# Natural ivf cycle (ie. no drugs) Part 2



## Rachel (Mar 10, 2004)

New home  

Lots of love and luck to you all


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Memphis - glad to hear you are ready to go. I hope this style of protocol suits you better. It's nice to get a cycle in before Christmas, at least you feel you are moving forward. It's the doing nothing that drives me insane. I actually like doing IVF cycles in a bizarre sort of way as I know I at least have a chance.

Debs - I know all these tests can cost a fortune, and it's just so frustrating hanging around waiting for results.

As for me .... I have spoken to the ARGC about the inhibin B test, and have managed to get a few posts from girls on these boards, and the bottom line is I am going to ignore the result. Mr T doesn't do the test nor do many of the IVF clinics because the results have been shown to be unreliable. To have any value it needs to be done on one particular day (usually day 3) - not any day between 1 and 5, and needs to be repeated on that day to get a trend. I have had 2 posts from girls at the ARGC who got low results from being tested elsewhere and are now pregnant - one with triplets! So my plan is to give this IVF one more year. In that year I will do 3 cycles at the ARGC, and in between I will do 4 Natural Cycles at Create Health - I think that's about the max I could fit in in 12 months. If that doesn't work I'm calling it a day. I feel I will have given it my best shot.

So on that basis I am going to give the Natural Cycle a go this month - so should be starting mid- November sometime. I have to fly to Ireland on the 23rd for my Dad's anniversary, he died on the 24th last year. So unless that interferes with my dates, I'll be all systems go.

Memphis - I guess we'll be cycle buddies   One other question for you, have you had the second part of your cycle monitored at all by Geeta? I'm a bit dissappointed as I have always felt I have a short luteal phase, and I am having no monitoring after ovulation - not even the bog standard progesterone tests  

Hope everone else is doing ok,

Holly


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Holly the only thing I can suggest if you think you have a LPD is to talk to Geeta about it, the only reason I am having this load of tests is because of the drastic failure of my IVF..... it measn more blood tests and scans, but if you feel thats a problem ask........ I am not have the prog tests done because she feels that i would have had far too much in my system from the pessaries and my empty follies anyway... but there are other blood tests and scans they can do.......... although if your at ARGC you have probably had them done already.......

Holly if you have a money tree in the bottom of your garden can you send me some seeds please    I always thought ARGC was veryyyyyyyyyy expensive??

HUgs

Debs
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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

I do keep looking at the end of the garden for the money tree, but sadly there isn't one!! If I ever find one you will be the first to know Debs 

To be fair to the ARGC they are not that much more expensive than any other clinic for basic IVF or ICSI. In fact I would say they are pretty much on a par with most of the private clinics. Where it does get expensive is the drug regime you are put on. I know that some girls with immune issues have enormous drug bills. Also, because you are monitored on a daily basis, you have the daily blood test to pay for that 111 Harley St - the same place Geeta uses.

Just one more thing .... I've was just checking for the success rates for St Georges but couldn't find them, so I emailed the HFEA. They say they are not a licenced clinic. Presumably you know this, I'm just a bit behind   Does this concern you at all?

Holly


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Hi Holly,

they are not licensed yet as Geeta is waiting for the new EU rules to comeout re labs.... I knew this as we were told on our looksie visit, we were also discussing this at our follow up as we had some issues with LGFC, that is the reason why Geeta uses LGFC, you only need to be licensed by the HFEA if you are doing EC/ET or any lab work with embryos. I am surprised you didnt know this already as Geeta is very open about it......  I personally dont see it as an issue. Maybe I am wrong??

I realised after my last post you may have taken it worngly, I didnt mean it to come out the way it probably did re the money tree   sorry if I offended you hunni, that wasnt my intention, i was just trying to lighten the mood a bit sorry..........

Love and hugs

Debs
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## memphis (Apr 4, 2005)

Hi guys,

Hope all is well.

Holly - sounds like you've got next year packed out - at least you won't have time to mope. I completely understand what you're saying about being in to cycling. With all it's ups and downs it is indeed the only time when you feel like you're doing something to achieve that dream. I always feel really depressed until I get on and make plans. Great that you're going to go for natural cycle. As I said it seems like a good option if your eggs are doing what they should be and DH sperm is strong. As for ARGC, I guess I just got put off with their whole attitude after my last negative. They still haven't responded to our letter and after shelling out vast amounts of money they should allocate some resource to deal with these things. In the end we can only do what makes us feel comfortable and ARGC do get good results so I understand why you want to try them again.  

As for create, I am comfortable with the fact that they use LFC for their procedures as this is Prof. Craft's clinic (he was a pioneer of ICSI and has loads of 'firsts' under is belt) so I am not too worried abouts stats. The main thing for me is that I feel connected with Geeta which is a first for me! The rest, I truly believe is in God's hands - so I will put my trust in him and carry on as best I can!

Debs - I think the other important thing is that you felt supported after your negative and this must help in keeping yourself together. Your experience definitely helped make up my mind. I am very nervous because the protocol will be very different to what i have had in the past and I don't even know if I will respond at all on low stims - but with all my past experiences I don't see the harm in giving Geeta's approach a go.

Failing that, I will follow in Holly's footsteps and amke an action plan for next year!!

Bye for now!


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Memphis 

you are totally right, I feel very connected to Geeta and Lizzi, I beleive they have our best interests at heart, she has always maintained that they wouldnt put people though things unless they had a good chance of success, which makes me feel good about the whole thing, The fact that she was as devestated as we were also intills (sp) trust as well... I guess you have to take my word for that as you can only judge on what you see and i see that Geeta has a face that doesnt hide emotion very well, either that or she is a fantatsic actress which I dont believe  

I have seen many so called 'professionals' in my path to having a baby and so far she is the only one, i trust completely with my welfare, so that should tell you something!!

Love and hugs
Debs
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## Lol (May 19, 2004)

Hi girls

Sorry I haven’t posted for a bit but have been trying to keep up with how it is going for all of you.

Debs, hope you are OK .  It is great that you have got such good support from Geeta.  Hopefully next time will be the one.  

Holly, glad that the inhibin test turned out to be less of a worry than you initially thought.  Great that you have a plan in place for next year.  I am sure you will get lucky on one of your attempts just hope it is sooner rather than later.  

Memphis, I know exactly what you mean about ARGC.  I feel exactly the same, but Mr T is brilliant and does put 110% in to getting you a BFP.  My issue is  that I don’t know whether the zillions of drugs makes any difference to the number of good quality embies I can get as double the dose on a flare cycle did not give me significantly more embies.  I guess my NHS go will tell me as I am sure they will not be happy about giving me 600iu a day!  I really hope that Geeta can get you some decent embies on a low dose as that will be a much less stressful way to do IVF + you will be able to do more cycles.  

I still haven’t booked a consult with Geeta but will definitely aim to get one soon.


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## annie. (Mar 24, 2005)

Hi everyone,
hope you are all doing ok. 
I haven't posted for a bit because work has been manic and I haven't had a spare minute.
However, we're haveing a most unusual lull, so I'll make the most of it.

Holly, I was sorry to read about your intial scare re the inhibin b test, but most releived to hear that you're mind has been put at rest now.
You're plan sounds both positive and full on, but I agree, I hate sitting around doing nothing.
Lots of luck to you, I hope you don't have to go through all of those cycles and that it'll happen for you very soon.

Debs, you sound in good spirits, glad to hear it. A negative really takes it out of you, so you are being very strong.

Memphis, good luck with Geeta, I hope you get lucky, keep us updated.

Lol, is your NHS go anytime soon? Sorry if you've mentioned this, but I've not had time to do a proper catch up. I hope you get some success with it.
I spoke to the ARGC testerday and Ellie told me Mr T is looking over my file and she will call me once he's done this. This makes me feel much better about starting another cycle with them in late dec/jan.

In the meantime, we have our appointment tomorrow with Geeta. I'm not to sure what to expect. I know she takes a sperm sample, but will she do any tests on me?
I'm hoping to fit in a natural cycle before christmas, if of course, this is appropriate treatment for us. 

Take care everyone,
Lisa.


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Debs - I didn't take offence at all to the money tree comment - in fact it made me smile. How good would that be to find a money tree. I'm just going to stick with buying lottery tickets   The licencing did come as a surprise to me as I guess I hadn't had that conversation with Geeta. My first appointment with her was all about Natural cycle rather than focusing on the clinic, so it's not something that came up. As Memphis says, I don't suppose it is a problem as the EC/ET bit is done at a licenced clinic - so that covers it off. Does Geeta do the EC/ET or do the consultants from the LFC do it?

Memphis - not long till Friday. Have you decided to start? It is good to get going again. I really hope that the gentle stims are a better way forward for you. I have opted for a modified natural cycle which means I have a few days of stims from day 5. The purpose of this apparently is to push another follicle past the finish line so if I was incredibly lucky I might get 2. I have to say I'm not holding out much hope for more than the 1 as it's always taken a real push to get my ovaries to behave, but hey, all it takes is one!! Do you know what the arrangements are over the Christmas period at the clinic as depending on the dates of my cycle  this month I may have to give this month a miss and go for December. But I think that might take me into the Christmas period  

Hi Lol - good to see you back. Best of luck with your NHS cycle. What hospital are you having it at? 

Lisa - good to talk to you again too. It was Ellie I spoke to the other day too. Good that you are thinking of cycling again. We might even be cycle buddies again as my plan would be a new year cycle at the ARGC unless of course I get lucky before hand   It won't be so pleasant turning up for bloods on Saturdays and Sundays in January as it was in August   Good luck with your appointment tomorrow. My DH didn't come along (he only turns up for the essentials) but following my initial appointment I then had to do a full cycle monitored - so all the usual tests.

Take care all,

Holly


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Hi Holly hun,
The cons at LGFC do the EC and ET, they are really nice, watch out for the head nurse tho   Lizzie she is not!!!!

I had wondered why I couldnt find them in the HFEA guide, assumed it was because they were new, but asked the question anyway.... it seems that the EU will be sticking its nose into labs in the near future, so she doesnt want to waste monet setting it all up further than she has already to have to change it all again... the lab is just off the theater, near where they take bloods... not sure if you have seen it I think the changes come about some time next year, so I would assume the lab will be up and running end of next year or beginning of 2007.... She did say to us that she uses LGFC becuase they are good at the processes and they get good results so I guess that relationship will go on for a while yet..........

Love and hugs
Debs
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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Hi girls,

Not sure if you will be able to read these threads or not - they are from the IVF connections board where you have to be a member to login.

However, they are threads about Natural Cycle IVF in the US. It seems to be in it's infancy there too so there are not many success stories - but lots of stuff about poor responders to the IVF drugs having better response to Natural Cycle IVF - in that no drugs, or very few drugs is giving them an egg - albeit only one, whereas stimm drugs were not giving them many more than that, and in some cases none. The big problem would seem to be the timing of the EC. It appears to be a bit of an inexact science. I guess IVF does control that very closely, whereas you are a little at the mercy of nature - hence the title I guess!! Makes interesting reading tho.

http://www..net/board/showthread.php?t=1084&page=1&pp=25

http://www..net/board/showthread.php?t=11015

Debs - I've only ever been to Harley Street so have never seen the lab etc. I've not met Lizzie either - I've met a girl called Priscella who is very sweet. I'll make sure I watch out for the head nurse at LFC - is she easily upset


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

ohhh ok, I havent been to create so I dont know much about that one............

Urm the head nurse, I am sure she is very nice too, but when we went she was very stressed and a little 'barky' if you know what I mean, I guess was just a bit of a culture shock after the lovely treatment at St.Georges...... 

I am sure we will be going back at some point in time so she didnt put us of that much  
Hugs

Debs
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## annie. (Mar 24, 2005)

Hi ladies,

just thought I'd let you know that we arrived at Create this morning to find that Geeta was at an emergency and couldn't make the appointment.
We were very disappointed, you know how it is, you feel like every step is such a massive hurdle in this game.
Not quite sure what to do now, will think about booking another appointment, but it's looking less likely that we'll be able to get a natural cycle in before christmas.

Hope you are all well,
Lisa.x


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Lisa - how annoying is that, when you have yourself all psyched up. Something similar happened with my first appointment also, but I did get an appointment the following week - so there might still be time to fit something in before Christmas.


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## memphis (Apr 4, 2005)

Hi Lisa,

Again, the same thing happened to me on my first appt when Mrs Nargund was called out for an emergency procedure and Mirel rand to tell me - I remember standing in the middle of my kitchen bawling my eyes out and poor DH desperately trying to rationalise!! So - I know how you feel but I got another appt within a couple of days so don't lose heart, there is still time


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Awwwwwwwwww Guys, I am soooo sorry this has happened to you, I must have been really lucky cos apart from having to wait for an hour once, I have never been cancelled


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## anna37 (Sep 13, 2005)

Hi guys,

We have been to see the consultant this afternoon and I am not sure how I feel, he was very nice, he looked at my very long history very closely and we all decided on the following:-

He is going to do a laparoscopy and either unblock the tube if this is possible (this would be fantastic), or remove it if their is "swelling" (not sure how I feel about this bit).  

If he removes it this is because it could affect our implantation chances for the natural ivf?  

We will then do a batch of natural ivf (probably 4 or 5).  He said our success rate per natural cycle was between 5 and 7%.

I would appreciate your comments guys please,

Ana
xxx


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Hi Ana,

I am sorry I cant help you I am afraid, I dont know much about it after tube removal  

Hugs

Debs
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## memphis (Apr 4, 2005)

Hello girls,

Hope you all had a nice weekend.

We went to visit my friends who has boy/girl twins from IVF and I have to say I was overwhelmed with emotion. They were soooo cute and I could have stared at them all night (mind you I pretty much did). Anyway I was really happy that I bonded with them the way I did - it was fab.

I have started down-regging and apart from te usual hot flushes and headaches all ok. As I said I am treating this cycle very much as a pre-christmas trial so we can get more info and get more aggressive in the new year. Expensive experiment though  .

Hope you are all doing well!!


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Hi Memphis,

Good to hear you have started again. It's always good to get going - even if it puts a dent in the old bank balance. How long do you expect to down reg for? a couple of weeks? Have you any idea what level of stims you will be on once you get started? Sorry so many questions! Good luck with the cycle and I hope it turns out to be more than an experiment. Boy/girl twins sound just perfect - what lucky friends! 

I'm expecting AF sometime this week - so will be off on my natural cycle as long as it fits in with Geeta's hols, and my long weekend next weekend.

Sorry Ana, I don't know much about tubal removal and how it will effect your IVF. I wish you luck though with whatever decision you make.

Hello to everyone else,

Holly


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## memphis (Apr 4, 2005)

Hi Holly,

Thanks for your good wishes and right back atcha 

I am D-regging for 15 days and then have a scan. I think Geeta is away at that time so it will be with another consultant. As for the stims I will be starting on 150 Puregon. Very low for me so let's hope something happens! Mind you I don't think my body could handle big blasts at the moment anyway. I'll put my faith in her. I had forgotten how tiring D-regging is though and although I'm trying to drink water I have had a couple of stonking headaches.

I hope you get your natural cycle in. I think Geeta is only away for a few days so it should be ok.

Keep us posted.


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Hi Guys,

just wanted to wish you all good luck.................

Geeta is away on a conference all of next week, I have a scan booked in with the Prof as he is taking over while she is away......... should be interesting!! 

this IF is a lark isnt it  

Love and hugs

Debs
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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Hi Guys,

Well AF turned up today so have phoned the clinic to book in for my day 5 scan. Just waiting for them to get back to me with an appointment. So could be on my way .....

Holly


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Way to go Holly 

   good luck hunni

Debs
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## memphis (Apr 4, 2005)

Great stuff Holly,

I've got everything crossed for your Natural cycle - really hope it becomes more popular in this country too.
The very best of luck to you!

Debs - hope your scan goes well. I think I'll have the prof to. It was quite funny when Mirel asked me if it was ok for a man to scan me.........I thought 'if only you knew how public my parts have become my dear..........man, woman anyone really!!!'


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Mephis I am sooooooo with you on that one he he he he

I have my scan with him because lo and behold on my day 16 scan last night to see what was going on.... no ovulation!! great big fat follie still sat in my ovary   so I have to have another one to find out whats going on...........

on a sad note, I saw in the newsletter that Kirsty isnt going back there.... and is in fact moving home   I dont know if any of you met her?? she used to be the admin there and was lovely!! not sure about Mirel, she seems to be softening but was quiet short when she first started and ohhh is very efficient bless her!!

when are you going in Memphis?? maybe we will bump into each other??

Hugs

Debs
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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

hi girls,

I check this thread every day - its nice to see some progress for everyone. I dont message v often though, so sorry for that.
Good luck Holly - hope things go really positively for you with this, the same to you Memphis. I havent down regged for a couple of years - and I cant say I miss it! Give me a flare protocol anyday.

Debs are you 'having a go' with this months folly? or are they using this month to check on your luteal phase?

