# Feeling hopeless



## pennyp (Mar 17, 2013)

Hi, this is the first time I've ever posted, although I've been lurking on the site for ages, reading other people's posts. I'm 42 and a half, husband is 43. We've been ttc for five years and have no living children. I lost my son three months ago, he was stillborn at 30 weeks. It was our third IVF attempt. He had a rare non-age related condition for which they haven't been able to find a cause. I also had a missed miscarriage one year prior, due to Down's syndrome.
Due to my age I've got no choice but to start ttc again asap (although in an ideal world I know I should be taking time out to grieve for my little boy). We're looking towards IVF in March. This time we're going for PGS to at least try to exclude common chromosomal abnormalities. I'm not at a stage where I'm ready to go for DE, but I'm not ruling it out as a future option.
I'm feeling so hopeless right now. Every attempt seems to take out so much time when I'm fast running out, against a deafening biological clock. The PGS consultant is so negative it's unreal, and it's just making me feel a million times worse. He has indicated that at my age he doesn't even expect me to get to blastocyst stage, which feels so unfair given that we had a good response to the last two treatment cycles (albeit over a year ago now, and not resulting in full-term healthy pregnancies). I'm feeling so heartbroken, hopeless and desperate right now. I've always wanted children and  been very conscious that time is limited, but met my husband late in life.
Do other people encounter such negativity from their health professionals? Does anyone get a positive message at this age, or have positive stories to share? This ttc journey is all too much now, my husband doesn't even know how to support me anymore.  I really need some hope right now please because everything feels so desperately bleak with no light at the end of the tunnel at all x


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## bundles (Jul 16, 2011)

Oh honey I just want to give you a huge hug  and I'm so, so sorry for the loss of your little boy. I can't really help you regarding any positivity using OE as I had to go straight to DE, but it certainly isn't a poor option !! 3 day transfers are not to be sniffed at either - my two are currently 'in discussions' as to who is having the red car  You don't say what your AMH is, have you had it measured ? Realistically being over 40 doesn't give you great odds with OE but there are plenty of threads with advice & ideas, like mild or natural ivf:
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=535.0
I'm sure other ladies will be along shortly, although the weekend can be pretty quiet.

Bundles x


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## cosmopolitan4112008 (Oct 18, 2013)

My deepest and most sincere condolences for your loss! You are such a strong person that you find strength to continue with this ivf journey. I applaude you for that and dont let anyone tell you that you are a hopeless case! First of all, women do get pregnant in their 40s. Look at that ex Spice Girls Gerry H, gave birth at 44 and for sure her life wasnt the healthiest. If that doctor is so negative, change him. You dont need such one. Also, if you want to have a genetic testing, it would be better to be tested when they are blastocysts because day 3 testing isnt reliable. Finally,it is unlikely that your precious mc was because the child had a D. Syndrome. My friend was 2 months pregnant when she suffered a mc. Upon testing the embryo,they discovered that he had D. Syndrome,but then, when she was tested, it was discovered her immune system was overreactive and nk cells were too high.so, check yourself fpr thst before another transfer.
I wish you a successful pregnancy soon!


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## deblovescats (Jun 23, 2012)

Penny - so sorry for your losses. I feel for you. I sincerely wish you luck in your journey. I can't offer any advice re: OE as due to my age when I started tx, I went straight to DE like Bundles. I had always wanted to meet my soulmate but he didn't appear in time, so went to try for a baby by myself. I really wished I could have done OE, but as I was funding myself on my own, went straight to DE as wanted the best chance of a healthy baby. It doesn't mean you can't get one with OE in your 40s but obviously the odds aren't great. I agree about your consultant - you are paying the clinic, so you don't need such negativity, even though you need to know the true statistics. I think you have to get to the point of being ready to go down DE route, but don't rule it out or think of it as second best. It can be the answer if you are ready. It vastly increases the chances of having a healthy baby, but obviously no guarantee.
I went down the double donor route and now have a boy of 2 1/2 and a new baby girl of 13 weeks. I feel so blessed. I would not change them for the world, as far as I am concerned, they are my babies and no one else's.
Go for it whichever way you decide to go for it. Don't feel helpless, you can take control. My babies were 5 day blasts and the little girl was a result of a frozen embryo transfer. I also have 2 blasts frozen.


