# New member in middle of 2WW - does anyone feel as battered as me? ~



## Shania35 (Nov 23, 2007)

Hello. I'm in the middle of my 2WW and feeling very up and down.  A friend recommended this site so here I am.  

DP and I have been TTC for 1.5 years to no avail.  I'm 35, he's 41. My sister and all my friends have got pregnant 1st month which is very annoying and upsetting.  I have regular periods but FSH of 10 with PCO (without the syndrome); he has low sperm count with poor quality. Decided to give IVF a go and I'm now in the middle of my 2WW at Hammersmith Hospital. Everyone says IVF is hard but I never realised quite how hard.  

I took 150iu of Gonal-F for 10 days and started Orgalutran on Day 5.  1st week was a breeze.  Day 8 I started getting nausea and terrible headaches which lasted right up until the end of EC day. Day 10 my stomach started to swell up like a balloon and it got so bad by Tuesday this week I looked 5 months pregnant.  Went back to the hospital and they confirmed with blood tests and scan, that I don't have major OHSS so that's a relief. Now the bloating has started to subside a bit but i'm either constipated or have the trots. My lower abdomen still hurts if I cough or laugh. Apparently the progesterone suppositories can bloat you but I never imagined quite how much. 

Got 8 eggs at EC which I was delighted about but only 1 embryo which was very upsetting. ET was on Monday this week so i'll get my BFP or BFN next Friday.  What frustrates me is not knowing whether my eggs are poor quality or DP's sperm wasn't up to the job. 

Not feeling very optimistic and just wanted to know that other people are feeling like me.  I wouldn't mind feeling so crap if I knew I was going to be pregnant but as we all know there are no guarantees. It's so unfair when some people get pregnant at a drop of the hat, and we have to pay, suffer and then still deal with the disappointment. 

Would love to hear from anyone else at Hammersmith or anyone who's been on the same drug combo.

Good luck to everyone.
S

xx


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## LoisLane (Apr 26, 2007)

Hi Shania  

Sorry you are feeling so poorly!  I'm yet to start ICSI and am not looking forward to the drugs involved.  Keeping my fingers crossed for you and sending you lots of positive vibes, hoping you get your BFP!  

Other ladies will be along shortly, to point you in the right direction.  I do know there are boards for ladies on the IVF 2ww and a lovely mod Suedulux does a chat on tuesdays and thursdays at 11am for people to sound off in during the 2ww.

I'll blow you some bubbles for luck.

Louj x


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## Tiny21 (Jul 24, 2007)

Just wanted to send you some  , haven't had a similar experience as going through DIUI but the whole thing is rubbish and so so hard.  
Tiny


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## Shania35 (Nov 23, 2007)

Wow, thanks for the quick replies.  This site has already cheered me up enormously.  As I'm sure you know, your friends are always willing to listen but unless they've got fertility problems themselves they just don't understand. Feel i'm finally amongst like-minded people.  

Can i copy my message on to a 2WW board or is there a tread for people suffering from the drug side effects?  I'm finding this website a bit of a maze.

thanks girls
xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Hello! Welcome to FF - you'll find your way around in time. It's an absolute mine of info here.

The embryologist should have told you at embryo transfer what the quality of the eggs and sperm were like - considering only one fertilised that should have been explained.

Call the hospital on Monday and ask to speak to the embryologist who did your ICSI.

The constipation could well be due to the progesterone. Are you on the botty bullets? They are EVIL. I'm on the jabs, which don't do so much damage in the bowel department!

You were on a very low dose of Gonal F, so it's great that you got all those eggs. You could try wheatgrass to bring down your FSH and hopefully improve the quality of your eggs, if that is the issue. You can both take zinc, selenium and folic acid, and L-arginine for you.
I would recommend DHEA but I believe it's now recommended for PCOS - don't know about PCO. This helps with quality.

