# Head in a spin wondered if you had any advice!



## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

Dear all

Hope you don't mind me starting a new thread just that my head is a spin as to what I should do next and I'm really torn so I thought I'd put it all down and see if you had any wise words.  I'm using suity's list making ideas to help me think through the options.  thanks v much.
xx

here goes:
1) have tubes checked again but take some kind of drug to help prevent tubes spasm-ing
pros: be good to know if they are actually blocked for future use, just in case I meet nice man before i am no longer fertile and want to try naturally
if not blocked I could continue with IUI's which are less invasive...have only tried 3 natural cycles so far so do I just need to up the ante...I have good hormone levels and am definitely ovulating, could medicated IUI work?
con's: if they are blocked then means IVF  so would have just wasted more money, IUI rates are low so should I just be moving to IVF anyway?

2) look into natural/mild IVF further
pros: less invasive, like the idea of not taking drugs, cheaper than conventional IVF although this might not be true if using donor sperm
cons: not sure if they treat single woman, not sure how expensive if using donor sperm, don't know how long I'd have to wait

3) try naturally
pros: have never tried to get pregnant naturally would be nice to see if I could!  I'm not yet convinced I have fertility  probs just lack of sperm!  it would be fun!
cons: not sure what else I might get! not sure about how child would feel born into this situation...not really fair on unsuspecting man!

4) postpone and try to date properly in order to do option 3!
pros: if works would all be good
cons: no guarantee won't just be in the same situation in a years time but with older eggs! not sure I can keep the baby issue under control whilst trying to do this, it clouds judgement.

5) go for IVF
pros: good odds at my age, could be the quickest route to becoming mum
cons: very worried about drug side effects and the impact, worried about multiple birth potential (although am sure I could cope!), no guarantee it will work and is expensive so could be skint and with no baby 

6) wait for my baby from china
pros: have already been committed to this for 3 years and feel very happy with this decision, if the timescales hadn't become so ridiculous I would just be waiting for this to happen
cons: china could stop adoptions at any time so no guarantee, would I regret not trying to give birth at some point and if I wait for china baby and then try to get pregnant will I be too old, could I hold out only for china to stop the programme and then I'm too old to get pregnant, so end up with no family

7) just give up
pros: wouldn't have to think about all this stuff
cons: wouldn't be a mum (don't think this one is really an option!)

Any more I've missed

So far friends have suggested just going out and trying to get pregnant! hmmm helpful...and trying dating again....they can't believe its so difficult and that really only 3 squirts of free roaming sperm is not enough to start IVF, which seems so invasive.  I really really don't know what to do and I feel like I have the added pressure that I still really want to adopt if I can and this means a certain amount of time between birth and adopted child, so basically the sooner I get going the more likely it is that I might still be able to adopt.  I hope this makes some sense.  It would also be really good to hear how you have all found IVF, I am pretty scared of the drugs and what they might do...I also feel like I'm stuck between thinking I am still young to be doing this but then knowing that my odds are higher now.

Sorry to ramble on...any/ all thoughts very welcome...maybe just telling me to get a grip will help!
xx


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

lulumead it is hard- can I ask why you are so set on Chinese adoption as if you explored adoption here surely it would be a quicker process- look at Carebear (single mum now with her baby, my friend was approved in 8 months to adopt an under 2 yr old- her health has deteriorated so she has had to put it on hold) I know that there is no guarantees and it could take a long time.

Hvaing a hycosy or HSG is no big deal if just for piece of mind, I had one even though never had IUI but they can show up uterine issues as well.

I think as you are considering the dating game and trying to start a relationship important as I had to get my head around it and be happy being a single mother and not hankering after Mr Right, not totally giving up on him if he appears later- but for now all my energy is employed into TTC and I have no time, if I met someone now it would complicate matter and put my TTC plans on hold. Also if I started a relationship now it would be for the wrong reason merely looking for a sperm machine and TTC and not developing a relationship into that. I personally see it as the worst thing that could happen to me, I don't feel I miss out (other than on the sex!!) but have a read of the relationship thread and sometimes you realise how lucky we are to be single!!

As for men I presume your friends are saying a one night stand etc etc (trapping someone who may or may not ever be part of the child's life) I think is immoral and not an option, plus you don;t have the best interests of yourself or baby at heart as you know nothing about them or their health status, and if they make it a habit they will have been around before! You see the girls on here agonising over choosing DS but I suppose in a bar all you can see is what is infront of you, whereas a sperm bank you know more about other things and not their looks.

Would you not ask your male friends to donate sperm for you? I found when I made it known that I wanted to become a mother they came out of the woodwork offering.

