# Fabulous 40s: after a BFN - what to do next? Support and chat



## Moominmum

Hi All,

I just wanted to create a thread for us fabulous 40s who have had one or more BFN where we can support each other on our next steps in life, wether it is to continue the process or go down another route.

AFM, we have just had a BFN and I am now so confused as to what to do next...

Please join in!


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## Lozster

In the past year I've had 2 fresh cycles and 1 FET - all BFN.  I was about to go down the DE route when the NHS offered me a final cycle.  Played with my head a bit as I'd given up on my own eggs but, as I've been taking DHEA for 6 months, I had an AMH done that showed a 2 point increase and I'm now going again.  Currently on day 3 of stim.

There's not a thing about this that isn't hard, hard, hard.


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## hopeful68

if possible, i will join this thread too. not strictly had a BFN, as i did have a BFP, but after the first scan i had an empty sack, a week later a second scan, same thing but sack had  grown so a third scan scheduled for 10 days later. after that off meds and bled!! so now failed cycle. it was my only cycle due to lack of funds. i do have a follow up at the end of nov so have already emailed my questions through in the form of a letter so if i get any tips i will post asap!!

hugs to you all and may we be able to accept our fate!


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## fififi

Popping in to bookmark - will post properly soon.
Hugs to all


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## Salad4

Having a bit of a slump today after staying strong following failed cycle (only one immature egg harvested).  I'll try to get myself back up to strength before thinking about next steps.  Waiting for AFM after all the drugs clear my system - not sure how long that will take.  Then I'll need to brace myself for the follow up session.  Sally


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## LellyLupin

Hi Girls xx

Right there with you Sally, still haven't rang my clinic and still in a mess emotionally, Lozster you said it it this process is a nightmare xx  I have the chance to get a horse but my head is still considering my brothers offer so I daren't commit.  Why can't I just move on!!!!!


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## cornwall

Hope it's ok for me to join you. I've been lurking for a few months now but haven't felt able to post.

I had my first DEIVF last month (first fertility tx). Everything seemed perfect - 3 embies, all 5 day blasts, my lining was over 10mm, I took it easy for the first week etc. Yet, I got a BFN. I was gutted, much more upset than I'd expected.

DH and I will try again as soon as possible. I'm 49 so time is definitely not on my side! I have two grown up children from a previous relationship but DH doesn't have any kids and is desperate to be a daddy.


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## Moominmum

Hi Loz, hopeful, fififi, Salad, Lesley and cornwall.

Firstly gig hugs to you all  

I am not sure I can say that I am glad that so many are joining this thread - ideally we should not have to join this one! But you know what I mean. Having gone through the IVF process as an "IVF virgin", with all what it takes physically and emotionally, I am glad to be able to share my thoughts with "people who know".

Lesley, Salad: I think I only had the follow-up session so quickly as I had no idea how hard that session would be. I had no idea that it would be (well at least at "my" clinic) an "Oh well, we did everything right so it is all YOU" kind of approach. I found myself being so confused and shocked that I only afterwards, of course, realised what I should have said/asked. And maybe have been a bit more "aggressive" in my questions not just accepting a vague answer (I rather then hear "I don't know").

I am currently thinking of just forgetting about any treatment and trying naturally or getting my notes and ask another clinic to explain (as they hopefully would be more willing to critic but then what is honest as they will also wear the "sales hat"?) or ask for another consultant at the same clinic to explain properly (but then the consultants at the clinic all talk to each other so I will probably just get the same vague answer). But maybe the information was not vague I just was too shocked too comprehend? How do you tackle such a meeting and listen clearly? It was really clear at that meeting (or was for me at least) that for them it is a profession (and business) and for me/us it is about our lives.

We must not forget to live our lives in the process.


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## LellyLupin

Moomin I honestly think they don't know why it doesn't work.  They just blame the eggs over and over, yet before the BFN they tell you how good they are    I think its pot luck like the lottery as even of all your ducks are in a row it still doesn't work, I guess like in nature.  What does everyone else think?


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## Lozster

Hopeful, you deserve an extra special place here as getting a bfp only to then get bad news is beyond cruel.  

Moonin, I can sympathise totally with your follow up consultation experience.  I had a really awkward, unhelpful pre treatment appointment with a private consultant.  I felt like I had to lead the whole way and think of every question as he didn't provide any direction.  Worse, this was a bloke who people eulogise about so I thought it must be me!  Next visit I took my other half and it was much better. Are you able to e mail any questions?


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## hopeful68

I can only say I managed to channel my frustration, anger and depression ( and agate's info) into a letter. I reread it before sending to the clinic asking for answers as to why a natural and now an ivf tx resulted in blighted ovum/ empty sacks. Given hx should other tests have been done before tx started... Etc. Well a phone call from the main man 7 pm last fri was a surprise followed by an appologetic and commiseration letter from him asking me to arrange a FREE follow up!! I will take a copy of my letter and a pen and make notes. If I can work out how to I will upload- if useful answers are given!!  I think it has helped guide the follow up. I basically want to know if my eggs are shot away, if any tests can show that, and therefore if I have any hope of natural or do I admit defeat and try and get (my/a) life back to some sort of 'normal'!

Spent the wend with brother, his kids x2 4&2 yrs and his wife, she said she was jealous of the fact dh & I are free to go and do what we want not bothered by kids....! I told her about my failed cycle and that made her think a bit!!! We agreed that we all want what we don't or can't have! 

Any how, hugs to all and here is hoping for answers, or peace of spirit.


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## Sushi Lover

Thanks for creating this thread Moominmum.... it's nice to see some familiar names and some new ones too.

Lozster... best of luck with this cycle.  Hopefully the DHEA supplements have helped improve your eggs.  I agree, nothing about it is enjoyable and it doesn't get any easier the more times you try either!

Hopeful68....  What a good idea with the letter.  It would really help all of us to see your questions and answers from the clinic.  I'm sure we all have exactly the same ones!  If you are able to upload then it would be greatly appreciated.  Friends have said that to me "you are so lucky to have lots of lovely holidays, nights out, designer handbags because you don't have kids"...  really annoys me.  Would give up all the material things and nights out for a child.  People just don't think.  Do they not realise just how lucky they are?

Hiya Fififi...  Hope you are feeling a little better now.  Post soon!

Sally... I think you doing the right thing getting your strength back before planning next steps.  All those horrible drugs in our systems following a failed IVF mess with our moods, decision-making ability and emotional state.  I'm just starting to feel better now after 5 drug-free days.

Lesley.... If you aren't ready to move on lovie then you should seriously think about accepting your dear brother's offer and give it another go.  The horse can wait!  I agree with you about the egg quality thing.  In the stimulation process they don't tell you your eggs are rubbish, just encourage you to part with your money as you have enough follicles etc. etc. "it only takes one"... Then the BFN arrives and they won't take any responsibility...  just transfer the blame to you and your crappy eggs!  Makes me cross.  It is luck..  nature is the same. I'm with you on that.

Cornwall... welcome to the forum.  The first post is always a bit nerve-racking, but you'll get used to it and find the support and advice is invaluable.  Oh wow, it did sound perfect last time.  Just goes to show how much luck plays a part.  Have you had your follow-up appt?  What reason have they given you for it not working?

Moominmum.... Yes, I know what you mean about so many people joining in.  Pretty sure it doesn't work first time in most cases though.  So makes sense that there are a fair few of us.  It's so tricky to remain calm and focused in those meetings and ask all the right questions.  I try and remain in 'work-mode' and not let my emotions come into play.  Pretend I'm discussing someone else can help.  I wonder if it was a bit too soon and that's why you were confused?  Can you book another follow-up session and explain it was too soon before?  That you have more questions?  Unfortunately I think all clinics are similar in their business-like approach and lose sight of the fact that they are playing with our lives here.  No bed-side manner!  I always take my other half along with me now (as Lozster said).  I find the consultants try a bit harder with a bloke in the room!  Bad isn't it?  Also he remembers to ask questions I forget about and keeps a clearer head.

Hugs to everyone.  K xxx


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## cornwall

I don't think I'll have a follow up session. I'm with Pedieos in Cyprus and I'm not sure they do follow up sessions unless you specifically ask. I've paid a special offer price for 6 cycles over 2 years so I don't need to worry about finding the money for the next cycle. Also, it's in the clinic's interests for me to have a successful cycle early on. 

Although my last cycle seemed perfect, I appreciate that there is always an element of luck involved. I've had two successful pregnancies with no complications and, although they were a long time ago, they prove that my body can do this. So, rather than worry about why the cycle didn't work, I'm just going to focus on the next one.


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## Coolish

Hi everyone, Just saw this and thought I'd join in. It's nice to see so many people on this, but also such a shame that so many of us are here...

I've just finally had a BFN on this cycle today after spending the weekend in 'beta hell' hoping that my levels would rise from the 18.1 they measured on Wednesday. Today I was gleefully told by my doctor's receptionist that my resuls were normal, so I (hopefully) asked for the count and was told it is less than 5. Apparently my receptioinst can only give out results as normal or abnormal. Therefore I guess a positive result would be abnormal.... oh to be abnormal...  

I've just hit another crossroads. We've had 4 DE cycles in the last year, with perfect blasts each time, 2 different 'proven' donors, a change of protocal each time, and apparently perfect lining. I've tried sitting around with my feet up and carrying on as normal. Plus in May I had a load of blood tests (thrombophillia stuff) and a hysteroscopy to lok at my various fibroids. 

Nothing seems to be working for us. I'm not sure what to do next. We can afford another attempt - which I know puts us in a better position than many people on FF - but do we try more tests first? Is it time to try an other clinic (not that we don't like our current clinic and they have been very forward thinking at trying new techniques)?

I'm sure many of you on here will know exacly where I'm coming from!


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## hopeful68

For those interested, below is the content of my letter to the clinic. feel free to plagerise if you feel it is a way forward for you to get answers at your follow up. as and when i get any answers i will retype and edit so you can see them. - i have left out clinic and persoanl contact info!!
so here is my 'Dear Clinic' letter........

"Unfortunately it has resulted in an empty sack/false pregnancy and I am currently awaiting the bleed. This is the 2nd pregnancy I have had, the first a natural one several years ago and it too was an empty sack. Based on this I was wondering if you can suggest any tests that might more accurately predict my egg quality as the only test done at the clinic was my reserve which obviously doesn’t account for quality. I also had 3 embryos put back and only one implanted, indicating a quality issue somewhere.
I am 42, my husband is 54 so age is not on our side. We also had to self fund this treatment and due to our salaries cant afford another round of treatment – well at least not until we have saved for a few years by which time I really will be too old! I would like to try and establish if there is any chance of a natural pregnancy, if there isn’t I don’t have to live wondering whether this is the month it works!
Having done some research there are some tests that can be done but I was wondering if they are really any good at diagnostics or not.  Also do not know which of the tests might be able to be done by a GP or which might have to be done privately. (I am not sure if my GP will do them anyway as she wouldn’t prescribe the progesterone for me as it cost too much and was a result of a private treatment!)
The tests I have found are;
FSH – at different days in the cycle
DHEA
Free testosterone
Estrodial
SHBG 
LH
Prolactin
Thyroid – TSH & free T4 & anti-thyroid antibodies
Cervical mucosal tests – might show I am a hostile environment for my husbands sperm.
Also mycoplasma & ureaplasma – although implantation doesn’t appear to be the issue.
Although my tubes were shown to be clear on a previous investigation by Mr XXXXXX  and I haven’t  had any infections is there a chance they could have blocked up preventing egg passage – I ask as my only natural pregnancy was a few months after I had them checked and I suppose cleared if they were blocked!
Is it worth doing a sperm DNA fragmentation test – again more to confirm the problem lies with my eggs than his sperm.
Would any supplements other than multi vits, such as DHEA be of benefit in enhancing egg quality.
Also can I have some feed back on the eggs collected and their development in the lab.  Ie maturity, development on the different days and if that was in line with expected. 
I also have a question as to why you don’t aim for blastocyst stages (especially for older ladies), for me to know that a morula had developed would have given me confidence that this might be a good chance, given my history of empty sack pregnancy to date. I would rather have nothing to put back than put back a faulty embryo. 
Can I also suggest that when other ladies present with an empty sack, HCG bloods are done and sent with the scan info to the EPU for follow up. I have had to endure the second scan, but due to the sack being too small yet having grown since the first scan was referred again for a further follow up scan 10 days later, in the mean time staying on the progesterone – which seemed pointless and a literal waste of money. HCGs combined with 2x empty sack scans may have shown the confirmed failed pregnancy a week earlier and allowed me to get on with life a bit quicker – although still awaiting the bleed.

Any response to this (long) list of questions would be appreciated, especially an indication of which tests might be beneficial, which should, in theory,  be done by my GP/NHS and which would have to be private.

Thanks you for your time and a reply can be emailed to me."

- most of this info was lifted from agate's thread on here somewhere.

M


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## LellyLupin

Wow good letter Hopeful, I would be very interested in what they say.  xx


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## Moominmum

Welcome cooljules – good to have you here but sorry that you have to be here...  

Thanks Hopeful! Will be interesting to hear what they sat/write.  

I couldn’t agree more with “I would rather have nothing to put back than put back a faulty embryo. “

In our case I think I got so upset after the follow-up because the Dr said that when they looked at the eggs in the beginning they said that they saw that all my eggs were abnormal. Still the info I got after the fertilisation was that all embies were top quality and in general it was all good for the first three days. Then by day four I “only” had one morula and one pre-morula that they felt were good enough to transfer.

But if they claim that they knew that all was cr*p to start with, why progress? What’s the point in transferring something abnormal that they know will fail eventually? Also we could have avoided the extra cost for assisted hatching and ICSI if they had stopped at a point where they claim to have had the information they say now is the reason for the BFN.

Or it could be that they don’t know what the problem was really but then they should say that rather than blame me.
It just feels like someone saying “I didn’t like him anyway” after being dumped by a date. Frustrating!  

If they can screen the eggs, then do it. And if they cannot, then don't use that as an excuse. 

Kirsty, I agree that I probably had the follow-up too soon for my own good but then the issue is that I am a person that keep on thinking 24/7 on thing so maybe I would have gone bananas if I had waited? It is not easy to do the right thing however you do it.

Cornwall, Lesley, Salad, Lozster, fififi: hope you are all doing okay today.


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## fififi

Hi everyone - wow aside from those I "know" already there's lots of new additions so hello to you all. Shame we're on this thread but hopefully by supporting each other over the next few months we will all be able to move into a pregnancy thread in the not too distant future       

Thanks for the supportive comments from those ladies I was cycling with over last few weeks. I'm managing better than expected this week following BFN confirmed last Weds. Still on antibiotics for cough/chest infection but thankfully it's much improved so risk of it being whooping cough now pretty low. Am planning on going back to work this week so hoping that doesn't throw my emotions too much. I'd told a few people I was having IVF so now need to let them know it didn't work - they were all very supportive but aside from one lady haven't really a clue about what it involves and how emotionally cr*p I'll be feeling now. In a way people being "nice" is going to be the challenging part of being back at work - how daft is that?!!!
Will have cycle review in 3 weeks time where my focus is supposedly on trying to see what, if anything, I can do to boost my natural chances. This cycle was to be our last but already I'm struggling to reach closure and accept that I've spent the last 3.5 years TTC including 6 assisted cycles (3 x IUI, 3xIVF) and living in such a restricted way for nothing. Not sure what consultant will advise for me now assisted fertility wise so trying to prepare myself for the fact he may say it's the end for me with OE. Aside from emotional and physical stresses TTC has put on me and DH we're at an end financially too so think it's highly unlikely we could afford a DE cycle even if I can persuade DH to have 1 "last" try.

Had planned on adding some personals but just seen the time and I need to go to bed as have early start tomorrow - so will just have to add hugs for now, sorry!


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## Sushi Lover

Hopeful68...  thanks for the letter.  Will be really interested in the responses!

Moominmum.... can abnormal eggs become normal embryos then?  Seems a bit odd that the clinic tell you that after EC and still continue with the ICSI/assisted hatching etc.?  They took your money and everything?!  They seem to have put you through such a lot and are now saying the abnormal eggs are to blame for the BFN...  which they knew about in the beginning! I can understand why it's all a jumble in your head.  I'd be confused to.  Sounds like they are now using that as an excuse for it not working.  Poor you.  You don't need that news.  Maybe you write them a stinking letter of complaint?!  I see what you mean about not wanting to wait for a follow-up...  it can send you stir crazy!

Fififi..... it's awful having to tell people it didn't work.  I learnt the hard way first time around and told far too many people.  I spent most of the morning texting/emailing/calling friends to say it was a BFN.  It was terrible!  Some friends were upset for me and I ended up providing comforting words of encouragement to them??  What's that all about?!  I hope the one insensitive lady who doesn't have a clue won't say too much.  My last cycle I hardly told a soul and it's easier not having to do the follow-up calls.  I had a few select shoulders to cry on..  plus this site is vital for support.  Maybe we'll get some advice on boosting our natural fertility from Hopeful68's letter?

Cornwall...  the special offer price for 6 cycles sounds like a good plan.  What's the clinic in Cyprus like?  Do you have to spend two weeks there 'on holiday' having scans/bloods etc?  Or can they do scans in the UK and you just travel for EC and ET?  I always wondered how the IVF abroad process worked.

Welcome cooljules....  gosh, what a dilemma.  It's difficult to find answers/advice for you when you've had perfect blasts each time.  Have you done all the clexane/aspirin, steroids, progesterone support stuff after the transfer?  Did the hysteroscopy find fibroids?  I know having them can affect implantation.  Maybe that's the problem?  What have the clinic said?  Maybe you need to change clinics...  try somewhere/something new?

Lesley...  how are you doing?  Did you reach any decisions regarding your brother's offer or the follow-up appt?

AFM...  feeling a bit more positive.  We are trying naturally for a few months and hope to go again in December.  Are going to move clinics and looking to book the initial consultation today for one day next week.  I feel excited that we are trying something different.

K xx


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## cornwall

Hi, hope everyone is coping.

DH and I decided we wouldn't tell anyone about our IVF. We didn't even tell anyone we'd gone on holiday! When I needed a blood test to confirm BFN, I told my GP and he was amazed that we'd managed to get everything organised so quickly. Not telling anyone meant that we didn't have the support of family and friends and no one knew the difficulties we were going through. However, we didn't have to tell anyone about our BFN so that was easier.

To answer the questions about my clinic, the special offer is 6 cycles over 2 years for 7,500 euros. They consider a successful cycle to be a heartbeat at 10 weeks (I think), but they seem to be quite lenient as someone got further tx when they miscarried after 10 weeks. A single cycle costs 5,000 euros so it is in the clinic's best interests to make sure early cycles are successful as they start to lose money on the second cycle.

We had all bloods and semen tests done in the UK. MY GP organised them but we had to pay for some of them. We sent the results to the clinic in Cyprus along with details about what we were looking for in a donor. I already have 2 children so sent some photos of them as well. As soon as we were matched with a donor, I started progynova. I had a lining scan locally and sent the results to the clinic, then they told us when egg collection would be and when we needed to be at the clinic. We went for a week and rented an apartment in Larnaca so we got a holiday as well.

I'm pleased with the clinic and the whole process, from first enquiry to et, was easy and relatively stress free. Booking last minute flights was probably the worst bit as I'm not very good at that sort of stuff and DH was at work so it was all left to me. 

Obviously, I'm disappointed that this cycle didn't work but I am ready to start the next one and looking forward to going back to Cyprus.


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## Sushi Lover

Hiya Cornwall...  thanks for sharing all that with us. Really interesting.  That's such a good deal for the 6 cycles.  I suppose you have to allow for extra costs surrounding accommodation and flights, but it's still much cheaper than the UK!  Getting a holiday out of it is a bonus as well.  If you can call it that?!  Definitely worth considering.  Maybe not over a 2 year timescale as age is against us "Fabulous 40's" though!  Cram it into 1 year?!

Do they post the prescription to you for the stimulation drugs?  Or did you have a natural/unstimulated cycle?  I suppose the follicle check is done at the same time as the lining check at a local hospital/clinic?

It is definitely in their interests to achieve a BFP sooner rather than later though...  otherwise it starts costing them money as you've said. 

Best of luck for your next cycle.  When are you going back for a second try?  K x


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## cornwall

Hi Kirsty,

I'm using donor eggs as mine are well past their sell by date so I didn't need any stimulation drugs - just progynova and cyclogest. They sent me a prescription for these.

I had a lining scan done privately by a lovely doctor who was interested to know where we were going for our IVF and keen to know how we got on. 

I've let the clinic know that I'm ready to start my next cycle as soon as possible. Hopefully we'll be going out there in December or January.


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## Sushi Lover

Ahh, I see!  Sorry for not paying attention... you've probably said about donor eggs on an earlier chat.  It's sometimes hard to keep up with everyone's personal situation, history and progress!

That's nice you've found a lovely doctor that shows an interest.  Most of them have zero bedside manner in my experience.

Excellent news...  something to look forward to and maybe a lovely Christmas present 

I'm keen to start my next round of IVF in December... so maybe we'll both get a nice Christmas or New Year surprise    xxx


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## dillydolly

Cornwall 

Which clinic is it that does that deal?

I am not sure if gennet in Czech do a similar deal


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## cornwall

Hi Dillydolly,

It's Pedieos in Cyprus. There's a thread about it in the Turkey and Cyprus forum area.

When I was doing my research, I found a few clinics which offered a reduced rate after 2 unsuccessful cycles but I think Pedioes was the only one to offer this particular deal.


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## LellyLupin

Kirtsy I am going to give myself a break over Christmas, and if I still feel as I do now I am going to take my brother up on his kind offer.  I am not going back for my follow up chat as I know I will get the age speech, and I really don't want to hear it at the moment.  I am also considering changing clinics and asking that my eggs be left for 5 days instead of 3, I would rather know if they are going to develop than endure the wait again.  That said by Xmas I may be over the slump I am in now and have decided just to move on and live a selfish me me me life  

Sorry for the short me me me post but I really need to go to bed, I am full of coldand feel like death,  much love to all you lovely ladies I really appreciate this thread it was a very good idea Moomin xxx


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## Sushi Lover

Lesley...  sounds like a plan.  Giving yourself some time to think about it and seeing how you feel in January can only help reaching the right decision.  To be honest, I don't blame you with the follow-up chat...  it's all doom and gloom and you'll know exactly what they are going to say!  Change of clinics might be the answer.  I'd be interested to find out if they would leave them for 5 days actually?  Or if they give you the 'they are better off in your womb' lecture!  The 2 week wait is dire.  Better to know sooner rather than later.

Poor you...  dose yourself up and get loads of rest.  Catch up soon.

K x


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## Coolish

Hello lovely ladies!

Les - I'm sort of doing the same as you. I'm giving myself an 'IVF break' until the New Year, but at the same time investigating a new clinic and looking at what tests I can get done before the the New Year. Although I only got my last BFN on Monday, being busy and proactive is keeping me feeling more upbeat (and sane). 

Hey Cornwall - I'm DE as well. A lovely (NOT) clinic in the UK gave me a 0-5% chance with my own eggs a few years ago and told be the emphasis was on the 0%. I'm all for honestly, but a little bit of positivity might have gone a long way 

Kirsty - yes I indeed have fibroids, but the apparently they are quite small (1-2 cms) and not in the way of implantation. But, who knows as I have yet to get any embies to actually properly implant!


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## LellyLupin

Jules we should buddy up then, I definitely need the break as my head is spinning and I feel so so tired. I need to go on a heath kick for a while.  My last clinic hasn't charged me yet for my last IVf I am wondering if they have forgotten    I think I will try somewhere new as it seems to work for other people and there are quite a few BFPs lately. 

Kirsty I can't see the point of putting them back at 3 days, if they were going to survive then surely they would survive till 5 days.  Saying that I had 2 x 3 days and 1 x 5 day Morula put back last time so I wonder if the problem is a sticking oproblem and not an egg quality problem but I don't know what tests I would need done to find that out.


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## Coolish

Les I'm with you on buddying up - we could be non-cycle buddies! 

I've had a couple of cycles really close together and not only feel knackered but also feel like I'm the size of a whale! There's been no holidays this year, just about 20 days spent in Alicante for treatment, which by no way ever feels like a holiday. My head is spinning today as I feel like my negative cycle is about to 'complete' itself. I'm just trying to keep busy though and trying not to dwell on it.


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## Lozster

I know that head spinning so well....  It's the plans that keep me sane.  It's when options seem to be running out that it is worse.  Today was a good day I think for me.  My second scan showed 5 follies which is 3 more than before.  This is my last cycle with my own eggs - a surprise 'gift' from the nhs.  I know my chances are tiny but still trying to remain positive.

One thing you 'resting' ladies mIght want to consider is dhea.  Both my nhs and private consultant recommended it.  My AMH has improved whilst takIng it.


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## Moominmum

Hello lovely ladies,

It is hard to decide upon the next step. I have at least, almost, decided to go for a second opinion elsewhere and also I want to find out about potential "egg abnormality" screening in the process.   Does anyone here know anything about this?

In the meantime I am stuffing myself with various pills although I am not sure that will help but it cannot hurt at least! I also need to convince DH. I have the feeling (he doesn't say it right out but action speaks louder than words...) that he thinks that I should be happy with what we have and just move on. And I do feel very blessed with DS, but I think as I meet so many mums around (I am administrating a group of local mums from the same country as I am plus I am the one in touch with our NCT group) and of course the vast majority has at least 2 kids, I get reminded several times a week that I am the "odd one out". Due to this I too often, as said before, also have to tackle these "So when are you having No 2?" questions.

Cornwall: your 6 times deal sounds great! Seems so much more like a proper plan to have in place.

As for not telling anyone, I only told a few about this cycle. I think I learnt from the mc last year, when I never had in mind that things would not go smoothly (with DS I did everything wrong and had no problems whatsoever) so I told a few, but too many, in week 9 and then I had to text them all about the mc. 

I have to admit though that I am happy to be off the drugs. Finally I feel a bit normal again - no sweat outbrakes or bruises! Woohoo  

   to everyone


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## Sushi Lover

Hi everyone...

Cooljules...  if your fibroids are only tiny I can't see that they'd be a problem to achieve implantation then.  I think that's only with large ones.  Are they considered too small to remove surgically?  If they are gone it might help...  psychologically and physically.  How are you feeling today?  Still shattered?  Sounds like you need a holiday..  it so tough spending money on things like that though when in the back of your mind you want to keep it set aside for the next treatment.  Weekend away?

Lesley...  feeling any better today hun?  You sound exhausted.  My clinic forgot to send me an invoice for a while as well..  unfortunately it turned up a few days after my BFN.  Talk about kick a woman when she's down!!  Yes, I see what you mean about waiting for the strongest ones at day 5. Makes sense doens't it? I didn't realise you had a day 5 last time..  could be an immune or implantation problem then.  Why don't you look for a new clinic and they might have some ideas for other tests they can run?

Lozster.... 5 follicles is perfectly fine for a second scan.  Well done!    I did think about DHEA, but am prone to getting cysts and I've heard it can aggravate or cause them.  I don't want to make things worse in that area, they are a bugger to get rid of.  BTW, there is a thread for 'current cyclers in the 40+ category'.  A few of us chat on there as well.  It might be helpful to you?  

Moominmum... I'm not sure about egg abnormality screening.  But I do remember my last embryologist telling me at EC and ET about eggs that looked abnormal under microscope  (he explained them as ....wrong number of nuclei, numerous vacuoles (crater thingies), wrong number of chromosomes, egg is larger than normal, no shell).  So I think they are quite easy to spot.  That's awful people remind you that you're the "odd one out" ...  how rude!  It must be so tough for you constantly getting asked about number 2.  It's the same when you have none and people ask when you are 'going to start a family' or why you don't have any children.  Insensitive comments.  Good luck convincing your DH to have another try or at least a second opinion.  Use your womanly wiles! haha.

Hopeful68...  did you have any response to your letter yet?  Might be too soon.

How are you Fififi?  Haven't seen you on here for a few days.

Hi Cornwall....  Hope you are well today.

How are you feeling Salad4/Sally?  Haven't heard from you in while.  Drug-free and feeling better now?  Did you book a follow-up appt?

Dillydolly... are you under a clinic in the Czech Republic?  What's your experiences so far?

K xx


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## Coolish

Good morning!

*Moominmum* - a second opinion is really worth it. Doctors can very very sure (almost arrogant) of their own opinion and will almost poo-poo other meidcal professionals. Also I can't believe how insensitive people can be with their comments.

*Lozster* - I'm with you on the plans. I'm a bit of a control freak and it stresses me out when things are out of my contrl and I feel really lost (and down) of I don't have a plan on the go.

*Les* - any ideas on the health kick and how to get your energy levels back?

I'm plowing forward with my plans. Contacted another clinic which has consistently been recommended on FF. I had an immediate response and sent back the medical question forms yesterday and have a telephone consultation with them next Thursday. Already they are suggesting things that I haven't tried yet. Obviously they want to check out the fibroids via scan and have suggested a long (2-3 months) down reg to try and quieten them (I've never had a down reg before) and I'm going to send off a sample for the hidden c test today and they have suggest antivirals during IVF as I have had recurrent shingles, plus immunes testing. As they said, 2 out of 4 attempts, implantation has started but stopped almost straight away.


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## cornwall

Possibly a TMI question but I don't know who else to ask  

Those of you who took progesterone, how soon did your AF start once you'd stopped the progesterone? Also, did you have a normal AF?

My AF started a week after stopping the progesterone. I was expecting it to be heavy but I only bled properly for two days - not as heavy as usual and no bleeding during the night. Since then, I have had small bleeds and spotting every day - now on day 7. 

Also, I'm still getting cramps and niggly pains.

Is anyone else getting the same?


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## hopeful68

Kristy - the reply to the letter was the 7pm phone call from the consultant asking me to book a FREE follow up - normally £120 at my clinic so we shall see - that is around 26th Nov.

Cornwall - i dont know your cycle Hx as you havent got a summary below, but i assume you have been on them for a couple of weeks. i guess if you had a BFN your body will still be trying to cycle normally and could take 2-3 wks to 'let go'. i started bleeding 3 days after but i have been on the with my empty sack for 5 weeks by then and my body really wanted to let go by then and boy did it!! never seen (or felt- painful) such large clots passing - golf balls- literally!! not pleasant. just seems to be dragging on a bit (dregs as i call it!!) may be complete normal by sat which would = 2wks of bleed!!

Moomin - egg quality answers it what i am after too so will see if i get any answers. funny how no one is happy with their lot, you want a second i want one! my sister in law has 2 and envys me having none!! we should all swap around!! 

i am completely distracted from this whole event at the moment, i am back at Uni (for the 4th time!!) studying a fairly intense course so no time to dwel, then getting home and revising 'todays's lesson' and catching up on work emails as i am new in my role as Business Support officer - being a paramedic with not extensive business training it is a bit overwhelming!! also trying to plan course work time -which is hands on patient related stuff and when i am not seeing patients due to being stuck in the office is challenging to say the least!! - plus trying to fit in overtime as i have had a pay cut!! - no time for kids!! - not even much time for DH!!! it will all work out as usual. I MUST trust destiny!!


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## Salad4

Hi there - sorry I've been a bit quiet lately.  Still pulling myself together as I've been pretty down after the last cycle.  Also work is incredibly busy and I think I'm quite impatient with the team (certainly some of them feel very annoying) and we're being restructured.  Oh yes, and we're moving house - leave the flat in Shepherds Bush on 16 Nov, spend two weeks with my sister and then move into the house in Streatham Hill on 30 Nov.  I haven't got close to arranging the follow up visit as I'm too busy with my moving list!
Hopeful - really impressed that you're back at university.  That's hard work, isn't it - I completed a degree with the Open University 5 years ago and it was tough to study and work.
Cornwall - although I've done a number of cycles, I do sometime blank out parts of the experience, so I can't remember when I bled or for how long, but I do feel that sometimes my body goes into a sulk - my spotting really hasn't stopped since the egg collection, which is now 8 days, but I think that the post EC spotting is going to merge into my AF.
Cooljules - I'm impressed by your organisation.  I'm not ready to do that sort of planning just yet - I'm in the vague planning mode at the moment, vaguely thinking through OE vs DE.  
Kirsty - good luck for December
Moominmum - you're right it is so, so good to be off the drugs and for them to be finally out of my system (or almost)
Lozster - 5 follies sounds good - keep on with what you've been doing so far...
Lesley, Jules - I think I too may have Christmas off, but I'm not sure when I'd exactly start up again.  Lesley -    for your slump-recovery - I'm in slump valley too, so know how you feel.
Fiffi - feel better soon - it's not right that you have a cough too...
hugs to all - Sally


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## Moominmum

Good Evening Ladies,

Hope today has been okay for you all.

Cooljules: you are so right about the poo-pooing other medical professionals. I was quite shocked actually about that (yes I came into this thinking it was all about being professional in this business ). But I suppose I have to have a positive attitude to this and at least I know that it is not only my experience (but that is actually really bad).

Hopeful: great news about your free follow-up! Makes me think that I should pester my clinic a bit just for the sake of it.  Work and study at the same time - I so admire people who can do that. I jacked in my job 2.5 years ago to go to law school full time. I don't think I would be organised enough to work AND study. I am very impressed by you! And yes, a swap sounds like a good idea  - you're right, it is hard to be happy with your lot... Well maybe us lot here will be experts in the egg quality issue after this and then we can offer advice at a fraction of the price compared to the clinics 

Salad/Sally: wow girl, you're busy. Work and moving and then this in the middle of it all! I felt that the IVF cycle only was enough for me.

Cornwall: sorry I cannot help. My AF was normal but lighter than normal, but then I had so much drugs and also a D&C so I am not sure what to expect anymore.

Kirsty: I am already starting my project on convincing DH. He does agree I need to know and understand more about what happened. You changing clinic inspires me so I am at last gonna book an initial consultation at another clinic as well.

Lozster: re DHEA, I have actually some delivered today, but I am still not sure. You read so many different views about it and also "my" consultant (whose words I don't trust anyway...) said DHEA was not needed in my case as I have a good number of eggs just not the quality. Is DHEA for improving quality too?

Lesley: how are you feeling today? If I could, I would send you some banana cake I just make and took out from the oven (yes I am baking again!).

fififi: hope you are doing okay. I bet you are busy with half term.

Dillydolly: how are you doing?

   to all


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## LellyLupin

Cornwall I came on 2 days after stopiing the progesterone, slowly at first and then I bled like buggery, hope you soon get it out of the way  

So much for a health kick I am full of cold still and sick of coughing myself awake.  I took my stepdaughter and goddaughter trick or treating in the rain which was not a good idea but what do you do when you've promised.  I am paying the price today cos I feel really shivery.  Once this cold is over though I intend to be healthy for a very long time    Fifi did I get this off you!!!

Hopeful you life sounds manic at the moment - slow down girl  

Sally you are entitled to fell snappy and down, think what you gave just been through. its a really traumatic experience to go through and then you have to come down off the drugs, feel better soon sweetie and good luck with the moving palaver xx

Jules your new clinic sounds great, really interested and switched on, you are inspiring me to search for a new clinic too, xx

Hi Kirsty how are you doing?  That was interesting that your consultant said so much about your eggs, I didnt realise they could tell so much, no-one said a word about mine just that they looked 'bright' 

Moomin I am with you on the not telling so many people topic, its too hard when everyonr keeps asking and then you get a negative,  I hated having to say it failed.  I hope you do manage to persuade DH to try again, my DP just said do whatever makes you happy - a bit of guilt coming out there xx

Congrats on your scan Lozster how did you manage to get funding from the nhs, I got no-where with them not even after pointing out thaat they wasted 3 years by not referring me xx

AFM I am now nursing a baby hedgehog,  for some reason the local vet keeps referring people to me because I have rescued a few, I think they think I run a sanctuary - just call me Mrs Tiggiwinkles !!


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## cornwall

Hi everyone,

Hope you are all coping with your very busy lives. I feel incredibly lazy in comparison  

Thanks for the responses to my question. I used cyclogest for just over 2 weeks and had no bleeding until after I'd stopped using it. My BFN was a very straightforward and disappointing BFN so no added complications. Still spotting  

I'll give it another week and then see my GP if it hasn't stopped.


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## hopeful68

Cornwall, my first mc- natural- I spotted/ bleed in varying amounts for 12 wks!


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## Sushi Lover

Hi everyone,

Cooljules... your new clinic sounds very professional and organised... that's good they are trying a different approach with the long down-reg.  I haven't heard of a 2-3 month one.  You poor thing getting shingles all the time.  That's when your immune system is weakened isn't it? I wonder if that's an issue with your BFNs?

Cornwall...  my bleeding has been different almost every treatment cycle.  I don't think there is any common outcome.  With one of my IUIs I had a really heavy bleed/clots, the second was spotting, then medium/heavy, the third light.  Then with my IVF...first one was a heavy bleed about 3 days after stopping cyclogest and it lasted about 5 days, then the second I started spotting 4 days before OTD...then had 1 heavy day then light/medium bleeding for about 5 days.  None of them have been a 'normal' period.  It's so difficult to gauge.  I was expecting something from a horror movie, but that doesn't always happen apparently.  

Hopeful68...  great about your free follow-up.  It does help when you don't have to pay for something!  Good luck for the 26th then.  Wow you are busy with studying and working..  I take my hat off to you.  I have done it before, but it's tough cramming so much in.  Add IVF to that pile and it sounds overwhelming to say the least.  You must be one tough cookie!

Sally.... sorry hear how down you've been after the last cycle.  It's so tough isn't it?  Lesley is right.. you are allowed to be a bit snappy!  I know I have been too.  Good luck with you house move.  How lovely to go from a flat to a house. You must be excited 

Moomin... so pleased you are going to book a consultation at another clinic too.  Maybe we can find some definitive answers to improving our egg quality?  Banana cake sounds lush!  With all your baking and sewing you could start your own little business up!  I'd love to buy things from your shop. Very Kirstie Alsop.  You already have a good brand name...  MOOMINMUM!

Lesley, AKA Mrs Tiggy-Winkle!...  you really are under the weather hun.  Poor you.  Bless you for taking your SD and GD out trick or treating though...  in the cold and rain when you are poorly.  Good karma coming your way I hope.  

What's happened to Fififi?!  Hope you are ok lovie?

AFM...  initial consultation booked with a new clinic for next Wed the 7th of Nov.  I'm feeling a bit more positive about the change of tack.  Upped my supplements... and got DP on a 'Wellman Conception' daily tablet!! It can't do any harm.  I keep having to remind him to take it though!  Imagine if we had to rely on men to take the contraceptive pill in our 20's?!  Oh the irony 

K xx


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## MJ1

Hi Ladies,
Can I join you. I am 'over 40' as you can see by my signature, had 4 failed IVF cycles and have been trying to conceive for 4 years. Never ever fallen pregnant! 

Partner and I wanted a year out after 3 tx's last year.That year is coming to an end after trying naturally. We are debating IUI. Anyone recommend it?. I know that the chances are lower than IVF.  I can't see myself going through another round of IVF, due to emotional and financial reasons, it is just too distressing.  

Our last IVF cycle last Christmas was the best, we had 11 eggs collected, double amount from any other cycle. 8 fertilised and we got to day 5 transfer with 1 early blast and 2 morulas put back. It would have been the perfect Christmas, but my test day on Boxing Day proved negative.. devastated.... so here we are another year older and contemplating what to do if anything? Any advice greatly received. 

Hugs to all
MJ1 xx


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## Sushi Lover

MJ1... of course you can join us!  The more the merrier.  Welcome.

Poor you, looks like you've been in it for the long haul by reading your profile signature. Last Christmas must have been truly awful for you.  I've never been pregnant either, so I know how you feel.  So have they found any reason for the negatives from the immune tests etc.?  Or are you getting the 'old eggs' lecture like the rest of us?!  I don't know much about the Intralipid infusions...  is it meant to improve chances?

On the plus side..  it does sound like you are getting closer each time though...  your last try was had amazing results!  Were you on the cyclogest, steroids and clexane afterwards?  Maybe you have an implantation issue?  I see your lining wasn't great on your 3rd try.  Was your lining thick enough on your 4th?

Tried acupuncture?  What supplements are you on?

Sorry for all the questions!  

As for the IUI, I've tried it 3 times, as you can see from my signature.  I've had a BFN each time though hun.  So I'm not really the person to ask to be honest.  Yes, the chances are a lot lower than IVF as you've said.  I think people usually start off with IUI and move onto IVF if it fails, not really the other way around.  It's a difficult one.  It is cheaper and less evasive.. but you still have all the stimulation injections to do, just no EC or ET.  You also still have the emotional strain whilst waiting for the OTD I'm afraid.  Plus don't have the added value of PUPO!  Maybe the other girls have an opinion or a have heard more positive stories?  My experiences aren't ones to get excited about!

K xx


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## MJ1

Hi K,

Thank you for your response. Well yes I have been through the mill a bit, much like you too. 

No known reason why I cannot fall pregnant, hubby all ok too.  My immunes test came back as higher than normal NK cells but they were not the ‘baddies’ so would not have killed off an embryo, but I did do full immunes on my last tx, clexane, steroids etc.  

The infusion I had last August was also to dampen down the NK cells in a more natural way, and then we tried naturally for a couple of months but to no avail.  

Yes I have had lining issues in the past, my first ever cycle in early 2010 it was perfect! 9mm. But has gone downhill from there. But they did address this on my last go and I was given Vagifem to help, I think it got to about 6.8mm so they went ahead. I do have very light periods so I think naturally the lining is an issue, so no matter how many cycles I have it won’t work if the lining is thin….

I did try 8 months of acupuncture from March last year to October, then I had a failed cycle in October, so don’t think that worked for me either…my lining was thinner than ever hence the abandonment. 

Sorry to hear that your last IVF was unsuccessful, it is heartbreaking, the last time just about knocked me for six, plus my Dad had a heart attack on 12th December and the day he was rushed to hospital I was having my EC. He did recover after a quadruple heart bypass operation so it was an extremely difficult time, trying to be calm on my TWW.
I appreciate your honesty and experiences. Yes IUI is usually done before IVF but we were never offered that, prob due to my age they wanted to start me on IVF straight away. 

What are your next plans, which clinic are you changing to? 

MJ1 xx


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## fififi

Hi ladies ... hope the sunny weather helping - though it's bit cold!!!!

lesley - hmmmmmnnn I know the GP said I was infectious for first three weeks and during that time we were in contact lots but didn't think not to breathe over PC!!!!    
Hope you feel better soon and manage to stay indoors for next few days     - honey & lemon seemed best thing (with drop of whiskey too now you're off the drugs!) Did you dress up to trick or treat?!!
I'm amazed you have time for hedgehog sanctuary as well as all the other madness your life seems to involve. Must be good to know that your skills are recognised by local vet - even if it does make life that bit more manic.

Mj1 - hello & welcome! I eventually managed to get DD from IUI cycle aged 38 (4.5 years TTC with about 6 IUI cycles during that time) but no success in the 3 cycles we did subsequently (age 40/41). My current consultant felt that IUI was bit of waste of time after 40 and that IVF/ICSI more likely to be effective. That said I only ever took clomid for IUI so no injections and equally as I've unexplained infertility and had several early mc I think I may have an implantation issue. But never really been told that's what could be problem.
If you feel that's better than just trying naturally then it's probably worth a try - it's important to know you've tried all options possible and just "doing something" proactive might be all you need    

kirsty - wow, you are the queen of posts! I'm doing ok thanks and appreciate your kind thoughts  
Hope your appointment at new clinic goes well on Weds and you get the answers you need to help you figure out what next. Taking the Wellman vitamin seemed to help my DH and also he has 1000mg of Vitamin C daily - both together have meant we've managed IVF rather than the supposed ICSI for last 3 cycles. (He is bit rubbish at taking them still, 1 year on!!!, but most days he manages!!!)

moominmum - hi there, glad to see you're feeling little more optimistic and the emotional knocks of IVF plus insensitive review are becoming smaller bruises. I know you weren't happy with current clinics review but what have they suggested you do next? Have they recommended any changes to protocol etc?
It's a dilemma about DHEA as I also thought it helped egg quality as well as quantity - but not done much research as yet. Perhaps hold off until you've spoken with another specialist? I'm going to ask about it at my review but that's not until 20th Nov but will fill you in when do get any information.
How are you getting on with seeing NCT friends? We had a 1st birthday party to go to on Tuesday and I started out all brave but ended up leaving after just 10 minutes cos it was just too much to see everyone else with their 2/3 children. My friends have been ok about it and several sent me a text that night to send hugs but it's just all so painful right now and no matter how nice people are it can't change fact that they have babies and I don't. The secretary at my work bizarrely helped a little on Weds morning as quite out of the blue was telling me how she'd had IVF 17 years ago to get her daughter and had desperately wanted a sibling but never managed it. Yet now her daughter has said on several occasions how lucky she feels that she is an only child cos compared to her friends she has far more attention from her parents and has never felt like they didn't have time for her. (Weird how this lady suddenly told me about that just when I was needing that sort of emotional help? - just wish my guardian angels could organise a baby for me next time rather than helpful people!!!)

salad -     - it's still early days and I too am finding it very hard to come out from dark cloud that been cast over us by the horrible news we all had. Being busy at work and moving house will at least occupy your thoughts and hopefully once you're into your new house you'll have lots of new things to enjoy and distract you further. From experience I know it's also pretty tough moving house right now too as you'd probably hoped one of the rooms was going to be needed as a nursery. That sadness is going to take a while to disappear but it will, and what's more you might just be one of those people who the saying "new house, new baby" applies to. (I miraculously was!!!! - and now still wonder if we'd be better spending our money on moving house rather than TX!)
Take care of you - and let yourself have time to be sad and grieve what you've lost. You've had a tough time of things    

hopeful - I really admire your ability to be doing so much right now. I've never managed to study and work but from friends have seen how tough it is. Plus even just being away from a normal job for a short time makes it hard going back you've had to go back to so much. Remember to try and get some relax time too cos you certainly need it. Will hope that destiny has created this madness for you so that one day soon you get to enjoy life even more than you could have imagined     
PS. Glad the clinic are seeing you again

cornwall -I took drugs similar time to you (I think) although I had spotting from 4 days after ET. My AF started 2 days after stopping progesterone and was really heavy for 2 days, normal for 1, then have had spotting for 5 days now. Am pretty sure it's normal as body needs to recover from the drugs and they take a while to get out of your system - hence most clinics want you to wait for 2 AF before starting a new cycle.
Think your 6 cycle package sounds brilliant. That makes it much easier to know you've got those cycles there if you want to do them. Plus the bonus of knowing it's in the clinic's interest to get you pg quickly will help PMA. Hopefully they'll get rid of you next cycle    

cooljules, dillydolly - hello, hope this week gone a little better for you   

AFM: Had long week but surviving, just. My cough finally bit better and taking the last of the antibiotics today. Still feel physically very run down so hoping to have a quiet weekend. My return to work went ok - I teach Spanish part-time at a primary school and it made me feel much better to have lots of kids say they'd missed me and were glad I was back. Quite funny that lots of them told me their teacher had told them to be extra good as I needed "looking after" for a bit! Although I'd not told many staff at work about IVF they'd guessed but in a way it made it easier and I was surprised at how many people genuinely seemed worried about me.
Have big hurdles to get through next week as Friday was the due date for my twins (mc in April) - still very low after BFN so think this is going to be very hard especially now the light in the tunnel has totally blown out as we're not able to have any more TX. Find it so hard to understand why my twins aren't still with me and why "life" didn't give me some new joy to compensate when we cycled in October.


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## Sushi Lover

I think we've all been through the mill MJ...poor us! Thank goodness for this site.  It is heartbreaking every time a treatment cycle fails I agree.  I think only the women on here that have been through similar experiences know exactly how we feel.  Other people say they do, but they don't.  Even our hubbies to a certain extent.  Yes, they are upset as well when it fails, but their bodies aren't pumped full of drugs with their hormones raging!  And to be honest, they only have to do a sample in a pot!  We go through tons more.

Your immunes sound ok then.  I'd be inclined to think the same as you about the lining.  It does sound a little on the thin side.  I think my clinic ask for it to be 8mm before doing an egg transfer.  I've had oestrogen tablets to plump mine up in the past...(progynova)..  I haven't heard of Vagifem, but it sounds gross!  haha.  Is that oestrogen as well?

It's a shame acupuncture hasn't helped your lining, because they do say it can help.  Did you go to acupuncturist that is experienced in fertility?  My Chinese lady is brilliant.  Really helped my lining and circulation in general.  I don't suffer from freezing cold feet anymore, my tummy is warm and my periods are bright red and no clots (sry TMI).  Might be worth revisiting?

Your poor Dad... glad he's recovered.  All these things come at once!

I was advised against IUI to be honest...  because of my age and the small chance of success..  5% I think?  I gave it a shot as it was the cheaper option, but to no avail.  That's not to say it won't work for you though hun!

I think your next steps are to work on building your lining up... raspberry leaf before ovulation only, baby aspirin, high strength vit c perhaps?  There's probably a thread on here somewhere about it.  Please let me know if you find out about a good supplement to take.

AFM....  I've booked an initial consultation appt to see a guy next Wednesday at the CRM clinic in Baker Street.  My last clinic was local to me, but all the lab work was done at the Baker Street location as they didn't have facilities.  Anyway, they were so nice there, I always felt relaxed and the embryologists explained everything really well.  Then gave you their direct numbers to call whilst the embryo was in-vitro to see how it was getting on.  So we decided to transfer all our care to there.  I'm seeing a Mr Forman who's been involved in IVF longer than any fertility specialist in the UK (30 years I think).  The embryologist said he's brilliant and always has new ideas to try after failed cycles.  I feel quite positive again 

K x


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## Sushi Lover

Ahh fififi... there you are!  We've missed you.

I know, look at me!...getting right into it.  (work is a bit quiet so I've had time on my hands!!)  : 

Glad you're surviving the week.  Feeling poorly can't be helping your general mood either.  I'm pleased going back to work went ok as I know you were worried about that.  It's lovely to be told that you've been missed and now you are being looked after.

Gosh, next week will be tough for you hun.  Prayers are with you.  Have you decided not to try again?  Or is it the financial burden of more treatment that's the hurdle?

It's so hard to know why some things happen and other don't.  Afraid I don't have the answers.  Some better news has to come your way soon.  You deserve some good karma...  stay positive if you can.  I'll be thinking of you next Thursday.

K xx


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## MJ1

Hi fififi, thank you for your reponse and your experience with IUI and congrats on your daughter. Sounds like you have had a rough time   for next week. Although I didn't get pg on my last cycle at Christmas I still think that all the memories will come back and think about the awful cloud that hung over our Christmas last year  

Hi K,
Yes immunes are okayish. I think the Raspberry leaf tea might be an option will look into that. Also just started taking Agnus Castas too, I think that is how it is spelt. You also only take that up to ovulation. 
I did write to my consultant last week and he thinks that IUI is a sensible option (not quite sure why?). If we do go ahead we will look into it more in the New Year and go and see him then. Until then maybe I will try and enjoy Christmas, tea and pray alot! 

xxx


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## fififi

Thanks for good wishes mj1 & kirsty  

kirsty - glad to see you're being so proactive. When we changed clinic about 18 months ago it did really boost our positivity and from what I've read having PMA might not get a BFP but will certainly help. Hopefully your consultation Weds will go well and you'll be feeling all positive & ready for a new cycle after xmas.
We're stopping TX as financially we're at the limit plus emotionally we started TTC 9.5 years ago and, aside from the fantastic 18 months we had a break for (& had DD) our lives have been on hold ever since. Am hoping that despite the high impossibility we manage a natural miracle in next few months. At moment it's very raw and not sure I'm coping well with the decision but am trying to accept it.

mj1 - I'm pretty sure the success rates with IUI, natural and IVF are all pretty similar for over 40s. From what I've been told IVF is seen as better as it's "quicker" because the stronger drugs cause more follicles to grow and therefore possibility of more eggs - plus you know for sure if there's an egg or not. On a natural cycle over 40 it's likely that an egg will only be produced every 2/3 cycles so even with regular periods you only get an egg 4/6 months every year. With IUI on clomid they aim to get 2 follicles rather than just the one but it's pot luck whether those follicles have eggs or not - but still, to my mind better than just trying naturally.


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## MJ1

Thanks fififi. I was on clomid for 6 months before I tried the IVF route and had to come off it the last month due to cronic migraines so that was not a good option for me. 
Hubby knows that I don't want to go down the IVF route again but he wants us to try something, less medicated and controlled.. rather than just keep trying naturally this seems the next best option. I know the chances are slim but it is something we have never tried before.  
I know that we both feel of we have done evertyhing in our power to try and have a family then at least we can walk away knowing that we did all we could.  
I know where you are re being raw as I feel that the last 3 months have been hard, it is getting to the end of the year that we were 'relaxing' and I want to know what to do next... this infertility lark is a nightmare and wouldn't wish it on anyone..
MJ xx


----------



## LellyLupin

Wow reading all your histories I don't feel I have the right to feel as fragile as I do, I take my hat off to you all.  

Hi MJ1 I have never been pregnant either, I really hope this Christmas is happier than your last one and everything doesn't come flooding back, so glad your dad is ok now  

AFM My best friend just text to say shes been to her 20 week scan and shes having a little boy.  Mixed emotions all around, pleased for her and also that sick feeling of grief in the pit of my stomach.  I wish I could avoid all baby news but of course I can't, I will be dreading the birth and having to smile and coo over the baby, Fifi you were very brave to go to that party, great that the lady at work cheered you up though instead of upsetting you with thoughtless comments like most people do.

Kirsty your new clinic sounds great keep us posted on his new ideas xx

Hello Moomin, Jules, Sally, Hopeful, Cornwall, Lozster and anyone else I have missed xx


----------



## hopeful68

fififi - i think i am busying myself so i dont have time to dwell!! it has certainly helped me get back on track mentally!! still physically recovering - gone a bit anaemic!! been doing in depth patient assessments and was told by class mate i was anaemic - harly suprising after 2 wk bleed and mentally said no to supplements for a bit as that was tratmetn land and i wanted to step away, i think i will have to go back on them though!! also potentially mildly underactive thyroid, which i understand can affect fertility, so after clinic chat i will be off to GP for a check or 2!! may also go back to reflexologist for a bit of reorganisation internally!! - cheaper than accupuncture!!

MJ = welcome!! i cant answer your questions. i think i would tend towards IVF at our age so you know you have eggs and fertilization. i think we should all be taken to blast with old eggs (to avoid my issues of empty sacks!!). IUI is a bit more hit and miss as you dont even know if you have had an egg released for sure or that it fertilised!? - my humble opinion, no expert off the back of one cycle!! i can understand the funds issue though as i cant afford another round unless i win the lottery - but then i dont play it so no chance!! the only other thing to consider is doner egg - not got my head round that so not expecting everyone can accept that either - a last resort!!

recent supplements potentially helpful for egg quality
Vit D, DHEA (get your own levels checked first as you may have enough), melatonin, spirulina - antioxidant and general multivits and omega. i guess i need to go shopping, i normally use simply supplements online! not found the melatonin yet!!

i hope you all have a nice distracting w/end and a some lightharted fun to lift the spirits and enjoy time with DH/DP.

Mxx


----------



## fififi

lesley - baby news and babies generally make for upsetting times, even more so when it's a close friend. It's horrible as impossible to avoid them and yet, no matter how hard you try, something inside just seems to twist and leave you feeling empty yet again.
Hope you're feeling a bit better cold/cough wise today  

mj - everyone is different yet we all need to know that we've done all we could to try and achieve our dreams. Your consultant wouldn't have suggested IUI unless he/she thought it was worth a shot

hopeful - hmmmm, me thinks you're in need of some TLC - start converting your kitchen cupboards into mini version of Boots and try to get some relax time when you're not at work  

Hugs to all and hope everyone has a restful weekend


----------



## MJ1

Morning all,

Lesleylupin, thank you for your kind words, yes my dad is on the mend now and hopefully we can all enjoy a better Christmas this year.

Hopeful68, thank you for your advice the more options and opinions can only make a better decision for me in the long run, true IVF is a better option but in the end where do you draw the line. I thought that third time lucky would be for us but no then one more go at number 4.... I believe it is a a numbers game but it plays with your emotional feeling too.

fififi, I think you have summed it up perfectly, everyone is different and only I will know when enough is enough and have to accept that I may never become a mummy  

Have a good weekend all
MJ 1 xx


----------



## hopeful68

MJ - i can understand the mental torture of playing the numbers game!! you always feel at somepoint it HAS to be your turn to get (and keep ) a BFP, but as you say how much ££, emotional turmoil, physical damage do you have to endure in the meant time. in some ways i am lucky that we only had funds for one treat, that is done now and i HAVE to get on. i am doing my follow up to see if there is an outside chance of natural and if there is anything i can do to improve that chance - but after 8 +yrs of trying i cant see how!! - grasping at straws (or supplements in this case!! ). 

Lesley -you can feel as fragile as you like. we all have those days without throwing in cycle emotions, so carry on venting - free therapy!! i can understand the emotions of everyone else having babies around you. i started trying and my brother's wife popped one out!! i got PG and MC and was told about brothers No2 on the way (during MC - so you can imagine my emotions then!!). i am in the office at work now rather than in the ambulances and it is assumed you are there as a female due to PG (which was true initially but not now!) not only am i fending off gossip and quesions but am comfronted by all the others happily PG with out trying!! having to do the 'Oh so happy for you' bit when you want to jump and scream at them is really hard!!  on another note, not read all the back posts but do you work with hedgehogs?? if so i have a few Qs!!

fififi: TLC would be nice. not got around to organising my pamper w/end yet. today is the first no bleed day so i can officially say i am done with the MC. i can now look to plan a pamper day - not sure funds will go to a w/end break! so i will be trying to sort that out next week and start doing some excercise!! - scales def going the wrong way at the mo!! 

certainly feeling more positive about myself/life, not bleeding anymore is helping me move on physically. certainly feeling i have crawled out of my depression. not 100% me yet but nearly. past crying now (hopefully, catches you out sometimes!!) was brave enough to triage a MC call at work today - been avoiding them incase it set me off!! also delt with a few depressed people and realise i am not that badly off really - puts life back into perspective!! (FYI i call handle for out of hours GP service too!! - add to my long list!!) 
on another topic, cant believe how cold and dark it is, will be lighting the fire tonight and snuggling down with DH,some plonk and rubbish TV!! A day off tomorrow - other than studying for my course!!!!!!
have a good one.................Michelle


----------



## LellyLupin

Wow does anyone else on here suffer the dreaded ex-wife syndrome?  Think I am going to blow a gasket soon  

Hopeful, I don't work with Hedgehogs however I have had about 10 of them so far so ask away.  I have had to learn about them as the local vet keeps referring people to me    My friend text me her 20 week scan picture - um thanks for that now I can't stop looking at it.  I know people are trying to be nice but seriously they do more harm than good most of the time, so I sympathise Michelle  

MJ I think its a numbers game too, I thought no 2 would be the one for me too xx

Fifi still coughing away and getting no sleep, did you get something from the docs for your cold?  Hope you are feeling better now.  Just been to the chemists for some lozenges and ended up spending £50 on stuff I didn't need, our chemist is like a little treasure trove with lots of useless but sparkly things in it.


----------



## Moominmum

Hi Ladies,

Just wanted to have a peak and wow is this group busy 

Will write something tomorrow as there is so much I want to comment on - you ladies are very special - and I'm busy baking (again) for some surprise visitors coming tomorro w for DH's birthday. Lesley and fififi, I must have caught your cold as well I am totally under the weather as well.

Hoping that today has been a little bit better for everyone.


----------



## LellyLupin

How I wish I could cook Moomin, I am just completely useless at it, I even once burnt a packet trifle - seriously    I hope you haven't got this cold the coughing bit drives you insane xx


----------



## Tiny21

Hi lovely ladies
Just bookmarking as I will probably come and join you when feeling little less raw, bfn today


Recognise a few names on here already 
X


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## hopeful68

Tiny, you found us! I would say welcome but that infers too much 'happy'! Sorry you have ended up here but you will get lots of support possibly some answers or info to take to the clinic. Most of all a place to get everything off your chest and out of your head!! See you when you feel a bit better!!  Michelle


----------



## Moominmum

Hi All,

Firstly, Tiny so sad to hear your news but of course want to say welcome to this group. I have found it really healing to have a place to have a rant in a group where people actually understand or where you can talk as many of us have not told many people what has been going on. Also, it is nice to have a group where we all agree that the clinics are wrong and not us 
Cornwall: all these IVF drugs mess up your body big time I think. I had my almost normal AF before OTD (timing actually as per my normal cycle) and since I have not had the same symptoms I normally have but according to those sticks I seem to ovulate as normal, but really I feel as if I have no control at the mo (as if I ever had any)...

Mrs Tiggiwinkles: how does one become a hedgehog expert? Sounds like fun though! Good with a break over Xmas to be properly prepared for whatever is next. Oh and I think your brother still in is demand in here  Oh and I really can’t cook, but I do it anyway. I read a recipe and then halfway through I “freestyle” as I cannot be bothered anymore. Sometimes it works and sometimes it, well, does not.

Kirsty: I have also upped my supplements and given DH some – whatever it takes!  I can only imagine the frustration when people ask about when you’re going to start a family! Interesting that you are going with CRM. I have looked at them as they seem to be quite “high-tech”. Will be interesting to hear more after your initial consultation.

MJ1: Welcome to this thread! Wow what a 2011 you had – no wonder you needed a break 2012. As for IUI or IVF, I think it depends on each individual case. In our follow-up meeting, the Dr said that our chances with 3xIUI would probably slightly higher than with 1xIVF and the total cost would be similar. Also, an IUI is less invasive and you don’t have to wait as long between Tx. I found the drugs horrible so I am not sure I could take another IVF round physically. I could definitely not be working and I really ought to go back to being employed (the lovely days of being a student are now over for good)...

Fififi: I am not seeing that many NCT friends at the mo. 5/8 have a No 2, one family has had a tough year for another reason so understand that a No 2 has not been a priority and another one is 10 years younger so not in a hurry. Well and then it is us who everyone knows had a mc last year. But I can’t really mix with them at the mo, but might join them for some Xmas kiddie theatre, but some of them seem to (according to sensitive me) just talk about things that suit a 3.5 year old and a younger one. So really, makes me feel left out. Interesting about your colleague. In one way, the family that I think seem to have the best life, is a family of 3 with a lovely daughter who is probably 10 years soon. They really are so harmonious and lovely. But really, it doesn’t change my feelings for wanting a sibling even if I know that we could have a great life as it is. Also, as a matter of fact, the happiest couple I know have no children at all and this girl has said since she was in her early twenties that she never wants any so I do believe it is by choice. But once again, still doesn’t change my hopes for a sibling for DS.
I am hoping that Thursday will be okay for you  

Hopeful: sounds like a really interesting job you have! And well done for taking the mc call. Must be tough.

Lozster, Salad, Cooljules, dillydolly and anyone I’ve missed: hope you are going okay.


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## Moominmum

Re screening - just found this in the news category http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2221189/New-IVF-screening-turn-fertility-clock-10-years-picking-embryos-likely-develop-healthy.html

/links


----------



## Salad4

Lesley - just had to post quickly (before bed) when I saw your post - yup - have an ex-wife syndrome (and she is the mother of my DP's son, just to rub salt in it).  It's much quieter now though - he just pays the money over and we don't hear much... I hope you're not getting too much grief - it's just too much on top of everything else we're having to cope with.
Sallyx


----------



## LellyLupin

Sally 10 years of jumping to her tune, good job the kids are fantastic.  Still if I had known then what I know now I would have ran a mile    Its hard to be faced with the fruit of your DPs loins when you can't conceieve your own baby isn't it?  How often do you see your SS?


----------



## artist_mum

hi 
just saw your string here - I had a bfn back in August after our first ever DE IVF.  Had had a surprise with my first ever natural pregnancy at age 45 the year before (but then m/c) which kind of encouraged us to go for it.  So now just looking at what to do next really & have just tested immunes (as I had auto immune condition previously)

Like lesleylupin we have a serious case of Ex Wife syndrome.  And yeah, that really can add stress to our life as if it wasn't enough of a challenge getting to having our own baby.  But SD and SS are both very lovely so we do have good times when they are here.

Well, good luck to everybody on here, and thanks to moominmum for setting this one up

Roxy x


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## Sushi Lover

Lesley....  I'm also in the ex-wife syndrome gang.  She phones my mobile at least once a week and leaves a silent voice mail....God know what she gets out of it?!  So boring.  They split up 2 1/2 years ago and we've been together 2 years and still won't let their daughter stay over or even meet me.  My DP has been waiting for a court date for 7 months now to get a contact order so the step children can stay every other weekend.  (SS is 16 so can make his own mind up..  but his mother is such a loose cannon he doesn't want to rock the boat!)  Until she meets someone else she just won't let go and makes all our lives a misery in the meantime.  I feel sorry for SD as she's only 10 and struggles to work out what's going on.  Misses her Dad so much, but only sees him during the day on Saturdays and it's not enough for either of them.  She's not brave enough to stand up to her psycho Mum and insist on staying with her Dad.  Although, I'm scared of the woman too so I don't blame her!  It adds more stress to my life that's for sure.  p.s. how did you burn packet trifle?!  The custard?  What else needs cooking?  Surely not the jelly cubes!  

Tiny21..  I saw your post on here and the Current Cyclers thread.  I really feel for you and am so sorry to hear your horrid news.  How are you feeling today now that it's a little less raw?  It takes a while.  I know exactly how you feel.

Moomin...  yes, CRM does seem quite 'High-Tech'... you are right.  The initial waiting room feels like something from a spa as well!  The people I've met there are so lovely and the embryologists know their stuff inside out.  I'll wait to see how the consultation goes on Wednesday before making a final judgement.  Will let you know how it goes.  Writing down all my questions to ask!  Thanks for the news article.  I'll ask him about it.

Salad/Sally.... How was your weekend?  The roaring fire, red wine and rubbish tv sounded lovely.  Did you watch Strictly?!!  Your job sounds amazing..  a real job. Not like mine in a bank! How brave of you taking a MC call.  That's brilliant.  Does it help ease the pain helping others deal with upsetting situations?  I agree that sometimes you have to put things back into perspective at times.  There are people much worse off than us.

Fififi...Good weekend hun?  Do you feel back to usual self again now?

Hopeful68/Michelle... Have you had your DHEA levels checked?  I was thinking of taking these, but haven't been tested yet.  Going to ask consultant on Wednesday about it.  Ordered my melatonin online.  AstroSupplements.com  ...it's American I think.  They had a good price for 3mg which is what I've read you need per day.

Artist_roxy...  welcome.  Wow, first ever natural pregnancy at 45 is incredible to hear about...  so sorry it ended in MC.  I can understand why that spurred you into going for it.  What did your immune testing show?  I'm thinking about asking for this.  Is it expensive?

Hello to Cornwall, Lozster, MJ, CoolJules, Dillydolly...  Hope you had restful weekends girls.

K xx


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## Tiny21

Hi girls
I will catch up more later but clinic have had a review cancellation for Friday! Wanted it quite quick but that has kind of surprised me but otherwise its December and don't want to wait that long so think we better take it! 


Is there a list of questions somewhere, I know there is a general list but any specific for us oldies? Or anything you think I should be asking, going to ask about egg reserves and quality and why we had such poor fertilisation, why we nevr seem to get to blast, short protocol v long protocol and at kind of stuff but what else might be good??


I have contacted a more local clinic to see if they now have donor sperm and what their results are for 40s. 


Part of me thinks keeping with the clinic that knows us is good but part thinks we need something really different Very confused. If our original donor was still available would feel pretty tied to clinic but he isn't as yet so no real ties. 
So confusing and we are happy with our clinic and they are pretty good but over an hour does take its toll
Any thoughts girls would be great 
Xxx


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## Moominmum

Hi Tiny,

Good Luck for Friday! Well the only think I can think of, with my limited experience, is to ask if they offer any pre-insem/transfer screening of the eggs. Otherwise it seems like the "easy way out" is to say that it is the quality of the eggs once you pass a certain age! 



Moominmum


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## Sushi Lover

Tiny21...  I'm sure there must be a list somewhere, but I'm afraid I don't know where.  Have a look at hopeful68's letter on page 2 of this thread.  You may get some tips from that.  I'd ask about ways to improve egg quality and quantity/supplements/Chinese herbs/DHEA etc.  Tests to check out immune system.  Different drugs/different protocol/different results?  Screening of eggs as Moomin said already.  Ways to assist or improve implantation/thickening lining. Can assisted hatching help?  Does freezing help or hinder in tandem with chromosome screening that was on the news article Moomin posted.

K x


----------



## Moominmum

Tiny (and everyone else with a follow-up consultation to come): general questions to ask if you haven't seen this already http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=261901.0


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## Sushi Lover

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=283000.0

This is good as well. "A Guide to Learning from Your Failed IVF Cycle". Very long though... set aside half an hour's reading and absorbing time!

K x


----------



## cornwall

Hi everyone,

Hope you all had a reasonably relaxing weekend. 

Thank you for all the responses to my question about AF. It's interesting that we have all had different experiences. 

I'm now preparing for my next cycle and hope to have ET in early December. Last time, I had 3 top quality 5 day blasts transferred yet got a very definite BFN. This time, I don't think I will be able to stay in Cyprus long enough to wait for blasts due to commitments back home so will probably opt for 3 day transfer. Reading through the forum, there are a lot of examples where people have had 5 day blasts and got BFNs, then had 3 (or even 2) day transfers and got BFPs. I'd be interested to know your opinions on this.

Regarding the ex wife syndrome, I am very fortunate not to suffer with this, and DH doesn't have ex-husband syndrome either. However, I did experience it all as a child and it was horrible. It has a dreadful, long term effect on children.


----------



## fififi

Just a quickie as in the middle of trying to do 101 things - will try & post tonight - but hi to everyone for now x

Tiny - just wondered if the review on Friday might be a bit soon. I know December feels a long way away but at the same time you're still under the effect of the hormones plus your emotions are at their weakest right now. Two weeks after OTD I'm feeling much clearer about what I want to ask and far less emotional - I know I would have not coped with review last week. Plus December is only 4 weeks away, so not really that long.
Hope I've not spoken out of turn but thought you might appreciate a little "been there" advice


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## Sushi Lover

Hi Cornwall,

It's really interesting what you say about the 5 day blasts versus the 2 or 3 transfers..  Lesley and I were discussing it the other day and thought we might have a greater chance if the embryos were allowed to go to blastocyst as we thought the eggs would be stronger and of better quality.  Maybe that's not always the case then and we can see from your experience.

Once again, there is no rhyme or reason as to why some cycles are successful and others not.  It really is the luck of the draw.  I wonder if it makes the slightest bit of difference to wait the 5 days?!  If the egg is viable and the embryo of good enough quality to progress, it will...  whether it's a 2, 3 or 5 day transfer!

K x


----------



## Moominmum

Kirsty and Cornwall: I don't think there is really a right or wrong. I personally (no science here ) believe that if there is a "borderline embryo" it probably has a greater chance in its natural environment. But if it is a strong embryo, it will be survive regardless - inside our outside. And even if all looks perfect, you are in great need of that LUCK that everything else will be on your side. My humble thoughts, not based on any research just adding all I've read and heard together. 

My experience is that you can gave grade 1 embryos in the early days that, like in my case, by day 4 will stop dividing/slow down considerably. This is I suppose where this much wanted pre-screening would help!


----------



## Tiny21

Thank you everyone, will start reading and collating a list! I will catch up with you all soon too  , just in a bit of spin about review now! 

Fiffi - I am honestly not sure if Friday is too soon, it was sooner than I hoped but then mid December is further away than I hoped! Almost don't want it dragging back up again near Christmas but totally understand what you are saying about Friday and please be honest!  AF might have reared ugly head by then too as stopped drugs today. I can't decide, it does feel quite pressured to get head around it by then and we need to arrange some care for our little boy as our clinic is a long way away and we have taken him before but reall want both of our attention on the doc this time and if I want AMH doing will have to get there earlier than our appointment as they send that off with a courier, I think I want my AMH results, had them done before and were as expected with my age but can't remember what they were. Seems silly not to get that data. Oh, not sure but Dec 14th seems a very long time away. At least we would be able to make some plans as if we cycled again I guess late Jan/feb would be earliest and we want to investigate other clinics. Even toyed with going abroad but I just can't get my head around the logistics of it all! Especially with a little one?  Sorry, clearly my mind is a mush at the moment! But helps to get it out there   

This is a fab thread to be on  
xxx


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## Moominmum

Tiny: just a quick note that we had our follow up one week after the BFN (confirmed by the clinic) and although I felt it was what I needed at the time, afterwards I think it was too early. As the I was still very hormonal I feel that I didn't "put pressure" on the consultant when he answered my questions vaguely. I did have a long list of questions with me, but when he said something I don't expect/wanted to hear I was not as "pushy" as I would have wanted to be. Just my experience. On the other hand, had I waited much longer I would have gone bananas due to a spinning head! Ideally there should be two follow ups


----------



## Tiny21

I agree re the 2 follow ups - my head will probably spin until have asked some of my questions but you are right might not have brain resource to ask sensible follow up questions, I guess can always ring up afterwards. The trouble is there are never definite answers are there and that's what we all want.


----------



## Moominmum

I think that the main difference is that when an answer was vague, or more as I felt leaning towards "your eggs were cr*p", I would have asked if he was sure that was the case or if he just didn't know and point towards research/articles that supported the "unknown" part of the whole IVF/ICSI process. I think.

The issue I have now afterwards is that I find some of the consultant's comments contradictory which I would have pointed out had I been stronger emotionally and also I would have been stronger in asking him why he did not believe in certain research findings.


----------



## cornwall

I'm not having a follow up but, if I was, I think a week after would have been too soon. I agree that two follow up consultations would be a good idea. Another possibility is to write to the clinic to ask for further information after the follow up (or write before the consultation).  Getting a reply in writing means you can read it through when you are ready.


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## Tiny21

Oh, I am so confused now! Might ring and see if any appointments on my working days in next couple of weeks and maybe I could swap my morning off or something! I know what you all mean though.x


----------



## LellyLupin

I haven't gone for mine yet I just can't face it and am leaving any thoughts of doing IVF again till after xmas.  I think the amount of drugs built up in my system sent me quite depressed after I got my BFN, so I want all of it out of my system before I make any further decisions.  I hoope you get some good answers Tiny and are strong enough to take everything in  

On the 3 day versus 5 day debate I think next time I would ask for 5 day transfer, as I was told that if they don't make it to blast they were never going to even if they were put back at 3 days.  

Hi Roxy wow a natural pregnancy at 45 well done you so sorry it ended as it did but at least you know your body is capable and that can only be good news xx I only wish we could try natually but we have antibodies due to DP vascetomy reversal  

Kirsty poor you   I started off with an exwife who left my DP but didn't seem to want anyone else to have him.  We had a nightmare at the beginning of our relationship and I inherited a 1 year old and a 5 year old which was a bit of a shock.  EW still controls our lives a decade later, but that is mostly because my DP is such a wuss when dealing with her.  I have never met her in all this time and I have zero desire to do so as what I think will be plastered all over my face.  So far the poor kids have had 11 new homes, 2 new 'fathers' and 8 new siblings.  Me and DP are the only stability they have had in their short lives, and I am surprised they are as secure as they are, however we made a conscious effort to never speak badly of EW and her antics in front of them.  We never row in front of them either,  and we always show each other affection in front of them.  Saying that it has been no walk in the park for me and I have had to really work at being a good stepmum, and a lot of the time my health has suffered stress wise while the EW winds my poor DP up, and I am powerless to help as she holds the trump cards.  On the plus side me and my SS and SD are incredibly close and very loving with each other.  Would I do it all over again - like hell!! 

On the trifle front I burnt the custard and I messed up up the jelly, because it was jelly crystals not cubes so you have to put cold water in first - oops - so I ended up with water with jelly lumps floating in it.   

Hello everyone else hope you are having a good bonfire night xx


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## artist_mum

hi

Lesleylupin, you sound like in a similar place to me with the EW (they were finished/separated before we met, she wanted it over, she doesn't want him with anyone else even though she is with someone, we don't badmouth her although she refuses to meet me, she behaves unhelpfully and verbally abusive towards me etc etc).  Like you we try really hard to make this a place the kids can relax and have some peace and like you, I love the relationship we have and I love the kids.  They were 6 and 9 yrs when I met them. So I applaud you for what you do!  I know how hard it is and what a thankless task it can seem at times.  Like a whole lot of mothering without actually being the mother  .  Like you, I don't know if I would have done this if I had known how much stress she was going to cause.  It is really hard sometimes, especially now that the kids begin to understand stuff.  I completely know what you mean about the power these women wield. Oooohhh it makes my blood boil!  
Regarding your own journey, I think you are wise to take it slowly until you feel ready and then I really hope you can get pg on the next one.. sounds like you deserve it very much.
PS well done on the trifle, that really is quite an achievement  

Cornwall you are right - it really affects kids.  I also was brought up in a divorce situation.  I think that is why I feel so protective towards these kids.  Anyway, good luck with your upcoming cycle  

Kirsty - phwoar the EW sounds like a right 'mare.  Poor you, it does seem so unfair when the stress of this rollercoaster journey is enough to be going on with - without EW antics.. aargh!  Yes, on the immunes - we have been to ARGC in London for testing.  It was £805 (= v expensive  ).  I think it is cheaper with Penny in Athens but i do wonder once you add hotel, flights and general aggravation for going abroad.  Anyway because I'd had M.E. & also not conceived during my younger years at all, I always had a suspicion that these were related.  Results show borderline thyroid (GP says it is within normal margin, ARGC says just outside so will retest) and one of the NK cell tests was 18% (should have been 2-12%).  So am doing monitoring cycle with ARGC and wait to retest those 2 things later.  Then see what to do/when etc.

Tiny - good luck with your decision about timing, i just don't know, I guess you need to work out how you feel.  Easier said than done when you are all hormoned up!

Quick question - did somebody write on here about DHEA?  I was wondering about that today. Has anyone researched that/given it a go?

Well I can't find a bonfire/fireworks emoticon but happy 5th nov to everyone  

Roxy x


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## Moominmum

Lesley: so funny to read your trifle story. I agree with Roxy that that is quite an achievement!  

As for all the EW stories - sounds awful! I have to count myself lucky that DH and I have no EW or EH around. Life is hard enough. Well done all of you who cope!  

Roxy: I think there are some DHEA users here (or am I wrong?). I had some delivered yesterday as I am bulking up my pills supply. I just ordered some L'Arginine as well to add to the cocktail...


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## LellyLupin

I am nothing if not skilled in the kitchen  

Moomin it does add to the stress when you have to consider other people, its a bit like the Diana situation only instead of ' there were 3 people in our marriage;  its about 20 for me cos we have to consider whats going on in the kids lives too, grandparents, stepgrandparents, stepfathers, stepsiblings etc as it all has an effect on our relationship, whatever EW decides to do affects everyone else.  For instance when she met her new man she moved the kids way out into the sticks so it takes an hour to pick them up, even though we had moved closer to be with them.  Also in winter I stress out each time DP goes up there cos they usually get snowed in and the roads are trecherous.  The best one though was when she ran her last man over in the street and left him for dead. My DP had to go and search the roads in case she'd killed him, we seriously considered going for custody of the kids that night.  I could quite cheerfully throttle the woman.  Roxy I feel your pain as a fellow SM the power these women have over our men is immense and it intensifies if you get an unstable one, I often wonder if I did fall pregnant what effect that would have on her and if she'd go even more out of her way to distress us  xx


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## Moominmum

She did WHAT to her last man?   I thought that EW meant Ex Wife but surely in your case it means Evil Witch?  It must be tough for you (and DP) but I cannot stop thinking about the kids, how they must suffer. Gosh!


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## Tiny21

Hi again
Decided to see if can delay review, also trying to get AMH done locally if that's at all possible? 
Been on the clinics own board and got some great advise and considering moving within there group so great advise from my 'faceless' friends again   


Well try and catch up and start to get to know you all   


Xxxxx


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## artist_mum

Lesley - Wow, the EW sounds like an extreme case.  As Moominmum says so eloquently:  .  As you know by now, whatever you do you can't win with EWs.  After noting the antagonism & her threats to move away, we chose NOT to move closer but decided to share my house which is 20 mins away from the school etc.  We now get abusive texts every time there is an issue saying it is all OHs fault for not living closer.  LIVE CLOSER?!?!  Yeah.. right!  

Thanks Moominmum on the DHEA, i have only taken vits & folic up til now so maybe try to prepare a yummy cocktail too.  You are right about the effect on the kids, it is a tricky one because if they are young, taking them from their real mum is such a damaging thing in itself.  I don't know what is worse, to be taken from their mum or brought up in an emotional turmoil. It is sad for them & obviously can lead to damage later in relationship forming etc. We would have them all the time, 50% or once a week as we do now - what we don't want is to be available 'as and when suits' which is what she wanted written on the divorce paper  .  That way neither the kids nor us would know what was happening and when..

Tiny - That sounds like a plan.  And yes, aren't the faceless friends the best! 

Beautiful morning today, enjoy the day  
Roxy x


----------



## Tiny21

Making progress here, seem to have spent all morning on the phone to clinics!! Off to work soon so just a quick another question! 

Can you affect your AMH in any way? 
xx Might not be back on till tomorrow as off to my rock choir tonight, if I feel up to it, got a cold and little man poorly too, off to work now!!! Not looking forward to that but only a half day so hopefully the kids will be good! 
xx


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## fififi

Hi Tiny - hope you have managed to get a new date that's not too far away but gives you breathing space.

As far as I know AMH can't be affected by changes you make but I've known a fair few people who've got different readings just a few months apart. It's supposedly more of a fixed number regarding your theoretical egg count remaining - which after 40 is generally quite low. FSH also acts as an indicator but this level can fluctuate.
Your AMH should be used as a guide for level of stimulants and which protocol - but as it's unlikely to be high for you prepare yourself for feeling of uselessness when given a number. A good clinic will use the number to guide your protocol a poor clinic may well abandon you if the number doesn't fit their limited ideas.

Hope you feel better later and work not too stressful (what do you do?) - think a rock choir could be a great way of offloading stress right now if you're up to it. A chance to forget about everything else going on in your life


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## Sushi Lover

Hi everyone,

Moomin....I totally agree. Well put.  How did you know that by day 4 yours stopped dividing?  Gut instinct?  Yes, screening would help immensely.  It's on my list of questions to ask my new consultant.  (appt changed to next Wed 14th)

Tin21...  I see what you mean, this week seems too soon and mid December too far away!  Can you not cry on the phone and get an appt in a few weeks?!    Swapping your mornings off sounds like a better plan lovie.  Don't rush into the follow-up.  As the other girls have said you won't be feeling yourself again yet with the drugs taking time to get out of your body and the emotional strain still too much.

Lesley...  I'm tempted to do the same as you next and ask for a 5 day transfer.  At least you don't have the stress of the 2WW that way and know sooner than later.  Goodness, EW sounds like witch from hell!  She ran over her last man and left him for dead?!  Total psycho then!  It's lovely you have a close relationship with SS and SD.  My DP's EW is doing everything in her power to put SD off me and make out I'm the evil stepmother.  Filling her head with all sorts of rubbish.  She's now terrified of meeting me.  Makes me so cross I don't even have the opportunity to prove I'm a normal, nice person!  Mmmm, your trifle sounds amazing   I love lumpy jelly.

Roxy... Sounds like there are a lot of evil EWs around if you have one in your life too!  Best way is to not bad mouth her.  Rise above it.  The immunes are quite expensive then!  Worth it though.  I think I'll ask about that at my initial consultation at the new clinic.  I ordered some DHEA, but haven't started taking it yet.  Another question for the clinic!  I've read that some women have adequate levels and do not need the supplement.  You can get your level measured before starting it.  I believe it affects your estrogen/hormone levels so I wouldn't start messing around with them before knowing if your clinic approve.  I'm taking L'Arginine same as Moomin... plus Vit C, D, E, Royal Jelly, Omega complex with DHA, Vit B Complex, CoEnzyme Q10, Pregnacare Pre-conception Multi.... I'm rattling 

How are you today fififi?

Hello to Cornwall, Lozster, Salad/Sally, CoolJules, dillydolly, MJ, Hopeful68/Michelle...  xxxx


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## Moominmum

Wow Kirsty: we're more or less on the same then  But there can't be much more to take, can there?! I feel like a junkie being on Vit D + Calcium, Royal Jelly, Maca, CoQ10, Pregnacare Conception, Folic Acid. Mulitvitamin and then soon L'Arginine... 

My clinic aimed for blastos and up to day 3 many of the embies we textbook embies but by day 4 only one was a morula and one was pre-morula. That is after starting with 13 grade 1 embies day 1. So something happened between day 3 and 4...

Ouch for the EWs - ladies, stay strong!

Moominmum xx


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## ajw

Hi ladies, remember me  
Glad to have a new 'home'. Thanks Moomin  
Really suffering with a cold at the moment. Incredible really after all this healthy eating and supplements  
ajw


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## Sushi Lover

Welcome ajw!  Yes, we remember you.  Isn't that weird when that happens?  You'd think your immune system would be so strong with all the healthy food and supplements you'd never catch anything!

Moomin..  no, I think we've covered almost everything  ... only the DHEA missing, but the jury is out on that at the moment.  Oh, that's interesting about your clinic aiming for blastos.  How frustrating not knowing what happened between day 3 and 4.  More screening needs to be done, you are right.  So did you have the two left transferred on day 4 or 5?  To start off with 13 is both amazing, but frustrating too.  

K x


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## Moominmum

Firstly, ajw of course we remember you - good to see you're "dropping by". It must be that your body relaxes after all this stress and tension once a cycle is over. We are quite a few here with a cold a the mo!

Kirsty: well according to the clinic the only reason for what happened between day 3 and 4 is of course *drum roll* the quality of my eggs.

The frustration with 13 embies is that the clinic feels, and now we too, that if you can't get anything good out of 13 embies then you never will. But of course I don't think it is as easy as that  Many embies won't be good anyway due to the eggs' age and then a high dosage protocol is not great for egg quality. Also an embie is egg+sperm so you have that factor too. Plus you need LUCK. But it is hard when the clinic is quite negative. Sometimes I wonder if I disappointed them as up to day 3 it all looked so good. The morula was also "perfect" (they are not graded as I understand it) but the pre-morula was not as compact but still it continued to develop (which they said was a good sign for the morula they did transfer) but did not make it as a frostie.

So quantity is not the issue but really I don't care. I "only" want ONE good egg to fertilise and stay with me. I don't need hundreds of them. So really what I need is someone that can do advanced egg screening. It will be very interesting to hear what CRM says Kirsty! I have booked myself in for an Open Day at Create in Dec as they have a more natural approach and uses less drugs. We shall see...

I had the morula transferred on day 4. Not the pre-morula. DH panicked about the potential prosepct of having twins not really understanding the odds. I think I have forgiven him by now but, oh my, was I mad at him at first.


----------



## LellyLupin

I kid you not she actually ran him over, broke his ankle in fact.   I do worry about how the kids will be later on in life.  SS just wants to join the navy and get away, I worry more about SD as she still sucks her thumb (at 11) and has a comfort blanket, shes also very emotional.  Kirsty is right though you have to rise above it all and hold your tongue, I know it annoys EW that me and SD are so close so I do have a little bit of 'payback' in my armoury  ;  Roxy thank god you didn't agree to 'as and when' as thats what stresses me out the most, we have to dance to her tune and we never know when we are getting the kids, it all suits her and not us, its the source of a lot of rows between us.

Tiny I hope you did manage to change your appointment.  Funnily enough my clinic rang me today to see what my result was and let me know I can have a follow up appointment.  I just can't see the point, they really don't know why it doesn't work. 

Its funny how many of us have colds it must be all the ivf drugs its too much of a co-incidence isn't it,  I feel so weak too and my nails are really brittle, anyone else got that?  I have started to take multi vits and irton to build myself back up, you girls better not or you will be rattling from all the supplements you are taking  

Tiny I don't think you can influence your AMH its what you are born with xx  The rock choir sounds amazing I bet that really gives you a lift, me I couldn't carry a tune in a bucket but I would love to be able to sing (and cook )

Spoke to my pregnant friend today and managed to be very jolly about the new baby , really I should win an Oscar because when she went off the phone I felt so envious, I hate feeling like this its so not me at all. She said she doesn't feel connected to the baby and feels like she is losing her identity, it was all I could do not to tell her she should be grateful shes having a baby and there are millions of us who would kill to be in her situation, but of course you cant do that can you  

Hi AJW how are you doing  xx


----------



## ajw

Hi Lesley,
I'm ok thanks. Grasping at straws a bit as to what to do next. Like a lot of us on here. Having the period from hell too which has been going on for 12 days now.     Had a 4 - 5 day bleed just after treatment, which I thought was my period, then I stopped for a few days, then started again for 12 days up to now! Really painful too and clotty. For the first 7 days I couldn't sleep at night. Has anyone else had this?

Feel really sorry for your SS and SD and can see how that would impact your relationship with DH, but I couldn't help but laugh at the hit and run story! She sounds a total loon!! As for the pregnant friend - I just received an invitation to a baby shower yesterday. The same friend asked me to buy baby bottles for her on my trip to UK last weekend. Can you imagine me queueing up in Boots to buy baby bottles... She's 40 too, and wasn't even trying. So unfair... 

On the positive side I've joined a 'yoga for fertility' class and am about to book some acupuncture. I'm also trying a gluten free diet to see if it helps the endometriosis, but it's really hard to stick to. Am also on the royal jelly, pregnacare conception and maca! Sound like desperation?  

ajw


----------



## Coolish

Hi AJW - sorry you're having such a bad time with your period. The last 3 BFNs I had a fairly normal (if you can call it that) period, but last year after my first DE IVF it was horrendous. It was really heavy and painful for about 5 days and then went away. About a week later it came back and was just the same - painful and heavy and lasted about 5 or so days. Ibuprofen wasn't even touching the pain and I felt really weak and dizzy. I don't know why it was so different as it was a borderline and dropping HCG count, which was the same as my BFN last week. I think sometimes your body just wants to scream arrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhh, just like we feel like doing!


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Moomin*... glad you did that drumroll before announcing that inevitable line! I would never have guessed otherwise  Doesn't it get boring hearing that?! It is difficult to deal with when the clinic negative. I've heard that clinics in the U.S. are sooo positive "your eggs look great"... "you are doing so well"... "we WILL get you pregnant" ... etc. etc. What a breath of fresh air that would be.

Yes, I'm hearing you on the "only want 1" ... I'm not greedy either! Just one good quality egg, who cares about all the other sub-standard ones. I will definitely ask at CRM about screening. I don't know about Create.. will google it.

My OH panicked when they were about to transfer 3 at our first IVF attempt!! The Doctor started doing the 'multiple pregnancy lecture' (chance would be a fine thing) and he went white as a sheet!! Luckily it was too late by then to argue (already had feet in stirups!) Unfortunately none of them took, but surely it has to increase chances right?!

*Lesley.*.. Goodness, totally bonkers then! I try and hold my tongue at all times.. ever when the EW's mother called me calling me all the names under the sun. I just remained calm and answered politely.. it was difficult, but I felt I had the upper hand. They seem to think it was my fault DP left her. Rather than looking at the fact she is a total lunatic and he'd had enough!!

My nails and hair have suffered after all the treatment cycles. Apparently all the energy, blood, nutrients are directed towards the uterus and ovaries during the stimulation and other areas are left lacking for nutrients. So I've heard anyway. Could be total rubbish! I can't take another tablet.. as it is I struggle with the horse-sized ones every morning! Poor you with the pregnant friend.... I can't believe she said that about losing her identity and not connecting, do these women not realise how lucky they are? Incredible. I would have been tempted to slam the phone down.

*ajw*.... your period sounds awful. I've had some that are bad like that. I put it down to being a 'close call'. The lining was continuing to build up to support the embryo. Also, could your endometriosis be to blame? My cousin really suffers. She has periods that last for weeks and weeks, clotting and painful. Tried to conceive for 10 years and then fell naturally after a D&C. Has a gorgeous 3 year old boy now. The endometriosis came back though. She'll need the op again if she wants to try for number 2. Your 'friend' asked you to buy baby bottles?! Does she know about your IVF treatment? How insensitive!!! that really does beggar belief. I hope you said no! Keep going with the yoga and supplements and I hope the acupuncture works for you. Can't do any harm. It will help with your bleeding and endo. My painful periods, backache and clotting are gone now after 6 months of acupuncture. It takes a while so be patient.

*cooljules*... I think that makes sense with your heavy bleed that you were borderline. The estrogen contunes to build as the pregnancy continues and with that the lining gets thicker. Definitely close hun. Keep trying! I'm always even more disappointed when I have a regular period as feel I wasn't close at all on that attempt! Can't believe I'm disappointed not having a heavy bleed.. how ironic?! 

K x


----------



## fififi

Hi all ... been lots of posts here since I last popped by so apologies for lack of personals to all

Lesley - the EW in your life truly sounds like the worst kind, though the tales of her running one poor suitor over did make me smile!!! It is a relief the kids have DP & you to bring some stability into their lives.
Must be extra frustrating  for all of you ladies with a difficult EW having an example of someone everyday that doesn't treat their kids the way you would were you to have that joy for yourself.

Kirsty & Moonimum - you both sound very well stocked on vitamins & supplements. I need to get organised and figure out just what to buy to try and obtain that natural miracle. Will be asking my consultant about DHEA. Do either of you know what test to see if you need it requires and/or rough cost?
Hope things going okay for you this week  

Ajw - sorry to hear your AF still going on. Hope pain & bleed stop soon as it's horrible feeling like your body isn't being "normal"

Tiny - did you manage to get new review date? Hope cold eased off  

Regarding the day 5 transfer conversation - I've been fortunate enough to have blasts transferred on my last two cycles but this time that didn't help at all. Although initially I probably felt more positive once I started bleeding & got BFN it's left me feeling a far greater sense of personal failure than I did when I had a day 3 transfer as can't blame eggs as easily

AFM - still coughing (5 weeks on) but thankfully I'm more human than sealion now    Been busy with work this week which has left me tired but at least I'm distracted.
Unsure how I'll cope on Friday as that's due date for my twins - sadly they're buried at a natural burial site over an hour away from where we live so won't have time to go there during daylight. It's weird cos part of me thinks I should focus the day around them but then I also know that I'll be mush by the end if I think too much. So hard and so unfair that something that should be "natural" is such a difficult journey full of heartbreak and despair  

Hugs to all     & hope all those struggling with cold/coughs are feeling little better today xxx


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## Tiny21

Fififi xxx


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## MJ1

to you Fififi, will be thinking of you.
MJ xxx


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## Moominmum

fififi:


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## Sushi Lover

Big hugs fififi   xx

I believe the blood test is called Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) test. It's a steroid that than can be easier converted by the body into testosterone and estrogen.

I've found a sample of results.....http://www.healthtestingcenters.com/dhea-blood-test-explained.aspx

I will ask my consultant about it next week for definite.

K x

/links


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## LellyLupin

Fifi   xx


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## Sushi Lover

Thinking of you today fififi..  I hope you find the strength you need to get you through such a difficult day.

Lots of love and hugs coming your way          

K x


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## de_vi

I am still following what is happening on this thread and sending lots of      this way!! 
especially thinking of fififi  today!

Regarding supplements, incl. DHEA, mfmcmoo has put together this super-comprehensive list of supplements (and it completely matches my own research): http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=294994.0

(It lists all the detail, but a lot of the "basic" ones like zinc or myo-inositol and l'Arginine are all in the Vitabiotics Pregnacare Conception - all in one daily tablet - so even though the list is very long it doesnt mean you need all these separately)

  and have a good weekend all of you brave and strong ladies!


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## Moominmum

Quick q: I and another girl have been trying to meet up for a long time with our families. We come from the same country and have a mutual friend who put us in touch. Her DS is about a year younger than my DS. I know realise on ******** that she is preggers again, and probably quite far gone. At least enough to show and to be public about it. I really don't feel like meeting up anymore  What do I say? Also, I have already said Yes to their pre-Xmas do.

Not only is she younger than I am (about 10 years younger), she is also already practising the profession I want to get into and have retrained. Why am I always so slow to do things?!


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## LellyLupin

Thanks De-Vi thats very useful - how are you feeling? 

Moomin does this friend know you have just bee through IVF, if not I would explain that you feel pretty raw at the moment and just can't face it, I am sure she will understand.  BTW what country are you from?

AFM I have another hedgehog, maybe my destiny is to be a hedgehog mummy  

Fifi hope you are doing ok xx


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## Tiny21

Moominmum, tricky one, I agree if she knows just be honest, if not you may just have to make something up or just keep delaying till you feel more able to cope, could you tell her? 

Lesleylupin   hedgehog Mummy. 

will be back later. xx


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## Sushi Lover

De_vi....  such an extensive list isn't it!  I think it's unrealistic to take absolutely everything, but maybe pick and choose.  As you've said, a good multivitamin will probably contain a lot of them... but only the basic amount.  Everything I read lately about supplements seems to tell you to go for 'high-strength'..  which means a huge horse tablet that's so difficult to swallow    Nightmare.

Moomin...  tough one, If you can tell this woman about the IVF then I'd do what Lesley and Tiny suggest and explain it's too soon to be around newly pregnant friends.  You can hardly ignore the bump and she's bound to talk about it.  If you don't know her well enough to tell her, then make up an excuse..  You've double-booked, every so sorry, could you rearrange for another time?  I think that's what I'd do.  You may feel a bit stronger pre-Christmas to attend that do?  If not, cross that bridge when you come to it and say you or hubby are ill.  It's not ideal I know, but you have to be a little bit selfish and think of yourself lovie.  If it's too much to deal with, just make an excuse.  Don't put yourself down and think you are slow at achieving things.  So what if she's younger and is in the 'perfect profession'..  you don't know what goes on behind closed doors.  She may have a miserable relationship and be totally unhappy!  On the surface when people seem to have everything you don't, it's hardly ever the case.

Lesley...  another hedgehog!  How funny... is the local vets sending all ill and injured hedgehogs to your door or something?!  At least it's a nice distraction I suppose!  Chanelling all that tlc into a poorly animal.    Do you feel better in yourself now?  How's the exhaustion, weak nails, nausea now you a drug-free?  

Fififi...  hope you are ok?  Sounds a bit rubbish I know, but it's so difficult to find the right words.  

K x


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## LellyLupin

Thanks good advice Kirsty, especially the bit about all not appearing as it seems.  Look at my pregnant friend shes as miserable as sin and yet she has what we all want.

I feel much better mentally, still the same physically but only because I have a cough.  I feel happier than I did which I am glad about, I was a bit worried about myself for a minute there.  How are you Kirsty you always seem quite chipper?

Hedgies, yes the vet has me down as a carer    I think I have always channelled my maternal instincts into animals, at the moment its 2 horses, 2 hedgies and a dog, I guess its got to go somewhere.  I always feel that with animals you get what you see and they love you no matter what (well my pooch does the horses just use me for food lol).


----------



## Moominmum

Lesley, Tiny and Kirsty: thank you so much for your input.   I know I can pull out for now, I think I just was a bit shocked. I mean, I've actually never met the girl (!) as we're mainly in touch because we're both Swedish - yes you can now all read my posts in the voice of the Swedish Chef   - so I don't really "owe" her anything even if we've tried to arrange this for 6 months. She seems like such a career girl so I thought she would wait a bit to have another one being around 30. I've realised that what I fear most is the "so when are you having the next one?" question which will come. I have no good answer at the moment.

I've also agreed (long ago) to soon meet up with some other friends - two of them know about the IVF - but now I am not sure I can put up with it. I met these people through DS and now out of 7, 4 has had No2 and 1 is preggers, so only me and another (very good) friend who will get the "so when are you having the next one?" questions. I assume we both will pull out. 

I suppose I should be glad to not still live in Sweden as almost everyone there I know has 3 kids. It seems to be the norm. It is really "easy" to have kids in Sweden from a practical point of view. Long parental leave and guaranteed childcare within 4 months of applying for it. Childcare is also subsidised and capped (max £240 for a family regardless of how many kids you have (7am-7pm if needed be)).

I know I should be really grateful to have DS - and believe me I am - it just stresses me that not only does it seem unlikely (as it feels now) that DS will get a sibling, I also have to tackle the "what about No2?" questions way too often.

Thank you so much for listening to me ladies!    . Hope you all will have a great weekend.

P.S. Sorry for the very mememe focus


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## Moominmum

Oh forgot - Lesley: loving the hedgies "collection"!


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## Sazzmataz

Hi everyone, 
Can i join your thread? I was previously on the cyclers page I've just had my 1st IVF cycle but had my cycle cancelled a week ago.
Still feel quite gutted that i never even made it to ET!  But I do think that I should have perhaps prepared myself more for IVF. Although I do have a good diet, exercise & have taken a range of supplements for years for hormone problems. I was diagnosed PCO 10 years ago although all recent scans suggested it was non apparent but once I'd started my treatment my right ovary was showing signs of pco. I also have adenomyosis & mild endo so have been trying my best to self help with supplements, herbs you name it & anti inflammatory diet although very hard when you're a chocoholic! & boy have i hit the choccy since last week! 
Anyway after reading through the threads I've realised that there is a LOT more i perhaps should have taken to prepare myself as much as i could. I did take royal jelly & COQ10 but maybe not high enough dose & for long enough.
I've read *Agate's* thread & there is SO much more specific supplements to try.
Also *Moominmum* I read your recommendation of *Agate's* thread regarding when a cycle fails. Thankyou for hi-lighting that it was very helpful & I shall take notes for questions I want to ask at my follow up next Friday.
At my initial scan although showing adeno on my left side which they weren't too concerned about but did say my left ovary was behind my uterus! Something which didn't show up on a scan 4 weeks prior?! They also couldn't access this left ovary at EC which had 2 large follicles. I did get 4 eggs from the right but 1 abnormal fertilisation & the others just didn't divide by day 2 so a big fat nothing. Everything leading up to EC was extremely positive, bloods good, & a good response for my age, but there's that age question mark again & quality!
I do ovulate normally & have a regular cycle so wondering if a modified Natural cycle may be better? Has anyone done this? On my IVF i had menopur 300 from day 3 for 8 days, busserelin from day 2 then 2 ovitrelle on day 11 then EC day 13. Just wondering if & how a different protocol would be. Despite having sensitivities to meds i seemed ok on this protocol.

*Kirstlovessushi* have you tried the DHEA i see you mentioned? I'll try anything that will help.
Also has anyone tried melatonin? thinking of getting some.

I'm also absolutely dreading AF arriving!  Have felt so Pmt for last few days. After a cycle is Af normally earlier than usual? My lining was quite thick & with my adenomyosis it's going to be hell, i react to painkillers & come out in hives & the pain is worse than labour! 

*Moominmum* I totally understand your feeling regarding friend. I would make an excuse & cancel, sometimes you have to put yourself first. You've been through a lot so i think you need the next few months to be about you & to not feel bad about it.
I must admit I hardly bother with friends with children & family too. I do feel guilty about the family thing but it's been my coping mechanism for all these years since I lost my daughter. they seem to realise & understand & if anyone tries to push me, I'm off. We all have to cope in our own way & not feel bad about it!. 
*Fififi* Sending you lots of hugs   I feel your heartbreak  It's never easy & thinking of you. 
My daughter would have been 18 & I still find it so painful & am so difficult around this time.
*Ajw* Hope you enjoy the fertility yoga. 
 where have you found a class?

Sorry to have rambled on so much & thankyou you for listening.
Have a good Saturday everyone


S.x


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## LellyLupin

Hi Sazz wow you have been through a lot.    My cycle came a few days after I stopped the progesterone, it was pretty heavy.  You will feel better once all thats done with and the drugs are out of your system.  I went into a bit of a depression when mine didn't work and still little things (like a beautiful blue eyed child smiling at me today) can cause me to get that horrble pang, but I do feel a bit better now.  Are you not going to try again at some point? 

I too try to avoid the kiddie situation but my BF is pregnant and so are a few of my aquaintances so its hard to avoid.  I just try and plaster a smile on and sometimes that works.

Moomin I LOVE the Swedish accent, quite a lot of my suppliers at work are based in Sweden, and I look forward to dealing with them just for the accent.  My funniest story was when dealing with a Kersten by email I thought he was a female (as its a girls name here) and he thought I was a man, it was so funny when we had our first meeting together, we were both standing in reception for ages not realising we were there to see each other    Wow the Swedish childcare system is amazing we get nothing here in comparison.  I must admit I watch my workmates struggle to cope with full time work and kids and it looks very stressful.

Its a shame people aren't more understanding when it comes to one child families, people just assume that if you have had one, you can have another.  I often get the question of why me and DP don't have any kids together, I just say I don't want them as its easier and less upsetting for me to say.  I once walked in on my sister discussing me with my mum, and saying that I would be found dead with one of my cats eating my face if I didn't hurry up and have kids.  I don't even have a cat  

Hello everyone else xxx


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## artist_mum

hi everyone

just been catching up on all your posts after a tough week this end, didn't manage to get online much.  Gosh, everyone has so much going on and such tricky stuff to deal with.  Thank goodness for this place.

Fififi - I guess Friday was tough for you, my sympathies - I hope the coming year brings you new baby joy, albeit that you will not forget the babies you lost. 

Moominum - That 'why am i so slow to do things' cry is one i can relate with.  Yet probably it is just our own feeling that we are slow/running behind/not achieving the same etc.  Hopefully you are feeling better by now.  Echo all the other comments - don't put yourself through stuff if you don't have to... this is already hard enough.  Swedish huh?!  I can hear that lilt in your messages already    Thanks again for setting up this string, it's a nice place to get involved in.  What is the new profession you are training for?  I am trying to change career too & finding it is a lot, sounds like you are doing a lot too, with a DS as well.

Lesleylupin - made me laugh with the swedish supplier meeting - hilarious! Like you I get the animals thing & love to be around them. My dog goes crazy when she sees a hedgehog - do you have to keep them separate?  How lovely to care for them, funny little creatures  .  Glad to read that you are feeling OK on the positivity stakes even if the winter lurgy has got you, aargh!

Sazz - hello and good to find someone else new on here.  So sorry to hear you lost your little girl, I hope you can get things sorted with your tx, I am donor egg so can't really relate with the IVF egg collection bit, I was already too old by the time we started on this journey.  Best of luck with yours.

kirsty - how's tricks? Tiny, ajw, cooljules - hello you guys. 

AFM I've been having so much grief with EW issues that I went a bit crazy this week, trying to cope, trying to rationalise the situation I find myself in.  But I begin to feel a renewed sense that me & my OH need to keep moving forward and not get held back by others' stuff.  I got AF Friday (2nd one after failed tx) and am doing a monitoring cycle now.  Then we will have to decide what to do.

 to everyone
Roxy x


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## Sushi Lover

Morning all,

*Lesley*... Yes, I quite often find that things aren't always as they seem. And we never know what goes on behind the closed doors of the 'perfect couple/family' ! I've come down with the dreaded cold and cough now ... I don't get it? All those supplements and healthy lifestyle and still get ill?! Doesn't seem at all fair. Do I always seem chipper? Goodness, I don't feel it most of the time  Maybe I'm good at putting on a brave face and plastering on that smile as you'd said. Everywhere I turned at the weekend I was faced with a pregnant lady or newborn, and you get that tug on your heart strings. Sometimes that feeling of despair and terror creeps up on me when I least expect.. the panic of never being a Mum. I try and focus on the positives. That I'm so lucky to have DP as I went through a marriage breakup trying to conceive 7 years ago. Our relationship wasn't strong enough to withstand the pressure and emotional turmoil. The support I received from him was non-existent! He's now remarried with 2 kids and they live in the same town as I do!! I never thought I'd meet someone again and be happy. I did, so I try and focus on how lucky I am. So hard isn't it? How are you feeling today? Did your sister and Mum really say that? How awful! I bet you were really cross.

*Moomin*... Your English is absolutely perfect! Never would have guessed you are from Sweden. That's funny about the Swedish chef! No matter what situation we are all in we get insensitive questions. "when are you starting a family?".. "when will number 2 arrive?" There is no escaping it! Did you cancel the girl in question? When people ask, can you say.. "If we're lucky enough, it will happen" ... something like that? "whatever is meant to be" ... then change the subject!!

*Sazzmataz*... hey, welcome! How are you feeling hun? I haven't tried the DHEA as some info I've read say that you can already have enough of this in your body and do not need to add more. I'm also prone to cysts and it can aggravate them. The last thing I want is for my next cycle to be cancelled because of pesky cysts! So I'm going to ask my new consultant about it on Wednesday and I'll let you know the response. There is a blood test you can have to find about about the levels in your body. I've ordered Melatonin!! But take it just before bed as it makes you sleepy. Poor you with the painful periods... hot water bottle and a few days at home? Can you phone in sick? Once that begins you can move on a bit and start your recovery process. Until then you are caught in limbo a bit.

*Roxy*... not too bad thanks... cough and cold and it's a Monday so feeling a bit sorry for myself. Do you monitor your cycle with temperature and CM analysis? Or the ClearBlue Fertility Monitor? I've been using that this month and my cycle is all over the place... random lows, highs and peaks all out of kilter. Unsurprising I suppose, considering all the drugs from the month before. Takes a while to settle down. I read your last post as EW for Egg White (as in EWCM) not EX Wife at first and was soooo confused! haha. What a dope. Sorry to hear the Evil Witch is causing you stress, it's a nightmare isn't it? We are trying to plan Christmas and my DP's ex won't even let the children stay or come over to the house. He's contemplating doing present swapping in the flipping car! Ridiculous. We have been waiting for a court date for 7 months now  that's to get a contact order for them to stay every other weekend. It really shouldn't be this difficult. Once she gets a new man (although God knows who'd have her) it will be so different and she'll be dropping them off every weekend no doubt!

How is everyone else? Hello lovely ladies... *fififi, ajw, cooljules, Tiny21, de_vi,MJ1*.. I've lost track who else is on here? Just in case... big hugs to *Cornwall, Lozster, Salad, dillydolly* and *Hopeful*.

K x


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## Chandlerino

Hello ladies

OTD isn't until tomorrow but I don't think I'll be getting a BFP in the morning so am joining you with a heavy heart.

Have been thinking today - is it actually worth doing another IVF cycle - is it down to pure luck or is there something amiss that hasn't been picked up?

The one thing I do realise is that I definately have a progesterone problem as I've yet to have AF unlike my previous 2 cycles were AF arrived well before OTD.

I honestly thought that this would be it and never imagined that after 3 IVF cycles in 11 months I'd still have no take home baby.


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## dillydolly

Chandlerino

Speak to stepan or whichever doc you have contact with and see what he says

I don't think you are ready to give up yet!

Would penny have done anything different? I think it's just the IVF gamble, you did well to get 3/4


Were your FSH and LH ok?


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## Chandlerino

Penny suggested a mix of Gonal and menopur (LH/FSH)  but nothing much else other than a hysto. She felt that due to ovarian activity I still had a chance with my own eggs.

This cycle was good even though our 4th egg didn't make it to freesing the others were good. I think short protocol is better for me but maybe I need more stims. My LH/FSH levels were 6/6 in Mar of this year but haven't had them retested for a while - never had an AMH test either. My cons in the UK prefers to use FSH/LH evels and AFCs.

We have frozen sperm at Reprofit. I would keep going until I ran of eggs or it worked but I haven't got a huge pot of money. I really don't know how people fund cycle after cycle tbh.


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## dillydolly

Chandlerino

Speak to reprofit. I don't know if increased Stimms would help as you got 3 good eggs with the Stimms you had

I think it's just the gamble

My UK clinic want me to do array to  rule out abnormalities despite having no family history of this or of miscarriage but no other places have suggested this. My UK  say my eggs are old and this will increase chances but I need to produce 8 eggs to do array! Lol 

Did anyone suggest PGD/array  to you? 

