# Create Health Clinic Part One



## LEECOWDEN (May 24, 2005)

Please can we have this as a new thread for support!

Thanks

Lee


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

Hi,

second scan went ok, start centritide and gonal f tommorrow, day 10. Then next scan monday.
All seems to be going ok. EC should be on Wednesday.

best

cwsg


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## LEECOWDEN (May 24, 2005)

Great news CWSG - keep us posted. x


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

bad news

no egg collected!

although folicle looked normal, there was no egg inside.

no councelling given to me either, follow up appointment next Friday as Geeta is away in India, her mother died.

We are shocked and very upset.

Cwsg


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## Angels4Me (Apr 8, 2006)

hi all

cwsg; just popping on to say how sorry i am about your disappointment....so disheartening eh. I hope you pick yourselves up soon  

Im having my follow up when Geeta returns. 

Meanwhile im thinking about looking into immune issues....this can be costly....and i dont know if i have these issues....hoping i may discover more tho....


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

Have just found you Create Ladies again!

CW so sorryb to hear of your disappointment. I think the reality is that it is a bit of a gamble as to how many (if any) follicles have decent eggs in them, they can speculate but just don't know for sure until the day of EC (unless of course they mistime the ovulation). As I mentioned before, I had well over 20 follicles and on the day took 6 eggs. I hope your consultation with Geeta when she returns from India can shed some light and maybe offer some future suggestions.

How are you feeling?  

How is everybody else doing? 

Beegey xx


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

hi,

i'm feeling confused right now because I have just had some advice that it may have been because i have had natural ivf that my cyst was fed instaed of my eggs. This advice was from Infertility network uk. The advisor seems to think that natural may not be suitable for me and that i may need downregulation to clear the cysts first? This wouls mean convention IVF, as even in mild ivf they dont do do they?
I may ignor this advice as I was content with my chat to Dr Kasi today, where she explained that i may not get an empty folicle next time.
I will disscuss it all with Geeta.
The other thing is, first Erica said my partners sperm wasn't fantastic, as the motility was a little low, then next time we went in Freda said that his sperm was good as there was so much of it it was bound to have less motility, but this was made up by the extra large count?

I dont want to wait for my next treatment. I want to have it in two weeks. But we can only afford either two more natural cycles or one mild cycle.
The percentage success rate at create isthe best for my age group of 42. Unless i have misread it.
I'm wondering that if the drugs feed my cysts then i'm better off with absolutely no drugs?

it's going to be a hard week of waiting for my follow up consultation.
I have also written to create with some feeback about there after care for women who are unsuccessfull, suggesting that they provide more councelling support.

I do believe in Create clinic and dont want to give up on them and their ideas on natural and mild ivf.
It is hard though when I am being advised by infertility network uk to start again and go down the conventional route.

Jess


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

I've just got my blood results back for progesterone from last month. I did them on day 24 instead of day 21 as i ovulate on day 17 and it was 15.4! This is low.....
I had them done two years ago on day 21 and they were 21.8. Noone thought they were low.

It only now that i'm being told that it should be above 30.
Now something else to worry about. Dr. kasi said that i would need to get two done as day 24 may be too late. Perhaps on day 22 it may have been 30, who knows. I will phone them and ask, they will be so sick of me phoning again, but i need to.

Did you find that most people didn't understand why you went for natural ivf?

Jess


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

Jess, I really agree with Bobbi - you absolutely must do what is right for YOU. I think you are correct in thinking that most fertility patients can't understand the point in natural or mild, but like many things in life, everyone thinks their own way is the best   I personally would not have conventional IVF but then I know that mild works as I am lucky enough to be meeting my bfp in a couple of months.

I also don't know about the cyst issue but I would urge caution when it comes to believing advice you are offered (probably in the most well meaning way) on a website. You really need to speak to a fertility specialist and Geeta will be able to help as you are her patient.

As for the bloods results, I was told to take the test again if the number on the first test wasn't what it should be and I guess next time try to have it taken as close to day 21 as possible. Can you have the bloods done at your gp's to save costs?


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

Hi beegee,

The advice was from a specialist of IFNUK, well, she's not a consultant, i'll check out her background actually. 
It is great that you had a BFP, and that natural IVF suited you. I so hope it suits me too, but I now need to wait till next Friday to talk to Geeta, and I would much rather travel to London again than have a telephone consultation. But we have taken so much time off for this.
I did a day 24 test because Erica said that this would be the right test day for me as I ovulate on day 17. But the Dr kasi said that the right day is between the day you ovulate and your AF day. As this is just ten days for me, it would be on day 22.
I'll get another one done this month. Although I spoke to the french doctor and she said that over ten was fine?? I dont get it.

cwsg


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

CWSG - did you have your meeting with Geeta yet? Maybe it is next Friday...(but that is Good Friday??)

Beegey


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

Hi Beegey,

had follow up consultation today.
As usual Geeta manages to convince me to stick with her reasoning, and not conventional.
She said that my overies were really good for my age and they were all surprised that the folicle didnt have an egg in it. She doesnt seem to think it will happen next time. Although she cant rule it out.
She seems to think I have a good chance of getting pregnant!
She advised mild ivf this time, more eggs, and we boty agree.

I was on the edge of changing my mind and going for conventional as a clinic near me boast 38% success for my age range, but this w3as with just 9 women over 3 months?

Now it's just deciding whether to wait a month or go for it straight away, which would be next week. My partner thinks we chould wait a month sothat I can get over the emotional strain.

Thanks for asking, and how are you doing?

best wishes

Cwsg x


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## Kellois (Jan 28, 2009)

Hello ladies, 

At last, I've found some other Create Health patients!!! I've just been today for my first EC and, like you cwsg, they didn't collect any eggs. I had two follicles (one around 20mm, the other only 11.6). Interestingly they offered us an IUI cycle today instead as they thought the egg might still be released of its own accord, it was just that they couldn't aspirate it (sounds a bit odd to me?). In any case we accepted the IUI offer as we were told we wouldnt get any of our fee back even though there woudl be no culturing of the egg or ET. 

I'm tying to be positive, but am terribly dissapointed with the outcome. I had mild antagonist stimulation this time. We started a short protocol in Jan but after just one week I developed a large cyst - Geeta said that the Gonal F was feeding the cyst, not the follicles - so we had to abandon. With hindsight I wish I had asked for the cyst to be aspirated and the dosage increased (as my friend did at ARGC), but this wasnt offered as an option. So then we had to miss Feb's cycle as I had no follicles worth mentioning and an FSH of a whopping 29 (!!), then started again in March only - once again - to be disappointed. Still have our fingers crossed for a successful IUI but am being pragmatic. I guess we'll just have to save up again and start again as soon as poss.

I've got differing advice from Create staff about how frequently you can have cycles. Freda and Prof Campbell said I could do mild stimulated back to back, but the doctor at the clinic today said you had to wait for a couple of months in between. It would be sod's law that if I wait, the cycles I miss will be the ones where I recruit a few more follicles. 

What are you all going to do?
Kellois
ps am new to this site , how do you set a signature at the bottom with your history
-------------------------------------------------------------
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## mazv (Jul 31, 2006)

Hi Kellois

Information on how to create a signature (pink writing) can be found here... http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=154314.0

Sorry to hear about your poor cycle. Hope you're able to get answers and a new protocol for next time 

Maz x


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

Hi Kellios,

Have they given you an explination for the folicles being empty? 
did they explain it all well to you. I dont understand why they think there is still an egg in there, does this mean they picked out the wrong folicles or that you may have already ovulated.
I though it happened to me because I had natural ivf and I was just very unlucky.
I hope you are feeling ok,  have been in a very upset state over it. 
We have decided to have another go in a month, but this time mild, like you have just done, thinking that it will widen our options.
I also had a cyst back in November last year when I was having IUI.
by the way, i can see your signiture now.

best wishes for the IUI, it can work.

I was told that I would get £100 back as no egg was collected? They said they would put it on my account.
Ask for a follow up consultation straight away with Geeta. 
They need to all give out the same infomation, I had the same experience regardng their interpretation of my progesterone levels, first I was told they were good, then not good, then, by Geeta that it doesn't matter.

Are you at Wimbledon or Harley street?

cwsg


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

Hello

Just wanted to pop on and say hi, as I'm due to start my 1st mild IVF at create this month. Have the drugs in the fridge and am ready to go when AF kicks in.

I've chosen this route as I don't like the idea of pumping myself full of drugs when my system works well - I'm single so really my issue is lack of available sperm    But then who knows might be other things that I don't know about! At the moment all seems good, so fingers crossed that my eggs are ok.

There does seem to be some confusion at Create about communication but I trust the science behind what they are trying to do and I think more clinics will move to mild and natural IVF in time.

Good luck everyone on here - look forward to hearing more about your journeys.

xx


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

hi lulumead,

welcome to the thread.
I used to live in south london before moving to Wales.

cwsg


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

hello just reactivating this sleepy thread

xxxx


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## anneken (Aug 25, 2008)

Evening ladies

I am a patient at Create and wondered whether I could join you all.

I live in Hampshire, and hope to start again in June.

Im usually around if anyone wants to chat.

Best wishes

Ani


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

Hi

I'm literally about to start my 1st mild IVF, should be 1st injection on saturday...although feel like AF might arrive tonight so not sure if that counts as day 1 tomorrow or not....hmmm.

anyone currently under going treatment on this board?
xx


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

Hi
I am starting a mild ivf cycle at create in about 18 days.
Let us know how it goes Lulumead.

Welcome Ani, lets see if we can get this board going again.

cwsg


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## Louise68 (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi everyone,

I´m at Create Health too and should be re-commencing tx in June.

Ani, I notice from your history that you have tried Natural IVF.  That´s where I started off but didn´t get lucky enough for it to work that way.  I´ve since moved on to Mild IVF and manage to produce a reasonable number of follicles with a small dose anyway (so far!).

Good luck, Lulumead with your soon-to-start treatment cycle.  

Look forward to chatting.

Louise


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## Kellois (Jan 28, 2009)

Hi all

I've been away for a week so have only just seen all your messages. We have a follow up with Geeta on Friday so if I glean any useful info about empty follicles I'll post it up. I'm also going to ask her how she can justify offering no refund if you don't get any eggs and therefore abandon the cycle half way through. I am also going to raise with Geeta the lack of after care or counselling we were (not) offered. I had to call the clinic to ask them how I used the Progesterone I had to buy following IUI as I wasn't given any after care information at all. And have been offered no counselling for the empty follicles, which - now I think about it - is pretty poor. 

Bobbi - really interesting what you say about not being able to do mild IVF back to back. I'll ask Geeta. I've been going to the Harley St branch as, even though I live near Raynes Pk, I can't stand the two hour waits. At Harley St I've been seeing Freda and Prof Campbell and I asked them this exact question when last cycle I recruited only two follicles and we had to decide if it was worth doing any stimming. I asked if this would in any way prejudice me starting next cycle and they said no. However, I've already had a couple of inconsistent responses from different people at Create about other questions, so I wont' be at all surprised if I hear the opposite from Geeta.

Also Prof Campbell said that it is usual for FSH to fluctuate cycle to cycle as it all depends on how many follicles are recruited. I went from 10.1 in December, to 7.1 in January then rocked up to 29 in February. What have you heard that I can do to lower your FSH?  

K


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## SusieB20 (Apr 19, 2009)

Hi all

I hope you don't mind me joining this thread but I'd be interested to get feedback from anyone who's had success at Create. I went for an open day yesterday and the lower drug doses really appeal, but my acupuncturist has said that the lower dosage treatments don't work and it's best to go the conventional route.

Any thoughts?

Plus, are the waiting times really as bad at Raynes Park as some others have said? Is it any better at their Harley St clinic?

Thanks

Clare


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

Hi Clare,

I personally have never had any problems with waiting times at Raynes Park. It has so far been very easy in this respect. I am surprised that an accupunturist is saying that it doesnt work? I wonder on what grounds he/she believes this. My accupuncturist didnt know about Natural or mild ivf but is really interested.

cwsg


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

Hello all,

I've just started my injections, on day 2 so have scan on Weds to see what's happening - so intrigued to know if it has any effect.  This is my 1st IVF go.

I did have a long wait for a scan when i went for my 1st consultation but I've kind of resigned myself to waiting at clinics, they all seem to be the same so I just take a book    I did get an appointment really quickly in the 1st place so that was good, within 2 weeks of first contacting clinic.

Having said that when I called to book my scan they could offer me pretty much anytime so it probably depends how busy they are...I think fridays are a bit of a nightmare as Geeta is there and everyone wants to see her.

I'm doing this on my own and have had to import sperm which was a bit of a palaver as they hadn't done this before, which is not the impression they gave me but it did get sorted.  I think with all this process, you seem to have to be pretty proactive and organised yourself.

In terms of success rates, I was told 45% pregnancy and 35% actually walking out with a baby (I'm 36)! so maybe slightly lower than conventional IVF but the science of less drugs and not down-regging just made sense to me....but then again not sure stats mean much, seems to be a bit of luck  

sending     to those who are undergoing treatment. be nice to get some positives and show that this way can work...the 1st IVf baby was through natural iVF after all!!

xx


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

""The percentage success rate at create isthe best for my age group of 42. Unless i have misread it.""


I was under the impression that create did not have any real success rates yet! They have only been going since Sept08 and that is not even a year, so it would be hard to post figures for this time That would compare with other clinics. Prior to Sept08 when I asked they said that their figures were included in the figures for London fertility clinic as they were using their clinic for procedures. LFC have very very low figures compared to other clinics. This can be explained by the fact that they actually do natural cycles which lowers their success rates. But I would chose Create over LFC anyday.

If I am wrong please let me know as I am about to start another natural cycle at Create and while I am chosing to go there I am well aware that the success rates are not published yet, it is a new clinic etc. But for natural they are one of the only clinics that do it. In addition natural has a much lower success rate.


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## anneken (Aug 25, 2008)

Ladies.

Sorry to but in, I just thought I would let you know that the Create Clinic has been going for years, but was originally set up as an outlying clinic for LFC in Harley St.

The whole clinic, including the lab has only been open for a year, but they have been in Raynes Park much longer.

I know this because my hubbie and I went there for the first time in September 2007.  

