# Here I go!!!



## Gizzle (Jan 13, 2007)

Hello girls. 

Like most newcomers, I've been reading these postings for quite a while now and have only just got the courage up to make my first post.  Gosh, it's quite daunting... I've spent all morning trying just to work out how to edit my own profile and upload a picture of my cat!! So, here I am.  Hello. As my signature says, I am (this bit hurts) 42 years old and have been thoroughly reckless and irresponsible with all my good egg producing years.  To be honest, I've never really had any maternal urges that weren't satisfied by the cat, but now we're realising that we'd love to have a small family (too late for a football team) in the future.  
So, after a good while of trying and nothing happening, we started investigating and found out some not so very positive news.  Upshot is that we're under Dr Alison Taylor at the Lister (who seems v nice) and I'm going for my first scan on 12 Feb.  I've had FSH levels ranging from 8.8-12.8 and HSG results were clear (isn't that a horrid test?).  I realise I'm so ignorant of the process - I don't even know whether I've been prescribed the short or long protocol.  I've started taking Microgynon 30 for one cycle before starting on the IVF drugs so feel like I must be on the longest ever protocol.  I don't think I'll be starting the drugs for a while yet... All of which makes me panic slightly because of my age. 
So, this feels like our last-chance saloon.  We've been advised to have ICSI, blastocyst transfer & cell screening (if appropriate). DH adamant that we'll only do this once so it feels like we're literally putting all our eggs into this basket   (that's an old joke, right??).  Needless to say, hugely expensive but one great break has been that our GP has agreed to pay for this cycle, which was great news.
So, now I'm feeling excited, nervous, a little bit tearful (already!). I wake up in the middle of the night wondering if we're doing the right thing.  After all, we have a great life together and a lovely home - I feel I'm doing this for the sad person I might be in the future.  Also, with the odds so massively stacked against us, I feel like we're inviting failure into our lives. That will be hard to deal with.
I feel like I've been playing down how much this means to me with other people (even to DH), so that I'll be able to rise above the inevitable failure (is that a neg thought, or wot?!).  But I'm really hoping it will work... I've given up an amazing career opportunity in favour of a far less stressful short term contract with people I know and trust very well and with whom I can be very open. Anyway, I would love to have some IVF buddies.  I have good, close supportive friends but nobody who has been through it. 
Look forward to hearing from you.
Gizzle x


----------



## janeup (Jan 15, 2005)

Dear Gizzle
Welcome to Fertility Friends.  Your story rings so true for many of us here and I know you will find some friends to chat to.  IVF in whatever circumstances is a daunting process, made so much worse by the fact that we cannot openly discuss it with friends and colleagues.  I have felt so alone during this journey but the wonder of it is my DH and I have become closer.  We have been trying to conceive for several years now and are now going down the egg donor route.  I already have a daughter by another relationship. Anyway, the thing is whatever you chose to do, we are here to support you by being non judgemental, helpful and will give advice when needed.  I don’t know how I would have survived without FF.  

I went to the Lister too and found them amazing.  I just think at 45 I would have been throwing money away by using my own eggs. I think I had a 1% chance! 

But at 42 you are still young…and  I think you should give it one go and set yourself a limit for how far you expect to go to have a family with your partner.  

Good luck with your cycle – when do you start?  I am down regging at the moment and hope to be cycling in March.  It’s a tough game this lark! 
Jane


----------



## pip7 (May 5, 2006)

Hi Gizzle and Jane

Mind if I join you?  Like you Gizzle I've been reading for a while but I've only recently started posting, on the IUI threads so far.  I wanted to join here because so much of what you said sounded so familiar to me.

I'm 41 (and I know that probably sounds young to you - I now look at 40 year olds with envy), and DH and I have been together for most of our adult lives.  For some reason it just didn't really occur to me to have a family.  And when I did think about it, I was both convinced that I would never be able to have any so why bother, AND that I would have absolutely no problem so it would be OK to leave it a while longer.  So here I am with so many regrets that I know I shouldn't dwell on.

