# Hypothalamic Amenorrhoea (no periods)



## Patches

I'm starting this thread because I've come across a growing number of ladies in the same position as me, and I'd love it if we could exchange info and help each other.

So what is HA? I'm not a scientist but very briefly it's when the signals to the brain to produce the pulsatile hormones we need for reproductive function get turned off because the body thinks it's in starvation mode. Bearing a child takes a lot of calorie energy and fat, and so it's one of the first functions to go when the body feels it needs to conserve energy. For most people with HA it's caused by caloric restriction, or by excessive exercise - and it becomes obvious when your periods stop (or don't start again after coming off the pill). However, the threshold at which this happens is very different for different people and it doesn't necessarily go with being excessively thin, or running miles and miles every day. Similarly, many female athletese do maintain reproductive function despite having very low body fat. In other cases HA can be triggered in women who were previously overweight, especially if weightloss is rapid. The most important thing anyone in this position should learn is that there is no point comparing yourself to anyone else - it's YOUR body and it responds in its own way. And if you want to have a baby, you need to learn to be kind to it and let it reach the level it needs.

HA is a diagnosis of exclusion - ie when other things are ruled out. However, most women with HA will have normal to low hormone levels, and especially oestrogen (which is produced in fat cells). Some are also mis-diagnosed as having PCOS (polycystic ovaries) because they often have a good follicular reserve which makes their ovaries look polycystic. Essentially everything is there, it's just waiting to be turned back on again.

Recovering from HA is hard because it so often goes with lifestyle factors like exercise and what we see as a healthy diet, which are hard to break. However, the good news is that it is usually very curable with these lifestyle changes. I hadn't had a period for three years after coming off the pill but after gaining weight have finally just had one on my own. It took a big change of mindset to accept getting heavier, but it really does come down to deciding whether you want a baby or not. Of course for some people it's not that easy and many will still need a helping hand from medical science, but it's a good place to start and can only help with the way you respond to treatment.

I won't go on any more for now but a really good source of information from someone who's been through it is an American blog at www.noperiodbaby.blogspot.com. If you click on the HA label in the sidebar you'll see that the author (Nico) has written up several studies on HA and has also summarised her experience with a lot of women in this position on the US equivalent of FF. She also links to that web forum if you want to take a look. I'll summarise some more of the info she's posted here later on.

I hope this will be useful to some more people on these boards - if nothing else it will show you that you are NOT alone, and NOT a medical anomaly, which is exactly how I felt for years before I came across Nico's blog. Unfortunately in today's healthy eating and stick thin model culture it's an increasingly common situation for women to find themselves in and one that sharing information and support can only help with.

xxx

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


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## laird

Hi,

I'm in the same position and glad of any help/advice. Diagnosed with HA a year ago and put on the required weight as soon as I was told to do so. I still haven't had a period and two goes at the provera challenge didnt kick start my periods as was hoped. Feeling pretty grotty because ive laid off the exercise and been eating LOTS and more unhealthy food but still no sign of a period never mind getting pregnant!  

Next week I am having an MRI to rule out a pituatury tumour and hoping to get some oestrogen injections to see if that makes any difference. I have a packet of Clomid which I was prescribed to take after a period, sitting on my table..... but I have been told it won't work for me until I get a period (although there is some research which shows this isnt necessarily the case and im thinking of taking it along to my next appointment..... )

It seems from all the information that i have read that putting on weight is the best thing for us HA ladies to do but that most end up needing a 'jump start' or is this because we are impatient and want treatment to sort out what our bodies would have done naturally if given the chance?  I dont feel like ive got loads of time though (im 33 in january) and i am definitely not known for my patience!


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## andymay

Hi Patches, Stacey
I'm an "HA girl" too. Similar cause - lost a lot of weight and periods stopped; like you, Stacey, mine haven't returned even tho I'm now normal BMI. I do still exercise but not as much as I did - my consultant thinks that for some people it's difficult to flick that switch back on. It can take time tho so hang on in there. 
I skipped the detailed investigations (after failing privets challenges twice as well) and went straight to tx as I felt time wasn't on my side. I took - and still take - hrt just to function (oestrogen deficiency is NOT fun) and I'm awaiting a 2nd course of IVF after some surgery to clear a blocked tube. Ideally, tho, I want to address the base cause - like both of you - so we have decided that my long-term goal is to see an endocrinologist and get a more detailed assessment.
I'm going to leave it there for now as am typing this on phone rather perilously but I just wanted to say hello and how great it is not to be alone. Very much wanting to hear other people's stories. 
AM xx


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## laird

Hi Patches and Andymay,

I'm struggling with all the acronyms, is there somewhere to find out what they mean?  

How do you go about seeing an endocrinologist (I'm assuming you are in the UK AM?)

Patches, how did you go about getting a period before you used the clomid, did you have to go back on the pill or did you get injections?

I understand what you are saying about not wanting to wait, it sure does seem like a long process.. at least we have a diagnosis though I suppose...

MRI next week and appointment about injections, finally could I be getting some treatment?!.....


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## Patches

Hello!

I'm *so* glad we've made contact as I know exactly what you mean about feeling really alone in this boat 

Good question, Stacey - a lot of the acronyms are explained here
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=190482.msg2945198#msg2945198

I think you're both absolutely right about the idea of a kick start, especially since a lot of women only come off the pill and realise there's a problem when they're ready to start trying to conceive. The good news is that since we tend to have lots of follicles sitting around waiting to be called on, the IVF success rates are decent for us. However it can take a while to wake them up and I think I'm quite typical in having been slow to get going on injectables and then eventually over-responding. But we've obviously all taken the major first step of wanting to address the underlying cause and I really hope we all get there on this!!

I've been quite frustrated that doctors don't seem to know much about this (though it's good they've told us to put on weight I suppose). I had a horrible appointment with one consultant who said that my problem was all weight related but wasn't at all supportive about this being a hard thing to overcome and acted as though I wasn't taking it seriously at all. She was responsible for the worst lows of this whole process so far! I know that gaining weight should be much easier than having to lose it as many women with infertility problems do, but it doesn't stop it being a hard psychological process.

I'm so sorry to hear you have added complications just now, Andy, and I hope that all gets sorted asap so you can get on with your IVF cycle. And good luck with your scan, Stacey! Let us know what the doc thinks of the new treatment protocol - I'll post some more here about that as it looks like a promising way to get that kick start for HA-ers.

I've always been given norothisterone to get a bleed before starting treatment, which I think is basically the same as provera. Some of the ladies on the US thread at fertilethoughts.com seem to go back on birth control for a month. It might be interesting to see if you get a bleed from provera having gained some more weight, but if you think your doc's going to veto the clomid because you haven't responded to it before I'd push the fact that you don't really need a start bleed when it's clear that your hormone levels are lurking on the floor anyway (as all of ours are!).

Lovely to 'meet' you both anyway, and I hope we can continue to be helpful and supportive to each other!


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## andymay

Hi Patches & Stacey
Just a quick post as am on train home (with a g&t!). The combination of this and iPhone cld make this post an interesting one! 
Stacey, best way to see an endocrinologist is thru your GP - you should be able to get a referral - where are you based? I know of one v good one in the London area - if you pm me (private message) I'll give you his details. I haven't seen him but hear he's very good. Really really hope yr scan is ok next week & agree with Patches that you shld push for clomid if there's a chance it could work. Will keep all x'd for you.
Patches is right, tho, HA sufferers generally have v good outcomes from fertility tx - our ovarian reserve is usually good (my AMH is 46, ie very strong) & we're normally fine once we get going. Completely agree that this is a little known area, and we're not that common, so we need to keep pushing for what we know to be best options for us. My dh does a lot of work in the field of hormones etc & is v good at pushing for things ie HRT, short protocol IVF etc. He's also v good at answering qs so I'm happy to pass them on!
That's all I have time for at the mo but will pop back soon.
AM x


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## Patches

Hello!

I think the G&T sounded perfect, Andy! How are things going for you - what's the next stage with treating the endo?

I'm interested that your doctor is hot on hormonal stuff - no one has ever suggested I go on hrt (except to support a cycle) and it was only in my most recent appointment that the doctor suggested I should go back on the pill while we were having a break. To be fair we've always been supposedly having treatment but in fact I've had long gaps when I've been unsupported by hormone treatment. I had a bone density scan a month or so again but don't have the result yet - I'm a bit worried about that but there's nothing I can really do since I've always done a lot of weight-bearing exercise. And of course I'm glad now that I didn't go back on the pill because I wouldn't have had a natural cycle.

On that note I'm still feeling really frustrated at the lack of a second one though  I'm on day 40 plus now, and while I know that's not uncommon when getting cycles back I don't feeling I'm having any signs of ov any time soon. I had a lot of mild cramping at the end of last week, but my temps didn't really go up and I've had no symptoms since so I don't think that can have been it. Sorry to moan about that - it's just all rather stressful and poor dp had to cope with me being rather tearful about it on Sunday.

Stacey - good luck for your appointments this week - let us know how they go!!!

I owe you both a pm - will get on to it! xxx


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## laird

Hi,

It's so frustrating isn't it, this whole thing?!  I was supposed to have an appointment tomorrow but they have just cancelled me, because of the Consultant's ill health. They say there is no point me seeing the Reg because everything has to go through the Consultant. How can one person hold so much power? (we have been cancelled twice before and the person we saw seemed to know as much about fertility as my GP)
I don't know about seeing an Endocrine specialist, do you see a fertility specialist as well?
I guess at the moment I want to trust/believe in someone and I desperately want that to be the person that we are seeing (if we ever see him) 
I weighed 10 stone 4 this morning - big for me - and not doing much exercise either the least my body could do would give me a few signs it was making a difference.

So how are you two, any progession?  xx


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## Patches

Bleurgh - that's *SO* annoying, Stacey!! I'm so sorry you've been let down after the build-up. Have they rescheduled? Do you still have the scan appointment (was that today)? I try not to pin too much on what the docs say any more, but instead go in with the questions we want answered and the plan I'd be happiest with.  And I really empathise on the uncertainty/weightgain//what the hell's going on thing too. I know it's so hard to keep believing but it's truly the best thing you can be doing yourself for now. If it's any help I didn't have a single sign that anything was going on until I actually ovulated I think (and that was only a tiny bit of CM, and sore nipples for a day). At the very least gaining some weight isn't going to do any harm and will almost definitely help you with treatment, and at best (and it's a good chance best) it will get something going on its own. It's a good sign that you've gained this last bit quite quicky as I gather that helps a quick response from your body.

Please do hang in there and come over here for a bit of a rant any time you need it (not that you were ranting just now).

I'm still up and down constantly but feel bad for being such an old misery guts in my last post so sorry about that. Even two months ago I was only dreaming of ever having a natural period again so I should at least take some heart. Like you, I just wish I had some clue as to what was going on. 

I hope neither of you is too snow-bound! xxx


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## Patches

PS, jsut to make you laugh - yesterday I was really weirded out that I seemed to be peeing orange - definitely nothing as worrying as blood, but as if I'd been pouring tizer straight through myself. I even convinced myself that luteinizing hormone might have done it but an opk was negative. Eventually I thought a bit more laterally and realised it must be the excessive amount of beetroot I ate the day before - I'd bought some cooked from the greengrocer and it looked so lush I ate two big balls of it in one go! Honestly - seeing signs of ttc everywhere!


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## laird

Hello there,

So when do you think you OVd (think I'm getting the hang of some of these acronyms!)  nice one, its good to hear that things are definitely happening for you even if its not as quickly as you would like.

I kicked up a real fuss because they tried to book me in for January instead, bearing in mind we only saw a Reg last time as the Consultant was in a meeting, so they are seeing me next week. Poor hubby cant really take another day off though so thats a bit annoying. 
Had my MRI, and even though im sure its fine you cant help thinking that they are all gathered round my slides at the moment waiting to tell me i need to make a will....

On a happier note ive decided i cant keep waiting to see what they have planned for me and ive booked to go to cuba for two weeks on the 31st dec. Im not exactly looking forward to trying on my bikinis.... theres definitely a lot more junk in my trunk.... 

BTW... love bul eating beetroot too so i couldve warned you about the interesting side effects!

Have a good weekend xxx


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## Patches

Morning!

I'm glad you  got another appointment before January - but what a faff! Did they tell you straight away that the MRI was fine? I've read several cases where people have had some sort of thing on their pituitary but it's been completely benign so I hope you're not worrying.

I'm really not sure if I ov'd or not - I'd say not given my low temps, but I really have no idea any more! I wonder if the waves of cramping are my body trying to do something but not quite getting there. That's still a good sign, I suppose. I've kept my weight stable since last time but if the borderline is that fine it could be a matter of an extra pound or two. I alternate between feeling meh about how I look and resolving to eat more! I'll maybe hold off on going quite so mad on the beetroot - maybe I'll go for green pee next time and start in on the asparagus.

Sorry I *still* haven't replied to your last pm by the way but I hope you're feeling ok after the bike accident. I had just the same thing happen a few years ago - someone drove straight into me on a mini roundabout. I wasn't hurt as badly as it sounds as though you were but it really shook me up.

Does anyone have any male factor problems by the way? My dp has a high sperm count but not very good morphology and I'm a bit worried it could affect things. The doctors don't seem too worried but it's always been a moot point anyway while I haven't been responding to treatment. He (dp - that's darling partner by the way, which I think is very lame but a handy shorthand!) took Wellman supplements for a while but didn't like doing it and stopped. Oh, the trauma of having to take a tablet every night! I think he didn't like it that they smell of marmite!

Hope you're holding up ok xxx


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## laird

Hi there,

How type A (or I'm now calling it type HA) is it that I immediately came back on because I wanted to change what I'd written, because I realised I'd written Ov'd as an acronym which I'm well aware it's not.... I'm losing it I tell you.

Ha, I laughed out loud about what you said about one tablet a day... I LOVE marmite so I would be ok. Hmm, my DH is pretty good with stuff like that and has been for two tests, the second just to see if he could improve on the first!  I then tread a thin line with trying not to complain too much about him drinking too much.... He keeps joking that the consultant told him his sperm were wonderful and therefore the drink is obviously doing him good. Its hard though for me to keep my mouth shut when I see him drinking too much because it could make a big difference, but then i remember that im not making any eggs so its rather irrelevant to us presently.
Sorry I can't help, apart from to say that its really common for blokes to have issues with their sperm and that if they were seriously worried about it they would have told you. My friend who is a doctor, had some issues with his and he just gave up booze and ate healthily with a vengeance and it really made a difference when he went back for a second go.  Its so sensitive though isnt it, to talk about i mean....
No I didnt even ask about the MRI results im so convinced that theyre fine......

have a good weekend xxx


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## Patches

Thank you for the positive advice, sweetie  My dp doesn't drink much but he works with his laptop on his lap a lot and like you, I don't like to say anything after mentioning it once. He puts his neoprene laptop sleeve between it and his lap, but still.... He's a physicist so I feel I should believe him! And as to your dh - I guess if his results were good and he's always drunk a bit then it can't be doing much harm. I agree about the healthy diet though. Actually I wonder if that's even an up-side to the HA type - our other halves probably end up eating healthier too!

How funny about wanting to correct your previous message  I'm sure we'll forgive you the mistake - though to be totally honest when I came on here earlier I was annoyed to notice a spelling mistake in my very first message! Ah, there's a reason there's a personality type which goes with this condition!

Hope you have a lovely weekend xxx


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## Patches

Hi all! 

Andy asked about HA symptoms a while back and I originally said I didn't have any, beyond the obvious. But this week I found out that I do actually have another quite common one - osteopenia, or thinning of the bones. It goes with the lack of oestrogen and is the reason that some people with HA will be given hrt or put back on the pill. The doctor at my most recent appointment wanted to do that but I didn't want to be without any chance of conceiving - it just felt like too backward a step. And I'm glad I didn't since I did finally get a period - plus probably most of the damage was done early on (or so I read in an article in the BMJ after googling like crazy). I've only seen the GP so far who prescribed me industrial strength Vit D and calcium plus a drug whose name I've forgotten. But the fertility clinic want me to see a rheumatologist to get an expert opinion on whether tx would be bad. This would have taken ages so we've decided to go private for this. I'll keep you posted on how it goes in case it's useful for anyone else but I'm really hoping that it won't stop me starting tx in the new year.

I hope you're both well and that you're not too busy at work, Andy! xx


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## laird

Hi there,

Sorry to hear that Patches, you're right on to it though already having started taking your meds, hopefully it won't change the fertility side of treatment for the new year.

I'm having  a scan next week to check my bones, already in a panic that my years of not eating diary (initially not through choice, i found it so hard to get hold of it whilst living in Asia and grew to prefer the taste of soy milk, then later through analysis for IBS found I cannot tolerate lactose)  

I started having organic soy products then decided against it because the non-organic stuff has added calcium (surely a good thing) all the fertility books tell you to have organic.... yet another case of being told something which i have tried to follow and probably hasnt done me any good.

I was knocked off my bike 3 weeks ago and didn't sustain any breakages so surely thats a good thing. 

10 stone 4 today (5 foot 9, when i started this process i was 8 stone), eek my clothes are tight, but im trying to eat literally anything i want without thinking about its fat/calorie content (for the last while i have actively been trying to put on weight as that was what i was told to do by my consultant) when i told my husband my new 'diet plan' he thought that was hilarious, like 'hello thats what i do all the time... thats normal' Hmm.

xx


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## laird

Hi,

Also, forgot to ask, can anyone tell me what the funding situation is for treatment for HA?  I have not been given anything yet bar a prescription for Clomid which I couldnt take because I didnt get a withdrawal bleed from provera.  So last time I see the consultant he just sends me for more tests. When I ask him what happens next he says maybe injections maybe clomid again depending on my latest round of bloods... then he said 'clomid is cheaper' and this bothered me afterwards... does that mean hes not going to want to give me any treatment (he certainly has been stringing me along for a year of tests and nothing more) or does that mean I have to get a private prescription? I'm confused. Thanks xx


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## Patches

Hi!

I hope your scan goes well, Stacey  If the clinic is like mine be prepared for a bit of a wait - I had mine about 7 weeks ago and only just heard the results. I really hope it's all clear. As you say, not breaking anything when you came off your bike is definitely a good sign. I also only drink soya milk but I checked the other day and the calcium fortified one has as much calcium as regular semi skimmed. It's really annoying that the organic one doesn't have extra calcium isn't it - I thought the same. Other good sources of calcium are sardines and greens like broccoli. I asked the GP if there was anything I should avoid (I'm a sneaky diet coke drinker which contains acid) and she said there basically wasn't anything I could do. I suppose if all this treatment strengthens my bones (which I hope it will) I'll gain some pounds for nothing which will keep the doctors happy. I'm steeling myself not to stress out when the numbers on the scales go up!

That's such a good attitude to have about eating, and so funny that your husband thought it was normal. A bit of an insight for us food restricters...! I'm really impressed with your outlook on all this and hope you're not finding the tight clothes thing too bad.

And as to costs, unless you've arranged to pay privately I'm sure the doctor just meant it was less expensive for the NHS. Your diagnosis shouldn't affect what they'll give you - the thing to bear in mind is what your local health authority will pay for. Ours will only fund one cycle of IVF for example, while others do two or three (grrr). The only things you should have to pay are prescription costs, and if it looks as though you're going to need a lot of meds you can get a pre-pay certificate which lasts a certain number of months and works out cheaper. One cycle of drugs might involve three or four different things (but only one or two for clomid) so that's probably a total of £30 or so - I forget what the current prescription charge is.

Keep us posted!!   

xxx


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## laird

Hi

Right ok thanks, I was just worried that even the OI was not funded in which case we might as well be seen privately, but as you say its not the case we will carry on. Yes we only get one cycle of IVF here too, someone was telling me though about their daughter who lived in York and he reckoned she didnt get any on the NHS, not sure if thats correct though, sometimes people dont realise that it could be for other reasons.

So how are you, your appointment is this thurs i believe, hope it goes well, is your partner going with you?

Two weeks on and I havent even got my blood results back. I had them done at the hospital and even though I asked them to make sure my GP got them they insist that they havent and when I speak to my consultants sec she does this massive sigh as if to say 'not you again' and then proceeds to give me reasons as to why I should be more patient. I find this quite annoying, like im expected to be a passive bystander in this whole process.

On the plus side my new 'eat what i like regime is going well'  i seem to have stablised around 10 stone 3, i actually feel pretty good more rounded and my DH seems to be very happy with the more relaxed approach to eating which is good. I also moved recently and have decided not to join a gym, instead i try to walk as much as possible and lift light weights at home, this has definitely helped me (being away from the gym environment)


My brother has just had a major knee op and has been told that he can no longer run (he was a regular marathon runner) he was understandably upset when he found out but one of the first things he said was that he wont be able to eat what he wants to now, running for him was a way of eating all the things he likes without having to worry about his weight, and it looks like really he has overdone it. Rings a few bells with me...

Hope you are well

xx


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## Patches

Hi honey!

Sorry to hear you're still waiting for blood tests. They usually come back quickly if they're done at the hospital, but I've also found that getting info between the hospital and the GP can be more difficult. Mine aren't in the same unit of administration (whatever that is!) and a nurse at the clinic basically said they would never get the results if I had blood done at the GP. I did them anyway and got the GP to print them out for me - but it sounds as though yours are the other way round. Anyway I hope you do get some results asap.

Your poor brother - that sounds tough - and interesting that he also has a relationship between food and serious exercise. Have you substituted gymming for another hobby? Not joining a gym sounds like a really good idea psychologically, and doing weights at home will help with the old bones! I've been much more aware of falling over in the snow and ice since my dx though ironically I'm now gradually less at risk as I take the drugs (I hope)

Thank you for thinking of my appointment this week   We're heading off to dp's parents straight afterwards but I'll keep you posted as soon as I can. I'm symptom spotting again (feeling bigger in the bra department this week - sorry for the details!), but still no change in temperatures. Ach, I give up!

I hope you're having a nice run-up to Christmas. You said you work in a university, didn't you? Are you calming down for Christmas or do you deal with student marking? I have a big pile of the latter surrounding me as I type!

I hope you're ok, Andy - do let us know how you're getting on when you get a chance. And Penni and Jenny from the OI board - hello if you're reading!!

xxx


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## laird

Hi,

Definitely not TMI, its great to hear that you are having signs, fingers crossed this is the start of something.... 

I was never an over-exerciser, i just religiously did what we are all told to do (ie cardio x 3 a week, weights x3) never more and never less. Even when travelling i would carry a stretchy band/fill up litre bottles of water, i just thought i was maintaining my fitness levels but to others i guess i was a bit regimented about the whole thing.  I guess with me its the amount of knowledge i have about nutrition which has enabled me to eat a lot but stay thin, and obviously slimmer than my body should be. The parallels with my brother struck me, neither of us wanting to get older and lose our looks (but then who does?!)

I gave up my career to go travelling and havent worked properly since. Previously I worked as a family counsellor, now i just do work here and there as an advocate/academic support worker and mentor. It suits me well at the moment because i dont have any of the stress of a proper job and as my husband does have a stressful/busy job with a long commute it means i can keep on top of things at home (and drop things at a moments notice to go to hospital/doctors which i seem to be doing a lot of at the moment!) so as the students finished weeks ago i have had way too much time on my hands to chase passive-aggressive doctor's secretaries...

Good luck with the appointment.... xx


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## Patches

Hi! Sorry- I hope I didn't sound critical about the exercise thing there. It's one of the things that's hard to adjust to isn't it - having to dial back on something you thought of as healthy. I was also eating a lot but staying under what turns out to be my ideal weight. Damn nutritional knowledge! I am still going to the gym (though seem mainly to be sitting on the exercise bikes so I can read essays at the same time!) - but since I'm maintaining my higher weight and am not going nuts I'm not too worried. If I didn't go I'd never leave the house! 

I think I may be taking some more little steps towards ovulating again and I actually even got a second line on an ovulation predictor kit last night (I was so happy!). I don't usually tell dp about doing this as I hate for him to think I only want to jump on him to make babies. However then a friend locked herself out of her house and had to stay with us, so I did tell him and we had to be *really* quiet. I was really pleased he was willing to do it anyway especially since he misunderstood when I said I'd peed on an opk and thought I'd done a pg test and so was a bit freaked out! My temperature wasn't up much this morning so I don't think I've actually ov'd yet but the heavy feeling has mainly gone, so hopefully some time today... If we make it through the snow to the doctor's tomorrow I'll ask for a blood test to check my progesterone.

So anyway, a long and silly story, but the upshot is that when you *do* get your period the signs are good that it will continue, even if it does take a long time to get going properly. I really hope I'm not going to be eating my words in a few days if nothing happens.

Are you heading all over for Christmas? We're supposed to be going to the in-laws tomorrow after the hospital appointment but are beginning to rethink given the snow. xxx


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## laird

Hi Patches,

No I didnt think you were being critical I just didnt want to sound contradictory because I know I said earlier that I didnt exercise to excess.  Was going to message you to say 'good luck tomorrow' really hope it goes well and fingers crossed for everything ov'g related, it certainly sounds like things are going the right way for you .

I had my bone scan today, the lady doing it said she couldnt tell me anything there and then but then afterwards told me it looked fine, im happy with that. However she then started asking me if i was going to be put on HRT because she knew other people who were in early menopause who had done that and that i would have to come back every two years for more checks.  Now i know i couldve said something but i was too taken aback and confident that im not menopausal. Bit of a come down though after being asked for ID the other day buying some beers....

After that i chased my blood results though the women at the surgery insist they cant read them properly.... do these mean anything to you? FSH 7.3, LH 7.9 and oestrodial 122.... TBH they seem almost identitical to when i had them done a year ago. arrgghhhh.


We went to the in-laws in november so thankfully we havent got a long trip to my sisters this year.  I just hope we get to Cuba ok on NYE!!

I know what you mean, ive been known to plan all kinds of things around our regular sessions! ive never done a predictor kit as im pretty sure theres no point for me. We do keep it regular though and make an effort even when we are both cold and tired, i also do that lying down with legs up bit afterwards...feels laughably pointless for me at the moment but DH doesnt seem to mind, ive been doing it for over a year now... sigh....

xxx


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## Flossy_5

Hello, I thought I would introduce myself as I have self-diagnosed with HA (BCP for 10 years, no periods since stopping in April 2010, had lost over a stone in the preceeding 6 months and been overdoing the exercise. Also I'm a bit of a perfectionist / anxious type!!). 
I now find myself obsessivley trying to find answers to try and get things back to normal. However, the more I read the more I realise there is no quick fix. 
I've put 9-10lbs back on (very reluctantly) over a period of 3 months and have stopped all exercise. This has been very tough going but I'm gradually shifting my mindset. I've recently been referred to the fertility clinic - have had hormone tests which shows good FSH, but very low oestrodial and LH. Now waiting for a Hycosy which was supposed to be this week, but has now been postponed because my lack of any period has apparantly caused some confusion. very annoying.  

Its good to hear other people's stories and what sorts of investigations / treatments other people have been recomended. Have any of you tried accupuncture, or have any thoughts on whether it would be worthwhile?

Lots of luck for the new year!!


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## Patches

Hello!

Sorry I haven't been on here for a bit, but welcome, Flossy! It sounds as though you're in a very similar position to Stacey and I, and I hope that we can help with a bit of support even if we don't always have actual answers. I absolutely sympathise with the weight gain and how hard it is, but by gaining *relatively* quickly you're putting yourself in a really good position. Do you mind me asking what your BMI is (can't believe I'm asking that - it's the question I used to HATE!!)? I hope your hycosy gets rescheduled soon - I had the same thing with confusion over dates without having a period. It's amazing that it seems to fox people so much. Hopefully it will just rule things out.

I did try acupuncture last year when I was between treatments and trying to gain some weight and initially I really liked it - the acupuncturist was really nice and actually listened to me, which I'd felt the doctors hadn't been doing. I'm generally a bit of an orthodox western medicine sort of person but I'd heard lots of positive things about it and do think that anything which helps you relax can only be good. I went for about six sessions two or three weeks apart but stopped in the end as I was starting to feel that the acupuncturist didn't really know what to do with me any more which was a bit depressing! But I would definitely recommend giving it a try - you can look for registered practitioners with an interest in infertility on their professional website. I can't remember what it's called but it was easy to find with a bit of googling.

Thank you for thinking of me, Stacey - that's really sweet  The appointment was fine - the doctor was really pleased for me that I'd had a period since last time and we agreed not to do anything for a few months in the hope that I'd carry on cycling. He answered all my questions and was ameniable to clomid rather than injectables, plus progesterone support/FSH injections as needed. So we're waiting again now until the end of Feb, but at least I feel there is a bit more cause for hope. My progesterone levels on the day of the appointment were only 4.2 but I think I only ovulated that day (praying that I did actually ov), so I'm not too upset about that. No more signs since then though my boobs still feel massive!

Your bloodwork is very similar to mine now - initially my oestrogen levels were a lot lower than that. Sorry they haven't gone up, but the FSH and LH look ok too. According to my Zita West book FSH levels under 6 are excellnet, 6-8 are good; LH should be under 7 so I'm sure yours is fine (mine was just above last time and I was told it was normal), and oestrodiol should be 25-75 at the start of a cycle. And I wouldn't worry about being perimenopausal - you wouldn't have been told you had HA if scans showed that. Generally people in our position have a good follicular reserve. Andymay does take HRT but I assume that's to protect against hormone deficiencies. Obviously that's a no go if you're trying to get pregnant, but once you start responding to provera at least you'll be getting a bleed.

I hope you have a *fantastic* holiday - eat loads of nice food and come back tanned, relaxed, and with your body ready to get going!

Happy new year to you both  xxx


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## Flossy_5

Patches - My BMI was until a few months ago around 17-17.5. In the last week gone I've gone from 18.5 to 19, thanks to all the Christmas indulgance. Whereas everyone else has been trying not to have that 'extra chocolate' I've been saying bring it on. I  have to say I feel an awful lot better now, so hopefully that is a good sign that things are sorting themselves out a bit. I'm quite lucky that I've had it looked into quite quickly. Its excellent news that you had your first cycle on your own, really good start for the new year - I would agree with your thoughts about going back on the pill. The doctor suggested it as a possibility to me, but absolutely no chance I will go down that route. How long would you say you maintained a good weight for until things started to change?

Staceys - I was just reading back on the older posts again. Had to laugh about the 'pointless' legs in the air bit as that sounds familiar......Think I must be driving my OH mad. Looking at your bloodwork it seems like you still have good FSH so wouldn't worry to much about the perimenopausal comments.

I was wondering though wether ppl with poor oestrogen levels would experience menopause type symptoms. I was a bit disappointed not to be getting any hot flushes since I'm always so freezing cold! (Another good reason to gain more insulation)


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## Patches

Flossy - that's amazing news with the BMI!! I found (and so have several of the ladies on the US fertilethoughts board) that rapid weight gain makes a rapid return of cycles more likely. It took about two months for me (I was just over 18 until about August and had reached 19 by early Sept - first period mid October). So I think definitely keep an eye on your weight to make sure you maintain it, and fingers crossed that you get a period very soon! It's great that you feel better with it too. My body seemed to trigger at a BMI of about 19 though I know other people had to get higher than that. If you can stand it then gaining a bit more can't hurt - but I know that's easier said than done.

I don't think that low oestrogen itself would give you menopause-like symptoms - I *think* that we're in a different position because our ovaries do in theory work - they're just hibernating until they're convinced we're not in a starvation situation any more. But gaining weight can help with not feeling so cold. I'm still a chilly person but a lot less than I was a year or two ago!

I've been getting all sorts of weird tingles and sharp little pains the last couple of days. I'm just hoping it's AF pains not an indication that my body is still trying to ovulate!


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## Flossy_5

Yey, fingers and toes crossed that it shows up and things keep ticking over. At least you are now on the road to recovery, just got to keep going with it all.

I had a 'pre' hycosy scan today to see if I need to be induced with Provera first to get rid of the lining. I said I thought it would be pointless because my hormone tests were pretty conclusive and the last few periods I had on the pill were so light they were virtually non-existant. Guess they had to follow the elimination process though, but as expected my lining is paper thin. Also had to do another pregnancy test, which I have given up doing as its always a big slap in the face. 
I'm quite dissapointed today as I really thought the fact that I'm feeling better was a good indication that my hormones are starting to wake up. But it has just shown there is still not much going on.

