# Awkward "friendship"



## Bangle21 (Dec 17, 2004)

Hi girls,

I wonder if any of you could give me some advice.

After TTC for 6 years, I have just this year, experienced for the first time, losing a friendship to all of this.

This was a friend of over 10 years, (she was my bridesmaid!!) and when we were younger, we had a great laugh together going out to pubs and clubs.  Then she married one of my hubby's friends, so we all used to go out together sometimes which was nice.

However, over the years, she said and latterly, did some really hurtful things (to do with my IF).  I used to just put up and shut up but there came the final straw in January this year, when I vowed never to call her again.  (I won't bore you with the details)  She was basically extremely insensitive to my IF not once, but over and over again.  For instance, her hubby said to us, " I don't know why you're thinking of adoption, they'll just f**k off and leave you one day anyway ........"  They have 2 babies now.

Anyway, since then, I've had no contact from her and I haven't contacted them either.    However, to my surprise, I have just opened a Christmas card from her:

1.  Its a KIDDIES one - with disney characters all over it!! (Am I being over sensitive?)
2.  It says to "Gillian" ..... she used to call me "Big Gill!!"
3.  It says, "From Marie and Paul" - she used to write "Love & Hugs" and all that .....

Points 2 and 3 I can understand given the circumstances.  I would LOVE to know what she's thinking.  The thing is, she knew we were doing IVF again in March but given the no contact, she has no idea if we now have a baby or not (obviously we dont).  She doesn't know about my miscarriage OR my failed 4th IVF.

What should I do - should I send her a card back given it's Christmas?  

I feel there's too much water under the bridge to repair the friendship but maybe I should just send a card as a good gesture  Or maybe it's best just to cut the ties altogether as I really don't have any plans to call her again.

Any ideas

Thanks girls,
A confused friend.  (Gill)
xo


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## lisac (Mar 22, 2002)

Hi Gill 

I could relate to your post as this happended to me with a best friend who is still also my next door neighbour.  We used to go out everywhere and nights out and popping in and out of each others houses.  The 2 hubbies used to go to the pub and footie together.  Then she got pg and couldnt actually have the guts to tell me until she was about 4 months gone with scan photo.  She just avoided me and more or less cut all ties, when we were with them, and they new we were getting treatment at the time made moronic comments about why do we want kids anyway? They didnt understand why I wanted put myself through IVF, but basically we had no choice.  Comments are hurtful and its their ignorance to the subject makes it come across as if they are complete morons.

I guess as your friend has sent you a card, its nice to be nice and maybe you should just send a card back. And with that it will remind her of what a great friend you are still keeping in touch despite everything you have been through.  Maybe with that she will give you a call.  If she doesnt then at least you know you have been a good friend. 

Im sorry If I have babbled on a bit here.  I truly hope your dreams come true. 

Good luck 

Lisa 
xxxxx


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Hi Gill and Lisa
I think Infertility just doesn't bring the loss of not being able to have children, but it also brings losses in other relationships...I cannot believe how going through IF can bring out so many issues its a wonder we are all sane..
A difficult one Gill....as you know i went on the workshop and i started to explore all aspects of my life and the one area that i felt sad and guilty about was friends and Family...
The positive conclussion i came to was ' i did the best i could at that given time'...I thought if the shoe was on the other foot how would they have dealt with this situation. So Gill do not be so hard on yourself you did your best...You cared and you felt disappointed alongside everything else that you are going through...another added pressure you just do not need...
The sad thing is we want our friends to be there for us and if they are not its a huge disappointment and it hurts to the core..But maybe now can you start to accept that maybe the friendship was not as deep as you thought..Maybe she has changed but you are still good ole Gill but happened to be going through a crap time..
We have distant friends and send them Christmas cards, can you send one thinking about it in that vain...that she was a friend, a now distant one but hey it christmas and just send it...the other thing is once its gone who cares?? you may feel its a weight off your mind, however she did think of you, but she was never sensitive in the first place..so no surprises there with the type of card she sent...
Love Astridxx
p.s i must be getting horrible to be honest Gill i just throw them in the bin now and i feel good...ooops


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## lucysmith (Oct 12, 2004)

I had an old school friend and over time we grew apart because we had nothing in common and didn't even have the same opinions on things. In the end she just was no fun to be around. Gradually I lost contact with her. The last time I got an email from her I ignored it. If I was you I wouldn't bother returning the Christmas card. If your friend makes you feel bad and she's no fun to be around anymore then I would end the friendship and move on. The Christmas card she sent sounds to me like she wants to be on the moral high ground and also she is probably being nosy about what has happened since she last spoke to you. 

