# Don't know when to give up on IVF with my own eggs...emotional



## jennyH1 (Mar 10, 2019)

Hi everyone,

I'm just gone 46 and myself and my hubby have had 2 failed ivf cycles with my own eggs.

On our last transfer we were told by the embryologist that our remaining 2 embryos were of the highest grade and in perfect condition and to basically start looking for a crib.

I can't tell you how heartbroken we were to see another BFN. What happened to our super embryos!!
I  literally started crying... like heaving and a day later drove to the clinic and demanded to speak with an embryologist. I don't know about England but in Ireland it's easier to organise a chat with Beyonce than get time with an embryologist. I find that especially frustrating seeing as after the age of 40 the embryologist becomes more important than the consultant (in my opinion)

Anyway I questioned and questioned this poor lady and essentially forced her to give me an answer...am I too old to have a baby at 46 with IVF or not??
Her answer....."due to your good AMH I would say you've got another shot but with PGS screening"
I didn't know whether to laugh or cry!!!
Now (mainly because of what she said) we are trying one last time.

My question for you guys is....am I bonkers

Has anyone here ever had success with their own eggs over 45
My first consultant advised that women who've already had kids have a much better chance. This would be our first.

Lost and heartbroken and need to decide if it's worth going again or is it time for donors

Thank you so much for even reading this...this is THE hardest decision of my life!!!


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## HopefulKayte (Jun 16, 2017)

I’m sorry, and I also know what it’s like to contemplate moving on to DE.
I think that was an unfortunate thing for the embryologist to tell you - and irresponsible. It’s very unlikely to have a baby with OE at 46 (though having 2 blasts is great.) Same but different - I remember when my RE (who I actually didn’t think much of by this point) told me she believed my one excellent looking PGS-tested blast would “100% work”. Intellectually and logistically I should have realized this claim was not a sure thing and something she should not have said, but her being the expert and me knowing it was our last OE try, I bought into it. The BFN hurt even more coming down from that.
I think if you have the money and feel emotionally/physically able to try another round, then why not. (Knowing the odds are against you, but because you made blasts, which is further than some are able to get. However, that doesn’t mean (even going by their appearance) that they are likely to be viable, but every now and then it does happen.
I think moving onto DE feels huge, new, overwhelming, and scary, but after going forward I’ve found much of these emotions are behind me and it was another step in the journey. Now it’s about the chance to be a mother, have and love a child, and not let too much more time pass by where this can be a reality and you can spend the time together in life. (My opinion.) I did see a fertility counsellor to get to that point, discuss fears and options, and it was a great resource to me.
Once I made the jump, it wasn’t the quick success that some others do have. You just never know - many are successful on the first try and others need to keep plodding away. Just as I learned through my 30s with embryos that could look great but result in BFNs or sadly a m/c, this also happened to me with donor eggs. (Just goes to show that even young, proven donor eggs don’t guarantee a sure thing, but I believe persistence pays off.) For us, the answer was to go for double donor embryos and I’m now 33 weeks pregnant. A baby to love is a baby to love, and after all the humming and hawing about moving to DE, I don’t even think about it anymore. It’s a miracle to be pregnant and in a way, a gift to this child to know how hard I fought for her and wanted her. 
Sorry for the rambling post, just sharing my responses to your thoughts and current experience. I know it’s really hard to have a let down, and also think of making a family in an alternative way. I can’t recommend enough talking to someone experienced with where you’re at right now. Hang in there!!


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## nevertoolate (Jul 15, 2015)

hi

i've been exactly where you have been and i completely feel for you. I was told i had more chance trying naturally than ivf. i had 3 failed rounds of own egg and then went onto donor. it is true it does feel awful and scary but now i have my baby i could not be happier that i made that decision. 

I think personally that your clinic are being very over optimistic, but for me the own egg rounds were something i needed to draw a line under it all and move onto donor. if you are being told the embryo is top quality perhaps ask for more support to see why you are getting the BFN. perhaps get them to check if your drug protocol is at the correct levels to support you.

I wish you well in your decision and wish you all the luck in the world for a positive outcome xx


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## K jade (Aug 11, 2013)

I'd say you've been given some quite strange and frankly irresponsible advice from your clinic. 
Egg quality is pretty set. It's not improved by having had children before. However in times gone by it wasn't unusual for women to have their last child in their mid 40s if they'd already had a dozen previously and started in late teens /early 20s-perhaps that's what your consultant is referring to. 

I'd say if your set on trying with oe again go 4 it, but perhaps look at natural modified ivf or clomid banking rather than standard ivf. 
Penny at Serum is very good for this. 

