# Dilemma: thaw 2 or 4??



## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi

We're starting our first FET (medicated) - d/r today.  I was quite shocked today as the nurse said that we can either  a) defrost 2, and then if they don't survive will have to start tx over again, or b) defrost the 4, which obviously means that if all survive, we will lose 2.  With our only 'full' IVF cycle, only 2 survived (from a fresh cycle) then, from about the same number of eggs, so I'm thinking, going on those stats, we should go for all 4.  

Anyone any ideas based on your own experiences?  From reading other messages on this subject, looks like other hospitals have different procedures, i.e. only thaw as needed - but we are with an NHS hospital so I'm guessing this must be why they are doing it this way..

Grateful for any help

BH xx


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## Flopsy (Sep 18, 2003)

Hi BH,

We had a FET cycle at a NHS hospital and they were able to thaw 2 and then another 2 for us. In the end we ended with with 3 which is OK as I am over 40.

It is worth double checking with them why they cannot thaw on demand as it was done so very easily elsewhere and the nurse may not have the right story. Ask to speak to one of the embryologists instead.

Hope that all goes OK!

Kindest regards,


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## Cecilie (Jul 27, 2005)

HI BH

I agree with Flopsy - seems very odd that they can't thaw 2 and then 2. Usually the restrictions relate only to the number of embies per "straw" - ie, if they've been frozen in 4s then obviously you have to thaw 4.

My clinic defrosted a straw of 2 first, of which only 1 survived, then a straw of 3, of which 2 survived. They take minutes to thaw, so there's no waiting involved. It makes no sense that you don't get to thaw gradually.

Good luck - I hope it's a misunderstanding and that you don't really have to make this Hobson's choice.... 

Cecilie x


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## Salties (Aug 27, 2004)

Hi BH

We are in the middle of a FET too.  Today we had our final scan to check all ok.  We have 6 frosties, and were told that the clinics policy is 2 thaw 3 and pick the best 2.  If only 2 survive they will thaw another 1, so they can be sure they pick the best 2 to transfer.  We are also going to have ours hatched to give us the best chance possible.

I think you should ask your clinic to run through it again.

Good Luck

Salties


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## TerriP (Apr 15, 2004)

BH
Don't know if this will help, but on my last fet I had 3 frosties - 2 in one straw, 1 in the other.  My clinic thawed all 3 in the hope that they would transfer the BEST 2.  Their philosophy being to give you the best chance at getting pregnant, not the most number of goes.
Terri


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## Anthony Reid (Jan 1, 2002)

May I ask what clinic this is?

Tony
x


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Thanks v much for all of your responses which were very helpful.  I will definitely call the hospital again, in case the nurse got it wrong - she did say though that I would need to make the decision because they thaw the frosties the night before...!?  The clinic is St Marys, Manchester.  

thanks again and best of luck to all
BH x


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

Hi

Sorry I came across this thread and had to reply. My consultant told us the same. We had E/T postponed in November as I was at risk of OHSS. We have 11 Frosties waiting and we hope to continue with FET next month. My consultant said as this was our first time it would be best to thaw 2 frosties. I asked what would happen if the thawing was unsuccessful and he said that would be the end of our first 'free NHS' attempt and we would have to go through treatment again and this would be classed as a separate treatment. I thought this was strange also. Surely if the first two didn't thaw successfully they could thaw a further two frosties there and then? As I said this is our first time with fertility treatment so feel a bit vulnerable when questioning a fertility expert. Our treatment is being carried out at Regional Fertility Centre, Belfast

LOL

Emma xxx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Emma,

Thanks for your post.  Sorry to hear that you also had your ET postponed, it's frustrating to say the least      Great that you've got 11 frosties though!  

I've just actually spoken with the embryologist today, so feel a bit better about my dilemma and understand it a bit more.

At my clinic, they'll thaw 2 the day before ET.  Then, if 1 or both don't survive the thaw that night, they'll thaw another 1 or 2 (frozen singularly).  The worry is then obviously if they do go on to divide and survive for ET the next day.  She said that the success rate for thawing is 70%.  I told her of my worry that there wouldn't be any at all for ET, and she said that you'd have to be very unlucky for this to happen - and that it would be a shame to say now to thaw all 4 upfront, and then waste 2.  She's going on my history - and that we had 2 good embies transferred last time (unfortunately BFN), and recommends we go with 2 to start.  I hope this makes sense...

I think it would be beneficial for you to have another chat with your consultant or embryologist.  It's so difficult to take everything in, there and then, and sometimes better once you've had a chance to think about it.  Surely they didn't mean that your first free NHS attempt would be over, if just 2 don't survive the thaw - when you've actually got 11 frosties?  I know at our clinic that all frosties from one cycle actually counts as 'one complete cycle' so your 11 should be the same I would have thought!!?  

Will you be having a natural or a medicated FET?

BH xx


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

Hi BH

Thanks for explaining everything. You're right it is such a daunting experience I will be sure to question this when we go back. We are having a medicated FET is there any difference in success rates between natural and medicated? I am feeling very frustrated and impatient now to get the ball rolling again. Unfortunately as wonderful as they are in the RFC in Belfast I have had to ring several times in the past because they have 'forgot' to send out appointment letters or misplaced our file. I know they do a great job but sometimes I feel so stressed by the whole experience and this is only our 1st attempt! Sorry for that little rant there!! Got that off my chest!!!

Sorry to hear about your -ve. I hope the d/r is going as well as can be expected. How long do you have to d/r for a med FET? I d/r at the start of tx before it was postponed for 34 days!! Would it be as long for FET?

Sorry for all the questions!!! Good Luck and hope to speak to you soon

LOL

Emma xxx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Emma,

Not sure on the success rates for both - I've read conflicting things.  I'm not sure a natural would work for me though anyway, as when i've used the ovulator sticks before, they haven't worked (and yet I do ovulate!)*!?  

Good that you're being proactive with your clinic, sounds like you need to be (and feel free to rant as much as you like - that's what this site is for!    )

I'm new to this med FET, but I've now been d/r for 2 weeks I think - and apparently keep injecting until ET.  Seems a long time, particularly as I did the short IVF protocol the last 2 times.  I've now started on oestrogen tablets, to build the lining of the womb and this dose increases in a couple of days.  I then have a scan next week to check the lining.

