# Egg donation for christians



## KateyP

I'm a Christian and gone through egg donation twice already. I'm starting a third program tomorrow and have once again analysed my thoughts about the ethics of egg donation. We've been ttc for 12 years and I've prayed many times over that time for God to give us children. We have explored lots of avenues, including adoption which turned out to be a pretty awful experience with social workers and we took it no further due to I reckon discrimination against me as a Christian.

My husband is not a Christian so he has a different perspective on things. There was a time I thought I'd not do IVF and I overcame that hurdle. At each hurdle I have wrestled with my conscience. I have moved forward at each stage by facing each issue, continuing with my faith and, rightly or wrongly, feeling at ease with my decision. I don't know whether my conscience has been dulled by me chosing to do what we want, rather than sticking close to the Bible, but I still seek God's will. I believe the choices we have to make nowadays are not clear cut and black and white. It does not make things easy. I have one friend at church who I have confided in but I don't feel at liberty to talk to our minister for example. I'm sure many christians will have strong opinions on the matter.


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## Irish Dee

Hi KateyP,

I'm an Irish Catholic and the catholic church frowns upon *all* types of assisted conception.

The way that I see it is that God gave scientists and doctors the ability to develop the procedures and that help infertile couples and that is also a gift.

I'm sure that 'god' (which ever one we all believe in) would not condemn any procedures that help us to achieve our dreams and to be honest, we are all doing it out of love for our potential babies and there is a lot in the bible that shows god really loves children.

The internal debate can be difficult, but sometimes we have to bend the rules in order to achieve our dreams.

Please god that we all achieve our precious babies and I'm sure that when we bring them up as committed Christians or catholics, even god in heaven would not question how they came about.

Wishing you all the luck for your next cycle,

Dee


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## KateyP

Thank you Dee for your reply and your comforting words   I agree with you, the internal debate is difficult. I came across this article which I'm finding helpful:

http://www.surrogacy.com/medres/article/christv.html

Best of luck for your next cycle. Hoping your dreams come true.

Katey xxx

/links


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## Irish Dee

Hi Katie,

Very interesting reading.  Fingers crossed that we will all achieve our dreams.

Dee
xx


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## crackinup

Hi Girls,

I too am struggling with my conscience regarding ivf.  I am Catholic so we are been told ivf is a complete no no.  My dh and I have been through 4 cycles of ivf and still no baby.  We are absolutely heart broken.  We are waiting for further test results at the moment to see why we have had so many failures. My dh has low count, poor morphology and motility, so now we are waiting to see if there is dna fragmentation or chromosome abnormalities.  

While I can understand why the church would have a problem with some of the aspects of ivf, I really dont think we should be judged for trying to have children, after all is that not what we were put on earth to do. I myself have a problem with embryos being discarded or left frozen and never used because I do believe that life begins at the moment of conception. We had made the decision before we started ivf that no matter how many embryos we had, we would use them all, even if it meant 10 kids!!! If only! Our embryos were always very poor quality and stopped dividing so the best we had to put back were only ever 5,6 or 7 cell, once we had an 8 cell but we still dont have our baby. we did get a bfp on 3rd cycle but it ended in mc.

Now my dh and I are considering embryo donation in one of the spanish clinics. Because we feel so strongly that every embryo should be given a chance to live, we are thinking very strongly about going this route. The Catholic Church are divided on their opinion of embryo donation. Some say that it is the most humane thing to do and others say the most humane thing would be to leave them frozen until they are no longer viable. How the latter could be the most humane thing is beyond me!!! These little embryos have a soul from the moment of conception and I dont think it is right to deny them the chance of life.

Anyway I am rambling on a bit now  My dh and I have discussed the morals of ivf with my parents, who are good Catholics! My fathers theory is this: God gave these doctors the ability to help people who are struggling to have children, if He was opposed to it He would not have given the doctors this ability, However it is up to us to use our conscience when we are deciding how far we go with it. For example, it is not our right to deny embryos a chance of life, or it is not our right to discard them because a test shows they have a chromosome abnormality or they are not the gender we had hoped for. (pgd testing for sex selection is legal in some countries) I have to agree with my father on this one. 