My eggs were scrambled at 30 and I moved onto DE at 34. 
Best of luck whatever u decide 
X


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## Loulou4- (Sep 18, 2014)

I agree I think your clinic have been unprofessional in not preparing you for it to fail, even if you were 10 years younger and the embryo still looked top quality there's obviously no guarantees it will implant and impossible to know exactly why. That's why this journey is so frustrating. 
If your set on trying again  with your own eggs then that's the right thing to do, but if your more realistic about your odds then hopefully might make things easier if it doesn't work. 
If and when you choose to move to donors hopefully you'll see this as such a positive step , your chances are so much better and some pressure is off you. My ovaries failed before I even got to try with my own eggs so I was donor eggs from the off at 33. But it's the best thing I've ever done and my daughter is all mine. Best of luck XX


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## jennyH1 (Mar 10, 2019)

Hopefulkayte, nevertoolate. Kjade and Nikimar16 thank you so so much for taking the time to reply.

You know what your all absolutely right. It was crazy that the clinic gave us such hope and even though my head registered that it was a long shot,my heart so wanted to believe them. The difficult thing for me is that from the start we've always reached blastocyst on both cycles and the clinic were always saying that this was rare for my age which stupidly made me believe I was the exception. 

I think in order to feel truly like I've tried everything with my OE's  I'm gonna give it one last shot but you guys have helped me be more realistic this time. We've actually started gathering all our info  for the last cycle in Prague..Gennet (never been before) It costs quarter the amount so I won't feel as if I'm throwing potential future ivf money down the swanny! (Well...not huge amounts of it anyway)

Good news is in the process of doing this it was recommended to me to have a mammogram (due to my age) I suddenly felt so worried that if something nasty showed up I may not be able to have children at all!!! It was a real.."Holy sh*t" moment and I instantly yearned for my little donor egg baby. I know I would love that baby the exact same way so whats the fuss about. I wasn't always this positive...it was a definite change in my thinking. SO...now we've decided to look into and possibly get on a waiting list for DE and I feel great about it. We can do both OE and plan for DE at the same time.

Hopefulkayte- you weren't rambling I was so appreciative of your thoughts on this and a massive congrats on your pregnancy!!

nevertoolate- I did ask for more support but was basically told it's an age thing.That does annoy me .. they don't tend to suggest the same level of testing someone younger would get or even really properly look at what else could have gone wrong. I know..I'm 90% sure it's age related but what if it wasn't. Thanks for your reply tho and hope your own journey is going ok.

Kjade- I've never heard of clomid banking..what is that and btw thanks so much for your reply

Nikimarl6- Thanks to you too for your reply and lovely to hear you've now got your very own little one


I'm just new to this site so thanks again ladies for your advise it's just brill...go girl power ;-) xx


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## bombsh3ll (Apr 19, 2012)

Hi jennyH1

Giving someone the impression they are likely to (or even have a chance) of taking home a baby after OE IVF at 46 is unscrupulous and cruel. In my opinion clinics cynically encourage women over 40 to try with their own eggs for far longer than is ethical, as multiple cycles are lucrative and donor eggs scarce. 

It is valid not to look for other reasons at your age, as even if something was found and corrected, you would still be dealing with 46 year old eggs. 

I may be a bit of an oddity but I chose DE at 31 despite having tons of good quality eggs of my own. I had been very ill with OHSS twice plus stimming caused me to develop a hydrosalpinx which is embryotoxic. I saw it as both a relief and an upgrade. 

I can sure empathize with being desperate to be a mother, but I have never understood the perception of OE as being superior (unless perhaps all your family look like models, competed in the Olympics & lived until 120  ) like a holy grail to be pursued at all costs even when it is clearly standing in between you and your dream of a baby. 

Maybe sit down with a pen & paper & try and make a list of reasons why you feel OE would be better. I think you'd find it much shorter than you imagine. And if you could give your future baby a gift, being conceived from a 20-something egg rather than a 46 year old one would be a great advantage. 

Good luck with your journey, 

B xxx


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## jennyH1 (Mar 10, 2019)

bombsh3ll thanks for your reply.

I'm delighted for you that you came to your decision on DE without hesitation. It isn't always that straight forward for people and I guess you have to respect that for each individual person it is a personal decision. I in no way think OE are superior and in fact would feel blessed to have a baby at all!!! Everyone needs to go through their own personal process to get there however..no two people are the same.
I respect that you think it's valid not to be offered further testing at 46 however I will be seeking same. It would be helpful to know that there is nothing else wrong so in the event we do decide on DE all eventualities will be covered. Just to put it out there I know several people over 40 who have had success with IVF and OE so I suppose they made the right decision for them to keep trying.
We are now looking at both OE and DE and are equally positive about both.