As for IVF remember that your fertility declines at 35, 38 and 40 so time is not really on your side, I would regret staring at 36-7 and not earlier. Have you had all your bloods done FSH,LH, oestrodial,prolactin and progesterone?

At the end of the day it is a very personal decision. I personally wouldn't do IUI as the odds are so low, the drugs weren't

Create do treat single women with mild IVF, I have a lesbian friend (40)who did her first cycle there, produced 2 eggs, one embryo and has a son! They had sperm as her partner had a son at LWC and they were allowed to use sibling sperm. If not you can import sperm if they don't like some of the girls from ESB perhaps. My friends partner also had 6 IUI natural and medicated, at LWC and them moved to ivF and conceived every time of her IVF. Why not even go for a consultation with them and see what they recommend?

If you don't want IVF because of the drugs, and to be honest my first IVF cycle I was naive and it was plain sailing. what are you scared of with the drugs? the giving of them, the effects are short lived and what you desire if carefully monitored and pregnancy will change your body 100% if you are worried about this aspect of it.

If you are frightened of twins then be reassured that most clinics now have to reduce their multiple birth rates by the end of the year and therefore are recommending only putting single embryos back in younger women or first cyclers, but again discuss this. Even with one embryo back there is less of a chance of twins but not a zero chance as you will see on FF!!

What about embryo adoption abroad like the Reprofit girls, as you are happy to adopt a child, so therefore I guess you may be happier to accept this option? There are less drugs involved in this route.

Or look on the gay lesbian thread as some of the girls have got known donors, fresh sperm from FSDW or gay websites and do home insems with men who are willing for this (Gina is a great source of info http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=151237.0)

Good Luck with your thinking.

L x


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

As Rose pointed out unfortunately the meeting Mr Right doesn't mean that he hasn't got fertility issues, in fact when they look at infertiltiy 30-40% of men have issues of some sort! 30-40% or women and the 'unxplained' make up the other 30-40%.
I found this when I decided upon my known donor i then discovered a low sperm count and we then had to use ICSI instead of IVF or IUI.

L x


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

thanks for this...its useful to hear other thoughts. to be honest, I agree with you and think trying to date would confuse things and only put stuff back and I don't really have time on my side! I've already got my head around being a single parent, I think friends suggestion of trying to date, etc is just to make it easier to find sperm (and I agree its immoral hence never having an accident so far in my life even when with partners) !! Doing this alone doesn't scare me, the adoption process has been very good at making me think through lots of stuff to do with this.  I'm not scared about twins but I think its realistic to think about how much harder this could be, but I have good support so I'm sure I'd cope, can just seem a bit overwhelming thought (plus would end china adoption too!)

In terms of China v's UK adoption, it is hard (although not impossible) to adopt a child under 2 in the UK but as a white single woman I was told it would/could take a while and I knew I wanted to adopt as young as possible.  When I started my process for china I was told 2 - 2.5 years, so it would have happened by now.  Ironically Uk adoption could have happened by now! But if I was to start again, I could be looking at a long wait and I am now emotionally and financially invested in China. (might seem weird but in my head seems clear!).

All my hormone levels are fine around 4.5/5 ish for FSH and LH. In terms of drugs am just worried about the side effects that they may have, just seems weird to shut down a perfectly good system and then re start it.  Good suggestion to talk to Reprofit about natural IVF, plus am definitely going to speak to Create, already emailed them to try and sign up to an open day. Basically in terms of tubes, had a hycosy where tubes spasm'd so don't know if they are blocked or not!

Tried the male friends...many thought about it but decided would be too weird, too many of them are like my brothers! have asked my ex to consider it and he is thinking about it, but is big ask so I think he will say no.

I think deep down I'm probably heading towards IVF, maybe just struggling that I've got to this point without every even trying to get pregnant but at the end of it it has the highest odds of being successful and I do like LWC as a clinic.

And I definitely feel the pressure to get going sooner rather than later, maybe thats why my head is spinning...am trying to sort it ASAP.  I think once I've definitely decided it will be easier, I always find the thinking about it the hardest then once I have a plan its all good.

Thanks JJ & Rose for replies...very useful.  I'll add embryo adoption into my thinking too!

Am going to my GP on friday am taking my IVF drug prescription, to see if they will do on the NHS, they said they would see!  I think I'll ask them about tube checks too...don't ask don't get (although I think we all know the most likely answer!)

thanks again
xxx


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

Lulu - I personally wouldn't ask an ex for sperm as that would emotionally cloud issues too much for me - I do love my donor and his partner, as brothers etc and we have a very close relationship, but I don't have the complication of having had a sexual -emotional attachment to them, and at the time hoping that the relationship would end up as a couple with a baby (I was my donors manager that is how we met but that is another story!!).  Mind you I wouldn't want to have a child with  many of my exs ! Most of my male friends are gay men anyway the straight ones are someone elses husband.

