months because I had so many that I kept thinking of new things I needed to ask! Ha ha 

For me, the important thing was to consider all options. So I gathered information about every option available out there(different solutions- donor egg IVF, donor embryos, further tests , adoption, surrogacy). I then looked at different countries, and different clinics in these countries. I made an informed decision after collecting as much information as I could.

I would suggest that you do something similar and look at all the facts, and see what solution fits your circumstances. 

People in these message boards can give you some information, but it's the clinics who can answer your questions fully.

As to the other couple,I'm not sure exactly how or what they said. I'm guessing they just explained what they could and could not do. The first visit to Biotexcom clinic involves a lot of tests so they must have found something in these tests for that lady. Personally, I think it's great that they tell you straight away what is available to you. 

Also, just to let you know, for Biotexcom, you have to have some tests done in your country and send the results to them before you go and visit them for your first appointment. We spent around £1000 on doing these tests. 

Good luck


----------



## ruby100

I am trying to contact Biotexcom but they are not replying to my emails!  Is this usual?  I'm probably not patient enough lol

Can I ask - what do people think of Kiev itself who've been?  I'm concerned as I have an underlying condition that means I often need healthcare.  I'm worried that whilst waiting for the papers for the baby (we have to sent our own passports into HM Passport) that I will get unwell.  Anyone know?

What's the accommodation like provided by Biotexcom S?  Did you think it would be ok?  Did you get legal advice before you signed up?  I'm in touch with Natalie Gamble and I'm probably going to get a session with her as I'm anxious about all the legal stuff 

Ruby xx


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Ruby

Who are you inconstant with at BioTexCom? I emailed a woman called Anastasia and she always took a day or 2 to message me back, but she always did eventually. The new contact I have now takes days or weeks. It's frustrating but I know when I really need an answer to something, I can really push it(call them, message all the contacts I have at the clinic etc). For now, I choose to let it rest as its not that important.

I'll be honest, I was nervous about heading out to Kiev. I'm Asian, and was worried that I may face racism(I don't know if that's naive of me or just super cautious). It was totally fine. What you may have to prepare for is that not many people speak English. We had a translating app that translated into Ukrainian, but in the Cyrillic alphabet. We would then need to hold the phone screen up so the other person could read it and see what we were asking. It was funny, but people were helpful  

I believe that the accommodation varies a lot. As we weren't sure if we were going for the cheapest or middle package, we told the clinic we would probably be picking the middle priced surrogacy package. We were put in a hotel and given our own suite and a very comfortable taxi when picked up. Now, I don't know if this is coincidence, or if it's because we went for the cheapest economy package, but the taxi to the airport was very run down and almost breaking down. Would we have gotten the same accommodation if we were sure we were going for the economy right from the start? I don't know? 

Natalie has replied to a few of my posts on fertility friends and she is very knowledgable. I would definitely recommend you speaking to her. I'm planning on meeting with one of her team when we have a pregnant surrogate and need advice on parental order. We have researched extensively and believe that the immigration aspect is covered for us.

As for healthcare, aside from the language barrier, I would think the hospitals are pretty modern. Do research this properly though and depending on your condition, make sure there is a facility that can provide the relevant care. It completely depends on how specialised the doctor needs to be to treat you, just like anywhere.

Keep me posted on your progress with them . It would be great to compare experiences


----------



## AmeliaH

auroraflowers, congrats on your new baby and thanks for sharing your joy with us. I hope the baby is feeling ok and you're enjoying your desired parenting. please keep us updated on how you proceed with all the papers and how long it takes.
we're awaiting twins to come in February keep posting xxx

ruby100, we're in contact with anastasia and yes it sometimes takes her a few days to respond. If it's not urgent, I can wait. If it's urgent for me, I may repeat message or try calling them. In any case, I always got answers to my questions, sooner or later.

As to accommodations, as far as I understood they have a lot throughout the city. It depends on the package you choose. I mean better package - better accommodation. On their youtube account, they have a video of some their accommodations like this 



 it's really gorgeous but we stayed in another hotel. Is there anyone who stayed in this venezia hotel? 

/links


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Amelia

Not long until February now! 

We stayed in a different hotel to, one called Domus hotel. The lady we spoke to at BioTex said that despite us having chosen the economy package, whenever anyone has a baby, they get private accommodation with a private bathroom and they also provide a cot for the baby. I don't think it will be a 5 star hotel, but the hotel we stayed at was 3* and nice and I imagine most will be ok.

You must be excited now to welcome your babies into the world. Have you found out the sex of the babies yet?

S x


----------



## ruby100

Hi Amelia

How exciting!  Can I ask are you using donor eggs?  I'm in a quandary - I can't decide whether to try and ship our frozen embryos out there or not.  The problem is that I can't stimulate out there as I have several severe conditions that means it's dangerous even in London . . .

Hi S - I'm thinking of going mid range package.  I'm gonna have to borrow the money in any case.  I'm worried about the items not covered by the economy package which, given our 'luck' is almost bound to affect us!  I'm tempted by the economy though.  It's reassuring to know you get the bathroom and cot no matter the package - I mean the economy one is not exactly cheap is it!

Ruby xx


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Ruby

No none of it is cheap! I've been working 2 jobs and we have cut back on EVERYTHING! But it will be worth it if we end up with a baby. We just tell ourselves that we are cutting back for 1 year, so it's not forever.

I've been approved to be stimulated twice at the clinic, but I am actually considering trying once with my own eggs and then if that fails, using donor eggs. Because the economy package doesn't include PGD, we have no way of knowing if failure will be due to bad embryos. PGD was the one thing swaying us towards the standard package.

If there's anyway you can make it happen, I personally think the standard package sounds good. We changed our mind to economy at the last minute, but were torn between the 2 for a long time. Like Amelia, if we end up with twins, I would imagine lots of extras to pay for and we end up spending that much anyway. But it's a gamble we have taken now.

Keep us posted with that happens. I would speak to your clinic as a starting point, ask them about moving the embryos to Ukraine. They will need to do their bit from their end and you will then have to get lots of information from the Ukrainian clinics to see if they comply with HFEA requirements. If you can meet all the requirements, they may let you move your embryos there. It's worth finding out.

Good luck! 
S xx


----------



## auroraflowers

ruby100 said:


> I am trying to contact Biotexcom but they are not replying to my emails! Is this usual? I'm probably not patient enough lol
> 
> Can I ask - what do people think of Kiev itself who've been? I'm concerned as I have an underlying condition that means I often need healthcare. I'm worried that whilst waiting for the papers for the baby (we have to sent our own passports into HM Passport) that I will get unwell. Anyone know?
> 
> What's the accommodation like provided by Biotexcom S? Did you think it would be ok? Did you get legal advice before you signed up? I'm in touch with Natalie Gamble and I'm probably going to get a session with her as I'm anxious about all the legal stuff
> 
> Ruby xx


Strange, because I have been to biotex too and they have replied me really quick. Maybe they have a lot of couples at the moment? I am in Kiev right now and there are so many people, we have been going to the maternity clinic with two other couples so I guess they are really busy these days, maybe try and email them again? 
I do not know your condition or situation at all so I will just tell you how it is for us. we will be staying in Ukraine for additional 2 months in order to perform the documents. unfortunately we both have work, so we will be traveling back and forth from finland to ukraine. My mother said that she will come here to help us though she could've stayed home because we are going to command a babysitter. for us the apartment is great, it is big, it even has the separate room for our kid, but of course we are not going to use it. it looks new and clean, but i doubt that we are the first couple to live here. But it is like a room in a good hotel, you know. Nothing to worry, we also have been worrying a bit about how it will be but we knew that we can change the room at any moment and move to the hotel.


----------



## auroraflowers

AmeliaH said:


> auroraflowers, congrats on your new baby and thanks for sharing your joy with us. I hope the baby is feeling ok and you're enjoying your desired parenting. please keep us updated on how you proceed with all the papers and how long it takes.
> we're awaiting twins to come in February keep posting xxx
> 
> ruby100, we're in contact with anastasia and yes it sometimes takes her a few days to respond. If it's not urgent, I can wait. If it's urgent for me, I may repeat message or try calling them. In any case, I always got answers to my questions, sooner or later.
> 
> As to accommodations, as far as I understood they have a lot throughout the city. It depends on the package you choose. I mean better package - better accommodation. On their youtube account, they have a video of some their accommodations like this
> 
> 
> 
> it's really gorgeous but we stayed in another hotel. Is there anyone who stayed in this venezia hotel?
> 
> This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


Hi Amelia! We will stay in Ukraine for about 2 months I think. It is approximately of course. I will definitely be updating you on how it goes!
The baby is doing fine, I have made tons of her photos and shared with my friends. I think they are a bit annoyed but what can I do. Haha. We will be buying more clothes though in the shopping center near by because it is too cold here, almost 0 degrees or something, we have been covering our girl all the way to our hotel. Also we bought her a bear costume but it is too big for her. I hope that we will do better as parents with time.


----------



## gwinethblack

Stilltryingandhoping said:


> Gwinetheblack
> 
> Email the clinic with all your questions and someone will answer them for you. That's what I did, back and forth for months. I actually sent new questions everyday for a few months because I had so many that I kept thinking of new things I needed to ask! Ha ha
> 
> For me, the important thing was to consider all options. So I gathered information about every option available out there(different solutions- donor egg IVF, donor embryos, further tests , adoption, surrogacy). I then looked at different countries, and different clinics in these countries. I made an informed decision after collecting as much information as I could.
> 
> I would suggest that you do something similar and look at all the facts, and see what solution fits your circumstances.
> 
> People in these message boards can give you some information, but it's the clinics who can answer your questions fully.
> 
> As to the other couple,I'm not sure exactly how or what they said. I'm guessing they just explained what they could and could not do. The first visit to Biotexcom clinic involves a lot of tests so they must have found something in these tests for that lady. Personally, I think it's great that they tell you straight away what is available to you.
> 
> Also, just to let you know, for Biotexcom, you have to have some tests done in your country and send the results to them before you go and visit them for your first appointment. We spent around £1000 on doing these tests.
> 
> Good luck


i have started contacting the clinic and we will be arranging the initial consultation for the end of october. I am a bit worried that i may distract the managers of their work. i assume they have a lot of couples who opt for fertility tx. 
yes, i know about those tests and that did upset me though not so much. i think I can do some of them at the clinic..


----------



## auroraflowers

Gwinetheblack
thank you! It's a girl, we named her Liyah. it means miracle. we tried so hard trying to explain the meaning of her name to the managers haha yes, it has been our first surrogacy program and the surrogate mother was great, she conceived right away and all of the us pictures were really fine so our baby was born healthy and I suppose with a smile on her face. 
I know how hard it is to conceive it is not like I haven’t had problems in my life. I have been through severe endo and had to undergo hysterectomy. I am not at the age when you can rely on using your eggs and tests showed that my eggs are poor quality so we had no other choice than to opt for surrogacy.. I will be praying for you really hard so you will fulfill your dreams!


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Gwinthblack

Good luck with your consultation, I hope it goes well and you get the answers you want 

So I realise every one here is at different stages of their surrogacy journey.

I'm feeling a bit anxious as I wait for ours to begin now. I'm not quite sure what sort of timescale we are working with and exactly when we may be in Ukraine for egg retrieval. I was ok with it for th last month, but started to get to me recently, especially as I can't plan things like time off work or christmas(I seriously have no idea when we wil be going). I guess I'm anxious to get things going and also nervous. The fact that my new account manager doesn't reply to me is not helping


----------



## ruby100

hi S - sorry to hear you're feeling anxious.  I think that's totally normal though with ALL fertility /IVF stuff and especially when it's a change such as going to the Ukraine.  I think you'd be abnormal if you weren't nervous!  i feel nervous and I'm not even as far on as you in the process.  I hate flying so I even have to get through that - never mind the 'rest of it'! lol!
I hope your new accounts manager gets back to you.  I did finally hear back from Anastasia - I get the impression they're very busy - maybe that's why?  I hope they do get back to you though - I find waiting on tenterhooks when you're awaiting an answer to a question on this important journey to be one the worst emotional triggers.  
Keep us posted - I'm interested in your journey, I really think we will be following in your (positive) footsteps!  
Take care Ruby xx


----------



## Reptile Smile

Sorry to hear about your anxiety, Stilltryingandhoping.  I know I'd be the same in your situation.  I don't think there's any excuse for lousy communication in this day and age.  It's just not good enough, whether they're busy or not...


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Thanks for the kind words everyone. The waiting is difficult at times. I've generally been ok throughout our journey, the years we have wondered what will happen. I guess it's bound to happen at some point, both me and my husband are feeling a little worn out by everything.

I am left guessing what timescale we are working on, but I can guess for now. 

Yes the lack of communication is getting really annoying. If I could ask questions an sheet the answers I need, it may help me relax a little. I just need to be a bit more patient.


----------



## ruby100

Well, we've had some 'good' news - not much in this business is there!  They've agreed I can 'possibly' have a go at IVF myself (i.e. not use a surrogate) so that's exciting.  I know it's a VERY low chance of success but still.  I'm also in conversation with Anastasia at Biotexcom, and she's agreed two attempts with our frozen embryos and then onto DEs.  So our new plan is - see whether Ruby can actually 'DIY IVF' and if not, move straight onto shipping embryos to Ukraine and following up on that plan.  And we've booked a holiday - going this week   so need a holiday, get my head straight and chill!


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Ruby

That's great. So did you contact HFEA and figure it all out with them? So there's no problems shipping embryos out there. Amazing if it's all sorted for you  I really wish you luck with it all. Keep us posted on your progress and journey. 

S xx


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## Bella2016

Stilltrying- I have tried PM-ing you but your message box is full. Could you clear some space, please? bx


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hey Bella

Cleared some messages so it should work now


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## ruby100

Hi S - no not contacted HFEA yet.  but printed all their stuff out and read it and will be asking my clinic when i see them in a few weeks.  Either way I go looks as though i'll be stimulating again 
S - can I ask how long do you think you'll have to stay in Kiev after the baby/babies are born and before getting your documents to travel back to the UK - this is the most stressful bit for us.  I've also got 4 dogs and I'm currently trying to work out if I can get them to Ukraine or not!  Sort of depends how long we have to spend out there waiting.  

Ruby xx


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Ruby

I'm anticipating it will take 3-4 months. The British government website advises that it is taking atleast 10 weeks as a minimum, at the moment. From reading hoe long it takes others, 3-4 months sounds accurate. 

We have 2 guineapigs who we love to bits, and will have to figure something out as we don't want to rehome them. We have a pet hotel that they stay at whenever we go away for even a night, so looking to make some sort of arrangement with them. My husband will probably be travelling back and forth so he can take them whenever he is back in the UK.

I guess you would have to check with wherever you were staying about tor dogs. A lot of places would not allow you to have them. I'm sure there would be the option, somewhere, of keeping them. 

S xx


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## ruby100

Thanks S

Aww I love Guineas too.  I've asked Anastasia if I can keep the dogs - it would have to form part of our potential contract with them.  I've looked it all up and I can get pet passports for all of them.  3-4 months seems like such a long time, it's such a pain isn't it!  Anyway, I guess in the grand scheme of things it's only a relatively short time!


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Ruby
Well hopefully they can accommodate you. 

I've messaged my manager this morning letting her know we can begin(I was waiting for my day 1) so let's see how long it takes her to get back to me with a scan date. I'll need notice for this as I'm arranging it at a private clinic here, in the UK. Hoping she can message back today and not leave it a week for me to chase up! 😁


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## ruby100

How exciting!  I really hope they get back to you today!  did they?  

Bury xx


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Yes she did, eventually. I've got a scan in 3 weeks. The clinic will then tell me when to take my depo shot to down regulate and I'm not sure f timescales after that. 

But exciting that something is happening!


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## ruby100

Gosh thank goodness she did!  Yes very exciting!  Once it's underway it'll be all go!  Can I ask whereabouts in London you're having your scan?  I live in Kent but have been going to London for all the IVF related stuff. 

Ruby x


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Ruby

In in the NW so I'm using s scanning clinic in Manchester. I've been receiving treatment through the years at CARE Manchester, but they won't do the scans for me for the surrogacy.


----------



## gwinethblack

Stilltryingandhoping said:


> Gwinthblack
> 
> Good luck with your consultation, I hope it goes well and you get the answers you want
> 
> So I realise every one here is at different stages of their surrogacy journey.
> 
> I'm feeling a bit anxious as I wait for ours to begin now. I'm not quite sure what sort of timescale we are working with and exactly when we may be in Ukraine for egg retrieval. I was ok with it for th last month, but started to get to me recently, especially as I can't plan things like time off work or christmas(I seriously have no idea when we wil be going). I guess I'm anxious to get things going and also nervous. The fact that my new account manager doesn't reply to me is not helping


Thank you a Lot! i just need to continue having some consultations on any kind of a treatment in my clinic. i feel relieved that there are so many of us who use biotexcom services that makes me glad because i really thought that i will be the only one who will go to ukraine for the ivf de treatment or even any kind of the treatment though..
What does your manager say about the possible dates?


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

She said that she doesn't know and it depends what the doctor says.

To be completely honest, I don't think we will know in advance. I think we will be told last minute to take the drugs and that we need to attend the clinic a few days later. We will have to make it work somehow and not plan anything. It sucks, but this is how it is. I just hope my husbands work will understand. I quit my job and started my own business last year because I didn't have the flexibility with my employer for our IVF treatments and investigations. Just hubbys work that will have to try and accomodat him now. 

How's everyone else getting on?


----------



## gwinethblack

*Stilltryingandhoping*, I knew that something like this can happen especially with such a treatment, but I will only have to travel to Ukraine for two times and it will be a precise scheduling for me judging by the protocol I will be given. So. I guess I will find a way to manage all of this. 
It's sad that you had to quit your job and everything but I am one of those who believe that everything is for the better. But you can travel there on your own (I know it sucks but still if your husband will have to stay at work, you will have a chance to go to the clinic by yourself though). Correct me if I'm wrong..


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi

Yeah I have no problem travelling there alone. He will need to come to give his sperm  sample though, so he will need to be able to take the time out. We will make it work somehow, it's just a little difficult to plan with very little communication. This is the situation as it is, and we will do what we can to make it happen.

I look for the positive in everything. My career was standing in th way of mybtreatment, so I carved myself a more flexible path. I'm blessed to be able to do that.


----------



## ruby100

Hi S - I'm really glad you managed to go self employed - can I ask what you do?  I'm considering leaving my job, it's just so stressful and I'm sure it's not helping anything.  DH is a teacher though so that's tricky too - goodness knows about after the baby is born and we're stuck in the ukraine for weeks and weeks.  I'm worried about when you have to send your passports off to the UK to get the baby's passport - how long do they keep your passports for? I mean how long are you both realistically going to be stuck in ukraine?  We're considering doing a flying visit in November just to check it out.  But I have a mega important visit to the IVF unit here on 8th November.  They're 'considering' letting me try IVF myself although I'm not convinced how good a chance I realistically have . . . .


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Ruby

I'm a wedding cake maker and started my own company doing that. Right now, I'm hesitant to take too many bookings anytime after July 2017 as the future is unclear. So it's really tough building up. Hubby works in finance so he gets very busy with his work! 

When we get to the stage of having a baby, it will be a welcome problem for us! I will stay there for the 3- 4 months, or however long it is(let's hope we don't have too many problems extending the 3 month visa for me) and hubby will fly back and forth. I want him to be there as little as possible so that if I have problems extending my visa, worst case would be that he is there with the baby then. I've heard that it's getting more difficult to be allowed to extend the visa past the 3months so we need to have some sort of plan in place.

I don't know about them having to keep our passports when we apply for the baby passport. I will have to find this out. I would presume people stay there because they have the baby to look after, and they can't take it out of the country. Not because they physically don't have their passports to be able to leave the country. 

Good luck with your visit. Do you want to be able to try the IVF or are you wanting to go for surrogacy?


----------



## ruby100

Hi S yep you definitely have to send your passports with the passport application - if you look on Gov.uk for a passport application that's what has to happen :-( I also wrote to the UK passport office as I've got a medical condition and need this weekly infusion so that's an added nightmare into the mix.

I hadn't heard that it was difficult to extend the visa beyond 90 days - argghh!  I can see your thoughts though on your husband being OK to cover that time if needed.  I think we would plan to swap around a bit too but I would be wary about being on my own as my health is not 100% and I wouldn't know anyone in the Ukraine if suddenly i had to go to the hospital etc!  I think therefore we'd do it with me and DH for a while (until passports hopefully back) and then I'd fly back leave DH there for a couple of week.  Then I'd fly back with my dad hopefully and then DH can fly home for a couple of weeks.  Does the visa weeks add up - is it 90 days in any one year?  I can't believe they'd not give you a visa though if you had a child - I mean they don't want responsibility for them do they??

Have you spoken to Natalie Gamble?  We've got a consultation booked in with her shortly.  I just want to get all this stuff straight in my mind before I embark on anything, but I do have 'added complications' to normal with my illness etc.

lovely that you're a Wedding Cake Maker - wow!  sounds amazing!  I work for a charity at the moment but also trained this last year to be a Reflexologist so could set up my own company doing that if I need to.  

Re IVF not sure.  I might give it a minor 'go' and then if it doesn't work move swiftly onto this as my alternative option.  It's so hard isn't it to know what to do for the best.  I've also got a UK surrogate too who was great last time and who might go again.  

Ruby x


----------



## Reptile Smile

Ruby, I can't find this on the overseas application advice, about sending your passport in.  Are you sure you're not looking at applications from the UK?  The embassy have told us they only need a colour photocopy of every page, and this doesn't even need to be notarised.


----------



## ruby100

I'll have another look but I did write to the UK Passport Office and ask and that's what they said!


----------



## ruby100

List of documents required when applying for a passport without registration in surrogacy cases
When applying directly for a passport without registration (only possible where surrogate mother is not married) you must provide these documents in original and accompanied by one set of photocopies. If the documents are in a foreign language they should be accompanied by a certified translation in English.
Please also consult Her Majesty’s Passport Office’s key document checklist.
￼￼
￼1. Completed passport application form. You can find the correct application form for the country you are applying in through the online overseas passport tool.
￼￼2. A completed payment authorisation form and two photographs of the child
(taken within the last month and consistent with UK passport photographic standards)
3. Documentary proof of the biological father’s British nationality other than by descent i.e being born in the UK or naturalised or registered as a British Citizen. The father will have to be eligible for British Citizenship in his own right and not just by descent from a parent. Examples of proof are long birth certificate/registration/naturalisation certificates.
4. Original passports of both commissioning parents.
￼￼
5. Evidence that you are the biological father. If after discussing the child’s application with HM Passport Office it is agreed that DNA evidence is needed, please note that we can only accept DNA test reports from UK organisations accredited by Her Majesty’s Court Service which are detailed on the UK Ministry of Justice website. The DNA sample will need to be collected in the presence of an officer from Her Majesty’s Passport Service or else a British Embassy or consular officer.)
￼
6. A surrogacy agreement on official headed paper. This should be signed by all parties and dated.
7. Document signed by the surrogate mother which confirms that the surrogate mother gives up parental responsibility and custody of the child. This confirmation should be witnessed by a Notary Public and can only be given by the surrogate mother after the child is born. You should seek legal advice about this. Please note: If this permission is given less than 6 weeks after the birth, you cannot later use it for an application for a parental order.
8. Child’s birth certificate issued by local authorities (please submit an original local birth certificate along with the English translation).
9. Photographs of the commissioning parents and the baby from birth to current time.
10.Antenatal medical reports and scans from the surrogacy clinic/hospital covering the entire duration of the pregnancy.
11. Letter from the Head Doctor at the surrogacy clinic setting out the details of the case.
12. Identity documents for the surrogate mother e.g. passports, identity cards, driving licence.
￼13. If the surrogate mother is divorced, provide the marriage certificate and divorce certificates/papers. (please submit original documents along with English translations, please note the translations must be notarised by a public notary).
OR
14. If the surrogate mother is a widow, then marriage certificate, husband’s death certificate (please submit original documents along with English translations, please note the translations must be notarised by a public notary).
OR
15. If the surrogate mother has never been married, then an affidavit stating that she is single (never married), along with documents to support this. In some
countries a Certificate of No Impediment (CNI) issued by the Civil Registry Agency may also be required.

/links


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## ruby100

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/477720/new_1.pdf

/links


----------



## ruby100

It says 'original documents and copies'


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## ruby100

This is WITHOUT registration which seems to be an easier way of approaching it.  But this is as long as the surrogate mother is unmarried and the biological father can prove the child is his.  Then he can be the official father in UK law and the baby/babies inherit their Britishness THROUGH him


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

surely you would take these in as originals,and they would check and copy them??

I mean, the surrogate would probably not want her marriage certificate/divorce certificate/husbands death certificate etc taken from her for 3-4 months. 

If anyone knows how this works, can you please advise.


----------



## ruby100

I know S, it all seems completely bonkers!  It's so tough, I've been trying to get my head round it for months.
As i say, I can't be left without my passport either as I NEED a lifesaving transfusion every week - I mean I could possibly go 2 weeks but that's all!!


----------



## Reptile Smile

Well, I've met with the embassy in Tbilisi, and they've said they need to see the originals, but they don't take them.  They don't copy them there and then - we have to supply the copies, and some need to be notarised and some don't.

Our daughters were born two days ago, so I'm waiting for the DNA test to arrive, and then for the results to come back next week hopefully, when we will book the appointment, so I'll be able to give a definitive answer then.  But they categorically have said they don't need to keep the originals.


----------



## ruby100

That's good RS - so does the UK passport office agree?  I've only got my info from the Gov.uk webiste (!) that says they need them and emailed HM Passport direct . . .  I wish they'd be clear about it!


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Thanks Reptile Smile

I wouldn't think they would take the passports. For a start, I think in Ukraine you have to carry your passport with you as a tourist. If police ask you for it and you don't have it, they can detain you. It contains your visa and proves your entitlement to be in the country. So it wouldn't. It make sense that they take it off you for months. 

It's definitely worth checking this out properly though, especially for you Ruby.


----------



## ruby100

This is from UK passport office see table 'C'
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/462247/OS_Guidance_Gp3_09.15.PDF

/links


----------



## Reptile Smile

Though that still says 'provide' which I still thinks 'show them but they don't keep'...


----------



## ruby100

So provide them via the Embassy?  The Embassy in Ukraine's website says it does not 'deal with' passports . . . . sorry so confused!


----------



## Reptile Smile

Well, I can only talk about Georgia.  I would be astonished if it was a very different priocess, but I can't say.

In Georgia, you have a meeting at the Embassy (well, an outsourced company who work on their behalf) to whom you give everything - forms, payments, evidence, the lot - and they put the application in for you.  You don't send anything directly to HMPO.  HMPO receive it from the 'embassy' and they send the passports back to the embassy from where you pick them up.


----------



## ruby100

Yes, quick check I can see it does say the same thing on Georgia's website as the Ukraine!  But clearly it's not true then - I mean they DO help with passport applications!
I've got an appt booked in with Nat Gamble in a couple of weeks to ask all these questions!
how are the twins RS?


----------



## Reptile Smile

The twins are amazing and very worrying.  They're in NICU, as they have been since they born, due to slight breathing issues related to not being squeezed through the birth canal (is fairly common), but even as a precautionary measure, NICU isn't an easy place, and it's not an easy place to be rational in.  I haven't had the chance to hold them yet, but that will come.

Just have to keep being positive, and being happy.  Our dream came true, and a few more days of patience is ok!

Thank you for asking xx


----------



## auroraflowers

Stilltryingandhoping said:


> Hi
> 
> Yeah I have no problem travelling there alone. He will need to come to give his sperm sample though, so he will need to be able to take the time out. We will make it work somehow, it's just a little difficult to plan with very little communication. This is the situation as it is, and we will do what we can to make it happen.
> 
> I look for the positive in everything. My career was standing in th way of mybtreatment, so I carved myself a more flexible path. I'm blessed to be able to do that.


When we had to come for the embryo fertilization and transfer and everything we had this opportunity for my dh to stay home and work and me flying to Kiev on my own. he would just take his sperm samples in the sperm bank and I would send it frozen to Biotex with all of the necessary docs. But it was easier to travel together, so that we could make sure that all is going well and as planned.


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Auroraflowers

Thank you. Did you send the sample via courier, or take it yourself? That's a good suggestion if we struggle. I think he will want to be there himself to be honest,although it's great to have a back up. Because I am having the egg collection surgery,I think DH will be worried and want to be at the clinic with me. We may just get him to come out a few days after, as they will just need me there to monitor the stimulation.


----------



## ruby100

RS - I cannot imagine how wonderful it is seeing your twin girls!  I'm so sorry they're still in NICU but as you say better to be safe than sorry.  Do you have any indication yet when they can be discharged?  I think any new parent would find the stay in NICU incredibly stressful.  How is Tbilisi - are you managing to find everything you need?  

Take care - treat yourselves kindly xx


----------



## Bella2016

RS- Huge congrats on the birth of your little girls!!           Hope they are doing well and wishing you all the best. 
Bella x


----------



## BobbiH

Congratulations on the birth of your twins Reptile Smile, we're all hoping they pull through and can finally travel home with you!


----------



## ruby100

I had a reply today from the Uk Embassy In Kiev - I thought some of this might be helpful . . . 

Thank you for your email.

I appreciate that you want to know the arrangements for your and your kid/s return to the UK prior to entering into any arrangements with the clinic.


Receiving a child birth certificate after the birth could take time. 

British passport

The British Embassy does not accept British passport applications. All applications and enquiries are dealt with by Her Majesty’s Passport Office in the UK.

You may find information about passport application overseas here. Parents need to submit all documents (originals and copies) (those from Surrogacy guidance and passport webpage) to the Visa Application Centre in Kyiv. Then the copies of the documents will be forwarded to HMPO for nationality determination and passport issuing and originals (including passports) will be retained by parents.

We were explained by HMPO that the passport processing could take at least 16 weeks in surrogacy cases and I am afraid you wouldn’t be able to speed up it unless specific circumstances require you or your child to travel to the UK urgently (written confirmation of which you would need to provide to HMPO). Thus all your supporting medical documents confirming the urgency for you and your child to return home would be of help.

If you have any questions about completing an application form, supporting documents, timescale for processing, countersignature, etc please speak to Passport Office Advice Line: +44 300 222 0000, online Enquiry. The status of your application could also be checked via contacting HMPO Advice Line (it might be useful to make a note of the application reference number for further communication with the HMPO).


Emergency Travel Document (ETD)

Unfortunately we cannot tell you in advance whether we will be able to issue an ETD for your child. ETD is issued for those who have had their British passports but have them lost / expired / unavailable. The first time applicants should apply for a standard passport first.

In case of an ETD application for the first time applicant (which is not a straightforward procedure) we would need HMPO’s nationality determination and ETD issuing approval. For this you will need to provide the same documents as for the standard passport application.

Request


Kind regards,

Viktoria Lvovska | Consular Section | British Embassy | 9 Desyatynna str, Kyiv 01901, Ukraine |


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Ruby

Thanks for that, it clarifies everything really well  

Yes, it looks like the passport application takes a long time, just as I thought. maybe in your cas, with your health condition, you could get it faster.

S xx


----------



## Reptile Smile

Yep, all as I said, I think, though it's interesting they're being quite explicit about 16 weeks.  When we had the meeting with TLS Contact, they though 16 weeks was quite pessimistic, and they thought it would be closer to 12.  I wonder whether it's TLS Contact in Kiev as well (they seem to operate in multiple countries).

PS Thanks to all for the good wishes - much appreciated.  One of the interesting things to note regarding timescales is that we haven't been able to put in for our passport application yet though it's a week tomorrow since birth, due to TLS Contact telling us a DNA test was mandatory.  As they've been in incubators so far, we haven't been able to do this yet, and I don't think it's imminent.  It wouldn't surprise me if it was another week before we can do the DNA test, and by the time it's couriered back to the UK and couriered back again, that's another two weeks - in other words, before we even apply, it could be 3.5-4 weeks since birth...


----------



## Denmommy

we've been approved with surrogate mother!    and even though i know absolutely nothing of who she is, i hope she is absolutely healthy to bear our pregnancy and that we'll be lucky with her. they will synchronize our periods and I'm starting my hormonal stimulation for eggs very soon. i'm extremely overwhelmed. i still keep posting in my surrogacy journey blog http://havingababyafterhysterectomy.blogspot.no/. in my last posting, i got in more details on how we signed up contracts with biotex. they have three and it's no easy to digest all those peculiarities and provisions of them all. i tried to explain mine and my dh's point of view as to this. i hope this info might be helpful to any of you, ladies

xx

/links


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

DenMommy that's fantastic. My first scan is 5 days after yours but I haven had no communication about them finding a surrogate or any indication of when I will start stimulation. I'm trying to get a reply from my manager about this and will see what she says. I don't know if it will take longer in our case as we need a surrogate who is single or divorced to make immigration if the baby possible. 

Keep us all posted with how you are getting on and feel free to ask about the drug stimulation  I enjoy your blog posts too btw!

S xx


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

And also, for anyone interested in following other people's journey, I have started writing about ours in the surrogacy diary section on this forum. Feel free to read and follow our experience !

S xx


----------



## Bella2016

Congrats Denmommy and good luck! I have read your blog and it is very informative! Thank you!

Stilltrying- can you send a link to your diary? 

Does anyone have an experience of going down the route of having an entry clearance visa for bringing the baby back to the UK?

Thanks. Bxx


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Bella here you go 

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=348892.0


----------



## artist_mum

hi

I've been reading this string tonight and just wanted to thank you all for sharing so much information on here and for the diaries (Denmommy and Stilltryingandhoping) which i've also read.

Wishing you all loads of luck and congrats to RS - I hope your little girls will be fighting fit and ready to come home with you as soon as possible.  

Best wishes to all

A-M x


----------



## Bella2016

S- thank you, I have just read it. You are one very tough lady!! This journey doesn't sound easy. I do wonder about the connection between signing the economy package contract and having that dodgy taxi to the airport. Also, have you tried to get a copy of the joint agreement with the surrogate's signature? I believe this will be needed as part of the documents for the parental order. And I read somewhere, think it was in the agreement itself, that there are 4 copies; one is for the IPs, one for the SM, one for the clinic and one for the notary. 

I have bookmarked your diary and look forward to reading more about your journey. Thank you for sharing. xxx


----------



## ruby100

Hi S

I read your blog too and out to my mum!  She's been quite against us going to the ukraine because of concerns over the security/health services/cleanliness/disease/crime/terrorism/mafia/war - I could go on!

However, having read your blog, Mum's now actively thinking about it which is great news.  I'm really sorry about your tough time too.  I suspect that any IVF I have is also incredibly unlikely to work (that's if they even let me attempt it - thus far blocked due to systemic illness)  - but I also have awful endometriosis - all my inner pelvic organs and bowel are scarred and stuck together (urgh).  

We are planning on visiting Kiev, Biotexcom etc at end of November so I'm going to watch your story too  we might even be out there at the same time! (ultimately!)

Take care

Ruby x


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi ruby

I'm glad it is useful to someone. I'm going to keep updating it so keep an eye out,and I'll keep it as accurate as I can.

Bella

I sent my manager an email saying that when we come to Ukraine next, I will need a copy of that. There would have only been our signature on there when we signed anyway as they would not have found a surrogate at that point. I will keep you posted and let you know how that goes, I can imagine they might be a bit difficult. 


I've go a hysteroscipy booked tomorrow, but I doubt they will find anything. Our situation has confused every doctor we have seen as we have unexplained implantation failure. Might as well rule out scarring now though! 

Keep me posted on what the clinic communicate with you.

S xx


----------



## Mummytwins

Hi ladies

I've been highly elated just by reading this string. I am not alone after all (Lol). I just wanted to thank you all for sharing so much information on here and for the diaries (Denmommy and Stilltryingandhoping). They are inspiring and you are all wonderful people!

I can see that almost all posts refer to Biotexcom. We had considered Biotexcom but unfortunately they have dropped off our radar because they were unable to provide a donor that matched us. We are now looking into Intersono clinic and La Vita Nova agency both based in Lviv, Ukraine. Has anyone used any of these organisations? Also has anyone used any other clinic in Lviv? If so, could you please share some information?

Wishing everyone loads of luck and congrats to RS - I hope your little girls pull through fast and you are able to take them home soon.  

Xx


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Mustbemum

I know that many people recommend this agency and clinic in Lviv. I came across a lot of posts about them all over the internt,so it may be worth googling and looking at some posts already out there. Also, there may be some information in the older Ukraine surrogacy post. This thread has seemed to steer towards BioTexCom because a few of us are using that clinic. I hope someone on here had some information about them to share as well  

S xx


----------



## ruby100

HI S

I hope your hysteroscopy goes ok today - good luck!  I haven't had one of those (yet!) because in my case my endo lights up like picadilly circus on the MRI scan I think they think they know 'the reason'. . . . 

Yes please do let us know all the steps for Biotexcom. . . . and I hope they are super-efficient and surprise you!

Take care 
Ruby x


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Thanks Ruby!

Well I had the hysteroscopy and also an endometrial biopsy. And it was excruciating! I've been in bed all evening, taken strong pain killers and made myself go to sleep. It was very painfully the hysteroscioy showed that everything looked normal, just as we expected. The biopsy will take 2 weeks to come back. 

I didn't expect to have the biopsy, or to be in so much pain


----------



## Mummytwins

Thanks S, for the info and encouragement.

I hope everything goes well for you too


----------



## ruby100

HI S

urgh poor you it sounds horrendous :-( I really hope that the pain dies down asap.  I remember how much pain I was in post EC and I wasn't expecting that either  - it's somehow worse if you're not expecting any pain!

Take care

R x


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Ruby

Yes feeling much better thanks. Still sore, but no cramping like I was having yesterday. The hysteroscopy was painful because I've got a bent uterus and getting a catheter in is usually a tricky job. This gynaecologist just kind of shoved it in, it was really painful. She said it hurt because I've got a very closed cervix as I've not had babies. The biopsy was the worst though, she did it twice and I was screaming and crying. The cramping lasted for hours afterwards. It was all done without anaesthetic, I'm so surprised they did it as an outpatient procedure with no pain relief. I started to walk out of the hospital straight afterwards and had cold sweats, and realised I may be going into shock, so I had to wait for DH to come and get me. Honestly, at that point I was thinking about this whole baby journey and thinking enough is enough. 

I'm glad that's the last of the checks for me, I've had enough of being poked and prodded. I still need to be stimulated and go through EC in the next few months in Kiev, so I'm actually dreading that now, but I have to get on with it.


----------



## Bella2016

S- Sorry to hear about what you went through yesterday with the hysteroscopy and biopsy... i hope you are feeling better.

I thought it would be useful to share with you all what response i got back from 'A' the coordinator at Biotexcom regarding how much compensation and payment the surrogate gets. She wrote:

_"As to the surrogate mother - of course she is compensated. But believe me, even if we would talk about just 200 euro - for Ukraine is an average school teacher's salary. So higher amount can be treated as a payment to a surrogate mother. Which is prohibited."_

I have been really trying to get her break this down for me, so that i have a better idea of how much the surrogate gets paid and what for, but she wouldn't budge. This is a big worry for me, as they haven't shown me that they are willing to cooperate and provide the necessary documents when the time comes. Also, S- reading that your coordinator is not responsive is not reassuring. I think you should ask for a new one, because this isn't helping your anxiety. Mind you, you are really bearing with it...I would have kicked off already.. 

Hope everyone else is ok. Bxx


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Bella

Yes feeling much better today, thanks 

From what I understand, the surrogate gets the 200 a month and also all her medical care provided, and health insurance.  So her payments will be given to her when she goes for her monthly Ultrasound check. I actually remember seeing the surrogates going for their pay, lining up and collecting it from the office. I know it was this because we paid out first instalment in cash in that same office, and they close the door when they are dealing with money. 

So,I imagine the 200 a month is to cover the surrogates expenses like clothes, travel and any loss of earnings for the days they take out to visit the clinic. For Ukrainian economy, 200€ a month is a standard wage I believe, so more than this would look to be a commercial arrangement. When I go to Kiev next, I will see if there is any way I can get a better break down. For example, does the surrogate get any extra when the baby is born? For her role in filling out and signing documents etc? 

As for the communication, is actively trying not to offend anyone at the clinic, it it is driving me crazy. I'm waiting until tomorrow and then sending another email. I wouldn't mind if there was any sort of response, even just a quick message saying that she will have an answer in a few days. But it's no reply what so ever. I hope the doctors ar better at what they do! 

S xx


----------



## ruby100

Hi Bella and S,

Thanks for sharing that B- between all of us we might actually work it all out! 😀

I don't understand why she says a payment is prohibited- as in Ukraine IS commercial- that's the whole point isn't it? I mean that's the reason the Ukrainian women will offer to be surrogates, it will be because of the compensation? I'm confused!

Re getting all the info so it's clear..... I wonder whether at the end they do just provide it.....? I asked for the info for the HFEA arrangement to courier my embryos but A said she could not give me the info as it is prohibited and she can only give the identifying info directly to the exporting clinic. I was a bit concerned about this but maybe it's cultural. I mean in the uk we expect everything to be transparent and there's very little we can't 'know' even if we don't understand it. I just wonder if that's different in the Ukraine??

Re getting the final paperwork etc. You do need to prove what you paid the clinic and what it covered for the court for the parental order. However, my understanding is that no court has yet refused to grant an order on the basis of too high compensation to a SM through an agency abroad as its in the best interests of the child to live with its U.K. Parents...... This is my understanding in any case......

I have an appt at the ACU on 8 Nov in London. I'm going to ask them if they've ever exported embryos to the Ukraine and costs involved etc. Just so next time I stimulate which will be in the uk I know I can send the embryos to the Ukraine. I just hope it's not prohibitively expensive or complicated!

Hope S is feeling a little better today

Ruby x


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Ruby

Whichever way it works, the €200 a month works out well for us as that will be enough to cover the surrogates expenses and not be over the top for compensation (in line with Ukrainian economy). Yes, I think the clinic will probably just give what we need, when we need it. Also, when the baby is born, I know I'll be there for 3/4 months so that's plenty of time to nag them in person to get this information. And I'm pretty persistent! 

In terms of the court, I think the most important thing is to show that you tried to get as much information as possible and were morally sound in making a decision to use a surrogate. All my emails and questions to the clinic are worthwhile,even if I get vague replies, because it shows that I tried to get as much information as possible and made sure the surrogate was being compensated. TBH when I was first told that surrogates get €200 a month, it worried me that they were being exploited. But I researched and found out that in that part of the world, it's reasonable. If it was much more, the argument would fall the other way and it could seem that we were buying her body/baby. Although no court had turned any parent away, it could mean a long and difficult court process.


----------



## Bella2016

Hi Ruby and S,

You both make very good and valid points. I accept that 200 EUR per months is in line with the Ukrainian economic and it's a decent 'wage', but what concerns me is that they won't disclose how much compensation on top of the monthly payment the surrogate will get after the baby is born, because it can't be that they only get around 2000 EUR for the whole thing and that's it. In the economy package it is stated that if the SM miscarries after 12 weeks, they get a 6000 EUR compensation, so I imagine that when the baby is born they get something, too. All we need to know is how much. 

I contacted a few other clinics in Georgia, Greece and Ukraine, and all of them disclosed in the beginning how much the SM would get and a couple of them even broke down the monthly payment in terms of meds, clothing, food etc and stated that after the baby is born the SM would get an additional 12,000 EUR. 

I think we should all pester them with emails regarding this, so that they would realise that people want to know land it's significant. 

Glad you are feeling better S. xxx


----------



## ruby100

I don't know it helps but for a uk comparison (I have got 'quite' far with U.K. Lovely SM just no baby 😢

We pay all travel, childcare at cost price 
There's a compensation £150 per transfer
After 12 weeks scan £300 per month to cover expenses 
Made up to maximum of £15000 upon baby's birth. 
In agreement is also miscarriage payments (so our 9w miscarriage was a £300 compensation for her D&C but we also paid all travel, childcare etc on top)
The miscarriage payments get more the later the miscarriage so it's £7500 at 30 weeks
I don't know how that equates to the Ukraine....
Biotexcom is also paying for all the IVF though and all the tests and technical and that's obviously a massive chunk of the money.
Maybe explaining to A that we need a breakdown for the PO application might help? I don't think though you'd have a long court battle with this clinic. It's not in the courts interest either. Have you discussed with a lawyer? I've got an appt booked with Natalie gamble where I've got 2h to ask all these questions and try and get it straight in my head!!

Hope you're both ok today x


----------



## Sharky

Girls, sorry to break into your conversation, but as I am Bulgarian, and we sort've passed through what Ukraine is going right now, I understand the clinics "secrecy" and will try to explain it to you. They probably give the surro-moms money (probably even in EURO) in cash in an envelope. They can't tell you, and they can't tell officially they are doing that, as this is tax avoidance.


----------



## Reptile Smile

Yeah, I'd feel pretty uncomfortable with this.  Just seems wrong nit to be transparent about it.

By way of comparison, with Georgia, its 300USD per month 'food' payment (quite a long of food, I guess... ;-) ) and then a lump sum of 13800 USD at the end. No brown envelops, no tax avoidance, totally transparent. What's going on with the Ukraine..?


----------



## Proud-Dad-of-Twins

It does not seem right to me. It makes me wonder how much compensation the surrogate mother receives and how much profit the agency makes. 

Our twins were born by a surrogate mother in Ukraine and they are now 1½ years old. We used La Vita Nova agency and Intersono clinic. We were very happy with them. And now in this thread it seems that everyone talks about Biotexcom, and no one mentions any other agencies. 

In our case, it was very transparent (as written in the contracts) how much money in Euros each party (the agency, clinic and surrogate mother) should be paid. We transferred the money directly into the surrogate mother's bank account each month. We felt good about the fact that she was not exploited and she was paid well. This was one of the reasons we considered Ukraine in the first place, not India or Thailand at that time.


----------



## Mummytwins

Hope

Thanks for this. I had wondered too why everyone on here is all about Biotexbom but I can understand they are popular. However, based on our own research (loads!), contacts with various clinics and agencies (loads!!) and inspired by your own positive experience, my DH and I have narrowed it down to La Vita Nova and Intersono. We will be making our first visit to Ukraine at the end of November.

Excited but a bit overwhelmed by this whole process.

I hope the twins are doing well?


----------



## Reptile Smile

The other thing to say here is that we had an appointment with a fab family lawyer in advance of starting the process (Harjit Sarang, who I've recommended to many on here - she's that fabulous combination of brilliant and very reasonably priced).

Her explicit advice to us was that we had to ensure we only made payments to our SM directly to her bank account, or else it could be a problem at the parenting order stage, in terms of evidencing what and how it was paid. Of course, this is only an issue for U.K. intended parents, but worth bearing in mind.


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi RS

I've not heard this before. I know my clinic doesn't operate like this and they pay the surrogate directly. I'm going to make sure I get the signed copy of the joint agreement with our chosen surrogate when we go to Kiev next, so we can use this for PO. It had details of how much the surrogate is paid.


----------



## Reptile Smile

Well, I hadn't come across it til I spoke to Harjit.  Have you spoken to a lawyer who will be acting for you regarding the PO yet?  (or are you representing yourselves..?)


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi RS

We got some brief legal advice but we will be arranging a proper consultation when we have a pregnant surrogate in the 2-3 trimester. I will want the advice closer to the time as anything can change between now and then,and also it will be fresh in our minds. I'll know what to take with me / need in Ukraine those 3-4 months. And I will also then know exactly what I need to make sure to get from the clinic. 

Bella/Ruby and anyone else who looked at BioTex

I got fed up and sent my manager an email a little while ago and got a reply within an hour. I basically said that I will need the joint agreement signed by the surrogate before we can make the second payment. Obviously that got their attention. She said we can have t before embryo transfer, but second payment is due on the day of egg collection(this is also stated in our contract). I have said I wil stay the extra days to recover and get the agreement before I leave. And that I will need it before I allow the embryo transfer.


----------



## Sharky

Intersono only allows surrogacy if the IP mom is up to 50 y.o. I will make 50 in 3 months, so if DH finally agrees us doing surrogacy I have no other choice but Biotexcom.


----------



## Bella2016

Hope4spring and Mustbemum- Are La Vita Nova and Intersono the same clinic? Do you have to pay them both or just one of them and they are partner agencies/clinics? Are there packages fixed prices as well and do they offer unlimited nr of attempts? Sorry for the questions, I have just not come across these clinics before.

S- I am so glad that you put your foot down with Biotexcom and it seems that they responded to that. There is no reason for them not to give the joint agreement to you, but the way they conduct their business is not right. They have caused you so much anxiety unnecessarily... Keep being assertive...  

Hoe are your little girls, RS? 

Hello to Ruby and everyone else, have a good weekend.


----------



## ruby100

Good afternoon all 

I'm having a lawyer session next week so will ask all the questions etc
Commercial surrogacy is NOT illegal in the uk..... That is something majorly misunderstood. Everything I know if that the welfare of the child comes first for the court. So ultimately even if you could not absolutely prove how many euros /dollars etc went to the surrogate the court is likely to find in your favour.  I've also heard the process is fairly straightforward and you don't need a lawyer (my dad and brother are lawyers btw)

You are appointed a caffcass officer who guides you through the entire process.

I don't anyone should be offended by the discussions re biotexcom on here.... Anyone free to discuss any clinic just a number of us were interested in biotexcom at the same time! For me the advantages are unlimited attempts and fully catered accommodation in a foreign country. However different couples may rightly prioritise other services within their arrangement. Everyone has to make a choice.

S I'm glad you put your foot down. I wonder why it's so difficult for them to do it? Have you asked them if they've found a SM for you yet? Maybe they choose quite last minute?

Hope everyone has a good weekend
R X


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Ruby

Yes I asked in my email about when I should expect to know about taking my depo shot to down regulate. My manager said that if I send my first scan over on sat 5th, the doctor will look at it on Monday and give further instructions. I did send a follow up email asking how finding the surrogate works then and if they have already. Obviously I haven't had a reply to this 😳 But I'm not at all surprised.

Yes the guarantee and the inclusion of accommodation and meals was also the reason we chose BioTex in the end. Other clinics would have been completely unaffordable to us, as the extras like accommodation and meals would have pushed it out of our price range. Not to mention, if we needed to try it a few times, we would have really struggled. 

Ruby let us know how it goes next week. I'll keep everyone posted on my progress too


----------



## BobbiH

Sharky said:


> Intersono only allows surrogacy if the IP mom is up to 50 y.o. I will make 50 in 3 months, so if DH finally agrees us doing surrogacy I have no other choice but Biotexcom.


Hello Sharky Biotexcom isn't the only other clinic that offer surrogacy to people over the age of 50. Try searching for one called ilaya, they also have a guaranteed programme


----------



## Reptile Smile

ruby100 said:


> Commercial surrogacy is NOT illegal in the uk.....


Not everyone reading this will understand this, and I'm not sure I do. Paying someone to act as a surrogate *is* illegal (except for reasonable expenses) - which is how most people would define a commercial relationship..? (https://www.gov.uk/rights-for-surrogate-mothers). /links



> So ultimately even if you could not absolutely prove how many euros /dollars etc went to the surrogate the court is likely to find in your favour.


As I've posted before, I've heard anecdotally that no case has been found against due to too much money, but I don't have any evidence or real source for this. Do you have a source for this? Don't get me wrong - I very much hope you're right!


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## Mummytwins

Bella - La Vita Nova is an agency who partners with some clinics of which the Intersono clinic is one. If you contact them, they would give you details of the clinics they work with and the different packages and prices that each clinic offers. Intersono offers unlimited package and also has very positive reviews so that informed our choice of the clinic. The payment is to the agency and they then pays the clinic what is due to them. There is a three way contract though - between the IPs and the SM, the agency and the clinic. The agency has been very communicative - almost like whirl wind! Getting Biotexcom to respond to our messages was a real challenge I must say and we just got frustrated in the end. But we do understand, they are vey popular and therefore very busy.

Ruby - "Offended" is a strong word. I don't think anyone is, or should be, offended regarding the discussions about Biotexcom. I think people were only trying to make other people aware that there are other options they can explore as you well know, people need all the information they possibly can get in other to make the difficult decision in what is already a very difficult journey.

Good luck to everyone


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## ruby100

Offended isn't a strong word lol 
I thought people were a little bit and I was trying to reassure them that it just so happened that way. I think we are all aware of other options and indeed most of us have researched many before we got to this stage. I also know some people have committed to various clinics and have made their best decision. Somehow making them feel it's unethical is, IMHO, a bit tough :-(

RS I will check my facts ASAP but I'm sure commercial surrogacy is not illegal it's the other bits of it that are. But I will check. However I found this article whilst perusing the Internet. I thought it were very interesting as it describes cases of PO from a caffcass perspective

https://www.cafcass.gov.uk/media/257188/intranet4cafcass/DavWWWRoot/ce/policy_team/Shared%20Documents/Research/Cafcass%20research/2014-15/Surrogacy/Study%20of%20parental%20order%20applications%202013-14%20(internet).pdf. /links

I think it demonstrates many things but that ultimately it is and right so the welfare of the child that is the most important principle for the UK courts. It also showed the range of costs with the US being very expensive. Moreover, in today's world the US is EVEN more expensive than the uk and the compensation paid to surrogates exceeds the notional £15,000. Unfortunately there wasn't any POs from surrogacy in the Ukraine in these years.

I hope it's helpful  and I'm really glad the twins are doing well

R x


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## ruby100

There's also this one .....
http://www.familylaw.co.uk/system/froala_assets/documents/27/Surrogacy_in_the_UK_report.pdf. /links

And I think I'm confused about the term commercial sorry about that. It's a myth about something and I can't remember what &#128563;&#128563;&#128513;&#128514;


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## Reptile Smile

Good shares there, Ruby - thanks for that. The CAFCASS one in particular, though maybe out of date now, had lots of "ooh, didn't know that!" moments. Nice one.


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## Proud-Dad-of-Twins

My comments about surrogate mother compensation was not meant to "offend" anyone here or make anyone feel "unethical". I think the surrogate mother plays the most important role in the surrogacy process and deserves to be recognized for her work and gets adequately paid!

Our surrogate mother was very committed during the surrogacy process. She took good care of herself and the babies during the pregnancy. Our twins were born vaginally at almost 35 weeks and it was a smooth natural birth. They were healthy at birth and didn't need to spend a single day or night at NICU. Now as 1½-year old toddlers, they are doing really great! They are healthy, intelligent, beautiful, happy, joyful, naughty, playful... we couldn't ask for more!

As prospective parents, it is in your own best interest that your surrogate mother gets paid well, feels motivated and wants to do her best during the pregnancy and deliver healthy babies for you. Even after the birth of your babies, she cooperates to finalize the legal part so that you can bring your babies home.


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## Mummytwins

Good info, Hope4Spring. Thank you so much for sharing your experience.


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## Bella2016

Morning everyone, hope you all had a good weekend. 

Mustbemum and Hope4Spring- thank you for all the info about Later Vita Nova and Intersono. I contacted La Vita Nova and they sent me info about all their packages and surrogacy contract. So far I really like the agency/clinic, though I will have to find out about hidden costs. I know that accommodation and food aren't included in their packages, but they seem to be quite affordable in the Ukraine. 

Can I ask you both if you paid an extra fee to the La Vita Nova agency on top of the total cost of the unlimited program or was their fee included in it? 

Ruby- thank you for those articles you posted. I read the second one this morning, which was very interesting. One thing shocked me though was how much the legal aid cost for IPs who used international surrogacy. 

Can I ask those who used a UK based lawyer and went to Ukraine for surrogacy how much did you pay approximately to lawyers in total? 

Thank you. 

Bxx


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Ruby

Thanks for the links, I've just been reading through them. The Cafcass report is interesting. 

Bella

We are budgeting about 5k for legal fees, just because it's better to be prepared. Lawyers are expensive, and you never know how complicated a situation can get. 


Hope for spring/mustbemum 

It's great to get some people talking about the other clinics/agencies in this thread too. I know a lot of people are interested in looking around before making up theor mind,so it's good to have people who are actively involved in that. I agree that the surrogate is very important and needs to be looked after. Personally, I made sure I asked how our clinic looks after their surrogates before I even entertained any other discussion. Because I will be so far away, I need to make sure she and the baby will be looked after and supported. With international surrogacy especially, this is so important. Because we are not there to support them. 

I understand why people want to pay the surrogate directly rather than an agency or clinic. The reason we chose a clinic to deal with it is because we heard of cases where Ukrainian surrogates blackmailed couples who had contact with them directly. I honestly can't remember who/where I found this information as we researched extensively quite a few months ago. 

There's a pro and con for both ways I guess. Something like international surrogacy takes a lot faith and trust. There are things that can go wrong with any process. 

S xx


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## Stilltryingandhoping

By the way, does anyone have any idea of what NICU costs average in Ukraine? I've tried to find this out for a while but coming up blank


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## BobbiH

It can be quite expensive, that's why some clinics provide insurances for that eventuality. If I remember right it could cost about 5,000€ a month but I'm not 100% sure.


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## Proud-Dad-of-Twins

Bella: 

Unlimited packages are a new thing offered by several agencies in Ukraine since last year aimed to be more competitive. When we started the surrogate process in spring of 2014, there was no such offering. Luckily we didn't need it, since everything went quite well. It took only 10 months from when we signed the contracts to when we got the twins. And another two months to finalize the legal parts so that we could bring the twins to our home country. 