Best of luck with your own journey x


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## Mochashosh (Jan 23, 2018)

Hi Jenny 

I completely empathise with you.  I had 4 rounds with OE, and the clinics have basically told me to give up now. I turned 46 last week.  Not much to celebrate there.

I've also had blastocysts twice, but I became pregnant on a Day 2 transfer.  Sadly it didn't last.  People make a big fuss about blastocysts, but as far as I can see, the success rates aren't necessarily higher with blastocysts than with earlier transfers, so I'm not sure that the evidence bears out the excitement.  There also seems to be a difference between under and over 42 or 43.  We often lump all the over-40s together, but that doesn't seem to be bourne out by the evidence either.  Most clinics won't even consider women over 45 with OE, and some won't consider women over 40.  I think it's not a bad idea to get tested if you can bear it, because then you know you have explored every possibility.  Sadly, sometimes there are no answers; things happen 'just because', and life can be extremely cruel.  

I don't have any answers for you, but I do understand.  Personally if your clinic is OK with it and if you can afford it, I would try it, but be very realistic about your chances, and think about what you will do if it doesn't work out (although obviously we all hope and pray that it will).  Of course you want your own genetic child if you can.

If you do need to consider moving to DE at any point you may find it helpful to talk to other mums who've been in a similar position, or even (this might sound a bit odd, but it's what I'm going to do) if you know a lesbian couple who have a child, where one of them isn't the genetic parent, talk to the non-genetic parent and see how she feels about her child.  If you don't have anyone like this that you know personally, remember that you can message any lady on this board privately if you would like to, and everyone wants to help, because every one of us knows the heartbreak of this journey.  

Just wanted to also let you know that my friend had DE twins at 50 and loves them to bits even though one of them is extremely challenging (they are now 12).  She thinks I'm absolutely insane, and yelled at me today to just bl00dy get on and find a donor.  So that tells you how she feels!


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## Momfor4 (May 4, 2016)

Hi
I just did want to tell my story, but it was just before I was 44y.
I was proposed to have a cycle where we did add a donor as well. We did do PGS for embryos from my own eggs and from donors.
This resulted one euploid embryo from my egg and all embryos were viable from donors eggs.
We made decision, in order to increase success rate, to put two embryos back. One from my eggs, one donor. We have now twins. Why I write this is that I want to bring up how strong the epigenetic effect is; they do look so much alike that sometimes even my mother does mix the boys. Everybody does say that they must be identical, despite they are not. So what it written about epigenetics is so true. This one cell, egg, what we got, would have become a total different child if someone else would be the mother.
I have not had any regrets on using donor egg.


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## noanoa (May 28, 2015)

Hi Jenny

Sounds like you have good plan now but thought I would just add my story anyway in case of others reading looking for answers. 


The mothers age does seem to be the most influencial factor on fertility but I think you need to look at other factors too...

-Length of time trying to conceive - My Husband and I had been trying to conceive for 7 years before we went for donor conception. For some of those years I was still classed as young enough to be a donor myself. I have no tubal blockage and my husband had lots of sperm so when you calculate the monthly attempts (probably close to 80) and failed oe cycles then you really should start accepting that there must be some serious quality issues. 

- Age of Father- My husband is now 46 and our last failed oe and o sperm cycle his sperm was far far worse than it had ever been. Both in abnormalities and quantity. This contributed to our decision to go for double donor. So remember that Sperm is also very affected by age. By the time I reached 39 all the fertility experts I saw kept just saying it was my age that was the problem - but what was the problem when I was 33 then? 


I am currently 17 weeks pregnant with double donor embryo and am over the moon. I do wish  I had done it years ago but  maybe I wouldnt have felt like I had given my oe and sperm a fair crack of the whip. 
I couldnt be happier with my my decision now though as its only now that realise how anxious I have been for the last 7 years. Having a donor embryo has taken a lot of the stress of worrying about chromosomal abnormalities away. 

I hope you get you bfp soon x


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## Rillischen (Jan 20, 2018)

Thanks for starting this thread. It’s really helpful hearing different peoples experiences and views. I started IVF earlier this year age 43, had 2 rounds of natural modified with OE and donor sperm and am about to transfer my one resulting 3 day 10 cell embryo. Hoping and praying that it works but am thinking a little about what next if it doesn’t. Would I do a few more OE cycles or move to DE? I was adamant I would never consider DE a few months ago... but something has shifted a bit, partly because the whole process is so emotionally and financially draining working with 6% chances... partly reading the amazing stories of women with DE babies on this site. I’m still considering and could go either way so I empathise with where you are at. Good luck with making your decision x


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## jennyH1 (Mar 10, 2019)

Thanks ladies for all your replies. I'm not gonna lie this has been a massive struggle for me and reading all your stories has helped me so much!!