I would love to hear what you think of these theories, do you agree or am I just making these theories up to suit myself and ease my conscience  Also would love to hear what you think about going the donor embryo route, do you think we are being selfish bringing a child into the world who is not genetically related to us?

At the end of the day, I like to think that God is a loving, forgiving God who does not want us to spend our lives on earth depressed and crying every day because we are so desperate to have a family, I like to think that God understands we need help to achieve our dream and as long as we are respectful of life that He is happy for us to use Ivf to create our family.  Surely if we are bringing up our children to love God and each other and to be good and loving people, that is what matters

Sorry for rambling on and I hope that I have not stepped on any toes with this post but I would love to hear your thoughts
 for all of us on this tough journey
Crackinup xxxx


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## angel star

Crackinup -    I haven't anything to say except thinking of you and all the other ladies grappling with their conscience. I too went through all these feelings with my first and only cycle of ICSI. You have to reach a decision that you can accept and live with. I found talking to my parish priest a help and although they obviously have to tow the line of the church (I'm catholic too) they also have to be compassionate towards their flock. (I posted on another thread about this recently). 

I have decided no more ICSI for me but am pursuing Naprotechnology. Not sure this is an option for you and you may have looked into it. I'm not sure it's going to be successful for me and I have had recent stressful experiences with regards false positives or chemical pregnancies and don't know where I'm at.

Wishing you and all the other ladies here lots of luck in whatever you choose. I believe God loves us unconditionally and he knows the depth of our despair and will stick by is whatever we choose. xx


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## KateyP

Hello Crackinup

Thank you for your reply. The journey we are on really is heartbreaking. I was brought up as a strict Scottish Presbyterian. I have inherited a belief that there is 'maybe' something not quite right about IVF and using technology to produce children. However, there have been a lot of developments in science in the last 30 years and today's world presents us with so many complicated issues which our parents' generation did not have to deal with. And surely, if God was against IVF, there would be no IVF babies ... they have souls too. I like what the Christian clinician in the article in my previous post said, [to paraphrase ...] when the embryo 'sticks' and it begins to grow, that is the miracle of life and only God can make that happen, not doctors or scientists.

I like the way your dad looks at things. In your situation it sounds like embryo donation is a good idea and it is a way of rescuing these embryos. Life is sacred. I agree that each person needs to make decisions based on their own consciences. God has given us a free will. We can only ask God to be with us as we stumble along a path we're unsure of.

Do you have any more thoughts?

Lots of  .

Katey xxx


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## crackinup

Hi Katey,
I read that article that you posted and I agree with everything in it. I showed it to my dad too and he agreed with everything in it too and the views in it were so similar to mine that I could have wrote it myself!!! I spoke to a nun recently about the whole thing and she told me that she believed we had done nothing wrong doing ivf and if we have to go down the embryo adoption route then we should go for it. In her eyes we would be giving life to an embryo that already has a soul and it was a great thing to do. She said that she believes in a God that is compassionate and does not want us to suffer. I honestly believe so long as we are being respectful of life and giving all the embryos we create a chance of life we are doing no wrong.
My conscience is clear about going the embryo adoption route as far as offending God is concerned. My big worry now is the reaction of other people.  We will be open with any child we have through embryo adoption and tell them from the beginning where they came from so obviously we will have to be open with everybody about it. As you know kids tell everything at school!!! My family told me to do what I think is right and dont care about other people because we are doing no wrong, surely it would be worse if I was having an affair and got pregnant. They said other people have so much going on in their own lives that although they might have a bit of a gossip about us, they will soon get over it and get on with their lives.  I just worry that anybody would ever say anything negative to the child. Also the fact the child would never know anything about its genetic background worries me, would they resent us for this??  
How do you feel about this? Are you planning on being open with any child born through egg donation? 
I really dont think you should worry about offending God if you go the egg donation route, you will be creating a life, and  that life will only come into being if it is Gods will, you will be bringing that child up to love God and that is what matters. Look at how many people are bringing children into the world and dont even baptise them, I think thats worse!