Was it IVF or ICSI? You may get a better fertilisation rate with ICSI.

xxxxxx


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## Shania35 (Nov 23, 2007)

Hi Miranda.  It was straight IVF. I asked the doctor (didn't meet the embryologist) whether the problem was the sperm or the eggs but she said she didn't know.  Wasn't pleased with that response and will take that up with the Consultant at my review if i get a BFN.  

Having done more research today, i think FSH level is often an indictator of the quality of the eggs.  At 10.1 I know mine is too high.  Think the problem is mainly on DP's side though but I suppose we'd only find that out if we tried ICSI. 

Must confess we live in West London and decided to go to HH on the basis that it's near and there is a connection with Lord Winston.  We are not rich so I'm guessing 2/3 courses of Tx will be our limit.  If we get a BFN should I try a different London clinic and if so which?  Not sure which are the best.  There is a lot of chatter here about the ARGC.  Says it has 50% success rate for people my age which seems fantastic. What i will say in the HH's favour is that it is very well run and the doctors and nurses are delightful. 

Been on the folic acid for 1.5 years and on zinc and selenium for the last 4 months so I suppose I'll find out in 7 days whether they've helped or not. 

P.s Yes I am on the botty bullets  You made me chuckle with that comment so thanks a million.

Miranda, you are a star

have a great weekend

xxx


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## Shania35 (Nov 23, 2007)

Miranda, Just read your bio.  I see after 3 attempts you've had the BFP so that's fantastic news.  Can I ask how you ended up with treatment in Istanbul? 

Really pleased for you 

x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I just thought I wanted to do it differently, and away from it all, as I was so stressed in previous treatments.

I looked around and picked the Jinemed because of it's great success rates and because they emailed straight back in a very positive way.

I am SO glad I went - they were fabulous.

xxx


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## LizzyB (Mar 25, 2003)

Hi Shania ~ welcome to FF  It is a bit daunting at first but you'll find lots of support here and loads of friends too.

I'll leave you the link to the 2ww thread where you can come and join all the others chatting while they wait:

NOV/DEC 2WW TESTERS ~ TTC with TX:
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=118989.285

Or you can find it by scrolling down the main index and looking for the Ladies in Waiting (2ww) board.

Loads of luck to you hun  

Lizzy xxx


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## Shania35 (Nov 23, 2007)

Thanks Miranda and Lizzy.  I can see that this can get very addictive. Will sign off for the day and go enjoy the Tudors on tele later.
Have a great weekend.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Oops! Just saw your first message!

Istanbul costs £3,000 including 17 nights in a hotel - the extra cost is meals out, flights at £130 each, expenses, but you'd certainly have a nicer time!

That's not good enough that she 'didn't know' - just not good enough. Where would you pay thousands for a service from a person that 'didn't know' things? That's bloody shocking. That doc should have made it her business to find out why only one fertilised.  

In the meantime, do ring up on Monday and find out from the horse's mouth - all the embryologists I've spoken to (three) have been really keen to share info.

Yes, I agree regarding FSH and quality. My FSH is fine and I've had good eggs - but my AMH is dire, which explains the lack of quantity! But you can work on quality - never fear.

The ARGC is really expensive - they're really good, but the Jinemed has about the same success rates and they treat anyone.

Maybe worth an email? www.ivfturkey.com

xxxx
/links


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## Mrs CW (Jul 12, 2004)

Shania the first thing your embryologist should do when you have low fertilisation from a perfectly decent crop of eggs is at least look at them to find out why.
I, like you had only one embryo on my first cycle, out of 10 eggs.  My FSH was not high.  But it was definitely my eggs - DP's sperm were checked again in the dish and were fine, my eggs were 'attracting them' as they were covered in sperm, but they told me the sperm were not getting through the outer layer - in other words I had tough shells!

So having been told all this on the phone by the embryologist, when I then went for ET, they sat us down after transfer and discussed our options in case it didn't work - it was basically ICSI - and the fertilisation rate improved considerably. 

Good luck and ask for some answers from HH.  They have a good reputation in other ways, so that is a bit of a surprise that the embryologist didn't know.