Mochashosh - Happy belated birthday!!!! Hope you were in some way able to enjoy it. Aw God I really feel for you what a crappy way to start your 46th year. I'm really sorry you've had such a hard road. Ya know ya see people having x amount of cycles and sometimes it just turns into numbers and you forget how difficult each and every single one was. To have had 4 and to have gotten pregnant for it just to fail..my heart breaks for you. Just so ya know I think your amazing to have tried so hard at our awld age ;-) and you can certainly be sure you tried everything possible!!! Kudos to you your great!!! I really hope if your choosing the DE road that you have all the success you deserve!! All any of us wants is to have a family and I hope that happens for you. Sadly there's no one I know who has a child from DE to ask. There's probably lots but maybe they choose not to disclose ..which is totes their own beeswax. I do feel positive about DE..it's just giving up the dream that's a struggle but I know once I cross that line I'll be super positive and won't look back. Your 50yr old friend made me giggle..she's right..maybe she could have a word with me too ;-) BTW..did you read momfor4's reply just after yours? Have a look it's really interesting x


Momfor4 - Wow your reply was so interesting to read. Thank you so much for posting it. If anyone else like me coming across this thread has doubts your post will really reassure them. I'm going to do more research into the BIO end of things when it comes to DE. I've read that MicroRNA's are secreted into the Mother's womb suggesting that some genetic material can be passed. Congrats on your twins x

noanoa-  Oh my God congrats on your pregnancy!! So exciting. Thanks a mil for your reply. Yeah we've been trying naturally for years prior to ivf too. My hubbys sperm was given a huge thumbs up despite being the same age as me but it's interesting that you say it deteriorated between cycles. It makes sense that the male factor is also at play..your right that's often forgotten. I'm actually going to organise another semen analyses for him after what you've said so thanks for making me think of it. I'm so happy for you that your able to have a stress free pregnancy..it makes huge sense. Best of luck with everything now and make sure your pampered ;-) x


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## jennyH1 (Mar 10, 2019)

Rillischen - just spotted your post. Don't thank me I'm just delighted that this is here to help us all. It is such a difficult decision and one I think only other woman who've had to face it can possibly understand!! I feel really bad for you but it's also lovely to hear your story too and know that I'm not alone in this confusion. When I look back I initially had nightmares about the whole concept of DE but the more time has gone by and ivf's failed and  the more I've spoken to people here the more positive I'm becoming. I just read an article from a Mum with a DE baby who said..."when the time comes for DE you'll know and remember your love is the first love they'll feel. Your heartbeat is the first thing they'll hear". I thought that was really special. In the meantime only the very best of luck with your transfer. I've got my fingers and toes crossed for you x


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## deblovescats (Jun 23, 2012)

Just wanted to add my story. I totally understand anyone having doubts about DE. To reassure you, I went down the DE route and have never regretted it. I have two absolutely beautiful children, a son who is 4 and a daughter of 2. I have two embryos in storage and am planning another cycle to try for no 3. I went straight to DE as I was in my mid 40s when I started and was advised the stats were 5%. As I was funding myself and also as a solo mum, I couldn't afford repeated failed cycles. I deliberated for a while, but didn't hesitate for long. My first two cycles of DD failed. I changed UK clinics and got success first time with them, and then the second FET cycle was also successful.
Believe me, when you are carrying your baby, it is your baby, not the donor's. You feel their kicks, you see your belly swelling, you see the scans of the little person inside you. They are reassured by your heartbeat. They hear your voice first and recognise it when they're born. My children are totally bonded to me. I am so busy raising them, I rarely give the donor aspect a thought.
To me it's a no brainer really, if you want to have a baby. The odds are 50-60% against potentially 5% or less. 
People who see my children, say how like me they are. When I took my son to the clinic as a baby, to discuss my next cycle, even the donor nurse thought he looked like me.


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## HopefulKayte (Jun 16, 2017)

Just saw your reply and that you’re headed to Gennet. Excited for you! Gennet was where we travelled to for our double donor baby.... cannot recommend them highly enough. You’re in excellent hands. DM me if you need anything as you prep!