As I said my biggest worry now is how other people react and how my child will feel when they are old enough to understand that even though we are their mum and dad, that they have no genetic link to us our any of our families 

I would love to hear your thoughts on this
God bless and please dont be beating yourself up anymore about whether it is morally right or wrong 
talk soon 
Crackinup xxxx


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## Guest

I'm also a Christian and struggled with IVF as a way to get pregnant for me.  We have unexplained infertility and although we did try IVF a couple of times, I felt if God wanted me to be pregnant he would have sorted it without intervention and my heart was never really in it.  I'm not sure I would have felt so uncomfortable if there was a diagnosed reason for my infertility which meant I needed IVF to get pregnant?

In the end, we have adopted and the series of Godincidences we encountered en route have left us sure this was God's path for us.    

It is hard when you are still on the ttc journey and trying to discern God's plan for you - I've learnt we do have to trust and keep praying and it will all work out - in the right way, at the right time for each of us.  

Bop


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## JennMcC

Hi girls,
that was a really interesting link Katey!
im catholic aswell and tx is a minefield for us all. what i think we should all remember is that the bible can twisted to say whatever someone wants it to say,the KKK quote it as a means of justifying their horrendousness!
our relationships and marraiges are our vocations in the same way the priesthood is a vocation,we have to strive to sustain them and in such a disposable society,this can be difficult enough without the stresses of infertility!
i also shared my eggs when i had my tx,to help minimise the number of embryos i produced, we are also considering donating any remaining embryos after the next tx,if i hopefully get bfp again, when im sure im not going to have anymore children. i feel in some way that god has lead me down this path for that reason,i am also considering becoming a surrogate as it is only my tubes are blocked. i feel somehow that god wanted me to know the suffering that living without children brings so that i could help ease others' pain too. 
Crakinup,i was much like you in fearing other peoples reactions,i come from a VERY old fashioned catholic family,my uncle is a priest! many people will have many opinions about what they would do or not do,but they are not in our position and while they have all the fix it solutions under the sun,the reality of a lot of them is often far more complex than they could ever imagine. i found that when we made the decision to go down the ivf road,the more open and honest we were about it,i felt people judged us less,my priest at the time was very understanding. i also think that some people want to have an opinion on everyones life and judge everything,i think they are more often than not bitter about their own lifes and need our prayers more than our hurt or frustrations.

Stay positive girls,fingers crossed for you all!im sure god will lead us all down the path thats right for us all!xxx


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## Sasha B

Hi Ladies,


I just stumbled over this thread and wanted to add my two pence worth.


Donor eggs or embryos are a gift from God. He is the one who breathes life into all babies, including those conceived through DE. I am a Christian and like the rest of you, Dh & I grappled with whether DE was right for us. I know that some people look on it as another person (the donor) entering into your marriage relationship but we felt this was not the case. We looked on it as adopting an egg which was loving and kindly given to us by our lovely donor. We prayed about it a lot and agreed that we would go ahead with it but always keeping God in the centre (this principle was just as important for the IVF as well). My Dh said that any child God gave us would be a blessing even though s/he might not have my DNA they would be no less my child. I am open with both my children about how they were made and DD already knows about the 'lady who kindly gave mummy her baby eggs' because mummy didn't have any of her own and this is something I intend to keep talking to them about as they get older.


I look at my beautiful children now and there is no way that I am anything but their mum. I say that with all humility as I am so grateful everyday for the gift that their donor gave me and for these little lives that God has placed into my hands to nurture and care for. It is God who has made me their mum and I am so very blessed. I know the journey can be tough and heartbreaking though. At the end I just took it cycle by cycle, surrendering each one to God and seeing if I felt strong enough to go on or whether in fact God was saying 'stop' or as Bop said, pursue an other journey to parenthood. It took me 8 cycles but I have finally got my family and I pray that God gives you your families as well. 


Love,


Sasha xxx


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