In total less than 12 months from start to finish! The total costs from start to finish were around EUR 45000/USD 50000, including everything, such as payments to the agency, clinic, surrogate mother, maternity hospital, legal fees in Ukraine (plus some small costs in our home country), travel expenses (we visited Ukraine 3 times) and living costs (we stayed in Ukraine in the last two months after the birth of our twins, rented an apartment in the city center and even hired a nanny to help take care of the twins), all flight/train/taxi expenses. 

Yes accommodation and food are very affordable in Ukraine, they are extra costs not included in the contracts, also it's quite cheap to pay for services. Coming from an expensive country in Europe, Ukraine was a bargain for us. If you pay more you get better standard. For us with small babies, our main concern was comfort and convenience, so we were willing to pay more, and actually it didn't cost that much. 

Regarding hidden costs or extra fees, we didn't pay anything that's beyond what we had agreed with the agency, clinic and surrogate mother in advance. The agency was good at communicating the necessary costs. The only thing that we didn't know how much it would be (in advance) was medical costs related to the surrogate mother when she needed to stay at the hospital at later stages of pregnancy.  

Stilltryingandhoping:

When the agencies offer competitive unlimited packages, they tend to cut their surrogate mothers' compensation in order to reduce costs and increase profits, especially so when the clients do not pay directly to the surrogate mothers and there is no transparency (as written in the contracts between the surrogate mothers and the clients). The agencies will always promise to look after the surrogate mothers. How do you ensure that your surrogate mother gets paid adequately and will not be exploited by the agency? Do you really believe that your agency will look after your surrogate mother if they pay your surrogate mother poorly and if your surrogate mother is not happy with how much she gets paid?  

We made payments to our surrogate mother directly and we informed our contact person at the agency about the payments each time, so the agency acted like a neutral 3rd party observer to ensure that the client and the surrogate were following what has been agreed in the contracts. We even sent some extra money to our surrogate mother after we came home since we really appreciated what she had done for our family.


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hope4spring

I understand what you are saying. For me, I noticed how busy the clinic was,not just with clients, but with Ukrainian women applying to be surrogates and egg donors. This was obviously a stand out sign for me. If the clinics reputation was as such that they did not look after their surrogate/donors, it would not always be so busy.  We will also be able to meet our surrogate after 12 weeks of pregnancy at any of the monthly scans and speak to her. This means we can check ourselves that she is happy. And lastly, we don't pay the clinic, all in one sum. We pay in instalments. So if the surrogate is not happy with them and does not come in for her scans for any reason, they won't get all the money from us. They will lose out on thousands of pounds, because we won't pay until we know everything is as it should be. 

Weighing all this up, I feel  ok about using this particular clinic. 

Don't get me wrong, I know where you are coming from. When we get to the end, I plan on gifting the surrogate with some extra reimbursement also because I will be eternally grateful. But this will be once I have the birth certificate with mine and my husbands name on it, and she has signed the relevant papers to give up parental responsibility. 

S xx


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## Proud-Dad-of-Twins

Just read a recent article about the costs of surrogacy in Ukraine:

https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/ukraine-can-become-top-destination-surrogacy.html

_Since the crisis hit Ukraine's economy and the war with Russia broke out in 2014, more Ukrainian women consider surrogacy as a solution to their financial difficulties. A surge in supply on surrogate maternity market in Ukraine has dragged down prices._

_According to Olga Georgievskaya, director of a Kyiv-based surrogacy agency Mama Help, in the last two years the number of Ukrainian women willing to become surrogate mothers increased significantly which led to a drop in compensation rates. Today a surrogate mother services cost on average $12,000 - 14,000 compared to $16,000 - 18,000 in 2013._

/links


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## Stilltryingandhoping

That's an interesting article. It doesn't surprise me, the economy in that country had plummeted so much in the last few years . All salaries in jobs have gone down and lots of people are moving away from the east(can you blame them). 

Atleast we know that if we spend money in that economy, the people receiving it can really use it. 

Hope for spring 
You've shared the article, what's your take on it?


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## ruby100

Good evening
Hope which agency /clinic did you use?
I've heard from A at biotexcom that they pay the Surrogate Mum's 200 Euro per month and they sign an affidavit for this.... I don't know whether they get a final payment surely they do. A also told me on this basis none of the U.K. Couples have had any issues getting a PO etc 

I just don't know what to think.....


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## Mummytwins

To add to the explanation already given by Hope4Spring, as you all know, the surrogacy "market" has become very competitive, therefore La Vita Nova agency partnering with Intersono clinic now offers unlimited package at 29,000 euro (this includes unlimited ivf attempt until pregnancy is achieved but excludes accommodation and medical costs). They also offer another package they call the all-inclusive package which in addition to unlimited ivf also includes accommodation and medical expenses for mother and child and it costs 34,700 euro.

They pay the surrogate mother 300 euro per month from the first month of pregnancy till child birth. This is maintenance cost which they would give you two options: Option 1 is to pay the total sum, that is 300 euro x 9 months up front to the agency who will then make monthly payments to the surrogate. Option 2 is to provide you the surrogate mother's bank account and you make the monthly payments directly to her account. Then after delivery and collection of birth certificate, you pay the final lump sum of 13,000 euro to the surrogate mother. This is to compensate her for the pains of child birth and to help her get her life back following delivery.

As Hope4Spring has also stated, there are no hidden costs that you would pay other than what the agency would have already told you that they are not included in your package. They are very transparent in my opinion.

The best way to get more up to date information is to contact the agency directly. They are very good at responding quickly and in detail to queries.

Very best of luck to everyone


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## Mummytwins

Bella - no there is no extra fee to the agency. Their fees are already included in whatever package that is specified.


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## Proud-Dad-of-Twins

My comments on the article that I shared: 

I think in addition to the economic crisis, the competition among surrogate agencies is a main factor leading to the drop in surrogate mother compensation. In order to get more customers, many agencies are now offering unlimited packages which have forced them to find ways to cut costs, and the easiest way is to cut compensation to the surrogate mothers when many poor women want to join. This is not much different than factory owners in 3rd world countries cut the wages of their workers to lower costs and increase profits when many people want to get a job. 

However, the fact that some desperate women are willing to accept USD 9000 to 11000 to become a surrogate mother does not mean it is acceptable and you as the client should feel OK about it. One of the reasons why India, Nepal, Thailand have banned surrogacy for foreigners is due to the risks of exploitation of poor women by some agencies and their clients. 

As I wrote earlier, as prospective parents, it is in your own best interest that your surrogate mother gets paid well, feels motivated and wants to do her best during the pregnancy and deliver healthy babies for your family. When a desperate poor woman accepts USD 10000 to be your surrogate mother, she won't be happy because she knows that other surrogate mothers get USD 15000, she will most likely save money on her food and she won't be very committed to take good care of herself and your babies, and then you'll know the consequences. 

As a parent to twins born by a surrogate mother, I feel deep gratitude to her who made our dream come true. I think we helped each other: she brought our kids to this world and we helped her to live a better life financially. We feel that we have a good conscience by knowing she's paid well and she's not exploited. Also by doing surrogacy in Ukraine we bring money into the country and we wish the best for Ukraine and its people since we're forever connected to this country - the birth country of our children. 

Ruby: we used La Vita Nova (agency) and Intersono (clinic), our twins are 1½ year old now.


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## Bella2016

Hope4Spring and Mustbemum- Thank you so much for the info on the clinic and your experiences, it's v helpful. 

Mustbemum- I have been communicating with someone at La Vita Nova clinic, who has been absolutely brilliant at getting back to me within a few hours of each of my email. In my last email, I asked 14 questions and all of them were answered within 2 hours. 

However, I seem to have some different information about the packages they offer. I was offered the Unlimited Package for trying with own eggs for 29,000 EUR, which excludes the accommodation, but I was told that all other medical costs are included. However, I was told that I wouldn't qualify for this, because I am over 35 years of age. 

I was not sent any info about the all-inclusive package with accommodation, I was told that none of them include the accommodation. 

I was also offered the donor egg Unlimited Program for 34,000 EUR with as many attempts as needed, which doesn't include the accommodation, but does include medical costs, as far as I understood. 
There is an All -inclusive donor egg package for £37,900 EUR, but that doesn't include accommodation, either. It includes PGD services. I asked about PGS and was told that unless we have genetic diseases, they don't recommend us having it done, as it can damage embryo quality. 

With regard to the payment to the surrogate mother, this is the response I got:

"All the money due to a surrogate mother in the course of the whole program period is a part of any cost package. 
Although since you are interested I can tell you that she gets around the following: 
7000 EUR - main compensation amount 
250 EUR - monthly payments ("food money") during pregnancy period, adding up to £2250 EUR; 
1000 EUR - single-time payment for clothes; 
1000 EUR - bonus payment after successful completion of the program" 

These seem to be different from the information you have. I wonder if it is because these info came from the La Vita Nova agency and perhaps Intersono has slightly different packages? I got a bit confused today, as someone emailed me from the Intersono clinic, too, asking me which surrogacy package I was interested in and she could send me the documents. I don't understand why they would send them separately if I am already in contact with La Vita Nova. I will need to clarify this with them tomorrow. Mind you, I did email both on Friday morning and La Vita got back to me within an hour or two and Intersono got back to me today. I didn't expect an email from Intetsono, as I thought they were aware of me communicating with La Vita already....  

xxx


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## Mummytwins

Hi Bella

Apologies if you had conflicting information regarding the costs. The information both me and Hope4Spring have may be a bit outdated as due to competition the agencies/clinics tend to review their pricing. This was why I said the best way to get detailed up to date information was to contact them directly.

I agree with you. I am also above 35 and therefore they also told me I was not qualified for the unlimited program based on that. But there were other conditions too, e. g. AMH, ovarian reserve etc and I knew I wasn't going to be deficient in these other areas so I pushed for them to consider my test reports in these other areas as I was sure that I still had the body of ermm...less than 35 years old  

To clarify, La Vita Nova and Intersono are not joined in the hip, if I may use the expression. La Vita only uses Intersono for the IVF part of the program only which is just a small part of the whole process; hence their pricing and Intersono's may be different when you are looking at the whole surrogacy program. I did exactly what you did - contacted both of them and got totally different costs but the agency's costs seemed to be more appealing so we decided to go with the agency rather than the clinic.

I am sure that La Vita told me (and it was clearly stated in the price list they sent me) that their "all-inclusive" donor egg package for 37,900 euro includes accommodation and other extras (not meals) which is why it is called "all-inclusive". You may want to check this again with them if you are considering this package. I guess this is where the Biotexcom appeal comes because Biotexcom includes accommodation and meals in all their packages which is brilliant. But we considered all options based on our personal circumstances and decided that the agency was the best way for us.


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## Bella2016

Mustbemum- Thank you for your post, I will definitely check what the all-inclusive package includes and I will also need to ask them about what sort of medical costs are included in the packages, as it's unclear. I will let you and others know what they say, as it would be interesting to compare what different clinics offer. 

I will also have to ask Intersono to send me their packages, so that I can compare those with the packages that La vita offers. There is so much to think about and the more I read the contract, the more questions I have... It's never ending.. I just hope that they can bear with me.. 

Thank you for all the useful information, it's very helpful, as it gives me a better insight and helps me to come up with even more and cleverer questions.   

xxx


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## chloe.v

Hello ladies. Thank you so much for your replies and such heartwarming words. Yea, I definitely will look through those posts. I've already read through some threads about clinics abroad. But they are so messy...
It seems that clinics in Georgia and Ukraine are the most popular. But I don't know which one to choose. There are Isida, New Life, Biotexcom, but they all have good reviews and I don't know which one to choose. Maybe some people could share their stories and experience?


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## Bella2016

Hello everyone, hope you are all well.

I thought i'd let you know that both Intersono got back to me with the packages they offer and their prices. I am shocked to be honest, because they are more expensive than any other clinic I have contacted before. 
Their basic package with donor eggs is for 2 attempts is 39,660 EUR and the guaranteed package is 54,900 EUR, but on top of both the additional expenses are:

- Twins compensation - 6000 EUR on 12th week of pregnancy,
- Lawyer expenses,
- Neonatal care (in case of premature delivery),
- accommodation for SM - 350 EUR monthly - starting from 20th week
- maternity clothes - 200 EUR - 20th week of pregnancy

As opposed to this, La Vita Nova offers an all-inclusive package for 37,000 EUR with everything included, apart from neonatal care. Accommodation is also included in this and so is PGD. Their unlimited package is 34,000 EUR, but that does not include accommodation and PGD, but does include legal fees and all medical costs, apart from neonatal care.

I wonder why they have such differences in their packages and why it is that going through an agency (La Vita Nova) would be less expensive than going through the clinic (Intersono) directly. Well, at least that makes it easier to know which one to go for!

Bxx


----------



## Proud-Dad-of-Twins

Hi Bella, 

Intersono's packages are not really comparable to La Vita Nova's packages since they don't really cover exactly the same things. 

Intersono is the leading IVF clinic in Eastern Europe and one of the best IVF clinics in Europe. Intersono mainly focuses on fertility treatments and does not need to lower its prices to compete with other surrogacy agencies. Some surrogacy agencies in Ukraine and other countries refer their clients to Intersono for IVF procedures because of the latter's high success rates. 

Meanwhile, La Vita Nova specializes in surrogacy programs (without its own IVF clinic) and has to compete with many other surrogacy agencies in Ukraine, Russia and Georgia for customers. La Vita Nova partners with Intersono and offers competitive packages, with price levels similar to other surrogacy agencies.


----------



## ruby100

Hi All

I also have contracts and answers now from La Vita Noce and Intersono as well as Nadiya

Lots of reading and soul searching still . . . 

How is everyone else doing?

S - how are you?  Do you have a date yet? 

Ruby x


----------



## ruby100

S - I've private messaged you x


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Ruby

Not had a message from you

I have my scan today and sent that to my manager. So i hope to hear back on Monday about a date to have my depo injection. Stimulation, I would imagine, would be a few weeks after that. I will keep you posted.

S xx


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## ruby100

Hi S - I've messaged you again a 'test'!  If you go to the top of the screen 'messages' and 'read messages' that's where I can find mine?

I hope you get a good response asap to your scan that you've sent - and stims and EC look nicely on the horizon!  exciting!

Ruby xx


----------



## ruby100

Hi S - thanks got your reply and have sent another message - thing is I"m not sure if I don't 'BCC' you whether it works so pls let me know if it's got through! Ruby x


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## Denmommy

Bella2016, very interesting information. Yeap, it seems that some things regarding surrogacy prices in Ukraine got no logic. It’s quite strange that agency offers lower prices than the clinic itself. Obviously, they have other more cheaper clinics to deal with. 
My DH decided that we won’t go with any intermediaries. Besides, it was no problem to contact clinics directly. They all have English speaking staff/managers. It seems to me now that biotexcom’s surrogacy packages are yet the cheapest and comprise more covered fees by the contract. We have signed for 39k contract. It covers most of the mentioned, plus accommodation, transportation, meals, legal and all medical expenses (including prenatal care and PGD), pediatrician, and even a baby sitter and housemaid. We only pay in case of twin birth (3k euro). As to the number of attemps – two on our own and unlimited on donor’s eggs


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## lotus123

Dear All,

I'm new here..And I also interested in surrogacy...unfortinetly.
I'm happy that I've found this forum, but I'm two kinds of feelings - happy that I've found so many peaple who know and has experience in this theme, but on the other hand - doubt that all positive posts are real and aren't from clinics agents.

I've fount that a lot of from this forum had/has/going to have experiense with Ukrainian clinic Biotex.
I also is interested in this clinic - program surrogacy. I would really really appriciate if somebody would give me real review about this clinic - good or bad but real her/his experiense... especialy bad...I doubt - is it realy so easy to become parents of your baby in this clinic via their provided programs "All included". Sounds too good to be true.Also I'm interested in choice of packages - Economy (29900 eur) or Standart (39900eur) because for us these sums are rather huge.The main differences of these packages (for me) are:-In case of premature birth - charges Clinic/or Parents -Pediatrian services (if I'll select Economy - nobody without additional fee do not check a baby and do necessary actions as it do in all maternital hospitals with newborns?) -In case of miscariage/abortation/death of the child after 12 weeks - compensation to a surrogate mother 6000 eur. -PDG test in Standart.If I select Economy package - attitude to me also will be economic and choice of surragatmother as well? The result will be the same? Will be any additional payments (except airplane tickets to Kiev )?How many months is needed to wait the second visit (embrious transfer)? It depends on kind of selected package?Have you paid any additional fee for something alse in this clinic and program?Do the clinic send all results of tests and scans of SM during pregnancy?How many time you were in Kiev during the last visit afted dilivery of SM?Is it possible to do any changes in their agreements?Thank you in advance for any information about this clinic and servicies!!!!I'm so afraid of all it!!

I've never think about surrogacy and any other such ways... I was healthy until the delivery of my 2nd baby...but due to uterine rupture...my baby has died some months ago...my little lovely boy... and now I haven't uterine...so I can't be pregnant...

So now surragacy is the only way to have one more baby...my baby..

So I'm happy that I've found such way and clinic...but of course I'm afraid and I need to choose the package... but for as these are huge sums, so I'll wanted to chose for 29900 eur Economy package..but afraid that everything will be econom...and I'm afraid of bad news - death/pathology/ of baby/disease/prematurity...


----------



## Dory10

Hi Lotus123

Welcome to FF  

I'm sorry for your loss, loosing a baby is truly heartbreaking.  You'll find lots of support and info from members who have cycled in Ukraine in the past, are currently or plan to in the future.  However for the finer details it is always advisable to contact the clinic directly for the most up to date and accurate information for your particular circumstances.  Things change so quickly in the fertility world that information and prices can quickly become out of date.

Good luck in your journey 

Dory 
Xx


----------



## lotus123

Dear Dory10,

Thank you! Yes, I need exactly support and I can't deal I have no one to communicate on this subject in my country...

I've already contacted with Nadia (manager?) and signed up for a visit at the end of December and event bought tickets to Kiev.
But I still afraid about all of it and I can't say that I like communication (quality and speed of response) and still can't decide which to choose the contract (Econom ar Standart)... 
I also still think that it can be cheat


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Lotus123

Here's a link to my surrogacy diary. It's in the diary section of fertility friends, but I'll add the link for you. It's an honest account of my experience with BioTexCom so far, good and bad.

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=348892.0

I should be starting my stimulation in a couple of weeks, and be there for the first 2 weeks of December , when I go for egg collection. We have chosen economy surrogacy package, but we did find it difficult to decide between exknomy and standard. I hope it works for us!

Good luck!
S xx


----------



## Bella2016

Hope4spring- thank you. That makes sense. I have been communicating with La Vita Nova and they have been ever so helpful in explaining everything to me so far. However, I do have a lot of questions and have emailed the contract administrator with new questions like 3-4 times. I read the contract in detail last weekend and there were a few contradictions in there with what I was told in emails. I pointed this out and got a rather quite condescending email today saying that 'I was told not to focus on the figures, as it was a sample contract only'. 
Anyway, I don't feel so comfortable emailing them with 'silly' questions now. In your experience, what extra costs were involved that I should be aware of, which the package you chose did not cover? Thank you. 

Denmommy - thank you for your post. Yes, it is quite strange, because the agency's partner clinic is the same clinic called Intersono, whose prices are twice as expensive. I have been communicating with both the clinic and the agency directly. But Hope4spring explained well above why this difference in prices is. 
La Vita Nova also offers an all inclusive package for 37,400 EUR, which includes everything that your package for 39,900 EUR with Biotexcom includes, apart from meals and a babysitter. But accommodation, transportation, all legal and medical expenses, PGD, paediatrician and interpreter's services and as many tries as needed are included. They would also provide documents with a breakdown of how much the surrogate gets paid, which is also included in the contract and they also provide unmarried/divorced surrogates. At the moment, we are choosing between Biotexcom and La Vita Nova, but I quite like the latter so far. But who knows what will happen. 
I follow your blog, which I find very helpful. Thank you. 

Lotus- I am so sorry for your loss. That is heartbreaking to even read, I can't imagine what you must have gone through. Have you been reading Stillyrying's diary and Denmommy's blog? They are both very helpful, as provide useful and helpful info about surrogacy in Biotexcom, regarding both the economy and standard packages. 

Stilltrying- I read your diary. Very exciting times for you!! Let us know how you get on. 

Hello to everyone else.   Bx


----------



## lotus123

Dear *Stilltryingandhoping*, than you. I've read you diary 2 times 
I hope that you aren't paid clinick agent  
Thank you for you diary. I hope that everything will be super!
How are you filinf after the first injection?
What name of your manager? Anastasia or another one?
Haw many day you were in Kiev in September?
Why you were needed to do hysteroscipy ans biopsy now?
If I correct understood Clinic has foud you SM nad embrio transfer will be don in Decemer, am I wright? First stimulation injection was don on the 7th November, yes?
Have you received answer from clinic about estimated payments in case of premature birth with Economy agreemant?
Do you know can you decide how many embryos implanting or this can dicede only doctor?
Hasn't you regret yet that you signed Economy agreement but not Standart?
When are you going to Kiev next time and how many days you will be there?
(sorry for so manyquestions)

*Denmommy*, thank you for your diary too. Aren't you the same person on another forum colled Rasteny?
How are you filinf during stimulation? When are you going to Kiev next time and how many days you will be there?


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Lotus123

Ok, wow that's a lot of questions  (it's fine , I was the same)

Firstly, I'm definitely not a Ukrainian agent. I'm a 34 year old British Asian woman who talks a lot and bakes cakes as a career 🎂 but I do understand your concern. I am actually just as skeptical as you, and have even found people posting on these forums to have fake social media accounts with very few friends. And the friends they do have are obviously other fake accounts. It's a little dissuading. In all honesty, I think I am one of the very very few British people using Biotexcom for surrogacy at the moment. 

So Anastasia did message me back for all my questions before I started, but she was not there for my first visit. She said she is in Scotland at that time. I wonder if she is ever in the clinic or just works remotely to bring in customers. My manager is a pregnant lady called Lida. She is nice, just sometimes a little slow to answer my emails. 

Our first visit in September was for a long weekend. We got there very late on a Thursday night, went to the clinic on friday. I had to go for extra tests, so we went back to clinic on Saturday,and left on Sunday. 

I had the hysteroscopy as a last resort to make sure it did not find anything. My case is quite different from other peoples because no doctor can find a reason for Ivf not to work. It was just one final check that I wanted to get done before we officially started our surrogacy. 

I have not received estimation about premature birth costs. I don't know how much the NICU costs are in Kiev, but I will ask this in person when o go in December. If I try to email, I porobsbly won't get an answer easily.

I don't regret choosing economy yet, maybe if we have a surrogate that gets pregnant with twins. Then I might start to worry. But it will all be happy problems for us to deal with  as far as I am aware, they usually want to put 3 embryos into the surrogates. But the doctor decided this. 

So... on 7th it was an injection to down regulate. It's not stimulation. I am having long protocol so first they shut down my ovaries and put my body in a temporary menaupause state. I will go for a scan in 21st and if all is well, I should be at the clinic on 28th. My egg collection can be anytime between 5-9 December (or maybe different depending on how my body reacts) and I plan on staying an extra 5 days so I can get the joint agreement signed by the surrogate. So although most people stay maybe 2 weeks for this second visit, I plan on being there maybe 2 1/2 weeks. I won't know if these dates are accurate until 21st when I have my scan results sent to the doctor and she confirms. So I won't book flights until 1 week before going. 

I hope this answers your questions. I am just beginning with this clinic, so I can't really give you much more.  But I will keep updating my diary so you can follow my journey. Anastasia is the best person to ask all the questions about specifics, and it is ultimately your decision about which clinic or package. Because each person has very different circumstances. 

S xx


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## lotus123

*Stilltryingandhoping,*Thank you for your reply! Cakes - very interesting and tasty job!

Lida...hmmm...I can't find her on clinic site.
I have Nadya... and I don't like how she answers... I still waiting her answer the 3rd day. Yes, this is nor urgent question, but I've wrote her email and via Viber...and nothing... Interesting - all of managers are the same? Because I'm afraid that when I need something urgently I might not recived answer in time...  Can I ask to change my manager or this is senselessly?

It would be grate if you receive some aprox sums of NICU & peadiatric costs in Kiev and deal with us/me with this usefull information  
I'm afraid of 3 embryos transfer... If all of them will survive 

Oh...this injection not yet stimulation? I'm don't understand anything in this theme... And I hope no to know everything and everything will heppen from the first time...

Thank you for so detailed answer. God luck!!! I hope you will receive good news from clinic about confirmation of SM pregnance when I visit clinic at the first time


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Lotus123 

I did find it about paediatrician cost. Anastasia said that even if you sign standard agreement, the checks by the paediatrician are free every other day. But you have to pay for any medicine. With economy, you can still use a paediatrician, but the cost is €15-20 euros each time. 

Yes I will let you know about the NICU costs. I think it will be a very vague answer because i guess it depends on what equipment they will need:if they need to do any special procedures like operations. But I will try to get some answers.

I tried to ask Anastasia If we can have another manager who is good at communicating when Lida leaves for maternity leave. But she will only go for 1 month, and Anastasia said she will speak to her about communication. To be honest, I think they are all like this because they are so busy at the clinic. So for me, I would rather build a relationship with the manager I have and after time she may understand that I need some sort of response to calm me, rather than no answer because she doesn't know. I don't know who Nadia is, they must have a lot of managers. Will you be using an English speaking manager? What country are you from? 

S xx


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## lotus123

*Stilltryingandhoping,*

I'm from Lithuania and I have spoken with manager in Russian. And we'll be the first family fro our country who use surrogacy (in our country it isn't allowed)..but I agree to speak in English if it helps for better communication...however my English isn't so good )))


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Lotus123 

All their managers can probably speak Russian, so you've probably just been assigned the one who is available. 

Do yourself a massive favour and get legal advice about immigration before signing anything. I don't know how it works in Lithuania, but couples from other countries have had problems taking their baby home if their home country bans surrogacy. So just make sure you are certain you can get your baby home if you use surrogacy.

Good luck! 
S x


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## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping,

Yes, I've spoken with our Embassy in Kiev. They told that it'll be the first time for them ))) But I and my husband will be mentioned in Birth Certificates as parents - so it seems that everything will be OK.
So we just need to take photo and receive ID number and do not need to do passport for travelling back with the baby... so it can be done in 1-2 weeks.

For  UK another rules?


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## Proud-Dad-of-Twins

Hi Bella, 

When we started our surrogacy journey more than 2½ years ago we didn't have extensive email exchanges with La Vita Nova since we believed that face-to-face meetings would be more effective. We received some general information via emails about how the process would work and how much it would cost. We booked a trip to visit Ukraine not just for meetings with the agency but also for taking a look at daily life in Ukraine. 

We had many questions and we brought them up at the face-to-face meetings with La Vita Nova. We discussed our main concerns and got better understanding of some key issues. We got more information about potential egg donors and surrogate mothers. We took a leap of faith when signing the contracts and felt that we had to give it a shot despite uncertainties. Deep inside we felt very hopeful and optimistic that we would succeed.  

Yes, I think you should not focus too much on the figures and details over the email exchanges. I understand that many people want to have all the information and have everything under control. But in the real world there are many things that you don't really have much control, so instead you should focus on the big picture and the most important things. 

When it comes to the various packages, I think they have been introduced only this year due to competition among the agencies in Ukraine, Russia and Georgia. We didn't have any packages to choose from 2½ years ago, we just had a list of essential and optional cost items. In your face-to-face discussions with La Vita Nova, you will have the possibility to customize your contracts depending on your needs.  

Regarding what extra costs that you should be aware of, it is very much depending on what are included in your contracts. In our case, we didn't have any package (not offered/available at that time), the only extra costs (which we didn't know in advance how much it would be) were related to the health care costs of the surrogate mother (for example during later stages of pregnancy) and babies (for example if they were born prematurely and needed special care). Luckily, almost everything went well for us, we didn't have much extra costs. Our total costs (from start to finish) were under our budget and we were very happy that things had turned out so well. 

Bella, if you have any specific questions, feel free to send me PM here. Wish you the very best in your surrogacy journey!


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Lotus123 
Yes uk is very different. It will take 3-4 months to get baby passport to bring the child back. Even though our names will be in the birth certificate, the UK will not recognise us as being the legal parents. 

Bella
I think it's good to ask all the questions you need to before entering an agreement. Although I do understand what Hopeforsoring is saying about things changing etc, you need to ask the questions to be prepared. Don't ever feel silly for doing it, it's up to these agencies to provide the answers for you. If they don't, just keep asking. At the end of the day, when the process is underway, you need to know you are able to ask whatever questions you want, and get some sort of answer. And if you are finding contradictions in the contract, they should be willing to explain this, not brush it under the table.

Hope everyone is well !


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## Chrisdames

Girls,
I am new to this site. Trying to find a reliable surrogacy services in Ukraine. Have been trying ivf 2 years no luck. Had miscarriage years ago when I was working on site without surgery till month after. So my uterus is sort of stuffed up. Have taken a year off work to get ivf done but just luck so we think we have to get the surrogacy service start asap.
Have sent emails to biotexcom, la vita nova but haven't heard anything back yet. Will ty to ring them tonight. We are in Australia so sort of worry about the inconvenience if we have to go there evry now and then.
Thanks a lot for you guys sharing info here. Very helpful.
Good luck for all of us


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## Bella2016

Hope4spring- Thank you, that's very useful. We have decided that we would visit a couple of clinics in the Ukraine next year, incl. La Vita Nova. I am aware that their package prices change every year and I have already been told that the price of all of their unlimited packages will go up in the new year, so I will have to ask them to email me the new price packages. I just hope they wont go up by much, now that the pound is going down and everything is getting more expensive... 

Stilltrying- Thanks, I agree, we should ask all the 'silly' questions before we sign the agreement and contract. We will visit Biotexcom next year too, so will get a better feel of the clinic and can ask all sort of questions. I hope their prices wont increase or by not much, anyway. 

Hi to all.


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## Reptile Smile

We managed the Gordon Brown trick of selling the gold at the lowest possible price.  We kept waiting for a more favourable exchange rate, and it went down and down and down, until the Conservative party conference, when May said Brexit means Brexit, and that wiped it out to $1.2, we made our biggest payment, and immediately after it started climbing again.

Exchange rates cost us about 2.5k GBP over the course of our surrogacy :-(


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## Bella2016

Reptile Smile- 2.5K?? That's so frustrating!!! Lets just hope that it will stabilise soon.. I would hate if that happens to us, but if it does, I guess it would be just part of the deal..


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## Stilltryingandhoping

RS

I feel you! Brexit happened at exactly the wrong time for us. We have lost out so much because of the exchange rates, and trying to keep an eye on the market and guess what will happen is risky too.  Pounds up at the moment but it will soon crash again


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## lotus123

Dear experienced lady (in Biotexcom),

What kind of analysis have you done before your first visit to this clinic?


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## Maya2016

Hi,

we are also in process of communication with Biotexcom Kiev. I want to clarify as much as possible questions before our first visit and signing the contacts.   I received the draft contracts and I saw that there isn`t  information about the registration of Biotexcom in the local trade register.
Therefore I would like to ask those of you who have already signed the contacts if you know if Biotexcom and/or Renaissance have been registered in Ukrainian trade register. Also do they need a licence to operate as a surrogacy agency?

Thanks!


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## lotus123

Hello!

As I've understood there are a lot of agrements. One of them with offshore company - agency Renesanse and all payments should be done accordingly this agreement. But there are some another agreements (common, SM, ICSI, DE, application) with the clinic Biotexcom, which is registered in Ukrain - you should not pay any payments via these agreements. I don't know how they do bookkeeping with legal local institutions.... But of course this can't be credible - laundering of money. So if something goes wrong there's no sense to sue.....


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## ruby100

Hi All,

Just to say I'm embarking on EC again soon all being well.  Starting stims today eeeek!  Clinic have decided that although I am super high risk I can have a 'go' at the full IVF cycle myself.  I haven't fully decided yet but I'm going to get to EC and see how i am and go from there.  I need embryos whichever way we decide to go! 

Ruby x


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## lotus123

Dear Rubby,

Good luck !!!!
But what high risk are you speking?
In chich clinic you are?
So now you will try to be pregnant yourself not SM?


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## Proud-Dad-of-Twins

Hi All, 

I'm not 100% sure about the Ukrainian law, but it seems obvious that any surrogacy agency in Ukraine needs a valid license from the Ministry of Health of Ukraine to be allowed to provide surrogacy related services. 

Before we signed our contracts with La Vita Nova, we checked that they have a valid license (No 281131) from the Ministry of Health of Ukraine and also they are registered in the USR registry of legal entities, enterprises and organizations (EDRPOU No 38631130) with the Ministry of Justice of Ukraine. 

Maya: I don't know if BioTexCom have a valid license and are registered with the Ukrainian government. You need to check!

If something goes wrong, and if your agency is not licensed and not registered with the Ukrainian government, you run the risks of having no legal protection, and as Lotus said it makes no sense to go to the court, since your contracts are illegal.


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## ruby100

Dear Lotus,

My risks are high in EC and pregnancy as I have some serious medical diseases that can make me and any baby very sick.  However, as my illnesses have been a bit better recently  they have decided to give ME the choice of whether or not I wish to try transfer and possibly pregnancy myself.  I've not decided yet and some depends on how EC goes etc.  Of course, even if I 'try' transfer it may not go well and I may still need a surrogate as my medical illnesses may mean I really cannot carry a baby - however, as I've never tried it's unknown.

Thanks

Ruby xx


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## Reptile Smile

Good luck, Really hope it goes well for you! xx


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## lotus123

Dear ruby100,

Good luck!!!  
In chich clinic you are? When is estimated EC?

. *Edited by moderator, if you have concerns over a clinics credentials please contact them directly and ask for the clarification you require


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## Doctina1

Hi new mothers. Am also new here. But the question I want to ask is when applying for the babies passports, did you send your original passports with the documents? Thx all.


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Everyone

So my husband and i signed contracts for surrogacy with Biotexcom and the contract was with Renaissance Inc, but the rest of the paperwork was Biotexcom. We take everything with a pinch of salt and look at realistic risks, and figure out how to minimise them. One of the main things we are doing at the moment, to help ourselves is to learn speaking Ukrainian. This will help us immensly, whether things go to plan or not.

Doctina1, what country are you from? we spoke about this a little earlier in the thread and figured out that for British people, you do not have to send the passport. You take the passport to the embassy in Ukraine and they take copies to send with the paperwork.

 *Edited by moderator


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## Maya2016

Hi Stilltryingandhoping,
congratulations for signing the contracts!   I wish Biotexcom will make your dream come true in a very short time!


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi maya2016

Thanks. We should be going there in 2 weeks to have our first round. Fingers crossed!!


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## Doctina1

Hi stilltryingandhoping,

Good news and fingers crossed your dreams come true.


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## ruby100

Good news S!  Keep us posted  

Ruby x


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## Chrisdames

Hi girls,

Good to see you Gus are all progressing.

We, my husband and I, have just booked tickets to Kiev to meet several clinics/agents in Dec.
Have received information from la vita nova, biotexcom and newhope. 

We are frankly confused by their program contents especially by la vita nova. They have respond in a good time manner but we still don't see our questions have been fully answered. 

Biotexcom's program details are relatively clearer about inclusion and exclusions. Makes us feel slightly relax but we couldn't get them to respond quick enough which brings a little worry.

Any one had the same feeling as us? Besides, the la vita has adviced that if we do not wish to sign the contract after the visiting, we are required to pay 600EUR consulting and interpreter fees. Is this something normal?

Thanks a lot

C


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## Bella2016

Hi Chrisdames, I have been in contact with La Vita Nova, but I have been happy with their answers. The person I have been in contact with always answered all my questions and got back to me the same day. I was told that it would be ok to think about everything and not sign the contract on the same day and would be able to sign it once back in the UK. I was told that there would be a 100 EUR fee for the interpreter's services, but I cant remember if they said there would be a fee for the consultation. I will have to check my emails. The 600 EUR would be part of the contract signing and the package you choose, which would go to your representative and would be given to the SM, in case of a miscarriage or a BFN. If this doesn't happen, then you would get the 600 EUR back. That is my understanding. x


----------



## Chrisdames

Thanks a lot Bella,
The 600EUR are in fact 500 consulting fee (2days with their vatous clinics. Why need?) and 100 interpreter fee. But my concern is that we only want a quick meeting to get feeling of the operation we might deal with therefor I don't think it would be more that 1 to 2 hours of their time. I couldn't see it would waste lots of resources from the company even if we don't go with them. It makes us feel uncomfortable for what the company's actual focus lays. We liked their respond manner but the fee does put us off. Not because money, I don't mind to pay a small amount of consulting fee but 600 is just ridiculous to pay for enquiry.

Funny we have spent 5k on just tickets for the meeting and the company said we need to pay for the consulting fee and the interpreter fee!? Aren't this part of their presales servicers offered to international customers? Or they assume that everyone from the word should fluent with Ukrainian?

Note, We have already adviced that we only want a quick catch up to know each agent before we make our mind. 
Would this actually is common in dealing with Ukrainian businesses?  Should we be frank and honest or you suppose to lie to them to get better outcomes? Anyone has experience?

Guess we will just have to turn up on local clinics and agents to meet as walk in since we have already book tickets. Think that might be possibly easier as we could just ask at the door step.
Many thanks for help from all of you
C


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## Proud-Dad-of-Twins

Hi Chris/Bella, 

I remember that we also paid €600 fee (consulting + interpreter) when we met La Vita Nova for the first time. Since we signed the contracts with them during the last day of our visit, the €600 became part of the contract payments. I understood that if we didn't sign the contracts with them, the €600 would be gone/lost, and yes I agree with you that, in such a case it is indeed too much to pay for inquiry (face-to-face meeting). 

However, one important thing anyone pursuing surrogacy in Ukraine should know about is that the culture, language, mindset, business practices, and ways-of-working differ from what you're used to in your home country, especially from a West European or North American point of view. If you keep this in mind, it would be easier to handle things while you are in Ukraine. In retrospective, what mattered most for us was that they (La Vita Nova and Intersono) got things done, with very good results. Our surrogacy process went quite smoothly and we noticed that in every key step they'd done their job. 

I think from La Vita Nova's perspective they see the €600 fee (also the required documents about financial ability, marriage status, non-criminal records) as indications that the clients are really serious about pursuing surrogacy. We flew to Kiev and then travelled by train from Kiev to Kharkiv (La Vita Nova's main office, the second largest city in Ukraine) and they sent a driver to pick us up from the train station and took us to our hotel in the city center. The same driver took us to their office during the next few days for our meetings and escorted us to the train station on our last day.  

I understand that many people on this forum want to collect all information and get all details, analyze and compare several agencies/clinics before selecting the one they like the most, which is a rational decision making process. When we started our surrogacy journey, we also tried to do this way, but we soon found out that it was very difficult (at that time) to get useful and trustworthy information we were looking for, so we went with feelings and intuitions. We did a desktop research and then decided to visit only one agency (La Vita Nova). We were satisfied with their responses in both emails and face-to-face meetings, we felt that we could trust them, so we signed contracts with them. 

Also in retrospective, we realized that we did the right decision to go with La Vita Nova whose surrogate mothers live in Kharkiv area instead of any Kiev based agencies whose surrogate mothers live in Kiev area, since in our opinion Kharkiv is a better and nicer city (more livable, more convenient, more friendly, and less expensive), with no more costs. In the final days of passport applications for our twins we moved to Kiev (where our embassy is located) and we were really shocked by how inconvenient and unfriendly it was for families with small babies in Kiev.  

The combination of La Vita Nova and Intersono worked very well for us. Intersono is one of the best IVF clinics in Europe and Lviv is a very enjoyable city (we spent several days there as tourists in addition to the IVF procedure). We gained much confidence (that we would succeed) after we met Dr Uliana at the Intersono clinic.


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## ruby100

Hi - just quickly reading through just wanted to say that Biotexcom Standard package I believe DOES cover any costs incurred for a premature birth for any baby/s and SM. . . .


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## lotus123

Dear All,

May be someone of you have any experience with Ukrainian Medcenter of prof.Feskov/ Surrogate motherhood Center of pr. Feskov / Sana-med in Kharkov?


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## hopeandpray

Good Morning. 

I'm researching clinics and had a question for those that have used BioTexCom. Did you have to show proof of €39900 when you signed the contracts?? 
I'm wondering if it's even worth contacting them with only part of the money or if we should wait until all money is in our savings account?
I'm just impatient to get going as soon as possible 
Also did everybody pay straight from their accounts or is there any financial benefit of converting to euros first? 

Thank you


----------



## Denmommy

hi, sorry for not being too informative today. Just wanted to drop a line and tell that we're traveling to Ukraine today, all my family. Ovulation stimulation with Merional started on 19/11 and keep stimulating there in Kiev under supervision of our fertility doctor. 
need your positive vibes, ladies


----------



## lotus123

Denmommy,

Good luck ;-)
keeping fingers crossed xxx


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## Stilltryingandhoping

DenMommy

Good Luck!! I hope it goes well for you 

Hopeandpray

We didnt show any kind of funds, we were never asked this from BioTexCom. I would advise that you contact them and ask this tough, because i dont know if that is standard procedure.

I am starting stimulation tomorrow and will be flying out on Sunday. Although, my clinic appointment isn't until Wednesday next week (I booked my flights in advance thinking i would be at the clinic on Monday). So i have 2 days to be a tourist


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## hopeandpray

Thank you Stilltrying. Lots of luck to you. X


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## ruby100

Dear S - I hope you are ok and your flight to ukraine has been ok today - thinking of you x


----------



## Uber Barrens Club

Hi all,

Congrats to those of you with successful births and good luck to those of you at other stages of your surrogacy journey

We are at the initial stages of exploring surrogacy - it seems increasingly likely that we will end up at that point, as I have miscarried two chromosomally normal embryos, and we know the problem is my rubbish endometrium, which despite every intervention is proving intransigent. Unless we can get my lining to regenerate and get me menstruating in the next 6 months (I’m on a copper IUD, trying to have a period, because we want to have a baby - FML!!), it seems like a fruitless endeavour to try another FET when my uterus clearly isn’t up to the job. We have 5 PGS normal embryos on ice that have the potential to become people - the problem is whether we can turn any of them into a person in my uterus. I’m not sure whether we would try one more FET even if all the signs say we’re just going to miscarry again - I feel we ought to ‘just in case’, but then again it also feels like a waste of a precious embryo. Regardless, I sadly can’t see my uterus being up to the job, so I think it’s likely we will have to transfer into someone else’s in order for us to become parents.

We have only been considering the US thus far and have been gently researching our options there - I’ve spoken by email and Skype with a number of agencies and clinics, and have friends who’ve been through the surrogacy process in the US, so feel we understand the US experience much better.

I wanted to better understand the European options so we could feel we’d researched all available avenues, and this thread has been very illuminating - thank you all for sharing

What kind of contact do you have with the surrogates - do you attend antenatal scans? How do you manage contact with them throughout the pregnancy? How often do you get updates? What about the initial meetings - did the clinic / agency facilitate and translate when you met the surrogate? What kind of ongoing support is provided to the surrogate and their family (ie not just financial)?

(BTW does anyone also happen to know -I should be able to find this out easily enough so am just asking here in case anyone happens to know - can you export frozen embryos to Ukrainian clinics for use in gestational surrogacy? FDA regulations permit this for the US, because our embryos were created with our own eggs and sperm and not specifically for use in surrogacy, have yet to clarify the regulatory framework in other countries) 

The thread has been really informative about the payments and legal side, but I’d be interested to understand more about how the the contact and support side of the process works, for both the intended parents and particularly the surrogate. Any thoughts and experiences gratefully received!

I shall ask these questions on the Georgia thread as well for completeness 

Very many thanks in advance

xx


----------



## Bdust

Hello All,

First post on this forum, having read all through the thread as well as multiple others. Thanks to everyone for their contributions as I know this can be a lonely road. A little about us. Wife and I could not conceive naturally over a few year so IVF's. Multiple cycles and 6+ IVF's later, all BFN due to medical issues. Doctor recommended surrogacy. US was too expensive for us so we explored outside the US. After months of research, chose a clinic in India based on transparency on overall cost and staggered payments throughout the program and  the programs they had in place to support the surrogates.

First transfer to surrogate was BFN. The program we chose in India was a package for multiple tries as the lessons from our multiple IVF failures had us planning for the worse case scenario of multiple tries and avoid the emotional roller coaster on banking or hopes on everything will go right the first time. If it was BFP the first time, great and if it was not, great as well....Second transfer into another surrogate was BFP and we now have an 18month old angel. We were about to start another surrogacy process in India, but surrogacy was banned, so looking into other options including Ukraine. 

With my research thus far, there seems to be multiple reasonable clinic options in Ukraine and the laws are established and clear, but I have to sort out which clinic is which. There are definitely popular options like Bio....., however there seems to be multiple trolls posting "amazing positive review" on multiple websites and forums and its a turnoff for me and does the clinic a huge disservice IMO. We prefer to engage directly with the clinics and not through an agency. From our perspective, this process is so emotionally draining that we don't need a third party translating the news of whats going on either good or bad. That amounts to prolonged torture and we also don't see much value added from agencies. YMMV.

Has anyone, researched and or used other clinics besides Biotex in Ukraine? Please share your direct experiences, both positive and negative? This will help a great deal in evaluating and narrowing down the choices.

@Bananafish81,
I can't speak for the process in Europe or the US but from our experience in India which should not be too far from the norm elsewhere, we met with the surrogate mother and her husband during the signing of the contract and ensured that everyone understood, approved and were on the same page. Counseling was already provided to the surrogate as part of the surrogate recruiting process. Our doctor sent us all the labs, scan and check up results promptly. Engagement with the surrogate was at the clinic and over Skype since we live in the US. Updates from the clinic were at least twice monthly and we could also ask as needed. The clinic mandated life insurance policy for the surrogate which was not the norm at other clinics at the time and also had a support system for the surrogates with the goal to ensure that the surrogates were self sufficient and did not return after being a surrogate twice. The transparency and care of the surrogate is why we went with the clinic we chose in India. From my research on Ukraine, export of embryos to Ukraine for gestational surrogacy are legal and multiple clinics list it on their website as an option. We are actually considering this option as well. Hope that helps. I am still researching and learning about the process in Ukraine as well.

Thank you
B


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## AmeliaH

Bananafish81, let me answer some of your questions as to contact with surrogates. They didn’t allow meeting surrogate before the 12 week scan. This is the first time you can see her in person. Further communication is also exclusively via their interpreter. We’re with Ukrainian biotexcom, so probably in other clinics the procedure is different. They also give you just general information about her, her family and living conditions. Our surro lives around 400 km far from Kiev but she comes to clinic once a month for tests, US and scans and then they send results to us. Thus you stay informed. Before delivery, she will come to Kiev and stay there until the baby is born. As to surro’s care, they totally provide prenatal and postpartum care for her.


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## Denmommy

Hi! This is our last day in Kiev - snowy and cold. Eggs retrieval went well even though I felt terrifically up to two days after surgery and anesthesia. it's better now. 8 eggs received. I don't know if it's a good result or not. we still don't have any info as to embryos. we don't stay here till transfer day. I hope they will do their best. worried and excited but full of hope  fingers crossed


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## Bdust

One day at a time @Denmommy and it will all turn out great.


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## michellemichelle

Hi! all! I am a total newbie here. I think I  am going to opt for surrogacy but I haven't decided where yet. The questions keep popping in my head and I can't control them or make them into some kind of a system.
Is there anyone from US? I wonder how long does it take to get the documents if you have a baby delivered by a Ukrainian surrogate mother? Thank you a lot.


----------



## michellemichelle

wait, so you do not meet the surrogate mother until she is on 12 week? Did I understand you right? But may I ask you why? Wouldn't it be better for you to know your surrogate mother..? how do you pay her then?


----------



## peanutrain

Michelle, it should take about 6 to 8 weeks.


----------



## Bdust

I would like to understand this as well. Does that mean that the contract with the surrogate is signed sight unseen and then after that you can't see the surrogate until Week 12? How does one then know that the surrogate event exists or that the surrogate is a willing participant?


----------



## Bdust

6-8weeks seems quite sometime. Any info on why so long? Does the birth certificate in Ukraine take several weeks? Our experience in India was in 3-3.5 weeks from birth to when we were back in the US with the baby. The embassy advised to plan for 4weeks which we did and had to reschedule our flights to earlier once we were done. One tricky item is the availability of CRBA appointments at the embassy as that the start of the embassy process.


----------



## Uber Barrens Club

You don't meet the surrogate until after 12 weeks?! So you only get to meet the person you're trusting to carry your baby after the transfer (and in fact after the first trimester). Does that mean presumably you can't attend the transfer? Or the viability scan? 

How do you decide whether or not to proceed with a nominated surrogate if you haven't met them?

How does it work without any direct contact, if it's all through the clinic? 

Apols for all the questions, I'm only familiar with the US process (friends who've done surrogacy all did in US and it's the only route we've researched thus far), and obv other countries' processes are very different - so just trying to get my head around it


----------



## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping, how are you?
How was your trip to Kiev?
How are you filling after all this?


----------



## minerva71

hello everyone! i hope it's the right place to ask few questions about one of the Ukrainian clinics, biotexcom. i was looking for a clinic to provide de ivf tx and i was advised this one. i still have doubts though hard to explain but i'm not fond of traveling especially by plane and don't like to visit other countries. however i'm from bulgaria and ukr is not that far. i have 'forum friends' and some of them shared their experience in the clinic and it has mostly high success rate. shouldn't i be scared of going thre? it's going to be my 1st ivf i'm just confused, please help to decide


----------



## BobbiH

Hi all, there are clinics in Kiev that allow you to pick the surrogate and meet them in person before signing up to the programme, Biotexcom just happens to be the most popular one at the moment.


----------



## BlueCloud

Hello all, 

I have been a lurker for some time. Do you mind if I join in?

We are embarking on surrogacy journey as well. We are cycling with IAAM and Nadiya clinic. We are on their waiting list to find a SM. Our embryos are already created and waiting to be transferred. We have been told they will find SM by January 17. Is anyone here getting a help from IAAM or Nadiya in Kiev?


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi everyone!!

I'm currently in Germany, on route to the UK after my trip to Kiev to have egg collection and transfer of embryos to our surrogate.

I haven't been able to access the Fertility Friends website from Kiev at all, I don't know if it's banned in the country. So I have been writing diary entries electronically, and I will add them to my diary on this forum in the next day or 2. 

I have to say that although I am impressed with the medical team at BioTexCom, my experience of the staff and managers(the information they provide, how dismissive they are of customer questions and the rudeness) has really made me wish I signed contracts with any one else! I really can't recommend them at all. This is just from my experience, although I have spent 2 1/2 weeks in Kiev and spoken to lots of people who are customers of the clinic and they tell me similar stories.

We are officially in our 2 week wait now, and either way, we have signed contracts and already spent about £15k so there is no turning back for us now. 

I'll update my diary and give details of everything in the entries, I just wanted to write a quick post.

S xx


----------



## Bdust

@Stilltryingandhoping thanks for sharing your feedback. I am looking forward to your diary entries. We are currently considering surrogacy options in Ukraine.

Thanks


----------



## Bdust

Glad to have you on-board. Was there a reason why the surrogate was not ready and synchronized at the same time you were going through your cycle so that it was a fresh transfer or was that not an option? Thanks


----------



## lotus123

*Stilltryingandhoping,*

Congratulations! You've done one of the most important part of all this journey!!!
Keeping your fingers crossed!!!

Thank you for your diary!!!! It's very useful for me. I'm going for our first visit on the next week!!!!
I also don't like how my manager works... 

So till now you don't know how many follicles they have taken and how many embryos you have and their quality?
And about quantity of embryos transfer decide only doctor 1 or 3

Did you shared your apartaments with somebody?
Did you have internet in hotel, clinic?
Did you see someone with already babies from sm?


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Lotus123

I still need to finish updating my diary.  I had 3 embryos transferred to a surrogate and 2 frozen, but I only found this out this week.
I've had a lot of problems with my manager, the brunt of which I haven't added to my diary yet! But it will be updated soon I promise.

The clinic had lots of different accommodation, they just put you wherever them can. This accommodation had good wifi connection, and it was a hotel with a restaurant. It was very comfortable. I met a couple at the clinic who had a baby,so that gave me some hope. But for me, being British, it's all well and good having a baby through surrogacy. The main problem will be with immigration. If the clinic messes up on any of the major points, it will be very difficult. They have always told me that it will take 6 weeks or less to get the baby passport, but in reality I know it will be 3-4 months. So please make sure you check everything for yourself and don't just trust the clinic. 

I'll try to have my diary updated fully by tomorrow. Good luck with your visit


----------



## Bella2016

Good luck Denmommy and Stilltrying! Fingers, toes and everything crossed for you. I hope you will receive amazing news for Christmas!!!  

Stilltrying, thank you so much for your diary, the info is so useful. I am shocked about a few things, but mostly about those couples not being told that their babies had been born!!!!🤔 How appalling!!   I am glad you are ok, that business with the anaesthesia sounds scary!! Keep safe! 

Hello to everyone else. Bxx


----------



## Bdust

@Stilltryingandhoping did you already share/post your diary as I don't see it posted?

Thanks


----------



## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping,

Thanks for your answers!!! Xxx
3 embrions? Are you ready for triplets? 
What the name of your so "good" manager? Lidia?
After your information about not good communication with manager, delayed info about day of babies birth, possible problems with immigration....  now I'm afraid more )))))

I've asked to my manager about docs for immigration and my country embassy in Kiev...It seems that all is rather easy and it takes 1-1,5 weeks only...but from my country I'll be the first...so of course i'm afraid of it also....

Is it really so difficult for uk citizens? We need only certificate of birthday translated in our language where we mentioned as parents + photo...


----------



## BlueCloud

Bdust thanks for the welcome. IAAM is still finding a surrogate for us so we thought to create and freeze the embryo so save a bit of time. We are hoping to sing a contract with the surrogate in January. 

Stilltryingandhoping, lovely news about your transfer. 

I experienced similar things with the manager  during our initial investigations. Biotexcom wasn't transparent about the payments to surrogate and I received inconsistent information few times which put me off. It may have been just me who is treated this way. We booked flights and hotel etc to visit kiev to do the paperwork. We received an email  to say ISIDA will no longer accept a surrogate from her agency. We almost lost hope at that point as that point. We started investigating options in USA which was way beyond our financial reach. Luckily we had a consultation with Natalie Gambles in London who provided so much useful information and recommended IAAM. I found IAAM's manager and lawyer there are so professional and helpful so far. It is too early to say anything solid but I am getting good vibes. 

How is everyone else?


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Lotus123

Yes the uk embassy is a little more time consuming and difficult. We have to provide a massive list of required documents. We also need the surrrogate to be single so the British nationality can be passed to the baby from the father, otherwise the baby will not be British and it is very difficult to bring it home. I know it can be faster for many other nationalities.

Yes Lida is my manager. She is he English speaking manager. She has a few assistants now as she is heavily pregnant and getting more and more busy. 

S xx


----------



## lotus123

Dear Stilltryingandhoping,

I've read your updated diary... hmm...I have no words...After your story and manager....
Especially after words: "I feel I've made a very bad mistake choosing this clinic"...
Poor dear...

It seems that this clinic maybe is good, but management of it has a lot of problems.
I've not signed agreement yet...but I'm going after my next week visit...and I already don't like how my manager (not Lidia, and not pregnant) answer on my questions...similar questions - I wait some days for her answers and only after some my remembers I receive answers...and also not on all my questions...

How are you now?  How is your health? 
When your sm will do blood test for hcg? On Christmas? 
So finally have you received signed agreement with her? Do you know her Name or any info?
May be I'll see her on the next week in this clinic ;-)
Am I right understood that doctor has transferred 3 embryos as you wonted, yes?

I hope that nevertheless this clinic do good their main work - wealthy babies for us...which have problem to have them themselves without their help...


----------



## Reptile Smile

Stilltryingandhoping, so sorry to hear of your experience.  We're keeping our fingers crossed for you.  Just astonished at the way they spoke to you and think it's brilliant that the power of the web means others can learn from your experience.


----------



## Bella2016

Does anyone have a diary or blog for La Vita Nova agency or Intersono clinic? It would be great to read about more detailed experiences of those ladies who used them or are with them at present. Bx


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi everyone

Thanks for your comments and response. We are hoping for the best, and only hope we can get through our attempts with little contact with our managers. They are so busy that they can't give people the attention that they need, important questions or not. 

Lotus123, I am well now  I am finally healed from the surgery and recovering from this awful flu. As for the surrogate mothers pregnancy, we are supposed to find out 2 weeks after the transfer, but I will expect them to be a little late and not count on being told straight away. The clinic is closed from Christmas until some time in the middle of January, so I hope to find out before Christmas(fingers crossed!). Yes they have transferred 3 embryos to maximise chances of success, so let's see what happens. We have the joint agreement which has the surrogates name and address, but the handwriting is difficult to read and it is written in Cyrillic. So I have found it difficult to decipher. 

S xx


----------



## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping,

Yes, fingers crossed!!! So waiting positive diary update!!!!

Clinic will be closed? Interesting, because firstly i was planning to visit them on the 27-28th of December and my manager told that thay wouldn't have any holidays...

Cyrilic? I know Russian  (this is my native language)...so, if you want I always can try to help you with it ;-)


----------



## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping,
You've written tha you already spent over £15k so far, and paid 2 of our 5 instalments... Have you signed economic contract? I've though till now that each payment should be 6000eur..so 2*6000=12000 eur. Or I have incorrect information about payments?


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Lotus123

There's more expenses involved than just the direct payments to the clinic. The tests they wanted us to do before our first appointment were a complete waste of money(I later found that some people don't even do these) and they cost over 1k, flights, rubbish exchange rates, pet hotel, airport car park , legal advice etc etc it's all come to over 15k at the moment.