Best wishes

Ani


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

Hi Ladies - 


Don't mean to keep banging on about it but we were very lucky to get a BFP on our first cycle at Create last Autumn. Our baby girl is due in 9 weeks. We had a very mild dose of stims and believe that we received excellent care from the clinic during the cycle (unfortunately, after care did prove a bit shoddy when we lost a twin early on). We would definitely go back in the future if necessary.

If anyone wants to ask any questions, please feel free to pm me!


Good luck!

Beegey xx


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Sorry if that was a misunderstanding....For their success rates, they are not quoted on the HFEA as they have only started their own clinic in sept08, prior to this their figures were included with LFC.


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## SusieB20 (Apr 19, 2009)

Thanks for the info everyone and it's good to hear of a success story too, Beegey!

Create have published some success rates on their site but they are just for pregnancies per embryo transfer (which are good and not that much lower than UCH etc), rather than per cycle started, which is what I'm more interested in. I've emailed them for further info. I really want to believe in their philosophy but need to see there's a decent chance of success as well. Guess I'll look into it further once I've had my HyCoSy


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## Be Lucky (Mar 22, 2008)

Hi.went 4 an intial consultation and scan bout 7 mths ago at create at raynes pk.decided not 2 go ahead as couldnt face any more ivf.waitin 4 appts was very slow.kellois my fsh went from 10 2 21 then down 2 2.and 2day i just come bk from my 12 week scan after natural bfp and all ok!im 44 in august.hi beegay.i remem u.not long 2 go 4u now.good luck everyone.berniex


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

OMG Bernie!! Thats so fantastic! Congratulations       I am so delighted for you - and a natural bfp too! You must be thrilled. I can't think of anyone more deserving of a bit of good luck, you are a real inspiration


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## Tosh (Nov 21, 2007)

Hi Be Lucky 

I was following all the girls on the original Create Health Part One for months and months last year 
I saw you got the natural BFP on the over 40s board and it made me very happy for you !!
You are so lucky and my thoughts are with you - there's hope for me yet as we are the same age !!!

Tosh xx


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## lily17 (Sep 25, 2008)

Hello Everyone

I have just made an appointment for Create in May- but to be honest- Im not sure if I feel very confident about it after reading all the posts on here- the pedigree sounds a bit dodgy- I may reconsider!

Karen x


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

Hi,

just want to add a positive note about create as after a natural cycle there last month I am going there again for Mild. I reconsidered my opinion of create due to there after care following my empty folicle but have decided that their care in egg collection was excellent, their success rates are good for my age group and I feel more comfortable with there aproach. Looking at all the cases independantly, I can't see any corrilations which lead to any problems. Geeta is very dependable and well informed.

If they have been open for just a year then it may not be surprising that they have teething problems, forgive the pun. I forgive them

cwsg


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## Angels4Me (Apr 8, 2006)

Hi all

Congratulations Bernie....thats excellent news. Im 44 in July so i hope i get that luck.

Congratulations to you to Beegy

Hi cwsg

ANyone here every had immune tx whilst ttc naturally??


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Aasha

Thanks for the feedback! Sorry that you had a bad time with the clinic! I  am sure some clinics find it hard to read things that are not good about themselves.

By my signature I have tried lots of clinics! And other than LFC I would return to any one of them. I have no faith at all in LFC! But each have their own merits.

My GP also recommended ARGC and they are an absolutely excellent clinic since I did 3 cycles with them! In addition I am sure they dont have time to check FF or what people have to say and most people that attend the clinic think they are excellent! Loved them and by far the top clinic that I have been to. Their results speak for themselves!! But so far they have not made me pregnant. Will I go back... definately!!!

Create Health - I have done 2 cycles with them, they have totally different ideas to ARGC and I tried controlled natural before they had there own clinic, think it was last year august so I had to use LFC for collection and then the following month they started their own clinic and I went to the wimbledon clinic in the first month that they opened. I thought I would try the natural and low drug approach! I Like Geeta! It didnt work... but I will go back if i want to try natural treatment and I am doing that this cycle. The clinic at the time was very new and maybe now six months later it will be better... not that there was any problem just I am sure as always some teething problems are expected. I think the natural idea is a good idea and hope it works. Dont like going to wimbledon as it is really far for me!!! That was my main negative for the clinic and that they dont have figures on HFEA.

I am thinking of doing a few completely natural cycles this year after treatment at UCH, if that doesnt work, I will give the create pholosophy a big go and do 3 or 4 months of natural before I do the big drug thing again. But hopefully it wont go to that!!

UCH - I felt like trying a new clinic to get a different prespective on things they are doing spem frag tests and karotyping or something that I am waiting for and we are going to try going all out with immunes on my treatment there. So far seems like a good clinic! Still prefer ARGC at this point but it is early days so watch this space.....

LFC -  2 cycles at this clinic plus one with create health! wouldnt ever go back there! Truly feel that it was a clinic error that I had failed fertilisation as it has never been a problem. I feel like they should have owned up to it. They way overcharge on the meds. 

Dr handen in SA - Different!!! Not sure about how I felt about the clinic but was very happy that I had 4 embryos put back and didnt have to throw any away! So that was a huge bonus.


I have NEVER had a positive pee stick!!!!!!!!!!!But am determined to carry on until I do... so watch this space. This is my personal feelings on the clinics but I think overall I do chose my clinics by looking at figures on HFEA website hence my choice with ARGC and UCH! I think create has a great philosophy and I am well aware that natural treatment will pull there figures down and they will never be able to compete with ARGC and UCH who will not consider natural treatment and mild treatment. So each person needs to make up there mind based on whats out there.

My plan for this year in my quest to fall pregnant.!! As I have no tubes I cannot try naturally so I am going to try naturally with create! I do also plan to go to UCH for a treatment after my latest tests are done. After that I again intend to do absolutely natural treatment with create for around 3 or 4 months while I "take a break". After that in November or december I am thinking of going back to SA to a new clinic with Dr Ramdeo who I have done a consultation with, to do a fresh cycle and freeze all embryos!!
he thinks I have an implantation problem and is then going to build my lining up to do a frozen natural cycle with immunes.

It will be my first frozen cycle! Even though I have one frozen baby waiting at the argc!!

I wish everyone well no matter what clinic they are at!! And hope everyone falls pregnant!
Lets hope I fall pregant before I have to give anymore clinics a go!!!


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

I was on the original 'natural girls' thread over a year ago and thought I pop back in to see how things were.  I'm shocked and horrified that Create have had removed the thread.  They would have done much better to pay attention to the very legitimate complaints and frustrations that were aired there!!!!!  I see from some of your posts that things haven't improved on the communications side of things.....


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Hi bobbi,,,

I agree...

I have done lots of waiting at all clinics!! I thought it was part of the ivf process!!  

My advice... get a good book when you are doing an ivf cycle!!


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## coughsweet (Nov 21, 2006)

Hello

just came across this thread. I used to post on the old thread but also found it a bit too negative to be supportive whilst cycling there so I sympathise cwsg. I had tx at Create last year - with EC & ET at LFC and now have my son as a result    Just wanted to send some            to all of you who are cycling there now  
I think different tx approaches suit different people and the low dose stims really appealed to me to begin with. I would have probably gone on to more traditional tx if it had not worked for me though. 

I agree with the book reading - I got through loads of novels during tx  

Best wishes to all
cs xxx


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## lily17 (Sep 25, 2008)

Hello ladies

I read your posts with interest.

I am keen to get a result quickly, as I am 43 and 44 in June, so maybe Creates natural approach is not right for a quick result for me.
I know Create have a partnership with a clinic in Cyprus for donor egg treatment which is very appealing  I dont know of any other clinic with a partnership overseas.
It was nice to read Aashas feedback on other clinincs, I live outside of the London area, so its important I make the right choice as I will have to travel a long way, so reading reports good and bad about a clinic will help me make a decision.
The Lister and ARGC are obviously very popular, but the suffer from the same problems as all clinics in that it is very difficult to get someone who is 43/44 pregnant with their own egss- and donor eggs are difficult to come by in the UK which is why many older ladies opt for treatment abroad where donor eggs are easy to come by. ( i have just been to Russia for IVF  - that was an expereince!!)
Im going for the consultation at Create in May, also Nottingham Care is at the forefront/cutting edge of IVF technology in the UK as they have teamed up with a pioneering immune team from Chicargo in the USA and the northern ladies cant speak highly enough of the clinic,which is encouraging- their team is certainly a whos who in UK fertility.
decisions decisions!!

Karen x


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

Hello All,

Karen - best of luck with those decisions and your quick result    

CS - Many congratulations on the birth of your son  

I was shocked to read Aashas post - I had no idea what had happened to the original Create Ladies thread. I assumed it had just naturally come to an end as fewer people were posting. I am surprised and appalled that a clinic would have the authority to silence an online forum. But I also really feel for cwsg and did as she had her previous tx amidst the often deeply negative and disheartening comments. The primary objective of this site is support - yes, it is interesting to read others thoughts and feedback, but ultimately I think the choice of which clinic to go for must be based on ones own judgement ie collating info from many sources, visiting the clinic and speaking to the staff, reviewing results etc

Shell - After all that you have been through, I admire your determination and positive spirit. Have everything crossed for you    

Beegey x


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

I'm not going to post here and whinge about old concerns, don't worry, but like Beegey I just wanted to come and visit my old 'natural' buds to see how everyone was doing.  I just found it a bit of a shock.

Well good luck everyone, I hope it all goes well for you. I'm taking myself off elsewhere now as requested!!


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

Well said, Bobbi   x


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Hi all,

Morning bobbi and bejeey! 

Anyone doing a natural cycle at the moment? 

I am going to have a day6 scan on monday. I did controlled natural last time and the damn egg didnt fertilise! I am going completely natural if possible. But if the egg looks like it needs to be collected on a sunday then I wont object to a little cetrotide to stop it!

Karen: lots of luck! I hate it when I am undecided about the next step! As you can see I plan ahead for the whole year... and it still can change at anytime after a cycle. I hope you come to something soon and it works!  

Cwsg: where are you in the cycle at the moment?  

I am trying really hard to give up drinking coke! during this cycle trying to have a very good diet...
one that makes the babies want to hang around! It is soooo hard though!


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

I don't need to post here, I'm pregnant with twins from a fully stimmed cycle, I was just popping in after ages away to see how people were and got a bit shanghaid! Picked the wrong day to catch up it seems  

I just want to say that I have no knowledge of this battle going on, and certainly didn't participate in that.  I think Geeta is an excellent clinician and she knows her stuff.  My gripes, and they were only gripes (as you get with any clinic), were with other aspects of how the clinic was run, and in the end I voted with my feet, as is my right.  If there has been a battle royale with somebody using the board to get at Geeta personally then I would be as concerned as the rest of you - and it shows a complete lack of empathy for those cycling at the time as already mentioned.

I think that pretty much wraps it up as far as I'm concerned anyway.  I definately think there is a place for natural/mild protocols, especially for the older ladies with more fragile eggs, and Create is the place to go if that's the kind of protocol that's best for you.  Good luck all


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## Anthony Reid (Jan 1, 2002)

Expressing an opinion on FF is fine... we encourage it - but defamation is illegal and there are consequences for both the person posting the content and for FF publishing it. I will not let FF get dragged through the courts just because a member feels that they have a right to act illegally.

And anyhow, FF is about supporting each other - not slagging off particular people/consultants etc.


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## Be Lucky (Mar 22, 2008)

Yes i used 2 luv that original thread and missed it so much when it went.also thert were beegay.minty and matti and also lynn e.matti and i keep in regular touch thru p.m during the last year.had consultation and scaos at create but did not go ahead.nothing 2 do with clinic but after 3 failed ivfs in 6 mths.dh and i decided we could not take any more,finacially.physically and emotionally.we then went on de waiting list at care and had miracle natural bfp.mayb the 3 ivfs cleared sumthing or i gave up hope and relaxed.i dont know.but i will never forget that year and the 3ivfs.it was so hard.i symphatise with u ladies and other halfs goin thru it now. Take an interest in create as live down the road from it and think it good 2 hav facilities that u dont hav 2 travel in2 london for.feel like a bit of an imposter but hope this thread wont flounder.good luck 2 everyone and mayb ppl should try and get bk 2 where they r in treatment and post bout that as u need support at this difficult time and mayb moderaters help 2 keep this much needed thread on straight and narrow. Berniex


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## Tosh (Nov 21, 2007)

Thanks Bernie for reminding me of the other girls - Was Matti the lady who traveled all the way from Edinburgh ?! 
As I said, I followed all your journeys for months and it really helped with my picking Create as a Clinic I didn't post before and felt I really to reply to the negative post 
I was over the moon for you when I saw you had a natural BFP on the Over 40's board when you first posted your news 

Good Luck 

Toshx


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## ANonnyMouse (Jan 13, 2008)

Tosh  deep breath honey!

aasha - For the record I am referring to the Create Health Part 1 thread in the ivf section of FF, as that is the thread that I posted on before it got taken down. I know what you said about Geeta and Create there....and clearly, so does Tony:



Tony Reid said:


> Expressing an opinion on FF is fine... we encourage it - but *defamation* is illegal and there are consequences for both the person posting the content and for FF publishing it. I will not let FF get dragged through the courts just because a member feels that they have a right to act illegally.
> 
> And anyhow, FF is about supporting each other - not *slagging off particular people/consultants * etc.


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

At EVERY clinic there is someone who is not happy and had a bed experience!!

(My personal favourite was a lady who fell pregnant on her 1st IVF cycle and wrote a letter about a clinic after she had her daughter about her awful experience ... that godamn awful clinic!!!) 

I dont care if Create has body snatching aliens lurking in the halls!  

I am there NOW doing treatment! 
I made an informed choice and came here to chat to other ladies doing treatment at the same clinic.


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## dakota (Feb 6, 2007)

Afternoon Ladies,

As you will see i've edited some posts. Like all threads on FF this one was created so ladies going through or considering tx at create would have somewhere to seek information and support. 

Yes its ok to come on here and have a moan/rant, we all have off days and sometimes need somewhere to vent our feelings. You wont be stopped from doing that but a line has been crossed and action taken.

Lets draw a line under whats happened and let this thread grow with support and friendship for everyone at whichever place in thier journey they may be.