Maybe you could ask about IUI and try that a couple of times less stress and a bit cheaper....see what reprofit suggest


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## hopeful68

Not been on for a while, i see a few more ladies have had to join us. sorry to see you here but hugs to you at you, and i hope like the rest of us trying to work out where we are going next you get some answers (soon)!!

not much changed here for me, been busy on my Uni course and work. now trying to work out how to fit the practical bits in my own time before assessments in jan - i have no time!!! 
Bleeding again, not sure if it is AF  (dippy week in my world - normally do several stupid things during dippy week hence the name!!) or if i am just having a bit more clear out!! fed up of it all now though!! (so is DH - i am sure he doesnt believe me that i can STILL be bleeding, i think he thiks i am using it as an excuse not to have a bit of 'fun' !!  - no such luck!   i have only just had a week free after 2.5 wks bleeding after stopping the botty bombs!! def going to need some iron!!

any how... homework to do and hubby to feed!!  take care, will do a proper post soon (when i get 5 mins)


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## Moominmum

Hi Ladies,

Firstly just to say thanks once again for all helpful input.  

Lesley & Kirsty: I agree with the “not appearing as it seems” and tbh even in some cases of what I see, I wouldnt want to swap with them. I suppose it is a matter of me wanting it all  

Sazz: you have been through a lot over a long time.    I know what you mean with thinking that you should have been more prepared. But I suppose, from my own experience, that the whole IVF thing is such a big unknown so when you step into that world for the first time, you spend all your energy to figure out what you are looking for in a clinic, understanding what the consultant(s) says etc. I found myself, during the cycle, to ask everything one step too late... And now, afterwards, I am on all these pills instead of before.  

Lesley: funny incident with your Swedish supplier   What do you do? What Swedish suppliers are there?   You hit the nail on the coffin regarding one child families – because we have one already (although no one really knows how easy or difficult it was for anyone else to conceive the first one) people automatically think we definitely want another one and that it is just to decide upon having another child. Can’t belive your sister discussed you like that with your mum. I hope you told her off!

Roxy: I have retrained in law but of course finding it hard to find someone who wants to employ a 40+ woman who speaks like the Swedish Chef  But I am sure I will get there. Is it the right thing? Dunno. But I’ve gotta give it a try at least. What are you trying to do?  

Kirsty: You are right, I should just say something like you suggest and I often try to. I suppose it is just now, and after saying it for a couple of years and some starting to talk about a No 3, that I can’t face saying anything. I am worried it will show what I really want. Also, I am worried that I will say something nasty back (being the “bitter woman”) like that I don’t want more because “ I don’t believe it is right if X” or “I want to be able to X” with X being something that the other person does/can’t do just to stop these questions coming. They never stop   I’ve just started using the Clearblue Fertility Monitor – easy to use once you remember to pee on the stick when you should   I can’t believe how regular I am – or seem to be – AF came bang on time after the cycle (so before OTD despite the progesterone) and it seems as if I’ll be having my AFs for ever but just with non-usable eggs. What’s the point with that?!  

Chandlerino: Please don’t give up just yet. I know it is easier said than done but please try. 3 tx in 11 months is incredibly well done – my hat off for you! I am exhausted after one so you must be a super woman!     

Dillydolly: May I ask what UK clinic that was? I produce plenty of eggs but apparently all are cr*p so I guess that some kind of screening is what I/we really need. If we can face it again.  

Hopeful:  you are so busy – how do you find the time? And re your AF/non-AF, that sounds like a pain in the a**e!  

Regarding EWs – I almost feel left out for not having EW dramas! I think though, from what I have read so far that Lesley’s one seems the most mad one. Really Lesley, your DP must be embarrassed to have been married to such a loony. I am glad though, that all your partners/husbands were lucky enough to escape their EWS and meet you lovely ladies instead !

Fifif, ajw, tiny, cooljules, de_vi, MJ1, cornwall, Lozster, salad and anyone I have missed – hope you are okay and big hugs to you all.   

Moominmum


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## LellyLupin

Hi Roxy no I don't have to keep the hedgehogs and the dog separate as I know who will come off worst  .  Its the only other animal I dare bring near the house as Suzy is so jealous she sees everything else off    She hasn't had a prickled nose yet but shes had a good look at the hedgehog house and examined the 2 babies from a safe distance.  

What has EW been up to this week, drives you nuts doesn't it.  I got SD on friday night to take to the school disco, only to find out she hadn't had a bath since Sunday night.  Her hair was stuck to her head with grease (shes going through puberty) and she actually smelled.  I had 20 mins to get her ready and I was furious    I couldn't believe EW would send her to us like that and that she herself thought it was acceptable. I was ashamed of her and I have had to strip her bedding and wash it.    Believe me you can't let EW win Roxy as its all intentional to make you split with DP, stay strong  

Moomin don't sweat the 'why am I so slow thing'  you are where you are so eyes front, don't look back its a waste of time.   I could say exactly the same thing as you I didn't get broody till I was approaching 40 xx  

Kirsty yes you do always seem upbeat.  I know what you mean about seeing pregnancy everywhere, that feeling does strike at the most awful moments, mostly when the girls in the office are talking about their kids, I feel so left out.  There are 3 of us with fertility issues in our building so we have formed our own Barren Club and talk about our dogs very loudly   My ex didn't want kids and made sure I had a 5 year coil fitted, we split up and within 6 months he had made his new girlfriend pregnant.  He wasn't pleased about it but hey she got a baby out of it.  I have seen his now wife and child around, it doesn't hurt so much now but it did at the beginning.    It must be so hard for you with them living in the same town    You are right about EW wanting you to have the kids when she gets a new man, thats exactly what our evil witch is like, she only doesn't want you near them in case they like you, be prepared for the mind poisoning and don't take it to heart.

It was my sister who made the cat comments, we haven't spoken for a year and a half (not because of that but you get the gist of what shes like). She has no idea I have fertility issues and neither does my Mum, they just think I am a career girl.

Hello Chandlerino sorry to see you on here chick    I was so hoping you would get your dream this time, I too think its just a question of luck as even in perfect conditions people are getting negatives.  xx

Hello Hopeful I am on iron tablets and vitamins now as I think the drugs knock the stuffing out of you, its definitely a good idea for you to get some if you are still bleeding.   (Kirsty gets some vitamins too for that cold and cough, proper vitamins not baby making ones  )

Moomin  don't we all want it all, me I want everything,  including a house with a long gravel drive, fountain and stables.  Never Say Never is going to be the name of my yacht    I am a Project Buyer for a Utilities Company, I shop all day for boring things like turbines, boilers, pipes, valves etc and the services to build plants that generate electricity and steam.  My Swedish suppliers are usually for electrical goods and special valves, my favourite is a guy called Wolfgang I just love his name, and I love how when they answer the phone they can flip to English in a heartbeat.  I know virtually no Swedish so I feel quite ashamed at the ignorance of the brits when it comes to a second language.  

I also used the Clearblue Fertility Monitor for a while, my AF is like clockwork too,  I felt so cheated when we found out DP had antibodies and it had all been a waste of time.  I am also having the 'whats the point of having AF' thoughts and even had a moment when I looked forward to menopause today    On the EW front count your lucky stars you haven't got one, they really do make life so hard, especially when you have to face the fruit of your DP/DHs loins on an every other day basis, you can't help but feel like the EW has one up on you when you can't produce a child of your own, you can almost hear her mind ticking over (or is that just my paranoia  )  My DP just thinks shes thick now and to be honest I can't imagine him married to her as shes not very bright.  However she is very pretty and her dad owned a pub so I can see the attraction for him  

Dillydolly I would be interested in the test for 'crap' eggs too as I seem to be able to produce an abundance of them  

Hello everyone else, this thread really was a good idea Mooms well done for thinking of it xxx

Much love to all xx


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## dillydolly

It was care that suggested array but no other clinic has mentioned it. If I go abroad I may do PGD but don't think I will produce enough to risk!

There are pro's and cons to the testing lark

I am quite happy at the mo just blaming DP for producing dodgy sperm rather than my wrinkled ovaries


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## Moominmum

dillydolly: oh good, I blame DH as well   (and the consultant for not getting that  )


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## Tiny21

Just a quick hello as really should be in bed and loads to catch up on on here! Will catch up soon with everyone xx


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## fififi

Hi all ... it's very late so can't write much but thought I'd better post before the thread moves on another 100 pages!!!

Firstly BIG thanks for all your support last week.
After spending about 2 hours crying on Thursday night whilst writing a "letter" to add to my memory box for the twins I got through Friday without too many tears. My DD was really sweet and tried her best to help me all day - though offering me 2 of her "babies" (dolls) to cuddle in bed that night was not really what I wanted!!! DH on otherhand managed to make me feel even worse by questioning why I was upset again and not understanding at all why I would be thinking about a date that lost its importance back in April. He doesn't mean to be unkind but him being from Mars doesn't help when I'm needing someone to share feelings with!

dillydolly/lesley - Care told me it wasn't worth me having array as don't produce enough eggs (cycles in last year have given me 1, 4 and 6) but embryo testing could well help if you are fortunate to produce lots. Though I'm not entirely sure if it would be of any greater benefit than just getting to blasts - unless you're in fortunate position of having excess blasts to freeze, but I may be wrong about that

lesley - glad you're sounding bit more healthy now. My cough is still there but I don't notice it so much now - perhaps I've actually turned into a sealion?!!!  
- well done you for helping SD go to disco without appearing so dirty. From colleagues it does seem that teenagers are a real battle to look after and are hostile enough to their real mums. You should be proud of how well you cope with looking after her. (And that to any other stepmums too - think your role is a really tough one and must be extra difficult knowing how much you'd love your own child too)

moom - hope you've managed to make excuses to avoid pg friend. I know we are really lucky to have been given a miracle already but it does mean our lives are even more closely linked to ones where people just pop babies out and we're expected to continue socialising as if it's all fine and have to ignore the fact that inside we're hurting so much.
I'm currently trying to work out how to avoid two of my sisters at Xmas - one who is expecting her 8th child the week before!!!! (no fertility issues in my family background - I'm one of 6!!!) and the other who was such a cow to me last December we've not spoken since - On hearing how much we'd spent so far on TTC she told me that I was obviously wasting my money and would be better off spending it on trying to make myself look better?!!! (I'm no model but not that bad.) Oh, and when hearing I was upset having got BFN told me to just "get over it and stop making my mum upset"! So it's going to be a fun festive time for me not!!!! If it wasn't for DD I'd probably not see either of them but since I've not managed to create any siblings I feel it's important she sees her cousins at Xmas.

kirsty - hope you get over cold/cough soon. Thanks for always writing such caring posts - you always give me a lift when I read them

everyone else, especially chandlerino, hope this week isn't too tough and bit by bit we get answers to our "whys?" and hopefully glimmers of hope again soon - big hugs to you all


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## Sushi Lover

*Chanderlino*.... you are very welcome to our thread that Moomin set up. I know it's far from the board you want to join, and having a heavy heart it totally understandable, but everyone on here is so supportive and I hope you get the 'pick me up' you need. I'm going to ask loads of questions about screening/chromosomes/PGD/PGS/Array CGH and Translocation Screening when I go to see my new consultant tomorrow. So it may give us all hope for the next cycle....or have you had all of these tests already?  p.s. my IUI and IVF cycles were half and half on whether AF turned up before or after OTD, I'm not sure there is any rhyme or reason to it. It's another question on my list. As for the money side of things, I think lots of people get into debt with cycle after cycle. Pay on credit cards, re-mortgage homes, take loans out. It's unusual to have a bottomless pit of money.... unfortunately 

*dillydolly*... going to ask about PGD and Array CGH tomorrow... I believe it's a good £2,000-£3,000 though. (CARE's website) Ouch!

*Hopeful68*... glad you are keeping busy with your Uni course and work. Distractions are great. Your hormones sound all over the place! Funny about DH not believing you  Isn't it nice not having to do those horrible pessaries though? Hate them!

*Moomin*... I can understand it gets more and more difficult to say the same things to people. You'd think they'd get the idea and stop asking the same flipping question though?! Yes, you have a small window for the CBFM, also only have to POAS for 2 -3 secs. I phoned the helpline first month and they said it's essential not to get the stick too wet. I was POAS for about 15 secs and it was messing the machine up.

*Tiny21* ...hi... 11:15 far too late to be in front of the computer!! hee hee

*Fififi.*... hello lovie, I'm glad this thread and our posts give you a lift. It really helps doesn't it? Bless your DD giving you her 'babies' to cuddle. Men aren't good with things like that. They just move on quicker and easier than we do. You are totally correct about the Mars thing! Just talk to us girlies on here about that stuff. We understand better. He definitely doesn't mean to hurt or upset you. Nightmare about Christmas... I cannot believe your sister said that!! What a cow. She obviously understands nothing about infertility. I'm sure your Mum is a lot more caring and supportive. Christmas is even harder when you have no children as it's really a time for the kids. I'm going to make a quick visit to my parents/Aunts/Uncles/cousins/siblings and back again this year and use work as an excuse. Luckily it's not joined to a weekend. I sound like Ebeneezer Scrooge! The thought of being surrounded by all my cousins' kids feels me with anxiety.... and the questions will begin again.

*Lesley*.....it really helps me to come on here and share thoughts/feelings, offer and receive support. Maybe that's why I sound quite upbeat? Isn't that typical with the ex ?! Yes, my DP's EW is already poisoning her daughter with horror stories about me. Pathetic! How awful with the unwashed hair for poor SD. DP has found nits in his daughter's hair on 3 or 4 occasions now where the ex hasn't spotted and dealt with them. Isn't that terrible? I know all kids get them at junior school and they spread like wildfire, but at least check the kids' hair!! Get the shampoo on and the comb out! Some of these women don't deserve to be mothers!! Please Lesley... NO MORE VITAMIN TABLETS!! haha. I have a job every morning to swallow them all as it is and do that thing when cats have fur balls  Nasty.

AFM.... first consultation at new clinic is tomorrow, so hope to make a plan after that. I feel a bit better when I have a plan of action and am being productive. I'll try and post all my questions and his answers on Thursday. I've typed it our on a Word document and have left space to write in the answers! What a geek.

K x


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## LellyLupin

Argh! was feeling very Ok this morning and then got a text form my best friend to say she could feel her baby move for the fisrt time - cue huge slump sigh.


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## Sushi Lover

Oh no Lesley.  Poor you.  I'd feel exactly the same.  Does your best friend not know about your fertility issues then?  Surely if she did, then she'd be a bit more sensitive?

It's so unfair isn't it?  You want to get excited for her, but at the end of the day can't help feeling a tiny bit selfish it isn't happening to you.  I really do not think she should be sending you texts like that!!  The thing is, how can you tell her not to, without sounding bitter and twisted?  It's a tough one.  I think I would explain that of course you are really happy for her, but the recent IVF has left you feeling rather raw still and you're struggling to cope with others' baby news.  You don't have to actually say "don't send me texts like that" ..it'll come out all wrong.  Let her work it out for herself with a few choice statements about how you are feeling/coping perhaps?  Otherwise you're going to have this to contend with for the next however many months.  Sigh.  I feel for you.

Big hugs


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## Coolish

Awe Lesley, it's really hard isn't it? You want to feel happy for friends but at the same time the little jealousy demon keeps popping up. 

We went out for Sunday lunch with friends at the weekend. Two of them have toddlers (12 and 18 months) and both know about us having IVF. In fact one of the couples had 14 IVF/IUI attempts themselves before they had their little girl. I found myself sitting their wondering if they all felt sorry for me. That was almost worse than the friends who don't know what we've been going through. I don't really want pity, I want to be 'normal'... I think I'm just on a bit of a downer at the moment, waiting to get my hidden c results so I can at leats start planning properly!


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## artist_mum

Hi all

Kirsty - Egg White - ha ha    I think that could stick (excuse the pun).  Blimey, xmas pressies in the car - bit of a far cry from an open fire and a yo ho ho.  What is WRONG with these women?!  The reason for my fall out last week was the 'cash for kids' incident (he was not allowed to pick them up for half term unless he brought cash - so they argued by text all week long then we didn't have them until 8.30pm on the friday night cos he would not pay to see them).  He pays maintenance by direct debit, she is not penniless despite her desire to be a 'poor divorcee with no help' - it just isn't the case.  Also she has still not released him from being named on her mortgage (had promised to do it by Aug 2010) which means we were turned down again for a mortgage last week - he can't cover if she defaults on hers...  

Good luck with your consultation tomorrow, hope you get all the answers onto your nicely prepared Word doc    I like the sound of that, nicely organised and well prepared!  On my side I am too old to really consider using my own eggs and so we don't really make the effort to time it with my cycle, but rather we are going down the donor egg route and have frozen embryos in Spain from our last cycle.  Just deciding what to do about it, and doing a monitoring cycle with ARGC in the meantime to try and make sure my body is in best place for the FET.

On the nits/hair thing we get the opposite - texts coming through 10pm at night to alert us that there are nits in the general area and that we should deal with it as per the following idiot instructions (informs us of nit combs, tea tree oil, shampoo - like we don't know this stuff). So far they haven't actually had any nits anyway but she feels it her duty to inform us on that, plus what they should eat, how their bedrooms here should be decorated (really!) , what they want to do on their evenings when they are with us, how their Auntie Louise should talk to them,  etc. etc.  Give me strength   !    xx

Chandlerino - thinking of you & sending a   for getting through all this stuff.  I think Lesley is right about luck playing such a large part in all of this.  And as for the money, yeah, how do people do it?  I don't know.  xx

Fififi - well done on getting through the day in a way that felt right to you.  It isn't up to someone else to tell you how to feel and when.  Martians... hmmm... they just don't get it sometimes    xx

Lesley - thanks for the 'keep strong' comment.  I so need that at the mo.  OH asked me to marry him 3 weeks ago and altho we haven't shared it widely (as we don't want EW to know yet so can't tell the kids either or anyone who will mention it in front of them) it seems like things have been terrible ever since with EW.  Like she knows that he is moving on.  She wanted it over, that's what I don't get.  How old is your SD?  school discos seem to start at about 6 years old now!  How appauling not to have her washed and ready to go.. Like you I end up washing sheets etc (bed wetting issue with one of them) and still get treated like an idiot and with little or no respect for me as a person.  It does lead to arguements with OH - I feel he doesn't stand up to her.  But you are right, her greatest wish would be that we split up so thanks, shall try harder with the   thinking.  You too.  Stay strong.  These women are in some weird place with their lives & it isn't for us to let that affect ours.  (easier said than done  )  I also now realise like you say in your case, that this EW is just actually not very bright.  Dealing with somebody a bit stupid does make everything harder (sorry I know that sounds awful) as we can't just do simple things like organise a meeting, a spreadsheet with dates on it for the diary etc. It seems to be beyond her to rationalise even the simplest thing.  xx

Moominum - The Swedish Lawyer.  I like that, it sounds like the title for a book or a film    Congrats on the retraining, that's amazing and an interesting career for sure.  For me, I have swapped from Corporate Communications/PR to studying Fine Art.  I love it.  However.. not exactly heading towards a lucrative career unless I pull off a Tracey Emin Unmade Bed or something.  Actually I am more thinking of becoming an Art Therapist but that requires an MA (2 years and MORE money!).  So we'll see.  Right now, I just feel we have too much stress going on with the EW, the children/access/money, my degree and our wish to have a baby.  Notice which one comes right at the end    xx

Hopeful - what are you studying?  I completely get it with the assessments coming up and being toooooo busy!  We also have not been having too much 'fun' recently and I worry that it is not good for our relationship buy hey, what can you do.. I just have not felt like it whilst my body has been getting back to normal.  Tricky huh!  xx

AFM I've had tests for hormones yesterday on day 3 of my cycle, then will have a scan to check pre ovulation lining etc next week and then check progesterone on day 21. It's just to monitor my cycle. Like Kirsty says, it is good to feel you are doing something altho I don't know what we will do after that - this FET we may go for, seems like the last chance for us.

It's hard to keep up with all the lovely people on here! ajw, cooljules, de_vi,MJ1Cornwall, Lozster, Salad, dillydolly.. hi and I hope you are all finding your way forward

Roxy x


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## artist_mum

Just seen your posts - Lesley - that is hard, I really would have to tell my best friend how I felt if she was giving me that much detail.  Not surprised that hurt xx


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## LellyLupin

To be honest girls she doesn't know, this will take a bit of an explanation but here goes. She has Bi-polar/Jealousy issues and copies everything I do down to the letter.  For example she has the same house as me (decorated exactly the same as mine), she is with a divorced man with 2 kids exactly the same age/sex as mine, her life mirrors mine exactly, all engineered by her.  When I told her my DP was having a reversal and I was going to try for a baby, she booked hers in (same hospital, same surgeon), we both ended up with our DPs having antibodies (exactly the same results would you believe).  I then told her I was thinking about IVF so she booked herself in.  I got so fed up with her copying my life that I told her I wasn't going to do it anymore (but carried on), but by then it was too late and she was already pregnant (shes 11 years younger than me).  Now she is suffering because she is having the baby I want and not the baby she really wants, its really complicated and hard to explain.  Now I am in a no win situation because she thinks I didn't go through with it because I changed my mind, but I only said that as I didn't want the pressure and to be frank I just wanted to live my own life for a change.  So I am stuck in a bit of a nightmare really, I can't tell her the hurt shes causing me so I will have to carry on with the charade and just suck it up I guess.  I am not sure if deep down she knows I have struggled to conceive (she must have read the stats) and this is her oneupmanship (the one thing she can do that I can't)  or she really is so blind to everything that she thinks I gave up on a whim and everything is hunky dory.  What a mess!


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## artist_mum

Gosh Lesley, that is a really tricky situation.  My immediate feeling is that she doesn't get it, and is merrily carrying on with her life without a second thought about yours or about how you feel.  You know, one of those type of people who don't really get emphathetic feelings.  I had a friend like that and she just didn't realise how to be sensitive to others - not on purpose, she just didn't get those thoughts. (I stopped the friendship as I knew she would never change & I didn't want to keep getting hurt).  I mean even if she thought you had decided not to carry on with IVF by choice, well, a normal person would STILL think about being sensitive to you not being pregnant yet.

But from what you say, you know that she is not 'normal' but has these bipolar issues with jealousy etc.  Which is sad.  But you know, you have enough to deal with.  I would try to distance myself from her.

I once sent a text to another friend after a whole load of 'clues' that she wasn't treating me right. I told her in the text that I didn't get a good feeling from our friendship and 'all the best' with her future but I was calling it a day.  `That was a few years ago. She ******** messaged me recently telling me she had married and had the perfect family and how lovely it all was now... and i ignored it.  Some people are never going to get it.  I don't want to sound harsh, but you know, you need to look after YOU.  You come across such a lovely person, don't let people like her steal away your life xx


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## Sushi Lover

*Lesley*... What a pickle hun! Your friend sounds like such hard work. From what you've said the woman has serious issues. Does she take medication for her bi-polar? Or is it undiagnosed? You can spot it, but she can't! I think Roxy is right that some people never 'get it' and you have to think of yourself. Can you distance yourself from her? Not cut her out completely, but just slowly disentangle yourself from her clutches?! Maybe she does think you've just given up and aren't that bothered? She must be on another planet to think that though. If she's your best friend and knows you well, she must have guessed you wouldn't give up on a whim right? Difficult one. I think that I'd slowly back away from her, the texts, phonecalls, meeting up. So you aren't totally in the middle of the nightmare, but somewhere on the outside. Carry on with the charade only when you really, really have to! Try and think of 'you' and protect yourself from her lack of sensitivity. You are still too vulnerable after the IVF.

xx


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## Sushi Lover

*Roxy*..... I know, I keep asking myself that same question about what is wrong with these women. Not very jolly for the kids opening their presents in the car. I really don't know what DP will do... As it is every Saturday he has to find places to visit (museums, parks, bowling, swimming, shopping, crazy golf etc.) when all he wants to do sometimes is cook them a nice lunch and watch a DVD together on the sofa... but she won't let them come to the house. Sigh.

That is incredible about the 'cash for kids' incident! She really wanted him to bring money before he could have the children? Unbelievable!! DP's EW pleads poverty all the time as well... even though she gets a large maintenance payment every month without fail and has no mortgage. She doesn't have to work even and still expects DP to pay for her holidays. He is quite happy to pay for the children, but won't pay for her. She goes like a lunatic everytime he stands up to her. I can see why some men back down ... anything for an easy life.

She tells you how to decorate their bedrooms!!? How funny. Talk about trying to teach you to suck eggs with all the other stuff as well. Does she think you and DH are total imbeciles?

What does a monitoring cycle involve? Sorry, I don't know much about them.

xx


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## LellyLupin

Hi Girls

Yes I know you are right, we have been friends for 15 years and in a funny sort of way I feel responsible for her, she was a mess when I met her and over the years I have sort of been a mother figure for her.  Sadly though she doesn't consider anyone elses feelings and I truly don't think she has considered for a second how I feel about anything, and shes just trundling along.  Shes like your ex friend Roxy she just isn't capable of empathy.  This I know though so I shouldn't be surprised, but I guess because I do consider other people I find it hard to understand how she can be so blind to others, and I guess this is the first time its affected me so closely, usually I can laugh it off but not this time.   

It could be her illness but I also think she is a naturally selfish person.  She has been diagnosed and is taking medication, I will be very interested to see how she copes with a baby,  shes already said it may end up on my doorstep (I hope shes kidding).  I know she is struggling with the pregnancy itself, as she said she doesn't feel any connection at all with the baby and feels like she is losing her identity already (which made me laugh as she is living a version of my life).  

Over the last 6 years I have distanced myself from her a lot and when she is happy I rarely hear from her, however when shes not and she needs me I find it hard not to help her, I guess that says more about me than her.  I know its not a healthy relationship for me but strangely I do miss her when I dont see her.  I have cut down our contact a lot and I intend to see a lot less of her over the coming months, for my benefit and not hers for a change.  Its strange because when DP met her for the first time he had her sussed and I defended her, since then though a shrink friend of ours gave us a write up on her personality disorder, and it says that she will be totally unaware of what she is doing, and that she will believe she is living a life she has created for herself, however she won't be happy as its utimately not what she really wants - its quite sad really.


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## artist_mum

Hi 

Lesley - From what you write, you obviously have a really good understanding of what's happening.  I understand what you mean about missing her/being there for her - and yes, that says a lot for the kind of person you are.  A kind person  .  If i were a counsellor which I'm not (!) I would wonder why it is that you feel you want to look after her when she doesn't reciprocate.  But then, like the animal care, it is just in you I guess and what a lovely quality.  Hope those hedgepigs appreciate it!!  And your bloke  .  At least you have this site to vent about stuff in a kind of anonymous way so that could help if she comes out with any other major insensitivities.  Good luck with it all  

Kirsty - As a kid we went to every Bond movie, had lunch at Wimpy (remember that?) & covered all attractions within 30 mile radius of my mother's house because my father had the same restriction as your DP.  The net result is that we have great memories of being with dad  .  Just a couple of weeks ago he told me that he was pushed out of our lives bit by bit.  So the kids do find out the truth in the end. I really feel for your DP and by default for you, because it does affect us all however strong you are in putting up mental/emotional walls with this stuff.

I have come to the conclusion that this EW thinks we don't know anything because actually she struggles to work it all out herself (e.g. the nit thing is so huge a learning curve for her that she thinks we would not be able to work that out).  My feeling after 3 years is that she is not a very natural mother & finds parenting very difficult.  The irony is that OH wanted to have them or have them 50/50 but she insisted on having full custody but now complains about every half term, INSET, summer holiday etc. as she prefers to be with her boyf.  She is very stilted with them (i hear her on the phone), I took them back once after a week with us and the first thing she said to them when they got out of the car was: "Gosh you do look scruffy"... (she is very uptight about how well their hair is brushed   and believe me they do bath & brush hair when they are with us, just not every 30 minutes.  Sounds like the opposite to your EW on the hair front   ).  Life is weird.. the people who end up with kids and don't like it, then those struggling to make it happen.  Crazy huh!

Monitoring cycle is something they do at ARGC (London clinic).  They test everything for 1 month of your cycle before allowing ivf - mostly the same tests as other clinics like progesterone, oestrogen on day 1-3 etc then a lining scan, then progesterone after ovulation. 

R xx


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## hopeful68

my goodness ladies: i have had a brief skim of the last few pages and cant believe some of the scenarios you are having to put up with!! i am SO lucky.
my DH has a past being 12 yrs older than me. for his Dad's funeral i as the wife was in the room, the ex-wife, the ex-fiance and the old flame were also there, and no dramas!!  - so different from your stories!! it does help that 2 of them are in Wales and 2 of us are in Dorset!! 
His kids are about 6-8 yrs younger than me (how wierd is that) - he started young!!! we have a bit of grief off their mum occasionally (who incidently wasnt at the funeral- another one in Wales so we are all good there no face to face meetings!!). She basically lied to DH and said she was on the pill and got PG x 2 and he left not wanting that at 18 yrs old!! he paid maintanance and suported them but wasnt 'Dad'. the son, started mixing with the wrong crowds, became and alcoholic, did a few drugs, got beaten up, got brain damage (mild) carried on drinking but developed Bipolar. he stopped drinking when he was told his liver would last about a year, but still does pot. the daughter is 'medically unfit to work' (apparently) and has a baby daughter of just over 1. DH gets on with her but has massive arguements and fall outs with the son who blames DH for his lifestyle and outcome. i have tried to suport DH and say that if he had been there the son may well have done the same things anyway, but there is an element of guilt and i think he is so desperate to have a child with me to prove he can be a good dad as much as any of the many other reasons!! - we all have something in the past!!

Lesley - i feel for your situation, friends that you could really do without but feel responsible for are a real pain. i had one when i lived in Edinburgh. she was 'nice but dim' !! couldnt read, got her eyes tested, got her glasses sorted out and helped her learn to read. taught her to cook (not that i am very good!!) loads of other stuff but it was all one way. the only thing i got back was a satisfaction that i had probably made a difference to her long term life. So draining, the sense of responsibility overrides your desire to quit 'the job' of helping them survive!! i do sometimes wonder what she is up to now, fortunately we lost touch 15+ yrs ago now when i moved south (Dorset couldnt have been much further away!!). 

My brother knows we are trying but phone the other week (while i am mid MC) to say he and his wife had a scare that she might be PG again but was SO relieved when the POAS can back negative. didnt know what to say to that really. glad it was a phone call as my face would have said more than i did!! But yes babies are everywhere at the moment. i am so glad people can get to be parents but resent the fact i cant.  May have to resort to hypnotherapy or something to 'free my mind' from baby thoughts and learn to be happy with me!! certainly need to, comfort eating rubbish at the mo, gained 7lbs!! need to go swimming again soon too. (notice 'soon', no definate date!! - need to stop bleeding first - heavy today!!)

Someone asked what my Uni course is: Emergency and Urgent Care Practicioner(EUCP) - 3 out of 6 modules funded by work. the other 3 if i want to do them to get the degree i have to self fund so deliberating as that is £2100 and half a cycle!! - also going to try and wangle it out of work given my recent pay drop! what is an EUCP i hear some ask.... an upskilled paramedic, a cheap GP who does a mix of emergency 999 work but also works for the Out of Hours Service. they arent in all services though so may not be in your areas. - so on that note, off to do more home work!!

Hugs too all of you, especially those who have recently joined the group and are still raw.


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## LellyLupin

Wow Fifi I thought my sister was bad, your sister is so harsh,  how could she say stop upsetting your mum how heartless, I really feel sorry for you   Xmas must be a total nightmare for you I wonder if your DD would be better off not seeing them if thats how they treat you  .

Kirsty how did your appointment go?  I laughed at the nits thing, on my first meeting with DPs kids EW sent them along with nits and a bottle of nit lotion - I think it was meant to put me off    

Cooljules your friend had 14 goes at IVIUIF?  Wow she deserves a medal!!  I am sure they weren't looking at you with pity but wishing you could have your dreamxx

Roxy  Congratulations on your forthcoming marriage   thats fantastic news xx  My SD is coming up 11  and me and DP argue like mad over him not standing up to EW too, but sometimes it helps to sit back and see things from his point of view, he is trying to keep everyone happy and it must be so stressful.  I call his ex the puppetmaster because she dangles us all on a string and has total control over all of us   I hate to see him jump when she snaps her fingers but its not forever, soon the kids will be grown and her power will be no more. xx  I can't believe your DPs ex was blackmailing him over access to the kids, thats so shocking they are HIS KIDS TOO, many EWs forget that fact!!!!

Rox you are right this thread is a godsend for me, I think I would explode otherwise I have so much going on in my life.  Not sure the hedgies are a de-stress  I spent last night trying to get one of them out of hibernation as he is too little to be in it  and will starve to death.  Cue hotwater bottles and trying to warm him up    DP doesn't really get a look in bless him, he is last in the queue behind the dog, horses and hedgies. 

You made me laugh with the Wimpys comment my sisters used to work there, what a blast from the past.  I hope kids do work it all out in the end, I hope my DPs do and see all the crap their poor father has had to put up with. I think DS has worked it out, he had never asked why DP and EW split up (she left him for one of his friends),  but when she left his friend he said he didn't want to know why so I think he has it sussed.  She has since moved on to another one of DPs friends  

Wow Hopeful talk about drama with the DHs kids, and well done for no fall outs with exes.  I have never actually met my DPs ex and I really don't want to  - ever, but I am sure its inevitable, I have managed to dodge it for the past 10 years though which I am pretty happy about.

The phone call from your brother must have been hard, I wonder why people feel the need to tell you things like that - it would have been kinder to say nothing.  My brother keeps saying 'oh kids are so hard Les, are you reallly really sure you want one, then I see him looking at his son with such pride in his eyes,  its so easy for people who have them to say that isn't it.   

Well done on the paramedic front I have nothing but respect for you, I wish I had done something more worthwhile xx

Chandler hope you are ok today xx

Hi to everyone else xx


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## Moominmum

Just a quick note and lack of personals tonight - sorry. I do read all your posts and I am amazed by some of your stories - the EWs, sisters and brothers etc. I feel so humbled to be chatting to you lot who seem to be able to manage everything whatever is thrown at you!  

My dad arrived (from Sweden) today so hopefully I will be able to forget about the baby thing for a while. I decided to not tell him about the IVF (and not the most recent MC as well) which right now feels quite good. I might tell him later when I am ready to talk about it so he is not left out (DH told my in-laws and my brother and his wife know too).

Hope everyone is feeling a little bit better today.     to all.


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## Sushi Lover

Morning ladies,

*Roxy*....That's good to know that as a child you did a similar thing to DP's kids now then. I'll tell him about it. We still have a Wimpy in our High Street!! They still do that horrible curly sausage thing as well! Burger and chips on a china plate with a proper knife and fork... How old do I sound! Turning into my mother. Have you questioned your mother about your life with your Dad as an adult? What answers did she give you about not being allowed to stay at your Dad's ? Ah right, thanks for the info about a monitoring cycle. So it's to make sure your body is the best environment for the waiting embryo then? How are you getting on with ARGC? When I contacted them they said you have to go for bloods and scans everyday during stimming of a normal IVF cycle! I just couldn't manage that at all with work. Plus that was an extra cost as well. Seems like another way to get more money out of you!

*Hopeful*.... Your job sounds so interesting. You'd think they'd fund the entire 6 modules though?! Instead of just half of it. A lot of money when you think that could be half another IVF cycle. Goodness, your DH's older kids sound a bit of a nightmare. My DP has 3 older children who he estranged from. He's the first to admit he wasn't a good father in his early 20's (so young!) and made some dreadful mistakes with keeping contact with them. He's been trying to get back in contact with them now and has been writing letters for 2 years with zero response. I do feel sorry for him as he's in bits about it and can't believe himself that he behaved abysmally ... he left their mother for the witch we are now having problems with and she used to call his children the devil's spawn (nice). It sounds like she selfishly wore him down and slowly the contact with them became less and less until nothing at all. She was jealous of them basically. He says all the time to me now he can't believe he 'chose' her over the children. Awful isn't it? I, in no way, condone his actions, but I know the EW is an evil bully and he was too weak to stand up to her. It's all different now and he's a changed man, thank goodness. A lot of years have passed. I just wish the older children would agree to meet him, or talk to him so he can explain what happened and apologise properly. But, on the other hand I can see why they don't want anything to do with him when he stopped seeing them. No parent should do that. Sigh... such a conundrum. I just encourage him to write the letters every few months and proof-read them for him. As long as they aren't be sent back torn into little pieces then maybe some message is getting through. How are you anyway? Feeling a bit more 'normal' again now th drugs are out of your system?

*Lesley*.... appt is today at 4:30.. looking forward to getting some answers.. I hope. A lady at work yesterday who had IVF 22 years ago told me she thought her egg transfer was done on day 10?! Until they knew for sure they were viable and of great quality. How interesting. I'm going to ask about that. Not sure if she's got her days muddled up or if that's right? Have you heard anything similar? How are you feeling today? Did you text your friend back? It's a shame she is so dependant on you Les. Lack of empathy is a typical trait of someone with bipolar. It doesn't sound as if the relationship you have with her is particularly fullfilling or healthy for you. I can see why you feel responsible for her though. It is a sad situation. Keep doing the distancing thing for your own sanity. All that "losing her identity" and "having no connection" will drive you bonkers! Not what you want to hear at all.

*Moomin.*... hi, have fun with your Dad visiting then. That's a lovely distraction!

K xx


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## Moominmum

Kirsty: good luck for today! I am probably as excited as you to know what they have to say


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## Sushi Lover

Ahhh thanks Moomin!  That's funny.  Any other questions you want me ask?  I'll ask the usual ones about improving egg quality/quantity, screening (Array CGH, PGS/PGD, translocation screening), DHEA, transfer later rather than earlier(pros and cons), benefits to freezing eggs and waiting for body to rest, then all the ones I have about short or long protocol (pros and cons).

Oh and any other tests/bloods that can be done to find any underlying problems we aren't aware of like immune testing.

If you think of anything else please let me know...  I'm happy to add to my list.  Not just Moomin...  that goes for all of you girls!  I'm going to get my £180 worth!

x


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## LellyLupin

Good Luck Kirsty I think you have it all covered


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## Sushi Lover

Thanks Lesley, I'll update you all tomorrow with the answers!


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## artist_mum

just  a quickie - i have assessment tomorrow & not done my work yet aaargh!

wanted to say good luck with the appointment later Kirsty - and you had me in stitches about the wimpy food    Can't believe you still have one near you!  Yeah I questioned my mother but its pointless, she still only sees it from her point of view.  So I just accept quietly and know in myself what really happened.  I think a lot of the EW problems are actually a personality disorder/grand selfishness which they can't actually help and probably never changes.  So we smile and try to do the right thing   

Lesley - that is so cute, trying to wake up a hedgehog!  Aaahh.  And thanks for the marriage congrats, it all feels a bit unreal - have managed to dodge getting married for all of my life so far  .  But yeah, these guys we are with do have a difficult juggling act and I do feel for him and try to support.  And I'm excited to be a 'mature' bride  

Hopeful - wow, that is a cool course to be on.  well done you and good luck with the work, i know studying is demanding... 

Moominum - enjoy the precious time with your dad.  Hope you get some lovely weather and can have some good moments together

Love to everyone else and   too.  It's great to know you are all on here..

Roxy x


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## Sushi Lover

Thanks Roxy.  Sorry, forgot to say congrats on your Engagement!  Do you have a big sparkler on your left hand now?!

x


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## cornwall

Hi everyone,

This thread is so busy I'm having trouble keeping up with all the news. I am in a complete muddle as to who's DH's EW did what. It's like catching up with a soap after being on holiday for a few weeks  

My parents had a very long and messy divorce which went on until I was old enough to leave home so I didn't get caught up in the custody and access stuff. My younger siblings did though and it had a terrible effect on them. My dad apologised to me. He cried when he told me. It was a long time ago but I still remember the moment and it helped me to forgive him. My mum has never apologised though (they were as bad as each other) and it has been hard to forgive her. It's only these last few years that we've managed to reach some sort of amicable relationship and I only see her 3 or 4 times a year.

Roxy: good luck with your assessment and congratulations on your engagement. I avoided marriage for a very long time (possibly because of my parents' mess). However, when I finally met Mr Right, I knew I wanted to marry him and was overjoyed when he popped the question. Five years on, I have no regrets and just hope we can complete our family next year  

Kirsty: good luck with your appointment. Please do ask which day is best for ET: 2, 3 or 5 day transfer. Also, if there is no sign at all of implantation (HCG less than 1), is that just bad luck or is there likely to be an underlying issue? As it was my first attempt, I'm assuming it was just the luck of the draw but I would be interested to know if there might be an immune issue. Of course, I had DEIVF so there shouldn't have been an issue of egg quality, especially as three made it to blast.

Hi to everyone else


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## Sushi Lover

Hi Cornwall..  sure I can ask that.  All the 'which transfer day is best' plus immune testting is all part of master plan to be honest!  I now have 3 pages of questions!  Poor bloke won't know what's hit him.


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## fififi

Evening!!!

Kirsty - hope your consultation went well and you feel like you got some good answers to your questions and a good idea of what next would be best for you.

Cornwall - yep, this thread is a bit like a soap it does take a while to catch up!!! Perhaps we need a start page with a "character" summary for each of us!!!!!  
Hope all's okay with you.

roxy - hope you're managing to get assignment done and won't be still working too far into the night

moom - enjoy seeing your Dad and try not to worry about what he doesn't know. I think it'll do you good just to relax and not have to have those caring parent conversations that right now are pretty hard to deal with even though you know the parent is just worried about you. Bet DS will be having fun seeing his grandad too. Do you go back to Sweden much?
PS. On the "if only I'd done it sooner" front I'm sure many of us look back and think that but it's by no means something you should feel bad about. If you had made changes sooner then they'd be other regrets    

lesley - your friend sounds very hard work but you obviously care for her greatly. You've already taken on lots with her copying your every move so it must have been really heart wrenching to find out she'd managed to conceive. I know very little about bi-polar disorder but do know that however much you care about your friend there's a limit to how much internal pain you can cope with. Plus until you get your miracle that pain isn't really going to change. I'd advise you to try and say something to her about the fact that you were still trying for a baby and right now you're upset by fact it hasn't worked so it's hard to chat easily about pregnancy & babies. As others have said think about your feelings too    
PS. My cow/sister has always been bit of nightmare and if I could avoid her forever I would. After the delightful comments last Xmas she then didn't even send me a text or anything when I lost my twins in April despite my mum & other sisters telling her what had happened to me. Annoyingly we live miles away from all my family so have to stay at my mum's over Xmas in order to see any of my family and I wouldn't want to not see any of them. (Not sure how I'll cope with the new baby addition this year though as it really hurts to see my sister constantly produce kids and not have time to actually care for the ones she's already got. Destiny seriously muddled something up there!!! Might just take one of the other ones back home with me cos it'd be while before she'd notice any were missing  )

hopeful - sorry to see you're bleeding again. Really hope your body gets back to normal soon for you    Can't believe your brother would say such things to you when he knew what you're currently going through. The pain of over hearing a complete stranger say that sort of thing hurts enough.

Tiny, cooljules, chandlerino, dillydolly & anyone else I've forgotten - hugs & hope life is beginning to feel less painful for you


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## LellyLupin

I though Wimpy had gone bust you'll be telling me next that Hintons is still open  

Kirsty there seem to be a lot of women out there who separate their partners from their children, I am sure its a lot easier on a relationship but it must be so hard for the kids themselves.  I see both sides to your DP situation, its very sad that the kids won't forgive him, but as they get older I am sure they will change their minds.  

I haven't heard of a 10 day wait before transfer before,  but I think its a bloody good idea, if the egg can develop for that long surely its a keeper.  I did text my friend back yes and did my usual supportive friend bit, can't help it    I am going to distance myself though as I am sure you are right about the bi-polar lack of empathy, and I have to protect my feelings here especially if I do another ivf and its a BFN again and shes never going to change.

Roxy yes tell us about the ring?  I too have managed to dodge marriage, actually twice my DP have started to arrange a wedding and twice my Bi-polar 'friend' booked her wedding as soon as she heard so we have cancelled.  The first one she didn't go through with and the second she did, so I would have been married at least 6 years if she hadn't ruined it.  Have you looked at dresses yet, what style are you after?  I have already picked mine, if I could post a photo I would show you it I love it. xx

Moomin I am so glad your dad is here to cheer you up, try and give your mind a break and have fun with him  

Wow Cornwall you parents split sounds rough,  they do forget the kids in all the bitterness, its so sad and the poor kids end up as weapons, it must have such an effect.  Great that you are happily married though well done you.  I didn't have a very happy childhood and my Mum brought me up not to get married and she truly can't understand that I actually want to marry DP.  My siblings and I would have been better off if our parents had divorced so it can work both ways.  Arguing parents who stay together can have a devastating affect on kids confidence too xx

Kirsty are you armed with all the answers now chick?  xx


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## LellyLupin

Hi Fifi  just a quick question, are you the baby of the family?  I have come to the conclusion that my nasty sister has always been jealous of me because she was the baby, and then I came along and stole the attention.  My oldest sister is lovely and was another mother to me growing up, but my elder sister has always been a bit of witch to me.  She used to take me out in the pram,  bang the pram up and down the kerb till I cried and then take me back to Mam and tell her what a whingey baby I was (she actually told me this).  I can't believe your sister did not even acknowledge the loss of your twins that is truly shocking    I smell jealousy here  

On the bipolar friend front, I must admit every day I dreaded the news that she would be pregnant,  and I just knew as she is 11 years younger than me that she would get pregnant.  In a funny sort of way it was a relief to know the worst had happened.  The fact that I found out by accident and that she was already 12 weeks pregnant when I found out did hurt I must admit, apparently she was dying to tell me but her husband wanted to wait until the danger period was over.  I found out when she sent him a text asking permission to tell me and she accidently sent it to me. Since then I hear about it all the time, its a boy and its going to be called Sam - sigh,xx

Yes we should issue a cast list of our lives and the players it would make it much eaasier to keep up


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## fififi

Lesley, Nope I'm the eldest of 6!!! The evil sis is the one closest to me in age so I expect it is jealously in a wierd way as in her eyes I got to do everything first. Only obviously I failed at having kids bit since rest of my siblings bar the very youngest all managed that one fine. (The youngest has severe endo but after 6/7 mc is finally pg - the only sis I'm actually pleased for. She at least is considerate to my feelings and has said she'll visit my mum's at different date if nearer the time I don't feel I can cope with seeing pg person.)

How funny about your sis deliberately making you cry - now obviously, but not for you at the time!

I so feel for you with your friend. I had 2 close friends both get pg "by accident" at the same time as my last BFN cycle and when the babies were born in June I just couldn't cope with going to see them. They were both aware of the IVF, and the MC in April, so throughout their pg took care to not bring up baby related stuff. I was able to email them and explain that much as I was pleased for them I just couldn't see them for a while and obviously being of a similar nature to me they understood and made me feel like what I'd said was fine with them too.
In your case you just can't do that but will need to find other ways to protect yourself cos life (my end at least) always seems to hit you with clangers just when you're feeling lowest  

roxy - just realised I've forgotten to congratulate you. It's quite exciting having wedding news to chat about - hope you plan on having an internet feed so all your ffs get to watch on the big day!!!! 
Must be hard remembering you can't say anything yet but we'll glady listen in on your secret plans!!!


----------



## Mish3434

We have a Wimpy in Kings Lynn too!! I keep thinking I'll pop in and see they still do the Mushroom Double Swiss lol.

Loving your EW stories, thankfully hubby doesn't have the EW but he did have an Ex live in girlfriend who was totally nuts, thankfully she doesn't bother us anymore  and my Ex hubby is also well out of the picture 

Hope you are all doing ok, you all seem quite upbeat    I really do hope you all get your dreams soon    

Shelley xx


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## Sushi Lover

Morning girls!

Right, where to begin... the consultation went really well. DP and I were in there for over a hour whilst I went through all my questions. He was happy to answer every single one with a thorough answer and didn't seem in the least bit concerned about the time or the fact I'd spent a lot of time googling stuff that I wanted to run past him! Not once did he mention 'old eggs', 'rubbish eggs' or 'crappy eggs' as my last consultant did. To be honest, it was a breath of fresh air and I found out more in one hour than I did in the last year under the previous clinic!

so..... Main points as follows:

*Screening*
A few options are available.... *PGD* (Pre-Implantation Genetic Diagnosis), *Array CGH* and *Translocation* is screening that is done on the embryos, rather than the eggs. The embryos must have 8 cells or more on day 2 or 3 as 1 cell is removed for screening. So you have to have embryos that are of top quality to start with and are dividing quickly and easily. Costs £2,800. There is also Single Gene Defect testing for known genetic or chromosomal issues that costs a whopping £4,250!

*PGS *(Pre-Implantation Genetic Screening) involves screening eggs for chromosomal issues before fertilisation. The polar body that is expelled by the egg contains a number of chromosomes that mirrors the ones left inside the egg... it expels half it's chromosomes to allow the male chromosomes in and make a viable embryo. They analyse the polar body chromosomes and then know about the ones left behind in the egg. This can only done on mature eggs and it also costs £2,800 for up to 8 eggs.

*EEVA* (Early Embryo Viability Assessment).. new to the clinic (a few months!) and is really exciting. It is an innovative imaging diagnostic system that continually films the embryos 24/7 whilst they stay inside the warm environment of the incubator. The computer software analyses which embryos that it believes will reach blastocyst stage and it's 85% successful, compared with the embryologist's assessment of 50% correct. So it provides early and accurate identification of the most viable embryos.. also provides info about when to transfer, how many to transfer and detailed information and analysis about what to do after an unsuccessful cycle. They even give you a USB stick showing your embryos growing. Also it means they do not need to be removed from the incubator to be assessed every day. The consultant thinks this is the future for all IVF cycles... it costs £800.. which I thought was much more do-able!

*Immune Testing*
It's a good idea to have this done (it was never suggested to me at the last clinic). The main test is for Natural Killers Cells which, if you have them, would mean no matter how many IVF cycles you had you would never get pregnant. The test costs £620 and involves 3 different aspects of the immune system. To solve this problem, if the blood test is positive, would involve an Intralipid Infusion which cost £300 a go. You have one at the start, one at transfer and then once again if you are pregnant at 7 weeks.

*AMH*
Again, this is something I haven't had done, but I know many of the girls on here have. It is essential in assessing ovarian reserve and if too low will show you'd need donor eggs, too high and it's a sign of PCOS. FSH is an outdated test now (I had this one) and he sees no point in repeating it when AMH is more reliable.

*Supplements/Chinese Medicine*
All vitamin and mineral supplement are good and will strengthen the body. Chinese Medicine is a no go area though. It interferes and changes the hormonal structure too much.

*DHEA*
He is all for this! However, do not buy the tablet form as the acid in the stomach destroys most of the good work it does. 25mg 3 times a day in a 'sublingual' form (dissolves under the tongue). Will have to google this for price and supplier. No point in doing the blood test for it as everyone has low levels and it's pointless. Older women will benefit from it and the chances of developing ovarian cysts are pretty minimal.

*Freezing*
There is a benefit to freezing embryos and transferring them back in when the body is rested, but this can only be done at blastocyst stage... so you'd have to get to that first.

*Transfer day*
More chance of a viable pregnancy if transfer is done on day 5 (wouldn't go longer than that in any circumstances). However, if you wait from day 3 and your embryos don't make it to day 5 you'd always be thinking "what if I transferred them earlier? Would they have survived?" ... no matter how good the environment is in the lab it is never as good as the human body and uterine environment. It's the best place without question. If you didn't want the trauma of the 2WW you could insist on waiting until day 5, but there is a small chance the embryos would have thrived once back in the womb. So it's a personal choice really. There is always the argument that if they didn't make it in the lab, they wouldn't have made it inside the body. But I'm afraid it's not that clearcut.

*Improving egg quality*
I think we are doing everything we can do... supplements, healthy living, no alcohol, no caffeine, loads of sleep, trying to reamin stress-free, exercise, being neither underweight or overweight, having acupuncture, taking DHEA. No miracle cure I'm afraid. As we all know, you cannot make new eggs as men can do with their sperm. Only try and improve the ones we already have.

*What goes wrong in a failed cycle*
The main problem with women over 40 is egg quality as we all know... we can improve this as above. Also using the EEVA technique will help identify the strongest embryos. Immune system problems and rejection of embryos (see above). Implantation failure due to polyps or fibroid (ultrasound will pick this up). Clotting and M/C - baby Aspirin or Clexane (but only if diagnosed as needing it). Thin lining (drugs can solve this). Embryos not sticking to the lining (a new product called Embryo Glue!!... before transfer this is mixed with the embryos and increases the possibility of the embryos binding to the womb lining) ... £200

*Long versus short protocol/Drugs*
Short protocol is normally used in older ladies as more eggs are produced at collection. It has been said that the longer protocol produces fewer eggs, but that are of better quality. He said there is no evidence to support this. I actually had worse eggs on the long protocol! He uses Gonal F and Centrotide during stimulation as finds this works better than Menopur/Fositmon with the horrible synarel spray! As for the drugs after transfer... progesterone pessaries, yes. I had Clexane (blood thinner) and Prednisolone (steroid)... he doesn't agree with these unless you have a problem with reoccurring M/C and the clotting issue or an immune problem. Why put drugs in your body when you don't necessarily need them?

*Rest between cycles*
At least 3 months for the ovaries to recover... I didn't rest for long enough last time and he thinks that's why my response was poorer than previous cycle. Again, my consultant pushed me into this!

*One last thing... he is helping women in their 40's become pregnant using their own eggs all the time.... the oldest lady with her own eggs was 46. Donor egg pregnancies in women in their late 40's and 50's is successful too! He did not once mention it's pointless or not worthwhile to carry on and persevere and has given me new hope and positivity. I hope I can transfer those positive vibes to you girls too. Stay strong and carry on. You have to give it at least 3 goes (money permitting) before considering moving on*   

I hope this helps girls... sorry it's so long and for the lack of personals... xxx

p.s. I think that's everything?! If I've forgotten something please ask... I'm bound to have asked him!


----------



## LellyLupin

Wow Kirsty that is soooo useful, well done girl    I am going to print that off and digest the info before I make anymore decisions.  xx


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## Sushi Lover

You are very welcome Lesley... this site is a life-saver eh?!

For all you Wimpy lovers out there ...they still do the 'Bender in a Bun'    Makes me laugh every time!

xx


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## Coolish

Kirsty - what a great consultation you must have had. Thanks for posting up the notes. There's some really interesting bits in there that I hadn't heard off. I do like the idea of embryo glue - I think I need a spot of that!


----------



## LellyLupin

Kirsty what clinic did you go to?


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## Sushi Lover

*CoolJules*... Yes, I learnt such a lot I have to say and came away feeling so much more positive. Thought it would help to share my notes with everyone. I'd not heard of the Embryo Glue either... interesting one! I wanted to laugh when the consultant said it. Could definitely help those embryos bind to the uterus lining. It may help you? I see you had some tests that came back positive? At least they can fix it now. May be the reason for your unsuccessful cycles.

*Lesley*.. it's called CRM (Centre for Reproductive Medicine) in Baker Street, London. Have a look at the website. http://www.ivfcliniclondon.com/. I saw Mr Forman. On the home page it tells you they are the first IVF clinic in London to offer the Early Embryo Viability Assessment (EEVA) test. I'm really excited about this! Could be exactly what we are looking for.

x

/links


----------



## Coolish

*Kisrty* - yes I came back positive for hidden c and ureaplasma. I've just received the details of the 25 day AB course we need to take. I'm going to try and see my GP tomorrow to see if they wiil prescribe them on an NHS prescription. Also when I had my telephone consultation last week with Penny at Serum, she said that testing positive could point to further immunes issues and possible scarring in the uterus which could be looked at by hysto. Also they will do antivirals for me, which my current clinic poo-pooed. I'm feeling pretty positive too!

New Year, new start!


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## artist_mum

Kirsty - thank you, thank you, thank you!  For your wonderful post and especially the bold bit at the end.  It made me cry.. it is so amazing to have this support on here.  I think I am a bit in denial about how tough I find this journey.  And, of course, thanks for reminding us about the 'Bender in a Bun' NOW that is good to know you can still get one.  Anyway I'm so pleased it all went well for you.  As CoolJules says, New Year New Start - go for it girls!

Lesley - aha.. so you are planning to be a mature bride yourself (i think this is the terminology). I have done a v quick google on dresses and really no idea what to do altho my sister seems to be taking it upon herself to be chief advisor.  As for the sparkler.. not yet - firstly cos we can't tell the children cos the EW will freak out but also my boyf is a bit of an arty sort himself and wants to design it & have it made.  But, quite sensibly, he thought he would run the design past me first!  We haven't organised much else yet due to other stuff going on and anyway this gives me time to get my head around it all - I'm excited but nervous too.  Gosh, that 'friend' of yours hasn't half taken over..  still, your wedding can happen beautifully in its right time, I"m sure you will both know when the moment is right   xx

Hi Shelley - glad to hear you can get yourself not only the mushroom double swiss but also of course the bender in a bun!  Lucky you!  And good luck with your journey...

Fifi - wow, an internet wedding - now that's an idea!  My sister just moved to Oz, hoping she will be back for it but if not..  xx

Hiya moominmum, hopeful, chandler, Tiny and all the other gals..

Anyway I gotta go - it is our anniversary today   so as a real treat for the boyf, I am going to wax my legs!  I know I know.. I do spoil him  

Roxy x


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## LellyLupin

Wow get you waxing your legs, must be a big anniversary is it


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## cornwall

Lol Roxy - waxing your legs! I hope he notices  

Kirsty, thank you so much for all the information. Your consultation sounds excellent.
I think I may need a spot of embryo glue too  

I'm glad the consultant said you need to be prepared to have three attempts. I think it is a numbers game if there aren't any other issues so I'm hoping my second cycle is the lucky one. Age-wise, time is not on my side so I can't afford the luxury of a long break between cycles.


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## artist_mum

3 years together.. and yeah he is bound to notice - it was, let's just say, long overdue a tidy up!

Cornwall - i am same as you, can't do too many cycles or spread them out due to age - just been 47 in Oct   but still hope to be a mature mother as well as a mature bride!

Roxy x


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## fififi

Wow kirsty you did get lots of useful information. Must have been so nice having such a long appointment with ability to talk to someone who actually seemed to have time for you. My 20 min slot next week will be so rubbish in comparison!!! Wish London wasn't so far from me as that clinic sounds great - although I'm not supposedly having any more cycles just hoping for natural advice. (Sadly struggling to give up on my dream so might have to just do one more - though not sure DH or finances will be agreeing with me in any way. Now feel bit like an addict, how rubbish is that?!!)

roxy - hope the legs look lovely!!!

Must dash as zonked & need to go to bed - catch up again soon.
Hugs to all & hope you have good weekend when we get there!


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## Moominmum

A quick Hello before I go for a needed sleep. Tomorrow and the weekend I will be leading three generations of men with all trouble that involves so I need all the sleep I can get. So just a short note that I still read everything (thank God for smartphones ) and I will write a long catch-up post on Monday when I have some peace again.

A few quick ones:
*Roxy*: I don't know how I missed it but congrats to the coming wedding - how exciting! 
*Kirsty*: wow, seems like a great consultation with CRM. They do sound to be as high-tech as their website promises! I had some thoughts around what you wrote but need to think a bit more and add it to my coming long post on Monday.

Everyone, have a lovely, lovely weekend and take care of yourself (and don't let any EWs ruin it!).


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## Moominmum

Forgot to say how grateful I am to have "met" you all lovely ladies!


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## Sushi Lover

Hello ladies... thanks goodness it's Friday, what a long week at work with a cold and a cough  I'm exhausted!

*Roxy*.... You are so welcome hun. Glad I can help and share the info. Bless you for crying. I hope the 'bender in a bun' comment made you smile afterwards! You made me laugh about leg waxing. I worried about this during last EC and ET!! It's the least of my worries .. ridiculous! Funny how the smallest of things pop into our minds. Happy Anniversary for yesterday, I hope you had a lovely evening.

*Cornwall*... glad to be of some help really. Have felt worse than useless lately because of failed cycles. You do blame yourself constantly. Yes, it is a numbers game, you are right. The consultant actually asked me if there is a reason why I'm not falling pregnant. I thought that was so refreshing than presuming/blaming 'old eggs'. The luxury of being younger is something we'd all love for sure. You can take things slower and there is less stress of the body-clock ticking away. When he said about the 3 month break at first I was panicking because of getting older... then I had a word with myself and have come to the conclusion it's better to be a little patient and let ovaries recover properly before next cycle. It makes sense to rest. Rushing into it is a false reassurance as it will lower the chances of good response...and ultimately another BFN.

*Fififi*... I know! Poor bloke probably wanted to go home for his dinner! I used to have a rushed 20 minute slot at my last clinic, people would be in the waiting room for the next appt, she was always running behind and there was never enough time. Felt like such a waste of time and I always ended up crying in the car on the way home. It's horrible feeling like an addict isn't it? I know exactly what you mean. Someone once described it to me as animal instinct.. to keep wanting to carry on and procreate! It makes sense. I hope the chat with DH about trying again goes well.

*Moomin*... looking forward to hearing your thoughts on Monday lovie! Enjoy the weekend with 'your boys' !  I feel grateful as well. In the beginning I wasn't sure how it could help and if it was a bit cheesy writing on a forum (before joining up) ... now I couldn't do without you lovely girls.

*Lesley*... did you have a look at the website? Tempted to book a consultation? How are you feeling today?

AFM.... booked up my AMH and Immune Testing appts. £730 in total  I think the Christmas presents for DP won't be as frivolous as previous years. Would just love to wrap up a positive pregnancy test stick as a present. What else could he want or need?! Off for some sushi at lunchtime ... need my fix as my forum name keeps reminding me!

K x


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## artist_mum

Hi

Thanks Moominmum, I kinda mentioned the upcoming nuptials in passing as it is a bit low key really at the mo.  But hey this is a female chat forum & we are talking dresses, rings etc  .  Happy weekend: 3 bloke generations .. all the best with that!    x

Fififi - I too understand what you mean about that addict feeling but then it is natural isn't it.. i mean to want a child of your own.. so I hope you manage to work out your next steps with your DH. x

Kirsty - I am STILL laughing about the bender in a bun and have now googled to find my nearest Wimpy so I can re-live those good ol' days of my dad's saturday outings!  My OH is a veggie so it may not be so great for him - looks like the spicy bean burger is his only option      Great you have booked your immune and amh tests.  My immune results were really interesting and better than I had hoped after having M.E. although the one abnormal reading does point to a possible problem there - they give steroids for this so will have to see what i am offered.  It will be great for you to see what yours come back with when you get to that point.  Have a great weekend x

Lesley - how are you doing?  I was looking at your earlier post about parents NOT divorcing and sometimes that can be just as bad - I think you're right, it is hard to know what is best for kids really.  i think adults should do what is right for themselves and the kids will most likely be happy if the parents are.  In my case they divorced, but my mother then remarried and argued with him instead  .  My father also remarried and is now on his 5th partner (married and divorced 4 times).  As my sister says, it's a wonder we're as normal as we are!  Hope all is well with you & you enjoy the weekend x

hi to everyone else reading this & hope you are all moving along OK in your journeys

Roxy x


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## LellyLupin

Hi girls, wow had a busy week with poorly mother and poorly hedgies.  Vets again today for antibiotics I should have my own seat in there.  Hmm problem now is how to get the antibiotics into the mouth of a hedgehog who is in a tight little spikey ball    

The clinic is too far away for me Kirsty I am in the North East  , I would book a consultation in a heartbeat there if I was closer.  Mr Forman sounds like a dream come true.  

Roxy 5th partner wow!  Its funny we all say the same as you and your sister, its a wonder we turned out fairly normal at all   I think we all got on in spite of our childhood and not because of it.  I would love a child of my own because I know it would have a really happy childhood cos I'd make damn sure of it.  Dad made a lovely comment today about me not having kids I really debated telling him I couldn't have them and then I thought ' Oh why bother its not worth the effort'. 

Hi everyone else hope you are all doing ok, Moomin I am grateful too to have all you ladies in my life xx


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## MJ1

Hi Ladies,

I haven't been on for a while but keeping close to see how you are all doing. Had a nice lunch with an old friend today, she fell with her first at 44 naturally, and has a lovely little girl who will be a year in January. 

Feeling crap today, just found out my SIL is pregnant again with a girl this time, thankfully they live in LA so I don't need to see her bump growing. Made me feel pretty crap always harder when it is a family member ..... ho hum, then had a row with DP   arghhhhhh.

On another note we have made an appointment to go back to Lister to see our old consultant from last years treatment. Seeing him in January. I want to get through this Christmas without worrying about anything.  
Will see what he suggests, not sure that we will do IVF again, maybe IUI? not sure. Will have to wait and see what he says..
Hope that you are all okay and thanks for making me feel so welcome and able to share my feelings  
Happy weekend to you all xxx


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## LellyLupin

Hi MJ its alway difficult when family or close friends get pregnant, its one of those things that you just can't get away from.  What we need is a coping mechanism that doesn't involve fake smiles and then tears later in the bathroom


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## LellyLupin

Hey where is everyone?


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## Sushi Lover

Hiya Lesley, sorry I've been up to my elbows in paint and sandpaper all weekend!  Decorating our bedroom. Day off work to do the same again today. I'm aching so much!
How are you hun? Weekend been ok? What a shame you are so far away from London. You could always come down just for the consultation and ask him for recommendation in your area maybe?

MJ1.......It gives us all hope to hear about natural pregnancies at 44 I have to say! Equally it's so tough hearing about family members getting pregnant easily. Thank goodness she's in LA! Good idea to book a consultation in Jan and have a break over Christmas.

AFM..... Has anyone else had a delayed AF this month following the unsuccessful IVF the month before? I'm 5 days late and think my hormones must be all over place!

xxx
xxx


----------



## Moominmum

Hi All,

Hope you are doing well.

Quick one (I have my long post to write ) *Kirsty*: I also have a delayed AF  For the AF "during" the cycle I was "on time" as per normal (before OTD despoite the progesterone gel. Now I am 2 days late. What's going on? Also, how long from the CBFM peak should AF arrive, is there a standard? And can you have a false ""peak" on the CBFM. So frustrating all this. I just wanna get on with things.

Sorry *Lesley*, have been busy with dad being here. No more I'd say. Will write more later (once my dad has left!).

Moominmum


----------



## fififi

kirsty & moom - I've opposite problem and got AF 5 days early. This happened to me last time I got BFN too. It's normal for bodies/hormones to take a while to adjust which is why clinics generally advise you wait 3 AFs before next treatment. I've also been led to believe it's not worth checking ovulation that 1st month (straight after BFN) as hormones too out of sinc.

Annoyingly for me I'm now not even able to try naturally this month as DH off to China with work & as AF came nearly week early he'll be away for my fertile time - grrrrr! (Hoping to try and squeeze in a NK cell test instead since that requires you not to TTC in month you do it. Not that we're having more treatment but it could be helpful for natural chances too I think?
Will know better tomorrow as that's when my teeny 20 min review slot is!

lesley - hi hun, hope poorly mum and hedgehog both on mend  

mj1 - think life seems to throw extra pg ladies into our pathways when we're most wanting to avoid them! It is pants how much it hurts and horrible having to fake interest/pleasure when they tell you   

Hi everyone else xxx


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## LellyLupin

Hi Kirsty I got mine 5 days after I stopped the progesterone.  Now awaiting next AF but not sure when its due as I am sure my cycle is all to pot. 

Mum still poorly but hedgies full of bounce and getting very tubby  

Moomin hope you are having fun with your dad, my weekend was full of horses, dogs, hedgies and friends and even managed a trip to the theatre.  I have managed to avoid any pregnant ladies thank god so no down moments for a change.

Rox how are you doing?

Hi Fifi xx


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## Sushi Lover

It's all a bit confusing about where your cycle is after a failed IVF.  I kind of thought I could count my usual 27 days from last bleed and it would all be back to normal?!  Silly me!  Our bodies and hormones must still be out of sync as Fifi said.  Such a pain when trying to fall naturally.  My DP keeps telling me to do a test and I've tried to explain the lateness is more to do with hormones being out of kilter than anything else.  Really don't need that feeling of disappointment and upset from POAS.

Moomin...  my AF usually arrives 14 days after my peak on CBFM.  But this month the monitor is showing all sorts of funny results, so it's a bit unreliable following all those drugs we pumped into our bodies for the IVF.

xx


----------



## LellyLupin

Aw bless one of my friends she text me last night to say if I was going to do another IVF she would carry the baby for me.  Oh if only that was the problem and not my 'old' eggs I wold take her up on it.  I can't believe she offered thats true friendship for you.


----------



## Sushi Lover

Ahh Lesley, that made me well up.  

What an amazing friend.  Hang onto her!

I sometimes wonder if, given the option, I'd prefer a donor's eggs or a surrogate.  Obviously depending on the problem.  Would the baby 'feel' more like your own if you carried it and gave birth to it rather than someone else doing that, but the baby still having your DNA? I'm inclined to think you would bond better with the first option, even though the egg has come from elsewhere.  Maybe our old egg problem isn't so bad after all?  At least we have the donor option.  It's a tough decision to make though and one I struggle with!

xx


----------



## artist_mum

hi
sorry been quiet for a few days - it's always busy on a weekend when OH's kids are here.  Also lots on with uni work.

Lesley - hiya, yeah am ok thanks.  Too much on really, or I am not good at coping with it all, I don't know.  Am just wondering how good all this busyness is for making babies?!  Prob not at all good.  But I can't just sit at home waiting to be pregnant...  i love the sound of your weekend with animals and the theatre - what did you see? Was it good?  Good to hear the hedgies are getting tubby,  aaah, they are such a cute animal.  I hope mum pulls through, keep us posted.  Hope your week is going well despite the rainy weather (not so great for animals!) And yes, you have a lovely friend there, what a great thing to hear.  xx

MJ1 - regarding baby bumps and the like.....  I am so rubbish when I just see somebody in the street with a bump I always take a look to see if they are fat or really a proper bump   Isn't that awful!  It's like I just need to confront the bump issue in my head and come to terms with it.  I seem to be able to get over it with friends (unless they surprise me with news) but complete strangers in the street - well, I just think 'why have you managed this and I haven't".  It is all so irrational isn't it, and yet of course it is deeply upsetting to have to wait and not to know what will happen.   Pray that you get your own bump in time.  xx

Kirsty - on the egg vs surrogate option, we have gone straight to egg donation (given my age) and after talking it through together we really felt OK about it.  We see it in a positive way almost like somebody donating blood or some other body part to help with your life - in an altruistic way.  We do have concerns obviously on how the child will feel but then we think we can just explain that we made the best decision we could because we so wanted a child together.  I have a christian faith and feel that God brings things about in mysterious ways and so we are just taking a step at a time in all this.  In our case the donor is anonymous so that's a whole other issue (the child will not be able to trace the donor).  Lots to ponder in all this.  My AF came 6 days late after the cycle. xx

fifi - how did your consultation go?  Any clearer now?!  I wondered if you had decided to do the NK cells test.  What a pain about the China trip. These things are sent to test us!  xx

AFM  I'm off to ARGC for a scan tomorrow, just part of the monitoring cycle which I'm not really convinced about.  But they insist on it before treatment and we do have these frozen embies in Spain so we feel a responsibility to them I guess.  And to giving them the best chance.

--  A quick whinge: I am so fed up with these 'single mothers' moaning about their situation.  The EW does it all the time + people on my uni course.  They complain and I am hard pushed to just smile and move along quietly  .  I know it must be a lot of work however fighting the odds to have your own child is no picnic either.  Whinge over.  --

hello moominmum hopeful cooljules and anyone else I've missed
 and xxs
Roxy


----------



## MJ1

Thanks Ladies for your support and comments. Having AF pains, due Saturday  .  We are off to see my Niece for a couple of days, she is studying at Uni. My Nieces are my babies.... well until I get my own    
Have a nice few days and love to all. 
MJ1 xxxx


----------



## chugabur1972

Hello ladies,

I hope you don't mind if I join in.......

I'm not technically 40 until the 4th December but I got my BFN today on OTD and I'm feeling blue  

Was advised to check out this thread as you lovely ladies are very supportive and encouraging  

My OH and I are totally devastated.  It was our first cycle but cannot go ahead with the second as I will turn 40 before I start treatment   so we are going to appeal as advised to do so by our clinic but don't hold out much hope.  We are also looking at self funding but due to OH being out of work at the moment it will take some time to save up.  Any suggestions on Abroad vs UK?

Hope you don't mind me joining.

Take care ladies and I look forward to chatting with you soon.

Clare xx


----------



## artist_mum

Hi Clare

 and welcome!

I'm so sorry to hear about your result today.  It's so very hard to take I know.  I have only done 1 cycle myself so far and I know it just feels so disappointing when part of you just thinks, well this is it...and then it doesn't happen.  So I"m sending you a big hug and I really hope you will find a way forward from this when it feels right.  Me and OH were both devastated too - it's such a tough journey.  Just be kind to yourself now and in the next few weeks, and give yourself some nice treats  

And don't lose sight of things -  you are still young.  I know it is all relative but you know, there is still time.  

We have gone abroad to Eugin in Spain but also now seeing a London clinic. The abroad thing was really about donor eggs for us.  Anonymous in Spain, not in UK so there were longer wait lists here.  A lot of people seem to rate Serum in Greece but I don't know - I think you have to do some research and go with what feels right.  Hard one to decide on..

And on the money front: my OH was out of work for a year last year and that is stressful in itself, so best of luck with that.  It is tough on you both with that to deal with too.  But after 250 job applications my OH got a job that he now loves so yeah, it can happen.  Just like a baby can!

Best wishes to you 
Roxy xx


----------



## chugabur1972

Hello Roxy, many thanks for the warm welcome  

Thank you for your kind and supportive words.  I'm so sorry to hear about your experience and hope that you get your little miracle soon  

I've been looking on the internet this evening at both Eugin in Spain and ARGC in London.  I don't know if I'm missing something but the price doesn't seem to be much cheaper in Spain.  I think for now though we will just relax.  Have a week away in the sunshine somewhere and wait for our follow up appointment in Dec before we decide what to do next.

Thanks again and best wishes to you too xx


----------



## Tiny21

Pleased to see you have come over here Clare xxxxx Lots of great information here too. xx


----------



## fififi

Hi all...

Well my consultation went okay - didn't get time to ask nearly half of my questions but consultant was still quite positive about our chances so we're now thinking that perhaps we should have 1 last try!!!
DH is adamant that it is to be only ONE more so now to decide whether to try OE again (15% chance of success but 40% risk of MC) or to go with DE (40% chance of success & 15% risk). We won't have money or emotional strength for either until Feb/March so got some thinking time. Equally I don't know anything about what DE options our clinic offer or costs so need to research that too. (As we are lucky to have DD already going abroad for cheaper treatment isn't an option as we'd need childcare & I wouldn't want to leave her for more than a night.)
For now I'm going to do the NK cell testing in next week or so (7-10 days after ovulation) - although my clinic now offers this am going to go direct to Prof Quenby in Coventry. It works out cheaper that way plus I'll have consultation with a new person who could just suggest something new.
I'm also going to have laproscopy in December as concerned my "suspected endo" is getting worse & this could be having an effect. Have had chocolate cysts on ovaries at least since IUI treatment 2010 and AF pains/bloating always bad. Not looking forward to surgery but if endo is found removing it now will give me final shot at natural pg.

Info possibly useful for everyone else:
- DHEA - my consultant felt this was the only one of the vits/supplements worth trying. (Clinic currently doing trial to see it's effect on ladies with low AMH - could take part but don't want to chance being on placebo) The trial is using 75mg a day and tablet form
- Eggs for freezing - whilst discussing my cycle he said "I wouldn't expect someone over 40 to have any eggs for freezing" 
- Normal at my clinic for age 42: 6-10 mature eggs, 1/2 of which to make blastocysts

If I think of anything else will update!

kirsty - was so jealous of your lovely long consultation last week!!! Wanted to tell consultant that I still had so many questions unanswered and that a friend had had an appointment that was over an hour and she now knew loads - but he was "due in theatre" so that was that!!!

MJ1 - enjoy time with your niece  

Roxy - hope you manage to have a relaxing weekend, you sound like you need it. Good luck with scan tomorrow  

Lesley - what a lovely friend. Just the offer will have perked me up so am sure you feel better for her having said that, shame she can't actually help.
Hope your mum is doing better  

chugabur - hello & welcome, but sorry you've had BFN     It's so frustrating that our hopes & dreams limited by not only our physical and emotional levels but by finances too. Hoping life starts smiling on you & OH soon  

moom, cornwall, cooljoules, tiny and everyone else - hugs


----------



## LellyLupin

Welcome to the mad house Clare  so sorry about your BFN we have all been there and know how hard it is.  My clinic recommended a clinic in czech republic I can't remember the name of it but as soon as it comes to me I will let you know, they were very impressed with it. xx

Rox I saw The Woman in Black it was meant to be scary but it wasn't really, I am not sure you can make a stage show scary    It was very well acted, though and it was amazing what they could do with 3 bits of scenery  .  On the busyness front I think everyones lives are like that now, well mine is, I have to plan my week in advance to get everything done and fitting DPs kids in all adds to the stress.  I even have to schedule myself an appointment  to dye my hair  

On the animals front I think the horses are going to go, I look after them for my friend but her life is so busy now shes not getting to ride, so has asked me to find them a home.  , I would take them myself but I have so little time it would not be fair.  I must say I will miss them so much after 8 years of looking after them    I feel like I am losing everything at the moment!

My friend who offered to carry a child for me,  is the new wife of the man who my bi-polar friend left at the alter, funny how fate turns out huh?  

On the moany mothers front I know exactly what you mean, don't they realise how lucky they are, what we wouldn't give to be stressed out by our kids huh?  How did your scan go?

Fifi your appointment sounds really positive 15% with OE is fab they usually say less than 5% for over 40.  I am glad you are going to give it another go, I am too, but you know I just can't seem to gather the strength to do anything about it at the moment so I am leaving it till after christmas, I find even thinking about it wears me out.  I am aiming for Feb/ March too so we may go through it all again together.  I am still contemplating a new clinic and I even researched my friends offer, though I don't know if its my eggs or I've got an implantation problem, if its my eggs it would make no difference who tried to carry them it wouldn't work.  I want the EEVA thing and am trying to find a clinic locally that is going to get it.  At least that test tells you if you are wasting your time or not OE wise.

Much love to you all and hello Tiny and MJ xx


----------



## Tiny21

Meant to say Fifi, thanks for info, love infor and consultants views


Hi Lesley. Xxx


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## Sushi Lover

Hello girls,

*Moomin*.... is your second AF still delayed? I'm 8 days late now. Hate the fact my cycle is all messed up and I can't plan my next treatment cycle 

*Lesley*.... Are you still waiting for second AF as well? Isn't it frustrating? Usually I'd be overjoyed to be late, but I just know it's because of my hormones being out of sync. Are you definitely having another go in Feb/Mar? Woohoo! I'm so pleased for you. I hope you find a clinic with EEVA machine honey. Have you contemplated the DE route? Such a tough decision isn't it?

*Roxy*.... I love the way you are looking at the egg donation. It's so refreshing for me to hear a different take on it as I'm strongly considering this route in the next few years if I need to. My new consultant said you have a lot more time to play with if you go for the DE option, and to not panic about it. It's nice to have 'time' for a change! I was talking to good friend yesterday who knows a woman at the school gate who regularly talks about her son from a donor egg. She is very open about it. The little boy has known from the start. She saw it that even though the egg didn't have her DNA, she was still supplying the nutrients to help the embryo grow inside her, her blood was coursing through the baby's veins and in that way, it was part of her. She carried her son for 9 months and gave birth to him. Part of her body had been used to help him develop and grow. It's a brilliant way of looking at it I think. Good luck for your scan today.

*MJ1*..... is your second cycle after the IVF out of sync as well? Have a lovely time with your niece!

*Chugabur1972/Clare*.... 'Welcome' to the thread. I know it's not the one you wanted to join. I hope you find it helpful. So sorry to hear about your BFN. Sending you a massive hug. We really do know how you feel. The NHS do my head in with their strict guidelines. I went to see my GP at 38 and was turned down because my OH has children from previous marriage! What has that got to do with it?! I know the government are pushing to raise the 40 age limit, but that could be years away .... I hope you have some success with your appeal. How about writing to your local MP? Afraid I have no experience on treatment abroad. But lots of girls have tried clinics in Cyprus, Greece (Serum) and the Czech Republic (Reprofit).. I believe there is a separate thread about clinics abroad? I don't think Spain is any cheaper. I know it's difficult to stay positive at the moment, and I hope you find a way to fund more cycles. My new consultant said you need to have at least 3, sometimes even 5 before getting a BFP. sigh... it's a long and difficult journey.

*Fififi*....glad your appt went well hun. There really isn't enough time for every question is there? Even with mine I still missed some things out!! Yay, one more try is brilliant. Glad you convinced your hubby. Not that long ago you were saying it was the end of the road, so I'm really pleased for you. Lesley is right, 15% is good! I would seriously consider the DE though. Especially as this is your final chance. 40% chance is an amazing stat! I'm having the NK cells test too... in a few weeks time. I think having the lapo is definitely the right way for you to go... endometriosis could well be a huge reason for implantation failure. Get rid of that and you'll have a clean slate to work with.

*Tiny21*..... Hello, hope you are well. Did you find another clinic? I know you were thinking of changing.

Hello to all the other lovely ladies that pop in and out of the thread. I hope you are all well.

xxx


----------



## LMB

I turned 40 yesterday and had to do my test following 1st iVF cycle yesterday too - as I told the Dr No pressure there then !  Unfortunately I  got a BFN   - was wondering how long after IVF cycle do you get a period... I am assuming the drugs can really muck your system all up.... I am usually bang on 28 days and following IUI's I would get period the day of testing if not day before...  Also how long do you wait before you start next IVF (I only have 1 opportunity left as I only have 1 straw of Donor Sperm left..)


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hi LMB, so sorry to hear about your BFN ... and on your 40th birthday as well.  Life can be so cruel.  Really feel for you 

I found this thread a real lifeline after my last BFN/failed IVF cycle, so I hope you can get the same support and advice as I did to help you through such a difficult time.  All the girls on here are brilliant listeners and advisors.

Re your question, with my first IVF my period arrived 2 days after stopping the progesterone (cyclogest) pessaries, my second cycle it arrived 4 days BEFORE my OTD!  So as you can see every person and cycle are different.  From info on this thread from the other girls I think between 2 and 5 days after stopping all the drugs is pretty usual.  My cycles remained quite consistent with the IUIs as well.  I think because of the extra drugs involved with the IVF during stimulation and the 2WW it can delay the period a bit longer.

With the wait in between, my last break was just 1 month... but since then I've seen a new consultant and he advises at least 3 months (the period after your BFN and 2 more normal periods, 3 normal ones are even better).  I know it's animal instinct to want to try again immediately and get back in the saddle, but I think it's a false sense of achievement because it can actually do more harm than good to not wait for the body (and mind!) to recover.  The ovaries, especially, need time to get back to normal.  Being patient is so difficult!  My second try had a much worse success rate in terms of stimulation, response, egg collection and fertilisation.  My new consultant thinks it's because I didn't have enough 'rest' time in between cycles.  I know every clinic has different views, so I'd be interested to know what yours says.

Take care  

xxx


----------



## Sazzmataz

Hi Everyone  

*Kirstlovessushi* That was a great consultation you had & very informative, thanku for posting such useful information 

Well I had my following up last week at Create. My left ovary was inaccessible behind my uterus leaving 2 large follies with possible eggs in behind, they also said although ovaries move around, mine wouldn't budge suggesting adhesions from my laparoscopy in December  so we have to assume that we wont be able to rely on any follies from that side in future.! Luckily my right side has an AF of 9.
Apparently they were pleased with my response to the protocol, bloods & lining all good. 
I questioned my egg quality & appearance of which they said my eggs were actually good quality especially for my age, shell wasnt thickened etc, obviously cant detect chromosome problems. I found Kirstys info really helpful regarding the array although Create dont offer this, It makes sense really if you get enough eggs to have them tested, although not cheap! 
My clinic has suggested increasing the drugs next time to get more eggs from the right side (had 4 eggs & had 4decent size follies, 2 medium, 2 small & 2 on left that couldnt get to! & to also do ICSI as they said there seemed to be a sperm binding issue? My eggs were good & DP's SA on EC day was normal morphology & 170milion & 65% motility! My eggs had attitude & wouldnt get jiggy!  So Icsi is our best step forward!
Plan to try again in January! Somehow, someway we will get the funds! Beg, borrow etc  
Got a treatment consultation plan booked for 19th December so have some serious begging & research to do in the next month! If we want to do array though it would mean changing clinics  Again!...
Just got my AMH results back today at 15.9! Doctor said good for my age? I'm just turn 43... Eeeek!..
Oh & my clinic advised against DHEA totally?... Advised me to leave alone for me..

Wanted to ask has anyone used melatonin? & what level? i have horrendous sleep problems & someone also mentioned its good for us ladies?
I really want to prepare myself for next time as feel i was quite naive going into this looking back! 
It's been an emotional few weeks & after hitting the depths of despair at not even reaching ET, was so crushed  i have picked myself up & am determined to move forwards to trying again somehow! I cant give up yet! We have to keep positive as hard as it is! 

Hope everyone is well & here's to all of us achieving our hopes & dreams  

S.x


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## artist_mum

hi  FFers  

Lesley - That looks good The Woman in Black, great that you got out to see it. I do think theatre is brilliant for a different kind of night out - we have a local one which is very good 'professional' quality am dram, I even got persuaded to be in The Mikado a few years back (in the chorus) which was great fun.  But I now realise I prefer to be audience side!  Sounds like you do loads with your life, and all quite time intensive stuff.  I know exactly what you mean about fitting in the Skids (awful name for them!) and the hair dye    Sometimes I am looking a little grey around the edges and thinking, "how did this happen?! - I don't even find time to dye my own hair" .  I'm sorry to hear about the horses going.  I know they take a lot of time but they are so so relaxing animals to be around, I love the sound of them snorting in their stables when all mucked out and ready for bed with feed and straw etc.  Aah, i bet you will miss them but then you know sometimes things end to make space for new beginnings.  How are the hedgies?  x

LMB - so sorry to hear about your test result, and not a good time to have to do that.  Poor you, that's horrid.  I hope you are looking after yourself and having some nice treats. Belated Happy 40th to you  .  Age is relative and from where I"m sitting, you are still v young!  My AF came 6 days after.  We have been told to wait 2 clear monthly cycles but will probably wait a little longer than that.  Although we are donor egg anyway so it is a bit different (ovaries not needing to 'rest up'!) x

Kirsty - What you said about the lady with the donor egg son is so helpful cos I think that is how we want it to be.  Really open and just knowing that there are kids out there with this scenario, it is not really such a big deal if people would just be honest and not cover things up.  It's nice to hear of somebody doing it that way, gives me hope that is can be ok.  Hope all is well with you and you are having an nice weekend x

Fifif - good to hear you got good info at your consultation and I think really sensible to check out the NK cells, hope that all goes to plan.  WIth the laparoscopy too it sounds like you are getting lots of stuff checked which is brilliant.  Lots of   for it sorting things out for your next cycle. x

AFM  Had my scan at ARCG, he said lining was fine and all looked OK which is good for a late bird like me   (my words not his!).  I think they are just working out whether i need a medicated cycle or natural and with or without steroids etc but to be honest, if we go back to Spain for the frozen embies which I think we have to (seems we can't legally bring them to UK) then we will have to do it Eugin's way which is medicated cycle (HRT).  Although ARCG could monitor everything for us and add the steroids etc as necessary.  I don't know why, but I just feel it is all doomed and we are just spending all this money and I don't know, I'm losing hope I suppose.  Going up to London each time costs money and energy and it just seems hard you know.  But I am very tired, so perhaps a weekend of rest might up my spirits again.  

Love to all, sorry not to mention everyone by name - but     to you all for your situations/cycles/weekends!

Roxy xx


----------



## helen3512

Hi everyone! Hope you don't mind me jumping on this one too?! 
I'm new to postiing on here but have read quite a few posts and my heart goes out to everyone who is going through this emotional roller-coaster.  
I am now 45 and re-married a few years ago and we decided to TTC. After a year of nothing, my GP referred me to the local Gynae dept where they decided that I wasn't ovulating regularly. I had all the usual tests which said there were no obvious problems for either of us (apart from not getting preggers!) and then miraculously in Jan 2012 I got a   !!!! Yeyyy! I had numerous scans and saw the heartbeat at 6 weeks & then went for my 12 week scan only to be told there was no longer a heartbeat    Absolutely gutted and then had to wait to be put back on the Gynae waiting list (they'd taken me off after the 6 week scan). 4 rounds of clomid later and day 21 tests showing no ovulation, I've now got an appt to see a different specialist with a view to being put on tamoxifen. 
I'll be asking them for a copy of all my test results and might consider having a private 'Fertility MOT' at my local CARE clinic to see what my AMH levels are - We've discussed DE but have decided that it's not for us...... 
My dilema is: at what point do I finally accept that I'm 45 and our time has passed us by?
I feel so down but am trying the mind over matter approach as well as fertility acupuncture...How have you all coped with this decision/journey?  
Has anybody else been given Tamoxifen?

Let's hop ethat 2013 brings some good news for someone (preferably all of us!)


----------



## LellyLupin

Hi Helen you will know when the time comes, I wouldn't give up just yet, especially when you can become pregnant on your own.  Your body knows how to do it so can do it again    Seriously keep trying you have been there once before xx

Roxy I am down to one hedgie now, Spike just disappeared, DP and I have no idea how or when but he has gone   Sonic is doing fabulously very tubby and healthy looking, I wonder if she ate Spike    Been out on Toby this morning and got soaking wet and freezing cold and just getting ready to go muck out again, would love to sit and watch telly but I can almost hear him shouting for his bucket - no rest for the wicked.

Don't lose heart yet, you still have a chance with your frozen embies, this whole process is so tiring I so know what you mean, but chin up girl you have a chance and this time could be it 

Well done on your result Sazz its all sounding very positive xx

So sorry about your BFN LMD, they say wait 3 months but I know thats very hard to do xx

Kirsty yes still waiting for second AF, I am going to have one last go with my OE, we are not going to go down the DE route I'm afraid.  DP is dead against it.  I really want the EEVA test though just to see if my eggs are any good.  And I want the sticky glue stuf too   And I want twins!!!  

Hello Fifi, Mj, Tiny and Clare


----------



## Moominmum

Hi All Lovely Ladies and a special Hi and welcome to *Chuga* (although technically you are still too young to be here  - I might as well say that as us oldies in this thread don't hear that too often!), *LMB* and *Helen*.

Firstly, I have had the intention for a week now to reply to all great posts since my last 2 weeks ago but that has only meant that I never write anything. Too much to say  So I start with this one to get back into the game.

*Kirsty,* it was with great interest I read about your consultation with CRM. Seems like a really good choice of clinic! What amazes me is that if the biggest issue for oldies is the quality of the eggs and there are several screening tests - why on earth don't they just do them as standard (of course at extra cost - nothing comes "free" here)? I mean what is the point in progressing with something that you know will fail? Also means that they would free up resources in the clinic later on in the cycle if you stopped earlier or is to that simple that most patients would like to proceed even if the screening would reveal "bad" results?

We had a split ISCI/IVF cycle and in our follow-up the consultant said that they could see abnormalities in the polar bodies of the ICSI eggs. But then I question why they proceeded and also, would they really perform proper PGS when you only pay for ICSI (which is about £1,000 and not almost £3,000)? It makes no sense that they actually do the screening but don't tell you about the results as you haven't paid for them!
EEVA sounds really interesting and really should be included in all over 40s cycles I think. Yes at the extra cost but really should be standard.

It is interesting what you say about AMH. It really seems to be "the test" for the time being but I am sure it will change. I think they use it (or "my clinic" did) to "forecast" how the patient will respond to the treatment. Still they don't get it right many times the first time around. So although AMH says something it is still only a small part of it all. I am sure that there will be something else to test soon enough (at more dinero of course) Well, that is my non-educated thought at least 

I will write more personals next time - I have followed this thread all the time so I am aware of what's going on.

AFM, gosh a time days I have had. So here it goes. It was lovely to have dad here. To start with. But as he is old and nowadays lives on his own (but with a huge social life) since my mum died 9 years ago he is so used to his own routines and well, let's say it, and not considering others. So it worked for 3 days and after that we had a big argument (trying to accommodate the needs of 3 males between the age of 3.5 and 73 is not doable! ) and for the last few days of his visit we didn't speak at all! I suppose I have to give in and apologise (but for what?!) one day when I am ready.

Anyway, using the CBFM I know that I ovulated as normally in my cycle after the tx but AF never arrived. So I decided on Monday (4 days late) to test for the "fun" of it and to my surprise I got a BFP. However the following morning I decided to try again and got a BFN . And the same evening AF came with some cramps. Without giving any details (about AF) something defo did happen but nothing to last.

Sorry for the lack of personals this time, but really I would never have posted again if I just didn't write something!

Big hugs to everyone   

Moominmum


----------



## fififi

moomimum -      
Have just read the last part of your post & now have tears rolling down my cheeks. Was really pleased for you when read BFP bit but then seeing what's happened since is just horrible. I can only imagine what a mixture of emotions you've been through this week and am so sorry that the good bit only lasted such a short time.
Hope DH has been able to support you and having your Dad there at same time as all this didn't make it even harder than it already was.

Parents have that effect on all of us I think. They're fine in small doses but over 3 days and it's pretty normal to fall out. It's even harder when you'd obviously been so looking forward to seeing him. Time will heal the arguments but from my experience it's likely to need you to make the first move.

Hi everyone else - need to disappear so no time for more personals I'm afraid. With DH in China I'm shattered after a weekend alone & hearing noises all night so not sleeping!!!! Now so tired think burglars will have to turn all lights on and radio to wake me up!!!  

Catch up soon


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## chugabur1972

Good evening ladies, just wanted to say thank you for all the warm welcomes.

I'm going to take some time to read through all your posts and get up to speed with everyone.  I've been meaning to do so the past couple of days but have been feeling a bit low and not able to focus so apologies for not getting back to you sooner.

I will no doubt get chatting to you all soon.

Take care and thanks again for the warm welcome.

Clare xx


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## Coolish

Hi Helen - I just wanted to say I'm sorry to hear your story. Also, I wanted to just say not to completely discount DE. When DE was first suggested to me, I completely rejected the idea. I didn't want anything to do with it. In fact I stuck my head in the sand for a couple of years TTC naturally. Then I started to read into DE a bit more and looked at clinics abroad with no waiting lists, anonymous donors and great results and my mind started to work through it properly. Have a read through some of the DE threads here, and read the various success stories. 

It hasn't worked for me so far, but I've recently had the hidden c test which has come back positive so I need a course of ABs before we look at our next cycle. Hve you had the hidden c tests?


----------



## cornwall

Morning everyone,

I just wanted to add to Cooljules post about DE. I also rejected it when DH and I first realised we weren't going to get a BFP easily. I had fertility tests done when I was 44 and the result was that everything was normal for my age (very helpful). So we decided to carry on trying and not get obsessive or talk about it as we didn't want to stress each other out. 4 years later, we finally had a conversation and accepted that we would never have a child of our own. We considered the options and decided DE IVF would be best. Now, after our first failed cycle, we really wish we'd started this process a few years ago.

So, my message to anyone in a similar situation is to definitely try with your own eggs but be realistic and make sure you and your DP have that conversation before it's too late.


----------



## artist_mum

Just a quickie on the donor egg debate..  I too would endorse the idea to at least talk/consider earlier rather than later.  I think actually in 10 or more years from now there will be a lot of kids out there like this.  And perhaps it won't seem like such a big issue.  Like the first IVF children which is now considered quite normal/ok.

We would also consider adoption and fostering.  And for me, a donor egg child is just that really - an adoption, permanently, of somebody else's egg!  But in this case, the child would not have existed unless you 'adopt' that egg... so that's something to think about: that you, the parent that gave birth to that child really DID bring that baby into being.  Without you it would not 'be'.

And I know there are tricky sides to the debate too (anonymous or not etc).  But as Cornwall says, good to have some chats about it in good time.

Big   to Helen, Clare, LMB - thinking of you.  Really.  And hope you start to feel better soon.  Chocolate can help  

Fififi - hope you got some shut eye  

Lesley - thank you for telling me to 'chin up'..  I know you are right!  Hedgie tales made me  .  More soon..

Moominmum - good to hear from you, So very sorry to hear your AF story - gosh, that is a real up and down short roller coaster ride. Sending    .  Well done though on at least getting through the parental strife without a complete fall out.  And yeah, sometimes with family we end up just letting it go - even though we know we were right and they are just being annoying  .  I know you are not alone with that kind of family stuff...aargh it's sent to try us  

Cooljules, cornwall - wishing you both loads of luck     with your journeys.   for you both.

Love to all
Roxy xx


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## hopeful68

Really late post, knackered!! Had a bit of a wend. Fall out and patch up with DH... Basically been in my doom and gloom bubble and forgot to share! Also have been off sex, mc for 2 wks followed by a week off then AF again didn't make me the most bouncy person!! All sorted, with the help of some wine!! I think it was full moon at the wend so ripe for arguments!! 
Had follow up this am, glad I sent the letter before hand as I would have forgotten stuff to ask! To sum up, for my ttc until birthday naturally. Consider DE from then or quit at use contraception to avoid monthly stress. Take multi vits don't worry about anything else. As I have had 2 empty sac pregnancies I have 80% chance again in a 10-15% chance of falling naturally. No point in blast unless they can't choose best embies. Other tests not worth the money for the risks involved. Possibly check thyroid with Gp but wouldn't have made a difference as guess what....... I have old eggs!! Chromosomal probs caused my issues! So been interested to read thoughts on DE tonight!! Any how must go in bed late got to get up early again!! Hugs to all.... M


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## nettya

Hi ladies,

I read through this thread this morning feeling like I had come home! I hit 40 in January this year so I hope I'm eligible to join you! As you can see from my signature we're on a lengthy journey to parenthood. We've just had a DE cycle ending in a BFN and have just signed back up to the donor egg waiting list at CRM where we feel most comfortable. 

Nettya


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## Sushi Lover

Morning lovely ladies,

*Sazzmataz*.... what a pain that your left ovary was inaccessible, sounds painful with the adhesions from your laproscopy. Is there nothing they can do to fix that? Thank goodness your right ovary had loads of follicles. Good luck for your next ICSI in Jan!! I'm sure you'll get enough money together. Lots of begging in order! The Array adds a good £3,000 or £4,000 onto the cost I'm afraid.  So it's out of reach for a lot of girls. It's funny with the DHEA, that some are for and some against. My consultant wants me to try it in the lead up to my next treatment cycle. I'm going to try again in Jan too. I believe the melatonin dosage is 3mg half an hour before bedtime. Give it a go! Stay positive hun.

*Roxy*....Yes, it's sounds like the way forward for people to be open and honest about DE. It wasn't so long ago that IVF was pushed under the carpet as people felt it was some kind of failure to not be able to conceive naturally and now lots of women are really open about conceiving with assistance. The sigma that used to be attached to infertility isn't so great any longer. A 'late bird' !! How rude!  What a pain you are being pushed into a medicated cycle when you aren't that happy about it. The whole process is so difficult isn't it? Never seems straightforward. 

*Helen*.... welcome to the thread. It really is an emotional rollercoaster! So sorry to hear about your loss at 12 weeks. That must have been devastating. Lesley is right though... if your body knows how to get pregnant naturally on it's own that's an enormous step. I'd definitely keep on trying. I've never been pregnant and am 40 years old. Never had a BFP and have been trying on and off for 7 years now. It's tough. My new clinic has treated women up to the age of 46 with their own eggs and has achieved a successful pregnancy/healthy baby. Are you thinking of trying IVF/ICSI with your eggs? You don't need to go down the DE route if it's not for you. I don't know anything about tamoxifen, sorry. What is it for? I'm not sure how I've coped to be honest. You just stick with it and get on with it... remain positive, gets lots of rest, relaxation and sleep... oh and take tons of supplements! I think my dream of becoming a mother one day will come true and I just try and keep that thought in my mind at all times. This site is a God-send as well for support and advice.

*Lesley*..... Sonic ate Spike?! hahaha. I am laughing! My AF arrived 8 days late. I didn't bother with a test... too stressful. I think I just ovulated late on this cycle. On my DHEA now! Re the DE situation, my DP isn't keen either. I can sort of understand why men would struggle with sperm donation as it's taking away some of their masculinity I suppose, inability to impregnate their partner in the animal sense...but with egg donations why are they against it? Has he said why? Would you personally go down that route? I wasn't keen in the beginning, but am slowly changing my mind. Les, it could be our only chance to become a mother! Did you find a clinic with EEVA yet? I want sticky glue and twins too! We don't want much do we?!

*Moomin*.... oh honey, I read your message and did a little scream when I saw the BFP, only to carry on reading and saw the BFN. Poor you. How upsetting. I'm gutted for you. Life isn't fair. I had one AF after an IUI with something that was later described to me as the 'cervical plug' coming away.. ugh. Sorry for that info. Shows you how close it can be. I think the screening should be included on all cycles as well. Surely they are going in 'blind' otherwise. My consultant says this will become the norm in the future.

*Fififi*.....Hope you are ok. I'm the same when DP is away. Check under the flipping beds, in the wardrobes and everywhere for burglars. Even though the alarm is set and all the doors and windows are locked. Bonkers!

*Cooljules and Cornwall*..... I feel the same as you two ladies about DE. I was dead against as well at first, but am slowly coming round to the idea before it's too late. We have to be realistic and sensible when making choices. DE is a brilliant option.

*Hopeful*.... Poor you with the row with DH. It's horrible when you get stuck in that gloomy bubble. Glad it's sorted now. Defo have a long, hard think about DE. What does your hubby think about it?

*Nettya*.... sorry to hear your last cycle has just ended with a BFN.  It never gets any easier. In fact, it gets harder. I hope this thread can help you with some support and advice. You've really been on a long journey to achieve your dream. I feel for you. Do you have immune problems hence the Intralipid Infusion and steroids? I've recently had a consultation at CRM. I really liked Mr Forman. He's a mine of information that man! Is the waiting list a long one for DE?

AFM, bit fed when AF arrived as you still hold onto a tiny bit of hope that a miracle has happened until that moment. Going for my NK cells and AMH test in 2 weeks. Until then I'm on all my supplements and now the DHEA that melt under the tongue (takes forever and do not taste all that good either!... why can't they be mojito flavour?!) Pouring with rain in London ... very depressing. On the plus side I'm off to a spa on Sunday for 2 days with OH. He loves a fluffy dressing gown and a massage as much as I do!! We really need this time together to rest and be on our own. I can't wait!

xx


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## MJ1

Afternoon Ladies,

Had a lovely trip last week to see my Niece, then spent the following day in Canterbury which was lovely. Hotel and food were lovely.  Home now and AF was due Sunday,  still waiting but have awful AF pains this afternoon, so probably down and out for another month  .
  
Had huge row with DP too on Saturday, PMT again  . and then felt really bad... ho hum.. 

Hope that eveyone's doing ok and glad to see consultations have gone as well as expected. Wish they had the all important answer as to why embies don't implant....  

Welcome to the new ladies too  
MJ1 xx


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## Sushi Lover

Hi *MJ1*,

Ah, that's lovely. How old is your niece? Canterbury is a really great town to visit. Every AF is heartbreaking isn't it? I was 8 days late and had a tiny bit of hope it would be a BFP... to no avail though. Just a cruel trick of nature!

Sorry to hear about the row with your OH.... Does he understand about the PMT? It's hard to explain it to a man!

Have you added any supplements since your last BFN? I can't remember whether you are on DHEA or not?

K x


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## MJ1

Hi Kirsty,

Thanks for your reply.. no DP doesn't understand anything about PMT and refuses to believe it exists.. he is a very caring partner but not on this front 

My Niece is 20, and studying Medicine at University. I love my Nieces very much, they are my closest babies..  

Yes well AF arrived this morning. Sorry to hear you were 8 days late, oh dear that woud have made me think so too.. I was due Sunday and arrived today and that was enough just a few days, kept trying to tell myslf to stay calm, had no symptoms so was kidding myself really.  

I already take Folic and omega 3 but have started drinking raspberry leaf tea and taking vitamin e both to thicken lining as I have issues there. I did look into DHEA after my consulation with Zita West, but after reading the side effects of hair loss and weight gain I decided against it.

How are you today? Sorry that was a bit of a me post.

MJ1 xxx


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## Sushi Lover

*MJ1*

Yes, hormones are a difficult thing to try and explain to our OHs. I don't know many men who are sympathetic! Luckily I don't really suffer, but I was a complete witch during the stimulation process and 2WW because of all the drugs. My DP tried to understand a little, but I could tell he didn't really 'get it' that you have no control sometimes and just flip out/cry/shout/sulk etc. It does sounds a bit rubbish to them I suppose when you say "sorry I was a total cow to you, it's my hormones" !! Sounds like a bit of a cop out to them I reckon.

You sound like you have a brilliant relationship with your nieces, you are so lucky. I'm the eldest and neither me, or my younger brother or sister have kids. My poor Mum and Dad are so desperate to be Grandparents, bless them.

Ugh, the hair loss and weight gain sounds pretty bad. I heard some women get facial hair, a deeper voice and oily skin/acne as well because of potential testosterone increase! Something to look forward to ... not! I'll let you know if any of that happens, been taking it for a week now. It's horrible what we have to put ourselves through isn't it?

I'm not too bad thanks.... feeling a bit low this week to be honest. Not sure why exactly. I think it's because it's coming up to Christmas and back in Feb when I started my treatment I thought I wouldn't be going through another Christmas without being pregnant... and yet it's nearly December and I'm no closer to achieving the dream! 

xx


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## Sushi Lover

OMG....  I've just read two other side effects as well....

Decreased breast size and increase in size of female genitals!!!  What the ****?!

They say it's just in high doses, 200mg or more, so hopefully my 75mg per day will be fine  

Like I need something else to worry about!

xxx


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## artist_mum

*MJ1*
I can completely relate with you on the PMS/argue with OH routine...... aargh! Been there  . It is a tricky one isn't it?! Good that AF finally arrived so you can move forward,  to you xx

*Kirsty*
I know I shouldn't laugh but that just makes such a funny picture: deep voice, fat and bald with tiny breasts and wopping great bits down below...... 

But let us remember that these lists of side effects on drugs are just possible effects and usually in a very small number of people and just a bit of the actual listed effect! Not the picture I got in my head when I read your post  . So don't go worrying.. I heard a lot of good things about DHEA.

In times of worry, just think 'bender in bun'..... and smile 

And one other thing: You ARE closer to achieving your dream. Check this out if you haven't already seen it: http://www.catchingrainbowsfertility.co.uk/news/article/21/what-to-do-when-ivf-hasnt-worked

Love to all
Roxy xx

/links


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## fififi

Hmmmmm if we all start on the DHEA sounds like we'll be needing to change our names to something better suited to having a spotty hairy face, deeper voice, no breasts and oversized genitals!!! Think I'll be Freddy!!!!     

Yuk - not liking the sound of these possible side effects at all. Need to order DHEA this weekend but now even less keen to start it. My consultant is pretty anti most drugs/supplements but did think there may be some benefit to DHEA so I'm going to give it a try.

Not posted much lately as feeling quite down since despite testing ovulation every day from "day 8" there's no signs of it. I need to ovulate in order to time the NK cell test accurately. Seeing someone at the clinic run by Professor Quenby for one off appointment so really need the test to show whether I have a problem or not as can't afford to do this test twice. Plus it needs to be done now, otherwise I'll have to wait until 3 months after laproscopy ... grrrrrrrrrr why does life keep giving me these traumas!!!!
Also going little stir crazy with DH away in China - thankfully now sleeping okay and not so stressed about every noise I hear in house, though do check front door is locked about 8 times before bed!

kirsty - try to think about all the stuff you enjoy about Xmas and focus on getting out and having fun where you can. Frustratingly it seems that shops are fuller than ever of mums with newborns just to rub salt into our wounds.

mj1 - glad your visit to see niece was fun. Will you see her again at Xmas?

nettya - hello and welcome

hopeful -    sorry to hear that you & DH fell out. I think this is one of the biggest problems with TX as despite needing support more than ever you end up further apart and not able to help/understand each other. I almost think that clinics should insist couples have counselling every cycle just to have an opportunity to explain in neutral way how each other is feeling.

moom - hope you're doing okay and not too broken after last weeks events   

hello to roxy, cornwall, cooljules, chugabur, lesley, helen, tiny, chandlerino and anyone else I've forgotten     

PS. Roxy our posts clashed ... have just read the article you linked to and think there's lot of truth in it so thanks for posting that. Will add to favourites to re-read when feeling down ... that and heading to BK to order a "bender in a bun"!!!!


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## dillydolly

MJ1 or anyone really!

Is raspberry leaf tea okay to have? 

I was lead to believe that it shouldn't be drunk til the last few weeks of pregnancy. I may be totally wrong! But I thought it could lead to implantation or even early bleeding problems..... I drank it in a natural pregnancy early on and I suffered some slight bleeding. Just before anyone panics I may well be wrong and I did go on to have a successful pregnancy despite the early scares!!


Maybe raspberry tea is better, made from the berries if that makes sense!


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## Moominmum

Oh girls, you do make me laugh!

*Roxy, Kirsty* the picture you put on my mind of someone taking DHEA - OMG I don't think I can sleep tonight!    I ordered it online and has kept it in the drawer (okay I chucked it in the wardrobe tbh  ) as I am too worried about the side affects.

*Kirsty* I believe that every day that goes that you are one day CLOSER to achieving your dream.

*fififi* Glad to hear you're less stressed in the house when your DH is away. I hope he is back soon though 

*MJ* Hormones/PMS/Arguing with OH - I think we can all relate to that! Although I sometimes end up crying for just everything instead of arguing.

*Lesley* How are you, your mum and your hedgies?  And how is EW's OH - alive?  Sorry I cannot get that story out of my head!

*Dolly*I have no idea about raspberry leaf tea. I find it so tricky the whole what to eat and what not to eat. Sadly it seems as if what I want to eat is a no-no and what I do not feel like is good... Is everyone completely abstaining from all good things in life (I am thinking wine, caffeine etc)? I just can't do it. I have found a spiced rooibos tea that I love but oh my it is so pricey! But at least it keeps my off my coffee.

Re the discussion about DE - although I am not considering that (at the moment at least) was it here someone said to see it as one "ingredient" that is nothing on its own? Like using and egg when baking - on its own there's no bread. That's how I see it anyway.

Everyone I missed this time - big HELLO! I am slowly getting back into posting again 

   to everyone


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## MJ1

Kirsty,
I think you and I are opposite, I am the only sibling that hasn’t produced a child and the only girl too. My Brother has my wonderful Nieces and my two Stepbrothers both have one each with another on the way! Heartbreaking…  Good luck on the DHEA I have heard it is great for egg quality and raising your AMH, mine is low, but I am personally not happy to take it.

Can soooo relate to you re Christmas coming too, we had out last IVF cycle at Christmas last year and my OTD was Boxing day! So not really looking forward to a) the memories of that and b) another year of not being pregnant or having a child in the family.. I think Christmas is the hardest and not the best time to cycle, would never do that again…

Roxy,
Thanks seems we all have a bit of PMT from time to time. Good luck with your cycle at ARCG have heard good things about Dr Taranissi . Is this your first cycle with them?

Fiffi,
Yes I will be seeing both of my Nieces at Christmas, we always get together. I normally see them twice as I see my Dad and Mum separately as they divorced when my brother and I were young.

Dillydolly,
I hear what you are saying and I have read things too. I only drink it at the start of my cycle up to ovulation then stop, as it has been linked to early labour and miscarry. It is just to get my lining a bit thicker and have heard it can help. I would rather go for natural things than more medication.

Moominmum,
I cry at the drop of a hat too, seem to have got very emotional in the last few years.

Hi to everyone else  

MJ1 xxxx


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## nettya

Thanks for the warm welcomes.