I have my appointment with Geeta tomorrow - quite excited/ nervous. Any advice on what to expect? My DH prob isnt coming with me - but after 4 cycles and numerous tests I have a lovely big pile of photocopied test results - hopefully that will be ok for geeta?! Poor man has been replaced by a pile of records!  

best wishes to everyone
Amanda xx


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

These are supposed to be luteal phase scans however as I hadnt ov'd yesterday was sent home to   not that I ever can after one of those scans..... I always end up in pain for 24 hours after   must just be cos my bits are all over the place  

Good luck with your appointment tomorrow hunni, dont stress she is lovely and will put you at ease, she is also refreshingly honest too.......... 

Hugs

Debs
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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

I just had a call from create health and am a little down hearted. Firstly the plan was that I would be scanned on day 5 and start stimming on that day as long as a dominant follicle could be seen. As they don't do scans at the weekend, I am now not being scanned till Tuesday - which is day 7, probably not a huge deal. But the whole weekend thing hadn't really crossed my mind. So secondly, and more importantly, I asked about EC at weekends, as particularly with a natural cycle, you have to collect the egg when it's ready ..... but there are no EC's at weekends - so you can only ovulate Mon - Fri    

What do you girls think? Am I over-reacting? Remember it's first day of AF, so that is highly likely


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Really there is no EC on weekends?? I am   at that......... but that would be down to LGFC not Create, so maybe you could call and ask them??

Debs
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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

thanks Debs - more excited than aprehensive now then.
love the little pic thing for s*x - so funny

Holly - that's so frustrating - I must admit that would really knock me back too. Are you fairly regular in your cycles - do u know if u will ovulate at a weekend? Don't the pick it a little early - and can they not give you suppressants for the last couple of days if need be?

Amanda xx


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Well this month certainly wont be our month as we have done nothing but fight and not talk to each other since my scan on Tuesday   I dont know why and not quite sure what is going on, but I wish it would pass, I onlymanaged to sleep till 2.30 this morning and am sat at work with matchsticks in my eyes trying to stay awake .............. 

Good luck for you appointment today Mands hun

Hugs

Debs
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## memphis (Apr 4, 2005)

Hello girls,

Debs -don't be too hard on yourself about the BMS. I know for one that I put myself under so much pressure around ovulation time that we often end up being really tense and arguing, or like you, not doing it at all. It's usually my fault as I've wound myself up silly - poor DH   It's ridiculous really but with all the scans and treatment you just sometimes get overly stressed about it - especially when someone has told you to go away and do it  

Holly - I am also surprised that a centre like LGFC don't do collections at weekends and I can see why you're worried. You must def ask them how they plan to keep your egg from popping if it wants to on a Saturday!!

Mands - how did your appt go?

Good luck all !!


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Sorry to barge into your thread. I've got my first consultation at the ARGC in late Dec, but have always been cautious about medicated tx. I'm so far unexplained and have not had much luck in getting the NHS to take my other factors (I have IBS - drs don't seem interested in lack of fertile mucas, and at my first unmedicated IUI in Oct my lining was only 5.9mm, they refuse to give me tx for this, as they say it's not a factor that concerns them as unmedicated). I'm interested in Natural IVF cycles and from reading your posts I might try and see if I can get a consultation in with Create. Do you think I should go to both clinics for consultation? Money is a factor for me and could do without paying for all tests twice.

Thanks

Louise


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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

hi girls

Debs- so sorry to hear u and your man are at loggerheads - poor thing. this whole IF business does put you through it, doesnt it. hope u make up soon x

Louise - hi. I think that whoever u have the tests with, as long as u request copies, u wont need them done again in the other clinic. Having said that - ARGC run some really advanced tests, which can cost a LOT of money, but if they identify something that other docs miss, then it is so worth it. You could always choose your route after having all the tests done? I have to say, that my appointment with Geeta today, really made me wish I could turn back the clock a couple of years, and tried the natural option first. I am so anti drugs and truly believe that things might be too late for me, as my fsh is pretty high and I respond so badly to stimms, that now I wonder what quality my eggs that are left, must be after all the meds. Probably crap (scuse the expression) - which means my chances full stop are pretty slim for the future- but we shall see after my test results come back.

Louise, Accupuncture can really help with the thickness of your lining - and might even help with IBS? Doh! I just re-read your signature, you're already doing this - derrrr! 


The consultation at create cost £140 - I can't remember if ARGC is £150 or £200. might even be in between that. The biggest cost in medicated treatment is the drugs - depending on how much they give u. If u go down the medicated route, check out some of the threads for buying drugs at the cheapest places (if your NHS won't fund your meds)

Thanks for asking about my appointment girls. Geeta was v nice, v relaxed and not rushed at all. I like her approach, but I came out there quite sad, as it just reminded me of how much my body is not responding and how much it's been through. It's really rare for me to get down, so I am sure I will be more positive tomorrow. Good news though, with DH's recent results Geeta reckons we may even be able to try IUI, which is fab news. He's now calling his sperm 'super sperm' - bless! (he needs to get out more!)

Holly any news on the whole weekend thing?

Love and luck to you all
Amanda xx


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Hi Girls,

Debs - I hope things have improved for you. This IF stuff really piles on the pressure, and particularly at certain times of the month. I hope you have managed to work things out   Don't under estimate the effect your BFN might be having on you also. It takes some time to get over you know, it's probably still pretty raw for both of you.

Louise - you are very welcome. I can't remember how much my consultation was at the ARGC either as it paled into insignificance on the day next to the cost of the tests. As Amanda says though, they do some pretty unique tests, and although expensive it's probably worth knowing before you waste thousands of ££'s on IVF cycles that might never work without some other interventions.

Memphis - I hope your down regging headaches are subsiding. They really are the pits. I think there is nothing worse than waking up with a headache  

Amanda, I'm glad you're appointment with Geeta went well today. Although I am sorry it made you sad. I hope you bounce back to your usual happy self quickly. I will IM you as I downloaded an article the other day re success with natural cycle IVF for women with high FSH. I really do think that natural cycle should be offered as an option before you are pushed down the stimulated IVF route. It would be a good introduction to the whole process without the expense or the toll on your body and I believe that consultants could learn lots about your issues by doing it - and hey, you might even get pregnant into the bargain  

I telephoned the clinic again today but didn't get much comfort. It would seem that the LFC provide a list of days and times that Create can use their facilities. I only spoke with Priscilla the assistant at Create - and she had to get off the phone as a patient arrived. She said she would call back but didn't. I am going for a scan on Tuesday and am going to question them hard on this. The more I think about it the more I feel this is a big issue for me. 

Looking at the info available on natural cycle IVF, it's all about timing. It is pretty hit and miss in any case with regards to catching the egg just at the right time. If you look at some of the US sites where they provide EC's round the clock they are still looking at quite low stats in terms of eggs collected for cycles started. And when you take at least 2 in 7 days out of the equation - you are further cutting your chances by almost a third.  

Priscilla says they also rarely do ET's at weekends so tend to try to avoid Thursdays for EC for that reason. There is also the other side of this which is that in order to avoid missing an egg they administer the HCG injection early to time EC for a Friday if they think you might go over a weekend. Again I think that just lowers the chances of a successful outcome. If that egg needed 2 more days to cook, it should get 2 more days to give you the best chance.  I had a previous bad experience with a clinic where they have set days for EC's and ET's and therefore take great comfort in the daily monitoring at the ARGC and the 24x7 approach. So .... although I am really really desperate to give natural cycle a shot unless I get some comfort on Tuesday I'm not going to go ahead with it. I feel I could be wasting valuable money. I guess the other question I need to ask is what happens in terms of money if you ovulate beforehand. Maybe you don't pay .... unlikely. Anyway I will report back with my findings.

Sorry for the long rant - I'm just trying to think out loud, so to speak, and decide in my head what I should do.

Take care,

Holly


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Holly,

I am so sorry to read your news, and completely understand how tough it must be, timing after all is key............ I was just wondering if it was at all possible to use something liek the pill before hand to bring your cycle into line with doing a natural at the bets times?? I know they use it for so me people at clinics where they want to control the influx of people?? Its just a thought and slightly against the grain of natural IVF but nothing ventured and all that....

Sorry Louise, I cant help you, I havent been to ARGC at all............ and dont know the protocol or anything there.............  I do know Geeta will perform any tests you think you need, even if she thinks you dont need them..... I could have had all the profiles that ARGC do if I had wanted, but under guidance decided that they wouldnt be necc........

Mands,

Hunni I am sorry your appointment left you sad sweetheart   and hope that you can pick yourself back up and move forward with your plans......


Well DF and I made up last night and your all right....... the BFN and 'timing' of stuff just got to us both and we both are still feeling very raw after our drastic collapse of IVF. he also feels we are rushing about trying to get answers instead of just taking stock..... he seems to have been affected more than he has let on in the past... he also seems really hung up on the idea that 15% of couples conceive naturally the cycle after a failed IVF.... so is really peed of that we messed up this month, which makes the whole arguing thing worse.......... but we have sorted ourselves out and hopefully wont be fighting anymore   specially as we are off to Paris next Thursday for the weekend, wouldnt be good to fighting there now would it  

Love and hugs

Debs
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Hi Ladies,

Thanks for the warm welcome.

Amanda - I'm sorry you felt sad after your appt with Geeta. From everything I;ve been reading today about Natural IVF it sounds like it has good results for women with with issues like high fsh. Wishing you luck for your results. yes, I'm doing acu and, for first time this cycle, herbs. Don't know what magic they do, but every time I've been my cycle has improved 100%. I was pleased to see you report that Geeta might recommend IUI. I've always been fighting for less invasive tx and more tailored to my needs.

Holly - thanks for your advice also. I've heard the ARGC costs can mount up. I'm glad I'm going to Geeta first. Could you possibly IM me the article too? Sorry for being cheeky. I can understand how timing with Natural IVF is a big issue. Shame that they don't run it like the ARGC 24/7. I'd read an article that states they delay you releasing the egg over the weekend rather than taking it early and that the stats had shown there was virtually no difference in success rates:
http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/16/2/259
I hope you find a solution you're comfortable with. It takes over, doesn't it.

Debs - I'm sorry you've had a rough time. It's hard enough going through IF nevermind all the other things going on aswell. Sounds like a weekend away would be just the thing.

Had a bit of a worrying chat with DP last night about possibility that we'll have to start paying for tx soon. I still find it hard to accept I've got issues. Tx might be a bit of a problem seeing as we have no spare cash. I've got an appointment to see Geeta on Dec 8th. Wondering if I could have asked my GP to refer me to her via her NHS clinic? Although that might mean a wait.

Sorry for big post. Hope I've not rambled on too much,

Lou
x


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## Morvern (May 16, 2005)

Hello everyone

Since I got my high FSH diagnosis (11)  in August I've been looking around for alternatives and would love to  see Geeta. Only problem is I live in The North. I'm going to CARE on Friday for a first consultation but they might not agree to treat me unless I can get my FSH below 10 (the NHS turned me away immediately without offering any treatment - the consultant actually said "There's nothing I can do."). As I've only just turned 33 and have no other issues that I know about I found that a bit hard to take. Anyway, my question is, would it be possible to get long-distance treatment with Geeta - or does the 'natural' bit mean that it would be practically impossible to get the timings rights? Any thoughts greatly apreciated.


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Welcome Del and Morvern,

Morvern, I've just started a Natural Cycle and I thought it would be quite onerous in terms of monitoring, but it does not seem to be. I had a scan today (day 7), the first this cycle and I don't have another one till next Tues (Day 14). I am a little nervous about that I have to say,  - but on that basis I would say it could be do-able from The North.

I didn't see Geeta today as she is away so the Prof scanned me. He didn't know much about the payment etc for Natural Cycle if it is cancelled due to early ovulation, so I will have to wait till Geeta is back to discuss that with her. I appear to have a dominant follicle on my left ovary this month - which is my poor performing one - but I guess you never know. I do have 2 on my right which are not too far behind and then lots of small ones.

I start stimming on Thursday with 100 iu Gonal F and also a daily injection of Orgalutron. I was given a perscription for the Orgalutron today but have since discovered there is a national shortage of the drug. No chemist seems to have it, and I have phoned the big ones and those recommended on this site for Fertility drugs. I can order it, but it will take a couple of days, which is too late. I don't quite know what I'm going to do. I will have to phone the clinic tomorrow and ask what to do. They don't hold a supply of drugs themselves apparently. Things never seem to run smoothly, do they?

I have decided that I will give this cycle a go as I am likely to ovulate early next week so can avoid the weekend black out period. I am a bit concerned about not being scanned again for another 7 days, but the Prof seemed cool about it, so I guess I should stop worrying!

Memphis - how is your cycle going? You must be almost ready to start stimming.

Debs - hope you and DF are happy bunnies these days.

Hi to Lou and Amanda,

Holly


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Hi guys.........

I was at clinic too yesterday Holly how spooky........ isnt the Prof lovely   I felt really sorry for them as they were really struggling just the two of them..............

well we are not sure what is happening now, it appears that I have active endo again   so I have to wait for Getta to come back and we will see where we go from there..... my blood results still arent back, they take 10 days   jeez so still have to see what that says yet!!

DF and I are doing fine thanks hunni, its the others around us that arent   

I hope everyone is well??

Love and hugs

debs
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Hiya,

Brr! It's chilly this morning.

Del - I'm so heartened to hear you felt so positive from your appt with Geeta. Can't wait for mine. When you monitored your cycle for 2 years, do you mean you charted your temp and other signs?  I used to chart and should start again really, as it would be useful for my acupuncturist. 

Movern - I'll leave the advice on the practicality of having natural ivf tx from the north to the ladies who've gone through the cycles. I'm a newbie to assisted tx. I'm sorry you've been so let down by the NHS so far. I hope you find a solution. Maybe we need to campaign for more clinics to offer a drug free/reduced option.   But I fear they make too much money and prefer the scheduling capability that assisted cycles provide them with.

Holly - I'm surprised that you'll not be scanned for another 7 days. How long are your cycles normally? Have you got the contact for the pharmacy in Italy that some girls use? I can IM it for you. They're very good, fast (can send by courier) and not expensive. Hope you get things sorted.  

Debs - Sorry to hear you have endo again.   When will you manage to see Geeta again? I hope soon. I wish this was all easier on everyone. I really hope you find some answers soon and can get started on another tx cycle.

I'm still very excited about my appt with Geeta on the 8th. It's my first step towards IVF, so a lot of this is new to me despite me being 4 years down the road. I'm booked in for another natural IUI next week. I'm curious to see if the acu and herbs I'm doing will have helped my lining. Barts have refused to give me anything for it, refused to do scans on the day of the IUI to check lining but I think this attitude towards unassisted tx is nothing  unusual. I might go for a scan myself to check, but really can't afford extras atm. I was wondering if anyone knows anyone that BFPs from natural IVFs at Create.  I've tried to find the stats on the HFEA site on the LFC section and not found a reference to natural IVF. 

Lou
x


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## MarthaF (May 19, 2004)

Hi everyone.  Sorry I have been away for ages.  Work has been manic - lots of stuff going on, not great for the stress levels but hey!

Have started a gently stimmed cycle this time.......I am finding that the fact that Geeta is not around is making the others really stretched but bless em all, they have really done their best.  I am being scanned by Prof on Monday up at Create and I start stimming tonight!  Eeeek!!!!

Holly - re: the shortage of Orgalutron, I am getting Prof to give me a script and then am collecting it from LFC which is just around the corner.  Apparently they have lots..?  I hope so.  Lizzy has said that I can use Cetrocide if not!  Best of luck with this cycle........nice and gently does it!  

Debs- really sorry to hear about the endo flaring up again.  I hope the blood results come soon.  Glad you and DF are back on track.......this whole thing is so stressful, it really challenges your relationships to the limit.

Hello to everyone else.  This group is really gathering pace.  Good luck and promise to write more often and do more personals in future!!

Lots of love 
Martha xxx


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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

hi girls

Morvern, sorry I can't offer any advice on monitoring or anything as I have not yet started all my tx with Geeta - so I have no idea myself yet. But have you tried accupuncture for your fsh levels, or mackerel oil or wheatgrass - it is all meant to help in lowering fsh levels, if you need to go down the medicated route at Care.

Del, sorry I havent responded to your email but thanks for that, and I am really pleased you feel so positive about tx with Geeta. We'll have a proper chin wag next week x

Holly, I was wondering if your drug that was hard to come by was a suppressant and I think it is, if it's the same as cetrotide, so that's probably why they are not worried about scanning you before hand. But after all the regular daily checks at argc it does seem like an extreme opposite, doesnt it?!! Great news about all your follies though

Debs - what a bummer re your endo. One of my friends gets it really badly, and went to see a nutritionist called Diane Shephard Mills - who specialises in this area. She says that she has helped her fabulously. I hope u can get it sorted, and that it doesnt get in the way of your plans

Martha - welcome back and best of luck with this cycle x Don't be working too hard.

