# The stupid things people say...



## beachgirl

Welcome to your new home....


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## bankie

Just marking the thread and sending     to all the ladies who have been putting with insensitive comments lately.

I'm 6 days into hormone shots, so am ready for my first PP assignments if anyone needs me!


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## Tama

Monring ladies, just book marking so I don't lose you   What would I do without this thread. 

Had a quick read back...there are some idiots about  

BIG   to everyone xx


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## Fraggles

Hi

I'm adding this stupid thing on behalf of a friend who was having ivf - she was 7 weeks pregnant and miscarried. The young Dr made her go and sit with pregnant women when she understandably asked to sit away from them and then said "it's not like you have lost a baby" - WTF?

PP - what would be suitable punishment and should we introduce a hall of fame for idiots?

F x


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## Irish Dee

Just bookmarking this thread, it gives me so much insight into other people's ignorance!!!

Hope everyone is well,

De


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## Mousky

Hey hey,

Just registering  

Fraggles -   how are you? Now let me see if I got this correctly, the DOCTOR told her this     

 to all.

Mousky xx


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## Fraggles

Hey Mousky

I'm doing good thanks, you?

Yep Dr said this to her, I think grabbing a certain part of his anatomy and twisting it may have got the message across as to how she was feeling.   

F x


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## Izzybear

Hey Ladies

Didn't wanna lose you lot or I would surely lose my mind!!

Started on my HRT yesterday ready for FET and so I am MORE THAN READY to bash someone over the head with a HPT if required. I'm only on 2 a day at the minute, just wait until I get up to 4 a day     

Fraggles - I can believe that your friend went through that, happened to me first time I m/c, you would think Drs would have a bit more noggin than to do that  

Hope everyone is ok

Izzy x


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## lizziesiddal

*Removing Cheryl Cole outfit and dusting myself down after 'bobbiting' the doctor of Fraggles' friend.  Well, "it's not like he lost a pen*s"; more of a peanut. Don't know why he's   *

Sardonic hat off now...That's outrageous.  Poor love.  I think some of these so-called doctors must've missed the classes marked 'empathy training' when at medical school.  It's all very well being a fantasic medic, but if there's no person behind the white coat, it's a horrible, horrible experience to be treated by one of them.  I hope your friend is okay, Fraggles.  I think the hall of fame is fantastic idea, too.


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## kitten77

just bookmarking.

but just want to say about jobs and how annoying it is when you gotta do baby showers etc....im a health and safety office and i have to do risk assessments on newly pregnant ladies EACH month all the way up to when they leave!! so ive gotta sit each month with about 5 at the moment being smily and happy seeing them grow and get excited/moan while i just die inside! but hey its a job!!!!


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## Betty-Boo

Just book marking x


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## emmaboo73

Fraggles - that is the worst I think - because you'd expect more from a Dr. Well I used to...

   to everyone today

eb xx


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## Kitten 80

Helloooooooooooooooo Peeps just bookmarking 

All had a good weekend


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## poodlelover

hello all

Hall of Fame good idea but think Hall of Shame would be more apt

PL xx


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## Fraggles

Hi 

You know it might be helpful if the medical profession were to interview women and partners who were courageous enough to talk about their experiences both personally and how the medical profession treated them when the suffered a miscarriage which could then be used as a training video for anyone specialising in fertility. Then they would be aware it isn't all about lovely cute babies and fulfilling someone's dreams. So whilst I appreciate they may in some case be young and inexperienced, other cases they just have not got a clue what it's like they could actually consider what people go through as I think losing a child in any circumstances must be so heartbreaking.

F x


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## Mousky

Izzybear said:


> Fraggles - I can believe that your friend went through that, happened to me first time I m/c, you would think Drs would have a bit more noggin than to do that


Must say it really surprises me and makes me feel quite happy with my doc. Once, we were talking about embryo reduction and he said "this is like killing babies" I was relieved to know he felt like this towards embies. He also tries to be sympathetic when we announce (another) BFN so I was expecting most doctors to be like him  I'm sure this doctor would think I've lost my mind when I felt so sad for my embryo not making it to a BFP as clearly it was a nothing   

Izzy - are you using progynova? I was hoping for no side effects   

Kitten77 - good grief!  

lizzie - I'm with you. I'm not expecting my doctors to take me out for dinner but a bit of sympathy is the least we can expect. They are treating us after all  In the beginning my cons was super serious - he's quite shy which I find odd for a gynae  - but lately DH has even discussed his golf handicap  I really think it makes all the difference for us to be treated by him.

Mousky xx


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## coweyes

my consultant was joking with me cos i had to park in the midwifes parking space.  He said be careful cos they may call you in to work, we had a good laugh at the ironicness of this.  I also appreciated the fact that he could banter about such a difficult subject esp as i had just been to chat about why my cycle had failed.  Our consultant takes ages to pronounce his words and i thought god this is going to bug me, he is also hard to understand.  But to be honest he is such a great consultant and never minds repeating himself that i would never swap him for anyone else.  The service from the BCRM is second to none, i feel very lucky in that sense xxxxxxxxxxx


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## Izzybear

Mousky said:


> Izzy - are you using progynova? I was hoping for no side effects
> 
> Mousky xx


Hi Mousky

Yes it's progynova, no bad side effects but together with the buserelin I seem to get really hyper, have been cleaning like a whirlwind for about 3 weeks since I started down regging. I'm told by DH that I have another side effect which is mild tourettes as I shout at the telly during x-factor and my road rage has increased 

Otherwise bring on the 4 a day dosage  

Izzy x


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## wishy-washy

Izzy - So that's why I've done so much cleaning this past week, it's the buserelin! I hadn't realised that was one of the side effects . 

Loving the thread   to everyone.

Wishy washy


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## Kookymare

Hello!



Fraggles said:


> I think grabbing a certain part of his anatomy and twisting it may have got the message across as to how she was feeling.
> 
> F x


   

I love this thread !

Kookymare x


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## LuuLuu

Just bookmarking...


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## Mousky

Izzybear said:


> Yes it's progynova, no bad side effects but together with the buserelin I seem to get really hyper


Sounds like my combo  

As long as it works, hey?


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## Clomidia

Hi lovely ladies... just bookingmarking!!  

Oh, and definitely count me in for the PP - I am ready and waiting to   a few heads together, whenever you need me xx


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## Kitten 80

Hello who are we   today


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## charlie_44

Hi lovely ladies, hope you're all well.

Just bookmarking.


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## Fraggles

Wow I'm surprised there have been few posts on stupid people saying stupid things - have stupid people been giving it a rest - has news of the peestick posse spread that quickly that they are now thinking before they speak?

F x


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## Izzybear

They've obviously seen the legs akimbo signal lighting up the sky


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## Tama

Fear not ladies the Muppet's are still about. 

I had this comment today 'well if you have to drive that far (it's an hour and 10 to my clinic each way) you better get a BFP out of it'!! Oh yes I'll be sure to tell them that tomorrow when I go for my scan, it's that simple - long journey = BFP   

Tx


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## coweyes

Tama

Was that person serious!!!! ha ha how funny, thats too stupid to be anything other than totally amusing.


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## Fraggles

wow Tama that's great news - as I go to Serum Athens for treatment does that mean I am going to be the next octomum?

F x


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## Kitten 80

Tama


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## poodlelover

Ah ha so that's why have been getting BFNs~my clinic is only 20 mins away!! Maybe now will be going to one further away will finally get a BFP!! I forgot more effort=BFP.

There does seem to have been a lull in stupid comments recently. Maybe it's the calm before the storm over Xmas! Think we should ensure we have out IPP outfits on under our Santa costumes in case of emergency,also am concerned that the "legs akimbo" signal may not show up due to all the Xmas lights. Any suggestions?

PLx


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## Tama

Fraggles   

I think if you have a clinic that is close you need to drive round the block a few times to clock up the miles and time. That way you are sure to get your BFP   I was like 'what' After she'd gone I just sat there laughing to myself, harmless comment but totally   

I think that word has got out about the PP and so people are being extra careful about what they say or maybe it's because they are too busy filling their faces with mince pies to get out a silly comment!


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## Izzybear

I just worry that they're saving them up for Christmas Day get togethers, I have got a script of comebacks prepared ready and the Posse on speed-dial 

Tama - saw on your sig that you have scan today - good luck!!

Izzy x


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## bankie

Oh no Izzybear, I can't face another Christmas of inadvertant clangers from my friends and family, let's hope that doesn't happen.    

Tama - good luck for your scan today hun.  

Re clinic distance, mine is 2 hours away - clearly I'm just not trying hard enough.  If I have to do another tx after this one (please God no) then it looks like I'll have to go international, or maybe even intergalactic, just to guarantee myself a BFP.

Well, I'm having EC tomorrow so I'll be out of PP action for a few days.  Although I won't be up to tearing around the country righting the wrongs of fertility injustice, I think I could make a great armchair colonel.  So keep the stupid comments coming and I'll be happy to think of some suitable punishments (cue evil cackling...)    

 bankie


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## Izzybear

bankie said:


> Re clinic distance, mine is 2 hours away - clearly I'm just not trying hard enough. If I have to do another tx after this one (please God no) then it looks like I'll have to go international, or maybe even intergalactic, just to guarantee myself a BFP.
> 
> Well, I'm having EC tomorrow so I'll be out of PP action for a few days. Although I won't be up to tearing around the country righting the wrongs of fertility injustice, I think I could make a great armchair colonel. So keep the stupid comments coming and I'll be happy to think of some suitable punishments (cue evil cackling...)
> 
> bankie


Intergalactic eh? now there's a thought....

Good luck for your EC tomo, loads of  coming your way.

x


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## Tama

Thanks Izzy and Bankie   I'm starting to get nervous now, tummy is all bubbly, not good when you are going to have your legs up in the air!!!  

Bankie - best of luck for EC tomorrow     xx

They better not be saving up for a Christmas blow out or there will be some very sorry people in my area   xx


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## Kitten 80

Morning lady's


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## Mousky

Tama - GL for your scan  

Bankie - GL for EC tomorrow. Hopefully, is the only one you'll need    

ps. I'm planning to move closer to my clinic as we were getting tired of driving for an hour and a half but maybe we shouldn't


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## Kitten 80

I'm not it gets me out of work for a bit


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## lizziesiddal

Hey Bankie - how did EC go?   


There does seem to be a lull in the stupid comments as we approach Christmas although can I nominate the press this week for their "Women who take their full maternity leave entitlement lose out in the boardroom and don't have such successful careers."  How dare mothers spend time with their children and not climb the greasy pole /smash that glass ceiling! 

Isn't it interesting how IF completely makes you shift your perspective on what is important in life?


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## wishy-washy

I've been trying to hide from the world to ensure that no one can say anything stupid to me but my DH invited our architect (let me change that to ex-architect) round and he just dropped a clanger!

He came to draw up plans for a small extension to our lounge last April and we have just been granted planning permission and now need engineer's drawings done.

Anyway he walked in and said to me _"how did it go?" _ I looked at him puzzled and said _"What? "_He looked at my stomach and said _"the birth?" _  I was flabbergasted and he said _"I thought you were pregnant last time I saw you"_ I said _*"NO" * _ and just wanted him to leave .

I was down regulating last time he came round but not then pregnant. Since thenI have been pregnant and miscarried but he wouldn't have known any of that. I was slim before my 1st IVF attempt and have now got a bit of a tummy with the IVF drugs but not enough to assume I've just given birth.

Maybe architects assume that if you are planning an extension and you don't already have children then it means that you must be pregnant. Needless to say we are not going to be using him again.

Can the PP posse go round and sort him out please?  What punishment does that comment require?



Izzybear said:


> I just worry that they're saving them up for Christmas Day get togethers, I have got a script of comebacks prepared ready and the Posse on speed-dial


Izzybear - please can you share your list of comebacks I need to memorise some of them.

wishy washy


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## Tama

wishy-washy   what a j*rk!!!. As for a punishment I think he needs to be whipped within an inch of his life with a hpt   and then poked with one of his oh so important architect pencils   xxxx


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## SarahJaneH

Hello everyone

Wishy-washy your ex architect most definitely needs a visit from the PP!  Skewer him with a set square I say!

I've been lurking on this thread for a while, great idea to have somewhere to let off steam about things like this. We've recently had our first BFN.  As we hadn't told anyone what we were going through, we forgave friends for moaning about their kids, messy houses due to their expanding family or the old chestnut - it's allright for you, you can go out when you want to. After all, it's difficult to be sensitive when you don't know about something and it's all too easy to take things for granted. Well, we've now started to tell a few close family and friends. Whilst most have been very supportive, I would like to share the advice of one dear but tactless friend to whom I had just explained amidst rather a lot of tears that we have a male factor problem... Sounds like you need to go out on the p**s and pull a random bloke... oh how thoughtful, just what I needed to hear. I know it was said to lighten the mood, but come on! I'm just off to ask my GP for a prescription for a one night stand...


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## Kitten 80

Hello lady's a friend of a friend sent me an email the other day asking whats going on with my Ivf so I said I start next month (lie ) as its this month and asked her not to say anything   but this is her reply  

"no I won't say a word. I am really pleased for you. I will keep my fingers crossed for you. Just remember though its the first attempt and you get another two goes. People don't always fall first time x"

WTF I dont wish to no that I wont   replys.


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## Izzybear

wishy-washy said:


> Can the PP posse go round and sort him out please?  What punishment does that comment require?
> 
> 
> 
> Izzybear said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just worry that they're saving them up for Christmas Day get togethers, I have got a script of comebacks prepared ready and the Posse on speed-dial
> 
> 
> 
> Izzybear - please can you share your list of comebacks I need to memorise some of them.
> 
> wishy washy
Click to expand...

Wishy washy - what an @rse, I think he needs to be placed under your new extension with his wotsits sticking above the ground for the birds to peck

Unfortunately my list of comebacks mostly end with "OFF" so I cannot share them but you can guess what they are 



SarahJaneH said:


> I would like to share the advice of one dear but tactless friend to whom I had just explained amidst rather a lot of tears that we have a male factor problem... Sounds like you need to go out on the p**s and pull a random bloke... oh how thoughtful, just what I needed to hear. I know it was said to lighten the mood, but come on! I'm just off to ask my GP for a prescription for a one night stand...


SarahJaneH - Sorry for your BFN  good luck for if you're cycling again

Your friend sounds like a nightmare but you did make me giggle with your prescription request

Kitten80, Just what you needed to hear NOT!! What makes these people say such things? why cant they just  , good luck

Izzy
x


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## Tama

Izzy     birds pecking is pecker     I have tears in my eyes and now really need to loo I laughed so hard


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## Izzybear

I aim to please   

Cant believe I was quite so violent toward him. In my defence it must be the drugs and hormones m'lord


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## Tama

I use that one too


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## SarahJaneH

Good luck Kitten and Izzy, I'm gearing up to go again in the spring. If I lose my sense of humour altogether, I know this thing has me beaten and that is NOT going to happen, but honestly people do test us don't they.

Thanks ladies on here for helping keep us all going. Pecking peckers, genius!


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## bankie

Oh for gooness sake, I'm out of active PP duty for just one day and the insensitive comments just come flooding in.      I know I said that I would act as armchair colonel and designate suitable punishments, but I have to say that I can't better the ones already suggested - they're excellent!!

Izzybear, I'm with you on the fact that most of my comebacks end with "...OFF" and aren't particularly lady-like but make me feel soooooo much better when I say them in my head!

Well we got 4 eggs at EC today which is not as many as usual, but it is what it is and I'm trying to stay positive that we'll one or two good ones in there.

 to you all.

bankie


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## lizziesiddal

kitten80 said:


> "no I won't say a word. I am really pleased for you. I will keep my fingers crossed for you. Just remember though its the first attempt and you get another two goes. People don't always fall first time x"


Exactly the same thing that my friends said to me. I know they are only trying to keep our feet on the ground, but would you say this to someone who was trying for a baby naturally? "Don't think it will happen right away..." You wouldn't dare! What makes people think they can say this?

Well, I've got a cracker for the PP brigade. My friend phoned me tonight because she hadn't phoned me for ages and wanted to 'share her dream with me.'

"I dreamt that I was a surrogate for you!"

I actually spluttered. I had no idea what to say. I calmly said, thank you, but reminded her - for the one millionth time - that as far as we know, I am fine and it is a male factor issue. To which she said, "So, you don't need a surrogate then?" Are people that thick? Really? She has had two children. 
THE ISSUE ISN'T WITH ME! I actually don't even know if she was offering or just bragging about her own fertility. In the same breath, she then went on to tell me all about her new bathsuite  

What I really wanted to say was 'Actually, if you're offering things, can I borrow your husband?" Joke, obviously. But if we're being offensive and downright daft today...

Hugs


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## poodlelover

Cant believe have not been on FF 4 2 days and sooo much has happened! Our lives are like a soap opera! Synopsis..
Architect to be incorporated into new design of extension, think Anton du Beke and "Hole in the Wall". 
GPs to be told to offer "nightclub" prescriptions incl alcohol and one night stands
PP to send "dream team" round to friends who have foot in mouth disease to demonstrate the dreams about where we can say and do what we really want to when we are on the receiving end of their ridiculous comments and actions
Helpline to be set up so IPP can be contacted 24/7. Ansafone msg as follows...
Press #1 if you are phoning to report a family member
Press #2 to report a friend or work colleague
#3 to report a boss or member of the medical profession
#4 to report a member of the public
All messages will be treated confidentially and any actions arising from reporting incidents will be held up in a court of law under the legislation "diminished responsibility due to detrimental affects of fertility treatments".

IPP motto~ "OUR DAY WILL COME..." (cue evil cackle)  
PL xx
ps bankie It only takes one!!!!


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## lizziesiddal

Poodlelover -                         I think I luv you!!


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## Fraggles

Welcome Sarah Jane I can see that you are going to be a prominent member of the PP - especially with your comment about the set square ouch.

Where do I get a prescription for a one night stand - I missed it - can I order a highly fertile single straight good looking male please?

Think we need to set up an 0800 number for Xmas day and have a team on stand by. Do we take Xmas day off and just get ready for a full on onslaught on boxing day to visit family and friends or should we develop some 'festive PP justice packs' including such items as laxatives for FF to take immediate action and sprinkle on food or irritating people's drinks in preparation and take action just before we leave their home or they leave ours so we don't suffer. Or for irritating members of the naturally fertile public (NFP) who make stupid comments include items that keep their kids up all night 24/7 then FF members have a choice of dishing immediate justice or calling the PP to action?

Wishywashy I am so sure that guy wanted the earth to swallow him up with his tactlessness (sp?) and insensitivity. But letting his bits be pecked by birds sound good but does that mean we will be superglueing lots of bread to his private areas to make sure the birds are there for a while?

Love n hugs

F x


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## SarahJaneH

Poodle, love the summary...

Lizzie, I can't believe your friend! What was she thinking? Nothing obviously....

Hello Fraggles, reporting for PP duty as and when needed. Will try not to be too violent, must have been a bad day today and I can't even blame the drugs any more, oh no! Oh Christmas, can't wait... before that I have a big extended family gathering this weekend, I fear I may have some corkers to report to the helpline. Liking your prescription request...

Sarah x


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## Foxys girl

Can I add something stupid a lady said to me at the weekend (it's not exactly related - but it was still stupid)

Out with my 2 year old son, lady walks past and says "gosh he's good looking", I say "thank you".  The she says "is his dad good looking?" I replied "yes he was" - (see my sig).  She then says "oh is that was as in gone or the other?" My reply of "yes the other" - got the reaction "why did I have to say that?". She walked away looking suitably embarrassed! 

Oh well - we live and learn.

FG x


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## Tama

Foxys girl so so so sorry about your dh    Oh my goodness I can't imagine that. BIG hugs to you   xx


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## beachgirl

Foxy    sorry about your DH x


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## Izzybear

Foxys Girl It's hard to believe that people can be so "bull in a china shop" with their comments.  So sorry about your DH.

You must be really proud of your gorgeous son if he can stop passing strangers to admire him

Bankie - well done on EC and like Poodlelover said, it only takes one  

Izzy
x


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## wishy-washy

Thanks for all the fantastic suggestions to torture the architect, they all made me laugh so much. The pencil, set square and birds - brilliant!!

SarahJane - sorry you got a BFN and what a stupid thing for your friend to say especially as she could see you were upset.

Kitten I really feel for you with your friends comment _'People don't always fall first time'_ I received similar comments on my first cycle.

Poodlelover I think all automatic public answerphone choices should have a special option for those of us with FI. I have had 2 occasions recently where I have had to give details over the phone one was a government agency where they asked if I was currently pregnant? And do I have children under the age of 5? And the other was to get a new Boots advantage card where they asked if I had any children 3 or under. I know they want the information for marketing but it really made me angry. It would be so much less painful if I got to avoid those questions by pressing '"option 4" for those that have Fertility Issues and are waiting to become parents'. To avoid getting asked these painful questions.

Foxys girl - really sorry to hear about your DH you are so strong. Reading your TTC journey has given me hope. Today I have been for my second scan and am responding poorly again. I have gone from 1 follicle to 4ish today so seeing that you had your DS with 4 eggs gives me hope. They haven't cancelled my treatment yet so I'm still in with a chance and keeping everything crossed .

 to all
Wishy-washy


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## bankie

Wishy-washy - I hear you on the insensitive marketing questions and assumptions.  My personal pet-hate are the so-called targeted adverts on ********, for free baby products for women aged 30-34.  Yes I am a woman aged 30-34, but don't assume I have a baby!!!!     

I have made it my mission to delete them every time I see them and when they ask for the reason, I mark them "offensive".  I'm really hoping that one day one of these companies will get in touch with me to ask why I find their ads offensive, so I can give them a piece of my mind!!!

Sorry, rant over.  

BTW - 3 of my 4 eggs fertilised and I'm booked in for EC on Sunday!!


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## beachgirl

Bankie woohoo that's eggcellent news x


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## MsAsian

Dear Nix - I am so sorry to hear about your BFN and the unpleasant experience with the receptionist  . I just logged in after 2 weeks - yes I went home and internet is a luxary here : (


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## wishy-washy

Bankie that’s fantastic news 3 out of 4.

I'm going to copy you and delete the baby related ******** ads and mark them as offensive too. Maybe if we all do it they might get the message, companies just don't realise do they.


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## Izzybear

Bankie great news, hope all goes well on Sunday 



beachgirl said:


> Bankie woohoo that's eggcellent news x


  beachgirl eggcellent

Wishy-washy, keeping everything crossed for follies for you 

Izzy
x


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## Kitten 80

Helloooooooooooooooo peeps

Thanks for all replys on so called friend I have   wont be shearing anymore news with her now 

Bankie hope all go's well hun

Thanks wishy keeping everything posible crossed for you


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## butsy

reading all these posts and can't believe some of the things people have said!  But good to know it's not just me who becomes homicidal sometimes.

Have been ttc for 4 years and we've just had our first go at ICSI and got BFN    I had only told a few people, and so had to explain to those who didn't know that we'd tried but it didn't work. It was really hard, especially as it had taken much more out of me that I realised.  I told one friend(conceived naturally, within 1 month both times)  a few days after we got the bad news,  she offered no sympathy at all, just said, 

'well you HAVE to try again as soon as you can .... I do understand, my sister in law took 6 months to conceive, and SHE never gave up!!!!!'


Like I'm giving up!  people don't realise what a rollercoaster it is, and I know everyone's different but I found it a really hard decision to go ahead with treatment, and it might take me more than 5 minutes to consider another cycle!!!

don't think I'll be talking about it again...


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## Kitten 80

How could she posibly understand   don't get me started had bad news friend on other thread BFN today I am so upset for her I really thought it was going tobe BFP she so deserves it like we all do.


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## SarahJaneH

Hi all

Oh Foxys girl, I am so sorry about your DH. How could that lady be so insensitive, I really hope she has learned her lesson...

All the best to everyone here who is having treatment just now - good news about your eggs Bankie and good luck Wishy Washy.

Butsy, sorry about your BFN, its so hard and you are right it isn't easy just to pick yourself up again, be kind to yourself and do whatever you need to in your own time, not anyone elses.

   to all xx


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## lizziesiddal

Foxys Girl     You are so strong.  

Bankie - I agree about those ******** adverts. I'm going to delete them too.

Well, those of you who read about me doing the maternity cover/baby shower last week might remember I thought someone else may be pregnant.  Still don't know about her, but the lady who sits down from her was talking to someone else in the faculty office today and I heard the words 'scan', 'hormone levels' and 'everything seems fine'.  She is a very thin lady, but when she stood up later I thought, there's a definite beginnings of a bump there.  Pleased for her, but ... oh well, might get to do her maternity cover for her after this one's done.  That is how I'm going to continue to pay for my IVF, isn't it?  Doing other women's jobs whilst they're on maternity leave. Oh, I do love irony!

Bigs hugs for the weekend, ladies.


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## Mousky

Lizzie - I remember   I think your remark about the money is very realistic but still it shouldn't have to be that ironic  

Foxys - sending some more     your way.

Bankie - best of luck for ET   

Tama - how are you getting one with your scans? 

Butsy - honestly      

Sending you all some  

Mousky xx


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## Tama

Hiya

Scans didn't got well. Over simulated so cd8 scan showed 6 follies all 8mm plus. Told to stop gonal went back today and 2 follies got bigger 13mm and 14mm but there are still too many follies at about 10mm so they cancelled this cycle. Very upset, cried in my car in the carpark for 10 minutes but then had to drive home. Called work and said I would not be in so have done some Christmas shopping and got a nice bottle of wine, which I'm now having with dh. Now have to wait till next cycle and try 37.5iu rather than 75iu of gonal, just pray that doesn't do the same or I don't know what we'll do - 37.5 is the lowest dose!

Sorry that turned into a mini rant!

Hope everyone is well and has lovely weekends  

Tx


----------



## Mousky

Tama - that's too bad    I'm really sorry it went that way   Were you scanned when you were on clomid? It seems you responded really fast on Gonal f 75 which is a low dose. I had this with 150 on my first IVF (I have PCO, though), hundreds of follies   I really hope it works for you next time with 37.5 but if it doesn't, don't lose hope as some ladies respond better on other drugs (I had better results with Menopur)  Enjoy your


----------



## Izzybear

Tama

Sorry to hear your news

Enjoy your wine



Izzy
x


----------



## beachgirl

Tama   sorry to hear about this cycle, hoping that it works next time with your increased dosage


----------



## lizziesiddal

Tama     Sending lots of hugs your way.  Wishing you all the best for your next cycle, hon.


----------



## wishy-washy

Tama I just wanted to send you lots of        's


----------



## bankie

Tama I'm so sorry hun.  Sending you lots of


----------



## poodlelover

Tama

so sorry   must be something about Gonal F (artificial hormone innit). It made me overstimulate too. Get your bad self on the nun's wee  (u think I'm joking) Menopur is the way to go!

Once again vvvv sorry you had to cancel. Take care 

PL xx

Lizzie weird isn't it how we seem to be able to pick up the preg vibes from 1000 paces. 
Bankie good luck for today!
Foxysgirl so sorry bt ur DH. u must b v proud of your son x
Wishy washy~ yes to option 4!


----------



## Izzybear

Bankie

How did ET go??

Izzy
x


----------



## bankie

Hi Izzy,

ET went well - I've got two grade 1 embies (10 cell and 6 cell) back on board the mothership!! Just need to try and keep myself sane for the next 2 weeks now.

Off to listen to Zita West's calming tones to send me off to sleep...


----------



## SarahJaneH

Tama, sending you 

good news re your ET Bankie, fingers crossed for you x


----------



## Mousky

Bankie -        your way  

 everyone.


----------



## Tama

Thanks ladies for all the lovely messages  

Bankie wishing you loads of luck hun     xx

Hope everyone is well. 

x


----------



## ladynecta

Hello ladies, I have read with interest, amusement and sadness from your first posts, but have never had reason to post, mainly because DP and one friend are the only people who know about TX...

Well I have a reason to call for your help... or maybe just understanding now!
Said friend (bestfriend of 8 years) who has two children - and does appreciate them greatly (had one very diffucult pregnancy) has upset me, and its not the stupid things she has said... its what she hasn't said that has upset me! 
I had an early scan at 7+1 that showed only an empty sac and was told to come back a week later for another scan but wasn't given much hope. When I told my friend she was very supportive and even text me the night before my scan to tell me she was thinking of me... all fine there. But. I text her the morning of my scan that I had been told the pregnancy was non-viable and that I had decided to wait a bit for a natural miscarriage rather than book in for ERPC just yet. No reply. I text her later on to ask if I could visit her as DP was working a late shift and I didn't feel like being on my own. Again no reply. I know she has the messages as I get delivery reports... I can't believe 4 days later she still hasn't said a thing.... what the hell do I say to her when I next hear from her, I can't believe she has ignored me! Or am I expecting too much? I know I am emotional right now...


----------



## Kitten 80

Hello Ladynecta I am so sorry hun  , I don't think you are being unreasonable at all but she might have a perfectly good reason so maybe you should phone her before it upsets you more because I no what I am like I sit there and stew on it and it makes me worse.


----------



## Izzybear

Ladynecta

So sorry to hear whats happened  

I agree with Kitten that she may have a perfectly good reason so maybe call her. She may just not have the words to offer you so is avoiding contact so as not to say the wrong thing if that makes sense.

Having had similar experiences, I know that I found it really hard to hear the "right things" when people tried to console me but in time I felt strong enough to give it another go.  

Take care of yourself
Izzy
x


----------



## Izzybear

Hi Bankie

Congrats on being PUPO, ten and six sounds good, have you named them?

Take it easy now they are aboard the mothership - love that!!

Izzy
x


----------



## Fraggles

Ladynecta

Big hugs coming your way and sorry to hear of your tough times.

I understand perfectly how hurt you feel and perhaps your friend does too but feels ill prepared and so inadequate that she doesn't know how to support you or how to help you coupled with guilt for having a child.

Of course you are emotional and whatever the reason I would still feel disappointed so didn't respond.

Lots of love x


----------



## poodlelover

Bankie~ sounds good!! When is OTD?

Ladynecta~ v sorry to hear ur news . As for your friend. Yes she may have a reason not to ring you but it'd better be a good one!! Dunno what u could do~ depends on how upset u r. If u can bide ur time until she eventually gets in touch and then say how upset u were not to hear from her u could do that if u rnt going to get more and more mad   in the meantime. If u decide u can't wait then ring if u can calmly say you wondered why she hadnt replied to ur txts. Go with ur gut feeling and do whatever it takes to make u feel better in the light of whats happened. Take care  

PL xx


----------



## joeyrella

hi lady necta, very sorry to hear your sad news honey.   it sounds to me like your friend falls in the not knowing what to say category rather than purposely trying to hurt your feelings.  not that it makes it any easier for you to accept her behaviour.  if it was me i think i would call round when you know she will be there alone and clear the air.


----------



## Fraggles

Peestick Posse 
I need you and not quite sure how this one will work as it is not the stupid things people have said but wonder if perhaps we can 'stretch the boundaries' to stupid things people have done. I have never slept around and only had long term partners and one miserable son of a gun has given me chlymadia - no idea who. But when my iui didn't work clinic suggested having a chlymadia test. In the UK I test negative but in the UK they test the with a swab or sample from the lower vagina. WARNING LOOK AWAY NOW IF YOU ARE SCREAMISH
In Greece they test with menstrual blood as they believe that chlymadia could be present at source in the uterine (I think it is). Lots of Brits test negative in UK and then positive with the Greek test. Hence I am now positive.
Do we have some sort of homing device which can go and suitably punish the eejit who gave it to me in the first place please as my treatment is now going to be delayed while I have antibiotics to clear it up so if antibiotics work first time now looking end of Feb instead of beginning of Jan? GGRRRRR
Fraggles x


----------



## Mousky

Ladynecta - I remember you from Aug/Sept board. So sorry to hear your news    As for your friend, hopefully the other ladies here are right and she just doesn't know what to say   Or maybe there's something major going on with her and she couldn't reach you. Maybe you should just call her and talk it over. That said, I'm afraid sometimes our friends disappoint us   Can you believe the last time I spoke to my best friend (over 20 years) was 3 days before my father died? I told her he was about to die and she NEVER called/emailed/smsed me   I think I heard from other people she was going through a lot of problems herself but honestly   Really hope you can work it out with your friend  

Fraggles - what a bummer! I've already had a positive test for the anti-bodies. It wasn't confirmed if it really was chlamydia or what type. Like you, I was quite surprised with the possibility of having it but I was told it's actually pretty common and usually not so harmful if treated correctly. We took some antibiotics and the tests came back normal. At that point I had a hysteroscopy and things looked OK. Also I had one of those swabs later and it was negative   I guess, we never know   Hopefully, you'll be fine in no time   Btw, looks like FET will be around Feb/March for me. It can't be that bad   

Mousky xx


----------



## Izzybear

Fraggles

OMG didnt realise there was different tests depending on where you were

That must have been a bit of a faceslap, espesh as its put you back a month.

That eejit you mentioned needs to watch out that his bits dont shrivel up and fall off, have been thinking about this so hard I now have a serious need for botox on those forehead wrinkles   .  Think Karma and breathe..............ah thats better


----------



## Fraggles

Izzybear,

Yes think bits should shrivel up and fall off and decided that I am putting strong powerful laxatives in the direct water supply to his house as well as blocking up his loo drains and pipes so when he flushes the loo it come straight back at him.

Think Peestick Posse may need a logo - Don't **** off the peestick posse otherwise you may be wearing your pees and your poos - does that work or does it need some work.

F x


----------



## Izzybear




----------



## Kitten 80

Morning lady's I will read posts in a while as they are so long   

My mother phones me last night to wish me luck for today I said why, she said yoour going in hospital to have somthing done arnt you, I said first no its wednesday 2nd its just info day and collect drugs, she thought we go in have somthing taken out then put back in then find out in a few weeks if its worked bless her how many times to I have to exsplain how its done it takes 6 weeks


----------



## Tama

Morning ladies

I'm a bit on the fence with this one...as it's my mum   Background - I have two cousins, the youngest got married a year before me and 6 months later she was pg. Then the older cousin got married 3 months after me and a few months later was pg. I don't really see them or keep in touch but she had her baby 2 weeks ago and they didn't tell me! So anyway on Friday a box arrives at work addressed to my mum (she lives in France but is coming to us for Xmas). 

I call her to say it's arrived and she say 'oh that's good it has Oxxxxx present in it' (now this name isn't one I'd heard before) so I ask who is Oxxxxx? She say 'oh it's xxxx's baby, she had him back in November' First of all I was like WTF, why didn't anyone tell me but then I thought about it and came to the conclusion that they didn't want to upset me. So I think no more about it. I called mum last night and this is the punch line............she said 'you know that box, well it has a baby gift in it for Oxxxx, would you mind wrapping it up, putting a note with it and posting it to Xxxxx so she gets it before Xmas'. 

Now is it just sensitive little o'l me or is that taking the p*ss? Why the hell would I want to handle baby gifts, wrap them and then write a congratulations on the birth of your baby, bla, bla, bla!!!

Sorry that was very long winded but my mother really is clueless sometimes! When I called her to say the cycle has been cancelled she just said not to get too upset and then moved onto her chickens! 

Do we send the PP after her


----------



## Kitten 80

Tama yes send them after her she shouldn't exspect anything like that.

My friend who has this beautiful boy which is my little man   doesn't exspect me to do anything that mothers do but I shocked her by just taking him up to his changing unit and changing his smelly nappy I said oh sorry was I not surposed to she said I don't mind just thought you wouldn't like to, just because I am having trouble doesnt mean I am afraid of a smelly nappy  , its pg women I carn't face.


----------



## wishy-washy

OH Tama, we definitely need to send the PP round to her  

I have had my treatment cancelled yesterday as I haven't stimulated enough. Have been told that this is a sign that my egg reserves are running low and that IVF wouldn’t work for me again with my own eggs, but I don’t want to believe that. Anyway my mum tried to comfort me by telling me that my sister, who must be about 6 months pregnant now, “she didn't know if she would EVER get pregnant.” She had an entopic pregnancy last year which was an accidental pregnancy and she didn’t want to start a family until September 2010 but because I’m having problems and miscarried she decided to start trying the week after I miscarried and she told me she was pregnant 2 weeks later.  My mum doesn’t seem to realise that it is me not my sister that doesn’t know if I will ever get pregnant. She has only shared my journey over the past year and forgets that there were another 2 years of heartache before that. 

I have already punished her as I screamed down the phone for 10 minutes, never done anything like that before as I’m normally such a calm person. She now has a sore ear and I have lost my voice today. I did apologise and I think she now has a slight understanding of how I feel and how painful that comment is. 


It’s not all over for me yet as I begged the clinic to let me have IUI as I have 1 leading follicle but it needs to be at least 1.8 by tomorrow and they only gave me a 1% chance of success but thats still a chance .

Wishy-washy


----------



## coweyes

Tama

To be honest that is pretty thoughtless of your mum, but maybe she does not really realise?  We are all so wrapped up in the horror of infertility and then totally stunned when someone is thoughtless that i really do think that the world does not understand.  I know she should know and understand, but i think a little education may be in order!  That said and done i would be really hurt and cheesed off my it, but try not to waist you energy on negative things!

Wishy-washy i am so sorry to hear you had your cycle canceled good luck with the iui.

Now i have a bit of a winge but feel really bad about this.  I am not heartless not one bit but please listen to this and let me know what you think.

I have a friend who sadly had a still birth a couple of months ago she also had a miscarriage just before that.  She knows my situation and the fact the i have had a ectopic (natural) and a miscarriage (through ivf) this year.  Anyway since she has sadly had the still birth she started to put pictures of the baby on her ******** page.  Since then she has continued to bombard her ******** page of really really personal information regarding the still birth.  Such as comments about the postmortem and pictures of her babies grave.  Granted she normally tries to put a positive slant on in and has been clearly very strong and i do admire her for it.  But i personally do not think ******** is the right forum for such an open and full on image and daily updates of what has happened.

She also has strong believes on baby angels and other things like this, which is fine for her, but not everyone else feels the same way!  The worst thing is that people always comment on her status so she is bound to think its ok.

I know that ******** has clearly given her a lot of strengh.  But i personally dont think is a subject that should be discussed so openly on there, maybe discussed more discreetly.  But she has taken the choice away from others who may be upset or offended by it all constantly on their ******** page.  Personally i dont share the same believes as her and do generally find it upsetting and distressing to be constantly reminded of it all, whether i want to be or not.

Sorry that i have gone on for ages but have wandered if i would come across as selfish for saying this.  Please tell me what you think xxxxx

ps obviously when she writes her status updates with her picture of the baby as her ** picture is automatically comes up on her contacts page, so its not like you only see it when you click into her page.


----------



## Irish Dee

Hi Coweyes,

That is a difficult one. Your friend is obviously going through a very hard time following the loss of her baby.

I know that on my ******** page, I don't even make any mention of infertility or any treatment that I go through as I think it is just a networking/keep in touch forum, but your friend must be getting some consolation from her page and the comments and making sure that her baby is not forgotten.

In a way, perhaps is would be much easier for everyone else, if she kept her heartbreak to herself and allowed everyone to believe that she is 'over' it, but she obviously needs to keep her baby's memory alive.

It would not be something that I would do, but everyone deals with things differently.

My advice would be if it really upsets you and makes you uncomfortable, delete her as a friend on ******** and you won't have to see her updates.

I'm so sorry for your own losses and it must be hard to be reminded all the time of a baby who has passed when you have lost your own. 

*"The worst thing is that people always comment on her status so she is bound to think its ok."*
The fact that she gets a lot of encouraging comments may be of a real help to her and I think that there might be a lot of people who do think it is ok.

Hope I'm not too harsh,

Dee


----------



## Mousky

Hello everyone,

Tama - it doesn't get any easier, does it?     I think many people are clueless and thoughtless. I have to believe they're not out there to get us    

Wishy-washy - sorry about your cancelled cycle    and your mother    People say anything to give comfort or to just end an uncomfortable conversation   Good luck for IUI, who knows?    

Coweyes - sorry to hear about your ectopic and m/c    re your friend on ******** isn't there an option to block the updates? I tend to agree with Dee. I personally haven't told anyone about what's going on with us and not that many people know my father died almost a year ago. But I know plenty of people who find comfort in talking about their losses all the time with everyone! Your friend clearly isn't OK with her loss - how could she be anyways?   -  sending you some more  

Mousky xx


----------



## coweyes

Thank you Mousky and Irish Dee, i am glad you did not think i was horrible.  I would delieat her but she would know and i would then be faced with saying, i dont want to upset her so dont really know what to do.


----------



## Tama

Hiya Coweyes, I'm not sure about this but is there a section on ******** that you can click that will hide her posts but she wont know you've done it. I'm sure someone told me a while ago that you can do that? Maybe worth having a look in your settings area. I don't think you are horrible   I think I would feel the same. So sorry for your lose   I can see that maybe she needs the support from people but it is a bit too public for me. 

Have a look and see if you can change your settings, maybe that will help. I have to say I see posts from people on my ******** pages about their babies and I really don't want to see lovely cute babies but somehow can't stop myself from opening up the album and looking at all the pictures  

xx


----------



## Izzybear

Kitten & Tama - mothers eh   stopped telling mine anything as she would always broadcast it to all and sundry, not in a nasty way but just couldnt   and was always giving me snippets back that such and such said..... 

Wishy washy sorry your tx was cancelled, but like you say any chance is still a chance, well done for insisting on the IUI and loads of luck   .  My sister did the same and started trying just after my 1st mc.  I found it really hurtful so havent told her anything about whats happened since, its "slightly" easier that way

Coweyes - that is just too out there for me, I think grief is a very personal thing but of course everyones different and she appears to take comfort from the replies.  I agree with the others that you can turn off parts of ** (dont remember how though   ) I know this doesnt solve your problem totally but might help.  