If it was me I would go with Astrid and rip the whole card up and chuck it. It might make you feel really good!


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## Bangle21 (Dec 17, 2004)

Thanks  Lucy, Astrid and Lisa

Lucy, You've hit the nail on the head.  As my Mum said, it sounds like she's only sent it so she "cant say she didnt try"   There was absolutely NO warmth of feeling in the words she wrote and she was only being selfish to the end, to make herself look good.

As you say, she's only being nosy.

I have decided that sometimes, less is more - so I wont be sending one back.  I will just let her "wonder" how I am since she didn't even call to see how I was with the IVF in February and she doesn't even know I had another one later in September so as far as she's concerned, I could have a baby by now.  

She has hurt be so much over the years with her massive insensitive comments .  For example, on one occassion, when she knew I'd been TTC for about 3 years and was waiting for TX, she  came over to my house announcing her pregnancy and not only brought her diary entry of the day she fell pg but her positive PG test kit to show me.  I hugged her, screamed for her, brought out the CAVA and when she left , I howled the whole day.  

I'm fed up putting on a brave face when she hurts me and too much water has gone under the bridge to repair the friendship so I have decided to end it.

Many, many thanks for the words of advice from you all.
Merry Christmas my friends,
Gill xo


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## lucysmith (Oct 12, 2004)

Gill27 said:


> ... she came over to my house announcing her pregnancy and not only brought her diary entry of the day she fell pg but her positive PG test kit to show me.


Wow. Some friend, eh? Some people only feel good themselves when they are stamping all over other people. Good luck to her and her child. Hopefully being a mum might help her think about people other than herself.

The friend I had sent my one of those 'here's a picture of my baby, isn't she cute?' emails shortly followed by a nosy email about whether I was going to just leave it up to nature or go for ivf. I think with these types of friendships it can sometimes take tough events in your life for you to realise that the friendship is not as good as it once might of been and that you aren't really helping each other. Getting rid of destructive friendships is definitely a step in the right direction for our own self confidence and sanity!


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## Bangle21 (Dec 17, 2004)

Thanks again Lucy

I agree.  Isn't it funny that by just reading my posting, you can read more into the type of person my "friend" actually is sorry was?!!!

I think you are so right about finding out who your real friends are when times are tough.  I'm also so fed up of people sending me e-mails with their bouncing babies plastered all over them.  It's SUCH a stab in the heart.  

That same friend of mine, also sent me photos of her baby through the post ......... I put them in the fire ..... oops ....... but it felt good.

NOW I have the strength to say goodbye to her.  She really only did send me that card because she was on her moral high ground.  What about the calls she could have made when she knew I was doing at least one more IVF - nope - not a dickie bird.

Thanks so much for your support, it is great to know we are not being selfish, we are only protecting our sanity and our dignity and it is SOOOOO good to know that you girls understand.

Thanks again
Love Gill


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## coxy (Aug 4, 2005)

HI Gill,
I was very interested to read your posting, as Ive just had a similar experience.  In the last company I worked for, I got on well with lady called Sandra, she was a couple of years older than me, but she had been trying to get pregnant for years, had an attempt at ivf, which resulted in twins that she miscarried and she was also diagnosed with severe endo, so we were very similar and we understood what the other was going/gone through.  We spent alot of time together socially and our husbands got on ok as well.  In the summer of last year, her marriage broke up, and I was made redundant and she vowed that we would always be good friends and keep in touch.  I offered her a shoulder to cry on about her marriage and she basically spurned all her close friends for 1 other friend that none of us realised she was close to, but I made a real effort, ringing her, emailing her, trying to arrange nights out.  We've  been out socially once since May, and we all met up (work mates) for a meal in July and she sat next to me and near enough ignored me all nite, I felt so uncomfortable that I couldnt wait to get away.  She knows Ive recently been in for another lap, but she hasnt bothered to find out if it went ok or not, she never returned any emails, so ive basically given up on her, it was my b'day on Tuesday and she sent me a card saying "To Julia, Happy Birthday From Sandra", like you said, there was no warmth in it and I dont know why she bothered to send it, needless to say, I got great satisfaction throwing it in the bin.  She didnt even bother to post it on time! I just cant be bothered with it all now, and she is someone I will definately be striking off my xmas list!

We don't need friends like these!