Claire x


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## emsy25 (Mar 18, 2005)

Hi,

Just wanted to say hello and welcome.  Good luck for test day.  

Emma
x x x x


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## Shania35 (Nov 23, 2007)

Miranda, you clearly are an expert on all of this.  I will consider the IVFturkey option in future.  As for HH, i shall find out what the story is there.  Looking at other postings I see other girls had their embryos graded.  I was simply told I had 1, that it was good and at the 4 cell stage 3 days after EC. Not really very helpful.  I would assume either my eggs are rubbish or DP's boys just aren't good enough. 
Seeing that other ladies on here have done as many as 8 ICSIs before conceiving I've still got a long way to go.
Take care
Shania
xx


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## maj79 (Jun 4, 2007)

Just wanted to say good luck on your 2ww


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Never assume! If you get to speak to the embryologist and find out what the issue was there's loads you can do to improve your chances. For instance, if it's sperm then the issue could be motility or quantity or both, and if eggs then it could be that their shells were too hard, or they were fragmented - really they need to tell you a lot more than 'you got one good one'.

And I'm no expert - I just kept badgering with the questions and the Googling etc - you learn stuff really fast when you're spending thousands, I find!

I would say the average is about three goes for success - some women are either luckier or unluckier of course, but don't despair. The national average is about 30 per cent I think, whereas at the ARGC, the Lister and the Jinemed you're looking between 50-60 per cent. Success is based on all sorts of factors, and luck is the big one, but the clinic you choose is also important.

When do you test? Do you feel positive sometimes? Any symptoms?

xx


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## Shania35 (Nov 23, 2007)

Miranda, i'm going for my blood test on Friday morning and will find out that afternoon.  Get occasional AF sensations and a slight pulling feeling on my lower left side but apart from that nothing so far.  Very sore breasts but I think that's another side effect of the botty bullets.  I have brief positive moments when I think i might get a BFP but then other times I just burst into tears I want it so much. 

Just got a bit overexcited watching Strictly Come Dancing when sexy Matt did his salsa.  Stamped my foot and jumped up in the air.  (I know i know how sad am I getting excited about a 20yr old!!).  Anyway as soon I did it I realised i was an idiot and might have dislodged Rio (as DP has nicknamed it).  On the other hand 5 days after ET I suppose it will either have taken or not by now. 

Read a book by Zita West yesterday saying you should just lie down for 3 days after ET.  I only did that for 1.  God I wish i'd done more reading before I started the Tx but I suppose you can get a bit  too obsessed by it all. 

Will definitely speak to the embryologist and see what they say.  

Thanks for being there

xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Don't worry about not lying down for three days! That seems a bit excessive to me!

Rio will be fine - you can't dislodge him, even if you got on a pogo stick (or the chap from Strictly).

Sore breasts are a very good sign - I got them this time and not last time.

I think joy is a very good emotion for Rio to have his mummy feeling, even if it's inspired by a 20-year-old dancer!

AND I'm still getting AF sensations at nine weeks, so fret ye not.

xxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## DizziSquirrel (Feb 15, 2005)

& Welcome to FF  Shania35  
 Reading your thread reminds me of why this site is so fantastic, the conversation between two people who have never met, the positve vibes the helpful advice and the links to other areas, all from people who really understand how emotional this journey is, I just want to wish you well for test day, whatever the outcome there is still loads to discover on here and someone to give a  
oh a say  to your friend for recomending you to us!
I am going to leave you some direct links to boards here on FF - that you may or may not have found, I encourage you to post in these areas to build friendships and support from members who really do have an understanding of your situation,

Turn off baby boards.
CLICK HERE

For Cycle buddies -
CLICK HERE

Starting out & Diagnosis ~
CLICK HERE

Meanings ~
CLICK HERE

FAQ ~
CLICK HERE

G&B  Community board
CLICK HERE

To make the site easier to navigate click on the index tab at the top of any page - pink hearts mean there is something new within the board you have not read/looked at and if you scroll right down you will see the last ten posts from all over FF all are clickable  if you refresh this page (f5) it will update the last ten posts as well as the boards/threads and who's online!!!
take some time to look at the *help tab* too 

Check out the *Locations boards* for your home town & a site search for your *clinic* 

Wishing you Friendship  &


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## Shania35 (Nov 23, 2007)

Thanks Dizzy.  You are a star.  Have a nice day.
xx


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## Kamac80 (Nov 24, 2005)

Hi and welcome to the site 

You have come to a fantastic place full of advice and support and i wish you loads of luck with everything.