Izzy x


----------



## Kitten 80

Izzy my mum is well and truely   and I love her to bits she is like my best friend and anything she says makes me laugh


----------



## coweyes

Thank you everyone you have settled my mind xxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Fraggles

OH Wishywashy, I am sending you lots of love your way.

Tama, I genuinely think people who aren't going through what we are don't really have a clue and how could they? Think they try to understand but just don't get our hurt or how what they are saying is so insensitive and sometimes need it spelling out to them what is so painful and why it is. Particularly if for them it was as easy as ABC, they have no grasp of the hoops that we jump through and why it is that we have difficulty. I have to admit until I personally had my first BFN I sympathised with people who had challenges getting pregnant but didn't really get it and it's only through reading and sharing everyone's experiences on FF that I now realise how it affects people. I think many people are genuinely ignorant and don't realise the hurt they cause with their comments.

Now my mother bless her I love her dearly - I told her I got tested for chlymadia and it was positive and my treatment is delayed. she sympathised and her 76 year old self said so how do you get chlymadia - oh the niaivety - I so wish our age could be. 

Coweyes I think your friend needs counselling she has gone through something horrendous and is obviously totally heartbroken. But like you and others I don't think that ** is the place to put it up for all to see and would see if I could hide her updates.

Love and hugs to all

F x


----------



## Mousky

Tama said:


> I have to say I see posts from people on my ******** pages about their babies and I really don't want to see lovely cute babies but somehow can't stop myself from opening up the album and looking at all the pictures


The same here    but I'm not truly bothered by babies


----------



## Mousky

Hi everyone,

It's been so quiet here  

No stupid remarks?

Or are you all going crazy with Xmas planning?

Mousky


----------



## Tama

Morning ladies....wow it has been very quiet in here..............well I have a corker from last night and of all people it was dh!!!!!!!!!  

So we are watching TV getting ready to have dinner and an ad for Gavin & Stacey comes on. There's a bit (sorry for anyone that doesn't watch -Stacey has been off the pill a year and just got another BFN so is worried there is something wrong with her) where Stacey is saying 'what if I'm like Karen', and Ness goes 'Barron Karen?' So anyway dh turns round to me and goes well there you go at least you're not called Karen!!!!!!!!! 

So at this point I'm in tears and rush off to the bathroom! If it had been anyone else I would have punched them. So he rushes in and gives me a hug, tells me he's sorry and he didn't mean to up set me. Anyway am I being over sensitive? It has been known to happen   or was that really not the thing to say to your wife after she has had 3.7years of worry, waiting and what ifs plus a cancelled IUI?

I think we need a vote and if the PP are needed I'll take it on myself. I'm sure I can think of something good for him like a laxative in his morning coffee  

Hope everyone is okay. I'm feeling low and very unlike me for this time of year normally I'm filled with happy thoughts but night now they are dark. Maybe coz I'm off to see my friend and her 5 month old baby that I haven't seen since she had him!

Tx


----------



## coweyes

Tama

Mmmmmm its a difficult one.  I honestly think i would just try to laugh it off.  I know that sounds crazy but i am sure he thought he was just trying to make a bit of a joke out of a "s#@t situation.  But your right if it was someone else then i would go mad.  There are enough stresses on this route and if you can brush peoples thoughtless comments off i think its best.  Well thats what i  to tell myself, esp when my family say "do a bit of exercise you will feel better!"  mmmmmmmm of course that will solve all my problems and worries for the future! xxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Mousky

Ah, DHs... I'm convinced they're trying their best   but it doesn't ALWAYS work   and like my gynae says, let's face it, this whole parenthood thing feels different for men   Hope your visit to your friend wasn't very difficult, Tama  

Coweyes - I've been exercising and it deffo doesn't solve my problems and worries     that said I love going swimming and am getting quiet fit


----------



## Kitten 80

Hi Lady's sorry been away everyone ok

My DH is good but your right they don't understand like we do because they are not pumped full of hormoans.


----------



## coweyes

Mousky and Kitten80

I have been quite surprised by my dh he has always been supportive but tends not to visit an issue more than once  .  He is good at putting it in a box and moving on from it.  Anyway i have been signed off sick for 2 weeks with stress, mainly to do with IF.  Anyway he has been really attentive and understanding, not "you really just need to move on" no non of that. He has even started to buy me flowers, this is all on top of him setting up a new business!

I am totally convinced that IF is made so much worse due to the world we live in and the majority of people who live in it! eg everyone on about having babies and society being based around family and family living.  I am sure there must be a way on letting go of all the negativity and heartache that others cause us, so that we can solely concentrate on whats important, eg our quest to have a baby.  Has anyone found any answered?  I have begun to read up on Buddhism and meditation and think that coupled with having a strong mind and a very strong focus this may be the way to go.  I am just sick to death of myself getting so upset by outside issues, eg the 16yr old with a baby walking down the street, there must be a way around it, or have i gone completely mad!!


----------



## Mousky

Coweyes - sending you some      I think I'm lucky I'm not part of a "group" who's very baby oriented   My friends and family members are all pursuing careers and they don't think it's weird if a person decides for no babies   I haven't told anyone so I can get away with it   I think it's important to have a strong mind as you said but also sometimes you must allow yourself to feel bad, sad and angry! afm, I can only try and convince myself it wasn't the right time for our baby but it will be. Soon!   
Btw, well done on your DH   Mine is completely overworked and whenever he tries some sympathetic remark/gesture it comes out completely wrong and we end up


----------



## joeyrella

tama
i think i would have had a fit at the at least your name isn't karen comment.  i'm glad he was instantly sorry!    
i can't watch gavin and stacey at the moment  
why is it that every comedy inevitably has an infertility story line in it.  from where i'm sitting it isn't that funny!


----------



## Izzybear

joeyrella said:


> i can't watch gavin and stacey at the moment
> why is it that every comedy inevitably has an infertility story line in it. from where i'm sitting it isn't that funny!


I usually love this program but it made me squirm a bit - at the time I just thought I was being over sensitive but having said that tonight I welled up at the National Anthem to start the variety show   I blame the drugs 

Izzy x


----------



## Fraggles

HI All

How is everyone?

I have some sympathy for partners because think sometimes their brain doesn't engage before they talk and perhaps because IF is one of those things that becomes such a huge part of our life's that they put their big size 8's when they try to bring some light relief. But saying that I can quite imagine that I would have had a real big rant at partner.

yes lots of tv programmes have infertility stories at the moment but why is it every time (OK exaggeration) many times I open a magazine or paper there is an infertility story or a story slagging of fertility tourism or single women having fertility treatment. Sure I have had this rant before but I am having it again now.

Unrelated to IF but I need the peestick posse for a special assignment please. I had to go to the dentist today for dental implants, they drill into your jaw and then place titanium nails into it. I told someone at work how terrified I was as it was a 2 HOUR appointment as well. She thought it was really funny to start telling me in step by step detail how it took place as her son was a denitist.    I told her she could shut up as she isn't funny. In the actual event I made it to be a lot worse than it was and was fine.

Fraggles x


----------



## Izzybear

Awwww Fraggles, I hate going to the dentist and that treatment sounds a bit traumatic

I think we should engage the PP to your work "friend" to carry out some toothy treatment, without aneasthetic (sp?) in a Dustin Hoffman Marathon Man Styleeee, showing my age again  

I hope you have now got a lovely set of knashers to grin with    

Izzy
x


----------



## Mousky

Fraggles -   there.

Izzy - How's it going? Btw, I love Dustin Hoffman  Tootsie is one of my all time favorites   Not sure I've seen Marathon Man, though


----------



## Izzybear

Hi Mousky

Not too bad this end, what about you??

I'm on 2ww until after xmas and we've got loads of people for lunch on xmas day - i'll be on here Christmas night reporting all their misdemeanours no doubt!!

Izzy x


----------



## Izzybear

Hey Ladies

Managed to survive big family dinner yesterday with no reportable comments......looking good for Christmas Day

Hope you're all ok

Izzy
x


----------



## poodlelover

This is a "the stupid things people do" post. Why do they send photocards of their kids wearing santa hats/antlers to those who are childless and who they know are having troubles ttc? We received one yesterday from a relative in Oz. Havent seen their baby and spent whole day upset by their thoughtlessness. I know they wouldnt have sent it if they knew how upset we would be but even so. Or is it just me being uber sensitive? It did feel a bit "look at what you couldve won"!


PL xx


----------



## M2M

New to this thread and haven't had any treatment yet, but have been through 2 years of the adoption process before being told we cannot proceed.  We had a lot of sympathy but some of the most frustrating comments we had were:

"At least you can travel now" from my father-in-law... ummm, if we'd wanted to travel, we'd have done it in the past 9 years since we got together! We're homebirds and he knows it!

"You'll be able to enjoy holidays now, without being tied down" - again from the father-in-law. 

"Make the most of your time when it's just the two of you" - had 9 years of that, and would quite like some children to join us now!

"But you've just finished your house - kids would mess it up" - ummm yeah we designed our house renovations with children in mind, and can't wait for them to make a mess in it. 

... and the list goes on.


----------



## coweyes

M2M

I am sorry that the adoption process did not proceed  .  This is something i have personally been thinking a lot about lately and my biggest worry that that we would be declined for what ever reason, so big hugs to you both.

I think the most hurtful comments come from family and friends and the worst thing about it is they don't mean it! So being rude or telling them what you think just leaves you feeling guilty, well that's how i feel.  I just end up feeling isolated and frustrated.  You will receive a lot of support from this sight and be able to talk to people who do actually understand. xxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Fraggles

Hi

M2M - sorry to hear that people have been so insensitive and wish you lots of luck with you donor IUI.

PEESTICK POSSE CALL TO ACTION FOR ALL MEMBERS WHO ARE NOT SNOWED IN OR WHO KNOW SANTA WELL ENOUGH TO HITCH A LIFT ON HIS SLEIGH - PLEASE MAKE YOURSELVES KNOWN

NEED TO VISIT LOTS OF PEOPLE ON M2M'S AND POODLELOVER'S LIST. I SUGGEST APPROPRIATE PUNISHMENT OF BOILERS BREAKING DOWN AND ALL APPROPRIATE REPAIR PEOPLE BEING SNOWED IN OR BOOKED OUT UNTIL 1ST JAN - IS THAT SUFFICIENT ENOUGH?

And Poodlelover hope you get no more cards with insensitive images on.  

Hi Mousky, Izzybear how are you?

F X


----------



## espoir09

coweyes said:


> I am totally convinced that IF is made so much worse due to the world we live in and the majority of people who live in it! eg everyone on about having babies and society being based around family and family living. I am sure there must be a way on letting go of all the negativity and heartache that others cause us, so that we can solely concentrate on whats important, eg our quest to have a baby. Has anyone found any answered?


Hi Coweyes, I've today taken my first positive step on this route and booked an acupunture session - the lady was lovely and understood all about infertility issues and epxlained that acupuncture is aimed at treating the whole of you and helping to reduce stress, tension etc and help get you in the best condition possible to host a little one.

Quite frankly after 3 years TTC, despite being terrified of needles, I'm ready to give pretty much anything a go.

On the topic of stupid things people say, would like to send the PP round to my mother, who advised me "_*to go and have a nervous breakdown*_" as I'm not coping too well with all the PG people round me, most of which were accidents or first attempts.

Who needs enemies with a mother like that?


----------



## Mousky

Ladies,

PL -    you made me rethink my ideas of a (next     ) Xmas baby announcement card   Or maybe I'll only send it to older people with kids? What do you think? I wouldn't want to hurt anyone one's feelings. It's tough   But as we discussed before I'm afraid if people haven't experienced IF they don't think about the possibility of upsetting people with their photocards? Or maybe they're just bad and deserve PP to  and  them   

M2M -   there. Sorry about the adoption situation   Like Coweyes, I fear we would be rejected as well as we don't have a very stable lifestyle - and will not have it UNLESS we have kids   - It's a bummer   Anyways, I would guess your FIL meant well   but maybe PP should have a chat with him    

Fraggles - I think boilers breaking is a great idea  afm, I'm fine, thank you  Considering if I should insist with GP and/or my regular Gynae for some thyroxine coz my TSH levels aren't optimal for women ttc   I got no sympathy from my Fertility cons or 2 endocrinologists I've seen    Maybe I should let it go and see what happens with FET   How are you gearing up for the holidays? 

Espoir - I had acu on my last cycle and I really enjoyed it   I must say my acupuncturist stressed me a bit   as she kept on saying my body wasn't quite ready for a pregnancy etc   but what can I say, it didn't work    As for your mother, I always cut mother's some slack   so I hope she only meant well?  

Izzy - how's your 2ww going?    

Well, ladies, I hope you're OK.
I'm in the south hemisphere at the moment   so no problems with the brutal European weather   Also hope you're not (too) upset with the holidays as I know this time of the year can maximize our frustrations   

  

Mousky


----------



## coweyes

espoir Well done with the acupuncture i used to have it and found it really helpful  I am sorry about your mothers comments, pretty pointless statement for her to make and really not nice either!!  I have begun to realise that people run out of ideas of what to say so just end up making pointless statements!!  My family recently told me to do some exercise as i was off work due to stress (mainly infertility). I mean i do agree but wtf it will not solve my worries for the future.

Mousky I guess everyone who thinks of adoption worries about rejection, i can not really think of any reason why we could not adopt but i am convinced there are loads!

I had a bit of an odd moment yesterday (but nice) my brothers young son of 2 1/2 who i don't really know as they live abroad but he was playing with toys next to me leaning all over me and bubbling to himself.  I suddenly felt a really big rush of love for him and suddenly realized that i could love another child as if it was my own.  My dh has always said this about his sisters 4 children but i have never understood.  If felt really refreshing and i realised that ivf is not the be all to everything.  If felt like a big step forward and has given me a lot to think about.

We are off to Pembrokeshire tomorrow on holiday. rs yourn, i am so worried about the weather! i have my fingers crossed it will all be ok

xxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## espoir09

Coweyes, well done on taking such a huge step forward.  I'm sure feeling more positive about things like this can only help you on your journey.

Thanks everyone for this thread, its nice to know that I'm not the only person who has to deal with stupid stuff like this.

Fingers crossed that everyone gets the best possible Xmas present this year  

Sending baby dust to everyone


----------



## M2M

Thank you so much for the lovely replies - this board is sooooooooo friendly! 

Those of you worrying about adoption and being rejected, try not to - we were, quite clearly, with a very poor agency as we have told our story to a few friends with different agencies and they are shocked and appalled at the way we were treated.  We're in the process of putting in a formal complaint at the moment. So don't worry - I have heard a lot of very good, positive stories about adoption, and it's unlikely you would be using the agency we used. 

Sending lots of baby dust to you all!


----------



## joeyrella

i got back from a weekend away 'celebrating' hubby turning 34 (even older and still not a father was the general theme....) to find a christmas card from a friend's bump     what is wrong with people!?


----------



## coweyes

Joeyrella People really just don't think do they, either that or they just get so court up in their own happiness they don't consider others feelings! People never surprise me xxxxxxxx

Saying that my brother and sil have just come around with there lovely young son.  She is about 16 weeks pg, they did not talk about it once, felt slightly sad that they were trying to be discreet.  But also felt extremely grateful that i was not subjected to pg and baby talk.  I guess she must have realised that my dates would have been the same if i had not miscarried! She always asks how it is going with the ivf but did not ask today.  Was great to see them and will now not see them until after they have the baby as they live abroad. So there are some people who are considerate in this world xxx


----------



## espoir09

Hurray for considerate people.

My (ex) friend was fully aware of our IF and just how badly it was affecting us (me in particular) and just how long she'd been trying.

They came round to announce that they were PG and she sat there for 3 hours rubbing it in that she was PG - we were not allowed to discuss anything else and she took great delight in repeatedly telling us how fertile they were as they had not even really started trying and it was not even their first month of trying.

She also repeatedly mentioned all the wonderful things that her DH had said about the baby and how she had not believed she was PG but he knew she was even when they were getting BFNs.

3 HOURS of torture.  

I thought it would get better after she had got it off her chest, but no she then started sending text messages and emails updating me in great detail about the pregnancy and how little she was enjoying and how awful it was making her feel.

I avoid her now at all costs


----------



## Izzybear

espoir - WTF was your "friend" thinking?    going on for 3 hours, just [email protected]@dy insensitve.

Do you want the Peestick Posse sent round to her to dish out some punishment.......what about laryngitis (sp?) so she cant talk for a while   

Izzy
x


----------



## espoir09

Love the sound of that Izzy thanks!


----------



## Mousky

Joeyrella and Espoir - massive       for you both. We should definitely send PP after them.

Coweyes - your post made me realize how hard it must be for the ones who know about friends/family dealing with IF   What are they supposed to do, how are they supposed to act if/when they are pregnant, having babies? Should they talk about it? Should they just hide it? I would expect most people to be exhilarated about their pregnancies and might not even notice how it must hurt others   

Mousky xx


----------



## Petal-pie

What a great thread!  It is great to have somewhere to vent the stupid things people say.

Stupid comments to me during this IVF cycle

1. My mum; when I told her we had started IVF she just said "WHY?" so I told her because I want a puppy!

2. My Mum; When I told her I was off work for a week about 5 weeks into the IVF she asked me if I had been having a lot of performance done?  So I asked if she ment IVF treatemtn then yes.

3. DSIL; The day my early M/C was confirmed my DSIL said it will be your time next, when she found out it was my second M/C she said Oh well I had 2 M/C before I had Lauren, you'll befine next time.

4. DH; 4 days after my 2nd M/C my DH wanted to know when his happy wife would be back.

All in the last 3 weeks.  Oh the joys of well meaning people.

Petal x


----------



## Izzybear

Petal Pie

Why dont you invite these people for Christmas Dinner and serve them undercooked Turkey, that'll keep them quiet for a few days or is that just too mean - sorry!  

You just gotta laugh, it keeps the crying at bay


----------



## espoir09

I've posted a couple of stupid things people have said, but maybe we need a thread about wonderful people who have supported us?

My in laws have been fantastic.  They have not questioned my reaction to their other son's second child, just given me massive hugs and told me how sorry they are for our pain.

Asked how things are going every now and again and if there's anything that they can do to help or anything we need, but other than that they have just loved us and helped us book nice holidays to give us something to look forward to.

They are truly wonderful and I must not forget how lucky I am to have them.


----------



## Izzybear

espoir your inlaws sound the like the ideal inlaws, can I borrow them to show mine the way pls?? 

Ours dont know anything because their reaction to my first m/c was bad enough  

I think its lovely that they support you and encourage you to look forward to things
Izzy
x


----------



## Fraggles

Espoir, your thread sounds a great idea, can you set it up?

F x


----------



## guider

i'd love to join you all on here if you don't mind a gate crasher
it's nice to see that we all have to deal with the stupid comments that people make.
we have chosen not to tell any of our families at the moment knowing the sorts of reactions that we would probably get, but even without them knowing both sides have informed us on more than one occasion how much trouble they have had getting pregnant, my mum even told me how much trouble my sister had, she was married one year when she was pregnant and there is just over 2 years between her 2.

I am also very lucky to have some other people I have been able to tell who have been great, it's strange the people you confide in at times, I was talking to a customer at work about it today, she has know for months as I used to do her blood tests, which meant i was shut in  a room with her, we used to have great chats about anything an everything, she looked at me one day before she knew about it (was in the middle of treatment) and just asked if everything was ok (god knows what i must have looked like for her to be asking in such a way) she didn't say anymore for a few minutes - maybe as i had a needle in her at the time, but when it was all finished, she just looked at me again, stood near me and opened her arms, poor woman, i burst into tears on her shoulder, 
now whenever she comes in, she just asks a quick 'everything ok?' sort of question.


----------



## joeyrella

another day another opportunity to feel like punching someone!    
i know people are generally overjoyed at their little bundles of joy but really.  a close friend who knows exactly how long we've been ttc sent me an email today, no message just three photos of her six month old baby dressed up as santa claus - the one she had when she had known her partner five minutes and 'wasn't even trying'.  
you'll probably not hear from me tomorrow, i'll have choked to death from one of my friends actually shoving a baby down my throat.  
i get the idea - they're fertile i'm not - can't they just give me a christmas without parading it in front of me every opportunity they can possibly get?


----------



## espoir09

Big hugs Joeyrella  

And don't worry I'll come round and sort them out


----------



## espoir09

Izzybear said:


> espoir your inlaws sound the like the ideal inlaws, can I borrow them to show mine the way pls??
> 
> Ours dont know anything because their reaction to my first m/c was bad enough
> 
> I think its lovely that they support you and encourage you to look forward to things
> Izzy
> x


Hey Izzy

I would lend you them, but unfortunately their influence has not worked on my own mother who just seems to be out to make the whole thing harder for us!

Fraggles, will have a go at setting up a new thread, but I'm completely techno-useless, so it may not work!


----------



## Mousky

Joyrella - some more       to you! Your friends are definitely begging for PP visit


----------



## topaz7

Hi, it's been a while since I posted here.

I received a Christmas card this morning addressed to me, DH + family...

I know it's supposed to be the thought that counts, but when it's late and addressed to the family we don't have, it seems pretty thoughtless to me!


----------



## poodlelover

Another job for the PP methinks  Some people...
PL x


----------



## charlie_44

Hi everyone  

It's been a lil while since I posted on this thread but I have been reading and send you all some      Hope everyone is okay getting through Christmas.

Izzybear - you had me chuckling at serving people undercooked turkey to keep them quiet     

Our friends (who are aware of our situation) and their two year old son came to see us last week and for the whole time they were here they complained about how hard work it was having a lil one and that mum only gets one days rest from him per week when his grandad looks after him.  She even said she shouldn't have had him and wished it was just her and her husband still.  I told them they were really lucky but they just said 'wait till you have them then you'll know how it feels'     

I'm aware that children are hard work and people are entitled to have a moan about it but not constantly to people who can't have them   and not once did they say they wouldn't be without him though!  If everyone had to go through what everybody on FF does there would be a lot of better parents i'm sure!

Charlie x


----------



## Izzybear

Charlie

My sister moaned all the way through her pregnancy, from the day she found out to the day she gave birth and shes still at it now saying its such hard work and so tiring.  Just have to smile sweetly though and hope when I get there I will enjoy every second of it

Izzy
x


----------



## guider

Izzybear said:


> Charlie
> 
> My sister moaned all the way through her pregnancy, from the day she found out to the day she gave birth and shes still at it now saying its such hard work and so tiring. Just have to smile sweetly though and hope when I get there I will enjoy every second of it
> 
> Izzy
> x


we were with my sister and her 2 at the weekend, my mum always used to say how my uncle (her brother) used to visit us, wind me and my sister up and leave quickly for my parents to pick up the pieces.
the strangest thing was to watch my sister and her hubby wind the kids up themselves until teasing a 7 year old about having a girlfriend (he sat next to a girl at the carol service) he ran from the room crying.
when he calmed down and came back they had exactly the same conversation and wondered why the same thing happened.

she moaned all through her pregnancy, moaned like anything when at less than 1month he was waking her at 6am, having only woken once at 11pm just before they went to bed and to see how they treat them now i really wonder why they bothered with having children


----------



## Lemonie

Having read a lot of the comments I am so glad that only 2 people know of my situation.  One is my acupuncturist, the other is a close friend that lives in another country - lol
Knowing that my plight would be treated as gossip through the family grapevines was enough for me not to say anything and to make DH promise not so say anything, but it seems if you tell people there is heartache, if you don't tell people there is heartache.
Managed to get through Xmas with the in-laws where I had to share a room with DH's dopey d-i-l who went to her 3mth scan in October and was told that the due date was 2wks later - no joke! - btw, her second 'accidental pg'
And now I will have to endure tomorrow night with a v good friend who has found out to be pg and is intent on telling everyone what a wonderful Christmas they have had with the news whilst I'm dealing with v painful period pains - but then saying that if I ever saw two little lines appear on the peestick the whole neighbourhood would hear my scream.  At least with me not telling my friend I know that she is not being insensitive and I wouldn't want her to dilute her happiness especially as she made great efforts to make me the first person she told of her condition!
Just want to say that I am not looking forward to tomorrow night especially as it'll be without alcohol!
But I also wanted to wish you all a happy, healthy and fertile 2010
XX


----------



## Mousky

Ladies,

I'm passing by to send you all a big  and best fertile wishes for the coming year.

[fly]*HAPPY 2010!!!*[/fly]

Mousky


----------



## Izzybear

Mousky

Thanks and right back at ya  

Izzy
x


----------



## joeyrella

my mother has been at it again.  this time my aunty is looking to make a bit of space and has a cot in her attic she is looking to get rid of. did i want it 'to put away for the future?'.  this is the same aunty who gave my mother a box of baby stuff my cousin's son has grown out of to put by for me, at least she gave it with the disclaimer that she didn't know if she was doing the right thing, my mother just wades right in there.  i was quite short with her and said tell aunty to just throw it out, throw the whole lot out.  she said 'well the thing is, its too good to throw out - these things are expensive you know!'  thanks for that pearl of wisdom mum.  facing the prospect of shelling out £6000 on icsi, somehow i'm finding it hard to have sleepless nights over the - drop in the ocean in comparison to that - cost of kitting out a nursery if we are lucky enough for that time to ever come.


----------



## guider

i know what you mean, once you start spending thousands on Tx, the small amount that we'll save with second hand clothes will barely notice
and i don't know about you, but going through all this, if i can still afford it i can't wait to hopefully one day be able to go and and shop for these things myself


----------



## shortie66

Hello ladies  

Thought id pop on here and have a whinge about my bil and his missus who have 2 beautiful little girls aged 2 and 4.  The past few months they have done NOTHING but moan about how much hard work the kids are how they never get any sleep cos the little ones wake in the night how they are always running here there and everywhere for them and after them   Drives me mad    Feel like saying well if ur that fed up of them u can have our lives and we'll have ur's and ur kids.  Wouldnt be so bad but they have a cleaner and someone does their ironing for them.  Come and join the real world u bleedin idiots.


----------



## Izzybear

Joeyrella - I thought I could hear someone screaming, it was you wasn't it?!  

I agree with guider, when we get there, AND WE WILL, why wouldn't we want to go shopping for own things    ok so after paying for treatment, money will be tight but won't it be worth it

Katie Cluck- this sort of thing drives me mad too.  Makes you wonder, how did they think parenthood was going to be eh?!

Izzy
x


----------



## Bellini

Well, after my failed ICSI just before Xmas I was discussing with MrB getting about a tattoo to commemorate my lost baby (AF came 1 day before OTD). Mr B is against tattoos generally but acknowledges that I'd like a star design with "hope" and "patience" to commemorate the embie that we lost, the 3 frosties and the other 2 that didn't make it that far.

Mr B told my mum (he was gently teasing me that I'd look like a chav). She went mentalist at me (I'm 35!!!) so I took mum aside and explained my reasons behind it. 

She said I was making something out of nothing and that everyone in my close family (mum, dad and brother and SIL) think that I should forget it "as it wasn't like I had a m/c and lost a real formed baby" according to them my embryo was just a nothing. 

Well, it wasn't nothing to me. I had to go through hell to get that "nothing" and it was my "nothing". 

I've been upset about it all weekend. How I managed to bite my lip I don't know. I know in some ways it's better than it failed now and not a few months down the line but still my heart is broken.

How can your own mother be so insensitive?


----------



## espoir09

Oh Bellini, sweetheart,  , I'm so sorry  .   your mother.

Some people just don't have a clue how hurtful they are being.

My mother told me that I should go and have a nervous breakdown, whereas my MIL is one of the most supportive people I know - go figure.

Of course you have lost something and something very precious at that.  I'm so sorry and I think your tattoo is a lovely idea.  Don't listen to your family on this one


----------



## Bellini

thank you


----------



## coweyes

Bellini

God some people, guess its not really about what they think is a good idea or not, its about being tactful and thinking about others feelings.  Why do some people think its ok to "know more than us about infertility or how we should feel about it". People have empathy when someone dies or you have a relationship brake up.  But o no "just relax and it will happen!" when it comes to infertility, or "i had a friend who tried for so long she gave up hope and got on with life and it just happened". it may just happen, but it also may not It cheeses me right off!!!!


----------



## shortie66

Bellini have what you want on ur body its sod all to do with anyone else     

Coweyes agree with u on empathy unless ur one of my ex-friends.  After nursing my father through terminal cancer i rang my friend to say that he had passed away.  Her reply "i bet you feel better now dont you"       Ermmmmm let me think about that..... NO I FCUKING DONT YOU STOOOPPPPPID COW. We fell out properly after my mom died and i havent seen her since, nor do i want to


----------



## guider

Katie - how could someone say that about your father, i'm surprised you left her standing. i know when someone is suffering we often think it would be better for their suffering to end, but those of us left behind never want them to go, we are the ones left with the hugh gaping hole in the jigsaw,

and that doesn't matter whether it is an adult, child, unborn child, or embryo that 'isn't really formed' 

bellini - i know exactly what you mean, i never made it to OTD and although i imagine a miscarriage would be worse, it felt awful and something that i have really struggled to get past


----------



## coweyes

katie cluck said:


> Bellini have what you want on ur body its sod all to do with anyone else
> 
> Coweyes agree with u on empathy unless ur one of my ex-friends. After nursing my father through terminal cancer i rang my friend to say that he had passed away. Her reply "i bet you feel better now dont you"      Ermmmmm let me think about that..... NO I FCUKING DONT YOU STOOOPPPPPID COW. We fell out properly after my mom died and i havent seen her since, nor do i want to


God sorry to here that, some people are just born with that unthoughtful arrogant streak. xxx


----------



## shortie66

Guider luckily for her it was only a phone call.

Coweyes she was a c u next tuesday and looking back a proper selfish cow


----------



## Terrified!

When I went in for my Lap and Dye I was sat next to a couple who had just found out they were having twins. They were cooing over the scan picture and telephoning family! I just wanted to leave! 

xxx


----------



## guider

Terrified! said:


> When I went in for my Lap and Dye I was sat next to a couple who had just found out they were having twins. They were cooing over the scan picture and telephoning family! I just wanted to leave!
> 
> xxx


last cycle we kept being told that when we were having ec and et if we wanted to discuss anything privately we could go into a separate room
it wasn't a problem discussing things behind curtains on the small ward, the issue was more hearing other peoples discussions, 
we only had one egg collected, therefore only the choice of putting one back, and having to listen to other people trying to decide how many to have put back, and what would be best, this one doesn't sound as good grade
all i wanted to do was scream, that we hadn't worried too much about the grading of ours, there were no options.


----------



## Izzybear

Bellini I am generally against tattoos (even tho DH has lots) BUT I think your idea is lovely.  

Cant believe how insensitive your mum was, maybe you should take her to the tattoo parlour with you and hold her down while they tattoo the word "nothing" somewhere prominent on her.  I dont think she would think it so insignificant then - ooooh I can have some mean thoughts when I think too hard   sorry

Katie Cluck, having lost a parent recently myself, I am amazed at how some people just dont care enough about their Mum & Dad and think that they will live forever (as I once did think).  Sorry for your loss  

Terrified - it seems that lots of hospitals lump together any event remotely related to maternity, whether it be good or bad, with no thought to separate the deliriously happy from ladies like us who go through the mill and come out the other end feeling wrung out

Izzy
x


----------



## Mousky

Bellini -    love the drink   Even though I'm not a tattoo kinda gal I had the same idea after my BFN last Sep. I ended up settling for a plush  that's sitting on the headboard of my bed, close to my rosaries. I never had a m/c (maybe a biochem) and my heart goes out to the ladies who had them. But my embryo was not a nothing! And neither was yours    

Espoir - I remember the breakdown advice  

Coweyes - I got those lovely advices from my endocrinologist   

Katie - I think I've already told this here but my best friend (we've known each other for over 20 years!) told me after I explained my father was about to die that he would get better and that I should "send her news". He died 4 days after this, it's been a year (this month) and she NEVER called me, emailed, nothing! I obviously haven't sent her any news   

Terrified and Guider - How bizarre it is that we have to go through all these tx, procedure things in the middle of all these pregnant ladies? At the hospital where I had my EC, the whole thing is done at the maternity ward!!     I must say it didn't bother me at all to be wheeled back and forth in the middle of all those ultra happy I just had a perfect beautiful baby ladies (kept thinking in 9 months it will be me!) but I'm sure it must bother many women  

Izzy -   there. Any thoughts on what's next?  

Mousky


----------



## Izzybear

Hi Mousky 

Starting again at a new clinic is my next plan, going for a full fresh cycle.  Been to update out of date bloods today and should get them through ready for appt.  I expect it will be a few months before we actually   again so ttc natuarlly in the meantime.  It will be nice to get back to some normality and   as it feels like we were in and out of treatment ALL last year.

Whats happening with you? Any NY resolutions?

Izzy
x


----------



## joeyrella

bellini
it amazes me that people think you have to have had a miscarriage to justify feeling like you've lost a baby.  i am grieving every day for the family i always assumed i would have.


----------



## espoir09

I certainly go through a bereavement process every month.  I hope and pray that each month will be the month and for those 14 days, I love and cherish my potential little pumpkin seed and grieve when it doesn't come to fruition.

I really don't think that people outside the IF process understand that part of it

Maybe they would be more sympathetic if they did?


----------



## Mousky

Yes, ladies.

I think we have a whole different approach due to IF  
I often heard from people who went for elective abortion that it was only a bunch of cells   well, I certainly feel different  

Izzy - I know how you feel re being in and out of tx. I've been on a break since Sept and now I see it was the right thing to do. I hope you can relax a bit and enjoy some   Well, I started some meds to bring down my unpredictable AF   When it arrives I start bcp (for about 2 cycles) then appt with cons to plan FET. Will probably d/r for a few weeks, then progynova for another few   Of course, all this while   for my     to survive the thaw    

   to all.

Mousky


----------



## coweyes

Its odd how people see it.  I think that the innocence of getting/being pg is totally taken away from people who have IF issues.  The only way i got through having an ectopic and miscarriage was to believe it was just a bunch of cells though.  I am not saying abortion is right or wrong but people see early pg as so so many different things.  xxxxxx


----------



## Fraggles

My friend has had lots of fertility treatment, she had one child and whilst gets pregnant, has miscarried several times. One time she has to go into hospital to have an op to remove her miscarried child. It turns out her husband (who she has stayed with as they already have a child) had an affair. His mistress heard she was in hospital and phoned and said your suspicions are true and I can come over now and tell you the truth so my friend wanted to know and the mistress turns up and tells my friend what has gone on. Knowing full well that she has just had an op for her miscarriage. Stupid *** of an ex mistress is now dating his best friend.


----------



## Mousky

Fraggles - what a story!   and what a mistress and best friend!  

Coweyes - I don't really believe in the right/wrong concept   I guess we're all trying our best   I have no problems with people thinking an embryo is just a bunch of cells. Maybe they are. My problem is I believe if someone needs to grieve over a lost embryo, they shouldn't be criticized like some ladies here have been   Anyways, I'm sorry to hear about your ectopic and m/c. It must be really tough


----------



## coweyes

mousky

I could not agree with you more, and i also can not stand others telling you how to feel.  My friend lost her baby at 41 weeks, she also had an early miscarriage before.  She could not really understand why i did not greave  my lost baby (her words).  She presumed that i was not coping well and that it would come back to bit me later.  I was a little annoyed that she could not except that we don't all see things the same way.  But know she only meant well so did not say anything. xx


----------



## Izzybear

Mousky good luck with the FET, what is bcp?


----------



## Mousky

birth control  I have pco and my ovaries get really active. The bcp helps calming things down a bit not to mention it allows us to time everything


----------



## poodlelover

Fraggles~ what a shocking story! That other woman needs  cant believe how heartless some people are. What goes around comes around with any luck..

The more tx we have the less we are seeing our embies as a bunch of cells. Now starting to think in terms of we should have 6 kids by now had the treatments worked. Not too good for our mental health !! It's true that IF takes away the innocence/joy of ttc and early pg as it just is not the same for us and don't think it ever will be. I cant see how I will ever not feel slightly envious of people who just fall pg without any effort/grief.

PL x


----------



## coweyes

poodlelover

I agree i still find this situation very odd.  I often feel as if i have a "dirty little secret" when i meet new people and dont really know how much to say/not to say.  The situation has become such a big part of my life but has never felt very socially excepted! Not to say that's every ones fault! Very odd and unfortunate xxxxxx


----------



## Mousky

PL - How are you? I agree with what you said and obviously would prefer to have done it the traditional way   but now that we're on it, I must say I find special to witness the process since the very beginning. My mother always told me she knows exactly when I was made   One way or another, I'm seeing it all on the monitors   Just trying to focus on the bright sight  

Coweyes - know what you mean as we haven't told anyone   couldn't stand putting up with the ' be positive', 'it'll work' etc. So the dirty little secret is constant


----------



## guider

Mousky said:


> My mother always told me she knows exactly when I was made  7


my mum always tells me she knows exactly when i was born, it was in a small cottage hospital, 
there were 3 people in the room


the midwife to look after mum
my dad to hold blankets etc for me
my mum to check the time

didn't she have anything else to be doing at the time?


----------



## Mousky




----------



## poodlelover

Mousky and Coweyes

M~am ok. Looking forward to mtg with Dr George next wk. Bit worried about what he may say tho

C~IKWYM about "a dirty little secret" it's not really a subject that I feel I want to talk about socially. For many reasons I suppose. Although was watching daytime TV yesterday and thinking one of us should go on just to shed a bit of light on the subject and make people understand what we go thru. Maybe when I feel I could speak without turning into a jibbering wreck I may volunteer. Is so unlike me, usually I am vvv vocal! I even did a speech at my own wedding!

PL x


----------



## espoir09

You go PL - I'll come along for moral support

I don't know if anyone else saw the Gavin & Stacy Xmas special?  I was so cross, I nearly wrote into the BBC.

I think it trivialised the whole IF issue (they'd been trying for 1 year with no success, they got tested and he had a low sperm count, had a bit of anguish, heart to heart with his dad and then suddenly she was pregnant) and I was furious that the heartache which so many people go through was made out to not be a big deal at all.

I'm sick of all the baby product ads and if I have to see that bl**dy advert one more time with the pregnant couple in the kitchen who are "just starting out", I'm going to throw something at the TV.  

OK, I think that maybe the PMT again sorry


----------



## poodlelover

Yes I did see Gavin and Stacey! Felt exactly the same. When it seemed like they were going to tackle IF I thought great, hope they do it well and then the writers just seemed to cop out and go for the easy option!! V disappointed.

Agree with u about the ad as well 

PL x


----------



## Tama

espoir09 & PL totally agree with you about Gavin & Stacy! Was taking to a friend from FF yesterday and we both said that they should never start something like that and then just cop out. I knew it was never going to tackle anything as it was too late in the series and there wasn't the time. Maybe we should all be writing to the BBC   I think it just gives the average person more stupid things to say coz they see things like this on TV and then we end up with comments like 'relax it will happen' 'don't stress and it will happen' etc. Programmes like that just make it all look so easy.

Sorry rant over  

Hope everyone had a good Christmas and New Year and I really hope 2010 is a wonderful year for all of us.

Tx


----------



## MissyMinx

Hi Ladies, 

Have just been having a read through this thread and I'm literally in   at people's insensitivity - it never fails to amaze me.  Sending you all  

The whole 'secret' thing was brought home to me once when we went to a friend's birthday party, it was a week after a BFN, and we were still feeling very raw.  Within a few minutes of getting there, we realised that word had somehow got around, and I was greeted by people I'd only met once or twice previously saying sympathetically that they'd heard our news.  I was mortified!!!  I'd only told 3 people, and they'd just made it common knowledge.  It's one thing appreciating people's good will and sympathy, it's quite another to be the subject of gossip!  

As it was this night, people got progressively more and more drunk, until eventually a 'friend' who was absolutely hammered came up to us and draped his arms around our shoulders, before slurring that we should 'forget about all this IVF b*ll*cks, you just need to get p*ss*d and sh*g more often.'  DH and I were just in shock.  We left at that point, and  I've never really felt the same about the people who were at that party since.  

For our next tx, we kept it very much to ourselves, and we'll do the same for the one we're preparing for now too.  I always think that whilst people want to know because they're rooting for our success, at the same time - there's a hint of voyeurism in there too, they like to be kept in the loop!  I've become quite protective over what we tell people, whilst I'm not ashamed of needing fertility tx, I see no reason to have to discuss my fallopian tubes with people I barely know!!!  

What I have noticed is that because we're having fertility tx, people seem to have a strange sense of entitlement to know where we're up to, I feel certain that if we were trying naturally for a baby, no-one would ask us what positions we were using etc  

I think I've been upset by so many people's crass remarks over the last 5 years of ttc that I am always on the defensive now, I really do feel that unless you've experienced infertility it's impossible to truly understand.

Sending you all  

Love,

Em.x


----------



## kitten77

TOTALLY agree about the gavin and stacy thing. when they started me and DH thot...oh hold on, someone mentioning it....then all of a sudden shes pregnant!!! if only it was that easy! it made me sooo angry i cried!!!!! and like already been said now people who dont know anything abotu infertility thinks its that easy! made me mad.

Missyminx - totally agree with _'there's a hint of voyeurism in there too, they like to be kept in the loop'_ as i feel the same. one SIL who feels bad cuz she is left out when we go thro tx! my god, if that was the only thing i had to worry about i would be happy. that makes me angry.

actually im quite angry at the world today! haha. must be PMT for me to!


----------



## livity k

Hi 

I thought the Gavin and Stacey thing was quite ok in some ways- i think briefly they did address the issue and the emotions on getting bad news, but what p***ed me off was that they didn't mention IVF/ICSI at all, it was all try naturally and then adoption- I kind of think it is understandable that a short comedy series will speed things up but I do think they should at least put the right info out there- the way it was you could think there were no solutions to low sperm count at all- and actually informing people could help someone who had just had that news, 

I also know about the voyeur element mentioned but I do think with selected people the more you tell them the easier it is as there are less assumptions made, 

that guy at the party sounds like a prat, 

K x


----------



## espoir09

I don't speak to my mother anymore. Back when I was waiting for my 1st set of test results I told her and my sister that we were having problems and getting tests done. Within a week, she had told my aunt, my aunt's husband and her best friend.