Kirsty - I do have immune issues. My NK cells are slightly elevated so they put me on a combination of steroids and intralipids to try and get them down to an acceptable level. I have no idea if the combo will work. When they test they test each of the three treatments (steroids, intralipids or IVIG) in isolation to see which one your blood best responds to.  None of them do the full trick for me so the combination is used. You would think they would test the combo to see the reduction it gives but no... Left to chance and hope.  I'm also given clexane and aspirin due to slight clotting issue.

Crm are lovely. I see Mr Theodoru rather than Mr Forman but I have met him. Mr T talked us through EEVA and didn't think it would be right for us because we generally don't have a problem getting lots of lovely looking embryos - DHs sperm is fine and as we are having donor eggs the egg quality is less of an issue because the donors are young.  He said that EEVA is for people getting small numbers of embryos or for us older ladies using our own eggs where the quality is more of an unknown.

He did tell me about a newish treatment called Embryogen.  This sounds really interesting. It's a medium that is used at transfer and appears to help people who suffer from recurrent miscarriage . I need to read more about it, but it looks like we will give that a go in our next cycle.

The waiting list for donor eggs at CRM is 6 months. This has held pretty much true to that for us in the two fresh cycles we have had there. I heard of a lady recently who was matched in 4 months. Fingers crossed it is that quick for us.

I don't mind having a bit of a wait, we are going to visit Marilyn Glenville's clinic to take a look at the 3 month pr conception lifestyle, nutrition and supplements programme that she has. I went to a talk by her at the Fertility Show and it was so inspiring and gave me new hope. I'm reading her book 'getting pregnant faster' at the moment and DH is looking horrified at the food plan we'll be on from Jan 1st!  Every little helps right? Has anyone else followed her advice?

Before I go, I just wanted to add my thoughts and experience to the donor egg question. We never had the chance to conceive with my eggs. We came off the pill to find me in early menopause with FSH levels that were off the scale (80 and then 120). So We had to adjust pretty quickly. We attended a preparation for parenthood workshop run by the Donor Conception Network and this really helped us to meet other couples in similar situations and to talk through all the scares and worries that donor conception throws into your head.  

As you can see from my signature I have been pregnant 3 times, once with twins, twice with singletons. Every one of those 4 babies was mine through and through from the minute that we got the BFP results. My heart when I saw and heard the heartbeats of the twins was lost to them. They are in you, you are growing you. The origins of the eggs do not factor at that stage, I assure you. If we are lucky enough to carry a baby to term, we will be telling them the story of their birth so that a) it is always part of their story rather than a late given shock and b) so that if they want to they can start the process to find out who their egg donor was when they are 18. I think this is really important.

So, that was quite long! - I'll try to get to some personals next time 

Nettya,


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## Sazzmataz

*Nettya* Hi  Wanted to say about my experience on Marilyn Glenville. I first attended her clinic 2003/2004 when i first discovered I had PCO, I wasnt ovulating, had irregular periods, had gained a stone in weight & felt generally rubbish!
I saw a nutritional therapist at her clinic & I started on a good supplement programme & had really good dietary advice! The weight came off & more. My periods became regular & i started to ovulate again. It didn't happen overnight but I can honestly say Marilyn Glenville's clinic & advice changed my life! My PCO is now very mild to non apparent!
So I say go for it you're in VERY good hands. I have added some different & xtra supplements into my regime now though, tweaking & finding what suits is the key, but Marilyn Glenville is definately a good place to start.
So wishing you lots of luck & may your next cycle be lucky for you   

*Kirstylovessushi* Thanks again for your great advice.  I don't know whether they can help with the adhesion thing as it would mean another laparoscopy, recovery & the risk of further adhesions  I have mild endo & also adenomyosis & also age & time not on my side, I'll be 43 next cycle. 
Not sure why my clinic were a definate No to me & DHEA? prob cos i do have mild PCO & adenom is like a fibroidous type thing maybe? My AMH is also 15.9 so not too bad for my age. I'm looking at lots of other things to help with egg quality tho, taking royal jelly, just ordered Zita West Vitafem Boost & extra B vits with inositol! PHEW! NOT cheap is it! I'll do anything that could help improve our chances  Oh & going to order the melatonin! 
I'd like to do the Array but my clinic doesnt offer this, If i change again, it will mean another consultation fee, scan & bloods, whereas at my current clinic i'll be ready to go. I do like Create & have spoken to a few successful ladies who have cycled there. 
It can drive you crazy researching etc & this journey! 

To everyone else* Moominmum,* *Fififi,* *Lesley, Roxy, MJ1, Cooljules, Cornwall, Chugabur,Helen & Hopeful, Hope you all well & taking a chance to relax between treatments etc.

AFM I need to chill & start being just Sazz & enjoy life with DP, maybe let my hair down for a cheeky 1 or 2, got Christmas parties coming up! & NO nagging  Lol... see how far I get with that one!! 

Hugs to everyone

sazz.x
*


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## Sushi Lover

Hi girls,

*Roxy*.....  What a hilarious picture! I can imagine everyone now thinks I look like this... how funny. I sound like Jabba the Hut from the Star Wars films!! Imagine him in a blonde wig wearing lip gloss.. that'll be me in a few months. It's a good job we can laugh about things like this  Yes, I'm hoping the percentage of people that get those side effects is negligible. I don't mind trying it to help my eggs to be honest. Will try anything! I'll have a read over the weekend of the article. Thanks for that.

*Fififi*.... Hiya Freddy, just call me Jabba from now on! My clinic haven't mentioned about getting the NK cell test done at a particular time of the month? They just said any time is alright. When's your hubby back? I bet you are really missing him.

*Dillydolly*... I've heard that raspberry leaf tea is to bring on labour in final stages of pregnancy as it creates uterine contractions, as you thought. I think that's why they say only in first half of the cycle so as to not hinder implantation, as MJ said. I have also heard it can regulate your cycles though so there are mixed messages there! So much conflicting info. I suppose in moderation it's fine.

*Moomin*.....I know! I sound like a total lunatic the picture Rox and I have painted  That's a good way of looking at DE.....Without the woman carrying the egg there would be no baby. Hope you are ok.

*MJ1*...... Christmas is one of those unique times when all sorts of issues are fresh in our minds isn't it? Whether it's because a family member is no longer with us, an EW or EH is making trouble, step children problems about when to see them, or there is friction between siblings or with parents. There is always something in every family! It's quite a stressful time. For me it's difficult because of the baby thing. I barely drink any alcohol now and that's always a 'problem' with others especially at Christmas. I'll have a few glasses of bubbly and then stop, why do people try and force more down your neck? Is it because of their own insecurities? My cousins have children which I like spending time with, but the questions about 'starting a family' will no doubt start again. My family think I'm a high-powered business woman who prefers my job to being a Mum. That I've chosen a career over motherhood. They couldn't be more wrong! Poor you with the memories of last year and Boxing Day. That is really tough. I hope you can have a nice time with your nieces to take your mind off sad times.

*Nettya*.... that's interesting about the immune issues, thanks for the explanation. Also good to hear about the waiting time for DE. Is 6 months about normal does anyone know? Is the Embryogen the embryo glue stuff to aid implantation? Mr Forman told me about that. Sounds good. I haven't followed Marilyn Glanvile's plan... is the food side of things very strict? Thanks also for the information about the parenthood workshop that the Donor Conception Network run. Sounds hugely helpful. Sorry to hear your very sad story, but it's good to hear your assurances about the baby growing inside being 'yours' and the egg origins issue do not even cross your mind once that BFP/first scan arrives.

*Sazz*... No worries. I'm now trying the DHEA, so I'll give you an update every now and again regarding the side effects! I bet you can't all wait! haha. I think that maybe because of your adenoms it wouldn't be advisable for you, also the PCO. Although I have a few cysts I don't have PCO or PCOS... my consultant was fine for me to try it. He just said "if cysts appear we can just aspirate them before the treatment". I don't blame you for sticking to your current clinic. It's a lot of upheaval. Create does sound good. Enjoy those cheeky ones! I'm out tonight and have told DP that for my one drink it has to be bubbles!! I can't waste my one alcoholic drink per week with a boring glass of regular wine 

Hi to *Lesley, Cooljules, Cornwall, Chugabar, Helen, Tiny, LMB* and *Hopeful*. Have a great weekend ladies and big hugs to all that need one.

xxx


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## LellyLupin

Hi ladies sorry I haven't posted for a while I have been ever so busy. It will take me a while to catch back up.

This weekend I met up with with some of DPs long lost family who I traced a few years back.  I took a chance and wrote them a letter  earlier this year and it was our first meeting on friday night.  It was so emotional to see DPs Mum meet her brother for the first time after 66 years of being an only child, it really couldn't have gone better and DP now has a whole new family in Scotland and in Cyprus.  It turns out DPs mum also has another brother and a sister too!

On the Hedgie front Spike is still missing in action and Sonic is looking ever so fat and healthy.  Shes far too tame though and  doesn't even bother to curl into a spikey ball anymore - probably because shes so fat.  Mum is on the mend now too so all is well on that front.  

I met up with my pregnant friend last night which was very very hard, shes 5 months pregnant now and really showing.  I think I did a good job of covering up my feelings, but I must admit when she asked me to feel the baby moving I nearly gave the game away.  I couldn't take my eyes off her bump and of course it was all she wanted to talk about, I even got both of the scan pictures thrust upon me.  I have felt very sad today and have been quite withdrawn from DP.  There just seems to have been babies everywhere today and I really can't believe that I may never have a child of my own to love.  It just crushes me sometimes.

Kirsty I did look up the EEVA clinic and the closest one to me is in Newcastle, I also want to find a clinic that does the sticky glue thing as I think thats where my body goes wrong.  On the DE topic I am undecided, DP is dead set against it but sometimes in my panicky moments when I think I am never going to have my own child I do think about it. 


Hopeful and Mj hope you have made up with your respective partners now and are feeling a bit better and happier xx

Been reading about DHEA side effects, what does DHEA actually do?  I already have PCOS so would it not be good for me?  

Fifi is your husband back from China yet, glad you are finally getting some sleep?  

Moomin yes EW OH is still alive as we go to press     Its a good story isn't it I still can't quite believe she did it but she did!  She hasn't been too mad lately we are having a bit of a lull - it must be christmas  

AF has arrived now,  so one more and I will start looking into a new clinic and giving it another shot.

Nettya how heartbreaking for you to have had 4 babies and to lose them all, you must be a very strong lady to still be standing up after so much pain  

Hi Sazz, Dilly, Roxy, Jules, Cornwall and everyone else I have missed I promise to keep up in future.

Much love and hugs to all of you lovely brave ladies xxx


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## LellyLupin

Great thats all we need, now William and Kate are pregnant thats all that will be on the TV


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## nettya

I know what you mean Lesley - I just saw it on ******* from about 50 different messages - it's everywhere. Avoid all papers, TV, social media for the next few years folks. I don't have too many pregnant folk around me at the moment, at least not in visiting distance, but I sympathise with your meeting with your friend. During one of my miscarriages my boss and two colleagues all had their mat leave parties while I was away recovering. It's so hard.

And, yes, I'm still standing. You have to don't you as the alternative is pretty bleak. I have been surprised at the strength I have found in myself - I didn't think I was this strong. I'm so pleased DH and I have turned out to be this strong - this has been our married life so far. If we can get through this we can get through anything! This is despite EVERYONE in my current cycle thread seeming to get a BFP apart from me. I can't stay away from it though - glutton for punishment.

Sazz - thanks for the Marilyn Glenville comments. It's good to get an endorsement. Enjoy your Christmas parties!

Kirsty - embryogen isn't the glue stuff - that's embryoglue. this is a different product which looks to help ongoing implantation rates for people who have miscarried - here's a link. http://www.origio.com/products/medicult%20media/embryogen.aspx

The Marilyn Glenville diet approach is pretty straightforward really - wholegrains, fruit and veg a plenty, oily fish, eggs, nuts and seeds and lentils etc, no red meat (!), limited poultry and dairy. And no.... sweets, chocolate, crisps, cakes, refined processed foods etc. All the obvious things. We've switched our diet already before the consultation (well, we're half way there. It is Christmas soon after all) and will start in earnest in January along with the supplements. Hopefully the treat food and wine savings will cover the cost of the supplements... yeah right!

Hi to everyone else - slowly getting to know you 

Nettya

/links


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## susiemarmite

Hi - after 11 IVF cycle (3, own eggs and the rest donor eggs) I can offer up a few questions regarding implantation failure.  Firstly, there is the whole bloods thing - where they do a set of expensive blood tests to explore whether you need a different drug regimen - it's often referred to as the Chicago tests ...  

a new initiative the clinics are doing is around ERA - endometrium receptivity assessment -this is new stuff -  the theory is that the window of implantation is a very short one (albeit controlled by the progesterone supplements you are on) ... they do a mock cycle, and take a biopsy of the endometrium lining and test it ... to see if the endometrium is receptive ... or not receptive - if it's not receptive, they can replay the day they put the embryos in (as opposed to the typical pattern)

the other theory -this is donor eggs - is one out of the lead clinic in the USA - the batch theory -they believe entire batches of eggs can be duff ... so when you buy donor eggs - typically you buy a cycle, and get as many as 8 embryos from this exercise ... (as I did). - the theory is that the whole batch can be duff ... so in California at Shady Grove they do embryo sharing - whereby you effectively can buy a number of eggs of different donors - thereby avoiding the risk of getting a completely duff clutch of eggs and wasting months putting them all in

so - a few theories there on why IVF doesn't work ... albeit some specific to donor eggs ... 
your bloods / environment in the uterus
the endometrium ... the condition of the lining at time of embryo transfer (not just the thickness but the mix of chemicals therein)
the eggs themselves - in terms of batches

some learning along the way ...


----------



## MJ1

Morning Ladies,

Kirsty, thankyou for your thoughts. I know it is hard and will be this Christmas but I can enjoy being with my Nieces. At least they are now of the age that I don't feel sad that I don't have my own because they are not babies anymore.

Lesley, Yes we had a nice weekend thankyou, what a change from last week.. much better and nicer, back to normal for now    I had the same thought after yesterday's baby news. A friend if mine wrote on ** , "what lovely news a royal baby", I felt like writing     hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Susie, So sorry to hear that you have had a hard time, very brave lady to go through IVF that many times.Thankyou for your post, very interesting, especially implantation issues which seem to be the one thing that no one can answer!

AFM, feeling a bit sad today, as my poor Dad is burying his best friend. Not sure if you saw it on the news a couple of weeks ago he was stabbed in his own house in Fulham. Killed by a burgular..... terrible. Plus my Dad had a heard attack just before Christmas last year and had a quadruple heart bypass on 21st December, he was devestated when he heard the news as he was his business partner and friend and had known him for 45 years... . Such a sad way for a friend to die. 

Hello to everyone else

MJ1 xx


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## Chandlerino

Hello ladies!

I wondered if I could ask your advice......

You know that at our age every cycle counts. I have a dilema as I ovulated on Sunday and have a hysteroscopy appt on Friday this week which I've waited 4 months for. I don't know whether to go ahead with it or not and rule this cycle out. Its not a hysto under GA just a NHS gynie one. I could cancel but the next available is 7 Feb! 

Arrgh don't know what to do! What would you do??


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## MJ1

Hi, I would go ahead as it will/should improve your chances. Good luck MJ1 xx


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## LellyLupin

I would too Chandlerino it can only help  xx

AFM having a down day as wondering at my age whether anyone has ever gotten pregnant through ivf and whether its worth pursuing or not   Just applied to another clinic who said I had a less than 1% chance even with my high AMH and my low FSH levels.  When I applied at my current clinic they said I had a very good chance, I wish someone really knew and weren't just guessing.  I also wish I knew if my problem is my eggs or if its a sticking problem.  Sorry for the poor me post I know we are all in the same boat


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## Sazzmataz

Hi Ladies 

*Chandlerino* I would have the hysteroscopy as it could help & improve your chances. 
Your clinic recommended DHEA to you even with PCO? My clinic said definate no to me even thinking of it? I'm going to be 43 when i start my next cycle! I do also have mild endo & dreaded adeno so maybe that's why? My AMH isnt too bad but there's always that age related issue regarding eggs. Whatever you decide, wishing you lotsa luck & positive energy 
*Lesleylupin* I understand what you mean, why cant it be more straightforward. Why did clinic give you such a negative response?  Your AMH is amazing & FSH too. From what i can gather DHEA isnt suitable for ladies with PCOS? What exactly does the DHEA do? Does anyone know? Are you doing anything different to improve egg quality Lesley? Whenever you feel down, remember we're all here for for support 

AFM Got a very sad occasion on Thursday  A friends 4 wk old baby died suddenly & it's his funeral on Thursday. I'd like to support her but I dont know if I can cope with going to the funeral, a few of our other friends will be there. I have said i'm always there for her whenever she's ready & needs someone. i know the darkest days are to come, at the moment she is still numb. I know that pain she's feeling right now as i've been there, but i really dont feel i can cope, I'm scared as I feel I'm back there when I lost my Poppy. I've never got over losing her & still will get out of control down times. Am i selfish? I can be there & offer support in the days, weeks to come.

Hi to everyone else, hope you all ok, I'm going to blow as many bubbles as i can to everyone for future good luck  

S.x.


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## fififi

Hi all...

Sazzmataz -    - situation with your friend is so, so hard. You will never get over loss of Poppy and events like this are going to remind you of how much pain you felt/still feel. I know the funeral will be hard on you but would you friend need you, who understands her pain, there with her? If it was me I'd ask myself whether if the situation was reversed would I want that friend in particular there to support me. Her partner, family and other friends will be there too but will any of them really know how she's feeling except you? Equally if you don't feel that you are up to the funeral then I'm sure she'd understand if you let her know that it was not because you didn't value her baby just that it isn't something you can emotionally cope with in public.

Lesley     - there are ladies who get pg naturally at 45 so with IVF you do still have hope. It's a limited chance but it is still there. My consultant said that 40-45 ladies should have a 5-15% chance of conceiving. We went into our first IVF cycle with my poor AMH looking at the 5% chance and the clinic still felt it was worth us doing - their "older lady" stats are high for UK so don't think they'd have chanced messing them up if it was impossible

chandlerino - I agree with others and say have the hysteroscopy. I am also forfitting this cycle in hope of better things and having NKcell biopsy on Friday - so here's to a natural Xmas miracle for both of us following month off with medical intervention      (Oh, and wishing natural miracles for all our "friends" on this thread too!!!     )

Must dash as stacks to do so will catch up soon xxxx

PS. DH back from China now so sleep resumed!


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## Sazzmataz

*Fifi* You worded that so well, thankyou  My friend has already said that she understands if i didnt feel able to go & knows I'll always be there, I keep contact with the baby loss support group, it helps to have people understand. When i think of some of the crazy things i did after I lost Poppy! absolutely lost the plot & for a good few years after. I wasnt really aware of anyone else being there at Poppy's funeral apart from my mum. 
I will ask work if I can take the day off. Thankyou Fifi  

Wouldn't it be brilliant if we all got Natural Xmas Miracles    

Hugs to everyone

S.x.


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## de_vi

hello everybody, just a very quick post to say I will be back on this thread - missed miscarriage at 7 weeks, D&C was on Monday... still quite numb from it all, such a shock after all the joy we went through first. Gosh this is one long journey, isn't it?

 to all. de_vi


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## LellyLupin

Oh De-vi no!  I am so very sorry for you, I never expected to see you on this thread.  You are right this journey is such a traumatic experience.  Take care of yourself xxxx


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## artist_mum

A lot of sad things on this string recently. My heart goes out to everyone who's having tricky times.

*De_vi * So sorry to hear your loss, I don't know what to say to you except that we all feel for you. Sending you , take care of yourself in a really difficult time. x

*Sazzmataz* Your poor friend, that's terrible news. And then of course it brings up everything for you, what a very hard thing for you to deal with. Sounds like you have a plan after chatting on here and I just wish you all the inner strength you need to cope with it all. Thinking of you. x

*Lesley* Chin up gal  I know though. I know what you mean. How on earth are we supposed to 'think positively' when we get offered these statistics. It does make me wonder though when it was 0.5% chance of getting pregnant naturally at 46 and it happened to me (although mc). So statistics are just statistics. Anything can happen. It really can. Good to hear that mum and hedgie 1 are doing OK now. Gosh, that reunion sounds amazing - well done for organising it, it sounds like it was really special. You are very lovely to make that happen for your DP's family, his mum must be so excited to know she has siblings. And I think you are amazing to go and do the good friend thing as well, it is so incredibly difficult particularly when people don't understand or know how you feel. I still find it weird that she doesn't think of how it must be for you but I guess you have explained that she isn't quite 'right' with some of her thinking. And perhaps she really does believe that you gave up on that journey. But well done for keeping it together. And DON"T give up on that journey!! x
*
Chandlerino* - I agree. Although that is a tricky one. But on balance I think losing 1 possible month is better than losing a few months waiting for the feb appointment. Hope you make a good decision and it turns out well for you x

*MJ1* Gosh that's terrible! What a very sad ending to his life. No wonder your father is upset, that must be an awful shock to have a friend die in that way. Hopefully the heart treatment has got him in reasonable health now - both my father and stepfather have had similar, they can do amazing heart surgery these days. But yeah, a very sad time for him. Hope you are doing Ok yourself x

*fifi *Good luck with the NKcell biopsy on friday. Let's hope that swings it for you! will be interesting to see what the results are..... x

*susiemarmite* That's very interesting your post, thank you. I am going with DE so interested in that batch information, I can see how that could happen. I feel we are in the lap of the Gods with that bit. Well.. with all of it really  So yes, some good thoughts to ponder. x

*nettaya* Hmmm a royal baby. You are right, it's gonna be information overload! Saw in the paper yesterday "Kate could be having twins" - which was presumably based on her being in hosp for extreme morning sickness. Ho hum... maybe "Kate could be having one". I mean really, couldn't we just wait until they tell us what they actually are having?! Oh well, i suppose it is just something else to fill the papers with. But yeah, it does rub it in for us that are having to wait. Also admire your strength - and what a wonderful way to look at it, that your marriage has withstood so much challenge - that is a good thing x

Kirsty, Moominmum, Cooljules, Cornwall, Chugabur,Helen, Hopeful and anyone else reading - hello chicks  hope you are all OK

 to all
Roxy xx


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## artist_mum

Lesley
just wondering about your question, 'is it my eggs or is it a sticking problem?'.  If you were being very logical about that, then you could say that if you DID use Donor Eggs then you could possibly eliminate the eggs issue (i know there is no guarantee with donor eggs but you usually get 'younger' eggs). 

Sorry I know it is a sensitive thing to say and I know that your DP is not keen on DE but anyway it is just a thought.  

Maybe you could ask a few clinics for their opinion about this without waiting for appointments. You know, just email or have a phone consult with some abroad ones.  I think that at Eugin (in Spain) they would automatically suggest donor eggs but you know these clinics do email/phone consultations where you could ask the questions without having to pay or wait for an appointment.

Not sure if you have considered going abroad though..?

Roxy xx


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## MJ1

Morning all,

Oh dear I am so sorry to hear all the news on here today. My heart goes out to all of you that are going through difficulties.

Thanks Roxy for your kind words, yes he is shocked and has come on considerably since his op last December, just so happy to have him still with us. 

AFM, well I ovulated today.. bit of a shock as I am only day 8, my ovulating days vary so much last month I was day 16 weird.. it is rarely the same day each month. Anyone else have really early or late ov days?

Big big     to all

Love MJ1 xx


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## LellyLupin

Thanks Sazz I appreciate the support.  The only thing I am going to do differently is to eat better and try and have a more positive outlook.  I don't know why the clinic were so negative, I went on one of their open days and they were really positive,  I am totally suspicious of the clinics and wonder whether they really do want to help or if its all about the money.  In one breath they said I had a less than 1% chance but they still offered me a cycle for 6.5k  

I really don't think you should go to your friends babys funeral.  I am sure she will understand or will be in no fit state to even notice, and you can be there for her when the pain hits later when what has happened gets through the numbness shes feeling now.  I don't think it will do you any good to be faced with something that brings back such painful memeories for you.  You need to look after yourself,  and its not selfish as you can be there when its all over and everyone else has got past it, you know how she feels so you can be her rock.  You won't be able to help if you are not Ok in yourself  

Fifi what you said does make sense - I guess they wouldn't want to mess up their stats would they.  I like your 5-15% chance much better    Glad DH is back and you are getting some quality sleep again xx

Kirsty I know exactly what you mean about the drink at Christmas and the questions.  I am teetotal and it really bothers some people, I mean why do they care what someone else does or doesn't drink.  I get so annoyed when people insist and its even worse when they buy you a drink anyway and then get huffy when it goes to waste.  

Roxy thanks for being so nice, I do feel good about DPs Mum now having her siblings, it all feels right now somehow, she didn't know who she was and now she does so alls right with the world.  I have come to the conclusion that my friend really just doesn't think about my feelings or anyones elses either, I have an awful feeling I am going to be God Mother too    On the eggs front I have decided to go and have my 'talk' with my consultant after christmas and make a decision from there.  I know I won't be able to persuade DP on the subject he is adamant, but I do think about it sometimes.  My God-daughter came to visit last night and just being around her made me think I probably will try again. Its funny she looks more like me than her mum and when we are out people always assume shes mine, oh to be able to say yes she is  

MJ Wow what a terrible thing to have happened, I didn't see the story in the news, but I hope they caught the burglar and he goes down for life. Your poor dad, its awful to lose a close friend but a hundred times worse in such tragic circumstances, I don't know whats happened to our society lately people are like savages now. xx

Susiemarmite you post was really interesting especially the batch of eggs bit for those of us using DE, I was interested in the implantation bit as I am wondering if I am having sticking problems, and wow 11 ivfs how brave are you thats a hell of a lot of trauma to go through xx

Hello to Moomin, Nettya, Jules and everyone else XX

PS I am sick of hearing about the royal baby and it hasn't even started yet, on the day the news broke our lawyer at work rang to say his wife had had a baby girl,  and then I got a text off one of my friends to tell me she had had a baby boy 2 hours before.  Honestly I sometimes think there a conspiracy going on 'lets see how many times we can   Lesley off in one day'


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## artist_mum

*Lesley* - sounds like a good plan to wait til the consultant chat after christmas.. I hope i didn't offend you talking of DE again. I know it isn't simple. None of this is simple.

I think the conspiracy has been also targeting me! I found myself avoiding the news on TV last night because I didn't want any more information on the Kate pregnancy - and let's face it, this has only just begun  I mean I like the royals and all that, and good for them HOWEVER.. let's not have it all over the news please!

God mother huh! It sounds like that could happen, but I'm sure you will cope beautifully. I assume you would accept? Or do you think that is too hard really? Anyway, I hope you are preg by then 

*Mj1* - Mine was day 10 this month which is early for me, usually 13 or 14. So i thought that was interesting and just checked it on wikipedia which says: 
"ovulation is on average at 14.6 days, but with substantial variation both between women and between cycles in any single woman, with an overall 95% prediction interval of 8.2 to 20.5 days." So there you go - we are both normal and within the range of 8 to 20 

AFM Just working out if and when we go to Barcelona for the FET.. We were thinking early in the New Year but it is all so complicated with dates and having a medicated cycle and 2 clinics involved (1 for transfer, 1 for immunes). And then the EW and DP's kids and studying..... how does everyone fit this stuff in with the rest of their lives?? I find it all so stressful at the very time I should be calm and relaxed. And I worry about not taking all the right supplements etc. This is definitely the hard way to become pregnant 

Hi to everyone else. Cold nights and winter all set in - hope you are all keeping cosy 
 s to all
Roxy xx


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## LellyLupin

Gosh no Roxy I am not offended at all, I think if he didn't have kids already he would be open to it.  However he has his gene pool already  so can't see the point in having anymore, if he had his way we wouldn't even be trying with my eggs. 

Oh the Royal baby thing is going to run and run, what will she have, what will she call it, what will it look like and so on and on and on - sigh!  I am pleased for them really but did have a tiny moment of envy and regret that I hadn't had kids earlier in my life, when it would probably have been easy - oh well we are where we are I guess. 

Yes I would accept to be God Mother I am sure she'd be really upset if I turned it down, shes even asked me to be there when she has it, I draw the line at that though    

I know just what you mean about fitting everything in, I am now thinking about going abroad for treatment and wondering how it would all work.  This is definitely the unpleasant way to get pregnant, fertile people just don't know how lucky they are !!  I am sure you will work it all out though Roxy you seem to be a very organised lady.

Hmm just went to feed Sonic and the little madam wasn't in the cage.  I swear these little creatures are a lot more intelligent than we give them credit for, she has worked out how to undo the latch.  I eventually found her in the hay sack in full hibernation mode so shes here thawing out on top of a wrapped up hot water bottle.  What with her, the horses and the dog I never have the chance to get cosy I am always bloody freezing  

Lesley xx


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## hopeful68

wow, just had a skim through a few pages i missed. not on line at home every day - working from home today (or not as i am on here!!). so many heart breaking stories and complicated emotional issues. so glad we can vent on here. so a big hug to those who need it.  i really hope next year brings a bit of positivity to us all, whether that is a pregnancy or the acceptance it just aint going to happen!! i think i am edging more to the latter. i have been pondering the suggestions of my clinic - reinforced by a letter from the consultant during the week: give up/go on the pill, donor eggs, natural 10% chance with 80% chance MC - so virtually nil!!, or another round of my eggs - low low chance of success. this has really strained us as a couple, i did get really distant from DH, we are almost back to Ok again but my work and course work is now causing issues, also he is stessed at work so all in all a bad 4 months really!! no one setting out on this journey realises the mental & emotional strain it causes. therapy should be compulsory! 
i am working tomorrow but sunday will be shopping for food and christmas stuff!! also going to put the (plastic) tree up, forcing a bit of christmas spirit in to the house!! been so caught up with stuff i missed my best friends birthday!! - she is 6months older than me and has just had a mamogram for a lump and awaiting the results - nice birthday she had! - sort of puts a perspective on things. hoping it is a cyst for her, but i know 3 ladies my age - all survivors of breast cancer but what a horrid few years they had! it is one of my concerns with more cycles - mucking my hormones about with cancer in the family......

on that happy note, better get on with some work!!


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## LellyLupin

God sometimes I hate DP, just had a huge row about me wanting to try the Serum Clinic in Athens.  Why can't he understand that I just want to give myself the best chance of having a family    Its Ok for him he has his children and if he hadn't been such a liar when we first met I wouldn't be in this situation.  Sometimes I wonder if I can ever really forgive him and would I be better off leaving him and trying to find someone else.  I HATE this situation!


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## fififi

lesley -     - all our relationships are under so much stress from this whole ttc thing that dominates every aspect of our lives. Even if you were both feeling the same way about hopes/dreams you'd still argue more than you should. I'm lucky in that my DH wants a child & is willing to sacrifice quite a lot to get there but even so he doesn't understand why I can't just accept IVF has failed and that I can't just "draw a line under it" - grrrrr!!!!
Can't offer any useful advice on best ways to persuade but wanted to let you know that I'm supporting you in feeling frustrated in your desire for the best chance & not being able to at least try for that chance.

hopeful -     - I'm in pretty much same position as you right now from what chances my clinic have given us and trying to make a "sensible" decision as to what next and that is causing lot of friction with me & DH. I think men can switch emotions off quicker and once make a decision they just move on. For me even though I entered into our IVF cycle in Oct saying that it was to be our last shot 2 months on I can't just let it drop and don't feel ready to just abandon my hopes/dreams. The whole TTC issue affects so many aspects of our daily life that I'm not sure there's ever a time I completely switch off from it. It's hard to imagine actually having a "normal" relationship with DH again where we're not just doing things cos it's a good time as opposed to there being any desire there. All the books about IVF stress the need to maintain "fun in a relationship" but that's bl**dy hard/impossible when in your head you always know what day you're on etc.
Hope you manage to have a more relaxing day tomorrow and putting up the tree creates some fun & laughter for you & DH

AFM: Had NK testing today and consultation was really insightful - will post more when got time. Despite not having ovulated they were still able to take the womb biopsy so now need to wait 5/6 weeks for results. Not as painful as I'd thought it would be which was a relief.

Hugs to all & hope you have good weekend xxxx


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## LellyLupin

Hi Fifi thanks I know you are right.  DP said he is just trying to protect me from disappointment and he is worried about money.  I think he feels a huge amount of guilt (and rightly so) and doesn't know how to react as I am so tightly wound at the moment.  Your kind words have helped and I understand that all of us are in the same boat.    Glad your NK testting was so bad after all and looking forward to hearing the result x

Hopeful I hope you are feeling a bit better and putting your tree up has made you feel a bit more in the Christmas spirit    Your friends situation really does put things into perspective and aside from all our issues at least we are healthy and here to tell the tale Big


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## artist_mum

*Lesley -* just saw your posts this weekend - sorry to hear that it has caused arguments, it is SO hard and like fifi says, this puts such a strain on everyone whatever the set up. I do feel that having step kids adds a whole other angle to this because you end up looking after children, loving and caring for them and yet always living with the knowledge that they are not your own. Sometimes I think it makes it worse, although you get to 'parent' them in some degree, yet they are like evidence of NOT being your own. Like those moments when people in the shop say to your SD 'mummy could buy that for you.. (or whatever) and the SD says "this isn't my mum" and you just smile, knowing of course that you're not but that you have run around all weekend doing the jobs a mother does and that you would dearly like to be one! My SD just smiles now, which is sweet and doesn't say anything. (it always seems daft as i have dark hair and she is completely blond so hardly look alike anyway 

I also think it makes barriers between DPs and us - because they ARE parents. Not insurmountable barriers, but yeah, it is a big difference to be a parent or not to be. We have had big rows in the past over this. I feel that if we didn't have DPs kids, we would have done far more, and more quickly to have our own. It's so hard, and I really feel for you as you are obviously a very caring person. Don't forget that DPs are men (in our case!) and so when they say negative stuff, well, yeah, it could well be that he is concerned for you/for money etc. But it's important to trust yourself as well, and quietly and calmly try to do what is right for you. Just as you do what is right for his kids and for him the rest of the time.

A counsellor recently said this to me: you are looking after everyone and who is taking care of you? DP does take care of me, and does his best. But women do often get this I think where they do a lot of caring and with stepkids there is an unnatural demand which you have obviously done a great job with. On the leaving the DP front I would only say that in our time of life, if you leave a relationship you will find another one at some point - with a whole different set of stuff! Noone is perfect and you two have obviously been through a lot together. I"m sure you can make this, and you know, if you do become pregnant, just imagine the joy for the 2 of you then... Don't give up if your heart is still in it and you still want it.

So best of luck and sending you loads of    for feeling OK and for finding the way forward xxx

*Hopeful* - you really made me think with your post about the friend and the mammogram. We are lucky to have our health, and yes, anything else is a bonus. I hope her results come back with 'cyst' only. Hope you tree is up by now, we haven't got that far yet! And hope you and DH get some good time together this festive period - i know that we argue with all this general stress and fertility too - it's a lot isn't it?! xx

*Fifi* - well done getting your testing done. It sounds like a more invasive test than the immunes I had (just a blood test). Hopefully that will give you some good info to move forward with. I know what you mean about those romantic moments & the strain of IVF - I think it shows a strong relationship that can handle this at all really. xx

AFM Have now just found out that frozen embryos can legally be flown to UK and transfer done over here so we are trying to work out whether to do it that way, how much it all costs, which clinic would organise it etc etc. They should start up a degree programme at university, like a BA (Hons) Fertility Management. Agate would already have an honorary one for all her knowledge  I would be doing quite well on coursework so far!

Hi everyone else 

Roxy xx


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## LellyLupin

Aw Roxy thanks so much for your kind words  , only another stepmother could understand the third dimension stepkids can bring.  You are so right it makes it even harder when you have to care for kids that aren't yours,  its like being reminded over and over again that you are not a mother as you say.  DPs kids are both blue eyed white blonds and I am a bit spanishy looking so I stand out like a sore thumb in family photos    Its funny DPs kids have never corrected anyone who has called me their mum,  I usually get 'Oh you didn't get a look in did you?' and once when we lost DS he went to reception at the hotel and said he had lost his parents which just made me fill up, I was so touched by that.  Saying that I have had them since they were 1 and 5 so I guess that helps.  DD tried to call me mum when she was little, but I corrected her because I didn't think it was right when she already had a mum and I didn't want any trouble from EW.  It does hurt though when there are things I can't share because I am not their mum,  and sometimes when EW picks them up and DP and the kids and EW are all stood on the drive together I feel so left out and then feel silly for feeling left out.  Its like torture at times.  I too feel the stepkids have held us back somewhat and I hate having EW in our relationship    DP doesn't seem to be able to grasp what he has stolen from me by not telling me he had had the snip, I felt so foolish to be kept in the dark for so long, and so heartbroken that I missed my fertile years and he was all the time aware that I couldn't fall pregnant, it was such a shi**y thing to do to someone.  I know its too late anyway to try and meet someone else, by the time we had gotten to the kids stage I would be way too old.  I know he feels very guilty and I know he can't cope when I am in tears because he knows he is responsible, so he just gets angry instead.  I will carry on my quest because I still want my own child so I can at least feel like a whole monther and not just a parody of one.   

Great news about your snow babies how exciting, how many do you have?  Yes by the time we are through we should all get a certificate of endurance from the University and get to attend a graduation ceremony    I read Agates file and was most impressed there is obviously a lot of experience and learning in there.

Hi everyone else xx


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## Moominmum

Hi Ladies,

I am reading all your posts every day and I reply in my head and then once I am about to write nothing comes...

I am in awe of all of you and everything you have been/are going through, especially when you write about step children and(crazy) EWs. And in combination with reading *MJ1's* post about the father's friend it has got me thinking about life in another way.

Are there any immune tests that are a "must" for us oldies. I think I have lost any insight I might have had. I think I am still in some kind of denial and think that all will be fine somehow (because time is really on my side) but I do need to crack on with things.

*Sazz* I am going to Create's Open Day on Saturday. Did you go to one? Do you actually get to speak to anyone or how does it work?

Btw for those of you who remember - I had this preggers friend who has a do on Sat that I didn't want to go to but where I had said I would and didn't know how to get out of it. Anyway my brother, whom I have not seen since Feb (he lives in Asia) has decided to come by London for a couple of days only and he arrives on Sat so now I have a good reason to not go 

I am sending some baby dust to all of you here! 

  
from
Moominmum


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## artist_mum

wow *Lesley*, that is quite a big lie. No wonder you feel angry about that. I guess he had his reasons, but gosh, I"m not surprised you consider the situation at times. But Yes, you have to think about all that you do have and you know, being their stepmum since 1 and 5 years does make a big difference. These kids of my DP and I do bond really welll but they were 6 and 9 years so it is quite different really. I completely understand all your comments about the torture of step parenting - even though I know you probably also do get a lot of positive stuff from it. I do think that yours will always think of you much, much closer than normal step mums. I think you are a star for all that you do. And they will too, when they are older and work it all out for themselves.

I think a lot of guys get angry when they feel powerless - and even more so if they are actually to blame (and that's why they are powerless to argue) so i'm not surprised that can cause difficulty when you bring it up. And i don't blame you for bringing it up either! Gosh, that is so difficult. Life is tough and we do get ourselves into some pickles with our behaviour. I just so hope you can get pg and move on together with all this.

Snow babies - we have 2. Only 2. So it is risky - we don't know what stage they are at or how to courier them over here etc but we will just keep going forward and see what it brings.

*Moominum* - great news on the perfect 'preggers friend party' avoidance excuse! Ha ha...... that played out nicely and it will be lovely to see your brother I guess. Thanks for the baby dust.. back to you: 

Roxy xx


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## LellyLupin

Hi Roxy, yes it was huge lie, I didn't find out until we (I) had been trying for a baby for 5 years and even then he didn't tell me, it just came to me in a moment of clarity and when I confronted him he admitted it.  His excuse was he thought I wouldn't want him if I knew, well Gee it would have been nice to have had the facts before I took on him and his 2 kids    He did have to go through 3 hours of microsurgery to reverse it, but unfortunately for me he ended up with antibodies so technically he is now infertile.  If I had been warned about the chance of developing antibodies I would have gone straight for ivf, and saved myself 3.5 k and even more wasted years.  But we are where we are I guess and he has spent the last few years trying to make up for his lie, and he does feel massively responsible for my tears and hurt so I know if he could turn back the clock he would.  So yes sometimes I resent him and wish I had walked away, and if I had had the facts at the very beginning I may very well have done just that. I feel owes me a baby and thats why I get so mad when he doesn't seen as keen as I am.

I wish you so much luck with your snowbabies, its so exciting knowing you have 2 potential children isn't it.  I have never been in the position to freeze any, so no wonder you are nervous about transporting them, they are so very precious.    

Moomin I am so glad you got a very good excuse not to go - thank the lord for brothers huh?  I love mine to bits.  I think I am in that same denial stage that you are in, your comment made me smile because I know exactly what you mean by it  

Much love to all xxx


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## Sazzmataz

Hi everyone 

*Moomminmum* I know what you mean about reading posts & then replying! I do try to keep up but my DP does love to hog the computer, although I am now back on my laptop so much better without a keen face next to me wanting to jump on & play poker! The computer that is! 
As for Create open day, are you going morning or afternoon one? Get there a bit early if you can as you're given a number, which means that after Geeta Nargund does the presentation talk & questions, you get the chance to have a personal chat in her office so you can speak in private. You can also book a fertility MOT too for a later date if you like, which is a very detailed scan & pre treatment consultation. They do tend to get very busy appointment availability wise after their open days. Good luck & I hope you like Create, It may be quite small & not as new & flash as some other clinics but they are very good. Maybe we'll be cycle buddies?! 
I'm not sure whether to cycle in January now or wait for Feb?  I'm not very well at the mo with upper respiratory viral infection & inflammation so feeling pretty rotten & have been prescribed steroids. The same prednisolone that i had when I had my IVF cycle... I'd like to try soon as but thinking sensibly will another month hurt? I'm now 43, AMH good but there's always that age clock clanging in the background! 
*Lesley* What a very sad predicament you've found yourself in! I do really feel for you & understand your frustration 
I met my ex husband at 32, married 33 he was younger than me but he knew how I'd lost my daughter & how having a family was so important to me. He said he wasn't ready yet which i respected, i had fertility investigations when i was 34 & discovered i had PCO, had a monitored cycle at UCL & my ex kept messing me about & i realised he was just using me for a visa to stay in the country, so I left him. l felt very cheated at what point does another person think its acceptable to sacrifice someone else life & dreams for their own selfishness, it was very unfair especially when he knew how much it meant to me. Anyway i moved on & have the most wonderful & lovely partner now i could wish for, I do feel upset at the wasted time, but I wouldnt have what i have now & fingers crossed its not too late & we will get our little miracle   & fingers crossed for you too sending you lots of   & 
*Fifi & Hopeful* I do totally agree with you about the stresses on our relationships this crazy journey creates! If only I'd met DP sooner we could have done more of the fun things together & it does put an enormous emotional stress on things. Dp stopped smoking, drinking taking all the right supplements & was really good. But now he wants to have his few beers etc & I hate feeling so preoccupied all the time. I'd also like to let my hair down & have a few wild fun times & forget everything like the old days but.... I'm on this journey now & not ready to get off yet! Hugs to you both 
*MJ1 & Roxy* It's interesting about ovulation I tested my LH surge on day 15 & now on day 31 & no period  This is a little later than usual for me, although not complaining as I have adenomyosis & the pain is horrific so AF can stay away as far as I'm concerned!  Did either of you ovulate the month following IVF? & is it normal to have a longer leutal phase?
*De-vi * So sorry to hear of your loss  look after yourself at this difficult time 
Also HI to *Chandlerino, Nettaya, Susiemarmite* *Kirsty* How are all you ladies?

AFM ... Well I did go to my friend's baby's funeral  It was indeed a very sad day as expected, I'd wrote my friend a little card to say a few personal words & to let her know how i'll be there for her in times to come. 
I also took a white rose to put in the grave as did our other friends. I'm glad i was able to be there for her although I couldn't look at the coffin as I was too scared I'd lose it & the day was about my friend & her beautiful baby boy.

Its been a bit of a week,  last Wednesday on the way to work, & suffering usual delays a s we'd had a bit of snow, whilst waiting on platform a lady threw herself in front of the train! It was really really shocking!  
Yesterday I spent the day in hospital as collapsed at work with breathing problems, have asthma & now this virus is flooring me!  Am home off sick on the sofa in the warm 
I finish work officially next week for Christmas till January the 2nd or 3rd.... Yayyyy... A mush needed break! 

 To everone & anyone else i have missed.

S.x.


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## Canonlygetbetter1

Hi, I have been reading your posts for some time now and can relate to so much of it! Do you mind if I join you? I have been avoiding posting as sometimes feel that it doesn't help me to be on FF all the time as this infertility takes over our lives as it is but it is such a good support mechanism and I am feeling quite lonely with the whole infertility thing right now. Run up to Xmas and lots of pregnancy announcements don't help either!

I have no idea where we are going next. We were due to have our third ivf last year (May/June) but after my AMH result came back at 1.9 my consultant said my chances with ivf were less than 5%. I took this as gospel and we cancelled the cycle and I took 3 months off work with the money as was feeling really stressed and a bit of a state. We decided to just try naturally. My niece was born in February and I became obsessed with it all again. Since then I have had a few consultants feedback - which vary but most say ivf is still the best chance (apart from Serum) who said try naturally. Had hysto there in June but no joy. We had the money put by for another ivf if we decided to go for it but our cars both died in the last two weeks and have taken all our funds - I think this has hit me really hard as feel helpless again.
I just don't know what to do - get into more debt for another shot at ivf, try naturally for a few more months or try and move on and try and enjoy life.  I know DE is best chance but DH against it and I don't think I am that keen for us personally - really wish I wanted to as know it's the best chance. I have two stepchildren so understand all the issues tha some of you have expressed regarding this!

Does anyone know much about natural/mild ivf at Create and have any opinions they could share?

Good luck to you all. You are all so strong - you so deserve to be mums.

Lots of love xxxx


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## ajw

Hello ladies,
Sorry I've not been around for a while. Trying to think about other things between cycles.

I've skimmed through, as lots seems to have happened and new people have joined. Hello to those of you who don't know me. I suppose due to the nature of this thread the stories are often upsetting. particularly I'd like to say to De-vi how sorry I was to hear your news. I can only imagine the heartbreak    

I'm going to my yoga for fertility class tonight, and our Christmas dinner afterwards where I hope we will be cheering each other up and giving each other hope for the new year.   

Well, since I was last on I've turned 42, which I'm finding quite depressing. I know some of you are older, but regardless of that, I think we all feel a slight panic as each year ticks on...
I also my baseline blood results today, which are not good   and to top it all, the gyn called and told me I have precancerous cells on my cervix and need to go to hospital asap and get them removed.
I have no idea what this will mean for IVF, but I assume at the least that it's going to delay my next cycle.   Why do these things just seem to happen one after the other? I'm currently waiting for the doc to call me back and tell me when I can get an appointment...

Hope you're all having a more cheery day. Maybe the yoga will sort me out!
ajw xxx


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## fififi

Evening! Not got time for personals I'm afraid but have question to ask:

Wondered if anyone had experience of following and/or whether I need to speak with clinic?
- Following IVF BFN I got AF within a few days of stopping progesterone. Then next AF just 18 days later (so very short cycle). Now I'm on Day 30 and still no sign of AF - usually I spot for 3/4 days before & my normal cycle is 26 days. (I'm definitely not pg sadly as had endometrial biospy this month so not babydanced at all.)

Sorry for me post but bit worried as to what's happening as want to try and get back to attempting the impossible mission of natural miracle!


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## artist_mum

hi
just a quickie - it's a weekend with the step kids here and with pre-xmas stuff.. argh!  It's too busy & I don't like it!!  I will post more tomorrow, especially to Lesleylupin - have been thinking bout you.

But wanted to reply to fififi.  I had similar thing happen and second AF came at 31 days then following month it went back to 26 (also my usual cycle) and last time 23.

Roxy xx


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## fififi

Thanks Roxy - feel little less concerned knowing someone else had similar x


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## Moominmum

Hi All Lovely Ladies - will write more next time as busy having my lovely bro here at the mo! 

Just a quick note to *Lesley* to say that I think you are incredibly strong considering the history with your DP. I could never have handled it as well as you have/are. You are one h**k of a woman! 

*Sazz* Went to the Open Day yesterday and oh how I LOVED the clinic. Yes not as fancy but so personal even it its atmosphere. And Dr G Nargund was very impressive. It was great to have that free chat with her and oh my was I prepared - I told her my full story in 2 minutes  Now I just have to convince DH to go along with it but erhm I have booked a "MOT" and consultation for before the new year so I'd better hurry up. Was impressed with hearing how they had a woman 48 years old having a baby with her own eggs and two 46 year olds with their own eggs in 2012! Hear hear ladies. Made me feel like a youngster 

Lots of  for some Xmas and NYE miracles and a great 2013 for us all!


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## RachelMaria

Hi Moominmum - thats made me feel a whole lot better - was actgually starting to feel passed it - whoever said life begins at 40? Not on the websites I've been reading!!!!


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## LellyLupin

Hello Girls sorry I haven't posted for a while, mum has been back into hospital so have been visiting and trying to look after Dad as well has having a couple of migraines inbetween.

Thanks for all the lovely things you have said about how I cope in my strange situation.   It really helps to talk to you girls, as obviously its not something I can talk to DP about and no-one else knows but my FF buddies.  I did get a little bit annoyed with my sister while we were at the hospital and Mum had gone for an xray, she asked if I was going to try again and then said why would you want to bring an innocent baby into this horrible world.  Especially when my stepkids will soon be off my hands and me and DP could go on holidays etc.  To which I said she would never understand as she already has a family.  No-one who has kids can ever understand the hurt infertility brings it tkes someone in the same situation.  She said but you have us (my siblings) not quite the same thing but I appreciated the thought.  I wish people wouldn't comment so negatively though, why do people want to make us feel guilty about wanting a child at our age, it really annoys me and its always people who already have their own kids.  If they can't be supportive why do they feel the need to comment  

Moomin glad to hear you have a lovely brother too, are you very close?  Mine is coming to me for Christmas this year which should be fun, I love it when we are all together.  The clinic you went to sounds fabulous, I wish the clinics near me where more like that, I just get tired of hearing the old eggs blurb.  There seems to be a lot of older ladies falling pregnant in the forum, it does give a boost when I see it and 48 with OE is just what I want to hear now I am nearing 46  

Roxy I am right there with you on the pre xmas step kids front.  We had ours yesterday,  they look so grown up and now DSS is training to join the navy and had been weight training and running he is huge, he towers above me and has size 10 feet!  DSD is almost as tall as me and is coming up 11, DPs family are all over six feet tall so I feel like a midget when we are all together, its like the land of the giants.  DSD had bought the dog a christmas stocking which I  thought was really nice of her, she can be ever so sweet at times and she still loves a cuddle which I love about her.    

AJW I hope you are Ok and are feeling a little more positive, at 42 you are still only just in your 40s so don't panic too much, I wish I was 42 and not 46 coming up.  The clinics around here won't treat you if you are over 45 so I have 6 month to get pregnant -arghhh!.  Have you booked your appointment yet?  Sending you some    xxx

Hello Canonlygetbetter how are you doing, are you feeling any better?

Sazz I read your post with interest, you did the right thing leaving your husband what a git to waste your time like that.  I am glad you are now happy with someone else.  You were very brave to go to your friends little boys funeral, what a lovely person you are to be there to support her in spite of your own pain,  that was a lovely thing for you to do.    I hope you are feeling better and your virus has gone it sounds like you have had an awful time lately, what with the lady throwing herself in front of the train, that must have been so traumatic for everone who witnessed it, I hope you have managed to get past it xx

Hi to RachelMaria and Fifi  I hope you get your natural miracle xx

Hello to everyone else.  xx


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## Sazzmataz

Hi Ladies

*Moominmum* I'm glad you liked Create. They are very good especially with us 40+ ladies  Have you booked your MOT with Dr Nargund? When do you think you'll be cycling? After you've worked on DH  
I think i'll be cycling in Feb instead of Jan now as need to get myself fit & ready after being ill. We'll be going with ICSI next time, wish we'd asked last time seeing as I had only the 4 eggs from the 1 ovary, I feel it would have given us a better chance. Next time 
*Lesleylupin* Thankyou for your kind words & I hope you feel better & no more migraines, you have had a lot to deal with.  I agree with you about people & their need to comment. My SIL said to me' you are lucky, you can do what you want, when you want, why do you want to risk going through it again! Even my mum who was by my side all the way when I lost my Poppy said, ' well I wouldnt want to give birth in my 40's!  I know she's worrying about me as she nearly lost me when I had my daughter. But it's something I dream for, they don't understand the emptiness & the loneliness i feel. It's hard not to feel resentful & bitter at times. I wouldn't have chosen to wait until my 40's but fate took that out of my hands in my 20's. I'd rather be on this journey now than never at all & maybe     we'll all get our hopes & dreams 
*Fifi, Roxy, AJW,Hopeful,MJ1, Nettaya & everyone else* Hope you all well ladies 

AFM Re-scheduled my pre-treatment apt today until 3rd week of Jan so i'll be ready fingers crossed for Feb cycle.
Christmas is a difficult time of year. I cant help the lonely inside feeling, families preparing for Christmas, I feel such an outsider looking into a world I don't belong. Instead I'll have a holly wreath made with Poppy's name on with red flowers & visit the cemetry  This year I'm lucky to have DP by my side & fingers crossed this time next year we'll* ALL *have our arms filled with our little miracles!  I keep saying to DP, when we have the twins!! 

Here's lotsa       that next year will be a positive one with lots of* BFP'S*

S.x


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## hopeful68

i havent posted in ages. hadnt really had much to say really. still deliberating options. have had a few good heart to hearts with DH and are all back on the right tracks there. manicly busy at work - that has completely distracted me from my 'feeling sorry for myself' syndrome but i will be heading back to a sorry state as my 15yr old dog has been diagnosed with an advanced spleenic tumour - prognosis terminal anytime soon as he could have a massive bleed or it could drip away but weeks to months max. so happy christmas me & DH - cant wait to see the back of this year!

you ladies have had some really tough trials and tribulations judging from my skim through the last few posts. i cant really offer any support for most of the suituations as i am not stuck with ex's kids and ex's of any stress inducing type!!  

i am going to wish you all a really happy Christmas - put this years rubbish to one side  for at least a day! Here is hoping next year brings us all some dreams that can come true.


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## RachelMaria

Hi Ladies

Hopeful68 - so sorry honey - people keep telling me to never give up and although i feel down about everything I am not going to give up - with good tubes and fish's you never know honey - keep bonking babes because things do happen - usually when you are least expecting and hoping for them (life it a *****!).

My mum keeps telling me to keep praying and keep asking the angels for help - she is an old hippy but I do as I am told! 

(love'd the bit about botty bombs by the way - made me giggle on a down day so love to you xxxx)


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## Sushi Lover

Hello lovely ladies,

Sorry I've been a stranger for a few weeks. Had a lot on my mind and what with work/travelling/Christmas the panic was setting in. I just didn't have time to post. Ridiculous getting in such a state when you have too much on your plate. I have a problem with saying 'no' to people! Plus all the trauma of asking for a soft drink and getting the third degree. One bloke I work with said on Tuesday eve "Why aren't you drinking... are you pregnant".. I said "no I'm bloody not and don't ask personal questions"... quite aggressively really. I was cross. He comes back to talk to me 10 mins later and says "I feel I hit a nerve Kirsty, sorry, have you had a miscarriage or something?" I nearly punched him !! so insensitive.

Anyway, feel better now as things have calmed down and I'm all sorted for Christmas at last.

Trying to catch up on what I've missed....

Firstly... *De_vi*... words fail me. My eyes filled with tears when I read your post. I'm so so sorry. I hope you have wonderful people around you that are taking care of you ... big hugs.

*Lesley*...so sorry to hear your mum is back in hospital and life is stressful. You are right about people making you feel guilty for wanting a child in our 40's. It's usually people with kids already who just don't understand. Drives me mad. I'd rather they didn't say anything at all. How awful for you with your partner having the snip and not telling you. 5 years is a long while. No wonder you felt you had wasted time.

*Sazz*.....Oooh exciting about your Feb cycle coming up! Christmas is tough honey. I think us childless ladies always feel a bit left out at this time of year, because Christmas is for kids really. I'll be thinking of you on Christmas Day at the cemetery laying your wreath for Poppy. You are one brave lady. Thank goodness for your lovely partner who is now supporting and looking after you. Miracles do happen. Keep praying!

*Hopeful*.... Sorry to hear your lovely dog is terminally ill. These awful things always seem to happen at Christmas. You must feel so low. I'm with you on wishing this year was over!

*Roxy*.... that's super news about your frozen embryos! Any further details about flying them over?

*Moomin*...Pleased you loved Create. That is so comforting to hear about the ladies having babies with their own eggs at 46 amd 48!! I'm loving that!

*Fififi*... have you had your NK cells results yet? I had mine about 10 days ago and am still waiting. They have to be sent to the U.S. I've heard so maybe that's what the hold-up is. The womb biopsy sounds mega 'ouch'!! Glad it wasn't as bad as you were expecting.

Hello to *Canonlygetbetter1*... have you tried DHEA supplement to improve your egg quality? There are some mixed messages about it, but I was recommended to try it by my new consultant. I was worried about side effects (some nasty ones are on the web), but 'touch wood', haven't experienced any. Won't know if it's helped at all until next IVF cycle in Jan. It's such a tough journey isn't it?

*AJW*... Goodness, poor you with the cells on your cervix. That's all you need. Have you had your appointment yet? I hope the yoga is helping to de-stress you. Thinking of you.

Hello to *RachelMaria*...I keep telling myself that loads of women get pregnant naturally and with IVF in the their 40's. So we definitely aren't past it!! Keep trying and praying.

Hi to all the other ladies on the thread... hope everyone is prepared for Christmas.

K xx


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## LellyLupin

Oh FFS I just lost a huge post so this will be the shortened version.

Sazz I truly hope you manage to get through Christmas ok.  I will think about you on Christmas day  , I know we are all in the same boat of not having children at Christmas time,  but I know that mourning for a child that has been lost is in another league entirely.  I hope you and DP find some peace and that you do one day have another little miracle (or two) to love xx 

Hopeful I don't know what to say to comfort you, I too have a 15 year old dog and shes my world, I can imagine how you must be feeling. I know that 15 is a fantastic age for any dog to get to, and I am sure your pup has had the best life full of love, but it doesn't make the pain any less.  I am sending you some   as thats all I can do, I really feel so so sorry xxx 

Kirsty me too, I find it very hard to say no and I end up stressed because I have taken so much on.  My friend who owns the horses has just announced that shes flying off to South Africa on Boxing day for 3 weeks, so as well as having all my current stresses I now have two horses to look after!  I wouldn't mind if she asked me before she booked it but she just expects me to be ok with it.    I wish I was a bit more assertive but I can't maintain it for more than a day.  Its a good job I have DP cos he sometimes finishes work early and mucks out for me.

Wow the guy at work - what a prat, I guess no one when they ask that question expects that the person asked might be struggling with infertility.  I am sure it doesn't even cross most peoples minds, so I guess we should pity them really, I bet he was mortified by your reaction and was trying to make amends (clumsily).  On the plus side he must still see you as a youngster capable of getting pregnant, I get miffed when people write me off as too old  

AJW how are you doing?

AFM I rang the hospital today to try and arrange my follow up appointment from my ivf in October, I was told to ring after the New Year.  I am thinking about trying DHEA but am a bit worried as I am slightly polycystic.  Another niggle is DPs parents are hassling us to go on holiday with them in March,  and I am not sure when I will be starting treatment again.  His mother gets all snippy when she wants us to do something with her,  and I really can't be doing with her getting funny when I try to hold off committing to anything.  When DP was in getting his reversal done, she had been ringing his mobile all day and got herself so het up about him not answering that she left him the most awful message, which was all he needed after 3 plus hours in theatre!!  

Hello Roxy, Moomin et al hope you are all ok xx


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## artist_mum

Hi

*Hopeful* - So sorry to hear about your dog, i also have a dog and know who hard that must be. They are so special. I hope you manage to have some good times with him/her before the time comes. Good to hear you and DH have sorted things out a bit, stress is such a killer for us all. I hope 2013 brings you your dreams, and yeah, happy christmas to you too  x

*lesley* - ha, i know how irritating it is when you write a load and then lose it! Your FFS made me laugh, haven't seen that one before! Anyway good to hear your news and yes, I know what you mean about avoiding dates but not being able to tell people why. Sounds like your DP's mum likes to keep in touch  - which is very difficult if you are arranging dates. My Step father has his 80th in February and has been planning it for a year (!) so we didn't feel we could organise our cycle around that time, imagine the stress of having FET booked and having to go off to Spain and not be able to say why we had to cancel for his big day! So we are leaving it til March which is ages off and I worry so much about time/my age. Really sorry to hear your mum got ill again, hope she has got a bit better by now. And how irritating when people take for granted that you will care for their animals, that is so wrong. They are very lucky to have you do it at all.

*kirsty* i know just what you mean about not being able to say no to people, which can be particularly fatal around christmas time! Good to hear you have got organised by now - christmas shouldn't be about all this stress and getting stuff together but of course inevitably it does become that. But good to do it all a bit early and be able to relax and enjoy. (haha, i try every year to be that person ). I hope you'll have a nice break. We have been round and round with the frozen embryos and now confirmed that it is very difficult to fly them here due to embryo anonymity being the law in Spain but of course it is illegal to have anonymous embryos here. So HFEA would need to authorise which is apparently very unlikely. ALso apparently stressful to experience the courier bit too. So the upshot is that we will go to Spain for the tx.

*Rachelmaria* Your mum is probably right - keep praying  We do! Hope your dreams come true

*moominum & Sazzmataz* Your chat about Create have really made me think - we didn't know that you could get treated over 45 in this country hence going directly to Spain/Donor Eggs. But after reading your posts, i called them and even if this seems really stupid at my age, i had an AMH blood test done - i suppose just to confirm that I really couldn't do OE ivf. I've never had that done before which is crazy but i started all this after 45 so not much help available. So waiting for result and see. We do have frozen embryos (2) so I don't know, I'm so confused! Good luck to you both with Create - and yours in Feb Sazz, so not long to wait... Hope it works out for you. By the way I don't know the answer about ovulating/longer leuteal phase after IVF as i didn't monitor that (plus i had DE so not the same cycle really)

*fifif* did you get your AF yet? Hope that has sorted itself out and that you are doing OK. Ready for a natural miracle . It can happen .

*Ajw* Really sorry to hear about the cells on the cervix, i hope that gets sorted out quickly and easily for you. It does seem relentless sometimes doesn't it.. And yeah, even tho I am on a few more birthdays than 42, I do know that each one can hit you hard with this baby dream going on. I hope next year will be a good one for you and you can get on with reaching your dreams.

*canonlygetbetter* Hi and welcome. I understand your dilemma with the DE - we are doing that but now I rang Create and found that they would treat me even though I am 47 with OE ivf. So now it has made me think about the donor thing all over again. It is a difficult one. And the money side of things, yeah, that is tough. Its hard to know how much to push this - and then of course you just want to give it your everything. Tricky. I hope you find some answers. Create are nice to talk with on the phone and I notice they have an open day on Jan 15th (i think) so could be worth a visit. All the best anyway i hope you get your baby

De-vi, Chandlerino, Nettaya, Susiemarmite - hi and how are you all? OK I hope. Happy Christmas to you 

AFM We have decided to have FET over in Spain as we cannot bring the embryos to UK due to them being from anonymous donor. So we will go there probably in March. Just organising dates with Eugin, the clinic over there. And have immunes tested here with ARGC who will monitor things pre and post transfer. We hope it will work for us. We really do.

Roxy xx


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## Footsteps

Evening Ladies 

I hope you don't mind me joining you x  Thanks Roxy for the link x

I have read briefly through previous posts and boy what a chatty lot you all are! but I am sure I will catch up lol! x  

Well me & DH are waiting to embark on the rollercoaster for the 5th time in the New Year and hoping it wont be too long before we go back to Spain for FET.. we have just had the full immunes tests done to see if there are any issue or if its down to just sheer bad luck! so now waiting for the results back from them...  we have an appt booked 24/1/13 with our UK clinic to review the results and then take things from there & hopefully they will co-ordinate things with Spain if we have any issues extra meds/monitoring etc (cycled with Spain & UK)  

Roxy - I hope you are well x Interesting thing about not being able to bring your frosties back from Spain.. is it the UK that will not allow them to be brought back? DH & I thought about it but never actually looked into it.  We are looking at probably going back Feb/Mar for FET so we could be cycle buddies  x

Footsteps x


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## artist_mum

hey Footsteps  

I'm well thanks.  It would be great to cycle buddy with you!  Perhaps that will work out for timing, we'll see.

yes it is the UK that will not accept embryos that have an anonymous donor status (being as the law here is that the donor must be known/contactable).  The ARGC embryology unit told me that you can apply to the HFEA for a special dispensation to have them brought over but that it can take months for their decision and then they often say no anyway.  So that is too risky.  

I already feel we have left it a long time since last tx but it will prob have to be late Feb/March as Eugin want me to take contraceptive pill first (which i didn't do before).  Have you done it that way?

Good luck with the immunes - not sure if it is good or bad to get something show up... but I guess it is more information either way, and will put your mind at ease.

Roxy x


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## MJ1

Hi Ladies,

Hello, and how are you all? I have not been on for a while partly due to having a very heavy cold, plus AF arriving on Tuesday, dashing any hopes of a Christmas miracle and also the memories of last Christmas and our most promising cycle yet. So I will probably be a bit quiet for a while. Looking forward to spending Sunday with my Dad as it is a year today since his quadruple heart bypass and glad to see that year through. 
DP and I have decided we are going to spend Christmas Day at home this year, too many new borns in the family and just want to be away from it all for this Christmas. 
Back to Lister in the New Year.  
Love to you all and wishing you a lovely Christmas and let's   that our miracles do come to us all next year.
Welcome to all the new ladies that have joined us.


Love MJ1 xxxxx


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## Coolish

Artist_Roxy - my last clinc liked me to take the contraceptive pill for each cycle. I think it helps to sync everything.


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## Canonlygetbetter1

Hi everyone

I hope you are all doing OK and are not feeling too down about the Xmas period. 

Thanks for those that have posted to me and sorry I haven't responded - just been feeling in that way - not knowing what to say and avoiding coming on here. I will post properly in the New year when hopefully I am feeling optimistic about this journey again and things are less hectic!

Just wanted to wish you all a happy xmas and a wonderful 2013 - may all your dreams come true    

Lots of love
Lou xxx


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## dillydolly

To any of you that have been to Serum...

What does Penny recommend for trying to conceive naturally? Ie. timing of BD in particularly!

Just been looking at the 'sperm meet egg plan' where it suggested daily BD for 3 days on ovulation then skip a day 

Most stuff I have read have said alternating days for quality!

Any thoughts?


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## fififi

Hi all ... despite all my intentions life has been rather mad recently so just not managed to write personals. Not sure I'll get time tomorrow either as Xmas is a somewhat chaotic time for us as we travel to visit both DH & my families who are both 3 hours away from us in opposite directions in UK!!!!

So have popped by to say I've been reading posts lots (on phone) and am thinking of everyone at this time of year when no matter how good celebrations are there's always a point in which that emptiness & sadness of no baby is felt. Love & hugs to you all and hoping 2013 brings joy to us all.

AFM - Following NK cell biopsy my AF finally arrived 9 days late which I was really relieved about. Not sure if it was the biopsy or my out of sorts hormones following IVF to blame but hoping for normality from now on ... well actually hoping I never get AF again and manage miracle pg but hey!!!
- Am having laproscopy sometime in January as endo symptoms getting worse which means just this month to try & get my miracle before we're off limits again!!! (no pressure there then) Depending on how laproscopy goes we may/may not have one final, final IVF cycle in March/April if can get money together.
- Quite low at moment as keep thinking about how had things gone differently I should be enjoying life with 6 week old twins. Also scared that when I get to see my family at Xmas I'm going to crumble totally as one of my sisters will be there with her newborn & another a 7 month bump. It's things like this that make all our journeys so hard - there's no escaping the "what we can't have".

PS. Thanks to all those who've asked after me these last few weeks. Without this thread I really would struggle as feel so alone in such a highly baby centered life I seem to lead.

PPS. Sazz - special hugs to you as know the pain early MC brings so can't begin to imagine how hard it is for you at this time    

PPPS. Lesley & all you other step mummies - I think you are all amazing being able to care and love someone else's children when inside it must hurt so much that they are not truly yours. As a teacher at a Primary school I can assure you that the kids themselves really value step mummies who give them that special care and attention.


----------



## LellyLupin

Aw Fifi what a lovely thing to say    I am feeling a little bit sad today as my Mum told me she was worried I'd be on my own when I am old.  She has been ill lately and said that although kids can bring a good share of heartache, they really are the most important thing in life as when you get older you realise how much they love you.  It brought a tear to my eye as she has no idea I have been having ivf.  It did bring home to me how much I really do want a family, but I don't think I am going to get my dream as time is running out for me.  On a brighter note my lovely brother and his fiancee and kids are coming for Christmas dinner so we should have lots of fun.  I am just going to grateful for the people I do have who I love and who love me.

I really feel for you Fifi having so many babies around you it must be like torture having lost your twins   .  I hope you do manage to have a good time and no one says anything that hurts. Try and enjoy yourself I know its hard chick xx

My DSD  made me laugh yesterday, she gave me a Christmas present and then told her Dad that she'd spent so much on mine she couldn't afford one for him - bless her she was so excited about it.  I love her so much but as you say it is very difficult when she goes home to her 'real' mum.  I do get a lot of best bits though as shes sees me as someone to have fun with  as I don't do the discipline and the making her do her homework bits, so there are advantages.  Yesterday we sat and looked at wedding dresses and what we would wear at our weddings    shes only 10, but she loves doing things like that and it makes us really close.

Anyway ladies I just came on here to say I hope you all have a fabulous Christmas and New Year and to thank you for all the support and laughs you have given me.  I will 'see' you all in 2013  and heres hoping at least some of us will get our dream  Much love to you all  XXXXX


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## Sushi Lover

Morning girlies,

I'm back at work so thought I'd catch up with a post.

*Lesley*... isn't it ridiculous that we can't say no to people?! My DP gets cross with me when I've organised yet another thing to do. I then end up getting all stressy when I have too much to cram in and it gets on top of me. Slowly getting better with age, but just hate letting people down. Goodness, two horses to look after for 3 weeks sounds a bit of nightmare. Not like feeding someone's fish is it?! haha. No, I know most people wouldn't think about the possibility of ladies struggling with infertility. But I remember before I was trying to conceive and certain people didn't have kids... I wouldn't have dreamed of quizzing them about it. It's personal. He did try very clumsily to make amends, you are right. But fancy saying about having a miscarriage!! I'm taking some comfort from the fact he thinks I'm young enough to get pregnant though  .. thank you for that. How was Christmas with the step children? My DP saw his kids on Boxing Day, but I'm still not allowed to meet the daughter. Ludicrous. As my family are all in Dorset and I'm in London I didn't get to spend the day with them (we drove back yesterday morning). But I'll tell you what, I had such a lovely day laying on the sofa in my new Cath Kidston pjs, watching all my Sky Plus stuff.... Downton, Strictly, Miranda, Eastenders and drinking non-alcoholic mulled wine from M&S! Had a lovely day to be honest 

I'm still taking my DHEA and have had no horrible side effects. I won't know about the cyst issue until my AFC in mid Jan to give you advice about that. I'm prone to cysts as well. On the plus side I had the result of my AMH and it was 18! High for my age. I'm sure it's down to the DHEA. I didn't have it taken at my last clinic... only the FSH. This was about 11 from memory which on the high side and meant my fertility range was in the low category. I'm sure there has been some improvement. Of course, I still don't know about the quality of the eggs until my next IVF in Jan. But the quantity seems to have improved.

*Roxy*...... what a pain for you that you can't fly the frozen embies over. I hope March comes round quickly for you. How exciting to look forward to such an exciting trip to Spain to be reunited with your frosties. I bet you can't wait! Will you go for your immune testing in Jan?

*Footsteps*... welcome, yes we are quite chatty! How lovely that you may be in Spain a similar time to Rox and can be cycle buddies. I always find that helps. How have you found the treatment in Spain and the DE procedure? Is it straightforward? The only thing that would worry me is that I'm blonde with fair skin and green eyes so what are the chances of finding an egg donor in Spain who looks like me?! I'm starting my next IVF cycle in Mid/late Jan (with OE again) and need a cycle buddy. Who wants to join me?!

*MJ*........I was hoping for a Christmas miracle too and got my AF on Saturday. So disheartenting isn't it? I can imagine your Crhistmas brings back the memories of last year which must be hard for you and DP. I hope your quiet Christmas Day was lovely. It sounds fabulous to me! I don't blame you wanting to be away from the newborns. I'd be the same. I'm praying that 2013 is a better year for us all.

*Lou*..... It goes in the peaks and troughs with the feelings of optimism and pessimism I find. Sometimes I just want to be away from the site and in my own little world (feeling sorry for myself!) and other times I need the reassurance and support the girls on here provide. Best of luck with trying naturally. What meds are you on?

*DillyDolly*..... Afraid I haven't been to Serum so I can't help with your question. Is there a separate post for clinics abroad maybe? I tend to BD on the high and peak days my Clear Blue Fertility Monitor tells me to! I always think the window is so narrow I wouldn't want to chance missing it by doing alternate days.

*Fififi*...... I hope Christmas was bearable honey... with your sister's new born and another one with a bump  so hard isn't it? I'm with you on praying for no AFs!! I got that 'low point' feeling a few times over the past few weeks. Just a feeling of sadness that I'm buying and wrapping presents for other people's children, but not for my own. Even DP can write 'love Dad' on his gift tags. My family are all lovely and we have a fun time, but the emptiness is still lurking somewhere inside me. The questions about having children are directed at my younger sister and cousins now... so I think they've given up on me reproducing  Even though I was surrounded by tons of people I still felt lonely. I imagine lots of us did. I'm pleased to hear you'll have one last go in March/April time.

Kirsty xx


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## deblovescats

hi ladies
i'd like to join you all - get a bit of a boost for TTC in 40s
hi to lesleylupin - remember you from another forum, and hi to coojules - when have you planned a visit to serum? i've got an initial appt with Penny on 19th jan - got flights booked, can't wait now!
Glad to have survived xmas - found it very trying with everyone with kids - even had a toddler brought to our work's xmas dinner!!! Grrrrr!
let's hope 2013 is a lucky year for us all - and not to give up!
Deb


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## artist_mum

hi gals

I've had a bit of a struggle with christmas this year, i sometimes think I am in denial about how hard this fertility quest is.  So I have not written for a bit.  But in this insomniac moment I thought I would post a message to wish you all the best for the New Year.

Kirsty - Yes, I just want to get on with this really. ARGC want to test immunes just a couple of weeks before tx.  they have already identified the immunes that COULD be a problem, but will do it just before and treat as necessary.  I feel better to know they will monitor me.  Your day at home with the remote and the non alc mulled wine sounded lovely!  You too must be excited about January coming round, and I really hope that DHEA has done the trick for you.  Best of luck x

Fififi  I hope you got through christmas OK and I really really hope you get that last tx in April/May time and that it works for you.  It IS hard watching other people with their babies.  Really hard. Thank goodness for FF!  And thank you so much for what you said about step mums, that means SO much, really.  Thank you x

Lesley That's so sweet your SD got your gift over her Dad's one!  You've got a great attitude you know, about making the best of who you have and how they love you.  I imagine there are a lot of people in your life who love you a lot.  I think we all have moments of feeling up or down in this journey, and things trigger us off so easily.  Don't give up, cos you never know, it could be you in 2013. x

Deb - Agree: Don't give up!  And be lucky! x

Lou - i completely understand about coming on here or not at different times.  I don't think anyone minds, we all know it is hard sometimes, and life is so busy.  Anyway best of luck in the new year x

CoolJules - thx re the contraceptives, I'll get on with that as soon as they prescribe them.  Just waiting to hear which type they want me on.

mj1, dillydolly, footsteps, moominum, hopeful, sazz, ajw and any other ladies reading:  HAPPY NEW YEAR to you all. 

AFM  On christmas day in a moment of stress & upset, I poured out everything to my brother and his wife about our fertility journey.  They had no idea, nor does anyone in my family.  I think they just assumed I had put any chance of children behind me.  But you know, telling them was such a relief!  They were both really understanding and supportive, we told them about the donor part as well. So yeah, unexpected revelation to the family, I will have to tell my sister too (she is abroad) or she will feel left out - but not going to tell my parents until we need to.  Just waiting to start contraceptive pill and confirm date for FET now.

Sending you all thank you's for all your support on here and   in 2013.  May you be blessed.

Roxy xx


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## nettya

Hi all,

Well, we're through the other side of Christmas! It's so hard isn't it. We also had the added Christmas bonus of my cousin's girlfriend giving birth on 20th December. Having said that we met the little chap on Saturday and I relished in the chance for a snuggly cuddle with such a tiny baby. Well, not so tiny actually!

I'm heading into 2013 with a positive spirit. It will be a year that sees a new chapter starting in our lives. This might be due to our final round of donor egg treatment and my immune treatment actually working and we manage to hold on to a pregnancy or if that fails at any point we will be putting our fertility treatment days behind us and stepping out on the road to adoption.  

Good luck to you all in 2013. The number is lucky for some, lets hope we all get the luck we've waited so long for xx


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## Sushi Lover

Happy New Year to all my lovely Fertility Friends. Isn't it nice not to feel hungover!!?

I pray 2013 is a lucky year for us all.  Let's put 2012 behind us and focus on a positive future ahead.

Lots of love, best wishes and good vibes sent your way ladies!  xxx


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## LellyLupin

Hello everyone and a Happy Healthy New Year to you all  

Hi Kirsty, Christmas with the Skids was OK except for my SD asking me if she would get my watch when I die!!  Little madam, but I guess it shows she thinks of me as another Mum    Both of them were really pleased with what they got so I was happy about that as I do all the thinking, buying and wrapping for them,  DP wouldn't have a clue.  We only got them Boxing Day as EW is always selfish with them at Christmas time, we haven't seen them since.  Its silly that your DPs ex is not allowing you to meet her daughter, really its up to your DP to make a stand with regards to this, especially if you have been together for a good length of time.  Shes just scared they will love you more than her, I got my SD when she was one so it must have been hard for DPs EW to have to hand her over, and I know she is bothered by how close we are.  Yes I am just off to muck out once I have finished this note, only another 2 weeks to go!  Back at work tomorrow too.  glad you had a nice lazy Christmas day you deserve it xx

Christmas day with my brother and his family was ok, except for the kids being full of cold, I was a bit upset that I didn't get to see Mam as she had gone off to one of my sisters for xmas, apart from that it was fine.  I did feel a bit empty too at times despite my trying to focus on what I do have,  so it does get to me now and then, usually at the most unexpected moments.  I am still dreading March when my Bi Polar friend gives birth, not sure I can fake joy and cover up envy for much longer (although I know I have to) I should get an Oscar at times   

I am going to book my consultation when I get back to work and take a long list of questions with me, and hopefully give it one more try,  I am just a bit worried as I am 46 in June and  I know its my clinics cut off age.  I am so up and down on this as I want to do the treatment again but know if its a BFN thats it, no more pennies to retry again.  I am also dreading my consultation as I am frightened he'll say not to bother even though my test results are so good.  I hate this rollercoaster.

Hi Debs I remember you too, I hope 2013 is your year xx 

Roxy wow I bet your brother and sister in law were dumbfounded,  I sometimes think about telling my Mam and Dad but I have such an umpredictable family I don't know what reaction I would get, and I can do without any negativity.  I am so pleased that yours supported you and you must feel better for telling them.  I hope you get your dream this year as you are a lovely lady, I read that FET has a better chance of working than fresh eggs, so I am sending you some fairydust and lots of love for a BFP  xx

Fifi I hope Xmas wasn't too traumatic for you with your family and you managed to survive it without any trauma xx

Nettya  you were very brave to go see the new baby, well done you.  It sounds like 2013 will be your year, whether you get your own baby or start the adoption process, I wish you all the luck in the word xx

Well I can avoid it no longer I have to brave the cold night to go muck out, I'd much rather stay in the warm and chat to you girls.  Ah well!

Catch you all later xx


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## fififi

Happy 2013 to us all - may it turn out to be "lucky 13" and see us all having to start a new thread about our big bellies or "soon to be ours" adoptees             

Lesley - loving fact DSD got your gift over your DP   ... think that reinforces beyond any doubt just how much you mean to her. She may not be truly yours but she's certainly benefitting from that huge heart of yours. Can't believe she's already eying up your possessions!!! 
Hope your mum is better now - shame you didn't get to see her over Xmas, especially since you've been so up and down with all her health problems lately it would have been nice to spend some happy time together. 
How are things going with your bipolar friend? Have you said anything about you as yet? I really admire your strength in supporting her as know from experiences with just close friends how heartbreaking it is seeing them move through pregnancy and birth. Guess you'll be there for her and just hope you've got someone aside from us who'll be there for you too cos it's going to be so tough for you    
Hope the horses showed some pleasure when they saw you coming to muck them out - don't envy you that task at all!!!

kirsty - thank you for all your lovely chatty posts and positive comments that have made me feel hugged as I read them.
Glad the DHEA not giving you side effects. I've still to actually order mine - went to do it ages ago but for some reason got distracted and only today thought about it again, oops! Now on my "to do list" for this week.
Sorry to read about your idiot colleague's comments. It is so hit and miss with people as to whether they have any understanding as to how we might be feeling but such personal comments are way off.
Glad your relaxing Xmas went ok - having spent over 15 hours driving about visiting family I'm really quite envious of a PJ and TV day!!! Shame you didn't get to see more of your family and totally mad about DP's daughter though.
When do you start next cycle?

deblovescats - hello! Lots of luck with your next attempt in few weeks ... hoping you'll be leaving us soon then (in nicest possible way  )

roxy - glad you sound a little better having shared true feelings with family. It's hard to actually let people in on things as their reaction can be more hurtful than helpful so really pleased they are supporting you. Hoping things move quickly for you now and that 2013 is the year to make you smile  

nettya - hello and lots of luck for 2013 to you too 

moominmum - how are you my love? Please post and let us know how things are going? Hope Xmas was okay  

sazzmataz - hoping xmas went okay for you and you got to do all the little things you wanted in memory of Poppy  

cooljules, canonlygetbetter, dillydolly, hopeful, rachelmaria, footsteps, mj1, tiny and anyone else I've missed - hoping all's going as well as it can for you at this difficult time of year and that you found some happiness over Xmas    

AFM: Xmas was mixed. The first leg of my journey at in laws was spoiled by fact mother in law kept going on about us not drinking, even telling us that "most children wouldn't be in the world if it wasn't for alcohol"!!! I felt so hurt as it just shows that despite everything we've said she's no clue as to what's going on in our lives.
At my family's I couldn't even look at my new niece on the first day we were there without feeling a huge pain inside thinking that my twins should have been with us having their first Xmas and would have been a similar size. I feel bad to my sister but didn't hold niece at all - she won't understand so that may cause bit of family friction! My pg sister I'm genuinely pleased for so actually being with her wasn't too bad - she's had about 5 MC in last year and has severe endo so it's a miracle that she's made it this far. Equally she has a bit of an idea of my pain so avoided conversations that might have hurt me which helped.
Thanks to my fantastic DD there were lots of really good bits too - I know how blessed I am to have her and this time of year really reinforces that for me. I know my pain at this time is eased by her & can't imagine how hard it must be for those of you who haven't got a miracle yet.
Now awaiting a date for laproscopy this month - to remove endo and hopefully boost natural chances. After conversations on long car journeys with DH think we will probably go for DE rather than OE as our final IVF attempt - now need to research that a bit better and fully convince myself that is what is best. Hard choice cos I'd so love another child that is a mix of me too but ultimately what we want is another child and with OE that just doesn't seem to be happening.

Ooops been chatting far too long - need to get to bed before mad day tomorrow. Hugs to all


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## deblovescats

Happy New Year girls!
hi to roxy and lesley - as you say, lets hope none of us are on here too long - for the BFP!!!
just got back from a family New Year tea -but just me, mother and maternal aunt! They're both very sweet, but struggle with the positivity at the moment. Had my aunt ( who doesn't know of my plans yet) sympathising and saying my cousin's wife thinks my sister and i need to extend the family (Which has been somewhat depleted due to bereavemnents!) fact we can't find a man - and i desperately want a baby, this doesn't help, but i grit my teeth and agree, as my aunt means well!!! Grrrr! She hopes 2013 is a luckier year! 
my sister works as cabin crew for BA and has gone back today for a trip to Lusaka, Uganda, where she visits an orphanage run by Polish nuns! She tries to visit orphanages if in countries where they need stuff, so she always takes baby clothes, baby bits and pieces, kids clothes, pens etc with her - we keep getting stuff donated to us from people we know who know what she does, but being surrounded by the things is a bitter reminder, though i manage to keep saying to myself that it's all in a good cause!
Maybe we'll need the stuff for me this year!!! lol
Deb


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## Sushi Lover

Afternoon girlies,

*Lesley* ...Glad you had a nice Boxing Day with the step kids. That's funny about your SD!! Cheeky thing. Made me laugh though. What is your watch like?  Maybe I'll put my name down on the list as well! My DP has pushed it with the EW about letting me meet their daughter. But the thing is, Izzy starts crying and says she doesn't want to meet me! So you can see his dilemma about pushing it further and upsetting his little girl. Problem is the EW has made me out to be worse than the Wicked Witch of the East and until Izzy meets me and breaks the ice then she can't be persuaded. To force her seems cruel. Sigh... so difficult.. once the court order is sorted then she can be gently cajoled I suppose. My DP needs Izzy to say to her Mum that she wants to stay over, but the poor kid is terrified of her overbearing and bullying mother. She'd rather keep the peace with her Mum. Everyone seems to have have walked on egg shells around the woman for her whole life because she just blows up and goes crazy. Serious issues!!

That was a shame you didn't see your Mum on Christmas Day. Did you see her on other days instead? Oh goodness, yes the bi-polar friend. March seems far too soon doesn't it?! I really feel for you. Keep up those brilliant acting skills honey.

Regarding your consultation... I suppose there is a chance the doctor will suggest donor eggs. Any possibility of talking DP around as it's last chance saloon? Your success rate would be much higher. It's a tough one isn't it?

By the way... one of my Christmas presents from a 'friend' ...."The Baby Making Bible... what are you doing wrong?" - How sensitive!

*Deblovescats*.... Welcome. I hope you get the boost you need. We all need that every once in a while. How exciting you have your flights booked to Greece with your appt at Serum! I bet you are counting the days. Fancy someone bringing their toddler to your work's Christmas lunch! Odd. That is amazing about your sister visiting the orphanages in Uganda. Must be so upsetting, yet rewarding at the same time. All that stuff that gets donated as well... wonderful to hear about. Have you thought about sperm donation? Or are you looking for Mr Right first? Unfortunately having a lovely man doesn't seem to make the process any easier or quicker. I got together with my Mr Right (at long last) when I was 38, and we've been trying a couple of years now. I always thought once I met him it would just happen. Shame life doesn't work like that!

*Roxy*.... Wow.. a post at 01:53! I'm never up past 10:30 these days! haha. I'm glad you found some much-needed support from your brother and sister-in-law. It can be a weight lifted from our shoulders when we tell someone. I told my Mum a bit about our journey before Christmas and we both had a little cry. I felt better afterwards. I hope you get your FET date soon.

*Nettya*..... ahhh, that's lovely you had a nice cuddle with your cousin's baby at Christmas. I take my hat off to you as I'm finding it more and more difficult to be around others' newborns, let know pick them up! You sound so positive and sure about your future steps. Good for you. I wish you much success and luck with your journey and pray there is a baby at the end of it.

*Fififi*...... my belly is already bigger after too much chocolate, mince pies, turkey, roast potatoes and cheese! Don't think that counts though. haha. I'm glad my posts help cheer people up. I feel better writing them and get my hugs from everyone else's' posts... so we are spreading the love! Definitely order your DHEA. I obviously don't know about my egg quality until the next treatment cycle, but I'm spurred on by the good AMH result. If the quantity has improved there will be more eggs to choose from.

What a charming comment from your Mother-in-law... I've had similar to be honest .."go out and get drunk, then have sex.. people get pregnant like that all the time".... grrrhhh. Sorry to hear about your sadness regarding the twins, I really felt for you whilst reading that part of your post. Don't feel bad about not holding your niece. You have to put yourself first and not do anything that will make you feel distressed. Bless your pg sister... that's a nice miracle story! Thank goodness for your DD as always. That's great about your discussion re DE. I'm proud of you for reaching such a difficult decision. (can I say I'm proud of you as I only chat to you on here?!) Anyway, you know what I mean. That's a great way of looking at it with your 'ultimate goal' in mind. When will you cycle again? I will go for my AFC when next AF arrives.... around 21st of Jan. Hopefully start all my injections that week all being well. Then EC and ET end of Jan, beginning of Feb I suppose. Gulp!

xxx


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## artist_mum

hi everyone

I just checked in on here after dropping the skids back (they have been staying here for the past 5 nights) and it's so lovely to see a few cheery messages for the new year from you all!

Debs - haha the rellies and those conversations about extending the family... what is it with people?!! But on the other hand,  count yourself lucky they still say it to you - when you get a bit older even that stops  

Fififi - You too had the 'unthinking rellies' conversations!  It does beggar belief sometimes that people don't just stop and think how others may be feeling.  Still, you got through it and as Kirsty says, its great not to start new year with a hangover!  Sounds good that you and your DH talked about possibly going with the DE.  I think like most things, once you get your head round it then it feels OK.  I also think there will be a lot of DE children growing up when these children do and it will be fine for them.  But its good to research it fully so you feel right with things, good luck in taking it all forward and with the laporoscopy.

Lesley - you are SO good doing those horses!  I have even struggled a bit just taking the dog out with the cold/rain.. but once you get out I know it feels good so yeah, well done! And not much longer..  Yes, telling my SIL and bro was a bit of an outburst, my DP looked surprised to say the least but they were fine with it.  Like you, my other relatives are less predictable so I won't be telling my mother at this point, like you say, the negative or critical response is too hard to bear and not worth the risk.

Kirsty - lovely new year's message from you - same back, have a fab 2013 with lots of  .  Your post just went up whilst I was writing, so have seen your update about Izzy.  That's really tricky - how old is she?  These mothers really do abuse their power and it is just such a shame for both your DP and the child.  In hindsight, in my case, I wish i had made more of the time when the children did NOT come here (she would not let me meet them for 6 months which actually is quite a reasonable time - altho irritating that she went ahead and introduced them immediately to 2 guys so far herself...).  But yes, I do wish I had more time to myself now that they are here every week.  But I understand how awful it is that the whole thing gets handled by the mother this way.  We did the first meeting in a really 'easy' way - he went to the park with them, and I turned up with my dog and we just chatted for a bit then I went off again.  And we did that slowly bit by bit, gosh, i can't tell you how many parks me and DP have sat in around Hampshire!!  So yeah, when the time comes I'm sure you will find an easy non threatening way to ease her in.  Poor kid!  I guess you get the mother you get, and that's it, but what a shame for her start in life..  Anyway and far more importantly, your dates are coming up.. as you so eloquently put it: gulp!  I know exactly what you mean!!  Best of luck Kirsty

Well as I'm spending far too long on here and have to get on with my essay (eugh!) here's a general hug to everyone reading, some      and a VerY HaPpY NeW yEAr!

Roxy xx


----------



## cornwall

Happy New Year everyone  

I had a very mixed Christmas too. DH's cousin had her first baby on Christmas Day! I'd hoped I would be pregnant by the time her baby was born but it wasn't to be. We haven't told anyone about our DE IVF attempts so no one knows how hard it was for us.

Fortunately, my clinic has a donor ready for us. I've just started my progynova and should be heading out to Cyprus in 2 weeks' time. I'm really hoping this is our year.


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hi *Roxy*, Izzy is 10. So she's old enough to know what going on and be able to say to her Mum she wants to stay over at her Dad's... but young enough to still be overwhelmed by her mother's histrionics. She's a quiet child by all accounts and just isn't brave enough to stand up to her. So sad isn't it? DP and I have been together 2 years now and everyone keeps asking about the step kids and I have to admit I haven't met Izzy yet. Feel a bit silly to be honest. But what can I do? DP mentions my name a lot and Izzy asks questions etc... seems ok about it and was really pleased with the pink iPad cover I bought her for Christmas, but still when DP asks her if she's ready to see his new home and meet me she just clams up and shakes her head. He gently asks why not and she says "Mummy will be cross". Grrrhhh. Mummy is nearly 50 by the time and you'd think she'd be old enough to deal with it. Instead her little girl is trying to protect her feelings and the witch lets her! The last comment was "Mummy will be lonely without me there".....the EW is obviously brainwashing her. Awful isn't it?

*Cornwall*..... hello lovie, I think a 'mixed Christmas' is a good way of putting it. Full of ups and downs. It's also so hard not to do the "I thought by this Christmas things would be different and I'd be pregnant"... I do it constantly and keep putting unrealistic goals ahead of me. Last Feb when I had my first IUI I worked out due date etc (stupidly) and what I'd do at Christmas with a new born, then by the summer and first IVF thinking about NYE, skiing trip and almost organising my life and diary around 'what ifs'. Basically making plans to incorporate a bump which I never got. I've now decided to stop setting these milestones and goals for myself ... around being 3, 6 or 9 months pregnant. I even starting thinking about not going on spa days because of avoiding jacuzzis and massages in first 3 months of pregnancy! "just in case"... you end up running your life around some sort of phantom pregnancy... bonkers!

That is great news about your donor!! How exciting. Hopefully January will be a lucky month for the both of us 

xx


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## artist_mum

Kirsty - yes it is really awful, and damaging for the child.  These kids grow up to be 'people pleasers' unable to put themselves first in their own life because they were never allowed to do it, right from a young age.  Makes me cross.  Poor little thing.  It also makes me cross for your sake, it is hard on the step mums who have to accommodate this 'wrong' behaviour in order to keep the peace when the behaviour is so clearly unjustified.  After 2 years of allowing the EW in my situation to effectively 'bully' me (verbally and with the attitude that it doesn't matter how I feel about anything) I finally stood up to her (verbally) on the phone a few weeks before christmas.  She only called as she wanted to persuade me to collect the children from school so she could be with her boyf.. anyway, I calmly told her a few things that I hadn't said in this past 2 years and felt I had finally stood up to her where other people, as you say, seem to let her behave however she wants.  Needless to say i didn't collect the children for her that day.  My SD is 9 so I get the picture on how it is for you/Izzy.  In my opinion someone needs to let her know (gently) that she is NOT responsible for her mother's feelings.  It will be doing her a favour altho i understand her fears if she has to live with EW.  But rest assured, in any case one day she will work it out for herself.  On the plus side for you, it does give you time to yourself to prepare for your cycle..... get relaxed etc haha.. that's easier said than done    

Cornwall - hi and happy new year.  wow!  2 weeks time...  all the best  

Lesley - hi again and thanks for your lovely words and the fairy dust.  And please don't worry so much on the 46.  They may cut off at that age at your current clinic but loads of clinics do older ladies so if it came to it, you wouldn't absolutely have to do it with them, would you?  You could do a one off cycle at somewhere else Create, CRM, etc  (or are you far away from London?).  Just a thought.  

Roxy xx


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## deblovescats

hi roxy - suppose i shouldn't mind that they still are commenting about extending the family! maybe this year I'll be able to oblige! 
Let 2013 be our year!
hi kirsty- my sister said it can be a little bit upsetting visiting the orphanages, the children are so desperate for some attention, but thankfully it's obvious the children are loved and have lots of attention (not like the terrible conditions some years ago in the orphanages in russia and romania where children were left all day in cots) - the orphanages in africa may not hve many material things, but the staff play with them. the kids love meeting visitors, and my sis says as she takes it direct, the things don't get siphoned off into the ruler's pockets! the orphanage staff also make a record of donations.thankfully the colleague with the toddler is on annual leave at the moment! 
in teh meantime, i cuddle my little fur babies! with meeting guys, if Mr Right comes along, all well and good, but in the meantime, I need to try it on my own, as i'd regret it if i didn't try, and then if i meet someone, hope he'd accept it if it worked out. Try not to think too far ahead.
Deb


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## Sushi Lover

*Roxy*..... unfortunately it seems she is already a 'people pleaser' at 10. Poor thing. Just does anything to placate and please her Mum. My DP has pointed out that she is not responsible for her mother's feelings (he is very quiet and gentle with her)... she just nods in understanding, but then clams up again. She finds it difficult to talk about. I'm hoping once the court date comes through that CAFCASS will talk to her as they are properly trained with this kind of thing. The EW's sister and mother are exactly like her so Izzy has no 'normal' female role model. She must think all female adults have some kind of personality disorder that children need to tiptoe around!

*Deb*...... those poor kids. But it's good to hear they are loved and have all that attention. I remember that documentary that Anneka Rice did years ago about the Romanian orphanages (showing my age now!...must have been early 90's)... I cried all the way through it. So upsetting. I'm glad it's not like that in Africa. Have you been out there? Good for you with regards to trying IVF on your own. I don't blame you at all and would do the same. You'd regret it if you didn't try and once you meet Mr Right he would definitely accept your child if he's a nice man. You only have a couple of weeks until your flight to Greece right? How exciting. Maybe we'll get our BFPs at a similar time 

xx


----------



## fififi

Evening ladies ... quick question re DHEA
I've lost all the stuff I'd written down on DHEA when I meant to order some before Xmas. I think I was recomended 3 x 25mg a day but totally forgotten whether capsules or tablets better.
If anyone who's taking/ordered DHEA could help me with my brain blockage I'd be very grateful. Also recommendations as to where to buy from appreciated.
Thanks!


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## dillydolly

Fififi

Not sure re dhea apart from someone saying they were told by consultant sublingual administration is best. If I was  going to take it I would go sub lingual!


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## Sushi Lover

Hi Fififi and Dillydolly,

My consultant recommended 3 x 25mg a day in a sublingual form (dissolve under the tongue).... as you've both said. Funny how these little titbits of info do stick even though you think you've forgotten!

I ordered mine from an American website called www.lifeextension.com. They were $8 (£5) for 100 tabs.... only problem is the shipping cost is expensive so it's worth ordering a few containers to make it worth while. Shipping is $25 (£15). I ordered 4 lots and paid a total of $56 (£35)... couldn't find 400 tablets any cheaper.

xxx

/links


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## LellyLupin

Hi Girls

Flying visit here, Mum is back in hospital so I am trying to juggle, hospital visits, horses, kids, dogs, hedgehogs, a fulltime job and a house so haven't had time to answer anyone.  Hopefully I will get a break sometime this weekend to talk more.  Bless DP he has mucked out twice this week for me and walked the dog, took the christmas decorations down and done the cleaning and food shopping, he really is a star at times.  Anyway must dash off to the hospital will catch up later.  I have something to run past you all that I thought of, but am not sure if I could go through with regarding donor sperm and not telling DP,  as he didnt tell me he had had a vasectomy for 5 years after we met.  Came to me in a panic moment but not sure I am calculating enough to pull it off.

Love Lesley xx


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## MJ1

Evening everyone,

It has been a while, sorry been quiet over Christmas. Had a nice break from work and Christmas wasn't as bad as I thought, still had the memories of last Christmas failed IVF but had to try and enjoy it. Managed to steer clear of babies until we visited my Stepbro on 30th, his boy is 10 months now and after my failed IVF last year I had to face his pregnant wife which was awful. But hey ho we are through it and due for our app at Lister on Thursday.... that has come around quickly. 
Have done alot of soul searching over Christmas and we might decide on ED..... it was something that I didn't want at the start of our journey 4 years ago, but it might be the only way forward for us. I don't mean to offend anyone by saying that, just hoped that I would have had our longed for child with my own eggs. So can anyone give me any advice? I will trawl the pages and see if there are any other pages on this topic. But if anyone can give me any advice I would appreciate it.

Fifffi,
Good luck with the DHEA, I hope it helps you :0)

Lesley, 
Sorry to hear that your mum is poorly again, it sounds like you have been mad busy too. Lovely DP for doing all the chores, it is nice when they do that :0)

Love to everyone, this is going to be our year ladies!

MJ1 xxx


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## Jammy J

Hi. 
I was on 75mg of dhea and ordered from biovia. Hope this helps x


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## fififi

Thanks jah, dillydolly & kirstylovessushi for DHEA advice - glad I hadn't totally made the numbers up!!! Can't seem to find sublingual DHEA in UK and the website kirsty suggested prices have gone up so works out about £42 (if p&p still same) which is more than I really wanted to pay at this time as want to be sure I don't get lots of side effects - my body seems to react to lots of things so will prob start off just taking 50mg day and see how get on. My consultant didn't stipulate a type so will prob just order the standard ones from biovea for now.

lesley - so sorry to see your mum is back in hospital. That must be so worrying for you on top of the fact it adds yet more pressure to your already packed life. Hope she improves again quickly  
Re your thoughts on having donor sperm I don't think you sound like the sort of person who would feel confortable long term if you did it. Your DP was a g*t to not have told you about the vasectomy and that's so hard to forgive, even harder to forget. But, not sure you doing something on the sly would work out - I don't properly know you but your kind, generous and supportive nature that is hugely apparent in all your posts seems at odds with this plan. My thoughts are you'd be better off continuing to make him feel guilty for the lie he told you and as a way of consoling you go along with another round of IVF

MJ1 - hi hun! Not sure if you saw my post last week but I too have come to similar conclusion as you over Xmas and we're currently looking into DE and what its implications are. My reasoning was that my dream is to have a baby and if DE is going to greatly improve that chance then that is probably better than just dreaming and wasting more time/money on much lower odds. Not got far with my research as yet but will keep you posted as I go.

Hope everyone has good weekend - catch up again soon.
Hugs to all


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## MJ1

Thanks Fififi lets hope it is our time


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## artist_mum

*mj1 and fififi* - as you probably know I went straight to DE due to my age (after an unexpected natural bfp at age 45 which made me and DP think to try this). It is such a personal decision, particularly the issue of going for an anonymous donor or known (which of course means doing it here or abroad). It does give you both so much more time though, and perhaps take the stress away in that regard - but I know it is a big decision, so good luck to you both in finding the way xx

*Lesley* - I agree with fififi, and she has put it so well in her post. You just don't seem the sort to carry that through and if I was you, I would be fairly insistent on him doing what you want after the way he behaved. Have you tried any alternative therapy/counselling for talking to someone, it is all so hard isn't it?! I went to meet a local Zita West accredited acupuncturist today to see if I want to start going for treatment by her prior to the tx. She was so nice & I wonder if something like that might help you too? You know, someone to talk to who understands all these issues us girls are facing! Sorry to hear re: your mum, hope she gets better soon. It sounds crazy busy for you at the moment. Sending a big  xx

*Kirsty* - that sounds like a good idea to have cafcass sort things out. It's a worry isn't it, to think there are so many kids out there having this kind of experience. Hope it gets sorted for you all. It's not easy I know. xx

*Debs* - best of luck with your search for Mr Right and I think you are doing exactly the right thing to go ahead with your plans in the meantime. Mr Right will turn up in his own good time and just when you least expect him to! And I'm sure he will respect you for following your dreams.. xx

Love to all
Roxy x


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## LellyLupin

Hi Feefs yes you are right, I know I couldn't do it, it was just a mad thought in a desperate moment    I am seeing my consultant on the 18th January and my brother is giving me the money to try again.  Sometimes I really resent DP for lying but I know I am not callous enough to do it.  Plus I wouldn't be able to stand the strain of it all I am crap at deceit  

Wow your MILs comment were a bit tactless to say the least, its great that you have such a supportive DH and he didn't inherit that bit of her!  I am glad you got through your family christmas intact, if you sister can't understand your reluctance to hold your niece then she must have something lacking, but saying that people who haven't been through it seem to just dismiss it offhand and just don't understand the pain of wanting something so badly.  I am pleased for your pg sister too, I hope everything goes smoothly for her it sounds like shes been through a lot. As for my Bi Polar friend I am rethinking that relationship, she has not once enquired after my Mum or offered any support so I am slighly miffed with her at the moment.  I am seeing her next Friday but to be honest I feel like cancelling, it all seems to be a one way street.  Her baby is due in March and I know she will be expecting me to play the dutiful support role as usual but frankly I get nothing back and I know the birth of this baby is going to really upset me.  The trouble with me is I can't stay miffed for very long and I forgive far too easily, plus I am waiting for AF so I could just be going hormone crazy!

Debs what a lovely thing for you and your sister to do, especially as as you say being surrounded by baby things is a constant reminder.  Why is it that the most loving caring people seem to struggle to conceive, and yet the horrible chavvy people can just spit them out one after the other, there is just no justice in this world!    I feel for you with your Aunt, people can say the most well intended things that hurt so deeply, I am sure if she knew your plans she'd be more tactful xx

Kirsty get to the back of the queue cos everyone seems to have dabs on my possessions    Honestly what a mercinary little sod my SD can be      I can see your dilema with Izzy, the poor kid seems to be stuck in the middle not knowing what to do.  Its funny how stepkids do learn to try to please everyone and it must be so high pressure for them.  My SS is a master at being diplomatic and not offending anyone.  Its a shame really as I am sure you and her would hit it off, and thats partly why EW doesn't want you to meet her.  Poor Izzy.
Wow the book from your 'friend'  speechless    How did you not hit her with it?  I guess she was just trying to be helpful     No hope on persuading DP re DE hence my mad idea about Donor sperm,  I have been thinking about DE especially as this really is my last attempt unless I win the lotto, I am feeling really desperate to make this one count.  He won't budge though so I am feeling a bit resentful as he put us in this position in the first place the git!  

I didn't get to see Mam until the day after Boxing Day as we have to take the Skids to DPs Mums on Boxing day.  I have been really worried about her and she has been back in hospital for the last 3 nights.  I felt so sorry for her yesterday as the lady in the next room to her died in front of her teenage kids, Mum just heard someone screaming Mum Mum please wake up!, but the lady had had a heart attack and died.  My brother and sister where there too as it was visiting time, and my brother said today that its been haunting him, he said it was the most heartwrenching thing he had ever seen.  It shook me up just hearing about it, I just want my  mum to get better and get out of there.  She told me she loved me tonight which she has never done before,  shes not a very demonstrative person and find its very hard to show/receive affection yet all four of us knows she loves us to bits.  It was strange to hear her say it outloud, then she told me she was worried that as I have no kids that I would have no one to look after me when I am old.  I thought 'oh Mum if only you knew'.  

On a lighter note (what a year this is turning into already), my workmate who I sit opposite decided to confide in me today that he wanted to have a sex change and come to work as a woman      Jeez you could have knocked me down with a feather, he is the most masculine man you will ever see.  Six foot with a huge roman nose and not one feminine feature in sight.  He then proceeded to show me his fingernails which were painted bright red with glitter over the top.  Sigh - I sometimes wonder if my life is some sort of endurance test.  I will keep you posted on what happens    

Roxy what were you doing up at 1.53?  You made me laugh with your introduction to the skids.  My first meeting with SS was when he was five and we went to Hartlepool Quay, we were sat in a pub and as I reached over the table for something I knocked a pint of coke (complete with ice) all over him.  We clicked from that moment on and spent the rest of the afternoon making towers out of the beermats. Meeting SD took place at my house, she was only one and spent the time playing with the coloured letters fridge magnets on my fridge, then just once as she toddled across the living room she put her hand on my knee to steady herself.  It took a good 3 years for her to run to me when she fell over instead of her dad, it used to really upset me that she cried for him when she woke up and not me.  All changed now though      I know what you mean about relishing the alone time with DP as we get the kids every weekend too.  I am a long way from London I am in the North East about an hour from Newcastle, I do wish I lived closer as you seem to have the best clinics down there xx

Cornwall good luck sweetie xx  I too did what Kirsty mentioned,  and each time I have done ivf I have gone on the due date calender on the net and calculated when it would be due etc,  then imagined all sorts of scenarios, I think we are all guilty of that and it does hurt when the milestones pass you by.  Hopefully this time you will reach your goals and can do it all for real    You too Kirsty xx

MJ  good luck on Thursday,  I think a lot of us come to the conclusion of DE,  I wish my DP would consider it.  Fifi is doing it too so you can compare notes.  Good luck to the both of you xx

I saw a post on a different thread of a lady whose triplets are due on her 50th birthday, hows that for a bit of positive news!!

Anyway DP is grumbling about being ignored so I had better sign off.  Much love to all of you wonderful women, I think you are all fab xx


----------



## dillydolly

Lesley lupin

You work mate story made me laugh, first the sex change then the nails! Poor man I hope he gets the support he needs

Also are skids step kids? Lol


----------



## desperate for a baby

Hello Ladies,

I hope you do not me posting on this thread. My name is 'Desperate for a Baby'.As my name suggest i am really desperate and i have ordered 3 months supplies of pregnacare conception and well man conception in a desperate attempt to conceive naturally. I would appreciate the opportunity to have another go at ICSI but financially we cannot. 

I have recently had a failed ICSI (December 2012). I am shocked and like other members here. My journey with ICSI was promising. produced good qualit follicles of 11 in total and 7 fertilised. However, the clinic decided to wait for blastocyst stag instead of day 3 transfer. Some of my embryos dies in the laband only 2 made it to 'morula' stage at day 5. They were not good looking either and was transferred with result at BFN. 

I have not rang the clinic since informed them that i have had AF. I am angry that they abandoned the day 3 transfer protocol they did back in 2003. I got a BFP and my daughter is 8 years old now. I know they will justify there actions were due to my age a blast was preferential.

The worse of all is that since we saw the consultant on our first consultation we never saw him again. The nurse did everything except  for the ebyrologist who came to take to us as i lay i the table to wait for transfer and afterwards trying to encourage me not to cry as the embryos may result in pregnancy. I just knew they willnot because i  knew it is not a god sign when they are at morula stage on day 5 post fertilisation.

My husband and i are left in debt ad anger about every thing. we have been through the mill this past month and still struggling to come to terms with the possibility  of never being able to conceive and have a baby    

We  are devastated and scarred to complain as the nurse found it difficult on the day to find the right place to put the embryos. This left me thinking they have not been put in the right place or worst still they remained in the catheter   .

Anyway, thanks for reading this but can anyone give me advice of how to raise concerns without causing problem for the nurses.


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## LellyLupin

I don't believe it its happened again I have lost a HUGE post  

Condensed verison follows.

Dilly I am glad my post made you smile.  I have worked with my workmate for the past five years and now he wants me to call him Shelly!  On a serious note I am very worried that he hasn't factored in the reaction of the people we work with.  We work on a chemical site with over 5000 men on it,  and I am worried about how they will react to Mike/Shelly.  At the moment he seems relieved that its out, but I am already hearing that the men don't want him using the mens toilets and the women don't want him in theirs.  I think this is going to be a very difficult transition for him and I hope he is mentally strong enough to deal with the discrimination and disgust he is going to face.  It will also be the end of his marriage as his wife doesn't know what he is intending to do. He has been told by HR that they do not recommend that he comes to work as a women but legally they cannot stop him.  

desperate for a baby I really think you need to book a follow up appointment with your consultant.  I wouldn't worry about upsetting the nurses, you are entitled to ask questions about your treatment, and it will help you deal with your anger and frustration.  Please let us know how you get and stay on this thread where we can support you   

Roxy I haven't had any counselling post ivf, but I did get some before DP had his reversal.  I just wanted make sure I really wanted a child before putting him through 3.5 hrs of micro-surgery.  Everytime she asked me to imagine my life without a family I burst into tears so I pretty much answered my own question by my reaction.  I do intend to go for counselling if my last attempt at ivf fails xx

Much love to all xx


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## julesbfd

Evening ladies
Don't post a lot but read your posts every day,hard at the moment as o my using my phone which doesn't show me what I am writing a d makes up its own words 
I have had 3 bfn within the past year,do well with the amount of eggs,get to day 5 for transfer but never a bfp
I have gad my follow up today and consultant said she does t think it is about implantation but that embryos are old and even though i had a perfect blast,they are not good enough
Last January before starting I had a hysteria opt to remove my tubes and have a s all fibroid burnt off.  Today she said there are two very small fibroids which she dies nit feel are hindering anything and I am incli ed to agree but has said she will do another hystroscopy to remove them
I feel I have nowhere left to go,I threw everything at my last go,inj progesterone,cake and and steroids to no avail
I have six frozen embryos from my last cycle which I will use but feel it is pointless
This is a difficult post to write as I cannot see what I have written so far
Any thoughts on what you ladies wound do,feel its the end if the road,de isn't for me,I am doin this as a signe lady,think I would feel different about it if I was with a partner


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## artist_mum

hi Jules
My heart goes out to you, what a tough journey.
I have to go out now, so just a quick post to let you know I am thinking of you/your situation.
I think one thing to hold onto is that you have done so much to make it happen, you know.. you haven't just sat there and done nothing.  
I wasn't brave enough to try on my own before i met dp although I did consider it. ( I was 44 when we met.)
Before meeting him I had pretty much decided that I would like to foster children and experience mothering in that way.  
I have to dash now, but will post again
big   to you
all the best
Roxy x


----------



## Moominmum

Hi All,

Sorry for lack of personals this time (too) but I just leave it too long to write although I read the thread every day.

