# Starting patches as soon as AF starts without being on pill first?



## Sally123 (Sep 8, 2005)

Hi girls
I wondered whether anyone has any thoughts on the following please: I am about to start a DE IVF cycle at IM Barcelona. I had planned to start tx on next AF (ie around 7th November) but then got worried that this could mean that ET is around the xmas period and wanted to avoid this, not least because we have a 5 year old and I thought it would not be fair on him to either be away or 'putting my feet up being boring' at such a busy, exciting time! So I emailed IM and they got back to me to say that if I am worried about risking ET at xmas, I could do one of 2 options:
1 Postpone starting tx till Dec AF
2 They may be able to organise my starting the patches at next week's AF. This seems a tempting offer but how would this work, would I still take the pill and start the patches both on the same day next week? And would I be risking them making a 'panic decision on my donor' and get a second grade one?!

Or would it be fine and a wise thing to do? Any thoughts or similar experiences gratefully received! (I'm new to fertility tx so not 100% aware of all the permutations and what is and is not a good route to take!)
Thanks all  
Sally xx


----------



## roze (Mar 20, 2004)

Hi,

I probably can't help much here except to say that  I don't think that you can start the Pill and patches at the same time. 

I take it that option 2 means bringing tx forward to November?

In my last cycle at ISIDA I was not put on the Pill,unusually,  but downregged on Synarel for two months before building up my lining. So the Pill is not always necessary.

I think you should pester IM for detailed answers to your questions- the question about the donor suitability will depend on how readily they can locate someone with your required characteristics and stimulate them for the cycle.

good luck


roze


----------



## Marina (May 14, 2006)

Hi Sally

They can do this if they have a donor who can start when you do I did it, they only place you on the pill at IM to synchronise you with the donors cycle, so if it were me, I would do it, because the pill can upset you, well it did me, good luck with your decisions.

Marina


----------



## three_stars (Jan 19, 2006)

HI
I am butting in here as I kind of have the same problem /question... and I am not new to this!  Thing is that I was put on this bcp, then down-reg injection , then building lining with estrogen type protocol with both of the last cycles.  The first one was fresh donor so would make sense to do to co-ordinate cycles... even though we ended up naturally only being one day apart from each other.  But the last cycle was a FET... so why does it really have to be a medicated cycle?  

Sally you have to ask your clinic for exact instructions and explanation . But generally I would say that they would just go with your natural cycle and skip down regging and just use patches to make sure the lining builds.  Like was said, this will work if you are regular for periods and ovulation and you have a donor on the same cycle ( she would likely be on the bcp  in order to co-ordinate with your cycle.
b123


----------



## hola69 (Nov 17, 2005)

Hi evryone,

this all confuses me..as Im am on nothing..no medication not even the pill..just my dostinex for galactoreah. My AF came today and I will have a day 2 scan, then and only then will AV prescribe me patches once they know my womb lining on day 2..must be their way..so just thought Id add in..not that it helps you Sally sorry..good luck and hope it goes ok,

Love Lelsey xxx


----------



## alison 5 (Aug 15, 2006)

hihi sally, i would say it sounds like they have a donor already lined up,
when we had our appointment back in early aug we said we would be
looking for treatment to start in oct after my 2nd period, i was asked
if i wanted to do it straight after my second period and they would synchronize
the donor to my period, even though my periods are as regular as clockwork
i was just a bit worried if for the first time ever it would be late, so 
we contacted them when my 2nd period started and they put me on the
pill then found a donor needless to say after coming off the pill.....no period
so i was wondering if the pill has mucked up my system.
i would contact IM as ask a few more questions.
alison


----------



## Sally123 (Sep 8, 2005)

Hiya girls! Thank you all so much for taking the time to reply   I will now email IM and ask for more details (they were closed today for a public holiday in Spain so I had a day's breathing space to gather advice and info from you wonderful lot!). Will ask the questions you suggest - though think if they say they have a donor in mind I will just go for it and start the patches next week, given that the pill doesn't suit everyone and waiting for AF to arrive post-coming off the pill has been a problem for you, Alison.
Thank you for your advice everybody, will keep you posted on this and the IM cycle buddies threads! 
Sally x


----------



## Marina (May 14, 2006)

Hi Sally

What I found with the pill is, my periods just kept on going  I bled for 12 days, when I went on eventually to build lining up, it wouldn't build very well, it was very thin and slow, so I told IM I didn't want to use the pill if it were possible, the last cycle my lining was much thicker without the pill, but like I said, the pill can upset your system, I have regular periods like a clock, just food for thought all this isn't it. Bonnie at IM all you do with frozen embies is build up lining have a scan on day 7-10 and if its over 5mm you go for transfer, no pill, only patches or in my case progynova, Dr Olivares has suggested I take progynova vaginally, he said it absorbs into the system quicker and more efficiently  so I have to go with what he advises.