Love
Julia x


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## Bangle21 (Dec 17, 2004)

Thanks Julia and I'm sorry you've had to experience the hurt from someone you regarded as a friend.

You hit the nail on the head.  Why did she send it?  What did she hope to achieve?  Especially as she's ignored you for so long.  As Lucy said earlier, I think these people really are just getting on their moral high ground so they can't say "they never tried!!" Ha - what a joke!!

I am just so lucky I've found all the girls on here.  I would come to them now for support before going to many of my old friends.  

And as for Marie ....... like you with Sandra - enough's enough.

All that matters is you and your husband.  

Well done for having the strength to bin ungenuine "friends" and look after yourself for a change!

Merry Christmas
Love Gill xo


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## coxy (Aug 4, 2005)

Hi Gill,
I think infertility makes you stronger, as you sometimes feel you are being messed around, and you suddenly get to the point, that you're not going to stand anymore s**t!

I feel very isolated from my relatives, (except my mum), as my cousins have all had kids, aunties had grandkids etc, and they dont seem to understand what it feels like, my cousin Sonia is really good, and we regularly look after her daughter whose 6 and got CF, ive looked after her most weekends since she was a year old.  But the other lot exclude us from alot of stuff as we havent got kids and it also makes me feel sorry for my mum, as if I can't give her grandkids, she'll never have them, as my brother died young.

I use to be a person who bottled up stuff, and now if someone annoys me, 8 times out of 10, i speak my mind, but something did upset me yesterday that i havent been able to approach the person about yet, but i'll bide my time and will get the chance to say it, my uncles girlfriend, Helen, its her b'day a few days after mine, so I made sure she'd got her present and card in time, it was my b'day tuesday, and I didnt get a card from them, so asked my mum and apparently Helen had brought me a card ages ago, couldnt rememeber where she had put it, so said she wasnt going to bother getting another card! Charming!

I had a massive fall out with Sandra about a year ago and things had never really been the same after that, we basically had a fall out over a workmate who got pregnant. 

Im looking forward to bining the xmas card when/if it arrives, but im just not looking forward to bumping into her in the street!

Merry Christmas 

Love Julia x


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## AlmaMay (Oct 15, 2004)

Dear Gill,

Thanks for bringing this topic up.  I'm glad to hear that you decided not to send a Chrismas card to that woman.  I would have been just as upset as you sounded if I was in the same position.

Reading everybody's posts I've just realised how glad I am that I did some 'spring cleaning' of one particular friend this year.  It's such a relief!!!!  And I've only just thought about how happy it makes me not to brace myself for something stupid coming out of her mouth everytime we speak.  

This old friend lives on the west coast of the States so I don't see her much anyway but she would call when she needed to talk or basically when ever she wanted something.  The cow called this past April because 'she was having a hard time in her first trimester' for her second child.  Her call was one day out from the anniversary of my miscarrage, not that she remembered.  I sent her an email saying I was finding my struggles with IF very, very difficult.  No reply.

Then she called to leave a two messages after the bombs in July.  I didn't call her back but sent her another email saying I was OK (apparently there was someone on American telly that looked like me in the news stuff, I got a lot of calls).  In my email I said I was hurt that she never replied to my email and she forgot my 40th birthday.  I got this abusive email back trying to justify herself and she even said 'your maternal needs are not greater than mine'  What a B*TCH!  She has a child, is pregnant with her second and knows I've been trying to start a family for 11 years and says that!  I don't even really know what it means.  How Bizzar!  I told her I didn't want to speak to her again.  

And now...

I don't ever have to talk to her again.  I don't have to sit and wait for her uncaring, crule and stupid remarks that used to hurt me.  

   

I only wish I had done it sooner.  But, like you women, I was brought up to be a nice person so I'm going to stop blaming myself for being a good friend to her when she wasn't a good friend to me.  

Thanks girls,
Almamay


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## coxy (Aug 4, 2005)

Hi AlmaMay, 
Gill certainly has started a good topic here!

My last ever correspondance with my "good friend" was after I was made redundant and an old workmate emailled me to say "Did Sandra tell you that David's wife had died of cancer and that the funeral was last week?", apparently Sandra had told this workfriend that she would contact me and tell me about David's wife dying and she hadnt bothered, so I sent a card to David, but felt quite sorry that I had to send it after the funeral, so I emailled Sandra and asked her why she hadnt told me about David's wife and she said she had been busy decorating at home!!! I told her I was embarrassed at having to send a card after the funeral and she never apologised, so I think that was the start of the end.