We had 3 IUIs, all negative, before suddenly feeling that we had been wasting even more time and we should have had IVF immediately.  We've now had 2 IVFs, again both negative, the second one with ICSI as we wanted to do PGD.  In the end we only had 3 embryos both times, so put them all back.

We've also had 4 miscarriages, all naturally conceived.  We're now in a position where we know that fertilization probably happens, so we suspect the problem is with implanation.  So this time we went back to IUI, and I'm nearing the end of my 2ww.  I'm trying not to think too much about it, as I have a tendency to think quite negatively, I think probably to protect myself.

I've never taken the pill before a cycle.  Do you know why they do that at the Lister?  (I am an ARGC patient.)  We're wondering, if this doesn't work, if we should change clinics, but I think we'd want somewhere that specialises in recurrent miscarriages as well as infertility.  I know St Mary's has a specialist clinic, but I don't know much about the Lister.

Anyway, best of luck to both of you, and look forward to hearing how you get on.

Pip xx


----------



## Gizzle (Jan 13, 2007)

Hello Pip and Jane
How lovely to get your replies... I'm so excited!
It's great to know that there are other people who are sharing the same experience, but also having the same thoughts.  For a long time, I've really felt like I'm on the outside, peering in on others as they make their life choices and get on with it.  For some reason, that never really happened for me and I happily meandered through my life, and then suddenly, BANG! I was 40! Still not quite sure how it happened, especially as the last couple of years have really flown by.  I think it might have something to do with being the youngest sibling, and having a very young outlook on life.  One friend put it rather bluntly when she said that it didn't matter how young I looked on the outside, it's the inside that counts when dealing with fertility issues.  Anyway, that's all behind us now and we can only move forwards...
Jane - it's good to know that you and your DH have become closer throughout all of this.  I hope I'll be able to say the same, whatever our outcome.  We're definitely going to give it this one go but I predict there might be stormy waters ahead as DH absolutely adamant that this is our one and only go.  We'll see... And bless you Jane for calling me young!  I emailed my Dr at the Lister today to ask about what my timeframe might be.  I guess that might be quite a naiive question at this stage - I haven't even had my first scan!  But I'm desperate to get started NOW!  I hope that I am cycling by March but maybe that's too optimistic.  Anyway, I'll let you know - maybe we'll get to be cycle buddies.
Hello Pip you young thing - how I wish I was 41! Thanks for your sharing your feelings, it all sounds so familiar.  Try not to think too negatively, I'm most definitely a glass half empty girl myself and it's probably one of my worst traits - it infuriates my DH.  This must be a really nail-biting time for you - I wish you everything you wish for yourself, you deserve some good news.  
Funnily enough, the Lister wasn't on our shortlist of clinics - we were under the Whittington (our local hosp) for initial exploratory examinations and the specialist there said that the Lister was really the only clinic worth considering given our age and problems.  They do seem very nice there, but hopefully you won't need another clinic. 
One thing I wanted to ask - do you think it's worth us shelling out for expensive vitamins? I'm already taking Folic acid but is it too late now to make a difference to sperm production?
Gizzle x


----------



## anita.e.t.p (Nov 11, 2005)

Hi Gizzle,

I will be 42 in June and am just starting my 2nd ivf,short protocol this time.  Time does tick away but there are so many girls on this site that have had positive outcomes,so theres always a chance 
We had 4 iuis before our ivf and i must admit i think this will be our last attempt at ivf,like you say you have to draw a line somewhere but it is hard,you do get sucked in to this and there is always a what if?

You are so lucky your gp as agreed to pay for some treatment,ours as a cut off age of 38,so it as been very expensive and that adds to the stress but i am lucky to be healthy and our only drawback is age 

Pip, i have had 4 iuis and the forth resulted in a mmc at 9 weeks.  We did not know anything was wrong until i went for second scan,no bleeding,,pains. My cons said it was propably age and that it just stopped,so it was not getting pregnant or implantation just the fact you get fewer eggs as you get older and poorer quality.  He said it was not worth forking out extra money for blasting or pgd.Did you have your mc early on?. I am now on my 2nd ivf and hoping it works but a little bit scared if it does?. Lots of    on your 2ww

Janeup,i was ready to go down the de route and had just contacted a clinic in Poland when we got the phone call saying we could go ahead,if this does not work will def be thinking of going abroad,although we have donor sperm and have had to order enough for 5 attempts so maybe iui but it is how far do you keep going?.Would be interested to see what you think of Spain?