Good luck to everyone    
Dakota xx


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

Thanks everone for your positive spirits. This is what we all need for fertility and life in general.

Onwards and Upwards 

cwsg


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## Suzie (Jan 22, 2004)

I have removed some posts on this board so it can become a positive support thread again 

x


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

thanks suzie....I was beginning to doubt my choice with Create and yet everything about the science behind their approach makes sense to me....nice to be back to positive stuff  

I'm feeling very happy at Create...this is my 1st IVF and so far has been pretty easy going - although importing sperm was tricky but they hadn't done that before so understandable. And no issues for me as single woman, so thats been good too.

I had my second scan today and all is looking good - 10 follies going well.  I have had no real side effects from the drugs, so know that the mild route was definitely the right choice for me.  The nurses I've seen have been great.  If this cycle doesn't give me the result I want, I will feel confident going back there again. Obviously I still have to hope they find some eggs in there and that they are good quality and do their thing but so far so good...egg collection on Wednesday.

Anyone else on here in the middle of cycling?
xx


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Lulu - 10 follies sounds very good. The treatment at create is very easy on the body and this has to help!!! It is really good they have been happy to treat you as a singe person as I think some clinics dont like to. I have a friend who might also want to do the single thing as she is 36 and so it is good to know this!

cwsg - I agree!!

Bobbi - I also did a natural and then a mild treatment last time. But I am thinking for me since I have never implanted, maybe my body may not like the drugs! So this is the reason for trying without. Although I get soooo confused and then think what about doing immunes with it.... But I have heard that Geeta doesnt really like immune meds, not sure tho, cant remember if I spoke to her about it or read this... But it does go against the natural thing!!! So maybe on one of the naturals I may speak to her about it... not this one anyway.

Hi to everyone, tosh, be lucky, dakota, claire, julianne, beejeey and anyone Ive missed out.

yahoooo its the weekend!! Time to go home from work. Have a good one everyone!!


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

ooh suzie just noticed you had adopted, congratulations. I am approved and waiting for adoption from China, 3 years in and currently predicted for another 2/3/4/5 year wait!!! So hoping that it still happens.

xx


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## Suzie (Jan 22, 2004)

Lulumead  -  Crikey! You have a long wait then!   This week K's adoption order was granted  

x


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## LEECOWDEN (May 24, 2005)

Good to see the board is back on as a support mechanism. 

Babydust and best wishes to everyone - on whatever stage of your journey you are at!

Leex


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## Angels4Me (Apr 8, 2006)

Wanted to wish you lots of luck getting pg


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

Hi Bobbi and Lulumead,

i am waiting to start my second Ivf at create when AF comes, about 10 days. Doing mild this time, natural last time.

Hi Angels, hope your well

cwsg


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## Kellois (Jan 28, 2009)

Hello again Create ladies!

I could really do with some support here. Went back to Geeta for a follow up consultation (mild antagonist, two follies, EC but both empty, offered IUI just in case). We now completely get why IUI was offered and happy for anyone to pm me for the full low down. 

But, but, but, Geeta dropped a real bombshell by telling us that I'm not in a situation where even mild stimulation is possible as I'm not responding. She said my ovaries are struggling (not to be overly critical on this now more postive board, but I wish she hadn't mentioned the 'menopause' word). She said only options for us are natural or egg donation. We are both absolutely stunned, disappointed, defeated, flattened. Haven't cried so much in ages. The thing is, whilst we are both very happy with and are real advocates of the natural route, I know my ovaries don't recruit and mature follicles on their own (or at least haven't in the past). I've had clomid with patchy/no response, I've now had a short protocol and developed a big cyst and an antagonist protocol which produced empty follies. My FSH is fluctuating too. 

Anyone been here? Know any stories that can help support? Any miracle natural ivf stories, lowering FSH stories? 

Thanks in advance ladies, I really need your help,   
K


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

big      kelios.
x


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

Hi kellios,

so sorry to hear your having a hard time. I'm sorry but i dont have any info on this but I'm sure others have. All I know is that natural doesnt add to problems with low responding ovaries. Therefore doesn't speed up decline of egg production according to Geeta.
It is a hard thing to hear, but at least you know where you stand and it doesnt mean it's not going to happen.

best of luck


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## Be Lucky (Mar 22, 2008)

Kelois.remember i emailed u re my flucuating fsh and my natural bfp.i remember been told i had 1 2 2% chance of success with oe ivf and feelin absoutly heartbroken.i really do understand and feel ur pain.what age ru kellois?sure the ladies will helpu here with methods 2 help lower the fsh.it hard 2 get ur head round de but then i got pg naturally while on waiting list.we had given up hope.but re de i said 2 my dh even if this baby had been de it still wld hav felt like my  baby as pregnancy symptoms r pregnancy symptoms.dont know if i hav been any help or not.luv 2u berniex


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Hello everyone!!

Kelois, hope you are feeling better! 

Had a scan today, there was a cyst, but all okay another scan on wednesday am.


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

shell: hope all goes well on your Wednesday scan.

I had my final scan this morning, all looking good and am having egg collection on Wednesday morning, so only the HCG trigger injection to do tonight...am looking forward to no more jabs although they have been totally fine, so can't complain really.

xx


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

hi bobbi,

how much agnus castis and which form of wheatgrass did you take. I've been taken one agnus castis a day, although on the box it says to take three a day. I've never tried wheat grass.

good luck lulumead and Shell

i'm now on day 21 of non treatment cycle, so now in luteal phase before starting mild treatment. Have the usual aprehension and just trying to keep chilled out this time. Also about the money and all the other work i've got on.

cwsg


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Hello Everyone!!

Lulu - have a happy drug free day relaxing and good luck for tomorrow!!

Bobbi - what does agnus castus and wheatgrass do? Should I also be on this!!! maybe I should try that for a few months...

cwsg - just another week or so to go before you start! I am also feeling apprehensive...

I just wonder whether I should go ahead this month with a cyst or wait till a month without? I will decide tomorrow after the scan. Just dont know! Prof Cambell didnt seem to think the cyst was a problem. If it was a medicated cycle Id want them to drain it, but not sure on a natural cycle! I certainly wouldnt have it drained as it will probably go away, just not sure if it is then the right cycle for a natural or to wait till its gone. mmmm not sure. What are your thoughts. I know I will decide tomorrow after the scan. Lets hope it has already gone by then.

SIL is pregnant! They got married end of last year! Very excited for them but just wish it would happen to me..


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

thanks!  Its definitely nice having a drug free day  

can't help re:cyst sorry...but I'm sure Prof will guide you as to the best option but fingers crossed it has gone of own accord and you don't have that dilemma.

hello - other create ladies.
xx


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

Hi,


thanks bobbi for the info. I have been running to the loo, now i'm thinking it may be the agnus castus.

Shell, I had a cyst last winter, i was due for IUI and it was delayed to improve chances. It maybe different for IVF.

cwsg


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

heello,

Well we have decided to abandon the cycle as the cyst was still there and so onto the next...

Have to make an appointment with UCH to see what my latest test results bring. Will then decide whether to do next cycle with UCH or if I need to wait another month then I will do the natural cycle with create while I am waiting.

Ug... the wheatgrass juice cocktail that I bought gives me a shiver going down my body when I think of it! But it is all for a good cause. No my FSH is not above 10 yet but might as well start with all the prevention before it heads that way ... as I suppose is will come in time. So was thinking prevention is better that a cure! I have my agnus castus on my desk and have done my drops!

Lulu... waiting to hear how egg collection went... thinking of you!!


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

Hi Shell

Sorry to hear that you have abandoned this cycle but sounds like you have a good plan of action  

Egg collection was fine, everyone very lovely.  Got 7 eggs so am pleased but until I know whether they have fertilised not sure that numbers matter!  Had to hang around to check that my donor sperm had defrosted ok - it did, so just waiting now to see whether any action takes place overnight.  And of course have the joy tonight of starting the progesterone pessaries  

hope everyone else on here is doing ok.
x


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Lulu... 7 eggs is a good catch...
It is a tense time waiting for the call to see if they have fertilised!
I have a very good feeling for you!

Will be waiting for news!


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Good luck lulu  

Oh those pessaries, I hated them!  All in a good cause though.


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

wow lulu, that's alot of eggs! It looks like you have a good chance 

Shell, i heard that you only take agnus castus at the first part of your cycle.
You sound ok about cancelling the cyle.

cwsg


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

thanks...I'll let you know if they do their thing or not. Trying not to be too optimistic, we all know it can fail at any point but trying to think positively. 7 is good, so if nothing else at least I know I can produce eggs  
xx


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

On a mild protocol that's amazing!


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Cwsg and bobbi... well I was a bit upset at having to pay the hfea fee!!! Over one hundred pounds for 2 scans!!  
Not fond of the HFEA myself. I have written to them on numerous occasions to ask to put back 3 embryos since I am hardly at risk of a twin pregnancy with so many failed cycles!! And I am paying for all this treatment myself. 

Their last answer really made me mad.... Something like 90% of twin pregnancies occurr in women under 40!! Are they kidding!
Since 90% of all pregnancies occurr in women under 40 wouldnt that be a given!! Are they truly using that as a reason for me?

They did say that I should get my doc to approach them with reasons and since I have no specific doctor, I want to apply to them myself. What IVF doctor has the time to go to an appeal at the HFEA or what ever! But no they didnt even consider my case.

Surely after 6 or 7 failed cycles without a positive this rule should change to give women battling with IVF a better chance!!

Oh well that is my rant!!!

yes I am fine about abandoning the cycle. I am in a quandry though.... Not sure what to do next!! I called UCH about my test results yesturday and mine were back and all was fine and my husbands sperm frag test was fine but they have to redo my husbands karotype as it didnt develop or something! So that is another 4 weeks wait now!! So not sure if  should do my follow up at argc and have a quick cycle there next or just do a natural next at create and carry on waiting for UCH.

Lulu... goodluck for the call today!!!!  
Bobbi, squinted and took the wheatgrass again....  

now a bit unsure what to do with the agnuscastus but took it anyway!


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

shell that is so frustrating...HFEA is definitely not patient focussed!

The 7 are down to 3!  3 fertilised so looking at transfer on saturday, just hope there is at least one that is good quality....started off being very positive about this, but at each stage it gets more nerve-wracking!!  Trying to keep positive and repeating the "it only takes one" mantra!!!

xx


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Lulu, ...fingers crossed. In South Africa on my last cycle I also got 7 eggs and 4 fertilised and they all made it to day 3 transfer! So I will be   for your embies. But it only takes one!! There is a lady Fran on the argc thread who on her 1st treatment only got one to go back and she was pregnant with that one! (and had a baby)and then she went again on my last cycle at argc and she got 3 embies, 2 went back and she again is pregnant! So yes it only takes one!!!


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

thanks shell -always good to hear positive stories.x


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Oh and VERY good news!!! Create just phoned and said they managed to get my fee back from the HFEA!!
Or they hadnt sent it yet or something!!! 
So after all that ranting about my hundred pounds for 2 scans...!!

Sorry to put you all through that!! 

So now yes! I am absolutely fine with abandoning my cycle! 

cwsg and bobbi ...


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

maybe create atracts independant minded women, maybe thats why the thread are much more challanging than the other clinics threads, just an idea I have been having. What do you think?

cwsg


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

Ooh, I like that idea cw  

Congratulations on your eggs Lulu! Three is more than enough - quality not quantity remember! Did they mention any gradings for the embies? I guess sometimes maybe it is better not to obsess over gradings though...Good luck for Saturday!

Hope all ladies well,

Beegey xx


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

hey beegey,

how is the pregnancy going?


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

Hi Shell,

Pregnancy going well, thanks   Still got eight weeks to go...
Good for you for getting your Hfea fee too!

Beegs xx


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

glad to hear all going well Beegey.

I assume I'll get gradings tomorrow once they know how they are doing...only told today how many had fertilised.

Good news on the HFEA refund.
x


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

cwsg... you made me laugh with that independantly minded women!!!  

especially when you here my latest method of trying to decide what to do next.... 


I tried at create and the cycle has been abandoned... so I called UCH and there was a mix up with the tests, so my wait is for another 4 whole weeks!!... so after lots and lots of thought... I think that someone up there or out there is saying something....
So I decided I would call the ARGC and book a follow-up and if I get a date in the next two weeks I go with my next cycle at ARGC... considering you usually have a little wait for the follow-up and if I dont.... then we go back to Create for a natural! (We start at the top of the list again!!!)   

Is it destiny!!!? that each of these things is happenning!!

So I called ARGC and they gave me an appointment for the 14th May 2009. So it looks like I am going back there for the next cycle.

I will most likely do a natural cycle again at Create sometime after that. Please let this one work!!!!!!I am thinking of doing PGD, assisted hatching and maybe IVIG!!!! throw everything at me this time!!!

Lulu.... thinking of you!! 

Bobbi....  that you will have more embies next cycle! When is your next cycle due to start? Will you and CWSG be cycling together?


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

hi all

the 3 are still going, but I don't think they sound very good grades - two grades 3 one of 3 cells and one of 4, and then the third one was 1 cell this morning but apparently is making signs of dividing. I tried to push them about them but they just said they were average quality!

Anyway transfer tomorrow at 12.  Have to say not feeling very positive of it working now.
xx


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Lulu

3 and 4 cells is excellent!!!! The most that you really get at this stage is 4 cells!
So these are top quality...Your other one maybe a late starter and could surprise you and catch up tomorrow.  

That is very good news!!!


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Lulu,

I am not sure why you are concerned! This really is very good!!

( I dont know what grade3 is )

But I would be very happy with 3 and 4 cells, and by transfer tomorrow they will have grown more. This is good!!!


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

thanks for reassurance...they basically grade 1 to 4 with 1 being best quality and 4 being worse, so they are down the bottom end!

oh well, just have to wait and see.

co-ordinating 3 clinics shell, is pretty impressive.  
xx


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

hey bobbi!!


I have a friend who has just been diagnosed with blocked tubes and she is waiting for an appointment, I think at HH. She is also going on the NHS so I am really glad that is isnt too long a wait. When on the NHS how do they chose your clinic?  

I have just started larfing at that question as I was reading it back!!!!    

