# Unfair?



## Mzmaary23 (Mar 18, 2013)

Am I the only one who seems to think its unfair with all the restrictions we have, we need to have our bmi under 30, no alchol, you can't smoke ( I don't drink or smoke) I know it helps your chances with ivf/icsi to conceive but look at the girls who her bigger than me, drink excessively, smoke the ones under weight, the druggies etc etc they all get pregnant so easy but the ones who actually want to be a mum, who can actually provide for a child, are the ones who don't seem to have any luck trying to conceive. Naturally, me and my oh have recently joined gym and now I read that some excerise is not good for sperm    I mean come on does it mean that to get pregnant we have to suck all the joy outa life,


----------



## goldbunny (Mar 26, 2012)

it's preparing you for the sacrifices you will have to make as a parent...compared to someone who got pregnant at the drop of a hat, if you have give stuff up to get there, well your child will be better looked after because you'll put them first more easily, you will understand that the world revolves around them not you. There is nothing that isn't worth it to reach your goal.


----------



## rosebud_05_99 (Apr 15, 2008)

Its crazy some of the regulations just another way of discriminating against those of us suffering infertility. Big hugs (((())))


----------



## Caz (Jul 21, 2002)

I must admit the whole selection criteria does seem unfair when you're not meeting the requirements. I fell at the first hurdle (DH had children from a previous relationship) so none of the rest of it was an issue. I did have to jumpt through some hoops though because the ony way I could afford treatment was through egg share. 

I do understand why there's a need to impose some selection criteria on us; many of the things they are asking (no smoking, drinking, weight within healthy limits) are things that have been shown to have an effect on fertility in general and the chances of IVF working. In a world where there's finite finances it makes sense to prioritise spending the money where it's most likely to succeed and where the patients are prepared to make the effort to work towards the greatest chance of success. It's a cold hard reality but, yes, seems unfair when so many can just conceive naturally while doing all the things they tell us not to do. 

The one I find particularly unfair is the BMI criteria. I recall being just under 30 when I cycled; I am 5ft 2 and quite muscular build but I was a size 12 when I did my IVF. I certainly didn't look  borderline obese or feel unhealthy. I'm just over 30 BMI now but, again, I started new exercising routines a couple of years ago and have been fitter than I have been before in my life. I actually put on some weight at the start because I was improving my muscle tone and mass and getting leaner and, of course, muscle is denser than fat but also uses more calories to maintain. My body fat percentage went from about 45% to about 39% in a few months even though I lost no actual weight at first. I think the BMI criteria is somewhat misleading since it does not give an overall view of how healthy and fit an individual is and, therefore not a great guide to how likely they are to have a successful cycle and pregnancy.


If it quite normal for you to feel a level of bitterness towards individuals who fall pregnant easily despite doing all the wrong things. One of the best pieces of advice another FFer gave me was to remember that it's not their baby that you want, but your own, and that you will be a more attentive parent because of your self awareness about how precious your baby is. 

C~x


----------



## Haydan (Oct 12, 2013)

> If it quite normal for you to feel a level of bitterness towards individuals who fall pregnant easily despite doing all the wrong things. One of the best pieces of advice another FFer gave me was to remember that it's not their baby that you want, but your own, and that you will be a more attentive parent because of your self awareness about how precious your baby is.


That's a great way to look at it and will help me a lot from now on!


----------



## Mrsball (May 10, 2013)

I'm feeling the exact same way!
DH and I are desperate to start a family and can provide a loving caring stable home yet we are slapped with this struggle. And like you it's taking over life. 
I love exercise and socialising. Yet both of them are being taken away from me at a time when I feel like I need them most to keep sane!
Life is so unfair. 
X


----------



## coweyes (Sep 4, 2008)

There are lots of things in life that are unfair, just because someone "fell pregnant" or got pregnant easily doesnt meant that their baby isn't also precious and just as wanted.  I think the further down the infertility road you go the more your sacrifice.  You dont have to give up anything, just check your lifestyle is healthy and make some moderations.  Eg still go out socialising with friends but only have a few drinks.


I know its blooming hard but try thinking about it the other way, that your greatful that assisted conception is there and that it makes sense to try to do everything possible to help the odds of it working.


Caz iv never really understood why its a point blank no if you or your partner already has a child, why doesnt the nhs just suggest you pay half? or an i completely off the mark with that.  Just makes sense to me one of you is lucky enough to have a child so just pay 50%.


xxxxx


----------



## goldbunny (Mar 26, 2012)

i think everyone should get one free go, regardless of other children or not. Nobody does ivf for fun!


----------



## Josie1 (Sep 30, 2013)

I don't think the guidelines are unfair expect penalising women if there partner has another child. 

I agree with no smoking, restrictions on drinking and BMI. They want the best for you and the baby. I'm almost 30 BMI, bottom line for me is I need to loose weight. 

