# Any experience of haywire progesterone levels after failed cycle?



## Anners (Sep 26, 2007)

Hello all,

Wondered if anyone could offer any advice on the above.

Briefly, had a failed cycle Oct/Nov and looking to go for cycle number 3 this month. All set to do so after consultation, and told to check for the surge using home ov kits and come back for day 21 bloods to check ov, to then start d'regging if all in order. LP again, with a higher dose of stimms, plus IVIG etc. Told not to leave too long between cycles.

The issue is that despite Dec AF arriving bang on time, and making me think that all was well and that my body was back to normal, I couldn't detect a surge this month and the clinic checked my progesterone on day 16 (0.4!) and day 19 (5) and have called me in for another test tomorrow. E2 levels are just fine.(cycle varies 28/29 days). I think they like your levels to be at 30 to show ovulation.

I was initially worried that I'd miss the opportunity of starting this month, but now I'm more concerned about the very low progesterone levels on what this might mean for my long term fertility. Spent all day yesterday googling and worked myself into a tizzy about early menopause......

Really keen to hear if anyone has had any similar experiences.

Thanks

Anners
x


----------



## Happy Mummy (Sep 22, 2006)

Hi, if you have IVF , then the progesterone problem is not important as they give you extra progesterone and if BFP then your body cantake over.
It is more of a problem if you still try nat.
To have ovulation my GP said ithad to be 20 min.
Remember though, every month is different and all women have cycle when they don't ovulate.
Your progesterone levels have nothing to do withmenaupose as such as the reserve of egg is not measured with progesterone levels. The fact that your oestrogens levels are fine is a good sign, and also you have a good cycle length.

However after 35, sometimes women tend to have less progesterone as the ovulation is not always excellent and the egg quality also is a factor.
I am 41, had enough progesterone but very short cycle and progesterone drops too quickly. Apparently it can go on like this for another 10 years before menopause happens. 
I had 7 eggs at last IVF and 6 fertilsed. 2 months ago. My problem is more implantation.
Good luck,
Future Mummy


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

I had high progesterone levels when tested at the ARGC.  They didn't allow me to cycle for a couple months.  There is some research indicating that with high progesterone level at the beginning of the cycle there is a reduced chance of a pregnancy... I would try the LIster for your next attempt i/o wasting time testing at the ARGC if you are still with them as time is at a premium ....Good luck...


----------



## Anners (Sep 26, 2007)

Hi

Thanks for your replies. To let you know that I had another blood test yesterday on CD 22 and my prog was 56, which shows that something must have happened between Monday (when it was 5 on CD 19) and yesterday. They won't let me start cycling this month though, as I was told that something wasn't quite right, and I've got to hang on to get day 1 tests done again to see what's happened to my FSH etc. 

It will be interesting to see when AF arrives, as if its my usual 28 days, then ov seems pretty late.

So, its the usual waiting game.......I guess the dilemma will come if my FSH is raised as I know ARGC won't let you go with anything over 10.

Good luck to you both.

Anners
x


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

May I suggest that you have a consultation at the Lister and see how things are... I lost 4 months of testing at the ARGC and they wouldn't let me proceed not bcs of my fsh but bcs of my progesterone levels... You can't afford to waste time just testing from month to month.  It can take months on end... 

With a hindsight I would have gone to the LIster to save time.  They have equally good stats and are not so pedantic about hormones as the ARGC.  Also their cycle is about 6.5 k including drugs and blood tests and this is on full stimms.  And some people who have been unsuccessful at the ARGC have succeeded at the Lister.  We all fall for this myth that we must try the ARGC and they will somehow give us a baby.  ONce you hit 40 time is at a premium and it's a shame to waste a few months because of this....

All the best, Inc


----------



## Anners (Sep 26, 2007)

Thanks, Inc.

Praying that all ok with hormones, and that can start next month. If not, then I may indeed consider alternatives as I know that time is of the essence and I don't think I can just sit back and wait month on month.

I had such high hopes for the last cycle as I managed a chem preg at Care Northampton last Feb on a straight 225 menopur all the way and basically, very little monitoring. Total cycle cost was under 5k, plus clinic within 30 mins of home. ARGC cycle was twice that and a seriously gruelling regime. Drug dose was also double.Can't fault the care though and the attention to detail.

Just goes to show what a truly 'wonderful' lottery this is......

