# Aged 44 and told we have a 1% chance...



## LovelyLady

Hello all of you

... of me getting pregnant. It would be be ICSI. DH and I got this news last night at our first consultation. My thoughts are that 1% is more than 0% so I want to try. Had some bloodtests too, to test FSH - getting results next week.

I would appreciate any positive messages and good news stories people want to send about this - you all know what it feels like.

Fingers crossed  

LovelyLady


----------



## Ellie.st

Dear Lovelylady

You have to be realistic about the chances of success as you get older but I personally agree with you that  any chance is better than no chance if you really want to give it a go. For our last IVF cycle, we were told that we had only a few per cent chance of success (we had never been quoted higher than about a ten per cent chance with IVF) but we were lucky enough to get a BFP.  We felt that a few per cent was much better than the pretty-much zero per cent we had after 9.5 years ttc without any success whatsoever (we were unexplained).  We also felt that we should give it our best shot, or else we would always be wondering "what if ...?".

Age is definitely a factor but there are other variables (including luck, I think) which also come into play, and there are examples of over-40s on this board including myself who have been lucky enough to get BFPs. If you want to give it a go, my advice would be to go for it - have a realistic attitude but go for it nevertheless.  You never know - it's all a bit of a lottery, and it could be you ...    

Good luck.

Best wishes

Ellie


----------



## Jo

Firstly Welcome to FF  

I want to wish you all the luck in the world.

You have the right frame of mind, which is fantastic 

As Ellie has said, its like the lottery, but if your not in it, you don't have a chance 

Keep us informed of what happens 

Love Jo
x x


----------



## sandee2002

Hy Lovely Lady,

The fsh test isnt that accurate about your "chances". I am awaiting test results for AMH. It is new test and is very accurate regarding ovarian reserve. If I were you I would ask for this test. I had an fsh result of 15.1 the doc told me there was nothing i could do to bring it down. I did!!!! Took sweet wheatgrass, agnus cactus, dhea, tested on day one instead of day 3. My fsh level was the lowest its ever been 5.1!!!!  Good luck.

luf
sandy


----------



## hickson

Hi Sandy.

Sorry to crash this post, but what is DHEA please?

and where did you have your AMH done?..and if you dont mind..how much did it cost?

Hickson x


----------



## sandee2002

dhea is supposed to reverse age of egg
got my amh done at gcrm at glasgow..........just found out today my level was less than 1
i cant have my longed for baby......devastated


----------



## Joan

poor dear Sandee,

that is terrible news. is that an absolute definite??
sending some hugs for you and some hope, as, you never know...    

love from joan xxxx


----------



## sandee2002

thanks joan

yes its definative........the cost hickson was £180

sandy


----------



## MrsBunny

Hi Sandee

So sorry to hear your news. Sending you big hugs  .

You need to take some time out to relax and take this news in. I know that is easier said than done, especially because of your age. I had to accept the same situation (I am 45) earlier this year, although I didn't have the AMH test. It was really difficult. We are now going to try DE treatment abroad. Have you thought about this at all? We knew it existed but hadn't looked into it at all until we realised that we had such a slim chance of treatment working with my own eggs. I expect you are the same. At first I couldn't get my head around having a child by donor egg, but the more research I did, the better I felt about it, especially hearing other peoples stories.

Hope you don't think I'm trying to persuade you into thinking about this - it definitely isn't for everyone - just thought I'd share it with you seeing as I was in a similar position to you and my time was running out.

Take care xxxxx


----------



## nuala

Hi,

Not sure of all your details but I was told about the minute chances of getting pregnant age 44.  We had two rounds of IVF which didn't work and were given the wrinkly egg talk and advised to go for DE or to try for our own little miracle.

We did look into De which I think is a great opportunity though costly and has to be done abroad.  However we kept trying for our own little miracle and added chinese herbs to the acupuncture and within 4/5 months I was pregnant for the first time in my life at age 45 and 4 months.  Just turned 46 yesterday and little one is due to arrive on Nov 29.  Miracles can happen and 70% of stats are incorrect!!

Nuala


----------



## sandee2002

well done nuala,

thanks for all the support, will have to re evaluate our next move......not going to give up without a fight.....
might go for acupuncture and do all we can. I am thinking of asking for another amh in a couple of months as i heard someone eles had a negative result then 3 months later re tested........shes now pregnant!!!!! if this doent happen perhaps donor eggs
but im have a right time of it to get my head around donor eggs.....


sandy


----------



## eams

Sandee,
I also had my AMH tested at GCRM and it came out at 1.0. They are happy for us to give IVF a go but want us to be realistic about chance of success. I am 43 so we have no illusions about our chances. What was your result exactly?
I didn't know that it was possible for it to increase again - they told me that it was just a downward slope with no chance of getting any better. It's still just a measure of the ovarian reserve and so there is always a chance that there are a good egg left among the few remaining ones. I'm just puzzled that they gave you such a definitive "you will never have your own child" answer.


----------



## sandee2002

hy eams

think my amh was 7.9. There is a posting on here someone had a "bad" result. Retested 3 months later and it was a positive outcome....she now has a baby. Well they certainly indicated that it would be futile to waste money on further icsi.
Still dont know which way to go......in fact how accurate are these findings they said at one time fsh was indicative of poor ivf outcomes....now they say that it is not the definative..........


----------



## anjela

1% is better than non percent, remember getting pregnant is a lottery anyway.......


----------



## Alipanah

Dear Lovely Lady and all,
      1% is better than nothing, I am 45 years old, MY FHS is normal (6) everything is fine, last IFV that I've done I had 3 eggs but they couldn't collect it. We've talked with consular, the most important thing in our life is we shouldn't feeling up set, I think we need to have hope and try best and make a good decision to cope and carry. IVF processes is so expensive and each time when we are un successful it is like felling down. I am carry with DHEA and finger cross to have more eggs for next IVF. however my DR said still I have not more chance but he suggested to try it and it said when he was in US that research section believe it works. I am going  to carry with that if I had more than 5 eggs I will carry other wise I will cancell to carry on. I am hoping to work and I am going to Jim and swimming as well. next couple month If I am successful I will right to every body my experience.

Big hug for every body
Good Luck for all
Arefeh


----------



## dcon_blue

Hello ladies

I thought I'd post a reply I got from the consultant at the Reprofit clinic in Brno, the Czech Republic ...

"Thanks for your email, FSH 29 in day 3 of your cycle is high and to try to conceive with your own eggs van bring you success in about 2-5 % comparing to donated eggs (50-60%). But if you want to try - I have nothing against it. But mind that you will be asked to use around 400 IU of FSH daily for at least 5 days.

Good news considering your cycle, yes you can have all test you mentioned done here at Reprofit"

Now to me (and I maybe grasping at straws here) 2-5% is a chance I'm willing to take  Also, the treatment costs according to a recent patient (including all meds and ICSI etc) was £1800. I dunno ... but is this cheap enough to have two goes @ Reprofit for every one here? Just a thought.

dcon_blue


----------



## Alipanah

Hello Dear Ladies,
It is my second try for IVF. I am 46 after I am using 4 Month DHEA I start injection last night I should go for scan next week to find out is there enough eggs for collection or not? last time I had 3 eggs and they couldn't collect, they said we nee 5-6 eggs. If that medicine works I will let all of you know to produce young and more eggs. nothing I can do I am try best and pray.

All the Best for all of you.



dcon_blue said:


> Hello ladies
> 
> I thought I'd post a reply I got from the consultant at the Reprofit clinic in Brno, the Czech Republic ...
> 
> "Thanks for your email, FSH 29 in day 3 of your cycle is high and to try to conceive with your own eggs van bring you success in about 2-5 % comparing to donated eggs (50-60%). But if you want to try - I have nothing against it. But mind that you will be asked to use around 400 IU of FSH daily for at least 5 days.
> 
> Good news considering your cycle, yes you can have all test you mentioned done here at Reprofit"
> 
> Now to me (and I maybe grasping at straws here) 2-5% is a chance I'm willing to take  Also, the treatment costs according to a recent patient (including all meds and ICSI etc) was £1800. I dunno ... but is this cheap enough to have two goes @ Reprofit for every one here? Just a thought.
> 
> dcon_blue


----------



## dcon_blue

Good luck with the DHEA Alipanah  I'd be really interested to hear how you get on ... we're in similar boats.