Just want to stress once again how much I admire all of you with Skids in particular considering your own struggles. And in addition to this there seem to be way too many nasty EWs around!

AFM, I do not know what our next steps are. I am not as emotionally unstable as I was straight after tx and have been able to see some babies over the Xmas holidays and even invite DS's friends and their mums who all came with younger siblings in tow of course. I even managed to tolerate (although I was exploding inside of me) a conversation about how awfully hard it was with two kids and wasn't it so much easier with one... Anyway, before having DS I was always into (international as that is what you do in Sweden) adoption and I am looking into that again.

It is so annoying that there is so little research and efforts put into the 40+ category. E.g. I understand that all the grading of embies in one way means very little to us. The grading is about the likelyhood of the embie sticking or something but says NOTHING about the quality of it, which is what we get thrown in our faces when a tx is not working. Gaah, so frustrating.

I am thinking of having another AMH and FH test done, but then I am worried that the result will be depressing so I am not sure.

Baby dust to all - 2013 here we come! 

P.S. *Lesley*, so sorry to hear about your mum. I hope she is better now.


----------



## hopeful68

Hi all,
i havent been on here for a while - part of my 'recovery' i think - to step away and get my head/house and husband back on track!! after my dissapointing followup, i feel in some ways a pressure is off. it is never going to be a natural thing for me so no stress every month is a nice position to be in in some ways. we are looking tentatively in to embryo/DE or adoption but are going to take a few months to enjoy ourselves and see if just us is enough! Christmas was a stress not due to kids but pets!! my dog has a major tumour removed on the 21st. (grapefruit sized!!) he was recovering well and then on the 28th had a spinal embolism - ohh his pain, we were thinking it was the end for him bu the vet wanted to give him time. there is some improvement but regular pain relief is the key - at least he is walking again!! a lot of sleep has been lost this past few weeks!! good news - i was too tired to get stressed over an assignment so passed rather than flunk due to nerves!! 

Any how - enough of ME!! i have had a bit of a skim through and lots has happened to you all. not much i can offer advice on i am afraid but i am wishing you all a happy 2013 - in what ever form happiness that is!! 
i think my word for this year is 'acceptance'! 

love to you all.....

M


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## Sushi Lover

Morning everyone,

*Lesley*.... sorry to hear your Mum is back in hospital. Your DP sounds like an absolute angel doing all the HW and mucking out the horses!! I agree with the other girls regarding the sperm donor. I really don't think it would 'sit well' with you in the long run Les. I can imagine it's hard to forgive him for not telling you about the snip, and he has to live with that now, but you really don't sound like the kind of person that would do something like that behind his back. If it did result in pregnancy and a baby, would you still be able to continue with the lie that the baby is his? I think that would destroy you, living with that secret information. Keep up making him feel guilty and that he owes you another try of IVF with DE... it's the least he can do after the vasectomy lie! Is he a stubborn person in general? Will he not even consider it? Not even have a chat with the consultant about it? The book was sent from a friend in Canada, so at least I didn't have the problem of saying thank you through gritted teeth. How lovely your Mum told she loved you after all this time. I bet that made you cry. Some people just find it really hard to show emotion I suppose. Blimey, how funny about Mike/Shelly! Poor guy must have been in bits living as a man for all those years when he felt like a woman inside. I can imagine the toilet situation being a problem. Do you not have a disabled/unisex one Shelly could use? Yes, I saw the post about the lady expecting triplets on her 50th birthday too! How incredible and hope for us all.

*MJ1*.... I totally agree with you regarding longing for a child with your own eggs. Reaching a decision to try with DE is a tough one and I admire you for reaching this. I'm still in a quandary about it. Their are lots of girls that have had treatment with DE on this site. I hope you find the info you are looking for. Are you thinking about going abroad for it or staying in the UK?

*Fififi*....good luck with the DHEA. I don't blame you for going down he cheaper route. I would have done as well if my consultant hadn't specifically stipulated the sublingual form. How are you getting on with your DE research? If you go abroad does that provide anonymity of the donor that the UK doesn't have? Not sure how I'd feel about my child trying to contact his/her egg donor in 16 years time. Tough one.

*Roxy*.... Thanks for your support and advice re Izzy. We are hoping to get the court date through soon so that it can all be legally sorted out. We decorated our spare room for her for about a year now! She'll outgrow the fairy lights and princess canopy over the bed at this rate!! Maybe I should be putting One Direction posters on the wall?

*dillydolly*... yes, skids is funny one eh?! Always makes me chuckle. Poor step kids getting called the skids!

*Desperate for a baby*..... welcome, I know how you feel lovie.. tough isn't it? Sorry to hear your ICSI didn't work in December. We all know how you feel. You really need a follow-up with your consultant as Lesley said. All that money you are paying you are entitled to say what you want, don't worry about upsetting the nurses. I can't imagine the consultant telling them everything the patients say. There is a big debate on whether the 2, 3 or 5 day transfer is best. To be honest, I think that if the eggs/embryos are of good enough quality then they will thrive in the lab or your womb no matter what else happens. My clinic thinks the womb is the best place and will transfer as early as poss, but others prefer to see how strong the embryo is on day 5 in the petri-dish before transferring. I don't think either way is better or worse. If the embryo is a good one then it will continue growing where ever it is. I'm not sure there is a 'wrong place' to put the embryos. I believe they try and place as high up as possible to mirror nature and expel them close to the fallopian tubes. They just float around for a few days before implanting anyway. So I don't think a few cms to the left/right or in the middle will matter. With the catheter quandary, don't worry about that... they always put the catheter back under the microscope to check they have been expelled. Next time I would ask for a Doctor or your consultant to do the transfer though. Rather than the nurse. That may help to reassure you.

*Julesbfd*.....I feel for you. It's great you have 6 frozen embies though! I wish I did. They say it can be more successful to transfer them when the body is fully rested and recovered from the trauma of IVF. So don't lose hope. I would definitely get rid of the fibroids and have a FET. If that doesn't work then maybe try DHEA supplements to improve your egg quality? Don't give up.

*Moomin* ... long time no see/speak! Glad you are feeling better and emotionally more stable. That's great about the adoption idea... best of luck with your research. I'm going to try the EEVA thing next cycle (Early Embryo Viability Assessment) System to see if that can help assess the embryos from a quality perspective. I'm also on the DHEA now (2 months) so I'm hoping this may have a positive effect on my egg quality. We'll see after this treatment cycle I suppose.....

*Hopeful*.... I'm glad the pressure is off for you. You never know, this could be the trick in achieving a natural BFP! They always say stress can be a hindrance. Wouldn't it be ironic if you now fell?! Best of luck looking into DE or adoption and enjoy your few months of rest. Nice holiday on the cards? Your poor dog... sounds so painful for him. Congrats on passing your assignment too.

*AFM.*... nurse's chat tomorrow before my next IVF cycle. Looking forward to getting going again. Different drugs this time around and back to a short protocol as had a better response with that.  

KLS xxx


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## MJ1

Hi Kirsty,
Thank you for your wishes, I am still deliberating the DE side of things. I know nothing about it and maybe the more I look into it I may decide it isn't for me, DP is easy he just wants a child and as an ex donor himself he can see why people do it. Sorry if this souds nieve, but what were you askig Fiffi about anonymity? I did have this discussion with DP at the weekend and felt that I do not want anyone to know it is DE, and if we did get pg and I chose not to tell the child then wouldn't that solve the problem? I did say to DP I would be heartbroken if he/she grew up and wanted to find their own biological mother.... 
MJ1 xx


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## MJ1

p.s good luck for tomorrow


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## Sushi Lover

Hi *MJ*,

In the UK I believe that a child born from a donor egg can have access to the donor's details at the age of 16. I'm with you on this one and wouldn't want my child knowing he or she came from a donor egg (I know others disagree as there's a moral issue involved here). I mean it's not as if the baby was born and adopted, thereby having a biological mother in my definition. Donating an egg doesn't really dictate the word 'mother' does it? Unfortunately there is still some sigma attached to donor eggs and maybe in years to come a lot more babies will be made this way and it will be more 'out in the open' .. I think this is Roxy's philosophy.

There is a ton of psychology behind whether you tell the child. Do they have the right to know from a potentially medical/genetic issue or just a moral one etc. etc.

On the flipside I think that clinics abroad have the donor anonymity thing. So the children cannot trace the donor in year to come. That is why a lot of women go to Spain, Greece and the Czech Republic. It is cheaper as well, plus donors are in a greater supply (probably because they do not want to be tracked down in 16 years time) and just see it as donating a bundle of cells rather than wanting to be a biological mother to a teenager in time!

So, I suppose going abroad can solve problems in women struggling with their consciences.. you can tell the child he or she came from a donor egg, but it was from a clinic abroad so there isn't a way to trace them. Whereas in the UK, the donor is traceable. Or just not tell them at all. I mean, you'd feed it, give it nutrients from your blood supply, give birth to it, nurture, look after and bring the child up. Surely not telling the child he/she came from a donor egg is no big deal... is it?! Sigh... it's a minefield isn't it?

I'd be interested to hear others' views and won't be offended if you shoot me down in flames! 

Also please correct me if my facts are wrong in any way girls!!

KLS xx

p.s. thanks for the good luck message MJ


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## MJ1

Hi Kirsty,

Thank you for the detailed response.. interesting, I never knew.  As I say still looking into it and finding info out on here everyday. Got my app at Lister on Thursday afternoon so will find out more. 
Have heard it is a 6-9 month wait too.  

I am the same thinking as you. It is just a bunch of cells and if it wasn't for the donor recipient then there would be no baby. I think I would rather keep it to myself and between me and DP. 
Sorry ladies if I do upset anyone but we are all entitled to our opinions , be it the same as Kirsty and I or not.
We are all different and that makes the world go round. 
MJ1 xxxx


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## Sushi Lover

Sorry I babbled on a bit there!

One last thing...  I don't believe they have long waiting lists abroad either, because of the greater supply of egg donors.  Something else to mull over  

I thought about going to Greece, Spain, Cyprus, but I'm fair-skinned and blonde so the chances of finding a donor that looks like me is pretty low.  The Czech Republic could be an option I suppose.

Good luck with your appt on Thursday, looking forward to finding out more from The Lister.  All my info is from this site and the internet rather than the clinic directly so it will be nice to know the proper facts.

x


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## artist_mum

hi

* kirsty and Mj1*

Kirsty is spot on with my thoughts on the de issue, and I also just have a 'out in the open' approach to most things in life - so everyone knows what is the truth and can deal with that in their own way rather than possibly finding out and feeling hurt. But as MJ1 says, we all have our own views and I totally respect ANYONE on this journey.! And I respect whatever decisions they feel they want to take because at the end of the day there are pros and cons with any position in this.

Just to clarify on the anonymity as I understand it:

UK - has to be a known donor that can be traced by the child if they want to. So you cannot donate anonymously here.
Spain, Greece, Cyrus etc - Has to be anonymous so in Spain for example, you cannot donate to your sister or friend as it MUST be anonymous. So people apparently donate generally and their sister/friend can get an anonymous child separately. If they wanted known donation, they would have to come over here to do it where of course it HAS to be known. Weird isn't it, that it just depends where you live. So in Spain you get given some donor information (we just know the age of our donor) but the child cannot trace the donor at any stage altho there is a written in part of the blurb that says you can trace them if the child's life is at stake. Other clinics in Spain give more information about the donor than we have (like hair colour etc).
USA - known donor and you can choose literally from a picture/catalogue!!

This means there are plenty donors in Europe and you can get matched quickly - depending on your colouring i suppose. For me it was a simple choice to go with Spain as I am dark haired, often mistaken for spanish and I love the country! So we have gone for that.

If we are lucky enough to get a bfp, and our dream baby, I will prefer to let them know as soon as they are old enough to understand. But I know this is a totally personal choice to make.

*Lesley*
A friend of mine works for IBM and has a transvestite colleague - i think he just dresses up for outside work which is odd for my friend as she meets him for a drink in town and he is all glammed up. One 'upside' for my friend (who supports him a bit i think) is that he buys loads of women's magazines and passes them all on to my friend  But seriously, it must be so hard for these guys (or girls the other way round) and it puts our hardships into some kind of perspective I think. Hope it works out ok for mike/shelly. And I hope you get things sorted this month, that your mum improves, and perhaps once the horses are gone you may get a bit more me-time! I hadn't realised you were so far north - yeah, that is a long way to come. Your skid meeting stories were so sweet - and it's lovely that they turn to you. You are so much already a mother you know... altho I do know that it doesn't make it ok. Sometimes worse in fact. Hey ho.. we do our best huh! 1.53am Yes, i was stressed out and unable to sleep (wasn't feeling too well and the skids were here & it all got on top of me) BUT better now! And endeavouring to sleep and eat at the right times!

*Moominmum* lovely to read your news. international adoption is a totally lovely idea. I Love the idea of that. I think you have to go through the whole UK adoption process? Although they have apparently speeded (or sped?!) it up and it isn't as long as it used to be. Good to hear you have settled a bit since last tx. I hope things get clear for you. And well done for not socking that person in the jaw when they went on about the work with 2 kids .

*kirsty* haha One Direction.. you are more in the know than me! Altho my patient sufferance of the Pop Party 8 CD on long car journeys should be applauded, though i say it myself!  Hope things get off to a good start tomorrow

hi also dillydolly, hopeful, jules and desperateforababy

AFM Went to the GP to get my prescription fulfilled (going to take pill at my next AFM plus need hrt, progesterone & decap). She was nice but then said that she would not help on any future prescriptions... Fair enough I suppose, i was surprised she helped me so much up to now. But i felt down about the conversation, you know a reminder that I am older. Found a zita west acupuncturist, seeing her tomorrow, hopefully she can help with positive feelings, I think we all need those   

Roxy xx


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## MJ1

Roxy,
Thank you for clarifying that for me. Yes it is a personal decision and I appreciate that too. Good luck and keep us posted  
MJ1 xx


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## Sushi Lover

Hiya *Roxy,*

Thanks for the clarity regarding the donor egg process. There is so much info to learn on this subject. So, in Spain, do they match you up depending on hair/eye colour, skin type, height, build, education etc.? but can't pass that info onto you? Or do you just go on a list and when you get to the top of it you are 'given' a donor? Any ideas where I could travel to find donors of a similar look to me? My DP is part Portuguese so is a similar colouring to you and is always a bit tanned...annoying so for me as I'm fair-skinned, do not tan easily and have blonde hair and green eyes. That rules out most of the European clinics!

Pop Party 8 sounds like hell on earth!!

That's nice of your GP to give you a NHS prescription for your drugs. Mine won't even entertain the idea!

I've been having weekly acupuncture for about 10 months now. Clearly no further along the line to conceiving, but I really feel it's doing some good with the tense muscles and stress relief. When I first started going I nearly hit the ceiling when she (quite aggressively) massaged my shoulders and lower back/hip area (she thinks my whole pelvic region is tense and knotted...it was so painful and hard to tough). Now I can cope with it and just give a little 'oww' never now and again! Plus my tummy is really warm now and my circulation is so much better (hardly have ice-cold hands and feet now). So I hope you get some positive vibes from it as I have done.

KLS x


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## Moominmum

*Kirsty*, how about Denmark? Donors are anonymous by law there too. I found this clinic for example http://www.copenhagenfertilitycenter.com/uk/

I don't know this clinic in particular but I do know that many Swedes goes to Denmark for tx as they are less restrictive in Denmark.

Moominmum x


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## Sushi Lover

Oooh great! Thanks *Moomin*.... I'll take a look.

KLS xx


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## hopeful68

on donor eggs/embryos..... i looked at a russian site. different costs depending on what you go for. donor unknown/annonymous but you can get: a random donor egg, a matched donor egg (hair, skin eyes) etc, a 'left over embryo, or a matched embryo from donor egg/sperm if required. all affect costs ie matching costs more than a 'pot luck' egg/embryo. for an embryo transfer i believe a 2 day visit is all that is needed - that and £££!!  if i re-find the site i will post! - just to add to the decision making info!!

M


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## artist_mum

hi kirsty & mj1

Moominmum's danish suggestion sounds like a great idea. I always think Scandi's are more healthy than us too! On our 'matching', it all happened really quickly (like from first appointment to tx was less than 2 months which is usual for Eugin) so I think they just match physical characteristics like height, hair and eye colour but only tell you age.  It helps I guess if you don't look alike to the DP - So i have blue eyes, he has brown etc which must be easier for them.  I think in US it is more thorough, like with education etc.  Sounds awful but we didn't really analyse further than this, we just felt good with Eugin (our clinic in Spain) and went for it.  I read on a FF string somewhere (probably DE questions) that there are other spanish clnics that do give MORE information than ours did and that legally they can tell you a lot more than just the age.  So if you do consider Spain it could be worth checking that out - that is, if you want more info. 

Another thing is that the 2 months it took included all the tests they made because I was over 45.  So that was mammogram, electrocardiogram, smear, all bloods etc.  So it is usually very quick with DE if abroad (but i think slower here due to wait lists but don't know for sure on that).

Your acupuncture Kirsty, sounds excellent and I am really hoping it will help me generally.  I can be such a stress head at times.  I met her on friday to see if I liked her/the practice and am looking forward to tomorrow's session.  On the GP front, pretty amazing they helped me at my age really given the NHS does not support any of this for us older chicks.  So yeah, we have been grateful.

And yes, pop party 8 is really grim  

hiya to the other FF'ers reading.

Roxy xx


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## hopeful68

http://www.avapeter.com/en/about/ russian web site for you....... as promised!!
/links


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## fififi

Hi all ...

Not got much time I'm afraid but wanted to add to the DE conversation that I've found out even if you do chose to have treatment in UK it's up to you whether you tell child or not. From what I've read the reason UK seems to have made it not anonymous is so that if later on in life your child has a specific medical problem they could have access to their genetic history. Currently there's no central database with donor details on but clinics are predicting this might be in place from about 2016.
I'm still unsure whether or not you have to register the child's birth any differently to a purely "natural" one. Plus I think it is up to you whether you let midwife etc. know how the conception happened so in theory no-one will know unless you chose to tell them.
DE is becoming more common so I'm guessing that in 16/18 years time it will be as normal to say you've had DE/DS treatment as it is now to say you've had IVF. My neighbour has a 20 year old daughter via IVF and she has told me how hard it was as back then it was something rarely talked about and that you felt you had to cover up.

In our case as we've been fortunate to have been given one little miracle we will probably stick with UK as travelling abroad is lot of added stress for us. I'm nervous about idea that any child would want to locate "natural" mother but equally unsure whether I'd want to cover up the donor side forever. I think as long as it's just been kept between you & DH/DP then it's probably something you can keep hidden as all the actual growing and development into a little being has been done inside his/her Mummy's body. But, do think if others were made aware then it's only right you are the ones to tell your child in case it comes out somehow.
My DD is only 4 but she knows she was a very special baby - having taking 5 years and god knows how many hospital trips to make. She's been to the clinic where she was "made" and is happy about the fact that she was so wanted that we weren't able to make her like other mummies & daddies might. She's already totally embarrassed me by explaining to various kids & teacher at her playgroup about how "mummies can go to hospital so that doctors can do a special operation to put a teeny baby in their tummies if their own tummy isn't working quite right"!!!! Needless to say teacher had to come and warn me that more people than I'd expected now know about why I wasn't around that week!!!

Right now my logic - if we do go ahead with DE - is that we'll let child (if we get lucky) know that they were conceived via IVF but leave it at that. Later on, if it seems right, I'd introduce the DE part by telling them about all that we did to try and create another baby and how we lost so many due to fact my eggs weren't quite right hence we needed to use someone else's eggs to make sure our baby was born healthy.

Not sure if my ramblings help anyone else but it's the first time I've put my thoughts down and actually feel quite okay about having said what I've said so perhaps more ready than I realised.

PS. Got my NK cell biopsy results back today and they are clear - which is obviously good news but as ever part of me wishing that a problem had been picked up so that had something to blame for lack of baby!!! (No pleasing some people hey!!!!)


PPS. Few quick personals:
- lesley - hope your mum doing better and is home soon   
- desparateforababy - agree with others about telling clinic what you feel/think. They are charging you for a service so it's only fair you say what's good & what's bad. Equally as each clinic does things slightly differently their process might be what usually works best and they thought they'd done the right thing by waiting for Day 5. From HFEA results it does suggest Day 5 transfers generally have highest success rates - but obviously that doesn't help how you are left feeling right now. I'd suggest leaving your review for about month until you feel you'll get best out of it for you as a couple. Sorry you didn't get a happier outcome  
- kirsty - good luck with your appointment and hope you soon get to leave us as no longer a lady who our thread's title applies to!!!


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## fififi

Hmmmm for someone with little time I seem to talk too much  

Night xxxx


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## MJ1

Morning Ladies,
Thank you for all your help, advice and support re DE. I am pulling together a list of questions for my consultation on Thursday. Is anyone able to help me with what I should be asking as this is all new to me. As you know time is limited in the consultation so I don’t want to miss anything vital.
Thanks
MJ1 xxxx


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## Sushi Lover

Morning girls,

*Hopeful*...... thanks so much for the info on the Russian site... I'll take a look. I'm really not sure about the random donor eggs, would much rather pay a bit more and be matched. Something else to think about though! I haven't a clue about the difference in cost yet.

*Roxy*.... interesting about the matching process. I always wondered about the eye colour inparticular and the genetics behind. I mean if your baby had blue eyes and you both had brown that would be physically impossible right? I'm struggling to remember everything from GCSE/A Level biology! So I suppose it's better to try and match with a donor egg so that the baby would have the same physical characteristics as you or DP in nature. The thing with Spain for me is that our baby would look exactly like DP with dark hair and tanned skin, but nothing like me! I think that if I did go down the donor egg route I'd want to at least try and have a baby that had similarities of us both. Will research Russia and Denmark a bit more.

*Fififi*..... such a long post! haha. It makes me laugh when you start off saying you don't have much time and then type loads!  I'm pretty sure you just register the child as in any natural birth. I've never heard anything to the contrary. I agree with you that it will be so much easier to talk about in years to come.... as with IVF. I suppose there used to be a sigma attached to it and not being able to conceive naturally made people gossip about you. Awful isn't it. Thank goodness such a lot has changed since then. That's such a brilliant way of describing things to your daughter. I love the "special operation to put a teeny baby in their tummies if their own tunny isn't working quite right" Bless! Your ramblings have helped me make things a bit clearer. I felt the same about the immune testing... mine were all clear as well as you almost want them to find a problem so there is something to blame and fix. Thanks for your good luck message.

*MJ1*.... hiya, I want to give you some advice, but I haven't been down this route so am as in the dark as you I'm afraid! I hope Roxy answers and gives you some tips. She's a mine of info regarding all this. I suppose the obvious ones are about the matching process, waiting list time, anonymity issue, registration of birth, donor info, donor/child contact in the future and really about the success rate with DE as oppose to OE, because that's the main reason we are all considering it. How much more likely is it that you will achieve a BFP than with your own eggs. It's a lot more expensive so you want the odds to be a lot higher.

*AFM*... Nurse's chat at 1:30 today. Excited, but nervous. I'm hoping I don't have any cysts because of the DHEA which will delay my treatment. Doubtful that I'll know the answer to that until my AFC though. Think today is all about the injection procedure, getting my prescription etc. Nothing too worrisome.

xx


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## cornwall

Hi everyone,

After missing out on a second cycle last month, I was given a new date of 23rd January. This changed to 13th/14th January then, last weekend, I got a call to say the donor was ready for egg collection on 9th! So, I'm all packed and ready to fly out this evening. Fingers crossed, I'll be PUPO on Saturday  

Best wishes to all.


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## Moominmum

Just a quick Good Luck Today to *Kirsty*!

P.S. Not that I am biased towards anything Scandinavian, but it is really easy to travel to Copenhagen, and a short journey, and it is an amazing city to visit too


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## Moominmum

Oh and just saw *Cornwall's* post - how exciting! Good Luck and I cannot wait to hear your updates.


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## Coolish

Lots of chat at the moment about DE!

*Kirsty* - not everyone in Spain is 'dark hair, dark skin'. When we went for our first appointment for DE in Alicante I'm so fair skinned that the consultant told me off as I'd caught the sun on my shoulders and told me to stay out of the sun. Lots of spaniards also have fairer colouring. I have friends who live in Barcelona (one is Spanish) and it's very common in that area to be much fairer. The clinic we went to takes all your details and photos to help with the matching.

*MJI* - I'd be asking about the matching process - characteristics they use. Also waiting lists (usually none in Spain). How long to sync you with the donor cycle and what protocol they use (my clinic used the contraceptive pill). Are the donors 'proven' - i.e. do they already have children (or other DE IVF success). Number of eggs typically produced by a donor. Age of donors. Tests they perform on donors (physical and psychological). Do they use a back up donor (one cycle last year I had the donor not responding well so they used a backup donor, which meant I only have a couple of weeks delay at the most). Also it's worth checking on EC and fertilisation. My last clinic wanted my OH there for a fresh sperm sample and we had 5 days transfer which meant being over in Spain for a week. The clinic I'm going to this year prefers frozen sperm so we don't have to be there for EC - which can be real panic time to get flights and hotel sorted as you only get about 48 hours notice.

With DE, it's always up to you whether or not you tell the child. The difference in the UK is that the child should be able to trace the donor as it will always be via a known donor. In other countries, it's anonymous so tracing isn't possible. I don't really view this as DE babies having a 'natural mother' that's the donor. It's not like adoption where the someone else carries the baby. In DE, it is literally cells that grow in you to become a baby. I think it will be regarded as blood transfusions at some point. Sorry if that offends anyone, but it's my view.

*Cornwall *- how exciting - not many days to go now!


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## Sushi Lover

*Cornwall*.... oh wow, what great news. Praying hard for you. Keep us in touch! 

*Moomin*.... thanks a lot! I just had a look on the Danish website and it said donors are in short supply and they often go to Spain, Greece or the Ukraine to supplement their donor supply. What a pain. Copenhagen is really close as well.

*Cooljules*... sorry, I probably sounded a right dummy with my presumption of Spanish people having dark hair and skin. Bit narrow-minded of me. That's good to know they can match just as easily if you are fair-skinned as well. Because I'm really blonde I just had it in my head that most donors would be dark-haired in Spain and ruled it out. I'll have to re-think that. Thanks for the info!

xx


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## MJ1

Hi,
Kirsty, thank you for your response, all questions have been noted :0) Good luck for your chat later with the nurse  

Cornwall, oh wow, how exciting good luck and kep us posted.

Cooljules, thank you also for your words of wisdom, it has been a huge help.

Thank you ladies for taking the time to write back, it is so helpful. I have saved all the info on a word doc and will be adding to it.  More info welcome if anyone has got the time?

MJ1 xxx


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## Moominmum

*Kirsty*: I never checked that - how silly of me! The other clinic I know of in DK is Stork, but I cannot find anything about egg donation there...


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## Sushi Lover

_"In Denmark very few women themselves, in fertility treatment, choose to donate surplus oocytes to other women. Likewise - only a small number of women will commit themselves to oocyte donation without being in treatment.

Copenhagen Fertility Center offers oocyte donation, but there are very few Danish donors. However, a much larger program for oocyte donation is done in collaboration with clinics in Greece, Ukraine and Spain"_

I took this from the Copenhagen website... how annoying!

K x


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## Sushi Lover

*Fififi*... after our conversation regarding the immune issues and all being well, I've just returned from Nurse's appt and have been told my NK cells are higher than they should be! So that was a shock. The previous letter I received said all other immunes were fine, but this took longer to get back from Chicago apparently. Part of me is pleased they've possibly found the cause and something to fix, but the other half is still a bit upset that I've got these in my body. I wish my last clinic had run these tests over a year ago as I'm wondering if all previous attempts were futile and it's money down the drain?

Anyway, work with what I've got now... start my Norethisterone tablets to stop any cysts forming tomorrow for 10 days. Then phone to book scan on day 1... in for my intralipid infusion that same week. It takes 2 hours!! Another one after EC. Plus it's another £400. I can't even think about how much it's all going to cost!! 

K xx


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## fififi

kirsty - Sorry to hear your NK results weren't good  . It's a double edged sword getting results back isn't it?!! Like you say at least that means you will be taking something to overcome them and that might just be the thing you need to make this time THE time. I'm sure if you mentally know you're doing something extra not tried before that helps too    

cornwall - lots of luck for the weekend


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## artist_mum

wow.. loads going on on here at the mo!

*cornwall* how exciting, best of luck to you, loads of   . Hope all goes well and you have a calm, relaxed transfer. We will wait to hear!

*mj1* i think that jules covered most of the de questions - you are going into this a lot more prepared than I was! One thing to mention: In my case I now find that the spanish clinic do not consider immunes hence me getting that bit done at UK clinic. So if that may be an issue for you, it might be worth asking (if they will test/treat for immune issues). Also on anonymity, just to reiterate, that there is a clause somewhere in spanish law I believe which says that the donor may be traced if the child's life is at stake. Otherwise, unlike UK, the child cannot go look for the donor. Hope your appointment goes really well and you get further down the line with your decisions.

*kirsty* Gosh, that is a turnaround on the immunes but yes, it's got to be a good thing that this could be a factor and this intralipid thing does seem to be causing a lot of attention - improving chances - so that's good. I was going to mention about the spanish blondes.. When we went over there (barcelona) we were really surprised at how many fair skin, fair hair and blue eyes we saw. I kept thinking 'what if they matched me with _that_ person, or _that_ person & they are too fair!' Drove DP potty  I think we all have this picture in our head of the typical spaniard or greek or russian but actually most are quite different from one another .


----------



## deblovescats

hi guys
hope you're all doing ok.
i'm on countdown now till jan 19th - initial appt at serum 
i'm with you on the DE jules - it is only a collection of cells, whereas in adoption, someone else nurtured the baby in their body. i suppose like with donating blood - you don't think 'i'd love to trace my donor! 
i'm coming to terms with the fact that a potential child can't trace their donor abroad, but that's maybe a good thing, as it's us who are nururing the child if we get a BFP
my cousin and his wife adopted two girls aged 18 mths and 3 years and think of them as their own even though she didn't give birth to them such as with egg donation. i think the issues of tracing a biological mother would be greater for them than with egg donation - that's just my thoughts though, i know we all have different views
had a stressy day  - baby clinic 21 attended! very busy as we were closed over xmas/new year- it gets harder every time seeing little babies
hopefully that'll be all of us some day
i'm fed up with colleagues saying they're glad to be back at work for a break!!!! away from the kids. some of us were working over this last couple of weeks, keeping things together!
Deb


----------



## fififi

deblovescats - your job if I've understood right (in a baby clinic?) must be so tough on you. I admire your strength at managing to go to work when that's what you're faced with all day. I work with 5-11 year olds and that's hard enough so can't imagine how heartbreaking your days must often be. Not helped by insensitive, stupid colleagues either!!! 
Hope you appointment goes well and that your next cycle means you'll be smiling so widely 24/7 you won't even know you're at work     

Quick update for mj1 (and anyone else at early stages of considering DE)
- cost in UK might not be so bad as although the cycle itself is about double (so plus about £2650) you don't have to pay for the expensive drugs (stims) so should only be about £150 for your drugs. My OE cycles I spend about £1400 on drugs so for me I think it will cost an extra £1500. I'd previously thought that sum would be nearer £3000 more so am pleasantly surprised - though it's still a f**k of a lot of money that I haven't got!!!!
- waiting time again better than expected in UK. I've contacted 3 clinics near-ish to me (East Midlands) and they say 2-5 months but often less
- the clinics I've contacted in UK say they will tell you donor's characteristics but that's all (not sure about age)

Now want to know whether you can ask whether donor has had children already as oviously most are people coming for treatment as egg share?

Hope that helps someone - night xxxxx


----------



## LellyLupin

Hi girls - my you have been busy on here.

I think we are all guilty of the stereotyping of the nationalities,  I too wouldn't expect a Spanish person to be blonde and fair, and would expect a Swedish person to be very fair with freckles and blue or green eyes.  On the flipside when I am abroad I often get mistaken for Spanish even though I am English so I guess we are all a mix of everything, my 2 sisters are both very fair blue eyed blondes.  I find the genetics thing fascinating especially regarding eye colours, with to regards  the 2 brown eyed people can't have a blue eyed child thing I think I heard that thats not true? (I hope not as my brown eyed friends have a blue eyed child)  Anyway I guess a DE child that asks why he/she has different colouring or features from their parents, could be told that he takes after a great uncle or aunt if you didn't want the child to know the truth.  Its a personal choice on what you decide to tell the child, I think I would have Roxys approach and tell the truth but I guess until you are in the situation you can't really say for sure. Fifi  I liked your DD story you can't have any secrets when you've got kids can you bless herxx 

Kirsty what are NKs?

Good luck Cornwall keep us updated  

Thanks for the kind words about the skids Roxy your comment made me fill up   

The Mike/Shelly situation is really freaking me out.  Mike came to work today with gold nail polish on his toes and tights and ladies pants on under his trousers (he showed one of my colleagues)  I think I could understand it better if he had gender identity issues but he is saying he doesn't want to be a woman, isn't gay,  and its not a sexual thing or a kink and he is a transvestite and not a transexual.  However the internet says transvestism is a fetish (which is sexual is it not) and if thats the case then I feel uncomfortable if hes coming to work and getting a thrill out of it by trying to shock us.  So I am a bit confused about him at the moment, I mean if my fetish was bondage I am sure I wouldn't be allowed to come to work with a gimp mask on  .  I am really not sure whats going on with him.  

Good news is that Mum is out of hospital -hurrah!!  And yes her telling me she loved me was lovely, I always knew it, but its the first time shes ever said it outright.  I have noticed that since Mum has been in and out of hospital our family has become a lot more loving towrds each other.  Maybe we are realising that family is what its all about, and by this I don't just mean having children, I mean all of our families which we forget we have when deperate for children.

Anyway having a very bad newsy day today and a not nice trip to the vets with my little dog, so am off to bed to forget about today and start a new one tomorrow.  xx

Much live to you all.


----------



## LellyLupin

Hopeful I meant to say I hope you dog is doing well now and is a lot less pain xxxx


----------



## LellyLupin

Wow Debs working in a baby clinic must be like water torture for you.  

Forgot to say I watched a documentry called 'The Babymakers' about a fertility clinic last night and it was from the staffs viewpoint, it was very interesting to see what goes on behind the scenes (I did wonder why it all costs so very much, as it doesn't look that complicated in the lab).  Anyway it was strange to watch the couples and doctors from a 'distance', seeing the hope and then the disappointment when 3 out of 4 of the couples got a BFN.  It was a bit surreal really I knew exactly how they all felt, and when someone was putting a brave face on and when someone was going to burst into tears, bizarre  

Right definitely off to bed as I am rambling - night all xx


----------



## deblovescats

thanks fifif and lesley - it is hard sometimes. Fortunately baby clinics aren't all i do - but i do have 2 a week - i work in health visiting, so i also do home visits, basically supporting mums with new babies, and also doing developmental reviews on pre school children. so it is hard being surrounded by children all day.
i really feel for you lesley wih your work colleague - he seems really confused! he needs to make up his mind exactly what he feels he is! it's hard trying to support someone who is confused!
Deb


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## Sushi Lover

Morning ladies,

*Fififi*....it is a double-edged sword.. good analogy. I'm hoping just doing something different will help mentally and physically as you've said. Good point re the costs in the UK as you can cut down on the drug costs. Still soooo much money though isn't it?!

*Lesley*.... NK Cells are Natural Killer Cells! Eeekkk.. sounds really awful doesn't it? Bit bad of me with the stereotyping thing, I feel a bit sheepish about that  With the eye colour thing, I did a bit of research... brown eyes are the dominant gene NOT blue eyes as i originally thought, so two brown-eyed people can have a blue-eyed child if they both had a parent with blue eyes (they carry the blue-eye recessive gene). Bit much for 8:30 in the morning! That's odd with the Mike thing.. I thought it was transgender/gender identity with him, transsexual is something totally different! Yes, I agree.. a sexual fetish! As for showing off his ladies pants! Ummmm... not on really. Do you think he go some kind of kick out of that? Fine if he wants to do that in his life outside work, but isn't it a bit strange to bring it into the office. Especially with all the toilet issues! Great to hear your Mum is out of hospital. Always a good thing when families pull together and are closer. Oh no, your poor dog. Will he/she be ok?

*Roxy*..... Yes, I suppose I was doing the stereotyping thing as Les mentioned. I shouldn't have done that really so I hope I didn't offend anyone. Maybe, just maybe the intralipid thing will do the trick.. fingers crossed.

*deblovescats*.... only 10 days to go! Goodness, as the others have said that's tough doing a baby clinic. I admire your strength as well!

*Cornwall*... I hope you are doing ok and can update us on your progress soon!

*AFM*...started my Norethisterone today to stop any cysts forming. Trying to get my head around the natural killer cells thing and hope the intralipids and steroids will help.

xxx


----------



## Coolish

*Kirsty *- re finding out about your raised NK cells and having wasted the last year. I felt the same in November when I tested positive for hidden c and ureaplasma. I felt like I'd wasted at least the last 2 cycles, not to mention the costs both mentall, physically and financially. At the same time I was also relieved that something 'wrong' had been found to give me a reason for so many failures via DE with perfect embryos and perfect lining etc. I was at a Spanish clinic, which doesn't believe in immunes or virus testing. In hindsight, if I'd known about having some of these tests done I would have before the 2 cycles last year. I'm waiting for my AF so I can book an appointment over at Serum for further investigation. So, I think I'm trying to say that it's deflated me, but looking forward, it's inspired me that something might get sorted for us.

Costs really seem to vary for clinics. I've seen some people posting about Greek clinics that do a 'deal' on the number of cycles. My clinic (from last year), did a package which we didn't take up, but did do a 'special offer' for the second fresh cycle within a year, so last year's fresh and frozen cycles worked out cheaper than we'd budgeted for. Drugs can be expensive here, but I've noticed on the Serum thread that it can be cheaper to buy in the country or via safe Internet pharmacies, so it's worth shopping around. My local Sainsburys pharmacy always offers me a stepped discount on the costs and lets me collect Nectar point as it's a private prescription 

*Debs* - don't forget, I'm goign to be pumping you for Serum information when you get back 

Les - I couldn't face watching the documentary. I think it would upset me. I didn't have a very good experience in my UK clinic and I think it might bring it back. It would be the brave faces that upset me the most I think. Actually, if I look back at it in a detatched way, then it was very like something from a Carry On film...

*Roxy* is right about the Spanish law. I can't remember off the top of my head, but our Spanish clinic did say they have the genetic profile too so you can always go back if there are any issues that need that sort of information. I can dig it out if anyone wants it.


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## Sushi Lover

*Cooljules*..... it's so horrible when you find something out that feels like your previous cycles have been a waste isn't it? You must know how I feel. Last year I had 3 IUIs, 1 cancelled IVF cycle and 2 IVFs with BFNs. I wonder if I'd had the higher dosage steroids and intralipids it would have made a difference? Hey ho, can't look backward though! I think I had 25mg of prednisolone anyway as a precautionary measure... so maybe that should have helped regardless. I'll never know so no point fretting over it. Are hidden c and ureaplasma also immune/antibody issues? I don't know much about them, sorry.

That's good with the Nectar points at Sainsburys! I asked about using my Advantage card in Boots and they don't give you points for prescriptions... shame because I could have bought loads of girlie Xmas presents with the points! I buy my drugs directly from Healthcare at Home. MUCH cheaper. I think I spent about £700 on my drugs (Fostimon & Menopur for 10 days for stims, Clexane, Cyclogest, Prednisolone) for last cycle compared with double that directly from the clinic. You scan and email your prescription and they email back a quote. Then post the original and pay over the phone with your debit or credit card...they deliver to work or home in plain cardboard box. Usually next day delivery. Works really well. *[email protected]* You'll probably be able to buy your drugs from Serum at a similar cost though.

Thanks for the info re the genetic profile at Spanish clinics, from Roxy too, good to know.

xx


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## MJ1

Hi Ladies,
Just a quickie as I am at work. Just had a price list sent to me from another FF lady for DE and the costs are astronomcal!! it says £550 to go on the wait lst!!   are they for real?
Kirsty, I have blue eyes and both my parents and brother have brown! so it can happen. DP and I both have blue eyes.
Hope all okay and sorry it is a quick post.
MJ1 xx


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## Sushi Lover

*MJ1*....£550 just to go on the waiting list?! What a joke. Is that at the Lister? I think usually with a DE egg cycle it's almost double isn't it? £5,000 or £6,000? Massive ouch. Thanks for clarification on the blue/brown eyes debate! Just goes to show you forget most of what you learn at school... especially where dominant and recessive genes are concerned. I probably sat there thinking "when would I ever need to use that info... might as well switch off" !! Funny how things work out 

xx


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## MJ1

Kirsty, ha ha re eyes. Not so funny re wait list fee, yes it is Lister.... absolute joke and makes me soooooo angry when they exploit the desperation we have for having a family  
xx


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## Coolish

Crikey - £500 to join the waiting list? Seriously? I know that being in the fertility business seem to be a licence to print money, but that's taking the pee. I've only had DE abroad, and apart from no waiting list, there is no fee to join one!


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## MJ1

Just did a quick calculation and it works out at about 9.K!  Standard DE is 5,700, then wait list fee £550, consulation, meds and scans £1,500, more bloods £350 (discounted.. ooh too kind!), drugs £550, initial consultation £250.... 
Will find out more tomorow.....


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## RachelMaria

Hi Ladies - I have heard of that before - I went to the Lister but tried with own eggs - I am sure at that time the cost was £500 just to join the list - not sure why putting your name on a dam list should cost £500 given the additional costs when looking at doner eggs anyway - I think some of that probably goes towards the reduced costs for the ladies who are giving their eggs under an egg sharing scheme, but the £500 to just join a list is pure profit (I mean how much admin does it take to run a list and check it against available doners!)


----------



## Coolish

MJ1 - it didn't cost me that much over in Alicante last year and that's with factoring in flights and hotels. If you do it yourself rather than going through a local clinic it can be much cheaper. You need one scan and that's around £150 and I just book one at a local clinic. Most bloods can be done at your GP and with DE you don't usually need loads of addtional bloods and scans (again it would depend on any issues you may have). Meds can vary depending on your treatment plan. Even with addtional Clexane and Trental last year mine were around £500. Smears are free at the docs. For my age in Spain you have to have a mammogram each year and that is a lot cheaper over in Spain. We didn't have to pay addtional consultation fees either - it's one price.

Saying that, the clinic I went to isn't even the cheapest. I've seen people quoting much cheaper prices for very well thought of clinics with good results in various countries. Shop around...


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## artist_mum

just a quickie

Kirsty - thx a lot for the cheap meds email address.  Really useful.

Lesley - yes i saw a bit of that tv prog on ivf.  came in the lounge and DP was avidly watching it..  Interesting that 1 in 4 got pg.  Kind of bears out the statistics.  It was weird to watch though.

mj1 - i think it can be cheaper abroad but you have to want to do that i guess.  And, to factor in, for some people travelling/hotels etc can be  stressful (i find it a bit stressy and would prefer to be in this country).  But that said, we went for abroad due to anonymity, quicker wait time and not so much of the sideways looks at being an older lady!  

Roxy xx


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## LellyLupin

Kirsty I looked up re NK cells on the internet, very interesting and a bit scary but isn't the human body an amazing thing.    I haven't been offered any testing for immunes etc from my clinic, but I am going to ask about it on the 18th when I go see my consultant, I am also going to ask about embryoglue and my egg quality.  Felt like slapping my PA today who was waffling on about how women over 40 shouldn't be allowed ivf as they are too old grrrr!!!!!   What annoyed me is she tried ivf herself for years and now shes had a hysterectomy shes suddenly changed her tune, I honestly don't know how I kept my temper.

The Mike thing I just don't know what to think, he contradicts himself all the time so I don't know if it is a kink or a serious gender identity issue.  I wish he would just come to work as a women and get it over with.  I would be very annoyed if it is a fetish and he is (excuse the pun) rubbing our faces in it, I would not be amused by that, however if it is a genuine gender issue I would support him wholeheartedly , even though I just can't see him ever pulling off looking female he is just too masculine. 

On the doggie front I noticed in a photograph that my 15 year old pup had one pupil bigger than the other,  so I took her to the vet who said yes she definitely has (good job I have Munchausens by proxy  ) .  However she couldn't tell me why,  so now I have to take her to see a doggy eye specialist and you guessed it £150 for the consultation etc etc etc.  Suddenly I get the feeling that everyone is trying to part me from my hard earned cash.  Its £150 to walk through the door so lord knows what the tests, medication etc will cost.  DP is not a happy bunny but at the end of the day my pup is like my child so I will do anything to get her better.  The frightening thing for me is the vet mentioned that she may have to have her eye taken out, and bearing in mind her age/cost I may decide to have her put down.  The trouble is shes the fittest most bouncy 15 year old you will ever see, she hikes for miles, has no fat on her and bounces around like Pepe le Peu, I couldn't even make myself feel better by saying well she was old and past it  as she acts like a 2 year old, not to mention how I just can't live without her,  shes my buddy and we've been through a lot together.  So next week my schedule is take Mum to the heart clinic on Monday, to the chest clinic on Tuesday, take the dog to the eye specialist on Wednesday and myself to the consultant on Friday - phew I will be so sick of medical people at the end of all this.  

Anyway enough of me offloading sorry for the me post again xx  



On the eyes front I did learn something there so your research wasn't wasted


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## deblovescats

hi ladies
i do think fertility treatment clinics rip us off ! 
that's one reason why i'm trying serum - even factoring in flights/hotels (you can get some cheaper deals) it can work out nearly half the price. though obviously it depends on if you can face the hassle of travelling. i've also heard good things .... 
i'm going to update you after my appt jules! 
just to say, i find this thread very supportive
i do sometimes find my job hard surrounded by babies .... 
had a good day today though - the team had a 'breakaway skills' technique - basically how to defend yourself in tricky situations (very useful for us with some of our clients!!!!) and found it very therapeutic being able to get physical!!! taking out my frustrations but in a controlled way!!! 
as for genetics - it's all down to recessive and dominant genes - basically blue is recessive (not dominant) and brown is dominant, but you have two genes for colour, so if you get two brown genes from each parent, you 're going to be brown eyed, if you get a brown from one and a blue from the other, you'll be brown eyed, but if a parent is brown eyed, but has a recessive blue gene you may inherit this and if you also get a recessive blue from the other this will make you blue eyed. I have blue-grey eyes, sister has hazel, mum has hazel eyes, father (deceased) had blue eyes, but both sets of grandparents had blue or blue-grey. very complicated business this gene stuff - so for consolation, at least it means that if you have DE it doesn't really matter about eye colour too much, as if they were OE the child could still have different coloured eyes anyway!
Deb


----------



## Sushi Lover

*MJ1*.....£9,000 is astronomical!! If you read this before your consultation can you ask them to explain the price structure re donor eggs? I mean, I understand with egg share that you are paying for the other girl's treatment cycle, but what about women that donate for altruistic reasons that aren't having fertility treatment? Where does the extra money go in that case? Best of luck with your appointment and I look forward to reading about it later.

*RachelMaria*.... Surely there can't be that much admin involved to justify taking £500 per person. Absolute joke and makes me angry that they are taking advantage of women struggling to conceive. We don't get a lot of breaks!

*Cooljules*... do you mind me asking about much the DE cycle cost at the Alicante clinic?

*Roxy*... no worries re the email address... hope it proves useful! The Baby Makers doc was on again last night so I've sky plused to watch later. DP interested as well.

*Lesley*.... That NK cells thing is scary. To think that my body's antibodies might be attaching our embryos as they form makes me shiver. I paid about £700 for my immune testing (more money). Comments like that from your PA make me so cross. Why is it ok for men to father children as they get into their 40's and 50's but not women?! She does more harm than good voicing opinions like that. Especially as she's tried IVF! Clearly she's bitter about it, because it didn't work. Goodness me, you have a busy schedule visiting various consultants, clinics and specialists! How do youfind the time to go to work?! Everything is so expensive even in the veterinary world. I agree though, your doggie is like a child to you so you have to give her the best treatment and chance. I really hope they don't suggest removing her eye... that sounds so sad. I can't imagine you would be able to make that decision to put her down as an alternative Les. That would just be too difficult.

*deblovescats*.... Wow, the defending yourself technique sound intriguing. Self-defence? Thanks for clearing up the blue/brown eyes debate once and for all. It's weird how we get onto all different subject on this thread!

xx


----------



## LellyLupin

Debs when I split up with my last partner I took up boxing and pretended my opponent was him and vented my anger that way (it was so freeing!  ). If I come away from my consulation next friday feeling down, I have promised my SS that I will start a training programme with him in the gym.  He thinks I am doing it to encourage him as he is training to get into the Navy,  but I will be secretly doing it for myself to keep myself sane  .  

My 6 month pregnant Bi Polar friend is coming to see me tomorrow night,  I really need to get my head around her pregnancy and deal with my emotions, I can't go on the way I am as I am just making myself ill with envy.  I so want to be happy for her and not jealous but I am fighting some inner demon that seems to be winning at the moment    How do you girls cope when you feel jealous, have you any coping mechanisms (that don't involve chocolate  )?

Kirsty I am using up my precious holidays to attend the various clinics, I will have none left when the Summer comes!  I know I will be devastated if Suzy has to have her eye out, everyone comments on how pretty she is but I will have to do it if its in her best interests.  I can't see me having her put down unless I had no other option, I will just have to borrow the money.  On a happier note Sonic is doing really well, if there was a Crufts for hedgehogs she would definitely win it   she looks like a picture of health.  

Debs that was very interesting about the eye colour genes,  at least I now know my brown eyed friends with the blue eyed baby picked the right baby up from the hospital    

Love to all xx


----------



## Moominmum

Hi All,

Hope you are looking forward to the weekend

*Lesley*, sorry never commented on the Mike/Shelly situation. It's prob just too weird for me I think. I mean when it seemed as if s/he was/is transsexual that is one thing - that cannot be easy. But if it is more of a fetish and to bring that into work... Well I don't know what to say. But I do know one thing Lesley, you surely have enough material from your life to write plenty of books 

Moving on and reading the discussion about DE - very interesting. I also believe that it will be much more common in the future. I had no idea a DE cycle was so expensive though! And £500 to be on a list. That is just wrong. But is there anything in this world that does not have a (hefty) price tag attached to it?

I have with interest also followed the "eye colour discussion". Although I am Scandi, I have lots of "other bloods" in me so I always look tanned and have black hair and dark brown eyes. DH used to be very blond (a "no hair" situation now ) and has bright blue eyes. DS had bright blue eyes to start with and they are now hazel brown and he was a blondie but now has brown hair. None of the colours like myself or DH really. What I want to say is that even with OE there is no guarantee.

AFM, I am wondering if I should take the DHEA I bought a couple of months ago. What is your view on this? At my follow-up consultation, I was told that DHEA would not help me as my issue was my cr*p eggs and it is more for quantity. But then I read in another thread how someone else had been adviced by a consultant at the same clinic to take DHEA to improve egg quality due to her age. WTF! I think that I still cannot get over the extorionate amount of money we threw at this "top-rated" clinic, just to have a BFN and bad follow-up and to be more confused than ever...

 to all.

Moominmum


----------



## LellyLupin

Hi Moomin to be honest the longer the Mike/Shelly thing goes on the less sympathetic I am becoming.  I want him to just get it over with, but he seems to relish the attention of us wondering if today will be the day Shelly appears.  If it is just a fetish then I think he has been very foolish bringing it into work and he has just comitted career suicide.  

I do have an interesting life as I set myself goals that I have to achieve, however there is one big void I just cannot fill with sport or anything else for that matter, I think my book will have a very sad ending in that respect.  I thought about DHEA too and read the very same post you are talking about.  I have mild PCOS so I am not sure if its a good idea or not, I am unsure of what its meant to do.  Can anyone shed any light?


----------



## RachelMaria

Hi Lesley - I did buy some DHEA - it is really meant for people over 50 and is being touted as a 'youth pill' (I think it is a hormone) - hoever on reading the back of the bottle it said not to take if you are trying to get pregnant - I only took three pills and although it might not be connected I have not ovulated for the last couple of months - am waiting to see what happens this month.  

Some people swear by it, but the best advice I have read (after taking it stupidly) is to get your DHEA levels checked to see if they are low before deciding to take it - I amnot sure whether that is a simple blood test (I presume so)?

Hope this helps


----------



## LellyLupin

Thanks for that Rachel, I think I had better ask the consultant about my levels before doing anything, especially as it says not to take it when trying to conceive.


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hi girls,

*Lesley*....It's such a shame when you have to use your holidays to attend the clinics. I mean, it is a medical process so should we not be allowed additional time?! Maybe in years to come everyone will be so open about it that it will be like saying you have a dental appointment! I feel for you with your bi-polar friend coming over. You'll have to use all your strength and acting skills to get through this one. As for coping mechanisms... how about focussing on things you've got that she hasn't? Sort of reverse jealously that she may feel towards you? I mean, apart from being pregnant is there anything about her you'd rather be or have? I'm sure it's just that one thing you are jealous of and everything else in your life is tons better than hers. With Suzy, yes, do what is in her best interests and try not to think about how she will look without the eye. It's all about saving her life.

*Les, Moomin,Rachel *... re DHEA: my consultant recommends 25mg 3 times a day in the sublingual form. He said it improves *quality* in ladies over 40. With the quantity we are all born with the amount of eggs we are ever going to have and can't make any more (how many times have we all heard that one!). So we can improve the quality of the eggs we have or increase the amount of follicles during treatment with more stimulation drugs. He based the stim drugs dosage on AMH levels. Low levels require more drugs. I expressed a concern about cysts as am prone to them. He said not to worry as there's no significant data to dictate that more cysts will form... and if any do appear he'll just aspirate them before the cycle. Didn't seem unduly worried. I also asked about testing my levels *BEFORE* taking it. He said this wasn't worthwhile as all women have low levels (men have higher levels of it, hence the possible masculine side effects) and it's difficult to detect a lower level than average because of the small changes involved. Anyone over 40 will almost certainly benefit from additional amounts of DHEA, without the need of testing. If you do have enough it cannot do any harm. I think you stop it if you become pregnant, but whilst TTC it is fine. My container info says not to use whilst nursing or pregnant, but nothing about whilst TTC.

Worth a try isn't it? I've had NO side effects... so don't be scared by the facial hair, acne, hair loss, decreased breast-size warnings! I believe that's just in much higher doses.

x


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## LellyLupin

Kirsty has anyone ever told you you have a wise soul.    Thinking about it it is the only thing I am jealous of, (apart from her hair, she does have truly fabulous hair), however I would never want to swop places with her, as I know she will never be truly happy with her lot.  Possessions wise she has exactly what I have only a cheaper version as she has copied over the years.  Would I want her step kids  - no they are brats, would I want her husband - no he is fat and bald and goes to the toilet 7 times a day    It is only the baby thing that hurts, and I think thats only because she copied me, she hadn't even thought about getting her hubbys reversal done until she found out thats what we were doing.  I guess this baby hurts because I know shes only pregnant because of me (not literally of course).  However I shall pull on my delighted face and get through it as usual. But thanks Kirsty you have put things into perspective for me xx

Re the DHEA I think I will try it if it doesn't do any harm, I'll just buy in a few BICC razor blade first.  My appointment is next Friday so I could ask about my egg quality too.n  I am armed with the lsit of questions kindly put on the forum earlier, he won't know whats hit him


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## Sushi Lover

*Les*.... Wise can also mean old right? ... then yes, I have been told that!  

There you go then... so she owns a lot of cheap tat, has horrible step kids, and a fat, bald, incontinent husband! Still feeling jealous?!

Put on your brave face and think of those things when you see her. As for the fab hair, how about saying you are going to get all your hair cut off in a boyish style and see if she copies?! I'm wicked aren't I ?!

I hope you have lots of time to ask all your questions next week.... the time just flies by. Best of luck.

xxx


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## MJ1

Afternoon Ladies,

How are you all?

Wanted to fill you in on our appointment yesterday at Lister. All went ok. We were given three options and we added another. Carry on naturally, another IVF (OE) cycle, or DEIVF.. we added IUI as it is something that we have not done before. 
So my chances with IUI (6%),IVF (OE) 19%, DEIVF (40-45%). 
We are still discussing and will at the weekend, but the initial thoughts are we do IUI (one go), and also go on the wait list at £550&#8230;.gulp&#8230; *Kirsty * I didn't see your post before I went but my consultant did say that the wait list cost covers the advertising that they do to get Donors&#8230; , not sure why the the costs are if the donors are not having IVF though. I did ring another couple of clinics and they also had a wait list fee so it isn't just the Lister that charge. 
So that is where we are&#8230;.. lots to think about and investigate.

*Cooljules, * thank for the info but abroad isn't an option for us, DP and I both work full time so it is bad enough having to get the time off to visit the UK clinic.

*Lesley, * NK cells are not widely know, especially in clinics outside London. Some consultants poo poo them and others take them very seriously. I had mine investigated after 2 failed cycles and they came back as raised but not killers. I only found out about them after researching on here and the internet. The clinics don't tell you or suggest much is what I have found with most clinics and I have been at three.. I did the full immunes, steroids, clexane etc etc for the last cycle but to no avail. How is you Mum, hope that your clinic visit with her goes okay? And doggie ??

*Deb*, good luck with your appointment. I have heard good things about Serum. 

*Moominmum* , I have heard that DHEA is really good for your eggs, Zita West raves about it. I have not personally tried it though so can't speak from experience..

Love to all
MJ1 xxx


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## LellyLupin

Hi Ladies well I got through my pregnant friends visit and here I am unable to sleep.    She was a lot bigger this time, and I had to do the feel the baby move thing which just about broke my heart on the inside.  However nothing showed on the outside, DP said not even a flicker crossed my face.  Strangely this time I didn't feel jealous of her, I think my anger is directed at myself and my frustration at the situation I find myself in, I didn't feel any ill will towards her at all.  In fact if anything I felt protective of her and her baby.  (However I am so up and down lately that that could change by tomorrow  )  I know I will support her and I know I will go visit the baby and be there for her, I just wish I could switch my own feelings off and just be a good friend to her.  I even offered to hold a baby shower ( I know I am my own worst enemy  )  I have come to the conclusion that she really is so wrapped up in herself that she is unable to sense anyone elses pain and shes never likely to change.  I know my chances of a baby of my own are virtually zero, so I would like to be able to be involved in helping her with hers, its just my hurt getting in the way, I would pay to be able to flick a switch and turn my feelings off I really would. 

MJ1  Mums appointment at the heart clinic is on Monday and Doggies appointment is on Wednesday so I will do an update when we have been.    Your chances with your OE IVF are quite high too are you considering that option?  I would really like to do DE but DP is dead set against it, I think its terrible to have to pay to go on the list, honestly don't they make enough money out of us!.  I wish you lots of luck and babydust and hope you get your little miracle.  I wondered why my clinic had not mentioned NK cells or embryo glue or anything else for that matter, I am taking a huge list of questions with me this time.  This forum is a mine of information isn't it, I have learnt such a lot from the girls on here.  

Anyway I must try and get to sleep so I am going to sign off and wish everyone a good night (or early morning)xx


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## artist_mum

hi

*lesley* You've done really well getting through the visit of your pregnant friend, that sounds like it is a trauma at a really deep level for you (like most of us on here). I'm not surprised you found sleep difficult. You have so much going on both emotionally and in your day to day life. I was really sorry to hear about your dog - and I hope that gets resolved so you two can enjoy the remaining time together. I am so close with my dog, I think she is actually like some kind of helper dog that was sent to me (!) so I do understand. Best of luck with the vet visit next week. And the stuff going on with your mum sounds really deep as well - perhaps there is actually a lot of change going on in your life - right down under the surface. And change is good. It can lead to new things even though it feels hard at the time. It does sound like your friend is one of those people who just doesn't naturally do 'empathy'. My sister can be like that and it takes a lot of strength not to take it personally. It's just the way these people are wired I reckon. I hope you have a good relaxing weekend and can get your sleep back on track, it seems you have a busy week next week  PS what kind of dog is Suzy?

*mj1* thanks for the info about your Lister consultation, that was really interesting. I completely understand about getting time off/abroad. It is also worth thinking about hotel costs/eating out etc when you do go abroad as that adds up too. So I think doing the right thing for you is the best and don't worry too much about the money (easy to say I know). If you do the right thing for you and get pregnant then the money will mean nothing.. 

*debs* Have heard really good things about penny at serum so good luck with that. When are you going? I noticed that you may go along to this weekend meeting FF are organising. I wonder if anyone else is planning to?

*kirsty* You old soul! Yes, I too have thought that you do give us all some very wise words on here. It's lovely just knowing you are on the thread with us. A boyish hair cut for the pregnant friend, I like it .

*moominum, rachelmaria, cooljules, hopeful* and to any one else reading, Happy Weekend!

AFM Waiting for AF next week, start the pill, then decapeptyl injection and patches. Then ARGC blood test for immunes and start on meds they advise. Phew.. it's a lot of drugs for someone who never even took a headache pill before this! Waiting to find out FET date in late Feb/early March. Started acupuncture this week which seemed good - i still have issues with my immune system a bit so perhaps it will help me generally as Kirsty reckoned with hers. We shall see!

                           

Roxy xx


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## fififi

lesley -    
When I read your post my insides twisted - I so feel for you. I'm in the unbelievably lucky position of having had success once so can only start  to imagine how difficult things with your friend are for you. There is no way to stop the internal pain but I do think you will gain something long term by sticking by your friend. It is so unfair - especially since right now you're still considering someone else's issues & putting them before your own. For me it's not quite the same but - still a lot of pain - when I meet up with friends who's babies were born when mine were supposed to have been if only I'd got a BFP. I couldn't face them for first month but now I try to support them and have even managed to babysit (they were lucky I wasn't too hormonal that night else may well have come back to discover me & baby gone!!!). I can't change what has happened in my life but I can make the best of what I have and being a friend others can rely on is part of who I am - even if it's a painful thing to do. If I cut myself off from everyone with babies I'd still feel the sadness & emptiness cos no matter what I do the inability to conceive is always lurking somewhere in my thoughts.
In short - what I'm trying to say is I think you're doing the right thing sticking by your friend cos your pain is going to be there whether you do or not. (Although obviously I'm hoping that very soon now you'll surprise us all with a BFP of your own     )
Will be thinking of you lots next week & hope Suzy & your Mum both get better quickly  


A quick hi to everyone else - will try and post properly tonight or tomorrow. Hope you all have good weekend & don't get too cold


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## MJ1

Hi Ladies,

*Lesley,* you have a busy week ahead with you Mum and doggie, best of luck. We have thought about doing OE again but I am not sure I can go through it if it fails. If I hadn't got to day five with three pretty good embryos then I would have always wondered what if, but we did get there last time and still no pg.

So if DE gives us the better chance and maybe some to freeze if we go the independent route then that might give us that success. I do so want my own child but I am not getting any younger. 
*
Roxy*, yes thanks for the advice and we did think about other costs too. Let's hope that your FET date soon 

AFM  has just arrived.... just another reminder, have had pains all week so no surprise...
Have a good weekend ladies
MJ1 xxxx


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## MJ1

p.s anyone heard of the Alrtui website for DE? Lister have their own egg share programme, but also mentioned Altrui that are an independent...


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## LellyLupin

Hi girls, boy I am tired    3am I finally managed to sleep..  Roxy I have put a picture of Suzy on my profile so you can see her, shes a Jack Russell, what have you got, how old is your dog?  It might sound crazy but I know her so well I almost know what shes thinking, we have the best connection.  Mum was a lot happier and healthier today almost back to normal so I am relieved about that.  I know what you mean about change and a lot going on, I don't think I like things happening that I can't control, and Mums illness, Suzy's eyes and ivf make me feel so helpless, I think thats why I am struggling a bit at the moment.  You are a wise soul too like Kirsty & Fifi      I hope you get your baby Roxy you would make a fabulous mother xx 

Feefs I think you are right, I was thinking of cutting myself off from my friend, but last night I realised that I would only be hurting myself, because like you say, whether I see her or not the pain is still there, and to be honest I would miss her whether shes selfish or not. My friend is not aware of my feelings, so its unfair of me to be angry with her for trying to including me in her pregnancy and wanting me to feel the baby move etc,  I had a bit of a revelation when she was here in how unreasonable and childish I was being, I need to stop blaming her for how her pregnancy is making me feel.  Truthfully feeling the baby move was really quite a wonderful moment and just chatting to her about what this little boy would be made me feel very included, I did feel a bit ashamed of myself    You sound like a lovely person Fifi and a friend that anyone would be lucky to have xx

MJ what did your consultant say when you didn't conceive with your OE?  You are still only in your early 40s aren't you?  Just curious as you got 3 good embryos.  I have been thinking of DE today and thinking does it really matter what genes the baby has if DE gives you the chance of fulfilling your dreams and the baby gets a doting mother.  I am really coming around to the idea of DE, I am glad your DH is happy to go down that route too as I don't think my DP wants to.

Much love to you all and thanks for the support you have given my over the last few weeks I really appreciate it xxx


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## LellyLupin

Ok I need an opinion again ladies.  Would you think it odd if an exboyfriend of yours was still keeping in touch with your family 11 years after you split up, even though he is now married with two kids?


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## Moominmum

Lesleylupin said:


> Ok I need an opinion again ladies. Would you think it odd if an exboyfriend of yours was still keeping in touch with your family 11 years after you split up, even though he is now married with two kids?


*Lesley*, I have to say that it depends on the circumstances. I am still in touch, although not on a regular basis, with my first serious bf's mum (he really broke my heart when I was 20 after 2 years together). In fact I was supposed to have met up with her when she was visiting London last year and she emailed me yesterday. But then I am still in touch with her son as well. As he was my "first love" I got very close to his family.

I have quite a few friends who are more in touch with the ex's family than with the ex...


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## LellyLupin

Moo he was the one that cheated after 4 years together, and we have no direct contact.  He stayed in touch with my sister up until 7 years after we split and then sent her a text to say he was getting married and moving on in 2009.  I thought all contact had stopped and then Mum let slip today that he has been visiting my sister and her husband all this time.  I must say I am pretty p*ssed off about it, what is my DP supposed to think about that


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## Moominmum

Okay that's weird. But see it as him realising how much he effed up and now stays in touch with your family to still have a link to you. Only thing, for him, is that it is your DP who has "access" to the real deal ie you! What does your sister have to say about it?


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## LellyLupin

At the beginning she said she didn't know what to say when he came to the door, so she just let him come in.  Then later on she said she felt sorry for him, why I don't know, he should have thought about the consequences when he was cheating.  If this situation was reversed there would be no way I would let him come in if he had hurt my sister.  She told me about the text in 2009 but nothing since then, I thought it had all stopped and he had moved on.  I only found out because out on the horse I bumped into his wife and kids in the woods, so I just casually mentioned it to Mum today, and in front of DP she said he was still visiting my sister and had never stopped.  I wouldn't care but they weren't close in the 4 years we were together.  I am just curious as to why after all this time hes still doing it, I am sure his wife knows nothing about it and I feel its disrespectful to DP and his wife and to me too as he knows I wouldn't be happy about it.


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## Moominmum

Considering the way the relationship ended, being respectful is not his strongest point. But I have to say, as you also point out, that I do find your sister's reaction/behaviour weird and I would expect much more from a sibling. Surely saying No to your ex must be a more natural reaction than feeling sorry for him?


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## LellyLupin

You would think so wouldn't you, thats my family I'm afraid, actually thats not fair I should say thats my sister for you, the rest of the family wouldn't do it.  I don't know whether I should confront my ex and ask him what hes playing at or not.  When we split he called me for about a year afterwards until I asked him to stop all contact, I felt like I couldn't move on while he was still in the background.  When I met DP my ex got very very upset about it and kept sending me emails at work asking me to take him back.  I told him I couldn't and asked him to leave me alone which technically he has done, I thought that when he got married he had finally moved on fully.  I think after 11 years I am entitled to a bit of peace. I feel sorry for DP, I know he is very angry about it and feels threatened by it as he knows I loved my ex very much and it took me a long time to get over him.


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## Moominmum

Hmm hard one, if I were you I don't think I would give him the pleasure of a reaction from me cause that is what he wants. But I would speak to my/your sister about it. And I know it is not your whole family, I remember that you have a lovely bro for example


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## artist_mum

hi lesley

just seen your dilemma.  

firstly Thanks for putting the sophie pic up.. aah.. she is lovely.  Mine is 5 year old Golden Retriever. 

Regarding the ex and the contact with your sister.  I understand how hard that is for you (and your DP).  It sounds like he messed up big time with something special that he had with you, but quite right you moved on.  If someone cheats.. well what can you do but leave them.  And then whilst you pick up the pieces and get on with your life your sister keeps in touch.  I would not like that at all - and would feel that your sister is very disloyal, as she must have known the depth of your feelings at the time.  But you know a man like that is not able to do the right thing - clearly at the time (by cheating) and afterwards (by withdrawing after his bad behaviour and allowing you to move on).  So moominmum is right, you cannot expect any better from him than being disloyal to his wife, and interfering with you and DP in your life today.  It's a real shame you cannot rely on your sister to do the right thing, and I guess it is hurtful that she has been talking all along with him.  As moominmum says it is a hard one.  But on balance I would agree - don't react to him directly (he craves contact with you but that is not fair as he is the one who wrecked that chance).  Try to explain to your sister that you just don't want all this dug up again, and appeal to her better nature to help you out with this situation by not having contact with him (she doesn't have to say why, just make an excuse not to see him when he contacts her).  Well that's what I think but I know it isn't easy when feelings and history are concerned.

You have so much going on at the moment, life does that sometimes - everything at once  .  I can't help but feel all these things will get resolved and you will have a nice clean canvas to start afresh with your dreams at the forefront - instead of other people making demands on you and your caring nature.

Good luck    Roxy xx


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## MJ1

Hi Lesley, 

cute piccy, weird ex   
re consultant and my own eggs.... well he didn't say, the reason for lack of implantation is the million dollar question that they can't answer. I will be 43 in August and DP is 48 in March. I am getting my head around DE the more that I look into it.. two years ago I was against the idea but I am now 2 years older and wiser.


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## cornwall

Hi everyone,

Haven't had a chance to catch up with all the chat. Got back from Cyprus last night with three 3 day embies on board - I am PUPO  
Clinic were lovely and really looked after both me and DH. Embies are two Grade 4 and one Grade 3, my lining was 10.4mm. So, now the two week wait starts  .


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## Moominmum

*Cornwall*: how exciting - yay!


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## MJ1

Cornwall what a lining!! nice for snuggling into, good luck


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## fififi

Cornwall - sounds very promising - CONGRATS on being PUPO - will be crossing fingers you'll be announcing good news and leaving us BFNers very soon      

MJ1 - two things I discovered last week that may be of interest to you:
1. re DE in UK - a lady at my clinic was told the age and "previous child history" of the potential donor. She turned one donor down as didn't already have a child but got matched pretty quickly again later on

2. I'm in same OE/DE dilemma. My consultant rates us as having a good 15% chance with OE (this raised on last 2 cycles once we got to blasts  and were told 30% possibility following this point). Even if we overcome these odds though he feels at 42 I face a 50% chance of MC. If we opt for DE he quoted us 50% chance of success and only 15% of MC. Despite knowing all these potential stats it's still hard to know what to do as there IS a reasonable chance of OE success however to my mind now I think what I want is a baby & since the last three IVF cycles haven't given us that perhaps now money and time is so short we'd be better having a better ticket in the baby lottery!
I'm quite a believer in "fate/destiny" and when struggling to comprehend why life would want me to take DE route I worked out that by using a donor I would be paying for treatment for someone who without that money wouldn't have treatment. Thus my cycle would cause 2 people to get joy!!!

Another thing that may be of interest to MJ1 & anyone else with implantation/egg dilemmas. When I got my NK biopsy results back last week I also got a 20 min phone conversation with specialist in implantation issues (Prof Quenby). Having tested me (no evidence of raised NK cell activity) & examined my womb lining she said it was all "very normal" and looked exactly how lining should after ovulation. From this assessment she didn't feel that implantation was my problem and that the most likely cause was egg quality. I asked her if there was likely to be anything else that would cause implantation failure and she said it was most unlikely. Good news - but frustrating as yet again there's nothing to "cure".
What I am now doing, on her recommendation, is taking progesterone pessaries for the last week of my cycle as I do seem to get spotting for 3/4 days before AF and this may be due to my progesterone levels falling off too quickly. This drop "may" be hindering implantation as womb lining being shed too soon.

lesley - hope you slept better last night. Agree with Roxy re your ex - hopefully you can persaude your sister to avoid him. Or at least be sure not to tell him about what you're up to now in life. (PS. Be a bit flattered though too cos you were obviously a great girlfriend and he's now come to senses & realised what he's missing out on!!!)


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## MJ1

Hi Fififi,

Thanks for your post re DE and other info. I think we are both in exactly the same boat and your thoughts mirror mine. 
Do you take the risk of another OE failiure or go for DE. Like I said back to Lelsey, I just don't know how I would cope with a 5th failed cycle. Like you say do we up our odds with the DE route. I also am weighing up egg share and altruistic. I know this may sound selfish but I want to give myself the best chance so paying that bit extra to have the whole batch rather than share would give us a better option to have some to freeze and back-up just incase. Also as I have said previously DP was a donor a few years before he met me and helped 8 families have children...,so another reason why it should be our turn one day.

Re the implantation discussion that you had with your consultant is very interesting. A friend of mine had 3 misscarriages and she was also given progesterone and it worked she gave birth to her second little girl 2 yrs ago. I do sometimes spot a few days before my AF, this month for example I spotted in Monday/Tues day and AF arrived yesterday..... so yes I think that you should give it a go, just remember that it will delay you AF too. 
I have some Cyclogest left from my last cycle and did suggest this to my consultant but he said that there wasn't much point??. Maybe I might try it though, you never know. I also went to my GP a few weeks ago as you can get you progesterone levels tested, but mine are fine as she had the results from my first inital investigations before my first cycle in 2010. So if your levels are okay then the spotting won't be a progesterone problem.

Thanks
MJ1 xxx


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## fififi

Mj1 according to implantation specialist progesterone levels can drop after day 21 leading to spotting. Normal testing is only done on day 21 so may not show this early drop off. The protocol she suggests is start cyclogest 7 days after ovulation for 7 days then do pg test - if positive continue otherwise stop. To try this for 3 months.
I'm having laparoscopy in Feb with my normal clinic consultant - he will check for pulps too as they could be cause of early spotting.
The DE question is tricky - not sure there's right answer - must be even tougher for you with DPs history. Perhaps if we both try the progesterone plan we'll get natural BFP & it'll all be irrelevant!!!


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## cornwall

The progesterone issue is interesting. On my first cycle, I used two cyclogest a day. This time, after discussion with the doctor, this was increased to three per day. I also had a blood test to check my progesterone levels and they were fine. Perhaps, as we get older, the levels drop off naturally at the time when we would be expecting implantation so we need a bit of a boost to encourage implantation.


----------



## MJ1

Agreed ladies!
Yes I was told that the pregesterone test should be done 7 days after ovulation not necessarily day 21 as we don't all ovulate on day 14. 
Fififi, maybe we should give it a go, you never know and wouldn't it be great if we could look back on this post and laugh with our BFP's!!!!!
xx


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## fififi

I've had progesterone levels tested as ok 7 days after ovulation - my day 21 is 19 - but even so that's not to say levels don't drop after that.
I'm going to give it a go as not got anything to lose by doing so - just need to persuade GP to honour prescription request as only about 10 cyclone left.
I'll raise a cup of decaf tea to our BFP success!


----------



## LellyLupin

Thanks girls   now I have calmed down I have decided to just let it go, there is little point to talking to my sister, shes a 'I'll do what I want' sort of person.  The first time I found out he was going round she said 'well hes never done anything to me', she has no family loyalty or better nature.  I think you are all right that he is looking for contact, and to be honest I think talking to him would just dredge up my buried feelings too.  He'd only been cheating on me for a week when I found out, everything happened so fast I don't think either of us got closure.  I was relieved when he got married for my sake as well as his.      Yes I do have a lovely brother Moo   I have another sister too who is just as lovely,  and then I have the one above who I think resented me from the day I was born  

I used to have a Golden Retriever Rox, they are fantastic dogs, there are two who live in my street and I just have to have a fuss of them when I take Sue out on the field.  We had ours for 13 years, and this is how sad I am   I still have a lock of his fur in a little box, I've had it for 27 years    I can't bear to throw it out!  Thanks for your kind words too Roxy,  I feel that things are getting better as Mum is feeling ok, and now I have stopped blaming my friend for being pregnant its actually been a bit of a relief and an acceptance for me  xxx.  

MJ yes the million dollar question re implantation.  I used to think I would never consider DE but as you say you get older and wiser,  and suddenly the things you used to think don't matter anymore,  and just having a baby to love becomes more important than genes.  Not knowing very much about DE do you only get one if its donated for altruistic reasons, but you get more if you egg share?  

Cornwall congratulations on being PUPO sweetie    you could be the first one on this thread to give the rest of us hope     

Wow Feefs those odds are interesting, I must admit reading the successful threads for over 40 there does seem to be a fair few who lost their babies later on, 50% seems very high.  I am having the OE/DE dilemma too, I haven't discussed it with DP, in the beginning I said I definitely wouldn't do it but now I think I would, DP won't agree to it I am sure and will be shocked that I have changed my opinion.  I think when you have a couple of BFNs it becomes more attractive.  15% with OE is very good and did I read it right that he upped it to 30% after your second try? That is high only 10% less than someone much younger.  Hmmmm it is a difficult decision isn't it, I love your attitude about fate though, and how lovely to help someone else to become a mother, I need some of your positive thinking powers !!

My bi-polar friends husband was trying to convince us that she got pregnant naturally, I don't believe him as they got the same antibodies result as ours and we were told no chance.  I am going to ask my consultant on Friday if its possible.  

On a lovely subject my God daughter visited us today (shes 2 1/2) and as she was leaving she gave me a kiss and said 'love you', aw I was so touched by it.  I haven't seen her for a few weeks and was expecting her to be shy,  but she came in and gave me a big smile and pointed to her new shoes, she was trying to show me that they light up when she walks.    I love her so much,  she looks a bit spanishy like me so when we are out people assume shes mine,  so I have little daydreams (torture myself)  about having one of my own  

Anyway must close now as DP is saying hes a computer widower  

Will update you on Mums appointment tomorrow night, I am taking her to the heart clinic for a check up tomorrow, its just a precaution so I am not worried that they will find anything wrong.

Much love to you all


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## RachelMaria

Hi Ladies - hope everyone is OK today?

Lesley - I think your feelings towards your pregnant friend are totally natural - I get twinges whenever I see anyone pregnant - I am happy for them and peed off at the same time - it must be particularly hard when it is close friend but it sounds like you handled it really well.  I noticed loads of baby stuff - pregnancy and birth accouncements or just prefnant people on TV programmes over Christmas - I know we are probably more sensitive to it BUT IT WAS EVERYWHERE! - even my mum noticed it!

Cornwall - congratulations honey - am keeping everything crossed for you.

Sorry to anyone I have missed - am meant to be working so haven't had time to read everything properly.

We the good news for me is that I finally ovulated (well at least had the LH surge) this morning - what a dam relief - don't think I have ever been so pleased to see a smiley face on a plastic stick - did a dance of joy round the bedroom at 6.30am this morning so DP wasn't best pleased - then jumped him - poor sod!  have told him that is just a warm up so not sure he will come home after work today!!!!


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## LellyLupin

Rachwl I think you better get your DP some multivits with iron    Hope it works and then you can watch the baby adverts with happiness instead of pangs of envy


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## fififi

Rachel - go girl go!!!!    
Pleased your body back to normal - my positive ovulation test 10 days ago also resulted in lots of joy as been absent since BFN in Oct.

Lesley - my 30% chance is what they gave me at point of ET, having 2 grade B blasts. Entering a new cycle it's back to 15% - though that's still loads better than the 5% we were told 18 months ago before the first cycle just going on AMH etc.
-Thinking of you & hoping your Mum's appointment leaves you all feeling positive.
- Glad being with your God-daughter was a fun day yesterday, sounds like you need lots of positive things to start lifting you. (Though having hunky, generous brother is a good place to start!!!  )

Hugs to all    

PS. My plans for natural BFP hindered by fact my GP won't prescribe progesterone as sees it as being fertility treatment related - grrrrr. Now going to hunt around and see if can find a private prescription left over from any of my IVF cycles


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## artist_mum

hi, just a quickie to say hi and best wishes to Cornwall on your 2ww. Thinking of you. Really hope it works out. Stay strong!   

also hi Lesley, sounds like you have got a good positive attitude to all that stuff with the ex! If it was my sister, it would be the same - no point broaching it. Onwards and forwards. And yeah, retrievers are sweet (she had 8 pups last year - they were _really_ sweet ). Fingers crossed for Suzy's appt. And hope your mum's went well today.

Rachel - our thoughts remain with your DP  Altho I bet he's not complaining 

fifi - hope you manage to get your progesterone - it seems easier to get 'recreational drugs' than fertility drugs in this country!

Gotta dash, also should be working! hi to everyone else

Roxy xx


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## Moominmum

Hi All,

Hope you are doing well. Just a quick one.

*Lesley*: I hope this week is going well with you and all your appointments left right and centre.
*Cornwall*: I hope that you are enjoying being PUPO - some extra baby dust for you 

On another note, and why I wanted to write this post, I just read a thread on a Scandi forum (still trying to keep up with life at "home") where it started off with a 45 year old single woman asking if anyone her age had had any success with IVF using OE. Anyway, the thread ended about a year later with her having her baby using OE and donor sperm. 

Baby dust to all and wishes for a great 2013! 

Moominmum


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## LellyLupin

Ooo I like that story Moomin  

So far Mum is a lot better and has been diagnosed with Asthma, tomorrow is Suzys day at the doggie doctors, Friday is my consultant day  (the one I am dreading) I will keep you posted on all of them.

Roxy how did you manage not to keep the 8 pups, I wouldn't have wanted to let them go  

Cornwall are you managing to stay sane?  5 days in you will be wanting to test  

Rachel is your DP still standing  

Fifi if I get bad news on Friday I will send you my stock of Progesterone.


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## fififi

lesley - get your POSITIVE head on           - you always got an amazing amount of eggs and last cycle had 3 embies transferred so remember you have all that's needed to get the dream. What you need now is for the right egg to be collected    

- glad your mum is okay and they are now able to treat her for the right condition. Hope Suzy's appointment goes okay tomorrow  

Roxy - hope work not too busy this week

Cornwall - keep smiling & enjoy being PUPO

Moo - hiya, glad you discovered that positive story. Now we just need a few of us to get those natural BFPs and boost us all a little more

Hi to everyone else   

PS. Have found the prescription I was given for cyclogest were I to get pg from last cycle so may well use that if no joy from elsewhere. The specialist I saw is going to contact my GP directly and put forward my case as a NHS criteria patient so hoping that might do the trick but in this crazy world of PCTs who spend thousands on supporting ladies with 101 babies yet won't spend £50 on stopping me miscarrying one who knows!!!


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## LellyLupin

Well I am having a good year so far    Suzys eye is a result of old age, shes not blind, shes not in pain, she hasn't got cancer, had a stroke, or has to have her eye taken out    Her pupils are just responding slower as shes an oldie, and the black circle I could see in her eye is an iris cyst that won't cause her a problem.  So my local vet who told me she probably had Glaucoma and would need her eye taken out doesn't know what shes talking about.  £136 lighter but needless to say I am a very happy bunny    

Hopefully as I have had nothing but good news so far this year my appointment on Friday will be positive too!  

Feefs what do you mean by an NHS Criteris patient, just curious as the NHS wouldn't entertain helping me with anything.

Hope everyone else is Ok xxx


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## MJ1

Great news Lesley  

AFM, not much to report, still weighing up then idea of DE and going for an agency rather than egg share at a clinic. 
Also tried to find out my blood group (for DE reasons) but my GP doesn't know so have to go for a private test and pay..... is nothing for free esp after 40... the docs receptionist told me when I called up to find out that if I had had a baby they would be able to tell me... hmmmmmmmmmmm funny that. So will be parting with £15 on Friday for a blood group test.. sheesh


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## LellyLupin

MJ EVERYTHING seems to be free if you can't be bothered to work for a living.


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## cornwall

Hi,

Great news about your dog, Lesley  

I am managing to stay sane although haven't exactly had the relaxing week as advised by the clinic. Car broke down on Monday so now travelling to work by bus. I work all over the place so not a straightforward journey but various buses, trains, lifts from people. Yesterday, I had a horrendous asthma attack as I walked home in the evening. Only the second time I've had such a bad attack - is it a symptom? 
Fortunately, I have a couple of quieter days ahead but I'm so tired I've been falling asleep during the daytime and I'm absolutely starving all of the time. (It MUST be the progesterone).
Last cycle, I had cramps from day one of the transfer. This time ................... nothing, just an occasional twinge.
Only a week to go


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## deblovescats

hi lesley - so glad about the news with your lovely dog! seems like some of medical profession either for animals or humans are after our money!
i get fed up - you see people who've never worked and paid taxes can get everything free - those of us who've worked and paid our taxes (seems like for everyone else!) keep paying! after all, we've never claimed maternity pay! seems like despite paying all our lives, when we're over 40, we can't get tx on NHS!
on a more positive note, i'm heading off to athens on friday for my appt on sat at serum, so i've looking forwards.
Deb


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## LellyLupin

Cornwall maybe the tiredness is a sign, I am sure I have read that it is    My mum has just been diagnosed with Asthma, did you have your inhaler with you?  It must be very frightening for you, I hope it doesn't happen again, is it stress that brings it on.  Fingers crossed that you get a BFP soon xx

Debs  I know,  I drives me mad when I go to the chemist for my migraine prescription (I have to take a pill every night) and I am the only one in there who has to pay.   The place is always full of the great unwashed with 6 kids apiece getting bags of things free.  I  don't think I've ever had anything free from the NHS and I've worked for 26 years! I also think the rule about no help if your partner has had a vascetomy should be changed too, why do I get penalised for DPs past,  I haven't got any kids or had a sterilisation!  Let us know how you get on Debs I so want to go to Serum but DP won't let me.  Hope it goes well for you xx


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## Sushi Lover

Hi girls,

Sorry I've been a stranger. So much to catch up on!

*MJ1*...Glad your appt went well at the Lister hun. Wow, those percentage chances really jump up with DE eh? Makes you think... How long on average do people stay on the waiting list until a donor is found? Is Altrui the clinic in Greece with Penny that a lot of people rave about?

*Lesley*....so glad Suzy is ok! What great news. 2013 may just be your lucky year then?! Well done getting through your bi-polar friend's visit and I'm so pleased you didn't feel jealous. A baby shower?! I am laughing at that. You are such a kind person and really do put others first... are you sure you can handle it? Sounds awful to me! I'd be annoyed if my ex partner kept in contact with my sister as well hun. Did you speak to her about it or decide to totally let it go? Ahh, your Goddaughter sounds adorable! Glad your Mum is ok and hopefully the asthma is manageable? Good luck for your appt tomorrow.

*Roxy*.... AF started yet? Started all your drugs now? You'll be rattling lovie!! I think most of the ladies on here are wise souls... you included hun. I don't know what I do without this support network.. It's a lifesaver.

*Cornwall*... woohoo! Great news. Congrats on PUPO. Lovely thick lining. You poor thing with the asthma attack, that's all you need. I haven't heard of it being a symptom though.. sorry!!  Sounds a right pain with the buses/trains etc... you can't borrow a car from someone can you? Tiredness and hunger ARE symptoms, although, as always with these damn cycles the drugs can also mirror symptoms... so unfair! I hope your next week goes quickly.

*deblovescats*...Best of luck for your trip tomorrow and appt on Sat.. you must be soooo excited!

*Fififi*... a 50% chance with DE is really high. Are you seriously considering this route? Did you order your DHEA in the end? With the progesterone.. you can order the cream from the Internet. I read somewhere you should put 2 cms on the inside of your lower arm (thin skin) after ovulation through to your next AF and it extends the lutuel phase.

*RachelMaria*.... yes, I agree.. when you want to be pregnant so badly ALL you see is pregnant ladies or newborns... Not fair is it?! Great about ovulating! You made me laugh about jumping your DP at 6:30am! I bet he didn't know what had hit him. I've got my DP on the WellMan supplements as Les said.

*Moomin*.... that's great to hear about the lady having a baby at 45 using her own eggs... hope for us all. Thanks for the baby dust! I hope you are ok?

xxx


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## MJ1

Hi Ladies,

*Kirsty*, Altrui is an external agency that find donors, they are based in the UK and they charge £1500, wait list is normally short. You are thinking about Peny at Serum clinic in Cyprus I think, where Deb is going.

*Cornwall *   hope that you are feeling better soon 

*Lesley*, you are so right re paying for everything. I have been working since I was 15 years old, left school after exams as I was the youngest in my year!

*Deb*, good luck with your appointment this weekend, get away from all this snow.

Have a good weekend everyone.
MJ1 xxxx


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## Sushi Lover

Hi MJ...  oh right, ok.  Thanks for the info.  Interesting.  Will google it!

K xx


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## LellyLupin

Kirsty  babyshower   I don't know what possessed me  .  I am not speaking to my sister at the moment, but I already know she will do what she wants regardless of my feelings.  I was very miffed that my Mum told me about it in front of DP.  I have come to the conclusion that my ex cannot be happy if he feels the need to hang on to his old life, so I am just letting it go.  I just found out too that he now works on the same site as I do, I hope I do not bump into him.  

Things are going very well with Mam and Suzy   but I am just dreading my appointment with my Consultant tomorrow, I know I am going to get the 'old eggs' speech and I just don't want to hear it    I am armed with your list, printed off and highlighted with questions I want answers to!  I know he will say I need DE and I know what DP is going to say, I can't wait for it to be over. 

Take care on the roads everyone, its gonna be like Narnia this weekend!


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## fififi

Good luck tomorrow Lesley - will be thinking of you     (Hoping your consultant discusses the positives from your cycle too cos from what I remember so many steps of your TX went really well.)

kirsty - hope your cycle is going well   

cornwall - asthma attack sounds horrible  , am crossing all non-frozen bits for you and hoping your tiredness & hunger are good signs    
- think not having a car in this weather is probably a blessing ... though public transport never good, especially in snow!!!

deb - enjoy warmer weather & hope your appointment on Sat goes well   

mj1 - all bit crazy there being no record of what blood group you are. Can't believe you've got to pay £15 for this. I'm going to try & find out mine but no idea if it's on my records either. Plus I need to know what CMV I am - not a clue what that is?!!! (Bet that costs too!!!!)
Not looked into Altrui myself but pretty sure there was a documentary about it a few years ago - try Google?

I spoke with my clinic about DE on Tues and they have said as long as my tests been done within 12 months then all I need is to pay £450 to go on list. They advised having the counselling appointment first (before paying any money) so me & DH can be sure that DE is what we want to do. At the counselling appointment we can find out more about the process & "issues" around whether we'd want to tell child or not. Seemed pretty sensible to me so now just need to find a time where me & DP can get morning off work to go. (Debating doing it on the morning before my op in February - but unsure if that's too much to take on emotionally before being in theatre for 1--2 hours when have laproscopy & hysteroscopy)
My clinic matches on physical characteristics (height, weight, BMI, hair colour, eye colour, complexion, ethnic group, blood group & CMV) and give us that information. They also share their age and key genetic history eg. whether have had children or not. If not happy with the donor can say so without being penalised and being moved back down waiting list. Wait is generally 3-6 months.

Still not heard back from GP about cyclogest - his main issue was regarding the need for it were I to get pg which I find really sad since if that drug could help me keep a baby why would it matter that a private consultant recommended this action rather than an NHS one? Should I get to that fab place I think I will just go and sit in surgery & refuse to leave until they give me the prescription!!!

Hope everyone manages okay with snow and has good weekend, when we finally get there


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## Sushi Lover

Hi girls,

*Lesley*... I hope you managed to get to your appt today what with the awful weather. Not sure what it's like in the North East? Let us know how it went! Glad my list of questions proved handy. Did DP go with you? I can imagine you must have been annoyed when you Mum said about your ex in front of DP... not nice for him to hear. Sounds the ex. can't move on for sure!

*Fififi*...... it's my last day of Noriesterone (progesterone) today... AF expected in next 2 to 5 days. Then I go in for my scan. Praying there are no cysts and I can start the treatment. What a good idea with the counselling for DE. I think that sounds like a cracking idea. Is the counselling session together as a couple or separately? I think it will be too much for you on the day of op hun.. don't try and cram too much in. You'll be nervous about the procedure so won't be able to concentrate on the counselling session and use it fully to your advantage. I'd do them on separate days. Did you see what I wrote about the progesterone cream? May be an alternative to cyclogest.

xxx


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## Moominmum

*Lesley*: hope today's appointment went well. Oh and forgot to mention the babyshower - here you go asking what to do with your friend and then you end up organising her babyshower. You are such a nice person!  

*fififi*: I agree with Kirsty. The counselling sounds great but I would not do it all on one day. It is a lot to do in any case, and on the same day just sounds a bit too much to take in emotionally... 

*Kirsty*: how exciting! I was just gonna ask where in the tx you were. Although I am thinking adoption could be a viable route for us I suppose I have still not totally stopped considering IVF and then I really need a clinic that does the embryo testing (forgot th fancy word for it) so it will be very interesting to hear about your experience. And as soon as you get your BFP I will be running there to have a tx  

Wishing everyone a great weekend! Babydust and hugs to all    

Moominmum


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## deblovescats

hi girls
thanks fiffi and lesley - hope your appointment goes ok.
just wanted to update you all. I am so frustrated!!!! i travelled to london but then this morning found out my flight had been cancelled because of the snow ! so the snow got me! then had to buy a mega expensive train ticket home! back to the thick snow ... must be ten inches here on the yorkshire coast! i'm so upset about it, tx will be delayed as have to rearrange initial appointment. Can't believe my luck
Deb


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## Moominmum

*Deb*, didn't want to read and run but just wanted to say that I am so sorry to hear your news. Every year it is the same, snow is coming and it is not unexpected and the whole country shuts down. How frustrating!


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## deblovescats

thanks moomin - trying to be positive! just emailed katie at serum to ask about booking another appointment - but my periods have been erratic since last tx so not sure when i can sort it yet - i've also got a lovely spa break with my sister booked in first week in feb (she won it in a free draw at work!) and linking it with sightseeing in london and seeing phantom - will be able to chill a bit, so need to avoid that part in feb
Deb


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## LellyLupin

Oh Debs no    this bloody snow!  What a letdown for you  

Well my first bad news of the year today at the consultants  .  He went through my two txs in detail and said that my body was totally ready to carry a baby, he said I respond fantastically well and have the fertility of a much younger person.  Lining perfect, eggs good, hormones perfect, immunes perfect,  FSH perfect - all ducks in a row - BUT although my eggs looked good and I got two grade As the first time and 3 grade Bs the second time,  genetically he thought my eggs were failing when they got so far along, and it could only be down to my age.  He said if he ignored my age on my first tx,  he would have said that I would have had a 40% of getting pregnant.  He said there is nothing anyone can take to improve egg quality,  as on the inside you cannot change them genetically.  He said that in most cases of people my age its egg failure that causes a BFN, I asked about immunes, implantation problems etc and he said very rarely is that the cause.  I asked about DHEA and he said it doesn't make a difference genetically.  So in a nutshell I will never have a child of my own without a donor.


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## Moominmum

Oh *Lesley*, so sorry to hear.  When I read what "your" consultant says I think that is what "my" consultant tried to say to me but did in a clumsy way. This really emphasizes my earlier point that the gradings of eggs/embies means nothing (well very little) for us 40+. We need the genetic testing really. So why is it not something that is automatically added (yes at an extra cost of course) to us when that is what it will come down to in the feedback in the end for any failure anyway?

The thing is Lesley, even if the majority of eggs are genetically bad at our age, there are still good ones there and these are the ones we need to get. Or rather, these are the ones we are paying the clinic to find for us. It only takes one...


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## hopeful68

lesley - so frustrating for you to have everything performing as it should and the 'egg' issue be the cause. i know how you feel as that is where i am. i am really struggling to consider DE at the moment and am burrying my head a bit on it. may revisit adoption - this might sound wrong but adopting is financially better for us, another Tx would cripple us. i know Hampshire have been advertising for more people to come forward and take siblings and have at least 90 waiting so....... do i need to have someone elses egg to get one or just someone else's unwanted child?? AAARRRHH just cant get my head straight! 

Debs - bloody UK and snow. it happens every time, how does the rest of the world manage the snow and we cant!!

hope the rest of you are keeping warm and safe in this weather! worked(ish) from home today but have to go out in it early tomorrow doing a 0700-1900 shift..... oh joy! enjoy your weekends. positive thoughts to you all.


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## Moominmum

Okay to so totally not about children but about the snow. Once when my dad was visiting from Sweden, flying to Gatwick, they were told on the plane (and I had warned him beforehand) about the snow chaos in London. When he had landed he called me to confirm the chaos and also pointed out "but I could see the grass!"  But this year might be worse than before. In Sweden it has been totally mad. One day in December, at the main airport, they cleared away snow the equivalent of 80% of all the snow of all of last winter...


----------



## LellyLupin

Thanks girls, I have to say my consultant was very honest and direct.  He said if I wanted to try again with my own eggs he would take me, but it would be against his professional opinion.  He said they were getting there with technology in testing the genetics of eggs, but it costs about £2,500 and its not generally available here.  He said he thought I would have a very good chance with DE as my body is very fertile.  I am now in the same boat as you girls with my head/heart struggling to decide what to do    DP is feeling so guilty he said if I wait a fortnight and see how I feel he may consider DE, although to him its just bringing up someone elses child.  I agree  Moomin why don't they just admit that the grades of our eggs means nothing really.  I remember my first visit to my consultant when he was so excited about my AMH levels and said he could almost guarantee I would get pregnant.  I got so excited too,  I wish I had known then that it doesn't really mean that much. 

Just watched the forecast and its gonna snow snow snow, your Dad may not get back to Sweden if he can't take off in it, hope you've got plenty of supplies in for an extended visit


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## fififi

lesley - sorry that the appointment today wasn't positive news   Am glad the consultant at least highlighted all your good bits. Like moom said you will have some eggs that are genetically perfect it's just a question of finding them. If you have a clinic within a sensible distance to you that does Array CGH testing (see Care http://www.carefertility.com/genetics-programme-sc2/ ) you would be a perfect candidate as you produce so many eggs. It is expensive but could make all the difference if you felt having OE was important.
Good that DH is on your side a bit now. I think the initial smack in the face from the consultant will be less painful once you've had a bit of time to think and step back. For last few weeks you've been building yourself up to this appointment so now you need time to digest. At least consultant not just after your money and him saying that was a good thing. (Mine said it was down to personal choice when we asked if it was "worthwhile" trying again with OE - had he recommended DE I would probably have felt sad initially but less unsure now as still can't totally close the OE page of my book.)
Hope you're able to switch your thoughts off a little over the weekend and have some relaxing time for you 

deb - grrrrrrrr, so sorry you didn't make the trip to Serum - can only begin to imagine how frustrated you must be   .
Definitely think your treat time in February needs keeping clear - sounds a fantastic weekend, so if you do decide to have treatment then perhaps your sis would like to take me instead!!!  
Hope you manage to co-ordinate a new appointment in not too distant future & your body co-operates with plans  (Perhaps it's fate intervening and you've not gone cos you won't be needing the tx after all ?!!!!    )

kirsty - hope your AF comes when it should and you're able to move to next stage of TX soon. Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions - will look into the progesterone cream. Plus am also of the mind that counselling needs to be done a different day - just having difficulty persuading DH to take time off work cos it has to be done together.

moom - hope things going okay for you at moment x

hopeful - don't envy your work shift tomorrow at all. Hope weather improves for you to make the day a little easier.
The DE v adoption thing is yet another puzzle. There are so many positives from both so it is a question of working out what suits you & DP best long term I guess. Although adoption takes longer (in theory) it will lead to a definite family at the end of the process wheras even with DE the outcome is still a numbers game and, like you say, a pretty expensive one at that.

/links


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## LellyLupin

Just a quick question cos I can't just switch my mind off    Does anyone know how much DE costs and how you go about it?  

Feefs thanks for the link but too far away xx  Have you decided what you are doing next?

Thank god for you ladies DP said I can talk to him but he has just bitten my head off,  think he is feeling very guilty and annoyed with himself.  Hes made me 3 cups of tea already.  Bless my brothers partner she has offered me her eggs,  but shes 40 so I had to tell her shes probably too old herself - nice of her to offer though.  

Hopeful just a quickie, I thought there was an age limit on adoptions is that not so?    Years ago my Auntie brought her sons girlfriends little girl to my house and asked me if I would adopt her.  Her son was a bit of a rogue, and this little girl was his girlfriends child that she didn't want (long and not a very nice story).  My Aunt had taken his son but couldn't take the girl too.  She was 3 years old, at the time,  I turned her down as I was single and working fulltime, the little girl ended up in care and from what I hear was fostered out and brought back many times (she had behavioural issues).  I have no idea where she is now,  but I sometimes wonder what would have happened if I had taken her.  I still remember thinking it was odd that it was Summer and the little girl had wellies on.


----------



## fififi

Lesley - your story about little girl has set me off crying (AF just started so extra emotional anyway) it is so sad how some lives are destroyed cos of their parents. One of the things I find hardest in my job is knowing backgrounds to some of the kids is heartbreaking stuff. There's several kids at school who I'd love to bring home with me for a weekend just so they can experience what a normal family is like. I hate sending one little 5 year old out to her mum cos not once have I even see her mum smile at her let alone ask how her day was.
You weren't in right place back then but it's sad cos you'd have been wonderful for that girl.

Think it depends on where you live as to adoption limits. We'd got approved then got our own miracle so pulled out when I was 38. When applied again at 40 was told we were too old. That response led to us trying IVF again and now that seems to have led to DE

Most clinics seem to charge double the cost of normal IVF for DE - so about £5400 plus a £450 one off registration fee. You need normal blood tests to be no more than 12 months old eg. HIV etc. That gives you half the eggs, either from an egg donor or egg share.
Look on your clinics website to see what they charge & success rates can be found on HFEA website for all Uk clinics

Hope you get some sleep - you've had a tough week xx

PS no matter how fab anyone's partner is its impossible for a man to understand how being at this point in life is causing us to feel. Even though I have a similar heartache to many I know it doesn't compare to that of someone who has not had the joy even once. I know how sad I feel so can have an idea of others pain but that's as far as it goes. I too really value my friends on here & know without you guys I'd probably be on antidepressants by now with no sense of a possible happy ending


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## Coolish

*Debs* - oh no, I can't believe your flight ended up being cancelled. Bloody weather! I've been struggling with sorting out my appointment. We had some family stuff up until this week, and then my AF has been irregular since my BFN in October. I spoke to Penny last week and she said for me to just book something and we'd re-arrange if my AF arrived at the wrong time. Hopefully you can enjoy your spa break and then have your appointment after that.

*Les *- I posted up some stuff a couple of weeks ago about DE. Prices are indeed around the £5k mark, but what you get and what you pay really differs between clinics, especially when you look at the difference between UK and abroad. For example, although you have flights and hotel additions for abroad, you do get all the donor eggs plus a back up donor in case the original donor doesn't respond well - plus I've never paid a 'registration' fee abroad. You need to do a bit of research and see what you need/want with DE to help point towards which clinic you might want. Personally for me that initially worked out to be a clinic in Alicante. I couldn't believe the difference in the way I was treated compared to my old UK clinic - I was tweated with respect and not part of a conveyor belt where you're lucky if you get 5 minutes with the consultant. They were also way ahead of the UK game in trying new techniques. I'd still recommend them now, even though I'm moving over the Serum - but that's due to my own 'complications'. Have a look at some of the DE threads - someone was asking what questions they should ask about DE the other day and ladies were responding with lots of useful info to help you decide on what's important to you in a clinic.


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## fififi

Lesley & anyone else thinking about DE this thread is very helpful http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=256679.0

Have a good weekend x


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## cornwall

Lesley,

DH and I tried for our own baby for almost 6 years. Tests indicated that I was still fertile but my eggs were getting old.
I knew after about 3 years that I would not conceive naturally and asked DH if we should consider adoption or even fostering. He was totally against both ideas. As far as he was concerned, there was no point in having a child unless it was genetically ours. We didn't talk about it again until about April this year, after a visit to his cousin's house. His cousin has two boys and I spent ages playing with the older one (aged 2). As we drove home, DH said we needed to have a child of our own. I said it would have to be donor egg and he agreed.

Now, as we await the outcome of our second cycle, we both wish desperately that we had started this process years ago, when I was in my mid 40s. We have very little time left. If we are successful, the baby will be genetically his and I don't mind that it's a donor egg as I don't think it matters that much and I already have children of my own. If we'd adopted, the child would not have been genetically ours at all.


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## LellyLupin

Thanks girls I will look into all the links etc that you have given me.   I thought I was doing ok after holding it together in the consultants office and all day.  Later I just cried and cried,  leading to some very awkward questions at Mums today because I looked such a state,  I had to say I had conjunctivitus to shut everyone up.  All day I have just been crying silent tears,  I just can't seem to stop them coming.   I ended up yelling at DP that he had no idea what he'd robbed me of, and how I was sure he was relieved that I could never have a child of my own, I hated him last night and was very cruel which I am ashamed of today.  He said to give it a fortnight and see how I feel, does he honestly think I will forget all about it in a couple of weeks.   My head is spinning,  one minute I accept that my eggs are no good and the next I want to give it one more shot just in case, then I have to take stock and be sensible that it would probably be just a waste of another 5k.  

Fifi yes I know exactly what you mean, you see so many kids being brought up in the wrong manner, my God-daughters mother is a really terrible mother, and I just ache to take her and bring her up properly.  She calls her stupid all the time and shes only 2 1/2 and a clever little thing.  She also gets her to say bad words which a child shouldn't know.  It breaks my heart that shes going to ruin her, DP says that when shes older I will be crossing the street to avoid her and I fear it will be true.  I daren't say too much to her as I haven't known her that long, I was friends with her husband not her and I want to keep an eye on the baby.    The little girl my aunt brought was exposed to her mother having sex at an early age (for money) and my Aunt brought her to me as she was dark skinned like me, however she was half asian where I am not.  The reason she was fostered and brought back so many times was she was displaying inappropriate behaviour, so it goes to show that the things you are exposed to in your early years do have a massive impact on you.  I would hazard a guess that she has taken the same route that her mother took and many more lives will be ruined by  a circle of abuse.  I feel so frustrated that we would all make great Mums and there are so many people out there who do not deserve to have a child  

Cornwall was your first cycle with DE too?  I really hope it works for you this time xx

Jules I will have a look at your posts, I already pay over 5k as we have to have ICSI too so DE doesn't sound too expensive for me.  I will do some research xx


----------



## deblovescats

thanks lesley and jules
i'm looking forward to my spa break, should get me chilled int time for tx! 
i've calmed down today after the hasle of yesterday. More flights are cancelled for today.
my sister is going to sort out flights for me next time, as she works for BA - can get some decent prices. 
got a nice email from katie at serum
i concur with jules  - no charge for initial appt at serum or scan, unless need an aqua scan. I was lucky to get 5 mins with consultant at UK clinic despite paying a massive price! then you are restricted with number of eggs from donor or for ET - only implant one. I'm feeling really positive about serum - once i get there!
Deb


----------



## Coolish

Les - it's a good idea to sit down and write a list about what'si mportant to you as they will really help you research the best clinics for you. For some people it can be, for example:
- that they want their child to be able to trace the donor 
- they want anonymous DE 
- they don't want a waiting list 
- they want to be able to match more characteristics than most clinics offer
- they want the best live birth results
- they have immunes or virology issues
- they can't face the extra hassle of flights and hotels
- they want a clinc that tries new procedures and meds
- costs and value for money
- if abroad, then it could be where are flights easier from your local airports

There's so many reasons, which is why it's a pretty individual choice. There's probably a whole load of questions I haven't even thought of! The DE threads are very good to just have a lurk around until you're ready to ask questions. The protocol is a little different in that you don't have to go through egg collection. Lurking will gve you a feel for the process and some of the clinics. 

Due to my age, I've never had NHS treatment. I've always had to pay. I've found that if I'm paying then I want the best and from my experience that's been outside of the UK.


----------



## Sushi Lover

Morning girls,

I hope the snow hasn't caused too many problems... apart from poor *Deb*! Oh no, what dreadful luck. That is so unfair.... ****ing weather! Have you been in touch with Serum to rearrange? The spa break and seeing a show is just what you need to take your mind off things.

*Lesley*..... so lots of positives lovie?... just the genetics bit that is letting us all down. Sounds like you can aethestically improve the look of the egg, but fundamentally it's still the same aging genetics inside it. We all continue to hunt for that one elusive 'good egg'... it's in there somewhere....shame the money to hunt for it often isn't though. I really hope your DP comes around and you can try DE. Your body sounds in the perfect state for a pregnancy. That's kind of your brother's partner... unfortunately at 40 she's too old as well though! Grrrhhh. Always something isn't there. Sorry you had a argument with your other half and have been so upset   I can imagine how you feel. the thought of not having a child of your own does awful things to your head/mood/temperament.. you feel like you are going out of your mind sometimes. If I were you I'd try OE one more time... then DE route... especially after hearing Cornwall's story and wishing she'd done it sooner. Please don't risk never being a Mum. It's not worth it. See what DP says in a few weeks....

*Les, Moomin and fififi *... the thing with finding the genetic testing though... it is really worth all that money? I mean, the embryologists (or EEVA) do their jobs really well and can spot a good quality egg from the outside and some basic inner diagnosis (shell structure, cell formation, fragmentation issues etc.)... is it fair to say that an egg that looks good from this perspective has a higher chance of being genetically healthier? If the egg has other issues such as poor cell division or thin shell then it will probably fail for those reasons anyway. What I'm trying to say is that it's probably worth trying IVF again with OE (finances permitting) and hoping that good quality egg pops out. They implant the 3 best looking ones anyway, so I don't know what genetic testing would improve in this instance (obviously is a different case with a genetic problem that is known about). I suppose the only thing it would do is possibly prove genetics is the issue and then you have no eggs to transfer and know for sure it's not going to work... but deep-down we know that anyway right? Of course... other option is DE as we all know.

*Hopeful*.... it's such a tough decision hun. Adoption is really good option though. Is there an age limit? I see that Fififi said it's 40, which seems so wrong.

*Cooljules*... how are you doing? Glad to spoke to Penny. Did you get around to booking your appt at Serum? Thanks for the list about DE... very helpful.