Kate xx​


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## Caz (Jul 21, 2002)

Hi Shania, just wanted to say welcome to Fertility Friends. 

Lots of luck for this treatment cycle. I think the 2ww is the most nerve wracking emotional up and down part of the whole process. I could take any amount of the physical stuff involved but I the 2ww got me every time. 
Somewhere about the middle of it all a little gremlin comes along and steals all your positivity anyway. I think it's because that that point you know that it's either worked or not but it's far too early to find out either way. I know only having one embryo also makes you quite pessemistic but, I know of at least 2 ladies on the cycle buddies threads who got a BFP recently with one embryo so please don't assume that if t means things are doomed to start with. It's only over when the fat lady sings. 
I would highly reccomend getting yourself over to the 2ww folder where, I think you will be releived to discover, your thoughts and feelings at this time are shared with so many other ladies undergoing this experience. It will be a huge comfort to know that what you are feeling is normal (whatever normal when you have IF problems is anyway!  )

Wishing you lost of luck and  .  for the test on Friday.

C~x


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## Shania35 (Nov 23, 2007)

thanks Caz.  It's so good to be amongst friends here.  Am now following a few other threads too.
take care
x


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## Mrs CW (Jul 12, 2004)

Good luck tomorrow hun  

Claire x


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## Shania35 (Nov 23, 2007)

Sadly i got a BFN today.  Cried most of the afternoon but now trying to be a bit more positive.  I'm going back to HH in 3 weeks and will have it out with the consultant to find out why we had such a poor fertilisation rate.  In the meantime would appreciate any tips to get my bits healthier for next time.

Miranda7 recommended wheatgrass for lowering FSH and improving egg quality.  Does anyone know what that is and where to get it?  I will stick with the zinc and selenium but should I be drinking the pineapple juice now or is that only during treatment?

Can i also ask what the E2 test is?  Before the IVF I only had an FSH test and a scan. Should I ask for the E2 test next time?

Any other herbal options would be really appreciated; I don't care how bizarre they might sound.

I find that a whole Terry's chocolate orange is good for lifting spirits after the BFN but i'm sure my skin will pay the price tomorrow!

Roll on Xmas for a bit more distraction.

x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Hi Shania

So sorry to hear you got a negative - hope you can pick yourself up and feel a bit better soon.

Wheatgrass is available lots of places, including Holland & Barrett. i think you can get it in a drink.

The pineapple juice is to fatten your womb lining, so only during treatment.

There are more things you can take to lower FSH - search on these boards for lower FSH and you should get a few answers.

have some wine and pizza and a  

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Shania35 (Nov 23, 2007)

thanks Miranda.  Will keep searching.
hope you and the bump doing ok
x


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## Mrs CW (Jul 12, 2004)

Hi Shania
I'm sorry you got a BFN honey, it's so hard.  

If you want to read up on good things to do beforehand for next time, I'd recommend two books.

I see you have read  'Fertility and Conception' by Zita West - it has a whole chapter on IVF tx but the nutrition section for any form of conception is good, I still refer to it for good natural sources of vitamins!  

Also try Natural Solutions to Infertility by Marilyn Glenville - read it but don't read tooooooo much into it as she's a bit more picky, but has useful info on things like vitamins etc.

And definitely follow up why you got low fertilisation with HH.  It sounds like ICSI may well be a good next option.

Best of luck for next time.