Incidental have you come across this site ... http://www.thefertilesoul.com/Diagnosis/FSH/ ... would be interested in what you think about this plan of action.

dcon_blue

/links


----------



## Cotswold Girl

Good luck Alipanah. I hope your scan goes well next week    

CG xxx


----------



## Alipanah

Thanks reiki,
I will let you know if DHEA works for me?

All the Best



Cotswold Girl said:


> Good luck Alipanah. I hope your scan goes well next week
> 
> CG xxx


----------



## tinsy

hi
we were told exactly same thing a couple of months ago (44 and 1% chance) and told our options were donor eggs or adoption. Unfortunately cant afford to go down the donor egg route. 
we are going to try chinese herbs and accupuncture for 6 months. Have had first appointment with a very lovely understanding practitioner just waiting for my cycle to reappear and then can start on herbs.
my fsh is 16.9 and periods have just gone haywire!!!! but will give it a go. 

Have had fsh checked at GPs but dont want to keep going back is there any home tests that are available and also how best to check for ovulation is it with urine sticks or temperature method. 

Am trying to keep positive   and send good luck to all


----------



## Alipanah

Dear All,
Thanks you all, My second IVF was unsuccessful, again I had 2 eggs and one tiny egg they couldn't collected, I wondering if there is egg why they couldn't collect. My FSH is normal and everything is fine. Dr said it is because of your age ( I am 46 ) I am thinking about egg donation from my sister she is got 2 lovely children 9 and 2 years old but she is 42 I am not sure Dr. will accept or not. Also I am thinking about open my blocked tube ( again it is risk because I have chorone disease).

Thanks all of you for your kindness
Arefeh



dcon_blue said:


> Good luck with the DHEA Alipanah  I'd be really interested to hear how you get on ... we're in similar boats.
> 
> Incidental have you come across this site ... http://www.thefertilesoul.com/Diagnosis/FSH/ ... would be interested in what you think about this plan of action.
> 
> dcon_blue
> 
> [red]This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites[/red]


----------



## Cotswold Girl

Arefeh,

So sorry to see things didn't work out for you. Sending you a big cyber hug    

Good luck with whatever you decide.

CG xxxx


----------



## nikkis

hi all
I am 44 and TTC after Donor IVF, Donor FET and IVF with my eggs..

Nuala
am so impressed that you were successful with chinese medicine..do you know what you took?

We are off to Instituto Marques soon but would be lovely to save all that money and succeed naturally!

Nikki


----------



## sharon919

Hi Ladies

I am 45 and living in Egypt, and currently on 4th IVF try, the first ended before egg collection, and the 2nd was 
with a very bad clinic, who only produced one fertilised egg, and then we changed to a lovely clinic in Cairo, who although they state the percentage is so low at about 1.5%, the staff are so positive.
On our first go we retrieved 5 eggs, of which 3 were excellent quality and implanted but did not stay with me.
On this cycle i have 2 eggs implanted, and currently on day 6 of the dreaded 2ww  
But...........I believe having read all the postings that there is hope out there for us more mature ladies, and am keeping fingers, legs and everything else crossed and as they say here 'en sha ahllah', god willing we willhave our BFP in a weeks time.
I would like to wish all of you the best of luck and hope there are lots of     for you all

Sharon


----------



## Sally62

Hi I am Sally new to this site
Aged 45 and tried IUI aged 43 last year for a few months but no luck. Was also told by Clinic once I reached 44 about the 1% chance and that I should think about donor eggs. This sounds like a bog standard clinic response....

As I work abroad in Africa where no treatment is available, I am planning leaving my job in Feb to be able to have UK based treatment for at least a few months, but no idea at this point if my FSH levels are sufficient to warrant continued IUI and the idea of going on to donor egg treatment about which I don't yet have much knowledge is pretty scary. I am a single woman (was previously married and had a couple of miscarriages in early pregnancy in my early 40s) and I have been finding this is all quite stressful on my own. So grateful there are sites like this...

Sending positive energy to all those of you out there wishing and waiting, from Sunny Africa.


----------



## Miranda7

Hi there!

My AMH was 0.69 in May, and I've just got preggers with ICSI, using sperm extracted by PESA. My FSH is normal though - go figure. It's possible!

I don't understand how they've given you a 1% chance when they don't even know your FSH yet, Lovely Lady?

I think that's a peculiar practice to give someone odd like that! It would be like me betting on a horse with no form, just because I'd seen it in the stables!

Don't let the baskets grind you down.

xxxx


----------



## nikkis

hi girls
Im glad there are a few people on this thread..lets keep it going!!

Sally Im 44 but am going to Instituto Marques in Barcelona...Im not suggesting anything to you but just to tell you that at my clinic its not unusual for ladies to have donor eggs and/or sperm and I know of single ladies who go there..maybe you just may consider it

I dont think its a cheap option but after several attempts I decided that I have a better chance with donor eggs, less chance of m/c and less chance of any chromosomal disorders..to be honest having donor eggs does not phase me personally.. we lost our only child 2 years ago..Josh was 16 and I think in a strange way it would be easier for me to have a baby which didnt look the spitting image of him

I can however understand why everyone would prefer their own eggs..maybe Im just trying to justify to myself that for me personally its unlikely to succeed after so long

Oh well, off to cover my grey hairs with a bit of blonde!!!


----------



## matti

Hi Sandy

I also got my AMH results from GCRM in November, they came out at 0.4. I also was devastated and I've never had a good night's sleep since.
They have told me they won't treat me without using DE and added me to the waiting list, currently 18 months wait. I'm still not sure about using this method, as I want to try with my own eggs (if i have any) .  Even if it fails, it means I've tried ABSOLUTELY everything.
It niggles me sometimes, I think DE are offered too readily when there still may be some chance/hope of successfully using your own. What do you think of the GCRM team? I completely respect their medical knowledge etc but I'm worried that they are so keen to keep their stats high that they offer DE too readily. They know best but they are NOT emotionally attached.
The 1st nurse I spoke to told me that as my results were less than 1, I had no hope. I called back later in the day (distraught) and spoke to another nurse, she told me that my AMH does not necessarily mean you cannot conceive naturally, it is just a marker of how you would respond to IVF treatment. 
This gave me a flicker of hope, so I'm off to get DHEA, zinc, selenium, L-arginine.DON'T GIVE UP.
As I have a year or so to wait for DE that gives me plenty of time to seriously try before I make up my mind.

Matti xxxxxx


----------



## nikkis

hi Matti
Im interested that youre thinking of DHEA..do you know much about it?  Ive been thinking of taking it alongside in IVF with my own eggs
Nikki


----------



## sandee2002

Hy Matti,

My amh was 0.79. I am now 46. I have been taking DHEA for the past 4 months. DHEA reverses the ageing process of eggs. I am off to Jinemed (istanbul) on the 20th Dec. If this doesnt work then its donor eggs for us.
Jinemed are willing to treat me, they did ask me to go for a follicular scan to see if I had many follicles and my fsh was 5.1.  Miranda went to Jinemed and is now pregnant. 

sandy


----------



## matti

Hi Nikki

It is a steriod (sounds scarey) and it is supposed to reverse ageing process. I've heard it can reduce FSH levels and improve quality of eggs.It can be bought online www.agestop.com from USA.
I'm a bit dubious but Ive read the benefits can far outweigh the side effects.  I really dont know how long you can take it for without it becoming harmful.  Anyone out there know ?