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## jennyH1 (Mar 10, 2019)

deblovescats - Thanks so much for your input. I'm getting more and more excited about DE with all you guys support and I can't tell you how much it's helped. I totally get what your saying. When all is said and done and your busy getting on with life and bringing up your family the DE thing just goes out the window. Really lovely to hear that it's no longer this big thing in your life. I'm still gonna go the one last time with OE but feel good about the future now if it doesn't work. Best of luck with babs number 3 x

HopefulKayte- Fab to hear you had such a good experience in Gennet. Yeah we're still going to try one last time with OE but feeling so much better about DE since all you guys have replied. Without sounding soppy it's made such a difference for me!! We're still getting a few tests done that prior clinics had not asked for..PAP smear mammogram etc but I will definitely contact you if I have any questions re Gennet. So far their emails have been prompt and informative. I'm slightly concerned for when I'm stimming will they get back to me after scans quickly enough to alter stimms if needed... but so far they seem v professional.Hope your pregnancy is going well and your enjoying every second x


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## deblovescats (Jun 23, 2012)

Jenny  - good luck with your cycle! I think everyone has to work out whether to try OE first or how many times to try it before they can move on to DE. I was very lucky and love my children unconditionally. When they hug me and want cuddles, I don't look at them and think oh, you were from DE. It's not that I don't occasionally think about it, but life is hectic and you just get on with it. I know there might be issues further down the line, but I just hope my children know how much I love them and that I'd do anything for them, and they were so wanted that I went down that route. I knew how much I wanted a baby and that was my best option. As they grow, when you talk to other people and go to groups etc, the talk gets away from conception and pregnancy, and it follows the usual topics of nursery, school, development, etc so you don't focus so much on the DE aspect. No one has ever asked about it, they know I had IVF but everyone has assumed it's OE. The only one who knows so far is my sister. It's not that I'm not going to tell the children, but I think it's their concern and no one else's at this stage.
I do think that the media should put a more positive spin on their coverage of DE, as it gives negative messages to potential recipients.


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## deblovescats (Jun 23, 2012)

I think as well, that you become more relaxed, as you know you have a back up plan with good odds of having a baby. When I had my successful cycle, knowing I had 3 blasts in storage meant I felt more relaxed knowing I had back up embryos!


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## jennyH1 (Mar 10, 2019)

Thanks debslovescats,


I agree. I'm way more chilled than I've ever been before any cycle even though it should be the opposite. Last chance saloon with OE and all the nervousness and apprehension that comes with that. Funnily enough I just feel excited for the future. I think when your chances of a BFP are increased through the DE route you just feel more hopeful again. Like I was st the start of this whole journey. I'm so relieved to feel this way!!!!

I'm 100% with you on the media and society's view of DE. I wish it wasn't this big secret that no one talks about but at the same time I totally respect parents decisions not to disclose..we may end up going that road ourselves I don't know yet. It's so personal and needs real consideration. I think your main concern would be protecting your child and that's number one. It's just a shame their aren't more documentaries or articles on it where it can be openly discussed without judgement and therefor made to feel more the norm for infertility treatment. 

Thanks for the chat debs x


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## rainbows44 (Oct 12, 2018)

Hello, I'm 45 so similar age to you, we're in the same category

No need to give up on your Own Eggs yet if you are still menstruating regularly

In our age group the odds are low, so we have to expect a long road of many cycles to get to our goal. It might take 10 cycles or even more.

IMHO, the embryologist was wrong, bordering on unethical, to get your hopes up like that.

Having massively high hopes on a cycle will only lead to devastation if it doesn't work, which is self-defeating.

I am on my 3rd cycle now. I wasn't devastated by the first 2 failures because I know my doctor learns from each failure and he tinkers with the hormones and cycle length to see what happens. Eventually he will get there - it's an art as much as a science.

I expect 6 failed cycles before I do PRP therapy on my ovaries, then another 6 cycles to fail before I do stem cell therapy on the ovaries. Then another 6 cycles before I give up.

all embryoes look the same when they put them in. The highest grade embryoes look no different whether you are 18 or 46. The trouble is getting them to stick.

So try not to get on the destructive hope rollercoaster -- instead see it as a long process to get to your goal, which is a life goal after all. None of us should expect it to be easy or instant.

each failure is one more step towards potential (though not guaranteed) success - you can always try Donor Eggs much later. Plus you can also adopt.

If you want to use your own eggs and you are menstruating, keep on trying!

chin up

I just had my 3rd implant, first 2 failed, I won't be sad if this one fails, because I know each failure helps my doctor learn to get it more right the next time.

My doctor would never ever have said to me what your embryologist said to you. He'd say "let's give the dice a roll and see if it sticks, this embryo is as good as any. The chances are still small but we will try" And then we try.

One great thing to help you is positive fertility affirmations

They may not do anything to help your body but they certainly put you in a positive frame of mind and they cannot hurt

you can listen as you fall asleep

fertility and pregnancy affirmations





the happy egg meditation





healing ovaries with meditation music





Also you should be aware of some facts about donor eggs:

- you can use them a lot later than your own eggs -- so first try your best with your own eggs safe in the knowledge that you can always use a donor egg later with your partner's sperm. That way you will never be left wondering.

