# GMTV - this morning



## purplejr

Did anyone see GMTV this morning and the "article" they did about fertility.

There's no wonder that fertility treatment has such a bad reputation when they persist in reporting the inaccurate facts like they do.

Their implication was that couples going through tx have brought it on themselves by leaving it too late to start trying to conceive.

Just from reading the majority of the signatures on FF this is blatantly not true and it just gives the general public the wrong idea.

Even if I'd met my husband when I was 20 we'd still have the same problems due to male factor. And what about all the women suffering with PCOS and Endo not to mention premature menopause.

But no we've all just been selfish and put our careers ahead of our fertility.

Sorry for the rant but it just makes me so mad


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## holly01

hi purplejr 
yes i saw this and i also was annoyed with it esp prof whats his name..the poor lady Hannah told her story and explained how hard going throu ivf was and then when he spoke he was very flippant making out ivf was any easy optionalso he wanted to get us ladies to do more research into the problem and try and get it sorted but as we all know you can only attend the dr's so many times and they 9 out of 10 times just refer you on for fertility treatmentso what are we supposed to do??
myself personaly did want to go down the route of 'fixing the problem' so to speak and paid out a lot of cash to have my 2 blocked tubes reconstructed and this turned out unscessful...maybe if i had of used this £ on private ivf cycles we may have our much longed for family by now ??
sorry for the ramble


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## purplejr

Hi Holly,

Good luck with your tx and hope you get your BFP soon

xx


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## Cozy

I'm glad I didnt see this, I would have been very annoyed.

How can they say IVF is the "easy option"      

I havent been through half as much as some people and I've still spent thousands trying to find out what the problem is aswell as over £35k on IVF cycles themselves. Of which the NHS were not interested in doing as I was over 36 and they just said my infertility and miscarriages were "one of those things" and it was nature and just keep trying. How many times have we heard that !!

If the NHS hadnt fobbed me off so much I may have found out what the problem was earlier or even been successful at IVF as I would have been starting it earlier.

In my opinion, the NHS's failings, lack of knowledge, compassion and understanding force many people to spend often money they havent got on private IVF cycles. This may be classed as an "easier" route to some Dr's and ill informed people, but it is not easy - they should try it!

This professor whats it should read this website and read peoples heartbreaking stories and then tell us its an "easier option"

Here endeth my rant  

Cozy


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## Guest

..and anyway it is never too late; it is when it is right for us personally to have a child - only we can decide that individually and as couples - SO THERE GMTV!


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## emm-anj

that annoyes me, all that they've put their careers first, what? becuase we waited for the right man to come along? or becasue we've acutally contributed to soceity by earning money and paying taxes rather than sitting at home drwaing benefits and popping out sprogs?  That must be why we're all being punished by being infertile.  Grrrr


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## caz24

hiya,

i didn't see it but totally fed up with stories and stuff out there saying we left it too bloody late!   

caz xx


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## Claire7

How many of the presenters on that show have had babies in their late 30's early 40's.  Non story in my book.  Just annoying all of us!


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## ameliacooper

Didn't see it but ..... it's a very personal choice when people feel ready to have a baby and they shouldn't be made to feel bad for it (not that I agree with being a  new mum at 67 though!)

I would have been a rubbish mum in my 20s - I just wasn't ready nor was I in a position to have a baby!

Axx


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## kitten77

i saw this and actually shouted at the telly!   i would never wish infertility on anyone, but sometimes i want them to walk a day in our shoes just to have one day knowing the pain it causes.....


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ ©

I didn't see this but it really annoys me when you get the comments, especially from an apparent professional, who say you've left it too late   

I left it until I was 34 before starting ttc because the timing just wasn't right....some past relationships the guys weren't ready (not just me!!), then uni as mature student (no money to afford to look after a baby and me!), followed by being engaged but was in a very unhappy (abusive) relationship which I finally got out of and then single for few years (needed to trust men again !!!!).  I wanted to be in a strong, loving relationship & financially stable before starting ttc...is that so wrong ? Sometimes I feel it's a catch 22.....if I'd got pg at 16 then would've been told I'd had a baby too young (not by family though cos mum had me at 16)......but because I went to uni, enjoyed some life and then waited till I got with my current partner I'm now being told I may left it too late.....can't bloody win sometimes ! 