Hi Lou - I am sure you accup and herbs will really have made a difference - hope you get some great test results back

Memphis - hope you are ok and that everything is going smoothly

No news from me - just waiting for my blood test results back, dont really want to call them yet when I know they are short staffed without Geeta. Do they phone you? or do I need to prompt them?

Love to everyone - I hope I havent forgotten anyone

Amanda xxx


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Hi Girls,

Isnt the list growing  

With your blood results Mands, they usually send them out in the post unless you have another appointment with them sooner..........


Martha, good to know your on a cycle now, Its nice when we have somone cycling..

Holly I am so glad you are also cycling along nicely...... I bet it is a culture shock after all the visits to ARGC to just have two scans...... I can only go on my own experiences and trust them completely to get me where I want to be...... I am sure Geeta knows how its going to work for you, judging on the size of your follies etc   she is pretty good at guessing OV dates   I think from my dim recollection, that if you get to EC but not transfer there is a fee of £300.00 payable to LGFC, but I would say if you OV early, you wouldnt even get that far.......... am fairly sure that if you dont get to LGFC there is no charge to them at all...... 

 Lou...... my isnt your appointment coming closer and closer!! You need to tell work to go and take a jump and have a nice relaxing December  

well if my bloods all come back ok, even if they dont, I think we will be replacing our snowbabies next month (if they thaw ok   ) so we may all end up cycling together   we should try and get a coffee together or something  

Hugs

Debs
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Morvern (May 16, 2005)

Hi all

thanks for responding and for offering me your thoughts - it's good to know it may be possible to see Geeta.  I've been doing acupuncture and wheatgrass and vitamin stuff (but I must say I'm doing it less lately - taking 15 pills a day tends to pall). I've decided I'm going to go to this first appointment at Care, but if they seem discouraging or like they don't know what they're doing I'll think seriously about Geeta. As I say I've never even had any treatment so I don't know if I respond to stimms or not. I was just totally written off with one FSH test of 11 (4 months previously my FSH had been 3) - the consultant couldn't get me out of the door quickly enough.

Best of luck to all of you.


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Morning all!

Sat up in bed with my laptop catching up on posts. Thinking about whether to have porridge and nuts (healthy option) or toast (mmmm).  

Martha - Good luck for your scan on Monday! So good that you're starting another tx again. Sending you    

Movern - I know a lady who had extremely high fsh in the 80s. She lowered it to 6 in 3 months with a combination of diet, organic food, no alcohol, wheatgrass and acupuncture. Hope you get some answers at Care.

Amanda - hope you get your test results back in soon and can start tx soon.

Holly - did you get your drugs ok? Where are you now in your tx cycle?

Debs - I'd have to tell myself and DP that I'm not working in Dec!   We work together at home! Which can be a good and bad thing. I don't get sick pay, holidays etc. But I'm very flexible and get to go to all my appointments. So exciting you about to start a frostie cycle. I think it would be a lovely idea to meet up for a coffee (or in my case a herbal tea!).

Adele - I take flax seed oil as recommended by Marilyn Glenville's book. I used to take EPO, but it should only be taken from the start of your period up to O because it can cause uterine contractions. Great to hear Geeta does work with nutritionists, that just what I want. I've been banging on about a link with my IBS flare ups and my cycle for years. Here's a little AF dance for you.          


I had a scan on Friday which was CD9. Lining was 6.8mm. In Oct ot was 5.9mm on CD11. So I think that's an improvement. They still had a chat with me about it and say they want me to have hysteroscopy if this cycle of IUI not successful which could take 5-6 months to get done! They suspect could be due to problem with the lining rather than hormonal. I had two D&Cs in past which could be cause. Not sure what could be done if that was the case. Shame they wasted time on this this summer.   But hey, I'm still feeling good about going to see Geeta next Fri.   I'm having another scan Monday and should be doing IUI Tues.

Have good Sunday, ladies.

Lou
x


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## JR68 (Sep 20, 2005)

Hi all

Fairly new to this site - posted a couple of time in different areas but just looking for some info really.  We had a failed ICSI last year due to DP's sperm - failed vas reversal - not thawing properly and only option then was to go IUS with donor sperm.  We had a unmedicated DIUI Jan this year and got a +ve only to have to terminate @ 19 weeks due to chromosome disorder.  Tried again October and another failure.  Feeling pretty devastated at the mo but trying to look into other options and noticed this post on natural IVF.  Would someone please be able to tell me how it works - just a bit confused as I thought the point of IVF was to get your ovaries to produce as many eggs as possible?  Also how successful is it is comparison to medicated IVF.  I'm really interested in no drugs as I'm diabetic and different things can sometimes throw control out.

Thanks

JR68


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Hi Jr68 - Really sorry about your loss. Sounds like you've been having a really hard time. Natural IVf just means they don't try to get you to artifically produce more than one follicle. They collect the one egg you naturally produce. IVF just means that you collect the egg and fertilise it outside the woman's body before putting it back. The first IVF babies were natural IVF babies. Hormone induced stimulation was introduced later. If you take Natural IVF as a course of 4 treatments the stats are very good. You can do them back to back because you don't have to rest between cycles. They are cheaper because much of the costs of drug assisted cycles is spent on drugs. Geeta one of the founders of the Care clinic http://www.createhealth.org/ has written a paper on results http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/16/2/259. I'm seeing Geeta for the first time next week. Some of the other girls on this thread have already been through cycles with them.

Good luck.

Louise
x

"This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.UK or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites!"


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Hi girls,

JR68 - welcome to the thread. I'm really sorry to hear about your misfortunes. What a terrible time you have had. The basis of Natural Cycle IVF is to collect the egg that is produced naturally on a monthly basis and then perform IVF. No drugs are involved - apart from the trigger injection, and possibly some support after embryo transfer. The success rates are pretty low compared with medicated IVF - less than 10%, and can be as low as 4% or 5% depending on your situation. However, the advantage is that you can do it month after month as there are no drugs involved so my understanding is that when you look at the success rates over a number of attempts they start to stack up against conventional IVF. Hope this helps. I'm sure the others will have other things to add to this.

Lou - good luck with the IUI

Martha - are you doing a modified Natural Cycle this time round? Where are you with it and what's the protocol? Sounds like we might be on a similar time frame.

Memphis - you must be at the stimming stage by now? Hope all is going well for you.

I have to say I am very nervous about this cycle, it's the lack of monitoring that's doing my head in. I did manage to get my drugs - I got them from the LFC. I had to have them collected for me by my secretary in the end as it was difficult for me to get there with work commitments. A bit of a nightmare really - not something you want your secretary knowing about to be honest   I have my next scan on Tuesday at 6pm and am convinced that will be too late. It will be end of day 14 - so that means the earliest I could have EC is day 16. I think that's really late, so it's freaking me out   Also, i don't have any trigger drugs. Does anyone know if St Georges carry a supply of the trigger drug as I don't fancy my chances of laying my hands on a supply at 7pm Tuesday evening?

Hope everyone else is doing OK - particularly those waiting for results. Don't the days pass slowly  

Take care all,

Holly


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## Morvern (May 16, 2005)

Hi All

thanks for responding to my post. After seeing Care on saturday I'm seriously thinking about contacting Geeta. Care said that they will measure my FSH again and if it comes back above 12 they won't be able to treat me. In July it was 11 so I'm understandably pretty worried. 

I can't believe that, at the age of 33 and having been offered no treatment whatsoever I am on the verge of getting dumped by my second clinic.

I'm also worried that, even if my FSH comes back below 12, all Care will do is give me clomid. Sorry for the moan, I'm just a bit frustrated. Does anyone know if Geeta gives phone consultations? And does she charge for them? Thanks for any help.


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## JR68 (Sep 20, 2005)

Hi ladies

Thanks for the info.  Yes we've had a pretty bad time of it lately but then so has everyone really if they're involved in these sites.  I think the only difference - and probably most cruelest thing of all - was that we got so close and then had it all snatched away.  My problem is I'm such a doom and gloom person anyway but since losing the baby I've had everything run through my head the reasons it happened - why did it happen, am I going to be ill or even die, to possibly the most thought one that we'll never be so lucky to get pregnant again let alone have a healthy baby  .  Unfortunately I know all these thoughts are pretty much the same for everyone but each individual has to deal with them and overcome them and I don't feel like I'm coping to well.  Not particularly with the loss just the thought that we're never going to be parents (or me as partner already has 2 from prev marriage).  I just wish I could get up and move on but I can't and I can't even think 'I just need time' cos the more time that passes and the more failures we get are making me worse - and more conscious of my age (just turned 37).  

Anyway must look to further treatment. Does anyone know if all clinics do unmedicated or is it just certain ones?  Also does anyone know what the success rates are against say a medicated IUI?  I'm also concerned about the multiple birth scenario with being diabetic so that kind of gets rid of that worry too.

Sorry for so many questions I just feel I need to be armed and make plans - I'm sure everyone knows what I mean.

Good luck to all facing treatment soon or in their 2ww.

JR68 xx


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Sorry this is a "me"  post

Am completely p'ed off. As predicted, I went for my scan today and my follicle is ready for collection. But they don't do EC at the weekend and Geeta says the follicle won't last till Monday so I have 2 options - do nothing or do IUI. I hate just leaving it, it's such a waste of effort and money - The drugs have not been cheap. £400 on Orgalutron, £200 on Gonal F, so I have no option but to shell out another £450 and go for IUI really. I am so cross.

Sorry for the rant. 

Holly


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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

Hi girls, this is a very me post – so I am very sorry to be so indulgent
I am off to NY shortly so I just wanted to send an update before I went, I promise to respond and send more personals when I get back

I just had some FAB news!!!! I saw geeta and the prof this morning – my endo/ lining was great, my corp lut was great, my blood flow was good and there were 5 and 4 an follies (what does that mean? Is that all I have left or something?)
My fsh was down to 7.1 on day 3 – when it is normally in the high teens on day 1!!!! And my inhibin b test came back as 142 or 146

I am so pleased, as I think it is the most positive news I have had in 6 years.
Hoooray for that!
My cycle falls over xmas for the next one – so going to try iui in Jan
Bring it on!!!


Holly - sorry to hear about your news - that's really crappy. will post more on this 
Welcome to JR68 x

Much love and luck girls
Amanda xx


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

hello!

Amanda - So pleased for you about your FSH result. Such brilliant news. Did you do anything in particular to get it down? I'm curious as I'm concerned mine is climbing fast.

Holly - sorry you feeling frustrated. This would really worry me too. It seems like this is one area where improvements could be made to the service offered, especially since timing on a natural cycle is so crucial. If only they offered weekend EC and ET. Hope you get lucky on the IUI.

JR68 - I think there are very few clinics that do natural cycles. I've only found this Create.

Movern - I'm always fighting being offered clomid too. Geeta seems to be against just dolling out drugs left right and centre unless they are needed. I don't know if she does phone consultations. Maybe call the clinic to enquire.

Me, I had a funny day on Monday which CD12. My lining was 9.4 woo-hoo! So my chinese herbs and the acupuncture from the lovely Daniels must have worked. The previous Friday CD9 I'd had a large follie at 18mm. On the Monday, they couldn't find it. But I'd not picked up a +ve on the OPKs. So, it looked like I'd missed it. Decided I might have Od on the Monday so called up DP to get his **** down the hosp. He'd got no cash on him and for some reason his bank card wouldn't work. So I went home to get him and come in together. So, now on the 2ww. I test on Dec12. Not too sure about whole thing as I've no idea when I Od. moral of the story is to test in morning as well as afternoon as readings are better in afternoon.
Bad news is I got my latest FSH reading and it's 9.2. It was 8 in June and 3.9 in 2004. So not happy about that rise.

Enough about me. Let me know how you all getting on.

Lou
x


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## memphis (Apr 4, 2005)

So sorry for going AWOL - DH and I had to up and move home as we found tennants for our flat. It all happened very quickly as the the lady in question was was about ot have a baby and wanted to move in within a week or so  . So we spent the best part of a fortnight packing etc. All done and we are safely pitched up at my in-laws  .

I have been cycling in the middle of all this and have been stimming for 5 days. Just had a scan today and there seems to be a small amount of activity on the right ovary. Poor old lefty is knackered though and not doing anything  . So will continue on the low dose and pray for some sort of result.

Sorry for the lack of personals but as usual wishing each and every one of you the best   

Take care!!


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Sooooooooo Cross I wrote a long post and it got lost in the ether  

Hi girls....

Sorry I have been awol too but I have been laid up with pulled muscles in my neck and back   I have got my blood results back and all negative so no reason why my last tx didnt work   We have decided to give FET a miss this month as I am fed up with being prodded and poked about I also havent heard back from Geetha re my endo returning   so we are going to enjoy xmas and life and start again in the new year.... I will be reading the thread to make sure your all ok etc and keep up with the news  

Much love and luck to Memphis and London lou   

Love and luck to you all 

Debs
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Dear all,

Good to hear everyone's news.

Amanda - so pleased you got such great results. My understanding is that they count the antral follicles they can see early in your cycle on each ovary. Your body naturally picks one of those as the dominant one for ovulation. The others just dissappear. A few on each ovary is a good indication of ovarian reserve - so looks like a good result to me   Hope you're having a lovely time in NY.

Lou - Sorry to hear about your mercy dash to catch the egg in time. What a business this is   I hope that it's a lucky one for you. It would make a good story afterwards.

Memphis - can't believe you've moved house in the middle of all this. It must have been quite stressful. I hope you get on well with your in-laws. Lots of     follicle growing vibes to you.

Debs - sorry to hear about the muscles. Hope you have recovered now. What a faff about your results. It's a mixed up world - the consultant says, great news we've found nothing wrong, but what you really want them to say is they have found something wrong. At least then you have a reason - and possibly even a solution. Otherwise you just feel left in a kind of limbo. Good idea to enjoy Christmas and New year before you start again.

As for me - well I don't know whether to be pleased of even more annoyed. I had my IUI yesterday. When I was scanned yesterday there were two follicles - one on my right and one on my left. It's been a bit of a farce with the follicles to be honest. At my first scan the prof saw a dominant follicle on my left - with 2 on my right not far behind which he felt with a bit of stimulation might progress. At my second scan Geeta saw a reasonably large one on my right, but nothing at all on my left   then on my 3rd scan Geeta saw a huge follicle (20mm) on my left and a very small one on my right    . She said that the fact there was only one follicle in any case that IUI was probably the better option. But finally yesterday she saw two large follicles - one on my left and one on my right    . So I ought to be really happy as I have had IUI with 2 good follicles. But I really feel cheated as I could have had a very good stab at IVF with those 2 follicles. If the theory of Natural cycle is correct then even after large doses of stims these are probably the 2 eggs that would have been replaced as embryos - with the added advantage with Natural Cycle of avoiding the large doses of drugs - so theoretically they should be in a pretty good state. I have endo - so IUI is really not a viable option for me so I feel I am wasting my time. However, I am on the 2WW officially, and you just never know. It's certainly better than just trying naturally, I am an optimist by nature so I am now convinced I will be expecting twins very shortly  

My official test will be the 19th - so a week after you Lou, although if past form is anything to go by I will be testing long before this date. I just can't resist.

Off to purchase some cheapy HPT's on the internet,

Holly


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Debs - poor you! I can understand why you feel like a rest from the tx. Quite a few girls I know are having a rest over xmas. Recharge your batteries for the new year.

holly - I can understand why you feel frustrated. I hate it myself when I come against unflexible systems that could be made so much better for minor changes. On the positive side you have got a much better chance than a natural cycles and you sound like you've got the possibility of two follies? Crossing my fingers and toes for you. Welcome to another 2ww. May it be swift and bring good news.

Me, I'm convinced I feel pg, but then I always do. I've got massive and tender boobs. Nothing new there. I'm also convinced I'm not pg. Nothing new there. Classic 2ww. But halfway there. test on the 12th. If it's BFN I'll not be cycling until the new year because it will clash with xmas holidays.

Hope everyone else ok.

Lou
x

p.s. Holly, I will be testing on more than one occaision I think! I have lots of tests stashed away.


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## MarthaF (May 19, 2004)

Hello everyone

I am sorry I have been away for so long.  You have all been so busy.......Talk about stress city!  This is why I have not been posting......sorry.  I have felt like a bit of a fraud because I am not officially natural cycling this time......but the low protocol seems to have done me good.

Holly - I am really gutted for you.  I never realised that they could not do anything for you at a weekend.........with a natural cycle, timing is everything.....how has this happened Surely Geeta must know?  I will keep everything crossed for you - you never know.........this could be the one (or two!!!).  Don't lose hope.......

Debs - I hope your back is better.......back pain is up there as one of the worst pains.  Take it easy and recharge your batteries over Christmas........2006 here we come!

Memphis - Hope your right ov is bringing you on.  Let us know how things are going....are you with Geeta?

Lou - Keeping everything crossed for the 12th........no cheating!!! Ha ha!