Probably not the same as I did    

I am so glad that you are happy with them.... as I have never known anyone going with NHS and in my mind thought it would be a lot of waiting?? How long is the list?? or do you have any idea how long before next cycle?

How many cycles do you get??

Sorry about all the questions....


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Oh Lulu,

I have never really asked about grades before.... 
        

I will say a big prayer for your embies tonight!
But dont dispair, all is not what it seems and you can never know what will happen.
I agree with bobbi on this ... Embies of all grades, shapes and sizes make good babies!


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Bobbi, are your tubes hydrasalpinx? or just blocked?

Have you asked?

Are they both blocked?

Do you know what caused them to be blocked?

I had a massive cycst removed 11cm by 11cm when I was 28yrs. Not laproscopy but proper as i dont think they could drain. But few years later got PID from the IUD I think! It was very bad the PID was in hospital for 3 weeks. Not sure which caused the hyrdos. my first doc only mentioned blocked tubes... but on my IVF cycles they noticed fluid and recommended I remove the tubes. So after 2 cycles i did...


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

And also sometimes they can just spasm when they are looking and then they are not blocked at all!! Did you have a lap last time or an HSG!  Well lets hope you dont even get to the lap! and the next cycle is the one!!

I think IUDs often cause problems, loved mine when it was there as it was low maintenance  but I think for me permanent birth control!!


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

mine spasm'd during a hycosy, so I have no idea if actually blocked or not! so just moved onto IVF...x


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## LEECOWDEN (May 24, 2005)

just having a catch up on the thread - best of luck for tomorrow lulumead, I still remember my embryo transfer, I was afraid to stand up in case they fell out - wish they would have wheeled me out on a trolley. And then the 2ww, well what can we say, take it easy and lots of positive vibes


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Lee   

you joke about that! When i had ET in South Africa, as usual I filled up my bladder so the EC went smooth. It was a bit full and I was dying to go after the ET. The doc said to me ....
No standing for 2 hours, they lay you in a bed that is raised at the bottom after.

I told him that was fine but only after I go to pee!!!
No problem he said he would rather put a catheta    So he proceeded to put a catheta to drain the bladder because he didnt want me to get up and pee!!!!   

((It was a first!!! ))

So that no one gets alarmed, this has NEVER happened at an ET in the UK!!!

I was still a bit dying afterwards but had pee police all around me!!!


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

hi bobbi - i think so, they told me they had gone in spasm and I could feel them cramping like mad...was all very uncomfortable. Obviously I googled it afterwards and I think it can happen a fair bit and doesn't necessarily mean tubes are blocked...I just couldn't face having it done again, although they could have done it under sedation.

getting the water consumption right for transfer is a tricky one...I'm sure I'll be desperate for a wee straight away!
xx


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Lulu, At all my ET's I have just gone and had a wee after! 

Good luck for tomorrow, will be thinking about you  and lots of rest after!!


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

ta - just done the housework so don't have that to do over the weekend!
x


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

thanks for all your support on here ladies, ET went very smoothly - despite really needing to pee - and I now have a grade 2 - 6 cell and grade 2/3 - 9 cell on board...so they perked up a bit which was good.

interestingly no spasms at all yet when I had IUI's I found it really cramping so now I thinking that my tubes could have spasmed then too...hmmmm....guess we will never know.

Going to buy some nice food now and then lie down for the rest of the day.

xx


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

Great news Lulu! Hope they are getting ready to snuggle     
Did Geeta do your transfer, out of interest? xx


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

no, lovely dr called Lakshmi...everyone there is very lovely.
xx


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

To those who had or are having mild ivf.

just wondering what measurements of drugs you had for mild ivf at create. I'm having suprecur and gonal f. I think it's 0.5 ml of each. Did you have burserin or suprecur?

cwsg


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

hi

I did 150iui of gonal F from day 2 of cycle til day 10...then from day 6 also did cetrotide injection.

Hope that helps...good luck have you started your treatment?  

xx


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

cwsg... I cannot remember how much suprecur... but I was on 150iu of puregon, it is the same as gonalf.


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

thanks lulumead

no luckily dont need to start drugs yet as period not arrived, just a long pmt experience. so will confirm amounts tommorrow with clinic. Sounds like you had a different selection of drugs, similar too my natural cycle, except I only had two days of gonal f and cetrotide.

cwsg


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## Angels4Me (Apr 8, 2006)

Hi all

Noticed this thread is picking up again. 

Im still driving myself mad about what to do next. Had some immune tests and tx will be ivig and intralipids but am petrified about all the drugs and having a blood product. i may look into less aggressive tx with steroids although not sure where.

Will pop in to keep up with you...im on immune thread too

angels


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

angels    what is ivig and intralipids


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## Angels4Me (Apr 8, 2006)

pioneering tx for ivf /implantation failure, miscarriage etc.  See immune thread, so involved but appears v. successful from what i can see.  The book "Is your body Baby friendly" explains it all


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

oh well. my period came this morning, so it looks like more ivf for me starting with the drugs tommorow. Phoned Create once again today and spoke to Freda who told me that I should have had an induction and didnt undestand why one wasnt booked for me. I only didnt undestand why not, but thought they may have seen that i had a telephone one last time on Natural ivf. 
So  wrote I typed the diections as she spoke. 0.5ml of buserolin day two, then added gonal F day 3 measurement 225ml. I still dont feel secure about the gonal f measuement as it seems very high. 
I have been told the mesurements three times now. The fist time by Erica and I really wasnt listening as she said she would send me a list by post. The second time by Geeta where I really thought she said 0.5ml of gonal F? At this point I asked my partner to take over as i felt too spaced out to concentate. Unfotunately they didnt get back to him yesterday, so I had to do it again, which brings me to this point.

Create,,,,, please send me an email of it.

I feel that I am doing their heads in so dare not ask again. But I dont want to OD.

anyone else felt the fear of drugs sends them sti crazy

cwsg


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## Louise68 (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi cwsg,

I think an induction would have been useful as mild IVF is slightly more involved than natural.  But don´t worry about the dose - if they´ve said 225 Gonal F it will be based on what they think is necessary to produce a reasonable number of follicles in your particular case.  But if you´re unsure just ring Freda again and don´t feel bad about it - don´t forget we´re paying quite a lot of money for this and they´re there to help us!

Good luck!

Louise


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

cwsg   

If you havent had an induction before then you will prob need one.
However they do send out mixed messgaes, when I called about coming in for this natural cycle... I said to the nurse that I had treatment in Sept09 and wanted to do a natural cycle again, and what must I do for that.... she said just call on the 1st day of your cycle and make an appointment for 5th day. I sent them an email to confirm the conversation as I would hate a muddle up later.  And when I went in they said...ooooh you havent had a follow up!
I would have been fine doing one just no one informed me!!

If you are unsure that you have taken down the information just send an email confirming the conversation and if there is anything incorrect can they get back to you.

cwsg, Is this your first drug cycle?

I was on 150iu on my mild cycle at Create and I when I am at ARGC on the high doses that they do I am usually on 300iu, so there really isnt much in it between 225 and 300?? But I also think it depends on your body...mmmmmmmmm im not sure!!

But then I dont really have any side effects from the drugs so I am really lucky.

Lots of luck and hope it goes well!!


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

Thanks Louise, Bobi and Shell,

its really nice having a goup to bounce off. My partner has taken over correspondence with them, he phoned them today and awaits their reply.
At least I feel ok with taking the dose of burseolin that starts this evening, so I have another day to reconfirm the gonal F dose.

I over stimulated about three yeas ago on gonal f producing over 20 follies in IUI and was really upset by the dangers of heart attack and stroke on the menu if they have continued. So my caution is only healthy really. I need to feel satisfied that they know what they are doing. I do worry about the drugs and this is why I think I phase out when they have explained them to me. It just feels so unnatural and inside I am protesting about taking them.

Shell, how long before they get back to you by email?

thanks again for all you cyber kisses   

cwsg


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## Angels4Me (Apr 8, 2006)

hi cwsg

I had 150 gonal F, so im assuming they are uping yours slightly to make sure you get enough eggs, still lower dose than conventional route - my opinion....im not expert etc. But i think its good that your hubby asks create to go through it bit by bit again to put your minds at rest. I had the same dose of berserelin as you.

wish you success this time  

Im still driving myself insane trying to make a decision. Just got a reply to my email from Doc in Greece, saying if its my last go, I should try donor egg as i cant expect much at age 43, (44 in July)! I know this is true so has put me on a downer....we havnt seriously considered donor egg. I seriously need some help deciding


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

hi angels,

that is an odd reply from the doctor not knowing you body. It didnt sound like this to me from you response in you mild ivf cycle. Didnt create say that you were very fertile fo you age due to the chinese herbs.

We had a few moments of confusion tonight on administering the fist dose of berserolin. the syringe said it was 1ml size and we were suposed to have 0.5ml dose, but there were suposed to be 11 doses in one vile? First my partner half filled the syringe and i said wait, I'm going to check the internet as i'm sure Freda said that there were supposed to be lots of doses in one bottle. luckily i found a site of leicester fertility clinc explaining the 11 doses in one vile. So we decided to put the 0,05 dose on the syinge! Whats with these confusing measuements!!!?
It must be right this way. We hope 

My partner spoke again to Geeta, who told him the measuements, and I was right with the 225ml of gonal f. Yes, they are reponding to my empty follicle probably.

cwsg


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

cwsg, cant remember how long it took for them to reply... I just sent the email confirming the conversation with the nurse. I was really worried I would call on day1 and they would say that they didnt have any knowledge of my doing the cycle!

They did reply but I think it was a few days later.... sorry!... unsure!

Do you remember what amount of drugs you were on when you over stimmed before or is that a silly question, if you did remember then you wouldnt need to worry now!!

I have kept a diary on each cycle since the 3rd cycle of what drugs I took on what days ect. So i can compare if necessary. I think I also had a problem remembering what I had been on and was sooo frustrated that I started recording it....


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

Shell, 
I recommend that you ask them now if you need an induction as they made a bad mistake not telling me in time, which has caused us to take the wong dose last night. Aparently it should be ok if we start the right dose tonight

cwsg


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## Angels4Me (Apr 8, 2006)

Hi Bobbi

Good to hear from you.

Im considering Lister, create and poss ttc naturally with immune tx. im 43 so even with donor egg dont think i would wait too long. i want to try with my own eggs at the moment.

When i had my first tx at Create, i did not know much about immune issues but i remember them saying they do not do tx for. although i would imagine i could do alongside. When i saw Geeta last month, she suggested natural ivf.....which i may do at some stage.  Slightly cheaper but only one egg....of course.

Re your questions: I had Gonal F at Create but dont know if they use menopur. I was prescribed buserilin
and i was only told to take aspirin after ET. Prof campbell did not do my EC. Hope that helps....i only had the one ivf at Create

angels


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

Hi Bobbi and all other Create ladies  

Bobbi - for my tx I was on gonal f (112.5) and cetrotide. Geeta initially suggested bursulin for me but I objected as I didn't want to down regulate fully so they adjusted my protocol. I like to think that they wouldn't use any drugs 'routinely' as such but would moderate doses to suit each lady. I got on very well with all of my drugs, and because with mild ivf it is a shorter protocol, it was actually only about 9 days of stimming  

Prof didn't do my ec - I think it was dr Irfana being assisted by two nurses and an amazing anaethenitist (sp!). Geeta was hovering from time to time. I think Prof Campbell is the sonography expert, doesn't usually partake in the surgical procedures as far as I am aware. Geeta did my transfer which I was pleased about.

Hope that helps!

Beegey xx


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

hoi bobbi and other creaters

yes, drug regime underway now. I took 0.5 mls of buseelin and sraight after 125ml of gonal f.
I felt to tired today that when i finished work at 4 i had to go to bed and slept till 9pm. atm i've given up on thinking about what i'm going to do for two immenent projects and cant cope. All i was doing was worrying but nothing constructive the last few days.

bobbi, i had cetrotide for natural ivf, but took just three days and three of gonal f. This time buserelin, mine is suprecur but i think its just a different make from others who have taken burserelin.

beegey, i'm interested in why you didnt want downregulation, also how you communicated this to them. I need them to asure me that they have taken into account my overstimulation over gonal f in the past. i had over 20 folicles just on one ovary a many on the other too. But this was in iui, so they had to abandon the cycle, about 1.5 years ago.

I really hope Geeta is going to be part of my treatment this time.

best wishes all

Cwsg


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## Louise68 (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi,

cwsg - how are you feeling after a few days into the injections?  I remember feeling a bit dizzy at the beginning and was told it was down to the Buserelin.  But I was fine again after a few days.  Hope it's all going okay.

Bobbi, in my experience at Create they have always prescribed me Gonal F for stimulating. 

For mild IVF they seem to have two different methods as far as I can make out:
1) Buserelin (0.5ml) + Gonal F (dose varies) from Day 2/ Day 3 respectively and 
2) Gonal F from early in cycle + Cetrotide later on to prevent ovulation as in a controlled natural cycle. 

I've always been put on the Buserelin + Gonal F method for mild IVF. 

I don't have a clue what the difference is but there's a question about Cetrotide and Buserelin in the Ask a Pharmacist section and it says they do pretty much the same thing.  But why one and not the other I don't know.  Certainly on Create's website mild IVF is described as using Gonal F and Cetrotide ().

All the best to everyone,
Louise


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

Hi 

Louise,

I'm feeling ok now on day 4 of drugs. Had accupuncture yesterday which really brought my 'conception vessel' into life. I could feel so much going on.

need to go

cwsg


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

CW - Glad to hear your cycle is going well so far  

The reason I didn't want to down regulate is the entire reason why I chose Create over other clinics with better results in the first place. I wanted a more natural cycle and as I am young and have a polycystic ovary, I knew it was likely I had lots of eggs. Personally, I never liked the idea of shutting down my ovaries, which is essentially what down regulation does, particularly when I didnt see the need for it. What I wanted (and eventually got) was more of a mild coaxing with gonal f to mature a couple more follicles than I normally have on a natural cycle. The cetrotide prevented me from ovulating early and releasing the eggs before there was a chance to catch the at ec, but didn't shut down my ovaries.