Matti xxx

/links


----------



## nikkis

thanks Matti
Ive heard of iut and what harm can it do..worst that can happen is that it doesnt work..good luck with it
Nikki xx


----------



## mashie

hi girls - just done a long post elsewhere on dhea -- 
have a look at CHR new york website - they are testing it - you can have a phone consult for approx $300 if you want - i took 75 mg , for 2 1/2 months and got more eggs than last  2 cycles - apparently best to take for4-  6 months - you can get tested for your dhea levels before you take it - research it as its not for all people but well worth a look 

mashie xxxx


----------



## suzie.b

Hi girls

I took DHEA for 2.5 months - it didn't work for me - I only got three follicles.  But who knows, I may have only got one without it.  I cancelled the tx and went on to donor eggs.  I thought it was worth a try.  I haven't found anything that says you have to stop after so long, just not to take it while pg.

Good luck with trying it - hope it works for you .

love
Suzie
x


----------



## Miranda7

Just to say that DHEA isn't really believed to increase your follicles - just the quality of the eggs inside the,

In my experience that's what happens anyway!


----------



## Linda_M

Hi, landies, 
This is my firstpost in FF. Can I joy in. I am 44, had a m/c at 43 and a failed IVF recently.

Nuala, I am so impressed about your story. Could you let me have your acupuncturist name and address in Harley Street, because I would like to have a last try before go for the DE route.

Linda_M


----------



## Jo

Linda

Welcome to FF  I hope you find lots of helpful info on here, and some friends 

Good Luck with your treatment 

Jo
x x


----------



## Miranda7

Hey you lot!

Here's a link to an article that seems a huge recommendation for the use of DHEA

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=18071895&ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Basically, 89 couples where the woman had diminished ovarian reserve took DHEA and 101 couples didn't. Of the 89 28 per cent got pregnant and of the 101 11 per cent got pregnant.

Hope that helps.

xxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## bottleofwater

i can't understand how you can reverse age on an egg that is biologically 45 years old, I am 44 so my eggs are 45 due to them growing in uteru months before I was born  So how can you change that? Also do women with PCOS have more DHEA in them.  I would try it but I am worried that it would make something worse rather than better.  I have just had my 4th miscarriage (3rd in a year), so it is definately egg quality with me and I would really love to reverse my damaged egg quality.


----------



## Miranda7

It's not recommended for women with PCOS, but I don't know why. It would be worth finding out why that was contraindicated, definitely, then you could make an informed decision.

I heard that DHEA was elevated in women with PCOS, but as you're a bit older perhaps that would no longer hold true? You can have a blood test to see how high you are naturally in DHEA, but I don't know who would do that.

I tell you what I did when I took it - I took the full 75mg dose for a week, then got my GP to test me for raised testosterone. Based on that (given that i didn't know what my testosterone was before) I rather unscientifically dropped the dose to 50mg a day.

I hope that kind of vague info helps. If you can get a blood test for DHEA that would give you a good indication about whether it could be right for you.

xxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## bottleofwater

Thanks Miranda, I will look into having a test.  It is hard getting all the info on these things. xx


----------



## Miranda7

It is, incredibly hard. I'm so sorry to hear about your miscarriages. Have they put you on Clexane and baby aspirin, etc? Extra progesterone support?

xxx


----------



## Miranda7

Hmmmn. A quick Google indicates that it's a thyroid test, so your GP may do it for you?


----------



## Miranda7

This is quite interesting, but doesn't mention fertility...

http://dhea-info.co.uk/index.html


----------



## bottleofwater

Hi Miranda, I am awaiting one more blood test, most my blood tests are normal. But seeing if I have something to do with the sticky blood as I always get a subchronic bleed as well which indicates I might need some blood thinners.  I self prescribe aspirin.  But the way my last pregnancy went it seemed chromosmal as it grew too slowly and low hcg.  Thanks for your kind thoughts and congratulations on your success.  xx


----------



## Miranda7

I guess the good thing is that you CAN get pregnant. I know that might not seem much compensation at the moment but that's a wonderful start.

I can't believe they didn't do these tests after the second miscarriage, really, but hopefully they'll get you on loads of other drugs next time - is it prednislone you should have, too?

Clexane, all these drugs come to mind as ones people have been given after two m/c. I think the only way to test whether the embryos are definitely poor quality or have chromosomal abnormalities are very expensive tests - is it CGH or something like that? The girls on the multiple-cyclers board would help with that. It's a thread within the ICSI general chit-chat bit.

God, I really hope it's good news for you in 2008. No one should have to go through that.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## bottleofwater

hi Miranda

I am a private patient, so I have to find the resources myself, my gyno just thinks it's chromosomal, I opted for medically managed miscarriage to avoid a d&c so it won't be tested anyway.  I have had one trisomy 13.  PCOS does give more chromosomal pregnancies anyway due to overipening of eggs. Plus I do have the age factor.  My last consultant is testing for sticky blood, I had thought that test was done already, but he said it is higher in pcos as well.

Your always so sweet and optimistic thanks xx


----------



## Miranda7

It's hideous, isn't it? All that money. For all that heartache. We did it cheaper by going abroad, but I appreciate it's not for everyone. I know the Jinemed in Turkey does PGD and all sorts of immune testing as well, so if you're doing this with IVF it might be worth a thought. I don't even know if you're getting pg with IVF or naturally?

My mate has PCOS and has had two miscarriages. She's going to be on a cocktail of drugs next time - she goes to the Lister.

Maybe you could ask her what she's going to be on? Here's her profile: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11160

I can't BELIEVE they've let you have four m/c and not tested for sticky blood. But I guess these things happen.

xxxxxxxxx


----------



## Ann_P

Hi Ladies,

Hope you dont mind me joining in & asking for a little advice?

BottleOfWater - I'm 44 too and have also had some miscarriages, mostly they have been chemical pregnancies (i.e. pos test when AF a week or so late, then AF arrives within a few days). All in the last 3 years. Its so gutting isn't it?

Miranda - Congratulations on your bump! Gives us all hope, I might be quizzing you about Turkey soon!

A scan & x-rays revealed fibroids and I had a laparoscopy and hysteroscopy recently (just investigative). No results given at the time but I have my appointment with the consultant to discuss the op & findings on monday.

I want to be armed with questions, but not sure if there's anything I should be asking that I dont know about. I was told before that all my blood tests were normal. I asked what the FSH level was (as they didnt volunteer any figures) & was told 6, which I'm pleased about. But I've since heard (from this site) that its the AMH level thats more indicative (ovarian reserve?). I'm not sure they did this test for me, so I will ask about it. Does anyone know what the normal range is for AMH, & whats high or low? Is it a straight forward blood test?

I will also ask her if it would help if I take DHEA, (I'm off to Miami on tuesday so will pick some up there, they sell it in nutrition shops).

Does anyone know if there is anything else I should be asking? Any advice greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Ann x


----------



## bottleofwater

hi Ann

Yes it's awful all these false hopes.

Here are the reference range for AMH

Optimal Fertility	28.6 pmol/L ? 48.5 pmol/L
Satisfactory Fertility	15.7 pmol/L ? 28.6 pmol/L
Low Fertility	2.2 pmol/L ? 15.7 pmol/L
Very Low/Undetectable	0.0 pmol/L ? 2.2 pmol/L
High Level	48.5 pmol/L? suspicion of Polycystic Ovarian Disease/Granulosa cell tumours

Also inhibin B is a marker of your fertility.  I had everything explained to me properly by a miscarriage consulatant this week.  He said all three give you the best maker of your fertility.  So its best to read them together.

He also said 70% of all pregnancies are miscarriages which I never realised.  Miranda has shown with her low AMH that pregnancy is still possible.

So it's best if you also make sure you get inhibin B tested.

Thanks for the link Miranda I will look at this as well.

Good luck everyone x


----------



## Ann_P

Thanks B of W!

Thats so helpful - exactly what I needed. I'll come back & let you all know what the cons says on Monday.