Gizzle,i take a pro-natel vit tablets and accupuncture,good for stress .  Zta West as a fantastic book on everything you need to know,

Anita.xx


----------



## pip7 (May 5, 2006)

Gizzle, I'm embarrassed to say that I do spend huge amounts of money on supplements, and I'm probably a bit faddy, depending on what I've read and who I've consulted with.

I originally went to 'Foresight Pre-Conceptual care' - they seem to have a high success rate by doing hair analyses and providing supplements for deficiencies.  You end up taking hundreds.
We then saw the nutritionist at the Zita West clinic who did reduce the number of pills we were taking, but it was still quite a lot (I thought I might have immune issues - I'm still not certain if I do or don't...but I still take a variety of supplements for that).  My DH was recommended a number - mainly potent antioxidants including vitamin C and zinc, and pycnogenol.  My acupuncturist has also recommended that he takes L-arginine and L-carnitine, which he will do if we get a negative this time round.  (DH's sperm isn't brilliant, but good enough to do IUI and IVF, and it has improved).  There's also some evidence that eating organic food improves the sperm quality.

As for me, as well as the immune stuff, I take a good prenantal multivitamin and mineral, essential fatty acids, a variety of 'green' foods (particularly wheatgrass as it's supposed to lower FSH), and a few months ago I took a deep breath and started taking DHEA (supposed to improve egg quality; the Centre for Human Reproduction in the US is doing a study).

I'm worried that I'm just sounding desperate and neurotic - I guess I probably am.  We've been TTC for 4 years now, and probably with each failure I end up doing a bit more research.  I'm really not sure what works and what doesn't, but I find it difficult to not do everything that I can.  (I've also tried a variety of alternative treatments, but I now limit myself to an acupuncturist and a reflexologist, both of whom I find really supportive).  Money obviously is a big problem, as we're funding everything ourselves, so we're very much in debt, but we can't quite bring ourselves to stop yet.  I'm really not a very good advert for this, am I?

Jane, how are you finding the down-regging?  I'd be really interested to know more about your experiences of going down the donor egg route.  I know there's lots of information out there, but I think it makes a big difference hearing about someone's experiences, and being able to respond.

About to post when realised Anita had beaten me to it.  Welcome.

All of my mcs have been early; I was wondering about going down the DE route, but my consultant put me off, saying that there was still time to do that, and that he thought that, although my eggs were getting on a bit, my 'environment' was more the issue.  We had the last mc karyotyped, and it was normal (46XX), so we're still going ahead with my eggs, with other options always at the backs of our minds.

Anyway, all the best of luck - to all of us!

Pip x


----------



## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Hi everyone,

Forgive the barge, but I would just like to add a note of caution reference miscarriages.  It is true that statistically, over 40s are more likely to suffer miscarriage.  BUT given that time is so precious, women in their 40s simply cannot assume that miscarriage is just due to aneuploidy and age.  

I did 3 ivfs with my own eggs consecutively between the ages of 44 and 44.5 (including going to Cornell in NYC for 3rd ivf in order to have all 6 of my embryos replaced).  I got pregnant on each ivf and miscarried all the pregnancies.  I was told it was my age so I moved on to donor egg.  I also miscarried this pregnancy.  I went to my GP with a list of tests from Dr. Beer and George Ndukwe at Care Notts.  I also went to St. Mary's Recurrent Miscarriage Clinic and they managed my medication and did further tests.  I was found to have 2 blood clotting disorders (Factor V Leiden and MTHFR) and some auto immune symptoms.  I was prescribed steroids, clexane and extra folic acid and b vits for my final donor embryo cycle and finally gave birth to twins last October.