We explained that it was not something we wanted to be public knowledge and that she was not to tell anyone else.

She then phoned me to say she'd decided she should tell my grandad, so she already had. I asked her again not to tell anyone else as apart from anything else DH's parents didn't know at that point.

When I went into hospital for the lap&dye, I told my dad (she had refused to - the only person she *wouldn't* tell!) I also decided to let my brother know, only to find out he already knew, courtesy of my mother.

I told her again that it was not gossip to be spread round and that we did not want everyone to know, as its extremely private and intimate. She then told me that she had told my aunt's friend as she had asked why we didn't have kids after being married for 2 years.

I told that that was the end of the line and she was not to tell anyone else under any circumstances.

She announced in October that she had told her sister in law.

It is like a dirty little secret. I feel guilty that I cannot provide my darling DH with the children he deserves and v ashamed that I cannot do the one thing that women are put on this earth for. I feel like a complete failure.

I have found with a few people (and one particular friend, but then I should have known better) that they like to be kept up to speed as it makes them feel superior


----------



## Mousky

Ladies,  

PL - Hope Dr George can help you out   

espoir - I could quote so many things from your post I couldn't agree more   I must say I feel like I'm hiding something huge (well, guess I am) from my mother and brother. Specially my brother coz even though he's only 23, we got a very nice relationship (also DH loves him). But I sometimes think it's too late to tell now. And once I tell them, I kept this secret from them coz I didn't trust them blablabla   feel terrible   I think it will be OK though   But it's like you said, I don't want to be quoting my pelvic scans, my menstrual cycle or DH's   I'm not ashamed of IF but not sure I (nor they) would be comfortable discussing my cervix  

On the tv front, I haven't seen it but I obviously everything is so easy on tv. No one ever goes through tx. If they happen to go through it, it works like magic... I'm also not sure those people who are often mentioned in newspapers articles (those who aren't happy about their tax money paying for ELECTIVE fertility treatments) are willing to watch it. So the tabu continues  

 to all.

Mousky xx


----------



## GirlGamer

Hi girls, i havent been on FF for a while till recently again, was here for a couple of months in the summer but found it too painful. u know how it goes this jmourney sometimes u cope some u dont some u wanna curl up in your dark place sometimes u just neeed a big hug..well ive read all thru this thread and las t year did put my own stupid comments ive had in the past on the other older thread. i wondered if i cud join the PP? (see sig for credentials). i took the liberty yesterday of assuming i cud and did first part of iniciation  ...
Im a hairdresser and have a client who is the most arful nastt horrible woman u wud like to meet. the trash that comes out of her mmouth. she sez the most horrid things about close family members. is rude. and out loud racist in my salon in front of anyone client or not whos in there...well she has 2 granddaugthers il call A and B who are sisters. Well A was trying for a baby for about 2 or 3 years. and in that time B got preg straight away by accident just months before her wedding. had boy in 2008. A still trying and went to investigate re IF.  client did nothing but Bleep A off to my face  bout shes only wants a baby coz B has one. shes just jealous, when she shes B's DS she keeps picking him up she wont leave him alone.. i cud go on. alot more!  then i didnt see her over the summer phew! she used to break me heart with her IF comments on top of her nastiness. then she came back in sept. had the news that A was (finally) preg and due in jan. she was furious about it. " A hates pain, shel never stand labour, shel never cope, its all just jealousy" etc. and she said that A had only been trying 2 months (lie i know for fact) and why did a doc give a healthy young woman tx (she had clomid) and shes not even married   they should save it for married couples coz they want babys more. on top of that im fed up with her telling me how her hubby got her preg 3 times at the drop of a hat. i now wanna punch her     she does have memory loss and telss me same stuff each week, drives me mad. i do stick up for us IF to fall on deaf ears. then B got preg again another accident. she MC at 9 weeks (sorry) . client was mortified at B's loss even tho she had DS (u nknow wot i mean here) and was taken to New York for a holiday imediatly to get over the MC ( i never even got a hug over my icsi embies) client said how A must feel really bad now coz shess till preg and hope she doesnt shove it in B's face ,how it wasnt fair etc. so moving on to yesterday, shes been unusually nice to me over xmas. i did give her a rollocking over phone about messing me about with appts. yesterday i thought maybe she isnt that bad after all till she repeated A's jealousy again and her reason for having a baby so when i went to make her coffeee..... i cudnt resist. and bloody spat in it    ...

long post but thanks for reading  

off to get ready for work, il say hi again later. nice to meet u all
and   for everyone xx


----------



## butsy

have been reading with interest - can't believe some of the people out there!  With reference to media coverage (TV shows in particular) I think it's about time there were some realistic portrayals of couples struggling with their fertility.  It seems that stories either over-simplify (a la Gavin and Stacey - although we have to realise it's just a sit-com) or imply that women going through treatment are unstable, over-emotional monsters who feel compelled to steal other people's children (anyone remember eastenders a while back?).  I can't think of a single story line that depicts what it's really like.

many shows have gone to great lengths to be realistic in their depictions of mental health problems (I work with people with severe mental health problems, and have been quite impressed with some stories in the soaps recently), which is often considered to be one of the few remaining taboos.  Perhaps it's time there was a more open dialogue about what is becoming quite a common, and extremely emotional, problem....

apologies, rant over - may be we should arrange to speak with the media about how IF is portrayed??


----------



## coweyes

Poodlelover, you did a speech at your wedding day ha ha great.

I don't tell people that i don't know, eg like at a gathering but if i know someone to a degree and they ask i generally say.  I can talk about it with little emotion as i have tried to learn how to tell people it with out them feeling sorry for me.  So if someone says "do you have children" i normally say, " its quite difficult for us but we hope to have ivf soon" or something like that.  I try to say it positively, other people tend to respond quite well.  I like it when people ask me about it all, even if there misguided, i feel like i am education them over something that they may well have been pretty narrow minded about before. xx


----------



## joeyrella

back on the G&S i really, really wish that one day the 'happy ending' would be not an immediate surprise pregnancy, but that the couple would still be infertile but would still have a good life and be happy.
girlgamer - i love the spitting in the coffee story.  reminds me of when my ex moved his new girlfriend into 'our' house within a matter of weeks so i let myself in and dipped all her make up brushes in the toilet.  she'll never know, but it made me feel so much better.


----------



## espoir09

I'm extremely impressed by your imaginations - I could never think up these things.  I have to settle for mean thoughts!


----------



## GirlGamer

Jus thought id say hi properly now ladies, dont know why i botherred going into work this week hardly anyone cud make it! with bloomin snow  
 *waves*
i do non contact martial arts btw so if the PP need me just let me know, ive been a ninja before now (for charity) i can soon don the outfit again, and with being a big time Girl Gamer think of me as a cross between Lara Croft and Bruce Lee  
Hope yr all well xxxx


----------



## poodlelover

BUTSY~good idea about speaking to the media bt reality of IF and IVF. Only realistic story I remember (showing me age now) was Brookside one of the Nolan sisters played woman going thru IVF.

Joeyrella~love the dipping the brushes in the loo thing. Worst thing I ever did was letting tyres down on ex boss' car one winter night when AA v busy she was stuck for hours!!!! Oh and let the dog lick DH's sandwiches when he really p*****d me off!! 

Dont mess with the PP!!! 

PL x


----------



## GirlGamer

thnkas fraggles i can think of plenty of close family and friends that id like to stick a pee stick right up there BLEEP   dont mind getting my ninja forces to help for other folk   from wot ive read so far theres plenty on here that deserve something!
one of mine (said before on old thread) was my ex MIL said on the phone to OH(while i was on 2ww after icsi) "dont know why u wanna bring kids into this world with the state its in" (her only chance of a grandchild) ..never forgave her  
my dad telling me just as my nephew was born that day, that my life "was just tough **** and to get on with it" even tho at that time may have lost my home and business (didnt tho  )
theres loads!
GGxx


----------



## charlie321

Hi all! Great thread  

I'm relatively new but have posted here and there. Haven't yet started treatment (still having tests) but I found this link and couldn't resist telling you all what stupid things people have said to me. I hope you don't mind me joining in :  

Been married (and ttc) for 2 and half years and I work in a shop in a small community (big town but small minds!) and loads of my customers have since then been looking for a bump. The reps too! Anyway, I put on a bit of weight (lets just say 1 stone   )and all of a sudden people started asking: "are you expectig the sound of tiny feet.." and "Ooooh look at you you must be pg" (whilst putting hand on my fat gut!!!  ) and once someone came in and said "oh its not long for you then". I wasn't quite sure what they were on about so I just nodded then she said "how far gone are you" and with that the penny dropped and I went red and said no I'm just fat. She ran out the shop saying "Oh that was someone else who told me you were pg" (quite funny really) but I was furious, horribly embarassed and REALLY upset cos we knew we were having probs by then. I felt like quitting my job there and then but can't afford to! My advice now is NEVER work with the general public.  It was all very degrading hearing those things nearly everyday for a year (i've now lost a bit of weight but that wasn't cos of them). I didn't want to tell people we were ttc and now going to have tx as I don't think that would help me - frankly its none of their bees wax!. 

Hope that wasn't too long winded for you. I've been here ages writing and reading it (I'm v indecisive)!

Charlie
x

Ps I agree that TV progs don't really study this subject. I didn't watch the last couple of Gavin and Staceys cos I got fed up with how simple it all was.


----------



## joeyrella

oh no charlie, that must have been awful.  one of my biggest fears is someone asking if i'm pregnant because my weight is always going up and down.


----------



## MissyMinx

Hi Charlie, 

   My weight also fluctuates dramatically (damn PCOS!) and I once, shortly after yet another BFN, had someone stand up to offer me their seat on the tube thinking I was pregnant.  It couldn't have been further from the truth, but I was so embarrassed I thanked them and plonked myself down in their seat.  I suppose it showed that at least chivalry isn't dead, but of all the times to have good manners!?!    

Seriously though - the general public at large are a nightmare.  There are certain events I simply avoid, because I know I'm going to get hassle about when I'm going to have a baby.  Part of me wants to simply yell something like 'I'M INFERTILE - ALRIGHT?!!' at them, as opposed to doing my usual trick, which is to get stuck into the vino (if not appoaching/during tx) and just pretend to laugh it off.

Sending all you ladies   

Love,

Em. x


----------



## espoir09

I know what you mean about wanting to scream it at them sometimes.

DH is very quiet and doesn't talk about things unless I make him. He prefers to stick his head in the sand and pretend everything's ok - well we all have our ways of coping (bless him, his mum, who has been wonderful) asked him how things were going and he told her I'd been given some tablets. She thought it was for my depression, but he was on about the Clomid!!)

Its his birthday on Thursday so I've arranged for us to go to Prague for a few days (snow permitting!) as we both need to get away and have some quality time together. He doesn't even know we're going away.

I've even booked him the time off work. There are 2 girls who work with him who I've got to know quite well. Before we got engaged they were constantly nagging at him to propose to me (it was a sore point between us and their nagging did not help!)

The girl I spoke to immediately started with, well when are you two having babies (we've been married for 2 1/2 yrs ttc for 3, before she was and she now has a 17month old son).

I tried to change the subject, but she wanted answers and then she delivered the killer line

"_we're always on at Tom, isn't it time you too started a family, don't you want kids etc etc etc_

I wanted to cry for him so much. He would love a family and his useless lump of a wife can't even get far enough on to even need to a pee stick test and they're at him every day about it.

He's never said a word to me and it must be killing him inside.

I tried to leave her with the impression that I don't want kids (they think I'm overambitious and too career driven anyway, so they'll believe that) in the hope that then they'll leave him alone.

My poor DH and I can't say anything to him about it because otherwise I'll spoil his surprise


----------



## Izzybear

oh espoir, what a lovely suprise for your DH birthday. Dont take any notice of his girls at work. I used to work in an office where gossip was rife and after each person leftfor mat leave, I used to get "will it be you next?" I didn't leave for this reason but I was glad to move out of there as the number of girls without babies was dwindling.

Have a lovely break in Prague, we thought it was a lovely place, but make sure you wrap up warm, it was freezing when we went!!

Izzy
x


----------



## poodlelover

oh espoir what a shame for your DH! Maybe when ur in Prague you can let him know you know...My DH is just the same wanting to ignore it etc doesnt say anything until it gets unbearable ie over Xmas he went v quiet for a couple of days then eventually blurted out "I'm sick of spending time with other people's kids when is it gonna be our turn FFS!!!" Made me realise he feels it just the same as I do just doesnt cry about it as much!! I see him with other kids and it breaks my heart, I feel such a failure and such a crappy wife. It's our 10th wed anniv this year and I think this wasnt the deal/what we bought into!! 

PL x


----------



## espoir09

It really must be my day for it today.

I had a friend email me with news that our ex-friend gave birth this morning (this is the woman who swore she never wanted children, and walked out on her husband last Xmas without an explanation and then took him for every penny).  

Now I've just had to be all happy and smiles for the last 20 minutes as one of my work colleagues is doing a tour of our floor announcing that she is 13 weeks pg.

This is her 2nd in the time we have been trying.

I've just had to listen to how difficult its going to be for her with 2 of them.

Its so unfair.  What did I ever do that was so wrong that I don't deserve to be a mum.  I'd be such a good mum and DH would be the best dad ever.  Why?  I just don't understand.


----------



## poodlelover

Dunno what to say . Your time will come, never lose hope. Life isnt fair is it. 

Hang in there!!


PL x


----------



## Mousky

Ladies, sending some    

Espoir - I hope you have a nice time in Prague  

PL - must be tough


----------



## Izzybear

Espoir & Poodle lover   

I have something to report, although not as upsetting as some stories on here.

I have been accepted for a job move and was told "we'd like to get you started as soon as possible as X will be showing you the ropes and she will be going on maternity leave shortly" 

GREAT STUFF!!  They aren't to know my circumstances but the irony of it     

I shall make a concerted  effort to sit in her chair at every opportunity as I've been told so many times that's how some people get pregnant    

Izzy x


----------



## butsy

oh if I had a penny for everyone who asked me if I was pg in public!  I work at a hospital, which are usually hot beds of gossip and intrigue.  One junior doctor didn't even bother asking, just announced in a ward round, 'oh I didn't realise you were pregnant'!!!  I just said 'no, having a fat day', she didn't even look embarrassed!  Constantly alert for knowing looks now - every so often a rumour goes around, espacially when I've had a bit of time of for treatment - soooo annoying.

I'm sure I may have done the same before I realised what a difficult and private issue IF is, but I'd like to think I'd have a bit more sensitivity!!!


----------



## espoir09

Izzybear said:


> I shall make a concerted effort to sit in her chair at every opportunity as I've been told so many times that's how some people get pregnant


I'm the only in our department who has a long-term partner and who doesn't have a child or is pregnant. I've sat in every chair going and I've tried water from all the different taps (as I've heard there's also something in the water) but I'm doing something wrong.

Oh yeah that reminds me o my dearest darling mother, who when I turned to her for some moral support and told her for the first time that we were having IF issues, she said "well are you doing it right?"


----------



## GirlGamer

Hi ladies hope every1s well today   ive got the ninja at the ready...
GGxx
ps wish this snow wud just go!


----------



## charlie321

to you all

I'm totally in agreement about trying to avoid situations when you might get asked "when will you be next" etc etc, and always trying to spot when someone is looking at my non-bump.  My DH is also not one to talk about it much but in a strange way I find it better cos I think if I knew he was as desperatley sad about it as I am then i'd feel even worse. He's very supportive in his silence!

the MIL doesn't yet know about our probs but happened to be talking to me about the menopause (great!) and said that its great when you no longer have to worry about periods or getting pg   

x
Charlie


----------



## joeyrella

yeah the menopause is going to be great!  not that there are many differences with how i am now to be honest!
i find the biggest irony is that i'm 29 now, the same age my mother was sterilised because she couldn't stop getting pregnant when she wasn't trying to


----------



## espoir09

sounds like my mum - 3 kids all accidents


----------



## Mousky

Hi everyone  

Joey and Espoir - I find it hard to believe I'm going through it while my father at 53 (though, yes, my mother was on her mid 30s) had no problems with making my perfectly healthy brother  

Mousky xx


----------



## wishy-washy

espoir09 said:


> Its so unfair. What did I ever do that was so wrong that I don't deserve to be a mum. I'd be such a good mum and DH would be the best dad ever. Why? I just don't understand.


That made me cry. I feel exactly the same x

 to everyone.


----------



## Bellini

I wish I could tell my brother to stop moaning about his children (he has 2 and 1 more on the way).

He is 5 years younger than me and yes, they took a long time to get pregnant with no 1 and no 2 (no 3 was a bit of a shock) but I really wish he'd not start each phonecall with "OMG these kids are doing my head in all day long, they won't shut up/stop being naughty etc etc"

Doesn't he know I'd die for those children, to have what he has? I understand parenting isn't all roses round the door but to complain to me about them is just a kick in the teeth.  He should be waking up every day thanking God to hear those little babies crying, saying I love you, making him pretend cups of tea, sitting with him for cuddles etc etc.


----------



## sanielle

My absolute best friend in the wold, who has a hate hate relationship with her MIL was complaining about her to me one day, saying that her MIL had told her her DH and her would never have children (they have 2,and had no problems got preg straight away etc) because MIL had difficulties and herMIL's brother and his wife never got pregnant. 

She says to me. Well they never had kids because they were too bloody selfish to be able to get pregnant! And if you really want kids you settle down and it happens but clearly they never did it properly or they would have had some!! 

I was so gutted. She really didn't see why I was hurt by it at all!


----------



## Irish Dee

Some people.....................................

A friend has just had her 'sexing' scan for her 3rd baby and is 'devastated' that she is having another boy.  She has 2 gorgeous boys already, easily conceived and no problems carrying or having them.  

Does she even realise how lucky she is?  What I would give for a housefull of little people to keep me busy, boys or girls, does it really matter.  

I give up, does she think she is going to get sympathy from me?

Dee


----------



## Tama

Bellini   

sanielle - sorry about your friend some people just don't think   

Dee what a nightmare and no she doesn't deserve sympathy from you or anyone. A child is a child boy or girl! My BF said the same thing to me when she found out she was having a boy and she really wanted a girl. I just looked at her and simply said 'wow, how hard for you to be having a healthy baby boy, what a nightmare'. That drew a line under that one!

It's been very quiet in here. Blimey, does that mean people are getting better due to all the pee stick beatings they've had or is it just a quiet time??  

xx


----------



## Bellini

Tama - thanks for the   

I've decided not to speak to anyone apart from my internet friends and my hubby about our tx because if my mother tells me one more time "it'll happen naturally when I stop thinking about it" I'm going to go into the loft, fetch my "Biology For Life" Book from school and throw it at her!!  

Sperm + Egg = Baby

How hard is it for her to understand that our spermies are slow and few and far between and my eggies don't pop out by themselves due to my underactive thryoid (and when they do they aren't able to "stick")?

grrrr gets on my norks it does!


----------



## poodlelover

Ha ha Tama

Think everyone is on amber alert cos they know the Pee Stick Posse are watching and waiting... 

PL x


----------



## Tama

Bellini people don't think and more often than not they really do think they are helping. I've taken to the direct approach and just telling them point blank that they should either think before they speak or keep it bottoned. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't! x

PL think you are right, they are all keeping under the radar at the moment   x


----------



## Mousky

Hello ladies,

Tama - I hadn't realized your IUI was converted to IVF  How's everything going? 

Bellini -  there.

Dee (and Tama) - maybe your friends could pass on their boys  I would be happy to take them   

Sanielle - that might be the reason why it hasn't worked for us yet   

I was watching It's Complicated (nice relaxed movie with M. Streep and A. Baldwin) with DH and my mother when she comments on the guy giving a sperm sample at the Fertility Clinic "_As a friend_ (he had IF issues and adopted 2 kids)_ says you must really want to have children to go through all this_ " DH and I were giggling (ladies, what can we possibly do at this point? I'm done with the crying) as we haven't told my mother WE are going through this  and the sperm sample issue is the easy part (at least, for us)  I felt guilty for hiding it from her but then again she doesn't have to think about DH, a pot and a hospital loo   Btw, there's no need for sending PP after my mother 

Mousky xx


----------



## Tama

Hiya Mousky. Glad you could laugh about it hun. Yep IUI is now IVF. It's going okay. Never done it before so it's all very new.   I'm staying positive and   for a positive outcome. All I can do I guess. How's things with you? x


----------



## sanielle

Doesn't it make all the sense in the world that if you are trying for more than a year that you are going to think about it? I know most of the women who say these things tried for like a second and then got pregnant, but surely that is what empathy is all about! 

On the other hand someone mentioned women on FF saying similar things, this doesn't bother me as they are living proof that it does happen! I love reading their happy endings and it really does help me "stay positive"! I suppose they just want to remind us even it when it doesn't seem there is any hope there really is!! I just don't like hearing it from smug 19 year olds on their 3rd kid! (ooh *****y..sorry!)


----------



## Buddles

Hope no one minds me gatecrashing this thread slightly as im single and havent started any actual tx yet but hoping to in about a year.

Anyway, I just wanted to add a couple of comments from a "friend" of mine. (I use that term friend loosely about her now!)

(Background history: Known friend for 10 years, i always wanted kids one day, she was adament she NEVER did and looked horrified at the thought. Friend got pregnant by long-distance boyfriend who she only sees once every few months maximum. At 8 months pregnant, friend finds out boyfriend is living with another girl and has been for 5 months. I spend endless long nights at her house comforting a hysterical heavily pregnant woman. I was on call to drive her to hospital when labour started as no one else would. I stayed with her loads during the first 3 months after her little boy was born to help her and i was and still am almost her personal chauffeur as she doesnt have a car etc etc.)

Anyway, I got pregnant accidentally by my (then) long term boyfriend who freaked out and left me the day i told him even though he said he always wanted kids! I was fine doing it alone and told my friend as thought she'd understand. She was fairly disinterested and said she was surprised i was going to keep it seeing as it wouldnt have a father.   I then had an early miscarriage a week later and was a complete wreck and devastated by it and was unfunctional for 2 days. But again i turned to my friend who responded with "well u shouldnt have told so many people then should u!"      
I was completely stunned and just hung up the phone as couldnt believe that was the response when i was crying my eyes out! Felt like saying i dont give a rats behind who knows i just want my baby back!!!! (esp as i only told 2 close friends and my mum!!)

After a few weeks she was back on the phone asking for lifts to places so i obliged. The miscarriage was never mentioned again. 5 months later we went out to the pub for the first time since her baby was born (her parents were babysitting) and we both got quite drunk and on the way home she rambled about her baby and how next time we go out, we should, and i quote, "invite more people that have children cos its not fun just being out with YOU as YOU dont have children and you cant possibly understand how it is to love a child seeing as you LOST yours!!!!"      
I burst into tears on the spot. For some reason im still her friend and chauffeur (prob cos of her little one more than anything) but i'll never forgot her words to me! and shes never apologised!


----------



## livity k

Buddles- Have to say I think your friend wins the prize for worst comment ever- and definitely needs a peestick posse visit,  
good luck with your tx when you get there
K x


----------



## Fraggles

Buddies, I am speechless. Permission to call Peestick Possee to action and dish out suitable punishment.

How thoughtless of her, sending you lots of hugs - you must be such a special person to still be her friend.

Bellini, forget your Biology for Life book, I suggest we get all the books from the biology shelf at the local library and if it isn't too OTT throw them all at her. She might get the message.

Sanielle to your best friend   . Can I share and go grrr at her, I would love to have 'just' settled down and met the 'one or almost one' but unfortunately he hasn't come along so it's not that simple. Come on Peestick Possee I don't know Sanielle's friend and that comment has wound me up. Note to self - just breathe deeply.

F x


----------



## coweyes

Buddles

OMG thats disgusting, i would re consider your friendship or at least let her know that she has upset you and see what she says.  For some unknown reason   she may not have realized some people are just cupid and thick skinned, a lethal combination!

Do you really need her in your life?


----------



## Buddles

Yes unfortunately my friend does have a knack of being a bit dim at times and living in her own little bubble. she rarely realises when shes upset someone. which is prob why i put up with it. but i think she gathered from the crying i was upset.... but i cant be bothered mentioning it to her again now as i honestly dont think she'd understand. Shes always wrapped up in her own problems (which is kind of understandable as shes had her fair share!!) but then she expects everything to be dropped for her regardless of their problems.
Grrr some people are just born and live in their bubble i guess!


----------



## Mousky

Wow, Buddles, I agree with Coweyes. Do you need her in your life? She sounds like a terrible person and let's face it we all have problems. I don't think this an excuse to be a total b**ch


----------



## poodlelover

GGRRRR  I agree with Coweyes!! Do we need these people in our lives?!! 

Peestick Posse to the rescue!! We need an icon for this kind of situation~ have just looked for a suitable one and no joy!!

PLX


----------



## joeyrella

Buddles - it sounds to me like she's being deliberately hurtful, not just insensitive or tactless like most of the comments on this thread are.  is she really a friend if she treats you like that?


----------



## aaa is a MUMMY

omg have just found this thread, having one of those nights when I need FF.

I could write a book about stupid things stupid people say but won't start tonight as might end up getting bit wound up lol

Good luck with everything ladies xx


----------



## Tama

AAA I love this thread hun, it's a great place to rant and also laugh at some of the rubbish people say.   x

Hope everyone is okay  

Tama xx


----------



## poodlelover

Going through a bit of a lull here though innit? Maybe we are due an AVALANCHE of stupidity.Prepare yourselves ladies and gents!

Get the Peestick Posse on standby... 

PL x


----------



## kitten77

well - ive gotta good one! happened only last nite. lets set the scene.  i saw said friend in october after she just got engaged, said friend knows about our failed txs.  her comment last time was 'we have been trying for a couple of months and nothing has happened....i dont wnat to end up like you'   - well thanks very much! 

anyway, she had her wedding just after xmas, last nite was first time i had seen her since, where i was looking at the wedding photos....where the scan photos falls out - (i thot what a crawl way to tell me), so im in a pub, shaking, trying to do the happy smile on my face.  then...... proceeds to tell me how bl00dy typical it was how she tried for 3 months to get pregnant (oh wow 3 whole months!!!) and she then falls just before her wedding so means she cant drink (this is a women who drinks a bottle of wine a nite). 

after moaning about everything. then sighs and says 'im sooooooooooo glad i havent ended up like you' -


----------



## Tama

OMFG!!! Kitten did you not slap her face?   I can't  believe that OMG! How cruel can one person be? Sending you a BIG    I wouldn't be seeing her again any time soon. I know she is your friend but with friends like that.....


----------



## espoir09

I can't find an emoticon with its jaw on the floor, but I need one.

Kitten that's awful.  What a mean thing to do - there is no way that scan picture was accidentally in the wedding photos, and what horrible things to say to you.

Sometimes I really do think who needs enemies when you've got friends like these?

Pee stick posse - attention - quick march - fire at will!


----------



## bankie

OMG Kitten, that's awful!!! I'm in my PP uniform and ready for action - let me at her, let me at her!!    

Seriously hun it never ceases to amaze me how cruel our supposed friends can be, huge hugs to you


----------



## SarahJaneH

Haven't posted on here in a while, but just had to say OMG Kitten, what an awful thing to say. That is downright cruel. Were you not tempted to 'accidentally' spill your drink all over her photos? 

Buddles, sorry your friend was so thoughtless to you too. Honestly do people not ever think?

 to all, PP at the ready...


----------



## wishy-washy

Kitten - sending you a   and really feeling for you. It's hard enough coping with a pg friend let alone one like that. I really can't believe she said that  . Love the tipping your drink in her wedding photos idea.


----------



## Mousky

OMG! Kitten      don't even know how to react to that  

Lots of love.

ps. Tama how's IVF going?


----------



## Tama

Hiya Mousky how are you hun? Hope you're well. Well I had EC and ET and am now on the 2ww   xx


----------



## poodlelover

Kitten~ OMG OMG  !!!! I obviously spoke too soon! What a total B****H!  Isn't it annoying when you are so shocked that you can't think of a response quick enough?! Makes me mad. I don't think I could be mates with her after that. I found it hard enough when a friend got pg a month after her wedding, told me she was 5 weeks pg and it would " be my turn next"!! GGRRR. A real friend would make sure that scan pic was nowhere near you. How you managed not to spit in her face is beyond me!

Tama~ ooh the 2ww eh? 

Still seething... 

PL x


----------



## joeyrella

kitten - people really have no idea how hurtful they are do they?  

our security guard shouted after me on my way out of work today 'still waiting to see you with that bump!' i didn't like to break his heart and tell him he is likely to go blind with looking long before he sees me with a bump!


----------



## butsy

Kitten - what an absolute cow.  we're all better off without people like that.  Don't waste any more time or energy on her.  Sorry if I sound harsh - feeling awful today (got a terrible cold). Just focus on keeping yourself well - you deserve it. xxxx


----------



## Mousky

Joey   

Tama - 2ww it's tough, tough, tough      

PL - yes, this people who get pg naturally are starting to p*** me off     but even worse is the 'it''ll be your turn next' remark. So patronising   As if


----------



## aaa is a MUMMY

mousky so with you on that one, think that has got to be the worse comment ever, god if it was true think we'd all probably be parents to hundreds of kids. The other one that gets me is it will happen when your least expecting it!!! aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrggggghhhhhhh how bloody daft is that!

Have a good weekend everyone xx


----------



## Izzybear

Kitten OMFG, what a nasty "friend".    Loving the idea of spilling drink on her wedding photos 

Tama, congrats on being PUPO

Izzy
x


----------



## GirlGamer

im putting on the ninja outfit as we speak ..kitten who is it again? my blood is boiling at her comment. keep well away.!!!!!!    
GG xx
i get fed up of comments since i got with my DP about so are u gunna have a baby then? and best get on with it yr not getting any younger and the opposite how ive nothing to worry about the whole world and her mother gets caught straight away well into yr 40s ive got ages yet. and grannies at work saying whos gunna do there hair?  and do i think we will decide to try and folks waiting on news just coz they expect it 
GGxx


----------



## Betty-Boo

Kitten honey       she doesn't sound much of a friend to me!!

You take care honey x x x


----------



## charlie321

hello everyone!  

I thought I'd come here to update on previous customers of mine asking when i was due when I was just a bit fat. Well, twice now I've been asked how my kids are!!!! I said to one that I didn't have any and she said...."are you sure?"   ! I replied with "yes I think I'd remember something like that" so when she mumbled something about thinking I was pg, I just told her I was fat and she look so embarassed. 

To Kitten and Buddie - I read what your 'friends' said and I thought they were totally insensitive. What is it with some people?! I wouldn't consider them to be real friends, especially if they just want to use you as cheap transport or someone they can show off to. I don't possess many friends and have only told my closest one that i'm ttc etc but I'm very lucky that she's the sort who'll take my mind off it and cheer me up.  For what its worth my advice would be to find comfort from your real friends and forget the people that make you feel bad about yourself.

have a good week all
x


----------



## guider

i went back into work today after almost 2 weeks of, 
i work in a very small place so it has ended up that everyone knows what i am going through
one of the people i had throught was the most understanding there came out with a great comment

she knew i was taking the time off before i took the time and knew exactly why
so today she seemed to ignore me for most of the morning before finally asking me had i had a nice couple of weeks of (so far so good) then she asked if i had a nice holiday and where i had flown off to
she's one of those that thinks everyone going on holiday must always involve getting on a plane, she also knows why i am off wednesday (OTD) waiting to see where she thinks i have been by thursday


----------



## Bellini

I had the "I think you're worrying about it too much" chat from my work colleague this morning.

If only   I really wish I was still that naiive about the whole thing.

Did relaxing... did it for 18 months and didn't work. Funny thing that


----------



## Izzybear

Bellini - Grrrrrrr I have had that one!

Guider - good luck for OTD

Izzy
x


----------



## vickym1984

I've had the relax thing quite a lot recently as well, as if relaxing cures proven medical issues !


----------



## kitten77

hey everyone, thanks for all your hugs!  still cant quite get over she said it! 

and grrrrrrr with the comments! i had the relax thing as well. and the other one i hate is 'i promise you it will work this time, i have a feeling' - arrrggg - 1) you cant promise anything as you dont know and 2) you have had the feeling the last 5 times and it hasnt worked!!!


----------



## poodlelover

Words fail me ladies  . 
Good luck for OTD Guider 

PL x


----------



## Mousky

Super   to all and best of luck to you Guider


----------



## guider

vickym1984 said:


> I've had the relax thing quite a lot recently as well, as if relaxing cures proven medical issues !


don't think my boss would be happy if people could stop taking all their tablets and just relax to cure themselves


----------



## Izzybear

Hi Ladies

I have a stupid thing said to report, woman I work with said today that someone was to have their 2nd termination and given the time of year she must have had a good christmas but now be regretting it.  I have had to have 2 terminations but not because I bloody well wanted to......  Just wanted to slap her face but somehow managed to hide it    

Phew, rant over

Izzy
x


----------



## kitten77

oh izzy - sorry to hear that you had to hear that horrible comment! arggghhh!!!!! 

people gossip but they dont know peoples situations.


----------



## lou74

Hi,

Just found this thread. God some people are so stupid and insensitive!  Just thought i'd share a few of the stupid things people have said to me.

"I promise you will have a baby" - ok, is there something you know that i don't?  If so please share!  One of my best friends says this everytime we have bad news and who took 6 months to conceive 1st baby and bawled her eyes out every month when her af came.

"Oh well you can have another go.  Is your cousin getting married now that she is moving to denmark"  My mothers reaction to our most recent BFN.  Yep, only if i have £4.500 lying around doing nothing and no i don't know if she's getting married or not and i really don't give a s**t.  My mum's reaction " you don't care if she gets married or not?" Erm, no that's what i just said.

Think the worst has got be a friend who has been texting asking about treatment - she is pregnant but didn't bother to tell me and i found out on ******** from her comments everyday about ms.


Ok, one more.  One of my good friends gets very upset when we have a bfn, she cries and keeps saying "what are you going to do next".  "What about a sperm donor or a surrogate?"  When I say we don't need sperm donor and i want to have my dh baby she said "Oh well i guess you can't help who you fall in love with"!    

Ok, rant over - thank you!


Love Lou


----------



## joeyrella

guess you can't help who you fall in love with     i think you have the least tactful bunch of friends on here lou.


----------



## lou74

Hi

Just wanted to say maybe you ought to send the PP after me - my comment about donor sperm was insensitive and i apologise sincerely if i upset or offended anybody.  In context - i think my friend was offering her husband as a donor which 1 is not her place to offer and 2 if we need a donor we'd go thru a clinic to avoid any difficult situations!

Hope I am forgiven!

Joeyrella - was reading on some of older posts and saw the one about the make up brushes - i'm still giggling. 


Lou x


----------



## katie c

can i add one?

after our second negative my mum said her clairvoyant said i'd get pregnant with twins, there was 'nothing wrong with me' and mr c just needed accupunture

we were then told at the follow up that my eggs were old and knackered, and two weeks later i was diagnosed with over active thyroid

so yes, i'm a model of womanly fertility

i told my mother that clearly that woman is the worst clairvoyant in the world, but she won't have it as apparently the message came via my late grandmother. never knew she was a gynacologist either, but hey ho


----------



## aaa is a MUMMY

oh Katie   if only we could get help from beyond, sure we all wouldn't be on here if we could!


----------



## Showgirl

Hello all   

I am a newbie, just joined the site a few days ago and I absolutely love this thread!! A place to rant about all the stupid things people who don't have a clue say to you....heaven!! Just wanted to share a few things that have been said to me ....

From my Mum after our first ectopic ... " Why didn't they just take it out before it popped the tube and put it in your womb...?! " .. I wish! (Bless her lol it's a nice thought though eh!?)

From DH's Mum, STRAIGHT after DH told her of our second ecotpic, loss of last tube and natural fertility .. " Oh guess what your Cousin is pregnant - they weren't even trying, it's such a shock, she doesn't know if she wants to keep it!!! " **** off!!!!!!!

From just about everyone we know ... "Oh don't worry you are still young, you've got all the time in the world...it will happen..." Erm yeah I know I am still young - but that doesn't help me feel any better, and how the hell do you know it will happen!?

From my Auntie, after 3rd IVF failure .. " You should get a surrogate - you obviously can't get pregnant yourself, so stop wasting time..." I don't think I need to add anything here, sure all your jaws will be hitting the floor as it is!

From the same Auntie, after our first ectopic and just after first early miscarriage, " Well, atleast it's not a real baby at that stage, you can just go on like nothing's happend really and get your period on time next month..." WTF!? 

From one of DH's male friends to DH ... "God after all you have been through, (started out nice enough!) I am surprised you are still together, I wouldn't put up with all that if there was nowt wrong with me and I could have a kid no problem, if she ain't up to it you should leave her mate..." Needless to say, I don't need him telling my Hubby that when it's actually my biggest fear and the source of all my guilt! He doesn't speak to him anymore oh and the friend decided not to press charges after DH smacked him one...



God I could actually go on and on ..... 

Thanks for letting me rant 
xxxx


----------



## Fraggles

Hi Showgirl

Welcome, sorry to read the insensitive remarks. GRRR. Maybe DH will become the first male member of the peestick possee - girls is that allowed - sounds like he is very handy and very pleased he smacked said friend in the face.

Hi to everyone else.

F x


----------



## poodlelover

Showgirl
Am stunned . Glad your DH gave him . He can deffo be the founder member of the male PP. Get him to think of a uniform/suitable punishments etc. The more the merrier!!

PL x


----------



## kitten77

well done Mr Showgirl! there are times when that is needed! 

and showgirl, i have the 'you are still young' comment....but then again i have been having that comment since 27 and im now 30....doctors will be telling me soon im so old!!!!


----------



## Mousky

A bloke with PP  

Showgirl -   Also had the too young   here at FF  

 everyone!


----------



## coweyes

Yer i get the "o your only young" comment all the time to. Or the "relax and it will happen" one  .  I normally look the other way and say no more that normally lets people know that they have been thoughtless!! The thing i hate the most is that infertility is belittled it is a huge deal and a huge issue for people, up there with death, and devorce.  But people think that it will just happen one day as long as your relax!!!! omg shut the fxxk up. xxx


----------



## Lemonie

Showgirl - I love your DH, good for him doing what we've all wanted to do at some point.

I was in Birmingham one day and got a taxi to the train station.  The taxi driver was making chitchat (as they do) and he asked if I had children.  Usually I put on the 'No!' with the 'what do I want them for' attitude but this time I just said no I don't.  He said if it was something that I wanted and I thought well at some point I'm going to have to come clean to the nearest and dearest how better to test the water that to test it on a stranger I'm never going to meet again.  I said absolutely but it's not happening.  He then says I hope you don't mind me prying but are you having IVF because I've gone down that road.  I thought that was really brave of a guy to admit this so I said yes, I've had once cycle and have another lined up.  He said well I'm sure you'll do it as you're only young.  I said I may look it but the ovaries aren't.  He then said pointing to a picture of some cute children, see that they're my kids, 3 boys - I got a new wife and had no trouble getting pregnant.

So there you go girls, how to solve infertility you just need to get a new f*****g wife


----------



## aaa is a MUMMY

omg   hope you didn't give him a tip.

Think my worse time was when I went for my smear test, went in the nurses room and she was reading my notes I could quite clearly see that it said we were having fertility treatment, she must have asked me at least half a dozen times if I had children   so just to turn the table back on her afterwards I asked if she knew if any decisions had been made about the number of funded attempts the NHS would give to couples in the East of England as we were waiting for our 2nd go at the time, she coloured up a bit but didn't ask me again if I had children, surely she was able to read as well as I could  

Another time was just before Christmas I was trying to find something to wear for Christmas meal and wasn't having a lot of luck I have one of those bellies where I look pregnant at times sure its just someones way of teasing me anyway lovely lady at work who I could quite happily scream at most of the time suggested I buy a maternity dress and be done with it what a cow


----------



## joeyrella

always an auntie i'm sure we have the same nurse.  i went to the doctor with an eye infection and got to see the nurse.  she asked me whether my children also had the infection? i said i didn't have any children, she said 'really?' i said no.  she said 'oh its rare to see these infections in adults, they are nearly always caught from children.'  then asked if i lived with any children? no.  'oh.........well do you work with children then?' NO!  open on the screen in front of her the details of my last appointment previous to this.....the one where i went because i couldn't conceive!


----------



## coweyes

Stupid stupid people!


I went for my initial blood tests for fertility testing, all the nurses (at my drs, so know me) know they were taking blood for fertility reasons.  I fainted and they asked me if i had any dependents at home as they were concerned about me looking after them as i was still feeling really rough.  OMG!!!!


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

I have just been on a cruise and went to get some travel vaccines. The nurse said to me, knowing that we just had IVF and a miscarriage at 17 weeks and hence the cruise, that 'you never know, you might come back pregnant and not need IVF'
I had the same comment from several people I work with ' you will be relaxed on holiday and get pregnant naturally' - I just smiled and said 'you never know' but deep down I wanted to scream -
OK - I'll just nip down to the doctor's office on the ship, have laparoscopic laser treatment to unblock my tubes, then nip into another blokes cabin (one who does not have azoospermia) for a bit of nookie, and Bob's your uncle - pregnant!

Last time I had my smear, the nurse was teaching a student and she was explaining in great detail how my cervix was obviously a nulliparous woman, knowing that I was having fertility treatment.

I have been told by a close friend that you can want a baby too much and that stops you from getting pregnant.