Sorry for the "me" post.....but let me bring you up to date............started a gentle stim cycle this time (to use some drugs up that expire this month).  2 follies grew really quickly and I was only stimming for 7 days (150 menopur).  Triggered and was all set for EC on day 11 (last Friday).....I thought it was too early.  Work has been absolutely horrendous - I have no team and am basically trying to do about 3 peoples work and cope with all this!  The good news was that they got 3 eggs and all were suitable for ICSI.  Next day we were told that 2 had fertilised and we had ET scheduled on Sunday.  They normally do day 3 ET at LFC so that they can select the best but because we only had 2, no need to wait.  To cut a very long story short, DH was a sick as a parrot on Sunday morning so I set off on my own and called LFC because my trains were either cancelled/delayed and I was getting very anxious.  Talk about being stressed out.  The embryologist I spoke to was so lovely.  She told us we had 2 nice embies, a 4 cell and a 5 cell............and said to come in on Monday...........so I did.  On Monday morning I called for the time and the embies were now 8 cell and 9 cell.  They had doubled overnight and were both grade 3/4 out of 4.  Eeeeek!!!!  I am now home to Pinky and Perky who came on board on Monday lunchtime.  I hope they hang around in here for the next 9 months!

Jeez..........I am keeping everything crossed now......cyclogest twice daily (what lovely wind it gives you!).  I so want to be pg by Christmas and am now dreaming of twins!  This is the second time I have got this far - the last time was 2 years ago!  I have forgotten how doolally you go!  I have turned into a complete muppet.  My memory is crap and I can't think straight about anything.  The scary nurse at LFC is actually really sweet and said "well my love, you are now technically pregnant....good luck".......!  

So I am testing on the 16th and hope that I get that far....AF arrived 2 days before test date last time........

Sorry to do such a long post but you have all been so supportive and I needed to make the time to message you all.........

Wishing us all the best of luck - we deserve it!

Lots of love
Martha xxx


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Martha - what a nightmare - but it all worked out well in the end. Very best of luck with your 2WW. Sounds like you have two excellent embies on board. Definitely twins I would say   

Are you having a blood test on the 16th? I've been told not to test till the 19th - just a HPT. I'd much rather do a blood test   Will have lost my marbles by the 19th


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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

Hi Girls

thanks for all your lovely messages. had a great time in NYC knowing that a little ray of light had entered my future! 
You've all been busy bunnies whilst I was off - so I hope my messages are not too out of date.

Debs -I hope your neck and back are on the mend and less painful. I hope u pamper yourself over xmas in anticipation for all the good behaviour when you start back on tx.

Holly - I really hope u r relaxing and that your 2 follies have fertilised and are doing you proud. I hope the 2ww is not sending you nuts x

Lou - great news that you are feeling PG - thats such a positive way to feel and I truly hope that you are right on the button - how fab would that be for xmas! I hope u and DH are remembering that you are NOT working, and that you def wont need the hysteroscopy.

JR68 sorry to hear about all your sad news - but I really hope that your fortunes are about to change for the better. I am not sure if any of the other clinics offer the drug free option, I am not sure if they do, as they are often result driven and I suppose they work on the 'more the merrier' idea when it comes to stimming your eggs. But I would phone around and ask if you want some other clinics prices and thoughts on it.

Martha - wow! re your cells - I hope that Pinky and Perky are doing you proud and multiplying at a lovely rate, I hope u r managing to relax too. What a great way to start your 2ww - with such positive news

Morvern - I am certain that reflexology and not being so stressed has really helped my fsh levels - my reflexologist is going to be getting a xmas pressie this year! I really recommend it actually - and I have accup too - but i think I have been quite responsive to reflexology and I also find it relaxing - judging by my best fsh result in 18months - it has to be helping in some respect

Memphis - I hope your stimming is going well and that you have settled after your move

wishing you all nice BFP's and a lot of love and luck wherever you are in tx
Amanda xx


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Welcome back Amanda .... glad to hear your NY trip went well. Hope you did lots of lovely Christmas shopping.

Lou - not long now. I hope you are not going around the twist. Good luck for Monday     and lots of    

Martha - hope you are relaxing and not stressing too much during your 2WW.

Memphis - hope things are ok at your MIL's and that your right ovary is doing you proud.

I've ordered a whole stack of cheap pregnancy tests from the internet - several different brands - in anticipation of the testing frenzy that is likely to commence around this time next week  

Wishing you all a lovely weekend,

Holly


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Hiya!

Holly - Good  luck to you too! The only reason I'm not testing is because I'm temping which kind of like testing!    

Amanda - So good you feeling more positive. Not sure I'm feeling pg in the good sense. More that my normal cycle symptoms are pg symptons. Hey ho! Here's to a happy 2006 for everyone.

Martha - Hope you managing to stay sane until the 16th. So glad you got those embies on board where they can settle in. Wishing you.    

The me bit.
I went to see Geeta yesterday. She was really nice. She suggests I do a ovarian reserve scan because of my rising fsh. She think's I can do more IUI with her before trying ivf which is good. She explained that the way she does IUI is highly monitored and would do it with a trigger shot rather than opks. Also she would do a post basting scan a few days later to check blood flow. Because it's IUI not ivf, they can also do weekends. Good thing is she said she wouldn't complete the IUI if lining was less than 7mm, which is different to Barts. So, I'm going to decide whether to try my last free cycle of natural IUI at Barts in Jan. Maybe I'll ask them if they could do it with a trigger shot. 

Much love

Lou
x


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Well  - all over for me I'm afraid.   arrived yesterday only 11 days after IUI.

Think it's over and out for me on this one. I really do believe in the Natural Cycle approach, but I couldn't go through this again knowing that I run the risk of needing EC on a Sat or a Sun (effectively one third of the time eliminated). I produced 2 great follies this time round on minimal stimulation - but to not have them collected was absolutely gutting for me.

I will keep in touch as maybe when Geeta gets her licence she will provide EC 7 days and I would definitely give it another go. In the meantime it's back to the ARGC for me where incidentally they seem to have some kind of a breakthrough. I have never seen so many BFP's as there have been over the past 6 weeks or so, and up to 75% of them seem to be twins.

Best of luck to you all. I hope you all achieve your dream - and very soon.

Take care,

Holly.


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Hi Holly,

So sorry that the witch turned up for you   

I am really concerned with this weekend thing, as I have just been to see Geeta and I specifically asked her about this EC and ET on weekends and she said they work 7 days a week and I quote " I couldn't do natural if they didn't work weekends"    so I am really puzzled as too whats going on here............... they had some problems 18 mths ago whereby they had to pay extra for a Dr to come in specially but that is NOT the case now..... I am going to email this link and hopefully they will put this to bed once and for all. What do you girls think

Incidentally I will be doing a natural cycle next year   yippeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Lou how are you doing sweetie?

I hope all of you other sweeties are doing ok??

Love and hugs

Debs
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Good to hear from you Debs and that you are planning a Natural Cycle next year. Make sure you enjoy Christmas first though  

The problem is not with St Georges - Geeta does work 7 days if required, and I proved it as she did my IUI on a Saturday. The problem is that the LFC don't do EC's over the weekend. As Geeta relys on them for this piece she has no option. I have spoken to her about it and she recognises it as a problem but not one she can overcome without having a licence herself. I think it will resolve itself once this happens, but until then I am not prepared to go through this again.

Anyway, I'm off to pour myself a glass of wine. There are some benefits


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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

hi girls

Holly - I am so, so sorry to hear that u were not successful and I can see why u r returning to argc- they are having a roaring success at the moment.
I really want to give the natural go a shot - even if it has to be stimmed iui, just because it's an approach I havent been offered before - i would love to see what minimum stimms can do in regards egg quality.
I hope your next go with ARGC will put u up there with the lovely positive statistics they are having at the mo with bfp's. best of luck.
sorry this is a short post with no more mentions - but have to go and have a tidy round as the house looks like a bomb site! 
much love to u all
Amanda xxx


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

No I specifically asked how it would work if I was due to OV over the weekend.... she said not a problem LGFC do it when necc! so not quite sure what is going on there!


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## memphis (Apr 4, 2005)

Hello girls,

Time for an update. So sorry for the silence. Things happen quite quickly when you're trying to cycle and go on with normal life such as work etc. 

First of all - Holly sorry to hear your news. Was hoping this one would do it for you. Have a good break and good luck in the new year.

Well stims went well for me and I managed to produce 6 eggs, 4 of which were mature and ok quality on 150 Puregon. Then I got abit disappointed as only one fertilsed and I had 2 day transfer on Wednesday with a single 2 cell embryo. So as you can imagine I am not holding out much hope. The only thing is that this cycle has been a real eye opener as I have felt absolutely fine through stims with hardly any side effects. The fact that I can produce reasonable eggs on low stims is a step forward for me and I now don't dread doing another cycle. Geeta has been just wonderful and has been keeping in touch to see how I am. I think that's just amazing for a Consultant as busy as she is. So, onwards and upwards in the new year!!

Hope you are all well.


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Hi everyone,

Holly - Sending you big hugs hon'. So sorry. Do you know exactly when you ovulated? Have you defintely got an 11 day luteal phase? I didn't think it was possible for this to be affected on a natural cycle.  Is it possible you O'd earlier? I'll try and find out more details in new year about this stuff. Hugs.

Memphis - I can see you might be worried about having only one embie back on board, but it hs a good chance of working for you, hon. Thinking of you in this 2ww. Sending you    

Debs - I'm really confused about the weekend thing. I would feel happier if we didn't send links to the clinics from this forum. I know we can't stop them reading things, but I've had friends on other threads have quite negative experiences when clinics find out about discussions. But I would really like to get to bottom of Holly's experience.

Amanda - hope the reflexology is still working. Sounds really good. Maybe I'll try it.

Been away for work in Milan last few days. We ended up arriving on two hours sleep. DP and I had to present in this really super minimal design place, so I felt very wrinkly. Good news is we got the contract! And then another friend called me today to offer me freelance work for the new year. Not sure I can take it. But was good to be wanted for a while. Starting the pee sticks tomorrow for a natural DIY cycle. Will be booking in for ovarian reserve scan in Jan.

Hope everyone is fine.

Lou
x


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Hi girls,

Lou - did I miss a BFN then? So sorry   . Hopefully the work frenzy is taking your mind off it. Congrats on winning the contract. Does this mean more trips to Milan? I feel some shoes and bags coming on  I have always maintained that I have a short luteal phase, although I think 11 days is not considered to be that short. It's a bit more difficult to judge on just my normal cycle - but I would always have said it was 10-12 days. But it has been like clockwork on my 2 failed IVF's - day 11, and then the same on this IUI. Someone on the ARGC board said I should post on the immune issues board as she thought she had read something about Day 11 being significant - but I have had all the immune testing that the ARGC offer and they have come back OK. Good luck with the pee sticks. Do you ever get the feeling that you spend your life peeing on sticks  

Memphis - what a result   What drug levels were you on in the past, and what was your egg yield? Definitely definitely I think there is something in this gently gently approach. How many days did you stim for? Please please don't give up hope. What has prompted me to investigate the lower or indeed no drugs theory is my own success. My successful IVF was on a much lower dose of stims, I produced 5 eggs, 3 fertilised, but we only had one remaining at transfer. That was a 4 cell. The only reason I had a day 3 transfer was because Guys did not do transfers over the weekend, otherwise it would have been a day 2, and I am sure it would only have been 2 cells at that point. My little 4 cell is now 2 years old. Rest up for the next 2 weeks.

Amanda - hope your house is sparkling  

Debs - the bottom line is I couldn't have EC on a Sat - but I did have IUI. I could have waited till the Monday, but Geeta did not believe my follicles would last that long, so hence the decision to proceed with IUI. Indeed one of them had already popped when she scanned me for IUI. I will follow up again on this at my review as I would really like to go all the way through with a Natural Cycle with some gentle stimming. I agree with Lou about sending the link. Why don't you just call and ask?

Take care,

Holly


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

HI Girls,

I am not going to send the link...... Had already decided probably wasnt a good idea anyway.....

I dont need to call as I asked when we had a consult last week and she was ADAMANT that LGFC worked weekends for EC and ET..... I specifically said how would it work if I was due to OV over the weekend..... she said No Problem, they work 7 days a week and if they didnt she wouldnt be able to do natural IVF at all............. so I dont quite know where the cinfusion is but I guess we will see next year as I always OV at the weekend!!

Lou I guess you got a -ve result hun?   so sorry. although as Holly said Milan sounds good....... ohhh I love it the shoes the bags the food........   

Memphis keeping everything crossed for you hunni     have a lovely relaxing xmas and heres to hoping the new year brings you everything you wish for  

Hugs

Debs
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Hi Debs,

Sorry if I appear pedantic about this issue - but you must understand that I have just been through a cycle where I was unable to have EC at a weekend and am trying to deal with that disappointment... so in order to ensure that I was not hallucinating I have just called both the London Fertility clinic and Create and they do NOT do Egg Collections at the weekend. 

If you are relying on this service please please call them yourself as I would not want you to be dissappointed when it cannot be offered.

Holly


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## nats210 (Apr 25, 2005)

Hello

just reading through the posts are you sure you are talking about the same clinic.

I noticed Debs was talking about LGFC & Holly talking about LFC?


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Hi Girls!

Holly - yeah, you did miss another BFN, but I don't think it really counts seeing as I totally missed catching the egg. Milan is actually my least fave place in Italy. I love going to see my friends. But the food ain't as good as other parts, it can be miserable weather. As for shoes and bags! I'm afraid I let the side down on the shopping front. Maybe now I've landed a new contract I'll pick up form. have you done your temps for one full cycle so you can see for yourself how your luteal phase is? Might be a good idea to see where in your cycle your temp starts dropping. Could indicate a hormone deficiency of some kind. (Progesterone?)

Debs -  I wonder why they told you they do do EC at weekends? The plot thickens.

Nats - Hello! How are you doing? Didn't know you were in this thread too.

Have been on a bit of a roll this week. Maybe got another job offer, so I'll have to decide what to do. 
Haven't got anything in yet for xmas. Eek!


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## memphis (Apr 4, 2005)

aahh  Holly - thank you so much for your kind wishes and sorry to hear about the BFN . I was just wondering, if you really want to go back to ARGC is it worth asking them to try a low dose cycle?

My record is as follows:-

ICSI 1: 300-450 menopur c14 days - 7 eggs 2 top grade embies
ICSI 2: 450-300 menopur c14  days - 19 eggs 4 ok embies - none to freeze
ICSI 3: 450-300 gonalF c14 days - 11 eggs 2 poor embies
ICSI 4: 450-600 puregon c14 days - 17 eggs 2 good embies
ICSI 5: 150 puegon c14 days - 6 eggs 1 2 cell good embryo.

.................still no baby  

Thanks also to everyone for all your lovely messages. I am always amazed that with all your own pain you girls always manage to find kindness for others. As for an update I am now getting my usual pre-menstrual symptoms so am pretty sure my christmas present will be AF   

Well , onwards and upwards. Hope you all have a great christmas and pray for a good new year for us. 
Take care xxxxxxx


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Well Girls,

I hope you all had a fab christmas with lots of lovely pressies and lets hope 2006 is our year!!!

Well I am very confused and a little unsure of what is going on but Mirel called me before christmas for my payment and I asked her to confirm for me that all will be ok if I ov on the weekend.......... she left me a voice mail at work that I have just picked up saying that LGFC do work weekends up until 4pm. So its all steam ahead for me and a natural next month and we will see what happens as I know I will OV over the weekend as I am late as per usual this month when waiting to start something   I reckon the old bag   will come Saturday.

Memphis I really hope you are ok and got good news over the holidays hunni.....

Love and hugs

Debs
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## memphis (Apr 4, 2005)

Hello girls - hope you all had a nice christmas.............

no good news from me I'm afraid. I wasw just into my second week when symptoms started and got full AF on boxing day. I guess I kind of knew all along but you just can't stop hoping eh   

Have had the usual few hideous days and have ot yet had the energy to phone the clinic but I guess that will be my next step.

Debs - great to hear that you're on your way and I hope natural does it for you. Got everything crossed 

Holly - again, hope you are feeling strong and geared up for your treatment schedule in the new year

It's been quiet on the thread so I hope that means everyone is busy having a fab time - a great big hello to all I haven't mentioned personally.

Please God let 2006 be our year


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## memphis (Apr 4, 2005)

DEBS - sorry I meant to put a happy smiley next to your message and it went wrong!!! 

Here you go................


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Well here we go girls, first scan booked for Friday afternoon....... it feels really weird doing this without the needles and drugs, I just feel like we are not doing anything, did anyone else feel like this? its difficult to motivate myself into drinking milk etc etc to improve my egg   I suppose after my scan it may all feel a little more realistic    

I hope everyone is ok??

Love and hugs

Debs
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Hi girls,

Just thought I'd drop in to wish you all a happy and (re)productive New Year.

Memphis -   I'm so sorry it didn't work for you this time. I know that you didn't have high hopes, but I don't think it makes it any easier. As you say there is always one little bit of you that clings onto the dream. I hope that you can pick yourself up to try again early in the new year. How quickly can you cycle again given that you were on very low dosage of drugs?