Good luck to everyone !  
Take care
Natasha


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## purplejr

Have you seen the BBC news website on the Have your Say Section?

Typically every respondent says that IVF should not be funded on the NHS as it is a lifestyle choice like cosmetic surgery or tattoo removal.

One even said that infertility never killed anyone. Would he like to prove that no one has ever committed suicide from the depression brought on by IF.


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## Lentil

i didnt see it but     
Babydust all round.
xxxx


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## emm-anj

OMG I can't believe it in the Have you say section - actually I can believe it;  note, if this was something that specifically affected men i.e. they got the most upset by it (but let's face it, they dont', and it's much more of a wrench in general to the women) then it would be free on the NHS for whoever wanted to do it (like tampons etc would also be free if men had periods - still don't see why we should have to pay for sanitary products).

deeply annoying people out there who have got no idea.  Really.


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## purplejr

Most of them are completely ignorant of what we go through for this and probably think treatment is no more than popping a couple of pills. I can't imagine many men would put up with the "intimate scans" and such that we have to.


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ ©

Makes me soooo angry !  A lifestyle choice huh ?   Of course, I chose to have severe endo as soon as I started my periods at 12, I chose to have raised NK cells, blood clotting problems, polyps, fibroid and adhesions.......of course, just my lifestyle choice to have those like I chose to have my tattoos and piercings....what utter tripe !  I may have chosen to wait before I started ttc but I certainly didn't choose to have the gynae problems I have. 

I often wonder whether these people who respond with such ludricous comments have any idea of what infertility/fertility problems/IVF actually entails....and since the majority don't appear to have any understanding at all, what gives them the right to judge ?  I bet you none of these respondants know anyone who's ever been effected because if they did they would realise the heartache.

Anyway, I'll   

Love, luck & sticky vibes
Natasha x


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## kitten77

dont shut up minxy! i totally agree!!!! arggh


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## Fran (Eva04)

Yes but have you thought about the type of people who contribute to these forums - generally pretty thick - all you have to do is look at the terrible grammar and spelling. Ignorant and poorly educated people!! x
There will always be people who have issues with IVF and the people you hear shouting out the most are those who are against it. They probably smoke and drink etc.


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## Lentil

Fran - I love your signature about sliding into the grave sideways. xxx


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## Bratt

I would like to shake these people by the neck!!! Ok so I was 28 before I decided I wanted to be a Mom, I never asked for 2 Ectopics, and when people say 'oh.....don't you get those because you've had vd?'  NO I FLIPPIN HAVEN'T!!!! 
I would like them to try a week with our emotions...........no make that a year


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## emm-anj

Bratt that made me laugh "don't you get that because you've had VD?"  I can't believe the nerve of people saying that to you?!?!


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## Bratt

People drive you nuts


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## Truffle80

I missed GMTV but was Kate Garraway anywhere nearby seeing as shes in her 40's and currently pregnant.


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## AmandaB1971

Truffle80 said:


> I missed GMTV but was Kate Garraway anywhere nearby seeing as shes in her 40's and currently pregnant.


Kate Garraway's off on maternity leave ironically having just given birth again in her 40's!

I didn't see it, but it is aggravating and sadly there are more and more of these programmes popping up on telly all the time! perhaps all those of us with IF should boycott the telly licence for a bit that would make them sit up and take notice and see the scale of the problem we face!  

Axxx


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## Truffle80

It's an absolute disgrace - I am so shocked by the ignorance and callousness of some people regarding IF!


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## grotbags

I didn't see any of this, but what about the gmtv weather girl Clare?  How do the programme producers think it made her feel?  She spoke openly about her fertility problems and I'm sure the baby was conceived with IVF as she spoke about having frozen ones too.

Why do people think we've brought this on ourselves?  What's wrong with wanting a stable relationship and loving environment first?  As Purple says most of us have been trying for years not just because we think our body clock is ticking.

And don't get me started on today's news item about how IVF differs across the country - I was gobsmacked to read/hear this.  In the North East we are all given 3 goes as standard and my waiting list was only a few months - i can't believe its so different for others around the country - how unfair!


