# Unused embryos - overseas ivf - what happens to them?



## Redgirl (May 16, 2007)

Hi - I am starting to think about donor eggs at an ivf clinic abroad for cost reasons.  We would want to use DH sperm.  Someone has cautioned me about overseas clinics not being regulated like the ones in the UK.  For instance there is no mention on many of the overseas clinics on what they do with any embryos (donor egg with husbands sperm) that are left over.  If we didn't want to use them ourselves I am not sure we would want anyone else to use them either.  We'd probably let them go - as in discard them.  I'm a bit worried that clinics might keep them without telling us and offer them to other couples.  There is no EU law on what clinics 'have ' to do - so how can I be certain any left over embryos will be 'let go' for want of a better word and not kept against out wishes?

I just wondered if anyone has any experience of this and may be able to offer advice?  The clinic website do not seem to address this.

Red
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## mierran (Apr 24, 2009)

Hi,
I think you have to make sure you pick a clinic you trust. You have to trust them re screening the donor etc anyway. And unless your husband has been karyotyped and they have a copy of his results he won't match their requirements anyway.

It depends on your clinic and your husband's sperm, and luck, as to how many embryos you get anyway. You may find you don't get a bfp first time as success rates for de are over 90% over 3 cycles where one cycle is the fresh transfer and transfer of all frozen embryos from that cycle. So it may be a moot point anyway. 

Generally there is more regulations within the eu and the usa that outwith.

The other thing to remember is that they tend to have lots of eggs and donor sperm so embryos are not as precious to them as they are to us. That's not to say it can't happen,  esp if you get eg twins from 2 embryos transferred and have lots left over that are likely to be good quality. 

I don't think anyone can completely set your mind at ease but I actually came at it from the other way. I wanted to be sure any leftover embryos could be adopted rather than destroyed and as dp has had all the additional tests required. My ivf coordinator,  who is a British fertility nurse, said she had never been asked about this before. 

You could speak to her at [email protected]

she could set your mind at rest about the clinics she works with

good luck with your treatment, wherever you go. 

X x 

/links


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## Redgirl (May 16, 2007)

Thank you Mierran - what you say makes sense and is really helpful.  You are right - it would be about trusting your clinic as they are not as closely regulated as the UK.  And also thank you for the web link - that looks really interesting too.  We are just gathering info. at the moment so we are trying to find out as much as possible.

Red
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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Hi,

My advice is to proceed with caution.  As mentioned above, clinics in Europe aren't monitored in the same way as the UK. Many clinics abroad openly admit that they will only store a couple's embryos for a certain period and then will contact them twice only before giving them to another couple without their permission if necessary.  This will obviously mean that your children may well have full siblings somewhere out there, with you potentially having no say about whether they should have been donated.  Hopefully, the clinic you use will have good procedure in place for this and I would ask any clinic you may use to clarify this in writing.

I have twins via donor embryo in Spain who are now 8.  I was given three donor embryos with no information about the donors or whether other couples had given them away for donation.    My children do know all about this though as I have told them about their conception since birth.  It may be that they want to know more about the donors, or not.

Anyway, if non-anonymity is important to you, staying in the UK is an option.  Sometimes the cost of travel, accommodation, expenses, scans etc. can make UK treatment comparable possibly?  If not, there are clinics in Europe that are better regulated. Also just for advice, please be cautious at some of the Cyprus clinics as they seem to want to replace 3/4 blastocysts and personally I find that pretty irresponsible and worrying.

Do your research to find somewhere you feel comfortable.  Have a look at the DCN website for info. and talk to others on Fertility Friends.  I would really advise maybe a bit of counselling before cycling just in case there are any issues you would like to address before moving on to donor conception.

Best of luck,
Daisy x


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## Redgirl (May 16, 2007)

Hi Daisy

Thank you for the advice.  It is really helpful. I am really concerned about siblings being out there that we do not know about and the protocols are very vague from clinic to clinic.  It is very important to us that we know what happens to any unused embryos.  I am really surprised that this seems to be a little asked question.

It was through a counselling appointment that this really came home to me as I thought there would be the equivalent of the HFEA in all European clinics but there isn't.  I was also very concerned that some clinics seem to offer sex selection which to me is a step too far.

Your thoughts match my feelings too - so thank you for replying.

Red
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## mierran (Apr 24, 2009)

Daisy - which clinics will openly admit to giving away embryos without permission,  after trying to contact couples twice? It's something I have never heard anything reliable about from clinics or from eg anyone on here talking about their clinic.

if it is happening,  it should be highlighted as it means embryos without screened donors are being offered as most couples won't have been karyotyped. This would also raise some questions as to whether all donors at those clinics are being properly screened.


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Hi Mierran,

These are just Spanish clinics, and I haven't yet investigated other clinics, but it is possible it happens elsewhere.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/7902308/Hundreds-of-IVF-embryos-donated-without-consent.html

http://www.institutmarques.com/embryo-adoption.html

http://www.fertilityclinicsabroad.com/ivf-abroad/ivf-spain/

D xxx

/links


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## mierran (Apr 24, 2009)

I am very glad I didn't have treatment in Spain!

I hope the women and couples who are recipients of those embryos are made aware of lack of screening.

scary stuff.


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## Redgirl (May 16, 2007)

Thanks for the links daisyg - very interesting.  Mulberry-gal thanks for reply.  My issue is that unlike in the UK where the HFEA monitor everything - there is no organisation like this in Spain and all other EU countries.  So you can only trust their word that the have not given embryos to other couples.  There is no organisation checking them.  I feel a bit mistrustful.  You obviously had a clinic you felt comfortable with - could I ask whish one it was? as we are thinking of using donor eggs and overseas it is much cheaper, but I'd want to feel comfortable.

Red
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## tillyturner (Nov 10, 2014)

Hi Redgirl

I have just completed an DE cycle abroad and have 10 blastocyst embryos stored (thank fully I am nealry 6weeks pregnant so will hopefully only look to use them in the future for direct brothers or sisters) I too was worried about this when i looked into treatment abroad, the clinic I used is government monitored and all donors and recipients have to registered with the government for any issues in the future - it is anonymous donation so you cannot get the donors details or them yours. They are also ISO certified. 

As for my embryos they will continue to store them for me and I will pay each year for the storage, if they cannot contact me (they said they continue to try monthly for up to 6mths) or I do not contact them after the year is up they will wait approx 6mths if in that time they cannot contact me or I do not contact them they destroy the embryos - they are not allowed to give to anybody else by law! so this put my mind at rest.

So in short there are good clinics out there that are monitored and regulated but you just need to do your homework  

I hope this helped but totally agree it is scary what some clinics do and dont make it clear!

Wishing you the very best of luck 
Hugs Tilly xx


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## Redgirl (May 16, 2007)

HI Tilly - thank you for the reply.  Your clinic sounds very good.  I am concerned about unused embryo's so I'd need assurance that I can determine their future, so a clinic that can reassure me like the one you went to would be ideal.  I'd hate not to know that there might be children out there that were genetically my husbands!

Congratulations on your pregnancy too!!

Red
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## tillyturner (Nov 10, 2014)

Exactly how I felt!

Thank you for the congratulations, its early days but am hopefully going to be ok 

Wishing you loads of success too xx


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