# Parental Order - Cost



## nevergiveup1

Can anyone help me with how much a Parental Order should cost?

Also with an international surrogacy, how do they interview the surrogate?

I am South African and British. The baby will be born in South Africa. We are doing host surrogacy and it is both my and DH's genetic child. I will adopt in South Africa and then come to the UK and apply for a parental order?

If it takes longer than 6 months in South Africa and we arrive in the UK after the child turns 6 months can we apply for a parental order 6 months from the time we arrive back in the UK or does it need to be 6 months from birth??

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!!


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## ♥JJ1♥

I'm sure natalie ff lawyer,will be able to help you as I guess your situation is slightly different with the surrogacy & adoption taking place in SA. Wishing you both lots of luck with your journey
xx


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## CarolynB

Hi Shell

Like JJ I think that some of your questions are best answered by Natalie/a specialist lawyer as yours is not a straight forward situation.  Don't want to say things that turn out to be wrong!

However based on what I know the Parental Order cost us about £160 in terms of what we had to pay the court.  We did not incur any legal fees as we did ourselves as we were a reasonably straight forward.  You may have lawyers fees too

We did not have to pay any extra costs for the travel to interview my sister etc etc. but again that could be because it was all in the UK.

As far as I was aware then you have 6 months from birth to apply.

Good Luck with your journey.  Sticky vibes
Carolyn xx


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## NatGamble

Hi Shell0304

I don't want to sound like I'm being pushy, but your situation sounds like very complicated and I would strongly suggest you get some legal advice.

Parental order applications in straightforward domestic situations typically cost no more than the court fee of £150, since most couples represent themselves, the proceedings are very informal, and the court guides you through what you need to do once you have taken the initial step of submitting your form.

International surrogacy applications are a whole different kettle of fish, and the costs can be much much more significant.  All applications for parental orders involving an international element are now referred to the High Court, where the process is very different (formal court hearings, substantial statements and case papers to prepare, barristers to speak for you etc).  The issues are also typically a lot more complicated.  In particular, you need to establish how papers and proceedings are to be dealt with given that one of the parties (i.e. the surrogate) is outside the jurisdiction, you need to be wary of breaching stringent regulations on international adoption and the movement of children across borders (which can involve criminal offences).  The court will also look much more carefully at the issue of payments (since the understandable presumption is that most foreign surrogacy arrangements are commercial in nature) and if you have paid more than reasonable expenses and so breached UK public policy, the court will need to decide whether, in the particular circumstances of your case, it should authorise your breach of the law to grant a parental order.

You also - quite separately - need to consider issues of immigration and entry clearance.  If you are planning to bring your child back to the UK before you have secured a parental order (and so before you are recognised as your child's parents under English law) he or she may not be a British citizen and you may have no automatic entitlement to bring them into the country.  The rules are very complex and need careful and expert navigation.

In answer to your other question, you must apply for a parental order in the UK within six months of the birth, and this deadline is absolute - the court has no power to extend it in any circumstances, so if you miss it you lose the opportunity to apply for a parental order forever (and we quite agree with lgft that this needs to be changed!).  Depending on your circumstances, it may or may not be possible to apply for a parental order before you get back to the UK, so this is something you need to watch carefully.

I really don't want to scare you, but please do take care with this.  Foreign surrogacy can be an absolute nightmare if you get it wrong, and I wouldn't want you to fall into that category.

If you would like some legal advice, please feel free to get in touch.  You might also find it helpful to read the free information available on our international surrogacy law pages at www.gambleandghevaert.com/page/International-surrogacy-law/36/.

Natalie
[email protected]


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## nevergiveup1

Hi Natalie,

Thanks for the advise. I may very well contact you once we get over 13 weeks but is this a foreign surrogacy as I am South African and have dual citizenship. With dual citizenship, when I am in South Africa I cannot be British and visa versa.

I have a home in South Africa and a business in South Africa where I employ 8 staff.

I am not too worried about whether a child would have British citizenship or not. If the child was South African like me, then I would just apply for a dependancy visa. I have another child who is 15 and is South African and this is what I have done with her.

I just dont know if I need to adopt the child twice as in once in South Africa in my home country and then when I get back do I again apply for a parental order.