I was asked by the junior doctor, who incidentally looked about 16 and 3/4, when I had found out half an hour before that my baby was dead, 'was this a planned pregnancy?' and 'a miscarriage does not mean that you will have fertility problems in the future, and you will be able to get pregnant again'

If I had fertility problems in the past, surely I will still have them - does she mean a miscarriage cures blocked tubes and azoospermia? Novel idea!!! It needs publishing. I am going to hold her to the BFP promise.

Then to top it all the consultant made a booboo. I was in the holding bay waiting for my ERPC and he comes over with my notes and says with great surprise - 'you are 17 weeks pregnant!!!'
My jaw dropped - I muttered 'yes and no', thinking surely you know that, as you are about to remove my dead baby?
He had got me muddled up with an ovarian cyst patient. I think he was embarrassed.


----------



## Mousky

coweyes said:


> The thing i hate the most is that infertility is belittled it is a huge deal and a huge issue for people, up there with death, and devorce. But people think that it will just happen one day as long as your relax!!!! omg shut the fxxk up. xxx


And if it doesn't happen you can do the easiest thing in the whole world: adopt! I get a feeling people think you just go into a place and choose a cute abandoned child and take home with you  They have no idea how long it takes, the difficulties and the tension but as they say after you adopt, you'll conceive  

Hopeful Hazel - Oh Lord!   

 to all.


----------



## aaa is a MUMMY

omg its not just me that hears those stupid comments almost every day. good job we are all strong people lets hope today isn't a day of stupid comments just one whole day with out any pearls of wisdom from those that think they know best aaaarrrgghh


----------



## Bellini

Mousky said:


> coweyes said:
> 
> 
> 
> The thing i hate the most is that infertility is belittled it is a huge deal and a huge issue for people, up there with death, and devorce. But people think that it will just happen one day as long as your relax!!!! omg shut the fxxk up. xxx
> 
> 
> 
> *And if it doesn't happen you can do the easiest thing in the whole world: adopt! I get a feeling people think you just go into a place and choose a cute abandoned child and take home with you  They have no idea how long it takes, the difficulties and the tension but as they say after you adopt, you'll conceive  *
> 
> Hopeful Hazel - Oh Lord!
> 
> to all.
Click to expand...

OMG this is my total bugbear!

I think it's all those celebrities that "seem" to walk into an orphanage and go "hmmm I'll have 'that' one"  that give people the impression that it's so easy.

My other gripe is from my brother (gawd I am moany today!)... I happened to mention to him that my really good friend is adopting and that MrB and I had kinda half talked about the issue if things don't work out with our own bodies and he goes "oh, well why would you want to bring up someone elses child, it's not really like you'd be a REAL mum would you".

Errrr.... this is a guy with 2 children and 1 on the way.... if it's a choice between adoption and no children at all then it's something we'll definately consider if it's for us or not... How DARE he say that I wouldn't be a "real" mum? Grrrrr  If you clean up a baby's dirty nappies, spend night after night up with them when they're teething and feed and clothe them then OF COURSE YOU'RE THEIR MUM!!!!!!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


----------



## wishy-washy

Hazel , sounds like you have had your fair share.  But at least you got your holiday vaccinations. When we booked a last minute trip to Egypt 2+months after my miscarriage my nurse wouldn’t give me the injections as she was convinced I was pregnant as it said so on the computer. They had the letter from the hospital saying I had miscarried and I had seen the doctor the week before related to the fact that I wasn’t pregnant, plus my midwife had rung them after I missed my appointment because they never cancelled it which I was told they would. I have now finally got them to update my notes and did get to go on holiday. 

Lemonie – I can’t believe that taxi driver. Did you take his registration? We could cause all sorts of trouble for him.


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## coweyes

There are some really stupid people about!

I am not sure if anyone remembers me saying but my dh work colleagues found out we were having trouble trying to conseave they know we were having ivf.  Not only were there the normal stupid comments like "send your wife my way" one bloke said they would buy my dh jaffa cakes for his xmas Santa cos he was a jaffa! omg, that comment still really hurts me now.  He went to his xmas meal but refused to be involved in the secret Santa and i am sure he was sat on tender hooks when they gave out the secret Santa.  I hate this man for saying this i think its beyond stupidity i think that was just cruel and nasty.


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## Mousky

At least he didn't get anything nasty for secret santa. Some people think it's so funny you can't get babies the "normal way". DH also had the I could give your wife a go   but my DH is too polite so only answered you're too ugly for her


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

I wonder how many of these guys who think it is funny are actually going to be laughing on the other side of their face when they find out in the future they have a sperm problem.

You could also tell them to tie a knot in 'it' - although I like the comment in Nottinghill when Julia Roberts tells them that she is sure they have dicks the size of peanuts or to that effect - brilliant.

My other bug bear, apart from 'have you considered adoption', is the people on forums and in newspaper letters who say that fertility treatment is wrong and if you can't have a baby naturally then there is a good reason. And how the world is over populated and there are hundreds of existing children who need homes. Then the others who say that fertility treatment is a luxury optional extra and not one the NHS or the famous tax payer should provide. Since I have been stuck full time at work for 10 years longer than I intended, I think I have paid enough tax! Plus how dare people who do not know me or how I would bring up children make a judgement about whether my child should exist or not, or whether I have a valid medical condition and significant devastation to my life psychologically that I cannot fulfil my natural instinct to be pregnant and be a mother.


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## nbr1968

Here here Hopeful Hazel! well said - adoption is an option for some but not all and I read a blog recently where a lady very eloquently said that "adoption was not a cure for Infertility" - so right!

When people say to me "have you considered adoption" I am now considering saying "No, have you?". Then they will probably say, 
"Well I already have children, but you would make a great parent to a child whon needs a good home!",
so I would say, "Well, true, but just a thought - when you were deciding to further populate the earth, why didn't you "just adopt" as you are telling me to do, if it is that easy and the "right" thing to do?".

Another FF (I forgot her name! sorry!) once posted about "McDrive thru adoption" and I thought it was so apt. She said "There is this assumption in the general public that adoption is "easy-peasy and there's loads of babies out there just waiting for us selfish, thoughtless IVF attempters to come and pick them up like Big Macs at the McDonalds drive-thru", I can see it now:

"Mcdonalds baby drive thru, how can I help you?"
"Ooh, I think I'll have a 6 month-old please!", 
"You want a sibling with that?"

I am also sick of people telling me that "their friend's-mother's-aunty's-cousin's-sister" got pg at 40+++++ SO WHAT I feel like saying - I would have had atleast 4 children now if IF hadn't reared its ugly head. But I do not, and what's the point in comparing me (apples) to her (oranges) 

Grrrrrrrrr


----------



## M2M

I absolutely cannot STAND the "Why don't you just adopt?" suggestion. I've never had it personally, as adoption was actually our first choice, and we were in the process for over two years. So luckily for us, if someone does say that to us, we have a comeback of "Well, we tried that." 

However, having been very much involved with the wonderful world of adoption and social services for so long, I feel absolutely furious whenever I read the comments on these newspaper websites. If adoption were so easy, we would probably be parents now and wouldn't have been through the absolute heartache of being told we're not good enough!

We jumped through hoop after hoop after hoop, read every book, did our homework on time every week, used up all of our annual leave on adoption-related stuff, went to all the training and meetings and seminars, and have no obvious problems, but we were still considered "not good enough" after two years because my partner "wasn't angry enough" about her mother's homophobia and I had depression in my teens.  Never mind that we're happy, healthy, have stable jobs, own our own home, have two spare bedrooms and loads of love and time to give. Not to mention we were well versed in the very complicated lives of children in care and had sought out relevant experience with children who were fostered/adopted... nope we just weren't what they were looking for and it took them two years to figure that out!

Never believe the myths about adoption... it is insanely hard to pass their screening. We were told less than 1% of people who enquire about adoption actually go on to adopt a child.


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## Cazne

nbr1986,

I an soooooooooooooo with you on adoption!  Am sick to my stomach of people saying 'have you considered adoption'.  And when I say say 'no, we don't wan to adopt', they look at me as if I don't deserve any children.  In facy, my sister actually said to me: 'well, adoption is for people who can't have kids'!!! 

Adoption isn't some kind of booby prize is it?  It is a great and beautiful thing that lovely people who are braver than me can choose to do to complete their families.  I am in total admiration of those who want to adopt, but I don't want to go down that road and does it make me ungrateful?  I think not.

Sigh!  xxx


----------



## nbr1968

Cazne, M2M - here here

M2M I think you and your DP are the "brave" ones that Cazne is talking about! 

What you say just reinforces what I thought about the adoption process. It is HARD and can be heartbreaking. I don't need any more heartbreak!

Do you think that somewhere there is a thread on "fertile myrtle" website forum that starts "stupid things that infertile people say?". 

Oh, another FF friend said her mother said she was "so fertile she got pregnant sitting in her father's bath water" - beyond stupid!  Cruel


----------



## Mousky

Hopeful Hazel said:


> My other bug bear, apart from 'have you considered adoption', is the people on forums and in newspaper letters who say that fertility treatment is wrong and if you can't have a baby naturally then there is a good reason.


Loads of that! But when this people get sick they have no problem getting medical (often expensive) treatment. Why not just let nature take its course and die



nbr1968 said:


> Do you think that somewhere there is a thread on "fertile myrtle" website forum that starts "stupid things that infertile people say?".


Make no mistake! Infertile people say a bunch of stupid/cruel things as well. Specially after they get their babies, they sort of forget how it is... For the record, I feel super shy to say this coz I know people mean well but I HATE when I'm feeling negative and afraid and people here try to cheer me up with the "stay positive, it will happen" lines. Sometimes I just need my moan and to feel sorry for myself. It usually doesn't last long 

DH and I consider adoption regardless of out tx outcome but we know that right now we don't qualify as we move around a lot. But what do they know? 

Lots of


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## kitten77

M2M -   - your story is heartbreaking, i never knew it was like that, adoption is such a hard process. 

and yes, we have the adoption as a booby prize comment, well if you cant have kids then adopt, not the same but oh well.!!!  WTF!

as for infertile people and IF is a luxury!!!! Holidays are a luxury, nice cars are a luxury, having a baby when you want to is a luxury.....i wouldnt call saving so much you live off beans as you have no money left, stabbing yourself with needles and pumping your body full of drugs, having your eggs taken out of you and put back...only on a small % that it MIGHT work. - LUXURY! F*CK OFF!  what about these people who are to fat cuz all they do is eat and no fitness and moan as they are depressed as they want a gastric band fitted and thats on the NHS!!!! arggh!!! (sorry thats a reall bug bear of mine!)


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## MissyMinx

Hi Ladies, 

Sorry I haven't posted on here in a while, but   to all.  I completely agree with the whole IVF is NOT a luxury treatment sentiment, besides which - we're funding most of our tx!  If someone who was overweight tried twice to diet with NHS support, if they continued to overeat and not exercise, would they simply be cast aside with the whole 'well, you've had your chance - now we won't treat you for any obesity related illnesses' Of course they wouldn't!!!  

Sorry for ranting ladies, but I'm sitting here fuming after having to listen to some insensitive woman describe how it's no wonder her Aunt and Uncle aren't reliable or even nice people for that matter, seeing as they've never had children.  Apparently, if they'd only have had a baby or two, they would have a different approach to life.  How does she know they didn't try for years to have a child?!  And if they seem a bit down sometimes, maybe - just maybe, that's because they feel sad at the hand life dealt them, perhaps their lives didn't quite turn out how they wanted them to?!  It's far too easy just to write them off as mean and selfish people, simply because of their lack of a family.

I had a similar experience just last week when a friend's husband had an important tender to submit, and subsequently was unable to take time off work to take his son to a hospital appointment.  My friend was absolutely furious and said 'his boss has two children, so you'd think he'd understand....'  So, according to that statement then, the fact that I'm not a mother means that by definition, I'm totally unable to comprehend the need for a child to attend a medical appointment?

What is it that sometimes makes people who have children seem so totally smug?!!  Oh I'm fed up ladies!       I'd better keep it   before I depress myself even more.   

Love,

Em.x


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## coweyes

ha ha ha Kitten you made me laugh, but quite right. xx

Mousky I have def noticed that.  Someone i know got pg with icsi she was really understanding before hand and we tried to support each other.  Once she got pg she was as bad as everyone else.  Constantly posting on ******** things like "o what kind of buggy is best if your expecting twins" wtf.  I have promised myself that i will not bost about having children if i am lucky enough to have them, i dont need the world approval over pictures and little statements about what they have been up to.  My family and dh and i will be happy enough with out seeking anyone else s approval.

I have also noticed that people on ff make remarks about other people being young.  Comments like "i am sorry it did not work for you this time but you your only young so got plenty of time" Ok its a fact but dont say it cos it does not help!!!

I would really like to open a support group at my local gps to support others going through fertility tests and treatment, think this is something that i could only do when i have come to the end of the road with all the fertility treatment, eg either had a baby or adopted.  But would really like to show others there not allown and get people networking with others who are in the same situation.  I dont know about anyone else but i have found the process very lonely and misunderstood by just about everyone. xx


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## Tama

Ladies we all need a BIG   

The idiots seem to be back with a BANG   Were do people get this bu**sh*t from? 

I am 33 (34 in March) and I am always getting 'you're still young there is loads of time' I want to scream yes but I was 29 when this started and I was told it will happen, you're young that was 4 years ago  

A friend called me the other week asking about tx, even after I said please don't ask it upsets me. Anyway she kept on, when I finally told her she was like oh you have been through the mill. I sat there thinking finally you are getting it. Then she comes out with......don't worry I'm not planning on having anymore if that makes you feel better.............oh yes the fact that you got pg the first month of trying with twins and now 3 years on are telling me that you don't think you'll have more, yep that makes all my pain and heart ache go away. WTF  

Okay and the icing on the cake today.....I'm back after having two days off because my IVF failed.......half way through the day I get the comment 'oh you're back. You seem to have been off for ages. Is everything okay?' I said not really but I'd rather not talk about it to which I get 'oh did you have a m/c?'  WTF WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is a person I don't know and doesn't know I'm having tx, well guess they do (work in a small place) but OMFG do you say that to a person?


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## joeyrella

previously 'infertile' friends who go on to get pregnant are definitely the worst.  last time i saw a previously close friend (who had a previous ectopic and lost a tube, but eventually did conceive naturally) she began the conversation not with the usual hello, but 'do you want to hear a good news IVF story? friends of mine have just got pregnant!'.  i haven't faced her since she had the baby, can't stand the smug face!    
Tama your workmate sounds terrible, how rude.  if you had suffered a miscarriage would you want to discuss it as easily as if you were talking about having a tooth out or something.  so insensitive.  sometimes i wonder how far they would push it before realising they were trampling all over your feelings.


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## vickym1984

Just a   for you all

Luckily not had any stupid comments recently, sure that will change as tx starts....


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## GirlGamer

hi girls , im feeling really crap today   had an weekus horriblis wot with one tihng or another, sat here reading the last couple o pages catching up and cant believe it all again. i often had the why dont u adopt in the past and donor sperm comments. i used to tell them the truth and that was, that sperm donor wasnt for us or adoptiononly because my  partner found out that his parents had IF and when he was 18 was told his genetic father was a donor back in the 70's. so for that reason only i never felt it an option to us as we wanted our own biological children. it shut them up   just our own wishes at the time nothing against it for anyone else. and like someones said, adoptions not a booby prize, or "made for IF'ers". also some1 commented on a remark about every1 over 40 etc im sick of it too  
today tho i feel like i want to send the PP round here to my DP.   just to cut the story short (mentioned somewhere before) imet him before his DS was even concieved and his partner took it upon herself she wanted a baby and basically didnt tell him. w are now together , just been refered and DP is just about to do his SA so loads of feelings and emotion , hurt and guilt flying round at the mo understandably. im (sorta) happy that ive been refered at last instead of being in no mans land for months (again). just at the mere mention of all this and he has written all over his face, oh no shes on about it again, shes obbsessed, its all she thinks about. then in the next breath tells me all wot lovely wonderful DS age 1 did last week when he was there, how much like him he is, about Ds mother and well that sorta stuff,how just coz ex wife has finally decided to move on and sell the house and get on with her life, how hes(dp) makin his son homeless (we not involved in her decision to move btw) which i find really tough to stomach at the best of times, but just now its soo hard. cant talk to him coz of the mood hes in with it all. yet he just seems concerned with his living DS. its hard enuf isnt it getting all the stupid things form them outside, but just lately im getting it in my home too   ps im not allowed any where near his DS coz she doesnt want me to end of!
i understand the comments about IFers and forgetting. i  know i have my DD but have never ever taken that for granted or wud ever forget my IF troubles and certainly never rub it in. 
we do all need a hug!
GGxx

ps to nbr i have a client who even tho she knows about my troubles, nearly every week tells me how her hubby only had to throw his hat in the bedroom..


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## tinydancer811

I have a confession...

I get secret pleasure out of making annoying people feel uncomfortable in front of large groups of people.  When there's babytalk and some annoying person inevitably says to me "It'll be your turn next" in that high-pitched gooey voice, I tell them that my husband and I are both infertile and if they don't squirm enough I tell them more about our history until they begin apologising  

Then I finish by saying "At least 1 in 10 couples have fertility problems, so when you talk like that in a group of 10 people, chances are you're hitting a nerve with at least one of them".

Is that evil?


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## aaa is a MUMMY

expat, go that is wicked if it only makes a few people think before they open their mouths then those few people might spread it on to a few more. Go girl x


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## the_gruffalo

Hey expat, I like your style.

My friend was married for 10 years before she chose to start a family (and didn't have any problems when she did) but people were constantly asking her and all she would say was 'some people find it difficult to get pregnant'.  She was just making a general statement but it did shut people up  

A neighbour of my parents said to me 'you'll need to have another soon' when my DD was 18 months old and I'd just had an ectopic pregnancy.  I just looked a bit uncomfortable and said 'I'm not ready yet'.  However, recently he said 'have you still not had another one yet?'.  I replied 'no, but I have had an ectopic pregnancy, 2 chemical pregnancies, lots of investigations and 2 failed IVFs'.  I must say, watching him squirm was very satisfying!  

I did once mention the infertility and it did backfire a bit.  My sister had just had a baby and we were in the park in her tiny village and I was down-regging for my first treatment, was really bloated and was wearing a smock style top (so not really v flattering!).  A women my sister vaguely knew was in the park with her twins and got chatting and said to me 'it'll be you soon and looked at my stomach'.  I said 'I'm infertile, so I doubt it' and she burst into tears and told me the whole story of her infertility and how her twins were the result of her third attempt at IVF.  I don't think she'll make the same assumption ever again and still mentions it to my sister every time she sees her.

Gill xx


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

Well, I sat in the office yesterday with two late 20 early 30s peeps. They were discussing organising hen dos for their friends. Apparently both have had trouble with their groups because they have friends that are pregnant, want to be pregnant or intend to be pregnant by the time of the do, so the friends don't want to do active trips or go abroad, and it is so annoying to them.

I piped up, 'well if they are that lucky that they can decide that they will be pregnant on a certain date then good luck to them'. It was met with 'I was waiting for that comment'.
Knowing my history, why were they discussing it next to me then?

One of these particular people is planning to get pregnant when she is about 33/34 I think. She is in that blissful position at the moment that she does not know whether she can get pregnant or not, but is assuming it will happen instantly she stops the pill. She is with an older man that has a 16yo DS, and she assumes that is a guarantee of his fertility I think - despite knowing all about me and the fact that my DH has a DS and it means nothing.

I am getting all the time at work at the moment that 'you have lost weight' I tell them, I have gained weight on my cruise, but they still go on. So then I say 'I lost my baby, so my baby bump has gone' and then they squirm. I was bloated and my skirts did not fit when I was pregnant. Now despite gaining a bit of weight my skirts still fit, so my tummy must have been a bump before. Why can't people drop it?

I have people all the time now examining my tummy as I walk past. I think some people do not know I miscarried, even though everyone was meant to be told before I came back to work, and now they are wondering where my bump is and why I am not showing more.

GirlGamer I know exactly how you feel. I have had 11 years of DH and DS and ex partner issues to deal with, a lot of which has contributed to stopping me getting my baby. The unfairness of it all. She wants to sit at home not working getting loads of CSA money from us playing happy mummy, while I work my socks off, and all she does is add stress to my already stressful life by using the child as a weapon at every opportunity and making us miserable. My DH has loads of issues about doing it all again with the thoughts that I might leave and he will have the same situation all over again, but this time with a sperm donor child.

I need a hug too.


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## the_gruffalo

Hazel,


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## poodlelover

Hazel

  

Expat~ like your style! 

PL x


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## lou74

Hi,

Just wanted to send you all huge big  .


Went back to work this week after failed icsi.  One of my colleagues said "is it true your treatment didn't work", no i lied just to p**s you all off!  Why would i lie?  Why can't she have said Hi nice to see you back at work?  Also, my manager completely ignored me, didn't even say hello, prob cos we fell out cos she didn't want to give me time off for my ec    Btw I work on special care baby unit so going back to work very hard.

I know most people who say daft things are well meaning but all this treatment def gives you less patience for dafties.

Going back to the treatment is a luxury and shouldn't be on nhs - B****cks.  We don't stop people who aren't fit to look after children from having them cos its there human right to, well its our human right to have a baby.  We pay our taxes so we are entitled to treatment just as smokers are entitled to stop smoking support, drug addicts to detox, overweight people to free gym passes or gastric bands and our condition isn't self inflicted!  So there!


Love Lou


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

Yes I agree. I brought the subject up because it makes me wild. I have worked for the NHS for nearly 18 years and I work on a busy London intensive care unit.

Daily I have to treat drug addicts, people who have practically drunk themselves to death or who have had accidents or fights due to alcohol, people who have been abused or thrown out by their so called parents and they have tried to kill themselves or neglect long term illnesses like insulin controlled diabetes due to lack of parental support and end up in ICU, people with smoking related illness - I can accept the elderly who smoke who started when they did not know better - but youngsters with asthma who smoke, sometimes more than plain tabacco and come in time and again, people who have serious conditions and we provide all of the care they need free and they do not take it and end up back over and over. We also do the post op bariatric (gastric bypass and banding) surgery care - arraghhh.

A few weeks ago, just after I lost my baby, I had a lady in with swine flu. She was pregnant. We were all shocked by the severity of her illness. It was tragic - the baby was prematurely taken out and put on SCBU to save it, the mother was very ill. Later it emerged that this was her 8th or 9th baby, the others were in care or had child protection orders.

My DH and I have been excluded from NHS care because of my DH's DS. This child does not live with us.
The speech that was made by the secretary of state for health in response to the NICE guidelines on fertility actually said 'to give priority to those couples who do not have a child living with them'. The PCTs, in an attempt to save money, will tell you their policy is not 'no child living with them' but 'no living child' - which is completely different.

I am so angry - but I haven't got time to argue. Even if we did have NHS care after an appeal, they make you go miles and miles away for it. Not practical if you have a job in the opposite direction and need appointments 3 times a week.


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## tinydancer811

Hazel, there's some similarly frustrating political rubbish going on in Australia at the moment.  The government is talking about removing the subsidy that they give to couples going through IVF (around $2000 I think) because they believe that women who need it are women who have tried to 'have it all' and left it until the last minute after pursuing travel and career interests.  Meanwhile, if you're 16 years old, got drunk at a party, s%%%%%%d the nearest guy and whoopsydaisy, the government will give you a $5000 'baby bonus' to help support you.
Grrrrrrrrrr.......


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! They don't want you living off benefits, so you work hard and get a career. You also do something like me - become a pharmacist - so that you contribute to the health and well being of society.

You have a good job, a house and a secure income so that your children do not live off benefits.
I started trying for a baby when I was 29 - I am now 39. I expect people are saying this about me - I left it too late and now want IVF to bail me out. They don't know my history or how hard I have tried.

Not only that, I am paying large amounts of tax to support all of the teenage single parents as well as my husband's ex who 'accidentally got pregnant on the pill', while she claims benefits and does not work claiming that she has to be at home for the child (he is 14 and at school). She even gets legal aid when we have to take her to court to get access to the child, we get nothing.

I suppose if they can stop me having a baby and keep me in full time work until I am 70 then that is a lot of tax they stand to gain.

It seems to me that not only do 'people' say stupid things, so do governments - in fact it is the general attitude of society.

My friend and I were talking about this the other day - there is a very small window when it is acceptable to become a mother - somewhere between 29 and 33 - before or after and you are too young or too old. Bad luck if you do not have the right partner or it doesn't happen according to schedule.


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## daisy70

A woman at my last job, that I hardly even knew btw, asked me once if we were going to have children.  Instead of saying "mind your own business" I just made some vague "Oh I don't know" comment, because I didn't really want to talk about the fact that we had been trying for ages.  So then she spends the next ten minutes trying to convince me that we should have then  "honestly, take my word for it without children your life is only half full" etc etc.  Even when I said Oh I don't know you know because of my age we might not find it that easy she still did not get the hint and carried on and on.
I have heard similar comments from other people and I really am amazed - I mean who exactly do they think it would be appropriate to say all this cr*p to?  If I had chosen not to have children I would not want to listen to her prattling on about how my life is only half full.  I seriously think she thought that I was just undecided one way or the other and hadn't really thought about it.  Sheesh!  I don't think there are many women in their 40s who haven't got an opinion on whether they want children or not.

Fortunately I've left that job now as I thought a less stressful job might improve my chances of conceiving...

Also a guy we know says every time he sees us - "have you two not got any children yet?  You should you know they're amazing" or some such.  As if we hadn't thought of having children and just needed someone to suggest it to us.  Every time, I just change the subject and vow that the next time he says it I will just say "WHY DO YOU THINK THAT'S A POLITE THING TO SAY TO PEOPLE?"


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## espoir09

nbr1968 said:


> "Mcdonalds baby drive thru, how can I help you?"
> "Ooh, I think I'll have a 6 month-old please!",
> "You want a sibling with that?"


Oh my god, I'm laughing so hard I can't breathe! That's a classic. Gosh I really needed a good giggle.

I take a couple of weeks off and the PP is needed on overtime.

Sorry, can't remember who posted about the jaffa cakes but I didn't get it?

Still catching up with the rest of the posts


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## charlie_44

Hi All  

I haven't posted for a while but still read those stupid comments    

I haven't any more to add yet - bleeding nora the folks around me are being well behaved    Mind you I find I avoid the less tactful ones lately!

Daisy - I know what you mean, people wear you down asking when you're going to have children - i often think i should just say 'God no they're horrible' just to shut them up    I find i'm getting less tolerant of people's comments, why should I shut up just to save their feelings when they don't think of mine! 

Hi Hazel - I've seen you on a few threads, sorry to hear of the loss of your baby, you seem really strong  

And hi Lou, my matey!  Your boss is a   and your colleague an idiot - i loved your retort   even if you did say it in your head!

   to all.


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## espoir09

Hopeful Hazel said:


> One of these particular people is planning to get pregnant when she is about 33/34 I think. She is in that blissful position at the moment that she does not know whether she can get pregnant or not, but is assuming it will happen instantly she stops the pill.


That was one of my supposed best friends. She knew that we had been trying for over 2 years and had started the investigations when she got pregnant the month before they even started trying.

She was (and still is) horrid. She takes every opportunity to rub my face in it. She was the same when she got engaged before we did, but I thought that this time given the enormity of what we're going through that it would be different. How stupid can I get?!

I refuse to have anything to do with her now even though she's married to DH's best friend. Quite frankly my life is hard enough without people like that.


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## charlie_44

Some people are just horrible people


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

My hubby has had the Jaffa comment too. I have spent many evenings trying to convince him that he is still a worthy man and father when he has been crying about this name calling.

Another one is shooting blanks.

For those who do not understand it a Jaffa orange has no seeds - an azoospermic man has no sperm.

It is a very hurtful thing for people to say to a man


----------



## Mousky

un   believable


----------



## Mouette

Some of the things in this thread are just unbelievable.

I need a good rant myself. My best friend (well, that notion is now debatable) has a child and knows about my issues. She hasn't exactly been there for me, but everybody has their own life and their own problems to deal with, so I'm not mad at her for that.

The reason I'm mad at her is the fact that in her latest email she updates me with her career (in order to pursue it she lives in one country with her child while her husband lives in another... it's so comforting to see that she got her priorities right _//bitterness and sarcasm_), and after gloating about her new fantastic job she concludes with a "no, I'm *not just a mother*, hurray".

Now my situation has not blinded enough to think that once you have a baby you can't ask for a career too. But did she really think I was the best person to say that to Sorry my feminist sisters, but I'd LOVE to be "just a mother"!

She concludes with a condescendant "and I hope that you'll bring me good news regarding your situation. It must be soooo difficult". What's difficult hon is insensitive jerks rubbing it in like you do.

I'm choosing to ignore her. Some people are not worth opening up to.


----------



## M2M

Some people need a swift kick up the bum!  I didn't understand the "jaffa" thing before and felt a bit thick, so thanks for explaining that, Hazel... what a horrible thing to say. 

People at work have been driving me mad this week. They all knew we were going through the adoption process (after all that time off for meetings and training, it was hard to keep it quiet!) and we had the awkward job of telling them when it didn't work out for us. We've decided that the first they hear about our fertility treatment will be if and when I'm lucky enough to be at LEAST 12 weeks pregnant, and even then we might just tell our boss (DP and I work together) and ask him to keep it quiet for a while. I'm not looking forward to the comments about "frozen daddies" and "You should've asked - I would've offered to get you up the duff." 

Yesterday a bloke at work was hovering around talking about childbirth, particularly cervical dilation  and said to my DP, "At least you two will never have to go through that."   

Then there's a woman at work whose daughter is pregnant. She's not very happy about it but still insists on coming over to me and showing me all of her scan photos, telling me about their shopping trips for baby clothes, "Even though I don't think she should be having it because you're life's not your own when you have kids."

The same woman also frequently tells me "If I hadn't been able to have my son and my daughter, I would never have had fertility treatment. I don't understand why so many people put themselves through all of that. I never wanted kids that much." Well good for you... she's the same woman who, when we were going through the adoption process, said "I could never adopt because I don't think kids should grow up without their natural parents."

Oh and she's the same woman who said "I voted BNP because I want them to get rid of all the foreigners who are taking our jobs."

Needless to say I spend a lot of my working week rolling my eyes at this woman.


----------



## Panda

Hey All

Just thought I'd pop along and stick my two penny worth in...

We live in Abu Dhabi, UAE and have lived here for nearly 3 years.  The Arab culture is extremely geared towards children and most Arab families here have at least 3 children.  We reckon our neighbours have at least 10 but we've never seen them all together so can't confirm!

Anyway, one of the first things you are asked here when you meet local people is "Are you married".  After that comes "How many babies".  I started off by saying "No, not yet, Inshallah this year".  Then I'd get asked "How old are you?" "36" I'd reply.  Then I'd get the ramblings of "Oh you don't want to leave it too long, you should have at least 2 by now, Inshallah you will have some soon" blah blah blah blah blah.  To which I just want to say "Fcuk off, my babies are dead, you know nothing about me".  Now when we get to the "How many babies" question, I almost have sick pleasure in responding "Two, twins, but they're dead".  That usually shuts everyone up!

We have friends here - he is nearly 40 and she 33.  They were going to start trying for a baby this year when they had cleared their debts.  I asked her the other day of that was still the plan, her answer was no, we can't afford it.  My God - they are expats, living in the UAE, earning over 100k a year TAX free.  Now I understand that they have obligations back in the UK and a mortgage (house is tenanted) and debts from late Uni courses to clear but I know for a fact that my parents managed to buy a house and bring up two kids with only just my Dad working in the late 70s and early 80s and earning a couple of hundred quid a month - at a time when the mortgate rate was something ridiculously high like 18%.  We had hand me down clothes from my Mum's school mum's group of friends, second hand bicyles etc.  Never felt like I missed out.  

I told her that that was a crap excuse.  You cut your cloth accordingly, they shouldn't be wasting time.  He's 40 in April, never knowingly got a girl pregnant and she doesn't know if she has any issues (apart from being A+).  She's seen the heartache that we are going through so why put it off?  She couldn't answer me.  Her DH is adopted and his mother had years of heartache TTC but I think its him that is putting it off.  

M2M - rolling your eyes?  I am surprised you've not floored the woman


----------



## poodlelover

OMG ladies!! What is WRONG with people?? 

Quick get the PP on speed dial   

PL x


----------



## lou74

OMG i cannot believe there are so many stupid, ignorant people out there!  Mind you i shouldn't be since the government's attitude to fertility treatment is exactly that. 

Like Hazel i have worked for the nhs for a long time and can't believe that vast amounts of money are spent on people who don't want the the help that has been given to them, don't do anything to help themselves, have never worked or contributed any money to society yet people like us have to jump thru hoops to get any help.  I must admit that we have been very lucky with referrrals etc but our trust only gives you one free nhs treatment - personally i think everyone should get three.  

I didn't meet my dh until i was 28, we got married after three years tried to make sure we were in a good position financially and in our marriage before we had a baby.  Why should society punish us because of that?  Had i had a one night stand at 16, got pregnant i would have been given a house and god knows what else.  Some of our parents first question is "where do i get my £500 from", they think when their baby comes to special care we just hand over the cash!  

expat - i cannot believe what they are doing in australia - that is absolutely outrageous!   

One of the dad's at work asked me if i had any children, when i said no he asked me why and started saying you should do it blah blah blah.  What i really want to say is unfortunately not everyone is as super fertile as you and i can't have kids so stick that in your pipe and smoke it.  However, at least  i have a job and i am not spongeing from anyone else to support myself.

One last thing - can you send the PP after my sil?  When we told her about our issues she said, "i can't imagine what you must be going thru, i got pregnant straight from coming off the pill, i didn't even have a period you know!".  Well whoopy bloody doo for you, thanks for making us feel even more inferior and useless!

Charlie - hello there buddy 


Phew thanks for that rant


Love Lou


----------



## Mrs Rock

Hey ladies
Not been on this thread for quite a while but felt the need  to come back.  I want to say something controversial, I do not mean to offend anyone but really would like to know:- is it only me who finds it very hard on FF when pg people stay around on the clinic threads where the rest of us are discussing our failed tx and the challenges of waiting and waiting for the next tx, and then the next, and the next.....I so so wish they would just stay on the BFP/first scan/next season's birth threads etc etc, I mean there are enough of those threads surely?

I know some people find it inspiring to hear from people who've had successful tx at the same clinic, and it didn't bother me up to/during my first tx, but after 2 failed ones when I did everything right, hoped prayed rested ate brazil nuts drank water took supplements ate lots of protein went to work took leave from work listened to the CD, tried to take my mind off it YOU NAME IT, I have tried it, I don't need advice from someone who had 1 tx, which worked, and whose pg hormones (not that I'm not happy for them, I am) can't help but make them sound a little earth-mother smug.

Now am I just a bitter jealous old c?? or do I have a point?  I am prepared to be shot down in flames......


----------



## aaa is a MUMMY

Mrs Rock with you on that one, yeah it is lovely to hear from them and know all is going well but do struggle with some of the trackers and things some people use cuts a bit deep. (sorry if I have upset anyone). Guess it goes back to what we were saying on here earlier about people that have been through treatment all of a sudden forgetting the pain xx


----------



## Tama

Mrs Rock I'm with you hun   I find it hard too but how do you say that to someone? I think general threads are okay but treatment threads are different. Like you say when you have had a failed tx having someone going on about being pg is very hard. 

AAA I'm with you too on the tickers etc. I find it very hard, guess the pain of my failed IVF makes it even more painful.

x


----------



## Mrs Rock

Always an auntie am liking your tickers x


----------



## Mrs Rock

And my god I am glad I am not alone


----------



## aaa is a MUMMY

thanks no babies bottles on mine and promise everyone if we are ever lucky enough to get a BFP I won't be having anything like those horrid ones on my post promise ladies and if i do just shout at me lol xx  Mine are all important things to us as a couple, especially the holiday one, we haven't had a real holiday since our honeymoon in 2006 yeah we have been away but it has all been around treatment wks away to escape Christmas and Birthdays September if for us having a lovely week in Cornwall DH has never been before and its a break we really need xx


----------



## Tama

I have a funny one about my mum....love her but sometimes   She called to tell me the dates that she'll be coming over to see us. She then asked about my tx and when we had a follow up appointment. All good so far. The out of the blue she tells me that a friend of the family had her baby but there was a problem but all was okay. This was mid way through me telling her about our appointment. Then she starts telling me about my cousin, who already has a little boy, and how hard it is for her coz she has been trying for another baby but it hasn't happend and she is very upset....WTF what about me with no children? The she said oh by the way if you need to talk ******* said you could talk to her!? Like her problems are the same as mine? I have no baby and have no idea if I will ever have a baby. She has a child be blo*dy grateful   I know it must be hard to want another baby but after all you have been bless with one I DON'T even have that!   Phew that's better


----------



## aaa is a MUMMY

Tama hun sure she was just trying to make you feel like your not the only one but   I had that with my sil she took a whole 3 months to fall pregnant after they started trying for their 2nd god did she go on "oh its never gonna happen" blah blah blah blah omg then when she found out it was twin boys her whole world fell apart DH just tells her she should have kept her legs shut if she couldn't cope with been a mum again lol bless him he has a cracking way with words lol


----------



## bankie

Mrs Rock, Tama, AAA - I'm with you too!  After 5 failed IVFs I do find the advice of those who got lucky first or second time a bit grating at times.  I also don't want be told after each BFN, 'don't worry I KNOW it will be your turn soon' because quite frankly nobody knows if it ever will be my turn and although these cheering words used to help me I'm afraid they just don't cut it anymore.

Sorry to be such a miserable moo, but that's just how I feel and it's refreshing to find that I'm not the only one!!

 bankie


----------



## Mousky

Ladies,

I think you've made a good point about some FF who already have their   In general, I have no issues with it, specially when I "know" the ladies and their struggle with getting their BFP. I'm actually happy to hear about their news   However, I can imagine the tickers, pictures and some remarks might be a tad insensitive on the treatment boards. (all) That said I'm embarrassed to admit I have abandoned some tx boards after they became all about the ladies who got pg    

Not sure there's anything anyone can do about it?  

Btw, when/if this ever works for me, I promise no tickers, scans and pics  

Loads of    

Mousky xx


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Mrs Rock - all I can say is that I was so amazed to get pregnant finally after 10 years of misery, that I wanted so much to enjoy it while it lasted. I felt at last that I had got inside the club I so wanted to join - but I got thrown out again. I hope my existing ticker doesn't upset anyone - the original version, which would have been saying 30 weeks, was deleted to be replaced by the one now, and it is my memorial for the time being. Perhaps I will change it again when I start treatment again. I hope it is not bothering anyone else. If it is I will delete it. 

I stayed around on our thread last summer after my BFP, right to the end. Poor MaryDoll would have been talking to herself if I had not stuck around to listen to her amazing BFP twins news.
I hope I did not upset anyone that was a BFN.

What I am finding now is that I cannot help but put myself through the wringer and take a peek at the July/August BFP thread to see what is happening. When I first lost my baby I kept seeing the new replies to your posts, and it was very difficult as they were all having good scans and feeling kicking and planning the nursery, and all I had was a dead baby and breasts full of milk with nothing to feed.

Now I just have a quick look as they are all starting to reach due dates. People like EvenMyToes, who are pregnant with triplets, are in my thoughts because they have had threatened prem delivery and I think of them as they cycled with us.

They are all complaining about the aches and pains of late pregnancy and I want to tell them to ''stop it be in my shoes!'' - but I guess you feel what you do at the time and I expect that however hard we might try, I bet we would all have a little moan. I promised I would not complain about nausea if I ever got pregnant - in reality it is a bit wearing after a while. I did try not to moan, I swear!

What hurts more than anything is the bit at the start of the thread that has my name and next to it   

Why, oh why do I even look?


----------



## beachgirl

Just a quick hello from me as off to get ready for work but didn't want not to post a quick message...

It's lovely to see everyone supporting each other on here as it's so hard getting through the bad times when we have negative cycles or lose our much wanted pregnancy...it feels like no one has ever gone through the pain and sadness that we have and it's hard to try and be positive about the future especially when for some of us we don't know what that will bring..

It's difficult trying to find a balance isn't it, sometimes it's nice to know that others have success but at times it does hurt so much..


----------



## Mrs Rock

Hazel, no one could ever be offended by your ticker, you've had a heartbreaking experience, I hope you saw my post to you on our new cycle buddies thread, you've been in my thoughts.  Going to pm you now x


----------



## aaa is a MUMMY

Hazel no way hun your's is beautiful ticker hun and thats what this site is all about. Don't even mind those that say how far gone people are cause yeah it does give a bit of hope, the ones I find really hard are those with baby bottles, nappy pins on them that sort of thing.

Think to be truthfully honest with you we are all only human and the moans and groans of everyday life are normal. I feel mean sometimes moaning about how I feel when I know there are people on here you are in a much worse state than me and have had a lot more to deal with than we have but at the end of the day we are all individuals and our worries problems and concerns are all personal to us at the time but  I just wish those people that are lucky to get that BFP just remember there are loads of us that have never ever seen those beautiful 2 lines


----------



## Mrs Rock

I know what you mean about the 2 lines AAA, I sometimes actually fantasise about seeing them. I hope it happens for us both, what a magic feeling I imagine that will be


----------



## aaa is a MUMMY

It would be truely amazing not sure how I would cope with the shock to be honest fingers crossed and   that it all comes good soon, right back to cleaning I go want flat to look lovely when hubby comes home from work x


----------



## M2M

I just want to give all of you a massive hug today!


----------



## Mrs Rock

M2M back atcha!