By the way, about DHEA.... Around 7 or 8 years ago I used to take Melatonin as everyone (especially Richard & Judy funnily enough!) was raving about its effects on countering jet-lag (I'm a long-haul stewardess). I took it regularly for a few months until our company banned crew from taking it, (we were all on it, its a health supplement NOT a class A drug!...grrr).  Anyway, I remember pulling out a long grey hair from my head and amazingly the inch or so nearest the root was brown! It seemed like a sure sign of the ageing process reversing itself...I was un-greying!

One day the guy in GNC (General Nutrition Centre - Health food shop) in the USA, suggested DHEA. I'd never heard of it before, but he said its similar to Melatonin, only better, & gives you lots of vitality. He did say that he was not supposed to sell it to women of child-bearing age though! I can only think that its because it shouldn't be taken during pregnancy? I wasn't menopausal so didn't dare to take them, although I wasn't ttc then. I'm wondering if I should be getting them now or not, if there are contraindications?

Regards,

Ann x


----------



## bottleofwater

Hi Ann

That is interesting about melatonin, I wonder if that does the trick as well, I do have some of those. Melatonin decreases as we grow old so we are putting back what is depleted when we take them.

I think the contraindications are for PCOS (which I have) I think PCOS people have high levels of it, not young eggs in my case though.  Again I could be wrong but when I google DHEA and this it says I think 50% of patients have high levels. I will try and get a test done.

For AMH you will I think need to do it on cycle day 2.  Hopefully they took the test for you already. Yes love to hear how you get on on Monday.  Good luck. x


----------



## Miranda7

Hello!

Just got back from Christmas shopping. Think I died somewhere along the line, but hey, I'm still walking about....

The AMH is meant to be done any time in your cycle, but the Lister got me to do it day 2/3, I don't know why. Also, you should be aware that there are two different sets of measurements for AMH. The first one is the one bottle gave you, but the one I had, the ideal range was between 2.2 and 6.8 - I was 0.69. If I convert the figure (you need to multiply it by 4.something), my AMH is still crap!.

But it ain't over, even at those levels. I got four eggs both times, but after the DHEA my eggs were noticeably better quality. But so many factors contributed - we had fresh PESA on the day, so the sperm hadn't been frozen, I had been taking loads of other vits (folic, selenium, zinc and L-arginine) and above all I was relaxed and happy on holiday away from my day to dayy stresses.

I think stress has a good deal to do with it, really.

So, the AMH can be done at a number of places - the Lister will do it for £57, but probably will charge you a consult fee too - I was a patient there when I had it.

But you can get it by post too - about £140?

From what I've gleaned by other people's posts I think the AMH is a marker for quantity, which is why it can't be improved on. FSH seems more a marker of quality - mine is normal too.

The AMH is important as it tells them how much FSH drug to give you, however the Jinemed asked me, as my FSH and AMH didn't 'match' to get an antral follicle count on day 3, too.

If you have all these results - and remember that FSH and antrals can change month to month - then a surgeon has every single bit of info they need to judge what to give you drug-wise.

Ann - have you looked at that article about DHEA? Amazing stats. Yet some clinics will still tell you not to take it - I self medicated and I'm so glad I did. The only thing is if you take the pill before a cycle look out for sleeplessness and irritability as the hormones can clash. They did with me but fortunately I had taken the DHEA for long enough beforehand, so i could drop it while taking the pill that last month.

xxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Ann_P

Thanks Miranda,

Phew, it must be tiring doing your xmas shopping with bob the bump! Feet up time for you! Congratulations by the way, I wish you all the best with your pregnancy. I'm really interested in yours because I hope to be copying you!

I did take a look at that DHEA article...very interesting. I'm off to Miami on tuesday, (which should be day 2 of my cycle), so I will buy some there. I guess it would be ok to start taking them on day 3? 

Thats the trouble when things aren't 'approved' here, no professional can really give this kind of advice, so now I'm guessing when to start taking it... 

I don't think there'll be any great hurry to get it approved over here as the pills are so cheap, no-one has any interest...not much money to be made!

Cynical? - moi?

Ann x


----------



## Ann_P

I've just had to put my annual leave request in for next summer. 

We knew we wanted a week in September sometime, so I've just looked up my predicted fertile days (we call it 'horny week' ) for September on fertilityfriend.com (brilliant site!). Went for that week as holidays are supposed to be a good time to conceive (lack of stress   ).

How's that for thinking ahead! I'll be 45 then but I'm not giving up!

Ann x


----------



## Miranda7

Don't believe it! Progesterone was a really cheap drug till they worked out how much we would pay. Up till very recently it was 45p per vial - now it's £4.50 per vial upwards.

As soon as they work out how much people want DHEA the price will go up. Get some now! Oh yes, you are, aren't you?  

Don't worry about what day you start it on - it's not something you have to start any particular time.

Side effects may include an increased sex drive, and more cervical mucus, so yay! I must admit I had started to worry and think I was so depressed I didn't fancy horizontal shenanegans any more, but DHEA put that right. Now I'm on oestrogen tabs, which help immeasurably - I'm back to normal!
I wish I'd known that my depression was brought on by the menopause, but no one would have diagnosed that at 33/34. So goody for infertility! Ahem. 

I would think there would be lots of interest to get it approved over here, actually, as they can make such a huge amount on the mark-up.

We should start a busines selling DHEA!

Gawd, I'd love another holiday now! Just trying to work through to add to my mat leave, but I get very grumpy with no break.   Enjoy yours! Seems liek a great plan to me...

A lady on our poor responder thread was taking DHEA and conceived while downregging, if that helps. She's a doctor, too, so there must be something in it.

Stay cynical - it's the only thing that makes any sense.  

xxxxx


----------



## Ann_P

Disaster - 

Just been for my post op follow-up discussion with my consultant. 

The good news is:- apart from the fibroids (which we knew about) they found nothing wrong, all else normal. 

The bad news is :-      ditto above

Basically was told that the problem is very unlikely to be the fibroids, nothing else is wrong, FSH 6 is very good, but the problem is my age only. She said I was highly unlikely to have a full pregnancy at my age. More or less forget it. She does not recommend IVF for me as its so unlikely to work.

I asked about DHEA & trying to improve the quality of my eggs but was told there's nothing you can do. Asked also about AMH levels, but mine haven't been tested (they don't do them at that hospital).

I'm so devastated. The cons did tell me the name of a specialist if I wanted to talk to him about my chances with IVF, (a Robert Foreman in Regents Park), but she said the success rate is only 10%.

Actually thats better than I thought, so that perked me up a little bit, but she still said "thats 9 chances out of 10 it won't work, I wouldn't do it". 

I know, but when its your life path at stake, its got to be worth a try. I'm going to look the guy up & if he says he won't treat me so be it, but if he will I'm going to have to go for it. I don't want to look back later in life and regret not giving it one go at least.

I managed to just about keep it together in the meeting but then I was so devastated walking out of the hospital. That was the first time anyone has actually told me that they cannot see me having a pregnancy. So I can't be a mum. Had to go home on the bus today and when it arrived I didn't know whether to get on it or jump under it...

I've just walked around Tesco in a daze, looking at all the very young mums struggling with three kids each. I just wish the world was a bit more fair. I'd have made a billiant mum, I know I would.

Got home & went to bed & cried my lungs out. I've just tried to sleep it off, but my head is spinning, so now I'm off-loading here instead.

I don't know what I'm going to tell DP. This is so hard.

Sorry to go on, just had to get it all out. God it hurts.

Ann x


----------



## bottleofwater

Hi Ann

I am sorry you feel so low, how can they tell you that without knowing your full range of tests including the AMH and inhibin B. Every consultant I have had have said pregnancy is possible with me and I am the same age as you, my one gyno has a freind who had 5 miscarriages from her early 40's to 44 and then gave birth at 46.  SHe also had a woman with high fsh give birth in her 40's.  Another woman at 50 gave birth.  So I don't think anyone can tell you with certainty.  My gyno says try chinese herbs as they can't hurt and seems to help women.  My last consultant has said I should try very hard for 6 mths then look into DE, I have areadly thought about DE and will probably go in Spring.  But until then will try to get pregnant with my own eggs.  I really advise you to get the other tests done, you have a very good fsh so thats a great start. The statistics do say trying to get pregnant without ivf do give higher success rates in our age range.  The fact you get pregnant like myself means it can happen again and perhaps next time the egg isn't chromosomally abnormal.  Do you have PCOS?