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## Syd72 (Sep 15, 2016)

Firstly I want to say I'm so incredibly sorry for your loss.

Also wanted to let you know I've just had my first ever round of ivf and of 8 eggs fertilised one made it to blast and two made it to day 4, I've just turned 45, so it most certainly is possible to go to blast. I had et last Wednesday.

I had my treatment at Oxford Fertility Unit and whilst they were realistic about my chances they were also absolutely lovely.

If you feel like it have a browse on the "over 45 with own eggs" thread. There are a few of us in there that joined when we were under 45 and it's a very friendly thread and there are some really experienced and knowledgeable ladies on there. 

Very best of luck.


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## Lily0750 (Aug 1, 2015)

Sorry about your loss Pennyp.
After failed IVF at CRGH, my ex-colleague was offered to do next cycle with PGS. She was 40 and they collected over 20 eggs.
I guess it depends on patient's AMH/FSH and how many eggs can be collected.
My ex-colleague seemed to be happy with the treatment at CRGH.


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## pennyp (Mar 17, 2013)

Hello ladies, thank you so much for all your very kind messages! I'm really sorry I'm only just replying, I've had a series of meltdowns over the past few days, and trying to get back on track again now.

*Bundles* - thank you so much for your message , and thank you for sending me the link, I will check out the thread. I have never had my AMH tested, my IVF consultant mentioned it at one stage a couple of years ago, but seems to have decided against it since, not sure why. I haven't ruled out DE it just feels like a whole new huge mountain to climb and I'm not really sure how to start. Did you have success with DE yourself? I hope so xx

*Cosmopolitan 4112008 * - thank you so much, I will try to stay positive. I think you're right about the consultant. I have an appointment with him soon, and if I come away feeling dejected again I think I will look elsewhere for testing. 
I don't feel like a positive person at all I'm afraid, although it's lovely of you to say so. I just feel like I've got no choice at my age but to just keep going because I can't let go of my lifelong dream. It feels so desperately hard though xx

*deblovescars* - huge congratulations on having your two little ones!!! Thank you so much for sharing your DE story with me, it does definitely give me hope for the future. You were so strong going it alone, and I'm really glad it all worked out so well for you. Can I ask where you had your treatment? Was it in UK or abroad? How old were you when you had treatment? xx

*Syd72* - that's such great news that you've had such a good response to treatment! It really does give me some positivity to hold on to, I will have a look at Oxford Fertility Unit, I live within a commutable distance from there. I so very much hope it all works out for you... I will keep my fingers crossed, and, if you feel able to, please do let me know how you get on . Sending you lots of positive wishes  xx

*Lily0750 * - thank you for your message, it is good to hear about your ex-colleague. I will check out CRGH, thank you xx


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## StrawberrySundae (Jan 30, 2017)

Penny I'm so sorry and sending you a really big  

I lost my little boy at 20 weeks a few years ago due to PPROM and have had several MCs since then. So sorry you got as far as 30 weeks. 

I'm also 42 and have 1 own egg cycle left and then if it didn't work would have to go for DE, but like you I'm not ready yet. It's so lovely to hear how happy other ladies are with their babies and it clearly doesn't matter where the egg comes from in the end. 

All my eggs have gone to blast (not that I have loads!), but I know it can be more difficult over 40. Some people are lucky at this age (lots of over 40 examples here) and others have to try other methods. I'd definitely have as many tests as you can to rule things out & see if anything extra would help suppprt a future pregnancy.