I think its dawned on me and my partner today that this could take a *long time*. Oh well, I'm trying to stay positive and remember that at least I realised when I did that there is a problem and not on my next birthday which is when we were originally thinking we would start trying.


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## Patches

Don't despair, Flossy!! I think it is a *really* good sign you're feeling better, but as Stacey has also found recently, it can take a little while for your hormones to properly wake up again. I was talking to a lady on the US board yesterday who has had a v similar story to me, and is also waiting for her second natural ov. She said that she'd failed a provera test (ie progesterone) only four weeks before she got her first period so it seems as though it can be as sudden as flicking a switch. I asked her if I could pass on her story as I thought it would be encouraging to hear. 

I'm completely with you on hating to take the pregnancy tests though - it's just such a kick in the teeth isn't it, especially since that's *supposed* to be a happy moment. But I honestly believe from my own experience that we all really are fixable and so it's only a matter of time before it's happy for us too. I never used to believe it but I'm 100% convinced that my HA and now recovery were related to restricted diet.

I think my period has arrived properly now - I had some really light spotting yesterday but it seems to have got going. Obviously a BFP would have been amazing but I'm still so happy to have had a second cycle, and am feeling more positive about the future than I have for a while.

Andy - if you're still reading this - I really hope we haven't accidentally upset you, and we'd love to know how you're getting on


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## Patches

And PS - you're right - it's really good you found all this out early, and I hope it won't be too long at all before you're able to start trying for good! Did you ever see the stats on positive outcomes Nico on the US fertile thoughts board collected? I'll try to find a link if you want to take a look - it shows how all the women who got pg (and it's most) got there - natural, clomid, injectables, IVF, etc.


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## Flossy_5

Thank you for the words of encouragement, was having a really crappy day but feeling more positive now. I think I did see those stats you mentioned when I was looking a while ago. Definately good evidence that things will be ok in time. How is things with you? Did AF show up properly in the end?


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## Patches

Sorry you're feeling down - feel free to vent here. I know just how you're feeling!

I did get a proper period in the end which was a big relief - thanks for asking  I'm prepared for another big wait to the next one but I least I have more confidence that it will happen again. I'm on cd 9 and counting - maybe only another 58 to go!

I know I probably sound really annoying by being all bright and sparky about our prospects, but I promise you I completely despaired that this would ever happen to me for YEARS. Gaining weight hadn't made me respond any better to treatment than when I was lighter, I felt that time was ticking on, everyone else was pg but me, and that I was a complete medical anomaly. But it turned out that I was just below my weight/body fat threshold and it just took the big leap of faith that it might help to return to gaining. It's helped so much to know I'm not alone in being in this position   

By the way, someone mentioned hot flushes a while back and I said I didn't think it went with HA. Well actually I might have been wrong there - someone happened to say something about it on the US board and they thought it did go with low oestrogen, whatever the cause. Just thought I'd say!

xx


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## laird

Hi there,

Welcome Flossy, sounds like a very familiar story to me, I hope we all have a happy ending soon. 
Nice one Patches on your period, youre getting there, its just a matter of time now. 

Well I just got back from Cuba and had a great time managing to ignore the elephant in the room (and i dont mean me... my BMI is 22 now, 10 stone 6 from all the buffets and xmas)  I had tried provera again just before we left and once again it had no effect. DH tried to get me to talk about it but really there didnt seem to be any point and I felt i would just ruin the holiday.

Im now bursting out of a size 12 bikini which feels very strange. thank goodness for Beyonce though, i spied a picture of her in my inflight magazine looking mighty bootylicious and i have to say MASSIVE compared to all the other celebs.  

weirdly there were at least 3 anorexics in one of our hotels and i managed to feel annoyed even about that. I cant really explain why except that i was thinking that  i made my body what it is trying to be super-healthy and treating it well yet its still letting me down and if you saw me now and for the last year really you would say 'well you dont look skinny' which is what people say (even doctors now), at least if i was skinny id feel like i understood the problem.

Long game i know, im not much good at the long game, ive even started looking at flights for my next holiday, might as well take my mind off things eh (and is it bad that im thinking the next one might involve more walking and less troughing?)
xx


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## Flossy_5

Patches - No I don't find the optimism annoying, I am quietly confident that eventually things will be ok. Just need a bit of time to repair the damage. I keep reminding myself that my body won't just wake up one day and say 'oh great, an extra doughnut', it will take a while to trust that this weight will be maintained.  It's amazing to think how sensitive the body is in terms of the weight it's happy with. 

Staceys, I can relate to the feeling of bulging out of clothes. Christmas helped me put on another 4-5 lbs, which I obvioiusly needed because its only these last few lbs that have started making a noticeable difference. Anyway, I came home from work on Thursday, my skinny jeans were tight all day, constantly reminding me that they very nearly don't fit anymore. So I got on the scales and just burst into tears!! Absolutely ridiculous I know. I'm now fighting the urge to reduce calories / increase exercise. On a positive note, I've had my first try on Provera and today I got a few spots. Obviously not the full effect I hoped for, but its something I guess. Did either of you have any spotting at all when you tried it first? 

I'm glad you had a lovely relaxing holiday, I think its also important to keep doing anything that keeps the stress levels down. Definately good to have something to look forward to. Maybe a compromise between some walking and some sitting around??


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## Patches

Hello, and welcome back Stacey!! I'm glad you had such a good time and that Beyonce gave you some heart  Sorry that provera didn't work again but I don't know if the story I posted about last week or so might give you some encouragement. That lady had also failed it after gaining quite a bit of weight and was really disheartened - but then ovulated on her own only a few weeks later. And it was definitely a proper ov as she's just had all the signs of a second one. I think she said she gained a couple more pounds in between but at any rate, she's a sign that failing it doesn't necessarily mean that you're months or even weeks away from a good result. I can give you her username on the fertilethoughts board if you like - I've been messaging her a bit and she's really nice.

I completely sympathise with both of you about feeling big - I still get just the same and had to talk myself out of being upset when I was a bit heavier than I expected the other night. I really think the best way is just to avoid the clothes that make you feel bad. It's not 'letting yourself go' or anything - it's just being kind to yourself so that you can stick with being that weight. I also sympathise with having to fight restricting and exercising. I find that doing *something* helps so going for a walk or doing yoga - or playing on the wii, going out for a coffee...anything that takes your mind off it a bit. But I think that a holiday with a bit of walking is a nice idea if it cheers you up, Stacey - as long as you take it easy and keep eating what you like as well  But truly the weight gain is *so* much easier to take when you have some proof that your body needs it and I really hope you both get that really soon.

Weird about the anorexics - I know that's tough too. Who knows what state they're in though, and just remember how much healthier you're being than them now. And ignore anyone who says you don't look that skinny - sod 'em all!

I think that the light spotting is definitely a good sign, Flossy - good for you! It obviously shows something's going on in there. The very first time I took it I got some slight bleeding about two weeks afterwards and it gradually became closer to the date I stopped taking it, and a bit more of a respectable bleed. 

Do you know when you get your bone scan results, Stacey? I have my appt with the rheumatologist this week so am hoping to find out exactly what state I'm in, whether it's reversible and what impact it might have on a pregnancy. I'll let you know what they say (though really hope neither of you needs the information).

I hope you're both doing ok. I'm vegged out on the sofa feeling like a beached whale after a family tea party this afternoon!

xx


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## laird

Hello there,

Re the bone scan the woman told me at the scan that it looked fine and i was happy with that, this was later confirmed by the doctor.  If it helps at all i would say that prior to my test the doctor and radiographer were both fairly flippant about osteopenia and said that was 'very mild' anyway so i hope you get some treatment and it doesnt set you back.

As for natural treatments i tried taking agnus castus for about 6 months and then when i didnt feel any different i stopped. I have been having reflexology for about a year but i dont think it helps really i just like it and so it find it relaxing (plus i really enjoy the company of the therapist as shes someone i can talk to about the situation who doesnt say anything annoying)

Yes it would be nice to have the user name....

Great news about the spotting, from what ive read that definitely counts... I havent had anything at all and like you say its hard to keep going with the weight/exercise stuff when it doesnt seem to be having an impact.  I know it must be having some effect though, i certainly have a layer of fat over everything which i know is a good thing, i dont feel the cold as much now and my face definitely looks better (dont they say you have to choose between your face or your **** over a certain age....maybe its over 50, whatever im starting now)

xx


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## laird

Hi,

Just wondered also, why are you having a Hycosy? (I had to look this up to see what it was) have you had this type of scan Patches?

Don't wanna miss out on anything...

xx


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## Flossy_5

Ha, made me Lol about the face and ****. Crikey, its hard to tell with me, but I definately have my bum back again, along with the old saddle bag thighs!! Btw, had the sum total of about 3, maybe 4 spots in the end. Maybe next time.  

The Hycosy is an internal ultrasound, where they inject some fluid through your tubes, basically to check for blockages etc. I don't think its offered everywhere and some still use the HSG's which are similar but less advanced. Personally I would be very surprised if it shows anything other than what I already know. I'm getting a bit cheesed off really because looking on that other board, there are lots of people who already receive treatments after only a few months. I now have to wait for my second app in March now, got postponed a whole month!!   But maybe that's because they are in the USA. I guess its not a bad thing though because I was quite happy to see if I could get back to normal on my own first.  

Good luck with the bone results Patches, hopefully it will be good news. 

xx


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## laird

Hi,

Yes I know exactly what you mean. I have been going to see my consultant since last Feb and all I've had is tests to confirm what we already knew (HA). this time (Feb) I'm all ready (as is my DH) to say that we want to have injections so we can at least move forwards.  I think he did mention the fallopian scan ages ago but hasnt since, I hope he doesnt come up with that as a further test before he gives me any treatment, i wouldnt be surprised.  Hey 4 spots is better than nothing it really is...

xx


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## Patches

Hi!

Love the face or rear comment (you are both cleverer than me - I can't find the naked bottom emoticon!). I really admire both of your attitude to all this, and seeing the wait as an opportunity for your body to do something is definitely a good outlook, Flossy. Do mention the spotting when you see them since you didn't get that last time.

I did have a hycosy early on - it seemed to be part of the standard protocol where I am (West Mids). They can see straight away if there are any problems which is good. It might be worth asking, Stacey. especially if it wouldn't hold up any other tx - always good to know now there aren't any other problems lurking. Just make sure they know you're not cycling or they'll get confused that you arent on day whatever (as I think you found too, Flossy?)

I just had my appt with the rheumatology consultant and he said exactly what you heard, Stacey - that it's very mild and could even be normal in some people. At age under 45 the risk of fracture goes up by only a tiny amount and I've already done all the good stuff by gaining weight and starting menstruating again. He even said I don't need to bother with the drugs the GP gave me, just take Calcium and Vit D supplements. And I don't need to worry about the effects of pregnancy or breastfeeding so I'm really relieved. Plus the drugs were a pain - you had to take them half an hour before eating but you had to stay upright after taking them so when we were away at Xmas I had to take them early and then sit up in the hotel bed for 20 minutes until we went for breakfast!!

Sorry about the long wait times for appointments. We have the same - two to four months for the infertility specialists so we had to lose the whole summer because the plan we'd come up with was only for one cycle and it didn't work out. Make sure you go with LOADS of questions and alternative backup plans for if the first one doesn't work out. I've found that the nurses aren't at all familiar with women in our position and if your clinics are like ours, they make most of the decisions about upping dosages and so on. You could also ask about supplementing treatment cycles with oestrogen if you're responding slowly so that it's in your notes.

Will you try mentioning the clomid extended protocol again, Stacey? It seems like such a shame not to be able to do it given that it's had good results specifically for people in your position. Can you request to see a different doctor? 

Aargh, MUST do some work!

xx

That lady on the fertilethoughts forum is called jambaby and she's really nice. My user name over there is englishcat if you want to explain where you came from. Or I can ask her questions if you don't want the faff of registering.


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## laird

Hi,

Wish I could say it was because i'm clever, actually the truth is that the bottom piccy was automatically substituted (or by a moderator) because I typed a naughty word...

My consultant sec phoned today to say he isnt going to be in clinic on the 1st feb but he is willing to slot me in on monday. Its a bit annoying keep doing this to me as it stresses DH out no end to have to keep messing work around, does your DP always go with you?  They say its because noone else can deal with me because I'm an unusual case.... I'm special see....hmm

In another way its obviously better because its sooner and also psychologically good for me as its two days before my 33rd birthday rather than the week after.

Wasnt going to mention the EP again because he was very clear that he didnt back the reasoning behind it. I guess im hoping for oestrogen and then a go at clomid...

I have read jambaby info before (i registered last year but ive never actually posted) ill send her a PM, cheers..

xx


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## Twiglet1

Hi there ladies,

Thank you all so much for your posts.  I have been feeling very alone in this for a long time!

I have been going through one thing and another for 13 months now - putting on weight (which was incredibly challenging) didn't help and the provera didn't work, so I couldn't take the clomid, so my dr started me on a GnRH pump... I have to change it once every 3 days and it pumps GnRH into my body once every 1.5 hrs.

Have any of you used one?

Cheers,

T


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## laird

Hi there and welcome!  Sorry I can't help, I have only heard of what you are having, since I haven't had any treatment I can't comment.  What is your consultant's long term plan with the pump, does it have any side effects?  

xx


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## Twiglet1

Hi there Staceys,

Thanks for your welcome  

The pump mimics your hypothalamus, so you end up having a ''menstural cycle'' but it is all controlled by the GnRH being pumped into your body.  It's a bit wierd getting used to wearing the pump.  The success rates with it are high and my partner is really happy that it is a ''normal cycle'' with almost no chance of a multiple birth, but I find it a bit tough because it means that I'm constantly reminded that I'm not normal.  The first cycle lasted 6 weeks!! I was so hopeful and then I thought it wasn't working and I went through hell for the 6 weeks.  And then I got my period.

I've started a new job and I work in an office full of women with kids.  I even share an office with a 5 month pregnant woman (I just couldn't believe it), so the conversation is often about kids and pregnancy, and I either feel stressed or really sad.

It's really hard to try and stay happy and relaxed - which my consultant says is essential for implantation - so I either feel stressed, or guilty and stressed for being stressed 

I started yoga, which is a challenge with the pump, but which helps a bit, and I have tried 2 accupuncture sessions.

It's the waiting and the hope which are so hard to handle.

T X


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## laird

Hi there,

Now that's something I can definitely relate to, two of my sisters had babies last year and three of my friends.... I sometimes feel like I'm going crazy with it all, why isn't my body doing what it should be?, why are all these fat people getting pregnant?  why does no-one understand what I'm going through and ask sensible questions instead of asking me why I'm not having IVF already and why does my Doctor not want to do anything?! Thankfully I found this forum and some help.

I too feel constantly stressed about it and im not really working much at the moment so ive got too much time to study on it... well done on getting your new job and coping with the sci fi pump, that doesnt sound easy... Its hard when people dont know what youre going through and ask 'dont you want kids then' either that or they know and look at you with pity!

I read up on the pump and it sounds great.... did your doctor suggest it or did you ask for it ?(it seems quite rare) what area of the country do you live in?  I have my appointment on monday and i want to go armed with as much info as possible... he cant possibly come up with more tests or tell me to put on more weight!  I've been sitting pretty for 16 months now and getting mighty fed up!  Yay for your period, thats great! do you have to stay on the pump even though you had a bleed?



xx


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## Twiglet1

Hey Staceys,

Yep, I hear you!!!! My mother-in-law wants grandkids and most of my friends are starting on their second child. It's not that I don't want them to have the babies or anything like that, it's just that if I have to hear one more "and I fell pregnant the moment we started trying, I must just be extra fertile" story, I'll scream.

I got my period because of the pump - because it mimics a natural cycle - not because it came back, unfortunately and fortunately, if you get what I mean. I'm a brit living in The Netherlands, and here it's the treatment you get if provera and clomid don't work for you, which is why I got it. And my pumps last 3 days and I change them myself, I only need to go to the hospital once in the cycle to see if I have ovulated. But I just did a search on the pump and found this: http://www.dailystrength.org/c/Infertility/forum/PCOS-and-Infertility/3739117-anyone-ever-used-gnrh
There is someone on it who is using the pump and lives in London. It was suggested by her consultant.

I also found this scientific paper which you can show to your consultant. The link won't open on my computer, but if you put the words "gnrh pump + effective + hypothalamic amenorrhoea" into google scholar, the first link is the article. Here is the link to see if it works for you: http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=gnrh+pump+%2B+effective&hl=nl&lr=

Let me know if there's anything else you want to know before your appointment. These days I spend the days before appointments writing a list of questions, because when I get in there I only have 15 mins, so I have to make the best of it and usually I feel pretty stressed / sad in the appointments.

T X


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## Twiglet1

PS: I know what it is like to deal with a Dr who doesn't know what she is talking about.  When I went off th pill and my period didn't come back, my GP made me wait 6 months to see if it would come back and when it didn't, she looked at me, shrugged and said, "And what do you want me to do about it?  Thére's nothing I can do."!  Fortunately, I said, "Well then send me to someone who can do something about it." Which is how I got an appointment for the fertility clinic where I got an appointment 4 months after that.

Wow - I didn't realise that I had so much pent up emotion about that incident until I started to write this...


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## Flossy_5

Oh, I hate those 'when are you going to have children' questions. Christmas is always a prime time for those although luckily I was only asked once. My MUCH younger sister is expecting. I think I'm doing well at being genuinely happy for her and I don't begrudge her at all. However, what I find difficult is that she is not with a very nice partner, no money etc etc. Makes me feel quite sad for the child really. 

Welcome Twiglet, that pump does sound amazing. Like Stacey's I have not got as far as any treatments yet. It was 6 months of no period before I was referred to a specialist, then the wait for the appointment, then the tests....... I just got a hospital letter through the post, I was about to go mad coz that usually means an appointment being re-scheduled, but it was just a reminder for my Hycosy next week, phew. 

Thanks for the links to those articles. Luckily I'm clued up enough to do my research for the next appointment. Up until recently I had assumed this was a reasonably common problem. I'm a bit worried now though because I don't know much about what are the standard treatments for this problem in the UK. I suspect the pump would be deemed too expensive. 

Patches, I'm glad that there doesn't seem to be any serious implications to your bones and during pregnancy, that must be a relief. I'm awaiting my bone scan results still. No reason to think they will be bad after such a short time for me, but I was told that my parathyroid hormone is high. Over a prolonged period this starts drawing calcium from the bones to release into the blood. I won't panic about it however, as google can make you feel that every symptom means your dying   . My other half laughs everytime he sees that Boots advert, the one where the girls are on the health website googling symptoms - he thinks that's me.


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## Patches

Hi ladies!

Welcome Twiglet! I'm so glad that we're growing in number - it's making for such a nice little community. At least if no one else knows what to do with us we have each other!!

I'm really interested to hear about the pump as I've read various other really good things about it (or *a* pump anyway - I assume it's the same one). It seems to be one of the most effective treatments for ladies with HA so that's great news that you get to use it. As usual most of my info is from the US fertilethoughts board but it's been discussed there as some of the Canadian ladies have tried it - it's not available in the US. Totally sympathise with being reminded all the time though. I sometimes feel it's all I think about, and that's without having to drag a piece of equipment around with me! I've never heard anyone in the UK using it but it's definitely worth asking, Flossy and Stacey, - since there are so few of us it might be that it is something that can be used here but we just don't hear about it. Good for you for sticking with the weight gain, too, Twiglet. I also felt that it had made zero difference for ages but with me it did seem to be a very fine line which I eventually managed to cross. If you can bear it I would advise trying to go up a little bit more as it can only help with tx as well. I know that's so hard - I'm having a feel enormous week this week (not helped by a friend of dp's mum's telling me I looked much better than last time she saw me, which to me just means you look fat). I'm trying not to let it affect my eating in case I accidentally dip too low again, but am feeling very unmotivated about cooking. I'd just eat beans on toast and soup all the time if I could!

Great news your appointment got moved forward, Stacey - I really hope it goes well. Do let us know! My dp does come to consultant appointments but we both have quite flexible work hours. Maybe if yours can't come this time he could help you write a list of questions so you can go in armed with his support even if not his actual presence?

That is *so* funny that the bottom was a replacement for a bad word   Naughty ladies (obviously I'm a saint and that's why I didn't find it   )


----------



## Twiglet1

Hi Patches, Flossy and Stacey 

I feel so lucky to have found this forum - thank you so much for setting it up Patches!

The pump isn't as expensive as you may think it is.  The ones which I use now - which need to be changed every 3 days - are insanely expensive... so much so that it freaks me out every time I order them and I have rung my health insurance company 4 times to make sure that they are fully reimbursed  .  But the pump which I did the trial on - which was used here until a last November and which is still in use in some places - was a permanent pump, you just change the ampule of GnRH.  That cost 400 euro per month, which isn't too bad in comparison with ivf treatment.  I've also been told that there is a patch, like an hrt patch, coming out - that would be awesome!

I've also learned heaps from you all - I now know that I have to ask for a bone scan.  Thank goodness they've been negative for you guys   It's quite a scary thought'...  I have an appointment on monday and I'm going to see if I can get one then.  The only problem is that I've just looked up the Dutch guidelines and I don't think I fall into any of the categories, which may mean that I have to pay for it myself... 

Anyway, take care everyone 

TX


----------



## Patches

I'm *so* glad it's been useful for you, Twiglet  And thank you for the info about the pump.

I'd certainly ask about the bone scan. If you're on treatment it might not be necessary as you're getting hormones still. I was at risk because I'd had long gaps in treatment and had been off the pill for quite a long time. In the meantime, weight-bearing exercise, calcium supplements, dairy and leafy veggies (and sardines if you're a fish-eater) are all good! I was encouraged that the rheumatologist only told me to take calcium even though I do have a degree of bone density loss. I had some prescription ones at first but he said over the counter was fine. I didn't mind the chalky taste of the originals but the only ones I could find in Boots with a veggie-friendly shell are vanilla flavoured - not what I want at breakfast time!

Hope you're all well xx


----------



## laird

Hi,

Came away from my appointment yesterday with several vials of menopur and a scan fixed for february. We barely got to speak, the consultant just said he had come to the end of the line with tests and is convinced clomid won't work and so move to injections. In a way I'm happy to be moving forward, (the nurse (who was much nicer) said we will have a few goes with this and if it doesn't work move to IVF. I mentioned the pump but he just said the injections are the same hormone and then started telling us how lucky we were to be getting them as it costs £16 per vial, as if i should be grateful to be in this situation ( we passed two girls heavily pregnant in the doorways smoking ****...)

The nurse did my first injection because I couldnt do it but luckily DH said he's not fazed.. I'm starting at 75 iu every other day. A couple of bits of good news though in general i thought I'd pass on.... Firstly, the nurse said that whilst technically only one cycle of IVF is funded actually it would only cost me around £1000 for the third go and nothing for the second. Something to do with the fact that all the eggs should have been harvested the first time and that I get the drugs free the second time because I need them for the HA anyway (I guess menopur is given as part of IVF) anyway that was better than i thought.

Patches, do you think the cycles of menopur helped you to get your periods back?

Also my consultant said he has  a theory that HA ladies have particularly good eggs once they get going because they have been dormant so long they are preserved in some way. He is the top guy here (east mids) so im not going to argue with that, sounds good to me!  

I'm having a thin feeling day today (even though I am 10 and half stone!)  mainly because when the nurse told me to pinch an inch i still struggle... so we cant be that big. Her alternative was to inject in my inner thigh, now i thought i had fair size legs but when i think about it theres really not enough to pinch an inch there.  

staceys xxx


----------



## laird

Ooh and a quick question. Do you know whether you are supposed to be ultra hydrated or dehydrated when you have the u/s for follicles?

Cheers
Stacey


----------



## Flossy_5

Twiglet, also just to mention on the bone scan front, I've only had one fertility appointment so far, but it wasn't mentioned there. I think the reason I was given it was because I am at risk of low bone density due to another condition. Still, may be worth asking for as it may put your mind at rest. 

Glad you finally got some treatment Stacey's, that's excellent news. I'm sorry I don't know the answer to your question, but do keep us posted on how it goes. 

I had a rubbish appointment today. I had a scan and was informed I have polycystic ovaries. This was a complete shock to me as none of my other tests fit the profile. I'm now really confused and don't know if I  have HA / polycystic ovaries or some horrible combination of both. In which case don't know if I should gain more wait or try to maintain, since they surely both require different things. I posted on another board for some advice, and it seems some people get misdiagnosed with PCOS at u/s as they can look similar. I guess I will have to wait till my follow-up appointment to ask questions, but its a whole month away!!


----------



## laird

Hi Flossy,

Sorry to hear that, i dont know about PCOS but wouldnt you have other symptoms and wouldnt your hormone levels be different?  Is there someone you can hastle before your appointment, it would be a shame to worry about something which may not be the case because someone has made an error?  

When i went for my bone scan the radiographer started telling me about other 'early menopausal' women she had seen.... i was so shocked i didnt question it, really i knew she was just assuming that i was in that category because that would be the kind of people she normally saw......  i'm not post menopause, i know that, but she just made an assumption that made me feel rubbish for the day....

I hope you get some answers... 
xx


----------



## Twiglet1

Hi,

Flossy - I'm sorry to hear about the PCOS diagnosis because... it is common in HA to have some follicles larger than others - a bit like PCOS but not as extreme - because our bodies have been trying to ovulate for ages but haven't had enough estrogen.  I have met a few other women with HA and we have all had a 'borderline PCOS' diagnosis originally, but none the rest of our profile fits.

Stacey - don't let them freak you out.  Your bones have a good chance of being completely normal!  When do you get the results? Does a bone scan hurt?

TX


----------



## laird

Hi,

I got my bone scan results very soon after, they were fine, no damage. Doesn't hurt at all, its just an xray, its a doddle!  xx


----------



## laird

Hi,

Just thought I'd share how brave I am, ive just injected myself 3 times (wasnt supposed to be 3 times but the first time i just got air.... ouch and then i couldnt suck the whole amount with the plunger so i had to go for 2 rounds) and its my Birthday.... what is that all about.  

Patches, question: do you know if it matters what time of day you do the injections?
I also broke the glass vial (it shattered into thousands of tiny pieces around the top and spilt a tiny amount) is there something im doing wrong?

Thanks
Stacey


----------



## Patches

Hellooooo!

Flossy - sorry to hear about the PCOS diagnosis - but as the others have said it's quite common to be told that wrongly with HA. The key thing seems to be the LH:FSH ratio which is quite different for the two conditions. I'll try to dig out the info on it. There's such a strong personality type profile for HA, plus the exercise and food factor that I think people tend to know if they have it. If you do feel that then I'd stick with your plan. Did you already say what your LH and FSH levels were?

As to dehydration - you just need to have an empty bladder (my bladder seems to know when I'm having a scan and be full even when I haven't drunk anything!)

Stacey - well done you! I used to inject on my legs - you don't need an inch of fat or anything, you just need to pinch the skin up away from the muscle so it doesn't hurt.  I used to do it in the morning to get it done, though it did mean I had to get up and do it earlyish at the weekends as you're supposed to do it at the same time each day. And don't worry - it gets much easier! I suspect if the vial is shattering that you're not quite lining up the plastic thing that breaks the neck with the weak spot on the neck. This should be marked with a little dot. Face that towards you and then break it away from you. You might just be being a bit over-enthusiastic though - it actually breaks very easily.

I don't think the injections themselves helped me get my periods back as I still didn't have enough oestrogen in my system. But extra weight should help the response - I think I was still just below the threshold for me. It's good the doc has started you low as it's true that when our bodies wake up they do tend to go a bit nuts! Don't worry if it takes a long time to get going either - and don't let the nurses faze you if they start to think you're not responding. We just respond slower than regular women! Keep us posted on how you go (and I'm glad you're feeling thin!).

Hi Twiglet - hope you're well!! 
xx


----------



## laird

Hi,

Thanks for the help, what dose of menopur did you have?

Hm, I probably shouldn't have said I feel thin, I just realistically know that I'm not fat and I agree with people who say I look better now, I honestly do. I was telling a friend in an email yesterday that I now weigh 10.5 stone and she said 'that's about what you were when we first met and you had curves in all the right places' that was about 11 years ago and i could cry because i know shes right and i know shes not just being nice.  

I'm exactly the same, I ALWAYS need the toilet, but then im still in the habit of drinking loads of water, yet another of my 'ultra healthy' habits which i probably over-do.

My nurse was really good and said she has just been to a conference where she was told that it was wise to 'hold your nerve' when it looks like patients arent responding and not up the dose. So she seemed clued up.... so until it doesnt work im holding every hope that it will.  

Right Ive got a date with some mini eggs and caro coffee substitute, whoopey do. xx


----------



## Flossy_5

Hey Patches, yeah my bloodwork is much more typical of HA profile. Abnormally low E2 & LH. Good FSH (4.6) and testosterone is within the normal range, but actually at the low end. Also, failed provera after 10 months of nothing. Oh yeah and never been overweight, quite the reverse! The only thing that is consistent with polycystic ovaries is that I suffer with a lot of spots round my mouth. However, I always did even before the pill when I was regular as clockwork. I'm liable to throw something at anyone who suggests putting on a stone is a good indicator  . A LOT of effort and overeating has gone into putting that weight on. I am going to try to stop obsessing (ok well maybe not completely) because it could be that it is the low hormones as opposed to traditional PCOS that have caused the cysts. It seems that when your bosy is initially trying to get going again, it can cause multiple small cysts until the hormones are sufficient enough to support full ovulation. 

Stacey's, you are very brave to be injecting. I think I would be far too squeamish. And yes, keep believing that people genuinely do mean it when they compliment on the weight gain. Although I much prefer my legs and bum when smaller, unfortunately it makes my top half look all bony. I was looking back on some summer pics the other day and was thinking they look a bit gross. That reminds me of something funny I got sent, gonna see if I can post it.


----------



## Flossy_5

Here it is, made me giggle.....

This Christmas, consider the following:










This woman is 51. She is a TV "health guru" advocating a holistic approach to nutrition and ill health, promoting exercise and a pescetarian diet high in organic fruits and vegetables. She recommends detox diets, colonic irrigation and supplements, also making statements that yeast is harmful, that the colour of food is nutritionally significant, and about the utility of faecal examination.










This woman is 50. 
She is a TV cook, who drinks her fair share of wine and eats nothing but meat, cream, butter and desserts.

Take note, then crack on with the wine and chocolates!!!!​


----------



## Patches

He he - so true!! 

I'm really glad that the nurse seems clued up, Stacey. I've tried various regimes - starting at 1 vial then going up to 2 but that was too much; starting at 1 for ages, then 1 1/2 for ages, then 2 but again, just tipped over the edge of having too many. And then starting at 1/2 and going up but in the end that one was abandoned (though I think looking back that I could have continued - but I was so stressed and fed up that I didn't want to carry on anyway). My problem was that I would plateau and need to up the dosage but then lots of little follicles would catch up and I'd end up with six or so  that were mature. But I've read about lots of other women with HA who respond better so don't let that bother you, and you/they can always learn from the first go how to adjust the dosage if it doesn't quite work.

I think it's really healthy to reflect on looking better at this weight and if you have friends who can genuinely support you that's great. I still get a bit upset when people say anything because I don't like being looked at critically (even if it's positive). But I do believe my boyfriend when he says I still look nice 

Flossy - I think you're right about having HA, and lots of people get spots especially with hormonal fluctuations. What did they actually say about the cysts? Because we often have good follicular reserves they can look like cysts on a scan. Apparently in PCOS it's typical to have them line up as a ring around the edge of the ovary. Diet and weight aside I think that clomid and injectables are used for both conditions so hopefully it wouldn't hold you back even if the doctors stay on the fence. Hopefully you won't need to go as far as injectables (though as Stacey says - you get used it to remarkably quickly!)

AFM I've had one or two twinges - while I was giving a lecture - typical! So I'm hoping that my body might be starting to rev up for round 3. I started taking temps again yesterday but then immediately forgot again this morning!

xx


----------



## Twiglet1

Hi Everyone 

Patches - fingers crossed for you 

Flossy - that's brilliant.  Fingers crossed that I look as good as her at that age 

Stacey - well done with your regimen! And fingers crossed for you 

Thanks for the information on bone scans.  I had my appointment today and my consultant has given me a form for one, but I can't have it until after treatment / pregnancy.  But I feel better to know that it's something that is 'going to be sorted'.