Do you know when you can start yet?

BH xx


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

Morning BH

How are you today? I rang my clinic last Tuesday and they promised to get back to me, of course didn't hear a thing!!! Rang again on Monday and apparently there was an admin error and my details were put on the 'Private' waiting list and not the 'nhs' so they retrieved my details and promised to send my chart out in the post on Monday. Of course yesterday and today there is an unofficial postal strike in Belfast so still waiting! Is this a sign!!!!  

So can't do much until I get the chart. AF is due on 3rd Feb and can feel her working so hopefully things will start moving again. Should get the chart by the end of the week - everything crossed!!!!!

Good luck with your scan next week     let me know how you get on and hopefully I'll have more of an update too!!!  

Take care 


Emma xxx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Emma,

How are you?  Any more news?  Can't believe all the admin errors at your clinic - it's so frustrating isn't it!  Did you get your chart through?

I had my scan and my heart was in my mouth for a couple of hours, because although the lining of my womb was fine, they discovered I had a 9cm cyst on my right ovary so didn't know if the doctors would want to continue.  I had suffered before with cysts and they've gone ahead..but they still wanted to check.  Anyway thankfully they gave me the go ahead so I was really relieved.  FET is now 22nd (backlog because only one incubator working in the lab!) so I don't start the cyclogest until next Sunday.  I'm so thankful I have a date though and am now just praying that the frosties survive..

Let me know how things are with you?

Take care, BH xx


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

Morning BH

What a lovely day it is too (not!)

I'm sure your nerves were away with it when you had your scan. I'm so sorry to hear about your cyst but I'm glad your doc gave you the go ahead you must be so relieved and excited. 22nd isn't that far off and I will say a prayer for your little snowbabies    

As for me NO CHART as yet because the feckin postal strike is still on!!! AF arrived on the 7th Feb so I rang my clinic,spoke to the head of admin and she took all the details she needed over the phone. She has now sent these details to the nursing staff who will contact me by mobile and let me know the next step!!! Can't believe how much having a postal strike messes everything up!!!!

This is my first FET so not too sure what to expect. I was very frustrated last week as I didn't want to miss this month's opportunity. The chart has been sent out but the post has not been processed in the sorting office so just have to rely on the nursing staff contacting me by phone. I will torture them if I haven't heard from them this week unfortunately that's what you have to keep doing with my clinic. Once you get over the initial admin hurdle the docs etc are wonderful so I am nervous but looking forward to going through it and having our snowbabies back with us - hopefully. We haven't told anyone we are starting the FET. Everyone knew about the tx first time round but I was sick of the constant questions (God how awful do I sound!) although they were all so supportive I just had enough so we have told everyone that the clinic is waiting on funding and we won't be considered for a few months yet. I feel less stressed funnily enough now its just the two of us going through it!

Anyway may go and do a bit of work, i'm skivving as usual!!!

Talk to you soon and GOod Luck I'm thinking of you love   

Emma xxx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Emma,

Good to hear things are moving in the right direction for you!  I think I started the FET by d/r from day 21 - is it the same for you?  I've been injecting since 17th Jan - I think if it wasn't for problems in the lab and consequently causing delays, I would have had my transfer today!  I hope the lining of my womb is remaining thick enough...  This is our first FET too.  My last 2 IVF cycles have been on the short protocol, so this medicated FET seems alot longer in comparison.  At least you don't have to visit the hospital as much though, as not monitoring follies, so it does feel slightly different.

Since our first IVF cycle BFN in June last year, I've also decided not to tell friends that we're going thru' tx.  I think some of them have kind of guessed but I've made it clear I don't always want to discuss it and will let them know anything when there is something to know.  They understand anyway - and I think it does take the pressure off doesn't it.

Hope you're having a good week.
bye for now
love BH x


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

Hi BH

How are you love? hope you are ok. Yes I am the same I will be d/r from Day 21 which is (27th Feb). I will be on the dreaded nasal spray again and tablets so I'm not too sure how long that lasts for. I have been in constant contact with the clinic by phone because of the postal strike but I am lucky enough that I live near the hospital and work approx 5 mins away from it so I can collect my drugs etc pretty easily. So ball will be rolling again this month and I can't wait to get started. God you have been injecting for a life time I am sure you are fed up now especially with the hold up for e/t. Don't worry I am sure everything is going fine and it won't be long before i'll be chatting to you when you are on your 2WW!! 

Have a good day and hope to speak to you soon

LOL

Emma xxx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Emma,

How are you?  Not long before you start d/r now!

I'm absolutely dreading calling the hospital tomorrow to find out if any of our 4 frosties have survived...but I know it has to be done.  Anyway, will keep you posted.  I'm scared to think much past that phone call...in case..

Must dash.  Hope you're ok.

love BH x


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

Well BH  

How are you? Did you make the dreaded phonecall? What did they say? I hope it's good news. I said a wee prayer for your embies last night   

Let me know how you get on.

Take care  

Emma xxx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Emma,

Thanks so much for your support. 

Phew, so relieved to have gotten this far, although of course I'm having to go through the dreaded 2WW (or 2.5 ww as it seems in my case!).  I rang to be told that out of the 4 frosties, they had had to thaw 3, so we lost 1, and had 2 transferred.  Both were cell 4 top grade.  I did bleed on day 11 after the last transfer back in June (fresh cycle) so am worried that it'll happen again.  I already feel as though I have slight feelings of AF now...but I'm hoping that obviously it's not that so soon and maybe other cramps..

Any news for you?

Take care,
BH xx


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## crusoe (Jun 3, 2005)

dear BH

Hope no one minds me posting here ( I normally post on abroadies) I have been following your story because like you I have 4 frosties that I will be using in 10 days or so. 
I was so relieved today to read that 3 out of your 4 survived and 2 have been safely transferred.

I just wanted to wish you well for your 2 ww and send you some positive vibes   

love crusoe
x


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Crusoe,

Thx for your message.  It always helps to read about others in the same situation doesn't it and I'm really glad I was able to report positive news!  I was so worried as had never had a FET before but the fact that we still got 2 top grade embies was such a relief.  

I wish you all the very best in the thaw process and beyond, and sending you lots of positive vibes too    

Let's hope it continues positively for both of us.  Let me know how you get on?