----------



## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping,

Wau! My tests before for the first visit cost not more than 200 -250 eur (the most expensive was AMH test), tickets (for both for fist visit) 200 eur... so it seems that all other charges (not payments to clinic) are more expensive in UK.


----------



## Cheesy

Bella are you doing surrogacy? There is a historic cycling thread (non surro) for intersono in the regional/ international boards, Eastern Europe thread and one lady interested currently. But these aren't diary entries. Might not be what you are looking for. Am typing one handed on my phone and unable to insert a link  - sorry!


----------



## Cheesy

Bella are you doing surrogacy? There is a historic cycling thread (non surro) for intersono in the regional/ international boards, Eastern Europe thread and one lady interested currently. But these aren't diary entries. Might not be what you are looking for. Am typing one handed on my phone and unable to insert a link  - sorry!


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Lotus123

You are very lucky! Each test cost atleast £150 , and for things like chest x ray for both myself and my husband, that's £300. That's just for the 1 test for both of us. We also had to do other tests like breast ultrasound, full hormonal screening, full sexual health screening etc. It worked out to be very expensive. It was pointless because they did majority of the tests at the clinic, and I don't even see what a chest X-ray or breast ultrasound is relevant. It just wasted money. I have since met couples who went there without these tests and didn't need to do them. They just refused. 

S x


----------



## Reptile Smile

The chest X-ray is to pick up multi-resistant TB which is particularly high in Georgia and the Ukraine.  I think it's more relevant for someone carry the child themselves, rather than a surrogacy process, but that's the thinking behind it, I believe.


----------



## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping,

We didn't do chest ultrasound. Chest x-ray costed 15 eur, but we have them from my last pregnancy  (this year), as well as transvaginal ultrasound  (after my unhappy delivery ), but in general it costs 20-50 eur. Bread ultrasound - 40 eur. Husband's blood test (hiv etc)-20 eur, my blood test (amh, lh, fsh, testosterone, estrogen, progesterone etc + hiv, hepotite B, C, syphilis) - 150 eur....

Moreover I've compered our country's prices and this clinic's prices - Ukrainian are more cheaper....

But salaries in our country are also smaller than in UK and in Ukraine even less.


----------



## Bella2016

Cheesy- thanks. I am not doing surrogacy at the moment, as am still trying to get pg myself, but i am looking into it, in case i will need it. I figure it is better to do the research now and just go for it when we decide to do down that route. I will try to find the Intersono thread. It would give me a much better idea of the clinic. Thank you for the tip! xx


----------



## lotus123

Denmommy, 

today is an important and long-awaited day for you - you will know hcg of your sm!
Fingers crossed!!!!
xxx


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Reptilesmile 
Thanks for that insight 

Lotus123 
Which country are you from? 

S xx


----------



## BlueCloud

Stilltryingandhoping, I wish you get the best Christmas gift ever! 3 embryos have a very good chance for positive. Hope you will get through the lack of communication and all the annoying parts and you will hold the babies (yes plural) before sept next year! 

We have 3 embryos waiting to be transferred but our agency keep suggesting to transfer only 1 which I disagree with. 

Good luck Denmommy if your SM is testing today. 

Is anyone here with IAAM or Nadiya? Looking to share and learn some experiences.


----------



## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping,

from Lithuania


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Blue cloud - Thank you! We can only wait and hope ... well firstly hope for a positive and secondly that we find out either way, before Christmas.

Lotus123- are you planning on going to visit Biotexcom on 27/28th then? They've been telling everyone they are closed from Christmas until mid  Jan sometime. So it's best to check that they can definitely meet you. 

S x


----------



## ruby100

So, my own attempt at IVF failed of course and also i was quite unwell as it triggered my SLE - lupus.  No minor thing!

Back to the surrogacy route again   Starting in January with our UK surrogate with our last remaining frosty.  I'm quite negative about it working (probably because I'm protecting my feelings) and then will re-stimulate yet again! This will be my third stimulation so I'm not sure how many more to continue if not successful again.  We are still considering Biotexcom but also Nadiya Clinic in the Ukraine.  We're just waiting to see where fate leads us . . . .


----------



## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping,
We are going to our first visit at the end of this week...so just after some days!


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hey Ruby

So sorry to hear about your last attempt. And the Lupus being triggered, I know it's a nasty illness, one of my friends had it and when it gets triggered, it can be really brutal. I've got my fingers crossed for you, I hope the ending of your story is a happy one  

I've obviously been through it a few times myself, having just had my third stimulation. But for me, this was the last one. The clinic in Kiev won't stimulate me anymore because of complications during the last surgery, but I had already decided I was done. If it doesn't work with our embryos , we are moving to donor eggs. There's only so much a person can do, I refuse to break myself completely in this process. The main reason is because when I eventually have a baby, I want to be healthy and well to look after that baby  

Lotus123

It's interesting that the clinic is closed for 2 weeks to clients, yet they still have people coming in to speak about new contracts. Have they made an appointment with you for next week?


----------



## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping,

Finally we have our appointment tomorrow 
So I hope that everything will be ok...so now I was a little nervous...


----------



## Maya2016

Hi,

Ukrainian celebrate Christmas on January 7, so I think the clinic will be open till 30 December.

Lotos123, I wish you good trip and success in Kiev!

Stilltryingandhoping, I`m keeping my fingers crossed to you!


----------



## Denmommy

We've got the news from Biotex on our surrogacy: two weeks has passed after transfer and the did HCG test. It showed 320 which is a good result and... we are pregnant!!! I still can't believe it's true! 
I couldn't even dream that it will work for us from the very first attempt. That's a miracle. 
Of course, we need to wait until our first ultrasound to know all details but still the news is great and I should have shared it with you.

good luck to all of you, ladies!

Let me send some fertility dust on you
Keep posting on your journey
xxx


----------



## Bella2016

Congratulations, Denmommy! That's a wonderful Xmas present for you and your family and very encouraging for the rest of us who are looking into surrogacy. Fingers cx for the upcoming ultrasound!!  

Good luck to you too, Stilltrying!! When's your test date? Hope you will also get wonderful news.


----------



## Reptile Smile

Congrats Denmommy.  V pleased for you.


----------



## Bdust

Congratulations Denmommy. That's an excellent Christmas present for you. Very happy for you.

@Stilltrying hope your result come with good news as well. Baby dust in the air


----------



## peanutrain

Congratulations, Denmommy! 
Stilltryingandhoping, I hope you get your big fat positive soon. Don't lose hope. We were devastated when our first surrogacy trial did not work. And, just like you, we had transferred the best of our embryos and thought the remaining not so good looking embryos had no chance and my eggs were bad. Well, one of those not so good looking embryos stuck and we are expecting her in February.


----------



## BlueCloud

Lovely to hear your fantastic news Denmommy. 

Good luck peanutrain, Feb isn't too far away!

Stilltryingandhoping, not long to go for your test. Your updates give all of us so much hope. 

Lotus, how did your appointment go?

We are still waiting to hear news from our agency for selecting surrogate. Ukraine celebrate orthodox Christmas so will be closed from 30/12-10/01. so will loose more time if we don't hear from them by next week.


----------



## Denmommy

Thank you friends!     I still can't believe it all worked out for us. In any case, it's just a beginning of a long way to go.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and your dearest! Lets all make wishes and they will definitely come true. 

I wish to hear your good news here soon, too

Loads of love 
xxx


----------



## Mummytwins

Hi all

Can someone (in the UK) please share how they are/were able to make their bank transfers to the clinics in Ukraine and if they have encountered any problems. We are a bit confused, if not wary of the advice that we have been given by the clinic. We had expected that we would make the transfer into the bank account of the clinic but instead they have asked us to pay it into an account of an individual whom they said works for them. They have also asked us to state either "private transfer", or "help" or "non commercial transfer" as the purpose of payment as the banks would require this information. When we queried this principle they stated that legal entities in Ukraine are not allowed to receive foreign currencies directly from overseas. So a member of staff will receive the money into their account, withdraws it and then pays it into the clinic's account whilst they are within the Ukraine. They insisted that this is the only easy way to make the transfers towards our surrogacy program.

Please what are other people's experience and what do you think about this advice that we have been given?

A prompt response would be very much appreciated.

Merry Xmas to everyone!


----------



## lotus123

Нi everyone!!!
Merry Christmas!!!!

Denmommy, congratulations one more for so good news!!!!!
Fingers crossed for good results of the ultrasound at the 28th December!!!!

Stilltryingandhoping, I'm so sorry for your not positive result of the first attempt with sm.... I can't imagine how different it is.... You are very smart and strong!!!! Good luck you with your second attempt! I have good news about situation with sm in this clinic: as I know now they have enough sm so you won't wait for a long time.....

We have arrived from Kiev and also signed a contract with them and made the first payment . So I hope that everything will be real for us too. But still i can't believe it! Our first visit was very positive.  So now we are waiting for a result of analysis  (karyotype) and my ultrasound after 10-13 days....


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Merry achristmas everyone!

For anyone who read my diary entry,you already know, but our first attempt with a surrogate didn't work. We will try again with our frozen embryos. I'm guessing it will be in about 3 months as that is usually how long it has been taking in between for others. 

Lotus123- thank you for your well wishes. I hope it works out for you and your partner, it's a tough thing to go through but I know it will be worth it.

S xx


----------



## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping, thank you!

Have you done PDG test for embryos and karyotype for you and your husband? Are they ok?
If not secret, what a problem of you or your partner that you can't be pregnant yourself?


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

We have unexplained infertility, so no one can find a reason why we can't get pregnant. No we haven't had PGD down but we always have lots of grade 1 blastocyst so we never felt the need to risk damaging our embryos to test them. We will use our remaining embryos and then move to donor eggs if it doesn't work.


----------



## lotus123

It's very difficult when nobody can't diagnosed the problem...
But doctor from Biotex didn't offer to try yourself become pregnant with your or donor eggs?
I nothing understand about grades of embryos and blastocyst..and hope that everything will works from the 1-2 attempts...
However we've signed contracted - 2 attempts  - stimulation me + 1 attempt - try with frozen embryos (if they will be good quality), and after then move to donor eggs...


----------



## Bdust

@Stilltryingandhoping, hang in there and things will work out. We were in a similar situation and our second try was the one that worked out. Get some rest and try to take your mind off everything for a few days.


----------



## Reptile Smile

Good advice from Bdust.  So sorry things didn't go your way, STAH.  Hope next time things go your way.  Much love xx


----------



## BlueCloud

Stilltryingandhoping, I am so sorry to hear your news. I read your dairy for the first time and I was tears! It is unfair on all of us who have to take surrogacy journey. Please be strong and divert your thoughts in planning the next steps. I know it is very hard but your time is waiting just around the corner. I am socked on how your manager has treated you at Biotexcom. Sometimes people don't understand the emotional roller coaster we are going through and how hard it is...instead of being nice to us, the agency staff don't want to even do their job properly. If the staff can put their feet into our shoes, they will know how much it hurts. 

Lotus good luck with the scan in few days. 

We are still waiting to find a SM. Our agency IAAM is taking rather a long time for some reason! However the good part is that we will meet the SM and sign the contract before transfer.


----------



## Bella2016

Stilltrying- I am very sorry to hear your news. It is so unfair, but more so I'm your case, because you have been through so much. But don't lose hope, the good thing is that you signed up for the guaranteed program, so you can have as many tries as needed to have your baby. Having said that, I am sure you will succeed the next time!!! I am truly wishing you and your DH all the best!  

Happy new year to you all!! x


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Thank you all for the messages. We are disappointed, but we know we don't have to worry about about planning to go out there agin in a few months and can just get in with our lives whilst the clinic tries again for us, so it makes it a bit easier. We just need to be patient and have faith.

Lotus123- in answer to your last question, the clinic couldn't offer me the immune treatments I need, to try IVF. And also, we just didn't want to waste time doing the same thing over and over when we don't know what the issue is. So we went with surrogacy as we thought the fault would lie with my body somewhere, rather than the eggs. We had no answers, so went with the option that was most likely to succeed. 

S x


----------



## Bdust

Happy New Year. Wishing everyone a bountiful 2017 and lots of baby dust.

Thanks
bdust


----------



## lotus123

Happy New Year!!!

How are you?

Last year for me was the most positive in my life..and the most negative... So I hope that this year will be full of only positive moments!!!
So I wish you only positive moments&results and of course lovely healthy baby/babies in this year!!!!

Today I was on scan of my ovary (in my country). Everythink looks OK but doctor had found small follicular cyst or dominant follicle ...and due to absence of menstrual periods (bleeding) It's difficult to say what it is..
So I'm afraid that due to it my start of protocol can be moved for uncertain time...

I've resent all results to clinic so now I'm waiting feedback from my doctor..but clinic in on holidays till Monday...

One of the most difficult thing is to wait....

*Stilltryingandhoping*, 
How are you?
Have you received any news from clinic about the second attemp?


----------



## Bdust

@Lotus123, hang in there and things will move along. 

It can sometimes feel like a slow motion play of chicken. My wife went through the same, we went for a scan which I thought was routine and was already two steps ahead in my mind and then the doctor found cysts. I almost popped a fuse. It seemed like every turn we made, we discovered a new medical terminology we did not care for LOL. It's difficult but its important to fill your time with other things otherwise down the road, you will find out that you spent so much time just waiting and not doing anything with your time

Thanks
bdust


----------



## BlueCloud

Lotus Sorry to hear about your scan. I totally agree with Bdust's wise words! Wait is the hardest part of the process. 

What stage everyone else are at?


----------



## lotus123

I've received news from clinic!
The first injection (diferelin 3.75) shoud be done on this Saturday!!!
So it starts...
I'm full of emotions!


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Lotus123 

That's threat news. You'll be going through your stimulation in no time now 

We haven't heard anything yet because the clinic is closed.  I hope next week they will be able to tell us an estimate of how long it will be before we can try again. We just have to wait.

Good luck to everyone who's going through their own journeys ATM. 

S xx


----------



## Bdust

Excellent news @lotus123. Goodluck


----------



## Laura May

Hello. I'm new to this thread and surrogacy. Stilltryingandhoping - I read your blog, you are an amazing lady. I read some of your inspiring words out to DH. I too do not allow self pity out of principle. I'm certain your dream (and all of our dreams) will come true.

I was just wondering whether anyone has any experiences of clinics other than Biotex? I'm been a bit put off by how busy they sound. I've ready several of these pages looking but I can't get through them all.

I'd be really grateful for any other reviews. Many thanks, Laura


----------



## lotus123

*Stilltryingandhoping and Bdust,*

Thank you!

But the first injection was postponed ... mostly because of my initiative... 
Unfortunately after hysterectomy I have no bleeding in my periods so It's rather difficult to decide the day of my period...
I've been doing ovulation tests in October and December - if showed my ovulation days...but the results of my scan be 
treated differently: 1) Ovulation with one dominant follicle (14-16 day of my period) or 2) follicular cyst and the 1st day of my period accordingly my last ovulation tests results...
If the first case - in Saturday was the 19th dmp - so I needed to do the first injection, but if the second - too early and dangerous due to my cyst... 
So we decided to do additional scan today...and it seems that I was right... so now I need to wait a resorption of cyst and the 19-21 of my period...
So now I don't know when I start my stimulation (the first injection) ...May be today...may be after 3 weeks..may be much more later...

Again waiting for the unknown...

*Stilltryingandhoping,* 
Hoping that your manager will contact you in the coming days with new information.
But this clinic at the moment really have a lot of sm so I think that you haven't wait for a long period for the second attempt!
Have you frosen your husband sperm for the next attempts? Or you need to visit this clinic one more time?


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Lotus123 
It sounds frustrating, but it's important to try and get the timings right. It will mean you have a much better chance of success.i hope you can get through this time without too much stress 
We have 2 frozen embryos so we don't need to go for thto second attempt. 

Laura 
Thanks for your lovely words. I can't advise on other clinics, but from my experience I wouldn't recommend BioTexCom


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## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping,

I've read your updated diary  
Thank you of sharing so useful information!!!


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## Bella2016

Stilltrying- I have also just read your diary.. Oh. my! This is terrible.. I am totally put off by going to anywhere close this clinic (and had been so even before I had read your diary). My worry now is that other clinics in the Ukraine are similar.... how would we know? We need more ladies telling us about their experiences. 
I hope you will find a 'solution' or a good balance and can carry on with your surrogacy journey. Perhaps letting the manager know that you are aware of how they treat the surrogates and checking on the SM yourself, rather than just taking their word for it, might force them to treat surrogates better. Is there a regulatory body like HFEA that you/ others can report them to? Big hug.


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Bella

My diary was edited by admin, so you probably got to read the edited version. But I think you will get the gist of what I was saying(my version was a little worse). 

I hope I  can find a solution, but for me personally, I would rather have a clear conscious and make the right moral decision. I do want to have a baby and be a mother, but I need to feel I've done it in the right way. 

In the past there have been comments in these forums where people have bought up the subject of how the surrogates are treated and is it right to go to these clinics and sign up for surrogacy. I always advocated it and thought that every woman has the freedom to choose what she wants to do with her body.  If she chooses to be a surrogate and make money to help better her life, then that's an individual decision. After hearing so many stories coming from people I have met in Kiev, and my own experience of being treated poorly by my managet(considering I'm a paying customer) it has raised a lot of questions in my mind. 

I will take a good amount of time to think things through and try to communicate with my manager before making a decision. But I have to say, personally, I do regret signing the surrogacy agreement. Not because I don't agree with surrogacy, but because I don't trust my clinic.


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## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping,

I've catched to read your post before edition of admin. Why they delayed some information?  It wasn't advertising...
And what have you decided? Now you want to change clinic? Or try to speak with manager about all these facts?

It's definitely not good news especially for people who already have signed contracts...  

Even so, at the moment I can't say something bad about this clinic...but I'm only on start.... and my start is postponed unfortunately... 
After my fist to Kiev and signing contract communication with my manager has improved...but still I'm only at the start....
My today scan showed that my mass in ovary has become bigger...


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## Bella2016

Stilltrying- I am sorry that you find yourself being in this situation. I totally agree with your viewpoint, I would also want to make sure that the SM is well taken care of, as you don't want the woman carrying your child to be in distress and receive bad treatment. I am sorry that you had to find out this way. If it wasn't for you, the rest of us wouldn't be aware of all these problems, because these happen 'behind closed doors '. My first bad feeling about this clinic was when they told me that they were not legally able to disclose the information about how much the SM gets paid. I knew this wasn't true. 
I hope things will improve and turn out well for you. Sending you lots of good and positive vibes. Xxx


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## Bdust

@Lotus123 hang in there. The stars will eventually align

@Stilltryingandhoping, your post was very insightful and only confirmed what we was able to piece together from searching the web over multiple weeks. Believe me when I say that posts like yours are more of whats needed so that IP's and SM's can make informed decisions which will then reflect in the business that the clinics get so thanks a million for sharing your experience thus far. These honest and direct feedback are hard to find. 

@Bella2016, while there are certainly bad stories, it does not mean that all clinics are the same. We are also in the research phase which we hope to close out in the next few weeks after reviewing all the information that we have requested from essentially most of the surrogacy clinics in both Ukraine and Georgia. From the responses one gets from the clinics and agencies, you can get a sense of transparency that you can then merge with limited feedback you find online to help with your decision making. Any clinic that is not fully transparent is not worth the stress. This road is already emotionally roller coaster enough and adding stress that can be avoided is paramount. There are certainly straight forward clinics that work with IP's and SM's in a transparent manner. 

Thanks
bdust


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi everyone

So far my manager has not replied to my message so I have not been able to speak to her. I messaged her on Monday and there has been no response. No decision has been made yet in anything. To be honest, both me and my husband need a little time to process and think, and also I need to speak to the different people I met at the clinic to get a better idea of things before I make any sort of plan/decision.

My Chinese friend has her twins now. She wasn't allowed to see them until the day she took them, when they were 4 days old, as the hospital was under quarantine. She said they have come back to the hotel with rashes and weren't fed properly. This was her message "They are crying a lot in the hospital,bottles off,they crying loudly but nobody there,have rash in face and butt.and the dry milk around their mouth". 

The hospitals the clinic use are the hospitals around Kiev so not owned by the clinic, I just want to point that out. But she was upset about it.

Hope everyone is well  

Sxx


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## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping,

As I now today in Ukraine (and in clinic as well) there is the first working day after winter holidays...so may be that's why your manager didn't answer you...but of course she could write at least some words to you...

I haven't what to comment about the quarantine and babies conditions and their health... but the main think (for me) that couple finally has received their long waited babies and they are healthy! And hope that they will not have any problems with documentions for coming back home!!!

But what about maternity hospitals - it's not suprise. I don't know any such clinic which has their own maternity hospital. Moreover, my manager told to us that our SM may have their delivery in Kirovograd because of Economy agreement. For us it is not so comfortably but i hope not critical


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## Bella2016

Bdust- I agree that transparency is very important. Please keep us posted re what your experiences are and which clinic you end up choosing.   

S- It is terrifying to hear that a hospital staff can neglect tiny little babies in such manner! It must be difficult for you to know what to do... I hope things will work themselves out soon, just take time to think and process things. Hopefully, you can discuss this with your manager. I am quite worried myself now, because I am being put off by these stories and thus going to the Ukraine.


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## BlueCloud

I was put off by Biotexcom because they didn't tell me how much they pay SM and I am not allowed meet SM until 12 weeks of pregnancy. They were a bit harsh in their reply when questioned few things. 

I am with IAAM in kiev who are so far so good. They have been very professional upto this point but we are just at the start stage. We have paid them but their approach hasn't changed. They are the most expensive ones in Ukraine I think.  

Lotus I hope you start your treatment soon. 

Stillhoping Hope you get some dates soon. 

Bdust and Bella, have you come across IAAM and Nadiya clinic? I would love to hear about your research.


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## Bella2016

BlueCloud- IAAM and Nadya clinic are on the top of my list to research. The first time I heard of them was  couple of weeks ago here, I think you may have mentioned them. 
At the moment, I like La Vita Nova and Intersono clinic the most. It sounds like IAAM is the agency like La Vita Nova  and Nadya clinic is the clinic, like Intersono. I also like NewLife in Georgia, but I find them expensive, because if we don't succeed within the first 2 or maximum 3 attempts, we would not be able to afford more cycles with them or anywhere else. Does IAAM offer guaranteed packages? Bx


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## BlueCloud

Hi Bella,

I came across IAAM when I spoke with a solicitor in U.K. At the very beginning. They were dealing with a couple who just had a baby there and their review were very positive.

I think IAAM does have some packages but we couldn't go with that as we need PGD for genetic reasons. 

I didn't go with intersono as they were not in Kiev and their experience with PgD was limited. Otherwise I would then fine as well.


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## Bdust

@Lotus123, I am not comfortable with the approach of ignoring everything else so long a SM gets pregnant. Not being able to see SM until week 12? Not being able to see the babies until day 4? Not knowing how and what the SM compensation is? Hoping that communication will magically improved after you part with your hard earned money? IP's being notified late about birth? These all sound like issues that have led to surrogacy being labeled as exploitation and thus banned in multiple countries. Everyone has to make their own call but we are not going anywhere close to that clinic. With their seemingly disorganized process, whats the assurance that this does not extend into how they actually manage medical records.....................Also note that if embassies get a feeling that a clinic in is shady, things can quickly go downhill. It is the IP's responsibility to ensure that the clinic they choose is above board to the best they can given the information that is available. YMMV

@Bella2016 and @BlueCloud, We have a preference not to use agencies and have gone directly to the clinics and requested direct engagement. Some of the clinics have responded to us stating that, they only work with specific agencies, who provide the surrogate mother to the clinic. This is fine, but those clinics are not at the top of our list. That is not to say agencies are good or bad, we just don't want a third party in the process and don't feel there is much value add YMMV. Plus our prior experience working with a clinic and ensuring there was a lawyer with clear contracts that spelt out in detail who was responsible for what all through the process was our preference. Either way we did request information from a few agencies as well as directly from the clinics that the agencies used and the difference in the quotes was the agency fee which averaged $3500 - $5000+ on top of the clinics fee.

Also as part of our analysis, we prepare for the cost multiple tries just for our peace of mind as this process can sometimes feel like Russian roulette. If the first try works, then great, if the first try does not work, then great also. In Ukraine, we are fine with both Kiev and Kharkiv cities. Kharkiv is only an hours flight from Kiev and costs like $50 using the local airline which has twice daily flights so we don't mind even though we would prefer no to. Georgia also has good options and good feedback from multiple people who have used multiple clinics and the NLG agency YMMV. Also any quote where the cost was heavily "front loaded" with most of the total payout happening even before confirmed pregnancy, went to the bottom of the list. Any response that was not detailed in its cost breakdown also went to the bottom of the list. Everyone has to come up with what criteria works for them, I am just sharing our criteria. The decision is ultimately yours.

We requested and received independent responses from both La Vita Nova and Intersono clinic. Nadiya has not yet responded to our information request and we did not request information from IAAM. Below are all the clinics and a few agencies that we requested information from in Ukraine and we have received responses from 80% of them thus far


Isida Clinic
Intersono Clinic
Mother and Child Clinic
Nadiya Clinic
Materi Clinic
Victoria Clinic
Human Reproduction Problems Clinic
Art Clinic
Clinic of Professor Feskov
Academician V.I. Gryshchenko Clinic for Reproductive Medicine
BioTexCom (we dropped this option even before they responded based on all the issues raised by multiple IP's)
La Vita Nova Agency​
Below are also all the clinics and a few agencies that we requested information from in Georgia and we have received responses from all of them;

Atlas Care IVF Agency
Chachava Clinic
Neo-Est Fertility Centre Clinic
Medical Center Junona Medical Center Junona
T. Khachapuridze Clinic
Center of Reproductive Health Clinic
In Vitro Fertilization in Georgia Clinic
Zhordania Institute of Human Reproduction Clinic
New Life Georgia Agency​
The clinics listed above, are the clinics that I was able to find after searching the web over a few weeks, looking in the local "yellow pages" or similar, medical registries and agency websites. I am sure I missed some but not many. There was a clinic that I did not list as they did not have an English translation of their website and my efforts to use a translation tool was not successful.

A few of the clinics post detailed prices on their websites and that gives one a good baseline to start from regarding prices. Everyone has different criteria so ones eventual selection will be based on that. For example, BlueCloud's need for a clinic that offers PGD......etc. Also we are located in the US, while most are located in Europe...etc Some people prefer one country over the other.....etc Just decide your criteria and then filter the responses based on that. We aggregated the responses with line by line breakdown so we were comparing apples to apples. For example some clinics include the cost of embryo freezing/storage as part of the package/IVF, while others charge separately for it. Some clinics legal/lawyer fee is $5000 while others list the cost as $500. We dropped any clinic that required a consultation and interpretation fee for first time engagement. My view is that first time consultation is simple the cost of doing business and we refuse to feel locked into any provider just because we talked to them about the services they offer even if they refund the money if you sign up with said clinic. For the clinics that we narrowed down to, we have a call or Skype session with them and ask all the question we feel that we need and then further narrow down until we make a choice.

For details on the entire process our initial surrogacy journey in India before the it was banned, our blog post can be referenced at https://surrojourneyindia.wordpress.com/ 
/links
Thanks
bdust


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## lotus123

*Bdust,*
I also afraid of a lot of points of Biotexcom..and generally about surrogacy in total and what had happened with me half a year ago ( I was pregnant with the second baby... but during delivery on 41 week my baby boy has died and now unfortunately i never can be pregnant due to total hysterectomy....) 
I've spent a lot of time choosing clinic...and still I'm afraid of all of them...I don't know if our choice is good or not... 
And for us is already too late to change clinic - we've already signed contract and paid money. I hope that my story (at least this) would finished positive!
I know that in forums there a lot of people who write positive stories and posts about this clinic (and ton only this) - and this is Hidden advertisement 100%..and some negative information post their competitors (unfortunately not all negative information).
What about compensation - I also have asked this question to my manager and received answer (till 12 000 Eur in total) ..but of course this information it total does not mean anything...
So till now I can't say any negative and very positive moments ..too early...but I hope that after some months I might recommend this clinic and leave a positive review... I have no choices as the only hope for this now..
Although I'm looking for cheating everywhere...


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## Stilltryingandhoping

BDust 

That's brilliant information you've written about clinic options, it's exactly what a lot of people doing research need to get started. 

It took me months to go through the clinic options,but ultimately, it came down to money  and Biotexcom was the only option because we knew we may need to try multiple times. As is the case with so many people, as this clinic is the cheapest from what I saw at the time, and their guarantee of unlimited tries until success, lures people in.... and there is where the problem starts. Too many clients and a clinic that can't handle the work load, so everything goes downhill. 

Lotus123 
I really hope you get your happy ending. I know when we heard a few comments about the clinic, we ignored them and just focused on the surrogacy journey. In all honestly, I ignored it because I was desperate to have a child and fed up of doing the same thing so many times and failing. But when I went there and spoke to so many people who I met and got to know, and heard about their experience...well it was harder for me to ignore. That's why, now, That voice in my mind that is telling me to stop and think, has gotten louder.  I'm not saying that you've made the wrong decision signing with this clinic, but be careful with them and be aware of what is happening to other people. Maybe your exerience can be better if you are prepared for this. I wasn't prepared so hearing these things has shocked me. Also, no one has ever said that the surrogates may be  made to give birth outside of Kiev if you have an economy package. That's shocking.

S xx


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## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping,

Yes, It seems that I've prepared badly - haven't learned all information about Biotexcom and other clinics.. 
Nevertheless now I hope that my experience will be positive even so! And hope that your and all of us - their dreams come true without any significant problems!!!!!    
But about  giving birth outside of Kiev (in Kirovograd where Biotexcom has also their branch) - may be it is only for news clients who signed economy contracts... I don't know.

Am I right understood that you still haven't receive any feedback from clinic till now?


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## lotus123

As I know Russian and almost of us want to know how much will receive their SM, I've found information* about Biotexcom compensations to sm (I hope that this info will be useful for you, Sorry for my not good English):

*Payments:*
+Compensation for program - 8 000 eur. 
+ If twins - 10 000 eur
+ every month - 6 000 UAH (aprox. 215 eur)

*payment Schedule:*
Transfer of embryos - 100 eur
If HCG positive - 100 eur (after 2 weeks after ET) 
1st month - 200 eur (for program) + 3000 UAH (personal expenses) ± 3000 UAH (accommodation expense);
2nd month - 200 eur (for program) + 6000 UAH
3rd month - 1400 eur (for program) + 6000 UAH.

From the 3rd month clinic can provide apartments in Kiev (if sm needs), so in this case payments 3000 UAH (accommodation expense) will no be paid.

4th month - 200 eur + 6000 UAH.
5th month - 200 eur + 6000 UAH.
6th month - 200 eur + 6000 UAH.
7th month - 200 eur + 6000 UAH+ (200-300 eur - if pregnancy with 1 baby,300-400 eur - if twins (for childminder, if necessary)
8th month 200 eur + 3000 UAH (if twins, movement to Kiev on the 32nd week, payment only for personal expenses 3000 UAH.)
9th month - 5000 eur + 2000 eur (if twins) + 3000 UAH.

Closer to the 8th month - movement to Kiev for baby delivery.

All expenses such as medicines, vitamines, transportation, additional tests, consultations if necessary for pregnancy will compensate clinic. /links

* http://donorstvoyaytsekletok.com.ua/usloviya-programmy-oplata-za-surmaterinstvo/


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## Bella2016

Bdust- Your extensive research has put my what I thought 'good research' to shame! It seems like I have got more research to do.. Thank you for the tips re the clinics, I will try to contact a few more. 

It is interesting, because I always thought that using an agency would increase the cost, but in fact, I have found that it is not always the case. For instance, La Vita Nova (agency) offers an unlimited program for 37,900 EUR (all-inclusive program), which on top of the total costs for IVF, meds, unlimited attempts would also cover PGD services, accommodation, interpreter’s and pediatrician’s services, lawyers' fees and any costs incurred as a result of a miscarriage, ectopic pregnancy or complications during pregnancy or childbirth. If there is a twin pregnancy, an extra 1000 EUR must be paid and in case of a premature birth, IPs have to cover neonatal care and all else. However, Intersono (clinic) offers only one IVF cycle with own oocytes for 37,430 EUR and it doesn't include any of the above. Plus, in case of a twin pregnancy, 6000 EUR has to be paid on top of the price, plus neonatal care.. etc. They offer a guaranteed package for 54,900 EUR, which excludes twin pregnancy, lawyers expenses and also neonatal care. SHOCKING difference, would you not say? 

Lotus- Thanks for the info. Thats very baffling... why on earth would they refuse to give this info to English-speaking IPs if it is accessible to Russian-speaking IPs? I don't understand. Am I missing something??   

Does anyone know what happens in case of a stillbirth under a guaranteed/ unlimited program? Obviously, the SM would need to be paid, but would then the clinic offer another attempt without payment or would it incur extra costs? 
Bx


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Lotus123 

This is great. Did you get this from that website? How do you know these are the accurate amounts for Biotexcom? 

It's strange how they don't disclose this information to clients and out their mind at ease.

S x


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## lotus123

*Bella2016*, 
About stillbirth:
- if you have Economy contract:
_A positive result of pregnancy is a pregnancy that reaches the period of 12 weeks. Due to the terms of the
Agreement, if the surrogate mother has a miscarriage before 12 weeks of pregnancy, the Agency guarantees
the resumption of attempts with no additional charge for the Intended Parents. In case of
miscarriage, abortion or death of the child after 12 weeks the Agency takes all expenses for resumption of
attempts except for 6000 euros as a compensation for a surrogate mother, this amount is to be paid by the
Intended Parents._
- if you have standart and VIP contract - 
_the Agency guarantees the resumption of attempts with no additional charge for the Intended Parents._

*Bella2016, Stilltryingandhoping,*
Biotexcom hasn't given me this information (only total sum). This information I've found today via google and Russian social network - www.vk.com (https://vk.com/surrmamaa) and translated (with my bad English) for this Forum . /links
It seems that it is true (and the address on this site is the same as Biotexcom in Kiev and Kirovograd). In addition I have information that SM from Biotexcom can be fined if they break some rules...

I also now about compensation in _Clinic of Professor Feskov_. If you have contract with them, you will pay compensation 11 000 eur directly to sm, and almost all sm are from Kharkov (where is located this clinic).


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## Bella2016

Lotus- Thank you. What I meant is what happens if the baby is born dead at the end of pregnancy. Also, if the bay dies in the hospital? I know this is rare and we should not to even think about such tragedies, but it is best to be informed about all possibilities in advance, I say. Bx


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## lotus123

*Bella2016*, I also have asked such question to my manager before signing this contract (because my second baby has died just after birth). She told they haven't such bad experience and this case will be considered individually (if baby will be with serious diseases or will die after/during delivery)... So unfortunately this question isn't mention in the contract


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## Bella2016

Lotus- I am so very sorry to hear that you lost your second baby!     This is anyone's worst fear... I see. I have not seen any info about this in any of the contracts I have received from various clinics so far, which is why I asked... xx


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## Bdust

@Bella2016, at the end of the day, its a numbers problem with the cost. However, some context should help. The true cost of IVF is pretty low. All in with medication, I would estimate $5000 or less. Add in PGD if needed and it pushes to say $6000. Thus at a base level in my estimate, clinics can offer a package of 2 surrogacy tries including lawyer fees and all for about $20,000 -25,000 with the SM getting say $12,000 - $15,000 of the total amount. Also remember that foreigners pay a premium with a higher price than the locals typically do. There is always a margin for agencies baked in. In the instance where the cost for the clinic is higher than the quote from the agency, it is likely that the agency negotiated a lower cost with the clinic to start with. It always comes down to the numbers and everyone in the chain makes a profit as this is not a charity business. When you see a shocking difference in price, there is always an explanation and if you dig deeper into the numbers and compare to the actual cost of the process, you can usually identify where the additional cost is coming from. For example looking through 6 different quotes I received, I see the average lawyer fee to be about $1000 and then I see a quote with a $5000 lawyer fee which is out of line. Lawyers in Ukraine simply don't cost $5,000 unless you choose to retain an entire law firm or something similar. 

Thus when you see a package offer of say $35,000 to $40,000 it includes more than a healthy margin from what it actually cost. So a "guaranteed package" already charged you the cost of said guarantee as the amount you stated, already pays for so many tries from the base amount of what the actual cost is. As @stilltryingandhoping mentioned, it comes down to affordability in a lot of instances and decisions have to be made based on family finances which trumps almost everything else and you cant blame people for choosing this option. Its not an easy road and neither is it straight forward. 

The contract the we signed in India covered most scenarios that the clinic could think of and I read every line of the contract multiple times over just for my own sanity. One of the reasons we chose the clinic in India at the time was that it provided life insurance which IP's paid for, to cover the SM in case she lost her life in the process..say at child birth for example. We all pray for nothing to happen but things do happen. This guaranteed that the SM's family would get paid way above the fee she would have got for a successful delivery. If the baby was born with illness that was not a direct fault of the SM, then the IP's were responsible from birth......etc I don't feel comfortable leaving things to chance as there could be too many interpretations of who was or is responsible for what when things go wrong. A good contract should cover these scenario's from the start because bad things happening are not avoidable just by the laws of nature.

@Lotus123, the information you found is ok, but it has to be directly posted on the clinics website and or communicated in writing from the clinic to the IP's otherwise it cant considered it valid.  Information from people is good for reference but the clinics have to confirm the details in writing otherwise, they can't be held accountable for something they did not commit to. Even with the time I have put in to do this research, I am sure I have missed multiple things, but I rest on the fact that I at least tried to do what I could and in some instances that decision is out of our hands due to the cost of the process and what one can afford. Its the unavoidable human condition in full effect


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## Bella2016

Bdust- I agree. Even though guaranteed packages can be more pricey, especially if the first attempt is successful, I'd still go for the guaranteed package with unlimited attempts, because I would feel more secure knowing that we can try as many times as needed until we succeed and at least we don't have to worry about getting the money together for the next cycle.  
La Vita's contract also offers health and life insurance for the SM and yes, if a baby is born with an illness/disability, then IPs are responsible. The only thing I haven't found in the contract is what happens in case of a stillbirth/ baby dying after birth. Also, there is no info about unlimited attempts in the contract. Although, I only have the 'pregnancy-carrying' contract, so I wonder if there is a 'guaranteed-package' contract.... I will  ask about this. Or is this just something that clinics/agencies don't put in their contracts? I would just feel more comfortable signing a piece of paper that says 'in case of an unsuccessful cycle or miscarriage, another cycle will be started without additional payment' or something similar. Otherwise, how would we know that they will honour their promise? 
Like you, I read every single line a hundred times and I email the clinics with every single question and worry I have.. However, we cannot control things and even when we feel we know 'everything', we are still dealing with a lot of uncertainties. But as you say, at least we know we tried our best.


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi everyone

I sent that price schedule to the head of the English department at BioTexCom and she said is completely out of date and she doesn't know where I would have found it. She also asked that if we present that schedule, wouldn't it completely contradict British requirements as there are payments to the surrogate.

I wonder is the reason Biotexcom are very hesitant to give payment to surrogate information to IP's is because they think this. I'm waiting to hear back from her as I'm trying to press her for accurate amounts. 

My manager never replied to me, I sent another message to one of her assistants who said that they don't know how long it would take to find another surrogate but it could take some time. In the meantime, I will try to get my managers attention and see if I can chat with her about my concerns. 

S xx


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## lotus123

Hello to everyone!

Bdust, you take this question you with great responsibility and pedantry! Well done! Good luck to you in this not easy journey!

Stilltryingandhoping, great idea!!!Share this information when you get a reply from clinic! Sorry to hear from you about your manager ... this is exactly unacceptable, if she doesn't answer you! In this situation this clinic should provide another manager, who will operatively answer you on all your questions!

I have news: today I've done blood test and scan and resent them to my manager. So they have given me green light and I've already have done my first injection!!!!
So I don't know what to wait...just further instructions from clinic...hoping in the next few days


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## Denmommy

hi, ladies! i've been missing here for a while, many things happened but the major among all is that our Ukrainian surrogate is pregnant!  they confirmed it with ultrasound just two days before New Year. Two embryos were transferred, only one stick. Those of you who are also with Biotex, do they really send you all scans and tests result every month? I know that the next important step is 12 weeks scan, but it's so much time. 
I hope they'll be informing us of SM's health and pregnancy more frequently  

good luck to all of you, ladies

it's a bendy way but it seems it's worth it


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## Bdust

@Stilltryingandhoping, tough that you are not getting the information you need in a timely manner. User @"Reptile Smile" over on the Surrogacy Georgia thread http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=299852.210 just successfully went through the UK process and has been sharing extensively his experience in working with the UK embassy and their requirements. Given that he has just success fully completed this process, it might be good to chat with him about the contracts layout...etc as the embassy process and requirements should be similar for Georgia and Ukraine for the UK.

@Denmommy, Congratulations!!!!! Wish your SM a smooth pregnancy and delivery.

@Bella2016, yes you are right that the language about unlimited tries has to be documented in a contract so you can have peace of mind that it is indeed unlimited. Otherwise its open to any interpretation. Please let us know what you find after following up with La Vita. Trying out best is what we can count on


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## Reptile Smile

I'm here!  (I follow all the threads on the Surrogacy boards).  Male, not female, BTW 

Biotexcom are at best misinformed about the legal process - payments to the overseas surrogate aren't at all an issue.  In theory, there's a maximum amount, though no Parental Order has ever been refused for paying too much.  However, our lawyer told us the critical thing was to ensure we paid the payments directly into the SM's account and not via the agency, as if we couldn't provide transparency for this process that is one of the things that could be an issue...


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## Bdust

@Reptile Smile, my sincere apologies  , no harm intended. @Peanutrain also corrected me of you being male and I updated the post right away . 

Thanks for chiming in regarding @stilltryingandhopings question.


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## Reptile Smile

Oh. no probs at all, on either count!


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## miamiamo

*Bdust*- congrats! Haven't you considered the option of ivf de with pgs ngs?


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## Bdust

@miamiamo,

I don't understand your question so please rephrase. Also not sure why the congrats, did you mean to send it to someone else?


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## lotus123

*Stilltryingandhoping*, How are you? Have you received any news from the clinic?


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## Bella2016

Bdust- I emailed La Vita and they got back to me within 10 mins! I was told that the contract they emailed me was a sample and so depending on what package we choose and whether we qualify for that particular package, the text of the contract will be different. So, if we are approved for the Unlimited Program, then they will prepare the appropriate contract forms, where the language about the unlimited attempts will be included. 

I also emailed 7 other clinics and agencies in the Ukraine last week, for peace of mind, so that I know that I researched more options. Only 3 got back to me. One of them only worked with an agency and the agency fee was 25000 EUR. I don't think so! Another one keeps ignoring my interest in their unlimited package and they keep offering me more expensive packages. The third one was IAAM and they told me that they would send me the contract as soon as I have a surrogate mother and egg donor (if needed), but not before. But how can I commit to them if I don't know what their terms and conditions are? Also, they said they have no different packages, they only offer one package. They described me the process of surrogacy, but I don't find that there is enough info and/or transparency re what happens if something goes wrong or if the cycle fails or the SM miscarries. I assume these might be included in the contract.. but I cant read it.

I also had a meeting with someone from New Life Georgia. She was lovely and listened to our needs and concerns, so we are in talk with them ATM. I really like their transparency, attitude and responsiveness. They said they are working on an unlimited program package, too. So, we will see. I will also contact other clinics in Georgia. 

Reptile Smile- Congrats on your successful surrogacy journey and welcome home! 

Hi to everyone else. xx


----------



## lotus123

Hello, to All,

All quietened down in this topic...
No any activity...

I also have no news. Still waiting green light from clinic for starting stimulation or other instructions...
Today is the 7th day from my first injection...
Now I don't know how long to wait and dates for booking my air tickets...


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## michellemichelle

hi everyone
I have seen that this thread has become really active these days
and after reading all of your comments I do not know what to think as I have been opting for Ukrainian clinic biotex for the longest time and now I have even sent my arrivals to my coordinator. 
I just do not really get all of the complaints as obviously I didn't have any experience over there but something has been putting me off after I started reading your comments.
I was told that biotex has unlimited attempts contracts and that in vip one they will restart the program all over again if for example, surro loses the baby. But wouldn't it be stupid for them to treat surros awfully? Like they would be lowering the chances of pregnancy and just wasting their money.
hm
I don't know, maybe I am wrong. 
PS I am sorry for all of your bad feelings and bad experience. Hope you feel better!
PPS about communication, the coordinator I was talking to was replying directly. I was worried that they would not even write me back...


----------



## lotus123

Dear michellemichelle,

My thoughts are similar as yours...
So It give me hope that for us this journey will be positive (process and result)  
We've even have sign contract with Biotexcom and after that only I've read there some not good feedback...
Of course I still have doubts and I'm afraid of all of it... And all this journey (not only in this clinic) isn't easy.

So when are you goint to visit this clinic for the first time?


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## michellemichelle

lotus123, hi! do you think we can believe those prices really? I mean, on that website you've shared I haven't found any mention of biotex clinic (or am I blind?). are you really sure that it is biotex? 
it is really interesting, though. 
But what about that other clinic La vita? Does anyone know how much this clinic pays their surrogate mothers? Because to be quite honest it makes me suspicious about everything (even though I do not know what to think about all of this yet)


----------



## michellemichelle

lotus123 said:


> Dear michellemichelle,
> 
> My thoughts are similar as yours...
> So It give me hope that for us this journey will be positive (process and result)
> We've even have sign contract with Biotexcom and after that only I've read there some not good feedback...
> Of course I still have doubts and I'm afraid of all of it... And all this journey (not only in this clinic) isn't easy.
> 
> So when are you goint to visit this clinic for the first time?


I was planning it to be next week, we have already bought tickets and stuff...
I really hope your program will end up greatly! But what is your own experience? I mean, how was it for you, you say that you have already signed with the clinic so I assume there hasn't been any issue with this part? 
I am always doubtful.. but nevertheless, I keep moving forward.


----------



## michellemichelle

Bdust, what about "not being able to see your babies until the day 4?". First of all, this is stupid, second of all, I was told by the coordinator that we can meet our kids right after the birth, at the same day.  
who told you that...? 
Sorry.. I just have to collect all of the points of views and as I was planning to visit Biotex, I want to know that it is still relevant because I haven't found anything that would be putting off for me and especially after I read this forum, I registered here so I could read the threads considering fertility clinics all over the world and in particular surrogacy options and I was really glad that everyone seemed to be very satisfied with biotex so I have decided to stick with them too...


----------



## lotus123

*michellemichelle,* prices are real . 
The main problem is nottransparency... 
In Biotexcom you can't choose SM and see her till 12weeks, you don't know the actual amount of payments. And the main contract is signed with offshore company.
Moreover a lot of people not satisfied with their communication quality and speed..
And as I've understood such situations are not only in this clinic in Ukraine....

About La vita - please read this forum. Someone from members has written information about it. I can't comment it.


----------



## Sharky

Girls, I have e feeling that the speed and quality of the feedback from Biotexcom depends on the type of contract (meaning amount of money)...


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## lotus123

michellemichelle,
In December we had our first visit to this clinic and we've signed Economy contract.
One week ago I've done my first injection and now I'm waiting for further instructions from my manager....and I hope that EC will be in February.


----------



## michellemichelle

Sharky said:


> Girls, I have e feeling that the speed and quality of the feedback from Biotexcom depends on the type of contract (meaning amount of money)...


hm you may be right but given the number of this forum users who are the clients of biotex I really think that they just cannot keep up with this number of clients and sometimes maybe they do not have time.
I was talking to them on Saturday and they were replying with the speed of light. so I suppose it was because the clinic was not that full and they had some time off??


----------



## michellemichelle

lotus123 said:


> *michellemichelle,* prices are real .
> The main problem is nottransparency...
> In Biotexcom you can't choose SM and see her till 12weeks, you don't know the actual amount of payments. And the main contract is signed with offshore company.
> Moreover a lot of people not satisfied with their communication quality and speed..
> And as I've understood such situations are not only in this clinic in Ukraine....
> 
> About La vita - please read this forum. Someone from members has written information about it. I can't comment it.


nottransparency? what do you mean, could you explain, please? I get the point about surro's payments though
But I have never considered it as an important thing meeting with the surrogate, just because she has no connection to a baby as I understand. I know that they have some controlling measures so the surros are being checked from time to time but I am more than satisfied with it.. maybe it is because I do not really want to meet my surrogate just because I think it'd be too painful for me to take my child from her... 
and as I have told I haven't experienced any communication problems at all.. 
Really? have you visited other clinics?
PS how do you know they are real?


----------



## michellemichelle

lotus123 said:


> michellemichelle,
> In December we had our first visit to this clinic and we've signed Economy contract.
> One week ago I've done my first injection and now I'm waiting for further instructions from my manager....and I hope that EC will be in February.


what about your surrogate mother? 
Fingers crossed you get the instructions soon!


----------



## michellemichelle

I wrote to my coordinator and now I am waiting for her to reply. Maybe she will shed a light on all of this...


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi everyone

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply.

So here's my update...
So far we are still waiting. As you all know, I got negative result on December 23rd and was told to wait until after the holidays as clinic was closed. On jan 9th we messages to ask or manager what's going on and when can we try again. No response. On Monday I had a message from another woman I met at the clinic hat why will try their second attempt at the end of January. She just received her negative a few days earlier. So I messaged my manager again and asked her why we are still waiting when they are clearly matching surrogates to couples very fast. I know for a fact that they told me economy and standard package waiting times are the same. She fobbed me off and said I just have to wait.

I've even asked them if upgrading from economy to standard will make a difference for us, I'm willing to pay more money if it means they actually communicate with us and treat us better. But I have a feeling it would be lost on them and it wouldn't help.

I also message the head of the English department to find out about the payments to the surrogates. 
The ones Lotus123 found are incorrect! The clinic will not say what they pay. I have a feeling it is only around 3k in total that the surrogate receives because since that website, the economy of Ukraine had changed a lot. I also demanded to change my manager as she is very rude and doesn't reply at all, and they basically refused. I have yet to receive answers to my last email with questions about the surrogates circumstances and how they are cared for.

Michelle Michelle
Good luck with your trip out there. I suggest that you ask who your manager will be because we assumed it would be the lady who had been emailing me the months leading up to the first visit to the clinical. I saw that she communicated well and slways got back to me promptly. When we signed contracts, later we found out that we now had no dealings with this lady and our manager is someone else who never bothers to reply to messages.

It's completely your decision if you want to use them. I did the same thing as you and read through forums and reviews online, and a lot of the are clearly fake. Which is why I started my surrogacy diary, so I could share a real experience. It's your call, if you decide to use them or not.

S xx

 edited by FF moderation team


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## lotus123

michellemichelle,

nottransparency..I mean - not 100% transparency... at leaset that this contract is signed with offshore company and some things with SM.
I also still don't know if I want to see and get acquainted with our future SM... My HB told that he categorically doesn't want!

I haven't visited other clinics, but I've communicated with Vitavitoria and Feskov clinic in Ukraina.

Prices real..how I know? I've already have sighed my contract and have paid our first payment. So the contracts and their prices in Biotexcom are the same as in real is needed to sign and paid.

Till now (and till 12 weeks of pregnancy) I haven't know any ideas of our SM. I can propose that till now maybe the clinic hasn't found and matched her to us... But  I hope that they will do it in next few days


----------



## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping,

Thank you for your updated information!!!

I'm so sorry about your negative aspects of this journey...
Before signing our contract I've asked ...at least 5 times to our manager about the difference in attitude to IP and SM in different contracts. And every time she tell me that attitude in all contracts is the same, and the difference is only in services mentioned in contract (accommodations etc.).

What about payments to SM - I can't understand why it is so privily. I've found similar sums in other Russian and Ukrainian sites.. and they +/- are the same. So of course I don't know exactly but I'm confident that SM receive more then 3000 Eur - 8000 Eur+ other monthly compensations.

Good luck to you!!! Hoping that you don't wait for a long time for your lovely second attempt!!!! 

May be


----------



## michellemichelle

Stilltryingandhoping, I am so sorry you have been waiting for so long.... I just hope that all of that rudeness comes from lots of work, maybe she is very busy... 
hm, who is the head of English department?
I am talking to Anastasia I think, she is really good at her job, that's why I was so easily convinced that we should go for biotex because she helped us with a lot of questions. 
Thank you! still waiting for their reply. I will ask her if she is our manager for the rest of the program or not.


----------



## michellemichelle

lotus123 said:


> michellemichelle,
> 
> nottransparency..I mean - not 100% transparency... at leaset that this contract is signed with offshore company and some things with SM.
> I also still don't know if I want to see and get acquainted with our future SM... My HB told that he categorically doesn't want!
> 
> I haven't visited other clinics, but I've communicated with Vitavitoria and Feskov clinic in Ukraina.
> 
> Prices real..how I know? I've already have sighed my contract and have paid our first payment. So the contracts and their prices in Biotexcom are the same as in real is needed to sign and paid.
> 
> Till now (and till 12 weeks of pregnancy) I haven't know any ideas of our SM. I can propose that till now maybe the clinic hasn't found and matched her to us... But I hope that they will do it in next few days


as I was told we should be allowed to meet the surrogate mother on her 12 week. not earlier. and they had to explain why there haven't been any instructions coming, as I know this is all indeed because of the surrogate matching process. It can take longer than you expect I assume


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Michelle Michelle

Anastasia is the head of the English department. She's great at answering questions and getting people to come sign with the clinic. Unfortunately I signed up with them based on her communication. She isn't the person who manages clients. English clients will be managed by a lady called Lida. She is our manager.


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## michellemichelle

Stilltryingandhoping said:


> Hi Michelle Michelle
> 
> Anastasia is the head of the English department. She's great at answering questions and getting people to come sign with the clinic. Unfortunately I signed up with them based on her communication. She isn't the person who manages clients. English clients will be managed by a lady called Lida. She is our manager.


oh really? I def thought it will be Anastasia who will be our coordinator. But maybe they just share their clients? 
Please update us when you receive anything from biotex!!!!


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## minerva71

Hello everyone! I got here by accident and after reading the last pages I'm now concerned about the things you were discussing. 
First of all I'd like to congratulate those, whose SM's are pregnant and the only thing you can do is waiting for their scans and health state info. So wish everything to be alright.

but some things you mentioned here are weird to me, i.e you worry about not having an opportunity to choose a SM but what for? I'm going through IVF and I understand that it's extremely important to choose an egg donor because her genes matter...but here, you all know that she has no genetic relation to your baby and to me it's obvious that doctors can match her better taking into consideration some medical aspects. Then some of you want to know her/his surrogate's every step, right? To meet her before 12th week, to hold her hand while she's delivering a baby, well to be the part of her life. Don't you think it's a bit selfish? A friend of mine was a SM and I remember her complaining of IPs all the time, they didn't give her a space to live her own life, they even tried to provide her with food they think is better for their future baby...of course it's exaggeration but your passionate attitude towards SM's may lead to this. You want your SM to get more money, well find another clinic or agency where she can get 15-20k for singleton, why not? But are you sure that she really gets all the money? Btw, why don't you ask how much money all the med staff get? And they are actually those who helped your SM to conceive... Just because of my curiosity I googled and well, I didn't get information about SM's 'portion' in every clinic dealing with it. If her money is the most important part of becoming parents, why don't you go to the USA? I'm sure you'll find more transparent prices there...or you may ask your friend to carry a baby for you and she'll get almost every cent.

Maybe I just don't get it because I'm not going through surrogacy...


----------



## Dory10

Hello everyone

In light of recent posts regarding Ukrainian clinics, here is some information..



Caz said:


> Tony Reid said:
> 
> 
> 
> Defamation and Libel
> 
> 1. What are defamation and libel?
> 
> Defamation is any published material that damages the reputation of an individual or an organisation. This covers material on the internet as well as radio and television broadcasts - so even drama and fiction can be defamatory if they damage someone's reputation. You can only publish defamatory material if it comes within one of the recognised legal defences. If it doesn't, the publication will amount to libel and you may have to pay substantial damages.
> 
> Libel online
> 
> Slander is 'defamation by word of mouth'
> Internet sites are not exempt from any libel laws. If you are publishing on the internet you are bound by the same libel laws as print publishers.
> 
> In a significant ruling in 2002, the Australian high court ruled that mining magnate Joseph Gutnick could sue publisher Dow Jones under Australian law for alleged libel online. The judge deemed that the web was no different from newspapers or television.
> 
> In the UK, internet service providers are coming under increasing pressure to close sites containing defamatory allegations. You also have to be careful about the comments others post on your site. There have been cases where individuals have sued online publishers for libel over customer book reviews published on their sites.
> 
> Such developments have implications for freedom of expression.
> 
> The purpose of libel law
> Libel law protects individuals or organisations from unwarranted, mistaken or untruthful attacks on their reputation. A person is libelled if a publication:
> 
> * Exposes them to hatred, ridicule or contempt
> 
> * Causes them to be shunned or avoided
> 
> * Discredits them in their trade, business or profession
> 
> * Generally lowers them in the eyes of right thinking members of society
> 
> For example, MORAL rights campaigner Victoria Gillick recently won a £5,000 settlement and an apology after taking libel action against the Brook Advisory Centre, a charity which gives sex advice to young people, over allegations that Brook had suggested Mrs Gillick "bore a moral responsibility" for an increase in pregnancies among teenagers. A fact sheet published by Brook contained the heading "What caused the teenage conception rate to rise in the 1980s?", and listed a legal action brought by Mrs Gillick against the Department of Health over contraception guidelines as one of the causes.
> 
> 2. Getting facts right
> 
> The most important point is to make absolutely sure that what you are printing or writing is true. Do not make claims or accusations that you cannot prove. Even if you think you can do this, be cautious. Proving things in court can be very difficult.
> 
> And the test of what the words mean is what a reasonable reader is likely to take as their natural and ordinary meaning, in their full context - what you intended as the author or publisher is irrelevant.
> 
> If you write something that cannot be substantiated the credibility of your site, organisation or cause may be questioned. It can also land you with an expensive lawsuit and there is no legal aid for libel cases.
> 
> The burden of proof lies with the defendant
> Almost uniquely in English law, in libel cases the burden of proof lies with the author / publisher and not the complainant. In other words, you have to prove that what you write is true. The person you've targeted does not have to prove that you're wrong.
> 
> McLibel
> In 1990 McDonalds served a libel writ on several members of a campaigning organisation over the production and distribution of the 'What's Wrong with McDonalds?' leaflet. The legal battle between Helen Steel and David Morris, a gardener and a postman, and the McDonalds corporation became one of the most famous cases in British legal history, not least because it became the longest running British trial.
> 
> To win the case, the pair would have to prove from primary sources the truth of their allegations about McDonalds. After hearing all the evidence, the judge (who did find that some of the allegations were true) ruled that the pair had libelled McDonalds because the evidence they called was not enough to prove the majority of their statements. They were ordered to pay damages of £60,000. The trial was estimated to have cost millions of pounds in legal fees.
Click to expand...