----------



## Ann_P

Hi B of W,

Thanks for your post, thats very uplifting. I can't give up hope. I've been thinking what else am I supposed to do with the rest of my life if I'm never a mum. Even the thought of endless holidays is doing nothing at all for me! I just never imagined not being a mum, & then one day a gran..etc..etc.

I appreciate my consultant being honest with me, but it has thrown me so much! Its not her fault of course.

Whats so frustrating is that everything is as regular as clockwork. AF always on time, FSH low, tubes clear, no endometriosis, no PCOS, no sticky blood...all tests bloomin fine. So there's nothing to sort out. I'm just too bloody old & I can't do anything about that. I guess thats why IVF's probably no help, its not going to make my eggs any younger is it.

All I can do is curse the past boyfriends that led me along for there own selfish reasons and wasted years of my fertile time! If only I'd met my DP earlier instead of some of the commitment-phobes I used to go out with. My own fault.


----------



## bottleofwater

Hi Ann

I would still recommend the other blood tests, as I said before most clinics now use three tests to make the diagnosis of fertility.  Remeber the oldest pregnancy with own eggs is 59 years old, and held by a British woman. Her son is 10 years old.


----------



## Miranda7

Gawd, Ann - ignore that consultant! She sounds as if she knows bugger all, really she does. As BoW says, you have to get the tests and try IVF - there's nothing wrong with you but for age. 

Go somewhere they know more, and will treat you in the best way for you - don't listen to the doom merchants.

xxxx


----------



## Ann_P

Thanks ladies,

This afternoon I have gone from feeling totally stuffed & hopeless - to - more determined than ever. 
I am not going to leave a stone unturned. 

I feel better now that I have a plan, giving up is not an option....

~I will try to find out where I can get the AMH & Inhibin B tests done ASAP 
~I will try to track down Dr. Robert Foreman for a consultation. 
~I will pick up half a ton of DHEA in Miami tomorrow (gonna ask DP to take it too, a little extra testosterone can't do him any harm!). 
~And I'm going to ask Nuala where she went for her chinese herbs and acupuncture. 
~Oh, and I'm going to have lots of SEX!!! 
~If all that fails, AND Dr. F also advises against IVF, I'll be looking at the donor egg route.

It aint over till its over.


----------



## Miranda7

Yay! Go girl!


----------



## bottleofwater

Great Ann, Nuala really is an inspiration.  I just think you saw someone who only saw pessimism.  I am doing chinese herbs with Dr Zhai, she is really good.  Also two of my freinds had babies at 45 so it is not as rare as some consultants say.


----------



## Ann_P

Ha Ha!  

I just kidded on DP that the DHEA contains testosterone so it might make me grow a beard! 

He said ..."Thats ok, I'll still have sex with you, but I won't kiss you!" 

..Ahhh, thats love!


----------



## Ann_P

Ooh B of W, didn't see your message til after I'd posted... Dr Zhai  - how do I find her? Does she have a web-site?


----------



## bottleofwater

hi Ann

Here is the link: http://www.zhaiclinic.co.uk/fertility-alternative-medicine.htm

x

/links


----------



## Ann_P

Thanks BoW, I've been straight on there & requested a brochure! Hope those herbs don't taste foul....


----------



## nikkis

I think a 10pc chance is good compared to what I have been quoted..when I was 43 I was told 5% max so good for you..worth a try I should say
Ive gone straight to DE after a disasterous attempt with my own eggs as I reckoned the chances were better , but havent succeeded so far
Which clinic does this consultant work in in London?
Nikki


----------



## mashie

Hi 
Robert Foreman works at CRM London , based near baker st tube, IM for number if needed

i went there for my DD - he was recommended to me and  i would recomend him 

good luck   

mashie xxxx


----------



## Johan

Hi, sorry to crash in but just to let you know a bit about my own experience as I'm also 44 and currently on the dreaded 2ww after my first round of IVF.
Like Ann, I spent a long time with the wrong (non-committal) men but always wanted children. Finally, I have the opportunity to try but I am now in my forties. After trying for several years I finally got my first appointment at my local NHS hospital as a paying patient. Months and months later I finally got the opportunity to have IVF. We were given a 5-10% chance and the doctor although nice wearily advised me to think about how much money was involved given these odds. I was shocked at the odds as I suppose I didn't know that much at the time and thought IVF would be 'the answer'. 
Anyway, I still don't know all that much except that I scored pretty much normal on all the tests and we have 'unexplained infertility'. At the Egg Collection - after a slow start I posted about a week or two back - they got nine eggs, six fertilised and two were grade 2, one grade 3. I don't know if that's great or not but I got the impression the staff were all a bit surprised (I think we must be their oldest patients) and it was a relief for us.
Now I'm just waiting, like any other woman, for the pregnancy test next week.
I suppose what I'm saying is IVF at 44/45 is worth a go. We have more chance with these two little embryos on board (hopefully    ) than we would otherwise and if we'd gone with the medics' general pessimism in the earlier appointments we'd never have come this far. What happens next is another chapter but at least for today I can say (even with the agony of the wait) I am glad we have tried.
Oh and a friend of mine who is three months older than me got pregnant naturally at the age of 43 and is due in January. 
Another way of looking at statistics is that they give you trends and likelihoods but there is no definite statistic for the individual that is the one and only you!
Johan.


----------



## bottleofwater

hi Johan

Wishing you loads of luck, if you say your tests all came back normal I wonder if that actually gives you a higher success rate.  Since the 5-10% surely is the average.  Sounds like you got some good eggs.  Good luck xx


----------



## Johan

Thank you Bottleofwater. It didn't work out but still glad to have had the chance!


----------



## suzie.b

So sorry to hear that Johan - I know how you feel, I got my BFN today.

Our day will come!

love
Suzie
x


----------



## bottleofwater

sorry to hear your news Johan and suzie, lets hope 2008 brings us all our dreams xx


----------



## suzie.b

Thanks, BOW - I'm still hoping  - for us all.

love
Suzie
x


----------



## Johan

Thanks BOW.
Suzie - sorry to hear you got a BFN  Here's a hug from a fellow BFN . Anyway, onwards and upwards. I had to go for my pg test today although AF had already arrived - yesterday. Didn't want to go but they insisted. Fortunately felt a bit more together today than I did yesterday. Look after yourself Suzie.
Johan.


----------



## suzie.b

Hi Johan

Yes, it's tough isn't it.  I feel much much worse today than I did yesterday.

Here's hoping for BFPs for us shortly.

love
Suzie
x


----------



## Jo

Sorry to read your sad news  

Lets hope 2008 bring you your dreams 

Love Jo
x x x


----------



## Johan

Hi Suzie: I just wondered how you were doing? I've been a bit up and down but have decided to go and see another specialist to get a second opinion on what to do next. I see him the same day I have my review appointment with my current consultant. The emotional impact of all this is very difficult but I'm hoping looking forward will help. Hope you're being gentle with yourself and not too down.
Johan.


----------



## suzie.b

Hi Johan

I've been up and down faster than a yoyo - it seems to be slowing now that I've stopped taking the drugs but still getting weepy a few times a day - cried myself to sleep again last night.  Had more good moments though too - had a red hot stinking bath this morning, my first for ages, which I really enjoyed.

My next tx is planned for August which is so long away, I really feel impatient to get started.

It's always a good idea to get a second opinion - puts your mind at rest at least that you've done the most possible.

Be kind to yourself too.

love
Suzie
xxxxx


----------



## Ann_P

Hi Ladies,

Haven't been on for a while as so busy over xmas/new year etc. 

Suzie & Johan, I'm so sorry things didn't work out for you ladies this time, its heartbreaking isn't it, maybe 2008 will be a new start for us all. 