Have you looked into importing sperm? or using known donors from a website? 
IVF isn't that awful if it goes to plan, they do try and limit the drug usuage to your body and needs- I can give you the name of a lady who has done a cycle at Create but she did get premie twins! from her 2 embryos on the second cycle!!!

Remember that most LA won't assess you for adoption  in the UK, if you are pursing fertility treatment, or for a while afterwards - my friend who was approved from her group was not the only one approved as a single mum and for babies, but she is of mixed race.  Also the couple who were on her course got a 4 month old white baby girl, they also said that if they can't meet the requirements in your area after 3-6 months they can look nationally for you.

Happy thinking!!
L x


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## muddypaws (Apr 10, 2008)

LL you've had some really honest and sensible ideas from people and I would echo what both JJ and Rose have said. Maybe it was easier for me because I was older but I quickly realised that looking for a known donor was extremely complicated both emotionally and potentially in terms of responsibility later on in the baby's life. You don't have to give up on relationships but maybe Mr Right will come after the baby and still be able to be a great step-dad....that's what I'm aiming for. Waiting any longer for him is only going to make you more resentful if he doesn't come along and want a baby within your timescale...too much pressure for most men to think about. 

I wish that I had been in your position at 36. I started my journey at 38 and got pregnant at 40...my baby will be born a couple of weeks before my 41st birthday and overjoyed as I am, assuming it all works out, I wish I were younger. I don't want my child to be an only one because if they don't have a dad around, they will need a sibling for support - as I'm older, so are most of my family and will likely not be around when my child is an adult, except for my brothers who are neither great roles models. The chances of a sibling are much slimmer for me now because of my age and that makes me sad for my child. You need to think about the possibility that ttc could take longer than we are all led to believe by urban myth!  Harsh as it may seem (and it really isn't meant to be) at 36 you are already less likely to conceive than you were a year ago....despite my being pregnant now, it has still been a painful journey with regrets about having waited so long and irritation at myself for thinking that it wouldn't be that tough given my good hormone levels and test results etc etc. It was!

I say just go for it....you clearly know that you want a child, have thought it through carefully and are seen by others as having the potential to be a good mum (hence being approved for adoption)...it's just last minute nerves I reckon. The drugs affect people very differently....I was lucky and had limited side effects and this is the case for lots of women. Another option, though I'm not sure if you've already passed the cut off age for this, is invitro maturation (IVM). This requires far less drug use as they take the immature eggs and develop tham in the lab....mind you Oxford is the only UK clinic doing this so it does limit your options and I think 35 might be the cut-off. Look at their website. Don't know if Reprofit do this? You could go for stimulated IUI in the meantime but an HSG or Hycosy again would be sensible.

If you get pregnant soon, there's no way that you will regret anything to do with your decision as the fact that you are having a baby will wash away any doubts or wishes for anything else. Sure you will feel sad at the lack of a partner, I do. Not nearly as sad as not being a mum though. I really wish you the best of luck in your decision making.    

Muddy x


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

Muddy I don't think IVM is an option - I may be wong as it is for younger women wiht polycystic ovaries is my understanding it is only offered at the John Radcliffe in Oxford, there are some FF who have had it.

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=154267.0
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=173398.0

L x


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## Betty-Boo (Oct 14, 2007)

lulu - hope the head is clearing now - i know i was about 33/34 when i first started thinking about this route - met someone - it didn't work out and i was then further down the line.  My fertility as it happens isn't good so it does look like donor eggs for me - as this is the only way of me carrying a child.  
Itdoes come down to whether it is important for you to be pregnant or hold out for your gorgeous chinese child.  This is such a personal decision - have you thought about going over to repro for a consult?? Second opinion, maybe discuss min stim ivf?  IVF gives you the best chance as the sperm and egg actually get to say hello.
Take care and do whats right for you    
mini x x


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## Sima (Aug 10, 2008)

Hi Lulu

Gosh - You have been through a lot already no wonder your head is spinning.    You have been given some good advice already so I hope things are beginning to get a little clearer for you.

I only started this tx lark a months ago and I went straight for IVF so I do not have  any experience re IUI.  