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## purplejr

We only got one go free on the NHS and have had to fund 2 further cycles privately. If this last one hadn't worked I don't think we could have afforded another.


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## Truffle80

No funding here because i'm under 30 despite high FSH levels and once you have paid for a private cycle in wiltshire you can no longer claim for one on the NHS once you do hit 30!!!

IVF has cost us approx £20k and while I don't regret a penny of it, it does seem unfair that others in the same boat have had funding because they live 5 miles up the road.


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## Be Lucky

Dear truffle.that doesnt seem fair-that seem 2 catch whatever u do or dont do.they didnt really explain the funding or necissity of tryin ivf before 40 for better success rates.we also paid 20k for unsuccessful ivf treatment.but i conceived naturally in jan and feel babes moving as i text and i was 44 last sunday!me on internet on mobile so cant c ur results but i wish u luck.never give up hope!sorry 2 go off gmtv but had 2 post.was pleased 2c that claire naisir conceived after many years of problems.berniex


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## Truffle80

Be Lucky - I'm currently pg with twins after 3rd tx so I am lucky it all did "pay off" in the end!!!

Lovely you got a natural BFP after all that trying and expense - huge congrats!!


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## Becs75

Hi Ladies, 

I did see this programme and I think it was based on a report in Red magazine about leaving it late to ttc (I haven't read this article)...they had a lady on the sofa who had tried with IVF for a few years with no success and then got pg naturally...Dr Robert Winston was also there and as some of the other ladies said, his comments were: "Too many people go straight to IVF without looking at the actual cause of infertility"....erm I doubt that very much as I feel (after 2.5 years ttc) I have jumped through many hoops with all the testing and prodding that's been done to me...IVF will be my last resort as I'm sure it is for any ladies/ men with problems or unexplained infertility!

I agree with other ladies on here too - GMTV were just trying to sensationalise the report by asking why NHS money is spent on IVF etc when really they should have been a bit more sensitive about Claire Nasir the weather lady who has spent 8 years with fibroids and other problems and a couple of failed cycles of IVF before she finally got her own wonderful news!

I seem to remember something in the discussion as well (or could have been somewhere else) which states that whilst the money comes from NHS, it is up to the PCT to "dish out" the funding where they see fit and that in some ways they actually make money from the NHS by charging more than the IVF cycle costs...this leftover money then goes on other areas within the PCT...

Its all a farce how the NHS & PCT's are run I think - I know its a big old thing to have to organise but you would think they could bring all protocols in order throughout the UK rather than the postcode lottery which seems to effect everything

Phew - went on a bit there - sorry!!!!!


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## PinkPeacock

I'm very sorry I left it to late to TTC. I guess after one year of uni and at the age of twenty I had obviusly focused on my career for far too long. How selfish of me.   

Very annoying that this lack of information still prevails. Of course there are older women having IVF but there's also younger people and people who've tried to find their perfect match for years. My brother's God Mother is 47 and got married two years ago for the first time. She'd just never found the right man. After meeting her husband she tried for a year then went to Spain. She's now pregnant and instead of people being happy for her they're condeming her for spending that money and being selfish for bringing a child into the world at such an old age.   Surely it is her own choice. Its her own money she's spent and she and her husband made the decision to have a baby together. 

I've been told by a Christian friend that I will never get pg usng IVF as I'm killing the embies I don't use so why should God allow the ones we do use to grow.    I have friends who have told me I should use the money I've spent to go on holiday or buy a bigger house. Why should I? It's my choice! If I want to pour all my money into IVF then it is up to me and OH. 

Thing is, you can't have any sort of rational conversation with the people who make these derogitory comments on message boards as they aren't prepared tolook past the ends of their own noses.