Here is a list of the basic miscarriage/infertility tests, many of which your GP can do.  I would really recommend having as many as these done as possible, as you can never assume your age is responsible for miscarriage.

Pip - Forgive me, but from my experience it is not good news that your miscarriage was normal as it indicates that there may well be something else going on besides abnormal chromosomes and warrants further investigation.  Also, 46xx indicates a female which can also be where they have tested your tissue and not the embryo's, so it is not an exact science sadly.

Certainly, after 4 miscarriages, testing should definitely be investigated.  Most clinics and GPs would recommend testing after 3 and even 2 miscarriages at our age.

Please forgive the strong views, but I have spent 3 years researching this and it is one of my big regrets that my problems weren't discovered in time for my pregnancies to be saved.  However, I am of course totally delighted to have my babies, it's just that I believe giving ourselves the best chance over 40 is so important.

Here is a list of tests.  There is more information on the investigations and immunology thread.

Wishing you all the very best.

Daisy
x


Karotyping for DH and you (tests for any genetic issues)
Sperm assays and investigations


Insulin resistance (fasting glucose test)
Thyroid levels (TSH)
Anti Nuclear Antibodies
Anti thyroglobulin
Anti-thyroid antibodies
Full Blood count
ESR (Erythrocyte Sedimentation rate)
RA (Rheumatoid Arthritis)

BLOOD CLOTTING PANEL (Thrombophilia panel)

Serum Immunoglobulins (IgG, IgM and IgA) 
Activated Protein C Resistance  
Factor V Leiden genotype 
Anti Phospholipid Antibodies 
Lupus Anticoagulant 
Anti Cardiolipin Antibodies 
Plasma Free Protein S level 
Factor II G20210A 
Prothrombin Gene Mutation 
Antithrombin III M
Fibrinogen level 
APTT (Activited Partial Thromboplastin Time) 
APTR

MTHFR (methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase) and connected with this is measurement of your homocysteine levels  (The GP may not be able to do this one)

BACTERIAL

Mycoplasma, Ureaplasma (Chlamydia and any other bacterial infections).
Bacterial vaginosis
Varicella Zoster antibodies

More controversial and needs to be done by specialist consultant:-

NK Cells
Cytokines, TH1, TH2,
DQ Alpha etc

Extra progesterone e.g. Gestone may also be needed.  Get progesterone levels checked at the same time as any beta tests to make sure you have adequate levels (especially if you have had a cycle where you have started bleeding before the end of the 2ww).


----------



## pip7 (May 5, 2006)

Hi Daisy

Thanks for the info.  We have had the majority of these tests done, including some of the more controversial ones.  With my first IVF I had humira before starting, and then clexane, aspirin, steroids and gestone after embryo transfer; with my second IVF, and my most recent pregnancy, I had clexane, aspirin, steroids and IVIG.  With this IUI I'm just on aspirin, clexane and gestone.  I've never had the high dose folic acid.  I think one of the problems is that none of the tests are ever really conclusive or consistent.

We're thinking about having our mycoplasma and ureaplasma checked but because these tend to cause later miscarriage we're not convinced.

We haven't been to a miscarriage clinic, although we did go to the one at Zita West's clinic, but of course they're very limited in what they can do and I'm not sure it was worth the money we paid for it.

Thanks for your list, and I'll have a good look through it to see if there's anything else I'm missing.  I would probably try to contact Dr Beer if he were still alive, but...

Would you recommend St Mary's as the best place to go?  I've heard that Care Notts is good, and also the service in Birmingham.

Pip x


----------



## ZenaE (Dec 2, 2004)

Hi Pip,
Just a question for you, which service in Birmingham are you referring to ?
ZenaE


----------



## pip7 (May 5, 2006)

Somewhere called the Birmingham Pregnancy and Loss Clinic.  Have you heard of it?  Pip


----------



## drownedgirl (Nov 12, 2006)

Dr ******* at the Miscarriage Clinic in London does a lot of these immunology tests, cost is about £800 IIRC.


----------