Take care
BH xx


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

BH

I'm absolutely delighted that you have 2 fantastic embies back with you I really hope your 2WW is going smoothly. I have never been on a 2WW so I can't give you any advice but there is nothing I can say anyway as everybody reads into every twinge as a sign and if they don't feel anything then that is a sign also! You can't win - human nature I suppose that's why everyone goes    on the 2WW. All I can do is try and support you as best I can and if you are feeling sad, angry, happy then feel free to share your feelings. Are you setting up a diary in the 2WW Diary thread?

Well I started the dreaded nasal spray yesterday. Have to take prognova? (bad spell!) in a couple weeks and hopefully e/t on the 30th March so if I'm lucky enough to get that far I will be    in a few weeks time!   

All I can say is try and enjoy your 2WW if possible!!! I have everything crossed for you this time love       

Crusoe - Good luck with thawing and e/t I hope it goes well for you also. Stay in touch and let us know how you get on   

Take care girls and hope to speak to you soon  

Emma xxx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Emma!  

Gr8 that things are moving ahead for you.  I don't know what the nasal spray is like - I've always injected Buserelin when d/r.  Do you have to 'sniff' every night?  How do you know how much??

Just wondering if you managed to talk to your clinic about thawing embies (as we'd discussed earlier on).  You'd mentioned that you thought they'd just thaw 2 - did you clear that up?  If it's the same as my clinic, they'll thaw 2, and then if needs be, will thaw more on the same evening.  I would have thought that you'll definitely get more FETs from your 11 lovely frosties too, under the same NHS 'go'.

I'm doing ok, although going a bit  .  I'm worried that I don't feel pg..but then I don't know how that feels so will just try to calm down!  I haven't set up a 2WW diary, although I should think it probably helps.

Well, hope your sniffing goes ok - and you'll be on the 2WW in no time!!  

lol
BH    xx


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

Hi BH

The sniffing is horrible - leaves a nasty taste in the back of the throat and gives me bad headaches. I have to sniff once each nostril twice a day 12 hrs apart. I sniff at 8.30am & 8.30pm. This will continue for approx 2-3 wks. I will still be sniffing when I am on the tablets. I stop sniffing the day I go for my scan to check the thickness of the lining of my womb. After that its tabs only. No injecting this time round. I didn't actually mind injecting, well my DH didn't mind, he had a glint in his eyes   when he had to 'stab' me   

When I had to collect my drugs I spoke to the nurse and she was far more informative than my consultant she broke everything down really easily because I thought and my DH thought the same because of the way it was explained that by thawing 2 and not getting any live embryos that is the end of treatment. We were going to change our consent form to thawing 4 in order to give us a better chance. Turns out they thaw two at a time and they will keep on thawing until such times as they get two 'live embryos' they will not end treatment after two being thawed. So we could get 2 live on first go or they may need to thaw another 2 or 4 or whatever but they will keep thawing as it only takes a couple of minutes to thaw. I was so relieved when she explained everything. She did say we still have time to change the consent form if we want as the first two live embryos may not be the strongest so we can decide to thaw more and pick the best 2. I'm not sure if I want to risk this first time round we may lose a lot of good embryos so we are going for the first two live ones, I hope they are good quality, everything crossed xxx

So that's it in a nutshell trying to stay positive and trying to take it all in my stride. I know when it gets closer to making that phonecall to see what we got I will be a nervous wreck!!!!!   

When is your test date? 10th march? I'm sure the nails are bitten down by now and the hair is coming out in clumps and that's just your hubby's!!!   

Good luck and I really hope you get a BFP!!!! Positive things happen to positive thinkers!!!!

Take care

Emma xxx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Emma,

That's sounds a good plan re: thawing.  We did the same.  I spoke with the embryologist about it and she advised it was the best thing to do, based on our last go.  Yes, having to make that phone call is really awful - you almost have to just do it robotic like, to get it over with, and then it's such a relief!  Also you've got a great number of frosties so I'm sure you'll be absolutely fine xx

Yep, test date 10th March.   you made me chuckle about hubby's nails and hair - thx   I needed that!!  I will try to be positive, I will try to be positive (if I say it often enough...!??!*)

I have had AF type feelings today so have been creeping towards the 'not so' positive today, although no cramps as such. Mind you, we take so many drugs, who knows what the twinges relate to!!

Take care and speak soon

BH xx


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## MichelleM72 (Nov 20, 2005)

Hi, sorry for butting in, but I just wanted to wish BH all the best on your 2ww - they're not fun, are they? 

I frequent the egg donor and abroadies threads as they both pertain, but since we had a bfn () last week, our next step is FET.

I hope and pray that you will get a lovely BFP.     All the best to you and all the other ladies.

Not sure if you mentioned it, but what kind of meds were you on?  The doctor in Spain said I could use the patch this time round - any clue what that's like?  Is that instead of Progynova?

Again, sorry for intruding...

xx Michelle xx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Michelle,

You're not intruding, that's what these threads are for!    Thanks so much for your kind wishes.  

So very sorry to hear about your recent BFN    

You'll find this FET thread very useful and you'll read about lots of success FET txs which is an inspiration.  This is my first FET.  I'm afraid I don't know about the patch or Progynova for that matter (although have seen the latter mentioned).  After d/r with buserelin, I am on oestrogen tablets x 3 daily, and cyclogest pessaries (morning and night).  

When do you think you'll go for the FET?  

Take care
BH xx


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

Hi Michelle - So sorry to hear about your BFN   when are you starting FET? I don't know anything about the patch either, sorry I can't help    have to take the progynova tabs in the next couple of weeks. The nasal spray is to dampen down my ovaries so that I don't ovulate and the progynova tabs are to be taken with cyclogest to help thicken the lining of my womb to receive the thawed embies. This is my first FET also so it is all a bit daunting! Don't apologise for intruding that's what we are all here for to give support and encouragement to each other    I wish you all the luck in the world with your FET, keep in touch and let us know how you get on     

BH - How are you babe? I hope you are having a 'Positive' day today!!! I'm sure you are analysing every twinge but hang in there love you are doing great - half way there already!!!!     I hope you have a lovely weekend and I hope to speak to you on Monday.

Take care girls   lots and lots of    to you both.

Emma xxx


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## MichelleM72 (Nov 20, 2005)

Thank you for your lovely welcomes Emma and BH   I have been very down since the BFN, but really need to pick myself up again to get in the right frame of mind for FET.