Debs - the very best of luck with your natural cycle. Mine was obviously a little different to yours as I was on a very low dose of drugs for 7 days of the cycle. Will you be taking the Orgalutron to stop you ovulating? Will be looking forward to following your progress.

Take care everyone,

Holly


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Hi Holly 

thanks for your message, not sure about the orgalutron, she did mutter something before, will know more after tomorrow I guess............

I am getting quite excited now  

Debs
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

Hi Girls, sorry I have been absent - just catching up with work and life in general. But a big Happy New Year   to you all 
Lou - hope u won all the contracts u were going for - sounds like your business is booming - great news!

Debs - great news re your cycle starting - hopefully I wont be too far behind u as I am waiting for AF now to give the natural attempt a go

Memphis - so sorry to hear your sad news - you seem to be coping very well - good for you and sending you a big hug

Hi Holly, hope you are well too. After all our sad BFN's I truly hope that 2006 is going to be the year we all dream of with lots of lovely BFP's.

I am fairly certain I have forgotten a few ladies for personal mentions - sorry about that! 
Thinking lots of positive thoughts for us all. 
Amanda xxx


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Blimey we dropped to page 3  

Well Girls I hope you are all ok??

My follie is growing nicely but not quickly enough looks like my EC will be a week day anyway after all that fuss and nonsense    but its looking good, I have to have another scan tomorrow and a blood test  as she said she isnt going to rely on the follie size with me, dont quite know why   guess she wants to be sure   so thats my news at the moment up and down to the clinic like a yo yo.........


I hope everyone is ok and slowly getting back into work and routine  

Hugs

Debs
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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

Hi girls

Debs - good to hear things are progressing - hope all continues to go well.
It's my turn to start asking more questions again now,   arrived today so I am now offically cycling again. exciting, I think! I am having a scan on day 9 - and that is all I know. We are going IUI hopefully this month - any clues of what else I can expect?

Also, does anyone else monitor their BBT? If so, is it normal for your daily temp to fall after day 7 - mine doesnt go down to what it was before Ovulation, but it does definitely decline...... does this indicate a luteal phase issue? any ideas?

I hope all is well with everyone else. Is anyone else mid cycle at the mo?
Love to all 
Amanda x


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Hi Girlies,

Sorry I've not been posting. Been in a bit of a tiz about my essays and exams this month.

Right personals:

Amanda - I did BBT for years and off and on now. Especially on a tx cycle. You mean 7 DPO right (days past ovulation). In which case, yes, it's quite normal. In fact it's an excellent sign. It's also known as an implantation dip. I have my charts on fertilityfriend.com which also has lots of info on the whole BBT thing and you can browse 1000s of charts from other women. Best thing to do is also wait until you period has finished before starting temping. This is because your temps can be erratic during your period and make charting software find it harder to pick up your O. Are you having IUI with Geeta? I've had 2 IUIs so far with Barts. It's very quick and you'll find it a breeze after undergoing IVF. Good luck!

Debs - yay for midweek EC! Sounds good that Geeta is doing more checks. Fingers crossed for tomorrow.

Holly - what's happening with you, hon? Are you now back at the ARGC?

Memphis - So sorry to hear about your negative result. Big hugs.

So much for my do-it-at-home cycle. I don't know why I always think it might work. But I guess, until they find something wrong with me, I'll always half hope. I'm booked in for another IUI with Barts. Got my 8 day scan on Friday. I'm trying to get them to give me a trigger shot this time, seeing as we missed my O last time. I've been trying to book in for an ovarian reserve scan with Geeta, waiting for them to call me back. I'll try again tomorrow.

Lou
x


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Looks like all you girls are back  

Debs - glad to hear things are progressing according to plan - albeit a bit slowly. I'm a slow one too - but it gets there in the end.

Amanda - IUI is a breeze compared to IVF. Are you having any drugs or is it completely drug free? I did do BBT thing years ago but found it very difficult and can't remember any of the details. Sounds like Lou is an expert though. Best of luck with the IUI and keep us posted.

Lou - hope the exams and essays went OK. Good luck with your IUI. 

I'm just about to start another cycle at the ARGC. I had a load of blood tests done today, some of them were NK ones I think - and got the call to say the hormone profile is OK to start so I have a scan with Mr T tomorrow. He reviewed my notes earlier in the week and said that I would be on a Flare protocol this time round. All I know is that there is no down regging and it's short. Will let you know what happens tomorrow.

Hi to Memphis. Hope you are doing OK  

Take care all,

Holly


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Well my follie is still growing, looks like Ec will hopefully be next week, Thurs/Friday   Start the Orgalutron tonight, have to say it looks ouchy   really thought I was gonna get away with no stabs but hey ho........... another expense I didnt know about!!

Sorry Mands I know nothing about BBT, I could never be bothered to keep it up for more than a few days   I am sooooooooo lazy..

I hope everyone is doing ok on their tx where ever theya re?/

Hugs

Debs
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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Debs - good to hear that your follie is still progressing nicely. I know, the Orgalutron was a bit of a surprise to me too - and £50 a pop ouch! It's not actually that bad - cause it's all preloaded it's pretty quick. I have to take it this cycle also as I am doing the flare protocol which means no downregging with just a few stabs of Orgalutron to keep it all together.

I did my first lot of stimms last night so just waiting for a call from the clinic for my instructions for today.

Take care,

Holly


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## saphy75 (Mar 15, 2004)

sorry to interupt girls, 

i just want to wish fidget loads of luck for next weeks e/c     

pam xx


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Awwwwwwwwww thanks Pam  

Thankfully I only had to pay £40 per stab for mine, still came out of the blue!!

Good luck with your stimms Holly


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Hi girls,

Holly - I've never heard of a flare protocol before. So much to take in with all this IF stuff. Good that it's short rather than the long protocol. Can't wait to hear how you're getting along.

Debs - Go, follie go! Wish it wasn't all so damn expensive. I don't know if I'm doing the right thing or not, but I've cut back on my accupuncture sessions because I can't really afford them. Might start again nearer the tx cycle.

I had my scan today. I'm CD7 so the lining 6mm and a large follie of 16mm not bad going. I'm back on Monday for another scan and will be doing the LH kits from tomorrow. 

Have great weekend ladies.

L
x


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Blimey thats a wacking big follie      I am day 12 and yesterday my follie was only 12/13 although my linning is thicker than that only just though at 9mm,  no wonder I am having problems!!

i had Short/Flare protocol for my 1st and last IVF, its fab and is over and done with very quickly!! much quicker than this blooming Natural cycle I can tell you! Think I had EC this time into my cycle then... now I will be a week later on this one!! hey ho


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Hi Debs - eek! I hope I don't pop early again and miss it. That would be a bummer seeing as DP away until Sunday night. Maybe they measured it wrong or something.  

I'm sorry things are dragging for you. 

I forgot to mention something that I wasn't tooooooo pleased about this week: When I saw Geeta in Dec, she said to book in for ovarian reserve scan in Jan. So I called a few times and left a message. Then I got one call back from the clinic and they left me a message. I then called a few times and never got a call back. I finally get hold of someone today and they said they were new and didn't know if there was a specific day I should have test on and that I should call St georges. I called them up and they said it had to be done from day 1-6. So, me being day 7 today means I have to do it next month. Not too drastic a problem because I can still do tx with them and do the test in the same cycle, but still, I would have preferred not to have to call quite a few times and miss it.

L
x


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Hi Lou,

I guess you use Create then?? I only ever use St Georges as they are closer to me and the girls there are generally fab, sorry you have had the run around!! its a pain when stuff like that happens eh!!!

Dont worry hunni, its my follie thats slow not yours being to ready i wouldnt think, I didnt mean to panic you!!! mines just very slow growing and my cycles have been kaput since my IVF in October so dont panic!!

Hugs

Debs
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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

Hi Girls
Lou, how frustrating! I hope that it doesn't matter and that this follie, this month does the trick!
Just wanted to pop in and say best of luck to you and Fidget for this week
Amanda x


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Hi Girls -

Went for another scan today. Dominant follie is now 20mm and they found another one of 18mm behind it. eek! Not sure that's reassuring with my fear of multiples. Lining was 7mm - not amazing, but look's like that's my average for me. So I've just done my very first trigger shot. Horray! I numbed my tummy with an ice cube in a tissue for a couple of mins and didn't feel a thing.  I'm such a wuss. Anyway, thought I wouldn't be able to do it, but was a breeze. I did manage to cut myself opening the vaccination, the glass somehow got crushed into my thumb. Amazing how much blood comes out of such a little scratch. Made it all the more dramatic!

Good luck everyone! let me know how you all get on.

Lou
x


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Hi Lou - well done with the trigger shot. The war wound will make it a much more interesting story   I guess you are in for basting tomorrow or Wednesday then? And you've doubled your chances with two good sized follies. Best of luck with the 2WW, will be dying to hear your news.


Debs -  hope you are doing ok and not finding the Orgalutron too difficult. Not long to go for you either. End of the week?

Still early days for me. I've been in to the clinic every day since Thursday for bloods. This time they're checking E2 and LH so that they know when and how much Orgalutron to give to prevent early ovulation. Just waiting for my daily call to know what to do next. I'm assuming I will have a scan tomorrow or maybe Wednesday. My dosage of drugs has changed a couple of times too, and the timings of when to take them. I'm finding it difficult to drink all the water and milk - I hardly find enough time to eat  . Other than that all going according to plan so far - but as I say very early days.

Love to all,

Holly


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Hiya Holly,

Must be weird going back to a clinic where they monitor you so closely. I think if I was doing IVF I'd feel more secure being closely monitored. I know what you mean about the drinking thing. The only way to do it is to time it and measure it out. Good luck!

It would just be my luck to get twins. I know that sounds awful. My friends on the other boards are always teasing me about my twin fear. But if it did happen, I know I'd get used to it and would be over the moon. But still find the prospect terrifying.

Lou
x


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Morning ladies  

Lou well done on getting to do your trigger! and no they arent that bad are they if you ice up   

holly I am finding the Orgalutran quite hard actually, I dont liek these prefilled syringes..... they seem to stick in the beginning and do you find the site hurts for about 24 hours after?? I didnt have that with the buserilyn or puregon and find this really odd   its not bruised just feels like someones punched me there and there should be a bruise.... i had another blood test this morning, waiting for the results to know if I should scan tonight or tomorrow as planned... Geeta did think Thursday/Friday for EC so its all go this week isnt it  

Thanks Mands hunni   I hope your doing ok sweetie?

Love and lots of     

Debs
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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Debs - I'm so excited for you. It is indeed a busy week, and then you can stop with all those nasty injections. 

Love

Lou
x


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Lou I dont know whats worse though, I know when I stop the jabs its on to botty bombs and they are the biggest pain in the   literally   

I am having   thoughts for all of us on here this week and in the coming weeks

Hugs

Debs
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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Debs - maybe you should ask for the Gestone jabs for progesterone rather than the bullets particularily as you bled early last time. They are not great (infact they are awful  ) but I know what you mean by the botty bullets. It's a rock and a hard place  

I guess you will be triggering tomorrow ofrWednesday. Just a tip on that - I know you are similar to me in that you have taken longer to get to the trigger stage than usual so you might be running low on supplies of Orgalutron - read the literature in the Orgalutron but from memory you need to take the orgalutron on the night of the trigger. I had run out of Orgalutron and picked up my trigger when I remembered that I had read on the literature the number of hours between the last orgalutron and ovulation, so I rang the clinic and they confirmed that I needed another jab. So I had to run back to get a prescription and then go back to get another injection ..... I think the people in the LFC thought I was a bit of a nut


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

bless, I have 3 left including today so all being well should be ok, From my previous IVF cycle Geeta had over guessed my drugs so I am hoping she has done the same again and I dont need to buy anymore!! I still have enough left over to do half a stimmed cycle so next one should be cheaper    cheers for the info though today is day 16 so hope its all going as it should, i have ov'd around day 16 int he past two months so we should be going soon!!

Hugs

Debs
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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

hi girls
I am finding this v interesting reading. I didnt realise you had to supress ovulation as well - is that even if you are not stimming at all? How many days before trigger do u normally have to inject for?
Debs - what's the blood test for - is that to check your e2 levels to see how soon u r likely to ovulate?
I love the term basting - it cracks me up  
Lou - WOW on your follies- and 2, too! Looking good!!!! 
Did any of you blood test on your day one at Create? I did when they were monitoring my cycle but not this month when i am hoping to tx.

Holly - I gather 111 Harley Street is mobbed as usual - hope you are managing to meet up with some of the girls for a hot choc afterwards (rewards of having your bloods done every day)
love to all
A x


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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

Lou 
I meant to say - try accupuncture for your lining it's meant to really help
that and feet in a warm foot soak for ten mins.
x


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Hi Mands, it sto make sure you dont OV earlier than necc, apparently it only works for  95% of people so   heres hoping its ok for me   bloods are indeed E2, she wanted to use both that and my scans to make sure we hit it right on the money, thats why I love her so much and the fact that you always see her for scans etc, (dont for the bloods though) 

I havent had my day 1 taken at all so reckon that was just for your monitored cycle hun,

whats 111 harley street?

Debs
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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Gosh we're all getting very chatty on here  

111 Harley Street is the blood clinic (HCA Labs) that the ARGC use for all their bloods. In fact Create use it also. Every morning between 8 and 10 you can find hoards of ARGC ladies having their bloods done - and then the usual practice is to retire to Marleybone High St. for a hot chocolate and to compare notes  

And yes Amanda - it is busy, but not as busy as it was when I cycled at the end of last summer.

No scan for me tomorrow - just bloods. But another change to my drugs tonight. I'm also having acupncture at Zita West tomorrow, so plenty of time for Hot Chocolate in between.

Till tomorrow,

Holly


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Ohhh I like the sound of Hot chocolate  

thanks for that Holly, least I know where my bloods are goign now when the courier comes to get them    

Oh well E2 was ok so scan for me tonight, all being well I guess EC will be Friday, that will work out well as I am off that day anyway, so no need to take holiday, I just hope I havent ov'd and lost it all after all these jabs etc... just seems weird to be on a natural cycle and its being extended loads    I dont mind though as long as it works!!! 

        

for everyone

Love

Debs
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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Afternoon, girlies,

Nice to see this thread coming along so much in the last few days. 

Holly - yay for hot chocolate. so, do you know when EC will be? I have acupuncture with Daniel Elliott and Daniel Maxwell at the London Acupuncture Clinic. He came so highly recommended by my FF girlfriends and I think he's half the price of Zita's place. But, as in all these things, it's where you feel comfortable. They worked a miracle for my cycle when I was going regularly. I've not been going so often lately, as I was trying to budget until I know more what I'm doing tx wise.

Mands - thanks for the tip, but yes, I did do acupuncture. Also did herbs from them in Dec and got my lining to 9mm. I didn't do it this time round.

Debs - we never stop feeling nervous about all this stuff, do we. When I was being scanned yesterday I assumed my follie would be gone again. Must stop this pessimism. I actually now believe it will never happen! Before I started IUI I decided I'd not get pg naturally and IUI would be my saviour. Mow I'm doing IUI, I've lost faith in that too. But then I read some of the other threads and see it really does and can work. So hang in there, honey.

I was basted today. The nurse kept talking about the twin thing, which didn't help with my twin worries. here goes with the 2ww. 

Lou
x


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Lou 

Dont worry about the twin thing babe, relax and lets hope this is the last 2ww you need to do eh!!

       

I will let you know whats happenign after my visit to st georges this evening...... I feel ever so bloated and yakky, maybe I just have major water retention certainly not as bloated as I was when doing stinluated IVf thats for sure!!

Hugs

Debs
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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Hi Vic, 

Firstly    for this month!

A natural cycle generally aims to collect your naturally produced egg so invariably you only get one per cycle. they do prescribe drugs to stop you ovulating naturally ( I am on them at the moment) and the botty bombs for after ET if you get that far!

I hope that answers your questions?

Hugs

Debs
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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Hi Vic,

Its called Orgalutran and its the same as buserylin etc so its not a problem and your only on it for a short time. The booty bombs are the dreaded Cyclogest and you have to take those for any IVF cycle I think?? I think the success rates are about 20%? not quiet sure, but definately less than Stimulated IVF as you only get one egg.

Debs
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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Hi Vic - yes, the clinic do also do light stims if you need them. The other thing about the success rates, is that they stack up really well over 4 cycles. As the cycles can be done consequtively you can do 4 in 4 months. I worked out the cost of 4 cycles was less than one cycle at some places and I wouldn't have such a hard time physically recovering. I know some of the ladies feel happier in themselves doing it this way because they are not burdened with the delays typical of highly medicated tx cycles (financial and physical recovery times). Geeta has recommended I try IUI with her rather than straight onto the IVF, which I thought was admirable.

Lou
x


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Hi Vic,

As Debs said, Natural Cycle IVF is all about collecting the egg that you produce naturally each month. It is possible however to do what's called a modified Natural Cycle - where you use the stimm drugs for a few days (maybe 5 - 7 days) and very low doses. This is done in the hopes that you might encourage 1 or 2 more follices across the finishing line thus improving the stats. But is entirely a personal decision whether you go purely natural cycle or modified.