DP and I have both started taking DHEA. I bought it in Miami and it was under the 'Mens' section in the Health Food shop! (GNC). Result so far is that it has made us feel extra 'fruity' so that can't be a bad thing  . So far I haven't grown a beard - but will keep you posted!! I have come out in spots on my chest though - not sure if this is because of the DHEA or the Vicks I've been rubbing on my chest due to the rotten cold I've had.

Just would like to add "Happy New Year" to all, whatever form that happiness takes!

Ann x


----------



## nikkis

wow Ann..thats a good side effect for the DHEA..in a perfect world you wouldnt now need the IVF if it has that effect!
The are doing a trial on DHEA in the IVF Wales clinic in Cardiff but you have to pay for it I believe unless you are lucky enough to be a young thing
Nikki


----------



## Johan

Just thought I'd say hello as I haven't been on the boards for a few days - like Suzy, was very weepy following BFN and couldn't bring myself to log on, or do very much at all in fact. Anyway, Suzy, hope you are feeling better.  I'm feeling less weepy now so I'm sure you probably are too. It's probably a mixture of the drugs and the emotional rollercoaster that is IVF catching up on us.
Wishing everyone a happy New Year and in the case of Suzy and myself a happier one!
Johan


----------



## suzie.b

Hi girls

Johan - yes, I do feel much better now - I think it's the progesterone.  It makes me feel absolutely knackered and depressed because I'm tired, and also a bit  obsessive.  I did feel very much alone and lonely for a while, very weepy, devastated and sad.  It took me completely by surprise as I had kind of figured on having two fresh goes and then one or two goes with frosties.  I did come on the boards, I was in touch with friends, and couldn't find comfort anywhere.  Now I feel positive - looking forward to a FET shortly (haven't finalised dates yet) and have got a fresh tx cycle booked for August.  I know this is going to sound awful, Johan, but I'm glad that I wasn't the only one feeling like that - I thought I was going crazy.  Not that I'm glad for your BFP, just that there's someone who understands .  I really hope that this next tx is The One for us.  Have you had your appointment yet?

Ann - I tried DHEA for a while - now that I'm not going for tx until August, I'm going to try it again - it did make me feel better while I was on it.  I hope it has the desired effect as well as the "desire" effect .

Nikki - when you say you have to pay for it, do you mean the IVF or the DHEA at Cardiff?

Hope 2008 is the year we all reach the stars!

love
Suzie
x


----------



## nikkis

hi Suzie b
I ve just found out that unless you are under 38 the dhea trial in Cardiff has to be paid for (I am amazed, who would want to pay to be part of a trial?) so sortry if I mislead you
Im testing again Fri...heaven help
Nikki


----------



## suzie.b

Nikki

I really hope it works for you - after all, it works for someone, why not you ?

I guess one of the reasons I was so fed up after my BFN was that I was using donor eggs - makes me wonder if there's something more wrong with me than just poor egg quality   .

I'm so keeping my fingers crossed for you .

love
Suzie
x


----------



## daisyg

Sorry to barge this thread.

Suzie, there may well be more going on for you than just age of eggs. Sadly, I have seen many 40-something women fail with their own eggs then move on to DE only to get bfns and miscarriages with DE.

Have you and your DH had any other testing for implantation failure/recurrent miscarriage? If not, I would advise it before continuing.

Here is a list of relevant tests - most of them can be done via your GP or ivf clinic or if you can, you may want to consult somewhere like ARGC who can help with the Chicago tests. However, a GP can run the basics.

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=80433.0

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=82741.0

These include uterine issues (fibroids etc), DH sperm - has he been karyotyped or had dna fragmentation testing - highly recommended. Clotting tests including MTHFR, autoimmune issues including lupus anticoagulant etc. Have you had thyroid checked, insulin resistance? Bacterial checks?
How was your lining? Triple stripe? How about your progesterone levels in 2 ww.

As you can see there are many other issues besides the age of your eggs which can lead to ivf failure with own eggs or Donor eggs/sperm.

Was your donor proven? Good quality embryos?? etc etc.

I know this sounds daunting, but testing now may save heartache and money in the long run. I speak from bitter experience!!

This info. also applies to women who want to continue to use their own eggs into their 40s. Please don't always assume age of eggs is the only issue.

And finally, whether doing DE or your own eggs the quality of the embryology lab and clinic is also paramount - what are their live birth stats (if own eggs have they had live births from women your age?).

Best of luck

Daisy
x


----------



## Ann_P

nikkis said:


> hi Suzie b
> I ve just found out that unless you are under 38 the dhea trial in Cardiff has to be paid for (I am amazed, who would want to pay to be part of a trial?) so sortry if I mislead you
> Im testing again Fri...heaven help
> Nikki


Hmmm.... seeing as DHEA is supposed to be about improving the quality of eggs in _older_ women, it seems like another example of making money out of people just because they are considered more desperate! (Therefore more likely to be willing to part with their cash!) How unfair!
Us older ladies really do get a rough deal!

Exactly Nikki, who needs to pay for it anyway? I can't remember exactly how much the DHEA I bought cost me, but it was something less than £10 for a 2 month supply! I'll do my own trial...


----------



## nikkis

thats exactly what I said when I queried why I would want to pay for something which I may get (but not worth much) or may even get the placebo and IF Im paying for my own IVF I would rather know exactly what is going on and what Im taking instead of being part of aqn experiment.  Yes, the whole point of DHEA is to improve eggs in older ladies so why charge older ladies to have the IVF in this case..makes no sense to me!


----------



## Ann_P

Its mad! If 50% of the women are getting a placebo then their chances are not increased at all and they'd be wasting their time (so would have to be 'not that bothered' about getting pregnant), who would pay to possibly waste their time? or pay if they're not really fussed? I really question some of these trials.

I also question the statistics... If there's a 1% chance that a 44 year old woman will get pregnant, what does that mean exactly?
1% of all women of that age?
1% of 44 yr old women actively trying to get pregnant?

Most women at 44 are not trying to conceive, many will have had their families already and maybe trying NOT to conceive, or even rarely having sex possibly, depending on circumstances. So, if say only 5% of women of this age are ttc and 1% of 44 yr old women _in total_ actually do conceive - thats 20% of those trying! Not that bad!

My consultant told me that the statistics were thought to be skewed, I wonder if that is why?

She also told me that I had a 10% chance with ivf, and she told me that I had no better chance with ivf than trying naturally as nothing (other than age) is wrong. So how can that statistic, and the 1% satistic both be right? 

Honestly, if we believed everything we read and heard we'd all give up....


----------



## Ann_P

Nikki - forgot to wish you good luck for your test on friday!

[fly]*".... GOOD LUCK FOR YOUR TEST ON FRIDAY!!!" *[/fly]

All the best,
Ann x


----------



## suzie.b

Hi

I know that a similar trial of DHEA in the US - can't remember the clinic ??SRME?? perhaps - the whole thing had to be paid for.  Many people feel (me included) that it's a way that they can get the extra money without having to include the results in their stats so it doesn't make them look bad.  The one in the US cost thousands more than usual too so I've heard.

Best, as you say, to do the trial ourselves.  I bought mine from herbal remedies in the US and it was very cheap - two for the price of one so I got loads .

love
Suzie
x


----------



## nikkis

yes Ann and Suzie, you are both right..better to pay for the dhea and KNOW you're getting it otherwise why other to take part..also, stats can be read in many different ways and can be misleading, depending on how you look at them
Nikki
x


----------



## suzie.b

Nicky

Just wanted to wish you     for your test today (just noticed the time ).

lots of love
Suzie
x


----------



## nikkis

thank you girls
well, youve guessed..another negative..zero bhcg test ie no implantation AGAIN
starting to think my body is just rejecting these little embryos and not sure what to do next..dont want to waste my lovely little frozen ones
we need to make this thread a good one so lets keep trying!