Please consider what you write carefully.

Sending lots of positive thoughts your way

Dory
Xx

Surrogacy Board Moderator


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Minerva71

The reason it is important to get the information about what the surrogate gets paid is for 2 reasons. 

Firstly, British courts will ask for this in detail when IPs apply for parental order.
Secondly, if a clinic is vague about this, is raises questions. Why would they block this information? 

As Dory pointed out, there's risk  to sharing  bad experiences with any clinic online due to people being scared of being taken to court. This is probably the reason why I couldn't get a true picture of how patients feel who are using this particular clinic. It's completely fine for anyone to create an account and say wonderful things about a clinic....

Despite me trying to stick to facts, and having emails/viber and ******** messages to back everything up, I will be starting my own blog rather than carrying on my diary in this website. I don't want to out this websites hosts in a difficult position, and would like to share my experience without it being edited.  

When I've set it up, I'll happily share a link with anyone who wants it. I do wish everyone Luck in their journey!


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## Elkar43

I agree with Minerva. You can go to USA, their surrogacy programs cost like 150k and more but surro mothers receive about 40k and everything is as transparent as it can be (but I do not know much about other stuff as I have researched up until I found out about their prices.. unfortunately I do not have that much money...)

Stilltryingandhoping, could you send us a link to it? I am really interested in how it all turns out.


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## Kir

To the best of my knowledge, we all here are intelligent so let's respect each other and our thoughts. I know that all of you have own points of view. It's obvious. But I think, this is the matter of that people who making their journey in clinic. If you are not satisfied with all the conditions - you are welcome to leave. Sorry for my words. I just want to protect people who really get their babies and gain happiness. It makes no difference how much money was given to the surromother. If you want to pay more just do it. As I understand , all these women knew about prices and conditions. So we are not allowed to judge them. 
Is there any mother from biotex who are complying about clinic? I think no. So, let's respect a little all them for their lifestyles. 

I am not supporting this clinic and not against them. I just want us to be polite and understand other people. That is life and we are willing to choose what we want.

Thank you for reading.


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## minerva71

@Stilltryingandhoping 
Well, now I get it...i didn't know why it's so important to you. But if so, the clinic wouldn't give you any information? Hard to believe, as I always got my replies within a day, but you're right, I have another manager. I'm concerned a little...I see your message was moderated but cannot catch what was edited. 
I would love to get a link to your blog when it's created.


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## juicy23

Hello ladies! 
I finally got some time to post here as I wanted. I expected to share my positive experience but now I see, that some things should be clarified. I didn't manage to read all pages all the more so I read at least 10 before. Well, I have a few questions to a person who seems to me rather suspicious.

@BlueCloud
I just wanted to figure out which clinic did you choose for surrogacy? I looked through your posts and don't have a clue what's wrong with all those places you've mentioned. At first you posted that you are going to make a research on Ukrainian clinics biotexcom, new life and intersono..in a 6 months you're cycling with IAAM and Nadiya clinic and told that while waiting for your SM to be matched by Jan 17 and your 'embryos are already created and waiting to be transferred' 
BUT 
in 2 daysin another your post it goes "IAAM is still finding a surrogate for us so we thought to create and freeze the embryo so save a bit of time"...well, it's pretty odd, one day you have embies and then you just want to create them to freeze and you only hope to sign a contract in Jan. 

Then you thought about USA like an option, told that Ukrainian clinic ISIDA "no longer accept a surrogate from her agency"...whose agency? And you had a consultation in London?  But just in 2 days you have 3 embryos to transfer and asking who is also with Nadiya.

Then you are telling that you were put off by Biotexcom because its representatives didn't give you any information about how much they pay their SMs and don't allow you to meet her before 12th week; at the same time IAAM with Nadya are so good for you even though they promised you to find a SM a month earlier. A month of delay it's OK?

And the last post "I think IAAM does have some packages but we couldn't go with that as we need PGD for genetic reasons"...so I can't understand, what's going on with your treatment? What's with your SM?


----------



## Denmommy

Hi all! Oh, it seems a missed smth here recently, much to comment and some questions yet. a bit busy now, so I'll get back here later when my kid gets to sleep. Now we wants me to draw a tree with him, so have to quit now
Lotus123, haven't contacted with you for a while. Any news? Have you started your hormonal stimulation yet?


----------



## Bdust

Lots of activity, passion, accusations, questioning people's experiences and feedback.........etc being thrown around. Very interesting posts I must say.

The goal of this forum is to support each other through the process and share actual experiences so people are informed. Not fake reviews, name calling....etc. One cannot discount another persons point of view just because they don't agree or are having a different experience. One's different experience does not invalidate another persons experience.

This process is expensive and emotionally draining to start with, and transparency is important to most people and not at all to other people. The choice of clinic is up to everyone to make based on the information they have and what is important to them. If anyone is not interested in what a surrogate mother gets paid, then go right ahead. Just know that if SM's are treated like dirt, it will all flow downhill. If anyone feels they don't want to meet the surrogate mother until 12weeks or not at all, then go right ahead. If anyone wants their baby delivered to their homes like a package with no questions asked, by all means go right ahead. The decision and associated risk is yours to make based on whats important to you and the legal framework. However, calling direct feedback from an IP that stated that they were not able to see their babies until day 4 "stupid" by @michellemichelle is not worth a response. 

Does anyone have a problem with people sharing their feedback irrespective of what they were told by the clinic or their contract says? Or are people more comfortable with calling people they know nothing about names like "stupid" or telling someone to go to the USA if they want transparency?... There are good and no so good clinics everywhere, and Ukraine is no different, just like there are honest and fake reviews of clinics all over the web. @Stilltryingandhoping is sharing her real frustrations per her actual experience with facts, meanwhile others seem to be spending more time trying to discount her experience with little to nothing to back it up.

There are many transparent clinics in Ukraine, based on my current engagement with most clinics to request detailed information, so its not a case of all Ukrainian clinics are bad. Just be sure to carefully consider and choose a clinic. Many clinics in Ukraine, list in much detail, the cost of the process and specific payments to SM's and I am currently reading through many of the responses I got as well as reviewing some contracts in detail. Just be sure to request your information directly from the clinic, as clinics cannot be held liable for information that they did not provide to you directly. Information about specific surrogate mother payments and other terms on this forum, only apply if the clinic provided it directly to the IP, so don't take the word of posts on any forum as legally binding.

Good luck to all. It's a rocky road out there, with many fake posts to make things even more complicated. As with all things, YMMV.


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Kir

I completely understand what you are saying. When I signed up with my clinic and then read some negative comments about that clinic later, I actually felt a lot like you do now. I completely advocate a woman's right to choose what she wants to do with her body. Everyone should be able to choose for themselves. 
I don't want to argue my point too much or keep repeating myself as I said most of this already, but i feel that from my personal experience, I need to revisit some of the questions I asked before I signed my contract. Too many alarm bells have been ringing for me. This has heppened for me after I spoke to people I met when I was there.

I want to stress that this is just MY opinion and MY personal experience. I'm happy that not every person has this experience, I wouldn't wish anyone to be stressed or unhappy. It's a very personal choice, and everyone is different. People need to decide for themselves. The reason I have shared as much as I have with everyone about my experience is quite simply to give an honest account of it so people can decide for themselves. I've written good and bad so far in my diary. 

I hope everyone has success in the least stressful way, whatever path they follow  

Minerva71
No I have tried to get information about this since before September and I keep going round in circles. At first I wasn't too bothered, I wanted to just know so I can write it for parental order when I have a baby and bring it home. As time has gone on, it bothers me more because in a way I don't understand why the big secret? It's my money that's going to be paying the surrogate so why can't I know? Some uk lawyers suggest that we as IPs only pay the surrogate directly so we can easily prove to the court how much she received. I've been silly to end up in a situation now where we may have a lot of trouble getting a parental order if we can't get this information accurately later. We will have to see what happens, my husband and I are both very confused and still considering  pulling out of our agreement. We haven't decided yet.


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## lotus123

Denmommy,
No, only the first injection Diphereline 3.75. Today is the 8th day after that.
I hope that I 'll receive any news and instructions on the next week.
Till now I don't feel any change in my body and health.. I hope that nonetheless this injections has been done ok and it worked...

Stilltryingandhoping, thank you for sharing your story! I hope that your diary will continuous and further..if not here so please inform us where we can read it


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Lotus123 

I was the same when I had that injection. Then maybe about 10 days after the injection, I started getting some slight symptoms like hot flushes. And I got a rash like hives randomly at one point. Don't worry if you don't see any changes or symptoms, I know it can be a bit daunting. 

Den mommy I ready your blog! So exciting. I hope they give you some news or update in your surrogate soon


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## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping, Yes? So the 10th day will be on Sunday... I will check my health one more time! )))
Thank you for info


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

I forgot to mention, I will set up the link to a blog when it's up and running. 

I will be working on another very exciting project also- I had an editor approach me about writing a book! It's going to document my whole journey from finding out about our infertility right through to actually having a baby(so this may take some time to complete). We will also be creating a personal blog or documentary with a filmmaker friend. We aren't sure which one yet but it's all really exciting. 

Keeping a surrogacy diary on this website has really helped me , is a fantastic feature and brilliant that the facility is there for people to share their experiences. I really hope
More of you decide to use it and share your stories with the rest of us. 

Lotus123 
The clinic asked me to have a scan 2 weeks after the Diphereline 3.75 injection, and then the next day they gave me instructions about when to start taking the stimulation drugs and when to attend the clinic. I don't know if it's the same for everyone though.


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## Bella2016

Denmommy- Congratulations!
Lotus- Good luck!   
Stilltrying- thank you for you honesty and sharing your experiences. 
Bdust- well said!

Has anyone got any experience with the Professor Feskov clinic in Ukraine? They also offer an unlimited attempts economic package. 

Stilltrying- that's great! I agree, keeping a diary is very helpful. I have started documenting our infertility and. IVF journey too and it helps me process things and clear my head. I have also been thinking about writing a book.   Have you read Jessica Hepburn's book called the Pursuit of Motherhood? I met her at the Fertility Show 2 years ago and she inspired me. More people should def publish their stories. Good luck!!


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Bella

Thank you! I haven't read her book. To be completely honest I have met so many people and asked r about their experiences and followed their journeys this way...yet I've never read a book about someone's fertility journey. I guess in a lot of ways I was so consumed by what we were going through ourselves. 

I've been going to a lot of self awareness seminars and empowerment courses  to learn to be more open, so when I  begin to write, I can be completely open and share everything. With all this going on, it's actually the reason I haven't been able to write in my diary for a while. And also the reason why, although I will keep sharing my journey, I need to restrict it to key facts so I can save a lot of the content to be published. 

S x


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## hopeandpray

Hello, 

Stilltryingandhoping - I really feel for you. You must feel so helpless and frustrated by the lack of communication. I am due to sign with BioTexCom in March and I'm having real second thoughts reading this forum. I wish there was a trip advisor type site where you can read reviews on all clinics, see photos etc. 
I've this evening emailed LaVitaNova to see if they are worth seeing. 
My liaison person at the moment is Anastasia and I just assumed she would stay with us, I'm not so keen on being passed over to Lida who doesn't seem as responsive. 

Its such a huge decision picking a clinic, one that I've been trying to make for months!! 

X


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## Bella2016

Stilltrying- that all sounds amazing! I cant wait read read your book or watch a documentary of your journey. I have read a lot of books about others' fertility journeys, even men have written about it! I find them very therapeutic. But Jessica's book really captured the emotional side of what an IVF journey is like. It is a very sad book actually, as she didn't get her baby in the end, but it is a beautifully told story. Like you say, one must have their heart open to share their true story. 

Funny you should say that, because I told my friends that I would send the link of my IVF diary to them, so that they can have a better understanding. Then, I decided against it, because I thought that if I do end up writing a book then there won't be much else left for them to read about.   To be very honest, what might stop me from writing a book myself is that I could not be so open about everything. What I mean is that if we end up using donor eggs and have a baby, then I would not want anyone to know that we used donor eggs. Not much point in writing about it then, is there? I think I will only do it if we end up with no baby. So, the book can be my baby. 

Let us know how you get on.  

Bx

Hopeandpray- I also have been communicating with La Vita Nova for months and they are on the top of our list. I am now looking into The Prof Feskov clinic, but I have not heard anyone mention them before. x


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## hopeandpray

I've never heard of prof feskov but a quick google links him to a clinic 460km away from Kiev. Also he has an awful you tube video so I'm not too sure about him. But if you get any info on him please share. 
Will anybody else be staying in Ukraine alone? My husband can't get the  time off work so I'll be there alone. I'll obviously be getting a lot of visitors but still very daunting. I'm thinking of getting involved with the expat community so I'll have people to meet with whilst I'm there. 
X


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## Denmommy

The bonus of getting your tot to bed a bit earlier is a quiet night hour spent with your laptop . So as I’ve promised, I’m back to comment on your recent posts. 

Stilltryingandhoping, thank you for congratulations and your warm words. Starting a blog was an interesting new experience for me. Also, if reading my blog helped at least 1 person to sort things out – it’s the best reward for me. I’ll def keep posting on how we proceed and it’s yet a long way to go. I’d be great to read yours and I hope this time it’ll  be full of good news. I’m so sorry for your first negative attempt. Getting to know about negative on Christmas eve probably even sharpened your feelings. I can’t even imagine what you were feeling. Just around this time, we got our positive. Sure we were 7 up happy, but still my heart in never at rest. I knew it would be challenging, but I didn’t think it’d be so much challenging. I mean to realize that your flesh and blood is so far away. You’re in control of nothing. But you feel like you’d better be, after all this is your baby.

I hope they will give you a new attempt soon and what’s even more important – it’d be a success


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## Denmommy

Lotus123, I don’t know if feeling nothing special after diphereline injection is ok but as for me I also haven’t noticed any changes at this very stage. I was feeling quite different only around 2-3 days before eggs retrieval. I hope you’ll get their green light soon


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## Denmommy

Hopeandpray, a witty idea with trip advisor! That’d be great   It seems to me that this community is a prototype of infertility treatment trip advisor, isn’t it? However, you know what? even with all those tons of reviews on trip advisor, it’s also a bit tough to choose the perfect hotel/resort/villa/accommodation for yourself. At least for me it is. Maybe because reviews on smth is quite a personal thing: what is good for me might be inadmissible for you. and wise versa. One and the same thing can be interpreted differently by different people. that’s why there’s never pure black or pure white. There’re dozens of intermediate colors. 
Choosing fertility clinic wasn’t an easy decision for my family as there’re really a lot so we had to filter information. When we traveled to Kiev for the first time, we managed to visit three clinics, very quickly and abruptly but still – it facilitated our decision making greatly. We were tending to biotexcom since the very beginning and thus we stuck with them. Obviously it was the right decision – for us! Our surrogate is pregnant. We still can’t believe but from the very first attempt 

They offered 3 contracts. We signed for 39k. You know, it was a bit surprising for me to read that they have different attitude to clients with different contacts. Our contract is medium at price. We also needed to stand in lines to get to the doctor, as well as those with cheaper packages. It seems that with 49k contract, you won’t  stand in lines but I’m not sure. As to the matching time with surro, it was around 2 months. 

Now as to surros. They really don’t allow meeting surro before the 12th week. Of course, 12 weeks is a long period of time to wait. But believe me – if life puts you face to face with surrogacy, be ready to wait A LOT. That was obviously the thing I wasn’t absolutely ready for. 

Sorry for much reading above. Just wanted to share what I know and feel.

Good night everyone


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## Bdust

@stilltryingandhoping definitely looking forward to you blog, book.....etc where ever you post it

@Denmommy, your posts have been very helpful so please continue to share.

@Bella2016, I have been researching Prof Feskov's clinic and just sent you a PM. The distance from Kiev was not ideal but I saw that the local airline has twice daily flights from Kiev for about $50USD or less. Still work in progress


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## Proud-Dad-of-Twins

Haven't been logged on here in a while since I've been too busy at home with my super active, fun and energetic twin toddlers 

As I posted on this forum earlier, we were happy with our successful surrogacy process in Ukraine using La Vita Nova agency and Intersono clinic. We were really lucky that almost everything went very well in our surrogacy journey and I sincerely hope everyone here to become a happy parent soon!

When we started our surrogacy journey less than 3 years ago, we didn't spend much time doing extensive research and comparing various agencies/clinics, since at that time it was very difficult to get trustworthy, updated and helpful information from real people who had firsthand experience. 

We simply went with our gut feeling when choosing La Vita Nova and Intersono since we felt that they were serious, competent, and we could trust them. We knew that their surrogate mothers would not be exploited like in some other agencies/countries.


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## BlueCloud

Congratulations Denmommy!

Stilltrying, I will be waiting for your blog. 

Lotus, good luck with your stimulation. I generally feel bloated and very heavy a week after starting the injections. 

Bdust, you precisely described how i feel about choosing the clinics and sharing experiences. You are so articulate!

There has been some finger pointing etc happening on this forum lately. I am a genuine user who is so unfortunate to be here. If someone wants to see, i was on PGD blogs before. I just want to learn others experiences and share support for each other. This journey is hard and has taken everything from me to complete my dream family. I really don't care who is going with which clinic as its everyone's personal choice and based personal circumstances!! Not all of have enough money  to go USA or are genetically perfect or able to carry a child full term.  I am not sure if IAAM is the right choice i have made or not, only time will tell..........


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## Denmommy

Hope4Spring said:


> Haven't been logged on here in a while since I've been too busy at home with my super active, fun and energetic twin toddlers
> 
> As I posted on this forum earlier, we were happy with our successful surrogacy process in Ukraine using La Vita Nova agency and Intersono clinic. We were really lucky that almost everything went very well in our surrogacy journey and I sincerely hope everyone here to become a happy parent soon!
> 
> When we started our surrogacy journey less than two years ago, we didn't spend much time doing extensive research and comparing various agencies/clinics, since at that time it was very difficult to get trustworthy, updated and helpful information from real people who had firsthand experience.
> 
> We simply went with our gut feeling when choosing La Vita Nova and Intersono since we felt that they were serious, competent, and we could trust them. We knew that their surrogate mothers would not be exploited like in some other agencies/countries.


That's awesome that you had positive experience with this agency/clinic but where did you get information that in other clinics surrogates are being exploited? it's 21st century and Ukraine is a developed European country with well regulated legal norms and justice. they all give their consent for being a surro. as far as I know, only one of 10 women is approved for being SM. Lotus123 provided us with genuine info on how much surros are being compensated. A sum of around 10k euro per year is a huge amount for most regions of Ukraine, not the capital I mean. Taken that average retirement compensation is around 50 euros per months and you can buy a house in the village for 5k.


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## Denmommy

Bdust and Bluecloud, thanks a lot!


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## Proud-Dad-of-Twins

@Denmommy: There were discussions about this topic on this thread here earlier, if you could read those pages you would understand what I mean. Some agencies in Ukraine do not have a transparent process to pay for their surrogate mothers.  

Ever since international commercial surrogacy gained popularity several years ago, there have been many media reports about surrogate mothers being exploited in some countries, which is one of the main reasons some countries have banned the practice. 

@All others: Ever since I joined this forum and a few other online surrogacy forums, I've got an uneasy feeling that some posts might be written by agency/clinic representatives and faked clients, which makes it very hard for the real clients who are looking for trustworthy information, honest feedback and sincere support. In the other forum in my home country this has been discovered by the administrator/moderator who checked out the unique IP addresses of those suspicious posts.


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## Bdust

@Hope4Spring,

I agree with you regarding the false postings by agency/clinic representatives and faked clients on a lot of online forums, including this forum. People need to be aware and read between the lines of the posts they find on all forums. 

I don't know if the admin of this forum can help with the IP address checking to mitigate this issue


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## lotus123

Hello!!!

*Bella,* about Clinic of Feskov - I've just have contacted with them via Viber and have received agreements from them. If you are interested - I can resend them to you.
Prices of guaranteed package is higher then in Biotex + not included apartments + food. IP pay to SM directly 11 000 EUR. Mostly of SM are local - from Kharkov. Clinic can transfer you from Kiev airport.

*Stilltryingandhoping*, Wau! Even book!? It's very interesting and useful for a lot of people!!!! Amazing idea!


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## lotus123

Dear margirl,

Am I right understood that you already have baby/babies through the Biotexcom clinic? When it was?


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## lotus123

margirl said:


> You're absolutely right. Mark was born in Ukraine 2 years ago. We were taking part in surr program promoted by biotex.


Congratulations!
But if you have "received" so good result two years - why you have written in their forum in July-August about your interest of Ukrainian clinic which can provide surrogacy programs?
I have got confused....


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Happy Monday morning everyone!

DenMommy - just to make you aware that from what I have been told, the surrogates gets paid €200a month compensation, and then just compensation on her individual expenses (things like if she needs a babysitter or had to miss work). The website that Lotus123 found are not the right figures. The English head of department told me those are just out of date and she didn't even know where i found them, she said they were incorrect.

Lotus123 
Thank you &#128522; it's going to be challenging, but I feel more people need to speak about infertility. There's a big taboo surrounding the subject in a lot of communities and countries, but this issue affects so many people .

Hope4spring
I know what you mean about fake posters and agency posts etc it's very easy to spot and unfortunately this type of thing is difficult to stop. But luckily, it's becoming more obvious to some of us  so we can ignore those posts.

 edited


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## Bella2016

Lotus- Thank you for the info, it's kind of you. Actually,the Prof Feskov clinic has a cheaper unlimited package, which includes food and accommodation as far as I understand from their contract, but I will email them to confirm this. But they didn't send me this package first. I think the package you are talking about is the VIP package, isn't it? That's very pricey. x

 edited


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## minerva71

@stilltryingandhoping, I'm sorry you faced such an attitude...I know that tastes differ and everybody has a right to express his or her own opinion, but you know it's disappointing a bit to hear about clinic's problems when you're waiting for your treatment there. hope there won't be problems with IVF. 

@Hope4Spring, hi! It's so so wonderful you have twins! You say that clinic is competent and serious and they don't exploit SMs like in other agencis...what do you mean, how could you know that agencies exploit surros there??


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## lotus123

*Bella*, no, not VIP... I was comparing Biotex Econom package with Feskov Garanted and with only 2 attemps agreemens. Their agreemens seems to me very diffecult...
May be something has changed ...


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## lotus123

*Bella*, It seems that they really have changed their offers and prices. In last year the price of the lowest garanted agreement was more than 30k Eur.
And I've told them that I had more cheapest offer from another clinic, so they have offered me another (not garanted with no donnor eggs, no accommodations etc) for 22350 Eur...
So may be after my feed back (about the price, no a lot of positive reviews in Internet and far from Kiev) they decided to change their offers


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## BlueCloud

LOL, I love how Biotex fake posts keep coming up on all major forums!!! People of Biotex please stop this as you are ruining your own reputation. 

I have chased our agency again as we were sent two SM profiles last week but one of them was married and other one has 2 unsuccessful cycles. We were promised to get 3 profiles in January and I am getting so impatient now. Any more delays mean our daughter will miss her school. She is due to start reception in Sept this year. 

Can anyone recommend lawyers in UK? We have been dealing with Natalie Gambles but their cost for filing parents order are unaffordable for us. They quoted £25k to represent the case and £5k for checking the PO application that we prepare.


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Minerva71

i know it can be a bit disappointing to read something negative about a clinic is you are using them and waiting. If its an consolation to you, if you are only having IVF there, i think they would be a great clinic. There wouldn't be many issues if we were only having IVF i think. Surrogacy raises more challenges and its a longer process, so their are more factors to consider.

You said some things in your earlier posts and i wanted to reply to them. About the surrogate mothers not being genetically linked to the baby and why people are so fierce about wanting to know about them. You've expressed the point of view of your friend who was a surrogate.I understand what you mean about some people being overbearing towards the surrogate, not everyone is like this. But can you imagine that someone is carrying your child, and you don't even know who it is. Not everyone can cope with this so well. Its natural to want to know who she is and if she is in a good situation, to want to protect her and your own baby too.People want to make sure that she is paid well, looked after and receiving the care she needs, and more importantly, not being forced to do the surrogacy by a husband or someone else who wants her to do it for the money. Believe it or not, there are many women who are pressured into being surrogates by people.

On your comment about people being concerned with the clinic workers, I actually met a girl who had just started at the clinic in December. I asked her if she was enjoying it and if the clinic will pay her and the other managers well for their work etc. Not all of us only care about the surrogate and not the workers there. As much as i have shared my good and bad experiences, ive also taken christmas gifts for my manager and doctor and spoken to the managers to ask how their work is going. However, Our responsibility as paying clients should still be, first and foremost towards the surrogates. If surrogates are exploited, that is when surrogacy is banned in a country. Its happened already in many countries. This gets us no where as we then have less opportunities.

S x


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## BlueCloud

juicy23 said:


> Hello ladies!
> I finally got some time to post here as I wanted. I expected to share my positive experience but now I see, that some things should be clarified. I didn't manage to read all pages all the more so I read at least 10 before. Well, I have a few questions to a person who seems to me rather suspicious.
> 
> @BlueCloud
> I just wanted to figure out which clinic did you choose for surrogacy? I looked through your posts and don't have a clue what's wrong with all those places you've mentioned. At first you posted that you are going to make a research on Ukrainian clinics biotexcom, new life and intersono..in a 6 months you're cycling with IAAM and Nadiya clinic and told that while waiting for your SM to be matched by Jan 17 and your 'embryos are already created and waiting to be transferred'
> BUT
> in 2 daysin another your post it goes "IAAM is still finding a surrogate for us so we thought to create and freeze the embryo so save a bit of time"...well, it's pretty odd, one day you have embies and then you just want to create them to freeze and you only hope to sign a contract in Jan.
> 
> Then you thought about USA like an option, told that Ukrainian clinic ISIDA "no longer accept a surrogate from her agency"...whose agency? And you had a consultation in London? But just in 2 days you have 3 embryos to transfer and asking who is also with Nadiya.
> 
> Then you are telling that you were put off by Biotexcom because its representatives didn't give you any information about how much they pay their SMs and don't allow you to meet her before 12th week; at the same time IAAM with Nadya are so good for you even though they promised you to find a SM a month earlier. A month of delay it's OK?
> 
> And the last post "I think IAAM does have some packages but we couldn't go with that as we need PGD for genetic reasons"...so I can't understand, what's going on with your treatment? What's with your SM?


I have been searching for the clinics since 2015. We nearly started with ISIDA but their agency Happy Moms run by Larisa was banned by ISIDA and we lost few months. 
I liked intersono but didn't want any clinic outside Kiev. I explained enough about Biotex. We needed a part of PGD (as I have Charcott Marie tooth Disease and would like gender selection) which was not performed in Georgia otherwise New life was also my choice. New life in Ukraine was a bit expensive for us. We have done down the donor eggs in the end. My ethnicity is Asian and hence lack perfect writing skills in English. I chose the agency I am with because:

- They offered gender selection
- Were recommended by Natalie Gambles. Natalie's team is amasingly experienced and professional. I wish I could afford them for further support 
- Their contracts sounded solid. (They have sent all the contacts to us. I can share copies if anyone interested)
- They let us meet the surrogate 
- Transparency in payments
- They have a company in UK where you make most the payments to. I felt safer that way. 
- Nadiya clinic has a good reputation.

I think I have explained enough. I don't work for the agency we are currently with.

All genuine contributors to this forum, please don't ignore me as I really need your support. I request the moderator to check IPs, You will find my IP is from UK.


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## Proud-Dad-of-Twins

@minerva71: Stilltryingandhoping explained very well what I meant about the potential exploitation of surrogate mothers at some agencies, clinics and countries. This is a very general concern among many IPs. Kindly note that in my posts I did not point fingers at specific names since I did not have bad personal experience, luckily. I was a bit surprised that some people here got defensive and felt that they need to protect the reputation of their particular agency/clinic/country.  

Before we started our surrogacy journey in Ukraine, we looked into some other countries, we were very concerned about media reports in which the surrogate mothers were exploited and we were scared by some surrogacy scandals. 

We decided to go with Ukraine because we liked the surrogacy laws and the stability of the surrogacy procedures in the country. We signed contracts with our agency and clinic since we knew their surrogate mothers would not be exploited - we had the possibility to meet our surrogate mother and contact her throughout the whole journey, we made payments to her bank account directly each month, we were given regular updates and checkup results about her wellbeing and the progress of our twins during the pregnancy. 

The fact that our twins were born very healthy and the delivery was smooth without complications indicated that our surrogate mother took good care of herself and our twins. After our twins were born she told us she was very happy to be able to help us to become parents and she felt very relieved that things turned out very well.


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## michellemichelle

oh I shouldn't have left this forum for that muck time haha there's been a lot I see
How is your progress @Stilltryingandhoping? Did your coordinator reply to you or not? 
And there's been some investigation here as I understand lol I hope everyone's ok!

PS I am in Kiev right now. Well, the country did surprise me a bit. everything is so different here. well, those who've been to Ukraine will understand how I feel right now. anyways, i have asked my coordinator about the surro moms prices and she told me that the clinic actually covers all of the expenses of the surrogate mothers and they really do pay for a lot of stuff for them...  but she didn't tell me about their "salary" saying it is confidential.


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## michellemichelle

@hope4spring it is nice to read when you are sitting in the hallway waiting for the taxi to take you to the clinic for the initial consultation and possible further contract signing. I see that you are perfectly satisfied with biotex, is that so?
@everyone Hm... most of the clinics try to promote themselves here but it is rare to be seen these days, isn't it? I haven't noticed anything that suspicious actually...


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Michellemichelle

i think i wrote this in a previous post, my manager ignored my message when i sent her a message after christmes holidays for the clinic. So a week later when i heard from a friend i made at the clinic that they will try again within a month of getting their negative(they got their negative 2 1/2 weeks after we got ours), i messaged my manager again. She told me to just wait.

I messaged the head of the English department and am in the process of trying to get somewhere with her. She has offered me one of my managers assistants to be my manager(I met this other girl in December on her first day at the clinic so she doesn't know too much about the clinic as she is very new). Its pointless, and doesn't change anything but what else can she really suggest? i have been told that they will try to give me an update today, so i am waiting.

Yes, the clinic did the same thing with me and we have been skirting around what the surrogate gets paid. At first i wasn't bothered, now its just weird and annoying. But its each persons decision if this is important to them and they want to pursue it.I dont see why it should be confidential though since its our money that pays the surrogate. For most people, its just a way to figure out if they are happy with the clinic paying them fairly. For British people, its important for parental orders from the British courts. If the courts want to see paperwork withthis amount written, we will have big problems. As Bluecloud already said, people have to pay thousands to get legal advice on Parental orders, and some lawyers charge £25k for legal representation if it gets complicated and messy in court later.

Which country are you from? Will this affect you?


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## michellemichelle

Stilltryingandhoping said:


> Hi Michellemichelle
> 
> i think i wrote this in a previous post, my manager ignored my message when i sent her a message after christmes holidays for the clinic. So a week later when i heard from a friend i made at the clinic that they will try again within a month of getting their negative(they got their negative 2 1/2 weeks after we got ours), i messaged my manager again. She told me to just wait.
> 
> I messaged the head of the English department and am in the process of trying to get somewhere with her. She has offered me one of my managers assistants to be my manager(I met this other girl in December on her first day at the clinic so she doesn't know too much about the clinic as she is very new). Its pointless, and doesn't change anything but what else can she really suggest? i have been told that they will try to give me an update today, so i am waiting.
> 
> Yes, the clinic did the same thing with me and we have been skirting around what the surrogate gets paid. At first i wasn't bothered, now its just weird and annoying. But its each persons decision if this is important to them and they want to pursue it.I dont see why it should be confidential though since its our money that pays the surrogate. For most people, its just a way to figure out if they are happy with the clinic paying them fairly. For British people, its important for parental orders from the British courts. If the courts want to see paperwork withthis amount written, we will have big problems. As Bluecloud already said, people have to pay thousands to get legal advice on Parental orders, and some lawyers charge £25k for legal representation if it gets complicated and messy in court later.
> 
> Which country are you from? Will this affect you?


oh i just thought that something could've changed over the weekend so I asked you but anyways I hope you will get an update today as you were promised
hm but isn't it obvious that those surrogate mothers are perfectly fine with the sum they are getting paid with? I mean if they actually go for it.. I was just thinking about it the other day as Ukraine is the whole another country, it is a lot more different from most of the european countries and US too. and for them like 1000 euro can be a lot, don't you think? just my thoughts.
but did you express your worries to the coordinator or Anastasia? what did they say?
I am from USA.


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## Proud-Dad-of-Twins

michellemichelle said:


> @hope4spring it is nice to read when you are sitting in the hallway waiting for the taxi to take you to the clinic for the initial consultation and possible further contract signing. I see that you are perfectly satisfied with biotex, is that so?
> @everyone Hm... most of the clinics try to promote themselves here but it is rare to be seen these days, isn't it? I haven't noticed anything that suspicious actually...


@Michellemichelle: You mixed me up with someone else here. We used La Vita Nova and Intersono, and we are happy with them. In the future if we want to have more children, we'll definitely use them again.

In fact I have not seen "most of the clinics" trying to promote themselves here as you wrote, I've only noticed a few particular agencies/clinics on this forum and other online forums after reading so many positive posts about them. Honestly, most of the agencies/clinics do not promote themselves here by claiming to be clients and misleading the genuine IPs, otherwise you would read multiple posters praising/recommending them. I guess most agencies/clinics are busy with their business activities and don't have the resources or feel comfortable with the ethics to fake posts.


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Michelmichelle

I thought this too, if you go through the post from a few months ago, you'll see i was saying the same type of things that you are.In fact, i was recommending this clinic to many people, and probably referred 6 couples that i know, to the clinic and some of them went in for their first consultation already. And yes,the Ukrainian economy is definitely different, and the average salary is much lower. I was all for believing most things that were said to me. Its from my personal experience with that clinic that i have thought to question things.Its for each individual to question what they want and figure out what they need from a clinic, to decide which one they feel comfortable with. Every person has different things that are important for their situation.

 Please add any links or comments from newspaper articles into the Infertility in the news section, you can then post a link to that thread here if you wish. Thank you FF moderation team


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## Dory10

A polite reminder...

FF is a community to support those experiencing infertility for many different reasons. It is an extremely emotive subject and so from time to time threads in all areas can get heated. All posts are read by a team of volunteers and members checked out by management. If you have concerns over any posts or members conduct please press the report to moderator button. It is not helpful to start 'witch hunts' questioning members authenticity, any warnings or removal of membership are done privately and not out in the public forums.

Thank you


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## Denmommy

Stilltryingandhoping, your words make sense! we all are different and make different choices grounded on very different things. and that's quite natural. I hope everything will work out for you and for other couples you mentioned. 

We still have no news from the clinic, but it's already the 7th week and I hope the baby is developing well. The feelings are so different and in the meantime so common to natural pregnancy. as well as with my first son, with each new week I keep reading and watching video of how the fetus develops and of his achievements on this week. as to the differences - I think it's obvious for everyone in this thread - just feeling helpless and restless all the time


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## BlueCloud

Denmommy that's so exciting!! I hope time will pass quickly and you be able to see scan reports soon.


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## minerva71

@Stilltryingandhoping you're right, I have now more doubts although everything is alright...at least now. The thing is that I took a SM like a donor, that's why, I think, her role seemed a little obscure to me. I read about the reasons of surrogacy banning and now I get why you're concerned of the ways SM's are treated. Anyways I like to think that they're satisfied with everything if they are in a program. But I'm curious..what if a SM breaks some rules (awful food, smoking, alcohol) and it could lead to problems with a baby, what's then? In my case if I don't follow all the dr's prescriptions during ivf treatment, I could be fined.


----------



## minerva71

@Hope4Spring
Yes, now I know it's a common problem in different countries. I also would like to know that a woman carrying my child takes care of herself and is treated properly of her free will. 
Concerning defensive position, well it's more like an attempt to assure myself that I made a right choice. I know it's wrong to think that what is good for someone is as good for you, but it's easy to say. 
It's amazing what SMs do but when I think that they need to give a child who became a part of her life..it must be tough. However, it's great that you have now two little wonders!


----------



## michellemichelle

Hope4Spring said:


> michellemichelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> @hope4spring it is nice to read when you are sitting in the hallway waiting for the taxi to take you to the clinic for the initial consultation and possible further contract signing. I see that you are perfectly satisfied with biotex, is that so?
> @everyone Hm... most of the clinics try to promote themselves here but it is rare to be seen these days, isn't it? I haven't noticed anything that suspicious actually...
> 
> 
> 
> @Michellemichelle: You mixed me up with someone else here. We used La Vita Nova and Intersono, and we are happy with them. In the future if we want to have more children, we'll definitely use them again.
> 
> In fact I have not seen "most of the clinics" trying to promote themselves here as you wrote, I've only noticed a few particular agencies/clinics on this forum and other online forums after reading so many positive posts about them. Honestly, most of the agencies/clinics do not promote themselves here by claiming to be clients and misleading the genuine IPs, otherwise you would read multiple posters praising/recommending them. I guess most agencies/clinics are busy with their business activities and don't have the resources or feel comfortable with the ethics to fake posts.
Click to expand...

I am truly sorry, I must've confused you with someone or as I think I have read your commentary with thoughts about biotex (as it is the clinic of my choice) and that's why I thought that you were talking about it because I truly wish more people talk about it in a good way.Sorry. 
hm I see...i do not like that either but honestly if some clinics do that I would suppose all of the others to do so too. sadly... and what about that huge posts about all of the ukrainian clinics, like with lists of their offers and services?


----------



## michellemichelle

Stilltryingandhoping said:


> Michelmichelle
> 
> I thought this too, if you go through the post from a few months ago, you'll see i was saying the same type of things that you are.In fact, i was recommending this clinic to many people, and probably referred 6 couples that i know, to the clinic and some of them went in for their first consultation already. And yes,the Ukrainian economy is definitely different, and the average salary is much lower. I was all for believing most things that were said to me. Its from my personal experience with that clinic that i have thought to question things.Its for each individual to question what they want and figure out what they need from a clinic, to decide which one they feel comfortable with. Every person has different things that are important for their situation.
> 
> Please add any links or comments from newspaper articles into the Infertility in the news section, you can then post a link to that thread here if you wish. Thank you FF moderation team



Yes, you are right. I have been thinking about it a lot yesterday before we went to the clinic. Now we are biotex clients and our journey begins. we are coming back home tomorrow though, so for today we are staying in Kiev. I signed with them just because i was planning to do it for a long time and I just couldn't cancel all of my plans. So i really hope that biotex won't fail to deliver and we will be happy parents in the future.


----------



## Denmommy

minerva, you told about SM's possible "bad" behaviour during pregnancy like smoking or eating junk food, well, I asked about it in the clinic. They told that they monitor surros every month and can check their life style. In any case, it seems to me that surrogate is also interested in delivering of a healthy baby because her health is also at stake. She wants to have a healthy and less painful delivery with short recovering time. Am I right? Every woman wants it, SM is not an exception. Thus she is not interested in eating greasy food day and night and then delivering an overweight baby. I hope those women have some sense and wisdom. 

The other question that really concerns me is when they allow seeing a baby after delivery. Truly speaking, we haven't asked our manager about this. I thought it’s obvious that we may see the baby soon after delivery. There was a post here recently that they allowed seeing the baby only on the 4th day. Why? Can anyone explain if it’s really true or disclaim if it’s not


----------



## lotus123

Michelmichelle, congratulations on signing of contract!!!
What kind of package have you chosen? (Econom, standart or VIP) 
How long you need to wait for the next step  - injections? Have you long protocol?


----------



## lotus123

Denmommy said:


> The other question that really concerns me is when they allow seeing a baby after delivery. Truly speaking, we haven't asked our manager about this. I thought it's obvious that we may see the baby soon after delivery. There was a post here recently that they allowed seeing the baby only on the 4th day. Why? Can anyone explain if it's really true or disclaim if it's not


My manager told us that if everything is ok - IP allowed to see their babies after some hours after delivery.


----------



## hopeandpray

Hi 
I try and keep up to date with this thread but there's quite a lot going for you. 
Congrats to DenMommey - 7 weeks down 33 to go. 
I have read this whole thread and it's really made me have second thoughts about BioTexCom and now I'm sure I'd ever relax so we have swapped to LaVitaNova. There are some downsides, main office is in Kharkov and there are no direct flights. Quickest time seems to be flight to Kiev and then 5 hour train to Kharkov. Has anybody used this clinic and has lived in the area. And if so is there anybody that would be happy for to PM so I can ask some questions. 

Thank you 
Xx


----------



## hopeandpray

Also if anybody is reading the thread taking it all in and would like to know all the packages and prices I have been offered let me know and I'll post them on here or in PM. I know when we started researching it would have helped xx


----------



## Bdust

@HopeandPray, there are twice daily flights between Kiev and Kharkiv (Kharkov) by the local airline (Ukraine international Airline). Its an hour long and cost about $50 one way.


----------



## Proud-Dad-of-Twins

@HopeandPray, @Bdust

Having travelled extensively around various parts of the world, visited Ukraine multiple times and multiple cities, and spent 8 weeks in the country after the birth of our twins to finalize citizenship and passport applications so that we could fly back home, I'd say Kharkov (the 2nd largest city in Ukraine) is a nicer, cheaper, more livable, more convenient, more relaxing and friendly city than Kiev, much better for families with small babies and for pregnant women. It also has many universities and a pleasant atmosphere when you see many young students in the streets.

Also Lviv (where our IVF took place with Intersono) is a nicer and more enjoyable city than Kiev and is on the UNESCO World Heritage list. It is one hour flight from Vienna with Austrian Airlines. South of Lviv and by train or car, there is a resort town Truskavets known for its mineral springs, which I recommend for a relaxing weekend before the IVF procedure.

I only see two advantages of Kiev: 1) embassies and consulates are located there, 2) many western airlines fly into and out of Kiev Borispil Airport. We didn't take the domestic flights between Kharkov and Kiev, instead we took the intercity trains which were very comfortable and cheap even in 1st class so that we could take it easy and enjoy the landscape. The train stations in both cities are closer to the respective city centers.

I booked our train tickets online on this website: https://www.uz.gov.ua/en/passengers/. /links

Originally I booked flights to Kharkov with Austrian Airlines via Vienna, but they later cancelled that route, so I booked flights with Lufthansa and Swiss to and out of Kiev and then trains between Kiev and kharkov.

If you want to fly to Kharkov, in addition to Ukrainian International Airlines, you can fly with LOT Polish Airlines via Warsaw and Turkish Airlines via Istanbul (begins 30th March 2017).


----------



## Proud-Dad-of-Twins

@minerva71 

I think the SM plays the most crucial role in the whole surrogacy process since she is the one who carries the baby for 9 or 10 months and it's not an easy job. It's very important that the SM feels that she's paid well, looked after and gets all the support and help she needs. 

@michellemichelle

Regarding "the posts about all of the ukrainian clinics, like with lists of their offers and services?", I've not followed this whole thread closely, but I read somewhere that they were posted by the IPs who have contacted many clinics and wanted to share the findings.


----------



## Bdust

Thanks for the sharing @Hope4Spring. I will certainly take a look at the train option for Kharkov.

 Please just type the member's name you are responding to rather than copying and pasting long quotes, it makes the thread harder to follow & so in future such comments will be removed


----------



## lotus123

Hello to everyone!

Today is the 13th day after my first injection and I still waiting green light from the clinic. If I right understood they still are searching/maching SM for us.
3 days straight I have headache ... 2 days ago this headache was unbearable during all day - as migraine...

That's all. No any news from me


----------



## minerva71

@Hope4Spring
I'm sure she does, so you can only hope a SM is fine and doesn't forget to take care of herself. However, I'm almost sure if they ain't satisfied with conditions provided by a clinic or agency, don't know who is responsible for their safety and comfort, then they just won't try to become SMs. At least it makes sense. 

@lotus123
Oh, how do you feel now? Do you take any headache pills?
This waiting is so annoying, I understand you. My second visit to a clinic was meant to be on Mon23 but now it's the next Mon...can't say i'm happy about that, but I can do nothing just wait again.
I hope your SM will be matched soon.


----------



## Denmommy

Lotus, I don’t think that having so bad headache is kind of ok  . Maybe you’d better contact them. Do pain killers help? I also used to have kind of headaches, but not that strong and that was the same day after injection, and a bit on the following. Not migraine type
I hope you’d get better soon


----------



## lotus123

Denmommy, minerva71,
So strong pain was only on morning. I've taken pills 4 times and a half of day was in a bad  
Yesterday and today much more better, thank you!
May be it even isn't due to my injection...I don't know, but I've asked my manager if i can take pills... 

minerva71, what will be on next Monday? Want kind of information are you waiting?


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi everyone

Lots of activity in this post which is always great!  I have been chasing up the clinic and it has gotten a little heated and stressful a few times. But now we have been told that they have found us a surrogate. The date for transfer hasn't been given to us at all yet(we don't know if it will be a week from now or 2 months from now) but they said they will give us a better idea of this in a few days. 

@bluecloud 
I know what you mean about lawyers in the Uk being so expensive for parental order. I remember someone earlier sharing the contact of another lawyer for this(I'm sorry I don't know if it was Reptile Smile who shared or someone else) but perhaps someone else remembers. We may be using another solicitor who is Indian and has her own company based in India. But she is largely a solicitor who deals with immigration,and has also dealt with the PO applications for Uk parents. I have only just got in touch with her so I haven't got much to say, except she was recommended to us. So I can keep you up to date with how things progress with her. She's at Biotexcom today so she will speak about our case with the managers and see if she can get a better communication going for us as I am too stressed to deal with them anymore. 

Obviously, we have for a while before we use anyone for a parental order yet, but if I use her and am happy with her, I'll happily share the information.

S xx


----------



## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping, congratulations of receiving news of your new SM!!!!
Am I right understood that this woman will be not the same as previous, yes?
But what about new agreement with new SM - how you will sign? Via mail?


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Lotus123 

The headaches! I remember those, it's hormonal migraines and they can be quite bad. I hope you feel better soon.
The surrogate will be different. We are stil at the stage of discussing some things with the clinic, and that's why we now have a solicitor who is there that will communicate with the clinic on our behalf. We have had to resort to this because it was firstly too stressful, and also because I didn't feel I was getting anywhere with it. So we shall see what she says when she gets back to me later. She will also advise about the agreement with the surrogate. We did sign a few copies of these so they may already have some, and our solicitor can arrange all of this to be given to us. Or we may fly out to sign, but I really hope we don't have to do that. 

S x


----------



## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping,
Even a solicitor?! Wau! Great idea! Where have you found him/her? In our country nobody who can help with such question...i think...
Hoping that you will receive all answers on your all questions and you haven't to fly now to Kiev! Good luck to you and your solicitor!!!!
Have you done some link for your diary? I'm checking it every day for any updates


----------



## minerva71

lotus123, 
It must have been an appointment before ET but something went wrong or....I don't know what happend actually. I didn't get an information about egg donor's EC last week and wrote them but got a reply with a new date. As far as I understand my donor is about to have ER tomorrow now. So I'm praying for everything will be fine, many eggs..great eggs


----------



## lotus123

minerva71, so am I right understood that you won't use surrogacy and try to become pregnant your self with DE?
So now you are in Kiev?


----------



## minerva71

lotus123, yes, you're right. This thread isn't meant for me because I'm going to have my very first IVF round, not surrogacy...but who knows what's meant to be. 
I'm at home now, fortunately I've managed to cancel my flight before it's too late. I'm going to be in Kiev this Sunday


----------



## lotus123

minerva71, Good luck to you on your very first IVF round...and hoping the last and effective!!!!
I also have never used IVF and so on... But life has forced to use even surrogacy in our case


----------



## minerva71

Thank you, lotus123!!! I like to think it will be successful. It's weird but I'm not nervous about this procedure, although I've read the detailes but still not scared, more excited and happy. Maybe something is wrong with me...many women, who shared their experience of endless tries have lots of emotions and feel stressed all the time and me..I have no experience to compare with and I don't worry 

You must have serious reasons for never trying IVF...I'm really sorry for what happened to you. Nevertheless, you seem to be stong woman if you managed to keep moving on. I hope you'll get what you want!


----------



## lotus123

Good morning!

I have received new information from my manager - to start stimulation from Monday and on Friday - scan already in Kiev, EC aprox. on 13th February.
So I've already have bought ticket one way to Kiev!
It's so exciting! Only one thing puts me on guard - I don't need to do scan before start of stimulation... But I hope that doctor knows what to do...
So my journey continuous...


----------



## michellemichelle

@stilltryingandhoping congratulations!!! that's an amazing update actually! I am truly happy for you. I am still as you know at the beginning of my surrogacy program but reading your posts and the thread itself is the mood maker for me. even though there's been a lot of controversies recently but I hope that everyone is doing fine and whatever you were to choose you have made a right choice! as for me for now everything is going the way I wanted so I have nothing to say.


----------



## michellemichelle

Hello again
I was looking on the internet up all of the clinics that were mentioned in all of the previous posts and I’ve found this website where the clinic or the agency (I am not really sure) La Vita Nova says that they offer traditional surrogacy programs… am I the only one who thinks that this is really unsafe. Especially for foreigners.  What if surros will refuse to give a child to you? at least with gestations surrogacy you can be sure that she has no rights to claim the baby hers and the child will 100 percent be yours. And I have read that their surros can be married…. It can create a lot of problems further into the program, cannot it? 
Just thinking…


----------



## Bella2016

Michelle- I don't think that is a viable website. You have to be very careful about what sort of websites you are looking at, as a lot of them provide false information. I am in contact with LVN and they do not offer traditional surrogacy. In fact, traditional surrogacy is forbidden in Ukraine. You may look at LVN's website:http://www.lavitanova.net/index.php/en/2016-04-19-11-00-11/surrogacy-in-ukraine

I hope ti is ok to paste the above link here.


----------



## Denmommy

Lotus, finally you got news from them! Great! So, travelling to Kiev soon. are you travelling alone? I’m sure you are excited. As to the ultrasound, they haven’t told you to do it? 

I hope you feel better now and no headaches, do you?

Fingers crossed on your stimulation!


----------



## lotus123

Denmommy, yes, I've got news! Finally! 
Yes, I'm going along for 2 weeks. And yes, they haven't told me any instructions about ultrascan before starting stimulation. So the last scan was when I'd done injection of Diphereline.
I don't know if it is ok or not..I only know that you and stilltryingandhoping did it... 

Thank you!!!


----------



## Denmommy

Lotus, maybe you should have asked your manager about it. I think that doing an ultrasound before proceeding with hormones would be a great plus.
In any case, probably you can ask your local gynecologist if you can do it without prescription? Just to make sure everything's fine? 
Ok, that's just a suggestion and of course your doctor knows better.
I'm sure everything will be fine


----------



## Bdust

@Lotus, great that things are moving along. Wish you all the best.


----------



## Proud-Dad-of-Twins

@michellemichelle

The website that you referred to does not belong to the La Vita Nova (Surrogate Motherhood Center) in Ukraine which is based in Kharkov. The website actually refers to the IVF clinic VitaNova in Russia which is based in Moscow, it is not related to La Vita Nova in Ukraine. Also the telephone number listed on the website belongs to the law firm Rosjurconsulting based in Moscow, which acts as an agency for surrogacy programs in Russia. 

As far as I know, La Vita Nova (Kharkov, Ukraine) does not work with traditional surrogacy. It was the case 3 years ago when I first contacted them and it is still the case as Bella2016 pointed out, she contacted them recently. 

It seems that Vita Nova is a very popular name, it means New Life in Latin. There is an IVF clinic named Vita Nova in Denmark as well. Also New Life is a well known agency operating in Georgia and some other countries.


----------



## hopeandpray

Hope4Spring - Thanks for the info and reassurance about La Vita Nova and Kharkov. It's answered a few a questions. 

So far so good for me. We go to the clinic late March to sign contracts, we are there 2 days and we have been offered the opportunity to meet our SM on the second day if we wish. I'm not sure about that yet. 

C


----------



## Proud-Dad-of-Twins

@hopeandpray

Hope you will have a nice trip to Kharkov. You don't have to meet the SM if you don't want to or if you feel that you're not ready for the meeting yet. You will have the possibility to meet your SM later after the pregnancy is confirmed or after the pregnancy is progressing well. If you can't travel to Ukraine to meet her during her pregnancy, you can use modern communication technology such as Skype, ******** or emails to keep in contact with her, either directly with her or via the surrogacy manager (your contact person at the agency) or through a friend of yours who speaks Russian or Ukrainian due to the language barrier - most IPs don't speak any Russian or Ukrainian and most SMs don't speak any English. 

Russian language is widely used in Ukraine, especially in the eastern and southern part of the country. In Kharkov most people speak Russian (the city is only 40 km from the Russian boarder). Kharkov is the Russian spelling, while Kharkiv is the Ukrainian spelling.


----------



## Denmommy

hopeandpray, you still have time to figure it out. from one hand, that's great that they provide you u with opportunity to meet surro mom at once, from the other hand - it may be extra stress for you and for her as well. I agree with hope4spring that you'd better wait until pregnancy is confirmed both with beta test and with ultrasound scanning. This is a good reason to get acquainted  IMO
in our clinic, the soonest you can meet your surro is 12 week of pregnancy. It seems too long to wait (and it really is), however it still makes some sense. not only IPs feelings should be taken into consideration, but surro's as well. she'd feel more comfortable to meet you when she knows for sure everything's fine. i'm sure you understand.
In any case, if you were given such an opportunity, you're the one to  decide


----------



## lotus123

*Stilltryingandhoping*, how are you? Any news from your solicitor and the second attempt?
Waiting your diary update as well


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Everyone

So, I should be speaking to my solicitor today to catch up on everything that she has found out for me and also to go through some things that will help us decide if we will proceed. Having her deal with the clinic will definitely help me deal with stress and make the process easier for me. She said she will also deal with our parental order application when we come back to the UK,so I can relax about that. 

I will update when I know more. I'm not updating the diary anymore, which I previously mentioned,because I am in the process of writing a book now. But I will keep giving updates on here for anyone who wants to follow what is happening with us. 

Thanks
S xx


----------



## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping,

It's very good that you've find such person who you can rely on!!!
And thank you for update you journey   For me it's very useful!!!
So good luck!!


----------



## Reptile Smile

Stilltryingandhoping said:


> I remember someone earlier sharing the contact of another lawyer for this(I'm sorry I don't know if it was Reptile Smile who shared or someone else) but perhaps someone else remembers.


It was probably me! We are using Harjit Sarang at www.surrogacylawyers.co.uk and can't recommend her enough!

Just a small observation from reading this what this thread has grown into - different countries and legislations have different requirements for the legal process that follows surrogacy. In the UK, there are specific requirements about the payments that the SM receives. That may not be the case in the US (or indeed other countries) and therefore other forum users may be puzzled as to why UK IPs are particularly focused on payments to the SM. However, for us, a lack of clarity around payments to the SM can jeopardise the court case that follows surrogacy that transfers parental rights for the child to the IPs.


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Reptile smile

Thanks,Yes it was your recommendation of this lawyer that I was thinking of. Have you started the parental order application process? I would love to hear about your experience when you have. 

S x


----------



## michellemichelle

girls, is there anyone who will be watching the biotex's webinar today? I saw them advertising it on their ******** page...

sorry for this abrupt reply.
haha
hope everyone is doing fine.
I haven't yet come back to normal as I can't sleep all night and it is really stupid but as I do not have a lot of stuff to be done, a lot of responsibilities I must say all the time I am awake I spend doing basically nothing. or maybe reading some forum threads. so i guess now I am going to have some educational time.


----------



## Reptile Smile

We've started in the sense that our lawyer asked us to fill in the court forms and start the ball rolling with applying for the hearing - that's as far as we've got.  Will let you know what happens!


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

ReptileSmile

That's great. I'm going to contact your solicitor to get some quotes. Will she be representing you in court too or will you appear yourself and just get her to help you with paperwork? I'm using An Indian solicitor for the immigration part to get our baby home faster, but not sure if we want to use her for the parental order. She said she can help us apply,but if things get complicated(because our clinic are being very weird about giving us details of what they pay surrogates) and we need representation in court, we may need to turn to someone else anyway. 