*Cornwall*....thanks for sharing your story. It's makes me think that maybe I should look into DE now at 40 rather than wait. There is still some sort of animal instinct that makes us want to reproduce naturally though. It's so hard to fight the feelings. When can you test?

xxxx


----------



## Moominmum

*Kirsty*, it is a hard one the whole thing about genetic testing. I think for me personally, as I had plenty of eggs that fertilised, the question is if any of the disregarded embies might have been genetically good but developed a bit slower than normal. Slow embies can turn into healthy babies. I mean all, or most of my fertilised embies, developed more or less "perfectly" up to day 3. Day 4, there were 2 clear "winners" that they wanted to transfer. But maybe there was a genetically good embie amongst the others, but that was just a bit slow, that could have been "the one"? Also, I would prefer to know that it was the "inside" that was wrong rather than just having that thrown in my face without any evidence - then it feels like a way for the clinic to "get away" with any responsibility that they should have.

I think also that you would save time and stress not having to go through a 2ww etc for something that was never gonna work anyway (if that is the case)...

Oh I'm not sure. It's such a hard one this!


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hi *Moomin*... it really is a tough one. I see what you mean about a 'slow burner' that might be genetically excellent. I remember with my embryos they transfer the three better looking ones on day 3, but kept the others in the incubator just in case. Unfortunately by day 5 the rest (6 more) had all stopped dividing so they were happy the 3 they transfered were the strongest ones. I don't think they dispose of any embryos until they are sure they've stopped dividing and just aren't viable. I suppose it would be good to know for sure it's the genetics that are causing the problem. But if there is no other reason it could be a process of elimination. The only thing left, as in Lesley's case, is the genetics. Everything else looks excellent for her. I wonder if it's worth paying £2,500/£3,000 to have this evidence... or spend it on another cycle or DE?

It would definitely save time and stress of the 2WW, I'm with you on that one! It's hard to admit to yourself it's never going to work without clear evidence. So from a psychological perspective it's worth it.

Tough call! I've already told myself that my genetics aren't up to scratch. So I either hold out for the elusive good egg or go to DE after this cycle. I'll be interested to see what EEVA shows us. Watch this space!

xx


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## Moominmum

*Kirsty*: I will defo follow you, no need to worry about that!  Another thing to put in the mix is that most seem to agree that the best incubator is the womb in which case, by doing the testing, you could find out sooner rather than later which embie to transfer. I think I am similar to Lesley, in the way that up to Day 3 all my results were top notch (and like a younger woman) but I think I am just a person that would rather know if it is the genetics. Maybe just a better to way to "accept facts" and then to move on to any chosen route whether it is DE, adoption etc. Everything else in the process is about numbers this and that, charts, tests etc so then to leave the final explanation to a "probable reason" is hard...


----------



## cornwall

This is a great discussion. I do understand the desperate need to keep trying with your own eggs, especially those of you who haven't had children already. However, the technology to test the quality of eggs is only just emerging and is therefore very expensive at the few clinics which are offering it. If I was still 40, I would keep trying with my own eggs as I know many women are having healthy babies at that age. If I was 45, I'd go straight for donor eggs because there is more chance of success and more chance of a healthy baby. Another option of course, is a tandem cycle - mixture of own eggs and donor eggs - if you were successful, would you feel the need to get a DNA test to find out if the baby was yours? Or would you just be happy to have your baby?

For those who asked, I have only had DE IVF. I saw no point in trying with my own eggs as I knew they were past it. My OTD this cycle is 23rd January but I will probably wait till Saturday so DH can be there too. I've had no symptoms except a bit of tummy ache yesterday and today - and feeling extra tired and hungry.


----------



## Moominmum

*Cornwall*: and if you were 42, what would you do then?  I think my personal issue is that I still have friends around me, my age or a couple of years older, that are preggers or just had a little one so I find it hard to let go the chance of using OE. But of course, I don't know how they "did it", it's not really something you talk about, is it? And then my other option, for some reason, is adoption. That is probably because adoption is so common in Sweden, so it has always been something at the back of my head. When I was younger I always thought that was the way I would become a mum.


----------



## cornwall

Moomin,

I was 43 when we first started trying and I expected to fall pregnant within a year.  Each month was heartbreaking. DH and I had all the tests done and there was nothing wrong so we were encouraged to keep trying. At the time, we didn't want to go down the IVF route - something we now both regret.

If I was 42, I would definitely try with my own eggs but I'd only try for a couple of years. If we had no success, I would want us to move on to DE or tandem.


----------



## fififi

A lady who cycled just after majority of us on 40s thread had embryo testing & for her the best embryo genetically was not either of the ones the embryologist would have chosen had she not had this testing. It does seem that the grading that can be done externally cannot match genetically testing - just shame the latter is still so expensive. As I don't produce enough eggs that isn't a realistic option for me anyway but it is still another thing in this difficult process where yet more "choices" are available and it's so hard to know what is really the best option for you.
I find the "unknown" side of my IF the hardest to cope with. Although heartbreaking to discover a reason at least you'd know what step is the next one to take instead of adding to your stress by not knowing if what you're doing has any chance at all.
Am fairly convinced I need to move to DE yet inside there's still a small voice in denial suggesting "just 1 more cycle in case I can do it". Wish I had endless money to allow myself to really try all that's possible!


----------



## Moominmum

*fififi*: that is so interesting what you are saying about that woman because that is exactly my fear! The grading system/technique the embryologists use is not really valid for 40+. That technique assumes that most eggs are genetically good but for most of us 40+ the "set-up" of eggs is the other way in that most of our eggs are genetically NOT good.

I feel that I'm standing at the crossroads and I have no idea what the right way is to go.

I can only be grateful that FF exists so that I can ventilate my confusion.

   to all

and


----------



## fififi

moom - embryologist grading is good to a point and I'm sure it does select the best in many cases but I agree that it's very limiting for older eggs especially if transfer is before Day 5

Think I need to start buying lottery tickets - though should I do "lucky dip" or choose my own numbers?!!!!!


----------



## Sushi Lover

Morning girls,

Wow,* fififi *and *Moomin*... how interesting about the lady whose genetically best embryo was NOT the one the embryologist would have chosen! That blows my money-saving theory out of the window! Fifi... any other details? One assumes it wasn't the best looking egg in terms of cell division and shell structure? And yet the genetic make-up was pretty good. Fascinating isn't it! I'm going to ask my clinic about that and give Mr Forman this example. See what his thoughts are.

*Cornwall*.. thanks for the encouragement with my own eggs for the time being. I don't know much about the procedure that involves using DE in tandem with OE so maybe that's another possibility for next time... and I pray I don't need a next time  ... best of luck for tomorrow lovie... thinking of you 

xx


----------



## RachelMaria

Wow that is really interesting - my clinic never gave me a grading for the eggs - but we did wait the extra time for a blastocyst - it was explained to us that it was a process of natural selection by doing this?


----------



## fififi

Cornwall - thinking of you and really hoping you get the good news you deserve tomorrow (or your delayed test date)          

kirsty - the lady who had genetic selection (Array CGH) had 5 embryos tested and of these the ones graded A & B by the embryogist were shown to be genetically abnormal whereas the only one found to be genetically sound was actually a C grade. I think the testing is done at day 2 or 3 so I guess it is possible that by day 5 the good embryo might have been graded higher and the other two not made so good progress. But it was quite revealing that she said had it been down to the embryologist alone the wrong one would have been put back. Sadly she had a ruptured cyst shortly after implantation and had xrays, antibiotics etc before they realised it was a cyst so ended up losing the embryo.
I now wonder whether the embryo that we didn't use that was a C rather than A or B could have been THE one but equally we have to go with what treatment we can afford and trust the judgement of the skilled embryologists who have as good an eye as it's possible to have. I am lucky in the fact I do feel my clinic are behind me and trying to get me pg - just a shame the big man in the sky / fate / whoever is in charge of life doesn't agree!!!!


----------



## Sushi Lover

*RachelMaria*.... leaving the embryos to get to blastocyst is not such a bad idea really in my opinion. There is a lot to be said for natural selection. I know some would say that the IVF process isn't natural to start off with and we shouldn't interfere with what nature intended, but the clinics can try and mirror a natural cycle as closely as possible. Waiting 5 days for blastocysts is part of it. However hard that may be to have the sad news that possibly none of them made it that far.

*Fififi*... thanks for info. That is so interesting! We are all encouraged to have the higher graded ones transferred and it seems they will not always be the most genetically sound ones. Wow. ALL embryos should be genetically tested as part of the grading progress.. especially in the over 40's. I think this is Moomin's philosophy as well. Yours too right? With my cycles they kept an eye on the lesser quality ones and they didn't progress past day 5, I'm sure that probably happened with you as well. Try not to think about the 'what ifs' if you can hun. It hard though. I'll ask about this theory at my clinic as well.

xx


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## MJ1

Hi Ladies,

How are you all today?

*Cornwall,* sending you lots of PMA!    hope that it is your time 

*Kirsty,how are you doing?

Moominmum, I know exactly how you feel re the crossroads.I had such am amazing cycle last time 11 eggs and 8 fertilised with a day 5 transfer, could I do another round with my OE rather than moving to DE... the million dollar question, but I think the chances are so much higher with DE that I cannot take the risk of using OE again... who knows what the answer is.

Lesley,  how are you? glad that you doggie is well now. Sorry that you were sad after your consultation. Hope that you are feeling better now and things might be a bit clearer.

AFM, hmmmm well have done alot of internet searching, and speaking to donor agencies... come to the conclusion that although it is a 'bespoke' service, it is an awful lot of money on top of the costs of the donor cycle at the clinic. 
I think that DP and I are going to join the wait list at Lister and go from there, we could be in for a 6-9 month wait, but I think that is more time to get pg and for it to sink in..... will decide in the next few weeks. 
Have a nice evening everyone
MJ1 xxxx*


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## fififi

MJ1 - glad you feel like you've reached a sort of decision point. I felt a lot more settled once we'd decided that we'd stick with current clinic and most likely have DE cycle rather than OE.
Not that I've done it yet but since you will need to have counselling session it may be worth asking if Lister lets you do that first since you're already patients with them. From what I've gleaned that will certainly help clear up remaining questions and just leave the tricky bit of heart and ever hopeful mind going along with things.
Other good news is that there seems to be quite a DE recipient shortage in UK at present so wait times are often much shorter than clinic initially suggests. Though think this is more likely if you're happy to have egg share as your donor rather than alturistic.

Hugs to all & extra baby dust to Cornwall


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## LellyLupin

Tandem? Tandem?  How come I don't know about this option?    Wow I feel a bit happier knowing I could do that.  Sorry I haven't been around while you have been having this discussion, (DP barred me off here until I had settled down a bit.   ) its been very interesting reading your opinions and seeing how many of us are at the undecided phase.  I am still totally undecided about what to do too.  Yesterday I had to stop myself thinking as my head was going around and around      I like the sound of tandem though.  I just can't get it into my head not to do OE again grrr I wished I had asked more questions when I was with the consultant  .  I was thrown by the DE issue and didn't ask the things I had on my list.  I wanted to know if the consultant knew that my eggs had been fertilised later than he thought, and put back earlier.  The consultant said he put back an 8 cell and 2 Morulas but he would have expected them to be at Blastocyst by the time he put them back in, but the embryologist told me they weren't fertilised until quite late so they were going back a bit earlier than usual.  What to do what to do.    Amazing that the eggs that ladys embryologist would have chosen were not her best eggs.  My embryologist said apart from the fragmentation indicators the 'good' eggs look brighter and clearer.  I too agree that all our eggs should be genetically tested as a matter of course after all we are paying enough.

Cornwall sending you lots of  for a BFP, no pressure or anything   but you have to have a positive to give the rest of us some hope.          and a   for luck xx

On the doggie front Suzy is on full form now, in fact she has been a little sod since we came back from the specialists.  We took her for a walk on the field in the snow (she loves the snow) and we were deep in conversation as we walked.  I looked around and said to DP wheres Suzy?  Cue major panic and lots of 'freaking out' from me only to find that the little madam had gone home!!!  

Sorry to post and run as DP is hassling me, I think he gets terrified when I am on the Forum that I will 'freak out' and shout at him again .

Much love to all of you lovely girls, you are my sanity at the moment and I really appreciate you all so much xxx  Will do more personals next time xxx


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## MJ1

*Fififif*, 
thanks for the words of encouragement, sorry, which stage are you at now? Great news re lack of recipents I like the sound of that finegrs crossed, just hope I don't get to the top of the list and become Mrs picky!! I know what a perfectionist I am at the best of times.. 
Yes my consultant did mention the counselling too so we will be doing that. The DE lady at Lister is out until Friday so I will give her a call then to dicsuss next steps.
Thanks ladies your knowledge, help, support and ears.. are wonderful 
MJ1 xx


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## cornwall

Hi everyone,

Well, I haven't tested yet. I'm going to wait until Saturday so DH can be here. Weather conditions on our roads have been dreadful this week and I don't want him driving to work after I've tested. Whatever the result, he won't be concentrating.

I would rather stay PUPO for ever   - or at least the next 3 or 4 months (then it would be obvious what the result was).  When I had my children, I didn't use HPTs so I've never actually got a positive result on one and I just can't believe I will ever see a positive result.


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hi girls,

*MJ*... I'm ok thanks. Got my baseline scan this afternoon and hoping there will be no cysts so I can start my injections! Sounds like you've nearly reached a decision with the waiting list at The Lister. That's great news. 6 - 9 months will fly by and it could be sooner right? As Fifi said. I believe they give you the longest scenario possible. You have that time to get even healthier and try to conceive naturally as well... as you've said.

*Fififi*.... That's good to hear that the recipients are in short supply rather than the providers for a change! Could even be as short as a 3 month wait perhaps?!

*Lesley*... I know, 'Tandem Cycle'?! I've never heard of it either. I think it's only abroad though. Will need to do some more in-depth research. Basically you cycle at the same time as your potential donor... then both lots of eggs get fertilised and they take the best ones. The thing I'm not sure of is will they transfer a mixture of both? Or is it just from one of you? Basically a 'fall-back' if your own eggs do not look good. I still think Genetic Analysis is the way forward. As we've all learnt... the grading means nothing for us, it's all about what's inside. So realistically a 25 year old donor will have a better gentically formed egg than we would! I like the idea that 1 of mine and 2 of the 25 year olds get put back in... then you kind of have this thought that it could be yours! I don't know if they do this though. How funny about Suzy... clearly didn't love the snow that much and wanted to be back in the warm! haha.

*Cornwall*.. I don't blame you hun. You wish away the 2 weeks and want to test, but then when it comes to it you don't want to actually know in case it's bad news. I would rather be PUPO forever as well!! Good luck for Saturday. Any symptoms to speak of?

xxx


----------



## LellyLupin

Wow Cornwall you have some willpower girl


----------



## fififi

Cornwall - wishing you lots of luck for Saturday then & hope it's a weekend to remember for all the right reasons     

Kirsty - hope scan goes okay

MJ - I'm in "inbetween land" still but 90% on side of have 1 last try with DE. Am having laproscopy & hysteroscopy mid Feb so waiting until that's out of way before making mind up. Not quite sure why but I guess it's because I'm thinking they might say tubes now blocked with endo and therefore if any chance of natural pg is gone then I'll know the last cycle is definitely the last chance ever so will want it to give us the best odds!!! (Oooohhh my mind is a muddle!!!!)

Lesley - glad you're sounding a little more like yourself again. So pleased Suzy is all okay and back to having fun!!!

Quick question for everyone reading this:
Has anyone ordered from Biovea and set up an account when doing so? I want to order some DHEA from them and have seen that they run a recommend a friend thing where person who recommends you gets £5 credit on their account & I get £5 discount https://biovea.net/ReferAFriend.aspx
If anyone would like to do this please PM me and let me know what info you'd need. Thanks

/links


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## MJ1

Hi Fififi,
Sounds like a good plan to me I had a lap and hys before any of my cycles.  It is always a good thing to have plus you never know.
Sorry I have never taken DHEA.
MJ1 xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Fififi*... scan went well, thanks for thinking of me. I'm a bit unsure that this is the right place to be putting all my cycle info though.. I don't want to appear insensitive. I'm on the current cyclers thread as well which some of you probably read too. I didn't have any cysts which was a first for me! I was worried about the DHEA causing more cysts as I am susceptible to them... but there was no need to worry. Lots of little antral follicles sitting there. Started my Gonal F last night.

I have to say I was really impressed with CRM. My previous cycles I've had a radiologist do my scan, fill out a form, then wait for the nurse to analyse it. A doctor did my scan at CRM and talked me through it. No messing about at different departments. He was so nice and booked in my next scan straight away (any time I wanted next week?!)... breath of fresh air. I'm going at 5pm after work. So no problems with my boss. Have a printed drug plan to follow, plus he's even given me tentative dates for egg collection so I can pencil them in...all being well. I found them so professional. Already secured a spot for EEVA testing as well. Fingers crossed!

xx


----------



## artist_mum

hi everyone, 
have been 'offline' for a bit with the build up to exams (yesterday) and lots going on this end.
anyway, just a quickie to say hi and wanted to let *Cornwall* know that I've been thinking of you. All the best for saturday, keep strong. I have everything crossed for you.
Roxy x


----------



## MJ1

Kirsty, fab news and what a nice clinic. Good luck with the injections   
Roxy, hope your exams went well 
Cornwall, lots of PMA! 
Hi to everyone else
MJ1 xxx


----------



## cornwall

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your messages. The PMA is building   but I'm still waiting till Saturday to test.
Symptoms? Difficult to know due to the cyclogest but I've had bouts of nausea, especially in the evenings - cook the dinner then don't want it. I also thought I was going to throw up on the bus today. I feel exhausted and sleep a lot. I feel hungry but only for cereal, bread, biscuits etc - not dinners. I get phases of feeling too hot or too cold and I've had a couple of dizzy spells when I thought I was going to faint.
Also, I've been feeling wet 'down there' , even when I've used the 'back door' for the pessary   . Keep rushing to the loo expecting blood - which is ridiculous because I'm not going to have a bleed until I stop the cyclogest.

So - those are the main symptoms (obviously sore boobs and nipples, cramps etc as well). 

I couldn't tell you if I was pregnant or not though - so will have to wait for the test and plan another trip to Cyprus at the same time


----------



## LellyLupin

OOOH Cornwall its all sounding very good    Please please be pregnant so we can all celebrate       

Kirsty stay on here while you cycle, we all want to know how you are getting on.  Glad your scan went ok and I hope this is the 'one' for you sweetie. 

AFM still talking myself in and out of donor eggs, then OE, then giving up, then donor eggs, then OE  and round and around we go  

On a lighter note 'Shelly' made an appearance at work on Monday.  Must say I was a lot less shocked than I thought I would be, I was more shocked at his appauling dress sense.   Bright blue lace dress, blue tights, an alice band and the most 'Pat Butcher' earrings I have ever seen.  We are in the process of toning him down    He has booked himself some counselling so I think we may see a lot more of Shelly and a lot less of Mike in the future.  

Roxy hope you exams went well, when do you get your results?

Hi Feefs I know just how you feel chick, this ivf lark is enought to send anyone barmy xxx

Hi MJ and everyone else hope you are all ok  xxx


----------



## MJ1

Hi,

*Cornwall*, oh wow hun this could be it!!  so hoping it is, we all deserve our turn and this could be yours, symptoms sound very promising.

*Lesley,* your post tickled me re 'Shelly' as that is my nickname . What a funny thing to see... please don't take that the wrong way if you get my drift..
I know what you mean about DE, OE any E!!!! arghhhhhhhhh the thoughts are endless.

*Kirsty*, I agree with Lesley don't you go anywhere! we are all in this together whatever point we are at! 

AFM, have decide today that we are going to make our appointment to see the DE lady and have our counselling (you have to have that before you can go on the list).So will be calling today. Plus I ovulated today so maybe it is an omen, make the app and then become pg! If only!
Have a good Friday all and catch up soon.
MJ1 xxx


----------



## RachelMaria

Af arrived today - dam and blast


----------



## Sushi Lover

Morning ladies,

Firstly, I feel quite emotional that you still want me to stay on the chat and update you with my cycle news. That's so lovely, what great girls you all are. The thought of us 'all being in it together' is so supportive.

*RachelMaria*...sorry to hear that hun. It never gets any easier does it? Getting those horrible telltale stomach cramps and then AF. I know how you feel. Have you thought about trying IVF again? Or are you sticking with trying naturally for the meantime?

*MJ1*... That's great news! Glad you reached a decision about DE. I think that's the hardest bit. Once you've done that you can just get on with it and the PMA returns! That would be a lovely omen.. you never know!

*Lesley*.... Bright blue lace dress? Jeez, what was Shelly thinking of? And surely the alice band and huge earrings make 'her' look even more like a man in drag?! He definitely needs your help!! What about the shoes? Size 10 red stilettos or something? 

*Cornwall*.... wow, you have loads of really telling symptoms hun. I'm laughing at the 'back door' comment!! Lots of my friends with children have said the carb cravings are very typical. Do you feel like you've got a hangover and just want to eat bread to take away that queasy feeling? I'm getting excited for you.  Any funny tastes in your mouth? BTW, my bleeding has started before whilst I was still on the pessaries.... natural hormones kicked in. So it is possible. All the 'wet' feeling is a good sign as well though. Newly pregnant ladies have a lot of CM apparently. Nice! 

*AFM*.... getting on fine with my Gonal F injections... so much easier than all the faffing and mixing as with Menopur and Fostimon. Just a pre-loaded pen that's ready to go... so quick and easy. Only probelm is it has to be refrigerated, so I have to be home at a certain time to try and stick with the routine rather than take the stuff out with me in a cool bag!! I don't suppose it matters either way if it's a few hours later one night.

xxx


----------



## Moominmum

Just a quick one.

*Cornwall*: how very exciting! The symptoms are def there. As Kirsty said the carbs craving is very common. I shall have to watch this thread every hour during the weekend to see you update 

*Lesley*: as I said before, I cannot believe everything happening in your life and the "Shelly" story is just surreal. You are right, seems as if she needs some advice on how to dress  As for thinking about what to do next and constantly changing your mind - well I am with you on that one. Unfortunately I don't think that the "answer" ever will be clear. It just depends on what angle you look at it each time...

*Kirsty*: don't you dare moving away from this thread. I am so so  for your tx this time. I have a feeling that you are on to a winner!

*RachelMaria*: so sorry to hear. I feel as if AF is just coming a bit too quickly each month...

*MJ1*: great to have made your decision about DE. It must feel good to know what you "want". I hate the limbo state I am in.

To everyone - have a fab weekend!


----------



## Sushi Lover

Ahhh, thanks *Moomin*! I'm not going anywhere then. Appreciate your prayers and good wishes. I hope your feeling that this is 'the one' are correct. Get your magic wand out and send some baby dust over here !! 

xx


----------



## MJ1

Hi,
*Rachelmaria*, Oh hun, so sorry to hear you news..  

*Kirsty,* Glad the Gonal F going okay. I have been on both and yes they are so much easier to do.

*Moominmum, * hmm well I think I am there.. as ready as I will ever be I think 

Afm, well app has been made for 4th Feb to see counsellor and ED lady........ yikes.... will really find out what it all entails then. 
Have a good one
MJ1 xxx


----------



## LellyLupin

Hi girls  

MJ1 so glad you have made your decision I am sure its the right one  .  Me I would like to go DE but DP doesn't, to be fair we havent discussed it very much but he is harping on about the 'future' but not mentioning kids in it.  I so wish I had a partner who wanted this as much as I do, I wouldn't hesitiate if DP wanted it too    Can you let us know what happens at counselling?  Not personal things of course, but how they help you make up your mind?  I really should go, at the moment I am enjoying the status quo while DP thinks I've forgotten all about babies  

Ah Shelly yes he said he is well aware that he looks ridiculous, especially without a wig.  We had a good chat on Friday and I gave him some make up and bracelets that I don't wear, so he was going to experiment this weekend.  I do feel sorry for him, I didn't at first because I thought it was a fetish, but chatting to him its been something he has battled all his life, his Mum told him that even when he was toddler he wanted to wear girls clothes.  At times I can't help but smile about what he says, its funny but not funny if that makes any sense , he has just ordered some stilletoes in size 11, he has ordered black as they go with everything  .  His wife still doesn't know he has been to work as Shelly, he is taking a huge risk not telling her as his first wife divorced him because of it.  Work have sorted him out a separate toilet and on days he has meetings he is coming in as Mike, other than that he is going to be Shelly.  I know Moomin it is surreal, I still can't call him Shelly as to me he is Mike and has been for the past 6 years.  If I can get a photo (with his permission) I will post it for you.    MJ how funny that you are Shelly too, you might want to change it to Mish now  

Rachel so sorry you have AF I know how disappointing that is  

Glad things are going ok for you Kirsty, did you really think we'd turf you off here while you cycled?  Of course not, I do feel we are all in it together.  We all hope you get your dream, your little boy or girl would be lucky to have you as a mum xx

Well must get back up to the stables, more hay and straw bales to shift, think I will need a radox bath tonight!  I have posted a pic of Toby for you to see, he might be my new baby if I decide to give up as his owner has offered to give him to me.  Not sure if I really want to take him on full time as its such hard work especially in the Winter.

Love to all and hello to everyone I haven't mentioned (hope you got a BFP Cornwall)  xx


----------



## hopeful68

Hi all, hope you have had a chance to relax and spend some quality time with your other halves. i managed to get out and do a bit of pottering in the garden - something i have neglected since my MC last Sept!! we have had chats about our furture and i think we have made the first decision, no more IVF DE or other - my eggs are too old and dodgy to use! so the question is now about adopt of not. i have swings between huge desire to love an unwanted child and then fears of the baggea that would bring, especially with older children. life is such a roller coaster some thimes. However DH and i are now getting on better again, the IVF debris emotionally has pretty much settled now i think (hope!). 

on a different note: we had a bloke at work several yrs ago who went through all the ops etc to change to a 'lady'. about 5 yrs later he /she really regretted it and wished he hadn't done it. he has since retired (i thnk we were back to 'he' by the time he retired! i was confused let alone the poor bloke himself. very brave getting things lopped off and stuffed up inside, but then to change his mind!!! LL i just hope your friend gets all the councelling he needs.

i have been following the thread just not posting too often, i see many of you are looking to future treatments so i wish you all well with them. if i had the money i think i would go donor egg or even embryo but i dont so not point pondering it really!! a really emotional time for you so a few  s and  s going your way!

better go, am on DH's laptop and he wants to ******** his friends! not done ** for ages!!

take care everyone, hugs to all and fingers crossed for a good year all round.


----------



## LellyLupin

Wow Hopeful your first paragraph, made me fill up   I am glad that you have made a decision but not that you didn't get your own baby    I totally understand your dilemma between adopting and baggage,  I also keep weighing up the peace versus baggage issue too.  I daren't even raise the baby issue at the moment for fear of rocking the boat.  I really feel for you, everything is such a rollercoaster of ups and downs and should I shouldn't I's.  I hope those people who fall naturally appreciate the ease of it all, I am sure they don't even give it a second thought   nI am glad that you and your hubby are doing ok with each other now and  you are catching up on other things. 

On the Shelly front I think part of the reason I feel the need to support Mike is years ago when I was 18,  I heard that a guy that I dated once or twice changed sex and ended up killing himself.  I regret that I didn't do more but I didn't know how to handle the situation at the time, and I felt I didn't know him well enough just to ring him out of the blue.  I am not sure if he did it because he wasn't happy as a woman, or if it was because he lost his family and close friends.  I think as your colleague found, that some people are generally unhappy and think that by changing sex it will 'fix' their unhappiness, and they can't cope when it doesn't.  I do know that in those days you had to be 'diagnosed' as transgender and you had to live as a woman for 2 years before you got the op.  I never saw him as a female,  but I did hear that he would get upset by shop assistants whispering about him.  I fear for Mike as there is no way he could ever pass as female, I just hope can he cope with being stared at and whispered about.

Keep us posted on what you decide xx


----------



## MJ1

Hi Ladies,

Lesley, Glad to hear that you are ok. Yes well we will see what they say on 4th and I will be sure to report back to you all. Ha ha, you made me laugh re my nickname Shelly.. I am also know as Mish so might stick to that one. I think you have been very understanding towards Mike and I am sure that he appreciates it too. Enjoy the stables

Hopeful, glad that you are feeling better, things are better with hubby and that you are still keeping in touch.

Hello to everyone else and hope that you are having a nice weekend.
MJ1 xxx


----------



## deblovescats

so sorry hopeful about your news - just glad that you have come to a decision and can move on. With the adoption front, you need to look into it if it's what you want. My cousin and his wife both had fertility problems so adopted two little girls aged 18 mths and 3 yrs. Typical family background - mother drug addict and had kids taken off her! they haven't regretted it, gave their girls everything, one is ok, but the older one has had major emotional/behavioural problems - partly as 2 younger siblings have been adopted separately and in a closed adoption. She's been in trouble with police. However, i suppose this could have happened if she'd been their natural child. I think you need to adopt as young a child as possible before their life experiences cause damage. But it can be very rewarding. The other daughter is more responsive to them. I admire people who adopt chldren, and i suppose i might think about it if my tx doesn't work out.
Trouble is as a single woman, you tend to be only able to adopt either siblings or 'damaged children'. 
lesley - Toby is lovely! i totally admire you with supporting shelley!i do agree that sometimes people who are having problems attribute them to their 'gender issues' and think that if they have a change of gender everything will be hunky dory - unfortunately it isn't always. They can also regret it.  I do hope that your DH comes round to your point of view lesley.
I'm in limbo at the moment- sorting out my passport ready for an appointment at serum hopefully mid feb. Thankfully the snow is disappearing- it was very thick yesterday! 
Deb


----------



## LellyLupin

Hi Debs thanks Toby is a lovely horse just a bit 'wilful', to be honest there are days when he frightens the life out of me, today was a good day though and he was quite well behaved for a change 

Your comments about adoption and single women, I understand the behavioural problems bit but not the siblings bit, is it because most people only want one child?    I totally agree that the younger the better for adopted children, in my earlier posts I talked about the little girl my Aunt asked me to take, she was about 3 at the time, and she had been fostered and brought back lots of time due to inapropriate behaviour, things she had picked up in her very early years.  I wonder if it is possible to change this behaviour with love and support, or if it is too late and its ingrained.  

Hope you soon get a flight out Deb, all the snow has gone here, but its snowing heavily on the moors.  The wind was bitter at the stables this morning to the point where my fingers wouldn't work properly, roll on spring!  Please let us know how your appointment goes when you finally get there and good luck xxx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Morning girls,

*MJ1*..... only a week until your appt now. Nervous yet excited? I hope you get the answers you are looking for.

*Lesley*.... haha, I know you wouldn't turf me off as such.. I was just worried it was the wrong place to be posting info about my cycle. It's lovely to know all my friends on here are following my story. Your comment about my dream son or daughter being lucky to have me as a Mum brought tears to my eyes. Bless you. I think the same about you and the other friends we've made on here. So unfair isn't it? We all deserve so much more. I really want your DP to want try the DE route as well. I just know it would work for you as everything else is perfect. Can you convince him to go to a counselling session at least? Ahh, Toby looks like a lovely horse. Is he smiling for the camera?! I think by the age of 3 children already have the stamp of their parents ingrained into them and it's very difficult to undo any emotional damage that's been done. Sad though it is. Something in their memory must just stick and never leave them. I don't remember much before 3 or 4 years of age.. so maybe that's the trick. Adopt a child before any lasting bad or damaging memories stick. The inappropriate behaviour... is that of a sexual nature? Because of what she saw her mother doing? That's just so awful. I remember from those Cathy Glass books (did you read them?) one little girl use to act out inappropriate actions on her dolls and teddy bears. It was done to her and she would reenact it on the doll. Makes me want to cry.

*Hopeful*... the adoption route sounds amazing if that's what you choose. I wish you luck with your decision and I'm so pleased you and hubby are getting on better after the trauma of IVF. It really does knock all relationships pretty hard.

*Deb*... I agree with you in terms of adopting as young as possible before any real physiological damage is done.. it's just so hard getting a baby/toddler though isn't it? I don't know much about it, so could be wrong. Glad the snow has gone and you can rearrange your Serum trip! I couldn't believe it yesterday morning when I opened the curtains and the rain has washed the white covering from my garden! Looks a bit grim out there again now though. The snow makes everything look so much prettier!

I hope *Cornwall* is ok?  

*AFM.*.. injections going ok... next scan tomorrow 

xx


----------



## MJ1

*Kirsty,*  ha ha, wonder how I will be feeling this time next week.... good luck with your scan tomorrow   lots of follies 
xxxx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Thanks *MJ*... can I ask you about your intralipid infusion? Did you find it of any help at all? I know there are different trains of thought regarding if it does any good at all. Some clinics swear by it and others say it's a waste of time. I wondered what your experience was? Any side effects?

xx


----------



## MJ1

Hi Kirsty, 

No worries, of course . I had mine at home by a [email protected] nurse, she was lovely. It didn't hurt, when they put it in your arm you do feel a cold sensation as the fluid starts to enter the body. They do take your bp every 1/2 hr just to make sure all okay and it took just under three hours as the liquid is quite thick so it cannot go too quickly into your veins. It is very high in calories and but that's about it. 

We used it after years of no pg, and decided to have it after my NK cells count was taken.  It seems that I came up with the various ideas and the clinic either agreed or not? 
So NK cell results in June and then I had it in August to cover me for a couple of cycles to try naturally, if no joy then cycle again in October. Which we did but the cycle was cancelled due to lining issues. I would give it a go if I were you, it isn’t overly expensive and if it works then great it’s cheaper than IVF. 
I didn't have it for my further cycle in December  as I was on full blown steroids so didn't need that as well.

I hope that helps. Are you thinking of having it with your current cycle or is it too late, it has to be done at a certain time when you are cycling?
MJ1 xxxx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Thanks for the info *MJ*,

My clinic have suggested I have it as part of my current IVF cycle. So the first one is during stimulation (this week sometime - Thurs or Fri afternoon), the second after egg collection and third if I'm pregnant in a few weeks. It's £300, so worth a try as the consultant is a firm believer it lowers the NK cells (mine are a little elevated). We'll see. I feel like I need to do a few things differently for this cycle.. just to change something. So my changes are different supplements for past 3 months plus DHEA, the infusion, then the EEVA and the embryo glue. Maybe one of those is the missing link!

As it's high in calories did you notice a change in your weight? I know it's a silly worry in the grand scheme of things. Got myself so healthy now I'm feeling a bit anxious about pumping a load of fatty acids into my veins!

xx


----------



## MJ1

Hi Kirsty,
Sound like a good plan to me and like you say it just needs a tweak. Glad that you are able to use the intralipid in this cycle too. 
As for weight.. hmm well I am/was a size 8 and (as my mum says) the weight gain wasn't a bad thing. I think in the 3 cycles I did in one year I probably put on about a stone altogether. I think the weight gain was the IVF drugs, steroids and intralipid combined. I wouldn't worry too much as once you are pg then no worries and you could lose your baby weight and intralipid weight at the same time. 
MJ1 xxxxx


----------



## cornwall

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the   and supportive messages.

We tested on Saturday with a FRER and it was BFN  . DH decided not to believe the result and said we should test again in a week. I also contacted my clinic and they have told me to continue with meds and get a blood test. So no one is going with the BFN just now. This is great, of course, but I feel a bit down about it all. It means I'm still PUPO and there is still an (outside) chance of a BFP.

I feel it's more likely that the BFN is correct though and I need to prepare for my next cycle.


----------



## artist_mum

hi

*Cornwall*, sorry to hear re: your test, it certainly isn't unheard of to have the wrong result but I understand you prob just want to know for sure. i guess the bloods will do that for you. sending you a big , this stuff is all so challenging.

*kirsty* - good to hear you are getting on with yours now, sounds like you have a lot of extra things going on this time so hopefully it will work out for you. You've taken so much care with moving this forward and seem to have a great clinic so    I hope this is the one. You sure seem to deserve it.

*mj1* good to hear you have made your decision, hope that changes it all for you..   wishing you lots of luck. Thx for asking about my exams, i should know in a few weeks time - i have actually no idea if i did well or not but that's contemporary art for you!

Really sorry to hear your news *rachelmaria*. Hope things get clear for you for your next steps when you are ready. Big 

*hopeful* congrats on making choices, and putting each other first and all of that - it's so much the hardest part of all this, deciding what is best and i admire you for remembering to potter in the garden.. these are the important things really  All the very best and I pray that the right child or children come to you. Abroad is another option perhaps (go thru adoption procedure but help kids from another country?) Well, it's just a thought.

*debs* exciting to hear you are off to serum, that lady is certainly famous for this stuff, so let's hope she can do it for you! I think it's a great chance you have with her.

*lesley* hiya I've been trying to catch up on all the stuff on here... sounds like shelly is still giving you a run for your money! But i completely understand if you had that experience with the chap who committed suicide, how awful. We really should think that we are lucky to have what we have, how challenging it is for people in those circumstances. I was seeing also that you are going round and round with the choices open to you, it is SO hard to know what is best. But I"m sure you will know at a point in time, and just go for that. Thanks re exams, went OK and I should have the results in a couple of weeks. It is the final year of my degree so this is the last push really, just one more big essay and the final degree show and I'm outta there!

*moominmum* sorry to hear you are still in limbo-land. I do think making the decisions is the hardest part, getting a feel for what is the best choice for you and yours. Still, like i said to Lesley, you will know at a point in time so I'm wishing you lots of wisdom to know what it is you want to do & that it works out from there... 

hi also to cooljules if you're reading.

AFM We are looking at DE FET in Spain 12 March so have started on the pill, then decapeptyl injection, then hrt & progesterone. Also having help from ARGC with immunes, so like Kirsty I'm hoping that the extra steroids will help my immune system to do the right thing by these embryos!

I'm going to be less on here for a bit. I find with the degree and the skids that I don't manage everything and get quite stressed, so will def check in now and again but for now trying to stay off the computer a bit (my DP keeps telling me this so I am going to listen for once in my life!)

lots of  to you all, you're a great bunch of FFers! 
much love
Roxy xx


----------



## deblovescats

sorry to hear your news cornwall - just hoping and praying for a BFP after all, but go for it with the next cycle if it isn't
thanks artist - good luck with your course
I'm just hanging around here - got my passport ready to send, so posting tomorrow, fingers crossed i get it back soon!
our offices were decorated over the weekend so today's been manic- trying to get rid of junk and deciding what to keep!
snow's almost gone - so fingers crossed for feb!"
I'm getting positive vibes now
Deb


----------



## LellyLupin

Cornwall I truly hope your BFN is wrong and i will be praying for a miracle for you   

Hey Roxy    Yes I am slowly going mad  .  Ideally I'd like to go to Serum and try again with OE, I just been trying to persuade DP  I think I am going to explode with frustration shortly    I hope you did ok with your exams and it won't be long before you are at your graduation, but even more so I hope you get your baby and your dreams come true   xx  I know what you mean about fitting everything in and being stressed.  On the Shelly  front we have had another chat today and he seems happier now that his son has accepted it,  his wife has also tenuously given her permission for him to come to work one day a week as Shelly.  He came as Mike today but with coral coloured nails which I found a bit strange, he also showed me his new shoes bless him and he has ordered a wig so he is definitely serious about it all.    He starts his counselling soon which should help him sort his head out,  I think I should have some too to help with my decision making.  

Kirsty stop worrying about the treatment making you fat, hopefully your baby will be the cause and you won't mind one jot    The little girls inappropriate behaviour was sexual, I don't think she had been abused herself but her father was her mothers pimp, hence my Aunt not being able to take her.  My aunts son got involved with drugs and ended up with this girl who was making money for drugs by prostituting herself.  She and my cousin had a boy which my Aunt took off him (she found out that he didn't even have a bed in the flat, he was sleeping on the floor),  and the little girl was an accident with her pimp.  Luckily my cousin went into rehab and is now clean and happily married (to someone else), and has two more kids, his son stayed with my Aunt.  It was a horrible business and I think the loser in the whole situation was the little girl.  I had hoped that her mother would lose all access to her but apparently she didn't.  I dread to think what the girl is doing now.  I haven't read the books you mentioned, too sad for me I am afraid, but it does seem that your very early years have a massive impact on how you turn out.  Personally my earliest memory is from about the age of 5, can't remember a thing before that.

Hi to everyone else xx


----------



## LellyLupin

OK really daft question coming   DP has antisperm antibodies and when we went back for our follow up session,  my consultant mentioned that once they had washed DPs sperm it swam nicely.  Therefore is there such a place that will wash the sperm for you and hand it back, so you could do a turkey baster job or at least try?  Anyone know or am I being completely ridiculous?  Or desperate


----------



## MJ1

Cornwall still keeping all crossed for your BFP cx
Roxy, will miss you stay in touch good luck for March  
Hi to everyone
MJ1 xxx


----------



## MJ1

Hi Lesley, not mad it's called IUI they wash the sperm and then put it back just before you ovulate basically it cost about £1,000 a lot cheaper than IVF but success rates are low. I was thinking about it but we have decided to go straight to DE I think. Sorry for grammar on phone responding. 
Take care
MJ xxx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Morning lovely ladies,

*MJ1*... I think that putting on a bit of weight goes with the territory during the treatment cycles and we just have to 'go with it', no matter how much that goes against the grain and doesn't feel entirely comfortable. I find it hard though. I've put on half a stone since I started cycling last Feb, but now expect more with the intralipid then. Oh well, I'll try anything to achieve that dream so really must keep telling myself it's no big deal!

*Cornwall*... so sorry to hear the first test you did was a BFN. I pray too that it changes for you and you get the BFP you deserve. As the others have said... it happens a lot. Stay strong.

*Roxy*... glad your exams went ok... I admire you for finding the time to do your degree. I'd like to do the same, but it just seems such a mammoth task. Did you go to evening classes or do open university? Best of luck for your DE FET in March.. sounds like a plan. Yes, let's hope the steroids do the trick this time. It can be a bit stressful keeping up with the posts on here. Luckily I'm not busy at work so have time during the day.. but I understand totally. Pop in when you can.

*Deb*.... glad you are getting lots of  !! You sound very upbeat. I hope the trip to Serum is 'the one' for you.

*Lesley*... I know, it's silly about the 'getting fat' worry isn't it? Really is the least of my worries. I've just always been careful with my weight since my twenties and it freaks me out a little bit with this intralipid thing. Yes, I won't mind at all if I'm preggers! I've probably put on half a stone since I started my treatment a year ago. It bothers me a bit, but I'm dealing with it. I sound like a total diva don't I !! haha. I have to just get over it I know. It really isn't important. So sad about the little girl, the mother still having access will unfortunately do her no favours at all. They wash the sperm and put it back in with a catheter straight into the uterus for IUI as MJ said. I don't know of any way to DIY though. I hope you convince DP to go to Serum... how about arranging a telephone appt with Penny to talk through your options? You don't even have to tell DP at first.

Hello to everyone else reading!

*AFM.*.. second scan today at 5pm.. wish me luck!


----------



## MJ1

Good luck Kirsty!!


----------



## MJ1

Hi Ladies,

I have just read on another thread that UK clinics are only allowed to put 1 embryo back with DE. Is this true. Does it increase if you are over 40?

Thanks
MJ1 xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

It's my understanding that the maximum is 2 embryos with donor eggs if you are over 40.  3 embryos with your own eggs.

I know they are actively encouraging a SET now to stop multiple pregnancies.  I think this is for the younger girls though.  Or donor eggs from a young woman.  

xx


----------



## MJ1

Thanks Kirsty, how did your scan go today?
MJ1 xx


----------



## fififi

On phone so can't write much but wanted to send hugs to Cornwall & Hopeful - you're both at challenging places right now & really hope the light at end of tunnel brightens for you soon xxx

Kirsty - hope your cycle going ok x

Hi to everyone else. Thinking of you all xxx

No change my end - head & heart still in DE v OE debate whilst little bit of me still hoping for natural miracle so can escape further financial & emotional trauma!


----------



## Sushi Lover

My scan went well thanks girls.

10 follicles (6 on the right and 4 on the left) ranging from 12mm to 18mm...plus a few smaller ones. Lining is 7mm.  So I'm really pleased with that!

Dropping my Gonal F dosage to 225iu so that the smaller follis can catch up.  Next scan and first intralipid on Friday afternoon and likelihood of egg collection on Monday.

xx


----------



## Moominmum

*Kirsty*: great news and how exciting!


----------



## MJ1

Kirsty,     exciting stuff!!
xxxxx


----------



## artist_mum

yes, that's really good news Kirsty.  EC coming up fast then..   for you. Re: my studies, it is a full time course in a local uni - has taken 5 years instead of 3 as i took 2 years out to earn more money/have time for the skids, it's been a struggle really (financially and time) but to be honest I started it when I was alone and wanted to do something positive with my life.  Then of course I met DP and now here we are doing IVF as well... aargh!  Doesn't seem enough time for everything does there?

mj1 - we can have 2 DE put back, but that is in Spain of course.

fififi - aha... the debate continues - wishing you clarity, you'll get there!

hi lesley & everyone else, wishing you sanity amongst all the madness we have to contend with  

Roxy xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Thanks ladies!

*Moomin*... very exciting, but nerve-racking as well.. as we all know... I know there is a long way to go so I'm not getting my hopes up just yet.

*MJ*.. thanks for my dancing bananas and pacman?! Showing my age now! Could be a bouncy ball 

*Roxy*... thanks for the positive vibes, I can't believe EC will be as close as Monday. Small panic with work/having time off etc. It's never straightforward. Never enough time for everything I agree. Wow a full-time course must be tough going. I admire you for applying yourself, especially with the financial and time-management struggles. Dedication or what! Plus IVF on top. Goodness, I feel stressed thinking about it Rox!

xx


----------



## cornwall

Hi there,

Kirsty: very best of luck with EC. You will soon be PUPO  

Fififi: thank you so much for your support over the last few days.

I hope everyone is coping. Daily life is hard enough and IVF certainly adds to the stress.
I've lost hope of getting a magical BFP this cycle. I will see what the weekend brings but I really think I'm out this time.
Will have to hope for third time lucky


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Cornwall*.. thanks so much... I'm desperately sorry to hear that your cycle probably hasn't worked lovie. Did you test again? Or are staying PUPO for as long as possible? We all know exactly how you feel and the girls on here are so supportive. I hope you have lovely friends and family to help you through this difficult time.

I'm glad you will try again...this is my third proper try now (fourth if you count the cancelled/poor response one)... it is tough going, but I really do think the perseverance will pay off in the end and we'll realise our dream. I hope the same goes for you.

  thinking of you.

x


----------



## Jammy J

Well done Kirsty on your scan, another step closer. Xx


Afm, I have 7 lovely embryos and am having 5 day blast transfer tomorrow. Hopefully they will put 4 back fr me!! Xx


----------



## cornwall

JAH: fantastic news! Hope it all goes well.

Kirsty: thank you. I haven't tested again yet. I will wait till the weekend. Symptoms are fading though and I just have that feeling  
I haven't told anyone about the IVF so just DH here to support me. He's wonderful though   And all you lovely ladies here on the forum and so supportive. I don't think I'd have got this far without your help. I say things on here which I can't tell DH - although he seems to be picking up the forum language so maybe he reads it after I've gone to bed.

Yes, third time lucky. The clinic said they would do a hysteroscopy if this cycle didn't work and I'll ask about immune issues, just in case they think it's worth trying anything else.


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hi *JAH*... thank you. Wow, 5dt transfer is brilliant. Are you in Greece? Sorry I can't remember. They'll transfer up to 4 then? Goodness!

*Cornwall*..... I'm the same as you with telling people. i.e. nobody! I think if you have the support of a lovely partner or hubby plus the girls on this site then it's enough. Men don't understand everything our bodies go through and the way we feel. No matter how hard they try, only someone who has gone through the same process can understand fully. That's why this website is lifeline. I had immune testing after 2 failed cycles and they found I had elevated NK (Natural Killer) cells.. I'm having the intralipid infusion and higher dosage of steroids this time around. Changing just one small thing could be the difference between BFN or BFP. I had a 3 month break to get the DHEA into my system, plus additional supplements. You never know! Sorry you have 'that feeling'.. I know the one you mean. I'll pray for a miracle for you... if not it will be third time lucky for you I'm sure 

x


----------



## Jammy J

Yes I am at Serum in Athens. They really are great. 4 sounds scary but I have to take the chance. Xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

*JAH*... yes, four does sound scary, but I think I'd do the same as you and take the chance. Good luck for your transfer tomorrow

x


----------



## aprilclare

I hope you won't mind me dropping in to ask your advice, I searched for SET and this thread came up and I am in my late 40s.

I'm due to have donor egg ET tomorrow and when we started out at this clinic we were persuaded that SET is the right and safest way to go. I didn't have a wobble about it until this morning when the embryologist told me we have 4 embryos, 3 grade 1 or 2. If they continue in a similar way overnight the fourth won't be freezable so should I have it transferred tomorrow along with the the one the embryologist chooses?

I can see from the thread that some of you have looked into this and I'm trying to catch up fast because until today I didn't imagine this scenario. I tried to contact my GP but she is not there today 

I'd really appreciate your thoughts, if it's not too rude to interrupt.

April xx


----------



## Jammy J

Hi April. 
Sorry not sure on the best way to advise you however I had 4 x blast embryos transferred today as I couldn't face leaving any behind. Xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hi April,

Of course that's fine to ask us!  Not rude at all.  We are quite friendly bunch really  

If I were you I would definitely have two transferred.  There is a good chance as they are donor eggs from a younger woman that the SET will work, but as a contingency plan, two is a better idea in my opinion.  Will you freeze the others?  Obviously you have to be prepared for a multiple pregnancy.  But like many ladies in their 40's on this site, I'm sure you will see that as a blessing rather than a hindrance.  I still think that their are other issues for us older girls that may put us at a disadvantage to the younger girls...  womb lining/implantation, hormone levels etc.  So I don't necessarily agree with the recommendation of a SET to a '20 something' should be the same advice to give a '40 something' (with donor eggs). 

I hope that helps and good luck with your decision.

x


----------



## fififi

April - if your clinic will put 2 back then I too would probably go that route as long as you are sure that twins or triplets is something you would be happy about should both implant.
A twin pg is higher risk so equally if your clinic said no then you need to focus on fact that 1 embryo has the same chance as 3 of yours ( if you're over 40) so if it does implant it will continue to have the best conditions possible to develop.

Don't think I've helped much - sorry.
Hope you get some sleep tonight and that ET goes smoothly tomorrow. There is no wrong decision here as if there was the clinic would make it for you. Go with whatever option you feel happiest doing


----------



## LellyLupin

Hi April I would go for 2 if you are happy to have twins.

JAH 4 wow 

Cornwall big hugs to you.

Hi to everyone else

Sorry to post and run Mum back in hospital so having a very stressful day xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Oh no Lesley!!  Sorry to hear that. Big hugs.

Sorry for short post... Hooked up to intralipid drip and trying to type one-handed on iPad.

Hope you get some time to relax at the weekend and your Mum is back home soon

Xx


----------



## artist_mum

April - i wonder if you mean that you are OK for having 2 transferred but the question is whether to have 2 of the grade 1 & 2s or whether to have one of those and the 4th one if it cannot be frozen?  I think in any case your clinic will advise you and if i were in your shoes I would take the option to have the best 2 put back and just see if number 4 can be frozen or not.  I bet your clinic will guide you on what they think is best depending on how things are in the morning.  Try not to worry tonight, the situation may be different tomorrow.  I am also late 40s and I think it is def worth having 2 to give yourself the best chance as time is not on our side.  All the very best,   for you and that you have the right embryos to fulfil your dreams 

kirsty - exciting, it's all happening..! Wishing so much luck to you for this time.  

lesley - hope mum improves quickly.  big  

jah - wow!  Best of luck to you.  Totally understand you wanting to take the chance

Cornwall Just sending you a  . 

Roxy xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Morning girls, hope everyone is doing ok?

Sending Cornwall big hugs today... Hope your miracle happens.

How is your Mum Les?

All went well at my clinic appt yesterday. Intralipid was fine. Scan went well.... 13 follicles ranging from 15mm to 22mm, plus 7 smaller ones. Egg collection 11:30 on Monday. Feeling quite uncomfortable now. Lining a bit thin which is the only downside. 7mm. It does have the 3 layers though and is good quality. Prescribed Viagra !! It increases the blood supply to the area. Has anyone heard of this before? I have to insert them as well! Odd.

X


----------



## cornwall

Hi everyone,

Kirsty: sounds like it's all going well. I have heard of others having to insert viagra. It does seem a bit odd but apparently it works.

Les: hope your mum is ok.

Best wishes to everyone else.

My result is a definite BFN so I've contacted the clinic and we're preparing for the next cycle. I've asked if we should look into intralipids or anything else this time. Lining has been fine both times, fertilisation was fine - just no implantation


----------



## Jammy J

Cornwall, very sorry to hear your news. Take it easy xx


----------



## fififi

Cornwall - sorry to see your news   

Have you had basic immune testing done? Might be worth having NK biopsy to check as an extra on top of basics - that also gives you an endometrial scratch that has some evidence to suggest aids implantation. Your clinic could also do scratch in cycle before your next IVF as that could help.

Kirsty - good news that you're progressing well. will keep fingers crossed your lining thickens  

Lesley - hope your mum improving & home soon if not already  

Jah - wishing you lots of luck  

Hi to everyone else - cant read back & post so will write proper msg soon when on laptop xxx


----------



## LellyLupin

Hi everyone Mums still in, had a very long day back and forth to the hospital, hopefully she will come out this week sometime.

Kirsty thats a lot of follicles, hope your dream is in there among them, good luck with EC XX

Cornwall it was the same for me everything fine but no implantation.  So sorry chick  

Hi Roxy & Fifi

Quick question I need an opinion on.  Scenario - if you had fallen out with a sibling over a lie her husband is telling about your partner, if you could prove the lie but it would cost your sibling dearly, would you clear your partners name and be able to live with the guilt or keep quiet?  

Mike update - he looked fab on friday very co-ordinated and well put together.  He was singing at his desk this week so he is obviously happy he can be himself. 

AFM seeing families around patients in the hospital today, and having to fight to get Mum diagnosed, I had a moment when I thought who would be there for me when I am old, it really brought it home how important having a family is.  Told my sister what the consultant had said about giving up and she was shocked, I still can't make my mind up what to do so I am just shelving thinking about it for now.  I do know that if DP was fully on board I wouldn't hesitate to go DE.


----------



## deblovescats

so sorry to hear you're having a tough time lesley! i know how you feel. My sister (who also is single, no kids) and i often say who will be there for us when we're old and need support (i know this isn't the reason to have kids, but you just muse on this) Today i took my mother to an appointment (we've been going every month for the last eight months as she has wet macular degeneration and needs reviewing/some months an injection in her eye, so can't drive. I also took my aunt (mum's sister who's also a widow) for a run out as the hospital's 18 miles away, then fish and chip lunch and then back for tea. So not a relaxing day. I seem to be filling my time with work and mum's appointments! 
i hope you find the strength to work out what you want to do.
I've got an appointment booked at serum on 2nd march with Penny, so hoping to cycle mar/april. I know i need to do this.
my mother is usually supportive, but this time, i could scream, she has another eye appt on that date so said maybe you could book the appt on 23rd feb instead (the weekend i have a colleague's 50th birthday party) my sister doesn't drive, but said she could take my mother by train instead. I did say if i dont' go, otherwise my life's just running around with appointments and no socialising. DOn't mean to sound mean, but a bit fed up at times.sorry for rant
Deb


----------



## MJ1

Morning Ladies,

*Lesley*, so sorry to hear that your mum is poorly again, it must be such a worry. I do hope that you get to do DE and hubby is in agreement. Funny what you said about 'growing old alone' my DP always says the same as his Dad doesn't have a partner and I don't know where he would be without my DP. He does have a sister but she doesn't drive so all the hospital visits are down to DP and there have been a few over the years! Funny to hear that Mike/Shelly was singing... bless...

*Cornwall*,   so sorry that your outcome was not what you had hoped, good that you want to again  immunes and hyst definitely a good move.

*Kirsty*, glad that your intralipid went well, told you that you had nothing to worry about. How excited are you for tommorrow and lots of follies growing nicely by the sounds of it.   for your lining, the viagra will help it is used alot for lining problems I hear.

*Jah1*, wow 4, thought I was taking a risk having 3, good luck to you 

*Hi Roxy & Fififi* 

AFM, not much to report yet, first DE app at Lister tommorrow afternoon so will wait and see, have today added up the basic blood tests that I need and they come to £450! that's without DP's..... ho hum, my mum has said that she will help us out this time wih finances, she said that she couldn't think of anything better she would want to spend her money on and will buy us the best pram money can buy...  made me fill up.... Will be able to fill you in with more info next week.

Enjoy your Sunday ladies

Love MJ1 xxxxx


----------



## hopeful68

a big hug to lesley! so much on your plate at the moment! I too have had the 'who is going to look after me' thoughts too. as DH is 13 yrs older than me i figure statistically it will be me on my own not DH!! i have conceeded that i will just have to bribe my niece and nephew to look after me!! i have burried myself in work adn my course to avoid making decisions!! I have pondered adoption on and off and really dont want a UK adoption due to the baggage. it will take about 15 months to get approved and ig you go abroad you have to pay for it but i dont know how much that will be yet! UK it is free. either way it is a long slog and family and friends have to have interviews and homes vetted. such an invasive process it dont know i can cope with it all!!

baking stuff today - again distraction behaviour!!

HAVE A GOOD WEEK EVERYONE!


----------



## LellyLupin

Aw Debs its not mean to want more out of life    I know how you feel yesterday was like that for me, up and down to the hospital and Dads for clean clothes for Mam for when she comes out.  To top it off me and my sister are not speaking, so it makes it difficult trying to arrange who is going to visiting and when, as I can't/don't want to speak to her directly.  Mums still in but today but my sister is going so I can't.  I have had the horses to do but today but that didn't cheer me up,  as someone is now buying Toby, and Sally was ill so I may need to get the vet out for her later when I go back up to muck out and put them to bed.  Sally is 27 so I know she is on her way out, I also saw a big white patch on her eye that none of us have noticed before so we think she may be going blind.  The horses were my back up plan in case I didn't go for DE but it looks like they won't be there either, I feel like I am losing everything at the moment      You Mum has to realise that you are trying to make a life for yourself and how important it is for you to get to Serum, I would let your sister take her on the train and you keep your appointment, you have to put yourself first Debs its too important.  My oldest sister said she'd look after me when I am old, I think shes forgotten she might be old herself  

Aw MJ what lovely thing for your Mum to say thats so sweet, I am glad shes going to help you out financially.    I think DPs Mum would help us but DP doesn't want her to know about my ivf.

Hopeful I have been shunning making decisions too,  everytime I try to discuss anything with DP he goes all moody.  I even went shopping this afternnon to take my mind off things but all I could see where toddlers and mothers everywhere which doesn't help.  I ended up shopping for DSDs birthday instead.  Have you given yourself a time frame to make your mind up in, everything we try to do just seems so complicated doesn't it?  

I  bumped into my Aunt at the hospital yesterday and asked her hatever happened to the little girl she tried to give me  Apparently shes 15 now!  Can't believe how fast that has passed.  She never did find a home and now shes in boarding school in the Lake District and shes training to be a soliciter.  Shes very bright but very troubled and her mother doesn'y visit her she just phones her now and again.  My aunt said she wanted to come and stay with her for a week but my Aunt doesn't want to get involved, even though the girl still calls her Nanna.  How heartbreaking is that shes been rejected all her life poor kid?

Hi to everyone else xx


----------



## LellyLupin

Jeez I am starting to wonder if my life is a test of endurance    Just got back from the stables and the vet thinks Sally has had a stroke, she is very wobbly on her feet and seems to be supporting her backside with the wall to stop herself falling over.  The only advice he could give was to bed her down and see how she is tomorrow - cue one sleepless night.  To top it all off Suzy has just fallen from the top of the stairs to the bottom, she seems ok but I will have to keep an eye on her.  Lets hope tomorrow is a better day!


----------



## fififi

Lesley     sorry to see so many s** t things happening around you at minute. Hope tomorrow brings better news


----------



## RachelMaria

Hi Lesley - rains but pours and all that


----------



## MJ1

Hi Ladies,

*Lesley *   extra big hugs today, hun what a rough time you have had...

*Kirsty* where are you hun, all go okay today for EC

AFM, had counselling and consultation with DE lady today...... well all went fine, the main crux of the counselling was to ask us if we knew the legal implications, telling the child, how we got the the decision of DE and how would we cope with another failure?? so all pretty standard, we paid the wait list fee, then they took some details on characteristics, filled us in on next steps.... and now the wait begins.....

Love to all
MJ1 xxxxxx


----------



## fififi

lesley - few more      and hoping today was better day

mj1 - have sent you PM re counselling
Glad you've left feeling positive and hope that you're be bringing some happy news to this thread soon   

kirsty - hope EC went okay - thinking of you        

Hi everyone else


----------



## LellyLupin

Thanks girls   but it seems my run of horrible luck continues.  Sally wasn't any better and was put down this afternoon, I can't believe how fast it has all happened my head is still spinning.  I am feeling so guilty as I didn't say goodbye to her last night, I just didn't think it would be the last time I saw her.  I have been down and cleaned her stable out and put her things away so Janet (her owner) doesn't have to face it tomorrow morning.  I really am not enjoying my life at the moment  

A little good news is Mum is out of hospital again for how long I don't know, and Suzy doesn't seem any worse for wear despite her tumble down the stairs.

Kirsty I hope your EC went well and you are ok. xx

MJ Hopefully you will soon be at the top of the list and are soon having TX again.  What sort of questions do they ask regarding characteristics? Are you excited about the next steps?

Hi to everyone else xx


----------



## fififi

lesley - I am sorry that Sally had to be put down    
Don't beat yourself up about not saying goodbye as I'm sure she was well aware of how much you cared for her and would have felt calm knowing you had been there last night

Glad your mum is home again & that Suzy seems fine xxx


----------



## LellyLupin

Thanks Fifi xx


----------



## MJ1

Oh dear Lesley, I am so sorry to her the sad news about Sally    awful for you. Chin up hun..
Re characteristics, see below:-

Age                      body type              education
Ethnicity            eye colour              profession
Height                hair colour              hobbies
BMI < 30              skin tone                allergies
Family history of carcinoma, heart disease and whether the donor has proven fertility will also be given.

Hope that you have a better day :0)
MJ1 xxxxx


----------



## RachelMaria

Lesley - so sorry honey - must have been awful


----------



## Sushi Lover

Morning girls,

*Cornwall*... sending you big hugs hun. Sorry to hear this cycle wasn't successful. I hope you manage to get some much needed rest and recoperation before your next try.

*Fififi.*.. hiya hun, how are you? Any decisions re DE?

*Lesley*.... Your poor Mum, she really is having a tough time of it. In answer to your question about sibling/partner... I would clear my partner's name. Couldn't stand living with it and keeping quiet. You really have a lot on your plate lovie. Oh no... I've just read your later post about Sally.. that is so sad   Fifi is right what she said... well put. You cared for Sally so well and were always there for her when she needed you... she would have known that all the way along. At least that minx Suzy seems alright. Goodness.. nothing is easy. Your life is tough going at the moment.. Sending you a big hug. 

*MJ1*.... Glad your appt went fine regarding DE. Do they give you an idea of the waiting time as this stage?

*Deb.*... it's horrid thinking about who will look after us in old age isn't it? It hadn't crossed my mind until all this treatment started. It's not mean at all to be a little bit selfish at times. It sounds as if your whole life is being taken up with doing things for others at the moment.. make some time for you. It's so important for you to keep the appt at Serum after the snow cancelled the last one. You should still go and let your sister take on some of the load instead. I'm sure going on the train isn't such a hardship?

Hello to *Hopeful, JAH *and *Roxy*... hope you are all well.

*AFM*... EC was yesterday and they managed to retrieve 20 eggs! I know, I can't quite believe it either. That's more than the previous two times put together!! I'm now waiting for the dreaded call about fertilization rates overnight.. I hate this bit...

xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

I can't quite believe it...  17 have fertilised!  So relieved.

Trying to get ahead of myself and be too excited though.  Such a long way to go as we all know.  Small steps.

They go into the EEVA machine now and we'll see how they progress

xxx


----------



## MJ1

Kirsty!!!!!!!!!!!     oh wow!! 20 and 17 fertilised, go girl!! so exciting... 
Wait list times, no def have been told 6-9 months for white caucasian, so sit back and forget about it...hmm if only we could.
MJ xx


----------



## Moominmum

Quick one.

*Lesley*: so sorry to hear about Sally. Glad your mum is back home now though. You seem to have a lot thrown at you but I believe that soon enough you will get something good back.  

*Kirsty*: wow, how exciting! And now the EEVA machine - how long does it take for you to get the result from that? Oh so so excited for you - woohoo!    What do you think the difference has been between the tx so far?

 to all.

Moominmum


----------



## fififi

kirsty - that's amazing news - wow!!!      
Really hope the good news continues for you

- what changes had you/the clinic made up to this point?

lesley - thinking of you     
PS. I think you want to clear your DP's name as it's obviously upsetting you. But equally is there a way of minimising the hurt it's going to bring to your sister? You are too kind a person to willingly do something that will cause pain to someone else unless it's really necessary so I'm sure if you do say something it's because you need to. A falling out will eventually heal over - may take many years but ultimately you're related so some contact will be resumed even if you don't ever make it as friends again. I guess you need to decide which senario is causing/will cause the most hurt for all the people involved. If you can talk with DP and let him know that you're not revealing the truth because you're concerned about the hurt it'd bring your sister would that help at all?

mj1 - hmmmnnn very useful advice to "sit back and forget about it" not !!!! Hopefully time will pass quicker once you're through the first few weeks of waiting. (Thanks for PM x)

deb - I agree with others and think you should prioritise yourself and go to your serum appointment as planned. Yes, it's a faff for your sister to go by train with your mum but not impossible and if you'd been unable to get that time of work or something that's what she'd have had to have done. Know that normally you do those hospital trips but this time its not possible and actually there is someone else who can do it for you and is theoretically as capable. Hard to say "no" but sometimes we need to     

AFM nothing to report at present - pretty convinced we'll head for DE route once know my body is still capable of carrying baby and not too cyst/polyp ridden to cause issues even with DE

Hi & hugs to all


----------



## Sushi Lover

Thanks so much for following my journey girls and for all the support and good wishes.

It's amazing that this time around I've produced more eggs than in the two previous cycles put together.  So what's different... I added more supplements for sure....  Omega 3, L'arginine, high strength vit D, C, B complex...  also the big one that we are not sure about DHEA.  I gave myself 3 months for these additional supplements to get into my body and also to rest my ovaries and body in general.  I think the break was the most beneficial thing of all to be honest.  It's so tempting to rush back into another cycle after a BFN..  the animal instinct kicks in.  But I believe that did more harm than good in my previous cycle.  There was also a difference in my stimulation drugs..  Gonal F as oppose to Menopur and Fostimon.  

I'll get an update from the EEVA machine on Thursday.

Interesting point actually...  I spoke to the embryologist who said they are seeing incredible things with the EEVA imaging.  For example, an embryo on day 3 that looked excellent in terms of cell structure, shell etc., when they viewed the 24/7 imagery it had taken a rather bizarre journey in getting to that point.  He described it as abnormal in the way that it formed, and therefore, unlikely to survive.  Whereas slower growing embryos that looked good/average on day 3 showed a more normal formation process.  He said that sometimes the 'snapshot' view an embryologist can have everyday on viewing them, does not always tell the whole story, which EEVA can do.  It doesn't miss a second of the formation and growing process which the embryologists can then look back on and help makes an assessment (together with EEVA) on which ones to transfer.

There are three machines in the country...  CRM in London, then one in Liverpool and one in Scotland I believe.  I'll keep you updated on the progress.  We could learn an awful lot more about our 40+ eggs using this technology.  It's a whole lot cheaper than genetic testing.

x


----------



## LellyLupin

Wow Kirsty 20 eggs and 17 fertilised that is fantastic    There has got to be a baby or two amongst that lot.   You might get some to freeze too!  I will be so interested in what the EEVA machine shows.  I just read out what the embrolygist said to DP and he actually listened    Good luck sweetie you so deserve a mini Kirsty xx

Thanks for the info on DE criteria MJ, thats much more detailed than I though it would be.  I bet you can't wait for the 6/9 months wait to be over.  Sending you lots of DE  

On the sibling fall out front I really am in a dilemma.  What has happened in a nutshell is 7 years ago my DP gave my Brother in Law a job in the company we both worked for at the time.  From day one my BIL got into trouble, from getting a speeding ticket in the works van and tearing the page out of the log book to cover it up, to denying he had dropped a very expensive piece of kit off the forklift until DP told him he had him on CCTV. DP has had to bail him out several times putting his own job at risk (and because I begged him to as I knew the company wanted to sack my BIL and I know my sister would then lose her house).  BIL had obviously been telling my sister a pack of lies, as every time I saw her at Mums she would have some sarcastic comment to make about DP, and how badly done to my BIL was at work.  Then a year and a half ago she was having another dig at DP, so I told her the truth about my BIL, not in a nasty way I just told her the facts.  All about his recorded warnings how DP had put his own job at risk to save his neck etc, and from that day to this she hasn't spoken to me.  Also my two nieces who I have done a lot for won't speak to me either.  Its causing a lot of flack in the family as when Mam goes into hospital, it makes it a nightmare for my other two siblings to co-ordinate visits etc. Also at Christmas Mam now goes away because she doesn't want to chose between us, which is really upsetting for us all.  Both my DP and I know that my BIL has been stealing from work, we could blow the whistle and he would get the sack which would clear DPs name  (he has now moved to a new job elsewhere), BUT if I did that my sister would lose her house.  So I feel I am in catch 22, I know BIL is a liar but to prove it my sister would pay a heavy price.  I swing between absolute anger at my BIL for creating this rift and fury at the way my sister is treating us, to pity that if I did try to prove it she would suffer.  My loyalties are all over the place as I have known my BIL since I was 10 and had always thought of him as a brother (not anymore),  and obviously I love my sister,  but I also love DP and he is totally innocent here.  Any thoughts anyone?

Thanks for all your support with regards to Sally,  I think its sunk in now, we've had a little cry today and even DP has been upset.  I have found a really lovely picture of her that I am going to get framed for Janet.  I really miss her,  she was such a little lady and so dignified for a horse (she would never poo outside TMI I know).  As for Suzy I think shes bruised her ribs as she yelped when DP tried to pick her up,  but apart from that she seems OK.  I also spoke to Mam today she is out of hospital and feeling a lot better so maybe things with get better from now on. 

Much love to you all xx


----------



## fififi

lesley - yup, your dilemma is complicated alright. Too tired to think right now but will send some thoughts tomorrow. Few hugs for now    

kirsty - so amazed with your little egg factory, and really jealous of the EEVA machine. I definitely think you've made a good decision to go to CRM. Really hoping this is the time for lots of little yous     

And now for something that's bothering me - do you think I should decrease my DHEA dosage?!!!!      
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/281/5/a/bearded_lady_2_by_dialandis-d30awly.jpg

/links


----------



## Moominmum

*Lesley*: wow, what a complicated one! Hmm you are surely tested all the time but only because you are strong and can take it. Do not have any advice at the mo - needs thinking about.

*Kirsty*: so so interesting with what you said about the EEVA machine and what it can spot. I am sure it makes a huge difference for us 40+and I guess that if we have another tx it would have to go that route.

AFM, being on this thread has made me appreciate what I do have and I am coping better at the mo. It only gets a bit tough when I mix with the other mums/families who most of them have a no 2 and I get reminded of what I wish I could have (not over yet though!). But for DS's sake I cannot really avoid these situations and currently we are in "birthday parties" season so it means once or twice every weekend.

On another note, we are on our way to Sweden to visit family and friends and currently enjoying on-flight WiFi!


----------



## cornwall

Hi everyone,

I will start with a 'wow'! for Kirsty at the number of eggs. I'm really interested to learn about your EEVA results Kirsty and I hope they help you get your BFP  

Lesley: very sorry to hear about Sally. Regarding your family dilemma, my advice would be to leave things as they are. If your BIL has been moved to a different place then your DP does not need to get involved any more. I'm sure your BIL will eventually get caught out and hopefully your sister will then realise what's been going on. I don't think you would ever forgive yourself if they lost their home due to your whistleblowing. It is awful when there's a rift in the family like that. It's a lesson to all of us that doing a favour for a family member (getting them a job for example) often isn't a good decision in the long term. I hope your mum continues to feel better.  

Moomin: have a lovely time in Sweden.

Hope everyone else is coping with our strange weather. I had to cope with hail storms, snow, gales and sunshine yesterday. Today it's just sunny and very windy.


----------



## Sushi Lover

Morning girls,

Firstly, you aren't going to believe this but the EEVA machine has bloody broken overnight!!! How's my luck? I'm disappointed, but it obviously wasn't meant to be on this occasion. I was so hoping to get some additional information for us all to use. So sorry ladies. On the plus side my embryos are still ok.... phew. I thought for one horrible minute he was going to say the machine broke and they all perished. Made me shiver. All 17 are still going ... amazingly. 14 are good to excellent and 3 are average. All 2, 3, 4 or 5 cells. Looking to go to blastocyst for transfer on Sat. Eeeek.

*Lesley*... thanks for your lovely words as always. Sorry the EEVA machine can't provide some valuable info for you going forward  So annoyed. Wow, what a quandary with your BIL ...he sounds like a complete loose cannon. I would be tempted to put him straight in hot water!! But Cornwall is right.. you wouldn't forgive yourself if they lost their home hun. Unfortunately though, I think he will get caught out in the end, as a liar and a thief.... but you will feel secure in the knowledge it was nothing to do with you. What goes around comes around. It is sad, but your sis knows the truth deep down.. and that's why she's lashing out and ignoring you. It's a shame your nieces can't see the truth. I'd feel better in that you've cleared DP's name with her and given her home truths about her husband. She'll realise what a nasty piece of work he is at some stage. Let her reach that decision alone... and sadly, the price that comes with it. That's lovely about the picture of Sally for Janet... she'll love that. Glad your Mum is feeling better... I hope your luck changes a bit now.

*Fififi*....OMG... is that photo for real?!  Thanks for the positive vibes!

*Moomin.*... Enjoy Sweden! WiFi on flight?! That's a new one on me.

*Cornwall*..... Thanks for your kind wishes. I'm still in shock about the number of eggs. I'm wondering if this is down to DHEA? How are you doing hun?

xxx


----------



## artist_mum

Gosh things move fast on here!

*fififi * Your pic really made me laugh.  Keep taking the tablets! Hope you get the all clear for DE as and when that is right for you and your body. It is a low pressure route in many ways (especially time) if you can accept the donor side of things. Wishing you well with it.

*lesley* So sorry to hear about your horse, that's really hard, although good you didn't have to prolong things from her point of view. And lucky that Suzy was OK. You really have had a time of it.. Good to hear your mum is out again at the moment, hope she does get well this time and not back in again. Big  and well done for getting through it all. As for the situation with your BIL, well, gosh that is so complex. Hard to deal with and as you say, very divisive within your family - how awful. Families can be so difficult at times, I hope you find the right solution for YOU and your man, i think that is the most important thing.

*kirsty* Have been seeing your progress which is amazing and although sorry to read about the EEVA machine, well , you seem to have done so well for eggs that hopefully that just won't be an issue. Just in case I don't post again before then, wishing you calm and a really good transfer that works for you and your partner this time round. All the very best

*moomim* happy hols  (trendy gal with your inflight wifi )

*cornwall* hi  Hope things are going OK with you Yes, the weather is most bizarre - today, here: hail, sunshine, rain and b****y cold!

*mj1* Good news that you have done the counselling and on to the wait list. That's good you got a chance to really talk it through and consider things - I don't think we really did that, well just between the 2 of us so I think it's lucky to do that bit with someone qualified like that. Really hope your match comes up soon

hi to *hopeful, debs, rachelmaria* Hope you are all doing OK

AFM Had my decapeptyl injection yesterday, hrt patches start 15th Feb so getting the body in prep now! Am doing a lot this time that i didn't do last time including acupuncture & immunes testing so we do pray that it will be enough. Like Kirsty I was not sure whether it's ok to stay on here? Let me know if OK to post even if not so often..

Roxy xx


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## Moominmum

Just a very quick one.

*Roxy*: don't you dare leaving us!  

Talking straight for my heart - although I am a bit confused as to what my/our next step is I love hearing everyone else's progress. Being totally selfish I think it also helps me to hear your stories and thoughts whilst I trying to sort my mind up.

Oh and *Lesley*: I think I agree with the advice you've been given already. Your BIL cannot go on forever and bad people get caught eventually. It is just frustrating whilst waiting for it... But I don't think that you deep down want to be the cause of it as you are doubting... But I don't envy you for being in this situation.  

   to all!


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## Sushi Lover

Morning ladies,

*Roxy*... please stay! We've all been through so much 'together' on here it's good to hear what everyone is up to. Thanks for your good wishes for my transfer.

How is everyone else doing today?

I'm waiting for my daily embryo update call... it never gets any easier!

xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Can I ask for some advice please ladies?

My embryos are still all going well.  16 are good - excellent quality now and 1 is poor (ahhh).

My transfer is Saturday.  The dilemma is how many should I have transferred?  The clinic are pushing me into 2 blastocysts if they are of excellent quality (we'll know more Sat morning).  But I still think my age is against me and the genetic quality may still be poor ...  so am thinking of asking for 3 to be transferred.  They will ultimately go with my final decision.

DP is terrified at the thought of triplets, but I realistically cannot see that happening considering all my previous failed attempts...  I do admit I haven't got to this stage before so it's different in that way.  We don't have a lot to base it on.  Comparing a cycle that involved a 2 day transfer of 4 cell embryos is quite different.

Sigh...  I really am in a quandary....  do I go with Mr Forman's strong recommendation of 2?  Or trust my own instincts and go for 3?  I'm not sure if I'm the right person to make the decision as I want it to work so much and this could be clouding my decision and make me think irrationally.

Help!  xx


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## RachelMaria

Hi Kirsty

An absolute dilema honey! I would say go with your gut - if all three little darlings stick then that was meant to be and hubby will just habe to get used to some quick nappy changing!  Seriously - I know there are concerns over multiple births, but you would be monitored very closely.  When in doubt the only thing to trust is your instinct xxx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hi Rachel,

Thanks for your response.  I suppose there is a worry that if (big if) three take, there could be an issue with mental and physical development as with natural multiple births...  health problems for the mother as well.  But maybe I shouldn't think too far ahead and cross each bridge as I come to it.  I remember my last consultant saying that if three do implant they can inject a salt solution into one of the sacs to stop it growing!!  I seriously can't think of anything worse, sounds awful doesn't it ?   Sacrifice one to help the other two thrive.  I really am jumping ahead here though.  

I will go with my instinct on Saturday morning once I know the quality of the blastocysts.

xx


----------



## Jammy J

Hi Kirsty, you have to go with your gut feel.  Afm, I had 4 blasts and didn't want to leave one behind so had all four transferred. I figure what will be will be but as others have said earlier there are high odds of resulting in more than twins at over 40. 
Good luck with what you decide xx


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## fififi

Kirsty firstly that's amazing news about embryo development though obviously shame the monitoring machine broke - bet your stomach did a flip hearing that but thank goodness it didn't affect your embies.

I'm going to be controversial and go with the consultant on only having 2 put back if they stay high quality. Reasons are firstly that your success rate with a high grade blast increase to 30-40% each so you will be in great position there. 
You run higher risks with multiple pg - it is pretty common that at least one won't make it to birth & depending on when he/she stops growing you risk losing the other healthy one(s) too. From experience I can tell you that was a million times harder to cope with than 3 years of BFNs.
Another huge positive of the position you are currently in is that if those embies stay high grade you can freeze them. A fresh cycle plus a FET cycle give you same chances of baby without the high multiple risk.
That said was is important is that you feel you've done what is right for you - you don't want to be looking back in two weeks time feeling that the choice you made was forced upon you. It's a hard one as there is no definite "right" answer just 101 possibilities. Will be thinking of you lots and hoping that this is your time        


Roxy - definitely think you need to stay with us loons for longer. Just knowing others in similar position to me are moving forward is help and equally once someone does get the dream I will be so pleased for them it will help me regain confidence that there's a reason I'm here and a possibility that all is not lost.

Hugs to everyone else - will try & do proper post over weekend. Have got no use of most of my fingers currently due to nasty flare up with my Raynauds - not good & very, very painful!


----------



## Moominmum

Hi *Kirsty*: that's a tough one! Is the quality ranking the "usual" one, in other words, do you have any more information about the embies? I understand that the embryologists can see "other things" sometimes... Sorry for my non-precise and unmedical lingo but I think you get my point 

Fififi is right about the FET possibility. Do have that in mind. But I would defo ask for more information about the embies. I am sure they can see something.

Anyway, great news about the embies so well done!


----------



## MJ1

Hi Ladies,

Kirsty, I have to agree with Fififi here, if they are good blasts then great they have a good chance. In my experience we had 11, 8 fertilise and by day three still six very strong. When I got to the clinic for day 5 transfer I expected them to all be grade 1 blast..... silly me.... but anyway I had 1 good but not quite blast so could not grade, and 2 morulas. The other three were weaker. So I did have three put back. The advice from the consultant was, if you want to take a risk put 2 back, but if not then just the one. So I said what will you do with the other one and he said it will possibly die. So rather than leave it behind we put it in too. I was very scared but alas I needn't have worried ;0( the other 3 didn't progress therefore were not viable to freeze. So although  I had three put back they were slow and low grade so the risk was minimised. In your case if they are strong blasts and graded well I would stick with just two. Wishing you all the luck, dust and hugs for Saturday and will be thinking of you :0)

Roxy, stay put please, I love the loons we are on this page as Fififi put so well :0) I am so glad that I found this page, you girls are the best!

Lesley, hmm the BIL situation sounds a flippin nightmare, so awful for you, but like the ladies have said. It will alll come out eventually and if you do tell it could have the worst consequences.. so sorry hun. How is Mum?

Jah1, how are you, all ok? when is your OTD?

Moominmum, enjoy Sweden and the break

Cornwall, how are you?

AFM, well AF is looming, have stomach and backache, so this month is out..... ho hum let's hope we can climb that list fast.....

Have a good weekend all and enjoy.

MJ1 xxxxx


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## Moominmum

Actually *Kirsty*, I think it was mentioned in this thread before but isn't there data suggesting that you are increasing your chances with 2 embies put back (compared to 1) but that there is not much increase of chance with 3 embies instead of 2? Hmm, can't remember but I think it was something along that line although I can't remember why...


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## LellyLupin

Kirsty I agree with Fifi too, you are going to have a lot to freeze, so putting two back seems like the sensible iodea, unless you could cope with triplets?   I am still flabergasted at how many you got and all so good too, what do you think has caused you to have so many and so good I need the recipe      You are making me want to try again    Here is some   for the twins/triplets.  Anyway if you have the 3 put back and they all take and you can't cope, I'll take one off you for free    Good Luck sweetie xx  Moomin my consultant said the very same thing to me about chances xx

Roxy don't you even think of leaving here, of course we all want to know how you get on, it inspires the rest of us and like Kirsty says we've been through a lot together    How are the wedding plans going, or have you put it on hold  till you have your treatment?

Thanks for your advice on the BIL situation girls, I think you are right I just couldn't do that to my sister, despite the fact that she doesn't care about how she is treating me and DP  .  The situation does weigh heavily on me and I just want everything back to normal, but I guess it never will be.  I am so ashamed of my BIL I really thought he was better than this. I can honestly say  I will NEVER EVER ask DP to give someone a job again I have learnt my lesson.  As Judge Judy always says 'no good deed goes unpunished' never a truer word said shes a wise woman!

Thanks for you condolences about Sally, I must say I am really missing her, and seeing her empty stable tonight was very hard.  Both DP and I filled up when we went to muck out, I was surprised he thought so much of her bless him.  Toby seems to have got used to the situation already and has stopped shouting for her which is good.  

Mum is fine thanks MJ it was her birthday yesterday and she sounded quite chipper when I rang her.  They have given her a new inhaler which has a preventative in it and some steroids, I am praying she won't be back in anytime soon, thanks for asking xx  Just got the dreaded Af myself too, silly really but I keep hoping by some miracle I will fall naturally though I know it can't happen  

Love to Rachel, Cornwall, JAH and anyone else I haven't mentioned, thank God for you girls I seem to run everything past you because I know I get the best advice, I truly do appreciate you all xx


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## Sushi Lover

Thank you so much for all the varied views re the number of embryos to transfer. I really appreciate all the wise words you girls have given me.

I think to err on the side of caution it's probably better to transfer two... as long as they are of high quality. I don't want to risk losing healthy ones if the third stops growing or causes problems. I can always freeze the others for a FET at another time if need be as a few of you have said. If they are of average quality I will probably go for the three. Let's see what Mr Forman says about the quality tomorrow morning and we'll go from there.

Thanks *Rachel, Fifi, JAH, Moomin, MJ, Lesley*.... you ladies are a mine of information. I'm so lucky to have you all to turn to.

xxx


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## fififi

kirsty - try to switch your mind off today and relax lots so you're all ready for tomorrow's ET. Until you're at the clinic a final decision cannot be made so for now you need do no more pondering!!!
Am all excited for you - like Lesley your fab news is making me want to have tx again too (if only I could get even close to that many eggs to create fab embryos) - will be thinking of you lots and sending you calm thoughts


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## Sushi Lover

*Lesley*.... I would quite happily hand one of the triplets over to you hun! haha. Honestly Les, I'm flabbergasted as well.. after my poor response in the last cycle they told me this was probably how my body would behave now and I could do nothing to change it. Then Mr Forman put me on the DHEA and this is the result! I do know that it doesn't necessarily mean the genetics have improved (as we know, this is impossible), but at least it means we have more to choose from and it's the first time my embryos have reached this stage, so I must have done something right! The development of the embryos has improved. The rest/relaxation I had helped, for sure. I was doing back-to-back cycles last year. Plus the added supplements and I really do think the DHEA has had a positive effect. One other thing... I'm a lot more relaxed and pragmatic about it this time as well. Not nearly as stressed and worried as before. I think this has helped.

*Moomin*... thanks for the info re data that having three transferred doesn't actually increase your chances.. that helps me decide as well. The embryologist explained that the cell division is a lot more uniform this time around and is moving along as the correct pace. Before, my cell division was a bit erratic and wasn't a stable progression (2 cells one day... then jumped to 7 the next for example). They want to see 2, 4, 8, 16, then morula develop at a even progression on set days. Also the shape of the cells have a smoother outline. Mine have never looked liked getting to blastocyst in the past.. the development slowed down after 2 or 3 days. Whereas this time they are moving along at a faster pace. They cannot get an idea of quality at morula stage because it's a blurry jumble of cells. So once we get to blasto tomorrow and see the liquid pocket in the middle of the cells then the embryologist can make a better assessment then.

*MJ*.... I think I'll see what the quality is tomorrow morning once they reach blasto stage (hopefully).. and decide then. Thanks for the luck, dust, and hugs!! Sorry to hear AF is looming.. it's sad every month isn't it? I hope your names get to the top of the list fast.

*Fifif*i.... thanks for being controversial! Everything you've said makes perfect sense. As Les would say "you are wise soul" ! thanks for the prayers and positive vibes. I had to google Raynaulds! Ouch looks and sounds painful you poor thing. What treatment do you have for that? Take care.

*JAH.*.. how is the 2WW going ? When's your OTD? Thanks for your advice. I'm hoping I can freeze some rather than leaving them behind. I just couldn't bear to do that either.

xxx


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## Sushi Lover

Thanks *Fifi,* our posts crossed over then.

I'm at work so have things to keep me occupied, but not busy, which is good. Have had lots of rest and early nights this week so feeling quite well. Going for an early Thai dinner tonight with DP and need to be at the clinic for 10am tomorrow. I'm excited, but strangely relaxed! I feel I have a totally different mindset this time around... weird, but has definitely helped.

I hope this gives you, Les, Moomin and all the other girls reading this chat the inspiration to try again. I'm living proof that not all cycles are the same and you can make improvements.. even when over 40. 

xxx


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## Jammy J

Kirsty, good luck for your transfer and decision making, will be thinking of you. 


I am booked in for blood test on Monday so all will be revealed then.  No symptoms at all though as am convinced it hasn't worked, again! Xxx


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## LellyLupin

This is so exciting Kirst sending you a ton of    and      and    for tomorrow.  I am coming to see you consultant so you brtter warn him    Seriously take it easy tonight and rest up after all you are getting pregnant tomorrow xx

JAH good luck sweetie xxx

Hello to everyone else


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## Sushi Lover

No transfer today girls.  Arrgghhh! Drove all the way to London from Essex was sent straight home again.

We have 9 embryos now. 7 are morulas  and 2 are early blasts.  Mr Forman wants to wait until tomorrow to see which ones are the strongest before doing a 6 day transfer. At the moment it's too difficult to say which are the best quality ones. I have to trust the consultant on this one, even though I'm disappointed not to have a ET today. They've slowed down a little in their development, which I'm now panicking about! What about if I get up there tomorrow and  they've all stopped growing?!  

Hope everyone else is ok xxx


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## artist_mum

Gosh *kirsty* it's a day by day journey for you right now! Well, it seems to me that your consultant is really pulling out all the stops, making sure he does the absolute best for you... otherwise he would have just gone ahead with them today. So it's a good thing to get to those 'right' 2 embies. I feel excited for you. Altho it must be tortuous all this waiting . But you know, you have *9*, that's really loads! Hope you can find some relaxation today, good that it is a saturday so no reason to work or stress, just get yourself good and ready to embrace them tomorrow. Praying for you.

*moominmum* thanks for the lovely comment about staying on here. And *fififi* too, thanks for including me in the loon section, I feel honoured .

*lesley* thanks you too for encouraging me to keep posting on here, it is nice to know you are all on here. Good to hear your mum has some meds that hopefully will keep her going much better, and sounds like she was good and positive on her b'day - which is great. Yes, the wedding plans are just on hold really with so much going on and wanting to keep stress to a minimum. Maybe September? We'll see. We are both quite casual and not planning an enormous affair anyway, so we'll take it as it comes.

*jah* Wishing you a calm weekend, and a  for Monday and your testing. Many people on here have become pregnant with zero symptoms, hang on in there... 

*mj1* AF..  It never feels like a good thing until those times you need it to come in order to start treatment! but you are on the list now, so I guess it's just a matter of time. hope you have a nice weekend anyway, chocolate is always an option 

hopeful, debs, rachelmaria, cornwall - have a great weekend. And anyone else I haven't mentioned...

Roxy xx


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## Sushi Lover

Thanks for the support Roxy. I'm terrified waiting until day 6 I have to say!! I just pray overnight we'll have at least two good blastocysts by tomorrow. So frustrating that most of them are still morulas. I'm hoping the little slowdown in development isn't too much to worry about. He thinks some of these will still produce good blasts and the early blasts today aren't necessarily the strongest ones. Difficult to choose between the 9. So we have another long day and night ahead of us! At least it's Saturday as you've said. A nice easy day. It was disappointing and frustrating as I was all stripped off and in my gown plus DP in scrubs when they said it wouldn't happen today. So close! We went to Starbucks instead... Decaf Cappuccino and cheese/marmite panini as a great to console ourselves! 

How are you hun?  What's the latest?

xxx


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## HavingitAll

Hiya girls, may I join?

I'm 41 and have just had an ERPC a week ago after our first IVF ended in a missed miscarriage at 8 weeks. We're so impressed that we did as well as we did in our first IVF: 5 mature eggs with 2 high quality embryos to transfer on day 3 and are keen to begin our next cycle. We'd only used the usual supplements and accupuncture pre- and post-transfer. Complete beginners!

Kirsty, I am amazed by your number of eggs and fertilisation! We're definitely going to try more supplements asap. I hope that your transfer goes well tomorrow - how stressful to have to wait another day!

Do any other ladies have stories of improvements with supplements? or other ideas?

Baby dust to all



HavingitAll


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## meal2

Hi everyone
Wondering where to go next.  Last fifth (well 4th proper go) ended in bfn.  Looking at Serum, Reprofit and anywhere else you lovely ladies can recommend for a maximum of 2 more goes as you have to know when to call it quits and where to spend your money wisely.  Serum and Reprofit attracted me back in 2010, probably more Reprofit as there's just something but I don't know what that puts me off Serum (maybe the hidden C thing) but perhaps still worth a consultation.  Pedieos have been lovely but unless you are really pushy I don't think you quite get the full service and I'm not really pushy!  Best of luck to everyone.
Meal
PS Has anyone had a transfer on cd12?  Still strikes me as odd that I did?


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## Chandlerino

Meal2

I've been to Reprofit for an OE cycle and had a email consultation with Penny. We did the hidden c test and the 25 day antibiotics last summer.

Reprofit were better than the UK clinic I cycled with but can't help my gut feeling that I should have gone to Penny. She seems to have more sucess both with OE and DE from what I have seen on threads on here. I know that maybe we're not seeing everyone who has been to her but still the amount of DE BFPs seems to be more. The only thing that pushed me towards Reprofit was not having to go for a consultation and hysto.

If I had the finances for another cycle I would be off to Greece.

Chand xx

Chand xx


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## Jammy J

Ladies, I have just had my 2nd oe cycle with penny and cannot recommend her enough. She is hot on the hidden c but will only recommend a hysto if she sees something abnormal in your normal scan. She certainly doesn't encourage you to spend your money, it's more the opposite. I was going to have all my immense tested but she keeps saying I don't need it and to save my money, she says she knows I have immune issues and treats accordingly. 
Good luck to you all xx


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## LellyLupin

Wow Kirsty this is a rollercoaster ride, stop worrying you still have 9 good ones left, and thats more than you've ever had to choose from before so its still fantastic   Can't wait for you to be PUPO so we can all monitor you (no pressure there then).  Hope you manage to have a good sleep tonight and don't stay up worrying xx

Roxy I still haven't planned my wedding, and I'm still undecided as to what I am doing with treatment.  I would like to try turkey baster style if could get DPs sperm washed somewhere but they only seem to do it if you are trying IUI its so frustrating.  

Hi Havingitall of course you can join us the more the merrier, sounds like you did really well on your first go thats terrific, I bet you can't wait to try again, I wish you lots of luck and babydust  xx

Hi Meal it sounds to me like Serum is the place to go, I would if only I could get DP to go xx

Hi Chandlerino hope you are ok xx


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## MJ1

Hi Ladies,

*Kirsty,* dear dear, what a palaver. .. have been to London shopping today and said to DP as soon as we got home, I have got to check and see how Kirsty is, then I read your post.. oh well at least tomorrow will happen so good luck and will be sending all the baby dust I can your way. 
*
Roxy*, hmm well  has been looming and made an appearance earlier so that is over for another month...

*Havingitall,* welcome to the club... we are all relatively sane on here 

Hi to everyone else, off to get a water bottle and chill....

MJ1 xx


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## meal2

Thanks Chand. JAH and Lesley - will look again at Serum.  Best wishes to everyone.
Meal x


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## Minx52

Hi ladies, please can I join you all?

I've just had our first cycle - started bleeding 4 days before OTD, still waiting for full AF to kick in. 

I've been reading some of your posts, loads of really good advise and links to good pages, thanks! I have a follow up appointment with my consultant next Tuesday and have started a list of questions already. I can almost hear tick tock in my mind, but am rearing myself back in check, not wanting to rush into another cycle too quickly.

My last cycle was carried out at CRM, we had initial tests and scans with our consultant in Manchester, then went to London for collection and transfer. We thought everyone at CRM were professional - hopefully we'll be able to get good constructive feedback next week.

Havingitall - so sorry to hear your news  

Kirsty - good luck for tomorrow, hope all goes well and you get a number of frostiness too  

JAH - please can I ask who Penny is and what you recommend her for?

Minx x x


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## Coolish

*Meal2 *- I had heard so many good things about Serum, I've decided to give them a go. So far I've been really impressed. I tested positive for hidden C and we have just finished the ABs. I've had a telephone consultation so far with Peny and various emails. and I've got such a good feeling about her and the clinic. She just talked good sense and asked the right questions. I've just booked my consultation with them for the first week in March.

*Kirsty* - good luck with ET! Sounds like this cycle is going great!


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## Jammy J

Hi minx, Penny owns Serum Clinic in Athens and her husband is the embryologist and they are both so dedicated and work 24/7. (Apart from aug when they are closed for the whole month)x


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## Sushi Lover

Hello lovely ladies,

Welcome to Havingitall, Meal2 and Minx52...this really is a lovely chat forum.  All the girls are so supportive and friendly.  I find I can't do without it now!

Hi to Chand, Lesley, JAH, Cooljules, MJ, Moomin, Cornwall. Roxy, Hopeful, Debs, Rachel.... Hope I haven't missed anyone.

MJ... Bless you, that is so lovely.  Your DP must be wondering who the hell this stranger Kirsty is that eats a lot of sushi! Haha.

Lesley... Slept well, but woke up early and started thinking too much!

So, update from me.... I am now officially PUPO! Phew. What a long journey so far. Today we had 8 blasts to choose from.  5 were of average quality, 3 good. He gave us the choice of transferring 3  or 2 (grade BB1) and freezing the third (BB2)... But said the third had a less than 50% chance of surviving the thaw as 6 days frosties do not often result in success as a FET. 5 days is optimal really.  So we had to choose between transferring 3 today or transferring 2 and freezing the other, but putting the quality at risk for another time. The other 5 were not of a high enough quality to survive thawing at a later date. DP and I looked at one another and panicked!! We'd said in the car about transferring 2 (if high top quality) and freezing others,but didn't think it would mean risking the quality quite so substanitally at thaw process. Also, ours were 'good', but not 'high'. I asked DP what he thought and there was this awful silence for what seemed like minutes, but was seconds. Me, the consultant, embryologist, nurse all held our breath and stared at him! He was a bit freaked by it that's for sure. In the end they gave us some privacy to chat and we decided to just go for it. Mr Forman wasn't opposed to transferring the 3, he just left it to us. Arrggghhh.  So, I now have 3 blastocysts on board. Grades BB1 and 2. If they'd have been AA's then I'd already decided just 2. We are both happy with the decision and are giggling about triplets...  The chances of that are so slim. I asked about the percentages..and at CRM only one lady of over 40 has had triplets. Twins is more common, but still a long shot. I pray just one takes. We had embryo glue as well for extra stickiness! 10 days until my blood test or 12 for hpt. We can do either. Laying on sofa now. DP gone to Tesco for spag bol ingredients for dinner later. I have to go back tomorrow for intralipid infusion. I hope the snow doesn't hamper that journey!

Lots of love and thanks for all your support, advice, prays,hugs and positive vibes. I'll need you all even more in the next 2 weeks to keep me sane!

Sorry to not write many personals today. I hope everyone is snuggled up in the warm  Xxx


----------



## cornwall

Kirsty: congratulations on being PUPO! I would have gone with three too. DH and I joked about having triplets as well - I kept saying I was eating for 4 so needed extra chocolate  

Take it easy over the next 10/12 days.


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## MJ1

Hi Kirsty,

Oh wow honey!! how fabaroni and I am smiling reading your post. Funny you say about DP. I told him all about your dilemma and he too agreed at 2 if they were top grade blast, so see he does know all about you, he lives and breathes these pages with me too and I often read out the ladies posts, he is like one of us :0)
So what a decision for you and DP to take it reminded me of my transfer, you have the conversation on the way there and when you arrive, nothing goes as you thought it would. I know what you mean about triplets, me and DP had that thought too, we went to midnight mass over my 2 week wait as it was Christmas and got three little cardboard gold stars from the church and hung them from our Christmas tree for good luck. Oh well for us it wasn't meant to be but you have fab graded blasts and I am sending you all the luck and wishes that I could. Rest up and keep well. 
MJ1 xxxx


----------



## Chandlerino

Blimey Kirsty! What change did you have to your protocol to get 20 eggs!!!! Wishing you all the best for the 2ww.

I'm rubbish at personals so hello to everyone! No news from my end - trying naturally now until a miracle happens either BFP or I come into a large amount of money!


----------



## fififi

kirsty - hi there little Miss PUPO     ... big congrats and pleased that cycle all seems so positive for you, despite yesterday's transfer / costa cafe instead hic-cup!!! Did you find out whether the 2 BB embryos today were the ones that were blasts yesterday? Am pleased you were given advice by the clinic to go for 2 or 3 as ultimately that means there's a chance of triplets but they're figuring it's not especially high. Will be thinking of you lots over next few weeks and hoping with all my might that you'll be the first of us "original bfners" to get joyful news ... and then start an epidemic of good news for us all           

jah1 - will be thinking of you tomorrow and hoping you can't post for smiling          

Everyone else hope you've had nice weekends (moomimum are you still away?)

AFM: Feeling pretty low as AF has arrived 5 days early with big tummy pains - to make it worse my hands are still in agony due to Raynards flare up and only medication that can help cannot be used when TTC. As I'm having laproscopy & hysteroscopy next week (19th) that means this month is "out" so am going to check with consultant tomorrow to see if it would be okay to take the medication this month. Also feeling sad that it's my birthday on Weds and all I can think about is that being 43 justs decreases my baby chances even further, plus it was in theory going to mark the point at which we stopped TX and started to regain a life again. Not able to move on from tx right now and just full of sadness that all the hopes, dreams and miracles of the last 4 years have amounted to nothing.
Sorry for "woe is me post" - just need to tell someone how I feel. DH can't see the connection at all between me having a birthday and feeling cr*p about fact we still have no baby or pregnancy. (AF hormones & lack of chocolate in house not helping - even tried making triple strength Highlights hot chocolate but it still just tastes like the 40 calories it is!!!)


----------



## MJ1

Hugs Fififi, know how you feel. I turn 43 in August and also wonder why the last four years of trying have not resulted in the baby we so long for. Chin up Hun. We are all here for you 
Mj1 xxx


----------



## Minx52

Thanks JAH - been reading about Serum this afternoon, they have lots of really good feedback from 
Ladies on here, one to definitely think about! 

Kirsty - congratulations on being PUPO, so pleased for you and good luck    

Minx xx


----------



## Minx52

Fififi - I've, just eaten a packet of mini eggs.... I'd drop some off for you if I could. Those "pretend" choc drinks they just don't do it do they? 

Keep strong, enjoy your birthday week.... I know it easier to say this (seeing as get hung up on only having 2 months left of being 40). But it's only a number and you're only just turning 43, think of it as not another year, but just another few weeks further on in your journey


----------



## fififi

Thanks MJ & Minnx x


----------



## HavingitAll

conGrats Kirsty! U r PUPO!!!
Sending u sticky vibes and whatever u need.

Fififi 43 is a number. U can do it. Sounds like DH needs a little education as to why 43 feels so scary. Sometimes we do shelter our dh's too much - r u guilty? You aren't being silly, every digit Over 40 is hard for us TTC. We aren't born with an endless supply of eggs. But we know this and we just gotta deal with it.  That's why FF is so great - we can do it together. Hugs! 

HavingitAll


----------



## LellyLupin

Congratulations Kirsty heres hoping you are our first success story    Just sit back and relax now no fretting allowed  xx

Fifi sounds like you are having a mini crisis, I am coming up 46 so I know how you feel honey.  Try and clelebrate your birthday and put the baby thing to the back of your mind for the day (easier said than done I know  ) xx  And get some emergency chocolate in xx

MJ I wish DP would take an interest you are very lucky to have someone as keen as you are it makes all the differencexx

Minx Welcome aboard , do let us know what your consultant has to say, hopefully you won't get the old eggs blurb we all got and he will come up with something new and interesting  

Hello to everyone esle xx


----------



## deblovescats

hi guys
congrats kirsty on being PUPO!
good luck cooljules - i'll be following you! I'm now trying to book an initial consult end of Feb! Can't wait - want to get this journey undertaken! 
i had a bit of a blip day! good i've got my great sister for support!
had a lovely weekend - think it was a bit of a reaction then coming back to everything
had our spa break on friday - had swims in the lovely pool, had a facial and massage (very relaxing) and a pedicure! Then sat, went to look round St Pauls - with a two for one voucher! then to the matinee of 'Phantom' - beautfiul show, so emotional! Can't wait to see it again - might have to watch the film for a bit of fix!
back to work this morning, but hopefully on countdown to Athens
Deb


----------



## artist_mum

hi

*kirsty* Congrats my dear on being officially pupo! Wishing you relaxation and positive thoughts this next 2 weeks and more than anything that one or more of your 3 is getting snug in there and bedding in for the full 9 months. What a challenging time with the decision making on the spot.. i know that just feels quite surreal doesn't it?! Fantastic that your DP and you have made this choice together - all the very best wishes to you both. Don't take any chances will you? Rest up, chill out, think positive..... we are all with you  On my side, doing Ok but finding it difficult to say no to things, just had the skids this weekend plus a family 80th with all the politics involved there, then the skids were both up last night being sick after something they ate at their Auntie's. Just seems a lot at times and i really want to focus on our chances with our own kid to go with the skids! Any progress with your DP's kid?

*fifi* So sorry to hear about the raynauds flaring up, that just must be an extra thing you could do without - and so tricky if the drugs affect things, what a dilemma. Hopefully they will be able to give you some pain relief, i hope you feel better with it soon. And as for the birthday.. I completely get that one. It's hard. As the others have said, it is just a couple of weeks older than 2 weeks ago (!) but I know it just feels like a whole year more. I hope you have a change of feeling by wednesday and end up having a fab day.

*cooljules* good to hear you are booked in for March 

*jah* thinking of you today - all the best with that test x

*lesley* who'd have thought all those years ago that you would be here now looking for a way to wash sperm! The things we gals have to consider . Hope you find some clarity for going forward. Big 

*minx, meal, havingitall* - hi and welcome!

hiya to *debs, chandlerino, mj1, cornwall, moominum* gosh, there's a few of us on here! Wishing you all a good and fruitful week ahead and progress on your journeys 

AFM Had a busy weekend with skids here + a big family gathering on my side on sunday - seems like there is always something on so I'm trying to do my Zita West relaxation CD as much as poss and try to focus on quiet time to myself when I can. Have confirmed that I will go to ARGC at end of Feb to check immunes again and get prescriptions which will included clexane - has anyone on here had that? What is it like? I just realised it will prob be injections? Our FET date is 12 March so we have flights booked and I will start patches this friday. Not long now.. Oh, and another good thing, I got my exam result and it was OK so I'm happy about that 

 to everyone.

Roxy xx


----------



## cornwall

Roxy: congratulations on your exam result. I did a lot of my studying over the last few years and I know how hard it is when life is so full of everything. 

Hi to everyone else - no time for lots of personals right now but nice to know we all have each other for support.

Fifi: don't panic about being 43. I will be 50 next birthday and it's the first time I've really felt old  . Apparently 55 is now 'middle age' so we're all youngsters.


----------



## MJ1

Hi Ladies,

*Roxy*, Glad to hear that your exam result was good.  So you are booked in for 12th March, GOOD LUCK... re clexane, yes I was on that for my last cycle and yes it is injectons sadly...they are ok, leave the odd bruise, but we have all been there haven't we.. no side effects for me apart from that.

*Jah, * good luck today with testing 

*Kirsty*, hope that you got to the clinic okay for your intralipid today.

*Lesley*, ha ha DP sent you a  when I read out your message last night.. 

*Fififif,* hope that you are feeling better today, my  came full blown yesterday, can't remember how many times I re-filled the hot water bottle  but took *Roxy's* advice and had chocolate!

Love to everyone else
MJ1 xxxx


----------



## Coolish

*Roxy* - congrats on exam results! I've had Clexane on a couple of cycles. It's easy to inject but it does sting. Lots of people have lots of theories about how to reduce the stinging - ice, rubbing the area etc. I've found that getting the angle right and then slightly withdrawing as you inject seems to do the trick. I think if you just pump it in then it's the concentration in one place that makes it sting. I also saw a couple of people suggesting the anesthetic cream you can get over te counter to numb the area first.

*Fififi* - try not to let get age you down. I've never minded being my age, but I'm aware that it makes trying to get pregnant much more difficult. I think 43 is something to be celebrated - imagine what 43 was like when our parents were kids, or when our grandparents were kids. Things are so different now - we're not even classed as middle-ages anymore 

This talk of mini eggs is making me crave some choccie!


----------



## LellyLupin

Ha ha Rox you said it, still I never thought I'd have a problem conceiving along with the rest of us I am sure  .  I nearly dropped myself in it at work today when our lawyer was saying his wife couldn't decide whether to have kids or not.  When he said she was 38 I said she better get on with it and stop dallying or she may find shes missed the boat , he said you seem to know an awful lot about it and I nearly slipped up and told him about ivf - not a wise thing to do in my company!  Congrats on your exam results    Right there with you on the skids front, however my SD was so sweet to me yesterday I forgave all the drama having stepkids brings. She came up to me in the kitchen when I was washing up and gave me a big hug (she never hugs anyone willingly)  I was so touched, however I think DPs mum was a bit jealous!  Then DP was telling me she was hounding him to buy me some red roses and a Valentines card when they were out shopping.  I do love that kid sometimes I really wish she was mine.  They both make me so proud sometimes as they are both very polite and well mannered (thank god).  You must be so excited about your appointment I really hope you get your baby his time xx 

 to MJ's other half, I really meant what I said.  I'd love DP to be on board with me, it must be so great to have someone so supportive  you are v lucky MJ (best not tell him that bit  ).  

Debs it sounds like you had a great time at the spa and managed to relax and de-stress a bit.  I haven't got the time to go as I am so busy all the time, but tonight I did discover the revelation of false nails. My nails are always snapping up at the stables so when I was shopping I bought some that you glue on and they look fab, lets see how long they last, can't believe how easy they were to do and how cheap  .  Must remember to tell Mike tomorrow! 

Kirsty hope you are resting up and are feeling OK.

CoolJules/Cornwall you are right about middle age thing, its so very  different now, however I did feel very old the other day when I went to buy a new Cd to listen to in the car.  I hadn't heard of any of the bands in the top 20 and ended up buying a old classic rock album, I definitely felt old then  .  


Love to everyone else,  off to bed now us old timers need our beauty sleep - nite all xx


----------



## RachelMaria

Oh No - sore boobs again  - I dam well know what that means!  dam and blast..............................................

Hope everyone is OK today?


----------



## ajw

Hello Ladies,
Hope everyone is ok. Keeping my fingers crossed for Kirsty!    

After a biopsy showed precancerous cells I had my op on Jan 21st to remove a chunk of my cervix. The following 10 days waiting for the results were not the best... Anyway, finally the surgeon called and said they successfully removed all the pre-cancerous cells      So hopefully there will be no further obstacles in the way of my next cycle!!! They will test me every 6 months to be sure they don't come back, but at least they hadn't spread, so my cervix is still in a good enough state to carry a pregnancy.

No sex or exercise for a month is getting me down, but I'm trying to be patient  

The worst part is that I have to wait until I get my first clear smear (planned for April) before I can start to plan another cycle.   That seems soooo long! So I'm trying to use the time to get myself healthy and ready for a good one. 

The gyn is going to do a 'scratching' the month before my next cycle to help with implantation. Anyone had that done before?

Anyway, must go, as I'm meeting up with my Parisian Fertility Friends for dinner (we all met on this forum and now all do fertility yoga once a week together!)

Wishing everyone the best and thanks for all your supportive messages when I got my biopsy results. I was really gutted.