----------



## coweyes

Its such a tough one isn't it? I got pg, in my first icsi cycle but lost it very soon after.  But i dont think i would have joined any other pg group as i was just so afraid that i would loose it which obviously happened.  Can not remember who said it but i also hated the   .  Cos (this is only how i feel) i did not loose a baby that's not how i personally see in.  But i understand its difficult for people to always get it right esp when we all have different views on it. xx

I often dont feel on the same wave length as others on ff which can leave me feeling a little more lonely, but over all the help and support i get from this website is amazing.  Think we all need to have a little patience for each other we have a hard enough battle on our hands with out adding to it. xx


----------



## Mrs Rock

Coweyes sorry to hear of your miscarriage.  You are right babe and I am not a patient person.  It helped me a lot to read these replies from people who have the same feelings as I do.  But I know the way I see things is not the only way to see things!  I do know what you mean about sometimes not feeling on the same wavelength.  I am all for keeping positive during tx but I am left a bit nonplussed by all the posts saying being positive and keeping believing will actually help you get pregnant.  I fsometimes feel a bit like I am watching the power of positive thinking brigade from the sidelines.  I actually asked my clinic about this after first cycle failed.  They said they think it makes no difference at all and could show me studies to prove it.  I never asked to read the studies I just took them at thieir word and now I don't beat myself up for not believing positive thinking can help my embies to implant.  I'm glad I asked the clinic though as it was a big thing on here and I was really worried my lack of faith was causing my tx to fail.  Though saying that of course the more cheerful and hopeful we can keep, the better for everyone, and I mostly succeed I think.  Am rjust really grateful for this thread to let off steam!


----------



## coweyes

Mrs Rock

I am more of a realist and even though i know our chances are good (thats what consultant says) i would rather just plod along.  I see ivf as a process and hopefully just hopefully i may become pg.  I hate it when people go on about when you get your bpf, cos whos to say i will??  I would rather just go through the motions and hope, cos hope is all we have.

The other day on ff i was saying that i hope that i could except having just one child if i was lucky enough to even get that.  Someone replied and said unfortunately its not that easy and once you have had one child the longing for another is even stronger!!!!  I felt quite upset about it as whats the point, whats the point of pushing yourself for one if your not even going to be happy with that.  I felt and do feel really confused by it all.  i hope beyond all hope that i could find true peace with just one child as that would still be fantastic.  xxx


----------



## Mrs Rock

Coweyes I like your 'hopeful realist' approach, I too like to think I could content myself with 'just' 1 child if I were ever lucky enough to get that but who knows?  I suppose I can'tpossibly know how it feels to have one and yet long for more.  There are plenty of people who never want a second though - my sister is one and she got pg by accident, has a much loved and cherished 5 year old and doesn't want any more, thank you very much!

I know people are trying to comfort me when they say "I know it'll happen for you" but tbh I just close my ears to it now, have heard it so many times and it is pretty meaningless.  When we had just started trying, I am from a very fertile family (dad one of 11 and i have 26 cousins....and counting) and friends said oh it will happen for you as soon as you start trying, well 2 years and 2 ivfs later here we still are.  My sister during my first tx, on her 3rd glass of wine one night "Oh it's going to work for you, I just can feel that it is"  well oopsie she must've got her feelings mixed up, not to worry eh?  They are really trying to help but I admit that maybe it's impossible to say the right thing to someone on such a raw subject as IF.  In the end you've just got to keep your own headspace clear, I think.


----------



## Tama

Hopeful Hazel my heart goes out to you   I can't even begin to imagine your pain. I can see why you'd want to stay on a thread with people you know and have shared a journey with. I can also see why you still feel the need to pop back and see how everyone is getting on even though it is very painful to hear their stories. I think we all do it. It's human to want to know but at the same time not want to know. 

I hate the idea that I upset people by saying how I feel. I guess it boils down to each individual person. When I read that someone I know (you know I know them only in an online way but you feel you know them) has finally gotten their bfp I am happy for them, it does give you hope but also it can make you feel sad because you sit there thinking will that ever be me? Will I ever get to write that I got two lines? Maybe that is selfish but it is how I feel. I think when you finally get a bfp after years of ttc you must just be so totally happy (and I'm sure scared) that you want to shout it from the roof tops, however, I also think there are two ways to do this. Some people do it with tacked and care for others that have just found out that yet another tx has failed but I have come across a few (and I mean a few) that just seem to forget the pain, the heartache and stumble on and on about it this is when I find I have to take a step back from a thread because after all this is only how I feel and others on the thread may not feel this way. 

Re the issue about once you have a baby the feeling for another is stronger. Yes, maybe it is but to never have a baby not one in my book trumps the pain of having one but wanting another. Sorry if this upsets anyone with children but it is how I feel. I guess the nice thing about this thread is you feel safe in saying things that you maybe can not say on a tx thread. 

Everyone is different and I know that but at the end of the day how you feel is important. For the last 4 years I've made excuses for people and their silly comments. I find myself starting a conversation with 'if you don't mind' or 'sorry could we talk about something else'. I've decided that I come first, not when I'm in a room with people that have experience IF or are currently experiencing it but with Mr and Mrs Average that fall pregnant and then tell you that you are too uptight and you need to relax. 'Try hitting the bedroom after a nice bottle of wine, it worked for us!'. I think if you have never experience IF and having children just happened for you it must be very hard to understand how I/we feel and it must be hard to know what to say. However this does not give people the right to just over rule how you feel with a 'it will happen' or 'don't get stressed that will not help' or 'be positive it worked for me'. No one knows if it will work - they are not God! Why can't people just listen and offer comfort with a hug or the offer of a kind word 'I'm here for you if you ever want to chat' or 'I can't begin to imagine what you are going through if you need anything please let me know'.

Sorry this seems to have just poured out of me. Guess the 'silly' comments have been hitting me a little harder than normal after my IVF.

Please don't take any of this the wrong way. This is just how I feel. I'm grateful for all the support I have found of FF and I have made some life long friends.


----------



## Showgirl

Hello ladies  

Sorry I haven't been back on for a while - I posted for the first time here a while back and I am just catching up. This is a really busy thread! I have been reading with interest the last few pages and I can identify with everyone's feelings and tbh I am really comforted to know that so many people feel the same as me. I often feel very guilty about all my negative feelings but it does help me cope with them - to know that I am not alone   I find the discussions about the positive attitude thing helping you be successful, very interesting - although I do try to stay in a "kind of positive" frame of mind in day to day things - in the respect that I just try to get from day to day without losing my mind!!! I have to admit, I am not by nature, a positive person - you just have to look at my history to see why! With regards to Fertility Treatment I have to say that all the people who say "Be positive, believe it's going to happen, see it happening...and it will" I think are just trying to help & don't mean anyharm obviously, but I have to say from experience it doesn't work and a lot of times doesn't help you (certainly doesn't help me!) I have had 3 attempts at IVF and the first 2 times I was of my usual frame of mind - neutral and expecting the worst yet hoping for the best. Both times failed. The 3rd time I really got on board with the positivity thing, did my meditations and actually convinced myself that it would work, truly I did! I was happy, positive and I believed, I actually had a very good 2ww and felt great! Which yeah, was good BUT .... it was then BFN....I have to say I was 10 times more heartbroken and came crashing down with a much bigger bump the 3rd time - because I had been so positive and I had complete 100% belief that the test would be BFP. I was even more bitterly disappointed than the first two times and it hurt so much more because I was so much more angry at myself for being so positive and wasting all that energy if you like.  So now I am of the opinion that with Treatment, staying neutral is best - expect the worst but hope for the best outcome - because it hurts so so much more when you really are positive and believe it will work. So that is my plan for the next time (and probably last time as we have 4 remaining frosties left and all will be used next time to try and get at least one to blasto stage) we work up the courage to go again. I hope this makes sense and I don't sound like some heartless cow - I have just had so many disappointments now that I find it very hard to be positive. It's hard enough getting out of bed each day. But one thing I will always allow myself is HOPE - it's the only thing that keeps me going and keeps me stronger day after day, my HOPE that I will HOPEFULLY become a Mummy one day. 

Massive   to you all xxxxxxxx


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Well, my screen name is hopeful.

I approached my last cycle of IVF with quiet confidence, but with the deep down knowledge that anything can go wrong at any time. I tried to stay positive - but it was an up and down thing, one minute positive, next minute not. Rollercoaster!

And yes that positive pregnancy test was the happiest moment to date in my life. I cried my eyes out and told DH that I had waited my whole life for this moment. I hope me saying that is not going to upset anyone. I am glad and grateful and amazed that I could possibly be that lucky to have experienced pregnancy, even for a short time. It might be the only experience of it I get and I fully remember what the feeling inside was like before. It is a fantasy, out of reach, and hurts so bloody much.

People have even implied that because I always approached scans with the attitude 'will it still be alive?' that somehow I caused my baby to die. My baby was small for dates at 8 weeks and the doctor told me to be cautious - so I was. At the 9+5 scan I feared the worst, but hoped for the best. At my 13 week scan I feared the worst but hoped for the best. When I opened the Downs envelope I feared the worst but hoped for the best. The cruelist thing is, that the very moment I dropped my guard and finally started to relax, think about baby shops, read pregnancy mags and went to a midwife appointment on my own, because it was a routine check up, is when it happened. That was why it was a shock.

I have to go over to my Dad's now - CAN you BELIEVE this - the gas board has turned off my Dad's boiler as it was leaking and not safe and WALKED AWAY.   
It is winter and he is _80_ years old with lung disease. He has no heating and no hot water and is left to fend for himself and sort it out himself. He is 60 miles away - such a worry.

I am going to  down that blower to the gas board when I get there. How  dare they?


----------



## espoir09

Tama said:


> Why can't people just listen and offer comfort with a hug or the offer of a kind word 'I'm here for you if you ever want to chat' or 'I can't begin to imagine what you are going through if you need anything please let me know'.


i think that's all any of us really want. Its what my fantastic parents in law do, but unfortunately my own mother is not capable of this.

I just get unhelpful comments like "go and have a nervous breakdown then" or "well she's my sister in law she had a right to know about your infertility"

hence i haven't spoken to her in almost 6 months and i have to stay my life is a better place for it.

Maybe my non-existent children are better off without me too, i've always told myself i would be the best mum in the world, that's probably not true. I'd probably be a terrible mum and this is probably why i've never even managed to get to the stage where i need a hpk. They can't find any other reason why we can't get pg and that's probably it. I'd be such an awful mum no embie wants to implant.


----------



## Kitten 80

Hopeful   that is horrible so sorry for your lose  

Hi peeps been a while since I posted as no one has said anything stupid   as I don't talk about it anymore.

Hope everyone ok  

Tama   you no thats not true


----------



## coweyes

I think there is a big difference is staying positive and believing your going to get pg.  I am positive about icis about the drugs i have to take and about all the hospital appointments, i am sooo greatful when i am able to move on to the next stage.  Today i start strimming   and i feel positive about it.  But it does not mean that i feel positive about having a baby.  I kind of dont associate all this with having a baby, dont ask my why cos i dont know.  Maybe cos it feels such a far away dream but i am ok with this it has kept me sane when when life has hit rock bottom.


----------



## Mousky

Ladies,

It's comforting to hear some of the "real feelings" for a change  Obviously, I don't think people want to hurt others but it happens too often - even here as we can see - and I don't feel like there's a place we can discuss it without sounding crazy or actually being rude ourselves   

Hazel - I don't think people were upset with you or your tickers but I can imagine you were upset with the causing your loss with your negative thoughts   And I can imagine getting your BFP was the happiest day in your life   I surely hope you'll get there again   GL with your dad's gas thing  

Coweyes, Mrs Rock and Showgirl - with you on the positive thinking front   I think it's easier (at least, for me) when we're positive, we feel less afraid, it's less stressful but does it mean we're going to get pg? Or not if we're negative?   that! What about all this people who didn't want to get pg and still did And the other way around??    I try to remain positive for the future, for my tx but let's face it the numbers aren't exactly the ones I'd hope for and after a while of trying and getting a collection of BFNs, it gets a bit harder... I'm planned for FET somewhere next month and must honestly say I'm HOPEFUL but not super positive coz I'm afraid! Is that a crime? But most of the time I feel like I cannot say this here on FF without the "keep the pma" talk  
I know people are trying to help and I'm so glad I found this website but sometimes, just indulge me on my fears and negative feelings for a while   Is that too much to ask?  

Espoir - the only logic thing I can tell you is that I actually know some very bad mothers/fathers and they had no problems with falling pg   Must confess I've had thoughts like yours from time to time      

One last thing, I don't have ANY kids so I can't tell how one feels re wanting more babies etc. I'd love to have 2 or 3 kids but seriously the way this is going DH and I are going to be super happy with just one. Or maybe we won't. If we're not, I promise I'll try to keep my baby talks to myself (or the parents board). You can deffo send PP after me if I don't! Ladies, I'm considering leaving another tx board because I'm not being able to handle some of the you know   But, then again, obviously this is MY problem  

  

Mousky


----------



## Mrs Rock

Espoir chin up love, you know the embies can't choose it either happens  or it doesn't but more importantly if wanting a bubba so much that we go through all this can make you a good mum, then we will all be fabulous and that includes you of course babe  !

I tend to bleed early too and had a hysteroscopy just to check there was no potential cause of that to be seen in my womb - it was fine.  Maybe something to think about if your Dr hasn't mentioned it already?  On my first IVF I bled 6dpt5dt.  For my FET I used 3 progesterone pessaries a day instead of 2 and I got past OTD which at least was a step in the right direction for me.  HTH xx

Coweyes well done getting to stimming best of luck to you


----------



## Kitten 80

I think I am in for a bad AF this ismy first after icsi bfn I can feel her not comfy


----------



## Bellini

Hi girls

Did you know that you can turn off people's avatars, pictures and tickers?

I think the Mods can help you with that.

AFM, well, like kitten I have stopped talking about it to anyone in real life. It makes it easier really as I am sick of trying to explain myself.  I saw a close friend yesterday and lied and said we hadn't had our ICSI yet and that I was hanging it on until the summer.

I am not normally a "closed" person but I've learnt the hard way that being open about IF doesn't bring people closer to you - it drives them away.

Bellini xxx


----------



## Kitten 80

yep totally agree with you there people are afraid to say anything remotly in the direction of children my friend stayed away from me untill she was 12 weeks gone   but I was in a bad place then and I adore the little might which he is nearly 2yrs now love him apart from the biting


----------



## Tama

Mousky I think you're right. People want to help and make you feel better but sometimes you need to be able to say but what if it doesn't work? I think the trouble is there isn't a right answer for that either. I want to be able to say that but at the same time I'm not ready to really deal with the question or the answers. Hope you're okay and that stuff on the other threads isn't getting you down  

I know my poor dh says it will be okay. All the way through my IVF cycle he told me it would be okay - 12 days past ET I started to bleed. Bless him he is trying to make me feel better but sometimes there are no words to help, nothing helps.

In a nut shell most family and friends are 'F  ED' because there is no right answer and 9 times out of 10 what they say isn't helpful and upsets you. 

Espoir I've felt that maybe I've done something and am being punished but this is not the case. It is just unfair, cruel and painful. You *will not *  be a rubbish mum  I think after all the sh*t we have been through we will all be very good mummies, don't get me wrong I'm sure we will fumble about and not always get everything right but who does? You and the rest of us will be good mums 

Coweyes best of luck with stimming hun. Grow follies, grow


----------



## Mrs Rock

Mousky I dunno what's up on your other thread but can you come and join April/May with me and we can be the hopeful realists enclave.  To me that would be a good thread name but guess it doesn't have the requisite amount of super powered PMA about it   .  I am already on March/April but going to shift as don't think I'll be recovered enough yet from the surgery to start again next cycle BOO HISS.

Re turning off tickers, I think it also turns off people's signatures and I think it's helpful to know the history of people's tx whilst they are still trying so you now where they're coming from so that's why I've been grinning and bearing the rest of it.

Tama your DH sounds like a love, I think the men find it slightly easier to keep positive, proably to do with them not having their hormones messed around with I reckon....but hey listen another FFer's DH has a saying which has stuck with me: "Everything will be ok in the end.  If it's not ok it's not the end".


----------



## Tama

Mrs Rock like that saying.....just hope my dh isn't saying that to me as we sit in the nursing home   x


----------



## Mrs Rock

Tama sweetpea, if he's saying it as you sit beside each other in your rocking chairs then you can officially clock him with your walking stick


----------



## Tama

I'll remember that


----------



## Kitten 80

Think I need a may /June thread don't no how to find one


----------



## Tama

Kitten this is the only one I can see, think this is the link...

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=62.0

If not I found it in general support/cycle buddies


----------



## Kitten 80

Thanks Tama I will look


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## nbr1968

I have been reading this thread for a while and even posted a "stupid thing people say" bit. I am so glad that what I am feeling so many people seem to be feeling also. I have been lucky enough to see two lines - but that ended badly, and it did take me more than 10 years of TTC to get those two lines. (I don't count the second HPT because it was only bloods that told me I was pg).

I do find some tickers hard and I find reading just the headline of some posts hard - I find myself thinking, "if only I had that dilemma" - and I am ashamed to say that I get so envious of some posts - stupid me.

I joined FF in 2008 and so many of the names I see on the pg/tx or other posts are those who were in my position back then, but now are pg/have a baby and are even TTC #2! To say that I feel like an unwelcome guest at "the Club" is an understatement. I thought I had finally got there in March 2009, but did not post on the pg board or have a ticker because I did not want to "jinx" it. Now my PMA is totally gone. Like Showgirl, I tried PMA on my March cycle - and it worked - and I stupidly allowed myself to have hope and when i got to 12 weeks I thought "maybe we've done it" - but then just as i had allowed myself to hope, to dream, my world came crashing down. Now I will never allow myself to dream in that way again - the hurt was so much worse because I had allowed myself to believe that PMA can work.

I know I am spiralling downwards on a lonely path.

I wonder if I could pose you all a question to you relating to the things that people DON'T say? I don't want to hog this thread so I will post it here:- 
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=228309.new#new

please look and give me your opinions

Hopefulhazel - don't want to send you one of those platitudes but I am sending you hug (we have spoken before and seem to be (sadly) on the same wavelength - I was just the same at my scans )

Nbr68xx


----------



## Guest

Hello 

Hope you don't mind me gate-crashing? I came across this thread a few days ago and just wanted to say that you have all put into words exactly how I'm feeling at the moment. I was beginning to wonder if there was something really wrong with me that I am finding it so hard to see pg tickers, scan pics, baby pics, hear about pg symptoms etc etc at the moment and I thought that maybe I deserved everything I got for being such a b*tch. You have all made me realise that I'm completely normal to be feeling the way I am and I'm not a freak of nature which I was seriously beginning to think I was 

Thank you     

xxx


----------



## Kitten 80

Shemonkey I felt like that with pompeys BFP that stung thats why I didn't really post it hurt because I wish it was me saying I have a BFP  to but I new didn't I so   for you.


----------



## Tama

Shemonkey you are not alone hun, from reading on this thread and chatting to others I know that we all have the same feelings


----------



## aaa is a MUMMY

to you all x


----------



## Kitten 80

always an auntie you name hits the nail on the head I used to smile when my friends daughter called me auntie but then her new son came and she says go to auntie tracey then my other friend said it as well now I am not smiling althougt I love the little mites I would love to here go to mummy for a change, change the record  , but hey I am Kitten and I get back up and put a fake smile on my face so everyone thinks I am happy


----------



## aaa is a MUMMY

kitten thanks hun, we are all experts on the painted on smile xx


----------



## Kitten 80

everyone ok this morning weather is poo isn't it


----------



## Tama

Hiya Kitten. How's things? It's thick fog with us nightmare journey to work - people driving with no lights!!!!!!!!!  

Hope everyones okay xx


----------



## aaa is a MUMMY

Tama sorry hun have you just read what someone has said aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhhhh of all the stupid things wish my emotions were all over the place cause I was pregnant but they are not and what a stupid thing to say omg especially with what is going on with you and poor H at the moment. (Sorry everyone else reading this bit personal)


----------



## Tama

AAA just seen it


----------



## aaa is a MUMMY

so close to saying something really not having a good day and don't really  need to know she isn't either just hope she doesn't text me cause I  might not be so refrained


----------



## guider

just to cheer you all up
we have a new woman at work, been around a few weeks, but isn't used to working with such a small (probably strange) group of people
she had a miscarrage last year (due date would actually have been next week) but today at work there was her, my boss (male) 
me  - due september, someone due in May and someone due in March (think he needs more staff)

she's used to  not being allowed breaks due to her hours at her last job, but we are very relaxed, don't do good at actually getting breaks, but have regular drinks etc, when we get chance to grab them

she asked my boss if she would be able to eat an apple during the morning, or was it just the other woman that was eating at the time as she knew blood sugars etc could be a problem
everyone looked at her stupidly, 
so i thought i would help her out
hysterics started when i said she was asking if she had to be pregnant to eat midmorning


----------



## lornam41

Hi not been on here for a while but just thought I'd share one with you all.

On phone last night to DH's aunt, she was thanking us for her birthday present, her parting comment to me was
'hope to see you soon, maybe it'll be a christening'  
eh don't think so seeing as I can't even get pregnant doubt I'll ever get to the christening stage!!!
I was so stunned (as everyone knows thanks to gobby mil) I just put the phone down.


----------



## Kitten 80

She probably didn't mean it nasterly hon famileys don't no how to react and she was probably saying that in hope for you


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

If I am not mistaken, I think these people say these things when they are fishing for information - am I right or wrong?

Gossips! 

I am sure we have all done it to some extent - asked people who meet a guy if we should buy a new hat etc?


----------



## Kitten 80

That seems more like it I totally agree


----------



## Tama

I totally agree. The place I work is small and everytime I have an appointment or a day off everyone comes into my office and starts 'fishing'   Maybe next time I will get dh to take some pics of my EC (felt nasty so must look nasty) stick them in their face and scream 'happy now, you know as much as me!'


----------



## commutergirl

Hi ladies

(I see a few familiar names from the IUI thread - hi!).
I have read this thread and was shocked. How can people be so insensitive as to come out with jokes like the Jaffa one? that's not just awkwardness and lack of empathy, it is really nastiness. 
However, like pretty much everybody here I have had all sorts of inappropriate and insistent questions from people who have no right to consider themselves friends, and I'm pretty determined to start replying "no, we can't have kids, I was sterilised during my stay at a criminal asylum a few years back"  .

However, just to add to the pile of the clumsy sentences - at least not to that of the nasty ones. This came from a friend (one of those who are close enough to have a right to ask!), a few years ago.
She asked me if we had any baby-plans, and I told her that the plans were there, but as, back then, they had been unsuccessful for about 1 year and 1 half, we had started having some investigations. She looked genuinely sympathetic (and I'm sure she was) and then, just to cheer me up, said "oh, well, I am sure you'll succeed. Do you remember my friend Xyz? she had tried to get pregnant for 8 years; then she split up from her husband because he was cheating on her, and with her new partner she became pregnant immediately!!!". Thanks, but I'd rather stick to the current one...

As at the time I wasn't yet freaking out about not getting pg I didn't make much of it, and if I think back of it now I just smile (not least because it came from a good friend, not from the usual distant acquaintances who always want to give you unrequested advice) - but how clumsy was it

Commutergirl
xxx


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

I have been asked/told on several occasions in whispered hushed voices - 'can't you sort of nip out and have a 1 night stand or something?'

I reply something like 'I have blocked tubes, so that wouldn't work', but actually, who the hell do they think I am that I would just go and cheat on my husband/sleep around to get pregnant.

Do you think my hubby might notice if I were suddenly preggers after he has had two surgical biopsies, taking a total of 6 tissue samples and he has been told there is no hope? Might cause a few problems in my marriage, hey?

Do they think they are helping/funny when they say this sort of thing?
Might work on Eastenders, but not in my life.


----------



## charlie_44

At the start of this journey I was talking to a 'friend' and mentioned it was MF problems and she told me to be careful incase the doctor slipped one in whilst laughing her head off at her joke


----------



## winniemcgoo

Hi Ladies, I love this thread.. Heres my story..when I first started treatment I asked my boss for time off. She said No and went on to explain that anyone else trying for a baby doesnt get time off?? doh..could that be coz they are lucky enuf not to need IF treatment I wonder??..maybe I should invite my consultant to my workplace to do a Hycosy??.I was gobsmacked...I went to union who find the appropriate guidance which stated i could have time of for Fertility Treatment so its all good now.x


----------



## GirlGamer

my mum said the same thing to me when i was with exDP and had found out about his MF, cant u just go down town one nite with the girls, he'll never know........my mum still amazes me now with her silly comments.. oh and how when i got with current DP how it wud happen straight away and to forget the past.....even tho i didnt get caught, it cuts to think that even if i had i cud never forget and never will wot ive been thru or my lost embies..
GGxx


----------



## Sam76

I know it sounds a bit tame compared to some of the nasty things on here and I know that she only means well but when our tx is discussed my MIL keeps saying 'oh well, it'll all be worth it' and I can't help thinking, if only you could guarantee that we could just sit back and wait for it to happen safe in the knowledge that one day it will.... but the unbearable truth is that it might not all be worth it after all. We may go through this year after year and get nowhere.

 to all xx


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

That has got to be better than a MIL that tells you to ''accept your lot in life, the success rates are so poor it isn't worth trying'' (after 7 cycles of IVF with her other son) and that other girls who get pregnant ''are a lot younger than you Hazel'', and ''why don't you think about becoming a cat breeder?'' and ''having your genetic child is important to you, but not to anyone else'' in the same breath as saying that a donor conceived child is unacceptable and that I should adopt. How does that make me feel? - that they will have a child in the family that is unrelated to us, but if it has 50% my genes, but not her son then it is unacceptable! 

huhmmmmmm!

OMG I realise now I am writing all of these horrible things down again, how all of the most horrible things that have been said over the last 10 years have stuck in the mind!


----------



## Sam76

Aww Hazel they are really horrible things for your MIL to have said, I feel like a total moo for posting my whinge. sorry hun   Hope that venting has helped a bit


----------



## GirlGamer

Sam just seen yr ticker fingers crossed for tomoz hun  
Hazel thats just arful ii want to hit yr mil is that ok? im fuming at those comments! tkae no notice hun and she'll be in hell soon  
my ex partners mum said to him during my icsi 2ww..wot wud u want to bring kids into this world for, its a horrible place these days....gob smacking, ive still never forgiven her, and she had iui to have him! so thought she'd understood   and decided there and then that if i was having her grandchildren she cud go ***k herself   thank god i never have to see her again  
GGxx


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Sam - don't worry dear - I was hoping to make you feel better!

Your MIL at least sounds like she is trying to say the right thing.

My MIL was surprisingly supportive during the IVF we did do last year and the resulting pregnancy and miscarriage. So not all bad.

I guess she has had to accept it as I am never going to give up - she is either with me or not. Her choice!

This thing about not wanting to bring children into this world - sometimes it crosses my mind - but in someone's 2ww is not the time to say it. It is not very supportive is it? I wonder if they say such things to protect themselves from disappointment?
Why can't they just say 'fingers crossed' or 'keep going hun' or 'we are here if you need anything'?


----------



## GirlGamer

she wasnt the brightest button anyway, lived in a very small world, had no idea wot i was having done not really, she knew we wee having something to have a baby but thats about it, she never showed any interest, and on my Ec day (which was the worst experiance for me coz it sorta went wrong) i was in bed in agony, and all she said to DP when he rang was am i ok? then spent half an hour (as per usual) waffling on about his cousins life, she was just ignorant about the whole thing....anyway as i said im well shut


----------



## poodlelover

Sam just seen your ticker!! 

Sending        

PL x


----------



## Claire223

Hi ladies,

I've just found this thread (my 5th treatment failed today)... I'm so sick of peoples comments....

*My favorite top ten stupid responses*

1 - When you least expect it, it will just happen? (Ha ha, my dh doesn't produce any sperm so that would take quite a bit of explaining)

2 - Why don't you just nip off for a one night stand? (Because I love my husband)

3 - Sorry to hear that {pause} by the way I'm pregnant and expecting twins.... 

4 - as your treatment hasn't worked, why don't you get a puppy

5 - Why are you so upset, its not like you had a miscarriage...... (Cheers, it's always so much nicer knowing your to perfect embies have rejected you again!!)

6 - Do you want me to get my husband to knock one out? (ewe)

7 - I'm sorry to hear you treatment had failed have you decided what your going to do with the baby stuff your sister gave you? It's just my 16 year old daughter is pregnant......

8 - Don't worry you can always try again...

9 - Are you sure you want to stay with dh? Divorces are always hard but...... (BUT WHAT?)

10 - At least you've got your health x

These are just a few of the many stupid things people have said to us (most of which have come from family and friends)....

I won't insult any of you with any hurtful insensitive comments.... I'll just say hello and thank you for this thread, it has helped me to remain my sanity x x x

Claire


----------



## Sam76

Claire so sorry hun - OTD for me today too and a BFN.
No words just a big


----------



## Claire223

Thank you Sam....   to you too  x x x x


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Claire and Sam  

This doesn't get any easier does it?


----------



## Mousky

Just passing by to send you all a big  

And special    to Claire and Sam.


----------



## espoir09

Well according to my uncle "I am a nasty little person" because I don't want the whole world to know that we have IF issues.

He also categorically guaranteed that I'm not infertile and that I will have a baby.  When I pointed out that the doctors don't share his opinion, I was told that I was over analysing things and talking rubbish about their medical evidence.

Gee I wonder why I don't spend more time with him?


----------



## Mousky

oh dear!


----------



## poodlelover

Sam and Claire~ sending you both   . It doesn't get any easier does it. Take care. 

Espoir ~ get the PP onto your uncle 

Hello to anyone else. Am psyching self up to visit the friend who gave birth on Val day to the baby she conceived the month after she got married last April, and who said "it'll be your turn next!!" when she told me she was 5 wks pg.   Had a text from her with photo of the baby saying "He is just perfect". How lovely. Thanks for that.  Aren't I a *****!!
PL x


----------



## Mrs Rock

No PL, not a ****, I'd say you're a trooper


----------



## poodlelover

Thanks Mrs R. Will remember that as am being forced to hold the baby. Am hoping all this is being "banked" for my future happiness. 

PL x


----------



## Tama

Claire     xx

Sam     xx

Poodlelover you are not a   I felt the same. It is very hard. Oh and I said no thank you to holding my friends baby. He is now 8 months old and I still haven't held him it's too hard.   x


----------



## poodlelover

Hi all
Finally psyched self up to visit friends new baby. Wasn't as bad as had thought. Am actually not that bothered by newborns it's when they develop personalities that it gets to me. Anyway only stayed 30mins and was glad as friend and her DH kept moaning about how knackered they were (baby 10 days old ffs) and how hard it was. There are 2 of them at home all day and what on earth did they expect I just said "Imagine if you had twins!!!!" Get a grip. Told my DH when I got home and he got quite mad and said" Don't wanna hear about their moaning. They've got FA to moan about. They don't know how lucky they are!" Well said that man.  

Glad I got it over and done with though. Had been dreading it since the birth announcement. Maybe will be able to leave the next visit til Xmas!!! Might be diff as they only live 5 mins walk away!!! 
Hope you all well. 
PL x


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Well done PL.

Everyone moans about their own problems. They probably think it makes us feel better, when in reality we dream of the day that we have to get up to feed. I expect we would also be tired and moan!

I was so upset when my friends have said they are pregnant, but actually do enjoy playing with them. The sad thing is that I feel that it might be the only interaction I will ever have with a baby so I had better make the most of it. Sometimes I see it as practice - when in a more positive mood.

I have had a couple of people NOT suggest that I hold the baby - one an ex IVF patient who I believe was deliberately not forcing the baby on me. But strangely I am not sure that made me feel better - probably worse!
How contrary! I went away feeling that I could not ask to hold the baby as I was not sure that she wanted her passed around, and maybe that it wasn't offered because she did not think I was good enough to hold her baby - how silly. Other people do say very stupid and hurtful things, but generally where the whole thing is concerned they probably can't ever do or say the right thing!!!


----------



## coweyes

poolelover.

Well done, i think we often worry so much about the "event" but when its hear its not that bad.  Felt really bad yesterday as my best friend said i was clearly uncomfortable around my other friends young child.  Believe me the comment was not meant nastily but felt slightly sad that it had been notices as i do try and hide it.  Think the problem is i don't really know how to act around children cos normally the people in the room know about our struggles so feel really watched there for the situation is not comfortable and natural for me, if you know what i mean.  Does anyone else struggle like this??


----------



## espoir09

I avoid all situations where there are children.  I simply cannot cope with it, particularly as we are now getting to the stage where not only do all of our friends have children but most of them are now on their second and I can only think it should be me.

My DH's nephew was born Dec 08 and I have never seen him.  MIL and FIL are brilliant and seem to totally understand how hard it is for me and they simply very quietly arrange things so that I don't come into contact with him.

Their quiet steadfast unquestionning support is one of the few things that keeps me going.  Some days I even think they understand better than DH bizarrely.

BTW can I send the PP after myself?  I woke myselp up at 5am this morning unbearably excited as I had dreamt that I had got my BFP.  We're going back to the cons next Thursday and I dreamt that when we got there he told us we were pg.

How mean of me is that?  I know that this month will be a BFN as we completely missed the right days in my cycle for BMS, yet I torture myself with false hope in my dreams!


----------



## coweyes

espoir09

I dont know how you attempt to avoid all children, there everywhere!!!! No i don't try to avoid them just bumble along with the situation which is obviously what my friend has noticed.  Made me feel a little sad really cos i try to continue with a normal life, but guess it gets the better of us all every so often.

I am sorry about your dream thats sooo cruel , i used to dream about my dad being here, after he had died  .  When you talk about BMS, i am sorry i don't know what that is.

Hope you feel a little better today.

xxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## espoir09

Hey Coweyes

Thanks for your post.  Am feeling v stressed at work today - I hate that drowning in paper and emails feeling, it just makes me panic which makes it all a million times worse.

I meant that I avoid all children within our social circles not every child everywhere - I'd never leave the house otherwise!

I'm taking deep breaths!

BMS is Baby Making S£x - that's one of my new words - I'm slowly learning all the jargon!!
Hope you're having a good day too


----------



## M2M

I had figured out BMS but what is BD?  My only thought is that it could be the "babymaking dance" or the "baby dance"  but I honestly don't know... sadly DP and I can't engage in that. Well we could but it would never work.


----------



## kitten77

BD = baby dance.    we make it sound so lovely dont we!


----------



## Mousky

Hey everyone  

M2M - I love your ticker


----------



## coweyes

espoir

sorry that work is difficult, i am sure its the last thing you need at the moment.  I am glad you have clarified the fact that you only avoid children in your social circles not the whole world!! ha ha i must learn to be less black or white as i often misunderstand people   i am a wolly.

Yer i am having a good day thanks, i am in the middle of my second icsi cycle so i am off to inject myself.  Is it wrong to enjoy injecting    xxxxxxxx

M2M your post made me laugh, you could just have fun trying  .Good to see we all still have a scene of humour. xxxx


----------



## poodlelover

Hello ladies

Agree with you all about the kids evrywhere, avoiding certain situations etc and I too feel people are looking at us with pity. 

Our lives really would be miserable if we didn't have a sense of humour. Some of the posts on here I am amazed how we manage to cope and see the funny side 

Onwards and upwards... 

Pl x


----------



## espoir09

I think its the companionship and support that we receive from this wonderful site that helps us through the darkest days.

I know I've found life a damn sight easier to deal with since joining FF.


----------



## Mousky

Here here


----------



## poodlelover

Me 3  

PL x


----------



## vickym1984

A stupid one today (a not thinking one as opposed to cruel but still)

Went out with my friend and her little one (16 months)  to a soft play centre. We got the bus into town first did a few things and  was heading to get the bus to the soft play centre. Her little one has been a little bit of a rascal, trying and was getting a bit stroppy. 

She was getting really cross with him and going "I'll shoot him in a minute" and not light heartily, really in a impatient and stroppy way. Now I must say this friend does have MH issues so I just try and discourage her talking like that and be light hearted about it all. 

She said, if it was you with him you'd say the same, and I just said "no I wouldn't" but she persisted and said that I would say the same, so again, more firmly I said I wouldn;t. Then the third time, she said, yes if it was you with him you would be exactly the same. I just lost my temper at that point and said , voice raised "just drop it ok" . 

Think she realised she had annoyed me at that point, still don't know whether she realises why though. I so wanted to shout "I would give anything to be in your position , so don't try telling me what I would or wouldn't do" but I restrained myself


----------



## coweyes

Vicky

Weird comment for someone to make about their kid!! can understand someone saying " o i will give him a good slap in a minute" just as a throw away comment but her comment was rather odd,  and to insist on it!! hope your ok, people say some odd stuff. xxx


----------



## guider

personally i tend to think it is the parents more often than the kids that need shooting


----------



## Fraggles

Hi All

I haven't been on board for a while say hi to everyone.

I am sure your friends insistence that you would say the same was one of those moments where she regretted hearing the words from her mouth and then didn't feel she could take them back. With a mixture of self-judgment "oh what a bad mum I am for saying that" she carried on digging her hole until she was unable to get out of it and was quietly worried what you might think of her as well so tried to justify it rather than fess up and say "I messed up I am so tired and worn out I didn't engage my brain before I spoke". Big hugs to you though Vicky.

What are MH issues - couldn't work out what the initials stand for.


----------



## Kitten 80

Hi all 

I think that these people just don't think Like Fraggles said don't engage brain before speaking specialy when they don't even no about IF issues they all take it for granted , sneeze and pop one out sort of attitude  , drives me mad.


----------



## vickym1984

Mental Health issues


----------



## Kitten 80

There is a lot of people like that


----------



## vickym1984

I mean she does have serious mental health issues, hence why I didn't have a go at her (she has borderline personality disorder)


----------



## Kitten 80

Oh sorry   well I no what its like when some one has mentle illness and you feel like you can not have a go but sometimes you have to be crule to be kind  

I have actuly got a mental illnes anxierty is an illness


----------



## coweyes

O sorry but i need to moan!

I go to a beading club where we all just sit around make things and chat.  The topic of conversation was dvds, it some how moved on to designer babies and then on to ivf! The lady opposite me said well i would never have ivf i would just adopt, she said it like ivf was wrong and adoption was such an easy solution. She kept on, so in the end i said "coming from someone who has had 2 rounds of ivf its not an easy dision, where she started to back track.  I said its not like " o they can't have children so just adopt thats the answer to the issue".  She then went on to tell me all about some relatives who could not have children, this was in front of about 7 other people that i don't know, just wanted the ground to swallow me up, but i stood my ground with out being rude.

I could see this lady had mild learning disabilities which made me feel even worse, cos i work with LD.  I could also tell that this was probably her mums opinion as she kept on talking about mum.  I really should not say this but i really did not like her, did not like her much before she started talking about ivf, sorry just feel angry. xxx


----------



## vickym1984

coweyes


----------



## coweyes

Vicky

Thank you feel better already, i will just let it go and try not to think of it again. xxxx


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

It would be lovely to think up a good retort to make them feel really small when these people start spouting off.
Unfortunately, I always seem to think of it later.

It would be nice to tell people that IVF is a personal choice, as is adoption, and what is right for one is not right for another, and no one has the right to tell another what to do. Plus it is a human right to have a baby.

What about the prisoner last week, who wants to get his girlfriend pregnant when he has 20 years left to serve?

I found the afternoon with my hairdresser very hard last week. She knows my situation in great detail. We got pregnant around the same time and she is still due, and I am not. She has 2 kids already in teens, and now this new baby - she wants a GA C-section and not that bothered if the baby is over sedated by the anaesthetic. Plus she doesn't want to breast feed as it tightens the womb and 'feels horrible' and is taking just 6 weeks off. Reckons she will be so bored she won't be able to wait to get back to work as soon as she can stand up after the c-section and it is going to be so hard not being able to drive for 6 weeks. And she has drunk alcohol, smoked and coloured hair all the way through. And she is older than me.
When I asked her the last time I went how many weeks she was, she had no idea. She even threw in the comment that while they have her undone for the c-section she is going to be sterilised.

After about an hour of this whilst waiting for colour to take, I decided to go and cry quietly to myself in the conservatory, only to be greeted with a changing station complete with nappies and baby wipes.

Why is life so hard?


----------



## coweyes

Hopeful Hazel

Sorry to here that, its so hard at the time to know what to say for the best.  I try hard not to come across too emotional or get angry cos i think i will end up getting more hurt than anyone else in the situation.


----------



## Kookymare

Hello Ladies 

I haven't been here for a while, was trying to move on after being told no more tx for us. It's not working, don't know how I'm gonna move on. Anyhoo, here's one..... my friend( who knows about my IF) invited me to a yummy mummy's coffee morning today. I'm sure she's not deliberately mean but isn't that just soo thoughtless!? Like I need it rubbing in my face that I'm not any sort of a mummy never mind a yummy one! Oh well just had to moan, thanks for listening.

Kookymare x


----------



## Kitten 80

Thats made me angry Hopeful  where is she and why did she say this in front of you


----------



## coweyes

kookymare

I bet she did not even give it a thought!  Just reminds me of how oblivious people are of our pain, just does not even enter peoples minds.  Did you point it out to her? might make her think twice next timexxx


----------



## Kitten 80

I would but in a nice way


----------



## coweyes

Yer i meant in a nice way. xx


----------



## Kitten 80

yer I no hon   just saying thats what I would do but in my head I would be screaming at her how selfish she is being and hurtful to peoples feelings.


----------



## M2M

Had someone on ******** post a thing on my wall saying "This message is being posted on your wall because you're a Lovely Yummy Mummy! Post this on the walls of all of your friends you consider to be Lovely Yummy Mummies." This is from someone who knows about our adoption disappointment and is perfectly well aware that I'm not a Mummy - well thanks for that!


