# Neg cycle question



## monty moo (May 1, 2013)

My 1st IVF cycle failed when I had a bleed 7/8 days after embryo transfer and I'm unclear as to whether 
This is a period or not? We want to cycle again in 3/4 month( no frosties) and I need to know if I can use 
Opk or not yet? Also should I ask any specific questions as to why cycle ended so quickly. Really appreciate
any advice or info thanks. I'm 37 Dh 35 we r unexplained x


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## MrsJ35 (Apr 14, 2013)

Hi, My first cycle failed in the same way. I believe that it is classed as a period although I may be wrong! I used OPK last month and they gave me a reading around the time I've had it previously.
We were unexplained as well. Was your last cycle on the NHS? Ours was and since then we have had some further tests that we didn't have on NHS and have found that the problem probably lies with the quality of my eggs.
The questions I would ask (if you don't know these already) is did you respond as well as hoped? Was the fertilisation rates good? Do they think you LP is long enough? What will they do differently this cycle?

Good luck with your next tx. xx


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## monty moo (May 1, 2013)

Hi Mrs J thanks for replying. My cycle was on nhs and we are doing another in 4 months. Thanks for questions to ask I think I responded quite well i had 13 follicles although only 5 eggs. 3 fertilised and until day 3 we had too grade embryos. Only one went on to early blas one stopped at 4 days and one perished so we had the 2 put back. I think for my age thats normal. Its hard to know when your no expert isnt it. Where did you have other tests done and was it costly? Thanks montymoo


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## MrsJ35 (Apr 14, 2013)

Will your next cycle be on the NHS? The AMH test cost around £50 but tells you what your ovarian reserve is and allows them to up your medication so that you respond even better. For example my first treatment on 150mg of stims I got 12 follies and 8 eggs. Next cycle on 300mg I got 19 follies and 19 eggs (various grades tho)
All my tests and treatment was in Leeds. 
What about you?


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## monty moo (May 1, 2013)

Thanks Mrs J I wondered if they might up the meds next cycle
I was on 175 so maybe they will try higher dose now. My second 
Cycle is also NHS and I'm in Tayside in Scotland. They do AMH test 
As standard here so I had that before 1st cycle I think it only tells you
Reserve as opposed to egg quality. Are you going to cycle again? It's
Such a stressful journey isn't it! How did your second cycle go? We plan 3
Total paying for 1 then a rethink. What about you? What age are you? What was
Your AMH? I heard England are using sure 24 in 3 hospitals its meant to assist 
In good embryo selection might be worth looking into for you? Wishing you lots of
Luck xxxx


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## monty moo (May 1, 2013)

Sorry just read your age and cycles below thread I don't know how
to add that lol r u in 2 wk wait now? Everything crossed 4 you x your age
is on your side hon


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## Sew it (Jul 30, 2013)

Hi,

Sorry to hear about your first failed cycle. Ours has just failed too so I know what you are going through.

Can I ask what extra tests you had to determine the quality of your eggs?  I've had AMH, but was wondering if there was something else that they can do to test egg quality.

Thanks, 
x


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## goldbunny (Mar 26, 2012)

sew it the only test for egg quality is to try and fertilise one. amh only tells you about quantity not quality. it's a generalisation that quality declines with age but only actually doing icsi/ivf will tell egg quality...they don't know until they actually put things under a microscope...


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## Sew it (Jul 30, 2013)

thanks Goldbunny.  I am hopeful that since 4 of the 8 fertilised, that maybe my eggs are ok then.  I think that the others might have been immature, as they were sub 13mm at our last scan, which was 3 days before EC.  We have our review booked for 11th Sept, so hopefully they can tell us more then.  It can be hard to accept that we were just unlucky, but maybe we were.

I see you are in the 2WW.  Hope you are holding up ok and I have everything crossed that its a BFP for you!

x


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## goldbunny (Mar 26, 2012)

thanks sew it, and good luck.


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## BraveGirl (Mar 30, 2010)

thats quite early to bleed.  Can they give you more progesterone support maybe?


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## monty moo (May 1, 2013)

Hi Sew it,

Sorry to hear your cycle failed too my review is Aug 22nd so I csn update on here if it helps you.Im soooo disappointed too and like you want to believe it just wasnt to be this time but need reassurance that theres no issue with implantation or any other area in latter part of cycle. I bled very heavily for 2 days 8 dpt and didnt know if that was my period if it was it was only a 24 day cycle which is v short! My cycles average at 27 days but can be 25 or 31 some times. Anyway I used opks from day 10 and ir seems my cycle is already back to some normality and I seemed to ovolate on day 16 according to opk so felt some reassurance that we can still try naturally til next ivf! Do you plan another cycle? 
Goldbunny hoping all is well with you xxxxx


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## Sew it (Jul 30, 2013)

Hi montymoo,

It really sucks when there are no answers doesn't it!  Please do come back and update after your review, it is always helpful to hear others who are in a similar situation to you (even though its awful that we need to go through this!)