At our induction, we were explained our protocol which Geeta had apparently set us and it included two weeks of down regging with buresulin, much to my surprise and horror. I had asked Geeta many times before about this and she had insisted on 'no down regulation' in her method of IVF. Anyway, being the cool, gathered patient that I was (!) I immediately burst into tears and demanded to know why I had been set this protocol which I absolutely did not want and it was promptly adjusted  . I was never going to put my body through a process I didn't believe was right for me. Remember that Create try to prioritise the woman's health - this was very important to me. As I said before, I could have had a down regulation cycle at any clinic and produced a load of eggs and maybe even some frosties, but we had to weigh up the decision and ultimately, I trusted Geeta and her approach and have never regretted it.

Phew, sorry to bore you with all that. Why use 10 words when you can use 100?!

Beegey xx


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

thanks beegey, this is really helpfull.
i'm a bit of a drama queen when it comes to treatment so can fully understand. i also chose create for the same reasons, although i'm not young, i also have lots of eggs.
She explained to me this main differnce to conventional ivf, not the two weeks down regging. But this was because of my age. It was a difficult decision to choose mild over conventional, knowing that my resources, money was limited and this maybe my last try.

cwsg x


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

hello ladies... sorry have been a bit absent. Hope all ok with everyone here.

CWSG; hope drugs are going ok. when's your first scan?

Looks like I have a chemical pregnancy or ectoptic (yikes, really hope isn't that).  Had blood test today and my HCG was only 10, so have to go on Thursday to see what it is doing...if doubled thats good, if the same then probably ectopic and if failing then they failed to stick about after implantation. Which is what I suspect as good positive tests on sunday and monday but not today.

take care all.
xx


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Lulu, I'm sorry to hear that  

When I went to Reprofit in Czech I also stipulated that I wanted the short protocol and absolutely no down-regging, which I got as they seem to do that as standard over there.  I was on 275 of Gonal F and actually didn't find stimming difficult at all.  I was expecting to be a total hormonal nightmare, but it was fine.  So stick to your guns if you have a strong feeling about your protocol.  Unless there is a good clinical reason why you can't have what you want (and Geega won't be backward about coming forward on that score!) then your wishes should be acknowledged.  It's YOUR body, use your instincts.

I found the hardest bit of cycling was the progesterone support after EC.  It wasn't pleasant and DID turn me into a bloated hormonal monster, but at Reprofit they see it as essential for 12 weeks post collection.  Not many UK clinics stipulate this and I wonder why?


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Lulu, sorry to hear and hoping that the bloods will double!!   

cwsg.. thinking about you and hoping everything is going well with the cycle. Have you had a scan yet? How are the follys looking?? 

Bobbi... a big hello!!

Been so busy have hardly had a moment! Have my follow-up at ARGC tomorrow and then will decide at last about what to do next. Am on day 22 of cycle so maybe will start in the next week or so! If they are on the same page as me ... and of course if my bloods are okay.

Been really good with the diet for the last 2 weeks trying to prepare and eat very natural foods and no preservatives... so a little pleased with myself about that!



cwsg said:


> my 'conception vessel' into life.


This really amused me cwsg... how is the conception vessle going?? Maybe I need a bit of acupuncture as clealy there is a problem with my conception vessle!!!!!!!!!!!!   

((Welll I did try once and hated it!!! I could sooo feel those things in my wrists and I was not relaxed. I went on the day of transfer for the first time and was suposed to go back after ET but didnt!!)) Keep thinking that maybe I should give it another go and start looonnng before ET so I know what to expect.... In fact think I will call them now and make an appointment.


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## looby_520 (Aug 20, 2007)

Hi everyone,

I hope you don't mind me posting on here this thread.  I'm currently looking into what/where/when we will have our next treatment and Mild IVF is something which has been recommended to me by our last consultant (who is in Czech Rep. by the way).  I've heard such differing viewpoints on it which is making it difficult to decide if it's for us or not.  I'm also looking into the ARGC and considering going back to Reprofit (Czech), so really do not know which way to turn at the mo.

Shell - Hope you don't mind me asking but as I see you've had treatments at both ARGC and Create I am really interested to know what your overall experience was of each clinic, the staff, appointments etc?  I realise their methods of tx are v. different.  ARGC full on and Create, less drugs etc.  

Bobbi - Hi  

Looby
xxx


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

p.s. I have been folowing the over 40's thread and there is a really sad negative view being given over about Create, shame.


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

bobbi,
well this is news to me, I didn't know that other clinics did mild ivf apart from one up north somewhere.

cwsg


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

cwsg - I phoned holly house/ herts and essex and they dont do it, I called UCH and they wont do it and ARGC definately wont do it! But LFC does do it-they charge the same price as normal IVF so it is MUCH cheaper at Create!!... actually maybe when I called herts and essex and UCH I was discussing Natural IVF....  Now I cannot remember !! But LFC definately does mild and natural!

Bobbi - I also think I am a bit resistant and have to rethink acupuncture and give it another go!!

Looby - As far as admin goes I think ARGC is better than Create, I think they are more organised. They have to be as they have loads of people doing treatment at the same time. Create on more than once I have left messages and no one has got back to me etc.
But different people have different experiences and some people think ARGC is very unorganised.

I have nearly always attended create at harley street and there has never been more than one or 2 ladies in the waiting room and very peaceful and quiet. The staff seem fine but havent been there enough to have anyone really stand out! You only go a few times before EC and the cycle is over!

The ARGC is manic VERY organised chaos and I have been there many many times, love all the staff. It is unfair to compare to Create as I have spent LOTS and LOTS of time there and am very familiar and familiar is always good. Yes some days you wait but Id rather wait than they turned me away due to too many ladies cycling at once but most of the time I have been very lucky and have been in and out!

When I have completed a cycle at Create, I hardly felt like Id done a cycle at all! All quiet and calm.

After a cycle at ARGC ... you definately feel it, it is hard work in every way!! The drugs and injections before and after EC, the bloods, daily trips to the clinic, some days twice a day to the clinic. Both my arms were brused all over from bloods, my tummy is one big bruise from injections.

I will go back to both clinics!! 

I think Mr T is a miracle maker and he is nearly always at that clinic, I dont think he ever goes home. You may never see him but he gives all the instructions at the clinic and looks at EVERY patients file everyday!! Out of the 3 treatments that I have done he personally was there doing my hystroscope, 2 X EC and 2XET! I cannot describe the feeling of happiness when the man who is known to be the best in the country does your ET!! 

Gheeta, I have only met a few times and I like her, I admire her trying to fight for natural IVF and the health of womens bodies and there is a lot to say for this!! I have only had one EC and ET there, it was the only time I was down in Wimbledon. Gheeta didnt do the EC or ET, hadnt ever met the persons doing EC and ET before. I only read recently that you can pay extra to have Gheeta do the ET... I think??

(I live in North London, so the travel down there is a killer for me)

It just depends on what way you decide you want to do... natural and all zen or running a mile in killer heels!! Im not fussy whoever gets me a baby and I will try them all till I get there!!


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

it is really helpfull to hear your experiences Shell and Bobi,

It's news to me that you can pay extra to have geeta do your ET, what about EC. Also, can you ask to have an appointment when she is in.
She was in India when I have my EC with ne egg.
I emailed the clinic today about the cervical mucus but havent had a reply yet, a hope that this is because it's ok.

I dont get the way that clinics are that different in cost cos when I have looked at the website ARGC is the same amount for IVF, is this because it is without the many blood tests? Cant remember how much LFC were. I think in the end Geeta ideas one me over, where as the other clinics didnt seem to have philosophy's.

cwsg


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

although, like you Shell, I havent been treated by Geeta. It's just about EC and ET, and I guess this is the same everywhere.


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

cwsg - I think I read it on the website about paying I think £150 extra for ET. Dont think it mentioned EC. No One told me, I know that so I must have read it.... just been on their website and it is the first line. It says if she is available and nothing about EC.

A cycle at ARGC including all drugs cost me about £6000 on one cycle and £8000 on the other 2 cycles, I think! But this is blood tests once or twice a day at £60 or £90 a go. I think my cycle is usually cheaper than some because I am ready on day 10 to day 12 of treatment and some ladies can be still there on day 18. I usually have IVF so this is cheaper than ICSI. I usually also have immune bloods for £300 on a cycle. And I am on 300IU which is a low dose, some ladies are on 450 or higher!

But I will say that at ARGC to have a cyst removed before treatment they charged around £300 and LFC charged me £800!!!

Cervical mucus is a good sign, I thought anyway ... I always get a lot at ovulation even during treatment??


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

cervical mucus on day 6! is this a good sign so early?


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## Louise68 (Oct 26, 2007)

Cwsg - I remember from when I was injecting in my last treatment that I got a lot more cervical mucus than normal.  I tend to obsessively write everything down to refer back to if necessary and I noted that from Day 4 onwards of injecting (Day 5 of cycle) I had fertile quality mucus.  It seems that the whole process is speeded up as on both occasions that I have done Mild IVF I had EC on Day 12 of treatment (Day 13 of cycle).  And normally I would ovulate around Day 18, often later but rarely earlier.  

Shell, I was really interested to read your post re differences between ARGC and Create - obviously two very different approaches that both have their own successes.  It´s almost a hands-on approach versus a hands-off approach and it´s great that clinics offer different things so that we can choose what suits us as individuals.

The thing about paying extra for Geeta to do ET must be new.  When i did my last tx in Oct 08 she did mine but there was no extra charge then.  All the doctors who do EC and the sedation etc seemed extremely competent to me and i wouldn´t necessarily request that Geeta does my ET in future, although it´s nice if she does. 

Louise


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

morning bobbi   

cwsg... what day are you on now?

Louise... oh I so agree, keep trying out different things till it works and I am so glad they are all there for us ladies trying to have a baby! 

I have my appointment soon.... at 13h30.....so watch this space!


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

thanks for your info on cervical mucus, i'll relax about it now. Lucky I can find out here as the clinic havent got back to me.

hope your appointment goes well Shell.

I'm knackered today, am taking a break from work as so much to do to prepare staff for going away. A few people I have told have been wishing me luck, which has been really nice.
Gulp, it's really happening, this time next week i may have had EC already, It's all so quick at Create, very hands off, your right.
I may ask for Geeta for my ET, I'll speak to them tommorow when I'm their.
We are leaving about 7am to get there for 12 midday. Parking at Hammersmith and getting the tube into regents prk. It should take 4 hours to get to the edge of London from here, and 40 mins to Harlet st from Hammersmith. It does seem a bit fine, so may leave at 6.30am instead. I'm getting nervous about getting there on time now. I tend to write more when I'm exited.
It's an odd place to be getting so close that i must onlt think it's going to work. Giving up wondering where the money's coming from or whether i've made the right choice of clinic.

cwsg


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

create have got back to me...yeh... by email, and Freda says that it's perfectly normal, the cervical mucus thing.


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Cwsg... all sounds very exciting, but the travel sounds real bad!! Where do you live!!! 
I then have a cheek to complain about travelling from North London to Wimbledon!!
If I was in your situation and had a problem with OHSS then I too would chose create as this would seem to make perfect sense!! 
I will be     for you and that it works!!

Hi Bobby!!!  and for all nosy people!!!

I had a wonderful follow up. The doc... didnt know his name... and that is a pity... but he went out of his way for me. I really liked him!!! He just called me too!! We spoke about everything and have decided to go for a hysteroscope as soon as AF arrives and give the "conception vessell" a good clean out!! 

Then we will proceed with Flare Protocol or SP in my language!! We maybe going all out with immunes this cycle even though my bloodwork hasnt shown up much with regards to immune problems... we are thinking to try this!

Spoke about PGD and he didnt advise and assisted hatching and he said if they noticed a thick shell they would consider otherwise they wont do it.

I requested that they apply in my case to the HFEA for me to put back 3 embryos and he was very helpful with that!! But doubtful of getting a go ahead from them... But he still is going to try!

Feel like a new women!!!    with fresh hope! I felt like he took a real interest in my case, he then called and said he discussed my case with Gafur the other doc there that I really like and he had the same feelings as my sweet nameless doctor!!

So now we just wait for AF, expecting on the weekend on monday at latest!!


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

shell, sounds like a positive experience

i live in Wales near Swansea

cwsg


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Hi Everyone,

        

Well started AF today and had to go in for bloods. Have been holding my breath all day waiting for the call....................
...........whenever I have day 1-3 bloods and they measure my FSH I get so worried waiting for the call.
It was the lowest it has been on any cycle they have measured it. It was 5.6!!! 
(On one cycle I went on day 4 and it came back at 12 and it has worried me ever since) The next month I went on day1 and I have been doing the test only on day1 ever since... I sometimes wonder if I go on day2 what it would be

I think maybe my natural diet and excersize is helping... 

Bobbi, that wheatgerm juice, I just cannot take it!! and I stopped the agnus castus as I wasnt sure whether to take just for beginning as CWSG said or all cycle like you. Think I will definately ask the doc during this cycle.   

cwsg.... how are you going??


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

Hi

have good response today, according to Freda and Geeta. I'm on day 8 and have 11 follies, 6 on right and 5 on left, all measuring big enough for me to have EC on Monday, already! Well I wasn't expecting this. Also i must stop taking gonal F from now on. But take burserelin tonight and tommorow earlier.
My estrogen was good too, but it was last time.

so now we will settle in at my parents until after the treatment. We dont have any more long journeys back and forth to Wales, I really couldn't face this.

I couldnt be sure whether I had remembered the burseronlin, we left all the drugs in the car with the dog in Hammersmith, thanks to Avril's car park suggestion, it was really easy getting the tube from there. I borrowed another bottle from Freda in case. But when we got back to the car, i had packed it. She said it was normal to go loopy around treatment, so I dont feel guilty for being so spaced out now.

Harley street is a very odd place, I think I prefere Raynes park. Also going to the weird place two door up for a blood test and having to pay £50? Freda didnt tell me i had to pay so felt a bit ripped of. But on the very good side we got back £250 for having no egg last time, I thought it was supposed to be this amount, but when I spoke to Erica she said it was just £100. There you go, things seem to vary, so best to make sure.