When and if a child was born, I would always want to have any child in South Africa for the first few months as I have support from my family, hence the reason that I may not get back to Britain  for the first six months. If I could have given birth to my own child I would have given birth in south africa for this reason.

I have only paid reasonable expenses, no commercial element.

In addition, my husband is Irish and British and therefore we could also look to get Irish passports for the child. My husband will go on the Birth Certificate and I am adopting. Or I can apply in South Africa to the high court before the birth for both our names to go on the birth certificate. At this point I havent decided which option.

Thanks for your help.


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## nevergiveup1

Natalie,

I am just very confused as If I need to adopt / get a high court order in South Africa, as this is where I will be for the first few months. I have taken legal advise in South africa and have a lawyer that specialises in surrogacy. 

Then when I return to the UK do I need to apply for a parental order again in affect adopting again. Would this also mean that I need to do the same for our Irish nationality and apply again to adopt for the Irish side of it? It all seems a bit much having to do it 3 ways

But I am not adopting a foreign child since I am South African and my other daughter is South African still too.

Ultimately I dont think I will be in the Uk for the first six months and then a parental order time would be over. So maybe my only option will be to keep the child as South African as my dependant and apply for an Irish passport too. The child can then be Irish and South African and not have it as British at all. Would this then solve the problem of a parental order??

Even if the child couldnt have Irish nationality as I havent really looked into this then I would just have it as a south african child as my dependant like my other child and not apply for British nationality at all. This maybe my only option as I really cannot afford to have a huge expensive court case, surrogacy and 10 IVF cycles has cost enough.

My problem with getting legal advise is that I feel like no one really can help advise me in my specific situation. My lawyer in SA can only advise on SA law and an english lawyer will advise a british couple on what they need. And then I will need an irish lawyer to advise on the irish side. 

I dont really know what to do and feel the only option will be not to register the child as British at all and just give it the other 2 nationalities as if it is born in SA then it should keep that nationality and keep it as Irish. I just truly dont want to spend a fortune on a court case where it is not needed and I think a person can only have 2 nationalities anyway. Oh, I am so unsure. I have already paid for legal advise with my lawyer in SA and am aware of the legal situation regarding international surrogacy in Britain and have made sure the contract I have with my surrogate in SA is within British law too.

I am just not prepared to spend a fortune so the child can be British. If that is the case then I wont register the child as British. I am so unsure of what to do. I will most likely call you for a consultation nearer the time. Please let me know if you have advised on a similar situation, but I really feel the costs of needing a barrister ect leaves me no option but to keep the child as south african only or irish and south african.

Very unsure of what to do.

Thanks so much for your reply and help.


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## NatGamble

Hi Shell

These are complicated questions, and we would be happy to help.  We advise lots of clients in multi-national situations and, while we can only advise on the English law aspects, we very often work with foreign lawyers so we can piece together the whole jigsaw for you (we are quite used to it!).

I think the main thing is to focus on the practicalities - will you be able to get the necessary papers to bring your child in the UK?  will you be able to care for him/her legally here without social services getting involved?  These issues will impact on you directly in practice, and I would suggest are critical to your plans unless you intend to remain in South Africa.

I hope that's helpful.  I know this can seem like a bit of a nightmare, but working out exactly what issues you need to deal with is key.

Natalie


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## nevergiveup1

Just incase anyone ever read this thread, I am putting the solution on here as I have taken advice.

I live in the Uk mostly but also have a home in South africa, I am south african and british and have a business in South africa, spend a lot of time in south africa, a few months every year, I have bills there and am paid a salary there and do most of my medical treatment there, dental check-ups etc.

I recently took advise on a separate issue and in this came the answer. I spoke to an immigration lawyer about my husband adopting in SA and whether it would be recognised in the UK, etc. 

If you read the advice on the home office website it says that foreign adoptions are not often recognised in any cases including surrogacy as u would need to do an intercountry adoption. However this is not the case if you are HABITUALLY RESIDENT in the country.

In my case I am habitually resident in the SA and SA is a designated country and therefore when I adopt in South Africa, I can register my child as British and the adoption would be recognised in the UK and therefore I will not need a parental order at all.

You have to be able to prove habitual residence.

It has been so hard to find out the information that I thought I would post the solution to my problem.


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