The published success rates for Natural Cycle are considerably lower than conventional IVF when taken as just 1 cycle (less than 10%) but as you can do it month after month - rather than have to wait 2/3 months between cycles as with IVF, the stats start to look better across a number of cycles - and as Debs says they are about 20% when you take it across 3 or 4 cycles.

Hi Lou - just saw your post. Came in while I was writing this one. I had to nip to the loo in the middle. So sorry if I have repeated what you have said! Hope all going well with you.

How is your follie Debs - growing nicely I hope?

Take care,

Holly


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Hi Holly ans lou,

and your very welcome Vic hun

Well girls........

    

its not good news from me I am afraid, My scan last night showed my poor follie hadnt grown much since last Thursday (in fact only an extra 1.5mm) so it doesnt look good, she also had trouble finding the blood flow to it too, so looks like its gonna fail, we have another scan on Friday and E2 and LH bloods just to see, but she said if its not 18mm then it will be abandoned.

sorry its been copied from a previous post but that about sums it up  

Hugs

Debs
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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Ahh Debs - I'm so sorry hun  

Has Geeta given you any reasons? Does she think this might be the root of your IF problem? 

I hope at the very least this cycle gives you some more insight into what might be happening. You need to look at all these setbacks as little steps forward really. The more info they have about you the more they can tailor a program to suit you.

Take care,

Holly


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

No answers as yet, will know more on friday I guess, it was so sad they had even booked my Ec in as I was seeing them so late in the evening, they wanted to make sure I had an appointment


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## saphy75 (Mar 15, 2004)

awwww fidget sending you lots of            hun. 

here's a follie growing dance and positive vibes for you  

                                          

pam xx


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Awww thanks Pam

Does anyone know anything I can do to hurry it up??

Hugs

Debs
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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Not sure Debs .... have you tried the protein, I know that additional protein helps with egg quality. Also - if it's a case of issues with blood flow they sometimes prescribe baby aspirin or Heparin.

Also - you could try acupuncture. Not sure that it would help at this stage, but maybe next time. I go to the Zita West clinic for Acupuncture - but as long as you get a practitioner who is an expert in the fertility field you should be OK. They have very good results in encouraging egg growth.

Lots of      growing vibes to the little eggie

Holly


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

aw. debs, sorry to hear your follie isn't doing so well. Like Holly said, acupuncture can help, as can herbs. If you get a good acupuncturist, they will probably be able to do herbs too. Mine does. Also drinking heaps of water - 2L per day helps a lot with follie growth. I also have a friend that did DE IVF in Kiev, where they put all women on viagra supps to increase blood flow. Not sure if this would help with follie growth, more to do with lining I guess. But she got her supps from the internet. Also, other friends have been telling me about protein powder that's not got all the crap in it that most brands have. Thnis helps if you stuggle to eat and drink enough protein from regular sources.

Big hugs.

Lou
x


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## emmajordan (Jan 8, 2006)

Hi I am new to this site. I was considering natural IUI but think I may move to natural IVF. Had anyone had a cycle and has anyone been sucessful ?

Thanks

ems


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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

Hi Girls

welcome Vic, and good luck with your cycle this month

welcome Emma - this is my first time at this type of cycle, so sorry but I can't tell you about success rates, but from a non invasive perspective, this rocks! It has given me a whole different approach to previous attempts.  

Debs, I am sorry to hear your not so good news but I completely agree with what the other girls have recommended, especially accupuncture. Also, if u can find somewhere on the web that describes it - try qi gong breathing excercises - it is meant to increase the blood flow. if u cant face needles for accup. then maybe see a reflexologist, that might help. 

I feel really mean posting my news now.......... so, sorry fidget.
I went to see Geeta today for day 9 scan. my follie is at 17.2 already! she could see mucus (nice!) and i had good endo reading at 7.94 (is that good?) and a triple layer which she said was a v good sign. my blood flow is 10cmps (which if that means anything to any of you - u deserve a medal!) I can't quite believe this - but I am triggering tonight! for IUI on saturday!!!!!!!!!!!! Now, I am a bit sceptical about all of this, because my shortest cycle ever was 26 days and they are normally 28 - 33. and with a 14 - 15 day luteal phase, that means i dont normally ovulate till at least day 14 - and saturday will be day 12. I havent had any cm signs myself yet, so i am just hoping that geeta is on the button for this one, as it feels a bit early for my liking.so we shall see.   

typically we hadnt expected it to be before wednesday next week and now my dh's sample wont be ideal timing from abstinence -what a pain. but this is the most chilled i have ever been about treatment - so, that's a blessing in itself. 
Deb's i hope your follie is just being a bit of a late run lil, but will pick up in the next day - enough to make u proud and go ahead with this cycle.

Holly  - hope u r going ok on the stimms x

sending everyone else lots of love and hugs
Amanda


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Mands Hun

dont be silly sweetie, thats fab news hunni on your follie, seems we are twisted as my lining was thicker and all fine but my follie is shot   
anywya we will see tomorrow, nothing Ican really do about it now fo rthis cycle, so we shall see what happens eh!!

lots of love and   

Debs
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## saphy75 (Mar 15, 2004)

Good luck tommorrow Debs               

pam x


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Debs - Good luck with the scan today. Here's hoping that your little follie has had a big growth spurt   

Amanda - good to hear things are going well for you and that you are so relaxed. Very best of luck on Saturday and hope you  can keep your mind busy during your 2WW.

Ems - welcome to the thread. My natural cycle was converted to IUI, which didn't work - so can't really give you any info I'm afraid.

As for me .... I'm just stimming and doing my daily blood tests. One word of warning - when Debs mentioned last week about the cost of the Orgalutron - I'd paid £50 (at the LFC) for it and Debs paid £40 (presumably at St Georges). I checked what I had just paid at the ARGC - and it was £40 also. So beware of the LFC for drugs they seem to be expensive  


Holly


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Hi Girls,

Thanks Pam you sweetie  

I had my E2 and LH bloods done now, so we just waiting to go for our scan, I will let you know what happens, thanks for all your good wishes and follie dances  

Ems welcome to the thread sweetie, I dont know anyone yet who has done a ull cycle on this board, but wil let you know if I get that far  

Holly thats a very god point, I think LGFC are expensive, you only have to look at the difference between a cycle with Geeta and a cycle with them   My stabs were only £40 and my bloods are £50 for E2 and £25 for the LH, not sure how that matches up with the others either, But yes St Georges are cheaper all round, although prices go up again in march   I have seen the new ones (by accident) and they have all gone up by a £100 I think, not sure on the drugs though..

Anyway hopefully I will be back with good news later  

Love

Debs
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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Mmmm interesting ....

My E2 bloods cost £30 and the LH costs £30 also. I will double check that, but I'm pretty sure that's what it is. The interesting bit is that I think they all use HCA labs for the bloods.


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

I am sure its right, we have to pay for couriers dont forget as they have to get to the lab, sad but true


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

That's true .... but you'd think they would be consistent. Perhaps you take the hit on the first blood - and the second gets free travel


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

probably  free bike pass for second tube of blood


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Oh well my cycle is abandoned    going for another full on one next when I can be bothered.

Hope everyone is ok and wishing you lots of luck Lou hunni     

Love

Debs
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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Oh, Debs, so sorry, hon'. After you've come this far and everything. I hope that the cycle gives you some more answers as to what's causing the problem. Really wanted this to work out for you.

Thanks so much for thinking of me. As I said, I'm in denial. I don't think it will ever work.

Much love

Lou
x


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Thanks Lou hunni,

sounds like your the same as me, have been told to trigger tomorrow and  next week as its an 'OK egg' I dont personally hold out much hope as its not happened before so why should it now??

Love
Debs
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## saphy75 (Mar 15, 2004)

Awww Debs so sorry hun   sending you big   

pam xx

P.s. i'm not stalking you, as a mod i have to read the boards


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

@ stalking me

No Pam I know you have to read them Dizzi is always telling us muppets off for giveing her eye strain    and as One of the first people I spoke to on the site you can stalk me anytime you like   

Love and hugs

Debs
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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

Morning
Debs - so sorry to read your news    this whole IF thing is no fun whatsover. I hope that your egg is just a late show - and has been shy of the scans   but on triggering it will do it's best to accomodate your dh's sperm. let's hope that   works a treat for you this month   

Lou - I meant to say thanks so much for the BBT info - I must get my charts on line - I just diarise at the moment, would rather see them in chart form. Lou are u doing IUI this month? 

I took my bbt this morning and it had shot up - i hope i have not missed ov for this afternoon's IUI. I have been enjoying being so laid back about this tx, but missing 'the moment of chance' would really p me off! 

Holly - any news on your trigger day yet?
Memphis - hope all well with you- havent seen u post for a while.
Pam, reading all the boards must be a full time job and some! 
To everyone else too  - sending lots of love and luck
Amanda xx


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Hiya,

still in my pjs. Must get dressed soon...

Debs - I'm hoping your one egg is the good egg and you get lucky. Any reason why the ivf couldn't be converted to IUI? Sending you    

Mands - Your timing should be ok. If you Od yesterday then it takes a while for the egg to make it's way down the tube. But you'd have to see about 3 days of high temps to confirm when you Od. Good luck.    

No news from me. Spent yesterday looking after one of my friend's twin baby boys. So cute and so wriggly. Reminds me not to give up hope.

Hi to everyone.
Lou
x


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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

hi girls
had IUI today - am what a breath of fresh air that was after 4 drug laden ICSI's! I feel completely chilled about it - and am not dreading the 2ww at all. Going to treat it like a normal month when I don't expect anything will happen, but just hope that it has!!!

Thanks for the info Lou- I def had ovulated, my bbt never leaps that much temperature wise. it is really consistently low before ovulation and then skips steadily up. Geeta said she could see that i had and that was a good thing. lining was at 10. something and still triple layered. good blood flow etc - so just hoping dh's sperm does the jobbie. But it was all so chilled, I would happily (loosely speaking) go thru this another couple of go's. the only thing worrying me about having o'd so early (as i think it was actually last night) is the concern that the reason I always have less eggs than follies during icsi is that my body naturally reacts to the trigger injection earlier. WIll have to bear that in mind if we go down that route again.

I hope everyone is well and having a nice weekend so far 
big hugs and lots of love 
Amanda xxx


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Hi Lou,

sorry I didnt answer your IUI question, I dont know why it wasnt ocnverted to be honest, maybe she reckons we can manage that bit ok     

To be honest though, I dont think I could have coped with more proddign and poking about, had my HUGE trigger yesterday and feel really weird now...... either its that or I ahve a cold comming, I cant tell because it was double the amount I had to take for my IVF cycle so its all a bit new....

I hope you guys are all ok and clucking away nicely  

Love

Debs
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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Debs - I hope you start to feel better soon and are well enough to get on with that  . I know you probably don't hold out much hope - but you just never know.

Amanda - hope you are still chilling out during your 2WW.

I'm still stimming - day 12 today. Definitely starting to feel like a pin cushion. 3 - 4 jabs every day. I'm just waiting for my call, the clinic said to be on standby today for repeat bloods. You always know things are coming to an end when you start getting the repeat bloods call. Will drop by and update later.

Holly


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## emmajordan (Jan 8, 2006)

Hello gals - how you doin'

I telephoned create health at the harley street office and they said that the consultant does not come in at any other time apart from Thursday Mornings and all other times you must go to Wimbledon for the scans etc !!!!!!!!!!!!!! and the actual IVF is at the London fertility centre ! I phoned up the London Fertility Centre and they are twice as expensive. Bit confused now. Do Create's price ranges include the scans etc or are they additional.

Thanks
Ems

and good luck to all of you this cycle


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Hi Ems,

I know - it's a real faff actually. I found it a bit unworkable for me to be honest. St Georges is obviously very handy for anyone living that direction - but I had assumed that I could get most things done in Harley Street. Just one morning a week is not great - and she's usually run off her feet - as you can imagine.

My Natural IVF was converted to IUI as the LFC would not do my EC on a Saturday (although I know Debs has had different info on this and says they do operate at weekends for EC). 

I believe the price quoted by Create includes all the scans - but not any blood tests you might need.

Hope this helps,

Holly


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## emmajordan (Jan 8, 2006)

Yes they seem a bit disorganised.I have sent 2 emails with no reply and asked for a return call - which did not happen. 
The lady at St Georges was mega switched on though. They really should have an agreement somewhere for the scanning nearby - its nonsense- they are a renowned scanning unit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

I dont think they have the same scanners in most places Emma, I actually like st Georges (probably cos its up the A3 for me) but they have parking as well, means you dont have to worry about where to park or having to get the train etc.. Ok you pay in two tranches when you have IVF with Create sweetie, One payment goes to Create/St Georges the other payment goes to LFC for EC and ET that is a smaller payment. Create are much cheaper than LFC and I personally think you get a better service at St Georges   as Holly said all scans are included in the price but any bloods you need doing are extra.


Hope that helps some

Debs
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## emmajordan (Jan 8, 2006)

The price that they quote on their website £1070 for natural IVF what are the additionals to this. i.e. how much do I have to pay per cycle.

If its additional its a bit cheeky coz I confirmed the price with St Georges !!

Thanks


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

No thats right for your natural IVF, BUT that does not include drugs or blood tests! that is split into paying St Georges £620.00 (I think) and the rest you have to pay to LFC whenyou go for EC. Be aware all the prices go up again in March I believe!


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## emmajordan (Jan 8, 2006)

OK thanks that makes sense. it just seems a bit stupid because if I want natural IUI at the London fertility centre they(LFC) charge £300 more !!!!!!!!!!!! and £1000 more for the IVF.  It is totally bonkers
xx ems


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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

Hi Ems
just to say - i had my scans at create - and my IUI at the weekend at St Georges - which would have been an enormous incovenience during the week!
My natural IUI cost me £497 give or take a fiver
hope that helps 
Amanda x


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## emmajordan (Jan 8, 2006)

Thanks so you can actually be scanned at harley street every week day - the receptionist seemed to think that you could only be scanned on a thursday morning !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you have the natural IUI 

Thanks

ems


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Hi Ems,

No I don't think you can be scanned every day of the week - it is Thursday mornings - and possibly another day when the Prof is there - otherwise you need to go to St Georges - well at least that was my experience.

Holly


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## emmajordan (Jan 8, 2006)

Oh goodness. Just called the clinic I am at now. They can do it for £600 and that is so much less bother - I know I should be looking after the pennies but you know, I can't be bothered. 

I'll save my hard work for ARGC or who ever I decide to cycle with when/if I do the IVF. xx ems


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Hi Ems - so does your clinic do Natural Cycle IVF?


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## emmajordan (Jan 8, 2006)

No I think I am going to stick with the IUI I can't be going to Wimbledon for scans etc it is just not possible xx Maybe in the summer


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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

hi girls
we had fallen onto page 3! and trust me, I just don't have the bust for it!!!!


Hope you are all well  - Holly I sent you a quick message via the ARGC thread - I hope your call tomorrow puts a big smile on your face. 
Memphis -I hope you are ok - havent heard from you for a while -I also need to see if u have been on the poor responders thread- I really need to catch up with that

Debs and Lou - hiya - how are things going with you.
Emma - not sure if u will pop in until u r free for your next attempt - but Hi anyway

hello to anyone else I havent mentioned.
lossa love
Amanda xxx


----------



## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Blimey! Page 3! That's no good. Sorry I've been absent, girls. I'm still in my essay mode. Am back out to play next week. Testing on Tues...I've been so distracted by studying, I'd forgotten what day it was. 

If things don't work again, I'll be trying to get in for that ovarian resserve scan next week.
Hope you all fine.

Lou
x


----------



## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Lou - good luck for testing on Tues - not long now.

Amanda - hope you are keeping sane during your 2WW.

Well I am now officially on the 2WW. I had ET today and have a 6 cell, an 8 cell and a 12 cell on board, so am very happy. I'm also on tons of progesterone to stop me bleeding early as I have done on my previous 2 failures. So 2 cyclogest and a gestone jab for me every day - lucky me   We also did assisted hatching to help with implantation - and also had IVIG, so I really feel we have thrown the book at it this time. So hopefully it will pay off.

Hi to everyone else - Memphis, Debs, emma.

Holly


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## nats210 (Apr 25, 2005)

Hi Holly

Just a quick one to say good luck with your 2ww, they certainly sound like top embies you have there.
Nats


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Hi everyone,

Good luck Holly! Certainly sounds like you've got some first class embie onboard, hon.    .

Me, I tested today. BFN. I know I shouldn't, but hey. 

Lou
x


----------



## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Hi Girls,

Sorry I have been AWOL, but lots going on etc.............

Holly good luck with your 2WW hunni    was lovely chatting last night too!!