----------



## bottleofwater

so sorry to hear that nikkis, I think perhaps a few little tests may be helpful to see if you have immune issues etc.  Unfortunately it just could be bad luck as well.  Its just not fair is it... xxx


----------



## nikkis

Dear BOW
I know..I dont know which is worst..it must be horrid to have a problem, but also luck or lack of is horrid as we just cant control luck, can we?
Wish we could all wave a magic wand
Nikki


----------



## suzie.b

So sorry, Nikki.  Wish I knew those magic words to make you feel better.  Have you had any tests yet?  DaisyG's post has made me think although I think I'll have tx another time before I go down the masses of tests route - I've only tried one so far.  Goodness knows how women can keep trying several times over - the stress and emotional turmoil must be overwhelming.  I can only stand back in admiration and respect.  Did you try steroids to take care of any immune issues?  I don't really know enough to be of any help, I'm afraid .

love
Suzie
xxxxx


----------



## Ann_P

Nikki, I'm so sorry. I really feel for you . I wish I could make you feel better. Take good care of yourself for now.


----------



## nikkis

thank you both
Last time I took a short dose of steroids and also I take pentoxifylline which my clinic says has a dampening effect
Problem is that Ive been phoning clinics re how many times is enough to start suspecting immune probs and not getting very far
ARGC wont answer the phone after several attempts and the Lister wont take any patients who are also being treated abroad
Feel Im going around in circles so Im waiting to see what my clinic in Spain has to say after they discuss our case in their meeting
So very frustrating
Love to you all
Nikki


----------



## suzie.b

Nikki - can't you tell a little white lie and say that your tx was at a clinic here?

love
Suzie
x


----------



## nikkis

could try but I cant look at people when Im lying and I know it would all come back to haunt me
Tried CARE in Nottingham and the lady there said she would talk to cons and get back to me, so at least they seem a little bit more obliging..we shall see
Meanwhile still have to wait to see what my clinic in Spain suggests since we have entered into a contract with them (refunding) and cant do anything without their say so
Come on girls..we need someone here to get pregnant ASAP
x


----------



## suzie.b

How about saying that you're thinking about having more treatment?   That'd be true, wouldn't it?

I'm trying to get pg asap - honest    

love
Suzie
xxxxx


----------



## nikkis

me again
CARE wont treat anyone re. immunity unless they are doing the IVF and since I need donor eggs and there is a long waiting list we're pretty scuppered!  We cant win, can we!
Hi to you all and hoping for some miracles
Nikki


----------



## suzie.b

Hi Nikki

What have your own clinic said about immune problems?  Surely they must be prepared to do something, or haven't you had your consultation with them yet?

The first few weeks after a BFN must be the hardest ever, don't you think?  I can't wait until it has become a slightly more distant memory. 

love
Suzie
xxxxx


----------



## nikkis

hi Suzie
My clinic dont agree with immune issues particularly...they want us to use up our (very good) frozen embryos and then they suggest FISH and my hubbys blood karyotype being done..we are just hoping that they are right and outr previous failures are bad luck.  I read yesterday that 70% of embryos created by IVF are not viable so this may explain our past failures.
In a nutshell, since our clinic isnt into the whole immune thing, and since I cant get a UK clinic to treat me, then we shall go with our frosties and hope for a mirable (again!)
Hope your saving hard for your trip in the summer!
Nikki
ps hi to everyone else too


----------



## daisyg

Nikki,

Just wanted to reiterate that so called immune issues make up a tiny proportion of relevant tests for ivf failure/miscarriage.  Most of these can be done via your GP and your ivf clinic etc.

These would include DH karyotyping, uterine issues (hysteroscopy for fibroids etc), clotting screens (including MTHFR if poss.), autoimmune (e.g. lupus anticoagulant etc), bacterial (mycoplasma, ureaplasma, chlamydia), thyroid and antithyroid antibodies etc etc.

I wonder if DH has had the sperm dna fragmentation test - can tell a lot more than the average sperm tests....

NK Cells, cytokines, TH1, TH2, DQ Alpha etc  are the so-called immune tests and are only done at specialists - however, they are a small part of the basic eliminatory testing.

Have you any autoimmune family or personal history -e.g. arthritis, crohn's, coeliacs, etc etc?  Things like this may also provide clues to failure.

Finally, of course it may all be down to the age of your eggs (and poss. DH's sperm depending on his age) and the FISH test may give you more info.  However, through bitter experience I have found that this is not necessarily the whole story and I had four miscarriages at age 44 - 45 with own eggs and donor before I was diagnosed with easy to treat issues.

Wishing you the best of luck,

Daisy
x


----------



## nikkis

hi again daisy!
thanks for all that info..yes my hubby has had fragmentation and luckily its ok
I have coeliacs but have been told that this shouldnt be an issue so Im hoping thats right
The eggs have been from young donors so they shouldnt be an issue either so we are just plodding on and will try again with our frozen ones
I hope your little twins are sleeping soundly
Nikki


----------



## daisyg

Sorry Nikki but Coeliacs can be an autoimmune marker according to doctors like Dr. Beer and other reporoductive immunologists. It is possible that it is affecting your attempts at conceiving - have you had any autoimmune testing e.g. antinuclear antibodies, IgG, IgA, AGA and AEA, or NK Cells to see?

I would investigate this further - it may be a problem for you.... I hope it isn't...

http://gut.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/39/3/382

http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/14/11/2759

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=ShowFulltext&ProduktNr=223845&Ausgabe=227960&ArtikelNr=52881

Good news on the sperm...! Fingers crossed for your FET and hoping for success for you very soon. I know how hard it is to keep going in the fact of all this stuff - keep going, you'll get there...

Daisy
x

[red]This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites[/red]


----------



## nikkis

thanks Daisy
we are going to use our frozen embryos and then start to worry about possible further testing
Our main problem is that our clinic doesnt promote immune testing, but would prefer us to test for chromosomal errors, and since I cant get a UK clinic to treat me alongside DE abroad I have to go with my clinics recommendations
Heaven forbid that these frosties dont work then my hubby will have blood karyotype and FISG (If we can find a clinic who does that)
Your links on the coeliacs are very helpful..you are a star


----------



## daisyg

Nikki,

They may not promote immune testing, but this kind of testing is very much standard and not at all controversial (e.g. IgG, IgA and coeliac relevant antibodies etc).  It may be worth double checking with the clinic for more help in the light of this?  It seems a shame to possibly waste the frozen embryos when you could have much of the testing via the clinic or GP?

I know I keep hounding you .... but I always feel it does no harm to ask and see if there is further help with your clinic, you never know....

Best wishes,

Daisy
x


----------



## nikkis

hi Daisy
tried to pm you but your inbox is full!
Nikki


----------



## daisyg

Nikki,

Thanks - have emptied it a bit!

Daisy
x


----------



## suzie.b

Nikki

Sorry to hear you're still having difficulties - Daisy's advice sounds like common sense.  I hope you manage to get it sorted out - I know nothing about these areas unfortunately.

love
Suzie
xxxxx


----------



## nikkis

well, my hubby had his blood karyotype and I had some basic immune tests locally yesterday (there  goes another few hundred £)
I was so shocked that my local clinic agreed to do it after all the big clinics refusing, that I forgot to ask which ones they were doing! What a twit
Oh well, hello to you all
Nikki


----------



## suzie.b

That's great news, Nikki.  At least if they aren't the ones you were particularly interested in, at least you know where to go now - that's a huge step forward.  That's the kind of thing I'd be likely to do too   .

love
Suzie
xxxxx


----------



## suzie.b

And I bet it was cheaper there than at the other clinics . . .


----------



## nikkis

Suzie
Ive no idea what they tested me for and they didnt even know the price so I shall have to wait for the bill..it was all a bit last minute..however, they have been fair to us in the past and I feel they are genuine, not just out for a quick buck from us
Maybe I shall chance my mind when we get the bill!!!
Hope things ok for you..what made you decide on Reprofit?  Ive heard good stories about them...
Nikki


----------



## suzie.b

I started reading the posts for various clinics last January and Reprofit appealed to me most - not only because of the price but because it's relatively easy and cheap to get to.  Also, as I'm doing donor egg, I wanted a nation of people who some of them would look similar to me.  I'd already been to Prague so knew that I liked the country so it seemed as though it all fitted together.  Brno is a really nice place.  Although it's the second city, it has a small town feel - very pleasant.  All in all, I have no regrets about choosing it - except that I didn't get a BFP first time     .