I'll most likely be starting FET in a month.  Went back on Yasmin today, because of my POF I don't get my period and need that to start the treatment.    So, once I get my period I'll go for scan and blood and start meds to thicken my lining... been there done that. 

BH, it's funny that you mention all the FET success stories, because all I seem to focus on are the negatives.  I know it can work and am happy to know there are other girls out there to talk to.

Lots of luck to you both.    

Michelle


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi girls,

Michelle - you are bound to be feeling down - words can't even describe what we have to go through can they.  You just need to give yourself some time, and look after yourself and try and be positive for the next time.  It sounds like you won't have to wait too long which is gr8.  

Emma - how's the old sniffing going?  Will you be going for a blood test soon, and then find out when to start the progynova tablets?  I guess they must be like the oestrogen tablets I take?

Things have gone from bad to worse for me I'm afraid - I've had alot of AF pain and on Friday was very    and   so I kept out of everyones way at work!!  AF hasn't arrived yet and I know I shouldn't give up yet until she rears her ugly head - but you know what it's like, I just feel like I know it hasn't worked otherwise why would I have the same pains I have every single month.  Anyway, I'm trying and trying to hang in there - I do test Friday so not tooooo long to go - but long enough.. 

My test day will actually be day 17 (don't know why my hospital seems later than others) - do you think I could test early??!  I wasn't going to, but maybe I could put myself out my misery and at least confirm what I already know..?

Oh gosh, sorry to be doom and gloom.  You'd better go and read some success stories now - and there are plenty of them!!

Take care,
BH xx


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## MichelleM72 (Nov 20, 2005)

Hi BH - sorry to hear you're not feeling well, hun.  I can't believe they're having you test so late!  I think if I had to wait that long I may give in to a HPT, not sure though.  Also, if you have such strong feelings that it's negative, maybe you'll get a lovely surprise.  

Hugs and strength to you.

xx


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## Treaco (Mar 10, 2005)

Hi Girls

I wanted to come on here and give you all some encouragement.  If you look at my notes at the bottom you will see I had a FET in December, we only had 2 frozen embryos but both survived the thaw, they didn't lose anything and continued dividing when put back.  On my 2ww I probably done quite alot I shouldn't have but as it was on a natural cycle I sometimes forgot I was on the 2ww.

Michelle don't worry about the pains, I got some AF type pains on my FET and I was convinced it hadn't worked. My test date was 13 days after transfer so I would think you could test early, please don't give up hope.

BH and Emma I want to wish you both good luck for your up and coming cycles and I really hope you all get positives.

Love Michelle xx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Michelle,

Thanks for your post and for sharing your success story - it really does help to hear that there are positive outcomes!!  Still getting some AF cramps, but more on and off now, so who knows!?!  I'm over-analysing which is quite normal for the 2WW I'm sure!  I am going to wait for my test date, as have booked the day off work so that I can deal with it, either way, without having to face colleagues.  Not long now..

Take care
BH x


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

BH - I am so so sorry       I don't know what to say. Take care and I am here for you anytime

Love

Emma xxx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Emma,

So you've got FET for 30th March - brilliant - you must be so excited!!  Not long now...!!  How are you doing?  Sending you heaps of      

love
BH xx


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

Hi BH

I'm doing ok. Had a bit of bad news my nan died unexpectedly on the 6th March. She lived in London and was buried on St. Patrick's Day. Takes a long time to bury compared to 3 days in Belfast. We were very close and I will miss her    It was like Secret Service trying to take my meds when I was over with family last week as they don't know about TX. Everything on that score seems to be going well. We have to go for a scan on Monday 27th at 8.00am to check the lining of the womb and then make the dreaded call on Thursday at 10.00am to see if we got 2 'live embryos'. Then if everything goes according to plan we are back into the clinic at mid day for transfer on the 30th. Can't believe it is nearly here! I am very nervous as have never been at this stage before!    

More to the point how are you keeping love?    I have been thinking about you and I hope you are doing ok xxx

Take care and stay in touch

Emma xxx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Emma,

So sorry to hear about your nan, it's the hardest thing in the world losing loved ones  .  

I can imagine you being like Secret Agent Emma, trying to sort your meds out without anyone finding out!  We've got visitors coming soon, and I've just realised I've got a few needles and things to move away now (plus surplus drugs in the fridge!), that usually live in the spare room!  It's funny how it just takes over your life and becomes quite normal!

Gr8 that everything is going well for you - not long now 'til your scan.  You've got a nice number of frosties so try not to worry too much about that dreaded call, although I know easier said..!  2 out of 3 of ours thawed well which is a good stat.  Stay positive    

I'm doing ok ta.  Started thinking about getting things moving now to go to another clinic (private), as we've had our 'goes' at the nhs and it feels right to move on now anyway.  It takes 6 weeks apparently after they've received the referral letter, so I'm going to get onto my consultant tomorrow and ask if they can make copies of my notes etc.  I'd like to think I'm ready to start May time, if possible.  I'm going to ask at the consultation about having a natural FET with our one remaining frostie, or whether to go straight for another fresh (they only do medicated at my current one).  

I'm away this w/end but sending you lots of   and loads of luck for Monday's scan.  Let me know how it goes, and will check in early next week to see how you're doing.

Take lots of care and speak soon
BH xx


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

Hi BH

Alot of decision making to be done for you over the next few weeks. I really hope it all works out and you and DH are back in the running again in May. You are right it takes over so much of our lives, from the left over drugs to trying to pick yourself up again and make that next appointment, everything else seems to be on hold. Even in work right now I can't concentrate on anything else. I have plenty of work to keep my mind off it but that never works.Thank you so much for your positive thoughts they really help    

I will post on Monday after the scan to let you know how I get on. In the meantime I hope you have a lovely break this weekend you deserve it   

Talk to you soon   


Emma xxx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Emma,

Hope you had a nice relaxing weekend.

How did your scan go today?  Thinking of you

BH xx


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

Hi BH

How are you doing? I hope you are well   I'm doing great thanks. Scan went really well yesterday. My lining is 9.7mm which the consultant said is great anything over 8mm and he is happy with. So have to make the dreaded call on Thursday between 9.30am & 10.00am to see what we have got and if we are lucky enough then e/t Thursday afternoon. I want Thursday to come so much, its dragging and then when I am on the 2WW I'll be stressing again because that will drag! What am I like? sending myself    already!