S x


----------



## Reptile Smile

As far as I know, she's representing us in court, but it's largely a routine process, we understand.

Out of interest, what will your solicitor do to help the immigration part?  For us, it was just about going through the list from the Foreign Office for the overseas birth passport application, and then just adding the things the embassy (outreach folks, at least) asked for.  I wasn't sure what the immigration solicitor would be able to do to add to this?  But of course might have misunderstood, and the length of the process is only limited by the length of the passport application (that is - can the immigration solicitor speed this up..?)


----------



## BlueCloud

Hello all,

Sorry i haven't been able to post lately. I have read just last few posts. 

Our agency have found a suitable surrogate few days ago. We are going to Kiev tomorrow to meet her and sign the contracts on Monday. If things all go smooth, surrogate will start the cycle for frozen embryo transfer pretty much straight away. Fingers crossed! 

Reptilesmile and stilltryingandhoping, thank for sharing your experience on legal side. Reptilesmile, do you mind sharing how much your solicitor is charging you? 

Sorry for a self centred post! I will come back to all.


----------



## lotus123

Hello to everyone!

I had scan on Friday in Kiev. Till now it seems everything is ok with my stimulation. The next visit will be on Wendsday - so the doctor then will decide when to do EC.
So I'll be in Kiev min a week, may be more....
Everything till now is ok with my communication with my manager (after signing our contract).

When I was transferred from airport I've see different hotels and apartments for clients. This time I'm also in hotel Lime. There a lot of Chinese pairs there!
From driver I've known that the most popular clients now are from China and Italy. Almost all Chinese sign VIP contracts.

Fingers crossed....


----------



## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping, do you have any news from clinic and your solicitor?


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi ReptileSmile

I contacted Harjit and got some quotes which are quite reasonable compared to some solicitors. I was told that the process in court is straight forward and parents usually just represent themselves. In terms of what my solicitor can do to move things along with immigration, tbh I don't know but I have spoken to other couples who she has represented and apparently she always gets things pushed through a bit faster. I honestly don't know is this is even possible with the British embassy. I'm very organised as an individual, so for immigration, I don't know if I will find much benefit using her. But the main reason I've resorted to it is because she is good at getting things moving with the clinic,and getting the information I need from them. 

Lotus123 
I haven't heard anything else from the clinic but I'm not expecting to. I was supposed to have a call with my solicitor on Sunday,but I have had the flu all weekend and had to postpone. From what I have found out so far, we are going to go ahead and carry on with the surrogacy. I told my solicitor my concerns and she has been in Kiev last week. She checked the surrogate conditions and the clinic had agreed to provide payment information for the surrogates. I am planning on assessing how much the surrogat has got paid at the end and making an extra payment to the lady myself, as a gift and a thank you. I am also going to have my solicitor check her living conditions(in person) and make sure we are happy with them. I know not everyone does this,but this is important to me, so I will do it. As far as I am aware,the surrogates do not get paid so much so any extra small payment should not make a difference. I will do it  at the stage when I have applied for parental order and get permission to make such a payment from the courts. 

S xx


----------



## michellemichelle

Lotus, I have seen just one Chinese couple when I was there, others were from English speaking countries.
PS your driver knows English wow
My driver (I am talking about biotex's one) did not even say a word to us apart from greetings and small instructions. but his English was not that good obviously.


----------



## michellemichelle

Stilltryingandhoping, " the clinic had agreed to provide payment information for the surrogates." great! will you share it with us?


----------



## lotus123

michellemichelle, now you are in Kiev??
In what hotel?
Till now I've seen only one the driver (during this visit) - I'm living near the clinic so I was walking myself there.
Moreover - for me it;s not problem because my native language is Russian  
So my English isn't good...
In my hotel now 3 pair from China, one from Spain, one from Tunis, and one more has arrived only today....
In the clinic I've seen a lot of Italians

Stilltryingandhoping, Get well soon!!!!
You still haven't met your solicitor? I see... But you are lucky that finally some of your questions have found their answers!!!


----------



## lotus123

michellemichelle, yes, I'm in Lime hotel now.
I'm from small country - Lithuania.
What kind of agreement have you signed?
On what kind of questions you still haven't received answers from the clinic/manager?
Is it known when you will start your injections?


----------



## juicy23

Hello all! 
I'm still trying to find a clinic dealing with surrogacy. I thought I had already been close to start my journey but things have changed. I contacted one Ukrainian clinic with high success rate and positive feedback from real clients, I hope they are, but still have no answer. According to information on the website, the cost of a surrogacy package is 15k euro. I'm sure it's impossible, but I don't know any details. A manager told me she would forward my questions to another manager from the agency they work with, but it's almost a week of silence. Here must be someone who has been with Isida. What is to be expected? As far as I know, it's one of the best clinics in Ukraine.


----------



## Mummytwins

Hi all

Just thought I should share this information about a conference that I found while browsing for surrogacy information. It is a conference to be held in London on 11th March. I understand that Anastasia from Biotexcom will be coming and she will be in the panel during one of the sessions.

You can find more information or register on these links:

http://www.familiesthrusurrogacy.com/london-surrogacy-conference/

http://www.familiesthrusurrogacy.com/event/ukeu-conference/

Good luck to all of us.


----------



## Mummytwins

Michelle

I found out about the conference in one of the threads. If you click on the links I sent it would take you to the website where you can see all the conferences they've already had and hopefully the ones that are planned.


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## Denmommy

thank you, interesting info as to surrogacy conference, new for me. I've look through its agenda, looks very informative, so many speakers. Anastasia will be reporting on surrogacy laws and trends in Ukraine and about multi-national surrogacy. 
you know, we met her personally in the clinic, she seemed to be very professional in this field so she must be interesting to listen to


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Michellemichelle
The payment t surrogate information will be given to my solicitor at the end of our surrogacy, when we need it for parental order. The clinic had been cooperating with her and willing to provide everything we need. She has been out to meet them a few times an is helping them with a few other British/Irish clients as they are not familiar with the requirements (her words not mine) so she said that they are happy to give everything when it is needed. I'm happy with this because i know she is very experiences and will know what information to get from them. 

I spoke to her yesterday and we will be using her for help with immigration. She has contacts within the UK embassy as she has worked with them for years, so although, she may not necessarily be able to move the application faster, she can anticipate what extra things they will ask for and also they will cooperate with her fully. It's enough for me to pay a little extra to avoid this headache. Especially as she told me that there are currently 2 British couples in Kiev stuck and not able to get passports for their children. And they are still waiting. We will also be asking her to help us with our parental order application, as she is familiar with this and works out so much cheaper than the solicitors we have had quotes from. 

S xx


----------



## Denmommy

Hello friends!
juicy23, we contacted isida when we were about to travel  to ukraine, their price are far not inclusive. payment schedule is not transparent, as my dh said. also, they do not provide IPs with accommodation and relevant support package. however, the photos of the clinic seemed very nice to me, big modern clinic, spacious and lots of staff. it's quite strange they do not answer your emails  have they contacted you yet? 

stilltryingandhoping, that's great you found such good solicitor. it seems she is very helpful in your journey. I hope everything will be fine  

lotus, positive vibes for your upcoming EC. fingers crossed 
Wish you all wonderful Friday evening and great weekends!
xxx


----------



## lotus123

Hi everyone!!!

Denmommy, thank you very much!!! Yes, tomorrow is very important day for us - EC. Yesterday I did my last injection - Pregnil 5000, so.. now I'm nervous about how everything will be, how many and how good eggs will be.... And we still haven't decided how many embryos to transfer... 2 or 3...

Stilltryingandhoping, It's very good that you've found such person who you can trust and who can help you!!!
But do you know something about the next attempt? We've wrote that the clinic has matched already SM, but when they will do ET - do you know or still no?

Fingers crossed!!!


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Lotus123 

The best of luck for your egg collection! If your surrogate is found, the transfer will be 5 days after egg collection. When they collect the eggs, they will mix with the sperm and then let the embryos develop until day 5. They will then transfer to the surrogate, and 14 days later they will do the pregnancy test and tell you if it is positive or negative.

The transfer to a surrogate will be this week, midweek for us. We have signed another joint agreement firm and emailed to the clinic. They will get the surrogatebto sign and then email the document to us and our solicitor. So we will find out the result at the beginning of March. Let's see what happens!

S xx


----------



## Maya2016

Dear Lotus123, Dear Stilltryingandhoping,
I will keep my fingers crossed to you! Good luck!


----------



## minerva71

@lotus123, I hope they will retrieve lots of great eggs and you'll get superb embies! Don't forget to share the results! Hope you'll be fine after EC...fingers crossed xx
Stilltryingandhoping, it's great you're moving on after the issues you faced. So, solicitor was a good idea...at least you'll get information about surrogate mother's payment. Wish you luck during upcoming 2ww!!!


----------



## Denmommy

Lotus123, my thoughts are with you today. Fingers crossed on your EC and fast recovery. We all hope to get good news from you soon.

Stilltryingandhoping, fingers crossed on your upcoming ET. waiting for your good news as well. 

as to my updates, they have finally told us the date of scan, February 17. Hopefully everything have worked out and we are travelling to Kiev on Thursday! It our first meeting with surro. It's an important milestone in our journey, we're very excited, and all our family is  in anticipation  

PS: I hope we all will have gorgeous St. Valentines Day with our sweethearts! Romance is in the air!


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi michellemichelle

I'm sorry I didn't understand some of what you've written. Our solicitor is dealing with the clinic for us because we are paying her, it's part of her service. Our manager has been really bad at communicating. I know Anna too, she is very good. She is one of the assistants to our manager. 

The other couples who have had problems getting the baby passports can't leave the country because their baby can't leave the country(without passport). The clinic was supposed to do its part to make the process easier, but as my solicitor found out, they got things done the incorrect way so it's made things very difficult and long winded for example like how they notarised documents. She said that she is helping these clients now also. They had everything ready and waiting, but the clinic needs to do it's part to help the process along. If they don't do it correctly, it slows the process down, it's very difficult with the British embassy.

Yes I'm feeling a little better now that I know someone is handelingnit and more than that, she knows what she is doing! I can relax a little. 

I hope everyone is well!

S xx


----------



## lotus123

Good morning!

Stilltryingandhoping, Maya2016, minerva71, Denmommy, thank you for good wishing and for fingers crossing!!!!
My EC is done. The doctor took 12 follicles and 10 of them yesterday were good. So hoping that most of them will develop as it needed and on Friday we'll have good quality embryos for transfer and for frozing...hoping.... Fingers crossed  

Stilltryingandhoping, best wishes to your frozen embryos and for Wensday transfer!!! Good luck and finger crossed!!! Waiting good news from you after 2 weeks!

Denmommy, finally...12 weeks!!! And you we'll see your lovely long awaited baby!!!! And sm as well. So good luck for you!!! Waiting for sharing of your emotions andinformation about everything of this super journey!!!


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Michellemichelle

My solicitor shared some issues that can arise, informally. She didn't give specific names, she just shared what issues can arise for British couples, because the clinic has not had too many British couples before. For most other embassies, getting passports is very easy so their solicitors can deal with it. The clinic have not really been doing this for Bristish parents,these couples have to do it themselves. The clinic provides documents that are notarised,but if things are not in the correct format, the embassy may not accept them. The clinic did not divulge customer information. 

TBH I just want to know for myself that I have  someone who knows what she is doing so we can get out of the country with our baby as soon as possible. I didn't count on having to pay someone extra money for this service because I assumed it would be done easily through the clinic, but it's because of the UK embassy that things will be a bit more complicated than the Clients from other countries. Perhaps in a year or 2the clinic will be more familiar with UK clients and it will be easier for others.  

S x



Lotus123 

Great that your surgery went well, hoping you have a speedy recovery. And good luck to you too!!

S x


----------



## juicy23

@lotus123, 10 out of 12, it's amazing! I hope you'll have the best embies for ET. 
@Stilltryingandhoping, fingers crossed for your SM's ET!
@Denmommy, congrats on your 12 week scan! You'll see your baby, what could be better!? 
Considering your reply about Isida, well...you were right. I got a reply and I was sent a contract, although it's hard to get all the answers from it. The real price is 40k, 15k for non-medical part and 25 for the medical one. I'm sure there are additional payments..It's like a premonition. Anyways, they could only help you to find a place to stay and so on, but don't provide you with anything of the kind. I can't say it's bad, but Isida's services are pretty expensive then. They have 2 attempts of fertilization in the package and in case of abortion or miscarriage they will give you money back, but the sum depends on a pregnancy term. I asked about the way they take payments but was told only that I don't need to pay the whole amount of money. Not that bad anyway...need to know more, I guess.


----------



## Denmommy

Lotus, great result! well done!   Now fingers crossed for you on Friday.

Juicy, useful information. Consider all options carefully and then take decision. My personal experience shows that men are better in figuring out all financial questions, so be sure to rely on his viewpoint. in fact, 40k is what we'll have to pay in biotex for the whole journey, but hotel and all additional services are included. also - 2 attempts. and what if both fail?   In any case, when you are already in Kiev, you can visit several fertility centers. I think it will provide you with a better overview. Just don't forget to share your views here then, ok? 

Happy St. Valentines Day, ladies!


----------



## Bella2016

Hope&Pray- Thank you for the link to the surrogacy conference. I think we will be attending it. Is anyone else thinking about going?

Also, good luck to Lotus and Stilltrying for your ET. I hope we will be hearing positive news soon.

Bx


----------



## Bdust

Hi All,

Glad to see progress and good news on the thread. Congrats to 
                @Lotus123, wish you speedy recover. 
                @stilltryingandhoping, glad you are making progress and your solicitor is helping with your peace of mind.
                @Denmommy, congrats. 12weeks down and a few more to go..........

All others still in process good luck. Hope I did not miss congratulating anyone. 

Thanks
bdust


----------



## Denmommy

Thank you! We've got news: meeting our surrogate on Friday was an important milestone of our surrogacy journey. She seemed a bit embarrassed when we started introducing ourselves and asking questions on how she feels. Her name is Galya or Galina and she comes from Kiev region. She has two children of her own, school age. She said she is feeling absolutely ok now, but used to have morning sickness on earlier stages. Oh, how I understand her. I remember my morning sickness with my son and it was terrible. Then came those weird food cravings. Oh yes, I know how it all feels but this time not to me. In general, she looked quite healthy and happy. Ultrasound was a burst of emotions, I couldn't help crying. I saw my baby! And everything's fine   They measured collar space: it's within norm. All organs are developing ok. It's too early to talk about the gender yet, I hope it will be clear on the next ultrasound.

Lotus and Stilltryingandhoping, I hope to hear good news from you as well.  I hope all went perfectly well with ET for both of you and that 2ww will be quick and full of positive emotions 
xxx


----------



## lotus123

Hello!!!

Denmommy, Thank you very much!!!
Congratulations!!!   Very good and positive news!!!! How old is your sm? In which hotel have you spent the night? Have you done this scan in the same clinic? Do you have now photo and video?  

I've received some information from clinic and agreement with SM:
On Friday (the 4th day) 7 from 10 eggs developed till compacting morula stage.
On Friday (the 4th day) there were transferred 2 embryos on morula stage.
?? from 5 morula embryos developed till up to the good blastula stage and were frozen - I still don't know the quantity. Waiting the report from embryologist.
Now I know the name and surname of SM. She is from town which is rather far from Kiev - 500 km. 
And one more think...about which now I'm nervous... She is older then I - She is 37 years old...   I thought that this clinic provides sm with ages till 35 years...but not... I've known that till 40 years old  
It's not very good, but hoping that nevertheless the result will be positive!!! 

Waiting 2 weeks...
Fingers crossed!!!


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Everyone

Thank you for all the crossed fingers and well wishes! We are now in the 2ww and waiting to see what happens.

For anyone who was following my diary, I have moved my posts over to a blog and will start to add further posts. Here is a link https://oursurrogacyblog.wordpress.com/
Admin, I hope this is ok to share.

Lotus123
My surrogate is my age, shes 34. I was surprised, the last one was 22. I think because they are so busy, they probably have to accept whoever they can.
Denmommy
Thats amazing. Im so happy and excited for you! 1 trimester down and only 2 to go 

Sxx


----------



## Bdust

Thanks for sharing Denmommy. Glad everything is going well. Almost there

@Stilltryingandhoping that for sharing the new log link. Exciting times. 

@Lotus congrats. Wishing you the best.

Baby dust all around


----------



## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping, Thanks for for link for your super useful and interesting diary!!!

Finally I've received report about my embrions. 
Not so good as I expect: only 9 eggs were mature (not 10 as doctor sad in EC day), 2 morulas was transfered, and 4 blastocysts were frozen  (0 pcs - perfect quality, 3 rather good quality- 3AB, 3AB, 3BB, 1 average- 2BB). 

So now a little bit disappointed and very worried about not perfect quality and the age of SM and the transfer only 2 embrions  (not 3) ... 

Nevertheless i still have hope for luck!!!


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Lotus123

How did you get information about the embryo quality? The embryo report i received and all the other people who i have spoken to, didn't have this. It just had the number of embryos and how many cells it had on each day.

Im going to keep updating my blog as i did my diary on this website, so i hope it helps anyone wanting the information.

s x


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## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping, yes, I've received it today about every of 9 embrions. It has also  cells quantity ob different days, mentioned which were transferred and marks of blastocysts. Is it report? Or i need to know something else? I don't know how this report should be like


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Lotus123

Yours has more information on it that most other peoples, i wonder why they don't give the grade of embryos to everyone. its good they gave you this information.


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## Dory10

Stilltryingandhoping - Absolutely fine to share your blog link, it's a good idea to pop it in your signature, which 
I see you've done so people can see it easily. Good luck  

Dory X


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Thanks Dory


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## Maya2016

Dear Lotus123 and Stilltryingandhoping,

I am keeping my fingers crossed for both of you! Let your SMs bring you lots of happiness!

Denmommy, how old is your SM? When is your next ultrasound? I am looking forward for news from you!


----------



## Denmommy

Hi all and thank you!
Yes, it’s already the second trimester! Still hard to believe!
To answer you all at once, our SM is 35 years old, 3 years older than me, but looks quite young, I would say. She has two children of her own and lives around 100 km from Kiev in a village. Well, I hope that the age of SM is not a key factor, after all (given that she is absolutely healthy and has her own healthy children). However, 40 seems too much    But who knows?
Oh, yes, we have video, we have photos   I keep on looking at them again and again. However, my husband and I, we decided not to share these pics online. At least not now. 
Next ultrasound is on the 16th week. I wish, I hope so much that we will travel to Kiev again this time 
xxx


----------



## Lina 35

Hello everyone. I’m new here. Actually I’m not looking for surrogacy program but for donation. I am from Norway and I am 43. Unfortunately I can’t do egg donation in my own country due to many reasons.  My husband and I are searching for a good clinic abroad. We have already singled out three clinics one of them is situated in Ukraine (biotexcom). Some ladies have recommended me look through this thread because there are people who have already chosen this clinic for themselves.  So,  will you be so kind answer some of my questions?


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## lotus123

Good morning!

How is difficult to be 2ww...

Stilltryingandhoping, fingers crossed!!! Today you will receive your results!!!


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## lotus123

Lisanna, You are welcome!

What kind of questions do you have?
I have experience (surrogacy with my eggs) only with Ukrainian clinic Biotexcom - now we are in process - waiting results of pregnant test of our SM.
I know that this clinic is rather popular. It provices services mostly for foreigner clients and the most popular services are: SM, ED, SM+ED.
Some pairs have signed more than 1 contract and have more that 1 baby with help of this clinics. I hope that I will have in near future the healthy baby as well  

But this clinic not one clinic in Ukraine


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## BlueCloud

Stilltryingandhoping, eagerly waiting and praying for your results. Btw great blog! I regularly check for updates. 

Lotus, when is your test day?

Denmommy, how exciting your post is. It gives me so much hope. 

Our SM has been transferred one beautiful embryo couple of days ago. We will hear the test results on next Friday.


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## lotus123

BlueCloud said:


> Lotus, when is your test day?


Friday afternoon...


----------



## BlueCloud

Lotus, I wish you all the best luck. 

2WW is very difficult to pass! 

Lets hope this week brings this forum a lot good news!


----------



## lotus123

BlueCloud, thank you!
These 2 weeks are really VERY difficult for me... I can't be positive and emotionally stable     

Have you finally chosen clinic for you?


----------



## lotus123

Just have received information from couple from Tunisia (become acquainted when I were last time in Kiev) - they today received results of hcg test - positive!!!!
Their 3 embryos were transferred to SM 2 weeks ago.

So waiting results of Stilltryingandhoping. Fingers crossed!!!


----------



## ab55

Good luck lotus123 and stilltryingandhoping. Wish you a big positive today and Friday. We are with same clinic, got our BFP last Monday. It was a bit low, 111, 14dp5d, so they will test again on Friday. I am still very cautious and afraid to be happy .

Keep us posted ladies and God bless you!


----------



## lotus123

ab55,

Thank you and congratulations on positive hcg test!!!
Good luck to you as well!!
Have you used SM with your eggs or DE?
Were are you from?
How many embryos and what quality were transferred?
This is your first attempt?
What kind of agreement have you written? 


Just have read diary of Stilltryingandhoping!!! They are pregnant!!!!
Congratulations!!!!!!


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi everyone, it's been a long 2ww! I posted a blog post earlier about how stressful it's been(again)  and one just now because we have had our result! 

We got a positive! 
We are very cautiously optimistic, it's early days. But it's great news for today. I've written more about it all on the blog(link is in my signature).

Lotus123 Thank you! I have my fingers crossed for you! I really hope you have some great news to share with us all soon  

Bluecloud thank you for reading the blog and the lovely comments. It's good to know I can carry on sharing my experience of surrogacy.

Thank you everyone for the well wishes.


----------



## Bella2016

Stilltrying- CONGRATULATIONS! I read your blog earlier today and I really felt for you. I don't think I have ever wanted someone to have a positive pregnancy test more than I wanted it for you (apart from me, of course, and Jessica Hepburn when reading her book).   
I understand that you are being cautious, but wishing your surrogate a healthy 9 months of pregnancy!! Your story gives us hope.

Congrats to you to, ab55!!  

and good luck fro Friday, Lotus!!!


----------



## Bella2016

PS: Good luck to BlueCloud, too! And Congrats to Denmommy on the first scan!! Just catching up with the older posts... Good luck to anyone else who is on the 2ww or is about to have ET. Bx


----------



## ab55

Stilltryingandhoping, amazing news! I am so so happy for you! I wish you all the best of luck and a strong heartbeat in 2 weeks time. I am afraid you are right, it's a nerve killing process. Enjoy this wonderful day and a new beginning!

Hi lotus123,

Thank you, as I said I am still very afraid. We used my own eggs, I made it as age (36). My husband had a vasectomy many years ago and we had TESE (sperm retrieval the day I had the egg pickup - 8 Feb). 
In this context we were offered only 1 try contract. This was our 1st try with Biotexcom. I was lucky to have 25 eggs and 12 good blastocysts. We transferred 3 and froze 9. I have no protocol of the embies, they told us they were very good, all A(I guess A something  but never mind. I know how it works with the communication, and I have to admit that my coordinator is wonderful, however the clinic provides her with little information, thing that frustrates me.
I am Romanian.

I may deal with little info from this clinic, but at least they do their work. Hopefully all will be all right for us all and we'll meet in Kiev to pick up the babies.

Again, lots of luck on Friday lotus123 and keep us up to date


----------



## BlueCloud

Stilltryingandhoping: A massive congratulations!!! You really deserved it. I pray that your nine months go safe and quickly. I am so chuffed and so emotional !!! 

Bella, I had a ditto feeling for Stilltryingandhoping! I have been constantly checking and praying for her. 

Our test is on next Friday. Having gone through the 2WW so many times, I hope this one gives us a positive and completes our family.


----------



## Bella2016

BluCloud- I hope it will, fingers and toes cx for you for next Friday!!    

ab55- I am terrified to hear your story, because when the time comes, we would like to go with La Vita Nova agency, which works with Intersono clinic. My fear about going for a single surrogacy program has always been that clinics could or might just lie to make the couples pay for more programs, so I have always wanted to go for a guaranteed program for this reason. I wonder whether they would do such things on the guaranteed program, I hope not. I have also chatted with other ladies, who had good experience with Intersono, but for me if they do this to just one person, it is one too many! Sorry to hear about losing your precious eggs, your DH's sperm and all that money! Cruel! x


----------



## ab55

Keep my fingers crossed for you BlueCloud xx


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Thank you all so much. It's a very emotional journey, the support I've had on this forum has really helped me get through the hard times.

Bluecloud I really hope you have a positive result. And Lotus123, I've already said it,but I'll be thinking god you on Friday. 

Abb55 I hope your retest is positive. Even if the HCG is perceived as low, it's so early that it's not always a bad thing. Everyone's body is different. It's so difficult to wait, but unfortunately, we must have patience. I hope you get the result you want. 

I haven't been on the forum so much the last week so apologies if I've missed anyone out. I've had to take a little time out because the 2WW was really getting to me. Most of you know it was our 7th one! So, from the bottom of my heart, I wish us all some luck in our baby journeys, because I know how hard it can be. 

Sxx


----------



## Denmommy

So many news! Great!
First of all, welcome to all newbies  
Lina35, you're right this is surrogacy thread, but many women here used ED + surrogacy so their experience can be useful for you. We did surrogacy with our own eggs, so I can't be helpful here. we're with biotex, though, so if you have questions regarding their service in general, I'm here for you. 
Stilltryingandhoping, your news made my day! Congratulations!   I was really worried for you and your result! You're right: it's a very early pregnancy and much things have to be done to fully confirm the pregnancy, but yet - I think this is it and your positive test means you'll be a mammy soon! 
Lotus, I know 2ww is very challenging but try to hold on, only a bit more than a day is left. we are waiting for your test result. Everything crossed! Lots of baby dust on you! 
Bluecloud, same wishes for you, good luck and fairy baby dust on you. 
I hope this thread will be full of good news soon.
Waiting for your updates
Good night


----------



## lotus123

Hi!

Bluecloud, I sorry, I've overlooked this moment..this very important moment that you had already chosen the clinic and your frozen embryos were transferred as well! So of course good luck to you and fingers crossed!!!!
How many embryos and with which grade were transferred and whet the test is going to be donefor your SM?

ab55, your story is so...so difficult and not positive... I'm so sorry.. I hope that finally you will reach your cherished dream!!!! Hoping that this HCG will become higher and higher!!! When I've done my hcg test (on my last own healthy pregnancy) - on the 16th day after sex - it be 140...and I had healthy super pregnancy!!!  

Thank you  very much for good wishing!
I need to wait 1.5 day..and I will know the result... But of course after so many positive results I'm afraid that negative an be mine ...


----------



## michellemichelle

@Stilltryingandhoping Huge congrats!!


----------



## rhutes

Hello everyone!
I am new to the forum!
And I am new to surrogacy world too. 
Nice to meet you all!  
PS congratulations to those who have had great news! I do not really understand a lot of terms you are using but I am a quick learner! I hope to get a lot of useful information here!


----------



## lotus123

Dear rhutes,

Welcome  
Some months ago I also didn't even think about surrogacy and IVF services... but life is life and I'm here as well.. I hope not for a long period  
So good luck to you!
And if you have any questions - we'll help you..of course if we can


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Thank you MichelleMichelle! 

Now we wait for another 2 weeks for the scan


----------



## BlueCloud

Stilltryingandhoping are you planning to visit Kiev for the scan? 

Lotus, We transferred 1 x 4BA embryo. The test is next Friday. If this cycle fails, we have 2 x more frozen embryos. Unfortunately we have to pay for any additional trials. 

By looks of it, no matter how unorganised Biotex may appear overall, they are getting the results without charging the IPs again. When I came across this package first time, I thought it was too good to be true. But it looks like the truth! 

I really hope we all get a favourable outcome one way or another.


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Bluecloud

No we won't be allowed to go for this scan. This is just a scan they do to check the embryos and see if they are progressing. 
I think I will go for the 12 week scan if we ge that far. I'm so curious about the surrogate mother. All I know is that she is my age, just 3 months younger than me (34). I take her age to be a positive as she will be able to take care of herself well. 

I feel the same about the clinic. I saw a lot of people with positive results, the medical staff are excellent and I've never had any concerns about them at all. It's the administrative side that has ever effected me. If they have a bit of better coordination, things would be perfect. 

Good luck next week, and to everyone else. I look forward to hearing everyone's news. 

S xx


----------



## lotus123

Why you decided to transfer only 1 embryo? If more embryos -more chance of pregnancy, but as well and for multiple pregnancies...
You don't want twins?  

Biotexcom usually transfer 3-4 embryos. We asked to transfer 2, but now I regret a lit bit of it... may be it would be better 3...


----------



## BlueCloud

Lotus, it's the clinic's policy. They wont transfer more than 1 embryo in first attempt.  
I lost the argument with them. It's probably because they can get more money from a second attempt if first fails I guess :-( 

Oh I would love to have twins 

Lotus, massive good luck for today, Waiting and praying for your positive result


----------



## minerva71

hey there! welcome to newcomers! 

Stilltryingandhoping, congrats on your sm's bfp!!! It's the best news for today. Your blog is so lovely, keep us updated. I'm thinking of you and hoping it's your time to be happy. Btw 7 is a magical number. fingers crossed x

ab55, I'm so sorry for issues you faced, unfortunately male factor is the reason for childless family even more often than we could think. But your story seems to have a happy ending. fingers crossed! as far as I understand, you have oe surrogacy with donor sperm, but I thought you can only use your hubby's sperm to avoid issues when having a dna test..maybe i got it wrong. x  

Denmommy, it's amazing, to see your sweet peas on the screen! I'll experience this only next friday, though. x

Lotus123, I'm waiting for your bfp today!!!!!!! Everything's crossed!xxx

BlueCloud, that's fab news! Congrats on your progress! It's only one week left..you must be very excited. Wish you all the luck! x


----------



## ab55

Hi Minerva,

Thank you! We are waiting for the retest today   and hope it will be all right. If all goes good, we are to register our baby with the Romanian embassy and when I called them, about a year ago, they were very easy and eager to help. I have been told the whole process from baby birth until passport issuance takes 2 weeks only. They don't even require a DNA test if you have the birth certificate on your name. In our case the clinic would have to do the test to prove that SM is not genetically related to baby, but that should be all. Hope to have no surprises later on 

Lots of luck to everybody today! Lotus, praying for you.


----------



## BlueCloud

Good luck ab55  Hope to hear good news  from you too


----------



## lotus123

Just receved results - negative


----------



## ab55

Oh Lotus, I am so so sorry!   no words.


----------



## BlueCloud

Lotus, I am heart broken for your result. I am so sorry. But please be positive and look forward to the next cycle. I know its easier said than done.


----------



## Bella2016

So sorry to hear your news, Lotus.


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Lotus123 
I'm so sorry for your result. You've read my diary, you know that I've been through the 2ww so many times and had a lot of negatives, the disappointment is hard. But please don't give up. Let yourself feel whatever you need to feel, it's ok to be sad. But pick yourself up again and get ready for another attempt. Your time will come, you need to have faith.

S xx


----------



## Denmommy

Oh, Lotus, so sorry to know that    I can't even imagine what you feel now. Please hold on. I hope your dh supports and conforts you at this very tough moment of your life. I know how hormonal stimulation feels, then waiting, and being nervous and stressed. and sure you hoped for positive. but stilltryingandhoping may be helpful for you here. I mean to recover after negative and move forward. I hope they will provide you with a new attempt and surrogate soon. 
if there's anything we can do to cheer you up, just say
xxx


----------



## ab55

Our results are finally in: our Hcg was 752 today!!! Could not believe my eyes. It doubled every 36h since Monday.
Lotus, I hope you will get same within the next try and your story will have a happy ending.
Ladies, a very good weekend to you all!


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Ab55 

That's fantastic news, so happy that it's good news. That's the first hurdle done


----------



## ab55

Indeed it is. Our scan will probably be on the 13th brrr.


----------



## Denmommy

Bluecloud, I didn’t know they can reject you in transferring two embryos. That’s a bit strange, it seems. Really, if you’re desperate of having twins? (and you are). Why couldn’t they transfer two. 
As Lotus said, in our clinic they are more likely to transfer 3 embies. They said it enhances chances many times. I think they are eually interested in your success from the very first attempt, because in biotex they cover all expenses for all further attempts. 
You know, we even had to protect our right to transfer just two (they still recommended to transfer three). However, only one stick. 
But this is just thinking out loud. What I really wanted to say is to have a quick 2ww and good luck at your beta.


----------



## Denmommy

Ab55, good number now! good news!  Yes, it’s rising dramatically. Looking forward to hear your news from the first ultrasound.


----------



## ab55

Thank you Denmommy!


----------



## Bdust

So much good news on the thread. 

Congratulations @Stilltryingandhoping and everyone else with positive results  . For others, hang in there


----------



## BlueCloud

ab55 congratulations!!!hope the hcg keeps rising. i wish you a smooth journey ahead.

Denmommy, i am feeling very nervous at the moment due to 1 x embryo. My agency gave all sorts of reason for not allowing more than 1 embryo in first trial. The one i was scared with the most was a risk of premature birth etc if multiple pregnancy happens. I should have pushed back on this. i am regretting it now. Anyways I hope for the best. I don't have an open chequebook unfortunately so i will have to stop with this clinic if i dont get a success in two trials (this one and one more as we have two more embryos). I will have to rethink my plans and investigate in guaranteed packages. And seeing all of your success stories, i now believe the fact that the guaranteed packages do exist. Not sure if i made the right choice :-(


----------



## ab55

Many thanks BlueCloud, I also hope it will all be good this time.
Regarding the transfer of 1 embryo only: in NL where I started ivf they do not allow more than 1 embryo per transfer as well, unless you are over 38 years old. I found out it's a new trend of fertility clinics to go for only 1. I also know that in UK, where I had my last ivf they said they were not allowed to transfer more than 2 in my age group. I had one extra embryo left and my husband asked them to transfer all 3 but they refused. 
So, in your case, Nadiya only respects the European regulations. I wouldn't worry too much, they have a great reputation, also between the Ukrainian clinics. 
I had a Skype consultation a while ago with somebody from Feskov clinic and I told them some of the issues we had with the previous Ukrainian clinic we used, without naming it. He misunderstood me and thought it was Nadiya, but directly informed me that Nadiya is never doing such things, they are one of the most serious clinics. 
Hope you'll get a healthy positive (Friday, I think?)


----------



## michellemichelle

Okay so I am back from Kiev! Our SM had a successful embryo transfer as far as I know they have transferred 3 embryos. But I was told not too long ago that it is ok. Well, we are on 2ww I suppose that we worry the most out of all the people who are involved in our surrogacy program and ET itself. 
Hope to receive a positive result!!
Do you think that it is 100% possible? 
My hands are sweaty and I am a bit shaky.. Nerves…
Good luck to everyone!


----------



## Denmommy

Bluecloud:
“Not sure if i made the right choice :-( “ oh, dear, please don’t say so. Every choice you make is a right choice because this is YOUR choice. we all have our own reasons to take certain decision. I’m sure everything will be great. Two attempts is also a lot. And please don’t worry about transferring one embryo. No one can give you any guarantees, no matter if 1 or 3 were transferred. Agree? Hope is all we have.


----------



## Denmommy

Michelle, nice to hear all was well with your ET . 3 embryos is ok for biotex. This is what they usually choose to do. As I’ve told before, it was our request to transfer only two. As a rule, they advise to transfer 3. But as I’ve told in my previous posting, it seems nothing can guarantee you 100% result. So this is my answer to your question. Unfortunately, you can never be 100 percent sure. In any case, in two weeks you will know 
We all hope to hear positive news from you. when is your official beta by the way?


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi everyone! I hope everyone is well in the different stages of their journey.

Bluecloud, for anyone under 35 in the UK, most clinics will only transfer 1 embryo. This is because when you transfer a blastocyst, there is a higher risk of it implanting. And with pregnancies with more than 1 baby, there is more risk to the babies and mother. When I had IVF in the UK, we were only allowed to have 1 embryos transferred the first 4 times! On the 5th I had to argue so much, and they finally allowed it (I was also 34 yrs oldso I think that counted). The most important thing is that you only need 1 healthy embryo! I have everything crossed for you 

Michellemichelle 
The 2ww is soooooo hard, I know. As with all things, there is no guarantee. We had 3 embryos transferred into a surrogate in December and we got nothing. This time we had 2 transferred and we got an early positive. So sometimes it's just luck, plain and simple . I hope it works for you, I know it's hard because you don't know if the surrogate is having any symptoms, I feel the same now in my second 2ww, while we wait for the scan result to see if the pregnancy is progressing. All we can do is hope and pray 

DenMommy 
Have you decided if you are going to go to Kiev for the next scan?

S xx


----------



## BlueCloud

Thank you for the support. You all right about 1 x embryo transfer. When I went through PDG IVFs in London and they always transfer 1.  I guess I am a bit loopy in 2WW.  

There is nothing I can do to change the outcome and not knowing how our SM is feeling is driving me crazy. I am in touch with SM via whatapp and help of Google translator but her replies are very short and I feel a bit embarrassed by asking her how is she feeling :-(

2WW is a hard waiting game. I try to be busy at work and at home but my head is full of thoughts constantly. 

michellemichelle, Good luck with your 2WW. When is your test date?


----------



## Bella2016

Congrats Ab55! Strong betas!
Good luck for your beta test BlueCloud and MichelleMichelle!!  

Can I ask you ladies if you remember what the parameters for acceptable semen analysis (sperm count, motility and morphology) are in Ukraine? 

Thanks. Bx


----------



## ab55

Thanks a lot Bella!
No idea, I will ask my coordinator for you. Hope she can help.
Michele and BlueCloud, lots of luck and keep us posted.


----------



## hopeandpray

Good Evening everyone, 

i'm still lurking whilst waiting to fly out to visit La Vita Nova at the end of the month. I am hoping they will be able to answer all of my questions as I feel in over my head and confused by the process of getting home with the baby.

Anyway today my co-ordinator emailed me after I mentioned my concerns with staying in Kharkov for 3-4 months waiting for passports. This is what she said.....

"First of all , as shows the practice, its not absolutely necessary that you stay in Ukraine all the time waiting for regular passport. Instead, you can apply first for a so called emergency passport (travel document) to be able to leave Ukraine with its help. In this case you would stay at home waiting for a regular passport."

Is this an option? Has anybody else considered travelling back on an emergency travel document. I can't imagine this is true.

Also I am wondering what people are planning on doing when the 90 day visa runs out. Are we meant to apply for an extended visa before we travel out or is it an easy process to apply for extension once inUkraine. 

Thank you in advance as always for your wisdom / experience.

x


----------



## ab55

Hopeandpray, I do not know where you are from, however, for us, at the Romanian embassy, they do not even issue a passport for a new born. They will transcribe the birth certificate and issue the travel document to fly out and only once in my country I can ask for a passport. If I was you I would call the embassy in Kiev to be sure.
Lots of luck!


----------



## hopeandpray

Thank you ab55 I will have look online for the embassy contact details and ask.


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hopeandpray
Are you British? From what I understand, you can only obtain an emergency travel document if you have a valid reason to need to go back very quickly. One of the recent reasons I've seen someone travel this way was because the baby was sick and needed treatment in the UK(or so the clinic said). Other than that, I believe we have to go down the route of getting a passport.
For visa extension, we have to apply for an extension a couple of weeks before the visa finishes. I don't know much about it yet, but trying to find out how easy it is to do. I know,sometimes the Ukranian officials are easy going and sometimes they drag their heels. You can ask if he agency can help you with this. 

Hope this helps. 
S xx


----------



## Lacerta

Hello all! I have been looking through different forums and communities, but it's the first one where I managed to find information about surrogacy in Ukraine. It's my first post ever, I count on your support. I signed a surrogacy contract with Biotexcom. We had the first consultation, everything went good, manager and coordinator were very nice ladies, they told us everything we wanted to know. We are pretty satisfied, but I've read that some of you, girls, faced with legal issues and I'm now a bit worried. Maybe there are things I'd better know about surrogacy there? Thank you. I hope you all feel good.


----------



## hopeandpray

Thanks S, yes we are British. 
I thought it sounded too good to be true. ive opted to sign with LVN but to transfer to Kiev after the birth. 
To be honest your poor experience with BioTexCom put me off which is one of the reasons I found an alternative clinic and I'm just hoping I've made a good choice. They are very quick to reply to emails,always bless than 4 hours (unless overnight) , the English is good, I can have direct contact with SM and they have said they will provide information about dates and amount of payments to SM so a good start. 
Lots of luck , I'm following your blog. And counting down to the scan with you 
X


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hopeandpray
I'm glad you've found a clinic/agency that's fast at responding. I have to be honest, after my major meltdown with the English department manager, she worked very well with the lawyer I've commissioned and had tried to accommodate me the best she can. It helped that I've picked a lawyer that is well known in international surrogacy cases and speakers at these conferences all over the world. But the stress we have gone through to get to this point wasn't worth it for me, and I wish I would have known about these challenges before i signed with them. 
Maybe it's just that one manage I had and the rest are ok! Who knows?!
Let's hope it's easier for you! 

Sxx


----------



## Bella2016

S- can I ask the name of the solicitor you used? It would be good to save her details for the future, just in case... I suppose she deals with all of the surrogacy clinics and agencies rather than just Biotexcom alone?

I must say that the more people I talk to and the more research I do, the more disappointed I get, because the more I find out that every single clinic and agency has an agenda and something problematic about them, but some people just get lucky enough not to run into these problems. Not one single clinic (no matter how good they seem or how expensive they are) will have everything good and professional about them. But I am coming to the conclusion that I'd rather have a clinic that will be able to help me have a baby, so the clinical/medical side of things is good, because then having admin or immigration problems would be 'good problems' to have. Whereas if a clinic/agency is good at admin and the legal side of things, but bad at the clinical/medical part of the program, then it would be a 'bad problem' to have, as all the money is gone and there is no baby in the end. Either way, surrogacy doesn't seem to be any easier than going through ivf and sadly it isn't the 'miracle cure' that I falsely thought it might be. 

I am going to a surrogacy conference, where Anastasia from Biotexcom is supposed to be talking, so that will be interesting. I am surely going to ask her some very difficult questions (difficult for her) and challenge her on a few things. They seem to get good results, but at what cost/price! They need to get their act together! x


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Bella

The lawyer I'm using will be at the conference doing a talk too, her name is Poonam. Try to meet her and have a chat with her. I was trying to attend the conference this weekend in London, but I'm way too swamped with work and can't take the time out. I probably would have asked Anastasia those difficult questions so in a way, it's probably for the best. Please do share what happens and what she says, I would love to hear all about it. Particularly if you ask what the average is that surrogate mothers get paid. They have all avoided giving an answer, and it's completely baffling me(even though she said they will provide this at the end of the surrogacy). 

S xx


----------



## ab55

A while ago I asked my co-ordinator how much these ladies are getting paid for their "services". For us it is not important from a legal point of view but I actually wanted to know for myself. She said they get between 8 and 10K, depending if it's a singleton or a twin. I also know they receive about 2 -300 a month during pregnancy and the rest only after they give birth and they have signed the papers they agree the child is registered on your name. Hope it helps.

BlueCloud, big day for you today! Keep my fingers crossed! Xx


----------



## BlueCloud

Hi All, unfortunately it's a negative for us. :-(


----------



## ab55

Oh BlueCloud, I am so so sorry for you  
I really do not know what I could say to comfort you. Words do not help in these situations.


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Bluecloud I'm so sorry  I hope you are ok.
S xx


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## hopeandpray

BlueCloud I'm really sorry , sending positive thoughts and kindness your way. X


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## Denmommy

sad news today   - Bluecloud, I'm so sorry for your negative. I hope you're holding on and will try again.


----------



## Denmommy

Bella 2016, I agree with in most of the points. Sure, surrogacy is not a miracle cure, but for most of us here it is/was the last hope and hopefully it really works. Yes, it’s a despair to know of the failures, but in still so many people become parents through surrogacy and are happy parenting. I hope we all will soon be added to that list. You’re also right that no clinic is perfect, so you just need to get all pros and cons and find what’s best for you. what for important for us was fixed price and unlimited number of attempt covered by contract. Hopefully, it worked from the very first attempt, but still I’ve heard/read many stories of numerous attempts , so it was important for me to have some guarantees and not waste time and money. 
Btw, it’s so good for you that you can visit surrogacy conference and ask Anastasia questions. This is great opportunity. It would be interesting to know more details about it. we really enjoyed communication with Anastasia.


----------



## Denmommy

Lacerta, hi and welcome. We’re also with biotex, doing own eggs surrogacy. may I ask what package have you chosen? And who is your manager?
Your worries are pretty much understandable. I was at your place not so long ago and I remember how it feels. You can get a lot of info in this thread. Much said about biotex as well.  They should have explained all legal aspects regarding bringing baby back to your country. Where are you from, btw? 
You’ll never know where surrogacy journey will bring you and as Bella said it’s not a miracle cure, but we all hope for best. To cheer you up a bit, I want you to know that for us it worked from the very first attempt!


----------



## Denmommy

Stilltryingandhoping, thank you for asking and caring, but unfortunately we’re not travelling to Kiev this time, our 16 weeks scan. It’s on Tuesday and we’re very impatient to get the result. I hope they will contact us as soon as possible. I’m not sure that it’ll be possible to know the baby’s sex, but I’m really very very impatient to know. So I hope US doctor will check attentively.


----------



## BlueCloud

Bella, good to hear you will attend the conference. Please do share some useful insights. 

Denmommy, your excitement is very natural.  You can pretty much guess baby's gender at 16 weeks if the ultrasound pictures are taken to see baby's nub. Please google nub theory to check gender and you will see what I mean  Good luck with your scan. 

Thank you all for kind words. I have taken another kick in the teeth and trying to shake off the pain. I should start thinking about the second cycle. The agency is ready to start another cycle as soon as SM has her period. It also means we have to pay another $3000 for FET cycle. They have agreed to transfer two embryos next time. If next cycle fails, I will have to pay another $7000 to do new donor egg cycle as we wont have any embryos left. My agency is fantastic but I need to watch my pocket. 

At the moment I am beating myself for not choosing a guaranteed package.   I wish I knew you all 5 months ago, I would have changed my opinion about BioTex!


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Bluecloud 

Will you be using the same surrogate with the next attempt? If so, I would really recommend leaving it another month. Whenever I had Ivf, my doctors were very strict about this to give my body a rest, and they said it was important to increase success rate. It's worth mentioning  

S xx


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Bella

My lawyer messaged me earlier and said that a lovely couple friend of mine had come and spoken to her at the conference today. She didn't remember the names but I'm assuming it was you and your husband  

How did it go? 
S xx


----------



## Lisanna

lotus123 said:


> Lisanna, You are welcome!


Hi lotus123, thank you so much!

Hi ab55, wow, that is great to hear that you are with Perfect Surrogacy Coordination Center, the PSCC too! I looked through all the ,massages and I congratulate you with a very good result! Wish you a good ultrasound results tomorrow as well! Ok, here what I have, we have visited Kiev last week and it was no great and easy! We signed some papers and now we go for surrogacy+egg donation. My husband had low good forms (spermogram), but enough for the package that gives a guarantee, so I am on 7th heaven! Now they will find a surrogate mother and egg donor for us - we agreed with my husband not to choose by picture. 
Anna was great and so friendly, have never experienced such a warm welcome in USA clinics or agencies...and I have had a lot in past! We selected a clinic and I think it is a good choice, we trust PSCC to go to Biotex. Can you tell me, how quick you had the procedure after you signed documents? We were promised fertilization for end of this month....hm... if it's truth, their fee is actually worth it! 
PS. Sorry for the TESE experience, but I think you will have a beautiful baby!


----------



## ab55

Hi Lisanna,
Thank you. We had a good experience by Biotex, as most ladies said, admin part is not great. But we had Anna, as external party and I must admit she's worth every penny.
She acts as a friend and helps you all the way. Waiting time: we signed on the 16th of January and I started stimulation (no inhibation used this time) on the 27 of January. I had egg retrieval 8th Feb and ET on the 13th. It could not be any shorter. We hope we'll have a healthy baby this time as health it's all that matters.
Wish you lots of luck and keep us posted.
X


----------



## Bella2016

Hi everyone,

First of all, BlueCloud, I am so very sorry to read about your news. Big hug and wishing you all the best with your next cycle. A lot of ladies succeed only the second time, so please do not give up hope.   

S- Yes, we met P yesterday and she was so lovely! And very funny, too. She gave us some good insight into which clinics are good in Ukraine and which ones to avoid, on basis of her many years of experience. She mentioned two other clinics, but we would need to go through an agent and their prices and packages are different. She did say, though, that she would be happy to help and support us through the whole process, whichever clinic we might choose, so that was very reassuring. Thanks for recommending her.  

Denmommy-we have also come to the conclusion that we would only go for a fixed priced package with unlimited number of attempts offered, whether we call it a 'guaranteed' package or 'all-inclusive' package or whatever, for many reasons and not only for financial reasons alone.


----------



## Bella2016

So, yesterday we attended the surrogacy seminar, which was very good, mainly for networking and meeting people. I had only learnt a couple of new things, as most things I had already known from researching and from you ladies!  

It was clear that the US has the highest success rates and the most attractive programs with the best IVF technology, but they are ridiculously expensive, unless one is an investment banker or a professional footballer. Their quotes were between 100,000-200,000 USD. The parents who had children through the US and spoke at the seminar used to work in finance or investment banking. 

Canada was a very good option and is cheaper than the US. They also provide free ‘NHS’ services, which mean that if anything goes wrong, such as pre-mature birth or of the baby is in NICU, no extra money needs to be paid, so it is less financially risky. However, it is still way out of our budget and it is also very far.

UK Surrogacy was anther option, but it is altruistic surrogacy rather than commercial, which means that it takes a lot longer to find a surrogate, because first a relationship must be built between IPs and the SM first and trust and transparency are the most important factors. The IPs get a lot more involved with the pregnancy and support the SM throughout and they often make lifelong friendships. However, this isn’t for everybody and also, the SM has to choose a couple on basis of their profile and I think I would feel hurt and rejected if we are not picked by anyone for a while (especially after so many IVF failures).

Anastasia was there from Biotexcom. She talked about how they select the SMs and they are looked after by their clinic. She played the video that is on their website, which shows the life of a SM at their clinic. I am not sure, if that how it really is in reality, but surely if it is, then that is brilliant. I talked to her in the break and she seemed very nice. She didn’t disclose any specific information about how much compensation the SMs get, despite my persistence to get a figure. She did say, though, that at the end of the process and after the baby is born the SM has to sign an affidavit in front of a notary, which would state how much compensation they had and how much payment they got each month and for what. She said it was not possible to say this before the process, as each surrogate is different and some had more needs than others. However, she did reassure me that they had never had an issue with British couples getting the parental order and they had dealt with many IPs form the UK over the years. 

So, what I learnt was that there are hybrid surrogacy programs now, where one can use, say, a US surrogate (and/or egg donor), but go through a clinic abroad, for instance in Cyprus, Spain or Canada. This reduces the cost significantly (so, it is under 90,000USD) and the IPs don’t have to travel a lot, but this involves multi-national surrogacy, so the SM needs a very good health and life insurance, plus it may be trickier with the immigration part of the process. There was a US surrogate, who had a baby in Cyprus for an Austrian couple. To be honest, for us, this would complicate everything, so we wouldn’t even consider this as an option, but it works for some people. 

The most important lesson I am learning is that one must do an awful LOT of research before choosing a clinic, as first impressions are the worst deciding factors in the case of surrogacy. So, having quick and good responses from a clinic or agency doesn’t mean that they are good and trustworthy.  

I hope this is helpful. Good luck to everyone.. I know I will certainly need it.   xx


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Lisaanne

When I went to Biotexcom in September to sign contact, we were told that economy and standard package had the same wait times of up to 3 months and VIP was 1 month. We signed contracts at the beginning of September and my stimulation began in November and embryo transfer was in December. I believe, they now say that standard package wait is up to 2 months(I saw this in the website in ge online webinar video).

Bella you are very welcome. I hope Poonam can help you with whichever clinic you choose. She is lovely, she really helped ease my mind when it comes to our clinic. 

DenMommy
I hope your scan goes warm and the clinic send you your report promptly. I can imagine you will be excited and waiting  it may be early to know the sex of the baby but if you ask them for he video, you can look and try to guess too. In the next few months you will know for sure  

I'm anxiously waiting for Wednesday! My nerves have been on edge, we just don't know what to expect.

S xx


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Bella

Really great to read your post about the conference yesterday. It definitely is an eye opener when you speak to people and delve a little deeper. For me, it happened when I spoke to a lot of people out in Kiev. Anastasia also told me that they have had many British couples at their clinic, I think they have more experience now than they have ever had. My solicitor told me that she is helping many British couples as the clinic was unsure of them, so maybe the coming year or 2 are the best years to try that clinic. Surely, they will see the need to expand their English speaking team and rectify the communication issues(and that will actually make
this  a wonderful clinic). Keep us posted on what you decide to do. 

S xx


----------



## Bella2016

S- yes, you are right, they are trying to improve things, so hopefully they get there... 'A' actually said in her speech that they now work together with an international legal firm to help them with legal advice for UK couples and both 'P' and I thought that she was talking about 'P' and her company.   Also, I made some good points to 'A' about setting very good boundaries and use clear communication to couples to prevent misunderstanding and upset and I explained that if they tell me that they cant get back to me after 5pm, but will respond within 48 hours, then I won't get upset, but if they promise to get back on the same day and don't, then I will have grounds for making a fuss. I emphasised with how demanding and overwhelming a job it must be for a co-ordinator to be there for IPs 24/7 when they have their own lives and families, but I pointed out that the IPs should not be punished for the lack of structure and organisation on the clinic's part. She said it was helpful feedback and will try to improve communication etc... x


----------



## hopeandpray

Bella I've PM'd you. 
Thanks for all the info from conference. It seems like it was really worth while. Xx


----------



## Bella2016

Hopeandpray- I PM'd you back.x

S- I also PM'd you. x


----------



## ab55

Ladies,
For us, ultrasound day has come...with a big surprise. We have twins!!! That much I never expected, I was praying for one healthy baby after seeing the initial low beta. I showed the message to my husband who almost felt down  
I've got a nice photo and a video and very happy my co-ordinator was so great to go to the clinic and take them for us. 
Today I am over the moon


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Abb55 

That's wonderful news! This had made me smile so much  I send lots of virtual hugs your way!
I'm so nervous about our scan on Wednesday. I don't think I want to see images or a video yet, I'll wait to get to 12 weeks. I will be too scared of getting emotionally attached more than I am and then something going wrong 😬

Bella
Thanks for the message. I tried to reply but your inbox was full. I'll try again later. 

S xx


----------



## ab55

Many thanks Stilltrying, sending you also lots of luck for Wednesday! 
Love,
Axx


----------



## BlueCloud

Wow so many posts!!

Hope you all had a lovely weekend. 

Bella thank you for sharing the information from conference. It has been very helpful. I may also contact 'P'. Can you please PM her contact details if you have? 

ab55, What a lovely news after the initial HcG issue. I am so happy for you.    

Stilltryingandhoping, I will be waiting and praying for your scan this Wednesday like everyone on this virtual friends group.  Also thank you for reminding me about the downside of immediate transfer. I was also discourage for the same in UK for my transfer. I have raised this with the clinic and lets see what they say. On the other hand, I checked some research papers about immediate transfer and delayed transfer. To my surprise, the research suggests, it doesn't affect the outcome. My dilemma is that I want to try again asap. Anything slips into next year baby's delivery wise is going have an impact on my daughter who will start school soon. 

All weekend I have prepared myself to mentally and did financial planning to switch the clinic. I wont give up that easily. I like the Latin phrase I came across "Aut inveniam viam aut faciam" for "I shall either find a way or make one."


----------



## Denmommy

BlueCloud, I’ve checked up baby’s nub theory. I must admit it was absolutely new for me. Sure we’ll try and then know how accurate is this theory. Yes, I’m expecting to see not only US pictures, but video as well. Then we will look for a nub.
Great to hear that you’re holding on, and get ready for a new cycle. But I agree with Stilltryingandhoping that you’d better give your SM some time to rehab.


----------



## Denmommy

Ab55, your news is just fantastic! Congrats on twins!


----------



## Denmommy

Stilltryingandhoping, keeping fingers crossed for you on Wednesday and sending positive vibes 
We’re expecting to get our scans information and ultrasound photos (and I hope video) tomorrow. Each time I’m excited as if it’s the first time


----------



## Denmommy

Bella, thanks for informing us on surrogacy conference. The way you describe it, it sounds very interesting and informative with lots of people involved in surrogacy. And meeting with recommended lawyer was an extra bonus for you  
Multinational surrogacy is something I knew very little about, so thank you for explaining. Yes, sounds very intricate, but good that it works for some people. Maybe with years it will get more legally regulated.


----------



## Denmommy

Lotus123, you haven't posted for a while. Everything's ok? I hope you're holding on, but if there's something we can help you with, just say. I've been thinking about you. Any news about your new attempt?


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi everyone

For anyone wanting Poonam's contact details, please send me an inbox message and I'll pass them on to you. I'm going to create a ******** group and add her to it, so we can all ask her some questions and everyone on the chat can get the answers. Would anyone be interested in being in the group? 