If you're London based you might like to join us on the London Girls Board to chat in the meantime  

Claire x


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## DizziSquirrel (Feb 15, 2005)

I am so sorry to read your news hun

I hope that HH gives you some answers, I got my wheatgrass from a link here on FF, and the E2 is eastrodil I think its done routinly but were not told about it, however I only learned about it recently.

Heres a couple of Links to other areas of FF if you need them

ICSI Follow up Questions (use ones that apply)
CLICK HERE

Complimentry threapies ~
CLICK HERE

Negative cycle - 
CLICK HERE

 
~Dizzi~


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## Caz (Jul 21, 2002)

I am sorry to hear you got a BFN 

I can heartily reccomend the two books Claire (ceedubya) has suggested. I had both and well thumbed them before passing them on to another FFer (who has, when she gets her longed for baby, promised to pass them on too!)

C~x


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## Shania35 (Nov 23, 2007)

Caz/Claire and Dizzy.  Thanks for your support.

Claire, thanks for your tips.  I actually bought one of Zita West's books today before I read your post so how spooky was that.  You clearly send out very powerful messages even without knowing it.  Thanks, you're a star. I felt so low at the weekend and just couldn't stop crying, but 3 days on, with a bit more info under my belt, I feel like life isn't all that bad. After all I've still got chocolate and my lovely DP.

Dizzy, thanks for the wheatgrass and links.  Think I might try and join one of those newbie chat nights so that I get the most out of this website.  

Would definitely be interested in any good acupuncturists in West London.  I live in Ealing so if any of you happen to know someone 30 mins or so from here that would be fab.

Take care girls
S
x


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## Mrs CW (Jul 12, 2004)

Shania I don't know if he still practices in Ealing, he may now only be Windsor and Harley St, but I saw an acupuncturist called Daniel Elliott, he is a specialist in IVF and he used to practice from a clinic in Grove Road.  I believe he had alot to do with my BFP.

I think he may now only be in Windsor as he was only in Ealing on a Monday afternoon.

Have a look on the complementary therapy board on FF - loads of people on here see him and would recommend him, I recommended him to half the London Girls thread and they all see him!! 

Claire x


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## Caz (Jul 21, 2002)

Shania  Glad to hear that DH and chocolate is helping somewhat.

I saw an acupuncturist who specialised in fertility stuff in Cobham but I think that's a little bit far for you.  

Definitely worth giving it a go.

C~x


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## Shania35 (Nov 23, 2007)

thanks Claire for Daniel tip.  He does still do Ealing on Mondays so that's great.

Caz, I'm guessing you're talking about Janetta.  I know a girl who trained under her. She came well recommended but yes Cobham is a bit too far for me.

Had another recommendation from HH directly about a lady called Naava Carman so I'm going to check out her prices and info too.  she's in Harley Street.

Happy Tuesday girls
x


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## Caz (Jul 21, 2002)

Shania, no it wasn't Janetta, it was a Chinese fella. Can't even remember his name now (I have it somewhere though) but he was a very nice bloke.
I have heard loads of good things about Daniel though. I had no idea he worked from Windsor as well though.

C~x


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## Mrs CW (Jul 12, 2004)

Good that Daniel's still in Ealing, he was talking about giving up the clinic there when I last saw him.  I may well go back to see him again if my sciatica gets much worse!!  he's great for backs too!

Caz yes he has a practice at Windsor, he lives there.

Shania glad you're feeling a bit more positive.  A plan is always good. 

Claire x


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## 1watson (Dec 4, 2007)

Yes, I feel just like you do.  I wish I could think about something else and relax a bit - doesn't help that I am having tummy cramps.  This wait is just excruciating isn't it.  I hope the wait is worth it for us both.  Good luck!


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## DizziSquirrel (Feb 15, 2005)

Watson, If you read this thread through you will See Shania got a Negative result hun, Can I suggest you join the ladies on the "ww board, called "ladies in waiting" Good luck on your 

~Dizzi~


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## izora (Dec 6, 2007)

Shania I am really sorry that you got a BFN, but i am also happy that you are trying to move on and being more positive for a brighter future, i wish you all the best in what ever plan you decide to take.


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