What made you choose your clinic?

Ann P - how are you getting on?  We haven't heard from you in a while.

By the way, I am taking DHEA for a while - until my tx which will be soon!  Yes, I have had a cancellation from the clinic so am going for EC and 3rd March  - totally gobsmacked that it's so soon after being down about waiting so long.

love
Suzie
xxxxx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Suzie can I ask you about DHEA- when I was thinking about taking DHEA I recall being told to stop it months before cycling- is this correct?
L x


----------



## suzie.b

I have to stop taking it at either ovulation or egg collection - not to be taken whilst pregnant so hopefully . . .

love
Suzie
xxxxx


----------



## daisyg

Suzie,

Sorry to barge, but why are you taking DHEA for a donor egg cycle?  There is absolutely no evidence that it helps and in fact can be detrimental given that it is a steroid hormone and may well interfere with the (hormone)meds. you will be taking for your cycle.

I personally would advise you to give it a miss as I have not seen any evidence for its use with donor eggs and if you do fail again, how will you know whether the DHEA was instrumental?

If I have got this info. wrong and you are using your own eggs - forgive me (however, I am very, very unsure about the efficacy of self medication with DHEA).

Daisy
x


----------



## suzie.b

Hi Daisy

Thanks for worrying .  I'm not taking it for the cycle - I've restarted taking it.  I take it every month up to ovulation as it is related to oestrogen, then stop it for the second half of my cycle.  I stopped it for the DEIVF, waited until all the drugs left my system and will stop it again when I ovulate, and then stop it again when I do my depot.  I take it for the anticancer effects and the antiosteoporosis effects, and also because it improves my skin (normally quite dry) and without it my hair becomes quite thin.  It does seem to have a lot of beneficial effects for me.  But I wouldn't take it during tx in case it interfered with the drugs they gave me, particularly the estrofem, as DHEA can be converted to oestrogen, I'd worry I was getting too much.

love
Suzie
xxxxx


----------



## nikkis

Suzie
great news that your TX has been brought forward
I know what you mean about having DE in a country where people are like us
I had IVF (not DE) tho in Gdansk and there they were like us in the UK, Im not worried about having it in BCN tho firstly since its Northern Spain and secondly I wouldnt care if the baby were sky blue pink!!
We chose Instituto Marques because I liked the website and they seemed to have good success rates..the people there are lovely and kind (and speak very goo dEnglish)
Interesting what you say about the benefits of DHEA on your general health..

Hi to all you other "old birds"!
Nikki


----------



## Miranda7

It is actually produced in the body naturally, DHEA, so I can't see what people worry about in taking it - it's just like taking vitamin tablets - a supplement to your natural production.

It improves general health because as you age the DHEA in the body dwindles, and you're topping it up.

Studies have shown that it significantly improves pregnancy rates in women with poor ovarian reserve. If you have a gander on the poor responders thread you'll see we've had some success with it - certainly my eggs were noticeably better quality after taking it for four months.

I took the full dose for a week and got my GP to test my testosterone levels, as it can raise them, and they were fine, but I generally took 50mg a day for four months. But I was only 34 - my problem was poor reserve rather than age.

More EWCM can't be sniffed at - I felt like I was in someone else's body before taking it, sex was so sore. After Bob the Bump emerges I'll probably start taking it again so my sex life doesn't go down the toilet again!

xx


----------



## nikkis

hi Miranda and Suzie
wher edo you get this wonder drug from..just the US?
I wont take it with IVF since I am under contract with my clinic and must do as they say, but maybe afterwards...


----------



## Miranda7

Under contract? Sounds dangerous!  

Seriously though, you're the paying customer here - I don't get why you can't take a supplement. I presume you're already taking folic acid, zinc, selenium etc.

I got mine from www.agestop.com , but you can also get it from www.biovea.com

It's about the only thing that's cheap in this game!

xx


----------



## madison

HI,

                  I took DHEA in the cycle that I got Miles & even tho I have run out now I do intend to buy some more.
                  I didnt get any side effects.

                          Katy. xxx


----------



## daisyg

Miranda,

Your info. on DHEA is totally misinformed.  It is NOT like a vitamin supplement, it is a hormone and if you already have an imbalance of testostorone for example it can be contraindicated.  Sorry haven't got time to cite research but will later.  

Also, there is only one main study ref. DHEA and has not produced any live births to date - there simply is not the research to back up DHEA at the moment so again your info. is incorrect.  Again, I will try later to link to more info. but no time right now...

Sorry to go on, but I really have to call you on this one.

Daisy
x


----------



## Miranda7

Which is why I got my testosterone checked! 

And I didn't say live births - I said pregnancy rate, so try not to jump too far down my throat!


----------



## nikkis

what I mean by contract is that we have paid for 3 DEIVFs upfront and if we dont get preg by 3 then we get a part refund
I wouldnt do anything detrimental and didnt mean to make it sound like my clinic arent open to ideas..they are the lovliest and most genuinely caring..also I guess that DHEA wouldnt be of any use since Im using donor eggs
Oh dear, why is it all so hard..it should be the most natural thing in the world!
Nikki


----------



## suzie.b

Nikki

DHEA is only good for fertility as it improves the condition of one's own eggs - it's not for my fertility as I'm using donor eggs.  I used it for three months before I was stimming and felt much better on it so intend to keep taking it in smallish doses but only in the first half of each cycle.  High levels of it get converted to oestrogen so it can interfere with ovulation and then my cycles would get longer and that would be sooooo frustrating.  I have very very fine hair and it becomes noticeably thicker and shinier while I'm on it.  I also take fish oils which has made me able to grow my nails  - normally really weak, I almost think I could take out screws with them now, they're so strong.  DHEA also improves cervical mucous significantly and increases sex drive (i.e. sign of more oestrogen).

As far as I'm concerned, DHEA is like any other supplement - to be used wisely and with common sense.

Miranda - had to laugh at your comment about sniffing at EWCM - don't fancy it myself .  I truly believe that if it helped you and it was medically ok to take, then go for it .

love
Suzie
xxxxx


----------



## Ann_P

Hi all!

Sorry haven't been around for a while. Just back from our hols this afternoon. 

Had a glorious week in Tobago and feeling very refreshed! Lots of sun, sea, sand and of course sex! I think the DHEA helped make us extra fruity all the time. Great stuff! Only prob is I gave half our supply to DP long before our hols (I'm away a lot with my work so take mine with me & leave him with some). He managed to loose his! He loves the stuff & has been taking mine so now we've run out...hope we don't dry up! 

I've only ever bought it in the USA before, but I'm not going there in the foreseeable future. I'm off to Hong Kong in a couple of days though, does anyone know if they can be bought there? I bet they can, they'll sell anything in Hong Kong.

Now I'm back I'm going to chase up my NHS consultant to see if she's gone ahead & referred me to the private clinic. Haven't heard back from her despite 3 messages to her assistant's answerphone over the last few weeks. Can never seem to speak to a real person! 

Good luck to all, it would be so nice to hear of a BFP on this thread... 

Ann  x


----------



## suzie.b

Ann

I bought it online from Herbal Remedies - you can actually track it's progress online to you - it was delivered very quickly.

love
Suzie
xxxxx


----------



## nikkis

oh so you can take DHEA with DE and it has benefits even tho it wont affect the IVF?  Im not going for my frosties for a couple of months so do you think it may be worth a short dose in the meantime?
A better urge would be beneficial cos the loss of our son and 2 yrs TTC has definitely taken its toll where that is concerned
Does it have any effect on sperm?
Nikkii
xxx


----------