I went a bit crazy on the weekend and looked up everything I could find on HA on pubmed.  I've only read the relevant articles in the first 20 pages (of 91), but it seems that one of the crucial factors that differentiates HA women from women with a normal cycle (if both are in the normal wt range) is that they eat much less fat and much, much more fibre.  I know this isn't exactly earth-shattering, but it rang true for me, so I'm going to decrease the fibre and increase the good fats still more (and the bad fats - god I love chocolate now that it's essential) to try to correct this.  Also, in another study, anorexics who got back to a normal weight but still didn't menstruate, did significantly more exercise than the women whose period did come back.

Anyway, take care everyone,

TX


----------



## Flossy_5

Hi all,

Staceys - Lol about you finding all those articles. Maybe not earth shattering, however I think you are right that the fat is the crucial factor, even if we are eating enough total calories to be maintining or gaining weight. Thinking about the changes I made, I eat a lot more and am now eating high fatty snacks. However, my meals are still pretty low in fats. There seems to be a strong link between eating high fat dairy and fertility. Those who even one portion of low fat dairy products a day are seemingly less likely to get pregnant I think I remember Staceys and Patches mentioning not tolerating dairy, but a dose of daily ice cream seems to be a key thing if you are ok with dairy.

Patches - Fingers crossed about the twinges. Hope its a good sign. I haven't had a chance to ask anymore about the cysts, but I shall quiz on the location of them etc. 

On a positive note today I am sure I got something that appeared like EWCM, trying not to get carried away in case its just something else. I guess we'ss see in a couple of weeks.


----------



## laird

Hi,

Patches: thanks for those pointers, it was really helpful especially when i kept breaking the glass vials, to know that i didnt need to press them so hard.... any more twinges? x

Twiglet: its amazing what you can do if you have to, ive even bought the menopur into uni today, where i work, so i can do it between lectures!  How are you, any more info to hand? i know what you are saying is true about the exercise and fats but i get a bit fed up thinking this is all my fault.... i put on the weight, easily and quickly and stopped all cardio exercise but i still have no period... im fed up feeling to blame? do you know what i mean? x

Flossy: any more news/twinges?  I ate dairy on holiday and found no problems so ive started eating it again. ice cream is the only pudding i dont like.. its cold and wet.  im with twiggy on the chocolate though...

xx


----------



## Patches

Flossy - that would be fantastic if it's EWCM - keep us posted 

Twiglet - those findings rang really true for me too. I actually find it quite hard to pinpoint what I did differently about my diet in the end, but I think it was just trying to sod a lot of my own self-imposed rules and eating a bit more all over the place. To be honest I do still eat pretty low fat and I worry about it sometimes but since I had a second period I'm assuming it's ok. The reduced dairy is an elective thing for me on ethical grounds - but I do love ice cream  The non dairy stuff is still tasty and I have a little treat of Ben and Jerry's sometimes (because it's supposedly carbon neutral, you see  Oh, and amazing!)

Stacey - I'm glad the advice was useful. Is it going better now? When are you being scanned again?

AFM - still just the odd tiny twinge but nothing else. But then the first time I only had the odd tiny sign right up until I actually ov'd as well so I'm not really sure what to expect. It's over four weeks since my period so I'm beginning to get a bit antsy. I hope something happens soon...


----------



## Flossy_5

Hi all

Doh, realised in my last post I put the wrong name re the articles. 

Patches - seems like when first getting your cycles back they are longer than the usual 30 days so try not to lose heart, it may take just a little while longer. 

Staceys - i know how you feel about blaming yourself. It seems so ridiculous when you think you are actually being healthy. I guess there are some people who can get away with being thin and exercising lots, whereas others are just far more sensitive. Lets just hope these injectibles do thi trick. Can I ask, how does it work? Is it something you inject everyday and do they then do u/s to know best time to go for it?

I think I was wishful thinking before. I just feel like its surely time now and trying to convince myself I think. Some days I feel really angry and think that the NHS could surely save money on fertility treatment if there was better monitoring of girls on the pill. I.e. just weighing people before dishing out another years supply, or asking people who are in a stable relationship what their plans are for children. If I had known how long it was all going to take I would have stopped the pill sooner, or re-gained weight before stopping. Apols if I have ranted about this before, I forget sometimes whether these are just my constant thoughts or something I've said before.


----------



## laird

Hi,

I had my first scan on sunday and was told that it was 'as expected' no large follicles and a very thin lining. We then got a lecture about how they wont up the dose yet because hyper stimulation of the ovaries is potentially life threatening but in the next breath the nurse is saying they arent expecting the dose im on to achieve anything at all.  I have to say myself and DH did come away thinking 'why dont they just do IVF?' all this to-ing and fro-ing for something that A: probably wont work but B: could kill you, well the whole idea had us in hysterics because it doesnt sell the whole process to us really.... gotta laugh eh.

Then they phoned me this morning and said im to inject the minimum dose every day instead of every other day and then ill be scanned again on friday. The aim being to get me to produce a good sized follicle, and good oestrogen measurement (they take my oestrogen levels each time also), they will then give me a 'trigger shot' of a different hormone and send us home to do the do.

It could take a long time though to get it right because once HA peeps get going they 'can go like the clappers', apparently, or something like that...so they are very nervous about getting the dose right and starting obviously at the lowest dose possible. 

Patches... hats off to you for doing this and having a proper job, how on earth did you do it? just the idea that they can call you in for scans really whenever they think it is appropriate, thats not easy. Luckily, since returning from travelling ive been on the lazy-side and now at least i have an excuse!

xxx


----------



## Patches

Flossy - thank you for the kind encouraging words. It made me sad to read the line about not being sure whether you'd said something before or just thought it. I think we can all identify with that - I certainly can. It's just something which is so hard to get away from.

Don't lose heart that nothing else has happened yet. I only got one or two tiny bits of EWCM before my first period, and this time round I had the most I've ever had in one go - but that was two weeks ago and nothing notable since. I'd just chalk it up as a potentially good sign but try not to get too sad if there isn't anything else for a bit. You're right about the long cycles as well. I'm on about day 35 now and still just the same little twinges. Enough to make me thing *something* might be going on, but with no real idea of what!

So much for the hospital trips being informative, Stacey!! Your account did make me laugh! Fortunately full-blown OHSS is very rare though I did feel pretty bloated and sore when I was on menopur just because I had a lot of small eggs I think. It sounds as though going onto injecting every day is a good idea - I think we usually need that bit more of a kick to get going. The most clued-up-on-HA doc we've seen was also definite about long and slow, so don't worry about that. It's good they're testing your blood every time too. All extra info is good! 

Juggling scans and work wasn't much fun at all, but I'm also lucky in that I work from home quite a lot. As long as I could avoid days when I was teaching it was generally ok (thankfully, since the hospital is an hour and a half round trip from us in the opposite direction from my work). It must be tough to keep it quiet when you're in an office every day. 

Hope you're ok too, Twiglet!

xx


----------



## laird

Hi,

Patches, just a quick question, do you recall what dose you were on when you over stimulated? why did they abandon the other cycles of menopur, why didn't they just keep going?  Sorry to have to ask you to go over what can't have been a pleasant experience.
Did you find your lining increased at all? Mine is really not doing anything (hence provera not working I suppose) 

Right I really need to find something non-uterus related to think about. Once you start on this process doesn't absolutely everything seem to be about babies/children? everywhere you look. I didn't even LIKE children before we decided to have our own family. Now people seem to be looking at me pityingly because I havn't got one. How did this happen?!

Sending positive vibes to all...
xx


----------



## Twiglet1

Hi Ladies,

Yes, I too go through periods of anger at being written 'another script for the pill' without any real thought.  It also annoys me that it is common to go 6 months after stopping the pill without getting a period - even in 'normal' women - and no-one told me that either.

Also, it turns out from my reading, that even if you were on the pill, if your fat intake wasn't high enough, you're still at high risk of bone damage...  I have been sent for a DEXA scan, but can't have it during the 'trying' period, which adds a lot of stress at the moment.

My first pump cycle was on a very low dose, also because of the risk of hyperstimulation and multiple ovulation - and it took 6 weeks.  Looking back, it doesn't seem that long, but at the time it was an eternity.  And then they doubled the dose because that is the protocol - which did make me wonder why they didn't start at the higher dose straight away.

Anyway, I am very grateful to be on the pump and have my fingers crossed 

Take care everyone,

TX


I'm now in my first 2 week wait.


----------



## Flossy_5

Oh Twiglet that's great news. I'll be rooting for you, do keep us posted. I know it can feel like every month that goes by is more time wasted, but in the grand scheme of things its only a very short time and rather that than make a mistake earlier on.
I think what makes it difficult is that you just never know how much is enough. How much drugs, how much weight.... If someone could say to me 'right, 5 more lbs, give it two months and you'll be working again' it would make the waiting so much easier to bear. I think we're all guilty of wishing the months by and I do have to keep reminding myself to enjoy my time too. Time to plan another holiday methinks. Maybe to celebrate the looming 30ths this year 

So anybody celebrating Valentines? We never do the slushy flowers and cards but tomorrow we'll be making a nice 3 course meal. Soup, steak and chips and cheesecake - and no servings of guilt to go with it !! 

xx


----------



## Twiglet1

Thanks, Flossy   I know this is too much information, but my partner caught me staring at my nipples yesterday, looking for signs of change   I was quite embarrassed and he thought it was hilarious.  Needless to say, I hadn't any idea what they looked like normally, having never really taken much notice, so spotting changes was wishful thinking.

Re: how much weight is enough, I read an article which said that of a whole group of women monitored (I think it was just over 40), the average weight at which their period returned was 2.5kg over the weight at which they lost it.  This was useless to me, because I was on the pill, but it might help someone here.  Also, this was approx. 90% of the weight that they have to be to be in the low normal range.  This was more helpful to me (not that mine has come back - I'm on the pump) but at least it gave me a weight at which I can relax a bit.  However, this contradicts a really great blog which I have read by Nico (Half as many chances), and it is just an average thing.

Take care & enjoy the rest of the weekend,

TX


----------



## Patches

Hello my dears!! Sorry for being awol again - busy week at work (just got a promotion which is nice, though scary!)

Stacey - don't worry one bit about asking about the menopur. It was stressful as hell at the time but I certainly don't mind giving details if it will help anyone else. Unfortunately I'm not sure I can remember the precise sequence, but for the first one I was one one vial for two weeks, I think, and then I think I went straight up to two for another two or so. I only just overstimmed but the NHS is really strict about what counts (way stricter than in the USA). The second time I started on one again but was definitely on one and a half for a bit, and then up to two. My problem was that each increase helped but then it would plateau and going up let the smaller follies catch up. My lining got to being triple striped (which is good) but wasn't much over 6 or so. Again, I was only *just* in the overstim category. And the third one started on half for two weeks and then went up half at a time, but after 6 weeks not much was happening and I was so stressed I agreed to abandon it. Now I wonder if I should have carried on but honestly I was so desperate not to overstim that I don't know if it would have been worth it. Please don't give up if it seems slow - many other women with HA do seem to respond much better than me, and it might just be a case of needing to tinker with the starting dose. And don't worry if it takes a while of injecting - as you can see I was on at least four weeks each time.

Twiglet - so glad to hear you're in a 2ww!!! I hope it's going ok (I laughed about the nipples!). Did you do a trigger or does the pump do that?

Again, I totally sympathise about wishing we knew where to aim for. In retrospect I was so close for ages but had no way of knowing that. I'd read that statistic about the weight at which you lost your periods - but was also on the pill so I didn't know when it was. And the weight at which I first got my period was irrelevant since I grew a lot after that and took up the gym! I just really hope that we all get there   

I'm almost six weeks into this cycle but am definitely having twinges. I really hope it happens soon as dp is going away this weekend and I feel I can't ask him not to go if it coincides with ovulating. This whole thing is so stressful for him, and these weekends away with his boy-buddies are his stress release. I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed! We have another appointment at the clinic in a couple of weeks so we can discuss whether to keep trying au natural or whether to go to clomid to bring the cycles closer together. I'm just worried I still won't respond to it as my body is still doing things really slowly (though I will *never* underestimate how glad I am that it's doing anything at all, believe me!)

As to Valentine's, we're very non-smushy but in a smushy sort of way! We're deliberately going to a very non-romantic all you can eat buffet and then an old film at the cinema! xxx


----------



## Flossy_5

Patches - It sounds as though hubby definately needs a weekend away to enjoy himself. Maybe you could use it as an excuse for doing something girlie and fun too..... Sometimes I think its quite nice to have a bit of time to myself without the OH, every now and then I like to be self indulgant without feeling guilty. Try to think of it as having a breather and keeping youself sane rather than wasted time. 

Twiglet - Just to make you feel better on the TMI front, my OH gets regular updates from the findings of 'knicker watch'. I am quite fortunate however because I think it amuses him more than anything as I have always been such a prude! I guess having so many tests you begin to lose all sense of embarassment about such things. 

XX


----------



## laird

Hi there,

Good luck Twiglet, I'm interested to know how long you were using the pump for and did you have a trigger as such? fingers crossed..

Flossy, oh no i feel ive got another characteristic to add to my HA personality-type. I definitely err on the 'prudish' side of the things...

Patches, thanks so much for your info it really helps to know someone else who has been through it. I know totally what you mean about the weekend plans though, its all part of wanting to have some control for me, i made DH a G and T last night but I didnt put any gin in and HE DIDNT EVEN NOTICE.  ha ha.

As for valentines im totally anti it, it doesnt get a mention in my house. we are very romantic but i find that 'being romantic' on a set day that means nothing to either of us is the antithisis of being romantic. right im off my soap box.

This cycle is turning out to be rubbish.  I am still only on 1 vial a day despite my e2 going down (yes down great eh) to less then 50 yesterday.  I had one follicle at 11 which is more than before but it felt like she had to rummage endlessly inside my entire lower body to find it. they are insisting i carry on on only 1 a day though.

I also have had a bit of a set back in that my GP sent me to a tertiary gynae specialist who is saying that she thinks i should get a second opinion.  she says i should be using the pump....  she also said that if i had HA my LH and FSH levels would be nonexistent instead of just the e2. I have never heard this before but she says it is that my ovaries are desensitized rather than the hypothalamus which isnt working. This makes sense but is contrary to what ive been told, does this make sense to any of you ladies?

Right off to think about something different but even my choice of unhealthy snacks seem to be taunting me (i love mini eggs)

xx


----------



## Twiglet1

Hi there,

Flossy -   I'm glad it's not just me!  
I certainly ''feel" like I'm pregnant - but won't know until I can test properly.  I tested with an early test (couldn't help it - I had it at home already...) and got a negative, but it is quite early, so I'm not letting it get me down.

Patches & Stacey - no, I didn't get triggered or anything.  The pump just shoots in the hormone every 1.5hrs and then my body does the rest.  I was really worried when I started that everyone would see it, but it turns out to be like the TFL moonwalking bear ad (which, as a cyclist, I find awesome) - you only spot it if you know it's there. This is my second cycle.  The first cycle was at a really dose and it took 6 weeks.  We weren't trying because I responded really strongly to the trial (they do a trial first to see if you get an increased LH and FSH) so there was a concern about multiples.  Then the dose was raised for the second cycle. I didn't get any side effects that I am aware of, and though I find it quite un-sexy, it doesn't phase my partner at all.

Stacey - I don't know anything about my actual levels of those hormones.  I get told that various things are high and low and I now realise that I should have written that stuff down.  I can ask my Dr next time I see him.

Enjoy your mini eggs, Stacey.

Good luck, everyone.

TX


----------



## Patches

Twiglet - definitely don't give up yet! Gosh, but it would be so amazing if this is the one for you - I'm keeping everything crossed for you. When is the official test date?

Stacey - I think we compared FSH and LH levels and mine were very similar to yours (and my docs did agree it was HA with me). To my (non-expert) mind the desensitized thing does make sense in that our bodies have shut that down, but I don't feel it's incompatible with HA. But if the upshot of getting another opinion is that you could go on the pump then I'd go for it - it sounds pretty amazing from what Twiglet has said.

I laughed about your mini eggs  I hope that your own mini egg gets going too - at least it IS growing. Have they said when they'd put the dose up? If you're like me an increased boost is needed at some stage, but it's good they're being cautious on the first attempt. The first one really is a learning curve as to how you respond so please don't feel it's a waste (though I know that's hard at the time). It might actually be good that you only have one doing much at the moment as it's when there are others hanging about that you end up in danger of having lots just big enough to be considered mature.

Flossy - how are you doing? Thank you for the nice words about relaxing. I definitely think that the odd weekend alone is good, and dp definitely needs his time off from all this every so often! I'm still really stressed about it coinciding with ovulating though - I've still got cramps and twinges, my boobs are massive, but STILL no temperature shift or positive opks. It might be a false alarm like I had last time (which would be annoying because I really hoped my body would sort itself this time), or it might be on its way somewhere. Anyway I did gently ask dp if he could wait until I got home tomorrow before heading off for his weekend in case we needed 'to take care of something'  He said that was ok so at least we'd only lose one day.

Hmm, sorry for all this detail. I'm feeling a bit all at sea! I hope you're all ok xx


----------



## Flossy_5

Hey there,

Patches - Seems like a good compromise to me. Then there's always Sunday evening!! How reliable have you found the OPK's and temps before? Have you ever noticed any changes to CM? I haven't started doing any of that yet as I don't have any starting point, but I guess I will when things are more on track.

Staceys - I'm not sure of the exact criteria for HA DX, I still haven't even got to the point of a diagnosed problem.    If it helps my numbers were FSH - 4.6 LH - 0.8 (ish) and E2 is >74 (don't know if I got the symbol the right way, ayway less than the lower limit of 74). My interpretation would be if E2 is low, surely hormone regulation is not functioning correctly. I had thought that even if LH is ok, you can still have HA. 

Twiglet - Hope your doing ok with the 2ww

For me I'm having a pretty low week, probably coz I'm still 2 weeks off my next appointment and until then I'm in limbo. Also it's been full-on at work recently and I'm feeling a bit stressed. I can't believe it's Friday already tomorrow and the to do list is getting longer not shorter! On top of that I am still having these dull aches in my ovary area and I still don't know what that is all about. I can only presume that if I do have cysts, they could be causing some discomfort. On the upside, I am still having small but consistent amounts of CM, which had totally disappeared until recently when my weight shot up. 

And just for a bit of non baby amusement - tonight I am going to attempt to catch the little blighter of a cat that keeps sneaking into my house through the cat flap. A while ago it got in while we were away and unbeknownst to me, it bit my cat causing a hugely painful abcess that I only discovered two weeks later. This cost a lot of money in vets fees, not to mention the pain to my poor little one. I would never hurt any animal (even bully ones), but I do want to catch it in action and give it a bit of a scare. Hopefully it will realise there are people in the house and think twice about coming back!!

Wishing you all a pleasant weekend, especially you Patches and hope Ov comes at a suitable time!!


----------



## Patches

I don't want to get your hopes up but that sounds really positive to me! The first time I ov'd I had basically no symptoms in advance but the second time an ache around my ovaries was a definite sign and I've had it this time too. The thing about the cysts always sounded a bit confusing - all follicles are really little cysts so it's possible they were just seeing a good set of ovaries. Keep us posted!

I'm sorry you're feeling down though - I hope catching the cat helps! I sympathise as we also have cats. I went from loving all cats to loving all cats except the other ones in our neighbourhood!

As for me - I'm pretty much certain I didn't ov, and my symptoms have all gone again. I'm really disappointed - I really hoped that my body wouldn't do this double-headed cycle with a false alarm in the middle, and it's set to be an even longer one than last time now. I haven't been weighing myself and was a couple of pounds lighter a few days ago so I was worried it was my fault. But I was an ok weight again today after only a couple of days of eating more again so now I'm not sure. I'm just waiting for our appointment on Thursday now to see about starting clomid again. Sorry for the ongoing whinge


----------



## Flossy_5

Hiya, I suppose I'm not getting my hopes up too much because its more of a chronic ache than sharp ov pains. Its been present for about 2 weeks now and seems to be noticeable when I'm driving or when I'm sat at my desk for long periods. The pain was better over the weekend when I wasn't sitting down as much. It definately feels like that area rather than a muscular / joint pain. I am tempted to phone the GP about it, but I doubt he can do anything and its not long till my appointment with the consultant, so may as well wait till then. 

Some good news was that DP's 2nd SA results came back all normal. The first lot said motility was only 38% and progressive motility only 35% so we were worried there would be another issue to contend with. He thinks the bad results may have been because we had just flown back from a holiday late the night before, delayed flights and cramped sitting for ages. Plus the stress of 'producing' in very unsexy surroundings. 

Sorry to hear you've not had Ov yet. I wouldn't beat yourself up over the couple of lbs you lost. I think even HA bodies can cope with small and temporary fluctuations. How is your BMI now? Perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea to consider drug treatments again. Now that your body is in a strong enough position to cope with cycles, you may find you respond better this time around. It may just help to reduce the time between cycles as I gather it can  be very variable at first.


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## laird

Hi,

Patches, as much as I believe it's important to keep the fats in and on as it were I doubt a few pounds here and there is going to make a difference, have you been keeping at the pastries/cakes?!  Please don't be hard on yourself, none of this is your fault..... it's not the fault of any of us that we are in this position, there are lots of people way thinner than me who seem to have no problems but for whatever reason our bodies are not behaving themselves.

I am still not responding to the menopur so im being told im going to require 'dynamite', we'll see how that goes (up to 2 x 75 a day at present) i was hoping because i have gained 2.5 stone since my lightest weight that my body would be about to do something on its own but it doesnt appear to be the case. Whats with that?!

Flossy: I feel your pain with all these twinges/signs, i feel like ive been noticing things for ages and then when nothing changes im not so sure, its cruel and aggravating but I still believe we will all get there, we are just taking the stairs rather than the lift.

Twiglet: Any news?.... I have a packet of you in my bag    and mini eggs too, theyre for pudding 

xxx


----------



## Patches

Thank you, ladies - your wise words really are a big comfort   I made it my business to eat lots over the weekend and tipped back over to what I should be so I think it was just a blip. I just hope it wasn't at the critical time! Anyway, I resolved after my last post to come back on here and be much more positive, so I'll try not to whinge too much (for a bit at least!)

I really hope that the bit of dynamite works for you, Stacey. When are you next back for a scan? Have you had much growth at all? I really can't stress enough how much I sympathise with you over all this, but stick with it!

Flossy - I forgot to say last time that I also separately had some dull aches probably this time last year which were around most of the time. It was after a medicated cycle so I was also worried about cysts and asked to go back for a scan. It showed nothing so I went to the GP who prodded me (in a nice way) and said that given that cysts had already been ruled out, to give it a bit of time and come back if it was still there. It went away on its own, but the key reason she wasn't worried is that it wasn't painful when prodded. Is that the case for you too? If you're worried I would go to the GP though and they can always send you on for a scan to check.

Hi Twiglet! Hope you're doing ok!

xxx


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## laird

Hi Patches,

Just be how you feel, people who are 'up' all the time get on my nerves anyway, its not natural!!  I use you lot to say what I want when I want and I expect you all to do the same...

Just been this morning (day 34) and I still have nothing doing. One follicle back down to 10 and lots of small ones on the other ovary. Lining down to 3mm and I dare say the oestrogen won't be anything to talk about (its been around 50 to 75 then 116 then back down to 70 etc)  The nurse is going to phone me back today to let me know whether its worth carrying on. I'm already on 150 a day and have been for nearly a week. 

Hmm, what can I say to end on a positive... its not cold today, in fact it definitely feels more 'spring' like.

xxx


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## laird

Hmmm,  nurse wants me to continue because my oestrogen is 188, thats better right?!.... but nothing to get too excited about!

x


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## Twiglet1

Hi Ladies,

Sorry for the radio silence - I forced myself to stay calm and try to focus on thinking positive thoughts and... you're not going to believe this!  We did a test and it's positive!!!!!!   We were completely shocked - it's only my first trying cycle with the pump.  I felt pregnant - really constipated, bloated and very sore boobs, but I had also forgotten what a normal cycle felt like, so I wasn't sure.  And also, all this new eating (I stepped the fats up even more over the last 5 weeks) was changing the way I feel as well.  Anyway, I can't recommend the pump and eating lots of fat enough.  The pump is a total hassle, but absolutely worth it.

I called the clinic and they brought me down to earth - it's still "very early days yet" and "could still go either way"  - I mean, they're right, but still!  So they've booked me for an ultrasound at 7 weeks to check for a heartbeat.

Anyway, we are still a bit shocked, and very very happy, so please take heart everyone - if it worked for me (compulsive long term over exerciser and under eater) then it can work for anyone.

Stacey - I think the emotional rollercoaster is just par for the course with HA treatment.  I was so incredibly depressed during my first cycle which took 6 weeks - I never got any CM (and also not with this cycle) or any other symptoms of ovulation and everyone around me seemed to be announcing pregnancies every 2 seconds, and more annoyingly "mistake" pregnancies.

Patches - I agree - I don't think that a few pounds is going to make that much of a difference, as long as the general trend is not to lose weight.  I put on and then stabilize (and so stop thinking about it) and then lose a bit and then start over again. 

Flossy - fantastic news about DPs sperm count.  My DP was incredibly stressed when we went to get the results.  He took the test in his stride, but became very stressed at the feedback appointment.  I'm sort of glad he went through that because it gave him a bit of a taste of what it was like for me during all our other appointments.

Anyway, thinking of you all.

Take care,

T X


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## laird

Hi Twiglet,

Congratulations!  Thats fantastic news, after all you have been through you really deserve it.  Have you told everyone or are you keeping it on the low?!  Must be hard, I think I would explode with the excitement of it all!

Whats next in terms of appointments and stuff or do you just wait for the 7 week scan you mention?....

When you say this was your first cycle with the pump do you mean that you tried something else first? 
xx


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## Flossy_5

Wow Twiglet, that's amazing news. Hear what you're saying about keeping down to earth, but I'm staying quietly optimistic for you. Can you re-cap, did you have any other treatment and had you managed to have any natural AF before that? Do pop back and let us know how things asre going. 

Staceys - your oestrogen is definately a good improvement. Maybe keep going with it for a little longer. I'm sure they are right in saying its best  to go slowly and steadily.

Patches - you certainly shouldn't feel bad about coming here to vent. Some days, reality stinks and you've got to have a moan about it.  

The aching pain I've been having seems to have subsided, lasted about 2 weeks in total. Patches, it wasn't painful at all when I prodded and believe me I've done a lot of prodding 'just to check'. The only thing it could be is perhaps my ovaries have got full of little follicles and they were causing pain. So its my appointment this coming week? Any advice on the sort of questions I should ask, or treatment to plump for?


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## Patches

Twiglet - yaaaaay! That's so amazing! I can't deny that I'm insanely jealous,  but good on you! It may be early days but there's nothing you can do either way, so I'd just enjoy it as much as you possibly can.

Stacey - it's good they want you to carry on, and oestrogen going up can only be a good thing as to your response (I suppose it could be the biggest one getting bigger or some smaller ones starting to pump out more - either way more oestrogen must be good, right?!). I hope you're managing to stay as zen as possible about it.

Flossy - glad to hear the discomfort went away as it rules out bad stuff. And even better that it will get checked out this week. As to questions, do you know what your own preferred option is? Stacey tried asking her doc about the extended clomid protocol but unfortunately s/he didn't go for it. But that does sound like a really good option for HA ladies. I can dig out the reference to it if we haven't mentioned it on here before. A second would be the pump, as Twiglet has so admirably shown! I always try to get as much down in my notes as possible as at my clinic it's the nurses that decide on dosage changes, and it takes ages to see a doctor again. So I'd say if you all agree on clomid (for example), how many cycles, what happens if you don't respond to the first one, when does the dose change, do you need to take anything to start a period each time, etc. Injectibles are another option but most docs will start you on clomid first as it's cheaper but also less invasive and general pain.

AFM - did I tell you about my appt last week? I was feeling very despondent about it and might have been trying not to be on such a downer on here! The doc was actually really cheerful and said it was up to us whether we did more treatment or carried on au naturel. Unfortunately I was feeling very stressed about what my body was doing, whether I was going to ov again, general time pressures, etc, and so ended up in tears anyway. Plus I had the nurse I hate doing a scan which showed not much at all despite all the twinges, cramps, sore boobs of last week. I feel a bit better now but still very fed up with all this. Sorry if I did say all this already - my last post is on the previous page and I can't remember what I wrote! So I'm still just waiting to see what happens and if there's nothing in a few weeks I'll have to take norothisterone again to start a bleed and then try clomid. Very worried it still won't work though, since my body's being so unreliable.


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## laird

Patches: no I didnt realise you had your appointment, i keep crying in mine too, its so frustrating isnt it........I know how you feel when no-one seems that worried about you and fairly laissez faire about the whole thing, when you have, like me, been waiting years! to them its like people such as us with HA arent really that worrying because they are confident that we will get pregnant eventually and especially in your case when you have your period, so your body has shown that it CAN do it.... I feel your frustration though i really do.

Our consultant popped in to see us sat and he really has shown himself to be an idiot. He started arguing with us about IUI asking us why we didnt want to go home and have sex, did we not like sex?!!! seriously he said that and kept telling us how much we are costing them.  My GP has told me that they refuse to refer to him now and refer to a different county instead (im on the border of two)....arrghh. Having said that if it works i dont care!!  They are still taking it really steady and keep telling me that the latest research shows that the best approach is to keep going at the same dose.

My e2 was today 390! This is a record high for me. I now have 4 follicles at 10,11,10 and 12. the one at 12 is on my left ovary and is brand new today... so maybe its the one?!  or maybe not (this is day 35!)

Flossy: best of luck with your appointment. I asked about the pump but it wasnt available in my area. My consultant said he didnt see how the EP would work because it is an anti-oestrogen and I dont have any oestrogen. he also said the sample size was too small and was offhand about it.  To be honest i didnt push it because i needed to believe in him and for him to be on my side. Also if there was any chance that he thought it would work im certain he wouldve gone for it because the injectables cycle is sooooo much more expensive (as he keeps telling me). If you can get them to tell you what they plan to do as a follow up if Plan A doesnt work then it will set your mind at rest.  I was told I will be doing 3 x menopur cycles and if that doesnt work then IVF.

xxx


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## Flossy_5

Staceys - he does sound like an insensitive idiot. There are plenty of people everyday costing the NHS money and loads of them doing things to themselves they well know are bad for them, smoking, drinking, overeating etc. So don't let him make you feel bad, especially when you were actually just living a healthy lifestyle. How far along are you know with the first menopur cycle? Do they count one as being sucessful ovulation?

Patches - So sorry to hear about the stressful appointment, you hadn't already said about it so no repeating. I hope something does happen for you naturally, but if you do move to Clomid, it sounds like your oestrogen is much higher now than it was then. You aren't alone with crying, I was a mess when I had my Hycosy done a few weeks back and I have a feeling there will be tears this week too. Do you have the article about the Clomid EP? I'd like to see the study in full.

I'm still waiting waiting waiting. However I am convinced that something is going to happen soon as I'm getting increasing amounts of daily CM which is very unusual after such a long drought!!


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## laird

Hi,

Day 37!  still got 4 follicles and they are just going up and down each time between 11 and 13 and a lining of 5.  They dont seem to want to increase the dose though.  I want so badly to 'do' better so I can impress the nurses/scanners!  They seem perplexed by me. My oestrogen was 390 the other day so that got their hopes up but then not really any change.  If I ever get a follicle up to 17 (at least) then they will give me another hormone as a trigger (they also need my lining to go up to 8mm) and oestrogen needs to be around 600+

Thanks for your message Flossy, it's nice to know that people like you understand. I've got a very tough set of parents who are inclined to say I should stop thinking 'why me?' (my mum said that the other day!)  you are absolutely right that I have never cost the NHS anything and the reason I had a low fat/high fibre diet was to try and control my IBS myself.

Nice one on the positive signs, it's so horrible waiting isnt it?!  I hate to go on about it but I have put on over 2 stone so I was rather hoping that my body was all raring to go, obviously not!