S xx


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Bluecloud
Thank you so much for the prayers! We need every single one  

DenMommy 
Good luck with your scan too. I hope you can get a better idea from the scan on the gender  

S xx


----------



## Lisanna

Stillwaitingandhoping, thanks for the info, I know they do the first try fast 1-3 month ( my friend went there, but when we talk about unlimited, the time between procedures becomes longer, it can reach like 6 month and more and they say about it in video on their website). We like our coordinator from Perfect Surrogacy Center, that lady actually was a head of their English unit in this clinic for a long time and now she gives service like independent assistance Center, she has personal agreement with the director of this clinic, I think Alberto his name, so there are a lot of privilages that we like better. Who want to go directly, its ok, but we are very setisfied right now
ab, that is really fast! 
Twins! Wow! Congratulations! Has Anna met your surrogate mom? So nice! Keep us informed!


----------



## ab55

Thank you very much for the congratulations ladies and wish you all lots of success!
Axx


----------



## ab55

Lisanna,
Did not see your question, sorry for that. Yes, Anna met our SM, she was so kind to go to the clinic this morning and send me all details, including a photo of our Lady Luck. She seems very nice and she's smiling. I understood she has the morning sickness and felt bad for her after all she does for us. I am so grateful there are still countries where we can have surrogacy! Lots of luck to you too and hope you'll not have to wait for the 2nd attempt to be successful.


----------



## Bella2016

Hello lovely ladies,

Abb55- Congratulations, again on your wonderful news!!! How lovely that Anna met your SM. It sounds like she is a blessing from heaven and is so useful to have if one decides to go to Biotexcom. Either her or Poonam for those who need some legal assistance, too. Or even better, both if one can afford it!

Lisanna- are you also at Biotexcom and is Anna your coordinator, too?

Bluecloud- I am glad you found the info helpful. I see that Stilltrying has offered to give you and ladies Poonam's contact details, I have also heard about her through S. Good for you that you have such a positive attitude- you are a fighter!!

S- I think the ******** group idea is brilliant and I would like to be part of it. I am already connected to P on ********, as she said it would be easier for her than emailing her. I emailed you, but once again, good luck to you with the Wednesday scan, we are hoping to hear good news!!

Denmommy- I am glad you found the info helpful. Wishing you good luck for tomorrow!!! I hope you will hear very good news and if you find out the gender of the baby, that would be a bonus!! 

Hopeandpray- I hope you got my email and that you are ok.

Lotus- how are you doing Are you going to start your next cycle soon? I hope you are well.

Bella xxx


----------



## Mummytwins

Ab55 wonderful news. Congratulations!

Stilltrying best wishes and positive vibes for Wednesday.

Everyone else best of luck all the way


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## lotus123

Hello!

Ab55, congratulations!! Twins- super!!!! Fantastic news!!!
BlueCloud, I'm so sorry for negative news... Be strong, however this is rather difficult... Do you know the grades if your embryos?
Stillwaitingandhoping, good luck for you for Tomorrow!!!! Waiting your diary update 😘

Thanks for everybody for support!
Denmommy, Bella, I'm here...Thanks that you remember about me. It's very nicely!!!

I read this forum but it's rather difficult to write.... I don't know what to write...
Clinic (doctor with embryologist) has decided to use frozen embryos for the next attempt  (however I had asked them maybe it's better to stimulate me one more time for receiving embryos with better quality). When will be the next attempt? I don't know. I only know that they have problems now with finding healthy surrogate mothers... and in addition i had asked them to try to find younger SM for me than previous  (37). So now we are waiting...and drink vitamins and DHEA to improve our eggs and sperm for the 3rd attempt  (if second will be negative).


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Lotus123 
It's good to see a new post from you. I know what you mean about not knowing what to write, I needed t Me out after my last negative result. Our current one is frozen cycle, so don't discount your frozen embryos. In the UK we are told that frozen cycles have a better chance of success, as they usually only transfer embryos that fully defrost and start to divide again. These already give a good indication of being strong because they survive the freezing and thawing process. Also my surrogate is 35 this year, same age as me. Maybe 37 is a little too old though. I hope they find you a surrogate soon! 

Bella 
Can you message me your number so I can start and add you to the group today pls  

S xx


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## lotus123

Stillwaitingandhoping, really I can't even imagine how you and other girls can survive after so many fails!!!  As you known till some months ago I don't value this fact that I was pregnant 2 times from first attempts!!! But a lit of people- not... even with IVF.... as I'm now..  and only now I'm thinking about it...


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## Lisanna

Bella2016, yes, we have the same coordinator Anna from PSCC. We had 3 clinics to choose, but we liked Biotx, because of good success rate and Anna told us it is actually a better choice for us and we read a lot of good reviews. I had numerous cycles in USA and Spain...I wish I knew about Ukraine surrogacy long before... But now i am calm, we have a procedure the last week of March, fingers crossed xx


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## ab55

Thanks you so much Bella, Hope&Pray and Lotus, we are so very happy with the result. I look forward to congratulating you all with good results in the near future. Perhaps 2017 is the year of good changes. Xx


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Lotus123 

Did you know that on average it takes 2 attempts to have a positive? This is an average though, some people have more and some less. But don't be disheartened that it didn't work the first time. It will happen, you just need to be patient and have faith  

S xx


----------



## hopeandpray

Evening Ladies, 

Well quite confusingly there is another lady called hopeandpray on this page - hello hope&pray, good minds think alike. Does anybody know if its possible to change you profile name? I've been in to my account but can't see that there is.

S - That's a great idea about the ******** group, I'll inbox you my number. Just one more sleep to go until your scan. And then the countdown to the next scan begins. My husband no longer believes me when I say, ill relax when........  He knows that's not true and there is always another date to be nervous about. New parents talk about "The Fear" that you have when your first child is born and how you'll never relax again but to be honest I've had The Fear for years 


ab55 - Congratulations on Twins!!! Fantastic news and thoroughly deserved after such a journey to parenthood. I hoping the next 7-8 months fly by for you.

BlueCloud - What we have to remember is that these are fully fertile women and i'm sure an early transfer won't be any problem at all. We've spent so long thinking if we did something different the outcome would change o its hard to stop the worrying. Fingers crossed for a positive result soon. 

Bella - thank again for all the information you provided. Let us know what your next plan is. I'll try and feedback all the info I can about my trip to Ukraine when I return ( not going till end of March).

I have changed minds about clinic yet again. I have now decided to get back in touch with BTC. Husbands response = ok we will change AGAIN but maybe you can read too many forums. Cheeky git!!

x


----------



## ab55

Hopeanpray, to change the name we see, please go to Profile, then to account settings and there you will see your current username and below Name: you can change the name to something different and that will be the one showed after you save. Good luck! 
Many thanks for your words and good luck with your new choice, I am happy for you. I know how difficult it is to decide for a clinic/agency and how many doubts you have. Only a positive result can bring you some confidence. I've done lots of reasearch but 1st time I can only say I had bad luck with the honesty of the clinic. That is why I consider this forum so so good. Unfortunately I found it only late.


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## michellemichelle

@Stilltryingandhoping
Thank you for your reply! hm.. well... this is very hard to wait till news come, the test is on 20/03 which is in a few days, I have sent my manager a small reminder to update me right away... so I definitely receive news as soon as possible. Oh, I am nervous. 
This is great that you had your bfp right now. Oh I just want to believe that it works out, it is so hard to think so knowing that there is no 100 percent guarantee actually. But I want to believe haha 
Do you think it is possible to have a photo of my SM on the day of her hcg? I mean, have you asked for something of that sort?


----------



## michellemichelle

@BlueCloud 
Thank you very much! It is in 5 days! I can't wait. Hopeful it is positive! x)


----------



## michellemichelle

@ab55
thank you a lot! I am going to post some updates the day I receive news from my manager. I think that it is going to be positive, I just cannot make myself think about bfn at all. I am praying for great results.


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## Mummytwins

Hello everyone

I hope you are all holding on and holding up.

Hopeandpray, yes what a coincidence of name! May our hopes and prayers fight this battle and win for us  

Bella thanks again for the insight you provided on some clinics and agencies following your attendance at the conference and your further research. It was very kind of you to share. It got me really thinking and panicking. I am aware of one of the agencies that was suspected but I can't name them here for obvious reasons. But all I want to say is that I felt so unease that I had to do my own research and also contacted the agency directly to query these allegations because they had always been top on my list to sign up with following my research and personal experience with other clinics and agencies. Indeed there was a story but not as it was relayed. There were some unlawful activities being spearheaded by the then director. The other managers were not happy about it and it was actually them who reported the matter to the authorities which resulted in the prosecution of that director and reorganisation of the agency with new management and new name. This was the information I found both on the internet by myself and also directly from the agency.

As AB55 said,  it is indeed difficult to decide on a clinic/agency and there always will be doubts. Some have bad experience while others have positive experience. It depends on who is telling the story, opinions could sway either way. But at the end, it is up to each individual to make their own decision based on their own personal circumstances and requirements.

Apologies, I don't mean to cause confusion but I just thought it is good for people to have all the facts available to enable them make an informed decision.


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## Mummytwins

Bella - I tried to PM you but your inbox is full!


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## hopeandpray

A little rant. Emailed BTC yesterday. Still nothing. Choosing clinics is like choosing between a punch in the face or a kick up the bum. Both unpleasant and painful. 😡😡


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## ab55

Hi hopeandpray, I understand how frustrating it is to wait an answer which is always late. Bella remarked recently that response time is not the right criteria in choosing a party to work with and I totally agree with her. I have to say I also can't put up with delays and lacks in communication, plus all trouble I had with one manager, I will not bore you all here with, made me look into alternatives. We went through coordination center and I can't say anything else that it was best choice ever. It is such a pity admin part ruins big part of BTC's doctor's work! Wish you lots of success!

Denmommy, I did not see anything from you and latest scan. Is everything ok? Or am I blind?

X


----------



## Bella2016

Lotus- how lovely to hear from you! It must be very hard for you and I am sorry. Hopefully, you find this lovely group of ladies very supportive. I know from my own IVF how very difficult it is to have a BFN. Sadly, I have got used to them now and cannot even imagine a BFP. But, with surrogacy, it is very different, because these ladies are healthy and fertile. A BFN can be the combination of so many things and it is nature, so trust that the next one will be a BFP!!   

Can is ask, why do they have problems finding healthy SMs??  Btw, I do not believe that 37 years old is old at all when it comes to surrogacy. There are even 46 years-old ladies in the UK who are surrogates. As long as the womb is healthy and there have been previous healthy pregnancies and deliveries, age is insignificant. Age is only important for egg quality, but not so for a healthy womb. Many consultants have told us this and there are so many ladies on FF in their 40’s, who have babies with DE.  

Re using frozen embryos, like S said, there is evidence that FET can be more successful that fresh transfers. They talked about this at the surrogacy conference, too. And today when I was at my IVF clinic, I noticed that their success rates with fresh transfers was 52% and for FET 76% for all ages. I even said to my DH how much higher the success rate for FET was. 
Wishing you all the best and good luck with your next attempt.


----------



## Bella2016

Lisanna, thank you for the information. You are the second lady, who has mentioned Anna at PSCC to me. It sounds like a good option to have when choosing BTC.   Can I ask you why you didn’t like the US? Did you go for a surrogacy program there? I really liked a few clinics at the conference, but their prices were sky high. If we had the money, we would def go there.   So, it would be interesting to hear about your experience. Maybe I am deluded to think that surrogacy would be better/easier/safer there.   

Michellemichelle- good luck for the 20th!! Fingers cx for you for a positive beta!  

Hope&Pray- I have cleared some space in my inbox. I have also emailed you. Thank you for your post. That is interesting to hear. At least they didn’t deny anything and gave you an explanation. I agree with you that it depends on who is telling the story, who is the one that we are talking to, where our and others’ evidence comes from…etc But at the end of the day, there are both good and bad experiences everywhere. Even clinics in the UK have very different reviews; some hate and some love the same clinic. It depends on what our expectations, requirements, conditional rules, ethics and core beliefs are, as you also pointed some out. So, one has to listen to their own gut and make up their own mind on basis of the information they have and choose to believe. And oh, boy, it is not an easy task to do!     

Hopeandpray- Have you tried to call them? Could you perhaps get the personal cell phone number for Anastasia from one of the ladies here and ******** her?? She did say to me that using ******** is a much quicker and more effective way of communicating for them. Just a thought…   

Hi to everyone else.


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## Bella2016

Ab55- Hope you are still     in your happiness.  

Denmommy- Hope you are ok.   

Stilltrying- Thinking of you and fingers and toes are cx!!


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi everyone!!

Just a quick message , we got our ultrasound report and everything looks great for our growing embryo! They've said it's at 6.5 weeks, although I counted 4.5 weeks. I guess they add the 2 weeks on .

Anyway we don't know the date of the 12 week scan yet, they said they'll know at the end of March. Looks likely to be last week of April, and I'm going to try and be there.

This was a frozen embryos transfer, where our fresh one failed- just thought I would add that in there 

S xx


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## Bella2016

S-    Another  is done! 
As I remember, in case of a BFP, pregnancy is calculated from the day of EC, as that would be around the time of natural ovulation/conception. 
Here is an IVF pregnancy calculator, which some of you may find useful. http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/index.php?ac=ivf


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## BlueCloud

Oh lovely news!!! Massive congratulations xxxx so happy for you! 

I will post in detail later. The phone connection is poor on my way from work.


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## ab55

S.
Just calculate 2 weeks before ET date, Bella is right, in "normal" pregnancies they take the EC date as day1. In IVF just go back 14 days and then calculate 40 weeks to go. If I am correct you should be on 8Nov as we should be for the 6th. X


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## BlueCloud

I think the pregnancy is calculated from day 1 of previous cycle. So day 1 of SM be 2-4 weeks before the embryo transfer depending on protocols.


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## Denmommy

Hi friends! I’ll start with my news today. With certain delay, we finally got our report from clinic, 16 weeks pregnancy scan. Everything’s fine, our pea is growing   . We’ve got the images and videos of our baby but no news as to baby’s gender yet. We’ve tried to check baby’s nub theory as Bluecloud recommended but we didn’t see any distinct nub so it was hard to guess. my DH looked very attentively and he thinks it’s a boy. Btw, surro also said she feels it’s a boy. We’ll see  

Lotus123, thanks for dropping a line. I can’t even guess how it feels now but still you need to take care about yourself and your dh. I hope they will inform you on your second attempt soon. 

Lisanna, so you’re starting also with biotex soon. Last week of march is approaching. Great to hear that your agency is very helpful. 

Michelle, thanks for update and fingers crossed on your beta test for Monday. So many bfns recently unfortunately so I hope so much you’ll break this chain . we all are waiting for good news from you. 

Have sweet evening everyone xxx


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## Mummytwins

Stilltrying congrats! I am supper happy for you   You deserve the happiness after what you've been through. We all do, and I pray it comes to each and every one of us. Positive vibes to all


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Thank you everyone. We have about 6 weeks to go until the 12 week scan, and I think that if we can get that far, we might be ok. DH is still expecting something to go wrong 😱!!! He can't understand how it's even working now.

It's strange waking up this morning, knowing that somewhere out there is a woman carrying our baby. Weird but very nice  

S xx


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## BlueCloud

Congratulations Denmommy, 16 weeks is a significant milestone as you now enter well into the second trimester! The gender guessing is a fun game until 20 weeks scan. ;-)

Stilltryingandhoping, stay positive, you and your DH have been through a lot and this is your time...nothing will go wrong. 

Michelle, 4 days to go for you. 2WW is nerve racking I know. 

Lisanna and Lotus, good luck with your journey forward. 

I have received some potential dates for the next transfer. It will be done in May 1st week. I have started rolling a ball with Biotex as well in case this cycle fails. Biotex said they can start the programme in 1.5 months after signing the VIP contract. I don't what it means. Does it mean a cycle starts or they start in lining egg donor and surrogate after 1.5 months. I am so tired of waiting.


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Bluecloud

What that means is that they can take up to 1.5 months to confirm a surrogate for you, and the rest is down to her cycle. They will still need to synchronise her cycle with the egg/Embryo.
i know in the last webinar that's on their website they said economy is up to 3 months, standard is 2 months and VIP is 1 month. When we signed, we were told that economy anD standard wait times are exactly the same. Also, if you use an agency or representative, you seem to be bumped up the queue. It completely confused me, I only investigated because I was so annoyed that we were waiting so long and other people who had just had a negative were matched with surrogates immediately.

S xx


----------



## Lisanna

Hi Hi!
I see we have here a wonderful small community, or not small
Bella2016, regarding USA...oh, they only think about money and the prices are so high! We made 2 payments and there was no positive at all for two different surrogate mothers. It is a big mistake to think that USA is so good in medicine, the level is high, but not for such prices... the same level you can find in Ukraine for a really good price. As for the safety, I am traveling right now in Europe and I can tell that I felt more safe in Ukraine, than in here, the situation in not comfortable, I liked it in Kiev so much, people are nice and no danger at all. When you see so many people in office to sign a contract, all the doubts go away. By the way, we have already talked with our surrogate on Skype!! so exited! that was organized by PSCC and we have our procedure set for March 29. Now we are in NL and tomorrow home, few weeks to wait and back to Ukraine for my hubby. Lots of vitamines, rest and no alcohol for him. 
Anyway I recommend you Ukraine for surrogate program, lots of luck!


----------



## Lisanna

Denmommy, yep, that's my clinic, but communication and organizational part is with Perfect Surrogacy CC team, my friends have recommended this place. Hoping for a positive in April!


----------



## ab55

Wow Lisanna congratulations! You were fast!  
When I was in Kiev, Anna told me I could meet our SM if I wanted, I think it was before my egg retrieval, but I declined. I really did not have the courage to see her, get to like her because she is willing to carry our baby and then to be disappointed. Well done from you! And hope to see a BFP with your 1st try. X


----------



## Bella2016

Denmommy- Congrats on the 16 week scan. Cant believe that you guys are almost half way through... time flies by so quickly! 

Bluecloud- All the best for the next transfer in May. Hopefully, it will be a successful cycle and you will not need to go to BTC afterwards!

Lisanna- Thank you for explaining about surrogacy in the US. It make sense. It is good to hear that you had a good experience of Kiev. What do you mean "I can tell that I felt more safe in Ukraine, than in here, the situation in not comfortable". Where are you based? Sorry, you probably said it before, I must have missed it. How wonderful that you have already talked to your SM! Are you using OE or DE, if you don't mind me asking?  Good luck with your cycle. Make sure you hubby also ejaculates often (every 2-3 days)- it is very good for preventing sperm DNA fragmentation. Thanks for your feedback. Would you also recommend BSCC? I know Ab55 does.  
Bxx


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi everyone!
I hope everyone's had a good weekend and positive about their baby journey. 

Michellemichelle 
Good luck tomorrow. Let us know how it goes, I really hope it's all positive  

Lisanne
Sorry you've had a negative experience of USA. I think that a lot of fertility treatment also comes down to luck. If you got very lucky and were successful, you may have a different opinion of the treatments there. I do agree, it's very expensive. Kiev is modern and as safe as a lot of places, including Europe. I didn't see anything that worried me there, but it's be same as anywhere, you have to use common sense. And it's great that you can talk to your surrogate if  you wish. wishing you the best for your attempts at BTC! 

Sxx


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## michellemichelle

it's positive! 
the manager girl said there is a possibility of twins!!!!!!! 
I. can't. believe!!!! 
PS 
HCG is 1045! already.


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Oh wow Michelle, congratulations!!! Wishing you the best for the scan in 2 weeks time!

S xx


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## minerva71

michellemichelle, Stilltryingandhoping,
I'm so happy to read about your positives!Congrats!!! Now you are waiting for their 6 week and 12th week scans, right? Michelle, such a high hcg! I had 278 and I'm pregnant with twins. maybe there are more sweet peas? 
Fingers crossed for your surrogate mothers'healthy pregnancies. 
P.S. I thought fresh transfer usually gives better results in comparison to frozen one. so you used embies frozen after the first attempt?


----------



## lotus123

Hello everyone!!

michellemichelle, congratulations!!! Super news!!! Positive result from the first attempt!!! Have you used DE? Your doctor name was Elena or anther one?
Stilltryingandhoping and Denmommy, congratulation with good scan!!! 
Michellemichelle, good luck for tommorrow!!!  

I still waiting and don't know any news from my clinic. Interesting how many months I should wait for the second attempt with our frozen embryos?
And I still can't be very positive   My story with my pregnancy + negative result + waiting ... kills me slowly.. However I try to stay positive....


----------



## ab55

Michele, 1 million times CONGRATULATIONS! I am so happy for you. One or 2 babies, the only important thing is that they are healthy! 
Lotus, keep strong, I know waiting kills you little by little. Recently I was talking to my husband that I don't think I would be able to go through this again and again. But think only about your baby to hold in your arms and to love. And go on! Lots of love, xxx


----------



## michellemichelle

Thank you everyone!! I am very happy and can't contain my feels. 
Yes, it was DE surrogacy or it is... do not know how to put it up honestly.. and my doctor was Valeriya (I think..)
well, yeah, in two weeks we are receiving our 6 weeks scan with high hopes for it actually to be twins! 
@Lotus oh I am so sorry you have to wait for so long, I really wish you the best and I am praying for the best!  
@minerva1 thank you a lot! oh, you think so well, that should be a sign of twins for sure haha


----------



## lotus123

michellemichelle, Thank you for support!
I have the same doctor 
Do you know the age of your SM? How many embryos and what quality were transfered? Do you know?

Yesturday I received information from my manager - ET will be aprox. at the end of April, we need to wait because the prioryto to SM is to VIP couples ... but it's ok, no so long.. the main is the result


----------



## Denmommy

Michelle, so happy to know about your positive beta!     SO POSITIVE – your number is really HIGH. And it seems you really want twins – much chances for your dream to come true. Still keeping everything crossed for you. yes, please tell how old is your surro mom? It seems you transferred 3 embryos, if I’m not mistaken. Right?


----------



## Denmommy

Ab55, I agree with you that meeting surrogate at such early stage of the process may be a bit stressful, both for you and for her. Even if your manager provides you with such opportunity. In our case, we were told that 12 weeks is the soonest we can meet her. And we agreed. Hopefully, it worked from this very first try and our first meeting on the 12th week was even more emotional than it could be before or immediately after ET. But this is our individual decision and may depend of course


----------



## Denmommy

Lotus, thanks for updating and I’m sorry they make you wait. In any case, end of April is just a month to wait. Accumulate patience and good luck – that’s all you need now


----------



## michellemichelle

@lotus123
I think that I have already answered this question earlier but ok
they have transferred 3 embryos (I was also asking whether it is a 100 percent guarantee of a BFP or not) 
I was told that all of them were of AA+ quality.. I suppose it is because that was egg donation bc donors are healthy and young and they produce good quality eggs.. I think that's why the embies are that good 
Good luck!!! xx
@Denmommy well, yeah, I was surprised as well.. there's a chance that all 3 oof the embies stuck.. but we cannot be sure! I just hope for twins..  
She's 34 yo I believe


----------



## lotus123

michellemichelle, thank you for your answers and for my so many questions one more time... 
AA - is the best, such had also our Denmommy ...and positive result as well 
Denmommy, thatnk you for your support!!!


----------



## BlueCloud

Wow what a lovely news! Massive congratulations Michelle.


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## hopeandpray

More positive baby news on this forum. Makes me feel positive for the future. 
Congratulations Michelle xx


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## Bella2016

How wonderful news Michelle! Congratulations! Indeed, all these success stories are very inspiring!!


----------



## hopeandpray

Evening all, 

I have just watched a one hour webinar with BTC. I know a few of us had similar questions and some these were answered so I thought I would share what I have learned.

TIMES BETWEEN CYCLES - The waiting time in-between cycles is dependant on the contract
Economy - up to 3 months
Standard - up to 2 months
VIP - Up to 6 weeks.

ACCOMODATION - The first 2 visits are pretty similar for all packages and are rooms within a hotel. However for the 3 rd visit when we collect the baby and stay for a prolonged time this varies between contracts

Economy - living accommodation in a "Shared villa"
Standard - a high standard hotel room
VIP - Apartment with housekeeper.

Also yesterday I tried to book flights for next week £470 for 2 returns , I thought this was reasonable. I got side tracked, I have gone to book them tonight and they are now £680!! Nearly £200 more expensive 24 hours later. Lesson learned I will be more organised in future. 

x


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi everyone 

Wow so many posts! 

Hopeandpray
Yes this is what they say in the newest webinar when I signed up in September, some of the things told to me were different. I think they change and the business changes, so always get agreement in writing I think, to be sure they will honour it. 
Also about your flights, try to clear your cookies and see if it makes a difference. If not,then they have gone up 😬 From Manchester, I can usually find return flights for £250 ish even with a few days notice. It depends on layover times etc. 

Lotus123 
Don't lose hope, I know the waiting is awful. But you know that in a month they will try again  I will pray it works for you this next time! 

Minerva 
Yes we are waiting for 12 week scan. I hope the pregnancy makes it that far, we are surprised it's worked with my eggs this long(we've never had any success with our own embryos before). 
S xx


----------



## Mummytwins

Wao, so many positives! BTC is rocking with baby news!!!

Michelle, big congrats.

Lotus, I am sincerely hoping and praying that your next transfer yields a positive result.

Stilltrying, stay positive. They've already crossed a milestone, so just believe that it can only get better, and better, and better.

We are still in our early stage. We have just been matched with an ED and a SM. ED just gone on BC pills so hopefully stimulation should take place sometime next month.

Best wishes to everyone


----------



## Bella2016

Thanks for the useful info hopeandpray. Ouch! Why are flights sooo expensive to Ukraine? Good luck with you appt next week! Do you know which package you will sign up for?   

Hope & Pray- Good news re being matched with a DE. Did you choose her? Good luck with starting the cycle, wishing you all the best!!


----------



## Mummytwins

Bella - yes for ED they asked us to choose 3 potential ones from their database. Of course we chose purely based on looks  They then screened them and the doctor recommended the one that best matched our genetics and also who had the highest AMH and ovarian reserve. But SM we didn't choose because these are matched purely based on medical assessments, and looks don't matter in this case. They sent us her picture though. She looks lovely and she is 35 years.


----------



## Bella2016

That all sounds good, H&P. Please keep us informed and hoping to hear good news from you soon!!


----------



## TXHope

Hello Everyone,

This is my first post to the forum. After 4 miscarriages following the  birth of my son (when I was 40) - we've decided to pursue ed/surrogacy in Ukraine.

I really want a sibling for my son and Ukraine is affordable and inspires medical confidence. After researching several clinics, my husband visited La Vita Nova a couple of weeks ago. I was reassured by Hope4Spring's posts. My husband felt good about his visit and the clinic. He thought they were very professional and trustworthy. He was humiliated by how the women in the medical clinic declared at the the top of their lungs, SPERMOOOOGRAM to the entire lobby of patients when reviewing my husband's paperwork. Then would hand off the order to the next worker who repeated...Ahhhh...SPERMOOOOOOGRAM of course with a thick Russian/Ukranian accent. He's so funny. He says this went on for a while so they made sure that even the woman in the far back corner could hear. Medical privacy is for wimps apparently.

I still have concerns about the safety of our family traveling and spending three weeks in Kharkiv though with recent developments in Balakliya.  Maybe I'm being overly cautious? I'm ready to proceed though based on my husband's experience. Doesn't mean I'm not nervous though. 

Best wishes to everyone on your journey to complete your family,

TXHope


----------



## hopeandpray

Hi TXHope,

I'm no longer going with LVN however when I was in communication with the clinic I also had concerns about staying in Kharkov for the 3-4 months it takes to obtain passports. LVN were understanding about our concerns and told us that we would only need to stay for 10-12 days until we had all the paperwork we needed. After this they were happy to provide accommodation in Kiev. 
I think it's seen as safe to travel and stay in Kharkov but if you feel uncomfortable then discuss this with them 

Good Luck


----------



## hopeandpray

❤💐❤💐❤💐❤💐❤💐❤💐❤💐❤💐
Thoughts to all who find today a struggle for whatever reason


----------



## Bella2016

And right back at you, hopeandpray. ❤💐❤💐A notification of your message came through just when I was complaining to DH about noone understanding the emotional struggle we are going through...   I hope you are ok. Bx


----------



## Mummytwins

HopeandPray, like minds. Which is why I love this forum and the people on here xx. I usually go to church every Sunday but I decided to give it a miss today for obvious reasons! Hoping that next year would be a better year for all of us here 😁


----------



## hopeandpray

Hi B and H&P

Yes let's hope next year will be different for all of us. I find Mother's Day hard. I'm ok thanks  B feeling anxious about my trip to BTC next week and have a list of questions the length of my arm. I'm hoping after my visit I will relax a little. 
Hope you are all being kind to yourselves today. 
X


----------



## Bella2016

hopeandpray- I would also have a long list of questions to ask! It's better to ask everything now then later. And as S said before, do make sure that you ask them if they can put everything they say into writing or include them in the contract. I would probably record the meeting on my phone. But I might just be overly cautious. 
Good luck and let us know how you get on! x

H&P- I hope so, too, we would all deserve it.   Hope you are having a peaceful Sunday. x


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi everyone
Hope everyone got through mothersday ok. Me and hubbie enjoyed the sunshine yesterday, luckily It was beautiful weather. I know that day gets to some people, and it used to get to me too . But it all kind of changed when I decided to use it as a focus point for the future. I'm completely determined to celebrate Mother's Day one day with my own child! 

Hopeandpray
Good luck with your visit next week. Don't worry about how many questions you have, I asked a lot too . But please do ask for some of the answers in writing, maybe email them over and get the clinic to reply. We had lots of questions, and they got answered on the day, but now things are completely different. It's not a massive issue for us luckily. Please share what you find out. One thing that they did say to me about vaccinations for a baby(if this will be one of your questions) is that you can find a doctor to have the vaccinations done. I'm getting together a list of doctors who deal mainly with foreign clients and their babies and do things like the vaccinations for overseas schedules. I'll be visiting them before our baby is born, so I'm happy to share information with anyone who needs it. It sounds awful, but I don't want to rely on the clinic to recommend someone , I would rather be prepared myself. The other things that I will be finding for myself is a nanny/babysitter. We chose the economy package so it isn't included for us. The clinics babysitters are around €50 for a day- I can't remember if that was for 4 hours or 8 hours.

I hope everyone is well. 
S xx


----------



## lotus123

Hi to everyone!

In my country Mother's day is in May  
My sun always congratulate me.
So wishing to all of us - to celebrate Mother's Day with our own child/children!!!

I've just received news from my manager - they found SM for me. She is 30 years old (last was 37, so I asked to try to find younger for the next attempt). So they will start to prepere her.. 
So I think maybe at the end of April thee will do ET.


----------



## ab55

Wow, that is good Lotus, I am glad for you! Hopefully this time will be the lucky try 
We had our 8 weeks ultrasound today and all was good. I was very released and happy, could not really relax the last days. I look forward to the 12 weeks scan, in 1 month time. I already booked tickets, so...
Lots of luck to everybody! Xx


----------



## lotus123

ab55, thank you for support. Congratulations with good results!!! So...after 4 weeks you will see your SM and  babies


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Ab55
That's great news about the scan being good. After 4 weeks, it will be a big milestone  

Lotus123 
That's fantastic! I really pray that it is your time to have some good news. This one month will go fast, just stay busy to distract yourself  

Sxx


----------



## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping, thank you dear!


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## michellemichelle

@lotus123
wow great! so, you are starting it again! I hope this is your lucky time too, praying for your surrogate mother to fall pregnant from the first try! I am sure that the clinic will do its best! 
@ab55 congrats on your 8 weeks! time flies! Good luck xx

PS I am almost at 6 weeks point. We're so impatient this time, 2ww wasn't as hard as this... 

Hope everyone else feels great!


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## ab55

Thank you everybody!

@michele, when is your scan? Good luck to you and everybody else! I had same thing, first 2 weeks were ok, but after pg confirmation I got very impatient.


----------



## michellemichelle

ab55 said:


> Thank you everybody!
> 
> @michele, when is your scan? Good luck to you and everybody else! I had same thing, first 2 weeks were ok, but after pg confirmation I got very impatient.


It's taking place on Monday! 
I am both excited and nervous
Like this is my permanent state of being lol
Yes, I understand that, I know that this feel is going to fade with time but for now everything seems to move slower than ever and I do not know what I am going to do these 3 days. till it is our scan


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Michellemichelle 

I know what you mean, the waiting is so tricky. I always try to keep busy but it's there, at the back of my mind. I remember that in the day if the scan, I literally couldn't sit still. I'm feeling a bit like that now too, with the wait for the 12 week scan! I hope you can enjoy the weekend and manage to find something to do that will keep you occupied and patient  

We got a date for our 12 week scan, it will be on April 25th! And then it will take a few more days for results from blood tests. 

With surrogacy, there is a lot of waiting 😊 

Sxx


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi everyone!

So it may be worth mentioning that since I won't be able to go to the clinic on our 12 week scan, one of the managers will Skype me so I can meet our surrogate! I didn't know they did this, but when I asked they said yes(I heard about it from another couple). 

S xx


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## hopeandpray

Good morning everyone, 

S - that's a really good idea, I wonder if its just for the scans or we can have a skype catch up when they attend the clinic for their monthly check. 

I had a successful trip to Kiev and signed the contracts. The first 16 hours were hard and at times I thought that I was not going to sign. But that changed when I met with Anastasia and attended the clinic. All my questions were answered and I felt well looked after. We met several couples who spoke English and all were happy with the treatment they had received. So far so good. 
If anybody is interested in the questions I asked and the answers given then please PM me. 

x


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## ab55

@michele, I pray all goes good this coming Monday. I figured out I can't relax during this journey, I am anxious all the time, so I do understand what you mean. I only hope 9 months will fly and then our babies will be home with us.
@stilltrying, I am happy you managed to arrange a Skype meeting, had no idea it is possible. As I already told you, our 12 weeks scan is only 1 day before yours and I already booked our tickets. It is so expensive that I did not feel like waiting to book, it will only be more.
@hopeandpray, congratulations for signing the contract and lots of success. Will you be using OE or DE? Can't remember...sorry. Will you share your questions and BTC replies with me on PM please? Many thanks beforehand.

And a lovely weekend to everybody! X


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## ruby100

Hi all 

Glad to read your journeys are all going along very well!  I am still considering using Biotexcom too in Ukraine but we are first still trying with our lovely UK surrogate.  

Take care xxx


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## lotus123

Good morning!

*hopeandpray*, congratulations on signing contract with Biotex! Which contract have you chosen?
*michellemichelle*, fingers crossed for today scan xxx
*Stilltryingandhoping*, skype - very good idea!!! Super!!!
I've read your diary that you want to breastfeed your baby your self. If you have any additional information from your doctor/clinic, please share this information. It's very useful information for me. Because I also would like to try breastfeed myself (but of course for me it VERY VERY early to speak... unfortunately). I've read a lot of information in Internet about it. In our country I can't ask anybody about it. But I decided, if we have one baby I'll try but without any medicines and hormones. I even now have some drops of milk (still after my last pregnancy) but I don't try to increase it because for me it's too early... I've asked this question to my doctor in Biotexcom, she told me that I'm not the firs with such questions but she doesn't believe that it's possible to realize without any medicines and hormones.


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Lotus123 

I will do. I've got an appointment on Thursday with my doctor. She may refer me to a lactation specialist, in which case it might be a while before I find any further information. But I will share when I have something. I do know that it is possible to induce lactation with massage and pumping, especially if you already have a little there already. But you may get more milk production if you do it with hormones. 

Sxx


----------



## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping, thank you! Theory I know. Now I'm interested in practise and how the clinic with SM will cooperate or not...
I have some experience how to breastfeed baby (longer that a year) and how to increase milk after baby Birth without applying to the breast... and I hope that I will have experience of breastfeeding baby who will be born from another woman.
But... We still not "pregnant"..so for me it tooooo early to plat all of it... But I hope...


----------



## michellemichelle

Hi everyone!
I am waiting for the message from my manager I suppose she's going to update us really soon, right?
Well, I am waiting and hoping for great news 
Fingers crossed


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## ab55

Lots of luck dear Michele. Send her an email or a text message that she does not leave it for tomorrow.   with you xxx


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Michellemichelle 

I hope you got your results yesterday and the clinic didn't keep you waiting. Thinking of you. 

S xx


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## michellemichelle

thank you guys! sorry I haven't been posting these days because my sister and her family had come to visit us and she stayed with us for 3 days and well I was so happy to tell them and you now that we are "pregnant" with twins!!!
I cannot even!!!
I am so happy now! Guys! I can't believe this and I cannot even express my feelings! 
How to cope with something as overwhelming as this?? 

PS oh no, biotex did not failed to send me the results on the day they have promised but the fault is on me that I did not have the time to post here any further info

PS How are you doing?
xx


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## ab55

CONGRATULATIONS Michele! This is a beautiful time to enjoy and just be happy.
Lots of lovexxx


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Michelle that's fantastic news! Congratulations


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## michellemichelle

Thank you ab55 and stilltryingandhoping for such warm words. I am very happy for your replies  
It is set to be on 15 of May, the 12 weeks scan and I have started the countdown, been crossing the days till it is may. And I have noticed this thing that time has been flying so quickly like it was the 6 week and soon it is going to be our first meeting with the surrogate mother. Am I the only one who really wants to see her belly and speak to it? I hope that I am not. Haha I am so desperate to finally meet my babies. I do not know who they are and won’t know it till it is 17 week or even until the end of the pregnancy. But I am sure that it is ok to not know the gender and maybe it is even better to wait till you know it for sure 
PS How all of you are doing? 
I hope that everyone's been doing fine these days.
xx


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## ab55

Hi Michele,
I believe this kind of excitement is more than normal in our situation. I keep on reminding myself that this is an awkward situation for our SM's as well, they also carry our baby/ies without knowing who are the parents or where will they be brought up or how. I also look forward to our 12 weeks scan in 2 weeks time. For us, these weeks take an eternity. I don't know if she already has a belly, could be, especially with twins. We decided to ask for the gender to know what to prepare but all I wish is that the babies are healthy and born on term. It does not really make any difference the gender. I know my husband would like 2 girls, but for myself, after years of waiting it really does not matter anymore. 
We prepare to take a few days off for Easter and rest bit.
Lots of lovexxx


----------



## michellemichelle

Hello ab55
I am not sure our surrogate has a belly yet but I've been dreaming of it haha well it must be bizarre to you... 
I send you all of my positive emotions so your us scan goes well! that means that you are going to see your surrogate mother in 2 weeks? aren't you nervous?  
Oh we also want to have some family time!
xx
lots of luck!


----------



## ab55

Hi Michelle,
Actually I was meaning if they will have a belly at 12 weeks. I read it can show as early as 10 weeks and I guess with twins it's even more obvious but I assume I have to wait and see. Moreover I have no idea how she looked like before pg so it's difficult. Yes, I am quite nervous to meet her and especially to see the babies. We'll be there for one day only, but enough to have the scan and get to know each other a bit. Happily I did not dream anything so far, haha. I had lots of nightmares when we were with the previous clinic and most of them after they told us our SM "miscarried". They left me with some trust problems with all the lies they told us and I am still reluctant to believe all goes good this time. Thank you so much for all the good wishes and wish you same mid May.
Xxx


----------



## michellemichelle

Everything will be good! Believe me! It is bad that you had some issues with your previous clinic but if now you are almost at a 12 weeks point, I am sure that everything is going to be fine! Do not think negative, stay positive and think only about good things! It is important. 
Oh at 12 weeks, I think that maybe it will be more pronounced 
the best of luck hun


----------



## ab55

Many thanks dear Michele, I do whatever I can to stay positive, the waiting followed by another waiting does not help much. I try to visualise the babies growing and I believe it will become more real after 12 weeks scan. In fact we never got a positive so this is a whole new experience. But a good one  
Lots of luck to you as well. xxx


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## BlueCloud

Massive congratulations michellemichelle!!


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## lotus123

Hello to everyone!

michellemichelle, super news!!! Congratulations!!!! So the next step is 12 week scan... fingers crossed.

Finally I have news as well - our second ET will be on 19th April. So I hope that at least 3 embryos will come through defrosting successfully and finally we will receive positive result! 
I can't imagine that it can be negative one more time but I realize that we have not more that 50% success probability....

I've received some news from my new friends from my clinic (from Tunisia and Romania) - their SM had 2 and 3 babies pregnancy, but now both pairs have only single..but still have...
Not so positive news...


----------



## ab55

@Lotus, great they scheduled the next ET.   you get a positive this time!
What do you mean the SM of your friends had 2 and 3 babies pg and now only 1? They lost 1 or 2 babies? How far into their pregnancies are their SM?
Xxx


----------



## ab55

Thank you for your reply Lotus. That is sad! We are same gestational age, 10 weeks yesterday, so this worries me a lot. I just hope all is good as long as we have no news at all.


----------



## lotus123

Yes, sometimes no news - it's very good!!!
So good luck to all of us!!!!!!!!


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi everyone

I went to the doctor last Thursday and asked about breastfeeding. She hasn't come across this situation before and didn't know if there is anyone she can refer me to, so I am still waiting to find out. 

Lotus123 
That's great news! I will have my fingers crossed for you, hopefully this is the one that works! 
Ah I have heard that many pregnancies with multiples end up being single pregnancies. Multi pregnancies carry a higher risk to the mother and babies, and sometimes the body simply gets rid of an embryo because it is too much stress on the body. It's very natural, although it can be disappointing. It doesn't always happen though, so all of you with twin pregnancies shouldn't worry....although it's difficult. 

We have our 12 week scan in exactly 2 weeks time! Time is moving very slowly as we wait for it, im particularly nervous about the blood test results to check for anomalies with the embryo. 

How is everyone holding up? Waiting can be so tough! 

Sxx


----------



## BlueCloud

Stilltryingandhoping, 

You try contacting a doctor India if you know any. There are a lot of Ayurveda and homeopathic medication available to help with breastfeeding. Good luck with your 12 weeks scan. 

Pound situation is really worrying me as well. We have already spend so much without getting a baby in hand. My husband and I have been doing two jobs since a long time to gather funds. I should have gone with Biotex in first place. If we get a negative result this time, we will swiftly moving to Bio. We have booked an appointment on 29.05 to see Anastasia. She doesn't need me to come as we are doing a donor egg. She said I can sign the contract and send them with my husband. This will save us some money. 

Lotus, good to know you have a date for transfer. 

ab55, good luck with your scan too.


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Bluecloud 

Unfortunately I don't know any doctors from India. I would prefer to speak to someone here to be honest as I can go in and see them. At the moment I just want to speak to someone to look at the different lactation protocols and decide which one will be right for me...if any. I'm quite reluctant to go back into hormones, after the toll they have taken on my body these last 2 years. We shall see what happens!

S xx


----------



## ttc_adventure

Hi Stilltryingandhoping,

Not sure if this is any help but I know a woman who has just started on this. Her baby is due in 6 weeks so she's just started - https://www.asklenore.info/breastfeeding/induced_lactation/regular_protocol.shtml

E xx


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi ttc_adventure

That's the exact website I have been reading today! I just want to make sur wim not self prescribing, I have to go through a healthcare professional so they can do all my health checks and prescribe the drugs. But yes, I read about the different protocols and ways to do it. 

S xx


----------



## lotus123

Good morning!

Hi ttc_adventure, thank you for link. This is very useful for me as well, however I'd like to try breastfeeding without any medicine... 
BlueCloud, thank you! Good luck to you as well - your 2nd attempt also will be soon!!! 
Stilltryingandhoping, for your lovely meeting on the 12 weeks moment is already less than 2 weeks   It's amazing!!!!

Just for information, Biotexcom will be closed on Public holidays from 28th April till 9th May. So our 2ww will be 3ww at least...


----------



## michellemichelle

Hello everyone.
It’s been a few days since I’ve visited the forum. I am immensely thankful for all of your congratulations comments. I am incredibly touched by it. Thank you again! 
Lotus123, great news! Wishing you nothing but luck! I am sure that it’ll be positive, it just cannot be the other way! Please, find strength and think positive, do not imagine bad things when they are far away from actually happening. 
Well, this is still great news that they have kids. and that the programs were successful. 
PS Girls, have any of you been reading some books about surrogacy babies? I mean, I have come across this thought yesterday and now I think about whether I really know what my life is going to be like after the program ends… sorry if it sounds stupid to you…


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi everyone! 

There was a bit of drama yesterday, that some of you may have experienced first hand! I've got a new blog post about it, and don't want to say more than that on here, so feel free to have a read 

Www.oursurrogacyblog.wordpress.com

Lotus123 
Read the link that TTC sent, there's even information about inducing lactation without medicine. And yes, less than 2 weeks left now!! I'm excited  

S xx


----------



## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping, I so unobservant, so I've read only one protocol and haven't noticed that they are mach more then one!!! Thank you!!!
I've read your new post in diary 3 times!!! Hmm...I even can't comment it... and of course I don't want to believe to this information... Bu t still... I'll try to check it thought my sources... may be I'll have something to add.... Thank you for sharing with such useful information!!!
michellemichelle, thank you for supporting and positive words!


----------



## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping, I've asked to my manager about this information - she answered that everything is ok with clinic and it/she works in normal mode, It's desinformation from competitors.... I hope that it is so...


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Lotus123 

It was just a big panic over nothing, it was just funny afterwards because everyone panicked because they didn't know what was happening. But it's all fine


----------



## michellemichelle

@Stilltryingandhoping
I've read your post and I was sitting in shock for like 10 minutes straight. can't even imagine how you felt when you read the news... really....
I am messaging my manager asap too but I suppose as you have said there's nothing to worry about anymore? well..
and this is very strange that the clinic was excluded from the conferences as I remember people were liking Anastasia's speech and stuff.. well... I just hope that everything goes well with our programs. 

But how did that person find out about those rumors? O_O


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi MichelleMichelle 

As far as I'm aware, it really was a fuss about nothing. I don't even know if there's any merit to any of this. That's why, I've completely quoted what was said to me. TBH, if they can't be part of another conference, it doesn't really make a difference. If it's based on them being bad at communicating with clients, i already know that. But, yes it was a bit worrying yesterday. And today it's a little funny to look back in it, it's almost made me put things into perspective and now I'm not so nervous about our upcoming scan  

As we were told yesterday "No one panic please..." 

😂😂😂😂😂
Sxx


----------



## michellemichelle

lol
I see, well, I have sent a message via ******** to Lida and she replied me with the same “do not panic everything’s ok” thing.  
That’s all just a bit worrisome but it is great that you’re feeling fine right now! 
xx


----------



## Denmommy

Ladies, my apologies for being absent for too long.   Have I missed something? 
Is everything okay? Stilltryingandhoping, I have read your blog update but I am really confused, it is definitely fortunate that everything has come to an end but I feel like those rumors exist for a reason. And Michelle, what do you know about the conference? 
Hopefully, there is nothing to be worried about although it did surprise me a lot at first.


----------



## michellemichelle

Hi Denmommy!
There's nothing to be apologetic for.

 Edited by moderation team


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hey ladies

Whatever rumours were going around, TBH i know from my own experience (and I've been very open about it) that the customer service standards are not what we are used to here in the UK. But, if you go to the clinic knowing what to expect, it's not so bad. We are having good results so far, I've just been legally advised to get copies of all official documents from them.

DenMommy, please don't worry. Just make sure that you check in on your surrogate mother, maybe ask if you can Skype in on your next scan date. It should help ease your mind 

Sorry ladies, didn't mean to worry anyone. I kind of feel like I need to be completely open and share everything because so many people are afraid to do it. If it is genuinely stressing people out, and worrying them unnecceserily, I will ask that you please don't read my blog. Because the updates are not to worry anyone, it's to share an honest experience 

For anyone who is going to go to Kiev , I wrote a very informative article yesterday with links to an English speaking taxi company in Kiev, departments stores, a link to a guide to the metro system etc. It's the research I've done to help me when I go there for 4 months.

I hope everyone is well and has a great Easter weekend! 
S xx ,

 Edited by moderation team


----------



## michellemichelle

I understand the issue and I must admit that biotexcom has some other issues too. Like their hotels or apartments are far from perfect but as you said, if you know what to expect, you are not going to be disappointed but for the newcomers, it is kind of an unpleasant experience. 
And I have read your update about the survival tips and I must agree on that Ukrainians do look a bit unfriendly.


----------



## Dory10

Some comments have been edited for reasons explained many times before. If you have any concerns about a clinic or conference please contact them directly.

Dory
Surrogacy Board Moderator


----------



## Lisanna

Hi girls! Remember me? I am with Perfect Surrogacy Coordination Center, Anna, in BioTex, wanted to let you know that we have positive! Our surrogate feels great and it is her 2 surrogate pregnancy, we are really happy! We had transfer in the end of March. I will try to inform you about our pregnancy as much as I can, a little busy now. Just wanted to thank you all for letting me share my experience here with you and finally we are feeling it coming😀 thanks to Anna and the PSCC  team for making our hope a real thing and highly recommend them!


----------



## Lisanna

michellemichelle said:


> I understand the issue and I must admit that biotexcom has some other issues too. Like their hotels or apartments are far from perfect but as you said, if you know what to expect, you are not going to be disappointed but for the newcomers, it is kind of an unpleasant experience.
> And I have read your update about the survival tips and I must agree on that Ukrainians do look a bit unfriendly.


 totally untrue, sorry that you have such a view, but only you loose by such an approach.


----------



## ab55

Happy Easter everybody and lots of baby joy to all of us! Xxx


----------



## ab55

Congratulations Lisanna and a smooth pregnancy to you as well! X


----------



## michellemichelle

Happy Easter everyone!  
Lisanna, congrats! 
Sorry, but I did not really understand the issue with my commentary... Please, could you write me what I said wrong? because this is truly my feelings and you should not always expect things to be perfect and rather be grateful for receiving at least something. that's what infertility has taught me. If it is untrue and you completely disagree with me, I understand that, but I suppose that you should not feel sorry for me hawing such POV. 
I am sorry but this is a bit upsetting. 
PS are you also with biotex? because maybe you find their hotels a lot better than I do...


----------



## TXHope

Hello,

I'm wondering if anyone on the forum has had a positive experience/outcome using La Vita Nova agency in Kharkiv? The agency uses Intersono Clinic in Lviv.

Thanks in advance for any up to date (since 2013) information. 

Best regards,

TXHope


----------



## Denmommy

@Stilltryingandhoping  I believe that if the things are fine by now then it is definitely not a subject to be worried about. 
PS don't be apologetic! It is not your fault if some of us get scared and become nervous after reading your blog, you are not responsible for our proper reactions. 
Anyways have a nice day/week!

 Edited


----------



## michellemichelle

maybe writing a disclaimer will do?


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hey guys

How is everyone?

DenMommy yeah it should all Be settled. I haven't heard anything more so it was all nothing  a little funny looking back on it now. 

And I know what you mean about the blog. The whole point of it is, that it is uncensored and a true account of my experience. It's raw. I understand some people might not like reading it because if there's anything negative, they don't want to know...and that is completely fine. I'm sensitive to those people, which is why i think that anyone who feels like this should probably try to avoid it.for others, it's very helpful  It's not all doom and gloom though, we have our 12 week scan next week!!! So hopefully there will be a lovely entry next week!!
And the last article in there is a few survival tips about Kiev, which is some of the research I've done about Kiev and how I plan on making my 3-4 month stay there easier. 

Hope everyone is well! What's going on with everyone now? I guess it's all a big waiting game and everyone is waiting for more news.

Congratulations Lisanne!


----------



## Dory10

A gentle reminder that people's experiences of the same clinic will never be completely the same, please remain respectful of other people's comments and experiences and be mindful of your replies.

Thank you


----------



## lotus123

Hi!

We received information from the clinic...unfortunately not very good: yesturday were transferred 3 embryos but after defrosting their quality become more bed and their embryologist has done everything that he could to minimise damages....so this second attempt 95% would be negative  

So remains only one attempt....


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## michellemichelle

@lotus123 really sorry to hear that from you. I can only imagine how upset you are right now.... Wishing you the best and hopefully that one last attempt that's left will be your lucky one.. Sending you a virtual hug!
xx

@Stilltryingandhoping I think that neither you or readers of your blog should think that much about each other. I mean you're writing your personal diary basically about your own experience and it can't be written without you adding your opinion or judgements, and this is better to receive such updates, for me at least, just because it give you an insight of what's happening in the clinic, what other people think about the clinic. as the main reason why I am staying here is to share my own biotexcom journey with other women who've been there and know and understand what I am talking about. 

12 weeks scan next week! Congratulations! I am so happy for you! This is going to be your time, are you all in preps? 
BTW I think that you're doing an amazing job. writing down your tips about staying in Kiev. I find it very helpful. and I am sure others do too


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## Lacerta

Hello everyone,
It's been a while since my last visit here. Unfortunately, I didn't receive any advices last time, although I was pretty concerned about the things you were discussing. I've read the last few pages of the thread and Stilltryingandhoping's blog. 

Stilltryingandhoping, first of all congrats on your 12week scan!  
well, I'm really worried now. I know it wasn't your purpose, but it works this way. I still didn't receive any news from the clinic but I was told that the process of SM and donor matching takes about 2 months, so it's fine so far. I don't know Lida, I signed a contract with Anastasia and Yarina. Both of them seem to have no problems with communication as they answered all my questions. But now I'm confused about what's gonna be next. If you say that there are no English managers in that department, who works with clients? Only Lida? She doesn't reply on your messages or what is the reason for your reluctance to deal with her? you are going to stay in Kiev for 4 months? 

lotus123, I'm sorry for this discouraging forecast for you. As I understood it's not your first try but you still have 5%chance, believe in your embies. may I ask you how it happened that they were frozen? I was told that biotexcom deals with fresh embryos or did they do an exception? 

Lisanna, huge congrats on your positive result! I hope all of us will be as lucky as you one day.

michellemichelle, lovely news! Congrats on your twins! and less than in a month you'll see them again...so sweet.


----------



## lotus123

michellemichelle, how you cohsen your donor? What kind of information clinic had provided you? Did you see the photos?

Lacerta, thank you for support. Biotexcom always froze embryos if you have more than is necessary for one attempt. It's not exception. If your first fresh attempt will be negative and you have frozen embryos, so they use them, and only after that - for the 3rd attempt use fresh one more time... and if negative result as well - so you can continuous only with DE.


----------



## Lacerta

Lotus123, now I get it, thank you! I know nothing about surrogacy with own eggs, I mean I didn't ask anything about it because in my case it's not even an option. You've mentioned that the third attempt will be the last and I thought that their 'unlimited attempts' it's a myth but if it's about own eggs, then I'm ok with this. You don't want to do this with DE, right? I mean no one wants, but if it gives more chances for success?
Anyways, I hope you won't need the third attempt


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## ab55

Oh Lotus,
I am so very sorry for this situation. Please stay positive, in the end they transferred the 3 embryos so if they were completely damaged they could not even do the ET. I believe there is always hope and as long as the embryos are alive they can still implant.
Lots of


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Lotus123 

So sorry Hun, it's not going to be the news you  wanted to hear. Just go for it and hope for the best. And if not, then all you can do is keep trying.We had a frozen second transfer with our 2 remaining embryos. You know a few days before the 2ww was over, I had a breakdown with my husband and cried so much because I thought it would fail. The good thing about meeting lots of other clients from the clinic is to share information, but then the hard thing for me was that everyone else had already had a positive with either 1 baby or even twins! So I was so upset. Then it all changed when we got a positive. 

I'm so nervous for our 12 week scan and blood test results next week!!! I have to just hope it's ok, and wait.

Lacerta - I have had a few issues with lida in the past(all in my blog in past entries) so I have spoken to Anastasia and she is willing to let me deal with another manager when they hire anyone else. lida will still be the one doing everything for our case in the background, I just don't want to have to deal with her myself. She is actually very useful in BTC because she runs around and has a lot of knowledge. It's just her bedside manner that I found a little hard to swallow  lida is the one dealing with English clients, Yaryna deals with the egg donation. I will be staying for 3-4 months after our baby is born because it takes a long time to get a British passport. So I have to wait with the baby until we can go home.

S xx


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## michellemichelle

@Lacerta yes, I will  I feel very dreamy about this though 
@lotus123 but they have this donor's database with photos, videos and brief information on her past and general stuff like education and hobbies. plus I know that our donor was pregnant and had a child before. this is the kind of infos you usually get. but you can also ask your manager for more information.


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## Lacerta

Stilltryingandhoping, I can't even imagine your excitement about following scan. I haven't read the whole blog to be honest, so don't the details. You are right about Lida. She is kind of surrogacy manager, but she was absent and Yarina was replacing her. I didn't talk to her personally and have no messages from her so far. but I think she will contact me when they got any news for me, right? Aaw, I see. Thank you for so useful answers, I guess I should look through your blogposts because I feel I'm a total newbie
Good luck to you xx


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Lacerta 

Yes they will contact  you when they have information. Unfortunately, the main thing with surrogacy is a lot of waiting. So we have to just be patient and wait  not always easy!

I think the clinic is supposed to be closed towards the end of April and the beginning of May too for a holiday.

S xx


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## michellemichelle

@Stilltryingandhoping
will those holidays take 2 weeks or maybe more? 
I have to be there at least the day before 15 of May bc we're having 12 weeks scan and screening and we're going to meet our SM too. 
I am worried that it may influence the schedule and it'll be changed and stuff. I have some issues with waiting for the time we meet our SM and this is such an important moment for all of us...
you're right we have to be patient...


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi MichelleMichelle

I'm really not sure. I have read this because someone posted this earlier. If you are worried contact your coordinator and they can advise you properly.I know its difficult not to worry though! we have our 12 week scan next week and i am so nervous!

S xx


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## lotus123

Hello, to everybody!

ab55, thank you for your support!

michellemichelle, thank you for your reply! Photo of donors - this is good! Very good!