Thank you so so much for your support you don't realise how much it helps me  

How was your weekend away? Did you have a nice time? Any further decisions made about treatment in May yet or are you taking some well deserved 'us' time. Let me know how you are doing. I'm sending you lots of love and positive vibes, You are always in my prayers      

Take care

Emma xxx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Emma,

That's great about your scan and I'll be keeping everything crossable crossed tomorrow for you.  I found that call one of the hardest things to do but honestly, you'll be fine - you just have to bite the bullet and make the call.  Then you will be full speed ahead for ET!!    

Had a fab weekend away thanks.  Met up with a couple of friends who I don't see very often so had a great girly time and non-stop talking!  

I've got up-to-date brochures on both clinics now so we can make our decision and then will just need a referral again from GP.  I'm thinking probably will get a consultation in May hopefully.  I burst into tears on Monday night because I just felt so stressed about chosing the right clinic and the pressure just hit me!  Actually, I was probably in tears for alot more than that but that tipped me over the edge!  Feeling more positive though now and feel like I want to just get it sorted and move ahead.

I will be looking forward to hearing from you when you get chance, although you may not feel like logging on just after ET!  Make sure you gets lots and lots of rest and try not to stress too much!  Are you taking time off work?

Speak soon

BH xx


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

Hi BH

I'm glad you had a lovely time away and all the very best for May. You are right IF is just so stressful your emotions are all over the place. I hope the crying did you the world of good sometimes that's what we all need - you are human after all!    I am glad you are feeling more upbeat I will be following your progress as you have been such a great friend to me through this all.


Well I now have 2 good embies on board and feeling fine. Tired and twingy but I suppose that goes with the territory!   The good news is the first two embies thawed were live and good grades so we still have 9 sleeping beauties. The bad news is there is a baby boom and everyone around me is pregnant!!I am delighted for them I really am but it is just very hard to deal with. My sister is pregnant, my brother's DP is pregnant and my very close friend is pregnant! Her scan is the same day as our test day 13th April! I hope this is a good sign!


Anyway you take care missy. Thanks so much for you well wishes I truly appreciate them. Keep in touch.

Take Care   

Emma xxx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Emma,

Gr8 to hear from you and all went well with your ET!  So you've got 2 lovely embies on board - fantastic, I knew the thawing would go well for you, just a feeling!  

I know what you mean about the baby boom - although that's been going on for the last 2 years with my friends/family!  We've got DH's SIL coming for easter and she's due end of May (3 years ago we actually talked about hopefully having children at the same time and wouldn't it be lovely etc etc..and now she's on her 2nd!).  Then one of my best friends is due her 2nd any time now..  Just when I think I'm going to get a break from it, another one announces the news!  I really am pleased for them and love their little ones, but you can't help those feelings of envy at the same time, it's only natural.

Anyway, you take good care of yourself and get lots of rest.  Let me know how you're getting on - it won't be an easy ride as the 2ww never is, but hang on in there and try and remain positive.  You've done brilliantly so far    

speak soon,
BH xxx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Emma,

Just to wish you lots of       for tomorrow and I'll be keeping everything crossed!  

Thinking of you

Take care,

BH xxx


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

Morning BH

Thank you so so much for your positive thoughts your support has been immense. My nerves are completely shattered at the moment I want to test so badly although my DH has kept mw pretty grounded on that score as we are testing as soon as he gets in from nightshift which is around 7.30am tomorrow morning. My 2ww has been relatively boring apart from a sharp shooting pain that comes and goes every so often on my right side. Have been having this for the past couple of days. I finish work today until next wednesday but I will try my hardest to leave my result on line as I don't have a home computer. 

I hope everything is well with you and if i don't get in touch beforehand I hope you have a lovely easter. I'm sorry my head is all over the place at the mo I hope we can have a proper chat next week.

Lots and Lots of Love to you

Emma xxx


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

Morning BH

Just back at work today so first opportunity to get on a computer, just wanted to let you know it was a BFN for us.AF in full flow now. It has been very hard on myself & DH never realised how hard it would be but I am hoping to get back into it all asap.Waiting on review appt from consultant which should be about 3 weeks and then take it from there.  We are feeling a bit more positive but hard with so many friends and family members pregnant I haven't been able to speak to them. They have sent me little messages of support which is wonderful but hard going all the same.

Anyway I may get back to work alot to catch up on just thought I would keep you up to date. Thank you so so much for all your support during my treatment it has meant so much to me you are a great friend. I hope you are doing well, keep in touch   

Take care  

Emma xxx


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## Karray (Apr 28, 2005)

hi Ladies,

Sorry to but in ive been reading your posts its great the way you keep each other going. I would just like to wish both of you all the luck in the world I hope this year you both get BFP YOU BOTH DESERVE IT.

Never give up hope xxxx  

Karray xxxx


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

Hi Karray

Thank you so much for your positive wishes I really hope and pray for BFP this year for myself and BH.

I see you have beautiful twin girls, how is it all going? My best friend has twin girls they are 4yrs old and adorable, they are identical in looks but really totally different characters!  

Take care and hope to talk to you soon

Emma xxx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Dearest Emma,

I'm so sorry to hear your news - I've been checking my computer over easter in case you had a chance to get online.  But don't forget it's your first attempt and your cons does learn alot from it on how you respond to drugs etc.  You've got lots of lovely frosties waiting for you too!

It's particularly hard going when friends/rels are pg isn't it.  I've just spent the easter break with my SIL - 8 months pg - and her 2 year old gorgeous daughter.  It was lovely to spend time with them, but I did find it quite hard going at times.  They do know about tx but I still found the scan pictures thrust my way..  Then one of my best friends is having a c-section on Monday - her second one.  Everytime I think my friends will have a break from getting pg, I get another announcement!!

Karray : thanks so much for your message and good wishes, that's really nice of you.  Many congrats on your lovely girls too!  You've given us inspiration! x

Got an apt with our cons on 2nd June - going private now.  He does know me (was my gynae and have had laps in the past) so fingers crossed!

Take care Emma, and try and stay positive - it'll be our turn soon!!