Good luck with your appointment, let us know how it goes xx


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## jooles

Hi Ladies   

WOW im so glad I have found this thread - we have been trying to conceive for 5 years and have been receiving tx for about 4 years with no hint of a pregnancy - we had 8 months of clomid, appx 10 courses of OI and have just started drugs for 3rd and last round of IVF which should be completed by the end of this month  - this is our 2nd private ivf and although its hard we will have to call it a day sometime   I have been diagnosed as being hypo/hypo and of course this is the cause of our problems  

I am 5.6 and weigh nine stone  2 pound - by reading your posts it seems that putting weight on seems to make a difference so I have been trying to eat extra food and more nice chocolately and unhealthy snacks    after all the years of reading and hearing how this can be a good thing and will prepare my body for the treatment it is about to receive why oh why do i always feel so bloody guilty if I eat things I normally dont then work all week on getting the extra few pounds off!!!!!!!!!!!!! ideally I would like to weigh about ten stone but the thought of being at that weight is daunting!!!!!

phew ive never actually put that down in words or shared it with anyone else!!! I'm really never this moany (honest) but ive just had a major pigging out session and feeling guilty although my dh is delighted im eating more   

sorry girls that this 1st post is a bit of a downer and very me me me but i would to hear your thoughts on this and how you dealt with putting on extra weight and changing your eating habits without having a bloody guilt trip or wondering what other people will think!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

Jules


----------



## laird

Hi there,

Firstly my oestrogen was 590 yesterday, hooray, something happening, no follicles still (nothing above 13) but at least ive proved to myself i can produce oestrogen.... back tomorrow...

Welcome Jooles!  It sounds like youve had a terrible time, did you take menopur?  did you ovulate on it? how old are you? what did you weigh before? are you a hardcore exerciser? did your doc tell you to put on weight before treatment?

Right well i was so convinced that putting on weight would solve my problems i just did it and quickly. I started eating more and more fatty foods and completely stopped cardio exercise. My main reason for doing this was that i completely see myself in the descriptions of Patches/Flossy/Twiglet and numerous others on Fertilethoughts.com (and now you)  the thing we all have in common is a too strict/restricted diet and/or too much exercise, basically whatever we thought we were doing to 'look after our body' or 'stay slim' has damaged our fertility.  Whatever we think about anorexics/posh spice etc pumping them out, the facts are there. I dont understand WHY I'm like this, why my body has decided to 'switch off' but it has and it gives me a sense of control to know that I can somehow fix it.

It hasnt worked as quickly as i would like (hence the menopur) but i do believe that without the extra weight i would have no chance of ovulating (and if i did i wouldnt be able to carry the baby to full term) so at whatever stage it helps for me to have put this weight on i truly believe that it will help.

I hate feeling bigger (Im not going to lie) but its the only way. My DH is happy because he says he gets to cook and eat more interesting things!  I have stopped thinking so much about what i should be eating and try and listen to what my body wants. I have packs and packs of nuts and seeds all over the place and snack on them (rather than fruit or low fat snacks) whenever i feel hungry. Before all this i wouldve had a fit at the thought of eating lots of nuts (one look at the side of the packet would have finished me off) but i really am over that now.  I also eat two servings of full fat diary a day and i have to say i thorougholy enjoy it.

Can i also just say that i have known of several people who have had successful IVF after three/four goes, who knows why it suddenly works but it just does sometimes.  

So good luck with the weight gain, i hope it works for you and that you can get help from us, it certainly has helped for me just knowing there were others like me....
xx


----------



## laird

Sorry just to add that the way my mind works is that if i put on weight and the treatment works then i will think that it was because of the weight gain. If the treatment doesnt work i will think that it didnt work DESPITE the weight gain and i will know that i did everything in my power.... xx


----------



## Flossy_5

Hi there,

Welcome *Jooles*. Wow, you have had a very long emotional journey. There are others in the same boat, but not many I'm realising.. Ditto Staceys' questions. Particularly, how far back has your restrictive eating gone and how long has it been since you've been at that good weight? It sounds like you've had a lot of treatment and I just wondered if it hadn't worked because your weight was still too low at that point? Also are you in the UK and have you had other tests e.g sperm analyses for partner, tubal tests, ovary scans?

I can't lie that initially getting over putting on weight and eating fats was hard. I did try and kid myself that half a stone was enough but I know it wasn't. I am nearly back up to my original weight now and to be honest, I am starting to accept this and actually feel good about it. I've had compliments that I look better and because I feel like I am so nearly there that has given me the motivation to feel positive about it and keep going. In terms of how much weight gain is enough, I've decided that aiming for a specific weight, dress size or even BMI isn't really helpful because we are all so different. e.g. two people a size 10 - One could have a tiny frame but quite a bit of fat covering it, the other could have a very large frame and only a small layer of fat. I guess it is whatever is normal for each of us - and that means being honest about the weight we knew we functioned at.

Staceys - your certainly going great guns in the right direction (is 600 the magic numer??) and I guess the worst thing right now would be to blow it by increasing the dose too much. I hope the above doesn't make you feel bad as you really have given the weight gain a good go. For whatever reason you just need the extra push from drugs, but as you say the weight gain was vital to support it.

I've just had my follow-up appointment. Thankfully I was told that the cysts are NOT PCOS, but follicles that haven't been able to fully mature. It was confirmed that it is a hormonal / hypothalamic / Hypo-Hypo problem. However, he thinks that from what I've said I am very close now to re-gaining my cycle. We have therefore agreed no drugs yet and I am inclined to agree as I would like to go it alone for a while. I didn't insist on a back-up prescription because I am inclined to agree and to be honest need a bit of space to prepare myself for such a huge change (financially and the impact on my job). I think my main concern is we'll get to the next appointment, and things won't have changed quickly enough, as you all have found.

Patches, Twiglet, hope things going ok with you.


----------



## Patches

Hello all!

Wow - loads of good stuff going on here  *Stacey* - that's great that your e2 is rising and if that biggest follie was the new one then that's very promising that it could be the one to rare ahead! Your dr sounds like an eejit but I agree with Flossy that you definitely don't want to be risking overstimulating now. Were you planning to do IUI on this cycle or was that the doctor being random? I cannot believe that the doctor is guilting you about how much it costs though. Not only were you trying to be healthy but you've done loads to try to fix it yourself too. Would you think about moving to the other region if there's a next time?

*Flossy* - I absolutely agree that hanging on a bit longer is the best plan when you've started to get such good signs. My doctor also said that cm is the best sign of activity. I'm keeping everything crossed for you! Do you chart your temperature? That's another good way to check what's going on (though a rise goes with ovulation so you need to catch it before that - look out for a small dip just before that). Wouldn't it be amazing to catch the first one! Did they offer you a scan to see what was going on?

Welcome *Jooles*! I'm *so* glad you found us and that you felt you were able to write all that down (and don't worry about sounding down - as you probably saw I'm guilty of that all the time!). I think that Flossy and Stacey were spot on with their advice. I used to hang on to a target weight which seemed reasonable to me and then when it didn't have an effect got really down and thought it wasn't going to work. But when I realised that this really could be the answer I just abandoned that and any thought of x number of extra calories and ate *lots* of extra snacks - not necessarily all high fat ones, but lots of cereal bars, malt loaf, etc as well. Smoothies are a good way to get extra calories without feeling too full at mealtimes too. And in the end I found that I'd been hovering just below my critical threshold, and got a period about 8 weeks later. I can't say that I don't still fret about how I feel and what I eat but I promise you that getting your period (or a better response to drugs) gives you the reassurance that your body needs it. And in fact I've been really suprised how little difference it makes in terms of how I look (I'm pretty tall, which helps). If you're like me then being strict about eating is a comforting thing, but as the others said, letting go a bit makes meals so much more enjoyable for your family and friends too. Isn't that better than feeling stressed - and also risking passing on eating issues to a child? It sounds as though in your heart you know you need to be a bit heavier so please please give it a try. If it doesn't work you don't need to stay heavier, but if it does - all this heartache could disappear. Stick with us and let us know how you're getting on! (hope this doesn't sound preachy by the way - I just recognise so much of my heartache in your story and really hope we can help)

AFM, after all my upset last week I really do think something is happening now (yah boo sucks to the nasty nurse who told me I only had a 12mm follie!). I've had loads more EWCM (sorry, tmi), and more heavy cramping. I had the teeniest faintest second line on an ovulation predictor test on Saturday and a stronger though still quite faint one yesterday. I really hope I ovulate tomorrow - poor dp is being really good about manning up to sex on demand but it's hardly as romantic as it could be. I'm feeling loads more positive and thinking that I can accept 12 week natural cycles if necessary rather than risk trying clomid and having it not work. Thank you for your encouragement about all that though - it was very comforting. You're absolutely right that clomid has a much better chance of working now than before, but since my body is still doing everything at a snail pace I'm just concerned it might freak out and give up. Isn't it weird that we start to think of our bodies as having a mind of their own in all this!

Phew - sorry for the huge post. Work was crazy last week so I wasn't able to get on here sooner. xxx


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## Patches

PS - when I say 'only' a 12mm follie - those were her words not mine! I think a 12 mm follie is pretty good going...


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## laird

Hi all,

Right well just to continue my story.... went back friday and although I only had a 14 follicle (still the biggest yet for me) my oestrogen went up to 1300. Yikes.  So they called me back in saturday and I had a 17.5, 15.5 and a few others and my lining was 7.5 for the first time.  The sonographer told me that my ovaries looked overstimmed and said 'never mind at least you know your body will react to the drugs, maybe next time' so i went off holding my form feeling like i was going to cry.    Go in to see the nurse and shes all 'yippee we have lift-off' and they gave me the trigger shot.  On to my nephews first birthday party.

Home for BMS, hmm, little stressy but fine. Then the real BMS day (yesterday) and my DH cant do it.  I try to be calm.... that wears off quickly. I try to be saucy... that wears off too.  I try cajoling..... He then starts saying he's feeling 'sore' and freaked out from all the pressure and starts talking about having to use a syringe because he cant perform when im looking at him like im going to kill him.  We try again.  It doesnt work.    I tell him thats it, im going to kill him, cut off his appendage and shove it... you get the idea. Funnily enough that didnt put him in the mood.

We got there eventually but it was traumatic (and 6 hours later)

So Im in my first 2ww.

Hows all yous?


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## Patches

Oh Stacey - I don't know whether to cry for you or go yippeeee! So I'll go for the yippeee! I bet you're glad you stuck with that awful long cycle now?! I'm *so* glad you got to trigger - how mean of them to say you'd overstimmed. The definition varies a bit but I think it's five or more over 15mm so it sounds as though you were well under. Make sure you let us know how you get on! I really am sorry about the situation with dh though. I've actually been having similar worries myself as we've had a couple of times recently where my dp didn't 'finish' and he finally admitted all this stuff was getting him down. This was all on the day we had our last appointment which is probably why I got so upset. I'm very nervous about telling him we need to bms for several days straight but so far he's doing ok with it. I spend half the time paranoid we're not going to get there, but he needn't know that! Ah, how romantic this all is! Anyway, I'm glad you brought it up as I bet it's really common.

I just peed on an opk and had only the faintest shadow of a second line. My temperature hasn't gone up yet so I just hope it's coming. I'm so paranoid about not quite managing to ov. I must sound like a complete nervous wreck, honestly. Hopefully we can be almost-2ww-buddies, Stacey 

Flossy - here's the abstract of that article:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=17616859&ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

If you can't get the whole thing I'll see if I can get it (I work at a university so can access journals)

xx


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## laird

Ha Patches thanks for your encouragement.    I hope we can be 2ww buds......  DH actually phoned the nurse and asked her if there was any way round it because he couldnt maintain himself shall we say... if it hadnt been sunday night and all the shops closed i honestly think he wouldve bought a turkey baster.  I dont understand why my face  looking like 'i want to kill him if he doesnt hurry up' isnt attractive.  Its so hard for them too isnt it, he cried on saturday when we came away from the hospital, hes really excited that we actually have a chance for the first time! and then hes so upset with himself when he cant perform and, well id like to say, dont worry darling it doesnt matter but it so does!  He said he wonders how others manage when under such pressure, any pointers anyone? (im trying to be less impatient with him but im not very good at it)

they would only trigger if i had 3 or less at 17 or over. so i only really had one but  im hoping that my 15.5 would have caught up with the other. Yes im so glad we stuck with it and i wouldve been so massively disappointed if theyd called it off.  To think youve been through all this 3 times and others even more. we all so deserve this dont we!

xx


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## Patches

Hear hear!! It's so sweet that he was so excited though. I worry that mine will actually be very stunned if it ever happens (he says so himself as well). Still, at least we're forewarned. I also worry about making a big deal about needing to perform in case it makes it all worse. At least if it *really* was an issue you could go to IUI. Perhaps just telling him that might help? But fingers crossed you won't need to worry about the next cycle because you'll be pg!!


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## Flossy_5

Oh yey Stacey's and Patches, sounds like things really might be happening for you soon. Stacey's your account of the 'magic moment' had me in stitches. Lets hope that it's only the one cycle!!

Patches I haven't started temping yey as I've never seen the point yet. Maybe I will start doing this. I'm trying to keep my chin up to avoid having a pity party. I'm starting to get annoyed with myself because after agreeing to leave drugs for the time being, I made my next appointment but there are none until end of June. GGRRR. That seems like an age away. 

Anyway, don't want the last word to be moping so wishing you both losts of luck for the next couple of weeks. x


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## Flossy_5

Oh and just a quick question... I bought some strip OPK's as I thought if things do get going these could be helpful. I tried one today and it showed a really faint second line. Did any of you find this even when your blood test hormone levels were really low, or could this be a sign the LH is starting to pick up??


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## Patches

Ooh, Flossy, I'd say that's a very good sign! I never got any second line at all unless I really was having an LH surge. The strips seem to work slightly differently for different women (some don't get any lines ever) but I would bms like mad for the next few days and chart temps just to see if you get a rise in a couple of days. Wow - everything's crossed for you! (but never worry about being a pity party on here  )

I'm really hoping I have ov'd now. I had a small temp shift this morning but I do have my weird one sore boob thing which seems to go with ov. I'm keeping my fingers crossed it's not just wishful thinking as we had the same issue as you last night, Stacey - it was just one night too many for poor dp. I can sympathise with him and am pleased he was willing to try. Just waiting now. Hopefully we gave ourselves a decent try timing-wise.


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## laird

Hi,

Just a quick question.... do any of you know anything about progesterone suppositories? I've heard about them on the fertilethoughts thread but I don't hear of anyone in the UK using them or really what they are for?
Thanks xx


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## Flossy_5

Staceys - I think they are used in cases of Luteal phase defect, as you need a long enough luteal phase to support the implantation before the lining breaks down. The suppoditories I bellieve help to lenghten this phase to continue building a nice home for the embryo. However, I think there is also an argument for using them where hormones are low anyway as it possibly reduces the liklihood of m/c arising from insufficient progesterone. I saw some info on pregnancey loss . info which seems to give a counter argument so it seems the jury is out. Is there a nurse you can speak to about it? Or maybe pop a post on the fertile thoughts board to get their view. There are a number of ppl on there who seem really knowledgeable. xx


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## Patches

Hi! I'd heard the same as Flossy - lots of people on the other board use it to prolong the LP (an LP of less than ten days is too short for an embryo to implant). I mentioned it to my doctor and he didn't really say anything I don't think, and because my LP seemed to be about 12 days I didn't bring it up again. It could be worth asking - though in some ways seeing what happens the first time would give you more info for the future. Not that I'm suggesting you willingly put yourself through all those injections again if you don't have to!

Flossy- did you get any more positive opks?!


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## Flossy_5

I can't really tell anymore. I did another one last night - it was the same, showing a _very_ faint second line after about 20 mins. I can't work out though if you would see this anyway as it is where the line would come through. I found out yesterday my sister just got a positive. I'm really happy for her because she's had her own problems, but I'm also starting to feel a little left out as my other sister is due in the next couple of months. I just wish I could join the baby party too.


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## laird

Hi,

Good luck all, it sounds like theres a lot going on (hopefully) for us all at the moment. Thanks for your help about progesterone, thats what i figured. I will keep an eye on what happens this time.

Oh and by the way in answer to your earlier question Patches, we asked for IUI but he wouldnt let us because DH doesnt have any problems.... hence the comment about us not liking sex. He's weird im telling you.

I know what you mean about baby parties. I have lots of siblings (half and foster) and I have 8 nephews (no nieces)  i went to my nephews 1st birthday party after my 'trigger' appointment. couldve done without lots of screaming kids/babies. If i ever have one im not giving it a first birthday party, what on earth is the point?  xx


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## Patches

Ha - I know what you mean, Stacey - we went to dp's nephew's first birthday party straight from a scan appointment which showed I was likely to end up overstimming. Not much fun. Fortunately for me I don't like other children much anyway so it didn't make it too much worse than it would have anyway. My sister's pregnant too - number 3. Fingers crossed we all end up joining their club very soon 

I hate it when tests are inconclusive - sympathies, Flossy! The sort I use say don't read after 10 minutes so it's hard to say what to read into yours. I also wondered if I was imagining a second line by staring at it last week though! I think the best you can do (assuming you don't want to fork out for a super duper electronic ov predictor) is keep having regular sex and keep an eye on signs like EWCM and temperatures. Sigh - I suppose we're all good at waiting by now.

Do you feel excited about the 2ww, Stacey? I'm feeling totally numb - still not 100% certain whether I'm in it or not and can't even imagine a scenario where I could be pg. I suppose it would make it a more amazing surprise though! I might go to the clinic for a blood test tomorrow so they can measure my progesterone and see if I did ov - I still have a form left from last time so I could just go straight to the phlebotomist. Last time my form said it was for a 21 day test. The nurse asked when my last period was and I said about 68 days ago - she didn't even bat an eyelid!


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## laird

Hi,

I'm tired of thinking 'what if' already, im covering both bases thinking 'what if i have to do another cycle' because rationally i will statistics and all.  I have had really sore nipples for the last few days but that could be PMT of course, ive forgotten what thats like!

By the way, i just had a quick look on fertile thoughts and i couldnt find where the thread started but someone was saying they had Reynaulds (really cold fingers to the point they turn blue) i have suffered from this too for about 6 years and just wondered if any of you had and what the connection was thought to be if any...

xxx


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## Flossy_5

I've always joked about having Raynaud's because my hands will be freezing unless they are in my sleeves, round a warm cup or under direct sunlight - even if the rest of me is warm. But really I put this down to just being one of those people who easily feels the cold and I guess not having much insulating fat exacerbates the problem. I'm not sure if there is any link between Raynaud's and low body fat per se or whether it is a byproduct of lack of insulation. I do think my circulation is a bit poor anyway as all of my extremeties seem to suffer - hands, feet, nose, and bum cheeks?!?

Staceys I do hope the next week goes quickly for you, it must be agonising waiting. I can imagine I would be trying hard to remain level headed about it too, just in case. Annoyingly I am relentlessly optimistic about things, so I keep getting my hopes up about every little sign and then end up dissapointed. Can I ask, how long was it between your weight levelling off and deciding to go for the menopur? I am trying to go the natural route, but I'm getting impatient already and not sure if it is actually working.


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## laird

Hi Flossy,

Yes I know what you mean, I always feel the cold but I do think its got better since I gained some fat.  I gained weight about 18 months ago and then some more a year ago when advised to do so. I have been at more current weight around 6 months.  I feel that it hasnt made any difference to me as I have been noticing things like more CM for 18 months but still havent ovulated or even had a withdrawal bleed from provera.  My doctor was slow letting me have treatment because he was hoping i would start cycling myself, if i couldve started it sooner i would have.  When i started the menopur i had to have a high dose to get my ovaries going because he said they hadnt been doing anything for ages.  I was disappointed about this as I hoped that they wouldve been giving it a go themselves but clearly not!

I know the weight gain was and is necessary anyway as i did have low body fat and i would therefore have been unlikely to keep the pregnancy if i ever got pregnant but for me the weight gain hasnt made an obvious difference to my fertility, it seems that once my ovaries had been turned off they needed a kick to get started.

Thats just me though and certainly from what i have read other people do get their period back without meds..... Its a big undertaking, in the last week i was at hospital 4 days in the week! 

Hope this is helpful
Stacey xx


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## Patches

I also have cold hands and feet all the time! I don't know if Raynaud's itself is related but being thin certainly makes you feel the cold more. I don't think I feel quite so bone-achingly cold as I did a year or two ago when I was at my thinnest though. Luckily my dp is a furnace!

Sorry to hear you're feeling a bit antsy, Flossy (though totally understand why). If only we knew that in x number of months it would be ok it would be so much easier, wouldn't it? I did it a bit back to front - I gained some weight, did quite a bit of treatment, but then gained a bit more and started cycling on my own. Looking back I would definitely have gained more at the start as in my case it was clearly linked and I could have saved myself an awful lot of stress and misery. But I couldn't have done it without finding that there were other people in this position and once I'd found that I made the changes as quickly as I could. I still think your new signs and symptoms *are* definitely evidence that your body is going in the right direction, but that also means that the chances of responding well to drugs are improved too. It's such a personal decision - you should go down the route that you think will give you most hope/least stress at any particular time. I'm in the same boat - carry on alone which could take years, or go back to drugs which I find incredibly stressful but would let me know what's going on more reliably. I'm aware of my age as well though - I'm 34 now - and also my dp doesn't have amazing morphology so I'm feeling the pressure on those fronts too. If you feel you have more time then that's obviously a factor too.

Hi Jooles, if you're still reading! I hope you're getting on ok.

Stay positive, Stacey! You must be nearly at ten days, mustn't you, which is a good sign *at the least* that your luteal phase is decent. I read that it's good to visualise implantation and so on but I find that my brain just won't let me. I'm feeling a lot more positive than I was last week when I was having work stress too, but still can't imagine I'm possibly pg. I still don't even know for definite I ovulated! Isn't it funny remembering what cycles are actually like? I didn't even register I hadn't had cm for years until I started reading these boards.


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## Patches

PS - just heard back from the clinic - my progesterone was 35 on Friday so I did ovulate - yay!!!!!


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## Flossy_5

Oh hooray Patches, that's really good news. You are definately in for this 2ww then.

Thanks both of you for the advice on treatment or not. Some days I think I'm nearly there and other days still so far. I'm antsy coz its my 30th this year and back when I was naiive thinking you can have babies on demand, 30 was the age I always pictured. Well I can't do anything for the next 3 months, so I really should stop wishing the days away and enjoy things. 

I also meant to say last post hello to Jooles if you're still reading. 

xx


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## laird

Hi,

Nice one Patches that's brill!    I phoned my clinic yesterday and they hadnt got my progesterone results back.  So now I'm paranoid thinking its taking them longer than usual maybe they just dont want to tell me it didnt work!  (stupid i know but i think slight neuroticism comes with the territory)
Its day 9 today, what would you say is a good luteal phase then? give me something to aim for at least! I'm not being negative, just managing my expectations!

How soon are you going to test? I have read on the US boards that the trigger shot stays in the system for 10 days so i cant test until at least thursday, id hate to get a false positive.

Flossy, I think patches advice is great (and im 33 too) try not to put too much pressure on yourself, youre a positive person, youll get there and maybe we will all appreciate it a bit more because of the horrible time we have had.

Remind me to never watch the Wright Stuff again, yesterday they were going on about how IVF was wrong because people should just accept their lot in life and not want things they cant have. it made me so angry....
xxx


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## Patches

Thank you both  It makes so much difference having other people to talk to about these things  
I read that a 10 day luteal phase is ok for implantation, Stacey, so you're nearly there!! Last time I got my period at about day 12 but I'm trying not to think too much about when to start hoping. I feel loads more positive since I got the progesterone results though. I hope you get your results soon and I'm absolutely sure they wouldn't hold off if it wasn't good news. With the trigger shot you definitely should have anyway. 

I'm glad you're feeling a bit better, Flossy. I really utterly totally sympathise but it's really good that the doc thought you were moving in the right direction, and things like the cm don't lie. I forget what you said about weight gain etc - are you holding steady or still trying no nudge up a bit?


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## laird

Hi,

Yes they phoned me yesterday and said that my day 21 progesterone was 58! Hooray. At least I havent got that to worry about too!    I'm not having any symptoms of anything though... even the nipple pain has gone so i put that down to ovulation rather than anything else.  Having reflexology tonight so thats always nice and trying not to test, may try and wait until saturday....

x


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## Patches

Yay!! Great news   I'm also symptom spotting left right and centre, but I think many people have none at all anyway. I worry that every twinge is the start of a period, but nothing so far. At least the end is in sight - just come on here if you need some encouragement to stay away from the pee sticks until Saturday!


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## laird

Hi,

When was your actual day of ov then? when are you testing?  I will be 13 days post ov on saturday, do you think thats when i should wait til?

The nurse told me to wait until monday, ha, very funny.

xx


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## Flossy_5

Staceys - I guess really you should wait until Monday but I can't lie, I would probably try it on Saturday.....and Sunday... and so on... Try to stay strong though as if sperm meets egg a couple of days after ov, thats only 11 days for implantation and HCG might not have risen enough by then. 

It is hard to listen to people being against IVF, especially if they've never needed to consider it. Me personally, I  am in favour of IVF for fertility problems, but don't agree with it for fiddling genetics. But in the same way as Nadia not having experienced infertility, I've not experienced the pain of genetic abnormalities and in this respect, I would never take a blanket view of IVF. Rather it depends on the individual circumstances. 

Patches - you must be about the same stage as Staceys aren't you? that's so cool. Best of luck to both of you.

About the weight gain - I'm now 122lb (5' 5'') so a BMI of 20.4 ish. I know this would still be considered a little low, but this was my weight for 10+ years so its normal for me.  I could go up a little more, but this would be a real challenge. Also I've just recently re-introduced running - only about 1 hour per week with a group. I hope its not too soon though as I really enjoy it. Up until a few weeks ago I stopped all exercise so this is the only exercise I do now.


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## laird

Hi,

I know what you mean about not wanting to gain more, if someone could tell me it would definitely make a difference i would do it but i too am back to where i used to be (just about) and my BMI is 21.4 so im not keen to just keep going.  I know they say on the US forum that running is the worst type of exercise for HA i dont really see why this would be the case.  Its a personal thing and i guess some people are addicted to running so they start at one day a week and then they find they are going every other day and really pounding it.... If it helps you and it feels right i wouldnt beat yourself up about it.

I like what you say about your feelings on IVF, did you see the programme?

i cant say im itching to get at the test strips. I dont feel like im pregnant, i dont feel anything at all and i dont want to get a negative result which i cant do anything about. If i wait and get a negative result at least ill know its a true negative and ill be able to get on to the hospital and start planning what next. If i test now theyll just tell me to go away and wait anyway.  i dont mean to be negative (gosh theres that word again) but i feel i can cope better without getting my hopes up.,

Hope all well

xx


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## laird

As I thought, period arrived this morning. Bit surprised because I didnt feel it coming on at all. I have phoned the fertility unit as i dont know what happens next in terms of treatment.  It makes the luteal phase 11 days, isnt that considered short? i dont understand why when my day 21 was so high.  Great I really wanted another thing to worry about in addition to the BFN!

xx


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## Flossy_5

So sorry hun that AF arrived, must be a real kick in the teeth. Make sure you have a self indulgant weekend to give yourself some time and TLC. From what I've read a LP of 10 days or more is considered normal, but maybe anything under 12 is sort of borderline. So maybe it would be worth discussing progesterone again when you speak to someone next. Did they mention at your last appointment whether they would give you a break in between or whether they go straight onto the next lot of injections?

No I didn't see that programme but heard ppl talking about it. I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion, but doesn't mean it's right or wrong. Regarding runnning, I read too that its the worst for HA. I was never a massive over-exerciser before but probably went a bit OTT considering I was never one for regular exercise before the 'health drive'. I have so far kept it in moderation, but I'm worried about old ways slipping back in.


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## laird

Hi,

They phoned me this morning and said if I want to they are happy for me to start the injections again. I'm glad to have another go to focus on, The nurse said she would mention possibly using progesterone to the consultant.  I'm a bit stressed about the whole thing though because as much as I want to get right back on it I'm going on holiday on the 16th April and we have paid the balance in full (£800) we have cheap flights and have rented a villa so we would pretty much lose the lot if we had to cancel. 
I am to start on 75 for a week and they will see me for a scan and bloods next weekend. I'm trying to convince myself that the timing is ok, it gives me a full 28 days.... it took exactly 28 days last time from when I went up to 75 and they say it should be quicker the second time.  Eek.  Could work out nicely that we are in sunny Majorca for 1 week of the 2ww though..... 

Sounds like you are pretty level headed about the whole thing Flossy. DH is taking me to the new jamie oliver restaurant tomorrow, he bought home a print out of the menu last night for me to study on, looks really nice!

thinking of you Patches... hope you're ok

xx


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## Patches

I'm so sorry Stacey   If it's any consolation I'm there with you - AF started last night. I hope you're feeling ok and I'm glad you have a new cycle to get started on. Just think- it's the first real chance you've had and that's really really great. At leas you know you do respond to the drugs so hopefully the next cycle will be less stressful. I've read quite a few posts from people worried about going away at the end of a cycle and most of them seem to get round it either by working out when they need to trigger (obviously this relies on being able to keep the trigger shot chilled!) or by relying on the lead follicle being big enough to ovulate on its own. You'll know much more by the time it gets close so hopefully you'll have the opportunity to plan it out. I'm going to ask about progesterone support as well as my LP is also only 10-12 days.

AFM - I'm feeling a bit weepy today because I'd got a bit more hopeful after getting the progesterone results. I had a big chat last night to dp about whether to go natural again and risk the same v long cycle, or go to clomid and risk it not working. I think we're both leaning towards going natural again. If either of you have any thoughts on that I'd be interested to hear  My problem is that my history of cancelled cycles has made me feel very negative about the hospital so I'd rather avoid it if I can! But then 3 month cycles aren't exactly conducive to conceiving any time soon...

I hear you on the weight gain - I felt just the same before I got my period - I really used to beat myself up about it. I pretty much got back to where I'd been in my late teens/early twenties which was higher than when I first started my periods. That was very confusing as I knew I'd ovulated at that weight as an adult, but I also knew I had quite a different physique then. I think you're right about the running - a lot of runners on the US board seem to be really addicted and get such a high from stacking up the mileage that it takes a massive toll on their metabolism. If you're confident that you can keep the balance right then I don't think there's any harm if it makes you feel better and less stressed.

I hope you're both feeling ok - and that you enjoyed Jamie, Stacey!   xx


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## laird

Hi Patches, sorry to hear that, its so tiring isnt it, one step forward, one step back and never really allowing ourselves to think that it might actually work!   As for what to do next, well its tricky isnt it, i think if i were you i would go for medication again (but thats me ultra impatient) at least then you know exactly what your body is doing and when. Your body is primed ready to go this time and you know so much more about how it works that you can dictate things a bit more at the hospital.  I have to say, i think youve done amazingly well tracking all your signs and everything and getting to ovulation, nice one you. I think id be driven mad by not knowing, at least i feel like i have some handle over whats going on.  Having said that im not getting periods myself so youre in a different position.  

Maybe if you are in two minds at the moment you could give it another go doing it the natural way telling yourself that if it doesnt work next time you'll go to treatment.


As for our holiday, ive asked the guy who owns the house to re-advertise it (and im half hoping he doesnt manage to find anyone) that way it takes the pressure off me. if we can still go and hes rented it out we will just have to find somewhere else to stay, im normally backpacking after all, i think i can manage not having somewhere to stay in Majorca! im not sure they would let me take the trigger shot away with me, they seem pretty strict about monitoring at my hospital

Having said that Im wondering if they are going to cancel anyway (the menopur) because i have just realised that the consultant said if i wasnt pregnant this time they would see me for a hyscy scan.... to check my tubes arent blocked. They havent ever done one and im not sure they will be able to do it midcycle.

Jamies was good by the way, id have just been happy with the pud!

xxxx


----------



## Flossy_5

Hello all,

Patches very sorry to hear your news too. Ditto Stacey in that if it was me I would probably go down the drugs route, but that is because I am very impatient and even though signs for me are encouraging, waiting is proving very difficult when I know it could take ages even after first AF. However, it is a very personal decision and if your both leaning towards another natural cycle then maybe you could give it one more go. Although your cycles are long, at least you are getting them regularly so far. I suppose you have to also consider the number of hospital appointments with meds and it would depend how that would interfere with you daily life. I work some distance away from home and I am dreading the possibly having to keep going back for apps, don't know how much my employer would tolerate...