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## Lucille33

I daren't even look at the bbc website it would be too upsetting! how is it a lifestyle choice? ok so maybe not that many people have died from having if, but the nhs funds lots of things that aren't terminal! should the nhs only fund terminal illnesses then and leave everyone else to fend for themselves?!

it's not a choice between paying for children with cancer and ivf! the nhs should be funded well enought and well run enough to pay for both!! how about all the offices that lie empty with the nhs paying the rent? or the layers of beauracracy (hmmm I don't know how to spell that so looking a bit uneducated myself there!).  surely those with if are a more worthy cause in most people's eyes or is there underlying sexism and even misogyny at work?!?

here in ireland there is no nhs and everyone has to pay anyway, but here they've just announced ivf has been singled out from a drug payment scheme where you only have to pay €100 per month for prescriptions, ivf is now only going to be funded on this scheme for 3 cycles here, after that we'll have to pay for our drugs as well as the treatment itself!!  

it is so frustrating - how are we supposed to change how the media reports and what all those ignorant people say?


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## grotbags

Pinkcarys - I can't believe those people are still your friends.  I have never heard anything so insensitive in my life.  Good luck with this cycle


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## PinkPeacock

Guys, I can't believe this. I only just today posted in this thread that my brother's God Mother was pg at the age of 47. My post is about three post above. 

I've just found out that she was born early, and was weighing just 0.29 kg. She was perfect but too small for this world. I'm so sad for them. She tried everything to get pregnant and so many people were against them doing so. Now this.

Please join me in praying for the sweet baby Lois who was too small for our world.    I just can't imagine the pain her parents are in.


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## Be Lucky

I agree. That not very christian.  Maybe I just been lucky but people very happy for us as we struggled for so long. I saw red magazine in shop - gonna buy it presently.  Hope it don't upset me. Good luck to all ladies testing.

Berniex


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## vickym1984

pinkcarys-I am so sorry to hear about your brothers Godmother, I will be keeping her and her husband in my prayers

I will also keep your other friend in my prayers, that God shows them how hurtful they are being. I am a Christian and will have IVF if it comes to that, after many a year soul searching with God because so many Christians seem to be against it.


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## PinkPeacock

Thanks. It really surprised me and he is no longer someone I consider a friend. I have been very open about this round of IVF at my Church and everyone there has been amazing. I was very hurt by my friends reaction so was worried about telling people at Church but they've all been so supportive.


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## roze

I just think its summer, theres little to report on swine flu as its on the back burner a bit until the autumn, and little going on in parliament due to the summer recess, and everyone has either forgotten the recession or are too depressed to think about it,so what better fodder for lazy journalism than people trying to conceive.  There has been such a rash at the minute and I have personally found it very upsetting. I never watch GMTV nor do I want to again. My faith in Robert Winston is fast disappearing. He seems to swing back and forth on IVF anyway.

A better strategy might be just not to watch these programmes or read the Daily Mail. Difficult I know but try and avoid these programmes and you wont be hurt by it.

roze


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## ♥AngelBumps♥

Mmmm, nobody never died of infertility...? Well, look at my siggie. I NEARLY did....
Had to have my life saved by 4 surgeons because of my NHS GP ignoring my symptoms for about a year.
A year of agonising pain left me with 4+hours of life-saving surgery and a lifetime infertility.
The NHS put ME in this situation. I didn't make myself infertile... an NHS GP did.
I pay my taxes and NI contributions, whilst I struggle so that I can pay for infertility treatment. A nice pot of money going back to my PCT so they can put that money towards some 16 year old slappers to have their abortions taken care of.
IVF an easy option? Let them try mood swings at work and at home, due to expensive drugs, every day a stage of getting over a hurdle of immense proportions, local anesthetic, limping around due to sore injection sites, trying to find somewhere to take personal phone calls from the ACU whilst sat at work earning my TAX/NI for the government. Ringing the ACU only to find it constantly engaged... private...? No, self-funded, so still getting NHS treatment, but unlike everyone else in the country, paying for it. Having to have constant blood tests and scans, driving here, there and everywhere and balancing this with work. Having to lie to freinds, family and work. Having to wee into a jug at work and measure every millilitre of fluid intake and OUTTAKE for 3 weeks... then getting your F****G period 4 days before your pregnancy test.

Yes, I'd say this is a really easy option.

F**K GMTV, they are NOT the voice of the nation. Girls (and boys) don't listen to them, Karma is all I'm saying... the presenters pop them out like sweets, they think they are 'yummy mummys'  with their nannies whilst they parade around the red carpet - wait until one of their sisters, brothers or cousins have to go through this... they should hide their faces in shame.