Anyway taking your points in turn ……here goes:

1.	It seems as though you  are still trying to make up your mind whether to go for more IUI or IVF and from my read it is going to take you a little while to get your head round moving to IVF just now.  I would say go for another HSG or Hycosy and get your tubes checked out.  That way you will know for sure if you have a problem with the tubes or if your tubes just decided not to play ball on the day.  Yes it is more money but it is certainly less costly than IVF and you will then at least know your tubes aren’t blocked if you did meet the man of your dreams and decided to tcc the old fashioned way.  I can see you have not given up on finding love so you never know when it will come along.  As you said you have only had 3 goes at IUI and as a fertility coach said to me if you were trying to conceive the old fashioned way then that would only be 3 months of trying which is really not that much.  I guess the difference for us is each month it costs us money and the odds are pretty low.  It really is down to you and whether you move forward to IVF now or stick with IUI but as I see it time is still on your side so don’t feel too rushed just yet.

2.	Hopefully the open day at Create will give you some insight into natural/low dose IVF.  I saw a programme the other day about a lady who could not do full blown IVF for health reasons and she went to Create for low stim IVF and it worked well for her.  I had a chat with Reprofit about low stim IVF about a month ago and Stepan indicated it would cost around €800.  I haven’t followed up fully with this so I do not have a handle on the full costs just yet.  As I see it there is no harm in sending Stepan a quick email and get a tel consult.  You can get contact details via their website.

3.	Trying naturally would be fun   but it can bring it’s own complications especially if the chap was not aware of what you are up to.  As an aside, several years back my younger brother had a one night stand with a girl and she became pregnant as the result of it.  She told my brother of the baby after it was born.  My bro does have access to the child and he sees his son about once a fortnight but he really does not get on with his son’s mother.  This is a shame because my nephew is now 6 and he loves both of his parents but he can see they really can’t bear to be around each other because the only thing they have in common is their son.  My nephew is ok at the moment but I am sure one day he will realise he was not born as a result of love and I am not sure how this will affect him in the future. I also used to work with a chap who was basically used by an older lady for sperm.  Once again it was a one night stand, he met a lady in a bar and did the business.  The lady told my colleague about the baby and I believe he resented the situation at first but now accepts it.  The lady and his daughter do not live in the UK so he does not get to see his daughter very much but he does acknowledge that the child is his so trys to see her once or twice a year.  I guess it would be up to you if you went down this route to decide to tell the father or not but the point is the father could claim for access rights so you would have to be prepared for this.  You would also need to make sure your tubes etc were open since you would not want to be sleeping around just to find out you have problems in that area anyway.

I know going for donor sperm is an unconventional route but at least you would be able to tell any child born as a result of it that you made a considered choice and even the donor made a choice to help ladies like us have children.

4.	Once again your choice if you want to postpone and carry on looking for Mr Right.  Maybe you should give yourself a time limit so that you can review the situation in say 6 to 12 months time.  I originally looked at starting this journey when I was 36 but I got frightened off when I was told I should move straight to IVF given my fertility results.  It took me another 2 years before I started to actually try to conceive on my own.  I am now 39 and time is not on my side but I also know I can’t turn back the clock and so I am happy to live with the decision I took at the time.

5.	IVF – yes the odds would be in your favour given your age and so is worth considering.  I did not suffer too much from the drugs when I did IVF.  I did get a bit weepy towards the end but this was because I was also dealing with my dad’s illness so I think the drugs made me a bit over emotional.  Not everyone reacts badly to the drugs and the clinic would monitor you closely to ensure you do not have any adverse side effects.  I guess you could try IVF and if it didn’t suit you move back to IUI (especially since time is still on your side).

6.	China adoption – you are effectively on the waiting list at the moment and as you said it could take a long time before you get to the top of the list.  I think you are right not to put your life on hold whilst you wait since there is no guarantee that you will get your baby though I am keeping my fingers crossed that you do.  UK adoption might be an option.  My local authority has placed several white babies in the last couple of years so you might want to look for an agency which is looking for people which fit this demographic group.  Have you tried Coram?  They do an option called concurrent planning which is where you foster a baby and then work with the agency and the birth family but in all likelihood the baby would not return to the birth  family so you as foster carer would end up adopting the baby.  I believe only 3 agencies in the UK undertake concurrent planning and the babies chosen to go down this route are unlikely to be returned to their birth family.  It is a way of minimising the stress of moving for all parties.

I think I have covered all your points.  I am so sorry I have gone on a bit but take from it what you will.  Good luck with your decision process.

Love 

Sima


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## Felix42 (Oct 14, 2007)

Lulu, sorry you are struggling Hun.