I definitely need reassurance that there is nothing wrong with any area.  I started spotting, around 8dp a 2dt, but no actual period until 2 days after I stopped the progesterone.  I had a review with my acupuncturist that I have been seeing and she said things to ask were about egg quality (is there anything to do to improve) and implantation issues.  She also suggested that I ask about an uterine scratch,so I think I will ask that too. I'm also in Scotland, I cycled at GRI and have a follow up with them on 6th Sept.

We are not sure what to do next, my heart says I am not ready for this journey to be over and that hopefully we can find the strength to go again, but it also says that this hurts too much and why would I want to put myself through this again!  I might investigate changing clinics to GCRM as although we were paying at GRI, I didn't feel we got a personal service and that it was just 'oh well your AMH is this, we'll put you on this protocol' with no individualised care.  It is more expensive though, so will need some careful thought if we do go ahead.

I think I have ovulated this month, I've never used OPK as dr advised against it, maybe I will invest in some.  My cycles average from 24-28 days and tend to be very regular.  I too am glad that there is some normality returning, hopefully means that my system was not overwhelmed with the drugs!

When do you think you will cycle again?

Hope you are doing as ok as you can be xxxx


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## MrsJ35 (Apr 14, 2013)

Monty - This cycle they upped me to 300mcg menopur. My AMH is 14 ish I think (can't remember exactly) how's yours? 
Think the issue definitely lies with the quality of my eggs as out of 19 only 7 fertilised this time. On day 3 we got a 7 cell grade 3, 4 and a 10 cell 3, 3. (4 is best at my clinic) much better than last cycle but I'm still in my 2ww so only time will tell if it is good enough.
To get the pink writing on your posts go to profile, forum profile and then add it in the box that says signature. Let us know how your review goes. x
Sew it - Sorry to hear your tx didn't work. I know what you mean about not being ready to stop but at the same time it is so bloody hard to get more knock backs. Hope everything works out for you. x


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## monty moo (May 1, 2013)

Sew it and Mrs J 
I know how you both feel I sometimes feel like I cant put myself through another disappointment never mind the treatment but when u want something do badly its hard isnt it! We are due to cycle again in November and my AMH was 10 so being 37 I said I would do 3 ivf before my next birthday then decide! Didnt think it would b so hard though if im honest! I willmupdate you all with how review goes and pray for good news for us all in the long run xxx am planning to write down questions aboiut implantation egg quality upping drug does embryo scratch etc and any other things i can think of tombadger them with ha ha


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## Sew it (Jul 30, 2013)

Hi monty moo and MrsJ35,

It is bloody hard to get knock backs all the time!  Apart from not being able to conceive naturally, my first knock back was my AMH coming back at 4 which is low for my age.  That really knocking the wind out of me, but the dr was not too concerned and said it would not reduce our chances of IVF working.

monty moo, before I started all this, I said I would do 4 cycles of IVF, and then after that I'd be done.  Never in a million years did I think it would be this hard when the first one doesn't work, so hard that I am not even sure I can face round 2 never mind 4!  Great that you are due to go again in Nov, it gives you something to focus on.  I'm just focusing on my review on the 6th and getting through the week so that Saturday comes and my holiday with it!  

MrsJ35 I have everything crossed for you and hope that you are surviving the 2ww as best you can! Let us know how you get on.

xx


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## MrsJ35 (Apr 14, 2013)

Unfortunately round two wasn't meant to be sew it. Thanks for your positive comments though.
How are you feeling now about everything?
Monty - hope the review goes ok.x


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## monty moo (May 1, 2013)

Mrs J so sorry your second cycle was  bfn, hope you are ok  Its such a massive disappointment I hope you are being kind to yourself x Are u clear on what next? Promised i would share my review with you girls and would love to hear your thoughts or experiences! My consultant said that my response had been good, good number of follicles and good quality embryos the only neg was out of 10 follicles we only retrieved 5 eggs there was no answer as to why that was though wasnt much to worry about as quality was still good. I asked about the reason for no implantation and more progesterone but was told there had simply been no implantation and that was it. I asked if we would be short protocol again then with higher dose to get more eggs/ follicles and was told no in case of ohss. Consultant is suggesting long protocol on basis short didnt work which I thiught sounded a bit shot in the dark! He said it may produce more eggs or it may not! Next cycle is also Dec and not Nov so was a wee bit disappointed especially if its 6 weeks from dec seems a long way off and worried its over christmas/ new year! I take it units stay open over this period! Bit of a thought a new year et lol! Anyway doin my v best to take the positives and march on with the whole process. Also going to go to counselling which i didnt yet. Any thoughts or opinions always welcome and hope you are both doin as well as can b expected in this  battle, Monty moo


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