Stacey - If your consultant does decide you should have the hycosy then it would cancel out this cycle as it can take a while to get the appointments. I guess that would take the pressure off around the holiday, as the added stress wouldn't help either. 

Nothing exciting going on for me, just trying to carry on with life I suppose and trying not to obsess too much over all of this stuff. Think I need some sort of new hobby as I have noticed I always seem to have to have something I'm working on or aiming towards (hence the healthy eating taken too far) and now it has become obsession with TTC. Must get back onto the cupcake decorating hobby - two birds with one stone aswell.


----------



## laird

Hi,

They have said I can cancel this cycle and have the scan or keep going and if it doesnt work this time have the scan. No prizes for guessing what i went for..... yep carrying on!  I know what you mean about having other things to think about, its not easy though is it. It doesnt get easier when you start having scans/bloods every few days, way too much to study on!  xx


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## Patches

Thanks for the support ladies -- much appreciated  I did decide to go the natural route again this time, but with a view to going on to clomid next time if it doesn't work. In the meantime I've been a bit stressed as my period was *really* light - much lighter than last time and now I'm worried in case my lining didn't thicken up or something. I'm not really sure what to do about that short of writing to the doctor to ask his opinion. I think this shows I'm totally with you both on obsessing over things!

Stacey - glad to hear you're back on the wagon again and I hope it all works out ok with the holiday. Keep us posted on how you get on with the cycle!

Flossy - I agree - more hobbies are definitely a good distraction. I also love baking - maybe we should do a course


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## laird

Hi Patches,

I have forgotten what a normal period is like. What would you say?  My lining was 7mm at trigger and I had fairly heavy days thurs/fri/sat and a little sun.  Is that normal?!  I love baking too, im not very good at it though xx


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## Patches

I'm not sure I know either!! The first two I had since I started cycling again were maybe 3 days proper and a day or two light. This one was really only a day proper and about three days light. Since you know you had a decent lining and that you did ovulate I wouldn't worry too much about it  - three good days sounds perfect to me 

I'm baking some banana bread tonight for dp to take away for the weekend - I'm trying a new recipe from the Hummingbird Bakery cookbook. I'll let you know if it turns out well 

I hope you're both all enjoying the sun. Zita West (fertility guru type person) thinks that the start of spring is an excellent time for fertility and fertility treatments


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## laird

Hi Patches, I guess it should give you heart that yours was fine too because mine sounds similar to yours (when i say heavy i dont think it was particularly heavy compared to other people it wasnt even when i was a teenager) and I know my lining was 7mm. 

Yes its so much easier to feel positive when the sun is shining, i can feel my whole body relax. I have spent nearly 3 years recently in blistering heat and i have really struggled with all the cold here so its got to be a good thing. I've always said i was born in the wrong country.

My friend baked me a carrot cake from that very same book, it was really nice..... where's your DP off to?

xx


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## Patches

Wow - can't believe we're on 12 pages! 

Thank you for your encouragement, Stacey - you're absolutely right. And I guess if you didn't have particularly heavy periods before (I didn't either) then that's another good sign. I'm really learning that every woman is different!

The banana cake looked very promising when dp packaged it up (he's off to see friends overnight - he has a really nice group of male friends he's known since school and they like to get together pretty frequently), and the mixture tasted v good - always my main taste test! One of my friends has made the Passion Cake from that book too and it was really nice (like a carrot cake but actually not with carrots in it!)

I'm glad the sun is making you feel better. I'm going to try to fit in a short walk as a break during the afternoon. It's too nice to waste, since it's not supposed to last to the weekend!

Hope you're well too Flossy  - and Twiglet if you're still reading - hope all's going well


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## laird

Hi all,

i'm finding it harder even than last time to stay sane.  started injecting 75 units and went in after a week. There was a 15mm follicle and 4mm lining but my e2 was only 195. Back 2 days later and the 15mm is now 16mm and the lining is 5mm but my e2 has gone down to 150 so they now know it is an old follicle left over from last time and there is no egg in it. Back today and I still have the old one and a 11mm on the other ovary and they are insisting I just stay on the 1 vial. Cue crying from me and whinging about my holiday (16th april) she went and had a word with the consultant and said 'Ok go up to 1.5 a day and come back friday'.  I can't believe they wanted me to stay on 1 vial until friday despite it being day 13 already.  I read the US boards and it drives me crazy, we take it so slowly here and it doesnt appear to me that it works any better then it does in the US.

So how are you two, hope you are well and had a good weekend. Patches terms nearly over right?!.... I finish work friday for ages! I'm doing some reading support in a local school (i can get there in 20 mins on my bike) starting in a couple of weeks.  I like doing it and i like the other people at the school so its good. I feel guilty about not working 'properly' but i think i would explode with the stress if i had to do something full time again.

xxx


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## Flossy_5

Staceys - eek, can't believe its been 13 days already. No wonder you're feeling antsy. I wish I had some advice to give about the dose, I guess its always a fine balance between two little and too much without ruining the whole cycle. I would imagine in the US if they have to pay for the meds themselves they may be more likely to go quicker. I'm glad they have listened to the tears and tantrums and agreed an increased dose though. Fingers crossed timings will still be ok as you really deserve that holiday.

I know how you feel about stuff in the UK being so slow though. However, in many respects I have more faith in our Uk doctors. They are not motivated by money and from reading the US board it seems that a lot of basic mistakes have been made by some doctors. Here I was told from the off that my weight was the problem (with the exception of the incident at the scan). I don't know how I will feel if I start having treatment, hopefully I will still have faith in them.  I really hope they will let me try meds when I go back. I feel like I'm going to be in the same boat as you Staceys i.e. no cycles even after gaining weight. I've now hit 12 months of no period so a bit of a down week for me.

Patches, hope things ok with you. And on the notes of cakes again - that Hummingbird book is great isn't it. I have done the black bottom cupcakes and the hummingbird cake, both really yummy. xx


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## laird

Hi,

For me I felt so much better getting treatment because I finally feel like I have some chance of getting pregnant. Flossy you have the luxury of some extra years on me!  I know what you mean about the money issue but conversely because we cost the NHS money i felt that my consultant held off for ages doing anything with me because im bad for his figures, i cost loads of money!  I now know that he would be doing everything he can to make it work and he certainly isnt saving money by using a long, slow protocol.  Everyone is really nice. helpful and efficient at the hospital  i go to so i cant complain really.

Patches, did you do back to back menopur cycles?  They seem pleased that my oestrogen isnt 'in my boots' as the nurse said (is that a midlander saying, ive never heard it before!) and that my lining is 5mm but im not sure if thats just residual oestrogen/lining from last time, any thoughts?  I didnt have a base line scan this time so its frustrating not understanding what is going on.  

Oh and I have been having bad headaches this time and couldnt understand why. Then i read article yesterday saying that they are caused by the drop in oestrogen in a womans cycle.  That really resonated with me as i never used to get them.  Now im just waiting to see if they go any time soon!....

xxx


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## Patches

You poor love, Stacey   I'm sorry it's stressful. I do think that the long slow protocol is better for us esp since in the USA they basically let you overstim - they aren't nearly so worried about multiples there are they are here which I think is quite irresponsible. I'm really surprised that they didn't see the old follicle right at the start though - did they do a baseline scan? I never had blood work done so I would never have known what my e2 was doing - perhaps try not to worry too much about that especially as it will reflect how many follies there are as well as how big they are. You want just one or two good ones so it looks as though you're doing well even if it's slow. If one gets big enough it may ovulate on its own as well so that could be an option if you're still injecting when you go away - take the menopur but not the trigger shot (are you flying anywhere? I think that's ok as long as you have a medical note to say the drugs are medical). If it's any consolation I used to inject for that long too and I wouldn't usually be on two vials until the very end.

I don't think I ever did do two back to back but that's because I was too miserable after each one! Plus it was only the first one which brought on a period as the second two I never got to trigger. However many people do - though usually with a baseline scan at the start to check there are no old follies/cysts. You shouldn't have any residual lining though as it would have been shed in your period.

Sorry to hear you're feeling sad too Flossy. I hope you take heart from the fact that many women on the US board got pg without ever having had a period - it sounds as though perhaps you're done with waiting now? That used to be the thing that upset me above all - just waiting. I would be much keener to move onto treatment too if it wasn't for my bad experiences before. I just want to stay away for as long as possible while I'm still cycling, however slowly!

AFM, I'm managing to stay relatively upbeat. If I have a bad day then I get a bit down about how long everything still takes (I'm on day 12 or 13 now and 'normal' women would be ovulating again - makes me laugh!!) but on the whole I feel much more positive that it will happen *some* time. At this rate you'll both be pg long before me though! I've accepted that I can't expect my body to be normal, and that it will take a long time for things to shorten up. I was never a 28 day girl anyway.

I hope you're both doing ok - and please don't feel guilty about not working, Stacey. Use the time to make sure you stay sane and as happy as you can!!


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## laird

Hi Patches,

Thanks so much for your support, its massively appreciated.

I'm surprised you didn't get bloodwork done every time. I get blood taken at every scan. Its interesting because they can tell more about what is going on. Having said that I didnt get a baseline scan which wouldve helped me.

I dont think they would let me take menopur away with me because by then I would be having regular appointments (or it wouldve been a bust) and we are going to Majorca for a week.

Appointment tomorrow should show more.

I know what you mean about waiting but you have come so far. Theres nothing to say that you wont get there quicker with a natural cycle. the experience of those on FT seem to be that cycles get shorter with time....

I really cant remember what type of girl I was. I know I never had any PMT like my friends/sisters. Maybe I was lacking in hormones even then...
xxxx


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## Patches

I didn't either - perhaps we were just lucky! 

I really hope the appointment goes ok - let us know how you got on


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## laird

Hi,

Today my e2 was 260, my lining is 5mm and I have 2 x 11mm and 10mm on right and 11mm, 10mm and several smaller on the right.  I'm a bit worried that I will overstim but at least something is happening!
Im staying on the same dose (1.5)

Have a good weekend (Im back for scan/bloods sunday)

xxx


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## Patches

Ah great - I'm glad you had some more progress. Fingers crossed for those two bigger ones  Has the bigger old one disappeared?

Have a great weekend and fingers crossed for Sunday

xx


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## Flossy_5

Hey Staceys, just wanted to say hope everything goes well for you Sunday. Sounds as though things are starting to move on a bit faster for you now. 

Patches - glad to hear you are still feeling ok about things, very wise words. I'm going to try and take a leaf out of your book and be a little more patient. 

Hope you both have lovely weekends. x


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## laird

Hi there,

Thanks for your support! Went on Sunday and everything exactly the same but still no dose increase. Back today and my lining has gone up to 6mm and I have 4 follicles around 11 (the highest at 12mm) so basically one has gone up 1mm (big wow eh as I used to say at school) but because it is going up rather than down they still will not increase the dose and i'm back in saturday.  This is doing my head in. the nurse insists they are not going to put the dose up in case all 4 shoot up and then its a bust.  Mothers day was not fun surrounded by well-meaning women asking me how its going....

How were your weekends, any signs yet? 

xxx


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## Flossy_5

'Big wow' I remember that phrase from the school days too!

Sorry to hear about the appointment being frustrating again. The good thing is you know from last time you got there in the end, but it does seem like quite small progress when time is pressing before the hol. Do you have confidence that the nurses have dealt with enough HA cases or are you worried still about that side of things? Also did you get a guage of whether your dose is similar to other people's? I do stalk the US board now and then and saw the posts from the lady who had an awful experience with overstimming, although having said that I do not know what dose (and increments) she was on at the time. I hope Saturday is a little more promising for you, lets hope you've got more of a clear winner by then.

Not much happening here, still just playing the waiting game. I haven't gained any more weight, stabilised at 122-124lbs ish, which could be my issue but not convinced. My perception is that I eat loads, or at any rate a good amount. I don't see anyone else in my office snacking as much as me (sometimes more than below). What do you think from the following typical day?

*Breakfast*: Porridge (65g oats), *Morning snack:* 1 or 2 crackers with peanut butter and piece fruit, *Lunch:* Tub of salad (80g soya beans, 1/3 avacado, sweetcorn, toms, lettuce, 1 carrot) + banana + cracker or two, *Afternoon snack*: Apple, maybe a few sweets, *Dinner:* Varies, e.g. Spag bol (75g pasta and bol made with 250g mince, shared between me and DP).
Additionally I will have a pudding usally 5 nights of the week e.g. a few biscuits, slice of cake or chocolate. And at weekends I usually have a sandwich or soup and bread for lunch instead of salad. Generally also more unhealthy dinners such as a pizza or fajias and chips.

I know this is probably a daft question, but I really don't know what a normal person eats anymore to guage if I'm doing ok.


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## laird

Hi,
Hmm, not sure how many people with HA they have dealt with but they are adamant that the latest research shows slow is better. I am intending to lay it on a little thick on Saturday if nothing has happened in the hopes that we can up the dose for a week before my holiday. They keep saying they are worried about me overstimming because if I end up with all 4 follicles growing they will have to cancel.  Last time I was on 2 vials for 2 weeks by the end and for the last week my e2 doubled every few days (it was 1300 by the end) so they do have a point (after a week I was hastling them to put it up to 2.5!)  Having said that I'm quite tempted to sneak in an extra bit..... I already did once by accident (im doing 1 vial one day and 2 the next and I did 2 concurrently.....)

I had reflexology again last night and my therapist was telling me about someone who had been told they had a really low sperm count but he is an accountant and it was 'year end' so he had loads of work on = stress so he re-did the test when he wasnt so stressed and it was completely normal. Just thought id pass that on....

Oh and you asked about my 'old follicle' no the darn thing is still there at 16mm!

As for eating, I totally know what you mean. I think in some ways my diet has improved because i can go out for the day not worrying about finding things to eat before i was always hungry and looking for healthy stuff, now i can eat on the hop like everyone else. Also because i have a large amount of nuts for breakfast it really does keep me going.

I would say to you Flossy that your diet looks perfectly normal (whats your BMI and what exercise do you do just out of interest?)
The only thing I would say that I do differently to you is that I have a large amount of unweighed nuts and seeds on my breakfast and I snack on them throughout the day. If I weighed them or bought them in pre-weighed bags i think i wouldnt be able to cope with the huge amount of caolries in them but because i just snack out of a pot i dont know and thats a good thing (which suggests to me ill never eat like a completely relaxed person but i can deal with that) Also I eat slices of cheese every day to make sure im getting enough fat.

I have a pudding every day now and dont weight myself every day like i used to. The last time i weighed myself i was 10 stone 3 pounds which is exactly what i was 6 months ago. So despite continuining to eat in a more relaxed way and do no cardio (apart from walking and a little cycling) i have not continued to just put on more and more weight which i had feared.


xxxx


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## laird

Question for patches.... I am on 1.5 vials of menopur but i have been told to do one vial one day and 2 the next which feels to me like the wrong thing to do.  All the helpful ladies on FT are saying that they refrigerate the menopur mixture and use the half the next day thus allowing them to do 1.5 per day.  Did you do that Patches? Im pretty sure my doctor would go crazy if i did that but the girls are all adamant that they have been told its ok...

Ta xx


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## Patches

Hi ladies!

Hmm, sorry to hear the progress is a little slow, Stacey, but I'm glad it *is* going in the right direction. I always went up in increments of half as well, but never went over two. When I was on one and a half I actually did one and a half per day - basically you dilute one measure as usual but only draw up half of it. Then you inject that half into the second vial but draw up the whole thing. So you end up with one and a half powders in half a unit of water so it's small but concentrated. Then you just discard the other leftover half. I never heard of saving the other half though if the US ladies do it it can't be bad. I suppose we're just lucky that we're not seeing each via in terms of pounds and pence. Anyway I hope it's going ok and that you get some good results at the next scan. Perhaps one and then two is actually a good thing as it gives you an extra little boost every other day - but you probably know better than anyone how your body is really reacting!

Your diet does look good, Flossy, esp with the avocados and peanut butter as well as the snacks. The only thing I'd say (and please don't hate me because I probably still do it myself) is that the way you write it down makes it look as though you're still very conscious of amounts. I think if you feel you can that following Stacey's suggestion of just snacking without measuring is a good one. It was only when I stopped thinking about a certain amount of calories or snacks that I had to aim for that I was really able to sort my head out a bit. Your daytime snacks are also still pretty healthy ones - though again, I can't talk because mine are too. Is that 75g of pasta between the two of you? We usually go on 50g per person - but perhaps your topping is heavier than ours. But it does look as though you have a good balance between calories and healthiness. I find it hard to put my finger on what the main changes I made were - or, honestly, how I've kept the weight on since as I don't really feel that I eat much differently from before - but I did drink smoothies daily, and tried to count stuff less. I've been stable for ages now, though I do still worry about gaining more (even though I know it could actually help regulate things better).

AFM, no signs of anything yet but I'm managing to stay much more chilled this time round (so far...!). I think that having an exhausting day with my little niece and nephew last weekend helped!


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## Flossy_5

Hey guys, just checking in as there's naff all of tv and I'm pretty useless at doing nothing. I started the weekend full of self pity - my younger sis had her baby. I'm dead excited for her but can't deny I'm insanely jealous that it seems so far away for me.  Well self pity and jealousy are an unattractive combo and its been such a glorious weekend that thankfully I've shaken that off.  But, mental note to self not to watch movies like 'knocked up' again, just depressing. 

Staceys - I was nosying over at fertilethoughts and saw you increased again. Hope it's what you need, sorry that things are still going so slow for you. 

Patches - Glad your still staying calm about it all. Know what you mean about looking after the nieces / nephews. Its funny when people ask if it puts me off, I joke that it does but inside I still think how lucky they are. Don't worry, no offence taken about the diet. It's a bit of a running joke between me and dp. If I'm slicing up cake I will actually get the scales out to make sure I get the slightly smaller one! Insane I know. But on the measurements side - the 75g rice / pasta is mine only, plus several large scoops of curry or chilli or whatever, hence me still thinking I eat quite a lot compared to others.  

Anyway enough rambling, hope you've all had lovely weekends.


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## laird

Hi,

Yes I have gone to a dose now because there was no change on Saturday at all and my e2 went down by half!!!!  WTF.  Then today I have x2 14mm follicles and my lining has gone down to 4mm (why oh why?!)

I await a phone call to tell me what to do next, if my e2 has gone down then I think I will be cancelling this cycle.

the nurse has told me what I have been telling them since this started which is that I would be a much better candidate for IVF, it can't be any more stressful than this and it would be better to know if my eggs are actually any good.

Thanks for getting back to me about the dose Patches, I will remember that next time.


I have just been on the US board as well, gosh we need some good news there some time soon...

My day can't get too much worse today I have had to go 22 miles to see a physician about my finger after being knocked off my bike last year, its still not repaired.  Then I have just been to visit my elderly uncle in hospital (I nipped up before my scan) who has dementia and I was just in time for the doctor to be doing their rounds.  He wanted to have a talk to me as my aunt was saying she couldnt hear him properly.  Anyway they say there is nothing more they can do for my uncle and she needs to let him go and be prepared.....  Try explaining that to an 86 year old woman who has been married to him for 62 years!  ive phoned my dad and asked him to go and help as I'm not the right person and anyway I had to go for my fertility appointment....  arrggghhh.  She is still saying 'what are they going to do to make him better'

She is 86 and her husband is dying so I will her off for saying to me about my appointment today 'why dont you just forget about it and then you will get pregnant'

  Hugs today for us all.....

xxxx


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## Flossy_5

Oh Staceys, I am sorry that you've had such an awful weekend. Dementia really is a cruel disease. I did a placement with older people and I loved the job and the great stories they told, but it was very sad too. Is your dad close to your Aunt? Hopefully he will be there to give her some support.

Your cycle sounds very stressful and though there is still lots of monitoring for IVF at least as you say you do not have to worry the whole stimulating enough but not too many follicles. I really don't know why the lining and e2 would reduce. Did the nurses have any answers? I wonder what makes the difference between it working for some but not others. Do you think there would be any merit in asking about Clomid again or are you just at the stage of wanting to go for the IVF?  

Take care. xx


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## laird

Hi Flossy,

Thanks for your message. Yes my Dad is really close to her, but they are both highly opinionated so it can be difficult! He has told her that this is the last thing she can do for her husband but she is still not wanting to let him go. Awful. They have only spent one night apart in 60 odd years and they even worked together their whole lives, I just can't imagine what it would feel like. 

What was your placement for?  are you a social worker?

Well they phoned me back to say they want me to carry on because my e2 has gone up to 390 so hopefully that will be reflected in the lining measurement when I go back tomorrow.  My body is seriously messing me about. The nurse said even the consultant wouldnt be able to give me any qnswers looking at the results. She just keeps saying it isnt an exact science.

I have in the back of my mind a question about clomid..... I should ask tomorrow if I can have a go with it if and when I get a period this time.

Everyone concerned thinks I would be better off doing IVF so I think that would be next, DH is up for it so I would be happy to move forwards with that.

xx


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## Patches

Oh Stacey, I'm sorry about your weekend. That sounds really hard about your uncle on top of everything else. I'm glad the cycle didn't get cancelled though, and as to IVF, if you feel it's right for you then I'd go for it. You're right that it would remove a lot of the stress because they could just dial the dosage right up without worrying about over-stimming. What's the deal with your local NHS Trust? Ours have currently suspended all free cycles though they may have sorted something out again now that we're in a new tax year. THey were thinking of changing the eligibility criteria but I chose not to get too upset about it as I was already upset about my body being crap at my last appointment!

I'm sorry to hear that you were feeling down too Flossy. It can be pretty lonely when other people have babies, can't it? I feel the same way - not at all fussed about other people's children but sad that I can't have that 'my own little person' feeling. I get much more upset hearing about pregnancies than about children. We can just all hope that it really is us some day soon.

I haven't been on the US board for a while as there were a whole load of new people and I lost track of who was who! Are they having a dearth of good news over there? I was really sad when ssej lost her BFP but I haven't really been up to date since then. It's funny that good news and less good news seems to come in cycles.

Good luck with the next scan, Stacey - and I really hope you get some more definitive advice too.

Thinking of you both
xxx


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## Patches

PS - Flossy, glad you weren't upset about the food thing, and 75g for one sounds v good  I was going to come back and post about what I eat just to make sure that I wasn't being too preachy but when I thought about it my meals don't really reflect what I eat as I snack all the time. I always did seem to snack more than everyone else but when I thought about it they were all really low calorie snacks. But for what it's worth I usually have a smallish bowl of cereal for breakfast, with added fruit and raisins, plus a glass of OJ and a mug of low cal hot chocolate. Mid-morning I eat an apple plus random bits of yogurt and yogurt covered banana chips if I'm at home. Lunch is usually stuff on toast, a houmous sandwich or some soup and a piece of toast. Afternoon snacks are random - banana, yogurt, dried apple rings, a bit of malt loaf, rice cakes and houmous - or a bit of cake if I feel I'm going too much down the low cal route. Dinner is soup and bread or home-made curry and rice, or stir fry and noodles or something like that. But I really do graze on stuff a lot - I always seem to be on my way to the fridge! Talking of which, I'm peckish....


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## Flossy_5

Ha yes I am Staceys, for my sins   
It is hard for all you all to see them go through it, but I guess your Aunt is going to hang onto him for as long as she can. I can't remember why DP and I were having such a morbid conversation, but only the other day we were talking about how strange it would be without one another - we've been together for 11 and a half years ago and even that seems like an age. 

Patches - thanks for indulging my daily diet insanity. Yours sounds pretty similar to mine, it took me ages to twig how I could have lost so much weight as before I was eating smaller meals, but probably more crap as opposed to now where I eat a lot more veg and healthy things. I am so much more relaxed now about snacking so think I'm getting there.


----------



## laird

Hi girls,

Back today and after 2 days the 14mm haven't grown at all.  The consultant came in and had a go at me about the holiday saying it was a waste of tax payers money (without listening to the fact that I said we wouldnt go if there was a chance of this working)  he then said 'i hear your partner couldnt perform'  and asked 'is he as stressed as you are?'  he then said 'I think it is stress that has stopped your periods'and when I said i wasnt a stressed person apart from this he said 'I think Stacey that you are and you are not the person to judge'

Needless to say i'm upset about the whole thing. My GP said I should have gone to a different area ages ago because they won't work with him. they refer everything to another consultant in the East Mids. My GP then got involved talking about second opinions and I saw a letter relating to this on my consultants paperwork so I think he has taken against me because he thinks I have questionned him.

Treatment-wise we are just waiting to see whether they are putting my dose down to coast for a while or putting it up depending on the e2.  I feel like giving up on the whole thing TBH.

Just before I went up for my appointment I went to visit my aunt/uncle.  he's hanging in there but not for long. My aunt is clutching him saying 'when one life goes Stacey....' So yes at the moment I am a bit stressed but idiotic consultants basically saying I am causing this myself don'thelp. It makes me want to lose all the weight again and if it wasnt for hearing all your stories I would probaby just think he was right and all these problems have nothing to do with my weight.

xx


----------



## laird

Hi,

AFM my e2 is 490 so they want me to do another 2 nights of 150iu and come back friday. I'm not hopeful about it though because he basically said if the 14mm follicles were viable they would have grown so it feels like we are back to the beginning really.  

Thanks for your support!


----------



## Flossy_5

What a P*%*$, scuse my french, do not listen to him talking such rot. He has no right to make you feel you are a drain on tax payers money. This is the second time you've mentioned him moaning about money - its not like you chose to be in this position and although we all know stress plays a part its also a very difficult thing to change (although I hear you that you're not a stressy person). My consultant asked me about my job and stress - to which I said its always stressful, and I've always been a stressy person but I kinda think my body has adapted to that as a baseline for me. He hasn't said anymore about it, but we'll see what he says next time. Is it too late to change from him now? Oh and I know you probably wouldn't lose all the weight but it would only make your body feel 'stressed' again. 

So I don't totally understand, if he's saying the follicles may not be viable, how come they want to carry on?

My sympathies to your situation with your aunt and uncle. Maybe her comment shows that on some level she is starting to accept the inevitable. x


----------



## Patches

What a terrible doctor!!! I'd definitely change if it were me, and if it didn't lose you too much time. An attitude like that is the last thing you need! You're absolutely right about you being the only one  that really knows yourself and your own stress levels and he has no right to make you feel as though you're wasting NHS money.  OR that your other half is a problem. Please please don't be tempted to cut back again - even if it turned out that it wasn't weight related now's not the time to make changes. 

I'm so sorry you're feeling this way and I hope that the next scan shows some growth. I know I keep talking about me, but I had three dismal cycles including one we gave up on, but I did start cycling on my own eventually.

When do you go on holiday? I really hope it's a tonic after all this and that you do get some resolution before that


----------



## laird

Hi,

Thanks guys, you have cheered me up no end....

Flossy: you are absolutely right, she is coming round to it, she's taken now to clinging to him and sobbing, I have never seen anything so traumatic.  I suppose it also taps into my fears for the future. 

I am tempted to change doctors and have made enquiries about doing so. He kept saying I was 'terribly brittle' and the words keep ringing in my head. What we are is OPEN, yes I have cried a few times over this past year in his office and my husband has phoned his secretary a few times.... DH thinks that probably most blokes who go there don't get involved like he does and we are both finding this whole thing stressful but not strangely so.  I wonder if fat people get harrassed by their doctors every time they go there about 'tax payers money' I think not.

I am back in tomorrow and not very hopeful about it happening tomorrow.  We are supposed to be going to Majorca saturday and we will not get anything back if we don't go. I am just looking up what the flights will cost if we don't get to go saturday (maybe later on in the week...)  I get the impression they will carry on until I either over stimulate or they get one dominant follicle, however long that takes.

Patches, I keep talking about you too! I keep reassuring DH that you had 3 cycles and they were really stressful for you and not successful and that you got your periods back on your own.

Flossy: hope all this isn't putting you off having injections in the future if it ever comes to that. It does seem that I'm a particularly difficult case. Some people have 10 days and it grows and pops and thats it.

xx


----------



## Patches

Aww, good - glad we could help   I'm really dismayed at the way the doctor is treating you (I don't mean medically, but the things he's saying). It's pretty outrageous, especially given the efforts you've made to help  the situation. You sound remarkably chilled to me given the circumstances - I'd put that 'terribly brittle' thing right in the bin if I were you. And I also think it's *great* that your husband is so involved - I think that support for the menfolk is really low, and the doctor should be impressed that he's concerned. Our doctor is actually really nice about that - my dp is generally really quiet in appointments because I have tonnes of questions, but the doc always addresses us both and treats us as a couple. And please do use me as an example to him! My experience may not have been good but I wouldn't have despaired of still getting the dosage right on another cycle. I'd also had IVF thoughts though, since I didn't seem to respond well to menopur - or rather, responded eventually too well.

I really hope that you manage to sort something out with the holiday - I'm keeping my fingers crossed for today's apptment. I went and had a look at the US board as well and was really glad to see that you're getting such good advice over there.

Flossy - ditto Stacey's thoughts on not being put off. We're both just weird oddities (sorry Stacey  )


----------



## laird

Hi,

Ha! No apologies needed, we are definitely folliclely challenged. I too have about 7 over 10mm and have had since about day 10 so i'm a high risk for overstimming.

Yes it's great having the support from you and the US girls during the treatment, there is nothing like the support of people who understand.

Today's appointment, well we are 'plodding along' as the nurse said!  One on the right seems to have grown at 14 and one on the left is over 14mm so they take 2 measurements - 17mm and 12mm which they average out. I don't really understand it but that meant 14.5mm!  My lining is 7mm and e2 is 650..... eek, come on body co-operate with me!

The nurses/sonographers are lovely and trying to help. They have got me in at 9am tomorrow and my flight is 11am (checked in online) if we cant make it, it is cheaper to just rebook with another airline when we know when the darn things are going to grow!  I have my sister as getaway driver if by some chance I have anything at 17mm tomorrow!

My uncle is still hanging in there and my aunt is refusing to leave him even go to the toilet....

I copy and paste the stuff I think will be helpful and send it to my DH, he says there should be something like this for HA men!  Thanks for what you say about 'putting it in the bin' I LOVE that!

Have a good weekend xx


----------



## rjmett

Evening  

I hope you don't mind me posting as you seem like a lovely small group of ladies who are very close and supportive of each other.

I was looking for a thread like this a year or so ago but there didn't seem to be anyone in the same boat as me at the time.

I'm no doctor but 99.9% certain I have HA due to a difficult battle with anorexia for the last few years. I lost a third of my body weight in total and although I wasn't super skinny as a lot of anorexic people are, it was still low enough to cause damage. I came off the pill as we wanted to ttc but no period followed. In fact I haven't had a period for a good 5 years now and the ones I did have prior to that were fake due to the pill. I was refered to a gynae at the hospital when my period failed to show and eventually ended up with a cycle of IVF last year. What I could never understand was why they wouldn't try to find out what the problem was, they just went straight to IVF which was, in their eyes, a cure.

I can completely relate to everything that has been said, especially with reference to the eating. Its still an issue for me in the sense that I do now eat more but suffer the anxieties that go with the extra calories and weight gain.

I just wanted to pop on and say hi really and that I'm really glad to find some likeminded people with similar issues to myself. You can tell me to butt out if u like  

Becca x


----------



## Patches

Stacey - it sounds as though you're starting to get somewhere!!! I assume you've either gone on holiday or got to the trigger successfully by now?! Let us know whenever you can!

Becca - welcome   It's really good to have new people - and especially what looks like a success story! Did you have more than one IVF cycle, or did you go straight to ICSI on that one? It would be great to hear how your experiences were if you can bear to go over the details again! I can completely relate to doctors going straight to drugs rather than trying to work out what's wrong - in fact that's the thing I found most upsetting before I found there was such a thing as HA. I don't know if it's because they see so many people who have an actual medical problem whereas we're healthy in all the ways they can measure, or whether they feel that diet isn't something they want to engage with. I was told many times that my weight wasn't a concern (and the one doctor who did say it was the sole problem was so mean about it that it completely stressed me out). How are you finding the pregnancy? Is it easier to deal with food issues?