- a donor egg is not your genetics. It does not have your DNA in it. It cannot pick up your DNA from being in your womb. That is the reality, and you will need to be comfortable with this in the event that you choose this path.

I see a lot of material talking about epigenetics influencing how the genes switch on and off in the egg while it gestates, but when I google search it most of the articles are from IVF Centres who want to sell you a product. They're not scientific research papers.

Epigenetics may have some effect, I'm not an expert on it, but i know enough to know that it's not your DNA. You can easily test this -- if you are a pale Scandinavian and you use a black Zimbabwean donor egg, your epigenetics won't change the fact that your baby will not be a pale Scandinavian.

It is important to think about these things before you make the decision, because it is a big decision.

I wish you the best of luck whatever you decide.


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## Tincancat (Mar 19, 2012)

No epigenetics doesn't mean your DNA passes to baby but it certainly changes expression of genes and that can't be dismissed quite as easily as Rainbow is doing. 

The fact is a genetically identical embryo placed in two different women will have a different outcome.  There is still much we don't know about gene expression. 
TCCx


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## Momfor4 (May 4, 2016)

As said above, DNA and epigenetic are different thing. DNA is in the one cell what you get from the donor, epigenetic is something what is build as ”add on” to this cell, and this comes from the mother.
There are a lot of Research about it, independent from any clinic who provides donor treatments
I already example shared my story; i had a tranfer with two embryos, one my own egg, one donor. And I have twins, by looking them they could be identical and people outside family do mix them all the time. So that strong epigenetic effect was at our case.
With regards age and difficulties to get pregnant is not about to get the embryo implant, but to get a viable embryo. And despite embryo from 18y does look the same under microscope than embryo from 45y, the reality is totally different. If embryos would be PGS tested, stats does show that from 18y eggs 19 or 20 embryos out of 20 would be viable, but from 45y it would be 0-1 out of 20. 
So it is possible, but unlikely. I do have a friend who got naturally pregnant and gave birth at 45 a healthy baby. But it took her 20 failed IVF cycles before this did hapen naturally. But there are always hope if you are ready to try several cycles.


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## bombsh3ll (Apr 19, 2012)

I would say if you are in a position where the chances with OE are extremely low, you just have to balance up how important is having a child vs how important the idea of persisting with OE is even if it results in no baby or delays your happy ending. 

Money is also a factor for many people, and IVF certainly isn't cheap! 

I cannot say I've been in the same position of those on here as I was 31 and stood a high chance of succeeding with my own eggs after moving to an OHSS-free clinic which used much lower stim doses, and if I'd done a freeze-all in the hope my hydrosalpinx would resolve after being aggravated by the stim drugs. In fact I had to go abroad for DE as I was bluntly told by a UK consultant no clinic would "waste" DE on someone who could use their own, but tbh I'd been through enough and just wanted an easier ride with quick results.

I would see it as moving up rather than mournfully moving on. 

My daughter is my spitting image. She looks more like me than most people's naturally conceived children resemble them. 

There are a lot of scientific papers to be found on epigenetics. It is a much wider field of research than just fertility, and investigates why certain members of a family develop a genetic disease whilst others don't, like with breast cancer & alzheimer's genes. 

Yes you could not put an embryo from two very dark skinned gamete donors into a pale skinned lady and get a white skinned child, but DE clinics will always match you up with a plausible donor, ours matched even down to blood group. Also for a given embryo, except for albinism there will be a range of skin and hair tones that they could come out with, within their individual genetic potential.  

It makes me sad to see women who want to be mothers so much that they put themselves through multiple rounds of IVF missing out on their dreams due to often unfounded fear and stigma around DE. 

I have completed my family, & have a lot of experience both going through treatment myself and talking with others who have been/are there and whilst I have seen a lot of women consumed with regret that they didn't pursue treatment soon enough or try xyz, I have NEVER once come across anyone, even anonymously, who had a donor conceived child and wished they hadn't.

B xxx


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## Mochashosh (Jan 23, 2018)

Another factor to bear in mind is that the effect of doing multiple rounds in quick succession on your long-term health is not known.  

I decided to stop trying IVF after 4 goes even though I'm desperate for an OE baby because the long-term risks of cancer if you do a lot of rounds very quickly (which you have to at our age) are unknown, and have to be balanced against the extremely small chances of success (in my case we have male factor infertility to contend with as well as my age).  Plus the process itself is just so brutal, and you will find very few doctors who will treat you with OE over 45.

Even the DE option is not available indefinitely; Britain and most of Europe have a cut-off age of 50.  Plus the more mature you get, the tougher pregnancy and childbirth are on your body.  These are factors to consider.