Now relaxation until Monday where we have an 8.45 appointment for EC. Another very early start from Abbey Wood in South East London.
So i'm feeling pretty good right now, just for the moment.

good news Shell about your FSH!

bobbi, funny to hear the word schlep, is it a jewish phrase cos my dad uses it.

cwsg


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## Tosh (Nov 21, 2007)

Fantastic news Cwsg ! 

That's about the most follies I've seen anyone getting on a Create thread ! 
It looks really great for Monday 

Toshx


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

Whoops, I forgot we had different names on here, Tosh.

THANKS!!!!!!!Really, I didnt know that was that good! Thanks cheered me up! 
We went to pret a mange in hammersmith after with the dog and there was a steel band playing.

speak soon

cwsg xxx


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## looby_520 (Aug 20, 2007)

Shell - Thank you for explaining about the ARGC and Create.  When you say Create is very hands off, just how hands off are they?  How many scans do they ask you to go for prior to EC for example? Are they hot on blood tests?  I ask because I live outside London, about 40 minutes to get there on the train and I work full-time so I am really trying to work out the logisitics in readiness for if we choose to go there. eg. do I book a chunk of time off or are there few enough appts that I can do 1/2 days....  I realise I will find out more from the consultation but thought I would ask in the meantime.  

cwsg - I am encouraged by your 'Mild IVF' follie scan, 11 is a brilliant number, what dose of Gonal were you on, how long have you been stimming for?  Best of luck for your EC on Monday.    

Looby
xxx


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

Looby, 
they only did first scan on day 8 for mild ivf, I took 10 days off work to stay in London this time and last time. but I live 4.5 hours away. Not only this, we both have demanding work.
Geeta said to me the only time they recoment staying is the night before ec. But knowing that travel affects our body i decided I needed time off.

cwsg


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

ho looby, forgot to say,
i was on 225ml of gonal f and 0.5ml of burserolin for 7 days, then tonight no more gonal f and last burserolin. Then tommorow just one pregnul.

cwsg


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

Hello creaters!

CWSG - great news re: follies, hope they are full of lovely eggs.  All sounds really good.  Have a lovely relaxing weekend and good luck for EC on monday - look forward to hearing how it goes.

Looby: I had 3 scans on day 5/8/10 and they took bloods on day 5 and 10 I think...at the same time that I went to the clinic. I quite like the fact that there isn't too much monitoring but I definitely felt very looked after.  I enjoyed the process   and certainly don't feel put off doing it again.  I also got 10 follies and 7 eggs  - 3 fertilised and 2 embryos, so mild IVF can definitely work!

Shell - all sounding good for you.

Hello to anyone I've missed!

My bloods came back negative, so was a chemical pregnancy.  Feel ok about it, will book a follow-up with Geeta.  Just want to find out if anything that I can do differently and am bit worried that chemical pregnancy can be sign of immune issues so will talk to her about that.

Fingers crossed can go again in a months time.  Just have to wait for period to kick in now have stopped the delightful progesterone pessaries!

xx


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Looby, i never meant it to come accross as... hands off and that can sound like they dont care....and may sound a bit negative, It is just that the treatment is mild and there is not much need for a lot of monitoring. they have never had a case of ohss and this is the reason for all the bloods. I think I did 2 scans a week for natural and for the mildcycle.
In addition other clinics also do bloods 2x a week, it is just the argc that you have soooooo much bloods, i definately dont think it is the norm at all as the other 2 clinics I went to did bloods around the same amount.   

But the body feels more thankful after a round of mild or natural  

lulu, I believe that if you have a chemical it is a good sign that it will work in subsequent cycles! Good luck for the follow up.

and cwsg      you must be real excited about having a perfect number of follys, not too many and not too little! it must be a relief after having had one side with 20!! Well now just Rest and relaxation till monday!! Didnt you have to pay for bloods at wimbledon? At all the clinics I have had to pay for bloods!! it is funny how when you are used to a place a new place is not welcome. I always go to harley street so felt a bit odd at wimbledon.

I always have my bloods done at the funny blood clinic as argc use them too and was there today at around 12h30. I really like all the people there, I think they just wish Id hurry up and get pregnant as I dont have the easiest veins!!

you took your dog with all the way from Swansea!!, what dog have you got?? I have 2 BEAUTIFUL dog babies.


hi to bobbi and everyone else!!

I have a scan and bloods today so we will see if that cyst has gone and if we can go ahead with the cycle, will spend most of the day in harley street!!!


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## Louise68 (Oct 26, 2007)

cwsg, that's fantastic news.  It sounds to me as though you've had the perfect response - well done!  And great that you can now relax before EC and don't have to go 'schleping' it back to Wales in between!  All the best for Monday.

Shell, what a great FSH reading.  It's interesting that you think good diet may have had an influence.

Looby, I think it was me who said about Create being more hands-off but I didn't mean it in a negative way at all so sorry if it came over that way.  It was just really in comparison to the way Shell described the ARGC experience.  Personally I only have experience of Create and have always been more than satisfied with their service.  In my treatments with them I've had a max of 2 scans and 2 blood tests prior to EC.

I'm due to start mild IVF mid to end of June.  Was hoping to start sooner but have had to put it back one month.

Hello to everyone else too....Louise


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

i'm so happy that this thread is alive and positive again, especially now that i'm in the middle of it.
It is so important to be in communication through all this.

thanks for all your positive responses to my 11 folicles, it really helps me feel more positive.

Shell, your probably right about getting used to places, i like the little bend near the door as you leave. But the young man in the bloods place made a big bruise in my arm and it really hurt. Its ok now and not an important thing. I have noticed that the injections feel much stronger now, so glad today is the last day. I take buerserolin at 7pm and Pregnol at 10.15pm tonight.


cwsg


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

i ment bench near the door, typing really bad doing this, sorry


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

cwsg... well today is the trigger! and am praying for lots of good eggs for you!!Dont you think when you are in a tx cycle time goes so quick!! except the dreaded 2ww....  

Hi Louise... I am also putting off treatment again!!! My friendly ol cyst was still around!! So we are going to wait till day12 and see if she is still there.... (If she stays any longer will have to name her!) If she is there then will have drained at end of this cycle and wait till next to start stimming. But if all is okay to put back my one and only frozen baby, if it survives the thaw, may put it back this month if all looks suitable for after my scan!

So again I am waiting this one out... very frustrating but on the plus side, I had a course that i really want to do on the 28th and 29th may and now it looks like I can do it this month. I was thinking to postpone if I was in tx.

Hi to Bobbi, Looby and everyone else.....

cwsg...  you had me in stitches about the bend as your leaving......   
I am not sure the bench as you are leaving is any better!!!  
maybe he was the new blood person, I saw a new person on friday and he called me in... then micheal came and did mine instead, so maybe I just missed out on a v big bruise too!!  At least you have time for the bruise to heal on some of my treatment cycles I have been so bruised on both arms we have started taking blood from my fore arms and wrists too!!!


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

shell, glad i madeyou laugh, I ment the antique little bench on the right of the front door as you go out. The waiting room is interesting too, very old, is it regency. Those buiding are very large arnt they. 
It has gone extremely fast, I htough my ec would be on Thursday. I have actually book accupuncture with a friend of my accupunctuist in Wales for after my ec incase it goes wrong. I think what ever way it goes, the exitement is too much for me and will need grounding afterwards. Last time when I had no egg I felt like my world had just collapsed, so this time i'm taking extra precautions.

I hope your cyst goes quickly, I had one last October. It went by the next month. All these things happening in our conception vessels that we wouldnt know about it we werent having scans.

I'm doing absolutely nothing at the moment, that's why I'm on here. Later we are going out to my Dad's boat club for a games night, but obvcourse I cant drink, so a bit boring in that way. But I'm meeting a friend there that i havent seen for 1.5 years.

I'm rambling now.....


cwsg


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## looby_520 (Aug 20, 2007)

Hi everyone,

Thanks everyone for given me so much info re. scans, how many etc.  It's a great help to me to try and decide what our next step might be....

Shell - Sorry I must of got some of Louise's post mixed up with yours when replying to you!  

Louise - I totally understood what is meant by 'hands off', it seems a good phrase to use to describe their work ethic   Good luck for your tx in June.

Lulu - Those were brilliant results you had with Mild IVF.

I've had 3 cycles in total, the 2 in the UK I produced 10 eggs, and 9 eggs respectively, this last one I produced just 4.  It is because of this last result I have been recommended to have Mild IVF, however,  I have just emailed the consultant and he says I will achieve less eggs with Mild IVF.  This is confusing me even more as if we produce less than 4 eggs we stand to not get any fertilised with our rate being so poor.  I guess I need to think long and hard about everything.

Thanks
Looby
xxx


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## rolney (Feb 1, 2009)

Hello all
Have been reading the thread for a while now and have decided to hopefully contribute as I've just started a natural IVF cycle there and had my first scan on Friday.  I have one follicle at 9mm and go back on Monday for another scan.

I do have a question for the experts out there.  I thought I was on a natural cycle but have got a prescription through the post for 3 doses of Gonal F 125 iu.  I'm pretty confused as I was pointed in the direction of this tx on the basis that I had an absolute failure on the short protocol.  No follicles wanted to grow on very high doses 
Is it usual to be given this on a natural cycle?  

Any help very grateful as I find it hard to get answers sometimes from Raynes Park.  Although I think they are incredibly good!  It is much less of a conveyor belt process than the Nuffield Woking.

Many thanks


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Hi Rolney,

You can do a controlled natural cycle or a totally natural cycle. If you have drugs then this is controlled natural. Once you have a dominant follicle they give you a small amount of drugs to feed that folly and make it big and healthy. Then you take pregnyl to trigger when you are ready

Hope that helps explain. Lots of luck for this cycle.


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## rolney (Feb 1, 2009)

Thanks Shell.  Yes that does help thanks and makes sense.  So I guess I'm on a controlled.  I will try and get some more answers tomorrow when I'm there again.


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## Louise68 (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi Rolney, good luck with the natural controlled cycle.  I´ve done controlled cycles with Create too and have had to inject for around 3 days with Gonal F and Cetrotide to control ovulaton and then the hcg trigger 36 hours before EC.

cwsg - good luck for tomorrow and hope you get the best possible outcome.

Shell, you´re right - I am putting it off a bit.  It´s our last shot really and feel I need to be a bitter better prepared mentally plus I´m going to do the level one immune tests (free through my GP) and re-check my ferritin level as that was super-low 3 months ago, and first I knew about having an iron deficiency.  I´ve been on iron supplements since and read in my Zita thingy book that it can affect fertility.  

All the best to everyone,
Louise


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

cwsg - Good Luck for today, hope you are being driven all the way by hubby and you are having a relaxing sleep in the back of the car!! Praying for lots of eggs for you!!        

Lulumead - how are you? 

Bobbi - thinking of booking a session of accupuncture. Maybe that will help just not sure as really didnt like it last time but maybe one more try!!

Rolney - hope all is going well!!

Looby - every cycle is different and it is hard to determine that you will only get 4 eggs next time. What amount of stims were you on? Sometimes it is really hard to decide what to do. I cycled with a lady at argc who was on max drugs, only made 3 eggs and is now pregnant. So it is not quantity !! I did make less eggs on my mild cycle to all the others tho. 

Louise - Hope your cycle comes quickly!!

Hello to everyone!!


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## rolney (Feb 1, 2009)

Hi all
Went for Day 8 scan today and to start meds only to find my follie is 18mm all on its own and ready for egg collection without any Gonal F now.  I had a blood test and waiting for results for ?oestrogen? and also LH level.  I'm scheduled for Weds but it may be tomorrow if its looks like I'm closer to surging.  I have to take my injection at 11.15 tonight if its Weds.  Oh my goodness I can't believe this has happened so quickly.  Whatever the outcome this has been twenty times less stressful than my abandoned short protocol.

I'm so lucky to live only 15 mins from the Raynes Park clinic and I can work from home a lot so I guess I'm just primed and ready to go now..  

I was standing waiting to pay and couldn't believe the number of appts booked in for today for Day 8/9 scans so it must be busy times for them.

Hope everyone is going well and various cysts are shrinking!


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

rolney - that all sounds very good!!  

cwsg - waiting patiently (not really) for news !!!!   

Bobbi - where you gone??


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

CW -Hope all has gone well today and you are resting  

Roleny - Great news about the follie, sounds a beauty!

Did anyone see Geeta on GMTV this morning? Was v early, about half six, she was commenting on the 66 year old mother.

Beegey xx


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

beegey.. I missed it, what did she have to say


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## Be Lucky (Mar 22, 2008)

Was jus goin ask that!beegay when u due.glad this thread is goin well again.i still read it!berniex


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

Well, from what I can remember (had a bit of a sleepy head) she was saying that there are lots of associated risks to the mother and child during the pregnancy, higher chance of complications and that the mothers health was likely to suffer long term. Also that the child would likely lose their parent in the teens and for this reason she would question how ethical the practice of such an older mother was, as she has to put the welfare of the child first. Also talked a bit about donor eggs/sperm but can't recall now what she said exactly. She looked very nice and we told the baby that she was her maker!

Bernie - all ok here thanks - baby lying across ways so might be headed for a section. Am 35 weeks tomorrow. How are you doing? I agree, its great to have a Create thread again  . I wonder how Marinegirl,Matti, Heart and Angels are?

Beegey xx


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## Kellois (Jan 28, 2009)

Hello everyone!

I've been reading all your posts quietly as our own rollercoaster of a IVF ride has been shaking us around. Since I posted last time, I've had a natural cycle abandoned last month I ovulated too early (one follie was 18mm by day  so missed out. (In actual fact Geeta thought it was a cyst not a follie, but found a copus luteum today so was a follie after all) 

Then I had the results of the dreaded AMH by phone on Friday. Don't know why I wasted my money really finding out something I knew already. A terrible result of 0.7, spent the whole weekend moping around, in tears, searching online for any ray of hope (didn't find much). 

Then today, I had a day 6 scan booked for this morning at Create in the hope of starting a natural cycle this month. To be honest I didn't hold out much hope and had been starting to work through stopping all treatment and calling it a day. But have just found out that I have two decent size follies, and am starting a controlled natural cycle straight away. 

Out of interest - is it only Create that offer natural or controlled natural cycles? It is difficult to compare their stats as they only have stats per ET not cycle started, don't express stats by aged 40-42 and 43-45 and only have 6 month not 12 month stats. 