Anners
x


----------



## Happy Mummy (Sep 22, 2006)

I agree with Inconceivable so much!
Besides having a progesterone level of 56 is an excellent news. It means you have ovulated and it is really the best result you can have at that level.
I personnally think thet The argc is taking the p... 
Testing you day 16 , there is a good chance it will be minimal unless you have very short cycles ( which you don't!)
day 21 /22 is excellent for testing with a cycle of 28/29 days. 
The Lister is apparently excellent and I am thinking of going there for my last IVF. They are also cheaper . Besides treatment cancels your progesterone making "machine" as it regulates cycles with drugs which is why they give progesterone and then your body takes over when you have a BFP which it will have no problem to do with a day 22 level of 56!! so even if your progesterone levels were low ( which they are not) , it would not matter  at this stage , and you could always take a progesterone supplement for the first 2 months of your pregnancy. Besides if you had progesterone very low, then no clinic can increase it,it is the way your body is ( unless maybe you start accupuncture or herbs...which clinics don'tprescribe)so , why wait!! you said that your oestrogens levels are ffine. Also FSH does not decrease , it stays the same ( plus or minus one) from one month to the other , except of course when we go over 40 when it begins to increase steadily over the years. Why wait?
I believe from what you are saying you actually have good results and a very nice cycle length.
I hope you don't mind me being honest  
Future Mummy


----------



## Anners (Sep 26, 2007)

Totally appreciate the advice.

I was hoping to stay with them so they could build on what they learnt from the failed cycle. Added complication is that they will certainly push for IVIG this time due to raised NK activity - treated with steroids last time - and don't think the Lister subscribes to this?

The killer question at my review was ' how come with mega doses of stimm drugs, clexane, steroids and ritrodine, we actually 'achieved' less than the cheapie straighforward cycle at Care. No answer forthcoming - and I know its an impossible one to answer - but  does make you wonder what is all about.

I'll keep you posted.

Anners
x


----------



## Happy Mummy (Sep 22, 2006)

I think you answered your question!
I went to the Lister open evening on Monday ( once a month) and after presentation we could ask a few questions which I did  and of course the NK cells was one of them. I don't want to have any treatment regarding too high NKcells levels as I find it too controversial , buytthis is a personal choice
Howeverthis was the answer of the cons, who is the director of IVF at the Lister.
" we do it, we test and treat, but only if the person pushes for it after failed cuycles. I think that a minority of women may indeed have a high level thatmay affect results however it has not be proven that the treatment was making a difference. If it was all clinics would offer it. However we do offer it if this is something the patient feel strongly about it" ( obviously some words wre ea it differnt , as I can't remembr all of it, butthis was his answer!
They do use setoirds, if they have to, but don'tseem to push so much into drastic measure unless there is really a need for it. They do quite a lot of monitoring during cycle so that drugs dosage can be adressed if not optimal ( which I like) and they treat women over 40 too and have god results.
I tis also cheaper than the ARGC.
I have to have a lap next month , justhas some immune testing done 9 NHS) and then with all my results and a copy of my hospital file thatI requested last week, I will go for a private consult next month tosee this doc and see what he has to say for my case  

Don'tforget that with all the notes that your clinic has ( and you can request a copy) , any new clinic knows enough to learn from your other treatments and act upon it.

Future Mummy

Future Mummy


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Lister does Ivig, too.  I know some people who have cycled at the ARGC and then went onto the Lister and achieved a bfp.  I think daily bloods are frankly unnecessary.  Every second day would be enough.  It seems to be  a good way to lock you into buying medicines from them as well as 'your medication can change from puregon to merional from day to day' so you can't source your meds elsewhere anad they are quite expensive.  Also it saves on consultants' time to scan as he can learn from your blood result what he would othewise see on the scan, only the blood results are paid by the patient and scans' cost are a direct cost to the clinic.  

I am afraid I am becoming a bit sceptical here...  Yes, one seems to get more care, but then on the other hand, it's also a massive profit for the clinic if you do so many bloods cirka £1500 per cyclus and more with double bloods, which I have refused to have (still managed with no problem).  You can save quite a bit if you get a prescription and source your meds elsewhere.  Ali in Shadwell, e1 offers considerable savings...

The ARGC seems to throw everything at you and it works for some people but not for some others... 

If I could have my time back I would have gone to the Lister and wouldn't have wasted my time...  It was a personal recommendation that I had from my nurse and I stupidly fell for the stats and research...

Also one of the girls at the ARGC thread cycled there twice... First time round hand IVIG - no success, 2nd time round refused to have it and bingo - a bfp...
The best of luck anyway...


----------



## Anners (Sep 26, 2007)

Thanks-its always good to get a different perspective and to know that there are options. It's really easy to get drawn into one clinic and to think that only they can provide the miracle.

I'm certainly not going to hang around for perfect hormones.....so let's see that this months CD1 tests bring......

Take care and the very best of luck to you both.

Anners
x


----------



## Happy Mummy (Sep 22, 2006)

Anners, good luck and let us know how you get on!!!
Future Mummy


----------



## Anners (Sep 26, 2007)

Well, as you can see from the ticker, I'm back on the roller coaster........ heaven only knows what was going on with my cycle. 

D2 bloods were fine and started flare protocol yesterday - is so soon since the last one that it feels almost like a continuation, if you know what I mean.

So, its back to super early mornings, goodbye to weekend lie-ins and constantly waiting for 'the call'.

Maybe its good not to have the time to dwell and ponder, and I'm trying to stay as chilled as poss this time.

Take care

Anners
x


----------