BH xx


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## Karray (Apr 28, 2005)

Hi ladies,

thank you very much the girls are great, twins are hard work but worth every minute of my husbands two failed reversals and 1 sperm retrieval opp. 8 years of tears.self injection, over hyper stimulisation, embies frozen till i was better, fet months later then a BFP. a good preg till one min after c-section my heart stopped a battle for life 1 week intensive care( don't worry odds that happening are about million to 1 )  got better told me i wouldn't be able to breast feed now i feed them both 6-7 times a day BREAST MILK they are nearly 4 months and thriving I'm back to health and started weight watchers last night he he so you see never give up hope anything is possible! ask me if I'd do it all again YES YES YES YES!!!!!!!!

Good luck Karray xxxx


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

Hi Karray

You are a breath of fresh air and a wonderful inspiration to me!!!   I was feeling very down as it is a week today from my BFN   but after reading your story you have give me so much hope. You both had such a long hard journey but it is so worth it. Your girls are beautiful    and such a credit to you both, i'm sure you are very proud  

Thank you so much for sharing your story with us, please keep in touch

Take care   

Emma xxx


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

Hi BH

How are you today? Thanks for your lovely message. I'm sure it was hard for you at your SIL house but i'm glad to hear you had a lovely time with your wee niece. 2nd June won't be long coming around - I have everything crossed for you. Its really good news that you have a familiar consultant. We have one more entitlement on the NHS but we have started to increase our savings incase that doesn't work then we are in a better financial position for private treatment too. It's awful the thought and expense we have to go through before a baby is conceived - life can be so unfair - sorry had to get a little rant in there!  . Here's hoping it will all be worth it in the long run   

Anyway you take care and hope to speak to you soon  

Love and best wishes

Emma xxx


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

Oh BH I forgot to ask you are you going for a natural FET with your little emby or are you going for the full TX again?

Take care

Emma xxx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Karray,

Emma is right - you are such an inspiration to us!  Gosh, I can't imagine ever having 2 wonderful bundles of joy; I hope against hope that I can help others the way you have and share my successful story one day!!  You've been through so much and SO deserve it!! xx


Emma,

Hi, hope you're feeling ok today and keeping your chin up.  I'm going to take my consultant's advice in June as to whether we go for a natural FET or fresh.  If fresh, I'll obviously transfer our little frostie to the new clinic so that he can join any others that we are lucky enough to get.  I bought a digital thermometer last night, just so I can chart my basal temperature.  I'm not sure why, last time they said that it was 'highly unlikely' that we would conceive naturally - but hey - I'm not giving up any eventuality!!  The ovulation sticks don't seem to work for me either (yet they do say that I'm ovulating..) so will be interesting to see if the thermometer shows a rise in temperature mid-cycle.  Well, will keep me busy until our next appointment!

We're away next week on our jollies, so hope you both keep well and will be in touch on return.

Take care and speak soon
love BH x


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

Hi BH

I hope you are having a lovely time on Holiday   

'In for a penny in for a pound'   that's what I say so you carry on with your thermometer and ov kits you never ever know as you say it will keep you busy until you see your cons    

Just wanted to let you know that we have our review appt on the 8th May at 11.00am. We have a different consultant this time although I have spoke to him before and he is great. Very straight talking that's just what I like so hopefully we will have the ball rolling again soon for round 2!!!

Hi Karray just wanted to pop in and say hello see how you are your girls are keeping? I hope you are all well    

Better go and do a bit of work.

Have a lovely day girls talk to you soon

Take care  

Ems xxx


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## Karray (Apr 28, 2005)

Hi Emmsy,

We are all fine thanks, going to the caravan with girls and my freind for long weekend bought new caravan on Sunday so going to add womanly touch to it all exited   babies watching shark tales in bouncy chairs so got five mins to catch up still in PJ's   takes forever to get to this stage up at seven breast feed them both change nappy down for nap back up for solid and more milk dressed and shark tale thank god for tele's   and animated movies I get to watch finding nemo or shark tales he he

I see you are going for a consultation in eleven days keep us posted whatever rd you decide to go down dont be shy just ask me anything you wish about my treatment  i will tell you anything you want to know

Take care Karray xxxx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Ems and Karray,

Hope you're both well.  Had a fantastic holiday but now back to reality!!  

Ems, best of luck with your consultation on Monday and here's to getting started with tx soon!

Karray, Hope you had a good long w/end in your new caravan.  Yes, the animated movies now are brilliant aren't they - I love Shrek!!  I always use the excuse of my nephews and nieces to watch them (and they usually lose interest and we have to ask them to be quiet while we watch!!).

Bye for now
BH x


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

Hi BH & Karray

Karray thank you so much for all your help I may have a few questions for you after the consultation!!!!  

BH - Glad you had a great holiday. How's the thermometer & OV kits coming along?    

Well girls I hope you both have a lovely weekend, take care. I am off on Monday but I'll make sure to log on on Tuesday and let you know how our appt went.

Ems xxx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi 

Em, how did your consultation go on Monday?  Are you ready to get going with your lovely frosties?

We had a lovely holiday thanks.  I haven't started on the thermometer yet - I'm waiting for my next AF which should be around the weekend time.  

I had a review consultation at the NHS place that we've been going to on Monday, as I'd had a CT scan end of January just to see what's going on in my abdominal region.  Anyway, had a terrible shock as she told me that the scan showed up extensive endo and that it had severely damaged my kidney - and the chances are I would have to have major surgery in the future to remove it!!  I was so devastated and shocked, as think us FF ladies have enough to think about without additional worries!!  I was upset all day.  Thankfully I'd got a reflexology appointment already booked for that night (my reflexologist is like a counsellor too!!) and she was wonderful - and pointed out that the cons shouldn't have said those things as she's not a urologist and wait to see the specialist.  The cons also said that they would have spotted the damaged kidney during my laporotomy over a year ago, which made me worse as that made me think the endo was getting so much worse...but my reflex said that the cons doesn't know that at all.  Luckily when I go to the private clinic in June, the same cons is the one who performed the lap - so i can ask him!!  My reflex reckons my kidney may have been damaged some time ago, but I haven't had any symptoms so hopefully not to any great degree.

At least in the meantime I can carry on with tx - but I could do without thinking that I'm going to kick the bucket any time with a collapsed kidney!!

Sorry to waffle on, but it feels good to get this down and out of my system!!