Mands    your not the only one, I dont have the bust for page 3 either and not sure I would want to   

Lou Babe, I am sooooooo sorry sweetie, Just hoping it was too early to test for you     

Well me, we did  for about 4 nights, god that was hard   when you HAVE to its almost impossible to get the motivation and energy to   anyway we will see........ one good thing out of it all, is I did a pee stick last week just to remember what a +ve looks like as I have only seen -ve for the past 18 yrs and thought I would never see a +ve one now, so that has helped me over that mental hoop! Mad and sad I know but hey ho... been feeling really weird this week, very bloated and AF like pains so am sure she will raise her ugly head soon, only things is I just dont know when  

I hope everyone is doing ok?

Hugs all round

Debs
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

hi girlies

Lou- just like Debs has said, I hope that you have just tested too early and it's not really a -ve.

There are quite a few of us now on the dreaded 2ww.  

Debs - I hope all your signs are symptons of a lovely BFP. I have absolutely no symptons at all. No sore boobs, stomach pains i have put down to rushing my food and a little white d/c (sorry TMI!) Am going to bed v early every night to make sure my body is being looked after (as I am normally always tired)

Holly - so glad you have so many healthy sounding embies on board.

Sending everyone best wishes and    
lots of love
Amanda x


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

hey Mands your 'symptoms' sound excatly like mine, not holding out hope for me but thinking    for you


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

hello girls,

I'm out. Got another BFN this morning, so I'm passing the torch onto you girls. Not feeling too down about it. Booked into have ovarian reserve scan on thurs where I'll discuss with geeta whether to go onto the ivf or iui with her. Not sure what I do with Barts. I think they'll book me in for a review and then see what next. One thing I have noticed is that the girl who answers the phone at Create is not really good at her job! She doesn't know much about anything. Maybe she'll get better as she gets used to it. But for now, it seems best to call St George's for a chat and info.

Wishing you all good good luck. Let's see if we can't turn this tide of BFNs. It's about time for a BFP.

Lou
x


----------



## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Lou so sorry sweetie   

Please dont pass the torch to me, give it to Holly or Mands, think it will phizzle (sp) if you give it to me  

I dont know about Create, I only ever speak to Mirrel or Lizzie (the nurse) at St Georges, so sorry cant help you out there hunni.


----------



## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Oh Lou - I am sorry   Good luck with the ovarian reserve scan on Thursday. I think it is always good to have something to do immediatly after a BFN. At least you feel you are still moving in the right direction. I share your frustration with Create - the service can be a bit patchy to say the least. But as Debs says - St Georges seems to be a whole different ball game. Everyone is well informed and on the ball.

Hey Debs - don't give up yet. You never know    

Amanda - hope the boredom and the waiting is not getting to you. It's getting to me   


Holly


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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

Lou, I am so sorry- I thought I had responded earlier, but just remembered I had to reboot my system at the time, and then didnt go back on line (was at work)
I want to say how sorry I am that u got a -ve. That's a real bummer (understatement)  

I am really pleased you are already planning forward- sometimes action is the best thing. Sending you a big hug xxx

Amanda xx


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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

hi girls
how did we sink this low again? we are all being far too quiet!

Holly - hope u r still sane and not feeling full of cold.

Debs- how are things?

Lou - how did your scan go?

Not going to test tomorrow unless AF doesnt show - which I am pretty sure the old witch will do - I have been monitoring my temps and they have gone down a notch in the last 2 days - and I was awake most of last night with really bad cramps (much worse than normal and earlier- not impressed!    ) I did actually do a pee stick on weds too - and def no two lines there. but will let u know for def tomorrow. if it doesnt work - think i will try again straight away next month. It really kicked me today that it has been 6 years of trying, and I dont have time to keep putting it off, especially when IUI is so non invasive.

anyway= what's new with everyone 
Love
Amanda xx


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Amanda - I hope your doubts are wrong and you get a great big BFP tomorrow. As you say, it is good at least that you can start again straight away if it isn't - but lets not think about that just yet.

My cold is still lingering - but I don't feel too bad. I am now into the ARGC every second day for progesterone blood tests/monitoring so that Mr T can up my gestone/cyclogest if need be. Into the second week of the 2WW now, by far the worst week. Not much can go wrong in the first week - but it's the second week that it all goes pear shaped. This time next week all will be revealed.

Love to all,

Holly


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Hi Girls,

Bumping us back to page 1!

How are we all today? I'm having a veeeery lazy Sunday. Stayed in my pjs all day!

Holly  - how are you doing, love? When is test day? Hang in there. Thinking of you  during this tough week. I have an ARGC question later (read below).

Amanda - I'm so sorry you think you have a BFN. Hope it's the opposite. Big hugs. I know what you mean about time. I had to face my 37 year old pregnant friend on Friday night. Got pg more or less straight away. When I first started trying she didn't really want to start. Hugs.

Debs - how are you doing, lovely? And I don't agree with you about phizzling the torch. Enough to go around for everyone on this thread. 

I had my scan on Thurs at Create. Geeta was lovely. She said my ovaries look lovely and I shouldn't be worried about running out of eggs. I had the inhibin B test done. Not called in for results yet. Geeta said it was around £55. I didn't think to call my FF girls up to find out where I can get the blood test done, so I went to the the HCA recommended by Create. The bill came to £78 because they charge a £19 bleed fee. I've since found out I should have gone to the LFC who don't charge the bleed fee. You live and learn.

I decided to do an IUI cycle with Geeta this cycle. This way I'll get a more detailed monitoring of a complete cycle. And  then get Barts to put me on their IVF list. They said they will take 6-8 weeks to get me the review appt. I'm wondering though if I should call my PCT and ask if I have a choice of where I can have my one free go at IVF. Would this mean I could ask to be referred to the ARGC or another NHS clinic other than the two where my PCT has a regular contract? My thoughts are that if I've only got one free go, I want to go to the best place. I know that's a process of reading between the lines. 

I seem to have been rambling on for ages. oops.

Lou


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Hi Lou,

Sorry I'm not going to be much help with the NHS and referrals. I've never been lucky enough to live in a PCT area that would give me anything. I do know that the ARGC do NHS referrals - but I'm not sure how they get them. It's worth a shot. There's also UCH - which I think is an NHS hospital with a private IVF clinic - they have a very good reputation also - stats are next to ARGC I think.

I'm testing on Friday. It always goes wrong on day 11 after EC- so tomorrow is my big day. If I get past tomorrow I might feel I'm in with a bit of a chance. At the moment I am feeling very negative.

Good luck with your IUI this cycle,

Holly


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Sorry Girls,

I have been away for the weekend with some girls from here.............

Holly, I hope your still hanging in there sweetie     

Lou, Glad your got your scan sorted at last !! and your bloods done, shame you had to get charged like that!

well I tested this am BFN, didn't think it would be any different but hey ho........ just got to wait for AF now  

Hope everyone else is well

Love and hugs
Debs
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

morning girls

Debs - you and me both re testing neg yesterday - for some strange reason, although my temps dropped saturday and AF was due then, it didnt start till yesterday. Was holding onto what little hope I had left that it might be a +ve, but not meant to be - I wouldnt mind though, i have had 4 sleepless nights due to AF pains (quite strange for me) and then a pretty mild show in comparrison with all the grief it caused.  Would love to think it was because I was +ve, but know I am not - poo! Never mind, going to try IUI again this month - although getting a scan this / next week is proving a bloody nightmare. 

Lou, I would def speak to your doc or whoever controls your funding about where u get your free go - if u can go to ARGC i would highly recomend it. Glad to hear your scan looked so positive - very good news! Good luck with the IUI hopefully u wont need to go down the IVF route

Debs - are you going to do IUI again this month? we will be cycle buddies! Sorry to hear your's was a neg too - I hope it didnt hit you too hard.    Hope you had a nice weekend with the girls too.

Holly - I hope you dont fret today and get over stressed, I am amazed that you are able to pinpoint one day as being the day it could go wrong - try to imagine that it was yesterday, so the worst day is behind you - that way you might be able to relax today. Sending you lots of     and hoping that you are on your way to a nice BFP !!!!

love to everyone 
Amanda xx


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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

hi girls
we are slipping off the radar again. so I thought I would pop in and say hi.

I have another scan booked for this cycle for next tuesday - it was like parting with blood to get it though. They were so booked I am actually going to raynes park for a scan which is a major pain in the butt for me. It is such an enormous change after being at the ARGC where they fit u in come what may (although I know there are almost at the other end of an extreme)

Anyway - good luck Holly. and hello to everyone else, how are things?
xx


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Hiya,

Mands - strange was so tough getting your scan booked in. Whenever I've been there I was the only one in. Good luck honey. Can you remind me where you are in the cycle?

Holly - news from you? Hope you ok.

Debs - hope you ok, babes.

I went for my scan today. Had the prof. He confirmed my suspicions that ovaries race ahead of lining. Ovaries were apparantly fantastic but lining only 5.3mm. So going for a scan on Saturday. Not sure when HCG will be.

Lou
x


----------



## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Hi girls,

sorry have been awol, but m trying to recover from the weekend in Barcelona with the girls   ohh and AF got me on Monday night the old bag!!

Hope everyone is doing ok??

Love and hugs

Debs
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Oh Debs, so sorry you got AF, honey.   

Much love,

Lou
x


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Just a quickie from me ....

Despite 3 top grade embies and all the gestone in the world I still got a BFN today


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## saphy75 (Mar 15, 2004)

Holly so sorry hun    it just doesn't seem fair after all we go through does it ?

pam xx


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Holly - I'm so sorry, love. Sending you loads of   . This must be devastating for you.

Much love

Lou
x


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## emmajordan (Jan 8, 2006)

I am so sorry to hear your news it must be devastating for you. Lots of love Emma


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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

Hi Girls
Holly (I hope you have seen my other post for you by now) I am so gutted for you and your DH. Wishing you strength hun. It seems even more of a kick/ insult after getting such great embies. xx   


Lou - I even phoned 2 days before my AF was due, in case I had problems - and I am having to go to Raynes Park on day 10 - I ovulated day 11 last month - so hoping I dont miss the boat this time. I am on day 7 today. Lou- have u tried a warm foot bath of an evening - it is meant to help increase blood flow to the lining - hope it helps
Debs, clearly a good weekend away then, pleased to hear it

Hello to Emma and Pam and to anyone else I have forgotten - sorry ladies xx

Amanda xx


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Hi everyone,

Mands - Look's like I'll be at Raynes Park too doing IUI on Valentine's Day! I was worried about missing it too, but she said she prefers that we do BMS ourselves before and then the IUI day is a backup. Went there today for my day 11 scan. Geeta confirmed she thinks I might have this problem of excessive follie growth compared to lining. I usually O around day 12, which would be tomorrow, but maybe my extra trip to the acupuncturist on Thurs did the trick and has delayed things? So, I'm under orders to do OPKs tomorrow, BMS tomorrow night, then HCG trigger Monday at 7am and IUI basting on Tues evening. She says the HCG should help mature my lining too. And she'll scan me again after the IUI and give me some progesterone if I need it. Definitely been a much better experience than Barts or the Homerton. Even if I do have to go to Raynes Park.

Good luck.

Lou
x


----------



## emmajordan (Jan 8, 2006)

Hi London Lou - just checking out from the male point of view really. On the day of IUI should does the man have to come and give a sample or do they freeze it earlier  Do they have to visit the clinic at the same time, or could they go in really early and do it etc ??

Thanks

Ems


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Generally, the man comes in an hour before the IUI to do a sample. It's then washed and prepared. 

I'm really confused now what to do. I was supposed to test for LH tomorrow morning and eve and do HCG trigger Monday a.m. I did a test this eve and was +ve. So, now unsure if I should do trigger tomorrow a.m. or wait until Monday. I've paged the clinic. Anyone got any idea?

Lou
x


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## LEECOWDEN (May 24, 2005)

Hi was just sent over here by fidget/debs.

I have been receiving treament from Geeta since September 2005 at St George's clinic.

I think she is lovely, very sincere.

We had 3 rounds of Ovulation Induction, and I am now into my first cycle of IVF, have my first down-regging scan to see if my lining is thin enough, then onto the stimms, using Gonal f.

Hopefully this will be my one and only go at IVF, if not then I have made the decision to have 3 round of IVF with Geeta and then have 3 goes at the ARGC.

Leexx


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Hi Lee,

Welcome! I've found Geeta really nice too. I really hope this works out for you. I see from your signature you've been through a really bad time. You must be a very strong lady. 

Geeta called me this morning and I did the HCG shot. I'm having the IUI at St. George's tomorrow evening. 

Lou
x


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## LEECOWDEN (May 24, 2005)

Well good luck for that


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Evening ladies,

Thought I should bump us back up to page 1!

So, I had my IUI this eve with Geeta at St Georges. They actually opened the clinic for me especially! It was really good. I had another doppler scan before which was great as the NHS don't usually bother on the day of the IUI, and she was so excited about my lining. 9.6mm triple layered. yay! The HCG must have done the trick. Feels so good that finally someone has noticed this as an issue too. She said she thought my follicle had only just popped. DP's swimmers also got the thumbs up. So, I'm sent home to do 2500 of HCG on Weds and then again on Fri. Also 150mg of asprin per day until testing.

How is everyone doing?

Lou
x


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Holly Sorry sorry to see your news sweetie  

Mands how are you doing hunni??

Lou sounds fabulous, so please you like it hunni       this is the one for you

LeeCowden, So gald you found the girls hunni.....     for your cycle too

Hugs

Debs
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

hi girls

Lou that is fab news re your lining and v interesting about the use of the hcg injection to thicken it. Best of luck!!!! Geeta did the doppler scan on my IUI too - isnt it helpful to hear all the things she says.

Hi Debs -where you at in your cycle at the mo - are you trying again this month?

Hi Holly - sending you a big hug - I am sure you are still feeling really crap - i wish i could magic it away for you x

Welcome to the thread Lee

Emma - how are things progressing with you

Memphis if you still pop in -  I hope you are ok

Hello Pam

to anyone I have forgotten - my sincere apologies!

I am in for a scan (day 10) today - so hopefully all hunky dorey
will update you later xx


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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

evening girls
warning! a selfish me post coming up!!!!
I had my scan today - day 10 - folly at 17.5 and triple lining endo at 7.8. I am injecting tonight for IUI on thursday morning - does that seem early to anyone else? what is the ideal egg size? does anyone know?
worried that yet again my ovulation is being 'induced' early - my cycles naturally are more like 28 - 32 days - this will make it a 26 day cycle again. Also have no CM  yet either - sorry tmi
all thoughts appreciated 
thanks so much
lossa love
Amanda x


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Mands, I think they trigger when follie reaches 17 so not to miss it. You should O 36 hours after trigger. Your lining should thicken up between now and Thurs. have you been told to have BMS tonight, not tomorrow night and then have IUI Thurs, and BMS Fri? Sounds right to me for how Geeta does the IUI.

Good luck honey!

Lou


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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

thanks Lou - that has put my mind at rest a little - my eggs always reached 22 before ICSI - so it just feels a bit too early. and yep re the bms tonight and trigger. Poor dh - will have to go without now for a fortnight after - as we are too nervous on the 2ww, with these shorter cycles he is really missing out!


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

I'm not scared on the 2ww to "do it" just can't be bothered!

Lou
x


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Lou I am with you on that one, just cant be bothered  

Mands I am glad Lou was able to help sweetie, They trigger you at anything other 17 as they dont want to a) lose the egg b) it to get over mature.

Wishing you both lots of luck and   thoughts for your cycles...

Mands to answer your question, no I dont think we are going to cycle again until May and do a full IVF again, we have hols coming up etc so dont want to be stressed re timings......

Hugs to all

Debs
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

HAPPY BIRTHDAY LOU


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Aw, thanks honey! I'm now officially hanging off my cliff! Isn't this what you do at 35?

DP was horrified last night when he realised he'd got the day mixed up again. He redeemed himself this morning.

Lou
x


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

I dont know about hanging off a cliff, am on my way to 2 yrs past 35 so if i'd been hanging that long, I am sure I would have fallen by now


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Debs - I think it's down to good nail care...  Ain't no ine going to get us off the cliff until we're good and ready.


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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

hi girls
Happy birthday Lou - sorry for not posting that sooner but been out and about - I hope you get pampered rotten

You and Debs have been cracking me up with your cliff hanging gags - I am between the two of you 36 next month. I'm hanging on with a couple of pitons ( i think that's the right word!)  

Had IUI today - hadnt yet ovulated this time when she did the treatment, so not sure how well that bodes for success?!
We'll see I suppose
love to all
Amanda xx


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Mands - welcome to the 2ww, love. Timing sounds good. The swimmers will be waiting for the eggie when  it arrives. Had lovely bday drinks thing Fri round mine. Some of my ff came too. So glad to have met people on this site. Gppd luck. Let's get through this 2ww together. I test a week on Monday.

are you on any meds?

hi to everyone else. Better go to sleep now.....

Lou
x


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## LEECOWDEN (May 24, 2005)

Hi everyone.

Well I am now on Day 7 of stimms. I am due to have bloods done tomorrow, and then another scan in the afternoon.