Its strange because you class these friends as good friends and then realise that they never were!

Love
Julia x


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## suzy (Oct 12, 2003)

Hi Gill,

Rather than guessing how she feels and imagining her guessing how you feel, there is a way to approach it that could give a win-win.

Its just that this girl has been your friend for ten years, and even your bridesmaid, so she can't be all bad. But she has obviously been repeatedly thoughtless, hurtful and lacking in empathy over your IF - but despite this you have remained friends for a long time, so their must have been somegood things about your relationship.  I wonder what would happen if you told her honestly how things had been for you, how hurt you feel and how her insensitivity had upset you and made things harder for you. 

She might just be devestated at that, and an opportunity might arise where your relationship could deepen, and become more honest and caring on her part, with a willingness to listen about how things are for you.  But she might not.....in which case you haven't lost anything as you have pretty much given up on her anyway. If you don't let her really know how you feel (and I mean really sock it to her, no beating around the bush - but straight talking, not anger), then she will never have the opportunity to put things right  and you have missed the opportunity to really let her try and understand how her behaviour has hurt you.

Actually, reading through the lines, I think you do fear a loss of pride? But you could not be truer to yourself than by telling a friend how you really feel, and if it doesn't work then you can hold your head high.

I hope whatever happens that you stop hurting from this,

Suzy


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## AlmaMay (Oct 15, 2004)

Dear Suzy,

I don't think any of us would end a long standing friendship without already doing what you have suggested.  I have know my friend for 19 years, was her best maid (or whatever you call it) at her wedding and if DH and I hadn't eloped she would have been my best maid had we organised something more than going to the registry office with as few people as possible.

I was very clear and honest about what I was going through to try and help her understand what we were going through.  The more I tried to explain the more she came out with hurtful comments.  I believe that she thinks if she opened her heart to our pain and suffering and tried to understand then she thinks might catch IF.  She just really doesn't want to know and covers her anxiety with her uncaring remarks.  Her life is just too perfect (in her mind) and she has implied that our IF is my fault even though we are unexplained.  

I'm glad to have that kind of person out of my life.  I did try to explain for many many years but she didn't try to understand and like I said, a friendship has to be a two way street.

Almamay


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## coxy (Aug 4, 2005)

Hi Gill & AlmaMay,

Guess what I got today..............

A christmas card from Sandra, the so called mate!    She was wishing me and DH a very special xmas! 

Ooohhh, the satisfaction I got from DH calling her a false old cow and ripping it up and chucking it in the bin!!

One very good thing that came out of mine and Sandras relationship breakdown was that I stumbled across her mate (Lorraine) in Manchester posting on an endo website and we have been in touch eversince, and shes glad shes out of the relationship with Sandra as well (basically Lorraine left her husband as she wasnt happy in the relationship and sandra couldnt possibly see how anyone could leave their husband unless the husband was physically abusive!), but like they say, what goes around, comes around, as sandras husband left her!

Sorry, hope that last bit didnt sound *****y!

Love Julia x


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## Juniper (Dec 13, 2005)

Hello,

I would really appreciate your feedback on a friend or foe scenario. My friend Natalie and I have been friends for 10 years and I was bridesmaid at her wedding. She is a lovely person but has always had rather a lot on her plate.

She had a psychotic episode in her early 20s, probably as a result of her parents' very painful marriage and smoking too much dope. She fought back from it and is now healthy and happy with a lovely husband and two gorgeous children. She runs her own business and in many ways is very supportive and affectionate to her friends.

My problem is this: I feel I've been badly let down by her on two occasions in my life when I could really have done with her support. The first was just before her wedding. My partner of eight years and I split up. I tried to be very sensitive to her as she was about to get married and was already worried enough about her parents fighting at the wedding. So I sat her down and told her we had broken up but that we were very much looking forward to her wedding and would be coming together as we were still on very good terms, although we were finding the separating process very painful. I didn't expect her to engage with me about it until well after the wedding but the wierd thing is that to this day she has never mentioned my break up, never asked how I was coping. NOTHING.

Second let down is yes, you've guessed it, her reaction to my fertility problems. Same thing - she just ignores it. She did once send me an email with information about best times to conceive, which I know she meant kindly, but had she taken the trouble to ask she would have known that we are way beyond this stage.