Hope you're both doing ok.  Speak soon

Take care
BH xx


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## mp (Jul 12, 2005)

Hi

We would very much appreciate some advice please. After a cancelled ET due to OHSS, we have 21 day 1 frozen embies (51 collected, 29 icsi'd, 21 fertilized). We saw our consultant yesterday to talk about FET, but are unsure of how to proceed just yet. We'd like to go to blastocyst to help maximise our chances as we have a good  number. The consultant suggested thawing 10, as with an average of 60% thawing success rate that would leave enough to try for blasts. Of course we would have a similar number left for another similar attempt.

We are fortunate to have this number available, but my DP ended up in hospital with OHSS and we want to maximise our chances with the minimum number of attempts (same as everyone else I guess). We don't really know what to think at the moment. We could forget blasts and thaw just a few and have lots of goes at FET, but it could take a long time and cost a lot of money for each go.

Any comments or advice would be very welcome.

Cheers
MP


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

Hi MP

I hope your DP is feeling better that was alot of eggs she had in there. It is wonderful you have so many so you have a few options open to you. If you were to thaw 10 although it seems like a lot you would still have 11 left to use for one more cycle of blasts or you could always thaw a couple at a time with the second lot. I have never went to blastocysts with my FET so I can't give you any advice on that, sorry although the success rate is very appealing. When would you be going for FET? I'm sure it would be a couple of months yet to give your DP to get her body back to normal after OHSS. Whatever you and DP decide to do I wish you all the luck in the world, please let us know how you get on        

BH - I am so sorry love to hear about your kidney - that must have been a big shock to you. No wonder you are angry    if they could have possibly picked this up when you got your lap done. I hope you have it out with that cons. Will you have to go on any meds in the meantime for it or just let it be for now? I hope you aren't in too much pain for the endo - I believe it can be agony. DO you have a wheatbag? Some of the other girls I speak to with endo have wheatbags to help the pain and take Zoladex??

I'm delighted to hear you can continue with tx so I wish you all the love and luck in the world for your next attempt.  Our appointment on Monday was great thanks. I really wanted to do a fresh cycle this time round as I had it in my head we would have a better chance of getting a BFP. Turns out if we you have more than 5 embryos in storage you aren't allowed to do a fresh cycle as can lead to too many embryos in storage so that ruled that out!!! However our doc was brilliant. She explained it would be better for us to thaw 5 embryos and leave the other 4 for a further cycle if necessary. That way she said instead of getting the first 2 live embryos they can decide to pick the best 2 embryos. She did stress there is no guarantee we will get a BFP with better embryos but she said we would have a higher chance. The waiting list is short at the moment so she said we should be starting our treatment within the next few weeks!!!! So looking forward to getting back on the horse so to speak!!! I don't know about you but the waiting in between treatment is just as blody stressful!!!!    

Anyway glad you had a great holiday. Don't apologise for saying your piece on here, that's what I am here for - you do the same for me  

I hope to talk to you soon   

Take care MP & BH  


Ems xxx


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## mp (Jul 12, 2005)

Hi Emmsy

Thanks for the reply. My DP and I were talking earlier and are thinking of 10 for a shot at blasts first time and the remainder a non blasts with two go's perhaps. This is similar to what you mentioned as well I see. The OHSS ended mid feb when AF came along, about 14 days after EC. Since EC we've had two AF and are about to get the third. We are planning to start FET when this next AF comes along. The clinic reckon thats enough time and my DP has felt fine and raring to go for some time. If it was a full IVF schedule then we'd hang on a little longer.

Cheers
MP


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

Hi MP

That is fantastic news I have everything crossed for you and DP. I really hope by taking them to blasts you get a fantastic chance and that all important BFP!!          

Good Luck to you both   

Take care  


Emma xxx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Ems,

So glad to hear that your appointment went well last week - look after yourself and try and stay in a positive frame of mind, ready for action!!  Brilliant news.  Yes, being inbetween tx is so stressful - and being 'in' tx is - so we can't win basically (until we get that miracle BFP and then I'm sure will be stressful in different ways!).

My IF cons has referred me to a urologist to follow-up re: my kidney so I will wait and see what happens with that.  Awful thought though that my poor kidney is in such a bad way - I look out for every back twinge now.  The thing is, I didn't even know that I still had endo.  I mean, I know that you can never really get rid of it, but at my major surgery (laporotomy) at the end of 2004, he didn't see any endo evident.  So makes me think that the IVF drugs has made it flare up again, and alot worse.  Can't think why else.  If my kidney was damaged during that time, would he have seen it?  At least I am seeing my initial cons in June, and so he should be able to give me some answers.  I will try and get a wheatbag - thanks for that    try anything!


MP

Nice to hear from you and best of luck with tx.  I've heard blasts give you a better chance    I will ask about that myself, although don't think I produce enough eggs per cycle.


take care all
BH x


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

Hi BH

You have so many questions I really hope you get them all answered. I'm sure you are worried sick about your kidney now that you know. It's a good job they spotted it now and you will get the medical attention you need for it. It is a disgrace if it was bad then and they missed it first time round. I don't know much about endo but I would definitely ask if the IF drugs are what is making it worse and in turn affecting your kidney. I know there is an endo board on here maybe one of the other girls could give you a bit of advice on that, I 'm just so sorry that you have to go through all this on top of ttc which is stressful enough.

I am here for you anytime you need to rant, scream, shout, cry, say your piece whatever. I wish I had all the answers for you but I hope by just typing out your feelings a small part of you feels better.

I hope you get your urologist appt soon    

Take care my love and we will talk soon.

Emsxxx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Ems

Just wondering how you are doing and what you've been up to?  Got my appointment with the private cons on Friday - will need to update him on the kidney/endo situation.  I wonder what he will advise...hope he's positive, or at least not totally negative as don't think I can take it.  Upset last night as my DH decided to tell me that he doesn't think can get time off for cons apt - fantastic - just another thing to do by myself  

Let me know how you are when you get a mo

Take care

BH xx


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

BH - Great news about the appt but I am sorry to hear your DH may not be able to make it  I know you are feeling angry  and thinking you have to do this alone but I am sure your DH would rather be with you. Try not to be too hard on him I know easier said that done when you are worried sick as to what the cons is going to say. I hope the outcome is definitely positive  for you and that you can continue your treatment. I hope that kidney of yours is doing well and that your cons can refer you to someone so that you can get treated for it also  

Keep your chin up love and I am here for you anytime you know that    

Nothing new with me still waiting to get started. Hoping for July time just waiting on word from the clinic. They sent us yet more forms in the post last week so that's the start I suppose. My June period should be around the 20th and I would like to be started on Day 21 of this cycle so fingers crossed it all works out that way!