Sorry for all the questions but I'm really glad you found us, and please let us know how everything goes for you   

Flossy - hope you're doing well too


----------



## rjmett

Thankyou for the warm welcome   and of course i dont mind sharing my experiences.

It was our first attempt at any kind of medical intervention for fertility issues. They decided to go straight to ICSI due to sperm issues, however on the day the sperm had massively improved so we had half IVF & half ICSI  
Nobody ever suggested that my weight was the issue. I brought it up with the fertility nurse and she said sometimes the hypothalamus might just switch off when weight is low and it may take a while to turn back on. It's the only mention i ever got and that wasn't even from a doctor! I had probably maintained my BMI at 21-22 for a year prior to treatment and still no period. I   they come back after this pg, maybe things will have been kick started? Only time will tell.
The food issues are still there, i feel like they always will be. However somthing else has taken over and i just have to eat eat eat   My weight gain is always on my mind but now i'm nearing the end of the pg and will soon have the one thing we've dreamed of for years, it's becomming less and less important. I've gained just under 2.5 stones so far. If i continue with the 1lb a week until delivery then i will have gained 3st over all. It's a lot more than i'm comfortable with but at least the baby is healthy. I've already started thinking about how to loose it once the baby is here but i guess that's the eating disorder talking again! I think i will be closely monitored afterwards (by my DH and family!) to makes sure i dont slip back into old habbits.

I'm so glad i've found this thread  

Hello to everyone  and good luck with whatever stage you're at  

Becca x x


----------



## Flossy_5

Hi Becca and welcome. It is good to hear a success story, thank you for sharing. 

It's a shame neither of you were given good advice about your weight initially. Was this at GP level or even the consultants too? My GP referred me after 6 months post pill ammenhorrea (didn't mention my weight). My first appointment was with the registrar who did the screening. He didn't say much but said try and get the BMI up. When I saw the consultant he said straight away that was the problem (along with stress and exercise). He's had to slow me down and said I should try and fix it myself by getting my weight up before thinking about drugs. I am a bit cynical and think its probably about money, although in fairness I know this would be better. 

I have to say I am put off the injectables - but not particularly your experiences Satceys (although hopefully you will be on hol and not reading this yet). More that if I have to do them I have no idea how I will fit it with work. I work 30 miles away and employers are not legally obliged to let you have time off for fertility treatment - that and I don't think i would want them to know anyway. I really hope they will let me try clomid if i don't get back to normal myself. 

How's things gong anyhow Patches? What cd you on now?


----------



## Patches

Becca - I think it's really good you're aware of not slipping back after the baby's born. I know that there are people on the USA fertilethoughts HA threads who had problems with low birth weight babies and stress after the birth because they hadn't really dealt with it all. I think if it were me that I'd *try* to deal with losing weight gradually afterwards so that my body didn't think it was being starved again. I'm sure I've read that HA ladies often do take a while to ov again after a birth but it's very likely you'll get there in my humble opinion!

Flossy - it was even some of the consultants who said my weight wasn't a problem. To be fair, they all said it couldn't hurt to gain a bit, but since my BMI was 18 by the time I was referred there they didn't see it as a cause for alarm. I think if you don't obviously have a current eating disorder they go straight to drugs, since that's what women with underlying problems like PCOS have. I'd be interested to know the breakdown of cases they see, and how many are HA.

I sympathise about juggling drugs and work. My clinic's not as far as yours but it's a 45 minute care journey away, and my work is 50 miles in the other direction. Fortunately I work at home a lot so I always scheduled appointments on those days and worked later to make up for it. It also meant that I didn't need to tell anyone at work - though if you did I really hope they'd be supportive. I'm sure my mum told me that you are entitled to have time off for IVF - but let's hope you don't need that! You may find they want to scan you regularly on clomid too (they should) but I found that less stressful because you weren't being reminded of treatment every day the way you are with injections.

AFM - I'm on about day 32 or something and not much going on at all. I alternately worry I've lost weight and then worry I've gained some! I'm trying to stay calm about it all this time since it did eventually happen every other time I worried. I'm definitely assuming it will be another 60-day-er though - hopefully that will stop me stressing so much over the next few weeks. Still, it would be nice to get a bit of a sign of something happening...

Happy Easter everyone by the way - hope there's some good baking going on! I'm planning apple and toffee sauce muffins to take to the in laws at the weekend (new baby - meh!)


----------



## rjmett

Thanks Patches - i do hope that 'normal service' might just be resumed after the baby arrives but i'm not so sure. We know there's no risk of having a low birth weight baby as he was on the 95th percentile for every measurement at the last scan so we'll have to see how he's doing at the next. My DH doesn't think i have any weight to loose after the birth. It messes my head up a little as i feel like i do but then i don't trust my own judgement anymore on what is and is not normal. He suggests i just go with the flow and let my weight adjust accordingly but that is never an option for me, just wish it was and wasn't always on my mind. Have you ever had any support with your eating and weight?

Flossy i agree it's difficult juggling fertility tx with work. I'm a teacher at a very busy secondary school so arranging appointments etc was a challenge. Luckily my school supported me in my treatment so time off wasn't an issue. I had a doctors note when i needed a long period of time off after my egg collection. You say that your employers are not obliged to allow time off for IVF, have you researched that yourself? Unfortinately ivf is becomming quite common these days and a lot of workplaces have a policy regarding it. For example i know if you work for the NHS you're entitled to time off paid. I guess everywhere is different.

Becca x x


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## laird

Hi Becca, welcome!
My experience was different in that straight away I was told I had HA and then didnt get any treatment at all for a year, I think he was hoping the extra weight would sort everything out.

I am in Majorca having made the flight by ten minutes. Only one follicle on sat morning but at 16.5mm and lining at 6mm they felt it was good enough to give me another day of menopur and then take the trigger on the sun night, I bought a few cans of ice cold coke to keep the stuff cold (it was supposed to be kept in the fridge) and then put in on the fridge on the flight.

My ovaries were feeling big and sore the last few days but feel fine now, no symptoms of anything though. Will write more soon.
xx


----------



## Patches

Hi Stacey! It's so sweet of you to check in from holiday and let us know how you're getting on  I've been thinking of you lots and I'm so glad you got to the end of the cycle before leaving. I really hope you're having a nice time away and are able to put all that stress nearer to the back of your mind.

It sounds as though you're being really careful about how you think about weight post baby, Becca, which is great (and I'm really glad the baby is growing so nicely  ). I can only imagine how I'd feel which I'm sure would be 'aaargh' and stressy, but I'm hoping (if it ever happens!) that I'd be able to separate that out from what my body needed for a bit. I remember one of my sister's friends saying it took nine months to lose the weight and I think that trying to lose it too soon is a bad idea, esp if you're breast-feeding. When I had to gain weight I hated the idea that people might notice and comment but in fact no one did, and I can only hope that no one would be so mean if you'd just had a baby too. I did eventually see a dietician but only after pushing quite heavily as I felt that I wasn't managing to get anywhere on my own. However they weren't very senstive and just wanted to refer me to an eating disorders clinic although I kept saying that I'd managed to put on weight and had a BMI of 18.5 by then. I wanted to know whether I should add particular types of food and they just told me to eat calories - cakes, biscuits, anything. So I didn't feel it was particularly helpful - although the calories advice keeps me a bit saner now when I worry that I'm not keeping up the right fats.

Not much from me- just the occasional twinge still and I'm beginning to worry a little. I'm more than 5 weeks into this cycle now and I'm sure I was getting more than this the last two times. Still, trying to stay zen, as I promised!

Hi Flossy - hope you're having a good Easter! I'm pleased to report that my apple cake was a great success, by the way


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## laird

Hi Patches, thanks for thinking of me!  Yes we had a great time aside from DH worrying about timings and stuff, it does kill the mood a little for both of us to say the least.  It's amazing how many kids there are on holiday at this time of year though, everyone seemed to have at least 3 but maybe that was my imagination.

Sorry you arent having any signs yet but one day you arent having any and the next you are so hopefully the next time you come on here you will be saying you are..... its so frustrating for you, I'm mighty impressed with your patience.

AFM i still dont have any symptoms of anything, its pretty stressful though thinking I may have AF every time I go to the loo (about every 5 minutes) last time I had really sensitive boobs around this time, this time nothing. Im hoping to get my progesterone levels today (I went sunday for those) as until I hear otherwise Im partly thinking I may not even have ovulated.  Thats the horrible thing about this treatment, you can put all that effort in and not even lay the flippin egg.

By the way, my eating whatever i fancy still seems not to cause me any problems. We had a great bakery round the corner from of us on holiday and I had a huge piece of cheesecake/cherry pie every day (and only did walking no other exercise which is killing me, especially as DH has just joined the gym and for the first time ever im not going to do so) I dont look my bikini-best certainly,  but i wont be applying for the Biggest loser just yet.
xx


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## laird

Hi,

Just got my progesterone results. I supposedly ovulated on Tuesday morning and my progesterone on sunday was 46, thats pretty good i think.  im pleased about that as I was worried because I havent had any symptoms that I hadnt even laid it.  xx


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## Patches

Great news Stacey!!! When is test day?

Glad to hear you had such a good time away, and also that the eating isn't proving too stressful. I still beat myself up over it but my weight doesn't really seem to move much either. Was the timed BMS ok this time (sorry if that's asking for TMI!)

Thank you for the nice words about me. Still only the odd twinge. Sigh. Still, better than nothing I suppose!


----------



## Flossy_5

Hey there,
Staceys, yey about the prog. I'm so pleased that you completed the cycle, what a marathon that was! I hope there was no need for the turkey baster   but I can only imagine how difficult it is to dtd under such pressure. We had a bit of a disasterous incident at the weekend, so goodness knows how it will be when things get serious.

Patches - I know how you feel about the weight / diet bit still being so difficult. I have sort of stabilised (still going up a bit) but I feel like my worst fear of not being able to stop eating / putting on weight is happening. I was watching supersize vs superskinny last night and could so relate to the girl on there who was obsessive about weighing food and cutting out the saturated fat. 

afm - just getting frustrated with all these false starts. I feel like the guns firing but I never get off the blocks. I think my e2 must have picked up, but perhaps the LH is still just too low.


----------



## laird

Hi guys,

No theres no such thing as TMI as far as this lark goes.  It was mega stressful and so we had back up baster.  Yes we used it, no it wasnt too bad, we got into a routine with it as a 'top up'.  It actually felt good to feel like we were maximising every opportunity because there was no way either of us could have coped with twice daily marathon sessions with a non-responsive member....

By the way I think someone asked me recently about IVF in my area. Yes its continuing for the forseeable. we are entitled to 1 attempt and then as many with frozen eggs as they get embryos. Think thats right. What do you guys get?

Patches; hope those twinges develop into something more soon, remember they did the other times...

flossy:  I watched that too and my DH said 'I know someone who weighs their cereal'.... i did correct him that I have TWICE that amount but yes I saw similarities though i have always been slim though. I know what you mean about all the false starts. I have been experiencing what I think is good CM for ages and to be fair my e2 has been well in the normal range for ages (122) but I still did not get a withdrawal bleed on provera a few months ago. I guess you may be having some kind of follicular stage like me but they dont get beyond a certain level.  Eveyone is different though and one day you arent having symptoms and the next you are it just takes time and I understand not being too comfortable with that!

AFM well I have started to feel more sensitive in the breat department but im not sure whether that is just because i am totally fixated on them!  I dont know when to test, I dont want to test too early. i took the trigger Sunday night so I was working on ovulation on Tuesday morning so today would be day 9 after ovulation, thinking of testing Monday, what do you think?  I dont want to think about it too much because I only got to day 11 last time anyway!

Have to ask, where do you stand on the Royal Wedding? I wasnt planning to watch it but im getting sucked in!


----------



## Flossy_5

Oh your stories are hilarious, always has me in stitches. Well I'm glad it seems to be helping your DH feel a bit more relaxed about it. 

I've always been slim too, so i don't know where this fear came from. I think it must be after I lost the fat I did have on my saddlebags and bum and not wanting them back (and then with the possibility of even more piled on top which seems unbearable to me).  I was nearly freaking out this morning as I ran out of porridge and had to have Frosties instead, this is depsite the fact I have been eating even more high fat crap than usual for the last week. Bank holiday was just a food fest. 

On the question of IVF, we are eligible for one funded cycle and that's it.

I have to say I'm not being very patriotic about the wedding, I've just been more excited to have an extra day off. I don't think I will be watching the wedding, maybe the highlights. However, like you I am getting more intrigued cos I heard them talking about it on the radi, saying how sweet some interview was.


----------



## rjmett

Is it IUI that you're having stacey or have I misunderstood?

You're entitled to 3 IVF attempts in my area on the nhs but if you get lucky then you loose your entitlement, which I think is only fair. Then more people can have a go at achieving their dream  

I love supersize/superskinnny and this weeks really hit a nerve. I was very much like the super skinny at the height of my problems but I was diagnosed. DH commented on the cereal measuring too. I was a porridge girl in those days, 28g to be precise. It always astounds me how people with similar eating issues to me would have exactly the same habits despite never meeting me. It goes to show how 'common' it is doesn't it  

As for the wedding well... I might flick it on to see what's happening but am not planning on watching it. Am hoping the shops will be quieter so I can do some shopping to be honest!

Becca x x


----------



## laird

Hi guys,

Just a quick one from me (I dont have internet at home, im a real techno phobe) so Im just in the library. Got AF at 10DPO. Gutted.  (no sperm probs so we dont get IUI)  Consultant doesnt want to see me un til the end of May. Thinking about trying IVF, my local CARE centre does it free if you donate eggs. We can afford it anyway but the thought of being paid to do indirectly to do something good for someone else is weighing on my mind.  anyone know anything about egg donation?  

Also thinking about going it alone and taking my clomid I was prescribed a year ago. I know my consulatant wouldnt support me with it and would say there is no point.... any thoughts?

Oh and flossy you sound exactlly like me figure-wise. I couldnt believe I had legs I wanted to show off when I was 8 stone (the rest of me was a bag of rags) but at 10 stone 3... hmm not so much!
xx


----------



## Flossy_5

Oh Stacey's that's such a bummer, especially after such a journey. Do you think they will let you try the last round of Menopur? If I were you I would be seriously tempted to be a rebel and take the Clomid. I know the docs would probably be horrified but desperate times... How much have you got and how much were you advised to take at the time? Personally when you see him I would still try and persuade him to let you do the Clomid EP.
It seems like lots of ppl have been prescribed HA by their GP (granted maybe not HA girls) but mine seemingly had no intention of giving me anything. He took one look at my bloods, calculated my BMI which was just inside the healthy range by this point and said he had no idea why I wasn't ovulatng and referred me on. Humph. 

As for IVF, I would be tempted by the reduced costs too. Even though we could just afford it, I would think thats £3000 + I could be spending on baby stuff. However, I would want to know more about whether that means you would get to keep less eggs for potential future use and how many they give away. Also, you should bear in mind that your identity is no longer kept strictly anonymous for life. You might want to find out how much info might be given out and when. I do think egg sharing is a great idea, but its also a big decision in terms of a bit of your genetics being somewhere out there.


----------



## Flossy_5

Satcey's, I've just noticed that there is an egg share thread on this site under further support on the main homepage. If you haven't seen it already, there's loads of info on there about the whole process and more.


----------



## Patches

Oh Stacey I am sorry   I know it's no consolation but at least you know you gave it your best shot, and you did have a strong ovulation so there shouldn't be any reason it won't work eventually. When I was first prescribed clomid I was given no tracking apart from 21 day progesterone test (which would have been far too early for me too). I'm also thinking of just taking it and monitoring temps and ov predictor kits - the only danger (as far as I know!) would be of over-stimming and not knowing, but that seems unlikely on 50mg (I wouldn't go higher than that).

Becca's right that there is loads of info on egg sharing on here - I wouldn't do it personally because of the lack of anonymity - my dp would freak out about that - but it's certainly a way of helping someone else too (do you find out if it worked for them though -it would kill me to know they'd got a pregnancy and I hadn't).

Totally sympathise on anxiety about gaining too much and on weighing cereal! I'm finally starting to panic less when I have to eat something I don't want to (as a one-off at least!) - although it still makes me worry I'm giving up and will be huge in two weeks' time. I think they make you lay rationality at the door when you enter the HA house!

Must go - I'm making us late for an excursion but I really hope you're feeling ok, Stacey xxx


----------



## rjmett

Hi ladies

Stacy sorry AF arrived  It feels strange saying that as for me, AF was all i ever wanted! But obviously not at the moment. The Egg Share bit is here if you want to have a look:
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=15.0
I was considering it as they were almost going to deny my entitlement to IVF due to having a smaller than average uterus.

With respect to the eating i think i have learnt a very valuable lesson since gaining some weight and changing my eating. I used to have an irrational fear that eating something 'new' or outside of my eating 'schedule' i would gain vast amounts of weight. I have learnt now that isn't true and i can actually eat more than i used to without really making much difference. For me, gaining weight was the cure in a way  I'd spent so much time with this fear of being 9st, 10st etc... but once i reached these weights it wasn't bad at all. I know it is different with me being pg but i know i have gained more than just the baby weight and even though i have some bad moments, it is all ok. It has to be 

Hope you're all enjoying another sunny bank holiday 

Becca x


----------



## laird

Hi guys,

Thanks all of you for your help. I am now known as 'Laird', dont ask me why, I dont want to have to kill you..... (ok Im just being paranoid....)

I was originally given 50mg clomid to take for two cycles. I think they will want me to do another cycle of menopur but TBH neither myself or DH are very keen. There was talk of doing a 'step down' cycle rather than going up a dose bit by bit, so that could be a possibility.

I have gone down to 50mg of clomid, Im a bit scared of not being monitored (having a cyst or something left over from the menopur),  how does it work with ovulation testing then, my notes say that you are supposed to ovulate 5-10 days after the last tablet..... is that not the case in reality? (I thought you either ovulated then or not at all) 

Flossy: I have been wondering for a while about the 'incident' with DH, care to share or is that a step too far (Just because I have no dignity left I understand that others may!)

I am mulling everything over and planning to chase my doctor tomorrow to do the HSG (I still have never had one of these and I dont want to wait until the appointment on the 23rd just to be told thats what I need prior to any other treatment) I take all your comments about egg share on board. The next step is for me to phone around a few clinics anyway, it seems that the waiting time for IVF here is the same whether you are private or not. I want to try and find one that has a shorter waiting time, although I dont know if they will see me while I am already supposedly having NHS treatment)

I am having a pity party today. DH has joined a really nice gym and instead of using it with him I am sat here on the internet. I really want to but I cant see how me taking up exercise again would be a good thing.

Any more signs Patches? when is your next consultation? and you flossy (by the way where do you live?) I am in the east midlands and my IVF would be through Care Nottingham, the waiting list is 6 weeks just for a private consultation!


----------



## Flossy_5

I didn't read the first part of your post properly and I was thinking what a strange first post intro, especially asking about the incident  Makes sense now, I am a bit paranoid too so I'm all for the code name. I think I'd be mortified if someone I potentially knew read this. So anyway, no dignity at all.... The incident was another of a now regular occurance of getting fooled by my body's false starts. I was getting hopeful again thinking maybe I actually ov'd this time, after all the first one has to come somewhen. So me and DP tried to dtd, but it certainly lacked romance. More like I don't care if its painful just go for it. But then I couldn't, then he couldn't so we both ended up in a huff and didn't talk to one another for the next hour.

So from what I've read about Clomid, I believe you don't necessarily ov at the normal time, I think girls with HA tend to be a bit later in the cycle, so you might need to keep going with the OPK's and temping a bit longer. I'm not sure what would happen if you did have a cyst. But I think the risk of overstimming hopefully isn't too bad unmonitored because it just tries to trick the ovaries into working of their own accord rather than injecting the hormones to directly get everything going. 

I forgot you hadn't had the HSG yet, I am surprised they went for treatment without it. It would be worth getting it done for peace of mind but the waiting lists are normally quite long - in my area I think it was approx 4-6 weeks. Do bear in mind they absolutely won't do it without you having no sex since your last bleed, which was quite amusing for me when I told them that 9 months was a bit long, even for us!! So it would delay your treatment, but it might be better to know one way or another. 

Sorry your feeling down today, not surprising though and we're all entitled to those. I think you made the right decision about not hitting the gym as this prob wouldn't help. Having said that, something light and for short periods is still ok. x


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## Patches

Hi Laird - welcome, but what have you done with Stacey   I changed my user name early on as well as I was worried about being recognised! It's easy to forget that this is public when there's a nice little group posting!

I think we've established that this is exactly the place to come if you need a pity party so don't worry at all about venting   I sympathise about the menopur being very stressful but having successfully got to the end twice are you sure you don't want to try again? I gave up because I wasn't responding well, but once you've triggered you're in the same position as a 'regular' couple - ie it could easily  take five, six, seven cycles to actually get pg. Just a though anyway - only you and your hubby know how stressful it is for you.

As to the clomid, when I was just having bloodwork they assumed an ov at about 14 days. But on my first try at 100mg I did get positive opks but no ovulation at day 21 (the standard day for bloodwork) so I wondered if it happened later. On my regular cycles I have established that I ov very late so it's entirely possible that that happens on clomid cycles too. It's a shame your clinic won't give you IUI as that would start you on clomid but then give you a  boost of menopur as well. Perhaps you could ask your doctor if they'd let you try that but without the actual IUI?

Would it help you to go to the gym but just walk on the treadmill, or do stretches, or yoga or something? I've never actually stopped exercising (though I never did it particularly hard!) since I was pretty sure that it was diet for me that was the issue. But I don't want to put the cat among the pigeons and I think you're definitely right to avoid hard-core exercise. I just bought a ballet workout dvd for some variety - haven't tried it yet but it looks good (and more hard stretches than heart-rate)

Sorry about your stressful incident, Flossy. It's sad we have to think so instrumentally about all this, isn't it? But hopefully in a few years it will be a distant memory and we'll be feeling awkward about doing the deed because we're knackered from baby-rearing instead   Did you say you do have another appointment booked in? I still think it's really encouraging that you're getting cm and that the doc thought you had such a good chance of getting there on your own. But I imagine it must be stressful - I hope you're doing ok.

It sounds as though you've made massive strides about the eating, Becca. I agree completely about giving up on particular numbers and rules. Our bodies seem to do better when we're able to divorce from all that a bit. And you're absolutely right that you can't worry about it now because the baby needs you to be well nourished and as relaxed as you can be . Plus eating new things makes eating more fun and sociable!

xx


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## laird

LOL Stacey kept being naughty and not doing as she was told....

Thanks for your help, Im waiting to hear about the hysty scan today. I take all your help about the clomid and ovulation, I guess i'll need to re-mortgage the house for the ovulation strips... when you used the clomid Patches did you use OPKs every few days 5 days after taking the last tablet?  I have had no side effects apart from some light bleeding (like my period came back a tiny bit) but that seems to be one of the mentioned side effects.

patches: thanks for your comments about the 3rd menopur cycle. I think as that is the protocol we will have to do another one and then they refer for IVF, everyone has said I would be a better candidate for that because as soon as I start responding I start responding with at least 5 follicles...

I don't know if I could go to the gym and not do a full workout, I think I would feel worse. Its hard to explain but I think I would feel a failure, reminded of what I would like to be doing but can't. At the moment I just do free weights at home (30 mins x 3 a week) and with that I feel like its a choice and saving me money! 

Patches: did you have a nice excursion?....

Flossy: I dont think its odd being a bit paranoid, I'm just not used to using chatrooms at all and hadnt really thought about the consequences. I feel like everyone I have ever met knows what im going through anyway and boy am I regretting telling them!  It felt like this would all 'be sorted' quickly when I was first diagnosed, i didnt realise i would be still having to talk about it nearly two years later!

I have done a bit of research about private IVF, I cant believe there are 3 months waiting lists when you are paying...I guess i have to wait and have my 3rd menopur cycle. I am not good at waiting, had you noticed that?!

Becca:thanks for your help. Gosh Im glad they didnt deny your NHS entitlement  x


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## rjmett

I think it depends on where you go for treatment privately as there is no waiting time at any of my local clinics and no waiting times at any of the clinics that the ladies go to on the boards I help out with. I think the more popular clinics with the high reputations probably do have a waiting time but that's a good sign isn't it


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## laird

Hi,
Yes the one place I have found which doesnt have a waiting list has below average statistics (I know stats are not all that useful but still)

I have just had an acupuncture session, was passing a Chinese Medicine place and thought I would pop in and while I was there thought I may as well..... was a bit weird.  I had to take off outer clothes which I wasnt 100% comfortable with, but still.... whilst I was lying there waiting for him to come in I was looking at a diagram of the Meridian Points and one is situated right next to one's rectum!  I was thinking, if he suggests I bring my knees up Im outta here....

Anyway he didnt and it was fine.  I said I would think about how often I am going to go because its so expensive! £55 for first session and £30 thereafter and they suggest you need to go weekly (they would wouldnt they!) 

xxx


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## rjmett

that made me giggle!

I had accupuncture for a few months whilst on clomid to try and help with my lack of cycle. It didn't really work out for me but i know it does for a lot of ladies ttc. I found it very relaxing though  
And she did suggest i went weekly, it was the same price. They must made a fortune! If i was on £30 an hour i'd be very rich! 

x


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## laird

Hi,

I have posted my blood results on FT because I am still worried about the comment from the Community Gynaecologist about my diagnosis being wrong. I am seeing her again on Monday (straight after my uncle's funeral... but she only works mondays so i couldnt fit it in otherwise) and I just wanted to be clear.  What are your guys blood results?  In 12/09 mine were LH 3, FSH 7, e2 122.    03/10: FSH 6.8; LH 3, e2 less than 50 and 12/10 FSH 7.3, LH 7.9, e2 122.

So they keep saying they have gone up but not really my e2 was the same when I started.  The girls on the forum are saying their results are much lower for FSH/LH....  The gynaecologist said if I had HA my results would be much lower for LH/FSH because the hypothalamus would be nonfunctional.

I identify with a lot of the attributes of the HA girls but honestly if I havent got HA I cant see why I have to be a size 12/14 why cant I be back to a size 10?!

Patches: any more twinges yet, I keep wondering if you have cracked opened a new packet of ovulation strips yet... xx


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## Patches

Good morning   

In answer to your question, Stacey (can we still call you that here?) I think I did use the strips every night after about day 14. When I've used them for natural cycles I've sometimes done every other day but there is a danger of missing a surge doing that. I got mine from an ebay seller and they were pretty cheap. I've used two different ones - they're just strips you dip in a pot of pee rather than posh things you pee on, but they seem to be accurate.

My very first bloods didn't cover everything but my FSH was 4.4 (this at a BMI of about 17.4!). I kept being told everything was normal but didn't actually see any E2 or other numbers. More recently (but still pre-natural cycles) my FSH was 8, LH 5 and oestrogen 80. And in November last year (just after first natural cycle) they were e2 125, LH 9, FSH 9. Immediately after my first natural ov one of my numbers was through the floor but it climbed back up again. So not too dissimilar from yours, Stacey, and my doc still agreed it was HA. I would definitely ask again though - as you say, it's better to know if it could be something else.

But please do take heart from the fact that you do respond to the menopur - I know it must be really discouraging not to be ovulating on your own after gaining weight, but there is something good there, and maybe that wouldn't have happened a few months ago. I've got my fingers crossed for you for the clomid though, and as you say, having a tendency to grow a lot of follies bodes well for IVF if you do go down that route. Please don't go back to a size 10 just yet though!!

I tried acupuncture last year as well - it was nice but I didn't really feel it helped (plus I agree on the expense!). I've actually been thinking of trying it again but haven't got round to doing anything about it yet! I'm not really an alternative therapies type of girl but there does seem to be a lot more evidence supporting it than other things.

AFM - no opks yet - I don't think I'm close enough yet. I did start temping but then woke up stupidly early the last two mornings so didn't bother. Wouldn't it be stupid to miss it after all this waiting because I hadn't had as many aches and pains as last time?! My excursion was a lot of fun though, and a nice way to end the bank holidays. It's a bit of a shock being back at work all week!


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## laird

Hi there,

I am so paranoid.... feels a bit weird to stop using my name, maybe just call me S!!!!    taking temperature sounds like a real pain in the behind and I think it would make me feel a bit mad, it already feels all encompassing, of course if i was in your situation i would be doing it.  I keep waking up early too, the hayfever season has started for me.

I bought test strips from wilkos (5 for £2.50 i think) how does that compare?

Thanks Patches for your sharing your results and all your support. We seem mighty similar and that makes me feel better because you are obviously a kind, intelligent, thoughtful person and you got your AF back! (anyone who goes on excursions is good in my book!   i havent heard anyone say 'excursion' in ages and it makes me intrigued as to what you were up to....

my situation gets more complicated because I am on day 5 of clomid today (started on day 3) and they have just phoned to say to come in for my HSG next Weds.  I cant really say no, they cant fit me in any sooner and later wont necessaily be any more helpful. I am hoping that the clomid works (but 99% sure it wont) and if so i ovulate late so that we can BMS after the HSG.  What do you think?  My nurse told me that me taking clomid was like taking aspirin anyway (ie pointless) xx


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## Flossy_5

Hi Laird, My results are in my signature bit at the bottom and quite classic HA I believe. However, I don't think you should read too far into what the nurse said, particularly as results do still vary and you are only ever taking a snapshot in time. 

I've read that in HA your FSH is usually normal to low - if it was high it might indicate ovarian failure. Yours is not really low, but still prefectly normal for your age. It is the e2 and LH numbers which are perhaps more significant. 
- Your e2, even at 122 still looks to be in the low range which is classic HA. The reference range on my printout is 73-172 abnormal (well it says post-menopausal but we know that's not the case from the FSH). 
- The LH reference range is 2.1 -10.9 for pre-puberty levels and 1.2 - 12.9 for mid-cycle levels. Therefore either way at 3, although not super dooper low, it is in the low range. It may be slightly higher now as things have started picking up a bit. 

If you were thinking about PCOS, one indicator is often a high LH to FSH ratio. Since your LH is still lower than your FSH I wouldn't say this is the case. Also, no bleed after Provera, again classic HA. I can't remember off hand, did you have your thyroid and prolactin levels checked? High prolactin can indicate a pituatary tumour (not as scary as it sounds) and thyroid levels can interefere with menstruation. I'd better just add to anyone else reading, these are my interpretations and I'm not a medical professional.


I bought 25 high sensitivty OPK's for £3.79 from Home Health. Google one step OPK's, they seem to be quite common and cheap. 

On the HSG, my only concern is that you may have dtd since your last bleed. They were adamant they would't do it in that case because if there was ovulation and a sperm got in, squirting dye through your tubes could cause ectopic pregnancy. At first I was booked in without a bleed and when they phoned up to change my app and then realised I hadn't had a period, they made me go in, get provera and re-book. Maybe they aren't so over precautious in your area, but rather than risk your health it may be an idea at least to check with a nurse (and not just the person booking) whether you can go through with it even if you've had intercourse since last AF (if you haven't then this shouldn't be an issue anyway). 

And I don't think I realised about your uncle, sorry to hear that although it sounds like he is in a better place now. How's your aunt doing?


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## Flossy_5

Forgot to say, Patches you asked about my next appointment, which is not for another 6 and a half weeks. Can't see anything miraculous happening before this time though. I am a bit worried that he wanted me to get up to a BMI of 22 at least, which I haven't done and don't really intend to either. I feel like I'm eating loads every day so there is in my view enough expendable energy there. Fingers crossed I won't be told that I can't have treatment on this basis. I do also have a review appointment with the gastro consultant next week where I will get my DEXA results, I imagine they will be very impressed with my weight gain and I'm not anticipating bone density problems, since I was told they would phone if there was anything serious. 

I'm wondering more about the role of stress, I am quite an anxious person and some days I live with my heart in my mouth worrying about my job, the amount of things I still haven't done by the end of the day. I think I manage it much better nowadays, but at the time when I came off the pill my stress levels were sky high and there were days when I worked myself up into a real frenzy. It makes me wonder how long the effects of this may remain. Another thing I was thinking is that I really should get better at remembering to take a daily vitamin tablet, plus extra Vit D anmd Zinc, since there seems to be a lot of literature about these two. I was reading yesterday that Zinc can help increase Leptin levels, which seems to be low in people with HA. Do you guys bother with regular vits??

Well, if all else fails I think I will re-train as a fertility specialist.....