----------



## Kitten 80

yer I had that and deleted it straight away was not impressed


----------



## Mrs Rock

M2M - I cannot believe that!  How insensitive!
I confess when people go on about their little darlings on their ** status all the time or start posting scan pics etc, I just de-friend them right away, I simply cannot cope with it.  Especially if things like that pop up on the news feed when I am off my guard, it can quite upset me, I just don't want other people's pregnancies/babies thrust in my face all the time.


----------



## Kitten 80

Glad I am not the only one I feel like that as well although haven't deleted them as yet.


----------



## Mrs Rock

Kitten rather than delete them, you can just 'hide' them from your news feed, but I prefer to just get rid


----------



## espoir09

Hmm, as in everything else I was a little bit more extreme and stopped using ********!


----------



## coweyes

Yer i find that hard esp if they are having a moan about what a hard day they have had cos kids are such hard work   be bxxxdy thankful you have them. xxx


----------



## poodlelover

Glad it's not just me who finds ** v depressing 

Been reading some of the truly thoughtless and insensitive comments etc on here. Makes me so mad . I hope I have never upset anyone by being so up my own a*@# and making awful comments or doing terrible things . Sometimes they just do not engage their brains before they speak/act , and that comment/action has such a major impact on us I'm sure they don't realise. I have lost count of the amount of times I have been deeply deeply upset by situations I have been in etc and I do not count myself as being particularly sensitive usually and am pretty together/upbeat but you can only take so much. Unfortunately IF makes you see things and people in a totally different light and I have found myself just avoiding situations/friends for my own sanity/self preservation.

Chin up ladies. As my nan used to say "We're alright, it's the others!!"  
Where's the PP when you need em eh? 
PL x


----------



## Kitten 80

I don't go on ** as much now eaither really.

I watched that 1 born every minit, I was just starting to feel sorry for the lady with the c section then she came out with oh bit disapointed he looks like his dad I thought WTF I don't give a dam if myn looks like me or DH as long as he/she is healthy  , epadural looks nasty tho don't it


----------



## kitten77

kitten80 - thats one programme i DO NOT watch, it would only be tourture! 

Kooymare -   i dont need to ask who this friend was do i!  this same friend on a sunday family meal sat her daughter next to me and then other SIL sat her son the other side!!!! WTF!!!!  so im now surrounded by kids and no adult conversation - thanks for that!


----------



## Mrs Rock

Oh the 2 kittens, I get a bit confused as have chatted to you both on threads I think!

I don't watch that programme either, would pee me off I think.  BUt I did watch "The Baby Bunch" last night about the Northern Irish sextuplets, I enjoyed it.  They are so gorgeous but their parents are really having to work so hard looking after them!  They seem like a lovely family.


----------



## Kitten 80

Mrs Rock it is confusing isn't it just remember I am the one with the lovely David Boreanaze pic  

I no that the program upsets me but I still watch it   love looking at there sweet faces


----------



## kitten77

The Kittens are out in full force today!!!!! and yes Mrs ROck i have chatted to you before. (i know that dont help you tho!!!)


----------



## Kitten 80

xxx
[/quote]


----------



## Mrs Rock




----------



## Mousky

Hello ladies,

How's everyone?

Well, no one really said anything stupid but I need to rant a bit   My friend told me she's sure her sister is going to be pg next year and this other person said she stopped smoking last month and "did everything right this month" so she's hoping she's pg. I know I'm the one being stupid but how can they possibly know?? And I'm actually convinced they do and they are going to get pg the moment they want to!
I mean, she stopped smoking? Wow, how impressive! I don't drink alcohol, coffee, no dairy, gluten, I eat a bunch of awful healthy stuff, have tried acupuncture, colourpuncture, super PMA, praying, not to mention all the tx jives, blood tests, scans, histeroscopy, maybe 2 biochems - I know many of you have gone through surgery and a lot of other things    - I'm now waiting for more results to see if I can try FET in May when I had prepared to do it now  
I actually hate myself for feeling like this, I know I'm just being jealous of them all who get pg so easily    

Anyways, sorry about my negative post. I just needed to let it out. I tried DH first but it didn't go so well  

Love to all!

Mousky xx


----------



## coweyes

Mousky

Its tough when others think its going to be so easy.  Its as if they live in a totally different universe to us!!  Its pot luck, yes it may happen easily for them or it may not.  I can totally understand why you feel this way as i would feel exactly the same.  Take a deep breath and be relived someone you love isn't going through what your going through.  I know its tough but you have enough to worry about, your not a bad friend, your just human.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Kitten 80

well said  Coweyes  

I also feel like that to makes you angry that you try your hardest.


----------



## coweyes

Kitten 80

Deferentially its like a kick in the teeth when others find it so easy.


----------



## Kitten 80

ARRRRRRRRR   thats all I can say, my poor FF on my other friend just had the 3rd scan after a BFP no heart beat   so she will have bubba taken out by the Hospital.


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Well, reading between the lines - it would seem your friend's sister has been trying a while - if she has given up smoking and is trying to do everything right 'this month'.
It is possible that she will also get to the dawning realisation in a few months time that she is going to need medical help.
We have all been there.
Come off the pill and think you will get pregnant. Period comes month after month. You start reading up about fertility. You start taking temperatures, improving lifestyle, monitoring mucus. Still the period comes month after month. You feel you are doing everything right each month.

Then you see a doctor and your world falls apart.

Now for my 'rant of the week' - I need a 'Harry Hill TV burp' style jingle!

There has been talk at work this week that they are getting tough on sick leave. It was mentioned in my management group meeting this week that we are going to have to send trigger letters to any of our staff who have reached the Trust trigger points - I believe more than 6 days in 6 months.

Feeling very fragile, I had to ask my boss whether she was going to send me one of these nasty little threatening letters after my miscarriage last year (they go along the line of 'we have noted your sickness is above the Trust trigger point and will be monitoring you - if you do not improve we will be taking disciplinary action etc...)  (I know it is sexual discrimination and they are not allowed to). She promised me that there was no way she was, although she had not cleared it with HR - hey - why would you have to When is it ever appropriate to threaten a woman in her job after she has been through such trauma

If you have pregnancy related sickness they are not allowed to use it in disciplinary.
I mentioned it to one of my colleagues -who is still in the pre trying to get pregnant phase, and she said - well at the end of the day, you were off sick and we had to cover your work - why should you be treated differently to other types of sickness. 

Eh? Because it isn't only sickness for a day under the duvet - it is physically traumatic (general anaesthetic, surgery, bleeding), emotionally traumatic and a death in the family. Plus all the loss of all your hopes and dreams. She would have liked me to have had the baby I am sure - but possibly more to do with her getting my mat leave cover job? Then I would have been off, and she would have had to cover my work - for a year!

If I had gone into work I would not have been able to do anything. I was crying non stop for 2 weeks. Even when I went back I cried on numerous occasions. I was off for 3 weeks in total - I have heard of some being off for 4 months after a miscarriage. If it had happened 7 weeks later I could have had my full year maternity leave.

Kitten - so sorry for your friend.  So disappointing.


----------



## poodlelover

HH
OMG that comment "well you were off and we had to cover you" is APPALLING!!!  Anyone would think you had been off with a virus FFS! Did you punch her?? Bet you were completely floored. I would never be able to forget that she had felt/said that. To have 3 weeks off in the circumstances is very little. I had 12 weeks off when I had an ectopic. It is totally traumatising and I think you did well to go back when you did.    What is wrong with these people?? Are they androids?? 
Really hope they don't dare send you one of those poxy letters too. Rip it up and post it back to them !! 

PL x


----------



## M2M

Someone at work has got pregnant with baby #2 by accident but she "doesn't really mind, I suppose".


----------



## poodlelover

Grrr that makes me  !!

Have just read in this weeks CLOSER mag about a teacher who took crack thru her pg and whilst BF~ luckily her son has been unaffected so far.

PL x


----------



## Mrs Rock

My Mum is a child protection crisis team social worker and says that hardcore drug addicts eg heroin always seem to have the most beautiful perfect babies.  I mean I'm glad the poor babies are unaffected but here's us even trying to cut out tea and coffee etc, where is the justice??!


----------



## Fraggles

Hopeful Hazel - permission to come out and carry out some dreadful deed on work colleague. Peestick Possee are we still carrying out missions of mercy

x


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Just been out - OMG - it is mothers day madness out there. Frantic dads with kids EVERYWHERE - ughhh!

I am finding it sooooo hard this year having this rammed down my throat at every corner. My mother and my baby are dead, while everyone, everywhere is in their happy cloud. Scream 

I think we need our own day tomorrow..... I want to be given a card, breakfast in bed and a bouquet of flowers...just once.....

The day will be called 
''Not a mummy yet, but hope to be some day''

Any other suggestions - what do you all think?

Mrs Rock. Those poor babies - some are very affected - they are on SCBU with withdrawal symptoms and some have birth defects. It does make you sick though. Born into that terrible life...

Fraggles - I would LOVE the PSP to come and carry out a deed of mercy on my behalf


----------



## coweyes

Hopeful Hazel

Go and do something nice for the day, walk on the beach and meal out or something. xx


----------



## vickym1984

to everyone for this especially tough weekend

HH-You deserve a sainthood for not punching your colleague


----------



## bankie

Lovely ladies this is for all of you (but especially Hazel....you did ask for it!   )



I hope that we all get through tomorrow in one piece and    that we'll be celebrating Mothers Day with our precious babies next year.

  bankie


----------



## Mousky

HH - what's the criteria for this monitoring? Any "disease"? Is this even legal? What if the person is an addict? Or depressed? Who will decide on the leave? I imagine how difficult tomorrow must be for you. Just wanted to send you a  

PL and Mrs Rock - That's what I always tell DH. We go through all this crazy super healthy diets but what about these ladies out there who have no problems conceiving while on real drugs? We even get to see many of them on the cover of Hello!  

Coweyes - I indeed hope she doesn't need to go through all this IF/TX   They're a young, healthy couple (just like we thought we were  ) married for not even a year and I would guess they would have to struggle with NHS madness. And with all this talk of cutting on IVFs... But like Hazel says we never know. My friend (the sister  ) told me almost 2 years ago she was convinced I would get pg on my first go   She has absolutely no idea I've been having all this investigation and that I'm collecting a fair amount of BFNs naturals and assisteds  

Bankie -      

 to all.

Mousky xx


----------



## Izzybear

Hi everyone, haven't been on for ages but as I'm back on the rollercoaster I'm back on the forum!!

Bankie, breakfast in bed, loved it!!

HH I work for the NHS and have just been told my annual leave request (to cover next EC & ET) may be declined due to staff shortages as both my immediate lines are off long term sick. I haven't had the conversation yet but didn't want to tell them why I wanted the time off. I can't work whilst my legs are in stirrups and the nice people at CARE are doing their bestest to get me pregnant!!

I am up for the PSP task, I think HH's colleague should be put in the paper shredder and see how she comes out the other end!



vickym1984 said:


> to everyone for this especially tough weekend


I second that Vicky


----------



## Mrs Rock

Oh oh oh I have just remembered.....

The lady a few pages back (not sure who now - will check back) who got sent the "you're an amazing Mom" post on ********?   It could be that it was sent by your friend's page without her realising as someone I know sent a load out recently and then posted apologising to everyone for the spam saying it had happened without her doing it.  Not much consolation I know, but thought I would let you know there's a chance your friend wasn't being an insentitive old boot after all


----------



## Mrs Rock

Just checked and it was M2M and it was a 'Yummy Mummy' (bleurgh) post not 'Amazing Mom' (double bleurgh) after all - but it could be the same sort of spamming thing on **.  Hope that helps hun xx 

Bankie - OMG LOVED IT!  I am fanning myself


----------



## Fraggles

Izzybear

Can you say that you need a laproscopy and that's why you wanted the leave??

F x


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Izzybear - I have been so far lucky in my NHS job with them being supportive, but I know there are some annual leave problems coming up around Easter and I am sure I am going to need a scan around then.

If push comes to shove you will have to tell them you need sick leave too for medical procedures.
It isn't like you are having a boob job or face lift for the fun of it - people forget it is a human right to reproduce - if that bloke who still has 20 out of 25 years in prison for drug trafficking has the right to get his girlfriend pregnant then we definitely have the right to try. Makes me MAD 

Anyway - (tongue in cheek) WHY can't you work with your legs in stirrups - I am sure that some of the mountains of paperwork could be done while the doctor is fiddling about! After all there are targets to achieve -   

I don't know if I mentioned it before - but I have a friend who is an obstetric anaesthetist. She was in hospital herself with severe pre-eclampsia - blurred vision, 3+protein in urine, raised blood pressure, heavily pregnant. She was in hospital where she worked (mistake?)
They had problems getting an IV line into a patient and knew she was there and as an anaesthetist is very good at lines - they actually asked her to go and try getting a line into the patient while she was in her hospital gown and had an IV line in her own hand and was very ill. Can you believe it - not allowed to be sick or on official maternity leave ourselves in the NHS - a bit of work can ALWAYS be done if you try!!!  
Goodness knows what the patient would have thought if another patient had turned up to treat them.


Bankie - I can confirm that the 'breakfast in bed' you sent us all was very tasty indeed, if not a little too steamy and hot, but now we shall want it every day! Never satisfied - ha! 

We also all need a bucket of iced water to go with it!


----------



## Izzybear

Hopeful Hazel said:


> Izzybear - I have been so far lucky in my NHS job with them being supportive, but I know there are some annual leave problems coming up around Easter and I am sure I am going to need a scan around then.
> 
> If push comes to shove you will have to tell them you need sick leave too for medical procedures.
> It isn't like you are having a boob job or face lift for the fun of it - people forget it is a human right to reproduce - if that bloke who still has 20 out of 25 years in prison for drug trafficking has the right to get his girlfriend pregnant then we definitely have the right to try. Makes me MAD
> 
> Anyway - (tongue in cheek) WHY can't you work with your legs in stirrups - I am sure that some of the mountains of paperwork could be done while the doctor is fiddling about! After all there are targets to achieve -


Hazel, not been there long and worried in case they try to check my story. Fraggles, thanks for your suggestion, I did say I'd had a gynae op previous so could say it was a follow on procedure.....

I could do the paperwork during EC to distract me as this time will be sedation when last time was all out knock out GULP Targets, targets, yes I have a [email protected]@@Y target too, to be pregnant!! 

Izzy xx


----------



## vickym1984

LOL

I have told my work what my time off will be for, and I have had to outline my plans to HR in case so they can approve my plan in case it sets a precedent.  

Not sure what you guys think

I have said I will use full days annual leave for EC, day after EC and day of ET, and that I will not know for sure when EC is until 1-2 days before, and ET perhapps the day of

For my scans, the clinic opens at 7am, but is in north london and I am in Herts, so anything between a 30-120 min journey, dependant on traffic. I will get as early as possible scans, and then get into work asap, and then add up the hours off for scans for one cycle and deduct them from my annual leave in days (ie if I have 12 hours off for scans, I will ask when I can use the additional 2 hours and then deduct 2 days from my annual leave)

Does this sound a fair plan?


----------



## Izzybear

vickym1984 said:


> LOL
> 
> I have told my work what my time off will be for, and I have had to outline my plans to HR in case so they can approve my plan in case it sets a precedent.
> 
> Not sure what you guys think
> 
> I have said I will use full days annual leave for EC, day after EC and day of ET, and that I will not know for sure when EC is until 1-2 days before, and ET perhapps the day of
> 
> For my scans, the clinic opens at 7am, but is in north london and I am in Herts, so anything between a 30-120 min journey, dependant on traffic. I will get as early as possible scans, and then get into work asap, and then add up the hours off for scans for one cycle and deduct them from my annual leave in days (ie if I have 12 hours off for scans, I will ask when I can use the additional 2 hours and then deduct 2 days from my annual leave)
> 
> Does this sound a fair plan?


Vicky, not sure if you could get some of the scans under "normal medical appointments" and not have to take leave for them?? Apart from the flexibility of late notice for your leave it seems that your employer isn't "giving" you much. On my first cycle, the hospital offered to sign me off for the full 2ww under the guise of post operative recovery. Can't use that this time round with new job.

Izzy
x


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

You really should not have to use annual leave for this - the egg collection is a surgical operation under anaesthetic sedative drugs - so you are not fit to work for 24 hours afterwards.
You would not have to take annual leave for a day case operation - which is what this is.

I was in so much pain after my EC that I had to call in sick on the Friday. I had my egg collection on a Wednesday (my day off) and had already booked the day after off as planned sick leave. Because I am a pharmacist I sign legal documents all day and therefore am not legally allowed to after IV sedation for 24 hours, but even the day after that I was in so much pain I could hardly move and should have been taking pain killers that would make me under the influence.

You do not know until you see how it affects you.

Recommendations are for you to do very little for 72 hours after ET. So only you can say whether it is doing to much to go back to work. After mine - which ended up on a Saturday, I did nothing on Saturday afternoon, Sunday, worked at home on Monday and changed my normal day off to Tuesday, I had bad cramps on Monday and Tuesday - Which I now believe was when my baby implanted and I got a BFP.
I am glad I gave it the best chance. 

As for scans - you can't say they will definitely have an appointment early morning.


----------



## coweyes

Hopeful Hazel hi we always bump into each other, ha ha.  I spoke to my boss and the head of HR about this and unfortunately ivf is seen as a life style choice and not sickness or illness.  Unless i was taken ill after ivf or because of ivf then i could not claim sick pay.  Such as when i had ivf i used holiday and toil taken but when i had a miscarriage (from ivf) i was able to use sick.  It may be different in different companies but i know my HR manager has been the head (or just very high up?!) in Salisbury's and said this was also the case there. xxx


----------



## vickym1984

Thanks Hazel, however, any sickness at my company is no pay for the 1st day and then half pay for the next 4 days before you get to full pay

Obviously if I am ill or in a lot of pain I won't hesitate to take time off and loose the pay, but if everything goes normally happy to take AL for the days I need

Clinic seems good at offering early morning appts where needed from the time I have spent on my clinics thread on here


----------



## Izzybear

Coweyes, just seen in your signature that you have OTD this week, how do you feel?

Izzy
x


----------



## Kitten 80

Wow Banki I love that pic mmmmmmmmmmmmm tasty


----------



## bankie

I'm glad that you all liked my little 'pressie' to you all!    

Seriously though, I dread Mothers Day every year and am relieved that it's over for another year.  Hope that it wasn't too bad for you all.

 bankie


----------



## Kitten 80

Me to had a cry I was ok until we went round MIL and she kept on about some family member falling again with her third child she can be so insensitive.


----------



## coweyes

Izzybear I am ok thanks, obviously nervous just want it so so much this time around.  I will keep you posted. xxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Kitten 80

I am excited for next round   but I bet when the time comes I will be nervous


----------



## poodlelover

Good luck for OTD coweyes!!      
PL x


----------



## joeyrella

i spent saturday night with a friend who has a 4 month old baby.  she was complaining bitterly that this was her first mother's day and her husband hadn't even sorted her out a card or present.  i nearly had to bite through my tongue.  fancy having the joy of having a lovely healthy baby in your life every single day and not even getting a card to show for your 'troubles'!


----------



## Izzybear

Coweyes

Good luck for tomorrows testing

Izzy
x


----------



## coweyes

BFN for me


----------



## Mousky

I'm truly gutted for you


----------



## kitten77

im soo sorry.


----------



## Tama

coweyes I'm so so sorry hun.


----------



## Kitten 80

So sorry Coweyes   give your self some time to heal


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Coweyes


----------



## Showgirl

Hey ladies  

Haven't been on in a while but wanted to post something very insensitive someone said to me - it was a relative who visited with her second (totally unplanned shock of course!) baby, hard enough situation for me, really had to syke myself up for it but thought I managed to get through it okay. The baby was teething at the time. And her Mum was at the end of her tether dealing with the sleepless nights and things because of it, she said to me - "It's not all sweetness and light having babies, you know (er yeah I know, I'm not stupid!) I haven't had any sleep in 4 nights! You might be better off not being able to have any kids atall!" I just was gob smacked, how could someone say that!? I would give my right arm to be up all night with my child teething!!!   

Totally know where you are all coming from with regards to ******** etc - I was part of a 'TTC after losing a baby support group' before and I did make some very good friends, most of them on ******** etc now, but I am now the last one left of us all who hasn't had a baby yet or got successfully pregnant and doesn't have any kids yet.  It's very hard to hear all about their babies and pregnancies all the time when I am still so behind  

Hugs to all   xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Showgirl

I'm so sorry just saw coweyes post, so sorry to hear about your BFN hun, huge  

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Kitten 80

I can not stand that comment I have had that said to me also by a man WTF does he no for 1 he has no kids 2 he wouldn't no the emotional bond like we do


----------



## Mrs Rock

Coweyes, I'm so sorry


----------



## coweyes

Thank you ladies

Just going to concentrate on getting our house finished as its really fallen by the way side since we discovered we had IF issues.  We are also going to use our FET when we are ready, but there are some medical loose ends that i need to tie up before we do it.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Kitten 80




----------



## bankie

Big hugs to you coweyes    I'm so sorry hun.


----------



## beachgirl

Coweyes    oh hun, so sorry to hear that it's not worked,big hugs sweetiepie x


----------



## poodlelover

Coweyes 
Really sorry to see your BFN     
Take care  
PL x


----------



## Izzybear

Coweyes

Sorry to read your news  

Take care
Izzy
x


----------



## Fraggles

Coweyes


Hugs. Sorry to see your news.

F x


----------



## lornam41

Really sorry coweyes   
xx


----------



## Sparklyone

So sorry Coweyes   

Ok need to ask girls am I being too sensitive? Having had 3 BFN things are getting harder. 

This weekend I jokingly commented to my MIL that I my nose was put out of joint as I was not asked to be god mother to my new niece by my SIL/BIL. This was purely a joke as everyone knows I am an atheist and would probably have burst into flames making any promise to god. However then my MIL said actually you nearly were, it was discussed but your SIL thought it would be too hard for you due to your fertility issues. Now I know that this was them trying to be thoughtful and sensitive to me but in fact I am quite hurt. Why should anyone miss out on being a godmother or be treated any differently if they have fertility problems? Yes obviously my problems causes me pain but there is more to me then just the fact I am having trouble conceiving. I find this a bit patronising - its the same when people don't tell me they are pg as they think its going to hurt me - I want to know like any normal person as I am a normal person. My infertility is not the whole of me.

Is it just me or am I being over sensitive? My mum tells me I am. 

I have nine nieces and nephews (2 my side 7 on my DHs) and love them all. I find it difficult when I am being constantly being pressurised into seeing my nephews particularly by my sister when she decides it has been too long between visits. My parents are obsessed with there 2 grandchildren and if they are even in the vicinity cant actually hold a conversation with me for being distracted by there mere presence. I have told them I do not want to visit at easter as it will be all about my two nephews and my sister's in laws that have also been invited by my sister. I would end up helping my mum cater for everyone and would barely be able to have a conversation with my Mum or Dad as they will be fixated on the grandchildren. When I tried to explain to my Mum she said I obviously disliked my nephews being around and that I am over sensitive. Obviously I am just a crazy old barren woman who does not like her nephews which could not be further from the truth. Me not visiting often even though they are 5 hours away and I am renovating a house full time for us to live in just adds to the fire that I am a poor aunt and it must be my issues with infertility.

Sorry if that went on a bit I did not realise how these things had upset me before I started typing and it just all came out. Thanks for listening  . I thought I was a fairly rational person and never had a problem with others children or pregnancies. It is more that I am being treated differently by others that hurts. Would love to hear if anyone thinks I am being oversensitive and that this fertility malarky is finally catching up with me and making me crazy. 


Sparklyone

xxx


----------



## coweyes

Sparklyone

Hi.  Its a tough one.  I was asked to be a god mother for my friends little girl about 2 years ago and i had to say no!  The reason i said no was because i unsure that i would be able to for fill the role as i would have liked because of my fertility issues.  My heart really would not have been in it.  When i told my friend she totally understood and said they really had considered whether it was the right thing to ask me or not.  I think that you have to remember that IF issues does effect more than you and your partner it does unfortunately also effect family and friends often because they dont know what to say and of course because they dont want to upset you.  Personally i would just let it go as your family are only trying to do what is best by you, often people can not do right for doing wrong, and that is no ones fault.

Don't give yourself any unnecessary stress

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Sparklyone

Thanks Coweyes for the perspective - it just helped to write it down xxxxxx I am so sorry for your BFN - it just is so hard. All the best for your FET.


----------



## coweyes

Sparklone

Thanks. xxxxxxxxx


----------



## Mrs Rock

Sparklyone said:


> I find this a bit patronising - its the same when people don't tell me they are pg as they think its going to hurt me - I want to know like any normal person as I am a normal person. My infertility is not the whole of me.


Sparklyone, I admire your attitude on this. I agree with Coweyes that it's almost impossible for friends and family to know how to approach the issue for the best. I am the opposite to you - I would rather completely bury my head in the sand, when people around me get pg I don't want to know and certainly don't want to have to see them! Not sure how long I can realistically take this approach but it seems to be the only way I can cope so far.

On Saturday we had some friends staying and another couple also came over to join us for lunch. They got married in Sept and started trying for a baby then (we've been trying for the past 2 years and they know about our IVF). She was not drinking but made a big point of saying that that he was the one driving so he couldn't drink either....I went cold and spent the whole afternoon expecting a pg announcement, which never came. She must've gone to the loo about 15 times as well. The dread spoilt my day a bit, I would simply rather not know. Won't be seeing them again in a hurry.


----------



## coweyes

Mrs Rock and Sparklyone

Lets be honest the whole thing is boxxdy tough, tough for us and tough for people who care about us!  I try really hard to be strong about it all and not to avoid situations where children are involved.  But i do find it very very hard, but try really hard not to show it.  But the worst thing i struggle with is pg announcements, and they ALWAYS come at the worst time!! guaranteed.  I had an ectopic pg a year ago and i was waiting to go down to theatre to have it removed, i got a text from a friend saying she had just had a baby girl (my friend did not no) but omg what timing  .

I find it all difficult socially as i never know how much, if anything to tell people.  I have made the mistake loads of times of being to honest and telling people, just to have them make stupid comments or dismiss it.  Now i don't really tend to tell people.  But it does leave me feeling lonely and detached from society, does any one else feel this way?  We have even got a friend who does not bother with us any more cos she has a baby, it was not quite that black or white but near enough.  They are over the moon about it all and our friendship is a bit of an inconvenience to them as they don't know how to handle the fact that life is not so rosy for us!  I also struggle when friends moan about their life and about how tough it is to be a parent! I just think if only  .  I am not saying its their fault, but just reminds me of how little we have in commen, which makes me even sadder. xx


----------



## livity k

Hi Everyone,

Sparklyone- I don't think you are being oversensitive and I agree with Mrs Rock and Coweyes about the practical impossibility of people saying the right thing- however good they are because my I know from my point of veiw what I feel changes regularly... 

People do feel awkward and that's one of the worst things about IF- My cousin for example is having the worst pregnancy ever- massively debilitating morning sickness and is now blacking out regularly and noone knows why but I know she feels she can't complain to me- whereas I think- god what she's going through is tough - and I'd rather she felt she could complain to me, 

Also my best friend is just preg- and I was upset when I found out as she'd made a big thing of not trying for a baby yet and actually had been since last march- I think I found it hard because she was in my "well if it takes us longer she'll be maybe be alongside me then" and upset she hadn't been open with me when she knows about tx, that said I know she felt awkward telling me and that's what I hate most- I should be able to be unqualifiedly happy for her and she shouldn't have to worry about me, 

I have said to my younger sister  who just got married that if she gets preg before me while I will be happy for her I would like to know if she is trying so I can mentally prepare a bit- does that make sense? She was great about that,

Anyway what you were saying rang bells with me so just wanted to add to it, 

Livity


----------



## Tama

Coweyes I totally get what you mean. My best friend had a baby last year and since then I have seen her twice! I used to see her all the time, spend afternoons together and weekends but now nothing. I have to add that most of that is down to me. I just can't cope with seeing her with the baby. I know this is totally selfish but it's just how I feel. I spent a lot of time worrying that I was upsetting people but came to the conclusion that if they are my friend they would understand the pain I must feel and therefore forgive me for not being stronger about it all. I think you are brave to go out and mix with bumps and babies I have to say I hide away from it. So many people try to say 'oh but doesn't it make you feel more positive when you see me/them with their baby, knowing that it will be you soon'. The answer is no it bl**dy doesn't it makes me think more about the fact that I don't have that and do not know if I ever will. I guess if you have not been through it you can not understand.

Sorry that was more like a rant than a reply! Sorry!   x


----------



## livity k

Just to add- whereas my instinct would sometimes be to not to see people- e.g. my friend who's recently preg- I think I have to make myself to stop it building up- 

She was at something with other friends at the weekend and I was slightly dreading how I'd feel but actually it was much easier once I saw her because I like her- and she is not defined by being pregnant 

I think it will get harder though as when we first started I was fine with other people being preg now its taking longer it is definitely more of an issue and more of a left behind feeling,

Livity


----------



## coweyes

livity k

I think your right the anticipation is often worse than the event.  My sil is pg and i would be due exactly the same time as her if i had not had a miscarriage.  I dont see her often cos she lives abroad but i have seen them a few times.  The thought and worry of it all has always been worse than the event, but i will let you know if i feel that way when she is born!  .  No only kidding i am sure i will struggle a bit, and i except that but i will get over it pretty quickly.


----------



## Mrs Rock

Girls, you're all so blinkin brave you are


----------



## coweyes

Mrs Rock
Count me out of that one cos there is nothing brave about me! Just doing what i have to, to keep my sanity and hopefully one day get what i really really want and look back and be proud of how i/we coped as a couple. All we have in life is our attitude xxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Mrs Rock

I like that thought, to look back and be proud of how/we coped.  I haven't thought of it that way before, been too busy feeling resentful at having to go through this at all


----------



## coweyes

Mrs Rock

I think we are all slightly resentful and bitter about it all, i am.  But i want to remember why we are in this mess, its cos my dh and i are very very in love so wanted a baby, the rest is no ones fault.  If we get to have children i know it will be a great story to tell.  How we were so in love we wanted to extend out love and have a child.  How it did not go to plan but we stayed strong, strong for ourselves and each other and we worked at it and at our relationship, how it was all ok in the end, more than ok its was blooxy fantastic. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

God i sound soppy! xxxx


----------



## Irish Dee

Hello ladies,

I wrote this post about remembering why we are doing this.............
****************************************************************************
It's important to remember.....................

As we embark on our 3rd cycle, I'm going to try to make some sense of the infertility nightmare, I've tried to put down a few thoughts about how I feel about it all.  

Sometimes I get so obsessed about having a baby, I kind of forget the reasons that I wanted one in the first place.  Myself and my DH were chatting about this the other night and we have come to a few realisations.

We are only in this situation because firstly we found each other, fell in love and decided that we would live out our lives together.  We have managed to build ourselves quite a nice life that we hope to share this with a little one.  

I picture myself on our wedding day, before infertility stole effortlessly into our lives and put it's isolating cold hand around our hearts.  We were so happy and I honestly felt like the luckiest woman in the world.  Realistically, we still have what we had that day, each other and the love and happiness we had then.  But sometimes, it seems easier to think about what we don't have....................  

Secondly, we are not looking for a baby to 'fix' us, to make up happy or to give us a distraction from any misery/unhappiness. 

Thirdly, and this one took me some time to realise. At 38, I've always believed that I would love to have a baby, but if it was the most important thing to me, I'd probably have had a baby in my 20's. 

I was 32 when I met my husband and I never, ever considered having a baby when I was by myself. Who knows, if I was single, perhaps I would spend  lot if time on 'Match.com' instead of FF!!!!!!!

More than a baby, I always wanted a family and that is only possible with our lovely husbands/partners. 
We are our own little family and one day we will hold a little hand in ours!!!!

When faced with infertility it sometimes feels that it is the hardest thing in the world.  There are hundreds of thousands of people out there struggling every day with their own demons.  

Even though I sometimes think enviously about friends/family who have children, would I actually swap what I have for what they have?  If I was actually given the choice that I could have a baby, but I would have to make serious changes to my own life, would I do it?  The answer is no.

Most people struggle with something.  Illness, unemployment, a sick parent, a sick child, money worries, lack of understanding, lack of fun, lack of intimacy, lack of love.  I think we often forget that there are more ways than infertility to put a negative impact on our lives.  

I have to believe that one day, our prayers will be answered and we will become parents.  

Every success story that I read on FF has the same message.  Everyone says that as soon as you hold your little one in your arms, the years of pain and heartache just melt away.

If that is the case, I don't want to waste a minute of my life worrying and being upset about something that I have absolutely no control over.

I only have one life and this is my intention.  I'm going to enjoy mine.  I'm going to enjoy my husband.  I'm going to enjoy my friends.  I'm going to enjoy my freedom (even though it is imposed on me!)

I will do all I can, for as long as I can to create a baby, but in the meantime, I'm going to have some FUN!!!

Babydust to all,

Dee


----------



## Mrs Rock

Dee
I really love that, I could have written it about myself (except I'm not that clever), thanks x


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Dee, That is lovely.

I wish my life was as you describe.
There is one statement that unfortunately rings too true in my life - the one about all of the negative impacts that could be in our lives. I am not physically ill at the moment, and my sick child (that was unborn) is already in heaven, but I struggle with all of the other ones you mention as well as infertility. Infertility has robbed me of so much. I feel like a shell walking around and I won't be whole until I have a baby.

OMG- I feel so sad.

If I had been pregnant still, I would have been released from this prison in 4 weeks.
I had to endure seeing a nurse this week that I did a course with last year when I was 15+5  and she was 15+3. She is still having her baby (that was unplanned and she didn't want). I ran out of the office in tears.


----------



## coweyes

Hopeful Hazel

Life is so cruel xxxxxxxxxx


----------



## kitten77

hazel -   - it is very hard and i am so so sorry for your loss. 

we do have to think of the good things we have and that those good things we will share WHEN we have that little one in our arms. it is hard, i struggle each and every day, the feeling of being left behind is overwhelming now, it just used to be jealously, but we ahve been trying for 4 years, and now feels like all our friends are moving on and we are still stuck in the same place as we were 4 years ago....thats hard, how to watch people fall pregnant with the click of their fingers and get on with their lives....when...we are still in the same place. 

had a 3 year olds birthday party at the weekend, and there was a new born there, the mum.....well....the mum didnt want me to hold it as she knew about our infertility.....WTF!? what am i gonna do....run out the door with it! that hurt.  

just feel so down abotu it all, try to get on with life, but really dont wanna, wanna have to get up in the night for my baby, wanna plan stuff around my baby....but as it is....im stuck in an office, day in day out, living for the weekends wheni wish i could be planning things for our child, but back to work and the years are passing me by.....


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Kitten - that is so true - I feel exactly the same. All my friends are getting on with their lives, while I am stuck.

They are all playing happy families, while I am drudging on in a life that I didn't want in my dreams. Day in, day out the same with very little to look forward to.

They are planning. I can't see the point in life.

What does my old age have in store for me - nothing?
If I don't have a child I have no weddings, no family, no grandchildren..... way into the future.

IF has ruined my life.
I have to keep trying to resolve it, because I can't stand the thought of the alternative.

I am sure that I don't get given babies to hold, because they think I might steal them. Even felt I wasn't allowed to hold a baby from a previous IVF patient recently. I don't know whether she was trying to protect my feelings, as she perhaps thinks that she didn't want babies thrust upon her when she was doing IVF.
I am sure that one of my friends has not let me baby sit because she thinks I might disappear in the night. 
Why on earth would I do that - I want my own baby.


----------



## coweyes

Kitten77

Its tough, i feel quite isolated and feel as if i dont have any real connection to a lot of my friends anymore.  I have one good friend who has a young son, she has had a real rocky ride with him as he has been very unwell, anyway even though he is quite a sickly child the outcome has been very good considering.  My friend has never been a happy smiley person and has always been a bit old before her time.  But i struggle to spend any time with her now as she is just so negative and draining.  I try my up most best be to upbeat and happy even with the things that life has thrown my way, yer she has had a rough time but i think she should be grateful at the positive outcome she has had, could have been a lot worse.  Anyway i would never say anything to her as its just the way she is.  I have tried to explain how i feel to our other friend but she get the impression she just thinks i am being a bit mean on her.

How do others handle the whole friend situation?


----------



## Frindabelle

I'm the same Girls, my friends just don't really get it, bless them they have tried though.
Hopeful hazel, I know what you mean I'm often paraniod that people will think I'm a 'baby snatcher' now.
I love kids, but I want *'my'* baby not theres!! 
xxx


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Coweyes - unfortunately I feel like the negative draining friend that you describe. This more than anything is making me start not to bother making contact. They don't bother to make contact with me, so that probably means that they don't want to, and are just being polite when I ring them to arrange something.

I am fed up with it. I don't want to drain my friends or for them to groan when they think they have to meet up with me, so from now on I think I will just have to be totally alone. My hubby says I am negative and draining too, I stopped trying to speak to him years ago. There is only so many times that someone can tell you to shut up before you actually do. Work colleagues don't want to hear it either. I feel like leaving my job so that I don't have to listen to anyone going on about babies, maternity leave and their happy social lives and relationships. 

They so all think that they are going to meet the man of their dreams and within 2 minutes of deciding to come off the pill they will get pregnant.

There is a 24 year old at work pregnant and she is leaving to move back to parents as she is so young she needs their support - it wasn't planned and people are saying she should have waited and poor her.
If I could have my time again, I would have had a baby at her age. It was always the most important thing to me- everything I have ever done has been nest building. My education, career, house purchase and saving has never been about being a career woman or getting materialistic things - it has been building a secure nest for my offspring. As soon as I met DH we planned for a baby. I was 28 then.

I can't talk to my parents in law as they think we should just get another interest in life like breeding cats.
I can't talk to my dad as he is elderly and worries.

My elderly neighbour listens - she could not have children before you could do anything about it - she totally understands. But she is not lonely in her old age, because she has lots of brothers and sisters and is quite outgoing with WI and church.

Does anyone else feel so isolated and unable to talk to anyone. People only want to hear good happy news. I don't want to be the tragedy that everyone avoids.


----------



## coweyes

Hopeful Hazel

I am sorry that you are feeling so low.  But its really not surprising with everything you have been through.  It sounds to me as if you could be a bit depressed?  Do you have a supportive gp that you can talk to and maybe get some help and advise from? Or maybe your clinic has a counciller? 

I am sorry you arnt able to talk to your husband this much put a huge strain on things.  Its sounds as things have just come to a head and you are struggling to cope with it all   .  Please go and see your dr and see if there is anything they can do to help.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Kitten 80

Hopeful you have been though so much but I agree with Coweyes you do sound depressed honey and its very common in infertility but remember we are always here but maybe speak to a professional as well


----------



## charlie_44

I think this infertility 'lark' does make you feel isolated.  I have lost some friends along the way and I've also closed off to some to.  I feel like I'm in a bubble most of the time and that my life is on hold, it's hard to get on normally with things and not think of it constantly.  My family and friends are supportive but they don't fully understand, how can they.  Thankfully I can bash my hubby's ears and my lovely friend Lou's  (Hi Lou ) who I met through here and of course the lovely ladies on FF.  I wish the drudgery would end - I want to move on to my family life (don't we all).  

Sparklyone - I know how you feel about your parents with their grandkids.  I often feel like a spare part with family stuff but they can't see my side of it.  I can be mid sentance (sometimes discussing infertility stuff) when my parents attention is lost to the grandkids or to talk about them       

 to all.


----------



## Tama

Hopeful Hazel sweetie I'm so sorry you are feeling so low    Like the others have said it is not hard to see why you feel like this with everything you have been through. Last year I felt so low that I had to have three weeks off work. I didn't want to see anyone, speak to anyone, all I wanted was to hide at home away from everything. It is isolating and can make you feel like there is no where to turn. Is there anyone on FF that lives locally to you that have meet ups? I have found that having people to talk to that are in the same position so very helpful. I too met a wonderful friend on FF we chat and have met up. I have also met up with some FF ladies from my local thread. I would recommend doing that if it's possible. I think speaking with your GP is a good idea too, maybe they can recommend someone for you to talk to as well. It must be very hard if you are not able to speak about this with your dh. Do you think going together to speak to someone would help? I know it is not the same thing but we are all here for you.


----------



## kitten77

dont know how we cope sometimes hey!

just had the phone call i was waiting for, my SIL is preganant, 9 weeks gone. happy for them, but again....being left behind....this is the same SIL who started trying the same time as me, now on her 2nd. oh joyful. 

managed to hold it together on the phone. nearly broke when she asked about IVF and hows it going, she said i was brave and that i seem to keep it all together....oooh if only they knew hey!!!! she then said that i never talk about it.....but why would i want to bore everyone with it, just feel like im a stuck record, the first round of ISCI they were interested, 2nd...still interested....then after that it was boring. so why would i say hey.  not having a go at her, she is most lovely and pleased out of everyone that its her but sorry for myself. 

even the 'new' cat who lived in our garden and now lives with us knows im sad, she has just given me the biggest fluffist hug ever, bless her.

anyway, gonna stop moaning now and go and have a bit more of a cry.


----------



## Mrs Rock

Aw Kitten, I would feel exactly the same.  You have a cry as I think sometimes you just have to get it out, and tomorrow you'll feel a bit better    .  What a lovely kitty you have, animals are a comfort aren't they, I would like a dog for that reason!


----------



## charlie_44

Kitten 77    We get very good at hiding our feelings - except behind closed doors    You have a good cry  

My cousin's wife recently had a baby and I didn't feel up to seeing them as they'd been a bit smug about it on ******** but last week mine (and my cousin's) aunt arranged to meet me and my DH for a coffee but didn't tell us she had invited my cousin's wife and tiny baby along.  (I had already told my aunt I wasn't ready to see the baby yet as she knows our situation.)  So we had to sit there and coo away with it all being baby talk - we couldn't get away fast enough.