AJW


----------



## fififi

Evening everyone!

ajw - glad all precancerous cells now gone. I had big chunk of cervix cut out for same reason about 12 years ago now and still remember how long the wait for results felt and how impossible it was to think of anything else. Since then I've managed a pregnancy and had to be monitored quite closely in case cervix didn't cope but all was fine in the end plus it meant I had a scan every 2 weeks so more pre-baby photos than most the people I know put together!!! 
Frustrating to wait until April but it will come and at least when you do cycle you will know that all will be safe. The endometrium scratch is being trialled at lots of clinics now and shown to have good results so far. As part of my NK cell biopsy in Nov they did scratch as well and its benefits have been shown to last for roughly 3 cycles. Once I get to next cycle I'll definitely have scratch beforehand.
Hope you had fab dinner - sounds like you deserve night out    

Rachel Maria - how wierd so many of us with AF at moment ... we're obviously getting so friendly our cycles are overlapping!!! Hope you had better success with chocolate in your house than I did  

lesley - your SD sounds totally adorable am pleased that you've her in your life because she knows how fab you are. Hope things with your mum still okay and you're feeling little more positive  

mj, cornwall & cooljules - thanks for the positive comments. Hope all's okay with you. MJ glad you found chocolate!!!

roxy - glad exam result came back okay. You should be very proud of yourself coping with doing exams when you're also trying to move on with TX  
I too had clexane with last IVF cycle and having consulted Dr Google beforehand was really quite worried but in the end I actually found it easier than menopur injections and didn't get hardly any bruising despite not doing anything extra.
Exciting times ahead    

deblovescats - your weekend sounded wonderful I'm glad you had such a good time. Hopefully it won't be long until Athens   

kirsty - or should I say "Little Miss PUPO" !!! ... hope first few days have gone well and you're managing to relax and smile lots. Enjoy the feeling and especially the fact those little embies are very good ones. Thinking of you     

Have missed others out I'm sure, but not able to read back through anymore posts, sorry!!! Love & hugs to all missed or named    

AFM - little less emotional now AF coming to close and my hands almost back to normal (the elephant man look was truely gross and doctor ended up giving me morphine for the pain so I was one big blurr for most of the weekend!!!)
Off ice-skating for my birthday - with friend and our respective DD - hoping to relive my youth as had my 21st party at the very same ice-rink!!! It'll either be great fun or total disaster but so long as there's tinny music and few attractive ice coaches around I'll be happy  !!!


----------



## RachelMaria

I remember years ago I had a smear result that came back with pre cancerous cells - I had to go to hospital for an outpatient appointment and if I remember correctly they cut out the cells with a hot wire loop thing - really wasn't painful - the main thing I remember about the expeirence was that I had an aussie doctor - he asked if he could have a couple of students in to watch - I said I didn't mind - 12 - yes 12 students came in!  I think I made some wise crack about aussies not being able to count! - luckily I don't blush that easily!


----------



## Sushi Lover

Morning lovely ladies,

*Cornwall*... thanks so much. It was a tough choice between 2 or 3, but because it was day 6 and would have a slim chance of surviving the thaw, we decided to transfer all three at once and not go for freezing. Scary stuff!

*MJ*.... thanks!! Very fabaroni! Funny about your DP! Ahh that is so lovely about the 3 stars on the tree in church. What a great moment. I think it threw us when he said about the freezing process not being good for a 6 day embryo.. I never knew about this?! We just couldn't discard one and thought it had a better chance going back in now then risking the thaw process at a later date. I feel happy with the decision... all be it slightly terrified.

*Chand*.... I couldn't believe it either. I changed stim drugs to Gonal F and Cetrotide, took DHEA for 3 months and had a proper break (mentally and physically) from all treatment. The consultant thinks these 3 things together did the trick.

*Fififi*..... Thanks hun. Happy Birthday! I'm sorry you are feeling sad. You are really are going through the mill, bless you. How frustrating the only meds for your Raynards can't be used when TTC. There is always something. Don't forget that if you go down the DE route then age isn't a problem and ladies up to 50 conceive with donor eggs. Also you are only 43 so still have a few years with your own eggs. Re the ET...It was a tough choice I can tell you. He didn't say definitely* not* 3, but warned us of multiple births (as they always do)... so we figured the likelihood was very low in all three taking. I'd just be over the moon with one. Interesting from the 2 early blasts on day 5, only 1 looked good on day 6. Just goes to show doesn't it? The other best looking one was actually a morula on day 5, one of the early blasts didn't have an central cells when they looked on day 6(so could have implanted, got a BFP and been an empty sac when scanned). The third was also a morula on day 5, but the BB2.

*Minx52*... thanks very much for the fairy dust!

*HavingitAll*.... thanks so much. Everyone has just been so kind. I'll take all the sticky vibes you've got!

*Lesley*... thanks sweetie. I'm praying too. Trying to relax! At least having them transferred back later means the 2WW is only 10 days! Will you make a visit to London and see Mr Forman?

*Debs*.... thank you. Your day in London sounds fab! I hope your trip to Serum comes around very quickly. Did you sort out all the palaver with your Mum's hospital appt and your sister taking her on the train?

*Roxy*... many thanks! Very surreal. When we had to decide in the theatre it was almost as if the whole world stopped for a few seconds. I'm so pleased DP and I reached the same decision. It would have been awful to have some kind of mini row ! I'm resting as much as I can and looking after myself. It was my Grandad's 100th birthday yesterday so we drove to Dorset for his party! DP drove there and back (5 hours)... bless him. Normally we'd share the driving, but he wanted me to be as rested as poss. So I snuggled down the heated seat and ate jelly babies! There is always some kind of politics where families are involved. Goodness, sounds awful with both s.kids being up with food poisoning! No, no progress  Still waiting for court date and Izzy cannot be convinced to stay of her own accord and stand up to her mother. I had clexane in my last cycles to thin the blood and stops miscarriage. Easy to do and in a ready-to-go syringe. It does sting though... Cool jules is right. Ice cubes defo help. Congrats on exam result and roll on the 12th of March!

*ajw*.... keep EVERYTHING crossed!!! Fingers, legs and eyes please  I'm so pleased the op to remove your precancerous cells was successful. As you've said.. no obstacles now!

*Rachel*... sorry to hear your AF is about to arrive. It never gets any easier 

Hello to *Moomin*... hope all is well and your holiday to Sweden is enjoyable!

*AFM*... trying to rest as much as possible and not think about what's going on inside my womb!! Easier said than done. The snow was a bit of problem on Monday, but I made it to CRM for my intralipids ok... just took it slowly. Back at work today, but no stresses here this week so I'm quite chilled out. The tube journey this morning wasn't great, but at least I had a seat. Maybe they should start making badges that say "IVF Embryos On Board"  DP and I need to decide whether to book for blood test on the 19th or POAS on the 21st to find out the result. If we do it at home it will be together, but blood test will mean two days earlier, but I'll get a phonecall at work. 

xxx


----------



## MJ1

Hi Ladies,

Wow this thread is getting huge, one day out and I can't keep up 

*Kirsty*, glad that you had a nice chillish weekend and DP is doing his best to make you rest. I think we will all be living and breathing the next week with you and I so hope that you can break the cycle of AF and BFN's on here and be a mummy very soon. 

*Lesley*, how are you hun, hope that your Mum is on the medication now and the inhaler is doing what it needs to. I know I am very lucky to have my DP, took me a few years to find him but I got there in the end! 

*Fififif*, Hope that you enjoyed your ice skating trip and cheered up for your birthday, it is just a number&#8230;. Hope that your hands are feeling better too, life sucks when you can't even take the medication that you need 

*Cornwall* , How are you hun? 

*Rachelmaria,* Sorry to hear that AF is looming&#8230;. 

*AJW,* Glad all went ok with your op, sending you healing dust to recover quickly 

Hi to *Moomin, Chand, Roxy, Havingitall, Minx52, Debs*

AFM, not much to report , AF is finishing now and another month of trying looms &#8230;.. looking forward to Val day tomorrow, although it is another reminder I am not a Mum as I had EC on V day a couple of years ago and we were so excited, think I need to avoid V day and Christmas next time, too many memories stick when it is a memorable date 
Have a busy weekend lined up, Funeral on Friday, DP's uncle had a stroke and died  , out for dinner Sat for Valentines  and my Brothers Sunday for his belated birthday last week. Will see my lovely Nieces&#8230; 

Enjoy your week and weekend girls 
Take care
MJ1 xxxxx


----------



## artist_mum

many thanks for the exam congrats *cornwall, cooljules, mj1, lesley, fifi, kirsty and all*! I think those of us who give adult learning a go do often question our sanity when it gets to exam time... like 'why have I put myself through all this again' .

Also, huge thanks to those of you who've had the clexane and have passed on your experiences to me, I feel reassured (having never injected anything into myself before now). It really is wonderful how supportive this site is. I really don't know how I'd have coped in this past year without everyone.

that's all from me today - been a bit under the weather yesterday + AF arrived unexpectedly today so no more personals I'm afraid apart from wishing *fififi * a very  and hi to everybody else, stay cosy it's brass monkeys out there......

Roxy xx


----------



## artist_mum

P.S. *ajw* really good news about your results - and I hope the wait passes quickly for you, and you'll be all healed and ready for next steps x


----------



## LellyLupin

Hello ladies, just checking in - Happy birthday Fifi      make sure you stay upright on those skates, isn't it strange how when you are a kid you can whizz around and not worry about falling over,  but when you get older you realise you don't bounce anymore you just break   DP and I were coming down the steep stone steps on Saltburn Bank a few weeks ago, and we were like a pair of pensioners worried we would fall and break a hip!

AWJ glad you are on the road to recovery now chick, full steam ahead now  

Hi MJ Mum is ok at the moment thanks, shes back to moaning about Dad so shes definitely feeling better    Sorry about your DPs uncle hope you both get through the funeral ok 

Hope you are feeling a bit better Roxy  

Kirsty I might just make that trip, you hang onto those babies, I need something to aim for !  Wow your Grandad was 100 thats amazing, wish him happy belated birthday from me, I just love old people and the stories they tell, I didn't have any grandparents when I was growing up as they were all dead before I was born in fact I have already outlived my Grandad,  I always felt like I missed out on something very special.  So sweet of your DP to let you rest so you could eat your Jelly Babies in peace, are you eating jelly babies for your little jelly babies  

Hello to everyone else I haven't mentioned hope you are all doing ok xx

PS Mike let me take a picture of him so I will post it once I have worked worked out how do it on my new phone


----------



## Sushi Lover

Morning girls,

*Lesley*.... Believe me I am desperately trying to hang onto them! I don't feel any different today which is disappointing. Was hoping they'd be implanting now and I'd kind of 'know'. Yes, we can't believe he's 100.. and neither can he, bless him. Had a lovely telegram/card from the Queen... it was an emotionally and overwhelming day for us all. What a shame you didn't have any Grandparents growing up. I was lucky to have all four well into my 30's. I miss my lovely Nan's so much. You could talk to them about so much more than you could your Mum. Going through the war they really lived and nothing could shock them! haha, yes, jelly babies for my jelly babies... 

*Roxy*.... Sorry you are under the weather and AF arrived.. it never gets any easier 

*MJ*... I don't feel any different at all !! grrhh... was hoping for a sign. desperately hoping to break the BFN curse on our little forum and hopefully be the start of lots of BFPs. Enjoy your Valentine's Day and the weekend. Have some quality time with your nieces. Sorry to hear about DP's uncle.

Hello to *Moomin, AJW, Chand, Cornwall, Havingitall, Fifi, Minx, Debs, Cooljules and Rachel* (I always worry I've missed someone!)

*AFM*... decided to go in for a blood test on Tuesday the 19th.. eeeekk. Seems far too soon. Was either that or POAS on 21st. DP and I are going to the clinic together to support one another if it's bad news. They will tell us within 20 mins of taking the blood. Absolutely f***ing terrified! Sorry for that outburst! Can I stay PUPO forever please?


----------



## Moominmum

Hello All,

Gosh have been reading the thread but not written any whilst being away - but what a chatty bunch of ladies you are! 
Just a short post (erhm always my excuse) before I catch up with life...

*Kirsty*: congrats on being PUPO - woohoo! And 3 on board as well. So very exciting! And many congrats to your Grandad too.

*Roxy*: congrats on exams! Well done!

*Lesley*: glad to hear your mum is better. And looking fwd to seing a photo of Shelly/Mike...

*Fififi*: Happy Bday to you (albeit late). I am celebrating the same birthday in a couple of months. Think about the experience we have gained all those years!

*Cooljules*, *Cornwall*, *AJW*, *Havingitall*, *Minx*, *Debs*, *MJ*, *Rachel*, *Chand *and anyone else - hope you are doing okay.


----------



## RachelMaria

Happy Birthday Fi Fi - and if you are having a glass today, have a big one for me!

Hope everyone else is doing OK - hugs to everyone    

AF is definately due - boobs feel like they are about to explode!  Don't you just hate that!


----------



## HavingitAll

Wishing you a wonderful day fififi

Lesely - we gotta see that photo of Mike!

Kirsty - SO exciting PUPO Lady! I can't believe you get a result in 20 minutes! For us we can can get a result on the same afternoon/evening from our clinic which is scary enough but our GP takes a couple days. I believe I actually felt implantation and when our little one's heart stopped beating - I had a pain for implantation and a shooting pain that woke me in the middle of the night for our little one's loss. Maybe I've been imagining things!

Roxy - so brave to do exams! well done!

Cornwall, I had no idea of your age, brave lady! Now I feel so young hahaha! But really, I've read a lot, short of having reached menopause some time ago there's potential for us mature ladies!

Feeling bleurgh, just want to move on, but also just want to eat chocolate! That can't be good for my health. We need to get ready for a new IVF cycle so it's back on the wagon and all but I can't get myself out for a walk or to eat better food. Such a slacker!

HavingitAll


----------



## fififi

Thanks for the birthday wishes everyone - I had lazy morning, then headed off in the snow to go ice skating with my DD (at ice rink not just randomly in the snow!!!) Had fun at ice rink, though my back now killing from bending over stopping 4 yr old falling over for best part of an hour. Coming out of ice rink discovered a LOT of snow so it was slippy walk back to car & then slow drive home. Evening was good as went to local theatre to see a comedian - so nice just to get out the house!

Can't stop as need to go and be romantic ?!!! Well - spend evening with DH rather than on computer!!!

Love to all - will do personals soon xxxx


----------



## deblovescats

hi moomin and kirsty - hope it's all going ok.
hi lesley
i've bitten the bullet - booked an initial consult with Penny at Serum on 28th Feb (after my previous one was cancelled due to snow!)
Did hav a mad panic yesterday - it snowed here again quite heavily, but it rained overnight so it's melted!
looking forward to getting started!¬
Deb


----------



## Moominmum

*Deb* how exciting! Fingers crossed for better weather this time


----------



## Minx52

Evening  Ladies - hope you all had a good valentines!

Fiji, happy birthday! Glad you had a good day....

Kirsty, only a few more days, eek.... Hope they fly by for you  

Deb - exciting news, I bet you're itching for the 28th to come quickly. Let us know how you get on - I keep reading about Serum and think it may feature on our short list

Hello to everyone else - hope you are all well..... I'll try and catch up on personals tomorrow x x


----------



## LellyLupin

Debs thats fab I want to know evey detail when you get back     for your happy ending xxx

Will most more tomorrow.  

Took new phone to our IT  Dept only to be told its locked and you have to pay £25 to get it unlocked.  I couldn't believe it,  its like buying a car and the garage saying thanks for the cash but it will be another £25 before we will unlock the doors so you can get in and drive it.        

Mike/Shelly picture to follow!!!


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hi girls,

*HavingitAll*... yes, 20 mins it great ! They will give me a positive or negative only though... no beta number. If it's a faint positive then it will be sent away for a number reading. I'm still getting a few twitchy pains in my left side low down, but have had these before and got BFNs so I'm not pinning hopes on this in any way. Did you have implantation bleeding? How awful for you to get a shooting pain when you lost your dear embie, that must have been difficult 

*Fififi*... glad you had a nice birthday. You made me laugh clarifying that you went ice shaking at an actual rink rather than a local pond or something!

*Debs*... great news about your appt with Penny! Only 13 days to go. I'll pray it doesn't snow again!

*Minx52*.... thank you. Hope you are ok. enjoy the weekend!

*Lesley*.... How come your brand new phone was locked?! That's bad about the £25. Unbelievable. Looking forward to the photo of Shelly and seeing if your handy work and advice had paid off!

xxx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Does anyone have any advice/reassurances please ladies? I've had some brown spotting this morning. That's 6dp 6 day blasto transfer.

Seems too late to be implantation bleeding so I'm in a total panic. Had a few twinges this week, but no cramps.

Already losing faith that it's worked.    

xxx


----------



## Moominmum

*Kirsty* I didn't want to just read and run although I have no idea. But what I can say is that spotting seems to be normal if you read what's happened to others. And also lady, remember that you have three lovely embies on board and that this is not an "all or nothing" situation, ie you have three chances! But I understand if you're stressed, I would be, but please try not to be. Lots of


----------



## Sushi Lover

Thanks Moomin...trying to remain as relaxed as poss, but it's so difficult when you don't know what's going on inside!   xx


----------



## fififi

Kirsty hope you're doing okay - I know how any thing not totally normal creates all kind of worries in your head. Not experienced dark spotting so can't help there but if I were you I wouldn't discount it as implantation especially as its old blood.
Thinking of you & sending extra sticky hugs for those embies


----------



## LellyLupin

Kirsty that could be implantation spotting don't lose faith just yet    As Moomin said there are 3 babies in there and some pregnant ladies get the spotting too xx

My phone is locked because DP forgot what network I was on and bought a pay as you go phone on a different network, so it comes locked - bloody cheek I think.  Still haven't managed to get it unlocked    Got a photo of Mike in his blue lace dress but I lost the leads for my old phone so can't transfer it on to here.  I will get my friend to blue tooth it over off her phone to my new one.  He was very brave on Friday and went out for lunch as Shelly, he was shaking from head to foot bless him,  but he didn't get any hassle although people were staring at him.

AFM felt a bit upset at DPs mums when she was on the phone talking to her friend who has just become a gran, she was so excited for her I wished I could have one for her.  I swing between trying DE and giving up.  Today Janet asked me if I wanted to go halves with the new girl who is supposed to be taking Toby  and I didn't know what to say, so I guess in the back of my mind I still haven't come to terms with having no children and moving on.  Then I  went for a walk in the woods with DP and his kids and they were so sweet today I wished they were mine.  SS got A+ in his physics, Maths and Biology Exams an A in Spanish and English, he is so bright and I can't claim any of it comes from me


----------



## MJ1

*Kirsty* hugs... keep positive    at work so just a quick post.
Hi Ladies
MJ1 x


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Fififi, Lesley* and *MJ*.. thank you ladies for your positive posts. I appreciate it.

The bleeding is heavier this morning, although still a dark brown colour. Not a clue what this means, but it feels more like AF is about to start. The amount seems like too much to be implantation spotting.

Sorry for lack of personals. Feeling very low. Trying not to lose all hope, but it feels as if it's over for me, yet again. It never gets any easier to deal with either. I gave up my seat to a pregnant lady on the tube and had to try so hard not to break down. Life just feels so cruel and I'm wondering what I have done to deserve all this heartache. Sorry for the 'me' post 

Blood test tomorrow to confirm... it's going to be a tough week....

xxx


----------



## Salad4

Hi - I've been absent for a long while - moving house and feeling sorry for myself, but I just wanted to send lots of luck & sticky hugs to you Kirsty    .  We'll all think positive for you.
Sallyx


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## Sushi Lover

Good to hear from you again *Sally*. Are you feeling a bit better now? How's the new house?

Thanks for the luck, positive thoughts and sticky hugs. I'm bleeding more heavily now and it's more dark red in colour... so it seems this cycle is over for me. I got so close and once again it was snatched away from me  Makes you wonder what else you can do?

Next step... genetic testing or donor eggs I suppose. But at the moment I just want to get through the day. I'm a crumpled mess!

Speak soon, xxx


----------



## MJ1

*Kirsty*, oh hun,  feeling your pain....   
Love MJ1 xxxxx


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## Sushi Lover

Thanks.. *MJ*. They still want me to go for a blood test tomorrow to confirm. The nurse said bleeding in early pregnancy isn't unusual. You know when you 'just know' though?! Just seems like my usual AF. I feel like I'm putting myself through more unnecessary pain going for the test. Sigh.

x


----------



## Moominmum

*Kirsty* just to say that I am thinking of you and  that there will be good news tomorrow. Pls, pls do not give up. Bleeding is not uncommon in early pregnancy.


----------



## hopeful68

Hi Ladies, LONG time no post but i have been watching. 
Hugs to Kirsty - i hope it is a minor mishap and not a fully missed cycle. fingers crossed until you get bloods done.

Hugs to everyone else - funny really, given you ladies loads of hugs and i am not a huggy person!!!  

Well i think DH & I have decided that life as US is ok. i think we are starting to get on with life and looking to our future together as us. no DE/Embryo due to ££. I cant get my head around adoption as it stands in the UK at the moment and cant afford to pay for adoption from abroad. So that is where we are, AF this week so no random miracle  .

burrying myself in work (as usual!) my secondment comes to an end in march ( i would have been about to go on maternity leave then!) however i have been so good they are trying to work out how to keep me or share me with my original sector! it would be amazing to get a 50/50 work pattern to do front line work and then the office stuff. - we shall see, about time something went right!

spent the w/end at Dad's and my Bro and his 2 kids were there. 5&3 yrs old - little terrors, but good fun! Dad announced he was getting engaged to his 12month long relationship. i cant comment on her as i have probably only spent 6-10 hrs with her in that time. High maintainance is my first impression!! Ahh well, what ever makes him happy! - as long as i dont have to 'maid of honour' it - will deff need to loose weight first 10lbs put on since Oct cant get it off either!!

My miracle dog is doing well. having nearly made a decision to put him down at new year he is recovered from the splenoctomy, the tumor was benign, he can walk again after the spinal embolism and is getting a walk every day and is looking good for 15yrs !!

well that is me up to date. sorry no personals, so much to get through and post. i will endeavour to do more personals next time!!

take care..  to you all.


----------



## LellyLupin

Oh Kirsty I am so sorry, I truly hope its a blip and not AF.  Big hug even though I know it won't help you feel better    This is such a cruel rollercoaster to be on, its the worst thing to go through and have your hopes dashed.  Its so cruel.

Hi Sally hope you are ok nice to hear from you.

Hopeful wow Dads getting married after 12 months?  He hasn't let the grass grow there has he.  I guess life is short so you've got to grab happiness with both hands.  Glad to see your dog is doing well, its my dogs 15th birthday today.  Your pup has been through so much he must be a real trouper and I bet his tail is still wagging, they are amazing creatures.  I think dogs can teach us such a lot and give us so much love unconditionally I would be lost without my girl.  I think I am coming to the same decision you have with regards to continuing tx, I keep hoping for a natural miracle too but I know its virtually impossible.  That ache doesn't go away though does it, I wish someone would come up with a cure that makes it go away and never come back.  Hope you get some good luck soon I think we are all in need of a boost,  A  lottery win would nice so we can all have our eggs genetically tested or DE surrogates so we don't get the stretchmarks    xx


----------



## fififi

Kirsty - will be sending all the positive vibes I can create your direction. My sister had dark red bleed for first month of her pregnancy so there is definitely hope. Someone on this thread is due some luckso am really hoping its you       

Lesley - sorry to see you're sounding bit down. It makes things even harder ( if that's possible!) when you feel like you're letting others down too by not being able to have baby.
Your skids sound lovely and bright (!!!!) so keep on enjoying time with them and remember although they don't have your genes their lives are shaped by spending time with you so you are making a difference to their lives    

Hopeful - glad you're finding it little easier to see life as you & DH. There are lots of positives and once you have grieved what you can't have then I'm sure opportunities and fun will become big part of your lives again. It's a horrible path to head down knowing that its not really the one you'd have chosen but slowly you will find happiness    
Hope your work situation turns out as the first positive of many   

Salad - good to see you back. Hope new house is taking shape   

Hi & hugs to everyone else     

AFM having laparoscopy & hysteroscopy tomorrow. Feeling little nervous as know its pretty likely I've endo now and unsure whether tubes will be okay or not. Part of me thinks it will be relief if they're blocked as will stop that hope/sadness cycle I have every month but equally would signify end of hope & leave our only chance to 1 final IVF cycle
Would appreciate a few bubbles and positive thoughts coming my way as nerves getting better of me currently!


----------



## deblovescats

so sorry kirsty - i'm hoping against hope that you're wrong and could still be BFP! Fingers crossed for blood tests. 
sorry you're feeling low lesley - i have days where i feel low too. Had a bit of a weepy episode sunday when i think how unfair it is that we're all having this struggle and having to pay out money we don't have, and some undeserving people just pop out babies like shelling peas! i couldn't be without my two gorgeous cats - had to take Timmy to the vet for this jabs on sat, felt so guilty,  but he's fine and it's for his own good
I'm trying to get back into positive mood for next week - appt with penny next thursday! then holiday to capetown with sister on 4th march.
Work's hectic - loads of people off on hols or off sick!
Deb


----------



## MJ1

*Kirsty & Fififi,*      for today xxxxxxx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Morning ladies,

Thanks for all your wonderful messages of support, hope, reassurance, positive vibes and hugs over the past few days. I don't know what I'd do without you all. 

*Fififi*...... Best of luck for your laparoscopy and hysteroscopy today. Stay strong and I hope you get some positive outcomes from this.       Try not to be nervous and see it as a stepping stone onto the next phase. That's interesting to hear about your sister with her bleeding. My AF is very dark red, almost black and thick. Very odd. Maybe it was a close call? I'll know for sure later. Miracles do happen, but there have been lots of tears the past few days and I'm really not holding out much hope.

*Deb*.... Thanks for crossing your fingers for me. It is unfair you are right. I'm beating myself up at the moment thinking I've done something wrong and don't deserve my dream to come true, whereas others do what they damn well like and still get rewards! I bet you are so excited about your trip to Serum... and then a holiday to Capetown!! Wow, how amazing.

*MJ*... thanks hun. I'm 'ing for a miracle.

*Lesley*.... thanks for your kind words as always. I feel like I'm putting my body and mind through so much trauma and still not getting a reward at the end of it... that is cruel, you are right. How are you feeling today?

*Moomin*... thank you. I still have a tiny bit of hope left (not much!)

*Hopeful*... nice to hear from you! Thanks for your kind wishes. I admire you and DH for reaching such an important decision. That must have been hard. Work sounds like it's going well so I'm pleased for you. Did you find it good to be around your brother's kids? I never can tell how it's going to make me feel when I've got something arranged that involves being around other people's children. Sometimes is helps and other times makes me feel sad, lonely and desperate. Wow, your Dad and his high maintenacne fiancee sounds interesting! 12mths is nothing at all!! You are right... if it makes him happy who are we to criticize. Bless your dog, that is a lovely story. Take care and keep in touch!

xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Just sent Fififi some bubbles and have noticed she has 179 and I only have 8 ?!  Huh?!!  8 is rubbish  

Please can everyone send/blow me a bubble as good luck for later?      

xxx


----------



## artist_mum

*kirsty* - just came online after some distractions this side over the past week, so sorry to hear about the bleed. But the fat lady hasn't sung so.. just praying for you . I presume you are going for the blood test today? I hope for you...... Trying to work out how to blow the bubbles on here..will send some if i crack it!!

*fififi* hope things go ok for you today and the tests help move things forward in a positive way for you 

hi everyone else, sorry no more from me on this post, I have been in a bit of a state this past week maybe due to hormones/pill/hrt and whatever else I'm having on this cycle. Just trying to keep it all together and give DP a break from my emotional outbursts.... 

Roxy x


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hi* Roxy*,

My blood test is today at 4:30. I now have 15 bubbles so maybe you've cracked it?!

Sorry to hear you've been a bit out of sorts with your hormones. They really are horrible things to deal with when out of balance or synthetic. You must be rattling! I hope DP is understanding and knows you can't help the odd outburst. Take care of yourself.

xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

It was a BFN for me ladies...  I'm extremely sad to say.  There have been tons of tears  

It really doesn't get any easier.  Looked so good on paper, but the genetic make-up must still be at fault.

More tomorrow... head is in turmoil at the moment.


xxxx


----------



## deblovescats

so so sorry kirsty - it's so unfair. Take time to heal and work out your next step!
Deb


----------



## cornwall

Really sorry Kirsty. 

Just don't understand how we're getting good embryos but no BFPs


----------



## Chandlerino

Really sorry Kirsty....

I'm the same as you and Cornwall - don't understand getting good embies but no bfp. It's my 43rd birthday and I feel really sad that I might not get the chance of being a mummy again


----------



## Moominmum

Really, really sorry Kirsty


----------



## MJ1

Kirsty, thinking of you and DP. Stay strong, we are all here for you. 
MJ1 xxx


----------



## HavingitAll

so sorry kirsty    

HavingitAll


----------



## Salad4

Oh Kirsty - I think we were all hoping for the miracles that do happen for you.  
We're going back to the Lister for our follow up appointment and I think that DE will be the only option for us.  I think I've got my head around it...
love Sallyx


----------



## Salad4

Blew you some (supportive) bubbles Kirsty.


----------



## Coolish

So sorry to hear Kirsty - big hugs!


----------



## Sushi Lover

To my dear lovely friends... thanks so much for all the kind and thoughtful messages.

*Sally*... appreciate the bubbles lovie. Good luck with your follow-up

*Cooljules*... thanks for the hugs.

*HavingitAll*... thank you

*MJ*.... I've called upon every ounce of strength I have to get me through today. It's so hard.

*Moomin*... thanks hun

*Debs*.... going through a mini grieving process.. thanks for thinking of me.

*Cornwall* and *Chandlerino*... I know, it is even tougher to contend with knowing how good the blastocysts were on day 6. The doctor was more worried about multiple pregnancy than it not working. Just goes to show us over 40's need genetic testing to know the true quality of our embryos. Even with the best embryologists in the world and EEVA it's still only possible to see the quality on a superficial basis. Knowing the chromosomal make-up of the cells inside the blastocysts is paramount to achieving a BFP.

xxx


----------



## Minx52

Kirsty - I am so sorry to hear your news  . It's heartbreaking, give yourself some time to grieve and share some TLC with DP x x  

You're right with us older ladies have more to contend with, I know our consultants talk about egg/embryo quality but for us it's something I wish they could really have definitive tests for. 

Did you all see the news about NHS treatment being extended up to 42? When you read more into it, it states only if you haven't had treatment already - seeing as most of us by that age will have forked out privately they'll more than likely reject any application for a cycle. But, I suppose its worth asking?!

AFM, been to see my consultant last night and he's suggested we think about donor eggs as all tests and results so far point to quality of my eggs. Something DP and I need to discuss and look into. If money was no object is do another OE cycle first, but we don't have that luxury.... Any advice on DE, clinics etc. is gratefully received - Either PM or on here!

Minx x x


----------



## artist_mum

Yes *kirsty* I cracked the bubbles.... I just wish I could send you something more than just bubbles. So very sorry and just sending you a huge big . I know you are a strong and wise person and that you will find your way forward from this when you are ready to. You are still, in relative terms, young and able to be a mother and I have no doubt you will find the path.
Much love Roxy xx


----------



## Mish3434

Kirsty, I'm so sorry to see it didn't work for you     


Shelley x


----------



## Sushi Lover

I now have 40 bubbles... ladies, I thank you 

*Minx*... thanks for your kind message. That is unfair about the new NHS guidelines...most of us have already gone the fertility route by that age! I went to see by GP at 39 and was rejected because DP already has children!! So it wouldn't help me anyway I'm afraid. They get you one way or another. I'm afraid I haven't been down the DE route yet so can't offer any advice.. but there are lots of girls on here who can. I think we will hopefully try another go with OE in a few months together with genetic screening (money permitting)... then look at DE.

*Roxy*.... thanks for the bubbles..... those and a hug are enough. DP is taking it harder than I am so I'm having to be extra strong for the both of us which is tough for me  I hope I can find a way to realise my dream. Hope you are doing ok? How are you feeling now?

*Shelley*..... Thanks for your lovely message. It's greatly appreciated.

xx


----------



## artist_mum

I'm a bit better now thanks *Kirsty*, had a huge hormonal roller coaster in the past week probably due to the pill (which I never got on with) plus the hrt which started with a large dose. But I'm feeling more human yesterday and today so yeah.. keeping focused and taking a step at a time.

I understand about taking care of your DP's feelings in all this. Mine too was very upset previously because I think he had just been super positive the whole time about it so it was a shock when it didn't work out. Such a challenge for couples, this IVF. I can only believe the old adage that these tricky times lead to a stronger bond for the long term. Hope you manage to take care of yourself too.

x


----------



## HavingitAll

you're a strong lady kirsty! but then we all have to be to get through IVF and the wringer it puts us through emotionally, financially, spiritually and physically (anything else?)

how'd the testing go fififi?

hopeful - my thought are with you, these are such tough decisions

I saw the nhs guidelnie re 42 as well. I hope it helps someone, none of us obviously as previous IVF excludes you. We couldn't even get private health for IVF (which we pay a fortune for) as my DH has a child from his previous marriage.

so what do we know about testing egg quality? it sounds like you need at least 3 months to do what you can to improve egg wuality with diet and lifestyle. 

what testing can they do on embryos pre-transfer? nothing was discussed with us and we pay for everything (you'd think they'd try get more cash from us if they could). I thought that there is only genetic testing after an ERPC after 3 miscarriages, otherwise its CVS or amnio. we didn't make it far enough for the cvs or amnio testing and it was our first ever miscarriage.

the embyro quality/ grading pre-transfer seems to only exclude those embryos which are of very poor quality since a poor quality embryo can produce a healthy baby! crazy!

given that we implanted 2 embryos wich resulted in a blighted ovum and a missed miscarriage at 7.5 wks I'm thinking our doc will just say - egg quality, you're old. 1 week to review appointment. still no idea what to ask except what we're asking here.

hi to everyone and hugs (we always need them!).

any comments?

HavingitAll


----------



## fififi

Thanks for bubbles & messages of support. Operation itself was ok but I reacted badly to anesthetic so only came home yesterday afternoon and even then went straight to bed! All turned into quite nightmare as got transferred from day care centre to gynae ward where I'd had surgery to remove my twins in April so was in lot of mental pain watching the ladies arrive in the morning knowing why they'd come & pain some were experiencing. Also felt very angry at teenager with mate who seemed to be using termination as form of contraception & totally oblivious to their conversation being in any way inappropriate to anyone nearby.
In quite bit of pain still - endo had caused ovary & 1 tube to be stuck down which now been unstuck, plus other endo removed during laparoscopy. Several polps removed during hysteroscopy too. Hoping that my revamped body once recovered will enable me to better my chances as its been pretty hideous few days.

Kirsty - so, so sorry to see your news. Words seem useless but you're truly in my thoughts and hope the pain and sadness ease quickly for you


----------



## LellyLupin

Aw Kirsty honey I am so sorry, I don't know what to say to comfort you.    I guess genetic testing or DE is the way to go for most of us now.    I am pinning my hopes on those of you going to serum to see if Penny can turn our bad luck into joy. 

Fifi I hope you are feeling a bit better now  , awful that you had to go on the ward where you lost your babies and had to listen to a thoughtless idiot who doesn't know how blessed she is.   

Roxy hope your hormones have settled down a bit  

Hi to everyone else  

AFM I am still considering DE or giving up, I just can't seem to settle either way its driving me  .  Seeing all you younger ladies not getting the results you want is making me realise just how old I actually am,  and how very minute my chances are.  If DP was enthusiatic about it I would definitely go DE but I know he isn't.  My bi-polar friends baby is due in less than a month, she tried to send me a picture of her swollen feet and it upset me although I couldn't actually open the picture,  how ridiculous to be jealous of such a thing.  On the work front my brother in law is being investigated for theft at work, so he actually did hang himself without any input from me.  I wonder what my sister will say when she finds out -who will she blame then and will she apologise to me and DP for trying to warn her.  

Love to all of you lovely ladies  xx


----------



## deblovescats

how you doing kirsty - you have support from us! i know what you mean about a grieving process.
lesley - i really freel for you, you'll do what you need to do and what's best for you. I sometimes wonder about the money I'm spending and the chances, but for myself, I feel I have to give it a go. I find not being in a relationship hard as well, i sometimes wonder why i seem destined to end up with no man and no kids! It's hard. I feel guilty that neither my sister or I have given my mum kids, she'd love to be a grandma, but she never says it, she's great. I constantly hear about colleagues' kids at work, and also updates from friends from uni and it doesn't seem fair. I try to be a good person, I'm a good friend and colleague, do voluntary work and give to charity. 
Sorry girls for feeling sorry for myself, just having a down morning! 
I'm off to a colleague's 50th birthday party tomorrow - a colleague and i are going, we feel guilty as she's only invited us out of everyone else at work and we've been sworn to secrecy! 
Deb


----------



## LellyLupin

Aw Debs you are so lovely, maybe we are destined for something else other than being mothers.  I am a great believer in fate.  For instance I traced DPs mothers family and she just met her brother and his wife for the first time last year (her brother is 70).  We have now been told that his wife has lung cancer and is dying, I feel that DPs mother was fated to meet him now to help him through the toughest time of his life.  They now have an incredibly close bond and he is relying on her to keep him strong enough to face whats to come.

I know exactly what you mean about no partner and no child but think of it this way, I have a partner who doesn't want a child and that is stressful in itself as we both want different things.  Its like we are living with an elephant in the room.  I sometimes wish there was only my needs to consider as I would be having DE right now.  Anyway what on earth makes you think you will be on your own forever, of course you won't, you are fabulous and there is someone out there for you.   If your colleague has only invited you and someone else to her party thats a huge compliment to you so cheer up and get your glad rags on you never know who you might meet there xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Fififi*...thank you so much for your kind words. They are greatly appreciated. You poor thing being at the gynae unit... must have brought back such painful memories. Sorry the experience was a nightmare, but I'm so pleased all the endo has been removed and your tubes, ovary and polyps sorted out. You now have the reproductive system of a 25 year old  I wish you lots of luck in TTC. As for that teenager... grrhhh... I think I would have flipped out at her.

*Lesley*.... thanks hun and thanks for the hugs. I'm hoping Mr Forman can help us decide whether to try the genetic testing or just go straight for the DE waiting list. Follow-up in a few weeks. I think we need to be realistic about our own eggs. I've just turned 41, had a fabulous response, lots of good eggs, great quality blastocysts, lining/womb all good, immunes treated with steroids and intralipids... no apparent reasons why it hasn't worked.. and still another BFN. The only thing that can be wrong is the chromosomes deep inside that group of cells within the blastocysts which can only be analysed through the genetic Array CGH testing. Eggs from a 25 year old has got to have a higher chance. Interesting about your BIL! Didn't we just all know he'd be the cause of his own downfall sooner or later? And your conscience is clear as well. I wonder if you'll hear from your sister?

*Debs*.... I'm feeling a little better thank you. Only cried once today and managed to put on my make-up first time this morning without tons of mascara running down my face. Thanks for your support. You are a lovely person and I hope you get what you deserve soon. Lesley is right.. there is someone out there for you. You may meet Mr Right at the party so get that LBD out and strut your stuff!!

*HavingitAll*.... with the genetic testing there is something called Array CGH that can test the eggs for chromosomal abnormalities prior to the creation of an embryo. It analyses the polar body which lies between the eggs and it's outer shell and contains a copy of all the chromosomes in the egg. This is removed and tested as it's a surplus structure that is disposed when the egg takes the additional chromosomes it needs from the sperm to make an embryo. The cells in the polar body mirror the ones inside the egg. So they can analyse this and determine the quality of the egg inside. The genetic testing you are referring to is PGD.. pre-implantation Genetic Diagnosis which is more for when a lot of miscarriages happen I believe. Have a read of the link if you are interested. I believe Array costs about £2,000 on top of IVF.

http://www.carefertility.com/fertility-treatments-sc1/treatments-sj2/

*Roxy*....glad you are feeling better and a bit more human hun. DP is really struggling poor thing. It also turns out he has a few large debts because of money borrowed to pay for our costly and long treatment so far, plus holidays and general spending for the S-Kids and money for the ex. He kept it from me for ages. I'm cross with him, but can understand he didn't want to let me down. Anyway, he's now in a panic about repaying the debts added to the loss he is feeling about the treatment not working. It's a mess to be honest. All that money and nothing to show for it. We've had a week of soul-searching and lots of tears. No more covering up money worries and to be honest at all times. We've had words and tears. He's been carrying this secret around since last summer and it's been like a concrete block around his neck. I pray we are strong enough to get through this and escape on the other side with only a few bruises! Working out a finance plan and putting any more IVFs to the back-burner until the money is sorted out. I am exhausted! This week has been hell. My friend is taking me for afternoon tea at the Waldorf tomorrow to cheer me up... I need more than bloody tea though!

xxx

/links


----------



## Sushi Lover

Ahhhh, just noticed I now have 41 bubbles!  You are lovely ladies


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## Ronnie3007

Hello Girls am jumping aboard, hope you are all well today


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## fififi

Hi all - am feeling little more human now though still quite sore. My mum had been staying to look after DD for me which was great except she drove me crazy every time I attempted to do anything other than lie down. Kind of her to care but its easier having house back to myself - now just got to locate all the kitchen items that are anywhere except the cupboard I usually keep them in !!!

Hi Ronnie

Kirsty - liking your comment about my revamped body being like that of 25 year old ... Just shame they didn't do tummy tuck & liposuction at same time to make outside bit go back in time too! It's definitely good news for me moving forward but still need that elusive good egg.
- Sorry to see that your DP has been covering up money issues. It's lovely that he cares for you so much he didn't want you to know but equally now you've both got even more to deal with. Glad you've been able to draw up financial plan for now and hopefully it won't be too long before you're able to be in a position for further tx.
Not surprised you feel exhausted - you've been on the edge of so many emotions this week and getting a BFN after such a promising cycle is even harder to deal with. Just wish it had been different for you  
- tea at Wardolf sounds fab ... You definitely deserve a treat ... Might even be able to do some celeb spotting whilst there !

Lesley - so frustrating your DP isn't coming round to DE as yet. I wish we could all pop round & let him know what a difference it could make for you. You are such a generous caring person you truly deserve a baby of your own. Hopefully fate is already on right path and you'll be announcing a surprise miracle soon.
Guess the next few weeks with your friend are going to be the hardest yet. You're going to need more strength than anyone can normally find so do come here to moan/be sad. Helping your friend will make a big difference to how she copes, though guess she won't appreciate it. You must remember to consider your own feelings from time to time as its not fair and should have been you


----------



## fififi

Deblovescats - sorry to have missed you out in previous post but ipad was playing up.
Lots of things for you are about to change. You've an appointment sorted, a fab holiday planned so now you just need to start believing that 2013 could be your year. Just cos there's no man now is no indicator at all of what is to come. You've been amazing perusing IVF on your own - it's a horrid journey with a partner so cannot begin to imagine how difficult it must be when you've not got any one even remotely able to understand how you're feeling.
Hope your party at weekend turns out to be lots of fun and your negativity today is quickly replaced by big grin


----------



## hopeful68

Hi Ladies,
welcome to newbies - i hope you get the support on hear you need ! 

i really hope those of you umming & aarring can get to a decision as to your path soon. although i still long to be PG (and i would be due to pop at the end of April), i am also feeling a lot more settled in myself having had the discussion and decision with DH and the fact we are agreed that it is too late, we had our one chance (we said all along it would be one go due to ££) - it is so easy to get sucked in to another cycle and another and pile up the debt - not a good place to bring a child into, a pile of debt! so needless to say i am feeling slightly happier in myself - not perfect but getting there. 

work is also panning out. i seem to have steered the managers into allowing me a 50/50 contract so i will be on the ambulances every other week and in the office every other week - final documents to be devised. hopefully something will go right there and i can get settled. i have been unsettled in the office as it was undecided what i would be doing after end march.

DH has gone back home to wales for the w/end to watch the rugby with old mates so i am home alone with the dog and will be enjoying a whole bed and duvett tonight (and possibly a glass of wine - why not my eggs are useless anyway!!) 

i will use the rest of the w/end tostudy for my exam on the 12th march - and possibly do a bit of gardening!!! (or planning the veggie patch at least!!)

hope you all have a good w/end......


----------



## LellyLupin

Hi girls,

Wow Kirsty thats a big secret to have kept (and I know all about big secrets),  at least he did it for reasons that are understandable, he was trying to spare you in a cack handed way.  What a week you have had, you need a good long rest my girl and a regroup when you are feeling stronger.  Glad to hear you have your slap on and its not streaked today well done with that   You sound sensible enough to get you both out of debt and as you are still at the end of 40 you have the time, although if you are having DE I am not sure age matters that much.  Anyway try and clear your head and your heart this weekend and relax as much as you can xx As for BIL I know thank god its nothing to do with me I know I would have been killing myself with guilt by now.  Hmm sister I think not probably, and would I even accept her apology ........well yes I would I am too soft not too, I might make her grovel though two years sent to coventry is really unforgivable.

Hopeful glad you got your job sorted and can finally settle into your new job.  I think if I were you I would shwlve the gardening this weekend I thinl your fingers might get frost bite.  I so wish I was in the same place as you with your decision, but I am still at the umming and arring stage.  I just want to stick at one or the other  and have some peace 

Fifi I went home once after living away for 10 years and my Mum and Dad drove me crazy    Poor you I bet you are so relieved to have your house back.  Glad you are feeling a bit better too and congrats on the 25 year old body  

Hi Ronnie welcome to the mad house x

Hi Roxy and Having it all, going to have a read of Kirstys link when I get a minute.

Debs I hope you are on that dancefloor by nowxx

AFM been on a little diet and lost 3lbs and done lots of healthy cooking, someone said I looked really well today (I hope she didn't mean fat )  so I am on a bit of a health kick.  Wish I could do one for my mind!!  I am trying to muster strength for the new baby announcement, I must exercise my face muscles so I can plaster on a smile again.  And Feefs you are right it should have been me, please have your shoulders ready for me to cry on cos I think I am going to need them, I apologise in advance for how upset I am going to be xx


----------



## hopeful68

Lesley, broad shoulders here for blubbing on! Sending a hug!


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## deblovescats

thanks fifi, lesley and kirsty - you're all so supportive
hopeful - good luck with your journey, i feel for you but glad you've come to a decision
you guys are so great. I really appreciate all your support. I don't know what i'd do without you alll! 
at least i've got myh lovely fur babies! Timmy is so gorgeous, a bundle of black and white fur, with long legs and fixated on me! he follows me all over and like to share the bed with me. (Maybe it's just as well i don't have a man - he'd have to shar the bed with Timmy!) Daisy is a tortoiseshell, very tiny and dainty and a really sad story - she was neglected and abused and they rehomed her kitten separately, so she was very angry and grieving. It's taken a while, but she's much more loving.
I'm looking forward to my holiday - hoping for some sunshine! Only another few days at work, then off to serum. I had a bit of a mini meltdown this morning, got a bit upset, I think at the enormity of it all, but i feel better tonight - you guys have made me get it all in perspective, and being chatting to mother and sister. I think despite not having a man, would regret it if i didn't give it a go on my own.
I'm going to take your advice, girls, and go and enjoy that party tomorrow.
Deb


----------



## Ronnie3007

Still dont understand how you bubble someone lol. Could someone please explain it to me. Thanks


----------



## LellyLupin

Thanks Hopeful right back at you sweetie  

Debs I really admire you, no wonder you had a mini breakdown this is a major happening in your life.  I am not sure I would have the strength and determination you have to go it alone (for now).  I do so hope you get your human baby to go with your fur babies.  Animals are such a comfort I would be lost without my little pup.  Isn't it awful that people are so cruel to them poor Daisy,  the same happened to our old horse Sally and she grieved for a very long time .  DPs parents had a little tortie called Mimi she was so pretty.  I know what you mean about Timmy sharing your bed, since we had a scare with Suzy about her eye DP has let her sleep on our bed, however we wake up on the very edge of the bed and Suzy is sprawled across the middle, shes only tiny but she may as well be a Great Dane.  Good luck at Serum we will all be waiting with baited breath when you get back to hear how it went xx


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## LellyLupin

Ronnie you just press 'click to blow' on the left under your name xx  I have blown you some xx


----------



## Ronnie3007

*Lesley* Thanks I have just seen that lol 

*AFM* Just spoke to DH who is at work for 24 hrs (Firefighter), he has told me he is still so numb from the whole procedure and is scared of me having an operation for the reversal bless him. It shows that they are not as hard as we think they are and they are deeply affected by all of this aswell. Have a good weekend everyone


----------



## hopeful68

Ronnie - i second your comment re DH emotions. My DH is so upset (still) that i MC - or had an empty sack that self aborted. he was so excited i was PG and then that hit him hard. i dont think we realise how invaluable this site is as therapy. i think i have handled it all better because of the support here, but DH is so isolated and it is a difficult topic to talk about as a couple without geting upset and angry (not at each other just the situation). i eventually felt i was strong enough to talk to him and evenutally he opened up and the tears started. i think it helped get us to where we are now. still frustrated to be here as it was not my plan but i do believe in fate so i cant wait to find out what it is that means i cant have kids for myself - it had better be bloody worth it!!!

Hugs to all the DH/DPs that are enduring our journies!! - Debs - one advantage of going it alone!! so a special Hug to you!


----------



## Ronnie3007

*Hopeful* That is so true, DH said again tonight that there is no way he will allow us to grow thro the rollercoaster again. So its the clips off or nothing now. He is also now stressing over me having an op done, thinks i wont come out of hospital alive .


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## hopeful68

Ronnie - good luck with the tubes. i must say having had 2 anesthetics - i love them!!!i guess due to our obcession we are porbably in better health than most who 'go under' so you shouldnt have any issues!

on a different note, i finally told my brother last w/end about out IVF and he has now offered his wife's eggs!! - i dont think she is aware!  still boils down to a lack of funds but having another option dangled when i though i was mentally sorted has got me thinking again aaaarrrggghh!!!


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## Ronnie3007

*Hopeful* Always good to have other options. Would she not consider being a surrogate for you?


----------



## LellyLupin

Of course you will come through the op alive Ronnie, bless him he must love you such a lot to be worried about that.

Well my friends baby is here, he arrived a month early at 6.11 this morning, weighing in at 5lbs 15, baby Sam.  So far all I have felt is numb, no tears yet but I know they are not far away.  DP is nowhere to be seen he has taken his kids out, I am sure he will come back as late as possible because he knows I will be very quiet.  I hate feeling like this


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## MJ1

Hi Ladies,

Lesley, hugs to you hun, it is hard when a new baby arrives in the family or close friends. Chin up hun.

Ronnie, Hi, and good luck with your op, you will be fine.

Debs, I also admire you going it alone. Hugs x

Welcome newbies! x

Hi to Kirsty, Roxy, Hopeful, Fififi and havingitall.

AFM, not much to report, waiting for AF to arrive next week but staying ever hopeful. Will hopefully receive our DE letter from Lister early March so it will all seem a bit real then.

Happy weekend all
Love MJ1 xx


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## fififi

Lesley - have sent you a pm though it might have gone as an email so if you get random email from someone who's name begins with fi... It's from me!
Big hugs


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## Ronnie3007

OK girls am now on day 9 of AF  , today been getting stabbing pains to one side then a couple to the other.  Is it my ovaries getting ready for  ovulation?  Really painful at times


----------



## karen71

Hi, I had my bfn on Tuesday, and to round the week off af started on friday, and as I've got endometriosis I have alot of bad period pain, but this was VERY bad!. I have been finding it hard to cry, it's like I'm in shock. I did cry as soon as I got out the hospital and when I saw my sister, but apart from one other night, I've just not cried. But I feel so sad and angry etc. We are going wednesday to the gynocologest, to hopefully find out what went wrong. But I feel so helpless, mentally at the moment.


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## LellyLupin

Oh Karen big hugs to you, this is such an emotional journey.   We all know how you feel and wish we could help take the pain away.  You will cry later on I am sure, its ok to be angry and sad if it gets you through it. I hope you get good answers on Wednesday xx

Ronnie it could be xx


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## karen71

Thanks Lesley.   I think maybe at the moment it is helping me get through it, now I think about it, and maybe after wednesday, thats when I will feel more like crying. Going back there etc


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## Ronnie3007

*Karen* I know how you are feeling, I still feel very angry and cant believe it didnt work when we had 2 grade A embries put back in. I dont know how long it will take for us to accept this is over. I am hoping our gynae on Friday does a scan so that I can see an empty womb, hopefully that will be closure for me.


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## karen71

its worse isn't it Ronnie when you have 2 good embies put in and it didn't work. I can't believe it, I thought I had a good chance with them. Especially as everything had gone how it should up to then. I think it will take a long time accept. Hope it goes ok at the gynae


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## fififi

karen -    
Sorry you didn't get your BFP. It's so hard when it fails and even worse when the chances were good ones. I guess for you there's added emotion as your sister would have been really upset for you too.
Take your time to feel sad/angry - you sound like you're in shock right now so definitely need to take it easy on yourself and allow yourself to grieve the loss of what was supposed to be a happy future    
Hope you get some answers on Weds.

ronnie - you're in pretty rough place too and hope evil AF ends soon so you can start to get hormones back on track at least    
The failure after a cycle when you've invested so much time, emotion and money in it will take a while to heal. You'd been planning it for ages before starting and now that you reached the end and didn't get the result you've longed for it's a huge knock. Don't feel like you should be over it already as it's still very early days. Most of us "oldies" on this thread couldn't face having a review appointment until at least 6 weeks after we cycled.
Hope Friday goes well x

Lesley - thinking of you & make sure you take care of yourself at this stressful time    

MJ1 - will be willing AF to stay away for you     as think all of us are in need of seeing some joy on this thread.
If that fails however it'll be good to know you're finally moving along on DE process. I'm having DE counselling on 5th March so hoping that DH & I will both still be in agreement after that and can start making steps along our new path too.

hopeful - hope your weekend in charge of the TV remote went well and you managed to relax a bit as well as study.
Kind of your brother to offer wife's eggs - though probably best she gets involved in this too!!! - it's frustrating that family seem to think that it's an easy problem to solve yet don't actually have any concept of what egg donation really means, if indeed is a viable option in first place.
Maybe your decision to withdraw from tx is about to take an unexpected turn and fate is playing a strange hand    

debs - hope you had a fun time at the party and an enjoyable weekend xxx

Can't scroll back to see any more posts so will just have to wish everyone else a happy week ahead and hope you all had nice weekends    

AFM - off work this week recovering from op. Still pretty tender and bruised but majority of pain gone now. Very drowsy from the pain killers so need to start reducing how many of those I take in order to stay awake for more than 3 hours at a time!!! Not planning to do much except veg in front of the TV for now - though will need to get back into work mode soon as lots of lessons to plan ready for my return next week.


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## artist_mum

*lesley* Feeling for you, it is hard, I know. Bless you, I hope you will get through these feelings quickly. What a tough place to be - I know how close this has been to you all the way through. Just sending you a huge big  and remember your FFs are with you!

*kirsty* sorry so long in replying, my gosh, you poor thing - you did have a rubbish week then  I so hope that you and DP come out of this together and stronger. I know a lot of men who would have, misguidedly, done the same thing. They think they can fix things for us but nasty financial suprises are not really the way to keep us happy!! Sending you a big  too. Hope things are getting clearer and you two go off and do something nice together to get through all this.

*karen* so sorry to read your news. it is so hard. and crying is sometimes easy and sometimes not. I feel for you.

*ronnie* hope you get to the right decision for moving forward together - he sounds like a lovely guy you have there. hope AF passes soon

*hopeful* haha that is a pain when you get offered an option AFTER you made up your mind! Aaaargh  Hope things get clear again for you. Gardening and having a weekend at home sounded lovely on your earlier post

*debs* how was the party?!?!

*fifif* I have visions of you hunting down all your 'relocated' kitchen items after yr mum was there  Made me laugh! Hope you are feeling a bit better by now and had a good weekend.

hi to everyone else who i know pops in here now and again! Hope you are all doing well on your 'journeys'

AFM Feeling a bit better from a hormonal/emo point of view. DP had the skids at his mother's place this weekend to give me a break (she is away on holiday). I have another bl**dy essay to do so I got some space to get on with that which was good. And it was lovely to have the house to myself 

Off to bed now, have a good week everyone

Roxy xx


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## artist_mum

forgot to say hi to *mj1*. Yup go on and treat us all with a natural bfp! That would be so cool

crossed posts with *fifif* - sounds like you still have some recovering to do, i hope you manage to rest up before you get cracking with your lesson plans. Loads of rubbish day time TV sounds just the thing  Hope you are soon on the mend

x


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## Ronnie3007

*Karen* We def had our hopes sky high after getting thro the EC then the fertilisation. I knew the last bit would be up to my body but never dreamt not one of them would stick. As far as I knew in the past I had never had any problems so I had been very lucky. Just shows how 8 years can make a difference in our bodies . I still think I am 25 lol, my body is telling me otherwise. I hope you find the strength to try again 

*Kirsty* I keep seeing comments about your DH and finances, not sure what went on but my DH I think has done something similar. I found out that we had the money for the IVF but not the trip over to England to see my children. He was too worried to say that we needed to delay the IVF cos of lack of funds so allowed us to go into the red to a point that the bank was refusing to pay our bills . I have told him that next time if this arises just tell me and it will be fine. OMG it made me feel like he had such a low opinion of me that I would throw a hissy fit. MEN and they say they dont understand us!!!!  I am sure that whatever he did, he did it for what he felt were the right reasons.  If I am honest I could quite easily go to bed and never ever get up again.

*MJ1* Good luck and Yes lets see some good news on this thread cos we all need it    

*fififi* Really hope you start to feel more human soon 

*Roxy* Had to re read your comment twice lol .... "skids" . Hope the essay writing went well, have a great week 

*AFM* Well a new week, lets see what this one brings. Roll on Friday  for some positive news  Trying to stay motivated and not slip into a meltdown over it all. So hard being away from my babies and dearest friends. Life sucks at times and I really do wonder what i did wrong in a previous life to be going thro this. Also for some reason I am up every 2 hours for the loo, having hot sweats at night, constipated and also have daily bursts of excess wind (tmi) Sorry but its driving me mad. Stupid hormones  Hope everyone has a good week


----------



## Ronnie3007

If I am honest I could quite easily go to bed and Never ever get up again


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Ronnie*..... oh please don't say that. You have so many things going for you... 4 wonderful children and a lovely husband. Be thankful you have the opportunity to be a mother as lots of women don't. Sorry you are feeling down and I hope life (and your crazy hormones!) get sorted soon. Big hugs.  Yes, our men have their pride and want to provide for us...somewhat misguidedly at times though. I felt the same that my other half couldn't tell me. Like I'm some high maintenance princess! They try and muddle through and do the best they can, but get caught up in it all and find it's too much to do alone. I hope you find a way to sort your finances out. We have been trying to sort our muddle out all weekend. A plan is on the horizon so I feel a little calmer.

*Roxy*... such a rubbish week. He honestly thought he could sort everything... but even he isn't Superman! Silly man. I'm less cross now and just working through some ideas to sort the mess out. It seems clearer after the weekend thank you. Glad your hormones have settled a bit. Good luck with the essay.

*Fififi*.... Glad you are feeling a little better after the op. Enjoy the relaxation and 'veg time'... you need it! You made me laugh about the tummy tuck and lipsuction! Wouldn't that be a result?! I'm sure you don't need it anyway. Yes, the elusive good egg.. take years to find. Tea at the Waldorf was lovely, even had a glass of bubbly that went straight to my head. Cheap date now! Feeling under the weather today... sore throat and headache. Unsurprising considering the hell of last week. It has to come out in some way, shape or form I suppose.

*Karen*... hello hun.. I'm glad and not glad to see you on here (if you know what I mean). I hope the support helps you through a difficult time. You need a really good sob. It is a helpless feeling, I know how that feels... just out of control. I hope you get some positive answers on Wed and can start thinking of the next steps. It is even harder knowing how good the embies were. I still can't believe none of my 3 blastocysts took. Acceptance is a few steps more along the grieving process... don't rush yourself.

*MJ*.... Oooh, early March is so close now. How exciting!

*Lesley*... oh hun, sorry to hear how upset you are feeling. It's good news for her, but mixed emotions for you. You need a massive hug from DP. I hope he looked after you last night? My friend texted me yesterday to say another friend (I'm not close to her) had a baby on Sat night. I was a bit cross to be honest as only got my BFN on Tuesday (which she knew about) and she knew I was struggling. I think it's massively insensitive, but she just doesn't get it? Why not wait a few weeks before telling me? Maybe I'm being too sensitive? How are you feeling today? That's great about losing 3lbs, well done. Yep, massive secret.. for a whole year as well.. ugh. Makes me feel sick. We are slowly piecing things back together and coming up with a plan. It'll be a struggle though.

*Hopeful*.... goodness, your sister-in-law's eggs without her knowing about it? That'll be a tough one!  that's the problem when you get another option, the mind starts whirling again. How old is she?

*AFM*... follow-up with Mr Forman booked for 6th March.. I hope he has some constructive answers.

Hello to everyone else xxx


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## Ronnie3007

*Kirsty* Thanks for that kick up the bum!! I know I am very lucky to have been able to be a Mum to 4, it breaks my heart what you go thro to get to that when I found it so easy. SORRY  Glad to hear you have a plan now to sort things out, I have told my DH if the next step is not free then we are off to the bank!

Am trying to do my housework today slowly, have been suffering with headaches for over a week now and today I have resorted to good ole Lemsips. It feels like my sinuses again so hoping the lemsip will clear it. On an upward note, due to all that has been going on and the lack of wine being drunk I am starting to lose weight, 10kg to go


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## Sushi Lover

*Ronnie*... sorry if that sounded harsh. I hope you didn't take offense  I read it back and thought.. oops, I hope it's not too much. A kick up the bum made me laugh! Are you feeling better today?

xxx


----------



## Ronnie3007

No it was fine,  most probably what i needed lol.  Sometimes we do forget how lucky we are as we take so much for granted.  I am just feeling very tired today, wishing AF would do one.  10 days is quite long enough thanks  .

xxxx


----------



## hopeful68

kirsty - she is 38 and has a 5 and 3 yr old! not sure about the nature/nurture aspect of a highly strung spanish egg crossed with a welsh OCD sperm....... 

i spent part of sat shovelling the contents of the compost bin on to the garden - in the slight dusting of snow!!!! then collapsed, watched TV and enjoyed my duvett. i am now brewing a nice cold - the first in months so i cant complain - just feel poo...

off for a lemsip and early to bed!! take care girls....


----------



## deblovescats

thanks mj
hi everyone
sent a message yesterday but it disappeared into the ether!! getting really nervous now - off to Heathrow tomorrow with my sister (she works as cabin crew for BA) so we're travelling together but she's off to Bahrain/Doha, then we're travelling home together on friday! Good timing. When I go for tx, she's going to try and come with me and we're going to make a break of it! 
The party was different! My colleague had laid on entertainment which consisted of her singing Abba and Cliff songs - loudly but slightly off key! other friends sang other songs, including one ex headteacher doing 3 yodelling songs! her two boys did muppet impressions! It went on nearly all night. No eligible single men but at least i got a bit of a laugh. The buffet was good.
I've got a bad head tonight - could be stress or late night, or the fact one of my little fur babies woke me at 4 am on sat - the morning of the party!
I think he knows I'm leaving him but he's in good hands - my mother's looking after them! still feel guilty though. He keeps me going and partly sane! 
I'm just hoping for good news at the appointment and hoping to move forward. I've been deliberating all weekend but know i need to do this, if i wait for Mr Right before ttc, i could be 100! If i don't try this, i'd regret it. I think it's just the thought of spending the money, and still getting a BFN. Trying to give myself positive vibes now.
Deb


----------



## fififi

Deb - hope appointment goes well and being at the clinic helps you regain your positivity and excitement
Money is a worry but equally if you didn't go for it you'd regret it in the future - this way no matter what happens you know you gave it your best shot     
PS maybe you're destined for a holiday romance?!!!!


----------



## deblovescats

thanks fifi - you made me laugh and cheered me up! 
Deb


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## Ronnie3007

*Debs* Good Luck at your appt


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## fififi

Deb - glad you're smiling again   

PS so good luck with appointment and the locals!!!


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## LellyLupin

Good luck debs xx

Kirsty yes your friend is massively insensitive  ,  but as I was saying to Fifi earlier no one understands unless they are living it.  I had a lovely lecture off my sister today telling me what a good life I will have not having kids and how lucky I am really - yep thanks sis   

Feefs thanks for the PM chat I appreciate your support, I am struggling but I will get my mojo back soon I promise, I can't do with feeling this miserable somethings got to give    xx  Hope you are feeling ok after your op. 

Whats going on ladies so many of you have a cold this week and DP has just sloped off to bed with a temperature, it must be all the trauma we are going though it must make us more vulnerable.  

Good luck to everyone with your various appointments heres hoping we will have some good news shortly. 

Night all xx


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## Sushi Lover

*Debs*... wishing you lots of luck for your appt and trip to Serum. I can't wait to hear all about it. You have to go it! A partner will come along a some point and if he's the man for you, he'll accept your baby too  As for the money, yes it's a tough one. We've spent so much... I shudder when I calculate it in my head to be honest.... and have nothing to show for it at the end. All I can say is if I hadn't have tried I wouldn't forgive myself and if it doesn't work at least I can look back in years to come and say I gave it my best shot. Fififi is right. You should do the same. I've budgeting to the extreme now after DP's bombshell about the debts. It's amazing how little you can spend when you put your mind to it and quite rewarding in a strange way. Next step is selling stuff on ebay... old designer handbags I no longer use, watches, jewellery from ex partners/husband and a couple of wedding dresses that seem ridiculous to hang onto now?! Doing wonders for the soul to de-clutter as well 

*Hopeful*... at 38 she should still have some good quality eggs then! How exciting.. do you think it's a real possibility? yeah, I'm coming down with the lurgy as well. Been sniffing the Vicks First Defence spray which does help. Wish I was snuggled under the duvet though.

*Fififi*... how are you feeling now? Recovering ok?

*Lesley*... I'm glad you agreed with me about my friend's text... Was worrying whether it was me being too sensitive. She's meant to be my best friend and yet texts me about the birth of a girl's baby she used to work with 5 days after losing my precious embryos. Not a clue. I would understand her reasons for NOT telling me more than her reasons for telling me! Beggers belief. Your sister saying things like that is so typical of women with children who've never had trouble conceiving. Hugely insensitive. She is the lucky one having children! I met another friend on Friday night who proceeded to tell me how bored she was with her life, how mundane it is doing the same thing everyday (get up, feed kids, change nappies, school run, etc etc.).. I'd love to have that life. She told me all this AFTER I'd said the IVF hadn't worked for the 3rd time.. through my tears. Honestly, I don't understand some people?! How are you feeling now? Is your mojo returning? It's horrible when you go through black times.. I said to DP last night I'm so bored feeling miserable that I'm going to do something about it. So mind over matter and I feel brighter today by just telling myself to cheer up and focus on what I have going for me rather then what I haven't. It's tough though.

Hello to everyone else reading.. hope you are well.

xxx


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## LellyLupin

Kirst I sometimes wonder what is going through peoples heads, I really do.  Even when I thought I could have kids I would never do that to someone who had just got a negative after ivf, what sort of a friend is that. (Sounds like mine)  

I am up and down today, got a bit blue when I saw the baby photos last night, but trying to pick myself up today.  Sometimes I am determined to move on an then something totally ordinary sets me off, like seeing an advert for baby stuff or the connection between a mother and child.  Trouble is you can't get away from it.  My sister was saying oh now you can get a horse of your own etc but you know what it just doesn't even begin to fill the hole in my heart.  BUT time to cheer up instead of spiralling, I have even had a bit of a spent on EBAY and why not I am saving a fortune by not having kids


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## Ronnie3007

Not happy today, just been watching This Morning and Fertility Week and have found out that my chances of success on IVF were only 3-5 %, that is not what the clinic told us!  I thought 15% was bad but was prepared to take that gamble, if they had said the true percentage we would have walked out and gone for the reversal straight off


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## Moominmum

Hi All,

Sorry been away for a while but I read all the time but then I am just too lazy to write. Not good!

Firstly, *Debs*, hope everything is going well and I can just agree with everyone else. You are definitely doing the right thing! I salute you for taking the step to do it on your own, it takes a very strong woman to do that, but it is the right thing to do. I have this amazing single friend who is 37 and I am almost begging her on my bare knees to start something now when it should be "easier". I know she wants children but is waiting for Mr Right. Mr Right (although it is Mr Almost Right generally I think ) will come along eventually to you and to her. But we all know that men can be a bit slow sometimes 

*Kirsty*: I hope you are slowly recovering from your tx. I think I can sympathise with you to a certain extent. Your tx reminded me so much about my tx until day 4 after EC. I think it is hard to digest a BFN when until then the doctors etc more or less have been doing the Mexican waves at every other step prior to that. I think it just shows that the knowledge is not really there for 40+ right now as all feedback (incl regarding embies etc) seems to be based on younger ladies' tx. Kirsty, you will get there one day I am sure! Oh and I do not think you over reacted. I had my tx almost 5 months ago and I am blessed with DS and I would have reacted the same. In fact, last week I received a text from someone I have not seen for probably 2 years with the announcement of her (second) baby - I almost threw the phone in the wall! Adding to that she put her huge belly on ******** the week prior to that so she is blocked from my feed. In fact, I have blocked anyone that is preggers from my feed - I just don't want to know or see.

*Fififi*: hope you are recovering okay. Now your body is ready for your miracle. 

*Lesley*: You really have everything thrown at you.

*Ronnie*: aren't we all really 25?  I just wish that our bodies understood that. n I hate all the % stats given. They seem to be so random and depend on who is saying it. As I have said before, IVF and in particular IVF for 40+ is not an exact science. I was so angry with "my" consultant when he said after the BFN, "Well, now as you have had a failed tx, your chances of success has decreased significantly" and I felt like replying "No, I am still the same, it is just your belief in my success that has changed"...

*Karen*: hope that the pain has eased a bit now. Life is so unfair sometimes. 

*Hopeful*: wow re your SIL. Do you think it is a real possibility? That would be exciting!

Hi everyone else - I know I have left out many but I was not supposed to write personals but then I ended up with a few anyway...

AFM, I think I am in a limbo.n Sometimes I believe that I have accepted that there will be no more for us and then start looking at adoption. But then I see/hear friends having babies and my heart aches and I realised I am not done yet. I am not sure if I could cope emotionally with another tx (financially it might be possible), I also found it physically demanding. I am praying for a natural BFP for the time being! 

Some    to us all!

Moominmum


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## Moominmum

*Debs*: when I mentioned my friend I didn't mean to compare to you. I am just begging my friend to learn from my and others experience as she is fully aware of my tx last year and how hard is was for me and how I wished that I had started earlier. When you are younger you often do not realise the impact of time (I know I didn't) and if I can make anyone else I care about avoid my situation I will.


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## hopeful68

before everyone gets too excited for me i really dont think SIL eggs are an option. if i was to carry it she would have to go through the IVF bit and we just cant afford it. i jokingly said to my brother if she got PG again its mine!!! but that is about it. by the time i save up for another round of IVF i will be too old to be a mum, her eggs will also be in the 'too old' bracket so onwards and upwards on a different path and see if someone leaves a bundle on the door step for me!! (money or baby i dont care!!)

Lesley - so difficult to know what to say. you really are going through the mill. so many things to juggle draining you of energy to recover. i really hope you can start to see some light from some direction or other. no one can lift you up to see beyond the bubble you are in but somehow you need to find a way out of it! linking with your animals theme and children, i was considering volunteering at the local disabled riding centre and seeing if that gave me any lift - well once the weather warms a bit!! (i also think in some way it would remind me of the probabilities of that happening if i was to fall PG given my egg health!!)

people are so hartless about childless couples and dont know what turmoil is going on behind closed doors. some just dont think. i have one firend who did think and warned me about an invite to a baby shower before it arrived and understood that i didnt want to go. i had more sympathy from a GP on monday than any other medical person from the clinic to my normal gp - he almost got my crying, bless him he didnt quite know what to say - will def try and go to him in future!

not sure where everyone lives but (and i said this on my ivf thread) it would be nice to meet up and have a good old 'put the world to rights' gathering  - but i am about as far south as you can get before you get wet so logistics would be a nightmare. But anyone near the Dorset area feel free to try and arrange a girly coffee. I have only met one lady from here,by coincidence at the first scan, she had just come out all happy at her little one and then it was my turn.... to get my empty sac news......

well that is me for the night, dinner to cook and course work to do!! take care. M


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## LellyLupin

Finally worked out my new phone and have posted a picture of Mike/Shelly for you  

Hopeful my friend keeps offering to carry a baby for me and my SIL keeps telling me she doesn't think my eggs are crap    As I keep saying to my friend its not my body and carrying a baby thats the problem, its my eggs are too bl**dy old I can't get a baby to carry.  Like Moomin everytime I think I have my head around it,  5 minutes later I am thinking about tx.  I just want some peace now I am emotionally spent.  My friend having her baby has thrown me into a tailspin.  Tearful a lot of the time, ok when I am very busy, and dreading alone time because I don't want to think    Luckily for me I can't visit her in the hospital as DP is full of cold so I wouldn't dare risk it,  (and I really don't want to go).  I just want to run away at the moment.  You know I hadn't really thought about the possibility of having a disabled child, I guess in our quest to have a baby those thoughts don't arise that much, we think about miscarriage but not if something is wrong with the baby.  It will probably be an eye opener for you at the riding centre and if nothing else horses are very calming and soothing so I hope you do go for it (in the warmer weather) xx

Yes some people who already have children can be so heartless but I do think because they are not living it,  its very hard for them to understand.  One of my friends asked me how I was today (she has kids) and although she was very nice I could see she didn't have a clue about what I said I was feeling.  Not her fault at all but I do think unless you live it its hard to sympathise.  Nice friend who warned you of the baby shower - take note Kirsty thats a true friend  

I would so love to meet you girls, I am up North so nowhere near Dorset  

Moomin  how do you block someone from your feed as I know I am going to be inundated with baby pics off my friend.  I can't unfriend her though as she will guess my true feelings and I dont want that.  On the 37 year old friend of yours topic,  I am also starting to say to people in their late 30s don't leave it too late.  I don't want anyone to go through what we are going through I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.  I hope you get settled one way or the other or you get your natural miraclexx

Well DP is moaning about not being soothed so I will have to go. 

Night ladies xx


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## SmallPeanut

Hello everyone,

Hope it's OK if I join you, the lovely Kirsty has recommended you all as a brilliant bunch, as we've just gone through our tx together.

Just waving hello for the moment and will be back to post properly tomorrow.

xxxx


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## Moominmum

Hi *Peanut*, welcome to this thread. "Sorry" to see you here if you know what I mean. Sorry about your BFN. Take time to heal your wounds.  

*Lesley*, re ********. Clock on your friend's name so you come to her profile. The to the right of her name in bold you see tow boxes, "Friends" and "Message". Hoover over "Friends" and you will see "Show in News Feed" - if that one is not ticked, her news etc will not show up in your feed. That way you don't have to unfriend anyone but you can still "avoid" them...


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## LellyLupin

Oh thanks Moomin I will do that.  Unfortunately for me I went on ******** to see if I could figure it out and there was a picture of my friend and the baby.  Cue me thinking about it and feeling upset, so tried to talk to DP about it, to which he said 'oh not this again for Gods sake' leading to a big row.  We are now not speaking and I'm back downstairs in tears. I am so p*ssed off with my life at the moment  I am seriously thinking that as long as I am with DP I am going to be unhappy.  He just expects me to get over it and I can't.  He said I could talk to him and I can't, he can't be happy either with me rattling on all the time.  We are just going around in circles, I can't let it go and he just wants to put it behind us, if only I could.  He says he supports me but he doesn't, he never wanted another child and all through my tx he made that abundantly clear.  What sort of a future do we really have together when we both want such different things.


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## Ronnie3007

*Moomin* I am now very suspicious of the whole system I am afraid, that is why DH would never go thro it again.

*SmallPeanur* Waving back  

*AFM* Motivation levels dropping, AF still has not totally gone, feeling yukkk every day, so in all feeling totally fed up. DH has said if we have to pay for the reversal we will save for it and not get a loan and thinks it will only take a few months to get the money. More ageing of my body, so am not happy with that decision. Nothing i can do tho .


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## Moominmum

*Lesley*: so sorry to hear about your being sad  Maybe you and DP needs to speak with someone together, so that you can speak "via" someone and not avoid difficult topics? 

*Ronnie*: the whole financial bit is tough. A big part is that is you just don't know if it is going to work or not. If it works then I think we all would say "of course it was worth it!", but unfortunately you only know afterwards. 

AFM, I have realised even more this morning that I am not done yet. I am so grateful for DS but I think it would be easier if I wasn't constantly reminded about what I don't have. With lovely DS around I can't avoid other families and then, in most cases, with 2+ children and many babies. Last weekend we went out to do things and when I bought the tickets I was told "It makes sense that you buy a family ticket even if you only have one child". Of course it was not meant to mean anything bad but it just hurts each time and I cannot forget and move on. I never believed I would be in this position and I have not really accepted the facts yet.


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## LellyLupin

Moomin we all seem to be feeling the same thing at the same time.  It must be so hard to crave another baby and have to mix with other families due to DS, at least I could avoid them up till now.   I have now blocked my friend and her DH from my ******** account so now I can go into it without that knot in my stomach,  thanks so much for telling me about it xx  As for counselling I think thats where we will end up.  We are both off work today as we are both shattered, I slept on the sofa and now he is being very grovelly, but to be honest I just want him to say we can try again.  

Ronnie before you and DH decide to have a reversal make sure you read up about Antisperm Antibodies, in 70% of cases the man develops antibodies that cling to the sperm leaving him totally infertile.  We spent 3.5k getting DPs done and no one warned us of this, we thought it had been a success and to them it was as sperm was getting through, unfortunately we didn't find out about the antibodies till we had been trying for ages, it came as a complete shock to us.xx


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## Ronnie3007

*Lesley* Thank you for the tip never considered that. He has had 2 previous DS's so as his sperm count was fine did not think of anything else. Hope you can both sort this out and come to an agreement, sometimes talking to someone neutral does help.


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## Sushi Lover

Hello ladies,

*Les*.... Honestly, she's meant to be my best friend as well.. I'm staggered! Times like these make you realise who you true friends actually are.. and more often than not, it's the people you wouldn't have thought of. So sorry you are feeling blue. Baby photos really don't help..bloody ********. I suspended my account in the end as it was too difficult seeing photos of bumps and newborns. Oh dear, that row with DP was the last thing you needed. They just don't understand at times do they? It does sound as if you want different things where a baby is concerned and that's where the problem lies. You need him to say that he wants to try again and it seems as if he can't or won't do that? Definitely try counselling together hun, as Moomin suggested. My DP and I are going for a 'partner session' (oi oi) next week. Sometimes you just go round and round in circles and just can't find an end or solution... that what the experts are there for... to help you find that end. I so desperately want your DP to say he wants to try again, because that's what you want and that feeling will never just disappear without your acceptance. How can you do that when you want to try again though? If I was near Newcastle I'd come round and have a word with him (or wring his neck) myself for you!  The photo is interesting! Is he not wearing some kind of girlie wig? Not sure a masculine short back and sides goes with the outfit! Bless.

*Moomin*.... thanks for your message. Yes, all the way along they were telling me how well I was doing and you build your hopes and expectations up more and more don't you? Ultimately a bigger fall to deal with. You are right, there really isn't enough information and historical knowledge for the doctors to make a good case for us 40+ers. It's so hit and miss. I'm intrigued to know what Mr Forman will say about my cycle in our follow-up next week. I mean, he was the one encouraging me to have one or two transferred because of the high percentage of a multiple pregnancy! The man has been practising IVF for longer than anyone else in the UK. If he doesn't have a clear idea then who does? The Array CGH is a possible next step...then donor eggs. I have a small plan at least. It's frustrating receiving texts like that isn't it? I just don't understand why my good friend who knew about the treatment would choose to share that news with me? The mind boggles. I can understand how that hurt about the family ticket  also how you cannot avoid other families because of your DS... whereas we can avoid children and babies like the plague in most case! Sounds awful, but he helps heal the wounds. Are you going to try IVF again do you think... as you aren't done yet?

*Hopeful*.... oh, shame. I was getting carried away for you! Do they say only donor eggs from under 35's are viable? It is all about the money...sadly. Bundle on the doorstep sounds ideal! I live North East of London on the West Essex borders... but my parents are in Poole, Dorset. So I'm down your way a fair bit. This weekend in fact! Visiting my Grandad as my parents are on hols. Anyone else in the Dorset area fancy a coffee on Saturday?!

*SP*... hello lovie... glad you joined us. How are you feeling today? Did you make it to work?

*Ronnie*... I know they 'bandy about' these percentages and numbers, but you really can't base much on them in my opinion. They still don't have proper historical data to base the numbers on for us 40+ers. But specific clinics have higher %.. so you have to do your research and pick one that specialises in overs and gets good results for them. These national average figures are really no use at all.

Hello to everyone else reading xx


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## Sushi Lover

Forgot to say... *Karen*.. hope your follow-up/gynae appt goes well. I think it was today?

x


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## Ronnie3007

*Cornwall* Hiya hope you can re start your tx soon 

*Kirsty* Oh th joys of being older


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## fififi

Hi ladies ... seems lots of us are in a dark/very dimly lit place at the moment - think we could all do with some good news and happiness reappearing in our lives         

I've spent morning snuggled up on sofa watching crap TV supposedly to make me feel better physically after op (still not at all right) and now ended up feeling emotionally pants as well. What with This Morning's supposed fertility week making out that all you need is a few tests and all will be fine and dandy; BBC plugging Child of Our TIme with voice over that probably says loads but all I hear is "being a father is all that life's supposed to be" and that's before you see the 101 adverts for mother's day - aggghhhhhhh!!!! What's worse is I'm struggling with all this knowing I at least have been lucky to have been given 1 miracle so can't imagine what it's doing to others out there.

lesley - hope things bit calmer with DP today. You're at worst point right now as the reality of your friend's baby being born is here hitting you in the face. Her life up until now has copied yours but this is the one thing you've longed for in a way that a lovely house, great holidays can never match up to. That gap in your life hasn't actually got any bigger it's just having a giant spot light shone on it at the minute. With time you'll be able to cope better I promise   
As for DP, I'm sure he can see the pain in you're in right now but he's powerless to change it. Most men just seem to get angry and frustrated when they can't help us and then seem to occupy enemy camp. He does still love you and it's quite probably the fact that to get that baby you want there's a lot of clinic time involved and pressure on him to support you and do the right thing. I do think we have to suffer far more during IVF but there is also the issue that when you see someone you love in pain you'd actually rather take their place - so perhaps I've some sympathy for men too (just don't let on to DH!!!)
My relationship has really suffered due to fact it's been nearly 10 years we started TTC - in fact someone looking in would probably wonder why we even call it a relationship! Our arguements are bigger at times when I actually need him the most but I've just come to accept we view this process differently. For my DH if I said tomorrow to stop he'd be almost pleased and wouldn't take him long to get over the sadness he felt about fact there would be no more children. For me, I can't see how I'll ever accept the last step - supposedly already taken that one back in Oct & look where I am still!!! I know financially we can't continue much longer but also know that I've no idea how I'll cope with stopping cos DH will have no concept of my feelings and why I can't switch them off. He wouldn't come to counselling after losing the twins so can't see any chance of him doing that when his feelings are all ok.

moom - know that feeling only too well, nearly as bad as the "you've just the one child then" comment from people you meet - harmless in itself but just enough to stay in your head for minimum of 24 hours reminding you of what you haven't got  

ronnie - do hope your AF ends soon, you must be so sick of it not to mention fed up of feeling extra down due to hormones  

hopeful - keep yourself fixed on the positives you and DP/DH had come up with and get back to talking about that alternative future and the treats you deserve. I don't think it's possible to ever fully forget how much you'd love a baby but equally I do know that the level of sadness will decrease over time. Happiness in some form will reach you, just may take its time and be in form you didn't expect  

kirsty - you're sounding a bit brighter this week. Hope you get sensible advice at your review and can find a good way to move forward. It's all those "what ifs" that are the hardest to deal with.
Enjoy the weekend in Poole - a break by the coast is always a good way to clear head of too many thoughts  

debs - good luck again for your trip to Serum at the weekend    

smallpeanut - hope you're doing ok  

cornwall, karen and anyone else I've forgotten big hugs too


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## fififi

ronnie - just seen the comment you posted yesterday about stats given on This Morning. Ignore them as they are a very general stat. Your clinic knows your body better.
I was told that for age 40-44 you should expect between 5 and 15% chance but this will differ depending on AMH and amount/quality of eggs collected. My previous clinic had said only a 5% chance age 39. For me following 3 IVF cycles with my new clinic they say for us we've a 15% chance still with OE, but then added to this is the 40/50% chance of MC.


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## dizzymorris

Hi 

I've not posted for a long time, I hope you dont mind. I'll do a quick rundown for everyone, My name is Becky and I'm 40. I have a 2.5 year old girl by DET through IM in Barcelona. I've just had a bfn from another go, this time with FIV Marbella and am gutted    I know I have Beth and she is my world but I really thought that it would work again. I'm so angry with the clinic, I had a few bleeding issues but treatment went ahead and now I feel cheated as they are trying to now blame my partners sperm quality!! This is after telling me what a magnificent sample he had given!! Arrgghhh my head is cabbaged. We have managed to find the money for one more go but I really dont know what to do, if we do go ahead it will be in this country this time. So sorry if I sound selfish, please believe me when I say Beth is my whole world, I am so grateful that I have her but am I wrong to want another child? Head really is in bits   Any advice would be very much appreciated xx


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## fififi

dizzy - sorry to see you've had to come back to us but welcome if you know what I mean   
It's so hard not knowing why a cycle hasn't really worked and even more stressful when the clinic seem to be saying contradictory things. Seems a few of ladies on here have had that. Do hope you find a clinic better suited to your needs and one who is at least open and honest as you have your cycle.
It's early days for you at the moment so take care of you and allow yourself to be angry/sad etc. You've been through tough few weeks and yet have had to return to everyday life with a bump and immediately throw yourself into things again. (Facing baby friends is extra hard as if you're like me most have no idea that babies don't just pop out.)   

PS. If you want to talk/let off some steam about how you're feeling re TTCno2 free to PM me as I don't feel comfortable talking about that side of things on this thread but equally having spent last 4 years trying everything I can to produce a sibling for my DD I know how painful it is and am more than happy to lend an ear for someone else in similar boat.


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## dizzymorris

Thanks fififi I think I just needed to vent after the email from clinic   I'll be a little more careful where I post next time, hope I haven't offended anyone being so insensitive xx


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## Ronnie3007

*Dizzy* I have had 4 normal pregnancies but now would like to have a child with my new DH. If I had known that my ex would go on and have an affair I would never have had my tubes clipped! So now after having 1 failed cycle of IVF we are now looking at the reversal, at least then we get a chance every month. I don't think it makes any difference whether you have 1 or none, the need to have a child is still the same. Wishing you lots of luck   

*AFM* I was on 3 x a day progesterone pessaries, has anyone else had this dosage and if so how did you feel in yourself during the following weeks after stopping them. I feel terrible, headaches, tiredness, up every 2 hours for the loo, body temp keeps going up and my appetite is non existent


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## fififi

Dizzy - what you posted was fine, don't worry about that. I just meant that if you wanted to chat in more detail on the implications of failed IVF when you've a LO already that it would be better elsewhere. Sorry if my post caused you to feel bad, really wasn't my intention. Everyone on here is so supportive and all can understand the pain of failed attempts no matter what your previous history.
There's a few of us looking at DE in UK for our next cycle but we're at early stages as yet. The experienced ones amongst us seem to all be at overseas clinics.

Ronnie - I upped pessaries to 3 a day when got early bleed but didn't notice.the effects lasting much longer than normal and certainly not to the extent you're getting. Have you contacted your clinic as such a long AF doesn't sound right either.
Hope you start feeling better soon


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## hopeful68

Kirsty - Poole hey, that is where i am!! however this Saturday i will be in A&E doing course work for at least 6 hours - i need to assess 2 more knees and a shoulder and one port folio is done!! then a few more bits for the other portfolio! - in some ways this course has been a god send of a distraction!! - i will almost miss it when it is done - i may have more time to dwell and take backwards steps! 

This may sound odd.... with out sounding awful, my grand father (90 in April!!) is reasonably well off, and i keep thinking about what might come my way in terms of ££ and if it will be too late for a cycle - love him to bits and want him to go on for ever (in fact it is only a pacemaker keeping him going at the moment, if they turn it off to test it his heart stops!!- scarey thought!- but the battery has 10 years on it!!)...... then i change tack of thought and think what is the point of me getting any ££ as i wont have anyone to leave it to other than my brothers kids. - see still not over it completely lesley!!

i dont think any of us will ever but completely 'whole' we just need to find void fillers! perhaps (and this will be random!) getting involved in childrens' lives in a way that helps them blossom will be reward enough, for some of us??! even considering fostering, but i think you basically have to give up work! - no bad thing!! 

welcome to the new ladies. we are all on the journey together just different start and end points.

Hugs to you all.


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## hopeful68

Quote for the day:

Dont confuse your path with your destination. Just because it is stormy now, doesn't mean you aren't headed for sunshine.

a friend's post of **! very apt for us......


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## fififi

Like the quote


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## Ronnie3007

*Fifi* I have not spoken to the clinic. We have a gynae appt on Friday so am going to ask her about this. I feel very rough and my appetite has dropped off the scale. Hoping for a scan to check all is ok. Every time i have seen her she has scanned me so fingers crossed for this time.

*Hopeful* Loving the quote. Did you know we set up an ** secret page for all the fertility girls? If you are interested I will need you to send me a friend request so that I can add you to the page. Let me know xx 

*Simone* Hope your eye is getting better hun  Heavenly kisses to Isaac


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## dizzymorris

Thanks Fififi don't worry you didn't make me feel bad hun, just realised I should have looked more closely at where I was posting! I shall certainly make use of fertility friends now I'm back on here. If anyone wants to know about anything I've gone thru don't hesitate to message me. I wish you all love and luck guys! Off to go look at the forums ff has I'm sure I'll be catching up with you soon xx


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## Mish3434

Hi Ladies, Would you like me to start a TTC siblings thread in the Pregnancy and Parenting area of the Over 40's?

Shelley x


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## Sushi Lover

*Fifi*...... yes, I agree... a lot of us are finding things tough at the moment. I feel a little better thanks.. just time really isn't it? Also I've had lots of other things going on in terms of sorting out our finances so it's a distraction (not sure a welcome one though  ) Going down to Poole tomorrow on my own so maybe that's a good way to clear my head. Will have a brisk walk by the sea to blow some cobwebs away. Sorry to hear you still aren't feeling great after the op. That can drag you down mentally as well. This fertility week crap on This Morning sounds rubbish! I bet you wanted to phone up and tell them exactly how it is?!

*Dizzy*.... hello to you. Nice to 'meet' you! It is so annoying and frustrating when these clinics come up with reasons for it failing AFTER the event... when all the way along they encourage and build you up. Fancy telling you DP's sample was great beforehand and then blaming that for the failure afterwards! It's like just look for excuses. Of course you aren't selfish. It's not wrong at all to want another child. I feel for you and wish I could give you some advice, but unfortunately my story is full of BFNs and negative experiences.. wish I could give you a positive story to work with.. maybe someday.. I have had a good experience with a clinic called CRM in London. They haven't helped me achieve the elusive BFP .. yet, but Mr Forman is fantastic and has been practising IVF for longer than any one else in the UK. Why don't you book an appt to see him? I believe the DE waiting list is 3 - 6 months. Longest wait 9 months. http://www.ivfcliniclondon.com/ Actually, I have my follow-up appt next week so will ask questions about DE. If you want me to ask anything specific just let me know. Nobody would be offended by your post, I promise. If Fifi has suggested a different thread that will be more suitable then that's fine. We are happy for you to join in on here as well though.

*Ronnie*... how are you feeling hun? I still feel tired and headachey too... plus stomach cramps and nausea. It takes a while for our bodies to return to normal after so much trauma/drugs with the IVF process. Give yourself time and eat nice foods.

*Hopeful*.... how funny! My cousin works at Poole hospital... is that where you are based? Coffee another time maybe. I'm tempted to take myself down to that cafe at Sandbanks tomorrow or Sat with a few trashy mags for a cappuccino. Bless your Grandad... mine was 100 two weeks ago! Problem is all his money is going into his care now... which I don't mind a bit. He needs good care at his time of life. How about taking out a loan with the option of paying it back when your Gramps passes away? Awful that we are discussing this! You really don't want that to happen sooner rather than later as Grandparents are so special. No chance of me giving up work with the debts I now have to pay off! The quote is lovely.

How is everyone else today? *Moomin, Les, Roxy, Debs, HavingitAll, SP, Karen, Cornwall, MJ, Cooljules*.... hi girls xx

*Shelley*... although it's not something for me, I know other girls would find it useful xx

/links


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## Ronnie3007

*Kirsty* Still feeling the same . Will be glad when my bod is back to its normalish self lol. Enjoy your seaside stroll 

*Hopeful* I have an Uncle who I will inherit from when he passes. He has helped me out in the past several times but i really do not want to go asking for help with this. I know what u mean about thinking ahead, its only natural 

*Shelley* Sounds like a great idea  

*AFM* Do you think it would be ok to go back to bed?


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Ronnie*... haha, I know it's tempting to go back to bed, but it really will not do you any good in the long run. Fresh air and a nice walk instead to get those endorphins flowing?! xx


----------



## hopeful68

I am not based at Poole but am doing some practical stuff for my course there! Battery going, sorry this is short!


----------



## SmallPeanut

Hello All,

How're you doing *Kirsty*? Are you feeling any better? I really hope the financial stuff is starting to get sorted and you have an action plan, when is your follow up appointment (sorry I've been off the forum for a few days and lost track), have you thought about next steps yet? Enjoy a bit of time by the sea, it's always good for the soul. 

*Ronnie*, I've had exactly the same feelings about taking to my bed, unfortunately I acted on them and have been off work and in bed all week! Can't quite get the motivation or energy to move. I hope your AF has finally stopped, wishing you luck at your appointment tomorrow, hope it all goes well.

I love the quote *Hopeful* and I agree, I'm not sure I'll ever feel whole with the realisation that I'm never going to be a mother, but I guess other things come along to fill the void eventually.

*FiFi*, I know how you feel, we've been TTC for nearly as long as you and your DH, and I get the distinct impression that even though my DH was so gutted last week when we got our BFN and we were both in floods of tears, he seems to have moved on already...either that or he's very good at hiding his feelings. I'm still a mess knowing that we'll never be parents and he seems to have come to terms with it and is finding all sorts of things that we can do that we couldn't do if we had children (of course I have to give him the benefit of the doubt as he could be just trying to keep my spirits up). They're a different breed men and handle things completely differently, I truly believe that they don't have the same kind of maternal/paternal yearning like we do.

Hi *Dizzy*, so sorry your clinic has been backtracking and trying to blame the sperm sample after telling you it was great, they have a knack of keep telling you how great everything is which I think builds us up a bit too much which then is a bigger blow if it doesn't work out. Good luck with whatever you decide to do next.

*Lesley*, blocking the friend on ******** is a good idea, I didn't know you could do that...though to be honest my timeline seems to be filled with loads of baby pics and scans so I'm just avoiding it altogether.

*Moomin*, it must be really hard to be around loads of children and babies the whole time, at least me and DH can avoid children's birthday parties and suchlike, in fact friends have stopped asking us, our excuses must have been a bit flimsy  So sorry to hear about the 'family ticket' thing, people don't do it on purpose but it hurts all the same, I still haven't got the hang of what to say when someone I've just met asks "Do you have children" I don't feel I can just say "no" and leave it at that, I always feel like I need to explain, but of course I never do.

Sorry if I've forgotten anyone, I haven't been on here for a couple days.

*AFM* - Well I'm still wallowing if the truth be known, I can't face work and I haven't really managed to get out of bed much this week...does anyone else feel completely exhuasted, lethargic, headachy and not want to do anything? I didn't know whether this was a side effect of the drugs in my system or whether I'm just feeling so low it's having a physical effect. Anyway, of course once we've realised that we're never going to be parents, there are children and babies on every advert, every TV program shows happy families and there's much talk of Mother's Day... it's absolutely unavoidable so I'd better just get used to it.

Sorry for the miserable post, I'm really hoping this gloom will start to lift soon, I'm thinking of taking up the clinic on a couple of sessions of counselling...if I can be bothered to get out of bed that is, ha!


----------



## hopeful68

smallpeanut (and any one else!)- it is very easy to get medically depressed after treatment (now Tx). i most definately was - dwelling on my own thoughts and lethargic, gained weight, ate rubbish, ignored friends, always tired, constapated (even after the booty bombs stopped). fortunately i recognised it in myself before i got too far down the self pity/destruct path. we are all vulnerable after this tx, it is only natural to grieve whether you got a BFN, or a BFP followed by a MC the intense emotions will take some time to calm down - it is literally like loosing a family member - one we never met but had a strong bond with. once we recognise it in ourselves we can try and fix it. ignoring it wont make it go away.

For those with it really bad perhaps councilling may help? the clinics really dont support us after the BFN and really this is the time we need it most. although this site is great to vent and exchange info and offer and get support - i had to step away to get my head right - or a bit more right, not perfect yet!- as this just kept reminding me of Tx and all the hope i had.

sorry if that is a bit deep for the morning! i actually logged in to put my meter readings in but their site is down!! ah well off to work now, have a good day everyone! think positive thoughts and smile several times a day - it actually realses happy drugs into your system so can make you feel happier, even if you had to force the smile!!


----------



## Ronnie3007

Hiya, well we could have it done free if she refers me saying that they need to come off due to monthly pain.  The chances of ectopic are very high so she was quite concerned about that. Really dont know what to do now.  Wish we could get an interest free loan for IVF cos I would do it again or be able to pay off in instalments  .  So confused


----------



## MJ1

Hi Ladies,

Just thought I would say 'hi', still here just not posting much as not really much going on.   is looming now and will be here tomorrow I can just feel it and thank you for all your banners telling it to s** off... but alas I think it is looming.
Not feeling very upbeat today, another month gone and 43 is creeeping ever closer. Maybe I will feel better when we get our letter from the Lister and see where we are in the queue!. Sorry for the me post but there has been so much going on here I don't know where to start  
Have a great weekend girls and keep smiling   
Love MJ1 xxxxx


----------



## Mish3434

Ladies,

I've started a new thread in the PAPAI area of the Over 40's for those of you TTC a sibling

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=302692.new#new

Love and babydust to everyone no matter what stage of the journey you are on

Shelley xx


----------



## deblovescats

hi girls
not been online as I've been over to Athens and didn't have laptop as it's been playing up! 
Had my appt at serum - no worries - found everything as instructed on the directions page! Brilliant directions. Got a cheap flight thanks to my sister working for BA! 
Consult was fine - Penny was really lovely, but I'm now confused as to how to progress. She's happy for me to go ahead but said I first need a hysteroscopy as she thinks theres a blockage in the uterus - either scar tissue or a septum I was born with. The UK clinic I went to said my uterus was retroverted but this wouldn't cause a problem. He never mentioned the septum so unsure whether he missed it or whether Penny has misread it. I couldn't go ahead with the op anyway as had to get back to the UK as my mother has a medical appointment for her eyes and can't drive (she has macular degeneration in her left eye and has to have injections in it). My sister doesn't drive! I've decided to try and get a scan via the GP and see if they can see a problem and if so, see if I can have it removed on the NHS! We pay enough out. If not, and I have got a blockage, would maybe have to pay for it to be removed. A bit frustrated! At least I've done the run to Athens without issues - metro from the airport and bus back to the airport were really cheap. Stayed at the President Hotel - very close to the clinic.
Deb


----------



## Coolish

*Debs* - sounds like you had a good visit. I'm no hysto expert, but have a look on the Athen's hysto thread to see ther people's experiences. There are lots of stories there about ladies that have had a hysto in Spain or the UK only to see a DVD of their Athen's hysto and see blockages and scar tissue being removed by the surgeon that that didn't even know they had.

On a lighter note - I'm staying at the President too this week. Any tips?


----------



## Ronnie3007

So pleased to be feeling more human today after 2 weeks of headaches etc. Hopefully my body is getting back to normal now. Hope everyone has a great day and that the sun is shining whereever you are


----------



## LellyLupin

Hi girls  

Kirsty I wish you would come round and wring DPs neck.  He is in sunny mode at the moment talking about when we retire and what we will be able to afford without kids, trouble is I cannot get past wanting a family.   At the moment I am bottling everything up but I know eventually I will explode.  I still haven't seen the new baby, I have made every excuse under the sun, I am just not ready.  Fifi/Peanut I see you are both in the boat as me, my DP would be ecstatic too  if I just said lets give up and move on, its easier said than done though  Peanut I think all of us should go for a group therapy session in moving on  .  I haven't taken to my bed yet as Hopeful is right we can get dragged down into depression and I really dont want that to happen, I know I am lucky in having what I do have, its my friend having her baby that has sent me spiralling.  I wasn't ready mentally for the high she is on and although I know she is trying to involve me by sending me pictures they just cause me so much pain.  I want to see the baby to get it over with but I am frightened I break down in tears in front of her and her husband.  I need to be in a bright and breezy mood when I go so I can win an Oscar for my 'delighted for them' acting, when really I just want to throttle them  

Hmm re: Mike/Shelly - things have taken a sinister turn so at the moment Mike and I are estranged.  After all the support we have been giving him he slapped one of the girls on the backside (dressed as Shelly) and then sent her a suggestive text at 8pm while she was sat at home with her husband.   I am afraid my view of Mike has now changed to thinking he is some sort of pervert.  I no longer believe its a gender issue, I think he is getting a huge kick out of the attention.  Re his hair, no he doesn't wear a wig, he usually wears an alice band.  He came to work all dolled up on Friday with a skirt and patterned tights on, usually I would tell him he looked nice and make a bit of a fuss about his outfit but not anymore, none of us are happy with him at the moment.

Debs glad you found it easy to get to Pennys, apart from the hysteroscopy did she say anything about age and old eggs like they do over here? Are you going OE or DE?  It will be interesting to see what your GP says about your suspected blockage, did you feel like you trusted Penny straight away.  Look at me interogating you, sorry Debs I just would love to go see Penny myself shes seems to be some sort of guru.  Hope you Mum is ok I went to see mine today and shes in stubborn mode again not taking her medication    Wish we could all get together for a proper chin wag


----------



## deblovescats

hi girls
lesley - mike does seem a bit of a creep doesn't he? Its so irritating that you've been giving him so much support, he seems to be taking advantage! 
I did trust Penny - liked her at once, just feel torn as it didn't get mentioned at the UK clinic I attended - they mentioned the two small fibroids which wouldn't have an impact on implantation. Penny also said they weren't a problem. I know that I have a retroverted uterus which also would not have an impact. I keep thinking did Penny see something the UK consultant didn't see, in which case I'd be annoyed, or has she misread it. Not that I want to doubt her. She gives out very positive vibes, and said she'd be happy to go ahead as everything else looked good. I didn't get round to discussing OE or DE as she wanted to sort out this problem first. I think the issue for me is the financial aspect - it's on top of the treatment, but I can see Penny's point, if there is a problem, it might be a waste of money to have tx withouth sorting this out. Feeling very torn. Got my holiday to Cape Town on Monday, but naturally, I'm ill!! Typical. Been looking forward to it, but got a cold which has settled on my chest! I was thinking of getting it checked out on a scan via GP to get a third opinion. The other problem is the exchange rate. Penny has kept her prices the same for ages, but due to exchange rate, it doesn't at the moment work out a lot cheaper than UK, but then again, it might change. Also, maybe got more faith in Penny. Will mull it over on my hols.
Would be good if we could all meet up to share experiences!
Deb


----------



## karen71

Hi again  . I've not been here much or recently, and feel abit guilty as quite a few of you on here, helped me through my last ivf tx, but I do think of you alot. I hope you and anyone on here I don't know is doing ok  . I'm not to bad, nearly finished the longest af, I've had for ages! with the worst pain I think I've ever had as well  
Emotionally I still haven't cried etc much, which for me seems wrong because I'm a very emotional person, it's hard to explain how I feel, kind of like I'm in shock still. Is that my body helping me cope maybe? Last week we went to see the gyno, it went ok and he seemed alot more friendly this time, which really helped. He said I've got to wait until I've had at least one more af, then we can start again whenever we want. So hopefully that will give us time to get abit of money etc. The only thing that I didn't realise was, we will have to make the choice to have either all 4 embies or 2 defrosted, and the worse that they might not survive it!  I was so relying on having more chances, but we could end up with just one more. I know its more than some people get, but it's abit of a shock.


----------



## deblovescats

hi jules
good luck with your appointment - Penny is very nice and very encouraging!
President was fine - as I'm travelling on my own this time, got a single room rate of £48 plus breakfast at about £3 so I was mega pleased. For that, I got a double room. The decor's old fashioned, but perfectly adequate! Got a large bathroom, plus free toiletries, TV etc. It's very central for Amelokipi metro station, just head down street and turn righ, you see a sign looming over head for President Hotel! Also, to get to Serum, turn left out of hotel and head towards the American Intercontinental Tower and then past New York sandwiches - it's exactly as described in Serum's directions. Spot on with directions. Then easy to get the bus back to airport for 5 euros.
I'm off on holiday tomorrow, hoping i feel better when i get travelling, typical for me to have a streaming cold and chest infection!
My little fur baby Timmy seems to know I'm  going away - he's especially loving and cuddly! Had to get into bed with me! Anyway, my aunt is coming to look after him, so she doesn't have to go in a cattery, which he hates! He likes my aunt and gets to stay in his own house
Deb


----------



## fififi

Hi all ...

Debs - have a wonderful holiday and make most of the warmth in SA. Hope your cold passes quickly. Glad your Aunt is coming to house & cat sit - makes the worry much smaller when away. Suggest you forget about all things TX including us lot and totally relax.
I think with a little time away you'll make a decision re hysteroscopy. It's always hard knowing which way to turn when giving differing advice. If you can manage to pay for it in Athens then I'd suggest doing it as you don't want to be left with what ifs  

Karen - think you're in need of few hugs as your last AF sounds horrible on top of all those other stresses   
Glad you've a bit of time to get back into a better place physically & emotionally. It's a tough call on how many embryos to defrost. Obviously there's the risk they won't defrost but if you just did 2 at first would it be a lot more money to potentially have a cancelled cycle then do another soon after? If you feel you can cope emotionally with that I think that's what I'd do. Oh, and rather than worry they won't defrost consider it from angle that if all 4 defrost then you will not be able to use them  

Lesley - hope you're managing ok & feeling bit more in control of the huge emotional roller coaster of last few weeks. Been thinking of you lots  
Strange that Mike has acted in that way - seems he just wants to alienate people and end up in work tribunal. Not good news.

Ronnie - glad you're feeling little better. Hope now the pain has gone you'll be able to continue feeling brighter  

Cool joules - good luck with your appointment 

MJ - hope you were mistaken about AF. When's your birthday? The painful 43 really hits hard when TTC.
Hope you hear from clinic soon as to when you might expect donor to be matched  
We're having donor counselling appointment Tuesday so hoping that will clarify the few questions/worries I have and enable us to start moving onwards quickly. Think I'll need more bloods doing as have to be updated every 12 months at my clinic which is a pain - and costly at that!

Smallpeanut - hope you're feeling little more upbeat now than earlier in week. Thank you for your comments - it's reassuring to know I'm not the only one who's partner isn't fully on board, or at least wouldn't take that long to return to normal life should this journey fail.

Can't read back any further so big hi & hugs to those I've missed   

AFM - feeling much better now & even managed to be awake all day today without a nap so hoping to return to work Weds as signed off until then. Pain is mild but thankfully the wounds have started healing so no longer bleeding. Bit concerned that my belly quite swollen still but hoping that settles in next week or so. Seems strange you don't get physical check up after surgery. Having review appointment on 19th.


----------



## artist_mum

hi
a quickie post to say hello and I"m afraid I don't know where to start in writing a personal message to you all, I seem to have fallen behind somewhat!  So just to wish you all well and I hope your week brings some forward steps in your journey

we are on count down to our Barcelona trip and the FET, leaving Monday 11th so not long now.

I have yet another essay to hand in this week (the last one of the whole degree!) hence getting my head down so sorry to be brief.. but sending   to you all

Roxy xx


----------



## fififi

roxy - lots of luck with FET in case I forget to post again before you go    
Hope you get your essay finished and in - big happiness once that's done I bet!!! You're nearly there  


Question for people in general:
Has anyone used Clearblue Fertility Monitor? Seems quite expensive compared with standard ovulation tests so wondering if it's worth the difference?
Thanks x


----------



## Moominmum

Hi All,7

Just a quick one.

*Fififi* I use one and yes it is pricey. But I got one (new) from eBay for £50 and then I buy the sticks themselves from Amazon. It gives you a bit more info than normal tests (I think). It tells you if your levels are 1 bar, 2 bars and 3 bars. 3 bars meaning that OV is within the next 24-48 hours. 2 bars means that the levels is starting to increase and you could possible conceive during that period. You use more sticks for the monitor in the beginning but once it starts to know your body you will need to use less and a pack of 20 stocks will last longer... I find it useful, but of course it hasn't worked yet! But I like that it gives me a little bit more info than normal tests and that I don't have to second guess any reading of the sticks...


----------



## fififi

Thanks for your comments moom,
Last night a very kind FF lady offered me her monitor for free so it's just the sticks to buy so think it'll be worth trying. There's a thread in over 40's called something like natural BFP after 40 and several of the ladies on there seem to believe the monitor helped them so am going to give it a go.
Here's hoping I manage the dream and can turn this year into a smily one afterall      ... plus what would be even better is if we all managed to achieve the dream so will wish even harder cos would be soooo fab to share that level of joy                

Happy Monday to all xxxxx


----------



## MJ1

Hi Ladies,

*Fififi,* thanks for your message. Oh wow your app tomorow.. good luck hun, take it all in and ask lots of questions. Yes we need to have all our bloods done again too, ho hum, comes with the territory doesn't it. 
I used to use a CBFM but didn't bring me any joy.... hope it does for you hun 

*Roxy,* Countdown is on for next week then, sending you lots of luck . I know what you mean about losing the thread.... I didn't know where to start at the weekend when I logged on.

Hi to *Moomin, Lesley, Hopeful, Kirsty, Debs & Cool Jules*!

AFM  arrived yesterday........ aghhhhhhhhhhh why... winds me up so much. Hoping that letter arrives soon.

Love MJ1 xxxxxx


----------



## Ronnie3007

Well after seeing you all mention the ovulation sticks I think I might have to invest in some of that.  Will be making call to gynae tomorrow to confirm my wish to have reversal done. DH feeling quite stressed by the thought of me having to have an op but I am chilled


----------



## magz1

hi ronnie, what did your gynae advise about tubular reversal?? what kind of stats did he give you? will they do it free or how much will it cost?? i`m supposed to start treatment april magz xxxxxx


----------



## Ronnie3007

*Magz*Hiya . She was not keen on the idea due to the high risk of ectopic but has agreed to refer me for the op and will do it in a way so that we don't have to pay. She will tell the hospital that i have had monthly pain since it was done and they should be removed. I am double checking with her tomorrow that they will remove clips and open up/repair tubes if they are fused together. So at the moment it was great news on the financial side. Also if I fall pg they will scan me as soon as i get a BFP to check location. No stats given but there is enough info on the internet for that info. The stats I found work out higher than IVF so I feel its worth the chance.

April is only round the corner, that will soon be here


----------



## Minx52

Hi ladies, sorry I've not been on here for a while, been licking my wounds!

We've got an appointment with Penny at Serum on Friday, can't wait to he's her thoughts on where we can go next. 

Debs/Jules - please can I pick your brains on the best way to get to Serum from the airport? We're heading straight there after we land, can we get a bus/the metro?

Fifi - I've used the CB fertility monitor, it's good, especially if you think you ovulate at slightly different times each month. I had a natural pregnancy after a few months of using it (unfortunately that ended I'm MC). Afte the first month or two you can get away with about 5/6 sticks.