Stilltryingandhoping, good luck to you for soon meeting with your lovely baby and SM!!!! 
And of course thank you for your good supporting words! I know that some couples had even 8 attempts, but of course I don't want so a lot of attempts... And I hoped that I was and am healthy and had healthy 2 pregnancies..so I had a little more chance for positive result...but totally not, unfortunately!!!

For this attempt there is almost no hope...my manager even didn't send me agreement with SM and protocol of embryos... I think that nonetheless
they did such embryos transfer because they already had spent their money for this attempt (medicines for SM, defrosting and so on..)...

I still haven't decided if i will agree to move to DE after the 3rd negative attempt... I doubt if I could love this baby the same way as my own genetic baby...
Such baby will be not from my bump and moreover - without any genetic data from me... It's afore looks like adopting baby...but of course this way has 2 benefits: genetic data from husband and "receiving" baby in his/her early days... So I'm still thinking about all it..every day... 

I'm ready to be pelted with tomatoes


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## michellemichelle

@stilltryingandhoping
Good luck and all the best for you and your SM. I guess you'll be changing your name on the forum soon  

@lotus 
I have seen that biotex has their donor's database's example presented on their web-site. you can look it up.

PS have heard that Russia is going to ban surrogacy... wow..


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## lotus123

michellemichelle, thank you. I didn't know about it.

About Russia - I've read about in Russion Internet pages - This is only proposal of one Deputy of the Duma, so I'm sure that it shouldn't banned! May be only some legislation will be changed a little bit.


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Michelle and Lotus123 

Thank you for the good wishes. I had the Skype chat and met our surrogate mother this morning. It was so nice to meet her and she seems so lovely. The doctor had not done the scan yet so we have to wait for this report and any results. I don't know how long it takes for the blood test results,  but I guess it will take a few days.

I hope the clinic will give us the scan results by the end of today! I'm so nervous😱

S xx


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## BlueCloud

Good luck for testing Lotus...you never know this could be your time. 

Stilltrying, good luck with your 12 weeks scan this week. Let us know how your Skype meeting goes with your SM. 

We shall have our next transfer done on 10-12 May. If don't succeed this time, we will swiftly move to Bio. We have an appointment booked with Bio on 29/05. So tired of waiting!!!!


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## michellemichelle

Stilltryingandhoping said:


> Hi Michelle and Lotus123
> 
> Thank you for the good wishes. I had the Skype chat and met our surrogate mother this morning. It was so nice to meet her and she seems so lovely. The doctor had not done the scan yet so we have to wait for this report and any results. I don't know how long it takes for the blood test results, but I guess it will take a few days.
> 
> I hope the clinic will give us the scan results by the end of today! I'm so nervous&#128561;
> 
> S xx


That's amazing, I am happy for you to eventually meet your SM! Such an amazing day today 
I am pretty sure you will receive the results by the end of the day  
so Lida was there with you and your SM? 
We're with you
xx


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Michellemichelle 

Yes Lida was translating. she and the camera on the surrogate so it was just our surrogate mother I could see, but Lida was sat next to her and translating what I said and then back to me. It all went smoothly.

I'm still waiting for the scan results and getting really nervous now. I hope everything is ok. 

S xx


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## ab55

Hi Stilltrying,
The 12 weeks scan is quite extensive, like 2 pages. I saw it by my girlfriend so I assume they need some time to translate it.


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## Stilltryingandhoping

I've had a message from my manager saying that she is out of the office now for the rest of the day as she is the only English speaking manager at the moment. But she let me know that everything looked good with the scan, so I don't worry. She will send the report tomorrow. 

I am looking forward to receiving it. I already know the measurements , although I didn't understand what a "Nodal bone" is? Maybe she means nasal bone? The blood tests will take a few more days yet. 

So far so good. Still feeling cautious, but also excited .

Sxx


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## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping, congratulations with so super good news and your first meeting with your sm!!!
Yes, I think your manager mistake you... NASAL BONE. Doctors do it's measures to check on such illnesses as syndrome Doune and other...


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Thank you lotus123. I think we should egg our email with report tomorrow so I hope we get a video and images


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## BlueCloud

Awww how exciting Stilltryingandhoping. 

Lotus is right they check nuchal tube thickness and nasal bone for down syndrome possibility. I am sure everything will be fine and congratulations for entering second trimester. Major milestone!


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## lotus123

Hello!

Does anyone know: when clinic does frozen embryos transfer, after defrosting they rate them one more time with special protocol or not?
I've just received protocol from my manager and there is mentioned rates the same as were before frosting..but I know they they become worst.


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## ab55

Lotus,
I have no idea about this clinic's protocol for FET. I do know from my last FET that they told us most embryos are like 20% lower after thawing. And that as long as they are at least 50% they have a good chance to implant. So, if you had 100% good embryo, it should have been like 80% after thawing. There are of course cases when the frosties will not survive the thawing process.


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## hopeandpray

Great news S x Lida must be very busy. I emailed her Monday evening with questions but she is yet to answer. How long do you think is reasonable to reply to a non urgent email. We are at the start of the process so don't want to get impatient too soon 
Congrats again Stillhoping


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hopeandpray

Yeah they're crazy busy. So with my 12 week scan, lida had to just send me a viber message to let me know everything was ok. But it was Anastasia (the head of the English department) who had to help her yesterday because there was so much to do. She sent me a very quick video image of the scan,and a still picture. And late afternoon, someone else from the clinic sent me a written report. 

Be patient with them, I'm sure they will get back to you. If it's something urgent, maybe message them again. I remember at the beginning,for me, it would take a week more for none urgent questions. And I always had to write to her again. It's frustrating. But now that I've seen how busy they get,and how much they have to do there,it's started to make sense. 

I hope she answers you soon.
Sxx


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## HoneyBoo1

Hi ladies,

Apologies for intruding this thread. I am seeking for advice.

We had 2 fresh cycles and 2 FET's all bfn's. I feel so lost, but don't want to give up hope.

I have a consult booked with Dr. Gorgy in a 2 weeks. But the question spinning on my mind is "will it work?" 
I then came across this thread and maybe surrogacy is worth a try, but we would like to use my eggs.

And another thing is money. It is so expensive! And where to start and what to do.

Sorry for the rant, I have no one to ask for an advice.

S, I have read your blog. You are amazing! Congratulations on 12 week scan x

Any feedback would be much appreciated,

Thank you,
Honey x


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hey HoneyBoo

I know how you're feeling, I've been there! I was in the same dilemma. My crossroad was , do I go to Lister clinic or ARGC for further testing after all my IVF attempts gave us BFN's, or do I look at surrogacy. There's so many things to consider, including the expense. If I had chosen to carry in with IVF, I definitely couldn't have afforded the surrogacy. But there's serious emotional challenges with surrogacy too. 

Thank you for reading my blog  i hope it helps people in this situation. 

Inbox me, I would love to speak to you  

Sxx


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi everyone 

I have some very exciting news to share!

I spoke to BioTexCom yesterday on a Skype chat, after many emails back and forth on how they can improve service for customers. I have been particularly interested in what they can do to help British clients in terms of making passport applications easier and also things for Parental Order. I've finally had a breakthrough with them! 

So For British customers, the third payment will now be paid directly to the surrogate mother. This will help with parental order applications as courts like to see proof that the surrogate mother received money. 

In terms of communication, they are working on things a lot at the moment. The English department is very understaffed, but they are hopefully,hiring new assistants soon. They will aim to set a new agreed time of 2 working days for communication back to clients. It may take a little time to clear backlog.

I have asked Biotexcom to allow me to help, if it means they can change to make improvements. If anyone is interested in biotexcom, and has not already been in contact with them, I am able to help with all your questions. In exchange for me sending these customers over to the clinic, Biotexcom will be more agreeable to having regular Skype meetings with me to help change their processes, to improve things overall for clients.

It's in my best interest to get these changes put into place because I want my parental order and passport application process to go smoothly. And also, my husband and I have discussed,and we plan on signing another contract to have a second baby through Surrogacy  

Sxx


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## lotus123

Stilltryingandhoping,

Wau! So amazing information!!!
Super!
And when you are going to start of process of the second baby? Will you use DE or will try to stimulate you one more time again? I know that for the second agreement you can receive at least 2000 eur discount ;-) But if you will "work" with biotexcom in such way as you wrote so....it can be much more less, I think!


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## hopeandpray

Excellent news S. I'll be watching your progress for hints and tips. I heard from Ida yesterday. Surrogate "synchronising" so egg collection not till end of May/June. So some more waiting. I'm getting good at it. 
X


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Lotus123 

I don't know exactly when, but we would like to sign a second contract at some point within the first year of the first baby. It all completely depends if everything goes smoothly with things like health of the baby that we are expecting now. With these things, we can plan, but who knows how things will end up. Our intention is to do it soon afterwards. 

I haven't spoken to them about any discount or money, and I am not employed by the clinic. It's mutual cooperation. I've shared my experience right from the beginning with everyone. I'm sharing it with BioTexCom too so they can make things better for clients. I'm very pleased to say that they are making changes and taking things on board  and it will be a gradual process. I hope to be able to speak to people who are considering them, so I can help answer their questions and refer them to the clinic. This will help me have more bargaining power with the clinic, which helps everyone .

In a selfish way, I hate this mentality some people have of "surrogacy in Ukraine, NO WAY ", like it's a horrible country to do it in. BTC is a good clinic, they just need to improve on some things like communication. And I would rather help them so I know I can be proud that my baby is born from a clinic with a good reputation  

S xx


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi hopeandPray

Ah I know, it's endless waiting! I know how that feels! 

I have been waiting a lot this week. The 12 week scan was on Tuesday, I got messages from my manager in the afternoon saying that everything was exactly as it should be and she will send me the actual scan report then next day. This was ok because she sent me all the measurements in the message. The blood test resukts take 3 days so I got these on Friday. So far everything looks ok, and how it Should.

I'm still so shocked when I think that we have a baby growing out there in the world....I don't think I believe it yet  we have waited so long for this, after so much disappointment, that it seems unreal. 

S xx


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Morning everyone!

How is everybody doing? Has anybody got any updates?

I got my blood test results back at the end of last week and everything looks as it should , so my husband and I are happy. We said in the past that after the 12 week scan, if everything is ok, we will tell family. But now we
Think to wait another month, just to be cautious. maybe next month we will think the same thing again 😂

Our next scan is on May 25th. 

S xx


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## lotus123

Hi!

S., Super news!!! Congratulations!!! So now you can be more calm!!!! Yes, I agree tham maybe it's better to say your family after 16 weeks...

We still waiting.... may be tomorrow we will receive our final result of our second attempt...but may be on the next week... but tomorrow will be 2 weeks after transfer...


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## ab55

Lots of success Lotus! Hope they will not make you wait 1 week extra. Xx


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## lotus123

ab55, thank you!
Waiting is very difficult... but surrogacy can't be without it...


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## hopeandpray

No update from me - just the endless waiting to even get going but I'm hoping June will be the month it all falls in to place 

Lotus - I think we all know how awful the dreaded 2 week wait is. For me what always felt better was focusing on the next plan but it is still 2 weeks of nerves and apprehension. I hope you find out soon and fingers crossed it's positive. X

S - I know what you mean about waiting another month but the 12 week mark is normally a good indicator. Miscarriage after this point is rare. God knows I googled miscarriage rates enough during my very brief post ivf pregnancies. So I say celebrate, tell whoever you like and try and enjoy it.  You've waited your whole life to be in this position. Congratulations xx 

Honey - I think the decision to move on is one of the hardest to make. But after my last miscarriage I had to really think about what I was striving for. Was it a pregnancy or was it motherhood. Of course it was a bit of both but motherhood won. I wanted to be a mummy more than I wanted to be pregnant so we channelled all money and effort in to the path that was most likely to achieve this. And that's surrogacy. I didn't have it in me to go through more treatment , hand over more money and come away with nothing - again! But it's an individual thing and people reach that point at different times. Hope you find the right path for you soon xx 
Hope everybodies enjoying the sun , I'm not working today so I'm trying to make the most of it.


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Lotus123 
Good luck for the test result! I hope they tell you tomorrow 

Hopeandpray
You are so right. We should be celebrating...that hesitation is always there.
Maybe it always will be until we get to hold our baby and we know for sure, everything is ok. There have been way too many disappointments along the way. 

S xx


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## BlueCloud

Good luck lotus for the results. 

Stilltryingandhoping, glad to hear about the blood test results. One more tick in the box. I am in a very different position when it comes to telling family. I don't think my inlaws will ever understand. My parents and my best friend know about our journey and are very supporting. Our families are from south Asia and are very traditional.  ivf/surrogacy/egg donation are very difficult topics to talk about. My in-laws never knew how many cycles of IVF I have gone through so far. 

Hopeandpray, hope you get your cycle soon. Wait is the killer and I cant explain how I distract myself. I have become a half crazy already and i don't know how much it will take more to complete the family xx

There isn't a much of an update from us. We are still waiting for transfer to happen possibly next week. We have a plan B ready just in case its negative.


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi  blueCloud

I hear you! I'm Asian too, from a similar background. So we have the same issues as you. My in laws are a  very traditional Asian family so we won't be telling them about the surrogacy. But I will tell my immediate family and some close friends

S xx


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## lotus123

Hi!

I've received information from my manager that hcg test and appointment in clinic is going to be done only on the 12thMay (due to clinic holydays)...
So we need to wait 1.5 weeks more   

BlueCloud, good luck to you next week as well ;-)


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Lotus123 

Oh wow, it's a shame they can't do the blood tests during the holidays. I didn't think they would close altogether, I thought things like HCG tests would still be done. So sorry you have to wait longer


----------



## Maya2016

Hi,

I haven`t written anything for a long time although I read your posts every day. I really appreciate your success and I am looking forward to read good news.

Stilltrayingandhoping, I admire your efforts and struggle! I read with great pleasure your blog. I hope your cooperation with Biotex will give great results and will help the clinic to improve communication with its clients.

The reason I haven`t written anything is that I have nothing to brag about. Our first IVF attempt with Biotex finished on 30.03. with negative result. Now we are waiting Biotex to find a second surrogate mother for us. I have read that the waiting period for Standard package agreement is 2 months. More than one month has passed since our first negative result but we have no news. I received out of office message from Lida that the clinic is closed till  10 May but I don`t expect an answer before 15 May as Lotus123 has written that the first working day is 12 May.

Actually, I would like to ask you how you receive information about the age of the surrogate mother and about the embryos quality.
On the date of the embryo transfer to the surrogate mother we received a document named Oocyte and embryo culture stage, which contains 8 columns. There was information only in one column – Embryo transfer - Cryo bc(cryo). Have you received any other document from the clinic?

Lotus123, I really sympathize you, because we are in similar situation. At the beginning we have 11 blastocysts with excellent quality. For the first FET Biotex had defrosted 7 /received 3/ and now we have 4, but 2 of them have chromosomal abnormalities, so finally we have only 2 for second FET. I am a little bit disappointed what will happen with them after defrosting. I keep my fingers crossed for you and hope you will receive great news on 12 May!


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Maya

I'm so sorry to hear that your first transfer didn't work! You've probably know already, ours didn't work the first time either. Like you, I got that same report which didn't tell me the quality or grading of my embryos. It just told me how many cells had divided in each embryo,nothing more about quality. Our second transfer was a frozen transfer and that is the one that has come back positive for us. 

What I have learned is that whatever is meant to happen will happen. Despite this, we can't help but worry right? That's normal too. 

I know that the clinic don't carry on doing things like looking for surrogates during holidays. So the 2 months it can take to find a surrogate doesnt include the holidays. When they reopen, make sure you message you manager and put a little pressure on her to get you some answers on where they are up to. Unfortunately, I do know that the managers can't influence the medical team on picking a surrogate for you. The doctors do this, and the managers are not involved  

As for the age of the surrogate mother, I found this out because I had to ask for a copy of our joint agreement. This is an agreement that we signed when we signed contracts. The clinic then gets the surrogate to sign it on the transfer day. We need this as UK citizens because we have to present it to the courts for our parental order application. On this, the surrogates put their date of birth and their address. 

I hope you hear from the clinic soon after they open 

S xx


----------



## lotus123

Dear Maya,

So you are waiting the second attempt... I have economy agreement and we waited aprox 2 months from the first transfer (it was in February). The first day after their holidays is the 10th May (not the 12th). 

The age ( the date of birth) of SM is written in agreement with SM.

The grades of embryos I saw in ET transfer protocol in the last column.  But in last one (frozen) the grades were the same as before frosting but i know from my manager that their quality become more bad after defrosting...but in protocol no changes...only quantity 3 from 4.... so now we haven't any frozen embryos....

Did you do PGD of embryos? Why you know that they were abnormal? Who is your doctor? Do you use your eggs?

Stilltryingandhoping  experience gives my hope that our journal can be positive as well...hoping that for it we will need not more than 3 attempts....

Denmommy, how are you?


----------



## Maya2016

Dear Stilltryingandhoping, I have sent my questions to Lida during their holidays and I hope I will receive an answer soon. After our second transfer I will ask Lida for a copy of the joint agreement signed by the new SM. Thank you for this useful information! Waiting for good news from you on 25 May!

Dear Lotus123, the information about the grades of embryos is missing in my ET transfer protocol. I hope Lida will give me more information after holidays. We used donor eggs.

Yes, we have done PGD of embryos. I think 2 of my 4 embryos have chromosomal abnormalities because one of them has minus in 13th chromosome and the second has minus in 21st chromosome. The other two embryos have only plus in all three chromosomes /13th, 18th and 21st /.
I am not sure about the name of our doctor. During our first visit I think we have had meeting with Dr. Yulia Kotlik.

I`m sure our surrogacy journey will finish with success but for me it`s very difficult to wait because we have nearly 10 years IFV story.
Wish to all of you pleasant weekend!


----------



## lotus123

Maya2016, wau, 10 years?! I'm so sorry... I can't even imagine how it...
Hm... If you use DE why you do PGD? Due to not ideal cariotip of your HB? And it seems that it's very good for you if some of embryos are abnormal even with DE...
When we had our 1st attempt our manager sent me agreement and protocol with grades herself (i didn't ask her to do it)... only now after the second attempt I asked to sent me.. I don't know why she didn't send me ... due to busyness or forgetfulness or unlikeliness of positive result...
Some of my friend from this clinic received all this documents as well every time...  strange that not all receive them... because, if I right understand, this is not something special and secretly...


----------



## Maya2016

Hi Lotus123, it`s a long story – bad quality of my own eggs, immunological problems etc… 
Finally we got tired of making IFV attempts and hoping and decided on surrogacy.
I checked my agreement - PGD is included in the Standard agreement service. To be honest I`m happy they have done this PGD test.


----------



## lotus123

Maya2016, I believe that you are tired...after 10 (!!!) years ... because It's difficult for me even 2 attempts... So I really can't imagine how It is for so long period....
And you are really lucky that clinic has done PGD, because, even there is standart agreement, they don't do it to everybody... Maybe you are the first from my known people from this clinic whom they has done PGD.


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Maya

I went back and had a look at my embryo protocol from a December. It actually does have the embryo grading, it's just different from what I am used to in the UK. It has a column that says how many cells the embryo was and then has a l or ll next to it to signify the embryos grading as 1 or 2. So I can see that all 5 of our blastocyst embryos that the clinic choose to use were grade 1. We didn't have PGD as we have chosen economy package, but if we had chosen the standard we would have used the PGD. At my age (34) on average, around 55% of embryos at day 5 are still genetically bad. 

I hope that your manager gets back to you soon. Just keep in mind that when the clinic reopens, it will be extremely busy (more than normal due to holidays). 

Today we are at 13 +5 with the pregnancy. We still have 2 1/2 weeks until our next scan, and already I am impatient. Our first baby scan picture was very unclear and the baby had its hand covering the face as if it was shy ☺ and I am desperate to see our little bean. 

I feel like I am spending half my life waiting. So far, it has been 7 years for us trying to have a baby. Not 10 like Maya, but an eternity for me. I hope God rewards our patience  

S xx


----------



## lotus123

Interesting, you even have another grades than I...

This is our last protocol information (my protocol is in Ukranian):


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Lotus123 

Yes yours is very different. What happens is, the information from the medical team is sent to the English department. They translate it and then send it to us. So yours is the original that's very interesting. 

S xx


----------



## Mummytwins

Hi everyone
Sorry I haven't written for a while. It's because I didn't have much to update on. I've been following your stories though. Congrats to all those with successful results and good luck to all those in waiting.

Maya2016, would you mind telling me how long you waited for your pgd result to come baxk and how long after that that the embryos were transferred to your surrogate? We are considering pgd as well so we would like to know how long more this can add to the already excruciating waiting time! Thanks in advance!!


----------



## Maya2016

Hi Hope&Pray, I can`t tell how long usually takes PGD, because I received the protocol after our first negative result. Lida has sent it to me when I asked her how many embryos we have left.

Stilltryingandhoping, I can imagine how excited and impatient to see your little bean again you are. Do you have plans to go to Kiev this time or you will use Skype? I keep my fingers crossed to you! 

Lotus123, it was a long period full of hope and tears but now I hope all of us will soon embrace our long-awaited babies. 

Lida has written to me that she will ask the medical staff and come back with an answer after 10 May.


----------



## Mummytwins

Maya thank you for your response. I hope Lida comes back to you with encouraging message.


----------



## Maya2016

Hello,

I just received an email from Lida that the surrogate mother is ready for the transfer of embryos and the transfer is scheduled for tomorrow. 

I hope this time we will succeed and get the desired result.    

Lotus123, did you receive the test result from Biotex? I`m keeping my fingers crossed for you!


----------



## lotus123

Maya2016, wau!! So amazing news!!! Congratulations!!! Fingers crossed that this attempt will be positive!!!  

Our HCG test will be done on Friday... so I'm still waiting...


----------



## Maya2016

Thank you, Lotus123! 
I hope you will have high positive result after so much waiting!


----------



## michellemichelle

Hello everyone!
I know that it’s been a while since I have written anything on this forum, hopefully everyone’s doing great! 
Well, the 12 weeks scan is scheduled on Monday so we’re very busy with preparations. I have received a confirmation reply from my manager about my hotel and stuff, Lida seemed to be in a hurry too because her reply was really short although I guess we’re not the only ones bothering her asking to confirm different stuff. Although I am never sure about anything especially when it comes to such a serious thing as surrogacy. I wrote her back with more questions about our surrogate we’re now waiting for her email. I am just a bit nervous as it is 12 weeks, everyone knows how important it is for everyone… BTW her pregnancy is going well and her us pics are quite good I guess. There’s nothing to worry about but I cannot calm down you know. 
@stilltryingandhoping 
Wow, I am really surprised you did it! Like it is so easy to just sit there and complain but you decided to go further and change something! I am sure there are a lot of people who’d appreciate this! And it ia good to see that you are happier than previously (of course your BFP’s got something to do  with it but the proper communication with biotexcom’s made it even better it seems). 
@Maya oh wow! Great news! Fingers crossed x)


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Lotus123
I am desperately praying for you! I really hope you get a positive after waiting for so long 

Maya
Congratulations! Im praying this is your time too 

Michelle
Ah thats soooooe exciting! I hope all is well with the scan. They will do the blood test too and it takes 3 days for that to come back. So make sure you keep bugging Lida about that when the 3 days are up.And if you cant get anything from her, it may be worth messaging Yaryna.
Yes it is ok to complain, but i got too tired of doing that  I saw that the clinic really got results, and the only thing that had caused a bad experience for me was silly little things like communication issues, or the clinic not realising the things that were specially different for British IPs. So i had to do something about it. My blog has been getting a lot of attention, and the clinic have noticed it. Also, they know i am writing a book about my surrogacy experience also. So all of this meant that they would rather work to improve things and try to make clients happy, so their business can grow.

My husband and i are seriously considering using BioTexCom for a second baby after the first one, so i want things to be easy when as this pregnancy progresses,and also with the second  

Things did get better for me after we had a positive, but it wasn't just because we got a positive result. Its because i understood by that time, how the clinic works. The coordinators might be so busy that they don't reply to us, but i know over in Kiev, they are looking after the surrogates who are in the clinic, or helping parents who are trying to sort out documents for their babies. Its the medical teams who are finding the IPs the babies(The coordinators are not involved int his selection and cant speed it up). When we first signed with the clinic, it shocked me so much that our messages were ignored for days. Now i understand why they might be delayed in responding .

When they find new English coordinators, it will improve a lot i think. They had to get rid of the 2 assistants they had because when Lida came back to work after her maternity leave, she found out that they had done a lot of things that were incorrect. So they are no longer at BioTexCom. This means that Lida is on her own for now, and having to do everything. So i would expect delays in communication fro a little while atleast.

S xx


----------



## BlueCloud

Good luck for today Lotus! Praying for you! 

Maya congratulations for the transfer. Good luck for 2WW.


----------



## lotus123

Hi to everyone!

Yes, today is very important, emotional and difficult day for me.
Thank you all that you remember me!!!  

BlueCloud, how are you? Have already been done transfer of your lovely embryos? You are 2ww as well or still not?


----------



## lotus123

Just receive information that HCG is less than 1... however at last week manager wrote me that similar home pregnancy test showed 2 strips...


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Lotus123 
I'm so sorry, that's so disappointing. Home pregnancy tests are not always accurate, so it could have been a false positive. Or it could have been an early loss. 

I'm so sorry. Big hugs xxx


----------



## Maya2016

Lotus123, big hugs from me too.  
I`m very sorry for your negative result. It`s very difficult to believe.

I still haven`t received any information from Lida if my embryos have survived the defreezing and have been transfered to our new surrogate mother.


----------



## ab55

Oh Lotus, I am so so sorry! Xx


----------



## BlueCloud

I am so sorry to hear your update Lotus. It is very cruel. I hope you will gather your energy soon and be ready for trying again. Sending you Hugs xx

I am in 2WW.


----------



## ab55

Praying you get a BFP BlueCloud xxx


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Good luck Bluecloud!


----------



## lotus123

Hi!

BlueCloud and Maya2016,fingers crossed that this attempt will be positive!

May be someone knows: does the clinic works during summer?
I know that dr.Elena will be on her vocation from June till September... may be most of them will have such long vocations?
In this case our 3rd attempt will be not earlier then in autumn.


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Lotus123 

I know the clinic is closed for 2 weeks in August. If Dr Elena is on holiday for so long, won't they just get another doctor to find and match a surrogate to you? Did they say it will be after September?

I don't think they should make you wait so long . If someone has a long holiday, that isn't your fault ao you should not have to wait so long.

S xx


----------



## michellemichelle

@Lotus I am so sorry!    My thoughts are with you! Really wished the best for you and maybe next time is the lucky time for you! Fingers crossed! 
xoxox


----------



## michellemichelle

@Stilltryingandhoping
oh well, it must be really hard for Lida to work alone and it makes me think that she's doing well if you really think about how much work she actually has. I imagine she's managing more than 2 couples and yet she's alone right now. But anyways, it'll be better when she has assistants. 

PS I've met my surrogate mother! It was awesome!!!!!! I am not that good of a writer so I cannot really explain my feelings but I am really happy.


----------



## Maya2016

Hi!
I haven`t written anything because I don`t have information from the clinic. Lida sent me a mail on Saturday that the day of the embryo transfer need to be postponed from 11.05. to 16.05. because they need more time to grow the endometrium. Unfortunately we don`t have any news from the clinic.   I hope Lida will send me details about the embryo transfer and quality of the transferred embryos today.
Lotus123, it will be very difficult for the clinic if Dr. Elena will be on holiday for 3 months. I`m also worried because she is  my doctor. Would you mind asking your manager if somebody will temporarily cover Dr. Elena during her holiday? I hope you feel better now and you are ready for the next attempt.   Hope Biotex will find soon a new surrogate mother for you.


----------



## Maya2016

Michellemichelle, I`m really happy for you! I`m sure the first meeting with your babies and your SM was marvelous! 
Hope all of us will feel this wonderful feeling soon.


----------



## Maya2016

Michellemichelle, I`m really happy for you! I`m sure the first meeting with your babies and your SM was marvelous! 
Hope all of us will feel this wonderful feeling soon.


----------



## lotus123

Hi!

*Maya2016*, my doctor isn't Elena. I wanted to change her to Elena, but my manager has received consultation from her, and they have decided that for the next attempt I will have the same doctor - Valeria.
It seems (not proved information) that only Dr.Elena will have so long summer vocation...

Good luck to you! I hope that today you will receive news from clinic! Fingers crossed!!!!

*michellemichelle*, so amazing.. 12 weeks already... I can't even imagine ... So cute and emotionally...

*Stilltryingandhoping*, no, I'm lucky and my protocol will be in June-July, I've already have started to take medicines Duphaston (I don't know wherefore
- last time I wasn't taken them and this time I haven't do any blood test till now ...only Ovulation) and on the next Friday I need to do scan.


----------



## Maya2016

Hi,
I am happy today because Lida conferred me that the transfer was done . Two embryos with quality AA4 and AA3 were transferred. I hope we have started our successful attempt. 

Lotus123, I`m happy you will start again in June/July. Fingers crossed to you.


----------



## ab55

Lots of luck to Maya and Lotus! Lotus, we have dr. Valeria as well and I considered her just amazing. Moreover you are lucky to talk to her directly as you speak Russian and that is a huge plus.
Michelle, massive congratulations and smooth pregnancy!
Xx


----------



## lotus123

Maya2016, Congratulations! So you are 2ww!!! The quality of your lovely embryos are perfect!!! Do you know the last attempt embryo's quality?
ab55, as women - yes, Valeria is very good!! I agree, but she is rather young and I have 2 negative attempts.. only that is why...


----------



## Maya2016

Lotus123, unfortunately I don`t know the quality of the previous embryos, but I hope these two are lucky ones for us.


----------



## michellemichelle

Hello everyone! Thank you for your best wishes! Such a pleasure to be a part of this beautiful community!
The time we’ve met our SM was amazing! Everything was so good! I was really nervous but oddly enough our surrogate mother seemed very calm and It was like she knew every single step of the process and that was really strange to contemplate like as if she was a doctor herself, we were getting her words translated and she told us that she was not only getting prepared physically but emotionally too and she did read a lot and I believe it was not her first surrogacy experience so yeah. 
Good luck everyone! 
Lots of love Lotus123!


----------



## BlueCloud

Its a BFP. We are over the moon. The report says HCG 2317!! 
Scan is on 08/06. I feel so blessed!!!


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Congratulation Bluecloud!!! That's fantastic news 🎉🎉🎉🎉


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## Stilltryingandhoping

We got our 16 week scan results today, and I am so excited to say that our baby is looking healthy and everything is on track. And the newest bit of news is we are having a boy!!!!

I'm so excited! My husband wants it to be a surprise so we will only buy unisex things  

S xx


----------



## lotus123

Good morning!!!

So many good news!!!

BlueCloud, congratulations!!! Amazing!!! It seems that it can be twins   
Stilltryingandhoping, already 16 weeks!!! Boy!!! Super!!! Healthy long awaited boy!!! Congratulations!!!
Maya2016, when you have hcg test? Next weak? (fingers crossed) Have you changed your manager successfully? 

I'm reading this forum and have contact with some couples from clinic... I really sometimes feel that we are "pregnant" as well...
But unfortunately still no... I it seems that I'm first here who have/will have more then 2 attempts with surrogacy for achieving positive result... but I hope that not more then 3 .. I really hope


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## ab55

@BlueCloud, massive congratulations and an easy pregnancy. And waiting 
@Stilltrying, wonderful news, so happy for you.
@Lotus, it will come to you as well, sometimes I feel that somebody up there tries us really hard. Xxx


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## michellemichelle

BlueCloud said:


> Its a BFP. We are over the moon. The report says HCG 2317!!
> Scan is on 08/06. I feel so blessed!!!


Congratulations!     
I am so happy for you!
xxxx


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## michellemichelle

Stilltryingandhoping said:


> We got our 16 week scan results today, and I am so excited to say that our baby is looking healthy and everything is on track. And the newest bit of news is we are having a boy!!!!
> 
> I'm so excited! My husband wants it to be a surprise so we will only buy unisex things
> 
> S xx


Congratulations as well! A boy! Oh, this is amazing! Really amazing news!
You are so blessed


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Thank you everyone! So happy with everything !


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## minerva71

been a while and I'm so pleased to see this number of amazing news! 
*Stilltryingandhoping*, congarts on your baby boy! I wish everything will be only smoother x
*BlueCloud*, great numbers and fab news! fingers crossed for healthy pregnancy 
*Lotus123*, so sorry..but hold on! you'll see, it will work just give it a time (3 is a wonderful number). thinking of you 
*michellemichelle*, that's so lovely! I guess I feel your excitement of this appointment. are you going to keep in touch with your SM from now?
*Maya2016*, fingers crossed for a positive result. beta should be on Thursday? x


----------



## Maya2016

Hi, I wasn't`t at home for one week and what to see – so many wonderful news!

Stilltryingandhoping, congratulations! Fingers crossed for you and your little baby boy! 

BlueCloud, congratulations! Amazing result! Waiting for news from the first scan!

Lotus123, I hope three will be your lucky number! Don`t give up. I`m sure we will cuddle our long awaited babies soon.

I still don`t have information from Lida about the hcg test result. It`s not easy to wait.  I hope she will send me the result today.


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## Maya2016

Unfortunately the hcg test result is  negative.  

Hope Biotexcom will find soon a new surrogate mother for us.


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## lotus123

Maya2016, not, so bad news!!!! I'm so sorry   Unfortunately I can understand your feelings  
I know  It's difficult and it hurts... 
Do you have any frozen embryos  or you should to have stimulation one more times as I?


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Maya

So sorry about the negative. I hope they will find you a surrogate soon. It's a gruelling process, but Han gin there, it will happen! 



Thank you all! It's been a long time coming to get our positive, so although we are cautious, we are enjoying being excited!

S xx


----------



## BlueCloud

Maya so sorry to hear your hcg result


----------



## Maya2016

Lotus, Stilltryingandhoping, Bluecloud, thank you!

Lotus, we don`t have any frozen embryos left. We used DE, so now we will need a new egg donor.


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## lotus123

Maya2016, sorry, I've forgot about DE..
Will you use the same donor?
Have you frozen your husband's sperm or he should go to clinic one more time?
I was sure that possibility of positive result with DE is more... But seems that life is life.. and nobody can guarantee any result...
Be strong and good luck!!!
I know that clinic have some problems with single SM, but with married - everything ok. So I think you won't wait for a long time


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## Maya2016

Lotus, according to Biotex policy we will use a new donor. We prefer to go to the clinic this time and not to use frozen sperm. 
Do you know if the SM is married shall her husband sign the joint agreement or any other document? After the child birth shall he sign some agreement, consent or declaration?


----------



## lotus123

Maya2016, interesting... But can you chose donor online before going to Kiev? Yes, I think fresh sperm is better! Your first time attempt was with fresh or frozen sperm?
When you will know data when you will go to Kiev - let me know ... I also will go to Kiev after some time ...for aprox.2 weeks...
But you have standart agreemend... so you will live in another hotel... but anyway.. If you want to met me - let me know. I think that I will live in Lime Hotel not far from the clinic.
About husband... I don't know.. But i think no... at least agreement about surrogacy with you.


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Maya

I hope they find you a surrogate soon. Lotus is correct, it's much faster if you are not restricted to just having a single surrogate like us British parents are. You'll pick your egg donor from the register again, and they'll synchronise one of the donors you've picked with a surrogate. Fresh sperm always seems to have a much higher chance of success, so I really hope it works for you! 

As for the joint agreement, I think it will probably just be the surrogate who signs this(if anyone else knows otherwise please let us know). The reason I think this is because in Ukraine, the law states that the baby is always the Intended parents. The contract is more to do with payments and how the surrogate needs to adhere to certain rules for her health and attending clinic for check up etc. The surrogates husbands details are written in the contract through. 

I just want to share some information I've gathered with you and also with lotus.  From all
The couples I spoke with who are going through Surrogacy at the clinic, and who had already had success, on average it takes 2-3 attempts for it to result in a pregnant surrogate. When the parents are older(if using own eggs the woman is over 30 or the man is a little older) it seemed to take 3-4 attempts. (This is just the averages of people I have spoken to)

One thing that is evident is that ALL OF THEM did eventually have success!

In the moments when you feel down, please remember this and don't give up! I'm praying so hard for you and hope you will feel the happiness and excitement that me and my husband are feeling now. We still can't believe that it's happening, after so much failure and disappointment. 

S xx


----------



## lotus123

Dear Stilltryingandhoping,

Thank you for your support!!!


----------



## Maya2016

Dear Stilltryingandhoping, thank you for the encouraging words and for your kind support!

Dear Lotus, we have already chosen our second donor via online access to Biotex egg donor database. I hope our new donor will bring us lots of happiness.   Our first attempt was with frozen sperm because unfortunately our first surrogate mother broke her leg just a few days before the day of the egg retrieval.   So Biotex offered us to frozen the embryos until finding a new surrogate mother for us. 
I will be very very happy to see you in Kiev. We are expecting information from Biotex when they find a new surrogate mother. As soon as I know I will write to you.


----------



## michellemichelle

@minerva71 No, not yet, for now we can only talk to our surrogate mother via skype with our manager or in person but also with our manager as an interpreter. But I think that after she delivers our beautiful twins we will be asking her whether she wants to stay in touch with us or not. I am yet to figure out if this is okay..


----------



## lotus123

Maya2016, wau! Your first attempt was not so easy...even broken leg...I'm so sorry...
It's good than this clinic is flexible and loyal!
Hoping that this 3rd attempt will be VERY VERY positive for us!!!
I'm going to Kiev next week. So share with me with days when you are going to Kiev as well ;-)


----------



## Maya2016

Lotus, I hope so! 
Wish you a lot of success in Kiev! I will write you as soon as I receive any news from Biotexcom.


----------



## hopeandpray

Wow page 83! I wonder when we'll get a new post


----------



## lotus123

Maya2016, thank you dear!!!


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi everyone! I hope everyone is having a great week! Thought I would say hi, as the chat is going a little quiet. 

I can't believe I'm writing this(I wouldn't have imagined it a few months ago) but I spent the morning buying baby things. Had anyone heard of Ewan the dream sheep? It's a sheep toy that you out with small babies, and it makes some noises that are familiar to the baby. Like heartbeat noises or white noise. I bought one today and I'm stupidly excited about it 😂. I've also managed to buy 3 different nappy changing bag(1 to take to Ukraine) 1 for the summer and 1 that is more unisex so my husband can use it. 

In 2 weeks exactly, I will have gotten to Ukraine and be on my way to the hotel. Our 20 week scan is on 23rd June and I'm excited to meet our surrogate mother for the first time! 

I hope everyone is well!
S xx


----------



## minerva71

*Stilltryingandhoping*, hi! Fantastic news! I'm the same, just began to think about nursery and clothes and other stuff. Ewan is amazing! MAybe I'll order it from amazon. The thing that pisses me off is the colour of boy's clothes. It seems like if it's a boy you must wear him in 50 shades of blue. Seems like bright colours as yellow, orange, green are too girlish...argh!
It must be very exciting to see her IRL.Do you keep in touch with her or you contact her only with the help of Lida?
Good luck x


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Minerva

I've been getting a lot of yellows, greens , turquoise colours because I like them. And I bought a girl squirrel toy yesterday for him because who says he cans have a little squirrel girlfriend?  I think that each parent should do what they feel they want to do, I don't believe in bringing a child up with these type of preconceptions. But that is my view personally. 

Lida is not the manager for English speaking department now. Yaryna will now manage the English speaking clients. But when I go in 2 weeks, I will take a card and have one of my Ukrainian speaking friends write it for me so she can read it. In there I will add my contact details and tell her that we can stay in touch if she wants to, I will do whatever she wants to do. For me, it's good to respect her wishes. So far we only have contact through the clinic, but I want her to be able to contact me directly if there is an emergency. 

Minerva when is your due date? 

S xx


----------



## Lacerta

Hello all. 
I’ve written here before and now I need to talk to you again. May 29 was a big day for our family as we were waiting for an email from Lida with our surrogate’s hcg results. Of course we got the letter and actually it was not what we expected. BFN... So, it means it was all for nothing. I remember some of you were in the same situation and I need to hear from you. Lotus123, Maya2016 and Stilltryingandhoping, I see that your first surrogates didn’t succeed. I understand now how hard it is and you need to wait again and again without any updates. Oh my, I was told this waiting game would last for at least one month but I understand that it might be much longer. Don’t know what to expect and have too many concerns. I see there is no point to disturb a manger even more so I don’t know what to say. What should I be ready for?  
I hope the rest of you are doing well


----------



## minerva71

*Stilltryingandhoping*
I love these colours either but who implanted these doubts in my mind was a woman in a baby store. I took different creepers, tshirts,pants and shorties of different coulours but when she asked me about my babies' gender she made that stupid face with "heh" sound. Then she gavae me few blue, baby-blue, sky-blue, navy blue, indigo-blue and other something-blue clothes that I almost burst with anger. I bought nothing as a result. Sure it's hormones are raging in me but still...why the hell she cares what I want my children to wear? In addition I'm not at home, we have a vacation in Czech and I didn't think something or someone would spoil my day. You say it right, parents are free to decide what they want to do according to what they feel. 
How come? Same Yaryna who was in charge of egg donation? Why not Anastasia? I remember that she was always busy but how she can deal with egg donation and surrogacy at the same time or maybe there is someone else who replace her in ED? Anyways, it's not what I'm actually interested in. 
A card, sounds sweet. I'm sure that she will be pleased with it.I think it's a good idea to have a direct contact and not to wait for emails from the clinic. 
Hard to say for sure as it's most likely that it won't take 40weeks, we thought about week 37 or 38, if so then my due date is the last week of Sept or the first week of Oct.As far as I understand, your SM is to deliver your son in October as well but in the end, right?


----------



## Maya2016

Hi Stilltryingandhoping, you sound very happy and excited! I am expecting news from you from the first meeting with your surrogate mother and your sweet baby boy. I dream of touching our surrogate mother`s belly. I hope you will feel the kicks of your baby! 

Hi Lacerta, I am sorry for your negative result!   It`s very difficult, I know. Do you have frozen embryos? Do you use DE or need new stimulation? I hope you will receive news from the clinic soon. I read this forum and fill with positive emotions and I belief that all we will succeed. Unfortunately it is not possible all of us to see the positive result from the first IVF.


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Lacerta
I'm so sorry for the BFN! 
Yes we had a negative with the first transfer too. Just remember one thing, from the time you sign the contact, until you get a positive and it reaches 12 weeks, that is the most difficult wait. After that it is easier- because you know you'll get some news every 4 weeks. The doctors can only tell the coordinators some news to give you when they have some news to give. But I am completely sympathetic, because I remember how crazy I was getting when I went through the wait. Sometimes it's good to just vent and get it out  but after it is out, just busy yourself in your life and they will carry on in Kiev to make your dreams happen. 

Minerva ah that's not good. You're pregnant so you also have the hormones to contend with. With surrogacy, we don't have to deal with that. But I do think that there are a lot of women going through surrogacy who would give anything to have the hormonal confusion, the rising anger when someone says something wrong and the general experience. Despite it being a pain, make sure you enjoy every minute of it- including getting annoyed at shop assistants when they say anything inappropriate 😂😂😂

Maya yes I am excited, I've waited a long time to be excited, so now we will enjoy it  I hope you will feel this all soon too 

S xx


----------



## minerva71

*S*, yeh, I'm trying to deal with this but sometimes I forget that I need to enjoy my emotions. Anyway, I'm aure that dealing with surrogacy could be even more difficult because you can't make it out what's going on there. I suppose you live in a constant waiting and every new email could be vital. I sometimes can't explain my own feelings and don't know how to interpret them but if a woman who carriess your baby is miles away..can't imagine. Actually I think what I have because of hormones you have because of a constant waiting. It's a bit difficult to enjoy the convrsation with that shop assistant &#128514;
Best wishes to you, S xx

*Lacerta*, I'm so sorry it didn't work from the first attempt..I hope the next try will be successful. Hold on! x


----------



## lotus123

Hi!

Lacerta, I'm so sorry for your negative result... Me and Maya have already 2 negative attempts  I hope that this digit will not be larger...
If you have frozen embryos so your next attempt will be soon in 1-2 months, not longer (If I right remember that you had ED). So be strong! It's difficult but you should...and should wait.... 

Stilltryingandhoping, it's amazing to read you! Already 20 weeks!!! Half of pregnancy!!! Super! I can't even imagine how happy you are!!!
When you are going to Kiev? I'll be here..but I still haven't bought tickets from Kiev... EC (if everything ok) will be on 21 June. And you have economy agreement so it's seems that we can be in the same hotel!!!
Good luck to you  for so amazing moment - meeting your SM and lovely son!!!!


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Lotus123 
Next week when we have the scan, it will be 20 weeks. What date will you leave Kiev? If you private message me and send me your number, I will ******** or viber you. 

S xx


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## lotus123

S,

Yes, I know that 20 weeks will be on the next week...but it's so soon!!!! 
I've sent you pm.


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Lotus123 good luck with your trip! I hope everything goes well with your stimulation and egg collection. 

S xx


----------



## Lacerta

Thank you, Maya2016. I'm sure you can understand like no one else. Fortunately, we have frozen embies of donor eggs. 
Yes, it was maybe a bit silly of me to expect positive from the very first attempt and the disappointment is even greater because of that. Anyways, I'm glad that we don't need to start a new program. I contacted with the clinic and they are still looking for a surrogate but assured me that it wouldn't take much time. I want to believe in this. Wish you all the best for your next attempt as well x


----------



## Lacerta

Stilltryingandhoping, thank you. Yeah, I can imagine that although I was waiting only 2 weeks. I googled info about the first trimester and I got nervous as there are so many possible difficulties within this period. I was told that the first information we would receive if she has BFP is 6-7 week scan results, not only when her pregnancy reaches 12 weeks. Is it true? Or I need to wait for any updates for 3 months?? Is it possible to cope with this waiting game without going crazy? I doubt it. Anyways, thanks for coming back to me on this. Few months ago I read your blogpost and was a bit stressed about problems you had mentioned but now your words pacify me. Hoping for the best. 
I can feel your excitement about your first meeting with surrogate. have fun for all of us x


----------



## Lacerta

Thank you, Lotus123..It must be tough for sure but still better than to find out that something happened to your surrogate's pregnancy. I've read about this and it distresses me. I'm sure 2 negatives it's enough to experience. I hope it won't increase for all of us as well. I've got frosties so all my prayers are there with them, I wish I knew if they are ready to stick next time. Thank you for such encouragement! Fingers crossed for all of us x


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Lacerta

The clinic first tells you if the HCG is positive 2 weeks after the transfer. 2 weeks later, they do an ultrasound and then tell you if the embryo/embryos are ok. At this point, it is classed as 6 week gestation. Then comes the hard part, 6 week wait until the 12 week scan! 

Everyone has the same process, and in countries like England where I am from, people do not even have this many tests. So although it is difficult, try to be busy in your life and you will get the result at 13 weeks. 

Yes I had some stress at the start, part of it was being so stressed with the waiting, and part of it was not understanding how it all works with the clinic. I share a lot of information on my blog and I hope it helps people deal with this issue of not knowing. So now, it should be easier for others. I also have been helping the clinic where I can by giving feedback to them. 

S xx


----------



## Selective

Hi, My husband and I are seriously thinking about surrogacy in the Ukraine.  Contacting the clinics they say you need a report from your doctor stating your reason for not being able to carry a child yourself and needing a surrogate.  I am 50 years old, have had cycles of Clomid in the past and now have fibroids that are very painful and cause heavy bleeding which they do not want to remove because of my age and being near the menopause.  I don't think that they particularly distort the uterus as they are mainly in the muscle body.  There is a possibility of me have an endometrial ablation which would mean that IVF etc could be dangerous and unsustainable in fact dangerous for mother and child as there is no top layer of endometrium.  Would this be enough cover the law in the Ukraine?

I would be grateful if you could give me advice as they general guidelines seem well very general. 

Thank you


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi
Me and my husband are going through surrogacy in Ukraine too, with a clinic called BioTexCom. Have you spoken to them? (I'm happy to talk to you about our experience- I also blog about it and refer new clients). We just got a letter summarising our medical/fertility history and our consultant wrote "because of all of this, surrogacy is now an option for them". Which was enough . If you got a doctors letter stating your medical conditions and that ivF would be dangerous/not recommended then that should be enough. 

S xx


----------



## michellemichelle

I am also with biotexcom and they have said that they need to have a written proof that surrogacy is the option from the doctor and even in my case we had to ask our consultant to write a similar letter.  The letter is enough as I think, but you can ask them, clinics directly 
xxx


----------



## Selective

We are looking into Biotexcom in the Urkaine for surrogacy.  Please could someone explain to me how long it takes once the child is born to return to the UK on average?  As part of the contract from Biotexcom do you get to stay in the accommodation they have provided for as long as it takes to get a passport for the child?  Or do you have to find your own accommodation please?

Has anyone had problems getting their child back to the UK?  Do you trust Biotexcom?


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Selective. 

I have documented my whole experience to date on my blog and also what I have found in terms of researching to bring our baby home. If you read the "useful information" section on my blog, it should help you. 

www.oursurrogacyblog.wordpress.com

Feel free to get in touch if you have any questions  

S xx


----------



## lotus123

Hi to everybody!

It's rather silent here...

My news:
I've back from Kiev. In this protocol I had more dose of medicines (Merional and Pregnil). Finally from my single ovary we had 7 eggs, 6 mature eggs, 5 (!!!) blasts , 3 from which have been transferred (AB4, AB4, AB3) to our new lovely SM and 2 were frozen (AB3, BB3). No one with grade AA, but still are rather good..even better then last time...however last time i had more follicles and eggs...
So now we are 2ww. Fingers crossed that this our 3rd attempt will be positive!!!


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Lotus123

Brilliant news and fingers crossed! The 2ww is difficult, but I hope it is positive and work this time.

I went to a kiev and met our surrogate mother last week. It was amazing to meet her and get to know each other, and I feel Secure now that I know she is a caring and compassionate person. I was present during our 20 week scan also, and I'm reey glad I went there. ( Ive  written more about the meeting in my blog)
It's all seems like a dream, I still can't believe it's happening 

S xx


----------



## hopeandpray

Hi Lotus 
They are wonderful grades. I had 3 blastocysts 1AA 1AA and 3AA. Everything I've read says 4's have a better chance than 1-3's even if they are lower grade. I'm really anxious that mine our slow growing and still at 1 but I think I'd be anxious regardless. 
I'm hoping for positive news for boy of us 
X


----------



## hlin1

I have been in touch with Feskov Clinic in Kharkov, Ukraine. Does anyone recently visit them or have any reviews about them?


----------



## Tracey42

Hi Everyone, 

I'd like to join this forum as we are now considering surrogacy after 5 years of IVF and a final (failed) cycle last week. To be honest surrogacy has been on the back burner for the last few years but after getting another BFN on Monday we have to hold our hands up and accept we've done everything and move on.

Stilltryingandhoping - do we know each other from FGA? You're journey is a revelation and thank you for such honesty and detail in your posts/blogs. Did you say you were advising with the Biotexcom for UK couples or did I pick that up wrong? Huge congrats on your SM's pregnancy.  Did you ever consider surrogacy in the UK?

T x


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Tracey

Thank you for following my journey and reading my blog! I still feel amazed when people reach out to me through the blog or comment on it, I forget how great it is to read an honest account 

Ok so I feel silly but what is FGA? Is it Fertility and Gynacology academy? We through to go there as our next move after Care Fertility was either to see Dr Gorgy (or go tin lister clinic), OR just move to surrogacy. And I think we chose well  we did think ok doing surrogacy in the UK but all agencies had closed their books to Intended parents last year and even through a few have opened again now, it's extremely difficult
To match up with a surrogate. We knew it would take us many years and even then, it may not happen. 

I do reccomend BTC but what I usually do is speak to people first and then talk to them about my experience and  tell them what things they should expect. Then if they feel that it's something that is right for them, I add them to support groups I've created and can help them moving forward. BTC have become great within the English department at making improvements in areas that I had previously complained about massively! Like communication! And I still have regular contact to provide feedback so they will carry on changing for the better. 

Since last year, I've noticed a huge difference within the clinic and me and my husband will definitely be going through them for a second baby too! 

I'm so sorry that you've had a bad run of things, feel free to send me a message through my blog or a private message on here if you want to have a chat to know a bit more about my experience  

S xx


----------



## Richi

Hi, 

I was there 4/5 years ago and wasnt satisfied. Could recommend a clinic in moscow. Get my second child with this doctor now. Both with positiv result with first attempt.

Greets


----------



## beth_brown

Not yet in Ukraine. We are looking at BioTexCom closely for treatment. We know they have various packages. Anyone can tell us if we should go ahead with it?
Thanks


----------



## beth_brown

I have been looking at Ukraine too. But this one I was looking at is in Kiev. I have had many suggestions from various forums. They supposedly have various packages. Hope that helps.


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Beth 

I don't think anyone else can tell you if you should go ahead as it is such a personal decision. I have shared my experience with BTC from the very beginning, and that is there for you to read if you want to read an honest account- good and bad. I started it in the diary section and have since carried on as a Wordpress blog. I did send you a message with a link, it's also in my signature. 

Good luck with deciding what to do. Happy to help if you have any specific questions and I'm able to  

S xx


----------



## Mummytwins

Hi everyone
Hope you all are keeping well and positive as we pursue our dreams. Positive thoughts for everyone😄
I haven't updated this forum for a while now due mainly to the fact that i was dealing with some health issues for which i had a major operation last Thursday and I'm still in hospital as I write 😊
Anyway, it was good to know that whilst I was dealing with my health problem here in the UK there is a wonderful team in far away Ukraine sorting out my baby issue (the joy of surrogacy, eh!).
It's a long journey as we all know but the short of it is that we had our first embryo transfer to our sm on 30th June. Two weeks later on 14th July we received the hcg report and it was a BFP!
HCG was 6213. This seems very high compared to what i've been reading from others on this forum. I know that too low hcg should be something to worry about but I'm not sure if there is anything like "too high" hcg or if we should be worried about anything. The first scan is scheduled for tomorrow though.
I'm full of mixed emotions right now. Can't believe it was actually positive on 1st attempt!


----------



## ab55

Congratulations Hope&Pray! 
That's wonderful news. Hope you'll have a fast recovery and the ultrasound scan will bring you even better news.
Xxx


----------



## Mummytwins

Thanks Ab55 😀


----------



## Mummytwins

Bella - your inbox is full!

Ab55 - everything is fine. We are having twins!


----------



## ab55

Wow, congratulations Hope&Pray, that's wonderful news! I am sure it will help your recovery a lot. Xxx


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hope&pray 

CONGRATULATIONS!!!! That's fantastic news!

S xx


----------



## Bella2016

Haha!!! Fantastic news, H&P, hun!! And 'I told you so'!!   The high HCG was an obvious indication. I hope the pregnancy will go well and happily and before you realise, your babies will be in your arms. 😊
Xxx

Ps: I have now cleared some space in my inbox.


----------



## Maya2016

Hope&Pray,

CONGRATULATIONS! Twins!    Great news!

I wish happy pregnancy to your SM!


----------



## Lilly08

Congratulations, Hope&Pray!
It's great news!
Wishing you all the best! Please keep us updated


----------



## Meryl686

Hello, I'm new here.
First, please excuse me, but my English is not good.
In short, we are a couple from Eastern Europe,
After we had too many in vitro experiments, we signed a contract with BioTex
Two weeks ago it was the collection of eggs. From  a donor. We were there, but we did not get any information on how many eggs  were.
They told us that we would receive an embryological report on the day of the transfer. On the day of the transfer I received an email saying that there was a problem.
The surrogate mother has a car accident.
They were looking for another surrogate mother. The embryos will freeze . We again asked how many embryos we have and we still have no answer.
We are very tense and worried. 
Is it normal to have no information on how many eggs we have and how many embryos we have received?


----------



## Dory10

Meryl Welcome to FF 

I would urge you to contact your clinic and clearly ask them for this information they are the only ones able to provide it

Good luck

Dory
Moderator


----------



## Mummytwins

Thank you all for your good wishes - Stilltryingandhoping, Bella, Maya, Lilly, Biabella and everyone else  

I will do my best to keep this forum updated on our journey to happiness  

Like Biabella, I was also wondering and hoping that Lotus is ok? 

Good luck to everyone


----------



## Biabella

Hi, everyone! I posted before and then by mistake I erased it... 🙈
I was saying that I was thankful to you for sharing your experiences,  they all are very helpful, so please, don't stop writing about your journeys! I was very happy when I found you, reading this topic helped me a lot and it is also thanks to you that I am ready now to start my journey, which I intend to share with you if you will have me. I'd really need some support from people who understand, and people in my "real" life don't get surrogacy very well...

We chose Biotexcom and we are going to sign the contract in September. I'm excited and scared at the same time...

Congratulations again, Hope&Pray! I see that you red my previous post. 

Lotus123, I hope that everything went good this time!

I am sorry for my English and hope you will understand me even if my writing isn't perfect... I won't try to modify it anymore becouse this is how I ended by erasing the first one... 

🍀🍀🍀


----------



## lotus123

Hi to everyone!!!

Hope&Pray, congratulations!!! Super news!!! Super big HCG!!!!!  
Biabella, welcome! Good luck to you in surrogacy jorney!!! From what country are you from? Are you going to use your eggs or ED? What is the problem with you/your husband?

I haven't write here for a long period because I was afraid... finally I've decided to share with my story about my 3rd attempt:
on 14th day after ETD we've received long awaited result - HCG 422!!! I was happy but after a loss of my baby on 41 week I tried not to be so happy and not to plan anything...
2 weeks scan (yesterday) - doctor couldn't find Gestational sac... so unfortunately this means for us - 3rd BFN      Doctor can't explain why it happened because my anamnesis was super (I had 2 healthy pregnancies myself), rather good embryos, super good and young SM... but BFN...