The things we have to go through


----------



## Fraggles

MMM charlie am so sorry, oh why do people not listen to what we say.


----------



## kitten77

we do have to go thro some poop dont we! thats wrong of your aunt 

had a bit of a cry, but hey ho, nothing i can do about it, crying isnt gonna help!

just wanna lift this feeling of sadness


----------



## Fraggles

Ooh Kitten sending you lots of hugs - it is so difficult to hear about others is it. In my job people perhaps that should read women keep coming in and are pregnant. Happy for them but think go away. I am also a therapist and I keep attracting people who are stressing about having left it too late to have children, are worried about their biological clock ticking or have terminated a pregnancy due to difficult circumstances. All things to be upset about and I am sympathetic but so wish my clients had other presenting symptoms as it is so close to home and definitely not intentional that I am attracting or the universe is sending clients like this. I wish the universe would go stick its nose where the sun don't shine.
F x


----------



## Branston Pickle

Hi Ladies

I havent posted on this thread before, but I had to put this idiotic drivel on to see if anyone else had seen it and been as furious as me!      

I had been at my GP and she mentioned that ASDA were doing IF medication at cost price so I thought I would have a gander. There was a big article from Asda pharmacy then comments from people saying how it was such a good idea and its unfair we should have to pay such inflated prices....and in amongst it was this "poison!"

[fly]Be warned you may be offended - not my opinion - something I found online[/fly]I feel incredibly bad for those who are infertile and i understand why they take the oppurtunity to have IVF treatment. However i am against IVF, as I PERSONALLY believe that life begins at the point of fertilisation; but IVF fertilises many eggs, knowing that only a few will survive. I know that these are MY personaly, opinions and many people may disagree. But the reason i am saying this is because, by reducing the cost of IVF treatment drugs, you are making IVF even more accessable to more people. Effectively, increasing IVF treatment and possibly the deaths of even more fertilised eggs, which many people in the country, consider as LIVES. IVF causes the death of innocent lives and for these reason, i urge ASDA, to reconsider this idea. Thank-you

Firstly I couldnt believe what I was reading , and secondly i couldnt believe Asdsa actually allowed it to be published! 

I know from reading back a few pages that there are people who are struggling just now. Massive hugs for everyone 

LTR xx


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

Well - we all won't bother to create any new lives at all then - sorted. I can go out and be happy now that I won't be killing any more children.

What about all the naturally fertilised eggs that don't implant? I bet he/she still has sex? If he/she really felt like that they should go and be sterilised so they can't fertilise eggs that might die.           

The people that say this sort of thing obviously do not walk in anyone else's shoes. Makes me start dreaming of what could happen to them to make them see another point of view.

In Italy though - they only collect 2 eggs I believe, and you have to have all created embryos returned.


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## Fraggles

Perhaps I can blame PMT but is kneecapping too extreme for asda lady?


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## Branston Pickle

Fraggles -  Form an orderly queue


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## charlie_44

Morning all 

Fraggles - course you can blame PMT    I blame the drugs/hormones for everything, even when I'm not on them  

Kitten - hope you feel a lil better today

Hazel and LTR - I really wish people could walk a bit in our shoes - oh if only.  They definately wouldn't be so quick to judge - I'm sure their opinions would change.


----------



## M2M

Oh, the "IVF is murder" crew drive me mad. They're crazy, plain and simple.   They're just as bad as the "Why don't they just adopt?" crew and the "Children should only be created through lovemaking between a husband and wife" crew. They're also the sort of people who would change their minds in a flash if they discovered they were infertile.


----------



## kitten77

OMG i cant belive i just read that! is that women so pig sh*t thick that she has that view. what about all the people who have unfortunatly miscarried, did they murder the children too? thats made me sooooo angry, like you all have said if only they could walk in their shoes then their opinions would change in a heartbeat.  and yes i bet this women is the women who falls pregnant if her husband just looks at her!  

do you know if you can reply to these comments on asda website? if so i think we should all go on their and give our opinion!!!!


----------



## Frindabelle

Omg, what an idiot that woman is.   [email protected] 
and I'm sure ASDA will really listen to you,muppet!

I wonder if it is religious beliefs that give her that opinion?  All the same, fancy her wasting her time writing about it


----------



## Kitten 80

She maybe religious but like someone said bet she/he still has s&x stupid c??  , yes it is upsetting when our little embys don't make it but it would happen in or out the womb I am so angry let me at her  .

The other night I went to my friends little boys 2nd Birthday tea and her friend who lives next door was there all standing in lobby having a *** (well not me I don't smoke) and she just blurts out in front of strangers so how is your IVF going     when can you start again     I stuttered 6 months (lie really 2  ) while her 12 month bubba is running around crying she said oh mummy can't pick you up go to kitten she likes baby's I thought you cow rub it in why don't you.


----------



## Mousky

I've been away from the thread for a while and OMG    
What a bunch of   people are still saying/doing.

I'd like to send you all a massive    and loads of 

I identify with a lot that was said here.
I also feel very alone and isolated as I don't want to talk about IF with others.
Maybe it's a bad thing I don't trust "my" people but I'm sure they'll say something stupid or will just dismiss it (someone mentioned it here) Even DH says stupid things every now and then, meaning well  

I also have some other problems going on in my life so, often, I find it difficult to keep it all in perspective and to focus on the good things  
But I never indulge in feelings on how unfair/cruel life is.
What can I say?
It is what it is and I try to go along with all the   we're going through but, oh boy, sometimes it's way too difficult.

I think I didn't prepare for it to take that long to work.
Or for it not work at all!
I thought, oh, IUI will work and some time later I thought now we're having IVF it will work.
It hasn't and new problems, diagnoses came a long and I'm still looking into more tests, more money, more headaches.
I'm overwhelmed and tbh, it's too late to stop and give up.
So I carry on.

I'm not proud but the truth is IF is taking over my life.
We're at the point of deciding where to live and one of our big concerns is "will we be able to get tx here?"

Sorry about the long post.

Best wishes for all


----------



## Kitten 80

I have come to far to give up now as well mousky  , I only talk to FF about my problem as your the best people to listern


----------



## Frindabelle

I agree with you kitten the woman is still a [email protected]  

Grrr...to your friend   I hate that, people just think it's ok to ask about it, I don't ask people naturally TTC hows the sh&gging going!  

big   to you and mousky

It does kinda take over your life a bit, I'm just waiting for one appointment to the next
xx


----------



## kitten77

ditto - agree it does take over your life! and just feel like all you do is wait wait wait.


----------



## Mrs Rock

God yes, the waiting................it should be banned on health grounds  

As for Asda lady, what on earth does she mean, "IVF causes the death of fertilised eggs, because only a few survive"?  If they don't survive, they don't survive because they aren't of sufficient quality, IVF doesn't do anything to kill them.......?  Huh?

And also - this life begins at fertilisation thing....yes I can understand that view in one way, as what you have unquestionably got at that point is an embryonic human being.  But does Asda cretin understand that that embryo can't turn into an actual human being ie a baby without implantation occuring?  Personally I think conception occurs at implantation, the rest is essential but preliminary stages.

I hope this doesn't offend anyone - I know it's a delicate subject.  I just don't see why Asda-ites who don't fully understand the process of reproduction should feel qualified to rubbish IVF.  GRRRRRRRR!


----------



## guider

i know this will probably not sound right, but i will see how i go, i will use the excuse of being full of cold and having a muzzy head, so not much makes sense to me at the moment!

in relation to the ASDA comment
if IVF causes loads of eggs to become fertilised which then 'don't work'
what about all those eggs that they say in the normal course of the lives of people without IF issues get fertilised, but don't implant (or implant properly) so are just ...... (want to say released, but that doesn't sound right,) during the next period
they say that it is a very regular thing for people to become pregnant (or almost pregnant) but it is for such a short time that either the period come as normal, or might just be a little bit late and they don't even think about it

sorry think i may be rambling, probably due for another nap!!!


----------



## Fraggles

Hi

My AF is here and I am in a bad mood, anyone able to send me details of anyone I can go and let go of my bad mood on as there seems to be lots of stupid people around. My best friend gave me the words of wisdom I am sure you have all heard 'just let go of your stress and take it easier and it'll happen' If I use the initials JFO - the first word being just, the second work could be a crude term for making love and the third word is 3 letters I am sure you can work out what I thought.

Kitten80/Mousky lots of hugs to you both.

F x


----------



## helen6887

Oh ladies, 

TG I've found you! I was just having a little scan down the index and found this wonderful thread. It's fantastic! I've lost count of the number of times people have made thoughtless comments re my infertility. So glad there's a thread to share them.

My best one's include: my mother-in-law placing her hand across my stomach, every time we visited for the first few years of my marriage. I had to admit in the end I was just getting FAT, not pregnant!  Oh and then there was the doctor who asked me with a very serious face 'was I making myself sexually available to my husband' when we first sought treatment.   And of course I've had all the usual comments such as 'just relax', 'go on holiday', 'why don't you adopt - cos I know someone who got pregnant as soon as she adopted' (that's my fav  ) and then I was once told by my neighbour's gardener to 'just pop down behind the shed and he'd make sure I'd get pregnant!! (that was a scarey one) . So all in all I've had my fair share of weird/insensitive comments. Looking forward to reading your stories, I'm so glad I'm not the only one.

Helen xxx


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

I replied to that ASDA thread and here is what I said.......
_
I am sorry to say that the comment from Maijury has caused a lot of offence, upset and distress to a great many women in my position.
How dare people impose their views on others? 
I need a baby more than anything in this world. Infertility has blighted my life and the lives of my wider family for 10 years.
Everything I have done, and everything my parents have done in this world has been about providing a secure nest for the next generation. I have worked so hard. But now my arms are empty - I have no baby to nurture. It breaks my heart every minute of every day, and it will never end until I have a baby. That may never happen - but I must try. It is like a basic instinct that I can't fulfill. Unless you walk 1 mile in my shoes you would never understand the pain.
I have to spend much of the money that I was supposed to be spending on my baby, their roof over their head and their education on the treatment that I need to have them at all.
I applaud ASDA for this assistance.
Many eggs are fertilised everyday and don't implant. Some implant into the bodies of people who don't want them. People who abuse and starve their children to death. 
My child will be one of the most wanted and cared for children in the world._

What d'ya think?


----------



## Mrs Rock

Fraggles
I vote that from henceforth the advice "Just relax and then it'll happen" shall be known as the JFO Advice.  

Funnily enough I had some JFO Advice myself today from a friend - was it the same one?!!  Actually no, it won't have been, as SO MANY people come out with that stupid crap   !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Mousky

HH - I'm wondering what will be the reaction on your reply  

Helen - I'm sorry but I had to laugh at your doctor what an  

Mousky xx


----------



## the_gruffalo

Hazel,

I don't often post in here but I think your reply on the ASDA site is spot on and made me feel really emotional.  You sum it up perfectly.

Gill xx


----------



## Branston Pickle

Go *Hazel * !!! I tried to put on a reply but Im not sure if it worked as I was trying to do it anonymously. They have "blog rules" which state that no comments should be derogatory blah blah blah so I put on my post that I found her comments insensitive and felt that they should be removed as I felt they were in breach of Asda's own rules! So I wonder if they will remove it. Im away to check.

Laughing at the "are you making yourself available comment"  Eh what do you think!!!  

Hope everyone is well xxx


----------



## Fraggles

HH

Because I during my menstrual cycle as well as the new abbreviation JFO, I am using my bad mood to add JFOD to those who really cause offence and the d stands for something that might happen so know one could ever cause offence again. My goodness I am not a happy soldier tonight because so many stupid people are around.

F x


----------



## poodlelover

HH

I think your reply is spot on. Well done for putting what we all feel so succinctly. Wonder if there's anyway we could all sue 

PL x


----------



## coweyes

Hi all

I think some people write things on purpose to get a response like the lady who wrote that on the asda wall.  Let have her opinion it makes no difference to me what so ever.  I have heard of these comments before but its not how i see it so let her get on with it, she obviously have very strong views.  But lets hope she remembers her comment when she or someone she loves is faces with the issues we are all faced with, she may well change her opinion!!!


----------



## Kitten 80

Well done HH well said honey  

Coweyes your absolutely rite   bet she would change then


----------



## Branston Pickle

Hi ladies

Only a few people know DH and I are having treatment. A friend said to me the other day "you are going to tell people your child was conceived through IVF arent you?" Am i wrong to want to throttle her?  What difference should it make!

Cant see either of the posts we put onto the Asda website, wondering if they are moderated and it takes a few days for them to appear.

  to everyone xx


----------



## Kitten 80

It dosen't matter at all LTR   but have thought what I will do


----------



## Mrs Rock

I think I would most likely tell my child if I am lucky enough to have one, as IVF is still only 30 years old and who knows whether the knowledge might become relevant in the future, but mostly to tell them how much we wanted and waited and tried and hoped for them and how happy we were to be given such a gift


----------



## Mrs Rock

I'd like a small moan......maybe this has been said before as only just seen it but seriously, what were they playing at with the low sperm count storyline in "Gavin and Stacey"??  All sorted with a miracle BFP in the space of 2 episodes??  And have the writers never heard of ICSI or what, it went straight from diagnosis to discussion of adoption or sperm donor.  I know it's a comedy and I'm trying not to take it too seriously but you'd think the writers could've been better informed.  And less trite.

I'm glad I wasn't watching that with my DH - it would've upset him.  It's brought me down slightly.  Shame cos I loved the rest of it, talk about ending on a low point.


----------



## Mousky

LTR - what did she mean? what's the matter with IVF babies? I agree with Mrs Rock. WHEN it works for us I'll have no problem with telling the child how much we fought for her/him.  I also don't plan to go in details with everyone else but I don't think I'll have issues with telling other people we had tx. It might give hope to someone going through the same   we're going through. That said, I don't want to tell them while I'm at it


----------



## Kitten 80

Oh Glad my DH didn't see that he has low count 2% normality but 85% mobility take after him with his foot ball   run all over the place and never score   bless him.


----------



## Mousky

Kitten - I had to laugh (which is a wonderful thing at this point)    My DH has only 12 % of motility and he doesn't really like football so maybe that's it


----------



## Kitten 80

Get him on the treadmill


----------



## helen6887

Hi Ladies,

LTR - i've been asked similar questions about telling people my child was an IVF child (if I should be lucky enough to ever have one that is!). I tell them the child will be covered in head to foot with 'IVF miracle' slogans, just so no one thinks I was a half-witted, rabbit-breeding moron, that just whooped my kids out without a second thought about how hard it is for millions of other women!!!! 

Kitten - alas I too love Gavin and Stacey, but have not watched this series, knowing that the way they would approach the issue of infertility would be all sugar-coated, and yes solved within two episodes. It's not reality, is it!

Take care ladies.

Helen xxx


----------



## Branston Pickle

*Helen, Mousky, Mrs Rock, Kitten* She wasnt even talking about telling the child....she was talking about telling the wider world....getting out the loud hailer "we cant have kids on our own so we had to have IVF to get this one"   At the end of the day, when we are blessed to have a child why should anyone care where it came from.... i dont ask them how many times they had  before conceiving, they dont go about shouting "we had sex twice and got ourselves a baby!" so why say this is the fruit of my 2nd attempt at IVF on a baby balloon attached to my bugaboo pram! And it wont be an alien because it wasnt conceived in the "traditional" way....we just needed a little help . Hacked off that it should make a difference, people are so insensitive and insightless!

As for Gavin and Stacey.... I didnt watch it and i know its a comedy and they dont want to be too serious, but I think if your going to address a topic which is so emotive to so many people it should be researched properly and handled with sensitivity. Big thumbs down to the producers 

Take care xxx


----------



## joeyrella

the G&S episode made me so mad.  so many tv programmes seem to involve an infertility or low sperm count story line and it always works out okay, by the end of the series they always end up with a baby.  i think a lot of the stupid comments we get from people who are lucky enough to be ignorant of infertility issues come from watching programmes like G&S, friends and SATC where the infertile couple relax and end up with a baby.
i know they're supposed to be light hearted and happy but wouldn't it be refreshing if, for once, it was like reality and the miracle baby didn't turn up within weeks, or they were brave enough to show a story line in which the couple were still infertile but managed to be happy anyway.


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Well, my poor child won't just have to have the letters IVF tattooed to the forehead - they will also have to have DSC - donor sperm conceived.

It isn't anyone else's business. But of course we will do what is in the child's best interests to know how they were conceived. I hope they will understand that we wanted them so much that we were prepared to go through a lot to have them.
I am sure during teenage tantrums I will get 'well I wish you hadn't bothered' and 'i hate you' - but which teenager did not say something like that at one point or another? Our child might have a few more buttons to press like 'you're not my dad anyway'. (this is one of my DH's biggest fears)

But it isn't anyone else's business, like I said. The child is loved. That is all that matters. I am sure people don't tell their child what position or how many times lead to the conception.

Although you will get some kids who listen to their parents saying that they only had to look at each other and she got pregnant, for the kid to be scared to look at the opposite sex in the playground for fear of getting pregnant!!!


----------



## Fraggles

Evening All

Had a JFO comment today (that's just **** off comment). Went for dinner with friends and got another 'just relax stop stressing and you will get pregnant'. Afraid I gave her a verbal battering and my best friend who said the same thing last week was sitting next to me at the time. Said it's wonderful how all these people who have never had fertility issues are so great at giving me this wonderful advice particularly as they are experts on the topic because they just happen to know someone else who was on the fertility trail and got pregnant. Also advised them it was one of the worse things they can possibly say to anyone having fertility treatment.

Also asked what thing they thought I should stop stressing about - me working two jobs whilst studying, me trying to self-fund my treatment, trying to complete my degree whilst having treatment. Don't think that they'll make that mistake again!! 

F x


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Just tell 'em to FO!


----------



## Branston Pickle

Hopeful Hazel said:


> Although you will get some kids who listen to their parents saying that they only had to look at each other and she got pregnant, for the kid to be scared to look at the opposite sex in the playground for fear of getting pregnant!!!


*Hazel*       must remember this for the future!!!

*Fraggles* I think sometimes they just need to hear it straight.....they are ignorant, they just dont know it....and prob just think they are helping, although, obviously we know they arent!!! At least you can vent your frustration on here!

This is my new favourite thread. Im loving getting it off my chest


----------



## Fraggles

Oh yes, both my friends were talking about how as soon as they wanted to have children and had made up their mind they got pregnant first time. How b****y wonderful for you both. Me sarcastic ..... NEVER.

F x


----------



## Branston Pickle

Could they be more insensitive!!!!! It just gets better and better


----------



## aaa is a MUMMY

Fraggles well done hun you tell them, I don't know how many times I heard that when I went back to work last week.  

LTR hope your ok?  We were cycle buddies weren't we??


----------



## Mousky

Fraggles - well done! enough is enough    

AAA - how are you?

HH - if only I'd be so lucky with a baby I'd also be expecting the "you shouldn't have tried so hard" comment sooner or later   I can imagine your DH's concern though    

 to everyone else.


----------



## Fraggles

AAA Lots of hugs coming your way. Was so sorry to see your news!!!

Perhaps if we all let go of some of our frustrations by battering the **** out of those stupid people who say stupid things, it may at least make us all feel a bit better even if we are stressed!!!

F x


----------



## rainbowfish

i think this thread is great! After our first bfn i confided in one of my 'closest' friends about our tx and expected a little empathy. Her reply was that she knew just how i felt as it took her, wait for it, 3 months! to fall for their first. WTF!!!!  enough said she is now at arms length!!!!!


----------



## helen6887

Oh Rainbowfish, you did make me laugh. Fancy having a friend who understands your infertility cos it took her 3 months to conceive. Haha. You have to laugh at the ignorance of some people eh? I've blown you a bubble cos girl with friends like that, you need all the blessed bubbles you can get.  

Helen xxx


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

My friend, (I love her to bits) said to me when she announced her pregnancy, that it ''took them 10 months and she never thought it was going to happen''.
I was crying by this point as it was only 2 -3 months since I found out both my tubes were blocked and my husband was azoospermic, and refusing a donor. I have to say that I just said ''try 6 years of it''

If I had got pregnant at 10 months - I would have just thought great - I fall into the normal bracket of 1 year TTC.

9 periods to experience the feeling of - ohh I'm not pregnant again, is a bit different to 72 periods! it kind of becomes harrowing after the first 18-24.

I also was told yesterday by my lovely colleague that ''I shouldn't be trying with my frosties now because I would have a Christmas baby and that isn't fair on them, and did I mind whether I had a Christmas baby? She has friends that have stopped TTC for the next 3 months because they want a spring, summer or autumn baby''.
WTF - I told her that when you get to my stage, you don't care when it is born as long as it is and it is healthy. If you have the luxury to pick and choose a month, then go ahead, but others of us don't have any time to waste.

Some of these people really are stupid


----------



## Fraggles

HH

Can I laugh with incredulity (is there such a word) - stopping for three months because they are choosing a seasonal baby - just as you say WTF? I am sure she means one odd bod couple may have decided to have stopped trying but that other sane individuals like us think she and them have totally lost the plot. I don't get the problem with it been unfair on the baby - why is that?

Well tell her that you friend wants a Christmas baby because she thinks the names Santa and Claus are great for a baby.
F x


----------



## aaa is a MUMMY

Thanks Mousky and Fraggles its been really hard and a lot of   still haven't managed a day without crying but I am starting to feel a bit better in myself just taking 1 day at a day at the moment.   to you both xx

Hopeful Hazel and Rainbow Fish       there really are some stupid people in this world


----------



## coweyes

Hi all

I think its fair to say that any normal person would think it was bxxxdy ridicules not to want a baby due to what season it is!!  But to be fair to them thats their choice but its not right that they impose that on everyone!! Some people are soooooooo stupid!!!  I remember my friend saying that they would not be trying for another at the moment because she was going to a concert (can not remember who it was now), but how she had always wanted to see them play and didn't want to be pg!  I know she did not say anything wrong but i have never forgotten her comment.  I remember thinking omg, its just taken as a very day decision when to have a baby, you live in a completely different universe than me!!  Tbh it really spud my head out!!!!


Always an auntie You are either on the Jan/feb or the feb/march thread??  I am sorry you have been feeling down its got to be said that its one of the toughest things i have been through!  I got a bfn just under 2 weeks ago and i swing from feeling kind of ok to feeling things are hopeless and really struggling not to cry. I hope you are looking after yourself and that you and your dh are taking care of each other. Sending  you love and strength xxxxxx

Does anyone else find family get to gethers really difficult?  2 of my 3 brothers have very young children and i end up feeling like a bit of an outsider, not that anyone says or does anything wrong.  But my family are all quite loud and rorcus and i am just not in the same mind set.  I also feel bad cos my mum gets upset as she does not see much of any of her grandchildren, Only one lives in England, but she does not see that much of him.  I felt really bad yesterday as there was clearly an atmosphere between my mum and my brother and sister in law.  I left early and cried all the way home, all i could thing is my poor mum not seeing much of her grandchildren, she has been sooooooooo great to me and my dh and feels so bad about our struggles.  I felt so guilty that we could not make her happy and give her a grandchild .


----------



## Branston Pickle

*AAA* Hi, yep your right I was one of the Blossom Bunch. BFN for me  difficult being on there at times as there are so many BFP's. Not that Im not happy for people, just that it makes me feel worse that Im not one of them  Hope your doing a bit better . Im liking this thread as its good to get it all out when people are annoying you and saying idiotic things, great way to vent your frustration which I dont think can be done as easily on cycling threads.

*Rainbowfish* 3months, 3 months flamin eck! That must have been tough for her  Hope you gave her a pat on the back (before the slap to the coupon) and told her that was a wee shame!  

*HH* Its funny I have heard a lot of people "arranging" conception around festivals. A group of us go to T in the Park, and one said to me she was going to start trying asap so she could have the baby and still be able to go  If only it were that easy for all of us. I also find the  the hardest part of the month as it is a reminder of another month gone by with nothing happening  Its like a big neon sign every month reminding you that your a failure....... grrrrr  

*Fraggles* I heard people say that they dont want them around Xmas as they cant get out with the pram cos its too cold and wet......... Heaven Forbid!!!  at Santa and Claus as names 

*Coweyes* Family do's are hard. There are lots of us around the same age and out of about 25 cousins, only my sister and I arent parents. Even the younger cousins are all at it now...I hate it....it just feel like there is more pressure on us. I also agree with you about your mum. But you are doing it for you, not your mum, it is a bonus that it will let her properly fulfil the granny role. My mum isnt a granny at all yet. No sign of anything happening with us and my sister is 38, divorced, single and not actively looking for a partner, so I dont see her having children soon. And I know she is starting to think she is getting to old and may not end up having any. I dont really feel like an "outsider" when it comes to family....but I really feel it with my friends. We dont get asked to go out as much and those with kids "nearly all of them" have nights in the house with the other parents and dont invite us cos we arent "in the gang". Sad really 

     to everyone


----------



## Fraggles

HI 

I think there are some other wonderful names for children born at Christmas - can't figure why everyone wouldn't want it. E.g As well as Santa, Claus, there's baubles, tinsel, lights, snow (shall we guess which celeb will be the first to call their child snow because I just so know it will happen').   

I was nosing around on ******** this morning and saw an ex who I am not in contact with smiling out with a bonnie baby on his knee. Happy for him but did feel like it was a little jab from the universe going ha where's your child then. So know it's not but don't want to be seeing exes with babies. Is it unreasonable to start a campaign from banning photos on ******** of proud parents and their little one(s) do you think? We can add to that anyone announcing their pregnancy or birth of a child.  

R x


----------



## coweyes

LTR Thanks for your kind words.  Its odd my monthly af never really bothers me, we were told we had fertility issues and would need icsi i then had an ectopic and lost a tube.  I kind of waved good bye to my natural fertility when that happened, and in an odd way think it helps me cope with my monthly af. xxxxxxxx

Fraggles I would just settle for a bit of understanding from others on **. xxxxxxxxx


----------



## Mrs Rock

Fraggles, on ******** I would like to ban those people who don't have a profile pic of themselves, they just put one of their baby/child there instead.  AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH that annoys me so much!  

"Oh, so don't you have an identity yourself any more then?  I knew there was a reason I'm not friends with you any more - I don't know who you are any more!!!!!"


----------



## aaa is a MUMMY

hi coweyes yeah I was an  ex blossom bunch can't face posting on there anymore, your words have truely hit home about your mum. I am one of 4 and the other 3 have 6 children between them really hard at times but I am really close to my mum and dad and would have loved nothing more than for this cycle to work out as baby would have been due around my mums 60th birthday!! 

 to everyone really tired today AF is kicking butt in the pain stacks and wiping me out but not doing a whole lot else!!


----------



## butsy

Hi all,

just reading the last few pages - people aren't getting any more sensitive are they?  My response to the JFO comments about relaxing is 'thats just b******s'.  seems to shut most people up instantly.  funny that?

big hugs to everyone who's had bad news this month  .  Am starting all over again in a couple of months and trying to prepare myself.


----------



## coweyes

Butsy

Sorry to hear that you have had bad news this month, so have i and its tough isn't it! I hope your able to prepare yourself for your next cycle and move forward. xxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Frindabelle

Hey Ladies,
How are we all doing? I'm loving the 'JFO'     so true!!
massive   to you all. 
feeling pretty sh*tty today, I've decided that I hate ******** and i'm sure it's just there to rub my infertility in my face     JFO!!!

It actually hurts today  

Still lots of love to you all.

Always an Auntie, I'm ex snowbabes and blossom bunch, i haven't been over there since my BFN 
xxxx


----------



## Mares

Just want to say that I've been introduced to this thread recently and I'm liking it !  Soo many annoying people out there.  I've not been on FF for 6 months or so, but as I'm not coping so well with my relationships at the moment (apart from DH, hes lovely) - then thought I would join in again.  I know it will help me.

Speak soon friends xx


----------



## Mousky

Ladies, I decided against ** as the happy families were not making me feel so good   I know it feels personal but it's probably an OK thing to do, posting your baby pictures so your friends/family members can keep up   I did check it today after ages    and I hated it     Obviously, I'm the one with the problem so no more ** for me   

Massive    and   to all of you.


----------



## rainbowfish

AAA families are tricky I'm one of four and the others all have two each, niece and nephew have two each, so I'm a great aunt which makes me feel just bl**dy brill! try to keep your chin up, sometimes it's tough. Big hugs


----------



## aaa is a MUMMY

hopeful hazel have you seen your response has been posted on the Asda thing well done you xx


----------



## helen6887

Hi Ladies,

How are you tonight? I've had a mixed day today . Good news I passed my certTESOL course today, so now that's finished I'm all set to apply for work in local FE college. Bad news - had a really stupid comment from no other than my own DH!!! I've got my FET consultant meeting on Thursday and DH has agreed to host a meeting at work, so won't be coming with me. If that isn't bad enough, he excused it by saying 'well, you know what to expect, you don't really need me there this time do you?'  OMG I expect stupid comments like that from my friends BUT from my own HUBBY!!!! Caused an almighty row, I can tell you.

Helen xxx

P.S. Mrs Rock I quite agree with you about the kiddie photo thing; I've had to quit the Hammersmith thread cause everyone has a baby signature pic. should be pleased cause it must mean the clinic has a high success rate - but still upsets me, when all I have to show for mine is the DOG!! By the way - a rock signature is far more interesting, you must have travelled to some exciting places to get a photo like that. Well done.


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Hopefully that person on ASDA website thing is now feeling   But I doubt it.

Had a great one today, back to the theme of 'I know how you feel'.

I was in the opticians helping to order my elderly father a new pair of glasses. Bless him!
The lady asked me if I live near my Dad, and I said no not really. She then asked me if I have children. I said no. She asked me if I wanted any. I said yes - then stupidly (I never learn) I told her I was doing IVF.
She then told me she knew exactly how I felt, because it took her 5 months to conceive her first. 

Having said that she was quite sweet and told me about a really traumatic miscarriage she had   and said she would pray for me, and wanted to know how I get on with the FET. Some of the conversation was quite uplifting and she did make me feel that women, whether we have children or infertility problems are bound by a very deep connection. She did actually seem to have a little insight as she had a friend who would cry when holding family babies and had been trying for 14 years. etc

Still doesn't stop them saying a few   things though - does it?


----------



## Spanna2010

Hi

I'm new to this thread.... but it's funnily therapeutic to read about other people's rants  

In the last month, I had a failed 1st go with ICSI, and then a week later ended up in A&E and admitted to hospital for a few days - looks like endometriosis back and possibly has caused problems inside bladder/bowel   Anyway, I bumped into our department secretary yesterday who I had told a while ago that I had endometriosis and the impact that has on fertility (but didn't tell her anything about going for IVF) as she was going through gynae problems at the time.  So yesterday she tried to ask me in a round about way how things were going "health-wise", so I just said the endo was causing problems again (as she knew I had just been in hospital).. then she started to go off on one about how I would make a really good mum! To quote "Oh, everything will sort itself out.... you would make a really good mum!"     Luckily for her, I was having an OK day, so just walked off... but honestly, please engage brain before opening mouth!!!  
Was also told by MIL after the failed ICSI "well, you didn't expect it to work first time did you?"

   to you all

xXx


----------



## H&amp;P

Not posted for a while but do still read everyday.

For those of you finding others pictures on the forum hard you can choose not to see them by following the instructions below.

Click Profile (at the top of the page) from the main menu or clicking your own username
Click Look and Layout Preferences. 
Click to remove the tick from the check boxes for Don't show other users' avatars and Don't show other users' signatures. 

 to all.


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## Kitten 80

Here you go lady's somthing funny for a change

A nun gets into a cab and the driver keeps staring at her through the rear view mirror. "You know, Sister," the cab driver says, "I hope you aren't too offended, but I've always had this fantasy of getting a blowjob from a nun." 

The nun thinks for a moment and says, "I'm not too offended. I just have two requirements. One, that you be single, and two, that you be Catholic."

"Oh yes, Sister, I am single and Catholic," the cab drive replies, so they pull into an alley and the nun proceeds to satisfy the cab driver orally. After they're done, the cab driver begins laughing. 

"What's so funny?" the nun asks. "Ha ha!" the cab driver annnounces, "I fooled you sister. The truth is I'm really married and I'm Jewish!"

"That's okay," the nun replies, "My name is Bob and I'm on my way to a fancy dress party."


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Some more names for Christmas babies - hope not to offend anyone who has these names as they are mostly quite ordinary names - Holly, Ivy, Rudolf, Noel, Nicholas, Mary, Joseph, Jesus, Gabrielle, Robin, Carol, Belle, Angel.

This list can go on!


----------



## Kitten 80

If all go's to plan and I do get my BFP this time knowing me bubba will be over due and pop out easter so what do I call mine Bunny


----------



## Fraggles

Hopeful Hazel thanks for being so helpful as it has given me more ideas for Xmas babies. Had scan this morning and consultant said three good size follies so I could have triplets. LOL: I had alreadz thought of Santa and Claus but think I will add Rein 9short for Reindeer into the mix0. Due date for me if I get bfp will be Xmas Day. Tzping on czech kezboard hence random tzping not because I am drunk.

F x


----------



## daisy22

Hi girls

Hope you dont mind me gatecrashing but have been reading with shock, anger and occasionally a little amusment!!

Just thought I'd tell you all about my friend. She is 11 weeks pg after taking clomid and knows all about my tx!! She has started sending me texts from the 'bump'. for example 'hi aunty daisy, hope your having a good day- I'm being good and not making mummy poorly today!!' 

I love my friend dearly and am delighted for her but you would think someone who has experienced the pain of IF would have a bit more tact- or am I being oversensitive!!! 

I dont mind hearing about the bump but there are better ways surelY??

I want to tell her stop but I'm afraid of upsetting her, she was very good to me when I was poorly!!


----------



## shortie66

Daisy an u not tell her u are having a bad time at the mo and ur emotions are all over the place, and while you love to hear her talk you can always tell her to shut up but u cant tell her to shut up in a txt?


----------



## Kitten 80

Daisy your friend should have more compashion for you   she should no better.


----------



## coweyes

Daisy think she may just need a polite reminder that a little upsetting for you, i am sure she has just got a little carried away with herself.


----------



## H&amp;P

Daisy - OMG how thoughtless of your friend, you would have thought after going through clomid to get her baby she would have more empathy for what you are going through. I am afraid I would be either emailing her the "empty arms" link or texting back to Bump that while you are pleased for them both you are at a point where constant baby updates are distressing and could you only have updates when you see her in person (then you can choose not to see her if you are feeling low). Sorry if that sounds harsh but my tolerance levels of other peoples (especially people who know the pain of IF) lack of tact is at an all time low.


----------



## poodlelover

Daisy

I have to agree that your friend's behaviour is thoughtless and insensitive, even selfish. She must have a very short memory. Think I would have to say that you are finding the texts upsetting as things are a bit difficult at the moment and you would appreciate a bit of consideration. If she chooses to take the hump that's up to her. I am past worrying whether I offend people by preserving my own sanity whatever that takes. Some people need a reminder to get out from up their own ar**s 

PL x


----------



## guider

daisy - i think your friend is being insensitive, like the others have said she has been there and experienced it and you would think might know better.
i know that i am one of the very lucky ones who has made it to the next stage and am currently pregnant myself, but i am always conscious of any people that i have met through this IF journey not to keep pushing it in their faces, but in the same way it is getting that balance so that they don't feel they are being left out of the loop.
i hope that any friends i have made know that i am still around to support them and am still here for all the tears and smiles that we all have to experience through out this journey.

as for sending texts from my bump!!!
having taken soo long to get to this stage, treatments and a lot of money etc, etc, etc
i am still so petrified that something will go wrong, i would feel like i was temping fate to do soemthing like that


----------



## Mrs Rock

Daisy I am disgusted at your friend's insensitivity.  That is a JFO text if ever I saw one.  I actually cannot believe that from someone who knows about your tx.  God that makes me so mad!  I would definitely say something to her - nicely if you can manage it as I assume you don't want to lose her as a friend.  Not sure how well I would handle that but most people are more tolerant than me, or it seems that way.    to you.


Happy Easter everyone!  I have only just worked out why people are thinking up Christmas baby names! Fingers crossed anyway.  I start my down reg in 3 weeks so would definitely enjoy being pg at Christmas...what a lovely thought  , especially after the one we had last year, BFN on 19 December


----------



## Fraggles

Hi Daisy

I am sure your friend isn't being intentionally cruel but more thoughtless about how much hurt it is causing. I wonder if perhaps she thinks she might be giving hope to you that she has fallen pregnant and is going OTT to include you in every step of the way as she doesn't want to alienate you and make you feel like you have the lurgy (sp?) because she fell pregnant first. I have heard stories of others whose friends who have had fertility treatment and gotten pregnant first just not talking about it at all with other friends who have been having fertility treatment and peeing them off too. I think this journey is such a tough one that everyone reacts different.

I think Shortie talks sense - I'd say to your friend that you are having a difficult time emotionally at the moment and love catching up on her news but can she save it for when you see each other face to face (then like Driver says you can avoid her when you feel low) as you are feeling really sensitive and texts from the bump just highlight the fact that you still haven't a little one yet. 

Good luck and lots of hugs

F x


----------



## daisy22

Thank you so much  

Your all fab!! I'm glad you dont think I'm being oversensitive!

I think I may send her a little card saying something like...

I am delighted for you ect ect BUT I am struggling a bit with the texts from the bump. And like you guys say perhaps I can have updates when I see her rather than every day!!


----------



## Fraggles

Daisy

What a great idea, if you do a congratulations card I think that is a really kind slap on the back saying well done mate (even if you actually mean "bump step away from the mobile and stop sending me texts) and then putting your note inside.

Well thought out!

xxx


----------



## coweyes

Daisy

I meant to say the other day but forgot, my friend did the same.  My friend who previously had a miscarrage and felt sad cos she had been trying for a little while to get pg.  Any how i texted her and  said "lets meet and talk about things as i am struggling with seeing so many pg people" or something like that.  Anyhow she texted back and said "o you wont want to meet up with then cos i am pg" joking around.  Anyhow at the end of the text and every text since she has written love Mxx, Txxx and bump!  .  I felt really cheesed off with her about it.  She was also really insensitive on ******** always talking about being pg, etc etc.  Anyhow i distanced myself from her, as i did try and tell her but she did not really get it.  Unfortunately she had a still birth  .  She is now pg again but i have noticed she is a lot more discreet about it.  xxx


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

It is very true that when you do get that elusive BFP you want to enjoy it as much as possible. I added ''Beanie'' to my dad's birthday card as I was so excited and wanted him to feel part of finally being my baby's grandad - might actually be the only grand child he has  
I don't think I ever sent a text to anyone from Beanie though, even though I am the only one out of any of my friends that is not a parent.
I suppose it is their way of bonding with the baby and thinking of them as a person.
I can't remember any of my friends doing that to me - thank good ness.

It also strikes me, after what has happened to me that they do not want to speak too soon.      11 weeks is actually still very early days. Next time, if I can possibly be lucky enough to get pregnant again, I am hardly going to mention my baby until I am 28 weeks, when it stands a reasonable chance if born.


----------



## coweyes

I think some people are just lucky to get pg and be naive of the possibility that things don't always go to plan and are innocent of all the things that go wrong.  (if that makes seance)! my sister in law has a child and is pg again, she told me people at 8 weeks gone.  But probably because she has had not problems getting pg or keeping it! Me as an example would be a lot more worried about telling anyone as i have IF issues had a miscarriage and an ectopic pg! Just wish i lived in the world of the innocent some days  , but don't we all.xxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Fraggles

Can I laugh I emailed my friend last night because I was upset to say I have a bfn, her response by text message was why has AF come, by the way things busy with me and my water filter has got cloudy water coming from it so I have to sort it. Not sure whether to laugh at the irrelevancy or just BTF out of her.

What do you think?

F x


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## Mrs Rock

I'd be tempted by BTF myself

Very sorry about your BFN


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## charlie_44

Fraggles


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## Mousky

Oh dear, Fraggles


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## Izzybear

Fraggles said:


> Not sure whether to laugh at the irrelevancy or just BTF out of her.
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> F x


Fraggles

Sorry to see your BFN but I would definately want to BTF out of her - I think we could get a group together to give her a once over on your behalf


Izzy
x


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

We will send the PSP  round to give her a shake! 

Perhaps when she rings you for support on something really upsetting you should start going on about being too busy because you have to cut the lawn and put the rubbish out or something equally horrible and irrelevant.

I am so sorry Fraggles you deserve more support and love


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## tinydancer811

But surely a cloudy water filter is front page news  

I scoffed out loud when I read your post.

So so sorry to hear about your BFN.  They are just awful aren't they?  

 from all of us xxx


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## livity k

In fact water filters are the great election issue- v v important........


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## vickym1984

Fraggles


----------



## coweyes

omg!!! got nothing to say really am speechless!!, sorry about your bfn.


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## coweyes

I have been confining in a work colleague, she is a older lady who has several kids.  Anyway i have decided that its not a good thing to do!  She has made some really silly comments.  Here are two that really hurt.  If your treatment does not work after your second time is there much point continuing?  implying that it will not work if it has not already  .  Then the other day, Why waist all your money on treatment when you could just adopt!!!! wtf  .  The worst thing is i know she means well, but obviously has NO IDEA about the emotional impact of it all.  People that you think you know and should understand can sadly surprise you and let you down  .  O and the other thing is, nearly forgot.  I was telling her how emotionally painful it all is and about all the drugs, and how my dh said he would do it if he could.  She said my dh felt exactly the same when i was in labor, as i was in such pain!!!!!omg


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## Mousky

Coweyes -    don't fall for this "if it hasn't worked twice what's the point?" there are so many ladies, couples that had to go through a lot more until it worked   Have you already had your appointment to discuss FET?