Geeta scanned me on Saturday morning, and she could see about four follies on either side that have already started to be selected. And my lining was already thinckening 4.8mm. 

Geeta says she will have a better idea about EC date tomorrow, but at the moment is estimating a week today.

Hope everyone else is well, and things are going smoothly.

leexx


----------



## Chelley (Sep 6, 2005)

Hi Girls,

Can I gatecrash your thread please, I have been lurking and reading and as a very low responder who has just had all the drugs but still got only one follicle, I am interested in what the natural cycle has to offer, if anything.

I am still mid cycle, as I triggered last Tuesday and then had IUI last Wednesday, which seemed a bit early to me, but the embryologist assured me that the sperm can live upto 5 days.    

Anyway, I am not feeling all that confident of the outcome and need some kind of backup plan to fall back on, as I think that the ARGC may recommend stopping treatment after this time.  

I see that some of you are actually on a cycle at the Create Health clinic and wondered if you could tell me what the treatment entails. i.e. if I am not on any drugs then do I need to be in London so much?  I live in Birmingham, so just wondered what the contact with them is.  It has just cost us a fortune in Hotel bills for the ARGC, which is not great on top of all the treatment and drugs costs.

Any advice for a much older one (42) hanging on to the ankles of you girls on the cliff edge.  

Cheers

Michelle


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## Chelley (Sep 6, 2005)

Oh yes, just one more thing. Who is Geeta?  

Michelle


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## LEECOWDEN (May 24, 2005)

Geeta is the consultant who runs create health clinic.


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Hi Michelle,

Welcome on board! I'm not doing natural IVF yet with Create. I'm halfway through the 2ww of an IUI cycle with them. So, I'm not sure I can answer your question about the frequency of visits during IVF tx. But I think it will involve less than the ARGC because it will be down to scans not daily bloods to adjust your meds. 

Geeta Nargund is the consultant. She's a very nice lady. The tricky thing with doing the natural cycles are it's less scheduled. But you may find yourself transferred to ST Georges if things need to happen at a weekend.

Good luck with this cycle. You know... it can work!

Lou
x


----------



## Chelley (Sep 6, 2005)

Thanks leecowden, I hadn't realised that.

Lou, Are you doing IUI without drugs too then?  And do you have to have regular scans to ensure that there are follicles there to fertilise?  I was considering the IVF route so that I could be sure that the eggs actually were of decent quality otherwise maybe we should think about giving up and going with doner eggs or adoption.
But my last consultant told me that if the body does natural selection of the eggs then you are much more likely to have a better quality egg than if forced by the drugs.  Has anyone else been told this?

Michelle
x x


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Hi Michelle,

Yes, I'm doing IUI without drugs. Although this time I did HCG trigger shots, one before O and one in the week after IUI to help with the lining. I O normally and I have lining problems. Clomid can further thin the lining. I had loads more detailed scans with Create Health than I've had previously with the NHS. It's almost worth cycling with them for this reason, as they use the doppler scanner. I may move on to the natural ivf if this IUI fails. I'd heard the same as you re egg quality vs. quantity. Makes sense. 

Lou
x


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Thought I'd pop back in and see how Holly and Debs are doing. I've been thinking of you both. 

Lou
x


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Aw Lou,

thats really sweet of you....... am doign ok, just plooding on trying to save money for next go   looking forward to my holiday and thats about it.........

How are you doing Lou??

I hope everyone else is doing ok?

Hugs

Debs
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Debs - I daren't even think of the finances of it all and I've barely started. Why can't it all be free, free. free!

I'm doing ok, thanks. Halfway through the sloooooooow 2ww. I test next Monday. Having a little fight with the NHS over forgetting to book my review appointment and putting me to back of queue.   Not much new then!

Lou
x


----------



## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

urghhhhhhhhhh NHS my least fav thing I have to say...... they are fab in emergencies, but need anything else from them and you can forget it!!!!!

I hope it goes ok hunni      for you


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Joy the prices are going up again!!!!!!!!

hey ho


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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

Hi girls
Lou – no meds for me – drug free except hcg injection. I think I may have ovulated Friday night – but am not sure as my temperature was not that clear on Friday morning. The next time there was an obvious shift was Saturday morning. So my dh has never got so lucky 3 days in a row! Lou – are you natural IUI’ng with Geeta, you are, aren’t you? I read your post elsewhere about Barts messing up your IVF appointment – what a mare!

Lee-  what a pretty dress! Your response so far to stimms sounds great – well done

Michelle – hello and welcome! I can’t remember if I mentioned this thread or the ICSI support/ low responders one to you. Both should be a real help. I am not sure if any other uk clinics do the natural cycle treatment- did you have immune issues identified by ARGC – the problem is finding another clinic that will treat you for those with a natural cycle or min drugs

Hi Debs - hope you are ok. Are the prices going up a lot? Are you going anywhere nice on your holiday (my best hairdresser question!) Are u holidaying before tx'ing again?

Am not going mad on the 2ww as I am pretty sure it's not going to work - not from a neggy point of view - just sceptical and I think I have a thyroid problem which could stop me conceiving. If I could find a positive in anything - I am SO spotty at the moment. Will see if that continues.

to anyone I have missed- sorry - but love and hugs to all

Amanda xx


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Hi Amanda - Yes, I'm natural IUIing with Geeta this cycle. I'm super spotty too! Maybe that's a good sign? All on my chin, if that makes a difference. When I had a bout of severe hormone acne ten years ago, the dr said the sides of the chin are the ovaries! I'm like you, sceptical. I don't believe it can work these days. What egg meets sperm and makes a baby? No  way! Too complicated.

Good luck honey.

Btw where are we natural girls in the UK? I'm live in east london. 

Lou
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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Mands at hairdressing questions.......... I am going to the red sea for a week, and yes we are going before we cycle again.... I need some sunshine 

I think its gone up a couple of hundred quid again, this is the second time in the year I have been with them and I always seem to get caught by it  

Am wishing you both much love and luck                                 

Lou I am in Camberley, Surrey

Love

Debs
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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

hi girls

Debs- ooooh nice   - are you on a 'I must lose weight for my bikini' diet? I keep thinking about it - and that's as far as it goes! I was wondering actually, if any other hospitals do natural cycle IUI - I was under Barts before ARGC and obviously our route till now has always been ICSI - I am pretty sure ARGC don't do IUI (and with all the extra drugs u get from them, it would be pretty pointless for all that effort for one egg) but I have no idea if Barts do it. I wonder if they do and what the price difference is - I know it shouldnt boil down to money - but it's one less pressure if it is cheaper. (more money for our hols   )

Lou - that's exactly where mine are (spots that is) - interesting re ovaries. Let's hope it's good news for both of us - although I'm with you on the sceptical approach - when I get like that I look at all the +ve sites for inspiration (and hope  ). Are you keeping a note on your temps? Mine have gone up to 36.6 - which I am quite pleased with - but two of my nutrionist friends reckon that if you are below that - it's a sign on thyroid probs- a bit of a worry - when my day 1-3 of cycles are at a temp of 35.9 - 36.1!!!  I shall be such a hypocondriac by the time I am done with this malarky  

Chelley - how is your two week wait going? are you back at work or at home with your feet up?

Lee - how are things progressing with you - when is your next scan? I am in tomorrow for a scan and blood test - as I wanted my lining and progesterone monitored (well just my prog actually but Geeta has suggested a scan too)

I am from Essex (no white high heels, honest!) but work in London 

Hugs and love to all    
Amanda xx


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Amanda - I used to temp on another site, I still keep a record of my cycle there, but have fallen by the wayside with temping. Didn't get myself organised. I should really start again, as when I do acupuncture, I think they would like to see my temp charts. As for Barts and IUI. I've been quite upset at my tx there. Sorry, mini rant coming: They don't monitor you very closely at all, especially if you on unmedicated cycle. I had 3 failed IUIs with them. The first I was allowed to go ahead with lining of 5.6mm. When I questioned them on this, they said if an unmedicated cycle fails they don't know why because they don't test for anything. I got the idea they were just going through the motions and checking follie size and quantity. They wouldn't give me anything for lining as they said they didn't do this unless I'd been stimmed. I'd asked if Clomid was suitable for me with my lining because I didn't want to make my lining worse and they agreed with me. They wrote this up in my notes as "doesn't want stimulated cycles". the second IUI they missed the follie. Now, they 'forgot' to book me my review appt since my last failed cycle 3 weeks ago and have now allocated me appt to discuss IVF end of April. They don't do scans on the day of IUI, so you don't know what situation is on day of basting. They cost the same as Create, so I'm sticking there if doing more private IUIs.

Sorry about that. But I hate the idea of being pushed into invasive tx when they haven't sufficiently explored issues in the diagnostic phase.

Debs - mmmm holiday! I need one too.

Chelley - how are you coping? I'm bored with my 2ww already!

Lee - news from you?

Lou
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## LEECOWDEN (May 24, 2005)

Hi, 

I had my second follicle scan yesterday. Prof was scanning, and Geeta was watching don't know why. It does make me laugh though - I am multi-follicular and polycystic, and Prof counts every one of myfollicles, he got up to about 25 on each side this time.  

Anyway - I am now on day 9 of stimms - had an oestradol blood test which is still showing that I am a little low - so dose has now been upped a little bit. 

I could see about 6 follicles on either side that were between 7 and 9mm, don't know whether thats good or not.

Back in on friday for another blood test and scan - Lizzy said that if there are a few at about 15mm, then we are looking at EC on monday.

Leexx


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Lee - This sounds like good news! Sending you      vibes so your follies get nice and ready.

Lou
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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Lee that sounds really good hunni!!     


Well we talked last night and am definately doing my IVF cycle again in April/May I cant wait to get started again now   I must be a glutten for punishment me!

ANyway I hope you girls arent going to stir crazy on the 2WW      

Holly I hope your ok??

Love

Debs
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## Mands (Aug 16, 2005)

hi girls

Lee - your news sounds great - best of luck

Debs- glad to hear you will be back on the bandwagony  soon

Lou - I went to ARGC after Barts - and the difference in monitoring is ENORMOUS! I don't know about other NHS - but Barts seem to stick to a firm routine and that's it - absolutely bonkers when you consider how different all our bodies are. BTW - what site did u chart your temps on?

I was meant to have a scan today - but it was one disaster after another, I couldnt get a parking space, so decided to drive to another train station, I hit traffic and accidents then roadworks  at EVERY turn, and it took an hour and half to do the 20 min journey to the other station, to find there were no spaces there either- on top of which create, hadnt got my appointment booked in. I decided fate was telling me not to bother, and visited tesco. Then proceeded to laden my shopping basket with stuff, and ended up lugging a heavy basket around, which I now have in my head, will have ruined my chances of PG. My dh thinks I am nuts, but paranoia has kicked in! 
oh well!  

love to all 
Amanda xx


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Hmmmm think it will be sooner than I thought.... started AF on day 17 of this cycle   totally unheard of for me and totally poohing my pants something horrible is going on... called the clinic asked them to call back and had nothing back yet   if it is AF and soesnt mess me about anymore will probbaly start mid April now.... no diet for me, cant be bothered wiht it tbh, i love food too much  

Hope everyone else is ok  

love 

Debs
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## LEECOWDEN (May 24, 2005)

UPDATE LEECOWDEN:

Just got back from follie scan. 
Lining is now 8.9mm.

I could see about 7-8 follies on each side, most were 12-13mm and there were two of 15mm. Am going to be scanned again on monday - but am worried now that they could become too big by then - am I just worrying for worryings sake.

Geeta says that she wants about 10 follies of about 18mm. And then EC wil most likely be wednesday or thursday.

Good luck to everyone else.

Leexx


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Debs - have you heard back from clinic re your short cycle? Hope it's just mother nature having a hiccup. I love food too!

Lee, every thing sounds like it's on track. I wouldn't have thought that Monday would be too late and so if you being scanned then you should be ok. Try not to worry.

Mands - sorry you had such a disaster trying to get scanned. Don't worry, you've not jinxed anything, love. 

Me, I have to own up to doing an early test today. BFN. Super silly of me I know. I'm supposed to test Monday. Oh well. Got bloody awful cold. Poo.

Lou
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## emmajordan (Jan 8, 2006)

Hello guys, haven't posted on this site for a while. How is everyone m- I am slowly going crazy     trying to decide what to do. Has anyone actually had the natural IVF done yet - or does she keep persuading for a natural IUI 

How has everyone found it ? any BFP's yet

I'd love to hear from you guys 

love 

emms


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Hi Ems,

I had the natural IVF, but it got abandoned as my body didnt wanna play ball   nearly got to EC  

Lou no they never called me, although I wasnt in work yesterday and I left that number for them so who knows, I may go in monday to a message on my voicemail, I am not sure what happened, but this AF is a proper one, the one I had after the natural was abandoned now doesnt seem to have been anything... I only bled lightly for two days   so not quite sure what went on.... I wish this one would go away though its nasty!!

Lee hunni, Geeta knows what she is doing with the IVF and follies babe... they wont get too big by Monday hunni      

Hope everyone else is ok?? Holly hope your doing alright babe  

Hugs

Debs
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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Hiya,

Lee good luck for your scan today, hon.

Mands - how you doing?

Debs - Hope you get answers on early AF from clinic, hon. So frustrating when our bodies play up. 

Holly - don't know if you still around. Thinking of you. What are your plans atm?

Not good news from me. I got AF while doing the test this a.m. I know it was a no go though anyway. I'll call Geeta and see what she recommends I do now. sigh. Onwards and upwards.

Lou
x


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Awwwwwwww Lou sweetie  I dont know what to say hunni


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## LEECOWDEN (May 24, 2005)

This is for you Lou


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Lee I keep meaning to say that is a beautiful dress your wearing there!!!


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## LEECOWDEN (May 24, 2005)

Thankyou Fidget, that was my wedding dress. I lost 5 1/2 stone before my wedding, so I am rather proud of my pictures.


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Thanks, girls, means the world to me.

Lee - it is indeed a lovely dress. You're right to be proud.

Create just called. Geeta doesn't want me to do another IUI. She wants to see me for review appt. So, I'll be missing tx this cycle. Probably better to do it this way than go straight into another tx. Seeing her on the 9th.

Lou
x


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

will probably do the world of good lou, having a month off, you and hubby can have some fun


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## emmajordan (Jan 8, 2006)

Hello guys - well I took the plunge and booked my first appointment on the 21st of March (gulp). I really want to do the natural IVF rather than the natural IUI now. Will she persuade me to do the IUI. I am 35, 36 in July. I do have a DD with my DH and we have been trying for number 2 for 16 months now. We have been fully tested and I have a slight luteal phase defect and a little low in progesterone (but not much) so basically unexplained ! 

I know I have kind of asked this already but does anyone think that I will be put off the natural IVF and kindly pushed into the IUI I strongly feel that my eggs are not fertilising so I don't think IUI would be the one for me and hubbies sperm is fine, even good ! 

Anyway still feeling a bit     but glad that I have things underway.

Any views tips etc gladly recieved

love
ems


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

You know, Debs, probably a good idea. I'm so bad at this. I find I only wanna do the do when it counts. Which is crappola for both of us. Not sure I'd resist being on a DIY cycle anyway. Unexplained means it's always tx cycle. But at least this way I get to go back to the gym for the whole month to work on my love handles...

Emma - I'm sure Geeta will give you all the pros and cons. But in the end the decision will be yours. Geeta just said she DIDN'T want me to go straight into another IUI cycle, so that's a sign she wants to do what's appropriate for every case. Great you made a decision.

L
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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Emma,

Geeta will only suggest to you what she 'thinks' is right, if you decide to do the IVF she will be behind you 100%, she told us she could do IUI, natural IVF or full IVF or we could go away and continue ttc naturally...... so I am sure you will have plenty of choices!!

Good luck hunni...

Well we should be cycling late April/ early May so looks like some of us will be going together again  

Hugs

Debs
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## LEECOWDEN (May 24, 2005)

Hi all just got back from final follie scan.

Have about 6 follies on either side. EC set for Wednesday at 10.15am. Have to HCG trigger shot at midnight, so out come the match sticks.

Am slightly worried as have a high oestradol level 11,000!!. Geetais quite worried too and has told me to be extremely vigilant.

Leex


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Lee, 

all i can say to you sweetie, is drink water and drink more water!!!

     

hugs

Debs
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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

me again...........

Lizzie did call me on Friday bless her... such a sweetie  

anyway, just putting it down to one of those things.............. 

But while I had her on the phone, I asked what bloods I needed for next cycle as she had said I needed some to be with in 6 months   well it turns our LGFC demand that you have your HIV and heps with in 6 months of EC!!!!!!     Now personally I think that its taking the p*ss, even annually I find a bit insulting.. but every 6 months!!!! am hopefully going to get the gp to do these ones as I just cant justify spending that much money on ridiculous bloods!!!!!!

so just a word of warning to you girls!!

Debs
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## saphy75 (Mar 15, 2004)

New home this way -----> http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,50062.0.html

pam xx


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