I personally think a lot of the epigenetic stuff is wishful thinking.  Obviously epigenetics and maternal environment have an influence; it's how great that influence is that's a matter of debate, and only you can decide how much that matters to you.  

There is some not-so-positive research out there about aspects of donor families, but I don't want to upset anyone by sharing it, because it upset me quite a lot.  I think that all any of us can do is consider what's in the best interests of our potential child and act accordingly.  That, after all, is what we will do as parents.


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## jennyH1 (Mar 10, 2019)

Thanks everyone for your input. 

I guess the whole epigenetics debate could go on forever but in truth I'm hoping we as a couple have now moved on from that. The reality is we want to start a family. If that means we end up doing so via DE then that is something I have to accept and try to view as positively as possible. If there is any basis of truth to it then great..if there is not then so be it and I know I would not love my child any less!!
Having given this endless countless hours of head wrecking thought, possibly since we started IVF being aware of our age and the statistics that go with that, I'm now at a point where decisions need to be made. Rainbows44 thank you so much for your thoughts. It sounds like you have an amazing consultant and I wish you absolute success on your journey and really hope your dream comes true!!!  For us the idea of endless cycles is not an option. Personally we need to consider finances and  time. It is such a personal thing and (for me) I would prefer to start a family in the not so distant future. I'm aware that even with DE success may take some time and so (again for me) I don't want to delay starting this process. We are going to try with OE one last time and are prepared now for possible failure. This doesn't mean I won't be mega optimistic and hopeful as I think with any IVF journey positive mental attitude is imperative!! 

momfor4 you now have me thinking we should try find a clinic where they allow OE and DE cycles to synchronise. Do you mind me asking what clinic you attended?

Anyone else out there had transfers of OE and DE embryos at the same time?
This is really interesting to me and not something we had considered.

Thanks everyone x


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## Momfor4 (May 4, 2016)

jennyH71, we went to St.Petersburg, and it was best choice ever. Success at first time. You can PM me if you want to discuss further.


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## jennyH1 (Mar 10, 2019)

Momfor4 thanks so much for your offer to PM you. If we decide to look into it further I will definitely take you up on that offer. I remember you mentioned your success was before you were 44. I guess i'm worried that due to my age it may not work out as well for me as it did you. I'd have to consider that even if we did make it to transferring 2 embryos..one being OE and one DE ..only one may stick. Would I then be left wondering which one it was..my OE or DE. Would that just bring more confusion. Perhaps for me being 46 it's an unrealistic dream. I am so delighted for you to have had such a happy ending to that story though. You are really blessed and thanks for sharing your story. It's at the very least given us information on all possible opportunities out there x


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## rainbows44 (Oct 12, 2018)

Great point JennyH1 where you say having 2 embryoes, Own and Donor, if only 1 sticks there will be confusion. Not just for you but for your child later who has a legal right to know their genetic parents, and may very much want to know.

A donor egg is not your DNA and no amount of epigenetics or wish thinking can make it so.

So think about it carefully and please do not listen when people say: I got pregnant the first time. This is potentially setting you up for more devastation. You are much more likely to have a long road of many cycles, so prepare yourself for it, if you want to use your own eggs.

Prepare yourself mentally to see it as a 10 cycle journey or more, with each failure a closer step towards your goal. That is if you wish to use your own eggs. It is possible, but the chances of us at 45 and 46 respectively, if your periods are regular and your hormones are good for your age, are about 6 to 8% each cycle, my doctor said.

So therefore be realistic, set yourself on a goal for your 10 cycles as locally as you can, since you need regular trips to the doctor (and that's impossible unless you are living overseas for extended times) and I wish you the best of luck for your journey.


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## HopefulKayte (Jun 16, 2017)

Jenny if your uterine environment is sound and you don’t have any health or immune issues that can affect implantation/carrying, or sperm issues in the mix, your age shouldn’t be an issue. In that case it comes down to luck in terms of transferring viable embryos, which have a vastly improved chance of being so when they are from egg or egg and sperm donors.

You’re right that it still isn’t a guarantee on the first transfer, but many women who transfer fantastic looking embryos at your age do become pregnant on the first try, some even with twins if they transfer two. The stats are with no sperm or uterine factors, most women will succeed with donor eggs by the third cycle. For me, when I moved onto donor eggs, it was after a few more years of hanging on with OE cycles determined there was a golden egg in there. $100 000 later, a totally broken personal and work life not to mention health, I realized that such a pursuit was getting ridiculous and as years passed the person I was becoming en route to a potential baby was definitely a deteriorating one! I also watched a few friends in real life and many online go with donor or double donor embryos and create beautiful families. They were and are so beyond happy, and their anguish something of the past.