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## Fraggles

Coweyes - is it ok if I BTF out of your colleague - what a truly stupid thing to say. I am sure it takes everybody in the world only two  times of passion without contraceptive to get pregnant and in reality two IF treatment is similar to that - it is a really logical conclusion of her to make ... not!

People just don't figure the emotional impact do they. I am researching infertility for my dissertation and one article by an infertility specialist Alice Domar suggests the emotional impact of infertility is similar to that of having cancer. So slap on the back all rounds for those of us doing this and I also ask that every one of your reading this makes sure that you are doing something nice or enjoyable this weekend because you deserve it.

F x


----------



## Kitten 80

Hi peeps                      fraggles hope your ok hon you will get  here and it is horrible when you have a bfn on last go of iui. Hon has anyone posted on ex iui part 9 thread today think i might of lost it being on this blooming phone.


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## aaa is a MUMMY

hi everyone  

Fraggles sorry to hear your news hun my thoughts are with you xxx

There is a poster in the waiting area at the hospital that says there is only 1 think more painful than childbirth and that is not being able to have a child!!! Hubby wants to steal the poster every time and show it to my SIL who knows nothing but moan everything related to her children aaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhhhh how insensitive can some people be. Least we all have each other on here for support x


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## Mousky

Fraggles - how you're doing?   I must honestly say when this tx thing started almost 2 years ago I didn't think it was going to be that bad. But now it seems like I get one bad thing after another (including some none related to IF/ttc stuff) and I fear it's getting the best of me   I don't want to compare myself, my problems with those fighting cancer or any other tragedy but I can guarantee what we're going through is no picnic and it hurts so bad!    

AAA - steal the poster and shove it down your SILs throat


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## aaa is a MUMMY

it is so tempting Mousky she has just text me moaning about the effect having 20 mths old twins and an almost 4 yr old has had on her relationship with my bro!!!!!! She really needs to take a long hard look at what is causing my poor brother stress, the fact that she called herself an ambulance in March cause she was having back pain, didn't tell him she'd done it until they knocked at the door and then managed to get a 2 wk stay on the NHS while he was at home being, mummy, daddy and trying to work full time to pay the bills!!! Um now let me think I wander why he gets stressed oh yeah should also add that he was just getting over sickness bug, 4 yr old had chest infection and really bad cold and the twins had his stomach bug and big brothers cold!!!!


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## livity k

Your SIL sounds quite special!


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## aaa is a MUMMY

it her own odd way yeah lol, needless to say I didn't reply to the text will get it all tomorrow when we go to pick 4 yr old up as we are taking him out for the day


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## Mousky

livity k said:


> Your SIL sounds quite special!


Don't they all? 

I'm already on alert for when my brother brings home a serious gf as I want to be a nice one  

AAA - I hope she's a nice mother at least


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

Coweyes - tell your stupid colleague that the NICE guidelines on fertility treatment says that there is a point in trying at least 3 times. Success is consistent throughout these attempts. There is less evidence for the next 3 attempts because not many people go through it that many times, so there isn't the data, but it doesn't mean it won't work, That is medical evidence! Not hearsay, speculation or stupid unnecessary lay assessment of the situation.

I am definitely not even going to consider giving up until I have done 3 fresh cycles and 3 frozen, provided time works out and I have the money.

There is sufficient chances in that plan to make it not unreasonable.


----------



## coweyes

Mousky

Yer had my app.  Decided we are going to have a natural fet and have 2 blastos put back in.  Our consultant said that both our treatments have been textbook, and can not really give us a reason why it has not worked.  Just did not implant, and that he is still very hopeful that it will work for us.  I did not really expect to be given a deffernet reason why it did not work and we really like and trust our consultant so that's fine.  Time to forget and move on from our failed cycle!

We can not start our fet yet cos i have to have my prolactin checked out because it is too high again  .


----------



## aaa is a MUMMY

Mousky, watch them sis in laws to be honestly I thought this one was lovely the best he'd had but something went a bit   in her when she found out they were expecting twin boys she is desperate for a girl blah blah blah!! And she has been a living nightmare since to be honest with you she isn't that great a mum either, she was with the older one but really not with the twins it drives me mad hence why we take little man out so we don't have to stay there, can't get the twins in as well lol


----------



## JasmineX

Hi Ladies

I'm not sure if this is the right thread to jump on to, but I just had a BFN from my first IVF cycle, this week. I haven't told any of my friends, although they all know DH and I have been trying for 2 years.
I feel OK ( up and down) and have been getting loads of support from my FFs which has helped carry me through.

The problem is that tonight I am supposed to go for a dinner with a huge group of girlfriends who always insist on quizzing me about "how's it going on the baby making?". They know we are having problems because it hasn't happened yet, but I have managed to avoid giving details.

Just hearing the dreaded question feels like being stabbed with knives, and given what's happened this week, I am worried I will run out the restaurant crying!

Please can you tell me, what is the best answer to "Hows it going?" or even worse "Are you pregnant yet?" when you don't want to give any details, and don't want to go off on one?!!!

Thanks    

Jasmine
XXXXX


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## Fraggles

Jasmine

I would either text a close friend of the group and say that you want a night off from talking about baby making as a break so please can she say to the others you don't want to talk about it or if the topic comes up I would just say you appreciate they are interested but you would like a night off from talking about baby making and when there is anything to tell you will update them but please can you talk about something else.

F x


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## JasmineX

Hi Fraggle, 

Thanks for your reply  

Saying I want a night off from talking about it is a fantastic idea. 

Its the truth (although feeling like I would like a lifetime off from talking about it at the mo  ) and it doesn't sound defensive.

Phew, hopefully I will just be able to relax and enjoy the company  

Thanks again

Jasmine
XXXXX


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## Fraggles

Hi

i'd add that you want a night off from talking about and just want to be able to relax.

Enjoy your evening.

F x


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## Mousky

Coweyes - I was told the same thing (basically) but I wasn't satisfied with the "number's game" theory   I hope you can sort everything out so you can go again asap   

Jasmine - I'm sorry about your BFN   and I hope your friends will give you a break


----------



## JasmineX

Hi Ladies

I thought I would let you know what happened last night. 

Well, I didn't even get to the stage of having to say "I'm having a night off from talking about it...." because I was late getting to the restaurant and a bit stressed, so my friends asked me what I wanted to order and I immediately said " I need a champagne cocktail!" - so of course, the looks on their faces told me that they all took that to mean I clearly wasn't pregnant and they didn't ask me a thing after that!

Of course, after being tee-total for 2+ years of TTC, I was only able to drink a third of it, but I bl**dy enjoyed it, and managed to have a nice evening. There were a couple of scary moments when they started talking about babies, but no-one pushed me to say anything so it was OK....

Thanks for your support    

Jasmine
XXXXX


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Good tactic Jasmine - need to remember that one   I think I would be off my face after a sip though as I never drink anyway - it would probably cause more gossip that I had become an alcoholic or something after all my woes!!!


----------



## Mousky

HH -  

Jasmine - glad to hear you had a nice time


----------



## guider

Jasmine, i could really fancy something alcoholic about now, so you'll have to enjoy it for those of us who can't at the moment.
though i think if i had tried it i would get Hazels reaction, as i rarely ever drank when i was out as i was always driving.

i think i may have put my foot in it this week (not my fault) a customer bought in a lovely handmade cardigan for me (As i am such a wonderful person  ) i felt soo guilty as another member of staff stood looking on, she went on maternity leave the next day (friday) and is due on the 14th May, and she unfortunatley didn't get anything
at least i had sorted something for her leaving from us at work - that's what you get for having a male boss


----------



## coweyes

O i am soooooooo mad i am sorry but i have to write about it.

My so called friend has been joking around on ** that she will be very big by xmas, basically implying that she is pg.  She was clearly loving all the replies of "oooooooooo are you pg!!".  The upshot of it is that she is not just winding people up!! now am i being over the top but is this really rude of her! she knows my situation she also knows that i have been feeling down lately.  I got so fed up that i wrote on my status "i have just been reminded for why i hate **", she replied, "why whats the matter, hope your ok!!??wtf.  Please tell me am i being hyper sensitive?


----------



## helen6887

Poor Coweyes,

The short answer is yes, you are being a wee bit sensitive. BUT it's perfectly understandable. Your friend is only really being tactless if her message was directed specifically at you, but if its just put out there on **, I guess we could give her the benefit of the doubt.
It's hard not to get upset when other people, especially our friends, don't understand why we an't always share our joy at their pregnancy news. Somedays it's hard not to be bitter. You have to remind yourself that infertility is a really, really **** condition, and then remind yourself that you wouldn't wish this condition on your worst enemy, let alone your bestfriend. Put it in perspective, congratulate her, and perhaps add a gentle reminder that you would chop off your right arm to be in her situation. She really doesn't know how lucky she is!

Helenxxx


----------



## Mousky

Coweyes - I really am against **    I do take a look every now and then (even though I promised not to  ) and it only makes me feel bad. I'm sorry to hear you're so upset but I can totally relate to you   I know the "right thing to do" is to be happy about our pg friends but REALLY?? It's tough to see everybody getting pg except us   Sending you some


----------



## coweyes

Mousky and Helen

Thank you both for your kind replies, think i am just going to let it go as it really is not important! Trying to think about happier things, such as i have been given the ok to start my natural fet cycle,  yeep yeepie xxxxxx


----------



## helen6887

Coweyes, so glad you an hubby have decided to go ahead with the FET cycle.  
I'm on Day 2 of injecting Burserelin ready for my two embies    (if they both survive the thaw) at the end of May. Like you, we had to wait after our last IVF treatment failed, because we didn't think we were emmotionally strong enough to cope with another failure. I've been relying on the Hammersmith counsellor to pull me out of my depression, and now feel I'm strong enough.

Good luck. Sending you lots of     vibes! 

Helen xxx


----------



## NurseHelen

i guys, I'd like to say two things today and need to share them with someone:

1) I really, REALLY, want a cigarette so, so, so much, but whoever it was who wrote on here 'I want a baby more than a ***' then I applaud you because you are THE thing that has stopped me, and thank you.  I have shared your wisdom over the last few days, and that has helped me too.  But a great mantra  xx

2) A colleague ('friend') collared me in a room today and said that everyone at work thought 'I'd got fatter' and that 'I'd been looking quite happy', and so "they all thought I was pregnant", and they all knew I wanted to have a baby, so it must be true.  If they only f'ing knew the whole score and this time- my period has been so awful this month (unusually late and so heavy but even beta HCG neg).  

One of my previous "favs" is my aunt who I hadn't seen for 6 months, she came up and tapped my tummy (no hello or anything else first) and said 'no baby yet then', then she said hello.  Then I went off to the loo to compose myself and not cry because no-one has any sensistivity in my family.

Another time I'll tell you about my insensitive mother, mother-in-law, brother, etc...  I've had some right howlers I promise you, and when I swing back into my positive attitude then I'll share... xx


----------



## JasmineX

Nurse Helen    

I want to give your aunt a good slap, what an awful, awful thing to do. How can that possibly be acceptable behaviour?  Depending on your aunt's age, I would have done the same thing back at her, or asked her if she was menopausal yet. Equally "acceptable", no?!!! 


Coweyes   for you too. I don't think it was deliberate on your friends part, but it was stupid.

Its amazing how people "joke" about something that is so devastating.

Jasmine
X


----------



## the_gruffalo

Hi Everyone,

Coweyes, I now have to avoid ******** like the plague, especially since one of my former colleagues is posting daily updates- and scan pics- and is talking already about breastfeeding and which pram she has chosen.  She is 13 weeks pregnant  

This is the same colleague who said to my friend, who has been TTC for 3 years and who has had 2 miscarriages "I'm going to tell you something that's going to really upset you: I'm pregnant" and then proceeded to gush about how fabulous it was.  WTF!!  What she doesn't know yet is that my friend is finally 12 weeks pregnant but hasn't told anyone!

Great you have the go-ahead for your FET - good luck!  

Nurse Helen - Think you might have spotted my 'I want a baby more than a cigarette' mantra from the stop smoking thread?  It is so difficult isn't it, but you sound like you're doing well not to smoke.  There are so many times I wanted to have a sneaky one, but know it would undo all my good work.  Keep chanting girl  

Everyone else   

Gill xx


----------



## Fraggles

Hi

Are there any members of the peestick possee available tonight to do jobs in London and Kent please?

I was told I have low fertility today and amh of 2.41 (which on the scale my clinic uses is poor).

I was crying to a couple of friends about this and got that old chestnut - yeah you know the one - "a couple of my friends had lots of IF treatment which failed yet when she bought a couple of puppies she got pregnant". Bully for her I say. I did forget to ask if her friends were expecting puppies and how did their friends' OH's feel about that. Perhaps I should phone and ask. Yes I am sarcastic but please can people keep their bl**dy stupid comments in their mouths.

 

F x


----------



## vickym1984

Fraggles   some people just don't think.

Found out today that my mums been telling at least 1 person who is just a woman who lives near her, who "knew" me when I was younger that we are going through IVF. Luckily I am not too particularly bothered, but my mum isn't to know that. Didn't think she would be off tellign random people


----------



## JasmineX

Fraggles  

I have to say that comment was so outrageous it made me laugh out loud. Do these people have brains? Do they use them, ever?    

I think not.



Jasmine
XXX


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

The PSP will be right there, Fraggles.


----------



## Mousky

Is this the coffee filter problem friend?


----------



## Fraggles

Mousky yes!!! how did you guess.


----------



## Mousky

You couldn't be so lucky to have more than one   friend, could you?    But I can imagine she was trying to help


----------



## Fraggles

I have just told her on the phone she was lucky I didn't smack her one when she came out with the puppy comment and she can keep comments like that to herself in future. We are still talking.

F x


----------



## Mousky

I think it's wonderful you can be so clear about how you felt


----------



## Fraggles

She is South African and I think it is a SA trait that they are very direct and just come out which is a trait I usually like so gave it right back.


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

I have got a really goodun for you. Please make me laugh about it otherwise the PSP might have to come and hold me back!

After my gutting BFN on Tuesday I am feeling vulnerable, scared and tearful. I think that is coming off  the hormones. My lovely colleague decided to say something very stupid  today and rub it in even more and suggested that I should get a  surrogate. WTF? This is the typical stupid comment that comes from  someone who knows nothing about fertility or fertility treatment or me  at all.
  I tried to let it wash over, but it has really bugged me. She is meant  to be an intelligent other pharmacist colleague, but really? A surrogate  is an appropriate treatment strategy for someone who has had a  hysterectomy or has severe health problems and cannot carry, or in the  case of a same sex male partnership, where there is no womb. Not for me  who just has blocked tubes and a couple of bad luck episodes.  Arrragghhhh! It makes me so angry. Perhaps I should not tell them  anything, because they don't have a clue and make it worse.

I am sick of these stupid people - why don't they go and read up about it before saying stupid things?

I know I have always said I would not wish infertility on my worst enemy - but sometimes I wish people could step into my shoes and my feelings for a few weeks and just feel the despair for a short while.


----------



## Irish Dee

Hazel,

I've had the same comment from a really good friend.  I tried to explain that a surrogate would have EXACTLY the same chances as me of getting pregnant using IVF, but she said what if they had children before??  

I also explained that there are lots of women who have had one baby who cannot get pregnant again using IVF, but I think that those who live life in the bright lights of 'No infertility here land' see an article in a womens magazine about surrogacy and think that these suroangels have magic wombs that produce children at the drop of a hat.

In a way, all we can do is laugh about it, all the well intentioned comments and all they do is make themselves look more stupid.

Big hugs and hope you are slowly recovering from your BFN.  I had my 3rd BFN in April and am now trying to dust myself down and look towards my next fresh cycle.

Dee


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

I wish you so much luck Dee.

Can I ask why you are waiting to August - the only reason being is that I am not sure of time scales for myself. Will it take me until September to be ready again for medical reasons, or is it your personal choice/clinic restrictions that dictate to you? I just don't want to get my hopes up for being able to start again in July if there is no chance.


----------



## Irish Dee

Hi Hazel,

I'm NHS funded and am at the mercy of the slowly turning wheels of the NHS system.  I would start next month if possible and I also have some weight to shift before my next attempt.  I've done 3 in 12 months and also just need a little bit of 'us time' for me and DH.  

Hope you have success on your next cycle.  Perhaps we will cycle again in the future, I'm sure we have been on the last 2 cycles together.

Dee


----------



## Tama

Hazel I'm sorry sorry to hear about your bfn   It is unfair    Some people just have no clue about IF and what everyone of us has to go through. After my failed IVF my sister asked if we'd do it again and I said of course but since then she has asked if I would use a surrogate - I have no idea why she thinks after one IVF I'd just to using another woman! I guess like you say they have not walked in our shoes but sometime I too think it would be a reality check if they just spent a week or two dealing with it. I wish you loads of luck for your next cycle.

Dee hope you are okay hun


----------



## Fraggles

Hazel sorry for your BFN. Sorry can't hold you back as I say she would deserve everything she got but very happy to come to your work place and either you have the choice of a) pointing me to her car and I will let her car tyres down at home time or b) arrange for a huge pile of manure to be dumped outside her front door or c) stick a load of stink bombs through her letter box - please rsvp

What a very stupid, insensitive comment.


----------



## Izzybear

Hazel

So sorry for your BFN

Fraggles, loving the suggestions for the PSP to do

Izzy
x


----------



## coweyes

I have also had this comment, but it was from a man   !  My work colleague said why would you do it again if its failed twice, its obviously not going to work!  Mind you the same woman said " why are you wasting your money on ivf when you could just adopt!!!!!!!! Needless to say i don't talk to her about tx any more. x


----------



## Mousky

Hazel - I had no idea you got a BFN    

Dee - glad to hear you're dusting yourself off   

It doesn't get any easier, does it? I think I always forget how bad a BFN feels until I get another   That's why I decided to postpone my FET and do some more investigations. I want to give my frosties the best chance    But it's very frustrating to have to wait that long    

On the surrogate/adoption comments, they have no clue    They make it sound as if it's as easy as getting a dog from the pond   

Love to all.


----------



## Fraggles

Hi

It's my birthday today and brother phoned to wish me happy birthday.

It started lovely then we discussed my tx journey - some gems were may be if you never have children it's gods will. 

Maybe I have the best of both worlds as I can be around kids when I want to be and leave them when I have had enough.

What you don't have you don't miss.


I know he thinks he is being reassuring and supportive but ......


----------



## Cailin

Hi Everyone,

I thought I would finally post as I have been reading this thread for a while now and find it consoling sometimes that I am not over sensitive and some people just make stupid comments!

Fraggles - family can be tough. They really want to help but I guess they don't know any better what is the right thing to say. I have taught my mum over time by telling her that I don't think certain things were relevant to me. She now tells me she corrects her friends when they make the stupid comments about me!! She was obviously a good student   
And Happy Birthday as well   

AFM - I think the comment that hurt the most was from a friend who knew about our situation & knew I had had a m/c with our first tx. I hadn't kept her in the loop 100% with what we were doing but she knew tx was ongoing. SO I am planning a trip home and had emailed her and then she told me she had some news - shock horror yes she was pg. I assumed 3 months because surely I would have known if it was any longer. No, she was in fact 6 months pg, I was gobsmacked. Couldn't believe she hadn't told me. Then when I actually saw her, myself & my sister were there and we were congratulating her etc and then she turned to me, rubbed my stomach and said ' we just need to get u pg now'. I actually couldn't speak, tg my sis was there to continue talking as I had no clue what to say. I couldn't say anything to her as the night went on as I was so upset & hurt. I know she didn't know what to say but surely anyone in their right mind would know that was wrong? I think I was also upset because she hadn't told me she was pg & I wondered what if I hadn't come home, would she just have told me she'd had a baby next time she saw me?!!

Anyway rant over! I'm sure there are lots of other comments that have happened but that is the one that really sticks in my head.

love to all
Cailin xxx


----------



## Izzybear

Poooo just lost a really long post

Fraggles

 

Families eh?

Cailin

Your friend was probably trying not to upset you but made matters worse by doing what she did.  

I think we're sensitive as we wouldnt dream of saying anything which would cause upset and so it comes as a shock when others do just that

I met a friend of a friend recently who has 7, yes 7 children all of the same sex and was moaning that she wished she had one of the other variety.......went on to ask me why I didnt have any.  Felt a bit awkward as the friend doesn't know about our journey.  Oh to be in a position to moan about not having the right variety in my mass brood of healthy children   

Izzy
x


----------



## Suse14

Hi Ladies, 

I guess I'm having a bit of a rant on behalf of a girl at work...... honestly can't believe what happened today! 

Bit of background.....I had a mmc at 12 weeks and 4 days last year after 2 years of ttc, and a failed IVF in March this year. People at work have been supportive although obviously not sure what to say at times, but that's understandable. A girl  at work recently had a mc at 8 weeks, she had told people she was pg and was really excited about it (due to the type of job we are in it is neccessary to let bosses know straight away if pg due to physical side of job).

So today...... she was asked by a female colleague "are you sure you were actually pregnant?" Honestly I can't believe it, it then energed that others in her "team" had been discussing her misscarriage and questioning if she was ever pregnant!!!!!! 

It is quite obvious that none of these people have ever experienced the pain of miscarriage or infertility! I have given the girl the details of FF and hope she has a read through this thread and realises that some people are just completely self-centred and don't think about the pain of others, but that others understand exactly what she is going though and are there to support her!

Anyway, rant over..... sorry!

Suse x


----------



## vickym1984

OMG-I don't know what I would have said if I was her, or even I had been there witnessing it, thats a horrid thing to say


----------



## helen6887

Oh Suse, 

Your post brought a tear to my eye. I know exactly how you and your poor work colleague feel. If you look at my  signature you'll see that I too suffered an early m/c (9 weeks) having at that stage been trying for over 12 years to get pregnant. At the time I was working part-time as a carer for an elderly lady (who was a demon, I can tell you). The day after I came out of hospital, she was on the phone asking me when I was coming back to work for her, and I quote 'who's going to look after me whilst you're off, a week is long enough to get over a miscarriage, you should get back to work'. Needless to say I handed in my notice shortly after that. She was such a demanding witch whilst I was pregnant, and then so unsympathetic when i lost the baby, I never could forgive her after that. 

I'm always surprised that other people, especially women, can be so dismissive of women in our situation. Even my church Paster's wife said she could only give me a few weeks off teaching at Sunday School, as I was needed back. She had also had a m/c a few months before me, but couldn't seem to understand why I didn't want to be amongst other people's children at that time. She told me I'd soon get over the m/c and when I asked her how she got over hers, she said 'Oh well I had to, I had (other child) to look after'. EXACTLY!! I never had the luxury of having another child to look after, to 'get me over' my m/c!!!   People can be sOOO stupid eh?

Helen xxx


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

That is so disgusting I do not know what to do with myself     

What did they want to do - inspect the products of conception?

The poor girl's baby has died. Does anyone have any compassion any more?

Makes me sick!

It is like saying to someone who has had cancer - we don't believe you ever had cancer - like it was an excuse not to come to work!


----------



## vickym1984

Stupid rather than upsetting but, Was in town when a direct sales person from N Power approached me, thought I would give them some time to talk about how they could save me money as I was only killing time anyway lol.

Anyway, I said lived in a 2 bedroom flat with my husband , she asked "any kids?" and I replied no, "Oh, planning any soon", ok, pleasant question just muttered maybe, anyway 5 minutes later she asks how long I have been married and I say 4 years, she says "How come you haven't had any kids yet then, you should get a move on". I was speechless


----------



## JasmineX

Oh Vicky     

I was sent an advert a couple of weeks ago which had some interesting words in. I was hoping to paste them here,but then lost it   

Anyway it basically said the women coping with infertility can often have the same stress levels and feelings as those who have been diagnosed with life-threatening illnesses like cancer.

And I thought, that explains a lot about why we are so sensitive to these comments that others make, and why sometimes they can cut so deep even when they are seemingly "harmless".

Still, we have to remember that we are all the more stronger for being on this journey, and one way or another our babies and children will come to us, or we will move on.

These stupid comments are just flies to be swatted away and stamped on   

Hope you are all well

 

Jasmine
XXXXX


----------



## Fraggles

Jasmine


I have been researching infertility and can confirm that they say the stress levels of ivf are equivalent to that of having cancer.


F x


----------



## willsmum

Hi All,
        It sickens me to read all of your posts, people are so damn insensitive   . Glad to know that its not just me being "oversensitive" about such comments.
I wont post the hurtful things that have been said to me as i just dont have enough time!
I do however have to get this off my chest as im just so angry. (sorry i dont know where else to post!)
Ive been having a pretty cr*p time of it lately   , just had a bfn on ivf #5 and Lost my little boy at 20 weeks just b4 xmas. Add this to seven years of ops, treatments,three other miscarriages not to mention the financial and emotional strain its put on my marraige ( you know how it feels)
On Sunday i went up to see my little boys grave which always cheers me up, well you can imagine my horror to discover some sicko has stolen his little animal ornaments i had placed on there    .
What is the matter with people, they can clearly see its a baby boys grave, is nothing sacred.
It took me the whole day to stop crying and now im just angry. sorry to rant guys, just had to get it off my chest!

Willsmum xxx


----------



## vickym1984

willsmum


----------



## Tama

OMG! Willsmum I'm so sorry    There really are some sick people in this world. I'm so sorry about your losses    Wishing you all the luck in the world for the future x


----------



## Kitten 80

Oh Willsmum thats so horrible   Thats the lowest of the low.


----------



## Suse14

Willsmum, that is so awful. Some people really have no regard for the feelings of others.


----------



## JasmineX

Willsmum, so sorry to read your post, that is so awful     

Jasmine
XXX


----------



## baby maryam

Hello,
I think ppl who have not been in our shoes cannot understand us. Not that they dont want to, they cannot... because they do not have empathy for anyone. 

Some ppl are just selfish, careless etc. 

I have had many ugly comments, but I always tell ppl- are you not afraid that what u r saying to me might come back to haunt you? If not you, ur daughter or sister might have infertility problem, and at that time, u will remember that once upon a time u hurt me with ur ugly words.

Let them be, just keep on being strong, this road is hard enough as it is, we dont need those to make us feel worse about our health.


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Willsmum - All I can say is that nasty things will come to those who do these things to other people eventually. You can be rest assured that what comes around, goes around. What ever fate has in store for them, it won't be pleasant.

There are some seriously sick and horrible people in this world - makes me all the more sad that we can't all procreate and balance the population with lovely people. 

Love to you and your little boy


----------



## helen6887

Willsmum-   so sorry to hear that some complete b******s stole keepsakes from your little boys grave. That's terrible. The really sad thing is that it was probably kids who did it; kids that have complete tools as parents, who haven't even had the gumption/morals to teach them right from wrong, parents that probably bred like rabbits, without a thought to those that would die to be in their position. People that probably don't deserve to be parents, with kids that would have done a dam site better if they had been lucky enough to have someone like you as a parent. Think about it. Life can be so twisted, eh?  

Helen xxx


----------



## willsmum

Hi All,
          Thanks to everyone for your posts   . it really helps to have people on my side.
Willsmum xxxxxxxxx


----------



## beachgirl

Willsmum    how awful, do you have a cemetary warden you can speak to? Can't believe people can stoop that low...


----------



## willsmum

Hi Beachgirl,
                  There isnt a warden as the cemetery is only a small church grave yard in a little village. The village is very nice and quiet, which is why im so surprised it happened.
As Helen said yesterday it was probably kids, but it dosnt excuse it. I have 4 nieces and a nephew who wouldnt dream of doing such a thing.
Willsmum xx


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Perhaps a heart wrenching piece in the local rag would shame the little beasts into handing the things back. Tell them that they can sneak back in the night and put them where they belong.


----------



## beachgirl

Good idea Hazel....sadly some people in this world aren't


----------



## charlie_44

Hi - hope everyone is as okay as can be   

Last week I had it confirmed that I'd had an early M/C    A couple of days later as I was leaving my house I spotted banners and balloons all over one of our neighbours houses as she was in hospital having her baby.  Another of my neighbours asked me what the banners were about so I told her and she said it was lovely to have a baby in the street.  She then went on to say we should have more babies in the street and shouldn't me and my hubby get moving - oh if only we could    She and her hubby are lovely, they are in their 70's with no children of their own, either by choice or not their choice, I thought she might know better   

The baners had been up for days and the wicked side of me was dying to pull them down   

I've had a few people tell me that at least having a M/C shows it can work - that's not helpful as it makes it even harder for me to know when to draw the line on treatment   

Sorry for the me rant - just needed to get it off my chest.  I know it will take time to get over this but it hurts like hell at the mo   

 to all xx


----------



## butsy

Hi all,

what shocking stories!  Sometimes it feels as though the world is a very cruel place - then need to read the 'lovely things people have said or done' thread in order to stay sane!

just wanted to get something off my chest - my boss has been absolutely brilliant so far, and I've just started my 2nd cycle of ICSI.  we've spoken for months now about my plan to take 2 weeks' annual leave this time for 2ww (didn't last time and stressed out about going back to work).  He agreed saying 'that's more important than anything right now' and he really appreciates all the work I've put in in the past (way above and beyond....). anyway, I went to book my leave today, and the administrator took the form to him to sign. Apparently he said he wasn't sure about me taking 'all that time off at the moment'!!  thank God she's quite assertive and knows the situation as well and hammered it home to him how important it was - so he agreed.

I'm sure he'd forgotten or something, but its not helped.  I'm now worried that I'll have to justify myself for taking time off, which I am perfectly within my rights to do!!  doesn't help the stress levels I can tell you....

phew, that's better... thanks xx


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Butsy - it is funny isn't it how they are very supportive until it comes to the crunch. They have no idea that you can't just move it to another week because you don't even know when it will be and it is at a time fixed by your body's response. arraghhhh!

Charlie - I too am sick of the people who put banners up on their house to say there is a baby.
I was actually thinking about this on my dog walk this evening - I was seeing some balloons on a house and it made me think about the people who put banners up.

I wouldn't do it myself if I was ever lucky enough to have a baby - one across the road from us has a down stairs flat and the patio doors were open onto the street, baby in the window in pram, with banners up advertising the fact that there is a baby there. I wouldn't do it for the fear that I might get some 'mad infertile woman' (you know the type   ) knowing there is a new born baby inside waiting to be snatched - can you hear the slight hint of sarcasm in my writing?


----------



## Mrs Rock

A friend of mine had twins a few months ago which she conceived by accident after they emigrated to anoter country for her partner's job.  She had a boy and a girl.  She's just written on ** "Twin parents get asked such odd questions, like 'are they identical' err, no they're a boy and a girl, and 'have you had ivf?', how very dare you!"

Now I know I'm being over sensitive but that "How very dare you" about IVF really grates.  She knows I see her page and that I've had IVF and she's told me she has other friends who've done IVF too.  And she's joking, yes, but she's still implying that IVF twins would be something to be ashamed of instead of a wonderful gift.  I got so mad I have de-friended her, I didn't want to keep seeing her baby photos anyway.  I comfort myself with telling myself that unlike me, despite her efforts she's never had a proper career and the way things are going she's not likely to either.  I get the feeling that's why she 'accidentally' got pg when they moved abroad.  And if that makes me a beatch, I really don't care!


----------



## Tama

I'm with you Mrs Rock how dare she    What a comment to make, children are a gift no matter how they come into this world. I am angry and I don't even know her. She needs a jolly good kick up the    ! I have to say that ** is a bt of a double edged knife for me, I love to catch up with people but baby scan and photos do upset me. I try to stay off it but it's a bit car crash for me I do have to just go on to see what is happening    Big    to you xx


----------



## willsmum

Charlie - I know what you mean about the banners and balloons. I remember when my sister in law had her third child. She didnt speak to my brother for a whole day because he didnt take a helium balloon to her in hospital    wot a selfish cow! and those signs in the back of cars that say "baby on board" why not just put a sign up saying "im fertile"!

Mrs Rock - Sometimes our friends and family say the most insensitive things, this is why i have no friends of child bearing age. Family however you have to put up with. Like my stupid sister   . The day after i buried my baby she told me that her stepdaughter had been round showing her scan photos and how it was the last thing she had wanted to see. Hello! that was the last thing i wanted to hear. Oh that along with her rant on how there was no god. Unbelievable considering she had been at the funeral and knew the only thing keeping me going was the belief that William was safe in heaven.
She asked me the other day if i would ever consider surogacy. I said maybe one day but i would like to do everything to carry a baby myself. She then proceeded to tell me how she would like to be my surrogate but couldnt because she would be scared she might want to keep the baby (even though she has 2 kids) She then said her stepdaughter would do it for 15000!
How dare she    First of all im not even thinking about surrogacy and even if i was would never ask her because she is soooo selfish !

Sorry to rant!


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Arrrrrrrraghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!

How VERY dare they?

More later when I am not at work!


----------



## charlie_44

Hazel - you had me chuckling at the 'mad infertile woman' bit   

willsmum - I couldn't believe the thoughtless comments your sister made   and your sister-in-law is a right silly moo   

Hugs to all


----------



## bankie

Willsmum - I am SOOOOOO glad you said that about the 'baby on board' banners.  For months I've been thinking that I'm a bitter paranoid cow to get so wound up by them.  But, just to clarify - what exactly are their purpose?  When I see one it's not as if I think 'Oh there's a baby in the car, so I'd better drive safely to make sure I don't drive into them'....in fact if anything, it makes me more inclined to do so.      

Oh it feels good to get that out, they just REALLY bug me!


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

I was told once that these baby on board banners are to alert the emergency services if there is a crash to find a baby that might have fallen out of the car.

Makes me want to say 'so?' So you are adverising this baby as available to the 'mad infertile woman'    to snatch when you nip into pay for petrol!

Could also mean - don't drive anywhere near me as I have just given birth, have 'baby brain' and you are in serious danger!!!

Mrs Rock - that makes me SICK. I think you should give that 'friend' a piece of your mind - I would do it for you - just give me the address! How bloody thoughtless, insulting and conceited?

All I can say is that all things come to those who wait, you just have to bide your time and something will happen to make her fall off her ivory tower into the real world!

Willsmum - why do these people think that as soon as we lose one baby our wombs are never good enough to house another baby and we immediately have to run to another woman?
I have had that comment so many times that I want to punch them. They have no understanding of why these things might happen or not happen and make inappropriate comments that you do not need to hear.

I have been reading an excellent book if anyone is interested - it has certainly made me feel better and once completing it and doing the techniques I am sure it will help us all to cope with comments - I got it second hand off Amazon for £5 and it is Dr Alice Domar - Conquering Infertility. It is all about the mind/ body approach to coping with all of this cr*p we have to endure daily! And it can improve IVF success.
It has really been like listening to a tape of my brain playing or me looking in a mirror - she has it all there - everything we think feel and have said to us - AND the coping strategies to try.


----------



## coweyes

I have never been an angry person but i find myself feeling angry with the world since i started this IF journey.  I re live the things people have said to me and just get angrier and angrier.  I used to get so angry and wound up about things that were written on ** and then became obsesses with reading all the things that upset me! A few weeks ago i could not take it any more and decided to cancel my ** status, bet thing i have done all month.  I have remained in contact with the people i want to by phone and text, the rest i have ditched, why put yourself through it!!!!  I have to say that i feel a lot better for it already.


I am not suprised by the ivf comment tbh, when people write something on ** its as if they forget that others read it, the funny thing is they would not dream of saying it to you cos they would not want to hurt your feelings, but its not even considered when sat at home typing it on **. Get rid of your profile your be surprised at how much better you feel. xxxxxx


----------



## daisy22

Cant believe how insensitive people are   

Just thought I'd share a funny thing 'stupid thing' with you all!!

It happened just before my EC on weds! Was laying on the theatre table- naked apart from the blue paper gown, with my legs in stirrups!! There must have been at least 10 people in there. An ODP was putting the monitoring on me and the anaethetist had a tray with the cannula he was about to put in my hand in. He then says to me ....

"Your heart rate is a bit fast- are you nervous?"


Um doh!! What do you think?? What a numpty LOL


----------



## coweyes

Daisy


Ha ha thats a great one!  No lieing hear with my legs up is an everyday thing, i am fine with it honestly!! stupid stupid people.


That reminded me.  Ages ago i was getting some blood tests done at the GPs it was for your day 5 and 21 fertility tests, the nurse said to me " o so do you have any children at home!!!!".  Ha ha had to laugh felt quite sorry for her, everyone else must have been cringing.


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Don't do ** - personally I have never understood it.

These people are not friends if they prattle on about what they think and feel and never consider who they might be talking to. They wouldn't say most of this stuff at a dinner party so why would they write it for those exact same people to read? It seems to me that it is an opening for people to say all of the nasty little wormy things they would like to say, but never had the guts. There is no inhibition. 

I think it is just a sign of how horrid and inconsiderate and lacking in social responsibility this country is getting.

My mum is sadly dead, but she was a very wise lady and she said ''if you can't say anything real nice, it is better not to say anything at all''

Did you see the Queens's speech the other day - sitting there in her throne and crown and robes talking about high speed broad band and anti-social behaviour. I thought it was odd - any one else?

Anyone else sickened to hear that the woman who nearly sunburned her baby to death while drinking beer on the beach has been allowed to take him home?


----------



## PositiveCi

Hi everyone,

It is so shocking the things people say, like someone said on here, if you can't say anything nice, I would rather you didn't say anything!

I have a friend who is so insensitive, she's one of these who thinks she tells it straight, which I think is great but I also think you have to realise when is the best time to use it.  When DP and I were trying to conceive, her words were 'what people don't realise is that they just need to get a bit p*ssed and just do it, no need for all this ovulation test crap...' at which point I thought, no. 1: how do you know having NEVER ever tried for a baby and no: 2 it really isn't that simple!  Whilst going through the treatment, she rarely got in touch but she sent a few emails 2 of which were sent towards the end of the treatment in the 2WW, and 1 of those was on the day I got my period 2 days before my OTD.  We then had a series of text conversations which went something like this:

Her: Are you in work? I've sent you emails
Me: No, at home, called in sick, got my period today so devastated
Her: Oh, thought you were on holiday or ignoring me
Me: Sorry, defo not ignoring you, just been distracted will reply tomorrow, won't be able to come to your bday drinks but will take you out the week after
Her: Thought you would say that, can see your distracted, will leave you to it, everythings fine my end thanks for asking.
Me: Glad your OK, BTW are you peed off at me?
Her: No but life goes on for the rest of us...

Now, is it be or what an insensitive *itch
I've had a few days to get my head round it but am still upset by her insensitivity, I get that this isn't important to everyone and that it is MY journey but I never ever forced myself on her, infact I was happy to hide in my cubby hole and emerge when my wounds were sufficiently licked....

Some people!!!

Wilsmum - your family!!!!!! Your doing the right thing coming on here for some support from people who understand! Hugs to you!

xx


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## Tama

PositiveCi sorry to hear about your -ve hun   I know that life goes on for other people but _hello _this isn't a headache or a tummy bug! I'm sorry but I think your friend is totally out of order and I too would be angry that she behaved like that. Very insensitive and totally heartless. Wishing you lots of luck for your next cycle hun   xx


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## beachgirl

Think that lots of hugs all around are needed...it's a good just there's others like minded isn't it


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## willsmum

Positiveci - Sounds to me like your friend is very immature and very selfish. Do you really need her as a friend? I have cut several people out of my life cos they just dont give a stuff about what im going through. I only have 2 real friends, and thats all i need because they care so much about what im going through.

I read a book called the infertility survival handbook. Its by an American woman who has battled infertility for years. She said " cut the people out of your life that dont care about you and dont feel guilty about it. Be selfish and do what ever it takes to get you through this extremely difficult time in your life"

As for **, no offence but get a life! If you want to talk to someone, do it on here with like minded caring ladies. Not selfish b****s who are so sad they have to tell you what they had for breakfast etc etc!!!!


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## Galldora

Hi Willsmum and everybody,

I'm so proud of us all for getting through this ****ty experience despite these added weapons to wound us.

The most idiotic and hurtful thing I heard was between two of my fellow nurses at work, while I was in the room.  One said to the other that becoming a mother makes you a better nurse, because "it gets rid of that selfish streak".  Just b*ll*cks.  I still remember it like it was yesterday as it cut so deep.

  to everyone,

Galldora x


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## coweyes

Positve CI


It has to be said that is pretty terrible!  I can understand people replying wrongly or insensitivity cos they don't know what to say, but i HATE being dismissed like its no big deal.  I would talk to this friend and tell her how it makes you feel as at the moment it appears she has her head up her axx. xx


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## PositiveCi

Mothers make better nurses hey!?!? and anyone who's not a Mother is selfish!? Such a stupid thing to say in any circumstance, if I ever become a Mother I will never ever think I am better than anyone, it just angers me...

As for ** I am a fan BUT have not been offended just yet as have been a bit absent during my first cycle, but can understand if it hurting people cos people use it as a diary for feelings and announcements!

Thanks for all your comments on my 'friend'....I think I will confront her and say that she hurts my feelings by dismissing something that devastated me, she may not understand it or care for it but she has to appreciate that it is a massive deal to me and if she can't be sympathetic or sensitive then to not contact me at all through treatment times....however it leads me to believe that if she can't....what kind of a friend is she?!? And your right Willsmum...do I really need her?

But yes, am so pleased to have everyone on FF, this particular story i feel I cannot tell my DP about as she is part of a massive group in which her sisters hubby is one of my DP's close friends! Don't want him to think badly of her (even though she deserves it!!!).


So feel very fortunate to have you ladies xxx


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## misha moo

hello ladies

is it ok if i join in ladies? i thought it seams like a good place to come to share the difficulty of IF and the insensitivity we face at times.

PositiveCi- I am sorry to say that i don't think your friend is a friend. If she was she would be concerned when she had not heard from u, especially given the circumstances, not going in a huff because u didn't replay and making it about her feelings. 

MISHA X


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## beachgirl

New home this way.......http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=237961.new#new


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