Good Luck

Marina


----------



## three_stars (Jan 19, 2006)

Thanks for the info Marina

I really hated taking the bcp and years ago with all my fertility cycles I never used it ( I guess as it was my own eggs)  Each time AF as drawn on for days and even weeks longer.  An between the bcp, steroids and hormones I have gained 5-6 kilos  -- which makes me pretty bummed.. although in a way it makes me look PG at least  -  ha ha  


So  I spend the last few days trying to figure out if/ where I could get doner embryos for next cycle( non- medicated) ... they are not easy to get a hold of.. and then for matching?? who knows.  But then I forgot about this problem of passport expiring soon.  Maybe I should just forget it all until next year... have a big binge blow out  ( caffeine, chocolate and wine-  pretty exciting stuff right!!!  HA HA )  and then go on a " find my waist again" program until Christmas.  ANd maybe actually get a little work done and try to make some money..    

Decisions decision.
b123


----------



## Marina (May 14, 2006)

Hi Bonnie

I dont know if your interested but IM do donor embryos, it is much cheaper than a fresh cycle, of course these are frozen, donated from other couples etc, not sure of cost think its the same as a frozen ones of your own embies which is about 2800 euros approx, not cheap and the wait list is about 2 months or it was, thought I would just pass that info onto you, as they have a huge bank of embryos.

Good Luck

Marina


----------



## three_stars (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi  Marina 41.  Thanks for that info.  I will contact them as the donated ones from other couples may end up a closer match then a spanish donor.  Yikes 2800 euros.. and I thought FET was high at 1400 at Chania!  Guess donated only refers to the couples.. not in terms of the clinic...  Seems a shame that they make extra money from this.. when it is the couples that have donated and paid the initial price.  Well I guess nobody is a philanthropist  in this business are they


----------



## Marina (May 14, 2006)

Hi Bonnie

I know its not right really as you say, what a money making business this is eh, I was told by IM that they treat approximately 10 Patients a week from the UK alone, they must be multi millionaires by now  anyhow I hope you find the right path before xmas I know a lady who had donated embies and she got pregnant at IM, if you dont have no treatment until the new yr have a very merry one with lots of choccies and wine 

Best Wishes

marina


----------



## three_stars (Jan 19, 2006)

HI Marina,

Karin was really informative when she got back to me after my question about whether I could go straight into a cycle if their were frosties available. 
"A non-medicated cycle is possible although the chances of success are statistically lower. It won’t work after a cycle with Decapeptyl though. The bleeding patients get after a negative cycle is a withdrawal bleed after stopping the medication and the Decapeptyl could still suppress your hormones and cause you not to ovulate. Without ovulation you won’t produce progesterone and therefore it won’t be natural and the transfer can not be done as your lining won’t grow adequately and you won’t produce any progesterone. The best option is the whole medication regime again."

It is always nice when you get an complete answer and something you can feel confident about. 
Plus with the problems of my passport expiring soon... well just have to plan for in the new year now.  Feels like a long way away.  Was worrying about how I would do with a delivery in the heat of july August in Paris... now looking once again at winter.  maybe .
b123


----------



## Marina (May 14, 2006)

Hi Bonnie

Glad you have a plan ahead, its always good to have that after a BFN, I have always done this to help me stop feeling sorry for myself  on the subject of ovulation I have really noticed mine this month, since stopping meds on the 18th October which was 2 cycles of progynova and progesterone, my body soon picks up and goes back to his old routine without meds, very sharp left sided pain this month and sorry if (TMI) with a very egg white thick mucus, I never ever noticed it whilst on estrogen progy, do they stop you ovulating? on another note I see you mentioned about blood flow check to the uterus on another thread, I had this done the cycle before last, they put you on progynova at IM to do this, its a dummy cycle really, and then on day 19 I had a DOPPLER scan which showed good blood flow, I would recommend it because there is a drug they can prescribe to help if you have a problem called Pentoxifyline, I am seriously thinking of a hysteroscopy, with 4 failed ivfs with my own eggs and now 2 fresh DE cycles, but IM seem to think its just bad luck  maybe they are right but it wont hurt will it, anyway best of luck with your future cycle I hope to read soon you get a BFP.

Best Wishes

marina


----------



## three_stars (Jan 19, 2006)

HI
Just thought I would post the reply from my clinic. When I called back and said the HCG is still 8 4 days later and I stopped the meds, they siad I should do a DnC before the next cycle.. more then a hysterscopy as it would be good to have a "new" lining. Evidently the fact that the number stayed slightly positive indicated this... so I am going to research this a little. Funny thing was it was me that sent them a research article prior to my last FEt showing that in a study 2/3 of patients that had an endometrial biopsy had surprisingly gotten PG soon after! ( The study was NOT about pregnancy) Seems having the fresh area of new lining cells was the key here??

Well the good thing is at least I have something positive to try. I did get PG with DD only  right after I had had surgical removal of polyps in the uterus.. so maybe there is something to this. Any way that is my plans to look into now and work on finding good donors for Jan/ feb/march latest!!

b123


----------



## Marina (May 14, 2006)

Bonnie

You have a very good point there, because I always remember my mum telling me that a friend of hers, this was a long time ago mind, had a misscarriage and then a D N C, she got pregnant 3 months later and gave birth to a beautiful little girl, its like having a spring clean, food for thought eh?   out with the old lining in with the new  like yourself, I am always looking for answers.

Marina


----------



## three_stars (Jan 19, 2006)

Thanks Marina for the info about the dummy cycle. SOunds like we are both facing the same problem. I think you should also be thinking about a DNC or hysterscopy... thing is, it can't hurt.  Except in the wallet.  
b123


----------