Just my opinion though x


----------



## Mzmaary23 (Mar 18, 2013)

Thank you for the replies, was having a little rant - we are keeping to the gym we both enjoy it and it's brought us closer as a couple   , and the other things I do understand why they have them,


----------



## coweyes (Sep 4, 2008)

Mzmaary  Good for you, exercise is not bad for you, its good for you just make sure your dhs bits dont get too hot!  My dh works in IT and often works on laptops (has them on his lap) so its something that carnt be avoided at times.  You have to attempt to get on and live your life even when your ttc.  Good luck. xx


----------



## Caz (Jul 21, 2002)

coweyes said:


> Caz iv never really understood why its a point blank no if you or your partner already has a child, why doesnt the nhs just suggest you pay half? or an i completely off the mark with that. Just makes sense to me one of you is lucky enough to have a child so just pay 50%.


It would make sense wouldn't it. I know there are some areas where part funded cycles were available for various reasons (i.e. they fund your cycle, you pay for the drugs, that kind of thing), but I'm not sure how those cycles were accessed or even if there are areas that still do this. 
My stepsons were in their early to mid 20s when we started IVF. They didn't live with us; I was never a mother figure to them (not even in a stepmotherly context because the maximum age between us is only 10 years). I was so bitter about it but couldn't argue because that was the criteria. Quite frustratingly, after I'd completed my first private cycle, my PCT changed the criteria and allowed people in my situation (where one partner is childless and the children do not live with the couple) one funded cycle. But by then we fall foul of another criteria (must not have had any previous IVF private or funded). I was pretty spitting mad about that but couldn't do a thing about it.



goldbunny said:


> i think everyone should get one free go, regardless of other children or not. Nobody does ivf for fun!


If only the NICE guidelines were followed to the letter then it would be the case. 

I do get the need to restrict where the money goes. It's a limited pot available and, frankly, as much as I would have loved to have my cycles funded, and would love to see a world where everyone can access a funded cycle, I would not want that to be at the expense of critical care in other areas. Given the choice between offering funded IVF to all and funding a new cancer drug that would save lives, I believe I too would make a decision to fund something life saving rather than life creating.


----------



## Haydan (Oct 12, 2013)

Yes but not all funded treatments are life saving! There's are loads of cosmetic surgeries, or weight loss procedures done on the NHS that I disagree with, the extra money could come from these things - give them tougher guidelines.


----------



## coweyes (Sep 4, 2008)

I agree with you Caz, the whole reason why their is a restriction on Bmi, smoking, age etc etc is because the nhs want to only put their money where is most likely to succeed.  It is so so hard when you see other ladies falling pregnant nat when their still smoking, my work colleague is one of them!


Haydan your right of course, but i believe that a lot of things like cosmetic surgery have been done on the nhs because it has severely effects the patients mental health.  Also i think that things like weight loss procedures are done on the nhs as its calculated that it will cost the nhs more by all the associated medical conditions that an obese patient has, so its cheaper to give them weight loss surgery.  The bottom line is that you will always take from Peter to pay Paul!  No one can give a totally independent view on things as we are always effected by our own situation.  I just think it should be fair, every pct (or what ever their called now) do the same, get rid of the post code lottery.


----------



## AMAM (May 8, 2013)

I totally understand why they have thes restrictions but I always think about those women out there who have smoked,drunk and had a crap diet getting pregnant straight away, why them and not us?  It really annoys me when we are told you should not do this or that and you have another person in your family or at work who has no thought of the struggles and sacrifices we have to go through


----------



## cosmopolitan4112008 (Oct 18, 2013)

With all the changes toward the healthier lifestyle, your body will be healthier plus your baby. When you take care of something from the beginning, the outcome will be good as well. Also, I do believe that healthier living has to do with better child's intelligence since the brain during the formation is getting good nutrition (put the genetics a bit aside). Therefore,  don't compare and bother yourself.everbody carries their own cross.


----------



## Haydan (Oct 12, 2013)

I really dont think the main issue is that we have to be healthy to meet the criteria but that it discriminates against couples that have children via one partner or that it's a postcode lottery. That's the real unfair treatment right there.


----------



## Dory10 (Aug 6, 2013)

coweyes said:


> I believe that a lot of things like cosmetic surgery have been done on the nhs because it has severely effects the patients mental health. Also i think that things like weight loss procedures are done on the nhs as its calculated that it will cost the nhs more by all the associated medical conditions that an obese patient has, so its cheaper to give them weight loss surgery. The bottom line is that you will always take from Peter to pay Paul! No one can give a totally independent view on things as we are always effected by our own situation. I just think it should be fair, every pct (or what ever their called now) do the same, get rid of the post code lottery.


I agree cow eyes, if I lived in the next pct I'd be entitled to 2 more ICSI cycles free on the NHS where as now we're having to pay for our second. I actually feel lucky that we got our first for free. You're right about the cosmetic surgery too, a mutual friend had a breast enlargement free last year as it was deemed to be having a negative impact on her mental health. Infertility certainly has a negative impact on mental health but then the assumption is that as you're depressed you'd not be suitable as a parent -I know nothing is ever black and white but there needs to be consistency in approach across all PCTs.


----------