I was 38 when I did my first donor egg cycle. It resulted in a chemical. The next fresh cycle was a BFN. I was gutted but did retesting and immune testing to make sure the embryos were going into a sound environment. We moved onto double donor embryos, and three transfers later, I’m 33 weeks pregnant.

The women I knew in their mid-40s at the time of first transfer all succeeded and 2 had twins. So it just goes to show the “game” is very different once you’re using donor gametes. I wouldn’t have guessed it would have taken me so many tries and neither would my doctors, but ultimately I feel very grateful. Embryos and which ones will grow into babies is such a huge mystery! My best looking and PGS-tested hatching blasts did not become babies but I knew my greatest chance would come from donor eggs AND persistence. 

You have a great attitude, good luck on your last OE cycle and don’t hesitate for a second about your age being a determining factor should you move onto donor eggs!


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## Momfor4 (May 4, 2016)

Jenny; yes PM me if you want discuss further. The point to put both embryo’s was exactly the fact that we wouldn’t know. As it doesn’t make any difference after you decide to move to donor. Well, there was this chance to be blessed with not identical twins, and now we know that either of boys are from donot
There is no legal right to tell to the child and we never will. He is no different than our other children. And we would not even know to whom to tell this...
This was personal decision and absolutely no regret’s. In addition, we have not told to anybody this, just due to not to confuse people.
We did feel (or mainly I) that the DNA doesn’t play big role on what kind of child you have, but multiple other factors does. Very personal decision.

Good luck! To us it was said as well that with donor eggs we Will have a healthy baby within 3 cycles. Lucky us it was the first


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## esj (Apr 9, 2014)

HI Jenny
I just wanted to jump into this thread as Im also 46 (47 in May) and have finally made the switch to DE after four years of OE treatment both in the UK and at Serum in Athens. The closest we got was a CP with Create two years ago and the last transfer I did with Serum of a top grade blastocyst nearly 18 months ago still resulted in a BFN. I knew then that we couldn't throw anymore money and time at it nor could we cope with the emotional upheaval of OE treatment with such low odds of success. Its taken a while to get here. My partner was absolutely not on board for a long while and I know he still struggles slightly with the idea but we've taken the leap and I'm hopeful of a positive result. If not I know we've tried everything and will live with the outcome. 
You sound super positive and open to the DE avenue so just carry on with your OE cycle knowing that you have this other option.
I'm in Athens now, transferring tomorrow! We got 10 embryos from the donor so Im hoping we may even have a couple of frosties as back up. Will transfer two blastocysts tomorrow all being well. Slightly terrified at the prospect of twins but have been advised it increases the chance of an overall pregnancy by up to 20% so going with it.
Wishing you all the best with your cycle
Love xx


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## Momfor4 (May 4, 2016)

esj ; good luck for tomorrow, how exciting
We were told as well that by transferring two it Will increase the chances about 15 %, and that our chances with PGS tested embryos was 60 % with single embryo.And that chances for triplets was around 1%. And the pregnancy started as triple pregnancy, however one heartbeat stopped around 12 weeks. But so we have twins now


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## jennyH1 (Mar 10, 2019)

Thanks ladies for everyone's continued input. Hopefully it's not just helping me but also all the other ladies in similar positions reading this. Sorry if I didn't get to reply to everyone but I always read every single post and really appreciate everyone's contribution.

esj - I am so so excited for you for tomorrow!!! I really hope all goes perfect for you and you get your little dream. Thanks a mil for sharing your story. You've really had it tough and you so deserve a little bit of luck now. I'm sure when you have your little baby in your arms all your hubbys apprehension will shoot out the window. Lots and lots and lots of luck and fingers crossed for some frosties too xx

Momfor4 - Thanks again for your positive feedback xx


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## esj (Apr 9, 2014)

Thank you Jenny/Momfor4 - 
We had a great result from the cycle- transferred two top grade blasts and froze 3. Transfer went smoothly too so very happy. Now back in London and counting down to OTD.
Will keep following, wishing you all all the best
XXX


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## Momfor4 (May 4, 2016)

esj; good luck for next two weeks!! It was very hard for me to wait....yes tested 4 days after transfer, very light BFP. But it was very faint until OTD plus bleeding, so I was very nervous. But so we still had the best possible  outcome, our little boys


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## jennyH1 (Mar 10, 2019)

Aw esj I'm delighted for you that's brill!!! AND 3 frosties!! Fab!!

Have fingers and toes crossed for you now. Hope you/ve got some time to chillax. This bit is the most exciting!! Enjoy it...really hoping a BFP  comes your way xx


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## miamiamo (Aug 9, 2015)

esj - good luck, keep my fingers crossed


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