Take care and let me know how it all goes on Friday I will be thinking about you        

Sending you lots of hugs to make you feel better      

Ems xxx[br]Posted on: 30/05/06, 14:33GOOD LUCK FOR TOMORROW BH WILL BE THINKING ABOUT YOU!!!![/i][/size]

                    

TAKE CARE

EMSXXX


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Ems,

Thanks so much for all of your support - you're a star!!  

That's so exciting that you can get going soon!!  Everything crossed for you.  I remember reading somewhere that there is a higher success rate of IVF pregnancies in the summer!

I feel alot better after my apt this morning.  It was so good to go back to my original cons/gynae (a different one was seeing us at NHS IVF clinic but this original one is also our private one and he knows me so well!).  We agreed that I should crack on and get my kidney checked out, and then once that's out of the way, can go for next fresh cycle (and bring remaining frostie over from other clinic).  As he is the one who performed the lap back in July 04, he reassured me about the fluid problem I had, and said he really doesn't believe I have hydro (just another worry I had!).  He said it's not easy seeing the state of the kidney in the scan I had, and that the urologist will be able to check it out thoroughly, and hopefully it'll not be too bad - but best to check first as no point in trying to get pg and then being ill..which is totally true...  Oh, my DH did come to the apt in the end, and we had a really nice day and went for lunch etc. so he's not so bad, so I won't divorce him yet!  

One of the main things is that the cons, although being realistic, was also positive and focussed on the fact that we had some good embryos from our last 2 cycles (the nhs one was just so negative all of the time).  

I'm off to see a friend this weekend who told me on the phone on Wednesday night that she's pregnant again with her third child.  I really feel ok about it though.  She's had miscarriages in the past, in fact one just last January, so she hasn't had it easy.  In fact, last Saturday we visited another friend and she told me she's pg!  So, there is just no way of getting away from it!!  I do think it must be so difficult for friends to be able to understand though, and all in all, my friends do do a good job and I know that they care.  I'm not always able to feel ok - you know what it's like, some good days and some bad.

Anyway, Ems, you have a good w/end and I'll start sending you a new lot of pos energy    ready for getting going hopefully v soon      

Speak soon
Take care
BH xxx


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## emmsy (Sep 29, 2005)

Hi BH

It's great to hear from you and your post sounded so positive!!!! Your cons is 100% right there is no point in trying to get pg while your kidney isn't in the best condition - your health is so so important. I hope your urologist gives you great news on the kidney and you can get it sorted asap. Good luck with that.

I'm glad to hear you are feeling ok about friends getting pregnant - your friends sound alot like my own - I am very grateful for the love and support from my friends. Of course we all feel a little sadness when another friend/family member announces a pregnancy - its completely natural - we are deeply happy for them just sad its not our time - but our time will come don't you worry - We just have to keep those positive vibes going - there can be alot of depression and negativity with IF but I try and rise above it - takes immense effort but positive things happen to positive thinkers      these positive vibes are for IF and also your kidney too!!!

Nothing new from me - still waiting - was told letter was on its way - now told the guy who deals with waiting lists is off until Thursday. I asked to speak to my cons and they took my details and said they would ring me back - still waiting!! Tried to ring today and engaged tone constantly - so frustrating!!!! but I will keep torturing them - its nothing new the whole way through ICSI cycle and FET I have had to torture the admin section re: letters and prescriptions so not giving up this time - especially if I can get started on Day 21 of my June period (20th June) but I'll let you know any more updates.

At the moment you take it easy and I'll talk to you soon

Ems xxx[br]Posted on: 6/06/06, 10:58HI BH

How are you keeping? any more word on your appt to see the urologist? Hopefully it won't be too long now. Did you go and see your friend that's pregnant? How did it all go?

My nephew is 2 tomorrow so I am off to a birthday party - can't wait really looking forward to it. I feel in a better mood, I contacted the hospital at the start of the week about my letter to be told that we wouldn't be starting in June and they couldn't confirm if we would be starting in July cycle I had to ring at the end of June if I heard nothing!!! I was fuming inside and felt very sad like I just wanted to jack it all in. Our doc told us we should start in June and have it all over and done with by August. Anyway I got a letter yesterday stating that we would be starting in July cycle so I can't wait to get going again, getting those positive vibes going again!!!   

I hope you have a lovely weekend and keep me up to date with how you are doing. Speak to you soon babe   

Ems xxx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Ems,

Sorry not been in touch for a while; I've actually been getting over a virus (nasty thing!)!.

Hope you had a nice time at your nephew's birthday party - bet it was fun.  That's great that you can start in July - will be here in no time.  What reason did they give for not starting in June?  Is it a numbers thing?  No wonder you felt like jacking it in, it can be so frustrating, particularly when you just want to get on with it.  Do you just have to ring on day one of AF in July now then?

I've got an appointment through to have a kidney scan, mid July, and also have to ring the urologist's office tomorrow to make an appointment to see him.  I'm worried it's going to be ages away, as when I spoke with the office the other day, they said that they can see people within 13 weeks.  Anyway, I'll just have to see when I call tomorrow.  

Yes, we did go to see my pg friend for the w/end.  It was lovely to see them (and her 2 sons), although I did find the conversation automatically went to the kids alot, talking about parenting skills, schools, behaviour etc.  It seemed natural to do that, but when I left I did feel quite exhausted mentally, and quite depressed.  It's just the circumstances I know.  I've got a big reunion to go to mid-July for a w/end, and it's where my friends will be bringing all of their kids!  So that'll be another tough one.  There's only me and another friend who don't have any (and she's currently trying so will soon just be me!) - the others all have 1 or 2.  Again, it'll be great to see them all as we don't all get together as often as we'd like (one friend lives in the US) but I know it'll be another occasion when sometimes I'll think why not me!!?* 

Anyway, keep me posted on how you're doing - not long to go now!!      

Take care,
BH xx


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