So...now I really don't know what to do... because I'm not ready for DE... and now I have a lot of thoughts that may be it's my karma not to have more babies... 
So may be we will try one more time... unfortunately for additional fee.... but i really don't even believe... and afraid for my health as well...


----------



## ab55

Hi everybody,
Dear Lotus, it's so terrible what happened to you. Life is not fair and we saw that so many times.
When I was confronted with the fact we had to use a sperm donor we had lots of problems, I believe I had way more than my DH. Therefore I assumed he had same thoughts also. I was ready to give up my genetic link to the baby to have a child with my husband.
Only when our SM miscarried the twins, back in April, and I saw my husband crying like a child a realised how wrong and stupid I was. 
However, we are all different and what is important for us may not be for yourself. I'd take some time and counsel to deal with it. Stimulation is not the easiest time of your life and you already had 2 within a short time, worse even, from your only ovary.
Take care and lots of luck to all of us. Xxx


----------



## Mummytwins

Oh no, Lotus I am so, so, sorry to hear this. I don't even know what to say to you. I can only imagine how you feel right now. I have been super excited at the prospect of us having the twins but reading yours and Ab55's stories i am now very anxious, knowing how things could easily change.
Like Ab55 said, my advice to you would be do not be in a hurry to do anything now. Take time to reflect. Seek counselling if possible. I wish you success and I hope you make the right decision for your future.


----------



## Meryl686

Dory10, thanks for the welcome! 
I asked a lot No answer.
I hope to get good news soon.
Now I read the forum in detail and enjoy the success stories.
Good luck to all!


----------



## Biabella

Lotus, I am so sorry! I can only imagine how difficult it is for you to decide what to do next. Going for DE is not an easy choice for anyone, but I think it's even harder for you since you allready have your own child. I hope you still have frozen embryos to have at least another attempt before you'll have to decide if going for DE or another stimulation. I still think you will have your second child, don't give up!

My story is long, even if I am young. I'm 28 and my husband is 38. We wanted to be young parents so when I was 25 we started. For the first year everything was "perfect" but I never got pregnant. After the first year of TTC naturally we changed doctor and started to find a lot of problems. They had to remove my tubes, but it didn't seem to be a problem becouse IVF seemed to be a sure deal for me with my age. Well, it wasn't! I always had perfect embryos but no implantation. I am Romanian, currently living in Italy, so we tried in Italy, in Romania and also in Greece. Nobody understands why I never had implantation... I have adenomyosis, but is not advanced and all doctors said that's not the reason. Recently I had an MRI to see if the adenomyosis grew, it didn't, but my endometriosis did... When I had the laparoscopy (when they also removed my tubes) I didn't have any endometriosis cysts on my ovaries, but now I do, I don't know if it got so aggressive due to all the stimulations I had ( I had 4 cycles of stimulations and also treatments with estrogens before FET)... It seems like more I try to get pregnant and more my body goes against me. After the last FET I got depressed and the only thing that helped me recover was the thought that we still have surrogacy to try. People tell us to "don't give up", like surrogacy is giving up for them. What can I wait? That my endometriosis compromises my eggs and than I won't even have my chance on trying surrogacy with my eggs? Should I have another laparoscopy (that also affects my AMH), and then keep going trough IVF's and failures until I go crazy? I think I tried it all. So now I think my only hope is surrogacy. I still have 3 frozen embryos in Greece, but I don't have the strength to try another FET. I feel like a murderer keep transferring embryos in my uterus after so many attempts with no implantation.

We are going for the economy package, we can't afford the standard one at the moment, even if we know that's better. They told me that given my age, I can have 3 attempts of IVF with my eggs, plus FET if we'll have embryos to freeze. I hope we'll finally get our baby, hopefully with my eggs, but if we'll have to pass to DE, I don't mind, I'll know that I've tried it all and I'll accept the situation, the most important thing is to become parents. 🙏
I'm sorry if I bored you with my story and my frustrations! I know it is a long post, but this is the shortest I can be when talking about my infertility experience. I promise I'll write less on my future posts... 
Good luck to all of you!
🍀🍀🍀


----------



## Lilly08

Your story is shocking, Biabella... Sad to know doctors couldn't diagnose your issue properly!
So sorry for all you are going through. This journey seems endless sometimes. I guess that all of us who are in this forum can understand your frustrations. We all have our good and bad days. We all need to express ourselves so don't feel shy to write long posts please.
I'm happy to know you didn't give up. I'm sure each time you are closer to make your dream come true.

Lotus...so sorry too! DE is hard decision to make..I totally understand you.
Best of luck


----------



## Perez

Hi dear Ladies! I wish you all the best in your future experience.  Hope you’ll have healthy babies you surely deserve and God sees your sufferings. I didn’t intend sharing my story in details but I feel it will be fairer to say a couple of words about my health state. Since my childhood I had a failing heart and an asthma. Now additionally I feel bad due to hypertension.  
All my current dreams and thoughts are about children and this cruel inability to give a birth by myself. 
I’d like to consider Ukrainian option because I heard a lot about this destination on different fertility forums. So this topic is highly interesting to me in my case. 
However, as far I know Ukraine deals only with officially married couples. I admit I’ve been recently close to become a wife. I was living through amazing relationships with young and handsome guy who didn’t abominate me because of my weight or my weakness. I really expected I would receive a marriage proposal but we suddenly finished. It was another blow. Only now I accumulated enough power and energy to be honest and open. 
I’d like to start my own journey asap but I don’t know what to do further. 
Thank you and be happy Darlings! XXX


----------



## Arose

Hi Amelia
Let me start by wishing you the best of luck and apologise for this late contribution. Allow me to gloss over a few things that must be done to ensure that you get the best results. First, I am sure your doctor has carried the necessary tests to ensure that you are well prepared to undergo surrogacy. You also need to prepare yourself both emotionally and physically during the pregnancy. Here are a few more things that you should expect to happen.
There will be more testing during the pregnancy unlike in the case of other pregnancies. The amniotic fluid will have to be tested to establish compatibility. Chances of multiple are high if you choose In-vitro fertilization. With this method, you can even opt for triplets. You will have to be part of the birth plan. Your doctor will discuss this with you and allow you to choose the best plan. Lastly, I wish you the best of luck, and I am sure your objectives will be achieved.


----------



## Lilly08

Hi Arose,
Thank you for your insight.
Have you been a surrogate mother? If so, could you tell me more about your experience?
Definitely preparing yourself emotionally is the hardest thing to do. Being a surrogate mother or having your baby carried by a surrogate mother are really hard decisions to make. 
While focusing so much in being a mother and getting the best treatment, I didn't really think of the risks yet.. 
In case the amniotic fluid is incompatible.. what would be the procedure?


----------



## Lilly08

Hey,
Is anyone going to biotex com this month?


----------



## Perez

Lilly08 said:


> Hey,
> Is anyone going to biotex com this month?


 I'd like to but...


----------



## Lilly08

heheh but what?
Would love to meet you there!


----------



## lotus123

Dear Lilly08,

Biotexcom is closed from August 14 until August 27th.


----------



## Biabella

Hey!🤗 I'll be there on August 29th.


----------



## Meryl686

BFP! 
We are smiling and a little scared. It's still too early and uncertain.


----------



## Biabella

Congratulations! I got scared when I red about the communication problems you had with them, but now I am so happy to know they did a good job... So happy for you!


----------



## Meryl686

Thanks!
Unfortunately, communication is still very slow. This is because coordinators are waiting for information from doctors and embryologists.
I did not know the result of the test until the next day. But it is important to have positive results.
Good luck Biabella!


----------



## Wraith

Hi everybody. I am new here, but have been following this post for months.

I'm a 36 year old male from the USA who is interested in surrogacy in the Ukraine. After several years of trying to have a baby with my wife, several clinics and specialists later that couldn't find out why we weren't able to conceive, it was finally discovered that my wife had Uterine Cancer.

Long story short, my wife had to have a full hysterectomy (uterus and ovaries removed) and obviously is unable to carry a child now. She has been cancer free for several years now. We can't afford the $100k costs of a surrogacy here in the USA, and after managing to get help from friends and family on 2 different occasions, drama has prevented us from going through with it here in the USA (sister in law backing out of being an egg donor last minute; friends wife agreed to be surrogate and donor, but then he was unfaithful and she backed out). So now we are looking to the Ukraine.

I've found several companies online for surrogacy in the Ukraine, but my fear is being ripped off. I have not had a lot of luck finding reputable sources confirming the legitimacy of these companies. So I have come here seeking input. New Hope and Bio TexCom are the two companies that are currently at the top of my list, have people on here had successful surrogacy's through these companies or had any dealings with them?

New Hope - This was one of the first ones that popped up when looking into surrogacy in the Ukraine. Has anybody used them or heard anything about them? They are more expensive than some of the other options. But I haven't been able to find a lot of personal experiences people have had with them.
Link: http://surrogacyukraine.com/

Bio TexCom - This place seems to be more affordable and is mentioned a lot in this thread, but they seem to have a bad reputation for customer service. Again, there are a few people that seem to be talking about this place, but it's hard to find a lot of feedback on them.
Link: mother-surrogate.info

My other question is, how do most people get the money for a surrogacy? Even a surrogacy in the Ukraine will cost ~$50,000. I have good credit, but it seems impossible for me to get a personal loan for more than $30,000. Do most people just save up for years and years and pay cash? I'm not sure I could do a home equity loan and get enough cash from that to cover the full cost. This is also why I'm so paranoid of getting ripped off by a company in the Ukraine. I don't have tens of thousands of dollars burning a hole in my pocket.

Thanks for any feedback and help you may provide.


----------



## Lilly08

Hi Wraith,
Sorry to know about your wife's cancer. Glad to know she is fine now.
I'm a bit surprised to read about biotexcom having a bad reputation in customer service. I haven't seen any comment or review saying that.
My experience so far was really good. I got quick answers and detailed information.
I'm going to Ukraine after two days. I will see by myself how the service is.
About payment.. well.. Most of people here has been TTC for a while. In my case we are two adults who have a very good regular income and we have been saving for a while. We would never pay the full amount in one shot though.
The clinic offers us to pay in installments so it is not a big deal for us.
In the link you posted, if you go to Surrogacy packages, you will find the installments descriptions.
I'm sure that if you discuss with them about this issue, you can reach an agreement.


----------



## Lilly08

Hi ladies.. first update: I just landed in Kiev! 
So excited! What I've seen so far is so nice, a lot of flowers, nice weather and beautiful bridges.\
I will keep you posted


----------



## Meryl686

Hello everyone!
The first scan shows two embryos !  

I wish success and good news to everyone!

Dear Wraith, 
prices in Ukraine are most affordable.
You just have to choose a clinic.  The Bio TexCom Coordinators are very busy and respond in less than 1-2 business days. That is!


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi everyone! 
Not been very active for a while as life is so hectic getting ready for baby! A lot of new people in here, so nice to see this forum is still active! 

For anyone who hasn't seen any of my earlier posts, me and my husband started looking into surrogacy about a year and a half ago(although it seems a lifetime ago) and we signed with a biotexcom in September 2016. Our first attempt failed, but our second transfer worked! That transfer happened in February and it seems a million years ago as everything has changed for us with this miracle baby! We are so blessed to be getting ready for baby boy, who is due on November 8th.

Most people on here know I've been very open about sharing my journey and experience with our clinic. I started a diary on fertility friends, which has evolved into a full fledged blog and a book is on the way! I actively am involved in support groups I've created for parents going through Ukraine surrogacy and try to assist other people who are with BioTexCom or thinking of going with them. 

I urge more people to share their experience as it's invaluable to others researching! When we first started researching, it was incredibly difficult to find reliable sources of information. I'm happy to share my experience and welcome others to ready my blog (address is in my signature). 

S xx


----------



## Biabella

Meryl, that's great news! Congratulations!
Lilly, while I was there I couldn't access the forum... I hope you can, looking farward for news from you. Good luck!
For us it was a good start and we hope our journey will continue this way.🙏  We liked the doctor and the coordinator , we feel like we are in good hands, so we left Ukraine very optimistic. I'll probably start stimulation in October and I'm very impatient...


----------



## Mummytwins

12 weeks and counting! Feels surreal because my own pregnancies which all ended in mc had never reached this stage. Our sm had her 12 weeks scan today. Everything looks normal and as expected. We were sent pictures and videos including 3D photos. Twins confirmed! Excited but still holding our breath  

Good luck to everyone!


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hope&pray that's fantastic news, congratulations!!!


----------



## Biabella

Hope&Pray, congratulations! I'm happy for you! I'm "secretly" hoping for twins too. 😉

Lately we had many good news here, I hope we continue like this!🙏


----------



## Mummytwins

Thank you - Stilltryingandhoping and Biabella  

Yes, we are massively excited at the prospect of twins but it's also made me rethink some of my plans. I had hoped to breastfeed. One baby would have been hard enough, but two? I'm not sure I'll have the capability to do so.

Is anyone else considering breastfeeding? Do you think it's worth trying?


----------



## ttc_adventure

Massive congratulations Hope&Pray. We're doing surrogacy in Georgia and also had our 12 week scan yesterday!! All feels so surreal at this stage. I'm also interested in breastfeeding and would appreciate any input from people who have attempted it - were you able to produce enough milk and how hard was it?


----------



## Mummytwins

Thanks ttc and congratulations to you too! I hope we all have our very happy endings   A lady who was on here but who's had her baby now had sent me some info on breastfeeding. I'll locate it and forward to you in case you may find it useful.


----------



## Lilly08

@Meryl and @Hope&Pray congratulations! Great news! Thanks for sharing a bit of your happiness with us! 

@Biabella Hehe things did't go as expected because of my husband -as usual. God willing, we might be able to meet in October. I left Ukraine yesterday. 
Everything was nice and smooth. I'm really happy we finished this first step.
I'm a bit busy now but I will get back soon with full details 
Have a lovely day all of you x


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Lilly08

Thank you! And congratulations on beginning your own journey! I would love to keep in touch and hear more about your experience, and if you want, later when you want more support, ill put you in touch with their couples at the same clinic as us  

The best of luck to you with everything. Feel free to message me and fill me in on how your first visit was 

S xx


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

About breastfeeding, I really looking into it. One invaluable website I found is Ask Lenore, here's a link

https://www.asklenore.info/breastfeeding/abindex.shtml

There's inducing lactation groups on ******** that are really helpful too 

S xx


----------



## Mummytwins

Stilltryingandhoping

Not sure if you got my pm. If you did, please ignore it. That meeting has now taken place and it couldn't have gone any better  

She was very sweet and obviously very happy. It feels very real now and we are beyond excited  

Cheers


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hope&pray 
So sorry I didn't see your messages until now. I've replied with my details so we can keep in touch if you want


----------



## Mummytwins

Hi S
Thank you so much for getting back to me. I'm trying to sort out a new phone. As soon as I have that I can get back on ******** and we can link up.
Cheers


----------



## Lilly08

Stilltryingandhoping said:


> Lilly08
> 
> Thank you! And congratulations on beginning your own journey! I would love to keep in touch and hear more about your experience, and if you want, later when you want more support, ill put you in touch with their couples at the same clinic as us
> 
> The best of luck to you with everything. Feel free to message me and fill me in on how your first visit was
> 
> S xx


Thank you very much!
I will share my experience at biotex soon. I've just started a new job and I've been so busy trying to manage my schedule. 
I would love to be in touch with other couples...Are you still in touch with them? I met another couple there but we didn't have enough time to chat.
I'm so excited and anxious at the same time about all this. I don't know if I will be able to handle everything by myself. It is overwhelming.
Hope you are doing well!
Have a good day, ladies


----------



## Perez

Hello,
I am also interested in your impressions after the first visit. There’re too many talks about this clinic all around. Interesting, is it worth discussing? 
I hope its representatives treated you well.


----------



## Selective

Hi My DH and I are considering going to Biotech in the Ukraine for surrogacy and wondered if I could ask your opinion over qualifying medically for surrogacy.  I have very painful fibroids and at 50 years of age am planning to have a uterine ablation.  After an ablation it is considered almost impossible and dangerous for mother and child to chance a pregnancy.  Would I qualify as unable to bear a child do you think?

x


----------



## Lilly08

Hi @Perez. Yes, I found biotex in this forum. It was recommended by other members and I gave it a try. Everything went as agreed before our trip. Their service actually exceeded my expectations. What would you like to know? Please, feel free to ask me.. I will be happy to help. Pm if you prefer it 
@Selective I really don't know. But you should give them a call. I'm sure they will advise you better x


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Perez

I have been blogging about our experience with the clinic since last year, when we signed up with them. Fee free to read my blog and our experience 

Www.oursurrogacyblog.wordpress.com


Selective

The Ukrainian law states that parents can peruse surrogacy if there is a medical reason that they cannot have a baby, or it is a danger to their health to do so. With Fibroids, i have known people who have this condition and have done surrogacy in Ukraine because they cannot safely carry a child. It really depends on your particular condition. I'm happy to speak to you, feel free to message me.

S xx


----------



## Froya59

Hi all! Finally i've found a forum I was looking for. I've been thinking about surrogacy for 3 years and things have changed within this period. My significant other insisted to go to India because money we had wasn't enough to go elsewhere but by the time we came to the scratche it was too late. So we started all over again and this is how it came to Ukraine. Now I am at the stage of collecting information and I wonder if there is anyone with Lotus?


----------



## Perez

Thank you Girls. I hope you’ll reach the purpose you all definitely deserved.  Lately, I meet lots of unpleasant posts and comments on how this facility works. That’s not funny at all. These are horrible things I even can’t get over. Meanwhile, the same persons publish really encouraging videos and they look content on them. Sometimes it’s like a mix-up.  as I have noticed there just is not one truth, everyone has their own. 
A lot of suspicious comments about the other facilities also seem weird to me.  Well.
Someone from bitexcom has posted info on their ********: sounds like an interactive webinar with head of English department how to start with them.  
ever hear of that? any thoughts?


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Perez

Yes there's been a lot of negative rumours and comments everywhere but my personal experienece has been amazing. I learnt a long time ago to just go by my own experience and not always trust some others because everyone has their own agenda . I do encourage you to ask your clinic if you her anything that worries you and they can help if there is a way. 

There have been webinars in the past and the recordings of these are always online to look back on. The new one should be great because as time goes on, clinics change, so the information  will be more up to date. I'm looking forward to it  

Froya welcome! Me and my husband looked at lotus last year and ended up going for BioTexCom. I can honestly say it was a close call because lotus have a good reputation, but we could not overlook BioTexComs great packages and fantastic success stories. 

Feel free to pm me if you want to ask more about our filtering process and how we chose this particular clinic.

S xx


----------



## Lilly08

Hi everyone! How have you been?   
@Perez.. Thanks for sharing that. It is natural to have some concerns. I had some too. After you actually get in contact with other people who are now parents all these doubts will go away. Contacting the clinic and asking all your questions will reassure you too.
I haven't heard about webinars.. what are they about? Surrogacy?

@froya welcome to the forum. Feel free to ask your questions  we are all in the same journey here. I don't know about Lotus but I can recommend you my clinic
@stilltryingandhoping how have you been? Sorry I haven't read your blog yet. I've been super busy last weeks. I will do it asap  Hope you are doing well


----------



## Perez

Unfortunately, I couldn’t witness the webinar online. I was too busy at that moment.  I’ve watched more than half of it on biotexcom’s page. It has some problems with quality of sound but with using headphones it sounds better. 
A woman hosting a webinar told about maternity hospitals, surrogates, the first steps of parenting and some questions regarding a possibility of embryo shipping were also embraced. I think it was helpful and interesting in equal measures


----------



## Mummytwins

Hi Stilltryingandhoping

I have read your latest blog. It struck a real chord with me and at the same time it gives me a lot of hope that I am not alone. So, thank you!

We are not yet at the stage you are (we are only 15 weeks plus) but I am already dead worried that when the babies arrive I may not have a clue about baby care and good parenting. I am so scared you can't even imagine. Please kindly point me in the direction of where to get the videos you mentioned. That would be very helpful.

I am supper happy for you that you are near the finish line. I'm sure it will be all worth it in the end


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Lilly 

The blogs there for info, whenever you're ready  

Hope&pray
If you think about it, everyone that's  going through a surrogacy journey as a parent goes through similar emotions. Reading someone else's experience will always hold similarities to your own! At 15 weeks I was scared and so guarded! You're just out of that "danger zone" of the first trimester, but probably still worried that something may go wrong. What I did was celebrated each milestone! A special meal or a celebratory drink, nothing over the top. But each milestone is a small victory so enjoy it. It's ok to to cautious, but its also ok to have some hope  

So I have been going on YouTube and searching things like "Newborn care " , "newborn 101", "baby first aid" etc so just do some searching in YouTube and you will find a lot of information. I also bought a very good book that I highly recommend. It's called "What to Expect - The First year" by Heidi Murkoff. There's many books out there so perhaps try a large book shop and browse first. Hope this helps.

S xx


----------



## Mummytwins

Thanks S. You are so right!


----------



## lotus123

Hi to everybody!

I haven't written here for a long period.. because i don't know what to write...

I'm very worry about our 4th attempt in November... I'm already really tired about all this  
I'm worry about totally new protocol with new doctor - short one with Elonva 100 (one FSH injection for 7 days instead of daily Gonal, Puregon etc.)... but in my country this drugs aren't common,
so my local doctors can't comment them...only that this dose seems to be very small (till now i had 2 long protocols with 225 and 300 Merional...and now only 100!!!... for my single ovary) ... moreover i haven't monthly bleading (my womb was removed during last delivery)...so it's no too easy to predisct days of my circle...

Stilltryingandhoping, i'm happy for you and for all other couples who awaiting their babies... but now i even don't reed your super blog... because it's too difficult for me...and to early... but i hope soon...very soon i will read it several times if we receive finally our long awaited pregnancy    

I try to be positive... but it's really difficult...


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi lotus

I can only image how you feel! You know, back in december 2016 when I went for egg collection and stayed In kiev for over 2 weeks , I met many couples there. Our first transfer was negative but everyone else seemed to get positive results. And for me, although I was so happy for them, I kept asking myself why did we get a negative? Why are we the ones that ALWAYS get a negative??! I took it quite hard at that time and felt very low. I can only imagine how you are feeling  

Please don't read my blog or anyone else's success stories if it makes you feel bad, just focus on yourself for now. That is normal, that is ok! When the time comes, you can read the blog or message me and you I'll celebrate with you and share all my tips and advice for everything! I will be so happy for you and happy to do that  

I'm sorry I can't help more with advice about your medicine, except to say that I truely trust the doctors at that clinic. My opinion of them is very high, not because they happened to succeed with us, but because I have personally seen them succeed in very difficult situation where many have failed before. If they are trying something new , it will be for a reason. But if you are unsure, make sure you ask them and challenge them. 

Sending you lots of hugs and love sweet Lotus  

S xx


----------



## Dory10

As has been said before, if you have issues with your clinics or agencies you need to contact them directly

Thank you

Dory
Surrogacy Board Moderator


----------



## Mummytwins

Hi Dory

Forgive me in advance but I'm going to be very honest here. I just wanted to say that I have found this thread to be over moderated. May be I'm wrong. May be I'm not clear about the purpose of forums like this, particularly this one. But I had thought it was a place for people to support each other through sharing of experiences good or bad. But I felt that this thread is moderated in a way that encourages people to share only their good experiences. I would have thought that sharing good experiences would give others hope that they too can also get their good news someday and sharing bad experiences would give others encouragement that they are not alone and more importantly help others to provide advice to the people in need of it. I can understand why you would insist that if people had issues with their clinics they should not share it here but rather should speak directly to their clinic. Well, the truth is that in most cases people would want to seek advice and support here because they had already spoken to their clinic but not gotten the answers they had expected or they were simply having a hard time getting any response from their clinic but not because they wanted to defame the clinic. I personally think that as long as it's not defamatory and it's a factual and honest experience, people should be allowed to share their negative experiences too or to seek support or advice when facing some difficult decisions/experiences. The main reason people would want to share their negative experiences here is to get that community support which is the reason we all signed up and to also get other people's opinion or advice, who had been in similar situations or who may have some good advice to give. Insisting that they should continue to only speak to their clinic under such circumstances takes this community support away from here. Or don't you think? If I was having an issue with my clinic and it is not being resolved as quick as I would want, I would want to know if other people are experiencing the same issue be it with the same clinic or with other clinics; and how they are dealing with it or have dealt with it. I cannot get this support if I am not allowed to share this experience. It is little wonder that this thread has not been as active as it used to be because people now feel they can only share their good news here while those who have no good news to share are kept away.

Like I said, this is just my personal opinion and expectation for a forum like this. At the end of the day, the people who started the thread may have done so for entirely different reasons which may be why it is being moderated the way it is.


----------



## Bella2016

I totally agree with Hope&Pray and would like to also add what a shame it is that the platform you provide here is so one sided and FF filters information in a way that it gives a very biased view of clinics and this puts potential intended parents at risk. Why should a couple not be aware of the bad stories and people's negative experiences, as well as the good ones? I have heard quite a few bad stories about the clinics which are portrayed as 'perfect' here. These stories do not necessarily put me off these clinics, but I would like to have the chance to weigh up the costs and benefits, think about things and do proper research before I make a decision about which clinic I would want to sign up with. It is so important to have 'all' the information.


----------



## Dory10

Caz said:


> Tony Reid said:
> 
> 
> 
> Defamation and Libel
> 
> 1. What are defamation and libel?
> 
> Defamation is any published material that damages the reputation of an individual or an organisation. This covers material on the internet as well as radio and television broadcasts - so even drama and fiction can be defamatory if they damage someone's reputation. You can only publish defamatory material if it comes within one of the recognised legal defences. If it doesn't, the publication will amount to libel and you may have to pay substantial damages.
> 
> Libel online
> 
> Slander is 'defamation by word of mouth'
> Internet sites are not exempt from any libel laws. If you are publishing on the internet you are bound by the same libel laws as print publishers.
> 
> In a significant ruling in 2002, the Australian high court ruled that mining magnate Joseph Gutnick could sue publisher Dow Jones under Australian law for alleged libel online. The judge deemed that the web was no different from newspapers or television.
> 
> In the UK, internet service providers are coming under increasing pressure to close sites containing defamatory allegations. You also have to be careful about the comments others post on your site. There have been cases where individuals have sued online publishers for libel over customer book reviews published on their sites.
> 
> Such developments have implications for freedom of expression.
> 
> The purpose of libel law
> Libel law protects individuals or organisations from unwarranted, mistaken or untruthful attacks on their reputation. A person is libelled if a publication:
> 
> * Exposes them to hatred, ridicule or contempt
> 
> * Causes them to be shunned or avoided
> 
> * Discredits them in their trade, business or profession
> 
> * Generally lowers them in the eyes of right thinking members of society
> 
> For example, MORAL rights campaigner Victoria Gillick recently won a £5,000 settlement and an apology after taking libel action against the Brook Advisory Centre, a charity which gives sex advice to young people, over allegations that Brook had suggested Mrs Gillick "bore a moral responsibility" for an increase in pregnancies among teenagers. A fact sheet published by Brook contained the heading "What caused the teenage conception rate to rise in the 1980s?", and listed a legal action brought by Mrs Gillick against the Department of Health over contraception guidelines as one of the causes.
> 
> 2. Getting facts right
> 
> The most important point is to make absolutely sure that what you are printing or writing is true. Do not make claims or accusations that you cannot prove. Even if you think you can do this, be cautious. Proving things in court can be very difficult.
> 
> And the test of what the words mean is what a reasonable reader is likely to take as their natural and ordinary meaning, in their full context - what you intended as the author or publisher is irrelevant.
> 
> If you write something that cannot be substantiated the credibility of your site, organisation or cause may be questioned. It can also land you with an expensive lawsuit and there is no legal aid for libel cases.
> 
> The burden of proof lies with the defendant
> Almost uniquely in English law, in libel cases the burden of proof lies with the author / publisher and not the complainant. In other words, you have to prove that what you write is true. The person you've targeted does not have to prove that you're wrong.
> 
> McLibel
> In 1990 McDonalds served a libel writ on several members of a campaigning organisation over the production and distribution of the 'What's Wrong with McDonalds?' leaflet. The legal battle between Helen Steel and David Morris, a gardener and a postman, and the McDonalds corporation became one of the most famous cases in British legal history, not least because it became the longest running British trial.
> 
> To win the case, the pair would have to prove from primary sources the truth of their allegations about McDonalds. After hearing all the evidence, the judge (who did find that some of the allegations were true) ruled that the pair had libelled McDonalds because the evidence they called was not enough to prove the majority of their statements. They were ordered to pay damages of £60,000. The trial was estimated to have cost millions of pounds in legal fees.
Click to expand...


----------



## Dory10

I have posted this information regarding defamation and libel just to highlight how important this is when commenting online.

You may feel that the thread or site is over moderated, however we have to ensure that any potentially libellous comments are removed otherwise not only could the poster be held to account but also the whole site. This in turn could result in the forum being closed down and unable to help the thousands of people it does each day.

Fertility Friends isn't a review site, it is not a place for people to leave a one star review because they are unhappy with a particular clinic, hospital or Heath care professional. It is a site to support people suffering from infertility.

The moderation team are all volunteers who give up their time to help ensure Fertility Friends remains up and running. We all have lives, jobs, families but are committed to logging on regularly to make sure things run smoothly and people can access the support they need.

Perhaps this is a good time to reread the posting guidelines which members agree to when joining Fertility Friends.

Dory


----------



## ab55

Dear Dory,
Thank you for all your explanations and your efforts to keep this topic online. Sadly enough, I believe the last posts made people aware they can't support each other the way they wish to. 

Coming back to the moderation aspect, I suggest only the names of clinics or agencies are removed and the rest of the post is left for us all. We only get to read the good experiences with the clinics. That is the reason we went first to a clinic that scammed us and made us lose more than 25K. That is the other effect of over moderation and removal of any bad experiences. 

The last thing: When somebody has a good experience with a clinic there is no issue to post the name. In fact, that is advertisement we should also forbid if we delete the bad experiences. That would be fair for all of the ivf and surrogacy providers. If someone wants to find out more details, they can always PM the person behind the post.


----------



## Dory10

Ab55

Everyone who signs up to FF agrees to the posting guidelines, they are very clear and so if people don't feel that they enable them to access support then that would be apparent from the outset not now just after a reminder has been given.

I will reiterate that Fertility Friends is NOT a review site. When choosing clinics and treatment the only way to ensure it is right for you is to research, make contact, visit and ask questions. It is not an easy or quick decision to be made.

As you state you've had issues with a clinic then I suggest that you contact them directly as they and yourself are the only parties privy to all the facts and information.

You may not be aware that we also remove and edit posts praising clinics. Sadly there are many plants that try to influence posts too.

I have edited the part of your post referencing a previous post that had to be removed as it is not helpful to speculate or drag up past events that have been dealt with.

It would be really helpful now if the thread could focus on supporting members rather than questioning Fertility Friends posting guidelines.

Dory


----------



## AdamWillis

Could someone summarize this post?  A bit hard to go through 94 pages.


----------



## bundles

Not really  This is a forum where people discuss and support, this thread specifically about surrogacy in the Ukraine. Why don't you post a little about your situation & maybe ask some questions. They're a friendly bunch


----------



## Selective

Hi, My DH and I are very interested in BioTexCom in the Ukraine at the moment and looking into their packages.  I have a few questions generally about surrogacy that you might be able to help me with.  It is my one dream to have a girl and I know that the Ukraine do carry out sex selection but is that just for family balancing as we have no children. Can it just be done as a preference when using egg donation?  If sex selection is carried out what do our courts think of that as it is illegal here? Does it affect getting Order from the court?

I looked on the website for getting a UK Passport for a child when out of the country and it says at the moment it takes 10 weeks to get one if you are in the Ukraine but 6 weeks if you are in the USA!!  I can't imagine that my husband would be able to stay all this time in the Ukraine.  Do you ladies plan to stay with the child alone returning to the apartment with the child?  How do you feel about this being in another country on your own?


----------



## Selective

Sorry sounded a bit dramatic there lol. I know that you have the support of the clinic and house keeper but I meant without your partner.


----------



## Selective

Hi, Me again.  I meant to add that I saw on the New Life site for the Ukraine that Surrogacy Law in the Ukraine says the intended mother of the should not be over 51 years old.  I am 50 years old and 51 this October! Does this mean the law covers me through being 51 years old up until I turn 52 years old. Am confused?


----------



## Dory10

Hi Selective

Welcome to the site . You might find it helpful to post your query regarding age and passports on this thread as one of the legal team might be able to advise http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=128923.220

Good luck

Dory


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi Selective

Our baby is due to be born very soon (due date is Nov 8th) and we are British. We have been advised that in international surrogacy cases, the minimum wait time for passports is 16 weeks after submitting the application. You also have to allow a short amount of time to get together some documents in ukriane (register Baby's birth and translate these documents into English. Also getting the surrogates declaration in front of a notary and also translate this). All in all, we expect to be there anywhere from 4.5-6 months. 

UK parents are entitled to get adoption leave (1 of the parents can apply if they qualify) which is a massive help! Originally we thought I would stay out there for some time in the middle by myself. But luckily my husband had been able to make arrangements with his work to carry on working part time whilst he is in Kiev. 

As for Intended parents not being over 50, I know I've seen Intended parents over 50! I've also seen women over 50 have donor egg IVF in Ukraine.

S xx


----------



## Selective

Dory10  Thank you for the info link very useful x

Stilltryingandhoping  It is so exciting for you and your husband to soon be realising your dream.  I am from the UK as well. Do BioTec continue to support their clients in accommodation and food even if the legalities of getting out of the country continue for many weeks?  

Lx


----------



## Candie386

Hi girls .. i have tried ivf 3 times in USA with own eggs.. 2 times egg donation in russia failed and now we decided on surrogacy in Ukraine. with DE of course. . .. we have had so many failures in the past i am just hoping this is the answer for us... I have been told that its about one month to get the passports and all that to go back with the baby to the USA.. is this accurate.. what is the experience of anyone coming back to USA i would just like to know thanks.


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Selective

Yes they provide accommodation and meals for the whole duration of stay. Feel free to message me if you want to ask in more detail or you can ready my blog (likknis im my signature). 

Candie
I have made friends with a number of US couples and yes, you're lucky because US passports take a matter of weeks to process! of course you need to plan for contingencies because there can always be delays. For example, if your baby is born premature or has any health issues, you will not want to move the baby until he/she is well enough to travel. Also, most clinics use the hospital discharge papers to register the birth and get the birth certificate for the baby. Without this, you cannot apply for the baby's passport. So if there is a reason your baby needs to stay in hospital longer, this can delay submitting your application. This is of course a worse case scenario for delays. Most US couples I've spoken to have left 4-6 weeks after the birth of the baby at the most   

S xx


----------



## Candie386

stilltryingandhoping.. thanks so much that is great to hear .. yes i hope there are no medical problems that would prolong the hospital stay..


----------



## Froya59

Hello again. I've read a few last pages and can get why some of you are concerned about forum filters. I for one decided to sign in just to make it easier to choose among wide range of clinics in Ukraine and I would be grateful to find as positive as negative feedback. I understand that it's not a review website and the main aim is support but still some issues may occure throughout the process and knowing about them could be useful. I'm still researching and now only 2 options has left, lotus and biotex. each of them has attractive advantages but I need more time and information to make my decision. At first I met info that biotex has awful communication but it's a clinic and no need to deal with any agency. however, I haven't understood what this mean and how much time it takes to get a reply or update from them. Lotus has "excellent" communication according to it's clients. Well, no wonder because they don't have too many clients. But they deal with private maternity hospitals that are better than state ones in biotex. 
Anyway, if you want to share your experience mentioning the clinic, no matter if it's something good or bad, PM me. Maybe I need to take a closer look to some other agency or clinic

O h and I forgot, I found information about the next biotex webinar. It's going to be tomorrow at 3pm kiev time, I think many of you could find it useful, no matter which clinic you are with, it's about Ukrainian law, paperwork and the process of getting baby passport.

 Edited to remove the clinic advert, any open days or information evenings need to be posted in the events section of FertilityFriends here's a link http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=109.0


----------



## Selective

Hi Froya59,  My husband is going to be accessing the webinar tomorrow with Bio as I will be at work.  Looking forward to gaining some more insight into the process.  We too are at the beginning and looking into clinics. x


----------



## Perez

Fine! Hope it’ll be so.  as I see they love to hold such sessions, well, why not? If it benefits. 
Hardly believe I’ll participatein webinar bu afraid I’ll be late and too busy at work. 
Write something, please, if find it useful 
good luck xxx and TYIA Dear


----------



## Lilly08

Hi everyone! I hope you are doing well!
As Froya said, there is going to be a webinar today. I think it is about babies' registration in Ukraine. Link is in the clinic's ******** page.
I think it will be very useful.
Good luck! x


----------



## BunnyLola

Hello, people, how are your experiences with egg donation in biotex Ukraine? I am waiting to have this journey and very excited. I am going there in 2 weeks. My best friend succeeded from the first time. I love that clinic and how they behaved with us when we came.


----------



## Perez

Adding to previous discussing I have to admit biotex should change the format of their video conversations. It looked a little bit old-fashioned and boring. Actually, I guess It mustn’t be as an entertaining event but some elements of the webinar seemed uncomfortable for my perception. 
Although there was a couple of curious questions and answers on them and it gives hope.  Someone has to give them a hint maybe to improve their channels of providing info. Anastasia has the potential to be a good speaker as she is able to give quick responses and knows the subject effectively. It would be better if their editors created something new.


----------



## BunnyLola

Haven't noticed that if I may admit  Maybe I am totally crazy for everything to go well, that I didn't realize such details  What is your problem, why are you here? Hope you found a solution for your problem, if you have one


----------



## Froya59

Thank you Stilltryingandhoping. I think we will end up with biotexcom, among others they definitely have more advantages and poor communication is not an issue for me. The most important is the result anyways. Need to talk to my boss to have a few days off andagree on the day of our visit. Maybe it's going to be in mid November if everything goes well. Still hesitating which package to choose, considered vip but as we don't need sex selection maybe standard would be better and more reasonable taking the cost into account. We'll see however.


----------



## BunnyLola

Why do you think they have a poor conversation? I didn't have such experience... I wish you all the best!


----------



## Selective

My husband would like to stay with me in Kiev over the time it would take to get a passport for the child so that we could all leave together.  I would be leaving my job to look after the child but is it possible for him to take maternity/surrogacy leave for months and still be paid by his employer if it is a private arrangement of surrogacy in another country?

x


----------



## BunnyLola

I am not sure. Why don't you contact the clinic directly? They have a great customer support and they always reply fast.


----------



## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi selective

If you're British parents, one parent may be entitled to adoption payand leave 

S xx


----------



## BunnyLola

Is here a topic about egg donation? Because I am going to the same destination in a week. We decided to choose the frozen eggs. Can you relate me to the same people here, please?


----------



## Dory10

Bunnylola are you using donor eggs and a surrogate or using donor eggs but transferring the embryos to you? There is a donor egg section but the ladies on there aren't using surrogates, this area is the surrogacy one where you'll find a mix of people using their own and donor eggs.


----------



## ttc_adventure

Hi all,
Just after a bit of advice - our surrogate is 18 weeks pregnant but has been hospitalised with 'tonus' of the uterus. From what I can gather I think it's tension/contraction like pains which is rather worrying. Not much info online about it and just wondered if anyone else had any experience of this with their SM?

Many thanks,
Emma


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## BunnyLola

Dory10 the donor eggs but transferred into me. About the mother who said that her surrogacy had the contractions and the 18th week, it can be easily stopped, don't worry, she will get the right medication. What happened?


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## Mummytwins

ttc_adventure
I'm not an expert and I hadn't heard about this condition before but reading your message I did a quick research and from what I've read, it doesn't always end bad if it's managed well. The good thing is that they have got her into hospital and I am sure they will give her the right treatment. I know its easy for anyone not in ur shoes to say this, but try to relax knowing there is nothing you can personally do yourself. I am praying for you and hoping it's good news in the end. We are also at our 18 weeks and I van understand your worries at this stage especiallly when u have heard such news about your surrogate. Our surrogate was supposed to have her scan this Friday but yesterday our coordinator messaged me to say the doctor had decided to do the scan today instead of wait till Friday. They didn't tell me why so I'm just anxious but hoping it's not because any thing has gone wrong.


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## Dory10

*Bunnylola* in that case you'd find the donor egg treatment area more useful, here's a link http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=551.0. As this area is for surrogacy which you're not undertaking.


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## ttc_adventure

Hope&Pray thank you so much for your reply and prayers. You're right, it's just so hard but I'm trying to have faith and positivity that they are taking precautions and all will be okay. Our SM had another scan today and although she should be approaching 19 weeks, she's still measuring at 18, so there has been no growth in the last few days. I'm obviously now freaking out about that but they did detect a heartbeat so just holding onto that to get me through. 

Huge congratulations to you being at 18 weeks and I know it's easy to say but also hope you're not worrying too much about the scan being brought forward. Have you heard from them? Really keeping everything crossed it's good news. 

Fingers crossed for March 2018!


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## Mummytwins

ttc - That the heartbeat was detected I think is a good sign so let's hold on to that for an overall positive outcome. Hopefully it will catch up with growth and it's just a temporary hitch.
Yes, we've had our scan today and everything is fine.
I'm keeping fingers and everything crossed for you 😊


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## Lilly08

Hi ladies.. Hope  you are doing well!
@BunnyLola I will try surrogacy with egg donation at biotex too. Yaryna will explain everything. Just make sure you prepare the questions you have in advance so then you will get all the information you need.
We have already chosen the donor. Was easier than expected. Everything will be alright, don't worry  
Good luck in your first appointment


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## Meryl686

Hi,
we attended on the 12-week scan and "saw"our twins. I still can not believe it is real.

Lilly08 hopes this attempt will be successful!  

Good luck to everyone!


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## Lilly08

Hi @Meryl686 welcome to the forum! Thank you for your wishes. We are waiting for our surrogate mother to be matched. Hopefully it will be done soon. I'm also getting ready to travel to Ukraine again.
Congratulations on your twins!  It's great news!
Wish you a happy pregnancy and healthy babies!


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## Biabella

Hello, everyone! Unfortunately our first attempt was negative... I couldn’t believe it, I still can’t... We had good quality embryos, the SM uterus and endometrium were perfect. Now I’ m scared that maybe our embryos just look good and develop normally in the lab, but they could have internal problems that made my endometrium and now also the SM’s reject them... 
Our next attempt is FET, but we no longer hope for a positive result. We regret not having done PGD or PGS... Did any of you do PGD at Biotexcom? When I asked my coordinator about it, I got the impression they avoid doing it...


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## Lilly08

Hi @biabella.. so sorry to know that 
I'm afraid I have no idea about PDG.. or if it is done at biotex. Maybe someone else here can answer this? 
Anyway good luck in your FET.. I know it's easier said than done, but try to keep hopeful and positive. 
I hope you will have good news soon. Blessings x


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## Mummytwins

Hi Biabella

So sorry to hear of your negative result. But don't you lose hope about your FET. I've known a number of people who didn't succeed with a fresh transfer but did with a frozen one and went on to have their healthy babies. So hang in there and we are all rooting for you  

As for PGD, this may not make any meaning to you because we are not with the same clinic as you but we did have PGD with our clinic. Whether it was all down to the PGD or it was a combination of different factors we may never know. But what we do know is that we (our surrogate of course!) achieved pregnancy at the first attempt and she is currently 23 weeks gone with twins. With PGD our clinic can transfer only a maximum of two embryos because of the increased chance of success. But without PGD they can transfer up to three. So in our own case we had two transferred and both implanted and are growing well so far. As far as I can remember from my earlier communication with Biotexcom when we were trying to choose a clinic, they do offer PGD but it depends on the package you have chosen. It is included in the more expensive packages and we did ask them at the time but they said you cannot choose PGD as an add-on if you have already chosen the lower cost package. This was based on my conversation with them but if you are very keen on having PGD I would suggest you go back to them and make sure they understand your concerns and your desire and hopefully they can offer a solution or they can explain their offers a bit more to you.

Wishing you the best of luck for your coming FET


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## Biabella

Thank you all for the beautiful words and your support!

Lilly08, I hope you will succeed from the first attempt! Good luck!

Hope&Pray, I’m happy things went so good for you! Reading your post, I wish even more we did PGD... 

When we signed the economic contract we were convinced that the cause of our IVF failures was my uterus, so we didn’t insist much about PGD, but they told us we could do it and pay separately. When the kariotypes results came back, mine was normal, and my husband’s also normal, but with polymorphism of chromosome 21. They said it’s been proven it doesn’t affect IVF outcome. We wanted PGD anyway,  but our coordinator said there was no need to spend all that money because there are tests we can do once SM pregnant to know if the baby is healthy, tests that cost less than PGD... I asked repeatedly about PGD and when my husband came in Ukraine he asked too... She repeated the same things every time, but always gave us the impression they avoid it... Now we also regret not signing standard contract, but who could have known things would go this way?...


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## Mummytwins

Biabella

We did consider the two options as well but our clinic recommended PGD, saying it would be better to spend the amount and have rest of mind than going through with a pregnancy and finding out later on in the pregnancy that the baby is not healthy then there would be the option of either terminating it or ending up with a sick baby. We agreed with them and so we chose the PGD option. But each clinic is different and they know what works best for them.

Thinking about our own PGD now (gosh it's been a while now!), I just remembered that when the result came back, all our embryos were normal. So what it did basically was reassure us that they were normal and of good quality. Which means that without the PGD it was possible that we could have still achieved the same outcome. So, don't beat yourself up if you can't have it. Let's hope your forthcoming FET is successful and that you have your healthy baby(ies)


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## Biabella

Thank you, Hope&Pray! Is wonderful that all your embryos were healthy!😍

I’ll just have to live with the doubt about ours... All we can do now is wait to see the outcome of the FET.  Hopefully will be positive, if not, we’ll decide with the clinic what’s best to do next...

Good luck to everyone!


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## Lilly08

Hi ladies.
Good to know, @Hope&Pray. That was very helpful!  Thanks for sharing it. Having twins would be great, I hope things go well for us at least with 1 of the embryos.
Thank you @biabella, I hope so too. Yesterday we got the confirmation that our surrogate mother was matched. We are going to start the stimulation next week.
DH and I are very excited and willing to go through this as fast as possible. We haven't tell our son yet. 
Big hugs and blessings to all of you x


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## Biabella

Good luck, Lilly!🤞🤞🤞
I hope you will get your Christmas miracle! 🙏


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## Lilly08

Hi everyone! 
Thank you @biabella..! I hope so!
We are going to biotex again in two weeks    Trying to manage my schedule and DH's and DS's exams :S
And thinking how to approach this topic of surrogacy...
How are you doing? Did you begin FET?
Hope everything is going well.
Big hug x


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## Biabella

Lately I didn’t have any update from my coordinator... Last time I spoke with her she said they will be very busy in December, but she didn’t say anything about January, so I think maybe in January or February will do our FET... At first I was disappointed because I wanted it to be done the soonest possible, but now I made peace with it, I just hope when it will be done, will be successful.🙏


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## lotus123

Hello to everyone!

I haven't been written there for ages...
Now i have decided to share my experience, however it isn't positive till now.
In November we had our 4th attempt. Received 4 blasts. 3 were transferred... but we haven't received pregnancy again...    
Till now nowbody from doctors can't explain the purpose of so many failures... with such anamnesis as ours which gived in theory rater high percentage probability ... but already 4 failed attempts...
So now we aren't positive and don't know what to do next...

Good luck to everybody!


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## Loumia

Hello all

I've been reading this thread for some time now and thinking more and more, that surrogacy in Ukraine might be right for us. Ive been reading the posts on the thread and been happy about the good updates and sad about the unhappy ones - and feel that I know you all a bit by now. Id love to hear any insight from those of you who allready has valuable experiences to share.

Which clinics to consider? And which agency (if any)? Maybe by pm if you dont want to share in public?

Biotex gets mentioned a lot and has a guaranteed package - but not everyone seems completely happy either.
And there there is Intersono, Nadya and Adonis. Any recomandations? Id love to hear from someone who had positive or negative experiences (or know of any stories about them). I'd be thankful for any information at this point. We'll be taking a last loan in our house after spending thousands and thousands on fertility treatment over the past years and there is no room for any mistakes at this point.


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## Lilly08

@Loumia, Hi! welcome to the forum. Ukraine is really good for surrogacy. I disagree with you about Biotexcom because we are really happy with them. I went to Kiev a week ago (my second visit) and we started our surrogate and egg donor stimulation. Everything is going well as planned. We are 100 per cent satisfied with their services so far. I highly recommend them.
Their packages are very affordable.. They also offer different prices. You don't have to pay all the amount at the beginning, but per stage. We choose the VIP package which includes almost everything. There is a standard package too. Both provide you unlimited attempts so it's really good.
I read dull comments about Intersono. Haven't heard about Nadya and Adonis at all. 
Feel free to ask me if you have any question. We are  in the first stages of surrogacy but I will try to help as much as I can.
Good luck in your search x


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## Lilly08

lotus123 said:


> Hello to everyone!
> 
> I haven't been written there for ages...
> Now i have decided to share my experience, however it isn't positive till now.
> In November we had our 4th attempt. Received 4 blasts. 3 were transferred... but we haven't received pregnancy again...
> Till now nowbody from doctors can't explain the purpose of so many failures... with such anamnesis as ours which gived in theory rater high percentage probability ... but already 4 failed attempts...
> So now we aren't positive and don't know what to do next...
> 
> Good luck to everybody!


Hi @biabella how have you been? Yes, December is too busy for almost everything. I've been trying to book a flight to visit my parents and most of dates are sold out. I was busy with my trip and preparations. 
I was lucky to have my appointment arranged at biotex last week. I just came from there. Everything is going well. We are really happy and hopeful. Once we finish the stimulation, we will do the embryo transfer and wait.. 
Wish you all the best in your FET.. January or February are usually less crowded.
Hi @lotus123.. sorry to know that  it's really sad. I'm very sorry. Is there anything else you can try? Second opinion? Don't give up, please. Sending you a big hug and a lot of hope!
Have a nice weekend x


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## Selective

We are going to Ukraine in the new year and I am probably overthinking things at the moment!!  I read that egg donors and potential surrogate mothers are tested for HIV at the start of treatment but what about throughout the pregnancy? Is the child tested at birth for HIV? Am I overthinking this and worrying over nothing?


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## Perez

Greetings! The following info’s going to be for those who consider or already chose biotexcom’s offers. As I recently found out they are about to revoke the type of contracts called Economy because of overbooking as I could understand from video announce and some talks. 
However, they’ve got a limited number of such packages which have to be sold before the winter holidays. so go ahead and it’s up to us 
I really know nothing about a probable resumption of providing the economy ones. I believe the news of it will be coming out as soon as they see fit to convey


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## Perez

Selective said:


> We are going to Ukraine in the new year and I am probably overthinking things at the moment!! I read that egg donors and potential surrogate mothers are tested for HIV at the start of treatment but what about throughout the pregnancy? Is the child tested at birth for HIV? Am I overthinking this and worrying over nothing?


Husband is also tested before the main procedure. And if it calms the surrogate will have a blood test almost every month. I hope they check each sample for viruses. The baby's health is the most significant thing but I suppose nurses and other medical staff worry about their own safety as well and they do something to avoid bad consequences.


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## Lilly08

Perez said:


> Greetings! The following info's going to be for those who consider or already chose biotexcom's offers. As I recently found out they are about to revoke the type of contracts called Economy because of overbooking as I could understand from video announce and some talks.
> However, they've got a limited number of such packages which have to be sold before the winter holidays. so go ahead and it's up to us
> I really know nothing about a probable resumption of providing the economy ones. I believe the news of it will be coming out as soon as they see fit to convey


Hi everyone, I hope you are doing well.. Although I haven't written anything for a while, I'm reading you and sending you good vibes. Best of luck! 
@Perez.. that's true. Anastasia told us that as well. It's great you shared it so others can benefit from it. 
We have already signed for a VIP package which includes almost everything.
Where are you going to biotex? I might travel on January, God willing.
x


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## Dory10

. Sadly I've had to remove some comments this morning as they've not followed the site posting guidelines. As has had to be pointed out many times before on this thread, the area of liebel is extremely sensitive and has to be taken seriously. By signing up to FertilityFriends you agree to follow these posting guidelines. If you don't it may result in your membership being revoked. We have to keep this a supportive and friendly site for all. A shame this grumpy message has to come at Christmas. Thank you to all those that strive to keep this a supportive and helpful environment.

Please also avoid using the quote function where it's not needed, it clogs up threads making them harder to follow and isn't necessary when your replying to a person one or two comments in front of you.

Thanks


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## Biabella

Hi, everyone! I have good news! After all, they did our FET in December, we think that’s a Christmas miracle because it was completely unexpected and, most important, it was POSITIVE!!! We are very happy but still nervous, the ultrasound will be done on 11th of January, so until then we can only hope everything is ok with our baby.🙏
Lilly, I’m expecting good news from you, I thought your ET would be done this month... But I see that you will be going in Ukraine in January... I’m sending you good vibes and wishes for good luck!🙏
😘😘😘🍀🍀🍀


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## Maya2016

Dear Biabella, Congratulations on the positive result! I wish you a very happy New Year  and good news on 11th of January!


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## lotus123

Happy new year!!!

Biabella, congratulations!!!! How many frozen embryos were transferred and with which grade?


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## Mummytwins

Massive congratulations, Biabella. We told you so, didn't we? Super happy for you! Enjoy the ride and I hope it's super smooth for you


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## Biabella

Thank you, Maya, Lotus and Hope&Pray!
They transferred 2 embryos with AB4 quality... But we think only one implanted because the HCG was only 225. We just hope and pray our little one is ok! 🙏 We have one more week until the ultrasound...


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## Biabella

Happy new year, everyone! 🍀🍀🍀


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## Perez

for Biabella
I think You’ve got a whole day up to the ultrasound? Many happy congratulations to you!! I hope you feel alright and your little lovely pea is growing well and feeling well too. 
It’s the best beginning of the year that just can be imagined. Great luck and lots of love to your family! 
XXXXX


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## RonaldWatson

Hello! I'm new at here, although I've read the topic for a long time. As well, when there's such a live forum like this one. People here share useful information, when the new story is laid out everyone is going through it! Now, after a while I can share my story and experience. Right away I'll say that it was positive for me. Many people write that they made a decision for a long time, were treated, they were looking for a suitable surrogate clinic. We have a very simple story. After being diagnosed that I couldn't have a children we immediately decided that we would be looking for a surrogate motherhood clinic. And this one we have found https://www.mother-surrogate.com/, oddly enough, in Ukraine. Professor Feskov helped us a lot, we didn't expect that everything will be so fast! Of course, now I want to share my experience very much and wish those who didn't dare to succeed don't be afraid, twirl and everything will turn out.


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## Biabella

Perez, thank you so much!
I didn’t have time to write, we had our first ultrasound two weeks ago and today we had the second one. Everything looks fine, we’re gonna have a baby. 👶 🙏
Good luck to all of you!🍀🍀🍀
😘😘😘


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Hi everyone! 

I haven't written for a long time. 

Biabella a massive congratulations and also to anyone else who have missed. I am going to take time to go back through the thread and read everything! 

We went to Kiev mid October and unfortunately I cannot access fertility friends when I'm out there. We had our baby boy born through surrogacy!! He was quite sick to begin with and it was a terrible time for us, but we for through it and after seeing how our clinic supported us and also the amazing paediatricians we were able to get there, we have made a very brave decision. 

We have decided to try for a sibling!!! So a few days ago we signed a second package and now we wait! 

We managed to navigate the passport process in a kiev with the help of an immigration expert which was actually needed as we applied for it as an emergency as our son was sick. But if all is well with the baby, we now know we can do it ourselves too  

We are applying for the parental order now and our application has been sent off. I will share all the information of it on my blog when we have gotten further with the process so others may read how it works. It's always good to know exactly what happens after someone has been through it. 

I'm so excited to be trying for a second baby, and very nervous too. All good wishes, positive thoights and prayers welcome!! 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

S xx


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## Perez

hello
I'm a little confused about a thing. There plenty of clinics and agencies in Ukraine =. As I supposed one agency may work with two or three competing facilities. is the agency a property of the clinic or it's separate from it? So, how do agencies decide which clinic is better for our case.. 
As well I know there are clinics that don’t use agency as a legal helper and carry out the whole program on their own. 
Which type of organization is more reasonable to choose?


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## Stilltryingandhoping

Perez most agencies have a preferred clinic but yes some work with a few. 

The clinic we are with is called BioTexCom and they have their own in house agency. 

It's up to you to decide which one is better for you, it's based on what is important to you. It's a very personal decision. Some people may favour one thing and someone else another.

For us, we compared all the clinics and the main thing that made us decide on BioTexCom was their packages. It made me feel secure knowing this we could - 

1- account for the cost and know exactly what we were looking at financially without any surorises!!
2- The pressure was off a tiny little bit knowing we just had to carry on and we were guaranteed a baby.
3- They did everything in house and I preferred this .

But that's after a lot of research and making sure we looked at things that were important to us.

S xx


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## Perez

It was invaluable for me @Stilltryingandhoping! I highly appreciate this! I wish you all the best, continued sound health for you and your sweet family! xxx


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## Dory10

surrogacy in Ukraine Part 2 can be found here http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=390586.new#new


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