I'm sorry feel you don't have much time to grieve, I hope you find your own way - but in a way it helps to be busy and make plans. You won't ever forget your little boy and I'm sure he'd want you to go ahead and be happy  

Wishing you lots of luck xx


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## bundles (Jul 16, 2011)

Hi Pennyp  

Yes, my successes were with DE. My DD was a first time success of a fresh 3DT of 2 embies. My DS was a single 3day FET, after the fresh 3DT was a BFN. So I guess you could say I got lucky 2 out of 2 cycles !!
DE isn't a golden ticket but for us oldies it can often be the answer. My reasoning was that if I would consider adopting a child then why couldn't I 'adopt' an egg   At least then I could grow it, feel its kicking, give birth and feed it. For me it was a no-brainer. And to be honest, given my time again, I would now refuse OE as it would mean that I wouldn't have my two beautiful children, and I couldn't imagine my life without them.

xx


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## Nicnik (Feb 17, 2016)

Hi PennyP,

So very sorry for the loss of your son and everything you have been through - I can't begin to imagine how difficult that must have been.  Sending you lots of cyber hugs.    

I am 41 and recently had OE IVF with a clinic in Spain - we got 8 eggs, out of which 7 fertilized and 1 made it to Day 5 blastocyst stage.  Although we were a little disappointed that we only got 1 to Day 5....as everyone always says, it does only take 1!   We did PGS testing on our blasto and thankfully the result was chromosomally normal, which greatly reduces the risk of miscarriage.  I will be going for transfer in a few weeks time, so I'm keeping absolutely EVERYTHING crossed.  

Like you, over the few years I have been having IVF treatment, I have encountered some negative (or thoughtless) comments, from people I know and in the medical profession and it is frustrating, especially when we know from this Forum that there are many women who have healthy babies into their 40s and that's just on here, there will be thousands more that we don't even know about.  I think they mean well, but it comes across as very thoughtless at times and upsetting.  Regardless of these comments though, I am determined to make my dream come true! 

Good luck with your next cycle.  

Sending lots of love. xxx


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## BB41 (Nov 16, 2016)

Hi, I am nearly 42 but my amh level is low too. I am doing natural modified ivf which is supposed to work better for older ladies and is certainly cheaper and less hard on the body (making it easier to do more cycles quickly). I have been given a very low chance of success and encountered a lot of negativity (even the counsellor I saw just kept telling me to consider donor eggs!). I wanted to tell you there is a thread on the low amh board where people have posted their success against the odds stories. It cheers me up when I'm feeling hopeless. I think it's called 'pregnant with low amh'. Some amazing miracle successes. I got to blastocyst on my first attempt with only 1 egg collected- although it didn't work. You are not a statistic! So sorry for your loss and hope you are able to find a way to heal while moving forwards x


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## deblovescats (Jun 23, 2012)

Penny - good luck. I decided to go for a clinic in the UK because it was logistically easier re: travel and I also wanted the chance of the children finding out about the donor if I decide to tell them. My successful cycles were at CARE Sheffield - there are lots of CARE clinics and satellite clinics all over UK, and I am obviously highly satisfied with them. I was 45 when I started treatment at LWC Darlington where cycle failed. I had a break and then went for treatment at CARE at 46, was 47 when I gave birth to DS and was 48 when had my FET cycle, 49 when had DD. 
Bundles - I totally agree about DE - I was also considering adoption if IVF had not worked so was relaxed about genetic origin. I feel that my darling children would not be 'them' if not DE. I wanted the experience of being pregnant and giving birth to them, and also to be able to raise them from birth, which is not always the case if adopting. As an older single mum, I would not have been matched with a baby if I'd adopted. 
To reassure ladies worrying about DE, I don't even give it a thought now, though obviously I did when I started tx.