Minx x x


----------



## Ronnie3007

Hi Girls well I am grinning from ear to ear today!  My gynae has done the referral for me and is recommending that they check the tubes are open after the clip removal and that I have no sign of endometriosis, just incase this is the reason why the IVF did not work.  It is also FREEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!  Soooooo excited


----------



## magz1

so happy for you ronnie magz xxxxxx


----------



## magz1

sorry ronnie when will they do the operation?? magz xxxxxx


----------



## Ronnie3007

*Magz* I have to ring the hospital for the consultation appt, knowing how fast they get things sorted over here I am hoping its done by the beginning of April  xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Ronnie*... so pleased to hear that! It's lovely to get something free these days as everything else regarding our treatment is so expensive. I hope it does the trick for you.

xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hi to all my lovely friends, sorry I've not posted for a few days.

*SP*.... I was feeling better and then this week has taken a bit of a nose-dive. Feeling very up and down. Horrible isn't it? I have a counselling session tonight with DP at the clinic and then a follow-up with consultant tomorrow night. Starting to get the financial side of things sorted... but it's horrifying thinking about paying everything back.  Sorry to hear you are also feeling down still. Totally understandable. I have felt the same as you K... so tired and a headache that just won't budge. Complete lack of drive to do anything. I think we are going through a small depression phase. Mother's Day coming up doesn't help I know. Also, advert on the radio for 'almost a mother on mother's day'.. what is that all about?! Screamed at the bloody car radio "no, not a mother and not 'almost a mother' either so f**k off" !!! What will they think of next. Are you back at work this week?

*Hopeful*.... hiya, I'm having a counselling session tonight to see if it helps a bit. How are you?

*Debs*.... glad your consultation with Penny went well. Can I ask.... if it's not too much of a personal question..what's the septum thing you were born with? Thanks for all the info re the metro, buses and hotel. Very useful to know how easy the whole process was. Have a wonderful holiday in SA!

*Cooljules*.... good luck for your appointment! Lots of ladies going to Serum this month and last. Can't wait to hear all the details/advice and info from Penny.

*Lesley*....I can quite understand why you haven't seen your friend's new baby... must be so hard. The Mike/Shelley thing has really taken a different turn then... fancy him slapping one of the girls bums! Sounds like a total fetish to me... this dressing up thing.

*karen*... Glad to hear from you. Sounds like you are in shock if you haven't cried much. I'm the opposite and can't stop. That is a problem with frozen embryos... the survival rate. That's why my consultant told me to save my money for a fresh cycle. Can you not have 2 defrosted first, see how they do... then if they don't make it, defrost the other 2?

*Fififi*.... Glad you are feeling better lovie. You've really been through the mill. Best of luck for your donor consultation! let us know how it goes. Can't wait to hear all the answers to your questions as I know you'll have loads of really good ones. yes, I use the CBFM. It's helpful with the 'high' and 'peak' days as not every cycle is the same. I really like it. How lovely a lady offered you one for free.

*Roxy*... how exciting that you go to Barcelona in 6 days time! I wish you so much luck.

*MJ.*...sorry about AF arriving. It never gets easier. Praying your letter turns up soon.

*Magz*.. are you starting treatment in the UK or abroad?

*Minx*.... wow, best of luck with your Serum appointment. You must be so excited. Looking forward to hearing all about it when you are back.

*AFM*... feeling a bit up and down this week... so I'm not 'fixed' yet following the BFN  Counselling tonight and follow-up tomorrow.. maybe I'll feel better after these appts.

xxx


----------



## Ronnie3007

*Kirsty* Good luck with your appts, hope they help to ease the low feeling you have. If I did not have this glimmer of hope with the clips I think I would be crying everyday. It is such a hard thing to move on from.


----------



## MJ1

Kirsty, thanks Hun, still checking the mat for my letter each day. Good luck with your counselling session I hope it went well. 
Love MJ1xxxxxxx


----------



## fififi

kirsty - hope you felt counselling helped and you're feeling little better knowing you've got some of those feelings out.     Also think it's great you & DP are going together as at least he will hear your true feelings in a non confrontational way. (Counselling at my clinic is daytime only so DH can't justify time off work - despite the fact I think it would probably have helped us both if he had.)
Hope you get some answers at your consultation tomorrow and come away feeling confident as what treatment is best for you & DP to consider next.
- I'm really astonished at fellow FF lady's kindness in sending me her CB monitor for free. Plus in my slightly odd head that's given me extra hope it could be beneficial for me as it's full of good karma!!!    

ronnie - yeah, that's really good news!!!! That glimmer of hope is worth hanging on to cos might be what makes all the difference. It was only having my lap that discovered natural possibilities until now had actually been zero rather than 10% so now with my refurbished interior my hope has had a well needed boost.

mj1 - hoping you get news soon hun  
Most frustrating that bloods all need repeating - not sure my GP will agree to them again as been asking so much lately. Were you able to go on list immediately or did clinic need blood results first?

minx - hope your appointment goes well (& you find Serum ok!!!)

Hi everyone else - in bit of rush tonight as soooooo tired so not up to many personals sorry x

AFM: DE counselling implications session went well & I've come away feeling certain that if we do decide that this is right next step for us our clinic meets our needs. Currently the majority of their donors are altruistic & under 30, many of whom have children of their own already so that was encouraging. Plus wait list is between 3 & 6 months so not too bad. Having done lots of research over last few weeks there wasn't much I hadn't already thought about but it was good to have DH with me as now it's fueling an opportunity for us both to talk about whether this is right move for us or not. I'm currently 90% certain but want to sleep on it for a day or so before making final phone call & paying the crazy sum of £450 to go on a list!!!! (And I thought the directory enquiries list was expensive to access!!!)
If we do decide to go for it the next step is deciding which characteristics are important to us. We were told that often people opt for characteristics that match male rather than female if their characteristics are more common and/or stronger. So that's the next dilemma I guess.
Off to bed now - am shattered not having had nap today and needing to be at appointments in different cities!!! Saw my GP today as well & he's signed me off until end of week as felt I wasn't physically ready for work. Little worried about having more time off work but at same time feel very relieved I don't have to face that until next week now.
Night x


----------



## MJ1

*
Fififi, * Glad that all went well and you sound very together. We are on the list the bloods can be done at a later stage as our list is 6-9 months so no panic for that. As long as you have paid your £450 then you are on the list. I know what you mean re characteristics, DH and I both have blue eyes, browm hair, small build etc but as his genes will be in our baby we went for the characteristics similar to me 

*Kirsty,* hope all went well yesterday hun.

Hi to everyone 

At work so must go....
MJ1 xxx


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Ronnie, MJ* and* Fifi.*... thanks for your good wishes and luck for my appts.

The counselling session went really well actually. DP was more emotional than me... poured his heart out about how the failed treatments have affected him and especially about the money problems and the debt he's got us into. How he feels he's let me down and can't provide for me. Our men must really struggle as they are meant to be looking after us, emotionally, physically, financially... and yet who is looking after them? Couldn't shut him up! The flood gates really opened up. It really helped both of us. I was so pleased he didn't clam up and let me do the talking. I was able to explain how I felt without it being confrontational and he really listened. We came out feeling tired, but rejuvenated and closer than we've ever been before. 

The counsellor does special egg donation sessions and we touched briefly on that... she was saying try not to focus on the 'not genetically mine' worry and that a baby will only exist because you both want it to. Chances are the egg donator will already be donating and the only way her eggs will become our baby is through DP's input and my womb, blood and nutrients feeding it and helping it grow and develop. Also, being a mother is so much more than having your genes within an egg. I found it all so helpful.

*Fifi*... glad your DE session went well. 90% certain is brilliant hun. Sounds like you are so close to making that final decision. Perhaps in the back of your mind you've already decided? Very exciting. The donors all sound great and the waiting list perfectly acceptable. Can I ask... the additional cost for donor eggs.. now I can understand if a lady is egg sharing and you pay for her treatment as well as your own. But where is the extra cost allocated when it's a altruistic donor? I've never thought about finding a match closer to DP than myself. I always thought that it would be better for bonding if the baby looked like you, even though it's not your genes. I suppose if you carry that baby around for 9 months then bonding goes without saying. Especially if it's taken so many years to get to that point. Isn't it best to mix both the characteristics, as in nature, rather than going for just characteristics of DP/DH though? There is a big chance the baby will look like him anyway as it's sperm! Something I hadn't thought about until now to be honest.

xxx


----------



## fififi

Kirsty - glad your counselling went well & both you & DP were able to benefit from it. I think maintaining the relationship with DP/DH is one of the hardest parts of this TTC process.
Do think the men struggle lots too, but from my experience its so hard to persuade hem to seek support.

The additional costs with altruistic DEIVF come from having to pay for her cycle, though still think it's bit cheeky that clinic charges two couples the full cost as they actually receive double payment. Though obviously there's 2 lots of sperm to be filtered then added, plus 2 ET - but there's still quite big profit made there. (At least my clinic is a research centre so profits go back into that rather than someone's pocket!)
I'm amazed that any woman would under go IVF for someone else who they don't even know - they get £750 expenses which doesn't really compensate for 6 weeks of injections & going through EC.

What characteristics to ask for as definitely is a tricky one. I'd much prefer baby to look like me as ultimately what I really want is my OE baby. Not sure where we'll go on that yet as I'm quite tricky to match - hair not common, eyes change colour depending on what I wear (!!!) - so who knows. Only certainty at present is both DH & I are above average height.

My hesitancy now is getting heart to agree with head that this is what we should do. Head sensibly knows this will give us best chance of getting the family we so desperately want. Heart wonders if just one more OE cycle would be the one that works. Heart knows how close we've come & is struggling to let that possibility go as once we've signed up for DE my ever closing window for OE will have shut should I change mind. Aggghhhh, it's really hard - hate having to make these sorts of decisions. Especially when there's no certainty afterwards anyway.


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## Sushi Lover

Hi Fifi,

So where does the extra cost go when a woman just donates her eggs but isn't have treatment of her own?  She only gets £750 expenses, but we pay another £3,000 c. on top.  If there isn't another woman going through IVF who is sharing her eggs with you, then where does that money go?!  Am I missing something here?

That's where I'm confused!  xx


----------



## fififi

Kirsty - she still has to have IVF treatment up to EC, then at that point the collected eggs get handed over to the recipient(s). Also unlike in egg share the clinic provides her drugs. If you do egg share then you fund the treatment & your drugs but donor pays for her drugs.


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## Sushi Lover

Still doesn't seem right that even though she is going through the stimulation process and collection, but not the transfer that we have to pay double though?  As we aren't going through the process ourselves then there is still only one lot of stimulation and collection. i.e. the donor's.  The recipient then just has the transfer and none of the stuff beforehand.  Maybe it's because the recipient needs to be monitored/scanned with regards to their lining etc?  I still think they are being cheeky with the extra amount of money involved.  I can understand another £1,000 or something for scans.. but not £3,000.

xx


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## fififi

Yep, clinics definitely make money where they see opportunity!!! As for the costs of bloods, paperwork, drugs etc. it's so unfair that we all get punished so heavily financially as well as emotionally.


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## Ronnie3007

*Fifi* Sounds like you have loads of thinking to do, I hope you make what is the best decision for both of you. Good Luck and make sure you chill during this time off 

*Kirsty* Sounds like you had a productive appt, well done to your DH for opening up. 

*AFM* Well we have our first appt for the reversal on 9th April, it should have been 25th March but Mikey is at work and they do not speak any English. My fault for not learning German quicker lol. So now have to be patient which is extremely hard for me. My Gynae is wonderful she has said if we get any problems at the clinic regarding the procedure she has asked for we must go straight back to her.


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## karen71

Hi I'm back again . Couldn't get back after last reply and stupid computer keeps going wrong! . Thanks *fififi* for your reply about how many I should defrost, I never thought about it like that, it maybe being better to just defrost 2 and not all 4. Hope things are going ok for you 
* Kirsty* I'm glad it went ok at the counsellor, and it must of been good for both of you that your dp was able to talk about how he felt, I went quite a few times to one before tx, with my sister and with dp, but although my dp went and did talk, I felt he wasn't opening up, he spoke more about my feelings etc, and I would of like him to really open up like yours did. I'm still finding it hard to let out my sadness etc I just seem to be blocking it all off. But I'm thinking about going back again. 
I will catch up with everyone else soon hopefully 
*afm* I'm still the same emotionally, but I hope when I go to the counsellor it will help me. I am upset and angry but it really feels like I'm stopping it all from coming out. Thankfully I've now finished af, though I had abit of pain last night then this evening had abit of a kind of dark discharge, but would that be to do with the ivf still maybe? Of course everything else seems to be going wrong at the moment which isn't what we need, mainly money, I'm hoping things will get better before may when we are hoping to start tx again. Why does it all happen at the same time?


----------



## LellyLupin

Hello girls, sorry I have not posted for a while, have been very up and down and not wanted to burdon you all with it.   I went to see my friends baby, he is so beautiful, very tiny but absolutely perfect.  Totally kept it together while I was there, even managed to hold the baby most of the time too.  Of course my friend breezed the delivery, has zero stretch marks,  and a perfect baby just as I knew she would.   Couldn't help but feel totally resentful of her which I felt a bit guilty about, especially as she had waited until I was there to open the present I had sent her through the post .  Anyway only had a little cry when I got home and DP drove me mad fussing when all I wanted was to be left alone to think, also AF landed just as we got in  .  Haven't seen her since but have texted her, I am trying to be there for her without being there,  if you know what I mean

We set off for the lakes the next dayafter the baby visit for DPs birthday and I actually felt OK for a while.  I thought I had it nailed and had decided not to think about babies for all of the trip.  That lasted for the first day and then a shop assistant who served me had a huge a baby bump and that just really upset me.  I managed to hide it all day even when we went to a cafe and a young girl with twins sat next to us.  But when we got back to the hotel there was a couple there with an 8 week old baby that everyone was making a big fuss of.  Well that was it,  I just burst into floods of tears and fled to our room.  So I managed to ruin DPs birthday despite doing my best to hold it all in.   I am just so sick of myself and this obsession to have a child, I just want to STOP thinking and hoping and accept that its over and there is no chance for me.  I am sick of being on the verge of tears all the time,  why can't I just move on its SO frustrating  

It sounds like you girls have been very busy with appointments and counselling etc.  Debs hope you are enjoying your hols.  Kirst glad your counselling is going ok and your DP managed to open up at last xx.  Yes the Mike situation has taken a not very nice turn, I am very disappointed in him I really am. Feefs thanks for your PMs I am lucky to have you as a friend xx  Hi Roxy how did the last exam go?  Karen hope you are feeling a bit better now    Ronnie hope your op goes well xx  Hi MJ, Minx and Mags, Jules and Hopeful hope you are all doing okxx


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## artist_mum

hi everyone
Long time no post..

*lesley* I'm so sorry to read that you are struggling with these thoughts and emotions, I know it is SO hard, and I knew you were facing this stuff with the friend's baby and all that. It sounds like you've done that bit really well, and its not surprising that your feelings come out elsewhere (like when away with your man on the birthday trip). Just sending you lots of love, it can be so tough this stuff. Thx for asking re the exam.. just finished yesterday (it was another essay) in time for us to get off to Barcelona on Monday. Anyway, just try to take care of yourself in little ways, you know, being kind to you and having treats and maybe time to yourself, i think you have a lot of thoughts to process (like all of us on here I suppose!) and i think this is the hardest part of all this. big  to you

*kirsty* I have been reading from time to time and was so glad to see that you and your man had a good heart to heart at the counsellor. Sounds like a really good session with the info about donor eggs as well, I really hope you two can find your way forward from here with this info. Thanks for the good luck, we are off on Monday so it's come up fast

*fififi* Good to hear that you too had a good session around the DE. I know what you mean about letting go of OE.. altho I was so much older and had already gone for DE, I still went off and did the AMH test just to confirm that I really didn't have a choice. And I didn't, too late for OE. But I know in some ways it is just easier if that option is not there. Anyway, I hope you can make your decision ok. You're so right that without any certainty anyway, it is all so challenging to make a call on it. Good luck!

*mj1* hiya, how are you? Hope your letter comes sooonio! How exciting that will be when it does 

*hopeful, debs, cooljules, moominmum, karen* & everyone else on here - sending you all 

AFM Finished my essay yesterday which was a relief. Been unwell this past 2 weeks with stomache bug then sore throat, cold plus have been up to ARGC for immunes (intralipid + steroids, clexane). So it's been busy and not ideal, but there we are, it's time to go! Our transfer is on Tuesday and we're back home wednesday night. Fingers crossed 

Love to all
Roxy xx


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## LellyLupin

Happy Shouldbe Mothers Day girls    xxx

Hi Roxy fingers are all crossed for you for Tuesday honey,  I  you get your miracle, one of us at least should make it    I bet you are glad your exams are over now you will have more time to commit to being a mum                             

Hi Ella I do genuinely think you have a shot naturally, you body knows how to get pregnant and if you got pregnant so many times when you were so unhealthy,  you must be able to do it again now you are healthy.  My Aunt had a baby at 45 so it can be done.  I think of all of us on here you may be in the best position to be a mum xxx             PS I got a card off my Mother in law to be and a present, nothing from my stepkids not even a text which I am a bit miffed about  

Hope everyone is ok on this most difficult of days


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## MJ1

Hey Ladies,

Hope that you all got through yesterday ok. Had a lovely day with my Mum and sooooo wish I can be a mummy one day.

*Roxy*, good luck for tomorrow hun, will be sending you lots of    

*Lesley, * Sorry you have had a bad few days, thanks for your hugs from MD.. back to you too 

Love to* Kirsty, Cool Jules, Hopeful, Fififi and all the newbies!!*

AFM, still waiting for that letter! when will it arrive.


----------



## Coolish

*Roxy* - just realised that your transfer is tomorrow - good luck XX

*Ella* - that's really sweet of your DP


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## Sushi Lover

Hello ladies, I hope everyone is ok.

I had a rubbish day yesterday. We didn't celebrate Mother's Day at all because my Mum is sunning herself in the Canaries (wish I was, lucky thing!) and DP's Mum sadly passed away 5 years ago. So it felt even more painful not be a Mum myself. Felt sad all day. It didn't help that my parents asked me to put flowers on their Mum's graves for Mother's Day.. so I felt a bit tearful missing my Nan's as well. What a miserable day. Cooked a nice roast chicken in the evening and had massive glass of red wine which went straight to my head!

Welcome to *Ella*, I had a tear too so you aren't the only one. I wasn't keen on DE a year ago, but now I know first-hand just how difficult TTC with OE is at 40/41 I'm starting to have a rethink. I mean, if it's the choice between not being a Mum or being a Mum but with donated eggs it's a no-brainer right?! I hope the healthy lifestyle means you achieve your BFP with your OE though. As Lesley said... your body knows how to get pregnant, so can do so again. I'm never had that luxury unfortunately. DE as a backstop?

*Les*... sorry you didn't hear from your stepkids. They just didn't think I suppose. No excuse.  You did sooooo well with your friend's baby. Proud of you. Must have been tough. Keeping in touch via text sounds good. You aren't deserting her completely that way. How annoying with all those bumps/newborns/small children in the Lakes. The counsellor said this is a typical situtation that can be applied to most things. For example a single woman seeing loads of cuddly couples around Valentine's Day and being reminded she is alone. So I think even though there seems to be multitude of babies and pregnant people around, its more that we are sensitive to it and it's noticeable. Doesn't help I know.  When I went for my blood test to confirm the BFN the nurse that did it was about 6 months pregnant! I mean, talk about rub your nose in it?! They are everywhere hun. Hopefully we'll be one of them some day....

*Roxy*... good luck for your transfer and I'm glad your exam/essay is all done. Thinking of you.

*MJ*... when do you expect the letter to turn up hun? I want it to arrive too!

*Karen*... sorry to hear you are still very low and I hope all the pent-up emotion and anger finds it way out soon. I hope the counselling will help. We've had things going wrong on the money side as well so I know how you feel. It's such a pain we aren't all rich! What have you decided to do with your frozen embryos?

*Ronnie*... glad you appt is all booked up for the reversal.. will come round so quickly.

Hi *Cooljules, Hopeful, Cornwall, Fifi, SP, Moomin* and anyone else reading.

xxx


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## cornwall

Hi everyone,

Sorry to hear so many of you are having a tough time at the moment. I also found Mother's Day hard. My kids live so far away that we didn't see each other and I spent much of the day wondering if DH and I would ever have a chance to be parents together. It's also (probably) my mum's last Mother's Day due to terminal illness so there may be no reason for me to buy a card next year  .

I'm waiting to start my third cycle but the clinic has suggested I have a hysteroscopy and scratch first. I don't think we can afford to take time out to go over to Cyprus for this and then go back again a few weeks later for ET. I've asked around some of the UK clinics/hospitals and the price for private treatment is extortionate!!! Also, I've been reading up about the endo scratch and it only really seems to help women who can't grow a thick lining. My linings have been great both times so maybe it isn't worth having this done. Is it possible to have the hysteroscopy a few days before the ET? We'd only need one visit to Cyprus then. I'm struggling with this because it's delaying the start of my next cycle and I don't know how to resolve the issue.

Like many of you, I thought DEIVF would be straightforward. I've been pregnant before so I thought some young, fresh eggs were all I needed.


----------



## fififi

Hi all ...

Sorry to see that this weekend been extra tough for so many even in relation to being with own mum's.

Ella - welcome and hope you find us some use to you. There's a few of us at the minute in the should I move onto DE debate. Definitely hard to switch from OE to DE as it does feel like you're giving up on your own abilities & yet part of you still believes that with the right cycle OE could work.
Have to say your DP sounds fab - having someone who cares for you that much will definitely make things easier for you to move on together.

Cornwall - from what I was told by my clinic a hysteroscopy pretty much replaces need for scratch. I know you can have hysteroscopy several months ahead but afraid cant advise regarding how much time to leave before. From my hospital notes (I had hysteroscopy 2 weeks ago) it says not to have sex until bleed stopped which took me about 5 days so I'd imagine ET would be the same at least. Also the notes advise you to wait until after next AF to get pg - so perhaps there could be lining issue. Hopefully Cyprus can give you clear information regarding this. Hope you manage to resolve this quickly & get cycling soon 

Kirsty - sorry you had such pants day yesterday   . Hopefully next year will be the complete opposite & your best mums day ever 
How did your review go last week? Have you had any thoughts as to what next?

Roxy - sorry to see youve been unwell but well done on getting that last essay done in time. Now you need to focus on you for a bit. lots of luck for tomorrow     

Mj1 - sorry to see you're still in limbo. Hope you get hat letter soon now  

Lesley -     think you are managing the baby situation really well and although you crumbled whilst away there's lots of pressure on you right now so it's no wonder. Hope DP was able to see it was not intended but that you're struggling with accepting life for you and your friend.
Keep watching out for your feelings not just those of others - you matter too x

Karen - hope things are becoming little clearer for you now you've had some time to ponder. I think any time there's choices to be made causes you to feel a little depressed cos its just not what you really want to choose. I'd love it if the clinic just said baby this month or next? Do hope life stopped throwing other hurdles your way too   

Debs - if you're reading hope you're having a great time in SA 

Moom, cool joules, hopeful - hi & hugs

AFM - back to work this week, though still not right. Had huge stomach pains yesterday & nearly ended up in A&E but in end doctor let me go home to rest. No reason found they just think I over did things but now my head full of worries. Have post op review next week so hoping to get some reassurances there.
Not seen much of DH as he's been busy with work so still not had chat about whether to go on DE list or not. When I spoke with nurse at clinic on Fri she seemed surprised I wasn't going to have another OE cycle so that's thrown my head back into the maybe I'm jumping ship too soon dilemma again. But then my sensible part thinks about the odds, our lack of finances & reminds me that if its one last try don't I want it to be the one that is most likely to work? It's times like now I wish brains couldn't think!!!


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## MJ1

Morning Ladies,

We are number 65!!!! with an approx 6 month wait..... can't believe how excited I am. Also planning our Wedding next year too at last.. happy days

*Roxy* good luck!

Love to all 
MJ1 xxxx


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## fififi

MJ - woohoo ... you're on the way!!!
How exciting that you've a wedding to plan too - that will be good for taking your mind off things as well I guess.


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## Sushi Lover

*Ella*.... Yes, it wasn't a particularly cheerful day I have to say  I keep hoping my Nan's will 'help' me in some way! You are right about letting go. It is tough to face up to the fact our eggs are struggling to do the job. I said to my DP I feel less of a woman, useless, old. I'm still struggling when I think about DP's sperm and someone else's egg getting jiggy in a petri-dish. Almost jealously I suppose. Is that a rational feeling? I read all the literature about IVF DE process and when it got to the EC and your partner being there to provide a sample I felt really funny about it. Basically I'm not needed at all up to that process and that made me feel sad  I'm so glad to hear you are 'there' and ready to go ahead with DE. I hope I'll not be too far behind you. Are you having baby aspirin everyday? How about steroids and clexane to stop miscarriage after ET? Have you tried that? Maybe they will up your progesterone intake. They can see cysts on an ultrasound ..can you ask for one to rule that out? You could even go to the GP and say you are experiencing abdominal pains and get it on the NHS.

*Cornwall*.... sorry to hear you didn't see your children on Mother's Day. That is so sad about your Mum as well. My heart goes out to you. The problem with Mother's Day is that it's not a happy event for everyone. My DP was melancholic all day thinking about his Mum. It's an emotional time if you missing someone. I think you need to rest after a hysteroscopy hun. Having it a few days before ET sounds too close together. We only have to look at Fifi's situation to see the recovery time isn't quick.  Have the clinic recommended this because they've noticed a problem area in your uterus then? My consultant said it's really only necessary if a ultrasound shows up that there is old scar tissues, polyps, fibroids or endometriosis problems and because the scans are so brilliant these days they can see this beforehand and then refer you for a hysto. If you don't have any of those problems you probably do not need it done?

*Fifi*....sorry you are still in so much pain. You poor thing. Maybe you went back to work too early and needed more rest? My consultation went well thanks. Bottom line is ... doctor's words... "if you have only enough money for 1 more cycle go straight for DE as the success rate is a lot higher.. however, if you have enough for 2 or 3 then try again with your OE one more time and then DE" Maybe that helps your situation as well? It depends on finances and you want to give yourself the best shot ever if it's the last go. I'm having a break now and will try again in May with OE for one last time and then go on donor list. We hope the EEVA machine will not break down this time and will give a greater insight into which embryos to transfer. Interestingly, some embryos can form an odd number of cells and then correct themselves.. e.g. either 3 or 5 and then correct to 4 as it should be on day 2 for example. This abnormal cell division can mean a problem with the embryo, but the embryologist would only have a 'snapshot' view every morning and not be aware of the odd number of cells hours before this check. This can happen the next day as well... 7 or 9 cells, then correct to 8. These embryos wouldn't be good to transfer, but under the microscope they may look 'perfect'. So, as EEVA films the embryos 24/7 this odd number cell division can be eradicated and other embryos transferred. Something to mull over!

*MJ*..... Wow, number 65 sounds great hun! 6 months will fly by. Wedding plans sound lovely too. What a wonderful distraction to have. Enjoy!

Hello *Karen, Moomin, Lesley, SmallPeanut, Cooljules, Roxy (ET today!!), Debs, Hopeful.*.. I hope I haven't missed anyone..

xxx


----------



## Coolish

Hey Kirsty - just seen your post about not being needed much in DE IVF. Having been through 4 now, it couldn't be further from the reality  You are the one doing all the work to get your lining and your body ready - so you are taking the meds the same as OE and you still have a scan at around day 9 to check your lining. All the things you'd do to get ready for OE IVF are there except you don't have to go through EC. Your OH does the same whether it's OE or DE...   Then once you've had ET, it's just the same.


----------



## Sushi Lover

Thanks* Cooljules*,... I know you are right, just feeling sorry for myself. Did you feel a bit funny on egg collection day knowing another woman's eggs would be put together with your hubby's sperm? That you weren't needed on that particular day?

Maybe the anticipation is worse than the reality and once it's actually happening it feels no difference to OE IVF.

x


----------



## Hobie15

Hi all,
Not been on this thread before.... more stuff I can relate too. I have done lots of OE IVF and didn't want to contemplate DEIVF, but our last fresh cycle (April 2012) kinda of made me realise that despite not feeling my age, you can't fool mother nature  It is a big step, but I felt emensly relieved once we had taken the decision and I could move on! And as Kirsty points out the success rates are much better.

I went on the list for DEIVF last May before we had used up our frozen embies, did 2 more cycles of FET boith BFN' had time off over christmas and new year and now I am D/Ring for my first cycle - I think my donor will get her af soon, had endo scratch yesterday, I need to start my progynova 22nd March and have a lining scan 4th April.... guess ET will be about 1 week later(ish)

*Fififi* - not sure if your clinic or if finances allow, but can you put you name on the list for a DE and do one more OEIVF?? When you get a BFP you can take your name off the list! I guess you could only do that though if you were considering staying with the same clinic thou.

There are lots of ladies over on the donor boards that will help with questions etc (some of them are here too )

Good luck everyone on their journeys

H x


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## Ronnie3007

*Newbies*Hello 

*Cornwall* I totally understand the feeling as mine live in England and I am in Germany 

*Kirsty*  

*fifi* Hope you are feeling better today 

*MJ1* Excellent news on being No. 65, the time will soon pass and how exciting to be planning your wedding  

*AFM* Well had dreaded Mothers Day this year, first one not in UK and away from my children. Lost some tears . Spoke to them all throughout the day, DD has made me a cushion with Mum on it and also a card. Funny how ex DH has not offered to post them over, I have had to ask. My 18 year old DS has done a funkypigeon but it only left UK on Monday so am still waiting for that. DH bought me some choccies, wine and smellies. I was also banned from the kitchen for the entire day which was lovely . Also, spent the day on and off thinking of all you girls on here who have not got any children yet and that kept giving me a kick up the rear.

Today we are dogsitting my friends Boxer girl Jess, so Pongo is loving having his girlfriend here lol. Desperately now trying to find work. Roll on 9th April. The last few days have been suffering from really bad pains in my pelvic area and it is now right across my back level with my hip bones. My AF is due by this weekend so it is most probably everything complaining again


----------



## Coolish

Hi Kirsty - nope I didn't feel funny at all. I think I've said this before, but I view it more like a blood transfusion. If your hubby needed blood would you feel funny that another woman's blood was going through his veins? Hope that doesn't sound too blunt. I'm not some cold-hearted b*tch either as I ignored the idea of DE for a couple of years. The more you think about it though the more it makes sense. The donor eggs wouldn't survive without your hubby's sperm and your body. You may not need to physcally be there on EC day but you're certainly needed on ET day, which in my view is a much better day


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## Sushi Lover

*Hobie*... welcome. Best of luck with your DE cycle!! Not long to go now.

*Ronnie*...sorry you were upset on Mother's Day. Glad you spoke to your children though to make you feel better.

*Cooljules*.... Oh right, maybe it's just me that has these feelings then? I'm not ashamed to admit I feel a bit jealous thinking about a younger woman's eggs doing the job I can't. Understand what you are saying about a blood transfusion.. and no, I wouldn't feel funny about that. I just always thought we'd make a baby together, without assistance or donation and that hasn't happened so it makes me feel a bit rubbish. ET is a better day I agree  I need more time to think about it I suppose. Sorry, I didn't mean to upset you by asking questions regarding you feeling funny about it. I think you are a lot further along the line in the thought process than I am. Hoping I catch up soon. 

xx


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## Coolish

Hey Kirsty - you didn't upset me in the slightest - it's just never occurred to me to be upset about it. I was upset when I found that I had no chance with my own eggs, but happy that at the age of 48 and after 8 years of properly TTC that I have a chance with DE. It just sounds like you need a bit more time to think things through and decide what's best for you and your hubby. xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Jules*... oh that's good. You worry that things may come out wrongly on here sometimes! Yes, I can see that having a chance with DE is a whole lot better than no chance at all. Just need to get my head around it! I'm sure I will get there. They do DE counselling at my clinic which I will definitely go for before making a decision.

Thanks 

xx


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## hopeful68

H All - i completely forgot about mothers day on sunday!!! my mum died 9 yrs ago, my DH's about 30 yrs ao, my gran died 2 yrs ago so i am the only female left and i was busy studying for an exan and doing boring food shopping etc - completely forgot - now feel bad for not sparing a thought for my mum and gran! still flitting between the 'thats it i know i am not going to be a mum, get on with my life' thougths and the 'maybe adoption wont be that bad' 'can i scrape togethr a cycle of DE/donor embryo?' then back to thought 1!!  definately thankful i am doing my course and had exams this week and a hand in for an essay in the next couple of weeks.

Lesley i will PM you shortly so keep an eye out....

I hope you all are doing OK this week. Mother's day is done for another year and the stupid 'nearly a mother' ads have stopped on the local radio and TV. I liked the comment someone put 'should be a mother' i like that! we all should be mums, we obviously have a lot to give. Just trying to work out where to redirect my energy instead.....

take care ladies.....
M


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## Moominmum

Hi Lovely Ladies,

Just a quick one from me. I am still following the thread but I am not writing as I don't feel that I have anything to say at the mo  but I find it very interesting to read all your thoughts and it helps me where I am in "limbo land".

I am so sorry to hear about everyone's struggle on Sunday. I am lucky with DS but I find the day hard anyway as it is now 10 years ago since my mum passed away way too early. I miss her every day and still cry on a regular basis missing her.  

Anyway, I am praying for some good luck in this thread very very soon.    

   to all and also some    

Moominmum


----------



## cornwall

Hi everyone,

Thank you for the messages and advice regarding the hysteroscopy. 

Kirsty: the clinic did a scan last time (January) and said it all looked fine - good, thick lining and no sign of anything untoward. Also, I had a scan in the UK in September last year, to check my lining, and was also told that everything looked smooth and even with no evident issues. So, perhaps a hysteroscopy isn't necessary? I've emailed the clinic to ask if I can go ahead with this cycle now and consider further investigations if I get another BFN. I intend to have a break over the summer (as flights and accommodation are so expensive) so that will allow time to get 'seen' here.

Just received the most fantastic Mother's Day card from my son. Ok, a couple of days late, but that's boys for you. I think he must be missing me cos he wants to come a stay for a few days over Easter. Will be lovely to see him


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hello girls,

*Hopeful*... all those 'almost a mother' on Mother's Day adverts on the radio were seriously doing my head in! Glad they are over now. Sorry to hear about your Mum and your Gran. Mother's Day isn't a happy day for everyone. I'm sure you think about them constantly so don't need special day to do that. Don't feel bad. Good luck with your studying/exams/course/essay! You sound a busy lady and the distraction is good. Maybe once all those are out of the way you can make a decision about the best way forward for you... whether that be adoption, moving on or DE IVF. Don't rush yourself.

*Moomin*... sorry to hear about your Mum as well. She must have been young to pass away 10 years ago. So sad to hear. I can imagine you shed tears everyday and miss her immensely. Glad you have your DS and are a mother yourself to take some of the pain away.

*Cornwall*... well, going by what my consultant said, a hysteroscopy is only necessary when something untoward shows up on a scan. But that is his opinion. I know many other doctors do them as a matter of course as feel it can assist going forward to have a 'clear out/clean slate'. It's quite invasive and I'm sure Fifi will agree that the recovery time isn't quick. So if I were you I wouldn't rush into it if you have no other problems. I thought about having it done, but then decided against it as I didn't want to put myself through it for no apparent advantage to be gained. My scans are always totally clear as well. that's lovely about your son 

*Ella*.... oh good, I'm glad it's not only me. Yes, Jules' experience can really help our thought processes. I love that quote you found! I reckon the minute you get that BFP all thoughts of the donor disappear! What a shame you don't have access to the NHS. Private doctors are so expensive even for routine things.

Hello to all the other lovely ladies reading!

xxx


----------



## Hobie15

Hi all, sorry been awol for a day or so....getting ready for skiing!

*Ella* I did try a scratch on my last FET, pre and post ET acupuncture...... And anything anyone recommended, but despite all that still a bfn, so it cemented in my mind time to move on to DE. We will try it this once, use up any frozen ones (if we get any) then give up..... And move on.

Hi to everyone else and hope you are all ok.



H x x


----------



## karen71

I'm finding it hard to keep up on here , it's because I'm not on here every day like I was on the other one. So only really know people from there. I will try to come her abit more often .
*kirsty* wouldn't it be so much better if we were all rich, that would be one less stress . We've just payed another bill today, to keep our frozen embies until we can start again. We were thinking of may, so just seeing how it goes. Hope your doing ok. How are things going now?
*fififi* I'm feeling abit better now, think getting on with life is helping at the moment, but it will prob hit me when we start again.
*afm* I'm feeling ok which is still strange for me, but maybe it's a turnaround for my emotions. Once I go to the counsellor I might feel better, because I'm sure it will all come out then. We might start again in May depending on money etc. I have started trying to do more positive things, like more excercise,cutting out caffiene, doing yoga. So if I can keep this up it will be alot better. 
Hope everyones ok on here and hopefully get to know you more


----------



## Ronnie3007

I think trying with DE is a great idea, I think as things are sinking in and acceptance of the fact that my body is in shutdown it def would be an option.  DH does not want to try IVF again so its the reversal option for us but I would like to wish all of you luck if you go ahead.  AF is due today so feeling pretty crap I might just hibernate today.


----------



## Ronnie3007

*Ella* Yep it is defo a hard one to accept .. getting older  hmmmm, not fair. Good luck with your tx   

*AFM* Well still in pain it is now hurting on my left side and front. If i press my hip bone etc it is sore, pain killers not doing anything and I am not sleeping great. So will be off to drs tomorrow is no better. AF also has not arrived yet, was due Friday , am starting to wonder whether the pain is connected to the no show of my AF.

I have a question. Has anyone had the 5 day blasts put back in and is there a higher success rate for this? I still have IVF at the back of my mind even tho DH does not want that again


----------



## Ronnie3007

*Ella* I started having bad cramps a week ago roughly day 20 then it has moved to all round my pelvic bones, really bad now on the left side and today had some pain down my leg when i was walking my dog. I guess it does take time for our bodies to recover but OMG does it have to be this painful . Yes it was our first try at IVF and at the moment my only try, due to the emotional rollercoaster and finances. I might be mistaken but I think a day 5 would have more chance than a day 3, my 2 were grade A's and still didnt stick so am wondering whether it was down to the outside being harder than a younger persons egg. My clinic does not seem to offer a 5 day .

My friend used DE and has a gorgeous DD now. She recommends it and the only thing on her mind now is when does she tell her DD about the treatment. Hard one, does she need to? I would def now try DE if i had the chance. I was against it at the start but now have opened my mind more to it. Good Luck


----------



## hopeful68

H Ronnie, def get checked out re the pain - not right. there could be embryonic tissue developing dispite the BFN and it could be causing the pain.....(worse case scenario - not intended to scare the pants off you!!)
re day 2 or 5, my clinic said they would only go to day 5 if they couldnt work out which the best ebies were. they are better off inside in the natural environment rather than in a lab. i had 3 put back all reasonalble quality, my remaining 3 didnt get to day 5, i imagine the 3 i had put back might not have made it either and only one of them implanted.... it all depends who you speak to though....


----------



## cornwall

Hi Ronnie,

I've had two cycles of DE IVF. The first one, I had 3 five day blasts transferred - BFN.
Second one, 3 three day embies - BFN.

Now waiting to start my third cycle and hoping it's third time lucky. Clinic has said they will take embies to blast if possible as these tend to be more successful.


----------



## Moominmum

The way I understand it is that the advantage with a 5 day blast is that you know that the embie developed "normally" that far which is a step in the process itself. With a 3 day you don't know. I can take my personal one and only tx as an example - by day 3 most of my embies were doing very well but by day 4 most of them had not progressed "according to plan" something the clinic could not tell would happen by day 3. The aim with the whole process is to pick the embie/s with the highest chance of success and hence it only makes sense to keep embies in the lab if there are many to pick from. If you by day 2-3 have a couple of embies that are continuing to develop, there is no need to wait any further as you already know which ones that are the best. Your own body is the best incubator.

The classifications though seem to be around how the embies develop (in terms of cell division, how compact they are etc) but says nothing about the DNA. Once you get older, the DNA seems to be the biggest issue for a successfull pregnancy, which is not taken into account when picking embie/s for ET unless you specifically ask, and not to forget PAY, for it.

I think I am repeating myself  when I say that the current IVF process, the way teyt pick embies etc, is just not with 40+ i mind...

   to all.


Moominmum


----------



## Ronnie3007

*moominmum* Totally agree with you on your post, they do not seem to focus on us oldies just the youngsters!! It really annoys me that they are still capping the age limit to 41 when it is proved that women of up to 46 + are wanting to conceive. Totally unfair!!

*Hopeful and Cornwall* I guess for us the hard bit is to accept if its meant to be it will work whether they are 3 or 5 day blasts. Why can it not be easier .

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## fififi

My last 2 cycles were day 5 blasts - as Moom said it is primarily to narrow the choices down. My clinic aims for day 5 transfers but only if you've 3 or more embies at day 3

Hope you pain eases soon Ronnie

Hugs to all x


----------



## hopeful68

Ella,where are you going out of interest, and if not too prying , how much? Still Toying in my head.... Never quite over is it!!


----------



## Coolish

*Ella* - that's why we have been abroad for DE. We like the fact that it's anonymous. Plus there are no waiting lists


----------



## Ronnie3007

Well tried to get Dr's appt this morning only to find out they are closed til next week.  Then out of the blue I get a call from my Gynae saying that the smear I had done nearly 2 weeks ago had shown up inflammation (?)  Which possibly will explain why I am feeling so ****e.  Still  have all the pelvic pain and still no AF. Feeling dizzy and sick every day aswell, especially when I first get up.  I have an appt with my Gynae now on Wednesday. How weird tho that one option goes and another rescues you from thinking OMG I have to wait another week to find out what is wrong with me.  Thank you to who ever it was up above for coming to my aide


----------



## MJ1

Hi Ladies,

How are you all?  Sorry I am not posting much but not really got much to say at the moment, but I am reading all your posts. 
I do have a question and just wondered if you lovely ladies that have been through DE could advise me?

As you know I am on the wait list for DE. Approx date for match is August. 

DP and I desperately want to plan our Wedding for next year (call me mad) ,  but we have waited nearly 5 long years to get married, but due to txing and money it has not all been possible. We have bitten the bullet and no matter what the outcome of this DE cycle we are going ahead for next summer.  

This is where I need your help. I have today spoken to the clinic hoping that they could advise me on how long it will take for my match to sync with me and start the cycle once we are matched. The lady at Lister said that it is an impossible question to answer and we will know much more once I am matched. Yes I can work that one out too… 

So any advice please..... I don’t mind which month we get married June, July August or Sept……. but we have to give the venue a date to fix it up.  I have explained to the lady at the venue that we are going through IVF and there could be a change to the date, which she is fine with as long as the alternative is available.
Sorry for the me post....
Help…………… . 
MJ1 xxxxxx


----------



## Macsbump1

Hi girls,

Home now so can use my pc  .

Ronnie, sorry to hear your'e feeling rough, take care x

Ella, I think it's great your going abroad for DE, if I need it, I would do the same.  Let us know how you get on x

Good luck on your cycle Cornwall x

Louise, hope your managing your jabs ok x

Hobie, Karen, Kirsty, Fifi, Moominmum, Cooljules and everyone else, hope all's well x

MJ sorry I can't help you, but didn't want to read and run.  Good luck with your dates x

AFM:  Getting the hang of this now, still don't like it though.  I couldn't get one of the needles in last night, so moved it to a different spot and luckily it worked.  DP wasn't home so I had to do it.  Feeling a bit bloated and a slight headache but all still good, and looking forward to my scan on Friday x


----------



## Coolish

*MJ1* - I've never been on a wating list for a donor, but when we cycled in Spain I'd just say when my AF came and they'd start me on the contraceptive pill for around a month, which was usually long enough to get on sync with the donor, then after the next AF it would be straight onto meds.

*Ella *- we've cycled in Spain, in Alicante, and the clinics and the level of care is fantastic. It's a different world to the UK  Alicante is easy to get to and have a lovely old town and beach. There's a cool train too that can take you up the coast to explore.


----------



## Mish3434

Afm = as for me..........


----------



## hopeful68

Ronnie - if you havent yet, please go see a Dr. if you havent have AF since the BFN you may be retaining and getting an infection which can affect your future chances...... if you cant get to the Dr go to AE (i didnt tell you to do that of course - being from the ambulances!! ) seriously though if you are feeling unwell you may actually be quite ill - go prove me wrong though!


----------



## Ronnie3007

*Hopeful* I did have an AF after the BFN, it was not as heavy as I had expected it to be but dripped on for nearly 9 days . On day 20 noticed the signs of ovulation (clearly jelly) Sorry , but I normally get that mid cycle 10 - 14 days!! Then 2 days later the cramping started really bad and then moved to all round my pelvic area. I did post yesterday that I am now off to gynae on Wednesday after she rang Monday to say that my smear done nearly 2 weeks ago has shown an infection so that might be why I am in pain. I have checked online and it seems it is very common to be left with an infection after IVF. Sooooo not only did it not work for us but I have been left with an infection . At least now I will get sorted and hopefully at some point my AF will return .

*MJ1* I agree with Ella that it would be sensible to go to the latest date you will consider. How exciting, I loved planning mine  

*Macs* Good luck with your stimming, those injections get easier each time. Lots of sitting with a hot water bottle aswell 

Hi to everyone else today hope you are all well.


----------



## Macsbump1

Hi Girls,

Ronnie, can't believe you have to wait until Wednesday if you have an infection that's terrible xx

Hi Ella, yes I am, but i've had a BFN, but here I am still trying lol!  Alicante sounds lovely right now 

MJ, a wedding will certainly keep you busy x


----------



## hopeful68

thanks for the update Ronnie - good luck, hope it all clears up soon. i had an infection YEARS ago - possible caused my issues now other than my age!! god i felt rubbish, nearly passed out at work- had to lie on the floor, then thought i had better see a DR!! took antibiotics and a few days in bed to get back to normal!!

thanks for the info Ella - i amy google it all but am dubious about getting excited again with out the money sorted out - it is a pipe dream really!! i wonder if they could do some 2 for 1 deals if we teamed up to split the donors' costs!!! - got my pikey head on at the moment -obviously they wouldnt go for that they want our MONEY!!!


----------



## fififi

Ronnie - hope you are feeling little better today. Do hope you get some help at your appointment tomorrow

MJ - from my conversations with DE co-ordinator I'd say you're best off choosing a late summer date. However I personally would book the date I'd most like and hope that actually it'll have to be changed should I get pg. By doing that you won't feel any extra sadness should the IVF not work and if you do get lucky you're going to be so chuffed about becoming parents delaying the wedding to late summer/autumn won't bother you.

Not got time to do any more personals but big hello & hugs to everyone

AFM - feeling really low today. Saw my consultant for post op review but time was focused more on what treatment to have next. He did say that he felt I had a good chance with OE still but obviously now I've turned 43 time really isn't on my side. Came away feeling old and pretty useless - yet still unsure whether I shouldn't make my last attempt a final fling of the OE dice. Kinda wish he'd just said they wouldn't recommend OE rather than saying its got lower odds. Strangely the thing that's bothering me most is fact, unknown to me I'd had embryo glue (secret trial) and even that didn't help my last cycle in any way.
Currently on totally different planet to DH too which has meant constant arguing and total lack of understanding from him as to why I'm feeling sad about our chances for the future and loss of twins at Easter last year. He can't see point in still being sad and has no comprehension at all as to why I'm struggling to go visit my sister's new baby next week.
So need something to start making me smile again as totally sick of feeling negative & sad all the time. I try to push myself onwards but pain just doesn't seem to move away.


----------



## LellyLupin

Hi Girls

Just a quickie from me will write more when I have more time.  Have been having a time out from FF to get my head together.  Seems to have worked so this is the first time I have been back on.  Just had a quick read of the posts I have missed.  I can see that a lot is going on.  No time for many personals at the mo but Hopeful big hugs to you thanks for the PM I really appreciate it xx and Feefs so sorry you are feeling so sad at the mo, I think you are where I have just been, sending you a massive hug   .  I think you need a bit of time out from thinking, easier said than done I know.  I feel for you having to see your sisters new baby, its really tough to go through but you can do it sweetie, I got though seeing my friends baby and survived, you will too you are stronger than you realise.    

Lesley xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hi girls, just a quick one...

CRM have just announced their success rates for 2012 and for the second year running they have achieved the position as the top clinic in the UK to have the highest clinical pregnancy rate of 55% for Egg Recipients!!! http://bit.ly/14hoLM5. Incredible and worth a look at the website. I think they have some kind of open day coming up if anyone fancies it?

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=303883.0 ... here is the FF link... have a read.

Lovely weekend, KLS xx

/links


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## LellyLupin

Hi Girls

Hope you are feeling a bit better Feefs, did you manage to see the baby or are you still deciding? If your consultant still thinks you have a good chance with OE why are you not so sure?  You have fallen with twins so you can get pregnant with your OE.    Or are you wanting to up your odds with DE which brings its own questions?  

Thanks Ella, I see you have a horse on your profile and as the Emerald Isle is rife with horses I was wondering if you have one?  Having a bit of a problem with mine at the moment and wondered if you might have any tips.  He has started broncoing when he doesn't get his own way,  and I am not talking a slight buck I am talking a full on rodeo ride.  

Hopeful thanks for the PM will call you next week for a chat.  xx

AFM Up and down a bit this week, keep thinking I am over it all and then feeling very sad five minutes later.  One minute I am very positive about the future and the next wondering if I really should give up, and feeling that all the holidays, gadgets, things I could buy myself feel worthless without my own family.  DP doesn't even mention it now he thinks its all 'gone away'.  I know for a fact if money was not an issue I woud be trying again, my brother offered the money but it feels wrong to take it, I feel like I am wasting his hard earned cash and I know he hates his job.  Why does everything come down to money


----------



## LellyLupin

How old is your friend who had OE success Ella?

Toby has had this horrible habit since we got him at 4 (we were told he was eight), he is 12 now.  He only really does it in the winter and he has seen off a good few riders with it.   He has been out on loan with a view to buy a couple of times, but they always bring him back.  Unfortunately for me he has already hurt my back and I suffer from nerve damage.  We've had him checked out and its not pain, he is a very wilful boy and a bit of a rig, he just wants his own way.  The girl who is riding him now got a taste of it the other day but shes hanging on in there, shes a very good rider, she said he even squealed in temper the little sod.  He has only done it a couple of times in the arena,  and managed to get his dressage rider off once much to her amazement, we are at a place without a school so the lunging bit is out now.  Curious to know what the old skool Irish way is and does it work? if its the whip it just makes him worse.  We have had a couple of riding instructors on him and even they struggled with him.  Devil Dick is his nickname around the farms he is notorious,  and yet he is capable of so much, he is great at dressage and showjumping if he wakes up in the right mood that is    What do you have?  Toby is a Welsh Section C.  

What symptoms are you having?  You are a bit young for menopause at 44.  I already owe my brother 5k which I am paying back slowly, I really want to borrow another 5k but DP is not happy.  Was it an easy decision for you to go DE?  For some people it is and I am toying with it at the moment.  I just want to make a decision and stick with it instead of this round and round thinking, its driving me slowly mad.  11


----------



## LellyLupin

Hi Ella would you believe it he was as good as gold today, especially as its blowing a gale and freezing cold.  Hes 14.3 but rides like a big horse, he is very strong and he knows it.  We got him from the sales so no history but they definitely lied to get rid of him, the lady who sold him had only had him 6 weeks.  He was very possessive of Sally (who has just been put down)  and would not let any other horse male or female near her.  He is always the boss of the field no matter where we are and no matter how big the others are.  I have put you a photo on of him attacking his new stable mate.   I love him to bits even though he is the most frustrating horse I have ever met    I am not a fan of the whip or the spur either, it doesn't work with Tobes,  the only thing he doesn't like is to be shouted at, he then sulks for ages.  I used to loan an Irish mare Galtee, she now belongs to Elle Mcpherson the supermodel.  She came to our area with Arkie Busson when they were a couple and stayed at Mulgrove Castle , she saw Galtee fell in love with her and bought her,  apparently shes not a very good rider but no-one dare tell her    My only horsey claim to fame, apparently she posed for a magazine cover with Galtee but I never saw it.  Must be nice to just have the money to buy whatever you want and get someone else to look after it for you. 

I got a shock too when my consultant said give up or DE,  especially as he was so excited at the beginning due to my AMH & FSH levels and lining results.  He said if he had 10 women in his office and only a couple would get pregnant I would be one of them.  Two ivf sessions later hes pulled the rug from under me!  I wish my DP was as supportive as yours but he doesn't want any more kids so I feel totally isolated at times. I have been given a 40% success rate with DE if I can get DP to agree to it.  Not sure I believe it they just guess everything.  I know this sounds terrible but I would want to at least see a picture of the donor before taking her eggs, impossible I know.  I would want someone who looks half way like me, I am a bit spanishy looking and want a dark haired dark eyed child so I would bond better with it.  I am a bit scared I wouldn't bond with a DE baby thats a big fear for me.  How far along the process are you now? I will look into the Credit Union thing thanks for the tip.  I read your page 77 post, you have  been on a health kick huh, do you feel better for it?  

Lesley xx


----------



## fififi

Hi there - not in mood for proper post I'm afraid but will pop by later and catch up then.

Need urgent help/advice as just returned from GP who told me the bloods I had taken last week show I'm now menopausal. FSH risen to 25, was previously 9 (August). As you can imagine I'm gutted and seriously concerned - though GP told me not to panic too much until retested next month as he was equally surprised by these levels.

Two things - firstly I wonder if DHEA having this effect on me? Anyone any experience of this?
Secondly any suggestions on how to decrease these levels? (I already have regular acupuncture)

Thanks


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hello Fifi,

I'm sorry to hear your news.  Not what you need at all.  Poor thing.  If the GP has told you not to panic then I'd try and stay calm and listen to him/her.  I really can't imagine you've gone from a level of 9 to 25 in 7 months?!  Sounds like there is something not quite right there.

There are some schools of thought that say DHEA can lower FSH...  you need to be taking it for at least 3 months to see a result though.  Others say it doesn't affect FSH at all, but improves egg quantity regardless of a highish number.  You may not have been taking it long to see a positive result yet.  I don't think DHEA would make your FSH levels rise?  But it does affect our hormones so yours could now be out of kilter since taking it?

I believe changing your diet is the best way to reduce levels (together with acupuncture and Chinese herbs)  I've read a lot about this.  Wheatgrass in particular.  Apparently there's a great book could "Inconceivable" by Julia Indichova.  She had high FSH and went on to have a healthy baby girl by diet and lifestyle change.  Google it.

Don't forget though Fi, if you go down the DE route it doesn't matter about your FSH levels as your own cycle will be suppressed.  I know you don't want this sort of upsetting news to 'make' you decide and it's a horrible shock to deal with, but it could ultimately be something to help you decide which pathway to take next in your journey. Everything happens for a reason I believe.  I hope it all sorts itself out one way or another.  Keep us in touch.



xxx


----------



## fififi

Thanks kirsty - am trying not to panic but it's hard to be given such news and not worry. I too had initially thought that this news would help me in the OE/DE debate and to a certain extent it probably does add yet more weight to the DE camp however I'm more affected by the fact this this high FSH reduces my natural chances yet further and potentially means I'll be starting menopause imminently. Not something I thought would happen having turned 43 last month ... thought that was to be worried about at 48/49!

Have been reading up on wheatgrass but unsure if it's advisable due to my immune levels being borderline in some tests. Have gone and bought large bag of ground flaxseed as that's what Zita west nutricionalist recommended following my MC last year to get my hormone levels back to normal.

Aggghhhhh ... just didn't need even more TTC stress ... especially when feeling so vunerable & low already.


----------



## Sushi Lover

I really do think 43 is too young to be starting the menopause Fi.  As you said, late 40's yes, but not early 40's.  Let's hope it's some blip on the blood test and can be disregarded next month when the levels are back to normal.  I would be the same about being affected more by the diminishing possibility of natural conception rather than adding more weight to the DE argument.  The DE argument sounds sensible and rational on paper, but it's virtually impossible not to worry or panic when such news is presented to you.  I totally understand.

Flaxseeds sound good. Sprinkle on your porridge, cereal or leave seeds in their whole form to add some crunch to salads.  I sound like Delia!

You really are in a low and vulnerable state already (as you've said) to be dealing with such news, that's why the panic is setting in.  You aren't strong enough to handle it as you usually would. I hope you get some positive news soon to give you a boost, help control the panic and then make some informed choices whatever the outcome.  I know it's scary thinking about your natural chances diminishing, but thank goodness you still have the option of DE to fall back on if need be.

Chin up lovie...  hot bath, trashy tv, cuddle on sofa with DD and/or DP and an early night.  You'll feel stronger to face the world and these testing times again soon.

xxx


----------



## fififi

Thanks Kirsty & Ella ... will see if can get copy of Inconceivable and try and refine diet a bit more, although already avoid so much of what I fancy. 

Kirsty/Delia - have put flaxseed in everything tonight - smoothie, salad, pasta & mixed into yogurt! Did create the effect that whole meal tasted the same but hopefully that's today's dose covered. I really don't like the ground stuff much but that's the best for hormone imbalance - weirdly DD loves it and had nearly as much as me!

Ella - hope you figure out cause of your weird symptoms too & it's easily resolved.
I just started using CBFM this month and feel that it's yet another case of wasted money and isn't helping my emotional state at all. Was all excited on day 9 when it showed high fertility but that's where it's stayed ever since and now on day 18 so obviously no ovulation and deranged hormone activity! Don't know whether to keep going with that or not now either.

Hope everyone else is doing better than me and life little more balanced your end. Hugs to all & thanks for being there to help me through current madness x


----------



## fififi

Ella - I didn't think you were questioning my diet so don't worry about that hun, just winging out loud about how pants it is constantly taking care when it seems to have no effect at all. Often wonder if I eat junk food, smoke & drink lots whether I'd have the same success lots of women I see out and about have with their 20000 kids they need to scream at constantly  

Agree with you on the stress front - last few months have been pretty stressful. At my last review my clinic asked if I'd take part in their "stress trial" on our next cycle - I'm assuming its to help reduce stress rather than then adding to it! Obviously I seemed stressed out in order for them to suggest it. Will look at ways to chill more.
Have put an ebay bid on book you & Kirsty mentioned so hopefully it'll be mine soon!

As for DHEA I'm mixed about it. As currently blaming it for my problems I'm probably not best person to speak to. However until CBFM fiasco and high FSH crisis occurred I was quite happy with the DHEA. Plus my clinic is currently running a trial on its effectiveness and that encouraged me to go ahead as there's obviously something good about it.


----------



## Cornishtwinkle

Hello ladies - I wondered if I might join you and also ask a question. My signature tells my story. I have 4 frozen embryos at Bath clinic but am thinking possibly of doing another fresh cycle with some kind of chromosomal screening as I seem to produce plenty of eggs but quality is probably the issue. If we did screening I think we might need to change clinics. I can't seem to find very much info on success rates. I think some of you ladies might have opted for it and wondering whether you have any insights you could share? Thank you. Once I'm finished my mmc I also have the duofertility monitor to try out.. So covering all bases!


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## jane66

Hello ladies, 
Do you mind if I join on to this thread, I am new to this forum having just had a DE IVF at Eugin in Spain. It wasnt successfull. We are just recovering from the emotional mess we were in over the last two weeks and are wondering what to do next. 
We have one frozen embryo. Have any of you heard of successes with frozen embryo's? It was the least healthy of the three we had, if it survives the defrosting will it be super strong and hook on, or another disappointing emotional mine field ?? Our other option of to go for another round of DE IVF this summer...
Help ! have any of you any experiences please, I am 46, my partner 36 (I have two teenage daughters from a previous marriage) we have been ttc for 3 years - no alcohol and eating carefully...


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## ♥JJ1♥

Jane 66 ask you clinic the success rates with fresh vs FET for you- my friend opted to have another fresh cycle in at Eugin in Spain, she 46  and got pregnant and is 26 weeks now as the odds were lower with FET.  I have never had and FET only fresh but I have never had snowbabies left


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## jane66

Thanks JJ1, I've a telephone appointment booked on tuesday. Hopefully they'll be able to give us a clearer fuzzy picture. It was difficult enough making the decision to go with donor eggs, I hoped it would be the last hard decision !! 
Its encouraging to hear of another 46 year old lady who has been successful.


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## hopeful68

Just going to wish everyone a happy Easter and i know for any Christians it is a religous festival but looking at the pagan side of thing - eggs and bunnies are for fertility so i wish your and your eggs and bunnies success this year!!


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## fififi

Here's to eggs and bunnies making it a happy 2013 for us all       

Sorry not posted for while but struggling bit at minute and every time I write end up feeling so sad. Hoping that will regain some positivity once next week out of way as just unable to think of anything except what happened this time last year. And as always just when I'm feeling lowest fertility wise babies and pg friends/family seem to pop up all over place so despite my efforts to avoid I end up being confronted with what I can't have on an even bigger scale than normal!


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## Cornishtwinkle

Lastgo - thank you for posting and I must admit that I have had thoughts about not wanting to bring a little baby into this world who would be a burden on my DD once my DH and I have gone. It's so hard just not knowing the chances of this happening. Good luck for your pending round.

Fififi - February/ march has been a sad time for me too both from the loss of my DS at 36 weeks and also historically from the loss of my brother in February 1991. Sometimes I wish I could just sleep through February! I've also had several 40+ friends announcing natural pregnancies - however pleased for them you are, it still causes some envy about why it isn't me. Hard to deal with and can only hope our times will come...

Hopeful - enjoy your eggs and playing with the Easter bunny! 

Jane66 - I heard fet had generally better results for us older ladies than the fresh cycles. 

Still can't find many stories of cgh array genetic testing ... So still in the dark about the benefits.

Have a good break everyone. I'm still waiting for my natural miscarriage. Please come soon.


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## fififi

Cornishtwinkle - sorry to see you're in such sad place at moment with MMC, on top of already difficult Feb/March   
When cycling back in Sept/Oct there were two ladies on over 40s board who had CGH testing so perhaps if you post in general over 40s page someone there might respond. Also look at Care website bulletin board as lots of people have CGH there so you may find someone in similar boat http://www.carefertility.com/ivf/viewforum.php?f=14 They also have an over 40s section

Hope your MC is over soon and doesn't bring you too much physical pain to add to the emotional pain  

/links


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## MJ1

Happy Easter Ladies and 'Hi' to the newbies  , hope that you are all well,  not much to report,  all quiet this end apart from   arriving on Friday.... no surprise there then. 
  
Love MJ1 xx


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## LellyLupin

Hello Girls happy Easter  

Hello to the new girls   we all try to  support each other so you are in good hands.

Cornish so sorry to hear these past months have been so hard for you   .  I too would be interested in chromosomal testing so if you manage to dig anything up please post.  I seem to think you have to get to blastocyst stage to enable them to do the test but I am not 100% sure, I only got to morula.

Hi Ella Toby has been a bit naughty with his bronco act again this week.  My friend went out on him and said she had a fantastic but hair raising time    We have a new stable mate again, another 17.2 hunter called Highlight.  I am going to have a go on him next week, he seems huge compared to Tobes.  Right there with you on the piece of plastic, apparently horses have a strip in at the back of their eye which causes things to come into sharp focus, which is why they can pass something 9 times out of 10 and not react and then suddenly the 10th time they freak out.  They are so interesting don't you think, I just love the peace they bring, just being snuffled by a horse has a calming effect.  

Feefs so sorry you are feeling so down still  , me too I am afraid.  DP and I went away Fri/Sat and again I felt down as there were babies everywhere, ( I think I am better off in familiar surroundings where I can hide)  then on the way home he suddenly announced that we were having his kids for the rest of the weekend.  I was so mad because he told me only the Sunday and that we would have a relaxing day Monday.  In the end we had a huge row and I told him I wanted to split up (we've been together 11 years)  I meant it too.  I have had so much crap from his ex, the huge lie about his vasectomy and his total lack of support during my ivf.  He absolutely broke his heart and cried his eyes out,  we ended up talking about everything for the first time ever (truthfully on his part) too.  I think he has finally  realised how his lie will affect the rest of my life and how much I struggle on a daily basis to control my emotions.  I just figured that I could start again,  and he would feel better not having me throwing it in his face everytime we fell out.  We were supposed to be going to his mothers to a party,  but we just couldn't face it so he rang her and told her about the ivf etc,  and now shes gone in a huff because we didn't involve her in it.   She always makes every situation about her so if she wants to sulk she can, I have too much going on in my life to pander to her.  I think me wanting to split up made DP realise that in all this I have been totally alone and isolated from him, and he is quite ashamed of how he has been.  Anyway that was my lovely stressful weekend  

Jane I did hear that you had a better chance with a frozen embryo than a fresh one and one of my friends was successful with a FET xx

Hi Hopeful hope you got lots of low fat easter eggs  xx

Hi to JJ1 

A big easter hug for all of us


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## hopeful68

Hi Lesley, sounds like you cleared the air and hopefully can either move on or start to talk more freely with each other. Ivf is a strain on any relationship no matter how strong you think you are. Hopefully you will come out of this as a stronger couple and be able to support each other better. Take care... M


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## ajw

Hi everyone!
Sorry I haven't been on for ages. Just been having a good long read and catching up with where everyone is. Some sad stories and heavy hearts. I feel for all of you. It's reassuring to hear that so many of us are having the same anxieties over taking the DE leap though. The jealousy of the other woman and fear of not bonding seems to be on everyone's mind. I guess it's natural and takes a long time to get your head around it. It has to be better than giving up though? (That's me trying to convince myself again  )

I'm planning another 2 attempts with my own eggs first, as here in France I can have 2 more free cycles. Have to fit them in before I turn 43 though in December, as that's the cut off age for funding. Was hoping to see a different gyn for a 2nd opinion, but when I called the first on my shortlist, his witch of a receptionist told me that there was no way he would see me at my age! He doesn't see anyone over 40!! I was so shocked, that I burst into tears when I put the phone down. She was so horrible. Made me feel like a freak. I'm too scared to phone any of the others now. Can't face any more knock backs like that...  

Still need my all clear after my cervix surgery before I can start my next cycle. Have a smear booked next week, then I guess I have to wait 10 days for the results before discussing when to start tx again.  

We've started the ball rolling for adoption too, but they told us we'd have virtually no chance unless we're married and at my age the chances of adopting a child under 3 were also virtually zero. Why is this all so hard? What do they have against us oldies. We'd make fab mums! 

Sorry for my moan, will try to be more positive next time. Happy Easter to everyone and hope we all get infected by the seasonal fertility bug


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## LellyLupin

Hi Hopeful, I do feel better for clearing the air and now DP has started rattling on about all 'we've' been through    Don't remember him bawling his eyes out when I got a BFN    Hope you are ok?  Still furious at DPs Mum as shes gone in a strop over us not telling her about our ivf, jeez we are middle aged adults not bloody teenagers,  and its none of her damn business anyway    

Oh ajw what a horrible receptionist, the cow!  AS if things aren't hard enough for us.  It seems everywhere we turn there is a brick wall at time.   Don't let her upset you  

Hi to everyone else xx


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## jane66

Hello ladies,
Ajw, I am in france too and have found a fantastic gyn with a witch of a receptionist ! (maybe its part of their training). It seems to be the general way in france people skills are very low ! I suggest you look for a female gynie who is older than you.
43 is the cut off age for IVF here but in Spain its 50. There are clinics that will look at your blood tests and not just your age, apparently you can also get this paid for by the Securite Sociale if you are under 43. I went to Eugin, they are particularly kind and caring. 

Ella, Thanks for your words, and good luck with your next own egg iVf ,I was personally worn out with my ovaries !

It wasnt easy being persuaded to use donor eggs, a year ago I would have said no way, but I know my problem isnt mechanical, (my bodyworks as it should) so it must be nature telling me my eggs were not perfect. We managed 3 chemical pregnancies but it all ended in lots of tears. The way I look at it is at least with donor eggs I am able to have my partners child. I am still not sure who and when we would have told about the DE but thats nobodys business but ours.

As for me, still in a turmoil as to whether to try our frozen donor egg, apparently we have a 20-25% success rate, whereas with a fresh cycle it is 61%. I am not sure of all the expense and potential heartache if it doesnt work is wise. We can only afford one or the other at the moment. I would like to try again in August, when the sun is out and there is fruit in the garden...
good luck to all of you x


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## LellyLupin

Hi Girls hope you had a fab Easter.

Just contacted Serum for a consultation, bugger it I don't seem to be handling the doing nothing and accepting it thing.    It won't harm just asking Penny what she thinks,  and DP has said he will support me whatever I decide now he has finally realised what it means to me.  I haven't seen my friend with the new baby since he was first born, just can't face it so obviously I am not over 'things'. 

On the downside DPs mother is now not speaking to us for not telling her that we were doing IVF, I am soo very angry with her I could spit.  DP went to see her to explain why and she was really nasty saying we were selfish for leaving her out.  I honestly can't believe after all we've been through that she has turned this situation into being all about her as she always does.  At the moment we have said we need distance between us so we have told her not to contact us in the next few weeks.  If she calls I will hang up!

On a very good note. Spike the hedgehog who I thought had escaped has turned up.   He must have escaped and hibernated in the garage, I only realised when I spilt some food while feeding Sonic,  and the next day it was gone.  Its either Spike or we have rats  

On the Toby front Ella we are having a terrible time with him, at the moment we are only riding him around the streets,  as when we attempt to go in the woods or up on the tops he is trying to bronco us off, twice this week he has had riders off.  Have you heard of a Buck Stop made by Shires?  Its been recommended but  I can't find one anywhere.  I fear for Tobys future if we can't stop this behaviour, he is quie dangerous at the moment  

Hi to Hopeful hope you are ok, hi Kirsty, Jane, ajw, MJ1, Fifi, Debs are you out there?  Moomin where are you too you seem to have disappeared.


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## MJ1

Hi Lesley ,

still here hun just not much to report. Glad that you and DP are getting there. Sorry to hear about DP's mum  not what you need but chin up she will come round. 
Have made app at Lister for bloods etc for 16th so starting to get things moving, then at least we will be in a position to go ahead when we get matched, just sooooooo long waiting 

Hi to *Hopeful, Cool Jules, Kirsty, Fifi, Debs, Moomin, Jane & AJW*
MJ1 xxxxx


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## fififi

Hi everyone ... Keep meaning to post but been bit of emotional wreak last week. Will be back soon though!

Lesley - sorry to see things came to head with DP but good he finally seems to be on your wavelength. Speaking with Serum seems good thing to do and I'm sure it'll help you make decisions that are positive ones for you. Plus I reckon if DP gets holiday to Greece as part of tx you could make it a happy joint experience
Hopefully his mum will get a grip on reality soon too! 
It's going to take more than a few weeks to go by before feeling able to see your friend's baby, especially when she's oblivious to your pain. I managed to see friends & sisters babies over Easter but only those who have slight understanding of how I might be feeling - eg they never ask me if I want to hold their LO and try to ask about my life not just talk about their baby. Time will help and when you are ready you'll be good friend once again ... besides at this age the baby will not really notice who's there & your friend will most likely be too involved in babyland to realise how long it's been   

MJ - getting bloods done will help you feel like you're moving closer I'm sure. Hopefully you will get match soon


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## Moominmum

Quick post - in particular to *Lesley* who asked where I was  - I am still here!

I am reading all posts but have nothing to add to the conversations normally. I am at the stage where I haven't really accepted the situation which means that DE is just too far away for me (emotionally) and after the experience of the one and only OE tx, I don't think I could go through that again.

So here I am, so wanting a sibling to DS, just turned 43 (yday ) and no idea what the next step is.

Hope everyone is enjoying the spring weather - hopefully here to stay now!

Moominmum x


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## MJ1

Hi Ladies,

Latest update... number 56! Bloods and stuff next week, than let's hope we move a little quicker..... 

Ella    sorry to hear you are down. 

MJ1 xx


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## bernie1971

Ladies, can i join this thread? I know some of you from my OE-IVF cycle back in May/June 2012, such as ajw and Lesley. I've been mainly lurking on FF due to the fact that I haven't found a group I would feel comfortable with. I think you guys are it though! Anyway, trying to be philosophical about my BFN today. Although I just can't help thinking things like "here we go again". I have never ever ever had a positive pregnancy test, pee stick or otherwise. Okay. enough feeling sorry for myself!!! Onwards and upwards. Thinking of doing FET as soon as it is possible. Do not want to lose momentum and taking a break only makes me feel worse...


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## ajw

Hi Bernie,
Nice to hear from you again     Sounds like you've been having a tough time. 
Must be hard to have your hopes up with such good results and then it still not work. It's just infuriating! 
Sounds like you need some tlc and to pamper yourself a bit before thinking about next steps / analyzing...

I'm with you on going ahead with fet asap though. I hate breaks! Some people feel they need them, but I just want to get on with the next step. Think it's the age thing! I feel like I'm wasting time if I'm not doing anything. 

I'm on a break now after surgery in Jan for pre-cancerous cells on my cervix. Just had my smear today to see if I get the all clear to start again  

Where did you have your treatment this time? 

Ajw x


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## MJ1

Welcome Bernie and  . You have come to the right place, all these ladies are lovely. I too like you had the best chance on my last cycle and have never had a positive pg test either. Sucks doesn't it! 
Take care
MJ1 xxx


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## LellyLupin

Wow girls we are all more or less at the same stage I think.  Lots of us hurting at the moment and finding it had to accept that OE babies may not happen.. I guess none of us ever thought we would end up here, I know I certainly didn't.  We all deserve a big   because only each of us can understand how the other feels.  I so wish none of us were on this particular threa, but I am so glad we have each other.

Hi Bernie I too have never had a positive test, but I would rather that than have a positive that turns into a chemical pregnancy or a miscarriage, that must be so heartbreaking and like a double blow.  Anyway as you say onwards and upwards Bernie at least you are in a positive frame of mind for starting again, I know having a break just feels like everything is on hold, not sure if it helps or not  

Moomin so nice to hear you are still with us, I just wondered where you were as you founded this thread.  I am just about to turn 46 and am probably just grasping at straws with the Penny thing, however I just feel like I have to do something, and even a flicker of hope helps.  I have tried the trying to accept it route and it just won't register for some reason. XX

Ajw good luck for your results, I am sure you will be fine now. I bet you are chomping at the bit to get going again  xx

MJ  no 56!  Its getting closer and closer  Maybe you will be our success story, one of us has to make it !!

Hi Feefs so sorry to hear you are still struggling, me too chick.   I slap on a smile for the public but underneath it all I am all over the place.  DP has now realised how hard it is and we even have a joke about how many pregnant woman/babies/adverts surround us on a daily basis.  We switched over when Emmerdale was on because it was all about ivf and a babyfood advert came on, DP said he had never realised just how torturous even watching tv can be for someone dealing with infertility.  It does work if you can raise a smile now and again, it is very hard though I know.  Two of my colleagues where rambling on about their kids today so I just spoke about my dog as though she was my baby, soon shut them up  

Hi Ella sorry to hear you are down too, I think this crap weather affects us all too, we all need a bit of sunshine to cheer us up a bit. I know it doesn't take the ache away but getting outside can sometimes make us forget for an hour or two and that helps. 

On the Toby front I think you are right we need to find an expert to help.  I think he will be better once he gets turned out for the Summer but at the moment he is being a little t*at as someone said to me yesterday.  The thing about Toby is he is very intelligent and very strong willed, he has been through a whole range of tricks to get his own way, we've had the rearing, the bolting, the shying, the standing with his head in the corner and shifting his backside around which ever way to try to approach, the lifting his head up high so you can't get his bridle on, the running away in the field, all have only lasted a couple of weeks or so but the broncoing has definitely escalated.  The vet says he is fine just a wilful character,  and to be honest we all love his quirky/frustrasting personality but this is too dangerous.  We have had a couple of very experienced riders assess him and they all say he is just too clever for his own good,  and he sees us as his 'mares' and he is our 'boss'.  Time for a behavioural expert to intervene I think.  The buckstop would be a very last resort if there was no other way.  I will get the vet to check his 'bits' next time he calls.  Hope you feel better soon  Ella xx

Here is a question for you all (and don't shoot me down in flames for asking) BUT do you think we are now so obsessed with having a baby because we have been told we can't?  A sort of we want it more beacuse its being denied?  Someone asked me yesterday that if I knew I had 10 more years to have a baby whether I would even want one now, or is it because I know I can't that I want one so badly. It did make me stop and think for a while,  thoughts please?


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## bernie1971

Hi Lesley, nice to read again. Hi Ajw too! It's kind of nice to see familiar names. Looking forward to getting to know everyone else. 
a bit tipsy right now. First few glasses of wine after about 6 weeks of nothing at all so sorry if it makes relatively little sense.
Lesley - regarding your post, what I thought of is that as a donor egg recipient in Spain at 41 I suddenly felt "young" again  - because the age limit here is 50, and they try to convince you that the chances of success are the same regardless of whether you're younger or pushing 50, which I struggle to believe but anyway  - my point is, it doesn't make it any easier.  I have acquaintances who are my age and have kids in their late teens... which makes me wonder, once I finally do have a child, will everyone assume it is my grandchild? These thoughts freak me out but are still not enough for me to say, okay, I give up. Does this make sense?


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## MJ1

Hi Lesley,

Thank you for the fairy dust and you don't know how much I so want this DE to work for me and all of you that are going through this tough journey. None of us deserve this and you hit the nail on the head, I never expected to be doing IVF once let alone four cycles down and still nothing. 

MJ1 XXX


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## bernie1971

MJ1 I can absolutely relate.. and it gets harder and harder to stay positive I find. Let's try though


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## ajw

Lesley, I think it's definitely true that we want most the things that we can't have. I wasn't even trying for a baby until I was told I had endometriosis and might have fertility problems. Now I feel like its the most important thing in the world and it's taken over my life for the past two years. 

I think a lot of people are more disappointed after their first failed DE cycle than after OE ivf, especially at our age, as it's only natural that we expect better results with a younger person's eggs. Thing is, it's always a combination of good embies and luck!  . I think it get's harder every failed cycle though, whether OE or DE. You really have to be strong to get though this. We should all be proud of ourselves for sticking at it and getting this far   

Afm, just when I thought I was out of the woods and ready to go with my next cycle, I had a mammogram this morning, and they need to do two biopsies! I can't start treatment until they've done them and I've got the results    

I'm so sick of set backs. I can't wait to get going again. Just feels like everything is against me!


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## RachelMaria

Hi Ladies

Sorry - I haven't been on for a while - hope you are all OK?

I have a quick question about Clomid - I have been tracking my ovulation for a while now and I am definately having some problems and only seem to be ovulating one month in every three - I have spoken to a Doctor to try and get a prescription for Clomid, but he says it does not help with conception for ladies over 40.

I though that Clomid helped if you had ovulation problems - so I am not sure where the ago thing comes in - do you think he is just talking about the normal pregnancy stats for ladies over 40?

Does anyone have any experience with this drug?

Thanks


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## bernie1971

ajw that's horrible!!! how are you coping? I am sending a big hug out to you....


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## Cornishtwinkle

Ajw - why is it some people (lots of us on ff in fact) get a whole load of pain and sorrow thrown at us and ten some more s**t on top. Hope it's nothing and you can get to plan quickly. 

Rachelm - afraid I have no clomid experience.


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## bernie1971

RachelM, I did take Clomid last autumn and it seemed to work for me. Not massively, but instead of having one follicle develop I would have two and sometimes even three (I did 4 cycles). Needless to say I cannot tell you if these follicles then gave mature eggs, or if the eggs fertilised. I have never heard about Clomid not working for us older ladies, I suppose unless one really is on the brink of menopause, which you aren't, otherwise you wouldn't even consider using your own eggs.


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## jane66

Hello,http://static.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/Smileys/classic/sad.gif

Everybody sounds low, we need some feel good sunshine and light !! spring will be here this weekend -get some fresh air it'll become vitamin d and make us feel better ! http://static.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/Smileys/classic/togetherhug.gif


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## fififi

Evening everyone,

Lots of posts recently so will probably miss people/topics out so apologies in advance.

moominmum - Happy belated birthday for Saturday    I hope you had some fun and your LO enjoyed treating you to lots of nice things
- sorry to see you've still not managed your miracle yet. I know only too well the pain of desperately wanting a sibling and being constantly surrounded by other mummies who seem to be popping them out all too easily. Now everyone is onto number three it seems even more unfair and my ability to try and ignore the pain I feel when hearing news and having to congratulate is becoming harder to conceal. Friends are aware that their news needs to be broken to me discretely but I'm not sure they've any comprehension of how the following 48 hours plus all I think about is how useless I am in comparison to them and why it can't be me sharing baby news.
Having seen the state of my ovaries in a photo last month and having had poor hormone test results this I'm now almost ready to accept the move to DE but it is still a battle with my heart as that knows by making the change I'm accepting that I can't create a baby. I've no doubts about how much I'll love a baby should I be lucky enough to get one from either OE or DE but it's the giving up on myself that I'm struggling with. Crazy, cos what I really want is a baby and the chances using DE are so much higher ... why, oh, why are our emotions so strong still?!!!!

Lesley - not just me then discovering pg ladies and babies everywhere!!! Was wondering if my TV had become possessed!!!  
Glad DP is being more supportive - he won't want to lose someone as wonderful as you. Are you having a telephone appointment with Penny or actually going over there? Is it soon?
- Not sure about your theory. For me I think it's more of a desire to be who I dreamed of being when growing up - as a child I wrote in my diary that when I was older I wanted to be a mummy and have 6 children. As an adult the idea of 6 kids is crazy but part of me still feels that for me to become who I've always dreamt of being I need to have children.

Ella -     Hope you feel little happier soon ... well actually I hope you feel LOTS happier  

Bernie - hello & welcome, hope your visit is a quick one and you get good news soon  

MJ - as you move up the list you'll be that much closer to a fantastic chance of success. It's the waiting that's getting you down - try and remember how much better your chances will be once your next cycle starts      

ajw - OMG ... I can't believe how much cr*p life is throwing at you right now. You sound so calm about it all. I do hope that all these biopsies are negative and you've nothing else to worry about. Thinking of you and hoping you get a spate of good news that is even longer than all these negative problems           

rachel - not been on Clomid since turned 40 so can't help you much there. Am however seeing consultant via NHS clinic in few weeks to discuss whether Clomid might be helpful to me in my quest for a natural miracle whilst on waiting list for DE IVF and/or saving up for TX. I have seen posts on the over 40's board somewhere about this so might be worth you looking there.

Debs - are you back from South Africa yet? Hope you had/are having lovely time and have had lots of fun and time to relax

kirstylovessushi - how are you doing hun. Hope you're okay as not like you to not post for so long    

Cornishtwinkle, Hopeful, Cool Jules & Jane - hello and hugs, hoping life giving you more positives than negatives   

AFM - As you see I'm still hesitating over DE/OE debate. Have tried to ignore it over last few weeks as been very emotional and down as Easter last year was when I lost my twins. Trying to regain a little positivity now and be braver in facing the world.
My totally terrible hormone levels three weeks ago haven't helped - especially when GP said that they were consistant with someone entering menopause!!! He told me not to panic and they were probably a blip but how do you stop your mind going into overdrive when everything else hormonal is screwed!!! Thankfully the re-test results are a little better - no longer menopausal (phew!!!) - but hormone levels still much worse than they were 6 months ago.

Has anyone else taking DHEA found it has affected their hormone levels? My oestrogen level on Day 3 is now 110 which is way higher than ever before. I've cut the DHEA down to 50mg a day as was starting to get lots of spots and greasy hair so fairly sure this is what is causing the increase. Unsure whether to stop altogether as not managed to work out from Dr Google whether high levels of oestrogen are actually such a bad thing or not. All I can ascertain is they should be between 25 & 75. If anyone has any advice I'd be grateful. (Feel uncomfortable contacting my clinic as although they wanted to put me on DHEA trial I opted just to take it on my own to avoid getting "smarties" so not sure how keen to help me they'd be.)


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## bernie1971

HI, just an update! I hate it when I don't post for a while, it feels like I've lost touch with everyone and it's hard to get back on the forum somehow.

Probably won't post and will just lurk until the end of next week.... will be quite busy, DP is back and knowing me I won't get a chance.

Had my consultation at the clinic yesterday. It has been decided to do a FET now, i.e. I need to bleed (still haven't even though I stopped progynova and pessaries on Monday after BFN) and then it's about 2 weeks until the transfer. They agreed to transfer 2 embies this time. Yeah! Same protocol, adding a dose of intralipids... 

Updates to follow.

Love to all!

B.


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## ajw

Thanks Bernie, Cornish and fifi. Feeling pretty low today. Went to see gym to discuss results and she basically told me that if either biopsy turns out positive that will be the end of my ivf journey. I felt like I was going to pass out! I didn't realize. I really saw this as another set back, not the end of the road.    
Anyway, trying not to think about that yet. Clinic offered me an appt on29th April. It would be torture to wait that long, as it's another 10 days after that before you get the results, so I'm pushing them for an earlier one. They're ringing me tomorrow afternoon to confirm   

Fifi, sending you     too. I can't believe a year has gone by already. It must have been a hard time for you at Easter. Especially if those around you don't know, or don't seem to understand.  I really hope you have some luck on your next cycle    
Sorry can't help on the DHEA.


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## fififi

Ajw     
Not surprised you feel low - do hope that there's no need to be feeling worried & biopsies all clear. Have you had the biopsies yet or is that the date they're suggesting? If they're happy to wait until 29th then that's good sign as when I had dodgy lump the biopsy was within a week. If suspicions are high then no time is wasted.
Thinking of you and can only begin to imagine how worried you must be feeling about both your health and risk of no more IVF


----------



## ajw

Thanks fifi. They're not happy to wait that long. The doctor who did the scan gave me a note for the reception saying I needed a quick appointment, but the first date they've got available is the 29th! She's trying to contact another Dr to see if he's available on 18th. Just want it all to be over...


----------



## hopeful68

AJW - can you not get some eggs put in storage as a just in case? looking at the worst out come, if you do need ops and chemo, can they do an op - remove the lumps, allow your to stimm and collect eggs to freeze then start any chemo and look to restart IVF after. all questions to ask I would say. on the positive side though lumps are lumps and many are benign and just stay put or are removed with no further treatment. - I obviously hope it is the latter for you! too much cancer around at the moment in my circle of people.

not posted for a while, been SO busy. 2 part time jobs at the same place and a uni course. the course is an absolute load of ( ) rubbish. but it a module within a course so has to be done!!  what a waste of time and money and effort! my feed back form is not going to read well - will have to do anonymously  so I don't get a fail!!!

gearing up for a w/end away with extended family for my grandfather's 90th!! lucky to still have him, he has a pacemaker which when checked and they slow it down shows basically he heart has no interest in beating with out it - I hope the battery keeps going!. he has had a day surgery on what I was told was a knee op and it slipped out that the 'tumour was successfully removed' from his bladder WTF - no chemo required. Oh and in the pre op scan they found an aortic aneurysm which needs to be repaired! - then he can have his knee op!!!

so not had much time to think about future plans for kids - I will be surrounded by a niece of 4, nephew of 3 and what ever my cousin's daughter is to me aged 2, so I think i will be saturated this w/end. it may help make up minds (or not), I just hope there aren't too many questions as I haven't seen that side of the family in ages.  I think I am resigned to the fact I wont ever have any but then get a surge of regret or hope (including AF being 3 days late at the moment- but logic stays it is just late as Dh was away at the crucial time and since he has been back is refusing to shave his god awful beard off so no nookie until it goes - and I have a stronger will power than him - not sure if I should take it personally that he would rather have a beard than me ....!! 

My dog is STILL plodding on, no idea how. I come down stairs every morning and expect to find him in the big sleep - which would leave me with a stock of tramadol!! (my DH will no doubt finish them off with his aches and pains!!).

Working from home today so I can get away early to near Badminton for this party w/end, hence the post. I have skimmed but missed loads so apologies for a lack of personals. hi to the new ladies - sorry you had to join us. will post after the w/end.... have a good one!!


----------



## artist_mum

hi
a belated post to update you guys - i have been off FF for a while and then very upset and not sure what to post and where...

we had our tx 12 March, all went well, 2ww was torture as always then we got a bfp (after a negative pee stick the night before and went out eating dodgy mussels so was ill the following week... will never know if that affected it). Was then monitored by ARGC. Hcg levels were OK but then not doubling as they are supposed to. Ended up with an early scan to check if ectopic this Monday. Inconclusive but def no pregnancy. Levels of hcg now falling and cannot rule out ectopic or maybe just failed to implant.

so in the grieving process again....

*ajw* so sorry to read of your current situation. xxx

Everyone else, hi and sorry for not writing sooner or more personal today. We are going off for the weekend, try to get ourselves together again

Roxy xx


----------



## MJ1

Roxy. So sorry to hear your sad news. 
Love MJ1 xxx


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## LellyLupin

Wow ajw thats such a blow, I am praying your results are negative for the first time ever, I truly pray you get a Bfn.      As Cornish Twinkle says its so  unfair that some people get such a run of bad luck.  I hope you get an earlier appointment and are not made to wait.    Hopeful makes a good suggestion, could that be a possibility for you?  I wish I had thought to do that when I was much younger.

Oh Roxy you must be devastated, so close this time, and a double blow when there is hope and then nothing.  I am so very sorry   I hope you feel better soon and your weekend away helps a little.  xxx

Hi Feefs no its not just your tv that only runs baby ads, we really can't escape from it, I don't know if its better to immerse yourself in it and try to de-sensitise yourself,  or try to avoid it altogether.  Either way its not working for me at the moment.  So much for DP and support,  as soon as I told him I had contacted Penny he went really moody and I ended up in tears again, he thinks its all just a waste of time.  So I have only filled in half of the form Penny sent me,  and I have asked my Consultant to write me a summary up of what he thinks I should do.  I originally asked him for my file to look through but he wouldn't give me it.  I think that is a cheek as I have given him more than 10k so far, so as far as I'm concerned I have more than paid for my information!    I was really mad that he wouldn't give me it,  but he did say he would write me a summary which I will have to craftily pick up when I take Mum to the chest clinic on Monday.  I still waver between giving up/trying again with OE/DE,  this week I am trying to give my mind a break as its doing my head in (and DPs)

I have just aquired a new hedgehog today,  as my friend rang to say he had one on his lawn and he thought it was poorly.  He is chomping away on catfood as I type so hopefully he will make it, they are all waking up from hibernation now so lots of wobbly weak ones around,  Its amazing how fast they recover once rescued.  So thats 3 now as I found my missing hedgehog Spike, far from thinking he had run away he has actually been hibernating in the garage    Sonic is a great big fat healthy girl now so she can be set free, once Spike and the newbie put a bit of weight on they can go too.  So thats my good deeds for nature done with until next Winter.  I guess my mothering instincts have to be fulfilled somewhere  


Jeez Hopeful your Grandad is a tough cookie isn't he and 90 years old too.  I didn't get the opportunity to have Grandparents so cherish him as much as you can wjile you've got him.  I hope he sails through his ops and gets his telegram from the queen, he will bloody deserve it!  Poor you being surrounded by toddlers,  but as you say it may make up your mind as to what to do next - or not as the case may be.  I tried to avoid my friend with the baby and haven't rang her,  but then she rang me yesterday telling me how down she was,  and asking me for my email address so she could send me some baby pics - sigh!  I give in!  I nearly said she should thank her lucky stars shes got a baby, but managed to squish that sentence before it came out    Glad to hear your dog is still on the go, had mine at the vets again as she has ulcers in her mouth,  and they said shes just like an old lady who gets ulcers on her legs,  and the top and bottom of it is shes old.  They did say she wasn't 'an end of life' dog but at 15 she is very elderly.  So antibiotics till the end of her days, I don't mind though I'd do anything to keep her going.

Good Luck Bernie can't wait to hear how you get on when you start your treatment xx

Had a bit of bad news today as my friend has decided to sell Toby the horse,  due to him being so difficult to handle, she has found a buyer who is taking him at the end of April.  I suddenly went into a bit of a panic as the horses seem to help fill the void not having a baby creates.  I am wondering what I will do with myself once he goes.    Saying that this must be the fourth or fifth time she has attempted to sell him and they've always brought him back.  


Anyway DP is bugging me to go to the shop for him as he is in his dressing gown so I will sign off.

Hi to anyone I have missed and Kirsty Fifi is right, where are you?  Much love to you all hope you have a lovely Sunday xx


----------



## LellyLupin

Doh - turns out its not Spike in the garage its a bloody mouse I have been feeding   Idiot


----------



## ajw

Oh Roxy, what an awful situation. So much hope shattered     . Hope you are managing to get through this tough time. 

Thanks for thinking of ideas for me hopeful. I like practical steps. Helps me not to dwell on the negative, but unfortunately I've never managed to get any eggs of good enough quality to freeze. Still, I'll be asking lots of questions, including that one if it comes to it. 
Luckily I've managed to get appointments for the biopsies this week. One on Thursday and one on Friday. That means I should have the results by 29th April. Phew! 
Had a roller coaster of a weekend. Did lots of nice things but spent lots of time arguing with DP. I guess we're both stressed. I'd like to talk to him about it but he won't. He just keeps saying everything will be ok... Men...
Looking forward to my fertility yoga class tonight to de-stress! 

Can't believe Spike is a mouse Lesley! That's the first thing to make me laugh since last Tuesday!


----------



## hopeful68

well the birthday w/end went well. only a few family arguments. Dads new fiancee and I haven't really hit it off and we had a few 'discussions', my dad tried to choke himself to death and I was poised to hit him on the back but he sorted himself out, but I was thinking how the hell will an ambulance find this place and why didn't I bring my kit with me!? the kids were lovely (and demanding!), the weather made for a soggy walk and my new jeans made my legs go blue - so note to self - don't wash them with any light colours!! on the positives there was a lot of wine flowing (possibly why there were so many discussions!!) the house was lovely - a 17th century family home - apparently for sale for 2.3 million (not quite got enough for a deposit, darn!!). food was great too. had to come back a bit early as my neighbour said the dog wasn't eating (2 days) which also means he hadn't had his pain meds so a 2 hr run home and he ate straight away - sulky dog!! ahh well back to work tomorrow!! normality returns!


----------



## LellyLupin

Glad it made you laugh ajw I feel a right nit now,  its cost me a fortune in kitten food    Oh well at least the mouse has had a good feast, or should I say mice as there is never only one of them is there.  

Its a shame your DP won't let you talk, hes probably just scared and doing what most men do and hiding from it. I sometimes wonder if we are two different species. Is there anyone else you can talk to, have you told your family what you are going through?  You can talk to us although I know thats not quite the same  

Glad you survived the 'family' weekend Hopeful.  What don't you like about your stepmum to be?  I too have suffered from the new jeans syndrome only I thought there was something wrong with me as my hands had turned blue, I couldn't work out what was wrong and thought my circulation had gone    My dog sulks too and refuses to eat if I am away, isn't it great that they love us so much they can't eat when we are not around - thats true devotion, better than any man.  My Suzy's Doggles came today so I will post you a picture.  DP doesn't want to take her for a walk in them but its either those or a coloured contact lens and I know whats easier.  After being surrounded by toddlers did it make your mind up either way, were you ok?

AFM got my letter of my consultant so I know a bit more about what happened with my treatment, I am going to send all the info to Penny at Serum and see what she thinks.  If she says she thinks I should give up on my OE I will go for counselling and see if I can get that message in my head and try to move on.  I also told my Mum that I had had ivf, she was very chilled and wasn't upset that I didn't tell her (unlike DPs mother who is still not speaking to us).  Oh and my bipolar friend with the baby wants to come and see me with him at the weekend.  DP says tell her no, but I guess I am gonna have to get used to the idea and try to de-sensitize myself to it, shes already calling me his Auntie Lesley, I bloody hope she doesn't pick me as Godmother


----------



## Moominmum

Why do I leave it so long to post every time? I never learn.

Firstly, *ajw* so sorry about your news. I am keeping my fingers crossed for you for the smoothest outcome and solution. 

*Roxy*, sorry to hear about your news too. Hope you take the time to heal your wounds properly. 

*Lesley*, you always have so much going on in your life. Does it ever stop? Funny about Spike though  Re your bipolar friend, do NOT see her again until you are emotionally ready. In the long term, it should not matter to your friend. And if it matters to her well then she is not your friend. What I mean is do not feel obliged to see her until you are ready. 

*Hopeful*, well done for managing the weekend. Sounds like an interesting one. 

*Feefs*, how are you? Do you have many preggers mums around? I have - it is a never ending stream of them... 

To everyone else, lots of   

And    to everyone


----------



## fififi

Not time for proper post as off to bed in minute as early start tomorrow but wanted to send few more hugs to Roxy (hope you're coping ok and are giving yourself time to be sad)

AJW - so pleased the biopsy date is sooner though I can't imagine how you're coping with this on top of everything else. Will be thinking of you Thurs & Fri and wishing with all my might its all clear    

Lesley - agree with Moom in that you shouldn't see friend this weekend. Right now you're already low & this won't help. She may not understand but you need to think of yourself so come up with an excuse. When you're ready you'll be that great friend again I promise. (I've even managed to babysit & not run off with the kids for my friend who had her LO when my first BFN should have been born ... I didn't see the baby until she was nearly 6 months as was too painful but now can cuddle & feed with only a twinge of sadness rather than ripped heart)

Hugs to all & will post properly in next day or so


----------



## Moominmum

*Lesley* a quick one again. I don't think you even have to come up with an excuse to not see your friend this weekend. I've always made up excuses for when I don't want to do something but recently I just say "I am sorry, I can't". Seldom people ask why and if they do, you just say "Something has come up" and leave it like that. You do not have to tell everyone everything (well, unless you want to) and you do not owe others that in most cases. But someone you do owe is yourself...


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hello girls,

Sorry I've been a stranger and have gone AWOL in recent weeks. Lost my mojo a bit and can't seem to get motivated. This whole infertility thing is taking it's toll. My cousin just announced her first pregnancy (she's 35) and it's due on the 10th of Dec. I'm already panicking about the torture of Christmas 

Trying to catch up, but have left it too long... I'll have a try though... here goes...!

*Roxy*....I'm so, so sorry to hear your news. No words can make you feel better at the moment. Sending you lots of love and big hugs. Look after yourself.  

*Ella*..... sorry you are low too. It sounds like a few of us are in the same emotional boat at the moment. I know how you feel 

*Lesley*.... how are things with DP now after the row at Easter? All sorted? Is he being a bit more supportive now? I can't believe your MIL is still ignoring you!! What is wrong with some people? Did you get in touch with Penny yet? Sorry I went off the radar and thanks for thinking of me. Good point about desperately wanting a baby because we're told we can't.... like a cream doughnut when on a diet! I think it's more about our ticking body clocks that makes the desperation kick in... but maybe the two are linked? If you were 35 instead of 45 I wonder if the longing would be less so? Most probably hun. Sorry to hear Toby is going to be sold  ... I hope it doesn't go through for your sake. Did you learn anything new from the letter? Moomin and Fifi are right... wait until you are ready before your friend and the baby comes over again. It may be too much for you to handle still. Sorry I've been a stranger lovie.

*Fififi*.....thanks for the PM. Did you get retested for all your AMH and FSH levels? Were the retests better? Change your diet? I feel the same as you with feeling sad when I write. We need to get some positivity back! Did you make a final decision to go for DE? Sorry for all the questions. I've had spots with DHEA as well.. but see it as a positive as my body thinks it's young again! I haven't had my hormones re-tested since taking it though. I really do think all the eggs I got last cycle had something to do with it though. My cycles are longer now.... from 25/26 days to 28/29... this is consistent with younger years as well! Did you drop down to 50?

*Cornish*... did you have any luck with your screening questions? My consultant said it's pretty likely every woman over 40 will have a chromosomal problem and spending £3,000 on proving that can be a waste of money that's better put into another cycle or DE cycle. Other women just 'need to know' for sure and think the money is well spent. Have you looked into the EEVA machine as a way of picking a strong embryo for transferral?

*Jane*....sorry to hear about your unsuccessful DE cycle at Eugin. How are you feeling now? I've heard frozen cycle can be more advantageous than fresh ones because the body is rested. Although I think that could be evidence from OE cycles rather than DE? I would go for another fresh cycle if the funds permit! If it has a higher chance it seems a better option.

*Hopeful.*....glad your family do went ok. Shame about the new fiancee... what's she's like? Your poor Dad! That's great you had some quality time with the kids.

*MJ*.... hiya, how are you? I see another blasted AF arrived end of March  Mine is expected any day and I just dread this time of the month. How much longer do the clinic think it will take before getting a match? So are there 55 women ahead of you at the moment?

*ajw*.......that receptionist sounded vile... I would have been in floods of tears. How great in France they fund up to 43 years of age! Sorry to hear about biopsies with regards to your mammograms... is it something they do at a younger age in France? In the UK it's 50 I think? 29th Apr is miles away.... glad they've managed to fit you in Thurs and Fri. I'm praying for you all is well. Do something nice relaxing things to calm yourself... did yoga help?  

*Moomin*.... hello! Totally understand that DE is too far away to contemplate emotionally... I'm still struggling to get there as well.

*Bernie*.... sorry about your recent BFN... I've never had a positive test either... heartbreaking isn't it? I always think a break will make me feel worse, but DP made me last time as I was such a wreck and I have to admit, I did feel better afterwards. Be kind to yourself. Best of luck with your FET!!

*Rachel.*... I have experience of Clomid... but I took it in my middle 30's. It helped me ovulate every month, but I still didn't conceive. I didn't think it was age specific to be honest so that suprises me what your doctor said. Surely it has to help if you aren't ovulating... no matter what your age?

*AFM*.... decided to go for one last OE cycle end of May (after next AF)... my parents are kindly funding the treatment for us.

xxx


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## MJ1

Morning Ladies,

Wow this thread has got busy, glad to see you all back and sorry that some of you are feeling low. I think staying away from kids helps me but I realise that isn't always an option for some of you. I have got a Christening at the end of May which I am kind of dreading.... the mum is my age and had her first at 40 then 42....

*Kirsty * , hi hun, oh wow end of May....good luck hun wishing you lots and lots of luck. Yes you are right we have 55 in front of us. Still scheduled for 6 months so hopefully be matched by August? not really sure hun and not thinking about it too much 
Sorry no more time for personals as off to Lister to have bloods and DP's sample done... , so a few steps closer.

Love to all.
MJ1 xxxx


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## Sushi Lover

*MJ*... good luck with your blood tests and DP's sample! Hope it all looks good. August is not far away at all!! How exciting.

xx


----------



## MJ1

Kirsty


----------



## Ronnie3007

*Roxy* So sorry for your loss, sending you big 

*Kirsty* Excellent news on the starting of new tx with some financial help  

*AFM* Sorry not been on for a while. I guess the whole fertility journey affected me quite badly and I sort of blocked it out. DH informed me yesterday he still gets upset about it. Well I am due to have my clips off on Monday 22nd April, as long as my AF arrives this week. So like the starting of a tx I really want this AF to be on time. I am also thinking of asking gynae after op about the use of clomid. Also still trying to find work here. I have made friends with the owner of a dog grooming salon here and was hoping she might be able to offer me work but due to the shop still be quite new, she cannot afford to pay me a wage. Everything I try to do seems to go pearshaped, sometimes makes me feel like giving up .

Hope everyone's ok


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hi *Ronnie*,

Sorry to hear you are feeling down as well. It seems to be par for the course at the moment on this forum. Sounds like you have a lot going on in Germany with the treatment, your op and finding work. Sometimes it does feel like everything you try and do is against you... I know that feeling! I'm sure things will pick up again soon. Life seems to work in cycles. Just because you are in a 'down cycle' at the moment, doesn't mean it will always be that way. You are due an 'up cycle' soon. We all are! Good luck with having the clips removed. I'm not sure about ovulation and your procedure. Did you not ovulate before? Or just ovulate, but the egg couldn't find it's way to the uterus because of the tubes being clipped? If you aren't ovulating then Clomid is worth a try. The GP usually tests you for progesterone levels on day 21 or 22 to tell. If they aren't raised then you haven't ovulated. Funny thing is RachelMaria on this forum is being told it's not suitable for over 40's?! Which is odd. I'd be interested to see what your gynae says about it.

Chin up hun... things WILL get better  xxx


----------



## artist_mum

Thanks to *moominum, lesley, ronnie, fififi, kirsty, mj1, ajw* for your  and stuff. I am taking this week off from uni and one minute feeling terrible then OK. I guess it's all part of the grief. Underneath it all, this terror of childlessness and an anxiety that I am a useless, negative person. People tell me I have such great potential - but what's the good of unrealised potential?

Sorry, a little negative. It's a struggle at the mo  I keep reading about adoption/fostering etc on FF and just think I couldn't do it. OH is positive we will be parents and we will do more IVF, but even that at the moment - I just don't think I can do all the drugs that go with (i had a lot of immunes drugs, 3 injections per day etc).

Just wanted to say *kirsty* I'm so pleased to see you are going for OE cycle with a little help from your folks. Everything crossed for you.

hi to everyone else on here, sorry not to write personals to you - i have read how you are all getting on but i just feel rubbish right now. I know this will change in time. Hopefully you will all be where you want to be by then!

much love Roxy xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Oh *Roxy*, I'm so sad for you and feel your pain.  This process can be so cruel when you get a negative outcome and is really hard to bounce back from. No wonder some people have one go and say "enough is enough". I can understand that now. All the things you've said ...the terror, anxiety, negativity and feeling useless are feelings we've all felt... I know I have. Never apologise for being a little negative... especially to us. We understand more than most Rox. I wish there was something I could say to make you feel better. At the moment, everything is so raw and you are at the beginning of the grief process. Give yourself some time to heal before you make any further decisions about the next steps. Your head is all over the place right now so once you start feeling better everything will seem easier to deal with and you'll regain some positively. The only good thing about being rock bottom is that things can only get better. Rubbish I know... but it's true.

Take care of yourself and keep in touch. If you want a negative rant on here then don't hold back. That's what we are here for.

I just know you'll find a way to be a Mum. Your strength and self-belief will get you there.

xxx


----------



## artist_mum

*kirsty* thank you so much. so helpful. everything you say on there. I will give myself more time. And we will not give up xxx


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## de_vi

I have not been here for literally ages - and now such sad news! Roxy, I am so sorry to hear about your loss!!  (and know exactly where you are right now as the same happened to us in November...) 

It will take time to heal..... Thinking of you! de_vi


----------



## artist_mum

thanks a lot de_vi.
Good luck with yours this time.  
Roxy x


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## Sushi Lover

*Roxy*... how are you feeling today lovie?

*de_vi*... I see you are starting your next IVF cycle this month... are you already stimming?

*ajw*... how did your biopsies go hun? Thinking of you.

Quick update from my side.. AF started today so I'm a bit low, but trying to focus on the positives in that I can get everything booked for my next IVF cycle in May! Throwing everything and the kitchen sink at this final go with my own eggs... intralipids, steroids, EmbryoGlue, EEVA, endometrial scratch plus a new thing called a Neupogen Uterine Wash (anyone heard of it?) I've googled a bit and the drug Neupogen (chemical name G-csf) is used for cancer patients undergoing chemo to stimulate stem cell growth and white blood cell production. Apparently it really helps implantation, improves and thickens the uterus lining helping the embryo to bond and reducing the chance of m/c. I've read some things about it being used as a drug that you inject, but not as a uterine wash?! Can anyone enlighten me?

xx


----------



## artist_mum

hi *kirsty* I"m a bit better thanks for asking.. met a couple of friends for coffee today, started trying to get the house straight and planning to take tomorrow off and then get on with things next week again. There's a time for grieving, and a time for getting on I suppose. Had bloods to confirm HcG has gone right down - should know tomorrow and perhaps that will help finalise this cycle. Thing is that all i want to do is to get on here and research options. And plan our next steps. OH suggests letting things rest just for a bit, then see (he def wants another try as do I).

We are thinking we may go for a clinic in this country (with ARGC for immunes). Anyone got any recommendations for DE in South East/London?

Sorry no idea on the Neupogen but sounds worth a go. I"m sure somebody on here will know!

All the best, Roxy xx


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## TamsinT

Hi Roxy
I'm with the Lister for DE, and they've been fantastic


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## Coolish

*Kirsty* - I had Neupogen on my last cycle in Spain last year. I had it as a wash too. It's supposed to help implantation and my old clinic had seen some success with it. They administer it 5 and 3 days before ET. My lining was very good and tripled lined on that cycle so they decided only to do the 5 days before and not do the 3 days before too. It's an easy procedure. A bit like ET where they put a catheter in and it's over in a couple of minutes. I think I had to lie down for 5-10 mins afterwards.


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## Sushi Lover

*CoolJules*... thanks for the info, really interesting. Can I ask how much it cost in Spain? Few hundred euros thereabouts?

I see from your signature you are going for a cycle at Serum this month! How is everything going?

xx


----------



## Coolish

Hey *Kirsty -* I think it was 150 euros for the first session and then would have been 100 euros for the 2nd session. It maybe more in the UK though as these things, like intralipids, tend to be cheaper abroad.

Yep, I had 3 blasts transferred on Wednesday so currently in the 2ww. We also had 3 blasts frozen, so all is good so far


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## Sushi Lover

Oh wow *Jules*! Fantastic news. Good luck for your 2ww and lots of positive thoughts coming your way for a successful cycle. I hope this is 'the one'.

Take it easy!  

xxx


----------



## Louisej29

Hi ladies

Do you mind if I join  your thread. Have been on the current cyclers, the miscarriage and trying again after loss.  Just got a bfn today and thinking this might be the best thread now! 

Not having a good day! Absolutely gutted to get a bfn x


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## Sushi Lover

Oh, hello *Louise*... I'm been chatting to you on the "Current Cycler's" forum today... in case you aren't reading that one now I've copied and pasted what I've just written to you on there below.....

_During my follow-up appt after the third failure the consultant said the following....

"If you have enough money for one more cycle then go straight to donor eggs as the percentage success rates are as high as 60%... however if you have the funds for two or three more cycles, then try again with own eggs one more time (as I produce a good number of eggs and have no other issues to speak of, also good FSH and AMH levels for my age)...then move onto DE cycles. Put yourself on the donor list when you start your final cycle with OE, if it works you won't care about the £450 fee you've wasted. If it doesn't work you have the fallback of DE and are already higher up the waiting list"
_

I hope that helps re your question about whether to stick with OE or move to DE.

Thinking of you... this is a brilliant place for us BFN'ers.. all the girls are full of great advice and support.

xxx


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## artist_mum

*louise* really sorry to read that it didn't work out this time for you. Kirsty gives good advice there... And do just give yourself a bit of time, it's so hard to go through the emotions, we all know this on here. Sending you a big  Take good care of yourself, have some treats, spoil yourself and I'm you'll know when to move forward again. For some, it does seem to be a numbers game..

*cooljules* I saw that you've been over to Serum, so excited for you... wishing you every luck in the world and lots of .

hi everyone else

Roxy xx


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## artist_mum

and thank you *tamsinT* - we may well consider the Lister. Can you tell me how it works for donor eggs with them? Is it a wait list with a charge and if so, how long have you had to wait?

thanks, Roxy xx


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## Ronnie3007

*Kirsty* Yep def feel like we are due an up time, been too long coming. I will let you know what they say 

*Roxy* It really is a harsh journey on IVF, so many ups and downs then questions when it does not work. I am feeling your pain at the moment. Sending you lots of love  

*CoolJules* Congrats on being in your 2ww, everything crossed for you. Sending loads of glue for those lil embies    

*Louise* Hiya welcome, so sorry for your BFN, try to keep positive and focus on your next step. Hard I know  

*Hello to everyone else I have missed off hope you are all ok*

*AFM* Well my naughty AF was due on Wednesday and still has not arrived. In a panic got DH to ring Clinic today to ask whether they would still do my reversal on Monday. Great news its still going ahead but OMG if I have not had an AF by Monday I dread to think of the loss, they are checking the lining of my womb etc aswell so what is in there will have to come out YUKKKKKK!!