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## laird

Hi Flossy,

I know what you mean about being a fertility specialist!  I also know what you mean about stress and its hard knowing what to do for the best. I did have a stressful job but I left and went travelling and now I hardly work and when i do it is not stressful at all but still I am stressed about having no periods!  When I first came off the pill I fully expected to get a bleed and even 6/8 months later I was optimistically doing pregnancy tests so its not like i was thinking negatively.  So the upshot is that I just dont know what to suggest, you are doing everything in your power of that im sure, and knowledge is power and all that, but everyone is different and you may get your periods back any day now (certainly some of the girls on the FT site seem to get their periods back and some dont seem to have made all that many lifestyle changes) I guess I think of it like puberty, one day you didnt have periods and the next day you do.... thinking about it like that helps me because I think just because it hasnt happened yet doesnt mean it wont.

Thanks for your advice. I have DTD since AF BUT there is no way on earth i will have ovulated within a week or two of my period so I didnt think the scan would be a problem.  I hope its not a problem i dont really want to change it now i know im going.  Hmmm.

As for the vitamins i do take a well woman vitamin from tesco every day (i have started since the injections) it has the right amounts of all the b vitamins, zinc etc etc. Its in a silver box with a yellow stripe and reasonably priced.

As for the other tests to rule things out that arent HA ive had all of them (including an MRI) and all clear and normal.

Thanks for asking about my aunt, shes not good at all. i feel a bit guilty that im not there more, i know she is feeling lonely. she lives surrounded by lots of other old dears but she never really made an effort with them before. She keeps saying she wants to die, not much i can say to that sadly.

Oh and I know what you mean about not wanting to keep putting on weight, i weighed myself yesterday at tesco and it said my body fat was 25%!! (it used to be around 14) now im hoping thats not correct (they are often wrong those machines) LOL xx


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## Patches

Hi ladies!

Sorry I haven't posted in a few days but I just came over to take a look and wanted to say that 25% body fat sounds scary but it's actually totally normal and necessary. The recommended minimum amount for fertility is 22% I think, so please don't panic!

I'm really sorry to hear you feel so stressed about things Flossy. It seems to be a classic HA personality type trait but I know how impossible it is not to stress about this on top of other things. I somehow managed to escape job stress - I think I did use to have a naturally stressy personality type but my job is one where you really only weigh up your achievements against yourself rather than others, and I think that helped. If it's any consolation I felt just the same about all this (S's characterisation of it being like puberty and waiting for your first period is absolutely spot on!), and having now had that sign that things work I do feel much less stressed. I'm still feeling a little anxious about what's going on this time (I'm now past 7 weeks and the last two o's have been at 9 so it's not too alarming yet) but MUCH more chilled than before.

Sorry for the quickie - in the middle of work! 

xx


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## laird

Hi Patches,

I really identify with what you say about having the type of job where you don't really compare yourself to others, that has really resonated with me. I used to work as a project manager running a counselling scheme for young people and i loved the work with the clients but i never felt like i was good enough, i cared too much about criticism and i had a terrible boss (who i ended up having to comlain about and she got the sack because of a few different misdemeanours) which has affected my confidence ever since. I now suffer slightly from a lack of identity because i am not a mother yet i dont work full time in a 'proper job'.  on so many levels I cant complain about this but deep down it does bother me (never happy eh!)

I'm glad you are feeling chilled about it, thats definitely going to help things.

I have signed up for 10 sessions of acupuncture (£350) ouch. I am still having convulsions about this because i never spend any money (i hate spending money on anything really apart from travelling and food!) they did a mixture of acupuncture and acupressure focusing on my midsection and back. it felt nice and I certainly could feel the blood flow to the area.

Right off to a funeral and then meeting the community gynaecologist who told me that my consultant is useless . I want to know whether she told him that I had asked for a second opinion (in fact i didnt ask for one, she TOLD me i should get one because she didnt like him and now hes being really rude to me) i want to know if i switch to a different area, will this set things back?

Cheers for the support about the body fat, i wonder if i will be able to swim better now? I was always rubbish before, maybe the extra fat would help me float? xx


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## laird

Hi girls,

Well my community Gynaecologist has just told me that in her opinion I have 'ovarian insensitivity' have you heard of this? she says its rare (I cannot even find anything on google) she thinks I should be on HRT and then IVF.  I dont know what to think!  x


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## Flossy_5

Heya,

Laird I haven't heard of ovarian insensitivity I'm afraid. I found a few references to it on Google but nothing to explain what it is. Does it just mean when the ovaries are not very sensitive to gonadtrophin stimulation or did she suggest it is an actual syndrome? Also, what is the diff between your usual gynea and the community one, do you have appointments with both?
Sorry to hear about your Aunty and the funeral, it must be so difficult to adjust to being alone after such a long time. Maybe in a while she might be able to find a new interest to focus on.

Patches, hopefully you are nearly there now for this cycle....

Afm - I had my bone scan results today, no loss of density which is good news. They also agreed that I've made really good progress with the weight gain (about 22lbs in total) and that it might not be realistic for my frame to gain anymore so not to stress too much about it. 

Oh yes and good luck with the Hycosy Laird, am I right in thinking its weds? I'm sorry I didn't mean to panic you about it. I thought they were being a bit too cautious with me but I think they prob see more people with irregular ov. Just remember deep breaths and a couple of pain killers beforehand.


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## Patches

Great news about the bone scan, Flossy   It sounds as though your docs are really encouraging so at least you don't need to feel you have to beat yourself up about the weight now.

I don't think you should ever have to apologise for feeling one way or another about work or lifestyle, Laird - if you feel that way then it's perfectly valid. Sorry to hear about your earlier work experience though. I'm not surprised that shook your confidence. And I'm really sorry about your uncle too - I never actually said anything at the time I don't think. And thank you too for the nice sentence you wrote about me a few posts back. Here's a hug for all that stuff:   !

I've never heard of ovarian insensitivity either, unless it's what Flossy suggested and just someone who doesn't respond too well to the drugs (in which case I think I have it too!). What would the plan be for the next step if you go down that route? If you were thinking you preferred IVF anyway then maybe it would be a fast track? I think that changing areas can slow things down a bit as you have to wait for an initial referral, but if your notes make it across to show that you've had all the investigations then after that it should be ok (and as we know, you can wait for months for an appointment in your own area!).

Good luck with the hycosy, and happy spring vibes to you all  (and some vibes to actually get on and ovulate to my body, but not this weekend please because dp is away   )


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## laird

Hi girls,

oh thats great news about the bone scan, one less thing to worry about!  dont worry about panicking me, i like having all the information possible to hand anyway what you said is perfectly valid (even if im going to ignore it anyway in the nicest possible way!)

well a bit more research uncovers 'resistant ovary syndrome' and gonadph resistant ovary syndrome but both talk about high FSH levels which I do not have, they seem to be what shes talking about and seem to be autoimmune conditions.  I see the community Gynae because my GP suggested I did as she is  the so-called 'local expert'.  

I dont see how i can change how im being treated anyway because if i tell my consultant that someone else is saying it isnt HA because my hormone levels arent low enough he's likely to fall out with me saying i shouldnt be stressing myself with such things....


Thanks for the wishes about the hys scan, im just happy to be doing something useful (how sad is that)  xx


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## Patches

If it's sad then we're all right old saddos with you


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## laird

I can't believe it, I have just spent 20 mins with the Radiologist fiddling with different catheters inside me to be told she couldnt do the scan because the entrance to my womb is too small.  I'll have to go back some time and have aneasthetic apparently.  Have you heard of this before? I wasnt prepared for that.


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## laird

Hi,

The nurse has just explained that because I have such a tight cervix they will need to do something to dilate it. Apparently they cannot just re-schedule it and I have to wait for my next appointment to talk through the options and sign the paperwork. So great, the appointment I had hoped would be about starting my next cycle of treatment is going to be about that.


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## Flossy_5

Raaarr!!! How frustrating, the best laid plans.... 
I have heard of a narrow cervix but I'm afraid I don't know anything particularly about it. I'm guessing that it won't cause any issues for tiny sperm but as you say for things like IUI and HSG's you would need dilating. I know your keen to get on with the treatment (which I can certainly relate to) but maybe it is a good thing to have a small break before starting the next cycle, for a bit of a breather. Might also be a chance for DP to feel a bit less pressurised about it all and he might feel better for next time. 

Thinking about your question of diagnoses, I wonder if your consultant feels that it doesn't really matter exactly what is the cause of your anovulation as maybe he would still treat it in the same way. It might be worth asking your community gynae if she thinks it would make a difference to treatment.


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## laird

Hi Flossy,

Yes it is true that now it wouldnt make a difference to the treatment but it would make a difference to the fact that I keep being told by my consultant that it is my fault, firstly for being too thin and latterly for being too stressed!  If there is something wrong with my ovaries then I have spent 18 months putting on weight and not having any treatment waiting for AF to come back when its not going to. 

On the other hand, it makes more sense to me that it is weight related as I fight the HA profile so well!  

I have spoken to my nurse and she says they wont be able to do IVF without having some kind of op to dilate my cervix so thats the next step.

I think I am so upset about it because I thought it was going to be fine, I was being really posiitive about it and my body has let me down again.

I know it sounds defeatist but I am not used to doing things I am not good at. I feel like giving up and doing something I am good at: travelling, being a good wife, making people laugh, being slim. None of which I am doing at the moment. God that sounds so rubbish!  

On the other hand I am the luckiest girl in the world to have married my DH. Before I went for the HSG he gave me a card and flowers. In the card it said 'thank you for being so brave. I never would have believed before I met you that I could think so much of someone as I do for you. It is no exaggeration to say that you are my world.'    

How HA is this though, he emailed me to tell me that he did realise he had misspelt exaggeration..... what does it say about me that he thought he had to apologise for that?!

he made me laugh though today he said before that my ovaries were prudish and now he keeps saying 'well what do you know you have a prudish cervix too' LOL

Sorry for waffling on about me, I promise I will be around for you guys too! xx


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## rjmett

Hi Laird

Just wanted to pop by and say that the difficult cervix is not actually that rare. At my HSG i was so tense she really struggled and almost had to call the gynae in to get the tube in. She said failing that i would need to have the cervix dilated at a later date to get the tube in but apparently happens frequently.

When i had a mock embryo transfer one of the fertility nurses got the catheter straight in as she knew what shape my cervix was from the HSG and was obviously experienced with the odd cervix or 2  

However when i had my actual embryo transfer i was very tight and tense so almost had to be sedated so they could dilate my cervix to put the embies back. They got there in the end though.

So if you do have a misbehaving cervix   it is not uncommon and there are ways around it, it wont stop you from having tx. Sorry that it is causing a delay for you thought  

I get very frustrated with my body at times, it seems to want to do the opposite of what it is supposed to!

Becca x


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## Patches

Hi!

So sorry this feels like a setback, Laird   I hope that Becca's words of encouragement are some reassurance that it shouldn't hold you back in the longer term. I would really try not to beat yourself up about how you're doing with things (easy to say I know, but still...). Your doctor has clearly been rubbish in the way that he's handled things - listen to your husband not to him!!! This is a really tough thing that you're going through and you shouldn't feel that you have to be performing as normal. Besides, this one is just a quirk of your body rather than it rebelling or deciding it's going to go on strike. Better to know now that find out when you're doing an embryo transfer.

The story about your dh was so cute   It sounds as though he has a touch of the HAs too if he thought about his spelling afterwards!

Are you still monitoring whether the clomid had any effect? I feel I should start peeing on opks again but I sort of can't face it at the same time. I don't think I'll start just yet as dp has gone away for the weekend and I don't want to know if we're missing an opportunity! 8 weeks today, and counting (last two times were 9)

Also - please don't worry about talking about how you feel. I'm sure we'll all take our turn when we need it and it's nice to feel you feel comfortable talking about it here.

I hope you manage to have nice weekends


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## laird

Hello!

Cheers for your words of support re: HSG. It was horrendous!  She kept walking off leaving me with the metal thing in and coming back with different tubes and shaking her head!  I have been assured by the nurse that it is nothing to do with me being tense (I dont want to be getting the blame for that one) it is anatomical. 

Anyways got to stop thinking about it. Patches: hmmm, what to do.  Did you start testing around the time you had symptoms last time, twinges and things? If it would really drive you mad I would wait until you really feel its the right time.  I have tried a few tester strips and there has been no second line at all!! Is that normal?!

I have spoken to the nurses and they tell me that the clinic I am going to on the 23rd is not an IVF clinic so he wont be referring me at this stage.  The op on my cervix would last a couple of months apparently. I have emailed his secretary and told him that I do not want to try another cycle of injections. Really I want to do IVF and then I will be away from him (I would go to a different area for IVF) also I figure that because my FSH has never been low  I am worried about what is going on with my eggs and at least with IVF we would know. I would like to then have the cervix thing done while on the waiting list for IVF (I have been told they would have to do it for ET)

So that will probably send him crazy that I have had the cheek to speak out of turn. I am really scared to see him already after last time. I am prepared to go to the other specialist if it turns nasty!

Good luck Patches, come on those pesky ovaries! I guess you must feel conflicted because you want them to do their job as soon as poss yet at the same time not while DP is away!  Mind you if you get a positive OPK test now you would still have time if he is back tomorrow wouldnt you?....


----------



## Flossy_5

Oh Laird, I do hope this doctor will soon be a distant memory because his awful comments seem to be causing you to shoulder an awful lot of responsibility for these things, the HA, cervix probs etc. Whatever his opinion is, I don't think you are to blame for any of what has happened. To be your fault would imply that we can know everything, control all of our actions and predict every possibility in life, and then that you would deliberately sabotage things for yourself. I really do believe that this is just one of those curve balls that life just loves to throw at us. At my appointment earlier this week I think it was evident I was getting stressed out that I hadn't achieved the BMI of 22 that my gynea consultant wanted. The gastro consultant was very reassuring and said that I really shouldn't view this as a failing on my part and encouraged me to see the huge changes I had made. I do go through periods of thinking 'if only I'd done such and such...' but in reality none of us had any idea this would happen. And even once you do realise what is causing the problem, still these things are sometimes beyond our conscious control, its just part of us. I hope I haven't spoken out of turn, but having wrestled with my own permanently guilty conscience I can't stand seeing people being made to feel guilty by others', like your doc. 
Just a Q, would you make the same decision about another round of injectibles even with a different doc? Sounds like you are fed up with them now regardless though. I think you shouldn't worry about ******* him off if he doesn't agree with you. Yes he may have trained many years to do what he does, but sometimes there is no one right answer. 

Oh and your DH sounds like a really lovely guy, I'm sure one day soon you will make fantastic parents. I wish my DP was so romantic, but hey, he's great in many other ways so I guess we can't have it all.  

Patches - ooh the dilemma. Do you think you could stick testing from 8 weeks, just in case the cycles are going to start getting a little shorter? Every now and then I get a stick out, just to see. But sometimes I think I do it as an easier way of finding out there's been no magical conception (oh and Laird, I've never gotten a second line, only a negligible faint one if you stare at it with a magnifying glass, half an hour later). 

Becca, hope the pg is progressing nicely. I'm sure the battle is far from over once we get there, but you are hope to us all that it is possible. x


----------



## laird

hey there,

Thank you for your post, very sensible advice, I bet you are great at your job!  What is your BMI now? have they set you some kind of targets for next time?  are you going to keep seeing the Gastro consultant? do have other gastro issues? I originally saw a gastro consultant too but after numerous humiliating investigations they confirmed that I do not have any gastro conditions except IBS. I have to say my IBS has almost cleared since I have started eating less fibre and more fat.

Re: next treatment, I have been asking myself that question!  I guess I can't think what I would want to do with another counsultant because I have got used to mine being rude, patronising and aggressive. having spoken to the Community Gynae I at least know that it is not personal against me. I have agreed to go on the 23rd and see what he says. If it doesnt go well I will ask to be transferred and then maybe with the right support I would try another lot of injections.

I guess I favour IVF so that I can see if my eggs are any good.

By the way I got a proper line on the test stick yesterday for the first time. It wasnt as dark as the test line but still I felt heartened!


----------



## laird

Hmm, no line today, i think it was just me imagining things!  must get a life, must get a life....


----------



## Flossy_5

Oh poop I was hopeful for you that the second line might be impending ov. Was it really faint (as in have to look really hard to see it) or was it definately there? Might be worth doing one AM and PM for the next few days just in case. If your anything like me, your pee could be too diluted?? As I say, I've never had one that looks like a proper second line, always very faint. 

I have coeliac disease so I am under a gastro for that. I contacted them when I first noticed things weren't right after coming off the pill (hair falling out, always hungry, drinking a lot, dizzy spells, spots like a teenager). So I had loads of tests for any possible underlying problems (at the time I was still eating a lot, just virtually no fats so i hadn't made the connection). I had an MRI of the small bowel, blood tests for thyroid and diabetes, u/s of the pancreas and a repeat endoscopy (camera down the throat) to see if my coeliac was flaring up. In the meantime I was told to put on weight and when all of these tests were fine they said the diet was definately the problem - now this really does make me feel bad about costing the NHS. 

The fertility clinic haven't set a target as such, but he is keen to let my body have a chance to do its thing naturally. He said if I am hoping to see a change before the next appointment, I should get to a BMI of 22/23 and therefore said I 'have a lot of work to do'. My BMI is just about 21, maybe a smidge below, so I really hope he doesn't say go away and put on more weight and then we'll talk meds.


----------



## laird

Hi there,

I hope you don't mean it that you feel bad about costing the NHS after you have given me the pep talk I needed!  Read what you said and apply it to yourself!  There is no way you would have put yourself through all those tests without being worried that there was something wrong (and they wouldnt have done them) 

So how do you find things with your stomach now that you have changed your diet and put on weight?  Which, by the way, you HAVE done, whether they want you to put on more or not.... you watch that programme where they try and change their diet and then 2 months later they say 'yay they have put on 3 pounds' and I think 3 pounds, thats nothing!  It cant be easy either having to think about what you can eat for your coeliac as well as all this added pressure food wise.

I had similar tests to you and sigmioscopy, i still havent got over that one. I'm scared of going under so I have never had any anaesthetic. Instead I had to give myself an enema the morning of the test... DH found me curled up on the bathroom floor sobbing saying 'I cant do it, i cant get it in'. Took a bit of cajoling. Honestly the things he has had to do.  I found my IBS is completely under control now I eat more fat, weird eh, I really thought I was doing the best thing for my bowel by eating tons of fibre.

The same thing happened to me in that my consultant left it a long time before he would give me any meds. However you have a good few years on me so you can afford the time more than I feel I can.  You also have a more classic HA profile blood-wise so I am betting you will get your AF back when your hormones improve and they will.

The line on my test was very difficult to see then at 5 mins and up to about 10 mins it was clearly visible but then not today.  Oh well, I won't give up hope yet.
xx


----------



## Flossy_5

Yes I do have trouble practising what I preach sometimes   I was offered the camera up the other end, just to completely rule out everything, but I politely declined!! I still can't forget the MRI, 2 and a half litres of liquid I had to drink within 30 mins. I think it stretched my bladder as I was in pain until the next morning. My diet is fine really, been diagnosed now for 8 years and where we tend to cook from scratch I don't find it too difficult. One of the catalysts for my healthy eating mission two years ago was that I used to get unbearable headaches at least three times a week and EVERY single day during my pill free week. I thought it was not eating so much carbs and sugar, but now I've re-introduced more of these, I wonder if it was more to do with the pill. Another reason why I regret staying on it for so long  
Re your IBS, I too thought more fibre would be better, but I knew someone who had it and they also said they had to limit the fibre rather than eat more. I guess it aggravates the bowel. 

Definately don't give up on the opk's just yet, i think it could be a good sign. x


----------



## Fairy_Dust

Hi girls, 

This isn't my normal thread, but wonder if you could give me some advice...

I dont have periods and do not ovulate. Provera didn't work for me and only a strong dose of norithsterone forced a bleed. the only other tablets that work are the pill (and they are not going to help me get my baby!)

The first round of clomid didn't work...
I have my next consultation on Monday and dont want to mess around with any more tablets and wasting my time. I am going to request to go for IVF now. 

I have been reading up on long and short protocol... do you think because i dont ovulate i will be on short protocol? and what do you think this will entail e.g. will i need to have another forced bleed first?

Thanks for you help in advance girls, sending you lots of baby dust

Love FD x x x


----------



## laird

Hi,

I would love to be able to help but don't know anything about IVF.... perhaps Becca can help? 

Do you think you have HA? do you relate to the posts about HA?  Often people end up self diagnosing because it isn't all that common.  My blood results are normal (apart from e2 which is very low) and I also did not respond to clomid because there is not enough oestrogen in my body.  

Have you been told to put on weight? (sorry I cannot now see your signature to see whether this is relevant) because if you do have HA it is very treatable and lots of women revert back to having normal functioning ovaries without any intervention because they gain weight. Fat needs oestrogen. 

It may be the case that your doctor wants to try you on injectables before IVF certainly that is the protocol in my area unless DP has sperm issues.

Hope this is helpful (and we will be appointment buddies on monday!)

x


----------



## Fairy_Dust

Thanks for your reply!!

I have no idea what i have, all bloods have come back normal. When i was 18 i had low oestrogen levels so i was put on the pill, and my periods have never returned since stopping it in 2009 

I am probably slightly overweight (only by a stone) but haven't always been. 

I am so frustrated that i have not been diagnosed with anything that i am trying all routes!!

Good luck with you app on Monday, hope it goes well

FD x x x


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## rjmett

Hi fairy dust  

I was exactly the same apart from provera and norithisterone did not bring on a bleed for me. Had 4 or 5 rounds of clomid with absolutely no effect or period. The pill was the only thing that made me 'bleed'.
Came off the pill a few years ago and never got a period. To be fair my weight was very low and this is probably what caused the amenorrhoea.

We went to IVF and it was long protocol for us. I think it would be for you too. I'm my experience of modding on here, SP seems to be for older ladies who have had poor responses to the long protocol on a previous cycle.

Becca


----------



## Fairy_Dust

Thank you so much Becca for your reply 

I'll have to wait until Monday now to see what the consultant says, but i know i def want to go for IVF rather than wait to see if my body reacts to low medications. 

Congrats on your pregnancy - not long to go now!!

Love FD x x x


----------



## rjmett

No worries hun  

Definately go into your appointment with a good knowledge of what you what to do. Be well researched if that makes sense. Too many times are ladies 'fobbed' off with an alternative to the treatment that they would like to persue.

Good luck and let us know how you get on


----------



## Flossy_5

Hi Fairy dust - sorry I wish I could give more advice, but I don't have any experience / knowledge of IVF either. It must be very annoying not to have a clear idea of what the problem is, I wonder if it could be some sort of variant of HA because of low estrogen?? Have you ever had scans for cysts or other tests carried out? Hopefully at your appointment you will get the answers you need, but be prepared for the fact that if you haven't had a full range of investigations they may wish to do that first, I can't see whether you've seen a consultant yet or not? I can definately relate to frustrations of not getting anywhere - I'm not very good at 'lets wait and see'. Only another 5 weeks to go till my next app


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## Patches

Hi ladies!!

Sorry for going off AWOL again - busy week at work. Hello and welcome to FD! I love it when we have new people on here  I'm sorry to hear you've never been given a diagnosis - I know how hard that is. I don't have any direct experience of IVF either I'm afraid but I really hope that you have a good appointment on Monday. It's good that you know what you want - and it worked for Becca, so fingers crossed for you! Does the LP mean you need to down-reg? I'd always assumed that if you (ie we) don't have cycles there would be no need for that but I've never actually asked.

Laird: I think it's great news that you got some response on opks. My second line is never as dark as the control line even when I know I did go on to ov, so personally I think anything at all is good! Do you temp? Is there a chance you could have ov'd from the clomid? On my last cycle I only got one positive opk - I guess it depends on when the surge happens as to whether you catch it once or twice. But even if you didn't I still think it's a good sign that you had some response to it. I know you're keen not to mess around any more with these but it's possible a higher dose of clomid might work. I can totally imagine not wanting to try yet another thing if I were you though.

I'm in a similar position myself actually - I had a fainty faint line a couple of days ago, a slightly darker one the next day, but then back to fainty faint and then not really anything. The trouble is I'm using a different brand of test from before so I don't know if you always get a shadow where the second line would be. I haven't had much cm at all this time so I'm a bit confused. I made poor dp dtd this morning before work this morning just in case even though he was feeling ill as I'm away from home on a work trip now (truly we have the worst luck with timing - and next time he'll be abroad at my likely o date   ). No temp shift yet but I keep waking up stupidly early so they're a bit all over the place too. Sigh. I'll keep you posted.

I hope you're doing ok with the waiting, Flossy. And hello Becca - can't believe how close your due date is getting!!

xxx


----------



## laird

Hi ladies,

Excuse the really early post (DH gets up at 6am for his commute) good to hear from you girls! Patches argghhh, you are busy people, I have only just started using these OPKs so I dont know what to say. Could you get your progesterone checked again? what CD would it have been if you ovulated on the day you got a slightly darker line?

I am so confused. I had a line saturday, not much sunday, same monday then a good line tuesday (like half as dark as the second really dark line) then yesterday fairly good line but definitely not enough (I received my expensive digital ones in the post as they seem more reliable and tried that yesterday evening)

The thing is yesterday I started getting a pain in my lower left abdomen, like I had when I had been taking all the meds last time (I had it much worse but in the same place) it happened around the time of ovulation after the trigger. It feels like something is pressing against some part of my bowel. When I pull my knees up as in to keep spermies in then I can feel it.  Bit worried about it because deep down I dont think 50mg would have had any effect enough to ovulate but could it be a cyst.... I think I am going to phone the nurse today and ask if I can have a scan on Monday when I go and see the Consultant.

xx


----------



## laird

Oh and in answer to your questions, I dont temp, I think it would drive me crazy and I am still wanting to press on with IVF, see if those eggs are any good!  

It feels like I have a bit of wind in my lower bowel on the left (as I look down) which is not unusual for me as I have IBS BUT it doesn't normally feel like it is pressing against something, the only time I felt like this was both times after I ovulated which I thought was the result of (over?) stimulation and went away after a few days.

Think I will wait and see on Monday, maybe I'll ask a few questions about whether my ovaries are multicystic v polycystic, help with the puzzle.  I have just booked a scan for Monday before my appointment so I can see what is going on.  Nurse thinks it sounds like bowel troubles.

Patches just thinking on.... maybe you have just experienced a fluctuation in LH and your surge is yet to come?  xx


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## Patches

Hi!

It sounds as though getting a scan is a good idea. But if it feels like you did when you ov'd before, AND you've had some darker tests - perhaps it has worked?! Keep us posted!

Still no temp shift for me, though I woke up stupid early again today. Sigh. No idea what's going on.

xx


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## rjmett

I get up about 5am each morning with no excuses!! I'm an early bird  

Those ovulation tests are a nightmare   Your LH will naturally peak and trough throughout the cycle. They only consider it a positive result if the line is as dark as or darker than the control line. This means the level of LH is high enough to trigger ovulation. I never ovulated and tested reguarly with them and got a variety of lines but none were ever as dark as the control line. 

I'm sure you already know this, just thought i'd share what the consultant told me. His best advice was to stay away from them  

Becca x x


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## laird

Hi there, Patches,

Arrghh its so annoying and after you have been so calm and patient I was hoping that would mean you got your ov signs sooner this time.  Thing is it seems from those that do symptom check and temp seem to get different things each time and are driven thoroughly mental by it.  I hope you get some clearer signs soon.  Have you thought of getting the CB digital ov tests?, at least then you get a smiley face (allegedly) I seem to remember you weren't certain you o'd last time and then you got your progesterone done and it was good so don't give up hope.  I guess it doesnt help that you are really busy at work and tired from not sleeping well.  

AFM: This morning I got a really dark line on one test (wilkos freedom brand) a not so dark one on the homehealth ones that Flossy recommended and no smiley face when I splashed out and ripped open the Clear Blue ones. I am comparing the different brands (and throwing money down the drain) 

My reflexologist has just told me she is expecting her second child.  She tells me she never even got a line on an OPK so stopped using them (she had irregular periods but no diagnosed condition) apparently she got so fed up she got her DH to have a go and see if HE got a line...

Not sure what the moral of that is..... I suppose that OPKs don't always work!

xxx


----------



## laird

I have a smiley face... I knew it wasn't my bowels!  I am so pleased. It is CD20 so maybe the clomid 50mg did the trick (I think I will be keeping quiet at my appointment)  It has been a full 20 months since coming off the pill.    xx


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## Flossy_5

OMG, just doing a final email check before going to bed, that's great news!!! It does sound like the right time in your cycle and the other symptoms sound good. Time to BMS BMS BMS, get that turkey baster out again if you have to. Does hubby know? You could always keep quiet for less pressure? xx


----------



## laird

Ha, he does know because I did a lap of excitement round the car when he got back from work!  We were supposed to be out for dinner but ended up heading home early because he wanted to get on with it!  The CB tests say 99% accurate so I really hope I ov'te.....I can't believe it after all this time.  My body fat is now 25%, I think that is the big difference for me.  DIY IUI is at the ready, don't think I will be getting it over my clenched cervix though... ouch.


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## Patches

Laird, that's great news! I told you so  

AFM - I'm afraid I'm finding all my stuff really difficult at the moment so I'm going to disappear off here for a bit and regroup. I'm really sorry, but I know you'll understand.

Lots of luck while I'm off   

xx


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## laird

Patches, sorry to  hear that. If I can help in any way please let me know, you could PM me


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## Flossy_5

Hey Patches, in case you are still reading - sorry to hear things are not so good at the moment. You've been so patient and good spirited despite everything, you are an inspiration. I can understand wanting to lay low for a while, take care while you're away and hopefully we'll hear from when you're ready. x


----------



## laird

Hey girls,

How is everyone doing?  Just a quick update from me. Defo think I ov'd bc I have sore bbs and no pain in my ovary anymore.

Had my appt yesterday, he didn't go for the IVF and I knew he wouldn't. He is now saying he wants us to do 6 goes at menopur first!  As he puts it egg and sperm has only had two chances to meet. He says he will try a step down approach and IUI but he thinks our chances of it working are really good and that we don't need IVF. I suppose we have that as a back-up.

I am just waiting for the appointment for my cervix dilation and HSG as that is holding everything up. I don't want it this week or next though bc I would be surprised if I didn't get my period.

xx


----------



## Flossy_5

Hey Laird, that's great news about the possible ov. Can you get a progesterone test just to make sure? I can understand you not wanting to come clean with the gynea about the Clomid, but either you ovulated on your own or the clomid was just the push you needed. In which case it would be such a shame to have to go through the injects again if the Clomid would be enough. Do you think you could persuade the GP to prescribe it, or the other gynea? I don't know how it works in your area, but I know my GP won't touch my treatment because as far as he's concerned I've been referred to the fertility clinic and they are in charge of my care. Well anyhow, I still think BMS like crazy and wait to see what happens in the next fortnight, although I guess its less than that now though!!m 
If I were you I really would be wary of having the HSG / dilation in the next week - if you do get an app in the next week, call them and tell them you think you ov'd to see what they say (maybe another good reason to get a prog test). At the very least perhaps they could have a good look around with the u/s before sticking anything else up there. 

As for me, no change. I'm still just impatiently waiting for something / anything to happen....


----------



## laird

Hi Flossy,

It may sound crazy but I am adamant that I dont want the consultant to know if I did indeed ovulate because I wouldn't trust him to not just send me away and not treat me anymore it has taken such a long time to get to this point (of being treated).  I suppose if I get AF I could ask again about clomid.  Yes, I will be stalling any unnecessary poking around for at least a week or two!

I talked them into doing the AMH test as well so that should be interesting. He started saying we had to pay for it (90 quid) but the nurse just did it after!

We had BMS weds/thurs/fri/sat/sun..... I need another holiday!  No idea whether I actually ov'd but all the signs are there. I guess I will know in a week or so.

Are you still putting on weight?  At least that's one thing that we feel we can do about the situation. I honestly can't believe that my weight has just settled at 10 stone 3 and hardly fluctuates what ever I eat. I have been the same since xmas so maybe that is where I need to be, who knows?......  xx


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## Flossy_5

Hey Laird, what is the AMH test? I've heard it mentioned a few times  but no idea what it means. Is it standard to charge for it?
How are you doing anyway? any news, funny feelings? 