Good luck everyone, kellois


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

hi all...nice to see some activity on here  

Kellios: hope those follies keep going well. 

Beegey: hope baby does some turning about  

rolney: good luck  

cwsg: hope EC went well today and they have fun tonight in the dish  

All ok here with me, period came post failed IVF as normal, so pleased about that.  Booked for follow-up with Geeta on Friday, but pretty sure she will just say that it all went well, I got 7 eggs, 3 fertilised and 2 embies went back and then had a chemical pregnancy...so not sure what to make of that other than unlucky.  Going to ask about immune issues though, just in case my body rejected for some reason.  My friend said that i do have a very strong immune system (rarely ill) but I don't think its the same thing  

xx


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Kellois - 

London fertility clinic also do natural. They are far more expensive than create. Their figures on the HFEA are not v good if I remember correctly.

I agree though, it is real hard looking at Creates figures as even though it is figures from ET. I have had 8 cycles and have always made it to transfer however on my natural cycle I didnt. The figures that they give seem very high and much higher than I expected. In reality it is said somewhere that you would need a few natural cycles to one stimmed cycle so that would then make the figures much lower than on their stats. I wish that HFEA would differentiate in stats between natural cycles and stimmed cycles as it is very hard to compare clinics without them doing so.... for when creates figures go onto the HFEA website. This also makes it really hard when looking at LFCs figures.

LFC ... I am not a fan, however I am sure many people have gotton pregnant with them too. But at least their figures are out there... for you to make a decision on. They dont offer a discount for natural so you can do natural but pay the same price as for stimmed IVF. This is when I enquired, but may have changed since.

I also abandoned last month! I think to truly see whether natural works you need to give it a good few months. However I have noticed that all ladies seem to move from Natural to mild. I am planning on doing at least 3 in a row at some point and giving it a very good go!!

Good luck with this cycle!!!

Lulumead... you made me laugh with that immune pun!!!


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

Kellios - sorry to hear what happened   Are you okay? I would be pretty peed off with the clinic for missing that, I have to say. Sounds like you produce hefty follicles though, so thats great news. As Shell said, the LFC do natural and mild stimms and actually a friend of mine on the site, Lorraine Lac had a very positive experience with them and got a bfp first time which has resulted in her gorgeous boy. I am sure she will answer any questions if anyone wanted to pm her xx


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## Be Lucky (Mar 22, 2008)

Beegay.ru havin baby at kingston?not long now.i am still in touch with matti.havent been that well in the last week.had thrush.possible uti and had diarrohea 2 boot.went 2 gp and hospital.felt reassured.kellois i had amh of 0.5 and got pregnant naturally at 43.5 yrs!i am determined 2 give u hope.2 the lady livin 15 mins fm raynes pk.i am the same in new malden direction.mayb we neighbors!2 all create ladies wherever ur in treatment-good luck berniex


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## rolney (Feb 1, 2009)

Well it looks like Weds for EC for me.  Have to do a final ovulation test at 8pm tonight and call if its positive but otherwise its Weds.  

Kellios - sorry to hear your news.  How frustrating for you.  Fingers crossed for new follies.

Belucky - I'm not too far from you around Esher.   I lived in Wimbledon up until last Summer but we've moved a little further out now.

Still getting to grips with everyone's current situations so hi to everyone trying and good to hear of those who are now pregnant to show there's hope


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

Hi

Shell, Bobi, Louise, AND ALL,

good news so far!!! 

wait for it....

All 11 folicles had eggs in them!!

I had accupuncture afterwards, booked it incase another disappiontment, as didnt know a counsellor (not sure of spelling)

Am resting and a bit sore, but so pleased.

Now the next hurdle, ate they going to fertilise, I will find out tommorow.

Cwsg


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

Wow, cw, what a result!! Fantastic news  . Hope you don't feel too sore and       that all the little eggies get jiggy with the swimmers overnight  . Ooh, I will be all nervous for you tomorrow, waiting for the phone call  , hope they don't leave you waiting all morning...You might even get frosties    

Bernie - yes, am at Kingston now. We moved to Teddington a few months ago but I wanted to stay at Kingston Hosp. Been very impressed with the levels of care there, though admin can be a bit haphazard and waiting times can be horrendous (sounds a familiar story, eh?!) Where are you registered?


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

brilliant news re:eggies...look forward to hearing how busy they have been overnight  

xx


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

ahhhhhhhh cw that is excellent!!

Got up v early to go on the dreaded treadmill and thought Id have a quick peek to see if you had any news!
I had a good feeling that there would be lots of eggs!! Well done!!!!!!!


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

Even better news...

8 of of 11 have fertilised!      

by the way Shell, I see you are in South London, I'm staying in Abbey Wood, further out from Greenwhich, where are you?

cwsg


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

cw... that is brilliant news!!!!   
I am so happy for you!!

You have done so well on this cycle!!! 

I am in North London, Hornsey area. ((Near wood green, turnpike lane, crouch end.))


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

oh, i dont know were i saw south london then, must be someone else.

cwsg x


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

brilliant Cwsg, I'm in South london...Anerley, near crystal palace but I grew up in bexleyheath!
x


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

Oh, great news CW! Do you think they will go to blasts? Did the embreologist give you any indication of the quality? Gosh, you must be so chuffed! 

Beegey x


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

lulumead, ah so you are the south London Las

beegey, I'm not completely sure i understand the procedure of blastocyst or Freezing. Is it that once they can tell the quality, then they ask me if I would like some of them to be keeped developing in the tube unti day 5, that is if they think they are stromg enough. Is it usually a chice between blastocyst or day 3 ET, or do they do both one on day 3 and 2 on day 5? Then do I decide between blastocyst and freezing?

cwsg

hav i got a new name...CW. is it easier to type?

CW


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

cw.... I think it depends on the clinic and their policy. Some clinics transfer always on day3 and freeze at this point any good looking embryos. I never got any to freeze on my mild cycle at create as none were strong enough  I think and they transferred for my cycle on day3.

I dont think you usually get to make any decision on it as it depends on the number of embies on day2 and day3. Most clinics only go to day5 blast if they cannot make a decision on which is the best ones for transfer. I think at most clinics very few embies make it to freezing. On argc website they say only 10% I think get frozen. 

But I am truly unsure of policy at Create however most times I think it is out of your hands. Only time I was asked was when I had all very good embies on day 3 at LFC and as they charged extra for Blast they advised to go to blast to select best embryos. I still had none to freeze though. But at day5 there were clear winners.

At some clinics they only freeze day5 and day6 blasts but they can be frozen at anytime.

I think.................. but not sure about all this... in all my treatment cycles I have only had one frozen baby waiting for me!!!


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## looby_520 (Aug 20, 2007)

cwsg - brilliant news about your embies, what a fantastic result!!       for your ET

Shell - I was on 450 Gonal for first 2 cycles, last one was 300 of Gonal/150 Menopur.  Still mulling things over...  

Looby
xxx


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## rolney (Feb 1, 2009)

wow cwsg - that's an amazing number of fertilised eggs.  Congratulations  

I am due to go in for EC tomorrow morning for my one solitary follicle tomorrow    I can't complain really, as I seem to be reminded of my low ovarian reserve all the time (!) so one follicle is better than none


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

best of luck rolney for tomorrow,

it only takes one.

cwsg


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

does anyone know when they tell you you ET date, is it the day before, or can it be on the same day?
Do they do both day 3 ET and blastocyst on day 5 or either or.

cwsg


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## Angels4Me (Apr 8, 2006)

Hi cwsg, wish you luck will all those embies  

good luck to the rest of you going through it


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

cw, they do either a day3 transfer on day3 or a day5 blast on day5. I think!

I have never heard of anyone doing both But unsure if that happens??

I think just phone them up and ask all the questions that you have!! When you call today to find out how they are doing and how many cells they are, then ask all the questions about when they think transfer will be. They should know today if you are going to transfer tomorrow or if there is a chance that you will go to blast.


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

they have decided to transfere tomorrow.
I have 3 that have divided into two and 5 that have divided into 4, it is day two.
They didnt explain why they didnt want to wait till blastocyst and said they would explain tommorow?

It is true that the 3 that are slower are less good quality?
Anyhow, I must decide whether to put three back or two. 

cwsg


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

CW did they not give you gradings of the embies? All still sounds good to me      . I do find the day 3 v blasto transfer an interesting debate. We had 2 put back on day three and one clearly looked of better quality than the other and when both implanted one twin was always bigger and more active than the other. However, it was the bigger 'healthier' looking baby we lost and titch that stayed on board so I always wonder if left in the petri dish for a couple more days whether tere would have been a marked deterioration in the quality of the baby that didn't make it?  

Good luck to Roleny today


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

cw... sounds very good!! 

with 5 embryos at 4 cells today I am v surprised they arent going to blast.
But maybe there are at this time clear leaders as to who is stronger!!!

But either way... they sound very good!!

Since most of their treatment is mild or natural they probably dont often get anyone with enough embryos to go to blast.... just a thought!! 
But it makes no difference, a day3 transfer or a day 5 transfer... some say they are better off in the body.

You must be sooo excited!!

Did they discuss freezing at this stage, did you ask them


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## rolney (Feb 1, 2009)

Went for egg collectiion today.  No egg.  Pretty upsetting for us both.
We were advised to have IUI just in case the egg was there but that felt like clutching at straws really as what are the chances?

Care was very good but we've been left feeling very confused on next steps.  They were very busy so we got cursury advice on needing to take pessaries but not for how long and what the next steps are so we're left feeling a little anxious.  I guess will need to call them tomorrow to find out what now.


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

Rolney - really sorry to hear that   Would it be worth some bms anyway? xx


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

brilliant news cw  

rolney, sorry its been tough and you have been left confused...definitely call them tomorrow.
xx


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

hello bobbi! Glad you are back!! Im waiting this cycle again as the cyst is still there!! Going to argc next week for a scan to see if it needs draining.

Rolney... so sorry about the empty follie!!  I think you really need 3 rounds of natural to see if it works for you. But I know from experience, when I had natural we collected the damn egg and it didnt fertilise!!  It is sometimes hard to go with a natural for the next cycle! But I do plan on doing it at some point, giving it a good few goes in a row. Did you go ahead with the iui? I presume so or you wouldnt need the pessaries?!! CW also had an empty folly and went this round for mild and has lots of embies all filled with eggs!   

cw... are you having transfer today? Did you freeze any?    Lots of rest!!

hello to everyone else!!!


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

I took it for about 3 days!  then it was mid cycle and I stopped as I wasnt sure.

Maybe, I will have to do a day3 test again this month as it always required at argc, so we will see if there is a difference.

I am going to ask at argc about how they recommend taking it??


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

bobbi, how short are your cycles? mine are always short!!


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Mine too are about 25days or 26days. I think at the very longest is 27days on the odd occasion and last cycle was 24 days. I do get the odd 22 days too.

Do you think it is a bad thing for them to be so short.... thats why I fly through so much treatment at twice the speed of other people!!   

I think that I ovulate around day 10, 11 or 12 so I think LP is fine.

I would rather be 25days than 40 days!!! I cant think of anything worse!! Than waiting for 2 months for AF to arrive!!!


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

hi,
havent read new post yet, but thought i'd update my story first

i had egg transfer today. They put two grade 2 embs back and froze one. On Monday i will hear if the other 5 got to blastcyst, and therefore will go to freeze too.
I actually enjoyed the et experience. They played a relaxation tape which really helped.
I really felt them in there. Now i dont feel anything.
I had accupncture before and after, which hopefully will help.



cwsg x


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## rolney (Feb 1, 2009)

Hi all

Congrats CW, all still seems to be going really strong for you  
Good luck Shell and thanks for the welcome Bobbi.

Thanks to all for your advice, particularly Kellois' PM.  

DH phoned and spoke to Erica today after we hadn't heard anything and got some info on the (not very nice)pessaries.  We have decided to book a follow up with Geeta to find out if there is anything we can do differently and when we can start again.  They've told us to wait 2 weeks for the test but frankly, given the IUI was done after a fairly thorough rummage around for that egg    it does seem a bit daft, so we'll go back in between.  

We took today off anyway and had a nice lunch and walk along the river in the sun, and we're a bit more upbeat today.  Onwards and upwards


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

great news CW, hope you get some blasts too, that would be ace.

Am off for my follow-up consultation with geeta tomorrow, so hoping to find out more about the chemical pregnancy thing.
x


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## rolney (Feb 1, 2009)

Good luck Lulu


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

That is all good news CW!
Are you still in London? or heading home??
Embies are snuggling in!!


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Rolney and CW...

Thinking of you both.... this is my worst... the loooooong wait!! 
Hope you are both resting a lot!!!


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## Louise68 (Oct 26, 2007)

rolney, really sorry to hear about your EC.  It´s tough to come to terms with the huge disappointment, I know from experience as that´s what happened to me on my first round of Natural IVF.  I was never offered IUI though - even though they knew there was an egg but it was stuck to the inside of the follicle.  (This was when LFC did the lab work).  I hope you get some encouragement from the clinic and feel better about it soon.

cwsg, that´s great news about your ET and remaining embryos.  Good luck with the 2ww and hope you can relax a bit and not worry too much.  The pessaries aren´t much fun though, are they!!  I´m interested to see you went for a 2 embryo transfer rather than 3. 

hi to everyone else too, must dash ....


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

hello all,

just a quick one from me...basically Geeta said she was surprised it hadn't worked, no medical reason...everything seemed good!  If I had a second biochemical then she would investigate further.  HAs upped my gonal F to 225 and suggested acupuncture which i didn't have last time.  So should start injections in about 3 weeks!

hope all good with everyone and Cw you are relaxing on the 2WW.
x


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

Hi 
louise, it was really hard to choose between two or three to go back. But Claire, the french doctor said that there was an increased risk they they may not survive the birth, and other risks. because it was my first egg transfere, there wasn't any evidence to show that I had a weakness with implatation. If it doesnt work this time them they would re-evaluate the situation. She asked me if i would like her to ask Geeta, and I said yes please. Geeta agreed with her.

I'm still relaxing for a few more days at my parents. i know one we are back, the relaxation will be over.