----------



## Louisej29

Hey Kirsty

Thanks for that, that's really good advise.  Think we will go with one more OE cycle as dont feel quite ready to give up yet ! Will look at putting our names down for donor as well to cover all bases. Where abouts are you doing your next cycle?    Good luck with it, hope it's the one for you! 

Cool jules.  What's it like at serum? See so many posts about how good it is there.  Think we are going to stay with the lister for this next one then consider overseas if we need to after that. 

Tamsin.  See you are at the lister.  Do you know if you can register for possible De cycle whilst doing OE cycle there, would be interested in how it works. 

We have decided to book a holiday for may and get away.  I worry about the cost of a holiday with ivf 4 now to pay for, but dh is adamant we need it for our sanity, recharge batteries and focus on us.  Maybe he is right and some sunshine will do us good.  Just can't stop crying after today's bfn, gutted gutted gutted.  

Hope you all doing ok, and look forward to getting to know you all.  Xx love louise x


----------



## Coolish

Thanks to everyone for the good wishes!
*
Louise* - Serum is kind of different. When I had my first telephne consultation with Penny I felt she hit the nail on the head and offered suggestions that hadn't come up before. It's a smaller clinic and is very friendly. ET was the most relaxed and easiest that I've ever had. It somehow feels less clinical there. Also for DE there are no waiting lists. You mention you're at the Lister though, and that also seems to be very well thought of on FF. BTW - your DH s right about booking a holiday xx


----------



## TamsinT

Hi Louise, you can go on the waiting list for DE at the same time as doing OE.  They charge £450 (non returnable) to go on the waiting list, and ask you and partner to speak to one of their counsellors before you can go on the waiting list.  

Roxy, the waiting list is about 6 months, but can vary.  Once you're at the top of the list, you're not obliged to take the first donor that comes - you can stay at the top of the list until you find the right one.


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## Louisej29

Thanks tamsin.  How much information do you find out about the donor.  How do they go about matching you?


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## artist_mum

thanks *Tamsin*, unfortunately 6 months is too long for an older chick like me! But wishing you every success with yours. Thx for the info, Roxy xx

*cooljules* do you know off hand the cost for DE cycle (excluding immunes etc) at Serum. Am really thinking about it as an alternative to staying with Eugin, Spain (who I really like but they don't really do the personal service you are talking about with Penny)

*louise* Really feel for you when I read your post. I know how terrible the disappointment is, I hope you find your way forward soon. It sounds like you have a great DH - holiday sounds spot on.

Roxy xx


----------



## Coolish

Hi *Roxy* - just paid for one so it's still fresh in my mind! A DE cycle minus meds is 5000 euros. We bought our meds in Serum too and saved a fair bit of money. My intralipids were 100 euros there on the day of ET. A hysto, in case you may need one, is 1500 euros. Freezing embryos is 1000 euros but I believe this includes the ET. Everything is in Agate's file - http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=274114.0. If you fill out the contact form with all your info, Penny will get back to you very quickly and do a telephone consultation. I had mine a couple of days after she'd received my details and she doesn't charge for it. Doing that might give you a good idea whether or not to swap, as it won't incurr charges? At least it lets you investigate your options. BTW - I can't see your sig when I'm replying, but have you done the hidden c test?


----------



## artist_mum

hi Jules
thanks a lot for your response - all good info and yes, probably a good idea to do the telephone consult.  No, I haven't done the hidden C.  Can this be done remotely or do you need to go to Greece for it?
Roxy x

PS hope the ol' 2ww is going by nice and smoothly for you. Sending you lots of  .


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## Coolish

*Roxy* - I think the info about hidden c is in Agate's file too. Basically you send off a blood sample from your AF to Serum. It's 100 euros, but they also do a 7-in-1 test for other infections too which costs 170 euros. I had the 7-in-1. If you test positive then Penny sends you a programme of ABs that you need to take. You can get a prescription from Serum or go to your GP and they will usually write an NHS prescription for it. My AF was very different after taking the ABs for 25 days (your OH has to take them too). Just drop Serum reception a note to say you want the hidden c test and they'll send you a document with all the information. Again, it's another test you can have done whilst you're deciding on clinics etc.


----------



## LellyLupin

Hi girls, what a gobby lot you all are    Will try and catch up.

Cooljules - wishing you the very best of luck in your 2ww please please please get a BFP to give the rest of us some hope    

Roxy I feel your pain I really do.    I have had all of the emotions you have,  including the negativity and being useless thoughts.  I also get a lot of comments about what a good mother I would make, and each time it is said I can feel my stomach clench and the tears come.  I would rather people didn't say anything at all.  All of us have had all of the thoughts and emotions you have,  and all I can say to you Roxy is that you are not a naturally negative person, you are not useless, you are just grieving for what could have been like the rest of us.  We are all here for you to sound off if you need to negatively or not, and even though we can't give you a hug and tell you everything will be alright, we can understand like no-one else can  

Louise welcome to the fold, I am so sorry you got a BFN,  this is the place to be until you get your BFP.  Take that holiday if your DH says you need it then go for it.  If nothing else it will give your mind a rest and your body a chance to relax xx

Ronnie - good luck with your op, don't worry about what will come out,  they've seen it all before  

Hi Kirsty - glad to see you back I have missed your sense of humour      Good luck for May, wow you really are throwing the book at it this time  

De_Vi hello sweetie its been ages since I saw your name come up.  I am so sorry things didn't work out, I was so happy for you when you got your BFP,  I hope you are feeling ok  

Hi to Tamsin xx

Moomin do you really think a lot happens in my life?  I think its quite boring really, the one thing I wish would happen never bloody does    Well I know you and Kirsty will tell me off for this,  but I let my bipolar friend come round.  Shes just gone actually, I thought about putting her off all day and then backed out of sending a cancellation text.  As predicted I feel empty, envious and like I could cheerfully strangle her, but I have got it over with.  Cancelling it would only mean I would have had to face it next week or the week after.  The baby is gorgeous even though he cried almost constantly because he had wind.  I felt like she couldn't wait to offload him on to me, and I enjoyed every minute of holding/feeding him, even though I got a cleavage full of baby sick when his wind finally came up    I have vowed not to cry and I haven't.  I was just glad she didn't ask me to be Godmother when she invited me to his christening in September.    If I am totally honest I just want her to leave me alone, I feel happier when she is not in my life, I was trying to let the friendship drift but she got in touch with me.  

Some good new is that Toby's new owner wants me to carry on riding him and helping out, so I've been out on him today  .  He was a good boy but I must admit I am a bit scared of him in case he does his bronco billy act again.  

Not so good news is that I sent all my information to Penny at Serum and she said the old classic, its your old eggs.  She basically said at nearly 46 my eggs are past it.  She wants me to have the hidden C test and a bunch of others,  but ultimately its probably DE or nothing.  I have a telephone consultation with her soon, but I think I got my answer from the email, its exactly what my own consultant said.  

Hi to Fifi and anyone else I have missed,  I can't see any further back xx


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## fififi

Lesley - sorry Serum didn't give you a more hopeful picture but at least you've clarity from medical profession on what they recommend you do next even though that's hard to hear. Next step, when you're ready, is to decide if you & DP want to try a DE cycle - & that decision can be delayed or rushed depending on your needs and feelings.
Although I disapproved of you seeing your friend this week am very proud of how well you've handled it. Plus it's now done so you needn't be waiting for the visit and worrying. Hope DP appreciates how hard visit must have been and gives you extra cuddles tonight. Tears tonight may also prove therapeutic   
Good that Toby will still be around - even if he is a handful I think you need him in your life.

Cool joules - lots of luck & baby dust for 2ww

Roxy - glad that you're sounding a little more hopeful again and plans for another cycle. It's still early days so do make sure you're ready emotionally  

Kirsty - glad you're back with us cos I missed your cheery posts. You have a knack of making the ordinary sound so interesting. Your plans for May cycle sound great - really hope this final OE shot works. You're definitely doing all you can

Ronnie - hope op goes well & your AF doesn't affect it  

AJW - how did the biopsies go? Been thinking of you these last few days and crossing fingers and toes all is clear  

Moom - hope you're feeling little more upbeat than the last post I read of yours. I totally understand those feelings of wanting OE baby and have really struggled to agree to DE cycle next. Just wish I had more money as really would prefer just one more OE try but not sure if that failed I'd ever really be happy giving up. But since money and ability to physically & emotionally put ourselves through another cycle is limited we've decided to up our chances. (Though this has made me hope with more hope than ever before we get a natural miracle while waiting.)

Di-vi - sorry things didn't work out and you're back with us. Will look forward to you getting amazing news to surprise us all soon  

Louise & anyone else I've missed hello and hope life has been kind over weekend

AFM - well finally decided that if I am to get the baby I'm craving then DE makes sense. Ultimately DH & I want a baby so by changing to DE our conception chances increase from15% to  nearer 50% and risk of MC down from 40/50% to 15%. Not totally happy with decision but coming round so glad we'll have to wait for a donor as it'll allow me to have accepted things better (I hope!) Meanwhile on mission "miracle baby" so have exhausted DH with activity this month and have managed to get private prescription for cyclogest so taking that for 7 days as recommended to help boost progesterone levels. Oh, and have upped vitamins and supplements there's no longer room for coffee jar near kettle even if I did want caffeine again!!!!


----------



## LellyLupin

Hi Feefs    No such luck DP has gone to bed and left me downstairs, saying that he has made me 3 cups of tea and a hot water bottle, as I am coming down with a cold.  He did say before he went to bed that I could cry if I wanted to,  as he knows its all his fault - bless him.  I haven't cried because I am sick of crying if I am honest, it just gives me a bad head and makes my eyes swell up.  I am pretty proud too that I got through the visit, DP said my mask didn't slip once, I seem to have become very good at hiding my feelings.    

I am glad you have made your decision, I hope you do get your head around it totally by the time a donor becomes available, do you feel relieved now you have decided?  I am sure you will fall with DE,  and as you say it dramatically reduces the risk of miscarriage which would have been a worry for you. xx

Oh I forgot to say on my last post,  the MIL is still not speaking to us,  and the more I think about it the more angry I feel.  I can't believe that she has taken this attitude towards us when we have so much heartache going on - she should be grateful she has a son and cherish him instead of always looking for a reason to fall out with him.  I have told DP that I don't want her in this house if she rings and wants to talk, I cannot cope with her and her stupid insecurities at this moment.


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## fififi

lesley - perhaps a career in acting could be on the cards?!!!
Sorry MIL still not realised how selfish she's being and more importantly that her current attitude has left you & DP with yet more stress  
Hope this week goes better for you now you've got "the visit" out of the way


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## Sushi Lover

Afternoon ladies,

*Ronnie*... better out than in! Good luck for your reversal op.

*Louise*... how are you feeling after the weekend hun? Any stronger? No worries re the advice. I want to give my OE one more go first too. I'm at CRM near Baker Street in London. Good for you re the holiday. I don't blame DH for being adamant. I'm craving a holiday, but our funds don't stretch to one at the moment. Hopefully soon. Where will you go?

*Jules*... how are you feeling? When's your OTD?

*Tamsin*... are you on the waiting list at the Lister at the moment?

*Roxy*... How was your weekend? How are you feeling? 6 months isn't particularly short I have to admit, but do you need to worry about the body clock when using donor eggs? I was always under the impression time was more on our side going down this route?

*Lesley*... I really am throwing EVERYTHING at this cycle! Last chance saloon with my own eggs so I don't want to look back and wonder 'what if.....' I always think a lot happens in your life as well.. as Moomin said. You've always got a story to tell about one thing or another. I won't tell you off about your bi-polar friend, but honestly Les, you are a glutton for punishment bless you! I echo Fifi's words in admiring how well you handled it though. But I can't understand why you go through such pain through gritted teeth plastering a smile on when you feel so upset hun? All those feelings you predicted did happen. If you are happier with her out of your life then you have to make a stand and gently push her away. Make excuses for not meeting up and let things drift as you've said. She'll never leave you alone if she has her way! You must think of yourself, it does you no good at all. Sorry about the news from Penny  It's not want you want to hear at all.. so donor eggs for all of us then?! Just need to convince the OHs... easy peasy lemon squeezy. p.s. MIL sounds complete cow! I'd hang up if she called. p.p.s. is Suzy wearing sunglasses in your pic? Have I missed something?!

*Fififi*.... do I really? I never knew I sounded so interesting! I always read my posts back and think how boring they are! Lesley always has amusing hedgehog, horse or dog anecdotes and stories to tell for example! I really want to try absolutely everything this time so I don't have any regrets or misgivings. Misson 'miracle baby' sounds flipping exhausting! haha. Glad you got the cyclogest script. So definitely going for DE cycle next then? Good for you hun! So pleased for you.

*AFM*....trying to get all healthy for next cycle, but craved glass of wine yesterday and felt so rubbish today wish I hadn't bothered! My dream kitchen is looking fab and I'm so pleased with it. Cannot rate Ikea and their 0% finance highly enough  Suffering with bad knee from too many years of living in heels.. went to see new physio on Friday, walked in and she's 7 months preggers... bloody brilliant. You just can't escape from it! I told her about infertility etc and didn't want treatment for knee to compromise fertility treatment from acupuncturist and she apologised for being pregnant and felt so bad bless her. I said "never apologise for being pregnant!".... hoping some baby dust will rub off onto me  I can dream.... maybe it's a sign  

xxx


----------



## Ronnie3007

Hi girls well had my op yesterday. When we went for the initial consultation they said that if we wanted the clips off and the tubes checked and repaired if necessary it would be at a diff hospital, we did not want to push it with them, our gynae had worded it for us to get it free. I think if we had said we actually wanted the bigger op it would have been up to us to pay and we have no spare cash at the moment  . So went ahead with the keyhole, we were informed that they could not take off the clips as they have fused onto the tubes and obviously do not offer the bigger op there. So I went thro all of that for nothing now!!! I have to go and see my gynae and will explain to her why we went with the keyhole and not bigger and get her to check if there would have been extra cost to us. So then I have to decide is it worth another operation?  After this one, my wounds are not sore but OMG I thought I was dying this morning, I have been suffering from extreme pains in my shoulders and under my ribs, this morning it was like muscle spasms on my right side and I was screaming out.  DH was brilliant rang the ward and rushed around getting me painkillers and a hot water bottle which thankfully worked wonders.  They have said its from my tummy being filled with the gas, feels like i have been pulled around more like.

So for now not sure what comes next if anything.  Feels like someone up above is trying to tell us we cannot have a baby of our own   My DD is disappointed and I can tell she really wants a lil baby bro or sis, well more a sis as she is surrounded by big bros lol.

If we could afford it I def would consider a DE next time.  Does anyone know whether we have a higher success rate with them?

Wishing you all a great day


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## Sushi Lover

Hi *Ronnie*,

Sorry your op didn't go as you would have hoped. The clips being fused to your tubes sounds horrendous! Has that not been painful over the years? I agree with you regarding the pain, they probably did pull and push you around a bit. When you watch operations of key-hole surgery they are pretty rough. So hopefully the bigger op will still be free then? If you can bring yourself to go through with it. Might be worth trying the donor egg option if you can get the money together. There is a massive difference in success rates for over 40's.

Here are the results from my clinic...

2009 - 2010
Age of patient 40 - 42 = 13% live birth using OE
Age of patient 43 - 44 = 6% live birth using OE

Latest figures for 2012.... age 40 - 41 pregnancy rate (means positive test) 27% and clinical pregnancy (means fetal heart detected) 18%
Age >43 pregnancy rate 10% and clinical pregnancy 4%

Live birth using donated eggs = 48% (regardless of age!) 2009 -2010. For 2011, pregnancy rate is 65%, clinical pregnancy 52% and live births 47%. In 2012 PR 62%, CP 54%... Live births not yet available.

Hope this helps!

xx


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## bernie1971

Hi to all
back after some time off the Forum... next week it's time for transfer No. 2, two frosties this time. Doing intralipids tomorrow - can anyone tell me what that's like? Any side effects?
Cheers guys

B-1971


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## Coolish

Hi *Bernie* - I had intralipids last week before ET. The only bit that's uncomfotable is when they pop the needle in. As it was the first time for me she put the drip on slower so it took a little while longer than the other lady I was chatting to in the room. It doesn't hurt at all. In my clinic they dimmed the light and put on some relaxing music for me. It was quite relaxing really. Soem people say it feels cold, but it didn't to me.


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## Louisej29

Hey all, hope you are all having a nice day in the sunshine!

what are intralipids? see a few of you have mentioned them??

Bernie. Good luck tomorrow anyway!
Kirsty. Interesting to read those stats. Im like you and giving OE one more go, also throwing everything possible at it! That said thought id thrown everything possible at this one, but maybe ill try assisted hatching next time; think thats the only thing ive not done .
Fiffi. Good luck with the DE cycle, where are you going for that?
Lesley. See you have mentioned penny at serum. Have read so many good things about her, she seems v highly regarded on FF. Hope the MIL situation improves! 

well, we had to postpone our follow up appointment yesterday as i was feeling so poorly and was in bed/on sofa all day. Have had really bad jippy tummy last few days and didnt think id make the car journey to the clinic! Think am just totally wiped out; my body has not taken the BFN well at all! My Dh is being lovely and a real sweetie but he said to me last night that i need to try and stop crying all the time now but i just cant stop myself. That said, feeling a bit better today and sat in the garden in the sunshine looking at holidays. Guess i really ought to go back to work but really dont fancy it! hehe. Maybe a few more days off! Think i deserve it!

Must tell you about the bl00dy ridiculous comment i had yesterday from a friend when i told her ivf 3 had failed. She said maybe it was time to 'give up on expensive and invasive treatments at posh hospitals'  and get back to the old fashioned way of trying and start to have sex more often.!!!! As i listened speechless she then followed it up by saying ' maybe try different positions and put your legs up against the wall after!'

WTF. How niave to this whole thing can someone be! If only it were that easy. Words fail me sometimes!! Me and Dh actually had a laugh about it last night!

anyway, back to look at holidays! Think i quite fancy a cruise....

love to you all and sorry for anyone ive not mentioned!!

xxx


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## cymbeline

Dear Louise  - I have just had to reply because that comment has made my blood boil! 

Why do people think they are entitled to tell you their ridiculous opinions? It really p xxx me off. Several people have said to me this week - well that will be your last go won't it?  - isn't that my decision to make not theirs?! Or they say "Go down Broad Street and get a Sxxx!" If only it were that easy  

As for the mum at school moaning she'd just found out she was having a 3rd boy!.......

I think you just need to cry for as long as you need to - I know it helped me and when I looked back at my posts a few months on I realised I did get a bit better ( oh dear it's all making me want to cry now! ) 

It's so horrendous this journey and no-one understands - even I don't know what it's really like, despite 3 BFNs, as I am so lucky to have my DS.
It sounds like you are being really strong and getting a plan together does help.I have just been to Penny after 3 fails elsewhere and I would certainly go back if this one doesn't work.

Take care and look after yourself


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## Louisej29

Hi Cymbeline 

Yep, sadly people think its an area they can all comment on without really having a clue. It's sooo annoying, have to try and let as much of it as possible go over your head I guess! 

The mum at school moaning about a third boy would have really upset me. ! Some people truly do not know how lucky they are. I had a mum at parents eve say to me she had made sure her daughter was planned/ born in the September as she believed children had a better advantage with a sept birthday! It wasn't long after my mc ( our baby was due aug 4th) and i could have just punched her in the face!  Schools can be the worst place to be when suffering which is why I'm still off work! 

Good luck with this cycle.  Really hope it works for you xx


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## Sushi Lover

*Louise.*... my blood is boiling too after reading that! I agree with Cymbeline... why do people hand out this useless information willy nilly (excuse the pun)?! I would have said "oh, have sex more often, thanks, hadn't thought of that"... or "thank goodness you are handing out free advice such as 'legs up the wall' and trying doggie-style when the expensive doctors haven't suggested that".... "those doctors at posh hospital really are useless" !!! Glad you and DH laughed about it. I bet you felt like punching her! Intralipids is for immune system problems like raised NK cells. Have you been tested? I'm trying the endo scratch (to aid implantation) and uterine wash (to improve lining) this time. I asked about assisted hatching, but they said it's not worth it for me as my eggs have a thin shell already. It's only for ladies who have thicker shells....ask your embryologist if they noticed that under the microscope from last time.

*Cymberline*... don't you just hate when people complain about being pregnant or having another boy or another girl? They don't know how lucky they are. A friend of mine is moaning because she is pregnant with her fourth and doesn't want another. She actually texted me to say sorry if the news upset me and then proceeded to say she was having a lot of cramping and spotting so "hopefully it would end in miscarriage" !!! What is wrong with some people? Are you having your fourth IVF attempt at Serum as we speak?

*Bernie*... my arm felt a bit cold when the liquid was going in, but I had no side-effects. Just a bit sore with the needle as Jules said. Just takes a long while and is a bit boring. I took my iPad and watched a film whilst I was having it done. Good luck with your transfer!

xx


----------



## Louisej29

Oh my god Kirsty.  I can't believe your friend said she hoped it would end in a mc.  Having a mc was the most heartbreaking and traumatic thing I have ever endured and every single day I think about the baby we lost and what should have been.  How can anyone wish a mc.  That some people have 3 or 4 and don't really want them whilst some of us would just desperately love one so upsets me. 

Someone wrote on ******** the other day ( I instantly deleted her... Old work colleague!) that she had found out she was pregnant with 4th by accident (she's 43) and they couldn't decide if it was a good or a bad shock! Just all seems so unfair ! Argh.


----------



## LellyLupin

Hi Girls - quick update.  I've just had a phone consultation with Penny, she wants me to send a period blood sample she can test for any infections.  She also wants DP to take some ABs and to do a fragmentation test, before she recommends treatment using my OE or DE.  I got an email from Katie at Serum to say I had misconstrued the email I got, they haven't ruled out OE - yet!    She thinks I have a 5% chance with OE.. Just had another heated argument with DP he just wants us to move on - more tears from me, I just wish I could flick a switch and cut off emotionally  

Kirsty - your friend is an idiot, she needs a reality check,  I bet if she did lose that baby she would be heartbroken.  What a crass stupid thing to say to you - I am so annoyed for you.    I know I should ditch my own friend, I just find it hard as I am a 'people pleaser'  or in my sisters words I am too compassionate  (aka pushover)    I would rather upset myself than someone else, stupid I know but I have always been like this.  I know I will end up going to the Christening in September  

Yes Suzy is wearing sunglasses, they are called Doggles.  Its because she has eye atrophy,  so her pupil in one eye won't close against the sun. Its very painful for her when its sunny, so the vet said she needed either a coloured contact lens putting in or sunnies.  She looks so cool but DP is embarrassed that people will think its a fashion statement  

Glad you are happy with your new kitchen - heres my kitchen story.  In our old house we were getting a new kitchen in and I couldn't make my mind up what I wanted.  I was at the stables and DP came up and said he'd ordered one all by himself,  as he was sick of me dithering.  You guessed it - hideous,  so I went and changed the order. 4 years later we moved and in the new house - you guessed it the exact same kitchen DP ordered!  6 years on I still don't like it but can't afford to change it      Trust your physio to be pregnant - do you ever wonder if its a test of endurance  

Ronnie so sorry to hear of your op debarcle.  DE should give you a much better chance, you would have the same chance as a younger person would.  Hope you feel better soon,  I bet you feel like you've been 'rummaged' in.  

Good Luck Bernie lots of   and     for a positive result xx

Louise hope you are feeling a bit better, I too have had the 'stop crying' speech off DP - I love how men think its something we can switch off.   You will stop when you are ready,  or once you are on that luxury cruise  xx    Your friend sounds as bad as Kirsty's, did she actually think you hadn't tried all that before spending a fortune, glad you could have a giggle over it and I bet DH was thinking it sounded like a bloody good idea  

Cymbeline I totally agree with you other people should just butt out, hope you are successful this time  

Cooljools when is your test date, have you got another week to go?  

Fifi MIL is still not speaking to us, shes back from Cyprus meeting the family I found for her.  Yes shes so badly done to,  I spent nearly 2 years tracing her family for her, I wish I hadn't bothered now   Hope you are ok  xxx

Hi to everyone else - I will have to sign off as I am getting 'evils' from DP for being on here again xx


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## fififi

Off to bed so no time to write properly but since I'm concerned you lot will fill another 6 pages before I can log on again thought I'd better pop by and say hi!!!!

Lots of luck to those in middle of cycle    

Some calm, "don't hit them", thoughts for those of you coming into contact with insensitive, ignorant b1tches    

And hugs for those in not good place at minute      - hope emotional and/or physical pain passes soon but for now it's totally normal to feel sh1te so ignore any not on side DP's, eat chocolate and give yourself time to recover

Best go as need sleep - DD potentially got Chicken Pox so may/may not be able to go to work tomorrow. In case I can't go I've had to spend all evening re-planning my lessons so that someone else who doesn't speak Spanish can cover for me!!! (For those who don't know I teach Spanish at a Primary School) Not sure now whether I want DD to be spotty tomorrrow or not now?!! Though having done all this extra work no doubt she'll be fine.


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## bernie1971

Thanks everyone, off in half an hour, will report on how it went. 
I agree that no one understands... and it somehow gets harder with every new attempt. It should get easier and one should get used to it, but no! 
hugs

Bernie


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## Sushi Lover

Good luck *Bernie*!

Just a quickie to everyone else.. a lady on the 40's Current Cycler's board just got a BFP with donor eggs! She's 43 and has had multiple IUI, IVF and FET transfer failures with OE. Gives us all something to mull over regarding the next steps!

She's over the moon as you can imagine... we all deserve to experience that 

xx


----------



## Louisej29

Kirsty.  Does make you think DE is the way forward doesn't it! BUT let's think positive.  We WILL get pregnant with our OE on this next cycle and have our first babies ! Lots of people at 41 still do!!!  Maybe for our second we can look at the DE route!!!


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## Sushi Lover

Hi *Louise*,

You sound much brighter today hun.. I am pleased. Time does heal and of course, the sunshine and warmth is good for the soul as well.

It's nice to have the DE as a plan B. I'm feeling positive about my next cycle so I agree... we WILL get pregnant  

Enjoy the sunbathing  I'm "well jel" haha. (I don't actually say that in real life btw... in case anyone thinks I'm a TOWIE extra!)

xx


----------



## Moominmum

Hi Ladies,

Praying extra hard for all of you in your 2ww or about to start a tx.    

Lack of personals for me - apologies. Just a quick note that I will continue to read this thread because I want to be "there" when you all get what you want and so deserve. Nothing else would make me happier!  

However, AFM I think I have arrived to the end now. Why? Well, Monday AF was 5 days late but as all the vits I've been taking have messed up my cycles I did not think much. But I POAS and voila - a BFP! However, I have been in this position enough times over the last few years to not dare to believe anything. My issue is not to get the BFP but that they don't want to stay with me.   I have not even told DH yet. I feel that the risk that it will end as before is just too great (and of course doesn't help that the clinic told me how cr*p my eggs are) and DH has a very stressful week at work so don't want to add to his stress. I suppose I can't believe it as well and just wait for the signs of an mc to start - again.  

Anyway, this means that if it ends "as usual" I will not ever be ready to try another tx, DE or OE, as I would be too heartbroken. One more mc is just about as much as I can take emotionally. And if I am lucky, well then... But right now I am so pessimistic but at least it shows that you can get a BFP with OE even when you have turned 43! 

Love to all and lots of    

Moominmum


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Moomin*.... oh wow!!! I want to get excited for you and your BFP, but I don't want to be premature with the celebrations. I pray this one stays with you and the dreaded signs you are waiting for don't happen.

 

May I ask how many times this has happened before?

As for getting a BFP with OE at 43... well, that gives me so much hope.

Take care xxx


----------



## Moominmum

Thank you *Kirsty*!   

So here is my story:
June -08: BFP => DS
May -11: BFP => mc 9 weeks
April -12: BFP => mc 5 weeks
Oct 12: BFP = mc 4/5 weeks
April -13: BFP => tbc...

So as you can see, 4 times in less than 2 years and I just can't take it anymore if it doesn't work this time. It takes too long to recover each time. I am just not a strong enough person and I need to enjoy what I do have.

The interesting bit is that they all happened at roughly the same time of the year, except for the one in Oct last year which prob was a reaction to the tx...

To know that you girls are here is such a comfort to me.


----------



## fififi

Moom - whilst can understand how nervous you are that really is fantastic news. Will be crossing fingers, toes and anything else I can that this works out for you. Every embryo is different so there's every chance that this one has perfect genetic make up    

Can't remember if you've seen anyone for recurrent MC but I was told by consultant that if I do manage to get pg that regular early scans has been shown to be beneficial. She added that medically it shouldn't make any difference but psychologically ladies have reduced stress levels and feel more positive.

Hard as it is try and get that happy head on and send those positive vibes flowing!
Huge hugs - sent from deep within cos know how excited yet scared you must be feeling


----------



## Louisej29

Moomin....  I can understand your worry and concern, but I'm keeping everything crossed this bfp sticks and stays with you! ... It's good news so far, hopefully you can feel more relaxed and celebrate soon ! I can't imagine your pain having been through 3 mcs. I have had one and that nearly destroyed me, I can well imagine it takes longer to recover each time.  Hopefully you won't need to be thinking like that though and this is your time!!! 

OE pregnancy at 43 gives me hope too!!

Keeping fingers and toes crossed for you Hun xxxx


----------



## Moominmum

Thanks girls! Reading your posts made me cry     

As I have been a fairly regular visitor to the GP and the hospital re this over the last couple of years I know I can go and have an early scan if I want to. They've told me so. I just need to get my act together but right now it all feels a bit unreal.


----------



## fififi

Moom - wish we were all geographically near each other so could pop over and give each other real hugs when needed. (Mind you since I'm at home with Chicken Pox DD I need to avoid pg ladies so couldn't come as yet anyway ... so I'd still be useless!!! Nice to know there's someone I genuinely need to avoid though  )

Re getting a scan have a think and see what you think might help you best. Guess it's mixed choice at this point, especially since you've not shared with DH yet. I think you'll feel better once had chat with DH and then can decide how soon you want to go for scan.

After age 38 women usually don't ovulate every month - one consultant suggested to me that most likely to be every 3/4 months. That would tie in with the BFPs you've got all being similar times of year. However, as I said earlier every embryo is different and plenty of people do get a natural BFP that does go all the way despite egg quality in general being reduced.
My consultant has not suggested stopping with using my OE and he has even said to me it's just a question of the "right embryo". I've decided to go with DE for our last cycle but am wishing like mad that I get natural BFP - and consultant in last review letter even ended saying "I wish you luck trying naturally" ... he wouldn't have said that if he thought all BFPs in a 43 year old were doomed, knowing my recurrent MC history.

Positive thoughts hun ... and perhaps a bit of chocolate to soothe those nerves


----------



## Sushi Lover

Extract from today's Daily Mail online.... worth a read!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2311053/Why-EVERYONE-pregnant-youre-35-desperate-conceive-ASHLEY-PEARSON-pain-wanting-baby.html



xx

/links


----------



## LellyLupin

Moomin congratulations  honey!! , I know you are saying its too early to get excited but       I can't help but be excited for you.  I am praying hard that you keep this little one.       You have given us the hope that it can happen,  and I know that you are being very cautious as you have been here before, but I do hope you allow youself a little celebration as it is fantastic news   xxxx        

Kirsty just read your link, the poor love we could all identify with her couldn't we.


----------



## bernie1971

Back for a quickie. Congratulations Moomin! Hope it does stick! I must admit the news made my day, thanks.

A report on the intrallipids. The thing itself went fine, no discomfort, no pain, no nothing, and it took 2 hours, which went a lot quicker than I thought because I was expecting it to take around 3 hours!
Anyway, afterwards I didn't feel too wonderful though. I felt kind of weirdly full - and haven't been properly hungry since before the treatment on Wednesday even though I have been eating normal amounts and exercise as normal. Maybe it is psychological? Anyway, nothing to worry about, just wanted to share in case anyone else has the same "aftereffect". Apparently it's normal (I asked the nurses afterwards).

Needless to say if it leads to a BFP AT LAST then I would highly recommend that everyone has the intrallipids thing done... 

Having FET on Monday. I am trying to be optimistic about it all, and struggling somewhat. At least the lining was better this time - 10 mm instead of 9,4 mm last time. 

xxx


----------



## hopeful68

Not going to do many personals - too much to catch up on...
fingers crossed for you moonim. I have gone through 2 MC (that I know of) and can't face another. am now actually scared of getting PG as I know what will happen.......

AFM - I am currently supposed to be in France on holiday with DH. however my dog took ill and my dad couldn't cope so I am a home with a dog who cant walk due to an inner ear infection  and DH is in France!!!!!! and what time of the cycle is it.... only the best time to try!! OH not this month I guess.  Sorry feeling a bit down at the mo, actually took the dog to the vet thinking he had had a stroke and was going to be put down. glad it isn't that but god I need a holiday and some time with DH but he cant switch off at home and really needs to distress! and it is DH's birthday so he will celebrate alone!!

sorry to 'rant'. 

I REALLY do hope every one else is well physically, emotionally and mentally. I also hope you all plan to do something nice this weekend.....


----------



## artist_mum

*moominum* lovely to read about your natural pregnancy. I really do  for you on this one. Do take it easy won't you?! Put your feet up a bit and relax when you can. Just wishing you so much luck with this little one. All the best Roxy xx


----------



## LellyLupin

Hi Ella hows the hossie?

Hopeful    poor you and poor pooch, I am glad you still have him, but you must be so miserable not to be in France.  Sending you a big chin up    Hope the pooch improves now they know whats wrong xx

Good luck for Monday Bernie xx


----------



## jane66

Congratulations Moomin on your Natural pregnancy, its wonderful, all it takes is one good egg so hopefully you've found it.

Good luck Bernie for tomorrow ! I hope the spring weather will bring you the FET that finds its nest in you. 

Roxy, My tomato plants are growing, ready to be repotted ! (probably a three week transfer !!) my plan is to grow super vitamin plants to detox and give me something else to think about... I hope you are beginning to feel more positive, and find time for yourself. 

I am pleased with myself, AF came bang on time after all the medication I've had pumped into me I was worried it might take a while to settle. So hopefully I'm back to normal, three months to get as healthy as possible before we start new batch of hormones...
bye all
Jane


----------



## artist_mum

hi

*Jane*
good to hear about the tomatoes and your very well behaved AF!! I have got back into things OK thanks, am having a chat with Penny at Serum this week, spoke with Eugin last week - then decision time and get on with another go. We are quite determined! I am on a pea theme so far: sweet peas and peas - inspired by your green fingered health plan 

*lesley* keep meaning to say, I love suzy's shades!! Medical reasons I know, but they do look very stylish  and I just know my dog will want a pair if she see's Suzy in her's haha! Dogs, they are really the best 

*hopeful* hope the weekend passed quickly and happily for you in the end and that your pooch is doing OK.

*bernie* good luck today...

*fififi* hi, long time no catch up! hope you are doing OK. I think you asked a while back about DE not needing a rush and giving us more time which is of course true but I am heading towards 50 which gives a bit of a hurry in itself!

hi to everyone else, have a good week
Roxy x


----------



## Moominmum

Hi Peeps and thanks for all the well-wishes! 

*Bernie*: hope all is going well today! Then it is "just" the 2ww. Exciting!  

*Hopeful*: so sorry to hear about your cancelled hols and not feeling great. I hope that the weekend was okay and that you are feeling better today.

*Roxy*: how exciting to have a planned call with Penny. Decision time soon then! 

*Lesley*: forgot to say earlier that you were "naughty" to see you friend but I am very impressed and think that you did brilliantly. You are so strong! 

*Fififi*: Hope DD's chicken pox has settled and that you are going well. 

*Jane*: it is always a worry to see how the AF is affected due to drugs etc so I am glad to hear that yours was on time. 

*Louise*,* Ella*, *Kirsty* and everyone else - hello!  

 to all


----------



## bernie1971

Hello to all!
Thanks for all the good wishes! 
Well, had the embryo transfer this morning... it was supposed to be 2 frosties, but then they decided to only transfer one because of my cervical issues. Boohoo. Am a bit disappointed. They gave me a success rate of 25-30%. Was expecting better figures... oh well. Will try to stay positive but as y'all know, sometimes it's hard. They said the one frostie that was transferred looked excellent. That at least!

Updates to follow... it is highly likely that I'll be spending a lot of time on FF until test day, which is 8 May...
Hugs!

Bernie


----------



## Sushi Lover

Congrats on being PUPO *Bernie*! Best of luck for the 2WW.

xxx


----------



## Coolish

Bernie - congratualtions on being PUPO. Lots of PMA and relaxation and no Googling for the next 2 weeks!


----------



## Moominmum

Congrats on being PUPO Bernie!


----------



## LellyLupin

Oh for Bobs sake I 've just lost a huge post  

Anyway here goes again.

Bernie congrats on being PUPO honey,  hope your little frostie digs in deep       

Hi Roxy I just had a call with Penny last week, I would be really interested in what she says to you.   I have to send her some blood from my next AF and shes going to decide what to do from there.  Glad you are not giving up - you go girl!!  Suzys shades    she looks so cool, I was so tempted to buy the pink ones but DP refused to take her for a walk in them,  Shes full of it tonight racing up and down the living room, she absolutely full of bounce.  Dogs just rock I love her to bits.  Hopeful hope your pooch is recovering well. xx  

Moomin hope you are feeling a bit more positive, I am still very excited for you   I think its fabulous news  .  Do you really think I am strong seeing my friend?  Honestly as soon as she walked in I wanted her to go.  I must admit that her baby is a cutie, I felt like running away with him.  Her having a baby seems to get under my skin so I am distancing myself as much as I can from now on.

A few updates on other things:

Mike has had his ears pierced and is now having couselling sessions.  A few weeks ago he came to work as half Mike and half Shelly   he said he couldn't make his mind up who to be when he woke up so he came as both.  I had to have words though as he committed the cardinal sin of wearing a black bra under a white shirt, I told him he would have to get his act together  

I still have my two hedgies, every time I think of letting them go the weather gets cold again.  I have stopped feeding the mouse now though    I found her nest,  but have just left it as I haven't the heart to destroy it, I guess after having my own fertility issues I feel that she should be allowed to be a mum, DP won't be happy when we are over run  

My MIL is still not speaking to me and DP, I can't believe shes using our fertility journey as a reason to fall out with us.  She should thank her lucky stars shes got a son to fall out with the selfish cow.  Honestly some people beggar belief. 

On the Mum front we finally have a diagnosis, we went to see a lung specialist who told us she has bronciecstasis.  She has to have a special CAT scan and have her immunes tested.  He was very interested in her curved fingernails and said they could be a result of an immune issue, I hope not as I have curved nails too!

Hi to Feefs, Kirsty Ella, Louise and anyone else I have missed, hope you are all ok    My second cousin in America has just called her new baby Fiona Claire,  I love it, it makes a change from all the Skylers, Kadences and Chrystals, I love 'proper' names.  My second cousin over here has just called her baby Heidi Luna-Poppy, good grief poor kid.


----------



## fififi

Hi all ...

Wow lots of new posts since I last popped by & I'm sure it wasn't that long ago!!!!

Will start out with AFM since had few consultations etc recently:
- Have made decision to go with DE IVF, wait list at my clinic 3-6 months depending on closeness of match required and mostly all altruistic donors with proven fertility (clinic has about 45% success with DE IVF, then MC risk about 15% ... basically the opposite of my odds with OE)
Feel quite sad still that I'm "giving up" on my own eggs and that lots of the "me bits" I see in my DD won't be there in any future baby should we get that far. However life just doesn't seem to want to give us our OE baby so this seems like a good shot at trying to achieve our dreams. So now wishing, wishing, wishing that we get natural miracle in next few months. But if that doesn't happen then should be having DE IVF in the summer.

- Trying to up natural chances by continuing with multitude of vitamins, supplements including DHEA etc. Also using CBFM to monitor cycles bit better - managed to get peak reading last month so now know it does work even when taking DHEA. Discovered that private prescriptions are valid for 12 months so managed to get cyclogest to take for 3 cycles of trying to boost post-ovulation progesterone. Was suggested this protocol by fertility specialist when had NK cells tested - take 7 days of cyclogest from 7 days after ovulation (eg. days 21-2. Also considering getting a fertility lube like "conceive plus". Anyone had any experience of this?  ?

- Discovered today that the crazy ranges in my FSH levels are not so abnormal but related to whether I ovulated the previous month or not. In March I was told by GP that my hormone levels had come back showing I was close to menopausal ranges (FSH 25, oestrogen <70) but next month they'd returned to more normal ranges (FSH 12, oestrogen 130). Basically body compensates for lack of ovulation (so low levels of oestrogen flowing) by sending hormone messages to up the FSH production.
Having spoken with nutritionist at Zita West clinic I also now ensure I'm having 2/3 tablespoons of ground flaxseed daily to help balance my hormone levels. (She's also recommended vitamin B6 to help with increasing natural progesterone levels - 50mg daily, upping to 100mg following ovulation.)

- Useful information re embryo glue for anyone considering it. Study by my clinic has shown it's beneficial for IVF in ladies over 34 but it hasn't been shown to add any benefits before that age so not usually recommended for DE IVF. http://www.nurture.ac.uk/news/embryoglue-improves-pregnancy-rates-by-19

- Am now clinic and specialist exhausted so relying now on magic and destiny. Though that said am still thinking about whether I should have hidden-c test. Lesley - what price have you been quoted by serum for the tests? Also do you have any idea of postage costs & timings? (I know there's lots about it on agates pages but wondered what current info is.)

Sure there was something else to share with you all but no idea what now!!!

Having put all my blurb I've just realised it's late and I need to go to bed as have early start tomorrow. So now going to be really rude and not write personals, sorry!!!! Hugs to all and I'll come back as soon as I can and be a better "friend"    

PS. AJW - think you were expecting to get the results of your biopsies today. Thinking of you and really hoping that it's good news     

/links


----------



## Coolish

*fififi *- the prices in Agate's FAQ were correct the last time I looked. If you contact Serum reception about the test they send you a Word doc with what you need to do and the prices. It's 100 euros for just the hidden c test ot 170 euros for the 7-in-1 test. I did the 7-in-1 test and came back positive for ureaplasma too. I send mine off on standard postage to Greece (a lot cheaper thana courier) and it took about 6 days to get there and they got back to me just a few days later with the result. Then Penny contacted me with a programme for the ABs. You can either get a private prescription from Serum or go to your docs for an NHS prescription. My advice would be to not mention 'hidden c' but just say you have tested positive for chlamydia and your clinic has recommended this protocol. My doc wrote prescription for me and the OH straight away. I noticed a big difference in my AF after taking the ABS.

*Roxy* - good luck with your chat with Penny this week. She's lovely. She highlighted things for me within the first 5 mins of chatting.

AFM - it was my OTD yesterday and I did a POAS before going to the docs as I was 14dp5dt and got a positive. Never ever seen one of those before... Just got the results of my HCG back and it's 603.


----------



## fififi

WOW, WOW, WOW - Cool Jules - how exciting!!!!! Another BFP .... congratulations      
So pleased for you

Glad this thread is finally got some good news posted - here's hoping that 2013 continues to bring good news     


PS. Thanks for info re testing. Won't be able to use chlamydia argument sadly as only recently had standard test repeated via GP, but hopefully it won't be needed anyway should I decide to have that test too.


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Jules*,

Absolutely amazing, wonderful, incredible news! I'm so pleased for you.

DE seem to be the way forward ladies!!

xxx


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

Hi sorry to steal this thread just wanted some advice. I have just found out I am not pregant from my 1st icsi with doner sperm 6 eggs fertilised but no  frosties. I just wondered when I should cycle next whether to wait and lose a few lbs as I feel bloated.

It is a struggle money wise but because I am already 43 I know time is against me. Any advice is it beneficial to wait or keep going x


----------



## Sushi Lover

*CHOCOCHINE*...Sorry to hear your news, but you are welcome to join us. Goes without saying. My consultant always recommends 3 AFs after a failed attempt (2 at the absolute least)... this gives the body time to recover physically and mentally. Plus sort your finances out a bit! I understand time is against you as you are 43....but I would recommend waiting as it's a false ideology to throw yourself back into another natural cycle quite so soon after the last. I attempted to do just that last year and as a result had a poor response producing few eggs, many of which were immature. I see you got lots of eggs last time, so wait until your ovaries are recovered before going again, otherwise you run the risk of getting a lot fewer and wasting your money. Can I ask, have you thought about donor eggs? The success rates are a lot higher for our age group. In May it will be my 4th and final go with my OE before moving onto DE.

*Lesley*.... sorry about your Mum and the bronciescstasis diagnosis... I haven't' heard of it, but it sounds unpleasant. Is it an inflammation of the bronchial tubes? How weird about the curved finger nails being linked to poor immune system. Have you had your immunes checked out? What is going with Mike?! Talk about not knowing which way he wants to go. I'm with you on traditional names. I mean, Gwyneth Paltrow names her kids after fruit right? Totally bonkers and really annoys me!!

*Fififi*.....that's great about your decision with DE honey! 3-6 months is no time at all. Wouldn't it be super for some of us to get BFPs by Christmas?! I'd love that. Do not think there will not be any "me bits" in your future baby Fi... remember nurture plays a huge part in bringing up a child. He or she may not have your genes, but what's to say they won't take on your characteristics and mannerisms? Try not to look at is as 'giving up'... more 'moving onto the next step'. That's what I keep saying to myself anyway! You are doing the next best thing in achieving your dream of being a mother for a second time. Isn't it great when you see that picture of the egg on the CBFM!! Makes you realise your body is still working as is should and therefore, there is always a chance of natural conception. Interesting about your hormone levels... glad you've got to the bottom of it. With the hidden C... why is it only clinics abroad (especially Serum) suggest this and not ones in the UK? Do they think it's mumbo jumbo? I spoke to a nurse at Barts yesterday as I need some blood tests for my next cycle and she said the swab test is enough to detect chlamydia... taking a sample from AF blood won't show anything more than a vaginal swab will. So I'm confused? Either you have or you don't in her opinion. Odd one.

*Hopeful*... how are you? Sorry you've had a tough time with your doggie and missing out on your holiday. I hope you get a break soon.

*Roxy*... how are you feeling now lovie? Bit stronger?  Glad that determined lady is still in there and raring to go again! Let us know what Penny says.

*Louise*... how are you hun? Feeling a bit better now? Thinking of you.

Hello* Moomin, Ella, Jane, Jules, Bernie, Refresh*

*AFM*.... endometrial scratch booked for the 10th of May... will have AFC at the same time, AF expected that weekend so will start my injections... hopefully looking at EC end of May (praying all is well and no cysts have appeared) xxx


----------



## artist_mum

hi just a quickie...

*cooljules* I'm just so pleased for you! Have been waiting to see how you got on, was pleased when I saw your POAS result on the other string but it's fantastic to hear your hcg level! I hope things go from strength to strength for you (and your DH too). Fab news 

*kirsty* I think I forgot to post to you the other time.. I always come on for a quick check and then just want to say a quick something.. next thing I want to write to everyone! Good to see your dates are coming up closer now. Thanks, yeah, I'm getting back on track. Got my degree to finish (5th June is hand in) and just want to get going again soon as we can. My lovely OH persuades me to take it steady, make decisions as they come up so will weigh things up this next few weeks and see. Lovely to see Jules' results. Looking forward to seeing yours next 

sorry to read your news *Chocochine* - I have only done Donor Eggs so don't know what's best on timing, but do give yourself time to adjust and be emotionally AND physically prepared for another. THis is a good string for considering all the options.

hi to everyone else & congrats to Bernie on being PUPO 

Roxy xx


----------



## artist_mum

*kirsty* by the way, on the hidden C, I asked Eugin clinic about these kind of tests and they say that a hysteroscopy will pick up whether these bacteria have affected the endometrium and so there is no point testing for their presence - but rather test to see if they have affected you. I'm not so sure about this, but that is there view point. They have now recommended I have a hysteroscopy. I'm chatting with Penny as you know tomorrow evening and want to hear her point of view. It does seem strange not to test if it is this simple a test to do.... xx


----------



## Coolish

Hey *Kirsty* - thanks for your good wishes! Sorry to bang on about hidden c but my Spanish clinic did a hysto for me last year and said there were no problems, but I did indeed test positive when I did the hidden c test late that year. When I had my Greek hysto (via Serum) and saw the DVD I could see the 'dead' lining before they removed it. That's caused by the infection. Like Penny said, nothing could implant there. If you look in my sig, I had 4 DE cycles at my Spanish clinic and 2 attempts at implantation - poor little things didn't stand a chance! If you're thinking about a hysto, look on the board for Greek hysto and see how different this one is. Penny will explain it all


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

Thanks kirsty and artist roxy x


----------



## fififi

Mega busy evening as seriously behind with planning lessons for work tomorrow due to going to clinic yesterday when normally do my school work!!! Unable to write personals but very appreciative of everyones comments / hellos.

Funny story to amuse you all: Whilst at local leisure centre lady came up to me promoting their outdoor activities. I need to lose weight and start exercising again after too much comfort eating so thought it could be worth a try so I asked what they had available at times I could go. The lady offered me "Boot Camp" to which I explained I wasn't really up to that sort of exercise!!! (Could she not see the biscuit bottom I currently have!!!) She then said "I'm afraid the only other activity we have at that time is buggy babies which I guess isn't what you'd be looking for." My initial internal response was "if only" but then heard my DD saying out loud very adamently "you can go to that, you can take my baby!". I smiled at lady and walked off with DD highly confused as to why I still hadn't signed up for the free class!!!   )


----------



## LellyLupin

No time to do any personals as its so late,  but just wanted to say welcome to Chocochine and                    to Cooljules congratulations I am so happy that you got the best news ever.  Looks like this thread is finally getting some good news and about time too!!!

Will post personals tomorrow as I see its gotten really busy on here.  Night night girls


----------



## LellyLupin

Hmm not a nice day for me today,  I went with Mum to the doctors to hear what her immune testing showed.  All ok,  but I did learn that bronciecstasis leads to a much shorter life.   Mum has to now go for a CAT scan to show the extent of the damage in her lungs.  Kirsty the disease is basically your airways become thickened  caused by some sort of infection like pneumonia, this leads to fluid build up which then gets infected causing cavities in your lungs, the more infections you get the more cavities form,  the less lung you have to breathe with. It can lead to total respitory failure, feeling really upset now and know I won't sleep tonight.  I am glad I went with her but I am shocked by what I learnt, I really didn't think it was so serious.  The curved nails are part of the condition and its a bit like having cystic fibrosis.  I feel really shellshocked, the thought of losing my mum fills me with absolute fear.  Sorry for the sad post girls, hope you are all ok xxx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hi ladies,

Firstly,* Lesley*... so sorry to hear you had an awful day yesterday. It's so hard seeing our parents getting older and more poorly as the years go by. We think they will be around forever. No wonder you are in shock. I pray they can help your Mum in some way and she'll be around for a lot longer. Positive story from Ella said about her MIL having one lung and doing so much still. Medical science really has come on such a long way. Thinking of you. 

*Ella*.... I think we've all been through stages of emotional meltdown whilst TTC. Infertility is an incredibly tough pill to swallow and leaves lots of ladies very depressed. Hopefully you are just having a 'down-day' and will stronger again soon and ready to take the bull by the horns and move onto the steps in your 'project baby' schedule! Reading about the BFPs is inspiring I agree. It's given me renewed hope to carry on and achieve my dream that's for sure.

*fififi*... ahh, bless your DD and offering you her dolly! Kids do come out with funny and sweet things at times. I bet you don't have a biscuit bottom.. I reckon it's more of a ryvita bottom!!

*Roxy*.... how could you forget me?! Poor me  I feel all unloved. haha. Best of luck getting your degree finished... how rewarding that must be for you. You can get going again after that I suppose? Yes, Jules' result is fabulous. I'm still at a disadvantage using my OE though... we'll see. I may still find that elusive good egg. Interesting about the hidden C test, I see what you mean about testing for the presence and that not proving or disproving whether your endometrium has been affected or not. I wonder if one can presume that if the screening shows a negative result that means you've never had it and therefore won't be experiencing any ill effects? Or you still could have had it, but not anymore?

*Jules*.... do you know if UK clinics test for hidden C? None of my consultants have ever mentioned it. How interesting about the Spanish clinic saying there were no problems and yet Penny found all that dead matter in your lining. Really fortunate Serum found out the problem....it certainly did the trick! I'll have a read about Greek hysto then. I've mentioned a hysto to various doctors in the past couple of years and they all say it's not worth it as can see from various scans that my endometrium is fine. I'm starting to think I may need a more intensive investigation.....

*Moomin*... how are things? Thinking of you.

xxx


----------



## Coolish

Hi *Kirsty* - Dr Gorgy in London does it I believe - http://www.fertility-academy.co.uk/recurrent-failure/infection-screening/ - it might be worth checking out his clinic on FF as I believe he does all the immunes tests etc. I would imagine it's cheaper to send off the sample to Athens though - 100 euros for the simple test is a real drop in the ocean for what we are all paying for treatment. It's really easy to do it - you can pick up a sample bottle from your GP or buy one in Boots for a quid. The Word doc gives suggestions on how to collect the sample (I know, I know, it's a bit TMI). I think it cost me about a fiver to send to through Post Office small packages. If you test positive for infection then there's likely to be damage to the lining - bits where this is little or no blood supply. We got our AB on an NHS prescription too. If you test negative then at least it's something crossed off the list and it's only cost 100 euros 

I was debating having it done after my 3rd failed DEIVF last yest and didn't as it seemed a bit of a faff and my Spanish clinic poo-pooed it. Hindsight eh? 

If you're having a chat with Penny, she will be able to chat through what she thinks might be causing issues.

/links


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hi *Jules*,

Thanks for the link. What you are saying does makes sense... for such a small price to pay in comparison to all the costly treatment I could send a sample to Serum. I will definitely look into it. Can I easily find the word document on the Serum website? I'm still a bit confused on whether being tested via a vaginal swab is any different from an AF sample? Do you think I could be negative via the swab, but still show signs of infection with the AF sample version?

I will definitely learn from your hindsight and look into it. Thanks for the tip.

It's not me having the chat with Penny, but Roxy. I'm under CRM in London.

xxx


----------



## Coolish

Oops sorry *Kirsty*, I'm getting confused as to who is with what clinic today! I tested negative with the swab test but positive on the PCR (hidden c) test. It's not just sexually transmitted, which is the common belief. It can even be passed to a child by the mother during birth. There's quite a big thread on it here - http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=213413.0

When I did mine, I used the contact form on the Serum site and said I wanted to do the test and they mailed me back with the info - here's the contact us page - http://www.serum-ivf.com/contact - you don't have to cycle with the clinic or anything.

You can also go directly to Locus Medicus (who I think do the testing for Serum) - there's also some extra info here - http://www.locus-medicus.gr/index.php/en/hiddenc-en

/links


----------



## hopeful68

Lesley, sorry to hear about you mum. as a paramedic I see many people with similar respiratory diseases, none cure-able but all 'manageable'. the MOST important thing is your mum does not act brave if she feels a cold coming on and alerts her GP. she may get early antibiotics and steroids to ward off chest infections quickly or help the lungs manage them better. with out sounding too morbid, but trying to put some thing in to perspective - she may have the lung disease but it might not actually cause her death so don't focus on it too much or the disease controls you too. what this does give you is a good chance to make sure you maximise your time and make it quality time. not everyone gets a warning!

Kirsty, thanks for asking about the dog. much improved (again). still not keen to put his head down an eat so if fed on his bed - I guess the room spin kicks in with the head down! REALLY need a holiday now though. 

DH home tomorrow night - hopefully with a boot full of booze - I need it after this week!  we are both a bit fed up at the moment, I would be about ready to drop if I had carried the BFP through so all the what if's are rearing their heads.  DH is feeling down and unhappy with things generally including work so I will try and have a good chat this weekend. i think this forum has helped me come to terms with things better than him - I don't think he has anyone to talk to about this other than me and we go round in circles and have run out of new incites to 'move on' out of the rut.

welcome to the new peeps. hopefully you will find answers to your questions and all the moral support you need on here. the other ladies are such a mine of information - who needs google!!

better go and ** chat with DH.... catch up again soon-ish!! have a good w/end if you are off (and hope the bank holiday weather holds!)


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## Louisej29

Hey ladies

How are you all?  Lots of pages to catch up on. 

Lesley, really sorry to hear about your mum and hope you are ok

Hopeful.  It's so hard thinking about what stage of pregnancy you would have been at, and with your due date approaching it mus be so hard.  I torment myself all the time with what stage I'd be at now and how big I'd be.  It's so hard.  So hopefully he will have that boot full of booze !! 

Cool jules. Firstly fab news!!!! Yay... Congrats!! 

That test definitely sounds like it's worth doing. My consultant doesn't believe in it!  But have read too many stories on here that I'm now starting to think its worth a shot! 

Kirsty. Don't think uk clinics do it!  How are you feeling about your cycle? Keeping everything crossed that we both get our baby on round 4 with OE! Good luck with the scratch.  I had that done too. Wasn't too bad, not much worse than a smear.... 

Fiffi.  Hope you're doing ok.  Your dd sounds sweet!!  

Well. Think we are going to wait until August to cycle again even though I was told I can go straight away with next af.  Don't feel ready yet to go through it all again so having a few months.  Though panicking about eggs decreasing each month!  I am also going for a hysteroscopy..... Has anyone had one of these?    Although everything seems fine they want to check there are no polyps? Or anything left over from Erpc which may have stopped implantation.  He thinks not but will rule it out.  
The saga goes on!!!

Chocochine..have you decided to wait or go ahead.  My clinic let you proceed straight away with next af although I know a few make you wait a few months.  I have always jumped straight back into it but this time am taking a few months to let my body (and mind!) recover.  Good luck!! 

Love to anyone I've not mentioned.  Xxx


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## Louisej29

Oh meant to ask as well have any of you had reflexology for fertility issues? Does it help at all I've had acupuncture, now wondering whether to start reflexology as well!?!


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## Sushi Lover

*Jules*... that's so interesting you tested negative with the swab test, but positive for hidden C. It could be the same for me then? I've sent Serum an email asking for info and instructions. Thank you!
*
Hopeful*.... ahh, bless your doggie getting a spinning head putting his head down to eat! I vaguely remember that feeling after a bucketful of sauvignon blanc! Enjoy the french booze... I hope DH has brought back bubbly too.. that's always lovely to drink the sunshine 

*Louise*... yes, it seems UK clinics aren't that open to the idea. I've sent Serum a contact form asking for info... something else to rule out. Glad to hear the scratch wasn't that bad for you. Some girls have said the pain was almost unbearable?! I have reflexology every now and again... she tailors my appt to the infertility issues depending on what time of month it is... for example, stimulating the 'ovary and uterus area' at ovulation time. It is soooo relaxing and I really love it. Not sure it really adds any value fertility wise, but anything that de-stresses and relaxing has to aid in some respect! 4th time lucky Lou... I'm pleased you are having a nice rest until next cycle, through experience it will mean your ovaries have time to revive themselves again resulting in more eggs! Another 3mths won't have any detrimental effects.

*All you lovely ladies out there.... get those bikinis on at the weekend and plonk yourself on a sunbed in the garden with a trashy magazine and an ice lolly! The sunshine works wonders for the soul and gets those pheromones working overtime *

xx


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## LellyLupin

Hello girls  

Feeling a bit more positive after my mini breakdown about Mum.  Thanks for your kind words Ella, Kirsty and Hopeful and Louise.   Actually Hopeful you put things into perspective for me, you are right this might not be the end of her, and I will do everything in my power to help her manage the situation.  I have already warned my siblings NOT to go to mums when they have a cold,  and I am going to have a talk to Dad tomorrow to tell him he must make sure that at the first signs Mum gets a sample in to the doctor.  Kirsty you are right its the shock of realising that they don't go on forever, I know its the natural order of things but it still comes as a shock.  Ella thanks for thinking of me when you are so down yourself, I hope you are feeling a bit happier now xx  Hopeful I love how no nonsense you are, being a proper panicker I needed your insight and you have helped me get a grip thank you.  Sorry you and DH are feeling so down at the moment  , I am glad your little dog is feeling a bit better, poor old soul, its horrible to feel dizzy all the time.  Except for dizzy with French plonk of course    Lou I think you are right to wait a little bit before your next tx, give yourself time to re-group as Kirsty would say xx

Jules/Kirst I am having the hidden c test and the 7 in 1 test that Penny recommended too, she said that the swab test doesn't find the hidden c higher up in the uterus.  Kirsty glad you are going to get it done,  it might put your mind at rest.  You can just put a sample in the post as Jules said.  Took the day off in the hope of a bit of sun and relaxation, bloody freezing   so stuffing face with toffee popcorn on the sofa instead  

Ella when will you find out if your mare is in foal?  Going out with Toby's new part owner on Sunday.  I can either ride Tobes or the 17HH hunter instead. Feeling very nervous either way, although Toby is now out in the field so his gymnastics should have ceased.  I am tempted to ride the new one but he looks humongous to me, I can hardly reach to get his head collar on.  

Jules and Moomin hope you pregnant ladies are feeling ok and your other halves are spoiling you rotten xx

Ending on a happy note I set my sumo hedgehog (Sonic)  free today so I have posted a pic for you, must admit I miss her already, it was lovely to see her toddle off, I hope she has a good life and stays away from the roads.  Poor Mario didn't make it I am afraid.  

Hi to Roxy, Feefs, Choco and anyone else I have missed xxx


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## artist_mum

hi
gosh this is such a busy thread - hard to keep track of you all!

Just a quick couple of messages to *Lesley* - sorry to hear about your mum but good that you have got your head around it a bit. It's hard I know. Was pleased to read about Sonic! And *Kirsty* - I totally love your advice in bold on your message - received loud and clear, I really need to relax and sometimes it does help to be told! Good that you are doing the test with Serum - it does seem worth the effort and not too expensive for once with an IVF related test!

Sorry not to mention everyone else by name, I've had a really long week and the skids are here tomorrow for the bank hols so just trying to make the most of my evening and not be too long on the computer. But wishing you all a lovely sunny bank holiday weekend 

AFM Had a chat with Penny on Wednesday this week:

Firstly she is very kind and easy to talk to and it was good to hear her view on things. We had assumed everything OK with DP sperm as Eugin (spanish clinic) were fine with it & he has 2 kids! But Penny wants him to take doxycycline (AB) for 40 days in case he has any bugs/bacteria which could be affecting motility. She said this could affect the chromosomality of the embryo making it non viable and we should not risk this. She also wants me to do the 7 in 1 test & take AB if necessary. Then both of us go over there (maybe June/July) - do hysto and possibly laparoscopy on me plus aqua scan to verify the fibroids i have are not a problem. I asked her on immunes and she says yes, I would have the whole 9 yards  (meaning intralipids, steroids, clexane etc). This is probably due to my history of M.E.

It's funny because i did think of Serum when I first came on FF a year ago, but we had already signed up with Eugin and I do really like them but just feel that we don't have the time to keep going there without full investigation due to my age. They have recommended a hysto but that's all - and I'm not sure that is enough. Penny's approach seems to be a specific protocol geared to the individual not a general one and I think at this stage that's what we need. So yeah, we will go with it. Thanks to *cooljules* for your inspiration (and thinking of you, hope all is well)

Happy weekend FFers!  to everyone

Roxy xx


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## Coolish

*Roxy* - so, so pleased you had a good chat with Penny. She will look at you and DH in a more personal and individual way. Honestly Serum, and Penny are like a breathe of fresh air. When you go over there you'll see what I mean. My ET last month was the most relaxed and unclinical I've ever had. If you want anymore info just PM me, plus there are some really good Serum threads on here xx


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## deblovescats

hi guys
i've been lurking on this thread for a few weeks - not been posting for a while - just needed to take stock of my thoughts and see where I'm going, but needed to see how all you guys are doing? 
Congrats on your news jules! Hi to lesley
Had a great trip to Capetown - brilliant things to see, gorgeous warm weather and chilling in an apartment on the beach - just what I needed. Now back to earth with a bang! 
I'm still unsure about what direction I'm taking. Still mulling over Serum, but also been for a free appointment with Specialist Donor Nurse at Care in Sheffield. She was really nice and clued up on everything. I've booked an initial appointment with consultant, counsellor and the donor nurse, all in one day, which means I can cover all my options. Being able to access the clinic in the same day was a welcome relief, but I know there's more to it than that. They also don't have a waiting list for donor eggs, there is a shortage of egg recipients. I want to see what the consultant says about whether there is a septum (?) in my uterus and what he thinks about it. If he says there is, I can either go to serum or my GP said she will fast track me for hysteroscopy on the NHS - and the thought of saving some money is a great weight of my mind. As I'm single and going it alone, the cost is a real concern, even though my sister has said she'll help out! Also with the Euro/pound exchange rate at the moment, it means that treatment abroad isn't such a cheap option especially factoring in flights and hotels. However, there are benefits to that too. I have an appointment at Care on 30th May, then I'll decide what to do. All I know is that I am going to go ahead, and I'm ready to try again! 
Good luck to all you guys and I'll be posting more regularly now hopefully
Deb


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## LellyLupin

Hey Debs welcome back! We were all wondering where you had gone.  Glad to hear you had such a good holiday and that you have made inroads to try again xxx

AFM my 'friend' with the new baby is driving me mad posting baby pics on my ******** page, wish she would go away  

Roxy Penny gave me good advice too, she seems to be much more positive than the English clinics. xx


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## deblovescats

thanks for the greeting lesley - i've been keeping an eye on all you guys! 
went out today for a drive - took my mother and aunt - drove to Sandsend near Whitby, then round by Goathland to Pickering and Thornton le Dale - had a home made icecream in the village! 
feeling more positive about the way forward, going to decide which direction to go after my appointment
Deb


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## Coolish

Hey *Debs* - good to hear from you! Thanks for the good wishes. You're sounding quite refreshed and ready to go after your holiday. It sounds like you've got a couple of options up your sleeve, which is always a good place to be in.

Hopw everyone is enjoyign a (partially) sunny bank holiday.


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## LellyLupin

Just a bit further Debs and you could have popped round for a cup of tea.   I wish we were all closer I would love to meet you all, its so good to be able to chat with people who understand,  instead of people who just look at you blankly with no comprehension of what infertility does to a person.  

Having a fab horsey day in the sun Jools, nothing like a gallop across the countryside in blazing sunshine, it really lifts the old spirits.    Hope you are feeling ok, any symptoms showing?  

Ella Tobes was a star today he was cream crackered by the time we got home, his new part owner has told me that she now regrets her decision and wants out - they don't last long do they


----------



## Ronnie3007

*Jules* Congratulations on your BFP   

*AFM* Sorry I keep popping in and out over the last few weeks, loads been going on in my head due to the operation and results. Saw Gynae today and she has advised me to do IVF again, my tubes are too thin for a successful reversal. The hard part is convincing DH that whichever way we had gone ... IVF or reversal ... that we could have paid out and still got nothing at the end. For my sanity I need to have 1 more go at IVF, then if a BFN, move on and focus on the ones we already have. So time for me to have a major detox of my system before next month when I hope to have tx 2. Hope everyone has a great Bank Holiday Monday, we had our Bank Holiday last Wednesday. Loving the


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## Ronnie3007

Well that was easy, DH has agreed to the next Tx of IVF ... Roll on mid June


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## Moominmum

Sorry for my absence. I, as always, follow this thread but I have decided to try to stay away from FF for a little while.

Firstly - congrats *Cooljules*!!    How are you feeling? 

*Lesley*: so sorry to hear about your mum. But listen to the others. We 40+ do really know everything, don't we?! By knowing how the situation is, you can take actions. 

*Deb*: welcome back! Sounds like you had a fab relaxing holiday. And great to hear your positive spirit! 

*Fififi*: Your DD sounds lovely.  How are you? 

*Kirsty*: How are you? What/When is your next step, I forgot? 

*Ronnie*: Didn't take much to convince DH then?! Mid June is soon  

*Roxy*: Sounds like you had a good chat with Penny. I wonder if she knows how "famous" she is over here (on FF at least ). To be treated as an individual is really with the industry seems to be lacking. Many clinics seems to, regardless of what they say, apply a certain level of standard protocol and almost use the first Tx as a test to see if anything deviate from "normal" and then do some tests...

*Hopeful*: hope you are feeling a bit more upbeat now. 

*Choco*: Welcome to the wealth of knowledge, support and experience from the ladies in this thread. 

*Louise*: I think it sounds good to wait to August if you don't feel ready. It is such an emotional and physical process and you have to be ready for both. 

*Ella*: How are you? 

Sorry to everyone else that I have missed but big  to you too!

AFM. not much to report. And I don't know where I belong on FF anymore. I still cannot believe my luck, and I am so nervous and on constant knicker watch. But have told DH but as I hardly believe it myself I am not sure he does. Pollen is making me miserable - with DS I was told to not take any medicine just in case - so I feel pants when the weather is nice at the moment. Bring on the rain 

   to all

Moominmum


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## deblovescats

hi girls
lesley - i could have actually met you for a drink! you never know - one day? Hope you're ok.
GOod luck moomin - keep positive.
jules - hope it's all going well for you. 
Had a busy Bank Hol - felt quite good though - cleaned through the house and got some washing done! Now on count down, till appointment - 3 weeks on thursday, feeling quite good about it - think i'm probably going to go with Care - at least I'll see when I have my appointment. I found the specialist nurse in charge of egg donation really supportive - and spent time with me - about one hour, which is more than I had with the previous UK clinic! And this was a free consultation! 
Had a relaxing bath tonight - needed it! and had chance to really mull things over - I know i'm going to keep going with tx - i need to be able to say to myself that i gave it all i could! 
Tomorrow - got a stressful team meeting! there are a few issues to deal with - there are several members of the team causing hassles to everyone else, so i think it's going to be pretty draining as they never see that they're causing this.
my lovely fur babies are little darlings and keep me going - my Timmy is his usual cuddly self, and Daisy (the neglected, almost feral one) is doing really well - almost tame now! she's now coming for a fuss, which is some going for her! 
Good luck to all you guys! 
Deb


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## Moominmum

*Deb* Great to hear about the ED specialist nurse. In this world, where they charge you by the minute for even breathing, it is so nice to hear about an experience like yours. I think clinics would get more patients if they had more of that type of approach. It is not that they won't make the money back in the long run...


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## Sushi Lover

Afternoon ladies,

*Lesley*.... Ahhh, cute photo of Sonic! Did Mario venture onto the road then? Oh no.  Glad you are feeling more positive about your Mum's condition and thinking of ways to manage the situation. It definitely shouldn't be the end of the road for her... just finding different ways to cope with life and altering her schedule to suit the problem. Keeping away from anyone with a cold is definitely a good first step to take as is catching something as trivial as a common cold before it transposes into a more serious ailment. I've got all the info from Serum regarding the hidden C and 7-in-1 tests... the thought of wringing out a tampon into a pot is just too exciting for words  I just won't have time to get it all tested before my next IVF cycle though which is a bit of a pain....

*Roxy*.... haha, yeah maybe that was a bit bossy to put it in caps! Sorry about that. I hope you had some quality time on the sunbed sunning yourself? I did yesterday and it did me the world of good. Interesting what Penny said about DP's sperm affecting the chromosomal make-up of the embryo. Most clinics focus on the women, but what's to say the men could be having a detrimental effect?! Just becuase the egg was fertilised, doesn't mean the sperm are of 'sound' qaulity. That all sounds brilliant what she has suggested... very specific to your needs. Roll on June/July!

*Deb*... welcome back, we missed you! Capetown sounds amazing and you really do sound refreshed and recuperated. What a great option CARE is for you... no waiting list is amazing! I bet you are excited about the appt on the 30th. Can I ask... what is a septum in your uterus?

*Ronnie*... congrats on getting DH to agree to another round of IVF! Fab news... OE or DE ?

*Moonmin*.... having nothing to report is a good thing! You definitely belong here, we'd miss you if you disappeared and want to follow your progress. So please don't go! Rain is coming tonight so the pollen should die down quite a lot. I've read a few anithistamines are safe in pregnancy... the first generations one that make you drowsy (not ideal)...loratadine or chlorphenamine ... or something called Cetirizine. Go and see your GP if it gets bad again when the sun returns. You can't be feeling miserable all summer! I go for my endo scratch and antral follicle check on Friday... I'm just praying no cysts have appeared so I can start next week. Expecting AF at the weekend and will start my stims on day 2. E/C and E/T end of May is the plan.

Hello to everyone else 

xxx


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## hopeful68

i hope everyone had a good w/end. Doggie doing MUCH better - i think he put it on so wouldnt go away!! DH arrived home on friday from our holiday!! he had a few drinks and then a lid blew on his temper - he obviously had things bottled up and had too much time to think while alone in france - that made for a long night of talking and trying to rationalise things. fortunately i was sober so didnt get involved in the rant other than to try and calm things down!! hopefully that has cleared the air and allows him to move on - i think as it is my body and i know it is full of crap eggs i accepted it was over 6 months or more ago. we went on to have a lovely w/end in the sun - he got sunburnt as 'i nag about suncream' so he wont use it - but is there with the aftersun asking me to rub that in!!! real bummer to go back to work today in a building with no windows!! PMd my cycle buddy who i met on scan day - she had a C section last friday and has a boy!! - happy for her but rubs the timing in a bit. - possibly another trigger for DHs outburst on Friday!!

Anyhow, that was my w/end!!

So many of you seem to be getting some interesting answers and planning Treatments, i really hope the 2013 adds up to a good year and Moomin will be keeping things crossed for you too!!

take care ladies, signing off to cook dinner......


----------



## LellyLupin

Wow Ronnie I wish my DP would be so fast to agree to tx  

Having a bit of a struggle today,  AF due and I think thats skewing my reasoning (if I ever had any).  A couple of days ago I made my mind up to move on and even told DP, he then surprised me by saying lets have the hidden C test with Penny and then decide    I thought he would be relieved.;  Anyway bought my pot for the hidden C test and wavering over whether to have the 7 in 1 test too, does anyone know what that test is for?  Also does anyone know if the 2 pregnant ladies on the Serum thread who are over 44, used their own fresh eggs or frozen ones from when they were younger?  I can't seem to find them on the Serum thread.

Moomin don't you dare go anywhere,  you are our thread founder and you belong here with us.    Glad everything is tip top and you have told DH - exciting isn't it xx

Hopeful so pleased that doggie is doing better, I bet he does put it on for your attention sometimes.  I have seen my Suzy hobble across the carpet one minute, then after a proper fuss,  trot off with nothing wrong with her    She makes me smile every single day with some quirk or another.  Have you definitely made up your mind to stop tx?  Does DH want to carry on or was his outburst just pure frustration at the whole situation?    Right there with you on the suncream lark, DP just sits and burns and no amount of nagging does any good, and he only tans the front of himself as he says he doesn't get to see the back  

Hi Kirst,  no it was really weird, I got Mario when he was at deaths door after being out in the sun for a couple of days,  he was very emaciated and dehydrated as he had just woken up from hibernation. I didn't think he stood a chance,  but I had him for about 3 weeks and he was eating and drinking fine and scampering about like he was going to be OK.  Then when I went to set Sonic free he was dead in the cage,  really strange after he seemed to be doing so well.  I think Hedgies have a point of no return,  as one minute they can be chomping away and the next they are gone.  So far I have lost 3 out of 10 so I guess thats not too bad.  Anyway I have disinfected the hedgie house and repainted it for the Winter babies.  I can see me being one of those batty old dears with a house full of pets,  spending all my pension on food for animals  

Debs I would definitely meet you for a drink. let me know when you are next up this way ansd we will meet for a drink.  Glad you are so excited about your appointment and your fur babies are doing well. I have always wanted a cat, a black one with green eyes, well DP is always calling me a witch  How did your team meeting go?  We've just got rid of our office mischief maker so we are quite peaceful at work now, even one person can disrupt an entire team.  

Oops battery going will have to catch up more later - bye girls


----------



## fififi

As ever popping in when really should be on way to bed so no time to post but wanted to say to everyone & let you know I'm reading your posts and hoping to find time to write soon.

Work bit manic at moment and my head isn't functioning well so taking me ages to do things that should really only take half the time! Not sure what's wrong with me other than sense of general despair and sadness - seem to be fine with things one minute, almost ready to say let's stop & just return to living again, then the next I'm crying cos seen woman with baby in Tescos!!!! (Really wish my hormones were this productive towards TTC rather than creating the emotional nutcase I seem to have become!)

Lots I want to say to people so will be back and please don't think I don't care about the stresses lots of you are having right now. Huge hugs to all      

PS. Moom - really pleased everything going well with you & agree with Lesley in that you MUST stay & pop by with updates. Your success is our hope & if we're just left with the negative feelings and no evidence of dream actually happening then we'll all go mad!!

PPS. Been debating about hidden c test for while & since lots of you are going for it think I should too ... just don't let DH know (!!!) How is best to go about doing it. Be interested in seeing if others comment on the 7 in 1 test ... as guess I'll end up wondering whether that should be done too. Is it much more?

PPPS. Sent off Donor Egg forms today so by end of week will be on waiting list. Not sure how long it'll be as my CMV came back as negative so been told that's harder to match donor with, but at least I'll have more time to save up or get my natural miracle like Moom!!! (Fingers & toes crossed!!!    )


----------



## deblovescats

hi guys
hope you've had a good day! Team meeting was ok - lots of tensions bubbling beneath the surface. However, team leader took on board concerns and she is going to raise them with the offenders in a separate, smaller meeting. The guys I'm based with are all great - its' the wider team who cause the problems so thankfully don't see them as much. To move things along, team leader brought in a banana and carrot cake she'd made - so that eased the atmosphere! 
lesley - will def arrange to meet for a drink when i'm up your way! think it's amazing the work you're doing with the hedgehogs. I think I could be quite a batty old lady as well - rescuing cats needing homes! I'm thinking of getting a 3rd cat as Timmy needs a friend who'd play with him! He used to have a friend next door, a big ginger male cat who took a fancy to him and used to come into the house and play with Timmy. However, the neighbours moved and Timmy still goes looking for him! Daisy now tolerates him but she doesn't want to be with him! 
moomin- hope things are going good.
jules - hope you're progressing well.
I'm feeling quite positive about my appointment - just contacted my GPs to see if they'll pay for blood tests needed as suggested by CARE. As I'm paying for my own treatment, I think the least they can do is pay for the tests, but I know what NHS is like. I feel sometimes we're all paying our taxes and it's funding other people! 
Does anyone else watch Holby City? Just a little rant - one of the characters, a hard faced consultant - not a very likeable character, found out she's got endometriosis. I thought 'oh, great, its good to see fertility problems featured and even though she isn't maternal, doesn't want kids, it highlights the problems. However, several episodes later, despite her not agreeing to have any treatment, the gynaecologist told her yesterday that she's pregnant!!!! I think it would be much more realistic and helpful if they showed what treatment the character was having and featured her struggles to get pregnant! In soapland, everything's so much easier! 
kirsty - a septum is a piece of tissue juts into the uterus, causing a more heart shaped uterus. I'm not convinced I have got one as when I had a scan at my previous UK clinic they never mentioned this, they said I had a retroverted uterus (which means it leans backwards rather than forwards as in the majority of cases). My GP said that looking at the scan, it doesn't look as if it is, but obviously I'm going to get this checked out at my appt on 30th. The GP said if this is the case, it shouldn't impede on conception or pregnancy, but obviously the clinic will know more about this.
Fingers crossed girls that the rest of the year is our year!
Deb


----------



## Ronnie3007

*Moominmum* Sorry I have looked at your signature but from what you are saying did you get a BFP? If so ...    Also, I suffer from hayfever so falling pg in the summer is not such a great experience due to no meds being allowed x

*Debs* All sounds really positive for you on the forthcoming tx, its a great relief to have lovely clinic staff who actually care and don't see you as a number. Work sounds a tad stressful tho, I have worked in offices and find that you get aggro like that everywhere. Always someone wanting to *****. Hope you can get it sorted without getting stressed out yourself. 

*Kirsty* Yes was stunned at how quickly he did agree. He did stress to me tho that he was not happy about doing IVF again after how emotionally draining it was for both of us the last time. He has a very negative outlook on it, saying it's not going to work and we might aswell just throw the money down the drain. I have asked him to try and be a bit more supportive thro this next tx and to chill about it. At the moment it is going to be OE, not sure whether the clinic offers DE I have to ask. Everything crossed for you to be able to start your next tx this month  

*Hopeful* Sounds like your DH needed the blowout. We had a slight one yesterday when my DH suggested we sell my treasured car to fund the IVF and get a cheaper car with the left over monies ........... eeeeeeeeermmmmmmmm NO!!!!! It was a bit of a battle but I won in the end. These men do like to push it but we always win. Glad you managed to calm him down. He sounds like he needs some TLC. Have u not considered DE, as you say your eggs are no good? xx 

*Lesley* I know I was shocked lol. You are having lots of fun with your fur babies, we have a Dalmation and 2 rabbits, Olly has just been castrated so is sulking bless him. I love animals and would have a whole zoo if i could xx

*fififi* I am finding it hard here, everywhere you go there are buggies and bumps, so depressing. Thinking that should have been me with a growing bump now. We have to try and see beyond them and have the positive attitude that it is not over yet. Let's hope you don't have to wait long for your DE xx 

*AFM* More pep talks with DH last night. I had not helped the cause by slating the whole process after it failed in Feb, so it was not surprising that DH was against us doing it again. I have explained to him now that I had to lash out at someone and the Clinic were the ones to get it. He is still a lil concerned but has a clearer head now. I have made the decision that if this one does not work that is the end for us and we will be focusing on the ones we are lucky to have. DH does not believe me lol but I am 110% sure. I am currently trying to train in the dog grooming world but sorting out funding is a nightmare here. I have met someone who owns her own salon but cannot afford to employ me yet, so I am going in when I can and learning thro watching and helping her FREE OF CHARGE. Yesterday we had a labradoodle in which should only take 2 hours ........ 5 hours later he was finished. He was so badly matted it was awful. He was great on the table tho and did not moan once . Hope you all have a good day xx


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## bernie1971

Hi guys, have been lurking but haven't written anything in a while. Reading this thread has been a great comfort though.

AFM,  OTD today. That is, I went to the clinic and had blood drawn and now I have to wait for the phone call with the result... they told me minimum three hours, which now means 2 hours and 15 minutes of "peace" and then the freakout begins. Ah, joy. 
So I try to think of the positives of a BFN - I can exercise again and lose the 5+ pounds I seem to have gained with 2 treatments pretty much back to back... getting married in June so being fit then is a nice thought. I can enjoy life again. I can have WINE and don't have to think of stupid excuses every time I go out as to why I am not drinking. I can go rockclimbing and kitesurfing without needing to worry about the possible effects on embryo implantation and the like.... We can plan our honeymoon and can pretty much do anything we fancy (rather than opt for a very chilled holiday if I am pregnant). And so on... 
However, from past experiences I know that no amount of "preparation for the worst" can ever really prepare you. 
Will keep everyone updated... Please cross your fingers for me xxx

B-1971


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## Ronnie3007

Have everything crossed for you Bernie


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## Coolish

Good luck today *Bernie*! xx

*Moominmum *- hope you're doing OK and not feeling any of the more ill affects of pregnancy!

I had the 7-in-1 test and also tested positive for ureaplasma - which can have affects on sperm I believe, so could affect DHs. I can't remember the full tests, but it test for bacterial load as well as hidden c. It's 170 euros as oppose to 100 euros for just the hidden c. The details may be on the website I posted a couple of days ago

Hi to everyone else.


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## MJ1

Hi Ladies,

Well it has been a while. I have been reading all your posts and keeping up with all the news. 
*Bernie*, good luck for today. 
*Kirsty,* glad to see that you are giving it another go this month. 
*Mooms* wooooo  great news hun

*Lesley*, sorry to hear the news about your Mum, keep your chin up 
Hi to everyone else too.

*AFM*, Well had my bloods etc taken on 16/4. Didn't hear anything so emailed the Lister yesterday, only to receive an email response saying that my TSH level is high at 3.26 and I need to get re-tested before they will match me! not happy that I didn't know anything about this and it took me to email them as a chaser to find out. 
Spoke to my consultant and he told me not to worry and it can be controlled by drugs once we get matched. So we are number 46 and apparently when you get to number 40 you are on the home straight. 
Going to our Wedding venue next week to meet with the co-ordinator to finalise costs etc. Not confirming a date until next year due to the uncertainty of DE. 
Has anyone else had a problem with Thyroid Antibodies in the past? my count was 2.09 two years ago so it is a fairly recent thing as we have not cycled for a year and half. I have read that it can hinder pregnancy 
MJ1 xxxx


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## Sushi Lover

*Hopeful*..... glad the cheeky pooch is better. Oh dear, DP sounded like he had been bottling things up for a while and just exploded in frustration. Glad you cleared the air and had some quality time in the sun. Why are men so bloody weird about putting sunscreen on?! Is it too girlie or something? A sign of masculinity if you don't need any?! Ridiculous. I hope the news from your old cycle buddy didn't hurt too much. It's so tough to hear news like that.

*Lesley*.... I've got the info from Serum regarding the 7-in-1 test.....it's basically just an additional infection screening test. I suppose any old infection can affect the lining of the womb and cause potential problems when TTC? The thing is, it's another €170 on top of the €100 hidden C test....

_Locus Medicus ('hidden Chlamydia') test - €100:
We began testing for Chlamydia using a novel test on menstrual fluid (the blood, mucus and tissue that is shed during a period) at Locus Medicus lab in Athens. This test is sometimes referred to as the 'hidden chlamydia' test because we find it is more sensitive than other tests for Chlamydia.

Life Code "7-in-1" test - €170:
We now run a panel of tests run by Life Code lab in Athens, which comprises:
•	a test of total bacterial load, which measures the level of 'good bugs' (lactobacillae) - a reduced population tends to indicate an abnormal vaginal environment caused by another, more hostile, bacteria, such as E-coli, Proteus etc.;
•	Ureaplasmas;_
•	_2 species of Mycoplasmas - Mycoplasma Genitalium and Mycoplasma Hominis;
•	2 other Bacterial Vaginosis species - Gardnerella Vaginalis and Atopobium Vaginae).
•	an 'ordinary' test for Chlamydia Trachomatis (not the especially sensitive test run by LM)_

Maybe Jules knows about the 2 pregnant ladies on the Serum thread? Afraid I haven't been on that one at all. Oh poor Mario, fancy you nursing him back to health and then he just keeled over one day?

*Fififi*..... Great news about sending your DE forms off! What is CMV? And why is it harder to match you if you're negative?!

*Debs*....oh right, interesting about the heart-shaped uterus. Can this make it harder to conceive then? Mine leans backwards as well, but I've been told it's fairly common and nothing to worry about.

*Ronnie*....thanks for the hugs and prayers! Yes, I'm really geared myself up for it mentally so I'll be so disappointed if there is a cyst and I can't start. Might be worth asking clinic about DE... it really does increase the chances of conception dramatically. Maybe DH will be more positive if you go down this route?

*Bernie*.... I'm praying really hard for you lovie  You've thought of some fab positives, but as we all know nothing can compensate for a BFN. Your wedding in June must be an exciting time though? How wonderful.

*CoolJules*... hiya, how are you feeling? Is it all a bit surreal still?

*MJ*....so they've only just dropped this bombshell about thyroid levels and not matching you? That is really bad! Ooooh, only 6 people in front of you now. How exciting. Afraid I don't have any useful snippets of info about Thyroid antibodies hun, but I'm sure one of the other girls does.

Hello to all you other lovely ladies.... *Roxy, Moomin, Ella, Choco, Louise, Jane, Refresh.*

xxx


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## LellyLupin

Thanks for the info on the 7 in 1 test Kirsty and Jules, I guess its probably better to get it all tested Fifi - 'in for a Penny in for a pound' Get it?  A serum joke!  Oh well I won't give up the day job  

Bernie I have everything crossed and hope against hope you got a BFP xxxx

MJ good job you rang them but not very professional of them to leave it so late to say you require another test - is that more money too?  GHreat that its all getting closer though xx

Ronnie I see Olly in your profile - v cute.  Good luck with the dog grooming,  wonder if you could do anything with my little pooch she looks like a toilet brush.  Actually shes the pot model of the dog on the Go compare advert - the one in the fake dog suit    Hope your next TX is successful so you can add to your brood, I always pictured myself with a big family - its funny how life can turn out isn't it xx

Debs I don't watch Holby City,  but I am right there with you on the unrealistic portrayal of infertility, they make everything into an easy happy ending,  not true to life.  The other thing that winds me up is the amount of 'stars' who pop out babies in their forties,  and kid us all that they are not DE babies.  I think the publicity around them leads people to believe that its easy to conceive very late in life, after all they see the stars do it every day.  It really bothers me when people say well look at Halle Berry shes pregnant and shes 43, it can't be that hard GRRRRR!  AND the amount of people who say 'oh we'll just have DHs vasectomy reversed', it should be publicised that reversals can lead to antibodies in 70% of cases.  If I had had that information maybe we wouldn't have found ourselves in the situation we are in.  I find it hard not to warn people putting off having children not to leave it too late.  OMG rant over!!!  Oh hang on ......AND I am dreading the babywatch thats now going on for Kate and Wills, please give us poor people a break!!  Can you tell its nearly AF time    Don't forget to post a picture of your new cat when you get him/her, are you going to get a rescue cat?  I nearly cracked and got SD a guinea pig at the weekend, I feel a bit lost now Sonic has gone, I have never missed a hedgie before I am usually relieved to be off 'nurse' duty, nut I actually do miss her and have been wondering where she is and if she is ok.  
  

Feefs hope you are feeling a bit happier today, great news that you are soon to be on the waiting list  .  I too am curious about CMV what is it?  What does it mean?  I think you may be mourning your OE whatmighthave been baby, seriously I do, I think its a loss that you have to grieve for before you can fully get your head around DE.      

Love to everyone else xxxx


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## Ronnie3007

*Kirsty* You are very welcome  I will ask about DE but I cannot find it on their website xx

*Lesley* Do you mean the Dalmation? That is Pongo  Olly is my rabbit xx Yes I never imagined I would have 4 now plus wanting to add another to that list. Life hey lol xx

*Bernie* I am hoping no news is good news with you. Please let us know how you are  

*AFM* I have this evening emailed our clinic requesting an appointment next month. Feeling excited at the forthcoming tx now. It is a Bank Holiday here tomorrow so I was hoping to have a BBQ but looking at the weather ... maybe not!!  xx


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## bernie1971

What else is new. BFN. Will try to write something more positive tomorrow!


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## deblovescats

hi girls
lesley - the cmv test evidently identifies if you've had a flu like illness sometime in your life - most people have. Evidently research has shown that if you are cmv negative you can still have a cmv postiive egg donor as it has no effect on the embryo, but if you are doing donor sperm, clinics don't recommend that you have a cmv positive donor as this can cause potential problems to an embryo - such as deafness, learning difficulties as they grow. If you decide to do so, you have to sign a disclaimer. Some clinics don't test for it, some do. Care do.
Good news today was that my GP rang me to say i can have the blood tests done on the nhs and she's done the form for me to pick up. She's been very supportive - thats a relief as my previous GP was very supportive but at the practice they all retired last year, and we have new GPs and i wasn't sure how they would take news of my tx. It's been good so far! Fingers crossed. So I just have to go and pick up the form and arrange an appointment and it's all systems go for 30th! Yes - i'll get a rescue cat, i dont believe in paying out money to breeders when there are so many lovely animals wanting homes! 
hope you're doing ok jules
great kirsty that you're going for it.
mj - good that you've got the excitement of the wedding to look forward to! 
Deb


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## Sushi Lover

*Bernie*.... I'm so, so sorry hun. Sending you a massive hug. I feel your pain. This process can be so heartbreaking.

I hope you can focus on some of the positives you mentioned yesterday.... but don't be too hard on yourself. Give yourself that grieving time first. It's so important.

Just think what an amazing wedding day and honeymoon you are going to have. I'm so jealous 

Take care.


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## LellyLupin

Oh Bernie I am so sorry honey    Come and chat when you feel up to it, I  know you will feel terrible at the moment, we are all here for you when you are ready xx

Wow Debs you learn something new every day, I had never heard of CMV, this whole process is so complicated. You have such a good GP, I could get nothing out of mine,  even though they didn't refer me to the infertility clinic till I was 40 as they had that I was pregnant on my records.  And no I have never been pregnent - ever.    I tried to get them to pay for my tx but they wouldn't.  Good for you getting a rescue cat I wish more people would rescue animals,  there are far too many in need and I don't like it that people are breeding so many just for cash.  

Ronnie I have never heard of a rabbit being fixed    Is it because he is aggressive?  Pongo is a fab name I hope you don't end up with a 101 of them    Where are you at to be having a bank holiday, are you not in England?

AFM AF is here, I hate her   I have a banging headache and heartache that my stupid body is so regular and still can't get pregnant!

Hope everyone else is Ok.


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## artist_mum

*bernie* So very sorry to read your news, it's so hard to bear. sending you a . Please don't forget that you are still young (compared to the many, many over 40s on here) and that when you are ready, there are options. Thinking of you x

*lesley* i liked the Penny joke, made me laugh . If you have AF are you doing the Serum tests (hidden C etc)? The one time I want my AF to come so I can do the tests... no sign! Typical isn't it?!

like *fifi* i have come on here late and need to get off to bed as life is overly busy right now (combination of builders in, final few weeks of my degree, skids here every other weekend + once a week & we are changing clinics to Serum) but i am reading all your stuff on here about animals and all (!) so hi to everyone - i will post again soon.

Roxy xx


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## LellyLupin

I am Roxy, I have my little vial ready and tomorrow going to research the best way to post it.  Still don't know why I am having the tests as DP hasn't agreed to anymore tx, but he was the one who wanted to get them done.   He is in a real funny mood lately.    Glad to hear you have decided to go to Serum, are you doing DE or OE? xx


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## bernie1971

Hi all
feeling numb, mainly. Will take a break now and then reconsider my options. In all likelihood I will try for another FET here in Spain, of 2 embies this time rather than just one, and possibly start investigating Serum at the same time for one last fresh DE cycle... since it seems that they are good at difficult cases...! 
Does anyone know whether a hysto would show scarring in the uterus?

Cheers to all, personals to follow as soon as I've recovered a bit...

xx

B-1971


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## Coolish

*Lesley* - I popped mine in a padded envelope and posted it as a small packet to Greece. Much, much cheaoer than signed for or courier and gets there within the week. You have to sign a declaration to say what's in it and just put something bland, like sample, keyring and the Post Office won't question it. I run an online business and as long as you look like you know what you're doing, they'll never question you.

*Bernie* - so sorry to hear about your test results  Taking a bit of time out sounds like a good idea. RE hysto, I had a 'greek' hysto in Athens and you could see the dead tissue from my infection - you actually get a DVD to go through with Penny. They basically 'scrape' it out and you take oestrogen and ABs for about 10 days to prevent further scarring.


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## MJ1

Bernie, thinking of you xxxx


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## fififi

Bernie     Thinking of you
Take time to be sad and don't rush into next steps. Plans for future are good but equally right now you've been dealt a crap card in life so need to allow yourself to feel angry & hurt by what's happened.


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## deblovescats

hi girls
sorry bernie - we're all here for you.
AFM - had a rubbish day (not tx though) - we are supposed to be having new desks delivered at work yesterday - as ours have been condemned! (yes, evidently, desks can be condemned!!!) and they never turned up!!! Despite our admin guy constantly ringing today, they never answered and they still haven't turned up! So we're sitting in the midst of all the junk we had to clear and I don't havea desk for Mon as colleagues in the next office snaffled mine to put their computer on as they had an even more decrepit desk!! What a saga! 
Makes fertility treatment even seem sane! 
Just on countdown now for my appointment - feeling quite positive. Just need to sort out my blood tests - GP said she has done a form for me to pick up and take to path lab at hospital so i can have them done before my appt, but the receptionist yesterday couldn't find the form (Grrrr!) and the GP won't be in until tuesday. Just want to get things moving now
My poor little cat Timmy had a nasty shock - he was asleep in an armchair yesterday teatime, and suddenly he jumped up, his thin tail very fat and fluffy - and leapt over a little table and sent crockery flying (thankfully nothing was broken)! I had to pick him and cuddle him until he had calmed down. Poor darling
Deb


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## LellyLupin

Big hug to you Bernie, well done for finding the strength to be back so soon and with plans too - you go girl xx

Jules you read my mind   I came on here to ask what lie do I put for the post office when I send my sample?  If I ever manage to get one that is, I am finding it really difficult to collect    Not quite sure how much to get,  and do they want just blood or the other yukky bits too (sorry for TMI)  

Debs was Timmy having a nightmare or something?  Poor little thing he must have been freaked to have sent thing flying  .  Suzy has been full of bounce today, she was springing round like Pepe le Peu on the field much to the other dog walkers amusement, I love it when shes like that. I forgot to put her Doggles on so she was having a bit of trouble in the sun but apart from that shes on top form.    What do you do for a living?  Sounds like pandemonium having to sit in all the junk and work.  

Love to everyone else xx


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## Coolish

*Lesley* - I'm guessing I had about 1/2 teaspoon? It was blood and 'bits'. I was worried whether it wa enough, but apparently it was! You have to put the water with it so it should be OK. I just used contact lens solution but a lot of ladies have used cooled down bolied water. Just don't label it with what's actually in there. Something really simple and cheap (worth less than £20).

Hope everyone has a good weekend!


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## LellyLupin

All done and sent Jules  , I said it was a keyring and off it went.  A messy business but  I had contact lens solution to hand,  so I got enough to make the solution red.  How are you feeling today?  Any symptoms, i cvan't see your history, is this the first time you have been pregnant?  On that note Moomin how are you getting on?

I think DP may be changing his mind on things,  as I asked again last night about sending the samples and he told me to go ahead.   that he does want to go ahead and try again, if it was up to me I would try again, and maybe again after that if I had the pennies.

Have a great (if rainy) weekend girls xx


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## Coolish

Cool, glad it went off OK. It should get there within the week. Maria on reception dropped me an email to let me know it had arrived safely. I'm sure I got the results about 3 days later.

First time preggers after 8+ years TTC, 1 OE IUI (0-5% success rate given), 4 previous DE IVF including 2 chemicals. I'm putting it all down to Serum too! Only symptoms I've had are all the none too nice ones  Nosebleeds, tiredness, nausea, huge (.)(.). Also had a scary episode of bleedng last weekend so had to stop the baby asprin and got booked into EPAU and managed to get an early scan done. Actually saw a little pulsing sac... Back again at the end of this week for another check.


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## artist_mum

*lesley* great to see you have got your sample off to Serum. yes we are DE all the way! Frustrated that I don't have a bleed yet (due to m/c in April). Just waiting now so we can get on. Glad to hear that your DP is encouraging you with this.. that sounds really hopeful.

happy weekend everyone else
Roxy xx


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## Moominmum

Hi All,

Firstly *Bernie*: so sorry to hear your news.   I found my one and only so so hard to deal with. The treatment, the disapointment, afterwards. Do take your time and heal your wounds. 

*Lesley*, *Jules* etc: love reading about your "sample mission" - sounds like a secret mission!

AFM shortly, went for a scan yday and well, not sure what to say. Everything was way smaller than it was supposed to be (we are talking 1 week+ which is lots this early) but there was a heartbeat. So I wonder if this is a mc coming AGAIN and I am walking around with pads close to me just in case. If it is a mc I am defo over and out.

This is the difference, in my experience, between NHS and private. NHS: free but you get your 10 minutes and it is a matter of fact what they see. Private: £££ but they are business people and will try to make anything positive for you like them. But I am lucky as I have not had any problems for me or DH to have blood tests, SA etc via our GP and I am booked in for another scan in 2 weeks. The only thing is that I am not sure what to expect. Oh and I have been googling lots of course which is a no-no. but...

Sorry for the me post. This is my lifeline at the moment and I am looking forward to reading about many more BFPs to come in 2013!


----------



## hopeful68

not going to say much tonight,
Bernie: so sorry to hear your news. takes for even to get over, so take the time out to get your head around it and make time for you and DP/DH to relax and try and enjoy each other's company. - i didnt do that and i think that is what is the issue at the moment with DH!

Moomin.... it aint over until its over. stay positive, it was there, beating away, small - could be a good thing in 8 months!!!!

love to you all....


----------



## LellyLupin

Wow Jules I bet that was emotional seeing your little one  - penny has certainly worked her magic for you.  I am pinning my last hope on her, still struggling with OE or DE though.  Awful symptoms for you but fantastic to feel them for the first time and know thats your baby making you feel poorly xx

Strange how thoughtless words affect me at the moment,  always from people who already have kids.  The MIL situation is still bothering me too, how heartless she is to take this attitude - as if we haven't been through enough already.  

Moomin don't worry about having a me post, whats happening is so important.  Excrutiating that you have to wait for another two weeks, hopefully the baby will have caught up a bit by then.  Not having ever got to that stage I am unsure of what it all means,  and if babies do develop at different rates.  Keeping everything crossed for you and   everything is ok, a heartbeat must surely be a very good sign xxx


----------



## LellyLupin

Ooo Rox sorry I signed off before I said hello to you.  How many DEs are you going to have put back in - have you thought about it?  xx


----------



## Coolish

Moomin - try not to worry that things are a little smaller than they expected. It could have been a later than you expected implantation. It's so hard to know at this stage. I agree with your NHS vs private comment. Our last clinic in Spain was so 'super positive' all the time but at the NHS this week when I went to emergency and EPAU, they were lovely and cared but they were very straightforward about things. In a way it was slightly refreshing not to have things sugar-coated.


----------



## fififi

Jules - glad your blip bleed all turned out ok and hope you are not struggling too much with pg symptoms as pretty scary when you're already nervous     

Moom - so feel for you. Do remember that as this was natural BFP a week out is quite normal. I'd been looking through my medical notes regarding my pg back in 2007 (trying to find evidence of blood group for clinic to avoid paying for private test) & my first scan was 8 days out at 6.5 weeks, but by 8 weeks just 4 days and by 12 we were given the due date I'd originally calculated.
Try to stay positive ... no negative vibes to that tum ... it's normal to be scared having had MC before but you've as much chance ( if not more) that all will be well


----------



## fififi

Hi to rest of you - lots to do tonight so can't write properly still - glad people are generally in good spirits. Hope to catch up next week


----------



## bernie1971

cooljules - thanks, that helps RE hysto. Will bring it up at follow-up at my clinic here in Spain next week, let's see what they say. 

Moomin- thinking of you and your scans!!

I am trying to enjoy the so-called freedom. It could be worse I suppose; I just feel like a failure. Very glad I have told no one about the treatment so at least now I don't have to give any explanations! 

Just read an article on some Italian paper regarding the huge numbers of women in Italy who choose not to have kids or to have them very late in life (whilst aware of the risks) and I wonder, where exactly are these people? Can it really be that different elsewhere, like here in Spain, where I know a fair amount of women and only  one - one - I know has willingly chosen to forego motherhood

Anyway. Just venting. Thanks for listening!


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## deblovescats

hi guys
hope everything's ok moomin and jules!
Yes lesley - Timmy was fast asleep in his chair so I think he had a nightmare. There's a pretty scary cat living in the street - very big boy, with short legs and fat tail, he's quite aggressive to other cats, so maybe Timmy thought he was being chased by him! He's much calmer today.
Workwise, I work in a health visiting team, so partly office based, other times out at clinics and home visits. I enjoy my job, but find it hard sometimes, being surrounded by other people's babies! I go and give parenting support etc, support new mums, so it can be really hard. I keep trying to hold on and hope that one day it will be me (and all of us on the thread!) Sometimes, I think some parents don't deserve to have their chilldren, when you see the conditions they're living in, and how they're treated, especailly the ones on child protection! Tomorrow - lets hope we can chase up these missing desks! We wondered if they'd be hijacked on the estate where I'm based - it has its tough areas! lol
I'm on countdown now, got to go to my GP surgery and try and track down the blood test request form! 
Deb


----------



## julesbfd

Evening ladies

I haven't posted for some time but do read every day.  I'm looking for people's thoughts/ideas as my head is a little battered at the moment.

I am 41, have had three tx with ICSI in the past 12 months, all bfn, although lots of eggs and have got to blast each time.  Before my first tx I had a hystroscopy to remove a small fibroid.  I have no tubes.

From my last tx, I have some frosties which they froze at day 3 and the plan is to defrost them all at the same time.

I went into hospital on Friday to have what is the same fibroid removed under a hystroscopy ready to do my fet.  The consultant came later to say they did not end up doing anything, saying that it is deeper than she thought, the surface is around 1 1/2 cm but they dont know how deep.  She said I would need to have a myomectomy (or whatever its called).  Now having read up on that, I see it is quite a big op to recover from.  By the time I have to go and see her in clinic and then go on the waiting list and have the op, alot of time will have gone by which I don't have at my age.

I have lots of thoughts in my head:
1.  Wait and have the op, recover then have the fet and if that doesnt work, a final fresh cycle
2. She said they could try and put my eggs back on the right side (away from the fibroid) and hope it doesn't move to the left, have my fet so at least I am doing something and then if its a bfn ], have the op and a fresh go
3. Do a fresh cycle whilst still 41 and freeze them all but then that makes me think they arent as good when defrosted.

As you can see, I am a little confused at the mo and would welcome your thoughts

Thanks
Jules xxx


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## Cornishtwinkle

Hi Jules - I empathise with the ticking clock, but everything I've read indicates that FET actually gets better results in the over 40s than the fresh. Which clinic are you at? I would check that they are not super fussy about the grading for freezing. Mine are and whilst I had 24 eggs at day 3 and "a large number" at day 5 ( they wouldn't be specific!) they only froze 4 and put 2 back in. It is also possible to unfreeze eggs one at a time if they are 5 day blasts so I would look at that option too - although they can refreeze eggs if you don't put them back. What's your Amh and how many eggs did you get last cycle. There are a lot of scare stories out there about chronological age and fertility dropping massively, but I think it's easy to forget it statistics based on averages and you may not be that average. In your boat, I'd be tempted to have another fresh cycle, freeze and then have op but if the recovery time for the op is 2-4 months then maybe you don't need to put yourself through another fresh cycle? Good luck with your decision x


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## Sushi Lover

Afternoon girls,

*Bernie*... how are you feeling after the weekend? Still a bit numb? Yes, the hysto would show any scarring.. although I believe, from what Jules says, that the Greek version is more in depth than one in the UK.

*CoolJules*... thanks for the tip re what to put on the declaration. I'm going to do my sample for Serum this month too. Ahh, lovely you saw the sac and it looked fine. Are nosebleeds something you normally suffer with? I've never heard of that symptom before. Is the aspirin thinning your blood too much? DP/DH must be happy with the massive (.)(.) !! haha.

*Deb*.... goodness, all sounds a bit hectic at your work place! That's typical re the receptionist not being about to find the form. They are useless a lot of them! Cats are funny creatures when they dream and go a bit schizo !! When if your appt?

*Lesley*.... glad you did your sample and sent it to Serum... bits and all?! The things us girls have to do eh? Glad DP might just be coming round to the idea. I mean, he wouldn't have told you to go ahead with sending the parcel off if he wasn't contemplating having another go right? 

*Roxy*.... Glad you sounding brighter hun. Have you finished your exams/dissertation now?

*Moomin*.... sorry to hear about the worry with your scan. I don't have any advice to give of a personal nature, but what the other ladies have said is reassuring.

*Hopeful*.... Hope you are ok?

*Fifi*..... hello, what your news? Anything to report? You sound so busy at the moment.

*Julesbfd*.... hiya, you sound in a real quandary... why does all this have to be so difficult?! You are still only young at 41 so try not to panic too much about losing too much time. Do you know how long the waiting list is for the op? I think that the fibroid there will make implantation a tricky concept and even if they try and put them in the right side away from it, the embryos will still 'float around' for a few days before settling. So there really is no way specifically keeping it away from the left side. I would have the op as soon as possible (can you afford private op with no waiting list?)... then recover, have the FET and if that doesn't work a final fresh cycle. Perhaps DE after that? Finances permitting.

*Cornish*... haven't seen you on here for a while, how are you feeling now? I've heard that as well with FET getting better results... I think it's because the body is rested. My clinic are really fussy about what to freeze too. I had lots of eggs last time and blastocysts, but they said NONE were good enough for freezing. And, in fact, the quality would be better to have a fresh cycle in 3mths than to spend money on freezing slightly less quality ones as they may not survive the thaw process. So, whilst the results are good for FET... you have to produce bloody brilliant blasts to get to the freezing in the first place! So it's a bit misleading... if they are of excellent quality to start with they will have a good result fresh or frozen you would think? There is definitely something to be said for resting the body before the embryos go back in though... this does seem to be a big positive. How are you getting on with the DuoFertility thing?

*AFM*... endo scratch all done (I nearly hit the ceiling!!... Louise.. maybe my pain threshold is lower than yours? ) My cervix wouldn't stay still (slippy?) to put the catheter in, so he had to grip it with some prehistoric looking implement (blunt ended pilers!) That was v. painful. Anyway, the scratching bit was uncomfortable, but all that "it's only 10 seconds" lark is ridiculous... he counted "1 (massive pause), 2 (another massive pause)... you get the idea. Nearly broke the nurse's hand! Good news is I have no cysts ... 9 follis on right and 8 on the left.. waiting for AF now


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## MJ1

sounds painful *Kirsty*... I am due to have one of those when I go for DE.

SIL gave birth on Friday to beautiful baby girl - Holly. Luckily she lives in the US so I don't have to do the visiting thing. So off the back of that had a very sorry for myself weekend and due to go to a Christening on Sunday and AF due too - happy days!. Need to get on with the Wedding plans for next year, something I CAN control!
Love to all
MJ1 xxxxx


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## Sushi Lover

*MJ*... pretty sure I'm an exception as have read lots of reports on here from other girls who said it's similar to having a smear test. Just think because of my 'incredibly disappearing cervix' ...it was more difficult and painful to insert the catheter. Don't let me put you off!! A few deep breaths and it was all over... worth it in the long run I'm sure.

Ahh, that's nice about your new baby niece.. even nicer you don't have to do the whole visiting thing! It's tough when we are put through any baby news or events... especially if we have PMT to go with it. You'll plaster on the grin and get through Sunday as we've all done over the years. Thinking of you.

Happier topic... your wedding, wow! How exciting. Have you got a venue yet?

xx


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## Ronnie3007

*Jules* Hi you are not passed it at 41!  Sounds like you have some thinking to do 

*Kirsty* The Scratch sounded painful, what is it and why did you have it done? Excellent news on all your follies tho  

*MJ* Planning your wedding will certainly take your mind off of babies, very exciting time for you 

*AFM* Clinic appt booked for 10th June, we also have got the TOP man this time so am feeling quite positive about this tx. So am now looking forward to finding out how they are going to deal with this one, whether i will be on higher doses of the stimms after only managing 2 follies in Feb. Have started detoxing my body, no wine during the week. The extra stone i need to lose will hopefully start coming off aswell, in time for my tx to start mid June.


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## Cornishtwinkle

Hi Kirsty - sorry i don't post much - I struggle to retain any info these days so actually find the boards / people hard to keep track of. I feel I need to start an index box so I can write everyone's updates in there and refer to them before I post! I've only just started the duo fertility as I had to wait until my post ERPC af. It all seems pretty straightforward and will certainly help with my down time around fet. The clinic feedback indicated that my high hormone levels may have been a factor in my failed pregnancy last time so am heading for natural fet, if poss. Your endo sounds awful - I've never had one so don't really know its purpose but presumably all part of the mix to maximise chances. 

Mj - enjoy planning your wedding and hope things go ok on Sunday. It's a strain but something we have to go through to ensure we're not punishing our friends and family for our circumstances over which they have no control. 

Ronnie - strongly recommend detox. I feel so much better since I started my detox regime. 4 weeks in now! Lost 9 pounds already.


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## MJ1

Thanks Ronnie. 
Yes Kirsty, venue 99% there. Meeting the organiser on Saturday to discuss menus, numbers etc 
XX


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## Mish3434

New home this way.................................http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=306483.0

Shelley x


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