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## purplejr

The BBC are at it again now. Should all women who haven't had kids by the time they are 30 should have fertility tests done on NHS. Again implying that everyone going through tx has deliberately left it late. No mention of tests for male fertility though it's on the decline.

They are definitely on slow news time at the mo.


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## lougla

I am 36 and my hubby is 32.  We are both fairly fit and healthy, don't drink to excess but we still didn't get pregnant.  Turns out its because of hubby's sperm .. so the fact I am 36 has nothing to do with it but I can tell that people don't think that's the case .. I've so far only really told 2 friends and though both have been supportive both seemed very surprised to know the "problem" wasn't with me .. (yeah cheers ladies).  Even just getting to the stage of having the HyCosy done (next week for me) has been relatively stressful and time consuming, I dread to think how the rest of it will be ... but yet how can anyone consider that the "easy option"?  And considering the varying degree of success rates that makes that statement even more stupid.


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## roze

Its also interesting that no one has brought up either the dreadful attitudes to children in the UK and also the costs of housing , all of which have a bearing on decisions to have children. I only met my current partner when I was 32; prior to that I was working hard to make ends meet, to pay my London mortgage and to pay off my student loan which I took out in 1988 for a postgraduate course, the only real way to boost my earning power. Oh of course, there was my mother who was permanently hospitalised a decade earlier and who was very ill . Enough to occupy me as I had to travel to Ireland every 6 weeks in order to keep an eye on things.  We had just gone through a recession where jobs were hard to come by and keep, and house prices had just crashed as repossessions soared. My partner was in temporary jobs and then I lost both my parents in 1991 and 1993 all of which affected me greatly especially my fathers as I then experienced difficulties with the rest of my family who tried to get my inheritance off me. I also went through redundancies in 1996 and 2001. By that time I was in late 30s and found it hard to conceive for reasons unexplained but transpired to be male factor.  It was only when the inheritance thing was sorted out in my early 40s was I able to consider private fertility treatment. After several years and several thousand it then transpired that DHs sperm was so poor all previous attempts were just never going to work.

Having had one child and am now expecting twins, I am now aware of the negative attitudes towards children and families in the UK. Things are very tough financially. I lost my job of 7 years when my employer decided to make me redundant than to offer me the required flexible working pattern. My new employer decided to unduly delay my start when they found out I was pg. The recession has made many business child friendly but overall, restaurants and cafes are just really not that welcoming. Single parents as indeed all mothers seem to be treated as the scourge of the earth. Last week I took my child on public transport in the morning rush hour- you should have heard some of the comments about how we had no right to take her on the tube at such as busy time as she did not have to pay! The UK compared to France at least is not that tolerant or accepting of children and would prefer them not to be seen nor heard. I was in a cafe a year ago with a friend who was thrown out for breastfeeding.  Perhaps these programmes ought to be looking at the wider picture?  People I worked with go to great lengths to accommodate work and family life to the extent that they move miles out of London to find cheaper accommodation and then spend 4 hours a day commuting. Not good.

I am just so sorry therefore not to have been born rich so as to afford to have my problems sorted out earlier as if I had been I probably would not have had to leave things to my early 40s when life was more settled and more financially secure. I would loved to have children by my late 30s but circumstances prevented me . Terrible me for wanting some financial security before we brought a child into the world ( aka ' prioritising my career above everything else') 

I am not one for expletives on websites but don't you just want to tell these [email protected]@dy people to  F OFF?


roZE


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## Caz

Becs75 said:


> ...Dr Robert Winston was also there and as some of the other ladies said, his comments were: "Too many people go straight to IVF without looking at the actual cause of infertility"....


Well to be absolutely fair to Robert Winston - and I know he's said something similar in the past that got everyone slightly... um... annoyed - he has a point.