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## pennyp (Mar 17, 2013)

Hi ladies, thank you for all your messages... xxx

*Strawberry Sundae* - I'm so very sorry to hear about the loss of your son at 20 weeks, and your miscarriages. It's absolutely devastating to lose our desperately wanted babies. 
It is heartening to hear that all your cycles have gone to blastocyst, I'm just so sorry that it hasn't yet worked out the way you had hoped.
Thank you so much for your kind words about my little boy, I got tearful when I read them! I do feel incredibly guilty for ttc again so soon after losing him, but at my age I have no choice. Thinking that he would want his mummy to be happy helps a lot though, thank you  xx
I wish you all the best of luck with your next cycle, I desperately hope that our dreams will finally come true for both of us.
Stay strong, sending you lots of positivity  xx

*Bundles* - Congratulations on your two little ones! That's great news !!! I'm so glad that you had such great success with DE. It's really good to hear of such positive outcomes with DE, and I do definitely understand what you mean by DE vs adoption. Can I ask, did you have treatment in the UK or abroad? xx

*Nicnik* - Thank you for your lovely message    
It's such good news to hear that you have reached 5 day blastocyst stage, and that you've come through PGS testing . Absolutely, it does only take one!!! I'm sending you lots of hugs, wishing you the very best of luck  xx

It really does make me angry when the medical profession are so negative about women over 40. It feels like they are often too quick to be dismissive. Whilst I understand that they have a responsibility to make us realistic about our chances, as you say there are an awful lot of women out there in their 40s having children, so it would be nice if medics were to acknowledge this and curb the negativity a bit, rather than (in my experience) blaming my age for everything.

Anyway, the very best of luck for a few weeks time, I hope it all works out for you, and if you feel able, please do let me know how you get on  xx

*BB41* - Thank you for your message. I'm so sorry you've had to deal with a lot of negativity too. It does often feel (from my experience at least) that we're treated as a statistic when over the age of 40, rather than individual, and it's incredibly frustrating to say the least. 
Thank you, I will check out the low amh board, hearing other people's successes helps to feel a bit more hopeful. It's great to hear that you got to blastocyst stage, I'm so sorry to hear it didn't work out though.
I wish you the best of luck for your next attempt, and I hope both our dreams come true  xx

Hi *deblovescats*, wow what a fantastic story! I'm so pleased that your dream finally came true and that you got your two beautiful children!

It's great to hear that you had such a good experience at CARE, I have been considering going with them if my current PGS consultant remains so negative about my chances. I feel I really need some hope right now if I'm to keep on going whilst still grieving for my son. We have booked to attend an open day with CARE in a couple of weeks' time..

Can I ask, was there a long waiting list for DE? And how much info are you given about the donor?

It's really lovely to hear that things have worked out for you, and that you have now got the family you dreamed of xxx


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## bundles (Jul 16, 2011)

I went to Madrid x


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## deblovescats (Jun 23, 2012)

Penny - I only had to wait 6 weeks for a match so not long at all, but that was in 2013. I have a friend who has recently had embryo transfer with a donor at CARE Sheffield, and I think she only had to wait a couple of months. I also have a friend I met via FF who lives not too far away and she is currently waiting for a match. I think she went for a consult in November and is waiting at the moment.
Information I was given - basic details when being matched - height, hair and eye colour, blood group. However, I was surprised to find I was then sent pen portraits written by both donors which was lovely to receive - a message from both and they were both detailed about their interests. I think this depends on the donors though. I only found out egg donor's age after getting a BFP, she was an egg sharer and was 34. I understand from other posts on FF that clinics are supposed to give age before treatment, but not sure whether they do reveal this.


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## pennyp (Mar 17, 2013)

Hi *Bundles*, thank you for replying... can I ask if you were given much information about your donors? Was there a waiting list... and would you recommend going out of uk for treatment? xx

Thank you *deblovescats*, it sounds like you and your friend had really good experiences with CARE. It is lovely that both your donors sent you pen portraits, I think it would be nice to have had that sort of a connection with them. It's reassuring to hear that the wait wasn't long either. (I've been told that the waiting list for the clinic I'm current with is over a year). xx

I'm so pleased that everything you worked out so well for both of you ladies, and that your dreams really have come true xxx


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## StrawberrySundae (Jan 30, 2017)

Thank you Penny   I've come across Gennet clinic on this forum, in the Czech Republic, who have computer software that matches the most similar donor to you, plus you get additional information. I'm interested to find out more about that. It's nice to know there are other options and the other ladies here have been so helpful   Yes good luck to us   xx


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