I know I'm not blameless in the scenario. She came to visit me last summer just after I had been told (wrongly as it turns out) that me and DH had absolutley NO CHANCE of concieving EVER. I was desperate for her visit to have someone to talk to about it but when she arrived she announced she had just had a miscarriage. I tried my hardest to be sensitive and kind and listen to her, but inside I just felt angry that miscarriage is more recognised by the world as a bereavement while the grief of not being able to conceive at all is largely ignored.

She is a nice person and I don't want to hurt her, but I don't feel I can continue the relationship when she is so completely unable to enter into my life experiences. We've just grown apart I suppose. She has two young children, most of her other friends have babies and there doesn't seem any room for us anymore.

Do you think I should try to talk to her about it or should I just let it go? I don't feel like sending her a Christmas card but if I don't - that will be it.

Thanks for your help.

x


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## coxy (Aug 4, 2005)

HI Juniper,
It seems quite a lot of us are having problems with friends and infertility.  I dont really know what to say, I know what I would do if it was me, because ive just done it! My so called friend sent me a b'day card and then an xmas card, ripped them both up and chucked them in the bin.  Shes hurt me so much that I dont want her friendship and can live quite happily without it.  Yes we had some good times and had a good laugh together, but she was never a proper mate, she called all the shots and it was always on her terms, looking back on it, she was very controlling. She knew ages ago I was going in for my 4th lap, but shes never contacted me to find out how it went, or how the adoption is going. I tried to talk to her about it, but she just became very defensive about it and it ended up with us exchanging heated emails and i havent spoke to her since.

I think sometimes, if people have never experienced fertility problems, they dont tend to broach the subject with you, they probably dont know what to say, or they are probably afraid you are going to burst into tears.


The decision is yours about the xmas card, but if the relationship isnt working, isnt it best just to bow out of it gracefully?

Love
Julia x


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## Juniper (Dec 13, 2005)

Good for you Julia. Spring cleaning dead weight out of your life must be scarey, but very benefical too. I think you're all brave to do it.

And I think you're right about bowing out gracefully - it's probably the right thing for me to do. It's so depressing persevering with a friendship that is dead in the water.

Thanks for feedback, and very good luck with the adoption process. That must be a whole other emotional roller coaster and I hope you feel you have good people around you who are supporting you.

 I am cheering for you.

Very best wishes

Juniper


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## coxy (Aug 4, 2005)

Hi Juniper,
I went round the house the other day chucking out stuff Sandra had brought me, it gave me great joy!  I persevered with Sandra for so long as I believed id be lost without her and kept hanging on, waiting for her to contact me, which she never did.

Thanks about the adoption, its a very long slow process, and we are only in the very early stages, so will just have to wait and see what happens! I have support from my some of my family members, but not many, as they have kids and dont seem to be too bothered that I dont, its hard sometimes, but then life is hard, no one said it would ever be easy! ive had 20 odd years of hitting brick walls, so im becoming quite use to it by now!

Love
Julia x


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## lucysmith (Oct 12, 2004)

I smashed a vase that the toxic friend I had bought me.


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## AlmaMay (Oct 15, 2004)

Toxic Friend!  I like that one Lucy.  

I've been getting rid of things as well from my old friend.  Most things were just completely inapropriate to my life.  

It is so liberating not having to look at those things and feel bad about myself.  I never realised how bad that relationship made me feel.

x,
Almamay (Katie)


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## coxy (Aug 4, 2005)

Hi Girls,
doesnt it feel good to throw/smash the stuff! 

Ive just got a photograph left that I had chucked in the bottom of the wardrobe, so when I get a few mins, I will seek it out and take great delight in ripping it into little pieces!

Julia x


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## lucysmith (Oct 12, 2004)

Crikey! I hope all this smashing, ripping and chucking out doesn't result in the UK needing to open a new landfill site!!


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## AlmaMay (Oct 15, 2004)

Most of the stuff given to me went to the charity shop.


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Ha Ha...i love your replies....
I have also done some things that ooops i did feel better afterwards....     
Letters, cards have gone in the bin...
Do you know to be honest i feel relieved that they are not in my life anymore. I only want to surround myself by friends who care...we share our friendship and thats what counts,..we see each other through the ups and downs...and stuff the rest....
Astridxxx


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## lucysmith (Oct 12, 2004)

My sentiments exactly, Astrid!!   

Lucy
xxxx


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## emcee (Apr 3, 2005)

Gill, I know what I would have been tempted to do with the card your 'friend' sent you...  used it to wipe away my woes (if you get my drift) !!!

She sounds doolally  to me hon!  

Hope you had a good crimbo anyways

Love 
Emcee xxx


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