I'm not suggesting that *we*, as patients, are walking into consulting rooms and demanding IVF NOW thankyouverymuch, but that consultants and doctors themselves are treatment orientated rather than focussing on investigatory. Many seem overly keen to refer people for some kind of treatment rather than actually get fully to the bottom of things. In my case I was prescribed clomid based on one single "day 21" progesterone result that showed my issue was supposedly ovulation. I took clomid for 8 months with no luck before he referred me for further tests that revealed I had a blocked tube and PCO and, combined with endo (which he already knew I had) gave me about a snowball's chance in hell of getting DH's slightly dodgy sperm to meet egg.  Furthermore, it wasn't until much, much later that I found out "day 21" was far too early to test my progresterone given my then cycle length and in fact, on a later natural FET cycle I saw that I do, indeed, ovulate after all! All in all, I wasted a year faffing about with a "treatment" and follow ups that had no chance of working. Oh how naive I was then. 
Ok that's a fairly unusual example but there are a lot of people who have not completely insurmountable problems that, with the right support and guidance and the right treatment, could help a couple conceive without IVF. One example is male factor. Ok, there are plenty of cases where severe male factor is insurmountable with anything other than ICSI but how many people come away from a consultation with some kind of mild to moderate male factor diagnosis and are given any advice or support on what (if any) lifestyle changes they couple can make to improve sperm, or what investigations or treatment options there might be as to why there are MF issues. I certainly wasn't, depsite my DH's sperm being slightly below borderline. A quick perusal on the MF boards here and you will see that there are, sometimes, treatments available that can improve sperm quality and numbers, even kick start sperm production and perhaps avoid invasive and costly IVF. Likewise with unexplained. It's almost like you get your HSG (or Lap and dye) your hormone tests, your SA and if there's nothing obvious there, you're Unexplained and the NHS either stick you on a waiting list sometimewhen or wash their hands of you if you're not lucky enough to qualify for funding. There are so many other possibilities as to why someone might be failing to get pregnant and I've seen so many people on FF report their previously unexplained diagnosis become explained after multiple failures, heartbreak and eventually, extra testing, usually at their own expense. I have also seen some of the quality of testing offered at some clinics (primarily abroad but some in the UK are as thorough) that you just don't get as routine on the NHS. Ask anyone who is Unexplained and I imagine they would give anything to have a reason for their IF - if only something to focus their frustration onto.

I have to wonder if the NHS actually did some much more thorough investigations and support prior to jumping into treatment for some cases, whether they might be able to avoid IVF completely for enough people to free up funding for those where there is no other option. That's a win win scenario in my view.
I suspect that, as PCTs are presurised into actually providing the funded cycles they have been told to under N.I.C.E. guidelines, they might start getting more willing to get to the root causes and dealing with them. At the moement the chances of you getting funding are fairly slim so packing you off and saying you need IVF works out quite cheap for the NHS!

Having said that it's the system that promotes this attitude, I guess the majority of us have already been trying a long by the time we go to the doctors we're chomping at the bit to get started on actually making a baby. Perhaps there is a "pressure" (or it's perceived) on consultants to get things moving treatment wise.



Lucille33 said:


> it's not a choice between paying for children with cancer and ivf! the nhs should be funded well enought and well run enough to pay for both!! how about all the offices that lie empty with the nhs paying the rent? or the layers of beauracracy (hmmm I don't know how to spell that so looking a bit uneducated myself there!). surely those with if are a more worthy cause in most people's eyes or is there underlying sexism and even misogyny at work?!?


In theory you are correct but in actual practice there simply isn't enough money in the pot and, often for PCTs, it _is_ a question of chosing to fund one thing over another. A lot of that is bad money management and things, as you rightly point out, need to change drastically to put money back into diagnosing and treating patients instead of pen pushing beaurocrats (no, I can't spell it either so we can look dumb together!  ). I wish it was different but, frankly, I think the NHS is just going to continue to struggle until somebody has the courage to overhaul the whole system and realise that we'd all much rather have an excellent health service all round than be bombarded with league tables and choices.

As for the whole We've-all-left-it-too-late mentality. Meh! Who the heck is it anyone's business to tell me when I'm ready to have a baby anyway! The reason so many IVF patients are in their 30s and older is because they have to jump through so many hoops and wait that long to actually get around to being treated. 
I tend to do, as Roze, and ignore this kind of rubbish who-shall-we-pick-on-today reporting if I can.

C~x


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