For me, my weight has more or less levelled off, just ever so slightly continuing to gain. I've totalled 26lbs now so needless to say I'm getting seriously impatient to still have nothing to show for it, except bulging clothes  
I've been having another truly miserable couple of days. I feel like I can't stop eating now and just feel like a beached whale (I know I don't look like a whale to other people but I'm sure you'll understand). Work is also just busy busy busy. I even shed a couple of tears at work this week because some days it is emotional and even though I consider myself pretty hardened, it does still get to me on occasion. Plus I still feel left out from my two sisters (one pg, one has a 7 week baby), which is ironic really as they both wish they lived a little further from our home town so they would get so much interferring........ they know I'm having problems but my family don't really ever ask how I am. I think maybe they think I'm the strong one so don't need looking after. Sorry for the long ramble / grumble, I'm glad I can post to you guys cos it feels so lonely sometimes, especially since there is prob only one friend who knows the extent of how much this upsets me.


----------



## laird

Hi Flossy,

Sorry to hear you have been feeling a bit down. I do indeed know EXACTLY how you feel!  Could you maybe get your hormones tested again to see how the weight gain has made a difference? (I'll bet anything it has).  Your comment about how people don't ask you how you are completely resonates with me as my family and friends are like that too. I am normally the one they come to for advice (even my parents) so they just don't think I need them or DH often says they don't know what to say to me so they say nothing.  

Your weight gain BTW is fantastic, well done you, I bet you look great!  what size clothes do you take now?    as for saying you feel like just keep eating, well maybe that is exactly what your body needs. I know from reading the FT board that several people got their cycles back when they totally sat on their backsides and piled on some unwanted pounds (like at xmas or if they were feeling a bit lazy). Don't forget too that you will be having hormones fluctuating now more than before and that will effect your mood and your appetite too (I know it does me).  So if I can say something to you that DH always says to me  'don't be hard on yourself'    

Have you been getting  any more signs that your body is gearing up to do something? I'm sure it is frpm what you have said before....... its just so hard waiting and having to always be the great colleague/friend/daughter/sister when you don't feel like it and no-one really understands. I've even had friends look at me like I'm showing off  when I say I have to gain weight!

AFM I really think I ovulated as I have had really sore bbs (until today when they have just felt a bit itchy!), I have felt really odd all week but I think that is because of the stress of seeing the consultant and then not sleeping for some reason. My stomach has been all over the place and I have had loads of CM, I have to keep checking I haven't got AF already!
The AMH is a more accurate reflection of your egg reserve and they always do it before IVF. I don't know if they normally charge for it or if he was just being a XXXX. They told me today that I won't get the results for a month, mint eh?!


Are you doing anything nice for the weekend? My sister's eldest is 18 on sunday and he is having a party. Also my brother's youngest is being christened next weekend and I am godmother!  
This Saturday is our 6 year wedding aniversary so we are out tomorrow, should be fun, better to be busy eh xxx


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## Flossy_5

Thank you for the kind words, had a few tears and that helps. I don't always want to bend DP's ear about it for the zillianth time and you're right, people do see me as the advice giver mostly. What probably doesn't help with my family is that they're not very comfortable with 'feelings', so they can ask me about tests etc but not so good at the how are you bit. I managed to get a b/w request from the consultant last time, so I'm planning on getting them done a couple of weeks before my appointment. I really do feel like a teenager again, thankfully my skin has cleared up a bit since gaining weight - it was so embarrassing for about 6 months. Other than that no more signs really.

Your signs are sounding really promising, whether it be AF or better. Even if its just AF I still think that is huge progress. 

Congrats on your anniversary, is it a surprise or have you planned something together? Kind of nice you don't have to worry about the pressure of a cycle this weekend so you can just enjoy celebrating together. For me I'm not up to a great deal this weekend. I shall be visiting the family for my sister's b.day and apart from that probably just more stuff around the house. Nice 3 day week next week because I've booked an extra day off to attend my friend's wedding. 
Your friends wedding is pretty nearby to me, are you going? I don't know the venue as such but very nice location generally. Great cycling and walking places. You should visit 'Sandy Balls' always cracks me up when I drive past 
Well hope you enjoy your busy weekend, I think its nice to have lots of things to keep you going. Hope the pos signs continue. x


----------



## Flossy_5

I just edited you're to your!!  I'm such a LOSER


----------



## laird

Hi there,

I changed my post so it doesn't give away your rough location (I took out the wedding location). Yes we are going DH is best man.  My FIL also lives in the same county as do many of DH friends now we have all moved out of London so we will probably make a long weekend of it.

Ha, no it's not a surprise I am rubbish at those. I was trying to give DH his card last night even though it's our anniversary today, so pleased I am with the picture on the front!

My family are exactly the same, no-one talks about feelings and my parents are really emotionally immature, I know that sounds weird for me to say that but it is true (they are also divorced but live together in perpetual misery) anyways, i know what you mean. When my HSG failed to happen I started crying in the waiting room and my mum didn't even touch me just sat rigid like she wanted to disappear bc she just didn't know what to say.  She normally says something like 'it could have been worse' and I get annoyed that she can't say the right thing. I don't mean to criticise her, she did come with me, and she does try, she just finds it hard.

BTW jambaby got her BFP....... take a look on FT it's a really great story and shows there is hope for us all.

Not a loser just particular  
xxx


----------



## rjmett

Hi girls  

Sorry for going AWOL, the little one decided it was time to meet us  

Hope everyone is well and will catch up properly when I get a spare 10 mins

Becca x x


----------



## laird

Hooray, congratulations Becca!  Your signature has disappeared but I think you said it is Charlie right? How are you?  I realise you will be extremely busy and tired but just wanted to let you know that I am thinking of you and really pleased for you. All that hard work was definitely worth it!  xx


----------



## rjmett

Thanks laird   can u see my signature and ticker now? It's there on my screen  

We're all good if not a little sleep deprived   But it's to be expected  

We called our little man Charlie, DH's choice. It's very fitting!

Hope ur all well x x


----------



## Flossy_5

Oh Becca congratulations, such amazing news. Grab every secod of sleep you can!!

Laird - thanks for thinking of that, I was probably being overly paranoid though. Emotionally immature capture perfectly what I was tring to explain. My mum wasn't very old and therefore not very emotionally mature when she had us. Subsequently I don't think she was ever that great at managing her own or other people's feelings and nobody in our family is very tactile. Really I would love sometimes just to have a big sob and a hug. No answers, no cures, just a hug. But as you say I don't like to criticise because she would bend over backwards to help in any way she can. 

Did you have a good anniversary and party? I've got my fingers crossed for you that AF stays away. x


----------



## laird

Arrgh, I have typed this 3 times now so apologies if this is repeated....

Becca: he is tiny, how sweet!  I hope you and your family are doing well and the whole birthing experience wasnt too bad for you!  

Flossy: Yes the party was great, I feel weird to be aunt to an 18 year old though!  I hear you on the lack of hugs. The only person in my family good at that is my foster sister. Despite having a horrible first few years of her life she is really warm and comfortable with hugs. I started crying on mothers day surrounded by mum, x3 sisters and she was the one who jumped up and hugged me and said she hated seeing me like that.  Thats what you want sometimes!

I see you have been on FT, isnt it great to see some good news!  I have also joined the ** group through Nico, its really nice to see what people look like!  Goingstrong completely gave up exercise and jambaby got to a BMI of 23 (I think) and found that she didnt keep on putting on weight so that is obviously her 'happy weight'.

feeling a little stressed today as it is day 10 and i got AF without warning both times. Even just a few more days to make my LP better would be nice....  

Did you have a good bank hol?  xx


----------



## Flossy_5

Yeah I thought I'd post on the FT board, which I don't do often as I have to confess, I often get lost with so much going on. I did send a message a couple of days ago to get added to the ** page, but don't seem to have got a response yet. Maybe I'll try again. 

Oh this must be such a stressful time right now with the constant checking. Have you allowed yourself to think about the possibility of testing, or are you playing it safe to spare the feelings? I know if it was me I'd be dying to POAS but I also know its easier not feeling let down if its not the result you wanted. 

Glad you had a lovely weekend. I'm feeling really bad because the constant baby talk between my family was making me feel grumpy and now I feel selfish for being slightly off all day. x


----------



## laird

Hi,

Ah don't be hard on yourself we all have days like that, I certainly do. It's incredibly stressful what we are going through.  Are you counting down the weeks to your appointment now? i'm slightly annoyed no-one has contacted me about the cervix dilation and HSG seeing as its been over a week since we saw the consultant, but then I talk to people who are actually ill and awaiting cancer treatment for weeks on end and I feel guilty.....

Have you PMd Nico about the ** page?  I'm not a ** fan but it is great to see what people look like.

I tried a test stick this morning but it was negative and I spose too early.  I will test again tomorrow. I didn't even get to test the other 2 times bc of the trigger being still in my system for 10 days and I would have hated a false positive at least this time I dont have that.  It is very strange not knowing what is going on, even if I ov'd. My bbs still really hurt which went away the first time and I didnt have them at all last time.  This time I have been feeling sick, having hot flashes, loads of CM and really slight AF pains yesterday, maybe my body is shaking off some of this darn HA and that has coincided with my taking the clomid.  

xx


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## Flossy_5

Oh bummer, but it is still early days especially as you can never be 100% about the day / time of ov. Still, whatever the result there is definately something encouraging going on there. If your area is anything like mine, its snails pace waiting for an app. Maybe you should give them a call tomorrow to check they haven't forgotten about you. 

I did PM Nico with my ** page, I don't use it much either but as you say its nice to be able to put faces to names. I am so counting down the days to my app. 23 days to go!!! I think I will go get my bloods done end of this week or beginning of next.  x


----------



## laird

Hi Flossy,

Bloods sound like a good idea, good luck with that!  

BFN again today but still really sore bbs and no AF.  Time will tell if anything actually happens.  I am tempted to phone the hospital but I always get the feeling that they think I am being a pain, I think I will leave it til the end of the week and if I havent heard anything then phone x


----------



## laird

Got up today to brown sludge.... AF?  I'm hoping it will turn into blood!    

Very upset yesterday bc I chased up my appt for dilation and HSG and they are saying they can't do it until  Aug which seems ridiculous to me.  xx


----------



## Flossy_5

Oh rats that is dissapointing when you really want to hope that it has finally happened. However, you should be really encouraged that you really did ov - maybe on your own, maybe with the help of the clomid and that is fantastic news. Do you think you can get a prescription for more clomid without your consultant knowing? I'm sure none of the docs actually talk to one another about what they're doing, so could be worth a go. 

I'm trying to have a nice relaxing weekend, gone away for the weekend for a wedding. No running and lots of eating. I'm currently feeling like my stomach is in my throat, finally found a meal that beat even me!! Have you any nice weekend plans?

Oh and Nico added me to **, can't find the link for the group tho, where did you find yours?


----------



## laird

I replied to this over the weekend, so i have no idea where it went....

To find the ** link you just go on groups, or put 'group' in the search box and it should come up. let me know if that doesnt work.  

Hope you had a lovely weekend at the wedding. I was godmother yesterday to my youngest nephew. Was a nice day and an honour but then we spent the afternoon surrounded by lots of everyone elses kids, im used to it but DH found it really difficult. We used to like watching River Cottage but we have to turn off now.... similar reasons. too many proud parents clutching their brood to them as they stir the cake mix..... urgh.

AF turned full flow friday, hooray. I then managed to procure some clomid....... then after chatting to DH we realised that now I have AF we can tell the hospital.  We were worried before that it would put a hold on further treatment if he thought i was cycling on my own, but he isnt doing anything for us at the moment anyway!  So i phoned them and the nurse sounded pleased. they now say yes I can take the clomid and they are going to track the follicles so i go in for scanning next week. Really pleased to be getting another lot of treatment in!  I'm now trying to find someone who will do my HSG before the end of august. My consultant said I couldnt get it done any quicker privately but I dont believe that.


----------



## 1810jules

Hello all

I haven't been diagnosed with HA but have not had a period for 5 years since coming off the pill (I am 39).  I've had the progesteron challenge which did not result in a bleed, all of the blood tests (several times) and all ok, laperoscopy to check tubes and ovaries - all fine there too.  Our consultant suggested IUI as we wanted to try for a baby.  The first cycle he got me to take the combined pill for a month before starting it, I was put on 75 IU Gonal F to stimulate folicles - this worked too well and I had about 9 that reached egg bearing size so the cycle was stopped.  The consultant was sure that I would have a period around 2 weeks later and then we'd start the next cycle on a lower dose of Gonal F.  After 5 weeks no period so they said lets start the next cycle (I asked if I needed to do another month on the pill and they said no).  This time I was put on 35 IU of Gonal F and found out last Friday that 2 folicles were maturing to the optimum size - perfect except my womb lining hadn't thickend, they did a blood test and my Oestrogen levels were low.  The consultant is now saying that I am a mystery and next option is IVF.  Has anyone had a similar experience/problems.  So confused and frustrated.  No reason for the absence in periods has been diagnosed, I'm perfect weight for my height, exercise but not excessively, eat fairly healthily.....

Jules


----------



## laird

Hi Jules,

Sounds like you have had a tough time, it's horrible when people don't give definitive answers isn't it? especially with something as life changing as this.

When you say your blood tests were fine, can I just ask did they take your oestrogen then?  I know my results have always been 'normal' apart from the low oestrogen which made it HA.

Have you always been the weight you are now? ever lost a lot of weight?

i am now perfect height/weight but because I was underweight for a short time my periods just didn't come back.  i am also on fertile thoughts HA website and there are ladies on there who say they don't over exercise or under eat but have HA.

Do you trust your consultant, could you get a second opinion? I can see why they would say IVF is the next step (and I have been asking for that too) but seeing as you did respond to the injections do you think you would want to try that again?  If I were you I would want to hear some good ideas as to how they would increase your lining, I know sometimes they use HRT before stimming so you don't have to worry about your lining not being thick enough, that goes for IVF as well as injections alone.


----------



## Flossy_5

Hey, Just thought I'd post on here in case Patches returns and she thinks we've gone awol!! Also any new ladies who may pop by, we're still here so do post to say hi.. 

Jules are you still reading? Anything new with you? I was wondering whether they were allowing your follies to get to a big enough stage to pump out enough oestrogen to thicken the lining? My understanding is that for some ladies they have to get really big to start thickening up the lining.  

Still nothing happening to me, gained 26lbs, waited 5 months and still no signs of anything happening. Patience is now wearing thin. B/W done today, so we'll see what happens next Thurs!! xx


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## rjmett

Hi 

Just waiting to see if I actually manage a natural AF since having Charlie. Maybe it's wishful thinking but am hoping things might have kick started? I'm 1.5st heavier than I was so if weight was the issue maybe the gain will have done the trick?!

Hello to everyone else


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## laird

Hello there!

Becca, aahhh look at him!  How is he sleeping?  I thought prolactin meant that AF wouldn't necessarily come back straight away but thats about the extent of my knowledge.

Flossy: when do you get your blood results back?  xx

Patches if you are reading, I miss you!  Hope you are ok.

My cyst seems to be growing at an impressive speed, xxxxing typical that a cyst would grow 5mm in 2 days when it took about 2 weeks on injections to get that response from a follicle.  I'm still hoping the 14mm one on the other ovary keeps growing.

xx


----------



## Flossy_5

Aw Becca he's absolutely gorgeous, bet it all still feels like a dream. Are you breastfeeding? Still very early days yet, but it would be great to think the pregnancy will re-set everything for you. 

I probably won't get the b/w back until Thurs. Not a long wait so I won't harrass them by phone beforehand. I did get a letter today though about some other bloods taken a while back. B12 back to normal, Vit D still crappy at 39 pmol/l. I'm worried that my oestrogen has taken a dip because I've just got over a really bad 2-week break out of spots, yuk. Aside from the obvious lack of ov, this really has been the worst aspect of the whole thing. Honestly, I feel like I'm about 13 again and doesn't help my confidence levels.  

Lots of love to you Patches, I'm sure you'll read this at some point. xx


----------



## laird

Hi Flossy,

I didn't know you could get those things tested, was that through your GP?  

I know some of the others on FT say their skin has suffered, that is one thing I have never had so I guess I'm lucky.  Having said that could it be related to things happening.... ie a rise in hormones?  people have breakouts before they get their period don't they?  

xx


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## Flossy_5

No those things got tested by the gastro consultant / nurse I'm under for my coeliacs. When my period didn't return and I first noticed all the other horrible symptoms I asked them to complete a few additional blood tests as part of my annual screen. Showed my parathyroid hormone was high, low Vit D and B12. I've been under close review since, can't praise them enough really for the help and from the very first appointment they noticed how much weight I'd lost from previous reviews and told me immediately to put on weight and not to expect a quick recovery (ok maybe a bit more sugar coated than that). Shame things aren't happening so quick in the IF world. I think the spots are hormone related, they seem to go in waves. A couple of good weeks followed by a couple of breakout weeks. Sadly though I don't think it is impending ov, just my horrible body mocking me.


----------



## laird

Oh that's good that you are being looked after.  I know how you feel about your body letting you down (but can I just say you have a really great figure having seen you on **), at the moment I am feeling a bit sorry for my body because I think it's trying to do something and it's not doing the right thing! I feel slightly disassociated from it if that makes sense!    It is very demoralising to be doing all the right things and still not seeing results I know how that feels. I really think these blood results will be better for you and that because you have been really disciplined with the exercise and weight gain you will respond well to meds if you end up going that route.  x


----------



## Flossy_5

Aw thanks sweetie. This is really pathetic and I'm not sure why I do it, but quite often I flick through those holiday snaps, sort of mourning how my figure was then, pre massive weight gain. Its not that I've ever thought I'm up to much in the looks department, but back then I was so happy with finally losing the bum and thigh flab. In my winter pics I was able to pull those skinny jeans over thermals and a pair of thick long socks. Now I can't pull them up at all!! Ah well, we can't have it all, but I do know what you mean about the dissociation. Hopefully that greedy cyst will step aside for those other follies over the next few days. Just you wait, as soon as you get that sticky bean you'll be reconnected in no time, feeling like a round tummied yummy mummy. xx


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## Sheilaweb

Just wanted to say HELLO ladies, I'm new here, as as your new volunteer, I'm busy playing catch up to see what lovely ladies we have here and for me to see where you are on your individual journeys.

One thing I wanted to mention about weight / self esteem ( I think to two are intrinsicly linked) I lost one and a half stone to get my bmi down for treatment to begin.... I ballooned like the Michelin Man during treatment, so for me personally, I was glad I went into tx a good bit below the upper bmi limit.
I went through a wonderful yet worrying pregnancy and bearly gained an ounce until month 7 and I just exploded hahaha.  Having a new born I ate whatever I could eat quickly, usually with one hand, which wasnt too unpallatable cold - which was invariably a load of rubbish... I gained loads more weight immediately after giving birth to my daughter than I ever did beforehand.
I wasnt in a desperate hurry to get rid of my flab my little one was and continues to be my priority - but the weight is shifting now, although having gone through a c-section my tum is huge..... yes it's true I don't like looking at holiday snaps, but my daughter loves jumping, bouncing and falling asleep on my flabby bits.

I don't know much about HA, but I do know hormones and hormone imbalances can play havoc with weight and how we can effectively deal with it.... 
...I promise to get up to speed with you lovely ladies - just wanted to introduce myself and say hello
Best wishes to everyone and wishing you all my very best wishes for your respective treatments.
Sheila


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## laird

Flossy:  You are lovely looking and your body is in great proportion so i would bet that you look great now albeit just a bit bigger.  I know what you mean about trousers, I have to wear some suit trousers on weds and i cannot get in them; ok I can get IN them but they are really tight and they aren't supposed to be!  I could easily be a size 14 now but I refuse to buy anything in that size. At my slimmest I was a size 8 which doesn't sound that small but on me I looked scrawny and horrible, size 10 would be good but I have to believe what I am doing is making a difference....

Sheila: I love the names Hannah and Caitlin!  the issues with HA and gaining weight are complex because it goes against everything we are told about exercising and healthy eating. its like we are TOO healthy which is hard for people to understand and it is hard for us because often we don't see the results of the changes we have made for a long time.  

xx


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## laird

Just got a smiley face (CD15) they werent too happy about my lining being 6mm yesterday but I just hope it has increased..... assuming  the biggy is s cyst it doesn't seem to have stopped me ovulating (hopefully)  x


----------



## Flossy_5

Hey Sheilaweb, thanks for the post. I probably need a reality check sometimes to stop complaining about my 'jiggly bits'. I do feel bad about it as I'm not remotely overweight even with weight gain, but as Laird said with HA its the opposite problem. At the heart of it is some bizzare neurotic personality trait and also probably self-esteem issues that leads us to over-control eating and exercise. This is equally as toxic to fertility and the prob is its not easy to undo the damage. However I am working on it and accepting I have to be above what I class as my ideal weight. 

Sounds like you are doing well with the weight loss,  I do take my hat off to all the lady's who manage to lose weight for treatment, that really can't be an easy task either. so keep up the hard work.

Hope the 2ww is going ok for you Staceys. You'll have to try and sneak in an update post from Portugal as we'll be dying to know how you're getting on. xx


----------



## laird

Hi there, the trick is just to keep really busy!  So your appointment is this week right? are you going to ask to do the EP?  xx


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## Flossy_5

Yes appointment Thursday!!! It seems like I've been waiting forever for this so hopefully I can start to move forward now. I'm just plumping for Clomid, even if its the normal protocol. Worst case scenario is that injects are suggested. I won't be able to fit the number of scans in around work so I don't know what I'll do if its that or nothing. Thinking positive thoughts...............


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## laird

Hi Flossy, I will be thinking about you.  Just big up all the changes you have made and the changes in CM you have seen and I am sure he will give you clomid.    They tend to be keen to do that because its cheaper than injections. Did you get your bloods back yet?  x


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## Sheilaweb

Flossy
just wishing you all the very best 
Hope everyone is ok.
Best wishes 
Sheila


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## Flossy_5

Hooray, after an unpromising start of having the last appointment slot and clinic running an hour behind, I have definately come out smiling!!!! Got my b/w back - oestrogen still low and below the threshold for giving a specific number, but LH gone up from 0.9 to 3.7 and FSH gone up from 4.6 to 6.6 (prob not so good but I guess it fluctuates). 

Anyhow, he said my weight is looking good and I can either wait for AF to re-appear or start trying ovulation induction with either Clomid or injects. Not surprisingly I said I am fed up of waiting and would like to try the Clomid. He did warn me its not got a great success rate with this diagnosis but now my hormones aren't 'in my boots' there is a chance it will work. Got a 6 month plan - 1st cycle to be monitored, poss try another 2 cycles if I don't get ov the first round, but if I do continue for 6 months!!! I finally feel like I'm getting somewhere now and can begin to move forward.

How are you Laird? Any symptoms? Hope your all prepared for the holiday, waht a fab way to end the 2ww.


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## laird

Flossy, that is great news!  I knew that all the changes you had made would make a difference, nice one you!!  You have a much better chance of responding to clomid now. My experience of injections wasn't good and I had just as good a response on clomid and in 14 days rather than 40.  Go Flossy!  

I know you wanted your FSH to stay low but honestly that wouldn't have been as good, you want to see that your body is trying to ov'te and it is now.....

I am feeling good thanks, no symptoms and looking forward to hols.

xx


----------



## rjmett

Hi ladies, long time no post, how are you all?

I went to the docs last week as still no period since Charlie was born, he's almost 5 months old now. I know I haven't had one for years but was hopeful the pregnancy might kick start them. Doctor did a variety of bloods. Then later that day I started spotting & it has been getting heavier ever since! So could things be getting better?!

I'm assuming I had bloods on cycle day one if it is AF?

FSH 4.2
Oestrogen 80
Progesterone 3

I think these levels are consistent with the start of a cycle, anyone know any better?

I'm quite a flutter at the prospector my cycle returning. 

I hope everyone else is well

Becca x


----------



## Flossy_5

Hi Becca, sorry Laird and I migrated over to the American Fertile Thoughts board, but we've not dissapeared. Neither of us have heard from Patches though .

Fantastic news that your AF seems to have returned and your hormones seem spot on for day one. Did AF turn into full flow in the end? It must have seemed as though the last 5 months has flown by, certainly has for me. 

Well lots been going on... I'll message Laird see if she wants to post an update.

For me.... I started Clomid in June, got no response. Piggybacked 100mg at the beginning of July - still no response. It gave me very thin lining (2mm) and a big cyst. So I had to wait about 6 weeks in the end for that to dissapear. But while I was waiting I sponteneously O'd for the first time in like... 13 years. Unfortunately I had a luteal phase of only 5 days. So I went straight back onto clomid 50mg and was really not expecting much of a response as my CD16 scan showed a 12mm follie, a few smaller ones and a lining of 3mm.  But lo and behold I did O a week later whilst we were away on holiday. I am 11DPO today and got a really faint positive on two different brands of test. I'm trying not to get too excited just yet because of potential for chemical etc (I have no idea if my lining thickened up). I really hope this one is going to stick!!


----------



## rjmett

Flossy - so lovely to hear from you  

Oh my gosh it sounds like a  to me hun, tentative congratulations    It seems like clomid may have done the trick for you. How lucky! First ovulation in 13 years, wow! I really do hope it sticks around for you. Please keep me updated  

Yes my period has continued & continued & continued to get heavier   ouch! There's quite possibly 5 months worth in there to get rid of, feels like it. I've dropped a couple of pounds in the last few days too, weird, maybe water. I wonder if i'll ovulte by myself for the first time in 12 years, we'll have to see. I'm not being monitored so it may be hard to tell.


Hope Laird is well too  . Bless Patches, she hasn't been on since before i had Charlie, i do hope she is ok 

Becca x


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## bythewaydoll

Hey guys. I'm so glad I've stumbled upon this site! After reading some of your posts I have FINALLY found people in the same boat as me. I am also a 'HA Girl' and have no had a period of my own for about 4 years. Was on the pill for a few years and when I eventually came off, my body wouldn't 'work' on it's own. Eventually I had gone to my GP that informed me that most woman would consider themselves 'lucky' not to have a period and unless I was trying for children, it was no biggy! However, my DH and I had just got married and I rather hoped children would be on the cards.. so reluctantly my GP referred me to the fertility clinic whereby i was put on Clomid. I was unresponsive with 50mg so they upped it to 100mg daily for the five days but still no luck. Mind u, my dh had difficulties of his own doing his bit! Soooo we are now on the waiting list for IVF and begin treatment in the summer. I just hope this works! But for now, I am about to start another bout of Clomid, not expecting to become pg but it works wonders for restoring my periods and make me feel 'normal' and 'working' again! lol My GP recommends that I take it straight away without waiting for a period.. otherwise id be dead still waiting! So i just take the first lot of pills whenever I feel like it and they SHOULD kick start my periods for as long as I am taking them, and some months after (like they did last lot of Clomid) before drying up again!   I would like to point out that there doesn't seem to be any problem with my weight as I am in the middle, not too fat but deffo not trim! lol

I would be grateful if you can all give me some advise x


----------



## rjmett

Hi bythewaydoll 

I think it's great that clomid is working for, it never did for me & i was on maximum dose. Does it make you ovulate?

Bx


----------



## bythewaydoll

Yes! My bloodwork seemed to indicate so... and so did the pee on the stick OV kits! Unfortunately we just couldn't master the deed itself.. either that, or conceiving by Clomid just wasn't meant to be! Gonna take another stab at it tho, Dr gave me another few cycles worth of pills so always worth a shot whilst waiting till summer for IVF, at least they will keep my periods alive!

I don't mean to pry, but what treatment, if any, did you try next? x


----------



## rjmett

We went straight to IVF due to DHs poor SA. Did more clomid whilst on waiting list but couldn't cope with the side effects. 

It's fab that it works for u tho, it has a high success rate


----------



## bythewaydoll

Yeah, so am I right to presume from your profile pic that IVF was successful for you? lol 

I am very nervous about the IVF, but since reading all of your testemonies, I'm not as worried now!

Thanks x


----------



## laird

Hi,

Myself and Flossy went over to the FT HA board which I can highly recommend for treatment advice/support.  It sounds like clomid is working for you though so that's great, much easier than more invasive treatment.

x


----------



## bythewaydoll

Hi Laird, nice to 'meet you'.

Yeah, Clomid seems to be doing the job in all areas except what I need it to achieve. IVF is imminent.. so fingers crossed, the areas we need the most help with will be guided by the IVF. I'm not familiar with the HA Bored. Is this a site? Until yesterday, I wasn't sure this issue was common and as widely understood, reading your posts have relieved most of my fears... I'm not alone and there are many success stories for people with HA.

Claire x


----------



## laird

Hi Claire,

If you google Hypothalamic Amenorrhea the Fertile Thoughts thread will come up, it's the best way to meet loads of others going through treatment or even just read through old posts.

xx


----------



## bythewaydoll

Found it thanks! x


----------



## rjmett

Yes Claire we were extremely lucky  

At that point there was no hope for us concieving any other way than with IVF. No drugs worked. DH's sample required ICSI so they wouldn't consider the less invasive IUI.

However things are a little different now, my 'cycle' seems to be trying to resume itself post birth  It seems that it just needed a bit of a kick start (& a little weight gain too i think).

I know the prospect of IVF is daunting but it's just something you have to do, i do hope you wont need it though.

Look at both flossy & Laird... is that 2  's i notice in your posts/signatures ?!!!


----------



## bythewaydoll

Hey, 

Yeah, the prospect of IVF is indeed daunting, but over the last few days my faith has been restored. It has become very apparent that IVF is probably one of the more successful, yet final treatments for HA patients... so if that's what's needed... so be it! lol

Thanks again x


----------



## 1810jules

Hi Flossy and others.

The consultant let the folicles get to around 18/20 ( don't know whether that's mm or what). 

7 years ago when i came off the pill i was about a stone ligher and used to run quite a lot but stopped that  about 6 yrs ago. I am now 5 foot 1 and 8 stone 4lb. At the time i came off the pill i had an operation which caused a haematomia (internal bleed/clot) which meant i needed a 2nd op. When i was discharged from hosp unknown to me i was severly amaemic-close to needing a blood transfusion. Wonder if this has had something to do with my probs?
X


----------



## DAS

Hi all,

I'm new to this board, but not new to HA unfortunately.  At age 15, I lost 8kg in 6 months, which as I was heavy to begin with was not a low weight for my frame, yet my periods stopped.  At the time, my Mom became alarmed, I saw the doc and was diagnosed with mild anorexia.  I tried the Provera challenge with no result and also Premarin with no result.  I remember seeing the doc regularly to check that I gained weight, etc, back up to 55kgs which I held steady for many years.  I went on low estrogen bcp thereafter and left it at that.  Fast forward 17 years, I went off the pill this past Feb because my husband and I want to start a family.  I lost my Mom to cancer last year so I lost 10kg over a period of  7 months after her diagnosis.  My period has been no where in sight since going off the pill, and as I have been reading through my medical records from my teens, I know it is HA from the notes.  I was also diagnosed in my early 20s with a blood clotting disorder which I am thinking is connected to HA.  I had blood drawn on Monday and am now waiting 6 weeks for the hormone scan results.

My question is (and I apologise if it has been answered somewhere in the thread), have any of you experienced the normal PMS symptoms and discharge even though no AF?  Although my periods were always heavy and irregular when I was in my teens, I have been getting the bloated, period cramps, and varying discharge over the last few months for a week or so each month despite no period.  Is this normal for HA?  Does this mean I may be on my way to gaining my cycle back?  I am gaining weight so I do know I am underweight at 45 kg for my 5'3" frame, also cut my exercise by 50%,  but looking for some hope...


----------



## laird

hi DAS.  We don't really post on here anymore and most of us migrated to Fertile Thoughts - Hypothalamic Amenorrhea thread.  I would highly recommend you posting your questions there, loads of girls on the same situation who will offer support.

In answer to your question I would say it sounds like things are going in the right direction but it is difficult to know for sure.  Do you temp?  It may be worth doing so to try and track what is going on.  I never really had any symptoms or discharge even though I did eventually get my periods back.

Oh and lots of hope here   I just had my first child, as did Flossy.  HA is the easiest fertility issue to treat.

x


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