Jess x


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## Kellois (Jan 28, 2009)

Hi
Quick update from me - went for second egg collection today and once again, looks like follicle was empty. Was offered and accepted IUI but I'm being realistic. We are both really concerned that this implies some underlying problem and that Geeta will refuse to treat us anymore. 

K


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

Kellios,

sorry to hear you have had to go through this again. It does'nt neccesarily mean there is an underlying problem, could be just bad luck.
A woman at reception said that women have had this experience twice and the third time had eggs collected. But I know this cant help your feeling of dissappiontment right now.

whn is your follow up appointment.

cwsg


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## rolney (Feb 1, 2009)

Kellois - I'm so so sorry to hear.  I can't imagine they won't treat you again?  I'd hope not.  They seem not so driven by results and seem so much more open to treating us 'older' women.  Doesn't this make you feel ancient?  I hope you feel better soon 

Louise - thanks, its seems like no egg is not so rare when you see others going through it.  I wasn't told that the egg was still in there like you.  It was all a bit vague but I guess they must have thought it might be to do the IUI.

Good luck to everyone else and hope you enjoy the lovely weather


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## rolney (Feb 1, 2009)

Well, have been struggling with side effects from the Utrogestan so have been up for hours and started to do some research on failure to retrieve eggs and success of IUI afterwards.  I can't find anything out there on the www about this so I have to think that it's pretty unlikely, which makes me wonder why it is offered.  

The only information I can find is that where eggs are stuck to the follicles (which I'm still not sure if that was the case with me until we see Geeta) it is because they are immature or poor, which means they are unlikely to fertilise in normal circumstances.  But it's taken me best part of 2 hours to gather any level of information.  Interesting that there isn't more out there as it seems to be reasonably common.  It seems they can also turn into cysts which concerned me as I've had tx delayed before due to a cyst.  But then again that was on a SP so I can understand not being able to start.  I guess with natural it doesn't matter if there's a cyst there?...

So feeling pretty fed up about having to take the Utrogestan and needed to offload.  Sorry


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

the wb can be very confusing, there are so many opinions out there, but as long as we are prepard not the believe the first one we read then at least it gives some background info.



cwsg


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

Hi all,

the progesterone they have given me is in capsual form, i had suppositiries before. They advised to insert them vaginally, although they are made for swallowing. hope i've been given the right ones. Is this what create normally give?
This and baby asprin is all they have given me, I see other clinics give oestrogen. There doesnt seem to be much info on what else to take, i'm taking  fish oils, dsh.

be still is going to make me depressed soon.  and i'm only 5 days in. 

how is everyone

cwsg


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

Hi CW,

sounds exactly like I was given, called something like Utrogestone Vaginal pessaries but when you read the box says to be taken orally...they made me feel quite tired!

Hope you're not going to   on the 2WW yet. sending lots of    

Rolney: hope you are doing ok.

Kellios:  , hope you get some answers and can plan a way forward.

xx


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

i've just worked out that as my et was on thursday, May 21 and my test day is June 1st, that makes my 2ww just 11 days ?

is this normal

cwsg


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

Hi, mine seemed short too....ET on 1 May and test on the 12th
x


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

lulumead....really, i'll ring them i guess

how are you doing, your treatment went so well, i was really surprised that you didn't get pregnant. So are you having another go soon.

cwsg


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

I think most clinics say a test 14 days after egg collection.

yes, my treatment all went well...Geeta said she was surprised it didn't work! I suppose just one of those things. trying to be positive that is just a matter of time  

I start again in about 3 weeks.

So pleased I went to create, very behind their philosophy so I hope I get a result!

Things are looking good for you too. How you feeling?
xx


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

i am starting to worry about the test, how will i cope if it doesn't work. i feel so good about getting this far and we both (my partner and i) still feel in a state of bliss after the amazing et experience. The reality of the fact that our luck could change is there lurking in the background.
I've decided not to go in to college tomorrow and go out with my friend instead while me partners at work. Then my job starts on Wednesday, which can be stressfull, so i'll just plod through calmly. On Thursday i start back teaching yoga, so i'll just talk through rather than do it with them.
I've got accounts to do too, and another big project to get together.

just writing this down, it all sounds too much, and you are probably thinking the same

cwsg


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

the waiting is definitely tough but its good to stay positive, no reason why it won't work...it has to work for some people  , so why not you! try and enjoy the fact that you are pregnant until proved otherwise. Its hard though  

I think its good to have some distractions too, so working and seeing friends is probably a good thing. take it easy, stay positive.  

and some  

xx


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

Hi 

I have just phoned create to find out what happened to my 5 embryo's and the good news is that they made it to blastocyst   but unfortunately they didnt freeze them as they weren't good enough quality. 
The embryologist said that this means the embryos inside me have a good chance of implanting as that would also have gone to blastocyst.  

I have been feeling things going on, light small cramps and twinges. But it hurts when I urinate, and she didnt seem to give me and answer on this.



cwsg


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Hello cw.... Ive never had it hurt when i urinate!  
But twinges are good!!!
My thoughts are with u, I hate the 2ww. Yes it is shorter... as you count 2 weeks from EC not ET.

Hi bobbi  ...hope u are well

kellois.... sorry about there being no egg to collect!

lulumead...hope it goes quick toyour next treatment

hello to everyone else


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## Be Lucky (Mar 22, 2008)

Dear cw.u could hav a slight uti.it quite common as u hav had 2 procedures in quite short time.i had 1 last year during ivf last year.the gp gave me antibiotics. Berniex


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

bernie,

what does uti. stand for


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## Angels4Me (Apr 8, 2006)

really wish you all the luck in the world cwsg


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## Be Lucky (Mar 22, 2008)

Urinary tract infection.it just when u said it hurt when u wee.drink plenty of water and if it carries on c ur gp who will prob test a sample of urine 4u.well done on ur good results and good luck.berniex


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## Louise68 (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi to everyone!

cwsg, hope you´re feeling good and keeping positive on your 2ww, easy to say I know!  And sorry to hear they decided the remaining embryos were not suitable for freezing, especially since they all made it to the blastocyst stage.

Lulumead, I think we´ll be cycling at the same time.  I should be starting in about 3-4 weeks depending on how long this cycle is but I´ve been having short cycles recently so could be sooner rather than later.  Do you know what dose you will be on?  I think I´ll be on 112.5 Gonal F like last time with Buserelin. 

Louise


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Hi bobbi!!

How are things?

No not sure what Im doing.

All is okay for a frozen cycle and got my smily face on the ovulation test yesterday but dont want to go to clinic for thurs and fri this week as I have a course that I really really want to attend... so am waiting to see what they can do!!

Or I will wait till next month and do a fresh...

sooo nothing going on really... just waiting!!!

hello to everyone!!!


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

thanks bernie, bobbi if it gets any worse i'll call the doctor, it's a bit better today, i drank cranberry juice as this is supposed to help.

hi shell, and lulumead, 
louise..at least I have one frozen, and it means the ones inside me have probabl gone to blastocyst too. 
had my first day back in shop with loads to catch up on. 
I have booked a blood test monday morning at the local surgery, but wont get the result back till at least the next day as they send it off to the hospital.
Why have create gone for blood tests rather that home wee tests?
Although i am very aprehensive about the test, I still feel good in myself, I just sooooo want it to be positive   
I know that as much as  I might feel pregnant, I really dont know, but right now it's easier to think i probably am, so sad myself going insane.

cwsg


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

hello angels,

how are you doing with the immune tests

shell- i teach iyengar yoga


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Ugh Utrogestan, the bane of my first 12 weeks!  Horrible stuff, but necessary.  Apparently they work better as vaginal pessarie.  Even though it doesn't specify it on the box they are designed to be taken either way.  Messy knickers ahoy!

Cw don't forget that your poor innards have been through some very invasive procedures and are bruised and beaten up, weird stabbing pains and twinges are perfectly normal - and actually a good sign.  You need to be checked for a UTI but if that's clear then don't worry about the pee pain.  I remember that my whole belly felt sore for my TWW, like I'd gone crazy at an aerobics class the night before or something!


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## rolney (Feb 1, 2009)

Afternoon all
So we went for our follow up with Geeta yesterday following failed egg collection last week.

She was very helpful and informative, particularly around the reason for the IUI.

By my reckoning we will be starting new cycle back end of next week.  I think she is going to give me very mild stimulation this time, not to grow multiple follicles but to help the one primary one along.  Does anyone else have experience of this?

Hope everyone is well and enjoy the sunny weekend


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

rolney,  it sounds like Geeta is treating your case individually which is good


hope everyone else is doing ok


the 2ww has got really hard now, just finding a way to prepare with the result if it isnt what i want.
But had some help with this through a councelling session with my accupuncturist today, so feeling stronger again.
We havent decide whether to test Sunday with hpt or wait for blood test to come back and ask that they dont phone but we pick it up, or i pick it up and wait for my partner to come home before we look together. In a way i feel it's easier not to do it myself, but have a blood test.

The possible UTI symtoms have gone away, which is good, but so have the tinglings. This morning I had a new, but familiar pmt feeling, it's gone after accupuncture, thank god.

cwsg


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

cwsg that doesn't necessarily mean that you're coming on, I had those feelings and they kind of came and went.  Lots of others have had it too, so don't give up hope.


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

thanks julianne, thats what i needed to hear


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

I too had terrible cramping, after a 2ww of not really feeling much at all. Think it started around day 10/11 and felt exactly like af was coming. I threw in the towel completely. Then did about 4 pee sticks on OTD AND insisted they saw me for a blood test that morning before I told Dh  

Good luck CW!! x


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

that was brave beegey, doing it on your own. Did the pee sticks all say positive, and how did you find out the result of the bloos test

cw


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

i'm too impatient, I tested on the day they said I could have a blood test about 11 days after EC  (and two days before they said I could use a HPT), and got faint positives (due to chemical pregnancy)...I only did blood test to get confirmation.  I couldn't bear them being the ones to tell me if it was negative....maybe I'm a control freak  

I felt very weird towards the end of 2WW, and i think you can feel like you're coming on as the pessaries have those side effects.

It definitely drives you    the end of the wait.  Crossing everything for you that its works     

xx


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

I did the hpt's on the day before I was told to go for the bloods at the clinic. Partly out of curiosity and partly as I had somehow run out of cyclogest and wasnt going to bother getting any more. I wasn't particularly nervous doing the test, by that point it felt like I had had so many bfn's in the past and I really was expecting another. All the pee sticks were positive, to my total amazement  . I rang Create and begged Frieda for a blood test that morning and they agreed so I trotted down there and waited in reception until they had a second the do the test. It was sent off to the lab about 11 and I was assured it would be back by the end of the day (made Frieda PROMISE to call me the second it was back!) They called about 5.30 to confirm it as a positive.

The hcg level was 169 which I was told was quite high probably due to the fact that it started as a twin pregnancy. This could also be why it showed up on a hpt a bit early. Hope this helps and wasn't too tedious to read!

Oh, lastly I was quite surprised to be charged for the blood test (about £50, I think.) Had assumed it was part of the 'package'. But, tbh, I had had extra scans and things during the cycle so didn't really mind paying.

Beegey xx


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

Beegey - just noticed you don't have long to go...how exciting..how you feeling?
xx


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

thanks sooooo much for sharing your experiences with me.

Whats happened now is that my tummy has gone quite flat, i mean not bloated, the first time in ages. I'm feeling quite teary, not actally crying like i have before but finding tears dropping down my face.  like this except not as miserable.

soon i'll know either way. 

the anticipation is making me feel it my be best to do it tomorrow, then we have the whole day together to deal with it. I'll go and by a better test kit.


cwsg


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Oh my goodness, cw... are you testing tomorrow!!

      

I am very bad with pee sticks and sometimes test all the way through!! 

Lots of thoughts and prayers that the embies are snuggled nicely.

Will be looking out for news!!!


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

sorry about all my boring details, but itv help me to know i have a team 

i bought a clearblue 2 pck pg test kit, about £13 which says pregnant and how much or not pregnant. The woman in the shop said they can be wrong if it says not pregnant but not if it says pregnant. At this piont i stared at her blankly and felt myself go into outerspace. She said, how far overdue are you, so i said my test day is monday, that i have had ivf and i wont it to be positive, she said, arrr good luck, i left all welled up.

I bought two steak fillets to give us strength tonight, and need to think of a beutifull place to go tomorrow after.

Sorry for those of you who are getting bored with my dairy type messages and sorry that they are mainly about me. Hopefully soon i'll be able to be on the other side.


thanks for you      shell

cwsg xxxx


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## Louise68 (Oct 26, 2007)

cwsg, thinking of you and so hope you get good news whenever you decide to test; the wait is so hard though, isn't it!

Louise 
x


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## rolney (Feb 1, 2009)

cwsg - good luck for your test.


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

we tested this morning at 7am and it said PREGNANT 1-2weeks.

Its still sinking in, we are going out to thev seaside for the day. Will do the blood test tomorrow.

We cant believe it yet    

thanks everyone for putting up with my nerves


Jess xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Tosh (Nov 21, 2007)

Congratulations Jess 

I told you you would do it !! I said that from the start ! 

There I have posted especially for you ! Ha Ha 

Tosh xx


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## Be Lucky (Mar 22, 2008)

Yippee!yippee!congratulations jess and other half.lady in chemist right that test best in business.berniex


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## Louise68 (Oct 26, 2007)

cwsg, 

Fantastic news!  Congratulations!  You must be over the moon.  I'm so pleased for you.  And it gives us all hope too!  Enjoy the high you must be on, and take it easy..........love, Louise xxx


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## beegey (Apr 24, 2008)

Ah, CW, fantabulous news - just snatched 5 mins on the computer to see if we had heard from you! Have everything crossed for a good number tomorrow   but for now, enjoy it for what it is and have a lovely day by the seaside!!  

Lulu - thanks for you note - no, not long now, got three weeks left. So excited I could burst (I look pretty much fit to burst too!  )

Bernie - how are you feeling? When is your 20 week scan?

Beegey x


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

yippeeeeee...great news CW...so pleased.
xx


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

CW.... was just checking for news!

So excited for you!!! Congrats to both of you!!


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## dakota (Feb 6, 2007)

New home this way.............http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=196280.0


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