I agree with the others that dating to meet someone is definitely not a good idea. That doesn't mean no dating but just keep the two entirely separate. Takes the pressure off both of you & who knows further down the line you might even be in Joe's position of the boyfriend trying to persuade you to have a child with him rather than the donor. 

Although my situation is very different to yours, there may be something worth passing on. I started off very optimistic - always have been & that'sprobably why I hung out for the whole package for so long. I had 2 iuis when my fsh was still looking good & then the whole thing just nose dived. Who knows whether an ivf instead of either of those iuis would have done the trick. I can't help thinking it would have had a pretty good chance and it would have been more cost effective. 

The sooner you get started too the longer you have for siblings as Muddy mentions and if you're lucky  then you could only need one ivf and FETs for your family. 

Wishing you all the luck in the world!

Love& hugs Felix xx


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## kylecat (Oct 18, 2007)

Hi Lulu - you have some great advice here and there is not much more that I can add! As I am around your age I thought I might comment on your situation. I am extremely glad that I started looking into this journey at 35/36 - fertility starts to really decline after this. 

I also wanted to 'hold out' for Mr Right but just got so scared that I wouldn't find him and then I'd be without a child and also a relationship. I had 3 medicated iui's and they were £1000 each, so not cheap! I'll never know how many IUI's it would have taken to have got me pregnant, maybe another 3 or 4 if you look at other people's track record on here who are around the same age as us. So I decided to go for IVF - it was just under £4000 which I'd have paid for a further 3/4 IUI's anyway. 

At the age of 35/36 IVF has quite a good chance of producing a positive result and I am SO glad that I went for it. Don't worry about the drugs, to be honest all you get is a little bit of bloating and also some mood swings etc but this whole journey is fraught with 'mood swings' due to the nature of exactly what we are all undertaking!  

I remember being scared of undertaking IVF and was going to leave it for another year until I was 37. I clearly remember a post from JJ1 telling me to go for it whilst time was on my side. She was right and I am so glad I listened to hers and other people's advice!

Hope that helps a little and good luck Lulu whatever you decide to do, 

Kylecat xxx


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## Maya7 (Sep 9, 2008)

Hi lulu

You have had some great responses so far ... and I think you're right that by writing things down you can think things out further... I may be way out here but reading your post, it seems to me that you are leaning towards considering exploring min stim IVF to see if single women are treated - you should also consider tx abroad with this in mind (I am a bit biased here though!) - then with this information you can compare the success possibility with having hycosy and continuing with more stimulated IUI ... there is some information missing to enable you to make a fully considered decision yet..

You have effectively ruled out the unsuspecting father option - I certainly agree there for everyone's best interest (yours, child's and 'father's') ... Sadly I think that the absence of a more conventional route is still causing difficulties for you and your understandable wish to try naturally ... I struggled with this myself for many years and it was a major factor in why I began this process late. With my ex, the not having a child together was an elephant in the room for many years. A friend of mine encouraged me to go against his wishes and interfere with the contraception and that he'd get used to the idea. i knew that was not a goer and how I managed to keep sane about it when all I wanted was _his_ child, I dont know ... i had to come to terms with this route before moving forward... and i have ... I couldnt have done so any earlier though and that is something that is so individual...

I cant help with the adoption issue though, sorry. Will a pregnancy mean that you cant proceed with the adoption from China? If so, you do need to factor this in to your decision.

Lulu, lots of luck with thinking things through. Its not easy and there is so much at stake that we owe it to ourselves to make the right decisions with full information.

Take care
Maya


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

Thanks felix, Kylecat, Maya, sima, Mini, JJ, muddy and rose....all your thoughts have been really helpful in helping me think about what's next. Thanks so much for taking time to read and think about it and give advice.  Am beginning to feel much more comfortable with idea of going straight to IVF, think you're right about age and needing to just go for it! Sometimes I am better when i just get a grip and get on!

Am off to GP and will ask about tube test on NHS but not sure I can be bothered about waiting too long as IUI rates are low anyway! Will also talk to Create about mild IVF and see what sort of timescale that is and email Reprofit.

I'm lucky that at the moment my social worker has agreed to take my case back to panel if I was to have a child and if they think I would be able to cope with adoption still, they would continue to recommend me, this is to do with the wait times in China being so long and the potential that i could have a birth child who was 2/ 3/4 before china adoption!

When I'm being philosophical, I feel that if IVF doesn't work then it wasn't meant to be and adoption was always meant to be my path...this takes the pressure off worrying about whether it works.

Anyway...just need to find out a bit more so I can really make my final decision, but your advice has been great in making me think that I should just be getting on with it...it always much harder when you're thinking about it all I find! 

ta everyone.
xx


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